Islam is not a race, dammit!

Islam is not a religion, either. It's a political totalitarian ideology under a thinly veiled pretense of an organized "pieceful" religion.

Muslim leaders say removal from MN flight based on race, religion

OK. Conceded.

Crashing planes into the WTC and Pentagon and almost the Capitol was based on race and religion.

Will you concede?

Damages must be astronomical. Not. CAIR has too much money. It's time for some terror victims to put them out of business.

www.homelandsecurityus.com

Yawn.

One can only hope there will be countersuits by US Airways and the passengers for losses incurred because of the antics of the (non) flying imams.

I can't believe they really want this to go to trial. Do they really want all of those passengers, including the Arabic speaker who overheard them, going on the stand testifying about the intentionally bizarre and threatening behavior of the imams?

I think they're thinking U.S. Airways will settle (westerners being weak and all), and then they'll be able to claim victory.

I guess cair is all too aware that AIPAC is having a huge conference right now in D.C., huh? Smooth move, guys. You've sure got your feet in somebody's door on the Hill. Spit!

If the Dhimmis and Congress go along with this at the press conference, I'll abandon any hope that I might have had for this country. The way we're acting, if we had another 911, we'd have to apologize to these bozos for putting a building in front of their flight path.
It appears that we'll PC ourselves into both an early grave and a state of dhimmihood.
What will it take to wake us up to the threat that hovers over us?

Who has press conferences to file paperwork for a lawsuit?

and how do they get all this free press anyway? They have a "bat phone" to the MSM?

why is Ellison spokesman to Islam for us?

cair doesn't even take up causes that are close to inching to their goal..they take up causes that look and smell funny. Kind of stupid on their part. Atleast the aclu hid their agenda till it was too late for us to wake up.

Keep making dumb moves like this cair, you only expose yourself more and more. I just hope you keep putting dumb people on tv so we can laugh without turning on comedy central.

Three of the imams are scheduled to attend CAIR’s news conference and read a prepared statement

Will it include Allah Ackbar?

I'm curious. Are the Imams walking there to the press conference in DC? I mean, with this all-encompassing and pervasive bias, there's no way the poor souls could ever be let on an airplane, right?

#4 Beagle

See my comment on the previous post. It seems that they are not the only ones who can threaten lawsuits.

This is beyond annoying. It's all over the #@$&*&^$ internet, reading how "islam" is somehow a fricken race! WTF! And now these jerks are suing the airline! What a bunch of victim-centered creeps. F*ck y*u Hooper!

I think they're going to wish they hadn't done this. I know they're hoping to extract cash and concessions. I don't think they're going to get either.

Sorry, flying imams, you break the airliner's rules, you suffer the consequences, regardless of religious preferences. Black and white case. You lose.

Now, can US Airways counter-sue? And the passengers inconvenienced by these creeps?

American Muslim imam's must be reading Jesse Jackson's playbook: agitate, agitate, agitate.

Expect more of this B*llshi*t for the next fifty years.

OT:

Dear Lizeroids,

Why is there no photos of the young (23 yr old) woman/mother arrested for Terrorism with her baby and husband? I searched the web for "Barucha Al Hor" (I actually had the correct spelling when searching, don't know if that is the case in this post) and couldn't find any actual photos. Does anybody know of a link or at least have seen photos of her? I would very much appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

8 Cordy 3/12/2007 03:17PM PDT

I can't believe they really want this to go to trial. Do they really want all of those passengers, including the Arabic speaker who overheard them, going on the stand testifying about the intentionally bizarre and threatening behavior of the imams?

They figure out how to exclude those people from testifying.

I think they're thinking U.S. Airways will settle (westerners being weak and all), and then they'll be able to claim victory.

Most likely. You figure when lawyers get a piece of the pie as large as this, it's full steam ahead regardless of facts or justice. Gawd I hope US Airways doesn't cave. Caving in to me undermines the spirit of our justice system.

IowaInfidel: Now, can US Airways counter-sue? And the passengers inconvenienced by these creeps?

Now that's a thought! If we can find people who were on the airline with the flying imams willing to sue those idiots for inconvenience, fear, anxiety and mental distress?

Time to contact US airways again and give them our support:

[Link: www.usairways.com...]

Everybody fly US Airways-the victimhood seeking, terror supporting Mohammedans will likely boycott. It'll be the safest airline around.

look surge this, I am all for backing the troops, but Mr Fitztgerald says

the best lie is the truth...spencer? nothing new here eh?

For everyone who says Islam is not a religion:

From the dictionary:

re·li·gion
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.
religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8.
Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

So why isn't Islam a religion?

I got your grievance right here!

Hey, Ibby!

To paraphrase the first 25+ seconds: "This is a group that comes on television suing American corporations for the mistreatment of Muslims. But, if you look at the...they were aiding terrorists a long time ago.
Walid Shoebat

The imams say their removal from the flight was based on racism and religious intolerance.

Since they're imams they should be well acquainted with racism and religious intolerance being that that is what they preach.

This strange behavior by the imams may have been staged in order to cause alert fatigue, or in order to bring this lawsuit as a step toward preventing the profiling of jihaditerrorists. The Islamist front organizations that are close to the lawsuit or close to the imams should be required to turn over records of their communications, including by phone and by email, in order to discover whether this was a set up job.

Also, here are some comments by Michelle Malkin, concerning terrorist connections and neo-terrorist activity, that should be brought out in the trial.

www.michellemalkin.com/archives/006427.htm

Will they mention Shahin's admitted ties to Osama bin Laden and denial of the 9/11 al Qaeda plot?

Or his connection to a Hamas-linked terror charity front?

Will they mention Mahdi Bray's terror-sympathizing statements and stances?

Or the Muslim American Society's radical embrace of sharia and faux pose as the "moderate" front for the Muslim Brotherhood? (My debate on Laura Ingraham's radio show with one of the double-talking MAS spokesmen here.)

#25 the_flying_pig 3/12/2007 03:23PM PDT

IowaInfidel: Now, can US Airways counter-sue? And the passengers inconvenienced by these creeps?

Now that's a thought! If we can find people who were on the airline with the flying imams willing to sue those idiots for inconvenience, fear, anxiety and mental distress?

If it goes to court and the imams are found to willingly disrupt the flight, there could be criminal penalties, too. I'd be willing to contribute to a fund to round the passengers up to help with expenses to get them to trial. Any way we can fight islamonazis, we need to do it.

re #33, another try at the link
[Link: www.michellemalkin.com...]

#19 Dianna

I think you pretty much got it. US airways is on very solid ground, and doesn't have any exposure, because they were following laws and regs.

Notice that CAIR is simply publicizing this, though, and isn't a party to the suit. Still, there's enough dirty underwear to be discovered with these imams, I think by the time they're done, it'll end with a secret settlement where nobody gets anything.

In the end, this is some cheap publicity, so the moonbats can claim in perpetuity that they sued US airways, and got something.

#29 - Okay you have 8 criteria there. islam has another criteria which precludes it from being any sort of religion. "slay the unbeleivers, wherever you find them" . Find another religion with this dogma.

so they set up a sting operation basically and cry about it, exactly as planned... its time to stop being suckers and smash islam. They've been testing the west to see what cowards we are and how easy it is to intimate us through --- fear! Islamiaphobia.

This may be a very important case because it may be used to support legislation to make it unlawful to have profiling of jihaditerrorist suspects.

I agree with #19 Dianna.

CAIR will rue the day for filing this. The only thing they are going to win in the long run is the unsympathetic backhand across the yellow teeth of Islam from the American public; at least the American public that counts for anything.

29 Odinist

So why isn't Islam a religion?

often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Is beating your wife moral? Is raping your wife moral? Is killing others because they have a different religion moral? Is killing people who leave your religion moral? Is forcing people to do things they way your religion says they should moral?

/I could go on

Yes, I agree and call for a complete Muslim boycott of US Airways. Please, never, ever fly this airline. If you are a good Muslim, it is your duty to shun them. Please.

Living in Pittsburgh, I am a very frequent US Airways flier. Nothing would make me happier than a complete boycott by the ROP.

The imams say their removal from the flight was based on racism and religious intolerancethe fact that nobody has blown up planes but Muslims in the past 30 years.

There ,, I fixed and and am now glad some imams finally told the truth !

I'm sure that everyone here knows about anti-cair, but I just noticed in the right sidebar that there is a CAIR Watch site also. Maybe I've just missed it, but I've never seen mention of this site.

Also, concerning filing lawsuits, I'm having trouble digging up past LGF posts on CAIR's filing of nearly 1,000 bogus complaints with the FBI (I think in a year and a half time span). This was around 2003, IIRC, so who knows what the total number has been since then. Does anyone have a link to that article.

Discovery is very important. The records of the imams and their associates should be open to discovery to determine if they were put up to do this imitation of jihaditerrorists, in order to bring a lawsuit.

Odinist:

You had to rattle the emotionalists' cage again huh?

Trying to convince a Righty that Islam is a religion (ableit a violent one) is like trying to convince a Lefty that Islam could be a existential threat to the U.S.

good luck!

#40 goodbye_natalie

It didn't say that CAIR filed it. They'd be stupid to expose themselves like that. They're probably paying the legal costs, but they themselves, as far as I can see, aren't a party to the suit.

Why don't they just go live in Islamic countries?

It's that simple.

#45 EE

Right. And the mosques, and their connections, and...

The rabbi & I are flying to Amsterdam in a couple weeks on a flight out of DTW.

Who wants to bet we will be singled out for "special attention" while the babes (& boys) in burqas just slide on through?

I asked this question on another thread a few days ago but then my router closed the magic window to LGF and I couldn't load the site for about 37 hours.

They're just trying to make up for their bad cair day.

Bringing it to court should prove most interesting. In a civil suit all kinds of information can be brought out, which would also prove of interest.

What took them so long to bring it to court? Most professional victims have court preceedings instituted within days.

I think they're hoping for a settlement to avoid "bad" publicity, as noted above. And they'd like to get anti-profiling legislation, sponsored by Ellison and Conyers no doubt. But the fact is this is a classic bug as feature. Who wants to fly if suspicious imams setting up blocking positions and asking for seat belts as weapons don't get attention? Only someone hoping for "martyrdom" along with them.

E2M,

#40 goodbye_natalie

It didn't say that CAIR filed it. They'd be stupid to expose themselves like that. They're probably paying the legal costs, but they themselves, as far as I can see, aren't a party to the suit.

That is a legitimate point E2M. Okay, I retract the previous statement and say only this:

CAIR will rue the day for filing announcing and supporting this. The only thing they are going to win in the long run is the unsympathetic backhand across the yellow teeth of Islam from the American public; at least the American public that counts for anything.

I should note that it is extremely important that we call any reporters who write on this case and make sure that they're aware of the number of CAIR officials who've been busted for aiding terrorism.

#41 Sharmuta

'Often containing a moral code...'

Not all religions are what you would consider moral, yet they are still religions by definition...

50 Alouette:

have fun explaining to the guy in Holland what those two small sealed black boxes are.

(had a friend have this problem...what do you do when they tell you to open them up?)

Muslim leaders say removal from MN flight based on race, religion

Ah, so Islam is a race, eh?

Funny thing is, it is unviersally taught in schools around the country that "race does not exist," and that it's nothing but a "social construct."

So -- will the looney-toon PC educators that control our schools whine that CAIR is claiming race exists?

#48 NoSubmission

They believe that Allah gave them the world. They believe every country is their country.

#46 WrathofG-d
I almost jumped in, but thought better of it. I have work to do.

The imams say their removal from the flight was based on racism and religious intolerance.

WRONG your removal you dumba**s was becuase rational people don't like having their airplanes turned into missiles.

#46 WrathofG-d

LOL! I had to at least try, though...

Very responsible of Kiley to resign...too bad he might not have done his job at WR. Irresponsible testimony though

Islam isn't a religion, it's a cult..a death cult to be exact.

Watch films on the deprogramming of cult members and you begin to see the difference. I can see why non religious people would not see the difference.

I don't rely on the dictionary to decide the differences I've seen between a religion and a cult...period.

56 Odinist:

Even more simply. Although Islam might not have the same MORAL code as you...it has its own (im)moral code.

just remember kids: Not all religions were created equal! {Some where started by a pacifist, others by a wonderer, & others by a Scimitar weilding warrior.}

56 Odinist

Not all religions are what you would consider moral, yet they are still religions by definition...

So tell me the difference between a religion and a cult then.

Muslim leaders say removal from MN flight based on race, religion

It is plainly obvious to anybody with a copuple of brain cells between their ears that these 6 dickheads were removed from the flight because their actions prior to boarding, and whilst on board, led those responsible for the flight's security to believe that continuing the flight with the aforementioned 6 dickheads on board could have serious safety implications for the other travellers.

That is why they were removed. QED.

Secondly. It is also plainly obvious that these 6 dickheads set out to get thrown off the flight, and/or arrested. Presumably to desensitise in-flight security personnel to rabid muslim behaviour, and/or to make it easier for not so outrageous behaviour to slip under the radar.

The long and the short of it is that CAIR seems to think that the average John Doe American can't see through their shit.

CAIR may be in for a small surprise

#8 Cordy

I can't believe they really want this to go to trial. Do they really want all of those passengers, including the Arabic speaker who overheard them, going on the stand testifying about the intentionally bizarre and threatening behavior of the imams?

I think they're thinking U.S. Airways will settle (westerners being weak and all), and then they'll be able to claim victory.

That's exactly what they're aiming at. This suit is an

absolute loser

if it were ever to go to trial.

/lawsuits like this are the perfect argument in favor of a "loser pays" system for attorney's fees

Wel then, I guess I have to file this under: "Project Much?"

Are you a professional failure? Are your bills catching up with you? Are you low on cash? Do you have a hard time finding a real job? Are you having hard time keeping up with the Joneses?

No more worries. Your hardships are gone. I have the right solution for you.
Just become a Muslim basher and all your financial and low self-esteem troubles will be gone.

No college degrees required. No intelligence required (Low IQ preferred). No integrity required (Lack of integrity preferred). No past experience required, "they" will train you.

Your new career will open up great opportunities such as paid speaking tours, meeting with fellow bigots and Islamophobes, paid trips to Israel and staying at nice hotels, bogus PhD, book sales, consulting fees to be on media show, and much more.

Send your resume and your sample Muslim bashing material to Daniel Pipes, Robert Spencer, Steven Emerson, Virgil Goode, Dennis Prager, among many others. They are the authority on Islamophobia. They fuel it.

That's from the website of Hussam Ayloush, Southern California Executive Director of CAIR. It is followed by an attack on Wafa Sultan, claiming she "sold her soul."

#59 phoenixgirl

They believe that Allah gave them the world. They believe every country is their country.

Funny. It is haram for a muslim to even set foot in a non-islamic country.

60 Killgore Trout

I almost jumped in, but thought better of it.

Why didn't I think of that?!

#29 Odinist

According to dozens of Islamic websites, and Islamic tradition, Islam is a complete way of life from politics to going to the bathroom. Islam is a religion, but much more than that, up to a system of government and legal system. So calling Islam a religion is true but missing the point.

Islam is not a religion in the common, distorted meaning of the word, confining its scope only to the private life of man. By saying that it is a complete way of life, we mean that it caters for all the fields of human existence. In fact, Islam provides guidance for all walks of life – individual and social, material and moral, economic and political, legal and cultural, national and international.

"Islam is a portable theocratic state" according to one author. That's the best short definition there is, IMO.

#57 WrathofG-D

The rabbi will already have some 'splainin' to do about the suitcase full of drugs (diabetes meds) he's carrying.

Anyway, we are not staying in Amsterdam, we are taking a connecting flight to Moscow. Should be interesting.

I wonder if I will be able to connect to LGF while in the Russian Federation?

For everyone who says Islam is not a religion:

From the dictionary:

re·li·gion
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

What moral code in Islam? They do not consider people who are NOT muslim as subhuman.

2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

Just old Mo, what "group"?

3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

What world council? Is there an Imam or mullah school anywhere? Bueller?

4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

Monks and nuns sacrifice for Christ. The mullahs command people to kill non-muslims.

5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

Having to wipe your butt with your left hand without toilet paper? That is a ritual observance of faith?

6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

What ethics are in Islam?

7.
religions, Archaic. religious rites.

Archaic, I will give it that.

8.
Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

The vow to kill. Good stuff there.

So why isn't Islam a religion?

#71 NoSubmission

oh, it makes my head hurt!

Had 9/11 been thwarted by airlines kicking "perceived threats" off the planes, would they have also sued? Would CAIR have felt the same?

#58 zombie

Funny thing is, it is universally taught in schools around the country that "race does not exist," and that it's nothing but a "social construct."

So we pass laws regulating how people relate to something that doesn't exist?

I suppose if we can protect the sasquatch...

73 Beagle

Islam is a complete way of life from politics to going to the bathroom.

ROTFLOL

/Is funny cuz it's true

Let us see this on Court TV.

75 CrimsonFisted

Good link there.

Cases like this never get past the discovery phase it seems.

#67 Sharmuta

So tell me the difference between a religion and a cult then.

One difference is that a cult often prevents members from leaving the cult by threats of imminent physical harm, whereas a religion does not. In Islam, the punishment for apostasy is death.

74 Alouette:

(assuming its not sacralige) Maybe you could tell the guy at the Airport that the leather straps and black boxes are a "personal" thing between him & the wifey. (he he he)

Have fun in Moscow.

#75 CrimsonFisted

Your link also refers to Catholicism as a cult.

What's next, will one of them just blow up.

#77 Confuzed

Had 9/11 been thwarted by airlines kicking "perceived threats" off the planes, would they have also sued?

And they'd have settled for millions.

The Gathering of Eagles website was hacked last night. They are not out of the woods yet.

83 religion of bacon

One difference is that a cult often prevents members from leaving the cult by threats of imminent physical harm, whereas a religion does not. In Islam, the punishment for apostasy is death.

You're preaching to the choir here on that.

DID YOU SEE THAT ODINIST?

sCAIR tactics

#85 mama winger 3/12/2007 03:49PM PDT
#75 CrimsonFisted
Your link also refers to Catholicism as a cult.

It says that, but I never found what they meant on that page. It says ICOC (something I am not familiar with) but the rest of the Islam stuff on that page is great though, and the history of Islam.

Just one source, there are many other sites I go to, just picked that one to link to.

I certainly meant no offense on Catholicism!

what in the world cause of action is "religious bias?" The airline is a private corporation and an airline ticket, last time I checked my law school notes was a revocable license.

And what the hell is this terrorist spokesgroup doing in the capatol building?

If religion is a set of beliefs around which one organizes their life, and adheres to as a set of guiding principles, with set guidelines and communal practices, islam of course is a religion. Then again, so is communism.

90 Shug:

Good one.

It succinctly covers all their CAIRying ons.

#67 Sharmuta

Cults are (usually extreme) factions of a religion... STILL PART OF A RELIGION THOUGH!

Do I really need to get into this? This is basic Religion 101 stuff...

MOONBAT ALERT
Jack Bauer's father (who has not acquitted himself well of late), can't stand living in America anymore. Elections stolen and the usual tripe. I hope Jack kills this asshole tonite.
[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]

#93 MamaWinger

and enviromentalism

#95 Odinist

I get you, Odinist. People may not like a religion, or think it is silly and full of ca-ca, but that doesn't mean it ain't one.

ot

NY TIMES PLANS HIT ON GORE, NEWSROOM SOURCES TELL DRUDGE: 'Scientists argue that Gore's warnings are full of exaggerated claims and startling errors'... Reporter William Broad filing the story, 'A CALL TO COOL THE HYPE'... Developing...

[Link: www.drudgereport.com...]

#97 phoenixgirl

Exactly.

Religion is man doing something for God.
Religion is organized by man as manmade institution.

Its where all relations with a chosen deity go astray. When a man claims to be acting for God... Look out.

Spirituality on the other hand is a personal relationship with God.

The God of the Old Testament never established a religion. He want a personal relationship with Adam and Eve. Man organized the religion. Cain and Able resulted when man's differing opinions on how that organization was to be established.

95 Odinist

Do I really need to get into this?

You're the one who asked, my friend. (See #29) And I think others have given you some very good answers to these questions.

Islam has many hallmarks of a cult. It divides the world between believers and kuffar. It has so many death penalties it's impossible to keep track, from cartoons to dating. Converts are often isolated for a time. Reason and human experience are rejected for complete control over every facet of life. Language is twisted and distorted so it's impossible to discuss Islam rationally. The division between believer and kuffar leads to a systematic ethical double standard: Muslims treated well, non-Muslims horribly. "Charitable" contributions are always diverted into terrorism or recruiting more Muslims.

Whatever list of cult signs you look at, Islam is always well represented.

Boeing-Missile Defense Works Better Than Expected

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Boeing Co. on Monday said its complex system to defend against enemy missile attacks proved more reliable than expected and required less maintenance when it went on alert for a prolonged period last summer before a series of North Korean missile tests.

"We're ready to defend the nation," Scott Fancher, vice president and program director of the system, said of the ground-based midcourse (GMD) missile defense system Boeing is developing for the Pentagon.

/Kim Jong Il who?

#101 jcm

well said

#95 Odinist

Cults are (usually extreme) factions of a religion... STILL PART OF A RELIGION THOUGH!

Only by their own claims. They're generally considered heretics by the larger group. A little like David Duke and the Republicans. He wanted to claim to be one of them, but they didn't want any part of him. So it's kind of a moot point if they claim to be part of a larger religion, the real question is are they accepted as such?

Oh geez, Odinist is acting out a martyr complex.

What part of much more than what we ordinarily call religion do you have trouble with? It has the added bonus of being the stock position taken by Muslim writers. Are you saying Islam is less than what Muslims say it is?

103 Beagle

The division between believer and kuffar leads to a systematic ethical double standard: Muslims treated well, non-Muslims horribly.

And that's only if you're a "good" muslim. Any deviancy from islam and "treated well" goes bye-bye.

#108 Beagle

How is Odinist playing the martyr? I don't see it. Is there some backstory here that I'm missing?

This will never come to trial. The islamobastards are always filing lawsuits, but every time they drop it at the last minute because they cannot permit being cross-examined. Too much truth would come out then.

Check it out...I don't think they have EVER gone to trial. Their links to Hamas would come out over and over.

#64 Akak

I really don't think that the bulk of the military's officer and senior NCO corps is interested in anything more the the next promotion. Kiley was there in 2003. He knew what the problems were. Yet, he really didn't do anything. It was more a matter of telling the soldiers (as the Army tells all soldiers) "Just take two motrin and rock on". As an ex-enlisted man and currently an officer, I've seen too much of military BS, where out most important military assrt, the soldier, is considered to be en expendable, any thing goes asset who can be used and then, if "broken", thrown away.
Walter Reed and the attitudes surrounding it merely seem to highlight the problems and the attitude.

Nice spotting of Bush Derangement Syndrome.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Mayans to 'cleanse' Bush site

GUATEMALA CITY, Guatemala (CNN) -- Mayan Indian leaders have vowed to "spiritually cleanse" an ancient site in Guatemala after U.S. President George W. Bush visits during his seven-day, five-nation tour of Latin America.
...
Mayan priests say they will purify the sacred archaeological site to rid it of any "bad spirits" after Bush is there.

"That a person like (Bush) with the persecution of our migrant brothers in the United States, with the wars he has provoked is going to walk in our sacred lands is an offense for the Mayan people and their culture," Juan Tiney, director of a Mayan non-governmental organization with close ties to Mayan religious and political leaders, told The Associated Press.

I can't even *begin* to list the flipflopped nuttyness in this article

Just saying, he seems to think it's either religion or not religion. But nothing in the realm of human behavior or thought is that simple or clean. Islam is a religion, but it's much more than post-Enlightenment religion in the West, and not in a good way. It's more like the Assassins than it is Anglicans.

#98 mama winger

Thank you, at least a few still see logic...

#102 Sharmuta

You asked me the difference between a cult and a religion- that everyone should know, at least so I thought...

#107 Earth2moonbat

It's not a matter of 'acceptance' by the larger group! Name one cult that IS accepted by its parent religion!

#115 buzz

In F L A M M O V I S I O N !

Robert Spencer on the FrontPage site had a good one about CAIR today: [Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

IMAMS TO ANNOUNCE FILING OF BIAS SUIT AGAINST US AIRWAYS

Why is it that no reporters at CAIR's press conference will ask the group why we should trust their claims of bias when the group has filed (at a minimum) 966 BOGUS ABUSE CLAIMS WITH THE FBI? (Ctrl-F "bogus" to go to the story)

WASHINGTON - Justice Department investigators found that 34 claims were credible of more than 1,000 civil rights and civil liberties complaints stemming from anti-terrorism efforts, including allegations of intimidation and false arrest.

According to a report Monday, Glenn A. Fine, the Justice Department's inspector general, looked into allegations made between Dec. 16, 2002, and June 15 under oversight provisions of the USA Patriot Act. Many complaints were from Muslims or people of Arab descent who claimed they were beaten or verbally abused while being detained.

Not only should CAIR's serial charges of abuse be discounted, the members of this group need to be criminally charged for making hundreds (at least) of false complaints with the FBI.

#117 Beagle

Islam is a religion, but it's much more than post-Enlightenment religion in the West, and not in a good way.

I agree with that as well, In my view, it is a kind of uber-religion, all-encompassing beyond the spritual realm into the political and intellectual realm as well. But the supernatural is the glue with which the whole is held together and thru which it is enforced.

punctuation gone crazy there

#118 Odinist

#107 Earth2moonbat

It's not a matter of 'acceptance' by the larger group! Name one cult that IS accepted by its parent religion!

The cult of those Chassidim who believe Schneerson is Moshiach. No one says they are not Jews.

#71 NoSubmission

Funny. It is haram for a muslim to even set foot in a non-islamic country.

Not true. If you move to a non-islamic country and, for example, perform dawa (re/con/verting infidels, i.e., "inviting others to islam") your imam will consider that exemplary!

Why don't they start their own airline? IslamiCAIR

#103 Beagle

Very good points. A classic cult technique is to tell members that nonmembers are their enemies, in order to bind the cult together against "them." Also, cult members are claimed to have special knowledge which outsiders lack, so that any opinion or judgement from nonmembers is automatically ignorant and invalid.

Scientology is an example of a cult which is a totally independent pseudo-religion. They have a well-developed (if completely bonkers) explanation of how the world was formed, why we are here, what "big story" is being played out, etc, yet they are anti-theistic and have no links to existing religions (didn't want to pay licensing fees, I guess). But they do have tax-exempt status, which as we all know from South Park, is what defines a "real religion."

I see now that the article I linked doesn't name CAIR as the group that filed the bogus charges. That's the way I'm remembering it, but I may be wrong that CAIR was directly caught filing that many bogus charges. The article is now gone.

I'm gonna dig some more and see if I can find articles on bogus claims from CAIR.

#118 Odinist

It's not a matter of 'acceptance' by the larger group! Name one cult that IS accepted by its parent religion!

Exactly my point. You can't claim that cults are religions by virtue of association. They necessarily are heretics.

Please, please Lord, let me be on the jury.

Please.

118 Odinist

You asked me the difference between a cult and a religion- that everyone should know, at least so I thought...

This started because you asked at #29:

So why isn't Islam a religion?

Then at #56 you said:

Not all religions are what you would consider moral, yet they are still religions by definition...

So I asked for the difference between a religion and a cult, NOT because I don't know the answer, but because therein lies your answer to your original question.

/it's a cult

1. A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members' behavior.

Does Islam meet requirement one?

HARRRAAAMMM!

2. A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard.

Does Islam meet requirement Two?

TAQIYYYAAA!

3. A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising.

Does Islam meet requirement three?
Islam exceeds and re-writes requirement three:

A destructive cult has only two three basic purposes: recruiting new members, fund-raising and conquering the world via force.

4. A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive.

Does Islam meet requirement four?

Well it certainly does not appear innovative but it gets a big score on exclusive.

5. A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure.

Does Islam meet requirement five?

The Imam says:
BEHEAD ALL THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM!

6.

A destructive cult's leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life.

Does Islam meet requirement Six?
Ask the Mahdi army.

More

#130 buzz

What's the difference between the Lubavitcher Rebbe and Moshe Rabbenu?

Answer: We know Moshe Rabbenu is dead, but no-one knows where he's buried. We know where the Rebbe is buried, but we're not sure he's dead.

I'm not Jewish, so I hope it's OK that I laughed. :)

This is might a better explanation:

"What's the difference between a cult. . . and my church, my service club, or, say, Alcoholics Anonymous?"

There are lots of differences, but the major difference is that of ultimate goal. Established religions and altruistic movements are focused outward--they attempt to better the lives of members and often, nonmembers. They make altruistic contributions. Cults serve their own purposes, which are the purposes of the cult leader; their energies are focused inward rather than outward (Singer, 1995). Also, religions and altruistic movements typically lack the distinguishing characteristics of overbearing authoritarian control, the use of deception in recruitment, the use of coercive influence techniques, and the replacement of one identity with another which would not have been freely chosen by the individual before joining the group (Hassan, 1990).

#125 BabbaZee

I would argue that Jim Jones wasn't a Christian, even though he dressed his cult up in Christianity (as far as that goes, Hitler dressed his pagan cult up in Christianity, as well). Do you differ?

Much clearer, IMO, to argue that Islam is an evil, dangerous religion than to try to argue that it is not a religion. Also, it may well be that there are other religions that have been just as twisted and evil but are now extinct or never spread beyond a small area, so little or nothing is known about them.

#130 buzzsawmonkey
LOL!
I was at his grave once, not on purpose.
My step mothers father is a few stones from his little mausoleum
they were all there
and the men were barefoot
jumping up and down on his grave ...
trying to wake him up, I guess.
The women offered me cake.
It was a very strange day.

#125 BabbaZee

There are always going to be cases where you're splitting semantic hairs, too. Are Mormons Christian? You could argue that one both ways all day and all night.

134 BabbaZee

Well it certainly does not appear innovative but it gets a big score on exclusive.

That made me laugh.

#137 Earth2moonbat
Jim Jones was of the Cult Of Gramscian Churchianity

#140 Earth2moonbat
No Mormons are Mormons. Do they think of themselves as Christians?

#140 E2m

Are Mormons Christians? I know some that admit that, no, in the strictest sense they are not.

Well, it is true that they were removed because of "racism and reglious intolerance"

They neglected to indicate that it is the intolerance and "racism" of Islam that caused them to be removed.

As such, we should be sueing them.

As far as islam goes, calling it a religion vs a cult vs an ideology MAY be a distinction without a real difference .

Just throwing it out there, makes no diff to me. It's all nutty.

#132 Abu_garcia,

Please, please Lord, let me be on the jury.

Please.

LOL. Yeah, me too. I want to be the foreman as a matter of fact. And they thought the O.J. trial decision was quick.

Is it illegal to laugh out loud and shoot someone the bird when you read the verdict?

OK mama that proves it we do share a brain LOL

The only thing that matters is to recognize that Islam is EVIL.

#149 Babba baby

Was there any doubt? Ha !-

gotta go. Pot roast with those little potatoes and carrots. Mmmm.

#151 buzzsawmonkey
I adore the Rebbe, he is one of my favorite thinkers.
It was just a little disconcerting to see how absolutely fixated they were on raising him from the dead. This was shortly after he had been buried, maybe a 2-3 months.
It's probably a lot calmer there now.

#144 BabbaZee
#145 mama winger

But you see the point. There's just enough ambiguity.

OK, as Wrath pointed out earlier, this argument is like trying to convince a Lefty that radical Islam is a menace- it's a lose/lose for me.

I only brought it up because when most centrists/moderates hear someone say 'Islam isn't a religion', they tend to think the speaker is a bigot, an idiot, or both and disregard the rest of whatever is said. I see people saying this almost everyday on LGF, and I don't think it is helping the cause.

/my last 2¢ on this issue

#29 Odonist

Here are some behavior patterns displayed by cult members. iSlam is NOT a religion, it is a cult.

The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪ The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪ The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

Odinist

Via your name I assume you are neither Christian or Jewish but a practicing pagan of some kind or a secular fan of paganism

Also I assume that because of that you do not have knowledge of the deeper aspects of Christianity, Judaism and the Bible

Of course I can be completely wrong
and if that is true correct me please

In any event
Understand this

To equate Islam with Judeo-Christianity intellectually, spiritually, morally, theologically or in any other wise is a very common and horrific mistake which is responsible for much of the global dhimming.

Our very leaders speak about the so-called three great religions.

/my ass.

Therefore maybe people here and elsewhere may have taken to trying a different term to delineate Islam away from Judeo-Christianity in an attempt to get people to realize, these Muslims are not worshiping the God of Abraham.

Calling Islam a cult is not acceptable to the PC world because it makes clear that Islam s separate and distinct from Christianity and Judaism.

Which it is.

So what's gonna get me more rehab?

Islam is a cult

or Islam is evil

;~}

Aren't their 15 minutes up yet?

#155 Odinist
Agreed. I wish there were fewer people here trying to redefine the language to push their Orwelian agenda. It's important to have the discussion, I don't think it makes us look good to have that stuff go by unchallenged, but there's not really much we can do about it.

Just for reference, in case we have different definitions:

cult
–noun
1.
a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.
the object of such devotion.
4.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.
Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6.
a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7.
the members of such a religion or sect.

As others may have noted, CAIR will at worst file and then promptly dismiss the suit. They will not leave themselves open to the litigation process. That's why they gave up on their anti-Cair lawsuit - they are afraid of what will come out during the document discovery phase of the suit.

#157 BABBAZEE

I have come late to the party-- but good post.

Islam is a cult

or Islam is evil

Definately both.

So Odinist
Per your dictionary post, what difference should it then make to anyone including you if we call it a cult unless what I said in 157 is true..that by speaking of it this way we separate it from Judeo-Christianity and thereby rob it of it's bogus, stolen "gravitas"?

#161 Wooga

This would be a great time for Andrew Whitehead to make an appearance.. [Link: www.Anti-CAIR.com...]

Give CAIR enough time. They should be about half-way to being declared a Vexatious Litigant soon.

/waiting patiently

#157 BabbaZee

You are correct- I am a Heathen, a follower of the Asatru faith. But I have read both the Torah and Christian Bible, along with many other religious texts...

And I never equated Islam with Christianity or Judaism- unless you feel to be a religion, all religions have to equate to one of those two?

#163 BabbaZee

Sorry, I read it as cults being subdivisions of a given religion...

Odinist
No...it is just that the accepted world view of most Americans and Europeans is that there are
"three great religions of the book"
Judaism Islam and Christianity
this is constantly repeated and hammered into the consciousness of the masses
and people have been conditioned to give Islam the same stage and weight mentally they give the other two and they hold it in their secular limited thinking as an equivalent faith.
There fore Islam can use that power, that stage to perpetrate all kind of shit with gravitas that does not belong to them by ideology.
It's a stolen position in the world view of the world, just like everything else about Islam is stolen.

Odinist I was referring strictly to definition 1

1.
a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

160 Odinist

Source?

#168 BabbaZee

shit with gravitas

Now there's a good description of the Islamo ass-wiping rituals.

the GOD of Israel loves him some trinities.

There's always thesis, antithesis, synthesis
There's alwasy seed, time, harvest
All of Torah is dripping with Trinities.
Christianity is based on a trinity.

All these trinities all have certain characteristics.
Many overlay like templates.

This thing Iam speaking of here is also a trinity.

Judaism is the father
Christianity is the son
Islam is the anti-son

Cain and Abel
Esau and Jacob

I could make connections all night

Suffice it to say
Islam is the -anti
the other

the adversary

in this particular trinity

Sorry I came in to late to comment, but a lot of interesting discussion on cults has entered into the thread. I will just point out that as soon as United Airlines lawyers enter into the discovery phase of the trial, CAIR will surrender the suit rather than give out incriminating evidence to their cause. The media will do their part, spreading CAIR's propaganda as factual evidence, and when CAIR drops the suit, then the media will give it a three line story, and move on to the next item on the liberal agenda. Just watch it all go down as I am predicting...

Our government and our leadership may fear the mohammedans, but I sure as hell don't. To me, they are just another group of insipid whiners whose maturity level is somewhat south of a four-year old's.

#168 BabbaZee

The '3' religions of 'the Book'? Bah, TWO religions of 'the Book', and Islam is more accurate.

I'm not an Islamic apologist, I understand the dangers of radical Islam's expansionist views. Besides, as a true infidel, my head will be on the block first.

#169- that's where we differ! I include all the definitions...

BTW- Thank you. Without you I'd have never looked into topics like Gramsci...

#175 buzzsawmonkey
[insert my nodding head here]

#176 Odinist
Right, YOU understand it, but the Average Pamphlet Taking American Idol Sheeple does not.

Waittaminnit
Did you say
Islam is more accurate?
More accurate than what?

And again, if you want to look a little harder, there are "religions of the book" that don't fit neatly into those three pigeonholes. As I said, Mormonism is one. And Baha'i, and Druze, and even the Alawites aren't considered muslims by most muslims.

See? It's not all cut-and-dried.

#170 Earth2moonbat

The quickest I could find at the time- Dictionary.com

BTW- Thank you. Without you I'd have never looked into topics like Gramsci...

You are more than welcome, my pleasure

#180 Earth2moonbat
See 176

Kinda like all the little parts that are left over after you fix your car...

Well I meant 178

Babba~ I think he meant:

TWO religions of 'the Book', and Islam

is ^a^ more accurate ^description^.

Hey, Babba, what's 2 between friends?

{m}

Ahhh

good!

My preliminary litigation plan for defending suit vs. U.S. Airways:

1. Notice the depositions of the six imans, and videotape the depositions. Bias is a legitimate subject for depositions. Explore, under oath, their biases towards the West. Ever made statements critical of infidels. Ever advocated jihad against the U.S.? Yes? Ever called for the violent overthrow of the U.S. Govenment? No? Care to explain the difference?

2. Explore, under oath, the extent to which their doing something like this stunt was discussed at the conference they attended the prior day (or at informal meetings held in connection with that conference.)

3. Supoena the organization that hosted the function that the Imans attended the prior day to get list of attendees and addresses, and whatever transcripts and recordings were made of the speeches at the event.

4. Locate and subpoena for video deposition the speakers and the attendees of that conference to corroborate or not the responses that the Imans gave under oath.

That's just off the top of my head.

Suing somone opens up the person doing the suing to wide ranging discovey inquiries. Under oath, under circumstances where they can be compelled by a judge to answer the damn questions being asked.

Any competent defense attorney should be able to make these clowns very, very sorry that they ever started down this road.

:: emerging from the background to throw a little more kerosene on this bonfire ::

Technically, Odinist & my other fellow lizards, a cult, as i've come to understand it in my life travels of occult research, is an emerging faith group.

Realistically, a cult is any faith group which fits all the traits outlined, or which fits enough to make outside observers leery about having said cult as neighbors.

:: retreating back into shadows with fresh drink. Will provide bona fides if requested, but suffice to say Odinist is not the only Asatruar in here. Personally, i know the Iron Hand of Tyr guided me to LGF. ::

#178 (179) BabbaZee

It only takes basic knowledge of religion to tell the diference... But then I guess the 'sheeple' don't even have that if they don't get it...

NO! There are only two 'People of the Book' religions in the top 3... and then there is Islam... Better?

Well cats and kittens dressed like pagan norsemen
it's been grand.
;~}
Seep tight Lizardim of all persuasions.

Got it Odinist, m 'splained.
have a good night.

#181 Odinist

I like the one that Ploome came up with (112). The one you had, I thought didn't really distinguish between a cult and a mainstream religion the way Ploome's did. And I think it's an important distinction. I don't believe that it's a quantitative distinction between religion and cult, I believe that it's qualitative. And I further believe that if you take the list in 112, ans start to apply that to the islamofascists, it fits perfectly.

That doesn't necessarily mean that all of islam is a cult, but it certainly gives you a way to determine whether a particular congregation is. And it also gives reformers some guidelines to follow for reforming their religion, should that ever gain enough momentum to be anything more than a token for-show movement.

that said, thanks to taqiya and everything else i've learned about Islam in the past 6 years, quite frankly, i'm pretty much in agreement with the general consensus you've reached.

q

#190 buzzsawmonkey

That's another issue, entirely. It's so ironic that OBL calls the US army "crusaders", when many aren't religious at all. As far as that goes, the IDF isn't a "Jewish army".

#191 querent

Damn, and I thought I was the only resident Heathen here!
And you beat me by two years! Glad to see not all other Heathens are on the Left!

Heavy stuff!

#198 Odinist

According to Esther, Fred Sanford is a heathen. That puts you in good company. I think.

#7 Prester John 3/12/2007 03:17PM PDT

One can only hope there will be countersuits by US Airways and the passengers for losses incurred because of the antics of the (non) flying imams.

There also needs to be a campaign to help US Airways not cave.

re: 198 - odinist

well that's a long story, but when you consider i'm out here in the Silicon Valley, i'm an Eeeevil neocon warmonger infidel. and even worse than that, i wear Israeli sandals (NAOT - the Anti-Birkenstocks!) on the sacred peace ground of nuclear-free Berkeley

(ha ha, not when i'm in town it ain't nuclear-free)

uff, gotta go - perhaps we shall raise a horn in the Lizard Lounge some day and trade tales of adventure. until then, may your scales be ever shiny...

q

#195 Earth2moonbat

I view Islam as more of a collection of cults that form a religion- if that makes any sense.

Sunni, Shia, Wahabbi, et al...

Cult's may differ from 'mainstream religions', but I still feel they are religions by definition... I think that may be the prime sticking point here...

#200 Earth2moonbat 3/12/2007 05:28PM PDT

#198 Odinist

According to Esther, Fred Sanford is a heathen. That puts you in good company. I think.

HA just one before I shut this contraption down

As I remember... CAIR ended up not taking this issue to court because they were convinced they didn't have a chance in HELL to win. They did, however, decide to launch an all out Muslim boicot of US Airways toward the end of 2007... which in turn vaulted US Airways to become the leading carrier in the world in 2008 because, quite honestly, a "Muslim"-free airline was pretty damn attractive to most air travelers at that time.

/note to self... pick up two dozen "Crescent" rolls on the way home from the office.

#203 Odinist

When all is said and done, I don't think it matters if a cult is a subset of religion, or something unrelated. What's important is that it's distinct. And that gives us some guidelines in determining whether a certain sect is acceptable in our midst or not.

Legally, that distinction is a whole other matter. The law is probably less inclined to determine the legitimacy of a religion based on it's characteristics than by it's standing.

E2M & BZ

LOL!

Have a great night!

And speaking of which,

Goodnight all!

-Odinist

So much for dialogue.

Something CAIR never really wants. They want to take advantage of the PC scare tactics that work so well for silencing people.

any settlement funds might be used to fund terrorist organizations.

#210
not might will
any settlement will be used ot fund
terrorists
insurgants
self-explosion experts

This is a copy of the email I sent to USAirways:

I heard the "6 flying imans" are going to sue. Don't back down! I'll be glad to donate money for your legal defense. I've already chosen your airline as my airline of choice due to you standing up to these terrorist thugs. Take this opportunity to countersue and use the "discovery" power to investigate them and their supporters. As I said, I will gladly donate to your legal defense fund. Just let me know. Be safe and be well. Go U.S. Airways!

Why does cultural sensitivity always have to go one way? Couldn't the loud-praying Imams have been sensitive to American air travelers who might be a bit jumpy because their air-traveling compatriots were murdered by loud praying Muslim zealots a few years back? In a majority Christian country why not excercise a bit of prayerful quietism to show respect to a tradition in which Jesus mocked loud-praying priests of his day and urged his followers to "go into your closets and pray to your heavenly father?"

These Muslim bullies do not care about equal rights or equal anything. They are trying to shift Muslim religious zealotry over to the cultural sphere and out of the separation of church and state sphere; they know that once they are safely ensconced on cultural terrain they are home free.

I believe there should be criminal charges against these guys and against their organization. Use RICO and bust them.

Odinist
I guess you could call it a religion after all Jim Jones called his cult a religion. To me it is nothing but a death cult. Also if the airline caves to these bufoons they might as well close there doors and I think they know that.

I'd like to see a blind reporter with his guide dog in the front row of this press conference circus.

And vendors selling sausage and bacon sandwiches.

Can these imams villians be deposed? Can we find out who's funding this travisty?

Why are they such assholes about this? Anyone, anywhere, causing a disturbance on a flight will be removed, be they drunks, grabby Sams or crazy imams. Do not give these lunatics the attention they crave.

If I was the judge in this case, I'd fold each page of the lawsuit into a paper airplane and throw them at their lawyers from the bench. "Last one out the door pays my court costs... suckers!"

If the airlines are unable to protect air passengers from suspicious activity, by asking those who like to imitate jihad terrorists to please leave, then nobody is going to want to fly the airlines. The airline defendant in this lawsuit should bring out this fact. It would be best if all of the airlines got together on this, together with a group that would represent the air passenger public, to defend the right to eject suspicious characters. Since this is going to happen in the future, as the friends and allies of the jihaditerrorists set up more entrapment scenarios to produce "false" alarms, the industry should be ready for it. They should have an industry organization ready to defend, in court, the need to protect the flying public.

Also, the US government should enter the case as a friend of the court, to explain why there is the need to be suspicious of people who act strangely on an airplane. The easiest way to do this is to show videos of the events of 9/11.

#41 Sharmuta

Is beating your wife moral? Is raping your wife moral? Is killing others because they have a different religion moral? Is killing people who leave your religion moral? Is forcing people to do things they way your religion says they should moral?

I certainly don't think any of those things are moral, but then I wasn't brought up to.

Islam is obviously a religion, just a thoroughly immoral one. At least, as a civilized person understands morality.

215 Jack hamilton 3/12/2007 08:01PM PDT

I guess you could call it a religion after all Jim Jones called his cult a religion. To me it is nothing but a death cult.

And fred phelps calls himself a baptist, which baptists denounce. Anyone who reads what he did and how he handles himself...he is a leader of a cult (primarly made up of his family btw), NOT a baptist. jim jones' church was not christian either. Neither was the waco cult sect.

Someone earlier had a pretty good link outlining what cults do. A webster dictionary reference doesn't do justice to the differences..not even close. Some people may not think it's important to distinguish, but I find it very important to call islam what it is...and it's not a religion in my mind. If you ever have a chance to come across documentaries on cults and how some of their members are deprogrammed, they really get into the nitty gritty. It's almost painful to watch. This was years ago..probably 25yrs ago I saw these documentaries.

US Airways can get a lot of good publicity if they fight the CAIR and ACLU lawyers:

If US Airways fight it out in court they can use these messages in their next ads:

We're US Airways. We take security seriously.

We're US Airways. We don't take sh*t from anyone.

Reasons for booting Osama's pals off the plane? We don't need no stinkin' reasons. We're US Airways.

Relax. You're flying US Airways. No terrorists here!

You don't like our rules? Fly Delta.

US Airways. It's our way or the highway.

To hell with the lawyers. We're US Airways.

US Airways! It's better than camel riding.

We're US Airways and our business is safety in the sky. So, get back in your damn seat! Now!

If you work for US Airways, feel free to use these ad slogans. No charge. My pleasure.

(Sorry for the long quote. I thought it might save some scrolling should anyone wish to refer back.)

#112 ploome hineni

(from ploom`s link - What are the Characteristics of a Religious Cult?

1. Intense Study - Focus is on group doctrine and writings. Bible, if used at all, is referred to one verse at time to "prove" group teachings.

2. Opposer Warnings - Recruiters are told that "Satan" will cause relatives and friend to say bad things about the group to try to "steal them away from God." Recruits soon believes group members, alone, are truthful/trustworthy.

3. Guilt and Fear - Group dwells on members' "sinful nature" (many use public confession). Guilt and fear arising from "failing God" are magnified to manipulate new member.

4. Schedule Control & Fatigue - Study and service become mandatory. New member becomes too busy to question. Family, friends, jobs and hobbies are squeezed out, further isolating the new member.

5. Attack Independent Thought - Critical thinking is discouraged as prideful and sinful, blind acceptance encouraged.

6. Divine Commission - Leader(s) claim new revelation from God, within past 200 years, in which all but their group are rejected by God. They, alone, speak for God.

7. Absolutism - They insist on total, unquestioning obedience and submission to the group, both actions AND thoughts. Group "love" and acceptance becomes dependent upon obedience and submission. Unconditional love...isn't.

8. Totalism - "Us against them" thinking. Strengthens group identity. Everyone outside of group lumped under one label.

With the exception of #6 this describes liberals (and environmentalists) with singular precision. Especially #5, #7, and #8.

And #3 is an exception also, I suppose...

Well, is it really? Don`t liberals feel guilty for being white and not crippled or otherwise underprivileged?

Or, rather, don`t they think that everybody else should feel guilty for being white and not underprivileged?

Never mind.

Did I say "crippled?" I meant "differently abled."

#96 this isn't the first time Jack Bauer's Dad...Cromwell has spewed his anti-America crap..he's done it a lot of times.usually in another country...

#173 loflyer
#189 SF Conservative
#219 EE,

When the US Airways lawyers get in on the action, and the CAIR drops out, would it be possible or useful to file some kind of countersuit by US Airways? After all, these repeated false-start lawsuits and subsequent publicity could be seen as being a form of harassment. Either there has to be a real grievance or the lawsuits are frivolous and the practice should be stopped.

Just an idea, I'm by no means a lawyer, but I've been following the SCO vs IBM debacle for a while, where SCOs accusations and arguments have been rather insubstantial, and IBM has now been talking about Lanham Act violations... The big difference being that SCO never pulled out.

Elghund

What 227 said.

They should be able to counter sue for malicious prosecution or whatever the term is - for costs at the very least. One suspects King Fahd can afford to take the hit - no reason for a functioning business to have to.

The airlines and Homeland Security should counter-strike by filing criminal charges aginst the imams for terrorist acts (they were clearly either trying a dry run or trying to scare the passengers with their bizzare antics so they could thrn do this -- both qualify) and also CAIR for conspiracy after the fact...

#75 CrimsonFisted 3/12/2007 03:45PM PDT

So why isn't Islam a religion?

Ya need a better link there, CF. That site starts out saying, inter alia, that

The Islamic religion is an information control cult, like Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses and International Churches of Christ. Information control cults usually have cute terms to describe materials that are hostile to their religion. The buzzword for Catholics is "Protestant teaching".

I think they're going to have a hard time selling that the Catholic Church is a cult. Any site that claims so instantly loses all credibility...

US Airways should set up a defense fund. I'd give. Call it the Sit Down, Shut Up or Get Off fund.

...removal from MN flight based on race, religion

Should read, "...based on being treacherous @ssholes"