LGF

 RetweetMAS Plans "Pray-In" at Reagan Airport

Sat, Nov 25, 2006 at 8:31:31 am PST

Another Muslim Brotherhood front group jumps into the airport imam controversy, as the Muslim American Society (lgf: search) plans a sideshow at Reagan National Airport in Washington DC, this Monday: Imam Barred From US Airways Flight Joins Interfaith Clerics and NAACP Leader for Press Conference, Prayer, and Flight on US Airways ; MAS Freedom Conducts Airport ‘Pray-in’ and Press Conference.

WASHINGTON, Nov. 22 /U.S. Newswire/ — On Monday, November 27th, 8:15 AM, at the US Airways ticket counter located in the Reagan National Airport, Imam Omar Shahin, one of the six Imams removed from US Airways flight 300, will join Imam Mahdi Bray, executive director of the MAS Freedom Foundation, Rabbi Arthur Waskow of the Shalom Center of Philadelphia, Rev Graylan Hagler of the United Church of Christ, Hillary Shelton, director of the NAACP-Washington National Office, and other interfaith members for a press statement, public prayer, and flight departure on US Airways.

The “pray-in” is in response to US Airways’ removal of Imam Omar Shahin and five other Imams traveling from a religious leader’s conference in Minnesota. Three of the Imams were observed praying prior to departure. Subsequent to boarding the plane, the six were removed from the flight, handcuffed, and detained in the airport for questioning for over five hours. Upon release, US Airways and other airlines refused to allow them to purchase tickets for other scheduled flights to Phoenix.

“The detention of these religious leaders, and the refusal of the airline to allow them travel, is a gross example of blatant Islamophobia and the violation of the civil rights of Muslim passengers”, said Imam Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation.

“The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion and speech. It’s a shame that as an African-American and a Muslim I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while Black and flying while Muslim. We charge the airline with not only discrimination, but with an action that is insulting and demeaning to these Muslim religious leaders, and to all people of faith.”

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153 comments

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1 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:33:05am

There goes any pretense of the NAACP being about civil rights...

2 JammieWearingFool  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:33:13am

The distinguished scent of a scam in action.

3 Beagle  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:33:21am

No shortage of religious dhimmis with straw for brains. Too bad we can't harness the energy of stupidity to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

4 m  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:33:43am

Oh good grief.

5 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:34:53am
“The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion and speech. It’s a shame that as an African-American and a Muslim I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while Black and flying while Muslim.

If you were a woman in Saudi Arabia, the driving while black thing would be a moot point.

Stop blubbering, you baby.

6 JammieWearingFool  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:34:58am

The NAACP has honed the art of fabrication in recent years. They just want in on the latest action.

7 BulgarWheat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:35:13am

Maybe the imam can take the train...

just a thought

8 Murqtaad  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:35:48am
It’s a shame that as an African-American and a Muslim I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while Black and flying while Muslim.

And as a white non muslim male it's a shame I have to worry about that too. Selfish prick.

9 Beagle  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:35:54am

Notice the MSM always leaves out the un-American statements and three of the "men of faith" flying one-way with no checked bags. If religion is the only motive for a particular crime, it's not profiling to notice that glaring fact. I'm pretty sure "Allahu Akbar" translates to "I'm going to kill somebody."

10 lowandslow  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:36:04am

They better start driving now if they want to get there by Monday.

11 ziggy  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:36:30am

I hope this PR stunt completely backfires on CAIR, but somehow I doubt it. The MSM coverage will be orgasmic.

12 pmr12002  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:38:06am
I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while Black and flying while Muslim.

What A Baby this guy is.

13 LSD  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:39:06am

Hopefully, there will be those in the area that show up to expose Imam Omar Shahin and CAIR's links to Hamas and Al Qaeda ...

14 doppelganglander  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:40:07am

Hey, I think I'll stage a Christian pray-in at Riyadh Airport -- oh, wait, never mind. I prefer my head attached to my body.

15 wong fei hung  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:40:30am

TARGET-RICH ENVIRONMENT

16 Murqtaad  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:40:44am

Do we have any Satanists here who could meet up with the muslims? Kind of an interfaith rally for yer boy, satan.

17 Bill Amos  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:41:44am

I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while Black and flying while Muslim.

And I have the whammy of having to worry if I will be blown up on a plane because some crazy Muslim who might be black thinks that is his way to get to heaven.

We all have to put up with our own little intolerances dont we ?

18 lowandslow  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:44:18am
“The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution

That may be, but flying on an airline ain't.

19 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:44:44am

#16 Murqtaad

Do we have any Satanists here who could meet up with the muslims? Kind of an interfaith rally for yer boy, satan.

Paging Fred Phelps. Paging Rev. Fred Phelps...

20 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:46:02am

Subversion, at its best.

I AM THREATENED BY YOU, and you complain.

Perfect.

21 christheprofessor  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:47:58am

Perhaps a counter-pray in, by Christians, Jews, Hindus, et al, is in order...

22 Globular Cluster  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:48:53am

Call the whaaa- mbulance.

23 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:49:03am

#20 Poitiers-Lepanto

They learned well from their Soviet masters: When caught with your hands in the cookie jar, complain loudly about the people who caught you.

24 scooter  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:49:35am

Too bad these a$$hats don't put their time and energy into dealing with terrorism instead of using it as an avenue/excuse to "assert their civil rights" as though we need to relive the 60's again.

Oh...of course. That's not really the point, is it?


On a different note, this should be interesting to watch as it unfolds:

"MOSCOW: During the Soviet era, Russian human-rights defenders looked to the West as our only hope for leverage on a government that was utterly unaccountable to its people. It is surreal to find myself in that position again today.

Outside pressure is now the only hope of stopping President Vladimir Putin from leading Russia back to the past, but the governments of the European Union don't seem keen to exert such pressure. The EU-Russia summit on Friday, which comes after a particularly bleak period for human rights in Russia, is a test of the EU's mettle. As a Russian working in human rights since the Soviet era, I am watching closely with hope that the EU will reverse years of speaking softly to Russia, and use a big stick."
...
"European officials say they'd like to take strong positions, but that, well, they need the gas, so they have no leverage. I'm not offended, just baffled. No one questions the EU's need to seek energy security. But the assumption that pursuing a robust human-rights policy would lead to the Kremlin shutting off the gas is facile. Avoiding high-level engagement on human-rights issues for so many years is no guarantee of energy security, and it has emboldened the government to become more authoritarian."

If not the EU, then who?Alexander Petrov / International Herald TribunePublished: November 24, 2006
[Link: www.iht.com...]

If not the EU, the who? My guess is nobody. And I certainly hope they don't ask the US for help.

Naturally, I have never met Putin, but it seems to me that the notion of calling him on the rug for human-rights issues is of little concern when he holds the upper hand with regard to energy issues.

Let's see...who else do the EU types depend on for energy...

25 Jack Reacher  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:50:11am
“The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution..."

So are life and liberty, meaning nobody has the right to cut yours short just because you're a kuffir in his eyes. Hey, Mr. Bray (Excellent name, by the way), why not hold a pray-in at Ground Zero in Manhattan, or that field in Shanksville? Your six imams aren't nearly as well-known as those other nineteen fellows who "flew while Muslim."

26 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:51:08am

#21 christheprofessor

Ain't gonna happen. While muslims have their foreskins removed, it seems like followers of the rest of the religions have their testacles removed.

27 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:53:30am

#24 scooter

Too bad these a$$hats don't put their time and energy into dealing with terrorism instead of using it as an avenue/excuse to "assert their civil rights" as though we need to relive the 60's again.

Who said they want to deal with terrorism? They're doing everything they can to make terrorism easy and safe. They are terrorism supporters.

28 flipflop  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:55:39am

I might have to head up to DCA early Monday morning with my camera and camcorder.

29 scooter  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:55:58am

#27 E2m

Yeah, I shoulda used a sarc tag! :D

30 vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:56:26am

Ahhh, crap.

Are there too many days left before the end of all this shit to spend them all drunk?

Might be worth the effort just to ignore these dicks.

31 mts  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:57:22am

I usually pray before getting on a discount airline flight, too.

But it's usually to myself, since God's supposed to hear that, too. It's worked so far.

That Allah must be one deaf %^&*@ for these guys to have to loudly yayayayayya their prayers before takeoff.

And the other difference between me and them: I'm praying that we don't crash...

32 SagamoreGal  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:57:28am

“The last time I checked, Islamic public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion and speech. "


Don't worry, you have the press, academia, and the ACLU on your side, you crybaby dipshit.

We Christians cannot pray in public these days.

33 Etaoin Shrdlu  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 6:58:19am
The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution

The last time I checked, US Airways was not actually an arm of the US government.

34 mich-again  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:00:45am

Keep in mind, the Imams were not forcibly removed from the airplane for praying. Thats hogwash. They were removed forcibly only after they refused police instructions to leave the airplane for questioning. This whole charade was designed to give CAIR a "Rosa Parks moment".

Note to Imams et al... If you insist on making a spectacle of yourself at an airport, then at least be smart enough to not get mouthy with the Police when they come ask you about it. Simple, huh?

35 bweep  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:01:27am

This just proves that the original incident was staged.

36 NoSubmission  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:03:11am

This is just further proof that those 6 imams staged this for sympathy. Good luck with that..

37 weirods of the world untie!  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:04:10am

#33 Etaoin Shrdlu

The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution

The last time I checked, US Airways was not actually an arm of the US government.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but...

This is where we took a wrong turn in the '60s, with MLK staging his civil disobedience in the lunch counter. Rosa Parks was completely within her rights to demand equal access to a public facility. MLK really wasn't within his rights to demand access to a private business. See the difference?

Too late now, the die is cast...

38 Solomon  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:04:41am

Please help support our petition to back immigration officials in the Massachusetts Imams case. Background and link to petition, here.

We need help. The MAS got over 1000 signatures on their petition.

39 weirods of the world untie!  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:08:21am

#34 mich-again

Keep in mind, the Imams were not forcibly removed from the airplane for praying. Thats hogwash. They were removed forcibly only after they refused police instructions to leave the airplane for questioning. This whole charade was designed to give CAIR a "Rosa Parks moment".

See #37. This at best is a "MLK moment", not "Rosa Parks moment". This is a private business. As if that matters...

40 Thin Blue Line  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:11:00am

"Islam is not a race"

41 ctrlL  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:11:03am

What's up here, Solomon ?
Has this turned into a popularity contest ?

38 Solomon

Please help support our petition to back immigration officials in the Massachusetts Imams case. Background and link to petition, here.

We need help. The MAS got over 1000 signatures on their petition.

/scary times for law enforcement

42 m  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:15:41am

#9 Beagle ~ they also leave out three of them asking for UN-NEEDED seatbelt extensions.

Any one of them should flag at least a damn double-take.

43 J.D.  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:16:34am

The Crash of EgyptAir 990

... At 1:48:30 a strange, wordlike sound was uttered, three syllables with emphasis on the second, perhaps more English than Arabic, and variously heard on the tape as "control it," "hydraulic," or something unintelligible. The NTSB ran extensive speech and sound-spectrum studies on it, and was never able to assign it conclusively to Batouti or to anyone else. But what is clear is that Batouti then softly said, "Tawakkalt ala Allah," which proved difficult to translate, and was at first rendered incorrectly, but essentially means "I rely on God." An electric seat whirred. The autopilot disengaged, and the airplane sailed on as before for another four seconds. Again Batouti said, "I rely on God." Then two things happened almost simultaneously, according to the flight-data recorder: the throttles in the cockpit moved back fast to minimum idle, and a second later, back at the tail, the airplane's massive elevators (the pitch-control surfaces) dropped to a three-degrees-down position. When the elevators drop, the tail goes up; and when the tail goes up, the nose points down. Apparently Batouti had chopped the power and pushed the control yoke forward.

The effect was dramatic. The airplane began to dive steeply, dropping its nose so quickly that the environment inside plunged to nearly zero gs, the weightless condition of space. Six times in quick succession Batouti repeated, "I rely on God." His tone was calm. There was a loud thump. As the nose continued to pitch downward, the airplane went into the negative-g range, nudging loose objects against the ceiling. The elevators moved even farther down. Batouti said, "I rely on God."

Somehow, in the midst of this, now sixteen seconds into the dive, Captain Habashi made his way back from the toilet. He yelled, "What's happening? What's happening?"

Batouti said, "I rely on God."

The wind outside was roaring. The airplane was dropping through 30,800 feet, and accelerating beyond its maximum operating speed of .86 Mach. In the cockpit the altimeters were spinning like cartoon clocks. Warning horns were sounding, warning lights were flashing—low oil pressure on the left engine, and then on the right. The master alarm went off, a loud high-to-low warble.

For the last time Batouti said, "I rely on God."...

Accident Number.: DCA00MA006

Probable Cause
The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the EgyptAir flight 990 accident is the airplane's departure from normal cruise flight and subsequent impact with the Atlantic Ocean as a result of the relief first officer's flight control inputs. The reason for the relief first officer's actions was not determined.

...10.According to the CVR transcript, "the five Arabic speaking members of the [CVR] group concur that they do not recognize this as an Arabic word, words, or phrase. The entire group agrees that three syllables are heard and the accent is on the second syllable. Four Arabic speaking group members believe that they heard words similar to 'control it.' One English speaking member believes that he heard a word similar to 'hydraulic.' The five other members believe that the word(s) were unintelligible." For additional information regarding the computer analysis of this comment, see the section titled, "Cockpit Voice Recorder."

11.This phrase (recorded on the CVR in Arabic as "Tawakkalt Ala Allah") was originally interpreted to mean "I place my fate in the hands of God." The interpretation of this Arabic statement was later amended to "I rely on God."

44 J.D.  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:17:37am

[Link: www.ntsb.gov...]

E2m
I promise I did it right. I even did it over again. Three times.
:-(

45 nonic  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:19:14am
It’s a shame that as an African-American and a Muslim I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while Black and flying while Muslim.

Yeah, that is a shame.

Another problem is that it was, has been, and continues to be MUSLIMS who have turned praying to allah while committing murder another shame.

Whether muslims like it or not, it's muslims who have turned crying "alley akbar" in public into an indicator that murder may be about to be committed.

46 m  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:20:40am

#44 J.D. ~it's the internet gremlins I tells ya!

47 Thin Blue Line  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:24:11am

The Medium voter is awaking.

48 Kirly  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:31:11am

with any luck he'll get booted off one of the flights from tucson to phoenix and on to DC. i mean, if the dumb@ss is going to behave the same way that got him booted off the other flight, maybe some other responsible and aware passengers will have the same problem. wouldn't that just be sweet if the precious imam was late for his prayin!

49 Lobosan5  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:32:32am

“The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion and speech."

wow wow wow,wait a minute...last time i checked,you couldn't even say the Name of Jesus in the public schools, & esp @ Christmas.

50 rulewriter  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:34:41am

The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution

Last time I checked, public eating of pork rinds, carnitas, and McRibs are, while not protected constitutionally, a tasty way of staging a counter-protest. Would it also be wrong of me to order a $100.00 worth of pork fried rice for delivery?

51 Thin Blue Line  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:36:24am

There is no question that Tehran is developing a nuclear weapon. There is also no doubt that the Iranians intend to use this weapon on Israel as soon as they are able. So what is Israel to do? A military strike by the IAF on Iranian nuclear facilities would achieve only a temporary tactical objective. Israel is certainly not equipped to sustain a prolonged war of attrition with Iran so its only real option is to make sure that others are dragged into the fray on its side. One way to do this would be to strike Mecca and Medina with its own nuclear warheads in the event of a strike or imminent strike on Tel Aviv. None of the super powers could in that event, remain neutral, as the entire Muslim world would be obligated to respond. The mullahs of Iran do not fear their own destruction so they will not respond to the doctrine of mutually assured destruction (MAD). Perhaps they might respond to the assured destruction of Mecca and Medina, as all manner of cosmic eschatological and dogmatic complications arise in such a scenario. If Mecca was One with the Atmosphere where would the faithful go for pilgrimage (hajj) and to which direction should they pray? How would the disruption in the script for the Day of Judgement (yom al-Qiyyam) be handled?

52 J.D.  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:39:05am

#46 m
Well it ain't like I'm a novice here.
;-)

Michelle Malkin:
A post-9/11 vocabulary test

What have you learned since the Sept. 11 attacks five years ago? The mass murder of 2,996 innocent people on American soil forced open my eyes to the Islamic holy war against the West, freedom and modernity. The battle has raged not for years or decades, but for centuries -- well before the Crusades began.

The indelible sight of workers plunging from the Twin Towers -- head first, feet first, solo, hand-in-hand -- roused me from slumber. The photos of children who were incinerated on United Airlines Flight 175 and American Airlines Flight 77 compelled me to start paying attention to the beliefs, goals, language and lies of those who would gladly kill my children the same way. The United Airlines Flight 93 hijackers' final exclamation as they drove the plane into the ground is a Muslim warrior leitmotif I will never again ignore: "Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!"

So, how much do you know? Take a post-9/11 pop quiz. It's never too late to start pulling your head from the sand: ...

53 THX-42  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:40:24am

I have a suggestion for the perfect counter-demonstration. Everyone should form a circle around these demonstrators and start singing "Hava Nagila" and dancing around them over and over, drowning out their "Allahu Akbar". Now THAT is something I'd love to join in if I were at the airport.

54 sss111  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:41:17am

Need I even write this?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Waskow received a bachelor's degree from the Johns Hopkins University (1954) and an M. A. and Ph.D. in US history. He worked from 1959 to 1961 as legislative assistant to Congressman Robert Kastenmeier of Wisconsin. [1] He was a senior staff member at the Peace Research Institute from 1961 until 1963 when he helped merge it into the Institute For Policy Studies. He joined Richard Barnet and Marcus G. Raskin the founders of the self described "radical think-tank" the Institute For Policy Studies, and rose to prominence as one of its most active leaders. [2].

In 1967 Waskow was co-author with Marcus Raskin of the anti-draft " Call to Resist Illegitimate Authority."

In 1968 he was elected an alternate delegate from the District of Columbia to the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. His delegation was pledged to support Robert Kennedy, and when Kennedy was killed, Waskow proposed and the delegation agreed to nominate Rev. Channing Phillips, chair of the delegation, for President -- the first Black person ever so nominated at a major party convention.

He was a contributing editor to the leftist periodical Ramparts Magazine, which published his Freedom (Passover) Seder in 1969. He was active in the establishment of the National Conference for New Politics. He was arrested a number of times from 1963 on for sit-ins or protests against racial segregation, investment in South African apartheid, the Vietnam war, and the Soviet Union's oppression of Jews, and later in protests against the Iraq war.

55 murray  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:44:07am
a press statement, public prayer, and flight departure on US Airways.


Despite the MSM’s assertions, public prayer is not the issue. Let them have their little media circus, I just hope the cameras are still rolling when Imam Omar Shahin tries to purchase a ticket from US Airways. After the controversy he’s caused this week, US Airways refusal to allow him on another flight would be perfectly justified...

56 sss111  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:44:26am

More on Waskow...

[Link: frontpagemag.com...]

Back in the 1960s, a series of Political Correctness Haggadahs were written, in which the message of Passover was turned into a celebration of the civil rights movement in the United States. Arthur Waskow, the guru of the Tikkun-"Renewal" crowd, wrote at the time a Black Liberation Passover Haggadah, celebrating black militants like the Black Panthers, who were themselves coincidentally calling at the time for the annihilation of Jews. Later Political Correctness Haggadahs were devoted to homosexual rights, women's liberation, and assorted other faddish causes, not least of which was Palestinian "liberation". No doubt, this year will see Abandon Iraq and Restore Saddam Haggadot or No War for Oil ones. "Multicultural" Passover seders became fashionable in some circles, in which the seder became a mixture of acclamations for human rights and freedom, taken from a wide variety of non-Jewish sources

57 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:45:26am

#53 THX-42

I have a suggestion for the perfect counter-demonstration. Everyone should form a circle around these demonstrators and start singing "Hava Nagila"

WHAT ABOUT CHANTING

LET'S ROLL
LET'S ROLL
LET'S ROLL

instead ?

58 blackpajamas  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:46:35am
The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution,

The inside of an airplane is not "public".

You don't yell fire in a crowded theater,
you don't yell Allaaah! in an airplane.

59 Charles  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:47:08am

J.D. -- the problem is caused by line feeds in the middle of your links. (I'll check into the regex code later...)

60 J.D.  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:48:40am

#59 Charles

I suspected it might be an issue with the regex feeds.

j/k

Thanks!
:D

61 TimeQuake  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:49:33am
but with an action that is insulting and demeaning to these Muslim religious leaders, and to all people of faith.

My faith says I am not allowed to commit suicide.

62 nonic  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:50:41am

#57 Poitiers-Lepanto

WHAT ABOUT CHANTING

LET'S ROLL
LET'S ROLL
LET'S ROLL

I could see the muslims claiming that was a threat and a judge agreeing.

Let's Roll is connected with a plane crashing into the ground.

I would prefer to keep THEM on the defensive.

"Alley Akbar" is, in fact, a war cry, and has been used, in fact, in the process of committing murder.

Public "alley akbars" are, in fact, a sign of potential danger.

Let them dispute that fact.

63 sss111  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:51:37am

Seriously, this is an opportune time for a counter-protest. Pics of beheadings, some of the vile anti-Semitic cartoons in trhe Arab press, lists of terrorist attacks from thereligionofpeace.com , etc...

64 nonic  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:52:20am

#61 Time Quake

My faith says I am not allowed to commit suicide.

Let me guess.

OR murder.

65 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:53:06am

[bigoted word]s.

Not people of faith as I see it.

66 grayp  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 7:58:02am
a press statement, public prayer, and flight departure on US Airways.

Oh, man would I love to find out what flight that would be.

67 realwest  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:00:35am

#51 The Thin Blue Line - Israel is certainly not equipped to sustain a prolonged war of attrition with Iran..."
Depends on what you mean by a polonged war of attrition. A ground war? You're probably correct. But the US and/or Israel is, I believe, capable of neutering Iran's military by taking out its command and control, it's anti-aircraft missle and radar sites, it's "air force", "navy" and heaping a whole lot of hurt on the Revolutionary Guards.
But I don't think Israel will have to go it alone against Iran to take out Iran's nuclear potential. I still belive the USA will be there too and while the Mullahs may have watched the shock and awe we leveled in a big way in Afgahanistan on TV, experiencing it first hand is something entirely different.
That's actually part of our dilema here; Iran hasn't been in a war since the early-mid 80's and that was against Iraq and Iran had to use thousands of children as "mine sweepers" to win that one. They seriously don't have any real clue as to how much hurt can and will be put upon them. And I think that has a LOT to do with the bluster coming out of Teheran these days.

68 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:02:56am

#59 Charles

I noticed something squirly on another thread. The preview isn't working right when there's a link. This might be related.

69 Paul  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:03:21am

The "useful idiots" will always be with us; the only change is in the oppresive and murderous ideology they support.

70 J.D.  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:06:28am

It seems to be working better.

whew!

71 sss111  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:09:32am

Don't forget to email this story to your favorite non-moonbat 9/11 survivor's groups, with a loud complaint about discrimination against Muslims who pray in airplanes.

72 TimeQuake  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:11:39am

#64 nonic

...well...really...Thou shalt not KILL but yes same difference. Hell, I don't want to go down in a plane anymore than I want my head detached from my neck.

73 adela  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:12:41am

Does anyone have a link to the Robert Spencer interview on the Michael Savage show,this wednesday,discussing the topic of the six imams ?
Looks like Robert and Savage will start a new project together,to fight "sensitivity training" imposed on US companies by the muslim 5-th column.

74 m  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:21:32am

#72 TimeQuake ~actually, in the original it is thou shalt not murder.

Sometimes you have to kill. Murder is a different story.

75 TimeQuake  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:28:09am

#74 m

Sometimes you have to kill.

And that's just as scary, cuz it's looking more and more like that is what it's about to come to.

76 abu_garcia  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:28:15am

Regarding what to chant or sing to these folks, I vote for the "Battle Hymn of the Republic".

As a matter of fact, I think we should urge every patriotic radio/TV station in the country to play it every Friday at 5:00 pm, local time until this problem is solved, however many years that takes.

No big speeches or threats, just play it respectfully and consistently, just like stations used to play the Anthem at sign-off.

77 ganzo azul  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:29:46am

It's too bad the Lactivists can't be recruited to stage a breastfeeding sit-in at the same time as this prayer protest. There's nothing like a bunch of hippie dippy women with two and three-year olds yanking on their tits to distract a group of self-righteous men from prayer.

78 Mike in Georgia  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:31:41am

#67 realwest
I think you'r right.The idiots are like a
little dog running around barking it's head off
biting at our ankles. We are going to put up with it for a while but if they happen to bite an ankle to hard and really piss us off, they will learn just how inefective their military really is. A few years ago when Kelly Johnson retired from Lockheed a reproter ask him about things we know we have and things we don't know we have. To which Johnson replied "We have things out there in the desert that are fifty years beyond your imagination." I hope he is right and when the time comes we have someone in charge who isn't afraid to use it. It could be real interesting.

79 Charles  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:34:51am

Links with linefeeds in the middle should be working now...

For example:

Here
we
are.

No, not working yet. For now, don't put linefeeds in the middle of your links.

80 Right Side  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:35:00am

#67 realwest:

They [the Iranians] seriously don't have any real clue as to how much hurt can and will be put upon them. And I think that has a LOT to do with the bluster coming out of Teheran these days.


The Iraq War should have taught us a bitter lesson: Never underestimate your enemy.

Dr. Hassan Abbasi is an Iranian political scientist, the head of the Center for Doctrinal Strategic Studies in the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, an intelligence officer, top official, and former commander for the Corps. In public speeches, he takes credit for establishing and training anti-Israel guerilla organizations such as Hezbollah.

He is also a highly educated and respected theoretician in the office of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, and an advisor to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad...

Abassi is a veteran of the Iran-Iraq war and lectures frequently at universities throughout Iran on various political topics. In one of his speeches he claimed that Iranian strategists have determined, using game theory, that economic sanctions on Iran would result in the price of oil going to $110.00 per barrel, and a military attack on Iran would result in the price of oil reaching up to $400.00 per barrel. Consequently, he argues, any talk in the West of an attack on Iran over its nuclear program is a bluff.

Iran is blustering, not because they don't know what we can do to them, but because they're confident that we wouldn't dare do it to them. They know us very well--better than we know ourselves.

Before contemplating any military attack on Iran, we had better look at the worst-case scenarios, just as Dr. Abassi is doing. Failure to do that with Iraq is how we got into that mess in the first place.

81 TimeQuake  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:36:44am

#76 abu_garcia

One of the nice things Charles did for my computer was to download Foxfire. Previous to that I was unable to access the Lizard Lounge nor the 9-11 slide show on this site. I think that is what all news broadcasts should begin with, just to keep reminding us of the horror these nuts want to inflict on us. When did our news media get hi-jacked? Who did it? How can they call themselves journalists? Before this site, I considered myself a news junkie, and come to find out I was only getting 40% of the news and then that was white-washed. What happened?

82 samhein  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:37:32am

..."I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while Black and flying while Muslim..."


And it's too bad that non muslims now worry about their safety when they encounter a muslim. But who's doing was that? Oh, right, it is our fault that we have learned to distrust muslims after all those terrorism plots. We can't possibly blame the muslims, as it against their rights and they might be offeneded.

A good example that the truth hurts!

83 sss111  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:41:53am

#81 TimeQuake


Before this site, I considered myself a news junkie, and come to find out I was only getting 40% of the news and then that was white-washed. What happened?

Leftist infiltration of what we now know as the "MSM."

Our MSM's propaganda in 2006 is worse than Pravda was in the 1950's. And is approaching that of Nazi Germany in the 1930's in intent.

84 Thin Blue Line  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 8:47:56am

#67 real west, I agree with your comments. Thought I would hit the hive with a bat to see what comes out my friend.

"Islam is not a race"

85 m  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 9:02:05am

81 TimeQuake

Before this site, I considered myself a news junkie, and come to find out I was only getting 40% of the news and then that was white-washed. What happened?

Me too. I found LGF late in 2002 and I thank the Lord every day for it. Time to hit the tip-jar again.

86 badger1970  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 9:02:28am

Double whammy he says. What a wancker! Of course there's no such thing as black bigotry at whites and muslim bigotry against Christians. /s

If he feels ever-so slighted. He can start his own muslim airline but then again, he would feel discriminated because of all the ADA batteries deployed at strategic locations. I guess he can't win. Too bad, so sad.

87 neverquit  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 9:13:53am

Praising God for political purposes.

I wonder how God feels about this?

88 reader  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 9:15:51am

Interfaith, exit all other religions, except Islam.

I've sort of resolved that no Muslim will ever lecture me about Islam, particularly when it comes to racism and oppression. The same goes for any non-Muslim, that thinks they know better than reality, then can coerce me to accept their bullshit. I'm not sure to what level or degree I'm going to take this, whether I need to stand all the way in their face. I just know in my heart and will that it ain't gonna happen, that none will get the better of me, should it come down to a debate.

I see what they are up to. They are trying to appropriate the entire African-American experience. They are using symbols, including language, so as to hide behind symbols. These are not an oppressed people. They are are not even a disciminated class, whether as a group, or in this case, as individuals. Instead of standing at the back of the proverbial line, and before that, if you want to take a historical perspective, of being so oppressed, so disenfranchised, at a time when minorities were allowed so little voice as to be rendered invisible (like many minorities in the Muslim world today), these Muslims and Muslim groups are saying we want to be at the front of the line, ahead of everyone else, and we are not going to accept, nor tolerate your ways, your laws, nor even your customs of civility. And, to throw acid in the face of truth, they are deliberately ignoring, then refusing to apologize for the many countless examples of oppression and discrimination, as well as hatespeech, that thrive under the very religion they insist is now being discriminated against in the west.

To say that this incident is representative of a pattern of discrimination of Muslims is a monumental falsehood. These are not victims. Make no mistake, these are klansman, would-be oppressors of the first order, who define themselves as see their mission, as one of dominance without compromise or concession. The word equality is as false a word as is the word "brotherhood", when it comes to Islam. The only victimhood these particularly Muslims can laughably claim would be for exposing the very fact that civility has limits, and that the road to excess oftens leads to the path of incorrigibility, for those who would be so incorrigible.

I'm just sorry there are so many people too stupid to see past this ruse. You can always count on the media to not know history, to not know real racism (that's a deadly mix). Why the rest of people might be falling for this says something terrible about the state of ignorance. Hate thrives on ignorance. We're more people real students of history, of the civil rights movement, more might have at least learned this lesson.

89 pat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 10:03:17am

“The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution"

Where has this quy been for the last 15 years?

90 Zack  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 10:39:22am

At Seatac International: Frank Meyers, American hero.

91 Catttt  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 10:49:19am

#88 reader

Well put. I'm too ticked with these men to put it into words right now, and I appreciated your doing so for me. Allow me to repeat a gem from your comment:

The only victimhood these particular Muslims can laughably claim would be for exposing the very fact that civility has limits, and that the road to excess oftens leads to the path of incorrigibility, for those who would be so incorrigible.

92 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 10:58:15am
93 Quando  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 10:59:24am

Hey guys, what's with the defeatest tone in the comments lately?

94 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:06:33am

#88 reader

I see what they are up to. They are trying to appropriate the entire African-American experience. They are using symbols, including language, so as to hide behind symbols. These are not an oppressed people. They are are not even a disciminated class, whether as a group, or in this case, as individuals.

This is a well-beaten path. The exact same thing could be said about the gay activists. They're not economically disadvantaged, but it didn't stop them from hitching a ride on the bus that the Blacks worked to get to the front of.

The muslims are political scavangers. Using the work of everyone from the Bolsheviks to the Civil Rights activists to get what they want.

95 Catttt  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:07:12am

#93 Quando

Do you have some examples? I don't see a lot of that. I see a lot of inquiring minds. The canary in the coal mine is chirping loudly. Some of the coal miners are starting to listen.

96 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:07:49am

#93 Quando

That might have something to do with the elections, but it might also have to do with the anti-defeatists all getting banned.

97 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:08:25am

#95 Cattt

Right Side, for one...

98 mrdriven  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:12:04am

get the ATF, FBI, DEA and the K-9 attack dogs patrolling the scene...

make the mooslim troublemakers KNOW THAT WE KNOW THEY ARE THE ENEMY!

and of course bring plenty of bacon...

99 Catttt  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:13:20am

96 Earth2moonbat

The "anti-defeatests"? LOL. I'd call them the "piss on your livingroom floor and dare you to clean it upists."

100 Catttt  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:14:59am

97 Earth2moonbat

Oh, right you are (no pun intended). Chicken little syndrome. That's just not an option, as far as I'm concerned.

101 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:15:47am

#99 Cattt

You have to admit, it's not as...colorful...as it used to be.

102 Catttt  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:19:30am
101 Earth2moonbat 11/25/2006 01:15PM PST

#99 Cattt

You have to admit, it's not as...colorful...as it used to be.

Heh.

Hey - there's still us. We're colorful! :)

103 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:21:37am
104 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:22:54am

#102 Cattt

Maybe, but there's something about the way a certain ex-lizard who started with "R", would thrash trolls like a husky who caught a rabbit...

105 Atman  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:25:29am

#97 Earth2moonbat

Right Side, for one...

I feel that Right Side is, er, Right.

We jumped into the ME without knowing the enemy, the tribal society and the Muslim religion. Not to mention the desire of OBL to draw us into a battle and destroy our will to do battle.

106 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:31:43am

#105 Atman

Therefore the sky is falling, and we should all head for the hills. Go ahead. Head for the hills.

107 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:34:38am
108 So?  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:38:33am

I say call in all the Hari Krishnas and have them sing up a storm—drums, bells and all.

At least their religion is one of peace.

109 Atman  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:40:10am

#106 Earth2moonbat

No, no not at all. We fight until we defeat this enemy. We just need to know beforehand who the enemy is. War101.

110 solomonpanting  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:41:08am

#7 BulgarWheat

Maybe the imam can take the train...

Throw imama from the train.

111 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:42:27am
112 EIDE_Interface  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:43:10am

Yeah let them try that shit in an airport. Last I checked, there are no freedoms anymore in there.

113 Thor-Zone  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:46:06am
"The last time I checked, public prayer was still protected by the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion and speech.

The constitution does not require me or anyone else to put up with your crap. Your religion started this crap...if you don't like it get the hell out of the country! There are a lot of Americans that are beginning to get tired of your religous zeal.

There is no need for you to prey at the airport. Do it in your home, your mosque or your outhouse...I don't care. The airport is no place for you to act this way.

114 Catttt  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:48:52am

104 Earth2moonbat

Heh. But I tend to look away when I see a shark rolling a seal. :)

115 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:49:01am

The NAACP wants some Saudi money too! Who cares if the Sauds really think blacks are only good for being slaves...gobble up those petrodollars NAACP! "Reverand" Jackson showed you the way!

116 EIDE_Interface  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:49:28am

Throw the imamms out of the airplane. At 30K feet. Dat wud be fUn.

117 So?  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:50:08am

Imams of the world, if you think Allah is pleased with you, you have a big surprise coming the moment your last breath here on Earth has been drawn. This is Paradise and you have desecrated it with your lust for blood, lies and murder.

118 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:50:20am

113 Thor-Zone

There is no need for you to prey at the airport.

Great typo :-)

119 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:53:59am

111 Iron Fist It does upset me to see a formerly decent organization (NAACP) align itself with the Islamic enemy. The ignorance of muslim history vis a vis blacks is incredible. I can only hope behavior like this gets more Christian blacks to distance themselves from a group that is so anxious to get whitey and bring down capitalism that they would embrace slavers to do it.

120 EIDE_Interface  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 11:57:29am

We need Imam pest control!

121 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:01:25pm

#107 Killian Bundy

They're just going for the soft targets. They know that they won't hassle them in Seattle.

122 solomonpanting  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:04:44pm

#120 EIDE_Interface

We need Imam pest control!

Now you're talking pesticide.

123 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:09:15pm
124 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:14:07pm
125 Atman  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:14:39pm

#2 Sees it for what it is.

All they are doing is probing, pushing, and testing us and our system. A fifth column that should be recognized as such and dealt with.

126 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:20:12pm

123 iron fist Yep.

127 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:20:52pm

123 IF again. voluntary human NAACP shields?

128 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:23:49pm
129 Atman  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:40:30pm
130 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:46:09pm

#124 savage_nation

Heh! Do they not know I am on my way to Seattle at this very moment?

If you're going inside the city limits, better get your tinfoil-lined moonbat beanie. The cops will bust you for not having one.

/Seriously, Washington State law requires all cars to have trash receptacles. You can get a fine if they pull you over, and you don't have one. You're headed for the land of the totalitarians, complete with a 15' statue of Lenin.

131 FLLaw33870  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:56:20pm

I wish US Airways would deny them airline tickets! That would be a hoot!1

132 solomonpanting  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 12:56:28pm

#130 Earth2moonbat

/Seriously, Washington State law requires all cars to have trash receptacles. You can get a fine if they pull you over, and you don't have one.

Is that a joke?

133 seejanemom  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 1:07:26pm

It begins.

Jesse Jackson Playbook Shakedown #78 brought straight to you by KEEEIth EEeeellison...yes, lawd, can we have a round for brotha' Keith?

134 seejanemom  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 1:08:51pm

Stuff their happy asses in the overhead compartment already...geez louise.

135 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 1:19:28pm

132 solomonpanting

That is not a joke.

136 solomonpanting  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 1:26:55pm

135 Earth2moonbat

Does the law specify the size, location or any other parameters of said receptacle? IOW, can you merely have any bag in your vehicle, or does it have to be WSGA*?

*Washinton State Gestapo Government Approved

137 Carolyn  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 1:30:04pm

I'd pay for the flight if it could be diverted to KSA, and dump those #@&% out.

138 seejanemom  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 1:49:26pm

That's nice...a BIG 'ol round...thats it. THANK YOU MR.ELLISON...thank you...

139 FLLaw33870  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 1:58:33pm

#132 - #130 is correct, in part:

It's true for Seattle!

However, the state law appears to have been repealed, i.e. RCW 70.93.100, in 2003.

[Link: apps.leg.wa.gov...]

Chapter 70.93 RCW Dispositions
Waste reduction, recycling, and model litter control act

Sections
70.93.100 Litter bags — Design and distribution by department authorized — Violations — Penalties.

[1981 c 260 § 15. Prior: 1979 c 158 § 219; 1979 c 94 § 6; 1971 ex.s. c 307 § 10.]
Repealed by 2003 c 337 § 7.

---End of State law section


Seattle Municipal Code
Information retrieved November 25, 2006 3:33 PM
Title 11 - VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
Subtitle I Traffic Code
Part 8 Equipment Regulations
Chapter 11.84 - Brakes and Miscellaneous Equipment


---

SMC 11.84.420 Use of litter receptacle.

No registered owner of any vehicle shall fail to keep available for use a litter receptacle in his vehicle. (RCW 70.93.100)

(Ord. 108200 Section 2(11.84.420), 1979.)

[Link: clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us...]

140 wanumba  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 3:04:22pm
#2 Jammie ...
The distinguished scent of a scam in action.

sums up a lot of posts.

Question: Why is it so compelling for radical agenda-groups to want to hijack the African-American Civil Rights struggle? Rosa Parks's name has already been thrown in the fray, by a useful idiot, now the NAACP is diving in. They'd better watch out, the water's pretty shallow and the rocks are sharp. Rosa Parks was tossed off a bus for sitting quietly and minding her own business ... that wasn't enough to trump her black skin. These "imams" were behaving badly, now they want us to put them in the same category as a hard-working, unassuming lady? Phef.

141 Areopagitica  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 3:13:47pm

Public Prayer protected by the Consitiution...Hmmm...Since these front groups obviously love the U.S. so much, I'm guessing they've never heard of the constitutional doctrine of "times, places,& manner." But hey, why should we be afraid of people hanging out at airports who have openly supported and advanced terrorist activities, both directly and indirectly, and whose followers took control of four planes back in 2001 and killed several thousand people.

Hey CAIR, MAS, imams, your table is ready.

142 DANEgerus  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 3:32:13pm

Isn't it ironic that the NAACP, that indulges in labeling (R)epublicans "the Taliban", is now allied with the Taliban?

143 mattm  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 3:35:22pm
"...It’s a shame that as an African-American and a Muslim I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while Black and flying while Muslim. We charge the airline with not only discrimination, but with an action that is insulting and demeaning to these Muslim religious leaders, and to all people of faith.”

It would be nice if NAACP, the Rev. Jackson, etc, actually cared about civil liberties. In their wold slavery in the US still is going ohn down south. To the "leaders" involved F*** you. If you had walked off the plane when asked, none of this would have happened. Insted you made a incident out of it. If they are allowd to fly again, which I hope they don't, they should have armed police officers at they gate they leave at and then have th cops walk up dna down the plane before takeoff. Some F-16's along side the flight should be nice also.

144 tradewind  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 4:04:37pm

#140,
Fits the Islamic M/O perfectly... ' use the freedoms and customs of the Infidels against them'.
They've done it before, and they'll do it again.

145 tradewind  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 4:06:20pm

#141,

Filling the space left by the hare krishnas.

146 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 4:27:28pm
147 GuyInCT  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 5:59:01pm

Real Americans will simply stop flying. Let the airlines survive with the CAIR crowd.

148 gunjam  Sat, Nov 25, 2006 10:31:48pm
will join Imam Mahdi Bray, executive director of the MAS Freedom Foundation, Rabbi Arthur Waskow of the Shalom Center of Philadelphia, Rev Graylan Hagler of the United Church of Christ, Hillary Shelton, director of the NAACP-Washington National Office, and other interfaith members for a press statement, public prayer, and flight departure on US Airways.

Really: As a Christian, I get more irritated by few things as much as i do by theologically incompetent "Christian" ministers who do not know enough to realize that there are few things more degrading to a minister than "joining" with a Muslim in prayer.

These black ministers are too often given a free pass ("po' black ministers don't know no bettah"), but this takes the cake...

Come on, guys, do you not even know that the two religions -- Islam and Christianity -- worship TWO DIFERENT deities?

If you don't know this, then, perhaps you should resign you pulpits and consider selling life insurance.

--gunjam

149 Quando  Sun, Nov 26, 2006 10:46:20am
Islam and Christianity -- worship TWO DIFERENT deities?

No, they don't. It's the same deity.
It's important to point this out, as knowing one's enemy takes precedence over demonizing him, even if the latter is more satisfying.

150 Yank in the EU  Mon, Nov 27, 2006 4:37:13am

#149 Quando

Yes, they do; they are fundamentally different gods. Pope Benedict XVI's controversial speech was about exactly this topic. The god of the Qur'an calls for non-believers to be given three options: conversion, subjugation or death (9:29). The god of the Qur'an, at a time when Mohammed is performing military operations on the battlefield, is said to have abrogated earlier commandments and to have issued new orders which are to Mohammed's direct benefit, such as being able to rape the women and plunder conquered cities. This idea of god is beyond reason, so absolutely transcendent that he can change principles that he made and he can even contradict the basic laws of morality, such as in the case of forced conversions or mass murder of non-believers. Allah is a god of violent victory over all other systems of faith and ideas on the planet. This tyrannical and totalitarian idea of God, which transcends even reason itself and whose commands permit no rational discourse, is clearly contradictory to the God of the Judeo-Christian tradition. There are a number of key, essential differences.

151 TS  Mon, Nov 27, 2006 5:05:15pm

US Airways: Problem Was Not That Imams Were Praying
[Link: www.620ktar.com...]

152 Quando  Mon, Nov 27, 2006 6:13:53pm

#150 Yank in the EU

Well I was speaking of the diety to which the believers of both religions refer, not to how their respective scriptures/traditions engage that diety.

The arguments you've made about the God of the Quran could easily be made -and have been made, by Bible scholars- about the God of the Old Testament.

153 Yank in the EU  Mon, Nov 27, 2006 6:42:38pm

#152 Quando

Well, the question is: if you are hypothetically praying to a God to do evil things or who is a principle of death and domination, not freedom and dignity for mankind, are you praying to the one God? I really don't think so. I think this is an anthropomorphized idol of warfare and power.

About the Old Testament, I strongly disagree. I know what is in Joshua and Kings, for example, and how God waged wars for Israel. But no principles are extolled that this religion must be radically intolerant towards the non-believer. The Jews have anything but a subjugation agenda towards Gentiles. The Judeo-Christian system forwards fundamentally a principle of life, and Islam that of warfare, domination and death. They are essentially different. Now can the Judeo-Christian texts be used to support violence? Yes, of course, but that wasn't the question: we were talking about basic principles and tenets.

You most definately cannot find the following principles in the Old Testament that you find in the Qur'an: offensive warfare to subjugate humanity into a totalitarian system and giving the three choices I mentioned, that God transcends even the basic principles of reason and morality, racism, forced conversion, the penalty of death for leaving the faith, the literal justification of lying if it is to the advantage of Islam.


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