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Wire Services Defend Staged Photos

Tue, Aug 1, 2006 at 2:00:40 pm PDT

The news wire services are circling the wagons around their propaganda photos from Qana: News agencies stand by Lebanon photos.

NEW YORK - Three news agencies on Tuesday rejected challenges to the veracity of photographs of bodies taken in the aftermath of an Israeli airstrike in Lebanon, strongly denying that the images were staged.

Photographers from The Associated Press, Reuters and Agence France-Presse all covered rescue operations Sunday in Qana, where 56 Lebanese were killed. Many of their photos depicted rescue workers carrying dead children.

A British Web site, the EU Referendum blog, built an argument that chicanery may have been involved by citing time stamps that went with captions of the photographs.

For example, the Web site draws attention to a photo by AP’s Lefteris Pitarakis time stamped 7:21 a.m., showing a dead girl in an ambulance. Another picture, stamped 10:25 a.m. and taken by AP’s Mohammed Zaatari, shows the same girl being loaded onto the ambulance. In a third, by AP photographer Nasser Nasser and stamped 10:44 a.m., a rescue worker carries the girl with no ambulance nearby.

The site suggests these events were staged for effect, a criticism echoed by talk show host Rush Limbaugh when he directed listeners to the blog on Monday.

“These photographers are obviously willing to participate in propaganda,” Limbaugh said. “They know exactly what’s being done, all these photos, bringing the bodies out of the rubble, posing them for the cameras, it’s all staged. Every bit of it is staged and the still photographers know it.”

The AP said information from its photo editors showed the events were not staged, and that the time stamps could be misleading for several reasons, including that web sites can use such stamps to show when pictures are posted, not taken. An AFP executive said he was stunned to be questioned about it. Reuters, in a statement, said it categorically rejects any such suggestion.

These are just the first cracks in the facade.

UPDATE at 8/1/06 3:02:32 pm:

If the wire services truly want to settle the timing issue, all they need to do is release the actual timestamps from when the photographs were taken. Digital cameras automatically record this information in the photograph itself, so it would be a simple matter for the wires to provide it.

Will they? Or are we simply supposed to take their word for it?

UPDATE at 8/1/06 4:30:31 pm:

For me, by the way, the timing issue is actually not the most damning thing about the photos, or the thing that most convinces me they were staged. It’s appallingly clear when you examine all the photos that children’s bodies were posed deliberately for photo ops, and that the Green Helmet Guy was doing this for quite a long time, in several different locations often with the same body.

It’s one of the most repellent exhibitions of blatant, in your face, inhumanly calloused propaganda I’ve seen in quite a few years of exposure to the stuff.

In this post, EU Referendum collects some of the most questionable pictures and examines them without regard to their timestamps—and there is obviously very good reason for suspicion.

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313 comments

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1 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:01:46pm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Beware the blogosphere!

2 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:02:08pm

And first, too.

/ducking under table

3 zombie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:02:12pm

The fact that they're even aware they are being debunked is a good sign for our side.

4 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:02:28pm

(echo, echo, echo)

5 SwampWoman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:02:46pm

"Stunned" and "categorically rejects", huh?

Sounds like they're not accustomed to being fact checked.

6 pegcity  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:02:55pm

mother fucking Goebbels pieces of shit

7 The Other Les  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:03:00pm

Sick, as usual.

8 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:04:19pm

LGF fact checks your ass, MSM.

Get used to it. This is the new paradigm.

/ah, there's nothing like corporate buzzwords

9 Liz Ard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:04:40pm

Stunned, I say. Stunned.

I categorically reject truth !

/msm

10 hepcat  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:05:18pm

Time stamps!

11 zombie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:05:18pm
An AFP executive said he was stunned to be questioned about it.

You better start getting used to being "stunned," monsieur. You ain't seen nothin' yet. Your days of media monopoly are over, and your effortlessly conducted lies will henceforth not be so effortless any more.

12 blue_like_jazz  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:05:28pm

go, bloggies, go!

everyone say a little prayer of thanks for those who tell the truth!

13 sunny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:05:32pm

Ok, so show the original timestamps if that is the issue. If the timestamps are those of a posting time and not the actual time the picture was taken, just show it.

Nothing better than facts to direct the arguement rather than simply rejecting the accusation.

14 # 17  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:05:50pm

If they were smart, they would have ignored the evidence and not responded. The vast majority of people would never hear that the photos are staged and propaganda. Hopefully, they will continue to protest their innocence, which will keep the story live, and ultimately prove to be their undoing.

15 Liz Ard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:05:53pm

OT: Robert Reich (econoweasel) is a true apologist for the forces of the left.

/no links - do your own DD

16 WrathofG-d  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:06:19pm

eh chem...to quote the thread below:

The Red Cross published that 28 corpses were evacuated from Qana, 19 of which were children. The report clashes with the Lebanese report that 57 people were killed.

17 TotallySirius  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:06:26pm

Fake but accurate?

Bwa hahahahaha

18 Liz Ard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:06:26pm

#17

#17

is this redundant ?

19 NY Nana  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:06:32pm

#3 Zombie

The fact that they're even aware they are being debunked is a good sign for our side.

Exactly, and looking at which 'news agancies' are doing the kvetching? Reminds me of the Mel Gibson denial...and then the admisssion that he was DUI, with no mention of his Jew hate, followed by today's mealy-mouthed admission that what he said was could be seen as Jew hate...

20 dave  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:06:40pm

All I have to say is chicanery!

21 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:06:45pm
22 blue_like_jazz  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:06:47pm

and, well... we CATEGORICALLY REJECT you reuters pieces of sh*t.

23 chemicalcorpse  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:07:22pm

One of the other blogs went into detail talking about the lack of concrete dust on most of the 'rescue workers' and 'victims'...

When 500lbs of HE flattens a building, you're going to have a few lacerations and be covered in blood caked concrete dust... many of the victims were relatively clean and actually gave the appearance of rigor mortis...

sorry goat fuckers

24 Liz Ard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:07:27pm

I meant #14 #17 or #17 #14 but not #18 #17 whatever.

You got it.

25 RedPepper  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:07:58pm

"I am shocked, shocked ..."

Oh, STFU, already ...

26 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:08:02pm

Charles, everybody:

Notice that so far, they're only talking about the time stamps on the photos, which they can say (rightly) are not foolproof.

BUT, they're not talking about Green Helmet Guy and his costume changes, yet. It's Rathergate, all over again.

It'll all come out, dribble, dribble. As usual.

27 zombie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:08:03pm

This is pretty appropriate for this thread:

Day of the Longtail

A YouTube video. A satirical faux-movie preview that references the takedown of Dan Rather by the blogs, and is on the topic of the audience not being passive any more. Worth a look!

28 tigger2005  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:08:52pm

the time stamps could be misleading for several reasons, including that web sites can use such stamps to show when pictures are posted, not taken.

Huh?

Why would they stamp a photo to show the time it was posted, not the time it was taken? What would be the point to this? Any photographers out there who know if this is a common practice?

29 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:09:21pm

WTNT63 KNHC 012106
TCUAT3
TROPICAL STORM CHRIS TROPICAL CYCLONE UPDATE
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL032006
505 PM AST TUE AUG 01 2006

BASED ON A RECENT REPORT FROM THE AIR FORCE RECONNAISSANCE AIRCRAFT...THE MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS IN CHRIS HAVE INCREASED TO
NEAR 60 MPH. A SPECIAL ADVISORY WILL BE RELEASED SHORTLY... PRIMARILY TO MODIFY THE INITIAL AND FORECAST INTENSITY. NO CHANGES
IN WATCHES OR WARNINGS ARE REQUIRED AT THIS TIME.

$$
FORECASTER PASCH/KNABB

30 The Other Les  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:09:50pm

"I'm shocked, shocked to find that propaganda is being generated here!"

31 hepcat  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:09:50pm

News agencies stand and restand by Lebanon photos

32 NY Nana  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:10:27pm

And watch, over the next few weeks, how they will obfuscate, and never really admit they are lying through their teeth, and just continuing their policy of veiled and now more and more blatant Jew hate, using Israel as their excuse.

33 NiceLass  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:11:03pm
These are just the first cracks in the facade.

Well they've got some pretty thick facades. Unfortunately for me, the euroweenies won't take the word of conservative talk show hosts or (*gasp*) blogs, so until one of the msm outright admits it, they only laugh and start with the "hatemonger" remarks.

*sigh*

34 Tasty_Beverage  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:11:09pm

The issue for me was not the timestamps. Forget the timestamps. It was the fact that the "rescue workers" were holding bodies up for the cameras, and the photographers accomodated this behavior. That is the definition of staging. Actual professional rescue workers (or maybe just normal humans) just go about their business and show respect for the dead, they don't hold up body parts and howl for the cameras. And the photographers are complicit in the staging by going along with it.

35 mean Gene  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:11:19pm

So, of all these three great photographers, did any one of them see the clean pacifier being put on the dusty baby?

No?

What about how the clean rescue workers managed to get the filthy baby out of the ruins without getting dirty?

No?

Did any of them see the other bodies (the clean bodies) get cleaned?

No?

Did these photographers see anything they weren't told to see?

36 EvilPundit  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:12:23pm

The linked story has a discussion thread attached (click "Discuss" to see it).

It might be good to put a few comments there, since it's dominated by lefties.

You'd need to register with Yahoo first, but that isn't difficult.

37 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:13:08pm
38 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:13:31pm

In doing a little research, it appears to me that all of Lebanon and Palestine should be considered Israel as dictated by law unless you are a Canaanite, a Hittite, a Hivite, a Perizzite, a Girgashite, an Amorite, or a Jebusite.

And if you are a a Canaanite, a Hittite, a Hivite, a Perizzite, a Girgashite, an Amorite, or a Jebusite, you can file your complaint with God. The same one that rejected your first complaint 3,200 years ago.

So, the way I see it, Lebanon and Palestine are internal matters of Israeli law and none of the rest of the world's business.

Carry on Israel...

39 scaramouche  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:15:04pm

The Islamo-Nazis are like violin prodigies, and the media are their well-tuned Stadivarius.

40 limhk  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:15:14pm

The first thing I would demand of the various agencies, if they are so confident of the integrity of their photographers, is that they release all the pictures taken that day. Upload all they pictures, categorized by photographer (or camera, if the photographer happens to carry more than one camera) and in chronological order. This will make is far easier to piece together the sequence of events and show whether there are any staged photos.

All these photos must, of course, be uncropped.

In the old days, they can claim it is not possible, but now it is simply a matter of downsizing the photos and putting them on the web. Hell, I'll be willing to cover the bandwidth costs (via subscription, say) if that is a concern.

lhk

41 journeyscarab  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:15:54pm

I think we can declare shenanigans South Park style on the Hezbos and their MSM helpers.

42 TimK  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:17:01pm

Calling Dan Rather! Calling Dan Rather!
Hey Dan, these guys need your help in explaining accurate but forged. Do your best for them would you?

43 BabbaZee  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:17:24pm

O/T

Post and run - Write a letter to an Israeli soldier:

From the Republican Jewish Coalition:

With violence escalating in the Middle East, it is essential that the Republican Jewish community show its solidarity with Israel. Show your support for Israel by joining the RJC’s letter writing campaign.

In the fight against Hezbollah, Israeli families have been torn apart and the Israeli military has suffered heavy casualties. You can help boost morale by writing a letter to a soldier, offering your support and sharing your feelings. A mission participant will hand-deliver your letter to an Israeli soldier while on the RJC Leadership Mission to Israel next week.

We've already had tremendous support. Please submit your letter by Friday, August 4th to letters@rjchq.org and make this an outstanding effort. Show Israel that the United States is a friend and ally. Tell a soldier you believe freedom is worth fighting for.

Sincerely,

Matthew Brooks
Executive Director
[Link: www.rjchq.org...]

44 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:17:32pm

I guess the MSM still thinks the vast majority of the folks are STUPID. Unfortunately for them, I think folks are starting to wake up.

We are not going to be spoonfed their crap anymore! The blogosphere has a brain and is a force to be reckoned with!

Al Reuters and the rest of the MSM better take notice, their house of cards is beginning to fall!

GO IDF!
GO ISRAEL!
KICK SOME HEZBO ARSE!

45 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:17:43pm

#38 goodbye_natalie

Amen to that, brother. I've been thinking lately they should just keep Lebanon. Who needs Gaza and the West Bank, when you've got Lebanon?

46 Catttt  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:19:20pm
An AFP executive said he was stunned to be questioned about it.

Oh, is he? Well, he'd better either get used to being questioned or start vetting his stringers' results more carefully, because this is no longer the 20th century, and fact-checking R Us, from now on. The MSM's lies (whether intentional or not) are sloppy and transparent, because they just assume we will not question them.

The MSM has been twisting the facts forever, and as long as people blindly believe in their veracity, they will continue to do so.

Thank God for the 'net, talk radio, and Fox News (which picks up these things and broadcasts them when virtually no one else does).

47 aishel  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:19:30pm

First Rathergate, now Qanagate!

48 tigger2005  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:20:01pm

Reposting this question, I would really like to know. Anyone out there who knows whether it really is common practice for news photos to be timestamped by time of posting rather than time of taking? I don't think we should just take their word for it.

the time stamps could be misleading for several reasons, including that web sites can use such stamps to show when pictures are posted, not taken.

Huh?

Why would they stamp a photo to show the time it was posted, not the time it was taken? What would be the point to this? Any photographers out there who know if this is a common practice?

49 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:20:06pm

#42 TimK

Don't worry. Now that Dan is with HDNet, he can do an hour-long, uncensored (his words, not mine) program on it, in hiiiiigh definition.

/hey, wake up

50 Bill Jefferson  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:20:10pm

Any comment on the miraculously clean blue binky? Only sick people would pose their own dead children that way. Only sick people would pose anyone's dead children that way.

From the article:

Carroll said in addition to personally speaking with photo editors, "I also know from 30 years of experience in this business that you can't get competitive journalists to participate in the kind of (staging) experience that is being described."

Yeah. Uh-huh.of

51 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:21:28pm

Ahmadinejad: Throw Britain and U.S. off Security Council

[Link: today.reuters.co.uk...]

TEHRAN (Reuters) - The United States and Britain are responsible for Israel's killing of civilians in Lebanon and should not be trusted with seats on the U.N. Security Council, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Tuesday.

Israeli forces launched a massive offensive against Lebanon after Hizbollah kidnapped two of its soldiers in a cross-border raid on July 12. Most of the victims of the conflict have been Lebanese civilians.

Iran regularly blames Britain, as a creator of Israel, and the United States, as the state that bankrolls and protects it, for deaths in conflicts in the Middle East.

"They are not competent to be members of the Security Council or to have the power of veto ... They are criminals and should be put on trial," Ahmadinejad told a crowd in the northeastern town of Bojnurd.

Iran has accused the U.N. Security Council of acting illegally by demanding that Iran end its nuclear work or face the threat of sanctions. The West says it believes Iran is planning to build atomic warheads, a charge Tehran denies.

52 TotallySirius  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:22:35pm

#41 journey

Rabble

rabble

rabble

Now,where's that broom?

53 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:22:39pm

#46 Catttt

And pray the Dems don't win back control of Congress, as they'd loooooove to bring back the Fairness Doctrine to shut down talk radio, and Web laws to squash the blogosphere.

54 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:22:47pm
55 Beagle  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:23:07pm

I notice the article does nothing to explain why the same guy shows up to ghoulishly wave the bodies. Nothing about the inconsistencies with the Hizb'Allah story and the apparent facts. They know they've been caught. It's another Dan Rather. Pour on more gasoline and get more matches.

56 RedWhiteAndJew  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:23:19pm

What a suprisy-prize-prize. The soulless ghouls of HezzBolus know that pictures of dead children will tear at the heart strings of the non-muslim world. They and their ilk have no such sensitivity, but they can sure play us.

(Well, some of us, anyway...)

Excerpt from HezzBolus playbook

Remember, always suffocate the children to be presented as victims of the Zionist entity or Great Satan before allowing the lapdog media to film them. Ensure that any members of the lapdog media who do photograph or film such preparations become tragic victims of the "massacre" as well.

I don't know what motivates western media's willing participation, but I suspect institutional and personal anti-Semitism, not to mention a hefty dose of general self-loathing, are high up on the ingredient list.

57 The Duke  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:23:35pm

A lying Asshole Speaks ..(i.e. Juan Cole breaks Wind online again )

Just saw this over at Coles loonyvile http://www.juancole.com/...Totally disgusting ...

Here's Loony

Israeli cabinet rejects masive reliance on troops.

The Israeli war with Hizbullah is going badly for the Israelis. Some generals think the problem is too few troops. But the Israeli cabinet rejected that way of thinking, Thursday, sticking to its current mixture of air power and light infantry.

Air strikes in the south will continue.

Here's Loonier

Bloomberg reports that the the Israeli assault on Lebanon may have much strengthened the hand of Shaikh Hassan Nasrullah.

And Here's Full blown Nutter

Mitch Prothero in Salon.com on the myth that Hizbullah hides among civilians.

' Throughout this now 16-day-old war, Israeli planes high above civilian areas make decisions on what to bomb. They send huge bombs capable of killing things for hundreds of meters around their targets, and then blame the inevitable civilian deaths -- the Lebanese government says 600 civilians have been killed so far -- on "terrorists" who callously use the civilian infrastructure for protection.

But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters -- as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers -- avoid civilians. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators -- as so many Palestinian militants have been.

For their part, the Israelis seem to think that if they keep pounding civilians, they'll get some fighters, too. '

The Above story is pure Horseshitof course

And then This shit

A Christian Bishop in Jerusalem would get a better hearing among American Christians than would non-Christian leaders, right? Wrong.

posted by Juan @ 7/28/2006 06:32:00 AM 25

58 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:24:15pm

OT

from Opinionjournal:

"The Jordan-based Arab Bank yesterday asked a federal judge in Brooklyn to dismiss a lawsuit brought by thousands of Israelis who claim the bank fueled terrorism by providing payments to the relatives of suicide bombers," the New York Sun reports:

Lawyers for the bank said that the 4,000 foreign citizens who are plaintiffs should not be allowed to have their case heard in the American court system. They argued that terrorism against Israel does not violate any "international norm." Lawyers for the bank said that some 80 countries, most Islamic or African, do not consider Palestinian Arab suicide bombers to be terrorists.

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter--that holding is binding on this court," said an attorney for the bank, Kevin Walsh of LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene and MacRae.

Mr. Walsh, Lawyer of the Year.

59 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:25:21pm

#43 Zee,

Sorry I took so long to respond to your warranted criticism in a previous post. I did answer and hope I made myself a little clearer.

In reading my response, I agree that you were right. That didn't come out the way it was intended. Sorry about that...

60 Havoc  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:26:18pm

NYT finally does something useful.

interactive demographic ethnic map of Lebanonethnic map of lebanon

61 cosmicview  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:27:17pm

Get real, that's all we get from terrorist territories, does anyone think they would allow anything else. If the MSM believes that they can fool us until they admit later they had no choice like cnn did in Baghdad they are dumber than I imagined.

If one took a history of pictures from these area's the question would be, can anyone find one that isn't staged. Look at the names of who takes these pictures and that will confirm any doubt.

62 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:28:48pm

CNN denied they wsere in cahoots with Saddam. Reuters, you're next.

63 Liz Ard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:31:31pm

Meantime, CNN is continuously trying to stoke the Israel-Syria front - they 're now interviewing IMAD MOUSTAPHA (Syrian Ambassador to US) and he's just spouting pro-HEzboolah BS while wolf Bliztzer is poking him to admit they're supporting hezbhollah.

/CNN sucks

64 J. Lichty  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:31:44pm

Thank god for the great work that people are doing in their pajamas.

The truth can no longer hide behind some old grey lady in red, green and black.

65 American Infidel[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:32:05pm
66 BabbaZee  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:32:05pm

59 goodbye_natalie
I knew there was no way you meant it the way it read.......
This is a difficult medium for communication
inflections and meanings do not necessarily come through properly in a "post"
Anway I am glad you posted this here I may not have seen it otherwise.

You are a good man
may Hashem bless you!


See you all tomorrow

67 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:32:06pm

From [Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Kathleen Carroll, AP's senior vice president and executive editor...said in addition to personally speaking with photo editors, "I also know from 30 years of experience in this business that you can't get competitive journalists to participate in the kind of (staging) experience that is being described."

Photographers are experienced in recognizing when someone is trying to stage something for their benefit, she said.

Shall we all email Ms. Carroll about Pallywood, everyone?

68 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:32:17pm
69 Thor-Zone  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:32:18pm
An AFP executive said he was stunned to be questioned about it. Reuters, in a statement, said it categorically rejects any such suggestion.

Are you sure this isn't a quote from Dan Rather?

70 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:32:40pm

Zombie is right about calling the MSM to task.
Now I need help from those of you with better memories than mine.

What was the timeline from the first Blog twitches about Rathergate till the MSM said that there might be some issues in the blogisphere about the TANG memos?

Now compare that to this statement and the timeline.
Is the MSM getting more sensitive to the innernut, or are we getting better about getting the story out?

71 Quilly Mammoth  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:33:33pm

Compare the picture of OKC fire fighter Capt. Chris Fields holding little Baylee Almon and those staged by the Hizzbullah operatives press.

Little Baylee is covered in blood and dust and is still limp. This is about 30 minutes after the blast.

72 Blackacre  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:33:51pm

the time stamps are being used as a diversion. Much like the hunt for the rare typewriter that could produce a th but which TANG never possessed, the time stamp issue allows the MSM to avoid addressing the main point: the photos were staged and they bought this patent propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

73 Liz Ard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:34:07pm

OT: Imad Moustapha :syria supports a 'comprehensive solution' to the middle-east "problem" :

/euphemism

74 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:35:05pm

I think the MSM also doesn't want to admit they were hoodwinked by Hizz. It's a pride thing. To avoid it, they'd have to compare their pics with those from other agencies.

They got played by Hizz, pure and simple. And now they're trying to defend their screwup.

75 American Infidel[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:35:15pm
76 Golem Akbar  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:35:39pm

Finally getting somewhere. This Qana thing has actually turned some friends of mine, formerly supporters of Israel, into doubters. I have tried to explain what I understood, and give them links, but the PR is really bad. Go bloggers, go!

77 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:35:40pm
Photographers from The Associated Press, Reuters and Agence France-Presse all covered rescue operations Sunday in Qana, where 56 Lebanese were killed. Many of their photos depicted rescue workers carrying dead children.

Well, yes. I don't recall anyone questioning the fact that their photos depict "rescue workers" carrying dead children.

What we are questioning - and are STILL questioning - is exactly WHEN those dead children died. And possibly where & how.

Idiots.

78 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:36:33pm

#73 Liz Ard

"Comprehensive solution"? Is that like a "final solution"?

/spit!

79 -=@$$=-  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:37:25pm

if the chimp truly was a "compassionate conservative" he'd do what kerry would have done - declared this heat wave a federal disaster and started air-dropping ice cubes. instead the death toll mounts.

80 Catttt  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:38:17pm

Vent:

I'm trying not to be abusively angry, but I am so angry at these so-called professionals in the wire services, I could just freak out here. I seldom get this angry. These "professionals" have created an atmosphere that has resulted in horrific child abuse.

We have here corpse-musical-chairs pictures of the same guy who is pictured in corpse pictures from 1996. IMHO, it is far from unlikely that this guy (who is cheerfully holding up a headless corpse of a baby in a 1996 newswire pic) and his Hez cohorts led hapless, friendless disabled children to the target, knowing they would be in harm's way, knowing that these "worthless, damaged" little ones were useless alive but useful as corpses.

It is far from unlikely that they left these children there and allowed the building to fall on them.

It is not beyond reason that these children were killed elsewhere and transported to the location. Nothing horrible and evil is beyond reason. If I learned, somehow, that Hez suffocated this children then salted them at the scene, I would not be shocked.

There is simply nothing worse on earth than child abuse. I'm firm on this - there is NOTHING worse. Abuse of a disabled child is just appallingly infuriating.

I really hate these people. A lot.

81 shug  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:38:18pm
Courage
82 MoonbatBane  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:38:21pm

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

/Funny on MythBusters, scary when from the MSM

83 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:38:36pm

The MSM also keeps calling the people carrying the bodies "rescue workers", but I'll bet they're Hizb'allah PR operatives.

84 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:39:38pm
85 alegrias  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:40:25pm

God Bless Charles--and debunking lizardoids everywhere. We shall overcome the lying MSM and the Caliphate.

Fake but accurate!
Throbbing Memos!

Throbbing fake staged bleeding photos!

86 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:40:25pm
87 shug  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:40:41pm

Damn you blogosphere, mind your own business and let us go on hating the Joooos


PS: Bush is Hitler
/MSM

88 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:40:48pm

#80 Catttt

We have here corpse-musical-chairs pictures of the same guy who is pictured in corpse pictures from 1996. IMHO, it is far from unlikely that this guy (who is cheerfully holding up a headless corpse of a baby in a 1996 newswire pic) and his Hez cohorts led hapless, friendless disabled children to the target, knowing they would be in harm's way, knowing that these "worthless, damaged" little ones were useless alive but useful as corpses.

Plus they also get to be "martyrs", according to the jihadis. Disgusting.

89 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:41:43pm

#46 An AFP executive said he was stunned to be questioned about it.

Woo-hah! I did not pick up that line at first read. If he is "stunned to be questioned" then THAT means that somebody with some influence is doing some questioning! Perfect!

90 abu_garcia  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:44:32pm

Re: timestamps

My digital Nikon stamps each photo with the date and time it was taken.

91 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:44:58pm
92 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:45:05pm

AI
You and I have our differences, but take this question as an honest one.

You are one of the posters that has the dogged tenacity to dig at an issue when others give up.

Have you considered going thru the various photo archives from Getty and others, looking to see if the green helmet dude appears anywhere else?
It would be very nice if someone could show this clown in various other "Israeli mistakes" removed from Qana, holding up the trophy babies.

93 smfoushee  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:45:36pm

Timestamps on a digital photo are stored as part of the RAW format (we'll assume news agencies require photogs to shoot in RAW and not compressed JPEGs) within the EXIF meta data and the only way this stamp would be inaccurate is if the professional photographer did not reset the date/time on his camera to reflect local time before he/she began shooting, highly unlikely. All thats required to find out if the images have the timestamps as alleged is for the agencies to release the RAW photo to a 3rd party for verification, as any simple desktop app that can read photos can read embedded EXIF meta tags.

94 zulubaby  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:45:37pm
Thank god for the great work that people are doing in their pajamas.

J. Lichty, you are awesome :-)

95 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:45:59pm

#64 - Thank god for the great work that people are doing in their pajamas.

Actually, I am in my bathing suit. Sometimes I am not :)

96 Liz Ard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:46:07pm

#78 ward cleaver

CNN is the mouthpiece of the enemy.

It is al jazeera west.

/I don't know why I watch it.

97 gameface  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:46:33pm

Israel is the canary in the mine. We must crush Iran and Syria now.

98 SaneInMN  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:46:41pm
Israeli forces launched a massive offensive against Lebanon after Hizbollah kidnapped two of its soldiers

no mention of the eight soldiers killed by the subhumans...

Most of the victims of the conflict have been Lebanese civilians.

I wonder if al-reuters can give us a breakdown of the people killed by Israel in Lebanon? Seems to me "most" terrorists don civilian clothing, while launching attacks at civilian targets. Also, it doesn't quite jive with figures posted at counterterrorismblog.org, such as todays news...

3 IDF soldiers killed, up to 25 wounded - at least 10 Hezbollah killed

No doubt many members of hezbollah are Lebanese civilians, and so, maybe al-reuters report of such "civilians" bearing the brunt of Israels invasion are accurate...and I'm fine with such civilians cooling down to room temperature ASAP!

99 snagler  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:47:39pm

#73

yeah, i bet....just like Hitler's 'Final Solution'....
rat bastards, all....

100 MandyManners  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:47:41pm

Pay no heed to the man behind the curtain.

101 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:48:11pm

#67

AP contact info to AP SVP:

Kathleen Carroll, Senior Vice President, Executive Editor
450 W. 33rd Street
New York, NY 10001
Phone: 212-621-1610

Email: kcarroll@ap.org

102 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:48:16pm
103 Amalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:49:06pm

86 tfk

THIS SHIT IS NOT NEW, ITS JUST STILL EVIL.

Exactly.

Thanks, TFK

*Amazing that Kerry, the man whose best buddy, George Butler, took over 10,000 photos of Kerry since the early 70's and make a documentary,"Going Upriver" about Kerry, that there is not one decent photo of Kerry "throwing" his medals, "in protest" of the war, over the White House Gate.

*Remember how Kerry admitted that while in Vietnam he had his crew help him "reenact" earlier "scuffles" with the Viet Cong for his 16mm camera.

104 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:49:16pm
105 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:50:10pm

#70 VIA - Is the MSM getting more sensitive to the innernut, or are we getting better about getting the story out?

Well, I for one emailed this story together with links and pictures to 4 or 5 addresses at Foxnews and Ynet late last night and wrote an email to CNN commenting on the blood/maggots story.

I know Ynet responded, because they ran the story almost immediately - it was online by 7 EST. And I think they alone have done two today.

Also, notice that Reuters gets a lot of news here. We don't track the other news companies, but I bet that drop in too.

106 Mike C.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:50:23pm

I don't trust this timestamp issue. Is it possible there was more than one camera involved ? And that they were set to different time zones, or never properly set at all ? That doesn't address any of the other issues, of course, but it seems like a viable out on this one, if the press only had wit to use it.

107 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:50:36pm
108 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:51:10pm

#93 smfoushee

Timestamps on a digital photo are stored as part of the RAW format (we'll assume news agencies require photogs to shoot in RAW and not compressed JPEGs) within the EXIF meta data and the only way this stamp would be inaccurate is if the professional photographer did not reset the date/time on his camera to reflect local time before he/she began shooting, highly unlikely. All thats required to find out if the images have the timestamps as alleged is for the agencies to release the RAW photo to a 3rd party for verification, as any simple desktop app that can read photos can read embedded EXIF meta tags.

We need to start demanding a forensic examination of AP etc.'s server logs.

Which will mysteriously disappear shortly, of course.

109 shug  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:51:12pm

91

staged staged staged

remember Oklahoma city? How long did it take to remove some of those bodies?
Look at any earthquake in the middle east.

you do not remove bodies with a shovel......and if you do you are removing pieces of bodies ( like what we had in NYC after Islamofascists crashed planes into the WTC )

Want to see a child who had some building land on her?

110 fireangel  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:51:18pm

The dead baby pictures were very distressing mainly because the poor tyke was being shown off like some sort of effing trophy. Poor little thing paraded around so ghouls could take it's pictures. Where were the mothers of those children?

MSM needs a reality check.

111 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:51:56pm

#96 Liz Ard

Probably the same reason I watch Nightline.

Know thine enemy.

112 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:53:28pm

#110 fireangel

Where were the mothers of those children?

Celebrating their children's martyrdom. Sick animals.

113 Amalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:54:28pm

106 Mike C

I agree. A time stamp is up to whoever programs in the date and time.. usually the owner of the camera..

Incredibly easy to be inaccurate..

Hi Mike..

114 American Infidel[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:54:37pm
115 LemonJoose  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:54:42pm

I think many photojournalists employed by be big press-services do engage in posing photographs to make them more dramatic, and some of them clearly do have an agenda and are not covering their subjects in an objective manner. However, that being said, the time-stamps themselves don't prove anything. Is that the time-stamp from the camera itself, the photographer's laptop, the time they last saved the image file after cropping or editing it, or the time-stamp from when they uploaded or e-mailed the picture? And in each case, was the time set correctly, and was the time zone set to Lebanese time, GMT, or was it still set to the time zone of the photographer's home country? Did the publisher of the photograph convert the time -stamp to the equivalent local time when they published it, or did they leave it as recorded in the original time-stamp?

However, if it turns out that it is a pretty universal standard in the industry for time-stamps to be in done in a way that allows the press-service and publishers to accurately tell when each picture was taken, then these photogs and the press-agencies have some explaining to do.

116 pegcity  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:54:47pm
#70 Village Idiot's Apprentice 8/1/2006 02:32PM PDT
Zombie is right about calling the MSM to task.
Now I need help from those of you with better memories than mine.

What was the timeline from the first Blog twitches about Rathergate till the MSM said that there might be some issues in the blogisphere about the TANG memos?

Now compare that to this statement and the timeline.
Is the MSM getting more sensitive to the innernut, or are we getting better about getting the story out?



Look at the Mel gibson DUI, if it weren't for the TMZ and their police report this would never have gotten out, the net are the only people actually doing any fact checking now, and if the gibson incident says anything its that the blogsphere is gaining major traction, so much so that CNN and the other alphabet suits are playing catch up or lying their asses off because they have no story

117 J.D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:55:00pm

Did today's al-Reuters #2 check in after Charles posted this?

I'm a little bit surprised any of they responded, so I'm more than a little surprised they all did.

And surprise is in limited supply these days...

118 Sam I Am  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:55:33pm
An AFP executive said he was stunned to be questioned about it. Reuters, in a statement, said it categorically rejects any such suggestion.

How dare you question us!?! We are the MSM!

You ignorant little peons should just shut up and know your place.

Now be gone or we will have to remind you again that we -- the MSM -- are (to paraphrase Kim Il Jong from the movie "Team America") the smartest people in the world!

/roleplaying off

119 American Infidel[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:56:01pm
120 Catttt  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:56:29pm

Anyone else wonder why the hell only the baby is covered with dirt? Maybe because they took him to the cellar and dug a hole, put him in it, then "discovered" him there?

All the other children's bodies are free of dirt - in particular, their hair has no dirt, whereas this baby is dipped in dirt.

Hmmmm?

And who put the nice clean blue pacifier on him? It sure wasn't on him when he was dipped in dirt.

121 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:56:47pm

See UP - (who is cheerfully holding up a headless corpse of a baby in a 1996 newswire pic)

This picture really bothers me. The reason that it bothers me is because I saw an extremely similar picture from this conflict a week or two ago. A woman was holding the headless baby in a full face shot nearly identical to the full face I found last night of Green Helmet. But I can't find the pic - clue anyone?

IE the Getty archives, I did do a bit of that last night, found one other 1996 pic of Green Helmet that is a full frontal headless baby shot. The problem with the news photo archives is that most of them are subscription only and the subscription is way beyond my pocketbook.

122 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:57:07pm
123 Stormy  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:58:08pm
where 56 Lebanese were killed

And this is still being reported as fact even as Charles reported:

The Red Cross published that 28 corpses were evacuated from Qana, 19 of which were children. The report clashes with the Lebanese report that 57 people were killed.

124 Mike C.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:58:27pm

Hi Amalie.

125 mbruce  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:58:36pm

Yup,they know they have been nailed. I also heard that no one in the press was allowed near the rubble,there were no injured people,only dead ( they tell no tales) the press was gathered in preparation of the "rescue" mission and they did not go in until all of the staging was complete,wasting no time actually looking for bodies but going direclty to where they already knew bodies were planted. I would bet that Mr Green Helmet was one of the stagers as he already knew which choice corpses he wanted to display to the media fools.

126 Black George Bush  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:58:50pm

its the seriousness of the charge!
/dan rather off

127 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:59:33pm
128 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 12:59:51pm

Isn't the guy in this Getty image the t-shirt guy? He sure looks like Green Helmet Guy's sidekick.

129 NoSubmission  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:00:25pm

Yea!

What #6 said:

mother fucking Goebbels pieces of shit
130 Bad Penny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:00:37pm
Reposting this question, I would really like to know. Anyone out there who knows whether it really is common practice for news photos to be timestamped by time of posting rather than time of taking?

I went and looked at news photos on Yahoo, and there are many photos that were obviously taken at night that have daylight-hours time stamps. Look at the Cuba slide show. There are pictures of people at night with time stamps of this afternoon.

From this I think it is safe to conclude that the time on the photo is what time it was uploaded.

131 Catttt  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:00:57pm

In case this has not been covered -

IMHO, a really damning piece of evidence is that we have the "Qana Massacre" of 1996, complete with corpse pics (with the same guy holding up a corpse). Now we have "Qana 2."

I see children, if not dead children, transported to this specific place on purpose - to create "Qana 2 - the sequel." Put the tikes in the building, then shoot rockets from the building. Instant sequel.

What a coinkydink. Not.

132 so.cal.swede  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:01:10pm

#43 BabbaZee

Cool! I just wrote and sent one!

133 equable  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:01:23pm

This picture sums it up perfectly.

[Link: media.urbandictionary.com...]

134 mbruce  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:02:27pm

The blogosphere is now the greatest forensic service for dissecting media BS. The MSM is still twitching but it has a bad case of gangrene.Time to put the evil little demon out of its misery.

135 so.cal.swede  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:02:47pm

#131 Catttt

any links?

136 Amalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:02:51pm

Ploome

Hi Ploome...

(waves across the ethernet)

137 NoSubmission  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:03:13pm

Do you think Mr. Green Helmet knows he's been outed yet?

138 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:03:20pm

By the time they admit the photos were staged, they'll just MoveOn and stage another fraud.

139 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:03:51pm

#122 ploome

Ted's not on there anymore. Now it's Cynthia McFadden, Martin Bashir (the Michael Jackson documentary guy), and one other guy (can't remember his name) who used to sub for Ted alot.

Different people, same BS.

140 Bad Penny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:04:02pm
In reading my response, I agree that you were right. That didn't come out the way it was intended. Sorry about that...

Hey there, missy. We'll have none of that mature behaviour here! This is the internet, after all. You're supposed to call her a nazi asshat.

/shakes fist

141 formercorpsman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:04:05pm

Someone up in the post coined it.

Qanagate.

142 Doss  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:04:09pm

Baz in August, 2006

"Do you really think these people would risk their lives under Israeli shelling to set up a digging ceremony for dead Lebanese kids?" asked Patrick Baz, Mideast photo director for AFP. "I'm totally stunned by first the question, and I can't imagine that somebody would think something like that would have happened."

Baz in April, 2006

Patrick Baz, AFP's photo director for Iraq, is based in Cyprus. He said in an interview, "We don't hire them for [their skills as] reporters; we hire them because we can't go there.... We teach them and try to explain to them what a real reporter is. Some become real reporters, some do it for money, some are involved in the insurgency ... or terrorist activities, but we stop them when we find them going too far." Baz declined to provide examples of what he considers unacceptable behavior. AFP is nevertheless well positioned to control its stringers, he said, because its editors speak Arabic, and local stringers "can't trick us the way they trick non-Arab-speaking persons."

143 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:05:36pm

Anyone consider there could be Green Helmet Guy and Green Helmut Guy's evil twin?

If it cannot be disproven, it must be so.

144 The Monster  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:05:44pm

#53 Ward Cleaver

The "Fairness Doctrine" is just another form of "Proportional Response", and is blatantly unconstitutional.

What part of "Congress shall make no law" don't they understand?

145 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:05:46pm

115 LemonJoose

However, if it turns out that it is a pretty universal standard in the industry for time-stamps to be in done in a way that allows the press-service and publishers to accurately tell when each picture was taken, then these photogs and the press-agencies have some explaining to do.

Betcha there is, due to COPYRIGHT issues!

146 norar  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:05:50pm

IMO, the biggest give away is the fact that "editors" and "executives" absolutely reject the allegations, without even pretending to investigate them.

147 TotallySirius  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:06:07pm

God bless the blogosphere.

Without it we would have to swallow,without question, the garbage that the antique media tries to feed us.

Not everything we see on the web is true,that's the beauty of it,you get all the stories and if you have any deductive ability at all then you can sort out the truth.

148 NoSubmission  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:07:23pm

#143 Jammiewearingfool

Methinks there's a Mr. Green Helmet University.

149 J.D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:07:48pm
God bless the blogosphere.


Amen.

150 BenZacharia  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:08:00pm

50 Bill Jefferson 8/1/2006 02:20PM PDT

Any comment on the miraculously clean blue binky? Only sick people would pose their own dead children that way. Only sick people would pose anyone's dead children that way

19 hours ago on the overnite thread

151 TotallySirius  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:08:56pm

I wonder how soon we'll again hear moonbats braying the old saw that the blogosphere has no accountability?

If they are true to form,they should start this weekend.

Ooooooooops,I'm too late again,they've already started.

152 Charles  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:09:18pm

See my update: digital cameras automatically record a timestamp for each and every photograph. The wire services do have this information.

153 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:09:53pm

Does Green Helmet have a trusty sidekick?

154 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:10:20pm

13 Amalie

106 Mike C

I agree. A time stamp is up to whoever programs in the date and time.. usually the owner of the camera..

Incredibly easy to be inaccurate..

These images get uploaded to a database server somewhere.

Servers generally keep time logs for uploads.

Will AP allow a forensic examination of their image databases, I ask?

155 J.D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:10:29pm

#152 Charles
Then it should be very easily produced by them.

Shouldn't be too long now...

156 Amalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:11:02pm

Jammie

Hey Jammie.. I've been thinking the same thing as you. Does this guy have a twin?

They all look alike to me..

157 Dave the.....  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:11:32pm

The anti-Israeli types are good for creating news images. Charles had a thread last....let's say fall. First photo was a close-up of a crying female Palo by the Wall-of-Destruction. It looked like a sad candid photo.

Next photo was taking a few yards back and from above. It showed about a dozen MSM photographers crowding around her, all taking her picture at the same time. Their lenses were about 2 feet from her face as she calmly posed.

158 ibrodsky  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:11:56pm

Reports that Israel is conducting a huge, surprise attack in the Bekaa Valley with dozens of helicopters landing troops...

IDF commandos conducting raid deep in Lebanon

159 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:12:33pm

#145 Betcha there is, due to COPYRIGHT issues!

There are also legal issues. If any of these pictures were to be used in court, for example, the exact time and date the picture is taken is what would allow it to be used as evidence.

160 zulubaby  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:13:10pm

What is a blue binky?

161 Amalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:13:20pm

154 sms111

What they upload the old photos at the same time as the new ones to the database..

Kind of a reload?

162 Doss  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:13:24pm
Patrick Baz, Mideast photo director for AFP


If this is true, maybe Baz is (a) getting a little too friendly with terrorists and (b) harbors a grudge against Israel.

On October 18, 2000:
Israeli occupation troops shot at Patrick Baz, a photographer of France Press, wounding him with a rubber-coated metal bullet in the hand. This incident took place while he was covering clashes between Palestinian civilians and the Israeli occupation forces in Ramallah.

163 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:13:29pm

#159 galloping granny

#145 Betcha there is, due to COPYRIGHT issues!

There are also legal issues. If any of these pictures were to be used in court, for example, the exact time and date the picture is taken is what would allow it to be used as evidence.

Indeed.

164 J.D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:13:30pm

zulubaby

A blue baby pacifier.

165 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:13:35pm

I just loaded up 300+ photos, all timestamped (geez, didn't realize I have done that since April).

Anyway, the wire services have that info, as Charles notes.

Show us the photos.

Oh man, better erase some of those before my wife gets back.

166 quark2  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:13:38pm

How many of these dead children got up and walked back home, just like the one who fell out of his casket and crawled back into it over in
the Gaza strip.
The terrorists lie about everything, including
the reported deaths of their children.
The west needs to start looking at things the same way they do, in order to understand how they tick, it's called recognizing the enemy.

167 Catttt  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:14:15pm

135 so.cal.swede

Speculation links:

[Link: web.israelinsider.com...]

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

Obviously, to have proof, we'd need to be a fly on the wall at Hez HQ.

A big problem here is the terrorists can fake stuff up and get headlines and sympathy. MSM not only allows this - they cause this - they are part of it. It's Dirty Laundry, in spades.

You don't really need to find out what's going on
You don't really want to know just how far it's gone
Just leave well enough alone, keep your dirty laundry

Kick 'em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're stiff, kick 'em all around

Dirty little secrets, dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybody's pie
Love to cut you down to size, we love dirty laundry

We can do the innuendo, we can dance and sing
When it's said and done, we haven't told you a thing
We all know that crap is king, give us dirty laundry

~Don Henley

We can poke holes in these stories but cannot get the evidence in hand, since the evidence is not under our control. Even big, gaping holes are not going to be covered by the world, which will be running completely unprovenanced pictures forever.

It sucks.

168 Amalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:14:19pm

A blue binky is usually some child's baby blanket.. but this could be referring to something else?

169 energyforcapital  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:14:20pm
137 NoSubmission-
Do you think Mr. Green Helmet knows he's been outed yet?

Do you mean if he hasn't already died sometime in the last ten years?

170 Mike C.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:14:50pm

And once again. I am not everwhelmed by the disparity between the Red Cross evacuation numbers and the Lebanese government number for people killed. The remainder could have been buried locally. Doesn't make the Lebanese government numbers necessarily correct, of course, but it would hardly be surprising.

171 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:15:08pm

158 ibrodsky

Reports that Israel is conducting a huge, surprise attack in the Bekaa Valley with dozens of helicopters landing troops...

IDF commandos conducting raid deep in Lebanon

Might that be the same Bekaa where the Iraqi WMD's were taken?

172 Charles  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:15:52pm

Also, it's extremely unlikely that a professional photographer for a news service would have an inaccurate time programmed into his/her digital camera.

173 RadicalRon  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:15:57pm
174 zulubaby  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:16:00pm

I don't believe what I just read -- the Palestinians are really depraved.

The IDF reported that the 14-year-old boy was involved in the launching of Kassam rockets into Israel.

They don't give birth to children, they give birth to cannon fodder.

175 BenZacharia  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:16:50pm

76 Golem Akbar


Finally getting somewhere. This Qana thing has actually turned some friends of mine, formerly supporters of Israel, into doubters. I have tried to explain what I understood, and give them links, but the PR is really bad. Go bloggers, go!

Got news for you, IF Israel had bombed a Hospital they are in the clear.

Laws of war forbid perfidy, one case is dressing like and or using civilians for cover.

The babes are in heaven the fighters are in HELL and all is right in my world.

.

176 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:17:15pm
177 zulubaby  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:17:52pm

J.D., thanks.

--

The IDF are telling Lebanese residents to evacuate.

178 mbruce  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:18:58pm

Rayra,do you treally hing the Pulitzer or Nobel Peace prize mean anything to right-thinking people anymore?

179 Catttt  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:19:24pm

168 Amalie

The binky is the pacifier on a cord around the dead baby's neck. The corpse is covered with dirt - the pacifier is clean.

180 Amalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:19:30pm

172 Charles

Well that's true... a "professional" photographer...

181 Bob's Kid  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:19:50pm
These are just the first cracks in the facade.

I do hope so!

182 ibmkeyboard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:19:52pm
LOS ANGELES - Actor Mel Gibson on Tuesday apologized for making anti-Semitic remarks after his recent arrest for drunken driving and asked to meet with members of the Jewish community to begin a "path for healing."

"There is no excuse, nor should there be any tolerance, for anyone who thinks or expresses any kind of anti-Semitic remark," Gibson said in a statement.


"I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law enforcement officer the night I was arrested," he added.

You got to admit,
Old Mel knows who butters his bread.

But The Dixie Chicks are smarter and more popular than Mel.

183 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:20:13pm
184 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:20:19pm

I'm sure it's the same on any program, but I'm using Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album right now. If you want details, click nder view, then click show image details.

You get image info, camera settings, details, file size, etc.

I know enough professional photographers, so I'll check with them.

185 Pickle  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:20:36pm

Another day, another "mainstream" media Big Lie exposed by the new media. What I find fascinating about this episode, though, is that this time the bloggers aren't just taking on one American phoney-baloney "news" organization such as CBS or the New York Slimes--it's the hallowed international press agencies. The big boys.

Should be fun watching them fall.

186 Amalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:20:40pm

Catttt

Thanks Cattt...

/temporary amnesia on my part..

187 Crimsonfisted  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:20:48pm

They never learn. Dan Rather resigned in disgrace, and these people will too eventually. Stunned and categorically reject my lily white, fat, American, Christian a$$! Too bad boys. You are busted.

188 energyforcapital  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:21:04pm

172-Charles

Ex-freekin-zactly! besides, even if they tried to now claim that they "never bother with the time setting on their cameras", even this would probably be fairly easy to verify by examining the time stamps on their work prior to Qana.

189 -=@$$=-  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:21:23pm

we can pick through every pixel of each of these photos, an that may yield some facts in itself, but what is apparent an irrefutable prior to any detailed examination is that these cadavers are being posed for the camera. that's a transgression there.

if there's a scoop to be found beyond that, it may emerge from the speculation that cadavers from previous bombarments are being stored and carted around to augment the photo shoots at later airstrike sites.

i was reading below from a cnn report about bodies being temporarily interned in mass graves in tyre. the copy was deliberately lurid all the way through, but i was interested to hear of how the bodies were in an advanced state of decpomposition, with body bags spewing forth liquid putrescence and maggots. were these bodies perhaps at the end of their "tour"?

i wouldn't send anything like that ut on company letterhead of course, but if someone were in fact able to confirm that that was going on, i wouldn't be even slightly surprised.

190 BenZacharia  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:21:49pm

On the Dreaded Blue Binky, I remarked last night that it was clean right down to its spotless nipple.

191 Bob's Kid  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:22:12pm

And OT, if Nana is still on...how's your daughter doing?

192 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:22:42pm
193 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:23:18pm

Hi Amalie,

156 Amalie 8/1/2006 03:11PM PDT

Jammie

Hey Jammie.. I've been thinking the same thing as you. Does this guy have a twin?

They all look alike to me..

Long time, no speak. How's things?

Maybe they're all graduates of the Green Helmet Guy School, not to be confused with the Saddam Double School.

194 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:24:11pm
195 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:24:49pm

182 ibmkeyboard

"There is no excuse, nor should there be any tolerance, for anyone who thinks or expresses any kind of anti-Semitic remark," Gibson said in a statement.

"I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law enforcement officer the night I was arrested," he added.

You got to admit,
Old Mel knows who butters his bread.

But The Dixie Chicks are smarter and more popular than Mel.

I reiterate from an earlier thread,

Why is everyone pickin' on Mel? He was drunk and I for one discount what people say when heavilty lushed. It's because he's a religious Christian, that's why.

Meanwhil, Rev'rund Jack-suhn, Al Sharpton, et al make antisemitic statements and incite Jewish store burning sober and nothing much happens to them.

196 Cartman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:25:22pm

I think this musing may have been voiced here already, but this timestamp stuff is really bugging me. I'm not at all a photographer, but I do own a digital camera. I am taking a small leap in making the assumption that these photographers also use high-end digital equipment. They must be able to download and transmit their images in a matter of hours, if not minutes. When a digital image is stored on a computer drive, the operating system (at least Windows XP does) interprets the "header" information placed within the decoded/encoded image created by the manufacturer of the camera's flash software.

For example, I have many digital photos I have taken stored on my hard drive. If I call up an image folder (in XP), open it and mouse over any one of my images the following example of information is displayed:

Dimensions: 2048 x 1536
Date Picture Taken: 6/24/2006 6:19PM
Camera Model: Canon Powershot A70
Type: JPEG Image
Size: 2.07 MB

I have confirmed that the date information on the photos I sampled is accurate.

If the investigation into this potential ruse gets hot and heavy, wouldn't it stand to reason that pressure might be applied to these "news" agencies to release the original images from the downloaded target hard drive? I know, I'm blowin' a lot of smoke here, but as I mentioned, it's been bugging me. Feel free to shoot holes all through my proposition!

197 fireangel  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:25:35pm

Binky=pacifier

198 TotallySirius  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:25:37pm

#190 BenZ

Hey,I saw Spotless Nipple play at the AlRosaVilla in '85.

199 Ann  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:25:43pm

The Wire Services, and AFP is trying to break into that realm, have way too much unquestionable and unverifiable power.

200 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:26:26pm
201 ibmkeyboard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:26:36pm
HELENA, Mont. - A nephew of Sen. Max Baucus (news, bio, voting record) serving in the Marines was killed in
Iraq during the weekend, the senator's office said Tuesday.

Cpl. Phillip E. Baucus, 28, died Saturday during combat operations in Anbar province, the
Department of Defense said. It did not immediately release further information.

In a statement, Baucus, D-Mont., said the family was "devastated by the loss."

"Phillip was an incredible person, a dedicated Marine, a loving son and husband, and a proud Montanan and American," the senator said. "He heroically served the country he loved and he gave it his all."

USMC, standing tall on that wall Bro.

202 Cog  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:27:12pm

Nikon has a new image authentication software title that tells you which camera took a photo, exactly when it was taken, and if the image has been altered. Not sure if Canon has this capability yet. A free trial download is available from Nikon for the D2X camera.

[Link: nikonimaging.com...]

Image Authentication Software is designed exclusively for use with the Nikon D2Xs digital SLR. It enables the authentication of an image captured by the camera and can determine whether or not it has been altered since capture, verifying the image as well as information attached to it.

Quick and easy verification of authenticity
Permits verification via a personal computer as to whether an image has been processed or edited after it was taken. Thumbnails of the images selected in the results display area are displayed for confirmation.

Protection of the software itself
Various code protections are employed to prevent alterations to the software program. And to further improve reliability when using this software, both a product key and a USB key are required. The USB key must be plugged into the USB port to commence application.

Three file formats can be verified
The software enables verification of JPEG, TIFF and NEF (RAW) data taken using a Nikon digital SLR compatible with the authentication function.

Just an FYI, Al Jazeera's English and Arabic websites have been recycling simply horrific images and using them each time there is an attack, or an anti-American news story. They use stock images of dead women and children with simply horrific captions if no current photo is available to exploit the situation. And it usually does not matter if it was an American or if it was an insurgent responsible for the civilians deaths. To Al Jazeera, all the deaths are America's fault.

203 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:28:07pm
204 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:29:34pm
205 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:29:45pm
206 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:29:56pm

183 buzzsawmonkey

So...what copyright issues do you imagine to be at play here?

Probably better to say time stamping is done due to potential IP issues and legal disputes.

207 Super Jew  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:30:11pm

#41 journeyscarab

Dude, that's so funny...as soon as I saw this piece, I was ready to write a post declaring shenanigans - but you beat me to it.

I looked up the original South Park script where the exchange took place, and I noticed something kind of funny. When Kyle declares shenanigans on the crooked carny (today's journalists certainly do exude a sort of carny-like sense of showmanship, don't you think?), Officer Barbrady hears his complaint and says:

If that is true, then your declaration of Shenanigans is just. What do you have to say, carnival operator?

Anyway, the carny switches the fixed game for a fair one, Kyle wins, and here's the really crazy part. Barbrady reprimands Kyle, saying:

Young man, you can't just go declaring Shenanigans on innocent people! That's how wars get started!

Eh? Ehhhhh?

208 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:30:23pm
209 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:31:18pm
210 Cartman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:31:46pm

Ooops. I spent so much time putting my last post together I missed the subsequent additional comments to the thread.

I need to stick to my customary one or two sentence drive-by posts. ;-D

/nevermind

211 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:31:52pm
212 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:31:53pm

OT:

Israel apparently tried to take out or snatch a senior Hizbullah leader in Baalbek in the Bekaa Valley.

Lebanese army and security officials said early Wednesday that special IDF forces attempted to kidnap Sheikh Muhammad Yazbek, a member of Hizbullah’s High Council and one of 12 senior organization members, near Baalbek in the west Bekaa Valley.

According to reports, the operation began with at least six rapid air strikes, after which IAF choppers attempted to land ground forces in the city’s western sector.

A Lebanese army outpost in the town of Shlifa, west of Baalbek, was also attacked.

The Lebanese officials estimated that the IDF forces planned to kidnap the sheikh from the Dar el-Hichma hospital, located north of Baalbek; Yazbek was reportedly surrounded by other senior Hizbullah members.

Current reports say the kidnapping attempt failed and gun battles are taking place at the scene.

213 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:32:02pm

RE Image info - I do happen to own some very high end grahics programs, so I just ran a couple of the pics I had saved through one of them. No embedded watermark, no author/copyright information.

Probably due to the images being displayed on the web being small, low resolution images. Which also severely limits the amount they can be blown up to read details.

214 BenZacharia  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:32:08pm

195 sms111

How drunk is .12? Not talkin' 'bout DUI. As far as picking, do you mean here or MSM?

.

215 sissyblue  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:32:59pm

Amazing... I smell another "Rathergate"! We need an LGF News Network, sort of the right wing version of left wing CNN:>)

216 formercorpsman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:34:01pm

#196 Cartman

I agree with you.

The more I get myself involved with this, the more it stinks.

I am pondering putting a video together as this presents the argument better than just text.

Something is just not right with this.

217 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:34:49pm

#211 rayra The suspect time of their deaths complicates its being used as a judgement tool.

I am not sure what you mean here rayra. The obvious evidence of full rigor in some of these pictures is what causes the time of death to be suspect, not the other way around.

Clarify?

218 sagamoregal  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:34:58pm

#157 - Next photo was taking a few yards back and from above. It showed about a dozen MSM photographers crowding around her, all taking her picture at the same time. Their lenses were about 2 feet from her face as she calmly posed.

If more of our Paliwood types would stop following Momma Moonbat around and start taking acting lessons from the well-rehearsed, legendary Mohammaden actors and actresses, Lord knows the quality of films on this side of the pond might improve.

219 BenZacharia  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:35:44pm

Totally...

For some reason I gravitaed to Zacharias Red Eye Saloon, Go figure.

binky linky

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

220 Ann  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:36:45pm

#209 ploome hineni

Israeli is bombing in the Bekka Valle near a HOSPITAL

And I wonder what we have some intel about what's stored in that "hospital"?

I have been so anxious for us to get to the Bekka Valley, and now we are. Great news!

221 Cartman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:37:17pm

#208 ploome

is there any way to compel the news agencies to release this info?

Legally, I'm not at all sure. As we all know, the press fights tooth and nail to "protect a source". But I fail to see how an inanimate, physical piece of data could ever be considered a "source". I guess I was just thinking that if the MSM really wanted to put this to bed, they'd be more than happy to divulge additional technical information on the photos.

222 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:37:53pm

#214 BenZacharia

195 sms111

How drunk is .12? Not talkin' 'bout DUI. As far as picking, do you mean here or MSM?

Mabe something else was going on (drugs? mental?), but I doubt Gibson goes around spewing that kind of talk every day. Something was amiss.

As opposed to Jesse and Al (although their baseline may be mental).

223 ibmkeyboard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:38:44pm
#204 buzzsawmonkey

#201 ibmkeyboard

Looking forward to seeing Michael Moore's lights punched out the next time he asks members of Congress about family members in the military.

Or anytime, really.

I heard he was coming to Charlotte NC. If He does, and If I can get close enough, I am going to Bitch slap the shit out of him.
You lizards will get to see my picture in the papers, and I will get to use the Prison computer for a couple hours untill I make bond.

/cant fng wait.

224 uncle_monkey  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:39:00pm

Din'cha get the memo?

AP et al went back to old Nikon F's and Kodachrome 400 ASA just for July and August.

They found an old refrigerator full of the stuff, and got all nostalgic.

Of course, after they scan the transparencies, they must be destroyed.

225 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:39:01pm
226 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:39:16pm
227 Bob's Kid  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:39:32pm
Shouldn't be too long now...

Ha!

I love sarcasm.

228 BenZacharia  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:40:06pm

Posted last night. Is the guy 3rd from the right, second row, green helmet?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

.

229 Catttt  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:40:35pm

214 BenZacharia

It depends on the drinker's physiology, but in general terms, here is an alcohol tolerance table:

0.01 - 0.05 Subclinical Behavior nearly normal by ordinary observation
0.03 - 0.12 Euphoria Mild euphoria, sociability, talkitiveness
Increased self-confidence; decreased inhibitionsDiminution of attention, judgment and control
Beginning of sensory-motor impairment
Loss of efficiency in finer performance tests
0.09 - 0.25 Excitement Emotional instability; loss of critical judgment
Impairment of perception, memory and comprehension
Decreased sensitory response; increased reaction time
Reduced visual acuity; peripheral vision and glare recovery
Sensory-motor incoordination; impaired balance
Drowsiness
0.18 - 0.30 Confusion Disorientation, mental confusion; dizziness
Exaggerated emotional states
Disturbances of vision and of perception of color, form, motion and dimensions
Increased pain threshold
Increased muscular incoordination; staggering gait; slurred speech
Apathy, lethargy
0.25 - 0.40 Stupor General inertia; approaching loss of motor functions
Markedly decreased response to stimuli
Marked muscular incoordination; inability to stand or walk
Vomiting; incontinence
Impaired consciousness; sleep or stupor
0.35 - 0.50 Coma Complete unconsciousness
Depressed or abolished reflexes
Subnormal body temperature
Incontinence
Impairment of circulation and respiration
Possible death
0.45 + Death Death from respiratory arrest

Source: [Link: www.intox.com...]

230 ibrodsky  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:41:04pm

#209 ploome hineni

Israeli is bombing in the Bekka Valle near a HOSPITAL

/here we go again

Supposedly, the Hezbos are using the hospital as a command center.

Typical immoral Muslim behavior.

231 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:41:38pm
#202 cog Just an FYI, Al Jazeera's English and Arabic websites have been recycling simply horrific images and using them each time there is an attack, or an anti-American news story. They use stock images of dead women and children with simply horrific captions if no current photo is available to exploit the situation. And it usually does not matter if it was an American or if it was an insurgent responsible for the civilians deaths. To Al Jazeera, all the deaths are America's fault.

Document this (Save as the web pages, which will automatically save the pics) and we'll help break that story too.

232 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:41:44pm

215 sissyblue

Amazing... I smell another "Rathergate"!

Agreed. It's pretty damn obvious.

We lizardoids need to decide an accepted name for this new scandal.

Qanagate as coined by others is good, but the "gate" part is getting old. How about "QanaDan"?

233 Walpurgis Knight  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:41:55pm

a photo by AP’s Lefteris Pitarakis

How appriate. An AP guy's name is Left.

234 Wm T Sherman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:42:34pm

#75 American Infidel

Many of the photographs at Getty have identical creation dates. Right now, many of them say that they were created at 12:00 am, with various submission dates. This suggests that the creation dates may be file creation dates, rather than image creation dates, i.e. the time of a large download of files. In some cases the submission dates are before the creation dates. (Time zones?) Example:

Copyright: 2006 Getty Images
By/Title: Spencer Platt/Staff
Date Created: 1 Aug 2006 12:00 AM
City, State, Country: Saida, , Lebanon
Credit: Getty Images
Collection: Getty Images News
Source: Getty Images Europe
Date Submitted: 1 Aug 2006 11:15 AM
File Size/Pixels/DPI: 537K/2002x3000/300

Keywords: EOS1DMkII-232958,war,conflict,lebanon,refugee,disp laced,un,poor,poverty,israel,middle east,71492037

Orientation: Horizontal
Object Name: 71492037SP018_Thousands_of_

235 journeyscarab  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:43:01pm

#207 Super Jew

ROFL!

Ironic isn't it? There are so many times South Park gets things right on the mark.

236 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:44:57pm
237 formercorpsman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:45:10pm

Rosanna, Rosanna Qanadana

238 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:45:40pm

226 buzzsawmonkey

#206 sms111

I'm not saying that there are no potential copyright issues.

I'm just saying I don't see any--and am therefore curious as to what copyright issues anyone might see.

Hmmm...copyright (control of dissemination, payment issues, etc.) could require proof of provenance. I'm sure there are situations where proving provenance of a photo is important, e.g., when only a few (or one) reporter caught the scene.

239 Ann  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:45:49pm

Off the top of my head as a paralegal, in order to have discovery and subpoena documents, records, etc. there need to be a civil suit brought forward. In order for a civil suit to have legs, there has to be clear harm done to the plaintiff.

Causing the falll of Western Civilization may be a bit too broad for most judges.

240 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:46:27pm
0.18 - 0.30 Confusion Disorientation, mental confusion; dizziness
Exaggerated emotional states
Disturbances of vision and of perception of color, form, motion and dimensions
Increased pain threshold
Increased muscular incoordination; staggering gait; slurred speech
Apathy, lethargy

Been there, done that.

But I still graduated cum laude.

241 zenbone  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:46:58pm

#36 EvilPundit

Here is a good post from the yahoo (!):

OK, Lets Say The photos Were Staged
by:the_peiner (26/M/Brooklyn NY) 08/01/06 06:07 pm
Msg: 32 of 39

That doesn't change the fact that Israel killed all those kids.

242 BenZacharia  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:47:44pm

#222 sms111 8/1/2006 03:37PM PDT
#214 BenZacharia


195 sms111

How drunk is .12? Not talkin' 'bout DUI. As far as picking, do you mean here or MSM?

Mabe something else was going on (drugs? mental?), but I doubt Gibson goes around spewing that kind of talk every day. Something was amiss.

As opposed to Jesse and Al (although their baseline may be mental).

Here's a flaw he has when sober, he's buddy buddy with Micheal Moore. Get your head around that one.

Guess were suppose to excuse Tedzilla now, he's an anti-Semite, but it's ok if your drunk. Has he ever been sober?

And you used the term Christian, show me in the Bible where it's say getting drunk is a disease instead of a sin?

.

243 sms111  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:48:44pm

241 zenbone

#36 EvilPundit

Here is a good post from the yahoo (!):

OK, Lets Say The photos Were Staged
by:the_peiner (26/M/Brooklyn NY) 08/01/06 06:07 pm
Msg: 32 of 39

That doesn't change the fact that Israel killed all those kids.

Ever-terrorist-trusting leftist morons.

244 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:48:49pm
245 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:50:04pm
246 uncle_monkey  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:50:35pm

BTW,
time is relative, if they do claim not setting the time on their cameras, there will still be "X" hours difference (or not)between shots.

So it doesn't matter the year month, day or hour. The shots the day before and the day after should all jibe-up.

That is unless they claim that they kept trying to reset the time on their cameras every few minutes that day, suddenly becoming aware of the importance but messing it up terribly.

247 republic  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:51:39pm

There needs to be a steady calling out of the kook msm, who are mostly liars, spinners and distorters of any and every news today, and for some time now.

They are also complicit with some of the most barbaric islmofascist terrorists around the world.

The joke is ultimately on them however, because the Power of Good, ALWAYS defeats the power of evil.

This is where they make their mistake.

They think that by being complicit with islamofascism, that they are now safe.

The problem with that, for them, is that islamofascism is sided with, aided, and inspired by the power of evil!

One day, every member of al-AP and al-Rueters, and the pussified Fwance news agency, will stand in Judgement of every word, thought, and action that they have ever had and taken.

248 ibmkeyboard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:52:59pm

.12,
Mel was lay down Austrialian Drunk.

Get OOOFF of the FNG road, DOBY

249 BenZacharia  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:53:00pm

Catttt

thank you for this

0.03 - 0.12
Euphoria Mild euphoria
sociability, talkitiveness
Increased self-confidence
decreased inhibitions
Diminution of attention
judgment and control

In other words in vino veritas

For those of you in Rio Linda that in wine, truth

Your are more, of who you are.

.

250 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:53:45pm
251 ibmkeyboard  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:53:54pm

Or down under drunk

252 Ann  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:55:03pm

Okay, the only viable harmed plaintiff would have to be the customers of the Wire Services.

The MSM.

253 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:56:30pm
254 realwest  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 1:59:03pm

Geez Charles, we've only had two visitors from Rueters today - hope we haven't offended the mofos or anything.
Haven't read the entire thread, but what is good about this, is that all the questions that have been asked by the EU Referendum blog are now "in play" and whether they want to or not AP, Al-Reuters and AFP will have to answer them, especially Charles "update point": "If the wire services truly want to settle the timing issue, all they need to do is release the actual timestamps from when the photographs were taken. Digital cameras automatically record this information in the photograph itself, so it would be a simple matter for the wires to provide it."
What's that sound I hear?

CRICKETS

255 Cartman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:00:00pm

#246 uncle_monkey

Good points. I'm going to use my simplistic experience with my own camera. I have only once set the date and time in my camera, and that was the day I bought it. The date/time stamps on all of my photos have always been accurate. I'm making a huge, and semi-ignorant assumption here, but the camera's flash memory maintains date/time synchronization. And everytime you connect the camera to your computer to download images via the maufacturers software, it appears to me that the camera's flash memory is updated through the computer's bios profile, including (in my case) changes in Daylight Savings Time. Left completely alone by the user of the camera, date/time data should be accurate, with allowances taken for a physical change in time zones relative to GMT.

256 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:00:36pm
257 J.D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:01:52pm

all-Reuters was offended.

258 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:02:32pm
259 BabbaZee  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:08:34pm

#173 RadicalRon 8/1/2006 03:15PM PDT
For the wire services only


Ohhh that was great.

260 Catawba  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:10:22pm

#210 Cartman

Ooops. I spent so much time putting my last post together I missed the subsequent additional comments to the thread.

I need to stick to my customary one or two sentence drive-by posts. ;-D

Actually, I thought your post 196 was a well-reasoned and valuable contribution to the thread.

261 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:14:35pm
262 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:21:38pm
263 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:23:55pm
264 Cartman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:34:08pm

#260 Catawba

Thank you for the kind words. Seems like I mostly post to the sound of one hand clapping, but I try! It's become cliché, but I personally am here at LGF for the most part to soak up news and knowledge, yet I can't resist being a part of the camaraderie. ;)

265 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:34:29pm
266 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:36:28pm
267 extrabob  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:37:43pm

#48 tigger
Why would they stamp a photo to show the time it was posted, not the time it was taken? What would be the point to this? Any photographers out there who know if this is a common practice?

With over 250 posts this may have been answered already, but I noticed that when I go to the Drudge Reuters wirephoto link, the photos are all time-stamped with the time they were posted online.

268 Ann  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:38:49pm

#263 rayra

And too many questionable biases and allegiances.

You did see the blatant quote by a Reuters Exec stating that "we are doing our best to level the playing field here" last year, regarding war coverage?

Just in case you didn't.

269 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:41:13pm
270 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:43:20pm
271 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:46:40pm
272 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:49:56pm
273 Geepers  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:54:42pm

This article is pathetic.

It addresses the time stamp issue only. And poorly at that. And that's not really the issue.

So who does AP interview to get the facts squared away?

Why AP's senior vice president and executive editor Kathleen Carroll.

And what did Kathleen do from her air conditioned office many thousands of miles from the scene?

Why she personally called AP photo editors, who assured her that nothing was amiss.

She then has the temerity to say:

It's hard to imagine how someone sitting in an air-conditioned office or broadcast studio many thousands of miles from the scene can decide what occurred on the ground with any degree of accuracy," said Kathleen Carroll.

So you admit that the only people that can get this straight are your photographers, who you didn't talk to.

Hey Kathleen, do you really think I going to now ignore what is clearly and obviously conflicting photographic evidence?

There are many more serious problems with these photos. That you've decided not to address any of them speaks volumes.

274 Bubbaman  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:58:42pm

They need to release the metadata now!

275 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 2:59:06pm

Hizz uses women, children, and elderly for the express purpose of disuading questions.

They learned their lesson well from the Soviet propaganda machine. They fully expect that anyone who questions the photos will be chastised for being unsympathetic, "What about the children?", etc.

276 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:01:31pm
#265 rayra Sure. Rigor can begin within several minutes to several hours, and last several days. If they'd died at the time of the ~1am strike, they could be in rigor when they were photographed. Conversely, if they'd died in a morning collapse of the building, they might not be in rigor yet at all. And on top of it all, variation between individuals means some can be in rigor, some cannot.

Theoretically, rayra - a fairly well documented theoretically BTW - given average temperatures & normal body temperatures there should be only minor variations between individuals killed at the same time in the same location by the same one event. Were this not the case we would not be able to use rigor as a factor in determination of time of death because it would be completely meaningless statistically.

277 insane_kufr  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:04:13pm

wait, in order for the time stamps to be accurate - the user must first bother to program the correct time/date stamp in the camera.
changing batteries, or failing to program the date/time will result in inaccurate times, or programming the camera in a different time zone.

that being said, I don't believe for a minute these ghoulish bastards have suffered these effects. they are ARABS!

Sympathetic to the islamicist cause - when listening to an islmo-fascist ARAB; remember, everything spoken is exactly opposite in reality.

Nuke Mecca NOW!

278 Ann  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:07:14pm

#277 insane_kufr

Nuke Mecca NOW!

Apropos nic.

Not a sound solution.

279 big L  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:09:04pm

14-#17--S-h-h-h-h, don't tell them...

280 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:11:35pm

#277 insane_kufr

Nuke Mecca NOW!

Idiot.

281 big L  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:13:45pm

remember the Pali funeral where the fisrt couple of shots show the casket or funeral sedan chair and then later aroundthe corner the kid on the casket is getting out and running away!

Also the Mexican illegal aliens march showed these protestors with a banner close up and then the "pulled back" view. That view shows the Yellow starred viet commie organizing it.
I think this was a ZOMBIE photo array.

282 Ann  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:15:25pm

#280 Sarah D.

At least the nutjobs here aren't making policy decisions. Even though some are deluded enough to think that they are.

We need to take comfort in that!

283 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:17:59pm

#282 Ann

Oh I do, idiots nontheless.

Freakin' Time again. More idiots.

284 big L  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:19:38pm

247 republic--the msm and elites will be killed first if they get in the way of the islam roller.

285 extrabob  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:19:49pm

#277 insane fukker
Nuke Mecca NOW!

Bad time to start throwing nukes around. Pakistan, North Korea, China, Russia all have nukes, too. Not to mention France. Let's keep Pandora's Box closed, OK?

286 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:23:37pm
287 mattm  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:26:56pm

They won't release the time stamp information, because they know it was staged and don't want to give blogs another win.

288 Ann  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:27:29pm

#283 Sarah D.

More idiots

It's the LLL's favorite argument: fighting back makes it worse. We should understand their pain.

I understand their pain: Anyone who does not buy the islamists' need for power, control, domination and world rule.

Pretty damn simple, but the MSM just wants to complicate and diffuse that fact.

289 Ann  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:29:45pm

#283 Sarah D.

Oh, I'm getting up. How's your beer?

:-)

290 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:32:34pm

#286 rayra - "Show me a citation"

Rayra you are interpreting rigor as a single event in time it is not. It is a standard bell curve. The point at which you would be seeing, as an example, an stiffened arm held straight up in the air is at 12-24 hours, not minutes after death and not 3 days later. Within that time frame there are individual variations. However, the 12 hours is the lower limit of normal and the 24 the upper limit of normal. Five minutes would be a truly drastic outlier. BTW, in medicine we work on a 95% confidence level.

As far as citations go, there really aren't many pathology textbooks online. I suggest you haul off to the nearest medical library.

291 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:33:52pm

#289 Ann

Yeah, I'm low - thanks. :D

History shows that arab culture will buckle meekly under the boot of a dictator, after having been unmercifully whipped and beaten.

We have no interest in being dictator (yeah you stupid liberals, read that again) so that type war is not in the game plan.

/not talking about what would happen should they try their shit here again.

292 Junior  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:34:30pm

All I have to say is... Charles, stay on this!

And Rush needs to keep it up to. Qanagate has begun.

I LOVE watching the MSM being destroyed before our eyes.

We The People, shall be victorious.

Screw the libs, screw the MSM, screw the UN, screw the terrorists and their enablers.

You worthless, worthless wastes of carbon.

Bite me, you lose.

When the UN comes to my door to take my gun... its empty the clips time.

/ramble off

293 Max DarkSide  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:35:06pm

I might mention that on Fox News, I saw a video clip from somewhere presumably in Lebanon where two men carried a man in his 30's on a stretcher over to a building. The two men put the man and stretcher down. Then I saw video cameramen (not Fox's) jog away from him, further down the building. Thus they had their backs to him as they jogged away. With the Fox camera still on him, the man on the stretcher got up and walked!

I wish I had that video.

294 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:36:23pm

Where is KevinV?

Israel Launches Attack Deep in Lebanon

Israel launched a major attack deep into Lebanon, and Hezbollah said its guerrillas were fighting Israeli commandos trapped inside a hospital in the eastern city of Baalbek early Wednesday.

The Israeli army would not comment on the operation in the ancient city, which was once a Syrian army headquarters some 80 miles north of Israel. The Web site of the Israeli daily Haaretz reported that "helicopters put down IDF (military) commandos near Baalbek," without adding details.

Is it a ground war now KevinV?

295 frankp_63  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:49:03pm

It seemes like a long time ago we were worrying about terrorists embedding messages inside image files.

Now it's the images themselves they're embedding
inside the news stream.

296 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 3:50:28pm

In cracking out my medical physiology book, Granny is pretty much correct in her assessments. Though other variables enter into the equation such as temperature, 12-24 hours is generally the excepted norm before the proteins (actin and myosin) begin to degrade.

297 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:02:05pm

#296 Addendum,

And my medical anatomy book uses 15-25 hours. I'd say Granny is correct.

I suppose as a medical student that should have been common knowledge, but I've found practical know-how would be worth much more.

Paramedics, nurses, CNA, etc...

298 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:10:17pm

Only with these nit wits would I think of something this gruesome.
How long does it take for a frozen body to thaw out enough that the limbs become flexible again?

299 solomonpanting  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:11:05pm

#293 Max DarkSide

I saw that too, yesterday. No one on the air commented on it, either. Purdy strange, huh?

300 sissyblue  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:14:31pm

#298 I think it's rigamortis.... once they've "frozen" they do not unfreeze...

301 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:17:17pm

#298 Village Idiot's Apprentice

Depends on the ambient temperature, and the mass of the body.

302 WriterMom  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:21:46pm
"Do you really think these people would risk their lives under Israeli shelling to set up a digging ceremony for dead Lebanese kids?" asked Patrick Baz, Mideast photo director for AFP.

YES ACTUALLY WE REALLY REALLY DO, you POS representing the worst filth of French 'reporting' on the Middle East.

303 Cog  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:27:01pm

I posted the Nikon D2X image authentication information above, but 90% of the pro photographers shoot Canon, usually the Mark II.

Here is DPreview.com's information about the Canon Data Verification Kit DVK-E2:

[Link: www.dpreview.com...]

Canon today announced the latest version of its Data Verification Kit, the DVK-E2 kit is designed to deliver validation of an unmodified original image from a single camera body. This kit is aimed at law enforcement, insurance, news and other such agencies and can detect single bit discrepancy in modification of an image since it was taken. The new kit is much smaller than the old and uses a unique SM (secure mobile) card which is the same size as a Secure Digital card. The card reader connects to a computer USB port (only Windows 2000/XP compatible at the moment).

Amstelveen, The Netherlands, 29 January 2004. Canon, a leader in photographic and imaging technology, today releases the DVK-E2. Designed to work with the EOS-1Ds and new EOS-1D Mark II D-SLR cameras, the DVK-E2 provides the facility to prove that images taken with the EOS-1D Mark II have not been altered, tampered with or manipulated in any way. The DVK-E2 is the successor to Canon's DVK-E1 and will work with both the EOS-1Ds and the EOS-1D Mark II.

Recent well-publicised cases involving image-tampering by news agencies have identified a strong need for a system capable of verifying the originality of digital photographs. Without such a kit it is impossible for an agency to identify whether or not a given image has been enhanced or manipulated.

ISO certification

With the capacity to detect the slightest (single bit) discrepancy, the DVK-E2 kit is expected to be popular amongst law enforcement, insurance, news and other agencies that have a need to verify the legitimacy of digital images. Canon is applying for ISO 15408 certification (evaluation criteria for IT security) for the Data Verification Kit to further validate its application. The acquisition of ISO 15408 certification will give international recognition to the originality of images shot with the EOS-1D Mark II or EOS-1Ds whilst in data verification mode.

How it works

The kit consists of a dedicated SM (secure mobile) card reader/writer and verification software. When the appropriate function (Personal Function 31) on the EOS-1D Mark II or EOS-1Ds is activated, a code based on the image contents is generated and appended to the image. When the image is viewed, the data verification software determines the code for the image and compares it with the attached code. If the image contents have been manipulated in any way, the codes will not match and the image cannot be verified as the original.

The reason you need image authentication, is that the EXIF information in each digital photo can be easily manipulated. Supposedly, with the new Nikon and Canon authentication protocols, it is not.

304 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:27:49pm

sissyblue
I know that if I take a frozen chicken out and thaw it, it gets flexible.

305 Max DarkSide  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 4:59:15pm

#299 solomonpanting

I saw that too, yesterday. No one on the air commented on it, either. Purdy strange, huh?

Wife says it was in a news clip during a break in the O'Reilly Factor, if anyone wants to dig it up for their web site.

306 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 5:04:46pm
307 rorschach  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 5:35:06pm

Media lies.

308 galloping granny  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 5:51:59pm

#302 WriterMom

YES ACTUALLY WE REALLY REALLY DO, you POS representing the worst filth of French 'reporting' on the Middle East.

WriterMom - I'm not so sure just how "French" he is. For starters he is half Lebanese. Grew up in the ME. On the next thread I posted some stuff I dug up on this guy - real name BTW Mikel Patrick Hak (sounds like Mom was French).

His involvement in lebanon wars goes back a couple of decades. Shot by the Israeli's with rubber bullet in Gaza 2000. He was the reporter standing on the balcony of the Palestine Hotel that swore up and down that the US tanks saw him. And there is a very enlightening interview translated from Arabic - in which he calls himself a warrior with a camera and says he is not professional. HMMMMMM

309 nofreelunch  Tue, Aug 1, 2006 7:02:57pm

News Agencies stand by Lebanon photos.

Why not? Gunga Dan stands by the "TANG" documents provided by the still unidentified Lucy Ramirez.

Earth Girls Liberals are easy.

310 Ledger1  Wed, Aug 2, 2006 2:25:44am

This whole photo op is a fake.

If it was not the MSM would have Green Helmet Guy in the studios doing on air interviews. I think the MSM that they have been caught in a lie. If not they would certainly answer the following questions.

The Questions to be answered about Green Helmet Guy:

What is his real name?

What is his real nationality?

What is his real occupation (other than being photographed with a dead child in his hands by MSM stringers)?

What type of radio does he carry around and why?

What type of medical training does he have – if any?

Does he pronounce a child “dead” by any medical standards?

Does he ever save a child?

How does he manage to quickly get transported to child death locations?

How does he manage to transport dead children to hospitals or morgues (does he have ambulance service – on the off hand chance a child is still alive)?

How is he alerted to said child death locations? Radio? Cell phone? TV reporters?

Does he get parental permission to brandish dead children before TV cameras?

Has he ever attended a funeral of a dead child he has pulled from the rubble?

Has he ever been injured while being close proximity to bombings?

Where can he be interviewed, telephoned or emailed regarding his well timed dead children brandishing scenes?

Let's have the answers!

311 galloping granny  Wed, Aug 2, 2006 4:58:27am

Evidence of outright deliberate bias in media reporting is starting to really pile up, with admissiions of the same by a number of well known reporters.

If Hizballah is dictating to Nic Robertson and Anderson Cooper, why on earth would the various wire services expect us to believe that their photographers are not also being orchestrated for best effect?

Media Missiles
Working for the enemy.

312 WriterMom  Wed, Aug 2, 2006 8:17:05am

#308 G.G

Yes-I know. I should have put "French"-coz he is Lebanese..

I sent a few links to Charles, too about Mr. AFP, but then my e-mail crashed...

313 Napier  Wed, Aug 2, 2006 11:31:37am

Predictably, Antonia Zerbisias is, ah, weighing in on the matter on her blog, dismissing it all as rightwing blog fantasy.

[Link: thestar.blogs.com...]


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