Classic al-Reuters.

If no Churches are allowed in Saudi, no Mosques should be allowed in Italy seems fair to me...

Actions speak louder than words.

Let the seething begin!

European Dhimmitude means a radical mosque on every corner just like MickieD's. Tolerance, and political correctness is an elixir that rivals even cyanide, and arsenic.

I'm still thinking that he meant 'silent majority' but the al Rueters folks didn't catch it.

But if he meant to say that it is a silent minority, I have to agree with his assessment.

Of course, the writer meant to say silent majority. This seems to show that the Reuters editors don't bother to read the articles that they are supposed to be editing.

Maybe they should divide the Vatican.

There may be a silent majority that does not agree with the jihadists' methods, but it would be certainly a minority that does not agree with their goals.

...Freudian slip is showing.

Freudian slip, my ass. What's showing is their panties - with their heads in them.

Roto-Reuters - For easier flushing.

Dialog = Convert or die.

The fact that Muslims can build mosques in Europe while many Islamic states limit or ban church building cannot be ignored, he said. "In a dialogue among believers, it is fundamental to say what is good for one is good for the other," he said.

Only if they fundamentally believe in the same basic truth. There is no such common ground in Islam.

the 'silent' minority used to be very loud. But then they had their tongues cut out. Or heads chopped off.

Tauran hinted Benedict might use a major inter-faith meeting in Naples on Sunday to respond to the appeal. "The pope will be there at the start and will certainly say something," he told La Croix without elaborating.

I'm not expecting much.

re: #13 kingronjo

Right. "Silent" as in dead.

I'm shocked Reuters has a religion writer

Still says silent minority. Come on you 4 Reuters guys - monitor.

re: #6 EC Marm

I'm still thinking that he meant 'silent majority' but the al Rueters folks didn't catch it.

But if he meant to say that it is a silent minority, I have to agree with his assessment.

Make no mistake! he meant what he wrote!

Everyone seems to forget that when Pope John Paul II was in Israel, um, sorry, my bad, The Holy Land, they had an interfaith meeting between The Pope, Israel's Chief Rabbis and the Mufti of Jerusalem, that was to be widely covered in the MSM........The Mufti never showed.

And that's why it wasn't covered.

It was unprecedented because Islam has no central authority to speak for all believers, especially not the silent minority that does not agree with radicals whose preaching of jihad and rejection of other faiths often dominates the headlines.

A screen shot would be good for this one.

re: #13 kingronjo

In Islam you have to hold your tongue to keep your head.

re: #17 jamgarr

Has Roto-Reuters tanked yet?

/my plunger is my BullshitMeter.

re: #14 Killgore Trout

I'm not expecting much.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. At 80 some years of age, his time to have any effect on the outcome or issue any warnings to 'the flock' is drawing to a close.

Even if the group represented a "silent majority," what about the crazy jihadi "minority" which seems to have the most impact, and which the "silent majority" is afraid to confront. The "silent majority" should be confronting the "loud minority" before it seeks dialogue with others.

re: #20 Ben Hur

Everyone seems to forget that when Pope John Paul II was in Israel, um, sorry, my bad, The Holy Land, they had an interfaith meeting between The Pope, Israel's Chief Rabbis and the Mufti of Jerusalem, that was to be widely covered in the MSM........The Mufti never showed.

And that's why it wasn't covered.

Does that make them the Mus-Stream Media?

It was unprecedented because Islam has no central authority to speak for all believers, especially not the silent minority that does not agree with radicals whose preaching of jihad and rejection of other faiths often dominates the headlines.

Apparently this fellow knows more than the Muslims polled.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Debate with Muslims, surely you jest! Not bloody likely; you cannot reason with the unreasonable. There's only one way to deal with them and I think that we all know what that way is......

Bravo for showing some spine. Louder and clearer, please. Not much time to lose.

This is pretty blunt language for an official, diplomatic response:

The fact that Muslims can build mosques in Europe while many Islamic states limit or ban church building cannot be ignored, he said. "In a dialogue among believers, it is fundamental to say what is good for one is good for the other," he said.

Translation: If you want to talk to us about mutual respect, then put up or shut up, hypocrites.

re: #25 insanity police

Or was he saying the non-jihadis are the minority?

The next issue will be who goes to who.

Will the Muslims be summoned to the Vatican like commoners?

Or will the Pope prostrate himself before the Muslims.

finally reuters gets something right and it turns out to be accidental

What's theirs' is theirs' and what's ours is theirs.

OMG that is so frakking priceless!
What's the countdown to uncommented correction to "silent majority"?
5...
4...
3...

"Silent minority?" Isn't the MSM position that the jihadists and Islamists who support them are a tiny minority that's cruelly slandered a religion of peace and the overwhelming majority of belevolent, beneficent Muslims?

At some point, Americans are going to read the Islamic scriptures. They're going to familiarize themselves with the history of militant Islam. They're going to look into the historical treatment of non-Muslims in states ruled by Muslims. And then the jig will be up for a whole lot of "journalists."

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Tauran hinted Benedict might use a major inter-faith meeting in Naples on Sunday to respond to the appeal. "The pope will be there at the start and will certainly say something," he told La Croix without elaborating.

I'm not expecting much.

I don't know about that Killgore. I expect more from Benedict than I saw from John Paul.

John Paul was a wonderful human being that saw much tragedy during WWII and did his best to fight it. Benedict, on the other hand, is an essentially good human being that as a very young man (a child really) was forced to become part of the evil one's machinery in WWII. I think that experience gave him a knowledge that John Paul never did.

I have high hopes of Benedict so far.
Let's just eliminate the "apologies to all offended" when speaking the truth about Islam.

Reuters: Majority of Muslims agree with radicals who preach jihad.

This puts Reuters in the odd position of covering up their own story.

Re: #34 Peacekeepr

Gee-zus. Sounds like the Left in America. I wonder if our Leftists will give credit where credit is due for their ideas.

Actually I thought this was the best part of it.

Pope Benedict is a key figure because his Regensburg speech last year implying Islam was violent and irrational sparked bloody protests in the Muslim world

What better way to show that you are not violent or irrational than BLOODY PROTESTS?

I'm sure a correction will be issued.

Front page in bold.

Not like when they really F*ck up.

re: #20 Ben Hur

Everyone seems to forget that when Pope John Paul II was in Israel, um, sorry, my bad, The Holy Land,

I hope the Israeli folks don't take that personally. I mean what parent tells their children that they're taking them to Orlando, Florida?

Or will the Pope prostrate himself before the Muslims.

Not this one. I'll eat crow if he does. Properly cooked with a side order of mashed potatoes and a dark red wine to wash it down.

OT
I'm back! Got my PC from the repair shop this afternoon, reinstalled DSL and I'm up and running. Have lots more software to install, but at least I'm ALIVE!

Feels good.

OT

Some people in South America still remember the real Che:

Venezuelans shatter Che monument backed by Chavez

Jesus Espinoza, a municipal mayor in the mountain state of Merida, said "on Wednesday night (a group) from outside of the municipality inconsiderately destroyed the monument to Che Guevara."

Local media reported that a group identifying itself as the Patriotic Command of the Plateau took responsibility for destroying the 8-foot-(2.4 meters-) tall glass monument inscribed with a message to honor the Argentine-born icon of Cuba's 1959 revolution.

"We do not want a monument to Che, he is not an example for our children," the group said in a note left at the scene of the monument shattered by six gunshots, according to the El Universal newspaper.

Atleast he admitted it was a minority.

The real question is: how small a minority is it?

Also: Hey everyone, been a big fan of lgf for several months, finally had the chance to register.

Many people were wondering about your fate, NoSub. Good to see you back.
;)

re: #44 NoSubmission

I MISSED YOU, SISTAH!

Re: #44 NoSubmission

Hey, hey! Welcome Back. A few of the Lizardoids were asking about you this morning.

re: #44 NoSubmission

OT
I'm back! Got my PC from the repair shop this afternoon, reinstalled DSL and I'm up and running. Have lots more software to install, but at least I'm ALIVE!

Feels good.

Welcome back!

There are 3 computers in this house.

Still says "minority" over at Reuters. Oh, it's Friday. They're all at mosque.

re: #42 Ben Hur

There will an apology followed by a contribution to the local Hezbollah recruitment office. After an unsuccessful re-education camp for all Reuters writers, it will be decided that all Reuters stories will be first submitted to a Muslim committee, to be paid by Reuters.

I don't see anything positive coming out of this at all. I'm still waiting to hear what these people say to the Jews, as there's supposedly a letter to the Jewish community due RSN?

Could someone please confirm?

irene, writermom and mrandmrssmith,

Thanks! Looking forward to catching up with everything. I can't live without LGF!

This calls for a screeny. It's still there atm, but my bet is a correction soon.

re: #43 EC Marm

I was referring to the MSM.

Whenever they report on anything having to do with religion in Israel, or when the Pope visited, they never say "The Pope was in ISrael today".....it's always, "The Holy Land". Which it is, for Jews and Christians. Never before Arafat has that title been given to Israel - except in the whole "The world is Islamic Holy Land" type of thing.

They like to erase us once in a while.

I'm sure another example will pop up in the future.

What the Vatican did by saying that they want to "discuss curbs on building churches in the Islamic world" is really tossing the ball back in their court. Actually I think that it is brilliant. The last Pope I am afraid would have been more accommodating.
Whether moderate Muslims are a minority or a majority ,how would the guy know if they are silent?

re: #44 NoSubmission

I'm sorry that was garbled. Did you say something?

re: #44 NoSubmission

AND YOU LOOK FANTASTIC!

your Freudian slip is showing

Charles, this is what makes LGF great.

Re: #56 Ben hur

Yeah. When will al-Reuters and the NY Times start calling Israel "Palestine?"

re: #60 me

your Freudian slip is showing

Charles, this is what makes LGF great.

and wouldn't that make a fantAstiC ? rotating title?

your Freudian slip is showing

What does the Vatican think about Aloha Snackbar, Resort to Violence?

re: #50 Alouette

I'm awash in wires and cd's. Total chaos but getting through it. AND I've got lots to work on with my book. Have a few agents waiting to see my proposal. So I've got my work cut out for me. :)

Muslim commander to Christian commander-convert or die
Christian commander to Muslim commander-NUTS!

re: #44 NoSubmission

OT
I'm back! Got my PC from the repair shop this afternoon, reinstalled DSL and I'm up and running. Have lots more software to install, but at least I'm ALIVE!

Feels good.

Withdrawal symptoms abating? :)

re: #61 MrAndMrsSmith

I'm sure they already do.

Right up the final printing copy.

It's a threat to point out the obvious fact that the Islamists refuse to allow the construction of churches in Muslim lands, or restrict how non-Muslims can practice their religion in Muslim-dominated countries.

The Church is absolutely right to confront the Islamists on these issues.

Hmmmm....

The Reuters meter seems stuck at 4. I predict we'll see that changing soon.

I always say that if Mohammedans really want Peace, we can have peace. As soon as they allow the cornerstone to the first synagogue to be laid next to the First baptist Church of Mecca, we can consider them a Religion of Peace.

Until then, Mosques should not be allowed in civilized lands.

re: #55 Thanos

I've printed a PDF of it, just in case.

re: #11 insanity police

Dialog = Convert or die.

How about "Die-a-log" for short?

re: #44 NoSubmission

I missed ya! Welcome back!

OT:

Mexican cartels' turf war could spill over the border

HOUSTON — Drug-gang violence that plagues Mexico is worsening and could spill into the United States, according to a new report by a consultant on Gov. Rick Perry's Texas Border Security Council.

especially not the silent minority that does not agree with radicals

Is Tom Heneghan an LGFer?

re: #44 NoSubmission,

Welcome back.

re: #58 Peacekeeper

re: #44 NoSubmission

I'm sorry that was garbled. Did you say something?

Argh! UPS is knocking, dogs are barking like mad and my doorknob just fall off. What's going on these days?

re: #59 Ben Hur

re: #44 NoSubmission

AND YOU LOOK FANTASTIC!

So do you, ben hur. How's little BH?

re: #71 pimp_conservative

Too much LGF is making me blind (heh).

I thought that said: I have an IDF of it.

re: #77 NoSubmission

Well, at least it wasn't your door knocker that fell off...

I love the vatican's response. Pretty much the nice way to say "Go piss up a rope."

re: #66 Catttt
I felt lost. Walking around without the latest news. Horrid feeling.

re: #73 tfc3rid
Thanks! Feels good to be back.

and you too, Iron Fist. I missed all of you.

re: #77 NoSubmission

re: #58 Peacekeeper

re: #44 NoSubmission

I'm sorry that was garbled. Did you say something?

Argh! UPS is knocking, dogs are barking like mad and my doorknob just fall off. What's going on these days?

Heh. You said knocking UPS.

re: #84 Peacekeeper

Who is knocked up?

register (open) !

no trolls!

re: #64 NoSubmission

hooooray, you're back

re: #85 mrsoc

Hmm. What gives with that weird site?

re: #24 EC Marm

So far the initial response has been a bit better than I expected. I'll be more than happy to be surprised by decent response from Benedict.

I'm sure this had to have been posted already:

Glass Monument to Che in Venezuela Shot

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - A glass monument to revolutionary icon Ernesto "Che" Guevara was shot up and destroyed less than two weeks after it was unveiled by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's government.

Images of the 8-foot-tall glass plate bearing Guevara's image, now toppled and shattered, were shown Friday on state television, which said the entire country "repudiated" the vandalism.

OT:
Some good news from Iraq

Blackanthem

Coalition forces captured three wanted individuals and detained an additional 12 suspected terrorists Thursday during operations targeting al-Qaeda networks throughout Iraq.

Jawa

BAQOUBA, Iraq – Soldiers from Company D, 1-12 Combined Arms Battalion, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division, acting on a tip, discovered two houses used as make-shift prisons and released five local citizens who were held for ransom in the village of Buhriz in Baqouba, Iraq, Oct. 16.

A leader from a local Concerned Local Citizens group provided tips leading Soldiers to conduct the search operation, which also netted two weapons caches, and led to the detaining of six Iraqi men, acting as guards for the prisons, in addition to the discovery and release of five hostages.

:cut to the band Saxon, belting out "Crusader"

Kidding aside, it's nice to see the Church hasn't forgotten history, at least. If only all westerners were so concerned with preserving their culture.

re: #77 NoSubmission

What's going on these days?

Could your house be haunted by....Ghosts?

re: #89 WriterMom

re: #85 mrsoc

Hmm. What gives with that weird site?

I don't know actually. It was certainly offensive to me. Catholic bashing has become a regular olympic sport these days.

silent minority

i'm thinking this is one of those "fake but accurate" news thingies....
%-)

re: #87 me

register (open) !

no trolls!

Again? Time to bust out the shiny keys to jingle and get the cluebat ready.

/jingle jingle jingle

Here trolly, here boy

re: #88 nyc redneck
Finally! Feels like forever. This time, NO ONE is going to use my computer... Ever..

Reuters

re: #57 opnion

What the Vatican did by saying that they want to "discuss curbs on building churches in the Islamic world" is really tossing the ball back in their court. Actually I think that it is brilliant. The last Pope I am afraid would have been more accommodating.

The last Pope, being Polish, was concerned with freeing Poland and the fall of the Soviet Empire. Which he, along with President Ronald Reagan and PM Margaret Thacher succeeded in accomplishing. I think this Pope has islam in his cross hairs. But I'm sometimes irrationally exuberant, so we'll see.

Re: #89 WriterMom

After giving it the quick once over, it sounds a lot like the nutty friends I used to have that blajmed everything int he world on the Joos and the Catholics. Best to simply ignore the ignorant.

re: #91 NoSubmission

I'm sure this had to have been posted already:

Yup, but nothing bad about repeating good news

re: #85 mrsoc

I'm in agreement. That's offensive.

I'm not Catholic, but I am sick to death of the anti-papist nonsense.

re: #94 Irene NYC

Could your house be haunted by....Ghosts?

Oh no. Please, not here. Just an old building with a sticky door.
I did have a ghost years ago. Rather disconcerting it was.

re: #97 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #87 me

register (open) !

no trolls!

Again? Time to bust out the shiny keys to jingle and get the cluebat ready.

/jingle jingle jingle

Here trolly, here boy

since this was my 3rd ID (the others were too long!) i'm afraid Charlesl might consider me a troll, too.

Good thing I know I'm not.

OT: I was put on hold today and Christmas music was playing.

I still haven't put away my shorts and tanktops.

re: #95 mrsoc

It's pretty awful actually.

re: #103 Dianna

Thanks. Sometimes I think I'm getting too sensitive but heck, it happens every day. That's what Catholics get for not responding in kind I suppose.

re: #104 NoSubmission

Well, you know NoSub, Halloween is just around the corner.
;)

Now I'm looking forward to going back out there with my camera and getting some work done. It's been so long.

I am dinging that sucker down.

OT

Israeli Lawmakers Sign Petition Against Division of Jerusalem

Sixty-one of 120 Israeli parliamentarians have signed a petition opposing the division of Jerusalem. The petitioners include two Cabinet ministers from the ruling Kadima party of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Another Kadima minister, Shaul Mofaz, plans to follow suit.

Mofaz tells Israel Radio that Jerusalem is not negotiable, especially at a time when the Palestinians have failed to crack down on terrorism. He says Jerusalem is the eternal and undivided capital of the State of Israel.

The petitioners are trying to tie the hands of Mr. Olmert, who says he is prepared to divide Jerusalem as part of a peace deal with the Palestinians. Jerusalem and other thorny issues have prevented formulation of a joint document on Palestinian statehood to be presented at an international conference in the United States this year.

Shaul Mofaz is an idiot.

Boombaya, My Lord.

Boombaya!

re: #99 BuddyG

Reuters

Interesting, but WTF?

I am so groovin..I have posted this station before, but I just love it.

re: #108 mrsoc

It's oddly acceptable, and has been for a very long time, to bash Catholics and Catholicism. The US inherited a strain of anti-papism from the English, Scots, and some Germans; generally, it's latent, but it bursts out pretty frequently.

Somewhat OT. But not entirely, I think:

As the clock ticks toward the end of Bush's time in office, Rice fears history's impending verdict. And so she seeks a singular achievement. Like her failed predecessors, she has turned to Israel. Like so many others before her, Rice hopes to force Israel to make concessions that will lead to war only after she is safely ensconced at Stanford University.

In her race to a signing ceremony, Rice ignores the fact that through her actions she is destroying America's international credibility. Her genuflection to the Palestinians and the Arab world as a whole on the one hand and her open hostility and moral condemnation of Israel on the other destroy US credibility twice. First, by ignoring all of Bush's previous demands for the Arabs and the Palestinians to abjure terror and accept the Jewish state's right to exist, Rice is making clear that countries will pay no price for supporting terror and jihad. Second, by running roughshod over Israel, Rice shows that there is no advantage to be had by being a loyal ally of America.

Then there is Olmert. When not engaged in surrendering Hebron and Jerusalem to Hamas, Olmert faces his police investigators. As the subject of three separate official criminal probes, Olmert's desire to divert attention away from the fact that he is unfit for office is so great that he is willing to give up Israel's right to defensible borders and to its capital city.

Like the Democrats in Congress, Yishai and Lieberman demonstrate the deleterious consequences of empty talk. For their part, Rice and Olmert show us how reckless talk born of personal arrogance can sink the ship of state. Both instances show us the deadly consequences of misused rhetoric. What will it take for these petty politicians to understand this?

That's from Carolyn Glick in Jerusalem Post of today. Here spine is most urgently needed, right now.

re: #115 Gus Bailey

Pssss. "Freudian Slip".

re: #85 mrsoc

I think that was a winger. I've been biding my time waiting for another comment like that one with an additional twist - the part where he/she buries the hook. So far - nada.

re: #103 Dianna

I followed their "helpful links", they seem to be mostly evangelicals and Baptists. Very odd.

Wouldn't it be great if, everytime a group of muslims wanted to build something no one would work on it except muslims?
The famous Blue Mosque was built by Byzantinian engineers.
More than 200 years later Turkish "architects" still could not calculate the lateral pressure of curves.*
(from page 155 of Robert Spencer's Religion of Peace? book.)
If there were no bought dhimmis' these guys would fall apart, and fast.
Remember the recent camel dying problem?
The first thing camel dealers said was, "Get some foreigner, some animal expert in here to find out what's killing all our camels!"
Real isolation of muslims would decimate them.....no, more than decimate them quickly.

re: #33 bulwrk

finally reuters gets something right and it turns out to be accidental

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while.

Hand them a broken clock and they could go for a trifecta!

re: #119 WriterMom

Yup ;-)

"real theological debate with them was difficult as they saw the Koran as the literal word of God and would not discuss it in depth."

Just out of curiosity: I wonder if this means Rome cannot have a "real theological debate" with Christians who consider the bible to be literally interpreted as opposed to being interpreted allegorically?

re: #118 bunuel

Somewhat OT. But not entirely, I think:

As the clock ticks toward the end of Bush's time in office, Rice fears history's impending verdict. And so she seeks a singular achievement. Like her failed predecessors, she has turned to Israel. Like so many others before her, Rice hopes to force Israel to make concessions that will lead to war only after she is safely ensconced at Stanford University.

In her race to a signing ceremony, Rice ignores the fact that through her actions she is destroying America's international credibility. Her genuflection to the Palestinians and the Arab world as a whole on the one hand and her open hostility and moral condemnation of Israel on the other destroy US credibility twice. First, by ignoring all of Bush's previous demands for the Arabs and the Palestinians to abjure terror and accept the Jewish state's right to exist, Rice is making clear that countries will pay no price for supporting terror and jihad. Second, by running roughshod over Israel, Rice shows that there is no advantage to be had by being a loyal ally of America.

Then there is Olmert. When not engaged in surrendering Hebron and Jerusalem to Hamas, Olmert faces his police investigators. As the subject of three separate official criminal probes, Olmert's desire to divert attention away from the fact that he is unfit for office is so great that he is willing to give up Israel's right to defensible borders and to its capital city.

Like the Democrats in Congress, Yishai and Lieberman demonstrate the deleterious consequences of empty talk. For their part, Rice and Olmert show us how reckless talk born of personal arrogance can sink the ship of state. Both instances show us the deadly consequences of misused rhetoric. What will it take for these petty politicians to understand this?

That's from Carolyn Glick in Jerusalem Post of today. Here spine is most urgently needed, right now.

Excellent analysis

re: #7 EE

Of course, the writer meant to say silent majority. This seems to show that the Reuters editors don't bother to read the articles that they are supposed to be editing.

Maybe the editor let one slip on purpose. Who knows?
Cartoon riots, murder threats against writers, Islamist bomb plots. . .some people are noticing.

re: #108 mrsoc

You're not too sensitive. This "anti-Papist" crap is just so old. Having been lectured by my ever-enlightened former sister-in-law about how much better a person the Dalai Lama was than the Pope, I know what you're talking about.

She made those comments to me after having attended some weekend-long Dalai Lama meeting at UCLA. I thought, "Gosh, if this is what you're thinking after listening to the Dalai Lama for 3 days, imagine what you'd be like after a lifetime!"

Actually, all these people are just bitter. Period. The Dalai Lama is a fine soul. It's we people are just fallible. And it's fine to speak up about it.

A link to www. the greatwhore dot com is okay?

re: #117 Dianna

IIRC, Mel Gibson's father belong to a Catholic sect that believes the anti-Christ will be a Pope.

re: #116 WriterMom

Ya like groovin' ? Check this out.

re: #117 Dianna

But at least there's a refreshing lack of seething.

re: #121 Killgore Trout

I suspect it's one of the splinter Baptist sects; I can't keep up with the splitting.

The only group that has disputes and splits with more enthusiasm that the evangelical churches is the Trotskyite left!

re: #120 Cap'n DOC

re: #85 mrsoc

I think that was a winger. I've been biding my time waiting for another comment like that one with an additional twist - the part where he/she buries the hook. So far - nada.

We had a "pope as prostitute" not too long ago. I stopped replying to that poster just to avoid going ballistic on him. He's a long time poster too-but you have to draw a line somewhere. What do you mean by a "winger" ? Is that like an invitation to an argument?

re: #119 WriterMom

Ahhh, duh.

Thanks.

Again, LGF are a patient lot with hatchlings.

re: #84 Peacekeeper

re: #77 NoSubmission

re: #58 Peacekeeper

re: #44 NoSubmission
I'm sorry that was garbled. Did you say something?

Argh! UPS is knocking, dogs are barking like mad and my doorknob just fall off. What's going on these days?

Heh. You said knocking UPS.

Who's that knocking - at my door.......?
Who's that knocking - at my door.......?
Who's that knocking - at my door......?
Cried the fair young maiden.

re: #130 Killgore Trout

IIRC, Mel Gibson's father belong to a Catholic sect that believes the anti-Christ will be a Pope.

And Mel believes his own wife is going to hell. Along with all of his other anti-Semitic statements. The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.

OT

my socks are itchy

I blame allah

re: #131 BuddyG

Oooh...I'm liking that!

ot

my socks are itchy

I blame bush

Just opened the box from UPS and it appears my old friend at Oxford University Press sent me some goodies:

Some academic titles, Music in Egypt, Music in Bulgaria, Hasidic Tales from the Holocaust [which I already have..], The Oxford Dictionary of Islam by John Terror Apologist Esposito [certainly a joke!], A Time for Choosing: The Rise of Modern American Conservatism, Rumi: The Masnavi - Book Two, and four volumes of The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern Islamic World..

and a very nice window sticker of a yellow ribbon that says 'Support Our Troops'! That's going right in my front window. That'll show the MoveOn morons up the street! LOL

ot

bush socks itchy allah? = ?

Come on Miguel, I see you lurking, come on out and say something!

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

In June 2002, a Kuwaiti-born cleric named Suleiman Abu Ghaith posted a statement on the Internet that "al-Qaeda has the right to kill four million Americans" in retaliation for U.S. attacks against Muslims. And in May 2003, at the same time Saudi operatives of al-Qaeda were trying to buy three Russian nuclear bombs, a cleric named Nasir al-Fahd issued a fatwa titled, "A Treatise on the Legal Status of Using Weapons of Mass Destruction Against Infidels." Interrogations of al-Qaeda operatives confirmed that the planning was serious. Al-Qaeda didn't yet have the materials for a WMD attack, but it wanted them.

Most chilling of all was Zawahiri's decision in March 2003 to cancel a cyanide attack in the New York subway system. He told the plotters to stand down because "we have something better in mind." What did that mean? More than four years later, we still don't know.

Good article

re: #130 Killgore Trout

I don't remember, and I don't want to look around for it. I know the sect you mention was declared schismatic when they rejected Vatican II, but I don't remember if that was the one Gibson's father was a part of, or if that's the one in France.

re: #125 njartist

"real theological debate with them was difficult as they saw the Koran as the literal word of God and would not discuss it in depth."

Just out of curiosity: I wonder if this means Rome cannot have a "real theological debate" with Christians who consider the bible to be literally interpreted as opposed to being interpreted allegorically?

There's a fairly substantial difference between the bible and the koran. I don't ever recall hearing that the literal interpretation of the bible precluded discussion. I know a number of evangelicals of various denominations and the idea is that we are Christians first, then we discuss the details. (Although I had a friend once who told me with a straight face that she would miss me in heaven as all Catholics go to hell.)

As a Catholic, I'm glad the Church "gets it."

"Onay Elmay Ibsongay Alktay"

Holy See Defends Right to Convert

WARSAW, Poland, OCT. 18, 2007 (Zenit.org").- Religious freedom includes the right to change religion, the Holy See affirms.

On Sept. 26, Monsignor Frontiero, speaking on the theme of religious liberty, said: "The Holy See reiterates its firm conviction that the dignity of the person and the very nature of the quest for God require that all people should be free from every constraint in the area of religion."

"[T]he Holy See stresses that the right to religious freedom ought to be part of the juridical order and recognized as a civil right," the monsignor continued.

"Unfortunately," he added, "however, such a vision of relations between states and religious organizations seems not always to be shared by all and the right to religious freedom is, as we have seen, being violated, 'even to the point that imparting catechesis, having it imparted, and receiving it become punishable offenses. Monsignor Frontiero explained: "In his recent address to the Executive Committee of the Centrist Democratic International, Pope Benedict XVI recalled that the right to religious liberty is fundamental, irrepressible, inalienable and inviolable.

re: #133 Dianna

The Klan was notoriously anti-Catholic at one time. Must be a Baptist thing.

so, "christians would have to discuss curbs on building churches in the islamic world" while mosques are springing up like toad stools every where in the free world. how abt. they build as many as we build.

re: #140 WriterMom

Here's another. And don't be shy, send me some too !

Oh how disappointed will the 50 billion muslims be when they learn that the koran is nothing more than the blatherings and re-interpretations of stories mo got after his nomad travels in the land filled with Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians.

50 billion muslims = tons of disappointment

re: #148 formercorpsman

Well said and thank you for your service.

I'm actually on my way to Adoration, so I'll say a prayer of forgiveness for that filth that was spewed.

Have a good weekend lizards!

/re-lurk

re: #134 mrsoc

I can't remember the name of the movie now - it escapes me. An angel who lost his wings and chauffeurs an old man around in his limo. Birds shit on the car - in passing. Feathered version of a Troll.

Wow, thanks Charles.

Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.

While Pope Benedict apologized for the "hurt" this caused and said they were not his opinions (a semantically meaningless statement as they were technically someone else's opinion), HE NEVER repudiated the statement, NEVER withdrew it, and NEVER said it was untrue.

Understand that when dealing with a intellect/diplomat such as Benedict, what is NOT said is often at least as meaningful as what IS said ... and also understand that NO ONE who understands Benedict would say he used that quote recklessly or without full appreciation of what it would incite.

re: #154 BuddyG

Me? Shy. LOL. Ya gotta be a hatchling.

re: #152 Killgore Trout

Are you aligning Baptists with the Klan?

re: #158 Cap'n DOC

re: #134 mrsoc

I can't remember the name of the movie now - it escapes me. An angel who lost his wings and chauffeurs an old man around in his limo. Birds shit on the car - in passing. Feathered version of a Troll.

That is so cool. I will remember that and no doubt use it. Thanks.

re: #152 Killgore Trout

Not necessarily, but the Baptists used to be particularly vocal and virulent about it.

re: #162 mama winger

Mama, I did not take it that way at all.

We all have some shitheads in our flocks.

Shabbat Shalom Lizardia.

Catholic bashing on lgf? How ridiculous.

re: #159 mrsoc

Like Icarus, I think this one had his feathers waxed.

Adios folks.

re: #162 mama winger

Not intentionally, I don't think.

Baptist are not monolithic, and there are many, many sects that have split off from other splits, and they all call themselves Baptist.

re: #164 Dianna

re: #152 Killgore Trout

Not necessarily, but the Baptists used to be particularly vocal and virulent about it.

I was raised Baptist. I recall some murmurings, not so quietly, about how the Roman church was portrayed in the Book of the Revelation, and not in a positive way. I believe my church was wrong about that. I believe we were taught erroneously. It is quite clear to me that it is the muslim faith, not the Roman one.

re: #169 formercorpsman

On the flip-side.

re: #161 WriterMom

Not a hatchlin'
Just a once-in-a-while-when-my-boss-ain't-lookin' postin' kinda lizard.

re: #164 Dianna

Lapsed Catholic here.

I would suggest that perhaps correlation and cause and effect are muddled in this case. Perhaps the statement that the KKK were predominantly Baptist, certainly does not imply the converse (that Baptists are predominantly Klansmen).

One of the things the Pope should ask, is for Islam to explain the purpose of the Return of "Issa" or Jesus shortly after the Mahdi returns. What exactly is his mission on earth after coming back to life?

don't think they can weasel out of that one, I mean, Jesus breaking crosses and killing all christians who refuse to convert to Islam is a deal breaker, no?

Translation:

"Stick up your ass."

I have come to love the Catholic Church. I am forever in its debt for being the repository of Western thought, and art, and science, and reason down through the ages. I have many Catholic friends who are great lovers of God, and I respect them immensely.

re: #118 bunuel

There are grains of truth in that editorial, but BushCo efforts should not be confused with the Camp David accords. The Clinton non-legacy is a problem for anyone who points to his presidency. He "led" on no domestic issue of significance and the only legislative program that he instituted was the Americorp idea that is more bark than bite. He needed something to hand his hat on, so he went international - he played a useful role in Ireland and Bosnia (evn though his failure to get Congressional authority for Bosnia is troubling) and pressured Barak into doing something dumb and Yassar got a Noble peace prize. The middle east efforts all look so silly in hindsight.

BushCos has a domestic legacy - Education reform, Prescription drug program for the elderly, and Tax cuts. Internationally, of course, the response to 9/11 and the overthrow Saddam. Iran regime change may be on the horizon. Remember, too, that BushCo were very supportive when the Lebennon issue flared. History will ask whether the ousting was necessary. If you fall into the camp that says it was not, then you will blame this administration for destablizing the region. I would think BushCo may want to show that they tried some "peace" initiatives, but those are more an appendage to the Afghanastan, Iraq and (maybe) Iran, that I don't think they will be silly in what they do.

re: #174 Gus Bailey

I wasn't claiming that. No one was.

re: #176 Ward Cleaver

Translation:

"Stick it up your ass."

PIMF!

Blast it!

/so much for the impact

re: #177 mama winger

Yeah and if you mock or criticize it, you won't be subject to death threats.
Can't say the same for the ROP

re: #177 mama winger

I have come to love the Catholic Church. I am forever in its debt for being the repository of Western thought, and art, and science, and reason down through the ages. I have many Catholic friends who are great lovers of God, and I respect them immensely.

Thanks you mama! We love you, too.

Can't tipe wurth a durn tday!

re: #144 EC Marm

Come on Miguel, I see you lurking, come on out and say something!

The only thing I can say now is that it seems that Catholic lizards are some sort of enemies for some sons of bitches around here.
For them bastards we are legitimate targets of scorn, derision, lack of respect, appreciation.
If this keeps on happening (mind you that the only other faith that is thus attacked are THE MUSLIMS) that means Catholics can not be considered as lizards, so we will have to move over and make our own group.

I ask Charles to intervene and let the haters sons of bitches know that we Catholics are a group of the finest lizards.
And we are 1.2 billion, idiotic bastard haters...
Want to aleniate us completely? Do you really want us to be your enemies?
So much hatred gets tiring.

Like that piece of crap that called the Pope a pimp.
Yeah, we Catholics don't deserve any respect. For crap like that we are ALSO the enemy.

I'm so angry I can coordinate my thought correctly.
Fuck the Catholic haters and bashers.
Fuck them a million times.

re: #179 Dianna

Precisely my point, although MamaWinger posted my idea more eloquently.

Buona notte correttamente lucertole.

re: #182 Ward Cleaver

Sometimes I am ashamed of myself for the way I used to think. Very arrogant of me . I am grateful that God didn't conk me over the head, instead - He allowed me to learn and grow.

re: #167 NoSubmission

Catholic bashing on lgf? How ridiculous.

That's never happened.

(rolls eyes)

re: #186 mama winger

re: #182 Ward Cleaver

Sometimes I am ashamed of myself for the way I used to think. Very arrogant of me . I am grateful that God didn't conk me over the head, instead - He allowed me to learn and grow.

That's okay. I cut people alot of slack. I grew up a Baptist, and most of my family are Baptist. I love them all. My mom is a Baptist, and was cool with my converting. She was just happy that I was in a Christian church. As my wife says, "We're all just trying to get to Heaven".

A “silent minority?” Note to Reuters: your Freudian slip is showing.

Oooo, good catch. I would have missed that.

Re: the Vatican's response, I do appreciate it -- unlike the other Christian leaders, who don't seem to have a clue about what's going on, I'm sad to say.

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

Thanks Miguel-I couldn't remember exactly what he said. It wasn't prostitute-it was "pimp of Rome". Nil carborumdum illigitimo. (Don't let the bastards get you down.)
Shabbat Shalom, every one.

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

Hi Miguel.

I'm so sorry that it became necessary for you to even have to say that.

re: #162 mama winger

re: #152 Killgore Trout

Are you aligning Baptists with the Klan?

No, you've got it backwards. Unless I'm mistaken the Klan was predominantly Baptist.

Since this is the internets and anyone can pose as whatever they want to be, or take any side of an issue they want I will say this:
I may be Catholic, I may not be. I may know enough about the religion to do a (sometimes) credible job of defending it. But it is absolutely essential that we do not antagonize (at least) half of Christianity (and a group at least as large as muslims) by cheap attacks on the Catholic Church. The current Pope has a tremendous knowledge of, and ability to change world opinion about islam. I believe, based on his words, that he carries a lot of sorrow and guilt about what happened in Germany as he was growing up. I'm sure that he will, at times, perform 'lip service' towards issues in the Middle East. But this Pope knows who stan is.
Past prejudices need to be set aside or explored, even questioned is fine. Taking cheap shots does no one any good.

Got a ton of work, downloading, reinstalling and de-chaosifiying to do. Be back on later, my friends!

From the Daily Mail - -

Pope's top aide warns of Islamisation of Europe
Pope Benedict XVI's private secretary warned of the Islamisation of Europe and stressed the need for the continent's Christian roots not to be ignored.
"Attempts to Islamise the west cannot be denied," Monsignor Georg Gaenswein was quoted as saying in the weekly Sueddeutsche Magazin to be published Friday
"The danger for the identity of Europe that is connected with it should not be ignored out of a wrongly understood respectfulness," the magazine quoted him as saying. Gaenswein also defended a speech Benedict gave last year linking Islam and violence, saying it was an attempt by the pontiff to "act against a certain naivety."

This is consistent with Benedict's recent efforts to have the EU recognize the Christian foundation of modern Europe ... and frustration with the secular EU's tireless efforts to reject that component of its history as being politically incorrect. It is also consistent with Benedict's exhortation that Europeans not reject having children (i.e., reliance on artificial birth control).

Ironic how much the Church has been villified for asking Europeans not to avoid having children. In a few generations, Europe's folly will become tragically self-evident.

re: #195 nolocon

Ironic how much the Church has been villified for asking Europeans not to avoid having children. In a few generations, Europe's folly will become tragically self-evident.

Absolutely.

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

You're overreacting. Big time. There was one offensive comment, and it was deleted as soon as I became aware of it.

No one is served when you fly off the handle because of one offensive comment.

re: #191 mama winger

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

Hi Miguel.

I'm so sorry that it became necessary for you to even have to say that.

What a great comment. The Spirit is in you, no doubt ;) Thanks a lot!

Good bye for now. Have things to do around the house.
God bless all.

re: #193 EC Marm

Well said.

No more Catholic bashing!

re: #197 Charles

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

You're overreacting. Big time. There was one offensive comment, and it was deleted as soon as I became aware of it.

No one is served when you fly off the handle because of one offensive comment.

Charles, I've had dozens of offensive comments.
You can not throw a thread about the Catholic Church -whatever be the subject- without the typical bashers comming out and attack us Catholics in a very mean way. I've submitted several of them to you, over the months.
Ask other Catholics on the blog. You don't share or sensibility, so you can not feel how offensive a lot of comments are towards Catholics.
Actually not a few non-Catholics have sensed it and so expressed it.

Try to be in a Catholic's shoes for a minute while reading the long list of Catholic hatred.
I know you are an ex-Catholic too.
That's all for now.

re: #197 Charles

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

You're overreacting. Big time. There was one offensive comment, and it was deleted as soon as I became aware of it.

No one is served when you fly off the handle because of one offensive comment.

Yes, let's everyone stand down, please.

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

Miguel,

Conflicts between religious Lizards and atheist Lizards crops up from time to time, and it's gotten pretty hot and heavy at times, but don't let it get to you (and BTW, it's not an anti-Catholic thing. Again, it's religion vs. atheism). If someone makes a harsh and thoughtless comment about the Pope, or Christianity, then let it roll off. Such comments don't represent everyone here, I assure you, and they'll probably reflect poorly on the person who said it.

re: #201 Ward Cleaver

re: #197 Charles

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

You're overreacting. Big time. There was one offensive comment, and it was deleted as soon as I became aware of it.

No one is served when you fly off the handle because of one offensive comment.

Yes, let's everyone stand down, please.

I've made my point for now.

Tell our haters to stop it and that will make things great.
You will never see a Catholic flipping off with no good reason for it.

The Vatican is on a roll over the past couple weeks. Nothing like pardoning the most devoted Crusaders followed by showing some spine and brains in the face of the Islamic doublespoken offer.

re: #202 Live4Truth

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

Miguel,

Conflicts between religious Lizards and atheist Lizards crops up from time to time, and it's gotten pretty hot and heavy at times, but don't let it get to you (and BTW, it's not an anti-Catholic thing. Again, it's religion vs. atheism). If someone makes a harsh and thoughtless comment about the Pope, or Christianity, then let it roll off. Such comments don't represent everyone here, I assure you, and they'll probably reflect poorly on the person who said it.

Some of the worst insults have come from other "believers" and not from atheists. That's my experience as a Catholic here.
The worst insults have most of the time come from OTHER CHRISTIANS.
How nice huh? ;)

People criticize atheists here all the time and I have no desire to have their comments deleted. In the grand scheme of things I found the deleted link less offensive than Ann Coulter's agreement that Judaism should be thrown away.
Let's not create Sacred Cows here. Everybody should open to criticism and not expect others to revere their sensibilities.

You can not throw a thread about the Catholic Church -whatever be the subject- without the typical bashers comming out and attack us Catholics in a very mean way.

Oddly, I don't really mind and regard them as an opportunity to educate and correct what are frequently historical misstatements and myths, usually repeated thoughtlessly and unknowingly.

My favorite is those who condemn the Crusades - at least those in Palestine - to whom my favorite response is that, had the Crusades fully succeeded, the great controvery arising from the Middle East right now would be whether to convert to the Euro.

The pope should release a letter to the world asking the Mos these questions:

1. Would you allow Muslims to convert to any other religion, even become atheist, without harassing them and/or killing them?

2. Would you disavow wife beating as is allowed in the Koran?

3. Would you declare that honor killing and honor rape are horrific acts and have no basis in the Koran?

4. Would you condemn Saudi Arabia for confiscating all non-Muslim religious books, crucifixes, etc. and then burning these sacred religious items?

5. Would you allow heads of states, Presidents, Prime Ministers, etc. - to visit Mecca and Medina, and disavow the apartheid practice of not letting a person visit an entire city because they are of the "wrong religion."

6. Would you allow Muslim women to marry men of their own choosing, who may be of a different faith?

Feel free to add to list, it'd be a long one.

Charles Akbar - Lizard Army getting stronger by the day

I'm out now.
I better go or I will end up being the fucked up one. The offender.

re: #206 Killgore Trout

Again, remember that I'm not: 1) a Catholic; 2) an atheist; or 3) much of a believer at all. But Miguel is right about the anti-papist nonsense thrown around.

What amazes me is that if one person criticizes the basis of the LDS church, six people will land on that person.

But if Catholicism and Catholics are being criticized - on any grounds whatsoever, even grounds that are not valid - a number of people pile on, leaving the Catholics, and their few defenders, battling pretty much alone.

So Miguel has a point.

re: #205 MigueldowninMexico

Some of the worst insults have come from other "believers" and not from atheists. That's my experience as a Catholic here.
The worst insults have most of the time come from OTHER CHRISTIANS.
How nice huh? ;)

I know what you are saying Miguel. I know.

re: #211 mama winger

I think some of that comes from the way we were taught in the 50's and 60's. At least that is my experience coming from a Baptist background.

But now - more has been revealed. Back then no one even thought about a muslim menace. It was not on our radar screens. So we labeled things false teachings based on our limited scope.

We see more clearly now. At least I think I do.

re: #104 NoSubmission

Now is the time of year to share that nugget of information. Spooky! Maybe a Halloween thread is needed this month sometime.

I have now banned two people for that "whore of Rome" crap. I consider it hate speech, and it's not welcome here.

But I'm not going to start telling people they can't criticize the Catholic church, just like I wouldn't tell our more religious people they can't criticize atheism.

re: #212 mama winger

Mama, it's centuries old, and not confined to one sect of Protestants and certainly not to the US.

If you've time and interest, read about the Lord Gordon Riots in England.

re: #215 Dianna

I will Dianna - thank you! Now I have to go soak in a hot tub, my joints are killing me today. :0

Charles - Thank you.

re: #214 Charles

No one's asking you to.

It would be nice, though, if people would look at their behavior when the subject comes up. You can't make them do that, and you shouldn't have to.

re: #217 Dianna

re: #214 Charles

No one's asking you to.

It would be nice, though, if people would look at their behavior when the subject comes up. You can't make them do that, and you shouldn't have to.

Actually Miguel did ask me to do that.

re: #210 Dianna

I seen Mormonism criticized here plenty of times (fairly harshly) without emotional outbursts or people ganging up on other lizards.

re: #214 Charles

Thank you, and AMEN.
Criticize, fine, that other stuff - I was without speech.

re: #219 Killgore Trout

You missed last night, then.

re: #218 Charles

In his rant? Sorry, I misread that, then. I just thought he was expressing his all-around fed-up feeling.

Or did I miss a post?

Never mind; I really don't think you can do more than try to keep people from posting hateful things. I don't see how you can keep up, either.

Thanks for your efforts.

re: #221 Dianna

I guess I missed it but I've linked to the SouthPark episode on Mormonism before and nobody demanded the link be removed. I guess the times are changing.

re: #221 Dianna

What happened last night? or dare I ask? better forgotten?

Killgore, the South Park episode is - like all of 'em - equal opportunity offense. No problem, because it's not really bashing.

JS, it's better forgotten. It got stopped before it went too far, but it was headed for ugly, so least said, soonest mended.

I'm gone. I go to the last remaining cigar bar (so far as I know) in San Francisco to smoke and drink.

Then I shall go home and fool around with my Male.

Have a good evening!

re: #223 Killgore Trout

re: #221 Dianna

I guess I missed it but I've linked to the SouthPark episode on Mormonism before and nobody demanded the link be removed. I guess the times are changing.

Just for the record, I don't remove posts because people demand it -- but that link was to a crackpot hate site, and deserved to be 86'ed.

And just to be sure, I went back and looked at it again. Yup. Crackpot site.

re: #225 Dianna

Chicks are lucky because they can always get lucky.
Enjoy!

By the way, folks -- if you see a post like that, with a link to some kind of crazy hate site, respond to it if you like but please do not quote the post, or your comment will also have to be deleted.

re: #214 Charles

But I'm not going to start telling people they can't criticize the Catholic church, just like I wouldn't tell our more religious people they can't criticize atheism.

That's fair. I can sometimes point people (for example) to articles about how a certain Pope, criticized for inaction during WWII, perhaps was doing more than history has revealed to date, based on new articles or books, or the Vatican releasing archival texts on the subject. I usually don't see the same person taking a pot-shot a second time, after they have read the article. It is not necessarily bad that someone throws a prejudice or perception 'out there' for examination, but sometimes it has gotten out of hand. I try to ignore it because, most of the time, it is the occasional poster that feels that need. The 'regulars' here seldom 'hit and run' with an intentionally malicious and borderline obscene URL in the fashion of the now banned poster.

That's it in a nutshell:

The top Vatican official for Islam...said real theological debate with them was difficult as they saw the Koran as the literal word of God and would not discuss it in depth.

The West can dialogue themselves to death and likely may - there is, however, no dialogue of or about Islam. It's stuck-on-stupid. Islam is incapable of change, compromise or negotiation.

Islam or Holy War.

Take'a you pick.

My Catholic faith is strong enough that I don't care a whole lot about the insults hurled my way because of it.

Jesus never said it would be easy to follow him.

re: #64 NoSubmission

re: #50 Alouette

I'm awash in wires and cd's. Total chaos but getting through it. AND I've got lots to work on with my book. Have a few agents waiting to see my proposal. So I've got my work cut out for me. :)

Good luck with your book!

I stopped sending mine out, like, 10 years ago.

re: #6 EC Marm

I'm thinking he meant silent minority.

You say it.

Everybody silently nods.

You are called on it, and you recant.

Everybody nods again. You've been shown the instruments of torture, and the recantation means only that you fear the pain.

As a Catholic, I am fine with criticism of Catholicism because I believe in free speech. I would appreciate it if was done in an intelligent, productive, and non-hateful manner. As has been said so many times here, no one has the right to NOT be offended. In my experience, education was always emphasized within the Church. Perhaps that is why I am willing to engage in discourse rather than threaten to chop your head off if you insult the Pope.

A Pagan here, with deep respect for the Catholic Church and what it's done to both develop and preserve true civilization throughout the centuries. My own religious sensibilities aren't monotheistic or formal, but that doesn't lessen my appreciation of the beauty of a (well, Latin) Mass, or my awe of people who can be members of the religious Orders. (The Jesuits in particular -- three doctorates? Whoof!)

Anyway, I both love and respect the Catholic Church, even though I couldn't handle being Catholic myself.

I don't know if anyone has alluded to this yet:

Benedict might use a major inter-faith meeting in Naples on Sunday to respond to the appeal. "The pope will be there at the start and will certainly say something"

This was all the way at the bottom of the link Charles provided in the article.

re: #226 Charles

I couldn't tell. It looked like someone quoting scripture in an attempt to prove their religion and disprove another. Seemed pretty pedestrian to me but I guess I'm not a good judge of such matters.

Also of note regarding freedom of the internet, gleaned from Gates of Vienna site:

[Link: www.beppegrillo.it...]

I can and do respect other faiths, as do most other Lizards, I believe. Where I draw the line, however, is when that faith is forced upon me, as do most other Lizards, I believe. But the ability to respectfully critique a faith, and remain reasonable in a theological debate is what separates us from the culture to which Lizards come to LGF and happens to be the topic of this thread.

Thank you very much, Charles, for your tolerance as well as your sensibilities.

"real theological debate with them was difficult as they saw the Koran as the literal word of God and would not discuss it in depth."

Just out of curiosity: I wonder if this means Rome cannot have a "real theological debate" with Christians who consider the bible to be literally interpreted as opposed to being interpreted allegorically?

Muslim view and Christian view is different on this. Even the Christians who believe that the Bible contains events that actually occured, such as myself, don't believe that each word was spoken as is by God, but a message given to a particular man (in a particular culture and time), leaving open some room for interpretation and reason.

Muslims believe that Mo recited the entire thing in a trance, and every word (and subsequent action of the rather conviently chosen 'prophet') is binding to the letter today. That's why you get weird stuff like woman nursing grown men so that they can stay nearby--and evil stuff like perpetual jihad.

Dugg (sic) for accuracy!
silent minority indeed

Islam has no central authority to speak for all believers, especially not the silent minority that does not agree with radicals whose preaching of jihad and rejection of other faiths often dominates the headlines.

especially not the silent minority that does not agree with radicals whose preaching of jihad and rejection of other faiths often dominates the headlines.

Yup, the line is right. I know the guy personally. He will not speak out against Islam for fear that they will issue a fatwa against him and any family he hopes to have.

re: #231 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

The West can dialogue themselves to death and likely may - there is, however, no dialogue of or about Islam. It's stuck-on-stupid. Islam is incapable of change, compromise or negotiation.

Islam or Holy War.

Take'a you pick.

I'll take Holy War for a thousand Alex.

re: #245 JeremyR

especially not the silent minority that does not agree with radicals whose preaching of jihad and rejection of other faiths often dominates the headlines.

Yup, the line is right. I know the guy personally. He will not speak out against Islam for fear that they will issue a fatwa against him and any family he hopes to have.

Do you really know the reporter? If so, please give us more info on his position re Islam.

re: #184 MigueldowninMexico

Miguel, you seem totally unreasonable here. All emotion, no argument. And extending your angst over a few words to cover the whole blog. You are putting yourself in the same bucket as the kostard trolls who slammed the church. This is different from how you talked a year ago.

Don't take the slams against the Catholic church so personally. I find it hard to fathom anyone would get that excited about criticism of the Church, which has born worldwide critiques for thousands of years.

I like the overall history of the church. I am not crazy about it's inability to stop the pedophilia that went on in it. Or be responsible for it. But the church is bigger than that issue. And the Church persecuted my particular religious sect long ago. But not me. And not today.

You're projecting here bud. The issue is more with you than it is with the commenter or the blog. You have hinted your inflexibilty in several posts lately. You need to be and feel more secure in your religion. You should reflect on why you enjoy this inflexibilty and the need you seem to have to feel persecuted. All unnecessary. Don't be a Cindy Sheehan. Ah, I take that back. That is too cruel for anyone on LGF.

If you can't take criticism of the Catholic church you should probably disconnect from the internet, cancel all your TV and Newspapers. Maybe karmically you are a monk.

I am sure the Pope would tell you to hang in there.

re: #229 Charles

I suspect that might be directed at me, in my #148.

My apology, I was unaware that was something you request we not do.

I hope it was not the actual words in the post.

I'll remember this from now on.

The top Vatican official for Islam has praised a novel Muslim call for dialogue...

I don't know if the Vatican is run by corrupt individuals, stupids or cowards.

Regardless, I remain...

/a former Catholic

One thing to keep in mind when the Vatican questions radical Islam. That is the great risk the Church takes. How much would the Vatican cost to replace? Oh, you can't replace the Vatican!

re: #250 rorschach

I saw that as a tactic of good management- start with a little praise before you lower the hammer.

Thank you for finally addressing this issue of the quite rampant Catholic-bashing that has gone on here and elsewhere. I have found it most disgusting, and in fact have turned the focus of my blog to this topic.

Understand that Miguel and others like me who feel completely under attack, especially if we're being attacked in real life as well for our Faith, can hardly hold back from such invective.

I am now faced with the knowledge that American evangelicals are sending missionaries to Mexico and other Catholic countries to "convert" Latin American Catholics to evangelical Protestantism on the grounds that they do not believe that the Roman Catholic Church and followers of it are representative of "real Christianity". Being both religion and culture, I must agree here with Charles that such speech against Catholics is indeed hate speech, as Catholics do constitute a cultural group as well as a religious one in that those born into the Faith shouldn't be attacked for staying in that Faith.

Thank you so much for the Catholic support here in this thread, I found it most refreshing! Like many have stated, criticizing moves by the RC Church doesn't constitute bashing, and in fact is a passtime of many Catholics. It's those quotes that we aren't "real Christians" that are so offensive and hurtful. We all know that there are theological disagreements, but why bother wallowing in them?

Thanks again for the supporting comments!

Wow, the vatican for the second time in as many years comes out and says something right and everyone gets into an a fistfight.

I guess it's kinda funny, but folks, don't forget who the enemy is please.

Hint: it's neither the catholic church nor the Dala Lama.

re: #214 Charles

I have now banned two people for that "whore of Rome" crap. I consider it hate speech, and it's not welcome here.

uh oh
I missed the whore of rome crap but
I sure hope I don't get banned for my
Whore of the Caliphate!
crap ....

re: #257 BabbaZee
I'm sure you're safe. :~)
But seriously, there once was a fella that had problems with a certain religion (you can guess from this thread which). Went around nailing stuff to doors and stuff like that. Became pretty famous. Later on in life he went on to attack another religion in a more despicable fashion. The KKK liked his literature so much they reprinted sections of it. I'm reading a book on Kristallnacht written in 2005 and the author names that fella and says the events of that night were as if taken from his book. You probably already knew this, but it was new to me.

luther

re: #259 BabbaZee
You got it. Maybe the first instance in history where "First they came for the Jews" didn't apply. That is one hateful screed in that link. As the author in Kristallnacht noted, it's almost as if the Nazis used it as a blueprint. The only bright spot in the book so far, is the (way too) occasional instance of a Priest or righteous person stepping up to denounce the hatred and block the violence. A lot of youth were enlisted to participate in the violence, they emptied some schools so the children could participate in the rock or brick throwing.

re: #260 EC Marm

Ya. Vol!

This is why when people say "Islam needs Martin Luther" I always wind up in an argument....

lol

re: #255 ploome hineni

Actually, most people assume that I am Jewish. Next, Muslim. I get it from every angle. No matter how much I grow up, there are still racists out there that I occasionally feel the need to thrash on. But thanks for the tip, as always.

re: #255 ploome hineni

Ploome, you think I don't know that? My Great-Grandparents were dhimmis (millets) in Asia Minor for pete's sake. We've all been under the yoke. You shouldn't be so amused at my reaction, I've been on your side all along. Became agnostic for 15 years after a "Christian" at my high school insisted that Jews weren't "saved". Still don't agree with the Church on that one.

What I do find amusing is the fact that you actually said, "grow up" right before pulling the "my people are more oppressed than yours" card. I feel no lack of maturity right now, no offense, but I still stick up for Israel and the Jewish People and fight tooth and nail anyone who opposes them. Thanks for the exchange.