Enemedia - we see you....

#2

It gives "killfile" a whole new meaning.

it would not surprise me in the least if Hooper managed to get AP writer William C. Mann to alter a quotation after it had gone to print.

I'm sure that's what happened, Charles.
And if Rush Limbaugh asked for the same courtesy? Ha!

The MSM has been carrying CAIR's water for quite a long time. This is nothing new.

They used Ajax to clean up Dougie's comments.

So let me get this straight...we cherry-pick and take out of context, but a QUOTE (by dem, LLL, cair, islime)can be altered and no big deal? We are watching our past, present and future being rewritten as we sit here. Vortex getting faster and more dangerous.

Scrubbing quotes to appeal to western affect - at least CAIR now acknowledges that it doesn't sound appropriate - even if they still believe it.

Another point not mentioned by her are those vaunted MSM proofreaders and fact checkers. Where were they in this story? Did anyone call Ibrahim Hooper to verify his quote for the 2 am story?

Inquiring minds want to know!

The AP needs an enema.

In 20 years (same could be said now even) our children will truly have no idea about their heritage...so watered down and purposefully changed for vile agendas and purposes.

It's a shame anyway:

...she...will bring an increase to the level of anti-Muslim bias in this country that we saw her bring to the situation in Europe

Like when SHE stabbed to death that movie director, isn't it ?

Is anyone really surprised that the AP would help CAIR out like this? I'm not.

And al-Reuters is carrying water for the WaPo story intentionally portraying Levin's criticism of Feith and pre-war intelligence as coming from the Pentagon.
"Report faults prewar Pentagon intelligence.
This after the WaPo had already corrected it!

well, I'm sure they realized, either AP, CAIR, or both, that if Hirsi used "hate speech" then anything CAIR or any other Muslim group said similar to it would also be Hate Speech

can you just hear Hannity asking Hooper "Exactly what did she say that was hateful?" And then producing a similar quote from a prominent Muslim.

I don't know that Islam can survive the information age

"Oh what a tangled web we weave
when first we practice to deceive"

It's like in the other thread...the subversives EDIT the truth...

/in the business of EDITING the truth since Karl Marx...

From the Hot Air Link:

Which brings us to our exit questions. First, am I missing some other obvious explanation? And second, if not, is giving sources a do-over on quotes after a story’s been published standard practice in the industry? I’m asking in earnest. I honestly don’t know the answer.

I want to know the answer too.

One thing's for sure. CAIR are terrified of Ayaan. May God protect her.

they gotta learn to use the right words, and avoid the wrong words
take this ingenius poem, for example:
[Link: www.cruxy.com...]

Poitiers-Lepanto (#11),

Exactly. As always, it's a thinly vieled threat: "Piss me off and I'll kick your ass."

TV alert for tonight. Hannity's FNC show at 9 ET will have the imam meltdown from Friday. Sans Skeletor, it should be fairly unbalanced.

Sorta OT, sorta not:

[Link: www.hvk.org...]

cair should be terrified of her. she is being featured in a slew of women's magazines including Vogue Magazine, one of those mags you can flip thru at the grocery store. so as much as they try to paint her as some extreme racist, she is being championed by many as a heroine in mainstream publications

can you just hear Hannity asking Hooper "Exactly what did she say that was hateful?" And then producing a similar quote from a prominent Muslim.

Yes, and I can hear Hooper saying something like, "Let me answer the question. Let me answer the question. Let me answer the question. Now are you going to ask me the question?"

The ends justify the means I suppose. The only problem is their vison of the end will mean the END.

21 Kaintuck:

The skilful use of taqiyya and kitman was often a matter of life and death against enemies; it is also a matter of life and death to many contemporary Islamic terrorists. As so often in the history of Islam, a theological doctrine became operational.

During the Spanish inquisition, Sunni Moriscos attended mass and returned home to wash their hands of the 'holy water'. In operational terms, taqiyya and kitman allowed the 'mujahadeen ' to assume whatever identity was necessary to fulfill their mission; they had doctrinal and theological and later jurisprudential sanction to pretend to be Jews or Christians to gain access to Christian and Jewish targets: 'the mujahadeen can take the shape of the enemy'.

So the 'Religion' of 'Peace' is now the 'Religion of say and do whatever the hell we want, enshallah, to promote our agenda of killing the Great Western Shayten and to wipe Israel off the map..."

Another thing: would they (both cair and their AP supporters) mind speaking...English ?
Look at this sentence:

"We believe that she will bring an increase to the level of anti-Muslim bias in this country that we saw her bring to the situation in Europe," the council's communications director, Ibrahim Hooper, said in an interview Saturday.

"she will bring an increase to the level that we saw" ?

Is that arabic-English ?

Instead of listening to a single word coming from CAIR (I could CAIR less), there's always an interesting Sunday read elsewhere.

...liars lie...the Associated Press among them...

#25 Oh no...

So the 'Religion' of 'Peace' is now the 'Religion of say and do whatever the hell we want, enshallah, to promote our agenda of killing the Great Western Shayten and to wipe Israel off the map..."

Well, not as concise but closer to the truth, I reckon. :-)

G_d hates liars.
AP = UNBELIEVABLE.

While it's probably nothing new, it's nice to see them getting caught and apprehended these days.

Thanks, Charles, you heapum brave chief with many scalps taken!

Lizards, I need your help:
I am looking for a new bumper sticker - something gloriously pro-Israel, and something that will really tick off those St. Paul/Macalester Wellstone lovers.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

What scares me is that the web of the invaders is now complete: Ayaan Hirsi Ali finds here the same enemies who threaten her in Europe.

Where in the world could her go and NOT meet the same threat ? Probably nowhere.

The great phase one of the invasion is complete and the teams are fully operational.

And the Free World...
still mainly zzzz zzzz zzzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

www.sweetness-light.com...] target="_blank">

What media bias? Dem halo effect

ht/ American Thinker

#32 Freakagriep

WHAT THE MOSSAD WOULD DO ?

It seems to me, no matter what kind of outright lies, distortions or deceptions that come out of the A.P., they always have a "msm/gullible public" campaign that tries to rationalize or justify their outright lies distortions and deceptions.

Then they issue a statement, "No harm, no foul, lets move along kids, there's nothing to see here, pay no attention to the bloggers".

Given that they have the King of Deception as their guide, it's any wonder that they even bother to ever offer any excuses, rationalizations, or justifications.

I guess it's their little way of trying to sound legitimate, unfortuntely for them, the only fools that ever buy it, are already deceived.

33 Poitiers-Lepanto

And the Free World...
still mainly zzzz zzzz zzzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

What do you mean...zzz...zzz...zzz..zzz, I was wide awake when the Colt's won. :)

/sarc

here's the link

#32 freakagriep
Bumper Sticker

y'know, we have really become too immune to this crap

the absolute outrage is this:

Her creative partner, Theo Van Gogh, was murdered in cold blood, and if she hadn't gone into hiding, she might have been murdered as well

The AP is letting CAIR get away with blaming the victim, in this case an artist excercising her free speech rights to draw attention to what she felt to be a worthy cause, namely violence against women

to blame her is absolutely despicable
she is under threat of death 24-7 from the very same Muslim extremists who in this AP story whine about Islamophobia
it's absurd

Q: How can you tell when a CAIR spokesman is telling lies?
A: When there is a camera or microphone in front of him.

Q: How can you tell when AP writers or editors are telling lies?
A: When there is a keyboard in front of them.

Q: How many AP personnel does it require to relay the truth?
A: Is that even possible?

OT, from earlier thread:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I once visted the al-Aqsa mosque, and had tea with the waqf curator, Sheik Mustafa Ansari Kahlil. My name is in the guestbook, if it still survives. It was a charming little spot.
That said, I now claim sovereignty over the Temple Mount. It was my Great∞-Grandfather's workplace, and I want it back.

Someone needs to write a program that periodically checks the stories AP, al-Reuters, etc., have on the web and against previous versions, noting changes.

#40 Friarstale

to blame her is absolutely despicable
she is under threat of death 24-7 from the very same Muslim extremists who in this AP story whine about Islamophobia
it's absurd

Nope, it's the invasion.

#40 friarstail

to blame her is absolutely despicable
she is under threat of death 24-7 from the very same Muslim extremists who in this AP story whine about Islamophobia
it's absurd

Not absurd, but purely evil.

Pure evil!

32 freak

How about this:

Thanks for Israel, Britain. Now how 'bout a piece of Iraq?

or wd that be too long?

#32 freakagriep 2/11/2007 12:34PM PST

Lizards, I need your help:
I am looking for a new bumper sticker - something gloriously pro-Israel, and something that will really tick off those St. Paul/Macalester Wellstone lovers.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

The back of my POV: [Link: farm1.static.flickr.com...]
Print a photo, and put it in the back window of your vehicle. Covers most of it.

Why does the AP constantly change stories and interviews that are consistantly sympathetic to CAIR? We got about two weeks worth of honest reporting after 911 and thats it. Every story since then has been "anti-war" or against US interests. Everyone talks about how conservative Fox news is, but Fox is not that conservative, only every other news network is so liberal that it make Fox look conservative.

#46 American Soldier

Your car and my car should start dating. I think they have a lot in common.

#39 mama winger
I like that one. Have to get a copy.

#39 mama winger
Perfect!

#46 American Soldier
Good call. Thanks!

#48 mama winger 2/11/2007 12:48PM PST

#46 American Soldier

Your car and my car should start dating. I think they have a lot in common.

I'll smuggle it across the Cheddar Curtain in the morning. First I have to safely get across the People's Republic of Illinois.

#51 American Soldier

Watch out for this guy.

AP got cairless for a moment, but now it's been fixed.

#53 Find...

AP got cairless for a moment, but now it's been fixed.

Yes, at AP they are very proud of doing their job with a lot of cair.

Rudy a Hit With California GOP

Gravitas!

#52 mama winger 2/11/2007 12:54PM PST

#51 American Soldier

Watch out for this guy.

ROFL. I spent a few hours listening to the moonbats on Nate Clay's WLS-AM show this AM, got so angry I wound up calling in. They think Obama is the Second Coming, and Durbin is his Chief Acolyte.

/the hardest part of driving through IL & WI is hiding the weapons

#53 find your violent jihadi on ebay! 2/11/2007 12:54PM PST

AP got cairless for a moment, but now it's been fixed.
#54 Poitiers-Lepanto 2/11/2007 12:56PM PST

#53 Find...

AP got cairless for a moment, but now it's been fixed.

Yes, at AP they are very proud of doing their job with a lot of cair.

Groan! Fortunately, I couldn't cair less.

#56 American Soldier

/the hardest part of driving through IL & WI is hiding the weapons

Tell me about it. I've got a rifle under a sack of potatoes and a bag of laundry. :)

It's hard to imagine anyone who comes across less hateful than Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She'd be justified if she was hateful. Which makes her demeanor that much more amazing.

#58 me

To all Wisconsin Law Enforcement authorities. Post number 58 was written by my cat. I take no responsibility for feline infractions of the gun laws.

#58 mama winger 2/11/2007 01:00PM PST

Tell me about it. I've got a rifle under a sack of potatoes and a bag of laundry. :)

My kind of woman! Would Young Winger mind you seeing an officer?

#57 American Soldier

The Lizards:
People who cairlessly care.

42 Doss:

"Someone needs to write a program that periodically checks the stories AP, al-Reuters, etc., have on the web and against previous versions, noting changes."

Not really...I automatically assumec every story by the MSM is a lie until proven otherwise.

Behold the left-wing media: Here for all your sanitizing needs.

Hillary certainly might want to consider mopping up some of the anti-semitic comments at the DailyKos.

DailyKos featured on Hillary Clinton website:

[Link: www.hillaryclinton.com...]

#60 mama winger 2/11/2007 01:01PM PST

#58 me

To all Wisconsin Law Enforcement authorities. Post number 58 was written by my cat. I take no responsibility for feline infractions of the gun laws.

While in Milwaukee a few weeks ago, I actually took the time to look at WI carry laws. It is apparently legal to carry loaded long and side arms that are visible.
You would probably get arrested for disorderly or disturbing, however.
Your Governor, in a debate during the race, stated that he saw no reason for WI citizens to possess firearms for self-defense.

47 Loflyer

Everyone talks about how conservative Fox news is, but Fox is not that conservative, only every other news network is so liberal that it make Fox look conservative.

So true.

/off to get my AR-15 pimped. Later, all.

"What I like about the Niebyl-Proctor Marxist Library is that it's a place to talk and debate what went right, and what went wrong, in those movements, and what we can apply in the future."

The above quotes is from "YellowDogBlue", an author at the DailyKos.

YellowDogBlue was singled out by Hillary Clinton to praise Hillary at the Hillary Clinton campaign website [Link: www.hillaryclinton.com...]

#61 American Soldier

My kind of woman! Would Young Winger mind you seeing an officer?

Why? do you know any? LOL!

I'm just joshing wit' ya - but I see that you have left the building. See you later A-S.

Compare:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

[Link: www.hillaryclinton.com...]

What media bias?

Hey mama winger! New hair? looks good!

#73 Jim in Virginia

Hey mama winger! New hair? looks good!

You like? I did it all by myself - Just like the picture on the box! LOL!

Mama Winger -

Here's a story I think you'll like.

Another blogger endorsing Hillary Clinton at Hillary's campaign website:

"What George Soros Can Do"
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

#75 windybon

He bought Boss a sausage, egg and cheese croissant as a reward.

Aww, as well he should. Dogs are so great. I almost lost one of mine this week to a severe gastric bleed. It's been touch and go since Monday, but today she's off the IV and I think she's going to make it. Thanks for the great story.

I dunno, both quotes seem about the same to me.

Freakagriep,
I'm getting some of these
[Link: www.cafepress.com...]

Funnyman and dictator Adolf Hilter....
A Hitler comedy

It looks real to me.

The first quote comes from an AP article written by William C. Mann Winston Smith and entitled “Critic of Islam finds new home in U.S.”

and let us not forget the Super CIAR Song
[Link: cruxy.com...]

Is the Associated Press now in the business of cleaning up the more outrageous statements made by CAIR officials like Ibrahim Hooper?

This is a non-story. Regardless of which version you read, CAIR has obviously launched an effort to tar Hirsi Ali and kill her message. Moreover, the allegedly outrageous statement is part of normal discourse about such matters in America, and would only appear outrageous to those who have (correctly) identified CAIR as an Islamist front group.

Sometimes I feel this site dwells too much on minutiae and conspiracy theories about the press at the risk of missing the big picture. CAIR is the real problem here, not the AP. One reason Hooper and friends are such effective propagandists is that they don't continually allow themselves to be sidetracked by conspiracy theories. They will only be defeated if anti-Islamists develop the judgment to see how some of their concerns look to people on the outside with little knowledge of CAIR or Islamism. Why dilute your credibility by focusing on such a small detail when the bigger picture is what's alarming?

#56 American Soldier

Please don't mention Nate Clay here. Thank you. You stomached "hours" of listening to him? Who are you, Soldier? Jack frikkin' Bauer?

Nate is WLS's preemptive adherence to the "Fairness Doctrine." I'm just glad he's on just in the wee hours, and once a week. He makes my blood boil.

Meanwhile Blue Crab Boulevard catches al-AP leaving out some pertinent, and damning, evidence against Iran's involvement in Iraq.

Gaius compares the al-AP report to AFP's to get the real story of Iran supplying terrorists with arms:

Get that? The AP fails - completely - to report that photographic evidence was provided to the reporters. Even AFP, not noted for its love of the US government, did not attempt to leave that detail unreported.

#80 Killgore Trout

Funnyman and dictator Adolf Hilter.... A Hitler comedy
It looks real to me.

The letter from Roosevelt is real enough, and that is an accurate translation form German in the video.

What Hooper actually said:

"#@@!^^$(*&^###$%@()*))) Mohamed%$#@!&"

#85, Quilly Mammoth. I'm sure that cognito can explain it all in a way that makes it apparent to all concerned that your lying eyes are decieving you.

Would be really interesting to know whether:

(a) CAIR called AP and said, "We need a do-over", and AP said, sure no prob

or

(b) AP decided on its own to rewrite CAIR's words to make them more palatable

Both would be equally morally repugnant, still would be informative to know.

#86 bweep
Damn, you're right. The fakes are so good these days I'm always suspicious.

#42 Doss 2/11/2007 12:43PM PST

Someone needs to write a program that periodically checks the stories AP, al-Reuters, etc., have on the web and against previous versions, noting changes.
I get sad just knowing that we are contemplating doing these sort of things to our own media. These are our peers. But, alas, I have to agree. Our children are at stake and our history. Because if we don't do this. We will be apathetically entering the gas chamber.
/sad - sad day

These people are slick.

THE Glover Park Group, the consulting firm run by longtime Clinton campaign gurus Howard Wolfson and Gigi Georges, has been hired by Allianz, the German insurance giant that owes more than $500 million to the World Trade Center rebuilding effort. Allianz is among the last holdouts to pay up 9/11 claims. "Their endless delays are causing developer Larry Silverstein and the Port Authority much consternation," said a source. "Glover Park is trying to use its Clinton connections to smooth the way for the much-maligned Allianz, but downtown real estate insiders say the arrangement could cut off a vital stream of fund-raising for Hillary's '08 presidential bid." Wolfson told Page Six, "Allianz has only one goal - ending all the arguments and completing the rebuilding as soon as possible. New Yorkers know that it's been Mr. Silverstein's endless delays and demands that have prevented this progress."

It seems entirely possible to me that the reporter collected both quotes from the source, and swapped one for the other. Matter of fact I feel fairly confident that's what happened, and here's why: There's no motivation to craft the second quote from thin air, and in a story that's so likely to receive scruitiny, there's the opposite motivation, toward strictness in quotations. I suspect the writer, unless he is a maroon, recorded the interview and can prove both quotes are correct.

(The slightly more likely, yet still unlikely, possibility is that Hooper saw his quote in the early version, disliked it, and called the writer to 'clarify' his point. But the writer should have stiff-armed him.)

But regardless of the mechanics of the situation: Why did the writer feel the need to swap quotes at all? The first version is a better quote. It's more direct and shorter. Punchier.

So what gives, William C. Mann?

83 truthteller,

Yep, I agree.

Cognito (#94),

Matter of fact I feel fairly confident that's what happened,

Pure speculation.

And did you write to any of the involved parties for clarification?

Cuz I'm not taking your word for it.

Welcome to 1984 and the memory slot.

AP = Minitrue

Ignorance is strength ....

96 Geepers,

Don't play dumb. Read my entire post.

#98 Cognito

Why would Ibrahim say almost the exact same thing two different times, using only slightly different wording?

00 Charles

What we’re looking at here, I suspect (but obviously can’t prove), is Hooper having made the first comment during their interview, then gotten buyer’s remorse when he saw how shrill it looked in print. So he called up the AP hours after the fact and asked them to replace it with a more “nuanced” version — and the AP agreed to do so.

Which brings us to our exit questions. First, am I missing some other obvious explanation? And second, if not, is giving sources a do-over on quotes after a story’s been published standard practice in the industry? I’m asking in earnest. I honestly don’t know the answer.

Another double standard for terrorists, and their shills.

#94, Cognito. Who are your heros? Who are your role models?

99 Freak,

I wasn't there, but I know that in many interviews a subject will speak of a topic from a number of angles, just like we do in normal conversation, circling back, re-addressing, clarifying, etc etc etc.

But your question -- why would Hooper say the same thing twice? -- defeats the entire purpose of this thread. If it's the same thing, then who cares?

Yeah, I'm always saying the exact same thing twice, just wording it differently.

Right, I am forever repeating the same idea twice, only with different words.

Amazing -- AP actually admits that Obama used to be Muslim in his childhood:

Obama Says Voters Curious on His Faith

IOWA FALLS, Iowa (AP) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Sunday he does not think voters have a litmus test on religion, whether evangelical Christianity or his childhood years in the Muslim faith.
"If your name is Barack Hussein Obama, you can expect it, some of that. I think the majority of voters know that I'm a member of the United Church of Christ, and that I take my faith seriously," Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.
"Ultimately what I think voters will be looking for is not so much a litmus test on faith as an assurance that a candidate has a value system and that is appreciative of the role that religious faith can play in helping shape people's lives," he said.
In the interview, Obama also said his race might be a "novelty" this early in the presidential contest, sparred with the prime minister of Australia over Iraq, and said he has a higher burden of proof with voters because of his relative inexperience. Obama formally announced his candidacy in Illinois on Saturday and made a beeline for Iowa, site of the first nominating contest next Jan. 14.
Obama's religious background has come under scrutiny because he attended a Muslim school in Indonesia from age 6 to 10. Obama, who was born in Hawaii, lived in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather from 1967 to 1971 and subsequently returned to Hawaii to live with his maternal grandparents.
Obama attends a Chicago church with his wife and two young daughters.

On a side note, regarding the quote in the middle that he "takes his faith seriously": that's completely bullhockey and he knows it, because in his own biography he admits that he doesn't really accept some fundamental Christian precepts (like regarding Jesus as his personal savior), and only joined his LLL church for political and community reasons, and because it "felt good."

Sorry, I don't have a link about his religious statement in his autobiography, but I flipped through the book and saw it with my own eyes.

Also, as several bloggers have already pointed out: once a Muslim, always a Muslim, and if he was a Muslim until he was 10 years old, then by definition he is now an apostate, deserving the death penalty, according to established shari'a law.

Cognito (#98),

Read my entire post.

OK.

So, did you bother to write to any of the involed parties for clarification or not?

OT

Iranians kill at least 170 U.S. Soldiers, wound over 600.

Faster please

More here

OT -

Did anybody see the article about Kim Jong-Il's son's arrival in Beijing from Macau? The guy looks like a hip hop artist.

FOX: North Korean Leader's Son Arrives in Beijing

And he's on the outs with Lil' Kim:

Intelligence analysts believe the 35-year-old Kim fell out of favor with his father, Kim Jong Il, North Korea's leader, after the son was caught traveling on a forged passport trying to enter Japan to visit Tokyo Disneyland in 2001.

Ibrahaim Pooper?

83 truthteller

You're right that LGF and its regulars spend a lot of time in conspiracy-theory mode about the MSM. Also right about CAIR, in the sense that CAIR and its evil-genius ability to play to the US mindset, and parasitically feed off the institutions of victimology and racism, are a much larger immediate threat than the MSM. However, the MSM's bias and its influence on peoples' opinions is a real long term problem, and if not the blogs to stand up to the MSM and try to get an alternative viewpoint, then who or what will do it?

I'm starting to think both CAIR and the MSM were feeling threatened and vulnerable by bloggers but, in the past year or two, have decided to just ignore and disparage the blogs, and have been largely successful, unfortunately. The MSM media has stepped up a bit (Beck, Fox News, etc.) but has a long way to go. The frequency with which we see AP, Reuters, or CAIR fire back on the blogs with "Yeah, well what do you expect from the crazy right-wing nuts" shows that they have evolved a new strategy for the battle.

#102 Cognito
It's not really a huge deal, I guess, but it is slightly disturbing to know that CAIR has pull on the AP. If stories like this continue to pile up, it's not going to be good for them. I hope we can agree on that!

99 freakagriep

Why would Ibrahim say almost the exact same thing two different times, using only slightly different wording?

Why is the sky blue?

101 gymnast,

Who are your heros? Who are your role models?

My -- ahem -- heroes are not particularly interesting in this setting, but I feel confident you'll explain why you're asking.

Even so, just for fun, I'd say my biggest extra-Biblical hero is C.S. Lewis. Other folks I admire are people like the unknown rebel -- unknown, as far as I know -- who stared down the tanks in Tiananmen Square, back in 1989. A man of real action. Politically I really admire a British dude named William Wilberforce. And so on and so forth.

Why?

104 Zombie

Well I say let Obama suck in all the idiot votes and wreck the Democrat's chances; the more he's featured the more the red flags will go up in the minds of most citizens of the USA.

Somebody should also ask Obama if he's worried that some islamics might consider him an apostate, and be gunning for him right now.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Partial

First, after she wrote a script for a film that depicted naked women with Quranic verses scrawled on their bodies, a Dutch-born Muslim gunned down the filmmaker, Theo van Gogh. A letter threatening Hirsi Ali was left on a knife plunged into van Gogh's chest.

Next, a fight within Hirsi Ali's political party over her Dutch citizenship brought down the government.

These days, Hirsi Ali is promoting her autobiography, "Infidel." It gives a graphic account of how she rejected her faith and the violence she says was inflicted on her in the name of Islam.

"I'm an apostate. That's why the book is called 'Infidel,'" she said in a telephone interview from New York.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations thinks Hirsi Ali's campaign amounts to slander and bigotry.

"We believe that contributes to a growing level of Muslim hatred in America," said the council's communications director, Ibrahim Hooper. "It is unfortunate that she had to bring that kind of hate from Europe to the United States."

Methinks dougie made a freudian slip (re: muslim hatred of apostates). The 'correction' turns his statement completely around, "clarifying" that Hirsi spreads hatred muslims, but would be correct if he said that Hirsi hates islam.

105 Geepers,

Again: Don't play dumb. Unless you're not playing.

I'm not here to commit journalism -- tracking down and contacting sources, etc -- I'm just having a good time discussing the issues about which Charles posts. My opinion, which is based on a fair bit of experience, led to post 94.

#96 Geepers

Ah, what we we do without Cognito to explain things to us, even though he wasn't there, and, apparently, hasn't written or spoken to anybody to was? He just knows how it really was, ya see, so we gotta take his word for it! Because he's got mental telepathy. Or something.

(Love the way he's dodging everybody's questions, by the way, and doing his best to derail the thread.)

#101 gymnast

I think it's pretty obvious cognito's heroe is the MSM, which he continually defends.

#115 cognito

But it's still just conjecture. Sorry, what you "feel" doesn't count.

correction

spreads hatred of muslims

115 & 117 TalkinKamel,

(Love the way he's dodging everybody's questions, by the way, and doing his best to derail the thread.)

Right. Which question did I dodge, if you don't mind reminding me? And how am I derailing this threat? -- by posting about the subject at hand? Seems to me you're the one leading it off-topic, by posting about me. Feel free to stop, and re-aim yourself at the topic.

But it's still just conjecture. Sorry, what you "feel" doesn't count.

I never said I was offering anything but conjecture. This is, believe it or not, a conversation. Not a courtroom. Or do you disallow opinions from everyone you speak with?

#106 Dar ul Harbarian

Iranians kill at least 170 U.S. Soldiers, wound over 600.

Faster please

You know, some people might misconstrue that.

/just sayin'

#83 truthteller,
#95 Cognito

CAIR is the real problem here, not the AP.

A free press is one of the first things which dictatorships close down. They ought to be the safeguard against corruption and anyone seeking to undermine our society.

It's a bit like having a corrupt police force and then saying that they aren't the problem, it's the criminals. Well if you fix the police force then they ought to be able to sort out the criminals.
An aggressive press expose could put an end to CAIR overnight.
If some of our politicians are on the Saudi payroll, then I have no doubt that a lot of newspaper editors are too. Who would you pay off if you were a Wahaabi prince with an agenda?

112 Cognito

Wilberforce was an English aristocrat. Dudes come from the American West.

A great person though, and too unknown.

121 bweep,

If some of our politicians are on the Saudi payroll, then I have no doubt that a lot of newspaper editors are too.

The very moment you figure out which editor is on the Saudi payroll, and can back it up with even a little evidence, let me know right away. That'll be big news in itself.

#112, cognito. Because knowledge of ones role models and modeling behavior helps understand the character of a person. Kind of like Muslims and Mohamed, if you know the character of the role model, it helps you judge the individual more accurately.

117 TalkinKamel

But it's still just conjecture. Sorry, what you "feel" doesn't count.

Ahem, this is a MB forum, if I am not mistaken unless we directly use links, which are frequently opinions based on real world facts, then opinions are what we have, or to exchange information about, isn't it?

122 Ojoe,

Yep, Wilberforce was a great guy, and too unknown. I think people are slowly coming around to his legacy, though.

Funny how there was a big point to ask about my heroes, and then absolutely no reaction to the answer, from the questioner.

Not sure why I'm surprised, really.

congito

You dodged all of them. And, since it is just conjecture, it's not worth discussing at great length, is it. Maybe there were two comments, maybe there weren't. The question this thread is asking is the AP whitewashing less than moderate comments by CAIR? Speculating as to whether there were one or more comments---especially when you weren't there, and haven't verified what was said with anyone who was there, is pointless, and a distraction.

BabbaZee was right about you. Whenever's the media's criticized, you show up with some lame defense, and twist everything around to try and tell us what a particular article REALLY said.

125 gymnast,

All right. So what did you learn about me from my answers?

128 TalkinKamel,

congito

You dodged all of them.

Cool. Name one.

127 Cognito

I like Elizabeth Tudor also.

Over and out for now.

119 Cognito

I never said I was offering anything but conjecture. This is, believe it or not, a conversation. Not a courtroom. Or do you disallow opinions from everyone you speak with?

Obviously, your post is 100% correct.

#124 Cognito

That'll be big news in itself.

And who will print it?

Charles, I sent you the Boston Globe version of this AP story yesterday, Feb 10 at 1:05 PM. I dob't know what time it first hit the web but the Globe's story didn't have either quote:

Critic of Islam finds new home in U.S.

WASHINGTON --As a child, Ayaan Hirsi Ali fled violence in Somalia with her family. As an adult she fled Kenya to escape an arranged marriage. She left her adopted Holland after she was caught up in political turmoil and had her life threatened.

[Link: www.boston.com...]

133 bweep,

And who will print it?

Someone will, I promise. A promise isn't worth much, maybe, but it doesn't matter, since the first step is to find the Saudi-editor conspiracy.

Cognito. Where do you think Wilberforce would have stood on dhimmitude? Do you think the press the AP has adopted some of the charicteristics of an institution subject to dhimmitude. Is dhimmitude a condition consistant with a society acceptive of slavery? Can a free press be dhimmi? Or is it a slave press? Or an oppresor press.?

#120 KB

You know, some people might misconstrue that.

eww.

I see what you mean. Not what I intended.

#126 David Schwartz

Given cognito's past history on threads critical of the media, yes, I would like something a bit more than what he "feels" happened, especially in this particular case---if CAIR is, indeed, pressuring the AP to whitewash certain comments, this is serious. Maybe it is just a case of the reportr, for whatever reason, chosing a milder re-statement of something that was said twice, but I'd like something more than the feelings of somebody who wasn't there before making up my mind on this---especially when he, himself admits it's just conjecture.

First, practically anything the AP prints should be subject to suspicion as a result of their anti-American / leftist view with regard to any issue involving Islam, which is endemic to much of their work. Ample examples of AP spin have been documented here and elsewhere by anti-idiotarians. In other words, when dealing with the AP we are dealing with a serial, repeat offender who is totally unrepentant and who has an proven abject character.

Second, concerning motives of change in the quotes, one would have to be willfully ignorant not perceive why CAIR might wish the first quote changed.

"We believe that contributes to a growing level of Muslim hatred in America," said the council's communications director, Ibrahim Hooper. "It is unfortunate that she had to bring that kind of hate from Europe to the United States."

Altering "Muslim hatred" to "anti-Muslim bias" is quite a distinct change in language: the former being quite crude and ineffective in appealing to most people's sensitivity in expressing the 'oppression' Muslims experience in America. It could almost offend people in the center with its exaggerated language. "Muslim hatred" sounds distinctly demagogic.

As is often the case, this AP journalist would, we can reasonably assume based on their previous work, enthusiastically wish to promote the agenda of CAIR, which is to present the image of America as an intolerant, bigoted-against-Muslims society. This latter point is in fact brought out clearly in the second, altered quotation:

"We believe that she will bring an increase to the level of anti-Muslim bias in this country that we saw her bring to the situation in Europe," the council's communications director, Ibrahim Hooper, said in an interview Saturday. "Unfortunately her message is one of bigotry, not one of mutual understanding."

The message here from CAIR, and which is actively promoted by the AP's changing of the quote, is self-evident to people who know CAIR and other radical Muslims' modus operandi: 'Muslims are the ones who want tolerance and understanding, which is what Islam is all about, while American society is often intolerant and bigoted, especially to Muslims. We are the victims; you are the evil oppressors and occupiers.'

I don't know the facts on how this quote came to be changed, but the reasons for the AP why the would purposefully deceive us and for why they actually would alter the quotes are quite plain, as I have shown.

#139 make that "why the"

136 gymnast,

Cognito. Where do you think Wilberforce would have stood on dhimmitude? Do you think the press the AP has adopted some of the charicteristics of an institution subject to dhimmitude. Is dhimmitude a condition consistant with a society acceptive of slavery? Can a free press be dhimmi? Or is it a slave press? Or an oppresor press.?

Whoa! Tell you what: Instead of playing a little game about William Wilberforce, I'll just tell you what I think:

I think the American press is in big trouble. They've allowed a certain leftist viewpoint to permeate throughout the entire infrastructure. That viewpoint makes it hard for them -- and academics, while we're at it -- to make a stand against anything. Radical Islam being one of those things. So until the people of the press and academia shake themselves awake -- or are shaken awake -- the creeping infusion will continue.

Or do you really want me to speculate on what a long-dead British politician I admire might say?

The first quote comes from an AP article written by William C. Mann and entitled “Critic of Islam finds new home in U.S.” that moved on the wire at 2:05 a.m. The second is from an AP article by the same author with the same title that moved at 10:14 a.m. I compared the text of the first story to the text of the second side by side in MS Word and the two are completely identical except for the CAIR quote.

So, after eight hours on the wire the author suddenly decides that, you know what, I used the wrong Hooper quote.

Yeah, right.

/the two quotes have the same overall meaning but the second one makes CAIR look better because it omits the two instances of the word hate

David Schwartz

For instance, in Post #124, look at the snide way he dismisses the point bweep raises, in #121, about the possibility of Saudi bribery and/or pressure being applied to the AP:

"The very moment you figure out which editor is on the Saudi payroll, and can back it up with even a little evidence, let me know right away. That'll be big news in itself."

It's okay for cognito to speculate about what was said in aninterview he wasn't present at, but he immediately squashes what seems to me to be a very reasonable question about the possibility of Saudi influence in the media.

Cognito will say anything to protect the media.

138 TalkinKamel,

Given cognito's past history on threads critical of the media, yes, I would like something a bit more than what he "feels" happened, especially in this particular case

No offense, but this is absurd on its face. Or will you apply this standard across the board? Will you stop commenting with opinions on events you didn't personally witness?

Because a requirement of first-hand description is going to, you know, put a real dent in blogging in general.

Still waiting for you to name a question I've 'dodged.'

Oh here we go again. chapter 4317.

The Fallaci Code
Written by BRENDAN BERNHARD
Oriana Fallaci asks: Is Muslim immigration to Europe a conspiracy?
How did Europe become home to an estimated 20 million Muslims in a mere three decades?

How did Islam go from being a virtual non-factor to a religion that threatens the preeminence of Christianity on the Continent? How could the most popular name for a baby boy in Brussels possibly be Mohammed? Can it really be true that Muslims plan to build a mosque in London that will hold 40,000 people? That Dutch cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam are close to having Muslim majorities? How was Europe, which was saved by the U.S. in world wars I and II, and whose Muslim Bosnians were rescued by the U.S. as recently as 1999, transformed into a place in which, as Fallaci puts it, “if I hate Americans I go to Heaven and if I hate Muslims I go to Hell?”

In attempting to answer these questions, the author, who is stricken with cancer and has been hounded by death threats and charges of “Islamophobia” (she is due to go on trial in France this June), has combined history with episodes of riveting firsthand reportage into a form that reads like a real-life conspiracy thriller.

If The Force of Reason sells a lot of copies, which it almost certainly will (800,000 were sold in Italy alone, and the book is in the top 100 on Amazon ), it will be not only because of the heat generated by her topic, but also because Fallaci speaks for the ordinary reader. There is no one she despises more than the intellectual “cicadas,” as she calls them — “You see them every day on television; you read them every day in the newspapers” — who deny they are in the midst of a cultural, political and existential war with Islam, of which terrorism is the flashiest, but ultimately least important component. Nonetheless, to give the reader a taste of what Muslim conquest can be like, in her first chapter, Fallaci provides a brief tour of the religion’s bloodiest imperial episodes and later does an amusing job of debunking some of its more exaggerated claims to cultural and scientific greatness.

The book is also animated by a world-class journalist’s dismay that she could have missed the story of her lifetime for as long as she did. In the 1960s and ’70s, when she was a Vietnam War correspondent and a legendarily ferocious interviewer going mano a mano with the likes of Henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat, Fallaci was simply too preoccupied with the events of the moment to notice that an entirely different narrative was rapidly taking shape — namely, the transformation of the West. There were clues, certainly. As when, in 1972, she interviewed the Palestinian terrorist George Habash, who told her (while a bodyguard aimed a submachine gun at her head) that the Palestinian problem was about far more than Israel. The Arab goal, Habash declared, was to wage war “against Europe and America” and to ensure that henceforth “there would be no peace for the West.” The Arabs, he informed her, would “advance step by step. Millimeter by millimeter. Year after year. Decade after decade. Determined, stubborn, patient. This is our strategy. A strategy that we shall expand throughout the whole planet.”

Fallaci thought he was referring simply to terrorism. Only later did she realize that he “also meant the cultural war, the demographic war, the religious war waged by stealing a country from its citizens … In short, the war waged through immigration, fertility, presumed pluriculturalism.” It is a low-level but deadly war that extends across the planet, as any newspaper reader can see.

As that Norwegian Mullah told Aftenposten, “Our way of thinking … will prove more powerful than yours.” One hopes he’s wrong, but if he is, it will be ordinary Americans and Europeans, including courageous Arab-Americans like L.A. resident Wafa Sultan and the Somali-born Dutch politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali (two women openly challenging Islamist supremacism),

[Link: www.laweekly.com...]

#145 mama winger

Oh here we go again. chapter 4317.

/it's like finely tuned Swiss clockwork

143 TalkinKamel,

I didn't dismiss bweep's comment in the least. I took it very seriously: The moment he or she -- or anyone -- finds any evidence of such a thing as Saudi bribery within the American media, it'll be a bombshell.

No dismissal whatsoever.

Mama Winger, and

Killian,

Just curious: Which finely tuned clock is that?

Chapter 4318

"How I learned to love the Bomb, and the MSM"

Mana mana

#141, cognito. Thank you for thinking about it. The questions would be best answered at this time by a PhD level researchers work or perhaps a legitimate investigation by the press. Haven't seen much work by journalists lately that would pass a rigorous orals exam. Haven't seen much wisdom from the academy/vocational schools lately either.

138 TalkinKamel

Given cognito's past history on threads critical of the media, yes, I would like something a bit more than what he "feels" happened, especially in this particular case---if CAIR is, indeed, pressuring the AP to whitewash certain comments, this is serious. Maybe it is just a case of the reportr, for whatever reason, chosing a milder re-statement of something that was said twice, but I'd like something more than the feelings of somebody who wasn't there before making up my mind on this---especially when he, himself admits it's just conjecture.

You're preaching to the choir. I agree it is only one man's opinion. I don't think he presented it any other way.

The point that I was trying to make, is that this is also a forum for facts and opinions, and sometimes that line gets blurred by everybody.

It's sort of akin to asking Dougie if he thinks hezballah is a terrorist organization.

Running laps for exercise.

153 Geepers,

It's sort of akin to asking Dougie if he thinks hezballah is a terrorist organization.

Running laps for exercise.

I assume, from context and your previous comments, that you're referring to the question gymnast asked about the press. To which I answered:

I think the American press is in big trouble. They've allowed a certain leftist viewpoint to permeate throughout the entire infrastructure. That viewpoint makes it hard for them -- and academics, while we're at it -- to make a stand against anything. Radical Islam being one of those things. So until the people of the press and academia shake themselves awake -- or are shaken awake -- the creeping infusion will continue.

Does anyone know who the current (new) Saudi Ambassador to the US is? Does anyone know his background in buying influence with the press? Does the name Al Jubeir mean anything to anyone? Do gold Rolex Oysters fall in his wake?

154 addendum,

Geepers -- so my question is, do you disagree with my answer? Or are you 'running laps' without a point?

Cognito (#154),

Who pays you to post here?

Well don't get the idea that I'm one of the people here trying to get on your case. This was in the news in the UK last month. So I know I'm not imagining things, and it can't all be politically motivated. We get all sorts of theories here. Cold hard Petrodollars seem like the most obvious reason to me.

The BBC has spent thousands of pounds of licence payers' money trying to block the release of a report which is believed to be highly critical of its Middle East coverage.

The corporation is mounting a landmark High Court action to prevent the release of The Balen Report under the Freedom of Information Act, despite the fact that BBC reporters often use the Act to pursue their journalism.

The action will increase suspicions that the report, which is believed to run to 20,000 words, includes evidence of anti-Israeli bias in news programming.

155 gymnast

Does anyone know who the current (new) Saudi Ambassador to the US is? Does anyone know his background in buying influence with the press? Does the name Al Jubeir mean anything to anyone? Do gold Rolex Oysters fall in his wake?

I do know that the Saudi Prince that offered Rudolph Giuliani 10 Million USD after 9/11 gave the money to the Carter Center instead. Writing anti-Israel screed and perfidy, is much easier obtained by ex-Presidents for sale like Jimmah:

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Mayor Rudy Giuliani said Thursday the city would not accept a $10 million donation for disaster relief from Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal after the prince suggested U.S. policies in the Middle East contributed to the September 11 attacks.

[Link: archives.cnn.com...]

Cognito. What do you think of the new Saudi Ambassador to the United States and his career of influencing the American press prior to accepting his current appointment from the same government that has bankrolled CAIR?

157 Geepers,

Cognito (#154),

Who pays you to post here?

The Saudis do.

Boy, I can't get enough of that Jihadi money. I keep it in my right pocket, so it doesn't get in fights with the Zionist money in my left pocket.

160 Gymnast,

What do you think of the new Saudi Ambassador to the United States and his career of influencing the American press prior to accepting his current appointment from the same government that has bankrolled CAIR?

I'm not aware of any Saudis influencing the American press. Bweep mentioned editors on the Saudi payroll, but that would be astonishing.

If you're talking about CAIR -- well, I don't like CAIR, but any fool can send out press releases.

#159, David Swartz. Did you know that the head of the General Electric Corporation was in Riyadh last week having discussions with Prince Al Walid bin Talal bin Abdul Aziz. GE was inviting the Prince to to invest through his Kingdom Holding Group. Which networks and news interests are GE subsidiaries? GE builds power plants. All kinds of power plants. Why did I have to read about this in the Arab News instead of the Wall Street Journal?

#163, cognito. You did not answer my question. Are you fucking dense? Say "I don't know" when you haven't a fucking clue as to what you think you are talking about. You are treading water in a very deep pool.

A man is driving down the road and breaks down near a monastery. He goes to the monastery, knocks on the door, and says,
"My car broke down. Do you think I could stay the night?"
The monks graciously accept him, feed him dinner, even fix his car. As the man tries to fall asleep, he hears a strange sound. A sound not like anything he's ever heard before. The Sirens that nearly seduced Odysseus into crashing his ship comes to his mind.
He doesn't sleep that night. He tosses and turns trying to figure out what could possibly be making such a seductive sound.

The next morning, he asks the monks what the sound was, but they say, "We can't tell you. You're not a monk." Distraught, the man is forced to leave.
Years later, after never being able to forget that sound, the man goes back to the monastery and pleads for the answer again.
The monks reply,
"We can't tell you. You're not a monk."
The man says,
"If the only way I can find out what is making that beautiful sound is to become a monk, then please, make me a monk."
The monks reply,
"You must travel the earth and tell us how many blades of grass there are and the exact number of grains of sand When you find these answers, you will have
become a monk."
The man sets about his task. After years of searching he returns and knocks on the door of the monastery.
"I have traveled the earth and have found what you have asked for: By design, the world is in a state of perpetual change. Only God knows what you ask.
All a man can know is himself, and only then if he is honest and reflective and willing to strip away self deception."
The monks reply,
"Congratulations. You are now a monk.
We shall now show you the way to the mystery of the sound."
The monks lead the man to a wooden door, where the head monk says,
"The sound is beyond that door."
The monks give him the key, and he opens the door.
Behind the wooden door is another door made of stone.
The man is given the key to the stone door and he opens it, only to find a door made of ruby. And so it went that he needed keys to doors of emerald, gold and
diamond. Finally, the monks say,
"This is the last key to the last door."
The man is apprehensive to no end. His life's wish is behind the door!
He unlocks the door, turns the knob, and behind that door he is utterly amazed to find the source of that haunting and seductive sound................ But I can't tell you what it is because you're not a monk.

166 gymnast,

#163, cognito. You did not answer my question. Are you fucking dense? Say "I don't know" when you haven't a fucking clue as to what you think you are talking about. You are treading water in a very deep pool.

Calm down, man. You asked,

What do you think of the new Saudi Ambassador to the United States and his career of influencing the American press prior to accepting his current appointment from the same government that has bankrolled CAIR?

And I answered:

I'm not aware of any Saudis influencing the American press.

Which I thought answered your question. "I'm not aware of any such thing." But if it'll keep your blood pressure and your cursing in check, I'm happy to say "I don't know."

As for,

You are treading water in a very deep pool.

With all due respect, no I'm not. I'm posting comments on a blog. Big deal. It's all in fun and interest.

169 taxfreekiller,

Yo, Cog, show us some links to Lt. Kerry's full Navy Records over on Tim Russert's blog.

Ah, taxfreekiller. So glad to see you're still alive and kicking. How are you?

#159 DavidJSchwartz

ex-Presidents for sale like Jimmah:

To be honest, I don't believe for a second that Jimmy Carter writes anti-semitic bile because he was paid by the Saudis or anyone else.

I think he'd do it for free because it is how he really thinks, and the money just flows from there.

I propose a new acronym.

He Who Is Physically Incapable Of Letting Any Post Go Without Getting The Last Word.

HWIPIOLAPGWGTLW

/yawn

Cognito. Sorry, I come from a tough neiborhood where a slight is responded to in kind. Do a web search on "Adel Al Jubeir" and "Saudi Ambassador to the United States Al Jubeir" ----no tuition charge. If you do the searches you will smell the smoke and see the flames. If you are a Journalist you can write a story about the spread of the fire. If you are a plant, you can grow leaves.

It's pretty clear to me that those going after Cognito have their minds made up about what happened with the mysterious quote and are unable to see that, based on what we know, there are several possibilities.

A. Both quotes are genuine and the journalist swapped the quote because he liked the second one better.

B. The journalist knocked out the first version of his story using his notes and then went back over a recording and replaced it with an accurate quote.

C. Some evil (and pedantic) editor on a Saudi prince's payroll noticed the difference in tone between the two quotes and swooped down with a red pencil to save Hooper's reputation.

D. The AP and CAIR are in cahoots, and in fact Hooper writes all their stories that have anything to do with Islam.

While I can understand the frustration people here have about the tendency of much of the media to gloss over the perils of Islamism, and to give CAIR a free ride, for example by not questioning their dubious claim to being a civil rights group, I also think we need to set the bar for media scrutiny a little higher. Why dabble in pure conspiracy theory when there's so much real bias to complain about? Presuming the AP to be guilty until proven innocent only plays into CAIR's hands by allowing them to characterize legitimate scrutiny of their words as the deranged frothing of a mob with its mind already made up. There's also the issue of missing the forest for the trees that I alluded to earlier.

gymnast (#174),

If you are a plant, you can grow leaves.

I'm totally stealing that.

And BTW my dad used to run the turbine-generator plant in Schenectady. Got some cool old Polaroids of them things.

#163 Cognito

Bweep mentioned editors on the Saudi payroll, but that would be astonishing.

It wouldn't be that astonishing. This is what George Galloway MP said on Al Jazeera.

Galloway on Al Jazeerah

"You know, I don't want to embarrass any particular Arab ruler, but once I spoke to a prince. I told him there were three British newspapers on sale for 100 million pounds - The Daily Express, The Sunday Express, and The Daily Star. Three important newspapers. 'Why don't you buy them,' I said. 'You could make a foothold for a decent point of view on the Arab world, if you were to buy these newspapers.' He could have bought them, but he didn't have the courage to buy them. He'd rather spend the money on other things. You know, in London, there is enough money thrown onto the roulette tables of London's casinos by Arabs, which could buy media in America and Britain, and transform the landscape. But I tell you, the good news is this: In the desert, just a few drops of water can transform the landscape. All we need is a few drops of water, because the American and British people have no faith, no trust, in their leaders. They know that the policy of their leaders is leading them to disaster. We need to intelligently apply the resources that we have, and people can contact me, to my e-mail, through my website, georgegalloway.com. I have many ideas on how we can do this. I just don't have any money

#177 buzzsawmonkey

I have seen lots of posts dumping on him (I am assuming "him," and will use the pronoun for convenience), but for the most part they boil down to a threshold hostility because he has been honest enough to admit that he works for some element of the MSM in some capacity--and, speaking from that experience, has had the temerity to point out that the failings of the MSM often result from inertia, laziness, received wisdom, groupthink, or shared assumptions--and that these human failings, while they often have a malevolent effect, do not necessarily spring from malevolent intent.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

truthteller (#176),

I'll resist idle speculation and wait until the AP tells me the reason for their changing the quote without explanation.

Maybe Jamal Hussein will tell us why they switched things about.

And if not, at least I can expect Kathleen Carrol to tell me to piss off for daring to question the AP.

And if you want to read and believe which ever damn quote, not a quote, changed, edited, censored, misreported, mistranslated or outright piece of crap the AP tells you if currently "truth", you go right ahead.

#181 Geepers

I'll resist idle speculation and wait until the AP tells me the reason for their changing the quote without explanation.

After 8 hours out on the wire.

/and the only change being favorable to CAIR, removing the word hate (twice) from Hooper's quote

Even Cognito admits that the MSM is heavily biased to the left. There's not much room for credibility with such a marked slant, is there?

#176 truthteller

Presuming the AP to be guilty until proven innocent only plays into CAIR's hands by allowing them to characterize legitimate scrutiny of their words as the deranged frothing of a mob with its mind already made up.

Deranged frothing of a mob? I think you're being a little dramatic. In fact, it kind of sounds like you're trying to --oh, I don't know -- make critics of the MSM look bad? Yes?

OT: But, I'm sure CAIR-Canada had a hand in it.

Muslim women visit Quebec town to address contentious code

"We came here to confirm and affirm that we are Quebecers too," said May Haider, one of the Muslim women from the Montreal area.

"And we have the right to be stoned to death!"

/ok...I made the last line up.

What a joke. If you are Quebecers like you say you are, then what really is the problem?

here's the link

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

#141 Cog

That viewpoint makes it hard for them -- and academics, while we're at it -- to make a stand against anything.

While we are at it? What makes you think academics care to make a stand on anything other than their leftest bent?

cognito.....I did not know that there was an English version of Dred Scot..thank you.

Haven't had the pleasure of wishing Dougie Hooper and his band of thugs at CAIR a heartfelt FOAD for a while now.

Dougie, FOAD.

#176 truthteller

From the possibilities you raise, especially C & D, it sounds as though you imagine yourself to be addressing gathering to an audience of utter ignoramuses.

Perhaps in the flourish of condescension you left out a few much more obvious possibilities, such as the one Charles himself suggested? I can think of other more plausible suggestions as well.

Pretty hilarious handle, BTW.

Er... make that "addressing a gathering"