submit

Step away from the pen.

Nice to see the dhimmification of Europe is continuing unabated.

Just put them in the paper edition. That'll fix 'em.

In an earlier online editorial accompanying the publication of the cartoon, Mr Ramm had taken a strong line in support of free speech. “[The Liberal] will not be coerced into self-censorship by the threat of violence from those who use a platform of free speech to call for the destruction of the very system that enfranchises them,” he wrote

Until they threatened to cut up his children.

/only half kidding

This cartoon exactly illustrates Charles' point!

But why would anyone fear attacks from a religion of peace?

Small consolation: At least Ramm is being honest about the reason for self-censorship ("for reasons of safety"), instead of hiding behind "out of respect for Islam" bullsh*t like CNN.

This will only work to a point, there will eventually be a straw that breaks the camels back.

“[The Liberal] will not be coerced into self-censorship by the threat of violence from those who use a platform of free speech to call for the destruction of the very system that enfranchises them,” he wrote.

Hmmm...I guess it will.

Declare war on islam...There are no moderates. Freedom of Speech is the point here no supression.

we need to make a running list of organizations with balls, and those without. And then support them.

That's what happens, I guess, when you don't allow your citizens to protect themselves.

Certainly all the MM's I have been hearing about (on this blog) will step up and protest the fringe element.

Scotland Yard warned the magazine its staff could not be guaranteed protection from possible protests,

Well, not the protests so much per se as the crazed f**ks with knives and the bombs strapped to them.

Well, the FBI called me back again today. Not sure if it was to follow up or to see if I had actually "been blown up by the end of the week" like the calls last Friday threatened. Maybe a bit of each.

Since stopping Ask The Prophet, which was getting repetetive, I actually have time to do my other memes like the Wacky Adventures of Abraham Lincoln.

Of course, the descendants of Abraham Lincoln have yet to ring me up and threaten to blow up my house. But when they do, I'm sure I'll have time for ATP again.

...but the cartoons are bigoted caricatures of a billion individual's most revered prophet...
/LLL seethe

Really?

So, the cartoons are inaccurate? Like This?

Cartoons are Proliferating

It's always harder to make such judgements however when we ourselves are the ones being threatened. How many of us would honestly keep our "hard line" stances when threatened by mobs of angry Muslims?

I hope the chains of dhimmitude rest lightly.

Western man's most important duty has become the act of mocking and denigrating Islam and all Muslims who believe. Our survival depends upon criticising the infamy.

#9 navigatewest

What straw? It has already been demonstrated that Europeans are so fearful of protests that they'll give up freedom of the press. The line keeps moving forward, and the Europeans continue to back away from it.

These things are already out there. I've posted them to my blog - as have many others who post here. They're not going to go away because a few major newspapers bury their heads in the sand any less than the rioting in France went away because the media refused to cover the thousands of cars torched in the course of November 2005.

It's not just fear - it's cowardice.

These journalists and editorialists love to proclaim that they know what's best and seek to impose their views on their readers. Yet, in a moment of truth where editorialism in the form of cartoons becomes a news story of the utmost urgency, they shy away.

Free speech only when it's convenient isn't free speech. You would think that these press outlets, including the NYT who claims that they have a right to publish classified documents because of the public's right to know, shouldn't be able to turn around and claim that these cartoons are too sensitive.

They've drawn a line that makes no sense. No matter how you look at this, the media outlets have performed poorly - first in providing the editorial outlet on the cartoons, and then on the newsworthy aspects of the story, which is what this story is now about.

And for those editors to claim that they can summarize the cartoons in words, couldn't they do the same with any number of items, including every image in the entire paper? That they choose not to is an editorial decision - believing that some things are more newsworthy than others.

In the NYT case, they've found Grammy Award fashion more important than cartoons that resulted in firebombings, riots, and deaths.

look, the only thing this culture understands is fear, domination, & judgment.

what's there to "understand" about them?

there's only one way to engage them, so howsa bout we just get it on?

this won't go away by itself.

Protecting newspaper editors from violent attack? The Metropolitan Police has better things to spend its money on - like standing guard outside mosques, or eavesdropping at curry houses for racist remarks.

Nothing like a can of petrol and some matches (and some really sharp knives) to suddenly make ‘free speech’ negotiable.

Hey Europe (and those in the US who won’t stand up to the ‘seething Muslim street’: You’re only delaying the inevitable. Nothing will appease these people.

Cox & Forkum (PBUT) are cartoon gods.

The pussification of Western civilization.

“[The Liberal] will not be coerced into self-censorship by the threat of violence...actual violence, however, will result in self censorship.

When we start giving up our hard earned rights(paid with our own blood)just because of the threat of violence then we have already lost everything.

We can not and I will not give up one single right just for a perceived sense of safety.

"He who feeds the alligator gets eaten last"

Yes...but it's a particullary vicious rabbit..

Run away..run away!

“[The Liberal] will not be coerced into self-censorship by the threat of violence from those who use a platform of free speech to call for the destruction of the very system that enfranchises them,” he wrote.

Reality bites Liberal.

“[The Liberal] will not be coerced into self-censorship by the threat of violence from those who use a platform of free speech to call for the destruction of the very system that enfranchises them,” he wrote.

Uhhh, on second thought...

Gee - I thought that the whole "no police to protect you" warning was just a Syrian/Iranian/Chinese tactic when it comes to protecting embassies. My bad.

There is yet another risk in allowing raidcal Islam to intimidate the media -- since this is so effective, why should not others also do likewise?

For example, what is to stop a street gang in Los Angeles from forcing the LA Times, CBS, etc, to run only positive stories about them, simply by explicit or implicit threats of violence?

Surely, the old Mafia will return, inspired by Radical Islam!

To Uncoin a phrase

The Sword is mightier than the Pen

Here's true capitulation:

The South African Freedom of Expression Institute says a judgment by the Johannesburg High Court which prevents the publishing of cartoons found offensive by the Muslim community is a major threat to press freedom. The Freedom of Expression Institute argues that while the cartoon should not be published, that decision should be made by newspaper editors not the courts.

The Muslim Judicial Council applied to the High Court for an interdict to prevent two of South Africa's largest media houses publishing the offensive cartoons. The cartoons, which originally appeared in a Danish newspaper, have angered Muslim communities around the globe, sparking riots and protests in many countries.

The judge agreed with the Council's argument that the cartoons impinged on the constitutional rights of the Muslim community to dignity.

Court's Outlawing Prophet Cartoons Seen as Threat to S. African Press Freedom

So just exactly who gets to decide which cartoons are "offensive to the muslim community"?

And what is the penalty for breaking this law?

Now then, what if the enlightened UK (and the rest of Europe) still had the death penalty? First jihadist to kill an editor gets the chair and watch the violence go away.

Nah, that is only for us semi-barbaric boobs in the red states.

I thought the pen was supposed to be mightier then the sword, oh well guess it was just another theory taught in school that doesn't hold up to scrutiny in the real world.

Now i am frightened,
Charles im going to unload some of these cartoons and photshopped here at LGF.

Getting rid of this.
[Link: retecool.com...]

Please dont tell Cair

IMHO: the MSM in the U.S. and Europe have been intimidated by the Islamo-Nazis ever since the anthrax letters started showing up in newsrooms right after the 9/11 attacks.

#8 OR

Indeed, not shame in admitting one would prefer not to be beheaded in the street by Muslim 'protesters'.

protection from possible protests

Now, why wouldja be needing protection from a simple protest?

"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"

Just wait until they demand that all women in the EU take the hijab in public, because the sight of female skin offends them.

Already non-muslim women in France, Sweden and other eurabian countries wear headscarves out of fear of harrassment.

It is coming very soon. This cartoon victory will embolden them.

#37 Prester John

First jihadist to kill an editor gets the chair and watch the violence go away.

If only it were that simple!

But hey, I'm with you on giving them the chair.

Has our favorite free speech professor Ward Churchill weighed in on this whole thing yet? ?

VDH: Losing Civilization

Amazing guy...

How can anyone expect anything different? Journalism today is not true journalism. Look at what passes for journalism these days...the bias, lack of reporting, made up reporting, unadulterated lies. True journalism, thus the defenders of free speech, has been dead for how many years now?

Maybe, in the example of "The artist formerly named Prince," we should refer to Mohammed as "the prophet who has no face."

I guess you guys win, Binnie. Congratulations.

Senior police officers at Scotland Yard warned the magazine its staff could not be guaranteed protection from possible protests, after which the cartoon was pulled from the Liberal’s website and replaced by a large white square with the word “censored” placed over it

#45 Just A Grunt

That POS is going to be the guest speaker in Toronto next week at Israeli Apartheid Week, brought to you by the Arab Student's Collective.

*barf*

Sadly, it is too easy for me to criticize those facing threats of violence against themselves and their families. I sit here in safety manning the keyboard, in an obscure Wisconsin town. I am free to own weapons and firearms, and I take advantage of that opportunity. I know I have a government who has chosen to fight a war on terror, who harbors few illusions as to the nature of the threat.

People in Europe cannot claim these same advantages. Although I wish they were able to defend themselves without fear, maybe they are not in a position to do so at this moment and are doing the best they can to protect the ones they hold dear.

I cannot say I would act differently given the same set of circumstances. I might be bold and claim that I would, but as I said, I sit in an obscure Wisconsin town with guns in my closet.

OT

South Dakota House Bans Abortion... 54-14 vote

[Link: www.cnsnews.com...]

Perhaps I'm feeling optimistic because it's Friday, and I'm going on vacation, but:

IMHO it's WAY too early to declare that the islamists are winning the cartoon jihad. And in fact, I think this is a losing proposition for them. They pulled off the mask too far, too soon. We forget that there are plenty of people in Western countries who really
believe the "Islam is peace" mantra, and make their political selections accordingly. That'll be harder to do now.

Today's DU pearl of wisdom:

The Cartoon riots are the Islamic Boston Tea Party.

See? The are Minutemen!

And here is a recent post on a blog that is 99% non-political.

They might beat the MSM ... but they're not winning.

The Editors at The Phoenix (in Arizona) have come clean as to why the don't publish the cartoon artwork:

The Phoenix (Arizona)
Feb 9, 2006

World of pain

The space between free speech and respect in the ultimate culture war

There are three reasons not to publish the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed with his turban styled as a bomb and the other images that have sparked violent protests and deaths throughout Europe, the Middle East, West Asia, and Indonesia:

1) Out of fear of retaliation from the international brotherhood of radical and bloodthirsty Islamists who seek to impose their will on those who do not believe as they do. This is, frankly, our primary reason for not publishing any of the images in question. Simply stated, we are being terrorized, and as deeply as we believe in the principles of free speech and a free press, we could not in good conscience place the men and women who work at the Phoenix and its related companies in physical jeopardy. As we feel forced, literally, to bend to maniacal pressure, this may be the darkest moment in our 40-year publishing history.

[Link: thephoenix.com...]

The message: violence works.

If every media outlet in the free world had backed the Danish newspaper that first published the editorial artwork, muslims would have to face reality -- that Freedom of the Press cannot be suppressed, and that they must learn to deal with different ideas.

Instead, the dhimmi "mainstream" media caved completely to the mobs, proving that violence and intimidation is a strategy that works.

Cowards.
 

"the prophet who has no face"

Hahahahaha! ! !

Love it.

#17 Dead Man Voting 2/10/2006 11:16AM PST
...but the cartoons are bigoted caricatures of a billion individual's most revered prophet...
/LLL seethe

Aye. But it doesn't matter. They can be completely correct in this seeth and it doesn't matter. You can't kill over being offended.

Man to face charges for printing Koran on toilet paper

The businessman last summer printed sheets of toilet paper with the sentence "Koran, the Holy Qur'aen" and sent them to about 15 mosques, television stations and magazines.

In an accompanying letter, authorities say, he asserted that Islam's holy book is a "cookbook for terrorists" that calls for acts of violence.

/charges, for this?

#52 truthsword:

Check your link.

Senior police officers at Scotland Yard warned the magazine its staff could not be guaranteed protection from possible protests

Translation: We have no intention of enforcing the law.

#47 taterhead

True journalism, thus the defenders of free speech, has been dead for how many years now?

True. Taking cheap shots at Bush or reporting on Jessica Simpson or the latest in cellphone technology does not exactly require courage or a strong character.

There are a few exceptions, like the reporters down on the US/Mexico border who are being shot by Mexican drug lords -- those journalists are brave.

The cartoon jihad is winning

and Big Mo' couldn't be happier.

#36 Geepers - IIRC (and with these meds, you can never tell) didn't you post this on a prior thread?
Well, in case you didn't I posted a truly nonsensical answer to what I thought you posted:

"The judge agreed with the Council's argument that the cartoons impinged on the constitutional rights of the Muslim community to dignity."

WHAT DIGNITY?

#55 William

Out of fear of retaliation from the international brotherhood of radical and bloodthirsty Islamists who seek to impose their will on those who do not believe as they do. This is, frankly, our primary reason for not publishing any of the images in question. Simply stated, we are being terrorized, and as deeply as we believe in the principles of free speech and a free press, we could not in good conscience place the men and women who work at the Phoenix and its related companies in physical jeopardy. As we feel forced, literally, to bend to maniacal pressure, this may be the darkest moment in our 40-year publishing history.

Wow.

Brutal honesty.

But they'll probably get threats for saying they fear bloodthirsty Islamists anyway.

#58 Killian Bundy:

Disturbing the peace?!? You get charged with disturbing the peace for offering a product for sale that might offend someone? That's insanity. Will magazine and book publishers be brought up on charges next?

# 59

ooops... I'll get it straight...

Um, really hate to go OT on this thread, and so early on this thread, at that but:

Thieves Take 186 Tux Jackets, No Shirts
From Associated Press
February 09, 2006 6:19 PM EST
FORT SMITH, Ark. - Police can't classify a break-in at Beau's Tuxedos as a white-collar crime: the thieves stole only tux jackets.

The burglars broke into two vans early Wednesday at the parking lot of the store on busy Rogers Avenue. Missing were 186 black tuxedo jackets. No shirts or any other items were taken, Fort Smith police spokesman Sgt. Jarrard Copeland said Thursday.

[Link: enews.earthlink.net...]

I bet those thieves will, uh, stand out at whatever formal affair they'll be wearing just those tux jackets too!

It is not the neocons, the hawks, the conservatives who should be fighting this battle, it is the liberals.

This is a muslim attack directly on the freedom they value the most (free speech). While they are usually happy to hide behind our brave men and women who protect these ideals (all the while criticizing them), the battlefield has changed.

This is their call to duty. While a few have stepped forward, the majority cower in a corner.

I guess it's easy to challenge someone restricting your freedoms when the the outcome is less bloody.

Every damn paper in America the world should be printing these caricatures. What an embarrassment these institutions are.

#54 Jheka: My favorite from your DUmmies link--

And I suppose it's just an accident that all those brown people are acting badly *just* when Bush wants to start another war?

So all the cartoon rioters around the world are actually Rovian agents! I knew it!

It's getting harder and harder to NOT inslut islam. The crazies are giving us more and more material to work with every day.

Don't forget, in Britain, you're not allowed to own a gun.

And, with all the dismal predictability of a bumper sticker slogan, now only the criminals have guns.

So the publisher would have to protect himself, and good luck to him.

ot:

here it is elsewhere mayhap... (SD House Bans Abortion)

[Link: www.siouxcityjournal.com...]

vote was 47-22...

Sorry for the messup heh

I am just sick of all of this. I can hardly bear to even go online, as this is all I see.

Sigh...

#58 Killian

I was going to say his lawyers could use the fact that the KKK sends out "I'm dreaming of a white Christmas" cards to several organizations that really don't appreciate that humor, and yet it isn't illegal, as precedent, but I see it is Germany.

As much as people talked about Koran toilet paper here, I hope Manfred isn't a lgfer.

Feckin' labia, the whole lot of 'em...

#18 Beagle-

Great link, and it gives me hope to see so many cartooninst engaging this debate.

Cowering Democrats keep bleating about "Culture of Corruption" while the "Culture of Jihad" is blowing down their straw house built on sand and BS about free speech.

Democrats, "fighting" and fragging our military and conservatives & reality-based freedom lovers REALLY fighting the jihadists with our hands tied behind our backs.

#16 Laurence Simon

Loved your "ask the prophet" series while it lasted. And glad you are still safe.

Get your Mohammed Cartoon T-Shirt.

#55 William:

If every media outlet in the free world had backed the Danish newspaper that first published the editorial artwork, muslims would have to face reality

Actually, in a way what the Phoenix editors have done is even better, because it forces US to face reality. When the average American picks up his local paper and reads "we are not publishing this photo because we are afraid of violent reprisal", well, that gets noticed.

#69 Ocassional Reader

And I suppose it's just an accident that all those brown people are acting badly *just* when Bush wants to start another war?

Well no these "brown" people have been peacefully protesting since the the late 70's. For further information see Jimmy Carter; Iranian Embassy Hostages;

#60 I wonder what the reaction would be if Blair came out and said, "We will enforce the laws of the UK and anyone who trespasses onto the property of and/or threatens or hurts anyone associated with the magazines in questions will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and/or will be imprisoned/deported immediately to their home country."

One can still dream I guess.

#73 Bob's Kid

It's is being blown out of proportion. Take a look at the numbers - they are very small. More muslims die every day at the hands of other muslims for whatever perceived insult than have died in all these "protests". It's a nothing.

OTOH - it is very interesting to see how the different MSM outlets have handled it. And Europe of course.

This is very dangerous. I think what people do not understand is that capitulating like this only emboldens moo-slimes.

Extra. Extra. Read all about it. Dutch PM is a PIKER

The Dutch media asked Prime Minister Balkenende during his weekly press conference on Friday about Hirsi Ali's comments. He was initially reluctant to talk about the issue. When pressed, he said "I wonder whether this will help the debate in the Netherlands."

The Prime Minister also said "we don't have much use" for Hirsi Ali's contribution.

#70 Ayatrollah

It's getting harder and harder to NOT inslut islam.

Why bother trying not to? I say insult them all the more. What are they going to do? Threaten to kill you and riot in the streets? Whoops, too late.

Dianna-

Don't forget, in Britain, you're not allowed to own a gun.

That was my point up thread- they can't defend themselves so they have to cave.

I'm just amazed at the abject cowardice of the MSM. Especially after their overwhelming enthusiasm in printing the Abu Graib pictures. Don't you think those pictures endangered our troops you vile, despicable, cowards. The hell with free speech and the 'public's right to know' when it comes to putting your own sorry asses on the line.

#87 W-Lover

Thank God for the Second Amendment! And to think I used to be anti-gun.

What a dweeb I was. Sheesh.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the ROPers start trying to shut up the gays.

#55 William

Great link. Thanks.

Out of fear of retaliation from the international brotherhood of radical and bloodthirsty Islamists who seek to impose their will on those who do not believe as they do. This is, frankly, our primary reason for not publishing any of the images in question. Simply stated, we are being terrorized, and as deeply as we believe in the principles of free speech and a free press, we could not in good conscience place the men and women who work at the Phoenix and its related companies in physical jeopardy. As we feel forced, literally, to bend to maniacal pressure, this may be the darkest moment in our 40-year publishing history.

My question is, how long before this is Bush's fault? Tonight?

This what I'm talking about. The muslims will use this brownshirt cartoon intimidation victory to further impose islam on the masses in the EU:

Muslim dress, school code clash in Britain

The legal battle, which pits an individual's religious freedom against a public institution's need to set rules of conduct, comes as Europe and the Muslim world deal with new, dangerous tensions over the publication of cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed.

Shabina Begum, 17, says she was unlawfully suspended in 2002 from Denbigh High School in Luton, northwest of London, when she insisted on wearing the jilbab, a full-length gown worn by conservative Muslim women that cloaks the entire torso and legs.

And now put down your drink:

Begum's attorney is Cherie Booth, wife of British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Everybody now sing!

na na na na
na na na na
hey hey . . .

Hezbollah vs. Bush:

DUers are torn.

Iran tells Muslims to target U.S., not Denmark, over cartoons

Iran Focus

Tehran, Iran, Feb. 10 – A senior Iranian cleric called on Muslims on Friday to direct their fury over cartoons of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad at the United States, rather than Denmark.

When crowds of worshippers in Tehran chanted “Death to Denmark” during his fiery sermon, Tehran Friday prayers leader Ahmad Khatami told them, “We shouldn’t say ‘Death to Denmark’. Denmark is nothing! We must say, ‘Death to America’. It’s the Americans who set up the likes of the Danes”.

Hey {mama winger}!

I told Mr. Dubs we've got to go load up on guns. I've never felt the need to own one before.

89 mama winger

Shame on you!

LOL

/Still think First and Second Amend are numbered backwards. All of them fall without the right to protection

Mmmm... Guns

95 W-lover

And you too!

{mama winger} {w-lover}

The saddest part of this "cartoon jihad" is how quickly the Western media (with few exceptions) and Western governments caved to the demands of the Islamics.

Criticism of Europe is warranted but so is criticism of American government and media---we caved too. And we caved without protests or threats of violence. Under the pretense of "multiculturalism", "sensitivity" and "diversity" we caved.

The big winners here are the Muslim extremists who have learned a powerful lesson. The Islamics now know that the West accede to irrational demands and threats. Next time they'll demand that the West take affirmative steps to improve the image, position and status of Islam. And we'll cave again.

#90 Dead Sea Squirrel

It will be interesting to see what happens when the ROPers start trying to shut up the gays.

Have any gay groups actually spoken out against the Religion of Seething and Goat Sodomizing?

I don't think the Islamos will try to shut up the gays, they'll skip straight to blowing them up or stoning them to death.

#92 Solomon
So Ms Begum has been seething for 4 years. G_D only knows what kind of irreparable harm this has caused this poor child er Islamic property.

RW

The hell with free speech and the 'public's right to know' when it comes to putting your own sorry asses on the line.

No joke. It pisses me off to no end. When printing the Abu Ghraib pictures, they had no compunction about how it would affect our troops fighting oversees. Now, they all scratch their beards and say, "We don't want to add to the mess."

I don't like to cuss, but what a bunch of f*cking p*ssies. If American soldiers die, "Well, too bad." When it comes to the press sacrificing their own safety..."Well, let's let cooler heads prevail."

#90 Dead Sea Squirrel ~

It will be interesting to see what happens when the ROPers start trying to shut up the gays.

You know, zombie has mentioned quite a few times that that just might be a huge tipping point in this mess and holds out hope that it could actually be a uniting call to arms...

{Keep}-

What? I live in Liberal La-La Land, where everybody is Liberal, therefore you don't need guns for protection!

/really need to?

Where's Patton when you need him? The MSM needs to get slapped and called names they've earned. What a bunch of kowtowing, effeminate, hallucinating Bolshevik, yellow-journalists.

Fear of violence is the obvious reason these publications won't print any of the "Magnificent 12" cartoons. Implied is that the cartoons are a gratuitous insult to Islam, not constructive criticism to encourage reform. The Western Press should print some eye cathching 3 inch high headlines on their publications like "SCREW ISLAM IF IT CAN'T HANDLE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM"-- The Western Press. Then print under the headline 5 pictures. Two of Zombie's historic tastefully done artistic paintings of Mo from the Islamic world. Two pictures of the signs carried in the protests, one being "Behead Those Who Insult Islam". And the Turban Bomb cartoon of Mo. Anyone with a pulse should understand this.
Also we should fight fire with fire. I don't mean any type of violence. If, say, 5% of the Christians and Jews of the world, about 50+ million people, sent an e-mail or other correspondence every day for weeks to every Saudi Arabian, Syrian, Egyptian etc. embassy and news outlet protesting the insulting way that their religions are presented in Islamic publications, maybe they will begin to notice that the door swings both ways.

82 prester john

We will enforce the laws of the UK and anyone who trespasses onto the property of and/or threatens or hurts anyone associated with the magazines in questions will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law

That is the exact minimum of what every government should say, at day after day of consecutive press conferences. One unambiguous message, and a show of protective force around the newspaper offices.

This is not a drill. There are countries that are just blowing it, big-time. What *will* these people fight for? Anything? Anything at all?

These newspapers may as well fold up shop now.

Do they think these cowardly moves will appease the headchoppers?

Next, they'll insist upon editorial control, at which point freedom of the press becomes a mere slogan.

Maybe we should all walk around our towns this weekend taping up these cartoons.

100 religion of bacon

Possibly. But Muslims despise homosexuals so deeply that I can't believe they will be able to keep their mouths shut, especially now that they're feeling their oats. Or hummus, I guess.

---

Speaking of guns, the wife and I have begun to seriously discuss getting one or two. Never thought I'd live to see the day I would feel the need for that sort of lethality, here in the US. Strange days are upon us.

Muslims have succeeded in exploiting two of the current generation's most misguided concepts:

1. Hate crime laws

2. Sacred "diversity"

Through "hate crime" laws, we have put specific interest groups above the laws for everyone else. Groups can claim to be the victims of a "hate crime" even where no real crime (by ordinary standards) was committed.

And by promoting "diversity" and "multiculturalism" we have moved beyond being a melting pot that welcomes people of all races and creeds fleeing oppression. We have allowed specific groups and their friends to put them on a pedestal.

We always thought the greatest threat to free speech was overbearing government. And that was true for a long time.

But now the greatest threat to free speech is intimidation by groups that threaten violence any time they are offended. And they are easily offended.

Thank God for the Second Amendment! And to think I used to be anti-gun.

Me too. I'm going to a gun show tomorrow to take my final step away from my former liberal self.

My son is quite thrilled at the prospect of going to shotgun class. My LLL ex will have a fit when he hears about that.

Dubs-

I'll drive.

What time ya wanna get goin?

:D

#18 beagle
It took me a long time because I actually looked at all of them. But I'm finally back.
I love the last one. While the Liberal cartoonist is sitting there trying to figure out why the Islamists are the way they are one sneaks up behind him and beheads him.
Classic

Twin Cities collage pulls cartoon

Karen Murdock, a part-time geography and earth science instructor who posted the cartoons -- surrounded by news articles about the topic and blank "comment" sheets -- said she simply wanted to spark discussion by allowing others to see the cartoons first-hand.

This young Lady has more balls then the MN MSM.

#90 Dead Sea Squirrel

It will be interesting to see what happens when the ROPers start trying to shut up the gays.

The talk on DU will go something like this:

Man, some evangalical Christian Fascists were dressed up like Muslims, trying to beat the crap out of us...

Ronin-

If we go by Little Islamabad we might want cover of night.

Dubs-

Well, let me know...

I think that the idea is fantastic.

Think we would make the news?

Today they woke up and realized a freedom they've been taking for granted is lost. Now they can start the search for the date of its loss.
They must be feeling brilliant about now.

buy the mohammed bomber tshirt:
(from drudge)

[Link: www.prweb.com...]

112 Bad Penny

Good for you!

good choices are Mossberg 500, Remington 870

If you are a little intimidated by 12 gauge you might want to start with a 20 gauge. Just as much fun, but with less kick.

once agian good for you. you will really enjoy the fun of becoming proficient wiht your weapons

There is still a step to the loss of free speach that has not been taken yet.
Once that step is taken, I fully expect the gloves to come off of the Hollywood bunch.

When Islam starts suggesting that they don't like the nekkid women and the drugs in our movies, and it is "offending" them, the LLL's heads will explode.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the ROPers start trying to shut up the gays.

(Some) gay activists and (most) jihadis have some things in common:

Disgust for womens' bodies
Mother issues
The compulsion to drape women with fabric
Attraction to nubile boys
The want of unending, anonymous sex in heaven or bath house
Drama queens
Irrational anger
The need to "makeover the world"

116 Addendum:

And they're really prepared, because they had those Arabic accents down pat...

Looks like human progress is deciding to take steps backwards. Shame! I'm not moving backwards with the cowards.

#115 I love it:

Dozens of Muslim students at Century College -- a two-year community college -- protested to administrators this week about a display of the infamous caricatures...

Oh, now the cartoons are infamous. You mean like the attack on Pearl Harbor?

"I don't think it's [a college's] job to make people comfortable," said Murdock, saying there is rather a duty to challenge students, even if at times it offends people.

Sorry Murdock, that's only true if you're offending Christians.

Administrators hope that a forum being arranged by many Muslim students and faculty members next week in light of the postings will help quell any hard feelings on campus.

Isn't that just sweet?

The forum is meant to increase understanding of Muslim culture, said Mike Bruner, vice president of student affairs. "When students come to me who are hurt, it signals to me we're off course somewhere," he said.

Unless of course it is Christians or conservatives who might be offended, then they can just go to hell.

#88 RW in San Diego

Abu Ghraib, Abu Ghraib--our Cowardly Media lions couldn't STOP printing those naughty bits they knew would cost American and coalition lives.

CNN and WaPo and NYT enjoyed siccing violent islamos on OTHER folks alright.

#100 religion of bacon

Have any gay groups actually spoken out against the Religion of Seething and Goat Sodomizing?

I don't know about groups, but HERE is Mona Charen discussing Bruce Bawer's "While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from Within". Bruce is gay.

#110 Dead Sea Squirrel

Speaking of guns, the wife and I have begun to seriously discuss getting one or two. Never thought I'd live to see the day I would feel the need for that sort of lethality, here in the US.

I know how you feel. The police can't protect you, just pick up the pieces after...

#122 Village Idiot's Apprentice

50,000 quatloos says you're wrong.

#92 Solomon X

Begum, who says the uniform options were not modest enough, arrived in court Wednesday wearing a black hijab and dark gray jilbab. "The nature of religion is that it is intensely personal," Booth told the court. "The school is presuming to tell my client what her religious views require."

Is it all about being modest or requirements of her religion for Begum?

But from another story on this quoted here but unfortuneatly, not linked, it was only about not dressing the same as non-Muslims to her.

Mr McManus said that, to try to accommodate all faiths, the school had adopted the shalwar kameez, a sleeveless, smock-like dress worn with tapered trousers and a sweater or shirt to cover the arms. This was worn by Hindus and Sikhs as well as Muslims. A headscarf could also be worn by Muslim girls. "An important attraction for the school was that the kameez was worn by different faith groups and it hoped that would minimise the differences between them," Mr McManus said.
"Unfortunately, the reason for its appeal to the school is the same as one of the objections raised by Miss Begum's advisers, in that it is a dress worn by non-believers and not suitable for that reason."

It wasn't about modesty. She just needed to dress differently from non-believers.

Senior police officers at Scotland Yard warned the magazine its staff could not be guaranteed protection . . .

Am I the only one here who, when they read this, thought to themselves "so what"?

I am glad I live in a country where I don't HAVE to rely on the police to protect me. Thank God I can protect myself and I can protect my family. Thank God that my neighbors, my friends, my relatives are all there working to protect me and mine as well.

Sheesh, if we had no choice but to rely on the police, we'd all be in a world of hurt. Folks, never, never, never let them take your guns away.

#71 Dianna

Don't forget, in Britain, you're not allowed to own a gun.

Without even their police armed, I just don't see how these guys intend on protecting themselves. Their armed response units, a small percentage of the Met, is no where near up to the threat. It's as if they live in some kind dream world over there. IIRC, a police constable was shot and killed just a few months ago over there and they still think it's a lousy idea to arm their police. Their main thinking is that armed police encourages the criminals to go armed. How can you possibly argue with logic like that?

As to their average citizen owning guns, no worries, the police are there to protect them. Oops.

129 Earth2moonbat

Can I get some of that action?

I'm looking thru google and yahoo, with reports on the Grammy's and the Olympics and the other tidbits of the day, and I'm reminded of a HBO movie from the late 90s, when 2 anchors just get news of something major, one anchor gets it, while the other continues like nothing happened:

Anchor 1: Meanwhile, in other news...
Anchor 2: What the fuck are you talking about? There is no fucking "other news"?
Anchor 1: Sorry about that outburst folks. In other news...
Anchor 2: Damnit, there is no fucking other news right now, asshole.

NOTE TO MSM: THERE IS NO FUCKING OTHER NEWS RIGHT NOW.

Related - THE PC JIHAD IS WINNING TOO

For the first time, eight women carried the Olympic flag: Italian actress Sophia Loren, Chilean writer Isabel Allende, American actress Susan Sarandon, Nobel Peace-prize winner Wangari Maathai of Kenya, and three Olympic medal winners. They were Nawal El Moutawakel of Morocco, Manuela Di Centa of Italy, and Maria Mutola of Mozambique. The eighth was Cambodian human rights activist Somaly Mam.

Italy may have provided troops for Iraq, but they are sending a clear message with that entourage.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

#100 religion of bacon
‘Have any gay groups actually spoken out against the Religion of Seething and Goat Sodomizing?’

Yes. Actually there are quite a few of us.
We recognize that the ROP would kill us in an instant, if they could.
I’ve noticed more and more ‘gay conservatives’ in my travels.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out who to support in this battle for civilization. (hint: it’s not the left)

See: [Link: gaypatriot.net...]

Liberals are Digitally Brownshirting themselves.

Where's Al Gore when we need him to denounce the real brown shirt wearers.

@108 JammieWearingFool

I expect before it's over with, someone will be killed, mebbe one of the editors.
That will be something to watch the repercussions of.

#46 WriterMom

VDH is da man!

And welcome to the 8th Century, everybody.

And if the police refuse to protect law-abiding citizens, the citizens are going to have to protect themselves.

A few thoughts on the Kartoon Kontroversy:

1. Is it being used to whomp up support for Iran, and give the Islamofacists an excuse for using nukes? ("They're blaspheming our beloved prophet! Let's just wipe them out!")

Of course it could also be a ploy to divert attention from Hamas, and what the Iranians are actually up to with said nukes. . .

2. I'm beginning to wonder if many people who've backed away from printing the cartoons, or, like Bill Handel, have been forced into apologizing for offending Islamic sensitivities are being physically threatened, and/or blackmailed? Are they getting phone calls describing where their child goes to school, or saying "I've got those photographs of you in Vegas, with the goat and the transvestite hookers!"

3. Or are they bribing them with oil money, or other---ahem---"goodies"?

The Old Man of the Mountain, chief of the Assassins, bribed his followers into sacrificing themselves by letting them into his pleasure garden (telling them it was Paradise)giving them whores and drugs, and telling them they could re-enter "Paradise" if they just obeyed his orders.

Oil money can buy a lot, and the Iranian mullahs are, reportedly, involved in the drug trade and sex slavery up to their collective yin-yangs. (And, if they are doing the Old Man of the Mountian thing, that could also provide great material for blackmail, if somebody tries to back out of a deal; "We've got those pictures of you in Tehran, with the goat, the transvestite hookers and Hanan Ashwari in her dominatrix outfit. . .")

The Russian Communists, after all, were able to manipulate that eminent journalist, Walter Duranty by simultaneously threatening blackmail, while catering to his---ahem---unorthodox social life. And Islamic leaders, such as Arafat, certainly picked up a few things from the Russians.

Is there any real journalist, brave and true of heart, who wants to check into this?

#93 Jheka

They are the unknown victims of the cartoon wars. Dying from a massive cerebral hemorrhage brought on by cognitive dissonance.

I think the cartoon jihad will help separate the "bike-path Democrats" from the hard-core America-hating lunatic left. The former are only concerned with that which impacts their comfortable lives directly--and now, suddenly, they'll be picking up their hometown papers and reading that the editors fear being killed. Even the most parochial will realize that this matters to them. They may not become brave enough to do anything about it, but they will at least be less likely to block someone else from doing something about it.

Keep

Remington 870

I love my Wingmaster...

20 gauge with a modified choke

Nothin better for those pheasant trips to South Dakota!

Oh Jeez.

ANOTHER frickin' ex CIA guy joins the Bush lied people died crowd

His schtick now is the Administration "subtly" tried to influence intel officers to support the case for war.

Got it- there wasnt any direct pressure or coercion- only "subtle".

And these guys are supposed to be smart.

#136 BlueChip

We recognize that the ROP would kill us in an instant, if they could.

The ROP will kill ya. The GOP just wants to lower your taxes. ;-)

Well at least the Western MSM can take on truly dangerous tasks and "speak truth to power."
You know, just literally risking their necks to go after the all powerful dictator Bush, who could disappear them in an instant. That Helen Thomas...there is a brave soul.

And the guts of CNN...breathtaking. From licking Saddam’s ass, to their gutsy stand on the Mohammed cartoons.
And the NYT going all the way back to Walter Duranty and how he stood up to Stalin and his purges.

What the hell is the purpose of the MSM anyway? Utterly worthless tools. They should all just follow some murder of a socialite somewhere. Each station, each newspaper, just pick some suburban murder, in some safe place and follow that.
One thing about all this, it further discredits the MSM, and Islam at the same time.

#123 nuclearTinkerbell
‘(Some) gay activists and (most) jihadis have some things in common:’

Your forgot your sarcasm tag…

Speaking of what passes for Journalism...my boss just received a copy of Harper's magazine. It's the first one I remember seeing. HOLY COW! The articles include:

Improvised, Explosive and Divisive
- Searching in Vain for a Strategy in Iraq

United they Fall
- Why only Bill Clinton can Save the U.N.

I have scanned a few of the articles and I have never read anything so filled with the loathing of human kind and the perpetration of LLL lies about President Bush and his administration from the Iraq war, to global warming, to his stature in the world theater.

How anyone can read this stuff is astounding by itself. That anyone would believe it, is beyond belief.

#143 TMF

I wonder when his book will be out?

@132 Piltdown Man

Know what you mean. Having had a cousin who was with the London Metro police until he retired, he hated having to ever carry a gun. Between that and having duty as a pursuit unit (jaguar) I don't know which he hated the most.
Not even after nearly having his brains beat out with his own nightstick did he come to the conclusion it's better to have the cops armed.
Now he's a criminal advocate for the perps.
Moonbat supreme. Gah!

142 Minnesota Ronin

Mine is an Orignal Ithaca Model 37 Featherlite in 20 gauge. Best damn Quail gun ever.

Also is drop dead beautiful in this little black dress from Choate

Choate machine tools

I've known, ever since the death fatwa on Salmon Rusdhie, that the islamics would kill me if they could. They want to kill anyone who wants to live a free life.

We have to smash them flat, or live in fear.

Let's do it soon.

If the police say they wont protect them in the event they publish photos and are confronted by an angry mob as a result, I can hardly blame them for not doing so.

The police chief or whomever the equivalent rank should be fired for that comment.

I'm sure they would be right there to make arrests in the event newspaper employees sat on the rooftop with rifles to protect themselves and their business in the face of an angry and violent mob calling for their heads. Arrest the newspaper employees that is.

What do you do in liberal land when the state is unable or unwilling to protect you and you are not allowed to protect yourself?

#94 Cattt

“We shouldn’t say ‘Death to Denmark’. Denmark is nothing! We must say, ‘Death to America’. It’s the Americans who set up the likes of the Danes”.

"Great Satan" has a much better ring to it in Farsi then "Great Danes"

143...

I posted on this subject in an earlier thread. The arguement is now so lame that this ex-CIA POS is claiming that the President asked too many questions of the CIA regarding Iraq's WMD. I kid you not!

153 Piltdown Man

A Fatwa on Scooby-Doo?

#145 jehu

What the hell is the purpose of the MSM anyway? Utterly worthless tools. They should all just follow some murder of a socialite somewhere. Each station, each newspaper, just pick some suburban murder, in some safe place and follow that.

Heh! The trouble with that is that every paper would end up with a different outcome (... except the part where its "all Bush's fault" that is!). The story would be vastly different from what other newspapers printed and it wouldn't even resemble what actually happened at all

#144 Silhouette
‘The ROP will kill ya. The GOP just wants to lower your taxes. ;-) ‘

One of the many, many reasons we’re on the right (national security, less gov’t, anti-pc, etc, etc).

I proudly walk down Commercial Street (in p-town, think: Gay Mecca-every gay person must visit once in their life) wearing my “GWB – 2004” baseball cap.

#54 Jheka

Today's DU pearl of wisdom:

"Bushco's" Rovian agents of Mass Distraction planted the cartoons in the Danish press.

Yes, one of those Che-wannabes actually claimed that they were planted - in order to provide a pretext for launching another "racist" war against the peaceful Muslims.

Democratic Underground, the internet home of Invincible Ignorance.

#154 Sane:

I posted on this subject in an earlier thread.

And by posting on it, you were subtly pressuring us into agreeing with you! Stop it, you fascist!

[runs out of room crying]

I will now rant. I am sick of the islamic, Muslim whatever you want to call them assholes. If they want a holy war let's just get it over with. It is going to happen anyway. First round them all up like the Japenese in WW11 then ship them back to the shithole of the middle east. Then if they try terrorisn unleash hell on them. I mean what the hell are our leaders doing cringing from these morons. They wipe there ass with there hand for gods sake. I don't know I think it is going to come down to the people taking care of these idiots the politicians have it to easy living in the Washington bubble.

Iranian burning more embassies...
Embassy firebombed over prophet cartoons

Iranian riot police stand guard as Iranian demonstrators throw molotov cocktails at the French embassy in Tehran, on February 10, 2006.

Let's just abandon and burn all western embassies in Iran and save them the trouble.

#111 ibrodsky 2/10/2006 11:58AM PST

Muslims have succeeded in exploiting two of the current generation's most misguided concepts:

1. Hate crime laws

Brother you are on the money there. We chip away at free speech at our perile.

#122 Village Idiot's Apprentice 2/10/2006 12:06PM PST
There is still a step to the loss of free speach that has not been taken yet.
Once that step is taken, I fully expect the gloves to come off of the Hollywood bunch.

When Islam starts suggesting that they don't like the nekkid women and the drugs in our movies, and it is "offending" them, the LLL's heads will explode.

I wouldn't bet on it...the LLL crowd are masters at reconciling their own cognitive dissonance.

The argument would probably go something like this...

"Free speech isn't unlimited speech...take for example laws that forbid shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre. That law is on the books to keep harm from coming to the general public resulting from irresponsible free speech.

We must also be responsible in limiting our speech to that which will not incite our Muslim friends to violence.

Therefore...Jack Bauer no longer fights Muslim terrorists, but eastern European separatists"

(Separatists won't riot and torch your place of business if they're offended...yet)

Gaza militants set conditions for freeing Egyptian

GAZA, Feb 10 (Reuters) - A previously unknown militant group in Gaza claimed responsibility on Friday for the kidnapping of an Egyptian diplomat and said it would not free him unless all Palestinians in Egyptian prisons were released within 48 hours.

The militants, calling themselves the Free Men Brigades, said in a statement that the kidnapping was "only a first step" and that Egypt should "bear full responsibility for the tragic consequences that may result." The group did not elaborate.

Riiight.

#135 karmic_inquisitor

What entourage? Yes, the whole carrying the torch as an internationalist exhibition is stupid. Are you complaining for the fact that a Moroccan athlete carried it? An athlete partecipating to a sporting event, big friggin' deal.

Saving you keystrokes for something of substance no?

#135 Karmic
Susan Sarandon carried the flag at the Olympics OMG I can't believe she would even want to touch it or be associated with America.
/what an embarrasment

#150 Keep

Nice...

Never been quail hunting. Only pheasant.

LA Times softens the tone of the story. Under AP News in the Times, “Asian Muslims Hold Biggest Rallies Yet”.

Ummm…that brings visions of a fun filled day at Monte Carlo for a Road Rally. Perhaps you can pick up an Italian Pepper & Onion Sandwich as you take in the old roadster exhibit.

/idiots

SaneinMN

The scary thing is, when these ex CIA nincompoops "bravely" come out and tell us Bush "cherry-picked" evidence to support the lead up to war,

They imply that they were selectively choosing evidnece that SUPPORTED Sadaams ongoing WMD and disregarding evidence that didnt.

My thought is: if there was ANY evidence that he DID have WMD, isnt that enough?

No, I guess they should have given Sadaam the benefit of the doubt if a few analysts questioned the WMD intel.

Wikipedia has the cartoons, although the page can not be edited because of vandalism.

However the discussion page is open to "polite" discourse.
Check it out

To all of the new gun owners. Buy a lot of ammunition. (2 or 3 thousand rounds for each weapon) And, learn good safety and handling practices, then marksmanship.

A firearm without these other items and skills is just an expensive club

Does anyone have a running count as to how many embassies have suffered arson attacks during the cartoon jihad, to date?

#152 dll2000

I didn't take Scotland Yard's statement as that they wouldn't protect the paper, just that they can't guarantee to be prevent everything.

#160 harley2002

First round them all up like the Japenese in WW11

World War Eleven?

/Trying to figure out what alternate universe I'm in this time...

E2M
Qualtoo's?

Can I go with Best Buy Bucks instead?

Serioulsy, at some point the LLL's are going to have to ask themselves "What rights do I feel so strongly about, that I am willing to risk death to protect?"

My guess is, not too many.

"We have our rights
But, their negotiable"

LLL Bumpersticker

#146 Blue Chip
Your forgot your sarcasm tag…

/sarc

#163 eschew

I agree. At heart, the LLL's loath America and therefore will not become real concerned about attacks on her, until it's too late for them. They think that the radical Islamic element will understand them.

Wow 2:30 p.m. central and no war

Flameless Friday!

Bush bashing Fri. continues for the MSM...revenge for their yellow-bellied comming out of the closet party the cartoon jihadists have forced upon them.

Poll: Bush approval rating "mired" at 40%.

Poll Breakdown of Registered Voters:
50% Democrat
42% Republican

...and they wonder why Republicans continue to win elections despite their polling numbers to the contrary?

Question for the gun experts here.

I just have a Mossberg 12 guage, and am thinking of a good handgun.

I would like something I can practice with, but that would also have stopping power, in case I decide to wear my Mohammed Bomb T-Shirt to a Muslim "rally."

I think 40 mm, maybe a Glock. But I hear some say a 40 mm does not have enough stopping power.

Also open to the idea of a wheel gun since they never (as far as I know) jam.

Suggestions? Also place to buy. I am in San Diego area.

#171 Ackomanyuki:

(2 or 3 thousand rounds for each weapon)

Say WHAT?! I keep about 50 shells on hand for my 12-gauge. I think that's plenty for any reasonably forseeable self-defense or civil disorder scenario.

Why are riots being called protests? Oh yeah, terrorist / militant sorta thing.

Violent rioters should be gunned down, end of story.

#178 keepandbear

/Flame on!
You bastard!
/Flame off!

Wouldn't want to see you dissapointed!

178 keepandbear

Wow 2:30 p.m. central and no war

No, but there's a spitwad fight in progress on the Krauthammer thread.

And now, to change subject:

A moment of Zen

Is Blue Chip gay?

Because, while not gay myself (not that there is anything wrong with that), when I would visit a couple of friends going to school in Boston, who had GLB friends, we'd go to a gay bar.

A bar, not too far from Fenway Park, called "The 1270", was pretty liberal about checking ID, and had a floor where they played good early 80s music (Siouxsie, Human Sexual Response, you know, the good stuff).

On the same block was a bar, I'm pretty sure also for gay people, called "The Ramrod". Scary looking.

Did I mention I plant to drop about 15 cm of snow on BWI, 20 cm on PHL, and 25 to 30 cm, with isolated amounts to 40 cm, on NYC and BOS?

I don't know why this brings up new memory, because BOS and gay bars not involved, just bars.

The revolving bar at a place called "ABC Country" in Orlando. ABC was like a chain.

And a movie theater near NTC Orlando, that had comfy seats, and you could get snacks and beer while watching the movie.

What was the drinking age in Florida in 1983? Because I wasn't 21 yet, and never seemed to have a problem drinking. Especially on the OBT.

#160 harley2002

Our GOVERNING party and leader is fighting the islamofascists as much as our country lets him.

The other party (yes, the self-styled "intelligentsia") is making fun of those of us who think fighting islamofascists is job number one.

Democrats TODAY whine, cry & pout Republicans and President Bush use 9/11 and terrorists threats to win elections.

Will those of you who voted for these clowns give them a swift kick in the pants and tell them to stop cowering before islamofascist cartoons?

#89 Mama Winger

Thank God for the Second Amendment! And to think I used to be anti-gun.

Don't you know that the right of the people to keep and bear arms is a collective right guaranteed to the state and not to you as an individual American.

Just like:

the right of the people peaceably to assemble

or

right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures

The Constitution's use of the phrase "the people" clearly indicates that the second ammendment is of no use whatsoever and simply taking up space in the Constitution. Similarly, the right to peaceably assemble is not granted to you as an individual American and the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure are rights granted to the State.

Who are we to believe the Constitution when it says "the people." If you don't agree with me, just ask the 9th Circuit.

VIA

Can I go with Best Buy Bucks instead?

Dang, I'm glad you said that. Mine are going to expire soon. I forgot.

184 Earth2moonbat

yeah I went there right after my post and saw that.

#180 jehu:

I just have a Mossberg 12 guage

The group hug continues... something else we have in common.

But I hear some say a 40 mm does not have enough stopping power.

Oh, 40 mm have PLENTY of stopping power. (But I think you mean 40 cal.)

How long will it take till someone from New Hampshire looks at their license plate and say

"Oh that? it's just a slogan"

Jehu

Now granted I am no expert, but I think the whole idea of stopping power is over-rated.

Too many people get caught up in it and buy guns that are too large and they will never be able to handle comfortably and accurately.

Remember, calibur size won't make that big of a difference when you put 3 into the ocular triangle.

#151 Ojoe -

I met an Iranian dissident once on a train from Oakland to LA. It was in the mid 80's.

We got to talking politics and he told me that the US response to the Iranian Hostage Crisis was a disaster for the US. "You should have smashed us!" he told me. I was a bit shocked and was a LLL branded liberal, but he made a point I have never forgotten - turning the other cheek doesn't earn respect in the Middle East.

#188 Piltdown Man

just ask the 9th Circuit Circus.

Fixed that for you.

169 TMF...

These fools know that the CIA (as decribed in the 2002 NIE) believed Saddam had WMD. They also realize that 4 independent reports, including the non-partisan Silberman-Robb Commission report, refutes any notion of intelligence manipulation. So, they continue to water-down their arguements to the point of the inane charge that we read today...The President of the US asked too many damn questions of the CIA regarding Saddam's WMD. What a world!

In other news

The U.S. budget registered a surprisingly big surplus of $20.99 billion in January as strong receipts outweighed spending, a Treasury Department report showed.

Okay I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box but how do we go from having deficits to having surpluses? Can these guys balance my bank account like this?

#177 3 wood 2/10/2006 12:31PM PST
#163 eschew

I agree. At heart, the LLL's loath America and therefore will not become real concerned about attacks on her, until it's too late for them. They think that the radical Islamic element will understand them.

Hear, Hear...

They won't even see an 'attack' coming.

They will think, as they often tell us, that terrorism is just a product of poverty and ignorance brought on by western imperialism and that, with education and a more prosperous life-style, Islamist ideology will not take root and affect them. And so, they will appease those with that ideology 'knowing' that having done so, they will not be harmed.

They also believe that anyone can be reasoned out of a radical position/ideology

...more naivete' for which there is no evidence...

#180 jehu:

I just have a Mossberg 12 guage

Got one myself, the "Persauder" model. Good gun.

Like Ruger for side arms, got on of their 40 cal a while back.

#197 Here's the link
I told ya I wasn't the sharpest pencil in the box.

Speaking of Wikipedia, because I got bored lsitening to Hugh Hewitt toss softballs to the governor of some Upper midwest state, I tuned into Savage.

Senator Feinstein's staff apparently edit Wikipedia (I don't know how Savage knew) to keep all mention of her husband, and his ties to the Peoples Republic of China, off Wikipedia.

#180 jehu:

I am by no stretch of the imagination a gun expert, but were I (allowed in DC) to carry a handgun for self-defense, I think at .40 Glock (Model 23 and/or 27) is an excellent choice. Or, heck, get both--with the advantage that the 27 can take the spare mags for the 23 in a pinch.

120 boiii

Mohammed T-Shirt site - the Drudge Effect

The Mohammed Cartoon T Shirt is in stock!

Due to exceptionally high traffic, our web server is running slow.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Please bookmark this page and try back throughout the day or tomorrow.

#160 harley2002

"First round them all up like the Japenese in WW11
World War Eleven?

/Trying to figure out what alternate universe I'm in this time... "

Hey! According to string theorists there are, in fact, 11 dimensions.

#155 keepandbear

A Fatwa on Scooby-Doo?

right ru rar reepandrear.

Ed Mahmoud ndhsdbsdigbb,

a bar, I'm pretty sure also for gay people, called "The Ramrod"

Ya think so?

Hillary Clinton says Bush is creating a climate of fear.

The Boston Globe, New York Times, CNN, and too many other deserving candidates played dhimmi supreme during this cartoon campaign.

Denmark is creating a climate of fear: Havarti Hellraisers?

Secular political hacks need to readjust their headgear.

#186 Ed M a a Q M B

while not gay myself (not that there is anything wrong with that)

That reminds me of the (PBUH) thing.

Any time someone admits to not bieng gay they almost always follow up with the "not that there is anything wrong with that" bit.

Why not just put (nttiawwt) after the "I'm not gay" disclaimer?

(Yea I see that it looks like nitwit, but the other one looks like poobuh so what the heck!)

#197 Just a Grunt

how do we go from having deficits to having surpluses?

Just remember this: tax cuts raise revenue. Yay, capitalism!

#155 keepandbear

A Fatwa on Scooby-Doo?

Ruckin' Rooslums!

#197 Just_A_Grunt:

Okay I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box but how do we go from having deficits to having surpluses?

This is talking about *current* surplus, as opposed to *accumulated* deficit. Sort of like, if *last month* you earned more than you spent, but you still have a ton of outstanding credit card debt overall.

So it's a good sign, but we've a long ways to go.

Ed Mahmoud (#186),

and had a floor where they played good early 80s music (Siouxsie, Human Sexual Response, you know, the good stuff).

Oh yeah. The good stuff.

Now we get to listen to what some 55 year old Sony executive thinks is "hot".

Hilarious that it's the FRENCH embassy being attacked in Teheran--this after France joined with Russia to try and rule out force against Iran.

(Appeasement doesn't work. Thought France would have learned that already. . .)

#181 Occasional Reader

(2 or 3 thousand rounds for each weapon)

I THINK what Ackomanyuki was saying is that after learning safe firearm handling, a gun is only good if you know how to use it. To learn that, you need to work on marksmanship. No was to do this other than pump a lot of rounds through your gun.

It also sounded to me like this was in reference to a pistol, not a shotgun.

#204 javems

According to string theorists there are, in fact, 11 dimensions.

I'm switching M-embranes.

OR

Egads! I could see myself totting around a 40 mm anti-aircraft gun...nobody would mess with me.

Anyway does the 40 cal (9mm) have stopping power? Maybe it depends on ammunition?

And I love my Mossberg. I an terrible at skeet, but unusually good at trap.

Ed

What was the drinking age in Florida in 1983? Because I wasn't 21 yet, and never seemed to have a problem drinking. Especially on the OBT.

We must have just missed each other.
I was there then for NAVET REINDOC after being out for 2.5 years.

At the time OBT was sorta off limits.
I remember, because the CO came over and gave us clear directions to the place so we could avoid it.

BTW...can you hold up on hammering BWI till after 12:00 tomorrow?
We are taking our Cub Scout pack to visit the USNS Comfort in the morning.

My #204 was intended for #174 BobTheBuilder.

You will have to excuse me, I had just stepped out into another dimenmsion for a sec.

#170 Ringo the Gringo:

did you note the link to zombietime in the discussion?

Cool!

Of course, if you want a wheelgun with lots of stopping power, because you're afraid of getting jumped by, say, jihadist velociraptors, you could always get this.

#191
[in best Homer Simpson voice]
...ummm...40mm...deliciously able pierce armor up to 2 inches thick, and will delictably produce fragments to kill personnel within 5 meters and wound personnel within 15 meters of the point of impact...

180 jehu

9mm is still a very good round

I have a Glock 20 10mm that I absolutely love
but its takes a little while to get used to.

.357 mag is the best round IMHO but most of your choices are in revolvers there although Magnum Research and Coonan make Auto in .357

I like the Ruger P89 in 9mm

Never tried a 40. Its basically a whittled down 10mm and since I already have the 10 never saw the need.

If your looking for a small discrete weapon the Ruger SP101 .357 stainless is a grreat little pistol. Kinda fiesty but a real crowd pleaser (if ya know what I mean)

Beagle

Hillary says Bush is creating a climate of fear

Thats funny, cuz I thought THESE GUYS created the climate of fear?

Nah, must be Bush.

Jheka, weren't we supposed to drag you out to the range to implant the chip in your neck and turn you into a gun nut?

#217 VIA

What was the drinking age in Florida in 1983?

IIRC, 21, with Grandfather Clause to 18 for those who beat the change in law.

OT: Victor Davis Hanson at his best:

What History Says About the Iraq War

#216 jehu

Anyway does the 40 cal (9mm) have stopping power? Maybe it depends on ammunition?

A .40 cal is not 9mm. The .40 is more powerful and is a heavier/faster bullet.

I have a Springfield Armory .40 and Ann has a .45 Glock.

Not in the US, they aren't.

Ah, free speach and capitalism -- what a combo!

#222 k&b:

Magnum Research and Coonan make Auto in .357

Also there's .357 Sig auto, although I don't think it's a magnum round.

#207 Beagle

Hillary Clinton says Bush is creating a climate of fear.

Well, for terrorists, he is.

#193 Minn. Ronin

How ironic. Back during the Moro War the Army's pistols couldn't stop the fanatical Jihadis, who would keep charging even after being hit several times, so a new pistol with better "stopping power" was needed. The new handgun was the Colt .45 (works every time! ;) ). Now we're arguing that stopping power isn't needed against today's crop of ululaters.

Those who forget history...

Jehu, Keep, et. al.

Desert Eagle .50 AE

Stopping power, Smooth action, A Joy to fire!

#227 reaganite:

A .40 cal is not 9mm.

Different bullet and shell but same diameter, correct? Aren't .40, 9mm, .357 and .38 all the same diameter (356/1000th of an inch IIRC)?

#195 reaganite

just ask the 9th Circus.

Hah! But the crazy part is that the 9th has some of the absolute clearest thinkers on the subject of the 2nd Am. as an important American right for all Americans, as a safety valve last ditch right, as a right that bolsters and protects all other rights.

Unfortunately, their voices are only to be found in minority opinions completely drowned out by their LXLXL to the 3rd power brethren.

Does anybody watch the Olympics anymore?

As a child, I remember seeing coverage of the actual sporting events - not just the endless battery of dippy "human interest" stories, loaded with "mood piano", punctuated with blurry, hyper-edited images and re-caps of the sports we didn't see.

I saw an interesting (actually, frightening would be a better description) piece at GOP Bloggers concerning the EU's willingness to sacrifice freedom of expression in order to appease some offended Muslims. In addition, the Muslim world's top 2 main political bodies are seeking "a UN resolution, backed by possible sanctions, to protect religions after the publication in Scandinavia of cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad". Jonathan R. at GOP Bloggers brings up a great point: This is dangerous, and imagine how much more dangerous this will be if it's backed up by a nuclear weapon in the hands of a radical Iran (offend Islam and say goodbye to a major city). The EU's cowardice, along with the cowardice of news outlets around the world, will only embolden radical Muslims, thus ensuring more of this type of violent behavior and even more radical demands.

Hide under the bed! The Barbarians are at the gate!

Perhaps a low even for Bill Clinton?

232 BobTheBuilder

Never had the joy of the 50AE

Did shoot a .44 mag Desert eagle once though that a MP friend had. Very Smooth Very nice.

Now we get to listen to what some 55 year old Sony executive thinks is "hot".

Don't get me started. Audioslave, Beck, Nine Inch Nails, Seether, Godsmack. In terms of contemporary rock, that's pretty much it. The rest of that stuff out there is utter crap.

Been listening to a lot of Johnny Cash lately.

HAPPY, HAPPY! JOY! JOY!

New 18Z NAM back onboard for Blizzard. NYC and Long Island, and SE New England, get the best slam.

If NAM right, only Eastern Cape Cod/Nantucket & Martha's Vineyard have a mix or change to rain.

30 knot winds add to the fun and excitement!

#231 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I'm not saying that stopping power isn't necessary, I'm just saying that some people sacrifice comfort and accuracy for a larger caliber weapon.

I myself have a 9mm Beretta subcompact. It may not having the thud of a 50 cal, but then again, I'm accurate and comfortable with it.

Then again, the teflon coated ++ hollow points for it help.

;)

#156 Ed
“Is Blue Chip gay?”

I’ve been drunk at the ‘1270’ and ‘Ramrod’.

(send lots of snow to Boston for the weekend. It's my excuse for eating too much food and taking naps).

#233 Occasional Reader

Different bullet and shell but same diameter, correct? Aren't .40, 9mm, .357 and .38 all the same diameter (356/1000th of an inch IIRC)?

*pssst* when you have a bullet caliber stated as .357, .38, .40 etc, that is the diameter of the bullet! But nominally, the .38 and .357 are the same size. 9mm is also very close.

The difference between 9mm parabellum and .40 is mostly firing pressures and bullet weight. The .40 is faster.

Just like what I've been percolating for over a week about these peoples in Europe and UK are developing symptoms commonly associated with NBS (no backbone syndrome).

As far as I know, there may be a cure for NBS but scientists are working on it fast!

OR

Believe it or not I have shot that revolver. I lived in Rockville area (Sandy Springs) in Maryland for 6 years. Friend of mine has 3 large safes filled with guns, and one room devoted to loading his own amunition. (If war comes I'm heading back there).

Anyway he lived about 1 mile from the Issac Walton league, and says, "do you want to shoot the most powerful revolver made?"

I say, "sure." We go out there with several guns and he hands me this monster. After only 6 shots, my hand was sore. Very impractical gun, but if you were on the other side and looked into that barrel, it must look like a cave.

reaganite

What is the size equivalent of 9mm, is it about a 38?. I have shot the Glock and Beretta, and I think I liked the Glock better.

Jehu #180

When I saw the Mohammed T-shirt ad I knew I wouldn't have the nerve to wear one, even in my small town. I guess the fear has hit home. Never thought I'd see the day.

My handgun is a Smith & Wesson .38 special, small, compact, travels well. Pretty too.

#230 Silhouette

Well, for terrorists, he is.

And for Democrats.

#233 Occasional Reader

When listed as Point something as in .40 it refers to the caliber in inches therefore a .40 cal is 4 tenths of an inch wide. thats wider than a .357

.357 mag 38 special and 9mm all can use the same bullet but have vastly different ballistics.

#180 Jehu

Purpose ? In dealing with the unexpected, consider what the bow hunters use, for backup self defense. You may not have to take down a grizzly, alaskan Brown, or 400lb wild pig that would rather like to have you for lunch (you're slower than chasing deer). That first shot has to count. So anything under .40 calibre is a waste of effort, climb a tree instead.

Consider the size of you, your hand, your strenghth, experience and ablility to get to a range to get training and proficient if you're not already.

The hand cannon Occaisional Reader references above won't work for you if you're small and aren't lifting weights, the recoil would likely knock you out.

Consider this in .40 cal if you have a small hand.

Get a large bore revolver if the purpose must be no jam security, like backup facing these bad boys. btw non-native species to CA

#244 reaganite:

*pssst* when you have a bullet caliber stated as .357, .38, .40 etc, that is the diameter of the bullet!

Nominally, yes. I know that. But...

the .38 and .357 are the same size

So what I'm saying is, the "nominal" calibers are actually fudging a bit.

From what I can tell by highly scientific tests I've conducted by lining up the shell casings and squinting at them, the four I mentioned above look identical in diameter.

Would you like to meet an anti-idiotarian UK cop?

The Policeman's Blog

The other news story that's causing me some concern is the demand for an explanation as to why Abu Hamza was not prosecuted earlier. My usual explanation for why people aren't prosecuted earlier is, "I've got a lot on at the moment."

And he's got tons of links to other cop blogs

#246 jehu

What is the size equivalent of 9mm, is it about a 38?.

Pretty close to exact same size. When reloading you can use 380 auto bullets in 9mm and the other way around. The 380 auto is also known as the 9mm kurtz (short).

Ed -

HAPPY, HAPPY! JOY! JOY!

Ren and Stimpy fan?

#241 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

HAPPY, HAPPY! JOY! JOY!

No. Not Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy.

As the immigrant community in Colorado says, "This is gonna be sucks bro."

Great, a gun nut thread.

The only thing more boring than listening to people talk about guns is listening to people talk about golf.

Guess I better get back to work.

#250 Havoc

Consider this in .40 cal if you have a small hand.

That's the one I own. They also make an even smaller XD.

#246 jehu:

I have shot the Glock and Beretta, and I think I liked the Glock better.

I like shooting the Beretta more, but in choosing between them for self defense I'd pick the Glock. I like the KISS principle they used in designing the Glock line. If you pull the trigger with a round in the chamber, it fires; if you don't, it won't. Period.

#251 Occasional Reader

the four I mentioned above look identical in diameter.

You wouldn't be able to put a .40 in a 9mm barrel.

#181

Say WHAT?! I keep about 50 shells on hand for my 12-gauge. I think that's plenty for any reasonably forseeable self-defense or civil disorder scenario.

I guess so, if any agressors aren't armed and will shy away from a few warning shots over their heads.

It also might be if you live where you expect the police to protect you indefinately. But, what happens when, during some protracted civil unrest, all of the paid public servants leave their posts to protect their own families.

The thousands I recommend are for the unknown length of time it may take society to right itself if it is completely upset, and were non commisioned citizens volunteer to defend their communities, instead of hiring fulltime police to do it for them.

Before you call me a paranoid alarmists, think about what your vision of the future was before September 11, 2001.

#68 Matticus Finch 2/10/2006 11:40AM PST

It is not the neocons, the hawks, the conservatives who should be fighting this battle, it is the liberals.

This is a muslim attack directly on the freedom they value the most (free speech).

Your mistake is believing that modern liberals aka the left cares one whit about freedom. They don't. They are all about power, self-indulgence, and self-gratification, particularly in the form of a false sense of moral superiority. Period.

#259 reaganite

You wouldn't be able to put a .40 in a 9mm barrel.

That sounds like a bet to me.

Where's my hammer?

/what?

#259 reaganite:

You wouldn't be able to put a .40 in a 9mm barrel.

Who are you gonna believe, yourself or my squinting, lying eyes?

Ok all, thanks for gun advice. I think I will land somewhere between a 9mm, up to 45 Cal in an automatic, and I just have to get a wheel gun, probably .357 Magnum. Something about the roll and click of a revolver.

251 Occasional Reader

Thats

From what I can tell by highly scientific tests I've conducted by lining up the shell casings and squinting at them, the four I mentioned above look identical in diameter.

thats the problem with the ole inches calibers

.40 cal is 10mm
.357 38 are 9mm

.38 is actually .357 caliber the original rounds went into converted .38 cap and ball revolvers it was a lot easier to keep the cylinders and put new barrels on the old pistols. Therefore the casing had to fit in the cylinders. This brought the caliber of the bullet that could be used down to .357

#236 Schlagerman

the Muslim world's top 2 main political bodies are seeking "a UN resolution, backed by possible sanctions, to protect religions

The day anything from the U.N. trumps our Constitution is the day we ship those ineffective swine right out of our country.

/it's a dream, but a pleasant one.

#244 reaganite

You seem to know a good deal about firearms, so I was wondering if you could give me a recommendation. I recently bought my first house and want to get a handgun for personal protection. I'd like to stay away from a revolver and I don't have a small fortune to spend. I was looking for something in the $400-500 range. Any suggestions?

#260 Ackomanyuki

The thousands I recommend are for the unknown length of time it may take society to right itself if it is completely upset, and were non commisioned citizens volunteer to defend their communities, instead of hiring fulltime police to do it for them.

That's a pretty far fetched assumption that America is going to collapse.

Former US president
Bill Clinton warned of rising anti-Islamic prejudice, comparing it to historic anti-Semitism as he condemned the publishing of cartoons depicting Prophet Mohammed in a Danish newspaper. So now what are we going to do? ... Replace the anti-Semitic prejudice with anti-Islamic prejudice?" he said at an economic conference in the Qatari capital of Doha.

Lets not replace the anti-Semitic,
When you think of all the peoples that are oppressed by the damn jooos.
And we know they were behind the World Trade Center bombing. The Jooos have killed millions because of their religious beliefs.

My head is starting to spin.

/Clinton bend over and reach around with both hands and pull your freaking head out of your dumb ass.

You wouldn't be able to put a .40 in a 9mm barrel.

And you for damn sure don't want to put a 9mm in a .40 weapon either. It just might stay put long enough to cause you to use some very potent language

LOL

#262 Silhouette

Where's my hammer?

Let's see you do it twice!

Ed confirms a ‘wicked pissa’ snowstorm is coming my way.

Off to get supplies (beer, pork chops, videos, pretzels).

Enjoy the weekend…

Semi-impressive storms approaching Houston.

No warnings.

#263 Occasional Reader