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What I Saw at Gitmo

Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 4:28:19 pm PDT

Lt. Col. Gordon Cucullu toured the Guantanamo Bay detention facility, and here’s what he saw. (Hat tip: LGF readers.)

After speaking with soldiers, sailors, and civilians who collectively staff Gitmo, I left convinced that abuse definitely exists at the detention facilities, and it typically fails to receive the press attention it deserves: it’s the relentless, merciless attacks on American servicemen and women by these terrorist thugs. Many of the orange jumpsuit-clad detainees fight their captors at every opportunity, openly bragging of their desire to kill Americans. One has promised that, if released, he would find MPs in their homes through the internet, break into their houses at night, and “cut the throats of them and their families like sheep.” Others claim authority and vindication to kill women, children, and other innocents who oppose their jihadist mission authorized by the Koran (the same one that hangs in every cell from a specially-designed holder intended to protect it from a touching the cell floor – all provided at U.S. taxpayer expense). One detainee was heard to tell another: “One day I will enjoy sucking American blood, although their blood is bitter, undrinkable….” These recalcitrant detainees are known euphemistically as being “non-compliant.” They attack guards whenever the soldiers enter their cells, trying to reach up under protective facemasks to gouge eyes and tear mouths. They make weapons and try to stab the guards or grab and break limbs as the guards pass them food.

We dined with the soldiers, toured several of the individual holding camps, observed interrogations, and inspected cells. We were impressed by the universally high quality of the cadre and the facilities. While it may not be exactly “Club GITMO,” as Rush Limbaugh uses to tweak the hard-Left critics who haven’t a clue about reality here, GITMO is a far cry from the harshness experienced even by maximum security prisoners in the U.S.

Meals for detainees are ample: we lunched on what several thought was an accumulated single day’s ration for detainees. “No,” the contract food service manager said with a laugh, “what you’re looking at there is today’s lunch. A single meal. They get three a day like that.” The vegetables, pita bread, and other well-prepared food filled two of the large Styrofoam take-home containers we see in restaurants. Several prisoners have special meal orders like “no tomatoes” or “no peanut products” depending on taste or allergies. “One prisoner,” General Hood said, “throws back his food tray if it contains things he has specifically said he doesn’t want.” How is he punished for this outrageous behavior? His tray is numbered, the food he requested is put on it, and the corrected “order” is delivered to his cell.

The detainees are similarly catered to medically. Almost every one arrived at GITMO with some sort of battlefield trauma. After all, the majority were captured in combat. Today they are healthy, immunized, and well cared for. At a visit to the modern hospital facility – dedicated solely to the detainees and comparable to a well-equipped and staffed small-town hospital with operating, dental, routine facilities – the doctor in charge confirmed that the caloric count for the detainees was so high that while “most detainees arrived undernourished,” medics now watch for issues stemming from high cholesterol and being overweight. Each of approximately 520 terrorists currently held in confinement averages about four medical visits monthly, something one would expect from only a dedicated American hypochondriac. Welcome to the rigors of detention under American supervision.

UPDATE at 6/27/05 4:36:01 pm:

At the official House of Representatives site, here’s the actual Guantanamo Detainee Menu. (400K, PDF.)

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333 comments

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1 revolution calling  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:30:59pm

Fry the f@ckers and let them meet Allah and Mohammed.

2 Austin Conservative  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:31:12pm

I'm glad they are so well cared for. They'l be in even better shape to attack us when they get released.

3 SwampWoman  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:32:15pm

"Death to America"!

Please send me to Gitmo now. The food sounds great and I could use a vacation.

4 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:34:57pm

Killing them with kindness.

5 BabbaZee  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:35:58pm

The detainees are similarly catered to....

blah blah blah blah blah!

We are out of our ever-lovin' minds!
Why dont we get them korean chickes to gfive them massages with happy endings while we're at it?

GULAG MY ASS

6 CrowScape  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:36:00pm

How is he punished for this outrageous behavior? His tray is numbered, the food he requested is put on it, and the corrected “order” is delivered to his cell.

Numbered? NUMBERED! These aren't animals! They're human beings, with names! NAZIS! STALINISTS! THE NEW HOLOCAUST! IT'S ALL THE BUSHITLER'S FAULT!

7 Earth2moonbat  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:36:18pm

#4 Bubble Girl

Killing them with puppets
8 doppelganglander  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:36:27pm

Dental facilities? The horror!

9 Keyser Soze abupango  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:37:02pm

In hell I would think ?

10 happy4la  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:37:55pm

Where's the cultural relativism? Many of these captives hate America for being weak and spreading a hedonistic lifestyle.

"Weak" America won't widely distribute negative stories against these monsters because they fear of being labeled "racist" even though Islam is not a race. It will take another 9-11 incident that is much greater in magnitude to get more people on board in the fight against terrorism. Unfortunately, it's not IF but WHEN. Sigh...

I have a dream ...

11 scotch  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:38:44pm

Anybody here get a "club gitmo" T-shirt from rush?

12 Austin Conservative  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:38:46pm

I say we send that fat f*ck Teddy Kennedy down there and let him bloviate for hours inbetween his swigging vodka martinis. They'll be begging us to stop it and give up all their information.

13 Keyser Soze abupango  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:38:49pm

refering to post #1 .......lol

14 revolution calling  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:39:45pm

Would someone be kind enough to set up a website where dontations can be made and held for the eventual release of the Gitmo Goons?

I'd like to donate a Koran I've finally finished. Two dozen chili cheeseburgers and a keg of beer. It may have to be sent as hazardous waste, but isn't it the thought that counts? :-D

15 sears poncho  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:39:50pm

Ever since Gitmo has been getting so much attention, I have been waiting for some sort of punch line. Something along the lines of "First we pissed on the Koran, then we got out the pliers and the blow torch."

I think we should take any incidents of torture very seriously, but it doesn't seem that what's happening at Gitmo constitutes torture.

16 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:41:42pm

I can't wait for the "60 Minutes" report about how well the detainees are treated.

17 BabbaZee  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:42:27pm

#15 sears poncho
AHAHAHA
love your nic
you you jivin wit dat cozmik debris?
;~}

18 Oh_dude  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:42:56pm

Well it's clear that this kind of behavior requires more stern measures on our part...

More lemon-herb chicken anyone?

19 revolution calling  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:44:52pm

#8 doppelganglander

Now that is torture! Can you imagine being the poor dentist opening one of those pieholes and working on them chicklets?

Just thinking about the horror of that makes me want to turn my pressure washer against myself.

20 Owl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:45:14pm

Why am I not suprised?

I bet this will be on every major news channel tonight. Oh, I am running to the TV to see it.

Or not.

Good article Charles - thanks CJ and Lizards. I'm glad to hear no one is putting panties on heads anymore.

21 Joshua Godinez  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:45:27pm

You know, it sounds to me like the best torture for these guys will be when we release them to their former lives. The reality of scrounging for scraps off of Bin Laden's meager table will make prison look like heaven. Unfortunately, the logical outcome of that is that they'll jump right back on the battlefield in an attempt to be arrested again. On the other hand, they might start singing like canaries if they believe they'll be repatriated.

22 Nate  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:45:50pm

Yeah, uh, 2800 calories per day? How about we send about half of that to Africa.

23 sears poncho  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:46:16pm

#17 BabbaZee

Wow, my 2nd comment ever and I get noticed. Thanks. You know, you can make more money as a butcher, so don't you waste your time on me!

24 Pelayo  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:46:29pm

Amazing that the locus of the world's sympathy has been with the potential or actual mass murderers at gitmos, rather then with the brave soldiers who must guard them.

Sometimes the world seems morally inverted.

25 Perelandra  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:46:38pm

Ah, but spiritually, ecumenically, grammatically, it's exactly the same as the Nazis and Pol Pot and Stal... wait, we like Stalin, nevermind, it's not like Stalin, it's like...

If I'd have known all these years that just standing in close proximity to someone constituted torturing them, I would have had a lot more fun in life.

26 RedWhiteAndJew  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:47:22pm

Now I'm disgusted by the treatment at Gitmo…of the guards and staff. The anxiety and tension brought about by catering hand and foot to animals that would just as soon kill you and your family as say hello must be nearly unbearable.

At least give the staff the outlet of a weekly dousing with a fire hose of the incorrigible prisoners.

Would locking the right hands of particularly malignant prisoners in a solid spherical muzzle of sorts be considered torture? Nothing to heavy or uncomfortable mind you; just something that would force them to feed themselves with their left hands. If they choose not to eat, that’s their problem.

27 Beagle  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:47:52pm

SwampWoman,

Maybe we could go to Pakistan and make a reservation?

28 Leper  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:50:04pm

I think the best solution to Gitmo is to lock all the detainees carefully in their cells with enough food and water for three days. Then crank up a monster stereo with a CD of Michael Jackson's "Beat It" set to infinitely repeat. Walk away and never come back.

29 revolution calling  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:50:30pm
Ah, but spiritually, ecumenically, grammatically, it's exactly the same as the Nazis and Pol Pot and Stal

Sounds like double jeapordy to me. If we've already been accused of the crime...might as well commit it.

Give the "sit down to pee" (no offense ladies!) liberals something to really cry about!

30 greenmamba  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:50:57pm

That menu! They give them bagels! That's Jew food!

SUICIDE BOMBING JUSTIFIED!

// leaves LGF to go register at KOS

31 SgtSongdog  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:52:26pm

WAITER! There's a HAIR in my pate'.

(mumble, mumble, filthy infidels)

/so sick of this

32 merkin4  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:52:39pm

Oh, the humanity! The horror, the horror of it all!

To quote a Cheech Marin line, "If this is torture, tie me to the wall."

33 TotallySirius  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:53:42pm

Goalposts moving in

5
4
3.......

34 Pamela  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:53:50pm

We treat them well, and they treat prisoners like Douglas Wood awful and he watches his friends get shot.


They eat way better then me and hubby does, we can't afford to eat like that all the time.

35 armybrat  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:53:59pm

We don't eat that well everyday at my house and my husband is a chef! My last dentist visit cost me $200 out of my pocket and I'm sweating my ass off without AC here in NY. Gitmo sounds better and better every day. These complaining f*cks were living in caves and eating bugs before they had the luck to survive to become prisoners. I'd say they've moved up considerably in this life.

36 be the meat  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:55:15pm

By treating them so well we are actually inflicting severe mental torture. The confusion the detainee experiences by recieving such mercifull treatment at the hands of the supposedly evil infidels is simply too much to bear and goes against everything they are taught. The blow dealt too their culturally unique and valuable belief system is simple to great for them to bear, this explains their behavior.

It's a new and even more sinister form of torture that has ever been inflicted before. By not actually torturing them we are in fact - torturing them in the worst of ways.

Hell, even Hitler or Stalin would not have sunk to this new unspeakablly cruel level.

/I said whole wheat you dog, no crust. How dare you try to poison me with this, this..... this pita!

37 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:56:07pm
13

Keyser Soze abupango  6/27/2005 04:38PM PDT

 refering to post #1 .......lol

Another Usual Suspect Wiseguy, eh? LOL

38 Andrew B.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:56:54pm

WTF! These guys eat better than I do...this is bullshit. Give them some effing lead and let them die.

39 Dave the.....  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:57:04pm

I was going to try to come up with something witty to say here, but after reading this, instead it makes me angry.

Not so much that we are treating them so well, but how the looney left, including Demcrates in Congress, are saying just the opposite of reality.

40 Merovign  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:57:04pm

The whole press situation has gone off the deep end. Is there any way to restore a sense of perspective?

I mean, it seems like when the MSM gets a reality-pie in the face on live TV, they just say "Well, that's one version of the story." And launch into their spin.

If it doesn't happen live on TV, it just never gets to the TV, like those "pictures you'll never see on the news." It's not a joke, you could make a list of the major news shows and papers and dig through their archives and you would never find those facts that shatter their worldview.

I'm starting to think they really believe that it doesn't matter what the truth is, like somehow they can alter gravity or physics or the past just by will.

It's not as simple as the "big lie," sure, some are that cynical, but a lot of people really believe their BS.

I've had discussions with people who believe insane things, slam essentially undeniable proof in front of them, and they just pause, stunned, for a few seconds, then their brain revs up and they start ranting again, if at an angle, until they get right back where they started.

I'm gonna have to go look to Dr. Sanity for help coping. :)

41 bj  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:57:10pm

Damn, that okra's mighty tough if it's not fried or boiled. Makes life rough down there at Gitmo.

Our military are saints for doing the jobs they do with these ingrates. The soldiers in the field in Iraq would love to have all that fresh fruit, pancakes and syrup and LEMON pepper chicken. OMG!

Clean cells/bathrooms (as opposed to ditches), excellent medical staff on call, directions to Mecca, prayer mats, reading material, medical/dental treatment, psychologists and chaplains on duty, personal copies of the Qur'an, clean clothing, games to play, exercise in the fresh air. That's a lot better than they had it at "home"

42 Phil.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:58:09pm

Remember guys, the LLLs tried to tell the "Big Lie" that Guantanamo was a "gulag", but thanks to the blogs and the new media, they didn't get away with it this time.

Don't let them rewrite history either. We were here when it happened. Pass it on.

43 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:58:26pm
 #7

Earth2moonbat  6/27/2005 04:36PM PDT

#4 Bubble Girl
Killing them with puppets

LOL LOL ..... But softly, Earth2....

/obscure Roberta Flack song

44 Joel  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:58:32pm

The problem with GITMO is that it is more like Club Med then a detention facility for the worst scum on the Earth.

45 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 2:59:26pm

Babba @ 5

I highly recommend this as a rotating title:

GULAG MY ASS


LOL LOL ROFLOL

46 Beagle  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:00:37pm

#36 be the meat

It's a new and even more sinister form of torture that has ever been inflicted before. By not actually torturing them we are in fact - torturing them in the worst of ways.


I detect the omnipresent hand of Karl Rove.

47 Merovign  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:02:42pm

#25 Perelandra

Oh, great. Now I have to go find my Pirates of the Carribbean DVD.

:)

48 Gordon  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:03:53pm

Anyone know what Noodles Jefferson is?

Sounds like an instrument of torture to me ...

49 revolution calling  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:04:47pm

Hell, they're already in Cuba.

Have the torturous guards fashion a boat out of a schoolbus or something similar, give them all an oar, and then let them row, row, row their boat...with a Navy sub waiting. hehe

Better yet, give 'em all powder blue helmets with large, white UN letters so the sub sailors know they're not targeting people underserving of such a fate.

50 Earth2moonbat  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:04:56pm

#43 Bubble Girl

Most puppets I've seen are soft. Or are you thinking of nerf balling them to death? OH NO! NOT THE NERF BALLS!

51 mrsoc  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:05:12pm

39 Dave the.....

"I was going to try to come up with something witty to say here, but after reading this, instead it makes me angry.

Not so much that we are treating them so well, but how the looney left, including Demcrates in Congress, are saying just the opposite of reality."

Which means everything is going just as it usually does.

52 piehole  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:05:28pm

No mystery meat... what the hay?

53 Merovign  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:05:55pm

Hey, I've got an idea. Why don't I sit around and read and eat free prepared meals and still have medical coverage (and have lady soldiers stand too close to me :), and THEY go work and pay for it?

How 'bout that?

54 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:06:29pm

48 Gordon

Ha!

55 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:06:49pm

Earth2 @ 50

Have you ever nerf balled someone?

Nerf balling is dangerous and can be hazardous to your health. You should take this more seriously than you do....

56 relevance  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:07:10pm

#22

Yeah. We should be using this ridiculously nice and well-balanced meal plan on starving Africans who will actually appreciate and NEED the food rather than these murdering bastards.

57 levi from queens  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:07:36pm

Gordon here's the recipe for Noodles Jefferson. It seems to be crying out for ham hocks to be added.

58 Luigi  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:08:48pm
“throws back his food tray if it contains things he has specifically said he doesn’t want.” How is he punished for this outrageous behavior? His tray is numbered, the food he requested is put on it, and the corrected “order” is delivered to his cell.

Upon much consideration I have come to believe this is part of the torture. Way back deep in their minds these guys know they are worthless pieces of sh*t. Heck, they believe everybody is. And I think it drives them crazy to be treated like this. I think they cannot compute this treatment, and sooner or later they lose their bearings, then they're moral compass, and eventually their general sense of who's right and who's wrong, and which side they are on or should be on.

59 Teacake!  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:08:59pm

I have to assume if Clinton were president in this situation 60 min would in fact air a glowing report how good the savages have it. I dare say they have it better than inmates in America, who so many are in prison for non-violent offenses, as if that matters.

60 z9z99  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:11:26pm

Is there a federal agency I can petition, or form I can fill out to have this Guantanamo crap declared a non-issue? It's not like the detainees are there because they were abducted by space aliens for medical experiments. Here, lets make it simple:

Every detainee is entitled to have his status determined. This simply means that a determination must be made that the detainee was participating in military activities against the United States. The official report of such detainee's capture should create a rebuttable presumption that the detention is permissible. End of story. Other evidence, like intelligence data on specific individuals should also be allowed. Once in Guantanamo, they should be subject to federal criminal law for any offenses committed within the facility. These clowns are like the creatures in the Movie "Gremlins" except instead of becoming nasty when wet, they start out nasty and get all furry and doe-eyed when the media is around.

As for the Korans, here's my suggestion: when they get to Guantanamo, give them a Bible. If they show they know how to take care of books for a couple of months, then let them have a Koran.

And something else: I don't care what they eat. I'm not impressed with their menus, and if Reuters wants to sift through their droppings to see if they have adequate variety, that's their business, but I'm not interested. Whether they are treated appropriately or not is an objective determination made according to the standards of a civilized people, not a reader's poll in Culinary Digest.

So before the next lefty mountebank goes off about "mistreatment" or inhumane this or that, let's at least require the accommodation of

1.) defining just what "mistreatment" and torture mean;
2.) propose alternatives that respect the legitimate defense interests of the United States;
3.) Explicitly state what presumptions are allowed in arriving at the finding of "mistreatment;" and
4.) Acknowledge that Americans can die if insufficent thought is given to how we deal with these poor, misunderstood creatures.

61 Orbit Rain  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:11:37pm
openly bragging of their desire to kill Americans.

I'm assuming enemies fighting out of uniform still get shot as spies.

Some of them get the death penalty.

...boo hoo France...

...boo hoo Germany...

...boo hoo lefties...

tough shit

aint it!

62 DhimmiMoore  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:13:32pm

Satans imps are quite unruly. Head-chopping, blood-drinking, child-killing beasts. And we're the bad guys.

63 Powderfinger  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:13:35pm

nodroG made a funny! Yay!

As for the Gitmo diet, it appears, in my professional opinion, to be deficient.

It needs more lead.

64 Elcid  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:13:57pm

There is a damn good chance...a damn good chance, we (the U.S.) will lose this war. If we do, the rest of the world doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell.

It has been said that The meek shall inherit the Earth . And we have!

65 tum  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:16:02pm

The inhumanity -- I don't eat that well! Where can I sign up?

66 Wino  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:17:55pm

It sounds like they aren't getting enough protein down there. I suggest we rip off their gonads and cram them down their Allah-loving throats.

And then wipe our hands on the koran to get the crap off them. That pack of lies is too rough for its natural purpose. Besides, I don't need a BM right now.

67 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:21:01pm

Well, we sure won't hear the truth in the vast majority of mainstream news publications. I just saw yesterday that while the remarks of Amnesty International and Sen. Dick Durban get endless columns of print and are featured stories on ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS; the story about the visits to Guantanamo was "disappeared". Not one weekly news program on Sunday across the Big 4 broadcast networks even mentioned the visits.

Every day the New York Times and an endless stream of other newspapers make sure that casualties from terror attacks in Iraq, or Afghanistan on a slow day, are above-the-fold news. Every single day week after week, month after month.

Only through a sparse few outlets do we hear about the opinion of the real Iraqis, the ones who dream of prosperity and freedom and self-determination. According to the overwhelming din of MSM propaganda these voices are never heard, the border-infiltrating jihadists are the true will of the Iraqi people, and Iraq has a puppet government tailored to be exactly per our oppressive right wing specs.

I'm so familiar with all this now, but when it happened on a globally-coordinated scale for the first time (Viet Nam), none were prepared for what happened.

Look at what lies have been substituted for the words "If you are not with us, you are against us." That call for all nations to declare their univeral condemnation of indiscriminate terror against innocent civilians, and to prove their intentions by their observable actions; that call has now been subverted into "America says bow to our desires or we will kill you."

While it's necessary to understand the agenda and tactics of the enemy, it's also important to agitate those who want to sell the soul of our society for their precious gilded idols; to stir them into a hornet's nest of anger and unbridled venomous attack at every turn. Only by challenging and provoking with ridicule and insult and absolutely unshakeable conviction will their masks of responsible civility and higher goals be ripped away to reveal the coarse demon of hatred, for their souls must haunt them every waking and sleeping hour.

Only by revealing this demon in true form may we obtain the upper hand. Don't hesitate to speak the truth to those around you, even if you understand that those persons are locked in a matrix of denial and careless ignorance. Let them know that the whole world doesn't agree with what they hear every day.

Let them know that the MSM are garbage, that they are wracked with lies and distortions, covert and overt deceptions. Show them the examples that are revealed on this and other good blogs every day. Let them know that to be patriotic doesn't mean burning the flag to show that you believe in free speech, but by learning all you can from a wide variety of viewpoints to show that you believe in the underlying principle behind free speech, the inalienable right to freedom of THOUGHT - a responsibility that requires that you acquire knowledge to support your THINKING, not your indoctrination.

68 Earth2moonbat  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:22:06pm

#55 Bubble Girl

That may very well be the weirdest comment you've made. And that's saying a lot. But I suppose that you see nerf victims every day. Horrors that I can't imagine....

69 Dublin(CA)Dude  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:23:04pm

#26 redwhiteandjew

What a great idea. Restrain their right hands at meal time, force them to eat with their left or starve.

#5 Babba Zee

as usual, she nails it.

70 bitsy  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:23:41pm

First Atkins, then South Beach ... now...

the Gitmo Diet!

71 be the meat  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:24:28pm

How on earth has this country become so soft?

Or rather...

How on Earth has this country allowed itself to be convinced that it is this soft?

Weakness is the new Strength.

Shame is the new Pride.

Fear is the new Courage.

Death is the new Life.

72 irish19  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:25:49pm

#57 Levi
Ham hocks with noodles?! Come on! Everyone knows the ham hocks should go in the Great Northern Beans.

73 Perelandra  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:26:07pm

*brightly* Where's Ed? I just got run outta my house 'cause of a tornado warning.

74 bitsy  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:26:17pm

#65 tum

No kidding! Where do I sign up to get those meals delivered to my house? It's free, right? I mean my tax dollars are paying for it and everything.

75 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:28:12pm

#67 really grumpy big dog johnson

Dude! Great post!

76 Luigi  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:28:42pm

Just in case this hasn't been run today.

The Ghost of General Patton

77 rightasrain  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:28:43pm

Israel's Arab prisoners are also getting fat.

The better these Islamic prisoners are treated, the more they complain about torture, etc.

78 Perelandra  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:29:38pm

#47 Merovign

Yo ho, yo ho a morally equivalent life for me...

79 Perelandra  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:32:18pm

#68 Earth2moonbat

You'd be surprised. It stings like a b****. My parents gave my little brother a nerf gun one time.

I learned to lock myself in the bathroom.

80 Elcid  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:33:19pm

67 really grumpy big dog johnson

75 Aladin Sane
Dude! Great post!

I second Aladin Sane's statement...excellent.

81 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:36:41pm

67 really grumpy

Great post...

Thanks...

Let them know that to be patriotic doesn't mean burning the flag to show that you believe in free speech, but by learning all you can from a wide variety of viewpoints to show that you believe in the underlying principle behind free speech, the inalienable right to freedom of THOUGHT - a responsibility that requires that you acquire knowledge to support your THINKING, not your indoctrination.

Freedom of Thought...

82 doppelganglander  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:36:53pm

#71 be the meat: You are so right. I don't think there's much hope for this generation unless we experience deprivation and sacrifice on the scale our parents (or grandparents) did during the great depression and WWII. My mother still has her ration book. Somehow I can't see my kids bravely doing without sugar and nylons to help support the troops.

83 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:36:53pm

In keeping with really grumpy's post, when someone talks about mistreatment at Gitmo, we need to say loud and clear "Gitmo isn't a prison, it's a country club!"

Remember the prison movies like Papillon (sp?) where the prisoners are in a dark cell and when the bowl of broth is given to them, they chop up the cockroaches and mix them in to get protein.?

How 'bout one of Gitmo, where after the honey roast chicken meal they turn up the airco?

Un-freaking believable!

84 TotallySirius  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:37:16pm

#63 Powderfinger

LOL

Definitely needs more heavy metals.

85 TotallySirius  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:37:43pm

Depleted uranium is one of my favorites.

86 Empire1  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:38:48pm

They eat better than enlisted military retirees do, and get much prompter medical care!

This is from personal experience; I'm still waiting for a late July appointment to get a new prescription for blood pressure meds. At that, I'm lucky -- still "young" enough to be on Tricare. My retiree husband got kicked onto Medicare last year. And we have to pay for what we get, despite what was promised during his entire career.

Me, upset? Now why would you ever think that?

/sarcasm

87 blackbeard  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:39:04pm

If you guys are into that whole "reading books" thing might I suggest "The Interrogators" by Chris Mackey and Greg Miller. It gives a fascinating first hand account about the war in Afghanistan and the role the interrogators played. We hear a lot of negativity from our beloved senators concerning interrogation preccedings but have any of you heard from someone who was there? If your interested the book might give you some insight into what exactly goes on there.

PS Keep up this type of commentary, Charles. It is exactly the type of news we need in order to counter the lefts barage of negativity.

88 Bunker Buster  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:39:22pm

About the menu...you have got to be friggin' kidding me. It's rare that I eat even a single meal as well-rounded as those provided to the GTMO detainees on any given day, let alone three times a day. These people have it better than they probably ever have in their entire miserable, murderous, fanatical lives, and Durbin gets on the Senate floor and says US troops are Nazis, Stalinists, Khmer Rouge? It is beyond outrageous.

89 TotallySirius  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:40:51pm

I knew a "Noodles" Jefferson,turned into a crackhead.

90 book&page  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:41:51pm

Just back from 5 days in the dog house (alright, the lizard pup house). Went to the end of this thread and saw some of my favorite posters are present.

Big dog - I owe you a Big apology from last week - I was in an obnoxious mood, knew I could get a rise out of you, and went with it. Pup's are like that - no excuse.

Got some interesting info from the past weekend re: what's involved with being a guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns from someone who's done the duty and has the wreath pin for his effort.

Will post more if wanted.

91 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:43:21pm

Thanks, Aladin Sane and elcid.

Occasionally inspired, out spews an above-average post. Mostly, I'm just too fucking pissed off to care.

I'll never be Abe Lincoln. THERE was a seriously serious soul.

But we can all dream. He inspired others then, and me now. And others now and in the future.

92 Yank in the EU  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:43:28pm

OT

If there is any question about the gulf between the quality of character of W versus that of German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, W resolved that today:

"US President George W. Bush has promised German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder that the United States would not block Germany's bid for a permanent seat on the UN Security Council."

[Link: www.dw-world.de...]

If the situations were reversed, would Schroeder do the same? Or, would he, like 54% of the German people, prefer China?

93 BabbaZee  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:43:29pm

#75 Aladin Sane
Yea, it is a good post....seems he's come a long way from telling me to go f*ck myself for no apparent reason one day, LOL!

94 PeterC  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:44:03pm

Hello all. This is my first post here, have been reading for a while. Hope to contribute more when I am little less busy.

95 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:45:36pm

93 BabbaZee

{Babba}

I didn't see the post you mentioned, not sure I want to...

96 Uncle BigBad  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:45:54pm

This is outrageous!

I demand they stop it at once.!

97 savate  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:46:01pm

I really hope this gets picked up by SOMEBODY and gets some coverage....oh but wait,

the LEFT will just say that he went on a guided tour and was not shown the REAL Gitmo (besides, the LEFT never believes anyone in uniform, but they'll believe any detainee, even though they are INSTRUCTED to lie and "complain of ill treatment" when captured)

98 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:46:29pm

94 PeterC

Welcome to LGF!

99 Yank in the EU  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:47:02pm

#92 addendum

This page has more relevant studies: PEW

100 BabbaZee  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:47:43pm

Hail Aladin -
I still dont understand why, but whatever. It was way out of the blue....Maybe the Iron Fist rule was in effect....

101 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:48:13pm

91 really grumpy big dog johnson

Occasionally inspired, out spews an above-average post.

Well, maybe my turn for inspiration will come pretty soon. It's gets a little old just saying f-you to people!

LOL!

102 PeterC  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:48:37pm

#98 Aladin Sane

Thanks. Have a Crim Pro test on Wednesday, so I won't be able to do too much till after it is done.

103 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:49:21pm

100 BabbaZee

Maybe the Iron Fist rule was in effect....

Been there, done that, and got the t-shirt my Queen!

104 Model4  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:50:02pm

Bah, I wish folks would stop talking about the food/menu at Gitmo. So long as the food is nourishing, adequate and somewhat palatable, it's a non-issue. If real torture's going on anywhere in the world, a truckload full of filet mignon isn't going to make up for it. It was a cute and informative point to make once or twice, but that's about it. I don't want to find myself in a Saudi prison and hear my government is certain I'm fine because they heard I was getting shrimp cocktail regularly.

The real issue is our traitors that want to believe in the absence of proof that our servicemen are guilty of a newly-defined standard of torture, and that the Geneva Conventions apply to monsters the conventions themselves explicity exclude.

105 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:50:53pm

102 PeterC

Thanks. Have a Crim Pro test on Wednesday, so I won't be able to do too much till after it is done.

Is that like Criminal Prosecution, or Crimean Primates?

106 rayra[deleted]  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:51:52pm
107 doppelganglander  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:52:09pm

#102 PeterC: Ah, a law student! (Okay, I had to google Crim Pro.) We have lots of lawyers here. Welcome!

108 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:52:29pm

And thank you to you too, Bubble Girl.


book&page:

If you search this blog for "tomb of the unknowns" or something similar to that you will find links to some extraodinarily excellent posts here about exactly that same subject.

Most people don't know that D.C. Marine Guard duty is considered among the most desirable duty stations in the world. Many Marines dream of that kind of duty but never get to experience it.

To guard the Tomb, that's just over the top.

109 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:52:57pm

104 Model4

I don't want to find myself in a Saudi prison and hear my government is certain I'm fine because they heard I was getting shrimp cocktail regularly.

I understand what you are saying, but the menu is an example (symptom?) of the care given to the detainees. Why give them the top shelf food only to torture?

110 EvilUncleAndy  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:53:08pm

Gee.. how much of the GWOT budget is going to fatten these sworn enemies of America up?

a la Marie Antoinette.. "Let them eat MRE's!"

Oh wait.. that would be torturous.

Nevermind....

111 foreign devil  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:53:11pm

Well...I'm retired now and have a fixed income and though I'm not hard-done-by at all, I couldn't afford to eat that menu all the time. Maybe a few meals from it in the month but not every day for a month, month in, month out. They are definitely eating better than I am. How about the rest of you, not to mention that it's labour-intensive as well.

112 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:54:21pm

This whole Politically Correct Movement can be traced back to the early 1960's... labeled the Kumbayah Effect...

Songs such as Puff the Magic Dragon and Blowin In the Wind, bombarded the airwaves... they seemed innocuous... Michael, Row Your Boat Ashore, and If I Had a Hammer, and Kumbayah, the granddaddy of them all...

The seeds of Political Correctness were sown...

113 FreakyBoy  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:55:51pm

Aladin Sane:

Why give them the top shelf food only to torture?

Because of sheer Rovian evilness of it....

;-)

114 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:55:58pm

112 Bubble Girl

The seeds of Political Correctness were sown...

And we thought we were doing something good as we passed the joints and thought about free love...

Funny how shit comes back to haunt you...

115 foreign devil  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:56:58pm

"Puff the Magic Dragon" was about chasing the dragon, wasn't it. But we were all so sappy and naive in te 60s (well...I was) that we didn't realize it then. G*d we were too stupid to live, weren't we?

116 bitsy  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:57:21pm

Being treated with mercy and kindness by a 'filthy kafir' might actually be torture for them.

117 theheat  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:57:57pm

Um... I think it's wonderful they're well treated and have hot meals and medical care, particularly in light of the fact they'd rather just kill people, and many of those people they'd rather kill (us) have to work either for or go without hot meals and medical care.

But I'd rather just plain kill them than warehouse them.

This isn't like collecting and storing a few thousand bottles of... nail polish... or canned cream of mushroom soup for some unforseen rainy day.

Stored - they are expensive, cause for criticism, and a potential liability. Dead - they pose no threat - and I (Joe Q America) don't have to pay to feed and take care of the miserable motherf*ckers.

118 harry9000  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:58:41pm
While it may not be exactly “Club GITMO,” as Rush Limbaugh uses to tweak the hard-Left critics who haven’t a clue about reality here,

Hard-Left? Hard-Left?

You mean plain o'le ever-day rank & file left, dont ya?

119 transferthem  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:59:24pm

The lack of amelioration of the uncivilised tendenices of this bacterial scum lead me to believe that they should be put on bread and water rations and shot if they touch any guard for any reason.

I'm sure the LLL would scream and froth at the mouth, in which case why not pass a bill to force LLL's who love nazi islamic terrorists to go to gitmo, relieve the US military, and look after their pals. Just get proper guards to ensure no excape.

I bet the LLL's would all be dead within a week or begging to be let out themselves.

120 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 3:59:28pm

113 FreakyBoy

Because of sheer Rovian evilness of it....

Ever see the old James Bond movies like "Dr. No"? Where they push a button and all the tables disappear into the floor, the roof opens up and the bomb-proof shutters close on the windows.

I'm imagining Rove at Gitmo when the MSM is touring, showing them the lavish meals, etc. As soon as the MSM leaves, he hits the button, the bunks flip over and turn into torture racks, etc...

/moonbat dream off

121 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:01:05pm

Gitmo shows just how desperate the Left is to find something, anything, to bring down the President. The MSM, the cohorts of the Left, banged the drums of Gitmo for weeks, months even, only to find the Public did not care whether or not someone pissed on a Koran.

Dick Durban took up the torch and nearly imploded with his outlandish comparisons to Gulags and the Holocaust and ended up getting spanked by Daley.

And Hillary sits back and keeps quiet. Waiting...

122 bitsy  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:02:34pm

#120 Aladin

I'm imagining Rove at Gitmo when the MSM is touring, showing them the lavish meals, etc. As soon as the MSM leaves, he hits the button, the bunks flip over and turn into torture racks, etc...

I bet they have the proof over at daily kos!

123 warren_the_patriott  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:02:35pm

I agree with the leftist liberals that we should shut down Gitmo.

We should execute all the terrorist murderers that are in there and any more subsequentially caught on the battlefield and then there is really no need for Gitmo (except maybe to intern liberal traitors).

124 Chris Allen  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:02:41pm

2800 calories and 3000 mg of sodium a day? Don't you see? That's how those fascist pigs are torturing the brave Islamic freedom fighters--with obesity and heart disease!

/LLL

125 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:03:35pm

121 Bubble Girl

Gitmo shows just how desperate the Left is to find something, anything, to bring down the President

It's not over yet. There was a letter to the editor in our little Ohio town's newspaper today, talking about how "Bush Lied".

I really think this is an orchestrated campaign of demo talking points. When one point looses steam, they bring up the next, hoping to tarnish this President.

Oh, and Hey BG!

126 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:03:39pm

Aladin @ 114

Sometimes I wonder if the guys back then thought "Free Love" meant "easier access?" Besides passing around a joint, what good did we do?

127 Infidel  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:04:04pm

It's good to read that not all Hawaii Democrats are Moonbats. My congressman Ed Case D-2nd just got back from Gitmo:

'"This is a group of the most dangerous of the dangerous. This is the distillation of the worst people we face out there," Case said. "The reality is we are at a very difficult war," he said... "It was clear after 9/11 that we needed a central facility to detain the most dangerous people we picked up on the field for interrogation. If we left them out in the world, they would try to kill again," Case said.'

[Link: 50thstar.blogspot.com...]

128 book&page  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:05:05pm

#108 Big Dog

I'll do the research - the info I got was from a friend of my folks who's son has the pin.

It's an amazing 2-year commitment, and then a lifetime commitment to retain the wreath pin. Awesome!

Had another good bit of news this weekend with them - read a letter from a friend of my younger brother (regular Army retired) who had befriended an Infantryman now in Iraq who survived the Bosnian war, became an American citizen, joined the Army and has now re-upped for another 3-year stint.

The report he has from the ground backs up everything we've heard from every non-MSM source - the Iraqi's are appreciative of our sacrifice and are increasingly trusting the troops and providing them with real-time info.

Thanks for your hot temper! - and cool forgiveness.

129 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:05:23pm
#115

foreign devil  6/27/2005 05:56PM PDT

"Puff the Magic Dragon" was about chasing the dragon, wasn't it. But we were all so sappy and naive in te 60s (well...I was) that we didn't realize it then. G*d we were too stupid to live, weren't we

LOL LOL Your last sentence... too funny!

130 Model4  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:05:43pm

#109 Aladin Sane: I understand what you're saying too, and think it's definitely indicitive. However, it's not terribly persuasive beyond getting it out there the first time. In fact, it even makes the presenter look cruel to our patriotic liberals. "Real torture is going on and this is a diversion!"

Would rather see the conversation where it belongs: "You, for some reason, believe our troops are torturers, despite any hard evidence to drive you to this conclusion. You also seem to want more legal representation and presumption of innocence extended to our enemies than you do toward our soldiers. Why?"

Likewise, I'd have served the prisoners the same food our troops eat all along (following religious proscriptions). Let our Kerry-voters expose themselves by screaming that the jihadi terrorists deserve better than Americans who volunteered to put their lives on the line for our defense. They'd walk right into it, and would have to have it explained to them why Americans find their objections so offensive.

131 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:06:21pm

126 Bubble Girl

Besides passing around a joint, what good did we do?

It felt good at the time, I guess...

Not to mention how messed up many of the boomer's kids became because of their enlightened upbringing...

Wait, that's a whole 'nother subject...

132 Uncle BigBad  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:06:32pm

Try this: Get the LLL moonbats to shut up about GITMO in exchange for giving the detainees this choice -

Each detainee can choose to

a: remain at GITMO

b: be transferred to a prison in Iraq
with eqivalent accomodations, where he
can be ministered to by a brother muslim
who can't be absolutely sure said
detainee didn't kill the guard's
second cousin.

133 Bubble Girl  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:08:26pm

Aladin @ 125

Yes, the Democrat talking points.... You float it out and see how it catches... at least you used too... Someone needs to tell the Dems they have lost the ability to recognize a non-issue because this daily grind of the Left and the MSM to keep going on and on about Gitmo has actually pissed more people off at them.... and not at the Government or the Military....

They preach to their own choir...

134 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:09:08pm

#115 foreign devil

Wee-ooh wim-o-weh. Wee-ooh wim-o-weh.
Wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh
o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-weh.
Wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh
o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-weh.

In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps tonight.
In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps tonight.

Wee-ooh wim-o-weh.
Wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh
o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-weh.
Wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh
o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-weh.

Near the village, the peaceful village, the lion sleeps tonight.
Near the village, the peaceful village, the lion sleeps tonight.

Wee-ooh wim-o-weh. Wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh
o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-weh.
Wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh
o-wim-o-weh o-wim-o-weh o-wim-weh.

Hush, my darling, don't fear, my darling, the lion sleeps tonight.
Hush, my darling, don't fear, my darling, the lion sleeps tonight.

Whuh whuh whuh wim-o-weh. Wee-ooh wim-o-weh wee-ooh
wim-o-weh wee-ooh wim-o-weh.

Sounds groovy, though. Courtesy of this link: [Link: www.lyricsexpert.com...]

135 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:12:47pm

Maybe we should start Feed a Starving Terrorist Foundation?

Only $1 a day can feed our enemies and secure the destruction of your country. Won't you?

136 Stop Hillary  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:13:04pm

I really think that liberals and the MSM are traitors for having trumped up these stories of abuse to aid our enemies and weaken our resolve. Dick Durbin is an traitor. His worthless apology means nothing. Newsweek and its "Koran Abuse" reporters are treasonous scum that should be tried for their crimes.

137 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:14:15pm

130 Model4

Would rather see the conversation where it belongs: "You, for some reason, believe our troops are torturers, despite any hard evidence to drive you to this conclusion. You also seem to want more legal representation and presumption of innocence extended to our enemies than you do toward our soldiers. Why?"

Agree, but if you add up the issuance of korans, prayer rugs, call to prayer 5 times a day, and the marking of squeaky floor sections not to be walked on by guards during prayer, you start to see the outline of the operation. Torture doesn't seem to fit in the equation...

138 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:16:13pm

#136

There is a fine line between freedom of speech and aiding and abetting our enemies.

I say bring back the House Committee on Un-American Activities (HUAC).

139 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:16:16pm

136 Stop Hillary

I really think that liberals and the MSM are traitors for having trumped up these stories of abuse to aid our enemies and weaken our resolve

Weakening our resolve is a side-effect. Their purpose is to bring about the impeachment of Bush. Plain and simple, and they don't care what the cost is...

140 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:17:28pm

#137

If by torture, you mean the liberal version which is making anyone feel unloved and uncomfortable.

141 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:18:49pm

Will this kindness and consideration change the jihadis' intent? I'm not optimistic at all, but I checked out some American-held POW history, and here is what I found.

Further, by bringing Axis POWs to the U.S., the Allies inadvertently defanged even the most ardent Nazi POWS and created “Little Ambassadors”. First, Nazi loyalists among the Germans saw that the wild and rabid anti-U.S. propaganda that they had been fed didn’t fit what they saw in America. Second, all German POWs learned by example what democracy looked like on a daily, personal basis. Third, after the German capitulation some were chosen for special “re-education” to counter lingering post-war Nazi ideology once backs in Europe. Fourth, most German POWs took with them to Germany news and views of America which, by and large, spoke well of the U.S.—the land of their victors and former “enemies”.
142 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:20:22pm

141 Ann

Will this kindness and consideration change the jihadis' intent? I'm not optimistic at all,

I'm not optomistic at all either. The laws of physics don't apply in the muslim world...

143 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:21:13pm

optomistic = optimistic

Jose Cuervo is my Friend...

144 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:23:38pm

I actually think exporting democracy without our values to the Middle East is dangerous.

Whatever civility exists in Islamic culture is in spite of the influence of Islam.

Besides, making Islam materialistic only provides them with capital to export jihad.

145 SwampWoman  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:24:31pm

#143 Aladin Sane

Jose Cuervo is my Friend...

No, I don't think he is.

146 foreign devil  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:24:48pm

#116 bitsy:

One can only hope! From your lips to G*d's ears!

147 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:25:28pm

#145 SwampWoman

No, I don't think he is.

But you are, aren't you Swampie?

148 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:26:24pm

#143 Aladin Sane

Jose Cuervo is my Friend...

Sir, I strongly recommend Milagro Silver...

149 book&page  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:26:32pm

#143 Alad

Sometimes, Gilbey's isn't my friend

Charles needs another acronym: P-OwWBMF!

150 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:28:31pm

148 reaganite

Evening reaganite. I hope all is well with you! I'll look up Milagro Silver next time I go to the liquor store...

Oops, Sir!

151 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:29:38pm

#142 Aladin Sane

The laws of physics don't apply in the muslim world...

I guess we are about to find out... had to re-capture a few that we released back into the wild, didn't we?

Um, quick - where is your salt shaker? -:)

152 greenmamba  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:29:59pm

On reflection, they should send these guys to the penal colony at Fawlty Towers:

I want a cell with a breeze. Is this one airy?
Well it's got air in it.

and:

My friend likes his chips Koran shaped. He's very highly strung.
Yes, he should be.
153 Sarah D.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:30:13pm

Tequila? Ack!

154 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:31:20pm

151 Ann

Um, quick - where is your salt shaker? -:)

Ask reaganite, I drink it with diet coke, no salt...

/ducks and runs...

155 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:32:30pm

#150 Aladin Sane

I'll look up Milagro Silver next time I go to the liquor store...

If you can't get the Silver, try the Reposato. Both are very good. I slightly prefer the Silver.

I hope all is well with you!

I'm doing really good, very short now.

I hope you're doing great!

156 sailordude  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:32:51pm

OT

The manner in which Fox News is exploiting the participants in the Natalie Holloway case is bordering on sick. It's obvious they have some kind of contractural aggreement with the families.

157 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:34:43pm

#154 Aladin Sane

I drink it with diet coke, no salt...

Sacrilege! Off with your head!

158 mich-again  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:35:38pm

The prisoners that are attacking soldiers and acting like wild animals are doing so because they have been treated too nicely. To be honest they need to have their asses kicked to within inches of their lives if there is any hope of ever making them act even a bit civilized.

Has coddling and pampering a spoiled kid that was having a tantrum ever worked even once? Of course not.

I wouldn't put up with that behavior from a dog or a child and I sure wouldn't put up with it from someone who tried to murder one of my friends or fellow soldiers.

Being nice and civilized in response to spitting, clawing, and attacks is just plain stupid. And completely counterproductive.
What Would Patton Do?

159 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:36:59pm
What Would Patton Do?

Uh, shoot them?

160 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:37:03pm

Echo #153 Sarah D.

Ack. Tequila!

With Diet Coke.

161 Oldprof  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:37:20pm

I remember WWII era C-rats two wars later. DAMN they are spoined

162 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:37:48pm

#157 reaganite

Sacrilege! Off with your head!

but, but, but, I drink it on a prayer rug, facing mecca, yeah, that's the ticket...

163 Sarah D.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:38:04pm

Diet Coke? Ack!

164 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:38:57pm

anyone else want to "Ack" Aladin?

165 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:39:39pm

The Leftist does not understand the nature of justice.

To them, rewarding bad behavior is just, despite the fact that it does nothing but encourage more of the same. It never helps the person they wish to change.

This is how they approach both foreign and domestic policy, and why it creates more evil and is doomed to failure.

166 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:40:34pm

#162 Aladin Sane

but, but, but, I drink it on a prayer rug, facing mecca, yeah, that's the ticket...

No excuse infidel!

Seriously, please, please, PLEASE! Don't mix Milagro with anything!

167 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:40:46pm

#162

Oh, in that case, we should provide you with a grant and maybe a chair at a university.

Any preferences?

168 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:40:54pm

#144 superninja

NOT exporting democracy to the Middle East is more dangerous by at least an order of magnitude.

It is only in the cesspools of hopelessness and stagnant society where the rich steal almost all from the poor, and only care enough about the disadvantaged to avoid an uprisising too large to be crushed by brutal military force; only in persistent societies not surrounded by reason will you see the ferment of the hatred that seeks to destroy all civilized achievement on this planet.

Ignore islamism and its causes, and you only provide coal for the fires of hatred. When people have the freedom to express themselves within reasonable limits without fear of disproportianately severe response; only then will you find the clear, refreshing pools of calm, tranquility, and social order.

We've been there, done that. They haven't.

169 sailordude  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:42:29pm

#166 reaganite

Not even fish tacos?

170 Kevin Shook  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:43:11pm

#144 Supaninja

I once read a quote by John Adams in which he claimed that democratic ideals can only work in a society based on Judeo-Christian values. A society based on any other values would shortly evolve into dictatorship, tyranny or worse. I have often wondered about ability of democracy to take root in Iraq. I know it has taken root in Japan, but it came at a very high price: A long occupation and a longer time at guaranteeing the defense of the Japanese.

On the flip side: I went to a luncheon and heard Pulitzer Prize winning historian David mcCullough speak. He wrote the biographies on Truman and John Adams and recently came out with a military hisotry of the first year of our Revolution called 1776. A gentlemen in the audience how the current war in Iraq comppared with the Revolution. He said that they can't be compared. But by studying the Revolution, he realizes that Democracy can not just appear somewhere, it has to be struggled for. Our Forefathers struggled for Democracy and our independence. It was not a foregone conclusion. By late fall of 1776, the overwhelming majority of Americans were against the War and Independence. Our Forefathers were able to turn it around. In comparison to Iraq, it will be a struggle for Democracy to take root and at times it may seem hopeless. But, with over 51% of the Iraqis participating in the Election last January (and they did so under threat of death) he beleives that there is hope that the struggle will be successful. I would have to agree.

171 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:43:35pm

166 reaganite

Seriously, please, please, PLEASE! Don't mix Milagro with anything!

Me and the Sane Family don't eat meat. You remind me of the guy at the Japanese restaurant here in town. We asked him to order sushi grade tuna, so we could cook a tuna pot-roast for one of the holidays.

He delivered the fish, and begged me, "Please don't cook it..."

172 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:44:44pm

#165 superninja

despite the fact that it does nothing but encourage more of the same. It never helps the person they wish to change.

Ann posted a link above describing how hard core Nazis were swayed by our treatment of them as POWs during WWII.

I agree it's a remote chance that it will work with the jihadis. But this war is just the opening round of a long war to come. I would prefer to try the easy way before we are forced to kill them on the wholesale basis.

173 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:44:48pm

#168

Democracy without cornerstone values, though? We are not where we are for a lack thereof.

The root causes of Islamicism is Islam, pure and simple. Islam is not capable of reforming. Just ask any Muslim!

174 jlfintx  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:46:09pm

Okay, do I have to get my dictionary?

What is Milagro Reaganite/Aladin S?

175 mich-again  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:46:14pm

165 superninja

True. It is said that you will always get more of whatever you subsidize. I certainly don't blame the soldiers for being nice to the prisoners - I'm sure they are under very strict direction. But those in charge are foolish to permit the disrepect shown by the prisoners to the guards. That aint no way to run a prison.

176 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:46:41pm

#172

I am not advocating killing on a wholesale basis. Nor am I suggesting to leave them to kill each other.

What I am suggesting is exporting Judeo-Christian values to the ME.

Islam is a curse on the people of the ME.

177 It's Miss Donna V. to you  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:46:41pm
Sometimes the world seems morally inverted.

Sometimes?

Now they fed them what I ate in a British dormitory once,...,the daily game was "What kind of meat are we eating?" One day we decided that the squishy gray thing on our plate had to be boiled mouse with brown gravy.

178 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:46:51pm

#168 really grumpy big dog johnson
You're on a roll tonight. Great post.

179 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:48:47pm

#170

I don't have a lot of confidence in an Iraqi Constitution based on Islamic law.

The problem is this: should they ever decide to dispense with Islam (necessary for peace and prosperity if you ask me) what will their Constitution be worth, then?

Also, whatever good does happen there will take many generations because of the indocrination of hate in the ME/Muslim culture.

180 RebTex  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:48:57pm

#165 Super Ninja
"To them, rewarding bad behavior is just, despite the fact that it does nothing but encourage more of the same"
.
.
.
They believe this because that's how a lot of them were raised.
That's why they throw such tantrums when they don't win.
I'm tellin' you, that Dr.Spock should be SHOT!

181 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:50:41pm

#171 Aladin Sane

He delivered the fish, and begged me, "Please don't cook it..."

Have you ever had a drink of "cooking" wine? It's the foulest crap! But for cooking it's great.

Milagro is a very fine Tequila. If you want to mix it, it's really not worth the money. If you like the taste by itself, it's very much worth it.

182 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:50:49pm
It is only in the cesspools of hopelessness and stagnant society where the rich steal almost all from the poor, and only care enough about the disadvantaged to avoid an uprisising too large to be crushed by brutal military force; only in persistent societies not surrounded by reason will you see the ferment of the hatred that seeks to destroy all civilized achievement on this planet.

Ever read the Koran? They are following instructions and believing themselves to be godly.

Look at the history of Islam and it's ability to make war and conquer cultures, sucking up their resources and contributing little, if nothing.

Again, it is Islam which is the problem.

183 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:51:28pm

#180

I believe Dr. Spock did recant later in life.

184 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:51:39pm

181 reaganite

Milagro is a very fine Tequila. If you want to mix it, it's really not worth the money. If you like the taste by itself, it's very much worth it.

I'll try it and report back...

185 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:52:21pm

#174 jlfintx
Hit my (I think) first post, it's a GREAT Tequila.

186 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:53:36pm

reaganite, coming from you that is indeed an honor. I'm sure you know that you are one of my most favorite posters, your foundation is your anchor.

I wish I'd found mine sooner...

Much sooner.

187 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:54:47pm

Ya gotta love LGF!

188 Cartman  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:55:07pm

#158 mich-again

Being nice and civilized in response to spitting, clawing, and attacks is just plain stupid. And completely counterproductive. What Would Patton Do?

Not sure, but I'm guessing he's rolled over a few times in his dirt-nap resting place. George never gave much of a rat's ass for public opinion. That characteristic eventually proved to be his albatross, even when one whistfully recalls more politically "civilized" times. The poor bastard and his iron will, resolve and ivory-gripped Colts wouldn't stand a chance in today's moonvana-like ideological circus. RIP, George.

189 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:55:15pm

#176 superninja

What I am suggesting is exporting Judeo-Christian values to the ME.

Would you accept islamic "principles"?

I agree that that would be the optimum choice (I'm agnostic, BTW), but not realistic. They won't accept it. Not without generations of influence.

190 jlfintx  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:55:34pm

Jebus, I feel really stchoopid right about now.

191 RebTex  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:56:04pm

Super Ninja
It was too late.
A generation of non-self-reliant,whiney kids slipped through.
Now, we ALL pay the piper.

192 hepcat  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:56:36pm

Noodles Jefferson?
Noodles Jefferson?
Named after Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson - the slaveowner?!

193 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:57:04pm

189 reaganite

OT

What ever happened to Bigel? I thought I saw that he got banned...

194 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:57:18pm

#184 Aladin Sane

I'll try it and report back...

Please don't cook it! :-Þ

195 Prester John  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:57:47pm

Sorry if someone else has mentioned this, but these visits will only give the dhimmwits another "scandal" to blame on W i.e our enemy prisoners have better food and accomodations than our own troops in the field....we need a congressional investigation, fire Rumsfeld, impeach Bush etc etc.

196 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:58:22pm

194 reaganite

Please don't cook it! :-Þ

Aye-Aye Sir!

197 RightIsRight  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 4:59:37pm
Have you ever had a drink of "cooking" wine? It's the foulest crap! But for cooking it's great.


BLECHHHHH... "Cooking Wine" is high proof (for wine), very high salt content nastiness.

That said, as teens, we used to buy 10-15 bottles of it when we couldnt get the real stuff. Talk about nasty hangovers...

198 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:00:22pm

reaganite,

If you want to trick them and tell them they're Islamic fine.

I know we can't use anything that suggests Jews around that part of the world without a pavlovian response.

199 Kevin Shook  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:00:28pm

#179

Which could be said of Japan and Germany in 1945, also. It will take generations to change the Middle East and a lot of lives. But what do we risk if we don't do anything? Do you want your children or grandchildren or great grandchildren to live under the tyranny of the Islamo-facists? I don't want to be know as the generation of Americans who caved in when the tough got going. I don't want to be seen like others in history who didn't do the right and moral thing when things got tough.

And who knows, a Democratic Iraq my be able to set off a Reformation of Islam. Remember, the West didn't go universal and exclusive Catholicism to secular Democracies that strive to tolerate all religions in the period of a few years. It took centuries. Having a Democratic Iraq (no matter how influenced by Islam)that strives toward the principals of freedom and human rights, next door to some of the most totalitarian forms is Islamic governing will bring hope to the oppressed in the Middle East and a chance for freedom.

200 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:03:19pm

#186 really grumpy big dog johnson
Sir, you've been a long stand stalwart of principles on LGF.

Like me, you get pissed at the broad brushing that goes on here.

You've always been far more articulate than I. I tend towards the brusque, first.

201 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:03:21pm

Kevin

The thing is, the Reformation went back to the original scriptures.

Islam has nowhere to go. It cannot reform by nature because Muslims will not recant the war verses. The later more violent verses override the earlier more peaceful ones.

I've spoken to Muslims about this, and they are honest and admit that they will never exclude them because even to non-jihadis it provides them with legality for self-defense.

And besides their #1 goal is to convert the world to Islam.

202 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:03:41pm

superninja,

Do yo presuppose that if Christianity had festered as the principle religious orientation of the ME instead of Islam, and that Islam had been the majority religion of our country, that things would be different?

Don't blame the religion, because Christianity and many other religions have gone through a reform process. That process was only enabled through other rights gathered slowly over many centuries.

In 1970 when I was stationed in Jacksonville, Florida, all those who weren't white went to the back of the bus. The white taxi drivers wouldn't pick up a stranded black man on the road in a hurricane. And the slums rivaled those of Rio de Janiero. Downtown Jax had drinking fountains with labels that read "whites" and "colored and other".

Time and history are on our side. That was before horrible riots in that town that changed the face of racial bigotry forever in the deep South. We aren't so divorced from own own history that we can ignore the perils we perpetuated upon our society by our own irrational hatreds.

So show a little bit of leniency here, because just as not all Christians are good people, neither are all Muslims people who wish others than themselves to be dead or enslaved. Things are not remotely as well-delineated as that.

203 T. Jefferson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:04:15pm

I have a sneaky feeling that if I worked at GITMO as a guard and received this kind of disrespect, I would be up on charges for murder. Literally.

You are right to worry about inhumane treatment taking place at GITMO. But your concern should be for the dedicated, well-trained, highly professional American men and women who are subjected to a daily barrage of feces, urine, semen, and spit hurled at them along with vile invective as they implement a humane, enlightened system of confinement on men who want nothing more than to kill Americans. These quiet professional Americans, who live under the motto “Honor Bound for Defense of Freedom,” deserve our utmost respect and concern. Shame on anyone who slanders or disrespects them for short-term and short-sighted political advantage.
204 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:05:04pm

#193 Aladin Sane

What ever happened to Bigel? I thought I saw that he got banned...

He did, Charles asked that the matter be dropped.

205 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:05:58pm

204 reaganite

He did, Charles asked that the matter be dropped.

Dropped it is...

206 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:06:19pm

#197 RightIsRight

Talk about nasty hangovers...

I bet!

207 mich-again  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:06:25pm

Look for a minute at Iran. Their economy is mired in abject poverty even though they have the 2nd most known reserves of the world's most valued commodity, fossil fuels. Their new "president", who is really just the unelected "Supreme Leader's" Beeyotch won by promising more economic opportunity for the poor. (read handouts and welfare)

If Islamists can't figure out how to make an economy work while they are sitting on a veritable "Money Tree" what in the world makes them think they could run the rest of the world where resources are scarce and people need to rely on ingenuity and creativity?

The most sure product of Islam for a country is poverty and helplessness. What we are watching now are Islam's death spasms, which unfortunately might last decades.

208 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:07:07pm

really grumpy big dog johnson

Those things existed in our country in spite of the commandments in the Bible.

What differentiates Christianity from Islam is that if Christians do evil, it goes against the Bible. This is just not so with Islam, I am sorry.

Our country's founding is DIRECTLY tied to the Reformation. There is no question of this. Other factors also influenced it, so I am not discrediting them.

But no, our country would not exist such as it does today if Islam had won the Crusades.

209 another brick in the hall  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:07:10pm

Reading this shit makes me wanna go postal.

In Gitmo.

500 cockroaches.

1000 rounds.

Then they can shut 'er down.

210 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:08:16pm

#207

Yep, Islam is sure on the decline in Africa!

211 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:08:26pm

#198 superninja

If you want to trick them and tell them they're Islamic fine.

Would you believe it?

You're making the assumption that they are stupid. They are not.

212 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:10:41pm

#201 superninja

And besides their #1 goal is to convert the world to Islam.

The Mormons have the same goal...

I was married to one once.

213 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:12:02pm

#211

I was being sarcastic.

No, they are not stupid. However they have an irrational hatred of Jews, they are paranoid and suspicious by nature and highly irrational.

That is because their foundation, Islam, is irrational.

Read Arab op-ed articles. They even admit it.

214 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:12:32pm

#212

Yes, look out for the Mormon jihad! Get real man.

215 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:13:10pm

That was too many irrationals. Sorry.

216 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:14:00pm

Also - honor based cultures are problematic.

Look what it took to stop the Japanese during WWII.

217 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:14:42pm

superninja,

What differentiates Christianity from Islam is that if Christians do evil, it goes against the Bible. This is just not so with Islam, I am sorry.


The reform movements not yet experienced by Islam were as a result of extreme external pressures, pressures on their faith that required them to reform. It wasn't self-analysis that caused it to happen.

Unless we apply harsh external pressure on Islam they won't be compelled to reform.

Give our "reform" pressure a chance before you condemn one-sixth of mankind to your eternal damnation. Almost half of those you condemn aren't even 18 years old yet.

218 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:16:04pm

#217 really grumpy big dog johnson

You are mistaken if you believe I wish to condemn all of these people to damnation.

Political correctness will not save their children from the same fate as their forefathers.

219 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:16:20pm

#205 Aladin Sane
If you want to shoot me an email, I'll explain.

220 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:17:31pm

Via Instapundit:
Roger L Simon gets it.
Andrew Sullivan does not.

[Link: www.rogerlsimon.com...]

221 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:18:02pm

#209 another brick in the hall
This is Charles' house. He does not appreciate comments like that.

222 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:19:10pm

219 reaganite

I can't email from this machine, but you can reach me at Sane(dot)Aladin(at)gmail(dot)com.

223 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:20:05pm
The reform movements not yet experienced by Islam were as a result of extreme external pressures, pressures on their faith that required them to reform. It wasn't self-analysis that caused it to happen.

The Reformation of Christianity occurred because of unjust government and as response to the rise of humanism.

It was internal, not external. And it was exactly due to self-analysis.

224 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:21:02pm

#213 superninja

Read Arab op-ed articles. They even admit it.

I have years in the mid-east. I'd bet I have talked to and even drank with more muslims than you have ever seen.

225 another brick in the hall  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:21:55pm

#203 T. Jefferson
I have a sneaky feeling that if I worked at GITMO as a guard and received this kind of disrespect, I would be up on charges for murder. Literally.
*************************************8

Does a pig blood encrusted bullet retain it's accuracy?

226 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:22:06pm

#216 superninja

Look what it took to stop the Japanese during WWII.

It took a lot. Of lives, time and money. But it happened.

I will never see the end of this one in my lifetime.

After watching nothing happen after Munich, the Achille Lauro Hijacking, Beirut, Iran hostages, German disco bombings... I am glad that I am at least seeing the start of something. I like it, and I am a patient person.

The end result is what matters. Not what is convenient for our generation.

227 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:22:09pm

#224

Okay, you win the hanging-with-Muslims contest. What's your point?

228 Craig  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:22:13pm

But, but, but the typical daily diet shows almost 3000 mg of sodium. What are we trying to do, kill these accidental battlefield tourists with hypertension? The shame, I must turn in my WASP card and dress in sackcloth and ashes.

229 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:22:57pm

#214 superninja

Yes, look out for the Mormon jihad! Get real man.

It's a religion with a goal. Islam has the exact same goal. So do many others.

You "get real". You don't have a clue.

230 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:23:06pm

#226 Ann

I agree, we are in this for the long haul. However, I would like it to be as productive as possible for all parties as we move in that direction!

231 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:24:15pm

#229 Reaganite

Yes, those Buddhists goals are absolutely deadly.

232 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:25:53pm

229 reaganite

You "get real". You don't have a clue.

You guys go ahead and talk, I'll just push some of these tables and chairs out of the way.

Y'all take the young'uns home now...

233 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:25:59pm

So superninja,

Give us your alternative. Thus far you have advanced that Islam is wrong and must be eliminated from the planet. I haven't seen where you expected the younger ones to abandon the religion, or older adherents.

What's your answer? What you are broadcasting here is wholesale condemnation of those who practice that religion, and you haven't offered the out.

What is the out? What saves the ones who refute this religion? I'm a bit confused, it's as though you don't believe that they can reform, but that a bolt of lightning will somehow make things right. Having a viewpoint is fine, describing a path to a better place is a whole lot more useful.

And saying that you don't want something when just before you just said you did is entirely confusing to me.

234 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:26:58pm

Reaganite, if a Christian murders trying to convert someone, not only do they not have a convert, but they are breaking God's commandments.

Meanwhile, the Koran says to kill unbelievers if they will not convert, and to make them submit to jizya. They are also to live in dhimmitude so as not to insult their betters.

235 another brick in the hall  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:27:22pm

reaganite:

I said "it makes me wanna" not "I'm gonna"

It just really pisses me off the way these scum are mommy-coddled while our boys are spit on and blown to pieces

I respect Charles house and Reagan BTW

/not purchased any *extra* ammo yet

236 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:27:25pm

#222 Aladin Sane
Check your mail.

237 hepcat  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:28:44pm

I'd be interested in having Natan Sharansky visit GITMO and comment - since he spent 13 years in a real gulag.

238 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:28:45pm

#227 superninja

Okay, you win the hanging-with-Muslims contest. What's your point?

That you don't know shit.

239 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:31:22pm

#230 superninja

I would like it to be as productive as possible for all parties as we move in that direction!

We are being very, very productive. I am under the impression that you do not agree. If you don't, what elso would you like to see happening right now?

240 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:31:40pm

#232 Aladin Sane

Y'all take the young'uns home now...

I have PT at O-Dark-Early, I'm out soon.

This sitcom, all the world's problems are solved in 30 minutes, clown will have to be dealt with by someone else.

241 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:32:53pm
The Reformation of Christianity occurred because of unjust government and as response to the rise of humanism.

It was internal, not external. And it was exactly due to self-analysis.

So let me get this straight. Christianity reformed as a result of self-analysis and their governments didn't like them anymore. As a result they either fled for a new land or overthrew or attempted to overthrow their governments.

Now I have it straight. I thought I was arse-backwards.

242 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:35:23pm

#235 another brick in the hall

I said "it makes me wanna" not "I'm gonna"

Charles' site is cherry picked daily. The MSM attack him because of post, even though he clearly posts a disclaimer.

I'm a firm believer it not giving Charles' enemies any ammunition.

243 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:37:06pm

#241 really grumpy big dog johnson
The mandatory membership in the Church of England inspired some interesting folks like Jefferson, Madison and Payne...

244 unclassifiable  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:37:59pm

Maybe we should shut down Gitmo and transfer them to a nice state facillity like...

Attica

or maybe

San Quentin

or if they wanted to go "uptown"...

Huntsville, Texas

245 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:38:31pm

240 reaganite

This sitcom, all the world's problems are solved in 30 minutes, clown will have to be dealt with by someone else.

Aladin is out soon too! It'll get resolved...

246 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:39:24pm

really grumpy big dog johnson

Protecting apostates and non-Muslims would be a good start, don't you think?

Why if I disagree with Islam and believe it cannot reform equal me wanting them to all be condemned?

247 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:40:12pm

#243 Ann

But don't forget that it was reform that caused struggle.

;^))

248 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:40:22pm

#241 really grumpy big dog johnson
Awesome, just awesome. Thank you, sir.

249 Abdullah al-Libi  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:41:00pm

The Gitmo detainees deserve only one type of meal - French Toast served three times per day, and prepared a la Road Trip style.

Then tell the detainees where their food has been. I doubt they will consider it halal.

250 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:41:33pm

I never suggested solving the world's problems in 30 minutes.

251 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:42:25pm

#247 really grumpy big dog johnson

But don't forget that it was reform that caused struggle.

Isn't she incredible?

252 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:42:55pm

#245 Aladin Sane

Aladin is out soon too! It'll get resolved...


Not tonight! I'll raise ya' five!

253 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:43:56pm

#250 superninja

I never suggested solving the world's problems in 30 minutes.

60, tops?

254 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:43:58pm

250 superninja

never suggested solving the world's problems in 30 minutes.

I'm thinking you had a quibble with reaganite, and it was misundertood as an argument.

No problem, happens to me all the time.

Reaganite, if it's a quibble are you okay?

255 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:44:13pm

#251

Wow, so all of these problems are being caused by a struggle in Islam to reform? I had no idea.

Guess we should turn out Gitmo now.

256 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:45:23pm

Strike #254

257 GeeWiz  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:47:45pm

The islamofacists have never studied history for it's not covered in the Koran. As Admiral Yamamoto once said, "I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." They have no idea of the size of "the giant".

They, like many others, need to study history. I forget, if it isn't in the Koran, it doesn't exist. They have no idea, that 9/11 awakened the sleeping giant(at least those of us at LGF). May they get their 72 virgins ASAP!

258 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:48:15pm

#254 Aladin Sane

Reaganite, if it's a quibble are you okay?

From a shirt I have:

Arguing with an EOD Tech is like wrestling with a pig. Everybody gets dirt and the pig loves it!
259 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:48:23pm

#256 Aladin Sane

Strike #254

Too late!

260 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:50:10pm

Okay reaganite. I give. How is Islam going to reform?

261 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:50:22pm

#255 superninja

Guess we should turn out Gitmo now.

You're a bright one aren't you?

262 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:50:33pm

#258 reaganite

My favorite is;

"Never try to teach a pig to sing. You'll only waste your time and piss-off the pig..."

263 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:51:45pm

259 Ann

Too late!

Double LGF leniency invoked...?

264 Mcgyver  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:52:00pm

No microwavable pork rinds?

They don't know what they are missin' That's torture!

Mcgyver, out

265 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:52:35pm

reaganite

Yes, she is.

266 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:54:18pm

#257 GeeWiz

The islamofacists have never studied history for it's not covered in the Koran. As Admiral Yamamoto once said, "I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." They have no idea of the size of "the giant".

They studied Dhimmi Carter and Slick Willy. Hit the US hard enough, they run. They never understood our politics. They never expected W to do anything.

267 jhow66  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:55:17pm

I say every time they attack a guard change their menu to gunbutt-force fed.

268 Apollo11  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:56:19pm

There are people out there with a very skewed definition of torture.

Nekkid pyramids?
Christina Aguillara music?

Hell, throw in some alcohol and you have yerself a kick-ass frat party. The only difference is that they have lamp shades on thier heads when they do thier nekkid pyramids.

Wether you're talking about Abu G or Gitmo, the same skewed definition is being applied.

Now if they were playing John Tesh or Zamfir (master of the pan flute).... Definately torture.

269 Sarah D.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:57:20pm

Ah, fun time tonight I see. Almost makes Calculus look good!

Hey Big Grumpy! Ann! Reaganite! Aladin!

270 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:57:48pm

#260 superninja

I give. How is Islam going to reform?

I have posted my opinion all through this thread. You, on the other hand, have only whinged. The question is, what is you answer? You have been repeatedly asked and have offered no ideas.

271 Mcgyver  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:58:28pm

OK, now I'm gonna skim the threads. Hi! all you new people! (Did Charles add a deck?) I see reaganite and ann and Aladin Sane and Really GBDJ are here... Who else

Ok off we go (I sound like my ADHD Not-son)

Mcgyver, out (exploring the threads)

272 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:58:40pm

269 Sarah D.

Hey Sarah, mind if I "ack" back atcha?

LOL

I don't care...

273 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:58:50pm

#260 superninja

The leaders will reform when their power is lost. The intimidation tactics of those who have power in islam has worked since after WWII. Those days ended on 9/12/01. They just don't know it yet.

274 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:59:31pm

#262 Aladin Sane

"Never try to teach a pig to sing. You'll only waste your time and piss-off the pig..."

You calling me a pig? :-Þ

275 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 5:59:54pm

Ann,

Mind helping me moving these chairs, tables and shit out of the way....?

276 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:01:25pm

#265 really grumpy big dog johnson

Yes, she is.

I have Charles to thanks for meeting her.

277 Sarah D.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:01:30pm

Aladin,

Ack is okay. It keeps our insides sane. They usually know what's best.

Is the thread upstairs now? I'll go check.

278 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:01:34pm

#274 reaganite

You calling me a pig? :-Þ

Never, Sir! Only suggesting that you don't waste your valuable time...

Like I'd call reaganite a pig... When pigs fly...

279 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:02:36pm

#269 Sarah D.
*passing Sarah a shot of Tequila*

280 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:03:22pm

#277 Sarah D.

{Sarah D.}

281 Malleus Dei  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:03:46pm

The Democrats have lost what little wits they had left over Gitmo.

The Democrats, for political gain, are kissing the butts of terrorists who want to kill us all.

I thought the Democratic Party had to pull out of its nosedive after it was stupid enough to nominate Mister Anti-American himself for president.

But I was wrong. There is no dumpster too foul for the Democratic Party to dive into, no toilet too gross for them to lick, no gutter too low for them to crawl in. They will support any evil rather than admit that George Bush is right in the War on Terror and that they are utterly, totally, and absolutely wrong. It makes me wonder why some of the more extreme moonbats don't just join al-Qaeda and be done with it; after all, they seem to want exactly the same thing.

God help this country, for the Democrats sure won't.

282 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:04:09pm

#269 Sarah D.

Ah, fun time tonight I see. Almost makes Calculus look good!


You just gave me a really bad flashback of a Professor from India with a really bad accent. All of us in the calculus class just looked at him, horrified. He then apologized for his laryngitis.

shiver

283 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:04:17pm

#278 Aladin Sane
Are you coming to the Texas BBQ?

284 GeeWiz  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:04:37pm

#266 reganite

They will never understand the "American resolve". They get their marching orders from the MSM. That's why I added the quote from Yamamoto. He, as our enemy, "got it". They never will. They don't understand that the MSM really doesn't speak for the American people. Yamamoto "got it". They never will.

I brought this up to help "us" focus on who the real enemy is. May we focus our collective anger on those that truely deserve it.

285 sadiesmog  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:04:46pm

Give 'em some rat meat and a little rice

286 really grumpy big dog johnson  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:05:44pm

#268 Apollo11

At the University of Colorado, banned frat initiations this last school year led directly or indirectly to the deaths of two young students on campus, both really promising people who chose to conform to a silly dogmatic tradition that ultimately killed them.

Who knows how many have died at Gitmo?

Other than the confirmed number, none.

But we need to focus on the BIG problem, torture of non-uniformed combatants without affiliation to the country in which they were captured. That's a lot more important than our children dying because fratboys say drink this, and drink it all or we won't let you go down off this mountain.

Torture has been practiced in countless forms since the beginning of history. Oftentimes, the torture is endured because of a perceived benefit to the tortured. Often however, as in the case of serial killers and frats, the results can be negative, in spite of the perception of the abused.

287 Sarah D.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:06:44pm

#279 reaganite

Fine. But you are now responsible for my actions! I'll try to be good.

:-D

288 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:07:17pm

283 reaganite

Are you coming to the Texas BBQ?

No, I would sweat my ass off, get drunk, and probably piss everyone off...

Like my dad used to say about being tarred and feathered and rode out of town on a rail...

If not for the honor, I'd rather walk...

It would be a great time, but Aladin is better at home...

289 Ann  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:08:11pm

#275 Aladin Sane

Mind helping me moving these chairs, tables and shit out of the way....?

I thought that they were already thrown against the wall. Oh wait, just a couple more

ducks empty beer bottle

to move aside.

There!

290 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:08:35pm

#284 GeeWiz
Yamamoto was the epitome of a military officer. He offered his advice of not attacking America. He then carried out his orders. He knew what was coming. I wish islam was half as smart as Yamamoto.

291 Sarah D.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:09:10pm

Aladin, thanks!


Ann,

I had a College Algebra prof who had an accent so bad I didn't recognize my name when she called roll.

I dropped the class.

Can you believe some smartass made a 110 on the last exam, totally screwing the curve for me? Sheesh.

292 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:09:18pm

289 Ann

ducks empty beer bottle

I can see why you and reaganite are happy...

293 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:10:10pm

#287 Sarah D.

Fine. But you are now responsible for my actions!

No way! You're a full grown lizard!

294 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:11:22pm

#288 Aladin Sane

No,

Bummer, I'd love to have a drink with you.

295 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:11:26pm

So what happened to superninja?

296 Sarah D.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:12:44pm

#293 reaganite

Tequila causes me to regress...and you offered it.

Maybe I should stick to beer.

297 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:12:59pm

294 reaganite

Bummer, I'd love to have a drink with you

I think it's in the cards that we will hook-up somtime...

298 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:13:04pm

#295 Aladin Sane

So what happened to superninja?

No answers...

299 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:14:07pm

#296 Sarah D.

Tequila causes me to regress...and you offered it.

I only go back to 13, how about you?

300 reaganite  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:15:14pm

#297 Aladin Sane
I'd drink with you any time.

I'm out folks, PT in 7 1/2 hours.

301 Sarah D.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:15:39pm

Aladin,

C'mon! Don't be a stranger! If I have to spend all that money to get to Texas, the least you can do is show up and piss me off!

I'd feel deprived without that!

302 GeeWiz  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:15:50pm

#290 reaganite

Islam is no where as wise as Yamamoto. It's called "know thy enemy". As I said before, if it isn't in the koran, they are clueless. They have no idea what they are up against. My only hope is that the American public see's this through as they did during the cold war even tho they don't see the threat as serious.

303 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:16:05pm

reaganite,

I just spent 10 min. trying to get back on this topic.


Anyway, I did offer some suggestions, like exporting our values and protecting non-Islamic individuals and apostates by law.

And if I offended you in anyway, I do apologize.

304 Grandma  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:18:03pm

#260, superninja,

Not that reaganite needs anyone to speak for him, but I’ll take the risk and answer anyhow. Islam will not and cannot reform. Reform has already been excluded right from the beginning, and that’s exactly the way Allah likes it. And as far as “exporting” Judeo-Christian values to the middle east, did it occur to you that the middle east was the source for both? And along come Big Mo’, twisted both around, dreamt up the Koran, and promoted every indecency that humankind could ever imagine to keep it going. Islam appeals to everything that is corrupt, evil, carnal, power-hungry and earthly (not spiritual) in mankind. The billion+ today who keep it going don’t have to worry about my condemnation; they’ve already separated themselves, and haven’t even figured out yet that in this world they are already suffering for it. Just imagine what awaits them in the next. I don’t have any answers about how to defeat it, but I think that our generation is beginning to realize that de-bunking the myth is the best start.

305 Aladin Sane  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:19:20pm

300 reaganite

I'm sure we'll have a drink sometime.

In the meantime, I'm gone.

g'night all.

Aladin out!

306 wanumba  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:19:42pm

Karl Rove is cleverer than I thought.
The plan at Gitmo is to overstuff the prisoners until they are suddenly promnounced needing of diets and exercise. Amnesty International demands something be done...Send them around the block when they weigh in at 400 lbs a piece, they keel over from heart attacks and voila! Problem solved.

Interesting variation on the Biblical advice to be kind to your enemy so that every nice deed you do to him will be like hot coals on his head.

307 superninja  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:19:46pm

#304

I am in agreement with you. That is why I brought up the point about legal protection for those who wish to exit Islam.

308 Sarah D.  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:21:08pm

#304 Grandma

It is the shadow religion.

309 cavy  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:28:48pm

I guess this topic is now Moot. I saw Sheila "Jackson" Lee (I wish I could type "Jaaackssonnnn" like Rush says it!) in an interview on Fox News. She was with the delegation that visited Gitmo this past week-end. She "said" that "Things have certainly improved at Gitmo". Of course this will only "hold" until she can get back to Washington and on the floor of the House. Then I suppose it will be back to all the "horrors" of Gitmo. She is a true patriot!

Right?

310 In Vino Veritas  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:50:35pm

The 'welfare queens' are about ready to protest.

311 Stuck-in-CA  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 6:57:59pm

The LT. Colonel was just interviewed on the radio (Larry Elder's show) and you could tell he thinks this whole brouhaha over Gitmo is just ridiculous, he thinks Dickhead Durbin is a seditious horse's ass, and he's pissed that those monsters in Gitmo are eating better and living in better conditions than our soldiers in Iraq & Afghanistan. His website is pretty good....it's [Link: www.colonelgordon.com...]

312 Stuck-in-CA  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 7:04:08pm

Cucullu also said the prisoners are seen by doctors multiple times a month! Can you believe this sh*t? Hell...I can't even afford to go multiple times a YEAR! This is freaking ridiculous. I want tougher people making these decisions. Bush has turned out to be WAY too PC because of the MSM. I hate their ____ing guts.

313 eminencefront  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 7:09:42pm

What I can't understand is the fierce resistance after being captured.

These people grew up dirt poor, pretty much living in squalor. Now, though they may be in "prison" they are well fed, treated humanely and given proper medical attention.

I am currently making my way through Robert Spencer's excellent book, "The Myth of Islamic Tolerance" (which has been an eye-opener to say the least) and it has become quite clear that fanatical worship of Islam is a very powerful ideology.

However, does the kind treatment we show to these people have no effect at all? Does not one ray of sunlight pierce the iron wall of Islamic mind control? I mean, they weren't born Muslim fanatics, they were indoctrinated to be that way. What are they rebelling against? Eating good food and having proper religious freedom?

I realize that this may come off sounding naive. Believe me, I have no love lost for most of these terrorists. September 11th has been burned into my very being since I woke up to the frantic phone call from my mother that day. I guess I just wonder if any of these people can truly change or if all of our kindness and overwhelmingly gracious conduct is for nothing.

314 rabidsquirrel  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 7:11:04pm

#309 cavy

If conditions at Gitmo improve any more, I'm booking my reservations. Does anyone know if Delta has a direct flight, or do I have to connect in Atlanta?

315 soul surfer  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 7:42:08pm

@ # 313 eminence front

love your nic because it was one of the best Who songs ever, and nobody seems to remember it

...it's a put on, a put on, a put on...

thanks for the memory

316 Kirly  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 7:55:42pm

#313 eminencefront

" does the kind treatment we show to these people have no effect at all?"

yes, it makes them think we are weak. look at how they treat their prisoners/hostages. that, they believe, is showing strength.

i believe it is very difficult for people bought up in that warped ideology to change. someone (here?) said they aren't brought up with the golden rule. there is no concept in their lives regarding treating someone well because that is how you would want to be treated. it's all about strength (or their sick idea of it) and power over the (perceived) weak.

317 rightasrain  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 8:11:06pm

#316 Kirly

It's also all about big talk in the Arab world.

I'm reading "The Arab Mind" by Raphael Patai.

Did you know that prior to Israel's War of Independence, some of the Arab meetings to plan it included claims that they had an atomic bomb. The President of Syria said they had a "very clever fellow, a tinsmith" who'd made it locally. (See p. 54)

Just saying it was enough to make them feel better.

They thought they'd make short work of "a few Jews."

Although they did actually have huge armies, they fought an imaginary war (which is a big reason why the Arabs don't win wars against Israel.)

Kindness means ZILCH to these guys. They spout aggressive garbage to their enemies and anything less than this is absolutely seen as weakness.

318 Kirly  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 8:32:36pm

#317 rightasrain

"Did you know that prior to Israel's War of Independence, some of the Arab meetings to plan it included claims that they had an atomic bomb. The President of Syria said they had a "very clever fellow, a tinsmith" who'd made it locally. (See p. 54)"

no, i had not heard this. why do we take these people seriously? they are so lucky that i'm not the POTUS. i'd OWN the ME right now.

319 rightasrain  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 8:39:11pm

#318 Kirly

Our enemies are delusional and liars - while also being capable of utter barbarism when they do decide to take action.

They are absolutely NOT capable of making the kinds of deals that westerners are used to making.

Last week, Abbas whined about the meeting with Israel (saying that it wasn't fair to tie major concessions to the Paleos' actually doing things to end terror.)

It's been the crux of dealing with the Paleos for over 12 years now (an exchange between the Paleos ending terror and getting something in return for this.) This is what the Paleos agreed to do in the early 1990s.

The Paleos act as if it's outrageously unfair and they've never heard a word about having to do such a thing as end terror.

It's wild, flagrant lying and denying it every step of the way.

There's absolutely no way to make an agreement with these people.

320 lykeios  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 10:44:16pm

plmwyon'eh Rly'eh Cucullu fh'tagn. (spelling?)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

321 T.H. Suburbia  Mon, Jun 27, 2005 11:53:50pm

"We serve Pita-Bread! See? We can do no harm!"

Your heads around it wrap, Little Green Yodas:

The marines can serve up filets de mignon, champagne and personal masseuses: As long as the detainees are not formally charged and are held indefinitely, this adminstration will continue to ruin its international reputation.

You can smear the ICRC all you like - it is not the first time that this organization has gotten into a clinch with government-officials who disregard the Geneva Conventions. The ICRC will get over it, but the White House will not, if this administration doesn't get its act together and starts redefining - together with the ICRC - the basic conditions for taking prisoners during the so called "war on terror."

322 Powderfinger  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 1:11:54am
As long as the detainees are not formally charged and are held indefinitely, this adminstration will continue to ruin its international reputation.

Continue to ruin? Ya mean it's gonna get worser and worser, Beav? Golly gee. How bad can it possibly get?

News flash: The dirtbags at Gitmo are not subject to the Geneva Conventions protections. And if they were, the GC doesn't suggest "formally charging" them. They can be held until the end of hostilities which, given the nature of their friends, just might be forever. What you seem to want and what the GC offers are 2 different things.

According to the GC we could have just summarily executed these dirtbags.

The ICRC will get over it, but the White House will not

Really? How do you figure? What does the White House need from the ICRC? Why should we care what the folks in Geneva think? Paris?

the basic conditions for taking prisoners during the so called "war on terror.
if this administration doesn't get its act together and starts redefining - together with the ICRC - the basic conditions for taking prisoners during the so called "war on terror."

It's been defined: Gitmo. Deal with it.

323 The Drizzle  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 2:09:40am

"....i specifically asked for no tomatos! Someone call Amnesty International and report this torture!"

324 Carl B  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 4:00:39am

#313 eminencefront

However, does the kind treatment we show to these people have no effect at all? Does not one ray of sunlight pierce the iron wall of Islamic mind control?

Nope. Look at the thanks that young Pali woman tried to show the Israeli doctors and nurses at the Soroka Hospital who had treated her for burns. Blow up the very people providing humanitarian medical care that is impossible to get from Palestinians in Gaza. And she dreamed of "martyrdom" since she was a little girl. Sick culture of death.

325 Semper Gumbi  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 4:28:01am

#321 Suburbia

I think you need to do a little more research. I don't recall that the ICRC has much of a dog in this fight. The big dogs are AI and the UN Commission on "Human Rights", two organizations with very little credibility.

Everything I have read indicated the ICRC has been involved at GITMO from the beginning. They squawked about conditions three years ago when things were just starting but don't seem to say much, good or bad, these days.

326 el Greco  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 4:40:11am

Why are we wasting our money in Gitmo? Why don't we just send all of those prisoners back to Pakistani and Afgan prisons? I think that those place would get the job done properly.

327 Horsesoldier  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 5:22:42am

I propose that we close Gitmo, and send two of these fine young men of Middle Eastern extraction home with every Democrat Congress person, and of course, H.T. Suburbia.

I will petition my congressman to sponsor a bill I call L.A.R.K for Liberals Accept Responsibility for Killers.

Remember, Amnesty International and the U.N. inspectors will call on you…

328 Horsesoldier  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 5:34:11am

Oh by the by, suburbia, the Geneva conventions only apply to mutual signatories, like any other treaty. Unless you have Mullah Omar’s signature on file, they do not apply to Taliban members.

If it did, the fine young terrorists are further disqualified as they:
are not soldiers in the employ of any government
have no uniforms or recognizable officer structure

in fact, under the terms of the convention, as combatants seized while conducting operations in civilian clothes, they may summarily executed.

Come to that, THAT would solve the ol’ Gitmo conundrum….

329 Right Wing Nutt  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 5:34:18am

we should start a "fund drive" to "shut down Gitmo" by simply purchasing 520 bullets for each "detainee"....this would save the american taxpayer a fortune.

330 Horsesoldier  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 5:37:24am

"purchasing 520 bullets for each "detainee"....

520 EACH, geez, these are TOUGH guys....

331 Kirly  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 5:40:45am

#319 rightasrain

"It's wild, flagrant lying and denying it every step of the way."


that would be what we call "islam".

332 Bruiser  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 5:53:00am

I would wager that these animals believe that they are being cared for so well due to the great benevolence of Allah, not because us Americans are great captors. This is why they continue to pray 5 times daily, and why we should not have given them Qu'rans. These a**holes of humanity think that Allah has saved them and elevated them above those dirty Americans, and since we fear them, we treat them like kings.

Beat them hourly with leather straps, then bathe them in salt water.

333 eminencefront  Tue, Jun 28, 2005 8:56:04am

#332

would wager that these animals believe that they are being cared for so well due to the great benevolence of Allah, not because us Americans are great captors.

So very true it seems, unfortunately.


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