About time!

Abput Friggin Time!

Roll out the bacon!

Good Luck Mates!

While they are at it, convince the native Europeans to raise some dang children and fight the demographic war.

Maybe there's hope for Europe after all...

Im sure the EU will pass a law making the coalition illegal.

This has got to be someone's idea of PORK.

"Let's Roll!"

re: #5 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

What's up LT?

OK, where can I sign up?

Let the seething begin!

This is a good development. More power to them!

re: #10 Endangered in MASS

re: #5 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

What's up LT?

Passing well. Life is good.

re: #12 JamesTKirk

Too late.

I agree with all of the above comments but I wonder if it's not:

Too Little, Too Late

re: #5 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Good Luck Mates!

While they are at it, convince the native Europeans to raise some dang children and fight the demographic war.

Amen to that, brother.

Play some Barry White music through loudspeakers in all towns and cities.

re: #14 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Hoo ahh!

Drive on LT drive on.

Pam of Atlas Shrugs is there too.

Counter Jihad Activities

re: #7 pegcity

Im sure the EU will pass a law making the coalition illegal.

Yes, as a "rightwing hate group". I see one of the names on the list is Filip Dewinter, accused of being a old time neo-nazi since the 1980s, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter, with people like him on the list this group will go nowhere.

Anything we can personally do here or abroad to help out?

re: #18 Ward Cleaver

Amen to that, brother.

Play some Barry White music through loudspeakers in all towns and cities.

Ha! That's the spirit! Bring back the 25+ member Italian family and they still have a chance (oh, and lock down the imigration problem).

For a fee, I'm willing to help. Bwahaha

Islamophobes Unite!

/

More backlash is good. The more the better.

Bring back the Knights Templar!

1) I too was wondering if this group is going to get co-opted by the extremist right wing? (has it already or will it be? should by-laws/motions, etc., be put in place to prevent its hi-jacking?)
2) Can the public obtain Video of the 2-day Event? Transcripts? I would be interested in the expert who presented info on Islamic Banking...(says there's a book in the works...(?))

What side will Britain be on? Swedes neutral again?

That's sort of like the passengers of the Titanic organizing a life boat drill. A bit late; however, better late than never.

Incoming US army chief says US forces are capable of operations against Iran’s nuclear facilities or other targets

At his first conference as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Michael Mullen said Friday: “From a military standpoint, there is more than enough reserve to respond if that, in fact, is what the national leadership wanted to do,” he said. “And so I don’t think we’re stretched in that regard.”

'Overstretched broken military' my ass.

Let's hope it catches on in the USA!

How do we get involved?

We were watching a recent show on Animal Planet about fat pampered dogs and cats in the UK. My wife made the astute observation that maybe one reason the muslims hate the average white european so much is that the average white european treats his pet better than the average muslim treats his daughter.

Someway, somehow the islamists and their leftist enablers, George Galloway et al, will get this branded as hate speech or hate idea and get it outlawed. I have no hope for Europe at all. Sheeple they are, or at least a significant amount of them.

This is what Muslim Tories advocate:

We disagree with the suggestion that “foreign preachers and scholars advocating the rejection of the institutions and values of democracy” should be denied entry into Britain. As advocates of democracy, we oppose those who argue that Islam is incompatible with democracy. However, it is the mark of a mature and liberal democracy that it accepts people's freedom to disagree. If a political party wishes to campaign, constitutionally, for the abolition of democracy in the UK and its replacement by a totalitarian system, why should it not be free to do so? Furthermore, why should foreigners who advocate a peaceful change in that direction be banned from entry to the UK

Sure, march on in and overthrow the host society! You didn't want to be free in your own country anyhow.

it is one thing to advocate wide-ranging debate in society, people whose interests are long term in amicable to society invariably stand for the proposition that undemocratic elements have a right to militate and undermine democracies. This is a classic example of those seeking to use freedom to overthrow freedom.

That's great. Hopefully they will come to Brussels and I'll be happy to join.

One serious red-flag, however, from the list of names at Gates of Vienna: Filip Dewinter of Belgium. This fellow has treaded well into the far right (put mildly) arena for a long-time now. I tend to support his party's positions (Vlaams Belang) but remain extremely disgusted with this particular individual.

Viva la Roma!....

Vatican: You Can't Discuss Religion With Muslims....

The top Vatican official for Islam has praised a novel Muslim call for dialogue but said real theological debate with them was difficult as they saw the Koran as the literal word of God and would not discuss it in depth.

The only time when it's "too little and too late" to fight for your freedom is when you're dead. Perhaps the European-bashers would care to devote themselves to one or two problems with islamization and sharia a bit closer to home?

Anyone interested in helping the Europeans can have a look at the links, addresses, telephone numbers and representatives' names over at the Gates of Vienna article.

I think it's time to rock the casbah.

re: #30 Kenneth,

The Democrats want to cut it until it is overstreatched. Nearly all the cuts in the '90's were in the Military (if not all of them).

re: #5 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Good Luck Mates!

While they are at it, convince the native Europeans to raise some dang children and fight the demographic war.

No kids, no future.

It's that simple.

Charles, from your link:

On October 18 and 19, over 70 organizations and individuals joined together in the European and Flemish Parliaments to create a European network of activists from 14 nations to resist the increasing Islamisation of their countries. Keynote speakers included Bat Ye’or, author of Eurabia and Dhimmitude and Robert Spencer, author of Religion of Peace, Why Christianity is and Islam Isn’t. Additional speakers included David Littman, Dr. Arieh Eldad, member of the Israeli Knesset, Dr. Patrick Sookhdeo, Director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, Sam Solomon, Director of Fellowship of Faith for Muslims and author of the Charter of Muslim Understanding, Dr. Marc Cogen, Ghent University, Dr. Andrew Bostom, author of The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism, and Laurent Artur du Plessis, author of a forthcoming book on shariah finance

From these small voices mighty forces may grow...

I for one welcome our new Islamic Overlords! Allah Akhbar!

re: #2 buzzsawmonkey

Sausages will be served.

Jimmy Dean's Pure Pork Sausage!

re: #26 redshirt

Bring back the Knights Templar!

I just went to get a link on the recent news about them. Some "EuroNews" web site is calling them the "stormtroopers of the Crusades."
No bias there.
But this is good news.

The EU will introduce a law outlawing "Islamaphobia" and
tie it to the "Holocaust Denial" laws they are proposing. Criminalising open comment on the past and at the same time preventing any challenge to Islamisation of Europe in the future. The proverbial "lamb to the slaughter".

great. good on these infidels gathering together to address the barbarian threat.

Unfortunately this looks like a fringe group preaching to the choir. The fact is that the socialist left runs the show in Europe. They own the media and education system (since long before they got their grubby hands on it in the US). This group only provides a convenient "islamophobic" bogeyman for the leftwing/islamist establishment.

To really change things in Europe the liberal left has to be convinced that their freedoms are under attack, that islamic "ultra-conservatism" is a danger to their values and way of life.

The sad thing is that the odds are those 70 individuals and organizations are far more likely to end up on watch lists than the real threat. Somewhere along the way intolerant Islam and constant demands for accomodation of violence, repression, militancy, and simple thuggery became the status quo.

re: #36 WeaselZipper

These 'officials' should be reminded to loop back to Regensburg, then ask Benedict what he thinks about 'convergence'...

Gates of Vienna Down. I suspect a left-wing mugging.

re: #41 Ginn

And look who else:
[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

re: #50 xtraBilly

Gates of Vienna is up. No problem.

This is good news, on it's face, however I question how long this will last. Let's face fact, folks, the Muslims in Europe will be raising the Islamophobia charge in response to this coalition, and they'll begin levying pressure on the EU and European leaders to quash this. In the meantime the coalition members can try to roll back as much of the creeping shari'a as they can, and try to end the invasion/occupation of Europe. But I'd like to recommend to europe to take Mark Steyn's advice to heart:

If you want to end this, start having babies. The demographics don't lie, and Muslims are rapidly becoming the leading demographic across Europe.

re: #40 Ringo the Gringo

After reading America Alone it becomes all too clear that the demographic spiral is almost impossible to pull our of. The numbers needed become exponentially harder to reach since you've got less to start with. Very scary.

/Father of 4

re: #36 WeaselZipper
Watch for the Pope to say something about the 137 Muslim letter this Sunday.

Tauran hinted Benedict might use a major inter-faith meeting in Naples on Sunday to respond to the appeal. "The pope will be there at the start and will certainly say something," he told La Croix without elaborating.

Seethe alert.

Atlas is there with Andrew Bostom and Robert spencer and id reporting on her blog.

Atlas Shrugs

re: #42 Peacekeeper

I for one welcome our new Islamic Overlords! Allah Akhbar!

Come closer so I can kneel before you!
Good.
Good.
I will kneel now.
(adjusts belt, sliding hand up on to grip of Sig .10 hidden under leather coat)
Drops to one knee.
(puts into practice the 1.5 sec drill)
One smooth action draw, aim, two rounds down range.

BAWHAHAHAHAHAHA!

See how a LIZARD kneels!

re: #57 jcm

PIMF Sig .40

Unfortunately, the Swedish representative Ekeroth is a member of a pretty vile party called Sverigedemokraterna (Sweden democrats), which was originally an openly racist organization. Recently they've tried to put of a different facade, but I'm not convinced.

re: #54 Spenser (with an S)

re: #40 Ringo the Gringo

After reading America Alone it becomes all too clear that the demographic spiral is almost impossible to pull our of. The numbers needed become exponentially harder to reach since you've got less to start with. Very scary.

/Father of 4

It has an inertia to be sure, but the death spiral is a product of _rates remaining as they are_.

Change the rates, you get a different result.

But yes, wait too long and there aren't enough of you to change the rate... unless they do something akin to reopening the camps (to change the "opposing team's rate"), something they _do_ have a history of...

re: #30 Kenneth

Incoming US army chief JCS Chairman says US forces are capable of operations against Iran’s nuclear facilities or other targets

There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that this is true. Very few of the Air Force's or Navy's assets are decisively engaged in this war, which is what we need for a strike against Iran.

Could we send 150,000 ground troops there? No.

But nobody intends to.

It'll be interesting to see which direction this goes. There's the potential for it to go very good or very bad.

For laughs, they should put a Death Threat Counter on their front page.

Where do I send the donation?

re: #61 lobo91

re: #30 Kenneth

Incoming US army chief JCS Chairman says US forces are capable of operations against Iran’s nuclear facilities or other targets

There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that this is true. Very few of the Air Force's or Navy's assets are decisively engaged in this war, which is what we need for a strike against Iran.

Could we send 150,000 ground troops there? No.

But nobody intends to.

I pray we are supporting and coordinating with resistance elements in Iran. That the strike not only hits the nuc sites, but the Command and Control including dinner Jacket and the Mad Mullahs. In the resulting the chaos the resistance can step up.

That also means we have to leave infrastructure intact for the most part.

re: #60 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

True. The EU has a much wider chasm between their leaders and the bureaucrats and the people. Very little leverage can be brought to bear on them like we have had to do recently. If that pops- Look out.

re: #60 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

re: #54 Spenser (with an S)

re: #40 Ringo the Gringo

After reading America Alone it becomes all too clear that the demographic spiral is almost impossible to pull our of. The numbers needed become exponentially harder to reach since you've got less to start with. Very scary.

/Father of 4

It has an inertia to be sure, but the death spiral is a product of _rates remaining as they are_.

Change the rates, you get a different result.

But yes, wait too long and there aren't enough of you to change the rate... unless they do something akin to reopening the camps (to change the "opposing team's rate"), something they _do_ have a history of...

Something I have not seen anyone give more than a nod to is the long-term effects of the widespread refusal in the muslim world to immunize their children, calling vaccinations a "crusader plot to destroy them." HEH.

How soon are the EU and individual European governments going to start arresting the members of these 70 organizations?

re: #57 jcm

Inspiration from 300 there?

re: #42 Peacekeeper

YOU!

re: #47 Peter Verkooijen

To really change things in Europe the liberal left has to be convinced that their freedoms are under attack, that islamic "ultra-conservatism" is a danger to their values and way of life.

For that, they'd have to care about freedoms. They only care about power.

re: #61 lobo91

re: #30 Kenneth

Incoming US army chief JCS Chairman says US forces are capable of operations against Iran’s nuclear facilities or other targets

There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that this is true. Very few of the Air Force's or Navy's assets are decisively engaged in this war, which is what we need for a strike against Iran.

Could we send 150,000 ground troops there? No.

But nobody intends to.

Yeah, exactly. The war in Iraq isn't diminishing our ability to wage war--it is diminishing our ability to wage nice war.

Organizing to Resist the Islamization of Europe

Another testosterone deficient, comatose view of REALITY! One does not resist islam, and survive, one ruthlessly crushes islam in order to survive. Only by utterly crushing islam, can we hope that we, and our progeny can remain free...and that mankind can continue to advance, generation after generation, for the common good.

Anything else dooms mankind to the fetid ignorance which is islam.

My fear is that this group might not be sufficiently politically savvy...First and foremost they've got to protect themselves from allegations of being "extremist right wingers", "fascists" etc. (Frankly, I have little trust that this will be done --as others have pointed out they'll be branded as "hate-mongers," then ostracized (or, worse, jailed as rabble-rousers.)

re: #5 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Good Luck Mates!

While they are at it, convince the native Europeans to raise some dang children and fight the demographic war.

And stop the flow of Muslim immigrants to your countries.

re: #59 Dave of Sweden

Unfortunately, the Swedish representative Ekeroth is a member of a pretty vile party called Sverigedemokraterna (Sweden democrats), which was originally an openly racist organization. Recently they've tried to put of a different facade, but I'm not convinced.

OK, that confirms my suspicions. This group is a disaster! Steer clear!

re: #68 nikis-knight

re: #57 jcm

Inspiration from 300 there?

WE ARE SPARTA!
A little, a little Die Hard, a little Rambo,

re: #33 pingjockey

Or they'll just turn their dhimmi heads while each of these brave folks get shot and stabbed like Theo Van Gogh.

If they are serious about Resisting the Islamization of Europe then they better start stocking up on these...

re: #78 doriangrey

Didn't those dhimmi Europeans give up their right to bear arms a long time ago?

....what we need for a strike against Iran.

why not keep it simple? next time they have one of those "whole government" rallies/parades, have the AF load up the B-2's with 500lb JDAMS and carpet the site. instant decapitation of the top "leadership" and their most fervent supporters.

the video will be a hit on youtube.... %-)

re: #75 Peter Verkooijen

Relax...take a deep breath...let us wait and see (although I agree that there are reports of far too many of the potential crazoid rightist wing-nuts.) Maybe something good can be salvaged from the particular presentations (the transcripts, etc.) delivered by the speakers at the Conference (?) (But, as you observe, perhaps as a viable "political" unit able to exact political change -- forget it -- it'll be squashed by the Leftist press, media pundits, EU people, etc.)

re: #42 Peacekeeper

I for one welcome our new Islamic Overlords! Allah Akhbar!

U left off the u in Allahu ;>)

I wish them well in their efforts to organize to resist the Islamization of Europe.

One indispensable thing that they have to do is to convince the non-Muslim population of Europe to reproduce itself, to stop the demographic situation in which the number of deaths each year exceeds the number of live births each year, for the non-Muslim population.

The Muslim population doubles every generation; the non-Muslim population declines every generation. That trend determines Europe's fate.

If they don't change that, then the most that they can do is to postpone the inevitable Islamization of Europe.

Even if they expelled a number of Muslims, and even if they refused to allow more Muslims to immigrate into Europe (neither of which is likely, anyhow), the most that that would do would be to delay the Islamization of Europe. The discrepancy between the rapid natural growth rate of the Muslim population with its median age getting younger and younger, versus the natural declining numbers of the non-Muslim population with its median age getting older and older, tells just what is going to happen. This is heading toward one day having a large Muslim population that is young, and a small non-Muslim population that is old. As it approaches that stage, the tilting will accelerate, because an old non-Muslim population will have a more substantial death rate, and practically zero birth rate. And large numbers of young Muslims will have a very low death rate, and a very substantial birth rate.

All the other likely methods of dealing with the problem are of no long-term importance. They don't change what will happen, only when it will happen.

Perhaps some non-shariah outposts might be established in Europe, if Europe's Islamic overlords will permit that. But more likely, the non-Muslims will have to become dhimmis, and throw themselves on the Muslim majority for protection. As dhimmis, they will have to pay the jizya, accept humiliation, accept severe restrictions on what they can do, but live to see another sunrise. But their children, if the past is any guide to the future, will likely want to avoid the onerous humiliations and restrictions, and they will convert to Islam.

re: #71 nikis-knight

Yeah, exactly. The war in Iraq isn't diminishing our ability to wage war--it is diminishing our ability to wage nice war.

It irritates me to no end when I hear these morons yaooing about how we're "indiscriminately slaughtering" civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I don't think the Air Force or Navy has dropped an unguided bomb in either country in several years. Hell, we're making our snipers call for approval before they can shoot at anyone who's not shooting at them first.

If we were truly indiscriminately shooting at people, there would be no one left alive in Iraq today.

re: #28 pat

What side will Britain be on? Swedes neutral again?

Well, we know the Scots are ready to set about them.....

re: #83 EE

I wish them well in their efforts to organize to resist the Islamization of Europe.

One indispensable thing that they have to do is to convince the non-Muslim population of Europe to reproduce itself, to stop the demographic situation in which the number of deaths each year exceeds the number of live births each year, for the non-Muslim population.

The Muslim population doubles every generation; the non-Muslim population declines every generation. That trend determines Europe's fate.

If they don't change that, then the most that they can do is to postpone the inevitable Islamization of Europe.

Even if they expelled a number of Muslims, and even if they refused to allow more Muslims to immigrate into Europe (neither of which is likely, anyhow), the most that that would do would be to delay the Islamization of Europe. The discrepancy between the rapid natural growth rate of the Muslim population with its median age getting younger and younger, versus the natural declining numbers of the non-Muslim population with its median age getting older and older, tells just what is going to happen. This is heading toward one day having a large Muslim population that is young, and a small non-Muslim population that is old. As it approaches that stage, the tilting will accelerate, because an old non-Muslim population will have a more substantial death rate, and practically zero birth rate. And large numbers of young Muslims will have a very low death rate, and a very substantial birth rate.

All the other likely methods of dealing with the problem are of no long-term importance. They don't change what will happen, only when it will happen.

Perhaps some non-shariah outposts might be established in Europe, if Europe's Islamic overlords will permit that. But more likely, the non-Muslims will have to become dhimmis, and throw themselves on the Muslim majority for protection. As dhimmis, they will have to pay the jizya, accept humiliation, accept severe restrictions on what they can do, but live to see another sunrise. But their children, if the past is any guide to the future, will likely want to avoid the onerous humiliations and restrictions, and they will convert to Islam.

You are making a big assumption that the Muslims will be "nice" enough to prefer conversion to slavery for Europeans. That was often the case in Europe in the past, so it is a reasonable assumption- but not guaranteed.

Look at the countless millions of Africans enslaved by Muslims over the millenia, for example.

I understand the potential of this or any group to go right or left, but at the very least, we have 14 countries representing what we all here know and see as a danger. So while we have people calling islam a Religion of Peace, these representatives actually see the problem and perhaps can help pull some more 'heads out of the sand'. This can't be seen as a bad thing (yet). Let's wait a bit and see which direction it leads. I have a suspicion there are many of us who just feel, well, what can I do? I believe many are beginning to see the light and perhaps with a group like this, the light can grow more brightly and many more will wipe the sand from their eyes. If the movement gets big enough (without crazies taking it over), we just may well win!

Sort of Off Topic:
Hello everyone, I'm very glad to come aboard as a Private in King Charles I's Army of Lizardoid anti Jihadists, and also glad to be a supporter of Emperor Misha I's anti idiotarians.

I've been organizing (under the username of Patrick Vykkers) on another forum to stop Islam, but it just ain't working;
[Link: www.oddworldforums.net...]
[Link: www.oddworldforums.net...]
[Link: www.oddworldforums.net...]
[Link: www.oddworldforums.net...]
I opused as an eventual result ([Link: www.oddworldforums.net...] stupid dhimmis. Anyway, just presenting my creds.

On Topic:
Liberals assessments of Iraq are like the show trials of Stalinism. The result is already decided by the MSM and their Muslim backers and intimidators, all else is smoke and mirrors to thinking people. It's only recently I've become aware of how truly biased our media is, and to be honest it was growing to notice a huge elephant in the room.

re: #81 J.S.

re: #75 Peter Verkooijen

Relax...take a deep breath...let us wait and see (although I agree that there are reports of far too many of the potential crazoid rightist wing-nuts.) Maybe something good can be salvaged from the particular presentations (the transcripts, etc.) delivered by the speakers at the Conference (?) (But, as you observe, perhaps as a viable "political" unit able to exact political change -- forget it -- it'll be squashed by the Leftist press, media pundits, EU people, etc.)

And don't forget that we have something else that is helping to open the eyes of even the most inane head-in-the-sand dummies in Europe. The behavior of our Mohammedan friends.

Today again cars are burning in Amsterdam, while the police is looking on, and politicians dither and talk and propose stupid measures which even a child can see will be totally useless..

Today in another area of Amsterdam several dozen Muslims decided to pray in the street because in the mosque (which they were given by squatters) only one hundred people are allowed to pray for safety reasons, on order of the fire department. They plan to keep it up until they have a big enough place to use as a mosque. On top of the violence in one area it will not go down very well with the indigenous population (as we are now called apparently) to have Muslims sticking their bums in the air on the street in yet another part of Amsterdam every Friday.

Keep seething, oh followers of the moon god. Eyes are opening left, right and center.

It’s important to note that not all the people who are hitching a ride on the anti-Islamization movement are doing it for honorable reasons.

The saying 'All that glitters is not gold' comes to mind with these sort of people.

re: #83 EE

I wish them well in their efforts to organize to resist the Islamization of Europe.

One indispensable thing that they have to do is to convince the non-Muslim population of Europe to reproduce itself, to stop the demographic situation in which the number of deaths each year exceeds the number of live births each year, for the non-Muslim population.

The Muslim population doubles every generation; the non-Muslim population declines every generation. That trend determines Europe's fate.

If they don't change that, then the most that they can do is to postpone the inevitable Islamization of Europe.

Even if they expelled a number of Muslims, and even if they refused to allow more Muslims to immigrate into Europe (neither of which is likely, anyhow), the most that that would do would be to delay the Islamization of Europe. The discrepancy between the rapid natural growth rate of the Muslim population with its median age getting younger and younger, versus the natural declining numbers of the non-Muslim population with its median age getting older and older, tells just what is going to happen. This is heading toward one day having a large Muslim population that is young, and a small non-Muslim population that is old. As it approaches that stage, the tilting will accelerate, because an old non-Muslim population will have a more substantial death rate, and practically zero birth rate. And large numbers of young Muslims will have a very low death rate, and a very substantial birth rate.

All the other likely methods of dealing with the problem are of no long-term importance. They don't change what will happen, only when it will happen....

That’s a fair assessment of the situation. But, it’s more complicated than that.

Because most politicians usually try to dilute their voter base that does not favor them they swing open the immigration laws. The politicians make all sorts of flowery socialistic promises to entice the new base. These promises usually don’t work and the new base simply rebels.

Worse, to entice new immigrants lush social handouts are usually made. The costs of the social handout are borne by the old base. The old base is then relatively impoverished and has to reduce the size of their families just to survive (or not have a family at all). The old base economically subsidizes the new immigrants.

There are other negatives to the immigration scam. The new immigrant’s work and criminal record can be suppressed thus giving them an economic advantage over a natural born citizen with a life long record in said country.

This fact was displayed when the “doctors" in the UK tried to bomb the airport – but only succeed in burning themselves. If these immigrant doctors had displayed their entire anti-social past they never would have gotten a job or the ability to bomb the airport. But, the system failed and the “doctors” did - at the expense of home grown doctors who were over-looked for a job.

Sadly, these factors in addition to the factors EE noted lead one to believe that Europe will be dhimmified at some point.

re: #89 infidel4ever

Say, do you know why the Muslims are seething? I've heard conflicting stories. Why are they burning cars? (One report said it was because of the treatment of a Muslim who went to a police station and ended up stabbing a police officer...) then I've read that the Muslims are outraged because of the brothels/prostitutes/drinking establishments. They want these places closed down because they're too close to where Muslims live...(?) Or is it just seething for seething's sake...to flex some "muscle" (?)

If not for the passivity of the average European and Leftist Europe would have taken a little more self-interest in their future a few decades ago. Since the average citizen basically lives with his head in the sand the "defense", if you will, of Western civilization has fallen to the most far right, nationalistic elements of society. If normal Europeans had more interest in self-preservation then far right groups would have remained marginalized. However, since Lefties have pretty well succeeded in squashing any national pride in most Europeans (and too many Lefty Americans) they have given rise to a new nationalism embodied in far right groups. As the demographic situation deteriorates and the EU continues to dictate law over the will of the people the right will only grow stronger. The same thing will eventually happen here. It's already happening in Quebec as the dominant culture is increasingly challenged by growing minorities with divergent interests. The fruits of the multiculturalism tree are being borne!

re: #47 Peter Verkooijen

There seems a certain lack of consistency in your viewpoint: the 'liberal left' will NOT be convinced, at any time, that Islam and Moslems are a threat to their own liberties because the 'liberal left' are our true enemies; the moslems, and the tide of illegal aliens and 'immigrants' into Europe (and the US) are used as enablers by the Left to secure its plan to be the Ultimate State. The Left may be naive or unrealistic in its assessment of how effectively it can continue to manipulate these groups but, for the moment, these groups are assisting quite well in the destruction of the West and its values.

re: #92 J.S.

re: #89 infidel4ever
Say, do you know why the Muslims are seething? ...

Probably all of the above.

I tried to get more information from leading Amsterdam newspaper Het Parool. Their homepage would be almost funny if it wasn't so depressing:

Jongeren veroordelen rellen
AMSTERDAM - Jongeren uit het Amsterdamse stadsdeel Slotervaart komen vrijdagmiddag met een manifest waarin ze hun afkeuring uitspreken over de ongeregeldheden in de wijk.

'Politie pakt jongeren op die niets hebben gedaan'
AMSTERDAM - Politie en justitie gaan veel te ver door jongens op te pakken die niets hebben gedaan. Om de rust in het Amsterdamse stadsdeel Slotervaart te bewaren, worden vrijheden ten onrechte ingeperkt.

Jongeren veroordelen rellen
AMSTERDAM - Jongeren uit het Amsterdamse stadsdeel Slotervaart komen vrijdagmiddag met een manifest waarin ze hun afkeuring uitspreken over de ongeregeldheden in de wijk.

Three stories about "jongeren" or "youth". One story ("Youth Condemn Riots") repeated to hammer home the point.

The other story's title is "Police arrests youth that have done nothing wrong". The story claims the police is cracking down and trampling on freedoms and rights.

Nothing to see here people...

Eurabia is a sad place!

re: #94 Cry of defiance and not of fear

re: #47 Peter Verkooijen
There seems a certain lack of consistency in your viewpoint: the 'liberal left' will NOT be convinced, at any time, that Islam and Moslems are a threat to their own liberties because the 'liberal left' are our true enemies; the moslems, and the tide of illegal aliens and 'immigrants' into Europe (and the US) are used as enablers by the Left to secure its plan to be the Ultimate State ...

I meant the "liberal left" as opposed to the "socialist left". Liberal in the continental European sense is pro-capitalist. I meant leftwingers that are more "social liberal" (in the American sense) than "economic liberal".

The American use of the word "liberal" is all wrong! The Dems were hijacked by socialists in the early 1970s. They continued calling themselves "liberals", but their program has nothing to do with classic, 18th century liberalism (the liberalism that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is talking about). It's socialism.

Islamofascists to the left of me! Former Nazis to the right of me! Duck and cover!

I can't remember how many times I've had to explain what "liberal" means in Europe. Reminds me of the ESPN commercial about football and soccer.

re: #95 Peter Verkooijen

What a white-wash! Now that's lousy "reporting" (if you can even call it "reporting")...(I noticed the same with the French car riots -- no reporter could get a handle on what was really going on...) Very, very curious..."The Two Solitudes." (that's what they use to call the divide between Anglos and French in Canada -- neither ethnic group ever spoke or interacted with the other...).

America's patriotic Minutemen are still regularly accused of being trigger-happy vigilantes even though there has not been a single proven allegation of violence against any of the thousands of citizen border watchers over several years.

So you can't worry about name-calling from the sons of Allah and their lefty pals, if you want to save western civilization.

I will try to put this as delicately as possible...

Europe is already beyond the line between peace and war. Whether the Islamation is stopped or it continues, the path ahead is bloody.

To maintain Europe's standing as a Western continent, the surging tide of Muslims must be turned back... and that will not be a pretty or clean undertaking. The soft niceties of post-WWII Europe will not suffice... to believe you can win and keep your hands clean is the road to dhimmihood. Stay soft and you will lose. Period.

The unsavory types you worry about now may become necessary allies in the future... think Roosevelt/Stalin. Ugly..? Yes, but better than losing.

re: #59 Dave of Sweden

Unfortunately, the Swedish representative Ekeroth is a member of a pretty vile party called Sverigedemokraterna (Sweden democrats), which was originally an openly racist organization. Recently they've tried to put of a different facade, but I'm not convinced.

This is false. They've had their share of suspicious members though, who now have left for other organisations (I think). Ekeroth is most certainly not a racist though.

re: #99 Beagle

Same thing is happening here in UK with the BNP trying to entice the Jewish vote and ditching their anti-semitism past but they still show signs of anti-semitism although they term it 'Judeo obsession'

It should also be mentioned that the Sweden Democrats are the most Israel-friendly party in Sweden.

re: #96 ploome hineni

1. A lot of the original "Nazi" leaders are still within the organization.
2. Their greatest support is among people/counties that are traditionally xenophobic.
(3). Ekeroth is actually Jewish, but still a real SOB.

re: #106 atblomkal

Yes, but I believe they only prefer Jews to Muslims.
I don't think they like neither Jews nor Israel.

The only thing which is clear is that Jews in Europe should be leaving. The establishment Left courts HAMAS and Hizballah, people who want to murder the Jews today. The oppositon has some people who denied the Holocaust and are described as "Nazis." Not sure what that means in Belgium these days, but it can't be good.

#107: There used to be people in the party that probably were real extremists, yes, but they have been forced to leave. I think they are gradually becoming a more established and serious party. And although I still disagree with them on some points, the treatment they have received in Sweden is appalling.

re: #110 Fjordman

Appalling?

Even if they really are legit now, their past justifies a serious questioning.

I couldn't read all the comments, and maybe I'm repeating what someone has already said, but I just have to take issue in the strongest possible terms with this outrageously slanderous statement on behalf of "Dave from Sweden":

Unfortunately, the Swedish representative Ekeroth is a member of a pretty vile party called Sverigedemokraterna (Sweden democrats)

Dave from Sweden, if you are reading, give a shred of evidence to support your claim. Take any statement from the party's program on their website. In fact, for anyone who reads their program, the lie of your statement is very evident.

Sverigedemokraterna are not - I repeat, are most emphatically not - a racist party! Not by any measure! And no, I am not a member of this party.

I just have to add. Sverigedemokraterna is the most pro-Israel party of Sweden.

Even if they really are legit now, their past justifies a serious questioning.

I'm not talking about serious questioning, I'm talking about the fact that they, and others, have been assaulted, harassed and beaten up by Leftists for years with little or no reaction from the media and the authorities. And if we're talking about the past, the Social Democrats were decidedly pro-Fascist before WW2 and are formally cooperating with the Fascist organization the Muslim Brotherhood today.

re: #111 Dave of Sweden

re: #110 Fjordman

Appalling?

Even if they really are legit now, their past justifies a serious questioning.

How interesting. You start by calling them a vile party. You then continue by saying that "you are not convinced." If you are not convinced then how come you call them a vile party? A little bit later you backtrack and say that their past should be questioned. So are they or are they not a "vile party"?

They don't hide their past unlike other parties or politicians. The neo-nazi flank has fallen away and formed another party. There is absulotely nothing racist in their current party program. Or are you a mind reader?

I wish Charles didn't post this update without verifying first. An honorable group of people have been slandered and vilified.

#113 ex cathedra

Yes, I'm reading. And I respect your opinion that I'm wrong about that party, but as I said: I'm not convinced.

I was half way in to a long rebuttal when I realized that this has become an internal Swedish debate, which is of no interest to LGF readers. Am I wrong?

There is that 'racist' word again. Like 'Islamophobe'- the great boogeyman, the fiery dragon in our nightmares, to scare us off.

What's worse? Islam or the perceived racists?

Yes, most of us have problems with those who would openly discriminate against another people because of the colour of their skin.

Perhaps it is the biggest problem we have, in order to organize. But we know racism and we know how to deal with it. It shouldn't scare us the way it does.

But most of us don't know Islam and don't realize how dangerous it is for freedom and democracy. We need all the help we can get. I say get with the program and lets sort the racists out later.
What say you?

re: #115 ex cathedra

I wish Charles didn't post this update without verifying first. An honorable group of people have been slandered and vilified.

I did research this group, and there are some troubling things in their history; I didn't post without looking into them.

Be careful here. I don't of Gaigher directly, but she's a member of the Northern League... and they pretty much consider any Italian south of Rome to be of suspect blood purity. Jihad bad, racism bad too.

re: #117 sheik yer'mami

There is that 'racist' word again. Like 'Islamophobe'- the great boogeyman, the fiery dragon in our nightmares, to scare us off.

What's worse? Islam or the perceived racists?

Yes, most of us have problems with those who would openly discriminate against another people because of the colour of their skin.

Perhaps it is the biggest problem we have, in order to organize. But we know racism and we know how to deal with it. It shouldn't scare us the way it does.

But most of us don't know Islam and don't realize how dangerous it is for freedom and democracy. We need all the help we can get. I say get with the program and lets sort the racists out later.
What say you?

No, I do not agree. True racists have their own agenda, which they will hide and lie about in order to hitch a ride on a popular cause. It's very dangerous to associate with those types.

re: #116 Dave of Sweden

I was half way in to a long rebuttal when I realized that this has become an internal Swedish debate, which is of no interest to LGF readers. Am I wrong?

Keep on debating! It is a good way for us to learn some things about Sweden... your fine country doesn't get a lot of coverage in the US press.

re: #116 Dave of Sweden

#113 ex cathedra

Yes, I'm reading. And I respect your opinion that I'm wrong about that party, but as I said: I'm not convinced.

I was half way in to a long rebuttal when I realized that this has become an internal Swedish debate, which is of no interest to LGF readers. Am I wrong?

Since you started it and since a lot of people are reading this blog and might remember the name of this party, it would be very helpful if you came up with any official statement by this party made in the last few years that is remotely racist.

Yes, they had some bad eggs before, but they have kicked these people out and have officially taken a distance from their views. I am not aware of any incident that shows them to be insincere. And I follow them in the media as well as read comments on their website regularly.

To be fair, I posted your link to the Sverigedemokraterna web site, and noted that there is a disagreement about the characterization.

#123: Thank you, Charles. Like I said, I don't think there is any disagreement that there used to be some questionable members of that party before, the question is whether this is still valid today. Keep in mind that Sweden is one of the most politically repressive countries in the Western world and that there is absolutely no serious debate about immigration among the established parties. It really is difficult to find a decent party to vote for in that country.

re: #118 Charles

re: #115 ex cathedra

I wish Charles didn't post this update without verifying first. An honorable group of people have been slandered and vilified.

I did research this group, and there are some troubling things in their history; I didn't post without looking into them.

Charles, with all due (huge) respect, I believe that the research you did was based on very suspect sources. Sweden Democrats is the only party in Sweden today that is clearsighted about the dangers of islamization. It is the only party that attempts to debate the current dangerous situation. They do not say nor hint racist things. Their program and rhetoric is radically different from that of the BNP (and even the BNP has reformed itself to some degree).

They are consistently lied about in the Swedish media. The Swedish establishment and the leftists are not to be trusted on the information about this party.

re: #120 Charles
Charles sez:
No, I do not agree. True racists have their own agenda, which they will hide and lie about in order to hitch a ride on a popular cause. It's very dangerous to associate with those types.
*
Agreed. That makes them no different from the Muhammedans. You're right in that its very dangerous to associate with those types.
That's why I said it is the biggest problem we have altogether, because we're still a tiny minority and they're already playing the race-card very successfully to discredit us.

Well, I guess we have to draw the line from the very beginning.

re: #122 ex cathedra

Well, I don't really see the point. If you check my previous posts you can see that I only described their past and that I'm not convinced that they have really changed.

As you yourself wrote, they have "some bad eggs" amongst them, and I for one am not convinced that their "constituency" has changed.

re: #125 ex cathedra

re: #118 Charles

re: #115 ex cathedra

I wish Charles didn't post this update without verifying first. An honorable group of people have been slandered and vilified.

I did research this group, and there are some troubling things in their history; I didn't post without looking into them.

Charles, with all due (huge) respect, I believe that the research you did was based on very suspect sources. Sweden Democrats is the only party in Sweden today that is clearsighted about the dangers of islamization. It is the only party that attempts to debate the current dangerous situation. They do not say nor hint racist things. Their program and rhetoric is radically different from that of the BNP (and even the BNP has reformed itself to some degree).

They are consistently lied about in the Swedish media. The Swedish establishment and the leftists are not to be trusted on the information about this party.

But even you and Fjordman admit that in the past, they were associated with neo-Nazis. I do not think it's wrong to be wary of any group that has that sort of thing in their past.

re: #92 J.S.

re: #89 infidel4ever

Say, do you know why the Muslims are seething? I've heard conflicting stories. Why are they burning cars? (One report said it was because of the treatment of a Muslim who went to a police station and ended up stabbing a police officer...) then I've read that the Muslims are outraged because of the brothels/prostitutes/drinking establishments. They want these places closed down because they're too close to where Muslims live...(?) Or is it just seething for seething's sake...to flex some "muscle" (?)

Sorry, had to go out for a while.

Well, the Islamic idiot who jumped across the counter and attacked two police officers without any provocation whatsoever certainly deserved what he got, so that can't be it. But they are using it as an excuse (the police should have shot him in the leg...). Yeah, right.

I had not heard that the Muslims are outraged because of the brothels/prostitutes/drinking establishments. Hehehe, good excuse for seething, though. If they want these places closed down because they're too close to where Muslims live, I suggest these Muslims move their asses back to Morocco. I am sure it is a much more moral country than the Netherlands, has no prostitutes or drinking, and they will obviously be much happier there.

I think they are showing some muscle. Intimidating the natives, that sort of thing. They have had a good look at the current crop of "leaders" we are stuck with, the dhimmi's are paying them money hand over fist for all sorts of new programs to improve "integration" and "living conditions" (which the Mocro's screwed up themselves), so they probably feel the time is right to grind us down under their heels a bit more. I am getting the feeling that all it takes is one incident, one person who decides his car is not going to get burned, and there will be real trouble. (One guy posted in the comments of a newspaper that he had some gasoline standing by on his balcony just in case somebody tried to burn his car). Well, that might lead to an interesting conflagration.
Reader comments in the on line newspapers are getting more vitriolic by the day about this subject. Good. Some more people might wake up.

Charles,
the left is smearing all of us with the 'racist' and 'far right extreme' tag anyhow, either way.

In Germany the world renown holocaust surviver, Jewish writer and philosopher Ralph Giordano, who opposes the mega-mosque in Cologne is smeared as a 'right wing extremist'- just like the left makes you look like Eva Brown next to Adolph in a cartoon from a few days ago.

But this is the dilemma we must overcome. Anyhow, check this out:

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

re: #129 infidel4ever

They run amok because an unbeliever killed a believer. That can't be.
Islam must dominate and not be dominated by the kuffar.
That's basically it.

Tactically it's just not a good idea to associate yourself with people or groups that have been widely branded as racists, rightly or wrongly. It makes it very easy for the European establishment to demonize you. Pim Fortuyn refused to work with Filip Dewinter. Ultimately it didn't save him, but he would never have been as relevant as he was if he hadn't.

re: #128 Charles

re: #125 ex cathedra

re: #118 Charles

re: #115 ex cathedra

I wish Charles didn't post this update without verifying first. An honorable group of people have been slandered and vilified.

I did research this group, and there are some troubling things in their history; I didn't post without looking into them.

Charles, with all due (huge) respect, I believe that the research you did was based on very suspect sources. Sweden Democrats is the only party in Sweden today that is clearsighted about the dangers of islamization. It is the only party that attempts to debate the current dangerous situation. They do not say nor hint racist things. Their program and rhetoric is radically different from that of the BNP (and even the BNP has reformed itself to some degree).
They are consistently lied about in the Swedish media. The Swedish establishment and the leftists are not to be trusted on the information about this party.

But even you and Fjordman admit that in the past, they were associated with neo-Nazis. I do not think it's wrong to be wary of any group that has that sort of thing in their past.

Wary - perhaps. Adopt a wait-and-see attitude - yes. Call them a "vile party" - emphatically no. They have not done anything to deserve this epithet since their official dissociation from the neo-nazi wing, which has gone to (or formed - not sure here) the National Democrats party.

They strongly support Israel. A huge plus in my book. I have not seen any antisemitic statements by this party's representatives.

re: #124 Fjordman

It really is difficult to find a decent party to vote for in that country

.

Fjordman.....it is really difficult to find a decent party to vote for in this country....U.S.A. .....just saying

re: #129 infidel4ever

I see...What a mess...(you know, I suspect virtually everyone -- in the West -- will be seeing the same sort of things -- seething car burnings..and nobody will quite know "why?" It just adds to the polarization...and suits the clerics and the radicals...)

Actually, this is the link I wanted to post about Giordano:

Cologne: Giordano Receives Death Threats and Fatwa’s for Opposing Mosque

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

re: #127 Dave of Sweden

re: #122 ex cathedra

Well, I don't really see the point. If you check my previous posts you can see that I only described their past and that I'm not convinced that they have really changed.

As you yourself wrote, they have "some bad eggs" amongst them, and I for one am not convinced that their "constituency" has changed.

Dave of Sweden, you shouldn't have called them a vile party. If you find something objectionable in their politics today, you should mention it. I would like to know as well. Then I would revise my positive opinion. Otherwise, you can say that this party has an unsavory past from which they have officially disassociated. But we should be careful nonetheless and wait longer in trusting them. This makes more sense to me.

re: #132 Peter Verkooijen

Tactically it's just not a good idea to associate yourself with people or groups that have been widely branded as racists, rightly or wrongly.

But I just got in. Damn.

re: #127 Dave of Sweden

re: #122 ex cathedra

Well, I don't really see the point. If you check my previous posts you can see that I only described their past and that I'm not convinced that they have really changed.

As you yourself wrote, they have "some bad eggs" amongst them, and I for one am not convinced that their "constituency" has changed.

Yes, another thing. One could judge the constituency of the party by the comments left in the party leaders' blogs. I don't know if they automatically delete racist comments, but the comments that are there I find unobjectionable.

re: #130 sheik yer'mami

..the left is smearing all of us with the 'racist' and 'far right extreme' tag anyhow, either way.

But -- there is a difference if the person stating "so-and-so is a racist" versus smearing someone with a false label of "racism". The distinction must be made between the liars and those who tell the truth. It's up to us to always try our hardest to make that distinction -- and never, ever, be satisfied with what the liars try to tell us.

Anyway, I checked out (on the Internet) one of the names given..and it does appear that the individual was making statements of a racist nature -- both xenophobic and anti-immigrant and aligning Muslims with a "virus" etc. (One of the things about political correctness is that even in the newspaper articles, the alleged racist statements are never actually quoted -- it has to be tip-toed around...this in itself makes it more difficult for the public to know what exactly was said, and so you don't get direct quotes, you get approximations which are toned down. Anyway, though, apparently things were said which probably shouldn't have been said...and particularly not in a super-charged environment..

re: #131 sheik yer'mami

re: #129 infidel4ever

They run amok because an unbeliever killed a believer. That can't be.
Islam must dominate and not be dominated by the kuffar.
That's basically it.

And an infidel WOMAN at that! Hehe, clobbered by a girl, what a way to go for a mohammedan!

re: #135 J.S.

re: #129 infidel4ever

I see...What a mess...(you know, I suspect virtually everyone -- in the West -- will be seeing the same sort of things -- seething car burnings..and nobody will quite know "why?" It just adds to the polarization...and suits the clerics and the radicals...)

How do you fight back without getting polarized?

re: #141 ploome hineni

The multi-culti Lefties will call anyone that is concerned about the preservation of their culture (anyone in the West that is) a xenophobe. It is yet another "ist" term in their arsenal to silence dissent from the Left multi-culti party line. Silence will kill us all.

Oddly though they will do whatever is required to ensure primitive 3rd world peoples are kept in a pure and primitive "natural" state.

re: #145 infidel4ever

It is, indeed, very, very difficult.. I noticed, btw, that with the Sweden Democrat party webpage link -- they use the terms "final solution" for the Muslim problem...(which is, for them, expulsion / deportation from Sweden).

we all have the right to preserve our own culture and way of life

Do we? I sometimes have the distinct feeling that Europeans don't have this right, whereas everybody else does.

re: # 141 ploome hineni

What I meant with xenophobic is the kind of people who automatically frown upon people with different traditions.

To me it is O.K. to question culture, religion or whatever idea one might have; as long as it has some base in reality. Just like questioning a political ideology.

re: #151 Fjordman

we all have the right to preserve our own culture and way of life

Do we? I sometimes have the distinct feeling that Europeans don't have this right, whereas everybody else does.

Fjordman,

Europeans certainly have the right, unfortunately they just don't have the will. And if they continue to cede their rights to the EU they WILL lose that right.

re: #148 J.S.

I really don't know anything about this Swedish party, and I don't think it is very smart of them to use a term like "final solution" in this context, even if they only refer to expulsion/deportation. But I think basically, if we want to have our own countries back the way they were, we will have to get rid of Islam and its followers permanently. I don't believe a "religion" with a guidebook like the Koran is ever going to be permanently peaceful. Before you know it one or the other imam will get his knickers in a twist, start preaching hell and damnation to the kufr once more, and the whole business starts all over again.

re: #149 ploome hineni

Well, not everyone -- there are still ex-nazis around (as you've noted) and large numbers of neo-nazis...There's also, I hear, a growing nostalgic movement for nazi "values" in Germany...it has something to do with how wonderful (vunderbar) German women breeders were treated by the SS.

Interesting thread.

Brenda (#102),

America's patriotic Minutemen are still regularly accused of being trigger-happy vigilantes even though there has not been a single proven allegation of violence against any of the thousands of citizen border watchers over several years.

And racists.

So you can't worry about name-calling from the sons of Allah and their lefty pals, if you want to save western civilization.

Very true. If we were to go with the characterizations made by the media of groups that don't rise to their level of political correctness and idealogical approval we'd be completely wrong 95 time out of 100.

Europeans don;t care

We don't? The thing is, we will be called Nazis if we do fight back for real, and frequently by the same people calling us cheese eating surrender monkies now.

Earlier this month, I was on tour of Brugge, Belgium, a stop on my Jewel of the Sea cruise. In one of the store windows, there was a large display of Crusaders artifacts most were done in pewter. These were well made pierces. There were Knights of the Templar and other knights.
Thus there is a current of hope in Belgium of resistances to islam.

re: #158 J.S.

re: #149 ploome hineni

Well, not everyone -- there are still ex-nazis around (as you've noted) and large numbers of neo-nazis...There's also, I hear, a growing nostalgic movement for nazi "values" in Germany...it has something to do with how wonderful (vunderbar) German women breeders were treated by the SS.

And the wonderful highways Hitler managed to build. They seem to be mentioned an awful lot lately.

re: #159 Geepers

Interesting thread.

Brenda (#102),

America's patriotic Minutemen are still regularly accused of being trigger-happy vigilantes even though there has not been a single proven allegation of violence against any of the thousands of citizen border watchers over several years.

And racists.

So you can't worry about name-calling from the sons of Allah and their lefty pals, if you want to save western civilization.

Very true. If we were to go with the characterizations made by the media of groups that don't rise to their level of political correctness and idealogical approval we'd be completely wrong 95 time out of 100.

I agree with this, mostly. But there's a big difference between a group like the Minutemen, which has no history of racism or violence, and groups like the BNP or the Swedish Democrats, who do have a well-documented history of racism. It's not wrong to be wary of groups like that -- in fact, it's necessary.

Fjordman (#160),

The thing is, we will be called Nazis if we do fight back for real, and frequently by the same people calling us cheese eating surrender monkies now.

Welcome to our world. On any given day Americans are called backward uncultured rubes and imperialistic warmongers bent on world domination.

Ploome: I don't trust your judgment on this as you have openly displayed your hatred for Europeans too many times.

I just want to add that I think the Sverigedemokraterna should be avoided. Even if they have made a clean break with their neo-nazi origin (which I kind of doubt), they have a very unsavoury reputation.

re: #160 Fjordman

Europeans don;t care

We don't? The thing is, we will be called Nazis if we do fight back for real, and frequently by the same people calling us cheese eating surrender monkies now.

The question is: should we care what they will call us? When I comment in my local online paper I am regularly called a xenofobe, a fascist or a racist. So what? The ones that call me names are the Muslims hiding behind a Dutch name and/or their leftist enablers. The more hysterically they call me names, the clearer it becomes to the rest of the readers what dipshits they are. Don't underestimate the educational value...

Charles (#166),

It's not wrong to be wary of groups like that -- in fact, it's necessary.

This is good advice in all circumstances.

re: #157 infidel4ever

I sometimes suspect that some of the more extreme right-wing parties are appealing to racist ideology -- but doing so in coded language -- not openly, but covertly. so terms such as "final solution" are slipped in -- and it's "wink/wink, nudge/nudge" to their followers, while publicly they'll say, "we're not racists!"

It's too bad that there is not somewhere in Europe a non-leftist, reasonable, moderate, conservative, sensible political voice. I see nothing wrong with expelling radical Imams, jailing hatemongers who preach "Death to Infidels", or giving out jail terms for those who threaten the life of others (I watched a clip from CNN on that fellow who drew the cartoon of the prophet Mo with a dog's head -- CNN also interviewed a female Muslim, covered head to toe in black, and what did she say -- on camera? Once again, she issued a death threat against the artist -- that's on air, on camera -- well, I would hope that the authorities would immediate arrest said Muslim and lock her up -- in jail where she belongs until she recants her vile death threats. That's what should happen. And in societies which abide by the rule of law, or wish to call themselves "civilized," death threats would not be tolerated. Instead, of course, the authorities ignore the evil threats made by this Muslim woman -- and so what inevitably happens? The threats increase, they grow, actions then follow...The situation simply grows worse.

The question is: should we care what they will call us?

Because this whole thread evolved into a definition of "racist" and "Fascist."

re: #148 J.S.

re: #145 infidel4ever

It is, indeed, very, very difficult.. I noticed, btw, that with the Sweden Democrat party webpage link -- they use the terms "final solution" for the Muslim problem...(which is, for them, expulsion / deportation from Sweden).

Wait a minute, they advocate the deportation of those immigrants that are criminal. They also say that the immigrants who don't work and abuse the welfare system ought to return to their native country. There is no suggestion to deport all immigrants wholesale, whatsoever. When they talk about the "normal final solution to the refugee problem" (I agree - an unfortunate term), they mean something else entirely. They have been arguing for a while that it is a bad idea to bring refugees to Western countries automatically. Instead one should build refugee camps in a safe area just outside the area of conflict, and the refugees' cases should be sorted out there, not in a refugee compound in Sweden. This has nothing to do with legal immigrants.

"The next book tells us about Sweden's crucial role supplying Nazi Germany iron ore and military facilities. Especially notorious for their support to the Nazis were Wallenberg family, SEB bank and SKF factory. The Swedish government was responsible for the most iron ore that Nazis received."

Sweden is a comparably small country that at the time neither could feed itself nor supply the energy required to keep its economy going. Blockaded by the Germans we traded with them, just like the US traded with Japan until the summer of 1941.

re: #163 ploome hineni

I was replying to your statement: "suddenly, now that muslims are being targeted, everyone is horrified about nazis" and I stated, "well, not everyone..."

infidel4ever sez:

The ones that call me names are the Muslims hiding behind a Dutch name and/or their leftist enablers
*
How true.

If I had a dollar for every Muhammedan agit-prop posting under some fake Christian or Jewish moniker I'd be off to Tahiti...

re: #162 infidel4ever

Did you know that the claim that the nazis built the Autobahn is a propaganda lie? The actual builder of the Autobahn was a mayor (I believe it was Nuremberg). It was his idea -- the nazis then took it over...they sent out camera crews and a work detail (to make it look as if the highway was under construction by nazis -- in reality, the highway had already been built -- it's just that the nazis wanted to falsely claim it as "their project.")

"how many asians, blacks muslims buddhists have they killed?"

Several of their prominent members are or were convicted felons. Assault is unfortuneately not unknown on their resumes. But that's not really the point, associating with them is a certain way of making most Swedes wary.

I'm not so sure about their pro-Israel stance either. I believe this to be a common slur from their more orthodox rivals, the National Democrats, who are more traditionally anti-semitic. Occasionally it's hard to tell them apart from communists, since they tend to use the same arguments. In the forum I used to visit until a month ago a very prominent Jewish visitor preferred to associate with Muslims rather than the SDs.

re: #176 J.S.

re: #157 infidel4ever

...
It's too bad that there is not somewhere in Europe a non-leftist, reasonable, moderate, conservative, sensible political voice.

Sweden Democrats is such a party.

re: #176 J.S.
re: #157 infidel4ever

I sometimes suspect that some of the more extreme right-wing parties are appealing to racist ideology -- but doing so in coded language -- not openly, but covertly. so terms such as "final solution" are slipped in -- and it's "wink/wink, nudge/nudge" to their followers, while publicly they'll say, "we're not racists!"

I just know that in the Netherlands a party like the PVV (Geert Wilders) is always labeled as "extreme right", and he himself is often attacked because of his xenophobia, islamophobia etc. Which is total rubbish, it is just pointing fingers and sticking labels because they have no answer for his arguments. There is certainly no "wink, wink, nudge , nudge" going on in my country. As I said, I don't know anything about the Swedish party (oh, dear, more homework!).

And yes, I think it is our inaction against all these hate-mongers that is encouraging them to get worse and worse. It is partly our own fault.

"Then its all right"

No, it's not all right. It's just the kind of compromises small and militarily weak nations sometimes are compelled to make.

And your source is in error, trade with Japan continued until 1941. The cessation was more of less the reason why Japan made the stupid decision to attack Pearl Harbour.

Some may be "unsavoury". Hmmm. Does it matter? Here in UK things are so desperately stifled that people are turning to the BNP as an outlet for protest votes. Does it matter? The BNP and that fridge party are never going to attain power, so why worry about them...except that of course the media will seize on any such weak link as a means of traducing the entire enterprise. But does it matter.

People here are so sick of being told what to think under threat of being dubbed "racist" that there is a discernable tendency to raise a truly challenging question: Is racism always bad? I know tremendously decent and un-bigoted people who, without a seconds hesitation, will declare themselves to be racist. Isnt it really just about being honest regarding Human Nature. Isnt denial of our natural tendency to racism like trying to deny being a gay or pretending to be monogamous. Fundamentally absurd.

Of course, the big trend is demographic. The biggest change of prospects for Western Europe in recent years has been the huge influx of East Europeans, particularly Catholic Poles. The question is whether they will stay. I cannot deny that going to a shop and hearing almost nothing but Chinese and Polish being spoken can be irritating. But I would prefer that to the growing passive-aggression of tides of brown faces swaddled in jilbabs/chadors/jashmaks or whatever they want to call them this week, which I also have to tolerate on a daily basis.

Thats just it, a person has only so much tolerance. We English are nearly out of that commodity.

re: #188 Pennies

"how many asians, blacks muslims buddhists have they killed?"

Several of their prominent members are or were convicted felons. Assault is unfortuneately not unknown on their resumes. But that's not really the point, associating with them is a certain way of making most Swedes wary.

I'm not so sure about their pro-Israel stance either. I believe this to be a common slur from their more orthodox rivals, the National Democrats, who are more traditionally anti-semitic. Occasionally it's hard to tell them apart from communists, since they tend to use the same arguments. In the forum I used to visit until a month ago a very prominent Jewish visitor preferred to associate with Muslims rather than the SDs.

1) in their debate they have demonstrated that there is a larger percentage of felons among the Social Democrats, in fact.

2) "most Swedes are wary" because they are brainwashed and don't read alternative news sources but buy into whatever the mainstream media feeds them.

3) As for the Jew who would rather associate with muslims - well, what an ignorant fool.

So far I have not seen any facts in you and others' postings. Only hearsay. I keep an open mind and am ready to revise the good opinion I have formed so far. Please give me something real to consider.

re: #190 infidel4ever

I've also read/heard the labels (especially those against the late Pym F.) which are (I believe) false allegations...The author of "While Europe Slept" makes an excellent case against the charges of Pym having been "racist" or "xenophobic." Pym wasn't racist -- he just feared what his country would turn into...given the nature of fundamentalist Islam (hatred for gays, hatred for women, hatred of anything libertine).

re: #183 sheik yer'mami

infidel4ever sez:

The ones that call me names are the Muslims hiding behind a Dutch name and/or their leftist enablers
*
How true.

If I had a dollar for every Muhammedan agit-prop posting under some fake Christian or Jewish moniker I'd be off to Tahiti...

It is a good thing Dutch is a difficult language to learn. There are lots of little things that go wrong in their spelling or choice of words. Hehehe.

re: #194 J.S.

re: #190 infidel4ever
...
The author of "While Europe Slept" makes an excellent case against the charges of Pym having been "racist" or "xenophobic."

Bruce Bawer also said some cautiously optimistic things about Sweden Democrats, if I remember correctly. It's been awaile since I read his book.

Pennies (#191),

And your source is in error, trade with Japan continued until 1941.

And your source?

Because, no offense, I'm not taking your word for it.

re: #187 J.S.

re: #162 infidel4ever

Did you know that the claim that the nazis built the Autobahn is a propaganda lie? The actual builder of the Autobahn was a mayor (I believe it was Nuremberg). It was his idea -- the nazis then took it over...they sent out camera crews and a work detail (to make it look as if the highway was under construction by nazis -- in reality, the highway had already been built -- it's just that the nazis wanted to falsely claim it as "their project.")

Oh really? No wonder Nazi's and Muslims liked each other so much. They both know how to brag about somebody else's achievements!

re: #192 AliAbDab

Be glad that you have Polish and other Eastern Europeans in England. They are much more aware of the Muhammedan agenda than your own cheese-eating PC-countrymen. Besides, most of them intend to return to their homelands after making some money. The Muhammedans came to drive the natives out and it looks very much like they're succeeding.

I doubt that if the Muslims had been in Germany during WWII they would have escaped the gas chamber. They may have even been first in line.

re: #198 infidel4ever

LOL. I like that one...Now, I must get going...It's been an interesting and informative discussion. I enjoyed it.

re: #192 AliAbDab

Thats just it, a person has only so much tolerance. We English are nearly out of that commodity.

Yes, that is exactly the feeling I get in the Netherlands too. People are just totally fed up with the daily whining and seething and verbal b*llshit.

"And your source?

Because, no offense, I'm not taking your word for it."

Don't, read up on the conference with the Dutch and British where a trade embargo was decided upon.

"The United States (after having renounced the U.S.-Japanese trade treaty of 1911), United Kingdom, Australia and the Netherlands (which controlled the oil of the Dutch East Indies), reacted in 1941 by instituting embargoes on exports of natural resources to Japan. The western powers also began making loans to China and providing covert military assistance."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Military History is my hobby, world war 2 is my subject.

I've lost the commenter who said this, but it sums up what is going on:

I understand the potential of this or any group to go right or left, but at the very least, we have 14 countries representing what we all here know and see as a danger. So while we have people calling islam a Religion of Peace, these representatives actually see the problem and perhaps can help pull some more 'heads out of the sand'. This can't be seen as a bad thing (yet). Let's wait a bit and see which direction it leads. I have a suspicion there are many of us who just feel, well, what can I do? I believe many are beginning to see the light and perhaps with a group like this, the light can grow more brightly and many more will wipe the sand from their eyes. If the movement gets big enough (without crazies taking it over), we just may well win!

This is the very first meeting of the group, organized by European and American bloggers working together. Security was a real issue, especially given what happened in Brussels on 9/11/2007.

There will be other meetings, larger and stronger. We must do *something* even though, as parts of this thread are proving, we will be called names. I am vilified by some "friends" because I'm a lizardoid. You know, those "right wing extremists f***tards" -- as we have been called. Shall we be like them and allow no room for dissent?

The Center for Vigilant Freedom was the moving force behind this, and will continue to work to make inroads into a very difficult, complex problem. It carefully vetted each attendee, especially since some groups will use violence to close us down.

I am grateful to Fjordman for taking up for the meeting in Brussels in this thread. He knows *exactly* what is going on...which is why is he respected.

As Rabbi Hillel put it: If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when?

Those so inclined may curse the darkness. For me, I am grateful for the endless hours -- and money -- the Baron spent in helping to light this candle. Long may it burn. I miss him, I hope there aren't any terrorists on the plane coming home, and I look forward to hearing about the speeches.

I presume there will be video and abstracts. Some have already emailed that they are planning to put up information on their blogs when they arrive home. Good old Pamela did her bit with pictures and lots of commentary. Visit Atlas Shrugged for the first view of things.

re: #201 J.S.

Me too. Bye!

"As for the Jew who would rather associate with muslims - well, what an ignorant fool."

He had this giant chip on his shoulder, which tend to reduce effective IQ. But my point is still valid, associate with the SDs and you will help the leftists to shame all opposition through guilt-by-association.

re: #192 AliAbDab

Yes, it does matter.

Is racism always bad?

Yes, it is.

dymphna,

it does feel like a light at the end of a tunnel. I feel some sense of relief that something has begun to happen, that there is now an organization to fight aganst the onslaught of islam. It's good that you manage to organize things in secret so that no one could sabotage your meeting.

Good luck to you and to all of us!

Sheik Yermami...thats my point. We want the Easterns to stay and make lots of babies to counterbalance the shrinking majority in the UK. without them, within 50 years most UK residents will be of Pakistani descent. But will the Easterns stay? A friend of mine reported yesterday that she took a temp job that a load of Poles had r4efused because it was just boring. They may become disenchanted with life here. The Brits think they live in paradise probably because they are generally too stupid, ignorant and habituated to being abused by their authorities that they know no better. Its a fools paradise. In ten or twenty years it may be Sarajevo/Bosnia/Kosovo, the sequel.

re: #207 Charles

Charles I agree. Unfortunately one of the Left's tactics is to equate nationalism and the desire for cultural preservation as equivalent to racism in order to weaken and discredit those fighting against cultural relativism and multiculturalism. We need to work to counter that. I for one believe anyone can be a proud Westerner regardless of national origin. I know a lot of subcontinental Indians and think they are great Americans or Americans to be. We have to continue to make the distinction that nationalism and cultural survival are not racist positions.

re: #206 Pennies

"As for the Jew who would rather associate with muslims - well, what an ignorant fool."

He had this giant chip on his shoulder, which tend to reduce effective IQ. But my point is still valid, associate with the SDs and you will help the leftists to shame all opposition through guilt-by-association.

Things change, though. Reputations are won. It hasn't always been like today, and it will not always be.

I consider and deal personally with this subject often. I'd summarize it the following way: anyone who speaks up about Islamization, immigration policies, against socialism or similar issue is typically branded a "racist" by the left and by believers in multiculturalism in Europe. The vast majority of the time it is utter nonsense and reprehensible. And yet there is not a negligible element of far right ideology and actual racism within Belgium, Germany, France, Austria, etc. Cases include Le Pen, Dewinter, NPD MPs in Saxony, and Juerg Haider, who is now governor and a genuine Nazi sympathizer. These cases, and similar people who tinge their rightist politics with racism, do an incredible amount of harm to anti-Islamization movements and legitimate rightist European parties. The situation in the US, Canada, the UK and Australia is quite different because the conservative-right parties are strong and there is no tolerance for racism. Regular conservatives in Belgium, on the other hand, face an extremely unfortunate and dire situation in which they must strike a deal with a guy like Dewinter. Such is the case with Vlaams Belang, which is composed of two factions. The end result of all this is that no matter what gains non-white supremacist groups make it is so easy for the socialists to trot out the party's past support for Le Pen, e.g., or a few of the far right figures in the group to "prove" to everyone that the right are in fact "racist." Left enjoys one PR victory after another using this tactic. I believe the only solution is for conservatives to start from the ground up and to sever all ties with racist histories or political affiliations with extreme nationalist groups.

re: #204 dymphna

I appreciate what's happening in Brussels and it's long overdue, but I cannot agree with the idea that they should be making alliances with groups with racist, extremist histories. That's the wrong way to go, and it's going to backfire.

re: #212 Yank in the EU

These cases, and similar people who tinge their rightist politics with racism, do an incredible amount of harm to anti-Islamization movements and legitimate rightist European parties.

The burden should be on people who use invective to prove their "guilty by association" claim.

re: #213 Charles

I agree that it is wrong but I disagree that it will backfire. In Britain for example it it the BNP that is speaking the loudest about the danger posed by uncontrolled immigration and Islamization. All the other parties toe the PC line on the subject. Where else are Britons concerned about losing their country to turn? No other party will discuss the issue for fear of being labeled racist. As I said way back up in post 93(?) the weakness of the major parties on the issues of immigration and Islamization leaves a political vacuum readily filled by these far right parties. The only way to stop them is to provide people with an alternative. But will it happen? Not likely because, again, of the fear most politicians have of being called "racist" by the Left. This fear guarantees the rise of the far right as the only alternative willing to speak for the concerns of the average citizen regarding their national identity.

Pennies says:

Military History is my hobby, world war 2 is my subject.

And you're sending me to an unsourced reference at Wikipedia?

"Sweden is currently weighing the abolition of the statute of limitations on genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes but will not do so retroactively, so there is no chance that any Nazi war criminal will ever be prosecuted in Sweden."

We have a constitution we try to follow. It's not sympathy for nazis as your source tries to imply.

re: #214 ex cathedra

re: #212 Yank in the EU

These cases, and similar people who tinge their rightist politics with racism, do an incredible amount of harm to anti-Islamization movements and legitimate rightist European parties.

The burden should be on people who use invective to prove their "guilty by association" claim.

Well, in their charges against Filip Dewinter, Le Pen and Haider, they need make no such charge. When you affiliate with a party and support it, you are not responsible for everything all the members of the party do or say, but when, for instance, there is an established and open tradition of support for neo-Nazis, this is extends beyond mere guilt by association. To simply charge this fallacy does not absolve one of ties with immoral policies or groups. This is the problem that plagues the Vlaams Belang.

I think a wait-and-see attitude is probably the most prudent. Given that Bat Y'eor, Paul Belien, Andrew Bostom, Nidra Poller, etc., were willing to show up and speak for this meeting tells me we are on the right track.

As they say, "perfect is the enemy of good enough." This is an example of that.

The bad ones -- if there are any -- will be weeded out. As they have been in the formation of the Center for Vigilant Freedom. Weeding takes time, care, and diligence.

As a counter example, I can't find one Republican candidate I want to vote for come 2008. OTOH, I can't stay home and let Miz Hillary do us in. If we wait for perfection, we're doomed.

Yank in the EU (#212),

And what would you know it?

;-)

re: #213 Charles

re: #204 dymphna

I appreciate what's happening in Brussels and it's long overdue, but I cannot agree with the idea that they should be making alliances with groups with racist, extremist histories. That's the wrong way to go, and it's going to backfire.

The simple fact is that whoever does not toe the PC multicultural line is going to be called a racist etc. Whether it is true, whether it used to be true, it does not matter. Simply because it is effective. So I don't know if we should stop people from joining in our struggle because of stuff that happened in the past. The present is another thing, of course.

re: #215 derkrieger

re: #213 Charles

I agree that it is wrong but I disagree that it will backfire. In Britain for example it it the BNP that is speaking the loudest about the danger posed by uncontrolled immigration and Islamization. All the other parties toe the PC line on the subject. Where else are Britons concerned about losing their country to turn? No other party will discuss the issue for fear of being labeled racist. As I said way back up in post 93(?) the weakness of the major parties on the issues of immigration and Islamization leaves a political vacuum readily filled by these far right parties. The only way to stop them is to provide people with an alternative. But will it happen? Not likely because, again, of the fear most politicians have of being called "racist" by the Left. This fear guarantees the rise of the far right as the only alternative willing to speak for the concerns of the average citizen regarding their national identity.

I agree that the average European citizen has been backed into a corner, by the multicultural policies of their leaders. I don't agree that the correct way to handle this is to jump into the arms of groups like the BNP.

And by "backfire," I mean that if the average Brit does give the BNP and their like free reign, it's going to result in some very bad times.

"And you're sending me to an unsourced reference at Wikipedia?"

Find a book instead, then.

And by "backfire," I mean that if the average Brit does give the BNP and their like free reign, it's going to result in some very bad times.

I'm not so sure. If the average Brit joins the BNP b/c there is no alternative don't you think the real racists will be overwhelmed by Brits motivated by national survival? Could they also not force the BNP to accept like minded minorities? I'm sure there are many Brit minorities just as fearful of Sharia as there are whites.

re: #220 Geepers

Almost a decade on a continent will tend to build bonds ;)

Conservatives are basically lone-wolves out here, watching what they say so they don't freak sensitive lefty folks out. It's always like a miracle to meet a fellow with similar views.

re: #224 derkrieger

And by "backfire," I mean that if the average Brit does give the BNP and their like free reign, it's going to result in some very bad times.

I'm not so sure. If the average Brit joins the BNP b/c there is no alternative don't you think the real racists will be overwhelmed by Brits motivated by national survival? Could they also not force the BNP to accept like minded minorities? I'm sure there are many Brit minorities just as fearful of Sharia as there are whites.

And they'll be rightfully terrified of the BNP, who are most assuredly not their friends.

This Sverigedemokraterna seems to be very much like Britains BNP. Openly racist past, nationalist agenda, polished new 'non-racist' image, shiny reasonable or at least semi-reasonable sounding website. The Islamists would love us to get these guys on board, they really would.

Liddell Hart's History of the Second World War, pocket edition, page 208:

"In reply Presiden Roosevelt demanded, on July 24th, 1941, the withdrawal of Japanese troops from Indo-China -- and to enforce his demand he issued orders on the 26th freezing all Japanese assets in the United States and placing an embargo on oil supply."

Countries trade with each other, that is the natural order of things and is not proof of complicity, no matter how some want to spin it.

May I throw in the spat over Dr Watson, who has cancelled his public appearances and returned to the US as a result of being villified as a racist by the Independent, two front pages running. His crime was to suggest that the problems of Africa may be due to Africans being less intelligent. The question, the only one, rationally, is whether this is correct. The reaction of anti-racist bigots is to act as though it cannot be. Of course, ALL questions should be open. Holocaust? well haven't the "sceptics" been themselves traduced. Nutters like Ahmadinajad may well try to deny the mass killing of Jews by NAZIS, but many others who do not dispute the millions murdered simply question whether it was a deliberate policy originating personally from Hitler. Don't get me wrong, I believe it was Hitlers intention. But that doesnt mean we must label all who question that as "deniers".

As far as genetics and Dr watson is concerned, data also indicates that Chinese people are more intelligent than Caucasians. If it showed that South asians were also, would he be dubbed a racist for saying this. It all comes back to blaming "whitey" and the ideology of inverted racism under which we live. I am not happy with allthis hair-splitting over who is or is not a racist. The only thing that should matter is what policies they advocate.

Lets be frank, I detest fat people. Of two candidates for a job, I would not pick the fat one. But that is not the same as saying I would put them in concentration camps and starve them to death. well, it might take too long!

re: #227 Jimmah

This Sverigedemokraterna seems to be very much like Britains BNP. Openly racist past, nationalist agenda, polished new 'non-racist' image, shiny reasonable or at least semi-reasonable sounding website. The Islamists would love us to get these guys on board, they really would.

That's my impression too. And it's why I'm trying to warn the lizard army about these "fellow travelers."

re: #224 derkrieger

And by "backfire," I mean that if the average Brit does give the BNP and their like free reign, it's going to result in some very bad times.

I'm not so sure. If the average Brit joins the BNP b/c there is no alternative don't you think the real racists will be overwhelmed by Brits motivated by national survival? Could they also not force the BNP to accept like minded minorities? I'm sure there are many Brit minorities just as fearful of Sharia as there are whites.

The average Brit is repelled by the BNP, mate. Some will vote BNP as a protest, but there will never be a large popular support for them here. Associating with the BNP would have the effect of giving ammo to the Islamists and alienating a great many people who would otherwise be very staunchly on the right side. It's a no-go.

#226 Charles

I agree that the average European citizen has been backed into a corner, by the multicultural policies of their leaders. I don't agree that the correct way to handle this is to jump into the arms of groups like the BNP.

And by "backfire," I mean that if the average Brit does give the BNP and their like free reign, it's going to result in some very bad times.

And things in the UK aren't bad already? Little kids wear kevlar vests to school, Muslim doctors are terrorists, the easily offended are running the show?

If the Brits were hamstrung with their intel methods like we are, those planes would have gone down in the Atlantic. Those doctors would have blown UK citizens to kingdom come.

7/11 was a real backfire and a horror...the times are bad now
In fact, they're so bad that the brain drain of 20-45 y.o. Brits out of SE England is becoming a flood.

Vigilante ethnic Brits are forming walking teams to protect their neighborhoods. You may not defend yourself in a home invasion. If you ask for your property back by putting up a flyer, the police will visit you and tell you to desist.

Why do you think Theodore Dalrymple left? He's already decided it's bad enough.

re: #229 AliAbDab

Nutters like Ahmadinajad may well try to deny the mass killing of Jews by NAZIS, but many others who do not dispute the millions murdered simply question whether it was a deliberate policy originating personally from Hitler. Don't get me wrong, I believe it was Hitlers intention. But that doesnt mean we must label all who question that as "deniers".

Keep posting.

re: #230 Charles

re: #227 Jimmah

This Sverigedemokraterna seems to be very much like Britains BNP. Openly racist past, nationalist agenda, polished new 'non-racist' image, shiny reasonable or at least semi-reasonable sounding website. The Islamists would love us to get these guys on board, they really would.

That's my impression too. And it's why I'm trying to warn the lizard army about these "fellow travelers."

As a resident of Sweden I concur.

Racism.

Ayaan Ali Hirsi clearly stated 'we're all racist'- and when you see what black Africans have done with their white minorities then you wonder why we should not be stopping the thousands who land on our shores from Africa every month.

Perhaps not all are Muhammedans, but most are.

And Europe is not the dumping ground for the failure or African dictators to provide for their people.

[Link: www.dw-world.de...]

I believe modern "racism" is a product of cultural and political pressure that is counter to that of the majority and not what is classically or historically defined as racism based on skin color. When minorities grow to large enough numbers to cease being mere oddities and start wielding group identity political power is when the native/majority population begins to become fearful. The Left classifies this fear as racism when really it is fear of loss of power, identity, culture, etc. That claim should be brought low by the rise of Islam since it is not defined by race so one cannot be racist by opposing Islam. Yet the Left continues to label those opposed to Islamism "racist".
I myself don't care much for the politics of much of black America, Lefties would call this opposition racism. Which I find absurd because there is no basis for the charge. Political opposition is not racism. I'm a huge fan of Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, and Shelby Steele.

re: #231 Jimmah

What is the alternative Jimmah? Labour? Tories? Two sides of the same face.

re: #232 dymphna

I'm aware of all of that. I've posted about the insanity many times.

But if you think the right way to handle this situation is to embrace the BNP, we're going to part ways.

I'm enjoying a very nice Guwurtzraminer, although at the moment I'd prefer a nice port.

Case in point: comment number 229.

What also irks me is that there is no reciprocity at all. None whatsoever. Whether its the Sharptons/Jesse Jacksons/ O.J. Simpson or you name it, they are all openly racist against whites or others and completely shameless about it.

When you see the Mugabes and the Mbeki's and all the others in Africa, there is genocidal hatred and not much else.

There is no reciprocity: Europe, America, Australia is supposed to uphold its laws and human rights legislation and the Africans dictators just spit us in the face in spite of the endless gravy train that goes one way.

I was in Malta this summer. Here is a link about the situation there:
[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm say it's wait-and-see.

The BNP was not in Brussels.

My hope is that they will be gradually eroded by those who have no home in the present political party system in Britain.

We have something similar here, though not so desperate: people are less and less willing to identify with either party as exemplified by our Imperial Congress. But right now, there's no place to go...

Kind of reminds me of strong women who think for themselves and react with horror if anyone calls them "feminists" -- though they would have been such back before the Left co-opted the whole thing and started nuking men.

There are parallels.

Evolution is possible and the past is redeemable. We have to see what happens, meanwhile taking whatever concerted action we can to let people know they are not alone.

Unfortunately the far right is Europe's only hope. Islamization has gone too far to hope for some shade of gray pulling the continent out of its cultural death spiral. Violent unrest and civil war is where this is all headed, I am afraid. There is simply no other way; fight or surrender.

re: #230 Charles

re: #227 Jimmah

This Sverigedemokraterna seems to be very much like Britains BNP. Openly racist past, nationalist agenda, polished new 'non-racist' image, shiny reasonable or at least semi-reasonable sounding website. The Islamists would love us to get these guys on board, they really would.

That's my impression too. And it's why I'm trying to warn the lizard army about these "fellow travelers."

It's a valid warning, alright. I think it's harder for people who aren't native to the countries concerned to get the proper sense of people like the BNP without doing a lot of research. I can see how some might think that these groups are victims of left-originated smears and scare stories, but to anyone who has grown up in Britain and has observed them through the years it's obvious that they are still, despite their new camouflage, deeply racist and a massive liability to anyone who gets on board with them.

Apologies to anyone with a weight problem. I am watching Hattie Jacques on TV. Of course she was great/ grosse. Whatever. I am prone to let rip on the web because I cannot in the real world.

Charles Weston, a British writer, is sure there is a civil war coming to the to Europe.

He says it will be ugly.

Here is Is Civil War Inevitable by 2025?(Part Two)

re: #237 derkrieger

re: #231 Jimmah

What is the alternative Jimmah? Labour? Tories? Two sides of the same face.

Let's first rule out the insane before we choose from among the merely unsatisfactory - I hope that sounds reasonable.

I have noticed the climate of debate in Britain turning in favour of the Islam-aware recently. I'm pretty sure, for example, that there are more documentaries on tv that tell the truth about Islam and associated issues these days than those that apologise or whitewash. We all need to keep pushing on these fronts to the point where mainstream politicians take it on board.

re: #247 Jimmah

It does but can the BBC stranglehold on national dialog be broken? They are obvious apologists for Islam.

re: #248 derkrieger

Not only that, but I think there have been signs of dissent within the BBC for quite a while regarding their political bias. Last week the BBC's Panorama showed the cartoons of blasphemy in the context of an excellent documentary that exposed the hypocrisy and manipulation behind that whole fiasco. I can only assume that someone there was shamed into sporting some nads by the recent output of Channel 4's Dispatches series, which incidentally was defended by the BBC's Newsnight last week with regard to false allegations of distortion in their 'Undercover Mosque' programme.

I have to call it a night now. /Laters.

There is one thing which influences our politicians that we might acknowledge. Especially after 9/11. They may well have realised that the trope about "peaceful majority" of the "religion of peace" etc is not all it sounds but they desperately wanted to avert a racial backlash and the dichotomisation of communities. If that had happenned, it would have been a success for Al Q. Unfortunately, to keep on pushing the same line now risks, as I darkly suggested earlier, the very thing they most wanted to avoid six years ago, some decades hence.

249 Ploome.

You are confusing my position, which I stated was that Hitler certainly directed the policy ( at the Wannasee conference , if I am not mistaken ) with my saying that there are others who question this but who nonetheless acknowledge the reality of the result. The existence of evidence becomes irrelevant if nobody is allowed to raise the issue. As much about the holocaust as about whether all Muslims mean us well. To ask "what is their agenda" for asking such questions is the same as those who say "what is the agenda of LGF" or "what is the agenda of those who oppose making it illegal to criticise religion". Many people have no agenda, but becaise they are simply unaware of the history can ask such questions naiively, about the holocaust or about whether the Lunar landings were faked. These latter people are patently bereft of scientific knowledge but their scepticism doesnt appear to have an agenda. My underlying point is that EVERYTHING is ultimately open to question.

AliAbDab: Direct question time. Are you questioning the Holocaust?

And please note, folks, this poster has also defended the BNP.

There's a very distinct smell in this thread.

re: #252 AliAbDab

Abadab, the Holocaust is FACT. Don't be such a dumbass, when this is probably the most recorded and documented event in human history.

re: #252 AliAbDab

You ever do any ornithology? You seem to remind me of a particular species of shitbird.

re: #252 AliAbDab

My underlying point is that EVERYTHING is ultimately open to question. - AliAbDab

What are you a twoofer or something?

I am woefully ignorant about the various European parties mentioned and will look into them more tomorrow. I do, however, know one thing damn well - the Holocaust happened - we know it happened.

I am not going to offer proof or argue or debate this issue or in any way give such people an opportunity to even think I'd entertain a notion of doing so.

I'm not saying there should be a law about this - they can say what they want. That doesn't give them a leg to stand on. We all know what happened.

Also, I do question the motives of people who say they are ignorant of this fact. Yes, I do. Especially if they are Muslims. Yes, I do indeed question their motives. Call me cynical.

I've read over the posts by "AliAbDab" again, and decided I don't want this person posting at my site.

And the attitude expressed in his posts should be a warning to those of you who think you can make alliances with the Vlaams Belang or the BNP, without being hopelessly compromised.

What country is he posting from Charles?

Britain.

There is no reason to have reservations about Filip Dewinter, or to refer to the Vlaams Belang as an "ultra-nationalist party". The party is simply representing the wishes of the Flemish (Dutch) people to be separate from the French. Belgium is like a mini-EU, and if Belgium cannot work (they have had no government for 5 months now), neither will the EU. The point is, Filip and the Vlaams Belang are frmly in our side, and it's time to close ranks against the Islamic evil, and time to stop being defensive about who our own people are.

re: #264 Cincinnatus

You are quite mistaken. Paul Belien is a part of the VB and I believe him to be a decent man, from all that I have read. But over the years I have observed evil coming from Dewinter and his faction of the VB. For example: (1) The white supremacism that was openly espoused by Dewinter and the Vlaams Blok cannot be glossed-over by saying 'this is a the history of our party, our tradition, and it is in the past. We are now very pro-Israel and anti-Islam.' In the 1990's Dewinter talked about how Europe is for the whites and Flanders for the ethnically Flemish, and other such racially hierarchical theories. (2) His support for Juerg Haider, open Nazi sympathizer and one of the leaders of the Austrian Freedom Party. (3) His support for the racist, antisemitic politician Le Pen. Not only would it be wrong to join ranks with this group, it would ultimately ruin mainstream support for whatever decent position the coalition takes. In short, if the anti-Islamization movement is to gain legitimacy in the population, it would be wise to part with Dewinter.

re: #265 Yank in the EU

Well, have no special knowledge about Filip, but as for the Vlaams Belang in general I see no harm in being pro-Dutch and pro-European. (I am Dutch myself) If we're going to fight the scourge of Islam, a bit of pride in one's own heritage does not hurt. Specifically, there is nothing wrong with saying "Flanders for the Flemish" -- it is their homeland, after all! People who want to deny the Flemish their homeland will then turn around and say that the Palestinians do deserve to have one. As Fjordman says, why are Europeans the only people in the world who do not deserve a homeland, in the eyes of so many people? This kind of thinking must be rejected. The Vlaams Belang are entitled to their patriotic stance, and we should be ready to embrace them as friends and allies.

Neo Nazis and their ilk are to anti-dhimmis what isolationism is to Ron Paul. They are an unfortunate, unnecessary component that is part of a noble cause, but twists it in their own way and ends up making all anti-dhimmis look bad, providing ammo for Vaara and other foul smelling Caliphores to scream "LGF IS RAAAAAACIST!". Look at them now;
[Link: lgfwatch.blogspot.com...]

You should read some of the bile these losers write about you, Charles. A lot of their posts almost sound like childish tantrums. You'll notice a lot of LGF Stalk's keywords center on you (71, versus around 2-8 for the rest);
[Link: lgfwatch.blogspot.com...]

Good on you for keeping the house clean. We don't serve your Neo Nazi, Stormfronter kind here, AliAbDab.

IMHO, people need to be wary of using national identity as a tool of fighting Islamism.

Nationalism, in terms of the US and Israel who have a deep love of the country and are willing to do anything to defend it is different from the strain that is the ideology of parties like the BNP.

Their nationalism depends on an enemy within. The country was strong but was polluted by that 'certain type'. Get rid of that certain type and the country will be great again.

A very, very dangerous road to go down on.

re: #144 ploome hineni

Don't you read other peoples comments?

You might find the links they provide useful even if the said commenter don't use preview all the time!

Think the danish PM show us the right kind of spirit in his defence of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and the most fundamental human right: Freedom of speech.
Here is some quotes from his latest speech in Berlin:
“.....As you all know, in March this year Muslim countries tabled a resolution in the UN Human Rights Council, aiming at limiting free speech in order to protect religion.
Regrettably, this resolution was adopted by a majority.
So now is the time to stand up for our basic liberal principles.
Through the United Nations we must combat any resolution that attempts to limit freedom of expression. We must make it crystal clear that free speech includes the right to critical debate about religion, any religion. “
..............
“....And, we must not hesitate to stand together in the protection of courageous fighters for free speech, like our Dutch liberal colleague, Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She stands as one of the most shining bearers of that very spirit of liberty which first emerged in Europe in our Age of Enlightenment. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a symbol of the free speech we all claim to defend. Any free society and democracy has an obligation to guarantee her right to speak out freely and to ensure her personal safety.....”
Source:
[Link: www.venstre.dk...]

re: #266 Cincinnatus

Yes, I think I very much understand what you are saying. The basic ideas of affirming Europe's culture and stemming the control of radical Islam can hardly be said to be racist and ought not be treated with scorn. Therefore, when you do examine the unsavory aspects of a character like Dewinter it becomes all the more frustrating. This is why I say there has to be a clean break with the Nazi sympather, white supremacist element. These type of things will always damage the larger party. Here's an example. Dewinter expressed support for NPD politicians from Germany in a Flemish newspaper several years ago. Well, the NPD by no exaggeration has expressed sympathy with the Nazis. A second example: upthread someone posted a link to an interview in which Dewinter affirmed that the VB is indeed the same party that united with Nazi Germany in WWII. Their motto was 'Antwerp is Ours. Jews get out' and the Vlaams Blok'

(comment got cut off somehow)

..."Eigen folk eerst" seems to echo the ethnic element in the previous National Front. He also affirmed that the VB is the same party as the one that collaborated with Nazi Germany and he seemed to apologize for the support for Hitler by saying that they thought it was in their own best interesting and for secession, while most were not supporters of the Nazis' policies. The point is not that they are pro-Israel today, but that it would be error in many ways, even for people who find what I mentioned disgusting, to try to build a foundation for a decent party upon such figures.