As I play the world's smallest violin...

To the MSM, Islam can do no wrong. Therefore I am not surprised at all.

10 hours a day on the 'net?
5 hour daily phone calls?
16 year old girl?

Sick puppy.

Well, at least she's not 9 years old, like Mohammed's wife Aisha was.

Her parents might have to go to court to prevent her going back:

[Link: www.freep.com...]

Jimzawi works in his father's business delivering goods to minimarkets and has never gotten into trouble.

So, he's a good boy? Well, that makes everything all right then.

Family of West Bank Romeo very upset she didn't show up:

[Link: www.mlive.com...]

Touching story. When will we hear about Zarqawi's orphaned puppy?

Zarqawi would have referred to her as a older woman.

I bet theirs was an explosive love.

He thought she was the bomb.

The next Rachel Corrie is she.

Al-AP interviewed the 'boy's' mother last week.

The problem is that the girl will be 17 on Wednesday and the age of consent in Michigan is 16.

Gross... Baffling.

I mean, is this some kind of "cultural understanding" piece? Or what?

I'm trying to read the article but no, no stop this madness! Is this happening? A 20 year old trying to lure a 16 year old.. not across state lines, but across the bleemin' world.

The only silver lining of this is that maybe more people will realize the hypocracy and moral equivalence BS that the AP and others are trying to push.

10,

She's flattered by the Corrie comparison.

Jimzawi, a high school dropout with close-cropped hair, a two-day beard and large, dark eyes, said Katherine was willing to convert to Islam and that the pair remain in close contact, speaking to each other at least five hours a day via Internet phone calls.

Hole-e-shit!

#10 J. Lichty

The next Rachel Corrie is she.

Saint Pedo-cake?

Did you read about the part where she was supposed to bring A PINK DRESS for her engagement party?

Sorry, Abdullah, even under the "half your age plus seven" rule, she doesn't qualify.

Calling Dateline NBC- all predators all the time.

#3 jcm:

Actually, that would be quite the phone bill/internet access charge per month. You'd be spending an average of 150 hours on the phone and 300 hours with internet access.

I think this girl needs a deprogramming shrink-STAT!

Sparks flew when they corresponded, but it was his explosive vest shortcircuiting.

The latest threat to our kids, international predators.

One question:

Where the fuck were her parents?

I am sure the AP would cover the story in the same manner if a 20 year old Jew Zionist tried to marry a 16 year old from Seattle.

Katherine's parents need to stage an intervention methinks.

Primo parenting skills on display here? I dunno. Hard to tell what's going on with that family.

# 1 JWF

World's smallest violin

#23 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

One question:

Where the fuck were her parents?

She probably didn't let her romance affect her 1 hour a week "quality time" with mom and dad.

/"Quantity time" works best, moms and dads.

Well it's probably too late, but her parents have less than 2 years to get this situation straightened out.

They may want to send her to "Camp" in Southern California.

Just as Sunny and is way better than joining a cult in Jericho.

All the people asking about the parents - how many of you have 16-year old children (or older)? If you haven't gotten through to them by that age (and sometimes even if you have), there's not much you can do about them by then other than pray (I have three kids over the age of 16 - trust me on this).

This sounds like an Onion story. In fact, one could cut & paste two paragraphs from other Onion stories and it would be perfect.

Had Katherine made it to Jericho, Jimzawi said, she would have slept in his sister's bedroom, not his. He said he would have walked with her through the tree-lined streets of Jericho, and his family would have celebrated her 17th birthday together on June 21.

"At some point during our walk, I will kiss you with such passion that your knees will tremble. Then, I will scoop you up and walk with you in my arms back to our shared refugee camp hovel. At no point while carrying you will I seem tired.

"When we get to the refugee camp, I will lay you down on the bed and wash the sand off your feet with a soap and water solution. After drying your feet with a 100 percent cotton towel, I will take out a satchel filled with perfumed oils that I have personally selected for your particular feet. I will rub your feet for three hours. While I am doing so, I will say a variety of compliments specially tailored to you. Among these comments will be "Your makeup looks so fine" and "I cannot wait to taste you."

I will also tell you that you look beautiful.

It is at this point that I will freak you wild to the break of dawn. Never before will you have been sexed like I will sex you then. That is my solemn vow. You will wish we could freak nasty like that forever. Smoove, errr Jimzawi will make that wish come true. "

"When I realized she wasn't coming I felt my whole world collapse," he said. "My tears didn't stop and I couldn't sleep for three days."

"He then began screaming and firing into a busload of Israeli schoolchildren.

"Yes, I sometimes do gun people down in the name of the One True God," he noted. "But there is so much more to me."

Paleo MSM Stringers

Oh lord, what can you say except the Western losers who tolerate them/give them jobs/pay their salaries are Intolerant psychopaths

said Katherine was willing to convert to Islam

When she gets there that will pretty much be a moot point.

#32 j-damn:

Smoove Abdullah?

#23 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
you beat me to it. thats what id lke to know. where the f**k are her parents?

#32 jdamn...please give the standard "Avoid drinking or eating while reading" warning...where should I contact you regarding the new monitor you owe me?

If she had gone:

Scene: Jericho

Enter Infidiet, in jeans and iPod.

INFIDIET: Jihadio! rushes to embrace him

JIHADIO: She speaks.
Speak not again, dark demon! for thou art
As inglorious in this night, o'er my head,
As would be a JDAM missile of Satan
Unto the oppressed, long-suffering eyes
Of jihadis who mourn sorely to gaze on it
When it pierces the dark Bushitler clouds
And falls upon the bosom of Zarqawi.

INFIDIET. O Jihadio, Jihadio! wherefore art thou Jihadio?
Deny thy Prophet and refuse Allah!
etc., &c.

# 34 javems

Actually it's not. The problem is that once she 'converts to Islam' she can never leave. Remember that Sally Field movie a number of years ago - "Not without my child"? It's all true.

And the US government won't help you either. There was a story in the Wall Street Journal a couple of years ago about women who were stuck in Saudi Arabia because they married Saudi men who were in the States for college and either followed them back to Saudi Arabia or went there to visit and could not leave. The US government does NOTHING to get you out of there. Can't offend 'our friends the Saudis.'

Typically these guys all "love the same things" as their internet "friends", and their intentions are "pure"...

If I've learned nothing else from NBC, they also usually show up at their "friend"'s house naked with beer and condoms.

Here in the states, they go to jail where, in a perfect world, they meet new friends that don't have to travel so far to express their pure love...

If she makes the decision to believe this guys
lies, and she's willing to convert let her go.
Her life, her responsiblity and her consequence.
When the other women turn on her, she will realize too late the lair she's thrown herself into.
/no sympathy

#16 Writermom

Did you read about the part where she was supposed to bring A PINK DRESS for her engagement party?

I think the story said the girl asked the prospective bridegroom to bring these dresses. It wasn't his idea.

My thoughts?

At sixteen I dated a lot of guys in their twenties and because men mature more slowly than women, I don't think there is anything wrong with that, providing the 16 year old is responsible and mature. It is not neccessarily pedophilia.

OTOH- Leave your parents?!?! Drop out of school?!?! Convert to Islam?!? Travel around the world to marry someone you met on line, and in the land of honor killings!?! This is not a responsible mature 16 year old. Mature responsbile 16 year olds don't do things like that.

As for "Where are her parents?!?" comments. To that I say, "Obviously you have never raised a teenager in today's society where you can't discipline them without some social worker showing up and claiming you are being abusive and the police telling you their hands are tied because of the age of consent is below the age of your teenager. May you never have to go through that because I did and you can't do anything even if you are there."
So easy to be judgemental and blame the parents. Seems to me they are doing everything they can.

Think what will happen if this girl manages to get back over to Jericho to be with this P.O.S. How long before the romance wears off and reality sets in? Somebody should sit down with this girl and tell her what she's in for as a woman in the Islamic world. I fear for her. If she elopes with this scumbag she'll be stuck there forever. His family will kill her if she tries to come home.

#23 Kragar...great question.

Another good question would be, did that child have a computer in her bedroom? Mine is in the family room, where I can hover over my children to make sure they don't figure out how to remove the child locks.

Three-nil now.

:-)

Go to it, Ukraine.

"was pure"

Wonder what that means?

You can tell which paragraphs STEVEN GUTKIN wrote and which the arab stringer wrote.

I grew up in the middle east. And over thee years seen and know of many, many, marriages of American women to Arab, Iranian, and Afghan men.

Out of all those marriage I know of only two that worked out. In that case the man converted to Christianity, moved to the US and became an American.

The only other case of a marriage working was Queen Noor of Jordan, but I think that is an exceptional case.

For the most part the men can be charming, cosmopolitan, and romantic during the courtship. The day after the wedding they what the wife to conform to all the tradition Arab / middle eastern cultural norms.

American women just don't tolerate being "property."

Isn't she a little old for a muslim guy.

If he is 20, his betrothed should be, like, 6.

Headline:

Heartbroken 20 Year Old Palestinian Man Denied Romantic Visit with 16 Year Old Girl by Evil American Parents

"I am not a pedophile!"

#17 OR:

Sorry, Abdullah, even under the "half your age plus seven" rule, she doesn't qualify.

Ahh, the old "fifty-percent and seven" rule. I actually used that one once to explain to an insipid 19 year-old why I wouldn't go out with her.

#23 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

If this is the same girl, her mom got her a passport so the daughter could go to Canada with a friend and her family. Apparently, the mother never checked the story.

My kids never so much as stayed at a friend's for dinner without me talking to a parent. A trip without my checking would just not happen.

So, yeah, where the f*ck were the parent(s)?

Here's his website on myspace (AbdullaPsycho) and a little about himself here:

About abdullahpsycho
MyGen Profile Generator
People Call Me ABb0uDd or BB0uDDStearz, And I listen to ANYTHING that sounds good...Daft punk,The Unseen,Metallum,starfight,Arch Enemy,Black Label Society,Bloodbath,Deep Purple,Deftones,Element Eighty,Hatebreed...

#23 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

One question:

Where the fuck were her parents?

If this is the same story, she got a passport by telling her parents she was going to Canada with a friend's family. The parents drove her to the train station. When the friend's family didn't show up, the parents called the friend's family and learned there was no trip. The girl managed to get to the airport later...

Compulsory read for young teens performing extreme Myspace dating:

Fjordman: Marrying a Muslim Man? Read the Fine Print

#50 calculatorjockey

Give him a break. This was a starter wife. He'll get around to the preschooler's around wife 3 or 4.

I seriously wish a nitrogen fertilizer bomb would level the AP headquarters, then well see how cute and fuzzy islamic terrorists are.

Another good question would be, did that child have a computer in her bedroom? Mine is in the family room, where I can hover over my children to make sure they don't figure out how to remove the child lock

And, speaking from personal experience, take the damn keyboard and mouse with you when you go out and take it to bed with you at night and keep it under your pillow.

godrey

You forgot:

Be but sworn my love, and I'll no longer be a Protestant.

IIRC, "Romeo and Juliet" doesn't end happily.

#51 Lawrence Schmerel

Headline:

Heartbroken 20 Year Old Palestinian Man Denied Romantic Visit with 16 Year Old Girl by Evil American Parents

"I am not a pedophile!"

He's just emulating the profoundly immoral "prophet."

Parents? What parents. This kind of foolishness does not happen when there are parents. Bombs are not made in the bedroom when parents are involved. Collecting weapons and planning an assult on a High School does not happen when parents are involved.

There were no parents, but older friends (genetic parents)encouraged reaching out to other cultures.

Carl in Jerusalem

My kids used to treat my arrival at home in the evening like Godzilla had just stepped onto the beach. No ifs, ands, buts, or excuses were acceptable. But they are both well behaved (mostly) collage kids now and I rarely rampage anymore...

#55 ibrodsky

The parent's waited until the day of the trip to confirm who their kid was leaving the country with? What fucking idiots.

OT - In case you haven't followed the drudge link to it already, a pretty funny write up of the "yearly Kos" over at TWS

Don't misunderstand--the thousand or so conferees aren't all Deaniacs. A lot of them are just good, honest-to-God activist bloggers who like their politics progressive and their sandals with low heels. Now, see, that was a stereotype. And Kos warns the Kossacks about stereotypes. He's always getting stereotyped, in fact. The media are always trying to turn him into the leader of some creepy cult, because the media are unfair to Kossacks. Just like they are to the Moonies and the Scientologists.

Kos doesn't even like being the L. Ron Hubbard of the progressive blogosphere, which everybody just assumes he is because it's his face front and center in a Ned Lamont Democratic primary commercial against Joe Lieberman, or because he term-limits his all-star bloggers (or "frontpagers"), or because it's his name on the website, and the conference, and the tote bags, and the beanies, and the hoodies, and the organic sustainable cotton T-shirts.

I mean, sure, some cynics--I didn't meet any at YearlyKos, but I'm sure they're out there--would say this is a hype, like Internet IPOs or Vanilla Coke or Ross Perot. There are guys like Daily Standard contributor Dean Barnett who've reported that Daily Kos, which everybody assumes is growing by leaps and bounds, actually went from 23 million visitors in one month last fall to 16 million in May. There's evidence like the recent Gallup poll which shows that blog reader growth was "somewhere between nil and negative in the past year," that reading blogs ranks at the bottom of online activities, and that only 15 percent of the public reads blogs, even though there are over 40 million of them, meaning a lot of bloggers are talking to themselves. But Kos wants you to know this is a real, enduring movement not centered around his cult of personality. It's about non-hierarchical netroots, it's about "the volunteers." Just like it was in the Reform party, a vibrant, healthy organization that, even after Ross Perot left it, still dominates American politics to this day.

#32 LOL!

To what denomination does the girl belong ?
Is HE ready to CONVERT ?
Well, of course this would mean sure death for him, but if it is true love he should show it.

vxbush

I left that for you. ;-)

Hm, godfrey already covered the classics, so I'll have to go Bernstein/Sondheim. From "West Bank Story":

There's a camp for us
A "refugee" camp for us
Vests and semtex, Jew-hating fare
Wait for us, somewhere

There's a bomb for us
A nail-filled bomb for us
Bombs for jihad, with bombs to spare
Flaming hoops, hooded goons...

Somewhere!
We're not too bothered with living
It's the Jews we're not forgiving
Somewhere

Damn! PIMF. College not Collage.

Arabs urged to invest in image-building in US
By Shakir Husain, Staff Reporter

Dubai: An influential American Muslim group on Monday urged Arab businesses to invest in image-building in the US to secure their long-term interests.

"If the image of Islam and Muslims is not repaired in America, Muslim and Arab business interests will continue to be on a downward slide in the US," said Parvez Ahmad, chairman of the board of the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).

The political backlash against DP World taking over management of six key US ports was "really an issue that gets to the core of this problem," he said.

Referring to the volatile nature of politics on Capitol Hill, Ahmad said it is "very easy for one person to create the hysteria and have a backlash."

The public firestorm over DP World began after New York Democratic Senator Charles Schumer said he was against an Arab company managing US ports.

A US delegation led by CAIR officials yesterday held discussions with Al Habtoor group chairman Khalaf Al Habtoor and other businessmen in Dubai about a $50-million public relations campaign that the US group has launched in the US to change negative public perceptions about Islam.

"It is the most ambitious public relations campaign anywhere in the world that the Muslims have thought about to change perceptions about Islam," Ahmad said, calling on Arab businesses to make contributions towards the campaign that will run for five years.

[Link: www.militantislammonitor.org...]

People Call Me ABb0uDd or BB0uDDStearz

Well, people call me the Space Cowboy and the Gangster of Love.

to meet the man known on MySpace.com as Abdullah Psycho.

Ye gods. What is wrong with that childs life that she would want someone like this?

Mcgyver, out

I'll let better minds than my own work on the "Sixteen Going on Seventeen" variation, while I have lunch.

Jimzawi works in his father's business delivering goods to minimarkets and has never gotten into trouble.caught trying to molest a minor.

In MA this guy would have to register as a sex offender if convicted.

A 20-year old man goes on MySpace.com and talks a 16-year old girl into running away from home to meet him.

I missed the part in any of these articles that mentioned him talking her into this. Clearly, this wasn't good judgment on anyone's part, and there may be details we don't know. But, based on what we do know, I don't see any evidence of coercion or even seduction.

American women just don't tolerate being "property.

Any American woman (or Canadian for that matter) who marries an Arab is in for a terrible shock. And that goes for Canadian raised Arabs who marry someone from the old country. One of my son's friends was a girl raised in Canada from Arab-Egyptian stock and when she hit 16 her father decided enough was enough and he made all the arrangements for her to be sent to Egypt and have her clitorus removed and then be married off to some distant 38 year old relative of his. he was gooing to get her there on the pretence of having her visit her family there. Fortunately, she got wind of the plot and went into hiding, with us, in fear for her life beacuse the old man would have killled her for betraying his honor if he found her. She's just now married to a Canadian Muslim, very good man, from a good assimliated family, and in her second year of university. And she still has her clitorus.

My kids used to treat my arrival at home in the evening like Godzilla had just stepped onto the beach. No ifs, ands, buts, or excuses were acceptable. But they are both well behaved (mostly) collage kids now and I rarely rampage anymore...

Yeah well up here in Canada you'd be considered an emotionally abusive parent unfit to have children.

Her parent's really need to learn the rules:

love your kids? show it by beating them

How come everyone today is too much of a pussy to smack their kids around? That's what I want to know: why are parents afraid to beat their kids? When I was a kid and I screwed up, my parents beat my ass. We didn't have a conversation about it. I didn't have a "time out." In fact, I've never even once been grounded in my life. What's the point? Send your kid to his room and make him play video games and read comic books all day? Great idea, why don't you take him to a psychiatrist while you're at it so she can pull some disorder out of her ass to hide the fact that you're a bad parent?

Kids today need a good beating every now and then. If you don't beat your kids when they fall out of line, the next thing you know your son will go off and bang some dude in the ass just out of spite. You tell them to clean their room, they say "no," you smack them. It's simple; it works. Don't listen to these assholes on TV with their bullshit hippy psycho babble; if they had it their way, every child would be raised in a pastel colored room with Philip Glass pumped through the speakers 24 hours a day. Then again, it might not be all that bad because it will make your kids complacent, so it won't be as hard for them to swallow when they realize that they'll be spending the rest of their lives chained to a desk in a cubicle writing reports to make someone else rich.

The problem is that kids today think their opinions matter. By not beating your kids, they get a skewed perspective of reality where they start thinking that they have it rough and that they can get away with dying their hair and listening to Insane Clown Posse. That's where you need to come in and put the law down. To help you, the negligent parent, I've put together a guide to smacking your kids for your convenience (hint: you may want to even print this guide up and hang it on your fridge as a reminder to both you and your kids). Here are some useful techniques:

Because Islam is peace and love...and Islam has nothing against the jews...Convergence Plan: Fatah and Hamas Agree on Destroying Israel
Short of civil war, Fatah and Hamas negotiators are finding a common denominator in an effort to set up a national unity government in the Palestinian Authority. The formula: hatred of Israel. [Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

Ghana FA apologizes for Israeli flag

[Link: msn.foxsports.com...]

"It was an action out of naivety and we apologize to anyone who was offended. It will never happen again," Ghana FA spokesman Randy Abbey said.

"He was obviously unaware of the implications of what he did ... He's extremely popular in Israel and he wanted to thank the fans who traveled to see him play," Abbey said.

#73 Mcgyver 6/19/2006 10:14AM PDT

to meet the man known on MySpace.com as Abdullah Psycho.

Ye gods. What is wrong with that childs life that she would want someone like this?

Hey, at least he's honest about what he is with a moniker like that.

Now if he were AbdullahNormal, then you could be suspicious.

Reminds me of an old math joke ...

Q: What goes into 13 3 times?

A: Roman Polanski

#69 O.R

You forgot Steyn's "Sharia"...you know the tune...everyone now:

Sharia, I just got a girl for Sharia...

At a stopover in Amman, Jordan, U.S. authorities seized her passport and sent her back home.

Thank God the little quail had a stopover in Jordan. Quail is quail is quail, no matter how soulful the adult male's big brown eyes might be.

OR

LOL~

This couple is more like "Pyramus and Thisbe" from Midsummer.

PYRAMUS: O grim lookt night, o night with hue so blacke,
O night, which ever art, when day is not!
O night! O night! Alacke, alacke, alacke!
I feare my Thisbe's promise is forgot.
And thou o wall, thou sweet and lovely wall,
That stands between her father's ground and mine,
Thou wall, o Wall, o sweet and lovely wall,
Shew me thy chinke, to blinke through with mine eye.
Thankes courteous wall. Love shield thee well for this.
But what see I? No Thisbe doe I see!
O wicked wall! through whom I see no blisse,
Curst be thy stones for thus deceiving mee!

Islam is Islam. It does not know borders,Islam in America is the same as Islam in Saudi Arabia. CAIR must be doing a very good job if people cant see this.

First of all the girl DID go to Canada - and headed for the med east from there. In the reports I saw on television there was no father - just one mother completely freaked who swore she'd never have a computer in her house again - so I doubt there's a five-hour daily internet chat going on.

gawd her family has be to sick with fear.

#83 JWF

Uhh..what's the difference exactly between AbdullahNormal and AbdullahPsycho?

It must be very nuanced-or I just can't get at the common denominator.

At sixteen I dated a lot of guys in their twenties and because men mature more slowly than women, I don't think there is anything wrong with that, providing the 16 year old is responsible and mature. It is not neccessarily pedophilia.

No, but it is statutory rape in most places. Are you from Arkansas or something?

Sheesh.

Living in the Twilight Zone is starting to nauseate me.

Unearthed from his comments section, dated 6/14:

Hi baby! I MISS U! I swear you are so adorable. I love you and noone will change that ever. You are my hero baby, ..my life and i will always be here for you. You are my husband and no matter what ppl say nothing will change that. You are My habibi, ..and u will aways be my habibi. I love you so much...I cant wait to be with you and to hold your hand and to whisper in your ears that i love you, ...I want to be with you forever and ever, .I love u, .. MWAH

Honey, you're in for one hell of a surprise if you do end up with this guy. The life of an Islamic woman doesn't tend to be all fluffly kitties and hearts and roses.

@44 Judith
My niece tried that crap with her mum. She got her bluff called.
I've got a granddaughter living on the streets right now because she thought her actions were
without consequence. She tried the same crap, calling CPS on her parents, and nearly caused them to lose the younger daughter. After years of appeasement to this girl, years of therapy and money chasing after her, she's finally got her wish. Street meet feet.

"Large, dark eyes," like a doe. Oh, well, he must be sensitive and caring.

Sarc off

The reality is, most child molestors love children, and think they are doing what is best for children. That does not at all matter. It doesn't matter if he is tender hearted. He is a bad guy.

He is very sad at losing access to US citizenship, her family estate and his conjugal rights. It is not like brides are falling all over the place for delivery boys in the WB.

He had struck GOLD!.

One of the things few dwell on in their analysis of Islam is human biology and this particular religion. For every 100 pregnancies, there are 51% females and 49% males. You learned that in biology. OK now in Islam, if even 10% of the men have more than one wife, and the percentage is far higher, then at leat 10% of the male population are SOL on finding a bride.

This does many things- it produces lots of babies, it makes wars of conquest necessary to find women for the shortchanged 10% and it creates high levels of rape and incest; homosexual trysts, rarely admitted to in the Arab world, also become a societal outlet for sexual gratification.

dirka dirka Muhammed Jihad. It's the Hadji Guy!

#45

I've met a couple (and heard more stories) about western women that fall for men in repressive countries. There seems to be 2 different, but common themes (usually one or the other): Either the woman (girl) in question has poor self esteem and 'issues' or the man is very suave and attentive when dating - gifts, heaping praise, acting like a gentlemen, etc.

After the wedding, the man tends to fall into a more "traditional" role. Happens in the west as well, but here it usually means the guy spends the weekend on the couch in his boxers watching sports.

Does anyone out there besides me remember the
case where a Palestinian in Europe seduced some lonely stupid Caucasian girl and conned her into a trip to Israel on El Al on some pretext?

Of course EL Al security found the time bomb that he secretly hid in her luggage.

Finding useful fools to use as tools is a time-honored strategy.

#91 J-Damn
I'm from Arkansas, are you trying to piss me off?

#86 Cattt

That Mom better THANK THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS out of the American officials in Jordan forgoodnesssake.

#93 Sil

Holy crap...their love story is still out there, for all the world to see?

Someone should take this juvenile skank, strap her to a chair, tape her eyelids open and make her watch "Not Without My Daughter" as many times as it takes to sink in.

I've got a granddaughter living on the streets right now because she thought her actions were
without consequence

Well all those damn useless social workers and counselors turned out to be quite a weapon when it was time to protect that friend of my son. So it wasn't all bad in the end.

We went through that hell with our oldest but he came around eventually and is now doing well. He has a full time job, he's a good dad and husband. But when your teenager goes wild there really is very little you can do but hang in there and pray they survive until their brain matures enough to kick in. Pray a whole lot.

#77 Judith

And she still has her clitorus.

Out here all we have is Toys R Us.

#93 Sil 6/19/2006 10:23AM PDT
Unearthed from his comments section, dated 6/14:

Hi baby! I MISS U! I swear you are so adorable. I love you and noone will change that ever. You are my hero baby, ..my life and i will always be here for you. You are my husband and no matter what ppl say nothing will change that. You are My habibi, ..and u will aways be my habibi. I love you so much...I cant wait to be with you and to hold your hand and to whisper in your ears that i love you, ...I want to be with you forever and ever, .I love u, .. MWAH

Bllleccch! Ewww! Gawwwd! Ick!

80 Kragar,

Hilarious.

Does the same apply to LLL's?

#99 funkyfantom

Yes-of course. She was actually pregnant with the terror-plotter's child, and had been sent ahead of him, to go meet the family before. IIRC she was Irish. I'll see if I can find a link.

#82 MGlazer -

Thanks for that. Did you notice that the Saudis are getting stomped by Ukraine? And then the 2nd reconquista happens - Spain vs. Tunisia.

Not buying that her parents are not responsible. This is all about the lack of parenting, or moonbat parenting. Moonbats produce moonbats.

No parent that had taught their kids some basic values and morality would see their Christian kid even think about converting to a rock-worshiping horror of a religion. Let alone skipping out of the country on a passport.

What the hell kind of oversight is that? This is the parents of Kliebold and Harris, unaware, uninvolved, and utterly clueless about the behavior of their kids, or how to control it. Bet the mom was her daughter's "best friend." If that dad was even worth a shit, he would be inquiring of finding some thugs in Palestine that would break the typing fingers of this asshole, the only debate would be about price.

And leave the message that next time you contact my daughter it is your neck.

Bomber Who Sent Pregnant Irish Girlfriend To Blow Up El Al Plane Too Dangerous To Release:

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

#40 Carl in Jerusalem

The problem is that once she 'converts to Islam' she can never leave.

That was what I was getting at. When, and if, she gets there her wishes won't really matter.

Her aprents ought to make her "pretend" convert then give her a good taste of what arranged marriages are like, how hot it is in that abayya, how constrained she is when she can't leave the house w/o a man escort, and so on.

Does she like pork?
Never again.

Is she opinionated?
Forget about it!

Can she cook?
Better learn.

Is she obedient without complaint or question?
Better start.

And so on...

Speaking of unfit, the people making the decisions of determining that monkey bars, slides and swing sets are dangerous to kids on playgrounds are unfit to breed or have contact with any kids. Assuming you can raise your kids in a fluffed up pillow room just ensures they will be bonified victims of every scam, ruse and hardship that adult life will throw at them.
Making future kids unfit for societal responsiblities.
/feh!

No parent that had taught their kids some basic values and morality would see their Christian kid even think about converting to a rock-worshiping horror of a religion.

Well good luck to you with that when your kids reach that magic age. You are going to be in for some mighty big surprizes.

#101 WriterMom

I found that tucked in between all the "d00d, fight the system" and "u n kath belong 2gethr - thay shuld lay off u" comments on his MySpace page.

"We love the same things, the same songs and we have similar dreams. I fell in love with her because she is innocent and goodhearted. We found ourselves as soul mates,"

One wonders why Jimzawi couldn't find all the above in his own land. Esp. the "innocence" and "goodheartedness", which I'm sure many a devout West Bank Muslimah would admit to having, not to mention sharing the same language, culture, religion, and experiences upon which "soul mates" usually find their common ground.

114 Judith

This one knows all. Don't bother.

Those comments really are GROOOSSS.

Ya habibi, my LITTLE AMERICAN CASH COW SHWARMA GIRL-I luvU...can't wait to pour a hijab on your flowing lady locks and GET AT YER DOWRY.

HUG HUG KISS KISS, so happy-it's so GR-8 you are already learning about the prophet Mohammad PBUH, little dudette.

/glech

#100 maddogg 6/19/2006 10:26AM PDT
#91 J-Damn
I'm from Arkansas, are you trying to piss me off?

I knew someone would pipe up.

Well, "Maddogg", first let me thank you for the Clintons.

2nd, what's the age of consent in your state?

How much you want to bet this girl was propagandized in school into believing the Palis were some harmless peace-loving peeps?

#115 sil

Like I said GLECCCHHH...

But, seriously-that's a real gem! Charles-if you're reading, maybe you should update? Too funny.

How much you want to bet this girl was propagandized in school into believing the Palis were some harmless peace-lo

Or that Sharia law is actually good for women?

#76 Just My View

I'm usually pretty high on the list of posters here who want to see the evidence before forming an opinion - but I'm having a hard time conjuring any scenario which would exonerate Abdullah. Any ideas?

#120 JWF

Well she is from Michigan, right? Isn't that chock full of Muslims? Home of the first American-based public, and LOUD call to prayer?

#114 Judith

Well good luck to you with that when your kids reach that magic age. You are going to be in for some mighty big surprizes.

I'm impressed, too, that people are so confident they can control their children's behavior once the children are old enough to move around the world on their own.

Do you folks think, for instance, that all the underage drinking in our society is done by kids whose parents were neglectful cretins? How about irresponsible driving? How about illegal drug use? How about date rape?

This girl's bad judgment may have been more extreme than what some other kids do, but it's not really out of the ballpark. Not too long ago, there was an LGFer online saying that his daughter appeared to have run away to join an older man. Don't know if it turned out that that really happened and, if so, what the eventual outcome was, but these circumstances aren't unique. Did you obey the law and your parents all the time until you were 21?

These things all go on, and plenty of them go on in middle-class, two-parent families. Of course, responsible parenting makes a difference, but lots of other things matter too.

As for the grandmother above who made such a compassionate statement about her grandchild living on the street, I can only say . . . well, no, I can't say it.

I tried accessing her page, but it's set to "private." I can only imagine what she's posting there. However, there IS this tidbit publically available:

"i love abdullah"

Female
14 years old
Small Town, MICHIGAN
United States

How long has MySpace been around? Long enough for this to be a two-year-old description, or is this much nastier than first thought?

Actually, re Arkansas, marriage laws vary widely from state to state, but by and large, one either must have parental permission or have a really good reason that will convince a judge to let you marry. In Arkansas, if you are under 18, both parents must consent.

Just as an example, a pregnant underage girl in Maryland can petition to the Orphan's Court to marry without parental consent. It's still up to the judge whether to waive parental consent in such cases.

20 year old SJM (single Jihadist Male)seeks pubescent minor.I enjoy throwing rocks at IDF infedels and staging massacres on the beach.
Serious dowries only.

114 Judith

Well good luck to you with that when your kids reach that magic age. You are going to be in for some mighty big surprizes.

My kids are grown, they avoided the bullshit teenage rebellion years, I helped them. You teach kids young, when they reach the age where peer pressure and hormones kick in, you better have something instilled in them stronger than all of that and the pull of the world.

> close-cropped hair, a two-day beard and large, dark eyes,
Geez, it sounds like the reporter Mohammed Daraghmeh may have the hots for the Palestinian man too.

#123 jamgarr

I'm usually pretty high on the list of posters here who want to see the evidence before forming an opinion - but I'm having a hard time conjuring any scenario which would exonerate Abdullah. Any ideas?

I just didn't see any evidence in any of the articles linked to here--either the one Charles drew on or any of those that other people linked to--that she was coerced in any way.

In fact, what limited evidence we have suggests that she was completely willing to go. Clearly, both she and the guy are very immature, but that doesn't make him a villain.

Well J-Damn
The age of consent in Arkansas is 18 yoa. Just like everywhere else.

As far as the Clintons are concerned, your real fuckin welcome. Now, kiss my ass.

O Jihadio, Jihadio! wherefore art thou Jihadio

That's brilliant

I checked out hois My Space excuse for a website... I can't believe how many people are actually supporting him!

There's a pretty sick youth culture out there. If these kids (and their parents) don't wake up soon, the Marxists & Islamists will have won.

Earth2Moonbat 117

114 Judith

This one knows all. Don't bother.

What another whiney parent that could not instill values in their own kids and now blames society, the weather, hormones, peer pressure? What? Either you instill character into your kids or you don't, it doesn't fall out of the sky. Or be a liberal and be a victim, things just happen all of their own accord.

#125 JustMyView
#114 Judith

I like to think of young teen children as India rubber balls, bouncing merrily and with abandon against everything, while their guardians and loved ones try to teach them, give them the chance to learn to be independent, and keep them from hurting themselves all at the same time.

There is nothing bouncier than a full classroom in a junior high school. Nothing.

126 Sil

How long has MySpace been around? Long enough for this to be a two-year-old description, or is this much nastier than first thought?

I don't know how long it's been around, but it's the devil as far as I'm concerned. We have one client who created a profile and posted there to sell drugs. We have another client who ruined her civil case by the content of what she posted there ("I like to smoke blunts, hang with the boyz and drink many beerz, IIRC").

Not to mention the pervs who troll the site for vulnerable kids to prey on.

My niece merely expressed an interest in it and my brother took the computer out of the den and placed it in the middle of the family room/kitchen area.

#125 JustMyView

Not too long ago, there was an LGFer online saying that his daughter appeared to have run away to join an older man. Don't know if it turned out that that really happened and, if so, what the eventual outcome was, but these circumstances aren't uniqu

that was savage_nation and he did find her (she's his stepdaughter actually)

I was a wild kid - ran away on a regular basis. It got so that my Dad actually considered making me a ward of the state. But I turned out ok - it was unmitigated hell for my parents tho...who, btw, were excellent parents.

#114 Judith

Well good luck to you with that when your kids reach that magic age. You are going to be in for some mighty big surprizes.

Yep. It's called rebelling. It's a phase most kids go through.

We don't know enough about this case to know whether the parents deserve blame. As children grow up, they start testing their ability to make their own decisions.

#80 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Love your kids? show it by beating them

My kids are well-behaved and we never had to use physical violence.

Besides, how is hurting a child going to teach them anything worth knowing?

And I wouldn't recommend giving state bureaucrats excuses for taking custody of your children.

#131 Just My View

I disagree. If he knew she was coming (it was reported that he sent her the ticket) he bears a large part of the responsibility for her leaving her family, whether you want to call it coersion or not.

;-)
another theory...
MyGreenCard.com

#136 Cattt

I like to think of young teen children as India rubber balls, bouncing merrily and with abandon against everything, while their guardians and loved ones try to teach them, give them the chance to learn to be independent, and keep them from hurting themselves all at the same time.

I like this image. Certainly most parents want to protect their children, while, at the same time, they give them enough responsibility to help them grow into adults. It's not hard to see how sometimes the balance gets off. Even in a reasonably safe room, there are likely to be windows that one of those "bouncing balls" might crash through.

I don't mean to be dismissing the issue of parental responsibility here. Obviously, attentive, engaged parents are very important. But kids can still do some pretty amazing things.

139 ibrodsky

We don't know enough about this case to know whether the parents deserve blame.

Correct. My only question is how did she have the money to buy an airplane ticked to Israel. Letting a 16-yo have that kind of money is asking for it. Aside from that, I'm going to reserve judgement.

Can't horny men satisfy their needs without importing women? American men do it with Asians and Russians, and it looks like Palestinians (well, one, at least) do their romantic hunting through Myspace.Com.

I think it's kind of sick, no matter the case. Honestly, I don't find this any stranger than the crap going on here every day with desperate, horny, American men. There's wack-jobs trolling for underage girls all day long.

The fact the girl is 16 only underscores "young and stupid". She hasn't exactly cornered the market on running away, and going above and beyond, to be with her Man (I hear Tammy Wynette warming up in the background).

Stupid people shouldn't breed, young women should use better judgment, and horny men all over the world should keep their dick in their pants. Alas, it'll never happen.

It's all about the humping.

Way OT:

Banal Algore propaganda film is bombing at the box office.

Averaged $1324 per theater Friday.

Must be packing them in.

143 Earth2moonbat

Hi!

Letting a 16-yo have that kind of money is asking for it.

Have you seen a 16-yo's wardrobe/accessories lately? Coach bags, designer sunglasses, $300 designer jeans are all in a day's work...

#140 jamgarr

I disagree. If he knew she was coming (it was reported that he sent her the ticket) he bears a large part of the responsibility for her leaving her family, whether you want to call it coersion or not.

Ok, fine. Think what you want, but I don't want to call it coersion . . . or even coercion.

Where, by the way, was it reported that he paid for her ticket?

Forgive me for saying this (and I'm sure that this will make me mucho unpopular here), but a 16 year-old dating a 20-year old isn't exactly setting my hair on fire. I knew a lot of sophomore girls at my high school who were dating college freshman (usually because they started dating when they were high-shool freshman and seniors, respectively).

This story is only interesting because of the ethnic and political angles. The age thing is a non-story here.

The US is in a class if its own by considering 16-year-olds as sexual children. In Canada it's legal and commonplace for 20-year-old men to date 16-year-old women. It's silly to make such a big deal about this. Can you really not believe that a young man could fall in love with a 16-year old girl? Have you not lived? The worst of it is that it feeds into your usually undeserved reputation for picking on muslims. I certainly can't see you getting all in a tizzy about the thousands of similar relationships in Canada and Europe. Get some sleep Charles!

#147 Just My View

I'll get back to you on the ticket purchase report. But, in the meantime, Kiss MY Ass.

148 Lizard by the Bay

This isn't "dating". This is running away, to become part of a harem. Slight difference.

#149 cappy

So-it would be fine with you if your 16 year old daughter ran away to Jericho in order to convert to Islam and marry someone she met on the innernut?

That's KEWL!

Wow! Nothing but excuses here. I guess when it comes to raising kids, one way is as good as the other. What a croc! This is the reason why families are important, why dads are important. Your kids will rebel to the degree you allow. It is your expectations that help create it, like the teenage rebellion years is unavoidable. Yet that is a recent societal phenomena, it did not exist in human history in the past.

Only modern life has created a age group that people can do what they want, when they want on their parents dime. In traditional Jewish society, when a boy was twelve, he put away his toys, was put totally under his dad, and was considered a man in everything but physical strength.

No such thing as 7 years of rebellion, partying, defying parents or authority. We get what we allow and expect. Period. Stop the whining. These parents are responsible for the character of their daughter, she is responsible for the utter wreck she will now make of her life...and that is guaranteed, it is already too late.

She just barely missed the bullet on this one, but will soon be standing in front of some other train.

And if your own kids are, or have, made shipwreck of their live, quit pretending society, peers, drugs, T.V. or something else is responsible. Unless they had some mental condition, or chemical imbalance, it was YOU, you are responsible, hard as that is to take, get some damn honesty here.

Tizzy tizzy tizzy

Anti Muslim tizzy...giggle giggle giggle..

theheat,

In the case of American men and either Russian or Asian women,
I don't necessarily have a problem with that, unless of course
they're buying teenagers or some such offense. Besides, when probably half the women in this country are afflicted with some type of moonbattery, going outside the country may be a good idea.

Come to think of it, I'd probably opt for a nice woman with a language barrier than I would some BDS-inflicted narcissist.

In this case, this girl would be doomed from the outset.

#151 E2m

This isn't "dating". This is running away, to become part of a harem. Slight difference.

I guess missed the info re his other wives, along w/ the info saying that she was coerced.

#151 E2M

This isn't "dating". This is running away, to become part of a harem. Slight difference.

I agree, which is why I still admit that the ethnic and political angles of the story make it interesting. But the relative ages do not.

ibrodsky 139

My kids are well-behaved and we never had to use physical violence.

Besides, how is hurting a child going to teach them anything worth knowing?

Straight out of the liberal handbook.

Spanking (rarely and judiciously) is NOT physical violence. It is a part of discipline. If your kid knows you have some boundary in discipline that you will not cross (on their behalf), then THEY will describe the boundaries of their behavior, not you.

And physical violence is what your kid will do to others if he does not learn to control his emotions, temper, desires.

Even if it just comes out as being mean to their spouse or kicking the dog, or pissing of waitresses, or servants...just because they can.

Not spanking your kids (if they needed it) says everything about the limits to your love and self-sacrifice. Honestly, most people that talk this way or have accepted this liberal nostrum, simply are afraid of their children's temporary anger.

#147 Just My View

The only thing I find now (with my admittedly mediocre search skills) is a report from WZZM13 out of Michigan indicating that he paid for the ticket. I know I heard a report that he sent her the ticket but can't find a reference now. And BTW, kiss my ass.

Kinda interesting how all we ever hear about in the media is the "plight" of the "Palestinian people".

Meanwhile, obviously many of them have the luxury like this jerk to surf the Internet for ten-hours a day.

I wish the media would spend more time focusing on people with some real "plight" problems, like in Darfur.

#153 jehu

Only modern life has created a age group that people can do what they want, when they want on their parents dime. In traditional Jewish society, when a boy was twelve, he put away his toys, was put totally under his dad, and was considered a man in everything but physical strength.

And I know people who were raised in orthodox homes and once they were old enough to move out, they promptly adopted a completely different lifestyle.

I agree with everyone who argues that parents are important and should be involved in transmitting the right values and knowledge to their children.

But children are adults in training... you can't force them to live exactly as you want once they're on their own. You can only do your best.

That's why it's most important to set a good example and make sure they know about life's pitfalls. But they have to make some mistakes along the way to learn. You just hope that you have imparted enough wisdom that they limit their experimenting to the small stuff.

Rebellion is not necessarily a get-thru stage; some folks wind up with their development arrested perpetually in this stage. Some do not waste time with it at all.

Jehu-talk to me again when you've had three or four kids get to age 30 and all of them are married (one time only) holding down full time jobs, and never once gave you a bad time as a teenager.

It is always SO much easier to raise other people's kids while living in some mythical good old days world.

FWIW:

Authorities believe he paid for the plane ticket for the girl who turns 17 next week.

A week ago Sunday, Lester attempted to leave from a bus station, but her mother was suspicious. Her mother found out the plan to go to Canada was false. Last Monday Katherine ran away with her passport.

Thursday the FBI tracked her flight and greeted her when she de-planed in Jordan. Late Friday night she landed at Flint's Bishop International Airport.

We e-mailed this man's myspace.com account and we received a reply back with a cell phone number. We called that number and were told that we were talking to Abdullah, the man Katherine traveled to meet.

At this point, the FBI won't confirm that it was in fact him, although, it does want a copy of the tape.

Here's what the caller told us. He says he's twenty years old and a wealthy businessman. He says Katherine was the one who pursued him, telling him she liked his picture on-line.

They started e-mailing each other and eventually fell in love. He says it took a lot of convincing. But he says she talked to his mom over the phone, met his dad who he says lives in Michigan, and then sent her money for a plane ticket.

When I was twenty-none,
it was a very good year
It was a very good year for kuffar girls
I fished on the Net
But I got caught by Shin Bet
And then it came undone
When I was twenty-none

#153 jehu

I think there's something to what you say, but I grew up watching wonderful families, in which one kid, for no apparent reason, went bad. It had nothing to do with parenting, what the parents expected or allowed.

Maybe parents are too permissive. However, with the best will in the world, and the best discipline and loving overwatch, bad things happen.

This girl is presently an idiot. She's in the grip of romantic nonsense, playing to an excited audience of one. If her family can keep her in the US for another six months, all of this will fade away.

If they oppose her too much, they'll end up feeding the fantasy of romantic persecution, and "our love is beyond their understanding."

#148 Lizard btb:

but a 16 year-old dating a 20-year old isn't exactly setting my hair on fire

Yeah, actually, I tend to agree. For me personally, at age 20 I'd have balked at dating a 16 year old, but it's not exactly unheard of.

I think Charles' point here is... why is this news, and why the softly-softly treatment? Because he's a Pali "victim", that's why.

Perhaps the best thing to do is keep hammering away at the "he's 20 years old, a high school drop out, who works as a delivery boy, and spends 10 hours a day on the internet. What kind of life do you think you're going to have? Broke, bored and unboinked."

Rette Dich, Tristan!

Bwahahaha.

158 jehu

Straight out of the liberal handbook.

Spanking (rarely and judiciously) is NOT physical violence. It is a part of discipline. If your kid knows you have some boundary in discipline that you will not cross (on their behalf), then THEY will describe the boundaries of their behavior, not you.

And physical violence is what your kid will do to others if he does not learn to control his emotions, temper, desires.

Nonsense. We are conservative. Our conservative friends and relatives don't spank their children, either.

Spanking is physical violence. If it doesn't hurt, what is the point? And how do you ensure that a "spanking" does not become a "beating"? I could argue that "spanking" is a close cousin to sharia. How is an adult hitting a child fair? If the child is naturally violent, he/she has probably been raised improperly for some time. One of the first things our children learned is that you don't hit anyone except in self-defense.

Physical violence is what your kid will do to others if they are taught that the proper response to bad behavior is... physical violence.

Most of the parents I see spanking their children are uneducated and/or poor. It's one thing to use force to stop a child who is doing something wrong. It's another to hit them as punishment. Children can be taught that bad behavior has consequences by taking away privileges--TV, treats, presents/activities they want, etc.

ibrodsky 161

But children are adults in training... you can't force them to live exactly as you want once they're on their own. You can only do your best.

That's why it's most important to set a good example and make sure they know about life's pitfalls. But they have to make some mistakes along the way to learn. You just hope that you have imparted enough wisdom that they limit their experimenting to the small stuff.

But of course, you are not raising automatons. And nothing you do will extinguish their free will, short of making them Muslims. But if you are good parents, with recognizable and good morals and you live by them, not just preach them.

And you have a consistent disciplined home life (not rigid), I would be pretty suprised if the kids did not always return to center around those values. We are not talking about some little rebellion here, I am not talking about putting some Jim Beam in the church picnic punch bowl. I am talking about actions that are life destroying, like this girl in the story.

You don't even have to be particularly religious for the above to work.

#149 Cappy

They weren't holding hands and pitching woo. He enticed her to go halfway around the world.

It does not appear that you have a daughter.

I am betting he is MUCH older than 20. We only have his say so. He is a predator, plain and simple.

jehu, does all of that self-righteousness get heavy sometimes? I mean, that must weigh a TON.

Sometimes, people do ALL the right things, and shit happens. My parents were pretty damned near perfect, and I dated a druggie loser my senior year of high school and freshman year of college who could have destroyed my life if I hadn't gotten more mature pretty quickly when I did.

I'd watch out for karma there, buddy.

HOW CAN THEY BE MARRIED? THEY ARN'T EVEN COUSINS!

profuse vomit

I am off to buy a new keyboard!

I agree with a few others ^^^up there.

The story is not that 16 year olds have sex-or think about it, or that Abdullahs who are 20 do it or think about it.

The story is Pali victim, once again boo hooo and how the hell the girl managed to pull this off and all the accompanying parental involvement issues.

Also-"grooming" I believe is an issue.

#170 ibrodsky

It's one thing to use force to stop a child who is doing something wrong. It's another to hit them as punishment. Children can be taught that bad behavior has consequences by taking away privileges--TV, treats, presents/activities they want, etc.

The American Academy of Pediatrics agrees with you.

#174 lazytart

Hi there! Hope all is well with you.

#175 M.R

LOLOLOLOL!

Upon hearing the news, our star-crossed lover retreated to his father's house, closed his bedroom door, opened the casement of his window, and, looking out on a crescent moon, poured forth:

Muß immer der Morgen wiederkommen?
Endet nie des Irrdischen Gewalt?
Unselige Geschäftigkeit verzehrt
Den himmlischen Anflug der Nacht?
Wird nie der Liebe geheimes Opfer
Ewig brennen?

The plaint of the unrequited.

/with violin section from Smith College

#139 Ibrodaky

My police officer/boxer father hit me with a short right hand that traveled all of eight inches and bounced off my chin when I laughed at his command to do something when I was thirteen.

Without doubt it was the greatest thing he ever did for my wild ass as I knew immediatly, well after the sparks subsided, that I never wanted to eat another one of those for the rest of my life.

I say this with all heartfelt sincerity.

Thanks Dad. I love you.

Katherine was willing to convert to Islam

she must be stupid, or the islamofascist shill must be lying.

#181 Necklace of Shoes

My police officer/boxer father hit me with a short right hand that traveled all of eight inches and bounced off my chin when I laughed at his command to do something when I was thirteen.

Without doubt it was the greatest thing he ever did for my wild ass as I knew immediatly, well after the sparks subsided, that I never wanted to eat another one of those for the rest of my life.

I say this with all heartfelt sincerity.

Thanks Dad. I love you.

I agree with you!

Come on folks. You are extrapolating too much about the quality of parenting in this case.

If someone sends a kid a plane ticket and they have a passport, how hard is it for the kid to get to the airport and leave the country? After you strip away all the sensationalism, the logistics in this case are no more complicated then going to a party your parents do not know about or the underage purchase of alcohol.

Maybe the parents are idiots... but you cannot rationally come to that conclusion with the evidence so far.

At least they are refusing interviews and taken their kid out of the spotlight to deal with this issue. That fact alone tells me they are a lot smarter then other folks who would be attracted to the Klieg lights like publicity hungry moths. I am sure Katie and Oprah have already made an effort to get these folks on their shows.

#180 godfrey:

He then added:

Frisch weht der Wind
Der Palästinensische Heimat zu
Mein Miciganisch Kind,
Wo weilest du?

Whoops, "Michiganisch"

OR

German, too? One good Sturm deserves another:

Dem Land das Tristan meint, der Sonne Licht nicht Scheint.

A good description of the West Bank, in a manner of speaking.

Those who haven't read it yet might want to look at the story LC LaWedgie linked to.

As it reports, this girl was a straight-A student, a member of the National Honor Society, and a high school volleyball player. If you knew only those facts, would you be hammering her parents?

***Note that this story was published almost a week before the one Charles linked to and the writer did not interview the guy. In the more recent story, the reporters met the guy. We can't judge the accuracy of either story, but it seems more likely that the reporters who interviewed him are more accurate about his age than the Michigan police who say only that the guy was "believed to be" 25. Note too that the same story reports an incident in which a 25-year-old guy from Indiana was caught when he was on his way to "pick up" a 12-year-old in Michigan. Maybe we should worry about that girl instead.

#181 NoS

But according to ibrodsky, your family was uneducated and poor. Therefore you are screwed up for life, regardless of how things turned out in reality.

(Wow, I can't believe how tolerant people are around here, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside).

ibrodsky 170

Nonsense. We are conservative. Our conservative friends and relatives don't spank their children, either.

Strangely, I doubt they are any sort of conservative I would recognize.

Spanking is physical violence. If it doesn't hurt, what is the point? And how do you ensure that a "spanking" does not become a "beating"?

If you cannot determine that yourself, no amount of education will suffice either.

I could argue that "spanking" is a close cousin to sharia. How is an adult hitting a child fair? If the child is naturally violent, he/she has probably been raised improperly for some time. One of the first things our children learned is that you don't hit anyone except in self-defense.

Here is where I am suspicious of your definition of conservative, since "fair," is a fundamental foundation stone of liberal philosophy, whereas what is "righteous," is more to the heart of conservative philosophy.

Physical violence is what your kid will do to others if they are taught that the proper response to bad behavior is... physical violence.

This is inverted...you are teaching them that bad behavior brings consequences, and one of those consequences is immediate and personal pain, no matter how they wheddle and plead for "some other," punishment. You hit your sister, dad says? "Then you will get your ass whipped by somepone that is as stronger than you as you were to your sister." Or did junior just send his sister to her room without supper?

Most of the parents I see spanking their children are uneducated and/or poor.

You live next to a trailer park, or is this just another sterotype fresh from the MSM?

It's one thing to use force to stop a child who is doing something wrong. It's another to hit them as punishment.

What's the difference except the time span? Are kids dogs and can only understand a whack with the newspaper right after dumping on the living room carpet?

Children can be taught that bad behavior has consequences by taking away privileges--TV, treats, presents/activities they want, etc.

The are also taught that Dad and Mom, are more worried about Jr's feelings and the sanctimonious judgement of a liberal society, than in the actual character of the kid. They know your limits...they will go beyond them...always.

There is something effiminite in a society that allows the individual freedom to harm others, blanches at capital punishment, yet is squimish about a judicious swat on the ass to their precious little darlings. The pussification of America continues apace.

#190 Incanus

Well I was uneducated enough to laugh in range of the short right. I got real smart real quick.

#182 kafir

Katherine was willing to convert to Islam

she must be stupid, or the islamofascist shill must be lying.

He wasn't lying. She probably learned from one of her union (commie), multiculturalist (America and Christain hating), hippy crunchy-granola high school teachers that Islam is a beautiful religion of peace that treats women better than horrible Westerners do, and she just couldn't wait to jump on that train.

OR

Abdullah was so looking forward to changing the words to Schubert's tune, from

Dein ist mein Herz! Dein ist mein Herz! Und soll es ewig bleiben.

to

Ihr Herz ist meins! Ihr Herz ist meins! Und soll es ewig bleiben.

In so mangled a state, perhaps it would have come to him naturally.

#192 savage_nation

She also got on Depo Provera if anyone cares to know that.

Hmmm, does that say anything about your confidence in the effectiveness of "assbeating" as a form of discipline? Why does she need birth control is she's going to be staying home watching the Disney Channel from now on?

Jehu:

With a little creativity I can cause a lot more "pain" with a non-corporal punishment. A few days ago I punished my daughter by putting her in here room where she watched her friends play in the street for a few hours. Given a choice, she would have gladly taken a few whacks across the bottom.

If you can get information from Jihadi Joe without a single blow you can sure as hell get your point across to a six year old.

And for the record, listening to her cry when you know she wants to be outside with her friends on the last day of school is much harder then inflicting 5 lashes with a switch.

Corporal punishment is often the lazy way out.

Corporal punishment is often the lazy way out.

#196

Let's just say that she needs to pay the consequences, not a child.

#193 NoS

Sounds a little like my dad! Of course I am poor and uneducated as well ;-)

I think ibrodsky should put away the broad brush for a while.

As it reports, this girl was a straight-A student, a member of the National Honor Society, and a high school volleyball player. If you knew only those facts, would you be hammering her parents?

Based on this, I'm going to do some wild (perhaps mean) extrapolation with absolutely no evidence. Based on the above, she was an ugly chick who none of the boys paid attention to. She was deeply book-smart but real-world stupid. And her two choices for ever getting laid were:
a. Go lesbo
b. Find and Islamist to make her his property.

Hey, my theories are as good as anyone's on this board right now. :-)

#130

LMAO!

lazytart 174

jehu, does all of that self-righteousness get heavy sometimes? I mean, that must weigh a TON.

Anyone that stands for Biblical morality MUST be self-righteouss, how else can a secular world reject obvously sound and proven teachings regarding human behavior? Inventing every wild-ass, humanity-killing screed as a substitute?

Sometimes, people do ALL the right things, and shit happens. My parents were pretty damned near perfect, and I dated a druggie loser my senior year of high school and freshman year of college who could have destroyed my life if I hadn't gotten more mature pretty quickly when I did.

And you did this miraculous turn around how? Because maybe your "perfect parents," put something in you that made the alarm bells go off before you destroyed your life, produced kids and destroyed them? So you chide me on the teachings that saved your ass eventually? You still have some things to learn.

#202 jehu

No, it's your self-righteous and condemnatory attitude that we're finding eyebrow-raising.

Remember the difference between righteousness and self-righteousness?

#199 Incanus

I am a childless man so don't really have much to say on child rearing circa 2006. But I understood the message when I was thirteen loud and clear.

I turned out so screwy I wound working for an Inertial Guidance firm for the last 18 years. One of our's got Zarqawi last week.

Thanks again Dad!

204 Dianna

Do as you wish, but that one's on my GAZE list.

From the top:

Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks

At least 2 out of 4. #s 2 and 4, to be precise.

#197 jester6 -

With a little creativity I can cause a lot more "pain"

Yup, now, you show me which one is more loving... a whack or creative torture.

#178 JustMyView -
Point of reference: When did the Society of Pediatrics begin to give a damn about anything but themselves vs. your kids?

jester 6

With a little creativity I can cause a lot more "pain" with a non-corporal punishment. A few days ago I punished my daughter by putting her in here room where she watched her friends play in the street for a few hours. Given a choice, she would have gladly taken a few whacks across the bottom.

If you can get information from Jihadi Joe without a single blow you can sure as hell get your point across to a six year old.

And for the record, listening to her cry when you know she wants to be outside with her friends on the last day of school is much harder then inflicting 5 lashes with a switch.

Then who was being cruel? Why not get it the hell over with? What is the fetish among modern parents to do EVERYTHING except spank their kids. This is not about the kids, it is about YOU and how you feel. It hurts you and you won't do that. Hurts your image of yourself, goes against 60 years of secular humanism, which will fade from the earth in another hundred years. But this admonition will still be valid, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." From a book that will still be read 1,000 years from now, written by men far wiser than any alive today.

And child psycholgy and secular humanism will be seen as a bizare departure for a brief time in history from the aquired wisdom of the human race. Due to the incredible arrogance of the thinkers of the 20th century who think all wisdom came into existence with their birth on the earth.

When my sons were young and in the tantrum stages, (they are 15 months apart) I was at my wit's end one afternoon and dumped a cup of cold water on their little screaming heads. It got their attention real quick! From then on, all I had to do was ACT like I was getting a cup of water to toss on them and the tantrums ended ASAP. They both are teen-agers now and pretty decent kids, if I do say so myself :)

#205 Necklace of Shoes

I wound working for an Inertial Guidance firm for the last 18 years.

BEI (SDID), by any chance?

No, jehu. I'm chiding you for your sin of pride.

#206 E2M

Jehu can be reasonable. I respect the fact that he's got strong opinions and feelings, and that sometimes he gets carried away by them.

On this one, I think he's being a bit of a Pharisee.

savage_nation

Believe me, she'll thank you for this someday. Honest.

#200 Lizard

Based on this, I'm going to do some wild (perhaps mean) extrapolation with absolutely no evidence. Based on the above, she was an ugly chick who none of the boys paid attention to. She was deeply book-smart but real-world stupid. And her two choices for ever getting laid were:
a. Go lesbo
b. Find and Islamist to make her his property.

Wow! You are really working overtime to find something other than immaturity to blame this on. You might want to check out this picture.

Hey, my theories are as good as anyone's on this board right now. :-)

The link above is the third link to this story that's appeared in this thread. So, your theories may be OK, but you might want to test them against the available evidence.

#211 LBTB

BAE and its legacy companies.

Dianna 204

No, it's your self-righteous and condemnatory attitude that we're finding eyebrow-raising.

Remember the difference between righteousness and self-righteousness?

No it is the express teaching of the Bible that sticks in your craw, when you cough that up you don't have the guts or honesty to admit that, so you blame the messenger, as it always has been, and always will be. If I was Walt Disney in demeanor, you would object it was too soft. Your remind me of what was said about the Pharisees by Christ.

(paraphrasing)

"I sent you John the Babtist and you complained he was too austere and harsh. So I came and you said, behold a glutton and drunkard."

It is the message to which the people on this board rebel...deal with it. Or keep raising junk kids, personally I don't care if you worship your kids or drown them tomorrow. Do it however you want, just dont' start whining and blaming everything but yourself when they destroy themselves and others.

#197 jester6

yes, kids would prefer taking a spanking, be back in good graces & be able to run & play and keep all other privileges. That is the whole point. Kids need punishments that are of very short duration and very private. Your keeping her from playing, telegraphs her 'bad' status to the world. Kids can run up a string of 'bad' that constantly has them in a disgraced state. After a while it looks impossible and not worth ever being good again.

There is a huge difference between a quick thawp on the bottom to bring a young child to it's senses and a beating.

And, if I recall what is was like being a smart-ass, out of control 15 year old - and believe me I remember all too well - NOTHING is as humiliating and hubris-shattering as getting your ass whupped. It definitely resets the world-is-all-about-me meter.

#215 Just My View

Wow! You are really working overtime to find something other than immaturity to blame this on.

One of my neices was the very poster-child for immaturity. But most immature teens don't drop everything and head for the West Bank to be married. Also, in the case of this particular niece, her chronic immaturity was the direct result of deeply low self-esteem (hence my somewhat tounge-in-cheek post at #200), although her bad self-esteem was not because of looks, but because of a mother who witheld love as a form of control.

#218 jehu

Excuse me? How about you address what I said, and not instantaneously indulge in a personal assault?

What I do or do not believe is not your affair. You are beyond the bounds of civility, here, and I suggest you retract.

Our almost 15 year old daughter gets attention from 19 year old guys at group activities etc.. They don't ask her out becuase they know we would not allow it.

Not only is the computer in the living room where I can see what she is doing, she knows I will check her email occassionally until she is 18, and I know how to check the browser's history to see where she has been. She is not allowed to have a phone in her room until she is older.

The downside is that teenage email is boring, and most of the web sites are stuff I have no interest in- but at least I know it is safe.

"Junk kids"... wow.

If my child grows up to be a good man, if will be due to grace. Alone.

My efforts are even in themselves attributable to the grace of G-d who gave me my parents, a good husband, enough financial stability to stay home and spend time with him, the desire to raise him properly, unconditional love for him, the strength to smack his behind when necessary, the humility to apologize to him when I AM wrong in hopes that HE will learn humility... the list goes on and on.

I won't take credit for something that is given to me, despite the temptation to say "look at me!" when others' "junk kids" make the mistakes that parents weep over.

#216 NoS

Ah. I only asked because long ago (in another life it seems) I worked for BEI-SDID, helping to make inertia-sensing devices for automobiles and, um, er, other things...

I dated a muslim for a little while in college. He was very nice and did anything for me. I visited his mosque and met other American women who married muslim men and converted and they seemed really happy and nice, although it was very strange to be segregated from the men. I really gave serious thought to marrying him.

He told me about his sister who had been murdered by her husband, burned alive in her own home, for some perceived wrong. He was totally upset about it, and I thought that even if his culture believed in things like this, he didn't because it happened to his sister.

Well one day I was at home and "Not Without My Daughter" came on Lifetime. I watched the whole thing and got really scared.

I decided to call the whole thing off when his dad came from Pakistan for his graduation and he told me he would be happy when we came back to Pakistan to live with them, and that I could be his new daughter.

So I told him I was through, and then the craziness began. He called my house night and day every 15 minutes. He sent flowers to my work every day, and he called me there all the time too. My boss finally told him to stop calling and he would disguise his voice to get transfered to me. He had a college professor from his university call me and ask why I wanted to break his heart. (I contacted the university on that one and she was reprimanded) Finally, he tried to break into my university email account from his workplace. I went to the cops and they contacted him and told him if he ever contacted me again they'd tell his work what he was trying to do from their system, and get him in big trouble.

For years I looked behind my back thinking he'd find me and kill me for "dishonoring" him. I thought twice about putting my wedding announcement in the paper because he could easily learn where I was from it.

It has been almost 10 years now, but it is an experience I will never forget. My mom tried to tell me from the start that it was a bad idea, but I just thought she didn't know him or what she was talking about. Now I know the kind of terrible experience I could have avoided had I listened to her.

I just hope this girl gets her head screwed on straight... and I agree with the poster who said she needs to watch "Not Without My Daughter" until it sinks in!

#226 starfox5253

Wow. Your story deserves it's own thread. It's fortunate for you that you were able to get out when you did!

Well said, lazytart.

I have no children, but I've observed my friends raising theirs. One woman I know spanked (very rarely); another didn't.

Both sets of kids have turned out very well - though one boy turned out a classics scholar (I'm slightly envious).

#225 LBTB

So you were in the heating and glass making biz? An artisan in our midst!

I've been bumping heads with Systron for years. We keep each other honest.

Oh, and NEVER, EVER use Ritalin! It is truly the lazy way out.

I would lessen the number of school days as a solution to spring fever before I would ever prescribe Ritalin to a child.

#218 jehu

It is the message to which the people on this board rebel...deal with it. Or keep raising junk kids, personally I don't care if you worship your kids or drown them tomorrow. Do it however you want, just dont' start whining and blaming everything but yourself when they destroy themselves and others.

Is this a 21st Century form of "love thy neighbor"? Pretty impressive. Jesus would be proud of your compassion.

Jumpin' in late here...has anyone mentioned the lure and addiction of MySpace? It is nothing more than a giant cyber diary with pictures that everyone in the world has access to.

This new generation of teens is quite exhibitionistic and voyeuristic -- love taking pics of themselves for the world to see. And they're not all nice pics either. They must have an empty abyss in their souls because they think cyber relationships are "connecting" with people. No bond with their parents, maybe?

It's a strange and dangerous global phenomenon.

savage_nation

What is indisputable is that you love that girl, and she knows it. She will be OK. Fuck all this liberal prissy crap about raising kids. All I have to do is look around at the current crop of terminal narcists, in your face with all their rights.

And I know 90% of them were raised under liberal or progressive ideas of child discipline. The kids fighting in Iraq and the firemen of 911 rushing up the stairs to save others at the expense of their lives, were for the most part raised under traditional values and would tell the stories like necklace just did.

Anyone want to bet they were molly-coddled and fussed over by two effiminite parents, no matter the gender? Strong men produce other strong men, and good daughters. Not the worthess self-centered bastards of today, and the pieces of fluff that pass for women.

Anyone can call it self-righteouss if they want. But years ago we did not tolerate child molestors and serial rapists in this country. Now we have thousands of lawyers devoted to making sure this anti-spanking bromide is carried to its logical extreme.

Get a grip here Lizards, I thought you had more sense than this.

Ok, before anyone starts, I don't have a kid (yet...he's still a bun in the oven and won't be poppin' fresh till October).

But can't mommy and/or daddy at least take the freakin' computer away? Or insist that she can only use it when one of them is sitting right next to her?

Forget the age of consent crap. She's still (for a few months) under the age of 18.

I don't give a flying rat's ass if she bought the computer with her own money from working at Mickey D's...if he can't "talk" to her either over the internet phone or by email, the spell can be broken pretty damn fast at that age.

starfox5253

Well, my experience wasn't as bad as yours - and you should send yours to fjordman - he collects this stuff.

I dated a Kuwaiti guy very briefly in college. He just eventually creeped my out - and he was a lazy critter, too.

190 incanus

But according to ibrodsky, your family was uneducated and poor. Therefore you are screwed up for life, regardless of how things turned out in reality.

No, I said "Most of the parents I see spanking their children are uneducated and/or poor."

If Necklace of Shoes says he was a "wild-ass" 13-year old and deserved to be punched by his father, I'll take his word for it.

However, the kids I knew when I was growing up who were always starting fights were the same kids who spoke with awe about their fathers beating them. To me it made perfect sense.

Dianna 212

Excuse me? How about you address what I said, and not instantaneously indulge in a personal assault?

You mean after you called me a Pharisee? And I did address what you said, go read it again or not...I don't care to argue with you liberals in conservative cloaks. If you believe this secular-humanist drivel, who am I to talk you from it. Enjoy.

#231 JustMyView, which Jesus?

Last year I sent my youngest daughter to school in Jerusalem, hoping that she would meet some (rich) Israeli guy and get married.

But she told me she wants to come home, get a job and go to college.

#238 Roger

#231 JustMyView, which Jesus?

You know, the one from Nazareth. Born in a manger and all that.

godfrey:

German, too?

Nope. Just remembered that bit from "The Waste Land". So all this Hun gibberish you're quoting to me is going in one ear and out the other. It all sounds to me like "blahblahblah overrun Poland blahblahblah".

#232 Ladycatnip
Yes, I found my 18 year old daughter had her picture listed on myspace a month or so ago.

I hit the proverbial ceiling. "But all my friends are doing it". Like that would make a difference to me. Got that removed Pronto.

I told her that was why she had parents, to prevent her making stupid mistakes until she could recognize them on her own. She got over it.

231 JustMyView

Is this a 21st Century form of "love thy neighbor"? Pretty impressive. Jesus would be proud of your compassion.

If I say raise your kids by Biblical principles then you all say, "you are self-righteouss." If I say, "I don't give a damn what you do with your kids." Then I don't have any compassion. So, really do what ever the hell you want with your kids, make your sons marry other boys, and daughters other girls, have no rules or discipline at all. In fact let the kids be in charge, we did that with Clinton and the country survived.

#241 OR

It all sounds to me like "blahblahblah overrun Poland blahblahblah".

ROTFLMAO!

#229 NoS

So you were in the heating and glass making biz? An artisan in our midst!

It's hard to know, really. Everything was very compartmentalized. You'd get design specs for a sensor, with certain restrictions on materials and minimum tolerances, and you had no idea if it was going into a nuke, the Space Shuttle, an Apache, or maybe just the latest Cadillac STS (Systron makes plently of commercial stuff, too). I just know from our mini-museum at Systron that the trigger from the Minuteman III (as well as many other missiles) was designed there, and that the same kind of work still went on.

I've been bumping heads with Systron for years. We keep each other honest.

Truthfully, it was one of the worst jobs I ever had. Not the company really (they were fine), but my immediate supervisors were so insufferable that I knew I had to get out or lose my mind. No one who had to work for them or even with them seemed like happy people.

ladycatnip

Interesting. I'm also amazed at how complacent the original article's writer is about the whole thing:

They found love on the Internet and it became an international incident

How can anyone write this straight and call it reporting?

Is media culture so thoughtless and debased? Is it so starved for sensational stories that it would approve of this match, put it in the limelight, and spin off endless "Romeo & Juliet" comparisons, making the West play Montague and the Palis Capulet? And then wring its hands at the bloody end, wailing about "tragedy" and "the cycle of violence"?

The MSM would love for this story to have happened and to have come to a bad end, because then they could justify decrying the whole situation as the West's fault.

I spit on this article.

I'm sure Theodore Dalrymple has interesting things to say about myspace.com and its exhibitionism. What this incident proves (as if it needed proving) is that you don't have to be a prude to regard this exhibitionism as, er, unwise.

OR

ROFLMAO!

#237 jehu

I did not call you a pharisee. I said you were being a bit of a pharisee on this one.

That was not calling you names. It was an attempt to call your attention to bad behavior.

But, well, today you have decided that you - and only you - are righteous. So proclaim it, and never once murmur in your heart, "Lord, be merciful to me, a sinner."

I'm sure it makes you happy.

Folks. I am not necessarily against corporal punishment. I don't think it is an either or choice.

My point is you can make an impact without whack. And making my daughter spend a few hours in her room did not telegraph anything to anyone except her.

From personal experience, whacks often become nothing more then the childhood version of parking tickets. If I wanted to do something bad enough I would pay the price. Just like I am willing to suck up a $20 parking ticket if the meeting is important enough. If you have ever watched a 2 year old switch gears to manipulate a parent you know kids can make the same sort of calculation.

I personally remember being allowed to choose between a swat or a detention in middle school. Guess what? The detention room was always empty after school because we always took the swat.

BTW, after my daughter stopped crying and resigned herself to the fact that what she did was wrong and no amount of apology or begging could erase her actions the punishment ended... with 3.5 more hours of daylight and last day of school exuberance.

I consider it one of my better parenting moments. Taught the lesson, gave her a hug, told her what a good person she was despite what she did and gave her a can of shaving cream to use on the neighbor kid - all in a span of 2 hours.

One other point, I don’t like corporal punishment because if she escalates I do not have too far to go. With creative punishment – real punishment not just a talking to – I have unlimited options at my disposal. Cruel? Maybe.

But I don’t ever want to be in the position of escalating corporal punishment to get the point across when my opponent is a strong willed kid. I can’t think of anything worse for a parent than starting down that road and having to back off because I am the civilized one and my child is the barbarian willing to take the physical punishment required to ensure victory. When you back off and let the kid win you will never be in the same position again.

Oh, and, also, you never addressed what I'd said. All you did was attack me, and you continued it in #237.

I am not a liberal in a conservative cloak. I'm not a conservative in a literal cloak.

I'm just me.

#240 JustMyView, and all that? A whip wielder? A sarcastic divider? A double edged sword? A recommender of Jewish law? That one?

Oh, and OR, that bit from Eliot was from "Tristan," and so I'm going to chalk up your quoting it aptly to your being a Smarty Pants in spite of yourself.

:-P

#250 Dianna

Well let's hope you are literally in something if not a cloak! At the very least, pajamas!

#246 godfrey

"I spit on this article."

OMG ROFLMAO...LGF Classic.

I can only speak for myself, but I am farting in its general direction.

Hey, she was 16, according to middle eastern society, practically an old maid! He was just trying to do her a favor. We are so backwards and old fashioned. If they moved to the Netherlands this would not even be a problem even if they were both Christian. Too bad we can't be like the nice people in the Netherlands.

248 Dianna

I did not call you a pharisee. I said you were being a bit of a pharisee on this one.

Let me get my word electron microscope to parse that one again. Thanks for cluing me to the distinction. Today I just have a passing pharisaic cold on this subject. Anyway, I think all the experiments in rasing kids in a non-Biblical manner have worked pretty good. That Lord of the Flies experiment turned our sort of bad. So I revise my opinion. Raise your kids as seems fit to you...just stay away from the Lord of Flies system.

/safe area

#253 Roger

I'm at work. Even in San Francisco, it would raise eyebrows to appear naked.

Cloaks and slouch hats are for halloween!

#249 jester6

One other point, I don’t like corporal punishment because if she escalates I do not have too far to go. With creative punishment – real punishment not just a talking to – I have unlimited options at my disposal. Cruel? Maybe.

But I don’t ever want to be in the position of escalating corporal punishment to get the point across when my opponent is a strong willed kid. I can’t think of anything worse for a parent than starting down that road and having to back off because I am the civilized one and my child is the barbarian willing to take the physical punishment required to ensure victory. When you back off and let the kid win you will never be in the same position again.

Very smart observations!

It also reminds of all the girls in high school who went out with guys in college saying "oh they're so much more mature" and when you tried to point out how foolish they were being they'd say "but I looove him!" yeah right. So mature they date children who they can manipulate into having sex.

#256 jehu

Let me get my word electron microscope to parse that one again. Thanks for cluing me to the distinction.

If you think the difference is hard to distinguish, you are not paying attention.

Of course, if you'd been paying attention, at any point in this discussion to what people were actually saying, instead of displaying your own perfection, no one would have had a problem with you.

ok here's something about spanking:
my parents spanked me.

you know what's worse?

the screaming, yelling, overreacting, telling me how dissapointing I was

all of that had a much huger affect than spanking ever did.

These anti spanking advocates say spanking is so horrible, but words oh just use words. yeah right.

words can hurt a child a hell of a lot more than a spanking ever will.

#252 godfrey:

that bit from Eliot was from "Tristan,"

Well, I did know that, since Eliot was kind enough to provide footnotes to his own poem!

chalk up your quoting it aptly to your being a Smarty Pants

I recalled it was from Tristand & Isolde (now a major motion picture!); about a boy pining for a girl; and included the wonderfully relevant word "homeland". If that makes me a Smarty Pants, or even merely a Thoughtful Thong, so be it.

Gah, "Tristan"

Raising kids is easy.
You just have to talk to your kids early and often.
I don't know who said this, but I believe it 100%.

I do not beat my children.
The world will beat them.

Thoughtful Thong

Is that like-dental floss for butts?

Plutosdad:

Agreed. Separating disapproval of conduct from disapproval of the person is very very important. That is not only important when raising kids, it is important in everyday interactions with adults too.

Corporal punishment for teenage girls: "No more thong purchases until you finish your beets."

Hey, I'm a music buff. When can I start banging 16 year old girls?

Occasional that's corporal klinger punishment

FWIW- "You know it don't come easy.":
Note 6, 8 and 15. These are not a bunch of "one liners" - it's a plan with many angles. Probably the most important one is #28 - if the baseline keeps shifting, there is no standard.

Proverbs 22:1 A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold.
2 The rich and poor meet together: the LORD is the maker of them all.
3 A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.
4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.
5 Thorns and snares are in the way of the froward: he that doth keep his soul shall be far from them.
6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.
8 He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail.
9 He that hath a bountiful eye shall be blessed; for he giveth of his bread to the poor.
10 Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.
11 He that loveth pureness of heart, for the grace of his lips the king shall be his friend.
12 The eyes of the LORD preserve knowledge, and he overthroweth the words of the transgressor.
13 The slothful man saith, There is a lion without, I shall be slain in the streets.
14 The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.
15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.
17 Bow down thine ear, and hear the words of the wise, and apply thine heart unto my knowledge.
18 For it is a pleasant thing if thou keep them within thee; they shall withal be fitted in thy lips.
19 That thy trust may be in the LORD, I have made known to thee this day, even to thee.
20 Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge,
21 That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth; that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?
22 Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
23 For the LORD will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them.
24 Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:
25 Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul.
26 Be not thou one of them that strike hands, or of them that are sureties for debts.
27 If thou hast nothing to pay, why should he take away thy bed from under thee?
28 Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.
29 Seest thou a man diligent in his business? he shall stand before kings; he shall not stand before mean men.

Also, not to forget Ecclesiastes chapter 3.

It boils down to the punishment fitting the crime

writermom

Smart woman, you don't have to wipe anything off the screen.

OR

"Thoughtful Thong" it is.

204 Dianna

Remember the difference between righteousness and self-righteousness?

Yes, self righteoussness is classically exhibited by liberals, in that they arrive to their own definition of righteousness by their own proscribed acts. If they are fashionably against cigarettes, then they are righteouss in current liberal society.

Or if they are for peace, then they can consider themselve smugly righteouss. Or if they drive a hybrid...righteouss.

Also not spanking your kids is an act of liberal self-righteousness, if for no other reason than you are sticking it to the Biblical version of child rearing.

Righteoussness is imputed to a man or woman by God, by faith alone, not by your acts...although acts will follow. I am nothing in myself, I am a sinner, and except by the upholding power of Christ I am capable of the vilest of sins.

I have never pretended to NOT be a sinner, not to myself or anyone else. However I do not see anywhere that this precludes me from mentioning the proscribed operating manual for human behavior (the Bible).

If we have to be perfect in anyone's eyes before we can mention Biblical principles without being labeled as self-righteouss, then the Bible would have died 3,000 years ago.

Either you believe the Bible was given by the creator of man, as to our condition, how to deal with that condition, and that the information comes from the author of human nature and knows it better than any scientist will ever know it, or we have no conversation. That is where I am coming from. Either you accept it, or do it your way. To me their is no compromise on that premiss. If you do not believe it is the Word of God, then do as you will, ignore my injunctions and simply say, "I don't believe the Bible, or on this point I don't believe the Bible. I can respect that viewpoint and we can move on.

If you do accept the Biblical view, then you have NO business raising your kids in any system or way the world proscribes, in doing so you are sinning agaisnt God, and your kids, no matter if ten-thousand pscycholgists, and five thousand judges say otherwise.

BTW: the article said the girl was "willing to convert to islam". I am willing to bet the girl is extremely overweight, for fatties are willing to please. I saw a girl on a muslim dating site looking for a muslim husband. She was from Kentucky, ugly, and fatter that fuck. No self esteem is one of the main requirements for a "european type" to convert to islam.

#270 LC LaWedgie

I foresee a Book burning in the not-too-distant American future history.