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Islam in Europe: 'This Isn't Going to Be Pretty'

Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 5:29:09 pm PDT

Here’s a very good post by Esther at Islam in Europe, on a subject that’s been ballpeen-hammered to death at LGF in the past week: Nazis!!!

This isn’t going to be pretty, so if you want to focus only on the news, feel free to skip this.

I don’t usually follow what’s happening in the Blogosphere, as I spend a lot of time reading the regular media, but in the past few days the Blogosphere has been in an uproar with accusations and counter-accusations going strong. Apparently it started with Little Green Footballs accusing several right wing groups of being racist and of hitching up their agenda to the anti-Jihadi movement.

I debated whether to jump into the fray. My blog focuses on translating news, not on inter-blog debates, but most important - I’m afraid of the reactions. On the other hand, maybe this is a good reason to speak up.

I do not want to get into the debate about any specific group being “racist”. What bothers me more is the idea that bloggers can’t speak, or express an opinion, because they stepped on somebody else’s feet. Because they expressed a valid fear.

I am afraid of the Islamization of Europe. But I am also, and even more, afraid of the rise of the extreme right. In fact, one of my main fears is that people will get so fed up by the political correctness being shoved down their throats that they’ll go from liberalism to the other extreme. As a Jew, I have no illusions - the Muslims might be kicked out first, but the Jews will suffer horribly when that happens.

I had blogged in the past about the anti-mosque protests in Cologne, and what struck me most was an interview with one “ordinary German” : “I’m just afraid of fundamentalist Muslims gaining more and more ground,” says one female shop assistant. But it’s hardly possible to voice this fear because of the risk of immediately being labeled right-wing, she says.

Indeed. Of course, the Left is using every tactic it can and labeling people Nazi’s and racists is one of the simplest. But this does not mean that there is no such thing as neo-Nazis, no such thing as racists and no such thing as extreme right.

Going back to the Cologne protests: neo-Nazi groups are hijacking the protests. All it takes is a couple of skinheads to show up, wave banners and the entire demonstration changes its tone from one of serious concern about Islamizatoin to a racist one.

Can anybody guess which picture was featured on the news and which on the Pro-Cologne site?

Now, why am I writing all this? Because what gets me really upset is hypocrisy. Little Green Footballs named Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats as racist groups. Brussels Journal, in return, accused LGF of being “more PC than thou“. But didn’t Vlaams Belang/Brussels Journal do exactly the same thing, just less than two months ago?

On September 11th three groups from the UK, Denmark and Germany, organized a demonstration in Brussels against Islamization under the umbrella organization Stop the Islamization of Europe. The demonstration was banned by the mayor of Brussels, and Dr. Ulfkotte, the German organizer, went to court.

Ulfkotte got support from Vlaams Belang, and Brussels Journal followed the story very closely. That is.. until Ulfkotte decided he’s had enough. Then he became the enemy. He was accused of planning it all in advance to discredit Vlaams Belang and the demonstration.

Brussels Journal discovered that Ulfkotte had written a book about the French riots where he had brought up the claim that the Mossad was responsible for them. In other words, Brussels Journal accused a fellow anti-Jihadi, an until-recently valued member of the group, of being a paranoid anti-Semitic. (Btw, this piece of info was freely available to Vlaaams Belang in the days when the demonstration was planned and when the court was petitioned. A simple internet search brings it up.)

The claim now floating about Little Green Footballs giving ammunition to CAIR and their ilk are ridiculous. But they’re ridiculous most for the underlying premise which is that a right wing blogger can’t agree with Muslims. This claim is ridiculous because there are quite a few anti-Muslim groups who agree with Muslims, in their anti-Semitic views. Hitler salutes, kill the jews.. does that sound at all familiar? There are quite a few radical Islamists and right-wingers who would be at home with those sentiments.

Read the whole thing...

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955 comments

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1 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:32:09pm
2 WrathofG-d  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:32:56pm

Great so our choices are Nazis on the one hand, and Islamists on the other?

Great so pretty much no matter what we do we end up with a Fascist Europe (again!)

3 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:33:34pm

Thank you, Ester.

4 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:34:16pm

Yeah these inter blog spats always end up sounding like people talking crap to eachother in an AOL chat room or while playing a hard core game of Risk in a public library.

5 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:36:22pm

re: #4 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Yeah these inter blog spats always end up sounding like people talking crap to eachother in an AOL chat room or while playing a hard core game of Risk in a public library.

This isn't just an "inter blog spat." It's being noticed at some pretty high levels of all of these parties, in Europe and the US.

6 dmandman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:37:46pm

OT! I asked this just before the topic change so I am going to repost:

But what the heck is going on? I just read about another skipper being sacked. This time for an engine fire on an Aegis DDG on a port call to Japan. This at least one other surface ship recently and the 4 sub skippers I just read about seems like a real shake up in the field command within the Navy. The last time I can recall historically for that much movement was right after Pearl Harbor. Is there something going on behind the scenes?

7 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:39:23pm
8 mbruce  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:39:28pm

Like I have said before, the Left/Right diametric is not a straight line, it is more of a horseshoe shape, and the extremes almost meet in the middle.

9 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:40:50pm

re: #4 SecretInternetDoucheBag

This is a very important discussion to have. The decisions we make about who to align ourselves with and how to conduct ourselves determine if we're going to succeed against the Islamists.

10 dogbreath  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:40:51pm

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

11 Ezekiel2517  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:41:03pm

She's distorted a statement of "misgivings" into calling those political parties racist groups.

12 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:41:12pm

re: #7 song_and_dance_man

Shocking to find Charles' critics are hypocrites, isn't it?

13 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:41:33pm

Charles speaks true, this is touching politics globally. I've been surfing.

14 BeerForMyHorses  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:42:22pm

Maybe the Nazis are in league with the Muslims and are only pretending to be against Jihadis in order to discredit the rest of us. Remember, the Hitler/Muslim Brotherhood connection.

15 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:43:29pm
What bothers me more is the idea that bloggers can't speak, or express an opinion, because they stepped on somebody else's feet. Because they expressed a valid fear.

Kind of defeats the purpose of blogging, imo.

16 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:43:35pm

re: #10 dogbreath

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.


I'va always wondered that too.

17 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:45:19pm

It's very important to note the section about the SIAD "attacks" that everyone has been linking to....

Stop the Islamization Denmark (SIOD) had organized a protest in Copenhagen this past Sunday. On their way to the protest the organizers were brutally attacked, apparently not by Muslims but by left-wing radical anarchists. (see here, here and here)

The claim is that this wasn't mentioned in the Danish media, but both the demonstration and the attack were mentioned on the Jyllands Posten, Politiken and DR sites. The identity of the attackers might not have been mentioned, and in that sense the media were remiss.

A right wing extremist group was attacked by left wing extremists in a city which in the past few months had seen hundreds of left wing extremists riot. Hundreds of leftists and anarchists have been battling the police, using tactics that wouldn't have embarrassed any Intifada rioter. And now anti-Jihadi blogs want to know why this specific incident wasn't made into a more serious item. Clashes between right wing and left wing extremists are not that rare and are usually very violent.

The clashes between extremist groups are commonplace, this one was minor.

18 Racer X  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:46:19pm

My dad used to tell me to be very particular of who you associate with. If you are standing with a group of kids and one throws a rock at a cop car - you will all go to jail.

Guilt by association is a flag waved more often lately on both sides of politics.

Every time there is one truther banner at a rally guess what happens? They all get tainted.

Same for ONE Nazi.

19 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:46:38pm

re: #10 dogbreath

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

By the rest of the world accepting UNQUESTIONINGLY the vocabulary and narrative of the hard-Left.

After the devil convincing the world that he didn't exist, I would say the communists and socialists pretending that the Nazis were their polar opposites would be the second greatest deception of all time.

20 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:46:47pm

re: #13 Thanos

Charles speaks true, this is touching politics globally. I've been surfing.

Can you give me some links? I have not heard about this except for this post by Charles, at least that I remember.

21 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:47:27pm

I was a little confused about the two picture she posted. I assume the second one shows the VB "military wing".

22 konservo  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:48:16pm

re: #8 mbruce

Like I have said before, the Left/Right diametric is not a straight line, it is more of a horseshoe shape, and the extremes almost meet in the middle.

According to Hannah Arendt, if I remember correctly, the extreme Left and the extreme Right are linked by their totalitarian ideologies.

23 Orbit Rain  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:48:31pm

...well this is what I have to say...

There is one America, and a BUNCH of other countries out there...all you other "high level" people focus on us, while there are an TON of other languages out there to follow...sorry...so many, too many to follow sometimes...most of the time...no...ALL OF THE TIME...that's why I think there is the truth that knows and the infinite number of lies that can surround it are too many to follow...why the hell would I read KOS?. .; . a pack of liars screaming for attention...

as far as racism goes...

we're all children of the same creator...

just some of our cousins are brainwashed to hate

some of us see our souls as bodies...act like animals, unable to control their lust...go tell our dear friends they can tell their boys to behave as a civilized man around women...tell them that their mind controls their body, not the other way around...free your women from their cozy slavery...

...unless you prefer idiots for children, bloodthirsty madmen released from *your* gardens...

my dear friends

my brothers

don't make me kill you...

as I would hope mine would kill me

24 Stinky Beaumont  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:49:26pm

That new armor plating's almost finished, boss. Looks like you're gonna need it.

25 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:50:52pm

Can we put a rush order on that, Stinks? I miss my balls.

26 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:51:25pm

re: #24 Stinky Beaumont

Be sure to sand down all the sharp edges.

27 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:51:33pm

re: #20 SecretInternetDoucheBag

re: #13 Thanos


Charles speaks true, this is touching politics globally. I've been surfing.

Can you give me some links? I have not heard about this except for this post by Charles, at least that I remember.

With a little Googling you will find a treasure trove of stories about this. I looked around last night and was amazed how much is out there.

28 Geepers  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:52:04pm
“I’m just afraid of fundamentalist Muslims gaining more and more ground,” says one female shop assistant. But it’s hardly possible to voice this fear because of the risk of immediately being labeled right-wing, she says.

The liberals having tamped down any dissension from lefty idealism with outraged cries of "racist-bigot-Nazi" is something akin to never allowing the underbrush to burn off. It's gonna be ugly when it finally happens.

29 Render  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:52:44pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I'm guessing explosive reaction armor is out as well?

ERA,
R

30 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:52:49pm

Charles' balls are back?

31 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:54:20pm

re: #30 experiencedtraveller

Charles' balls are back?

under the couch right? Just like I told ya right? huh huh...

32 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:54:27pm

There are too many media outlets basically threatening to Godwin people who don't agree with them, using the same intimidation tactics the Nazis used in persuit of their PC 'sanitization' of the media. (Of course, if you point this out you are just 'one of the [evil] sheeple')

And then the Nazi/fascist/generic extremist loonies take the opportunity to spread their hate, and the msm's point to them to use as an 'example' of how everyone is just being bigoted...

Grumble...

33 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:54:50pm

re: #30 experiencedtraveller

Charles' balls are back?


I didn't know they were out for repair.

34 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:54:51pm

re: #10 dogbreath

"dog" -

The NAZIS were socialists when it gained following and Right Wing when it gained following. Whatever gained following was OK by them.
Their basic mistake was starting a WAR. WARS tend to be costly, bloody, and when all y'all can not win it ULTIMATELY DEFEATING. That is all.

-S-

35 nyc redneck  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:55:04pm

re: #25 Charles

i'm just reading this from pamela for the first time. i think it boils down to something simple, "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".

36 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:55:27pm
37 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:56:10pm
Of course, the Left is using every tactic it can and labeling people Nazi's and racists is one of the simplest. But this does not mean that there is no such thing as neo-Nazis, no such thing as racists and no such thing as extreme right.

I'd say the neo-nazis, etc. revel in the over use of the terms- it's making it easier for them to hide in plain view.

38 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:56:14pm

re: #31 experiencedtraveller

re: #30 experiencedtraveller


Charles' balls are back?

under the couch right? Just like I told ya right? huh huh...

Did you happen to find my car keys in there while you were searching?

39 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:56:25pm

re: #10 dogbreath

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

Setting up the L/R dichotomy is one of totalitarianism's/Stan's greatest feats ever.

40 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:57:38pm
41 msdixie  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:57:44pm

Please, let's not spat!

Allies during war might never be friends in peace. Ideological purity might look good on paper but doesn't help on the ground.

The enemy is happy with this discord and grows bolder with each each tap on our keyboards. We are wasting precious mind-time.

United we stand, divided we fall. Trite, but true.

42 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:57:52pm

re: #24 Stinky Beaumont

That new armor plating's almost finished, boss. Looks like you're gonna need it.

Does it have pretty scroll work? Did you sign it?

43 littleoldlady  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:57:58pm

re: #22 konservo

re: #8 mbruce


Like I have said before, the Left/Right diametric is not a straight line, it is more of a horseshoe shape, and the extremes almost meet in the middle.

According to Hannah Arendt, if I remember correctly, the extreme Left and the extreme Right are linked by their totalitarian ideologies.

And both extremes are antisemitic.

I guess it makes sense for Esther, living in Europe, to fear "the right" much more.

44 bonz  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:58:09pm

The poor thing still believes the Nazis were of the right. They werw right of the USSR and weren't labeled fascist until they attacked the USSR.

"There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will."

Guess who?

45 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:58:10pm

re: #34 Dr. Shalit

re: #10 dogbreath

"dog" -

The NAZIS were socialists when it gained following and Right Wing when it gained following. Whatever gained following was OK by them.
Their basic mistake was starting a WAR. WARS tend to be costly, bloody, and when all y'all can not win it ULTIMATELY DEFEATING. That is all.

-S-


I believe the term you are looking for is "scum-sucking, filthy*, opportunistic dogs"

*replace filthy with a different F word for full effect

46 rappmandu  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:58:47pm

Ball-peen hammer referenced twice in one day.

What's up with that?

/

47 EC Marm  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:58:55pm

re: #28 Geepers

The liberals having tamped down any dissension from lefty idealism with outraged cries of "racist-bigot-Nazi" is something akin to never allowing the underbrush to burn off. It's gonna be ugly when it finally happens.


Nice analogy. Not at all like the tired cliches that we daily have spoon fed from the press.

48 PETN Sandwich  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:59:21pm
I am afraid of the Islamization of Europe. But I am also, and even more, afraid of the rise of the extreme right. In fact, one of my main fears is that people will get so fed up by the political correctness being shoved down their throats that they’ll go from liberalism to the other extreme. As a Jew, I have no illusions - the Muslims might be kicked out first, but the Jews will suffer horribly when that happens.

The rise other "the other extreme" has been predicted for years in europe... something to do with anti-nationalist leftists' support for unfettered immigration of enclaved and hostile aliens.

49 Render  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 5:59:46pm

re: #25 Charles

At some point earlier this afternoon there was a glitch of sorts that briefly allowed me to rate my own comments.

KNOWN?,
R

50 bald headed geek  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:00:07pm

The irony to me is that the Islamofascists are so often allied with the neo-Nazi far right. After all, they share an identical hatred of Jews, and as the old saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend...........

BHG

51 JohnSteele  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:00:07pm

The thing that concerns me is that if neo-Nazis become associated with the fight against Islamism, good people will turn against the fight against Islamofacism out of PC fear of guilt-by-association. And then the Islamists win.

52 sbmama  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:00:13pm

Great piece. This reminds me of Mark Steyn's thesis in America Alone. I can't help but think that this will end violently in Europe when people get appropriately fed up with the multiculti overreach. When that happens, Jews (of which I am one) and other minorities get caught in the crossfire. I refuse to go to Europe anymore because what is going on there is scary. Last time I was in Paris, I couldn't wait to leave. OK, whatever you may think of the French, but I never totally felt safe or welcome. I'd like to believe these people deserve what they get, but can't help worrying about the spillover.

53 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:00:15pm
54 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:00:27pm

re: #41 msdixie

Please, let's not spat!

Allies during war might never be friends in peace. Ideological purity might look good on paper but doesn't help on the ground.

The enemy is happy with this discord and grows bolder with each each tap on our keyboards. We are wasting precious mind-time.

United we stand, divided we fall. Trite, but true.

I won't stand with Nazis. Ever. The Haj and Hitler ensured that.

55 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:01:02pm

re: #44 bonz

The poor thing still believes the Nazis were of the right. They werw right of the USSR and weren't labeled fascist until they attacked the USSR.


"There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will."

Guess who?

Bolshevism, pure Bolshevism!

--C. Montgomery Burns

I do wish people would do away with the trivial and often erronious distinctions of 'right and left' but unfortunately we're stuck with them.

56 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:01:04pm

re: #44 bonz

"bonz"

It was:

A. Hitler; or

B. von Ribbentrop

By the way - my vote is "A!"

-S-

57 sushi  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:01:41pm

The extreme Left and the extreme Right are linked by their totalitarian ideologies. At present there is no organized Nazi-or 'far right' party anywhere in Europe, there is virually no country where the percentage of 'far right' (what an idiotic, misleading term) exceeds 3 or 4 %.

But the percentage of those who are afraid being called 'racist/right-wing/Nazi/Xenophobe/bigot/white supremacist is probably over 90%, because of our new found PC-religion.

This is what spooks everyone and that's what stifles debate.

58 duke6855  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:02:17pm

Rudy's now calling for aid to be cut off from Yemen for them releasing the USS Cole (suspected) bomber - the middle east will shake in their little space boots if he gets elected.

59 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:02:19pm

re: #56 Dr. Shalit

re: #44 bonz

"bonz"

It was:

A. Hitler; or

B. von Ribbentrop

By the way - my vote is "A!"

-S-


Ron Paul!

60 Cy_Kologis  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:02:35pm
I am afraid of the Islamization of Europe. But I am also, and even more, afraid of the rise of the extreme right. In fact, one of my main fears is that people will get so fed up by the political correctness being shoved down their throats that they’ll go from liberalism to the other extreme.

I have been arguing this for while now. Jacques Maritain, the French philosopher, wrote in the late 30s that Nazism was the revolt of the common man against the intellectual. The idea, as I understand it, was that the hyper-rationalist intellectuals (essentially Gnostics) kept insisting that their way of thinking and attendant policies would bring about heaven on earth. The common man, sensing that things were not going the way that was promised, revolted and went in the opposite direction towards the absurd and irrational.

At the present time, we are being promised a paradise of multi-culturalism by the intellectual left. As it is becoming clearer and clearer that the promised paradise will never come, correctional forces are beginning to build.

The problem is that in Europe, all reasonable societal correction to the present problem is being suppressed by the left, resulting in a situation not unlike steam building up in a boiler without release. This just sets up the condition that there will not be a rational correction but rather a violent reaction. When that happens, a lot of innocent people, Muslims included, will be adversely and unjustly affected.

I sincerely hope that this eventuality will not come, but I'm afraid that it is not unlikely.

61 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:02:37pm

Paraphrased from Norman Davies Europe: A History. The Nazis and the Russian communists were first and foremost totalitarian. The Nazis said they discarded socialism for pure nationalism. The Russians said they purged nationalism for pure socialism. But the systems were more similar than diiferent- total party control, personality cults, secret police.

62 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:02:44pm

I heard something about this the other day:

Croatian musician accused of prompting fascism booked for Cleveland

A Croatian rock musician who performs nationalist -- and some say fascist -- songs and who has drawn Nazi salutes from audience members is booked to play in Cleveland.

Milosh Milenkovich, past president of the Serbian Unity Congress, vowed to protest the appearance of Marko Perkovic, who performs under the name "Thompson," scheduled for Nov. 9 at the Slovenian National Home on St. Clair Avenue.

"This glorification of fascism is repulsive to any person who stands for the principles of democracy," said Milenkovich, who lives in Cleveland. "They have a song recalling a death camp called Jasenovac, where a million Serbs perished. They glorify genocide. They are nothing more than Croatian Nazis."

Thompson was booked by the Croatian Youth Club of Cleveland. Member Ante Slavic defended the performer, who picked up the name "Thompson" because it is said he carried a Thompson submachine gun when he fought in the 1991 Balkan War.

63 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:02:46pm

I was expecting Chares' talking this topic to cause more of an uproar. The discussion here has been very lively but not many other blogs are talking about it and it's not attracting a whole lot of traffic on the referrers list.

64 EC Marm  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:02:52pm

re: #49 Render


At some point earlier this afternoon there was a glitch of sorts that briefly allowed me to rate my own comments.


I just dinged you down -1 so now you're even steven. Feel free to reciprocate. I don't take dings personally.

65 Glen Wishard  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:02:58pm

This is important, and I think lgf has sounded this theme many times over the years.

If the center would stand up for some pretty basic principles of civilization and stop pretending Islamic fascism doesn't exist, groups like Vlaams Belang would be rendered marginal and irrelevant overnight.

66 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:03:17pm

re: #54 MandyManners

re: #41 msdixie


Please, let's not spat!

Allies during war might never be friends in peace. Ideological purity might look good on paper but doesn't help on the ground.

The enemy is happy with this discord and grows bolder with each each tap on our keyboards. We are wasting precious mind-time.

United we stand, divided we fall. Trite, but true.


I won't stand with Nazis. Ever. The Haj and Hitler ensured that.


An enemy of my enemy is my friend, unless he's a slimy racist jerk, in which case he can kiss my big hairy a**

67 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:03:19pm

At the bottom of the political flaw in of the Euro right is tribalism masquerading as nationalism. Translating tribalism to politics always fails, although it might get you short term power and gain. History is replete with many instances of this. However both sides in this long war have flaws based on tribalism that will make them losers over time if amplified. (see Anbar Awakening...)

Party platforms based on social/cultural issues rather than long term principles of individuality fail. So falls the caliph, so falls the Viking king.

It's a modern world, like it or not tribalists.

68 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:04:15pm

re: #49 Render

re: #25 Charles

At some point earlier this afternoon there was a glitch of sorts that briefly allowed me to rate my own comments.

KNOWN?,
R

A small bug, now squashed.

69 Render  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:04:24pm

re: #44 bonz

A small quibble with that...

They were labeled Fascists in the early 1920's, by themselves.

[Link: www.m-w.com...]

BUNDLE
OF
STICKS,
R

70 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:04:40pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

There are other blogs?

71 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:04:57pm

re: #59 Jimmy The Clam

re: #56 Dr. Shalit


re: #44 bonz

"bonz"

It was:

A. Hitler; or

B. von Ribbentrop

By the way - my vote is "A!"

-S-


Ron Paul!


Heinrich Bimmler!

72 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:04:58pm

re: #51 JohnSteele

Yup, that's what we're looking at here. I don't want to be overly dramatic but we're at a watershed moment.

73 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:05:13pm

re: #52 sbmama

"sbmama"

When/If it "HAPPENS" in Europe - a lot of Innocent People will wind up DEAD. The result will be up to G-d, not man.

-S-

74 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:05:35pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

I was a little confused about the two picture she posted. I assume the second one shows the VB "military wing".


Exactly, Filip stated in the interview with Atlas that VB has "militants" ... he referred to them as "our militants".

Not activists, not supporters -- militants.

75 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:05:59pm

re: #39 MandyManners

re: #10 dogbreath


How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

Setting up the L/R dichotomy is one of totalitarianism's/Stan's greatest feats ever.

I would figure that is because anyone to either extreme, left or right, that views himself as totally without error in his or her ideology can easily be totalitarian and stiffle any dissent. They are so convinced they are right that anyone that disagrees with him is not just wrong but evil. (compare the modern day leftist opinion of President Bush to 1920's German opinion of Jewish people) When you are fighting "evil" any action becomes not only morally correct, but necessary.

76 zombie  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:06:47pm

re: #5 Charles

Charles, I know this is ridiculous, but I just noticed, and it is related to this discussion:

There is a "Shoes.com" ad that appears right now in the right sidebar, and the most prominently displayed boot has a sort of Germanic-style iron cross on the side. At least to a casual glance.

Any way to get that ad discontinued, or to use a different picture? It looks like the kind of boot a skinhead might wear.

I know these ads are "automatic" and beyond your control, but it's just kind of jarring seeing it there next to this discussion of skinheads.

I've emailed you the screenshot so you can see what I'm talking about.

/These computers have a way of being ironic all by themselves!

77 bald headed geek  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:06:57pm

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

A fellow hockey fan! YAY!

:-)

BHG

78 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:07:18pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

I was expecting Chares' talking this topic to cause more of an uproar. The discussion here has been very lively but not many other blogs are talking about it and it's not attracting a whole lot of traffic on the referrers list.

Maybe people are leery of the topic and expected in-fighting, KT.

79 Racer X  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:07:32pm

re: #70 Sharmuta

re: #63 Killgore Trout

There are other blogs?

LOL!

None like this.

Keep the gates closed boss, there be freaks outside!

80 littleoldlady  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:07:48pm

re: #55 NoSpam

I do wish people would do away with the trivial and often erronious distinctions of 'right and left' but unfortunately we're stuck with them.

I am about to set up a 3rd party here in the U.S. and I'm thinking of calling it The Extreme Middle.

81 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:08:37pm

re: #74 Thanos

I assumed they were just young thugs but they even have their own paramilitary uniforms. The other concern with Vlaams that we haven't talked much about is that they're a separatist movement. How long before they start a civil war and how ugly will it get?

82 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:08:44pm

re: #65 Glen Wishard

This is important, and I think lgf has sounded this theme many times over the years.

If the center would stand up for some pretty basic principles of civilization and stop pretending Islamic fascism doesn't exist, groups like Vlaams Belang would be rendered marginal and irrelevant overnight.

Many people consider VB to be filled with fascists.

83 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:08:57pm

re: #61 Jim in Virginia

"JiVa."

"AND?" Seems like all y'all got it right. Totalitarianism is ALL the same, whether RED, BROWN, or GREEN! That is all.

-S-

84 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:08:59pm

littleoldlady!

85 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:09:18pm

re: #65 Glen Wishard

This is important, and I think lgf has sounded this theme many times over the years.

If the center would stand up for some pretty basic principles of civilization and stop pretending Islamic fascism doesn't exist, groups like Vlaams Belang would be rendered marginal and irrelevant overnight.

Hey Glen, nice to see you here. And as usual, you make a great point. The reason why Nazi-linked groups are gaining power in Europe is because the majority has been bludgeoned into submission by many years of heavy-handed socialist policy, and they're looking for any way out of it. It's a very dangerous situation.

For Europe. For America, not so much right now, but it's going to increasingly affect us here too. The blogs are the front line.

86 Racer X  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:09:40pm

re: #80 littleoldlady

The Extreme Middle.

I wanna join too, dammit!

87 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:09:51pm
88 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:09:53pm

re: #78 MandyManners

They might be waiting to see which way the wind blows.

89 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:10:15pm

re: #66 NoSpam

An enemy of my enemy is my friend, unless he's a slimy racist jerk, in which case he can kiss my big hairy a**

That's why I will not stand with Nazis: they're in bed with the Islamists. They might not know it yet but, they are.

90 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:10:18pm

re: #73 Dr. Shalit

re: #52 sbmama

"sbmama"

When/If it "HAPPENS" in Europe - a lot of Innocent People will wind up DEAD. The result will be up to G-d, not man.

-S-


I tend to think that these things, these kind of 'creeping crud' idealogical wars tend not to end with some grand world-war type of conflict, but with a long, drawn out whimper. The body count probably won't be high, but the toll in human suffering and loss of freedom will probably have most people living under it wishing the end had been quicker.

I think it'll be decades before Europe crawls its way out of the fog it's currently in... nI may not even see it in my lifetime.

91 Racer X  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:11:38pm

re: #87 taxfreekiller

pee on the msm camp fires and make them move back a bit

Rotating title?

92 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:11:42pm

re: #80 littleoldlady

re: #55 NoSpam


I do wish people would do away with the trivial and often erronious distinctions of 'right and left' but unfortunately we're stuck with them.

I am about to set up a 3rd party here in the U.S. and I'm thinking of calling it The Extreme Middle.

well that does it...you cant split hairs any finer than that I suppose...as impotrtant as the issue is its becoming more one of semantics to me...when some wants to harm me I dont care what you call em...where do I sign up?


wee

93 PETN Sandwich  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:12:01pm

re: #69 Render

re: #44 bonz

A small quibble with that...

They were labeled Fascists in the early 1920's, by themselves.

[Link: www.m-w.com...]

BUNDLE
OF
STICKS,
R

"Fascist" was a slur used by Stalin against the Germans because he did not want to mention that they were fellow socialists - might confuse his socialists of what they were fighting.

94 littleoldlady  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:12:09pm

re: #84 Jim in Virginia

{My Rove!}

Fire up the fundraising machine! :-)

95 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:12:36pm

Right ? Left? Fascist ? Nazi?

For me the distinctive difference that I look for is this: which way leads to life as its logical conclusion? and which way leads to death?

I am against the culture of death.

96 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:13:07pm
97 bald headed geek  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:13:17pm

re: #85 Charles

Agreed completely. The thing is, Europe is the canary in our American coal mine. What's happening there is likely to occur here at some point. We are heading down that same road. Charles, I thank you, Solomonia, Adam Holland, GM Roper, and all the other great bloggers who are fighting the good fight. You will always have my support.

BHG

98 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:13:29pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

re: #78 MandyManners

They might be waiting to see which way the wind blows.

In between the new job, The Kid and housework, I've done my best to keep track of this week's discussion. Other than the Hitler/Haj friendship and the impact on the Balkans and Southwest Asia, it's not a subject about which I know a lot.

When I first came here, one of my immediate goals was to learn more about the Haj. It's time to get out of the history and into the now.

99 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:13:32pm

re: #82 MandyManners

Mandy -

We are in basic agreement. Would that the TORIES in the UK got the message. Otherwise it will be up to the BNP and the "Soccer Hooligans."
As they say in Spanish - Que Lastima!

-S-

100 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:14:00pm

re: #76 zombie

I've seen that too, it looked more like some kind of ditzy "wannabe biker" boot to me. Didn't it also have a tall, pointy heel? (It's not displaying for me right now) I don't think it's anything to worry about...The skinheads prefer the local army surplus store to shoes.com. (I lived near one for years. Neat store, but attracted all the creepies from miles around)

101 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:14:23pm

re: #94 littleoldlady

Fire up the fundraising machine! :-)


I know some waiters in Chinatown. They should be good for a couple million.

102 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:14:27pm

re: #95 mama winger
I 100% agree. I don't care what you believe but if you believe in killing people because they are different than you, I refuse to stand with you. Yes, that includes Nazis, Islamists, Westborro Baptist Church et. al.

103 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:14:36pm

re: #86 Racer X

re: #80 littleoldlady


The Extreme Middle.

I wanna join too, dammit!


Are you a moderate extremist?

/what did I do with my Goldwater button...

104 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:15:03pm
105 RememberSekhmet?  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:15:15pm

re: #37 Sharmuta

Of course, the Left is using every tactic it can and labeling people Nazi's and racists is one of the simplest. But this does not mean that there is no such thing as neo-Nazis, no such thing as racists and no such thing as extreme right.

I'd say the neo-nazis, etc. revel in the over use of the terms- it's making it easier for them to hide in plain view.

Kinda reminds me of the guy who said that fascism would return, disguised as anti-fascism.

106 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:16:16pm

re: #95 mama winger

Right ? Left? Fascist ? Nazi?

For me the distinctive difference that I look for is this: which way leads to life as its logical conclusion? and which way leads to death?

I am against the culture of death.

Was the U.S.S.R. a culture of death? If so, why did it give up the ghost? Or, did it, and the 1990s were nothing but a way for its forces to lie fallow, waiting for Putin the Plowman? It's aligning itself with Islamofascism.

107 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:16:50pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

re: #74 Thanos

I assumed they were just young thugs but they even have their own paramilitary uniforms. The other concern with Vlaams that we haven't talked much about is that they're a separatist movement. How long before they start a civil war and how ugly will it get?

I've predicted major war or upheaval in Europe within 20 years. This is based on several factors, but mostly economic and demographic, with no heed paid to the demographics of the "Islamic Colonization." That's a blip compared to the tide that's rising against the EU.

That stated, it's much to early to pick a side, I suspect we will have to wade into WW III and save them again, but right now both sides have bad guys. Choosing sides atm would prove a grave mistake for we don't know who will fill the vacum as the coming crisis' mount.

The tribal separatists in Europe are numerous, and they all carry baggage of rights and wrongs.

108 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:16:58pm

re: #102 Jetpilot1101

but if you believe in killing people because they are different than you, I refuse to stand with you.

It even goes beyond outright evident violence. The culture of death eats away at the soul of mankind. It is the force that would rob you of your personhood.

109 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:17:22pm

re: #90 NoSpam

"No Spam" -

See your point - AND - I think it will go quicker. Let's agree to disagree about this one.

-S-

110 meMarc  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:17:41pm
111 Doug  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:17:41pm

Hmm, looks like another repeat of yet another facet of WWII: the battle between the Nazis (NATIONAL socialists) and the LEFT (INTERNATIONAL socialists) only THIS TIME, Islam has sided with the commies.

The geopolitical scene needs a good scrubbing, it's best everyone begins to show their true colors.

112 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:17:56pm

re: #106 MandyManners

Was the U.S.S.R. a culture of death?

Absolutely. It still is for the most part.

113 SkippyMoment  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:17:57pm
Little Green Footballs named Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats as racist groups.

The claim now floating about Little Green Footballs giving ammunition to CAIR and their ilk are ridiculous. But they're ridiculous most for the underlying premise which is that a right wing blogger can't agree with Muslims. This claim is ridiculous because there are quite a few anti-Muslim groups who agree with Muslims, in their anti-Semitic views. Hitler salutes, kill the jews.. does that sound at all familiar? There are quite a few radical Islamists and right-wingers who would be at home with those sentiments.

The swastika is much more frightening than the crescent because it is much more realistic.

I haven't been around much, but I've been lurking more in the past few weeks so I might not be completely up on all of LGF's positions, but I don't think LGF labeled Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats as racist, rather it questioned whether they were racist. I know the spat with Atlas' blog this past week did kick up quite a bit of Internet dust, but that doesn't mean it is LGF's position. Did I get this wrong?

Her other stipulation that "LGF was giving ammunition to CAIR and their ilk is ridiculous" is something I agree with. It is more like they exploited LGF's position for their own purposes.

As for the swastika being more frightening than the crescent because it is much more realistic, I have to respectfully disagree with her. Yes the history is very clear on what the swastika-bearing, wearing, and devoted hoards did under Hitler, but I submit the "crescent" is far more dangerous. Hitler came to his hatred of the Jews in a relatively short time, and had a short time to inflict maximum damage, but the followers of Mohamed, no, the descendants of Ishmael have a generational hatred of the Jews that has burned for centuries. That kind of fire is not as easily extinguished. I fear the crescent more. I fear it more for Israel than for myself, but as a Christian, I'm next in line on their hit list.

114 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:18:01pm

re: #106 MandyManners

The USSR never gave up the ghost. Environmentalism is simply communism under a new name.

As for Putin...why does anyone think they can trust an ex-KGB operative?

115 Promethea  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:18:25pm

re: #16 NJDhockeyfan

re: #10 dogbreath

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

I'va always wondered that too.

I read a book on the French Revolution, trying to find the answer to that question. Did not find the answer. None of the issues that face us today seem to have any real leftwing, rightwing component.

I personally see things in terms of "individual activity" versus "government activity." Health care, for example. Fire fighting, for another example.

The Islamists are just plain "loopy" "supremacists."

116 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:18:35pm

re: #99 Dr. Shalit

re: #82 MandyManners

Mandy -

We are in basic agreement. Would that the TORIES in the UK got the message. Otherwise it will be up to the BNP and the "Soccer Hooligans."
As they say in Spanish - Que Lastima!

Any way we can rejuvenate Thatcher?!

-S-

117 mj  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:19:07pm

Sorry if this was posted earlier. Just noticed it at Pamela's site:

"Stepping back. Not backpedaling. I want to clarify my position. I was wrong to say Charles was aligned with CAIR. He is in no way aligned with CAIR. In my initial post, my passion and my initial shock lead me to snark. It is the blogoshere after all. The fact that CAIR and ultra leftwing sites are on the same page as LGF on this is merely a confluence of events.

This kerfuffle (!) cannot, must not stand in the way of all of Europe. I apologize for using that word. I stand by my position. I believe the European parties we have aligned ourselves with are forthright and true and I am deeply sorry if I offended Charles. He is the quintessential anti-jihadist and does yeoman's work. And it is my fervent wish that he examine all the evidence.

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

118 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:19:27pm

re: #109 Dr. Shalit

re: #90 NoSpam

"No Spam" -

See your point - AND - I think it will go quicker. Let's agree to disagree about this one.

-S-

Okay. *shakes hands*

Either way, it won't be pretty...

119 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:19:28pm

re: #108 mama winger

...as is evidenced by Islam and the human bombs going off on a regular basis.

120 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:19:36pm

An Open Letter to Rep. Ron Paul

Dear Congressman Paul:

Your Presidential campaign has drawn the enthusiastic support of an imposing collection of Neo-Nazis, White Supremacists, Holocaust Deniers, 9/11 “Truthers” and other paranoid and discredited conspiracists.

Do you welcome- or repudiate – the support of such factions?

More specifically, your columns have been featured for several years in the American Free Press –a publication of the nation’s leading Holocaust Denier and anti-Semitic agitator, Willis Carto. His book club even recommends works that glorify the Nazi SS, and glowingly describe the “comforts and amenities” provided for inmates of Auschwitz.

Have your columns appeared in the American Free Press with your knowledge and approval?

As a Presidential candidate, will you now disassociate yourself, clearly and publicly, from the poisonous propaganda promoted in such publications?

As a guest on my syndicated radio show, you answered my questions directly and fearlessly.

Will you now answer these pressing questions, and eliminate all associations between your campaign and some of the most loathsome fringe groups in American society?

Along with my listeners (and many of your own supporters), I eagerly await your response.

Respectfully, Michael Medved

Well...we're waiting...

121 Promethea  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:20:03pm

re: #19 Jimmy The Clam

re: #10 dogbreath

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.
By the rest of the world accepting UNQUESTIONINGLY the vocabulary and narrative of the hard-Left.

After the devil convincing the world that he didn't exist, I would say the communists and socialists pretending that the Nazis were their polar opposites would be the second greatest deception of all time.

Good point.

122 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:20:12pm

re: #112 mama winger

re: #106 MandyManners


Was the U.S.S.R. a culture of death?

Absolutely. It still is for the most part.

Why did it blink before Kennedy? Why did it not--at later dates--launch all-out nuclear war?

123 cincinnatus  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:20:27pm

What happened to "Forward, March"? All this obsession with racism and nazism has caused everyone to stop and chew on their own back legs instead. The article title is right -- this isn't pretty.

124 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:20:51pm

re: #107 Thanos

Thanos -

In the "Palio" of Belgium, I suspect the Flemings to be ascendant. That is all. Draw your conclusions.

-S-

125 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:21:01pm

re: #116 MandyManners

re: #99 Dr. Shalit


re: #82 MandyManners

Mandy -

We are in basic agreement. Would that the TORIES in the UK got the message. Otherwise it will be up to the BNP and the "Soccer Hooligans."
As they say in Spanish - Que Lastima!

Any way we can rejuvenate Thatcher?!

-S-


England doesn't have the same qualms about cloning that we have, do they? We can just say it's for SCIENCE! and they will let us go ahead...

/hmmmm...

126 Geepers  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:22:26pm

SkippyMoment (#113),

Hey Skippy. Some good thoughts there. Good to see you.

127 FLLegal  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:22:27pm

Well I'm a non-Jew Christian Zionist Pro-Israel Conservative Republican. I don't have much use for Islamists or Nazis other than as fertilizer. I saw on one Nazi site, during the Israeli - Lebanon War last summer (2006), the praises of Hezbullah by Nazis on their website. So I am surprised they would drop their hatred of the Jew and turn it upon the Islamic fascists. But then again the Nazi site was an "American" hate group and not one in Europe seeing their country going to hell due to the Muslims.

What is even more amazing is how the Leftists and Socialists side with Islamic Fascism. It just blows my mind. They are so dhimmi to Islam. They will fight like hell to keep anyone reading a bible verse in school, yet fight for Ramadan cultural week and/or even the teaching of the Quran in our public schools. Deluded blind fools they are.

The in-fighting among bloggers needs to stop. As mentioned earlier, a house divided can't stand. We have an enemy far more dangerous than a bunch of Nazi's. By the way, not every right wing group is Nazi.

Europe will either fall to Islam or their will be a backlash which might just possibly swing to the extreme not only turning on Jews, but also another group as well which is increasingly being hated by the world, i.e. the Christian.

128 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:22:28pm

re: #114 Jetpilot1101

re: #106 MandyManners

The USSR never gave up the ghost. Environmentalism is simply communism under a new name.

As for Putin...why does anyone think they can trust an ex-KGB operative?

Is Enviromentalism solely a Communist cause? Doesn't it have Fascist aspects?

Hell, it's all about TOTALITARIANISM, the desire to control others that comes from a sick Ego.

129 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:22:39pm

re: #122 MandyManners

re: #112 mama winger


re: #106 MandyManners

Was the U.S.S.R. a culture of death?

Absolutely. It still is for the most part.

Why did it blink before Kennedy? Why did it not--at later dates--launch all-out nuclear war?

Because as backward as the Soviets were, they still had a soul; something that cannot be said about the current crop of muslim countries.

130 The Other Les  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:23:07pm

re: #10 dogbreath

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

Soviet Marxist propaganda.

131 hepcat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:23:08pm

I am not kidding:

Rice taps Clinton, Carter for Middle East advice

Anxious not to repeat mistakes of past Middle East peace-making, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has turned to former presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter for tips ahead of her own conference this year...

132 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:23:29pm

re: #122 MandyManners

I think the phrase back then was "mutually assurred destruction". Just because the guys at the top of the heap in USSR didn't care to die, it does not mean that theirs was not a culture of death.

Millions died in the Soviet Union at the brutal hands of communism. Not only a physical death toll, which was immense, but a spiritual death. Go to Russia -- look in their eyes. They are empty. The are like the walking dead.

133 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:23:33pm
134 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:23:36pm

re: #106 MandyManners

Putin is an opportunist. He has as much to fear from a nucular Persia as Israel. He makes money selling them weapons systems that don't work; he figures Israel or the US will stop them before they get the bomb.
Was the USSR a culture of death? I've seen estimates that Stalin's camps killed twenty million Russians (and Ukrainians, Balts, Kazakhs, etc)

135 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:23:43pm

re: #125 NoSpam

re: #116 MandyManners


re: #99 Dr. Shalit

re: #82 MandyManners
Mandy -

We are in basic agreement. Would that the TORIES in the UK got the message. Otherwise it will be up to the BNP and the "Soccer Hooligans."
As they say in Spanish - Que Lastima!

Any way we can rejuvenate Thatcher?!

-S-


England doesn't have the same qualms about cloning that we have, do they? We can just say it's for SCIENCE! and they will let us go ahead...

/hmmmm...

I don't see how organic replication can render the same mind. But, that's a subject far out of my ken.

136 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:24:32pm

re: #122 MandyManners

re: #112 mama winger


re: #106 MandyManners

Was the U.S.S.R. a culture of death?

Absolutely. It still is for the most part.

Why did it blink before Kennedy? Why did it not--at later dates--launch all-out nuclear war?


The USSR was evil but not suicidal. Iran is both.

137 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:24:54pm

re: #131 hepcat

I assume another 444 day is in our near future with that kind of leadership.

138 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:25:02pm
139 bakerboy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:25:05pm

I have been reading Thinking Like a Terrorist. The author describes the mind-set of terrorists, especially neo-Nazi groups. It hit me pretty hard how similar their thinking is to conservatives like myself, but just distorted enough to be dangerous (and ridiculously illogical).

Many of the motives and actions we ascribe to liberals, they see also, but blame them on The Jooos. That doesn't mean conservatives are wrong, however. They don't like Muslim extremists, open borders, undermining of family values, etc., but for very different reasons. That doesn't mean I am wrong for disliking the same things, however. That would mean that if Nazis eat toast, I shouldn't eat toast or I would be agreeing with a hate group. Ridiculous, right?

But look out for this argument from the Left. "Conservatives and Nazis agree that toast-eating rituals are healthy! Thank God liberals eat tofu! Experts agree that eating toast just a thin hair removed from complete Nazi craziness!"

I hope this is lucid.

140 EC Marm  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:25:10pm

re: #76 zombie

There is a "Shoes.com" ad that appears right now in the right sidebar, and the most prominently displayed boot has a sort of Germanic-style iron cross on the side. At least to a casual glance.


The 'iron cross' is a topic that an entire book could be written about. The design was from the late 1800s, iirc.
It was initially awarded to German soldiers after WWI. In fact, there were more than a few Jewish soldiers who were awarded the iron cross and went off to the concentration camps proudly wearing them.
But it later became a symbol of the Nazis and the use of it is still banned in some European countries.

141 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:25:29pm

The German Nazis were neither "left" nor "right". They were pigs and monsters who would use any ideology--including occult craziness--to grab as much power as possible. It's a mistake to ascribe any kind of ideology to them except the ideology of naked opportunism.

142 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:25:33pm

re: #114 Jetpilot1101

re: #106 MandyManners

The USSR never gave up the ghost. Environmentalism is simply communism under a new name.

As for Putin...why does anyone think they can trust an ex-KGB operative?


Right now in the news Putin is likening the Missile defense bases planned for Chechoslovakia and Poland as equivalent to the Cuban Missile Crisis. He's blatantly wrong, but to the uneducated it might ring true.

143 Promethea  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:26:05pm

re: #58 duke6855

Rudy's now calling for aid to be cut off from Yemen for them releasing the USS Cole (suspected) bomber - the middle east will shake in their little space boots if he gets elected.

Another reason to like Rudy.

144 dogbreath  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:26:14pm

re: #122 MandyManners

re: #112 mama winger

re: #106 MandyManners

Was the U.S.S.R. a culture of death?

Absolutely. It still is for the most part.
Why did it blink before Kennedy? Why did it not--at later dates--launch all-out nuclear war?

Because the USSR was a rational player.

145 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:26:27pm

re: #134 Jim in Virginia

re: #106 MandyManners

Putin is an opportunist. He has as much to fear from a nucular Persia as Israel. He makes money selling them weapons systems that don't work; he figures Israel or the US will stop them before they get the bomb.
Was the USSR a culture of death? I've seen estimates that Stalin's camps killed twenty million Russians (and Ukrainians, Balts, Kazakhs, etc)

Taking the first assertion, which I HOPE is correct: Doesn't that make Putin a savvy Capitalist?

The second assertion: Why doesn't our academic culture shout that from the top of the ivy-covered walls? I'll tell ya': GREAT, GALLOPING GRAMSCIA WHORES!

146 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:26:46pm

Did you know that the average life span for a man in
Russia is something like 52?

52


Alcoholism, suicide, aids, general neglect, fetal alcohol syndrome, lack of basic hygiene. The place is a sewer. All in the name of the death cult of communism.

147 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:27:03pm

re: #141 Charles

The German Nazis were neither "left" nor "right". They were pigs and monsters who would use any ideology--including occult craziness--to grab as much power as possible. It's a mistake to ascribe any kind of ideology to them except the ideology of naked opportunism.

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner! :)

148 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:27:09pm
149 razorbacker  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:27:12pm

You are certainly judged by the company that you keep. But that doesn't mean that you never keep company with those with who you have basic disagreements.

For example, during the actual fighting of WWII we allied with the USSR. But the echoes of the guns hadn't died out before we were accepting the Germans to our side in the Cold War.

The American Civil War was a bloody affair. But almost as soon as it ended Southerners were enlisting in the American army.

America allies with some unsavory folks in the Middle East. It strains credulity to call the Saudis our friends, but they are, for now, allies. Egypt is an ally, but are Egyptians our friends? How about South Korea? As the Korean War era population dies out the younger Koreans seem to be less and less pro-American.

My point is that allies come and go. Americans can not, and should not, assume that because something is now so, so shall it always be.

150 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:27:22pm

re: #142 Thanos

Then I assume the left is eating it all up and blaming Bush for placing us on the brink of nuclear war.

151 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:27:31pm

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

Why did it blink before Kennedy? Why did it not--at later dates--launch all-out nuclear war?

The USSR was evil but not suicidal. Iran is both.

True, dat.

152 zombie  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:28:14pm

One thing we all should keep in mind:

The entire concept of a left/right dichotomy is a fairly recent invention in human history. It's one of those awful remnants of the French Revolution, like the Metric System and the Napaleonic Wars.

Prior to 1789, there was no such thing as "left-wing" and "right-wing." And at first, it was limited only to France. It took many decades for that "reality framework" to spread across the continent and eventually reach our shores. What really gave it impetus was the work of Karl Marx, which kind of gave palpable substance to the concept of "left-wing."

Go back throughout history prior to 1789, and you will search in vain for a left/right division. Oh sure, modern Marxists love to re-cast history through a Marxist lens, naming good guys and bad guys, from the Diggers to the Catiline Conspiracy, all the way back to neolithic goddess cults. But that's all a bunch of claptrap.

The left/right dichotomy was useful as a framework for around a century of so, basically from about 1880 to 2001. But as of this moment, I regard it as an outdated and useless paradigm.

The main problem with modern politics is that there are people still fighting last century's wars over last century's ideologies. Here on the West Coast, all I ever see are Stalinists and Maoists and Marxists and their ilk, gumming up the works and ruining it for everybody. But I forget that elsewhere in the world, there are people still occupying the other irrelevant extreme.

It's not that these people are polar opposites, but rather that they both live in a no-longer-extant world. In that sense, both the extreme left and the extreme right are anti-progressive. They're regressive, and they want to drag us all back with them.

153 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:28:38pm

re: #145 MandyManners

Why doesn't our academic culture shout that from the top of the ivy-covered walls?

Because half of acadamia is communist itself. They like it. They admire it. They want us to emulate it. Why would they preach against something they themselves believe in?

154 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:28:39pm

re: #122 MandyManners

Khruschev blinked, the Russians lost face. Two years later he was out.
A lot more to it than that, I'm sure. Maybe it's just that the Russians do love their children.

155 nyc redneck  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:28:52pm

re: #133 ploome hineni

lack of support/disagreement

156 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:29:18pm

re: #127 FLLegal

Communism and political Islamism are automatic allies. They both believe the ends justify the means, the state is greater than the individual, that lieing is ok in defense of your plans, that terror is a legitimate tactic. Their verges of philosophy are many, their verges in strategy are what we must watch out for.

157 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:29:19pm

re: #152 zombie

Hey I like the metric system!

158 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:29:29pm

re: #141 Charles

The German Nazis were neither "left" nor "right". They were pigs and monsters who would use any ideology--including occult craziness--to grab as much power as possible. It's a mistake to ascribe any kind of ideology to them except the ideology of naked opportunism.

True dat, too.

But, where does that leave the Soviets? Were they not opportunists?

159 Render  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:29:45pm

re: #93 PETN Sandwich

Stalin was pretty busy in 1921.

[Link: www.stel.ru...]

But he wasn't commenting on what a then somewhat obscure Italian political party was naming itself.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Note that the section which agrees with your comment is labeled "citation needed."

_itler was pretty busy in 1921 as well, taking control, by force and intimidation, of a somewhat obscure German socialist party.

TIME
LINES,
R

160 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:30:46pm

re: #131 hepcat

Makes sense. Ask Carter for advice; do the opposite.

161 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:30:59pm

re: #141 Charles

The German Nazis were neither "left" nor "right". They were pigs and monsters who would use any ideology--including occult craziness--to grab as much power as possible. It's a mistake to ascribe any kind of ideology to them except the ideology of naked opportunism.


Doesn't the influence of the occult in Wicca, paganism and the worship of Gaia make Environmentalism more Fascist that Communist?

162 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:31:17pm

re: #149 razorbacker

You are certainly judged by the company that you keep. But that doesn't mean that you never keep company with those with who you have basic disagreements.

For example, during the actual fighting of WWII we allied with the USSR. But the echoes of the guns hadn't died out before we were accepting the Germans to our side in the Cold War.

The American Civil War was a bloody affair. But almost as soon as it ended Southerners were enlisting in the American army.

America allies with some unsavory folks in the Middle East. It strains credulity to call the Saudis our friends, but they are, for now, allies. Egypt is an ally, but are Egyptians our friends? How about South Korea? As the Korean War era population dies out the younger Koreans seem to be less and less pro-American.

My point is that allies come and go. Americans can not, and should not, assume that because something is now so, so shall it always be.

except for the Israelis and Aussies I hope...

163 McNug  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:31:27pm

The dichotomy between "right-wing" and "left-wing" is a false one, and I don't really believe "the centre" is a real power at all. The political spectrum is a tall, narrow triangle.

There were three major political currents in the Western world that emerged in the 20th century: Socialism, Fascism (of which Islamism is a subset), and, for lack of a better descriptor, Republicanism (of which Libertarianism is a subset). Each one will be forever at war with the other two. Fascism was what lost WWII, Socialism is what lost the Cold war, and Republicanism is what defeated both of them. You can usually tell within twenty minutes of meeting someone which of these three he is.

Almost every political movement in every western country fits under one of these three umbrellas. Canada's conservative party is essentially Republicanist, but there is no true representative of Republicanism anywhere in European politics - only socialism and fascism in varying degrees.

Most people don't seem to actually acknowledge that Republicanism exists. Fascists frequently accuse Republicans of being Socialists (see: Stormfront), and Socialists frequently accuse them of being Fascists (see: Kos).

This is ironic, considering that Fascism and Socialism have far more in common with each other than either has in common with Republicanism, which is why guys like Molotov and Ribbentrop understood each other so well, and why the "leftist-islamist" alliance is capable of sustaining itself.

Sorry for the long post...

164 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:31:57pm

re: #152 zombie

The entire concept of a left/right dichotomy is a fairly recent invention in human history.

You are right. The terminology has very little validity anymore. That's why I like to evaluate things through the lens of Life- affirming or not.

165 Ziggy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:31:59pm

OT: [Link: www.jpost.com...]

Condi confers with Carter and Clinton before ME meeting. I'm going to puke.

166 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:32:00pm

re: #111 Doug

Hmm, looks like another repeat of yet another facet of WWII: the battle between the Nazis (NATIONAL socialists) and the LEFT (INTERNATIONAL socialists) only THIS TIME, Islam has sided with the commies.

The geopolitical scene needs a good scrubbing, it's best everyone begins to show their true colors.


It's amazing how many people don't understand the basic difference between the German socialists and the Internationale socialists. Of course the gloss was completely different, the Germans getting into all sorts of occult and bizarro historical (Aryans to Templars) creepy stuff. Of course Nazi Jew hatred tends to overwhelm, for good reasons, any other analysis. But fundamentally the difference was one of nationality versus internationality.

167 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:32:49pm

re: #150 Jetpilot1101

re: #142 Thanos

Then I assume the left is eating it all up and blaming Bush for placing us on the brink of nuclear war.

But of course. You can expect the Euro black blokers and anarchists to start marching in Europe once construction starts, and there will be rioting. Remember when Reagan positioned missiles in Europe? Remember that controlled reaction?

168 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:33:06pm

re: #154 Jim in Virginia

re: #122 MandyManners

Khruschev blinked, the Russians lost face. Two years later he was out.
A lot more to it than that, I'm sure. Maybe it's just that the Russians do love their children.

Don't Fascists love their children? That is the only thing I know of that differentiates them from Islamists. Well, their pursuit of industry does, too.

Instead of "Inshallah," they shout, "Sieg Heil."

169 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:33:34pm

re: #152 zombie

Yep, the left/right dichotomy comes from France.

That ought to tell us something.

170 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:33:44pm
171 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:34:06pm

re: #140 EC Marm

re: #76 zombie


There is a "Shoes.com" ad that appears right now in the right sidebar, and the most prominently displayed boot has a sort of Germanic-style iron cross on the side. At least to a casual glance.

The 'iron cross' is a topic that an entire book could be written about. The design was from the late 1800s, iirc.
It was initially awarded to German soldiers after WWI. In fact, there were more than a few Jewish soldiers who were awarded the iron cross and went off to the concentration camps proudly wearing them.
But it later became a symbol of the Nazis and the use of it is still banned in some European countries.

I have a few pre WWII Iron cross articles. It's a shame it has the reputation it does now, it's not an evil symbol. Neither is the swastika... But I have to keep my stuff locked up because of the people who see it and go "Durrr...Why do you have Nazi stuff?"

/it's circa 1880, dangit!

172 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:34:11pm

re: #122 MandyManners

re: #112 mama winger

re: #106 MandyManners


Was the U.S.S.R. a culture of death?


Absolutely. It still is for the most part.

Why did it blink before Kennedy? Why did it not--at later dates--launch all-out nuclear war?

Mandy -

All y'all should know better - the 1962 Missile Crisis was "fought" to a draw, thank G-d. They pulled stuff from CUBA and we pulled stuff from TURKEY. The lousy part is that we have become the de-facto PROTECTOR of the Cuban Regime since that time. AND - of course - Pres. Clinton, who had the open to re-structure or renege on that commitment when the USSR/Russia was on the BALLS OF THEIR ASS, DID NOTHING. OK I have a THING about CUBA - its called LIBERTAD!

-S-

173 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:34:19pm
Maybe it's just that the Russians do love their children.


Some. Not all. The orphanages over there are full, and they are disgusting. You don't even want to know.

174 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:35:01pm

re: #163 McNug

Don't apologize! That's as chewy and powerful as a rock's glass filled with Basil Hayden.

175 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:35:26pm

I have noticed that the comments on lgf have changed on this topic. Not many VB or SD defenders left. Let's hope this trend spreads.

176 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:35:27pm

re: #167 Thanos

I will admit I was a little young back then but yes, I do remember the hackles he raised over there.

What boggles my mind is why the left can't get it through their thick skulls that Bush IS NOT running for reelection. Bush isn't going to be around in 2 years so why are they hell bent on making sure he doesn't get reelected?

/rhetorical

177 Promethea  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:35:31pm

re: #107 Thanos


I've predicted major war or upheaval in Europe within 20 years. This is based on several factors, but mostly economic and demographic, with no heed paid to the demographics of the "Islamic Colonization." That's a blip compared to the tide that's rising against the EU.

That stated, it's much to early to pick a side, I suspect we will have to wade into WW III and save them again, but right now both sides have bad guys. Choosing sides atm would prove a grave mistake for we don't know who will fill the vacum as the coming crisis' mount.

The tribal separatists in Europe are numerous, and they all carry baggage of rights and wrongs.

I doubt that the U.S. will fight in Europe again. The Europeans are going to have to do their own fighting.

178 littleoldlady  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:35:38pm

re: #149 razorbacker

Thank you for giving me an opening to ask a question I've been pondering.

Has there ever been a single instance of that kind of RealPolitik NOT coming back to bite us in the a**?

179 sushi  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:36:03pm

re: #19 Jimmy The Clam

How did Nazis ever become known as “right wing”? Nazis were socialists.

Yes, they were definately to the left. A totalitarian system that nationalizes industry, holds the collective over the individual, that produces a 'Volkswagen' etc. and helps women to produce a master race is a socialist, collectivist system. Hitler was not so different from Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot or Chavez. These totalitarian swine all have the same traits.

180 zombie  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:36:39pm

re: #149 razorbacker

The history of American policy is a history of terrible dilemmas, of choosing one tyrant over another, of making allies of people who hate us one smidgen less than they do their enemies. And then switching allegiances and dropping allies like a hot potato at exactly the right moment. Just ask General Noriega, Stalin, Saddam Hussein.

I'm more and more convinced that outside of the United States, there are very few good guys at all. Our only choice is to tiptoe delicately through the political minefield known as Planet Earth.

181 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:36:55pm
182 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:37:08pm

re: #173 mama winger

Maybe it's just that the Russians do love their children.

Some. Not all. The orphanages over there are full, and they are disgusting. You don't even want to know.

Oh, and the rest in Eastern Europe. And, China!

183 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:37:37pm

re: #169 Charles

re: #152 zombie

Yep, the left/right dichotomy comes from France.

That ought to tell us something.

I used to make a joke in high school when the french revolution came up about how pretty much all bad things could be traced back to the french revolution.

The more I know, the more the joke comes true, the sadder I get...

184 zombie  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:37:43pm

re: #157 Jetpilot1101

re: #152 zombie

Hey I like the metric system!

Don't get me started! I could write a book about the inherent evil of the metric system (and I may already have).

185 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:38:55pm

re: #152 zombie

One thing we all should keep in mind:

The entire concept of a left/right dichotomy is a fairly recent invention in human history. It's one of those awful remnants of the French Revolution, like the Metric System and the Napaleonic Wars.

Prior to 1789, there was no such thing as "left-wing" and "right-wing." And at first, it was limited only to France. It took many decades for that "reality framework" to spread across the continent and eventually reach our shores. What really gave it impetus was the work of Karl Marx, which kind of gave palpable substance to the concept of "left-wing."

Go back throughout history prior to 1789, and you will search in vain for a left/right division. Oh sure, modern Marxists love to re-cast history through a Marxist lens, naming good guys and bad guys, from the Diggers to the Catiline Conspiracy, all the way back to neolithic goddess cults. But that's all a bunch of claptrap.

The left/right dichotomy was useful as a framework for around a century of so, basically from about 1880 to 2001. But as of this moment, I regard it as an outdated and useless paradigm.

The main problem with modern politics is that there are people still fighting last century's wars over last century's ideologies. Here on the West Coast, all I ever see are Stalinists and Maoists and Marxists and their ilk, gumming up the works and ruining it for everybody. But I forget that elsewhere in the world, there are people still occupying the other irrelevant extreme.

It's not that these people are polar opposites, but rather that they both live in a no-longer-extant world. In that sense, both the extreme left and the extreme right are anti-progressive. They're regressive, and they want to drag us all back with them.


Exactly. There are several politcal axes you can measure with --

Liberty vs Statism
Dynamism vs Stasism
Reason vs Irrationalism

Here's the famous Pournelle axes, if you add Dynamism vs stasism as a third dimensional line, then you might actually have a true picture of where political parties lie. Being at the ends of any of the lines generally results in disaster for the people following.

186 dogbreath  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:39:31pm

re: #141 Charles

The German Nazis were neither "left" nor "right". They were pigs and monsters who would use any ideology--including occult craziness--to grab as much power as possible. It's a mistake to ascribe any kind of ideology to them except the ideology of naked opportunism.

I disagree. Life itself is the fullest expression of naked opportunism. What’s wrong with opportunism? And just calling them bad names actually makes them seem appealing to a lot of morons. “Hmm, if everybody says they’re bad, then sign me up.” Nazis were tribalists. They attempted to impose tribal morality on a nation. In the language of many tribes, the word for human being is the name of the tribe. Others are not human.

187 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:39:47pm

I'm about to throw in the towel on the L/R-C/F debate and declare the enemies of civilization to be adherents to Satanism, and not in the conventional sense.

188 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:40:11pm
189 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:40:18pm
190 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:40:37pm

So far the real neo-nazis have overwhelmingly been on the "anti-war", "anti-American" and "anti-zionist" side. Remember that people like Jorg Haider and Jean Marie Le Pen visited Saddam Hussein in a show of support shortly before the war. The Nationaldemokratische Partei (NDP) was carrying "Kein Blut fur Ol" flags.

See also Krude Allianz, Das arabisch-islamistische Bündnis mit deutschen und osterreichischen Rechtsextremisten.

191 NoSpam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:40:53pm

re: #182 MandyManners

re: #173 mama winger


Maybe it's just that the Russians do love their children.

Some. Not all. The orphanages over there are full, and they are disgusting. You don't even want to know.

Oh, and the rest in Eastern Europe. And, China!

And China is now realizing they are in the midst of a demographic collapse and are placing absurdly tight restrictions on the families trying to adopt all the little girls that THEY rejected. Obviously growing up unloved in a filthy, state-run orphanage with the knowledge that the only reason you are there is because you were born female is preferential to being adopted out to foreigners...

192 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:41:28pm
193 Cincinnatus  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:41:41pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

I have noticed that the comments on lgf have changed on this topic.
Not many VB or SD defenders left. Let's hope this trend spreads.

What did Fjordman say to you, KT? Something like "FY". To which I will add "Hooray for Vlaams Belang" and "Down with Islam"! Smoke that.

194 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:41:50pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

I have noticed that the comments on lgf have changed on this topic. Not many VB or SD defenders left. Let's hope this trend spreads.


Actually I was hoping that they would keep coming -- there is some hope for those parties, but not soon. Continued debate is usually good.

195 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:42:33pm

re: #141 Charles

The German Nazis were neither "left" nor "right". They were pigs and monsters who would use any ideology--including occult craziness--to grab as much power as possible. It's a mistake to ascribe any kind of ideology to them except the ideology of naked opportunism.

It's fashionable to call 'em fascists and right wing, but by the same token, it completely avoids the fact that they called themselves National Socialists.

The Nazi party was a melange of socio-political pablum that was designed to attract people. It was demagoguery; and it was a cult of personality that grew around Hitler.

It was a set of policies that started off innocuous enough - make the trains run on time, build the Autobahn - anything to build national pride while the Germans were facing the costs of Versailles. It quickly became militaristic and demonization of the other appeared nearly simultaneously. Jews. Gypsies. Non-aryans (of which Hitler himself fell into since he wasn't the blue-eyed blond haired prototype - which again showed just how cracked up the theories and policies were - and yet he got millions to vote for him). Millions would vote for him - and then vote themselves right out of a democratic regime into a totalitarian one.

There are many similarities with what is going on with the Islamists - political Islam.

They too have a smattering of political theories that run the gamut from socialist to fascist - and when combined with their notion that a caliphate that never existed should "reappear" and smite the infidels, it gains a whole lot of currency from a whole lot of people who see that their current situation sucks and think that this is the way to improve things.

Facts and logic don't work - the emotional appeal of political Islam is seductive - and if it weren't OBL or Ahmadinejad, it would be some other thuggish leader calling for jihad against the West.

196 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:42:38pm

re: #184 zombie

I'd like to read it. As an engineer, I am a fan of base 10 math but you may convince me.

197 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:43:36pm

Ok, OT here- the US announced major new economic sanctions against Iran yesterday. Debka says that the Iranians consider this a declaration of war.
In 1941 the US embargo against Japan threatened to stop their war machine in its tracks. Tora tora tora....
Are we ratcheting up the game of chicken? If so, why are the Democrats and Luap Nor so quiet?

198 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:44:02pm

Let's have a look at this part of the post:

Stop the Islamization Denmark (SIOD) had organized a protest in Copenhagen this past Sunday. On their way to the protest the organizers were brutally attacked, apparently not by Muslims but by left-wing radical anarchists. (see here, here and here). The claim is that this wasn't mentioned in the Danish media, but both the demonstration and the attack were mentioned on the Jyllands Posten, Politiken and DR sites. The identity of the attackers might not have been mentioned, and in that sense the media were remiss. A right wing extremist group was attacked by left wing extremists in a city which in the past few months had seen hundreds of left wing extremists riot. Hundreds of leftists and anarchists have been battling the police, using tactics that wouldn't have embarrassed any Intifada rioter. And now anti-Jihadi blogs want to know why this specific incident wasn't made into a more serious item. Clashes between right wing and left wing extremists are not that rare and are usually very violent.

This paragraph is nothing less than appalling. Who the hell decided that these people were right-wing extremists? They were a perfectly peaceful group of people demonstrating against the Islamization of their land. Groups of neo-Nazis do exist in some countries, for instance Sweden, but there are hardly any of them in Denmark for the very simple reason that Denmark, unlike Sweden, actually has a real debate about immigration and people have viable, civilized alternatives to turn to.

This wasn't a "clash between right wing and left wing extremists," it was a brutal, totally unprovoked and in fact near-fatal assault by left-wing thugs on peaceful protesters.

199 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:44:19pm

re: #188 song_and_dance_man

I don't see much room left for debate but Pamela, Fjorman, et al seem to be still happy with their new friends. I wonder if they'll eventually concede or maybe they're just stuck like that.

200 bonz  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:44:41pm

The iron cross is not banned in Germany. The swastika is banned. The Luftwaffe still has the Iron cross as its symbol

201 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:44:43pm

re: #176 Jetpilot1101

"Jet"

Cause they be 'tupid! That is all!

-S

202 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:44:45pm
203 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:44:55pm

re: #194 Thanos

Ah, just in time.

204 BenZacharia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:45:13pm

re: #122 MandyManners

Why did it blink before Kennedy? Why did it not--at later dates--launch all-out nuclear war?

Kennedy cut a deal to take the missiles out of Turkey. He didn't stare anyone down. If anything Kennedy blinked

205 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:46:03pm

re: #172 Dr. Shalit

How has the Turkish connection played out to this day?

206 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:46:05pm

re: #123 cincinnatus

What happened to "Forward, March"? All this obsession with racism and nazism has caused everyone to stop and chew on their own back legs instead. The article title is right -- this isn't pretty.

This isn't pretty either:

#914 Cincinnatus 10/24/07 10:01:19 pm reply quote report -3
[...] What was that saying, "Freedom means having nothing left to lose". Those who take on the mantle of "racist" in order to fight the war against Islam are giving away their possessions and standing in this world. They are the heroes of the struggle to come. Hopefully one day you will join them.
207 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:46:38pm
208 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:46:55pm

re: #187 MandyManners

Read C.S. Lewis' That Hideous Strength.

209 zombie  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:47:36pm

re: #196 Jetpilot1101

re: #184 zombie

I'd like to read it. As an engineer, I am a fan of base 10 math but you may convince me.

Oh, well, you're an engineer. That explains that. You're excused. For us normal people, the metric system is a form of well, (lacking a better term) state-imposed anti-humanity totalitarianism.

210 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:48:08pm
211 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:48:18pm

re: #198 Fjordman

I don't think anyone's buying that line anymore.

212 Cincinnatus  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:48:21pm

re: #206 wrenchwench

This isn't pretty either:

#914 Cincinnatus 10/24/07 10:01:19 pm reply quote report -3

[...]
What was that saying, "Freedom means having nothing left to lose".
Those who take on the mantle of "racist" in order to fight the war
against Islam are giving away their possessions and standing in this
world. They are the heroes of the struggle to come. Hopefully one day
you will join them.

Selective quote, losing the context of what was snipped off the top. Dishonest.

213 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:48:28pm

bbwic

214 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:49:03pm

re: #204 BenZacharia

There was a quiet quid pro quo. The Soviets saw that the US wouldn't tolerate the missiles in Cuba and the US saw just how serious the Soviets were.

The US withdrew its nuclear missiles from Turkey quietly - but with enough notice to let the Soviets know it was being done.

That enabled the Soviets to save face, but the reality was that for the US, the missile withdrawals didn't change much since the US missiles in Turkey were bastards to maintain and newer, longer range, and more accurate missiles were taking their place - and wouldn't need to be stationed in Turkey.

215 buckykat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:50:15pm

re: #176 Jetpilot1101
#201 Dr. Shalit
The left is obsessed with impeaching Bush because they think he's going to start a war with Iran before leaving office. They think he will do this in order to create an emergency situation so that he can suspend the election and remain in power as a dictator. They are truly deranged.

216 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:50:26pm

re: #190 Peter Verkooijen

So far the real neo-nazis have overwhelmingly been on the "anti-war", "anti-American" and "anti-zionist" side. Remember that people like Jorg Haider and Jean Marie Le Pen visited Saddam Hussein in a show of support shortly before the war. The Nationaldemokratische Partei (NDP) was carrying "Kein Blut fur Ol" flags.

See also Krude Allianz, Das arabisch-islamistische B%uFFFD mit deutschen und osterreichischen Rechtsextremisten.

Agreed, but you don't have to be a nazi to be a racial purist, and that is what Nazism is most criticized about. The Swedish party has this as one of their principles, written and released in 2003:

"The critical ingredient of a safe, harmonic, solid and supportive society is the common identity, which in turn requires a high degree of ethnic and cultural uniformity amongst the people. From this, it follows that the nationalist principle, the principle of one state, one nation, is absolutely fundamental to the Sweden Democrats’ political values. The nationalist principle is based on the concept of the nation state, that the territorial boundaries of the state shall coincide with its demographic boundaries. In its ideal form, such a society is therefore ethnically homogenous.

So if you replace the waves of Turkish and Iraqi/Sunni Baathist immigrants with Jews, or Blacks, or Burmese/Karen it makes no difference according to that principle.

217 razorbacker  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:50:43pm

Re: 162 Albusteve

except for the Israelis and Aussies I hope...

Which ones? In any free society I'm gonna find someone that I disagree with. Look at America, I manage to find someone to p*ss off most every day.

That said, I haven't met an Aussie who wasn't a blast to party with. And a genuine person.

Re: 178 littleoldlady

Has there ever been a single instance of that kind of RealPolitik NOT coming back to bite us in the a**?

Not that I can think of. But, since the alternative is to pull our heads and feet in turtlelike what are we to do? Remember J. Carter and his pious human rights stands? That worked out real well, no?

Remember, just because it is now so, doesn't mean it will always be so. The trick is determining when it is no longer so. Institutional memories are long, and seldom change in time.

My wife's great grandmother said in an oral history that the single worst day of her life was when America declared war on Germany. During WWI. She was born an American, but had a German accent till her death in 2002, at the age of 101. There are more blond, blue eyed Aryan types around Stuttgart, AR than you can shake a stick at.

218 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:50:45pm
219 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:50:56pm

Islam In Europe is one of my favorite blogs.

220 EE  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:50:59pm
I fear Islamization because it is a threat to liberal democracy, just like the radical left and the radical right. Between the different possibilities, it is much more likely that a right-wing extremist group would get to power in Europe than it is that an Islamist group would do the same. The swastika is much more frightening than the crescent because it is much more realistic.

We already know what the swastika people would do. They are interested mainly in murder, not as a means to win a war, but for its own sake and to eliminate a people. They will wipe out people for racial reasons.

The swastika people will use the fear of Islamization to bring themselves into a popular movement denouncing Islamization, which the swastika people will ride to get into power. And when they get into power, they will be vastly dangerous.

In Germany during the rise of the Nazis, the Nazis used the fear of Communism to get into power. Then they became the foremost threat to the world.

The right-wing extremists and neo-Nazis see an opportunity today to use the fear of the coming Islamization of Europe to seize power again. Letting them do that would be for Europe to jump from the frying pan into the fire.

If the non-Muslims of Europe want to prevent the Islamization of Europe, then they need to increase their birth rate. Because their population is continually declining, with a death rate that exceeds their birth rate, while the Muslim population doubles every generation.

If they cannot or will not do that, then they need to focus on bringing pressure on the Muslim world to reform its most horrific practices. The recent Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week on many US campuses aimed to do just that, putting the spotlight on horrific practices like slicing off the genitals of girs without anesthesia in order to take away any possibility of their enjoying sexual relations in their lives. There is the murder of apostates which is enshrined in Islamic law. There is the murder of gays. There is the eternal war against the kafir, with a hyperjihadism that Khomeini had revived, as well as al-Banna, Maududi, Qutb, and Azzam.

And violence from the jihadis needs to be met by a state using the armed might of the state. Europe needs to be partners with the US in fighting the global jihad.

But there is no place for empowering the Nazis to bring the world back to the Nazi threat that the world faced in Hitler's time. If the anti-jihadis in Europe cannot think of any other approach than putting Nazis back into power, then it would be better if they just left Europe and came to a safer place -- like America.

221 littleoldlady  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:51:28pm

re: #189 taxfreekiller

So, if Condi goes on National TV and to show the peace loving islamics how inclusive we Americans are she wears a full cone head burka, with full Vail on the face,,,,, but will we Americans have any way to known that she is in fact our leader or Ben Loud Ones Wife #23.

Mrs taxfreekiller is a lucky woman!

222 BenZacharia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:51:49pm

re: #209 zombie

For us normal people, the metric system is a form of well, (lacking a better term) state-imposed anti-humanity totalitarianism.

An English king imposed the system we use, a yard is the distance from some despotic kings nose to the tip of his fingers and an inch is 3 barley corns laid end to end. Don't care what the metric system is flawed in its' definition of a meter, base ten rules.

223 Promethea  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:51:52pm

My post #177 . . .

All but last paragraph should be in block quotes.

Now that I'm further along in this thread, I can see that many others also object to the use of the terms "leftwing" and "rightwing" to refer to current issues. Let's all try to write our ideas down without using these terms. Maybe we can come up with some new ones that are more useful.

BTW, "Fascist" is a truly outdated term. It refers to Mussolini's "corporate state," but that concept died out with the fall of Mussolini. The early New Deal also picked up a bit of this idea, but it also died out at the end of World War II.

224 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:52:08pm

re: #202 taxfreekiller

tfk -

That is why - quietly - "supply side" is a pacifist movement. Shushhh-
don't tell anybody! That is all.

-S-

225 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:53:23pm

re: #209 zombie
Here are some humanist measurements. Tough to engineer in, but great for language. Now I'm back to lurking with my amphora of viniferocity.


AMBER: A measure of four bushels.
AMPHORA: A measure of five gallons.
ARPENT: Two and a quarter perches; roughly 121 feet. As a measure of area it was equal to about five perches or from 0.84 to 1.28 acres.
BONNIER: Approximately ten arpents.
CARUCATE: A measurement of land, equal to a hide (used in the Danelaw), fixed at 100 acres in England in the year 1194.
CENTENUM: The number 100.
CRANNOCK: A measure equal to a Bristol barrel.
CROFT: A small piece of arable land, sometimes, but not always, next to a house.
CUBIT: A unit of length equal to 0.443 meters or 18 inches.
HIDE: A unit of measurement for assessment of tax, theoretically 120 acres, although it may vary between 60 and 240 acres. It is by custom the amount of land that can be cultivated by one eight-ox plow-team in one year.
SULUNG: A measurement of land in Kent. Equal to two hides.
YOKE: A measurement of land in Kent equal to one quarter of a sulung.
PISA: A weight of approximately one pound.
STICA: A bundle of 20 eels.

226 Elcid  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:53:38pm

Extremism, regardless from whence it came is still extremism.

In other words, it ain't good. It must be stopped, by whatever means, by the sane remaining in this world. It must be done, elsewise, no world.

227 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:53:52pm

re: #212 Cincinnatus

I guess she needs to "free her mindset", eh?

228 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:53:53pm

re: #212 Cincinnatus

re: #206 wrenchwench

This isn't pretty either:

#914 Cincinnatus 10/24/07 10:01:19 pm reply quote report -3

[...]
What was that saying, "Freedom means having nothing left to lose".
Those who take on the mantle of "racist" in order to fight the war
against Islam are giving away their possessions and standing in this
world. They are the heroes of the struggle to come. Hopefully one day
you will join them.

Selective quote, losing the context of what was snipped off the top. Dishonest.

OK, here's the whole thing, this time with linkage:

#914 Cincinnatus 10/24/07 10:01:19 pm reply quote report -3

Well, all this brouhaha shows that the Lizard army is not combat-ready. Being Dutch, I've read a few accounts of Dutchmen who have decided that creeping sharia must end and that it's time to make a stand. The pivot point is when you don't care about being called a "racist" anymore, because you realize this is just a term of abuse which the Left is going to wield at their enemies, no matter what. So the personal account of these Dutchmen (who used to be leftwingers themselves) is that at the moment of transformation they say "I am a racist". This means they can longer be hurt by the Left's slings and arrows. So they are free.

Note that *actually* being a racist is irrelevant. The point of taking the banner is that you have chosen sides in the war to come. That's how it is in Europe, where the war will be fought. In America we have the luxury of sitting back and watching from the lounge.

So when Pamela says "who wasn't a Nazi sympathizer", perhaps she, too, is making the statement of commitment -- she is no Nazi sympathizer, but, by Jingo, if that's what it takes to have to fight this war, then she'll do it.

What was that saying, "Freedom means having nothing left to lose". Those who take on the mantle of "racist" in order to fight the war against Islam are giving away their possessions and standing in this world. They are the heroes of the struggle to come. Hopefully one day you will join them.

Cc.

229 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:53:54pm

re: #215 buckykat

re: #176 Jetpilot1101
#201 Dr. Shalit
The left is obsessed with impeaching Bush because they think he's going to start a war with Iran before leaving office. They think he will do this in order to create an emergency situation so that he can suspend the election and remain in power as a dictator. They are truly deranged.


They sound like the political opportunists in Pakistan do when they talk of Musharraf.

230 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:54:34pm

re: #215 buckykat

I've seen three or four "IMPEACH HIM" signs in my neighborhood over the last week or two.
Do these people really want Cheney as President?

231 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:55:07pm

re: #195 lawhawk

The Nazi party was a melange of socio-political pablum that was designed to attract people.

Wow. Nice!

232 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:55:52pm

re: #226 Elcid

Extremism, regardless from whence it came is still extremism.

In other words, it ain't good. It must be stopped, by whatever means, by the sane remaining in this world. It must be done, elsewise, no world.

Not all things extreme are bad.

Extreme kindness.

Extreme mercy.

233 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:55:54pm
234 mickthemick  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:56:02pm

re: #141 Charles

I would argue that the Nazis incorporated elements of both left and right, but in general I agree with your point. Nazi Germany was a brutal dictatorship that centered around Adolf Hitler as its god-leader. In that sense, it was neither left nor right, just a perverted cult of personality. That's why Hitler had Ernst Roehm and other Nazis murdered in the Night of the Long Knives - they were rival "deities." That's why the SS took a personal oath of loyalty to Hitler, and not to Germany or to National Socialism.

235 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:56:29pm
236 BenZacharia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:56:37pm

Since a nice nazi thread is going, remember, nazi and fascist are not the same thing.

BBL

237 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:57:12pm

re: #209 zombie
Fair enough. Oh and I like checklists to...are those totalitarian as well?

238 DistantThunder  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:57:22pm

Let's talk about burquinis.

239 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:58:24pm

re: #228 wrenchwench

Geez.

/is the sky really falling?

240 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:58:32pm

Iron Cross on sale at Ebay.

241 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:58:33pm

re: #226 Elcid

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
242 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:58:51pm

re: #230 Jim in Virginia

Nope they are hoping they can get them both in one fell swoop and make Pelosi the next president. I think that would really stick in Hillary's craw; she'd lose her place in history.

243 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:59:10pm

Btw: FNDT ... Cognac here, Hennesey's.

244 buckykat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:59:27pm

re: #230 Jim in Virginia
The left wants to impeach Cheney along with Bush. Both of them are Nazis, doncha know.

245 munchkin  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:59:39pm

Esther's post reminds me of an old Soviet joke:

An old Armenian man lies dying and calls all his sons to his bedside..they ask him: "father, do you have any words of wisdom for us?"
and he says: "boys, take care of the Jews. Make sure they don't come to harm."
His sons asked: "father, but why?"
To which the old man answered: "because when they are done with the Jews, the will come for us."

246 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 6:59:39pm

re: #228 wrenchwench

The pivot point is when you don't care about being called a "racist" anymore, because you realize this is just a term of abuse which the Left is going to wield at their enemies, no matter what. So the personal account of these Dutchmen (who used to be leftwingers themselves) is that at the moment of transformation they say "I am a racist". This means they can longer be hurt by the Left's slings and arrows. So they are free.

I have damn near been screaming that for the last 5-years.
Do not let the words of your enemy confine your thoughts, actions, or ideas.

247 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:00:04pm
248 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:00:15pm

re: #218 taxfreekiller

tfk -

CUBA, if/when it opens up. An Independent Nation with a redeemable proud history. The land of Jose Marti, Don Tomas Estrada, Desi Arnaz, and Gloria Estefan (When SHE redeems her Mojo). Ese es todo!

-S-

249 BenZacharia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:00:16pm

The iron cross predates the nasties. AH recieved 2 in WWI when they were worth something.

250 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:00:25pm

One problem with dismissing the Nazis as fringe kooks is how perfectly their economic programs would fit with many parties in the world today. They were all about pensions, guaranteed work, and health care....

whether you needed it or not.

251 Cincinnatus  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:00:42pm

re: #228 wrenchwench

re:

252 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:01:01pm
253 Promethea  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:01:11pm

re: #180 zombie

re: #149 razorbacker

The history of American policy is a history of terrible dilemmas, of choosing one tyrant over another, of making allies of people who hate us one smidgen less than they do their enemies. And then switching allegiances and dropping allies like a hot potato at exactly the right moment. Just ask General Noriega, Stalin, Saddam Hussein.

I'm more and more convinced that outside of the United States, there are very few good guys at all. Our only choice is to tiptoe delicately through the political minefield known as Planet Earth.

Your post reminds me of another project of mine (which I could do if I spent less time on LGF)--the study of the U.S. and Nationalist China at the end of WW2. I know that for years the question of "who lost China" was a big issue, but I never paid any attention to it. It was a fait accompli.

Some politician, I forget who, said that the U.S. "is kind to its enemies and a traitor to its friends." This was said in context of U.S.-Israel relations (witness Condoleezza looking to legitimize the terror state of Philistine). Two other examples may be the U.S. undermining both the Shah of Iran and the forces of Chiang Kai-shek.

254 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:01:43pm

re: #233 song_and_dance_man

Someone named Catawba (of whom I have never heard) was marking everyone down for a while (including Charles). I guess he/she/it got bored after a while and quit. I was surprised that no one had mentioned it.

255 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:01:44pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

What bothers me more is the idea that bloggers can't speak, or express an opinion, because they stepped on somebody else's feet. Because they expressed a valid fear.

Kind of defeats the purpose of blogging, imo.


Yep if we wanted pc bs, we got the msm for that!

256 Cincinnatus  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:02:57pm

re: #228 wrenchwench

Thanks WrenchWench, hope you will consider its points.

(an odd grey bar came up on my previous attempt to reply, and blocked out the text. Most curious.)

257 sushi  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:03:03pm

The outcome of this fight will not be decided by cyber warriors, but in the streets of EUrabia...

258 David Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:03:15pm

re: #243 Thanos

Btw: FNDT ... Cognac here, Hennesey's.

VS, VSOP or XO?

259 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:03:48pm

re: #246 Jimmy The Clam

Do not let the words of your enemy confine your thoughts, actions, or ideas.

On the other hand, show some restraint in action.

/ROE, for better or worse, are what distinguishes us from them

260 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:04:19pm

One of the main reasons I'm sure Charles is on the right track through this minefield is the fact that his critics have uniformly been inaccurate. There's Pam's ludicrous original AS post, of course, but even in her retraction now she still claims that Charles is on the same page with CAIR and left-wing blogs. This is still a serious distortion. Fjordman (and I hate to say this) lost a lot of credibility with me when he said Charles had launched an "all-out attack." Absolute bullshit, that. In the same catagory is Cincinnatus' spin on Pam's implication that everyone was a Nazi collaborator in Europe ([Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] a spin so ridiculous that it cannot possibly be honest.

When your critics feel they have to lie about you to attack you, that tells you something.

261 Ashamed to be Dutch  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:04:31pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout
Hi all,
All I can say is that in fwance, the "front national" from jean-marie le pen is an openly antisemitic party, Le pen himself made a lot of his personal wealth selling WW2 era german military music...

The only "decent" European right wing parties I know of is the french MPF (De Villiers) and the Swiss UDC (Blocher, now the main Swiss political party). Most others are not openly antisemitic but numerous militants are, openly or not, usually not openly.
Though, to say that antisemites from those parties are neonazis supporters is dead wrong, though they are antisemitic and that's the problem.

Another "curiosity" is that many Americans (that's my analysis from the little US media I have access to) think the nazi problem is mainly European.
The Europeans, brainwashed by our leftist media, think the opposite... They think it's the US that's responsible because the US is allowing neo nazi / white power web sites, political parties etc ...

262 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:04:37pm
263 JammieWearingFool  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:04:47pm

Missed this yesterday. Priceless.

America Can't Win the "War On Fire"

Comments also hilarious.

Of course, even though I understand fire's anger, I certainly don't think violence is the answer. Naturally, like all decent people, I don't approve of fires raging through California. Still, I think we should at least consider containment as an option, rather than direct confrontation. Give fire a certain area of land to live as it pleases, and only react if it takes the initiative to cross borders. At that point, we should definitely consider economic sanctions.

I believe in co-existence. I think we can get along peaceably with fire if we just set our pride aside and give it some of what it wants.

After all, it's not called "the combustion of peace" for nothing.

264 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:04:52pm

re: #229 Thanos

re: #215 buckykat

re: #176 Jetpilot1101
#201 Dr. Shalit
The left is obsessed with impeaching Bush because they think he's going to start a war with Iran before leaving office. They think he will do this in order to create an emergency situation so that he can suspend the election and remain in power as a dictator. They are truly deranged.


They sound like the political opportunists in Pakistan do when they talk of Musharraf.

Thanos -

AND - they are just as half-baked/ignorant/stupid. OOPS did I actually say that non-PC stuff? "I DOO-ED IT!"

-S-

265 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:04:56pm
266 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:06:38pm

re: #259 Killian Bundy

re: #246 Jimmy The Clam


Do not let the words of your enemy confine your thoughts, actions, or ideas.

On the other hand, show some restraint in action.

/ROE, for better or worse, are what distinguishes us from them

That's actually a more complicated statement that it would at-first seem, but as a general rule of thumb I agree with you.

267 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:06:48pm

re: #265 taxfreekiller

Will Hildie Beast if elected invite Fido Castro to be her lap dog.

Fidel is dying. An interesting theatre awaits.

268 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:07:02pm

Alright fellow Lizards, I'm off to bed as the clock has struck 2200 here in Cape Cod. Have a great evening, see you all tomorrow.

Play nice with the occasional troll please, save some for me.

269 dogbreath  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:07:08pm

re: #210 song_and_dance_man

re: #186 dogbreath

Life itself is the fullest expression of naked opportunism. What’s wrong with opportunism? And just calling them bad names actually makes them seem appealing to a lot of morons.
That's not how I view life.

When I was younger I had friends whose outlook on life was much like what you stated. They looked at success as 'getting over' on others. The gotten over were called 'sokas', slang for suckers and taking advantage of the gullible was a noble effort to succeed. These type of people are no longer my friends.

If someone finds appeal in the victim just because they were called names then they belong together especially if the victim is an evildoer and attracts other evil doers because they are singled out for their evil.

When a plant grows toward the sun, that’s opportunism. Life is the response to opportunity. You choose yours, I choose mine, but we both seize opportunities. That doesn’t mean we lie, cheat and steal every chance we get. That’s a dead-end strategy, a short-term loser strategy. We weigh costs, benefits and risk, then we act. Judeo-Christian morality, based on long-term experience, shows what works as a long term strategy.

270 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:07:18pm

Killgore Trout: Is there any particular reason why you think an assault with iron bars on a 74-year-old woman sounds like clashes with right-wing extremists?

271 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:07:43pm

re: #256 Cincinnatus

I hope she never feels the need to "free her mindset". I like her the way she is.

272 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:07:46pm
273 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:09:11pm

re: #265 taxfreekiller

tfk -

NAH, she would probably prefer MELECH the Wonder Shepherd.

-S-

274 Ledger1  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:09:32pm

re: #143 Promethea

re: #58 duke6855


Rudy's now calling for aid to be cut off from Yemen for them releasing the USS Cole (suspected) bomber - the middle east will shake in their little space boots if he gets elected.

Another reason to like Rudy.

That is what I like about Rudy. He calls them as he sees them.

The Yemenis have dropped their mask and have catered to the enemy.

I think a military team should be sent to track down and liquidate the terrorists where ever they are – including in Yemen.

276 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:09:38pm
277 razorbacker  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:09:44pm
The Nazi fylfot, known as the swastika or hakenkreuz ("hook-cross") is actually a Teutonic runic ideograph called "Thorshamarr"--"the hammer of Thor." Although the Nazis emphasized the aggressive, martial implications of this symbol, its primary traditional meaning was the solar wheel and the cycle of life. The Thorshammarr, like many other runes and ideographs, was depicted in reverse (mirror-image) frequently, but its meaning remained constant. The concept of deosil (clockwise)/widdershins (counterclockwise) opposition, which occurs in European magical practice, does not apply to Teutonic runes.

The fylfot occurs frequently in native American symbology, and may be found in Northern Plains beadwork and Southwest pottery, basketry and sand paintings--usually with a deosil orientation. In Northern Plains symbolism, the fylfot is a representation of the four directions, and embodies the concept that the sacred place of two-leggeds (humankind) is at the center of the world-hoop. Even today the circular solar wheel is reproduced in hair ornaments of rawhide wrapped with dyed porcupine quills, traditional pieces which are still being made by Lakota craftswomen in the manner of their ancestors. --Jean-Marie E., Goleta, California

Pick your symbol. I'll find some ratbastard screwing it up.

278 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:09:55pm

re: #241 Jim in Virginia

re: #226 Elcid


Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

I still have my Goldwater pin from a 1963 rally, so I take his meaning as a positive expression of determination. But I will pause in moving toward extremism to consider carefully, before allying with a group that begins their statement of principles this way:


"The critical ingredient of a safe, harmonic, solid and supportive society is the common identity, which in turn requires a high degree of ethnic and cultural uniformity amongst the people."

True for some, but we are trying to move beyond that. There is a way to identify extreme Islamic ideology as a movement that wants to supplant the societies and cultures it is moving into in Europe and elsewhere, without turning into ethnicly oriented nativists.

279 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:09:59pm
#246 Jimmy The Clam


Do not let the words of your enemy confine your thoughts, actions, or ideas.

Exactly. I used to waste a whole lot of time , energy and breath trying to prove I wasn't 'a hater'. A 'racist'. A 'bigot'.

I am none of these. But you know what? Those people who called me that didn't care - they just wanted to box me into a corner and neutralize me.

I refuse to be neutralized. Now, I let my actions speak for me. Words are a waste of time when someone has decided to slander you no matter what, for their own political purposes.

280 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:10:23pm

re: #243 Thanos

Btw: FNDT ... Cognac here, Hennesey's.

pass the Ripple please

281 Racer X  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:10:33pm

Even tho I'm drinkin' I still feel a little smarter after reading this thread.

/just sayin

282 defogger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:10:37pm

re: #164 mama winger

re: #152 zombie


The entire concept of a left/right dichotomy is a fairly recent invention in human history.

You are right. The terminology has very little validity anymore. That's why I like to evaluate things through the lens of Life- affirming or not.

The paradigm should not be right vs. left. It should be RIGHT vs. WRONG.

It's a moral/religious distinction, IMHO.

283 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:10:42pm

#261 Ashamed to be Dutch

Your post confirms something I noticed after the latest intifada kicked off. Europeans, from the far Left to the far Right, seem to primarily agree on one thing: hating Jews. Another would be statism. Nobody in Europe seems to be for less government.

There are about 20 traveling neo-Nazis in the United States. They're met by hundreds of angry protesters wherever they go. We allow it to prove our free expression bona fides. Not to say there aren't more, but it's not a movement with any political impact. You can't say that about Germany (old East mostly) or Russia, to name two.

284 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:10:48pm

Cincinnatus: "consider your points?"

OK. LGF readers are welcome to do that. But please know that your "points" are utterly disgusting to me.

285 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:10:50pm

re: #261 Ashamed to be Dutch

Another "curiosity" is that many Americans (that's my analysis from the little US media I have access to) think the nazi problem is mainly European.
The Europeans, brainwashed by our leftist media, think the opposite... They think it's the US that's responsible because the US is allowing neo nazi / white power web sites, political parties etc ...

That's an interesting observation. VB was in DC this spring drumming up support and Stromfront (an American neo-Nazi site) loves them and links to their speeches and rallies. I've also seen a lot of blog comments (presumably American) eager to look the other way or to outright embrace the racist agenda.
I think there's a lot of support in America and a lot more potential support to come. I'm more than eager to shed light this now before it takes hold.

286 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:11:35pm

re: #258 David Simon

re: #243 Thanos


Btw: FNDT ... Cognac here, Hennesey's.

VS, VSOP or XO?


VSOP, alas the Paradis is gone.

287 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:12:36pm

re: #281 Racer X

Even tho I'm drinkin' I still feel a little smarter after reading this thread.

/just sayin

I've had to use a snorkle but I'm still afloat...great thread imo

288 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:12:40pm

re: #274 Ledger1

"L 1" -

"Just Do It" - and say nothing about it - Then, Now, or EVER!

-S-

289 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:12:52pm

re: #262 song_and_dance_man

Apparently Catawba didn't care for Charles referencing "balls" and dinged him as well. It makes you wonder if it's someone we've seen before in a new incarnation.

290 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:13:03pm

re: #209 zombie

I am an engineer who tolerates but dislikes the metric system because its units of measure aren't convenient. And frankly I feel bad for the math-challenged folks who like metrics because it makes the math easier for their little pea-brains. Ha.

And every time someone tell me how many kilograms something weighs I cringe because kilogram is a unit of mass, not weight. I always say if you insist on using metrics, please tell me how much it weighs in Newtons.

291 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:13:15pm

I will never have a "moment of transformation" in which I say, "Yes, I am a racist!"

That's just vile, and anyone who say that kind of thing is nuts.

Give me a reason why I shouldn't block your account right now.

292 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:13:29pm

re: #264 Dr. Shalit

re: #229 Thanos


re: #215 buckykat

re: #176 Jetpilot1101
#201 Dr. Shalit
The left is obsessed with impeaching Bush because they think he's going to start a war with Iran before leaving office. They think he will do this in order to create an emergency situation so that he can suspend the election and remain in power as a dictator. They are truly deranged.

They sound like the political opportunists in Pakistan do when they talk of Musharraf.

Thanos -

AND - they are just as half-baked/ignorant/stupid. OOPS did I actually say that non-PC stuff? "I DOO-ED IT!"

-S-

Hey, as they say.... just poop!

293 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:13:38pm

re: #282 defogger

Yes.

And when we as a culture decided to usher in the era of moral relativism, we lost our moorings. Now when you talk in terms of right and wrong, you are labeled a bigot.

294 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:14:06pm

re: #278 jaunte

We're Americans. We're mongrels, and proud of it.
Eff homegeneity.

295 razorbacker  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:14:45pm

I'm reminded of my grandfather.

"Keep your words soft and sweet,
'cause you don't know which you'll have to eat."

296 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:14:48pm

re: #282 defogger

re: #164 mama winger

re: #152 zombie


The entire concept of a left/right dichotomy is a fairly recent invention in human history.


You are right. The terminology has very little validity anymore. That's why I like to evaluate things through the lens of Life- affirming or not.

The paradigm should not be right vs. left. It should be RIGHT vs. WRONG.

It's a moral/religious distinction, IMHO.

Gagdad Bob has made some very useful statements about the 'horizontal-vertical' dichotomy. Those extremists on 'left' or 'right' who ignore the vertical and attempt to bring about a paradise here on the horizontal, have always brought about hell on earth. Don't 'immanentize the eschaton', as Buckley would say...

297 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:15:04pm

re: #270 Fjordman

I have no idea who started the altercation. It's entirely possible that the SIAD picked a fight with the wrong guys and got their asses kicked. My ass has been kicked under similar circumstances. I'm not applauding the violence against them, I'm just saying that I don't trust their version of the story. They have lied enough that I don't trust them.

298 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:15:30pm

I think there an important distinction between not caring if you are CALLED racist and not caring if you ARE racist.

299 unclassifiable  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:15:44pm

I do not like any totalitarian forms of government because ultimately the success of those systems depends on the leaders being infallible -- a trait that is not possessed by anything on this planet.

Furthermore one will find that most of the violence that is perpetrated by these regimes is cover to prop up the "godliness" of its leadership.

Additionally I view socialism to be just totalitarianism by committee.

300 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:15:57pm

re: #290 Mich-again

I have a hard time at work converting weight from pounds to kilograms. I have to do this for medicine dosage purposes. I usually go get someone else to help me. I don't want to kill some unsuspecting puppy because I stink at math.

301 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:16:17pm

re: #294 Jim in Virginia

re: #278 jaunte

We're Americans. We're mongrels, and proud of it.
Eff homegeneity.

You got an effin-amen here....

302 cpuller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:16:33pm

People need to be concerned if the Islamists and the Nazis get together. They did in WW2 and they can do it again.

303 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:16:45pm

re: #298 stranded conservative

I think there an important distinction between not caring if you are CALLED racist and not caring if you ARE racist.

YES!

304 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:17:26pm
305 Caliredst8r  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:17:37pm

re: #146 mama winger

"Alcoholism, suicide, aids, general neglect, fetal alcohol syndrome, lack of basic hygiene. The place is a sewer. All in the name of the death cult of communism."

This is so true! On my trips to Russia I was always amazed at how beautiful the country was, but the cities were cesspools. They look like cities that had been abandoned for 100 years and only recently have people started repopulating them. Not so much Moscow, and from what I hear, St. Petersburg, but the rest of the country has been severely neglected. Russia is nothing more than a 3rd world country, I can only imagine what it was like during the Soviet era.

I found the Russian people to be rude and selfish, unless they know you, then they are the warmest kindest people you would want to meet. But then again, I have found that to be true in many of the countries I have visited. My wife, who is Russian, is constantly amazed at how friendly people are here, although sometimes they do go overboard in wanting to help her. They hear her accent and think she knows nothing and is helpless. They don't know that she has a Masters in Biological Chemistry, and one in Mathematics, or that she speaks English and French fluently. Heaven help the poor person who treats her like she has no clue about anything...lol

306 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:17:44pm

#260: I just pointed out that LGF links approvingly to a post which contains a twisted version of one of the most brutal attacks against anti-Jihadists I have seen in a long time. Frankly, I think it undermines the credibility of this website.

307 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:18:02pm
308 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:18:04pm

re: #279 mama winger

#246 Jimmy The Clam
Do not let the words of your enemy confine your thoughts, actions, or ideas.

Exactly. I used to waste a whole lot of time , energy and breath trying to prove I wasn't 'a hater'. A 'racist'. A 'bigot'.

I am none of these. But you know what? Those people who called me that didn't care - they just wanted to box me into a corner and neutralize me.

I refuse to be neutralized. Now, I let my actions speak for me. Words are a waste of time when someone has decided to slander you no matter what, for their own political purposes.

Thank you!
I just wish more people would be willing to stand up and speak the truth and not be deterred by the self-censorship that most of the left is trying to heap upon us.
We cannot timidly creep around trying to not-offend those that are using the chimera of racism to silence any opposition.
That is the surest path to defeat.

309 ted  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:18:22pm

"The swastika is much more frightening than the crescent because it is much more realistic."

I think both are very frightening and very realistic.

310 Colonel Panik  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:18:25pm

re: #62 NJDhockeyfan

I heard something about this the other day:

Croatian musician accused of prompting fascism booked for Cleveland

A Croatian rock musician who performs nationalist -- and some say fascist -- songs and who has drawn Nazi salutes from audience members is booked to play in Cleveland.

"This glorification of fascism is repulsive to any person who stands for the principles of democracy," said Milenkovich, who lives in Cleveland. "They have a song recalling a death camp called Jasenovac, where a million Serbs perished. They glorify genocide. They are nothing more than Croatian Nazis."


Julia Gorin has been all over this for months. If you want a good idea of what the Neo-Ustashas in Croatia and the Bosnian and Albanian Muslim fascists are up to check out her blog Republican Riot.

311 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:18:43pm

re: #298 stranded conservative

I think there an important distinction between not caring if you are CALLED racist and not caring if you ARE racist.

I've been vilified for years with those words. But I will NEVER accept it and define myself that way, and people like Cincinnatus who tell me I'll free my mind by doing so... make me ill.

312 razorbacker  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:18:45pm

You may call me what you wish. I don't care. When you can demonstrate that I am that which you call me is when I get concerned.

313 hazzyday  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:18:55pm

re: #131 hepcat

I am not kidding:

Rice taps Clinton, Carter for Middle East advice

Anxious not to repeat mistakes of past

A long line of US Presidents stood next to Yassar Arafat. It seems that they lost and he won.

I use Israel as the dividing line. If the opponent can't honestly speak that he supports the state of Israel then there is no common ground. That goes for any moderate muslim who attends the lectures of a sudden jihadi Iman. These mosques if they were serious about peace would be behind a peaceful Jewish state. Rather they instead bear a lot of ugly fruit.

314 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:19:23pm

re: #291 Charles

I will never have a "moment of transformation" in which I say, "Yes, I am a racist!"

That's just vile, and anyone who say that kind of thing is nuts.

Give me a reason why I shouldn't block your account right now.


Racism is the catch-all term used by European governments to silence the political opposition. It has nothing to do with actual racism, as defined in any dictionary.

315 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:19:32pm

re: #152 zombie

One thing we all should keep in mind:
... Prior to 1789, there was no such thing as "left-wing" and "right-wing." ... The left/right dichotomy was useful as a framework for around a century of so, basically from about 1880 to 2001. But as of this moment, I regard it as an outdated and useless paradigm. ... Here on the West Coast, all I ever see are Stalinists and Maoists and Marxists and their ilk, gumming up the works and ruining it for everybody. But I forget that elsewhere in the world, there are people still occupying the other irrelevant extreme.
It's not that these people are polar opposites, but rather that they both live in a no-longer-extant world. In that sense, both the extreme left and the extreme right are anti-progressive. They're regressive, and they want to drag us all back with them.

Before World War II left versus right in continental European politics meant for or against the French Revolution. Socialists were leftwing, but so were the (classic) pro-capitalist democratic liberals, who had come to power in the revolutions of 1848.

The rightwing were monarchists, confessionalists (Christians), "anti-revolutionaries" etc.

Fascism and national socialism started from socialism, but called itself rightwing to emphasize they rejected class struggle and revolution in favor of national unity and an imagined pre-French Revolution medieval or Roman ideal. Fascists denounced both socialists and (classic) liberals as "materialistic".

Left/right stopped being useful in 1945. Socialists - or "social democrats" - came to power all over Europe. Because the left had to hide their own shady role in WWII and the Holocaust, they got into the habit of loudly labeling anyone who didn't agree with them as rightwing; including (pro-capitalist) liberals as well as Christians.

The Frankfurter Schule and later the French postmoderns imported this mindset into the US, while incorporating many crypto-fascist, 1930s German/French ideas in their writings.

316 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:19:35pm

re: #300 mama winger

I went to a British-run school my first three years, and had to learn money-math
in pounds/shillings/pence oldstyle, while taking my special off to the side American money lessons. Yeesh. Tradition was nice, but generations of schoolchildren in Britain can breathe a sigh of relief.

317 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:19:51pm

re: #294 Jim in Virginia

re: #278 jaunte

We're Americans. We're mongrels, and proud of it.
Eff homegeneity.

I'm Swedish/ Norwegian by biology.

American by birth and by choice.

I have never trusted the Swedes. Or respected them. Ever. (apologies to my Grandmas and Grandpas - I do not mean you)

318 darvvin  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:19:51pm

What happens if Europe starts another world war and this time America is split 50/50(red/blue) on which side to take?

At least in WW I, WW II, and (cold)WW III we were all on the same side....

I'm considering a vasectomy because I'm not sure I want to bring a child into THIS(current) world.

319 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:20:11pm

re: #303 Highrise

re: #298 stranded conservative


I think there an important distinction between not caring if you are CALLED racist and not caring if you ARE racist.

YES!

But here lies the heart of the conundrum - not caring is one thing, but...... if you can be called a racist and have it stick, then you better care. If it sticks then all your causes, and all your purpose is defeated and consumed. That's just the way it is.

320 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:20:30pm

re: #291 Charles

I will never have a "moment of transformation" in which I say, "Yes, I am a racist!"

That's just vile, and anyone who say that kind of thing is nuts.

Give me a reason why I shouldn't block your account right now.

I see that as an attempt to de-value and de-legitimize that word.

321 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:20:40pm

re: #306 Fjordman

I think you're the one losing credibility at this point. You've lost many potential supporters over the past few days. You're not at the top of your game.

322 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:21:26pm

I'm an engineer; I don't mind the metric system, the trick is not to convert units. If the project is in metric, keep all the discussions in metric.
What drives me up the wall is clients (government and private) who want to do jobs in both metric and Imperial units.

323 stevieray  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:21:28pm

re: #163 McNug

Excellent! I like your point about "the triangle". I've been trying to find a way to explain the flaw in the linear left-right paradigm currently used everywhere, and you've given it to me. Thanks!

If I'm picturing it correctly, the short side of the tall triangle connects the two totalitarian ideologies -- socialism (totalitarian collectivists) and fascists (totalitarian mercantilists); while republicanism [free market capitalists, both conservative and liberal (not leftist)] are off on the ends of the two long legs. Is that what you mean?

P.S. Don't hate me 'cause I used the word "paradigm"... it'll never happen again!

324 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:21:34pm

re: #306 Fjordman

#260: I just pointed out that LGF links approvingly to a post which contains a twisted version of one of the most brutal attacks against anti-Jihadists I have seen in a long time. Frankly, I think it undermines the credibility of this website.

And for my part, I'm beginning to wonder why I ever thought you were saying something worth listening to.

325 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:22:08pm

Cincinnatus is handle misuse.

326 David Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:22:26pm

re: #278 jaunte

"The critical ingredient of a safe, harmonic, solid and supportive society is the common identity, which in turn requires a high degree of ethnic and cultural uniformity amongst the people."

How easily that can be refuted: the United States. When we have, throughout our history, restricted immigration from a particular country, it was to keep our great country from being overrun by any one ethnicity. As a result, we adopted the "best practices" of cultures from around the world. Something the fools who today screech "nativist bigot" are too ideological and stupid to undertand.

327 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:22:28pm

re: #311 Charles

Hang in there, O Lizard King. I don't envy the job you do but I sure do appreciate the fact that you do it.

328 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:22:42pm
329 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:22:54pm

re: #305 Caliredst8r

Russia is nothing more than a 3rd world country, I can only imagine what it was like during the Soviet era.

They have been beaten down and have had the life sucked out of them. There is a darkness descended over that country. 80-odd years ago, their churches were nailed shut, and their believers were killed. Children were turned against parent. People were told their only hope was the State. We all know how that turned out.

Russia itself murdered its own spirit.

330 Cincinnatus  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:23:10pm

re: #284 Charles

Cincinnatus: "consider your points?"

OK. LGF readers are welcome to do that. But please know that your "points" are utterly disgusting to me.

I'm sorry to hear that, Charles. But I do not wish to be where I am not wanted, so I will take my leave. Best wishes. Cc.

331 gunner  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:23:10pm

since the rise of the nazis', pre WW2, haven't they worked hand in hand trying to start an uprising against the brits in the mideast. which had to do with the grand mufti, who was related to arafish. they both worked toward the demise of the jews. i am a poor linker, but there are numerous articles, books, and such out there that details the existence of the to numerous connections.

yes, it is easy to say we need to present a unified front when confronting the islamic hydra. we must question those who we ally with as some of them are just as evil as what we face, and are we then not tainted by our association. even to the point of thinking that we hold the higher moral ground and we will escape unscathed by their immoralities. charles is right to question those who have some common cause with our, for lack of a better word in my mind at the moment, "side."

even if the two antagonists face each other in a battle to the finish, then the one that is left will have no doubts as to its purpose in stomping out the west and its civilization.

332 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:23:36pm

TIME FOR DEEP BREATHING EXERCISES EVERYONE

333 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:23:43pm

re: #319 Thanos

Thanos I agree. I should have made my point more clear and you said it better frankly than I could have. I think some of these people hide under the *I don't care if you think I'm racist* and they really are and slough it off as a mere namecall.

334 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:23:49pm
335 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:23:52pm

uoy evol I

kft

336 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:24:07pm

re: #285 Killgore Trout

I think there's a lot of support in America and a lot more potential support to come. I'm more than eager to shed light this now before it takes hold.

Killgore get this. My brother in law called me from his car today to tell me that on Telegraph Road just North of Van Born in Dearborn Heights you can see a big banner that someone has attached to the side of their garage that has a big swastika, a Star of David and some rambling about tax dollars. I called the Dearborn Heights police to ask if that was legal to display a swastika on a banner like that and they told me unfortunately there was nothing they could do to make him take it down. And this is not a Muslim neighborhood by any means. Its a pure redneck democrat enclave.

And thats the side effect of Ron Paul politics. He emboldens the Nazis, the Birchers, the Klan, and the variety of CT nutjobs that they have a place in mainstream American politics.

337 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:24:19pm

re: #314 Beagle

re: #291 Charles

I will never have a "moment of transformation" in which I say, "Yes, I am a racist!"

That's just vile, and anyone who say that kind of thing is nuts.

Give me a reason why I shouldn't block your account right now.


Racism is the catch-all term used by European governments to silence the political opposition. It has nothing to do with actual racism, as defined in any dictionary.

Agreed. The "racism" term has been used as a blunt weapon. But "Cincinnatus" is saying something very different ... he's saying we should embrace the term, and thereby "free our mentality."

And I find that repugnant in the extreme.

338 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:25:15pm

re: #276 taxfreekiller

On enemy.

"Do ------------ actions."
Delete the rest of the sentence.

I've always figured you for a sniper, in which case, good hunting.

Got any more Captain's Mast stories?

/they're always entertaining

339 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:25:17pm

It appears I've become a schismatic lizard because I've been following the evolving and convoluted use of the term "racism" to accomplish Orwellian oppression mainly in Europe. It's coming here soon enough in the guise of "hate speech" laws. "Congress shall make no some really good sounding law..."

340 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:25:33pm

re: #330 Cincinnatus

re: #284 Charles

Cincinnatus: "consider your points?"

OK. LGF readers are welcome to do that. But please know that your "points" are utterly disgusting to me.

I'm sorry to hear that, Charles. But I do not wish to be where I am not wanted, so I will take my leave. Best wishes. Cc.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

341 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:25:36pm
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has sought the advice of former US presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton ahead of a planned Middle East peace parley scheduled to take place in Annapolis, Maryland, in November or December.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Jimmy Carter.

342 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:25:50pm

re: #332 Jimmy The Clam

TIME FOR DEEP BREATHING EXERCISES EVERYONE

maybe some subdudes?

343 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:25:57pm

#324: And why is that, Charles? Because the post you linked to casually refers to a 74-year-old unarmed woman as a right-wing extremist?

344 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:26:01pm
345 Colonel Panik  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:26:53pm

I'm going to depart this internet gunfight to go watch "3:10 to Yuma". See you on the late nigh threads.

346 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:27:06pm

re: #283 Beagle

... There are about 20 traveling neo-Nazis in the United States. They're met by hundreds of angry protesters wherever they go. ...

American neonazism is a joke, just poor white trash latching onto something. It has very little to do with the real nazism, which came out of the socialist mainstream of 1920/30s European politics.

347 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:27:09pm

re: #318 darvvin

I'm considering a vasectomy because I'm not sure I want to bring a child into THIS(current) world

That would be the worst possible reason to have a vasectomy. What you would be saying is 'there is no reason to hope. There is no future here.'

Is that how you want to live?

348 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:27:22pm

re: #342 albusteve

re: #332 Jimmy The Clam


TIME FOR DEEP BREATHING EXERCISES EVERYONE

maybe some subdudes?

I had to Google that one
[Link: www.subdudes.com...]

Who are they and whatdotheydo? :)

349 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:27:39pm
350 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:27:45pm

re: #343 Fjordman

#324: And why is that, Charles? Because the post you linked to casually refers to a 74-year-old unarmed woman as a right-wing extremist?

Because you're completely distorting what Esther wrote.

351 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:27:52pm

re: #292 Thanos

re: #315 Peter Verkooijen

"PV" -

AND - in the immediate Post WWII era - 1945 - 80 or thereabouts, we of the Left in the US considered European Social Democrats to be the epitome of civilized politics.

-S-

352 JammieWearingFool  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:27:54pm

re: #341 Ben Hur

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has sought the advice of former US presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton ahead of a planned Middle East peace parley scheduled to take place in Annapolis, Maryland, in November or December.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Jimmy Carter.

I had something on that earlier.

Laugh out loud first paragraph.

Anxious not to repeat mistakes of past Middle East peace-making, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has turned to former presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter for tips ahead of her own conference this year.
353 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:28:05pm
354 nyc redneck  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:28:48pm

re: #328 taxfreekiller

time out

say something funny

or spell something backwards

here's a joke: (i'm sure you've all heard it) how many french soldiers does it take to defend paris? ? ?

no one knows, it's never been tried.

355 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:28:51pm

#337 Charles

OK, that's a good point. But there's nothing a European can do about being called a racist. They're boxed in by oppressive political correctness. If they favor any border controls, they're automatically racists...

We're not so far from Europe after all.

356 ted  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:29:31pm

re: #311 Charles

re: #298 stranded conservative


I think there an important distinction between not caring if you are CALLED racist and not caring if you ARE racist.

I've been vilified for years with those words. But I will NEVER accept it and define myself that way, and people like Cincinnatus who tell me I'll free my mind by doing so... make me ill.

Just the fact that someone would have the audactity and unbridled arrogance to even suggest or intimate that they are of the opinion that one should "free ones mind" boggles my mind, particulARLY WHEN THEY KNOW THERE ISN'T A GRAIN OF TRUTH IN IT.

357 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:29:42pm
358 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:29:47pm

re: #348 Jimmy The Clam

re: #342 albusteve


re: #332 Jimmy The Clam

TIME FOR DEEP BREATHING EXERCISES EVERYONE

maybe some subdudes?

I had to Google that one
[Link: www.subdudes.com...]

Who are they and whatdotheydo? :)

they make music!...they're out of Nawlins...check out 'Late at Night' from youtube...enjoy!

359 Ma Sands  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:30:10pm

re: #334 taxfreekiller

I have so noticed; by more than one thing.

360 dogbreath  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:30:52pm

re: #307 song_and_dance_man

re: #269 dogbreath


When a plant grows toward the sun, that’s opportunism. Life is the response to opportunity. You choose yours, I choose mine, but we both seize opportunities. That doesn’t mean we lie, cheat and steal every chance we get. That’s a dead-end strategy, a short-term loser strategy. We weigh costs, benefits and risk, then we act. Judeo-Christian morality, based on long-term experience, shows what works as a long term strategy.
I agree with everything you said but the bolded. Life is the response to the gift of God that is life. I don't look at it as an opportunity as though we have or can gain something that can be ours for the taking. I look at it as a privilege and we make the best of it with what is given. Over extending to gain with an opportunist ideal will lead away from and not towards the Creator.

Then I’d say we pretty much agree. Seeking to grow toward the Creator.

361 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:30:59pm

re: #318 darvvin

I'm considering a vasectomy because I'm not sure I want to bring a child into THIS(current) world.

In 1953 we were 11 years past Pearl harbor, 8 years from Hiroshima, had lost China, were losing in Korea, and the Russians had an H bomb.
My folks had kids anyway. I'm grateful.
In 58 Sputnik was launched.
In 61 the Berlin Wall went up. 62, the Bay of pigs.
In the 50's there were regular polio scares. Twenty years later it was Alar.
Our condition is not better or worse than it used to be. It's just different.

362 Blazer in Ric  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:31:04pm

"I debated whether to jump into the fray. My blog focuses on translating news, not on inter-blog debates, but most important - I’m afraid of the reactions. On the other hand, maybe this is a good reason to speak up.

I do not want to get into the debate about any specific group being “racist”. What bothers me more is the idea that bloggers can’t speak, or express an opinion, because they stepped on somebody else’s feet. Because they expressed a valid fear."


Jump into the fray. Call out what you think may be an evil before it gets started. A lot of Germans back in the 30's probably wished they would have. The fight against Islamo-facism, should in no way mean one has to trade arsenic for cyanide.

Neo-Nazis, and Socialists are extreme leftists, and the lie the left likes to propogate is that the right is.

One does not have to become a Nationalist xenophobe to expose, and fight the forces of a people that do not want to assimilate into a culture, but to replace it with a caliphate.

Remember the guns of Revolution once the battle is won, usually soon turn against the people that supported it.

363 David Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:31:12pm

re: #286 Thanos

re: #258 David Simon


re: #243 Thanos

Btw: FNDT ... Cognac here, Hennesey's.

VS, VSOP or XO?

VSOP, alas the Paradis is gone.

Oh my, you are a connoisseur. Never have had even a sip of Paradis. VSOP is fine for my taste buds.

364 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:31:20pm
365 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:31:23pm

re: #334 taxfreekiller

careful its a full moon out


Woah! That's right... another try at getting one of those harvest moon shots with a telephoto lens.

bbl

366 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:31:23pm

re: #346 Peter Verkooijen

re: #283 Beagle


... There are about 20 traveling neo-Nazis in the United States. They're met by hundreds of angry protesters wherever they go. ...
American neonazism is a joke, just poor white trash latching onto something. It has very little to do with the real nazism, which came out of the socialist mainstream of 1920/30s European politics.

That's exactly right. The neo-Nazis in the US will never gain a foothold.

But in Europe, the last 100 years of history should teach us how dangerous they are. Unfortunately, there are many Europeans who are ignoring that lesson, and falling for the siren song yet again.

367 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:31:36pm

re: #326 David Simon

When we have, throughout our history, restricted immigration from a particular country, it was to keep our great country from being overrun by any one ethnicity. As a result, we adopted the "best practices" of cultures from around the world. Something the fools who today screech "nativist bigot" are too ideological and stupid to undertand.

I do think selective restriction of immigration is a good idea, to keep the 'blend' happening. To many homogenous enclaves, and centripetal forces begin force societies apart. Islamism counts as a negative force in this regard, ideologically and socially, rather than on a basis of ethnic groupings. It just isn't true that to oppose these forces one has to become an ethnic exclusivist.

368 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:31:50pm

TOTAL BUZZ KILL.

I'm outty.

369 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:31:51pm

re: #359 Ma Sands

Hi Ma.

Welcome to the ring. :)

370 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:32:08pm

re: #319 Thanos

re: #303 Highrise

re: #298 stranded conservative


I think there an important distinction between not caring if you are CALLED racist and not caring if you ARE racist.


YES!

But here lies the heart of the conundrum - not caring is one thing, but...... if you can be called a racist and have it stick, then you better care. If it sticks then all your causes, and all your purpose is defeated and consumed. That's just the way it is.

You make a good point. However, if you live your life in a way that it gives the lie to such attacks, it makes it harder for such labels to stick. But you bring up the nastiest part of struggling against committed progressives and/or Islamists (to avoid pejorative terms). They are more than happy to lie, cheat, steal and destroy for their cause where as we (if we are honorable people) must lean on truth, evidence, logic and courage. Fortunately, I see that all of those qualities in many that post here and it gives me hope.

371 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:32:13pm

re: #336 Mich-again

Ron Paul!

372 Elcid  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:32:15pm

Somehow I knew I'd get the Goldwater line.

It doesn't take extremism to defend liberty. What is does take is defining the enemy(ies) whichever form it is, AND whomever it comes from and have the determination to defeat it. That may include, drastic measures which is totally different, from extremism

373 Racer X  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:32:17pm

Just as clarification:

I am a Racer

Not a Racist

Thank you.

374 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:32:30pm
375 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:32:39pm

re #326 oops forgot to block quote...

376 Ashamed to be Dutch  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:33:08pm

re: #285 Killgore Trout

re: #261 Ashamed to be Dutch


Another "curiosity" is that many Americans (that's my analysis from the little US media I have access to) think the nazi problem is mainly European.
The Europeans, brainwashed by our leftist media, think the opposite... They think it's the US that's responsible because the US is allowing neo nazi / white power web sites, political parties etc ...

That's an interesting observation. VB was in DC this spring drumming up support and Stromfront (an American neo-Nazi site) loves them and links to their speeches and rallies. I've also seen a lot of blog comments (presumably American) eager to look the other way or to outright embrace the racist agenda.
I think there's a lot of support in America and a lot more potential support to come. I'm more than eager to shed light this now before it takes hold.

I think the US knows the multiracial society, it has adapted to it and it now goes pretty smoothly in most of the US.
The Europeans only "discover" this multiracial society and they often put all "colored" immigrants the "same bag". Many wrongfully think the answer against islam is racism and nazis "exploit" this feelings... I'm pretty sure many European "right winger" and islamo skeptics (islamophobes) are decent people who don't realize they are manipulated by nazis.

If the center right had the "balls" to say the truth about the problem Europe is in with islam all those extremists would disappear right away, they would be right bag in the trash can in witch they belong.

377 Jim in Virginia  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:33:10pm

re: #329 mama winger

Perfect explanation. I wish I were as smart and succinct as you.

378 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:33:16pm

The pendulum can only stop in the middle. The harder you push it beyond the middle point the more potential energy you give to the eventual back swing.

Radicalism breeds radicalism.

379 Cognito  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:33:32pm

Wow. Quite a thread I've missed, so far.

380 defogger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:33:35pm

re: #293 mama winger

Thanks, Mama Winger. Of course, I knew YOU would understand!

381 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:33:57pm
382 Ma Sands  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:33:58pm

re: #369 mama winger

Thank you. :)

383 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:34:02pm

I think the apparently small number of people in the sweet middle of the political spectrum is a very bad omen, global conflict wise.

Time to outsprint my dog and work out. Back later.

384 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:34:13pm
385 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:35:06pm

re: #306 Fjordman

#260: I just pointed out that LGF links approvingly to a post which contains a twisted version of one of the most brutal attacks against anti-Jihadists I have seen in a long time. Frankly, I think it undermines the credibility of this website.

No, Fjordman, that isn't what I was referring to. I was referring to this post, which I believe attacks Charles' original post, the one in which he said he had misgivings about some of the groups at the Anti-Jihad conference, the VB and SD, but that he wanted to be fair. You called that mild expression of concern "launching a full-scale assault":

re: #425 Fjordman

#311: Charles, I agree that some of the characteristics of you were grossly unfair, but I don't think your treatment of this has been entirely without problems, either. You didn't have to launch such a full-scale assault without even talking to the people and parties involved and listen to their side of the story.

If Fjordman gives the Sweden Democrats the thumbs up, that's all I need to know to support them.
I haven't given them any thumbs up yet, I just want to give them a chance to state their case. I don't see who else to talk to. Sweden is probably the most totalitarian country in the Western world. There simply isn't any debate about immigration or Multiculturalism at all.

Fjordman, you are an invaluable resource and an ally. Why don't you just apologize to Charles for this unfair attack and acknowledge that his desire to be fair and to be true to his principles is entirely appropriate? LGF is no small player in the battle to shape American thinking on this front, and a very foolish ally to discard. Please.

386 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:35:09pm

re: #377 Jim in Virginia

re: #329 mama winger

Perfect explanation. I wish I were as smart and succinct as you.

I'm not all that smart, and the only reason I'm succinct is that I'm too old to have the energy to type a lot of words. LOL :)

387 unclassifiable  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:36:33pm

It is weird how in the liberal mindset that sexuality is a "social construct" but race is a real bona fide classification.

Considering the words of MLK and the slow but seemingly inevitable adoption of them by society I can actually see a day where race will be irrelevant.

Or to paraphrase a friend who works in an extremely diverse school district (over 70 languages spoken):

I have seen the future and it is tan.

388 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:36:49pm

re: #383 Beagle

Time to outsprint my dog and work out. Back later.

/is it, by chance, a beagle?

389 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:36:54pm
390 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:37:00pm

re: #380 defogger

re: #293 mama winger

Thanks, Mama Winger. Of course, I knew YOU would understand!

Which is why I expect to be labeled as a bigot - because I have very firm ideas about right and wrong, and I don't do a whole lot of shifting.

391 Cognito  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:37:08pm

re: #386 mama winger

Shorter is all right, Mama Winger. With apologies to Twain, that's the difference between an "lightning" and "lightning bug."

392 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:37:10pm

re: #386 mama winger

re: #377 Jim in Virginia


re: #329 mama winger

Perfect explanation. I wish I were as smart and succinct as you.


I'm not all that smart, and the only reason I'm succinct is that I'm too old to have the energy to type a lot of words. LOL :)

aha!...there you go again...priceless!

393 OldLineTexan  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:37:25pm

re: #347 mama winger

re: #318 darvvin


I'm considering a vasectomy because I'm not sure I want to bring a child into THIS(current) world

That would be the worst possible reason to have a vasectomy. What you would be saying is 'there is no reason to hope. There is no future here.'

Is that how you want to live?

Listen to mama, she's handing you pure gold.

My children are the only reason to care about "the world". I could surely live out my days in peace if I ran, but I have reason not to run.

BTW, we were NOT all on the same side in WW1 and WW2. Both wars were hugely opposed in the US, sometime with good reason. US isolationists were leading public opinion until after Dec. 7, 1941.

394 Blazer in Ric  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:37:42pm

re: #364 taxfreekiller

If they were painted beige maybe we wouldn't see them more.

Ask Syria.

395 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:38:23pm

re: #391 Cognito

LOL!

Hi Cognito

396 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:39:40pm
397 Chuckie Greenballs  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:39:57pm

Are we having fun yet? Hic.

398 Racer X  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:40:07pm

Babble, burble, banter, bickerbickerbicker, brouhaha!

399 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:40:43pm
400 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:40:49pm

It didn't happen overnight.

/there's no fast way out

401 Le_Patriot  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:41:26pm

Interesting debate(s) here tonight. I lurked through most of it. One of the reasons for some of the disagreement IMHO, was the lumping together of multiple issues all in one post. (VL & SD opinions; being called a racist and not caring; actually being a racist and not caring; etc.)

402 Cognito  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:41:33pm

re: #397 Chuckie Greenballs

Are we having fun yet? Hic.

Why, man? Why not just make a cogent point, instead of swinging in with your middle finger held aloft?

403 Ledger1  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:41:34pm

re: #288 Dr. Shalit

re: #274 Ledger1

"L 1" -

"Just Do It" - and say nothing about it - Then, Now, or EVER!

-S-


Agreed.

404 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:41:36pm
405 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:42:30pm

re: #397 Chuckie Greenballs

Are we having fun yet? Hic.

Web site URL:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Registered lizardoid since: Oct 26, 2007 at 12:44 pm

No. of comments posted (since July 26, 2004): 3

/good luck

406 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:42:38pm

re: #385 Dead Sea Squirrel

Thanks, but I don't think it's going to happen. Fjordman has too much invested in that opinion.

407 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:42:42pm

re: #398 Racer X

Perfect. Great stuff.

408 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:42:44pm

re: #397 Chuckie Greenballs

How did you get that nic?

unless. . . . . . .

409 Racer X  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:42:49pm

re: #404 song_and_dance_man

Backtalk!

410 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:43:10pm

re: #343 Fjordman
Really sit down and think about this. A few days ago (even a few hours ago) you had a few people on your side with VB/SD and a lot more on the wavering on the fence. You've responded with straw men and bile while LGF has presented a mountain of facts. You're the lone voice of support left on this thread after the racism embracing troll left. Think about it, you're digging your own hole.

411 Caliredst8r  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:43:29pm

re: #329 mama winger

The really sad thing is how nonchalant they are about abortion, it's no big thing to them. Babies are discarded like they are nothing more than a used tissue and if the child is born the fathers don't take much of an interest unless it is a male child. My wife's father is an exception, my wife is "daddy's little girl". He's a good dude.

412 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:44:11pm

re: #363 David Simon

re: #286 Thanos


re: #258 David Simon

re: #243 Thanos

Btw: FNDT ... Cognac here, Hennesey's.

VS, VSOP or XO?

VSOP, alas the Paradis is gone.

Oh my, you are a connoisseur. Never have had even a sip of Paradis. VSOP is fine for my taste buds.

Mine as well friend, but when you don't drink oft then a wee bitty of Paradis goes a long way.

413 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:44:28pm
414 Le_Patriot  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:44:39pm

OT
Now for something a little lighter:
(Article linked to on Drudge)

Human race will 'split into two different species'
Exerpt:
[. . . "The human race will one day split into two separate species, an attractive, intelligent ruling elite and an underclass of dim-witted, ugly goblin-like creatures, according to a top scientist." ...]

HaHaHaHa
Funny Article I thought
/Lizards vs KosKidz?

415 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:44:46pm

re: #405 Killian Bundy

I think the link is a reference to understand the joke.

/just sayin'

416 defogger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:45:24pm

re: #390 mama winger

Yeah. I have recently learned that, as an evangelical Baptist pastor, I'm an "extremist."

Glad that's all cleared up!

/

417 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:45:38pm

100% pure troll. We haven't had that for awhile.

Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys.

418 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:45:43pm
419 hazzyday  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:46:04pm

re: #306 Fjordman
Show me the correct link. I value you as smart and informative. If you lose your steam and blame it on the blog. You're saying you don't want to repeat yourself. I don't read all your posts. I am usually a late arriver to threads when people are wanting to shut them down. What would be useful to me is sometype of political scale and the positioning of SD on them.


I have read more of Pamela's work. I have read more Gates of Vienna, I have read more of SD. I trust the honesty of people in the media very little. Especially in Europe. I have the perception that rascism there is diferent than rascism here.

420 UncleSam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:46:06pm

#114 Jetpilot1101 said:The USSR never gave up the ghost. Environmentalism is simply communism under a new name.

Yep. The whole point of global warming and other environmentalist scams is to steal your freedom, money and property.

421 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:46:12pm
422 OldLineTexan  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:46:38pm

re: #417 Dead Sea Squirrel

100% pure troll. We haven't had that for awhile.

Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys.

heh heh, I just watched that movie a couple of days ago

423 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:46:40pm

re: #411 Caliredst8r

I learned from my friend over there that the average woman has as many as 10 abortions in her lifetime. Whole families of siblings are put in orphanages while mom dies of AIDS or dad dies of alcoholism. It is a tragedy of immense proportions.

Members of my family have been involved in orphanage work in Ukraine, Romania and Russia. It is sickening. Children are just - disposable.

424 duke6855  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:46:57pm

re: #415 Sharmuta

One can only hope...

425 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:47:03pm

re: #414 Le_Patriot

I want to know why they assume that the ugly ones will also be the stupid ones. That hasn't been my experience. Exhibit A: Hollywood.

/no offense to those beautiful AND intelligent lizards

426 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:47:04pm

re: #414 Le_Patriot

OT

427 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:47:09pm

re: #411 Caliredst8r

How did "abortion" get into this discussion? Please take your agenda somewhere else.

428 Smilin' Jack  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:47:38pm

Well, what have I gleaned from all this?

In Europe, the National Socialists, soccer hooligans and Environmentalists are squaring off against the International Socialists, Islamists and Environmentalists.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of nasties. The pendulum had to start swinging back sometime.

Seems like time to put over some popcorn, chase the dog out of the easy chair, sit back and watch the spectacle...while keeping our options open for the main event. All this angst about what "coulda, shoulda, woulda" and what role to play will only further cloud already addled brains.

I know, clueless....
SJ

429 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:47:44pm
430 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:48:01pm

re: #415 Sharmuta

I think the link is a reference to understand the joke.

/just sayin'

/I wished it luck

431 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:48:29pm

re: #414 Le_Patriot

Sorry, misfire on the posting fingers...

432 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:48:36pm

Charles:

Because you're completely distorting what Esther wrote.

Am I? To her credit, she does say that they were brutally assaulted by left-wingers. She then calls them a "right wing extremist group." This includes an unarmed elderly woman, surely a dangerous extremist.

And again, clashes between right-wing and left-wing extremists aren't that common, at least not in Denmark, for the very simple reason that there are very few violent groups of right-wing extremists. It's usually extreme Leftists assaulting people. Maybe that will change at some point, but that's the situation now.

433 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:48:46pm

re: #425 stranded conservative

re: #414 Le_Patriot

I want to know why they assume that the ugly ones will also be the stupid ones. That hasn't been my experience. Exhibit A: Hollywood.

/no offense to those beautiful AND intelligent lizards

non taken...

434 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:49:00pm

Abortion/Nazi/Friday Night/Full Moon Thread!
/It's raining frogs!

435 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:49:16pm

re: #425 stranded conservative

re: #414 Le_Patriot

I want to know why they assume that the ugly ones will also be the stupid ones. That hasn't been my experience. Exhibit A: Hollywood.

/no offense to those beautiful AND intelligent lizards

Sorry to quote myself but I forgot to add something.

"The Time Machine" and H.G. Wells had it the other way around. The stupid Eloi were lovely and the Morlocks that ran the world would have frightened Quasimodo.

436 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:49:18pm

re: #416 defogger

Yeah. I have recently learned that, as an evangelical Baptist pastor, I'm an "extremist."

Well , like , Duh !

former Ev Free Church pastor's wife here :)

437 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:49:25pm
438 Blazer in Ric  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:49:31pm

re: #411 Caliredst8r

They will arbitrarlly exterminate a living, growing human being that has no voice, and cannot defend themselves, but have no problem advocating the extermination of the living, who also have no voice, and cannot defend themselves. Go figure.

439 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:49:42pm

I've thought about it. I lost a number of relatives because of fighting against and living under Nazis, so I'm not aligning myself with them. I'm also not going to lose any sleep over how Europe solves its Islam problem either. When the time comes, the U.S. will be there to bail them out again, and we can remove the Nazis again too, if necessary. They've made their little socialist utopias over there, now let them reap the rewards.

440 Abu Bin Squid  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:50:26pm

Can't leave, can't read fast enough.

441 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:50:37pm

re: #433 albusteve

Gotta appreciate a man with confidence.
/however misplaced ; )

442 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:50:37pm

re: #414 Le_Patriot

Human race will 'split into two different species'
Exerpt:
[. . . "The human race will one day split into two separate species, an attractive, intelligent ruling elite and an underclass of dim-witted, ugly goblin-like creatures, according to a top scientist." ...]

HaHaHaHa
Funny Article I thought
/Lizards vs KosKidz?

...Then the Engineers came up from underground, to collect the Eloi for dinner....

443 Ashamed to be Dutch  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:50:43pm

re: #399 song_and_dance_man

re: #376 Ashamed to be Dutch



I think the US knows the multiracial society, it has adapted to it and it now goes pretty smoothly in most of the US.
The Europeans only "discover" this multiracial society and they often put all "colored" immigrants the "same bag".

The Great Melting Pot has something going for it. It has worked well so far but there are hints of cracks in the pot.

Not so sure, this can be solved if islam is put "under control" in the US.
If not, many may unfortunately turn to racism as an alternative way to fight back, this is one of the reasons that makes me feel the emergency to solve the problem in the US before anywhere else. Everywhere, "Political correctness" plays in the hands of the islamists.
Here in Europe, without islam being the main source of the "so called" racist problem the "perfect melting pot could possibly be achieved.

444 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:50:49pm

re: #434 Killgore Trout

Abortion/Nazi/Friday Night/Full Moon Thread!
/It's raining frogs!

is that from 'the Fight Club'?...raining frogs?

445 Blazer in Ric  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:51:46pm

re: #444 albusteve

magnolia

446 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:51:51pm
447 Jimmah  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:52:16pm
"The critical ingredient of a safe, harmonic, solid and supportive society is the common identity, which in turn requires a high degree of ethnic and cultural uniformity amongst the people. From this, it follows that the nationalist principle, the principle of one state, one nation, is absolutely fundamental to the Sweden Democrats’ political values. The nationalist principle is based on the concept of the nation state, that the territorial boundaries of the state shall coincide with its demographic boundaries. In its ideal form, such a society is therefore ethnically homogenous. (Sverigedemokraterna 2003)

[Link: i238.photobucket.com...]

Nite lizards.

448 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:52:21pm

re: #432 Fjordman

Yes, you are. You're focusing on a small detail, and trying to discredit the larger argument with it. Just as you tried to misrepresent my perfectly reasonable questions about VB and SD as a "full scale assault."

449 Le_Patriot  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:52:21pm

re: #425 stranded conservative

re: #414 Le_Patriot

I want to know why they assume that the ugly ones will also be the stupid ones. That hasn't been my experience. Exhibit A: Hollywood.

/no offense to those beautiful AND intelligent lizards

_____________________
Good point.

450 unclassifiable  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:52:40pm

Folks, if anything, 9/11 has shown us that the "sit back and let Europe hang" option is not available anymore.

We live in a highly connect world now where force projection is not just the province of advanced industrial nations but is the new toy of any ragtag bunch of psychopaths that can get funding.

451 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:52:41pm

re: #441 stranded conservative

re: #433 albusteve

Gotta appreciate a man with confidence.
/however misplaced ; )

I use a special deodorant...
btw my IQ is 167

452 Jimmy The Clam  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:52:46pm

re: #429 song_and_dance_man

re: #413 Jimmy The Clam


Elephant Talk (Acid Test) featuring "The British Soldiers"

What the... shooting a rocket launcher high on acid should be a no no.

I was a bit surprised at that one too.

453 NY Nana  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:53:07pm

re: #410 Killgore Trout

Great post, Killgore.

/I have to wonder why he continues to post here if it is so bad....

454 blue_like_jazz  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:53:10pm

well, it's no fricking wonder:

CONDI, CARTER, AND CLINTON

//the idiocy trifecta

455 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:53:18pm

re: #445 Blazer in Ric

re: #444 albusteve

magnolia

that was it...freaky

456 Cognito  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:53:53pm

re: #452 Jimmy The Clam

re: #429 song_and_dance_man

re: #413 Jimmy The Clam

Elephant Talk (Acid Test) featuring "The British Soldiers"

What the... shooting a rocket launcher high on acid should be a no no.
I was a bit surprised at that one too.

Wasn't real. War games.

457 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:54:04pm

re: #444 albusteve

This Is Your Life

You should read the book if you haven't already.

458 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:54:11pm
459 mama winger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:54:20pm

re: #427 Charles

How did "abortion" get into this discussion? Please take your agenda somewhere else.

We were discussing the dreadful stat of affairs in Russia after its long bout with communism. It was in that context.

But I will do as you ask.

Goodnight friends. :)

460 Ledger1  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:55:06pm

I have been thinking about this whole situation for a few days.

Pamela has tried to form some cohesive resistance to the Islamization of Europe. In putting together the group she may have a few clinkers in the mix. But, she is trying.

Charles is well aware of the dangers of being aligned is so called “neo-Nazis” (assuming they have not reformed). Basically, you become a huge target for criticism – unjustly or justly.

The real problem of giving VB and SD legitimacy and notoriety is that they could swing like a gate.

They could just say: “I have changed my mind. I think Jews are bad and Jihads are good. So, we are now joining forces with the Jihads and will fight the Jews.”

This would leave people like Pam out in the cold and solidify a dangerous group of people into a cohesive unit. And, that would be ugly.

Is Charles correct? VB and SD have not reformed.

Is Pamela correct? VB and SD have reformed.

I do not know. Both have made good cases.

I would have to get the book on VB and SD then weight the advantages and disadvantages of associating with them.

Intuitively, Charles seems correct.

461 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:56:31pm

432 Fjordman

The presence of a 74 year old unarmed woman doesn't prove or disprove anything. Thats weak.

462 defogger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:56:40pm

re: #436 mama winger

re: #416 defogger


Yeah. I have recently learned that, as an evangelical Baptist pastor, I'm an "extremist."

Well , like , Duh !

former Ev Free Church pastor's wife here :)

LOL! I guess I can live with it. Better than being ignored!

463 Last Man  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:56:49pm

meh, after the islamists get firebombed the nazis get a do over

464 Blazer in Ric  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:57:02pm

re: #448 Charles

Ah, but time will tell Charles, and if Europes deep dark past holds up, truth will be on your side.

Let Vb's, and Sd's actions speak louder than their words, and let them prove this is not the latest incantation of a xenophobic socialist movement.

If it's not, i will be the first one to extend a hand, and take my hat off to them.

Thanks for taking a stand on this issue.

465 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:57:04pm

re: #434 Killgore Trout

Abortion/Nazi/Friday Night/Full Moon Thread!
/It's raining frogs!

Don't know about anyone else but, it's FNDT in my area.

Got a new job. I'll be on my feet for the next 10+/- weeks at a high-end store making sure it's nice and purty. I won't be getting commission but, I won't be tied to a particular spot, and the discount is fantastic!

The Kid got called to the head-master's office for grabbing another boy's butt. He also got in trouble for pulling a girl's hair, but that was handled at the class-room level.

The HM and I quickly agreed that this is normal behavior for boys who are in the same class/same extra-curricular activities and consider themselves "bestest buds." But, it had to be handled that way due to Things-Being-the-Way-They-Are.

The hair-pulling shit: that's just wrong. I don't care how much QOTFG (Queen of the First Grade) annoys/teases you, you don't pull her hair!

466 Abu Bin Squid  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:57:17pm

Mama Winger - don't go. I can't believe Charles was speaking to you.

467 Cognito  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:57:22pm

re: #460 Ledger1

Is Charles correct? VB and SD have not reformed.

Is Pamela correct? VB and SD have reformed.

I do not know. Both have made good cases.

Here's the deal: A reformed group of Nazis forever carries with them the stink of Nazism. Full stop. No need for us to invite that stink onto ourselves. It gives the other side ammunition that's uncomfortably legitimate.

468 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:57:40pm

Fjordman, since the article Charles links (and quotes at length) contains several distortions about LGF, it should be obvious that Charles is not giving it a blanket endorsement. If it contains errors, well, that's what the discussion threads are for. Why turn it into a needless attack? This is so unnecessary.

469 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:58:03pm

re: #451 albusteve

re: #441 stranded conservative

re: #433 albusteve

Gotta appreciate a man with confidence.
/however misplaced ; )

I use a special deodorant...
btw my IQ is 167

I was wondering. . . Does God give large IQs as compensation for other "short"comings?
/sorry, will return to acting my age if I can remember what it is

470 hazzyday  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:58:11pm

re: #306 Fjordman

I just yelled at the pizza delivery guy. I shouldn't have. The pizza is not as good now.

471 Promethea  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:58:12pm

re: #323 stevieray


P.S. Don't hate me 'cause I used the word "paradigm"... it'll never happen again!

Don't use the word "heuristic" either.

/ ;-)

472 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:59:05pm
473 razorbacker  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:59:16pm

re: 451 albusteve

btw my IQ is 167

Being able to state that you have a high IQ is nice. Not as nice as having others deduce that you have a high IQ, but nice;)

474 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 7:59:18pm

re: #457 Killgore Trout

re: #444 albusteve

This Is Your Life

You should read the book if you haven't already.

vid looks pretty bizaar...I'll look for it...will I still be good ol steve after I read it?...should I know more?...nefarious mind control?

475 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:00:23pm

re: #471 Promethea

re: #323 stevieray


P.S. Don't hate me 'cause I used the word "paradigm"... it'll never happen again!

Don't use the word "heuristic" either.

/ ;-)

How about "hirsute"? I always enjoy that one.

476 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:01:23pm
477 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:01:45pm

re: #474 albusteve

He's a very interesting witter, rather dark but thoughtful.

478 David Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:02:08pm

re: #423 mama winger

re: #411 Caliredst8r

I learned from my friend over there that the average woman has as many as 10 abortions in her lifetime. Whole families of siblings are put in orphanages while mom dies of AIDS or dad dies of alcoholism. It is a tragedy of immense proportions.

Members of my family have been involved in orphanage work in Ukraine, Romania and Russia. It is sickening. Children are just - disposable.

Yes, I've read that something like 70% of all Russian babies are aborted (from Mark Steyn, I think). That's what happens when the poisonous ideology of communism (and it's evil twin sister, socialism) manifests itself: you need not care about anything (not even another human being) other than your own hedonistic pleasure. Government is responsible for everything else.

479 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:02:14pm

re: #465 MandyManners

re: #434 Killgore Trout


Abortion/Nazi/Friday Night/Full Moon Thread!
/It's raining frogs!

Don't know about anyone else but, it's FNDT in my area.

Got a new job. I'll be on my feet for the next 10+/- weeks at a high-end store making sure it's nice and purty. I won't be getting commission but, I won't be tied to a particular spot, and the discount is fantastic!

The Kid got called to the head-master's office for grabbing another boy's butt. He also got in trouble for pulling a girl's hair, but that was handled at the class-room level.

The HM and I quickly agreed that this is normal behavior for boys who are in the same class/same extra-curricular activities and consider themselves "bestest buds." But, it had to be handled that way due to Things-Being-the-Way-They-Are.

The hair-pulling shit: that's just wrong. I don't care how much QOTFG (Queen of the First Grade) annoys/teases you, you don't pull her hair!

good news!...maybe in the end you'll have to licence and register the Kid!

480 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:02:17pm

re: #460 Ledger1

Is Charles correct? VB and SD have not reformed.

Is Pamela correct? VB and SD have reformed.

I do not know. Both have made good cases.

Would you work with a "reformed" nazi party?

481 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:04:25pm

re: #465 MandyManners

Instaupundit is a big fan of the Dangerous Book for Boys. We raise them wrong in this culture. To quote Tyler Durden.....

We're a generation of men raised by women.
482 Blazer in Ric  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:04:33pm

re: #480 Peter Verkooijen

Umm, if their reformed they are not Nazi's. I wouldn't let my kids around a reformed pedophile.

483 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:04:44pm

#410: It's not about numbers. Numbers don't make right. I have for years at this blog been among the minority to say quite consistently that Islam isn't reformable and that it is a dangerous waste of time and money to pursue such a policy. I'm still right about that. I agree that there are real right-wing extremists, but most of the violent groups in Europe are left-wing extremists. Members of the Vlams Belang, this dangerous, extremist party, were harassed by the police on behalf of the Eurabian establishment in Brussels on 9/11.

484 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:05:11pm

re: #480 Peter Verkooijen

re: #460 Ledger1


Is Charles correct? VB and SD have not reformed.Is Pamela correct? VB and SD have reformed.

I do not know. Both have made good cases.

Would you work with a "reformed" nazi party?

Some of us here with mixed-ethnic families are absolutely clear on that question.

485 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:05:56pm

re: #460 Ledger1

Look upstream where I posted one of SD"s principles, read it and see if you can say they've reformed.

486 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:06:03pm

re: #477 Killgore Trout

re: #474 albusteve

He's a very interesting witter, rather dark but thoughtful.

I like sex blood and guts tho...I'm way beneath dark and thoughtful

487 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:08:16pm

re: #434 Killgore Trout

Abortion/Nazi/Friday Night/Full Moon Thread!
/It's raining frogs!

DRINK!

488 ubercheesehead  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:08:34pm

re: #473 razorbacker

re: 451 albusteve


btw my IQ is 167

Being able to state that you have a high IQ is nice. Not as nice as having others deduce that you have a high IQ, but nice;)


I think albusteve was making jocular reference to the recently departed CharleySarte, who didn't want to talk to anyone with an IQ of less than 150.

489 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:08:59pm

re: #483 Fjordman

#410: It's not about numbers. Numbers don't make right. I have for years at this blog been among the minority to say quite consistently that Islam isn't reformable and that it is a dangerous waste of time and money to pursue such a policy. I'm still right about that. I agree that there are real right-wing extremists, but most of the violent groups in Europe are left-wing extremists. Members of the Vlams Belang, this dangerous, extremist party, were harassed by the police on behalf of the Eurabian establishment in Brussels on 9/11.

And they also have militants who wear uniforms correct?

490 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:09:15pm

re: #479 albusteve

good news!...maybe in the end you'll have to licence and register the Kid!

Why? For taking on the QOTFG? I don't *think* so. There are better ways to deal with bullies at this level.

491 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:09:43pm

I really really need to get a shutter lanyard....

Tonight's moon

492 Caliredst8r  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:10:07pm

re: #427 Charles

Sorry, won't happen again! Just got into a little chat about modern day Russia.

493 Ma Sands  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:10:39pm

re: #491 Thanos

That is lovely. :)

494 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:10:59pm
495 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:11:02pm

re: #488 ubercheesehead

re: #473 razorbacker


re: 451 albusteve

btw my IQ is 167

Being able to state that you have a high IQ is nice. Not as nice as having others deduce that you have a high IQ, but nice;)

I think albusteve was making jocular reference to the recently departed CharleySarte, who didn't want to talk to anyone with an IQ of less than 150.

I miss that toad...that was good stuff!

496 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:11:30pm
I just yelled at the pizza delivery guy.

Did her deserve it?

497 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:12:08pm
498 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:12:17pm
499 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:12:29pm

re: #481 Killgore Trout

re: #465 MandyManners

Instaupundit is a big fan of the Dangerous Book for Boys. We raise them wrong in this culture. To quote Tyler Durden.....


We're a generation of men raised by women.

I know. I know. I have those links you kindly provided. I'm looking into what I can but, I cannot pull a male figure outta' my file cabinet.

My dad's a rock-solid figure of a man who's always lived up to his familial obligations but, he's spent his life either hunting Soviet subs or helping to transform the nations telecommunications' infrastructure.

500 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:12:29pm

re: #493 Ma Sands

re: #491 Thanos

That is lovely. :)


Yes but blurry and too bright -- I really really need a shutter lanyard.

501 Ma Sands  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:12:37pm

re: #494 taxfreekiller

And so I shall, at least. Goodnight, tfk. :)

502 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:12:39pm
503 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:12:40pm

Sweden indubitably has a willing Nazi collaboration past.

/what is the criteria for individual/societal redemption and when do you accept the sincerity?

504 razorbacker  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:13:30pm

re: 488 ubercheesehead

I think albusteve was making jocular reference to the recently departed CharleySarte, who didn't want to talk to anyone with an IQ of less than 150.

If you are as short as I, a lot goes over your head. But I was just gigging albusteve.

Remember that old commercial "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful"? To me, the unspoken finishing sentence was "There are plenty of more valid reasons."

505 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:13:33pm

#496: Err, he.

506 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:13:52pm

A friend in need is a friend indeed.
I wish she used PayPal.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust
Bank of Georgetown
1054 31st Street, N.W.
Suite 18
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali Trust Tax Identification Number: 75-6826872

Thank you for your interest in assisting Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

For more information please contact: John Matteo (jmatteo@jackscamp.com) or Mackenzie McNaughton (mmcnaughton@jackscamp.com), representatives for Ms. Hirsi Ali. Telephone: 202-457-1600

Wire Transfer information

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Account Number: 1010054748
Bank of Georgetown
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Suite 18
Washington, DC 20007
Bank Telephone: 202-355-1200
Bank Routing Number: 054001712

507 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:14:06pm

re: #490 MandyManners

re: #479 albusteve


good news!...maybe in the end you'll have to licence and register the Kid!

Why? For taking on the QOTFG? I don't *think* so. There are better ways to deal with bullies at this level.

whats QOTFG?...I picture your little guy swaggering around with his own posse doing what he needs to do...no offense

508 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:14:09pm

re: #481 Killgore Trout

re: #465 MandyManners

Instaupundit is a big fan of the Dangerous Book for Boys. We raise them wrong in this culture. To quote Tyler Durden.....


We're a generation of men raised by women.

And, for fuck's sake. Please know that it is not my intention to fuck up my son just because I divorced his father who tried to kill me while I was pregnant.

509 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:14:45pm

re: #494 taxfreekiller

If it hasn't been said before, I nominate you, tfk, as official LGF poet. I don't always understand what you are saying but I get the feeling I should. The feeling of something just at the edge of understanding is the feeling I get when I read beautiful poetry.

510 Geepers  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:14:48pm

Cognito (#467),

Here's the deal: A reformed group of Nazis forever carries with them the stink of Nazism. Full stop. No need for us to invite that stink onto ourselves. It gives the other side ammunition that's uncomfortably legitimate.

I agree with that completely.

I have no intention of aligning with them and feel no need to.

What I'm just not getting is the desire from some on both sides who are now going out of their way to demonize the people who aren't taking up a white power banner or screaming racist scum.

511 Webler  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:15:09pm

Little Green Footballs under attack by The American Muslim.

[Link: www.theamericanmuslim.org...]

512 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:15:24pm

re: #481 Killgore Trout

Please, ignore my most recent post. My stinger was out, and I should not have directed it at you, KT. I apologize.

513 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:15:27pm

re: #498 song_and_dance_man

The line separating a religion from an expansionist political ideology has yet to be drawn clearly. There are a lot of people opposed to making the distinction, and yet it has to be made.

514 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:15:30pm
And they also have militants who wear uniforms correct?

I had never heard anything about that before you mentioned this claim. If you find information that confirms this, I'll read it.

515 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:15:30pm
516 Bobblehead  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:15:32pm

re: #491 Thanos

I really really need to get a shutter lanyard....

Tonight's moon

Thank you..that was beautiful.

517 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:15:42pm

re: #508 MandyManners

TMI?

518 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:16:21pm

re: #503 Killian Bundy

/what is the criteria for individual/societal redemption and when do you accept the sincerity?

Denounce the socialist state, and stop dressing up like Hitler.

519 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:16:36pm

The vindictive reactions to my posts questioning Sweden Democrats and Vlaams Belang have succeeded in one thing -- they've reinforced my opinion that something is very wrong with those groups.

Thank God I was born in America, and I can choose another path. Judging from the hate mail I've received over this issue, Europe is headed for disaster.

520 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:16:37pm

re: #512 MandyManners

GAH! I am NOT a complete ass. Only a partial one.

521 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:17:01pm

Wow, I just caught this bit at the end:

The swastika is much more frightening than the crescent because it is much more realistic.


I wonder if Esther gambles recreationally?

I guess she missed the entire Eurabia project going on under her nose, pushed by the "center" (in Europe, just a stone's throw from Lenin) Left.

She's so wrong about that, and calling SIOE "right-wing extremists" I can't trust anything she says in the entire piece.

522 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:17:23pm
523 datadude  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:17:27pm

re: #488 ubercheesehead
I (gulp) completely agree.

524 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:17:36pm

re: #519 Charles

Yes, thank God. Europe is in her death throes.

525 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:18:23pm

re: #483 Fjordman

Members of the Vlams Belang, this dangerous, extremist party, were harassed by the police on behalf of the Eurabian establishment in Brussels on 9/11.

The reasons for that are more clear now; They were outlawed in 2004 as an extremist hate group. They continue their racist and Anti-semitic connections and membership. This has been clearly demonstrated. The more you defend them, the more unreasonable you appear.

526 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:18:58pm

re: #508 MandyManners

Of course not, my dear.

527 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:19:02pm

re: #524 carbon footprint

re: #519 Charles

Yes, thank God. Europe is in her death throes.

"thank God"?

528 razorbacker  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:19:35pm
GAH! I am NOT a complete ass. Only a partial one.

Don't feel badly. There's a whole tribe of folks like that in Florida. Semiholes, I think they're called.

529 Bobblehead  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:19:38pm

re: #520 MandyManners

re: #512 MandyManners

GAH! I am NOT a complete ass. Only a partial one.

You are neither.

530 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:19:54pm

re: #508 MandyManners

At the risk of getting in the middle of something, I don't think anyone would fault you for the Kid not having a father around. From some of the stuff you've mentioned about your ex, it sounds like getting him out of the picture was the best thing you could have done for your son. As important as it is for children (especially boys) to have their father, sometimes it's just not possible. Who knows, you might have saved your son's life.

531 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:20:31pm
532 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:20:33pm
533 Blazer in Ric  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:20:38pm

re: #519 Charles

It's like I said in on a latter post Charles. We here in America have enough ammunition in the morality of our constitution, and religion than to go seeking final desperate solutions. The lust for absolute freedom is our defining, and redeemig trait, and we can do it without trading a fuhrer, for an ayatollah.

534 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:20:40pm

re: #527 Dead Sea Squirrel
Intending to highlight Charles' comment: "Thank God I was born in America" Not Thank God Europe is in her death throes. I realize that would have been read wrong after I posted.

535 datadude  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:20:48pm

re: #508 MandyManners
Err...um...yeah. I never thought that was your intent.
I like your posts, though...(please don't kill me)...

536 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:21:16pm
I don’t mind being slandered by people like Pipes or Little Green Footballs. Being called an anti-Semite by “Little Green Footballs” is like being called ugly by a pig.

From the TAM link above

537 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:21:18pm

re: #499 MandyManners


I know. I know. I have those links you kindly provided. I'm looking into what I can but, I cannot pull a male figure outta' my file cabinet.

You can do without the male but I just think it's important to understand what boys really are. I was raised in a house of women from the age of 15 and even though I don't have kids I find a lot of the new research into how to raise boys very interesting. It's worth looking into.

538 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:21:58pm

#521 Beagle:

I can't trust anything she says in the entire piece.

Thank you for pointing that out.

539 Blazer in Ric  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:22:09pm

re: #533 Blazer in Ric


Ayatollah for a Fuhrer. PIMF.

540 WindHorse  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:22:22pm

re: #520 MandyManners

Mandy, I think you should reiterate to your son the Golden Rule. It transcends the male/female thing..... I learned from a friend to repeat the "We don't do..... in our family." You will need to repeat this a thousand times.... but it will serve you (and him) well. When he asks why, you just go back to the Golden Rule.

541 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:22:30pm

re: #507 albusteve

re: #490 MandyManners


re: #479 albusteve

good news!...maybe in the end you'll have to licence and register the Kid!

Why? For taking on the QOTFG? I don't *think* so. There are better ways to deal with bullies at this level.

whats QOTFG?...I picture your little guy swaggering around with his own posse doing what he needs to do...no offense

Oh, no. No offense at all.

The Kid doesn't need to swagger, nor does he need a posse.

What happened was, that the QueenOfTheFirstGrade decided to pick on him for the Umpteenth Time. He got tired of her shit and jerk a wad of her hair.

542 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:22:43pm

re: #498 song_and_dance_man

re: #515 taxfreekiller

the past is past
its never present
in the present
pass that on past
this moment in time

What's done is done.
What's won is won.
What's lost is lost
and gone forever.

543 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:22:43pm

re: #536 Thanos

I don’t mind being slandered by people like Pipes or Little Green Footballs. Being called an anti-Semite by “Little Green Footballs” is like being called ugly by a pig.
From the TAM link above

It's Ray Hanania, the Saudi puppet.

544 Ashamed to be Dutch  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:23:03pm

re: #498 song_and_dance_man

re: #443 Ashamed to be Dutch

Not so sure, this can be solved if islam is put "under control" in the US.
If not, many may unfortunately turn to racism as an alternative way to fight back, this is one of the reasons that makes me feel the emergency to solve the problem in the US before anywhere else. Everywhere, "Political correctness" plays in the hands of the islamists.
Here in Europe, without islam being the main source of the "so called" racist problem the "perfect melting pot could possibly be achieved.

That's why I said the melting pot here shows some cracks.

But how can America with a constitution that allows dissent and redress of grievance suppress the ideology that wishes to destroy it? And if we are to deal with them as they should be dealt with it would grain against the very charter that has made America great. OK I'll throw out the word of the night...it is a dichotomy.

Political correctness is the grease that moves the skid of Islam here and the left are only too happy to slop it since they also have an agenda towards the 'victim' to grow their cause and political power, and the Muslim is a fine choice and example that serves their purpose. They have no idea of the dangerous ground they tread.

It is a dilemma that has no easy answers.

I fully second you, some drastic (and sometimes harsh) decisions need to be taken by all free democratic societies who intend to stay free, but witch and how ?...

545 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:24:00pm
546 Ledger1  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:24:04pm

re: #467 Cognito

re: #460 Ledger1


Is Charles correct? VB and SD have not reformed.

Is Pamela correct? VB and SD have reformed.

I do not know. Both have made good cases.


Here's the deal: A reformed group of Nazis forever carries with them the stink of Nazism. Full stop. No need for us to invite that stink onto ourselves. It gives the other side ammunition that's uncomfortably legitimate.

That point has been made. The stink is there.

The real danger is deceptive actions by VB an SD.

This could come in the form of gaining power – and then joining forces with the Jihads. Bingo, a nasty coalition is formed and people like Pam are out in the cold. It’s an old political trick.

I am not saying it will happen but it could.

547 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:24:17pm

re: #540 WindHorse

re: #520 MandyManners

Mandy, I think you should reiterate to your son the Golden Rule. It transcends the male/female thing..... I learned from a friend to repeat the "We don't do..... in our family." You will need to repeat this a thousand times.... but it will serve you (and him) well. When he asks why, you just go back to the Golden Rule.

That's one tool I use!

Civilizing the little beasities is a very hard job.

548 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:24:22pm

#525 Killgore Trout

For someone who claims to be an American, you sure do seem enthusiastic about banning political parties. That's what we - here in the United States - call unconstitutional.

549 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:24:23pm
550 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:24:25pm

re: #541 MandyManners

re: #507 albusteve


re: #490 MandyManners

re: #479 albusteve

good news!...maybe in the end you'll have to licence and register the Kid!

Why? For taking on the QOTFG? I don't *think* so. There are better ways to deal with bullies at this level.

whats QOTFG?...I picture your little guy swaggering around with his own posse doing what he needs to do...no offense

Oh, no. No offense at all.

The Kid doesn't need to swagger, nor does he need a posse.

What happened was, that the QueenOfTheFirstGrade decided to pick on him for the Umpteenth Time. He got tired of her shit and jerk a wad of her hair.

fucking chics

551 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:24:39pm

re: #543 Charles

re: #536 Thanos


I don’t mind being slandered by people like Pipes or Little Green Footballs. Being called an anti-Semite by “Little Green Footballs” is like being called ugly by a pig.
From the TAM link above

It's Ray Hanania, the Saudi puppet.


Yeah, I know -- just wanted to make sure you were aware.

552 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:25:15pm

re: #506 carbon footprint

Charles: from Hot Air; I know she is a friend of yours and ours.
I, for one, admire this woman.

553 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:25:19pm

#533: Ammunition is great, but what you first of all need is a realistic understanding of the enemy. Americans lack that, even the majority of the posters here at LGF.

554 Spiny Norman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:25:41pm

re: #511 Webler

Little Green Footballs under attack by The American Muslim.

[Link: www.theamericanmuslim.org...]

When will moderate Jewish American leaders denounce extremism?

Jewish extremist = not wanting to die at the hands of the Jihad and, most importantly, saying so in public. The idea of armed Jews is right off the table.

Ray Hanania can go f*ck his disingenuous anti-semitic self.

555 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:26:09pm
556 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:26:12pm

I read European literature and news every day. Some of it dense stuff, because that is how they write. Much is good. But they do consider all Americans (North and South) to be a bit stupid. And the fact that we frequently not only socialize, but marry outside of our race/ethnic/religious group is considered bizarre except to a few economists.

557 Le_Patriot  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:27:01pm

RE: T.A.M.
I read the article and it made me very angry. Since when is defending one's country known as "extremism"?

558 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:27:02pm

re: #553 Fjordman

you first of all need is a realistic understanding of the enemy. Americans lack that, even the majority of the posters here at LGF.

Remember what you said to Killgore? Insert that here.

559 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:27:17pm

re: #548 Beagle

Straw man; I never called for them to be banned, I just say we shouldn't support them. Try again.

560 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:27:22pm
561 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:27:29pm

And now for something completely different;

May I share with y'all a small example of historical amnesia?

This is from the Apple homepage that comes loaded as the default Safari homepage on my MacBook, and is updated every time you open Safari:

Born in China’s Sichuan province, the highly innovative illustrator and graphic designer Qian Qian uses Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, and other Mac software to create art that merges Eastern and Western influences from different eras—from classical Chinese painting and 1930s Shanghai advertising to Cultural Revolution aesthetics,

"Cultural Revolution aesthetics"?

CULTURAL REVOLUTION AESTHETICS?!

Why not Khmer Rouge aesthetics? Why not Stalinist Terror Famine aesthetics?

Why not Auschwitz aesthetics?

Sickening.

562 unclassifiable  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:27:38pm

I simply do not see where we are at the point where we have to have a united front.

If ever the number of armed Islams in active combat gets to critical mass (I "guesstimate" probably 2% - 5% of the total Muslim population -- 20 to 50 million) it will be imperative that some sort of united front will have to form to prevent world domination.

No doubt it will be the same "hold your nose" coalition that has been used for the 2 previous world wars.

But until then, adios if you want to go. You fight Islamofascism your way and we'll do it our way.

Take care.

563 Le_Patriot  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:27:38pm

re: #549 song_and_dance_man

They're mainly pissed because the football is crescent green.

/s


LOL

564 NY Nana  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:27:43pm

re: #511 Webler

Charles had a thread recently about the POS.

565 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:27:56pm

re: #553 Fjordman

Your mask is slipping.

566 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:28:00pm

re: #519 Charles

The vindictive reactions to my posts questioning Sweden Democrats and Vlaams Belang have succeeded in one thing -- they've reinforced my opinion that something is very wrong with those groups.

I'll admit, I haven't closely checked out these foreign political groups.

/are they even relevant to their constituency?

567 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:28:02pm

re: #553 Fjordman

#533: Ammunition is great, but what you first of all need is a realistic understanding of the enemy. Americans lack that, even the majority of the posters here at LGF.

And which one would be in the crapper further?

/facepalm

568 lummox  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:28:13pm

America cannot win the War on Fire!

tp[Link: whtww.imao.us...]

569 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:28:18pm

Hanania always responds this way. He needs to answer to his Saudi masters.

And he is a disgusting antisemite, one of the creatures who has been allowed to gain a tiny foothold in American media, looking for a larger foothold by attacking Daniel Pipes and me, among others.

570 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:28:20pm

Pigs are tasty. Pork is on the menu again tonite. heh,heh

571 Blazer in Ric  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:28:27pm

"Little Green Footballs under attack by The American Muslim."

I would wear it as a badge of honor.

Sorry, but where is all the outrage from the moderate muslims, here, and abroad?

572 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:29:29pm

re: #555 song_and_dance_man

Please see post #534.

573 Spiny Norman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:29:35pm

re: #524 carbon footprint

re: #519 Charles

Yes, thank God. Europe is in her death throes.

I think "death throes" would involve bloody violence on a wide scale; what we see now is a rapidly spreading malignancy that may or may not be treatable.

574 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:30:11pm

re: #542 experiencedtraveller

"The Town I Loved So Well"

575 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:30:50pm

I am not here to please Muslims. I do hope to educate them in the way the world is moving. They are being left behind, poor sods.

576 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:30:54pm
Remember what you said to Killgore? Insert that here.

Well, since I'm in the habit of being unpopular today, let me put it this way: If you really believe that exporting democracy to Iraq was a good thing and could have worked out then no, you don't understand the enemy.

577 munchkin  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:31:12pm

Guys, I really think that its time to give Charles a big, Lizard HUG.

All the issues aside, it must not have been a fun week for him. He's been maligned by friends for calling out these "reformed" Nazis, he's been driving around in thick smoke while fires raged in his home state, and he's been dealing with all of us (and God knows what else).

So Charles, *hug* and thank you.
you rawk.

578 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:31:22pm

re: #537 Killgore Trout

re: #499 MandyManners



I know. I know. I have those links you kindly provided. I'm looking into what I can but, I cannot pull a male figure outta' my file cabinet.

You can do without the male but I just think it's important to understand what boys really are.* I was raised in a house of women from the age of 15 and even though I don't have kids I find a lot of the new research into how to raise boys very interesting. It's worth looking into.

BINGO!*

I'm not enlisting in any drum-beating club for him but, I'll do whatever I must in order to give to God--and, the taxpayers of America--a decent man.

579 itellu3times  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:31:23pm

This whole thing makes my head hurt.

The American Revolution succeeded in large part because the leaders in Boston managed to keep it from being a mindless mob.

(compare and contrast to the French revolution, much less the Russian)

They succeeded by having a clear position that people could subscribe to positively. From about 1765 and the Stamp Act through Yorktown in 1781, we were terribly fortunate to have enough dedicated, brilliant, and reasonable politicians - to give the movement a heart and a mind.

May I suggest that if there is going to be a coherent anti-Islamic movement it has to be pro-something, and OF COURSE it does not want idiots bring swastikas to their events. What? Wouldn't it be better if we all wore our favorite blog shirts, sports logos, and ecological banners in one big kumbaya mob? No. That's fun for show, perhaps, but a serious movement needs some serious discipline. Not that it's easy - it's not.

My point is to focus on the positive, to build a movement with a message, and to avoid being hijacked by anyone. Then let people judge and join on the positive message.

End of screed.

580 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:31:49pm
581 jaunte  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:31:49pm

re: #566 Killian Bundy

FWIW, Some background from Brussels Journal.
[Link: www.brusselsjournal.com...]

The Vlaams Belang is a unique phenomenon unlikely to occur elsewhere, except perhaps if the European Union should ever develop into a fully fledged federal superstate. Then one could easily imagine a kind of pan-European Vlaams Belang which would oppose multiculturalism and islamisation while at the same time aiming for the abolishment of the European superstate and the reestablishment of the old, former nation-states.

The Vlaams Belang’s opposition to Belgium and the European Union are motivated by the same considerations. It considers multi-national Belgium, an artificial state constructed by the European powers in 1831, to be the prototype of the federal European state that Eurofederalists want to establish. The Vlaams Belang opposes Brussels and does not really differentiate between Brussels as the capital of Belgium and Brussels as the capital of Europe. It sees both Belgium and Europe – in other words Brussels and Brussels – as enemies of Flanders and of the Flemish people, whose national identity these enemies want to subvert and destroy.

According to the Vlaams Belang – and its success in conveying this message explains its continuous electoral successes – immigrants are being used by the Belgian establishment as a weapon against the Flemings. In other words immigration has been deliberately promoted with the goal of undermining national loyalties which people adhere to because it gives meaning to fundamental existential questions such as “Who are we? What is our identity?”

582 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:31:49pm

Hanania is lashing out because of this post about one of his blatantly antisemitic articles for the Saudi royal family's mouthpiece, ArabNews:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

583 Beagle  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:31:54pm

re: #559 Killgore Trout

re: #548 Beagle

Straw man; I never called for them to be banned, I just say we shouldn't support them. Try again.


You bolstered your argument by noting a Socialist government in Brussels - most noted for gonad holds - made them illegal. If you raise something to bolster an argument, traditionally that means you support it. Or you can try to weasel out later...

584 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:32:06pm

re: #571 Blazer in Ric

"Little Green Footballs under attack by The American Muslim."

I would wear it as a badge of honor.

Sorry, but where is all the outrage from the moderate muslims, here, and abroad?

there are no moderate Muslims

585 dogbreath  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:32:19pm

Reject racism, good. But say what and who you are rejecting, not just another “ism.” The word has become cheap. Some people will tell you that anything and everything is racist.
Racism is a declaration that “we” are superior. And that “they” are inferior. A lot of people confuse this declaration with any assertion that one thing is better than another. Wrong. Racism says that “they” (not necessarily a race) are lesser beings. Which is different than saying, “our” way of doing things is better. For example, I think Western civilization is superior, but that doesn’t mean that Western people are superior. Our civilization is superior in part because it has evolved to the point that it accepts all humans as equal beings. This issue does not divide the Right; it defines the Right.

586 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:32:24pm

re: #576 Fjordman

Still slipping.

587 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:32:28pm

re: #577 munchkin

Guys, I really think that its time to give Charles a big, Lizard HUG.

All the issues aside, it must not have been a fun week for him. He's been maligned by friends for calling out these "reformed" Nazis, he's been driving around in thick smoke while fires raged in his home state, and he's been dealing with all of us (and God knows what else).

So Charles, *hug* and thank you.
you rawk.

Amen!

588 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:32:51pm

re: #553 Fjordman

#533: Ammunition is great, but what you first of all need is a realistic understanding of the enemy. Americans lack that, even the majority of the posters here at LGF.

That's right, as you said yourself, the U.S, is on the verge of outright civil war.

/Don't Stop Believing, God I hate Journey

589 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:33:03pm

re: #573 Spiny Norman

I can see it your way as well as mine; death throes to me means the last breaths. Our European friends are in deep trouble.

590 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:33:09pm

re: #550 albusteve


With all due respect, that was a kid. What kind of language is that to use?

591 Le_Patriot  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:33:25pm

re: #511 Webler

Little Green Footballs under attack by The American Muslim.

[Link: www.theamericanmuslim.org...]

______________________________
"The failure of American Jewish leaders to denounce these groups – and Pipes and “Little Green Footballs” represent only the tip of the ugly iceberg of hatred – implies that maybe, just maybe American Jewish leaders really do not support peace based on compromise."

Compromise? Compromise? STFU and quit shooting rockets into Israel and blowing up pizza parlors. No land should be given to the barbaric thugs. They don't belong there. Compromise my ass! GTFO & STFU
/I'm not Jewish but it had to be said. Asshat!

592 DirtyDog  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:33:29pm

I fear that I will watch Europe burn in the near future. Paris, Berlin, Rome... all aflame. Then, it'll be North Africa's turn. Then the Middle East. I only hope that we'll be able to keep it from spreading enough to keep from pronouncing it a World War.

593 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:34:15pm

re: #577 munchkin
Amen, Charles Johnson is in the top five of people that I admire in this world.

594 WindHorse  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:34:18pm

This thread demonstrates the stability of a non-linear damped second-order system with randomly fluctuating restoring coefficients...... type thing....

595 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:34:19pm

re: #577 munchkin

Guys, I really think that its time to give Charles a big, Lizard HUG.

All the issues aside, it must not have been a fun week for him. He's been maligned by friends for calling out these "reformed" Nazis, he's been driving around in thick smoke while fires raged in his home state, and he's been dealing with all of us (and God knows what else).

So Charles, *hug* and thank you.
you rawk.

Not to mention having to swing his banning stick like a frickin' tennis racquet.

596 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:34:43pm

re: #576 Fjordman

Pulling out the map of Iran and the countries around it is very revealing when you look at where our bases are.

Iraq had little to do with installing democracy......

597 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:34:55pm

Fjordman, you're quite arrogant, but I've always excused that for the quality of posts you bring here. I do hope you will cease insulting us, though.

And you don't understand the spirit of free people.

598 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:35:00pm

re: #519 Charles

Charles sometime around Cartoongate when everyone was supporting everything Denmark I got in a snarky fight with a few Euro RWers on the subject of Nazi influence in modern Europe late in a thread. I'd link to it but searching through the archives seems to limit searches to the last month only. Anyway, I was kinda surprised how fast posters I had never heard of came to the dead thread and started mouthing off.

599 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:35:03pm
there are no moderate Muslims

A few, perhaps, but what's more important is that there is no moderate Islam.

600 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:35:04pm

re: #595 Dead Sea Squirrel

I wonder if you can get banning elbow?

601 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:35:10pm

re: #524 carbon footprint

re: #519 Charles

Yes, thank God. Europe is in her death throes.

That is absolutely, positively NOT something to be celebrated. Sick.

602 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:35:14pm

Damn! Giants are stumbling.

603 Kevin Shook  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:35:58pm

I think tonight's discussion is evidence of how different racism has been dealt with on the two sides of the Atlantic. The American Experiment has, until recently, actively encouraged assimilation, while the European Socialist system has discourage if not prevented it. Racism in the US is confronted on a personal level, while in Europe, laws are passed and then it is largely ignored. I think that those in the US calling for universal health care, government controlled retirement accounts, redistribution of wealth through taxes, multi-culturalism, hate-crime laws, outlawing gun ownership and the removal of religion from the public sphere, should take a long hard look at Europe and see what the results are.

604 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:36:08pm

re: #576 Fjordman

What is with you and putting words in my mouth? Where did I say that?

And while we're at it- you never answered me the other day. Is winning so important that you, fjordman, would even align with racists and/or anti-Semites?

605 ornery elephant  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:36:09pm

And the net result of all of this? We take our eyes off the ball.

I'm a huge supporter of Israel. I refer to the Jews as "G_d's Chosen People" and yet, I must say this. You could probably fit all of the authentic Nazi slime in Europe in a gymnasium in Newark and at the same time 3 billion islamofascists are laffing their asses off at this diversion.

606 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:36:34pm

re: #590 Highrise

re: #550 albusteve


With all due respect, that was a kid. What kind of language is that to use?

poor taste maybe...but I think Mandy gets it

607 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:37:18pm

re: #583 Beagle

Ah, ok I see where you're coming from now. It's true that things like holocaust denial are illegal in Europe, I wouldn't advocate that here in the US. However, VB and SD have clearly shown sympathy towards the Nazis and in the European climate are considered dangerous and Illegal. I'm not passing judgment on this one way or the other but the reformation of VB was not voluntary, it was court ordered.

608 Blazer in RIC  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:37:23pm

re: #582 Charles

So Ray is a mouthpiece of the Sauds? The House of Saud better pray we take out Al-Qaida, and keep Iran in check. The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend where these two are concerned.

609 itellu3times  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:37:24pm
do not support peace based on compromise

As in, "what's mine is mine and what's in dar al-harb is negotiable"? No, in general, that is not what I support.

610 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:37:48pm
611 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:37:55pm

re: #601 Occasional Reader

Shit. Please see my post #524.

612 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:37:56pm

re: #601 Occasional Reader

He didn't mean it the way it sounded. He was replying "Thank God" to something Charles said and then added his opinion of what was happening in Europe. Carbon footprint explained upthread when he realized how bad it looked.

613 lummox  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:38:05pm

Ok , let's try again.

America cannot win the War on Fire!

imao.us/archives/008989.html

Comments are a gas.

614 piehole  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:38:24pm

IF the information on this wiki page is correct, Raes is a standing member of VB and a prominent Holocaust denier.

Roeland Raes

The old saying that past behavior is a reliable predictor of future behavior comes to mind...

615 David Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:38:28pm

re: #545 taxfreekiller

Ya, but, pigs are way smart.

And apparently they can talk - at least according to Ray Hanania.

Being called an anti-Semite by “Little Green Footballs” is like being called ugly by a pig.

Rotating title if I've ever heard one.

616 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:38:46pm

Since the racists have mostly been vanquished I offer a a special Bollywood clip of the day.....
chaiya chaiya

He who walks in the shadow of love,
has paradise beneath his feet.


/I dig her hips.

617 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:38:55pm

re: #601 Occasional Reader

re: #524 carbon footprint

re: #519 Charles

Yes, thank God. Europe is in her death throes.

That is absolutely, positively NOT something to be celebrated. Sick.

carbon footprint was replying to my comment, "Thank God I was born in America."

618 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:07pm

re: #612 stranded conservative

Thank you my friend.

619 Blazer in RIC  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:14pm

re: #584 albusteve

Extremist Muslim: One who takes the field

Moderate Muslim: One who buys the tickets, or sits down in front of the tube with popcorn, cheering them on.

620 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:20pm

re: #553 Fjordman

#533: Ammunition is great, but what you first of all need is a realistic understanding of the enemy. Americans lack that, even the majority of the posters here at LGF.

Just because we don't subscribe to your crisis model doesn't mean we have little understanding. Do you read Islamic newspapers and sites every single day and night like I do? Do you know what the difference is between HiJ, HeI, and JeM? Why did Iran house Hekmatyar after he killed 10,000 Shia Hazara, do you have a clue?

How many terror attacks has Sweden had ? How many have we had, including the ones interupted? Whose troops are on the battlefronts?

621 datadude  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:23pm

re: #570 pat
Yep. BLT's ROCK! Not to mention garlic-infused,
mushroom covered (saturated) pork tenderloin. And
hey, my latino hermanos out there: can you join me in
sayin' CHICHARRONESSS! Or how 'bout just plain
ol' tasty BACON!? Or how 'bout those (Aahh wonmahh
babybak babybak babybak babybak babybak babybak)
tender, fallin'-off-the-bone (I'M JUST SAYIINNN'!) RIBZZ!

622 Geepers  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:28pm

Fjordman (#576),

Well, since I'm in the habit of being unpopular today, let me put it this way: If you really believe that exporting democracy to Iraq was a good thing and could have worked out then no, you don't understand the enemy.

Interesting use of tense you've got going on there.

Muslims are trying to export sharia, the US is exporting freedom.

And the best EUrope can do is hope that they aren't overrun before they die of old age.

623 stranded conservative  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:28pm

Okay, night all. My computer clock is an hour early and I just realized that it's close to midnight.

624 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:31pm

re: #577 munchkin

...
So Charles, *hug* and thank you.
you rawk.

Yes, big hug Charles! - in a totally manly, non-gay way.

625 WindHorse  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:38pm

re: #610 taxfreekiller

I don't know..... it does seem that things are (slowly) settling out....

626 freedomplow  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:55pm

Ayaan Hirsi Ali now accepting donations for security

Allow her to speak to a Joint session of the United States Congress...

Topic: Islam.

After her speech take a vote...

Pay for this womans security... Yea.

Deny her security... Nay.

Make it happen GOP.

Time to grow a pair.

The GOP must stand for Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Lincoln freed the slaves.

Bush will free the slaves of Islam.

627 razorbacker  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:39:56pm

re: 556 Pat

And the fact that we frequently not only socialize, but marry outside of our race/ethnic/religious group is considered bizarre

In a lot of Amerindians languages, the word for their tribe roughly translates as "human" or "people". The funny thing is, there was quite a bit of intermarriage. If a youngster was captured early enough, they were simply raised as one of the tribe. Captured adults often underwent specific rituals to become one of the "people". This is necessary in order to broaden the gene pool and avoid unpleasant mutations.

So don't knock mongrels. All herdsmen recognize the necessity of bring in a new bloodline from time to time.

And now to the hot tub, a soothing libation, and bed.

628 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:40:16pm

re: #604 Sharmuta

re: #576 Fjordman

What is with you and putting words in my mouth? Where did I say that?

And while we're at it- you never answered me the other day. Is winning so important that you, fjordman, would even align with racists and/or anti-Semites?

Sometimes he replies to comments referring to only the post number, not the posters nic. How Euro.

629 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:40:33pm

re: #612 stranded conservative

re: #601 Occasional Reader

He didn't mean it the way it sounded. He was replying "Thank God" to something Charles said and then added his opinion of what was happening in Europe. Carbon footprint explained upthread when he realized how bad it looked.

If so, then I apologize to carbon for my misreading of that post.

630 Caliredst8r  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:40:44pm

re: #601 Occasional Reader

I don't think Occasional Reader was thanking God that Europe is in it's death throes, I think he was agreeing with Charles about being born in the US, and that Europe is in it's death throes.

631 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:40:50pm

re: #617 Charles

Thank you Charles Johnson, and thanks for your never ending supply of passion and patriotism. A lesser man would have burned out five years ago

632 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:40:56pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

I blame you for my love of that song. :)

633 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:41:11pm

I think that here, in the US, if we restrict Muslim immigration, we can keep them below the critical mass they have apparently reached in parts of Europe, and keep them out of Muslim ghettoes where the radicals can find and reinforce each other. Most will eventually become cultural Muslims, not eating pork, getting married at the mosque, but not bearing the true malignancy that is at the heart of true Koranic Islam. I think it also helps that many of the foreign born Muslims who do come here are professionals, and realize that life here is preferable to life in most of the Islamic world.

Of course, we're also in a little better shape than Europe, as far as having roughly a sufficient birth rate to maintain enough young people to enter the work force, without having to import too many. Now, we are allowing more Mexicans into this country than I am comfortable with, (and boy, we need to have air-tight border security before we can even discuss a limited amnesty) and some clearly have no interest in assimilating, but at least most of the Mexicans have a common Christian heritage.


My wife's family has some first generation Mexicans, and they are assimilating, down to deer hunting, NFL football, beer drinking and seeing Hank Williams Junior concerts at the rodeo.

634 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:41:35pm

re: #529 Bobblehead

re: #530 stranded conservative

Oh, thank you. There I was, a few minutes ago, feeling all defensive at some utterly imagnined accusation that I was a bad mom because I didn't have.. couldn't have... ah, shit.

I did the only thing I could do in order to live, and to keep The Fetus viable.

Why the hell am I bitching? Am I bitching? I've a son who's earned a 97.5 for the quarter. I have no reason to bitch. Do I?

Ack.

But, it's deeper than the GPA.

I wanna' be President of the United States of America. I need the vacation.

635 Caliredst8r  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:42:11pm

PIMF: I don't mean Occasional Reader, I meant Carbon Footprint. My daughter is reading something to me as I'm trying to type...lol

636 ornery elephant  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:42:15pm

re: #619 Blazer in RIC

re: #584 albusteve

Extremist Muslim: One who takes the field

Moderate Muslim: One who buys the tickets, or sits down in front of the tube with popcorn, cheering them on.

OR....

Extemist Muslim: One who is beheading infidels

Moderate Muslim: One who seeks to order beheading of infidels as a newly elected senator or representative

637 itellu3times  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:42:38pm
Being called an anti-Semite by “Little Green Footballs” is like being called ugly by a pig.

Is that why Muslims don't eat pigs, because of the insults?

638 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:43:07pm

re: #550 albusteve

re: #541 MandyManners


re: #507 albusteve

re: #490 MandyManners

re: #479 albusteve

good news!...maybe in the end you'll have to licence and register the Kid!

Why? For taking on the QOTFG? I don't *think* so. There are better ways to deal with bullies at this level.

whats QOTFG?...I picture your little guy swaggering around with his own posse doing what he needs to do...no offense

Oh, no. No offense at all.
The Kid doesn't need to swagger, nor does he need a posse.

What happened was, that the QueenOfTheFirstGrade decided to pick on him for the Umpteenth Time. He got tired of her shit and jerk a wad of her hair.


fucking chics

Of, fer fuck's sake. She's seven.

639 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:43:08pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout


/I dig her hips.

Nice tummy, too.

640 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:43:23pm

re: #629 Occasional Reader

Not a big deal; I realized after I posted that it could be misread.

641 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:43:27pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

Since the racists have mostly been vanquished I offer a a special Bollywood clip of the day.....
chaiya chaiya

He who walks in the shadow of love,
has paradise beneath his feet.

/I dig her hips.

Yowza.

Rarely, if ever, has underdeveloped mass transit looked so good.

(That song is used to good effect as them music in Spike Lee's Inside Man, in case you haven't seen it.)

642 lummox  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:43:38pm

I can't get the linky thing to work tonight. Says "website is using a scripted window to ask for information" Link highlights in blue but doesn't work in the post.

Can anyone clue me whats up?

At any rate the link is worth a cut & paste. It's hilarious.

643 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:43:45pm
644 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:44:01pm

re: #529 Bobblehead

re: #520 MandyManners


re: #512 MandyManners

GAH! I am NOT a complete ass. Only a partial one.


You are neither.

*smoochies*

645 Blazer in RIC  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:44:48pm

re: #636 ornery elephant

I like mine better, it's less morose, and plus I like football.

Yours, just made me semi-piss my pants.

646 Geepers  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:44:55pm

Ray Hanania says:

I support Israel’s right to exist, denounce anti-Semitism and Holocaust revisionism. Where is the mainstream moderate Jewish American counterpart who can stand up and denounce the vicious racism from pro-Israel sites that target moderate Arabs like myself?

Always the victim.

Isn't there anyone out there that will defend poor pitiful Ray from the meanies that are picking on him?

647 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:45:22pm
648 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:45:27pm

If I can add in a diversion for a Friday Night.

I can't believe how much I am digging the new Foo Fighters song The Pretender. Amazing song. Foo Fighters are becoming one of the truly great rock bands if for no other reason than Dave Grohl's rock and roll songwriting is the best of his time.

649 carbon footprint  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:45:40pm

re: #630 Caliredst8r

Thank you as well; this is why I love conservatives; we tend to seek justice rather than political gain.

650 WindHorse  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:45:59pm

draining a carbuncle sometimes takes awhile.....

651 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:46:05pm

re: #626 freedomplow

Ayaan Hirsi Ali now accepting donations for security

Allow her to speak to a Joint session of the United States Congress...

Topic: Islam.

After her speech take a vote...

Pay for this womans security... Yea.

Deny her security... Nay.

Make it happen GOP.

Time to grow a pair.

The GOP must stand for Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Lincoln freed the slaves.

Bush will free the slaves of Islam.

THANK YOU for that link... Charles, I humbly suggest that this should be a thread. If Ayaan is accepting donations to pay for her security, then it is time, as Morgan Freeman's character states in the film Glory, for us all to ante up LIKE MEN... LIKE MEN!

652 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:46:08pm

Killgore Trout:

Your mask is slipping.

Again, I've said in pretty much every single post on the subject for years that Islam cannot be reformed. It's not something I suddenly started doing now.

Noam:

Fjordman, you're quite arrogant, but I've always excused that for the quality of posts you bring here. I do hope you will cease insulting us, though.

I'm not here to insult anybody, I'm here to win. I write much more critical essays about Europe, including my own country, than I do about the USA. If I say that most Americans still don't understand the enemy then that's not insulting, it's true. If you still try to export democracy to the Islamic world, win their hearts and minds and continue Muslim immigration as if 9/11 never happened, you will continue to be on the defensive.

653 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:46:13pm

re: #526 pat

re: #508 MandyManners

Of course not, my dear.

*smoochies* *smoochies*

654 ornery elephant  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:47:34pm

re: #645 Blazer in RIC

re: #636 ornery elephant

I like mine better, it's less morose, and plus I like football.

Yours, just made me semi-piss my pants.

LOL

I like football too but i'm still working on my New Year's Resolution to cut down on sports metaphors.

655 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:47:44pm

re: #652 Fjordman

You are the spin meister. Bravo.

656 ctrlL  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:48:45pm

re: #594 WindHorse

This thread demonstrates the stability of a non-linear damped second-order system with randomly fluctuating restoring coefficients...... type thing....

Either you just watched "NUMBERS" or you star in it and those were your lines.
/ iow, huh?

657 TalkinKamel  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:49:13pm

I'm sorry to see that Dymphna, over at Gates of Vienna, has come out supporting Vlaams Belang.

Of course, I think she started to go around the bend in an earlier post, when she criticized Hirsi Ali, and said she didn't deserve special protection.

658 David Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:49:22pm

re: #603 Kevin Shook

I think that those in the US calling for universal health care, government controlled retirement accounts, redistribution of wealth through taxes, multi-culturalism, hate-crime laws, outlawing gun ownership and the removal of religion from the public sphere, should take a long hard look at Europe and see what the results are.

Yes, but they could also look at the messes they've created at home: social security, welfare et al. Those programs are unmitigated disasters, yet they still think the solution to every problem is...a big government program!

659 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:49:45pm

re: #585 dogbreath

Reject racism, good. But say what and who you are rejecting, not just another “ism.” The word has become cheap. ... Racism says that “they” (not necessarily a race) are lesser beings. Which is different than saying, “our” way of doing things is better. For example, I think Western civilization is superior, but that doesn’t mean that Western people are superior. Our civilization is superior in part because it has evolved to the point that it accepts all humans as equal beings. This issue does not divide the Right; it defines the Right.

Huh?! That makes no sense.

You're redefining racism to claim the word for "the Right"? Why?!

Racism IS necessarily about race. It's in the word!

I don't need racism to defend western civilization. Racism goes against the ideals and values of western civilization.

islam is not a race, it's an ideology. I hate islam. Hating islam is not racism.

660 itellu3times  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:49:46pm

re: #648 Mich-again

If I can add in a diversion for a Friday Night.

I can't believe how much I am digging the new Foo Fighters song The Pretender. Amazing song. Foo Fighters are becoming one of the truly great rock bands if for no other reason than Dave Grohl's rock and roll songwriting is the best of his time.

They're a great group, it's a great song, but you have no idea how much Los Angeles station KROQ played it over the last month. I think they probably set a record, and probably doubled whatever their old record was.

Set a record, heh.

661 dentate  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:49:57pm

Interesting commentary by Caroline Glick (who, admittedly, habitually sees the glass more than half empty) on worldwide stirrings suggesting an attack on Iran is in the works:

Preventing World War III

662 albusteve  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:49:59pm

re: #638 MandyManners

I declare uncle

663 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:50:39pm
664 WindHorse  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:50:56pm

re: #656 ctrlL

Sorry... I disconnected my cable in 1997 and have no clue about what you are talking about...

I was just reflecting on this thread... watching pertebations.... and seeing how this thread evolved.....

665 Edouard  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:51:13pm

re: #553 Fjordman

#533: Ammunition is great, but what you first of all need is a realistic understanding of the enemy. Americans lack that, even the majority of the posters here at LGF.

Speaking as someone with "one foot on each continent", I deplore this astonishingly overgeneralized sentiment about Americans and reject it utterly.

Yet more European patronizing of Americans -- Et tu, Fjordman ? :(

666 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:51:18pm

Mich-again: I really like that recording too. Just posted the video, thanks.

667 freedomplow  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:51:40pm

We are not afraid.
We are pissed off.

668 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:52:39pm

re: #535 datadude

re: #508 MandyManners
Err...um...yeah. I never thought that was your intent.
I like your posts, though...(please don't kill me)...

I appreciate your sentiments! Thank you.

669 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:53:11pm

re: #640 carbon footprint

re: #629 Occasional Reader

Not a big deal; I realized after I posted that it could be misread.

In my defense, I'll point out that I have two Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPAs under my belt... this just may have affected my judgment a wee bit...

Sorry, again.

670 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:53:14pm

re: #576 Fjordman

Remember what you said to Killgore? Insert that here.

Well, since I'm in the habit of being unpopular today, let me put it this way: If you really believe that exporting democracy to Iraq was a good thing and could have worked out then no, you don't understand the enemy.


Gotta take issue with you on that. We exported democracy to Germany and Japan, Ataturk brought it to Turkey. So, it can be done.

671 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:53:52pm

ooooh CHARLES GOT THE ANTICHRIST POST! Is this a first?

672 hazzyday  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:54:27pm

re: #496 Fjordman

I just yelled at the pizza delivery guy.

Did her deserve it?

I find it hard to believe i yelled at a pizza.

673 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:55:21pm

re: #666 Charles

Mich-again: I really like that recording too. Just posted the video, thanks.

Sweet.

674 blackpajamas  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:55:21pm

re: #306 Fjordman

I just pointed out that ...

Silence at the proper season is wisdom, and better than any speech.

675 hazzyday  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:55:36pm

re: #671 Occasional Reader

ooooh CHARLES GOT THE ANTICHRIST POST! Is this a first?


Doesn't it alway roll that way?

676 Idle Drifter  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:55:58pm

re: #621 datadude

re: #570 pat
Yep. BLT's ROCK! Not to mention garlic-infused,
mushroom covered (saturated) pork tenderloin. And
hey, my latino hermanos out there: can you join me in
sayin' CHICHARRONESSS! Or how 'bout just plain
ol' tasty BACON!? Or how 'bout those (Aahh wonmahh
babybak babybak babybak babybak babybak babybak)
tender, fallin'-off-the-bone (I'M JUST SAYIINNN'!) RIBZZ!

Please don't tease me. I'm moving out of my apartment within the next few days and I'm avoiding any major cooking..... mmmmmmmmmmmmm-garlic-infused-mushroom-cover-pork-t enderloin....(throat gargling noise with tongue hanging out)

677 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:56:45pm
678 ornery elephant  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:56:53pm

re: #655 Sharmuta

re: #652 Fjordman

You are the spin meister. Bravo.

I'm assuming that "meister" is a typo. I sure hope so.

679 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:57:00pm

I don't know if there can really be moderate Muslims, if they are true to the Islam of the Koran and the Hadith. I understand the Sufi are less violent than the Sunni and Shia, Baha'ai is an offshoot of Islam that had a second prophet who toned down the violence, I live a few miles from an Ahmadiyya masjid, they are a Muslim sect banned in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan who reject violent jihad because they believe the Mahdi came to India a century ago and taught against it.


But for the mainstream Islamic sects, it is hard to be a true believer and reject violent jihad against the infidel.


But, we can always hope assimilation produces 'cultural Muslims'. Like 'Cafeteria Catholics'. Rudy Giuliani would be a good example, he self identifies as a Catholic but rejects the churches teachings. A 'cultural Catholic. Ditto John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi and Ted 'The DWI Killer' Kennedy. Andrew Zimmern has a TV show, on which he self identifies as a "Jewish boy from New York', but travels the world eating intentionally disgusting foods, including various forms of pork and animal blood. He would be what I'd consider to be a 'cultural Jew'.

So, if we have low enough Muslim immigration, most will assimilate, and become 'cultural Muslims'. I am sure a few will adopt the more violent, fundamentalist Islam, and any Muslim preacher who advocates violence or the overthrow of the US government needs to be deported, if not American, or jailed, if he is an American.

But, at least for now, I don't think it is too late to keep America safe from home grown Islamic extremists.

680 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:57:15pm

And I give thanks for kerravon.

/just checked, odious

681 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 8:58:55pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

Since the racists have mostly been vanquished I offer a a special Bollywood clip of the day.....
chaiya chaiya
He who walks in the shadow of love,
has paradise beneath his feet.


/I dig her hips.

Wow :-)

682 Kevin Shook  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:00:03pm

re: #576 Fjordman

Americans may not "understand the enemy" as you put it, but you clearly don't understand us. The preamble of the Declaration of Independence states:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

We Americans take those words to heart. We may not fulfill those words at all points in our history, but we as a nation have striven to live up to them. There are no exceptions to those truths. Yes, Islam is a problem but if we don't try to "export democracy", as you put it, what is the alternative? Let the Middle East fester in its hatred like it has done since the end of World War I?

683 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:00:31pm

fjordman said:

I will support any serious, civilized measure non-Muslims do anywhere to contain Islam. I always have, and I always will.

Sharmuta said:

Even if that means aligning yourself with racists and/or anti-Semites?

fjordman said:

I've already said quite clearly that I will never make common cause with anti-Semites. Besides, it's a mute point, since anti-Semites are almost Muslims in my book, anyway. We don't have any "common cause."

Emphasis mine. First- it's not a mute point. Second- and the racists?

684 Blazer in RIC  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:00:41pm

re: #654 ornery elephant

Me too, my wife hates it. Now sports itself thats another thing.

685 TalkinKamel  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:00:54pm

#553 Fjordman

Don't generalize about Americans, Fjordman; there are a lot of us, we have many, differeing opinions but I suspect that, flawed as our actions have been, we have a more realistic understanding of the enemy that Europeans do.

One generalization about Americans I feel fairly safe making: after World Wars I & II, a lot of us are deeply suspicious of all the totalitarian movements Europe has produced throughout the 20th Century---and which usually result in us having to go to war, either in hot or cold mode, to save ourselves and the rest of civilization.

Tut-tutting that we don't really understand the enemy is not going to calm our suspicions; no, a lot of us don't trust right-wing, racist groups; why should we?

686 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:01:19pm

re: #677 song_and_dance_man

Instilling democracy in Iraq is not as important as having the American military one border away from Iran.

Berthing democracy at the schism point of Islam (which also happens to be afloat in oil) is noble and intelligent enough itself.

687 therewaslight  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:01:33pm

re: #633 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

I think that here, in the US, if we restrict Muslim immigration, we can keep them below the critical mass they have apparently reached in parts of Europe,

Critical mass? What do you mean?

Muslims do not have power. Ever seen the European Commission... looked inside the European Parliament? They're (practically) all white.

The EU is an institutionally racist, white Euro, elitist government. Right now they have fairly good intentions but putting so much power in the hands of so few (read up on EU Reform treaty) is a ladder for fascism.

Islam is developing a parallel society in Europe. It's likely to become a separate community de jure, given "devolved powers" over its own than take power over the Europeans. Apart from anything else Islamists don't want to be a part of the EU system - they filter themselves out.

Contrary to fjordman then, I don't believe there will be a civil war since 1. Asians/Muslims and Euros are too different (thus a split rather than fight). 2. they don't threaten the Euro's status since they will settle for their own system (power, vested in the white, elitist, bureaucracy of the EU, being far out of reach). The Nazis did not like the Jews because they were culturally quite similar but far more successful, and threatened their sense of superiority. The Muslims are very different and Euros are more successful.

The dangerous, evil thing - Europe would probably be willing to sacrifice Israel if the (oil) price was right. One suspects that might be the case whether the Islamists had any influence on foreign policy, or not. Thus Charles is right not to take his eye off the ball; be very aware of the anti-semitism latent in them Euros.

688 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:01:38pm

Sharmuta: No, I would never align myself with anti-Semites, and the people I have met from the VB so far didn't strike me as anti-Semites. The VB is critically important for undermining the EU.

Geppers:

Muslims are trying to export sharia, the US is exporting freedom.

Yes, but "freedom" to a Muslim is identical to sharia. And since sharia means oppressing women and non-Muslims, that's what freedom means to Muslims. Look at what is happening in Iraq.

Edouard:

Yet more European patronizing of Americans -- Et tu, Fjordman ? :(

I probably spend 90% of my time criticizing Europeans, usually because they deserve it more. I'm just saying that you are making mistakes, too.

689 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:02:23pm

Some of you are going red on red,

690 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:03:03pm

re: #688 Fjordman

And the racists?

691 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:03:46pm

re: #641 Occasional Reader

re: #616 Killgore Trout


Since the racists have mostly been vanquished I offer a a special Bollywood clip of the day.....
chaiya chaiya
He who walks in the shadow of love,
has paradise beneath his feet.

/I dig her hips.

Yowza.

Rarely, if ever, has underdeveloped mass transit looked so good.

(That song is used to good effect as them music in Spike Lee's Inside Man, in case you haven't seen it.)

I worried about the dancing extras falling off the train.

692 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:04:12pm
693 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:04:17pm

Moot point, not mute point.

(Interestingly, "moot point" has come to mean almost exactly the opposite of its original meaning.)

694 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:04:33pm

re: #676 Idle Drifter

I am eating Filipino tonite. Pork Adobo. Just thought you wanted to know. n

695 swamprat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:04:35pm

re: #682 Kevin Shook

Great post; Great sentiment; well stated.

696 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:04:53pm

re: #688 Fjordman

I'm just saying that you are making mistakes, too.

No- you called most of LGF ignorant about the enemy.

697 Killian Bundy  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:05:37pm

re: #689 pat

Some of you are going red on red,

We would actually refer to it as blue on blue.

/but point taken

698 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:06:41pm

re: #682 Kevin Shook

Well said. Thank you.

699 Thanos  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:06:59pm

Moving upthread, this is getting repetitive.

Fjordman, sorry friend, you failed to convince me.

700 Geepers  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:07:52pm

Kevin Shook (#682),

Well said.

701 datadude  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:07:56pm

re: #676 Idle Drifter
Heh-heh-heh (in true Homer fashion). Didn't mean to
cause you to stumble. But HEY! Any ideas that I can
contribute to the "collective consciousness" (IE: neighbor-
hood dudes with large grills), I feel that my work here
is done.

702 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:09:18pm

I love lumpia with banana catsup.

703 squarepeg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:11:46pm

After hanging in for many many posts, I have two things to say:

1 - I think it was shitty the way Charles blamed caliredst8r for the abortion thing when he wasn't the one who brought it up -- mama winger was. What, Charles, you don't want to go down the throat of the more popular poster?

2 - The video at the next thread up isn't available.

704 ornery elephant  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:12:03pm

Fjordman,

I've agreed with much of what you've said here tonight, not all of course, but most.

But I admire your dedication to the fight against the islamofascists.

We Americans are a complex bunch. We may seem inconsistent as we rant here day in and day out about the "spineless Europeans" and yet jump all over one who has the passion to fight the islamofascist menace, but I think when all is said and done, I think most share most of your thoughts here.

I appreciate the fight in your heart as I've always appreciated your writings on the subject at hand.

705 Dirk Diggler  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:14:48pm

I'd vote for Vlaams Belang's American wing if they'll pledge to kick out the Irish.

/Why yes, as a matter of fact I have been drinking

706 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:15:23pm

re: #705 Dirk Diggler

I'd vote for Vlaams Belang's American wing if they'll pledge to kick out the Irish.

/Why yes, as a matter of fact I have been drinking

Me too.

707 Fjordman  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:16:01pm

Sharmuta: Most Westerners in general are still pretty ignorant about Islam. Europeans are possibly even worse, but they have a steep learning curve now. LGF is certainly better than the mainstream, which is why I hang around here, but yes, there are still too many people stuck in the illusion of a moderate Islam.

And no, I will never have anything to do with white supremacy groups. Regarding "racists," is that the left-wing definition of the word, where keeping your culture and traditions is racist, too?

Thanos: Sorry, to hear that. Some other day, perhaps. I should be doing something else now.

708 solomonpanting  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:18:02pm

re: #643 song_and_dance_man

You have a thing or two to learn about Americans when it comes to why they exist.

Moreover, much of the world has a thing or two to learn about America and why it exists.

709 Charles  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:18:24pm

re: #703 squarepeg

After hanging in for many many posts, I have two things to say:

1 - I think it was shitty the way Charles blamed caliredst8r for the abortion thing when he wasn't the one who brought it up -- mama winger was. What, Charles, you don't want to go down the throat of the more popular poster?

2 - The video at the next thread up isn't available.

And that's the last crap you take on my carpet.

710 allahakchew  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:18:25pm

re: #302 cpuller

People need to be concerned if the Islamists and the Nazis get together. They did in WW2 and they can do it again.

Have they ever separated?
[Link: www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com...]

711 Q-Burn  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:19:02pm

Just look what can happen when well-meaning Germans let Mexicans get their hands on accordians in a border state:

Hey Baby Que Paso

712 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:19:11pm
but what you first of all need is a realistic understanding of the enemy. Americans lack that, even the majority of the posters here at LGF.

FYI- I suffer not from memory holes.

713 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:19:27pm

Darn. When did squarepeg go stupid?

714 WindHorse  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:20:57pm

re: #703 squarepeg

Re: Abortion....Dude.... give the guy a break. The emotional quotient (at that moment) was quite high.

As for the video accessibility.....is that Charles fault?

Please lighten up a little on a heavy thread.

715 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:22:35pm

re: #705 Dirk Diggler

I'd vote for Vlaams Belang's American wing if they'll pledge to kick out the Irish

But then who'd be left to keep your mom happy?

[drinking? wha?]

716 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:23:38pm

re: #713 experiencedtraveller

I first noticed it here.

717 unclassifiable  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:24:01pm

re: #705 Dirk Diggler

Your just trying to eliminate the drinking competition you English twit!

;)

718 Idle Drifter  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:24:19pm

re: #694 pat

re: #676 Idle Drifter

I am eating Filipino tonite. Pork Adobo. Just thought you wanted to know. n

I know a guy at work that eats alot of Filipino since he married one. He brought in a dish to a company barbacue that seemed like a strange mix of noodles, beans, eggs, and pork (I'm discribing what it looked like not what was actually in it, well except I could tell there was pork and some kind of bean). Strange as it was to look at it went well with the 5 lbs steak on my plate. Damn it! Now I'm hungery again!

719 sushi  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:25:05pm

re: #679 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

"But, we can always hope assimilation produces 'cultural Muslims'."

I don't think we have time for that. We've been waiting 1400 years and nothing has changed. The Koran remains 'immutable'- for all mankind, for all time...

Islam gotta go!

720 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:25:26pm
I know a guy at work that eats alot of Filipino since he married one.

Ah.... mm... well, what to say.

721 Idle Drifter  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:27:07pm

re: #701 datadude

re: #676 Idle Drifter
Heh-heh-heh (in true Homer fashion). Didn't mean to
cause you to stumble. But HEY! Any ideas that I can
contribute to the "collective consciousness" (IE: neighbor-
hood dudes with large grills), I feel that my work here
is done.

Prime rib....corn beef N' cabage....perogies....venison....

722 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:27:22pm

re: #718 Idle Drifter

Pinacbet. A vegetable stew. Okra gives it the body. I have that to, for dinner.

723 dogbreath  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:28:02pm

re: #659 Peter Verkooijen

re: #585 dogbreath


Reject racism, good. But say what and who you are rejecting, not just another “ism.” The word has become cheap. ... Racism says that “they” (not necessarily a race) are lesser beings. Which is different than saying, “our” way of doing things is better. For example, I think Western civilization is superior, but that doesn’t mean that Western people are superior. Our civilization is superior in part because it has evolved to the point that it accepts all humans as equal beings. This issue does not divide the Right; it defines the Right.
Huh?! That makes no sense.

You're redefining racism to claim the word for "the Right"? Why?!

Racism IS necessarily about race. It's in the word!

I don't need racism to defend western civilization. Racism goes against the ideals and values of western civilization.

islam is not a race, it's an ideology. I hate islam. Hating islam is not racism.

First, about the words. When I typed, “the Right” I was referring to liberal democratic ideals. Mixed-up lexicon, I know. Lower-case liberal, as in Thomas Jefferson, not like Sean Penn; Democratic, as in Plato, not Nancy Pelosi.
Racism--well, Islam is not a race; Judiasm is not a race, but the tribal hatred of “others” (which we usually call racism) is directed toward both. What else do you want to call it, Religionism?
Now, about my meaning. The Right affirms the rights of individuals. Racism denies the rights of individuals. It is the respect for individual rights that defines the Right. The issue--respecting rights or denying them--defines our position. Racism and the Right are incompatible.
Make sense now? If not, sorry. I get tired around this time most nights.

724 Idle Drifter  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:28:31pm

re: #720 Occasional Reader

I know a guy at work that eats alot of Filipino since he married one.

Ah.... mm... well, what to say.

Damn it, eject, eject, eject!

725 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:29:25pm

re: #718 Idle Drifter

Or Pancit. A noodle dish with anything goes!

726 Idle Drifter  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:30:34pm

re: #725 pat

re: #718 Idle Drifter

Or Pancit. A noodle dish with anything goes!

I think that's what he called it.

727 FLLegal  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:30:47pm

Excellent Vanishing American article [Link: vanishingamerican.blogspot.com...]

A comment:

Islam has nothing to do with race.

Illegals have nothing to do with race.

With that said, I hope we can stop the idiotic infighting and deport both groups from this country before either group destroys this country.

A CNN current News Story, an excerpt:

Radical Hispanic separatist organization MEChA ("Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan") is taking responsibility for setting the wildfires in California, confimed Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

California officials received a letter earlier today containing photographs of individuals holding Molotov cocktails, then throwing them into dry brush. The faces of the individuals appeared to have been digitally distorted.

Also included was a rambling manifesto, stating that the reason for the act of arson was that "Aztlán belongs to indigenous people, the Chicanas and Chicanos of Aztlán. We are sovereign and not subject to a foreign culture."

Link: [Link: www.cnnheadlienews.com...]

728 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:31:47pm

re: #713 experiencedtraveller

Darn. When did squarepeg go stupid?

Sometimes things are just deliberate. It is amazing how many chances Charles gave her and overlooked even some of the stupidness.


I hope she enjoyed the door hitting her arse on the way out.

729 therewaslight  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:32:24pm

European fascism is the unmentioned Rhinoceros in the room that is sitting on the couch next to the Elephant nobody is talking about.

730 txlady  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:32:33pm

My heart has been heavy. So, I want to pose this as a plea:

Why support Israel?
That question has been posed over and over. The question, in itself, says something about the person posing the question. What does it say about the person?
I will leave you to ponder it.
I support Israel.
I believe that she is a country that is an asset to the world and unless attacked would never attack another.
She has been under constant attack.
Her birth was a struggle.
Her people suffer under constant stress of attack from all sides.
The sea is her only ally, but is also the final demise.
She has borne out of her greatness. She has created beauty out of the wasted desert.
She is worthy of life.
Those that want to kill her, EMBRACE death.
Death. Death is too final. Death happens in a millisecond.
The question then becomes. If we embrace the cultures that esteem death, then we embrace nothing. Death occurs in a millisecond. Life takes years. Life has potential. Death is the cessation of potential. Death takes very little effort. It's momentary. Milliseconds. Nothing.
Is this the culture that we want? This "momentary gratification?"
Is Death Gratifying?
Death is Gratifying only when the life that is extinguished has gravity. The weight of death is measured by the life and not the cause or disease or anything that TOOK that life. THIS is also why it is a sin to commit suicide. Suicide is ultimately an act that takes the power of g-d away from g-d to decide if the life is worthy of living, and is a self- centered thing because the person committing suicide deems himself above g-ds judgment.
"Don't judge" is a frequently heard statement.
"you have no right to judge" is another.
But you do. You have a right to judge. However, the caveat is that when you judge, you judge in the most kind way. It is a duty that we have. We MUST judge.
If we do not, then we can't survive in a civilized society.
The key is in Equitable judgment. The focus should be on LIFE. This is not ones own life but LIFE in general. The way that the 10 commandments are organized is the formula for perspective. This will ensure LIFE. This is also why the JEWS have survived since the beginning of time. Think about how remarkable a feet that is. The Jewish people didn't have a Land or anything for cohesion. Yet - LIFE is a self propelling notion and what gave the Jewish nation, and my people, to continue LIFE.
LIFE.
I choose LIFE!
I present LIFE for your humble consideration.

731 1redthread  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:33:02pm

re: #727 FLLegal

That story is a hoax.

732 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:34:29pm

re: #707 FjordmanThe argument apparently boils down to can Muslims live in peace among Westerners. You write novelettes that eventually reach the conclusion no and then recommend a course that seems to asymptotically approach either forced conversions or mass deportations. And thats where we lose you.

733 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:35:03pm

Saw a Filipino girl in Costco today with a body that could have stopped freeway traffic in LA just by stepping on a ramp.

734 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:35:35pm

re: #727 FLLegal

A CNN current News Story, an excerpt:

Rrrrright, from "cnnheadlienews" [sic]. Stop peddling that crap here.

735 FLLegal  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:35:37pm

re: #731 1redthread

re: #727 FLLegal

That story is a hoax.

Which story? The CNN one?

736 Q-Burn  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:36:30pm

re: #727 FLLegal

cnnheadlienews? Right. Why are you trying to spread disinformation?

737 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:36:37pm

re: #731 1redthread

Ditto. Hoax.

738 1redthread  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:36:54pm

re: #735 FLLegal

re: #731 1redthread

re: #727 FLLegal

That story is a hoax.

Which story? The CNN one?

Yes. It's from "cnnheadlienews".

A lot of people have been tricked.

739 FLLegal  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:37:02pm

re: #734 Occasional Reader

re: #727 FLLegal


A CNN current News Story, an excerpt:

Rrrrright, from "cnnheadlienews" [sic]. Stop peddling that crap here.

Well excuse me for making a mistake dude. I was sent the link and thought it was real. You ever make a mistake?

740 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:38:19pm

re: #739 FLLegal

A simple "sorry, my mistake" would be in order.

741 FLLegal  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:39:51pm

Hey people I'm NOT TRYING to spread disinformation and or peddle anything. Gee you make a mistake and you come under attack. Thanks to those who responded nicely and to hell to the accusers.

742 Dirk Diggler  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:40:40pm
You ever make a mistake?

Well yes, he recently got married.

/sarc

743 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:41:39pm

#576 Fjordman

Pulling out the map of Iran and the countries around it is very revealing when you look at where our bases are.

Iraq had little to do with installing democracy......

--------------

I seriously wish you'd look at this instead of repeating the msm talking points about why we are in iraq. The map really brings to light when you look where the USA put their bases to deal with the Iran and perhaps syria later. I bring this up a few times to people who want to deflect that we are just there to instill democracy and most usually run.

History will judge if Bush did the right thing.....

The map to see

744 Ashamed to be Dutch  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:42:23pm

re: #739 FLLegal

re: #734 Occasional Reader

re: #727 FLLegal


A CNN current News Story, an excerpt:


Rrrrright, from "cnnheadlienews" [sic]. Stop peddling that crap here.

Well excuse me for making a mistake dude. I was sent the link and thought it was real. You ever make a mistake?

Thanks for pointing out the cnnheadlienews...

re: #734 Occasional Reader

No harm here. I visited the link and I too thought it was real... Silly us...

745 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:43:47pm

re: #741 FLLegal

Hey people I'm NOT TRYING to spread disinformation and or peddle anything. Gee you make a mistake and you come under attack. Thanks to those who responded nicely and to hell to the accusers.

tough crowd, get used to it.

746 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:43:50pm

re: #741 FLLegal

Hey people I'm NOT TRYING to spread disinformation and or peddle anything. Gee you make a mistake and you come under attack. Thanks to those who responded nicely and to hell to the accusers.

FLLegal,

LGF is a tough room. Always fact check your arse first before posting.

I've been stung before but I sucked it up, admit when I'm wrong, try to be more careful, and it's amazing people are really actually forgiving.

Keep the chin up.

I'm sure I'll get stung in the future and to be flat honest, I'm glad. That is when I have learned the most.

747 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:44:06pm

re: #742 Dirk Diggler

You ever make a mistake?
Well yes, he recently got married.

/sarc

Oh, like your Commonwealth of Massachusetts "ceremony" doesn't count as a mistake?

748 stevieray  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:44:48pm

re: #727 FLLegal


Radical Hispanic separatist organization MEChA ("Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan") is taking responsibility for setting the wildfires in California, confimed Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Damn it! I've been telling people something like this was going to happen! If that claim turns out to be true, the backlash could get big very fast, and the authorities will be hard pressed to control it.

749 FLLegal  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:44:50pm

I'm sorry....now I have to write my friends who I sent that story to by email and tell them to ignore it for it is a hoax.

And to those of you who were nice in letting me know it was a hoax and did so nicely...again thank you.

750 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:45:15pm

FLLegal: If you were genuinely fooled, then sorry for snapping at you. I've just seen too many trolls deliberately drop hateful disinformation here.

751 M. Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:45:58pm

Can't we all just get along?

The place was much cozier when there were only 20 or 30 comments per thread.

752 Q-Burn  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:46:15pm

re: #741 FLLegal

I guess the real question is who would put that page together and spread it around and for what purpose. Sorry, I can see how you were taken in, it was a pretty good hoax. I might have fallen for it except my elderly mom is breathing the smoke from that Santiago fire so I have been following that story closely.

753 stevieray  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:46:23pm

re: #729 therewaslight

Nice. Simple, elegant, and true.

754 Ashamed to be Dutch  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:47:04pm

re: #747 Occasional Reader

re: #742 Dirk Diggler

You ever make a mistake?

Well yes, he recently got married. /sarc

LOL !

755 hypothetical truth  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:47:50pm

re: #209 zombie

re: #196 Jetpilot1101

re: #184 zombie

I'd like to read it. As an engineer, I am a fan of base 10 math but you may convince me.

Oh, well, you're an engineer. That explains that. You're excused. For us normal people, the metric system is a form of well, (lacking a better term) state-imposed anti-humanity totalitarianism.

As my machinist boss would put it, and I would agree with him.

When it comes to actually building, machining, measuring, and assembly, there is no advantage over the metric system; in fact as a machinist it is harder to make things based on the metric system, without even looking at where the metric system came from.
The largest problem comes when you have engineers conversing with eachother in two different scales. When you happen to lose, oh only about $120 million worth of mars orbiter.

Clearly this was because the metric system stinks.

756 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:51:15pm

re: #755 hypothetical truth

re: #209 zombie


re: #196 Jetpilot1101

re: #184 zombie

I'd like to read it. As an engineer, I am a fan of base 10 math but you may convince me.


Oh, well, you're an engineer. That explains that. You're excused. For us normal people, the metric system is a form of well, (lacking a better term) state-imposed anti-humanity totalitarianism.

As my machinist boss would put it, and I would agree with him.

When it comes to actually building, machining, measuring, and assembly, there is no advantage over the metric system; in fact as a machinist it is harder to make things based on the metric system, without even looking at where the metric system came from.
The largest problem comes when you have engineers conversing with eachother in two different scales. When you happen to lose, oh only about $120 million worth of mars orbiter.

Clearly this was because the metric system stinks.


I too am an engineer, and I don't understand the problem with the metric system. Conversion is simple, and mistakes should be easy to catch. I've never had a problem with either the English or Metric system. A non-issue as far as I am concerned.

757 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:52:52pm

The Metric System is a communist plot to contaminate our precious bodily fluids.

758 therewaslight  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:54:02pm

re: #743 Highrise

#576 Fjordman

Pulling out the map of Iran and the countries around it is very revealing when you look at where our bases are.

Iraq had little to do with installing democracy......

Actually, it did. There were many who sincerely thought democracy would work in Iraq and pushed for the war on that basis.

However not everyone in the US government thinks identical thoughts and have identical motivations. For others an Iraq war could present opportunities other than democracy.

So elbow Paul Wolfowitz and Co. aside and you get a regime with a more cynical/pragmatic view. That's not to say something approaching democracy - the act of voting in politicians - has not been implemented. There is partial success.

But it hasn't made Iraq any less Islamic or the politics much less nepotistic or tribal. The true test of this "Islamic democracy" will be what happens after the US has pulled out.

759 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:54:09pm

re: #757 Occasional Reader

The Metric System is a communist plot to contaminate our precious bodily fluids.

Too late, my bodily fluids are already contaminated.....

760 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:54:18pm

GAHHHH! I just stepped out on the patio in bare feet, and stepped on a slug.

(been raining for the last several days here in DC)

761 FLLegal  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:54:24pm

Dear Occasional Reader:

It was a mistake and thanks. Not everyone is a troll although I do understand the paranoia. Does being a troll include getting kicked of Democratic Underground and DailyKos? If so, I plead guilty!

762 stevieray  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:54:26pm

re: #748 stevieray

Wow. That fake site is very convincing... I didn't catch the URL clue at all! Whew! I thought we'd have mobs in the streets by Sunday.

763 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:55:48pm

re: #761 FLLegal

Dear Occasional Reader:

It was a mistake and thanks. Not everyone is a troll although I do understand the paranoia. Does being a troll include getting kicked of Democratic Underground and DailyKos? If so, I plead guilty!

better grow some scales if yer gonna hang around here:)

764 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:57:06pm

re: #763 maddogg

better grow some scales

Crikey... are your bodily fluids THAT contaminated?! Better see a doctor.

765 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 9:57:14pm

re: #760 Occasional Reader

GAHHHH! I just stepped out on the patio in bare feet, and stepped on a slug.

(been raining for the last several days here in DC)

Was it a sensual experience for you?

766 M. Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:02:12pm

How about a nice song to calm every one down.

The author of I Wanna Go Home, Karridine, has authorized me to give away 1,000 free copies of the song to our men and women in the military for personal use only. However, recipients of a free copy can let anybody listen to it if they want. Members of the military can put it on their i-pod, use it on their computer, or make one CD.

You can find out how to get a free copy at 1,000 Free Copies.

If you want a copy for review e-mail me. My e-mail address is on the sidebar.

767 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:03:37pm

re: #747 Occasional Reader

LOL

768 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:04:26pm

re: #687 therewaslight

1) I think you are very naive about the larger aspirations of Islamists, especially when they smell blood.

2) Your implication that Muslims would settle for "you go your way; we'll go ours" in a divided Europe ("a split rather than a fight") completely neglects the fact that they are consumed with ENVY.

769 Roger  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:04:43pm

re: #758 therewaslight

But it hasn't made Iraq any less Islamic or the politics much less nepotistic or tribal. The true test of this "Islamic democracy" will be what happens after the US has pulled out.

Exactly. And pulling back is inevitable if the USA isn't intending for Iraq to become the 51st state. Freedom is a vacuum; there are other ingredients required for a successful republic our founding fathers realized. They knew they were starting with these ingredients and warned of what will happened if they're lost.

770 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:09:54pm

re: #723 dogbreath

... Racism--well, Islam is not a race; Judiasm is not a race, but the tribal hatred of “others” (which we usually call racism) is directed toward both. What else do you want to call it, Religionism? ... Make sense now?

No, still makes no sense. Why are you trying to redefine racism?

Race or ethnicity is something you are born with. Whether you should attach any weight or meaning to "race" in the first place is another can of worms.

You can be born as a Jew or Arab or Caucasian or whatever. Judging or hating people on that ethnic basis is racist and wrong.

What religion you practice however is a matter of choice. There is no excuse for being a muslim, for following a war cult founded by a 7th century murderer and rapist.

Jews have problems with muslims not because of some irrational "tribal hatred", but because islam teaches muslims to hate and kill Jews.

771 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:10:20pm

re: #758 therewaslight

The true test of this "Islamic democracy" will be what happens after the US has pulled out.

Yep. I think we'll always have a presence there for a bit and change over time. I just can't stand it when people say we only went there for democracy.....which is what fjordman seems to do when I read his posts and then it drives me further nuts when he says we don't understand our enemy because we go to iraq JUST for democracy. I have to fire back.

The map is very revealing on strategy of our real threat we face with Iran and some refuse to see the multifaceted reasons why it was important to go in when we did.

History will judge us, not fjordman.

772 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:11:15pm

re: #770 Peter Verkooijen


Too true.

773 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:12:49pm

Despite its Marxist sounding name, the System Internationale makes engineering work far easier, because few, if any, unit conversions are required.

774 sushi  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:17:17pm

re: #553 Fjordman

Absolutely agree, Fjordman. The idea that there is a Nazi lurking behind every bush in Europe is preposterous. These people are clueless. Europe is not going there no more...

775 M. Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:20:19pm

re: #773 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

Despite its Marxist sounding name, the System Internationale makes engineering work far easier, because few, if any, unit conversions are required.

SI is French.

In America it is referred to as the Metric System.

776 Highrise  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:20:45pm

re: #774 sushi

re: #553 Fjordman

Absolutely agree, Fjordman. The idea that there is a Nazi lurking behind every bush in Europe is preposterous. These people are clueless. Europe is not going there no more...


I don't believe anyone said that.

That is purely a mischaracterization of These People.

777 hypothetical truth  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:25:25pm

lol, yeah, conversions between the two scales of measurement is not hard, I suppose I could be complaining just because making threads, esp. machining custom threads are inherently more difficult then standard threads from a machinist point of view.

778 M. Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:25:39pm

Amps and volts and ohms are metric quantities.

779 hypothetical truth  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:26:47pm

Nice, post #777 :-D

780 M. Simon  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:28:11pm

re: #769 Roger

re: #758 therewaslight

But it hasn't made Iraq any less Islamic or the politics much less nepotistic or tribal. The true test of this "Islamic democracy" will be what happens after the US has pulled out.

Exactly. And pulling back is inevitable if the USA isn't intending for Iraq to become the 51st state. Freedom is a vacuum; there are other ingredients required for a successful republic our founding fathers realized. They knew they were starting with these ingredients and warned of what will happened if they're lost.

As long as they drink alcohol and listen to music they are on the right path.

781 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:29:30pm

re: #777 hypothetical truth

lol, yeah, conversions between the two scales of measurement is not hard, I suppose I could be complaining just because making threads, esp. machining custom threads are inherently more difficult then standard threads from a machinist point of view.


Yes, designing custom threads can be tedious, but is sometimes necessary. The biggest pain is defining the thread for the manufacture of a thread Gage.

782 pat  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:32:43pm

re: #780 M. Simon

Ditto

And blood letting among those on the same side always involves strategy. Rarely objectives. So.....?

783 hypothetical truth  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:34:27pm

re: #781 maddogg


Yes, designing custom threads can be tedious, but is sometimes necessary. The biggest pain is defining the thread for the manufacture of a thread Gage.

Hmm, well I guess I will find out about all that good stuff as I am at the lower levels of schooling with my goal as a mechanical engineer.

784 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:37:55pm

re: #783 hypothetical truth

re: #781 maddogg

Yes, designing custom threads can be tedious, but is sometimes necessary. The biggest pain is defining the thread for the manufacture of a thread Gage.

Hmm, well I guess I will find out about all that good stuff as I am at the lower levels of schooling with my goal as a mechanical engineer.

I am a mechanical engineer, with 25 years experience, and no, they won't teach you that in school. you'll have to learn it on the job. Get a copy of the Machinists Handbook, it'll saveyerass.

785 hypothetical truth  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:40:58pm

Nice, good thing I already have that, along with my own calipers and micrometers :)

786 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:44:07pm

re: #785 hypothetical truth

Excellent. If you can run basic machine tools you'll be miles ahead of your contemporaries. It is invaluable while designing fixtures and tooling for production CNC equipment. It will gain you the respect of the machinists as well, and they too will be willing to teach you things, invaluable things.

787 hypothetical truth  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:52:50pm

re: #786 maddogg

re: #785 hypothetical truth

Excellent. If you can run basic machine tools you'll be miles ahead of your contemporaries. It is invaluable while designing fixtures and tooling for production CNC equipment. It will gain you the respect of the machinists as well, and they too will be willing to teach you things, invaluable things.

Yeah, that's what everybody tells me... I've made many different things in that small machine shop, most of which I did on manual lathes and mills. I also have done some small amount of CNC stuff. (lol, this sounds almost like a resume)
But seriously that is what is driving me for this mechanical engineering degree. I can only hope to get into something that will require designing and machining prototypes for the same project that I can be a part of.

788 DanishMade  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 10:54:29pm

re: #598 Mich-again

lol no u didn't, u got owned, and it still seems like ur suffering from that :-)

789 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 11:02:26pm

re: #787 hypothetical truth

Yes, when your company pays thousands of dollars to patent your designs it is satisfying, for a minute, then on to the next challenge.

790 maddogg  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 11:03:20pm

Goodnight.

791 hypothetical truth  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 11:11:57pm

re: #790 maddogg

'night, don't let the bad [insert some clever word for political person here starting with b here] bite.

792 Arbalest  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 11:13:36pm

It seems that the weather on this thread is similar to that of the related one last night; stormy, with many lightning strikes.


I’ve read parts of the Quran, and all of Robert Spencer’s “Blogging the Quran”; the book says what it says, and simply cannot be changed. How the Muslims have treated, and still treat, non-Muslims in North Africa, the Middle East, Indonesia, and elsewhere, is clear. The various YouTube and MEMRI videos, showing what very many Muslim clerics preach (and the UK ones say it in English), removes any doubt. I conclude, therefore, that to be a practicing Muslim is to be a threat to all non-Muslims.


I recall, when I was in north Belgium several years ago, mentioning to a local contact one evening that I saw a poster in a shop window that looked like a WW2 souvenir (from during the Nazi occupation).

This was a hot button for him, as the item was a current political campaign poster (the portrait needed no swastika). He proceeded to tell me the situation; much immigration, primarily Muslim, with no incentive to work, placing a titanic drain on the economy, violence, increasing numbers with no end in sight, etc.

I thought his reaction a bit intense and extreme, but in retrospect, he reacted like a man who, from his home, could see the campfires of an invading army.


The various news reports (not just the ones linked; the last 10 years or so) concerning the results of Islamic immigration into Europe read like one of the more apocalyptic graphic novels.

The moderate political parties have been eliminated; the Socialists / Marxists / Stalinists are delivering up the natives to some new outside force. The people then turn to . . . . . .

Is this really happening? Who caused this? What are their names?


I’m familiar enough with the history of India and the Balkans to know that Islam is the enemy.

We hold these truths to be self-evident . . .” is true here in the US ultimately due to the armed might of the US military. It is not true in just about every Muslim country.

I can never be Islamic enough to be accepted (although perhaps not treated as badly as the Muslim African Darfurians), and I won’t submit.


I’m also familiar enough with German History (1920-1945) to know enough about the various egomaniacs, criminals, failures, mental defectives, and various other degenerates that formulated Nazism. I have more than a high school education, so I’m not buying.


To Fjordman, Peter V, and any other European posters:

- Many of your posts suggest to me that you personally see the campfires. I am too far away to guage the correct intensity of the situation.

- I note that military uniforms have been an acceptable part of every-day European society since the mid 19th Century (although I’m not particularly clear on the attitudes, customs, etc., AND I thought that WW2 might have changed things considerably). The uniforms send a bad signal to me.

- The Nazi and skinhead links, ideology, etc., to the various political parties have to go (if they expect help from me). In addition to my previous statement, some of my ancestors and extended family fought against them. Losing the uniforms would help a lot. Maybe it’s just a cultural hang-up on my part, but they send a very bad message to me.

- I can’t tell if the Swedish Democrat literature is genuine or not; it seems too simple, too “I’ll say what you want to hear”. I need much more convincing.

I don't expect you to fix any of these things, but passing this information along might be useful.

793 canadianally  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 11:16:20pm

A voracious consumer of all thing LGF, I mistakenly read from afar too often and fail to interject as often as I should. Alas, as I listen to Pink Floyd's High Hopes and once again read LGF, please allow me this one observation. This thread in particular, and the many that precede it, are the single most important conversations that I can find anywhere on the internet. Where else can a group of very diverse people (and some non-Americans!) meet to discuss the emerging threats to no less than Western Civilization? Honestly, there is no other site that deals with topics such as this, and I typically read up to six hours a day.

I too am filled with angst (?) at the events transpiring in Europe and the warped political structures over there that stifle debate and allow unsavory (leftist) elements and quasi-religious/political militant idealogies to grow unchecked. The voice of the common man has been subsumed by a faceless Eurocrat arbitrarily flailing out rulings on what constitutes legitimate speech. Such nonsense only stengthens the latent perversity that lies within European culture and drives men back into the dark recesses of European history. Another poster alluded to the fact that Europe may very well be in for troubling times. Civil strife, and an increasingly strong-armed, unaccountable government out of Brussels, even. With him, I concur. It is incomprehensible that there is no "moderate" vision within Europe that can devise ways to preserve European culture in such a way that all races may enjoy the fruits. A pity that so such an "enlightened" continent is once again so lacking in common sense.

794 therewaslight  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 11:19:39pm

re: #768 Dead Sea Squirrel

re: #687 therewaslight

1) I think you are very naive about the larger aspirations of Islamists, especially when they smell blood.

2) Your implication that Muslims would settle for "you go your way; we'll go ours" in a divided Europe ("a split rather than a fight") completely neglects the fact that they are consumed with ENVY.

1) Having aspirations is one thing, being able to achieve those aspirations within a European Empire is another. I predict it will be more difficult for Islamists to gain power over Europe than you imply.

The bureaucrats didn't spend all those years scheming and fantasising about a United Europe to hand power over to anyone else, let alone the Muslims who oppose the ideals of the EU, when they got it.

So you wrongly suggest the white, European elites will do what is in the interests of the Islamists rather than what is in their own interests. And since the EU is based around European bureaucratic culture it's baised toward the involvement of Euros and thus more likely to fall to Euro fascism than Islamism.

2) They will have to continue to be envious because I don't see them out-organising the existing Euros, getting an army or much of a police. They'll have no choice but to split; the Euros are too powerful. With their own representation in the European Council they would then begin to fight among themselves as well as with us, like happens now. (I oppose such a position - this is a forecast).

That's not saying Islamism is no danger. It will be an influence on European foreign policy and oppressive ideology that will make life difficult for non-Euro elites. It's saying I think a European Empire without Islamism would not be Israel's best friend, anyway, because Euro anti-semitism exists on what the French would call the right and left, and is directed at Israel.

795 427SOHC  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 11:51:45pm

I hate this cookie stuff, but here comes a rare comment.......

....and it's not racial!

Islam is the problem, and the sooner the West realizes this FACT, the sooner we can get to the solution. This solution is not, nor will it ever be a pretty, PC approved method.

However....

The idea of muslims and Nazis battling each other is just too sweet to let go, at least for me. I wish we could figure some way to sell arms and "intelligence" to both sides and take the profits to eliminate the right wing socialists who currently inhabit the leadership positions in the GOP. Profiting from the destruction of all who believe the Gummint is (or should be) God's right hand in the world should be the ultimate goal of all capitalists and free folk around the world.

No, I really did not read any G-D_mmed comments before I posted this. I have lived over half my natural life without hearing your PC influenced crap, and I'm not starting the habit now!

796 Shalmanessar  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 11:53:14pm

re: #510 Geepers

Exactly. Some people are entirely too certain that these groups are the very re-incarnation of the Nazi Party. Charles Johnson himself may need to distance himself from these groups for his reputation alone: the blog of Caesar must be above suspicion. But we Lizardoids should not tar those who have a different opinion of these groups like Fjordmann.

In fact, even if the worst case is true, it may only be an influx of good people into a renovation effort within these parties that is needed. Support for the good faction within these parties is more helpful than sweepingly expressing hatred of all these "Nazis." Political parties do undergo broad and lasting changes at times: not too long ago, our Democratic party was the political bastion of the repressive South, and now they'd probably vote for a trillion-dollar reparation package if given the chance and ruin our economy!

(Besides I see only one Nazi girl. Don't you even question how the entire left-wing of Belgium wants to delegitimize VB, and has control of all media there with all the resources of that position trained upon delegitimizing VB, and we have... one frigging photo of dress-up in the distant past going on? Her uniform looks a hell of a lot like Prince Harry's there! Do we declare blog warfare on the Queen of England's website now?)

We don't have to join them, or even praise them, or even acknowledge their existence, but let's not rabidly declare that they are nazis and everyone who thinks otherwise is a crypto-nazi.

797 snowillard  Fri, Oct 26, 2007 11:58:31pm

re: #152 zombie

The main problem with modern politics is that there are people still fighting last century's wars over last century's ideologies. Here on the West Coast, all I ever see are Stalinist and Maoists and Marxists and their ilk, gumming up the works and ruining it for everybody. But I forget that elsewhere in the world, there are people still occupying the other irrelevant extreme.

It's not that these people are polar opposites, but rather that they both live in a no-longer-extant world. In that sense, both the extreme left and the extreme right are anti-progressive. They're regressive, and they want to drag us all back with them.

Its just that the right people haven't been in charge yet. Here on the left coast we have the enlightened Hollywood crowd. They go visit Castro and Chavez and wear Che t-shirts. They think its cool to call Americans and our president Fascists. If only we would let Rob Riener and Sean Penn re-wright the constitution (and put those of us they don't agree with through some re-education or elimination program) we could have a workers paradise and make nice with the practitioners of the religion of peace.

798 Nadnerb  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 12:27:13am

re: #616 Killgore Trout

Chaiya chayia-Wowza!

799 Highrise  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 12:37:35am

Hey, resident ding downer, crawdad.

How long will it take you to reach to me?

/snickers

800 Syrah  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 12:39:17am

re: #797 snowillard

September 10th, 2001 was the last day of the old paradigm.

When the Wall fell in Berlin, the old ways of thinking had begun to crumble with it into meaninglessness.

Then, on a clear blue-sky morning, on September 11th, the next age began.

801 m  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 12:49:32am

re: #461 Mich-again

432 Fjordman

The presence of a 74 year old unarmed woman doesn't prove or disprove anything. Thats weak.

Hi Mich! It doesn't say a 74 yr old unarmed woman was "present" - she was attacked.

The elderly woman was lying on the floor completely still. She had been in the security car and got out immediately when the driver shouted OUT OUT. She didn’t know what to do and started running. She was hunted down by two persons and banged down with an ironbar. She lay completely still in the hope she wouldn’t get anymore. She felt they stood a moment watching her if she would move. Then they presumably ran to the other SIAD member on the floor and joined the attack on him.
802 sushi  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 12:53:39am

Germany:
This is how the wind blows, folks: If you oppose Islamofascism, you are automatically a 'Nazi' and a 'far right extremist'- that is the method in the madness:

Former holocaust survivor professor Ralph Giordano smeared as 'far right wing extremist' and 'Nazi' for opposing mega mosque.

This 'holier than thou'- thing doesn't work, our enemies are laughing their asses off:


[Link: sheikyermami.com...]


[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

Cologne: Giordano Receives Death Threats and Fatwa’s for Opposing Mosque

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

803 LEGION  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 12:55:53am

Wow - what a thread- read almost 800 posts- its now almost 4 am on the east coast- Intense dreaming ahead for me- Goodnight Mrs. Mergatroid- whereever you are (apologies to Jimmy Durante).

804 Highrise  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 1:03:38am

Good grierf a few people here took stupid pills.

805 Shemesh  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 1:14:18am

I don't like coming to such an important thread so late. But my observations - for what they're worth

i) I know and have written a lot about European history

ii) I believe there are lessons to be learned from history

iii) I could see this coming; in times of acute tension political alliances that would have been unthinkable in a previous generation become reality

iv) The neo-Nazis will get stronger in Europe as more people become disenchanted with multiculturalism; indeed, playing on this theme is now their main recruiting strategy (see the BNP in England)

v) The neo-Nazis are opportunist wolves who will devour their new allies if they are given the chance

vi) Ditto, the Islamists who have allied with the far left; see what's happening to Respect in Tower Hamlets, London

vii) LGF is a big player in the blogosphere; Charles is correct when he says that serious politicians are watching

ix) Charles should kick the neo-Nazis and the racists out of his blog

806 markie  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 1:22:09am

re: #8 mbruce

Like I have said before, the Left/Right diametric is not a straight line, it is more of a horseshoe shape, and the extremes almost meet in the middle.

Rather like a toilet seat....

807 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 1:45:41am

re: #805 Shemesh

ix) Charles should kick the neo-Nazis and the racists out of his blog

He does kick them out- did you mean he should continue to do so when they appear?

808 sushi  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 1:59:33am

re: #805 Shemesh

Shemesh, I don't believe you. I don't.

809 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 2:00:48am

re: #808 sushi

re: #808 sushi

Huh?

810 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 2:16:53am

re: #703 squarepeg

Charles blamed caliredst8r for the abortion thing when he wasn't the one who brought it up -- mama winger was.

This is actually not true. I looked, and Charles was right.

/just one last fact check on your *ss

811 sushi  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 2:18:00am

re: #809 Sharmuta

well go ahead and name the neo-nazi's and the racists on this blog!

812 ryannon  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 2:20:57am

#727 FLLegal 10/26/07 9:30:47 pm reply quote report

A CNN current News Story, an excerpt:


Radical Hispanic separatist organization MEChA ("Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan") is taking responsibility for setting the wildfires in California, confimed Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

California officials received a letter earlier today containing photographs of individuals holding Molotov cocktails, then throwing them into dry brush. The faces of the individuals appeared to have been digitally distorted.

Also included was a rambling manifesto, stating that the reason for the act of arson was that "Aztl%uFFFDbelongs to indigenous people, the Chicanas and Chicanos of Aztl%uFFFD We are sovereign and not subject to a foreign culture."

Link: [Link: www.cnnheadlienews.com...]


========================

Excerpted from the CNN story:

"A $70,000 reward is being offered for any information leading to the arrest of those responsible for setting the fire. No suspects have been identified, though they are probably brown."

Uhh...

WTF?

813 Classic Conservative  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 2:21:24am

The problem with Europe is that throughout its history everything has bounced violently between one extreme and another. Europeans have become apathetic from all of this, so they allow things to get so intolerably bad that the only corrective action can be drastic; and so the cycle perpetuates itself. America was blessed from its founding to break with this ultimately nihilistic tradition and construct a morally-principled republic that naturally buffers against these extremes. I've been living in Amsterdam (a few blocks from Slotavaart) for 7 months now and I can just see the fatigue of politics written all over the faces of the average European. They expect nothing less than to be betrayed by their representatives and consequent social upheaval. I feel bad for them but my pity only goes so far, until the average European ceases to be apathetic this will continue. They live in the 'now' with no eye towards the future.

814 the friendly grizzly  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 2:43:56am

From JohnSteele in #51

The thing that concerns me is that if neo-Nazis become associated with the fight against Islamism, good people will turn against the fight against Islamofacism out of PC fear of guilt-by-association. And then the Islamists win.

As a Jew, the way I see it is this: SOME of the good people may feel this way, some fewer may enter the fight on the side of good.

But I also firmly believe that the vast majority of the people will continue to feed the crocodile by "raus! RAUS!"-ing us onto the trains without a second thought. ANYthing to preserve peace, quiet, and Monday night football.

I say this because even thought this is the 21st century, one still hears a lot of "Christ-killer" talk, Jews cause wars talk, Jews control Hollywood. (Of course we do: we BUILT it!) Time to get revenge, and what better excuse?

For the record, I am not some sniveling, hand-wringing pants-pisser with a Michael Weiner (Savage) accent. In fact, if it got bad here, I could, based on appearance and name, "pass". But I can't help what is in my dossier.

815 Classic Conservative  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 2:45:50am

Fjordam -

"If you still try to export democracy to the Islamic world, win their hearts and minds and continue Muslim immigration as if 9/11 never happened, you will continue to be on the defensive."

Perhaps it is time to clear this up, what is your definition of the offensive? What strategy would you pursue?

It is not just a matter of "exporting democracy" it is a matter of exporting (over generations) societal change. This is the loooonnnng war to which there is no good alternative. We cannot stand-by and do nothing and we cannot commit genocide, what would you have us do?

The enemy is poltical Islam. Mohammed conflated politics and religion as no one had ever done before when he founded Islam. For 1400 years this has yielded nothing but war. We MUST plant the seed of good government in Muslim societies that will eventually lead to the de-coupling of political/imperialist (Sharia law, kill the infidel) from religious (pray to Allah, show hospitality to all guests) Islam. This will take a long time, but eventually positive societal change will force the clerics to re-interpret the Koran and Hadiths to be compatible with the good government most Muslims may come to enjoy. Then we will finally know peace with that part of the world.

A long, hard fight to be sure - but absolutely necessary and with no palatable alternative.

816 mainah  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 2:46:52am

@ Charles

I have not read the comments, just the article:

"Between the different possibilities, it is much more likely that a right-wing extremist group would get to power in Europe than it is that an Islamist group would do the same. The swastika is much more frightening than the crescent because it is much more realistic."

Let me tell you, my friend, that in linking (and thereby supporting) this crap you are supporting the EU leftist establishment 100 percent.

Thanks for the stab in the back!

Let me also tell you that you should visit Europe for a month or so and see for yourself instead of relying on your personal fears and dubious sources and doing the dirty work of Europe's pols, academia and media to hammer the public with "nazi" alerts to throw sand in their eyes so they won't see Islam taking over the continent. And that is very REAL and visible.

GO SEE FOR YOURSELF!

817 1389  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 2:59:34am

re: #18 Racer X

My dad used to tell me to be very particular of who you associate with. If you are standing with a group of kids and one throws a rock at a cop car - you will all go to jail.

Guilt by association is a flag waved more often lately on both sides of politics.

Every time there is one truther banner at a rally guess what happens? They all get tainted.

Same for ONE Nazi.

Exactly the problem.

818 BruxellesBlog  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 3:23:32am

I’ve been sitting on the sidelines during most of this flame war. And I’d like to kick in my two cents.

Paul Belien at Brussels Journal is a stand up guy. An eccentric, and intellectual, his Brussels Journal is quickly becoming the must read blog in Europe. I’ve met Paul, I like Paul, and his book, “A Thorn in Brussels” is superb.

My own personal view is that the Flemish are being screwed by the Belgian socialists who are selling them out to Islamic immigration to keep in power. Trust me, I have a good job and make a good living, but I pay OVER 60% in taxes in this workers paradise.

Are there a lot of good hard working people of all types who vote for the VB to try to fix things? Yes. Is everybody in the VB a jack-booted thug storm trooper? No.

But...

There is a recent video on you tube, an interview with Filip Dewinter one of the leaders of the Vlaams Belang discussing Turkey and the EU, where there is undoubtedly a white power statue on his bookshelf.

Make no mistake, if you are doing an interview that you know is going out over the airways and you leave a statue like that on your bookshelf, you are sending a sign to your hardcore base that you are not selling out. It is like a secret handshake.

Did Robert Byrd EVER leave his white hood lying around his office for show?

Paul Belien’s wife is a member of the Vlaams Belang. This in no way changes my personal opinion of Paul, or his blog, but I do view the VB with increasingly great skepticism.

Remember the flame war regarding the 9-11 Brussels rally and accusations of the VB manipulating the rally? Anyone want to reconsider their opinion after Charles’ opening up this can of worms?

David Mamet said it best about the success of pulling ‘the con’ in the film House of Games. “It’s called a confidence game. Why? Because you give me your confidence? No. Because I give you mine.” In short, the guy pulling the con puts his trust in you.

I am personally as open and supportive of the cause of the hard-working Flemish people who want to sort out this Soviet State called Belgium. I do believe that yes, there are EU and VB politicians who are sincere at partnering with the Jewish community to form a voting coalition to stop the Socialist use of Islamic integration to rig elections and are genuine in their concern about unchecked Islamic extremism and radicalism.

Be that as it may, is this the case with Filip Dewinter and the core group of the VB?

I am VERY sympathetic to the moves that the VB has made to the Jewish community as are Atlas and many others.

But folks, that White Power statue in the video...that is there for a reason.

819 Yank in the EU  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 3:56:17am

re: #818 BruxellesBlog

Greetings, my friend. That's an important piece of evidence that you present. I believe we have nearly identical positions on this issue. Take care.

820 BruxellesBlog  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 4:27:14am

re: #819 Yank in the EU

Thanks Yank. Good to hear form you too.

Before Paul gets pissed and flames me on his site, I'd better correct my typo..."A Throne in Brussels"

Spellcheck is my friend...but I used spellcheck and I guess I didn't catch it. Although, Paul, may like my version of the title as he is quite the thorn in the side of Brussels.

If you read this Paul, I do own the book so don't flame me.

You can however flame away if you desire for saying that Odin's Cross is a white power symbol, because it is and is used by the Aryan Nations and National Front.

But sorry, it is. That's just a fact.

D

821 BruxellesBlog  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 4:29:28am

Here is the ADL's take on the symbol.

[Link: www.adl.org...]

822 Yank in the EU  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 4:36:00am

Off for a late lunch. Anytime you're in my area again, just drop an e-mail and we'll discuss this all over some beer.

823 Owl  Sat, Oct 27, 2007 4:37:38am

re: #815 Classic Conservative

Fjordam -

"If you still try to export democracy to the Islamic world, win their hearts and minds and continue Muslim immigration as if 9/11 never happened, you will continue to be on the defensive."

Perhaps it is time to clear this up, what is your definition of the offensive? What strategy would you pursue?

It is not just a matter of "exporting democracy" it is a matter of exporting (over generations) societal change. This is the loooonnnng war to which there is no good alternative. We cannot stand-by and do nothing and we cannot commit genocide, what would you have us do?

The enemy is poltical Islam. Mohammed conflated politics and religion as no one had ever done before when he founded Islam. For 1400 years this has yielded nothing but war. We MUST plant the seed of good government in Muslim societies that will eventually lead to the de-coupling of political/imperialist (Sharia law, kill the infidel) from religious (pray to Allah, show hospitality to all guests) Islam. blockquote>


And if they refuse your offer of the "seed of good government", then what shall you do?


think about it.


If they refuse to be liberated? If they refuse to join the modern world? If they refuse to give up jihad in exchange for some form of westerized-progressive-modren version of Islam? Then.......what will we do?

If the muslim world was willing to do this, they would have done it on 9-12. They would have stood up with the rest of the world, condemned the attacks that killed 3000+ innocent people, and revised islam to be the religion that Bush thinks it is. But they did not. THEY DID NOT. I understand the logic, but you - and all of us - must remember we are not dealing with a logical group of people when you talk about those involved in radical islam. You're dealing with brainwashed, cultic lunatics that would just as soon slit your throat or chop off your head as hear you speak your mind about their "religion."

I don't believe for one second that there is a political answer to dealing with terrorist lunatics bent on world domination or the destruction of Israel.

Your suggestion sounds alot like offering German Nazi's a democracy and expecting them to just say " ok, that sounds like something we could work on someday." Like the Nazi's, teh Islamofacists are intent on an "all or nothing" battle.......and I think it's a little foolish that many people refuse to acknowledge that fact. You cannot offer a chew toy to a pit bull with blood on his mind. They don't want to play fair....they want your throat or your submission - and maybe BOTH. As do the islamofacists.

Peace with madmen is not possible, unless you are willing to submit to their rule.


I will not submit, no matter the cost. Liberty or Death has never meant more than it does today.

824 ryannon  Sat, Oct 27, 20