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Headline of the Day

Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 6:54:04 pm PDT

The always effervescent Robert Fisk provides today’s Bizarro World headline: In the face of Bush’s lies, it’s left to Assad to tell the truth.

In the sparse Baathist drawing rooms of Damascus, reality often seems a long way away.

Indeed.

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94 comments

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1 Bob's Kid  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 4:55:36pm

This has got to be a joke, right?

Right?

Oh.

2 Amalie  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 4:56:51pm

As Assad assiduously assesses the assets of Islam asshats.

3 MJBrutus  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 4:57:50pm

This just in:

Scientists have discovered that the earth is indeed flat, the moon is made of green cheese and Clinton did not have sex with that woman.

4 Cognito Primoris  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 4:58:59pm

I'm patiently waiting for reality to jump up and bite them in the ass.

5 Judith  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 4:59:13pm

This is why we give out "Fiskies".

I wonder who this year's nominee will be.

6 ointmentfly  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 4:59:17pm

I'm living on another planet...

How can these idiots get away with thinking that Hezbollah won? Should Israel have killed every last civilian to get at the little cowards hiding behind them?

As for all of the UN resolutions mandating the return of Arab land....they will get their land when they renounce terror and recognize israel as a state so Israel no longer needs a buffer zone.

7 Earth2moonbat  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 4:59:31pm

Wow.

8 Jack Reacher  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 4:59:55pm
"This is a [American] administration that adopts the principle of pre-emptive war that is absolutely contradictory to the principle of peace,"

Perhaps the most bizarre, farcical result of the MSM's rants has been their adoption by a succession of murderous dictators around the world. When the chinless opthamologist breathlessly awaits the next Maureen Dowd column, the world has slipped its moorings.

9 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:00:00pm

But Assad has an MD in ophthamology, so he obviously can see things more clearly than Bush, right?

/as if I need it

10 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:00:47pm

No wonder Kipling hated liberals.

11 Earth2moonbat  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:00:52pm

What do you say to that?

I guess: "Reza was offended".

12 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:01:02pm
13 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:01:56pm
14 DistantThunder  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:02:31pm

Assad is a "man" whose time has come.

15 new2thezoo  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:04:04pm

No wonder the English lost the war. Must be the inbreeding.

16 Balishak  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:04:31pm

I have to start with the following disclaimer: Fisk is a certified idiot.
But he's right on a few things....
The Hezzies did win, they succeeded in surviving an invasion (totally justified invasion) by a far superior military, they didn't have to give back their hostages, and they refuse to be disarmed, oh wait, the UN will disarm them....
So, while Fisk is a moron, he's right in the sense that the Hezzies did win, simply because Israel was hamstrung in it's charge to meet it's military goals. Of course, his reasoning for why they won, and his total pro-Islamofascist slant don't change my disclaimer.
What's that saying "the best lies start with a grain of truth"?

17 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:05:04pm

I haven't bothered with the article, but the URL includes "fisk"

That says it all.

18 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:05:28pm

Which brings me to The 25 Most Important Questions in the History of the Universe

Including this, which I'll be intimately familiar with in seven hours:

11. Why Do Most Snooze Buttons Only Give You Nine More Minutes of Sleep?

By the time the snooze feature was added in the 1950’s, the innards of alarm clocks had long been standardized.

This meant that the teeth on the snooze gear had to mesh with the existing gear configuration, leaving engineers with a single choice: They could set the snooze for either a little more than nine minutes, or a little more than 10 minutes.

Reports indicated that 10 minutes was too long, since it allowed people to fall back into a "deep" sleep, so clock makers chose the nine-minute gear, believing people would wake up easier and happier after a shorter snooze. We’d tend to disagree with that logic, but, then we must be in the lazy minority.

Although today’s digital clocks can be programmed to have a snooze of any length, most stick with nine minutes because that’s what consumers expect.

No, it doesn't tell us why Fisk is such a schmuck, but I can only do so much.

Night all.

19 Silhouette  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:06:27pm

#5 Judith

This is why we give out "Fiskies".

I wonder who this year's nominee will be.

The early money is on Adnan Hajj.

20 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:06:28pm

The Contestants:

Fisk, Galloway, Red Ken

The test:

Who can suck up to the enemy the most

The reward:

They kill you last

21 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:07:01pm

I'm afraid that WWIII has already begun. All of the collateral violence prior to the emergence of the Islamist menace was simply backscatter from two.

This is the real world war right now. We've reached a very early quiet interlude, but it's time to gather our allies and carefully assess our alleged friends. Because when the war erupts again, things may happen very fast, and we don't need to be nursing loose ends then.

I'm intensely unhappy about current developments, but it's not like it didn't know long ago that they weren't going to happen.

It's arrived.

22 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:07:23pm

As for the Hamzbollocks, I'm disgusted with the UN cease-fire; it is the kind of thing I'd expect from Democrats, not something I'd expect Bush and Bolton to vote for.

One more week to Ahmadjihad's surprise.

23 balishak  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:07:49pm

night Jammy, and I resent the schmuck comment, my last name is Schmuck (no joke) and that idiot is of no relation to me, we put the idiots back.

24 6patrick6  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:08:01pm

Fisk has his lips so far up Assad's spincter, he can replace Assad's tongue with his (I know, horrible mental image!). Fisk is one seditious bastard, no?

Assad's time on this planet can be measured in very small increments, IMHO. Israel will see to that. Fortunately, for the sake of the civilized world.

What a pair of worms; Fisk and Assad.

25 FrogMarch  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:08:24pm

Fisk needs to go Fisk himself.

26 6patrick6  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:11:01pm

#25 frogmarch

That would require some big enough to fisk with.

27 Beagle  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:11:13pm

Ahmadinejad according to Fisk.

Iran, as Hizbollah's principal supporter, clearly thinks so too. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who usually talks far more than he thinks, condemned the US for supplying Israel with the weapons it used on Lebanese civilians - perfectly true. But he did not say Hizbollah's missiles come from a new-generation Iranian arsenal that did not even exist during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. While the US will be keen to assess the effectiveness of its weapons - albeit largely used on civilians - no one should doubt that Iran will also be assessing the success of its new Fajr missiles - and their effect on the Israeli army.

The IDF only targets civilians. But Fisk turns the unguided Fajr, aimed at cities, into an IDF-seeking powerhouse. That's Iranian war propaganda, but not factually-based enough to persuade anything above a sweet potato.

28 ibmkeyboard  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:11:39pm

They know full well that if Hez-Ebolla breaks this ceasefire Bush will attack.
He loves to use UN resolutions, Look at Iraq, Saddam was warned many times to stop breaking the UN resolutions,
Then he was attacked.
He received UN backing for Afghanistan, and then he attacked.
Now he has UN backing for Lebanon.

I dare the Hezbollah terrorist to break the ceasefire. They know their asses will be toast.

Syria and Iran know it also...

Reminds me of a couple of little dogs barking at the master’s feet,

WE Won, WE Won.

29 Da Coyote  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:11:55pm

Words escape me here. I guess we'll just have to wait for the suffering that is to come. When it does come, I know just the folks that I'll be looking for.

30 Cartman  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:12:11pm

#23 balishak

my last name is Schmuck (no joke)

You must be one tough cookie. That had to have been a bitch to deal with in grade school. ;)

31 bonz  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:12:41pm

Radical Islam's court jester tells jokes to please his master

32 Amalie  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:13:13pm

#13 ploome hineni 8/15/2006 07:01PM PDT

Amalie, the news lately, has me so upset, I can;t even find the interest to go shopping

what to do?

Sweetheart, you must force, FORCE yourself to go shopping. It will be hard at first but it will get easier with each new purchase..

{Ploome}

33 Khoffee_Onan  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:13:37pm

Let's return to Robert Fisk the Fiskie that is rightfully his.

I call that to fulfill the right of return...

34 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:14:25pm
35 balishak  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:14:39pm

You have no idea, I came up with the perfect defense for people who tried to get under my skin.
I carry a $5 bill with me everywhere. When someone tries to be funny with my name, I pull out the fiver, and dare them to come up with something I haven't heard yet. I have had that same $5 for six years now.
Anyways, heading to bed, gnight and god bless.

36 Amalie  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:14:50pm

30 Cartman 8/15/2006 07:12PM PDT

#

23 balishak

my last name is Schmuck (no joke)
You must be one tough cookie. That had to have been a bitch to deal with in grade school. ;)

Yeah...

37 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:15:02pm
38 Amalie  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:15:42pm

34 ploome

Yes, shoes.. high heels, platforms, strappy sandals..

39 Amalie  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:16:40pm

Ploome

I was trimming some lavender today and thought of you.

40 ToxMan  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:18:47pm

So, they won a propaganda "war"

The reality is this was only a battle in the real war.

When nations get fed up with Islamofascism driving oil prices thru the sky and grinding economies to a halt, the extortion will end.

41 ArcherB  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:19:14pm
Syria and Iran, according to Mr Bush, were responsible for the "suffering" of Lebanon - which contains the seeds of truth since Hizbollah provoked this war by capturing two Israeli soldiers and killing three others on 12 July - although it wasn't the Syrian or Iranian air force that was slaughtering the convoys of innocent refugee civilians in Lebanon. So it was that President Assad must have enjoyed his little peroration in Damascus yesterday.

I hate to take this thing full circle but...
It wasn't the Israeli air force that started this whole damn thing by kidnapping two soldiers!
So if the Iranian and Syrian supported Hezbo's had not kidnapped the soldiers to begin with, Israel would have not needed to respond, causing the civilians to be on the road in the first friggin place!

What's so hard to understand? The Hezbo's started it. The Hezbo's could have ended it at any time. The Hezbo's chose to continue it, regardless of how many civilians it killed. And for what?
The lack of logic these people employ astounds me. I'm surprised these people can function in day-to-day life.

42 ibmkeyboard  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:20:05pm

Good night, and Good luck.

lo

43 Thanos  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:21:57pm

One chinless, pencil-necked geek salutes another?

44 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:23:23pm
45 Amalie  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:28:07pm

Ploome

I love lavender too. Cool when you water it the aroma comes off the leaves..

I have some lemon soap from Italy that I adore.

46 pragmatist  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:29:15pm

This is my favorite line from the article:
(but I had to read the whole thing to get
there :-{)

"no one should doubt that Iran will also
be assessing the success of its new Fajr
missiles - and their effect on the Israeli
army."

I imagine this conversational assessment ...

Q-Didn't our glorious Fajr missles destroy
the entire Israeli Army?
A-Yes, pbuh! Even more amazingly because
not a single military asset was targeted!
And I have a front row seat for the
Hezbollah Victory Parade in Arafatgrad ...
you know ... it was called Tel Aviv before
our "Glorious Victory"! And Mr. Fisk
is going to be the Grand Marshall!

47 mich-again  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:29:49pm

Anyone who attempts to dissect and analyze the causes and effects of this war and conveniently fails to mention the disgraceful use of civilian human shields by the Islamic Fascists and the parading of the dead bodies it produced is a fool and a tool.

Fisk is a scumbag. His moral equivalency is vile. GDit, the Monday Morning Quarterbacking by America Hating mediots and Academia Nuts is out of control.

48 groinpullerredux  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:32:51pm

i think i might just try this 'fisking' everyone is talking about...

the IAF 'slaughtering conveys of innocent Lebanese civilians'?
.....this is demonstrably false....no further comment necessary.

the 'great and the good of Damascus'?
....i doubt very much that anyone truly known for their good works and virtue in Syrian society would be caught in the same room with the chinless eye-doctor.

49 BignJames  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:39:49pm

Did someone promise to beat him for writing this stuff?

I've heard some people enjoy being beaten.


just sayin'...

50 Mark1957  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:42:43pm

One look at Robert Fisk's career, such as it's been, tells me if he'd been around in, oh say, 1943, he would have eagerly volunteered for this job:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

or, perhaps, if Fisk was really well-connected, he might have knocked on this guy's door in hopes of securing an entry-level position:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Accordingly, Robert Fisk gets my "Lincoln Steffens 'I have been over into the future, and it works' Award" this month. Indeed, at the rate he's feverishly banging out his screed, he'll likely get my award every month from here on out.

51 sammysdad  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:44:29pm

Amalie:

I was "weedeating" some poison ivy today and I thought of you..

:o)

52 Ackomanyuki  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:47:13pm

First time I read Fiskie. Gee Gawd, he really is an ass.

53 FinallyHere  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:56:41pm

But Hizb'Allah did win. Now it is the only force in Lebanon. It was only Iran who provided to Hizb'Allah before the defeated Israel, now it is everybody.

Sheppard Smith, whether you like him or not, explained that all supplies are coming to warehouses and it is Hizb'Allah who distributes them.

They are coming back to the South in the cars with their flags and arms and Israeli soldiers are leaving without doing anything about it.

Lebanon government already declared that they would not even tried to disarm Hizb'Allah.
Nobody except three Muslim countries agree now to send any troops, not that France would be better. Kofi declared that new UN troops would come in several months, which means never. IDF is leaving Lebanon trying to pretend that the do not see what is going on.

And Olmert is still in power and declares a victory. Who are we trying to fool?

Elections have its concequences. Arabs in Israel elected Hamas, Jews elected Olmert.

As it goes, Jews made a worse choice.
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

54 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 5:59:42pm

FinallyHere

Fuck you. Welcome to hell.

55 massachusetts republican  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:06:34pm

Daddy what is that pit? Shush, just move along, we will be late for of dear Presidents speach.

A syrian to his son.
The Hama massacre occurred when the government of Syria attacked the town of Hama and killed thousands of people on February 2, 1982. Amnesty International claims that 10,000-25,000 were killed at Hama, though many figures exist and the number could be considerably smaller or larger than this. The Syrian government had made no official claim about the number killed at Hama.

Like father like son.

56 FinallyHere  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:07:37pm

to 54

I hope you feel better now, but I am not Sharon or Olmert who brought it on Israel. I even did not vote for them.

And yes I am in hell as we all after what Olmert did to my beloved country and to the West as a whole.

57 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:08:30pm

Another left wing liberal progressive or whatever they are this week, who loves a fascist dictator.

Big suprise.

58 chewydog  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:10:34pm

#38 Amalie

Yes, shoes.. high heels, platforms, strappy sandals..

I vote for strappy high heel sandals..

59 chewydog  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:14:26pm

#54 rgbdj

Fuck you. Welcome to hell.

Nice discussion technique

60 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:27:36pm

I tend to be blunt at times. Those who annoint winnners to those who have suffered severe losses tend to get that treatment, Israeli or whatever.

Now we have a boogieman, Olmert, who did nothing more than defend his country when an act of war was extended upon Israel.

Was he an incompetent leader? That's for others to judge. But saying that Hezbullah won when their neighborhoods in southern Lebanon and south Beirut are in shambles; when chin-free of Syria and A'hm a Mad Dog of Iran crow about the impending annihilation of Israel as if they actually believe their toothless words...

When someone whose country has just suffered significant casualties in a war for cause against an enemy who was significantly diminished says that the war was lost, and when mounting anger and fury among those of proper democratic nations around the world is peaking in intensity...

When that person declares that the enemy has won, then that person has already surrendered to the aims of their adversary, has given up and said, "put me in chains"...

Then I will deal with it as harshly as I feel I should. I don't give a damn if some Israeli feels really sorry for himself or herself right now. We really don't have time for pity-fests. This is the grand opera, and it's going to be us, or it's going to be them.

Uselessness is not a virture.

61 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:30:06pm

#53 FinallyHere

Yeah, all those dead terrorists mean nothing. The fact that Israel can operate that far into Lebanon? Doesn't mean squat.

Hizzballah burning up their pathetic "guided by allah" rockets? Nada.

Go get a shovel so we can bury you.

62 gymnast  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:33:00pm

#53, Finally Here. You seem to be here with a glass half empty that is fast draining to empty. The dark cloud that you have sought shelter under is fixing to dump on you, you umbrella is full of holes, and you are wearing a hole in your shoe while you run in circles of dispair. What do you have to "put on the table"?

63 jimmy the infidel  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:37:05pm

Ugh. After reading the rest of this steaming pile of an article I have this undeniable urge to scrub my brain with a brillo pad

64 FinallyHere  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:42:54pm

to #60

I do not know what Olmert's real goal was when he responded to Hizb'Allah attack.
He claimed it was to uncondionally release kidnapped soldiers (has not happened), to destroy Hizb'Allah (has not happen), to remove Jews from Judea and Samaria (has not happen yet, but he managed to destroy at least one Jewish home on July 10).

The only goal that is still within his reach is the third one.

The Russia was in worse shape than Germany after WW2, but Germany still lost a war.

The way to win a next war that will come pretty soon is not to declare a victory instead of admitting defeat, but prepare better for the next round. If Olmert stays and claims the victory and people believe him, then next time it can be the last Israel war.

As Caroline Glick puts it:

here will be time to inquire into what has gone wrong in the IDF. There will be time to fire the generals that need to be fired. But we don't need a commission to determine what we need to do. Because of the Olmert government's failures, ever greater battles await us. As the dangers mount by the hour, we must replace this misbegotten government with one that can defend us.

65 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:45:22pm

I believe it was Fiskie that first made GHG famous, by being the first broadstream outlet to innocent and unsuspecting individuals, who got to see the aftereffect of a missile strike in the form of a mutilated infant with its head blown to smithereens, in enhanced red color, on his website.

GHB was a terrorist even back that far, and I think it was over ten years ago. How many times did GHG parade the grisly headless infant for eager cameras of the "usual suspects" of the media?

Who knows. Islamic terrorism is evil, and he is part of the whole package.

But I must amend this disclaimer to this post, because I do not want to upset the peaceful Muslims.

All of the Muslim authorities that I've ever seen on television have said, regarding alleged Islamist terror incidents, that "those who kill innocents are not people of Islam".

One of these days, someone might want to define what the Muslim definition of "innocents" is.

66 FinallyHere  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:54:16pm

To Sarah D.

Yes, all these dead terrorist mean nothing to me, Arabs have unlimited supply of terrorists. But it is nice that you care about dead terrorists.

It is dead IDF soldiers that mean everything to me.

Hizb'allah has enough rockets left, they used 250 on the last day, and they will get more for free. Israel will have to pay to replace all arms and tanks they lost. That means more to me.

The whole word compete trying to restore Lebanon, it is even mentioned in UN resolution, but only private funds go into Israel whick lost estimated 2 billions.

Yes, it is easy to bury me, and even you, Sarah D., but unfortunately they did not bury Nasrallah.

Olmert/Peretz promise to leave Lebanon in a weak or two. IDF does not prevent Hazb'allah returning to South Lebanon. How useful is it that IDF is still there?

67 NoSubmission  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 6:56:55pm

What will become of Syria once the Iranian government is overthrown?

68 odhran  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 7:03:14pm

Despicable

69 shuck  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 7:07:37pm

wow. period.

70 NYexpat  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 7:13:46pm

Damn you Charles! after reading that link I have to go take a shower!

71 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 7:17:27pm

#66 FinallyHere

Let's see -

Yes, all these dead terrorist mean nothing to me, Arabs have unlimited supply of terrorists. But it is nice that you care about dead terrorists.

So what number of terrorists would make you happy FH? Or, since you say that there are an unlimited amount of them, how many arabs should be kill?

The whole word compete trying to restore Lebanon, it is even mentioned in UN resolution, but only private funds go into Israel whick lost estimated 2 billions.

Yes, Lebanon will likely be rebuilt, that is the way of things. Are you saying that only private funds go to Israel now?

but unfortunately they did not bury Nasrallah.

Who runs his cowardly yap from outside the war zone. Who gives a shit what Nasarallah says or thinks? The real meat behind this (as you know) is Iran.

Olmert/Peretz promise to leave Lebanon in a weak or two. IDF does not prevent Hazb'allah returning to South Lebanon. How useful is it that IDF is still there?

Yeah, and the US talked about a ceasefire weeks ago too. Didn't happen back then did it?

Hizzballah got their asses stomped and good. Proof? The ever ready arab use of the words "We have won! We need a ceasefire!"

I'm glad you aren't the majority, the IDF could use some support right about now, not someone who belittles their efforts ('cause what the hell, there are unlimited numbers of bad guys).

72 FinallyHere  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 7:35:47pm

Sarah D.

Thank you, you convinsed me. Olmert won this war. Israel has nothing to worry about from the defeated hizb'allah. I feel much better now.

Olmert can now use IDF to cleanse, sorry, to evacuate Jews from Judea and Samaria. As he said in the middle of this "operation" ( do not forget it was not a war, but operation) during broadcasted interview to AP, it will give momentum to his "convergense" plan for Judea and Samaria.
After that Israel will be even more safe, than it is now.

73 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 7:41:27pm
Olmert can now use IDF to cleanse, sorry, to evacuate Jews from Judea and Samaria.

Ah yes, the real issue bothering you finally gets mentioned.

It wouldn't matter if Olmert killed every last Hizzballah terrorist. You hate him because he's following Sharon's disengagement plan.

74 Aegius  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 7:42:27pm

So Robert Fisk found another fascist leader to kiss on the rear end. He kissed OBL on the rear end, Arafat on the rear end and Saddam Hussein on the rear end. Has he kissed Kim Jong-Il's rear end yet? Does anyone know?

75 FinallyHere  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 8:00:44pm

Sarah D.

The real issue is that everything Olmert does cause Jews to die in vain while his sons are safe and sound in NY and Paris.

And no, if he got release of kidnapped soldiers and disarm Hizb'allah, as he declared when he started this "operation", I would praise him.

[Link: web.israelinsider.com...]

And yes, I am against ethnic cleansing even if it is done by Sharon. Removing people from their homes based on ethnicity is ethnic cleansing regardless of the goals and results. In this case it caused Katyushas on Ashkelon.

76 FinallyHere  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 8:10:37pm
In Israel, Mr. Olmert faces his own struggles. A new Globes-Smith poll showed his Kadima party would have little chance of winning re-election now, and a Yediot Aharonot poll showed 58 per cent believe Israel has achieved none or few of its goals in the conflict.

Friends of the soldiers still held captive in Lebanon protested in Tel Aviv last night, frustrated that the release of Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev was not made a ceasefire condition.

[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

77 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 8:13:47pm

#75 FinallyHere

Sharon put his ass on the line repeatedly didn't he?

The real issue is that everything Olmert does cause Jews to die in vain while his sons are safe and sound in NY and Paris.

Really? So what exactly would you (and BTW where is your butt during this conflict?) have him do? Not fight? Fight harder? Fight smarter? What?

Removing people from their homes based on ethnicity is ethnic cleansing regardless of the goals and results.

Yeah, no military reasons there at all. Absolutely none. Tell you what FH, even I as an average American citizen can find maps showing how the disengagement worked, how the attacks from the palis became less lethal, how the wall stopped terrorists. But, you seem to have insight into something that isn't seen. Please, if you have links to maps showing that this isn't true, I'd love to see them.

78 Trey Stone  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 8:17:41pm

the Golan Heights is one issue tied to _Syrian_ support of Hezbollah, but for him to act like the occupation provoked this war is idiotic. Hezbollah is much more under the sway of Iran than Syria in any case.

and it's really obnoxious to hear the Left talk about our "failure" in Afghanistan. cuz, you know, warlords. and opium. at least the Taliban provided STABILITY! Karzai is part of a CIA-neocon plot to suck the natural gas out of Central Asia

79 Mike_W  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 8:52:16pm

I agree with FinallyHere that Israel must never, ever, ever give up land to the Arabs.
Muslims see any concession as weakness.
They see any withdrawal as weakness.

It is incomprehensible to them that anyone would withdraw while in a position of strength.
If they were in a position to dominate, they would put their boots on the victim's throat.
They constantly project their own motives onto others. They understand only their own thoughts and feelings.
The only time they would withdraw is when in an inferior position.

Concession of territory is like the scent of blood to a wolf...it licks its lips.

Islam commands that Muslims fight the infidel until all the world belongs to Allah.
This is not about reconciliation or a "Palestinian" state or any such feelgood rubbish.
It is about the elimination of Israel and genocide of the Jews.

Bukhari:V4B52N176 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘You Muslims will fight the Jews till some of them hide behind stones. The stones will betray them saying, “O Abdullah (slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.”’”

Qur’an:8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”

80 FinallyHere  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 8:55:22pm

Sarah,

What "disengagement" are you talking about?
IDF is in Gaza. Arabs kidnapped one soldier and killed the other two. There are more rockets on Israel from Gaza than before. Israel still provides Arabs in Gaza with water and power, etc. UN still considers Gaza occupied.
Everytime when Israel kills a terrorist hiding among "innocent civilian" Hamas voters the whole world screams. Arabs are allowed to Israel for work.
[Link: www.israelnn.com...]

Do you read Israeli papers? There are much less "average Israeli citizens" who would support retreat from Gaza now. At least they learn.

I do not care about Sharon's ass. His ass, put on the line or not, did not make him a good PM. More Jews died during his term in office, than during any other period if Israel history except the 48 war. I hope that Olmert will not beat his record, but he is up to good start.

And yes, look at the map and imagine how retreat from Judea and Samaria will help security. Take altitudes into account too.

81 Sarah D.  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 9:01:51pm

FinallyHere,

Nice link.....to a two paragragh news article. Can't you find anything to bolster your argument?

82 Trey Stone  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 10:35:58pm

"that Israel must never, ever, ever give up land to the Arabs."

this is nonsense. Israel withdrew from the Sinai in the '70s and reached peace with Egypt. there was no land bargain with Jordan, but it has evolved from being hostile to Israel to being at peace as well. there is no reason to think that they couldn't make a similar agreement with Syria, although currently they aren't really in any position to negotiate.

it differs with Islamist governments who are ideologically devoted to the complete destruction of Israel, but the only M.E. state currently advocating that is Iran. the Arab world on the whole is governed by secularists, with the exception of Saudi Arabia, but even there Abdullah is inclined toward a pro-Western position -- probably moreso than other members in the royal family.

so Israel is perfectly capable of cutting deals with pretty much any state in the region, with the exception of Iran. as for the Palestinians, though, that's a different story.

83 Mike_W  Tue, Aug 15, 2006 11:30:03pm

#82 Trey Stone

Israel withdrew from the Sinai in the '70s and reached peace with Egypt.

The peace between Israel and Egypt has more to do with Israel's military strength than being handed back the Sinai Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty and the "Camp David Accords" after Egypts decisive defeat in the 1967 Six-Day War.
And to quote Hugh Fiitzgeralld :
"But Egypt did break the Camp David Accords. It failed completely to live up to its non-tangible, but nonetheless important commitments to end hostile propaganda and acts toward Israel. It has continued, and increased, such hostile propaganda, to the point where Egypt, its press, and radio, and television, is a world center of antisemitism as well as of anti-Americanism."
[Link: jihadwatch.org...]

there was no land bargain with Jordan, but it has evolved from being hostile to Israel to being at peace as well

In a March 31, 1977 interview with the Amsterdam-based newspaper Dagblad de Verdieping Trouw, PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhse’in said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.’

[Link: www.melaniephillips.com...]

In another of Hugh Fitzgerald's articles:
[Link: jihadwatch.org...]


Like an oasis in the desolation of Islam, Israel irks Islam enormously, "secular" Arab governments or not.

84 Emery Calame  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 12:33:55am

Wow. That opinion piece was so goddman bonzo that Charles needs to make a new award to reflect the enormous heights of moonbattery to which this leftoid has not only aspired but won.

Fisk has mutated into a Hyper-Fisk and eclipsed all the Fiskie winners. He is off the scale. His reason and sense of self has collapsed in a sublime moment of political collectivist post-realism moksha. He has become one with all things. He is the Serpent Orobourous swallowling his tail. He has spoken Trooth(TM) to Powa' and tinkled in the font of wisdom. He has won the Nobel Prize for Like Totally Blowing Our $#@%-ing Minds Dude! Woah!

Truly he has reached the ultimate form: he is a macro-giga-idiotarian majoris con queso aqui por favor.

Wowzers. Oh my God...It's full of stars.

85 rastajenk  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 12:35:37am

I wonder if Fisk has found a good source of toilet paper in Damascus yet. That was his overriding concern in Baghdad.

86 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 2:13:51am

I fisked his article about the cease fire:

Fact and Fisk- 10 falsehoods in his latest story:

1. Fisk: the Israeli army, reeling under the Hizbollah's onslaught of the past 24 hours-

Fact: The Israeli Army is just fine thank you, Israeli political leaders may be reeling but the army was given a mission and accomplished it.

2. Fisk: [Israel] “is now facing the harshest guerrilla war in its history. And it is a war they may well lose”

Fact: You don’t want to know how many Hezbollah fighters Israel killed. Every major unit that engaged Israel was destroyed. If Hezbollah wants to start up again, Israel will respond and win again.

3. Fisk: “at least 39 - possibly 43 - Israeli soldiers have been killed in the past day as Hizbollah guerrillas”

Fact: It was 12. Every funeral is Israel is enumerated tragedy. Fisk’s body count rely on his sources and they are as accurate as he is.

4. Fisk: [Hezbollah is] “still launching missiles into Israel itself”

Fact: Hezbollah hit one, exactly one, military target in the whole war with their rockets. Fisk is too ignorant and belligerently one sided to see Hezbollah’s tactics as the war crime they are and that they are either so inept in their targeting they can’t hit what they were aiming at or that they did hit what they were aiming at: cities and civilians, just like Hitler.

5. Fisk : “have fought back against Israel's massive land invasion into Lebanon

Fact: ...and been bested, Hezbollah and Iran asked for the cease fire, not Israel.

6. Fisk: “Israeli F-16 aircraft that have laid waste to much of Lebanon”

Fact: the overwhelming majority of Lebanon has been unharmed by this war.

7. Fisk: From this morning, Hizbollah's operations will be directed solely against the invasion force.

Fact: in open contravention of the cease fire agreement; Fisk has no problem with that.

8. Fisk: Thousands of Hezbollah guerrillas are still in the south

Fact: If they are there, the IDF would never have been able to reach the Litani river, which it did.

9. Fisk: Hezbollah shot down an IDF helicopter and this is “unprecedented.”

Fact: Israel lost a few planes to ground fire in the 1982 Lebanon War. Actually, Israel has done better in terms of aircraft in this one, it lost two helicopters.

10. Fisk: The Israeli army appears as impotent to protect its country as the Hizbollah clearly is to protect Lebanon

Fact: Israel mostly controls the area south of the Litani and if Hezbollah starts up again, their presence in the area will be liquidated.

87 FinallyHere  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 2:26:18am

Sarah,


this kind of news happen every day. if Kassams and katyushas from Gaza every day and abducted and killed soldiers and IDF being in Gaza do not make "my case", then you are helpless.

88 canadianconservative  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 2:30:33am

#21 grumpy dog Johnson....

I agree that WWIII is underway, and will be upon us in a big way, And i hink that we are ill prepared for what's coming.

The Islamofascists can be dealt with, trouble is, they are not the only enemy we face.

We need to build the right alliances. With he exceotion of the UK, write off the rest of western Europe. They would prefer to watch the Moslems wipe out Israel and finish what Hitler started, before the Americans send the Mozzies to the history books.

We need to keep our eastern european allies in the picture. And Russia needs to be considered too.... why? The one name I don't hear constantly coming up in these discussions, sitting there like the elephant nobody wants to acknowledge, is the People's Republic of China.
You mark my words. China will take advantage of the confusion and do what Japan attempetd to do in WWII: They will take over all of east Asia,and will probably move on Africa as well. they have the manpower, and are not the least bit squeamish about using it, in fact, it would be a good way to correct the gender imbalance created by their one-hild policy.
How to counter China? help Japan re-arm ASAP, lest their industrial base fall into Chinese hands. Australia and NZ shuld be very concerned about this.
Russia must be thrown a bone, and I suggest that Iran be that bone. Let the Russkies go in and take out Ahmedinejad, and reap the spoils.Let them deal with the crazy moslem fanatics they conquer.
The rissians surely know that China is the common foe. Chinese thinking is that they will reclaim every scrap of territory they have lost , and that includes most of Siberia. If the Russians finish off Iran, take their oil, then they can contain the Chinese on the North. In exchange for Iran, the Russkies need to agree to leave Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine alone. They can do whatever they want as far as the "stans" of teh Old Soviet Union is concerned. Belorus is effectively a Russian puppet state already.And there will always need to be a buffer between Russia and Poland (which I see as the future moral military and even economic leader of Europe)
India needs to be taken into account. Let them have Pakistan. They'd like nothing better than a free hand to neutarlize an enemy that is just waiting for an opportunity to do THEM in for the sake of their idol Allah.
This policy will contain China from the west, east and North. that leaves the South: Arm the Philippines to the teeth, and have them co-ordinate with Taiwan. That will aso help keep Indonesia at bay.(the world's mot populous Moslem country.
I also strongly reccomend bringing South Africa, and other Christian afroican countries into the fold as well. It will keep China humble (Chinese business{read People's Liberation Army} is expanding its tentacles into Africa while we sleep.)
If you have China encircled,you can restore a balance to the world once teh raical islamofascists have been stamped out once and for all.
A nice by-product of this would be the isolation of Chavez. without his Moslem allies, he's a gnat.
If we fail to take Russia and China into account, we will live to regret it, and the "live" part may not be too long.
Keeping Russia and China out of the Arabian peninsula will also be the best, and possibly only way to protect Israel.

89 RC neo-Jew  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 2:32:58am

Just to remind you of one of Fisk's earlier adventures - Fisk being more than imaginative in Iraq.

Scroll down to Didn't Jayson Blair end up unemployed for such as this?

As British hacks return from Baghdad, they have been belatedly catching up on what their rivals wrote during the war. They are surveying the dispatches of the Independent's Robert Fisk with particular interest -- and some amazement. On 2 April, three busloads of foreign hacks were taken by Saddam's spin-doctors to the town of Hillah to interview wounded Iraqis in the hospital. All of them -- including Fisk -- duly filed pieces on what they had witnessed. But the Indie's living legend sent a second report that day, datelined "from Robert Fisk in Musayyib, Central Iraq." Very vivid it was too. "Cafes and restaurants were open, shops were selling takeaway meatballs and potatoes," he wrote. "This was not a population on the edge of starvation; nor indeed did the people appear to be frightened. If the Americans are about to launch an assault through this farmland of canals and forests of palm trees and wheat fields, it looked at first glance yesterday like a country at peace." How had all the other hacks missed this? They were under the distinct impression that they had been ferried straight from Baghdad along the motorway to Hillah and then straight back again. They remembered no detours, no stops en route and no visits to Musayyib; they thought they had been allowed to leave the buses only for their chaperoned tour of the casualty ward. How had Fisk managed to visit Musayyib? And how come the picture he gave in the Indie did not quite tally with the fact that by the time he wrote his report the Americans had taken control of the main bridge at Musayyib, and hundreds of US military vehicles were already crossing the Euphrates?

90 LC LaWedgie  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 2:54:07am

Letter download from Daily Star:

Dear [insert name of the deputy, congress man or government official who represents you],
I am writing you in relation to the events in Lebanon. Today and luckily for humanity the world is increasingly connected and forming a global village. So, despite biased media reports for the benefit of Israel, we as citizens of the world have a clear idea of what is happening in that part of the world and [insert name of the country you come from].
Israel is destroying Lebanon and any economic viability that it has been struggling to build over the past 16 years. Before that it was unleashing its terror and destruction on the people of Gaza. They are killing children, women and innocent civilians. Israel has been displacing families from their homes in villages ever since its establishment in 1948. In six days since July 12, 2006, it displaced over 1,000,000 people in Lebanon alone. It also pounded to the ground Lebanese people's homes and infrastructure: roads, bridges, airports, ports, highways, energy plants and communication networks. These are all structures that we may have paid for with our tax money through international aid projects as we know that Lebanon's post-war reconstruction was partly possible because of foreign aid to the then war-torn country. Israel has torn it away again, an entire country. It has no right to do so. Israel is carrying out the same, if not worse, collective punishment that some of its people suffered during the first half of the 20th century.
We are constantly being told that we should appreciate the fact that we live in democracies, in the free world, where freedom of speech and expression are not an issue. We are also being told that our governments are waging a war against terror to protect us. But today we wonder whether such violent actions carried out by states, which use unrestrained and disproportionate force, clearly breaching international law and justice, are not but exasperating the problem by creating more angry people who are willing to bomb themselves in train stations and skyscrapers in an attempt to turn attention to the injustice they are enduring.
Based on our concern for our own security and based on the fact that we live in democracies where an individual's freedom of expression holds the power to change and improve, we write to you today requesting the following:
Mobilize all diplomatic efforts to:
1. Stop the Israeli attacks on Lebanon and Gaza
2. Pressure the United Nations Security Council to meet immediately and issue a Chapter 7 Resolution condemning the Israeli attacks and imposing sanctions on the Jewish state in an attempt to prevent it from repeating these attacks in the future. The international community's failure to treat Israel like any other belligerent state has led to its recurrent resorting to violence. Ten years ago, it committed the Qana Massacre in South Lebanon at a UN base. As it remained unpunished for its unlawful acts in Qana, Jenin, Sabra and Shatila etc. Israel allowed itself to commit the mass genocide in Gaza and Lebanon in 2006 using the same argument and justification "self-defense," "fighting against terror" etc. But killing children and innocent is far from self-defense and fighting against terror unless it is the intention. Israel should face the same treatment as Saddam did when he invaded Kuwait and if it does not, we as citizens of [insert name of the country you come from] need to understand clearly why. Our country pays membership fees to be part of the UN, I presume it is our tax money. We expect and we have the right to request that this money is used effectively. No nation should enjoy the privilege over others to kill and the UN should be able to implement its charter the first article of which is "to Maintain Peace and Security."
3. Pressure Israel through the UN or any other effective means to pay compensation for all the destruction it has caused at least since July 12, 2006.

91 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 4:05:14am
#2 Amalie

As Assad assiduously assesses the assets of Islam asshats.

Love your alliteration!

92 jwbaumann  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 5:23:06am

#6 ointmentfly

Should Israel have killed every last civilian to get at the little cowards hiding behind them?

Sadly - - tragically - - the answer to this question might be yes.

93 Trey Stone  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 3:06:40pm

#83

i'm sure Israel's military strength and Egypt's inability to beat them played a role. however, the 1973 psychological victory for Egypt (where the U.S. convinced Israel to cede back some territory, even though the Arabs didn't win in the end, though they seem to think they did) and the 1979 agreement undoubtedly were key factors. i'm sure if Israel still held the Sinai Peninsula, no such agreement would exist.

as for the PLO -- ok, but i wasn't talking about them, i was talking about the Jordanian government. and as of today i have seen no signs of Abdullah being sympathetic to the kind of pan-Arab nationalism espoused by the PLO leader you cited.

94 insomniac  Wed, Aug 16, 2006 11:31:42pm

In his address to the American people, Osama bin Laden had this to say about Robert Fisk:

english.aljazeera.net...] target="_blank">

[Robert Fisk] is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral.

Says a lot about the fuckwit doesn't it?


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