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Islam in Europe: 'This Isn't Going to Be Pretty'

Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 5:29:09 pm PDT

Here’s a very good post by Esther at Islam in Europe, on a subject that’s been ballpeen-hammered to death at LGF in the past week: Nazis!!!

This isn’t going to be pretty, so if you want to focus only on the news, feel free to skip this.

I don’t usually follow what’s happening in the Blogosphere, as I spend a lot of time reading the regular media, but in the past few days the Blogosphere has been in an uproar with accusations and counter-accusations going strong. Apparently it started with Little Green Footballs accusing several right wing groups of being racist and of hitching up their agenda to the anti-Jihadi movement.

I debated whether to jump into the fray. My blog focuses on translating news, not on inter-blog debates, but most important - I’m afraid of the reactions. On the other hand, maybe this is a good reason to speak up.

I do not want to get into the debate about any specific group being “racist”. What bothers me more is the idea that bloggers can’t speak, or express an opinion, because they stepped on somebody else’s feet. Because they expressed a valid fear.

I am afraid of the Islamization of Europe. But I am also, and even more, afraid of the rise of the extreme right. In fact, one of my main fears is that people will get so fed up by the political correctness being shoved down their throats that they’ll go from liberalism to the other extreme. As a Jew, I have no illusions - the Muslims might be kicked out first, but the Jews will suffer horribly when that happens.

I had blogged in the past about the anti-mosque protests in Cologne, and what struck me most was an interview with one “ordinary German” : “I’m just afraid of fundamentalist Muslims gaining more and more ground,” says one female shop assistant. But it’s hardly possible to voice this fear because of the risk of immediately being labeled right-wing, she says.

Indeed. Of course, the Left is using every tactic it can and labeling people Nazi’s and racists is one of the simplest. But this does not mean that there is no such thing as neo-Nazis, no such thing as racists and no such thing as extreme right.

Going back to the Cologne protests: neo-Nazi groups are hijacking the protests. All it takes is a couple of skinheads to show up, wave banners and the entire demonstration changes its tone from one of serious concern about Islamizatoin to a racist one.

Can anybody guess which picture was featured on the news and which on the Pro-Cologne site?

Now, why am I writing all this? Because what gets me really upset is hypocrisy. Little Green Footballs named Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats as racist groups. Brussels Journal, in return, accused LGF of being “more PC than thou“. But didn’t Vlaams Belang/Brussels Journal do exactly the same thing, just less than two months ago?

On September 11th three groups from the UK, Denmark and Germany, organized a demonstration in Brussels against Islamization under the umbrella organization Stop the Islamization of Europe. The demonstration was banned by the mayor of Brussels, and Dr. Ulfkotte, the German organizer, went to court.

Ulfkotte got support from Vlaams Belang, and Brussels Journal followed the story very closely. That is.. until Ulfkotte decided he’s had enough. Then he became the enemy. He was accused of planning it all in advance to discredit Vlaams Belang and the demonstration.

Brussels Journal discovered that Ulfkotte had written a book about the French riots where he had brought up the claim that the Mossad was responsible for them. In other words, Brussels Journal accused a fellow anti-Jihadi, an until-recently valued member of the group, of being a paranoid anti-Semitic. (Btw, this piece of info was freely available to Vlaaams Belang in the days when the demonstration was planned and when the court was petitioned. A simple internet search brings it up.)

The claim now floating about Little Green Footballs giving ammunition to CAIR and their ilk are ridiculous. But they’re ridiculous most for the underlying premise which is that a right wing blogger can’t agree with Muslims. This claim is ridiculous because there are quite a few anti-Muslim groups who agree with Muslims, in their anti-Semitic views. Hitler salutes, kill the jews.. does that sound at all familiar? There are quite a few radical Islamists and right-wingers who would be at home with those sentiments.

Read the whole thing...

955 comments

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1 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  10/26/07 5:32:09 pm
2 WrathofG-d  10/26/07 5:32:56 pm reply quote

Great so our choices are Nazis on the one hand, and Islamists on the other?

Great so pretty much no matter what we do we end up with a Fascist Europe (again!)

3 Sharmuta  10/26/07 5:33:34 pm reply quote

Thank you, Ester.

4 SecretInternetDoucheBag  10/26/07 5:34:16 pm reply quote

Yeah these inter blog spats always end up sounding like people talking crap to eachother in an AOL chat room or while playing a hard core game of Risk in a public library.

5 Charles  10/26/07 5:36:22 pm reply quote

re: #4 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Yeah these inter blog spats always end up sounding like people talking crap to eachother in an AOL chat room or while playing a hard core game of Risk in a public library.

This isn't just an "inter blog spat." It's being noticed at some pretty high levels of all of these parties, in Europe and the US.

6 dmandman  10/26/07 5:37:46 pm reply quote

OT! I asked this just before the topic change so I am going to repost:

But what the heck is going on? I just read about another skipper being sacked. This time for an engine fire on an Aegis DDG on a port call to Japan. This at least one other surface ship recently and the 4 sub skippers I just read about seems like a real shake up in the field command within the Navy. The last time I can recall historically for that much movement was right after Pearl Harbor. Is there something going on behind the scenes?

7 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  10/26/07 5:39:23 pm
8 mbruce  10/26/07 5:39:28 pm reply quote

Like I have said before, the Left/Right diametric is not a straight line, it is more of a horseshoe shape, and the extremes almost meet in the middle.

9 Killgore Trout  10/26/07 5:40:50 pm reply quote

re:

10 dogbreath  10/26/07 5:40:51 pm reply quote

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

11 Ezekiel2517  10/26/07 5:41:03 pm reply quote

She's distorted a statement of "misgivings" into calling those political parties racist groups.

12 Sharmuta  10/26/07 5:41:12 pm reply quote

re:

13 Thanos  10/26/07 5:41:33 pm reply quote

Charles speaks true, this is touching politics globally. I've been surfing.

14 BeerForMyHorses  10/26/07 5:42:22 pm reply quote

Maybe the Nazis are in league with the Muslims and are only pretending to be against Jihadis in order to discredit the rest of us. Remember, the Hitler/Muslim Brotherhood connection.

15 Sharmuta  10/26/07 5:43:29 pm reply quote
What bothers me more is the idea that bloggers can't speak, or express an opinion, because they stepped on somebody else's feet. Because they expressed a valid fear.

Kind of defeats the purpose of blogging, imo.

16 NJDhockeyfan  10/26/07 5:43:35 pm reply quote

re: #10 dogbreath

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.


I'va always wondered that too.

17 Killgore Trout  10/26/07 5:45:19 pm reply quote

It's very important to note the section about the SIAD "attacks" that everyone has been linking to....

Stop the Islamization Denmark (SIOD) had organized a protest in Copenhagen this past Sunday. On their way to the protest the organizers were brutally attacked, apparently not by Muslims but by left-wing radical anarchists. (see here, here and here)

The claim is that this wasn't mentioned in the Danish media, but both the demonstration and the attack were mentioned on the Jyllands Posten, Politiken and DR sites. The identity of the attackers might not have been mentioned, and in that sense the media were remiss.

A right wing extremist group was attacked by left wing extremists in a city which in the past few months had seen hundreds of left wing extremists riot. Hundreds of leftists and anarchists have been battling the police, using tactics that wouldn't have embarrassed any Intifada rioter. And now anti-Jihadi blogs want to know why this specific incident wasn't made into a more serious item. Clashes between right wing and left wing extremists are not that rare and are usually very violent.

The clashes between extremist groups are commonplace, this one was minor.

18 Racer X  10/26/07 5:46:19 pm reply quote

My dad used to tell me to be very particular of who you associate with. If you are standing with a group of kids and one throws a rock at a cop car - you will all go to jail.

Guilt by association is a flag waved more often lately on both sides of politics.

Every time there is one truther banner at a rally guess what happens? They all get tainted.

Same for ONE Nazi.

19 Jimmy The Clam  10/26/07 5:46:38 pm reply quote

re: #10 dogbreath

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

By the rest of the world accepting UNQUESTIONINGLY the vocabulary and narrative of the hard-Left.

After the devil convincing the world that he didn't exist, I would say the communists and socialists pretending that the Nazis were their polar opposites would be the second greatest deception of all time.

20 SecretInternetDoucheBag  10/26/07 5:46:47 pm reply quote

re: #13 Thanos

Charles speaks true, this is touching politics globally. I've been surfing.

Can you give me some links? I have not heard about this except for this post by Charles, at least that I remember.

21 Killgore Trout  10/26/07 5:47:27 pm reply quote

I was a little confused about the two picture she posted. I assume the second one shows the VB "military wing".

22 konservo  10/26/07 5:48:16 pm reply quote

re: #8 mbruce

Like I have said before, the Left/Right diametric is not a straight line, it is more of a horseshoe shape, and the extremes almost meet in the middle.

According to Hannah Arendt, if I remember correctly, the extreme Left and the extreme Right are linked by their totalitarian ideologies.

23 Orbit Rain  10/26/07 5:48:31 pm reply quote

...well this is what I have to say...

There is one America, and a BUNCH of other countries out there...all you other "high level" people focus on us, while there are an TON of other languages out there to follow...sorry...so many, too many to follow sometimes...most of the time...no...ALL OF THE TIME...that's why I think there is the truth that knows and the infinite number of lies that can surround it are too many to follow...why the hell would I read KOS?. .; . a pack of liars screaming for attention...

as far as racism goes...

we're all children of the same creator...

just some of our cousins are brainwashed to hate

some of us see our souls as bodies...act like animals, unable to control their lust...go tell our dear friends they can tell their boys to behave as a civilized man around women...tell them that their mind controls their body, not the other way around...free your women from their cozy slavery...

...unless you prefer idiots for children, bloodthirsty madmen released from *your* gardens...

my dear friends

my brothers

don't make me kill you...

as I would hope mine would kill me

24 Stinky Beaumont  10/26/07 5:49:26 pm reply quote

That new armor plating's almost finished, boss. Looks like you're gonna need it.

25 Charles  10/26/07 5:50:52 pm reply quote

Can we put a rush order on that, Stinks? I miss my balls.

26 Killgore Trout  10/26/07 5:51:25 pm reply quote

re:

27 NJDhockeyfan  10/26/07 5:51:33 pm reply quote

re: #20 SecretInternetDoucheBag

re: #13 Thanos


Charles speaks true, this is touching politics globally. I've been surfing.

Can you give me some links? I have not heard about this except for this post by Charles, at least that I remember.

With a little Googling you will find a treasure trove of stories about this. I looked around last night and was amazed how much is out there.

28 Geepers  10/26/07 5:52:04 pm reply quote
“I’m just afraid of fundamentalist Muslims gaining more and more ground,” says one female shop assistant. But it’s hardly possible to voice this fear because of the risk of immediately being labeled right-wing, she says.

The liberals having tamped down any dissension from lefty idealism with outraged cries of "racist-bigot-Nazi" is something akin to never allowing the underbrush to burn off. It's gonna be ugly when it finally happens.

29 Render  10/26/07 5:52:44 pm reply quote

re:

30 experiencedtraveller  10/26/07 5:52:49 pm reply quote

Charles' balls are back?

31 experiencedtraveller  10/26/07 5:54:20 pm reply quote

re: #30 experiencedtraveller

Charles' balls are back?

under the couch right? Just like I told ya right? huh huh...

32 NoSpam  10/26/07 5:54:27 pm reply quote

There are too many media outlets basically threatening to Godwin people who don't agree with them, using the same intimidation tactics the Nazis used in persuit of their PC 'sanitization' of the media. (Of course, if you point this out you are just 'one of the [evil] sheeple')

And then the Nazi/fascist/generic extremist loonies take the opportunity to spread their hate, and the msm's point to them to use as an 'example' of how everyone is just being bigoted...

Grumble...

33 NJDhockeyfan  10/26/07 5:54:50 pm reply quote

re: #30 experiencedtraveller

Charles' balls are back?


I didn't know they were out for repair.

34 Dr. Shalit  10/26/07 5:54:51 pm reply quote

re:

35 nyc redneck  10/26/07 5:55:04 pm reply quote

re:

36 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  10/26/07 5:55:27 pm
37 Sharmuta  10/26/07 5:56:10 pm reply quote
Of course, the Left is using every tactic it can and labeling people Nazi's and racists is one of the simplest. But this does not mean that there is no such thing as neo-Nazis, no such thing as racists and no such thing as extreme right.

I'd say the neo-nazis, etc. revel in the over use of the terms- it's making it easier for them to hide in plain view.

38 NoSpam  10/26/07 5:56:14 pm reply quote

re: #31 experiencedtraveller

re: #30 experiencedtraveller


Charles' balls are back?

under the couch right? Just like I told ya right? huh huh...

Did you happen to find my car keys in there while you were searching?

39 MandyManners  10/26/07 5:56:25 pm reply quote

re: #10 dogbreath

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

Setting up the L/R dichotomy is one of totalitarianism's/Stan's greatest feats ever.

40 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  10/26/07 5:57:38 pm
41 msdixie  10/26/07 5:57:44 pm reply quote

Please, let's not spat!

Allies during war might never be friends in peace. Ideological purity might look good on paper but doesn't help on the ground.

The enemy is happy with this discord and grows bolder with each each tap on our keyboards. We are wasting precious mind-time.

United we stand, divided we fall. Trite, but true.

42 MandyManners  10/26/07 5:57:52 pm reply quote

re: #24 Stinky Beaumont

That new armor plating's almost finished, boss. Looks like you're gonna need it.

Does it have pretty scroll work? Did you sign it?

43 littleoldlady  10/26/07 5:57:58 pm reply quote

re: #22 konservo

re: #8 mbruce


Like I have said before, the Left/Right diametric is not a straight line, it is more of a horseshoe shape, and the extremes almost meet in the middle.

According to Hannah Arendt, if I remember correctly, the extreme Left and the extreme Right are linked by their totalitarian ideologies.

And both extremes are antisemitic.

I guess it makes sense for Esther, living in Europe, to fear "the right" much more.

44 bonz  10/26/07 5:58:09 pm reply quote

The poor thing still believes the Nazis were of the right. They werw right of the USSR and weren't labeled fascist until they attacked the USSR.

"There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will."

Guess who?

45 NoSpam  10/26/07 5:58:10 pm reply quote

re: #34 Dr. Shalit

re:

46 rappmandu  10/26/07 5:58:47 pm reply quote

Ball-peen hammer referenced twice in one day.

What's up with that?

/

47 EC Marm  10/26/07 5:58:55 pm reply quote

re: #28 Geepers

The liberals having tamped down any dissension from lefty idealism with outraged cries of "racist-bigot-Nazi" is something akin to never allowing the underbrush to burn off. It's gonna be ugly when it finally happens.


Nice analogy. Not at all like the tired cliches that we daily have spoon fed from the press.

48 PETN Sandwich  10/26/07 5:59:21 pm reply quote
I am afraid of the Islamization of Europe. But I am also, and even more, afraid of the rise of the extreme right. In fact, one of my main fears is that people will get so fed up by the political correctness being shoved down their throats that they’ll go from liberalism to the other extreme. As a Jew, I have no illusions - the Muslims might be kicked out first, but the Jews will suffer horribly when that happens.

The rise other "the other extreme" has been predicted for years in europe... something to do with anti-nationalist leftists' support for unfettered immigration of enclaved and hostile aliens.

49 Render  10/26/07 5:59:46 pm reply quote

re:

50 bald headed geek  10/26/07 6:00:07 pm reply quote

The irony to me is that the Islamofascists are so often allied with the neo-Nazi far right. After all, they share an identical hatred of Jews, and as the old saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend...........

BHG

51 JohnSteele  10/26/07 6:00:07 pm reply quote

The thing that concerns me is that if neo-Nazis become associated with the fight against Islamism, good people will turn against the fight against Islamofacism out of PC fear of guilt-by-association. And then the Islamists win.

52 sbmama  10/26/07 6:00:13 pm reply quote

Great piece. This reminds me of Mark Steyn's thesis in America Alone. I can't help but think that this will end violently in Europe when people get appropriately fed up with the multiculti overreach. When that happens, Jews (of which I am one) and other minorities get caught in the crossfire. I refuse to go to Europe anymore because what is going on there is scary. Last time I was in Paris, I couldn't wait to leave. OK, whatever you may think of the French, but I never totally felt safe or welcome. I'd like to believe these people deserve what they get, but can't help worrying about the spillover.

53 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  10/26/07 6:00:15 pm
54 MandyManners  10/26/07 6:00:27 pm reply quote

re: #41 msdixie

Please, let's not spat!

Allies during war might never be friends in peace. Ideological purity might look good on paper but doesn't help on the ground.

The enemy is happy with this discord and grows bolder with each each tap on our keyboards. We are wasting precious mind-time.

United we stand, divided we fall. Trite, but true.

I won't stand with Nazis. Ever. The Haj and Hitler ensured that.

55 NoSpam  10/26/07 6:01:02 pm reply quote

re: #44 bonz

The poor thing still believes the Nazis were of the right. They werw right of the USSR and weren't labeled fascist until they attacked the USSR.


"There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will."

Guess who?

Bolshevism, pure Bolshevism!

--C. Montgomery Burns

I do wish people would do away with the trivial and often erronious distinctions of 'right and left' but unfortunately we're stuck with them.

56 Dr. Shalit  10/26/07 6:01:04 pm reply quote

re:

57 sushi  10/26/07 6:01:41 pm reply quote

The extreme Left and the extreme Right are linked by their totalitarian ideologies. At present there is no organized Nazi-or 'far right' party anywhere in Europe, there is virually no country where the percentage of 'far right' (what an idiotic, misleading term) exceeds 3 or 4 %.

But the percentage of those who are afraid being called 'racist/right-wing/Nazi/Xenophobe/bigot/white supremacist is probably over 90%, because of our new found PC-religion.

This is what spooks everyone and that's what stifles debate.

58 duke6855  10/26/07 6:02:17 pm reply quote

Rudy's now calling for aid to be cut off from Yemen for them releasing the USS Cole (suspected) bomber - the middle east will shake in their little space boots if he gets elected.

59 Jimmy The Clam  10/26/07 6:02:19 pm reply quote

re: #56 Dr. Shalit

re:

60 Cy_Kologis  10/26/07 6:02:35 pm reply quote
I am afraid of the Islamization of Europe. But I am also, and even more, afraid of the rise of the extreme right. In fact, one of my main fears is that people will get so fed up by the political correctness being shoved down their throats that they’ll go from liberalism to the other extreme.

I have been arguing this for while now. Jacques Maritain, the French philosopher, wrote in the late 30s that Nazism was the revolt of the common man against the intellectual. The idea, as I understand it, was that the hyper-rationalist intellectuals (essentially Gnostics) kept insisting that their way of thinking and attendant policies would bring about heaven on earth. The common man, sensing that things were not going the way that was promised, revolted and went in the opposite direction towards the absurd and irrational.

At the present time, we are being promised a paradise of multi-culturalism by the intellectual left. As it is becoming clearer and clearer that the promised paradise will never come, correctional forces are beginning to build.

The problem is that in Europe, all reasonable societal correction to the present problem is being suppressed by the left, resulting in a situation not unlike steam building up in a boiler without release. This just sets up the condition that there will not be a rational correction but rather a violent reaction. When that happens, a lot of innocent people, Muslims included, will be adversely and unjustly affected.

I sincerely hope that this eventuality will not come, but I'm afraid that it is not unlikely.

61 Jim in Virginia  10/26/07 6:02:37 pm reply quote

Paraphrased from Norman Davies Europe: A History. The Nazis and the Russian communists were first and foremost totalitarian. The Nazis said they discarded socialism for pure nationalism. The Russians said they purged nationalism for pure socialism. But the systems were more similar than diiferent- total party control, personality cults, secret police.

62 NJDhockeyfan  10/26/07 6:02:44 pm reply quote

I heard something about this the other day:

Croatian musician accused of prompting fascism booked for Cleveland

A Croatian rock musician who performs nationalist -- and some say fascist -- songs and who has drawn Nazi salutes from audience members is booked to play in Cleveland.

Milosh Milenkovich, past president of the Serbian Unity Congress, vowed to protest the appearance of Marko Perkovic, who performs under the name "Thompson," scheduled for Nov. 9 at the Slovenian National Home on St. Clair Avenue.

"This glorification of fascism is repulsive to any person who stands for the principles of democracy," said Milenkovich, who lives in Cleveland. "They have a song recalling a death camp called Jasenovac, where a million Serbs perished. They glorify genocide. They are nothing more than Croatian Nazis."

Thompson was booked by the Croatian Youth Club of Cleveland. Member Ante Slavic defended the performer, who picked up the name "Thompson" because it is said he carried a Thompson submachine gun when he fought in the 1991 Balkan War.

63 Killgore Trout  10/26/07 6:02:46 pm reply quote

I was expecting Chares' talking this topic to cause more of an uproar. The discussion here has been very lively but not many other blogs are talking about it and it's not attracting a whole lot of traffic on the referrers list.

64 EC Marm  10/26/07 6:02:52 pm reply quote

re: #49 Render


At some point earlier this afternoon there was a glitch of sorts that briefly allowed me to rate my own comments.


I just dinged you down -1 so now you're even steven. Feel free to reciprocate. I don't take dings personally.

65 Glen Wishard  10/26/07 6:02:58 pm reply quote

This is important, and I think lgf has sounded this theme many times over the years.

If the center would stand up for some pretty basic principles of civilization and stop pretending Islamic fascism doesn't exist, groups like Vlaams Belang would be rendered marginal and irrelevant overnight.

66 NoSpam  10/26/07 6:03:17 pm reply quote

re: #54 MandyManners

re: #41 msdixie


Please, let's not spat!

Allies during war might never be friends in peace. Ideological purity might look good on paper but doesn't help on the ground.

The enemy is happy with this discord and grows bolder with each each tap on our keyboards. We are wasting precious mind-time.

United we stand, divided we fall. Trite, but true.


I won't stand with Nazis. Ever. The Haj and Hitler ensured that.


An enemy of my enemy is my friend, unless he's a slimy racist jerk, in which case he can kiss my big hairy a**

67 Thanos  10/26/07 6:03:19 pm reply quote

At the bottom of the political flaw in of the Euro right is tribalism masquerading as nationalism. Translating tribalism to politics always fails, although it might get you short term power and gain. History is replete with many instances of this. However both sides in this long war have flaws based on tribalism that will make them losers over time if amplified. (see Anbar Awakening...)

Party platforms based on social/cultural issues rather than long term principles of individuality fail. So falls the caliph, so falls the Viking king.

It's a modern world, like it or not tribalists.

68 Charles  10/26/07 6:04:15 pm reply quote

re: #49 Render

re: #25 Charles

At some point earlier this afternoon there was a glitch of sorts that briefly allowed me to rate my own comments.

KNOWN?,
R

A small bug, now squashed.

69 Render  10/26/07 6:04:24 pm reply quote

re:

70 Sharmuta  10/26/07 6:04:40 pm reply quote

re:

71 NoSpam  10/26/07 6:04:57 pm reply quote

re: #59 Jimmy The Clam

re: #56 Dr. Shalit


re:
72 Killgore Trout  10/26/07 6:04:58 pm reply quote

re:

73 Dr. Shalit  10/26/07 6:05:13 pm reply quote

re:

74 Thanos  10/26/07 6:05:35 pm reply quote

re: #21 Killgore Trout

I was a little confused about the two picture she posted. I assume the second one shows the VB "military wing".


Exactly, Filip stated in the interview with Atlas that VB has "militants" ... he referred to them as "our militants".

Not activists, not supporters -- militants.

75 SecretInternetDoucheBag  10/26/07 6:05:59 pm reply quote

re: #39 MandyManners

re: #10 dogbreath


How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

Setting up the L/R dichotomy is one of totalitarianism's/Stan's greatest feats ever.

I would figure that is because anyone to either extreme, left or right, that views himself as totally without error in his or her ideology can easily be totalitarian and stiffle any dissent. They are so convinced they are right that anyone that disagrees with him is not just wrong but evil. (compare the modern day leftist opinion of President Bush to 1920's German opinion of Jewish people) When you are fighting "evil" any action becomes not only morally correct, but necessary.

76 zombie  10/26/07 6:06:47 pm reply quote

re:

77 bald headed geek  10/26/07 6:06:57 pm reply quote

re:

78 MandyManners  10/26/07 6:07:18 pm reply quote

re: #63 Killgore Trout

I was expecting Chares' talking this topic to cause more of an uproar. The discussion here has been very lively but not many other blogs are talking about it and it's not attracting a whole lot of traffic on the referrers list.

Maybe people are leery of the topic and expected in-fighting, KT.

79 Racer X  10/26/07 6:07:32 pm reply quote

re: #70 Sharmuta

re: #63 Killgore Trout

There are other blogs?

LOL!

None like this.

Keep the gates closed boss, there be freaks outside!

80 littleoldlady  10/26/07 6:07:48 pm reply quote

re:

81 Killgore Trout  10/26/07 6:08:37 pm reply quote

re:

82 MandyManners  10/26/07 6:08:44 pm reply quote

re: #65 Glen Wishard

This is important, and I think lgf has sounded this theme many times over the years.

If the center would stand up for some pretty basic principles of civilization and stop pretending Islamic fascism doesn't exist, groups like Vlaams Belang would be rendered marginal and irrelevant overnight.

Many people consider VB to be filled with fascists.

83 Dr. Shalit  10/26/07 6:08:57 pm reply quote

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84 Jim in Virginia  10/26/07 6:08:59 pm reply quote

littleoldlady!

85 Charles  10/26/07 6:09:18 pm reply quote

re: #65 Glen Wishard

This is important, and I think lgf has sounded this theme many times over the years.

If the center would stand up for some pretty basic principles of civilization and stop pretending Islamic fascism doesn't exist, groups like Vlaams Belang would be rendered marginal and irrelevant overnight.

Hey Glen, nice to see you here. And as usual, you make a great point. The reason why Nazi-linked groups are gaining power in Europe is because the majority has been bludgeoned into submission by many years of heavy-handed socialist policy, and they're looking for any way out of it. It's a very dangerous situation.

For Europe. For America, not so much right now, but it's going to increasingly affect us here too. The blogs are the front line.

86 Racer X  10/26/07 6:09:40 pm reply quote

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87 taxfreekiller  10/26/07 6:09:51 pm reply quote

So, on this islamic terror problem, when do you think Tim Rusteybucket of meek the piss will have a panel of little green foot balls posters and Charles on and have them state their opinion on the matter or will he allow himself and his family to be bombed first.?
[Link: www.mtp.com...]

and ask him, and ask him about the staff of the Senate and Congress being spoiled little rich shits who learned to be liars and fraud from him and Lt. for Life John F. Kerry.
[Link: www.capitolist.com...]

just saying, pee on the msm camp fires and make them move back a bit

88 Killgore Trout  10/26/07 6:09:53 pm reply quote

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89 MandyManners  10/26/07 6:10:15 pm reply quote

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90 NoSpam  10/26/07 6:10:18 pm reply quote

re: #73 Dr. Shalit

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91 Racer X  10/26/07 6:11:38 pm reply quote

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92 albusteve  10/26/07 6:11:42 pm reply quote

re: #80 littleoldlady

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93 PETN Sandwich  10/26/07 6:12:01 pm reply quote

re: #69 Render

re: #44 bonz

A small quibble with that...

They were labeled Fascists in the early 1920's, by themselves.

[Link: www.m-w.com...]

BUNDLE
OF
STICKS,
R

"Fascist" was a slur used by Stalin against the Germans because he did not want to mention that they were fellow socialists - might confuse his socialists of what they were fighting.

94 littleoldlady  10/26/07 6:12:09 pm reply quote

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95 mama winger  10/26/07 6:12:36 pm reply quote

Right ? Left? Fascist ? Nazi?

For me the distinctive difference that I look for is this: which way leads to life as its logical conclusion? and which way leads to death?

I am against the culture of death.

96 taxfreekiller  10/26/07 6:13:07 pm reply quote

oops wrong link on
capitol list
back in a bit sorry

97 bald headed geek  10/26/07 6:13:17 pm reply quote

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98 MandyManners  10/26/07 6:13:29 pm reply quote

re: #88 Killgore Trout

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99 Dr. Shalit  10/26/07 6:13:32 pm reply quote

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100 NoSpam  10/26/07 6:14:00 pm reply quote

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101 Jim in Virginia  10/26/07 6:14:23 pm reply quote

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102 Jetpilot1101  10/26/07 6:14:27 pm reply quote

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103 NoSpam  10/26/07 6:14:36 pm reply quote

re: #86 Racer X

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104 taxfreekiller  10/26/07 6:15:03 pm reply quote

this,

[Link: www.thecapitolist.com...]

sorry

105 RememberSekhmet?  10/26/07 6:15:15 pm reply quote

re: #37 Sharmuta

Of course, the Left is using every tactic it can and labeling people Nazi's and racists is one of the simplest. But this does not mean that there is no such thing as neo-Nazis, no such thing as racists and no such thing as extreme right.

I'd say the neo-nazis, etc. revel in the over use of the terms- it's making it easier for them to hide in plain view.

Kinda reminds me of the guy who said that fascism would return, disguised as anti-fascism.

106 MandyManners  10/26/07 6:16:16 pm reply quote

re: #95 mama winger

Right ? Left? Fascist ? Nazi?

For me the distinctive difference that I look for is this: which way leads to life as its logical conclusion? and which way leads to death?

I am against the culture of death.

Was the U.S.S.R. a culture of death? If so, why did it give up the ghost? Or, did it, and the 1990s were nothing but a way for its forces to lie fallow, waiting for Putin the Plowman? It's aligning itself with Islamofascism.

107 Thanos  10/26/07 6:16:50 pm reply quote

re: #81 Killgore Trout

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