don'tcha just love peace?

Time for a Paleo Smackdown!

Navy late this one time , but the Navy was on duty....................................

IDF should "shake" 'em harder.

I read that wrong, I thought it said MELTDOWN, and got my hopes up. DAMMIT!

See, if the Israelis wouldn't engage in oppressive, hostile, violent actions like this against the peace-loving Palestinian people, them Palestinian youths wouldn't be radicalised into taking action to defend themselves, and could go back to peacefully playing midnight basketball!

/I don't really need it, do I?

I don't know why Israel can't just accept the fact that peace will only come once they're driven into the sea and wiped off the face of the earth. It seems simple enough to me.

Are they still trying to perpetuate that "Ceasefire" myth? WTF?

gunmen killed three settlers

Or:

frigging terrorists murdered three kids waiting for a bus

The language, the language. It will kill us more than the bullets...

The Palestinians finally have a chance to get their economy moving and then they blow it. These pea-heads had to know that the Israelis would be forced to do some painful collective punishment to make Palestinians lives even more miserable. So now even Palestinians with cars can only use them on the back roads. When the issue of where to put the fence comes up there will be further arguements in favor of putting it where it will save the most Israeli lives notwithstanding what it does to the poor Palistinians.
This move is consistant with the old maxim of the Palistinians never missing a opportunity to miss an opportunity. Dumb bastards.
Maybe the productive ones will move to Jordan.

Ah, but the Isrealis must have done SOMETHING to provoke the Palestinian freedom fighters! Something like existing, maybe.

Took 'em 16 paragraphs to get to this:

The settlers killed in the Gush Etzion attack -- two women, aged 21 and 23, and a 15-year-old youth -- were buried on Monday. Two settlers were wounded in the second ambush.

Guess the slaughter of innocents angle of the story was lost on them.

Peace, such a dreamy concept!

Did I just hear the DOOR slamming shut?

Ah yes, the traffic jam - the deadliest weapon in Israel's arsenal. A plague of traffic jams on the Arabs!

The Egyptians understand full well how temporary (and dishonest) this 'response':

Egypt: We hear once in a while that Israel, PA halted talks, but soon they restart (AP)

Condi is on the way to straighten out the Joos.

It would really be terrific if Israel would "launch a clampdown" on the damn media at the same time. Notice how nearly all the media refer to these murdered individuals as "settlers". I guess that makes it all right to kill them. They're not really people you see- just settlers stealing someone else's land.

Ahh, those "poor, miserable Palestinians" who define a "cease-fire" as launching rocket attacks, suicide bombings and drive-by shootings only every other day.

::spit::

There is only one way for the Jewish state to survive, and that is , cut off all ties with western goverments, ban all newspapers and magizines for 6months, turn off all the tv stations. When that is done, proceed with vigor in cleaning out the cockroaches in all of the Pali territories. Until Isrial stops paying attention to outside govts, they are destined to be slaughtered one bomb at a time. This might be said for President Bush as well. We elected what we thought was a Harry Truman, but are getting whats looks more like Lyndon Johnson.

This isn't as real crackdown on terror.
Abbas will be in the states soon. Bush will ask for Israeli gestures, so Israel is simply collecting subjects for the next prisoner release.

Been there.
Seen it.

Can't we just give disproportional response a chance?

Carpet bomb their population centers. Kill ten thousand for each crime. Cut off all electricity and water. The world is going to condemn Israel no matter how she responds. So why not make it actions worthy of condemnation?

I spoke too soon.

Israel will respond to West Bank terrorism the same way it responds to terrorism emanating from Gaza, a senior official in the Prime Minister's Office said...

Empty buildings beware!

#16 ddd

I wish that Paul Tagliabue would retire, so that Rice could take over as NFL commissioner. She could then take the job she really wants, and she wouldn't be able to go to Israel anymore, and pull that "evenhandedness" bullsh*t on them.

#21,

Missing your /sarc tag?

The BBC News presenter last night asked the correspondent what the motive for the attack might have been.

Because the media love to call all murdered Israelis "settlers" in an attempt to dehumanize them, perhaps we should return the favor and come up with an alternative but descriptive word to dehumanize these Jew-hating bastards in the media. Any suggestions?

ddd (#16),

Three Israelis are murdered and you use the occasion to take a cheap shot at the Secretary of State?

Nice.

"Shaky ceasefire," what bull^*&%. There wouldn't be ANY FIRE if the Paleos didn't start it every time.

Have the MSM and world leaders never spent any time in a nursery school? That's where you see the little brats who punch other kids or steal their milk or break something and then scream, "He did it! He started it! It was him!"

And the smart teacher can see at once who REALLY "did it" and "started it."

So the MSM and some of our own leaders are dumber than your average nursery-school teacher.

21- Israel is a civilized democracy. Not in their nature to do mass collective punishment, although they are frequently accused of that.

But I suspect they have at least an idea of where Hamas/IJ leaders meet and sleep, and a dozen helicopter gunships firing a few dozen missiles, well, one or two are bound to kill a high value target.

#10 TimK

Maybe the productive ones will move to Jordan

Tens of thousands already have, Tim, and to other points on the globe, from Eurabia to N. America....
To me, this is the simplicity of the matzav (situation): - Why is there no effort to encourage this emigration, through easing exit permitting, diplomacy towards resettlement abroad, and economic assistance to leave.
It costs billions (and blood and lives) to preserve the status quo. Compare the costs of offering each Muslim Arab family $100 K to emigrate. Yesha would empty in a year - hundreds of thousands would leave.
You think they (the 'average' Muslim Arab "Palestinians") truly love living under the rule of the scum PA and street gangs?
They have no roots in the Land, their lives are hell (largely of their own making but not everyone has the courage to stand up to threats of lynching and/or incarceration), and most have relatives and family elsewhere, from the Caucassus to the Sudan...

Let their people go.

>>>>> That ceasefire might not be so “shaky” if the Palestinians could kick their murder habit. It gets shakier every time they launch rockets into Israel, and shakier still when they fire into a crowd of people on a street.

Why would the Arabs “kick their murder habit”?

These Arabs are murderous monsters but they are no fools. Their “murder habit” brought them much success in Europe and in the U.S.A.

As I indicated yesterday, (littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=17895#c005 2) the leader of these bloody terrorists is right now on his way to the U.S.A.

THE BLOODY TERRORIST WILL BE GIVEN A STATELY RECEPTION AT THE WHITE HOUSE BY HIS DEAR FRIEND AND PASSIONATE TERRORISTS SUPPORTER, GEORGE W. BUSH.

As long as the Arab terrorists enjoy the support of the President of the U.S.A., they will not “kick their murder habit”.

#26 MJ

'Journalist' does it. What sort of human, upon coming across dead and wounded, whips out a camera rather than helping save lives and comfort the injured?

#15 Colt

Ah yes, the traffic jam - the deadliest weapon in Israel's arsenal.

Nobody expects the Zionist traffic jam!

#21

"Can't we just give disproportional response a chance?

No.

"Carpet bomb their population centers. Kill ten thousand for each crime."

No.

"So why not make it actions worthy of condemnation?"

Genocide would certainly be worthy of condemnation, putting Israel in the ever-so-desirable company of the Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists, Pol Pot, the Sudanese Arabs and the Wahhabist Islamofascists. Lovely.

It is interesting to me that the Israelis are denominated settlers even though they are teen-agers, almost certainly born there. Are they settlers because Jews have no right to live where they are born? IMHO, this is the clear anti-semitic intent of the article.

OT: Internet Censorship

I have been blocked from using Jihad Watch and many other sites at the ISP level, presumably without the ISP's knowledge (their techies claim that they do not block sites). For the information of anyone else having this problem, you can access Jihad Watch using a proxy like Anonymizer but it costs money and, if you use their free proxy, you can't post.

Thus, first of all, I recommend reading this great article about bypassing internet censorship:

[Link: www.zensur.freerk.com...]

Then, you can do further research, or decide to use one of the options that the author describes depending on the method of censorship being used.

My ISP seems to be blocking access at the DNS server level, so when my browser calls for the IP address, it comes up as no address found.

Upon some reflection, I decided to use an anonymous surfing method called JAP, available here:

[Link: anon.inf.tu-dresden.de...]

The only caveat that I have with JAP is that it slows your surfing speed down; however, that is a small price to pay for the ability to bypass censorship.

The Mobots are trying to shut us down folks but they don't know who they are are messin' with. LIVE FREE OR DIE!

#36 Mentat

Use [Link: www.webwarper.net....] Its free, though you do get pop-ups sometimes (which you can switch off).

#31, GH

THE BLOODY TERRORIST WILL BE GIVEN A STATELY RECEPTION AT THE WHITE HOUSE BY HIS DEAR FRIEND AND PASSIONATE TERRORISTS SUPPORTER, GEORGE W. BUSH.

Don't have to yell. Heard ya the first two times.

Israel Insider gets it: Israel responds to massacre by banning Palestinian travel on Israeli roads

It's like the plagues all over again!

'Israel's using AIDS against us'

A PA series aired over Ramadan contains incitement-charged scenes which portray Israel as willing to use drugs and AIDS against Palestinians

/yawn

Perhaps its time to ring the West Bank with these:

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

A little indisriminant rocket fire can go a long way

#38 Dar ul Harb

Assuming you are an American,

Are you embarrassed? Are you ashamed?

GOOD! You should be.

#30 Tiburon

Bad idea to import folks like that to western countries. You should read about the problems Europe is having with its muslim population.

There is no way to determine moderate from extremist, even if the famed moderate muslim exists. For example, is it moderate to want your new country to ban Piglet from the workplace? Is it moderate to demand sharia law just like you had back in the your good old Islamic country you fled? Haven't you heard of the "slow" jihad, aka demographic expansion and conquest?

Let them stay. Let them work it out in their own territory, and on each other. Don't them them spread their love of death and destruction to healthy countries.

#39 Colt

What happened to the targeted killings of Hamas.... leadership? If any strategy is likely to produce results - nothing being likely to end the conflict - it's killing the leadership.

#44 Beagle

What happened to the targeted killings of Hamas.... leadership?

It is 'under review' by the government and army. It'll probably end up being 'ticking bombs only'.

#26 MJ

Scribblers.

Gotta love the way they denigrate those who are murdered as "settlers."

#34 Amy

Not only are you right about everything, but in addition, it wouldn't even have the desired effect. That kind of indiscriminent response is exactly what they want. People need to remember that for the other side, people are expendable pawns, and a major strike against civilians would cost them nothing while paying out big dividends in the propaganda war.

Remember, folks: Good guys carefully target military (including terrorist infrastructure) targets; bad guys blow up civilians.

39 colt

Israel responds to massacre by banning Palestinian travel on Israeli roads

yeah that'll teach'em. Whatsamatter, no empty buildings to blow up?

#10 TimK

Maybe the productive ones will move to Jordan.

Bingo. That is ultimately what is wrong with the palestinians. All of the non-crazy ones who just want to have normal lives of work and family and have their children be safe have moved away. Some to Jordan as you say, lots to America, Europe, etc. Where they manage to be more or less upstanding productive citizens. Of the ones left behind, what you have are the crazies, and the people who are too unskilled and/or stupid to make it in the normals' world.

cathy :-)

#30 Tiburon

"...It costs billions (and blood and lives) to preserve the status quo. Compare the costs of offering each Muslim Arab family $100 K to emigrate. Yesha would empty in a year - hundreds of thousands would leave...".

Tiburon, explain what would prevent them from taking the money and coming back in.

For the sake of perspective...:

Mofaz: PA not doing enough in way of reforms, fighting terror - March 2005

No grace period for Abbas, Sharon says January 2005

Mofaz: PA must halt terror by end of September - August 2003

Shalom: Abbas the same as Arafat - July 2003

# 30 Tiberon, # 43

I had assumed that great numbers had left. I think I saw an article that said the population surveys of the Palestinians was grossly inflated, given the numbers that had left.

My real hope is that they leave to go to another Middle Eastern Muslim country. As things are going now I am sure that more than a few Muslims will soon be thrown out of the various Western countries that they have infested.

#49 Joel

Whatsamatter, no empty buildings to blow up?

Not at all - the PMO is threatening just that.

# 31 GH

PASSIONATE TERRORISTS SUPPORTER, GEORGE W. BUSH.

Suicide is the only known cure for advanced BDS. Come to Oregon and you can find a doctor to help you administer that cure.

::Shakes head sadly::

#55 Fatal

1. Is the PLO a terrorist organisation?

2. Is Mahmoud Abbas the leader of the PLO?

3. Is Mahmoud Abbas about to be recieved by the President of the United States?

'Supporter' is too strong a word, but not by a lot.

levi from queens (#35),

It is interesting to me that the Israelis are denominated settlers even though they are teen-agers, almost certainly born there. Are they settlers because Jews have no right to live where they are born? IMHO, this is the clear anti-semitic intent of the article.

And the flip side of that coin is the third generation palestinian kids in 50 year old cities are referred to as "displaced persons living in refugee camps awaiting their 'right' to return".

Nope, no bias whatsoever.

well-put Geepers

#57 Geepers

And the flip side of that coin is the third generation palestinian kids in 50 year old cities are referred to as "displaced persons living in refugee camps awaiting their 'right' to return".

I'm an old house fan, and I live in a 100-yr-old house with magnificent woodwork, so I tend to notice these things. During the MSM's "coverage" (i.e. invention) of the Jenin "massacre" I saw a wire-service photo whose caption claimed that it showed Israeli troops harassing the poor refugees in the Jenin "refugee camp." A couple of IDF troops were talking to some Palestinians in the doorway of their house. The thing that jumped out at me was the door. It was a magnificant oak door, beautifully finished. A fanstastic door, the kind to set woodwork fiends like me to drooling.

cathy :-)

#56 Colt

I posted statements about the President’s support for Arab terrorists on numerous occasions; I always provided some FACTS to substantiate my statement, similar to your post (#56).

IN ALL these cases, there were responses similar to Fatal’s (#55), usually using foul language and personal insults.

When Fatal and other like him cannot argue with FACTS, they use abusive language. This is all these creatures are able to do.

# 60 GH

Apparently when people like you argue, you decide not to read what was actually written and instead rely an your emotive response. Please point out where I used "abusive language".

The abusive language used was calling the President a "Terrorist supporter". Remember it was President Bush who refused to meet with Arafat while Clinton entertained him at the White house more than any other world leader (Facts enough for you?) Do you condemn any world leader who meets with someone you don't approve of?

Now, you condemn our President for even deeming to "meet with" Abbas. What would you have him do, order the execution of every living "Palestinian", or try to put pressue on the "leader" of their "government" to end the violence?

Instead of throwing out criticisms, why don't you share some of your brilliance by offering an alternate solution.

The old moral equivalence rears its ugly head time after time. According to the news media the prospects for peace are shaken by "the latest fighting".

As if there is some equivelence between the murder of three Israeli civilian bystanders by terrorist thugs and the apprehension and killing of Palestinians who are bent on murdering innocents in a society where their leaders won't arrest and disarm them in accordance with their international obligations.

Don't you see what the AP is trying to do? After 3 settlers were killed.
In the OCCUPIED West Bank. People in Southern Jerusalem aren't people they are "settlers"

#61 Fatal

>>>> Please point out where I used "abusive language".

Posting #55.

>>>> Do you condemn any world leader who meets with someone you don't approve of?

Abu Mazen is not just “someone” I don’t approve of. He is a leader of a murderous terrorist organisation.

YES, I strongly condemn ANY PERSON who supports terrorists.

>>>>> What would you have him do…?

I suggest that Bush DOES what he PREACHES time and again: FIGHT TERRORISTS!

>>>> …or try to put pressue on the "leader" of their "government" to end the violence?

WHAT PRESSURE? Bush supports the terrorists with financial and political aid and pledged to grant them a sovereign state.

>>>> Instead of throwing out criticisms, why don't you share some of your brilliance by offering an alternate solution.

No new ideas are needed; the old idea preached by Bush is all we need: A TRUE WAR ON TERRORISM.

The only problem I have with Israelis - justifiably - criticizing the United States for 'supporting terrorism' is the Israelis who also do it. We both have some nasty skeletons in our closet.

It's almost a given that someone posting at LGF supports Israel's right to exist. That's the beginning and end of the discussion for me. Once I realized the conflict isn't about little strips of land but the existential right of Israel, the worm turned so to speak.

Obviously our State Department drinks some kind of scary Kool Aid, but don't blame that on all Americans. Every president has to talk to Arab leaders. Israeli PM's do the same thing.

We'd all like to settle this titanic struggle over the next couple of weeks, but it's not going to happen.

Three Israelis are murdered and you use the occasion to take a cheap shot at the Secretary of State?

I guess that's because thinking people realize that if it were not for the friggin state dept, these Israelis might not have been murdered, because the terrorists nests that spawned these fuckers would have been cleaned out long ago by any country not blackmailed by a vital ally/'friend'.

Rice, and those she speaks for, can fuck themselves. Damn them to hell.

Why is there such a LARGE peace movement in Europe? Because WW1 and WW2, those wars were so horrific that they lost their love of death in such a scale. The islamofacists need to feel the same horror of slaughter in those levels TAKE THE LOVE OF WAR AWAY! I preach to the choir and of course at what scale does this horror have to happen....unfortunately the innocents will be made to suffer.

# 64 GH

Here is the entire text of my post, please point out the foul and abusive language or retract your accusation.

Suicide is the only known cure for advanced BDS. Come to Oregon and you can find a doctor to help you administer that cure.

::Shakes head sadly::

Your solution is for the U.S. to declare war on the P.A.? And you believe this is something that the President can and should do?

Wow, just wow.

#65 Beagle

>>>> The only problem I have with Israelis - justifiably - criticizing the United States for 'supporting terrorism' is the Israelis who also do it.

>>>> Obviously our State Department drinks some kind of scary Kool Aid, but don't blame that on all Americans.

I NEVER accused ALL AMERICANS!

I was always very careful to be very explicit in my accusations; I named the notorious terrorists supporters by title and name:

-- President James E. Carter,
-- President William G. Clinton,
-- President George W. Bush.

>>>>> Every president has to talk to Arab leaders.

The President of the U.S.A. does not have to and, indeed, he did not. E.g., Bush never invited Saddam Hussein to the White House.

Your solution is for the U.S. to declare war on the P.A.?

Wow. That's a straw man argument if I ever saw one.

How about the US just butt out, and let the Israelis and 'palestinians' settle it?

It's not a question of the US 'declaring war' on the PA, it is a situation of the US forcing ISrael into a shotgun wedding with a known murderous husband.

Just butt out. Stop meddling. Let ISrael assume it's natural balance in the middle east, commensurate with its economic and military power. Just like any other nation in the world is allowed to find its own place among the nations.

PARIS (Reuters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said on Monday he was confident that Israel would quickly resume security contacts with the Palestinians, suspended after gunmen killed three Jewish settlers in the occupied West Bank.

Israel severed security contacts after the flare-up in the occupied West Bank on Sunday, when Israel also killed a senior Islamic militant who opened fire on Israeli troops.

"As for relations and contacts with the Israelis, we are completely certain they are going to resume very rapidly because there are many things we can tackle with the Israelis and which must be discussed," Abbas said before talks in Paris with French President Jacques Chirac.

"We are sorry about what happened yesterday. These events undermine the truce and calm we had respected ... We know certain people want to undermine us and carry out acts such as these which harm us," he said.

The latest violence raised new doubts about an already shaky eight-month-old ceasefire and over whether Israel's pullout from the Gaza Strip after 38 years of military rule would spur renewed peacemaking.

Abbas was holding talks in Paris before meeting U.S. President George W. Bush later this week. An aide said the talks with Bush would focus on how to revive an international peace plan known as the "road map".

[Link: today.reuters.com...]

# 70 MM posted:

Wow. That's a straw man argument if I ever saw one.

At # 64 GH posted:

Abu Mazen is not just “someone” I don’t approve of. He is a leader of a murderous terrorist organisation.

I suggest that Bush DOES what he PREACHES time and again: FIGHT TERRORISTS!

No new ideas are needed; the old idea preached by Bush is all we need: A TRUE WAR ON TERRORISM.

Sure looks to me like GH has labeled the PA a "terrorist organisation" and called upon the President to "FIGHT TERRORISTS" and to wage "A TRUE WAR ON TERRORISM".

Sure looks to me like GH is calling upon the President to declare war on the P.A.

I don't think "straw man" means what you think it means.

I am outta here, far too much of the "stuck on stupid" going on.

# 71

Abbas is correct in assuming Israel will quickly resume security contacts with the PA.

Abbas has already placated the US administration by saying, "We are sorry about what happened yesterday. These events undermine the truce and calm we had respected ... We know certain people want to undermine us and carry out acts such as these which harm us."

It's not really necessary that the PA actually do something about stopping terrorism, even if it's emanating from Abbas's own Fatah organization. He just has to say that he's sorry that it happened.

He just has to say that he's sorry that it happened.

Yep.

"I'm sorry it happened. CAn I have another $50 million, please?"

Rice: "Sure, sweet pea, here ya go."

#24 Dar ul Harb

Nope. No sarc tag needed.

I realize that even if Israel were to kill each and every Arab that has been designated as a "Palestinian", the Arabs would just designate millions more to take their place.

I'm just tired of bombing empty buildings in the hope that it teaches the Arabs a lesson. It doesn't and I think they should try something new.

Will bombing them lead to peace? Of course not. It will never make the Arabs accept the Israelis. Will negotiating lead to peace? Of course not. It will never make the Arabs accept the Israelis.

So why not try something new?

#34 Amy

Genocide would certainly be worthy of condemnation, putting Israel in the ever-so-desirable company of the Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists, Pol Pot, the Sudanese Arabs and the Wahhabist Islamofascists. Lovely.

And how is that any different that what is being said currently in the halls of the UN? Israel is already accused of being all this and more, so why not make the UN right for the first time in it's existance?

Will bombing them lead to peace?

I don't know. It's never been tried - not in Iraq either, BTW, on anything like the scale used to humble germany and japan.

It might.

It will never make the Arabs accept the Israelis.

Acceptance may come decades after the will to fight has been beaten out of them. It usually does. But again, it's never been tried.

And if it doesn't, so what? It's not like we can't survive without dates and inlaid backgammon sets. As long as their ability and will to fight are gone, that's good enough for most, I'm sure.

This shakey ceasefire is entirely and completely the fault of the IDF. If they were doing their job, there would be no successful murdering of Jews by Palestinians and therefore the cease fire would be holding. Stupid incompetent IDF. Its all their fault.

(Yes, sarc tags.)

#68

Your solution is for the U.S. to declare war on the P.A.? And you believe this is something that the President can and should do?

Well, let's see. Isn't it the Executive Branch that desginates terrorist organizations? And is there the slightest doubt that the P.A. throughout its entire sorry existence, all the way back to the first Ostrich, sorry, Oslo, Accords -- has funded, planned, carried out, and encouraged terrorist attacks against innocent civilians?

Granted, the POTUS cannot declare war. But he can certainly call a terrorist organization a terrorist organization and deal with that organization appropriately instead of inviting its murderous leader to the White House. My hat's off to GWB for refusing to meet with and toady up to Arafat, yemach shmo. But my yarmulke and my head are both still on, and I can't pretend that GWB isn't pretending that replacing Arafat yemach shmo with Abu Mamser yemach shmo solved the problem.

Am I sorry I voted (twice) for GWB? Of course not. Consider the alternatives. But am I sorry he is not acting like the man I hoped he would? Yeah. Big time.

#22

srael will respond to West Bank terrorism the same way it responds to terrorism emanating from Gaza

Run Forrest...Ariel Run

This information on the victims of yesterday's terror attack comes from Israel Resource News Agency.
________

The two young women who were killed were cousins.

One was Meitat Rosenfeld-Adler, 23, who was married for just two months, and is survived by her parents and five siblings In Carmel, as well as her husband. She had finished her IDF service in the Intelligence Division four months ago and was planning on attending law school to become a lawyer and then a judge, to "bring justice" to the system in Israel.

After having buried his wife of two months, Yisrael Adler will be able to sit shiva for her for less than a day -- rather than a week. (Jewish law says that shiva, which is a public mourning, is interrupted by a holiday.) He will then sit in the sukkah that had been built for the two of them.

Kinneret Mandel -- the first girl born in Carmel 24 years ago -- is survived by parents and four siblings. She was a fifth grade science teacher at Alon Shvut. Next Shabbat, her cousin was going to celebrate his bar mitzvah luncheon in her family's sukkah and Kinneret and Meitat had decorated that sukkah in anticipation of this.

When she was killed, she was carrying a lulav and etrog, which were broken on the highway and covered in blood.

The two cousins are also survived by mutual grandparents.

Oz ben Meir, 15, from Maon, was a star athlete and an avid Gemara (Talmud) student. He was on his way home to finish the decorating of his family's sukkah. He is survived by five siblings, parents and grandparent.

Three more young people were injured in the attack and are in the hospital.

81 Judith

Thank you for that.

"Settlers" is all the news services could call them, in the last few paragraphs of their dispatches.

If those pesky Isrealis would just get out of the Middle East everything would be fine. Why do they have to incite violence by existing? Who can blame the poor Palestinians?

Puke.

Don't worry guys. According to Egypt's ambassador to Israel, the 'Attack too small to stop calm'

In an interview with Ynet, Ibrahim expressed optimism, saying, "with all due respect, a small attack" wouldn't endanger moves towards creating calm in the region.

Our friends, the Egyptians.

Egypt's ambassador to Israel goes on to psycho-analyze Israelis:

There is always criticism in Israel and there is always a lack of satisfaction. The nation in Israel is critical in a constant way, it criticizes itself, its government, and its press. The Israeli people thinks dynamically, it searches for mistakes and its mind works – that's why it doesn't stop criticizing and worrying and this doesn't bother me.

#76

Please. Since when does what the UN think define how Jews think of themselves?

Jews have been vilified throughout history, but the point is that we did not internalize the opinions of others. We kept our standards, our values, our ethics, and our self-esteem as God's people and a light unto the nations.

What you're advocating is that we internalize the world's opinions and make them a self-fulfilling prophecy.

No thank you.

Time for Bush to give more money and meet with the PLO and reject Jerusalem as the capital of Israel!

#86 Amy 10/17/2005 11:38AM PDT
#76

Please. Since when does what the UN think define how Jews think of themselves?

You are not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. The UN could care less of what Jews think or feel. It has never even entered into any of the hundreds of resolutions condemning her. The first resolution the UN drafts declaring the murder of Jews to be wrong will be it's first.

Let's face it, a PLO-Arab murders his fellow PLO-Arab. ISM marks it down as Israeli instigated murder and adds it to their statistics of how bad Jews are. The world gets together and writes resolutions saying Zionism is racism and that Israel should commit suicide to be right with international law.

When Israel is moral, she gets condemned. When Israel protects herself, she gets condemned. So why should Israel keep doing the same stuff and continued to be condemned for it. Repeating the same action over and over again and expecting different results is silly. Israel needs to act and think out of the box. She is going to be condemned whether she acts in a moral manner or not. And just maybe, if she hits the PLO-Arabs hard enough, they might think that murdering Jews isn't the path they should take.

# 86
"Jews have been vilified throughout history, but the point is that we did not internalize the opinions of others."

Well, most of us didn't internalize the hatred others shown to us. Of course, there are exceptions:

Noam Chomsky
Stephen and Hilary Rose
Adam Shapiro
Robert Novak
the Neturei Karta
Ilan Pappe
Norman Finkelstein
Sara Roy
Tony Judt
Norton Mezvinsky
Gerald Kaufman
George Soros

MJ - I take some comfort from the fact that the many of those on your list of shame were not raised as Jews, are only Jews because of a Jewish mother whose grandfather was considered Orthodox because the shul he refused to set foot in was Orthodox and therefore they likely don't know any better.

The latest fighting stirred new doubts about an already shaky eight-month-old ceasefire ...

Only in the Reuters universe shooting at people waiting for a ride is "fighting". And how many times Reuters had told us about "new doubts about an already shaky eight-month-old ceasefire" in the last eigth months? It sounds positively demented by now.

A little OT but still dealing with the muslime problem.
Sometimes you have to make comparisons and analagies to put things in thier proper light; If you don't throw out your garbage, your house is going to fill with and reek of GARBAGE! Just a little word of advice to Eurabia and Amerabia.
I am with Mr. Savage on one point for sure, and that is that America cannot continue bringing in the least wanted of the turd world and not become the turd world itself. How many hyphenated parasites do we already harbor? Whats with the hyphen? I think it might be a straw sucking the life out of the American. IE Arab-American, African-American, Mexican-American etc... Maybe there is more honesty in these self styled titles that we first thought? What happened to the days of comming to America to become American? I miss those days.

#88

You are not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. The UN could care less of what Jews think or feel. It has never even entered into any of the hundreds of resolutions condemning her. The first resolution the UN drafts declaring the murder of Jews to be wrong will be it's first.

I don't see any reason to insult Amy; if anything, you either did not understand or chose to distort what she wrote.

She did not write that Jews should care what the UN thinks of us; what the contrary, she said explicitly that we should NOT pay attention to what the UN thinks and should not internalize the UN's criticisms.

For centuries, we were accused of poisoning wells, murdering christian (later muslim) children for their blood, immorality, pornography and every manner of disgusting behavior. Does that mean that we would have been justified in engaging in that behavior because we were criticized for it whether we did it or not?

PA spokesmen have said we are using poison gas on children and injecting AIDS into Arab babies. Arab TV says we are surgically removing the eyes from Arab children in order to sell them to Israeli Jews who want beautiful eyes. Does that mean it would be okay for us to do it? Would you rather be the subject of a disgusting false charge or a disgusting accurate charge?

The reason not to carpet bomb (at least not at this stage) is not because of who or what the UN is but because of who and what the Jews are.

Do I advocate that we turn the other cheek? Of course not. I find Sharon's policy of unilateral surrender -- I mean withdrawal -- excuse me, disengagement -- to be foolish and downright immoral. Ditto the policy of not responding to attacks, or of answering the murder of innocents by blowing up an empty building or two. But there are better answers than indiscriminate murder in return. Sharon has used them at times and we have seen them work. Counterattack, even when the killers are hiding behind Arab human shields. Block off villages that spawn the terrorists. Targetted killings of those who plan, conduct or finance terrorist attacks. (Why doesn't that include Abu Mamzer, by the way?). Confiscate the assets of the PA.

geepers #27
If Condi had pushed the PA to disarm the terrorist (yeah I know the PA is really a terrorist organization) this may not happen. All she does is push Israel for more concession.

#69 GH

No need to yell. I'd go further and blame every president and every State Department. What the hell is Sharon doing? Beats me. Burger King is caving in on ice cream. ICE CREAM! CERAMIC PIGS!

yankev #93

You understood exactly what I was saying and said it a lot better than I did.

As for my being insulted, thanks for sticking up for me, but I can only be insulted by those whose opinions matter to me. ;)

Heading home for the evening...