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Ohio Terrorist's Attorney: 'With All Due Respect to America and Americans...'
Thu, Aug 2, 2007 at 12:20:53 pm PDT
In our earlier post on this subject, the lawyer for the terrorist who pleaded guilty to planning an attack on an Ohio shopping mall was reported to have said some rather inflammatory things.
But the Associated Press report didn’t contain any actual quotes from attorney Mahir Sherif, oddly enough. Here’s how they wrote it up:
Mahir Sherif says Nuradin Abdi was worried about a jury’s reaction given the country’s current mood.
He says Abdi would not have faced a jury of his peers but rather people with only limited understanding of the issues surrounding the war on terror.
And here’s what Sharif (who seems to own two different spellings of his name) really said, from WBNS-10TV:
Abdi’s attorney spoke with reporters following his client’s hearing.
“It’s better to minimize your losses,” said Mahir Sharif. “He has a life ahead of him. Let’s face it, with all due respect to America and Americans, the jury he was going to face are not his peers.”
When asked if his client would testify in any other cases, Sharif said he would not.
“He said, ‘I am a Muslim I’m not going to go in front of the government and testify against any other Muslims,’” Sharif said.
More from the Columbus Dispatch: Somali man pleads guilty to plot.
“It’s better to minimize his losses,” defense attorney Mahir Sherif said. A fair trial here would not be possible because Americans “have no or limited understanding” of why Muslims are angry, Sherif said.
The terrorism plot was little more than rants by three Muslims who were angry with the Iraqi war and problems in Afghanistan, he said. “There was nothing they were going to carry out,” Sherif said.
But prosecutors say that was only because they were stopped. ...
After the plea, Sherif said the case should prompt people to ask: Why do Muslims hate Americans?
“I’m angry. If 1 million Americans were being slaughtered, that would be a different issue,” Sherif said, of Iraqis killed in the war.
UPDATE at 8/2/07 2:57:10 pm:
Dirk Thompson has made a complete transcript of these outrageous comments, and it’s even worse...
REPORTER: Why did you say that to him?
SHERIF: Because, I honestly don’t believe that this rises to the level of a conspiracy that they are talking about. I mean it’s just a bunch of people talking and he wanted to go and help out Muslims, just like the United States encouraged all these guys to go and help the Muslims fight the Russians. Right? So, why’s it right when the United States chooses to engage all these Muslims to go fight the Russians, but when the Muslim want to help their brothers, what’s so wrong about that? This is hypocritical again, isn’t it? This is what the world is pissed off about the United States is this hypocrisy. You can fight for us – it is not a crime. You fight for your Muslims it’s a crime. Anything else?
REPORTER: But wasn’t he pleading guilty to a threat against a shopping mall here?
SHERIF: No, no, no. If you heard it correctly, it said they talked about that. Arora can speak to that.
ARORA: Yeah, he admitted that he testified under oath that that’s what happened. He didn’t admit that’s what happened. He’s never said that that conversation actually occurred during this plea agreement. He’s just saying that he said that in immigration hearings. Not said that the conversation happened or that there was any plans for any Americans.
REPORTER: So what did he exactly plead guilty to?
SHERIF: Count 1. Read count 1. It’s the conspiracy count. All this.. all this .. I mean go get the paperwork and read it.
REPORTER: To help Christopher Paul?
SHERIF: Well it’s Christopher Paul and Iyman Harris and him and you know. They talked and yeah, he went to go get training. We didn’t deny that. He went to Somalia. He tried to go to Kosov. He tried to go to Bosnia. You know we didn’t deny that. There are some facts we can’t deny. They talked. There was a range finder obviously. So, in this climate an American jury we felt could potentially find him guilty because of all this negative stuff that’s coming in and if they found him guilty he was looking at spending the rest of his life in custody. So, the government came back with another offer, so he decided ah.. to take it.”
REPORTER: Does Mr. Abdi plan to testify against other co-conspirators?
SHERIF: No. That was actually the point he had always not wanted to do because it violates Islamic principals to testify against other Muslims. So he said, “I am a Muslim. I’m not going to go in front of the government and testify against any other Muslims.
REPORTER: Well couldn’t this protect other Americans by doing so?
SHERIF: You asked me a question if he was going to testify against others and I answered it. You are asking a different question.
REPORTER: Do you think he could protect other Americans by him testifying against them?
SHERIF: That’s a different question, any other questions?
REPORTER: Why was he so angry about the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan? What was it that so angered about him that he wanted to carryout ...
SHERIF: I AM ANGRY AT THAT WAR! AREN’T YOU ANGRY ? A MILLION IRAQIS HAVE BEEN SLAUGHTERED BY OUR BOMBS! YOU’RE NOT ANGRY ABOUT THAT??
REPORTER: But you didn’t plan to kill Americans.
SHERIF: No, no, no! That’s a different issue. ‘Why are you angry?’ was the question. I am angry. A million Iraqis! If a million Americans were slaughtered today, are you going to get pissed off? Sure you’re going to get pissed off. So wait a minute...
REPORTER: We wouldn’t conspire to blow up a mall or kill people.
SHERIF: That’s a different issue. You’re asking why is he angry and I’m answering your question. If a million Americans were slaughtered today, you’d get pissed off. But not all Americans would go and try to bomb a mall. But some of them might.
REPORTER1: So why would he do that?
REPORTER2: Why are you ducking the issue sir?
REPORTER1: Why would he do that? Why would he decide to take innocent life?
SHERIF: Look... life, life – life is life. Life is life. An Iraqi life is just as good as an American life. When American bombs are slaughtering innocent Iraqis, Americans are saying ‘Muslims should not get pissed’. I don’t understand this logic. I mean, these are human beings we’re talking about and Muslims are going to get pissed if you go and slaughter them. Simple!
REPORTER: What drove him to be so angry that he suggested blowing up a mall?
AURA: He didn’t say that he suggested it.
REPORTER: But the government says that he planned.. that he had co-conspirators that planned to use an AK 47 to shoot up a shopping mall.
AURA: No, no.. He’s agreeing that that’s what he told the investigators. He’s denying that is what happened, that that conversation never occurred.
REPORTER: Why would he tell them that?
REPORTER2: Why would he say that Mr. SHERIF if that never happened?
ARORA: Well, if you were locked up in solitary confinement what would you do?
REPORTER2: Then why plead today if he honestly didn’t do the things it was charged he did?
SHERIF: It’s better to minimize your losses. He has a life ahead of him. Let’s face it, with all due respect to America and Americans, the jury he was going to face are not his peers. We’re not talking about a bunch of Somalis coming in to hear the case. We’re talking the Bible Belt. We’re talking people who have no understanding – excuse me – maybe limited understanding – some of them of some of the issues and who have a lot of maybe negative feelings about Islam and Muslims as a whole. Therefore he decided to minimize his losses.
REPORTER2: Mr. SHERIF, will he testify against Christopher Paul?
SHERIF: No.
REPORTER2: He will not?
SHERIF: No.
REPORTER: Did he admit that on his trip to Ethiopia he was in search of a training camp?
SHERIF: Yes, yes. That was in search of a training camp. But remember, you guys have to remember this: When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979 it is because we set what is called the ‘Soviet Trap’. You know, the ‘Afghan Trap’ for the Soviets to come in. We, the United States did that. Okay? So the Soviets came in. Then we encouraged the Muslim world to go and fight the Russians. We did this. Are we taking any responsibility for this? So in other words there is nothing wrong about going to training if you’re going to fight for Americans against Russians. But if you are going to go train to help your Muslim brothers, there’s something wrong.
REPORTER: So how do you define him? They called him a terrorist. Do you?
SHERIF: No.
REPORTER: How do you define this man?
SHERIF: Well, terrorism is a complex issue. You know? If you read you read some authors they would tell you that the United States is a terrorist state. So terrorism is a difficult question.
REPORTER: In the end, did he admit more or less to ramblings, to rants about wanting to take revenge on America?
SHERIF: Yes. (long pause)
REPORTER: Okay... Was the defense that these were simply ramblings and not actual plans to be carried out?
SHERIF: Pretty much.
REPORTER: You say pretty much, but not totally though.
SHERIF: No. There was nothing that they were going to carry out. Nothing in there.
REPORTER: You often get your clients off on these –
SHERIF: That’s not true!
REPORTER: No, you have some pleas in your past. Is that your advice to him to plead today?
SHERIF: No, I actually told him he should go to trial.
REPORTER: What were you hoping to find out in this trial yourself?
SHERIF: Surprises (laughs)
REPORTER: Does it matter now?
SHERIF: No it doesn’t matter. Does it?
REPORTER: What do you think Imam Faris would have said?
SHERIF: It doesn’t matter now does it?
REPORTER: Yes, because there are other co-conspirators alleged as I said. So the evidence they would have presented could have been of interest to the American public. What specifically were you looking to see?
SHERIF: It could have. I think the American public, if anything .. (laugh) I keep coming back to this. The American should go read about the war in Afghanistan. Should go read , and really I mean this. I don’t support terrorism, and I don’t support the killing of civilians be it by Bin Ladin or by American bombs. Okay? They both slaughter! Now, with that said: The American public needs to go and say ‘why are they angry’. And really, if you read Bin Ladins words you can see why people are angry. They are angry because America is doing things they should not be doing! That’s why they’re angry! But we are not talking about that. We’re just talking about Islamic radicalism. Why can’t we talk about imperial radicalism that has been subjecting muslims to hardship for the last 50 years? We need to start talking about that!
REPORTER: With all due respect, we’re hear for a criminal case were a man is charged with wanting to hurt Americans and foreigners.
SHERIF: True and I’m answering your questions.
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