I only hope for Israel sake that the muslim countries don't have nukes.

Let them be right just one time.

Publishing secret plans = proof the west doesn't have what it takes anymore.

This reminds me of the months Saddam had to prepare for the US invasion. What if they use this info to delay and move the shizit?

Modern communications has its ups and downs...

Hence the 2 Aircraft Carriers to the region?

I should hope that that U.S. has similar plans drawn.

I can just hear the LLL now...crowing away...still believing that a single nuke will plunge us into "nuclear winter."

/as if the two nukes in japan didn't disprove that already...

I only hope for Israel sake that the muslim countries don't have nukes.

Looks like it's too late for that.

Just b/c they draw up plans doesn't mean they'll use them. I cant see israel using nukes to hit iran unless it's back is slammed against the wall.

If it's true, then good for Israel. We don't seem to have the gumption for decisive action anymore. Somebody is going to have to do something about Iran.

Oh, dear God.

It's time for the US and Israel to deal the Iranian IslamoNazis a major blow. We have quietly endured years of their religion-of-mass-murder threats.

It's time to show the Mohammed-worshipping scum who is boss.

Governments have all sorts of 'plans' for all sorts of things. The idea that Israel has 'plans' for this contingency isn't exactly shocking.

My guess is Israel is showing the world that two can play the saber rattling game. But the idea that they are going to be the first to use nuclear weapons is absurd.

Anyone really believe Olmert has the stones for that one?

*YAWN*
Another hyped non-story from the media industrial complex.

Of course Israel has plans for this kind of operation, and probably for a lot of other scenarios. It is almost a dead certainty that the US; and Britain, for that matter; have similar ones. There would be no point in having the weapons if they didn't. This is not the same as intent, let alone a political decision to implement the plan.

The sooner, the better.

Yeah, I have plans for boning Adriana Lima.

Somewhere in our vaults are war plans for nuking Grenada... so whats the big deal.

DO IT! Nuke the bastards and they WILL back off. That's probably the only thing that will work. Just make sure Kofi and the gang are in Tehran when it happens.

i've heard a limited nuclear exchange would have a cooling effect on global warming.

:-

Why would a "tactical nuclear strike" be necessary?

The Heyl ha'Avir took out Saddam's Osirak nuclear facility with a conventional airstrike. And I'm sure the Israelis have conventional HE deep-penetrator "bunker-busters" to deal with underground and/or hardened targets.

I'd want to see where they sourced this. It sounds like something the BBC or Guardian (ex-Daily Worker) would come up with to drum up some more anti-Israel hysteria.

Not that they ever have to try very hard, that is.

cheers

eon

Well, I guess it's a good thing that most Muslims are illiterate..

But the Times has been wrong before with “secret Israeli plan” stories.

For real? Because I nearly had a heart attack reading Drudge's headline. I'm about to try to sleep now too ...

I hope that it's more than a contingency plan. That kind of plan is for a return strike. Israel needs to strike first and apologize to the UN later.

#16

Yeah. The Pentagon probably has a contingency plan for everything. I wonder what the wackiest ones are...we'll never know.

beat that will drive up oil prices. Doh!

And damn, Pat Robertson might be right, LOL...chuckle, chuckle... Maybe he planted this story...

I'd sit on this one, and file it away in the archives of MSM fantasy. It's generally accepted that Israel has the capability, but if the London Times is privy to what the Israelis plan to do next, that warhead will never see the light of day. I (of course) could be wrong, and if I am the government of Israel has a "leak problem" that dwarfs anything we've witnessed here, and completely compromises their entire national security.

I surprised that all you Lizards here at LGF don't see this for what it is: a ruse to get the Iranians to move the gas so it will be an easier target.

~Norsk Troll

Long live Israel. Death to tyranny, fascism and Muhammed (Please Beat Until Hamburger).

I only hope for Israel sake that the muslim countries don't have nukes.

If they did they'd have used them already.

Psst...

Hey Times...

How about blowing some cover on some secret Iran plans sometime? Or Al Qaeda?

#19

Because conventional weapons likely cannot reach, or sufficiently bury, the underground facilities they likely have. Remember that the other today they bragged about the uniqueness of their tunnel system. Something tells me it isn't that unique, but all the same it might take a tactical nuke to get at it.

Personally, I support the use of tactical nuclear weapons against Iran even if it isn't necessary to shut down their nuke program.

After five years of bending over for Muslims subverting Western civilization, we need to show these Mohammed-worshipping. 7th century scum that we have the will to grind them into dust.

Hey Dinnerjacket --

Can you feel it?

Got Global Warming?

Nuclear Winter is the cure!

/preparing marshmellows to toast.

I imagine the plans involve something like this. The strike would be "nuking" Iran in the way that Flava Flav is a celebrity.

#5 Blackacre
Most counties with militaries draw these types of plans. IIRC, the pentagon reviews war plans annually for the top 20 trouble spots. Other scenarios are reviewed less frequently. Somewhere in the pentagon are warplans for the US to invade Canada and New Zealand.

I only hope for Israel sake that the muslim countries don't have nukes.

Besides which, Samson Option.

Says Douglas Davis,

In addition to Iran’s indigenous nuclear programme, there have been reports that it has bought several nuclear bombs ‘off the shelf’ from rogue scientists in the former Soviet Union. So, for all the fuss about its nuclear programme, Iran might already have several tactical nuclear weapons stuffed in its armoury.

If Israel is drawn into a pre-emptive strike, the Iranians might reckon that the international community will judge an Iranian nuclear response to be proportionate, even justifiable. With their political compass fixed at the dangerous intersection of ideological fervour and religious zealotry, the mullahs of Tehran could be calculating that such an outcome will succeed in both burnishing their Islamic credentials and realising their cosmic dream of dominance.

Via Wizbang, the Spectator reports:

Within the next 12 months, the Americans or the Israelis, possibly both, are likely to launch military strikes aimed at crippling Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Those strikes may come sooner rather than later. And they will probably be nuclear.

They may have plans but I doubt they'll do it.

I've got the stomach for it...

...do the Iranians?

~Norsk Troll

There is no doubt Israel has "contingency plans" for taking out Iran's nuclear facilities. I'm sure Israel has plans for taking out France's and Pakistan's nuclear facilities also.

Any newspaper in the world could run that headline at any time and be correct. So the question becomes "why would the Sunday Times" run that particular story?

Yep, you guessed it...The Sunday Times has an anti-Israeli agenda.

Shocka!

#26 EtNorskTroll

Muhammed (Please Beat Until Hamburger).

Did you just make that up?

'Cause I like that.

I've got the stomach for it...

...do the Iranians?

Do you live in Israel?

Bunker busters cannot penetrate hundreds of feet of rock. I wonder whether a tactical nuke could do it either...

I think a better plan would be some sort of special forces team inserted via long distance gliders, who take the facility and then blow it up from within. But that would take more tech and more intel than we probably have. ALthough who knows...maybe we have gotten spies deep into the facilities. The CIA, Mossad, MI5, etc. are pretty good at what they do.

#19 eon

I'd want to see where they sourced this. It sounds like something the BBC or Guardian (ex-Daily Worker) would come up with to drum up some more anti-Israel hysteria.

Whether it's true or not, I think you're right about the motives for publication of such a headline...they're really testing the peoples. I think there are plenty of disgruntled Brits who just don't think their govt has the batsim...and (why do they have to count on Bush to take care of the problem)?

#26 EtNorskTroll
Thanks for an intelligent comment amidst the "Nook'em".

Yeh, it is about time! HOWEVER, if the media is wrong it could spark a nuclear war. It might give Iran a good reason to strike. But, wait, it might mess up Iran's timing bringing in the 12th Imam!

Expect to be underwhelmed when the story actually comes out.

This type of behavior is absolutely normal SOP for nuclear nations facing warfare. People have forgotten the Cold War for the most part. If you don't knock it out completely it will kill you. If you don't use it, you lose it. Nuclear weapons ratchet up tensions and mistrust on both sides, bringing readiness and war planning to heightened states. Which in the case of Iran and Israel (facing annihilation) means the Israelis must plan for every contingency. The obvious contingency is Iran beginning industrial-scale production of nuclear weapons, the Iranian plan obviously.

Israel supposedly follows a no-first-use principle. But they'd be crazy to follow that blindly in the case of Iran and Mahmoud "Makin' Chaos - Glowing Aura" Ahwannajihad.

Slightly OT (or maybe not)

Go to RealClearPolitics Friday morning page, and check out this one;

The Iranian who wants an apocalypse
by Michael Burleigh

It's worth reading, not so much for his points (as sapient as they are), but for the reactions of most of the responding commentors. A couple approach heights of moonbattery rarely seen even in Madam Speaker Nancy's home turf.

And PS- Yes, the post from "eon" was me. (shameless plug)

cheers

eon

Sounds to me like the MSM trying to garner support for Iran getting nukes.

It's the ol' "Of course Iran should have them. Look at Israel threatening them. It's only fair."

#40 sailordude

Exactly spot on.

#44 Dr, Manhattan:

Bunker busters cannot penetrate hundreds of feet of rock. I wonder whether a tactical nuke could do it either...

There's no real need to destroy the facilities themselves. That's the nice thing about underground complexes. All you really have to do is destroy the entrances/ventilation shafts.

Well, that's good news!

And here's more good news: The U.S. Navy is busily sending carrier battle groups to the Persian Gulf. The purpose is obvious: Deter and if necessary, repel, any retaliatory attacks by Iran on supertankers or oil infrastructure in the Persian Gulf and Strait of Hormuz.

The tone of the Saudi news media has notably sharpened toward Iran in recent weeks--they're now calling Iran a worse problem than Israel-Palestine, which is a BIG change for them.

We may be seeing something truly amazing taking shape here: an alliance between America, Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iran. If so, this is a confirmation that my suggested "divide and conquer" approach against radical Islam is the right idea: What we need is not so much to spread democracy in Saudi Arabia and Iraq, but to nudge them to oppose Iran.

I hope so too. It's one of those things that needs to be done on time, and not too late.

Blog Reaction Roundup...developing...

a nuclear bunker buster would do more than one assumes

it would first, penetrate deep underground as a second wave, so to speak, after conventional bunker busters "softened up" the ground and then be a follow on

not necessarily blowing up the caverns, per-se but think of a big earthquake

yes, it would shake them to pieces even if they could not reach them

and also, an added bonus would be very little comparitively speaking, of the fallout would reach the atmosphere

#53: lobo91

A painful backlash for the Iranians would be the destruction of the centrifuges extracting nuclear tissue. These are very very sensitive technical devices... enough said.

lobo91 1/6/2007 03:11PM PST

Well, I guess it's a good thing that most Muslims are illiterate..

I wish they COULD read. Then, we could work on getting them some rights on WHAT they read. The ME regimes prefer to keep them the way they are so as not to demand some rights and to know what the &%@* is happening with all of "their" oil money!

#44 Dr. Manhattan

Bunker busters cannot penetrate hundreds of feet of rock. I wonder whether a tactical nuke could do it either...

Sure they can, multiple strikes, one shovelfull at a time.

/and then there's space based kinetic weapons

#58 hans ze beeman

These are very very sensitive technical devices... enough said.

Which is why I always thought that flooding the bunkers would be nice. Especially with sulfuric acid.

53 lobo91

spot on old bean !

good call

now, let me be the first to second the nomination for Israel to get on with it

and as a side order
can we throw jon carry down the shaft first ?

As many have noted, this is not news in any meaningful sense. No news may not be good news, but it can still sell papers and incite the dhimmi fifth column to ramp up its support for the mullahs.
Now, if Israel had a plan for nuking the Times, that might be real news.

If it's true, I can't blame them, but I fear the fallout (no pun intended). Of course it's the fault of the U.N. and all of our alleged allies for fucking us and Israel in the ass. If they had any balls or back bone the world could have put a stop to this. Lovely friggin world.

Killgore Trout (#34): Precisely.

And with our new leadership in Washington, I'm pretty sure the US will sell Israel out on this one too. God help us all.

#62: Earth2Moonbat

Using weapons with enough firepower to produce a nice earthquake would suffice to brak their nuclear chain for years. Except, of course, that they already have acquired nuclear weapons, see my post #36. Then, an Israeli attack would have been anticipated.

#15 Beagle:

Yeah, I have plans for boning Adriana Lima.

Yeah, but now that they're no longer secret, Adriana can develop a defensive strategy to resist your wily charms.

There's still time to get a bet down at 6:1.

#53 lobo91

There's no real need to destroy the facilities themselves. That's the nice thing about underground complexes. All you really have to do is destroy the entrances/ventilation shafts.

"They gotta breathe don't they?"

/Maj. John Reisman, The Dirty Dozen

dirty bomb their facilities and contaminate the entire site for years...They could work around it ... but it would be a HUGE pain in the ass...

With regards to Iranian retaliation, am I just out of touch or misinformed? Last I heard, they don't have a delivery system to send a nuclear postcard.

ziggy

give George W some blame too
he could stand up and tell the US and the world any time he wants to call a press conference or Oval Office chat and tell people what is really going on and what our intelligence people see and think

for f*ck sakes, with the nazicrats coming to power on sensitive comittees, they're going to leak it all in such a way as to be advantageous to them only and screw POTUS

just like when they outed the Greenbrier and FLETC amoing other things

he ought to use the knowledge he has to our common advantage and survival and stand down the nazicrats before they can do more harm

#59 Iron Fist

My father taught me something that I have passed on to all of my children.

NOBODY GETS A FREE HIT.

If you hit someone, expect to be hit back in return. Since that's the case, you might as well just keep hitting them until their ability to strike back no longer exists.

Wise man, my father.

#64 Shiplord Kirel

As many have noted, this is not news in any meaningful sense.

Not only that, there's no known nuclear bunker buster in existence. This is a little suspect on that basis alone. Unless you can put a nuke warhead in a deep penetrating missile, it's not that useful against a deep bunker. And it's far from obvious that they know how to make a nuke warhead survive those g-forces.

I'm betting that this is one of those Jamil Hussein "anonymous source" kinds of stories. Either that, or the Israelis are playing psyops.

#73 Cartman

It's not that far from Iran to Israel... I'm sure if they had the functioning nukes to pull it off, there'd be plenty of entities lined up to supply them with a viable means of delivery under the table. Just my guess though...

The UN's inaction, as well as the rest of the civilized world might just cause a world-wide eruption of radioactivitiy. Maybe it is needed medicine.

Little Israel has done everything she could to appease and make peace with these Muslim monsters. With her back pushed against the sea, perhaps she will find the fortitude to defend her borders and her children. With Olmert who knows?

If it comes down to it, we know the US hasn't the will or moral compass to defend Israel. While I still have hopes that corrupt world powers will curtail Iran's nuke program-if worse comes to worse, I pray Israel will protect herself. If a little fall-out radiation falls upon Russia, China and the EU...well what is the saying...? When you make an omelette you have to break some eggs.

Maybe the realization of a nuclear exchange will be the catalyst the world needs to stomp on Irans throat.
I doubt it.

Adrenalyn #74... That would be a refreshing turn of events... Just say it like it is and watch the Dems try and spinn the truth... That would (almost) be worth reading the MSM again.! LOVE IT!

The real target would be the brain trust. Blow the facilities and you set them back 5 years or so. Go after the brains and you set it back a generation.

Totalitarain regimes tend to not trust its people so such people would must likely be centrally located and soft targets relative to facilities.

However are we will to see the images of dead children being dug out of the rubble? After all the brains will have families and to get them you'd have to strike not while at work but at home in the soft target.

To get 20 "brain" targets your going to have 80-100 collateral kills.

Do we have the cajones?

#73 Cartman

With regards to Iranian retaliation, am I just out of touch or misinformed? Last I heard, they don't have a delivery system to send a nuclear postcard.

I wouldn't completely bank on that. If they sent a sub full of shihads into Tel Aviv, it may or may not be detected.

And During the 1930's the US Navy had war plans in case of a war between the US and UK. I'd be MORE worried if they didn't have plans.

-S-

#69 rabidsquirrel

Yeah, but now that they're no longer secret, Adriana can develop a defensive strategy to resist your wily charms.

Such plans among hetero men could hardly be considered "secret" in any case. Her present plan leaves her invulnerable anyway.

/but I'll keep planning, just in case ;D

Iran's plan for destroying Israel, pre-fission bomb, came out about a year ago. It involves terrorist dirty bombs/chem weapons and radioactive payloads on Shahab-3's. Which they've proven they can ripple fire in huge quantities. That missile test showed their plan for avoiding any BMD.

#80 savage_nation

He's talking Israel. I don't think they could get one in there. They open them all up and look.

I have no doubt in my mind that tomorrow, The Times will print a report about Israel's secret plan to destroy England by using their Jew claws.

I am getting a sense that the Times (and most other media) has sided with the Arab Muslims and with the Left wingers to take Israel out.

Over my dead body.

#44

How about an army of Snake Pliskens!

#61 Killian Bundy

Thanks for the link.

The whole "Rods From G-d" thing kept coming up on StrategyPage a couple of years ago. The consensus from experts was that;

1. Ablation would probably burn up such projectiles before impact, or at least distort them enough to deprive them of the pinpoint accuracy that such a package demands to be effective.

2. The expense of the support systems of an orbital "rifle" like that would be a few orders of magnitude higher than the ISS.

3. And ultimately, it would be simpler and cheaper (not to mention more flexible) to deliver such weapons by Fractional Orbit Bombardment (FOBS), launched from a land base or, for that matter, a Fleet Ballistic Missile submarine. Either system could deliver such a "physics package" with the same or greater accuracy, equal kinetic energy at impact, less tendency for them to be "burnt up" enroute (enclose them in a standard RV until mid/high altitude release), and would be much less of a pain in the fundament to operate and maintain. (Not to mention being a lot easier to conceal, overall.)

As for the "suborbital bomber", that's basically a retread of Dr. Eugen Sanger's "Antipodal Bomber" proposal from World War Two. Overall, it's less flexible, more expensive, and generally less effective than a plain old ICBM.

What really worries me is that the guy who wrote this is apparently teaching budding U.S. Navy officers. Now that's a scary thought.

cheers

eon

#38 GreenSoccer 1/6/2007 03:16PM PST

They may have plans but I doubt they'll do it.

Yeah.

That's what they said about Hitler invading Poland, Green.

First they tell you what they're going to do.
Then they do what they said they were going to do.
Then they crow about doing what they did.

Same plan every Century.

Just different people.

~Norsk Troll

OT: What a Burqa is good for

A woman robbed a Center City bank yesterday and fled with an undisclosed amount of cash, police said. The robber, dressed in Muslim clothing and wearing a pair of silver eyeglasses, walked into the Wachovia Bank branch at Broad and Walnut Streets about 2:10 p.m. and gave a teller a demand note, police said. The robber escaped after receiving the cash, police said.

I suppose I stand corrected on Iran's capabilities to deliver a nuclear strike. Guess I'll head back to the Lizard Lounge, where my ignorance is tolerated. ;-P

#42 Rain Patriot 1/6/2007 03:16PM PST

#26 EtNorskTroll

Muhammed (Please Beat Until Hamburger).

Did you just make that up?

'Cause I like that.

Yep! That one's of my own invention. They come real easy to me while I'm reading the Islamic Holy Writings that tell of how 51-year old Muhammed (Pig's Blood Upon Him) married a 6-year old girl and then had sex with her when she was 9...and how 'allah' says that he is the "Perfect Man" & "a timeless example for all ages" and all men should emulate him and his conduct.

Yeah. Suuurrre, allah.

Sure he is.

*spit*

~Norsk Troll

Maybe the Israelis have a "secret plan" to Jew their way into the economies of the world and get rich!

Maybe they have a "secret plan" to destroy the Times building in London?

Why is the Times keeping this a secret?

#36

If the Iranians really do have some purchased nukes, it's even more (not less) imperative that someone strike them ASAP. Reason? It would imply strongly that they are furiously working at developing many more (and bigger) nukes sufficient to render a FATAL blow to both the US and Israel.

The fallacy I see on nearly every blog is that everyone assumes that Iran will one day do a "demo nuke strike" on one of our major cities (say, NY or DC). The thinking goes that this would be non-fatal, and that we would then have the moral justification to annihilate them in a retaliatory strike.

But what if they are actually going for a total knockout, such as embedded nukes in our top 20 cities, in a single coordinated attack? Not only would the majority of our population by killed, but so would most of our industrial capacity, financial institutions, food production and distribution, etc.

Why are we willing to sit patiently and wait for such a strike? Knock them out NOW.

The US has contingency plans for all sorts of unlikely scenarios. I trust Israel has similar, if more regional plans. So what is the Times point ?

#93 hans ze beeman

I predicted that. I predicted that. I predicted that. I predicted that...

#84 Dr. Shalit:

And During the 1930's the US Navy had war plans in case of a war between the US and UK. I'd be MORE worried if they didn't have plans.

The scariest war plan I ever read was the complete version of OPLAN 4102, the Single Integrated Operation Plan (SIOP) for the defense of Western Europe against Soviet invasion. I had a copy in one of the safes in my office in the mid-80s.

I'm pretty sure it's still classified Top Secret, so I won't go into detail, but a key feature was something known as a "nuclear pulse" along the Inter-German Frontier (the border between East and West Germany).

The old Vietnam quote about "destroying the village in order to save it" came to mind every time I looked at that document.

I have always wondered what military objective would be accomplished by noookiiinnn meca.

Seems to me that type of strike would be analogous to Doolittle's raid on Tokyo. Purely psychological.

I would think if you wanted to strike a death blow against "Islam"...just outlaw it in the western world and send em all home.

Then institute a containment policy a la the Truman Doctrine and wait for Islam to implode.

#89 eon

ultimately, it would be simpler and cheaper (not to mention more flexible) to deliver such weapons by Fractional Orbit Bombardment (FOBS), launched from a land base or, for that matter, a Fleet Ballistic Missile submarine. Either system could deliver such a "physics package" with the same or greater accuracy, equal kinetic energy

Do we have it?

/IIRC, the last Black program to be acknowledged was the B-2 and that's '80s technology

Right Side:

The U.S. Navy is busily sending carrier battle groups to the Persian Gulf. ... The tone of the Saudi news media has notably sharpened toward Iran in recent weeks--they're now calling Iran a worse problem than Israel-Palestine, which is a BIG change for them. We may be seeing something truly amazing taking shape here: an alliance between America, Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iran.

Everything sounds wonderful except for the leadership of Israel and the US--two weaklings who have blanched at the prospect of shedding their enemies blood. Political will counts for a lot, and we're lacking it sorely in both countries.

Of course, if we don't move first, Iran will force the issue of war upon us on their terms and their timetable.

I'm of several minds on this:

1. Since I question the mainstream media on most everything, I don't necessarily trust this piece of British reporting.

2. I agree with those who say it's a matter of course that Israel would have a plan on how to deal with Iran.

3. Somebody will eventually have to deal with Iran, and it will either be the US or Israel.

4. Sometimes I'm glad for my slightly paranoid passion for preparedness. I couple of months of food, water, etc., is not a bad idea during weird times like this...

# 97 THX-42

We all know that isn't going to happen, so do you have any other ideas ?

#54 Right Side

"... If so, this is a confirmation that my suggested "divide and conquer" approach against radical Islam is the right idea: What we need is not so much to spread democracy in Saudi Arabia and Iraq, but to nudge them to oppose Iran..."

Or perhaps we should get the radical elements in Islam to overplay their hands so that everyone around them consents (tacitly) to the idea of them getting 'cut down'...?

Seems that by giving "Ahm-onna-jihad" enough rope, he has done the work of stringing himself up.

Who wants to pull the lever?

~Norsk Troll

#86 Earth2moonbat

He's talking Israel. I don't think they could get one in there. They open them all up and look.

Ain't necessarily so. Granted that it was over 15 years ago, and things may have changed, but I imported containers of goods from the US to Israel, and routinely bribed customs agents(baksheesh) to not open them and assess them for taxation (criminal, I know, but SOP). Most solicited the bribe. Yes, I was shocked the first time that it happened...the guy just laughed at my naivete.

Unless things have changed(and I doubt it) it could happen.

#102 Killian Bundy

The only question about Thor weapons is how accurate they can be. Since they necessarily run at temperatures of thousands of degrees, they can't very well be guided. I'm guessing that's what they're working on.

And if they ever did get one of those things pointed in the wrong direction...

#101 sailordude:

I would think if you wanted to strike a death blow against "Islam"...just outlaw it in the western world and send em all home. Then institute a containment policy a la the Truman Doctrine and wait for Islam to implode.

That's pretty much what I expect to happen at some point. It's the only workable long-term strategy I can think of.

#109 M. Bensson-Levi

That's coming by ship from the US. Savage was talking about overland, which necessarily means from a hostile country.

#105 Palandine

Somebody will eventually have to deal with Iran, and it will either be the US or Israel.

/my vote for the most true statement ever posted on LGF

#74 Adrenalyn

Absolutely right. I wasn't giving GWB a pass, but hell, the dems are already warning against more troops in Iraq. According to them, a surge will only worsen the situation. They're moving full steam ahead with the "phased redeployment" plan. They will want to pacify the Islamists at ANY cost.

#91 Iron Fist

I don't think the Israelis have the balls, frankly.

Neither do we. Not as a first strike.

Sadly, I agree with you. I hope that we're both wrong.

Iran opposes obtaining nuclear weapons and intends to use its nuclear technology for peaceful purposes under the framework of the Nonproliferation Treaty, Iranian nuclear negotiator Ali Larijani said Friday.

"But," Larijani warned, "if we are threatened, the situation may change."

Somebody had better do something soon!

#108 Iron Fist

:)

When I go out backpacking with my women's group, they call the knife I carry strapped to the front of my pack "The Crocodile Dundee."

Got a handgun and a rifle and a lot of ammo. When Uncle Sam gives me some of my tax money back, I'm buying a 20-gauge shotgun (too wimpy for the 12-gauge, and I reckon it'll do the trick anyway...).

Plans? Of course Israel would have plans, even under Olmert.
What else do expect them to do?
Carrying out those PLANS is another story.

/drudge doesn't even have that one...nor should he...dick with a hat

The sooner. The better. For everyone.
Hear that Vlad, you Polonium Mongrel.

#100 lobo91

The scariest war plan I ever read was the complete version of OPLAN 4102, the Single Integrated Operation Plan (SIOP) for the defense of Western Europe against Soviet invasion. I had a copy in one of the safes in my office in the mid-80s.

Here is the view from the otherside
1979 map revealing the Soviet bloc's vision of a seven-day atomic holocaust between Nato and Warsaw Pact forces.

# 102 Killian Bundy

Actually, I've seen proposals for "Conventional Deep-Penetrator Kinetic-Kill Weapons" launched by ICBMs dating to the 1960s. Back then, the idea was to be able to "neutralize" (i.e., erase) high-value "hardened" targets in the enemy's rear areas in a theater-level war without crossing the nuclear threshold. It wouldn't have been needed for a confrontation between NATO and WARPAC forces in the Fulda Gap, but it was considered to be a good option in event of a staredown with the Red Chinese over, say, Taiwan. Interestingly enough, the earliest proposals from RAND Corporation dated to about the time the PRC was believed to be developing their first home-grown fission weapons, around 1965-66.

So we're talking about technology that probably predates the B-2 and F-117. Which means that either (a) we have it if we need it, or (b) for some reason, it's not considered worth the effort. I call the odds six-five and pick 'em.

/channeling Tom Clancy :-)

cheers

eon

#106 Mike C.

# 97 THX-42

We all know that isn't going to happen, so do you have any other ideas ?

I think it will happen. And I think that the ONLY country with the means, the motivation, and the guts to do it is...Israel. In other words, put me in the camp that believes this is more than just a "war gaming plan".

Why? Israel understands that they live ONLY if the US has "assured survivability". Once Iran feels it has sufficient nukes to deliver a fatal blow to the US, Israel is a goner. And they know that.

[Link: img.photobucket.com...]

okay, okay...I'll draw up some real plans, that dinnerjacket gets on my nerves too!

54 right side

alliance between America, Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iran

I've been thinking that myself for awhile. The Sunnis may decide they hate the Shia even more than they hate the Jews. Certainly the Saudis. Kuwaitis et al are smart enough to fear Iran more than Israel.
I don't think either Israel or the US would use nukes first. The Israelis don't need nukes, they have the secret Jewish mind beams.

If I had to come to an analytical conclusion, I'd say that Israel has to strike sometime this week due to the Democrats taking control of different sensitive committees. These new member will of a certainty leak critical details of how Iran is to be dealt with and I'm thinking that the Jews don't want that info out there. At the very least, they will leak it themselves as it suits their plans. When it comes to "cloak & dagger" and "black bag" stuff, there is a lot of double and triple spins on every 'leaked' piece of information.

This isn't over...not by a long shot.

Just my 2 cents.

[Link: www.acc.umu.se...]

I'm taking bets on an Israeli strike, you in?

#120 eon

So we're talking about technology that probably predates the B-2 and F-117. Which means that either (a) we have it if we need it, or (b) for some reason, it's not considered worth the effort. I call the odds six-five and pick 'em.

Which begs the question . . .

/just what is the state of Black technology now, today?

#112 Earth2moonbat

That's coming by ship from the US.

Also, ain't necessarily so.

Savage was talking about overland, which necessarily means from a hostile country.

Baksheesh is baksheesh. Also, never underestimate the venality of customs agents, or over rate their intelligence, or devotion to duty...Sad to say.

It can happen.

Last year when Ariel Sharon was urgently brought to the hospital to what we now know was his coma, my Israeli friends and I thought (or rather foolishly hoped) that this was all a diversion, and that while the world was listening to news about our ailing prime minister, the IAF was busy taking care of any Iranian nuclear facilities that might exist... Like in Iraq in 1981...

Wishful thinking, none of that happened and Ariel Sharon's stay in the hospital was for real.

54 right side

alliance between America, Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iran

~~~

Saudi Arabia? You joking! Those retards play every side of the coin and secretly pray for Israel's destruction

Several years ago I attended a lunchtime lecture re: limited yield ground penetrating nukes and bunker-busters. Unfortunately the speaker was shouted down by libs in the audience and never delivered his talk. Clearly they exist at some level whether at 30M or greater depths of penetration. Israeli research may have gone beyond ours on this subject.

#128 *micol*

That would have been a perfect plan!

When the order comes, the sub shoots a 65-ton Trident II ballistic missile into the sky. Within 2 minutes, the missile is traveling at more than 20,000 ft. per second. Up and over the oceans and out of the atmosphere it soars for thousands of miles. At the top of its parabola, hanging in space, the Trident's four warheads separate and begin their screaming descent down toward the planet. Traveling as fast as 13,000 mph, the warheads are filled with scored tungsten rods with twice the strength of steel. Just above the target, the warheads detonate, showering the area with thousands of rods-each one up to 12 times as destructive as a .50-caliber bullet. Anything within 3000 sq. ft. of this whirling, metallic storm is obliterated.

Hypersonic Cruise Missile: America's New Global Strike Weapon

Talk talk talk...I wish the west would unite and remove the cancer of iran before it's too late. Even if we don't get through all the bunkers we'll irradiate the place and hit them again and again...till they beg us to stop. Unconditional surrender is the only way to end this.

Ideally it should be at least an American strike.

I don't want to wait until a smoldering nuked Tel Aviv or NYC or Dallas gives us "moral authority"..they have ostensibly declared war with all their "death to America" screaming.

Destroy Iran

No nukes tomorrow, please. It's my birthday, and I requested a great big ice cream cake from DQ. Huge fluctuations towards the upper end of the Celsius scale would blow the whole deal.

/

#120 eon

Global Strike

Moonbat Take

Conventional ICBM

Navy Take

They wouldn't reveal 'secret plans' of the mad mullahs, so let's just take this for what it's really all about:

Eeeevil Jooos.

ddg-16

Unfortunately the speaker was shouted down by libs in the audience and never delivered his talk.

Right out of Hitler's playbook.

#134 Cartman

Hey,

Happy, Happy! Send me a piece...love that stuff!

#138 M. B-L

Will do. It may be in a rather liquified state by the time it reaches you, but what the hey. It's the thought that counts. ;)

I'm thinking that if Iran had a few serious problems to worry about, things would get a lot easier for the US in Iraq. As far as things that would be distracting to Iran, I think that our new leadership team in Iraq has a few ideas. We shall soon see.

Every country that has nuclear weapons has "plans drawn up" for when and how they would be used if the need ever arose. It's called "being prepared." I highly doubt Israel would use nukes first because of the harm it would do to their international relations, even with the US. Israel doesn't need to strike Iran first with nukes anyway. If Iran ever used a nuke against Israel, it might or might not mean the end of Israel, but it would be the end of Iran with 100% certainty. If Israel was unable to respond in a way that annihilated Iran, the US would finish the job for them.

Now, I've only heard this once, and it was on the radio, but I understand Dinnerjacket's people are getting pretty pissed off at him. Too busy shooting his mounth off about other countries, and not doing much of anything at home.

Hmm...now that I think of it, kind of sounds familiar...like here in the US? That's a pretty scary thought now.

#26 EtNorskTroll

Long live Israel. Death to tyranny, fascism and Muhammed (Please Beat Until Hamburger).

Long live Israel. Death to tyranny, fascism and Muhammed (Please Beat Until Hamburger) (Please Beat Until Hogshit).

There.

That f***cking Drudge, always spilling the beans!

[Link: www.geocities.com...]

Will Korea retaliate on behalf of Iran?

[Link: content.ytmnd.com...]

#119 bonz

From you link:

Perhaps because the map shows a limited war game exercise, entitled Seven Days to the River Rhine, rather than full invasion plans, troops stop at the Rhine, and there are no attacks or bomb strikes on Britain, or on France.

During my tour in West Germany I had it from a good source that the contingency plan if Western Europe fell in a conventional conflict to the soviets was all out thermo nuclear response against the USSR.

France's plan, not a member of NATO, said its resposne to soviet aggression was to turn Germany into a glass parking lot to stop soviet advancement.

[Link: i19.photobucket.com...]

#147 Buckeye Abroad 1/6/2007 04:26PM PST

#119 bonz

From you link:

Perhaps because the map shows a limited war game exercise, entitled Seven Days to the River Rhine, rather than full invasion plans, troops stop at the Rhine, and there are no attacks or bomb strikes on Britain, or on France.

During my tour in West Germany I had it from a good source that the contingency plan if Western Europe fell in a conventional conflict to the soviets was all out thermo nuclear response against the USSR.

France's plan, not a member of NATO, said its resposne to soviet aggression was to turn Germany into a glass parking lot to stop soviet advancement.

Actually, Buckeye, my dad was stationed in Germany while he was in the military. He worked on the nuke missles (Honest John, etc). That was exactly the plan: if the Russians invaded through the valley, it was go time for nuclear conflaguration (to staunch the flow of Soviet Troops). My dad had his orders and his crew was always ready to launch within 30 minutes or less.

I have no reason to doubt my dad's word on it.

~Norsk Troll

#147 Buckeye Abroad
The Neutron weapon would have wiped out any Soviet advantage which is why they organized demonstrations in the West and turned the disinformation campaign up full blast. They termed it the "Neutron Bomb" which it wasn't.Jimmah buckled and killed the program

Here is the article in the Sunday Times, if it has not yet been posted.

FYI

Fox News is reporting:

Breaking News >> Israel Reportedly Planning Nuclear Strike On Iran

#139 Cartman 1/6/2007 04:19PM PST

#138 M. B-L

Will do. It may be in a rather liquified state by the time it reaches you, but what the hey. It's the thought that counts. ;)

EEEeeewww~!

TMI, Cartman.

TMI.

~Norsk Troll

#70 rustinpuppets

OMG...is that for real? I can hardly believe my eyes. The world has officially gone to hell.

#139 Cartman

Gotta love this GLOBAL WARMING stuff! Best idea Al Bore ever had...oh yeah, I forgot, he's against it. Asshole!

#53 lobo91

#44 Dr, Manhattan:

Bunker busters cannot penetrate hundreds of feet of rock. I wonder whether a tactical nuke could do it either...

There's no real need to destroy the facilities themselves. That's the nice thing about underground complexes. All you really have to do is destroy the entrances/ventilation shafts.

I have always said we can just slam the door.

In the day of saturation bombing with dumb iron digging in was a good defense. Now precise bombing it would be painting yourself into a corner.

Then again, even in WWII it wasn't such a grand idea
[Link: www.lacoupole-france.com...]

The Jerusalem Post had this three days ago.

Dis may be mo betta

la coupole
[Link: www.v2rocket.com...]

#154 savage_nation 1/6/2007 04:36PM PST

#149 EtNorskTroll

My Dad's last name was very unique, Savage, especially since he worked on the nukes (hint, hint). He served until 1962. He served with a man called "Larry Gabauer"...

?

~Norsk Troll

Israel has drawn up “secret” plans to destroy Iranian uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons.

Beats our secret plan for diplomacy.
BTW - Has anyone found Ellison's swearing in video, that has him putting his personal hygiene hand on the Koran?

#145 savage_nation

...Easy to do and not see a border agent.

You're right on that one. A careful, and determined enemy could strike hard at multiple targets...comparatively low tech style.

Not the best of all worlds.

#149 and 154

And my dad was in Korea manning a missile battery whose purpose was to nuke the North Koreans if they ever crossed the DMZ and he also told me about the nukes pointed at the Fulda Gap.

#11 ibrodsky

It's time to show the Mohammed-worshipping scum who is boss.

That's almost word-for-word what I said after 9/11. We are going to have to do it, one way or another.

Charles,
Why speculate? Everybody knows you get all the secret Israeli plans.

/nodroG

#149 Norsk Troll

That was exactly the plan: if the Russians invaded through the valley, it was go time for nuclear conflaguration (to staunch the flow of Soviet Troops).

That was a gimme. I was told they had 5 tanks to our (NATO) one and we would be heavily relying on air-superiority. Short range nukes would have been needed. What I am referrering is that if we did lose the plot in W. Europe, our ICBMs in CONUS and Ohio's (sub-class) would retaliate by targeting deep within the USSR.

#151 bonz

Jimmah buckled and killed the program

I, somehow, cannot foresee that the PRC can build them, but we refrain. Call me sceptical (despite what Dhimmi Carter said).

#154 savage_nation

I know Augsburg. Was the home of 66th MI and an artillery brigade.

And to think that ALL this was made possible by the one and only Jimmah Carter. What a disgraceful excuse of not only a President, but of an American. Just think of what we would be like if he had 8 years,,,

#164 endotoxin

And my dad was in Korea manning a missile battery whose purpose was to nuke the North Koreans if they ever crossed the DMZ..

Impossible. The US Army or its government has never confirmed or denied the existance of nuclear weapons inside South Korea.

Your dad was obviously wrong. ;)

#167 Buckeye Abroad 1/6/2007 04:51PM PST

#149 Norsk Troll

That was exactly the plan: if the Russians invaded through the valley, it was go time for nuclear conflaguration (to staunch the flow of Soviet Troops).

That was a gimme. I was told they had 5 tanks to our (NATO) one and we would be heavily relying on air-superiority. Short range nukes would have been needed. What I am referrering is that if we did lose the plot in W. Europe, our ICBMs in CONUS and Ohio's (sub-class) would retaliate by targeting deep within the USSR.

Ahhh.

Gotcha.

~Norsk Troll

If Iran has some black market nukes, we'd better be careful or we might end up minus a couple of aircraft carriers.

Let's pray they lay their nuclear facilities to waste, quickly now. Then, lets hope the good people of Iran can rise up and overthrow their dispicable "government." Go Israel!

If it were up to me, use conventional weapons on them first and use nukes as a last resort.

"Dec 1939 almost there"

#171 Georgian 1/6/2007 04:58PM PST

If Iran has some black market nukes, we'd better be careful or we might end up minus a couple of aircraft carriers.

No, Georgian:

If Iran has some black market nukes, THEY'D better be careful or THEY might end up minus a couple providences.

I'm just sayin', is all...

~Norsk Troll

#155 norsk

Not sure what you had on your mind, but that definitely wasn't on mine. Whatever floats your boat.

#157 m. b-l

Gotta love this GLOBAL WARMING stuff! Best idea Al Bore ever had...oh yeah, I forgot, he's against it. Asshole!

Him...or me? Lotta things getting lost in translation here within this thread?

Possible diversion?

...still leaning towards Isreal turning Mecca and Medina into a glass factory.

"Islam is not a race"

#177 Cartman 1/6/2007 05:04PM PST

#155 norsk

Not sure what you had on your mind, but that definitely wasn't on mine. Whatever floats your boat.

LOL!

:D

#12 Ferris

Anyone really believe Olmert has the stones for that one?

Between his ears, sure, that's the problem.

#36 hans ze beeman

Says Douglas Davis,

In addition to Iran’s indigenous nuclear programme, there have been reports that it has bought several nuclear bombs ‘off the shelf’ from rogue scientists in the former Soviet Union. So, for all the fuss about its nuclear programme, Iran might already have several tactical nuclear weapons stuffed in its armoury.

Yup.

In regards to this Dekba agitprop, nuke bunker-busters are a virtually untested technology, I doubt any plan utilizing them is very high on the options list.

#177 Cartman

Him...or me?

S'amatta you, ya gotta ask? LOL!

Now send me somma dat good stuff!

#101 sailordude 1/6/2007 03:46PM PST

Then institute a containment policy a la the Truman Doctrine and wait for Islam to implode.

That would be nice but it would never get past Pelosi the muscle flexer and the new Dhimmicrat controlled congress.

#175 EtNorskTroll

The Iranian leadership does not seem to be influenced by the Cold War logic of MAD.

The question is would we have the will to retaliate? I'm not so sure now after a large part of our population thinks that 9/11 was an inside job. What if Russia and China come in on the side of Iran?

None the less, I support doing something about Iran. I just am warning about the possibility that the Iranians could use an old tactic from the Islamic play book.

Yawn. More anonymous sources from the MSM...

This might upset Iran a bit more than those cartoons.

#184 Georgian 1/6/2007 05:13PM PST

#175 EtNorskTroll

The Iranian leadership does not seem to be influenced by the Cold War logic of MAD.

Yep.

You are right as rain, Georgian.

The more I read about "Ahm-a-nut-job", the more I come to realize that he actually relishes the idea of a nuclear holocaust breaking out.

This guy is Hitler with different skin on...and uglier clothes to boot.

Like Han Solo said so many years ago: "I have a baaad feeling about this"

~Norsk Troll

#181 m. b-l

I think I'd better invoke the "Iron Fist Rule" upon myself here pretty soon. One too many brews mixed in with the NFL playoffs, topped off by another birthday I'd much rather ignore. ;-D

It is the only option. Nothing else will get the job done, and no one else will get the job done.

A single successful nuclear strike on the center of Israel will kill roughly 70% of the population of the country. 3 or 4 million Jews.

That is not acceptable.

There really is very little left to discuss.

#180 itellu3times

Time to start somewhere.

There is no question that Tehran is developing a nuclear weapon. There is also no doubt that the Iranians intend to use this weapon on Israel as soon as they are able. So what is Israel to do? A military strike by the IAF on Iranian nuclear facilities would achieve only a temporary tactical objective. Israel is certainly not equipped to sustain a prolonged war of attrition with Iran so its only real option is to make sure that others are dragged into the fray on its side. One way to do this would be to strike Mecca and Medina with its own nuclear warheads in the event of a strike or imminent strike on Tel Aviv. None of the super powers could in that event, remain neutral, as the entire Muslim world would be obligated to respond. The mullahs of Iran do not fear their own destruction so they will not respond to the doctrine of mutually assured destruction (MAD). Perhaps they might respond to the assured destruction of Mecca and Medina, as all manner of cosmic eschatological and dogmatic complications arise in such a scenario. If Mecca was One with the Atmosphere where would the faithful go for pilgrimage (hajj) and to which direction should they pray? How would the disruption in the script for the Day of Judgement (yom al-Qiyyam) be handled?

Seems like they are planning to drop a conventional weapon, creating a huge hole, and then drop a 1 kiloton tactical nuke into the whole. Now that is clever...

#187 EtNorskTroll

Less than a week ago I was walking the grounds of the Eisenhower farm with some friends reminiscing about the 'good old days' when all we had to face were the Soviets, who were at least, rational. The dinner jacket cannot be threatened, reasoned with or cajoled - what percent of the US people and government 'get that' do you think?

Take this article with a metric ton of salt. I seriously doubt Olmert has the balls to order a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Iran. I also seriously doubt that the U.S. would allow Israel to launch such a strike.

Not today, not tommorrow, not ten years from now.

# 194 Dirk

And the Holocaust never happened!

"The Medium voter is awakening"

We could nuke them and then not take responsibility. Just say //shrug, "don't know where it came from, must be someone else". If Jon Carry could get away with saying he was a "Viet Nam Warrior", why wouldn't you think this could work.

Just a thought

#193 Killer Tomato 1/6/2007 05:28PM PST

#187 EtNorskTroll

Less than a week ago I was walking the grounds of the Eisenhower farm with some friends reminiscing about the 'good old days' when all we had to face were the Soviets, who were at least, rational. The dinner jacket cannot be threatened, reasoned with or cajoled - what percent of the US people and government 'get that' do you think?

A very small percentage, Tomato.

A very, very small percentage.

~Norsk Troll

#188 Cartman

Happy birthday! Kwit yer belly aching! I face 70 in Jan. of '08. Wanna change places?

I thought not! :)

#194 Dirk

Check your zip code!

#193 Killer Tomato

what percent of the US people and government 'get that' do you think?

10%

That is the percentage of Americans which supports any military action against Iran. In other words, it ain't gonna happen.

#194 Dirk

Helps if I give you the linkie...

[Link: www.nuclearterror.org...]

much better...

Dinner Jacket Guy would probably welcome the Israeli first strike just to unify the owrld against israel. Sick freak that he is.

Iran has pushed the envalope of patience and diplomacy to the edge ---half of remaining Jews live in Eretz Yisrael and can be wiped out by one nuclear device ---there is no secondary response time and zero planning relevant for a retaliatory backlash--a traditional air attack will trigger from Iran and Hesbullah a massive missile response while the multiple nuclear installations are degraded thru arial bombardment by Air Power--only a tactical nuclear pre-emtive attack to decapitate the Iranian command and control and destabilize military coordination and threaten any furthur response--then followed by a cascade of conventional bombardment to extinguish the diverse scattered nuclear facilities--that is what this "anticipatory news" is about and why the US Navy is now in full command of the Iraq Operation.

Thin Blue Line,

What are you babbling about?

I'd love to see the Iranians receive a nuclear smackdown. It's long overdue. Unfortunately I just don't think that's going to happen.

Dirk #206

Explain why?

#199 ny nana

Thanks for the birthday wishes, hon. Some days I feel like I'm 70. ;) God Bless ya.

10% huh? That's interesting. I was surprised to discover that one of the people I was talking to, who is L.O.S.T. (left over sixties type), had moved into the 'this guy's whacked and we better do something fast or a lot of us are going to die' camp.

So the feeling here is that we're just going to sit on our hands until half a dozen of our cities are big night lights before we do anything?

Explain why?

Israeli PM Olmert doesn't have the balls to give such an order and President Bush is unlikely to support such an order.

If I'm wrong I'll be pleasantly suprised.

#82 jcm . . .

The real target would be the brain trust. Blow the facilities and you set them back 5 years or so. Go after the brains and you set it back a generation.

Yes. There is so much that can be done and, I hope, is being done short of bombing and nuclear warfare.

#210 Dirk

Fair enough...

However Isreal will survive and you would agree my friend that they know the clock is ticking...

therefore as history has shown Bush and the USA will wake up to the news.

VnVet

I have been advocating we do this to the North Koreans next time they do a test.

Just sit back and say

"wow man, you really made a nuke"

"but damn, too bad it took out half the mountain with it"

#162 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Has anyone found Ellison's swearing in video, that has him putting his personal hygiene hand on the Koran?

Kind of.

/I saw it live, the preceding 5-10 seconds where Pelosi physically lifts his right hand off the Koran is hilarious, still looking for that video

well the news is up on Drudge finally...who's leaking all this info..maybe they should just tell them the date, time and what to have for breakfast that morning.

nuclear weapons...interesting

Iran has misread Bush and American Military Resolve--despite the President's current low ratings--A Republican Presidency is guaranteed for 8 more years if these Islamic Nazis are felled and defanged by using the available military option.

#188 Cartman

Happy birthday, Cartman. I meant to say that earlier before I wandered over to amazon.com for awhile.

My own birthday was on Tuesday, and I'd just as soon forget about it too. Next year's birthday will be extremely forgettable.

#208 cartman

Some days I feel like I'm 70. ;)

Moi? Check my little green football, to see my real age! :)

Seriously, if you hit 30 or 40? Deduct a decade, as today's 30, 50, 50, and 60 year olds are, in comparison to a generation or 2 before, are about 10 years younger than their age.

And considering the alternative? 70 doesn't seem as ancient as I feel. All I have to do is get through the upcoming birthday, and make it to '08, and then look ahead. Oy!

On topic? It's no wonder why the job of destroying Iran's nuclear capability is going to fall to Israel, and possibly the US, working together...and remember what Ilan Ramon zt'l, was a part of...if Israel had not done what it did, thanks to the Fwogs, Iraq might havd acted first...

And now, back to you! Happy birthday and many, many more!

Let the asswhoopin begin.

#19 eon

Why would a "tactical nuclear strike" be necessary?

The article states that the facilities to be hit are under 70 feet of concrete and rock and can't be taken out conventionally.

conventional laser-guided bombs would open “tunnels” into the targets. “Mini-nukes” would then immediately be fired into a plant at Natanz, exploding deep underground to reduce the risk of radioactive fallout.

A few things lend credence to the story.

1 - Israeli pilots have trained in the past few weeks for the 2000 mile trip (if true)

2 - New CENTCOM commander is an admiral, not a general

3 - We are now moving a carrier battle group into the Gulf while British and Aussie forces there are also increasing, presumably to keep order should Iran retaliate by attacking oil platforms and tankers.

Well, this discussion has been admirably sober, seemingly because so many doubt the story.

But I've just been to the Google jihad site and I've gone a little stark raving mad for now. I hope it's all true. Reading about the "plan," the way the weapons will work, just makes me . . . wet.

Hm, I wonder if I can set a record for greatest # of consecutive posts from a single lizard.

I'm taking over this thread. Get your hands away from your keyboards . . . back slowly away.

Uzi Mahnaimi is the author of the infamous "Israeli Ethno-Bomb" hoax, you know the so-called Israeli death ray that can be set to zap people of various tribes.

He does this every week.

Come on, please, Charles, this is a FAKE.

I should hope so. But the Times has been wrong before with “secret Israeli plan” stories.

The Iranians will buy it...
This is a good opportunity to again pimp the book: The Ezekiel Option by Joel Rosenberg.

A quick read of the Books of Ezekiel: 37-39 will give you a good understanding of the premise.

J. Rosenberg: It is worth keeping this intriguing thought in mind. More than two millennia ago, Ezekiel chapters 36 and 37 foretold the dramatic rebirth of modern State of Israel in the last days of history and described how Jews would pour back into the Holy Land after centuries of living in exile. Remarkably, these prophecies have come to pass in our lifetime. Is it really inconceivable, then, that the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 and 39 could happen soon? Maybe not. Time will tell.

Guys, just do a google on Uzi's name and "ethno-bomb"

Add the word "hoax"

You'll come up with some really interesting things.

The jerk is a liar.

#224 squarepeg

You would really have to try very hard to ever beat Carl in Jerusalem's record. Here is the start to just one thread he worked on..read it down.

See what I mean? :)

#227 Mardukhai

Great catch! Is he friendly with Amira Hass, or Soros? Possibly Orla Guerin?

And now the Times is becoming more like al-NYT. How sad.

I did Google, and am sorry I did. Feh!

Damn, I hope so, and soon.
But just eff the Times. How can the pieces of human debris people who write for them sleep at night...

15 beagle

excellent choice.

Regardless of Mahnaimi's record I would very much expect Israel to have such a plan be it imminent or contingent. It is vital except that non-nuclear materials should be used if they would do the job. If the Sunday Times article contains a fabrication I hope it is only concerning use of nuclear weapons.

NB ftr it may be useful distinguishing The Sunday Times from The Times. Sunday titles often do not share journalistic staff or offices with weekday papers, gathering their sensational output over a longer time-frame and providing different slants, and The Sunday Times is quite autonomous.

#54 Right Side

Good deduction...I had the thought it goes back to the old Persian versus Arab thing of the last 3000 years with israel in the middle.

The Fraudis will silently pair up with Israel as a check against Iran power in military and nuclear area expansion. Assistance covert and overt by our fleet and intelligence services will only add to it.

This is not going to end well. Expect Iranian terror cells to launch stuff in the public sphere when the ball gets rolling.

with all the shadowplay of Jorge Arbusto and the new Demoncats, it is exactly it---shadowplay like the newspaper headlines. None of these people are in charge. those in the Pentagon and intelligence services are.

You ain't going to know about it until it is in operation and full swing.

I think Olmert came up with this BS to take attention away from corruption scandal with his chief of staff of 30 years being arrested.
Olmert was afraid to use conventional force in Lebanon War this summer after Israel was attacked from Lebanese territory and Bush gave green light to crush Hizb'Allah. No reasonable person will believe Olmert would dare to attack Iran at all, leave alone with nuclear weapons. Unfortunately based on last election in Israel, former support of ethnic cleansing in Gaza, and current support of Tzipa Livni, there is a lot of unreasonable people in Israel, so his trick can work.

hey i think they are starting to like me at sunni forum.

---

"Hayseed I don't know where you get this "information" from. I think you would be a great guy if you would stop being so controversial."

I really thank charles, robert, atlass, michelle, et alfor this "information "

It's probably just PR so that Iran can justify a *pre-emptive defensive nuclear strike* when they're ready...

What strikes me as sad is the whole world really wants Israel to do this, but will condemn them the second they do.

I wouldn't get too excited. The whole story in the Sunday Times is apparently suspect, its author having indulged in anti-Israel fantasies and scare-mongering before. See two reports:
Uzi Discovers Another Israeli Plot
and Israeli Military Leaks ... UPDATE: The Reporter Who Cried Wolf?

237 zellmad

What strikes me as sad is the whole world really wants Israel to do this, but will condemn them the second they do.

What really strikes me sad is the whole world does not care enough to do it themselves. And do it they could The US could do it with ease and we all know it. Yet under great peril against great odds Israel will do it despite the experts saying it is near impossible on their own.

Spit...they all mouth like lying robots never again yet when it comes to defend a Jew everyone runs with their excuses like dogs with their tails between their legs.

Nothing has changed from pre-Shoah all the way till now.

#238 Anat
Thank you for those links.

From Mr. Mahnaimi especially, this flavor of reportage should not be cause for surprise. Such august organizations as The Institute for Historical Review—yes, review of that—count themselves fans of his work. In 1998, before the West awakened to the specter of Islamism, Mr. Mahnaimi was issuing other wild-eyed news bits about the evils of Israel. “Israel Planning ‘Ethnic’ Bomb,” one headline read. Mr. Mahnaimi claimed in his article that Israel was trying to isolate Arab-only genes so that a biological weapon could be developed to destroy them all. These were published in the International Herald Tribune, Uzi’s ravings were, and fell about as flat as this latest news that Israel is going to turn the deserts of Iran into ones even more barren than they are at present.

Mr. Mahnaimi seems to specialize in giving Israel's enemies ammunition to seek sanctions at the UN. He has already created a trail of false reports, in order to accomplish this, so I would not give any credence whatsoever to his speculations concerning Israel's war plans. Whatever war plans Israel has, they are not known by this crackpot "journalist" Uzi Mahnaimi.