Is there any nether region, no matter how foul, that the EU will not French-kiss ?

I'm putting my money on "no."

A shopping spree for Ghaddafi at Goofy Hats R' Us.

Nothing like a little paranoia against people trying to help out...

Dang, cost 'em eight and half years in Libyan prison...

And free makeovers for his women.

Behold the strength of soft power!

Thanks, Charles.

FrontPage Magazine summarizes the disgraceful affair today;

Libyan Hell For Bulgarian Sisters Of Mercy

...it will be just as tragic for future European kidnap victims that are now sure to follow, as other tyrants have definitely noticed how the shamefully inadequate European politicians approached Gaddafi on two legs but constantly crawled away on four to get him his money.

OT: Cindy Sheehan crashes Kos' Gate.....
'It's Up to Us' by Cindy Sheehan

It is also with a heavy heart that I announce my candidacy against Nancy Pelosi in California’s 8th.
....

I am committed to challenging a two party system that has kept us in a state of constant warfare for the last 60 years and has become more and more beholden to special interests and has forgotten the faces of the people whom it represents.

I am committed to using our strength as a country to wage peace and to elevate the status of every citizen in our country by converting the enduring war economy to a prosperous one with lasting peace.

Since she's banned this was posted by a sock puppet.

After arriving in Bulgaria, the Palestinian doctor demanded to returned to Libya.

You bet, Terp. By the way, I hate to say "I told you so," but I was right about their imminent release...

Wasn't one of the Lockerbie bombers supposed to be part of the trade?

Not saying how much they paid, but the bidding starts at a million bucks per "infected child", totalling over $400 million, to be "paid out" through a "charity" controlled by Khaddafi's son.

Terrorism works.

When in reality there should be a massive payment the other direction to those who lost 8 1/2 years because of Mu’ammar Gadhafi's shenanigans.

State sponsored kidnapping pays.

I'm off! Gotta go find me a Frenchman to kidnap.

re: #7 Killgore Trout

I guess her meeting with Conyers didn't go as planned (well, she was arrested for disorderly conduct for overstaying her welcome). The Democrats didn't exactly bend to her will. Pelosi is surely squirming in her designer shoes and her overflowing bank accounts.

Where is a President Reagan now?

/Sure wasn't in that lineup last night!

...yes, we are farmed by the Arabs like the Good Earth...

I STILL say we'd have gotten their release faster and without paying any money, if we'd just chucked a couple of Tomahawk missles through his tents' the way RR did.
Just sayin......

When you reinforce a behavior, that behavior will continue.

Or. In less PC terms.
Terrorism pays and the west is a weak lap dog for Islam and every other crack pot dictator.

The Barbary Pirates are at it again -- holding Western hostages for ransome. And the Euros are doing what they do best -- surrendering. America used to know how to deal with pirates. But that was before we became slaves of the Prophet Liberallah.

Reagan did not do a proper job handling Libya.

re: #7 Killgore Trout

That'll make Kos's patience wear even thinner.

re: #17 Roger Hey Roger - sorry, I hadn't read your post before I posted my #19 !

Cindy Sheehan: The Ego Trip begins.

The medics, who were sentenced to life in prison for contaminating children with the AIDS virus after lengthy, barbaric torture forced them to sign "confessions..."but now maintain their innocence

Fixed

A freed Bulgarian starts to detail his torture:

link

I'm glad this is over.

Also, Bulgaria gave the Palestinian doctor citizenship so he could be released alongside the Bulgarians.
Do you think an Islamic state would do something like that to save an infidel?

re: #22 Bearster Oh, I don't know about that.
What do you think he should have done?

re: #9 Charles

Kidnapping and ransoms are part and parcel of the Middle East scene, making things extremely dangerous for journalists in particular. They command top dollar among the thugs who engage in the kidnappings.

And the more people pay the ransoms, the more people will be kidnapped and held by these thugs. It doesn't matter whether it's Khadafi or the Palestinian terrorists Hamas, PIJ, or the Taliban in Afghanistan, etc. They see money to be made - to finance their ongoing terrorist operations.

The only way to break the cycle is not to pay.

re: #19 realwest

absolutely,mommar has proven again and again he has feet of clay...typical bully,smack him once and he'll run away.not that the euro weenies remember what it takes anymore.....

How much would Quaddafi charge to kidnap Sheehan? Might be worth asking...

re: #19 realwest

I this was an American problem I'd hope that would be how this was handled. However, this was handled by the Europeans.

re: #23 Ward Cleaver

Heh.

But when they get nukes in that part of the world, there is no way they would use them to blackmail the west. Right?
I mean, we have seen no evidence they will do this.
No past trends.
No past behaviors.

For centuries and centuries the muslim pirates raided the European coast of the Mediterranean kidnapping people and then asking for ransom...

Nothing has changed.

European prisoners, ransom...

One thing has changed: Europe is no longer defending herself...

re: #31 Peacekeeper LOL! He's such a nutcase that he might kidnap her on his own initiative, we just have to find a way to get her there!

re: #29 lawhawk

the more people pay the ransoms, the more people will be kidnapped and held by these thugs. It doesn't matter whether it's Khadafi or the Palestinian terrorists Hamas, PIJ, or the Taliban in Afghanistan, etc. They see money to be made - to finance their ongoing terrorist operations.

The only way to break the cycle is not to pay.

True -- and that's what the European Union will never do.

Just out of curiosity, why is Lybia hard up for cash. Lets be blunt 400 million is chump change.

Oh yeah and the EU is a bunch of losers in any case.

Ok, WAY OT:

I truly feel sorry for Lindsay Lohan. Her life is spiraling downward as if she were circling a drain. She was so sweet and pretty when she was younger, and now she's such a waste.

If chidlren are brought up with a foundation of right and wrong, they have nothing to support them when they make their own decisions.

She's not a child, and she must accept the consequences of her bad choices, but it does make me sad for her.

re: #9 Charles: By the way, I hate to say "I told you so," but I was right about their imminent release...

And I'm very happy (in this case) to be wrong.

Kaddafi did hold out for more jizya and policitical concessions... and the Lockerbie bomber exchange remains up in the air.

Ok, it's over. Now can we send a cruise missile up Qaddafi's ass. I'm sick of the new tolerance of Libya since they 'voluntarily gave up their nuclear weapons program'.
Libya is just as bad is Syria and Iran and they need to be dealt with.

re: #22 Bearster

Reagan did not do a proper job handling Libya.

As much as I admire RWR, his Mideast policies could have been better. The Beirut pullout was a major mistake, as was dealing with Iran for the Lebanon hostages. The Libya response was a slap in the face, but only set Khaddafi back momentarily.

We never really recognized that the early terror groups in the Mideast were part of the proxy wars with the Soviet.

re: #27 Kerr Avon
From your link:

The Libyan government kidnapped us because it knew we were a very weak country at that time.

And sending ransom instead of missiles reinforces that perception.

re: #27 Kerr Avon And, of course, Human Rights Watch is gonna get all over Libya for this right away.
Mofos.

Yes, the figure being bandied about is €294 million which is just about a million bucks a head; there have also been rumblings about an 'appeal' by the murdering fuck who blew up the Lockerbie planebecause his conviction was 'unsafe'.
Apparently, someone thought that evidence of the piece of shit having to do with the bomb should have been suppressed.
All this is paid for by EU taxpayers - me in other words.
I've refused to work on any Libyan jobs or work with any Libyan engineer; since I'm a senior engineer and there aren't that many of us about, it may make a slight diference, but whether or not, I will never contribute to the enrichment of that shower of bastards, I have some self respect after all.

re: #31 Peacekeeper

He might be crazy, but he's not stupid!

re: #38 david e

On a noational level yes, it's peanuts. But most (if not all) of this money will go to Guaddaffi and his sons.

#45 robert in england

good for you Robert

re: #15 Peacekeeper

I'm off! Gotta go find me a Frenchman to kidnap.

Hehe. Good luck, Peacekeeper. Hope you can stand the smell!

So how long before the Barbary Coast barbarians start making a regular business of this (again), and it's up to us to pull Europe's chestnuts out of the fire (again)? Didn't we see this movie already? like, 200 years or so ago?

#24 realwest, hey more details are always good:-)

OT
On Hot Air this morning:
Part 2 of Erick’s interview with Dr. Tawfik Hamid
There's also a link to part 1.

Once again . . . do gooders need to STAY HOME. Do not go to work or volunteer in barbaric Muslim lands.

I am glad that these poor nurses and the doctor were released, but what a horrific ordeal for them. The women were raped, among other tortures. I'm beyond disgusted that Libya walks away with its buckets full of money and goodies and now world leaders are stepping all over themselves to see who can be the first to "normalize ties" with Libya. WTH? I don't even know what world I'm living in anymore. Once those nurses were safely on Bulgarian soil, Libya should have been decimated from the air -- to hell with civilians. The ONLY thing that Muslims understand is FORCE. History has proven this again and again. If a country knew that it would be destroyed for kidnapping, torturing, raping innocent visitors and guest workers, and extorting millions of dollars for their release, it would behave. Period. Instead, wow, what a deal! A lot of barbaric countries are looking to Libya with new admiration and respect and an intent to emulate.

#42 jcm

The thing is President Reagan would have built on his starting point and would have adjusted. He wouldn't have thrown Graham out of his group of advisers and taken on a bunch of islamists instead.

re: #48 Killgore Trout

You are probably right, but still this is inane on both sides.

Charles is hot this morning.

My hope: All corrupt-for-live tin-pot dictators of Africa will dry up and blow away. It is time for Africa to be free.

Mr. "Little Eichmanns" learns his fate today. I for one have my fingers crossed. Oh, and I'd like to go on record as saying that should I meet him on the street, he is going to get a size 12 Doc Marten square in the temple.

Linky:

I'm glad their ordeal is over. What a nightmare.

I just hope that when the stories of what the medics have went through comes out that it will be a wake up call to every westerner in these troubled areas and they all leave. That would be such a lovely payback, but I doubt it will happy.

wow, i'd say that the real story here is that LGF and Kos feel the same way about something.

The return of the Barbary Pirates. Bulgaria is a member of NATO, isn't there something NATO could do?

re: #58 equable

I sure hope he gets fired!

Libya.

Ally.

re: #39 goddessoftheclassroom
Really? I don't. The world is going to hell in a hand basket and this spoiled coke-addicted twerp has squandered enormous opportunities granted her that people with much more talent deserve. She won't live past 30 and I really couldn't care less.

re: #42 jcm

Regan (the Graet) did NOT deal for hostages.

please get the facts correct.

when he found out what was going on, he fired all the people involved.

the pull-out from Lebanon was caused by the democrats. they demanded that we leave.

re: #63 Aladin Sane

McDonalds is always hiring......

Meanwhile, the South Korean hostage deadline has passed, and no word from the Taliban captors of their condition. The Jawas have updates.

What a wonderful world we are leaving our kids.

And all because so many baby boomers are self absorbed.
Gonna be funny if in the future the economy tanks because our kids have to ramp up spending to fight the war then that we should have fought now, and all those dollars so many are depending on for their comfy retirement get sucked right our of their hands.

Meanwhile, the La Belle disco and Lockerbie bombing victims' families still await promised Libyan compensation payments;

Senators to Bar Libya Ambassador Nominee

Four U.S. senators say they intend to block the confirmation of President Bush's choice for U.S. ambassador to Libya.

The nomination of Gene Cretz is a step in restoring normal diplomatic relations after decades of tensions over Libya's alleged involvement in terrorism. The Bush administration has sought to reward Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi since he surprised the world by agreeing to dismantle his country's weapons of mass destruction programs.

But the four Democrats _ Frank Lautenberg and Robert Menendez of New Jersey and Charles Schumer and Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York _ say they will invoke a Senate procedure to delay the nomination until Libya pays compensation for terrorist attacks in the 1980s.

They think Kaddafi will be impressed by Dems holding Bush's ambassador hostage?

The figure was apparently $460M - $1M to go to each AIDS patient.

Whaddya bet this is either 1) heavily "taxed" by the Libyan government before receipt, or 2) "distributed" via some government conduit, which will deduct "administrative expenses"...

The usual ME compensation payment for suicide bombers, inter alia, seems to be more like $10-25K, and my guess is that's what the families will wind up with.

So yes, history goes on in the same groove for centuries, but the people on "our" side involved in this stuff either ignore history or are ignorant of it.

re: #58 equable

Mr. "Little Eichmanns" learns his fate today. I for one have my fingers crossed. Oh, and I'd like to go on record as saying that should I meet him on the street, he is going to get a size 12 Doc Marten square in the temple.
Linky:

Live blogging on his Dismissapalooza at Pirate Ballerina.

Imams blame our Western vaccines on infertility (that never shows up in their numbers) and HIV (although, HIV is virtually non-existant in islamic states) and now blamed a few Bulgarian nurses for spreading AIDS to babies.
When will we learn and leave them all to die of polio, measles, mumps, diptheria and whatever else you have to use an alcohol swab on their skin to administer?
These nurses were raped, beaten and threatened with imminent death.
When will we (for their own protection) stop letting such women enter any islamic country?

Pay the jizya and all will be well with you, kfirs, until the next time.

allgag the merciful

OT: Now here's an idea for insomniacs:

Internet Jihadists
An idea whose time has come: the how-to guide for tracking terrorists on-line

Finding terrorists on-line is becoming a popular pursuit on the Internet. Scores of people are up late at night searching on-line for terrorists while their families sleep.

Tracking the Internet Jihad, “A guide to safely tracking and investigating al Qa’ida and other Islamic Terrorist groups on the Internet” by “Archangel” is a simple guide to get you going.

[Link: www.canadafreepress.com...]

re: #47 savage_nation

Oops, major goof! Yes, WITHOUT a foundation.

Leftists are depraved, but sometimes my fellow conservatives can be pretty nasty human beings as well. One of the reasons I come to LGF is that people here generally seem far less cruel-hearted, vindictive and cynical than is the case with many "conservatives".

A quick scan of comments on a popular conservative news site in connection with the Lindsay Lohan DUI arrest included the following sentiments:

1. Non-sequiter about her body-guards being "black scum". (Many US "conservatives" are flat-out racists, there's no escaping it).

2. Prospect of her getting sexually assaulted or raped in prison "looks promising"

3. Several posters simply wish death upon Lindsay Lohan.

4. Epithets, names, and general nastiness too numerous to count.

Many of these people no doubt would claim to be Christian. That claim looks pretty worthless these days. Obviously I'm not approving of what that poor, sick girl is doing to herself and others, but the lack of any hint of compassion and the sheer malevolence of many "conservatives" is extremely disheartening to me.

Thank God LGFers do not seem to follow this pattern. Maybe because we're more middle of the road instead of hard right, I dunno.

Typical Barbary Coast ransom fees circa 1790
captains: $6,000 each
first mates: $4,000. each
seamen: $3,000 each

Can we update this?
Humanitarian Aid supervisors
Medical:
Doctors
Nurses

Ghaddafi was just playing the old game. Hold hostages and negotiate whatever you can. Foolish Europeans did this for 300 years and got nothing but inflationary ransom demands.

The EU should renege on that deal.

/and then I woke up

Libya imports Bulgarian Med Techs, yet that there is such a surplus that Muslim Doctors are having a Fire Sale.

re: #39 goddessoftheclassroom

Ok, WAY OT:

I truly feel sorry for Lindsay Lohan. Her life is spiraling downward as if she were circling a drain. She was so sweet and pretty when she was younger, and now she's such a waste.

If chidlren are brought up with a foundation of right and wrong, they have nothing to support them when they make their own decisions.

She's not a child, and she must accept the consequences of her bad choices, but it does make me sad for her.

Well, her father was (is?) a raging alcoholic. So, you can see how she grew up.

re: #62 Kenneth Bulgaria is a member of NATO, isn't there something NATO could do?

That was (heatedly) discussed at length in an earlier thread.

Meanwhile, US forces in Iraq thwarted a kidnapping over there and captured those responsible.

re: #77 Pro-Bush Canuck

Leftists are depraved, but sometimes my fellow conservatives can be pretty nasty human beings as well. One of the reasons I come to LGF is that people here generally seem far less cruel-hearted, vindictive and cynical than is the case with many "conservatives".

A quick scan of comments on a popular conservative news site in connection with the Lindsay Lohan DUI arrest included the following sentiments:

1. Non-sequiter about her body-guards being "black scum". (Many US "conservatives" are flat-out racists, there's no escaping it).

2. Prospect of her getting sexually assaulted or raped in prison "looks promising"

3. Several posters simply wish death upon Lindsay Lohan.

4. Epithets, names, and general nastiness too numerous to count.

Many of these people no doubt would claim to be Christian. That claim looks pretty worthless these days. Obviously I'm not approving of what that poor, sick girl is doing to herself and others, but the lack of any hint of compassion and the sheer malevolence of many "conservatives" is extremely disheartening to me.

Thank God LGFers do not seem to follow this pattern. Maybe because we're more middle of the road instead of hard right, I dunno.

I too have see things that make me shake my head.

re: #77 Pro-Bush Canuck

A quick scan of comments on a popular conservative news site in connection with the Lindsay Lohan DUI arrest included the following sentiments:

Links please.

OT

Didn't see this posted before, thought you lizards might enjoy reading something a little positive.

Al-Qaeda faces rebellion from the ranks

Sickened by the group’s barbarity, Iraqi insurgents are giving information to coalition forces

Fed up with being part of a group that cuts off a person’s face with piano wire to teach others a lesson, dozens of low-level members of al-Qaeda in Iraq are daring to become informants for the US military in a hostile Baghdad neighbourhood.

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

Well, its a little hard to single out the EU to pay ransom to keep innocent doctors and nurses alive. I'm not trying to slam Israel, but they'll release real live terrorists to get the bodies of murdered soldiers back, whcih I think is worse.

Speaking of pirates: Somali pirates demand $1.7m for Danish freighter

Three other vessels, one from Taiwan and two from South Korea, are also currently held by pirates off the coast of war-torn Somalia.

re: #61 bosforus Huh? What's Kos got to say?

re: #87 allah this

Anybody with a heart or a soul would be turned off by their cruelty and depravity.

This has probably already been linked. But in case somebody's missed it.

This, finally, in the NYT:

Doubts Raised on Magazine’s ‘Baghdad Diarist’.

Just who is the “Baghdad Diarist”?

It is a question that many people are asking The New Republic, the Washington political magazine that has been running articles attributed to an American soldier in Baghdad.

The author, who used the pen name Scott Thomas, has written three articles for the magazine since February, describing gruesome incidents in Iraq. Last week, The Weekly Standard questioned the veracity of the New Republic articles and invited readers with knowledge about the military or Baghdad to comment.

Since then, several readers and a spokesman for the base where the soldier is supposedly based have written in, raising more questions.

re: #34 hous bin pharteen

But when they get nukes in that part of the world, there is no way they would use them to blackmail the west. Right?
I mean, we have seen no evidence they will do this.
No past trends.
No past behaviors.

Nope, none, nothing to see here, nothing at all. How islamophobic of you to bring it up.

(And remember, kids, Jihad is an Inner Struggle! And there are no bad people out there (except Bush of course)! And my name is Twinkletoes Gumdrop Splort, King of the Moon-Mushroom People!)

re: #89 easy

Speaking of pirates: Somali pirates demand $1.7m for Danish freighter

Three other vessels, one from Taiwan and two from South Korea, are also currently held by pirates off the coast of war-torn Somalia.

What is rewarded, gets repeated.

re: #77 Pro-Bush Canuck

if you are a racist, you are NOT a conservative.

all sites have their trolls, mobies, ect.
(what the plural of moby? mobies or mobys, i know the proper way, but this is the internet)

Lohan is very troubled and is in great danger.
it is clear that she is out of control and as she is a "star" no one can say no to her and make it stick.

but her problems are the fruits of the left.
no guidence, direction, beyond self indulgence.
if it feels good, it is ok.
ect.

I hate to sound like Chen Zen or Cognito, but late in Reagan's term, possibly when he was already suffering early effects of Alzheimers and his assistants were running the show, the US traded weapons to Iran in exchange for Hezb'Allah freeing hostages.

It should have stopped as soon as Hezb'Allah kidnapped new Americans so their masters in Tehran could demand more weapons, but it didn't.

Paying ransom always encourages more kidnapping. I hope the EU bans travel of all its citizens, including oil field workers, to Libya, so they don't have more potential hostages to seize.

Libya's oil field will probably collapse without Westerners to run it. Unless, of course, they invite in the Chinese. Which they probably will. But I don't think Chinese technology is as good as ours.

#64 Ben Hur

Libya.

Ally.

Ally of who?

re: #66 wargammer2005

re: #42 jcm

Regan (the Graet) did NOT deal for hostages.

please get the facts correct.

when he found out what was going on, he fired all the people involved.

the pull-out from Lebanon was caused by the democrats. they demanded that we leave.

I was speaking of the Administration as a whole; what is also not understood out of the Iran - Contra deal was two factors.
1) The President has wide virtually unilateral executive power when it comes to handling American Citizens held illegally in foreign nations.
2) The Congress had banned the use of appropriated funds for the Contras, proceedes from the Arms sales were not appropriated funds.

Yes make deals with kidnappers is not the best method for the problem. However in the situation it was a legal use of the executive branches powers, even though not directly authorized by the President. The funneling of funds to the Contras was in keeping with RWR policing of confronting the Soviets at every front, and whiling violating congress intent in banning funds to Contras exploited a loophole in the law.

re: #77 Pro-Bush Canuck " Maybe because we're more middle of the road instead of hard right, I dunno."
I'd prefer to think that Charles has cultivated a following of people who actually THINK before they talk and, usually, think analytically. I don't know anything about her, but if what she did put others in potential danger (i.e., driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs) I would want to have her change her ways immediately and if the judicial system says jail, I'm all for it. I'm NOT however, in favor of her being raped, beaten up or anything like that while she's in jail.

re: #92 meMarc

This has probably already been linked. But in case somebody's missed it.

This, finally, in the NYT:

Doubts Raised on Magazine’s ‘Baghdad Diarist’.

Just who is the “Baghdad Diarist”?
It is a question that many people are asking The New Republic, the Washington political magazine that has been running articles attributed to an American soldier in Baghdad.

The author, who used the pen name Scott Thomas, has written three articles for the magazine since February, describing gruesome incidents in Iraq. Last week, The Weekly Standard questioned the veracity of the New Republic articles and invited readers with knowledge about the military or Baghdad to comment.

Since then, several readers and a spokesman for the base where the soldier is supposedly based have written in, raising more questions.

The real tipoff was that all his posts began with "Dear Diary".

/

re: #97 Kenneth

#64 Ben Hur

Libya.

Ally.

Ally of who?

Ally of Stan.

re: #91 Ward Cleaver

re: #87 allah this

Anybody with a heart or a soul would be turned off by their cruelty and depravity.

Exactly why it's refreshing to read. Those traits are usually the first casualties if islam!

re: #95 wargammer2005

re: #77 Pro-Bush Canuck

if you are a racist, you are NOT a conservative.

all sites have their trolls, mobies, ect.
(what the plural of moby? mobies or mobys, i know the proper way, but this is the internet)

Unfortunately some people who would self-identify as "conservative" are clearly racists (usually toward blacks). Similarly some who call themselves nominally "Christian" are some of the most un-Christian people imaginable.

The operative word here is "some". I know there are trolls on all sites, however there seems to be a persistent minority of right-wing people who are simply nasty human beings. This is hardly surprising. In any case it is my experience that the vast majority of conservatives are better people overall then the vast majority of leftists.

re: #96 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

I hate to sound like Chen Zen or Cognito, but late in Reagan's term, possibly when he was already suffering early effects of Alzheimers and his assistants were running the show, the US traded weapons to Iran in exchange for Hezb'Allah freeing hostages.

That disappinted me too, but I wonder how much that was initiated by State, rather than the WH.

re: #77 Pro-Bush Canuck

. Non-sequiter about her body-guards being "black scum". (Many US "conservatives" are flat-out racists, there's no escaping it).

Retract that immediately.
It's a despicable, unsubstantiated smear. You want meat? The card-carrying racists have a party - the Democrats. It's a free country, former very active, high-ranking KKK Robert Byrd could be in the GOP, but he's not. Instead, he's an honored member of the Democrats, Pres Pro Temp, ranking member of the Senate. Of the hundreds of thousands of men who've engaged in gambling and dog fighting, over Byrd's entire poltical career, Byrd only unleashed his bile against the latest fellow caught at it. A black guy, evidently seemed to be the lucky chap deserving of the "rot in hell" demand. It's the Democrats who are wanting to be seen with an Ultra-racistic group, La RAZA.
FED UP with the hard Left tactic of smearing everyone else with what they're guilty of!

re: #105 wanumba

re: #77 Pro-Bush Canuck

. Non-sequiter about her body-guards being "black scum". (Many US "conservatives" are flat-out racists, there's no escaping it).

Retract that immediately.
It's a despicable, unsubstantiated smear.

I will not retract that! For one thing I put the term "conservative" in quotes for a reason. If you are telling me that nobody on the right has any flaws then I am more than a little skeptical.

Korea: Something Is About To Happen

Starvation deaths in North Korea have returned to 1990s levels. That means over a thousand people a week dying from lack of food. Over a million people died during the 1990s food shortages. This time around, the shortages are caused by government refusal to allow in food that must have its distribution monitored (making it difficult for the government to divert the food to the army or private sale)...

...Meanwhile, North Korea is full of rumors that leader Kim Jong Il is very sick, and has just had surgery. Kim Jong Il has not been seen much for months, but that is not unusual. But rumors about his health have been circulating, on and off, for over a year.

...No one in the North Korean government can decide what to do. The North Koreans are trying everything, and not settling on any one strategy. The hard liners still have a police state operating, while the reformers have South Korean firms coming in and opening factories, and there are now free markets, with uncontrolled prices, throughout the country. Corruption is way up, and discipline is falling. Something is about to happen, but no one is quite sure what.

So we probably paid a lot of money to Libya. 8 innocent people won't die as a result. Its not all black and white. Sure it would have been great to tell Libya to go f*ck themselves. But then some innocent people would die.

re: #99 realwest

re: #77 Pro-Bush Canuck " Maybe because we're more middle of the road instead of hard right, I dunno."
I'd prefer to think that Charles has cultivated a following of people who actually THINK before they talk and, usually, think analytically. I don't know anything about her, but if what she did put others in potential danger (i.e., driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs) I would want to have her change her ways immediately and if the judicial system says jail, I'm all for it. I'm NOT however, in favor of her being raped, beaten up or anything like that while she's in jail.

Lindsay is in many ways a victim of the cult of celebrity. Before I get reamed for making her another "victim." Let me say she made her bed, lie in it. Second and others like her on are on the same path as Anna Nicole Smith, if they don't figure it out now, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.

We as a society have allowed the "cult of celebrity" develop, news about celebrities sells. Celebrities bad behavior has limited consequences, they can afford the legal help, can check into clinics to avoid penalties. Their jobs aren't affected by the bad behavior. Societally we seem more entertained by celebrity misbehavior than appalled.

FPM says the payout is $400m.

Islam has always had a strong steak of Nihilism. They will keep pushing until stopped.
I am glad that those people are released, but this will just encourage more of the same from Libya and others.
Any agreement made under this type of duress as I understand it, is not binding under international law.
I highly recommend the bombing of Tripoli post haste.

re: #107 Kenneth Good morning my friend. That's an excellent post with link, but I'm not sure of the accuracy of the Strategy Page as a source. I've only visited it when it's been linked to by LGFer's I respect, such as yourself, but it could be, for all I know, no more accurate than Debka.

re: #107 Kenneth

Korea: Something Is About To Happen

Starvation deaths in North Korea have returned to 1990s levels. That means over a thousand people a week dying from lack of food. Over a million people died during the 1990s food shortages. This time around, the shortages are caused by government refusal to allow in food that must have its distribution monitored (making it difficult for the government to divert the food to the army or private sale)...

...Meanwhile, North Korea is full of rumors that leader Kim Jong Il is very sick, and has just had surgery. Kim Jong Il has not been seen much for months, but that is not unusual. But rumors about his health have been circulating, on and off, for over a year.

...No one in the North Korean government can decide what to do. The North Koreans are trying everything, and not settling on any one strategy. The hard liners still have a police state operating, while the reformers have South Korean firms coming in and opening factories, and there are now free markets, with uncontrolled prices, throughout the country. Corruption is way up, and discipline is falling. Something is about to happen, but no one is quite sure what.

If it explodes it will be very, very messy.
If it implodes it be just a mess.

The only thing worse than a Stalinist regime, is the aftermath of a Stalinist regime.

re: #109 jcm "Societally we seem more entertained by celebrity misbehavior than appalled." If you changed the word "entertained" to "fascinated" I think it'd be more accurate, but you're overall comment is definitely Spot On!

B-2 Fitted for Huge Bunker Buster

The U.S. Air Force is developing yet another capability for its 20 B-2 stealth bombers. A new bomb rack is being designed and built so the B-2 can drop the new, 15 ton Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP).

re: #109 jcm

I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for rich alcoholics either. That wasn't my original point. My point was that it is not only on leftist boards that one finds very nasty, gratuitous remarks about a human being which go far beyond what is appropriate. Lindsay Lohan deserves to spend some serious time in jail, but she does not deserve to be raped or killed.

re: #115 Kenneth Please see my 112.

re: #116 Pro-Bush Canuck Would you agree with my comment # 99, then?

re: #112 realwest

Good day to you, Real. Strategy Page is much more reliable. For one thing, their reports are much more circumspect and less "ambitious" than DebkaFile. SP's 2 main writers, Jim Dunnigan & Austin Bay, have good contacts in military intel and are both fine writers. I've been reading SP for a few years now, and they haven't gotten anything wrong yet.

re: #108 sesshoumaru: So we probably paid a lot of money to Libya. 8 innocent people won't die as a result. Its not all black and white. Sure it would have been great to tell Libya to go f*ck themselves. But then some innocent people would die.

As if "pay or die" were the only alternative.

How about a hostage rescue operation? How about treating Libya's casus bellum seriously? How about refusing to negotiate and demanding their surrender under threat of NATO military action? How about finally settling the Lockerbie bombing accounts?

"So"? So, now someone elses loved ones will have to pay more blood money. Nice deal.

Terrorism still pays: handsomely.

re: #117 realwest

I saw it.

re: #119 Kenneth Thanks! I'll go bookmark them now!

re: #97 Kenneth

Of Europe.

Of ours.

Just wait for the "he understands that our enemies want him dead too," line of BS.

re: #106 Pro-Bush Canuck
Oh, QUOTES makes it better? "conservatives" are racists, that's a fact.
Think you might harbor prejudice against Americans? Working off a lazy stereotype? That's what's oozing out right now and it's despicable.
Met enough racist Canadians in my day. Amazing what one hears when people think no one's listening. How do I label them to your comfort? "Canadians?" Had my kids cursed out on a daily basis by Canadian kids - incredibly in a FRENCH SCHOOL - for the "crime" of being American. The French, Francophone Africans, Indians, Lebanese all got along with our kids - famously - even electing one to be class delegate to represent them to the school administration. The Canadians shunned them - only to approach them to insult. From several families, not one, they stood out in among an international grouping of kids as shockingly potty-mouthed and hostile. Got to socialize with the parents in the evenings, sitting primly under the stars, being sociable, watching their kids stalk past, thinking, "You all seem so nice, but do you know what your little darlings do all day to our kids? You're so sweet and pleasant, but who taught them to swear, shove and curse American kids?"
Tried of the smug, so superior attitude.
You don't want to retract or apologize, say you meant to clarify, fine, tells everyone who you really are.

re: #118 realwest

Definitely.

re: #124 wanumba

GAZE

re: #126 Pro-Bush Canuck
Cheap dodge.

re: #6 Terp Mole

FrontPage Magazine summarizes the disgraceful affair today:

Libyan Hell For Bulgarian Sisters Of Mercy

Were these nurses from the Sisters of Mercy religious nursing order? There's no explanation as to why FrontPage refers to "Sisters of Mercy". I've seen one reference that the "Palestinian" doctor is a Christian, and another in Wikipedia that he is a Bulgarian citizen. But there's very little background detail on the central characters in this barbarous drama.

re: #127 wanumba

If you want to discuss my points without the angry demands and slurs then fine. BTW, this has nothing to do with US pe se, there are plenty of asshole conservatives in Canada too. Actually the real disease in Canada is "atheist conservatives".

re: #123 Ben Hur

In what sense is Libya an ally of either Europe or the US? Libya is not in NATO or in the EU. Kaddafi just got let out of the doghouse, but he has not been invited into the main house. And this latest piece of business will slow down the already slow reaproachment.

re: #129 Pro-Bush Canuck
Go back and read your post and see how many arrogant holier than thou statements YOU made. You slurred Christians and conservatives and praised the stars you're rational, reasonable and not part of the "hard right."
And you're surprised enough by my protest to insinuate that I'm a troll?
Who's engaging in smears and slurs?

The numbers clearly show the Surge is working,

The "surge" offensive in and around Baghdad is paying off, at least according to the casualties and bombs going off. In April, May and June, there were about four American combat deaths a day, but that is down to 2.7 for July. The main reason is that there are fewer roadside bombs (IEDs), and the reason for that is more of the IED factories, and specialists that make and plant them, are being taken out of action. Iraqi security forces and civilians are also suffering fewer casualties (from 3,000 in February to about 1000 for July).

...but you won't see this analysis in the "news" media

re: #77 Pro-Bush Canuck

Leftists are depraved, but sometimes my fellow conservatives can be pretty nasty human beings as well. One of the reasons I come to LGF is that people here generally seem far less cruel-hearted, vindictive and cynical than is the case with many "conservatives".

A quick scan of comments on a popular conservative news site in connection with the Lindsay Lohan DUI arrest included the following sentiments:

1. Non-sequiter about her body-guards being "black scum". (Many US "conservatives" are flat-out racists, there's no escaping it).

2. Prospect of her getting sexually assaulted or raped in prison "looks promising"

3. Several posters simply wish death upon Lindsay Lohan.

4. Epithets, names, and general nastiness too numerous to count.

Many of these people no doubt would claim to be Christian. That claim looks pretty worthless these days. Obviously I'm not approving of what that poor, sick girl is doing to herself and others, but the lack of any hint of compassion and the sheer malevolence of many "conservatives" is extremely disheartening to me.

Thank God LGFers do not seem to follow this pattern. Maybe because we're more middle of the road instead of hard right, I dunno.

I think you're being incredibly negative about both libs and conservatives. The vast majority of regular people I meet from day to day here in Baltimore, no matter their race, religion, or choice of music, are good people. Don't judge the average Joe by people who post on blogs to say nasty things about an obviously troubled young lady with too much money and fame too soon (ask Danny Bonnaducci about that).

I also think we can safely say that people who post offhand nasty things about people like Ms. Lohan have a personal agenda to do so. They just want to be disrespectful, nasty, and puff out their skinny chests. If they disrespected like that on the street someone would pop a cap on their ass, so they do it anonymously. People like that are not worth worrying about - I try to avoid them. Few people like that post here with any regularity, and when they do, I ignore them.

LGF is a pretty esoteric group of folks with a few common threads and a heavy helping of smarts. Me - I am pro-Israel and conservative in some ways, but wildly not conservative in other ways. That doesn't mean I'm middle of the road. I think it is a pointless exercise to try to pigeonhole people like that. I've never fit in one of those holes - I'm not a pigeon.

It appears Aid was offered by the EU.
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

This is just like in the barbary wars of the early 1800s where Muslims would kidnak European and American sailors for ransom.

re: #28 realwest

Bearster Oh, I don't know about that.
What do you think he should have done?

I think he should have declared war (when they murdered Americans, that was an act of war) and then crushed them.

He would also have set a precedent that maybe his VP would have used when he became president and fought Iraq the first time around: declare war and finish the job; don't leave a murderous dictator alive after you fight him.

re: #108 sesshoumaru

So we probably paid a lot of money to Libya. 8 innocent people won't die as a result. Its not all black and white. Sure it would have been great to tell Libya to go f*ck themselves. But then some innocent people would die.

The siren song of pragmatism. Buy peace for a moment at the price of surrender tomorrow. But pragmatism does not think about tomorrow.

It would have been great if the countries whose hostages were taken went in and crushed Libya. Picture the firebombing of Dresden day in and day out. Hundreds of thousands or millions of Libyans dead, the rest living in terror.

Picture them begging "please, please PLEASE stop the killing--we will surrender without even knowing the conditions you will demands--but please just make it stop!"

That is how you handle hostage-takers and other aggressive, violent acts of war. That is how you protect the lives of all the other innocent people who have not yet been taken hostage.

Reagan did not handle Iran like this, nor Lebanon, nor Libya. He should have, and today we're paying the price for his failure (and Bush the Elder's and Clinton's and Bush the Younger's).

Libya & the EU:

How Not to Deal With Gaddafi, Repeat:

HOW NOT TO DEAL WITH GADDAFI:

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

re: #135 Bearster

declare war and finish the job; don't leave a murderous dictator alive after you fight him.

I don't know why we've lost the importance of this strategy. It's a real good 'un and it's well-known - ever since Shakespeare reduced it to print in Titus Andronicus. I like Ann Coulter's idea that we invade these clowns' territory, hang all their leaders, and force the citizens convert to Christianity. Or Judaism, if you've got the energy. Either suits me fine. Christianity is easier since it's less complicated. They'll calm down after a few generations. Either way, stop playing nice with these beasts.

re: #108 sesshoumaru

So we probably paid a lot of money to Libya. 8 innocent people won't die as a result. Its not all black and white. Sure it would have been great to tell Libya to go f*ck themselves. But then some innocent people would die.

I'm sorry, not so.

Kidnapping for ransom, like terrorism is at its heart blackmail. Give in to blackmail once, and then you're fair game. These people will pay $400M for eight people? next time let's kidnap 16 and demand $1B. Too much? next time let's kidnap 16 and demand $900M.

The way to keep this from happening is not to play their game, but to deal with the hostage takers in such a way that their surviving friend and relatives will not repeat this business. But this is precisely what we are not doing.

#108 sesshoumaru,

Its not all black and white.

? You think they gave gray AIDS to the kids?

I am glad to hear thast the travesty has been averted....But, can't something be done about Ghadorki?

Weren't the Bulgarians known for their high-quality wet work in the Soviet sphere? We can hope they are about to re-hone those skills on dear ol' Mulehammer. Reason 267 that Ghaddafi Duck deserves a C4 enema.

Is there any hope that the Euros will send a $400 million candy gram to the Colonel's tent instead?

Compare and contrast- Western medics trying to help and the treatment they get in the sandpit to the behavoir of various muslime medics at Scottish airports. I dunno, could it be Satan?

re: #53 American Jewess In Jerusalem

Once again . . . do gooders need to STAY HOME. Do not go to work or volunteer in barbaric Muslim lands.

I am glad that these poor nurses and the doctor were released, but what a horrific ordeal for them. The women were raped, among other tortures. I'm beyond disgusted that Libya walks away with its buckets full of money and goodies and now world leaders are stepping all over themselves to see who can be the first to "normalize ties" with Libya. WTH? I don't even know what world I'm living in anymore. Once those nurses were safely on Bulgarian soil, Libya should have been decimated from the air -- to hell with civilians. The ONLY thing that Muslims understand is FORCE. History has proven this again and again. If a country knew that it would be destroyed for kidnapping, torturing, raping innocent visitors and guest workers, and extorting millions of dollars for their release, it would behave. Period. Instead, wow, what a deal! A lot of barbaric countries are looking to Libya with new admiration and respect and an intent to emulate.

Courtesy of the dhimmis at the eu. I too am glad these poor people are freed, and I understand the eu has even banned words to appease islamists, but have they banned the word "precedent"? Or do they not understand Pavlov's theory? They've reinforced a negative behavior, so we will see more of it.

re: #96 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

I hate to sound like Chen Zen or Cognito, but late in Reagan's term, possibly when he was already suffering early effects of Alzheimers and his assistants were running the show, the US traded weapons to Iran in exchange for Hezb'Allah freeing hostages.

It should have stopped as soon as Hezb'Allah kidnapped new Americans so their masters in Tehran could demand more weapons, but it didn't.

Paying ransom always encourages more kidnapping. I hope the EU bans travel of all its citizens, including oil field workers, to Libya, so they don't have more potential hostages to seize.

Libya's oil field will probably collapse without Westerners to run it. Unless, of course, they invite in the Chinese. Which they probably will. But I don't think Chinese technology is as good as ours.

Why would that "sound like" me? You and a number of other folks apparently think I'm leftist just because of what I do -- I'm not. I'm conservative.

Yes, it is a dead thread now, but I still need to vent. I commented earlier and had to leave but now am back.

And to anyone who cares. I am an American citizen married to a Bulgarian citizen. My son has dual citizenship. And I love Bulgaria, I've been there many times and have traveled though out the country, and was married in Plovdiv.

I am so glad that they are released, but....
why did it happen?

Because even though Bulgaria is part of NATO, the US won't protect them. (and I am so disappointed by this). The US is using Bulgaria. We are using them as just a base in the region. I wish I could say otherwise.

Even though Bulgaria is part of the EU they won't protect them either...

you might say that the EU is the entity that got the hostages released. OK, you are right. The US did nothing to help. But if you look at the reports today, every (and I mean EVERY) statement made by an EU Representative states that they are GLAD this 'INCIDENT' is over so that they can normalize relations and open trade.

OPEN TRADE. That is what this is about. The EU came out and basically said that this 'issue' is what has been holding back trade between the EU and Libya.

But this is not an 'issue'. This is the kidnapping, hostage taking and torture of another countries citizens.

That is why the EU paid off Qaddafi. To open trade and push this tiny little incident under the rug.

re: #145 kerr avon
Your frsutration is correct and understandable.
Read "To The Shores of Tripoli" by A.B.C. Whipple
Paying ransom to Barbary Pirate States is not the solution. They just pick up more hostages and jack up the price whenever they want something.

NYTimes reports Kaddafi's affection for models sealed yesterday's extortion deal;

Libya’s Release of 6 Prisoners Raises Criticism

Freeing the medical workers was one of Mr. Sarkozy’s campaign promises. After his election as president of France in May, Mr. Sarkozy, who had visited Libya when he was interior minister, promised Colonel Qaddafi in telephone conversations that he would go back as soon as the medical workers were freed. It was then that Colonel Qaddafi invited Mrs. Sarkozy.

Mrs. Sarkozy apparently charmed the colonel during a first encounter in Libya earlier this month, conducted without the presence of aides.

Would you leave your (former model) trophy wife along with this rogue?

LGF Flashback: Dictator on the Make

These photos from the Libyan beauty pageant mentioned below are such surreal jaw-droppers I had to make copies, because who knows how long they’ll be available on the Miss Net World 2002 site? I’ve included the original captions. This is true comedy gold.

Apparently, France's president is a free thinker;

Sarkozy seeks deeper Libya ties

PARIS (Reuters) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy travels to Libya on Wednesday, seeking to deepen political and commercial links with the oil-rich nation after helping to free six foreign medics whose detention soured ties with the West.

I know... it's an ugly word picture.

Update: Kaddafi's hostage extortion price disclosed... Fwance promises nuclear reactor jizya;

Sarkozy: Trust Arabs with nukes

After agreeing to nuclear cooperation with Libya, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the West should trust Arab states to develop such technology for peaceful purposes or risk a war of civilizations.

France agreed on Wednesday to help Libya develop a nuclear reactor to supply drinking water from desalinated sea water. The reactor might be supplied by French atomic energy firm Areva.

Sarkozy told reporters in Libya that to consider the Arab world "is not sensible enough to use civilian nuclear power" would, in the long run, risk a "war of civilizations".

"Nuclear power is the energy of the future," he said. "If we don't give the energy of the future to the countries of the southern Mediterranean, how will they develop themselves? And if they don't develop, how will we fight terrorism and fanaticism?"

And if we don't submit willingly now, how will we avoid jihad later?

fjordman could not have been more prescient;

...France is now held hostage by the very forces she herself set in motion. The Jihad riots by Muslim immigrants in France in 2005 demonstrated that Eurabia is no longer a matter of French foreign policy, it is now French domestic policy. France will burn unless she continues to appease Arabs and agree to their agenda.

/dhimmitude on stilts