Truth is what truth is.

the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe

QED.

I can just imagine the last video ending with a seig heil (spl?) - Charles, thank you for standing up to this crap.

Open mouth insert shoe leather and bite down hard. These morons are just as useful to a real solution as the tools we have here clamoring for defeat.

Oh my. Well, looks like we are about to have another thread marathon.

Utterly disgusting as this is, will it change the minds of anyone on the other side of the fence?

I hope so. But I seriously doubt it.

Up with Flem power *cough*
/s

Interesting, and frustrating. These guys seem to be piggy-backing their white-supremacy ideas on the back of a legitimate concern about rising Islamic extremism.

The effect, I suspect, is to force the middle majority to stay silent, for fear of falling in with the likes of Mr. White Europe.

the Vlaams Blok, Vlaams Belang - for me still one and the same party - has remained true to itself

Just like with the islamists- we do ourselves a grave disservice when we fail to take our enemies at their word.

All this sunshine and no Gorebull warning.

"With friends like these..."

Seriously. These folks are not wanted. They give real ammo to the lefty 'anti-islamicists are racist' trope. They have a agenda of white superiority that is immoral, unpalatable, and undemocratic. While they are not (yet) the threat that is islamofascism, they are a hop, skip, and reactionary jump away from becoming one. I say shun them and their kind. They are no allies in this war.

Be careful when fighting a monster...not to become the monster....who we fight with matters....President Bush fights with the monsters...and wonders why he can't beat them.....trust your eyes...not your pride.

Sigh.

Well, on the bright side, THIS time, the Jews have someplace to go (Israel).

It's necessary that Europe wakes up to the threat of Islamization, and does something about the take over of Muslims...

Unfortunately, the Jews will get caught in between, just like the Crusades.

But on the bright side... this time, the Jews have someplace to go.

It's only the tip of the iceberg.

Hazardous air sparks mass warnings in California

So sorry for the California lizards...I remember 03...not nice. [Link: www.breitbart.com...]

History repeating?

re: #8 Cognito

When both your friends and your enemies can legitimately point to the same concern in regards to your new friends- it should really set off a red flag about your new friends. Your old friends point it out with concern, while your enemies point to it with glee- this should have been telling in and of itself. I'm not surprised to learn Charles' caution was well founded.

re: #15 storagemanager
Blessedly humid, cool fog came onshore yesterday. It's a beautiful day today in Santa Monica. Hope good air is moving inland.

I still have a hard time keeping the Swedes and the Phlegms separate.

But this sounds pretty convincing.

re: #16 RobCon

Not if I can help it.

re: #8 Cognito

Interesting, and frustrating. These guys seem to be piggy-backing their white-supremacy ideas on the back of a legitimate concern about rising Islamic extremism.

The effect, I suspect, is to force the middle majority to stay silent, for fear of falling in with the likes of Mr. White Europe.

I'm afraid that this is already happening. Many people that I know have no wish for major demographic changes and no love for the Islamic assimilation of everything still feel the need to qualify their statements with statements demonizing the West or minimizing the threat. Why? To plainly state how they feel might be taken as racist, unbalanced, and uncritical.

the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe

"White".

"Europe".

What happened to the nations?!

What happened to "British"? To "French"? To "Italians"? To "Germans"? To "Spaniards"?

Here's another from my comment responses (it's from my post I just linked):

[...] try the thought-experiment of grouping China, Japan, North Korea, South Korea, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia under either an "Asian Union" or, in antithesis to this, a group that needs to guard "Asian interests", to work "to preserve yellow Asia". Both would be attempts to group together diverse nations, nations sharing only basic history, very little culture, and nothing beyond the irrelevant and lazy criterion of physical appearance. I think it's absurd for Europe as it would be absurd for the Far East.

"White Europe" and "European Union". Two sides of the same coin. With nationalism, the one idea that could preserve the life and civil liberties of people everywhere, trodden underfoot in this fruitless brawl.

In the first video the camera zooms in on the back of the girl's shirt. It reads:

Meer Vlaanderen
Vlaams Blok

I wonder if this was before Vlaams Blok was banned?

Ringing in my ears like a death nell. Good call Charles.... you are thorough and hesitant in lending your support. Unlike a certain someone.
The minute "white" is injected into anything.... it cuts like knife to reopen the wounds of eras, decades, centuries past. There is no room on the bus for elitists because they offend and polarize before the first word is ever spoken.

re: #22 ZionistYoungster

the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe

"White".

"Europe".

What happened to the nations?!

What happened to "British"? To "French"? To "Italians"? To "Germans"? To "Spaniards"?

Here's another from my comment responses (it's from my post I just linked):

[...] try the thought-experiment of grouping China, Japan, North Korea, South Korea, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia under either an "Asian Union" or, in antithesis to this, a group that needs to guard "Asian interests", to work "to preserve yellow Asia". Both would be attempts to group together diverse nations, nations sharing only basic history, very little culture, and nothing beyond the irrelevant and lazy criterion of physical appearance. I think it's absurd for Europe as it would be absurd for the Far East.

"White Europe" and "European Union". Two sides of the same coin. With nationalism, the one idea that could preserve the life and civil liberties of people everywhere, trodden underfoot in this fruitless brawl.

Well, IIRC, the Japanese during the war gave the idea of an Asian wide Japanese empire the spiffy title of 'The Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere'.

Is it possible these groups are confusing skin color with culture? People who base their opinions on what they see rather than on what they know (or should know) are usually not the brightest of bulbs.

re: #22 ZionistYoungster

Excellent point.

Filip Dewinter: ‘Yes, the Vlaams Blok (Flemish Block) chooses our own people first (slogan: Eigen Volk Eerst). And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a Flemish Flanders. And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe.’

Charming.

I'm doing some research, need a hand so link dump time

Flemish Branch of Blood and Honor (no proven connections to VB, but the trials haven't started yet.)
Article on False Flag Terror attack (Again, not connected by any fact to VB)

Vlaams Belang Manifesto, from their page

VB wiki page

Need translation help here, something about an event at an opposition website, Gay Games, Blood and Honor are the only english words

Who VB is teaming with in EU Parliament

Pat Buchanan likes VB

Report: Syrian reactor built in 2001

Experts examining new satellite images from 2003 estimate construction of Syrian complex bombed by Israel began six years ago

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

re: #23 konservo

I wonder if this was before Vlaams Blok was banned?

I wondered the same thing but does it really make a difference? I don't think he took that statue out of his house after Blok was outlawed. As he said in the other slip it's still the same party with the same goals.

I'll repeat what I said days ago:

The war for public support, in hopes of effecting positive change and avoiding a literal war, is different than a literal war.

When the literal war begins, you take any allies you can get from any place you can get them. (Stalin, anyone?) Some of the Euro A-J's are already in that place, mentally.

Here in the US, at least, it's still a war for public support, and you will be tarred not just by whom you willing to hold hands with, but by whomever those people in turn are willing to hold hands with. If we give implicit endorsement to people who are one or two links away from white supremacists, we'll lose the battle for public support for the A-J movement, (and incidentally, lose our own souls in the bargain, if that means anything to you).

Charles,

Thank you for staying on top of this.

re: #8 Cognito

Interesting, and frustrating. These guys seem to be piggy-backing their white-supremacy ideas on the back of a legitimate concern about rising Islamic extremism.

The effect, I suspect, is to force the middle majority to stay silent, for fear of falling in with the likes of Mr. White Europe.

Or, given the history of Nazism and islamist common goals (see WWII), they are perhaps deliberately working to discredit the real anti-islamist movement.

re: #29 Thanos

I'm doing some research, need a hand so link dump time

Flemish Branch of Blood and Honor (no proven connections to VB, but the trials haven't started yet.)
Article on False Flag Terror attack (Again, not connected by any fact to VB)

Vlaams Belang Manifesto, from their page

VB wiki page

Need translation help here, something about an event at an opposition website, Gay Games, Blood and Honor are the only english words

Who VB is teaming with in EU Parliament

Pat Buchanan likes VB

He would.

Charles,

Many of us here are astute students of history despite many attempts to rewrite or obscure the facts of what happened. It was the mistake of the Allies of WWII to trust the intentions of the Soviets which led to the Cold War. It was the mistake of the free world to think Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan could behave as reasonable nations in the world.

To compromise our integrity, as you have pointed out many times, will play into the hands of our declared enemies the Neo Socialists and Islamic Fascists. They will use any such alliances, real or perceived, to marginalize our ability to keep up and defeat the propaganda game played out against the free world with disingenuous reports of our military services overseas, political engineering on the home front, and the assault on basic liberties. By excluding these groups that claim to be on the same side we will gain the larger appeal of the public. No Compromise!

re: #34 galloping granny

Yes. I pointed this out on previous, related thread.

There's another video here

Filip Dewinter: I still can't decide which of the three variations would be most unpleasant, but anyway, if that would be the case, then I've raised her wrong, but it's her choice, not mine.

Presenter: You really think that? What's wrong with a negro?

Dewinter: I have no problems with it. It's her choice. All I'm saying is, that it's not simple, talking from 20 years experience, to live with someone from your own culture who shares your values. If she comes home with someone from another culture, regardless of skin color, then it becomes very difficult to keep a relationship like that stable.

Etc.

Most revealing point to me is that he regards the three options equally unpleasant. Keeping Flanders white and traditional is what motivates Dewinter, not resistance to jihad or creeping sharia.

Cheers for not following the others blogs in ignoring this crap. The only thing I hate more than a jihadist is a stumpy euro-nazi.

Their tone and body language reminds me of howard dean which is flat scary and is part of the reason why I think people shyed away from him. Given what howard dean has said since he has become the dnc leader towards republicans, makes him that much scarier that the dems chose him to lead.

the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe

WHOAAAAAA Nelly.

re: #35 storagemanager

He would.

lol That article speaks volumes to me.

For years now...we have been discussing the fact that iSLam will either entirely take over europe..or europe will revive its past, and do something crazy to end the threat....looks like the "crazies" are back.

re: #37 BeerForMyHorses

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. ~~Napoleon Bonaparte

i remember the disappointment i felt after reading "Camp of the Saints". why can't europeans address the issue without going racist?

you can't beat something with nothing. islam has bulldozed over the vague socialist-multicultural-tolerant-european zeitgeist. they seem unwilling to unite around god and country. the american notions of freedom and capitalism never really took hold there.

what else is left but race? are the only options a caliphate or a new IVth reich? i'm not sure which would be the greater bloodbath.

Great - another Euro podium banger. Just what we needed in a sea of blind idiot morons.

Charles, just heard about mum. She's got a bead reserved on the ol' rosary. Hang in there, man.

Two anti-semitic forces rising in Europe. Always, always the forces of darkness must first rise and fight against the Jews, after they finish with them it is on to the Christians. Remember after the Jews were annihilated by Titus in 70 AD, the persecution of the Christians soon began in earnest under the Roman Emperors. The Jew represents the pinnacle of civilization, of rule of law, and human freedom, not the freedom of licentiousness, but the freedom to worship God without coercion. Darkness must quench that freedom in order to reign over men.

The european left has to be turned around to face the islamic agenda. Leaving the confrontation to the racist right will of course lead nowhere good.

We need the gays, lesbians, winos, ham lovers, Jews, buddhists, hindus, sikhs, greek orthodox, catholics, wiccans, and masons on board. Not freakin' Nazis.

Imams in the Mosques screaming for Islamic Supremacy.
This group agitating for White European Supremacy.
The question remains 'Can the center hold"
Charles is right to shine light on this. Always be careful who you join with

re: #32 Dead Sea Squirrel

When the literal war begins, you take any allies you can get from any place you can get them.

Including racists and/or anti-Semites?

Iranian police have ordered shut and sealed several Tehran bookshops which also provide coffee and snacks to readers, because of what one officer termed "a clash of professions."
"Based on the (booksellers) union law, owners of one type of business are not allowed to practise two different professions at the same time," head of Tehran police information, Colonel Mehdi Ahmadi, told AFP on Saturday.

According to the state IRNA news agency, six book-cafes have been sealed.

"It is not possible that they open a cafe-restaurant and give such services beyond their union's job description," Ahmadi said, referring to what have become known as "book-cafes" where people borrow books, relax with a coffee and read.

But Farid Moradi of publishers Saales said many other businesses in Iran had coffee shops besides their primary profession.

"Many other places such as cinemas, swimming pools and sports clubs have a space for people to hang out and drink coffee... it seems that they (the police) are adopting a different approach" for bookshops, Moradi said.

"We received a notice to close our book-cafe and we did so within the given deadline," Moradi told AFP, adding that they reported the closure to the union on Wednesday but that police still sealed the shop on Thursday

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

re: #31 Killgore Trout

re: #23 konservo

I wonder if this was before Vlaams Blok was banned?

I wondered the same thing but does it really make a difference?

No, it doesn't. Not to me. When I see how she is being indoctrinated with hatred it makes me sick, whether Vlaams Blok had been banned at the time or not.

Other than admitting the link between the current and banned parties, taken by itself, this quote isn't really damning at all...

Filip Dewinter: ‘Up with the Flemish power. Up with the Flemish power. The traditional parties have moved to the left, while the Vlaams Blok, Vlaams Belang - for me still one and the same party - has remained true to itself. ... The Vlaams Belang is the only dam against the islamization and foreignization (vervreemding) of our big cities. That was true yesterday, today and I tell you now it won’t be any different in 2012. ... Promoting tolerance is easy and yes, I’m in favor of streets without hate, but together with many Flemish I’m also in favor for streets without jihad.’

Now, this is quite damning...

Filip Dewinter: ‘Yes, the Vlaams Blok (Flemish Block) chooses our own people first (slogan: Eigen Volk Eerst). And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a Flemish Flanders. And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe.’

re: #49 Sharmuta

re: #32 Dead Sea Squirrel

When the literal war begins, you take any allies you can get from any place you can get them.

Including racists and/or anti-Semites?

Not me...I disagree.

re: #44 varmint

It could be worse, a multi-front war with multiple enemies fighting each other!

I have a feeling when he says 'white Europe', he does not mean in in the same sense as 'white Christmas'. Its not a holiday thing, I think.

re: #52 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

Filip Dewinter: ‘Yes, the Vlaams Blok (Flemish Block) chooses our own people first (slogan: Eigen Volk Eerst). And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a Flemish Flanders. And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe.

So did Hitler.

Ok, I just found an eight minute speech from current SD leader Jimmie Akesson on Youtube from 2005, when he was a candidate for party leadership. I've watched half of it, but I've decided to translate the entire piece. It's some really petty and smallminded racist shit he's spewing...

Here's a comment postedin defense of VB at Brussels journal....

The Jewish genocide is mainly used by the extreme left and the media as a weapon to hurt Europe and attack European genes through the means of mass immigration. Many Jews are at the forefront of this tactic. I am sure they care about what happened to their people at the time of Hitler's Europe, but they are not soberly remembering that episode. They are using it ad nauseam to hurt us. By the way, the Jews were certainly not in the past, and are certainly not today the least race conscious people on the earth. How did they manage to retain their cohesiveness during several centuries living among Europeans? How can they (da Jooos- ed) accuse us of racism towards them and claim that they are exempt of any racism towards us? This is dishonest. How should we call the policy of mass immigration aimed at the white race? Although I know that not all Jews agree with it. The crime of Hitler was not racism, it was mass murder.

A glimpse inside the mind of a VB supporter.

re: #55 Maine's Michael

I have a feeling when he says 'white Europe', he does not mean in in the same sense as 'white Christmas'. Its not a holiday thing, I think.

It didn't stick to the lawn, but did I ever tell you about the time is snowed at my house on Christmas Eve, 2004.

re: #56 storagemanager

re: #52 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

Filip Dewinter: ‘Yes, the Vlaams Blok (Flemish Block) chooses our own people first (slogan: Eigen Volk Eerst). And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a Flemish Flanders. And yes, the Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe.

So did Hitler.

Well, duh!

That is why I referred to that as a 'damning' comment.

Wow, Charles, just wow!

Again, thank you.

I stuck with trading the translations. To be honest? I did not need or want to watch the videos, as the words were enough.

Sorry, but I keep getting a shuddering feeling, as this seems to resemble the mid to late 1930's in Europe.But Albore had not yet invented the internet, in order to spread the hate all over the world in a nano-second.

Wow. Another huge mistake by the anti-Islamists, at Michigan State:

[Link: www.lsj.com...]

The article doesn't mention it, but Nick Griffin is the head of the British National Party.

Pamela...WTFU!

I think it goes without saying that integrity is what is at stake. Without it we are lost and become nothing more than the justification of scorn and derision that the soundbytes from others already claim us to be.
"The record of one's life must needs prove
more interesting to him who writes it than
to him who reads what has been written."
~~ Elizabeth Kenny

Politics is never straightforward and sometimes it makes for strange bedfellows. The left have been using the excuse of your "allying" yourself with neo-Nazis for decades while at the same time allying themselves with religious neo-Nazis. There are a lot of parties in Europe with dubious pasts...especially in places like Spain, Italy and even Ireland. Does that mean if they are against dhimmification of Europe now one has to keep arms length? Desperate times need desperate measures...

re: #25 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

Well, IIRC, the Japanese during the war gave the idea of an Asian wide Japanese empire the spiffy title of 'The Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere'.

And we all know what the Japanese during WWII were. So that puts in perspective the political orientation (and I'm not talking about the Left/Right split) of anyone who does the same with Europe.

I feel like those Old Left / Euston Manifesto guys whose original, benign left-wing political theory from the FDR days has long been hijacked by the Marxists, so that "Left-wing socialist" is now a synonym for "Communist". In my case, I'm one of the few true "Right-wing nationalists", but on the mention of that phrase, the first thought of a lot of people would be that I'm a Stormfronter. Hijacking is a bitch.

Leave it to Texas to help Nebraska finally discover its defense. 3-3 tie, late 2nd quarter.

re: #53 storagemanager

In literal wars, i.e. hand to hand combat, field artillery, bombing raids, etc. our soldiers have had to fight alongside racists for years.

Remember, it was only in WW2 that the US Armed Forces were integrated.

One note to Lizards:

Please do not diss the Netherlands, they are our allies and fight beside us in Afghanistan. Withdrawal of troops is under debate now in Belgium.

Also note that about half of the Flemish don't even want to think about seceding according to recent polls.

re: #49 Sharmuta

far be it from me to correct you,but re-read his post he's saying what you're saying

"If we give implicit endorsement to people who are one or two links away from white supremacists, we'll lose the battle for public support for the A-J movement, (and incidentally, lose our own souls in the bargain, if that means anything to you)."

#54 Idle Drifter 10/27/07 1:51:55 pm reply quote report 1
re: #44 varmint

It could be worse, a multi-front war with multiple enemies fighting each other!

i'd prefer that to one united superstate.

there are a few simple beliefs that hold a ethnic mess like the united states together. compared to the rest of the world, we get along. the europeans simply refuse to consider any of them.

You guys are jumping to conclusions by equating a "white Europe" with "white supremacy." This is a PC trap that you shouldn't rush to jump into in order to brandish your moral credentials. I don't think anyone here is an expert on this movement and the underlying tone and framing a few snippets doesn't prove anything. If what they are saying is that they identify with what they see as a "white" or "European" or "Flemish" culture doesn't mean they are drooling to start exterminating people. Cool down the moral self righteousness until you see more than you do now.

re: #63 Macker

She officially made it to my shit list, because of the revisionist tactics.

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Here's a comment postedin defense of VB at Brussels journal....

The Jewish genocide is mainly used by the extreme left and the media as a weapon to hurt Europe and attack European genes through the means of mass immigration. Many Jews are at the forefront of this tactic. I am sure they care about what happened to their people at the time of Hitler's Europe, but they are not soberly remembering that episode. They are using it ad nauseam to hurt us. By the way, the Jews were certainly not in the past, and are certainly not today the least race conscious people on the earth. How did they manage to retain their cohesiveness during several centuries living among Europeans? How can they (da Jooos- ed) accuse us of racism towards them and claim that they are exempt of any racism towards us? This is dishonest. How should we call the policy of mass immigration aimed at the white race? Although I know that not all Jews agree with it. The crime of Hitler was not racism, it was mass murder.

A glimpse inside the mind of a VB supporter.

Apparently, this guy did not read "Mein Kampf". Nor is he up to speed on Hitler's race laws.

Astounding.

re: #58 Killgore Trout
That is one sick speech.

What have the flemish ever given us? A few good painters a few hundred years ago, and a couple of good beers. Other than that, nada, zip, goose.

re: #70 Boondock St. Bender

So- Europeans get a pass?

re: #62 Charles

We have been invaded.

re: #60 Ed mahmoud abu al KahoulI know...I was agreeing with you Ed.

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Killgore

Sick. But not a surprise after what Charles has bravely put forward this week...and you, Thanos, and a group of lizards are to be commended. Thank you.

re: #49 Sharmuta

re: #53 storagemanager

When I say literal, I mean literal.

Stalin was just as bloody a monster as Hitler, but we knew we could contain him after the war ended, so we allied with him to defeat Hitler. If literal civil war breaks out in Europe between Jihadis and anti-Jihadis who have racists/anti-semites in their ranks, then yes, I will support the A-J's, because something can be done with them after the war. Jihadism, in contrast, cannot be exorcised.

re: #78 David IV of Georgia

Those documents are not from Vlaams Belang -- they're from the Sweden Democrats.

re: #72 rem1776

You guys are jumping to conclusions by equating a "white Europe" with "white supremacy." This is a PC trap that you shouldn't rush to jump into in order to brandish your moral credentials. I don't think anyone here is an expert on this movement and the underlying tone and framing a few snippets doesn't prove anything. If what they are saying is that they identify with what they see as a "white" or "European" or "Flemish" culture doesn't mean they are drooling to start exterminating people. Cool down the moral self righteousness until you see more than you do now.

Better ways to want to assert pride in national culture/identity than devolving it down to skin color. And talk of a 'white Europe' does just that.

Compare to Louisiana, a state that was part of the Confederacy, that had no problem electing the son of Indian immigrants because he clearly embraced the American culture, and was seen as competent and honest. Another reason why I think the US is generally in better shape than most of Europe.

re: #72 rem1776

Right. Cause when the White Supremacists in THIS country start talking about a "White America", they only mean it from a cultural aspect. Sounds even more PC than what you accusing this forum of.

Silly rabbit. Trix are for kids.

re: #65 Andrew Ian Dodge

The fallacy of desparate times for desperate measures... is Newton's third law......""For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

This is not a path that will lead to victory. Education and throwing off the shackles of dogma is the path.... but we have to stave off the militants to let them find it.

OT and linkage:

On Countercurrents, by Khalid Amayreh: Gaza: The Auschwitz Of Our Time

I can't read beyond the title. Not right now. Maybe in a few days, after I get over it, and when I see the article making the rounds on the usual venues (CounterPunch, Common Dreams etc.).

re: #72 rem1776

You guys are jumping to conclusions by equating a "white Europe" with "white supremacy." This is a PC trap that you shouldn't rush to jump into in order to brandish your moral credentials. I don't think anyone here is an expert on this movement and the underlying tone and framing a few snippets doesn't prove anything. If what they are saying is that they identify with what they see as a "white" or "European" or "Flemish" culture doesn't mean they are drooling to start exterminating people. Cool down the moral self righteousness until you see more than you do now.

The thing is, the response to creeping or galloping islamization should be one that is fought along cultural, not racial, lines.

That you do not see the folly of the racial approach tells us, or me at least, much about who YOU are.

re: #62 Charles

Wow. Another huge mistake by the anti-Islamists, at Michigan State:

[Link: www.lsj.com...]

The article doesn't mention it, but Nick Griffin is the head of the British National Party.

Notice how Tancredo gets tarred in the comments through guilt by association. This is the real danger, we do not want to discredit those brave few who carry the torch for us by associations with known radicals.

re: #49 Sharmuta

re: #32 Dead Sea Squirrel

When the literal war begins, you take any allies you can get from any place you can get them.

Including racists and/or anti-Semites?

This question has been asked a few times the past few days. Before all this information came to light, I did catch myself saying that I would not ask those around me what they were if they were helping me defeat islam and there was blood in my streets.

I see the light. I'm in my mid 30's and was not taught much at all about nazism. I knew it was bad, I knew it was evil, but it's been whitewashed in our history books in our public schools to provide the proper gut feeling of repulsion. We have created such a mess that people are willing to compromise to another fascist group.

re: #82 Dead Sea Squirrel

re: #49 Sharmuta

re: #53 storagemanager

When I say literal, I mean literal.

Stalin was just as bloody a monster as Hitler, but we knew we could contain him after the war ended, so we allied with him to defeat Hitler. If literal civil war breaks out in Europe between Jihadis and anti-Jihadis who have racists/anti-semites in their ranks, then yes, I will support the A-J's, because something can be done with them after the war. Jihadism, in contrast, cannot be exorcised.

We did not contain them....we fought a cold war...that lead us to today.

re: #88 Maine's Michael

The thing is, the response to creeping or galloping islamization should be one that is fought along cultural, not racial, lines.

100% agree!

re: #72 rem1776

You guys are jumping to conclusions by equating a "white Europe" with "white supremacy." This is a PC trap that you shouldn't rush to jump into in order to brandish your moral credentials. I don't think anyone here is an expert on this movement and the underlying tone and framing a few snippets doesn't prove anything. If what they are saying is that they identify with what they see as a "white" or "European" or "Flemish" culture doesn't mean they are drooling to start exterminating people. Cool down the moral self righteousness until you see more than you do now.

Whoa....

Atleast when the mayor of new orleans said that he wanted a chocolate city, some Americans stood up and said that was bullshit.

re: #77 Sharmuta

no they don't.The way i read it was:
we should not team up w/ white sup. wether we have a common enemy or not.

re: #82 Dead Sea Squirrel

How many people lost their lives due to that alliance with stalin? We have no idea how history would have played out if we hadn't- we will never know, but that is a moral relativist answer to start equating this to stalin.

re: #84 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

It's not about skin color. It's about integrity and national sovereignty. Alienating an immigration population in the interest of proclamations of national identify is condemnation of whole populations of diverse groups. It simply can not be done.

re: #62 Charles

Wow. Another huge mistake by the anti-Islamists, at Michigan State:

[Link: www.lsj.com...]

The article doesn't mention it, but Nick Griffin is the head of the British National Party.

Folks, look at this link. It's not just the European anti-Islamization movement that's being corrupted by neo-Nazi connections. The BNP is seriously bad news, and Nick Griffin is a Holocaust denier. I'm absolutely appalled that the Young Americans for Freedom at MSU would have anything to with this person.

My God. What's going on here?

re: #83 Charles

re: #78 David IV of Georgia

Those documents are not from Vlaams Belang -- they're from the Sweden Democrats.

I'm sorry. I stand corrected. Please delete post if you will.

re: #76 Maine's Michael

What have the flemish ever given us? A few good painters a few hundred years ago, and a couple of good beers. Other than that, nada, zip, goose.

Their troops are fighting with us in Afghanistan.

Another idiot at brussels journal smells fauxtography on the White Power flag......

I think the Celtic cross might have been rendered on a transparent folded 3D surface and the resulting picture superimposed on some real black flag in the original picture. Or possibly even on a real flag of a different color, because the transparancy of this flag might be a bit too strong -- it would have been a crappy flag made of a very cheap fabric. Another thing that looks fishy is the folding itself, which strikes me as ungeometrical or at least over-the-top, given the edges of the flag. Finally, I can't make sense of the (very) strong on-and-off blurring of those pixels that make up the edges of the white cross.

Globular Clusters!

There is no mistaking who these people are, and what they want.

NO
PRISONERS,
R

re: #36 Idle Drifter

Charles,

Many of us here are astute students of history despite many attempts to rewrite or obscure the facts of what happened. It was the mistake of the Allies of WWII to trust the intentions of the Soviets which led to the Cold War.

Oh, it just makes me think how different the world would be now, if the allies had continued on after defeating Germany and Japan, and defeated the Soviety Union. Maybe wouldn't have the resources or manpower at that point. Maybe the people were too tired of war. Maybe the politicians would rather have assumed Russia had peaceful intentions. But, damn. We wouldn't have Putin today. We wouldn't have Russia messing around in countries all over the world, trying to make things bad just to screw the US.
And the russian people may have had a better chance at a real, long lasting democracy, with the good economy that accompanies it. The russian people would be much better off.

Oh well, just dreaming. :p

re: #82 Dead Sea Squirrel

By the way...that was a deal with the Devil...The U.S.S.R killed or locked up their Jews for many years...Watch who you trust....or get blood on your fingers.

re: #97 Charles

New thread? People will really be pissed.

I say go for it, sound the alarm.

re: #99 Thanos

re: #76 Maine's Michael

What have the flemish ever given us? A few good painters a few hundred years ago, and a couple of good beers. Other than that, nada, zip, goose.

Their troops are fighting with us in Afghanistan.

OK, how's this:

What have the flemish ever given us? A few good painters a few hundred years ago, and a couple of good beers, and a few token battle-avoiding soldiers in afghanistan. Other than that, nada, zip, goose.

Hitler could not have come to power had it not been for the German Peoples fear of Stalin and Soviet Communism as well as an institutional and well developed prejudicial racism. The "Majority" looked the other way or "went along with the program like good sheep". It looks like these Flemish political parties have learned politics from the lessons of history and wouldn't mind capitalizing on them.

re: #89 Thanos

Rudy has soooo many people on his staff that are active in the antiJihad movement. We can't let this happen any more. We may already be fucked.

re: #93 Highrise

Beat me to it.

re: #91 storagemanager

re: #82 Dead Sea Squirrel

re: #49 Sharmuta

re: #53 storagemanager

When I say literal, I mean literal.

Stalin was just as bloody a monster as Hitler, but we knew we could contain him after the war ended, so we allied with him to defeat Hitler. If literal civil war breaks out in Europe between Jihadis and anti-Jihadis who have racists/anti-semites in their ranks, then yes, I will support the A-J's, because something can be done with them after the war. Jihadism, in contrast, cannot be exorcised.

We did not contain them....we fought a cold war...that lead us to today.

Yes, we did contain them. We did fight a cold war. We won that war. The world did not go up in a nuclear holocaust. If we had not taken Stalin as an ally, Hitler may well have won, and the ovens would have stayed hot until every Jew was gone. We made a devil's bargain in WW2, and in the end, we won.

re: #103 storagemanager

Thanks for pointing that out. I have a friend who can attest to that...she and her family were able to get out, but it was not easy, putting it mildly. Their love for this country puts American-born L ³ traitors to shame, except for the fact that they have none.

re: #109 Dead Sea Squirrel
Russia just embraced Iran and China,Syria and North Korea...what did we win?

re: #93 Highrise

Highrise:

Ray Nagin should join Vlaams Blok - that way, the party can construct a more agreeable platform: Belgian White Chocolate for everyone.

This man chose death over joining the Nazis.

re: #111 storagemanager

Time.

Of course, the easiest thing to do is to whip up ethnic nationalism and racial hatred. Especially easy when times are bad, or the population has been stewing in a a pressure cooker made of politially correct social constraints, or both.

re: #97 Charles

Read the MSU YAF version of the incident in their press release...

Conservatives Assaulted After Speaker Shouted Down
Conservatives Chased by Violent Protesters with Baseball Bats

East Lansing, Mich. – Nick Griffin, the chairman of the British National Party, did not receive a pleasant welcome during his visit to Michigan State University on Friday. Countered by a mob of extremists, Griffin continually faced loud remarks and booing during his two-hour speech at the university.

re: #93 Highrise

re: #72 rem1776

You guys are jumping to conclusions by equating a "white Europe" with "white supremacy." This is a PC trap that you shouldn't rush to jump into in order to brandish your moral credentials. I don't think anyone here is an expert on this movement and the underlying tone and framing a few snippets doesn't prove anything. If what they are saying is that they identify with what they see as a "white" or "European" or "Flemish" culture doesn't mean they are drooling to start exterminating people. Cool down the moral self righteousness until you see more than you do now.

Whoa....

Atleast when the mayor of new orleans said that he wanted a chocolate city, some Americans stood up and said that was bullshit.

Forgive me but I did not see any accusations of drooling to start exterminating people here.

I'm saying that inflammatory rhetoric is a dead end... and that's what I see here. Rallying if it is to be done at all should be best accomplished under the cry of sovereignty. National sovereignty. The time has come when old symbology and opining for Europe are gone... move past it with honor and integrity. Judge not lest ye shall be judged is not a universally accepted ideology. Integrity will stand in the face of the opposition.

Nick Griffin

In the same year he wrote a pamphlet, "Who Are The Mindbenders", which alleged that a cabal of Jews controlled the British media, "providing us with an endless diet of pro-multiracial, pro-homosexual, anti-British trash." [6]

In his defence during his 1998 prosecution (see below), Griffin said: "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat ... I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."[7]

His more recent public stance in this area is illustrated by the section "It's all a Zionist scam" in his 2005 article "Dealing with Peak Oil Criticisms". The BNP currently has a Jewish councillor, Patricia Richardson, and has stated that it has Jewish members.[8]

[edit] Critic of homosexuality

Griffin has publicly expressed his distaste for homosexuality. After David Copeland's 1999 bombing of the Admiral Duncan gay pub in Soho, London, Griffin wrote: "The TV footage of dozens of 'gay' demonstrators flaunting their perversion in front of the world’s journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive."[6]

Yeesh!

re: #113 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

I saw that on the Catholilc News Agency this morning. Wonderful inspirational story. A brave man.

re: #110 NY Nana

re: #103 storagemanager

Thanks for pointing that out. I have a friend who can attest to that...she and her family were able to get out, but it was not easy, putting it mildly. Their love for this country puts American-born L ³ traitors to shame, except for the fact that they have none.

I know this from reading one of my hero's.......
Natan Sharansky and history... [Link: www.onejerusalem.org...]

re: #114 mama winger

re: #111 storagemanager

Time.

This will be a war...like the world has never seen.

re: #111 storagemanager

re: #109 Dead Sea Squirrel
Russia just embraced Iran and China,Syria and North Korea...what did we win?

And if we had not taken Stalin as an ally in WW2, Russia would not be doing those things today? I don't follow you. As for "what did we win." Well, shutting down the death camps, for one thing.

#69 Thanos 10/27/07 1:58:00 pm
What are you bringing up the Netherlands for?

re: #121 storagemanager

re: #114 mama winger

re: #111 storagemanager

Time.

This will be a war...like the world has never seen.

I know storage.

I am not afraid.

re: #47 Maine's Michael

The european left has to be turned around to face the islamic agenda. Leaving the confrontation to the racist right will of course lead nowhere good.

We need the gays, lesbians, winos, ham lovers, Jews, buddhists, hindus, sikhs, greek orthodox, catholics, wiccans, and masons on board. Not freakin' Nazis.

You've got one buddhist ex-(sorta-)leftist here. :)

#118 continued....

He is widely regarded in Britain as a neo-Nazi and a fascist [citation needed], both of which he disputes. Many have also criticised him for meeting with David Duke, former leader of the Ku Klux Klan and visiting Libya at Muammar al-Gaddafi's expense.

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Nick Griffin

In the same year he wrote a pamphlet, "Who Are The Mindbenders", which alleged that a cabal of Jews controlled the British media, "providing us with an endless diet of pro-multiracial, pro-homosexual, anti-British trash." [6]

In his defence during his 1998 prosecution (see below), Griffin said: "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat ... I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."[7]

His more recent public stance in this area is illustrated by the section "It's all a Zionist scam" in his 2005 article "Dealing with Peak Oil Criticisms". The BNP currently has a Jewish councillor, Patricia Richardson, and has stated that it has Jewish members.[8]

[edit] Critic of homosexuality

Griffin has publicly expressed his distaste for homosexuality. After David Copeland's 1999 bombing of the Admiral Duncan gay pub in Soho, London, Griffin wrote: "The TV footage of dozens of 'gay' demonstrators flaunting their perversion in front of the world’s journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive."[6]

Yeesh!

The British Ron Paul?

re: #99 Thanos

re: #76 Maine's Michael

What have the flemish ever given us? A few good painters a few hundred years ago, and a couple of good beers. Other than that, nada, zip, goose.

Their troops are fighting with us in Afghanistan.

And, my boyfriend in college. And, nice lace.

re: #122 Dead Sea Squirrel

re: #111 storagemanager

re: #109 Dead Sea Squirrel
Russia just embraced Iran and China,Syria and North Korea...what did we win?

And if we had not taken Stalin as an ally in WW2, Russia would not be doing those things today? I don't follow you. As for "what did we win." Well, shutting down the death camps, for one thing.

Patton warned of Russia at the end....no one cared.

re: #127 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

Ha!

Its not all that difficult to see that the alternatives, given the culture of Europe, is either Islamization or a return of the "hard right" regimes of the past.

I like the guys who just want to be let alone, but the overall culture in Europe sees government as a force to be wielded by the body politic to get special favors and protect "their" interests - for the greater good, of course.

It is here (in the US), too, to a great extent - but not nearly as much as over there. Given that premise, the only two morally consistent arguments arise either from the extreme xenophobic/racist right or the multiculturalist left.

Either way, Europe loses. And it won't be very pretty, no matter which side wins.

Just stay out of Europe's business and let them immolate themselves on one alter or the other.

re: #124 mama winger

re: #121 storagemanager

re: #114 mama winger

re: #111 storagemanager

Time.

This will be a war...like the world has never seen.

I know storage.

I am not afraid.

Me either...just saying...:)

I can never keep the two groups of the Belch people apart, the Phlegms and the Maroons.

re: #97 Charles

On the Banks of the Red Cedar
is a school that's known to all.
Its specialty is squelching
conserv'tive speech for all....

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Nick Griffin

In the same year he wrote a pamphlet, "Who Are The Mindbenders", which alleged that a cabal of Jews controlled the British media, "providing us with an endless diet of pro-multiracial, pro-homosexual, anti-British trash." [6]

In his defence during his 1998 prosecution (see below), Griffin said: "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat ... I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."[7]

His more recent public stance in this area is illustrated by the section "It's all a Zionist scam" in his 2005 article "Dealing with Peak Oil Criticisms". The BNP currently has a Jewish councillor, Patricia Richardson, and has stated that it has Jewish members.[8]

[edit] Critic of homosexuality

Griffin has publicly expressed his distaste for homosexuality. After David Copeland's 1999 bombing of the Admiral Duncan gay pub in Soho, London, Griffin wrote: "The TV footage of dozens of 'gay' demonstrators flaunting their perversion in front of the world’s journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive."[6]

Yeesh!

YAF must disassociate itself from him ASAP.

re: #129 storagemanager

Do I really have to say hind sight is 20/20? Let us not forget we deal with an enemy that flouts old rules... it trancends national identities.

Charles:
Sometimes taking the high road and calling out evil for what it is....doesn't make you many friends.
I applaud you! Good work!
The roots from which this sprung are bad....and the only fruit from which can come from it will be rotten. No matter what they want to call it.

re: #129 storagemanager

Nobody is saying that making kissy face with Uncle Joe was a "good" thing. It was the lesser of two evils. Are you arguing that letting Hitler win was the better option?

re: #131 MiB

Its not all that difficult to see that the alternatives, given the culture of Europe, is either Islamization or a return of the "hard right" regimes of the past.

I like the guys who just want to be let alone, but the overall culture in Europe sees government as a force to be wielded by the body politic to get special favors and protect "their" interests - for the greater good, of course.

It is here (in the US), too, to a great extent - but not nearly as much as over there. Given that premise, the only two morally consistent arguments arise either from the extreme xenophobic/racist right or the multiculturalist left.

Either way, Europe loses. And it won't be very pretty, no matter which side wins.

Just stay out of Europe's business and let them immolate themselves on one alter or the other.

I would like to think and am wondering if there does exist a silent majority in Europe as there is here that would stand in the gap to prevent a historical "do over".

re: #97 Charles

re: #62 Charles

Wow. Another huge mistake by the anti-Islamists, at Michigan State:

[Link: www.lsj.com...]

The article doesn't mention it, but Nick Griffin is the head of the British National Party.

Folks, look at this link. It's not just the European anti-Islamization movement that's being corrupted by neo-Nazi connections. The BNP is seriously bad news, and Nick Griffin is a Holocaust denier. I'm absolutely appalled that the Young Americans for Freedom at MSU would have anything to with this person.

My God. What's going on here?

It looks like the Nazis are beginning to infiltrate the Right much as the communists have taken over the Left.

We need a central clearing house of information, something along the lines of Who's Who in Fascism .

Thank you for LGF, Charles!

re: #136 The Albatross

re: #129 storagemanager

Do I really have to say hind sight is 20/20? Let us not forget we deal with an enemy that flouts old rules... it trancends national identities.

All I'm saying is...if you make a deal with the devil...you get the devil.

97 Charles- we might see the same groups or something similar here viz the illegal alien problem. Europe is like the training wheels...

re: #117 The Albatross

I am on my 2nd cup of coffee and don't wake up till my 3rd

/cackle

Your response is to what rem1776 said, not me right?

re: #62 Charles

Wow. Another huge mistake by the anti-Islamists, at Michigan State:

[Link: www.lsj.com...]

The article doesn't mention it, but Nick Griffin is the head of the British National Party.

Wow! I can't believe that Griffin has been described as an 'anti-Islam' speaker. He's a racist - pure and simple. What's more disturbing is the gains the BNP have been making in England through a PR offensive that has seen them reinvent themselves from neo-Nazi thugs to an anti-immigration party.

Griffin is desperate for respectability and will take any opportunity to speak in England; he's even tried to speak at a debate at the Oxford Union with holocaust denier David Irving.

[Link: www.ousu.org...]

Don't give the bastard a platform in the States.

Never have I said it more heartily:

Thank GOD for Charles and LGF.

these videos reminds me of this

[Link: www.albinoblacksheep.com...]

re: #116 mich-again

re: #97 Charles

Read the MSU YAF version of the incident in their press release...

Conservatives Assaulted After Speaker Shouted Down
Conservatives Chased by Violent Protesters with Baseball BatsEast Lansing, Mich. – Nick Griffin, the chairman of the British National Party, did not receive a pleasant welcome during his visit to Michigan State University on Friday. Countered by a mob of extremists, Griffin continually faced loud remarks and booing during his two-hour speech at the university.

Ugh, and I mean ugh.

Look at what's going on here. The IFAW event was hijacked by a TRUE extremist: Nick Griffin. Who then promptly hitched a ride on the "my free speech was shut down" bandwagon.

This is starting to get very depressing. How could the YAF do this?

wasn't it the nazis that had a slogan they had"ein volk, ein fatherland.....something like that?

re: #97 Charles

I'm with Killgore- they're infiltrating.

re: #141 storagemanager

To bring it home here, there is no deal with the devil. In a revisionist world chock full of rhetoric.... we are aligned against a force that seems to transcend historical alliances therefore the would not appear to apply.

It is oft repeated in the South that the KKK was once a harmless veteran's group that was hijacked by racist thugs.

Many people assume we are bad because we actually investigate and study the insidious creeping threat of Islam on free peoples.

We cannot allow our legitimate concerns be dismissed because we are linked with those who out of mere bias present themselves as superior.
If Muslims wish to join us in our efforts to remain free and peaceful, I welcome them. I don't see any lining up at the door, but should they, they are welcome. I have no quarrel with Muslims or any other people who wish to be law abiding and respectful of others.

We should actively keep our distance from those who preach and support racist agendas.

Re 84 Ed, 85 Wong , 88 Maine's

88: If that tells you enough about me to reach such conclusions it just confirms to me the low level of information you need to draw conclusions - which was essentially one of the points I was making.

85: You have no idea what they mean and simply make reference to what the KKK here believe so, ipso facto, this group functions the same way. Very scientific.

84: There are better ways and you may want to instruct them on it rather than jumping to conclusions.

Contempt prior to investigation is "proof against all , and...cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance." H Spencer

re: #143 Highrise

Right.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul in a telephone conversation with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad informed him on the latest developments in Turkey-Iraq borders.

According to Presidential Office Media Department report on Saturday evening, the two presidents underlined the necessity of maintaining unity and integrity of Iraq.

The two presidents agreed that "Occupiers have prepared ground for disunity and are supporting terrorists with their double standards," adding that terrorists are not friends of any nations in the region, including Turkey, Iran and Iraq and Iraqi government must be helped to overcome the existing problems.

Referring to the efforts made by Ankara to help people in Iraqi Kurdestan and fight against terrorism, President Gul said, "We hope that the upcoming meeting in Istanbul next week, with Iran's presence, can bring fruitful results for resolving existing problems." The two presidents also

[Link: www2.irna.com...]

re: #148 big L

Ein volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer....

re: #148 big L

wasn't it the nazis that had a slogan they had"ein volk, ein fatherland.....something like that?

In English it was,
One Folk, One Fatherland, One Leader.

re: #148 big L

wasn't it the nazis that had a slogan they had"ein volk, ein fatherland.....something like that?

volk means people... common term in political party names

re: #149 Sharmuta

re: #97 Charles

I'm with Killgore- they're infiltrating.

More like riding the tide.

re: #124 mama winger

we have a mighty good leader on his way!

re: #147 Charles

Could they have not known about his Holocaust denial before they invited him?

re: #159 hayseed

glorious hope

re: #156 Da_Beerfreak

re: #148 big L

wasn't it the nazis that had a slogan they had"ein volk, ein fatherland.....something like that?

In English it was,
One Folk, One Fatherland, One Leader.

Sounds like a rallying cry of the EU.

re: #58 Killgore Trout
From previous thread

I still question their motives.

Oh absolutely. You were looking at the results. I'm looking at the means used by the leftist. After they're on a roll they can do it to anybody over speech or any speech they deem hateful. And the socialists are coming to the White House and if the European leftists are successful the American ones will try it. In fact they are already trying to silence voices they don't like right now.

This is why we're in the current dilemma; there are most likely quite a few people in Belgium with no acceptable party and thus no representation with no options in sight.

re: #160 MandyManners

re: #147 Charles

Could they have not known about his Holocaust denial before they invited him?

I think people in general, and college kids in particular, are woefully uninformed.

Choosing to side with one Fascist organization (White Supremacists) to fend off another fascist organization (Islamists) is NOT the way to go.

The answer to Islamism is NOT racist While Supremacy!

OT:

The Arabs of Israel (ie: Israeli Arab Citizens) show their true colors and where their loyalties are.

re: #162 The Albatross

One ummah. One Mohammad. One caliphate.

re: #150 The Albatross

re: #141 storagemanager

To bring it home here, there is no deal with the devil. In a revisionist world chock full of rhetoric.... we are aligned against a force that seems to transcend historical alliances therefore the would not appear to apply.

Ack... you guys move too fast for me.

re: #160 MandyManners

I think that since the accusations of Right Wing extremist and Nazi are thrown around so much people who are uninformed always assume it's just hyperbole.

re: #162 The Albatross

More like Ein Volk, Ein Europa, Ein Brüssel....

re: #164 littleoldlady

One would hope that they would've have more carefully researched him.

re: #166 BeerForMyHorses

Two sides of a coin.

re: #160 MandyManners

re: #147 Charles

Could they have not known about his Holocaust denial before they invited him?

How long does it take to check someone out in this day and age? Killgore seems to have done it just while this thread has been running.

re: #131 MiB

That is very much the conclusion I have come to in the past few days, in the aftermath of all this bickering.

There is still, however, a point of doubt. There is one quote via Brussels Journal that's still working the cogs inside my head. I'm not saying I agree or disagree--I still haven't reached a verdict. Here's the quote (ultimate source here):

I suppose there are real 'fascists' and Nazis out there somewhere, but their numbers are insignificant; they hold no power. Who can name any incident of violence in which such people played a part? Isolated incidents by some loner somewhere don't count. Timothy McVeigh doesn't count. He was not part of any mass movement. So where do we get this idea that there are fascists under the bed waiting to get us, or conquer the world? I don't know of any, and I read many different media sources. So while we in the West are busily calling anybody to our right a 'fascist' and Nazi, there are real totalitarians, mostly on the Left, destroying our countries and cultures. [...] [Emphasis mine. --ZY]

The questions raised here are:

1) How much of the right-wing racist threat is real, as opposed to inflated by their vocality and by a treasonous left-wing media seizing upon the opportunity?

2) Is it true that the right-wing racists are the only ones in Europe with readiness to stand against the threat of the Left/Islam alliance?

The first question must be answered in order to ensure that we are not playing into the hands of the treasonous Left. The second question must be answered in order to determine whether Europe should or should not be, as both you and me concluded lately, left to stew in its own juice.

Houston, we have a problem.

Geeze, no kidding. Nazis go home. Go back into the closet where you belong. Or better yet, grow a brain and a heart and learn what really matters in life. Morally speaking, you are on the same level as the jihadis. You're just members of a rival gang. In the words of the late, great Viktor Frankl, "there are only two races, the decent and the indecent." Right now, you are members of the indecent race.

re: #152 rem1776

Sorry, but 'white europe' is enough for me.

Tell us, oh wise and subtle one, what the real meaning of those words are, and how it does not lay on a continuum of racial conflict.

Sounds like you want to talk yourself into accepting it, or perhaps you already have and are rationalizing it.

I'm not a fucking mind reader or psychoanalyst, so I don;t know for sure.

re: #165 WrathofG-d

Then they should GTFO of Israel!

"Party comrades! It is now exactly one year ago that we gathered in Perstorp for a meeting quite like this one, or, well, there were more of us then, but it was a May 1st gathering (Truumax note: big day for political manifestations in Sweden), and I stood there on stage, and I warned about increased criminality, I warned about welfare tourism, as a direct result of the EU expansion to the eastern european countries... I watched on television, it could have been thursday or friday, they interviewed some woman working for the state insurance organisation, she stated that welfare tourism has not been an issue, and there is no fear of that happening either. In the same program, it is however established that immigration from the baltic states have more than doubled in this year that they have been a part of the European Union. It is also stated that polish workers, low-wage workers, are coming to Sweden and are offering their services. Then I read an article in Svenska Dagbladet yesterday, and I found an article with the headline "The EU expansion did not lead to an increase in crime"...

And this all sounds well and good, but if you read the article, it states that the influx of drugs from the east, mainly the baltic states, have increased radically this year. It also states that swedish and baltic criminal gangs have become more closely tied together this year. And by incident, I also stumbled into the swedish radio Ekot's homepage, it could have been yesterday or the day before that, and there they are reporting about this rape that everyone has heard about on a 15-year old girl in Jordbro, now they have arrested three men, all three from the baltic states, and the police suspect that they are in Sweden for a so called "theft tour". These are a few examples of the media I have been scouring this weekend, but of course, these are things that are happening every day, all the time, and in all parts of the country.

It is certainly so, that all the most enthousiastic EU propagators are saying, that this isn't really related to the eastward expansion, it would have happened anyway, the international crime leagues care little for nation borders, it matters not what part of the border they are operating from when they commit their crimes, and there's some validity to that line of reasoning, but, that's no reason for us to make it easier for them to come here and commit their crimes, that's no reason for us to dismantle our border security. On the contrary, we must plug it up, we must increase our border security, we must strengthen our border security, we must add resources so that we are able to protect our land, protect our welfare, and not least, protect our own citizens. Everything else is of course completely illogical.

And with this, to appear in television and claim that there are no signs of welfare tourism, when at the same time you know, when you know how widespread the welfare fraud is in this country, not least among certain groups of immigrants, when you know that we grant fifty-sixty thousand permanent green cards (Truumax note: it's not called green cards in Sweden, but I can't figure out the right translation right now) per year, mainly to pure-bread asylum abusers, when you know the enormous amounts of money we are spending on this immigration, and on all these integration projects every year, well then you can start asking yourself what planet this person really comes from."

I've only translated half of the speech so far. Should I continue, or are you getting the gist of it? Like I said, petty rasist crap.

re: #160 MandyManners

re: #147 Charles

Could they have not known about his Holocaust denial before they invited him?

Google his name. How ccould they possibly have missed all of that, if they knew enough to invite him to speak?

This is just awful. I don't even know what to write about it.

Looks like I picked the wrong decade to give up drugs.

re: #168 Killgore Trout

But couldn't they have looked for his speeches/writings? They're out there.

re: #21 David IV of Georgia

re: #8 Cognito

Interesting, and frustrating. These guys seem to be piggy-backing their white-supremacy ideas on the back of a legitimate concern about rising Islamic extremism.

The effect, I suspect, is to force the middle majority to stay silent, for fear of falling in with the likes of Mr. White Europe.

I'm afraid that this is already happening. Many people that I know have no wish for major demographic changes and no love for the Islamic assimilation of everything still feel the need to qualify their statements with statements demonizing the West or minimizing the threat. Why? To plainly state how they feel might be taken as racist, unbalanced, and uncritical.

This is what the left's demonization of dissent is causing. The fringe becomes the vocal component of discourse because the good people do not like to be demonized and so do not join the discourse.

I just posted Turkey and Iran are holding hands....who next?

re: #166 BeerForMyHorses

Good point, a universally accepted rallying cry.... very evocative and an effective opiate for the masses. But not acceptable here or in any forum that stands in the way of Islam. Any creedence to this would be seen as racist.

re: #160 MandyManners

From Charles' Link:

Kyle Bristow, chairman of YAF, said his organization invited Griffin to promote intellectual debate. Bristow said he doesn't believe in many of the ideas Griffin has preached, particularly his alleged denial of the Holocaust, but does agree that the Islamic faith is a threat to America.

Holy crap.

re: #152 rem1776

Re 84 Ed, 85 Wong , 88 Maine's

88: If that tells you enough about me to reach such conclusions it just confirms to me the low level of information you need to draw conclusions - which was essentially one of the points I was making.

85: You have no idea what they mean and simply make reference to what the KKK here believe so, ipso facto, this group functions the same way. Very scientific.

84: There are better ways and you may want to instruct them on it rather than jumping to conclusions.

Contempt prior to investigation is "proof against all , and...cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance." H Spencer

I am very sympathetic to the average European alarmed by creeping sharia, whose mainstream lefty political parties welcome it, and label any opposed as racist. But it is hard not to jump to conclusions when people make arguments based not on culture, but on skin color.

For one thing, the 'White Europe' would imply that they would not welcome, say, African Christian refugees from the jihadi pogroms in Sudan, Somalia and Nigeria.

re: #97 Charles

re: #62 Charles

Wow. Another huge mistake by the anti-Islamists, at Michigan State:

[Link: www.lsj.com...]

The article doesn't mention it, but Nick Griffin is the head of the British National Party.

Folks, look at this link. It's not just the European anti-Islamization movement that's being corrupted by neo-Nazi connections. The BNP is seriously bad news, and Nick Griffin is a Holocaust denier. I'm absolutely appalled that the Young Americans for Freedom at MSU would have anything to with this person.

My God. What's going on here?

Desperation.

re: #168 Killgore Trout

re: #160 MandyManners

I think that since the accusations of Right Wing extremist and Nazi are thrown around so much people who are uninformed always assume it's just hyperbole.

They wouldn't use it if it wasn't effective to move people on a very emotional leve.

Thanks Charles for exposing racism where it shows up!

re: #178 Charles

How could they have missed it? Could they have known but hoped no one would notice? Could they foolishly believe that they can ignore this?

re: #95 Sharmuta

Actually, many lives were saved thanks to the west helping the USSR in WWII. If the USSR would have lost, it would have meant the extermination of its Jews, and then also an enslavement and a slow extermination of the Slavic peoples. Remeber, the Nazis have suppressed the Warsaw uprising in 1944 by burning down the city and driving its civilian population to Auschwitz.

re: #180 Shay4l

The fringe becomes the vocal component of discourse because the good people do not like to be demonized and so do not join the discourse

.

Bingo

re: #163 Roger

I'm looking at the means used by the leftist. After they're on a roll they can do it to anybody over speech or any speech they deem hateful.

I just touched on that subject in #168. There are real Nazis and extremists (VB, SD, BNP) who use the overblown accusations as cover to gain legitimacy. Not everyone accused is guilty but there are still a lot of guilty people who are accused.

re: #172 Shemesh

That's what upsets me.

re: #188 MandyManners

Mandy, the chairman knew. I put the paragraph up in my answer to you. Wasn't sure if you saw it.

re: #190 mama winger

re: #180 Shay4l

The fringe becomes the vocal component of discourse because the good people do not like to be demonized and so do not join the discourse

.

Bingo

yeppers, good call.

re: #179 MandyManners

Yes, Mandy- they're out there. So why still invite him? It only serves the enemy.

According to the article, they knew exactly who Nick Griffin is:

Kyle Bristow, chairman of YAF, said his organization invited Griffin to promote intellectual debate. Bristow said he doesn't believe in many of the ideas Griffin has preached, particularly his alleged denial of the Holocaust, but does agree that the Islamic faith is a threat to America.

re: #183 Highrise

re: #160 MandyManners

From Charles' Link:

Kyle Bristow, chairman of YAF, said his organization invited Griffin to promote intellectual debate. Bristow said he doesn't believe in many of the ideas Griffin has preached, particularly his alleged denial of the Holocaust, but does agree that the Islamic faith is a threat to America.

Holy crap.

Youngster should learn more discretion in choosing his allies.

I can't believe the chairman of the yaf knew his background and actually said it in that article. Wow, just wow.

The 'Volkswagen' was part of the Socialist part of the National Socialist Workers Party.

Now, I see people claim Hitler was a lefty, as a counter to the LLL/MSM assertion that Naziism is just Republican policies taken to their extreme. I know the latter is flat wrong, but I don't think the former is completely true.

Hitler was more into the 'National' part, and, IMHO, mouthed the socialist stuff because it was the party line.

re: #195 Sharmuta

re: #179 MandyManners

Yes, Mandy- they're out there. So why still invite him? It only serves the enemy.

Willful blindness.

If this goes on, we can kiss the 2008 elections goodbye. And 2012, and 2016. The USA isn't getting any 'whiter', you know.

re: #178 Charles

re: #160 MandyManners

re: #147 Charles

Could they have not known about his Holocaust denial before they invited him?

Google his name. How ccould they possibly have missed all of that, if they knew enough to invite him to speak?

This is just awful. I don't even know what to write about it.

Looks like I picked the wrong decade to give up drugs.

LOL

Considering what Hitler did to Belgium, I'm a little surprised that any white supremacist is able to live there without getting their asses kicked on a regular basis.

-jcr

re: #147 Charles

Look at what's going on here. The IFAW event was hijacked by a TRUE extremist: Nick Griffin. Who then promptly hitched a ride on the "my free speech was shut down" bandwagon.

This is starting to get very depressing. How could the YAF do this?

It looks like the YAF has failed to do their homework. They obviously did not check this guest out very well. Lets hope that this is nothing more than an isolated mistake.

re: #169 Macker

Brussel uber alles!

re: #196 Charles

According to the article, they knew exactly who Nick Griffin is:

Kyle Bristow, chairman of YAF, said his organization invited Griffin to promote intellectual debate. Bristow said he doesn't believe in many of the ideas Griffin has preached, particularly his alleged denial of the Holocaust, but does agree that the Islamic faith is a threat to America.

An object lesson in the practice of free speech is it then? America and Israel will be a last bastion.... but the Europeans will be the front as it is their ideologies that stand as the bridge.

re: #204 OldNuc

See Charles' No. 196. They knew.

re: #147 Charles

re: #116 mich-again

re: #97 Charles

Read the MSU YAF version of the incident in their press release...

Conservatives Assaulted After Speaker Shouted Down
Conservatives Chased by Violent Protesters with Baseball BatsEast Lansing, Mich. – Nick Griffin, the chairman of the British National Party, did not receive a pleasant welcome during his visit to Michigan State University on Friday. Countered by a mob of extremists, Griffin continually faced loud remarks and booing during his two-hour speech at the university.

Ugh, and I mean ugh.

Look at what's going on here. The IFAW event was hijacked by a TRUE extremist: Nick Griffin. Who then promptly hitched a ride on the "my free speech was shut down" bandwagon.

This is starting to get very depressing. How could the YAF do this?

Holy crap! Does Horowitz know about the Griffin invitation and aftermath?

re: #189 justnobody

re: #95 Sharmuta

Actually, many lives were saved thanks to the west helping the USSR in WWII. If the USSR would have lost, it would have meant the extermination of its Jews, and then also an enslavement and a slow extermination of the Slavic peoples. Remeber, the Nazis have suppressed the Warsaw uprising in 1944 by burning down the city and driving its civilian population to Auschwitz.

IIRC, Stalin had his troops hold up during the Warsaw uprising, to allow the Nazis to kill off many of the people who would oppose Soviet Communism, before letting his troops 'liberate' the Polish capital.

Of course, Hitler and Stalin were allies in the invasion of Poland.

Of course, if Hitler hadn't double crossed Stalin, would the NY Times and MSM of the day have supported a war against a Hitler allied with Stalin?

re: #62 Charles

Wow. Another huge mistake by the anti-Islamists, at Michigan State:

[Link: www.lsj.com...]

The article doesn't mention it, but Nick Griffin is the head of the British National Party.

I truly hope that people go read this article.

4 dingups isn't enough for this post of Charles'..folks..read the article and vote accordingly.

re: #201 Maine's Michael

If this goes on, we can kiss the 2008 elections goodbye. And 2012, and 2016. The USA isn't getting any 'whiter', you know.

Take heart, it isn't the "whiteness" of America that will carry the day, it is the foundational principles of our nation.

re: #200 MandyManners

Political opportunists abound. They are hijacking an issue too important to us all for us to allow this to happen.

#178 Charles

This is just awful. I don't even know what to write about it.

You're watching the death of the A-J if these people are not repudiated, immediately and totally. This is why you're freaked out to the core, as are the rest of us.

I repeat again, this is a catastrophe.

Am I the only one sitting here just shaking her head? I feel as if I'm in an elevator after it has dropped 15 floors in a free-fall.

Houston, we have a problem.

Charles, well its not Houston or even southern California and cherry picking is something I thought we condoned other sites of?

re: #201 Maine's Michael
What was the point of that post?

Ein volk!

Ein Reich!

Ein Bier!

(actually, not a bad add campaign for europe in the not too distant future.)

re: #196 Charles

According to the article, they knew exactly who Nick Griffin is:

Kyle Bristow, chairman of YAF, said his organization invited Griffin to promote intellectual debate. Bristow said he doesn't believe in many of the ideas Griffin has preached, particularly his alleged denial of the Holocaust, but does agree that the Islamic faith is a threat to America.

That moves the invitation right into the "very bad move" category.

re: #201 Maine's Michael

If this goes on, we can kiss the 2008 elections goodbye. And 2012, and 2016. The USA isn't getting any 'whiter', you know.

Color has sweet-fuck-all to do with it.

re: #215 Buckeye Abroad

Houston, we have a problem.

Charles, well its not Houston or even southern California and cherry picking is something I thought we condoned other sites of?

Apollo 13 reference. I don't think Texas, or the largest city in the South, is being picked on.

re: #211 The Albatross

What I meant was that if the anti-islamist elements ally with racists, they will lose ever increasing portions of the American population.

We will then have to welcome our new muslim overlords.

Reposted from the dead thread:

Would the least objectionable solution be a series of military coups? How strong are the militaries in the European countries in question? Does there exist a group of Pinochets that might be able to defeat both Islamists and neo-Nazis, restore order, and then step aside once the threats are contained?

I think the rise of groups like the VB and other parties is both inevitable and not as scary as Charles seems to think, but in some ways MORE disturbing and dangerous.

"Choose a White Europe." Well of course. The EU elites seek to replace the population of Europe with that of North Africa and Africa (seeking compliant peasants who don't present competitive threats in upward mobility and act as "electoral shock troops") and systematically try to destroy existing cultures and customs. [Swedish Feminists say they want to "eradicate all White men." And "rape gangs" target Swedish girls with blonde hair, to the point that anti-Rape belts (requiring two hands) and girls dying their hair black and wearing Muslim clothes is common in Sweden.]

Example: a white 14 year old girl in a British school is arrested (no, not making this up) for being "racist" for refusing to participate in a "group project" with Pakistani girls who did not speak English. The peoples of England have extraordinary racial homogeneity and presence-in-place. About 75% of Englishmen trace their ancestry back to the Neolithic inhabitants, with higher numbers for Welshman, Scots, and Irish. You'll find similar figures for Germans, Dutch, and even Frenchmen, etc. No one would turn a hair if the people of say, Mexico were to decide they would retain their cultural and racial makeup as a nation. Or the Vietnamese. That is their right as a people. To remain one.

The "racist" charge does not hold water because to oppose the extermination of European peoples and their culture is to be "racist." The word has been debased beyond meaning.

Secondly, the US is radically different in that populist pressures HAVE to be served: witness the Amnesty/Open Borders defeat by the people upon the elite. In the EU, there is no outlet for populism save extremists BECAUSE the control by elites over every outlet: media, politics, culture, business, etc. is so overwhelming. Frenchmen wish France to remain French, Britons for Britain to remain British, and Germans for Germany to remain German. This is natural and inevitable, but their only choice is for their peoples, culture, history, achievement, and everything else to disappear by connivance with a trans-national elite and immigrants from elsewhere, or choose the extremists.

People will do whatever they have to in order to survive. Particularly now that the welfare money ran out and it's a raw struggle between immigrants and natives for money to survive.

Finally Charles is flat-out uniformed and wrong about the particulars of Belgium (and would do well to read Belien's Throne in Brussels). VB exists because legitimate issues of resource allocation are not addressed in an artificial nation made up of mutually antagonistic peoples: Dutch and French speakers. Charles is also flat out, unabashedly wrong about the dangers.

Which is not VB. Rather the refusal of Europeans to address legitimate populism which led to uncontrolled crony-elitism and thus groups like VB. To avoid this in the US which already shows signs of it both PC-crony elitism must be ruthlessly fought and populism in legitimate broad-based Patriotic forms preserved. Sorry Charles you are just flat-out wrong on this one.

re: #213 Tasty Beverage

#178 Charles

This is just awful. I don't even know what to write about it.

You're watching the death of the A-J if these people are not repudiated, immediately and totally. This is why you're freaked out to the core, as are the rest of us.

I repeat again, this is a catastrophe.

I disagree - this is an opportunity: an opportunity to push the racists back to the political fringe where they belong.

re: #218 OldNuc

Per chance, were you a RPCC operator on an A4W/A1G reactor plant?

re: #212 Sharmuta

re: #200 MandyManners

Political opportunists abound. They are hijacking an issue too important to us all for us to allow this to happen.

What do they hope to gain by this?! Do they believe all "white" folks are Nazis at heart?

DOES YAF WANT TO CHASE ALL JEWS FROM THE GOP AND ENSURE THAT NONE WILL LEAVE THE DEMS?

re: #189 justnobody

re: #95 Sharmuta

Actually, many lives were saved thanks to the west helping the USSR in WWII. If the USSR would have lost, it would have meant the extermination of its Jews, and then also an enslavement and a slow extermination of the Slavic peoples. Remeber, the Nazis have suppressed the Warsaw uprising in 1944 by burning down the city and driving its civilian population to Auschwitz.

Yes, and the Soviets sat back and watched as the Warsaw uprising lead by the non-communist Polish Home Army (led by Polish Govt. in exile in London) was crushed by the Wehrmacht and the SS and the city pounded to rubble. They were quite content to let the Nazis wipe them out so the Polish communists would not face a democratic opposition.

As you say, we didn't have much choice in that matter but that didn't help the Poles who did not want to live under either the Nazis or the Soviets.

re: #196 Charles

According to the article, they knew exactly who Nick Griffin is:

Kyle Bristow, chairman of YAF, said his organization invited Griffin to promote intellectual debate. Bristow said he doesn't believe in many of the ideas Griffin has preached, particularly his alleged denial of the Holocaust, but does agree that the Islamic faith is a threat to America.

The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

I hope you see like I see....
The Verve Weeping Willow

re: #97 Charles

Folks, look at this link. It's not just the European anti-Islamization movement that's being corrupted by neo-Nazi connections. The BNP is seriously bad news, and Nick Griffin is a Holocaust denier. I'm absolutely appalled that the Young Americans for Freedom at MSU would have anything to with this person.

My God. What's going on here?

I blame Columbia.

re: #203 jcr

Considering what Hitler did to Belgium, I'm a little surprised that any white supremacist is able to live there without getting their asses kicked on a regular basis.

According to the Wiki article on Vlaams Blok (take it for what it's worth -- may or may not be true) "The founders had strong links to, and open sympathies for, the collaboration with the Nazis during World War II."

re: #217 Maine's Michael

Ein volk!

Ein Reich!

Ein Bier!

(actually, not a bad add campaign for europe in the not too distant future.)

Beer won't be allowed in Europe under the Caliphate.

re: #215 Buckeye Abroad

Houston, we have a problem.

Charles, well its not Houston or even southern California and cherry picking is something I thought we condoned other sites of?

Charles doesn't have to cherry pick to find the connenctions these creeps h ave to Fascism.

re: #120 storagemanager

He is an amazing man...and a hero. I agree with you.

Here is his Knesset profile, in case you hadn't seen it.

re: #226 MandyManners

There could be many motivating factors. All I know is we do not want racists and anti-Semites on our side.

If I want to align with racists and anti-Semites- I may as well submit.

/F*ck that

re: #223 Jim Rockford

I think the rise of groups like the VB and other parties is both inevitable and not as scary as Charles seems to think, but in some ways MORE disturbing and dangerous.

"Choose a White Europe." Well of course. The EU elites seek to replace the population of Europe with that of North Africa and Africa (seeking compliant peasants who don't present competitive threats in upward mobility and act as "electoral shock troops") and systematically try to destroy existing cultures and customs. [Swedish Feminists say they want to "eradicate all White men." And "rape gangs" target Swedish girls with blonde hair, to the point that anti-Rape belts (requiring two hands) and girls dying their hair black and wearing Muslim clothes is common in Sweden.]

Example: a white 14 year old girl in a British school is arrested (no, not making this up) for being "racist" for refusing to participate in a "group project" with Pakistani girls who did not speak English. The peoples of England have extraordinary racial homogeneity and presence-in-place. About 75% of Englishmen trace their ancestry back to the Neolithic inhabitants, with higher numbers for Welshman, Scots, and Irish. You'll find similar figures for Germans, Dutch, and even Frenchmen, etc. No one would turn a hair if the people of say, Mexico were to decide they would retain their cultural and racial makeup as a nation. Or the Vietnamese. That is their right as a people. To remain one.

The "racist" charge does not hold water because to oppose the extermination of European peoples and their culture is to be "racist." The word has been debased beyond meaning.

Secondly, the US is radically different in that populist pressures HAVE to be served: witness the Amnesty/Open Borders defeat by the people upon the elite. In the EU, there is no outlet for populism save extremists BECAUSE the control by elites over every outlet: media, politics, culture, business, etc. is so overwhelming. Frenchmen wish France to remain French, Britons for Britain to remain British, and Germans for Germany to remain German. This is natural and inevitable, but their only choice is for their peoples, culture, history, achievement, and everything else to disappear by connivance with a trans-national elite and immigrants from elsewhere, or choose the extremists.

People will do whatever they have to in order to survive. Particularly now that the welfare money ran out and it's a raw struggle between immigrants and natives for money to survive.

Finally Charles is flat-out uniformed and wrong about the particulars of Belgium (and would do well to read Belien's Throne in Brussels). VB exists because legitimate issues of resource allocation are not addressed in an artificial nation made up of mutually antagonistic peoples: Dutch and French speakers. Charles is also flat out, unabashedly wrong about the dangers.

Which is not VB. Rather the refusal of Europeans to address legitimate populism which led to uncontrolled crony-elitism and thus groups like VB. To avoid this in the US which already shows signs of it both PC-crony elitism must be ruthlessly fought and populism in legitimate broad-based Patriotic forms preserved. Sorry Charles you are just flat-out wrong on this one.

I'm sympathetic to many of your points, but allying the broader anti-Islamist agenda with a 'White Power' fringe gives ammunition to the very liberal elites you decry to tar the entire movement as racist.

re: #223 Jim Rockford

Oh, go piss up a rope.

re: #232 ZionistYoungster

I was assuming the euronazis will kick butt in the near future.

re: #196 Charles

Should he be on a list of people who cannot enter the U.S.?

re: #223 Jim Rockford

That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. Many European LGF readers disagree very strongly with what you wrote, and some of them are well-known writers (who asked me not to identify them, sorry).

re: #221 Maine's Michael

re: #211 The Albatross

What I meant was that if the anti-islamist elements ally with racists, they will lose ever increasing portions of the American population.

We will then have to welcome our new muslim overlords.

Ultimately, but it is ultimately a propaganda war, and the masses are still being spoon fed pap. How many are active online to educate? Our nation alone, we're looking at being a voice that rings true amid the blather and commercials in a society of over 300 million. A hard row to hoe.

re: #209 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

The story of the Warsaw uprising is ugly, and it's part of the ugly relationship between Russia and Poland that goes centuries back. Still, it's an example of how the USSR's victory was so much better than its defeat.

re: #222 neocon hippie

Reposted from the dead thread:

Would the least objectionable solution be a series of military coups? How strong are the militaries in the European countries in question? Does there exist a group of Pinochets that might be able to defeat both Islamists and neo-Nazis, restore order, and then step aside once the threats are contained?

I grilled Fjordman for an answer to that question the other day. Yeah, I know, I know, but whatever his failings, he know the Euro scene better than most of us. He thinks that yes, there could be a military coup in Europe. If the military of even one country with a credible force (i.e. England) turned their guns, we could have a helluva civil war. I think some of the willingness to accept skinheads into the A-J is a resignation that the shooting war is not far off and soldiers will be needed shooting away from you, not at you, whatever their motives. It's an ugly scene, no doubt.

I'll have to go with the Paul Belien at Brussels Journal on this one, despite all the 20-second YouTube clips.

It's very hard, if not impossible, for a foreigner to understand the politics of a country whose language he doesn't speak and whose culture he is not familiar with.

This debate sort of reminds me of how Americans who try to understand Israeli politics through reading Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post inevitably end up with ideas about what the different parties in Israel represent which are completely disconnected with reality.

re: #223 Jim Rockford

Well Jim, you can just take your chances with Charles on a lot of that stuff. I want to comment on one point:

the refusal of Europeans to address legitimate populism

Populism, ha, the European Union is in large part antidemocratic, elitist, top-down Roman command-style, and that passes for mainstream.

As it might here if Hildabeast slouches into office.

re: #238 Maine's Michael

I thought so, but I couldn't let the beer part slip by. Oktoberfest and all that, ya know... ;-)

re: #63 Macker

Pamela poked a hole in her boat weeks ago.

re: #225 Ed mahmoud abu al Kahoul

No, I was a senior shift supervisor at a 3 unit commercial nuc plant. The USN experience was on a Sub Tender that had the first Nuclear Squadron.

re: #131 MiB

Its not all that difficult to see that the alternatives, given the culture of Europe, is either Islamization or a return of the "hard right" regimes of the past.

I like the guys who just want to be let alone, but the overall culture in Europe sees government as a force to be wielded by the body politic to get special favors and protect "their" interests - for the greater good, of course.

It is here (in the US), too, to a great extent - but not nearly as much as over there. Given that premise, the only two morally consistent arguments arise either from the extreme xenophobic/racist right or the multiculturalist left.

Either way, Europe loses. And it won't be very pretty, no matter which side wins.

Just stay out of Europe's business and let them immolate themselves on one alter or the other.

Unfortunately, the US stays out of their business at their peril, as evidenced by the graves at Normandy and Arlington Cemetery.

#224 Shemesh

I disagree - this is an opportunity: an opportunity to push the racists back to the political fringe where they belong.

Read this: [Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

Even Robert Spencer doesn't get it yet. As evidenced above, the IFAW is already being associated with racists in the university press, because they invited one to speak. This is how it works. And pretty soon all of the Anti-Jihad will be associated in the minds of regular people who read the newspapers or watch TV news. Before, it was just lunatic blogs like DKos and DU that threw the "racist" charge at everything, and who gives a crap. But now it can be charged in the press, because these dumbshits invited a bona fide scumbag.

#233 MM

Charles doesn't have to cherry pick to find the connenctions these creeps h ave to Fascism.

Which fascism? Islamo? National? Trans-national? I don't doubt the connections, but I think the legitmate concerns of most europeans citizens are no way attached to the fringe groups. Who is actually on the ground offerring an alternative? We've seen this history before... who is going to step up?

Those holding to PC principles of multiculturalism are part of the problem. Harvard Prof Robert Putnam (Bowling Alone) shows ethnic/racial diversity decreases trust in EVERY institution among EVERY group. In fact he sat on his research because it ran counter to PC dogma for years before finally releasing it.

LA is the most diverse city in America and the one with the least amount of public participation. Places like Green Bay WI and Nebraska which are ethnically, culturally, and racially the same have the highest levels of public participation, support for institutions, and civic life. People surrounded by like people have higher and larger trust networks and are engaged in public life. People surrounded by people unlike them hunker down.

To the degree that the Dem Party has said "So Long White Boy" (title of one article by a Dem Strategist in Slate.com) the coalition of politics is clear: MORE power/goodies/money for the Elite-Black-Latino-Feminist Dem coalition and LESS for everyone else particularly straight white men. Otherwise known as the "Reagan Democrat" Union Voter.

There is no reason why the masses of illegal aliens from Mexico and other places, cannot be self-deported through attrition enforcement. Certainly if we don't we guarantee racial-ethnic-cultural strife over fights for scarce resources. More labor, particularly ethnic-kin-locality (villages in Mexico) based that crowds out native labor in occupations such as carpentry and plumbing is a guarantee of strife in a non-rapidly expanding economy. Which is a bang-dead certain in the era of expensive energy.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to preserve the Anglo-African culture and composition of America. Anymore than Mexicans are entitled to preserve their cultural and ethnic component and not become flooded with say, Guatemalans or Peruvians.

re: #244 AW

That column is BS with a blatant misrepresentation of Charles linked in it.

My two cents: No Alliance with neo-Nazis. NONE!

I dont get it. Everybody knows that Vlaams Belang is the same as Vlams Blok.
Charles you are missing the point - Vlaams Blok was BANNED, for merely having a political viewpoint. Don';t you understand what is going on in Belgium right now? There is an enormous resurgence in Flemish nationalism - to such an extent that Belgium could well split in two.

Secondly, I agree with the comment above about letting in skinheads into Anti-Jihad ranks - after the attack on SIOE activitists with iron bars and knives - one of whom was a 74 year old woman - then can you not blame them for seriously considering some hired "muscle" as protection.
Because the European police sure as hell wont protect them.

The anti-jihad situation in Europe is waaaay different to that in the states. Please do try to understand the situation first before making judgement.

(also bear in mind that most Europeans are unarmed thanks to anti-gun laws... i'd like to have my own gun, but i can't. if some skinheads offered to protect my anti-jihad meeting , i'd be a fool to refuse them.)