I'm very sorry to see this too, Charles.

I've seen this coming for a while now.

Sad. Just sad. So many blogs exist because of Charles' influence and inspiration, and some turn on him. Sad.

Pamela is a shock...

It is surprising that anyone can link Charles and LGF to CAIR at all. It makes me feel kinda dirty.

I must say I am surprised at the reaction. What good is it to exchange one form of fascism for another? Those who have nothing to hide shouldn't fear a few questions.

re:

I'm surprised she would associate with parties that only yesterday were fascists but now want to appeal to larger discontent among ordinary citizens. Can we defeat the Islamofascists without becoming like them?

Charles- can we have another So. Cal fire thread- that was pretty cool yesterday getting some first hand info form So. Cal Lizards!

Your mutual enemies will be having a good laugh.

wow

I can't count the number of times I've jumped to conclusions only to realize shortly afterwards that I took something out of context. I'm hoping that this soon is resolved.

There is a common enemy, and it isn't any of us.

In the immortal words of Obi Wan, "Let's play nice out there....."

nasa tv

t- 5 minutes

#3: Look, I'm one of the people who learned the art of blogging from Charles and LGF, as some of you probably know. And I don't like criticizing him because this is one of the most important anti-Jihad websites not just in the United States, but in the world. But I did disagree with his initial reaction to the conference, and I still do. It must be allowed to say that.

And for the record: Yes, I was at that conference, too.

LGF is the gold standard.

I'm surprised at the way she trivialises collaboration with the Nazis in WWII.

Damned Shame.

I've noticed that some of the only publications in Britain willing to confront the issue of Islam's incompatibility with Western Liberalism are Gay magazines and journals.

It would probably be a good idea for those who wish to organize against the Islamisation of Europe to work with some of these Gay groups in order to create as broad a coalition as possible.

re:

#13 Fjordman

Disagreement is fine and a healthy thing as well. I'm hoping that this chapter is put behind us quickly and we're better, stronger people for it.

lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.....

Atlas Shrugs: "I assure you there was no neo nothing going on there. Charles painted this herculean effort with one ugly brush and took everyone and everything down with it."

Huh? I'm not gettin' it, I guess. I don't see it!

An enemy of CAIR? What an honor.

Can't we all just get along...? -Rodney

#13 Fjordman

P.S. I'm coming in "way" on the tail-end of this so I'm just going to sit back and find out what exactly happened before I run my yap. I think I know what's going on, but am not entirely certain.

To say he's in bed with cair?! Friends don't do that.

I've never said that and I never will, it's a stupid and unfair thing to say. I wouldn't have been posting here for several years if I thought that.

Linking Charles with CAIR in any form is ludicrous.

Is something clouding her judgment?

re:

We must be vigilante of the "divide and conquer" moves by ALL of our enemies, both domestic amd world-wide. They know that a united front against them is the tactic they must avoid at all costs.

re:

I can't believe I read this sentence in Pamela's column.

Who the hell wasn't a nazi collaborator in Europe? Puhleeeeeze.

MY GRANDFATHER, who attacked a nazi armored train and was left for dead together with the other Freedom Fighters with him.
My Father, who was a FreedomFighter with the Partisans.

I can't believe this.

This is personal and bloody personal for me.

I feel like I'm missing something, but not quite sure what it is.

Another schismatic blog. Personally, I blame Peacekeeper.

re: #24 BulgarWheat

#13 Fjordman

P.S. I'm coming in "way" on the tail-end of this so I'm just going to sit back and find out what exactly happened before I run my yap. I think I know what's going on, but am not entirely certain.

It's about one post; the link to it is in the post above.

re: #21 Le_Patriot

Atlas Shrugs: "I assure you there was no neo nothing going on there. Charles painted this herculean effort with one ugly brush and took everyone and everything down with it."

Huh? I'm not gettin' it, I guess. I don't see it!

Neither do I. All Charles raised was a cautionary sentence regarding some, but hardly all, of the participants. There are those out there who side with us and are unsavory. There are those out there who side with us and we do not agree with them in some, or even many aspects. There are those here with whom I disagree.

However, we must stick together to win this, and must not become like them in order to win it. I don't want to become the dragon I'm attempting to slay.

This is the problem with the internet.

One disagreement can turn into flame wars that can doom a good friendship.

I am sitting here in my office and I can start flaming people left and right, if I feel that something offends me, with all of the anonymity I can want.

It's just terrible.

Pamela, Charles is the end-all-be-all of what is good in our world today and a disagreement with him doesn't change that.

Geez.

I'm surprised that she launched on Charles without at least talking to him first, as seems to be the case....

re:

Wow, this is really sad. Boy. If Charles is on the wrong side, I would hate to see what side the MSM and the PC socialist crowd are on.

I'm not even sure I get what the fuss is all about. I don't want to go saying people are on the wrong side. Both LGF and Atlas Shrugs have impeccable credentials as far as I am concerned, and this is confusing and troubling.

It's got to be a misunderstanding. It will pass.

I don't quite understand what this is all about. I'll lurk and listen till I catch on.

You'll have to kiss and make up. Lucky bastard.

#27: Well, but neither do we. We cannot go around being scared of what the Left says about us all the time or we've already lost. As anybody who has read my articles would know, I hate antisemitism and would never have set foot in a conference if I believed there were prominent anti-Semites there.

Roy Beck of

[Link: www.numbersusa.com...]

Needs help on Harry Reids deal to help Dickless Drubin on his "Dream Act" aka "am-nasty" for 35 year old children of illegals, sorry to report two turn coat R's are co-sponsors, Hagle and Lugar, Roy says 58,000 faxes went to the unSenate yesterday, and more needed plus calls to any and all Senators, do not just give up, call any way even Durbins offices and Reidless office, call, call, call, stand up for America in their face.

Food for thought:

David Duke.

I have a very difficult time thinking he turned into anything but a crypto-antisemite.

re: #34 Honorary Yooper

All Charles raised was a cautionary sentence regarding some, but hardly all, of the participants.

Which he has done many times in the past. My enemies enemy is not always a friend.

re: #13 Fjordman

#3: Look, I'm one of the people who learned the art of blogging from Charles and LGF, as some of you probably know. And I don't like criticizing him because this is one of the most important anti-Jihad websites not just in the United States, but in the world. But I did disagree with his initial reaction to the conference, and I still do. It must be allowed to say that.

And for the record: Yes, I was at that conference, too.

I'm not going to speak for Charles, but for me, it was the LGF-CAIR nexus that made her post beyond the pale. Respectful disagreement is one thing; personal insults are another.

What is wrong with caution, keeping an open mind and keeping our eyes wide open? I tell my children, question everything - don't be a sheep.

re:

I love Atlas but she gets a little whacked sometimes. She's the female Savage.

re:

re:

Sweet launch, cool to watch as usual. This one seemed very fast. The pilot must have it the nitro injector too soon.

re:

We must always be scrupulous about those with whom we ally ourselves.

I read the post that Pamela is referring to and I don't see the CAIR heart Charles connection. It's GROUPTHINK, Pamela, when you can't criticize anything related to a specific group. Lizards are not groupthinksters. We are free- thinksters. So, it is perfectly acceptable that we can criticize some shady figures at the counter- jihad summit, while at the same time supporting the overall counter- jihad effort. Pamela, it's time to apologize.

Not all people who pretend to espouse the values of the Western civilization actually do. Some bigots in Europe have forgotten that the West is also about freedom and tolerance. It's not fair to attack Charles for pointing that out.

re:

re:

Charles,

I believe you are in the right (as in correct) to be concerned with regard to the rising tide of ultra-right wing groups in Europe. (Another one is the Swiss People's Party which recently won a number of seats in Switzerland). (I find it curious that if political parties, such as the Sweden Democrats, were so desirous of distancing themselves from unsavory ultra-right wing associations, why would they choose to use terminology such as "final solution"? -- I don't think they are desirous of distancing themselves -- that's the problem. They think they can get political mileage by toying with certain notions. But racism is morally wrong, and parties which appeal to it, will eventually rue the day and regret that they were ever seen to endorse it.) (I am also very sorry to hear how Pamela views this situation.)

re: #53 Ward Cleaver

We must always be scrupulous about those with whom we ally ourselves.

amen....sometimes the enemies of our enemy are our enemies and like to use us as their useful idiots

re:

Pamela, I'm hoping you'll stand down, and turn down the rhetoric. We don't need an internecine flame war.

re: #25 Fjordman

To say he's in bed with cair?! Friends don't do that.

I've never said that and I never will, it's a stupid and unfair thing to say. I wouldn't have been posting here for several years if I thought that.

I might be incorrect, but I believe that Sharmuta might have been talking about the Atlas Shrugged article, in responding to your comment.

Charles, the ones of power do not like to share, free speech is also a real threat to them, and they have long arms, keep a clear view of your drag at the rear, most ambush's come from the rear. When walking point as you do many see your tracks clear.

re:

LGF and Atlas Shrugs - my two favorite blogs. Let the rational thinking begin.

#50: I don't have any problems with that. One of the leading persons in my country to criticize the effects of Muslim immigration is a Gay rights activist and ardent Feminist. She's a good friend of Bruce Bawer. I'm not a Feminist at all, but I love her work and have no problem with cooperating with her. I'd even cooperate with sensible Leftists, if I could actually find some. OK, a few do exist.

re: #65 debutaunt

LGF and Atlas Shrugs - my two favorite blogs. Let the rational thinking begin.

Careful there, debutant. You don't want to cause a quantum instability and destroy the universe, now, do you? ;-)

Robert Spencer is one of the most lucid players in this whole effort. He is never prone to emotional statements, sticking slavishly to the facts. He, as vehemently as he has ever done with anyone, denounced all of the Neo-Nazi parties and their ideology. Not everyone is on an even keel like Spencer.

I totally missed the original thread put up by Charles last Friday on this issue. I'm going to go back and read it now.....

I've read Atlas's post regarding this and I also participated in charles's thread. All is see is that Charles was pointing out that there were scheduled to be some rather unsavory characters at the conference...

We have to be careful to not align our fight in the WOT with very bad right wing groups in the same way the Dems have aligned with very bad left wing groups...

re:

re:

The reason Islaomofascism disgusts me is not because it's Islamic, but because it's fascist.

I don't want anything to do with any form of Nazism, whether Muslim, neo or moonbat.

re:

I trust Robert Spencer like I trust Charles - voices of reason.

Charles painted this herculean effort with one ugly brush and took everyone and everything down with it."

Everyone and everything?

Pamela, what bullshit - and you know it's bullshit. All he did was express some doubts of his own and give his readers some resources to decide for themselves.

I wonder - before publicly slamming Charles on a specious charge, did Pamela confer with him in private as a friend? Or did she just go PR-stunt-batshit?

Europe's handwringing over Islamization is sadly too little, too late.

For better or worse, Islamists have a Foundation ... their religion.

What is Europe's Foundation? ... Collectivism? Nihilism? Negative Population Growth? Hedonism?

The only potential defense Europe had was Nationalism ... and that was so massively abused in two world wars that its resurgence (in a benevolent form) is unlikely.

And what the marxofascists and the islamofascists DREAM of, is that the antijihadists get mixed in any way with the neonazi mud.
It would be their final victory.
Prudence is of strategic importance.

re: #35 AG in Houston

This is the problem with the internet.

One disagreement can turn into flame wars that can doom a good friendship.

I am sitting here in my office and I can start flaming people left and right, if I feel that something offends me, with all of the anonymity I can want.

It's just terrible.

Pamela, Charles is the end-all-be-all of what is good in our world today and a disagreement with him doesn't change that.

Geez.

Ditto.

LGF is the premier anti- Islamofascism site.

Those of us who have frequented LGF for years ‘know’ Charles. Pamela ‘knows’ Charles.

“By their fruit you will recognize them.”

This is entirely uncalled for from Atlas Shrugs.

I’m standing by Charles on this one.

re:

I stopped going to her site after the bikini in the shallows monologue episode...

#68: Robert Spencer probably thought well through the evidence before going to the conference, and in my view he made the right choice. He's a very good speaker, by the way, but I already knew that. So is Andy.

#33 Charles

Thanks for the reply. I'll review and educate myself before further posting on the issue. As I mentioned up-thread, I've been a pretty bad offender of jumping to conclusions and this is something I can improve on.

what a disappointment, pamela. charles has mentored you and then you turn like this over ONE post?

get a clue. NOW who's painting with a broad brush?!?

re: #74 NY Nana

re: #30 Poitiers-Lepanto

I am so sorry...that is like a knife in the back for you.

G-d bless your family for their courage and decency.

Thank you VERY MUCH.
Literally, a knife in the back.

I am noy OK in this moment, I will be back.

I thought Atlas had thicker skin than that. Very disappointed that we're slashing at each other even as our enemies celebrate making clowns out of our government in the Holy Land Foundation trial.

Focus, people...focus!

re: #82 Fjordman

#68: Robert Spencer probably thought well through the evidence before going to the conference, and in my view he made the right choice. He's a very good speaker, by the way, but I already knew that. So is Andy.

Robert Spencer made the right decision for himself......Charles decision was right for himself.....different people, different decisions.....both decisions were right for the individual.....not wrong for either....just different

re:

re:

I posted at Atlas Shrugs when I saw her unexpected comments about LGF and Charles. Then I came here and saw this post by Charles.

It seems like Pamela's real complaint is that Charles didn't help promote the event. I don't know if that's true, but I also don't see how it matters.

Good, common sense teaches us to be extremely scrupulous when it comes to making allies. There is no need to go through a long litany of the varieties of extremist hate which have come out of europe in the last century, alone; it spans the spectrum. We must be careful in choosing those with whom we have common weal. With wisdom and truth as our weapon, our enemies will fall.

re:

There's an apalling paragraph in Atlas' article that says that Europeans have no choice but to be branded either surrender monkeys or neo-Nazis. This is nonsense. The French president is a straight-talker, and no one would call him a neo-Nazi. If you don't want your party to be branded neo-Nazi, kick out the SS veterans, say outright that you don't welcome anti-semites, and stop denying the holocaust.

re: #9 Peacekeeper

Your mutual enemies will be having a good laugh.

My first thought.

When I get all riled up (like a child) I come here to see what the adult has to say, that being Charles. Charles posted a few days back.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It is this type of reasoned response, that enforces in me that I have a lot to learn and about the type of person I want to be when I "grow up."

I am grateful for Charles and his work.

[Link: www.MyHeritage.org...]

They have sent out another National Survey on Immigration Policy
bet if you join they will count your votes, the letter with it is from Ed Meese III and he does say Regan did the am-nasty in 1986 and says they put in enforcement, but it has never been used, and he says this is our last chance to fix the borders, on this see the August backgrounder at
[Link: www.cis.org...]
by Steven A. Camarota
"100 Million More" Projecting the Impact of Immigration on the U.S. Population, 2007 to 2060."

Time runs short, History does not care that "We the People" are asleep at the wheel, History moves out of the way of the past he writes down with never closing eyes.

The problem with this is the attack on each other. There are questions about vlaams blok / vlams belang's past and some members -- much of that is overblown, and over the top, but again there are grains of truth.

1. There is a streak of strong nationalism there, willingness to split with the EU, part of the reason the original VB was really made illegal. I don't see anything wrong with that -- the EU sucks.

2. There is also an unfortunate original stance that all "non-Euros" needed to go. That's unfortunate as it diminished their cause, and allowed the "racist neo-nazi" labels to stick. The stance has been softened to "those who don't assimilate must go" after the party reformed.

What needs to be attacked is CAIR"s message - Neo Nazi is well over the top, and where's the proof of "nazi collaboration" if it exists?

Pamela needs to review what Code Pink, Answer and the Palestinian movement do to the anti-war protests. They infiltrate into the group and subvert the cause (btw, I am not anti-war, I am just making a comparison).
Not everyone that appears to be on the same side, IS on the same side.

"Who the hell wasn't a nazi collaborator in Europe? Puhleeeeeze."
What stunning, offensive ignorance.

I like atlas,but some of her stuff seemed like who she could be seen with. name dropper,photo op and such

re:

Equating Charles and LGF with CAIR is so mind boggling I don't know what to think. Charles raised some very reasonable questions. For Pamela to rant in such a fashion is very disappointing, LGF has stood firmly on our side from the start. I had a very hard time believing I was reading that.

Land Shark

re: #30 Poitiers-Lepanto

I can't believe I read this sentence in Pamela's column.

Who the hell wasn't a nazi collaborator in Europe? Puhleeeeeze.

Pamela, this single line from your column shows you're either ignorant on the matter, or a hateful scum. Either way, no more clicky for your blog.

She doesn't do "subtle" very well. She may yet apologize for getting carried away.

Anyone that reads LGF and Atlas regularly knows that these two blogs are very different animals. Charles is cautious and nuanced whereas Pamela is reactionary and in you face. The problem with reactionaries is they often overreact. When you overreact you often end up with egg on your face. Pamela clearly overreacted here. I read her blog daily and I think she has made a big mistake. I respect her commitment to her cause just as i do Charles'. There are different ways to skin a cat and Pamela needs to keep her eye on the enemy and not those that support her.

re:

re:

re:

As a newbie commenter here but someone who has read LGF for over 3 years now as well as read Atlas's blog from time to time since its inception, I am saddened by this. It seems to me that Charles was only being cautious for very good reason. Just as we see ultra-leftists align with Islam fanatics-- these very people who would murder them, we don't want to align with potentially ultra right fanatics (nazis), who would also murder many of us. Charles was only saying that it needs to be looked into before our mutual enemy is able to make a connection between Charles (as well as his supporters and like-minded bloggers) and those very groups. I, personally would like to know more about the groups and I hope we will get more insight into them before aligning ourselves with them.
Thank you Charles for the education I've gotten from reading this blog!

re: #106 Charles

re:

Atlas Shruged. A reference to that infamous atheist Ayn Rand's terrible book. Nuf said.

re:

#101 WriterMom

Thanks for that post!

I feel like the little kid at the Thanks Giving table watching parents, uncles, and cousins fighting over something that would be trivial on any other day of the year.

I hope that Atlas at least responds to Charles. In my humble opinion he has extended the Olive Branch. She should hear him out.
Poitiers-Lepanto, my paternal Grand Father (German-Born from Cincinnati) was one of Wild Bill's lads. Their paths may have crossed.

If I understand it correctly, Atlas wanted Charles to jump on a bandwagon. Charles wanted to see who jumped on first. Atlas was a little peeved he wasn't the first one at the party. I did see the original thread. I did go read some of the Swedish parties lit. They got more than enough from LGF. An introduction.

Two distinct blogs. Two distinct styles. Very different. I think if Atlas would post great content about the conference, Charles might link to it. If she gets offended by the lack of attention and slings some slurs. Not much is going to happen.

Pamela is a women. Women get emotional....Sometimes they say things that they don really mean, especially after they've had a few glasses of wine.

/...well, it's true.

What I don't understand is why, if there was a question about something here, Atlas could not have contacted Charles privately and sorted it out, instead of making a public spat that will cause glee in unholy quarters.

There's an apalling paragraph in Atlas' article that says that Europeans have no choice but to be branded either surrender monkeys or neo-Nazis.

That's probably one of my quotes, and I stand by that statement. What we are dealing with in Europe isn't immigration, it's colonization. If non-Europeans have the right to resist colonization then so do Europeans. How come we're called "racists" if we even hint we desire the right to self-preservation when this is taken for granted by everybody else on the planet? Is it because we're white? I'm sorry, but I have to ask that question.

let's all just keep calm. Pamela is one great gal and very dedicated.
A little over exuberance is not the end of the world. Charles you are a big boy, a leader very much respected, and a true ally so don't let this create a breech in the strong wall against the crazies of the world.
You and Pamela need to discuss this between yourselves and not say things that will hurt you both.

re:

re:

Im so confused....I dont get why atlas shrugs would even say any of that.....i have been reading and posting here for a long time and on Robert Spencers website and I never saw this coming.....

BTW, the post I submitted to Atlas Shrugs basically says "I don't see your point. Charles posted Spenser's response to CAIR. Organizers of such events do need to be careful that they don't set themselves up for guilt-by-association attacks.""

re: #115 Ringo the Gringo

Pamela is a women. Women get emotional....Sometimes they say things that they don really mean, especially after they've had a few glasses of wine.

/...well, it's true.

/just because it's true doesn't mean you needed to say it!

Re; post 115

"who is this Ringo you speak of?"
Turns, ducks, looks, and runs..........

re: #99 troonbop

"Who the hell wasn't a nazi collaborator in Europe? Puhleeeeeze."
What stunning, offensive ignorance.

That comment of hers sounds like something Bigel would say.

It's up to groups like Vigilant Freedom to repudiate neo-Nazis and make every effort to keep them out of conferences like the one just past. We have an obligation to be better than those in the leftist-islamist convergence.