I'm just speechless - someone please explain this to me.

It is all taqiyya
this is what Europe offered Irate and they were turned down
we know we'll be turned down...
what the strategery is behind it, I have not a frikkin clue.

Nah Charles you're not asleep. You just don't understand diplomatic strategery.

Sorry Charles, but you're wide awake.

Babba! Great minds and all!

;~P

Must be a typo, it should read: US to nuke Iran.

We give them the razor (5 blade special with battery), we offer our own throat (marked with a big X) and then we offer the muscle to cut it so they don't have to.
Sucks!

How soon will Rome be in range of the Iranian missles?

I wouldn't sell the Iranians my old lawnmower... hope you know what you're doing W.

#7 ringo the gringo

Good point. I notice the article was sketchy on detailing the methods of delivery.

The only possible upside is that the White House hopes that when Iran turns this down they can say "Hey, we tried everything to get them to prove all they want is peaceful use of nuclear energy." Then the Europeans and Chinese and Russians and Democrats will see that the USA is trying to keep hell-bent mullahs from getting nukes and blowing up our cities. Yeah, that's the ticket!

the technology we provide will either be a demonstration of nuclear power in the form of nuclear fireworks, or WRONG info so they can blow themselves up and save us the trouble

Am I reading the article right? Does it really say: "according to the diplomats, who were familiar with the proposals and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because they were disclosing confidential details of the offer." I wonder how much the AP pays these "diplomats" for there inside information. Isn't this illegal? Is the AP admitting to a crime?

John Kerry? Even Kerry wouldn't do something this bone-headed.

This can mean only one thing - Bush has become demonically possessed by Jimmy Carter!

why the f don't we give our electric companies the right to build a few Nuke Power Plants and reduce our foreign oil dependence?

Build More Nuke Plants in the US!

Why do the great-minded strategists think Iran will turn it down? They could just as readily accept the offer and then do whatever the Mahdi's predecessor wants.

Our government is brain dead... turn off the machine.

For now, we can only wait and see.

Only the future will tell if We The People have to save America from the politicians and the ignoramuses of the universities and of the media.

Hey folks: Think about the agenda of those who write the headlines. The headline is supposed to make you dispair and give up on Bush.

The package presented to Iran includes the carrot of light water reactor technology ON CONDITION the Iranians give up their heavy water reactor, give up all enrichment & reprocessing work, and open up to full intrusive inpections. The Iranians already refused similar offers in the past. They will refuse this offer too.

The headline is a deliberate distortion.

This story is, um, a little short on the details.

what we do need?
Dead Mulllahs.
Dead clerics.
Dead dinnerjacket

and a FREE IRAN.

the rest is bullshit.

BOY: On a hot summer night would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses? GIRL: Will he offer me his mouth? BOY: Yes GIRL: Will he offer me his teeth? BOY: Yes GIRL: Will he offer me his jaws? BOY: Yes GIRL: Will he offer me his hunger? BOY: Yes GIRL: Again, will he offer me his hunger? BOY: Yes! GIRL: And will he starve without me? BOY: Yes! GIRL: And does he love me? BOY: Yes GIRL: Yes BOY: On a hot summer night would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses? GIRL: Yes BOY: I bet you to say that to all the boys.

Complete (and predictable) distortion of the story by the AP.

#22 BabbaZee

You have good taste!

Perhaps somewhere in the offer is the promise to make them a nuclear test site?

#15 friarstale, isn't that amazing. The US won't offer the same thing to its states.

8 "But you, O Israel, my servant,
Jacob, whom I have chosen,
you descendants of Abraham my friend,

9 I took you from the ends of the earth,
from its farthest corners I called you.
I said, 'You are my servant';
I have chosen you and have not rejected you.

10 So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

11 "All who rage against you
will surely be ashamed and disgraced;
those who oppose you
will be as nothing and perish.

12 Though you search for your enemies,
you will not find them.
Those who wage war against you
will be as nothing at all.

13 For I am the LORD, your God,
who takes hold of your right hand
and says to you, Do not fear;
I will help you.

14 Do not be afraid, O worm Jacob,
O little Israel,
for I myself will help you," declares the LORD,
your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

( Do not gloat Islam...The fight has only Started! )

#18 Poitiers-Lepanto

For now, we can only wait and see.

I'm waiting and wishing and hoping for this to be shown as Texas Taqiyya.

It's all I got right now.

he is a little, little man:
[Link: mypetjawa.mu.nu...]

elsewhere

Iranian chief nuclear negotiator Ali Larijani described the package as positive but containing ambiguities

That wily, diplomatic Bush administration...

#16 Roger

Why do the great-minded strategists think Iran will turn it down? They could just as readily accept the offer and then do whatever the Mahdi's predecessor wants.

The offer includes the following mandatory conditions:
1. Iran must give up heavy water reactors.
2. Iran must give up uranium enrichment.
3. Iran must give up uranium reprocessing.
4. Iran must allow full intrusive inspections.

The mullahs have swarn to refuse all of those conditions before.

Maybe it has to do with today being 6-6-06, you know...the USA being the "Great Satan" and all.

Torchy, thank you :~D

I think Northpaw is correct. The Iranians insist they just want nuclear power for energy. We offer the energy technology so they don't have an excuse to keep enriching uranium. Of course they will turn down the offer, thus demonstrating (at least to sane people) that they have weapons as their goal. Next step will be sanctions. We're already reading stuff on the web about individual Iranians sending over $200 BILLION out of the country and into European banks so it isn't affected by the financial sanctions to come. The ball is rolling.

36
correct

#12 genghis was a wuss (great nic!): that's what I was thinking. Note to Ahmadinnerjacket: if it comes in a box marked "Acme," be vewwy careful!

Optimist View: The US offers it knowing full well that Iran will not reciprocate with the "safeguards" required. At that point, Bush & Rice can turn to the Euros and say - "look, we even offered them a damn reactor. If this doesn't prove that they are developing nuclear weapons to your satisfaction, nothing will. The bombing begins at noon tomorrow."

I mean, we just built a reactor for North Korea, so it is not like we'll learn from that disaster.

Translation: Hows about i give you some of my lunch money as an incentive to not take all of it?

#36 scott in east bay

The ball is rolling.

Yes it is.

#33 journeyscarab

Was going to say. Eleven hours in (by Indiana time, at least) it's already looking like a bad day.

#16 Roger:

"They could just as readily accept the offer and then do whatever the Mahdi's predecessor wants."

(for some reason "quote" function isn't working for me at the moment)

If the package really does include full, intrusive, *immediate* inspections, then the mullahs will not be able to take it.

Don't get me wrong, I am not happy to see this, but am waiting to see where it goes.

#35 American Infidel

To use your chess metaphor, the US has offered a pawn in a gambit. The Iranian's will fall for it.

Bush is doing the same thing we blasted Clinton for regarding tech to North Korea. Man, after Bush's cynical "marriage-ban" rhetoric (I've never felt so baldly manipulated by a political tactic as this week), I am convinced we were all duped.

OT, but speaking of John F-ing Kerry:

Chelsea High grad aided in fight to stay in USA

“It breaks your heart to think the government would be breaking up this family,” Sen. John F. Kerry said yesterday, noting that Rodas would be sent home without his parents and 4-year-old brother. “Mario is an honor student who has a bright future ahead of him.

And sometimes a Democrat will surprise you:

“(Rodas) has to understand that as gracious as this country is, what made it successful is the social compact we all made to obey the laws,” said state Rep. Marie Parente (D-Milford). “This is a young man that we educated here who can go back to his country and be a great leader.”

She's been very outspoken against illegal immigration here in MA.

It makes sense to me, sort of... Hey, we offered Iran the keys, and they still told us to pound sand.

It's the kind of thing that will come up again if this ever makes its way to the Security Council.

Unfortunately, then comes the strongly worded letter and a nuclear Iran...

#39 Canadastani

I mean, we just built a reactor for North Korea, so it is not like we'll learn from that disaster.

or did we? The Korean deal did not include outside enrichment & reprocessing requirements and did not include mandatory full intrusive inspections.

#36 scott:

The ball is rolling.

I hope you're right, but I'm sure having trouble seeing it. Even if we do get to the sanctions phase, how likely will that be to work? The mullahs will gladly forgo traveling to the World Cup if they can get nukes. The only way sanctions would really work would be if they are tight enough to throttle the Iranian economy, and cause the collapse of the mullahcracy (which is the only long-term solution to this problem). But long before that, we'll have cries of "sanctions are killing Iranian children", etc.

They can accept for all the world to see, but behind the scenes throw up a whole bunch of counter conditions. The MSM will then proclaim loudly the US is the problem; not Iran.

/There are no yellow cakes in Niger.

"..it is peace in our time..."

#36 scott in east bay:

Totally agree. However, while the ball may be rolling, this ball rolls very slowly. It's basically impossible to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt to the international community, all of whom will want to engage in a 10-year sanction song and dance ritual with Iran before they come to the same conclusion that you and I already have.

If Iran were smart, they'd accept this offer without the slightest intention of honoring any of its demands. But their minds are nowhere near that shrewd or calculating.

#26 American Infidel

Yes, we do have to save America from the subversive scum, but we don't yet know about the guys playing "conservative" or anyway "right wing": sometimes the info is shocking, sometimes it could be a complex game.

Honestly, we don't yet know.

You too, you are compelled to say "they will not disarm Iran" using the future tense, you don't know that as a fact.

We will see.

Of course when and if we will have facts, we could be in a sea of troubles, but I have a deep faith in the American People.
And I do think, like 150,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000% sure, that the Infinite Being Who Is will help Freedom and Justice. This we KNOW.

All we need to do is hit them with some EMP. Hilarity ensues.

I'd be astonished if Iran turned this down, honestly.
They know Bush can't possibly be serious about this, and it would buy them more time to pull a North Korea.

AI
the Europeans already made a very similar offer
and were already turned down
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
Remeber?
"We are not 4 years old we dont go for nuts and chcalates?"
last month.
This is the same thing over again.

#19 Kenneth

The Iranians already refused similar offers in the past. They will refuse this offer too.

What makes you think the Iranians are so stupid?

Like the North Koreans they are crazy like foxes. Every single day that passes for "negotiations" is a day Iran gets closer to assembling its nuclear arsenal.

It worked for North Korea. It worked for India. It worked for Pakistan.

Ummm, just thinking, "radio-medicals" would be "nuclear tech" yes?

Other than that, I seem to recall "safe" reactors that make (comparitively)little waste, don't melt down, and are NOT 'breeders' of a sort to produce bomb-grade fissionables... "Pebble beds", perhaps? Maybe I'm misremembering...
In any event, lets hope it's "Safe" tech.

Or that it leaks, BADLY.
Either way.

#16 Roger 6/6/2006 09:05AM PDT
Why do the great-minded strategists think Iran will turn it down? They could just as readily accept the offer and then do whatever the Mahdi's predecessor wants.

IIRC this is about what happened with North Korea isn't it?

Then NK kicked out the inspectors and resumed enrichment and the development of weapons using the technology they'd been given by the U.S.

And now we're worried about proliferation to terrorist groups...

Why not...marines died with unloaded guns..nothing...We never answer Iran with anything but more gifts...sure...cause Islam never lies...never kills...think I'll go have a puke.

Now what in the world could the EU and the U.S. EVER agree on ?

Likely a rehash of an old threadbare proposal of converting all designs to "Pebble Bed Reactors" and providing for and Collecting and disposing of all fuel for Iranian Pebble bed reactors, at the West's expense of course, (Well er ... um uh, it's cheaper than conducting a war, yeah that's it, that's how we'll sell it to the taxpayers)

(Not safe from Proliferation though --- just saf(ER))

Thus eliminating the Iranian Fuel cycle, depriving for the short-run, Iran of lower-cost production of weapons by eliminating the actual production of Iranian produced enriched U-235 and reprocessable spent fuel for the recovery of the plutonium.

Expect Iran to continue to squeeze for more concession while they continue to run their centrifuge cascades. Once they have amassed enough for 20 or 30 weapons, and maximum "tribute" has been extracted by the new barbary pirates from their dis-united European dhimmi's

#49 Kenneth

Right on track - that is my optimist voice. This deal with the Iranians looks better than the one "negotiated" by Jimmah Carter and accepted by Bill Clinton.

I think the details of the deal are moot- the Iranians will turn it down and it will give Bush & Rice the diplomatic figleaf needed to take things to the next stage (just sanctions, at this point).

#55 AI:

"Instrusive inspections" are all fine and dandy if you happen to know all of the places to be inspected...

I'm not saying that inspections would be effective; I'm saying the mullahs would probably not agree to them. It would mean too much of a loss of face. Hopefully.

regardless of what happens next, mullahs and other islamic terrorist can and will claim that they brought America to its knees.

BTW
If I were Czarina of the known Universe I wouldnt play this bullshit myself, but the fact is we live in a PC corrupted world where we use diplomacy and "protocol" and go through the "proper channels" blablabla to infinity before taking decisive martial action.
The administration feels it must set the stage in order to "legitimitize" the action they must take.

Hey Ahmamadmandinnerjacket

You take the highly enriched Uranium hemispheres and put them together,then stick them in your pocket.

Make sure there are plenty of witnesses.

Enjoy.

60 Cornholio

It worked for North Korea. It worked for India. It worked for Pakistan.

The difference from the NoKo deal: Bush & Rice are not Clinton and Carter, & the conditions are tougher.

As for India & Pakistan: nobody tried to stop them, there were no negotiations or diplomatic pressure on them.

I'm sure any offer we make short of our launch codes will be rejected. Then we get the ball rolling on the destruction of Iran.

First, we send out the sternly written letter which they ignore. This is followed by 17 UN Security Council resolutions condemning Iran. Iran gets to play hide and seek for a dozen years and then if we act against them, the world will condemn us for acting too hastily when another decade of diplomacy would surely have worked.

The infidel crusaders and zionist mischief makers can play taqiyya too...

#70, AI. Read your last sentence. It summarizes the level of intellect that you have applied to this topic.

How India & Pakistan got the bomb... would it surprise you to learn they acquired the technology from China, France, Germany, USA and...Canada?

--1969: France agrees to help India develop breeder reactors.

--1974: India tests a device of up to 15 kilotons and calls the test a ``peaceful nuclear explosion.'' Canada suspends nuclear cooperation. The United States allows continued supply of nuclear fuel, but later cuts it off.

--1976: Soviet Union assumes role of India's main supplier of heavy water. Canada formally halts nuclear cooperation.

Whatever the "devil in the details" of this mystery proposal -- it may ultimately fail when it has to be approved by the Senate for payment.

One of the key elements of the biggest selling War strategy game in Japan, Nobunaga's Ambition was managing the peasant class and the home estate to extract maximum wealth out of them --

-- without sparking revolts which diverted resources to putting it down.

Compared to running a war, building the Iranians a couple of pebble bed reactors and providing free fuel and free spent fuel disposal would probably be cheap. (A few billion here and a few billion there and pretty soon you're talking about some real money -- the late Sen. Everett Dirkson)

But really --- do the Iranians really "Need" nuke power for economic purposes or energy security -- NOT.

5. The world powers are moving enexorbly towards fulfilling prophecy and that is why this action seems confounding to all except to those who know why these things must transpire.

Looks at 5...smiles

BBC is happy about these developments. That should make everyone worry:

US adopts 'soft power' with Iran
By Roger Hardy
Middle East analyst, BBC News

In a significant shift of policy, the United States is offering to join Europe in talks with Iran on its nuclear programme, if Tehran suspends enrichment of uranium.

One way to understand the shift is to compare its handling of Iran in President Bush's second term with its approach to Iraq in his first.

Then it alienated allies and its resort to the United Nations was half-hearted.

There was a widespread feeling Washington was bent on war, regardless of the extent of international opposition.

Now the Americans are bogged down in Iraq and most experts think that, far from helping defeat al-Qaeda and Islamic extremism, the war has served to fuel the "global jihad".

This has led to a change of approach. ...

More here:[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Well, that's it...

I have lost all confidence in our Government to solve even the smallest of problems.

Appeasement is now a policy...
Apathy is now the norm...

pathetic...simply pathetic.

Let's see. We need a foreign policy. Anybody got any ideas? No? Well then John Flipfloppin' Kerry said something about giving nuclear fuel to the mullahs a couple of years ago. Let's give it a try. Kerry won't notice and politicize it now would he?

the only positive I can see in this is the U.S. can now monitor (maybe) the use of the 'technology' we are giving Iran...and it 'buys' the world and region some time to undermine the Iranian govt.

not many positives I can think of right now...

it sure makes us look very weak and very foolish...and makes Iran look as if they have won.

Definition of insanity:

Doing the same thing and expecting different results.
...

Does this sound like our dealings with North Korea or what?

A better plan is to increase Iraq's oil production a number of times over. Then assign the military the job of destroying Iran's current government. No politicians involved till it is over.

/Ask Poland how much an accord with France is worth if it isn't written on toilet paper.

Well the NYT is saying that Europeans have offered spare parts for the ageing Boeing aircraft Iran has.

Not to worry - the Mullahs won't take the offer. They are holding their regime together using the nuke issue as a nationalist pretext.

#70 American Infidel

But I have this feeling, that the reason that WE have not been informed as to what the "enhanced incentives" are is because they are so great that the only thing left to give Iran is completed nucular weapons...

Now you are entering orbit around planet Paranoia. Actually, the "scary enhanced incentives" includes a nice shoulder rub from George while Condi belly dances for the mullahs.

The US has troops stationed to the East, North, West & South of Iran, while the USS Enterprise patrols the Gulf of Oman and the Peleliu Expeditionary Strike Group patrols the Persian Gulf. Oh yes, the US is grovelling for sure.

Kenneth --

--1969: France agrees to help India develop breeder reactors.

Really got "Kicked off" with Eurabia's corrupt fearless leader, Mr. BIG, aka began with Charles DeGualle's 1967 pronouncement that henceforward, France would assume a pro-Arab policy and his desire for Fwench leadership of the West since WWII even if it meant forming an alliance with Russia to Neutralize the west in his favor ... which DeGualle was plotting right through D-Day.

Fwance has been a manipulator and enabler of vile regimes throughout.

DeGualle was at the forefront of the enablers.

Iran isn't going to take the deal, but we will be able to say we offered.

48 hour rule.

Mahmoud! Yoohoo, Mahmoud! If you'll quit throwing rocks at the nice, Jewish boy, Mummee will give you some rocks. Now play nice, or you will have to come inside and finish working on your chemistry project.

If the technology offered is the Fast Breeder Reactor it could be much less of a risk.

It's a safer and more sustainable nuclear power, based on the advanced liquid metal reactor (ALMR) design developed in the 1980s by researchers at Argonne National Laboratory.

I live about five miles from Argon and I still don't glow in the dark.

What's cool about the ALMR is that the breeder makes more fuel than it uses, can use nuclear waste from older reactors as fuel, and the breeder fuel is difficult to impossible to weaponize.

I call bullshit on this one. AP and diplomats as sources?

Not buying it.

We're not this stupid.

Besides, whatever would possibly be offered will be turned down by this psychopath.

Playing the diplodance, unfortunately.

#91 SCDave

Iran isn't going to take the deal, but we will be able to say we offered.

"Honest, Mom, we tried to give our lunch money to the bully, but he still wanted to slit our throats."

Enough.

Remember this Golden Rule of the Media:

You must be conscious what the people who wrote the headline want you to think.

Yes, it is real...my head is hurting after reading this.

I keep saying..blood and steel starting this summer...the fourth world war coming into full bloom...

There are so many things wrong with this deal I don't know where to start.

Sorry, but this deal is bad even if the media is misrepresenting it. We can be pretty sure that Eurabia is offering Iran a very nice gift package. And the Bush admin has decided to go along.

I read that we are offering spare parts for Iran's US-made fighter jets.

We are offering Iran all sorts of nuclear goodies.

What is there to stop Iran from taking the deal--the spare parts and the nuclear technology--and then backing out once the goods have been delivered?

The only way this deal would benefit us is if the Mullahs were overthrown in the meantime. But if anything, this deal will strengthen their regime.

#84 Roger

John Flipfloppin' Kerry said something about giving nuclear fuel to the mullahs a couple of years ago. Let's give it a try. Kerry won't notice and politicize it now would he?

I must be honest and say OUCH.

#98 Kenneth, very much so.

I'm expecting tomorrow's headline to be

Bush goes with Kerry's Brilliant Plan.

86 drool 6/6/2006 09:39AM PDT
Definition of insanity:

Doing the same thing and expecting different results.
...

Does this sound like our dealings with North Korea or what?

Yes, it sure does. I hope it doesn't happen.

UK troops cleared in drowning

Three soldiers have been found not guilty of the manslaughter of an Iraqi boy, at a Colchester court martial.

The trio had all denied the manslaughter of 15-year-old Ahmed Jabber Kareem, a non-swimmer who drowned in a Basra canal in May 2003.

Sgt Carle Selman, 39, then of the Coldstream Guards, and now with the Scots Guards, was cleared.

Guardsman Joseph McCleary, 24, and Guardsman Martin McGing, 22, both of the Irish Guards were also cleared.

The AP headline and story says nothing. Kenneth makes the most sense here.

Hate to say it folks, LGF is beginning to look like a collection of 'knee jerks'.

In a couple of weeks it will be

Bush Botches Kerry's Brilliant Plan.

Maybe we're planning on giving them the wrong nuclear recipe, you know, like when you really don't want your neighbor to have your grandma's prize chocolate cake recipe but you don't want to say no, so you leave some crucial ingredients out before you give it to her, with a smile?

#107 MarcusAurelius, the projected headline in #104 isn't plausible to you? If not, why not?

#107 MarcusAurelius

The phrase "echo chamber" does sometimes come to mind...

The obvious implication here is that the Bush team isn't exercising good judgment.

I just want to know, when did the moonbat looney left suborn LGF?

In earnest, I very much doubt that the technology being offered involves anything more menacing than a purely civilian power generation facility. If so, it’s a smart move. Be interesting to see how this plays out.

#15 friarstale: Be patient, it's coming. The need grows more obvious by the day.

None of this foolishness addresses the fact that China, Russia and N.Korea will probably give them the rest of the pieces to make weapons grade nuclear fuel behind our backs anyway.

You govt officials need to take this clown seriously; do you honestly think that this clown is going to take your goodie grab bag and pass up a chance to meet the hidden imam?

#86 drool

Definition of insanity:

Doing the same thing and expecting different results.
...

Does this sound like our dealings with North Korea or what?

The difference is that we don't expect them to take whatever we offer them.

Consider that there is a significant difference between the two - North Korea runs a more repressive society than Iran (though the Mullahs are working hard to match the North Koreans).

The Mullahs are in a bit of a fix - the domestic discontent with the corruption and failures of the theocracy are real. That is why the Mullahs shut down their "reformists" (who are theocrats too) and have made the nuke issue one of national pride - they are holding the country together by manufacturing a crisis.

If the crisis goes away, then what do they do?

I think the US has come to understand this and is using the situation as a way to bring Europe to its senses. We have gone the multilateral / diplomatic route, and now we are bending over backward to "do a deal".

No deal will be done, because the Mullahs get 2 things out of this - 1) consolidation of power and 2) bigger profits from high oil prices (made high by said crisis).

The Iranians will try to keep this crisis going as long as they can. When they get a nuke, they will shift gears and create a crisis where they get to threaten to use it.

My hope is that the US is clear minded enough to go down this road with Europe but make clear to Europe that a phony deal for "peace in our time" is categorically unacceptable, and I hope we already have the Europeans signed off on the military alternative - a bombing campaign like Kosovo.

JMO.

I smell...strategery!

yeah, they'll turn it down...why theya re the great and mighty iran...

Can we not just get this over with already.

I'm weary of this battle, simply for the reason that we don't have the guts to finish it quickly and without hesitation. If Russia and China want some of this, then so be it. We can try to stop the flood by sticking gum in the holes in teh dam, or we can fix the problem and eliminate islam everywhere. Bush DID lie...the war IS with islam, as long as it's islamic terrorists killing us or trying to kill us. You'd think by now that the rest of hte Islamic community would have been super pro-active in helping to fight the small "tiny" factions. *roll eyes

We're all going to suffer at the hands of our government...that acts too slowly and with too little passion for saving us from the evil that is islam.

It's time to go to war with Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of them. Get it over with. They are NEVER going to listen to reason and stop their hatred of the kuffar.
We can sit here and hope, or we can go out and defend ourselves before it's too late.

God this stuff makes me depressed and angry.

Have a great day.
owl

#95 American Infidel

Troops that at any time can be whacked with a WMD...

no doubt carried by the mullahs' double secret flying Islamic stealth boat.

And the USA with it's puny Carriers, AWACS, Arrow Anti-Missile System, F16's, B-2 Stealth bombers & cruise missiles are defenceless against the awesome power of the flying boat!

#116 Kenneth

Khobar Towers.

check & checkmate goes to the Iranians...

This is a forking move, if we're using chess metaphors.

SeeBS says another terrorist attack is imminent

And surely if it's prevented, they'll blame Bush for making them look bad.

Maybe even make up some more stories about him.

If it does hapepn, they'll blame Bush for not connecting the dots, even though they don't want him to connect the dots (domestic spying!)

Everyone clear on this?

PARIS — Mustapha Tougui says he has the Quran in his blood. The Moroccan-born, Saudi-educated lecturer at the Muslim theological institute at the Paris Grand Mosque uses earthy language as he tries to preserve what he calls his students’ “spiritual hygiene.” His enthusiasm is infectious.
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Before I get my panties twisted in a knot, I need to know what type of technology we are giving. If it is modern Carbon-Uranium reactors I am actually cool with that, these can't be breeders. It can't be used for enrichment, only power generation. I wish we would start building these kind of reactors here (they are amazingly safe).

#97 thinkingmom

"Honest, Mom, we tried to give our lunch money to the bully, but he still wanted to slit our throats."

Enough.

"Ok, as long as you tried to play nice, now you can go kick the bastards a*s"

#113 Black George Bush

do you honestly think that this clown is going to take your goodie grab bag and pass up a chance to meet the hidden imam?

The whole idea is that Bush knows the Iranians will refuse this offer. This will end the charade that diplomacy will stop the mullahs.

#109

Someone would actually do that? How cheap.

no doubt carried by the mullahs' double secret flying Islamic stealth boat.

And the USA with it's puny Carriers, AWACS, Arrow Anti-Missile System, F16's, B-2 Stealth bombers & cruise missiles are defenceless against the awesome power of the flying boat!

I call it a KO by Kenneth.

#112 snowtravel
#15 friarstale: Be patient, it's coming. The need grows more obvious by the day.

The more we know about nuclear power plants, the more our national refrain is changing from Nimby to Hy-Biimby.

(Not In My Back Yard)

(Hell, Yes. Build It In My Back Yard)

OT: Tancredo Wins Straw Poll in Michigan

Rep. Tom Tancredo's get-tough-first attitude on immigration reform is having a positive impact on his possible presidential run in 2008. The Colorado Republican won tonight's GOP straw poll in Macomb County, Mich., located in the Detroit metro area.

Tancredo took about 18% of the vote of 325 votes cast at the Lincoln Day Dinner. Although it was only a plurality on a fractured GOP ballot, Tancredo beat out GOP heavyweights Rudy Giuliani, Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

#120 JammieWearingFool ~

Everyone clear on this?

Yep, we dig.

It's all bright, sparkling clear.

#126 JammieWearingFool

Khobar Towers. KO #1 for Iran.

JammieWearingFool

You are on a roll today! I needed a good laugh so thanks.

One more thing to add to the mix -

Solana ran NATO when the Kosovo bombing campaign was launched.

Here is one of his speeches on the matter.

The Kosovo campaign was every bit as "illegal" as Iraq was - probably more so.

When Europe sees her interests as threatened, they are the most capable at setting up a media campaign that justifies military actionas legal and warranted in world opinion. Last time around, Solana was part of that orchestration campaign.

This story and its flimsy sourcing are part of the campaign to soften minds to the idea that the US is going out of its way to be a team player and trying to get a peace "diplomatically."

The Mullahs won't take a deal (especially since they see such offers as weakness).

This is part of a media campaign to justify the future bombing of Iran.

It's an insane proposition, but maybe the State Dept. is just throwing it on the table, with the full knowledge, that the kook iranian pres. won't accept any offer, and then, at least it looks like America has offered everything "peaceful".

If that is what the State Dept. is doing, to appease the anti-war leftists the world over I have to say, it wouldn't matter if any country attacked the USA or Israel, and 100's of millions of people were killed, the wacko leftists the world over, would still blame the USA and say, "there is no terrorist threat, there is no terrorist threat.

The Iranian President will not accept any offer from the USA, except the one that he might not have any say in,

Iran, as a large sheet of glass!

Bush's approval rating is so low now, anyway, I just say, nuke'em!

#94 BobtheBuilder

Fast Breeder Reactors not "Safe" from proliferation.

Just "More Safe" --- Eh, Breeder reactors, Pebble Bed Reactors, if they have the fuel and it "disappears" in masse or by systematically skimming some off, they can still process out the Plutonium.

* Integrated fast reactors (which have been studied at Argonne National Laboratory and elsewhere), which employ pyro-processing technologies that do not separate the plutonium from the minor actinides and which integrate the reprocessing and reactor operation at a single site.
* Metal-cooled fast reactors using lead or lead/bismuth, where the reprocessing is designed to extract not all the fission products.
* Molten-salt thermal breeder reactors that would integrate continuous reprocessing with reactor operations.26

The questions they all raise are several. First, are the reactors conducive to allowing accurate material accounting by a safeguards' agency or would they demand almost complete reliance on containment and surveillance measures? (This is not to say that pyro-processing will be more difficult to safeguard than more traditional reprocessing). Second, can the fuel recycling equipment be operated in a manner that would allow the extraction of large amounts of plutonium fairly quickly, for example, by changing the reagents used in the reprocessing or adding a cleanup stage? And, finally, a question relevant to all nuclear power under national control: do the fuel cycles inevitably provide their operators with highly-useful knowledge for the acquisition of weapons- usable materials?

Well, the page won't load for me, so I can't see what it says. But 2 things.

1) Is this perchance an AP report? Reuters-lite?

2) There are U.S. laws that govern/regulate what technology we can share. Any technology we put on the table is limited by those laws/regs. There was a big bruhaha recently about some military planes we are selling to Britain - sans some super-duper secret tech stuff. The UK balked - they wanted it all. I think (would have to actually check) the Senate committee told them to go piss up a rope somewhere.

#122 david e

Agreed. But the enviro-nuts (not the actual people who care about the environment on reasoned grounds) have implanted in your averaged person the thought that all nuclear power is a bomb waiting to kill you.

You are always going to have difficulty persuading people that nuclear power is safe, even when it is.

grayp

the voice of reason has spoken...thank you.

#122 david e

The only carbon or graphite reactor type that is really safe is the "pebble" type of reactor. But they are kind of wasteful.

Remember that Cheynoble was a dry reactor (although it was a graphite bed reactor, not "pebble") and had a few safety problems.

But overall I agree with you dave, modern technology has addressed the weaponized fuel problem and also the waste problem.

For Nuclear power in the US we still have a significant NIMBY problem.

we the people elected Georege W Bush as the only chance to free the iranian people from the mullahs not to keep the mullahs stranglehold over the iranian people going strong as kerry and his europals would have done...

this goes to show, dem or repub, it's all about keeping the status quo for the elites in power, the hell with the rest of us...

this had better be some good strategery on W's part...

not holding my breath...

hi loppyd,

132 loppyd 6/6/2006 10:07AM PDT

JammieWearingFool

You are on a roll today! I needed a good laugh so thanks.

Actually, I'm on freshly-baked ciabatta bread, but I get your point. I won't remind you of the thrashing the Columbus Clippers administered last night.

What nuclear technology are we offering that Europe doesn't have, or already provides? We haven't built a nuclear plant in 30 years.

#136 grayp

Well now, those "laws" certainly didn't stop Bill Clinton from seeling secrets to China for campaign cash!

Who in Congress, with the exception of some very American GOP, abides by laws, or the Constitution anymore, anyway!

What Kenneth said

(#19)

#124 Kenneth

The spin will be if only it were Kerry instead of Bush it would have been successfully negotiated.Not that Iran is beyond diplomacy. The world is too far gone for reason to set in.

/Just my take on this topic.

#122 david e

Before I get my panties twisted in a knot, I need to know what type of technology we are giving.

From what I read the offer is for light water reactors, but the details were missing. Ask Fabio C, I believe he is a nuclear engineer.

Roger,

Khobar towers was a car bomb attack on a civilian apartment block, carried out by terrorists in collusion with elements of the Saudi security apparatus. Not applicable. I would like to see them try a car bomb against the USS Enterprise.

The USS Cole would be a better example of your point, but that is still a long way from whacking all the US forces in the region with WMD. No doubt the Iranian's will try somthing like that, and some attacks might get through. But I believe AI was trying to assert that the US forces are impotent becuse the mullahs can "whack them at anytime with WMD". That assertion is nonsense, and the mullah's know it even if you don't.

We have to wait to see what happens.
So we have time.
And we have time to

( I )

digitally mooning the madmullahs !

Jammie

Mmmm...ciabatta bread.

I won't remind you of the thrashing the Columbus Clippers administered last night.

No need. It's seared...seared into my memory.

#106 JammieWearingFool

UK troops cleared in drowning

Do ou know if that was Zeyad's cousin?

Iran, as a large sheet of glass!

Bush's approval rating is so low now, anyway, I just say, nuke'em!

Best left said to yourself.

ou=you

I hope that if this is indeed the offer that the assatolahs reject it. Because if they accept the offer, we have a bigger problem. They cannot be trusted, and will hide their weapons programs while taking the jizya.

Now, if our offer of nuclear technolog detonates on arrival, fine.

ai

You know, the southern portion of Iraq and specifically the city of Basra that has been completely infiltrated by Iranian special ops...

Here we go afain. Offer some real proof, please.

afain, again...who's keeping track? PIMF

Kenneth

The whole idea is that Bush knows the Iranians will refuse this offer. This will end the charade that diplomacy will stop the mullahs.

Particularly b/c any "incentives" require an agreement to immediately stop uranium enrichment as a pre-condition- with verifiable and unlimited inspections.

Its a done deal. They'll never agree.

The down side is that if they DO agree, they can play the Sadaam cat-and-mouse game and buy more time.

Off to watch brother's kids...will be interested to see the links about Iran completely infiltrating the south of Iraq when I can get back on-line.

Well that's going to energize the Republican Party's conservative base for November.

Goodbye Condi Rice - swallowed whole by the State Department.

#151

So you then are in the camp of, "lets wait", and only attack after millions of Israeli's or Americans or Europeans are dead?

It's obvious right now, to most, that the idiot kook iranian pres. isn't going to accept ANYTHING, other than trying to usher in his "prophet".

There was a time when I honestly thought that people would get it, but I guess I was wrong.

Fresh from rehab, Swimmer Junior returns to typical incoherent rambling, dissembling and racial pandering.

Did he actually dry out or was his brain removed, immersed in bourbon, and placed back in before uttering this nonsense?

Fresh from rehab, Rep. Patrick Kennedy said yesterday he wants to be treated like an African-American from Washington if and when he gets charged for crashing his car on Capitol Hill.

Denying that he was drunk and or that he asked the Capitol Police for preferential treatment, Kennedy, a Rhode Island congressman, said he's prepared "in terms of bookings, in terms of mug shots, fingerprints, whatever they might have me do."

"It's what anyone else would have done to them if they were an African-American in Anacostia," Kennedy said in a shaky voice, referring to the mostly minority neighborhood in southeastern Washington.

Later, Kennedy fretted that "there are probably people who want to throw the book at me a little more to prove that they're not treating me special."

No shit, sherlock.

#146 Kenneth

It was carried out by/for Iran. My FBI. You are saying what Clinton wants everyone to believe.

It is highly applicable if it were beefier than a car and carried a nuke.

Iran wants the US out of the Gulf. It knows it can't defeat the US. But it can cause the US, governed by future moonbats, to withdraw.

The AP headline and story says nothing. Kenneth makes the most sense here.

Hate to say it folks, LGF is beginning to look like a collection of 'knee jerks'.

I thought the same thing until I READ ONE PARAGRAPH INTO THE STORY. Come on people.

Of course, the AP isn't helping, but we all knew that. I like the picture of the smiling diplomats shaking hands, which to the stupid and PEOPLE WHO DON'T READ THE FIRST PARAGRAPH would look at first glance to be a photo of the "deal" being "shaken" upon.

Closer inspection reveals it to be Javier Solana, not an American and barely at all human.

#145 Roger

The spin will be if only it were Kerry instead of Bush it would have been successfully negotiated.Not that Iran is beyond diplomacy. The world is too far gone for reason to set in.

/Just my take on this topic.

I'm sure we will see those headlines soon, if they aren't out already.

Look, do you think the NYT, CNN & Reuters are interested in actually informing the public? No, they are in the business of winning political campaigns for their side. They will happily distort the facts in a headline (i.e. it isn't US nuke technology on offer, it's European) to get Conservatives fed-up with Bush & the Republicans.

And it's working. I hope you all remember that during the next Clinton Administration.

OT - via instapundit -

Canada's jihadis wanted to behead the PM.

Just remember - Islam is NOT the common thread holding that group together.

ai

so happy I got a call and had to stay 5 more mins.

Why?!?
So tomorrow you could ask for the same thing again?!?

No, because you never offer a shred of concrete evidence.

Am I mellowing in my old age?

I ordered from a newish pizza place in my neighborhood last night. They're known for funkier pizza and I ordered the 'intermediate' because I'm boring and it sounded most like regular pizza.

Anyway, the delivery guy came to my door in a Che shirt. I rolled my eyes only a little and didn't engage him in any "I was born in a Communist country, you realize you're wearing a murderer on your shirt, right?" No, I just gave him less of a tip than I would've and called it a day. Then when I saw the recycling instructions on the box I pledged never to order from the preachy, commie place ever again. So, maybe not that mellow.

I wonder how much business they will lose with moonbat delivery guys like this?

Now I do have to go for real.

Later, Lizards.

The whole idea is that Bush knows the Iranians will refuse this offer. This will end the charade that diplomacy will stop the mullahs.

For the Europeans, nothing will end the charade that diplomacy will stop the mullahs. When it comes to diplomacy the Europeans adopt a policy of perpetual inertia.

#161 Jammie

What a patrician boob that guy is. Totally disconnected from real people.

I have a feeling that he didn't have to ask for preferential treatment from the cops. They just gave it to him. After all, he is a Dem, and probably a staunch supporter of their union. They know which side their bread is buttered on.

Speaking of US nuclear technology being given to other countries:

Any Protest Warriors in the house? I can't make it to the following event, but SOMEBODY just HAS TO protest this asshat:

Robert Meeropol was six years old when his parents, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg, were sent to the electric chair on June 19, 1953, executed by the U.S. government in one of the most hotly debated trials in American history. To mark the 53rd anniversary of that event, Meeropol - now an attorney, activist and leader of a public foundation he started as a legacy to his parents- will speak at public events in Marin and Berkeley, discussing the dangers of the current political climate and the alarming relevance of his parents’ case today.
...
On Monday, June 19th, the anniversary of the executions, Meeropol will give the same program at 7:30 pm at the Middle East Children’s Alliance (MECA) at 901 Parker St. (at 7th), Berkeley. On the 19th he will be joined by special guest, Ronnie Gilbert, formerly of the blacklisted folk group, The Weavers, who will read Ethel Rosenberg’s last letter to Robert and his brother, written from prison just hours before her execution.

Meeropol’s presentation at both locations, entitled, McCARTHY ERA LESSONS FOR BUSH’S AMERICA, will describe his unique perspective on the U.S. government’s unprecedented new powers to investigate citizens’ lives in the name of preventing terrorism. He notes, “In the wake of 9/11 and the war with Iraq, this administration’s policies have many chilling parallels with the tactics of the McCarthy era, which were epitomized by my parents’ arrest and execution.”
...
Today Meeropol leads the Rosenberg Fund for Children (RFC), a public foundation he started in 1990. The RFC (www.rfc.org) echoes the support Meeropol received from the progressive community after his parents’ deaths, by aiding children in this country today who are living through similar nightmares to that which he experienced as a child. The Fund’s work assisting the children of activists who have been harmed because of their involvement in progressive struggles, will be the backdrop for this talk about the dangers of the current political climate and its similarities to the politics of the 1950’s.

So: giving nukes to the Russians and setting off a global arms race, for the very purpose of destroying the United States and capitalism, is now euphemistically called "involvement in progressive struggles."

How can events like this go on, unchallenged? It's sheer insanity. I've been in pro-Rosenberg meetings (private ones), and believe me, these people do NOT deny what they Rosenbergs did -- they simply think it was a good idea, something to celebrate.

Won't someone show up and protest this appearance? Alert the Protest Warriors! If anyone here knows a Protest Warrior in the Bay Area, please send them a link to this comment.

(Sorry, no link for the event listing -- it's not online.)

#164 Kenneth

Well who is President Bush grooming for the job?

Just wonderin'...

Don't we have our LGF cart a little bit ahead of the LGF horse?

I haven't seen the details of this deal yet...maybe others have?

If it turns out that we're not giving away anything weaponizable, then it seems that we've done no harm and may have success in pushing the UN security council into a minimum of tacit support for whatever the US needs to do with sanctions or military action.

Why not offer the Czech Republic and Slovakia. And throw in Alsace and Lorraine while we're in a generous mood.

#167 NJDhockeyfan

Since you're a hockey fan, and a Devils one at that, why didn't you just kick his ass?

/LOL

#174 tigger2005

And the Suedetenland.

#171 Zombie

On Monday, June 19th, the anniversary of the executions, Meeropol will give the same program at 7:30 pm at the Middle East Children’s Alliance (MECA) at 901 Parker St. (at 7th), Berkeley.

NUKE THEM ! ! !

/no, Agent, it was a joke, you know, the Rosenbergs, the nukes to the USSR, karma...c'mon, what are you doing ? Call a lawyer ? Why ?

#148 American Infidel

Fact check time:
Where did I say WMD's are only nukes? But you did say that all the US forces in the region can be whacked at anytime by WMD's. The Iran/Iraq border is not "unprotected" it is inadequately protected. Yes, there are Iranian agents in IRaq, but they don't control it. So far the terrorists have had a pretty lousy record attempting to get a car bomb anywhere near a major US base. The mullahs may get lucky once, but they cannot hit all the US forces everywhere at the same time. Get real!

Roger, I am well aware Iran was behind the Khobar Towers attack. My point stands. BTW, who was President then?

devils fan,

I noticed on that link the place is located on the upper west side. The jerk probably gets extra tips for wearing the Che shirt.

#148, AI. Take your white flag and go surrender to someone. You have been beaten and are useless to those who are in the fight. Defeatism is not a program for victory Moby, and you have the stain of defeat all over you.

I'm with #173 eschew_obfuscation on this. The original linked story doesn't provide sufficient details about what we're talking about here. Is there reason to be worried? Absolutely.

And yet, it's also about playing the grand game of chicken diplomacy. You've got to put out enough of a credible offer that the nutters in Iran will refuse and the US looks like they're the reasonable, nuanced, and flexible ones for showing that the US was willing to provide nuclear technologies for civilian purposes. That Iran wont take even this deal shows that Iran has no intention of sticking to purely civilian goals - but instead seeks to use the nuclear technologies for military purposes - to build weapons against their enemies.

I believe this is about putting Iran in a corner, and this simply a negotiating stance to achieve that aim.

Hockey? Did some say hockey?

/great game until the Oiler's goalie, Dwayne Roloson, got injured. I still can't understand how it happened.

Lots of white flag waving going on, looks like the moby infiltration is working.

#185 Roger 6/6/2006 10:32AM PDT
Hockey? Did some say hockey?

Ice Boxing?

#176 Ward Cleaver

And the Suedetenland.

LOL !

Maybe this time we can offer ALL of Europe: that would be funny, since they are part of the team that produced the "diplomatic offer".

Renounce the nukes, we give you all of Europe, you just send us the Uffizi and the Louvre and the British Museum and we pay a yearly fee for the safe maintenance of the monuments.

We should tell this to the Eurabians...hey you need to sacrifice for peace...

Roger,

Maybe Bush is, unwittingly, grooming this guy.

Tom Tancredo, secret Rovian agent.

#135 BobtheBuilder

Ultimately, the "Atom Squad" in Iran has been hard at it for 18 years.

I expect them to ultimately "reject" any offers of "free Technology" "free Nuke power Plants" "free fuel and free spent fuel disposal"...

Because they are now right on the doorstep of what they REALLY want NOW, two or three years according to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ,

... enriched Uranium, and lots of it, enough for 3 to 10 bombs a year depending on warhead design.

PS - do you think the Moscow Physics Institute is teaching it's own MIRV designs to their foriegn pupils ? Or do they have to get those out of China ?

What Islam has done for North and West Africa, it wants to do for North America

The security forces have recently identified initial signs that World Jihad has begun building an ideological foothold in the West Bank, Shin Bet Director Yuval Diskin said on Tuesday.

The head of the domestic security service told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee that security forces recently arrested individuals in the Jerusalem and Nablus areas found with plans for terror attacks.

The plans were very general and did not include specific timetables.

Diskin reminded the Knesset committee that World Jihad also has an infrastructure set up in neighboring Jordan, but added that the Jordanian authorities are operating widely against the organization.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

#184 song_and_dance_man

Wet Willie ingored this and accepted money from the Chinese army via Johnny Chung during his last bid for the White House.

I think you're mixing apples and oranges here. Your example is about campaign contributions which are under the purview of entirely different laws.

I DO, however, remember a technology transfer of some sort to China that was approved by the State Dept. that resulted in some raised eyebrows. I don't remember the details - the reason I remember it at all is that was the incident that made me think of State as a fifth column.

I turn away to actually do the job I'm paid for, and what do I find when I get back?

Ahhh so a WMD for you can only be a nuke now and it will only be delivered via air or sea?!?

Perhaps you fail to take into consideration the border that Iran has with Iraq...

You know the UNDEFENDED BORDER...

You know, the southern portion of Iraq and specifically the city of Basra that has been completely infiltrated by Iranian special ops...

You know, all that $$$ that Iran is pouring into Iraq via its supporters means nothing and absolutely no WMD can be snuck in there and exploded over a camp or two or three or four in a simultaneous attack on American soldiers...

Right. That is the most hysterical piece of paranoid crap it's been my misfortune to read in a long time. Take every possible hint of bad news, and then assume that we're so freaking incompetent that none of this has been noted, corrected, or even placed under surveillance.

God, it isn't even late yet, and you clearly need a drink.

#171 zombie

I'm hoping that protesters will show up with signs bearing this image.

JWF-

Tancredo would be an awesome president.

My 2¢ worth: it's a case of the camel's nose in the tent. In this instance, I think the US is offering to "give" nuclear technology in exchange for US and UN inspections. Of course Iran won't go for it. They know if they agree, it's endgame for them. If they don't agree, they can wedge other coutries (and Jimmy Carter) over to their side. It's a chess match.

#179 Kenneth

The same name as will be the name for the 44^th POTUS.

#183 lawhawk

This is different than having Jimmy Carter as your foreign policy guru?;-)

#190 Addenda

U.S. cites Iran for "Human Trafficking

If you think Bush is going to allow Iran to develop the big one, you are an ass-hat.

I notice that we've had one lone Reuters visitor thus far today.

/hey, lil' fella, you wanna come over here and talk about it?

#189 Jammie

If he is, it's definitely unwittingly. Has Tancredo even said a word about a desire to run?

#195, AI. Wave that white flag AI, wave it so that everyone can see you for what you represent.

#189 JammieWearingFool

Heh™! Something has got to happen.

#187 eschew_obfuscation

Ice Boxing?

Double heh!

#194 American Infidel

Whether you want to admit it or not, islam & its jihadists (in whatever shape other then gun toting jihadists) are winning and the West is losing ground on a daily basis...

This is a large forum, A.I., many don't see what is happening and so they attack you because in their opinion you bring bad news.

Time will tell what is going to happen and if the West will succeed in waking up and stopping the invasion supported by worldwide terrorism.

You will never convince those who want to keep the head under the sand.
In Europe today there is still a large majority unable to see what's happening, imagine what's the situation in America.

Michelle Malkin has some court docs posted in relation to the Broad Strata terrorist gang's American connections.

Looks like there not done rounding up more ROPers, either.

Perhaps the deafening silence from the left indicates a modicum of shame at how stupid they look whining about surveillance, since if the authorities involved didn't have these clowns under watch, parts of southern Ontario might today be in ruins.

If I'm wrong about them being shamed, then it will just confirm they're on the side of the enemy.

#199 American Infidel

I see moslem apologists have arrived in force...

And that is what happened in Europe: "nothing is happening, we are so strong, there is no reason to worry".

Tout va bien madame la marquise.

Facts will change the opinions of the majority, science is for minorities.

#207, P-L. America is fighting, Europe is not.

#201 freedomplow

I'm not concerned about President Bush. I am concerned he can't get thru all that needs to be done in his time frame.

Is Bush going for a record lowest approval rating ever by fully pissing off his base?

#135 Havoc ...
... and any the other Lizards who feel a case of the shivers whenever someone mentions "Nuclear Reactor"

Nuclear power does not have to instill fear into the heart of man and Lizard alike!

Electrorefining of ALMR fuel makes weaponization highly unlikely due to the fuel amalgam having properties which make extraction of any remnants of plutonium or high grade uranium nearly impossible to refine out of the fuel core either before or after its use in the reactor.

ALMR reactors can actually de-weaponize weapons grade fuel.

The main problems with ALMR reactors are the initial cost to build, and the incessant whining of anti-nuke fear mongers and the resultant political pressure against building ANY new reactor of ANY type in nearly every western country.

Is anyone else tired of anti-nuke propaganda bieng passed off as fact?

the United States, in addition to helping ANY other country build a modern nuclear reactor, should be building one hundred of them right here! (at least two per state).

But let's just keep supporting the oil ticks and their terror war on the rest of the planet.

Why look to the future?

It's obviously just too scary!

#194 American Infidel

You have ceased being interesting today. You ignore my points, change to subject of your points, throw up strawmen arguments & nonsequitors, and you contradict yourself without realizing it.

Borrringgg...

what was the name of that traitor president on 24? Logan? This is a Logan-type move.

#207 P-L

We are not losing. We have problems, and I would agree that we're not dealing with them as effectively as we ought, because no one in government will consistently say, "Islamofascists".

But we won't get anywhere by assuming our defeat, and getting hysterical.

Ward et al.,

Haven't seen any indication Tancredo would run, and like I said, maybe Bush is unwittingly helping him with his feckless immigration policies.

I saw yesterday where Newt won big in the Minnesota straw poll.

I could take either one, but the media would savage either of them, unfortunately, while throwing rose petals at The Witch.

On the upside, McCain's numbers in these polls give him about as much a shot at the GOP nomination as the KC Royals have of winning the Worls Series this year.

#202 mike(in)savage

I notice that we've had one lone Reuters visitor thus far today.

They're all busy commemorating D-Day.

/I crack me up

#211 American Infidel 6/6/2006 10:48AM PDT
Iran Focus links to a story from NYT and details about what is being offered:

The Carrot:

Officials first wanted to present the package to Iranian authorities. But with Mr. Solana's arrival in Tehran, several European and American diplomats described parts of the proposal, speaking anonymously because they were not authorized to comment publicly.

The offer includes a commitment from the six nations to support Iran's plan for a nuclear energy program for civilian use, including building light-water reactors through joint projects with other countries, the diplomats said.

Does anyone know if this could be a breeder reactor or is that by definition completely different?

#165 karmic_inquisitor

Canada's jihadis wanted to behead the PM.

Just remember - Islam is NOT the common thread holding that group together.

Ah, now that will earn the jihadis plenty of support among the Canadian media and leftists!

Totally OT. A 2.5 hour delay in Chicago, so just killing time. Hello Chicago Blue and American Infidel ! I stood outside and waved constantly while slowly turning a circle (and looked like an idiot doing so), so I have waved at you.

#220 eschew_obfuscation

A light water reactor is NOT a breeder reactor. Very different.

#210 gymnast

The question though is, will the pendulum swing? If so can it swing back quickly enough 4 years later?

An example of how the left thinks. The following is from a local blog (and a good one). Alan Fine is a moderate Republican running for Congress in LLL Minneapolis against a former Nation of Islam memeber.

1. I’m sure Alan Fine will do an awesome job of representing Israeli interests in the US Congress. Think about it, he will vote to send the American Army to Iran before they are even done with their mission to protect Israel from Iraq.
It will be wonderful for Israel. Who cares about the dumb trailer trash Christians who die while serving in the American Army?
Comment by Chuck Johnson — June 6, 2006 @ 10:53 am

#213 SlothB77

That's why W threw us the bone known as the Marriage Protection Amendment yesterday.

He's hoping we'll forget about his pro-illegal alien "immigration reform" plan. I haven't. As pro-life and pro-family as I am, for me those issues have taken a backseat to securing our borders and effectively prosecuting the GWoT.

#221 Kenneth

LOL.

I think you have found the "common thread" that perplexed Canadians are trying to find among those 17 people from very different walks of life -

They are all ANGRY PROGRESSIVES!

#137 Dianna, unfortunately you are correct.

The however to this is that Greenpeace is actually splitting on this issue.

sloth,

These numbers, while low, aren't nearly as bad as portrayed.

A good couple of months and he could get back to 50%. Then we can watch a mass head explosion from the LLL's.

Oh, and to make comparisions to a fictional character on a television show is as absurd as the leftitst weirdos thinking Martin Sheen is really president. Grow up.

The Candian terrorists not only wanted to behaed Harper. They wanted to blow up the CBC! No wonder the CBC is using the "t" word! Not militant, not insurgent, not activists, but outright TERRORISTS.

Well to my mind this just proves how stupid these jihadis are. They have no better friend or supporter than the CBC. To blow up the CBC is the absolute best example of biting the hand that feeds you that I can think of.

Meanwhile, civil unrest grows in Iran.

The mullahs are on the clock, and their time is running out.

late to the debate but my two cents: 24 hour rule.

according to the diplomats, who were familiar with the proposals and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity

When Condi goes on TV to announce that the Iranians have accepted this,I will start to worry. Diplomacy takes time. So does a run up to war.

#222, song. The Loral contract with China to launch military communications satellites. The first launch failed and Loral gave the Chinese the Tech to "be more precise". The Head of Loral was Clinton and the DNC's largest individual contributor IIRC. What ever happened to the remains of the satellite was never disclosed to my knowledge. See Timmerman, "The Year of the Rat".

Back on topic: an offer to give technological assistance and actually doing it are entirely different matters. This is a long night of poker, folks. There will be many hands, and the psychological game is an important one. Now, one can argue whether this is the right signal to send, but so far it is only a signal. It is not the actual stuff.

#223 Mike C.

There's gotta be a Web-linked surveillance camera somewhere that caught you waving.

(frantically searching)

#222 song and dance

This story makes no sense so far.

Course not. That's because - as I found out from reading up-thread - it's from AP.

But there is a background logic to it all. The other nite I was watching one of the broadcast new networks (I was on an island - no Fox) - report that "Iran says there could be a breakthrough on talks with U.S.". That was the teaser. The actual story? Only if the U.S. drops all conditions.

Actually, I suspect the backstory on this whole situation is less about Iran and more about the U.S. getting Europe by the shorthairs.

Want some gossip? My wish is your command. Heather Mills, aka, soon-to-be the ex Lady McCartney, was a porn star in an earlier incarnation (work safe).

#234 Judith

Well to my mind this just proves how stupid these jihadis are. They have no better friend or supporter than the CBC. To blow up the CBC is the absolute best example of biting the hand that feeds you that I can think of.

They must have been upset with the return this season of Hockey Night in Canada.

#240 Ward Cleaver 6/6/2006 11:03AM PDT
#223 Mike C.

There's gotta be a Web-linked surveillance camera somewhere that caught you waving.

(frantically searching)

Check Zombie's site...she probably has both your pictures :) ...Zombie has everyone's pics

Mike C. ~

Hello!

I am going to my window right now and wave back at you! I can see the airport easily.

Right...now!

You are too cute!

My wish is your command. Heather Mills, aka, soon-to-be the ex Lady McCartney, was a porn star in an earlier incarnation (work safe).

Umm, don't click on the thumbnails. They're NOT work safe.

#228 Ward

Show of hands:

1) Who thought the same-sex marriage issue was really a matter for the feds?

2) Who thought it would get through congress?

3) Who thinks this really is a matter for the states?

Ward Cleaver-Must be those Don Cherry suits that did it. Just sent them right over the edge.

Next time, I'm not bothering to vote.

Charles, perhaps you'ld prefer $125/barrel oil?

Losing 199 points on the Dow and 2% of the Nasdaq yesterday will be considered the 'good ole days' if Iran stops shipping oil to the US.

Face it dude, Iran is nuts, but they're not stupid. They have us by the gazingos.

The good news? They'll never accept the incentives we've offered.

241 grayp

backstory on this whole situation is less about Iran and more about the U.S. getting Europe by the shorthairs.

smartest thing I've seen here today!

#231 david e

It had to happen sometime. There's a divide in Greenpeace between those with science backgrounds and those with liberal arts/fuzzy bunny worship backgrounds.

BTW, stop selling your stocks. The school of fish or the flock of birds mentality bothers me.

According to Diskin, weapons smuggling into Gaza has reached unprecedented proportions. Since the Israeli pullout which left the Egyptian-Gazan border in the hands of Egypt and the Palestinian Authority, Arab terrorists have succeeded in smuggling 11 tons of TNT into Gaza.

Aside from TNT, which vastly improves terrorists’ ability to manufacture more deadly Kassam rockets and explosive vests for suicide bombers, terrorists have smuggled massive quantities of other weapons across the Egypt-Gaza border.

Among the new weapons at the terrorists’ disposal were 10,000 rifles, 1600 pistols, RPG’s, Katyushas, and shoulder fired Strella missiles. The latter are capable of downing civilian aircraft. Some of the new weaponry entered Gaza via the Rafiah crossing with Egypt.
[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

The alternative to Stopping Iran from achieving Nuclear Fuel Cycle Self Sufficiency

-- is completely unacceptable.

Kind of puts the "immediately on fire zone in perspective"

If Iran is not stopped, no one else will be in the future.

Don't forget it ain't pretty afterwards, You Will Survive Doomsday, are you sure you want to ... and have a plan ?

#247 Judith

LOL!

That, and too many beer commercials, plus the closeups of burqa-free women in the stands.

#246 Dianna 6/6/2006 11:09AM PDT
#228 Ward

Show of hands:

1) Who thought the same-sex marriage issue was really a matter for the feds?

Not originally...it should be with the states, but the courts keep overriding state legislatures.

2) Who thought it would get through congress?

Not me...

3) Who thinks this really is a matter for the states?

See 1) above

On Greenpeace...didn't they start out as a rational organization?

As far as deaths go, no one has ever been killed by a nuclear power plant in the US (that I know of).

I used to live in a town where coal trains transloaded into Great Lakes ships for coal fired power plants. We'd get 2-4 deaths each year from either trains hitting trespassers or bums found frozen to death in the rail cars.

Coal plants kill far more people then a nuclear plant will.

253 storagemanager- Debka this am said that Hamas had attacked Fatah HQ with missiles and that the Gazans were continuing to lob missiles into the Negev. If the Islamofascists get one nuke they will argue over whether to target: The Joos ; the grest Sstan; Fwance; or each other.

#236 Jim in Virginia

What is the latest month[that also makes military sense] before a presidential election a President can/should start a war?

#257, I agree. The reason it's a Federal issue now is that if 3 judges in Mass can force alternative forms of marriage, then what happens when those married couples or groups move elsewhere?

OT, but I have to vent.

Last night I played poker with a bunch of buddies, one guy was new. The guy was very soft spoken, turns out the new guy has served in Iraq in the Army in Pyschological Operations (he said he went around handing out candy to kids, trying to create good feelings).

The first thing one of my idiot friends asked was, "Did you see any soldiers beating anyone?" Then someone else said, "We're massacring Civilians over there" I couldn't believe these bozos. Here was a guy who served in Iraq, and they're basically insulting the military. I was totally disgusted and said, "don't you realize that's the exception, not the rule? 99.9% of the guys over there are like this guy, and are good guys."

If the general public are as ill-informed and gullible as my poker buddies, the MSM is winning. God help us.

As I postred in the last thread on Iran.

This is last speck of sand in the hourglass.

Iran will say no and Bush really does mean it when he says that all options are on the table.

Iran has murdered US troops in Iraq and has dozens of acts of terror and letting half the 9-11 perpetrators go through Iran on their way to America's landmarks.

Iran offers safe harbor and R&R to al Qaeda leaders. Saad Bin Laden is there with a price on his head.

The US will attempt overthrown first but once the diplomacy is out of the way, we are going all out on this regime.

Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and the PA will all be better places when the Iranian regime is gone. They are and always have been the poison root of the Islamist vine. Kill it and humanity's garden will bloom.

#258 Dave the ...

Greenpeace? Sort of. But they also believed in drama, thus the little zodiacs zipping around the whaling ships. And the drama sometimes seems more important than any kind of solid analysis.

#226 American Infidel

I may have hold of the wrong end of the stick here, but if you're saying that terrorism is not the only instrument of the jihad, then I think you're quite right. Hugh Fitzgerald suggests:

Da'wa and demographic conquest from within are far more dangerous than outright terrorism, and it will require a change in mental makeup for the Infidels to deal with them properly.

And here's Mark Steyn's article on the demographic problem:

The real reason the West is in danger of extinction

Those are serious arguments by serious people.

#265 Bush may be a big gov't liberal on domestic policy, but I still trust him on foriegn matters. Perhaps he has a plan.

let me guess...this idea came out of the state department?

Damn. I have to work.

#249 DocDublU 6/6/2006 11:10AM PDT
Charles, perhaps you'ld prefer $125/barrel oil?

Losing 199 points on the Dow and 2% of the Nasdaq yesterday will be considered the 'good ole days' if Iran stops shipping oil to the US.
Face it dude, Iran is nuts, but they're not stupid. They have us by the gazingos.

The good news? They'll never accept the incentives we've offered.

Iran doesn't ship oil to the US. There has been an embargo of Iranian products for quite some time.

They do, however, sell oil on the global market and any reduction in production/export would affect world oil prices pissing off every major oil-consuming country in the world and encouraging oil-producing countries to increase production.

Besides...I'm pretty sure Iran needs the world's oil money as badly as the world needs Iran's oil.

If I remember right, Greenpeace had some okay goals when they started. They achieved them, then went nuts.

I'm pretty sure its founder now says "they are wackos now".

264 American Infidel

US adopts 'soft power' with Iran

"soft power" = appeasement

[Link: news.bbc.co.u...]

You are being lead by your nose. That's what the BBC wants you to believe.

#246 Dianna
Re: Gay marriage
Whether or not it's dealt with states or the feds it should under no circumstances be an ammendment to the constitution. Maybe some of our constitutional experts will correct me but the LLL talking point of "this would be the only amendment to limit the freedoms of a specific group" might be correct in this case.
But there's no real danger of this thing passing, it seems to be a transparent attempt to appease the religious right.

#249 DocDublu

Losing 199 points on the Dow and 2% of the Nasdaq yesterday will be considered the 'good ole days' if Iran stops shipping oil to the US.

The U.S. stopped importing Iranian oil years ago. The market points are on concerns of a FedResv rate increase.

Ok, this is OT but another notch in the 'Have the gods gone crazy?' litany.

(fjordman, where are you?)

Systembolaget, Sweden's state alcohol retail monopoly has been slammed by a Christian Democrat MP for branding an Israeli wine as produced in "occupied Syrian territory."

The shelves carrying the Golan Chardonnay, produced in the occupied Golan Heights, had previously labeled the kosher wine as coming from Israel. But Systembolaget says it changed the labels after complaints from members of the public.

Systembolaget's press spokesman Björn Rydberg said that the state-owned company had asked the foreign ministry to help it find a politically correct formulation, according to Svenska Dagbladet.

buh-bye Sweden.

#211 American Infidel -

I think everyone should be clear on one thing in this debate - Russia and China aren't ever going to sign off military action against Iran. Ever.

This whole "6 nations" bit is an exercise in how far those 2 can be pushed into the sanctions realm. That is where the "united front" ends. From then on it will be the US and Europe.

Iran won't do well under sanctions. Not at all. They already have high inflation and high unemployment. Their economy is so corrupt and Mullah-centric that they have to import 40% of their gasoline - mainly from Gulf states that are among the nations feeling most threatened by a nuclear Iran (they have Shi'a minorities who generally live on the oil land).

I for one would like to avoid a land force attack on Iran - with that comes occupation, and we are dealing with mentalities that can't accept liberation as a good thing - look at Al Sadr's minions.

I'd rather see the 24% Azeri population be joined by disaffected youth with no job prospects take to the streets and bring down the Mullahs. Try sanctions for a few months and then bomb the living sh*t out of them, but keep ground forces out.

It worked in Serbia and it can work there too - it just isn't going to happen overnight.

As for white flags and apologism - this is about picking your battles. A toppling of the Iranian regime without invasion would be a huge gain for our side. A more secular replacement government with an authentic democracy would likely meddle less in Iraq and Israel and be more concerned with getting jobs for their people (average age of their population is 26, IIRC).

You Knew It Would Happen... "Paris Riots" The Video Game!

LOL!

#263 GregInSeattle
I live in the moonbat haven of Portland. My friends are all moonbats Who have no understanding of military or federal service of any kind. It's just not within their shpere of understanding, they can't help it.

#271 e_o

I'm pretty sure Iran needs the world's oil money as badly as the world needs Iran's oil.

80% of their revenue. And they can't refine any of their own oil.

#271 eschew_obfuscation

Besides...I'm pretty sure Iran needs the world's oil money as badly as the world needs Iran's oil.

They need the oil money much worse than we need their oil. The rest of the world can get oil somewhere else, even if the price goes up. Iran has nothing else (aside from pistacios) to sell the world. The regime runs on oil money.

Mahmoud a partner for peace...yes yes...Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

"If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated."

"Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."

"Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."

#263 GregInSeattle -

Seattle has gone to the moonbats. When I was up at Ft Lewis in the early 80's it was a much different place. People liked the Army then.

At least people down here in the San Diego area haven't turned on the Marines.

#277, AI. Shifty white flag waver aren't 'cha.