Anti-Abortion Lawyer Plans to Argue Justifiable Homicide

US News • Views: 7,423

Suspected murderer Scott Roeder is apparently now enlisting the aid of a fanatical anti-abortion lawyer who plans to argue that it’s OK to gun down doctors like George Tiller: Justifiable homicide defense eyed in Roeder’s case.

Attorney Michael Hirsh is known for trying to use this same insane strategy in the case of double murderer Paul Hill. Does he care that he may be inciting more violence? In his own words:

“It has been open season on unborn children for over 30 years. I think on abortionists there will be a bag limit.”

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513 comments
1 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:52:12pm

This is why I refuse to be a defense lawyer when I graduate

2 Cathypop  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:52:37pm

Oh good God how stupid are these idiots?

3 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:54:16pm

A bag limit?

4 The Shadow Do  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:54:17pm

re: #2 Cathypop

Oh good God how stupid are these idiots?

zealots

5 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:54:23pm

re: #1 Ron Bacardi

This is why I refuse to be a defense lawyer when I graduate

Everyone is entitled to a defense.

The article says, however, that Hirsh hasn't yet agreed to be retained.

Hirsh confirmed he has spoken once to Roeder in recent weeks about representing him, but he has not yet been retained. Hirsh said he had not researched the facts of the case or Kansas law enough to know whether the justifiable homicide defense could be used but said a jury should be allowed to decide if it is applicable.

6 Erik The Red  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:55:33pm

I am so glad I have not gone to bed yet. Meltdown in 5,4,3,2...

7 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:56:19pm

How very Christian of him.

8 Neutral President  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:56:26pm

re: #6 Erik The Red

I am so glad I have not gone to bed yet. Meltdown in 5,4,3,2...

"Maniac is imminent. Request advice."

9 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:56:29pm

re: #5 marjoriemoon

Granted. But at least as possible DA (hopefully) I have discretionary power to be hard or lenient when need be.

10 pat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:56:32pm

They use whatever defense comes to mind. It does not have to make sense. It merely has to grab one juror. It rarely does at the trial stage, but some times works at the sentencing phase, as it recently did in Knoxville where a defendant who assisted in the prolonged rape and torture of a young couple will serve a "life" sentence. This is what trial lawyers do every day. Think Med Mal. Think Edwards and his phony science. Think breast implants and phony science. Thin vaccinations.

11 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:57:17pm
Does he care that he may be inciting more violence?

It appears that Hirsh would be delighted if he were able to incite more violence.

12 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:57:22pm

Committing a cold-blooded murder is not ever "justifiable".

I can't believe this.

13 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:58:14pm

re: #12 reine.de.tout

Committing a cold-blooded murder is not ever "justifiable".

In this case, a murder in a church, no less.

14 jcm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 7:58:29pm

Won't fly.

Self defense only works if you or another are in imminent danger of death or serious injury.

Now if someone had plugged Roeder when he pulled the gun in the church, that would have been self defense.

15 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:00:48pm

re: #9 Ron Bacardi

Granted. But at least as possible DA (hopefully) I have discretionary power to be hard or lenient when need be.

Hello Mike Nifong Jr.

16 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:01:32pm

re: #14 jcm

Won't fly.

Self defense only works if you or another are in imminent danger of death or serious injury..

But the legal theory here isn't self-defense. The idea is that one can be excused for the use of deadly force if one is preventing a sufficiently serious crime in doing so. For example, if you witness a woman being raped, and you're carrying a gun, you're allowed to use the gun to shoot the rapist and stop the crime from being committed.

Hirsh is trying to argue that this applies in this case.

17 haakondahl  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:01:43pm

Oh, this ought to be good.

18 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:01:59pm

re: #15 David Simon

How is that being Mike Nifong, wise-guy? Every DA in the country has that power. It's a statement of fact.

19 jcm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:04:10pm

re: #16 Last Mohican

But the legal theory here isn't self-defense. The idea is that one can be excused for the use of deadly force if one is preventing a sufficiently serious crime in doing so. For example, if you witness a woman being raped, and you're carrying a gun, you're allowed to use the gun to shoot the rapist and stop the crime from being committed.

Hirsh is trying to argue that this applies in this case.

Thing is the doc was standing in a church. No imminent threat was presented.

You are allowed to plug the rapist in the act (considered serious injury where I come from), but not if you find him standing on a corner after the fact.

20 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:04:22pm

re: #14 jcm

Won't fly.

Self defense only works if you or another are in imminent danger of death or serious injury.

Now if someone had plugged Roeder when he pulled the gun in the church, that would have been self defense.

I agree. Like I say, everyone's entitled to a defense, even if the act is indefensible. I'm actually ok with this defense because it's ridiculous and jurors have already seen that once, when Paul Hill was executed.

21 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:04:56pm

re: #16 Last Mohican

But the legal theory here isn't self-defense. The idea is that one can be excused for the use of deadly force if one is preventing a sufficiently serious crime in doing so. For example, if you witness a woman being raped, and you're carrying a gun, you're allowed to use the gun to shoot the rapist and stop the crime from being committed.

Hirsh is trying to argue that this applies in this case.

Given that his client will undoubtedly commit more such killings if freed, abortion rights advocates might well be able to apply the same logic. I wonder if he has thought of that?

22 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:05:12pm

Of course he doesn't care. He probably wants to incite more violence.

I'm sick of the hypocrisy of those who claim these sorts of statements are anything but an incitement to violence or a justification for it. Randall Terry kicked off his campaign against Sotomayor in front of Tiller's shuttered clinic, with posters of her showing her face morphing into a skull, and saying this, and threatening violent convulsions and a possible civil war:

"Nevertheless, the sheer horror and frustration of such an evil policy will lead some people to absolutely refuse to pay their taxes. And I believe -- if my reading of history from America and around the world is correct -- that there are others who will be tempted to acts of violence.

"If the government of this country tramples the faith and values of its citizens, history will hold those in power responsible for the violent convulsions that follow."

And let's remember that the slogan of Operation Rescue, when it was founded, was "If you think abortion is murder, act like it."

Given the legal history here, where use of lethal force is considered excusable in defense of one's own life or the lives of others, it's hard not to see that as a call for murder.

And is it really a coincidence that the rightwing is now targetting Leroy Carthart in Nebraska, the former employee of Tiller who has vowed to continue providing late-term abortions? Of course not. Just yesterday they were gearing up and gathering outside his clinic:

Forces That Killed Dr. Tiller Plan Campaign to Terrorize Dr. Carhart & His Clinic

Operation Rescue is nothing more than a thinly veiled front for the murderous Army of God. It's time we admitted it.

23 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:06:21pm

re: #19 jcm

Thing is the doc was standing in a church. No imminent threat was presented.

You are allowed to plug the rapist in the act (considered serious injury where I come from), but not if you find him standing on a corner after the fact.

Not only that, the rapist is committing a crime. Tiller was abiding by the law when he was gunned down. Two completely different things.

24 jaunte  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:06:33pm
Does he care that he may be inciting more violence?


I think not, in fact there is a good possibility that it is his intent, when he jokes about "bag limits."

25 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:06:35pm

re: #18 Ron Bacardi

How is that being Mike Nifong, wise-guy? Every DA in the country has that power. It's a statement of fact.

Yes, but even the most seasoned DA isn't as brazen about it as a pischer like you.

26 mikalm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:07:36pm

Not surprising at all. This is what happens after 40+ years of people like Tony Serra, William Kuntsler and others utilizing the role of the defense cousel to "put the system on trial" and portray criminal acts --including murder -- as a form of legitimate political protest.

27 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:09:00pm

re: #21 Shiplord Kirel

Given that his client will undoubtedly commit more such killings if freed, abortion rights advocates might well be able to apply the same logic. I wonder if he has thought of that?

That's a good point. jcm was getting at the same point, above. This legal doctrine of using deadly force to prevent a sufficiently severe crime from occurring probably applies only if the crime is imminent. For example, you could shoot the rapist if he's in the act, but not if he merely announces that he plans to commit a rape sometime next week.

For that reason, the defense should fail, big time. Of course, with our delightful American jury system, the jury can decide to do whatever the hell they want. If Hirsh can manage to select a fanatical anti-abortion jury, he wins, and Roeder goes free, so that he can commit more cold-blooded murders.

28 Erik The Red  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:11:08pm

For real this time. Good Night Lizards. Stay scaly.

29 jcm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:11:51pm

re: #23 marjoriemoon

Not only that, the rapist is committing a crime. Tiller was abiding by the law when he was gunned down. Two completely different things.

WA where I live, self defense is very broadly interpreted. A person only needs to articulate a reasonable fear of serious injury, i.e. you only need to be able to state you feared for your safety and articulate a reasonable fear. "He came at me in the dark and something was in his hand."

Even under WA's broad interpretation, this case wouldn't fly.

30 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:12:11pm

re: #22 iceweasel

Well-stated, and I agree with everything you said, except

the rightwing is now targetting Leroy Carthart in Nebraska.

I think "the right wing" is too inclusive there. There are certainly sickening, violent thugs like those of Operation Rescue who are gathering in Nebraska and would like to murder Cathcart. But those people do not include everyone to the right of center.

31 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:13:03pm

re: #27 Last Mohican

That's a good point. jcm was getting at the same point, above. This legal doctrine of using deadly force to prevent a sufficiently severe crime from occurring probably applies only if the crime is imminent. For example, you could shoot the rapist if he's in the act, but not if he merely announces that he plans to commit a rape sometime next week.

For that reason, the defense should fail, big time. Of course, with our delightful American jury system, the jury can decide to do whatever the hell they want. If Hirsh can manage to select a fanatical anti-abortion jury, he wins, and Roeder goes free, so that he can commit more cold-blooded murders.

Tiller wasn't doing anything wrong. His profession was within the law. You can't compare this to a rape case either before, during or after.

If you don't agree with what someone is doing, even if it offends your moral sensibilities, you don't act on that by killing them. You can try to change the law if you don't like it. I'm assuming this is what it will come down to for the jury and I'd like to think that any defense he has is going to be poor next to that.

32 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:13:46pm

re: #30 Last Mohican

Well-stated, and I agree with everything you said, except

I think "the right wing" is too inclusive there. There are certainly sickening, violent thugs like those of Operation Rescue who are gathering in Nebraska and would like to murder Cathcart. But those people do not include everyone to the right of center.

Totally agree with you. I was so angry when I was typing I see I left out a few words and kept in some extra ones! That's what I get for not proofreading.
Also, this doesn't even describe everyone who is anti-abortion, by any means. Just the crazed murderous thugs.

33 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:14:18pm

re: #29 jcm

WA where I live, self defense is very broadly interpreted. A person only needs to articulate a reasonable fear of serious injury, i.e. you only need to be able to state you feared for your safety and articulate a reasonable fear. "He came at me in the dark and something was in his hand."

Even under WA's broad interpretation, this case wouldn't fly.

Well yes. In essence, Tiller was not knocking on people's doors demanding he give them an abortion.

34 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:15:46pm

This is the same kind of fine line the Arizona preacher was walking when he gave his "I hate Obama" sermon. People who don't find that sort of thing worrisome on the part of these kooks and Obama should ask Dr Tiller's family what they think of that fine line.

35 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:16:21pm

These people could make a much greater difference if they quit fighting what is a losing battle, and turned their energies toward positive actions - supporting and providing services that enable and encourage women to choose to carry and give birth to their babies, pregnancy counseling, medical care assistance, parenting classes or adoption placement and counseling services, etc., - these are things that can have a real and positive impact, and these are things that can be done out of love, not hate.

Instead, they turn toward violence, toward terrorizing clinics and the people who work there and the people who seek the services of the clinics - these are negatives and like many negatives, these actions are born from hatred, instead of love.

It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

36 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:17:09pm

re: #30 Last Mohican

Well-stated, and I agree with everything you said, except

I think "the right wing" is too inclusive there. There are certainly sickening, violent thugs like those of Operation Rescue who are gathering in Nebraska and would like to murder Cathcart. But those people do not include everyone to the right of center.

No, they don't.
I can't think that many here are more right of center than I am, and I certainly wouldn't be a part of any of that.

37 Last Mohican  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:17:24pm

re: #31 marjoriemoon

Tiller wasn't doing anything wrong. His profession was within the law.

Yes, it was, and that's the other reason why this legal theory must fail. You're only allowed to kill someone to stop a sufficiently serious crime from being committed. You can't kill someone, for example, because otherwise they were about to shoplift a Twinkie from the Seven-Eleven. And, more to the point, you also can't kill someone because they were going to do something that's perfectly legal, but that you disapprove of (like Tiller).

I still remain afraid that some sufficiently insane jury would allow Roeder to go free. At the risk of bringing down a whole swarm of Paulians down me like a bunch of dementors, I don't particularly believe in the jury system.

38 jaunte  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:17:50pm

re: #35 reine.de.tout

I agree completely; it's unfortunate that some people find hatred so much more to their taste than love.

39 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:18:04pm

re: #31 marjoriemoon


If you don't agree with what someone is doing, even if it offends your moral sensibilities, you don't act on that by killing them. You can try to change the law if you don't like it.

That's the whole point for the murderous thugs. They've decided that the law doesn't matter. Roe v Wade is legal and it ain't going away. So they've decided the only law that matters is their moral law, and they believe it justifies breaking the actual law. They've decided they are the judge, jury and executioner, and seek to impose their will on the rest of us.

40 jcm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:18:37pm

re: #27 Last Mohican

Means.
Opportunity.
Intent.

Does the assailant have the means? Weapon, or even hands and feet. As perceived by the victim.

Opportunity, can he use the weapon to inflict harm?

Intent, either verbal or physical, he has a weapon and threatens with it, or states he will use it.

This is pretty much a nationwide standard with slightly different wording and application.

Those are the fundamentals to use of force. Depending on the training of the defender the rules will be applied more or less strictly. A little old lady at home will have much more latitude than a cop.

It's patently obvious none of the three apply in case.

41 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:18:45pm

re: #39 iceweasel

They've decided they are the judge, jury and executioner, and seek to impose their will on the rest of us.

...in bed.

//just passing through

42 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:19:22pm

I think that moronicide is justifiable.

43 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:19:59pm

re: #25 David Simon

Spare me please. Discretionary power is the first thing you're taught in advanced criminal procedure. But feel free to bloviate some more.

44 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:20:23pm

re: #16 Last Mohican

But the legal theory here isn't self-defense. The idea is that one can be excused for the use of deadly force if one is preventing a sufficiently serious crime in doing so. For example, if you witness a woman being raped, and you're carrying a gun, you're allowed to use the gun to shoot the rapist and stop the crime from being committed.

Hirsh is trying to argue that this applies in this case.

How can it possibly apply? Tiller was AT CHURCH, he was not at his clinic performing an abortion, if that is what the defendant was supposedly trying to prevent, and even then Tiller was not committing any crime. Epic fail.

45 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:21:07pm

re: #35 reine.de.tout

These people could make a much greater difference if they quit fighting what is a losing battle, and turned their energies toward positive actions - supporting and providing services that enable and encourage women to choose to carry and give birth to their babies, pregnancy counseling, medical care assistance, parenting classes or adoption placement and counseling services, etc., - these are things that can have a real and positive impact, and these are things that can be done out of love, not hate.

Instead, they turn toward violence, toward terrorizing clinics and the people who work there and the people who seek the services of the clinics - these are negatives and like many negatives, these actions are born from hatred, instead of love.

It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

It makes sense once you realize that it's about controlling women and attempting to impose a theocracy in America.

46 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:21:30pm

re: #32 iceweasel

Totally agree with you. I was so angry when I was typing I see I left out a few words and kept in some extra ones! That's what I get for not proofreading.
Also, this doesn't even describe everyone who is anti-abortion, by any means. Just the crazed murderous thugs.

I always type angry.

Why else type?

47 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:21:41pm

On the face of it, this defense is absurd. However, a jury has almost unlimited discretion beyond what most people realize. If the jury is dumb enough to be talked into this, it may fly. If not the defendant can say he was inadequately represented.

48 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:22:00pm

re: #42 I am smarter than you

I think that moronicide is justifiable.

No, it's not.

49 jcm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:22:16pm

re: #45 MandyManners

It makes sense once you realize that it's about controlling women and attempting to impose a theocracy in America.

How did you get out of the kitchen, and where did you get those shoes!

/// ;-P

50 quickjustice  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:22:26pm

Sounds like a legal defense that will fail to me.

51 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:22:29pm

re: #45 MandyManners

Being pro-life is about controlling women and establishing a theocracy? Now who's being extremist?

52 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:22:29pm

re: #47 swamprat

On the face of it, this defense is absurd. However, a jury has almost unlimited discretion beyond what most people realize. If the jury is dumb enough to be talked into this, it may fly.

The argument brought to you by the letters "O" and "J".

53 jcm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:22:44pm

re: #47 swamprat

On the face of it, this defense is absurd. However, a jury has almost unlimited discretion beyond what most people realize. If the jury is dumb enough to be talked into this, it may fly. If not the defendant can say he was inadequately represented.

If the glove fits...

54 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:22:51pm

re: #35 reine.de.tout

These people could make a much greater difference if they quit fighting what is a losing battle, and turned their energies toward positive actions - supporting and providing services that enable and encourage women to choose to carry and give birth to their babies, pregnancy counseling, medical care assistance, parenting classes or adoption placement and counseling services, etc., - these are things that can have a real and positive impact, and these are things that can be done out of love, not hate.

Instead, they turn toward violence, toward terrorizing clinics and the people who work there and the people who seek the services of the clinics - these are negatives and like many negatives, these actions are born from hatred, instead of love.

It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Actually, Planned Parenthood covers all of that inclusive of abortion counseling, because that's also a legal option.

55 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:22:56pm

re: #51 Ron Bacardi

Being pro-life is about controlling women and establishing a theocracy? Now who's being extremist?

Look at the Army of God.

56 quickjustice  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:23:04pm

re: #42 I am smarter than you

Oh, suicide? ;-)

57 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:23:05pm

re: #31 marjoriemoon

Tiller wasn't doing anything wrong. His profession was within the law. You can't compare this to a rape case either before, during or after.

If you don't agree with what someone is doing, even if it offends your moral sensibilities, you don't act on that by killing them. You can try to change the law if you don't like it. I'm assuming this is what it will come down to for the jury and I'd like to think that any defense he has is going to be poor next to that.

You can try to change the law and if that doesn't work, there are other things that can be done, positive actions that can be taken to reduce the effect of the law, in this case, by providing services, counseling, support. There's always a non-violent alternative - always.

58 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:23:43pm

Here is how it goes - people with sticks up their asses always have a need to stick one up yours.

59 steve  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:23:47pm

I hope they lose!

60 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:24:14pm

re: #55 MandyManners

And look at NRLC. Are associating Army of God and Operation Rescue with the entire movement?

61 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:24:19pm

re: #58 I am smarter than you

Here is how it goes - people with sticks up their asses always have a need to stick one up yours.

In bed.

62 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:24:20pm

re: #46 I am smarter than you

You are not smarter than me.

63 afootball  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:24:50pm

He can argue any damn thing he pleases, including the Chewbacca defense.

I'll worry about it when the defense actually works.

64 jaunte  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:25:01pm

No sticks please, we're British.

65 quickjustice  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:25:14pm

re: #32 iceweasel

"It's "ow" and "garn" that keep her in her place,
not her wretched clothes and dirt face."

66 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:25:55pm

re: #35 reine.de.tout

I have this weird idea about getting pregnant women and doctors to go into their local schools and do ultra-sounds for the students in either health or biology classes. Might really make the kids think about the impact of sex without mentioning religious aspects at all. I really think these zealots' anti-science stances work against them in the long run.

67 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:26:30pm

re: #54 marjoriemoon

Actually, Planned Parenthood covers all of that inclusive of abortion counseling, because that's also a legal option.

Well, perhaps they do.
But they sure don't publicize it with the same passion that they publicize their other services.

68 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:26:31pm

re: #37 Last Mohican

Yes, it was, and that's the other reason why this legal theory must fail. You're only allowed to kill someone to stop a sufficiently serious crime from being committed. You can't kill someone, for example, because otherwise they were about to shoplift a Twinkie from the Seven-Eleven. And, more to the point, you also can't kill someone because they were going to do something that's perfectly legal, but that you disapprove of (like Tiller).

I still remain afraid that some sufficiently insane jury would allow Roeder to go free. At the risk of bringing down a whole swarm of Paulians down me like a bunch of dementors, I don't particularly believe in the jury system.

I realize we're on the same side, but I still have a problem with comparing what Tiller did to an illegal act. But I hear ya.

I have more faith in the justice system, I guess. I really do think it works well most the time.

69 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:26:38pm

re: #63 afootball

He can argue any damn thing he pleases, including the Chewbacca defense.

I'll worry about it when the defense actually works.

Other examples of the Chewbacca defense...

70 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:26:40pm

re: #43 Ron Bacardi

Spare me please. Discretionary power is the first thing you're taught in advanced criminal procedure. But feel free to bloviate some more.

You haven't even started working, and yet, you're already formulating who you will and won't prosecute aggressively. Please stay out of my district.

71 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:27:04pm

Crap-- I've been farting around with a legal brief all damn day and I come home to a legal issue here. I am not even go to go into lawyers, posturing, playing to the potential jury pool, etc..

As a trial lawyer, this guy is not serious-he's testing the waters.

Still, it produces an "Ugh" from me.

72 sngnsgt  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:27:26pm

re: #66 Sharmuta

Scared straight, I like the idea.

73 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:27:29pm

re: #60 Ron Bacardi

And look at NRLC. Are associating Army of God and Operation Rescue with the entire movement?

Charles had a series of threads about this murder. The AoG was discussed quite a bit in them. IIRC, Roeder is connected to it.

74 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:28:55pm

re: #70 David Simon

Wow. Reading comprehension. Get some.

75 jcm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:29:26pm

re: #43 Ron Bacardi

Spare me please. Discretionary power is the first thing you're taught in advanced criminal procedure. But feel free to bloviate some more.

But the jury is also instructed on the law as it applies in the case. It should be pretty clear that Roeder's actions do not met the minimum requirements for self defense.

76 Irenicum  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:29:26pm

re: #42 I am smarter than you

Um, nope. Never!

77 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:29:44pm

re: #39 iceweasel

Hi Iceweasel :) Good to see you!

That's the whole point for the murderous thugs. They've decided that the law doesn't matter. Roe v Wade is legal and it ain't going away. So they've decided the only law that matters is their moral law, and they believe it justifies breaking the actual law. They've decided they are the judge, jury and executioner, and seek to impose their will on the rest of us.

The words "Gott mit uns" spring to mind.

78 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:30:21pm

re: #1 Ron Bacardi

This is why I refuse to be a  defense  lawyer  when I graduate 

79 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:30:27pm

re: #66 Sharmuta

I have this weird idea about getting pregnant women and doctors to go into their local schools and do ultra-sounds for the students in either health or biology classes. Might really make the kids think about the impact of sex without mentioning religious aspects at all. I really think these zealots' anti-science stances work against them in the long run.

There is another approach - they can babysit my sister's kids. Every time I hear that biological clock tick I volunteer to visit and watch her kids for a few days.

Best birth control there is.

80 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:30:40pm

re: #45 MandyManners

It makes sense once you realize that it's about controlling women and attempting to impose a theocracy in America.

What?!

81 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:30:46pm

re: #73 MandyManners

Ok? What's your point? I'm not defending AoG.

82 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:30:58pm

Killed the man in freakin' church. That's like spitting in the face of god and saying; "Well if you don't to take care of this, I'll handle it!"

The man himself went to the effort to find a church that would accept him. And this cretin decides to break the sanctimony and refuge of holy ground.


Could go on, but why? Needs a better defense. Insanity.

83 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:31:00pm

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

~C.S. Lewis

84 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:31:04pm

He's just interviewing lawyer/defense options, as I read the article.

Roeder has court-appointed defense attorneys, but he apparently has now turned to Michael Hirsh, the lawyer who represented Paul Hill on appeal for killing a Florida abortion provider and his bodyguard in 1994. Hill was executed in 2003 after the Florida Supreme Court rejected Hirsh's argument that the judge should have allowed Hill to present to jurors his claim that the killings were justified to prevent abortions.

85 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:31:11pm

re: #66 Sharmuta

I have this weird idea about getting pregnant women and doctors to go into their local schools and do ultra-sounds for the students in either health or biology classes. Might really make the kids think about the impact of sex without mentioning religious aspects at all. I really think these zealots' anti-science stances work against them in the long run.

Don't they do that thing where they make them carry around sacks of flour or sugar? Actually I think they have dolls now. For at-risk kids.

Education is a good thing especially when kids get wrong info on protection. But the folks that want to kill Tiller also do not want any kind of sex education taught in school and that includes prevention.

86 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:31:21pm

re: #75 jcm

I couldn't agree more.

87 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:31:22pm

re: #79 I am smarter than you

There is another approach - they can babysit my sister's kids. Every time I hear that biological clock tick I volunteer to visit and watch her kids for a few days.

Best birth control there is.

Good, because we don't want your kind breeding.

88 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:31:38pm

re: #80 David Simon

What?!

Army of God.

89 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:31:50pm

re: #87 Alouette

Good, because we don't want your kind breeding.

Especially ... in bed.

90 flyovercountry  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:32:02pm

I can't believe any judge in his right mind would let this argument go forward. they will not allow this clearly incompetant defense to be profered in a capital case. Is this lawyer's intention to get his client the death penalty? Grab the popcorn law freaks, this should be fun.

91 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:32:03pm

re: #81 Ron Bacardi

Ok? What's your point? I'm not defending AoG.

AoG WOULD implement a theorcracy in America.

92 jcm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:32:06pm

re: #84 Floral Giraffe

He's just interviewing lawyer/defense options, as I read the article.

Roeder has court-appointed defense attorneys, but he apparently has now turned to Michael Hirsh, the lawyer who represented Paul Hill on appeal for killing a Florida abortion provider and his bodyguard in 1994. Hill was executed in 2003 after the Florida Supreme Court rejected Hirsh's argument that the judge should have allowed Hill to present to jurors his claim that the killings were justified to prevent abortions.

With a record like that maybe he should represent Roeder.

93 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:32:31pm

Question for the lawyers here?
Isn't this crap unethical, in that Hirsh is demonstrably not acting in the best interest of his client?
It seems that he could reasonably argue that Roeder was depressed, delusional, and vulnerable to manipulation by charismatic and ruthless associates. Instead, though, he seems to be tossing Roeder under the train to make a batshit crazy political point.

94 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:32:51pm

re: #51 Ron Bacardi

Being pro-life is about controlling women and establishing a theocracy? Now who's being extremist?

No, being anti-choice is about controlling women and establishing a theocracy.

Be pro-life all you want. Focus on promoting adoptions, ensuring better access to birth control and emergency contraception, lessening the need for abortion in the first place. Those are issues we can ALL agree on. Including pro-choice people like me.

But the anti-choice people want to take away my right to choose what I do with my body. They seek to ensure that biology be destiny-- for women only, for the accident of nature that makes only one sex capable of becoming pregnant. And they rarely seem to care about the genuinely pro-life issues I mentioned above-- the ones that would make a positive difference in the lives of women, and reduce the number of abortions performed.

And that is all about controlling women and advancing a theocratic agenda. Why else do they seek to restrict access to emergency contraception? Why do they seek conscience clauses that would allow pharmacists to refuse to dispense the pill? That is entirely about controlling women's sexuality. That is entirely about taking away choices from women. That is entirely about devaluing a woman's personhood and status as a moral agent -- in favour of valuing her for her potential ability to be a fetal container.

Our bodies, our choice.

This rant has been brought to you on behalf of the feminist agenda. ;) Think I need a drink!

95 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:33:36pm

re: #91 MandyManners

I'm not arguing against that. My entire point is that you made it sound like that is the ultimate of the pro-life movement and not just AoG.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:33:36pm

re: #30 Last Mohican

Well-stated, and I agree with everything you said, except


I think "the right wing" is too inclusive there. There are certainly sickening, violent thugs like those of Operation Rescue who are gathering in Nebraska and would like to murder Cathcart. But those people do not include everyone to the right of center.

I absolutely agree, but would ask that everyone here maintain the same standard when referring to 'the left'.

;)

97 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:34:01pm

re: #92 jcm

LOL! I had thought that too!

98 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:34:27pm

re: #83 Sharmuta

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

~C.S. Lewis

How did Lewis come to read Ayn Rand?

99 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:34:42pm

re: #94 iceweasel

Also, many who are anti-choice think that contraceptives should be illegal again.

100 jaunte  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:35:05pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

Won't that make it harder to generalize about people we don't know?

101 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:35:27pm

re: #91 MandyManners

AoG WOULD implement a theorcracy in America.

My kids used to belong to a children's organization called "Army of G-d" (in Hebrew, "Tzivos Hashem"). They earned points and prizes for doing stuff like putting coins in the charity box, lighting Sabbath candles, attending services on Sabbath and holidays, attending a Passover Seder, listening to their parents, cleaning their rooms, brushing their teeth. Killing unbelievers was not on the list.

/but controlling the world as a Zionist Overlord was one of the prizes

102 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:35:37pm

re: #94 iceweasel

But the anti-choice people want to take away my right to choose what I do with my body.

When did this thread become about TeddyCare?

103 Irenicum  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:36:40pm

re: #66 Sharmuta

Excellent point. Religion doesn't need to be a part of the equation. Just biology and physiology.

104 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:37:09pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

I absolutely agree, but would ask that everyone here maintain the same standard when referring to 'the left'.

;)

But...but lefties are the spawn of Satan.
/

105 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:37:10pm

re: #95 Ron Bacardi

I'm not arguing against that. My entire point is that you made it sound like that is the ultimate of the pro-life movement and not just AoG.

The people behind this killer are just like that. I'm not talking about every member of OR. I'm talking about those who approve of the AoG. I'm sure the membership of both crosses over.

106 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:38:01pm

re: #101 Alouette

My kids used to belong to a children's organization called "Army of G-d" (in Hebrew, "Tzivos Hashem"). They earned points and prizes for doing stuff like putting coins in the charity box, lighting Sabbath candles, attending services on Sabbath and holidays, attending a Passover Seder, listening to their parents, cleaning their rooms, brushing their teeth. Killing unbelievers was not on the list.

/but controlling the world as a Zionist Overlord was one of the prizes

No Zionist checks?

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:38:31pm

re: #32 iceweasel

Totally agree with you. I was so angry when I was typing I see I left out a few words and kept in some extra ones! That's what I get for not proofreading.
Also, this doesn't even describe everyone who is anti-abortion, by any means. Just the crazed murderous thugs.

Yes.

Your average anti-abortion person, or anti-abortion activist is perfectly sane.

However, the movement has attracted an ugly fringe of some extraordinarily reckless and violent people.

108 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:38:45pm

re: #95 Ron Bacardi

I'm not arguing against that. My entire point is that you made it sound like that is the ultimate of the pro-life movement and not just AoG.

Not giving women an option of abortion is telling a woman she has no rights to decisions affecting her own body and life. So I have to agree with Mandy upthread.

109 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:40:15pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Don't they do that thing where they make them carry around sacks of flour or sugar? Actually I think they have dolls now. For at-risk kids.

Education is a good thing especially when kids get wrong info on protection. But the folks that want to kill Tiller also do not want any kind of sex education taught in school and that includes prevention.

First- I think sacks of flour miss the mark compared to a real infant. It's a terrible exercise in my opinion, and actually a little demeaning and degrading to infants.

I know these AoG types are anti-intellectuals and don't want children educated in science, history, and health (including sex). That's why I think pushing back by holding the line on evolution (and real science, math, history and civics) is more important than ever. Biology is the science of Life. If these people were really pro-life, they should be supporting biology classes and that includes evolution. It's quiet miraculous, Life. And science has made me appreciate it even more. Fundamentalists see it as an enemy when it's really quite the opposite. Sad.

110 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:40:24pm

re: #106 MandyManners

No Zionist checks?

Of course, Zionist checks are included in the prizes!

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:40:28pm

re: #37 Last Mohican


I still remain afraid that some sufficiently insane jury would allow Roeder to go free. At the risk of bringing down a whole swarm of Paulians down me like a bunch of dementors, I don't particularly believe in the jury system.

I can't believe that a properly instructed jury would fall for this.

112 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:41:09pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

I can't believe that a properly instructed jury would fall for this.

Have you seen the kinds of things that properly instructed juries have already fallen for?

113 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:41:37pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

I can't believe that a properly instructed jury would fall for this.

Was the O. J. jury properly instructed?

114 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:42:00pm

re: #91 MandyManners

Not the AoG church I go to. Don't lump 'em all together.

115 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:42:34pm

re: #74 Ron Bacardi

Wow. Reading comprehension. Get some.

Your words:

But at least as possible DA (hopefully) I have discretionary power to be hard or lenient when need be.

I suppose it's possible that I've misread your intentions. I sincerely hope you mean that you would prosecute a case based on the facts, not on your personal feelings.

116 jcm  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:42:52pm

re: #113 Alouette

Was the O. J. jury properly instructed?

No Ito lost control to Cochrine (sp?) very early, the defense was in control very early on.

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:42:58pm

re: #51 Ron Bacardi

Being pro-life is about controlling women and establishing a theocracy? Now who's being extremist?

Not being pro-life, choosing murder over legal protest and support of pregnant women.

118 Irenicum  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:43:13pm

re: #83 Sharmuta

Which book? Either I have it or need it.

119 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:43:17pm

re: #99 MandyManners

Also, many who are anti-choice think that contraceptives should be illegal again.

Exactly Mandy. Excellent point, and it speaks to the same theocratic agenda and desire to control women--especially their sexuality.

These are the sorts of actions that give the lie to the notion that those people care about women, or about reducing the number of abortions. They clearly want to increase the number of pregnancies while taking away the option of abortion--and they don't give a shit if women die performing self-abortions or in back alley abortions. In fact, they prefer it that way.

*Note: I am describing the anti-choice people here, not the pro-life people. I consider the two groups distinct as mentioned above.

120 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:43:56pm

re: #112 JamesTKirk

Have you seen the kinds of things that properly instructed juries have already fallen for?

Juries have a nasty habit of ignoring instructions. And, unless the verdict is contrary to the law-- or invalid on its face, you can't use the mental process of the jury as a basis for a new trial or jnov (judgment notwithstanding the verdict)

121 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:44:32pm

re: #114 calcajun

Not the AoG church I go to. Don't lump 'em all together.

Army of God.

122 yesandno  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:44:35pm

How you justify such behavior is beyond me. If you don't believe in abortion, then taking any human life is just as wrong. You seek redress in the courts, change the laws, etc.

Killing your way to morality is self-defeating, is it not?

123 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:44:55pm

re: #116 jcm

No-- it received a proper set of instructions. They just did not follow all of the them.

124 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:45:11pm

re: #94 iceweasel

If right to choose what you do with your body means the right to kill your kid, then I guess we can't agree on that respect. And you seem to have many of these pre-concieved ideas that most pro-lifers are completely one-dimensional with their belief set. Which is patently false. Of course we care about the issues you stated earlier but abortion is obviously going to be issue number one. Furthermore, the restrictions on emergency contraception refer are about age limits, not wholesale bans. I don't deny there are those in the movement who ascribe to what you allege, but that isn't the view of the vast majority of pro-lifers I communicate and organize with. And as far as the pharmacist issue is concerned, while there are a fair number of pro-lifers who are in favor of those, I am not. A pharmacist has to be aware of what is expected of them when they go into that profession and realize that they can be accommodated with every bit of religious opposition they have with dispensing "x" pill and whatnot.

125 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:45:29pm

re: #119 iceweasel

Exactly Mandy. Excellent point, and it speaks to the same theocratic agenda and desire to control women--especially their sexuality.

These are the sorts of actions that give the lie to the notion that those people care about women, or about reducing the number of abortions. They clearly want to increase the number of pregnancies while taking away the option of abortion--and they don't give a shit if women die performing self-abortions or in back alley abortions. In fact, they prefer it that way.

*Note: I am describing the anti-choice people here, not the pro-life people. I consider the two groups distinct as mentioned above.

They're scared of vaginas.

126 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:45:44pm

re: #109 Sharmuta

First- I think sacks of flour miss the mark compared to a real infant. It's a terrible exercise in my opinion, and actually a little demeaning and degrading to infants.

I know these AoG types are anti-intellectuals and don't want children educated in science, history, and health (including sex). That's why I think pushing back by holding the line on evolution (and real science, math, history and civics) is more important than ever. Biology is the science of Life. If these people were really pro-life, they should be supporting biology classes and that includes evolution. It's quiet miraculous, Life. And science has made me appreciate it even more. Fundamentalists see it as an enemy when it's really quite the opposite. Sad.

Absolutely agree. Good parallel.

With the babies, I don't think they use sacks of flour hehe... they did. Now, there are actual dolls that mimic infants. They cry when soiled, want to be fed, are not held properly, etc. There's a computer chip in the doll that records the student's performance. I think it's been very effective. Young girls have little idea of the hard work that goes behind caring for an infant.

127 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:45:55pm

re: #125 MandyManners

They're scared of vaginas.

More for me, I guess.

128 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:45:56pm

re: #105 MandyManners

ok then, fair enough.

129 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:45:58pm
abortionists there will be a bag limit


"bag limit".
Game over.
This guy should be excluded from this case, and possibly from practice.


Am I missing something here?

130 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:46:01pm

re: #121 MandyManners

Army of God.

Ah-- I jumped to the wrong conclusion-- Assemblies of God is my church--complete with a surfing pastor.

131 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:46:46pm

re: #124 Ron Bacardi

If right to choose what you do with your body means the right to kill your kid, then I guess we can't agree on that respect. And you seem to have many of these pre-concieved ideas that most pro-lifers are completely one-dimensional with their belief set. Which is patently false. Of course we care about the issues you stated earlier but abortion is obviously going to be issue number one. Furthermore, the restrictions on emergency contraception refer are about age limits, not wholesale bans. I don't deny there are those in the movement who ascribe to what you allege, but that isn't the view of the vast majority of pro-lifers I communicate and organize with. And as far as the pharmacist issue is concerned, while there are a fair number of pro-lifers who are in favor of those, I am not. A pharmacist has to be aware of what is expected of them when they go into that profession and realize that they can be accommodated with every bit of religious opposition they have with dispensing "x" pill and whatnot.

Some people do not beleive that a non-viable fetus is a "kid".

132 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:46:58pm

re: #127 JamesTKirk

re: #125 MandyManners

They're scared of vaginas.

More for me, I guess.

My wife is right behind me. Good thing she has a sense of humor, too.

//She must -- she married me. ;)

133 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:47:05pm

re: #127 JamesTKirk

More for me, I guess.

In bed.

134 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:47:32pm

First thought: this is outright lunacy.

135 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:47:57pm

re: #128 Ron Bacardi

ok then, fair enough.

I sometimes expect people to read my mind. I think this was one of those times.

136 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:48:02pm

re: #125 MandyManners

They're scared of vaginas.

Reminds me of other fundamentalists obsessed about their women's bodies.

137 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:48:09pm

re: #130 calcajun

Ah-- I jumped to the wrong conclusion-- Assemblies of God is my church--complete with a surfing pastor.

Whenever I see a sign for "Assembly of God" I wonder where they get all of the parts. Do you really want to choose a God where some assembly is required?

138 esch  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:48:11pm

re: #127 JamesTKirk

More for me, I guess.

It's a veritable cornucopia of c...on second thought, nevermind.

139 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:48:22pm

re: #129 swamprat

"bag limit".
Game over.
This guy should be excluded from this case, and possibly from practice.

Am I missing something here?

No. And you are missing the point-- trial lawyers are more impresario than advocate sometimes and this is no different. He's playing to the potential jury pool.

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:48:46pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Don't they do that thing where they make them carry around sacks of flour or sugar? Actually I think they have dolls now. For at-risk kids.

Education is a good thing especially when kids get wrong info on protection. But the folks that want to kill Tiller also do not want any kind of sex education taught in school and that includes prevention.

One of my students had to carry around an egg for a week, as part of her confirmation class. I lived in terror for that week that I was going to somehow take out the egg as I leaned across the desks to help someone with their grammar assignment.

She drew a face and a little onesie on it.

141 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:49:00pm

re: #132 JamesTKirk

My wife is right behind me. Good thing she has a sense of humor, too.

//She must -- she married me. ;)

Note to wife of JamesTKirk : Run!

142 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:49:17pm

re: #133 MandyManners

re: #127 JamesTKirk

More for me, I guess.

In bed.

In the bed, in the car, in the kitchen, in the lake, in an elevator...

143 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:49:24pm

re: #136 Sharmuta

Reminds me of other fundamentalists obsessed about their women's bodies.

Oh, yes, indeed.

144 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:49:40pm

re: #125 MandyManners

They're scared of vaginas.

I certainly blink when I see one.

145 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:49:50pm

re: #65 quickjustice

"It's "ow" and "garn" that keep her in her place,
not her wretched clothes and dirt face."

A woman's place is in the house...


and the Senate.

And anywhere else she damn well pleases. :)

Youtube Video
146 Irenicum  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:50:01pm

re: #101 Alouette

lol!

147 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:50:16pm

re: #141 I am smarter than you

Note to wife of JamesTKirk : Run!

Nah. She is smarter than you.

148 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:50:26pm

re: #136 Sharmuta

Reminds me of other fundamentalists obsessed about their women's bodies.

Two words: Jimmy Swaggart

149 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:50:57pm

It just doesn't make sense for a lawyer to be talking about "bag limits" on those who work in an overly, and unfairly demonized profession.

I mean really, c'mon.

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:50:58pm

re: #101 Alouette

My kids used to belong to a children's organization called "Army of G-d" (in Hebrew, "Tzivos Hashem"). They earned points and prizes for doing stuff like putting coins in the charity box, lighting Sabbath candles, attending services on Sabbath and holidays, attending a Passover Seder, listening to their parents, cleaning their rooms, brushing their teeth. Killing unbelievers was not on the list.

/but controlling the world as a Zionist Overlord was one of the prizes

I remember Tsivos Hashem! We got their literature at Sunday School. It was a SUPER Reform shul, so some of it was not exactly applicable, but I still have the Beetle Bailey-illustrated booklet somewhere.

151 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:50:59pm

re: #148 calcajun

Two words: Jimmy Swaggart

Islam.

152 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:51:04pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

One of my students had to carry around an egg for a week, as part of her confirmation class. I lived in terror for that week that I was going to somehow take out the egg as I leaned across the desks to help someone with their grammar assignment.

She drew a face and a little onesie on it.

LOL!

153 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:51:11pm

re: #143 MandyManners

Oh, yes, indeed.

John Lennon was right.

154 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:51:38pm

re: #149 Slumbering Behemoth

It just doesn't make sense for a lawyer to be talking about "bag limits" on those who work in an overly, and unfairly demonized profession.

I mean really, c'mon.

See mine @ 139

155 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:51:39pm

re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember Tsivos Hashem! We got their literature at Sunday School. It was a SUPER Reform shul, so some of it was not exactly applicable, but I still have the Beetle Bailey-illustrated booklet somewhere.

Sunday school?

156 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:52:20pm

re: #153 Sharmuta

Oh, I hate that word.

157 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:52:24pm

re: #151 MandyManners

Islam.

Christians don't have a monopoly on hypocrisy.

158 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:52:35pm

Good evening y'all - hope all of you are doing well this evening.

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:52:48pm

re: #112 JamesTKirk

Have you seen the kinds of things that properly instructed juries have already fallen for?

Yes, but I think in general they do OK. All right, I believe the odds are against a properly instructed jury falling for this.

160 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:52:55pm

re: #157 calcajun

Christians don't have a monopoly on hypocrisy.

Not even.

161 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:52:59pm

re: #158 realwest

Good evening y'all - hope all of you are doing well this evening.

You walked into a humdinger tonight.

162 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:53:03pm

re: #156 MandyManners

I do too- but... it's doesn't change the point.

163 Irenicum  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:53:11pm

re: #109 Sharmuta

I couldn't agree more! Well said.

164 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:53:24pm

re: #162 Sharmuta

I do too- but... it's doesn't change the point.

No, it doesn't.

165 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:53:52pm

re: #147 JamesTKirk

Nah. She is smarter than you.

We aren't talking about her intelligence.

166 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:53:55pm

re: #124 Ron Bacardi

I am anti-abortion, but this kind of heavy handed rhetoric is over the top. No is suggesting abortion in the twelfth trimester. Lighten up. These are difficult choices, and the people facing them need help, not condemnation. By the way, the base for ajudicate is "ajudah"(sp?) which means to help. Judges more properly are helpers, not punishers. To understand the job, understand the origins.

167 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:54:20pm

re: #161 calcajun

You walked into a humdinger tonight.

Uh oh. Where do y'all stand on this issue (not abortion on the lawyers statement)?

168 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:55:08pm

It's time to hit the hay. Good night, Lizards.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:55:37pm

re: #142 JamesTKirk

In the bed, in the car, in the kitchen, in the lake, in an elevator...

Are you ***ing Matt Damon?

170 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:55:38pm

re: #168 MandyManners
Good night Mandy - sleep well.

171 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:56:12pm

re: #157 calcajun

Christians don't have a monopoly on hypocrisy.


But we have the main franchise!

172 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:56:27pm

re: #165 I am smarter than you

We aren't talking about her intelligence.

I said before that she must have a sense of humor -- she married me.

Well, I must be intelligent -- I married her.

173 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:56:31pm

re: #124 Ron Bacardi

If right to choose what you do with your body means the right to kill your kid

And that's where the conversation ends, because a fetus is not a kid, nor is abortion murder. You're buying into the premise that the defense lawyer wants to appeal to. It's nothing more than a backdoor way to try to get abortion itself treated as a crime against persons...which it is not.

And you seem to have many of these pre-concieved ideas that most pro-lifers are completely one-dimensional with their belief set. Which is patently false.

No, it's patently clear that you either misunderstood or didn't bother to read my posts, where I've been careful to draw distinctions between being anti-choice and being pro-life. What's patently false is for you to claim I have that belief.

Looks to me like the one with the pre-conceived notions here is you, since you can't be bothered to address the points I've actually made and prefer instead to address the straw-weasel in your head.

174 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:56:58pm

Towercam view with fire.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:57:08pm

re: #155 MandyManners

Sunday school?

We were a very High Church Reform synagogue. The rabbis wore robes, and no yarmulkes. We had an organ.

176 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:57:16pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Are you ***ing Matt Damon?

No. Bitch never returns my phone calls.

177 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:57:18pm

re: #167 realwest

I think the counsel is grandstanding.

As for my personal feelings, that will take too long. Gotta go walk.

BBIAB

178 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:58:15pm

re: #115 David Simon

My point was that as a defense attorney, I would have my hands tied with having to cook up a defense like this lawyer here for a schmuck like him. Whereas a DA can look at a case and say "this guy has gotten a bad rap in his life" and act accordingly when it comes to sentencing and plea bargaining. Of course a DA has to have probable cause to even move forward (Nifong didn't obviously didn't have that and that's why he lost his license). A DA isn't limited to just the facts in whether or not to move forward in a case:

Age/prior record/characteristics of the defendant
Defendant's cooperation
Extent of harm done
Whether the punishment fits the crime (which is why I'm no longer a big fan of mandatory minimums)
Costs and benefits of a conviction
Overall strength of the case (even if there is probable cause)
Whether a conviction will be an actual deterrence for the defendant

These are all legitimate factors to consider when deciding to move forward. I think there's a lot more freedom to see real justice done for all parties here.

179 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:58:19pm

Scotty pulled the trigger- he should take the consequences like a man.

180 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:59:29pm

re: #166 swamprat
Hi swamprat "Judges more properly are helpers, not punishers. To understand the job, understand the origins."
I see that you've not spent much time in court, eh?
Actually, Federal judges, at all levels, are more apt to fit the description of helpers, because they are appointed for life, and can only lose their jobs through impeachment.
State Court Judges, OTOH, especially trial court judges, are usually elected - and a great many of them are politicians, which means their first job is to help themselves get re-elected.

181 livefreeor die  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:59:48pm

So...
How 'bout those Mets?

182 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:59:49pm

re: #131 MandyManners

Well I do happen to believe it's a human being at least.

183 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:00:03pm

re: #172 JamesTKirk

I said before that she must have a sense of humor -- she married me.

Well, I must be intelligent -- I married her.

Maybe she is calling the shots and you aren't aware of it. It is a skill that intelligent women have honed over centuries out of necessity.

184 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:01:10pm

re: #173 iceweasel

He puts the "man" in "strawman".

185 livefreeor die  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:01:15pm

re: #183 I am smarter than you

Maybe she is calling the shots and you aren't aware of it. It is a skill that intelligent women have honed over centuries out of necessity.

That theme is behind one of my favorite scenes in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding".

"Thank goodness I have you to help me tie my shoes."

186 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:01:44pm

re: #183 I am smarter than you

Maybe she is calling the shots and you aren't aware of it. It is a skill that intelligent women have honed over centuries out of necessity.

She tried keeping me barefoot and pregnant, but it just didn't work out somehow.

187 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:02:35pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

We were a very High Church Reform synagogue. The rabbis wore robes, and no yarmulkes. We had an organ.

We did too growing up. Funny though. Our rabbi didn't Bat Mitzvah girls. He said it wasn't within tradition. Granted, it's not within Orthodox tradition, but Reform? My mother always thought he had an anti-women prejudice and I think she was right.

Many Reform synagogues are leaning far more conservative these days.

188 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:03:18pm

re: #186 JamesTKirk

She tried keeping me barefoot and pregnant, but it just didn't work out somehow.

Feet too furry for "barefoot" Bilbo?

189 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:03:22pm

re: #171 swamprat

Whoa! 2 downdings!
I tell ya, it's a tough room, tough room!

/rodney dangerswamp

190 Irenicum  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:03:24pm

re: #114 calcajun

Um, AoG churches are not the same thing as Army of God, Sometimes they can be the same, but the issues are quite distinct. AoG (Assembly of God) is focused on Pentacostal issues and can leave other issues as secondary. Army of God churches are focused singularly on abortion as the ONLY moral issue. Everything they see is filtered through the lens of that particular political lens. It distorts everything they see. Thus they end up being an easy pawn of the far right. It's typical of any group that agrees to be co-opted by a chance to share the pie.

191 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:03:49pm

re: #187 marjoriemoon
Good evening! "Many Reform synagogues are leaning far more conservative these days." Why do you think that's happening?

192 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:04:11pm

re: #145 iceweasel

A woman's place is in the house...

and the Senate.

And anywhere else she damn well pleases. :)

Some are even getting behind the wheel of a car these days :

Youtube Video

Where will it end?

193 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:04:28pm

Hmm. Well, I heard a rumor that the OT minimum is 100 posts. So on that theory:

It's Saturday night and I'm mildly pissed (in the British sense). Vinho verde in the summertime. And sausage, and cheese, of a sort.

So I thought I'd replay this little ditty from the other night, LNDT, where it didn't get much play.

Lady's name is Joan Anderson, though she won her fame as Joni Mitchell. This is from a 1965 Canuck teevee show. (She's from Saskatoon.)

Best line: "...and I'm as honest as a Denver gal can be."

The part about taking off her shirt to draw the cowboys is also pretty good.

Watch the facial expressions. She's an actress/singer. A natural.

Without further ado:

Youtube Video
194 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:04:29pm

re: #191 realwest

Good evening! "Many Reform synagogues are leaning far more conservative these days." Why do you think that's happening?

Jews becoming more in touch with their Judaism.

195 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:04:40pm

re: #154 calcajun

See mine @ 139

See my #149. Oh wait, you did.

Point is, I think "lawyer" is the most overly and unfairly demonized profession there is, more so even than abortion doctors.

I get your point, for sure, but I just find is incredibly (ironic maybe?) that a lawyer would talk about bag limits on another profession, considering how much shit lawyers get about theirs.

Such as...

196 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:04:40pm

re: #188 I am smarter than you

Feet too furry for "barefoot" Bilbo?

Not just my feet. I remind her of Ron Jeremy (in several ways).

197 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:04:58pm

re: #184 I am smarter than you

He puts the "man" in "strawman".

Typical. The phallocentric oppressors are everywhere, my sister! :)

198 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:05:17pm

re: #180 realwest


Don't doubt it.

199 livefreeor die  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:05:59pm

re: #196 JamesTKirk

Not just my feet. I remind her of Ron Jeremy (in several ways).

You write sappy poetry and live in a sewer?

200 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:06:11pm

re: #189 swamprat

Whoa! 2 downdings!
I tell ya, it's a tough room, tough room!

/rodney dangerswamp

Now that was funny.

201 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:06:11pm

re: #193 Cato the Elder

Wow, vintage Joni Mitchell. Pretty cool. I have various Court & Spark tunes on my IPod!

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:06:15pm

re: #187 marjoriemoon

We did too growing up. Funny though. Our rabbi didn't Bat Mitzvah girls. He said it wasn't within tradition. Granted, it's not within Orthodox tradition, but Reform? My mother always thought he had an anti-women prejudice and I think she was right.

Many Reform synagogues are leaning far more conservative these days.

SInce the first banot mitzvah in Reform synagogues took place in the 1930s, I would argue he was a little behind the times.

The veer is to the more religiously conservative right now, (or the more religiously Judaic--we went through some years of pretending to be Episcopalians) but generally I think resistance to women's full inclusion is going down, even in communities where the Hebrew and the musaf is going up.

The haredim are a whole different issue, of course.

203 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:06:33pm

re: #193 Cato the Elder

Hmm. Well, I heard a rumor that the OT minimum is 100 posts.

What does that mean, precisely -- that we have to wait until comment #101 before veering off-topic?

Ooops.

Big-time ooops.

A lot.

204 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:07:31pm

re: #193 Cato the Elder

Hmm. Well, I heard a rumor that the OT minimum is 100 posts.

Really? Then it's not enforced very well.

205 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:07:48pm

re: #194 marjoriemoon
If Jews - well, American Jews, anyway, are becoming more in touch with their Judaism, does that affect, do you think, the way they regard Israel and the relationship between Israel and the United States?

206 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:07:59pm

re: #199 livefreeor die

You write sappy poetry and live in a sewer?

And I'm defenseless against hamster-style martial arts.

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:08:02pm

re: #204 Sharmuta

Really? Then it's not enforced very well.

It's more of a guideline, really...

208 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:08:09pm

re: #203 JamesTKirk

What does that mean, precisely -- that we have to wait until comment #101 before veering off-topic?

Ooops.

Big-time ooops.

A lot.

Easy, there. You haven't gotten the stick, have you?

I think it's just some Made Up Etiquette by a Miss Manners type, if you catch my drift...

209 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:08:25pm

re: #197 iceweasel

Typical. The phallocentric oppressors are everywhere, my sister! :)

So true.

I try to avoid using long sentences or well structured arguments - it only confuses them and makes them angry.

Then there are the fetishists who are attracted to smart women who put them down.

210 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:08:44pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

It's more of a guideline, really...

A courtesy?

211 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:08:56pm

re: #196 JamesTKirk

Not just my feet. I remind her of Ron Jeremy (in several ways).

Fat and stupid?

212 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:09:11pm

re: #205 realwest

If Jews - well, American Jews, anyway, are becoming more in touch with their Judaism, does that affect, do you think, the way they regard Israel and the relationship between Israel and the United States?

Depends -- in getting more in touch with actual Judaism, are they getting less in touch with slavishly following all Democratic talking points?

213 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:09:36pm

re: #193 Cato the Elder

The grateful dead do that song also

214 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:09:54pm

re: #208 Cato the Elder

Easy, there. You haven't gotten the stick, have you?

Nope. Not even in bed. From Matt Damon.

215 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:10:16pm

re: #209 I am smarter than you

Then there are the fetishists who are attracted to smart women who put them down.

...Mistresses' rates for verbal humiliation are going up...//

216 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:10:37pm

re: #173 iceweasel

I never said abortion was murder, and I guess you'll continue to make presumptions about what I believe as well. Just because I want abortion restricted, it doesn't mean I consider the act "murder" in the legal sense. Oh and I did address your points about other ideals and goals within the movement. But I guess since you decided to "end the discussion" at the first sentence, you probably didn't see that. The lawyer's defense strategy falls apart unless he can somehow prove that Tiller was performing an abortion outside of his church. From this reply it looks like you're guilty of your allegations against me. If you're willing to stop making false accusations, then I'm all for a dialog.

217 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:11:44pm

re: #193 Cato the Elder

And my little verse add-on

Chorus:

And we all wonder what,
All wonder what,
All wonder what kinda
"Uncle" was heee?

honi soit qui mal y pense

218 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:11:59pm

re: #212 JamesTKirk

Depends -- in getting more in touch with actual Judaism, are they getting less in touch with slavishly following all Democratic talking points?


Well ok, that's another way of putting it, I suppose.

219 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:12:08pm

re: #158 realwest

Hi realwest, I'm fine, a little warm around the edges.
How Are you doing? *waves*

220 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:12:12pm

re: #214 JamesTKirk

Nope. Not even in bed. From Matt Damon.

in bed

221 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:12:17pm

re: #214 JamesTKirk

Backing away slowly...

222 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:13:20pm

re: #211 I am smarter than you

Fat and stupid?

Ha! Loves it.

223 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:13:46pm

re: #215 calcajun

...Mistresses' rates for verbal humiliation are going up...//


Looking at stocks...how do I invest?

224 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:14:04pm

re: #206 JamesTKirk

And I'm defenseless against hamster-style martial arts.

...in bed. ;)

You are really cracking me up tonight!

225 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:14:30pm

re: #219 Floral Giraffe
Hey there {floral Giraffe} - what no hugs tonight?!
And what did ya mean by a little warm around the edges? Do y'all live in or near L.A.?!

226 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:14:49pm

re: #22 iceweasel

A recent event from Colorado:

Suspect to plead not guilty to threatening abortion doc

Donald Hertz is charged with phoning in a death threat against Dr. Warren Hern of Boulder and his family.

Posted: 08/28/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 08/28/2009 01:57:04 AM MDT

Donald Hertz intends to plead not guilty to charges he threatened to kill the family of a Boulder abortion provider, Hertz's attorney said Thursday.

The 70-year-old retired real estate broker and insurance salesman from Spokane, Wash., was charged with calling in the threat to the medical office of Dr. Warren Hern, one of the only doctors in the country who provide late-term abortions.

Russell Van Camp, Hertz's lawyer, declined to say whether Hertz made a phone call to Hern's office but called the charges "bizarre" and said he intends to vigorously defend his client.

A federal grand jury in Denver indicted Hertz on two counts — making a phone threat to Hern's office June 23 and violating the Free Access to Clinic Entrances Act, or FACE.

Hertz is the first person indicted under the 1994 FACE Act since the May 31 murder of Dr. George Tiller, a late-term abortion provider who was gunned down in his Wichita church. The U.S. Marshals Service and the FBI increased security for abortion providers nationwide after the fatal shooting.

"Mr. Hertz is a very well-respected member of the Spokane community and very successful business person," Van Camp said. "He has been pro-life ever since Roe vs. Wade came out, but he is not a rabid activist at all."

Van Camp said Hertz is not a member of any organized anti-abortion groups and does not have a criminal record of violence. He said his client was familiar with Hern because he had read an article about the doctor in a Spokane newspaper that he did not agree with.

He declined to say whether the article inspired Hertz to make a threat.

...

227 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:15:49pm

re: #211 I am smarter than you

Fat and stupid?

"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

228 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:16:20pm

re: #216 Ron Bacardi

I never said abortion was murder, and I guess you'll continue to make presumptions about what I believe as well. Just because I want abortion restricted, it doesn't mean I consider the act "murder" in the legal sense. Oh and I did address your points about other ideals and goals within the movement. But I guess since you decided to "end the discussion" at the first sentence, you probably didn't see that. The lawyer's defense strategy falls apart unless he can somehow prove that Tiller was performing an abortion outside of his church. From this reply it looks like you're guilty of your allegations against me. If you're willing to stop making false accusations, then I'm all for a dialog.

Settle down a little friend. You're throwing allegations yourself. I'm pro-life but I do know that once you accuse, there is no dialog. Let's approach this issue calmly. It's a very important issue, I know, but that makes calmness all the more important.

229 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:16:23pm

re: #209 I am smarter than you

So true.

I try to avoid using long sentences or well structured arguments - it only confuses them and makes them angry.

Then there are the fetishists who are attracted to smart women who put them down.

There are also the fetishists who are attracted to smart women in order to put them down.

Fortunately I run across the first set far more than the latter. Works for me!

230 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:16:39pm

By the way, I'm pullin' a Mondagreen.

If anyone can tell me what Joni sings after "...starts a friendly game..." I'd be grateful.

231 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:16:48pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

SInce the first banot mitzvah in Reform synagogues took place in the 1930s, I would argue he was a little behind the times.

The veer is to the more religiously conservative right now, (or the more religiously Judaic--we went through some years of pretending to be Episcopalians) but generally I think resistance to women's full inclusion is going down, even in communities where the Hebrew and the musaf is going up.

The haredim are a whole different issue, of course.

Agreed about the role of women.

Shabbot, of course, is the most important ritual observance in Judaism. (Our Friday night ritual to those not aware). And that is exclusively given to women.

Also Chabad is everywhere now, in many countries and cities which is a great thing, helping less religious Jews become more religious.

232 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:16:49pm

The Necessity Defense:

The necessity defense has been used with sporadic and very limited success in the area of civil disobedience since the 1970s. The most common circumstances involve public protests against Abortion, Nuclear Power, and Nuclear Weapons. Virtually all abortion protesters who have tried to avail themselves of the defense have lost. The courts have reasoned that because the right to an abortion is constitutionally protected, it cannot simultaneously be a legally recognized harm justifying illegal action.
[Link: legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...]

Scott Roeder - guilty of murder in the first degree. Indefensible.

233 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:17:35pm

re: #229 iceweasel

Fortunately I run across the first set far more than the latter. Works for me!

In bed?

234 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:17:49pm

re: #227 JamesTKirk

"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

Although it apparently is a way to go through the Senate...

235 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:18:16pm

re: #226 Gus 802

A recent event from Colorado:

Suspect to plead not guilty to threatening abortion doc

Donald Hertz is charged with phoning in a death threat against Dr. Warren Hern of Boulder and his family.

Posted: 08/28/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 08/28/2009 01:57:04 AM MDT

Charming. Failing with reason, the jerk turns to threats. The grand jury was right to indict him. He needs some jail time to reflect on his actions.

236 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:18:51pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

I feel like I'm being fairly calm about it but if the way I'm writing my replies aren't showing that then I sincerely apologize.

237 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:18:56pm

re: #205 realwest

If Jews - well, American Jews, anyway, are becoming more in touch with their Judaism, does that affect, do you think, the way they regard Israel and the relationship between Israel and the United States?

Contrary to popular belief, most Jews DO support Israel. And most certainly Jews who are concerned about their religious beliefs.

Israel, the Land, and Judaism cannot be separated. It's a part of everything we are. When God spoke to "Israel", he was speaking to the Jews.

238 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:18:56pm

re: #234 JamesTKirk

Dude, its too soon.

239 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:19:03pm

re: #224 iceweasel

You are really cracking me up tonight!

Well, there's nothing a man likes more than to have strange women laughing at him.

No, wait... is that another fetish? There are so many it's hard to keep track.

240 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:20:03pm

re: #236 Ron Bacardi

I feel like I'm being fairly calm about it but if the way I'm writing my replies aren't showing that then I sincerely apologize.

Apology accepted. Now, you said you favored some restrictions on abortions. What limits would you set and why?

241 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:20:59pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

Charming. Failing with reason, the jerk turns to threats. The grand jury was right to indict him. He needs some jail time to reflect on his actions.

Yes. He was indicted by a grand jury last week. Now he claims to be innocent. Of course the is innocent until proven guilty but considering his background what else can one think. He faces a $350,000 fine and 6 years in jail.

242 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:21:45pm

re: #229 iceweasel

There are also the fetishists who are attracted to smart women in order to put them down.

Fortunately I run across the first set far more than the latter. Works for me!

You mean that being a Department Head in a University is considered a fetish?

Makes sense.

243 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:22:40pm

re: #209 I am smarter than you

I await your exegesis on the clitorophallic zwitternatur of the guitar.

244 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:23:23pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon
Uh, I think perhaps you are making a few assumptions there - a decent DA or Fed prosecutor could get a ham sandwich indicted.
Based upon his lawyer's statements, it would seem to have been anomalous for him to make the threats he's been indicting for making.
I think, perhaps, we ought to withhold judgment here until some evidence is presented in a court room.

245 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:23:29pm

re: #242 I am smarter than you

You mean that being a Department Head in a University is considered a fetish?

Makes sense.

Why don't we just make a list of everything that isn't considered a fetish.

246 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:23:40pm

re: #178 Ron Bacardi

You seem more reasonable than I initially thought, but this statement troubles me:

a DA can look at a case and say "this guy has gotten a bad rap in his life" and act accordingly when it comes to sentencing and plea bargaining

I think that's a tortured reading of the Equal Protection Clause. Wasn't its purpose to make us all equal (rich, poor, black, white etc.)?

247 blueherron  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:23:50pm

re: #230 Cato the Elder

Hi Lo Jacks and the winner takes the hand.

248 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:24:01pm

re: #226 Gus 802

Terrific find Gus. I hadn't heard about that.

I'd recommend people take a look at this chart depicting abortion-related violence. Did you know Tiller's was the first murder since 1998? It's no coincidence that there was a wave of violence in the 90's under clinton and a complete cessation under Bush. The cycle is on the upswing again under a new Dem admin. We can expect much more violence.

The chart depicts only bombings, shootings, and murders -- not phone threats, breakins, vandalism. All of those activities have dramatically increased as well under Obama, after dropping off sharply under Bush.

Here's the full post for those interested, it provides a link to the PDF where the stats come from.

249 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:24:45pm

re: #245 JamesTKirk

Why don't we just make a list of everything that isn't considered a fetish.

In bed?

250 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:24:49pm

re: #245 JamesTKirk

Why don't we just make a list of everything that isn't considered a fetish.

Peanut butter? No, wait, never mind.

251 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:25:48pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

Well to get down to it, I'd like to see Roe overturned and let the States set their own policy with regards to abortion. If it were my State, I'd want to see abortion restricted with exceptions for rape, incest, and threats on the life of the mother. I say "life" not "health" because the definition of "health" has been interpreted so broadly that current trimester restrictions are practically meaningless.

252 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:26:29pm

re: #245 JamesTKirk

Why don't we just make a list of everything that isn't considered a fetish.

Oh, I know, ice cu... aw damnit! I'll think of something.

253 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:26:31pm

re: #201 marjoriemoon

Like your hamsa, by the way.

You know it's common to Jews and Muslims, right? Always thought that was kinda cool.

254 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:27:01pm

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, I know, ice cu... aw damnit! I'll think of something.

Yeah, I know! I haven't thought of a single thing yet either!

255 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:27:36pm

re: #247 blueherron

Hi Lo Jacks and the winner takes the hand.

Deep bow. I'm obviously not a card player. Waiting for Avanti to introduce this virgin to a casino.

256 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:28:13pm

re: #230 Cato the Elder

here

257 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:29:18pm

re: #248 iceweasel

Terrific find Gus. I hadn't heard about that.

I'd recommend people take a look at this chart depicting abortion-related violence. Did you know Tiller's was the first murder since 1998? It's no coincidence that there was a wave of violence in the 90's under clinton and a complete cessation under Bush. The cycle is on the upswing again under a new Dem admin. We can expect much more violence.

The chart depicts only bombings, shootings, and murders -- not phone threats, breakins, vandalism. All of those activities have dramatically increased as well under Obama, after dropping off sharply under Bush.

Here's the full post for those interested, it provides a link to the PDF where the stats come from.

Good chart which looks rather accurate. Considering the recent chatter and general alarmist rhetoric occurring not only with the abortion debate but the general political atmosphere the next several year may prove rather troubling.

It looks to me as if though in addition to Carhart being subject to terroristic threats that this case of Dr. Hern may well add him to the list and subject him to the homicidal threats from the likes of the Army of God, et al.

258 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:29:32pm

re: #255 Cato the Elder

Deep bow. I'm obviously not a card player. Waiting for Avanti to introduce this virgin to a casino.

Your best odds are at blackjack, although the biggest single win I ever made was $180 on a single spin of the roulette wheel.

I haven't found a single casino yet that will let me play Fizzbin.

259 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:29:34pm

re: #246 David Simon
Um, actually it has nothing at all to do with The "Equal Protection Clause" and everything to do with prosecutorial discretion.
DA's can find in the particular facts of a case, reason not to throw the book at a defendent and indeed, in some cases choose not to bring charges at all against someone.

260 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:29:51pm

re: #225 realwest

It's hot in LA. 85 in the house right now & I'm near the coast, where it's cooler.

I'm so far behind on this thread.

261 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:29:56pm

re: #243 Cato the Elder

I await your exegesis on the clitorophallic zwitternatur of the guitar.

The guitar really isn't in any way "hybrid" or androgynous.

Look at any boy playing "air guitar" and think about what they are really doing. Alles klar?

Anyway - I will have to be going. Early morning. I am getting ready to sue Apple and am meeting at breakfast with an old friend who is an attorney.

They crossed the line with "Snow Leopard".

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:29:59pm

re: #251 Ron Bacardi

I say "life" not "health" because the definition of "health" has been interpreted so broadly that current trimester restrictions are practically meaningless.

So the health of the mother is irrelevent? Just so we're pretty sure she won't actually die?

263 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:30:32pm

re: #251 Ron Bacardi

Well to get down to it, I'd like to see Roe overturned and let the States set their own policy with regards to abortion. If it were my State, I'd want to see abortion restricted with exceptions for rape, incest, and threats on the life of the mother. I say "life" not "health" because the definition of "health" has been interpreted so broadly that current trimester restrictions are practically meaningless.

Well, I'd recommend at minimum adding an additional exception for a serious risk of permanent injury. No restrictions are good if they force a woman to risk severe injury. Verification requirements could be used to prevent any such rule from being stretched into meaninglessness.

264 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:31:55pm

re: #254 JamesTKirk

Yeah, I know! I haven't thought of a single thing yet either!

Yeah. The thing is, no matter how simple or innocent that thing is that you like to mix into your sex life once in a while, there will always be some sexually repressed, busy body freak that will point to it and call it a pathological fetish.

There are some out there that think anything but the missionary position is a dirty sin. I pity them.

265 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:32:33pm

re: #255 Cato the Elder

Deep bow. I'm obviously not a card player. Waiting for Avanti to introduce this virgin to a casino.

now it's high-low jacks and the winner takes the gains

266 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:32:40pm

re: #248 iceweasel

I'd recommend people take a look at this chart depicting abortion-related violence. Did you know Tiller's was the first murder since 1998? It's no coincidence that there was a wave of violence in the 90's under clinton and a complete cessation under Bush.

Post 9/11, every time someone in the media/on the left mentioned Islamic violence, they had to throw in a comment about Christians and abortion clinic bombings, as a sort of moral equivalence excuse. I used to point out how many acts of Islamic violence vs. how many abortion clinic bombings were occurring on an annual, monthly, or even weekly basis; but that never stopped anyone from talking as if they were equally frequent.

267 sngnsgt  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:32:42pm

re: #258 JamesTKirk

Your best odds are at blackjack, although the biggest single win I ever made was $180 on a single spin of the roulette wheel.

I haven't found a single casino yet that will let me play Fizzbin.

Illogical.

268 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:33:01pm

re: #259 realwest

Um, actually it has nothing at all to do with The "Equal Protection Clause" and everything to do with prosecutorial discretion.
DA's can find in the particular facts of a case, reason not to throw the book at a defendent and indeed, in some cases choose not to bring charges at all against someone.

Yeah, that's my point. See Ron's post #178.

269 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:33:18pm

re: #201 marjoriemoon

Wow, vintage Joni Mitchell. Pretty cool. I have various Court & Spark tunes on my IPod!

It's a bitchin' little song, ain't it? And ever since I saw Joni, blonde + overbite = wannado.

270 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:33:30pm

re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth

There are some out there that think anything but the missionary position is a dirty sin. I pity them.

There are those who think that even that is a sin.

271 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:33:53pm

re: #253 Cato the Elder

Like your hamsa, by the way.

You know it's common to Jews and Muslims, right? Always thought that was kinda cool.

Yaaa... actually, I never quite understood why we didn't get along. We are much more alike culturally than Jews are with Christians.

My mother sent me an email the other day. She belongs to a group called Kulanu which means All of Us, dedicated to finding Jews in odd places. The article she sent me was about how 90% of the Arabs living in Gaza and the W.B. were initially Jews forced to convert to Islam centuries ago. Let me see if I can find it. It's long. Very interesting.

One of the stories was how when a Jewish woman married an Arab man, they would remove her breasts so that she wouldn't give Jewish milk to her babies. An Arab fellow, upon learning of this, realized his mother was Jewish, and he, in fact, was Jewish.

272 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:34:24pm

re: #246 David Simon

Thats the exception to those factors I listed. A prosecutor cannot prosecute (or decide not to prosecute) solely based on age, sex, race, religion, etc.

My point with that example would in a sense be that if for example I have a case with some 16 year old kid with a clean record and straight A's who got caught being stupid with some victimless crime, do I want to ruin his future forever by sending him to jail for 3 years, or do I cut him a break with a suspended sentence?

273 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:34:51pm

GGB

274 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:35:04pm

re: #270 JamesTKirk

There are those who think that even that is a sin.

I'll wager they consider foreplay the tool of the devil as well.

275 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:35:17pm

re: #270 JamesTKirk

There are those who think that even that is a sin.

Not everybody does it, but everybody should.

in bed

276 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:35:24pm

re: #30 Last Mohican

Well-stated, and I agree with everything you said, except


I think "the right wing" is too inclusive there. There are certainly sickening, violent thugs like those of Operation Rescue who are gathering in Nebraska and would like to murder Cathcart. But those people do not include everyone to the right of center.

Iceweasel's every post is a condemnation of anything GOP, "right," or remotely non-left. Don't look to this one for rational assessment of the issue at hand.

That said, let's bury Hirsh and Roeder. Murderous fanatics are not welcome in my country.

277 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:35:29pm

re: #269 Cato the Elder

It's a bitchin' little song, ain't it? And ever since I saw Joni, blonde + overbite = wannado.

hehe She was certainly the quintessential 60's gal.

278 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:35:37pm

re: #251 Ron Bacardi

Well to get down to it, I'd like to see Roe overturned and let the States set their own policy with regards to abortion. If it were my State, I'd want to see abortion restricted with exceptions for rape, incest, and threats on the life of the mother. I say "life" not "health" because the definition of "health" has been interpreted so broadly that current trimester restrictions are practically meaningless.

A ngative health condition doesn't always result in an immediate threat to life. There are many medical conditions which do not result in immediate death so to set a condition of an immediate threat to life would not be reasonable.

279 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:35:56pm

Now that I (sort of) have an income again, I went to one of the casinos nearby last weekend. I bet small, I won small...

280 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:36:19pm

re: #273 I am smarter than you

May your dreams be filled with 8s and 3s.

281 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:36:52pm

re: #274 Slumbering Behemoth

I'll wager they consider foreplay the tool of the devil as well.

No, those types don't know what foreplay IS.

282 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:36:59pm

re: #275 swamprat

Not everybody does it, but everybody should.

in bed in the kitchen

BTFY

283 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:37:22pm

C'mon, people, I think "clitorophallic zwitternatur" deserves at least a case of vinho verde. What's wrong with you all tonight?

284 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:37:28pm

re: #276 garycooper

Gary, that was snarky, insulting, and untrue. Down Ding.

285 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:37:32pm

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

I can agree with that. Again my point with "health" is that it's been interpreted to the point where "financial health" is within the definition.

286 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:38:12pm

BTW folks, the real issue with the proposed defense is this:

By claiming justifiable homicide they are attempting to introduce the notion that abortion is murder or the taking of a life. This is a backdoor attempt to reify their theocratic agenda. It is nothing more or less than an attempt to get fetuses awarded the status of persons-- which would entitle them to rights and protections, and ultimately pave the way to outlawing abortion.

That's the strategy going on underneath what may at first seem to be a ludicrous defense. There is a reason why he used it in the Hill case, and why it's being introduced again here despite its failure there.

It's all about the reification of their ultimate agenda. It always is, with these people.

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:38:28pm

I'm heading out. Night all.

288 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:38:54pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm heading out. Night all.

Good night. I've overdue for bed myself.

...in bed.

289 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:39:17pm

Hey Night Lizards!

So murdering an abortion doctor falls under Good Samaritan laws? Is that the thinking?

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

290 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:39:25pm

re: #271 marjoriemoon

Yaaa... actually, I never quite understood why we didn't get along. We are much more alike culturally than Jews are with Christians.

My mother sent me an email the other day. She belongs to a group called Kulanu which means All of Us, dedicated to finding Jews in odd places. The article she sent me was about how 90% of the Arabs living in Gaza and the W.B. were initially Jews forced to convert to Islam centuries ago. Let me see if I can find it. It's long. Very interesting.

One of the stories was how when a Jewish woman married an Arab man, they would remove her breasts so that she wouldn't give Jewish milk to her babies. An Arab fellow, upon learning of this, realized his mother was Jewish, and he, in fact, was Jewish.

Cato, this is it here.

291 marwan's daughter  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:39:29pm

Time for some Mott The Hoople

Youtube Video
292 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:40:27pm

re: #272 Ron Bacardi

Thats the exception to those factors I listed. A prosecutor cannot prosecute (or decide not to prosecute) solely based on age, sex, race, religion, etc.

My point with that example would in a sense be that if for example I have a case with some 16 year old kid with a clean record and straight A's who got caught being stupid with some victimless crime, do I want to ruin his future forever by sending him to jail for 3 years, or do I cut him a break with a suspended sentence?

Which is perfectly reasonable. Here's the problem: Another DA comes along and decides that a kid with an unclean record and straight Fs got a raw deal in life, and decides to cut him some slack.

293 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:40:33pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist


Fare thee well, Zionist of the Northern California Metropolitan Area persuasion...

294 freetoken  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:40:35pm

re: #260 Floral Giraffe

Yup, some new record highs up in your area:

[Link: www.wrh.noaa.gov...]

and down in mine:

[Link: www.wrh.noaa.gov...]

though not as many as yesterday.

295 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:40:59pm

re: #289 ggt

Hey Night Lizards!

So murdering an abortion doctor falls under Good Samaritan laws? Is that the thinking?

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

We're trying to determine whether or not killing an abortion doctor is a fetish. In bed.

296 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:41:39pm

I love Joni, have since I was a kid. My dear departed older brother had her early albums, and when he died of OD, after his tour in Vietnam, they passed on to me. I've never seen this video, or anything else of her so young. It's stunning.

297 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:42:02pm

re: #279 Fenway_Nation

Now that I (sort of) have an income again, I went to one of the casinos nearby last weekend. I bet small, I won small...

Glad you won. My minis got done last night and my game went well, even though my side lost. I played well and people genuinely enjoyed spending time with me. The one political factor was that one the gamers in the store was an SEIU member, who was wearing their purple "health care" shirts. That lead to an interesting, but civil conversation.

298 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:42:05pm

re: #295 JamesTKirk

We're trying to determine whether or not killing an abortion doctor is a fetish. In bed.

It seems to qualify for some diagnosis, I agree.

How are things on the bridge? Or are you officially retired?

299 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:42:39pm

re: #261 I am smarter than you

The guitar really isn't in any way "hybrid" or androgynous.

Look at any boy playing "air guitar" and think about what they are really doing. Alles klar?

Anyway - I will have to be going. Early morning. I am getting ready to sue Apple and am meeting at breakfast with an old friend who is an attorney.

They crossed the line with "Snow Leopard".

You're losing your touch (as it were).

Yeah, we can see what he's strokin', but what is it he's ticklin'? And what of the term "guitar licks"? Can you ignore that?

I think your heteromalicious womachinations are about to be exposed for the clitorocentric phallusies they are!

300 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:43:26pm

re: #286 iceweasel

You're on a roll tonight!
Go Iceweasel Go!

301 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:43:34pm

re: #286 iceweasel

BTW folks, the real issue with the proposed defense is this:

By claiming justifiable homicide they are attempting to introduce the notion that abortion is murder or the taking of a life. This is a backdoor attempt to reify their theocratic agenda. It is nothing more or less than an attempt to get fetuses awarded the status of persons-- which would entitle them to rights and protections, and ultimately pave the way to outlawing abortion.

That's the strategy going on underneath what may at first seem to be a ludicrous defense. There is a reason why he used it in the Hill case, and why it's being introduced again here despite its failure there.

It's all about the reification of their ultimate agenda. It always is, with these people.

Quite Concur.

302 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:43:43pm

re: #268 David Simon
Well then I must have read his AND your posts incorrectly.
Sorry 'bout that.

303 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:44:08pm

Kid is watching the Coast Guard movie The Guardian --Ashton Kutcher and Kevin Kostner. As much as I admire the Coast Guard, the movie is lame. They deserve better.

304 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:44:25pm

re: #298 ggt

How are things on the bridge? Or are you officially retired?

No retired, but off-duty at the moment.

305 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:44:29pm

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Gary, that was snarky, insulting, and untrue. Down Ding.

Just my impression, DF. Ding-dong, who gives a f--- what I think?

306 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:45:07pm

re: #302 realwest

You might apologize to me, too.

307 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:45:08pm

re: #303 ggt

Kid is watching the Coast Guard movie The Guardian --Ashton Kutcher and Kevin Kostner. As much as I admire the Coast Guard, the movie is lame. They deserve better.

See, the very presence of Ashton Kutcher and Kevin Kostner meant that I would never see that movie in the first place.

308 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:45:14pm

re: #292 David Simon

I see your point. Prosecutors are ultimately human too. I love the first quote in my crim pro book:

"You will wield an amount of power over people's lives entirely disproportionate to your age and experience. Don't let it go to your heads."
- An experiences prosecutor's advice to new assistant district attorney's in New York City.

309 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:45:17pm

re: #276 garycooper

Iceweasel's every post is a condemnation of anything GOP, "right," or remotely non-left. Don't look to this one for rational assessment of the issue at hand.

False. If you have an actual objection to make to any of my points or positions, you would make it. Instead you resort to invective and blanket condemnation of all my statements-- and only because they are (according to you) purely left viewpoints. Newsflash: "left" is not synonymous with false no matter how much you would like it to be, and this is the kind of place where you have to argue for your claim, not assert it.

I'd say you're the one who's incapable of rational assessment.

310 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:45:33pm

re: #306 Cato the Elder

You might apologize to me, too.

In bed.

311 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:46:11pm

re: #283 Cato the Elder

C'mon, people, I think "clitorophallic zwitternatur" deserves at least a case of vinho verde. What's wrong with you all tonight?

Down-ding!

LOL!

312 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:46:22pm

re: #290 marjoriemoon

Bookmarked, mille grazie. You think you know a bunch of stuff and you don't know nothing. Kiss.

313 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:46:36pm

re: #307 JamesTKirk

See, the very presence of Ashton Kutcher and Kevin Kostner meant that I would never see that movie in the first place.

I'm sitting in the same room as the kid. I feel it is a privilege when he asks me to watch a movie with him. Teenagers don't stick around long.

314 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:46:51pm

re: #303 ggt


Ashton Kucher and 'Lame' belong in the same sentence.

The Coast Guard and 'Lame' don't even belong in the same ZIP code...

315 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:47:03pm

re: #310 JamesTKirk

In bed.

Cato is not a blue skinned alien woman. Keep your hands off of him.

/oog

316 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:47:25pm

re: #309 iceweasel

gary's comment is also pretty funny considering our friendship, iDub. I found it laughable.

317 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:47:40pm

re: #300 Floral Giraffe

You're on a roll tonight!
Go Iceweasel Go!

Cheers, FG! ;)

Yeah, this is one of my issues...

318 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:47:50pm

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

Do you ever not concur with Iceweasel?

Just wonderin'.

319 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:48:07pm

re: #314 Fenway_Nation

Ashton Kucher and 'Lame' belong in the same sentence.

The Coast Guard and 'Lame' don't even belong in the same ZIP code...

Like I said, they deserved a better movie in their honor.

320 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:48:31pm

re: #310 JamesTKirk

In bed.

In Hell!

321 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:48:51pm

re: #302 realwest

Well then I must have read his AND your posts incorrectly.
Sorry 'bout that.

No need to apologize. There's nothing better than a spirited debate, my friend.

322 I am smarter than you  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:48:57pm

re: #299 Cato the Elder

Muffled cries of injustice dictate that I must respond.

So the man in this picture is in touch with his feminine side?

Who are you - Carl Jung?

323 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:49:44pm

re: #314 Fenway_Nation

Ashton Kucher and 'Lame' belong in the same sentence.

He was actually good in "The Butterfly Effect", which surprised the heck out of me. (I saw that the same week I saw Ben Affleck in "Paycheck"; I barely survived the shock of seeing both of them actually acting.) However, I would not go out of my way to see anything he was in.

And for many years now I've actively gone out of my way to avoid seeing anything with Kevin Costner in it.

324 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:49:59pm

re: #318 garycooper

What's with the fetish for ice?

325 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:50:05pm

re: #316 Sharmuta

gary's comment is also pretty funny considering our friendship, iDub. I found it laughable.

I find you laughable, Sharming.

Very.

326 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:50:22pm

re: #323 JamesTKirk

He was actually good in "The Butterfly Effect", which surprised the heck out of me. (I saw that the same week I saw Ben Affleck in "Paycheck"; I barely survived the shock of seeing both of them actually acting.) However, I would not go out of my way to see anything he was in.

And for many years now I've actively gone out of my way to avoid seeing anything with Kevin Costner in it.

And Ashton Kutcher. I don't know why but I don't like either of those guys in anything I've seen.

327 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:50:30pm

re: #306 Cato the Elder

You might apologize to me, too.


For what?

328 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:50:39pm

re: #193 Cato the Elder

Oh, and one more thing: her guitar technique is flawless.

[as one classically trained nobody said to a genius]

329 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:50:48pm

re: #319 ggt

Like I said, they deserved a better movie in their honor.

Wasn't there a kinda spiffy scene where the USCG chases down some drug traffickers in a yacht that turns out to have belonged to one of the president's friends who was murdered in the beginning of Clear and Present Danger ?

330 David Simon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:50:50pm

re: #308 Ron Bacardi

I see your point. Prosecutors are ultimately human too. I love the first quote in my crim pro book:

"You will wield an amount of power over people's lives entirely disproportionate to your age and experience. Don't let it go to your heads."
- An experiences prosecutor's advice to new assistant district attorney's in New York City.

Heh, that's great. You seem like a good kid, and I'm sorry that I misjudged you earlier.

331 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:50:51pm

re: #294 freetoken

I was down your way yesterday.
As a friend of mine says "hot sumabitch!"
Stay cool!

332 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:51:02pm

re: #320 garycooper

re: #310 JamesTKirk

In bed.

In Hell!

Same thing, with some of my exes.

333 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:51:18pm

re: #312 Cato the Elder

Bookmarked, mille grazie. You think you know a bunch of stuff and you don't know nothing. Kiss.

My husband tells me, "You're pretty smart for a girl."

I tell him, "You're pretty smart for someone who's not a girl."

Cato, you're pretty smart for someone who's not a girl. Kiss back.

334 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:51:29pm

re: #325 garycooper

You're the one who links to sources citing alex jones, not me.

335 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:51:32pm

re: #310 JamesTKirk

In bed.

?

336 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:51:43pm

re: #315 Dark_Falcon

Cato is not a blue skinned alien woman. Keep your hands off of him.

Green.

337 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:51:55pm

re: #327 realwest

For what?

Thinking you know for sure what the hell I'm thinking about when I write a post.

338 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:52:07pm

re: #329 Fenway_Nation

Wasn't there a kinda spiffy scene where the USCG chases down some drug traffickers in a yacht that turns out to have belonged to one of the president's friends who was murdered in the beginning of Clear and Present Danger ?

huh? I thought it was an incredibly bad remake of the Richard Gere movie, An Officer and a Gentleman, with a Coast Guard theme. Same formula, bad rendition.

339 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:52:22pm

re: #324 Sharmuta

What's with the fetish for ice?

One comment is a "fetish?"

Please. Get a grip.

340 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:52:28pm

re: #318 garycooper

Do you ever not concur with Iceweasel?

Just wonderin'.

I often disagree with iceweasel. But no matter how much I disagree with Sharmuta or iceweasel, I never insult them and they nevr insult me. It's called civility, Gary. You should try it.

341 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:52:34pm

re: #336 JamesTKirk

Green.

You told me you liked us blue skinned girls too, you Cad!

342 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:52:48pm

re: #322 I am smarter than you

So the man in this picture is in touch with his feminine side?

If the rumors are true, he's been in touch with thousands of other peoples' feminine sides.

343 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:52:49pm

Charles, just an update: buttons visuals still wonky.

344 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:52:51pm

re: #77 Jimmah

Hi Iceweasel :) Good to see you!

The words "Gott mit uns" spring to mind.

Hi Jimmah. ;) Missed you there in the heat of the moment. I'm trying to work in an Uber alles joke but brain isn't working.

I have discovered a seekrit tape of the theocratic agenda!

Google Video
345 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:53:02pm

re: #336 JamesTKirk

Green.

Are you insinuating you are eco-conscious?

346 Ron Bacardi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:53:08pm

re: #330 David Simon

It happens, lol.

347 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:53:38pm

re: #338 ggt

At least it didn't have Pauly Shore in it...

348 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:54:40pm

re: #318 garycooper

Do you ever not concur with Iceweasel?

Just wonderin'.

DF and I disagree on many things, and always cordially, because we have mutual respect for each others opinions and intelligence-- maybe even especially when we disagree.

And who made you the thread police?

Just wonderin'.

349 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:54:45pm

re: #341 Sharmuta

You told me you liked us blue skinned girls too, you Cad!

There was Smurfette, but that was just the once.

350 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:56:24pm

re: #332 JamesTKirk

Same thing, with some of my exes.


How many exes do you have, if you don't mind me asking?

I've been with my most excellent wife since December of 1980, and married since 1984. Not bragging or complaining, just saying the truth.

351 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:56:42pm

re: #349 JamesTKirk

I see. I thought I meant more to you than just the one time. *sniff*

You, Cad! I'm going home to Mother! *sob*

352 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:57:10pm

re: #348 iceweasel

And who made you the thread police?

Doesn't sound as exciting as the sex police, tho'...

353 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:57:10pm

re: #349 JamesTKirk

Avatar check, dude.

354 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:57:44pm

re: #353 EmmmieG

Avatar check, dude.

What?

355 swamprat  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:57:52pm

t

re: #335 realwest


running gag

356 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:58:06pm

re: #354 JamesTKirk

What?

You have looked at Sharmuta's avatar, haven't you?

357 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:58:33pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

I see. I thought I meant more to you than just the one time. *sniff*

You, Cad! I'm going home to Mother! *sob*

I thought that Smufette was the product of a failed plot by Gargamel?

/too much too watching cartoons as a kid

358 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:59:13pm

re: #355 swamprat

t


running gag

Ah, seems more like a crawling or barely walking gag, but I'll take your word for it.

359 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:59:48pm

re: #324 Sharmuta

What's with the fetish for ice?

It's a classic example of butthurt, Sharm. I whipped his ass handily in some debate a while ago and he's still seething.

Having nothing of value to contribute to the thread, he has decided to go in for personal attacks, insults, and essentially whine about the fact that he doesn't have anything to contribute on this issue and I clearly do.

Butthurt: An inappropriately strong negative emotional response from a perceived personal insult. Characterized by strong feelings of shame. Frequently associated with a cessation of communication and overt hostility towards the "aggressor."

Basically, if he can derail the thread and turn it into insults about me, or people fighting with him, then he does have something to contribute and he can be all happy again. Internet 101.

Obvious troll is obvious.

360 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:00:28pm

re: #318 garycooper

Do you ever not concur with Iceweasel?

Just wonderin'.

What a laughably ignorant comment.

361 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:00:53pm

re: #350 garycooper

How many exes do you have, if you don't mind me asking?

Haven't run out of fingers counting them.

I've been with my most excellent wife since December of 1980, and married since 1984. Not bragging or complaining, just saying the truth.

You've got quite a few years on me and my wife; but then, neither of us was even at the age of consent yet in 1980.

Congratulations. Always glad to see a couple still happy and together after so long. I know too many people whose marriages have already crashed and burned.

362 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:02:42pm

re: #356 EmmmieG

You have looked at Sharmuta's avatar, haven't you?

I forgot. I have avatars disabled, since they slowed things down so much. (No idea if any of Charles' subsequent hackings have fixed that.) But yeah, I do recall that we had the Smurfette conversation before, once she reminded me.

363 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:03:25pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

I'm going home to Mother!

...in bed.

Dammit, I still haven't come up with a single non-fetish.

364 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:03:39pm

re: #362 JamesTKirk

I forgot. I have avatars disabled, since they slowed things down so much. (No idea if any of Charles' subsequent hackings have fixed that.) But yeah, I do recall that we had the Smurfette conversation before, once she reminded me.

Out of curiosity, if you click on the avatar to bring up the profile, does it show you the avatar?

365 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:04:04pm

re: #360 Jimmah

What a laughably ignorant comment.

Laugh it up, Jimmah! It's good for you. :)

366 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:04:14pm

I can't believe this thread has only 10 positive dings. Get busy Lizards.

367 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:04:18pm

re: #322 I am smarter than you

Muffled cries of injustice dictate that I must respond.

So the man in this picture is in touch with his feminine side?

Who are you - Carl Jung?

Of course not. What school of relativistic hyperredundancy did you attend? I went to Smith, on a phallocompromised affirmative passive action scholarship!

Anyone can see that the KISS guitarist has been seduced by the gynocentric neck of the instrument into a false imaging of its true, inalienable, curvaceous, Venus-of-Willendorf center of cilitoricity! And by the way, "Willendorf" = "Voluntary Village", a womantar of willingness, a plenipotent rereavowal of Joyce's extratemporal "YES"!

Don't play wit me, sista.

368 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:04:27pm

re: #363 JamesTKirk

...in bed.

Dammit, I still haven't come up with a single non-fetish.

Same. I'm stumped.

369 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:04:43pm

re: #358 realwest

Ah, seems more like a crawling or barely walking gag, but I'll take your word for it.

It's my fault. You know how fortune cookies are supposed to be funnier if you add "in bed" to the end of the fortune contained therein? A week or so ago I noted that the same applied to a number of LGF comments. That observation was repeated today, and quickly got out of hand.

370 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:05:34pm

re: #359 iceweasel

Basically, if he can derail the thread and turn it into insults about me, or people fighting with him, then he does have something to contribute and he can be all happy again. Internet 101.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Gary's not a full-on troll. He's just a sore loser. However, he should stop going after you. Charles doesn't like bullies or assholes. If he keeps it up, don't hesitate to hit the 'report' button.

371 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:05:37pm

re: #369 JamesTKirk

It's my fault. You know how fortune cookies are supposed to be funnier if you add "in bed" to the end of the fortune contained therein? A week or so ago I noted that the same applied to a number of LGF comments. That observation was repeated today, and quickly got out of hand.

I really shouldn't know this, but "In the bathtub" works quite well.

372 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:06:37pm

re: #364 EmmmieG

Out of curiosity, if you click on the avatar to bring up the profile, does it show you the avatar?

Yes. I see a little green football next to everybody's name; but if I bring up the profile (which I almost never do, since there's seldom a reason to do so) I see the avatar.

So I have no idea what avatars most of you people are using.

373 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:06:38pm

re: #363 JamesTKirk

...in bed.

Dammit, I still haven't come up with a single non-fetish.

Rule 34. There is no such thing.

374 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:06:45pm

Finishing up here watching the phallocentric "Saving Private Ryan" in bits of YouTube pieces throughout the day. I may need to go and weep for a bit.

BBL.

375 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:06:58pm

re: #371 EmmmieG

I really shouldn't know this, but "In the bathtub" works quite well.

In bed.

376 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:07:38pm

re: #291 marwan's daughter

IIRC, that was Bowie producing. I don't think Lou Reed ever had a hit without Bowie either. Production is underrated.

377 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:07:49pm

re: #369 JamesTKirk
"You know how fortune cookies are supposed to be funnier if you add "in bed" to the end of the fortune contained therein?"
Um, actually no, I've never heard that! I gotta get out more often.
Anyway, no harm no fould - I just went up to the top of the thread and started reading and saw an earlier post of yours with the same thing, so now I undertand what you were saying.

378 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:08:09pm

re: #344 iceweasel

Hi Jimmah. ;) Missed you there in the heat of the moment. I'm trying to work in an Uber alles joke but brain isn't working.

I have discovered a seekrit tape of the theocratic agenda!


Heh - perfect python clip for this thread :)

379 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:08:13pm

Just watched Defiance this evening. Quite a story.

380 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:10:07pm

re: #374 Cato the Elder

Finishing up here watching the phallocentric "Saving Private Ryan" in bits of YouTube pieces throughout the day. I may need to go and weep for a bit.

BBL.

"Earn this..."

I tear up just thinking about it.

Finished "John Adams". "Griefs upon griefs. Disappointments upon disappointments. What then? This is a gay, merry world notwithstanding."

It could have been his epitaph.

Great Book.

381 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:10:23pm

I watched Downfall recently. Happy ending with dead Nazis.

382 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:10:30pm

re: #368 Sharmuta

re: #363 JamesTKirk
Dammit, I still haven't come up with a single non-fetish.

Same. I'm stumped.

There actually was someone who a few years back who realized that there were no pages on the internet dedicated to naked people playing guitars in the shower. He immediately created wetriffs.com (nsfw)... because if you ever do think of a fetish that doesn't exist yet, it will be brought into existence just by you thinking of it.

383 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:12:26pm

re: #382 JamesTKirk

There actually was someone who a few years back who realized that there were no pages on the internet dedicated to naked people playing guitars in the shower. He immediately created wetriffs.com (nsfw)... because if you ever do think of a fetish that doesn't exist yet, it will be brought into existence just by you thinking of it.

Exactly. Rule 34.

385 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:13:13pm

re: #383 Coracle

Exactly. Rule 34.

But, there is NO Rule 6.

386 realwest  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:13:16pm

Well this has been an interesting sorta thread tonight, but I gotta get some sleep.
Hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.


Good night, all.

387 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:13:33pm

re: #361 JamesTKirk

You've got quite a few years on me and my wife; but then, neither of us was even at the age of consent yet in 1980.

Congratulations. Always glad to see a couple still happy and together after so long. I know too many people whose marriages have already crashed and burned.

We've had our ups and downs, like any long-term married couple with rambunctious kids and careers, but we're still very happy together. As I related in another thread this evening, our little nuclear family is getting a re-adjustment this week, and it's a tough pill to swallow. It took me all summer to finish writing my congratulations on the card we bought for my daughter's high school graduation, but I turned it over earlier tonight. I built her dorm-loft in the garage today, and we're installing it tomorrow, as we get the key to her room and get ready for classes to start on Wednesday.

388 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:13:59pm

re: #383 Coracle

Exactly. Rule 34.

I know what Rule 34 is, since 45% of Rule 34 seems to involve me and Mr. Spock.

389 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:15:12pm

re: #367 Cato the Elder

A grrrl called "I'm smart, your dumber"
Thought that she could outcome any comer.
When Cato advanced
She came in her pants
And had to acknowledge the strummer.

390 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:15:51pm

re: #56 quickjustice

Oh, suicide? ;-)

She's kidding with that 'moronicide is justifiable' comment. At least I assumed she was, since all of her posts are satirical, if you look at the archives.

391 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:16:16pm

re: #388 JamesTKirk

I know what Rule 34 is, since 45% of Rule 34 seems to involve me and Mr. Spock.

Hey, At least Spock has Uhura now. That leaves the rest of the universe for you.

392 freetoken  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:16:25pm

re: #384 Gus 802

Shiplord posted a link in the spinoffs.

Amazingly, the "benzene" ring looks just like the models!

393 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:17:29pm

re: #380 calcajun

Goethe (who witnessed the battle of Jena) said:

Das Leben ist kurz, doch der Tag ist lang.

"Life is short, but the day is long."

Make of it what ye can.

394 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:17:44pm

re: #392 freetoken

Shiplord posted a link in the spinoffs.

Amazingly, the "benzene" ring looks just like the models!

Did he? Amazing work being done at IBM Zurich. It's also good to see IBM being part of this work.

395 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:18:12pm

re: #389 Cato the Elder

A grrrl called "I'm smart, your dumber"
Thought that she could outcome any comer.
When Cato advanced
She came in her pants
And had to acknowledge the strummer.

So you're marketing yourself as JTK's competition in the ladies man category?

396 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:18:15pm

re: #389 Cato the Elder

PIMF: "you're", of course. I'm a bit tipsy.

397 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:18:32pm

re: #391 Coracle

Hey, At least Spock has Uhura now. That leaves the rest of the universe for you.

[Link: community.livejournal.com...]

398 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:20:21pm

re: #397 JamesTKirk

[Link: community.livejournal.com...]

That is just wrong.

399 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:20:44pm

re: #363 JamesTKirk

...in bed.

Dammit, I still haven't come up with a single non-fetish.

Kirk, I think I've got it... Dandruff! Huh? Huh? Whaddaya think?

400 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:21:01pm

re: #391 Coracle

Hey, At least Spock has Uhura now. That leaves the rest of the universe for you.

Hey, Uhura's a hottie. Reminds me of an ex.

401 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:21:10pm

I'm going to read for a while and go to sleep.

weet dreams all!

402 Gella  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:21:42pm

new Utah texting law
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Utah Gets Tough With Texting Drivers
After a crash here that killed two scientists — and prompted a dogged investigation by a police officer and local victim’s advocate — Utah passed the nation’s toughest law to crack down on texting behind the wheel. Offenders now face up to 15 years in prison.

The new law, which took effect in May, penalizes a texting driver who causes a fatality as harshly as a drunken driver who kills someone. In effect, a crash caused by such a multitasking motorist is no longer considered an “accident” like one caused by a driver who, say, runs into another car because he nodded off at the wheel. Instead, such a crash would now be considered inherently reckless.

403 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:21:54pm

re: #398 Coracle

That is just wrong.

On so many levels. Ewww.

404 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:21:57pm

re: #395 Dark_Falcon

So you're marketing yourself as JTK's competition in the ladies man category?

My style is different than his.

405 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:22:36pm

re: #400 JamesTKirk

Hey, Uhura's a hottie. Reminds me of an ex.

No argument there.

406 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:22:54pm

re: #398 Coracle

That is just wrong.

My favorite frame is Bones with "He is a doctor, golly gosh darn it!"

407 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:23:32pm

re: #402 Gella

I want a law that if I'm with my sister, and she's texting while I'm talking to her, I get to bop her over the head with whatever's handy.

408 garycooper  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:23:42pm

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

Gary's not a full-on troll. He's just a sore loser. However, he should stop going after you. Charles doesn't like bullies or assholes. If he keeps it up, don't hesitate to hit the 'report' button.

Charles knows me, from way back. I have disagreed with him recently, on the AGW thing, but I was an opponent of the militant fundies here back in 2004, and I am still an independently-minded person now. If he doesn't want me here, I'll go away. It's almost hockey season, anyway. ;)

409 sngnsgt  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:24:25pm

re: #401 ggt

Nite ggt...

410 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:24:32pm

re: #399 Slumbering Behemoth

Kirk, I think I've got it... Dandruff! Huh? Huh? Whaddaya think?

I just googled it.

Results 1 - 100 of about 427,000 for dandruff fetish.

Sorry, try again.

411 freetoken  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:24:44pm

re: #394 Gus 802

IBM is one of the few large corporations that still does basic and applied research without needing government money.

The demise of Bell Labs was, in hindsight, a loss for the US.

412 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:25:03pm

re: #407 EmmmieG

I want a law that if I'm with my sister, and she's texting while I'm talking to her, I get to bop her over the head with whatever's handy.

If you're the eldest, it's already part of your birthright. Bop away. If you're the younger, you can get away with it anyway, because the snotty younger sibling always gets away with it.

413 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:25:03pm

re: #410 JamesTKirk

Soap scum.

414 Gella  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:25:08pm

this is cool

Dual-screen laptop on sale by Christmas
The world's first truly dual-screen laptop, which will allow computer users to multi-task while on the move, is due to go on sale by the end of the year.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

415 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:26:36pm

re: #413 EmmmieG

Soap scum.

Results 1 - 100 of about 10,200 for soap scum fetish.

You can google your next bright ideas yourself. Ew.

416 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:26:51pm

re: #410 JamesTKirk

Damnit! I mean, what the hell is there to fetishize about dandruff?

Never mind, don't wanna know.

417 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:27:18pm

re: #416 Slumbering Behemoth

Damnit! I mean, what the hell is there to fetishize about dandruff?

Never mind, don't wanna know.

Neither do I, that's why I'm not doing your google checks anymore.

418 right_wing2  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:28:10pm

Disgusting.

419 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:28:31pm

re: #411 freetoken

IBM is one of the few large corporations that still does basic and applied research without needing government money.

The demise of Bell Labs was, in hindsight, a loss for the US.

Was looking through their videos on their Youtube channel IBMLabs.

Couple of things caught my eye:

IBM Research's nanoMRI microscope

IBM Makes Water Clean With Smarter, Energy-Efficient Purification

420 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:28:51pm

re: #418 right_wing2

Disgusting.


The subject of the thread, or dandruff fetishes?

421 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:29:23pm

re: #411 freetoken

My father worked for Bell Labs, way back.

422 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:29:38pm

The Internet.

A powerful tool for both good an OMG! WTF IS THAT! NO! NO! BRAIN BLEACH, STAT! I WANT TO LEAVE THE HUMAN RACE RIGHT NOW!

423 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:30:44pm

I think the flounce fairy may be about to pay this thread a wee visit.

424 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:31:13pm

re: #422 Slumbering Behemoth

I think Kurt Vonnegut would agree.

425 freetoken  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:31:33pm

re: #423 Jimmah

What say?

426 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:32:29pm

Internet warning signs. 1, 6, and 8 are most relevant to Rule 34.

427 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:32:47pm

re: #424 Cato the Elder

Has Kurt ever seen goatse?

428 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:32:55pm

re: #421 EmmmieG

My father worked for Bell Labs, way back.

Oh yeah. I'm Bunsen Honeydew, and I work for Muppet Labs!//

429 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:33:31pm

One time, back when Dad was working for Boeing (after Bell Labs), he brought home a picture on computer paper (which had, you know, holes on the side) on which they had managed to print, by using specific characters, a kitteh!

He was disappointed we weren't more impressed.

430 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:33:36pm

re: #405 Coracle

re: #400 JamesTKirk

Hey, Uhura's a hottie. Reminds me of an ex.

No argument there.

She reminds you of my ex? When did you meet my ex?

431 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:33:54pm

re: #426 Coracle

Internet warning signs. 1, 6, and 8 are most relevant to Rule 34.

LOL!

432 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:33:56pm

re: #426 Coracle

Oh, yeah #9, as well.

433 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:34:09pm

re: #418 right_wing2

Disgusting.

You said it, brother. Um... What were we talking about?

434 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:34:39pm

re: #423 Jimmah

I think the flounce fairy may be about to pay this thread a wee visit.

We could turn it into a fund raiser for LGF. Folks could pledge a buck of two for each deletion or flounce, both- whatever, then tune in tomorrow to check the over night damage and hit the tip jar.

435 right_wing2  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:34:41pm

re: #420 EmmmieG

The subject of the thread, or dandruff fetishes?

Thread subject, at least initially. Dandruff fetish fits in well too, though.

yuk.

436 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:35:02pm

re: #430 JamesTKirk

She reminds you of my ex? When did you meet my ex?

Long time ago. Galaxy far, far awa-

Nah. You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

437 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:35:24pm

re: #423 Jimmah

I think the flounce fairy may be about to pay this thread a wee visit.

What makes you say that?

438 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:35:28pm

re: #434 Sharmuta

A buck or two. PIMF

/Freedom costs a buck-o-five.

439 right_wing2  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:35:44pm

re: #428 calcajun

And this is my assistant, Beeker

440 Syrah  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:36:16pm

Guaranteed conviction.

441 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:36:33pm

re: #416 Slumbering Behemoth

Damnit! I mean, what the hell is there to fetishize about dandruff?

Never mind, don't wanna know.

Let it snow!
Let it snow!
Let it snow!

442 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:37:11pm

re: #423 Jimmah

I think the flounce fairy may be about to pay this thread a wee visit.

I'm not sure who or what the flounce fairy is, unless Mr. Sulu has a new nickname I haven't heard about.

443 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:37:36pm

re: #442 JamesTKirk

I'm not sure who or what the flounce fairy is, unless Mr. Sulu has a new nickname I haven't heard about.

LMAO!

444 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:38:02pm

re: #425 freetoken

What say?

Just betting that this thread will prove too much for someone. Healthy sign of a good abortion thread, IMO.

445 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:38:44pm

re: #442 JamesTKirk

I'm not sure who or what the flounce fairy is, unless Mr. Sulu has a new nickname I haven't heard about.

Set phasers for "Fabulous!"

446 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:39:12pm

re: #444 Jimmah

Just betting that this thread will prove too much for someone. Healthy sign of a good abortion thread, IMO.

This is an abortion thread? I haven't seen anyone actually mention abortion in ages.

P.S. No, I will not google "abortion fetish".

447 Coracle  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:39:47pm

It is late. Night all.

448 NukeAtomrod  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:40:23pm

Ah! The old "my lawyer is as crazy as me defense!" The beauty of it is the defense never ever worked, thus proving it's true! This pretty much guarantees that Scott Roeder will get the death penalty.

449 Opilio  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:40:36pm

re: #410 JamesTKirk

I just googled it.

Results 1 - 100 of about 427,000 for dandruff fetish.

Sorry, try again.


Dust mites.

450 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:40:45pm

You can, however, find my ex dressed as Uhura if you know what terms to google with.

451 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:41:53pm

re: #450 JamesTKirk

You can, however, find my ex dressed as Uhura if you know what terms to google with.

I thought your ex was green? Or was that only after sex? I forget.///

452 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:42:47pm

re: #448 NukeAtomrod

Ah! The old "my lawyer is as crazy as me defense!" The beauty of it is the defense never ever worked, thus proving it's true! This pretty much guarantees that Scott Roeder will get the death penalty.

I hope you're right. Roeder deserves the needle for the wrongs he has both cammitted and encouraged.

453 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:42:48pm

BTW-- I did not watch the Kennedy funeral. Was there a "Wellstone" moment, or was a general sense of decorum observed?

454 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:44:13pm

re: #453 calcajun

BTW-- I did not watch the Kennedy funeral. Was there a "Wellstone" moment, or was a general sense of decorum observed?

From what I saw, the proper boundaries were kept. And now I must go to bed. I'd fading fast. Goodnight, all.

455 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:44:57pm

One last post, and then I am also going to turn in.

The flounce fairy.

456 calcajun  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:45:10pm

A little bit of good news.

Anyway--night all.

457 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:46:03pm

re: #445 calcajun

I narrowly averted a spew over that comment.
LOL!

458 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:46:18pm

Before I crrrsh.

Speakin' of Canadian grrrls.

Martina Sorbara - Bonnie and Clyde.

Mrrrtina makes hrrr own guitrrrs.

Slow song frrr a slow night.

459 NukeAtomrod  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:46:24pm

Vaguely related to the Star Trek and Sulu comments...

Youtube Video
460 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:46:47pm

re: #455 EmmmieG

One last post, and then I am also going to turn in.

The flounce fairy.

Need I remind you?

re: #422 Slumbering Behemoth

The Internet.

A powerful tool for both good an OMG! WTF IS THAT! NO! NO! BRAIN BLEACH, STAT! I WANT TO LEAVE THE HUMAN RACE RIGHT NOW!

461 right_wing2  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:47:11pm

re: #455 EmmmieG

Oh dear God...

462 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:47:15pm

re: #451 calcajun

I thought your ex was green? Or was that only after sex? I forget.///

Different ex.

463 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:47:20pm

re: #458 Cato the Elder

"...and maybe we will be redeemed..."

464 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:47:56pm

re: #455 EmmmieG

One last post, and then I am also going to turn in.

The flounce fairy.

Sulu has let himself go, hasn't he?

465 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:48:09pm

re: #445 calcajun

Set phasers for "Fabulous!"

Rotating title nomination?
I'm still laughing!

466 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:52:51pm

Barney Frank is working with Ron Paul on compromise legislation to audit the Fed.

[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

Frank said he has been working with Paul on compromise language. "He agrees that we don't want to have the audit appear as if it is influencing monetary policy because that would be inflationary," Frank told constituents.

467 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:56:01pm

re: #466 Gus 802

Barney Frank is working with Ron Paul

There's a moronic convergence.

And possibly a fetish. But someone else can google it.

468 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:57:15pm

re: #466 Gus 802

That dude is such a whore.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Ron Paul would work with anybody if it meant he could fuck with the Fed.

469 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:57:51pm

re: #467 JamesTKirk

There's a moronic convergence.

And possibly a fetish. But someone else can google it.

I was wondering how it would fit in with the fetish angle. Would it be fedophillia, frankophillia, or paulophillia?

//

470 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:58:06pm

re: #468 Slumbering Behemoth

That dude is such a whore.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Ron Paul would work with anybody if it meant he could fuck with the Fed your head.

FTFY

471 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:58:16pm

re: #468 Slumbering Behemoth

That dude is such a whore.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Ron Paul would work with anybody if it meant he could fuck with the Fed.

And Barney Frank has already proved willing to work with whores (and to even allow them to work out of his home).

472 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:00:08pm

re: #468 Slumbering Behemoth

We'll have to see what becomes of this. With Frank working with Paul it increase the chance of passage. Bernanke is still in opposition. It's still subject to veto.

473 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:00:43pm

re: #470 Cato the Elder

That will never happen. I have a tinfoil hat approved by none other than Ron Pau...

Oh shit!

474 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:01:07pm

re: #471 JamesTKirk

And Barney Frank has already proved willing to work with whores (and to even allow them to work out of his home).

To be fair, anyone who gets to Congress clearly has no problem working with whores...

like that old joke, "We've established what you are; now we're just haggling over price."

475 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:01:12pm

re: #472 Gus 802

"...comes of this..."

FTFY

476 freetoken  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:01:42pm

re: #467 JamesTKirk

And possibly a fetish. But someone else can google it.

Well...

If you put "Barney Frank Ron Paul" into the great anagram server... you get...
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
↓
Anal Burn Freaky Porn

/you asked for it...

477 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:02:09pm

re: #475 Cato the Elder

"...comes of this..."

FTFY

Muchas gracias.

479 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:02:39pm

My two cent's worth: the legal strategy is nuts and pernicious, both. It's nuts because you cannot claim justifiable homicide when there is no imminent threat to life or even to property. You cannot claim justifiable homicide when there is, as a matter of law, no threat whatsoever to the life of any person.

It's pernicious because implicitly it argues that law be damned, the killing is morally justifiable. Go forth and do likewise, it hints, very broadly.

Still, the kinds of abortions Tiller was performing include a grizzly procedure which isn't really abortion at all, though by law it is defined as such. The law should be corrected.

Partial birth abortion treats as unborn a child who for all obstetrical purposes is a breech birth that is over the hump, and thus, as much an accomplished fact as a normally presenting delivery, when the head has been delivered.

480 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:03:18pm

re: #476 freetoken


Anal Burn Freaky Porn

/you asked for it...

No. No, I really didn't...

best post of the night!

481 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:04:14pm

re: #480 iceweasel

re: #476 freetoken
you asked for it...

No. No, I really didn't...

I think that sums up most of this thread, actually.

482 freetoken  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:04:26pm

re: #480 iceweasel

If either Barney Frank or Ron Paul get anywhere near the Fed, "Anal Burn" seems likely...

483 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:05:07pm

re: #482 freetoken

If either Barney Frank or Ron Paul get anywhere near the Fed, "Anal Burn" seems likely...

"Anal Burn" or, as Barney Frank calls it, "Tuesday".

484 Gus  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:05:25pm

re: #476 freetoken

My local fire department and my proctologist don't approve.

//

485 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:05:34pm

re: #478 JamesTKirk

I didn't buy a ticket. I didn't pack my bags. But you took me there anyway.

/shudder

486 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:07:20pm

Forget health care. Forget the Fed.

They should put Barney Frank in charge of fixing the US Post Office.

I mean, who in Congress has handled more packages than Barney Frank?

487 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:07:58pm

Ya know what, if no one here's sober enough to listen to Martina, I'm gonna flounce!

488 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:08:42pm

re: #486 JamesTKirk

Larry Craig?

Nancy Pelo... NO! NO! STOP RIGHT NOW!

489 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:09:02pm

re: #487 Cato the Elder

Ya know what, if no one here's sober enough to listen to Martina, I'm gonna flounce!

OK, here's your pink tutu, have fun.

Actually, I think that guy was wearing at least a threethree.

490 freetoken  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:09:30pm

BTW, there are other phrases that the anagram server spit out... but they go from bad to worse.

491 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:09:40pm

From "Saving Private Ryan":

When was the last time you felt good about anything?

492 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:10:19pm

re: #490 freetoken

BTW, there are other phrases that the anagram server spit out... but they go from bad to worse.

There are a couple of pretty scary ones that come out if you enter my TrueName.

493 esch  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:12:24pm

re: #476 freetoken

One billion updings.

494 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:12:40pm

re: #492 JamesTKirk

There are a couple of pretty scary ones that come out if you enter my TrueName.

If you put in "Ronald Wilson Reagan" you get "insane Anglo warlord".

nomen est omen

Just sayin'.

495 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:12:52pm

There's a new overnight open thread, which is yet another hint that I really should be off to bed.

496 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:13:15pm

re: #479 lostlakehiker


Still, the kinds of abortions Tiller was performing include a grizzly procedure which isn't really abortion at all, though by law it is defined as such. The law should be corrected.

Yes. Late term abortions shouldn't be considered abortions at all. They are extremely rare surgical procedures that only three doctors in the US were performing. Now only two doctors can perform them-- and one of them is already being targeted. These abortions generally involved cases where the mother's health was at risk or the fetus was not going to live. In some cases they involved child victims of rape or incest who were not removed from the home until they were already in their third trimester.

As for partial birth abortion-- you are correct that it shouldn't be called abortion. But you're right for the wrong reasons. Again, it is a surgical procedure which is generally performed when the fetus is already severely damaged (or sometimes dead) or the health of the mother is at risk.

The right wing extremist anti-abortion theocrats DID rename the procedure. They introduced the term "partial birth abortion" and introduced a bill about it.

Again, this was a wedge strategy designed with the ultimate goal of banning all abortions-- just as there has been a push to get emergency contraception called an 'abortificant', which it is not, and a push to even get the birth control pill defined as a form of abortion.

497 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:13:40pm

re: #476 freetoken

My eyes! Brain bleach! STAT!

498 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:14:06pm

re: #497 Floral Giraffe

My eyes! Brain bleach! STAT!

Here, have some mental floss.

499 JamesTKirk  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:16:26pm

re: #479 lostlakehiker

Still, the kinds of abortions Tiller was performing include a grizzly procedure

He was performing abortions on BEARS?!?! Does PETA know about this??

FYI: "grisly".

500 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:21:15pm

re: #498 JamesTKirk

Thank you kindly!
Off to the upstairs thread, now!

501 Syrah  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:24:22pm

An anecdotal observation of cultural currents.

I went to a rodeo tonight.

The Rodeo Clown cracked two jokes at Obama.

The crowed clapped and cheered at his jokes.

Nobody booed him or the jokes.

~~~

First joke.

. . . the clown holds up a bra.

Clown: It reminds me of that Barack Obama.

Announcer: It reminds you of Barack Obama? Why is that?

Clown: Its loosing more and more support all the time.

~~~

Second Joke.

Clown: Everybody who is opposed to Obama's health care plan, you have to drive during the day with your headlights on.

Everybody who supports Obama's health care plan, you have to drive at night with your headlights off.

~~~

Both jokes were pretty lame.

But both jokes received loud applause and cheers from the audience.

No one booed them.

This rodeo was in a blue county in a blue state.


It probably means nothing.

. . .

probably . . .

502 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:31:26pm

re: #501 Syrah

Likely means that democrat ideologues don't go to rodeos. But I don't either, and I am neither a dem nor an ideologue.

So, yeah. It probably means nothing.

503 Syrah  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:36:35pm

re: #502 Slumbering Behemoth

Likely means that democrat ideologues don't go to rodeos. But I don't either, and I am neither a dem nor an ideologue.

So, yeah. It probably means nothing.

probably. . .

There were no boos.

None.

504 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:39:38pm

re: #503 Syrah

Who would be dumb enough to boo a joke about a democrat at a rodeo? Honestly?

505 FamHistoryGuy  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:39:52pm

Something from 1944.

506 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:45:42pm

re: #505 FamHistoryGuy

Lots of skin and jiggle. I approve.

507 idioma  Sun, Aug 30, 2009 12:22:31am

For these fanatics, life begins at conception!

And ends in assassination.

If killing the unborn is murder, and god made us in his image, why are there so many miscarriages?

A) God's design is flawed.
B) Humans evolved with other placental mammals.
C) This question is Blasphemy! Off with your head infidel!
D) Miscarriages are abortions from god.

508 swamprat  Sun, Aug 30, 2009 12:27:30am

re: #507 idioma

You see so little truly epic rhetoric nowadays. That is outstanding. Try to work in the phrase "crucify mankind upon a cross of gold". You should go to work for the government, they suck at this.

509 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Aug 30, 2009 12:27:33am

re: #479 lostlakehiker

re: #496 iceweasel

Addendum to my earlier post:

It's also not true that Tiller was performing partial birth abortions-- because they are already illegal in the US. The procedure had been called IDX: intact dilation and extraction. The anti-choice wingnuts succeeded in getting it renamed partial-birth abortion, and succeeded in getting it outlawed.

Result? One class of surgical procedures was renamed 'abortion' and outlawed-- thereby helping to pave the way for outlawing all abortions, because that is their agenda. And as a result, grieving mothers who desperately wanted their child and were forced to terminate their preganancy for health reasons are now denied the ability to say goodbye* and are forced to choose other surgical procedures that may carry greater health risks as well.

And a further motive was to open the door to potential prosecutions of doctors performing other procedures that terminate pregnancies.

The anti-choice theocrats have been at this since the 80's. Don't believe the rhetoric you're hearing from them. The law does need to be changed -- changed back.

* I strongly urge anyone interested in this issue to read the account I linked there. It will change your mind on the topic of partial birth "abortion".

510 What, me worry?  Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:29:17am

re: #509 iceweasel

Good morning, Ice. I didn't plan on crying this morning! That was a very moving story.

At the risk of cherry picking out a few lines and being misunderstood, I wanted to draw attention to this part:

We knew what we had to do. Letting the girls die on their own didn't seem like an option, because we believed they were suffering while endangering my own health. And even if Sierra could survive the operation, what kind of life would she have? My parents said they would quit their jobs to help care for her, but it didn't seem right to bring her into the world with such bleak prospects. I thought about what my pastor had said, and to me, giving her the most life meant releasing her to heaven rather than having her suffer on earth.
511 Perplexed  Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:32:15am

Disgusting behavior on the part of someone who should know better.

512 capt26thga  Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:49:12am

I keep trying to get Fish and Game to put a season on lawyers. But every year it gets bogged down in committee over the bag limits. Darn bureaucrats and their technicalities.

513 Land Shark  Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:58:31am

I know I'm late to this thread but I just had to comment. Gunning down abortion doctors is justifiable homicide? Man, these people are nuts. I'm strongly anti-abortion but this sure falls into the "things Jesus would NOT do" category.

I know this will be quickly shoot down but it's indicative of the mind set of many anti-abortionists today. That people would think terrorism and murder are options is madness!


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