I was thinking...I nice AJAX feature would be to "Read the rest of the story" without reloading the page.

"hello", anybody here?

Hmm...am I the only one on? two minutes without another comment

Now if we could get the rest of the Muslim community to act the same way...

where is Hsu.

2-3

As good as writing "first."

re: #5 rain of lead

where is Hsu.

Hsu flew.

Munafik.

Plain and simple, the guy isn't a true muslim. His attitude will never be accepted by mainstream Islam, simply because it isn't Islam.

I despair for this world. That we create such screwed up and hateful belief systems. That we are so easily brainwashed, even the supposed intelligent, even the supposed compassionate.
Never lose the ability to question your beliefs.

Hsu's Lawyer
" passport? passport,?! "Damn, I know it was here 90 minutes ago"

re: #8 MattMacD

Never lose the ability to question your beliefs.

Especially when those beliefs include killing people in mass quantities, and that doing so will get you into "paradise".

re: #9 rain of lead

Hsu's Lawyer
" passport? passport,?! "Damn, I know it was here 90 minutes ago"

"I left it in my other Hartmann briefcase."

Give that man a box of raisins on me.

Hsu flew far away
And Hillary knew nothing
Deja vu again

/ bad Haiku

Informer
You know say daddy me snow me-a (gonna) blame
A licky boom-boom down
'Tective man he say, say Daddy Me Snow me stab someone down the lane
A licky boom-boom down...

/just old enough to remember when that song was a #1 hit

Ah yes! Canadian jihadists....

It's Wednesday

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

On the one hand, I want to praise this guy for recognizing the necessity of keeping the society he grew up in safe and secure. And for refusing to go into witness protection, and thereby standing by his actions within his own religious community.

On the other hand, given the situation today, his commitment to sharia means that even though he did the right thing here, he still bears watching.

I think he wants the same end result as the bombers, just by different means (increased immigration and having lots of children).

re: #10 Ward Cleaver

re: #8 MattMacD

Never lose the ability to question your beliefs.

Especially when those beliefs include killing people in mass quantities, and that doing so will get you into "paradise".

No, even when those beliefs don't include killing people in mass quantities. When you lose the ability to question your beliefs, no matter what they are (seriously, even the ones that are quite obviously good), you open the door for the loss of reason, the loss of objectivity. Emotion can take control and take you to places you wouldn't have thought you could go.
There are muslims that *are* compassion, and intelligent. Many of them leave Islam eventually when they realise what it really is. But many don't, and they are enablers for the true muslims, who are enemies of western democracy, of the freedoms that we all have.

Don't get me wrong though. I believe in defending what is good and right with passion and strength. Just not without questioning what you believe. In fact, if you question your views, you are in a better position to know for certain that you are doing things for the right reasons.

re: #14 EC Marm

Hsu flew far away
And Hillary knew nothing
Deja vu again

/ bad Haiku

Good haiku! Getting the 5-7-5 thing down is the most important part.

A good man. Would that all his co-religionists were as good...

re: #18 MattMacD

Yes, faith and reason should go hand in hand.

re: #19 Ward Cleaver

Good haiku! Getting the 5-7-5 thing down is the most important part.

Maybe, but buzzsawmonkey is in this thread. Give him two minutes and he'd show you a great one. buzz?

re: #21 Ward Cleaver

re: #18 MattMacD

Yes, faith and reason should go hand in hand.

I would word it as compassion and reason should go hand in hand, as I'm not religious, but I agree, basically. :)

My view is - not compassion without reason, not reason without compassion.

I believe the prosecution is going to have one heck of a hard time. Mubin is just not credible. Suuure, he took 300,000 dollars (other reports allege it was more in the order of 500,000) from CSIS -- and he didn't lead anyone on, didn't set them up, etc. Suure...just took Mubin close to 2 years of propagandistic jihadist brainwashing to get 'em to commit -- (some of them were Hindu kids who Mubin "converted" to radical Islam -- I really suspect it's all about Mubin showing off as the "big, tough dude" -- and Mubin loves the media -- lawyers have told him to not discuss anything with the media -- so what does Mubin do? He runs around granting media interviews. (There was another informant in the case, btw, who is now in hiding.)

O.T. (so sorry),

Look who has turned on possibly America's "biggest" dirtbag, the DisHonorable Senator Ted Kennedy:

NIMBY

Perhaps Teddy meets that ignominious ending before joining up again with his daddy. Oh, and we can't excuse the hypocritical Repubs either:

In 2004, Sen. John Warner, the Virginia Republican, added a last-minute rider to an urgent Iraq War funding bill that forbade the Army Corps of Engineers to spend money permitting offshore wind projects.

"Warner was dragging American troops into the Cape Wind war," Williams and Whitcomb noted. The outcry forced him to back down.

Why did Warner care so deeply about a wind-energy project in Massachusetts? Some of his fabulously wealthy relatives own choice waterfront property on Cape Cod. That's why.

Republican Sen. Lamar Alexander also took an unusual interest in a venture far from his home state of Tennessee. Complaining that wind farms threaten "the wholesale destruction of the American landscape," Alexander introduced legislation that would have banned virtually all offshore wind projects in America. It turns out that Alexander owns a fancy piece of real estate on Nantucket Island.

Scumbags one and all...

A few of the people in the video suggested there was a problem with the money he was given, but I don't think so. That money could be used to compensate for all of the time, work, stress, and risk, he spent (and will spend, in court) on the whole thing, and allow him to buy things for self-protection.

re: #27 goodbye_natalie

O.T. (so sorry),

Look who has turned on possibly America's "biggest" dirtbag, the DisHonorable Senator Ted Kennedy:

I'm not one for desecrating graves, but when he kicks it, I'd like to pee on his tomb, just as a small measure of satisfaction for all the grief he's caused.

Barring that, I'd like to write "Drunkard - Killer - Traitor" on his headstone. The simple epitaphs are the best.

I am certainly glad that he did what he did to stop this plot.

His views are far too similar to those he turned in for my comfort.

He wants sharia, that alone should be a reason to deport.

re: #27 goodbye_natalie

As tfk would say, the evil money cult.

re: #29 buzzsawmonkey

With Hsu gone, how will
Hillary select China
Patterns for the White House?

There, fixed.

re: #29 buzzsawmonkey Nail on the head.

I like the Toronto informer in this article better than this one.

Has done more for humanity he has.

re: #30 Pawn of the Oppressor

Barring that, I'd like to write "Drunkard - Killer - Traitor" on his headstone. The simple epitaphs are the best.

Not bad! I was thinking of something more scriptural like: "There is wailing and gnashing of teeth..."

i bet cair is thrilled w/ him

re: #30 Pawn of the Oppressor

re: #27 goodbye_natalie

O.T. (so sorry),Look who has turned on possibly America's "biggest" dirtbag, the DisHonorable Senator Ted Kennedy:

I'm not one for desecrating graves, but when he kicks it, I'd like to pee on his tomb, just as a small measure of satisfaction for all the grief he's caused.

Barring that, I'd like to write "Drunkard - Killer - Traitor" on his headstone. The simple epitaphs are the best.

May they drown bury him next to his first score victim love Mary Jo. Better to have loved and drowned lost than never to have drowned loved at all.

So this guy is paid 300,000, to train the jihadists, that he then turns in ,to the police? Am I missing something......? an informate that trains the criminals , he is informing on?.....iSLam involved, of course.

re: #17 Ward Cleaver

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

On the one hand, I want to praise this guy for recognizing the necessity of keeping the society he grew up in safe and secure. And for refusing to go into witness protection, and thereby standing by his actions within his own religious community.

On the other hand, given the situation today, his commitment to sharia means that even though he did the right thing here, he still bears watching.

I think he wants the same end result as the bombers, just by different means (increased immigration and having lots of children).

Exactly. He has his wife in a burka, for crying out loud. He would be jumping for joy if he could introduce sharia by peaceful means tomorrow.

"The only good Muslim is an ex-Muslim or a dead Muslim." Give it another ten years and this will be the general opinion in the Western world. A pity, but unavoidable given the nature of the death cult.

12Z GFDL says Category 3 on Central North Carolina coast late Saturday

Note it keeps hurricane force winds on the coast to Delaware and Maryland!

Navy NOGAPS model likes Charleston, SC

Look at the monster the WRF model is bringing towards Hatteras

Lizards from Charleston to Atlantic City- once NHC upgrades this to a Tropical Storm or Sub-Tropical Storm or Sub-Tropical Depression tonight, and issues forecasts, the mad rush to A&P and Home Depot will begin.

***Leave work now, and beat the mad scramble

Leave work early & prepare now!

Jeez, that area they were training in is not far from where I live. I have all the firearm licenses that you can get in Canada but I have never heard of any kind of carry permit that this guy claimed to have.

re: #31 David IV of Georgia

I am certainly glad that he did what he did to stop this plot.

His views are far too similar to those he turned in for my comfort.

He wants sharia, that alone should be a reason to deport.

You have to wonder... what are all those devout Muslims who want Sharia doing in North America/Europe... if he wants sharia that bad he can use the $300,000 to buy himself and his family a ticket to any country El-Al doesn't fly to.

He did the right thing, but he go that one step further and leave islam. I live in southern Ontario, and there's a definite rise in Mo-lovers. The bubble is going to burst soon.

re: #25 J.S.

I believe the prosecution is going to have one heck of a hard time. Mubin is just not credible. Suuure, he took 300,000 dollars (other reports allege it was more in the order of 500,000) from CSIS -- and he didn't lead anyone on, didn't set them up, etc. Suure...just took Mubin close to 2 years of propagandistic jihadist brainwashing to get 'em to commit -- (some of them were Hindu kids who Mubin "converted" to radical Islam -- I really suspect it's all about Mubin showing off as the "big, tough dude" -- and Mubin loves the media -- lawyers have told him to not discuss anything with the media -- so what does Mubin do? He runs around granting media interviews. (There was another informant in the case, btw, who is now in hiding.)

I don't know about some of the details you mention, but I do think that he is endangering the prosecution's case with all the blabbing to the media. That is simply NOT DONE in Canada, and it is not going to sit well with a jury (or a judge).

re: #40 missouri boy

So this guy is paid 300,000, to train the jihadists, that he then turns in ,to the police? Am I missing something......? an informate that trains the criminals , he is informing on?.....iSLam involved, of course.

A win-win situation?

re: #22 EC Marm

re: #19 Ward Cleaver

Good haiku! Getting the 5-7-5 thing down is the most important part.

Maybe, but buzzsawmonkey is in this thread. Give him two minutes and he'd show you a great one. buzz?

Who knew when Hsu flew?
Will Hsu do as told to do?
Will Hill see Hsu through?

OldLineTexan

re: #44 xrayon

You have to wonder... what are all those devout Muslims who want Sharia doing in North America/Europe... if he wants sharia that bad he can use the $300,000 to buy himself and his family a ticket to any country El-Al doesn't fly to.

That's a great question, which never seems to get answered. If someone wants to live under sharia, then why the hell would he want to live in Canada (or any other free, democratic society)? And so, that makes them suspect of having ulterior motives.

re: #44 xrayon

re: #31 David IV of Georgia

I am certainly glad that he did what he did to stop this plot.

His views are far too similar to those he turned in for my comfort.

He wants sharia, that alone should be a reason to deport.

You have to wonder... what are all those devout Muslims who want Sharia doing in North America/Europe... if he wants sharia that bad he can use the $300,000 to buy himself and his family a ticket to any country El-Al doesn't fly to.

They want to take over the world. Here is a little ditty on Hot Air today.

This is a video of the future that Mark Steyn, Robert Spencer, Brussels Journal, Oriana Fallaci and others have been warning us about: European cities going Muslim within our lifetimes. It features a young Belgian woman of Moroccan origins, who went undercover among Brussels’ young Muslims to find out what they think about the country that let them in.

[Link: hotair.com...]

Putting the "fun" back into "fundamentalism"

Now, THERE's a motto I could get behind!

This guy is OK by me!

If you like Haiku
Come visit Motel Zero
Robin Starfish rules!

JWM

This is a courageous young man, and he deserves our gratitude. How many on this forum would have the courage and conviction to do what he did? I've never had a problem with Muslims practicing their religion in peace, so long as they're not bothering anybody while doing it.

A couple of other things stood out in this video.

1) The moron from the Muslim Canadian Congress showing just how twisted his rationale is.

"The notion of a person who rats, as a HERO, is not part of the Muslim psyche, or part of any national psyche. Because of Mubin Shaikh, the terrorist suspects have become heroes."

...terrorist heroes...as IF.

2) The way the BBC guy practically spat out the word SPY in his report. He was almost coming close to supporting the Muslim Canadian Congress' viewpoint just in his tone alone.

“War is deceit”
- Mohammad

I trust this clown not one bit.

re: #55 eff plus

“War is deceit”
- Mohammad

I trust this clown not one bit.

Well as I pointed out... there is something fishy about a person who wants to live under Sharia law, who has the money to accomplish this goal and yet continues to reside in Canada. I don't trust him either.

What's there not to trust?

He was responsible for breaking up a terrorist plot that would have made Oklahoma look like a car crash.

Plus he put his nuts on the line in doing so.

I'd shake the man's hand, without a doubt.

re: #59 buzzsawmonkey

re: #58 manorrd

Oh, I'd shake his hand.

But I'd still want his phone tapped.

:-)

re: #60 manorrd

re: #59 buzzsawmonkey

re: #58 manorrd

Oh, I'd shake his hand.

But I'd still want his phone tapped.

:-)

You never know when a fence sitter will fall over the side or to which side he will fall.

re: #56 xrayon
Any place that has a predominately muslim population becomes de facto a part of the ummah. The first and final loyalty of a muslim is to islam, and the ummah, never to a secular government. War is deceit. Suppose a sworn oath of office- postal carrier, policeman, public servant, politician, or soldier, was in conflict with sharia, or hindered the goals of the ummah. War is deceit.

JWM

I've seen that documentary 3 times now. It was originally made by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, an imitator of the BBC. Surprised it's taken a year to get onto YouTube.

He wants to live under Sharia because he is a Muslim male. What's not to love in Sharia for him?

This just proves that the Islamic culture and belief system are completely bankrupt. Even a 'moderate' who turn would-be terrorists in really wants to live under Sharia...just doesn't approve of the means to get there.

Bottom line: no matter how it is accomplished, ushering Sharia into any is terrorist in and of itself.

re: #5 rain of lead

Might want to check a local park.

Tariq Ramadan on the true loyalty of a Moslem to a nation:

""When I live in a country or when I am a citizen in it, I respect its constitution. This is an Islamic principle." However, he hastens to qualify this statement by stressing that a country's constitution and laws must ONLY be respected "as long as there is no social, cultural, economic, or legal aspect in that country that contradicts any Islamic principle." He makes it quite clear that "the Muslim respects the laws of the country only if they do not contradict any Islamic principle."

from
MEMRI
February 17, 2006
Tariq ramadan - reformist or Islamist?
by A Dankowitz
null

And then there's Prime Minister of Turkey, Erdogan, speaking at Kanal D TV's Arena program on August 21, 2007:

"There is no moderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that's it."

As to why Moslems are in the West instead of basking in the joys of a Sharia-governed Moslem country, it's very simple: the oil is running out, sooner rather than later; their over-population is unsupportable by poorly-developed social infrastructures in Moslem lands, thanks to Islam; Islam is basically parasitic, living off of more developed and richer, non-Moslem cultures; Islam is imperialist in its call to spread its ideology through force; and, lastly, our Western societies are extremely rich, prone to charity and compassion and now poisoned with self-loathing PC, so...the stage is set for high tragedy.

Having said earlier that I would shake the hand of Mubin Shaikh, after seeing this, I also believe he's part of the problem.

Radical or moderate, Islam as a belief system is the antithesis of pretty much any belief system, political system or, religion held or practiced in western civilization. It is most at odds with anything American. The only reason there is some appearance of 'acceptance' in Europe is the illusion created by the shear numbers of Muslims residing there. It isn't as though massive numbers of Judeo-Christian-Secular Europeans have all of a sudden found the Muslim Allah and converted to Islam. The secularists just don't have a mosque or a church where they can be counted. Too bad they are also hiding under the cover of political correctness. Or could it just be fear?
This guy fundamentally believes something completely different that we do here in the U.S. (even if you factor in the completely socialists John Edwards). He still view his religious precepts as the basis for the inextricable fusion of government and religion. Fundamentally incompatible with western ideas and thought. Muslims seem to be of the 'every-man-for-himself-as-long-as-you-make-sure-yo ur-women-are-covered-and-goat-available' school of thought. Not so much on universal health care or even life for infidels (everyone but them).
The whole idea of Muslims residing in any country other than an Islamic one, is just ridiculous from the start. That needs to be the starting point for the discussion.
Let's just take a serious look at why they want to be here in the first place. Hmmm....could be an interesting topic if closely examined with a skeptical eye.
I suggest a survey.

This is how the "moderate" Muslim community must behave in order to be taken seriously when they disassociate themselves from extremists. They must turn on those extremists. It's not enough to just say it.

It's unfair that they find themselves in a position where they must defy potentially dangerous people in order to be believed when they say they are opposed to extremism. I do not envy them. I hope I'd have the courage to blow the whistle in their situation.

I also hope they understand that it is the extremists in their midst who have placed them in this situation, and not the Western societies who have welcomed and accommodated them.

I have a gut feeling something else is underfoot. He wants Sharia law... hmmm... a double agent perhaps? Gain the trust of the police... and plot something far worse? Sorry, but I don't buy this one bit.

re: #69 new2thezoo

A little too sanctimonious for me. Gave his narrative a little hairy eyeball because the truth is not a foundation of the Islamic belief system, but taquiya (sp? always forget how to spell that one) is. Trust but verify. I too think there is another shoe to drop. (ooops, sole up, no offense intended)

This guy is a strange character. I listened to him speaking with people attending the anti-sharia demonstration in Toronto a couple of years ago (before this case happened). BTW - his wife is a Polish Canadian convert who also attended the anti-sharia demonstration to argue in favour of sharia.

#54 manorrd:

I think you misunderstood Tariq Fatah's position. The Canadian Muslim Congress has long opposed fanatical Islam and supported the anti-sharia demonstration. Fatah had to resign his position as head of the CMC after numerous death threats and vandalism of his home.

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

Correction - Fatah's first name is Tarek.

#70 peck
Santimonious... for sure. Put the fun in fundamentalism... that was just for the dhimmi crowd who will eat that up in a heartbeat. And what about the death threats to those who turn on their Muslim brothers? He certainly seems to be in no danger. Better watch this character, he's slippery for sure. Hate to think that way but he still worships the same moon god as the rest of the stan clan. And we all know what their ultimate goal is. Taquiya at it's finest.

The thing is, there is nothing in Islam or the Koran that leads to moderation or toleration. While there have been many moderate Muslims through the ages, their moderation comes from the influence of the society around them, not from Islam itself.

In other words, the only good Muslim is a bad Muslim.

re: #43 Grobe

. . . I have never heard of any kind of carry permit that this guy claimed to have.

The commentary suggested that Mubin had a carry permit because he was army cadet. Something doesn't connect here because in Canada, army cadets learn to shoot Daisy air rifles and don't get any kind of firearms permit. They get a marksmanship badge like Boy Scouts. Even off-duty cops don't carry firearms.

re: #46 Lauraf

Mubin's first appearance was on The Fifth Estate. The RCMP then informed the journalists that releasing the name of any paid informant is against the law. (See: "Man tells CBC he's terror mole: Torontonian says he helped police crack alleged cell; [Toronto / Late Edition]
Stewart Bell and Katie Rook. National Post. Don Mills, Ont.: Jul 14, 2006.")

I did a quick search (using a newspaper database.) I've found several discrepancies...one is "Who contacted whom?" Did CSIS contact Mubin to work undercover -- or did Mubin approach CSIS? (It varies -- sometimes, it's Mubin initiating the contact...from the "Man tells CBC" article above, one reads:

"In a CBC interview broadcast yesterday, Mr. Shaikh described how he was recruited by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service to provide information about extremist activities. 'So I met with the CSIS guys and they were very interested in me now, so basically they put to me the prospect of working with them,' he said."

In another article ("The Making of a Terror Mole" by Sonya Fatah, Greg McArthur, Scott Roberts. The Globe and Mail. Toronto, Ont.: Jul 14, 2006) one reads: "Mr. Shaikh said he contacted the authorities because he thought he might be able to help in their investigation..." So -- did he inflitrate CSIS? Or did CSIS recruit him?

Other gossip from the "Making of a terror Mole" -- Mubin's wife is a Politsh convert to Islam. Mubin was charged with assaulting his aunt (the charges were dropped). And in another article Mubin was again charged with assualt -- this time 2 school girls. The girls had taunted him calling him names (such as "Taliban boy" etc), he chased after them and several charges were laid (uttering threats, assault, etc.) I don't know the outcome of that assault case. (At this assault trial -- that's when he told the media that some of those charged for the Toronto Terror Plot were, in fact, innocent. He claims Steven Chand (the convert to Islam from Hinduism) is "innocent." (There's an article -- "A normal kid transformed:; [Toronto Edition] by Tom Blackwell and Stewart Bell. National Post. Don Mills, Ont.: Jul 4, 2006) in which the article describes how Chand (former Hindu) was changed, also "Along with three of the other terrorism suspects, Mr. Chand worshipped at the Salaheddin mosque in the Toronto suburb of Scarborough, where imam Aly Hindy preaches a fundamentalist Islam." (there's another National Post article about how the police and security people fear the "converts" -- see "Making of a Zealot" Naitonal Post, June 30, 2006.

re: #73 new2thezoo

Don't know if 'slippery' is the word I was thinking of. I was working through what I, as an American (many generations and legal) believe deep in my soul. He has a deep and abiding belief also. It is contrary to mine. He and I disagree at the root. I don't want to live with his beliefs, he doesn't want to accept mine. In his view, my beliefs must change because he cannot accept any other view than Sharia. I don't see any compromise. I'm not going to. Neither is he, at least until he recognizes the Truth. There are lots of sharia believing places - why not go where one would feel comfortable? There are lots of places. Pakistan, Afghanistan, the ME, the Far East, etc. I say, go home, get a job, and leave the rest of us alone. Even if he comes across as a placid nice guy. Not buying it myself.

re: #58 manorrd

Well, sacrifice for the 72 virgins is the way. Maybe his is just another form. Maybe he gets more because he is a really good PR guy. Fool you once......Just looking at another view. Hate it when I am the first fool.

Propaganda the whole propaganda and nothing else.

The entire ethos of this news item is a contradiction.

Total bullshit!

re: #75 Digger Dan

Permits to carry in Canada are very difficult, almost impossible, to obtain. I read somewhere there are probably less than 50 such permits country-wide. The most the average person can get is a permit to transport a handgun from home to a gun range and back.

With regards to this guy, he's a fundamentalist Muslim, first and foremost - and with a very large ego. His methods may differ slightly, but his end-game is the same - Islamic domination. He still wants Sharia law and, unless the Ontario government has done so quietly in the last little while, the regulations banning Sharia law in Ontario haven't been proclaimed into law yet, although the legislation was passed over a year ago. My understanding is that, if they haven't been proclaimed by the time the election writ is handed down on September 10, they die and have to go through the legislature again.

re: #77 peck

See my comment #62
muslims do not immigrate. They colonize.

JWM

Make no mistake, this guy is an islamic supremacist - - The SMART kind of Islamic supremacist who understands that such a massive attack against a (fairly) benign western country at such an early stage in its islamization would be counter-productive to the case . . .

re: #80 the_war_within

It's my understanding (perhaps wrong?) that Sharia arbitration courts were banned in Ontrario -- and the law was passed in February of 2006. ("Ontario passes bill prohibiting religious arbitration" The Globe and Mail. Toronto, Ont.: Feb 15, 2006). The article states:

Ontario has formally passed legislation to prohibit the use of religious tribunals to settle family law disputes such as custody and divorce.

The bill was introduced after Premier Dalton McGuinty promised last year to prohibit the use of religious rules, called sharia law, to settle Muslim family law cases.

Mr. McGuinty surprised many when he announced he would not only ban sharia , but would also prohibit all religious arbitrations in Ontario.

This surprise legislation upset Orthodox Jews and Catholics and some other religious groups, since for 16 years they had used religious tribunals (without problems).

Another day, another Muslim plot of murder and mayhem. If Canada would only get out of Iraq.

Somewhere, in CAIR's secret headquarters...
'Why that little turncoat! Get our attorneys on the line!
SUE HIM!'

Thanks, Charles. That was extraordinary.

My take is that this guy is sincere, and for real. I thought his last statement about challenging the jihadis to "swear by Allah" was persuasive.

And I'm not bothered by his push for Shari'a, as long as he does so by democratic means and the rest of the Canadian public resists, as it should, any "special law(s)" out of "sympathy for," or any misguided ideas about being "tolerant" of, Muslims, any more or in any way differently from how they are tolerant of traditional Canadian citizens.

Jamie Irons

Anyone know where to find Mubin in that video about Toronto Pakistani reporter beating?

It's within the last year.....

re: #87 akak

I don't know about the video or Mubin being in it.. But there's a Globe and Mail article "Pakistan-based Muslim group behind attack, journalist says" by Omar El Akkad. The Globe and Mail. Toronto, Ont.: Apr 20, 2007.

The name of the beaten journalist is Jawaad Faizi. He wrote for the "Pakistan Post," a Mississauga newspaper, and he believed his attackers were part of a group called "Minhaj-ul-Quran" "a Pakistan-based Muslim group led by a religious scholar named Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri. Mr. Faizi said his own trouble began after Mr. Tahir-ul-Qadri, at a meeting with his followers, pointed to the moon..." etc.

re: #80 the_war_within

Yes, this is absolutely true. My firearms trainer told me there were less than 100 carry permits in Canada and they were only available to guards for Israeli diplomats and the like.

re: #86 Jamie Irons

And I'm not bothered by his push for Shari'a, as long as he does so by democratic means and the rest of the Canadian public resists, as it should, any "special law(s)" out of "sympathy for," or any misguided ideas about being "tolerant" of, Muslims, any more or in any way differently from how they are tolerant of traditional Canadian citizens.

Jamie Irons

The sad a disappointing thing is that this guy has bee accused of putting the 'fun' back in fundamentalism by physically harassing members of the moderate Muslim community who don't share in his vision of Islam.

re: #90 manorrd

thanks thats the video I was looking for

re: #91 buzzsawmonkey

I agree with your assessment. Can you imagine what the prosecutors are thinking when they read/hear in the news about how their own informant (and witness) Mubin claims that Chand is innocent? this deliberately scuttles their case. If not so horrific, it would be almost funny...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The guy is a freak.

He is a Muhammedan agent provocateur. He certainly is a rat, but if he rats on other muslims it doesn't mean he has no ulterior motives. I wouldn't put it past him that it was a setup by him.

Did you see how he keeps his female (the breeder) under the full burka, even in the home?

He is a muslim through and through, and he supports the sharia. If he dopped others in it doesn't mean he is not a jihadist.

Whoa, assimilating, digesting, well I'm with buzzsawmonkey. Didn't read all the thread, just jumped ahead to say he sure bears watching. Oh yeah and don't forget the bbc's agenda, a hotty new mohammedan who keeps the wife in bag, but seems like such a swell chap, that hair and hat and cool clothes and all.

What a joker this spy is, a backwards man who travels toward lower levels of consciousness and wants us to go back to 7th century arabia; who wants us to submit to his islamic laws. By his laws, I would have hardly any freedom at all. No thanks, mr. toothy smiles, keep your bag and the hag it rode in on who'll never know the sublime joy to be free to choose one's own destiny. He has done us a favor, now we will be beholden to him, or not. He's a tricky one. Remember, his allah is the best of all plotters, the best of all deceivers. It's in the book.

re: #98 buzzsawmonkey

Yes -- especially those Hindu kids (I believe two were underage and converted to Islam).

Another thing -- from what I've read -- Tarek Fatah said that long before CSIS became involved, Mubin was known (in the community) as a radical and hot head. Then -- Mubin's friend -- that's Momin Khawaja (the computer programmer) in Ottawa is arrested. Khawaja was implicated in a fertilizer bomb plot to have gone off in London. That's (I believe) when Khawaja fingered Mubin...Then CSIS investigated/put under surveillance Mubin. So (I wonder) -- did Mubin decide to "get even" with CSIS? as in "yeah, sure...I'll round ya up some 'radicals'" -- but they (or perhaps some) were the creation of Mubin -- or Mubin playing the role of Osama...I read that it took Mubin nearly two years of indoctrinating his "charges" -- showing them beheading videos, taking them out for paint ball games, etc.

Oh, and another problem now -- it's with Khawaja (he was the first ever to be charged under Canada's new anti-terrorism legislation) -- there's now a Charter Challenge. (See: "Suspect's lawyers launched challenge under Charter" by Melissa Leong. National Post. Don Mills, Ont.: Jun 2, 2007 -- article, in part, states:

"Mr. Khawaja's legal team launched a constitutional challenge over the act's definitions of a "terrorist" and of "terrorist activities," arguing they were overly broad and unconstitutionally vague. Ontario Superior Court Justice Douglas Rutherford responded by ruling that the section of the act requiring authorities to prove terrorism offences are motivated "in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological objective or cause," violates Section 2 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Allowing it to stand would, he said, "promote fear and suspicion of targeted political or religious groups, and will result in racial or ethnic profiling by government authorities at many levels."

re: #97 msdixie

Whoa, assimilating, digesting, well I'm with buzzsawmonkey. [see #91] Didn't read all the thread, just jumped ahead to say he sure bears watching. Oh yeah and don't forget the bbc's agenda, a hotty new mohammedan who keeps the wife in bag, but seems like such a swell chap, that hair and hat and cool clothes and all.

...

Now inform HIM of the fulfillment of the Koranic promises at the Coming of Baha'u'llah... 'Islam' and 'Shari-a' made REAL and universal when the Glory of God brought the Word of God for THIS Day... not for Muhammad's day or Jesus' day...

Very possible that, as Buzzsaw and MsDixie observe also, Mubin is a clever chameleon, hiding in the open, playing on Canadian police's needs and credulity...

VERY dangerous combination!

re: #101 buzzsawmonkey

Yep. "Gaming the system." When I saw that Fifth Estate interview with Mubin, when he came out and told everyone he was the informant -- it was very clear -- "gaming the system" and laughing all the way to the bank. (yet, of course, there have been any number of articles written by the mainstream presses here that have branded Mubin "a hero." but I think of him as a "clever con" and (when provoked) a thug...

re: #94 akak

And when you listen, it is really all a matter of personal interpretation. Just like any guy/gal can stand up preaching, and call himself/herself a pastor of the 13th Street Baptist Church (or whichever street, block, denomination, etc), and an authority based solely upon his/her interpretation and flawed translation, of the Bible (King James Version), so can an Islamic cleric do the same. There is no center. Where is the truth?

re: #86 Jamie Irons

Could you please provide the reference to indicate there is a foundation or base for democracy in Islam? Thanks.

re: #83 J.S.

re: #80 the_war_within

It's my understanding (perhaps wrong?) that Sharia arbitration courts were banned in Ontrario -- and the law was passed in February of 2006. ("Ontario passes bill prohibiting religious arbitration" The Globe and Mail. Toronto, Ont.: Feb 15, 2006). The article states:

Ontario has formally passed legislation to prohibit the use of religious tribunals to settle family law disputes such as custody and divorce.

The bill was introduced after Premier Dalton McGuinty promised last year to prohibit the use of religious rules, called sharia law, to settle Muslim family law cases.

Mr. McGuinty surprised many when he announced he would not only ban sharia , but would also prohibit all religious arbitrations in Ontario.

This surprise legislation upset Orthodox Jews and Catholics and some other religious groups, since for 16 years they had used religious tribunals (without problems).

The law was passed in 2006 and received Royal assent but , to my knowledge, it has never been proclaimed into law. They were supposed to be working on the "nuts and bolts of the regulations" and everything was to have been worked out by last spring. The last article I read was a Toronto Sun article written in February, but I haven't read anything about it since.
[Link: torontosun.com...]
Without the proclamation, my understanding is that it does not become law.

Hits waaay too close to home.
But not exactly shocking.

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

Sorry to find your comment so late, but I think you are right here. We are being lulled into stupification. Sort of like boiling the frog. My concern is waking the frog before it is too late. Not sure what it will take.

re: #106 the_war_within

O NO! I don't [want to] believe it. incredible. but, I guess you're right...(I tried to find this newspaper article or others like it -- to get more info -- in the database -- but couldn't locate the article...maybe the Toronto Sun is not indexed...have to check) Maybe someone could ask the reporter for a follow-up?

I'm late to comment here. But, my reading on this guy is that he is street smart. I think he was willing to throw a few early jihadis under the bus to buy some political capital with the Canadian government. If his testimony holds up, he will have position to make some Sharia compliant demands. Look for foot baths or call to prayer loud speakers or banned alcohol sales or prayer rooms in work places in a largely Muslim neighborhood. I hate to be skeptical, but he's such a one-of-a-kind that until I see more of this, it is hard to swallow. We all want a Muslim to come forward and do what he's done but because of my sensitivity to ulterior motives I have trouble believing him.

Three hundred grand to avoid a bombing three times as big as OKC?

Money well spent, I'd say.

-jcr

re: #111 jcr

Actually, it's far more than 300,000. There was another informant (an Egyptian). He is now under a witness protection program -- and apparently, the pay off was in the millions (no known, exact figure -- but newspaper accounts claim it was "in the millions").