Am I first?

Wow, just can't get their head s wrapped upon what's wrong with this picture huh?

Saved for posterity, before BBC can rewrite.

That they would endanger a child's life to make a point is beyond belief. They have crossed the line and are terrorists themselves.

The bomb came through the roof of the single-storey house and half-embedded itself into the floor, just missing the TV.

Well hey, at least it missed the TV. I mean, we still have our priorities, you know.

Wow, purposely placing a child next to an unexploded bomb. There really are no words!

Awsome first comment ever on LGF after having the account for months and I get in first.

while we get our cameras out and record the scene for posterity.

I guess I can understand that. I know if I came home and there was a thousand pounder in my living room I would want a picture. Then agian I don't think that would ever happen to me. I don't have any hezbollah living anywhere near me.

Endangering the child, against his will, so as to get a "money shot."

Monsters.

Rather than simply say that the shell is about 4 1/2 long and 12 inches wide they grab the nearest child and send him over to stand beside it!

Sickening.

The shell is huge, bigger than the young boy pushed forward to stand reluctantly next to it while we get our cameras out and record the scene for

BBC....Just joined the ranks of Islam in having no respect for the life of Children.....sick.

Hey, what's the life of a child compared to an opportunity to make Israel look bad?

/:>) Do I really need one?

Boycott the BBC.

By Martin Asser
BBC News, Bint Jbeil

I think we should all e-mail Mr. AsserAsshole and tell him what we think of his "reporting".

THE MEDIA IS THE ENEMY!

..and they would say, if the boy died, that he was a "martyr".

In some of the pictures I have seen they purport to show unexploded artillery shells laying about. What gets my attention is that a lot of the pictures show the artillery round sitting in a depression in the road or sidewalk with the end that would impact the ground thereby causing the round to explode pointing up, you know just like you would do if you were say planting an IED in a road to blow up say an advancing tank or vehicle. Once again I look at these pictures with a very jaundiced eye. Some of these unexploded ordance is actually IED's planted by Hezbollah that have yet to be recovered or are incapable of being recovered. Watch out for who gets blamed if they go off.

Reminds me of the man who photographed the child being stalked by a vulture.

Can’t recall if he saved the child or not – anyone remember?

#5 GotFrags?

So they can still catch BBC News. Or Al-Jizz.

/what's the difference?

#9 Ringo the Gringo

Maybe they were hoping it would go off, thereby giving them another "atrocity" to use against Israel.

Charles: You gonna put this staging into your fauxtography banner list on your home page?

I'm surprised they didn't give the kid a hammer, and tell him to give it a good whack.

I don't think my first thought at finding a unexploded bomb in my house would be to shove the first child I could find next to the thing to take a snap shot. I also think what we are seeing here is just the tip of the iceberg. This is mentioned in the article with such casual nonchalance, that this type of photo staging has to be an everyday occurance with these newspeople.

She said:

"I'm waiting for the resistance [Hezbollah] to take it away," Um Ali tells me. "But I have many other problems - there is no money, no work, my husband passed away two years ago."

The Hezbollah will give her $12,000 for the roof, give her work as prop on the pictures for AP and will bring her dead husband back after the Aug 22 resurrection date.

BBC PAGE FOR COMPLAINTS

Hmmm..how shall I put it:

Dear Stinky Jew-Hating, Terror Adorers and Pathetic Excuses for "journalists"....

#16 Ward Cleaver

Yes, I suppose, but then there's the other small matter of electricity.

Everytime I see a picture of Hezbollah handing out good 'ol American greenbacks to these folks I fly into a blue rage. If we are so damn evil give us back our money. Nobody seems to call them on it.

It's 2200 in Tehran & Qom and the world still marches along.

The shell is huge, bigger than the young boy pushed forward to stand reluctantly next to it while we get our cameras out and record the scene for posterity. our prosperity.

/Fixed that for ya'

Reminds me of the cover of this week's National Review.

The shell is huge, bigger than the young boy pushed forward to stand reluctantly next to it while we get our cameras out and record the scene lie for posterity.

Fixed that for ya', BBC.

OT:

Misreading the Lebanon war

It makes interesting points in comparison to previous wars and others fought before it.

It also shows how effective hizb'allah and the media have been at over-iflating IDF strength and making themselves seem puny.

But I have to disagree with the writer in certain points, because well the media does play another important part and is just another battlefield, but maybe one of the more important ones.

#21 Jack

Yes-I'm so concerned about the MASSIVE BOMB IN MY LIVING ROOM that I can offer you a cup of nice tea, with mint and chat to you about the GLORIOUS WARRIORS OF ALLAH and shove my little boy right up close and personal...BUT WHERE WAS I? Oh yes-MANY MANY PROBLEMS...

Honest Reporting's Backspin Blog posted the official BBC reply to those that complained about Oral Gonorrhea's recent, atrocious bit of Hizbish agitprop.

People who wrote the BBC complaining about Orla Guerin's coverage from Bint Jbeil received the following reply:

Thank you for your e-mail.

I appreciate that you felt a recent BBC News report from Orla Guerin was biased against Israel.

I should state that Orla Guerin's report on the 14th August from Bint Jbeil in Southern Lebanon made clear at the start that she was reporting on the perspective of Lebanese people returning home in their thousands.

She reported: "I haven't seen a single building that isn't damaged in some way. Many have been flattened. Many have been singed. This town has really been wiped out."

Orla did not say that every building had been wiped out. She was using an impressionistic phrase implying extreme damage which is justified by the scale of what she saw.

Nevertheless, I do acknowledge your concerns and will ensure that your comments on all matters are fully registered and made available to news editors and indeed senior management within the BBC. Feedback of this nature helps us when making decisions about future BBC programmes and services and your views will most certainly play a part in this process.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us.

No problem! If the bomb goes off and kills the kid, they can add the kid to the number killed by Israel. Good propaganda. Gives the Mooskies sonething to seeth about.

What a piece of crap that article was.

Once again. Not really news, but "feelings journalism". You are told what emotions you should be having.

OT
isn't it August 22nd in Iran already? Any news?

Yes, but what the World doesn't understand is that they have to play along with terrorists. I mean, if they didn't act as a propaganda outlet rather than a news service, they would have to report the truth. Then where would they be? In a room with a couple of guys with AK-47s and a photocopy of their passport, their home phone number and a picture of their kids. I mean, really, the reporters got into the profession to change things and well, so what if these guys are thugs and the pictures are all staged? I mean it is not up to a "News Service" to figure out how to make everything work politically. These people are really pissed about everything so if Blair and Bush just get the hell out of the way someone with some brains will figure out how to make it work. And really, don't they have a point about Israel anyway? I mean, big deal. Is it worth a Nuclear War defending them? I mean, these guys are really not that bad as long as you do what they say, which is really just telling their side of it. I mean, sometimes you have to use symbolism in your stories and photos but most Americans are too stupid to understand anyway.
The most important thing is to keep our reporters safe and welcome in the War zones.

/BBC, Reuters, AP, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC

Bloody
Bastards of the
Caliphate

17 Talkin Kamel,

Maybe they were hoping it would go off, thereby giving them another "atrocity" to use against Israel.

I'm sure they were.

I bet the BBC photographer used a zoom lense to get the shot.

Where the fuck does Israel keep finding these turds:

Dichter: Golan tradable for peace with Syria

Minister of Public Security Avi Dichter said in an interview with “Galei Zahal” (IDF Radio) this morning that Israel can leave the Golan Heights in exchange for genuine peace with Syria. “We paid similar territorial prices for peace with Jordan and Egypt,”

And how has it worked out with Hezballah and Hamas?

The "story" is that an unexploded bomb is in a building. So why wouldn't a picture of this suffice? The TV and couch already demonstrate the scale fine visually. Oh yeah... the Jews are monsters who delight in traumatizing, wounding and killing children. That's the story. Of course the BBC happily concurs. Otherwise they'd say "Look, a photo without anyone staged to be in it would be far more appropriate. That's what we'll shoot and run."

Charles, how about adding a couple of infamous photos where the mass of photographers and lights are gathered around in what's portrayed as a private seen of grief?

The leftist media are delighted to be gun molls for the jihadis.

We talk about the child abuse here, but might the reporter and photographer have wanted to get the hell out of there if they thought the bomb would go off? Maybe martyrdom would be fine with them, but then, there'd be no pictures and story mislead the outside world.

So maybe this was staged, too. I can't even tell if the shell has a fuze on it - the pointy end seems broken off.

#38 Kragar

They are everywhere..delusional fucking idiots abound.

That stringer should be strung up... or at the very least charged with child endangerment...

Just-a-grunt

Everytime I see a picture of Hezbollah handing out good 'ol American greenbacks to these folks I fly into a blue rage. If we are so damn evil give us back our money. Nobody seems to call them on it.

Why shouldn't they hand it out? They printed it!

(oops, can't use this one. It's still wet.)

This may seem a minor comment when the topic is literally lethal -- but it does concern the BBC notion of ethics:

Their reporter in Jerusalem used to be one Barbara Plett -- the one who wept for Arafat -- and she always gave her reports with the gold-plated Dome of the Rock in the background.

For a while I thought that the BBC had rented a studio with a balcony where she could stand and jabber against a reminder that this is a HOLY MUSLIM CITY.

Then I caught one of her "real time" broadcasts when she was supposedly outdoors with the Gold Dome behind her -- and the sun was shining brightly and she was wearing a light summery dress.

But I knew of my personal knowledge that it was at that moment dark of night in Jerusalem with a strong wind and heavy rain.

So I finally realized: The BBC must have set up a PAINTED BACKDROP of the Holy Muslim Jerusalem that they used to accent all their local broadcasts.

Does that count at fauxtography?
Or maybe fauxtopography?

That's about as gucking foofy as the press can get...

Well, maybe not.

#35 Daybrother

LOL, I think you've done a great job channeling what the MSM really thinks!

#38 Kragar
Mr Dichter what are you willing to give up tomorrow for peace? The Muslims are patient. Getting a piece of Israel every 5 years ain't such a bad deal. In another 50 they will own it all.

#44 clio - I remember reading that recently concerning the studio backdrop-cum-live from Jerusalem silliness. Auntie Beeb will never declare the fact she is in cahoots with the enemy - it's self-evident!

What is the matter with these people?!?
Niether the mother nor the reporter has a care for a terrified little boy? It makes my blood boil!

From another part of the article:

One family has reopened their grocery shop, which was hit by Israeli rockets, and customers choose their purchases from among the broken shelves and shattered glass.

We should send over some Katrina survivors to teach them the fine art of looting!

#38 Kragar,

You have to remember that being Liberal is mental disorder, they have some really big ones in Israel; All the politicians in the cabinet are opportunistic without any political believes, Sharon assembled them from all the political parties to start the new one, then he pushed into early retirement all the military generals that objected to the use of the army for evacuating Gaze, leaving behind only the Generals that have no nationalistic drive.

#37 Ringo the Gringo

I'm sure they'd've swooned with delight if they could have gotten a pic of the kid being killed by the evil Jewish bomb---though #40, Kosh's Shadow, may be right in speculating that the whole thing was staged; "Okay kid, stand next to that evil Jewish bomb, and try to look scared!"

I mean seriously, can we believe anything these guys tell us anymore?

Boycott the BBC; in fact, boycott the entire MSM.

WriterMom, I owe you an Email!

:>)

#50 Jack

Speaking of Sharon....how is he doing with the double pnemonia?

Since that boob who says he killed JonBenet has taken over the media, I haven't heard any updates.

/just wondering

Unexploded Ordinance is a fact of war. French farmer routinely unearth WWI and WWII shells and bombs.

If the IAF dropped a MK82 on a target there is high probability it was a concentration of the Hizblowup guys in very close proximity to where it ended up. To bad it didn't go off and take 'em out.

Some OTs:

China’s Cyberwarriors

Many cybersecurity experts in the United States and Taiwan worried when Microsoft provided the Chinese government with access to the source code of its Windows operating system in 2003. Their fear was that access to the code would make it easier for China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to develop and carry out new information-warfare techniques. A recent series of cyberattacks directed against targets in Taiwan and the United States may confirm that “those fears now appear justified,” says a Taiwanese intelligence officer. Taiwan and China regularly engage in low-level information-warfare attacks. But the past few months have seen a noticeable spike in activity. “‘Blitz’ is an accurate description” of the recent attacks, says the Taiwanese security source. “It’s almost like . . . a major cyberwar exercise.”

Chinese Cyber War Munitions Factories

China is using it's labor advantage to build the world's largest arsenal of Information War weapons. It works like this. Information War weapons consist of freshly discovered, and exploitable, defects in software that runs on the Internet. You want to be the first person to find one of these defects, because these flaws enable a hacker to get into other peoples networks. Called "Zero Day Exploits" (ZDEs), in the right hands, these flaws can enable criminals to pull off a large online heist, or Cyber Warriors can do enormous damage to enemy networks.

Months of harassment silences Copt blogger

Reporters Without Borders (RWB) has condemned the months of harassment by Egyptian authorities in Qina that forced Hala Helmy Boutros to close down her blog "Aqbat Bela Hodood" (Copts Without Borders), which tackled the persecution of the Christian Coptic minority. To avoid further intimidation, (http://halaelmasry.blogspot.com/) was closed down and Boutros stopped writing for other Websites. Moreover, the 42-year-old Egyptian, who wrote under the pseudonym of Hala Al Masry, is now the target of a judicial investigation and is banned from leaving the country, RWB said in a press release.

'Blogosphere' expands 100-fold in three years

Fifty million blogs - online multi-media journals - were tracked on the Internet last month, a 100-fold increase over three years, according to a new study published online. Technorati, a website devoted to tracking the growth of the worldwide "blogosphere," claims their number has doubled every five to seven months since January 2004, and looks set to reach 100 million by next February.

ITALY: MUSLIM ANTI-ISRAEL NEWSPAPER AD SPARKS CONTROVERSY

An ad comparing Israel's actions in Lebanon and in the Palestinian territorties with Nazi atrocities during World War II placed by one of Italy's Muslim associations in several regional dailies has divided Muslim leaders. It has also provoked condemnation from politicians across the political spectrum and from the Jewish community.The ads were placed by the Union of Islamic Communities in Italy Association (UCOII) which is represented on a government-appointed advisory body on Islamic affairs, the Consulta Islamica.

greenmamba (#31),

From your linked reply letter from the BBC:

She reported: "I haven't seen a single building that isn't damaged in some way. Many have been flattened. Many have been singed. This town has really been wiped out."

Orla did not say that every building had been wiped out. She was using an impressionistic phrase implying extreme damage which is justified by the scale of what she saw.

No BBC. You're right. And thanks for pointing out that pointless fact. What she said was: This town has really been wiped out.

Maybe you would be better served by reporting with less impressionistic phrasing, which I believe would itself be an "impressionistic phrasing" of making shit up, and more honest reporting?

Through media reports from Hezbollah territory events and world opinion have jaundiced by partisanship, fear, selective reporting, trickery, malpractice and needless theatrics that became the norm. How this has been able to happen must be the subject of an urgent and deep investigation. If Adnan Hajj was far from acting alone that is far graver than the sort of anti-Israel opinion and selective reporting we are already used to. It fits only with the specific occasions of our media reporting to us sympathetically from launching and firing sites in Gaza, Iraq and Afghanistan, apparently resigned about the sheer mindless irresponsibility. A proper investigation - intelligence-led, not like the Hutton investigation - would be a start.

That is child endangerment.

Somewhat OT
Does anyone remember a thread or link a while back to a photographer who took pictures of the brave freedom fighter as he fired out a window maybe in afghanistan, maybe gaza , the room was a shambles and the gun toting young man rather adoringly shown and written about by the photog who was permitted nay welcome to join in the fun. This was before the rueter's photoshopping came to light , but when we all started taking note of the sympathetic photojournalists. bewfore the lebanon/Israeli war started so it would be that long ago.

i think. anyway , thanks in advance if anyone can remember or link to it.

I'lll check back.

A dud will not (probably) explode all by itself; you have to disturb it in some way. But the fact of pushing a young kid close to the dud to take a propaganda picture says a lot about the morality (or lack thereof) of Hizballah & co.

More on the MEDIA IS THE ENEMY...

CNN on Y-Net: We Are, Like SO NOT BIASED Against Israel!

"... Um Ali tells me... "But I have many other problems - there is no money, no work, my husband passed away two years ago."

I guess that is also Israel's fault.

#58 paint right

Does anyone remember a thread or link a while back to a photographer who took pictures of the brave freedom fighter as he fired out a window

Hotair had a vlog on that subject I believe and if not there then Michelle Malkin.

#54 Fjordman

The positive aspect is that some other prominent Italian Muslims condemned that vile ad - real condemnations, not weasel BUTs. A Moroccan woman, part of the Islamic Council, said she's ashamed of sitting as the same table with UCOII representatives.

Some lowly troll also copied&pasted that ad in the comments of my blog, and I deleted it straight away. I'm not helping to spread that crap.

Hold on a moment, folks. . . .

Let's see if I have this right. . . . .

A half ton bomb, dropped from what -- say 5000 feet? -- comes through a roof, leaving a little bit of debris on the floor (certainly no more than could be cleaned up in five or ten minutes) and winds up on it's side, without any noticeable dents in it?

This isn't child endangerment; this is another MSM staged photo.

Obviously that child needs to be reprogrammed. Any child that age should know that being a martyr is the highest achievement they can attain. And there he is, quaking like a little coward, nay, like an infidel, fearing for his life. And if he peed on himself, the fauxtogs would have laughed at his weakness and headed off to the bar for afternoon libations.

/sarcasm doesn't begin to define what I think of these creatures, all of them.

#64 Narniaman

You know what-you're right..very stinky. Other possibility-the bomb was being stored in their home with their consent-not inconsistent with other "civilian" storage spots for Hizballah.

#58 paint-right,

You can find the movie here:

Pallywood
Pallywood, "According to Palestinian Sources..." a film by Richard Landes. International news media extract a few convincing instants of staged scenes - sight-bytes, and present them as news...

#22 - LMAO!

#24 - Hate the sin, love the sinners money, or something like that.

#38 - I suppose there are weaker elements in every society willing to hand over something they did not toil to create rather than defend it.

I've spent some time around bombs, and I can tell you that if it IS a 2,000lb-er, the blast would be more than just a room-popper. Anyone in that unhardened structure (the camera man taking the pic, his handlers two rooms away, etc.) would be a gonner, not just the kid.

J'accuse!

Coupable!

Losers.

Narniaman (#64),

I would be amazed and I doubt it. What we can infer is the event was coordinated by a third party and the BBC complied despite a) the corruption of the report and b) the endangering of the child.

I thought that was a joke until I clicked the link.

It's not a joke - its the lede of the article.

/the only good thing about being beside yourself is being able to check your posture.

#64 Narniaman

Stranger things have happened. The dust layer over the bomb and other objects is intact, and that's not easy to make up. Anyway, the picture is too small to make any informed conclusion.

#60 WriterMom

Thanks for the link!

The media is the enemy! Boycott CNN. Boycott the BBC. Boycott the MSM.

#55 Geepers

From your linked reply letter from the BBC:

She reported: "I haven't seen a single building that isn't damaged in some way. Many have been flattened. Many have been singed. This town has really been wiped out."

Orla did not say that every building had been wiped out. She was using an impressionistic phrase implying extreme damage which is justified by the scale of what she saw.

No BBC. You're right. And thanks for pointing out that pointless fact. What she said was: This town has really been wiped out.

Maybe you would be better served by reporting with less impressionistic phrasing, which I believe would itself be an "impressionistic phrasing" of making shit up, and more honest reporting?

Thanks for the laugh. This has been a very grim thread for me.

I'm no expert, but the more I look a that photo, the more convinced I am that the bomb was posed there for the shot as well. The impact of a bomb that heavy hitting the floor, assuming it did not go through the floor, would have had to knock that TV off the table.

The media is so used to doing this staging that it is businees with usual with them. But of course, that is a necessary step if they are going to change the world, isn't it?

THAnks, JAck and just -a -grunt. I'll be checking those links out momentarily

Coffins are laid down for prayers before a mass funeral procession in Qana,

So what are those hezbollah flag draped coffins doing there?

Brave hezbollah fighters hiding in a basement eight hours after an Israeli airstrike causes a two story family home to collapse?

My

head

is

spinning

So many Caliphate's Whores.
So little time.

I need a nap.

[Link: www.pagebypagebooks.com...]

#30 writer mom,

Hi, Gveret! Thanks for your link to the BBC complaints page. You always have such relevant and useful links.:-) I wrote a sterling complaint, and if I hear anything back I'll let y'all know.

#59 fabio c,

Hi. I was thinking the BBC might use that argument in their defense, but as you pointed out, THE CHILD DIDN'T WANT TO APPROACH THE BOMB. Additionally, the article alluded to no weapons-dismantling expertise on the part of any of the BBC crew. IOW, they had no right to make that call. Pushing a child next to an unexploded bomb.

Even if the mother had acquiesced, the "educated" BBC crew should have ushered the child away. Just when you think they can't slither any lower...

MandyManners (#74),

My pleasure.

It's wierd ain't it? Basically you're pointing out there's egg on thier tie and the response is, "That's right honey, eggs come from chickens."

You, of course, having manners, like I do, simpley think: well if you want to go on national TV with egg on your tie: "Good luck."

Trade publication Editor & Publisher urges us to not get too exercised over the doctored photos. After all, that famous, Pulitzer Prize-winning shot of American soldiers raising the flag at Iwo Jima was staged.
Proving, of course, that E & P is part and parcel of the clueless Left, as it seeks to compare photos doctored in order to cast Israel in the worst possible light with a photo that served as a source of great inspiration for the U.S. in the dying days of WW2.

#81 scaramouche,

Now, now, you're forgetting your moral relativity here. Since that photo was "staged" way back when, that blew the lid off of photojournalism for all eternity and now it's perfectly okay to parade child corpses around for hours, and to photoshop any element you want into any photograph you want. Don't you see? It's a free, new, ethics-less world.

All because of the Iwo-Jima photograph.

/sarc

Joe Rosenthal (October 9, 1911 in Washington, D.C. – August 20, 2006 in Novato, California)[1] was a Jewish American photographer, who received the Pulitzer Prize for his iconic World War II portrait of American troops raising the flag on Mount Suribachi during the Battle of Iwo Jima.

The poor kid's in training to be a suicide bomber. If the BBC reporters had any morals, they'd snatch him and put him in an English foster home (one not run by islamofascists). They'd probably save more than one life.

I never could understand photojournalists walking into situations where there are starving or endangered people and not doing squat besides taking pictures.

I’d say this kid has more common sense than all the so-called adults combined.

.

I am shocked! Staged pics!
I am sure now that the Vid I just posted on my site is staged then too!

Arabs hate jiz fartin right?
Tha aras stand with us huh?

The stage mom and the BBC acting agent. Low-tography of the lowest.

Endangering the child, against his will, so as to get a "money shot."

Monsters.

Wait- but the child is Lebanese- doesn't he deserve to die? Isn't he an animal? He was in a hezbollah controlled area- so he's as good as a terrorist himself. Why is everyone so concerned about his life here?

I have a game: Everyone imagine an alternate scenario- where the story was him being killed by an Israeli shell. I could just imagine the tears, the sympathy, and the valiant calls of pity for the poor innocence of this child.

Oh right- in that case he would be filthy, terrorist- sympathizing scum who is worth nothing and deserves death.

Enough with the hypocrisy when it suits the agenda.

#48 6patric6

Auntie Beeb will never declare the fact she is in cahoots with the enemy ...

It's a cahootsapalooza!

( damn, that's funny, BabbaZ)

#79 merav

Hiya :0

#88 Affinity

Wait- but the child is Lebanese- doesn't he deserve to die? Isn't he an animal? He was in a hezbollah controlled area- so he's as good as a terrorist himself. Why is everyone so concerned about his life here?

Sounds like you are living in your own twisted universe, there.

There are real, living monsters in this case and that is the people who put the child next to the bomb and made him move it.

Do you have a problem with calling these Hizballah monsters?

If you are referring to some view, you'll have to post a specific comment. None of this generalizing nonsense.

#78 BabbaZee

So many ho's so little time..bwahahhahahaha.

Could someone who knows something about this please explain something to me.

This picture: close up on this link picture #4 shows what the Hiz'b'allah are claiming is an Israeli bomb in the kids home.

But the tail fin they claim came from the Israeli bomb is completely rusted out. How would a tail fin that is sitting there (maximum 30 days) be rusted out already?

This is the desert, is this really the best environment for rust?

I really don't know...this is why I open this question to the people of LGF.

In addition, is the shape of the hole made by the bomb, presumably droped from a plane, not also a bit curious?

#91- YankEU: the real, (spiritually) DEAD monsters next in line are the photographers, whose lust for 'powerful pictures' fueled the Hizbo-Nazi's desire to sate their lust, in THIS case, by pushing forward the child into harm's way!

The photographers share guilt squarely, in their position of accomplice AT the fact; and the photographers' EMPLOYERS share guilt at the secondary level by acting as accomplices AFTER THE FACT, knowingly BUYING and then BROADCASTING these tainted, diseased pictures!

Shame is yours, BBC!

#88 Affinity

Wait- but the child is Lebanese- doesn't he deserve to die? Isn't he an animal? He was in a hezbollah controlled area- so he's as good as a terrorist himself. Why is everyone so concerned about his life here?

Sounds like you are living in your own twisted universe, there.

There are real, living monsters in this case and that is the people who put the child next to the bomb and made him move it.

Do you have a problem with calling these Hizballah monsters?

If you are referring to some view, you'll have to post a specific comment. None of this generalizing nonsense.

Some view? I'm referring to the near-universal view held here that whoever has died on the Lebanese side of this conflict has deserved to die. Lebanon should have been 'wiped out' if necessary. The rage over the acceptance of a ceasefire, after the death of almost 1000 Lebanese. The fact that there hasnt been a single post of pity for ANY lebanese deaths, following ANY story surrounding the conflict. Noone can argue that a lebanese life is worth absolutely nothing here- regardless of the situation. I'm not making anything up here.

Yet- now this boy's life is worth something- because- *gasp* it can be used as a pretext to jab BBC. Can the veil of sympathy be any more transparent? I think that would be impossible.

Mr. or Ms. Affinity-what is your point?

#95 affinity

I'm referring to the near-universal view held here that whoever has died on the Lebanese side of this conflict has deserved to die.

Care to back that up with some quotes, or post numbers?

Or are you just trolling this evening?

Holy Poo! Wonder if the Little People's union is negotiating for Danger Pay.

affinity

What do you think of Hizb'Allah's practice of using civilians as shields?

#99 godfrey

You came to the soiree! I'm serving Maccabi beer and hummus and pita.

Is this where the party is?

Mr. or Ms. Affinity-what is your point?

I made the point crystal clear. The decision whther you would like to be willfully blind to it is up to you- not be. The point is selective human rights- when it fits the agenda.

And no, sorry, I'm not going to trawl and find posts for you. You can find them just fine yourself if you're interested- by opening any random recent topic here.

This is the first Lebanese life LGF has shown any outward concern about. Its not a coincidence. I don't see what part of my post you can really take issue with.

In short: Do most of them[Muslims] view Israel favorably? No. This ranges from neutrality to hate. Do I blame them? Of course I don't.

--Affinity

/This after it wasn't going to post anymore.

Hi writermom, hi CTP

We have a certain affinity, or had one.

#95 Affinity

I'm referring to the near-universal view held here that whoever has died on the Lebanese side of this conflict has deserved to die.

No, I don't read all the comments here, but the people with whom I am in discussion never express the view that all the civilian deaths are justified. I think you may be referring to your own perception of the "general view on LGF." This is the kind of foggy logic we see on dKos that results in no clarity of discussion.

Here are some of the viewpoints expressed on LGF that you may be confusing with lack of remorse for killed Lebanese innocents. Perhaps I have personally expressed these views.

(1) Sheer moral disgust at the use of human sheilds by the terrorists. If you know the concept of a "proximal cause", it means that the terrorists are guilty of the deaths of the innocents - who may in truth not be innocent at all. The Israelis had to kill the terrorists who are devoted to destroying their nation, killing each and every Jew.

(2) This was a just response by Israel to a large terrorist attack by Hizballah - Israel needed to take every means to wipe out, not the Lebanese, but the terrorists. You will agree that if Israel really wanted to, they could have simply bombed southern Lebanon; but they didn't and they paid a heavy price in the name of respect for the lives of innocents. This is a frustrating situation - created by the terrorists who have so little concern for the lives of the Lebanese.

(3) The use of the dead bodies for propaganda by the Hizballah.

(4) If you are civilian and you have a rocket in your home (as was the case often in the recent Lebanon conflict), you ought to expect to be a target.

(5) Most importantly, this is war. A war Israel did not start, a war with a genocidal, aggressive enemy and a war which was against terrorists hiding amongst ordinary people. In such a situation, one has to expect that there will be many civilian deaths because of this Hizballah tactic.

This is why I am asking for specific quotes, for I can easily imagine you confusing one of these viewpoints with a desire for civilian deaths in Lebanon.

#103 Roger

Can you post a link to that quote, please?

#102 Affinity

Lazy soul-pity :(

You know what? I was so shaken by the deaths of the Lebanese disabled kids that I had to leave work for a while. What do you think about the reports that mentally and physically disabled children were imported, to be used as sitting ducks-and then their bodies used as props for Hizballah propaganda?

Who are you angry at? Does that behaviour remind you of anyone?

(hint-lives not worth living..think eugenics...)

roger, godfrey, ctp...lovely to see you all.

#104 godfrey

Hi. I scanned back a few posts and I have no, um, affinity for affinity's blanket condemnation.

#106 Yank in the EU

Yep! The captialized Issue of Israel #501 Affinity 8/20/2006 09:44PM PDT

#108 WriterMom, hummus and pita ay?

#110 Roger

Thanks, Rog.

That's a clear case of "Affinity" acknowledging that Israel has enemies, which in fact are openly genocidal and whose leaders leaders regularly call for the annhilation of Israel, and then excusing them of moral responsibilty. So this is obvious moral idiocy.

We really shouldn't waste more time discussing with that kind of view - so much to do, so little time.

Deja Vu, all over again, did the troll thing last night. By the morning Charles had welded the TrollBat and *sighs* one less.

#95 Affinity

Some view? I'm referring to the near-universal view held here that whoever has died on the Lebanese side of this conflict has deserved to die. Lebanon should have been 'wiped out' if necessary. The rage over the acceptance of a ceasefire, after the death of almost 1000 Lebanese. The fact that there hasnt been a single post of pity for ANY lebanese deaths, following ANY story surrounding the conflict. Noone can argue that a lebanese life is worth absolutely nothing here- regardless of the situation. I'm not making anything up here.

What a load of horseshit.

The "rage" over the acceptance of the ceasefire is because the job of destroying Hezballah was not completed. Which means that it's only a matter of time before the rockets start landing on Israeli kids again -- but I guess that doesn't matter in your world.

The hezzies started it, Israel should have finished it. I mourn for each and every innocent Lebanese killed as I do for each and every Israeli killed.

As for the hezzies -- they are the ones using human shields, firing rockets from Christian neighborhoods knowing it'll bring retaliation on the Christian's heads after they've scurried back to the hellholes from which they emerged -- fuck them.

#105 correction: proximal => proximate

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#106 Yank in the EU

Yep! The captialized Issue of Israel #501 Affinity 8/20/2006 09:44PM PDT

Don't tell me anyone is taking issue with that comment? I was asked specifically what Muslims Ive spoken to think of Israel, as a non-muslim myself. I gave you guys a response- that in general it is not viewed favorably. I don't see what part of this anyone can possibly take issue with. I've never suffered because of Israel- but if I honestly tried to put myself in their shoes, and in their context and perspective-I believe I would feel the same way- which is why I cannot say that I blame them. Thats all I said- which is not a big leap in logic. I doubt theres many muslims at all who have a positive view of Israel- but this isnt a surprise to any of you, nor me.

I'm not sure what anyone can indict me of with that simple, logical statement based in realityunless is grasping at straws trying to slander me. Just like if I was Israeli- I doubt I would hold a favorable view of Palestinians. Simple.

#112 Yank in the EU

so much to do, so little time.

lol! Seriously, I shall take your advice. I go play hockey and pretend to be young again. Till another day.

And please noone suggest as I hold any sympathy to Hezbollah. Them being wiped off the earth would be a good thing for both Lebanon and Israel. But this wasnt the point.

#94 Carradine

#91- YankEU: the real, (spiritually) DEAD monsters next in line are the photographers, whose lust for 'powerful pictures' fueled the Hizbo-Nazi's desire to sate their lust, in THIS case, by pushing forward the child into harm's way!

I know they are monsters and the BBC should be absolutely horrifying in the eyes and hearts of the world. But something has gone wrong in many people's minds - I believe it is this leftist ideology. It's so powerful that it would lead a presidential candidate to claim global warming is the greatest threat to humanity. Or should I say 'manbearpig'...

People who believe things like that, moral idiots, are truly the greatest threats to humanity.

affinity

Oh, good grief. Yank and CTP and others have said it well. I'm one of those who am mad as hell that the gutless, depraved Hizb'Allah has put civilians in harm's way deliberately. No one deserves to die simply for being near those who are evil.

Since this is the BBC, I would have thought it actually would have been a half-ton bomb

After a quick stroll..

the Lebanesee dance with glee and distribute candy when Israelis, women and children are killed

OF COURSE THEY ARE WORSE THAN ANIMALS
and there would not have been ANY Lebanese deaths, if the two Israeli soldiers had been returned

If Israel has to kill every f****** arab in the ME to secure the safety of the Jewish People, then I'm past caring.

I hope they turn Lebanon into a fucking parking lot

That is why I am all for bombing them out of existence, because that is what they are trying to do to me.

....have you spotted the rare moderate muslim?

Anything else? Or do these not satisfy the requirement?

Not that after any one of those insane comments- not a single other poster bothered to challenge the statements. What is one supposed to conclude from that?

Oh, and the 3rd quote from bottom was referring to Lebanon- not hezbollah. Just to avoid confusion.

#124 affinity

Please. I find it interesting that only two of the five comments you cherry-picked are over the top (the parking lot and the "all Arabs" comments) -- the others aren't out of line at all. The others are innocuous -- hell, even the "boming them out of existence, because that is what they are trying to do to me" is reasonable, as it is implied that he is talking about the ones (presumably the hezzies) who want him dead.

As for not challenging them, I personally think people go overboard myself, but it gets old having the same arguments day in and day out. What's the point? Where were you six or eight months ago when damn near every thread devolved into the same damn arguments after somebody challenged an over-the-top statement?

#123 Affinity

I don't have time to post now. But these sound like rants by someone quite upset -- ones that LGF generally does not tolerate.

I would agree with godfrey and say I certainly do feel remorse at civilian deaths. I would also refer to the points about the conflict I made in #105.

Look, on any web comments section, there are going to be over-the-top comments. If genocidal rants are commonplace and the community does not stand up the poster, that is a problem; frankly, I don't see that problem here in general.

#95 Affinity:

I'm referring to the near-universal view held here that whoever has died on the Lebanese side of this conflict has deserved to die. Lebanon should have been 'wiped out' if necessary. The rage over the acceptance of a ceasefire, after the death of almost 1000 Lebanese. The fact that there hasnt been a single post of pity for ANY lebanese deaths, following ANY story surrounding the conflict.

"Near-universal view held here"?
Well, it's certainly not been my view. And I haven't seen anyone else here take satisfaction from the deaths of Lebanese children. This website has a search facility; if you can find such posts, please do so.

What we have said, is that the deaths of all the innocents--on all sides--are the fault of Hezbollah and Iran. If Hezbollah did not exist, or had not done what it did, Israel would not have counterattacked and those Lebanese children would still be alive. If Iran weren't funding Hezbollah and egging it on, Hezbollah could not have done what it did.

Now the reason we're opposed to this sham U.N.-imposed "cease fire" is because it does not disarm Hezbollah. And as long as Hezbollah remains armed (and resupplied by Iran through Syria), there will come another war someday, and more innocents are going to be killed.

We don't like cease-fires that just put off the killing for another inevitable day. We want a lasting peace in which Hezbollah's ability to threaten that peace no longer exists.

We're sick of kicking the can down the road. We don't want to have to come back here in another year or so to lament even more tragic deaths. It's time to put Hezbollah out of business permanently. And it's also time to put Iran out of business permanently. Then both Israel and Lebanon will have a chance to achieve lasting peace.

Besides putting an inncoent child next to a live bomb, it seem supicicous that the TV and stand is alomost untouched. For a 1,000 pound bomb dropped, from a plane to land inches from a TV stand wiht no major damage is seems strange.

#117 Affinity:

Just like if I was Israeli- I doubt I would hold a favorable view of Palestinians. Simple.

It's not "simple" at all. Israel did NOT, I repeat NOT, get any Lebanese civilians killed out of any sort of personal or racial or even religious malice toward those people. Nobody in Israel said "Those Lebanese aren't Jews like us, and that's why they deserve their fate." Those Lebanese were tragically killed as collateral damage because they were used as human shields by the aggressor, Hezbollah. Israel wouldn't have killed a single Lebanese if Hezbollah hadn't started this war.

On the other hand, Muslims cheer each and every time they kill a Jew, of any age. Just because they're Muslims and he's a Jew, an infidel, a trespasser in Dar al-Islam. Arab Muslims do wage jihad based on religious and racial hate for their victims. For the latter, you have only to look at what's been happening in Darfur.

I'm sick and tired of this moral equivalence crap. Let me spell it out for you:

Hezbollah is the aggressor. And both Israel and Lebanon are victims of Hezbollah.

On 9-11, al-Qaeda was the aggressor. America was the victim.

93 WrathofG-d

In addition, is the shape of the hole made by the bomb, presumably droped from a plane, not also a bit curious?

Look a little closer at the bottom of the hole .... looks like a drawing of the fins to a rocket ... amazing that the 'hole' is the exact shape of the cone of the rocket and, thus, has obliterated the top of the drawing.

This artwork is on what is supposed to be a roof ?

/funky placement for art if you ask me

//and truly a miracle that the 'bomb' hit right on target

#124 affinity
Please. I find it interesting that only two of the five comments you cherry-picked are over the top (the parking lot and the "all Arabs" comments) -- the others aren't out of line at all. The others are innocuous -- hell, even the "boming them out of existence, because that is what they are trying to do to me" is reasonable, as it is implied that he is talking about the ones (presumably the hezzies) who want him dead.

And please- let’s not be silly here. I was asked to find comments to justify what I stated- which I did, I na very short time. Cherry pick? Was I expected to blindly select random bits of text, or select every 5th post? Come on.
Also, about that quote, I made explicit reference to the fact that he stated ‘The lebanese’- not Hezbollah before the quote.

As for not challenging them, I personally think people go overboard myself, but it gets old having the same arguments day in and day out. What's the point? Where were you six or eight months ago when damn near every thread devolved into the same damn arguments after somebody challenged an over-the-top statement?

Can’t agree with this. Any poster I’ve seen that has deviated even slightly from the theme of complete agreeance (and I’m talking one or two posters total) has been ripped to shreds and called every derogatory term in the creative lexicon, from terrorist-supporting whore, to a nazi, to a collaborator- you get the picture. Yet I have not seen a SINGLE post of condemnation to the extremely prevalent and utterly insane posts deriding and wishing death and suffering to the entire muslim religion, the entire arab ethnic group, and condoning extreme murder and mass destruction to anyone affiliated or associated with these groups- on the contrary, they get thumbs up from other posters. I believe this insinuates general agreement to the mentality expressed. It’s the only feasible conclusion.

What we have said, is that the deaths of all the innocents--on all sides--are the fault of Hezbollah and Iran. If Hezbollah did not exist, or had not done what it did, Israel would not have counterattacked and those Lebanese children would still be alive. If Iran weren't funding Hezbollah and egging it on, Hezbollah could not have done what it did.

I don’t plan on getting into this, and I certainly agree that these groups are responsible to a very large extent. But this kind of historical cause-and-effect can certainly work both ways, and examples can be found on both sides. I certainly see a problem of completely and utterly absolving the nation dropping bombs of responsibility. This makes no logical sense- and is a very dangerous mentality.

Now the reason we're opposed to this sham U.N.-imposed "cease fire" is because it does not disarm Hezbollah. And as long as Hezbollah remains armed (and resupplied by Iran through Syria), there will come another war someday, and more innocents are going to be killed.

Understood. However, one can take issue with the predicted success of a continued campaign. As much as Id like Hezbollah out of the picture, the campaign after a month seemed to be doing infinitely more damage to the innocents, and to the future and security of the country than to Hezbollah. One has to wonder whether extending the campaign for another month would have been acceptable in terms of Israeli deaths (both in civilians in Israel and soldiers in Lebanon) and mass Lebanese civilian deaths- as well as having no guarantee of degrading Hezbollah’s power. A militia supported by the population is nothing like an army, nor can it be predictably dealt with like one.

#117 Affinity:
Just like if I was Israeli- I doubt I would hold a favorable view of Palestinians. Simple.

It's not "simple" at all. Israel did NOT, I repeat NOT, get any Lebanese civilians killed out of any sort of personal or racial or even religious malice toward those people. Nobody in Israel said "Those Lebanese aren't Jews like us, and that's why they deserve their fate." Those Lebanese were tragically killed as collateral damage because they were used as human shields by the aggressor, Hezbollah. Israel wouldn't have killed a single Lebanese if Hezbollah hadn't started this war.
On the other hand, Muslims cheer each and every time they kill a Jew, of any age. Just because they're Muslims and he's a Jew, an infidel, a trespasser in Dar al-Islam. Arab Muslims do wage jihad based on religious and racial hate for their victims. For the latter, you have only to look at what's been happening in Darfur.

It’s telling that after your first paragraph condemning racial prejudice and malice, you follow-up with the second, making the ridiculous generalizations of ‘muslims’. I’m sorry to say that this type of statement is simply not true, and really lowers the level of discourse. They’re counter-productive and really ignore the issues that are actually present. Throwing the Darfour situation with this crisis certainly will not bring anything enlightening- there are very little parallels, and that region has its own history of ethnic strife. The issue of Israel and Lebanon has its own history and is unique to other situations, as are the players involved.

Hezbollah is the aggressor. And both Israel and Lebanon are victims of Hezbollah. .

I have no qualms about Hezbollah being an aggressor. But I also can’t agree with Israel being an absolute victim. I believe, unfortunately, the actions that were taken this month by both parties only helped to decrease Israel’s long term security situation.

On 9-11, al-Qaeda was the aggressor. America was the victim.

Certainly no argument here. Nor will a single soul on this planet disagree.
As for the comments about the photos and their ‘staging’- I’m sorry, I find this just utterly silly. Just like when I saw a photo of a car, amid rubble and multiple buildings completely leveled in the background- and the whole discussion was analyzing if the damage to that car was caused by a missile or not. Or why a certain rock looked funny. I think this kind of obsession only undermines the (real) massive destruction and humanitarian crisis that IS actually present in the country. It’s like asking questioning on whether the scratch on his arm was self induced, while his head is clearly blown off. I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say.
As for the inevitable barrage of attacks and jabs I will reecive- that’s your choice. I made it a point not to slander, denigrate, or childishly insult anyone.

That is *not* a 1000 pound bomb.

Here are pictures of 1000 pound bombs. None of them is close to the size depicted here.

Re the Iwo Jima picture mentioned by several people above --

The photographer, Joe Rosenthal, who passed away last week at the age of 94, always insisted that it was NOT STAGED.

Who ever produced any evidence or plausible arguments that it was staged?

Affinity,

It’s telling that after your first paragraph condemning racial prejudice and malice, you follow-up with the second, making the ridiculous generalizations of ‘muslims’. I’m sorry to say that this type of statement is simply not true, and really lowers the level of discourse.

Stating that Muslims cheer when Jews are slaughtered it neither racism nor malice. It's the truth. You may not like it, but it remains the truth. If you think that is "racial prejudice", you have not a clue. Besides, since when did "Muslim" become a race?

What lowers the level of discourse, in my opinion, is people like you, who are more offended by people telling the truth than by the harsh reality of the truth itself.

I have no qualms about Hezbollah being an aggressor. But I also can’t agree with Israel being an absolute victim. I believe, unfortunately, the actions that were taken this month by both parties only helped to decrease Israel’s long term security situation.

Uuh, one is a terrorist organization, the other is a country.

Unbelievable, the stupidity that passes for debate these days.

I think this kind of obsession only undermines the (real) massive destruction and humanitarian crisis that IS actually present in the country.

Obsessing, as you call it, over the media's dangerous propaganda, it just as important as anything else, including the humanitarian crisis that is present in Israel -- I know you meant Lebanon, but I thought I'd just point out your bias to you.

The media lies, and the world sees Israel as some kind of big, bad wolf that she isn't. The danger in that is that it translates into more dead Jews. Sorry if that annoys you, but I will fight the media for the rest of my natural life. Besides, I despise liars, whether they're in front of or behind a camera, or nowhere near one at all.

Why should Israel be made to take responsibility for things she did not do? Why should we have to tolerate the lies and propaganda the media feeds us, wrapped up as "reporting"?

Open your eyes already.

Affinity,

Stating that Muslims cheer when Jews are slaughtered it neither racism nor malice. It's the truth. You may not like it, but it remains the truth. If you think that is "racial prejudice", you have not a clue. Besides, since when did "Muslim" become a race?

What lowers the level of discourse, in my opinion, is people like you, who are more offended by people telling the truth than by the harsh reality of the truth itself.

Well- since you repeated the word 'truth' as much times as you did- I really have nowhere to go, do I. But I'm not sure what you're trying to convince me of. Are there muslims who cheer when jews are slaughtered? I’m sure that there’s a few here and there. Is it a significant percentage of the muslim population of the world? I have absolutely no reason to believe that. You're generalizing about a number of people 5X that of the population of the United-States, who have as much varying opinions within themselves as everyone else on the planet. Here's a newsflash- the media has no interest in focusing on those who aren't cheering or giving sensationalist comments.
As a matter of fact, I happened to be visiting Lebanon a couple yrs ago, where I was outside around a large group of people listening to the news of a suicide bombing in Tel Aviv. Those around me were quite a varied audience in terms of age demographics and education. Guess what? No cheering. Alot of heated political talk, about how the attacks are counterproductive, and other aspects of the situation- but no 'glee'. I trust basing reality on my life experiences, rather than the media's obsession with the most sensationalist footage to broadcast. I see no reason why you're so confident I'm somehow missing this elusive 'truth' you speak of.

Uuh, one is a terrorist organization, the other is a country.
Unbelievable, the stupidity that passes for debate these days.

I called them both parties- that offended you? A governmental body that makes decisions is a party. A terrorist organization is also a party. A party is a general term used to specify any type of group, and I was trying to be as brief as possible. You want to call that stupidity? Be my guest- that's your right.

I think this kind of obsession only undermines the (real) massive destruction and humanitarian crisis that IS actually present in the country.

Obsessing, as you call it, over the media's dangerous propaganda, it just as important as anything else, including the humanitarian crisis that is present in Israel -- I know you meant Lebanon, but I thought I'd just point out your bias to you.

I'm waiting for the part where you point out my bias. Stating there is a humanitarian crisis in Lebanon (an undisputed fact) makes me biased? Do I have to go to the level of prefacing every statement I make with the fact that I acknowledge the damage in Israel?
Better yet, point me to anywhere where I trivialized the damage in Israel- I did not, and would never do so. Its obvious I was pointing out the real Lebanese devastation in context of examinations of the photos, and scrutinizing the causes of the damage. I was making sure the bigger picture isn’t overlooked. Scrutinize a photo in Israel, and I will happily do the same favor for Israel in terms of pointing out Israel’s . Please, do not put up straw men in order to accuse me of bias. It doesn’t work if there’s no basis for it, and there’s nothing in my statement that constitute any sort of bias or exaggeration.

The media lies, and the world sees Israel as some kind of big, bad wolf that she isn't. The danger in that is that it translates into more dead Jews. Sorry if that annoys you, but I will fight the media for the rest of my natural life. Besides, I despise liars, whether they're in front of or behind a camera, or nowhere near one at all.

I also despise liars, we'll agree to that. And I'll go a step further and state that media lies and bias translates into more dead innocents- jews, muslims, and christians.

Why should Israel be made to take responsibility for things she did not do? Why should we have to tolerate the lies and propaganda the media feeds us, wrapped up as "reporting"?

Open your eyes already.

I would never suggest that Israel be made responsible for things she did not do- that’s pretty illogical. And I agree again on lies and propaganda, which are unfortunately no prevalent and so intertwined with the news these days- making the terms subjective to anyone who watches, and forcing the viewer and the reader to be as diligent as possible in getting to the real issues of the story.

As for my eyes- they’re wide open, trust me. I think Israel is a beautiful country, as I stated before I have had the fortune of visiting. So is Lebanon. I’ve had the opportunity to speak to regular people on the ground in both countries about the conflict. I personally know and communicate with people on both sides, affected by the conflict. For this reason I’ve learned to be extremely jaded towards media coverage and what is said. I’m not one to be influenced by pundits on either side of the political spectrum- because its clear they are both full of it. Trust me- my eyes are wide open. We may differ slightly on the tactics needed to most effectively prevent bloodshed on both sides- hardly something for which you can accuse me of being blind.

God be with you.

#93 WoG

The shape of the hole is OK: bombs do in fact travel in a horizontal asset for most of their trajectory. It can be seen clearly in WWII bombing videos.

The rust on the tailfin is a bit strange, however steel does rust faster where is deformed by a stress. There is also the neat impression of a tailfin on the roof's concrete. But considering what we've seen coming from Lebanon, I cannot exclude that another tailfin was taken there to emebellish the image. Or, someone in the IAF let that bomb rust while in storage.

Do I have to go to the level of prefacing every statement I make with the fact that I acknowledge the damage in Israel?

No, you don't have to exaggerate, but when you talk about devastation, it is clear that you are not referring to Israel. Do the Israelis not suffer, do the Israelis not bleed? That is bias, when your concern is so transparently for one side.

I feel for the Lebanese, believe me, but I do not accept that their suffering be blamed on Israel. Hizbollah started this disgusting war, and then added insult to injury by using Lebanese civilians as human shields.

By the way, there are more than a "few here and there" who cheer when Jews are murdered. Maybe not when you were in Lebanon at the time of the Tel Aviv bombing, but in general, around the world, and especially the Palestinians, there is plenty ululating and candy-throwing. Remember how they celebrated 9/11? How are you going to excuse that away?

Alot of heated political talk, about how the attacks are counterproductive, and other aspects of the situation- but no 'glee'.

But no sadness or regret, no feeling bad for the deaths of hundreds of innocent people -- that would be too much to ask. Such cold-blooded expedience has no value. Everything is political, and for selfish purposes, and that is supposed to be acceptable to me. Were I to express similar views, you'd accuse me of racism and malice. From Muslims such behaviour is acceptable because Israel is such a terrible menace to the world, especially the Islamic world.

I say Muslims are like spoilt two-year olds in a constant state of tantrum. It doesn't matter how much they have, it's not enough. There is a level of selfishness in the Arab world that is not present in the rest of the world. Selfishness, greed, and ruthlessness. Israel is tiny, Israel is not interested in war, and since the day she was created, she has had nothing but war forced upon her by vicious Arab armies.

For all of that, you're telling me that it's perfectly understandable that Muslims hate Israel for her "policies". I call bullshit on it all -- it's a handy cover for their toxic Jew-hatred.

Real cost of war damage rises to NIS 6 billion, double initial estimates

... for a war that Israel didn't start, and certainly didn't want!

Who cares though, right? The Jews don't need to eat. Who cares if a million Jews lived in bunkers for over a month? Who cares if the children are traumatized for years to come? They're just Jews.

Lebanese forced to leave were "refugees", but not the hundreds of thousands of Jews forced to leave their homes and cities.

I know one family who left everything on the dinner table, put their children in the car, with just the clothes they were wearing, and drove for 2 1/2 hours to the wife's sister's place. They thought they'd be able to return after two days. More than a month later they were still drifting around with their three children, staying with various friends and family members willing to take them in. That is ONE story -- there are thousands upon thousands just like it. But hey, they're just Jews.

Above all else, I no longer have an ounce of patience left for the stinking hypocrisy and double-standard that the world forces upon the Jews.

If any other country had 200 rockets fired at its civilian population, day in and day out for a month, I doubt the rest of the world would reprimand them for using "disproportionate force" when they fought back. It's a disgrace, an ugly stain upon the world, and one that will come back to haunt ... of this, I have no doubt. The rush to a cease-fire was not for Israel's benefit -- not at all. Hizbollah now refuses to disarm, the Lebanese are still being held hostage by this "party" that you put on equal footing with a sovereign state's government, and the UN are wimping out as we knew they would.

Affinity,

You joined the thread with a comment to homogenise, dehumanise and blunt the various positions stated. You generalised to all of LGF and put very clearly that nobody here grieves for innocent Lebanese. Several posters have since commented to clarify that while they believe the effort is justified, there is no glory in the killing of innocents. However, many people here do not believe Israel is cynical and there is no shortage of explanations for the reports of many civilian casualties. Some of these explanations have already been put to you.

If you think that there is a consensus here to dominate, subjugate and kill Arabs, you are being quite dopey. You will definitely read irresponsible remarks here and on most blogs, but to use them as a slur on everyone else is unacceptable.

Since you have done this, I will add I have spoken to Lebanese Sunni Muslims as well as Christians. They absolutely hate Syria and Hizbollah and are quietly cheering Israel on to get Syria out of their country. It is their biggest wish. I specifically asked around because I was being interviewed and didn't want to say anything mindless, offensive or irresponsible, and I was very firmly requested to emphasise that point.

Please acknowledge that posters here get upset about misreporting as illustrated above, and the attention to this subject cannot be put down to lack of goodwill. Either these photo-ops are being cynically coordinated or they aren't, is the point, and if they are, we are angry at the sheer corruption and trampling on Israel's point-of-view by airing pure propaganda, great shots. It is a massive problem.

I for one am deeply pained by the civilian death toll. It is valid to say Hezbollah are responsible, but we can also say Israel is responsible, for engaging at all. That still would not help us to establish a way of stopping Hezbollah attacking. All Israel can do about civilian casualties is either apologise, or take hits. What Hizbollah can do is stop endangering civilian lives. That doesn't have to mean relinquishing their war. It has to mean valuing life over agitprop.

Finally let me reiterate I'm pissed off that you come on with disrespect for the variety of views and trashing everyone's humanity. Asking people to show some respect and responsibility can have at least the same effect, but doesn't smack so much of reactionary bile.

#132 Affinity

And please- let’s not be silly here. I was asked to find comments to justify what I stated- which I did, I na very short time. Cherry pick? Was I expected to blindly select random bits of text, or select every 5th post? Come on.

No, I don't expect random selection. However, if you are trying to support your position, I expect better than 40% of the posts you select to actually support your position.

Also, about that quote, I made explicit reference to the fact that he stated ‘The lebanese’- not Hezbollah before the quote.

You made explicit reference in a follow-up post that I hadn't seen until after I posted my response. Let's be honest, shall we?

Can’t agree with this. Any poster I’ve seen that has deviated even slightly from the theme of complete agreeance (and I’m talking one or two posters total) has been ripped to shreds and called every derogatory term in the creative lexicon, from terrorist-supporting whore, to a nazi, to a collaborator- you get the picture. Yet I have not seen a SINGLE post of condemnation to the extremely prevalent and utterly insane posts deriding and wishing death and suffering to the entire muslim religion, the entire arab ethnic group, and condoning extreme murder and mass destruction to anyone affiliated or associated with these groups- on the contrary, they get thumbs up from other posters. I believe this insinuates general agreement to the mentality expressed. It’s the only feasible conclusion.

Why don't you give that tired meme a rest? There have been many flame wars here when people have pointed out ridiculously over-the-top statements, as you have already been told. You just registered two or three days ago, yet you make broad sweeping generalizations about the type of comments people here make -- then you have the audacity to bitch at us about making generalizations about muslims (after literally thousands of terror acts committed by the few, dancing in the streets by the many in support, and a deafening silence from the rest with regard to condemnation.) There are numerous long-term posters who no longer post here because they got tired of the constant flame wars.

Charles has even shut down threads because of the bickering, and has asked us to cease and desist. This is his sandbox, as they say. (That's not to say people don't make the occasional comment, though.)

With respect to your "It's the only feasible conclusion" comment, I place no faith in one's ability to draw conclusions when that one gets 2 out of 5 comments (and I'm being generous) that he himself (pardon if you are female) selected to support his own position wrong.

But it was such important symbolism.

Or, someone in the IAF let that bomb rust while in storage.

Not a scientific thing, but cars in LA almost never rust, and Israel is mostly drier than LA.

More to the point, how many dumb bombs is israel dropping. If this bomb was retro-fitted with a laser guidance device, where is it now and who has it?