Excellent! Shine the light on these cockroaches!

I saw on BBC that Mr. Flaming Torch in Glasgow has died.

And I didn't say the word [deleted].

Go Spencer and YAF! Good show mates!

NICE...

We will not be intimidated by radical Islamic thugs... CAIR can to to hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.

Tell 'em.

re: #2 PeaceBeUponHim

I saw on BBC that Mr. Flaming Torch in Glasgow has died.

Yes Charles, I know you just kicked off two threads, but we really need a roasted jihadi thread.

I'm worried that deleted will become the new first.

So kiss me, CAIR. Rat Cheer.

Tellin' it like it is

Just watched the video.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Suck it, CAIR!

Who gives a CAIR?
Only God knows how I couldn't CAIR less.

any others?

Brit Hume is a pretty level guy, but he enjoy that quote.

Thank you, Young America -- maybe it will wake up some of us Old America.

re: #9 bulwrk

I'm worried that deleted will become the new first.

Or all threads will start with comment #2. Then people will scream, "Second!'.

/deleted

Spencer's final words in his speech.

“Come and kill me if you want, but I’m not going to submit.”

Excellent that this issue got national exposure.

Now, Paula Zahn should give Mr. Spencer air time to refute Dougie's slanderous statements.

It's not enough to CAIR...you have to CAIR enough!

Go YAF! Fabulous, someone needs to hire that guy/girl as a Republican speech writer.

re: #14 jcm

Brit Hume is a pretty level guy, but he enjoy that quote.

Yeah, he enjoyed reading that.

re: #21 wvobiwan

Go YAF! Fabulous, someone needs to hire that guy/girl as a Republican speech writer.

I got it! Rudy's new communication director!

25th!

YAF- I feel this compelling urge to buy these fellas a beer!

re: #23 Ward Cleaver

re: #21 wvobiwan

Go YAF! Fabulous, someone needs to hire that guy/girl as a Republican speech writer.

I got it! Rudy's new communication director!

Rudy couldn't lose with ripostes like that.

ha ha ha ha. it's like a 3 year old getting a spanking from their mom. sCAIR doesn't seem so tough after getting talked to like this.

Now Mr. CAIR lawyer has a lot of work to do for the upcoming S-CAIRsuit...

re: #18 new2thezoo

Wow.
That's intense.
Hopefully we'll be able to see the speech that was given.

As non native english speaker love the way it sounds!.

There's a website that sells items that have an Arabic statement on them, with the English translation below: I will not submit. I bought a bunch of the magnets and have been passing them out to folks. They're a big hit.

re: #17 Ward Cleaver

Were stuck in a quagmire.

Word! The YAF did the right thing and told CAIR where they could go - literally! What an inspiration! CAIR will make other attempts to stifle free speech and debate, and the YAF's courageous attitude should embolden folks who are threatened by them.

Sweeettt!
That's the way to fight them!
Forget the Koran flushing and burning!

CAIR's debate point:

SHUT UP OR I'LL SUE!

Hooper try this one, it might work better:
Put you left index finger in your left ear, your right index finger in your right ear and sing LALALALALALALALALA.

Gooo Jaaason!

my new hero!

Joel Mowbray at FPM.

We ALL need to be in people's faces with facts and straight talk.
PC has resulted in enough deaths.
Thugs rely on the public being PC so they can continue to bully their way to the achievement of their goals and agendas.

Hey CAIR - many would say that iSlam is a Cult of Death, absolutely not a religion. I know of no other religions that calls for death of people who believe differently or for those who choose to escape their "religion."

I can hear Ibrahim's cheeks reddening from here...

Classic!

Every time CAIR issues a statement, somebody should sue them for the intentional inflicition of emotional harm/distress.

"We will not be intimidated by Islamic thugs.."

Jason Mattera
Young America's Foundation

The Young America Foundation refusing to cave to CAIR threats and intimidation: PRICELESS

As Hitchens says to Hooper...
"get used to it".

re: #38 Confuzed

iSlam is a Cult of Death, absolutely not a religion. I know of no other religions that calls for death of people who believe differently or for those who choose to escape their "religion."

That also sounds good to me.

I think some muslims watched one too many American movies where they used the phrase "so sue me" and got the idea that they can get whatever they want by suing people.

re: #18 new2thezoo

Spencer's final words in his speech.

“Come and kill me if you want, but I’m not going to submit.”

"You cannot enslave a free man. You can only kill him."
-Robert Heinlein

Robert Spencer is a free man, and doesn't CAIR who knows it.

cheers

eon

Brit Hume reporting the story:

Like gold, Jerry, like gold.

/Seinfeld

This site seems to have parts of Spencer's speech:

Or you can sue me now, or sue the YAF, and try to silence me. But you won't be able to sue or silence all the American people who are deeply concerned about what you are doing. ...

[Link: video1.washingtontimes.com...]

This is the proper response to CAIR. So refreshing to see it used.

re: #3 Ward Cleaver

Ward, its great that you got the absolutest best seat in the house.

re: #45 bosforus Actually, they got the idea from the ACLU and the Southern Poverty Law Center.

COOL

If by speaking the truth about islam Mr. Spencer is promoting hatred against muslims, then put my name down right after his. I will not submit and I will not shut up.

That is B E A Utiful

What's the difference between a glass wrench and Ibrahim Hooper?

Everytime CAIR threatens to sue someone, this should be the standard response.

re: #30 potatoes omelette

where are you from?

re: #53 Sharmuta

If by speaking the truth about islam Mr. Spencer is promoting hatred against muslims, then put my name down right after his. I will not submit and I will not shut up.

Me too.

Only my momma can get me to sit down and shut up - CAIR is not in the that league, by a long shot.

Awesome. Great job by YAF. Am proud of them!

re: #51 mickthemick

Ah yes, the ACLU. A very fine role model for CAIR. I wonder if they'll take any time away from their usual schedule of finding problems with Christianity and lend a hand to CAIR. I doubt it.

I've heard this Jason Mattera kid on the radio before. Think a male Atlas, same accent, attitude, the whole bit. Love it!

It is so nice hearing some one tell this group of radical jihad supporters what to do and where to go. Done real classy like to.

re: #45 bosforus

re: #51 mickthemick

Well, wherever they got the idea, it's a model that's been used for years and years by this and that group to slowly pick away at our freedoms and our way of life in general - they keep yelling and suing and eventually they gain a little traction, then a little more, and in 20 years - things are mighty different.

Did I just hear that the first Republican debates will be on Sunday morning?!

Are they all Stupids?

Michelle Malkin has more, live:

This is America, not Saudi Arabia. And in America, we have something called the Bill of Rights. We advise you to review amendments one and two...We are bringing you the speaker that CAIR doesn’t want you to hear...Robert Spencer.

[Link: michellemalkin.com...]

Someone ought to make T shirts with that quote on it..
priceless!

Can we be happy for 5 minutes before we hear about the next capitulation to dhimmitude!?

CAIR has a few job openings. They are looking to hire---attorneys!

go YAF
go Spencer
go Hitchens
go Chaz-the-man (so much cooler than just 'charles')
go lizards

SKorea focuses anger over hostages on US
Ingrates. Let ‘em eat grass in Kim’s paradise.

"This is America, not Saudi Arabia..."

Too good. Say it again.

by the by.

Every time I have had to actually work today, I've come back and there's one or two new topics. way too fast for me.

re: #61 bikermailman

of course he's outspoken..He's a New Yawka like me..heh..and from Brooklyn too!

Fuggetaboutit!

OT

Shep Smith just reported US gov't asking all states, etc. to check ALL bridges...more to come.

re: #63 reine.de.tout

good point. they turn into a political party, start rewriting history, and the cycle happens all over again.

re: #66 Angel

Someone ought to make T shirts with that quote on it..
priceless!

Can we be happy for 5 minutes before we hear about the next capitulation to dhimmitude!?

What quote? There are shirts available with the Arabic and English "I Will Not Submit".

re: #42 song_and_dance_man

How long before a FOX Fatwa?

Ibn Rushd, in his Muqaddimaat, divides Jihad into four kinds: "Jihad by the heart; Jihad by the tongue; Jihad by the hand and Jihad by the sword." He defines "Jihad by the tongue" as "to commend good conduct and forbid the wrong, like the type of Jihad Allah (swt) ordered us to fulfill against the hypocrites in His Words, “O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites” [9:73].

[Link: www.sunnah.org...]

Jihad of the Tongue?

re: #67 IrishEi

attorneys? they need to start hiring members!

me and nelson in unison..."ha,,...ha..."

i love this country and all of the freedom lovers in it!...the rest of em...

re: #63 reine.de.tout

Incrementalism cuts both ways.

I have Robert Spencer and Daniel Ali's book Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics. Interesting, thoughtful and level headed - everything that CAIR isn't.

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel

SKorea focuses anger over hostages on US
Ingrates. Let ‘em eat grass in Kim’s paradise.

Why are they mad at the US? So if they were held up at gunpoint they'd be mad at Glock?

Pussies.

Thank you Charles, bits like this gives me hope again that western civilization might survive the Grand Jihad

re: #75 reine.de.tout

CA-IR can go to Hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them!..

o gosh each time I read it I get giddier!

re: #76 Ginn

re: #42 song_and_dance_man

How long before a FOX Fatwa?

Ibn Rushd, in his Muqaddimaat, divides Jihad into four kinds: "Jihad by the heart; Jihad by the tongue; Jihad by the hand and Jihad by the sword." He defines "Jihad by the tongue" as "to commend good conduct and forbid the wrong, like the type of Jihad Allah (swt) ordered us to fulfill against the hypocrites in His Words, “O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites” [9:73].

[Link: www.sunnah.org...]

Jihad of the Tongue?

I probably shouldn't go here "Jihadlingus"

re: #77 bosforus

hahahahahahahaaa
lol!

This and Hitchens saying to Hooper that sharia does not belong in the US.

Hooper must be fit to be tied.

And when the kid at PACE gets off, he will really go ballistic!

On CNN

Ibrahim: Mr. Natalie continues to set up the "false premise."

Natalie: I will not be intimidated by radical Islamic thugs. CAIR can go to hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.

Ibrahim: Mr. Natalie is a Islamophobe setting things up under the "false premise."

Wolf: Mr. Natalie, would you care to respond?

Natalie: I will not be intimidated by radical Islamic thugs. CAIR can go to hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.

Ibrahim: Mr. Natalie, do you or do you not support militant Jews? I ask you Mr. Natalie, tell the audience the truth.

Natalie: I will not be intimidated by radical Islamic thugs. CAIR can go to hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.

Wolf: Mr. Natalie, it seems a very simple question. Do you have any further comments?

Natalie: Yes, yes I do wolfman. Allahu Akbar! I will not be intimidated by radical Islamic thugs. CNN can go to hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.

CAIR vs. Cass Ballenger. Ballenger, a North Carolina Republican congressman, called CAIR "the fund-raising arm for Hezbollah" and raised the possibility that it would try to blow up the Capitol Building. CAIR responded with a $2 million defamation suit. March 31, 2005 update: CAIR's effort to block the freedom of speech of an elected representative was thrown out of court by U.S. District Judge Richard Leon. Ballenger's response? "Happy days are here again."

[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

re: #65 EC Marm

Robert Spencer:
“CAIR is unusual in its extreme rhetoric and association with those who are suspect”
...I’d like to say to CAIR’s lawyers that that’s not my statement. It was said by Rep. Richard Durbin.

“CAIR has ties to terrorism...”

That was Rep. Charles Schumer.

“...nothing more than a apologist for groups bent on destroying Israel...”

That was Republican Rep. Bill Shuster.

Genius. Sheer genius.

Woot woot woot!

Spencer on with Tom Marr on the Mark Levin Show. Streaming can be found here

Bravo! for the YAF organizers! More people should stand up and tell CAIR and their thugs to piss off! Too many people let they jackbooted asshats at CAIR get their way by letting their intimidation tactics in their war AGAINST the First Amendment get their way!

re: #76 Ginn

Jihad of the Tongue?

Islamic obfuscation is still a form of taqiyya.

Jeez, my post #92 has some of the worst grammar I've ever used! Sorry!

re: #93 Sharmuta

re: #76 Ginn

Jihad of the Tongue?

Islamic obfuscation is still a form of taqiyya.

Specialists at Legal intimidation. I read Daniel Pipes. CAIR announced it raised a million bucks in one month to defend Muslims in the court of "public opinion." This sounds to me as if they are a perpetual fund raising org. They file a lawsuit or make threats in order to raise more money.

Was just reading this over at Michelles' blog, wow!

A stunning address, Mr. Spencer... I salute you!

re: #95 Ginn

We could turn it into a drinking game, they file so many claims.

best line from mr. mowbray:

"If only CAIR could muster the same contempt—or any contempt, for that matter—for Islamic terrorists."

The way it should be. CAIR is testing the waters for making spekaing out against islam a crime like in their tribe with a flag countries.

re: #96 Irish Rose

Was just reading this over at Michelles' blog, wow!

A stunning address, Mr. Spencer... I salute you!

Makes one want to stand up and cheer.

I think I will.

I just hope CSpan's cameras were there! Could there be a replay during the weekend?

CAIR
Council Of American Islamic Radicals

This year's Fiskie Anti-Idiotarian award contest is shaping up to be a tough one, as Jason Mattera & Robert Spencer just jumped to the lead, IMO.

That quote is priceless -- analogous to punching the schoolyard bully square in the nose. Way to go, gentlemen!

re: #103 jonturner

Oooh I wonder if Hoooper felt emasculated.

woot!
Spencer on the Mark Levin show..too bad Mark's out tonight!

CAIR and whatever the number of Muslims it represents (a few thousand paid-up members or the silent millions since there have been no voices raised saying CAIR doesn't represent the Muslim point of view) just don't get it. They live in Western countries in a sea of freedom and liberties that they despise and cannot fathom. They just don't get that their hyper-easily-offended selves and sharia law do not rule here. Freedom of speech does.

However, they have been enabled in their conceit that all countries must revolve around their petty selves by their fellow control freaks, the Left. The machinery of human rights is now daily abused by politically correct interpreters who keep pushing a "right" that cannot exist in a free society- never to be offended.

CAIR's basic premise should be laughed out of any court - that Muslim attacks on and killing of non-Muslims around the world (as well as the "wrong kind" of Muslim), in the hundreds of thousands (200 000 and counting in Darfur alone) is somehow acceptable but the true crime is pointing out this disgusting behavior and its Islamic inspiration as Spencer does. In other words, the killing doesn't need to end, but criticism of the killing must end. The killing should be sufficient to incite justifiable hatred against Muslims who support it but instead we're supposed to worry that someone's criticism of the killing inspires hatred.

In actual fact, response to the killing has been far too muted, thanks to the leftist MSM that ignores the rampaging elephant in the room for itsw own nefarious purposes. This has encouraged CAIR to push their luck and cross the line into shamelessness, threatening to sue those like Spencer who merely point out the facts about their religion and its homicidal/genocidal aggression. They can't refute what he says so they try to gag the messenger.

One half of every conflict in the world today is Muslim. They are a force for conquering and destruction globally, just as the prophet they revere was. He made his religion/cult in his image. Truth should still be a defence in a just court of law.

re: #72 Angel

re: #61 bikermailman

of course he's outspoken..He's a New Yawka like me..heh..and from Brooklyn too!

Fuggetaboutit!

There's always something tough sounding about that accent. Part of the reason I'm (kinda) behind Rudy!

What would happen if CAIR's backers quit?
Would all these 1,700 drift in the wind?
It would be interesting to see where each of them washed up and with whom.

re: #79 rappmandu

re: #63 reine.de.tout

Incrementalism cuts both ways.

My brain must be in low gear today - not sure what you mean. I'm more concerned about it when it reduces my freedom or makes the rules I live under more restrictive than when it opens things up.

CAIR can to to hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.

Not exactly the response Dougie was hoping for.

re: #84 Thanos

re: #76 Ginn

re: #42 song_and_dance_man

How long before a FOX Fatwa?

Ibn Rushd, in his Muqaddimaat, divides Jihad into four kinds: "Jihad by the heart; Jihad by the tongue; Jihad by the hand and Jihad by the sword." He defines "Jihad by the tongue" as "to commend good conduct and forbid the wrong, like the type of Jihad Allah (swt) ordered us to fulfill against the hypocrites in His Words, “O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites” [9:73].

[Link: www.sunnah.org...]
Jihad of the Tongue?

I probably shouldn't go here "Jihadlingus"

Gene Simmons can be their General.

re: #89 m

There are a handful of Dhimmicrats who do get it on some issues. Leiberman, obvious. Chuckie, he gets it on islam here in America. Feinstein, she gets it on the border.

re: #94 6pat6

Jeez, my post #92 has some of the worst grammar I've ever used! Sorry!

You'd better get a grammar coach before you jump in as President.

He should of told them" Go f**k yourself!"

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel

SKorea focuses anger over hostages on US
Ingrates. Let ‘em eat grass in Kim’s paradise.

I'll bet we could fund our fight in Iraq with the money we waste protecting those S. Korean ingrates. Seriously, some politician should recommend that as a source of funding for continuing our fight in Iraq -- a pullout of Korea over the next four years.

I want the Jason Mattera anti-dhimmi trading card!

I'll trade any card but the Ayann Hirsi Ali.

re: #115 Beagle

I ain't giving up my Franklin Graham rookie card who went straight to the bigs by saying "Islam is an evil and false religion."

No Triple-A for Franklin. Won him rookie of the year as I recall.

Just got word from Mark Levin's show that The CAIR lawyer threatening Robert Spencer works as Counsel for the DNC!

#117 Egfrow

Says so at his firm's website. CAIR isn't limited to the DNC, but they own whatever Soros, NEA, unions, and the trial lawyers don't. It would be nice if the Republicans weren't similarly treasonous when it comes to petrodollars and CAIR.

#116 goodbye_natalie

Thankfully anti-dhimmis are moving up from the farm system all the time. People are starting to "get it."

There's a similar battle between the retrograde forces of Islam and those who would expose them happening in the U.K.:
Hot Air audio: How one wealthy jihad supporter is using UK courts to kill American free speech

It’s difficult to overstate the importance of this story. The Chronicle of Higher Education (sub. required) on Wednesday published an article about Khalid bin Mafouz, a wealthy Saudi banker, and his successful effort to persuade the Cambridge University Press to halt the publication of four books that detail how Saudi citizens use their wealth to finance global terrorism. One of those books, Alms for Jihad, was once on sale at Amazon and elsewhere, but it has been pulled from sale and copies of it are now being pulped. Cambridge has even sent out letters to libraries that stock it and the other three books, asking for their return so that they too can be pulped, meaning they will soon disappear, burying the details they contain on how terrorism finance works and who is behind it.

Dr. Rachel Ehrenfeld of the American Center for Democracy is one of the authors whose books have been subject to judicial attack by Khalid bin Mafouz. I interviewed her about the case of the censorious jihad financier, and Cambridge Press’ cowardly capitulation to him. She is the author of Funding Evil: How Terrorism is Financed and How to Stop It. She is the only author to date who is fighting back.

We will not be intimidated by radical Islamic thugs... CAIR can go to Hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.

They forgot to mention that Mohammed is already there and waiting for them.

Great job, Young America's Foundation! And kudos to Britt Hume for not deleting their comment!

re: #120 ibrodsky

We will not be intimidated by radical Islamic thugs... CAIR can go to Hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.

They forgot to mention that Mohammed is already there and waiting for them.

And no, there aren't really any virgins there with him either.

#117 Egfrow

Just got word from Mark Levin's show that The CAIR lawyer threatening Robert Spencer works as Counsel for the DNC!

If this is indeed true, it MUST be made front and center from now until the '08 election - that the dhimmicrats are behind silencing free speech. Of course we knew that about them anyway, but this is priceless leverage against them.

Contrary to the letter's claim that the group “has consistently taken a principled position against terrorism and extremism,” CAIR simply has not done so. Never has CAIR condemned by name Islamic terrorist organizations Hamas and Hezbollah. Given the opportunity to condemn Hamas by Newsweek last December, CAIR executive director and co-founder Nihad Awad refused, claiming that the question was “the game of the pro-Israel lobby.”

While CAIR incessantly hypes its 2005 fatwa against terrorism and extremism, the document intentionally avoided defining the two terms. Fundamentalist Muslims who wish harm upon the U.S. and Israel do not consider themselves “extreme.” Nor do Hezbollah and Hamas believe that they are terrorists.

This is CAIR's modus operandi: appearing to oppose terrorism, while simultaneously leading the charge against those who actually seek to thwart it.

-- Joel Mowbray

By not defining "extremism" nor "terrorism", either in words or by citing examples of extremism or terrorism, or by citing terrorist organizations (such as Hamas or Hizballah), they are just playing a word game with their fatwa that is devoid of any meaning.

Jason Mattera - genius . . . boy wonder . . . or just somebody finally willing to give two to the air to a bunch of terror-supporting freaks? Good on ya, Mr. Mattera. Keep up the good work. Oh, and the same goes for Mr. Spencer.

the sinner,

Charles

this is the best line against CAIR and Islamic writings ever...It makes me happy to be a lizard at times like this (slowly wiping a tear of joy from my eye.) Im sorry guys, I told myself I wouldnt cry...

ROP? I don't think so.
"Men defend most violently, not the things they know to be true, but the things they fear may be false."
-- C.K. Chesterton

There is nothing more delicious than the aroma of a fresh serving of

H U M I L I A T I O N served publicly to CAIR.

Ahhh.

Mr. Spencer and Jason Mattera - BRAVO!

Oh, and by the way, Ibrahim Hooper and CAIR should take Mr. Hitchens advice and get used to it.

"We should kill or convert them ALL NOW ... OR just threaten retailatory lawsuits when they try to expose our intentions of doing such."

... sounds vaguely familar.

Props to Mr. Spencer, Jason and YAF!

I just received this newsletter from the Middle East Forum:

The Legal Project to Defend Robert Spencer from CAIR
News from the Legal Project, Middle East Forum

Press Release
August 2, 2007
www.meforum.org/press/1716

PHILADELPHIA - The Legal Project of the Middle East Forum announces its support of Robert Spencer and the Young America's Foundation (YAF), the latest victims of what appears to be a targeted intimidation and defamation campaign by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) designed to silence critics of its organization.

Spencer, a well-respected author and the director of [Link: www.jihadwatch.org,...] spoke today for YAF on "The Truth about CAIR" on the campus of George Washington University. As a consequence of this invitation, YAF's president Ron Robinson received a threatening and possibly defamatory letter written by CAIR's acting attorney, Joseph E. Sandler, of the law firm Sandler, Reiff & Young, P.C.

Sandler's letter (available in pdf format here) accuses Mr. Spencer, without offering any factual support, of being a "well-known purveyor of hatred and bigotry against Muslims," with "a history of false and defamatory statements." Sandler goes on to "demand that YAF cancel the subject session or else take steps to ensure that false and defamatory statements are not disseminated," and states an intention to pursue a "legal remedy" against YAF, should CAIR deem statements made by Spencer at the session "false and defamatory."

CAIR's letter appears to be aimed at maliciously harming Spencer's reputation, interfering in his lawful employment, and aimed to discourage both Spencer and YAF from exercising their fundamental rights to free speech and assembly. Furthermore, the letter wrongfully implies that YAF has an independent duty to censor Spencer, and that it may be subject to suit for allowing Spencer to speak on private property. It is our opinion that CAIR's pre-emptive accusations are without merit, without any legal basis, and that CAIR has yet to prove any of its statements as true.

Therefore, the Legal Project hereby gives CAIR and its attorneys notice that it, too, will pursue "every available and appropriate legal remedy to redress any false or defamatory statements that are made" or have been made by CAIR and its attorneys against Spencer. We advise CAIR's staff to govern themselves accordingly.

The Legal Project, established by the Middle East Forum in June 2007, is dedicated to safeguarding the democratic liberties afforded by the Constitution to U.S. citizens, namely the rights to free speech and free assembly. The Legal Project protects researchers and analysts working on the topics of terrorism, terrorist funding, Islam, and Islamism against those who seek to silence them through intimidation, defamation, and predatory lawsuits.

Immediate release

For more information: John Matthies, (215) 546-5406, ext. 16, or Matthies@MEForum.org

Robert "freakin' Batman" Spencer

Kudos to the YAF. When I first read their response to the fax sent by CAIR's attack dogs, I stood up and startled the house with a rebel yell.

I hope we can get a full transcript of Robert Spencer's remarks. As CAIR has stepped up its attack on truth tellers, Spencer has answered blow for blow and bested them at every turn. God bless him.

re: #130 Clairevoyant1

Great that there is a legal counter.

The efforts by CAIR to smear the distinguished writer and scholar Robert Spencer, because CAIR doesn't want the truth being told about some topics, will meet with some resistance. And the efforts at intimidation by CAIR againsgt kafirs who want the right to tell the truth, will meet with some resistance. And the frivolous lawsuits waged by CAIR to back up their intimidation efforts will meet with some resistance.

Kudos to the Legal Project of Middle East Forum.

Finally there is some action to stop the fear that CAIR is causing to prevent honest and true discussion by CAIR's smearing people and also threatening lawsuits.

Note to self: send CAIR poobah Ibrahim Cooper an email reminding him that Mohammed's momma rode shotgun on the garbage wagon and wore kosher panties

note to self - delay plans for new radio toy, increase 223 and 45 components inventory, increase newbie trips to the range - note to lizards: find more newbies and take em to the range -- I am amazed how many guys tween 20 and 45 have never handled or fired a *real* gun -- they all seem to really enjoy my 45XD (range ammo is down-loaded 200 gr (hydraShock fer pd, of course) and the AR15 (custom loads here also) with the new red dot...some of my newbies have purchased hardware and some have even joined our range club...

You can take your We will not be intimidated by radical Islamic thugs... CAIR can to to hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.

Hell yes! As a leftie hawk I can only be insanely jealous! Except for disagreeing with most of their domestic agenda, I'm tempted to go out and register Republican.

re: #135 Armigerous

Man that is too good! Nice one!

CAIR stinks!

CAIR can drive off a cliff.

The YAF kicked CAIR's a**.

Robert Spencer is not the only respected writer who has been libeled by CAIR. The distinguished scholar Daniel Pipes has long been the object of a campaign of lies and vilification by CAIR. Here Dr. Pipes gives an analysis of CAIR and a defense against CAIR's attacks against him:
[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

re #140

Reply to CAIR's Attack on Daniel Pipes

If you have landed on [Link: www.cair-net.org...] you have seen an attack on me posted by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). Here is my response to that attack. It has two parts, one an analysis of CAIR and the other a defense against its attacks on me.
What is the Council on American-Islamic Relations?

CAIR is particularly worrisome because it claims to be nothing but a mild public affairs organization promoting "interest and understanding among the general public with regards to Islam and Muslims in North America," and is widely seen as such. In fact, it is radical to the core; to quote its chairman, Omar M. Ahmad (as reported by the San Ramon Valley Herald in July 1998), "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."

CAIR's record includes the following unpleasantries:

* Apologizing for killers such as Hamas (a group associated with the murder of 7 Americans) and Usama bin Ladin (charged with the devastation of September 11, 2001).
* Helping promote terrorism: In the words of Steve Pomerantz., a former Chief of Counterterrorism for the FBI, "CAIR, its leaders, and its activities, effectively give aid to international terrorist groups."
* Intimidation of patriotic Muslims who disagree with CAIR's militant agenda: In one case (Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani), the FBI has looked into charges that he received death threats after renouncing the chauvinists. In another (Khalid Durán), CAIR's attack on a writer led to a death edict against him - which CAIR has never denounced. (For details on this latter case, see [Link: www.danielpipes.org...]
* Associating with terrorism: Siraj Wahaj, a potential unindicted co-conspirator in the World Trade Center bombing of 1993, sits on its advisory board.
* Bias against women: When a prosecutor in Cleveland argued that two Muslim men had engaged in the "honor killing" of their female cousin, CAIR accused him of "ethnic and religious stereotyping" and demanded he be investigated.
* Sponsorship of blatant antisemitism: At a May 1998 rally at Brooklyn College co-sponsored by CAIR, one speaker referred to Jews as "descendants of the apes."

In short, CAIR represents not the great civilization of Islam but a radical utopian movement originating in the Middle East that seeks to impose its ways on the United States. Americans should consider themselves warned: a new danger exists in their midst.

CAIR also has a history of vituperation and aggressiveness against anyone who opposes its Islamist vision for the United States. In my case, it has sent out nearly a hundred tirades impugning my reputation since July 1999. These have landed everywhere from the op-ed page of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune to the hands of street picketers in Washington, D.C. and Cornell University.

In the rest of the article Pipes goes ahead and demolishes the lies that CAIR has propagated against himself.

Robert Spencer is hardly alone in being the object of smear and vilification by this organization with an Islamist vision for the US, that smears anybody who opposes that Islamist vision.

The real CAIR, by Joseph Farah
[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]

re #142

CAIR is not what it seems – not what it pretends to be.

It is not a group fighting for equal rights for Muslim-Americans. It is not a group trying to protect the interests of Muslims in America. It is not a group promoting human rights for anyone.

It is a group whose real mission is changing the very character of America – remaking it in the image of the Islamo-fascists who fund them from Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

You will never hear a nice word about America from the Council on American-Islamic Relations. It's a hate group. It spends all or most of its time and resources denigrating America, condemning it as a pariah state that exploits and oppresses Muslims.

According to CAIR, America is a terrible place for Muslims. At the same time, CAIR boasts Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America. It makes you wonder: If conditions for Muslims are so bad in America, why is Islam so popular? Why are Muslims flocking from all parts of the world to the United States – this hideous concentration camp for Muslims?

I'll tell you why. Many Muslims have come here and continue to come here to escape the Islamo-fascism of places like Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia – places about which CAIR never has a bad word to say.

CAIR was late to the party in condemning Osama bin Laden for the Sept. 11 terror attacks. It finally got around to it three months after the fact. Don't expect to hear any CAIR officials condemn suicide bombings by the terrorists in Hamas. The founder of this organization is on record in support of the goals and tactics of Hamas.

CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper indicated in a 1993 interview with the Minneapolis Star Tribune that he wants the United States to become a Muslim country.

"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future," Hooper told the Star Tribune. "But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

Founded in 1994, CAIR is a spin-off of the Islamic Association of Palestine, identified as a "front group" for the terrorist group Hamas, according to Steve Pomerantz, former chief of the FBI's counterterrorism section.

Another ex-FBI counterterrorism chief, Oliver "Buck" Revell, has called the Islamic Association For Palestine – Hooper's former employer – "a front organization for Hamas that engages in propaganda for Islamic militants."

re #142

CAIR advisory board member Siraj Wahhaj was named by U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White on Feb. 2, 1995, as one of the "unindicted persons who may be alleged as co-conspirators in the attempt to blow up New York City monuments," including the World Trade Center in 1993.

How seriously can we take the charges of a group that called the conviction of the 1993 World Trade Center bombers "a travesty of justice"? How seriously can we take a group that called the conviction of Omar Abdel Rahman, who conspired to blow up New York City landmarks, a "hate crime"? How seriously should we take a group about which Steven Pomerantz, former FBI chief of counter-terrorism, says: "CAIR, its leaders and its activities effectively give aid to international terrorist groups"?

Very seriously.

But just don't assume the group has any credibility.

The real goal of this group was made clear by its chairman, Omar M. Ahmad, who told a rally of California Muslims in 1998: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."

This is the real CAIR. Amazingly, some American people and institutions have fallen for CAIR's ad hominem attacks on Daniel Pipes, a scholar among scholars. No less an establishment enterprise than the Washington Post editorialized last week against Daniel Pipes' nomination. Despite its extremist history, CAIR is making inroads in the media.

re #142, at that time CAIR was on a witchhunt against Daniel Pipes, opposing his nomination to the board of the US Institute for Peace, by making up smears against him. Joseph Farah set the record straight about CAIR.

CAIR's efforts to get a Muslim scholar, Khalid Duran, declared to be an apostate and thereby to have his life threatened:
A foreign threat to a scholar in America, by Nat Hentoff
[Link: www.jewishworldreview.com...]

re #146

Nat Hentoff

A foreign threat to a scholar in America

[Link: www.jewishworldreview.com...] -- MANY Americans remember the fatwa -- an Islamic religious decree calling for the death of an apostate -- issued against writer Salman Rushdie in 1989 by Iran's Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Rushdie went into hiding. I was present at a Columbia University event during that period, when Rushdie suddenly appeared. We all froze in anticipation of misguided bullets. Rushdie is still alive.

Now, Muslim scholar Khalid Duran -- who taught at Temple University and American University -- has left his home in suburban Washington for a safe house with 24-hour private security. An edict against Duran -- not a full-blown fatwa -- has been issued by Shaykh Abdul Al-Menem Abu Zant, an Islamic cleric in Jordan and a leader in the Islamic Action Front, the political arm of the Muslim Brotherhood. This party celebrated the June 1 Tel Aviv suicide bombing that killed 20 Israelis, and the Palestinian bomber, as "a heroic martyrdom operation."

The edict is a prelude to a command to murder Duran -- because of a book he wrote intended to advance Muslim-Jewish understanding, newly published here by the American Jewish Committee. The edict called for all Muslims in the United States "to unify against Duran" because he has vilified Islam in his book.

The book, "Children of Abraham: An Introduction to Islam for Jews" (Kraw Publishing House, 2001), has a companion volume, "An Introduction to Judaism for Muslims" (Kraw Publishing House, 2001) by Rabbi Reuven Firestone. Fourteen Islamic scholars approved Duran's manuscript before publication, and Martin Marty, a University of Chicago historian of religions, told the Associated Press that Duran had clearly distinguished in his book between Islam as a religion that opposes murderous hatred and radicals who, as Duran points out, have a "perverted concept of Islam that is widely reported in the media, causing widespread hostility toward and fear of Islam."

However, the Washington-based Council of American Islamic Relations attacked Duran's book bitterly before publication. The Council demanded publication be stopped because, they claim, it besmears the image of Islam in the United States in its criticism of the inferior status of women, among other practices of the religion. The Council's fierce condemnation of the book has been published in Arabic newspapers in Jordan and Egypt.

I spoke with Ibrahim Hooper, communications director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, to clarify the edict against Professor Duran that had been initially published in the Jordanian Arabic weekly, Al-Shahed (The Observer), which is connected to the Islamic Action Front.

Hooper says -- and I repeated this to him to make sure I had it right -- that Shaykh Abu Zant has called on Islamic religious authorities to engage in an investigation that led to their judgment on Duran's apostasy from Islam. "As a result of that investigation," Hooper told me, "his blood could be shed."

If I were Duran, I would not take that explanation of the edict as a reason to emerge from hiding. The operative phrase is "his blood could be shed."

re #146

David A. Harris, executive director of the American Jewish Committee, which has no intention of stopping publication of "The Children of Abraham," makes the utterly necessary point that "In a free society, no one should tolerate the threat to kill an author." Or to ignore an assassination threat when religious leaders in another country decide that a death sentence must be pronounced, and that it is the duty of Muslims to carry it out -- as Ayatollah Khomeini commanded in the judgment of Salman Rushdie.

Moreover, as Harris adds, "All Americans -- not least Muslims -- should immediately speak out against this outrage and assault on democratic society."

The threat that a fatwa could be issued is an assault on freedom of speech and freedom of conscience. It is also an assault -- by false stereotyping -- on those millions of Muslims in the United States and elsewhere whose Islamic faith does not in the least condone such a violent distortion of their religion.

As a reporter, I have interviewed Muslims who agree with Khalid Duran that this kind of edict, in the name of Islam, results, as he told the Washington Post, "in giving us a bad name because they misuse Islam and claim to be Muslims."

Muslims in America, and everywhere else, should -- whether or not they agree with Duran's writings -- speak out for his right not to be assassinated.

How CAIR PUt My Life in Peril, by Khalid Duran
[Link: www.meforum.org...]

re #149

How CAIR Put My Life in Peril

by Khalid Durán
Middle East Quarterly
Winter 2002

On April 4, 2001, a self-described advocacy group based in Washington, D.C. by the name of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), issued a press release1 attacking my forthcoming book, Children of Abraham: An Introduction to Islam for Jews.2 CAIR's attack snowballed into a campaign of personal vilification, which eventuated in a Jordanian political leader calling me an apostate (murtadd).3 Neither CAIR nor Sheikh ‘Abd al-Mun‘im Abu Zant of Jordan's Islamic Action Front had ever read or even seen my book, but the CAIR attack prompted the latter to issue an appeal to Muslims, asking them to unite to kill me. According to most interpretations of the Shari‘a (Islamic law), an apostate from Islam must be executed.

At the time, it was not clear whether Abu Zant's outburst constituted a formal fatwa–a religious edict. But the sheikh was unequivocal in calling for my "blood to be shed." For its part, CAIR denied that Abu Zant called for my death and claimed that my American publisher concocted the death threat in order to increase sales,4 even though the threat first had been reported in a Jordanian newspaper, Ash-Shahid. Abu Zant lay low for a time, but on July 22, he again called me an apostate, and declared it lawful (halal) to shed my blood. This time Ash-Shahid expressly called his statement a fatwa and bragged about the worldwide media coverage given to Abu Zant and Ash-Shahid.5

The inflammatory language used by Nihad Awad, CAIR's executive director, to vilify my book, was bound to incite reactions like that of Abu Zant. Put differently, the accusations and the language used by CAIR in its statements, especially those in Arabic, could not but result in calls for violence against me. And so I find myself, the author of a book written to promote a wider understanding of Islam, under a death threat and in need of protection. CAIR has put my life in peril. Its actions are the culmination of a campaign meant to intimidate and silence not only me, but any Muslim in America who would speak out in favor of freedom, tolerance, and dialogue.

What is CAIR? And why me?

An Islamist Front

CAIR is the principle front organization of a coalition of Islamist (or fundamentalist Muslim) groups that have taken root in America over the past two decades. Most are spin-offs of the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP), such as the American Muslims for Jerusalem, the Holy Land Foundation, and the Islamic Institute. These are extreme groups, and some have even come under federal investigation for alleged support of Middle Eastern terrorism. But CAIR's mission has differed from the others: its special assignment is the insinuation of the Islamist agenda into mainstream American politics. Like the many front organizations established by the Soviet Union in its heyday, CAIR works to give a "white bread" image to advocates of illiberal and even radical ideas.

re #149

CAIR is run by a duo. The executive director, Nihad Awad, is a Palestinian; his associate, Ibrahim ("Dougie") Hooper, is an American convert. Awad actively propagates the cause in Arabic, while Hooper handles most of the English-language work. To create the perception that CAIR speaks for Islam in America, the two indefatigably issue position statements on anything remotely touching on Muslim or Arab affairs, reacting on everything from U.S. foreign policy to letters in college newspapers.

In fact, no one organization speaks for Islam in America, and no Islamist group ever will. Scarcely 10 percent of American Muslims can be classified as Islamists—the extremist fringe of contemporary Islam. An additional 5 percent are sympathizers, and another 5 percent agree with Islamists on certain issues. Assuming a Muslim population of up to five million,6 CAIR's total potential constituency cannot exceed one million, and its actual supporters are probably only small a fraction of that number. The overwhelming majority of American Muslims have no Islamist sympathies, and most have never even heard of CAIR.

Indeed, a very large proportion of Muslims in the United States are refugees from Islamist regimes, of the kind for which CAIR serves as an apologist. This applies to the majority of the perhaps million Iranians in the United States, as well as the majority of Sudanese in the country. Many Pakistanis came to the United States as refugees from the Islamist dictatorship of General Zia. Recently they have been joined by Afghans fleeing the tyranny of the Taliban. The agenda put forward by CAIR is anathema to this large majority.

Unfortunately, it has not always been easy for non-Muslim Americans to determine who speaks for whom in the Muslim community. CAIR and its fellow extremist organizations have had surprising success in being accepted at the highest levels of the U.S. government. The picture of Awad and Hooper in the company of then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright at a festive Ramadan dinner in the State Department's elegant diplomatic rooms (at which, to top things off, she urged them to find recruits to apply for government jobs)7 gave rise to consternation among many American Muslims. It also aroused suspicions, with some suggesting that CAIR is valued at Foggy Bottom as a back channel to Islamists in the Middle East and others concluding that the State Department is simply ignorant. In either case, there is legitimate cause for alarm.

Fortunately, some major American institutions are waking up to the real nature of CAIR. Partly as a result of the fallout from my book, the American Jewish Committee has refused to participate in any activities of which CAIR is part, followed by the American Jewish Congress and the Anti-Defamation League. These organizations are both appalled by CAIR's extremism and aware of its small constituency. There are other signs that CAIR's extremism is becoming an issue. For example, Salon.com8 and The Hill,9 two publications hitherto completely uninterested in CAIR, published powerful and widely-noted expos%u05D9s. Other media (such as The Boston Globe10 and The Weekly Standard11) noted the organization's extremism.

CAIR has attempted to build a wider following by "defending" Islam and Muslims against perceived acts of misrepresentation, defamation, and discrimination. American Muslims are rightly sensitive to manifestations of prejudice, and have every right to protest them. But CAIR goes further: it denounces offenses against Islam where there are none, and it demonizes moderate Muslims who criticize Islamist distortions.

re #149, jumping to the conclusion by Khalid Duran, whose life was put in danger by CAIR:

The Alternative to Extremism

Perhaps I am at a disadvantage: I would never do to Abu Zant what he has done to me. As I understand our common religion, it does not permit us to denounce someone as an apostate as long as that person says he is a Muslim.

The Congress of Muslim Americans (CMA), in which I am active, is one of several initiatives seeking to organize non-Islamist Muslims. Its purpose is to give the silent majority a voice. We protest against attempts by political bodies such as the American Muslim Council (AMC), CAIR, the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) and a whole network of extremists to usurp Muslim leadership in the United States. None of these inter-related groups has a mandate from the community. The fair-minded, moderate and tolerant majority of Muslims face enormous difficulties in competing with these Islamists—not because the Islamists are more numerous, but because they float on subsidies provided by Islamist millionaires and billionaires. In the United States, the difference between Islamists and common Muslims is largely one between haves and have-nots. Muslims have the numbers; Islamists have the dollars.

In the Congress of Muslim Americans we believe that leadership of the community has to grow organically, which is to say gradually and democratically. We do not claim a mandate to speak on behalf of millions, though our efforts are directed towards the emergence of such a leadership. We respect leaders such as Imam W. Deen Mohammed of the Muslim American Society and Sheikh Hisham Kabbani of the Islamic Supreme Council, as well as a number of individual preachers and teachers. They truly represent large segments of the Muslim community in North America. By contrast, CAIR is one of several groups of parasitic imposters who have built upon the insecurities of a Muslim community only now coming into its own. That community can only take its rightful place if it builds upon hope and dialogue, not the fear and defamation retailed by CAIR.

Ok, that has got to be the best clip of Brit. His voice is always seems so calming, but when he quote the Young Americans that just nearly made me lose my tea! Don't know why, but to hear Brit say "h*ll" was just too funny.

But I was glad to hear that Spencer did get to go on as scheduled. That is right SUCK IT CAIR!