I'm praying it will miss N.O.

Oh, yeah. Bush. Obviously.

It ain't going to miss N.O. Sorry.

#1 Semper Fi

Me too, but I think it's pretty much a done deal, now, unless it does a 180 or so.

Where Are the Louisiana National Guard?
by Patricia Taylor
Sun Aug 28th, 2005 at 07:55:41 PDT

Ah moonbat I just saw a bunch of them at the Superdome.

Wonder what the structural limits are on the Super Dome? Some estimates have the wind gusts at the strongest part to be around 200 mph.....that is damn strong.

The Louisiana National Guard are in force. Turn on any tv and you will see pictures of the Superdome with National Guard on duty.

#6

Its not the wind, its the H2O.

Repeat: Former SSG needs to get out of Destin.

Scientists predicted Katrina could easily overtake that levee system, swamping the city under a 30-feet cesspool of toxic chemicals, human waste and even coffins that could leave more than 1 million people homeless.

Forcripesakes. That quote is all over the media. Toxic chemicals are not going to be a significant problem. Or coffins. Sewage, possibly. Water, definately. Wassup with these media types?

I wonder if sheehan woulda felt any better if her son had died saving someone during a storm?

Sandspur,

I've been able to e-mail so no phone call necessary at this point.

Guess I'd better scare up a big, thick novel because there will likely be a LOT of reading for entertainment the next few days.

-------------

#5 I think that I read that about 3000 of our LNG are in Iraq. We've lost quite a few to the bad guys lately. Our local paper does a good job of covering the families and the funerals. Very tasteful and in no way political.

#6 mad_scientist

I heard on Fox that the Superdome can withstand wind speeds of 135 mph. But that was only in field tests. One positive though is that none of the skyscrapers were around it at the time so the winds will be diminished some.

#6 mad_scientist

I believe FNC said earlier that the SuperDome was built to withstand 135 mph winds. But I agree with goldmember, the water will do the most damage....

#10 Earth2moonbat

Wassup with these media types?

Ratings.

The greater the predictions of doom, the more viewers will turn in to their coverage.

Or maybe they're just giving in to mob mentality.

#10 Earth2moonbat,

I think that chemicals WILL be a problem. Household chemicals, gasoline, pesticides, and who knows what else.... Maybe not industrial chemicals, but chemicals just the same.

Regardless, the water is going to be nasty. Lots of small wildlife that will die and decompose....

#8

I know the flooding is the major problem, but if the "last resort" (Super Dome) cant hold up to the wind it could be a lot worse......especially for the 20,000 that are counting on it holding up.

kos: "And where are these National Guard right now?"

I can understand why you would wonder about this. The Guard and Reserve are volunteer, just like the rest of the Armed Forces. Consequently, not too many of them are going to be hanging out with the surrender-monkey crowd at kos, doncha know?
ESABATM.

I heard that the SuperDome was "field"tested to withstand 135 mph. That doesn't sound like it is anywhere near strong enough. Also, at least the first level of the SD will be flooded with the predicted 30' storm surge.

From Kos

wonder if the Bush supporters would be willing to head for New Orleans to pack some sandbags?
All they're doing in Crawford is waving picket signs, harassing peaceful protesters.

1. Bush supporters are in N.O. helping already.

2.How are the 'peaceful protesters' helping with storm preparations?

3.I've seen pictures all day of men in uniform helping direct evacuation routes and setup refugee shelters.

4.What is the reality based moonbat community doing to help?

5.How is a lawful counter-protest considered 'harassment'?

Regarding the Kos kids and their Natl Guard thing: If a direct hit or even close Iraq would be safer.

My thoughts and prayers are with those of New Orleans. I wish them good health and a better tommorow.

May God Bless all of you in Katrina's path.

Only Moonbats could come to a conclusion that a natural phenom like a hurricane could be the result of a Republican Administration.

Naturally they'd prefer a continuous video loop of the former cigar-smoking pre-impeachment-pre-disgraced-perjuror Democrat playin' the bongos in Africa.

I don't think the moonbats watch TV. I saw at least 25 national guard personnel and tons of military vehicles at the Superdome.

Does everything that happens have to be blamed on Bush?
What a bunch of wackos.

I have two things. First, what do these dumbsh*ts think the National Guard could have done that it's not already doing? There's nothing you can do to stop an act of G-d except to get the f*ck out of its way.

Second, what a bunch of f*cking hypocrites. I don't remember the Left making too much of a fuss when Slick Willy was hacking and slacking the military's budget to death. They seemed overjoyed that that money, instead, went into social programs including welfare.

The Gov of La was on a little while ago and said they have 4,000 La National Guard troops on standby.

Nothing says "politics" like a giant hurricane.

/insane in the membrane

I thought the kos folks wanted to keep the troops out of harm's way? so confused by those guys

sorry AI, but kos sounds a little like you did earlier (ducks)

Charles, thanks for this thread. It is a major story.

Others, try not to pay too much attention to the nutjobs on the left. They remind me of cockroaches when the lights are turned on. From my urban childhood that is. Knee jerk insects and looney leftists have a lot in common.

The real world and Katrina should be of more concern for the next few days. Let us stay focused. I look here
for human interest insight.

MA

Not only is Bush the worst President ever, but he is also a total asshole for fucking over New Orleans.

Oh yeah, and that would explain why God and Dubya have never been photographed together...

Dang, what a bunch of goofballs. I guess it's only a matter of time now before they uncover the Zioneocon/Bushalliburton kitten-killing cabal.

Did he just say Swamp Monsters ?

N.O. Mayor on Fox news

I'm in Crowley, La. with relatives. Now to see if I still have an apartment and a workplace after tomorrow.

Now, will the left kindly hold off on politicizing things until after I find out just how many of my friends have died? Goddamn goat-feltching fucktarded asshats!

Venice LA,

Bouy reports:

Wind 71.4 mph

#18 cracker_jones

kos: "And where are these National Guard right now?" I can understand why you would wonder about this. The Guard and Reserve are volunteer, just like the rest of the Armed Forces. Consequently, not too many of them are going to be hanging out with the surrender-monkey crowd at kos, doncha know?

In other words, they too damn busy to be posting on f*cking Daily Kos!

The LNG has been on the MSM coverage all damn day and the Kossacks haven't seen them? Oh yeah, that's right: they don't watch the MSM, 'cause they are "corporatist shills for the neocon Bush Regime!"

Sarah D, I think Destin's fairly OK with this one. I'm watching from central AL with Ivan thoughts.

earth2moonbat #10

They're talking about the city being under 30 feet of water. Coffins have been known to wash out of cemeteries in severe floods.

Sewage systems will be totally overwhelmed by that kind of flooding.

And why couldn't there be toxic waste washed out of the soil with that much water?

I'm from Louisiana and I have a few friends in the guard. I want to assure everyone that we are not short on guardsmen in Louisiana. My friend is in N.O. now helping out the superdome just as he was a few weeks ago when Dennis hit Florida.
Word around here is that George Bush had to call the N.O. mayor last night and tell him to start telling people to evacuate. The mayor was eating at restaurant last night at 11 pm when he got the call.

heard Rove was seen skulking around with a mysterious dog wearing a cape and holding mr peabody's weather machine.
think they were shooting for crawford?

best of luck to all in harms path, stay safe!

Anyone heard from Teacake!?

Who does these moonbats think is securing the perimeter of the superdome?
LNG, of course!

We did a study on the SuperDome back in 1975. How it was built. The financial shennanigans.
The substandard materials. Might withstand it...but I wouldn't bet my life on it

#35 amyc

I'm not sure how close she is to the coast, but a 10 ft. surge will screw the infrastructure for a while. Better to get out.

The East side of the storm is the worst.

38

heard Rove was seen skulking around with a mysterious dog wearing a cape and holding mr peabody's weather machine.

SO that's how they do it. I wonder if Peabody's sidekick Sherman was around too ;)

I just had a thought, people - in looking at the storm track, after Katrina passed over the southern tip of Florida it looked like it was headed for Texas.

Then, it took a sharp right turn towards Nawlins.

I got to thinking about pressures, highs and lows, and what "pushes" weather around. I came to the conclusion that all of that hot air out of Crawford (and more specifically Camp Cindy) was causing a ridge of high pressure that was pushing Katrina off to the north!

Therefore, Mother Cindy is directly responsible for Nawlins getting creamed by Katrina!

Right?

JAFLW

/you know the drill

16 YouGottaBeKidding

Household chemicals, gasoline, pesticides, and who knows what else..

Ironically, some of these might kill some of the pathogens from the sewage. No, I'd rather not bathe in them, but active (live) sewage doesn't appeal to me, either.

In reality, the only thing on that list that really concerns me is gasoline, because people have it in large quantities, and it floats to the top. The rest should stay in their bottles, at least for a few days. If they have caps.

They're always talking about how stupid President Bush is, and now they're saying he controls the weather. I can't even think of what to say about their stupidity, so I'll spend the next few moments in prayer for those in harm's way instead. That will be much more productive, anyway.

#36 Amy According to FNC, there are a number of chemical plants in the NO metro area. Should the tanks leak/be destroyed/whatever, there could be a real toxic soup in the flood waters

#20 TotallySirius

You're just going to give yourself a headache. You're expecting logical, rational thinking from spoiled children who are entirely incapable of it.

If in the Dome, seek the nosebleed seats.
Praying the strength of the dome proves the design intention.

#25 nice of the wonderful LA governor to be willing to sacrifice guardsmen when she didn't get enough personnel into the evacuation. and my last post from the previous hurricane thread--from a story on the wwmal.com

Mayor C. Ray Nagin called for a voluntary evacuation of the city at 5 p.m. Saturday. He said he would most likely be more forceful about making people leave Sunday. For the tourists stuck in town, he had some different advice.

"The only thing I can say to them is I hope they have a hotel room, and it's a hotel room that's at least on the third floor and up," Nagin said. "Unfortunately, unless they can rent a car to get out of town, which I doubt they can at this point, they're probably in the position of riding the storm out."
so thoughtful of him

I've heard a number of people interviewed while standing in line to get into the Superdome. To a man/woman, they were calm, resigned, and polite. The consensus was that this is an act of God and that they must do the best they can.

Contrasted with the LLL comments, which are mostly shrill and off-topic, the folks in line all sound like Einsteins. I think I'll stick with the regular people.

I like the Weather Warden series as much as the next reader, but in real life, we can't control the damn weather.

In the 1990s, Suhayda began modeling category 4 and 5 storms hitting New Orleans from a variety of directions. His results were frightening enough that he shared them with emergency preparedness officials throughout Louisiana. If such a severe storm were to hit the city from the southwest, for instance, Suhayda’s data indicate that the water level of Lake Pontchartrain would rise by as much as 12 ft (3.7 m). As the storm’s counterclockwise winds battered the levees on the northern shore of the city, the water would easily top the embankments and fill the streets to a depth of 25 ft (7.6 m) or more.

Suhayda’s model is not the only one that describes such a catastrophe. A model called SLOSH (Sea, Lake, and Overland Surges from Hurricanes), which is used by the National Weather Service and local agencies concerned with emergency preparedness, portrays an equally grim outcome should a storm of category 5 hit New Orleans. The SLOSH model does not contain nearly as many computational nodes as does AdCirc, it does not use a finite-element grid to increase the resolution of the nodes on shore, and its boundary is much smaller. Even so, its results are disheartening.

“Suppose it’s wrong,” says Combe, the Corps modeler. “Suppose twenty-five feet is only fifteen feet. Fifteen feet still floods the whole city up to the height of the levees.”

Experts say a flood of this magnitude would probably shut down the city’s power plants and water and sewage treatment plants and might even take out its drainage system. The workhorse pumps would be clogged with debris, and the levees would suddenly be working to keep water in the city. Survivors of the storm—humans and animals alike—would be sharing space on the crests of levees until the Corps could dynamite holes in the structures to drain the area. In such a scenario, the American Red Cross estimates that between 25,000 and 100,000 people would die.

[Link: www.pubs.asce.org...]

#41 bonz

We did a study on the SuperDome back in 1975. How it was built. The financial shennanigans. The substandard materials. Might withstand it...but I wouldn't bet my life on it

Frighteningly, more than 70,000 are.

Let's just hope that the left wing loonies wlll at least take a time out from making hay when the hurricane blows and stop politicizing this tragedy and help their fellow Americans.

From Swingstate

the crisis resulting from Lousiana's National Guard being in Iraq instead of defending their state.

Do these lunatics actually beleive the LaNG(or any human endeavour)could possibly defeat a hurricane?

Hurricanes are mother nature's most powerful display,all humans can do is brace for impact and pick up the pieces afterwards.

People who think like that are a danger to themselves and others.

Interesting.... So... Bush IS at fault for the weather? but I thought he was too stupid to tie his shoes or speak right......

these Lefties are confusing... too stupid to drool, but genius enough to change the weather.

Cybrludite #32

I hope things are all right with you, your friends and loved ones tomorrow. Please know that all of us who are not in harm's way (this time - I'm a New Yorker) are praying that all of you down there will survive this and bounce back. Our thoughts are with you.

#44 Just Another Four-Letter Word

Send that to print please.

Stercorem pro cerebris habent personae Kosis.

You'll note that maggots, vultures and "progressives" are the most enthusiastic about the prospect of a lot of dead innocents.

You know... the issue isn't the wind....

its the snakes and the floods.

the people will go to high areas, as will the snakes.

and becomming a new Lake won't help.

#44 JAFLW: FYI, they had a wild lightening storm last night and this morning in Crawford, along with rain, so I'm sure the bar ditches were full. Poetic justice.

Generac 3500W generator, automotive spin-on oil filter, fully pressurized bearings, steel-sleeve, overhead valve engine, low hours. 220 and 110 service with DC battery charging capability.

For Sale: $6500 or more if someone bids higher.

I'll be that gouhlish-looking guy on the edge of town after the $#96 hits the fan.

Ice also availabe, $65 for a seven-pound sack...

Bordm, thanks for the phone call and for the kind offer of shelter. we were cut off. the local towers are getting blinky.

God bless you

Even if the roof of the Superdome is taken off, the people will be okay because there is massive amount of room in the metting rooms etc built under the seats. It is really a ring shaped office building with a stadium in the middle.

(repeated from the other thread)

#42 Sarah D.

I just spoke w/her earlier this evening - ~6:30PM Eastern time - and she seemed fine, nothing too severe by her. Just some rain. She's been through a hurricane before and knows not to take stupid chances. Should I call again?

#60 Murder

You'll note that maggots, vultures and "progressives" are the most enthusiastic about the prospect of a lot of dead innocents.

Funny that. They ALWAYS are, aren't they? If they can blame it on the GOP, the more victims, the better for them. Their fellow man is just a tool in their ongoing war against the Rovian Forces of Oppression.

36 Amy

I understood the toxic chemicals concern to be a concern for the considerable amount of chemical manufacturing in the general vicinity. There are a lot of chemical plants in the N.O.-Baton Rouge corridor. They tend to build these plants on high ground, and build the structures on pilings that go to bedrock.

They won't be flooded. That would be a doomsday scenario if it did occur. There are probably some small operations where they cut corners, but the big guys, the Dows, and Monsantos, etc. tend to keep tight ships.

What's in the actual city, in the ground, is insignificant.

#64 Bayou

are you IN the hurricane path?

So, how long before the Moonbats claim that Katrina was orchestrated by the Bush/Rove Cabal to raise oil prices higher, putting more money in the hands of their oil buddies?

53 Spiny

Fox reported earlier that there are only 12,000 people in the SDome.

Cowgirl #47

What's FNC?

Well, I say "only." That's compared to 70,000 . . .

What a terrible burden it must be to lead such miserable and paranoiac lives. To stake your happiness and sense of well-being on the shoulders of one human being must be psychologically devastating. I suppose that it fills a spiritual void for those who have chosen to look the other way, and totally rely upon human intervention to deal with human folly, let alone nature's course. Take pity on those unfortunate souls, as opposed to contempt. They know not of that which they speak of. They haven’t the spiritual or moral capacity to do so.

I'm a hurricane vet: Opal, Fort Walton Beach FL, 1995. Top wind gust 144 MPH in Navarre. I also weathered Erin that same year.

I'm thinking this one is a monstrous bitch compared to any I've seen.

Still, Opal showed me what wind can do: lawnmowers blowing down the street ass over teakettle. Amazing.

Radar shows almost due North motion, maybe 350^o.

Not to forget, even a hit into Plaquemines Parish still means sustained hurricane winds and possible 3 meter plus (10 foot) storm surge in Alabama.

BTW, GWB wasn't President during the two hurricanes that destroyed Indianola, TX 120 years ago, or the 1900 Galveston Hurricane that killed 8000 people, or the 1935 Labor Day cat 5, the 1938 New England Hurricane, Carla, Betsy, Camille, Hugo, Andrew (well, his Dad was for those 2).

KoS Kiddies should read Dr. Gray's studies of the Atlantic Thermohaline cycle, which explains why hurricanes seem to occur in greater frequency in 2 to 3 decade long cycles.

Long range radar loop.

I think it was the NBC Nightly news that felt compelled to point out "many Louisiana Guardsmen are in Iraq".

Ed in Houston. What do you make out of the size of the 'eye'? It is huge. That is either very good news or very bad.

For newcomers:

Link

#71 K.

Fox reported earlier that there are only 12,000 people in the SDome.

Ah. All I kept hearing was that it had a "capacity of 72,000".

Fox also reported that it's likely the field level of the Superdome will flood.

#66 Nonnie

The storm surge is here.

If this thing turns at all East, the levels will be high enough in her area to cause quite a problem.

Make sure she's on the second floor and has supplies. There won't be any way to get more unless she has a boat for a while.

#64 Bayou_King

We are here with you.

OK, I've been reading along all afternoon, and I haven't posted this because I felt BK had enough to deal with.

But, for everyone who doesn't know about this, water moccasin snakes are a major threat in flooding. They are heat-seekers, and humans are warm-blooded. In flood waters... well, you figure it out. They will swarm like piranhas.

E2m #68

I hope you're right, but 175 mph winds....?

74 Cartman - Amen, brother.

#64 Bayou King

Do you have your own way to make electricity?

#72 Amy

FNC = Fox News Channel

The eye is heading right dead for N.O., isn't it?

Conspicuous is the total lack of compassion shown by the commenters at redstate or kos.

So jaded has become their worldview that politics is always first and foremost in their minds.

They have become completely blind to the suffering of their fellow man unless it suits their 'cause du jour' and even then they only refer to the tragedy in political terms.

I fear their souls are not going to a pleasant place in the hereafter.

Some guy came into the Lowe's nearby on Friday night and bought every generator they had! While convenient, I wasn't even willing to pay retail. I'll sweat for $700.

#71 K, #78 Spiny Norman

I don't want to think about what that means for the rest of the 100,000 who are still reported to be in NO...

Unfortunately, the citizens of the state of Louisiana [sic] are about to face the full force of Katrina without the benefit of their National Guard troops to protect them.

Exactly how could the LA Nat'l Guard could protect them from a hurricane?

Winch them out of trees afterward, perhaps. Shuttle water, ice, and basics to isolated groups, probably. Hang a disconcerting number of toe tags, regretably. If New York and the country dealt with 9/11, then New Orleans and the country can handle this.

But it is not the National Guard's job to protect them from either the weather or the consequences of foolish decisions. Those who are still partying along Canal Street are prima facie evidence of evolution in action.

Side to Charles: Is it possible to put up a counter or something that would credit LGF members for American Red Cross donations? And then challenge KOS, DU, etc. No matter who 'wins', money gets raised and people get helped.

Bordm
Are you out & about?

I can remember years ago the big concern in New Orleans was that a massive storm could change the river's access to the Gulf. Leaving New Orleans on one of a few ways to the Mississippi

#72 Amy: FNC = Fox News Channel

How silly. Blaming a hurricane on Bush. We all know Karl Rove controls the weather.

“New Orleans is right there,” Dokka says, pointing to a graphic illustration of his research on a computer screen. “But I guarantee you that won’t last, because the ocean is right there on both sides, and any kind of storm is going to take out that area.”

[Link: www.pubs.asce.org...]

Ct. Yankee #86

Thanks.

#82 cowgirl

that's what I was saying.

#82 Cowgirl

But, for everyone who doesn't know about this, water moccasin snakes are a major threat in flooding. They are heat-seekers, and humans are warm-blooded. In flood waters... well, you figure it out. They will swarm like piranhas.

Cowgirl, it is true, they come up when the water does, but they are just looking for higher ground.

At Hurlburt Field (an Air Force Base in Ft Walton Beach, FL) we had hundreds if not thousands of snake individuals seek high ground and they ended up here and there. We had one entomologist, an airman, and he was running crazy trapping and bagging them. Still, no one was hurt.

They just do what's natural, and shucks, them humans aren't big enough for them to swallow.

Still, good advice, they'll be up around higher ground and people'll need to be careful not to sit on/step on/lay on one of them.

thank you all for your concern!

{lizards}

i seem to be in the clear here in lafayette - expecting maybe 60 mph winds. it's my brother i'm concerned about.

he is manning the ER in mandeville, and IMHO the hospital may be the last building standing in that area. catastrophic destruction likely for that area. his wife and daughter are with him. i couldn't convince him to send them out west to me last night. the path tracks right over him.

now he is putting his life on the line for the idiots who chose not to evacuate (in his area, very wealthy, NO ONE had a poverty excuse to stay)

83 Amy

These plants are made of steel. Lots of it. I've spent most of my career around them. The concern is water level. If the water doesn't rise, there won't be a problem, and if it does, there still little chance of chemicals leaking into the water. As long as somebody doesn't do something stupid, anyway.

Wind can blow insulation off, and there could be a lot of junk blowing around for that reason, but the tanks will be intact, and the chemicals will be contained.

And as I said, if the management is poor, all bets are off.

#91 TenRing

Those who are still partying along Canal Street are prima facie evidence of evolution in action.

Definitely Darwin Award material.

#82 Cowgirl

Shredding winds, flooding rains, three-story storm surge, flying debris, zapping power lines, tornados, bobbing coffins, toxic soup, and water moccasins? What's not to like?

Water moccasins, for those not familiar, are one of the few truly aggressive poisonous snakes unless you travel to Africa or India. They can be territorial or just plain ornery.

#90 Lyana

I don't want to think about what that means for the rest of the 100,000 who are still reported to be in NO...

There are a lot of people I've heard interviewed on TV and radio that are certain they'll be safe in large buildings on the fourth floor and above.

Not a roll of the dice I'd want to make.

#100 Bayou King

Yeah... I don't understand people staying.... they don't think its going to be dangerous.

they ought to have said when declaring mandatory evacs "We are expecting a high death toll... we expect many of you to die if you do not leave."

What's going to happen is some people won't leave, and some family members will die, and they'll sue.

NOLA cams

For those who are interested, several cams are still on, giving a current photo every 20 seconds.

now watch... some dolt (maybe Fallwell or RObertson) will mention that God cleans out the sinful lands....

and that'll take front page for a month.

#89 deadman

Some guy came into the Lowe's nearby on Friday night and bought every generator they had! While convenient, I wasn't even willing to pay retail. I'll sweat for $700.

My guess is he didn't plan to keep them all for himself -- perhaps he was going to provide for friends/family/whomever needs it, or he could be planning to sell them in a time of need for a healthy profit.

#105 LanceKates

What's going to happen is some people won't leave, and some family members will die, and they'll sue.

And lose. The best plaintiffs would be any inmates or city employees who are killed, in other words, those required to stay.

Hazardous waste is classifies in several categories. There is corrosive, reactive, flammable, toxic, and radioactive. Corrosive wastes if released by tons and tons of water will be neutralized or significantly diluted so as to not be very hazardous. Reactive wastes are usually oxidizers so if they get wet that's a good thing. Toxic wastes such as metals, pesticides, and organic compounds can only become waterbourne if they are water soluble. The dilution factor would be tremendous so that any effect of release would be a long term low level contamination. Radioactive material will be adequately contained. Flammables can rise to the surface and collect to cause potential fire hazards. The worst potential problems are related to bacterialogical contamination of water from backed up sewers and septic systems. Luckily, most Americans are smart enough to not swim in or drink untreated water, however, mosquitos and other insects are not

Cowgirl; mBeagle
Contrary to popular belief....
Snakes DO bite under water.

#109 Beagle

Oh, I didn't say they'd win... but they'd still sue. They'd waste an ungodly amount of the taxpayers' money and time to defend against the stupid..

and the sueing party's claim would be "They didn't make the Hurricane sound like a credible threat"

@62 Cowgirl

That storm last night was very strange and widespread. It was up in Stephenville all the way to Livingston that I know of. Lots of high winds and red coloured lightning.

Daily Kos: Where Are the Louisiana National Guard?

ASk this guy where the LNG is you stupid little bastard...

"They may be here for a while," said Gen. Ralph Lupin, the National Guardsman in charge of the shelter. "The electricity will be out after the storm; streets will be almost impassable. So once they get here, they'll have to stay for the duration."

Guardsmen made able-bodied people clasp their hands behind their backs while they patted them down, feeling the seams and hems of clothing, then ran metal detectors over them. The backpacks, suitcases and plastic grocery bags that held their belongings were searched.

AP News

#100 BK

he is manning the ER in mandeville

Yup, he no doubt was asked to stay, my wife is and was a nurse back in 95 for Opal and they asked her to stay, so her and I both did.

Today we might have made a different choice, because we had a kidlet.

God bless them and I say a prayer for them asking God's mercy, for they are doing his work there, helping, healing, comforting...

They will be blessed and watched over, no doubt.

#111 RebTex

my dad just talked to me tonight about a cottonmouth that he saw while walking through a marsh. it was underwater and coiled at him.

"They didn't make the Hurricane sound like a credible threat"

Bush lied people died.
/sarc off

RebTex, I had a bunch of water mocassins chase me when I was a kid wading through a flooded field. I HATE SNAKES! Anyway, those cottonmouths aren't nothing to take lightly.

Quark2: I'm east of Hillsboro, and that was a very strange storm, wasn't it?

#117 jrd

lol... something like that.

#43 satan sidekick

Take a good, close look at Sherman, then find photos of a *young* Karl Rove...

#82 Cowgirl

But, for everyone who doesn't know about this, water moccasin snakes are a major threat in flooding. They are heat-seekers, and humans are warm-blooded. In flood waters... well, you figure it out.

And those bastards will chase you. A four footer came after me along the Pearl during the spring flood.

Most of the chemical plants and refineries are upriver from NO - ie towards the west. And, no, the sea is not going to come up the Mississippi River. It is relatively narrow (1 mile) and very twisty. I reverses course several times downriver.

When I lived in NO the house I lived in was wood frame. A gradual flood could be avoided by moving upstairs. As the water table in New Orleans is inches, with a violent flood, running to the fourth floor of a private building would be like seeking comfort at the top of a house of cards.

#112 LanceKates

Hurricanes mostly generate lawsuits between insurers and insured, builders and victims, but not much else.

Judges know they have to toss lawsuits which are based on the "I'm so stupid that..." principle.

18Z GFDL predicts Cat 5 landfall near Barataria Bay as a Cat 5

Still a Cat 4 as it nears inland Mississippi

Still a Cat 1 hurricane tomorrow evening in Northeast Mississippi.

Dropping below Hurricane force in Central Tennessee.

Still a strong tropical storm in Southern Indiana.

BTW, LGF acting flaky on me. This is third time I'm trying to post this.

#124 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

Ouch. Send more prayers. I was just thinking on asking for the lastest. Thanks Ed .

#107 Lance

It's already happening. Big deal, and who amongst us really cares? The immediacy of the situation is what's important. Let's deal with the political ramifications when all is said and done. Just sayin'.

#124 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

Those models show the eye running East of town. Does that seem likeliest?

BK and the other LGFer's down in Katrina's way -if you still have time, please find a way out of her path. If not, please find someplace safe for you and your loved ones. My family and I will be praying for your safety and for those that are in harm's way tonight. May God keep you and your families safe from the wrath of this hurricane.

somewhere, someone is blaming Bush for this.

Beside the fact that there's no evidence to suggest that Louisiana has inadequate resources due to the war in Iraq, both SwingState and the Kos Kidz overlook the fact that local/state resources will likely be wholly insufficient, even with 100% manpower. After Hurricane Andrew wrecked South Florida in 1992, former Pres.Bush had to call in the 82nd Airborne because local/state resources couldnt handle the disaster. I posted some additional comments here - The Illiberal Left

Venice LA:

89.8 mph.

Wave height: 30.84 ft.

E2m #101

Again, hope you're right.

Btw, what is your career?

G.Galvan #110

Makes perfect sense.

TenRing #91

They just want to be able to get a T shirt that says: "I survived the storm of the century, and all I got was this lousy T shirt."

Unless they don't, of course.

120 PSG

I think you've cracked the mystry of Rove's powers. He's Sherman all right. Now who's Mr Peabody? Have they disguised him as Bush's dog Barney?

Ed, what do you make of the 'eye'?

Sarah
Is that present conditions?!

Damn, Just got back from the KOS Sewer ... I need a drink!
First all the NG from LA are in Iraq ... no wait only 4000 of 11000 are there ...oops ... no there are 1500 on duty and another 2500 on the way (one for every house in NO) ..... nope the damn global warming is burning up the west and drowning poor folks in NO ... WAIT ... Bush PLANNED this so that oil prices would go up and he is high fiving all his neocon pals .....
Sorry for the language but these people are FUCKING IDIOTS!
There I feel better now ... back to the calm considered political dialogue on LGF ...
Wait I just said "Political" ... Damn Karl Rove is behind this ... Cindy Sheehan Cindy Sheehan ... Mother Sheehan ... ARrrgggggg ... C a n ' t g e t t h e A s s h a t s o u t o f m y h e a d .....
WARNING READING KOS KIDS IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR MENTAL HEALTH!
Gulp, Gulp, Gulp, AHHHHHhhhhhhhh good ole Jack ... that did the trick ..

I gotta stop doing this to myself!

110 G.Galvan

Absolutely correct. Plus, most of these things will never get out of their containers.

#91 TenRing:

Is it possible to put up a counter or something that would credit LGF members for American Red Cross donations? And then challenge KOS, DU, etc. No matter who 'wins', money gets raised and people get helped.

Excellent idea. Can you make a donation "in honor of LGF" or some such?

Too close to call. I hadn't thought of this, but Fox expert said worst case was just East of NOLA, so eyewall winds blowing from North put Ponchartrain over the levees.

#124 Ed

The server may not be handling multiple linked sub-threads well. Especially when complex Java applets are involved. We've seen this before on extended discussion topics. Just one geek's opinion. ;-)

I'm being forced to watsh msnbc....I'm in a County Building.
What's wrong with these people?!
What's with the anchor's little bow tie?!

#135 RebTex

Yes. Latest report from bouy #BURL1.

The Buoys never lie...

32.2 feet wave height. Phenomenal! The winds have barely kicked up where this buoy sits, 48 knot gusts...

wow... some nice storms here in OKC are popping out of thin air... a nice wind front, then now lots of lightning and thunder.

Speaking of water moccasins reminds me of a dog we once had. My sister screamed when she saw a nest of them walking to our boathouse in the water and that crazy dog jumped in the water after them. He was bit twice and bit thru 6 snakes, killed them all. My dad raced him to the vet in town just in time to save him. Boy, I sure miss that dog!

I wonder where the USAFR 53rd WRC Hurricane Hunters WC-130J Hercules are flying from. Normal base is Keesler in Biloxi, but I suspect the Air Force has moved all of their flying stock inland, plus, while the planes fly well at 1500 meters inside most hurricanes (3000 meters for added safety in strong hurricanes), I doubt you'd want to land one during a hurricane.

@118 Cowgirl

We're just west of Lake Livingston.
The lightning was real eye candy. I haven't seen a storm like that in about 15 years. Did you get the high winds too? Very little rain though.

Just heard an interview with the Mayor of NO.. He suggests having an axe or hatchet handy to cut your way thru your roof as the water rises.
Also the National Guard is screening people as they enter the SuperDome for guns and knives

139 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

That appears very possible. Ugh.

I grew up in Louisiana, and remember Hurricane Audrey VERY well. That's the hurricane that killed over 3000 in Cameron Parish, alone - people that felt they could "ride it out". Since then, I've been through a couple of lesser storms. None of them are fun.

My uncle was Sergeant Major for the Louisiana National Guard for several years, before they forced him to take a Warrant Officer promotion. When Audrey hit, he was a SSgt. I remember the response he and the people at Camp Bureaugard, in Pineville (where I grew up) gave to as many people as possible during the two weeks we were without power. I remember him coming home at night so tired he couldn't put one foot in front of the other, yet he'd be out the door before daylight the next morning.

I plan to be in Louisiana next weekend for a family reunion. I don't expect there to be any major problems getting to Alexandria. South of there is another thing altogether. I also expect to see Texas, Arkansas, and perhaps other states sending National Guard troops to help out, as they did in 1957, and as Louisiana has done for disaster victims in other states.

I'm following the storm and its activities on two sites: The Weather Channel, and The Irish Trojan blog. Weather Underground also has some good stuff. If anybody has a list of other good sites, let me know.

#146 Ed Mahmoud

I bet they hurevac to Eglin or Hurlburt for this one, maybe Tyndall...

Ed
I've heard that they're flying out of Texas, temporarily.

148 bonz
don't forget no booze either. I think I would need a drink when it was all over.

#139 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

Too close to call. I hadn't thought of this, but Fox expert said worst case was just East of NOLA, so eyewall winds blowing from North put Ponchartrain over the levees.

I'd heard "expert opinion" on both CNN and FNC this morning saying the the worst case scenario was the eyewall passing WEST of NOLA, and the winds push seawater over the marshland to the east of the city...

Does it really make much difference? They're screwed no matter what at this point.

#147 Quark2: We got wind and a very good and needed rain. The lightning, though, was the really spectacular thing. It zinged for about 2 hrs before I gave up and went to bed.

#153 got milk?

I would need a drink LONG before it was over.

#146 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

Are they scheduled to go in again? Do they monitor until it reduces to a tropical storm?

156 Sarah D.

I'm sorry. I gotta ask. Do you get nekkid in storms?

#136 Cavy

I know...it all seems a little to surreal to handle. Please rest assured that the asshats will receive golden bungholes served on a silver platter. Someday. Misguidance and malfeasance can only lead one in a solitary direction - downhill. Anyway, I pledged to stay away from the political ramifications of this impending tragedy, and I am not holding to my vow. Apologies all around, fellow Lizardoids.

a fellow on Dr. Jeff Masters' hurricane blog just posted an original poem, which he just wrote. i think he done good:
-----------------------------------
Here is my poem for those staying:

Katrina: Morituri te salutant
28 August 2005

A miracle of the modern age:
I stare at my computer screen
draped with plastic beads.
I watch this dangerous disc from space.
It is spinning like a cotton top--
spindle perfect, clear,
ready to prick.
Will my beautiful southern belle ever wake?
Will there be a Vieux Carré, a Bourbon Street?
The Big Easy will go down in style if she goes:
Thousands are poised to party till the end.
Some have faith that God will save
their Queen; others believe He won't,
but we are in love with her.
--marc a. drexler

#158 Earth2moonbat

Well....what else is there to do?

#133 satan sidekick

Well, the dog is almost always around isn't he?

Or check this out: suppose you did MAJOR facial surgery on Mr. Peabody. Pushed his snout in flush with his face. It might take years to heal. And you'd certainly want to be out of the public eye.

But, compare such a hypothetical Mr. Peabody with this smart fellow...

Charles, is there any way you can avoid using Tinyurl? It works for me at home (like tonight), but when I'm at work, our content-blocking software at the firewall blocks Tinyurl and others like it.

#161 Sarah D.

Uhhh.....with the power out, I guess you have a point.

/No TV, No LGF, No A/C.....

#164 Earth2moonbat

Exactly!

Well folks, I'd say this is pretty much the end of the MSM's wall-to-wall coverage of Mother Moonbat and her Flying Circus. Besides the fact that the ghouls will be bolting to LA as fast as their vans can carry them, they'll also have a hard time convincing America that a few hundred anti-freedom protestors are more important than tens of thousands killed by a hurricane.

Absolutely no disrespect intended, but how do y'all get away with blogging at work? I'd have my walking papers handed to me in a heartbeat! I guess when you're involved in IT, you're more under the corporate microscope. Just curious, that's all!

No cigarettes are being allowed in the Super Dome!
YIKES!

Out of the top 60 storms to hit the US since 1854, only 19 occurred AFTER 1960. Yet according to the kos kids, there have been more in frequency and intensity ever since Global Warming became the great cause. And out of the top 10 storms, only two occurred in the last 30 years, and the top storm occured 70 years ago, and half occurred before 1930 (two are from the 19th century). Seems like global warming was a bigger problem back then.

Cartman

You can't do it during lunch either? My work does block some blogs, so far LFG still works.

Morituri te salutant

I'm no Latin scholar, but doesn't that mean "To those about to die, we salute you?"

#168 RebTex

Sounds like prison. Or a local restaurant.

#167 Cartman

I'm a Zoning Analyst... I have to do SOMETHING while I"m on hold. lol

I mostly blog when I'm waiting for some ungodly huge pdf file to load on my work computer (would you believe that I have a pII 400 that i have to work with?)... or if I"m on hold, or if I have 120 pages printing (Happens at least once a day... most are just 50 or 60 pages)

or if I just need a mental break, or if I'm eating lunch.

What? No Imams pontificating that this is Allah punishing the Great Satan?

Check out the size of the "eye" satellite

#174 DANE

I searched for that earlier.. lol..

actually, I think they're going to wait to see the damage before proclaiming that.... that way if there isn't much, they don't waste such a proclimation.

I'd love to visit New Orleans but I'm sure glad I don't live there. Not because the the hurricanes or likelihood thereof. No! No! That doesn't bother me. But the SNAKES? Fuggedabowdit! I'm not crazy about bugs or snakes. So, sorry New Orleans, historic and beautiful as you are, I couldn't live with that combo. And then there's the humidity but Toronto's not much better. No...it's the snakes, for sure! ,>

Rebtex: That would be the total pits, wouldn't it? Stuck in a building that may not withstand the winds, flooded to at least the first floor, crammed with people, ....AND NO CIGARETTES?!?!?

#110 G.Galven

Not sure what types of chemical plants are near there, do you know if any of them manufacture water reactive or pyrophoric chemicals? If so, that could pose a problem. I do agree that the big guys take huge pains to keep their storage of these types of chemicals as safe as possible, but sometimes what is safe for every day isn't so safe for something catastrophic like this. We manufacture Organometallic Catalyst, which is quite pyrophoric. As such, most of the process occurs in a plant without walls so that should an incident (read explosion) occur, there won't be as much flying debris through the rest of the site. Additionally, we have anhydrous ammonia that creates a nice little cloud when it escapes, so hopefully that isn't around in great quantities either.

I do not pretend to be a ChemE, I am simply the Labor Relations Manager for a big chemical conglomerate, so I am sure there are experts out there that would be better able to comment on this than me, and would have thoughts on how to handle a spill if one occurs.

#174 DANEgerus

What? No Imams pontificating that this is Allah punishing the Great Satan?

Gotta give'em time. They're still in the middle of writing their "The Zionists aren't giving us enough land" rants. They'll get to the "Allah has brought his divine wrath upon the Great Satan" rants in due time.

#170 got milk

Nope. As far as corporate is concerned, play time is reserved for off-hours. I guess that includes lunchtime. I don't like it, but I understand that web surfing at work has network security implications. I guess that's the line of thought.

/how are the kids? well, I hope

#177 Foreign Devil: There are snakes everywhere in the US, and lots of different kinds that can kill you. Personally, I generally wear boots...but then I live on a farm. In the cities, there are usually just the garden snakes, but occasionally.......

#148 bonz

He suggests having an axe or hatchet handy to cut your way thru your roof as the water rises.

I have a friend who was in the National Guard in NO during Hurricane Betsy. There was heavy flooding particularly in NO east. People went upstairs in their homes as the water rose. It rose higher and they went into the attic. It rose higher and they had no way to get out on the roof. Many drowned this way: hence people are advised to have an ax or hatchet with them if they are staying in their home.

My friend had to work in the temporary morgue they set up after the hurricane. They had no air conditioning for more than a week. There were lots of bodies, many of which were not found for days because they were in attics, etc. He said it was horrible.

Pray for the city of New Orleans.

30 mile wide measured eye.

#176 LanceKates

What the heck are you up so late for? Aren't you in bed by now? :)

#168 Rebtex

No cigarettes are being allowed in the Super Dome!

I suppose it's not going to be like it is up here in the winter: You suck it up, step outside, and smoke a quick one at 20 below, before scurrying back indoors.

Quite a dilemma.

'Course, getting a match lit in 130 mph winds might prove to be unworkable.

Might be just the jump-start some fence sitters need to finally kick. That first 24-36 hours of cold turkey are pure hell.

181 cartman

lil IF is in school. (so you don't need to worry about the tone of the open threads m-f) I'm happy because this may be the 1st year she likes science class. She is good at it but never liked it.

My youngest may be able to start pre-school via the public school system. I hope they let him but they only take the ones most in need 1st. Since he knows colors, shapes, most the alphabet that lowers his chances.

#181 Cartman

yet they'll question any move made to make a network secure that involves money ("well... we haven't had a problem with that before..." line of thought.)

#185 rightymouse

big storm... I don't sleep during those... too exciting.

Snakes?!
UUUUuummmmmmm.....Almost taste like chicken!

What the hell can anyone do to prevent a act of God! The hurricane could have hit anywhere, just this time it was N.O. The only thing we can do is to get out.

#191 mat

clearly you're not a proper progressive.... any liberal progressive knows that president bushy is the reason for Hurricanes.

#186 Friend of Bill W
Obviously, you've not seen MY lighter!

#177 foreign devil

Try walking down the street and noticing a shadow running above you in the light of the streetlight...the rats use the power lines to cross the streets. Also cockroaches the size of Sherman tanks. But a wonderful town..you adapt

This sucker is approaching Lake Charles, LA.

I've got the radar loop on another window.

It's wide, deep and nasty - moving counter-clockwise with the bulk still south of the LA coast.

#187 got milk

Good luck. As I've stated before, you've got great kids, and I'm sure they'll be fine.

Night everybody. I'll probably be back to check on things around 4:00 a.m.

Righty Mouse
The stuff near Lake Charles is a dry band.

#189 LanceKates

Ok.

Did you check the earlier hurricane thread?

We have LGF'ers riding it out in LA.

My heart is in my throat.

Katrina is on a collision course with a front coming at it from Texas.

#199 righty

I'll go outside and watch a tornado....

I'll sit on the deck and watch lightning....

but i'm not crazy enough to stay for a hurricane.

#32 Cybrludite

I was born and raised in Crowley and will return there when we retire. My sister and jillions of cousin are there; I'm in
Austin praying for ya'll and for everyone and everything you left behind in N.O.
It ought to be pretty safe in Crowley. Even Audrey didn't do too much damage. It's on fairly high ground (it may even be above sea level!)...

I remember Opal in Nawlins -

caught the side edge of it, and I was down at the Levee in the 80 mph winds, waist deep on the street, watching 6 foot waves come crashing over the wall...

wouldn't wanna be there now, and I'm prayin that all the good folks down there make it thru okay.

Oh, and for Kos...

there might be more National Guard around if more people signed up to help their country instead of attacking it, pissant. Hope yer happy.

Well [expletive deleted], it sounds like, less than 24 hours from now, New Orleans will have ceased to exist, as we know it, for six months to more than a year.

/concentrate on saving lives, barring a miracle (and I will continue to pray for a miracle), the infrastructure seems to be [expletive deleted]

goodnight all

#198 RebTex

Is the "blue" considered dry? It's interspersed with green.

The "swathe" appears to be as far north as Jackson and moving west.

Is this correct?

204 LanceKates

Night, honey.

#193 Rebtex

Does it go something like this?
Hey, Rebtex, Got a light?

Lake Charles is almost in Texas. They will be ok. That nasty storm has its beady eye right on the city of New Orleans.

#55 TotallySirius

Do these lunatics actually beleive the LaNG(or any human endeavour)could possibly defeat a hurricane?

Meterologists actually tried once to do exactly this. They seeded the clouds of a hurricane with silver nitrate, intending to draw off some of the power -- do not remember when this was done. They succeeded -- they drew off enough energy from the hurricane to make three atomic bombs.

The hurricane didn't even bat an eyelash.

All I can say about the KosKids™ is that fanaticism is what happens when ideology trumps common sense. I don't think these moonbats are worth listening to.

#200 LanceKates

We go to the basement in the event of a tornado.

I love a boomer thunderstorm though, and have trained my children to not be afraid, but to enjoy.

Tsunamis and hurricanes? I head for the hills .

210 rightymouse

When I lived down south, someone asked me would I rather live around tornados or hurricanes?

My answer was hurricanes. I would have enough advance notice to grab what meant the most to me (kids, pets) and drive 500 miles inland. With tornados, you may only have minutes/seconds to take cover.

OK, so, according to the left, the National Guard is an important branch for disaster alleviation/recovery and for fighting in Iraq, but when Bush was in it, the Guard was a cheap way to avoid the draft.

Maybe it's just the Air National Guard they have a problem with?

I've been watching one of the New Orleans webcams, the one focused on the main bridge over the Mississippi River, for the last hour or so. It just stopped updating at 9:21. There seems to be a lot of water on the streets, and the rain is coming down sideways. I guess the outer bands of Katrina have arrived.

# 199

We're roughly 65 miles north of New Orleans.

Riding it out. Looks like it won't be real bad here, max 100 mph winds.

when it comes to blamestorming, i certainly hope the global warming enthusists will explain why their dogma of computer models seems to have failed in regards to Katrina:

[Link: eurota.blogspot.com...]

Friend of Bill
Well....almost!
[Link: img308.imageshack.us...]

#211 got milk?

We've had a few tornados in Ohio. Can always tell when they are coming in and I shuttle the family into the basement. I guess we've been lucky that way. A few trees down, no major damage to the home.

Hurricanes and tsunamis scare me to death. I'd be out of town so fast with my family, it would make your head spin. Would not think twice.

209 stormkitten

They succeeded -- they drew off enough energy from the hurricane to make three atomic bombs.

The hurricane didn't even bat an eyelash.

The hurricane has more energy than our entire nuclear arsenal. Not quite as destructive, because the energy is more diffuse, but we're talking about amounts of energy that are hard to fathom.

217 rightymouse

You don't get tsunamis off of the great lakes, do you? We potentially can get them here in Washington State, on the coastal areas, in particular. Some of the evacuation routes look questionable. I wonder if they've ever done a real drill. They are small communities, but even 10,000 people heading out on a single lane could be a mess.

E2m

This expert disagrees with you regarding the potential for toxic contamination:

Link

Rebtex

Hey Rebtex... how's it going over in your neck of the woods?

"So, we have the potential for release of benzene, hydrochloric acid, chlorine and so on."
Sure Igor, there's ALWAYS that "potential".
There's also a potential that you'll have a fit of Spontaneous Human Combustion & burst into flames.
Money sez this dip$hit is some kinda tree hugger that's never actually shut down a working unit.

NOLA and outlying areas will be the most devistated of course, but Mississippi river and Red river communities will also be affected. I believe the whole state not just the greater N.O. area should be declared a disaster area now not after the fact which will slow down needed aid.

BG Hola, Bonita!
All's quite here.
Traffic calming down.
I've been at the radio helping get our "visitors" where they need to be.
How's yours!?

217 rightymouse

I'd be out of town too, unless the hospital called me up...

Hey, Righty... a friend of mine and her BF survived the tsunami in Thailand... they were in their cabana when the first of three waves hit them..

Lousy-ana-Texan
First post?
Welcome!
Are you in my neck of the woods?

224 Rebtex

Nothing doin here... we're high and dry. My family in Corpus was pretty nervous for a few days.. and are still nervous until this storm goes away... far away..

#219 E2M

on the coastal areas, in particular.

No shit.

Kidding Kidding Kidding
Just struck me as funny, that all.

220 Amy

These chemical plants are going to start flying apart, just as the other buildings do," he predicted. "So, we have the potential for release of benzene, hydrochloric acid, chlorine and so on.

He's loony. These aren't buildings, and they aren't going to come "flying apart". He seems to be affiliated with some sort of university, but if he thinks a chemical plant is built like a building, he is clueless.

The only thing in there that might have a little validity is the possibility of a high wind creating a siphon at a vent. It wouldn't suck the liquid out, but it might collapse a thin-walled tank.

Bad things are possible with this much energy being thrown around, but this "flying apart" stuff is fantasy.

Howdy Rebtex,
Thank you and I'm near Ft Polk.

Earth 2 Moonbat
Some sorta university?!
LSU

#228 Friend of Bill W

As opposed to the inland beaches of the Puget Sound. The ocean shores are kind of remote, and hard to evacuate, and unlike the sound, tend to be flat for a considerable distance.

Lousy-ana-Texan
Well then!
We're about 35 miles apart!
I'm at the dam on Toledo Bend.
Texas side, of course!

The problem with the chemical plants is the columns not being rated for such high sustained winds. If the plants have been shut down after de-inventorying them, so much the better in case of physical failure.

231 RebTex

Read the link. He's out of his mind (or more likely over his head). He's not a chemical plant person, he's some sort of policy wonk. Probably an environmental wacko.

#232 E2M
Got it.
Makes sense now that I think of it.
A lot of things do.
I should try it more often.

Rebtex
Very close.
I'm actually in New Llano
Raised outside of Dallas

Earth 2 Moonbat
Check my #222

LaT
Right at 171 Speedway!
My little one raced there before they closed it down.

234 quark2

I fully expect them to shut down, and get out of there. Any inventory will be in tanks on the ground.

The towers are a lot stronger than you think. They generally have bolts welded to steel piles to the bedrock, and all encased in concrete. They give me the willies when I'm up there, because they do sway. But that's what steel does. I've never heard of one falling over.

238 RebTex

Right.

/Great minds.....

Rebtex
I sponsored a racer for a few years.
He was quite good - never finished below third in the standings.

Quark2
Granted, the towers & vessels are rated for the pressure ...or vacuum....on the INSIDE.
But...I'm with Earth 2 Moonbats on this one.....it'll have to be extreme extreme to get close to what Igor says it'll be.

LaT
You remember the Tech Man that busted a lotta Bombers & several Limiteds 2 years ago?

{RebTex}

{*{ POLLY PRISSY BRITCHES!}*}
WOOOO! HOOOOO!

@240
Well forgive me for showing my ignerance.
I worked in Olefins, Resins and Alkylation/Mtbe for 22 years.
If you read the engineering specs on the columns one of the specs is their wind ratings.
One of my columns wuz only about 359 feet tall.

Quark2
Methyl tertiary butyl ether?!
I've played with that!
Makes an engine reach for the stars!

Rebtex
Yes I do and If I'm not mistaken my driver "Brock" was a happy camper.
He was by the book.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 160 MPH WITH HIGHER GUSTS. KATRINA
IS A CATEGORY FIVE HURRICANE ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON SCALE. SOME
FLUCTUATIONS IN STRENGTH ARE LIKELY PRIOR TO LANDFALL...AND KATRINA
IS EXPECTED TO MAKE LANDFALL AT EITHER CATEGORY FOUR OR FIVE
INTENSITY. WINDS AFFECTING THE UPPER FLOORS OF HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS
WILL BE SIGNIFICANTLY STRONGER THAN THOSE NEAR GROUND LEVEL.

She has slowly been bleeding off wind...

down to 160 now, God willing at this rate she *may* drop to a 4....

Maybe the maker really is a Fat Tuesday fan?

LaT
I'm that Tech Man!
Small World!

Looks like we've lost WWL's live stream from NOLA. A shame, as I've been listening all day, and had planned to tomorrow as well. It was a great "on the ground" source. Thanks to the many for the link.

In regards to the LANG thing, one of my wife's employees wall called very early yesterday in preparation for Katrina.

Rebtex
Well outstanding job.
My driver complained a lot about what he called teams not on the up and up.

LaT
Thanks!
It's usually the guys I busted that I run into! LOL
Soime are STILL mad!

Earth2moonbat #235

He's director of the Louisiana State University Public Health Research Center in Baton Rouge. Doesn't sound like a "moonbat" to me.

He "has studied computer models about the impact of a strong hurricane for four years."

So, I dunno. I hope you're right, and he's wrong.

Not exactly off topic, but if you feel like giving money for disaster relief, I recommend The Salvation Army rather than the Red Cross.

Too many problems, there. By the way, wait until they have some idea of what's needed. The Salvation Army will have a list of what money's needed for by dawn.

earth2moonbats,

The so-called "policy wonk" is a Ph.D. geologist who is an associate professor in the LSU Civil and Environmental Engineering Department.

I think he knows more about the chemical plants down here than you do, given that he's been in this area for years and has been modeling hurricane stuff for awhile.

Rebtex
Your welcome.
Just doing your job.
Gotta go study I'm trying to "master"
my education.
Good night all and stay safe.

Amy
There's a giant step between studying what a computer "thinks" is going to happen & how things go in the real world.
Think back 2 days.....The computers thought this storm was going in at the Florida panhandle.
Granted, it's not THAT far off.....but it's still a pretty good walk between the 2 points.

LaT
See you later.
You've found a good place to keep up with things!

I guess I know the answer but doesn't Kos understand the concept of research? I seem to recall hearing that the National Guard was in force in New Orleans and that a couple of them were on Fox News patting people down as they were entering the Superdome.

Superdome. Superdummy.

earth2moonbats,

Bedrock? BEDROCK? This is Louisiana. There ain't no bedrock....

256 Amy

I got involved in emmisions disperion modeling at one point. It is very sophisticated stuff. I have respect for that sort of expertese. But it has nothing to do with the structural issues that he's glossing over. His expertise lies in what happens to the stuff once it gets out. Not with what can make it get out. If I had to guess, maybe he wants to believe (and have others believe) that it's a lot easier than it really is, because that makes his work more important.

Also, understand that there is a huge difference between a plant that is in operation, and one that has been shut down and drained. They have had enough notice to do a graceful planned shutdown. They're nuts of they try to keep operating through this.

But, as I said, if you have bad management, all bets are off.....

@248 RebTex

No playing with that shi'ite by me! I hated being around it.
But at least it didn't linger smell wise the way
green oil does. ewwwwww!

Just stopped by Michelle Malkin's site. She's got a long list of Katrina-related links.

#258 YouGottaBeKidding

YouGottaBeKidding. Civil and Environmental?

Try chemical engineering. Those are the people who know this stuff. And the tanks are designed by mechanical engineers. Not environmental.

As for the bedrock, you may be right, I recall pilings to bedrock in muddy areas other that Lousiana, but the foundations are very secure, however the geotechnical engineers design them there. Sometimes these piles would go down over 100 feet, but my understanding is that there is rock down there somewhere. Regardless, the structures don't sink. And there is a lot of weight on them.

All of your BEDROCK are belong to us!

Amy
This guy is an environmentalist.
He has a Marine Sciences major.
Although he attended school at LSU through 1983, he didn't Naturalize untill 1993.
As I read through his background, there's not even 1 month where he shows ANY work or education in the petrochemical field.
It was immediate evident by his use of a single word...."potential".

I can remember Shell Oil in Deer Park made the bad decision to run the complex during a hurricane once. I didn't volunteer my services.
The numbnutz who did regretted it right after showing up for work.

Amy
I take that back!
From August 1987 till January 1989, he was the manager of a off-shore diamond mining operation. It was located off Africa.
He was also involved in a gold mining company.

270 quark2

The numbnutz who did regretted it right after showing up for work.

Did they eventually shut down? My recollection of running in high winds was one night when the aluminum insulation sheathing got blown off of a tank, blew across the road, and landed in the busswork of a substation. They operators said it was loud. And bright. By the time I got there - I kid you not - I drove right past the plant. It was that dark. As I turned around, and went back, I barely made out a security guard's flashlight.

Wish I had been there to experience it.

271 RebTex

Stop picking on Amy! She's a nice lady!

Please don't mis-understand my point.
I have nothing against Amy, nor anyone here.
I just don't take all things at face value.
This guy is grabbing the spotlight to illuminate a personal agenda.
His Curriculum Vitae speaks volumns about his background.....& lack there of.

274 RebTex

That was my personal hunch without going into the actual credentials. I think we're in complete agreement. I am completely confident that no chemical plants are going to come "flying apart". Not even with numbnutz operators running them in a hurricane.

From the Swing State Project:
. . . head start the Superdome is giving you supporters of minority internment. Of course we don't believe Bush caused the hurricane . . .

Arrrrrrrrgh! the utter unreasoning hatred from these moonbats was at first, breathtaking -- but now it's just . . . really, really sad.

Emergency shelter from a hurricane has allowed the evil Rovite Repugs to get an early start on rounding up minorities (!?) Did I miss a memo?

Rove, you magnificent . . .

@272 earth2moonbats

Nope, they sure didn't. This happened back in '83 I believe. It was frickin' insane! I refused to go in, after being called for overtime. I told the foreman 'hell no'.
There was lots of insulation flying around along with electrical lines snapping and zapping.
The funnest thing I ever saw was the top half of a sphere launch itself and land in front of one the maintenance trucks driving past the tank farm where the top was supposed to stay.
Scared the life out of the guy driving the truck.

RebTex,

I thought van Heerden was a geologist. I know his ex-wife, who is a friend of a friend of mine, who was also married to a geologist, who was an arch enemy of my ex-husband, also a geologist (petroleum). Lesson learned? Avoid geologists .

#278 YouGottaBeKidding

My mom's first hubby was a geologist, and I'm sure she would have agreed with you. :)

[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]

The NWS National Hurricane Center page linked above has links to lots of current satellite pictures of the gulf.

They are hypnotic - the real image one is scary as all get out.

Bush joins the National Guard: The Guard is a joke and everyone in it is "AWOL".

Bush is out of the Guard: The Guard is a key aspect of our national defense and Bush is underfunding it.

Gotta love the left. Pretzel logic and idiocy at it's finest.

They do have the most bumperstickers, though.

Regarding the National Guard issue: The LNG themselves have already told everybody that they have more than enough Guardsmen on duty to handle the crisis.

Once again, raving Lefties get bitch-slapped by the truth.