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The Mask Comes Off at Brussels Journal

Fri, Nov 2, 2007 at 2:10:32 pm PDT

The mask is really coming off at Brussels Journal, in a disgusting attack on Bruce Bawer, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and myself: Is This What It Is All About?

(Before clicking through, be aware that Belien has posted a deliberately offensive photograph of bondage gear-wearing homosexual men kissing, to illustrate his post.)

In another comment, Belien lashes out at me again, calling me a “Stalinist” and a “Nazi” (simultaneously! that’s a neat trick), and attacking LGF readers as well.

Exceptional measure
Submitted by Paul Belien on Fri, 2007-11-02 12:49.

Yesterday evening we removed two comments from Amsterdamsky in which he spoke of “Zionists on the Israeli payroll” with regard to Little Green Footballs. We consider it an insult to Zionists to compared them to the LGF people. We have also blocked Amsterdamsky’s account so that he can no longer post comments here, but this can be reversed.

I know that our readers know that we do not agree with every comment posted here. Unfortunately, the so-called “proponents of free speech” at LGF do not. They think that every opinion voiced in the comments is also ours and they attack us for it. Someone told me the other day that Charles Johnson used to be a liberal (or a “leftist” as Europeans would say) before he became a conservative. Apparently, the man still adheres to the Stalinist (or Nazi) methods of the past. One of these Stalinist (or Nazi) principles is the principle of guilt by association.

Belien is complaining about having comments at his site attributed to him—which, of course, I did not do. I clearly identified the comments I quoted in this post as reader comments and attributed them to the readers who posted them, not to Belien.

So let’s look at Belien’s writing. Here’s an article by Paul Belien himself, published at the hard-core (some say extremist) anti-immigrant web site Vdare.com: VDARE.com: Anti-Immigration Party Banned In Belgium, by Paul Belien.

And Belien’s article was linked with approval at the Holocaust-denying Institute for Historical Review, on a page full of other bizarre and antisemitic articles.

Nice company Paul Belien runs with.

Previous LGF posts on the Vlaams Belang and Sweden Democrats:
Organizing to Resist the Islamization of Europe
When Friends Attack
About Vlaams Belang and Sweden Democrats
Sweden Democrats Document Dump
Islam in Europe: ‘This Isn’t Going to Be Pretty’
Videos: Vlaams Belang and Vlaams Blok
Vlaams Belang Leader Interviewed
Vlaams Belang and the US White Supremacist Cesspool
Wednesday Night Link Depot
’Repugnant?’ Yes, That’s What I Wrote
Now is DeWinter of Our Discontent

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861 comments

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1 newsjunkie_ky  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:15:29pm

LGF people, I'm so proud to be one.

2 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:16:40pm

It's satire!

/

3 SusanL  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:16:45pm

re: #1 newsjunkie_ky

LGF people, I'm so proud to be one.

ME TOO!

If those type of people don't like us, well that is not a bad thing. Keep up the good work Charles.

Susan

4 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:16:51pm
5 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:18:06pm

Not one word about any of this..from Atlas.

6 MacGregor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:18:32pm

We disagree with nazis and stalinists in almost every post while these people align themselves with socialist agendas openly. The chutzpah!

7 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:18:59pm

re: #4 buzzsawmonkey

Belien is slamming the concept of "guilt by association."

It is true that one may not be entirely in sympathy with those with whom one associates--but the odds are against one being entirely not in sympathy with them.

And it remains true that those who lie down with dogs, arise with fleas--whether that is "guilt by association" or not.

If there were only one or two of the "guilt by association" connections, it might be a valid criticism. But there are dozens, if not hundreds, of these connections.

8 Le_Patriot  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:19:21pm

"with regard to Little Green Footballs. We consider it an insult to Zionists to compared them to the LGF people"

*several lizards read link*
*GAZE*
*this lizard knocks all bottles and glasses off the top of bar*
*breaks a bottle on edge of bar, and exposes sharp bottle edge to an apparently seething Paul Belian, who's blog post does not even employ proper grammar*

*pours another beer*

*finally shakes head, and declares -
"all your bad grammar are belong to you, as well as your misconceptions about the real world"*

9 opnion  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:19:52pm

Whats the saying? "You are judged by your enemies as well as you friends" LGF is on solid ground

10 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:20:06pm

The thread I posted this in has a conversation going on that was pretty enlightening about the brussels journal.

11 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:20:13pm

re: #4 buzzsawmonkey

The post was what that talk is attracting.
Not guilt by association.

12 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:20:58pm

re: #5 storagemanager

Not one word about any of this..from Atlas.

Of course not.

13 Le_Patriot  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:21:14pm

re: #8 Le_Patriot
who's
BUSTED!
PIMF

14 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:21:56pm

Now they don't like gays either? White, straight, Christian. Got it.

You know, there seems to be a nostalgia in them for the 'old Europe'. But I don't think the old Europe of their imaginative memories ever really existed.

15 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:22:05pm

re: #5 storagemanager

When last I looked? Not a word.

/Shocka!

16 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:22:32pm
17 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:22:59pm

re: #5 storagemanager

What can she say?
She knew before she went.
She posted about who that group was months ago.
Maybe she is hoping to slip under the radar.

18 Peacekeeper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:23:33pm

The level of vitriol is revealing. He must be right out of his helmet.

19 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:24:03pm

"to compared them to Zionists"?

PIYF!

20 Artki  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:24:20pm

Gee, it's like seeing the pages of "America Alone" come to life.

21 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:24:20pm

If you search Vdare for "Belien" you'll notice he still contributes to the site. This is not a past association but an ongoing relationship.

22 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:24:45pm
23 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:24:51pm

re: #1 newsjunkie_ky

LGF people, I'm so proud to be one.

As am I. Anti-jihadi, anti-socialist, anti-fascist, anti-nazi. I am here becuase I want to protect individual liberty and freedom for all, regardless of race or ethnicity.

24 marwan's daughter  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:25:13pm

re: #14 wahabicorridor

Now they don't like gays either? White, straight, Christian. Got it.

You know, there seems to be a nostalgia in them for the 'old Europe'. But I don't think the old Europe of their imaginative memories ever really existed.

No it didn't. In fact, the old Europe was worse than they think. Maybe that's what they want, eh? To have a savior in the vein of you-know-who (I'm pulling a Godwin here).

25 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:25:19pm

What a disappointment.

I used to read Brussels Journal fairly regularly and even after this rift began between LGF and BJ I assumed that Belien would, at the very least, remain a gentleman and argue his side with some degree of class.

I guess I was wrong.

What a shame.

26 Alouette  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:25:34pm

There are 10 measures of hate in the world.

9 of these are HATE against the truth.

27 marwan's daughter  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:25:45pm

re: #20 Artki

I better get that book.

28 gop_patriot  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:26:15pm

I still can't understand why that picture of the two men kissing was posted. If you don't agree with them, you're for completely unrestricted sex in the streets? For gay people? What a bizarre point to try and make from the quotes they selected.

29 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:26:32pm

re: #22 buzzsawmonkey

How come nobody quotes Richard Marx?

/obscure 80's reference.

30 the_flying_pig  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:26:37pm

Simply put, Paul Belien is blowing this affair with Charles and LGF way out of proportions.

Hello, Paul? Stop digging too far, too deep, you'll hit China!

31 gop_patriot  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:27:18pm

re: #29 hous bin pharteen

re: #22 buzzsawmonkey

How come nobody quotes Richard Marx?

/obscure 80's reference.

Damn. I've spent 20 years trying to forget him, thanks alot.

/smarty pants mode off ;)

32 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:27:19pm

re: #4 buzzsawmonkey

Belien is slamming the concept of "guilt by association."

Well, Belien should look very closely in a mirror regarding "guilt by association". He has waded into this mudpit up to his nose.

Remember: Before slinging mud, make sure you are not in the mudpit to begin with.

33 PETN Sandwich  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:27:24pm
So let’s look at Belien’s writing. Here’s an article by Paul Belien himself, published at the hard-core (some say extremist) white nationalist anti-immigrant web site Vdare.com: VDARE.com: Anti-Immigration Party Banned In Belgium, by Paul Belien.

Somebody better tell Michelle Malkin about this!

Wait, she already knows she's a hard-core white nationalist.

/sarc

34 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:28:09pm

re: #29 hous bin pharteen

re: #22 buzzsawmonkey

How come nobody quotes Richard Marx?

/obscure 80's reference.

I'll be right here waiting for someone to do so.

35 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:28:11pm

(Reposted from yesterday)

To paraphrase Dr. Henry Jones in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade:

"Goose-stepping morons like yourself should try reading blogs instead of burning them!"

36 Yank in the EU  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:28:19pm

The Brussels Journal, and Belien, demonstrate a thorough lack of class with this post.

Plus, as I said in the other thread, Paul Belien, I wonder if you would repeat that insult to my face?

37 the_flying_pig  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:28:27pm

re: #28 gop_patriot

I still can't understand why that picture of the two men kissing was posted. If you don't agree with them, you're for completely unrestricted sex in the streets? For gay people? What a bizarre point to try and make from the quotes they selected.

I think Paul was remarking about the unbounded madness of "secular hedonism" in Europe.

38 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:28:43pm
39 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:29:31pm

re: #24 marwan's daughter

re: #14 wahabicorridor


Now they don't like gays either? White, straight, Christian. Got it.

You know, there seems to be a nostalgia in them for the 'old Europe'. But I don't think the old Europe of their imaginative memories ever really existed.


No it didn't. In fact, the old Europe was worse than they think. Maybe that's what they want, eh? To have a savior in the vein of you-know-who (I'm pulling a Godwin here).

Godwin's Law does not apply when the topic actually is about people in the vein of you-know-who.

40 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:29:51pm

This is just too shocking...people I use to respect and read...it's all just so damn sad....at the fork in the road...they went the wrong way.

41 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:30:08pm

re: #38 buzzsawmonkey

I've never, to my knowledge, heard of Richard Marx.

He's better know as Dicko Marx, the forgotten Marx brother.

42 shiplord kirel  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:30:39pm

re: #37 the_flying_pig

re: #28 gop_patriot


I still can't understand why that picture of the two men kissing was posted. If you don't agree with them, you're for completely unrestricted sex in the streets? For gay people? What a bizarre point to try and make from the quotes they selected.

I think Paul was remarking about the unbounded madness of "secular hedonism" in Europe.

Well, the Mohammedans could put a stop to that. It's getting harder and harder to see what Paul's problem is.

43 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:30:51pm

"While Europe Slept"

WTH is Europe still asleep?

44 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:31:34pm

re: #30 the_flying_pig

I believe you are refering to this rule of life:

When you have found yourself in a hole, the first thing you should do is to stop digging.

45 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:32:24pm

re: #33 PETN Sandwich

I removed the 'white nationalist' phrase -- although the site clearly has ties to people in the WN 'movement', that seems like too broad of a statement. Notice the names in their 'Editorial Collective'.

46 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:33:39pm

re: #28 gop_patriot

I still can't understand why that picture of the two men kissing was posted. If you don't agree with them, you're for completely unrestricted sex in the streets? For gay people? What a bizarre point to try and make from the quotes they selected.


The rationale behind posting the photo along with Bawer's post at LGF is that Bruce Bawer is openly homosexual. He moved to Europe, where he thought he would encounter a more tolerant attitude. Got smacked upside the head, he did.

So what Belien is implying is that Bawer and Charles are like - you know - 'really friendly' and that's what's behind Bawer's support for Charles.

47 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:34:06pm

Zukerlilly found a good Bart Debie article.....
We need more Robocops
(autotranslated from German)
Which sheds a little more light on his exploits.
He also has a graphic up on his site

Notice the graphic of the policeman with gun drawn....

I'll Kick Your Ass and Get Away With It

48 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:34:31pm
49 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:35:24pm

re: #46 wahabicorridor

re: #28 gop_patriot

I still can't understand why that picture of the two men kissing was posted. If you don't agree with them, you're for completely unrestricted sex in the streets? For gay people? What a bizarre point to try and make from the quotes they selected.

The rationale behind posting the photo along with Bawer's post at LGF is that Bruce Bawer is openly homosexual. He moved to Europe, where he thought he would encounter a more tolerant attitude. Got smacked upside the head, he did.

So what Belien is implying is that Bawer and Charles are like - you know - 'really friendly' and that's what's behind Bawer's support for Charles.

Yes, that's the point of it. It's an incredibly creepy thing to do.

50 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:36:31pm
51 the_flying_pig  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:36:38pm

re: #44 Honorary Yooper

re: #30 the_flying_pig

I believe you are refering to this rule of life:

When you have found yourself in a hole, the first thing you should do is to stop digging.

Well, Paul has been busily digging himself a big hole since Charles raised a stink about the whole Vlaam Belang-Neo-nazi connections.

52 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:36:49pm

re: #46 wahabicorridor

It's also a slam at what Belien calls "Secular Hedonism" (aka Secular Humanism) which he sees as an enemy equal to Muslims.

53 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:36:51pm

re: #48 jeppo

This whole brouhaha reminds me of Henry Kissinger's old adage about why fights within academia are so vicious--because the stakes are so small.

You think this is a small issue?

54 Racer X  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:38:22pm

re: #48 jeppo

This whole brouhaha reminds me of Henry Kissinger's old adage about why fights within academia are so vicious--because the stakes are so small.

I disagree. The stakes are extremely high. If Islam is allowed to continue it's march across the globe we are all f*cked. Who we align with in the fight against Islam will determine who joins which side.

55 Peacekeeper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:38:22pm

re: #49 Charles

It's an incredibly creepy thing to do.
Creepy is using restraint.

56 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:39:00pm

re: #51 the_flying_pig


If I may, respectfully fix a word:

Well, Paul has been busily digging himself a big hole since Charles raised a stink question about the whole Vlaam Belang-Neo-nazi connections.

57 Peacekeeper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:39:03pm

PMF
Describing it as "Creepy" is using restraint.

58 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:39:04pm

The mask came off...you lose...........

HONOLULU (AP) - Television bounty hunter Duane "Dog" Chapman's show has been pulled from the air indefinitely by A&E, two days after a private phone conversation in which the reality star used a racial slur repeatedly was posted online.
"In evaluating the circumstances of the last few days, A&E has decided to take `Dog The Bounty Hunter' off the network's schedule for the foreseeable future," the network said in a statement Friday. "We hope that Mr. Chapman continues the healing process that he has begun."

A&E officials said the series, one of the network's top-rated programs, has not been canceled

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

59 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:39:11pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

re: #46 wahabicorridor

It's also a slam at what Belien calls "Secular Hedonism" (aka Secular Humanism) which he sees as an enemy equal to Muslims.


Agreed. Unfortunately for THAT argument, I know a few deeply religious homosexuals. One of them is a Catholic priest.

60 gop_patriot  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:39:29pm

re: #49 Charles

re: #46 wahabicorridor

re: #28 gop_patriot
I still can't understand why that picture of the two men kissing was posted. If you don't agree with them, you're for completely unrestricted sex in the streets? For gay people? What a bizarre point to try and make from the quotes they selected.

The rationale behind posting the photo along with Bawer's post at LGF is that Bruce Bawer is openly homosexual. He moved to Europe, where he thought he would encounter a more tolerant attitude. Got smacked upside the head, he did.So what Belien is implying is that Bawer and Charles are like - you know - 'really friendly' and that's what's behind Bawer's support for Charles.
Yes, that's the point of it. It's an incredibly creepy thing to do.

Oh. Yikes. Sorry, but my brain just didn't go there. I can't imagine someone (Belien) even coming up with that thought, based on anything that either Bawer or C. said at any time. Creepy is a bit of an understatement!

61 SpringheelJack  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:39:51pm

Internet Flame Wars rarely accomplish anything useful.

62 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:40:00pm

re: #48 jeppo


because the stakes are so small.

ignorant statement given history of these ties.

63 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:40:10pm

re: #48 jeppo

This whole brouhaha reminds me of Henry Kissinger's old adage about why fights within academia are so vicious--because the stakes are so small.

Small!?! Small!?! Are you calling the difference between us and Holocaust deniers small!?! Are you calling the difference between us and those Nazi-wannabes small!?! Sir, you need to really take a hard look at the differences between us and them.

64 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:40:47pm

Belien can kiss my shiny metal ass.

65 usmc1968  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:41:23pm

re: #30 the_flying_pig

What if you still have 20 people digging?

66 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:41:32pm

re: #49 Charles

Not to mention childish,if grade school taunts are are his idea of exchange of ideas,well,...The guy doesn't sound too bright.

67 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:42:11pm
68 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:42:12pm

Does Deutschland Uber Alles play in the background on his site now?

69 newsjunkie_ky  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:42:15pm

Richard Marx Should've know better.

70 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:42:15pm

re: #63 Honorary Yooper

re: #48 jeppo

This whole brouhaha reminds me of Henry Kissinger's old adage about why fights within academia are so vicious--because the stakes are so small.
Small!?! Small!?! Are you calling the difference between us and Holocaust deniers small!?! Are you calling the difference between us and those Nazi-wannabes small!?! Sir, you need to really take a hard look at the differences between us and them.

Jeppo is on Paul Belien's and the Vlaams Belang's side. He's been posting these kinds of comments ever since the topic came up, and yesterday tried to blatantly misrespresent Bruce Bawer's comments as an attack on Christians, hoping to split LGF readers on those lines.

71 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:42:34pm

That's it, the hornets are really swarming now.

Well, one hornet is swarming, and he has no stinger, but he's really angry!

Any lizards out there have some Raid?

72 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:43:02pm

re: #49 Charles

Once upon a time, if someone did that (made false claims about homosexuality), it'd be reason for filing a defamation law suit...(not any more, I guess).

hmmm...on another topic -- I now have a number of people (writers for newspapers, etc.) that I now wonder about...Ironic that the Counter Jihad Conference really has acted as a "shibboleth" -- sorting out the W N (Volkish) folk from the others...(wonder if that too -- the shibboleh bit -- was planned, intentional?)

73 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:43:07pm

So now we're Stalinazis? How special.

74 Lantana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:43:14pm

I have been a LGF reader and Charles fan for three years. I also read BJ.

This site has always stayed focused on the cause of fighting islamofacism, terrorism and the people who support it. LGF has never tolerated racist bile or stooped to align itself with fellow anti-jihadis that have questionable racial beliefs. LGF and Charles have been stellar sources of information and the integrity of this site has never been compromised.

That issues have been raised about the association of some anti-islamist groups and blogs and their connection to racial supremacist/anti-jewish sentiments or members are valid concerns. That Charles makes a clear distinction about what he thinks of these types of people and thoughts should not create a war in the anti-islamisation or anti-jihad movement. Charles should not be vilified for expressing his opinions on people/groups he perceives to be racist or anti-semitic and his fear that they hurt the overall fight against islamofacism.

The commentors here are all good & fine too.

75 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:43:45pm

re: #71 NoSpam

That's it, the hornets are really swarming now.

Well, one hornet is swarming, and he has no stinger, but he's really angry!

Any lizards out there have some Raid?

Momma, get Real Kill!

76 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:43:53pm
77 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:43:56pm

re: #64 Ward Cleaver

Belien can kiss my shiny metal ass.

Hey that should be my line!
(ck. the back end of the nic.)

78 usmc1968  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:44:17pm

58 storagemanager

Speech police again!

79 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:44:41pm

re: #74 Lantana

How ironic that the initials of his site are BJ.

/not that there's anything wrong with that...

80 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:45:42pm

Franz Leibkind comes to mind here...

Youtube Video

Does this guy collect pigeons?

81 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:46:08pm

re: #78 usmc1968

58 storagemanager

Speech police again!

What Dog said was vile...he should be fired.

82 Izzy Dunne  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:46:18pm

you cannot convince Mr Johnson to mellow down, because he is not of the type willing to compromise on anything.


Not that there's anything WRONG with that....

83 Dianna  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:46:19pm

Goodnight.

I hope this all looks better in the morning.

I'm gonna go smoke and drink with my Secular Hedonist boss, and then I shall go home and fool around with my very Baptist boyfriend.

Then I shall pour a libation in gratitude to my own gods, and let the rest of you figure out how the hell I ended up a conservative.

84 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:46:21pm

re: #76 jeppo

Shaddap!

/you're the new nodrog

85 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:46:30pm

re: #70 Charles

re: #63 Honorary Yooper


re: #48 jeppo
This whole brouhaha reminds me of Henry Kissinger's old adage about why fights within academia are so vicious--because the stakes are so small.

Small!?! Small!?! Are you calling the difference between us and Holocaust deniers small!?! Are you calling the difference between us and those Nazi-wannabes small!?! Sir, you need to really take a hard look at the differences between us and them.

Jeppo is on Paul Belien's and the Vlaams Belang's side. He's been posting these kinds of comments ever since the topic came up, and yesterday tried to blatantly misrespresent Bruce Bawer's comments.

Yeah, I did notice, but I can't let that comment of his pass. "jeppo" is rather full of manure, IMHO. It's folks like "jeppo" who deliberately misrepresent the facts that really piss me off. I seriously dislike liars, and "jeppo" is a serious liar.

86 the_flying_pig  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:46:43pm

re: #65 usmc1968

re: #30 the_flying_pig

What if you still have 20 people digging?

Hah! Helping hands while singing Horst Wessel.

87 vapig  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:46:50pm
#73 Ward Cleaver 11/02/07 2:43:07 pm reply quote report 0

So now we're Stalinazis? How special.

Sounds redundant

88 usmc1968  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:47:16pm

re: #81 storagemanager
What did he say?

89 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:47:30pm

re: #81 storagemanager

re: #78 usmc1968


58 storagemanager

Speech police again!


What Dog said was vile...he should be fired.

It was funny hearing Guillermo reading Dog's apology on Jimmy Kimmel last night.

90 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:47:53pm

re: #84 Ward Cleaver

re: #76 jeppo

Shaddap!

/you're the new nodrog

So LGF is now "Proud Home of The Oppej?"

91 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:48:04pm

re: #84 Ward Cleaver

re: #76 jeppo

Shaddap!

/you're the new nodrog

Oppej?

92 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:48:23pm

re: #76 jeppo

And the fact remains that the Cordon Sanitaire also exists. thus, the Party you support will never be allowed to form any coalition with main stream parties.

93 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:48:43pm

re: #88 usmc1968

re: #81 storagemanager
What did he say?

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

94 TheUnrepentantGeek  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:48:43pm

Well, as long as Belien is staying so classy in his discourse.

That's ... just really uncalled for.

95 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:48:47pm

re: #90 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

BDVM, GMTA. LOL! :-D

96 The Other Les  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:48:52pm

re: #87 vapig

#73 Ward Cleaver 11/02/07 2:43:07 pm reply quote report 0 So now we're Stalinazis? How special.

Sounds redundant

I save my Nazi salutes for Rocky Horror night.

97 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:49:22pm

re: #88 usmc1968

re: #81 storagemanager
What did he say?

He called his daughter's boyfriend a n****r, said he uses the word sometimes, and didn't want to be embarrassed over it.

98 DistantThunder  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:49:32pm

Frontline. Trench warfare. Incoming!

We're behind you Charles.

99 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:49:47pm

re: #91 Honorary Yooper

re: #84 Ward Cleaver


re: #76 jeppo

Shaddap!

/you're the new nodrog


Oppej?

Yeah, that's it!

100 segesta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:50:05pm

Just stay focused, Charles. Don't let this Vlaams Belang (sp?) issue become to LGF what waterboarding has become to Andrew Sullivan.

101 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:50:09pm
102 Render  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:50:13pm

Duke and his minions have spent years trying to obtain mainstream acceptability and legitimacy, both in the US and in Europe.

We just exposed the crown jewel (VB) of his European efforts for what it is. DeWinter has been carefully groomed since he was a teenager for this leadership role.

Of course they're pissed. When they're done with the insults, they will then turn to threats.

M.O.,
R

103 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:50:18pm

re: #96 The Other Les

re: #87 vapig


#73 Ward Cleaver 11/02/07 2:43:07 pm reply quote report 0 So now we're Stalinazis? How special.

Sounds redundant

I save my Nazi salutes for Rocky Horror night.

Do you take toast, too?

104 neocon hippie  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:51:19pm

There are posters here who are of faith who believe that what Belien has called "secular hedonism" but more commonly known as "secular humanism" is, if not an equal enemy as Islamofascism, deeply problematic for the health of our society, including our ability to fight the Islamofascists. I'd be very curious to hear from such folks as to what they think of Belien's view and how it mirrors or differs from their own.

105 Occasional Reader  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:51:20pm

re: #72 J.S.

Once upon a time, if someone did that (made false claims about homosexuality), it'd be reason for filing a defamation law suit...(not any more, I guess).

Actually if I'm not mistaken, it's still per se libel under the law of New York State. (Don't know about any of the others... that's where I did my bar, so that's the state whose wackier laws I know)

106 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:51:28pm

Somebody's not long for this world.

/er, blog

107 the_flying_pig  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:51:33pm

People should not forget about the Muslim-Nazi connections in the past.

It would seem that the Neo-Nazis are not aware of that in spite of opposing the Islamist jihadists in Europe and elsewhere. They're on the same team!

108 zombie  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:52:46pm

Totally, OT, but there's nowhere else to post it:

New zombietime report just unveiled:

San Francisco Anti-War Rally, October 27, 2007

When you want to take a break from Euro-politics, you're really gonna like this one.

109 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:53:14pm
110 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:53:15pm

One of the oddest things. Don't know if any of you read the BJ thread 'Schroedinger's Cat....". Toward the very end, the writer trots out '80 years of scientific studies showing mean differences across racial groups' - paraphrased as well as memory permits. Basically, whites are the smart ones, the rest are intellectually inferior.

I was going to write a post there asking of anyone thought Belgians born w/Down's syndrom should be excluded from citizenship - even residency perhaps.

To allocate various levels of human dignity according to some social classification ultimately demeans your own. And Belien has just proved it.

111 nolocon  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:53:55pm

re: #87 vapig

#73 Ward Cleaver 11/02/07 2:43:07 pm reply quote report 0
So now we're Stalinazis? How special.

Sounds redundant

Stalinazi = the political cousin of a HeteroLesbian.

112 The Other Les  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:54:10pm

re: #103 Ward Cleaver

re: #96 The Other Les

re: #87 vapig


#73 Ward Cleaver 11/02/07 2:43:07 pm reply quote report 0 So now we're Stalinazis? How special.


Sounds redundant


I save my Nazi salutes for Rocky Horror night.

Do you take toast, too?

The local theater does not allow toast.

113 Peacekeeper  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:54:34pm

Chitty Chitty Vlaams Belang

114 zuckerlilly  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:54:35pm

re: #73 Ward Cleaver

So now we're Stalinazis? How special.

rofl

115 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:54:42pm

re: #104 neocon hippie

There are posters here who are of faith who believe that what Belien has called "secular hedonism" but more commonly known as "secular humanism" is, if not an equal enemy as Islamofascism, deeply problematic for the health of our society, including our ability to fight the Islamofascists. I'd be very curious to hear from such folks as to what they think of Belien's view and how it mirrors or differs from their own.

The thing that the Europeans can't get around is the practically nonexistent birth rate among them. The muslims will swamp them with their sheer numbers, and triumph just based on demographics. No amount of speeches and protests can overcome that.

If the Europeans want to survive, and retain their culture, they've got to start making new Europeans.

116 Occasional Reader  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:54:53pm

I just stomped Brussels Journal out of bookmarks. That felt good, in a bondage gear sort of way.

117 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:55:13pm

re: #89 Ward Cleaver

I love Guillermo!

I am gonna have to look that one up and watch it!

118 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:55:31pm

re: #112 The Other Les

re: #103 Ward Cleaver


re: #96 The Other Les

re: #87 vapig


#73 Ward Cleaver 11/02/07 2:43:07 pm reply quote report 0 So now we're Stalinazis? How special.

Sounds redundant

I save my Nazi salutes for Rocky Horror night.

Do you take toast, too?

The local theater does not allow toast.

Oh, bummer. It's not fun if you can't throw toast at the screen.

119 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:56:18pm
120 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:56:20pm

re: #117 hous bin pharteen

re: #89 Ward Cleaver

I love Guillermo!

I am gonna have to look that one up and watch it!

He was wearing sunglasses and long feathered earrings, too.

121 Occasional Reader  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:56:36pm
Rocky Horror night

"EFF!"

You see...

"KAY!"

122 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:56:41pm

I read the article by Paul Belien that you linked to Charles and I cannot see anything racist in the article, in fact I find it well written, well linked and informative on the fight for survival for freedom in Belgium. If others have linked to the article for their purposes, I am sure that has been done to you numerous times.

What is this all about? You have been writing about this for several days. Are we demanding a purity from the Belgians in fighting Islamo-facism that we will never achieve here either? Why are we (you) seeming so ready to label a major political movement racist that is probably the only and last hope for the Belgians? Can you do a thumbnail sketch of all of this, sort of summarize the players, the dangers you see, and maybe some alternatives, or what you would hope to see in their fight for freedom?

123 nolocon  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:57:37pm

re: #107 the_flying_pig

People should not forget about the Muslim-Nazi connections in the past.
It would seem that the Neo-Nazis are not aware of that in spite of opposing the Islamist jihadists in Europe and elsewhere. They're on the same team!

Fascists killed Jews.
Muslims allied with Fascists.
Stalinists armed Muslims against Jews.

ergo ... a Stalinazi is DOUBLE against Jews.

124 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:57:38pm

re: #110 wahabicorridor

One of the oddest things. Don't know if any of you read the BJ thread 'Schroedinger's Cat....". Toward the very end, the writer trots out '80 years of scientific studies showing mean differences across racial groups' - paraphrased as well as memory permits. Basically, whites are the smart ones, the rest are intellectually inferior.

I was going to write a post there asking of anyone thought Belgians born w/Down's syndrom should be excluded from citizenship - even residency perhaps.

To allocate various levels of human dignity according to some social classification ultimately demeans your own. And Belien has just proved it.

That post also expresses admiration for the British National Party.

125 Piglet-U93  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:57:49pm

re: #35 rappmandu

(Reposted from yesterday)

To paraphrase Dr. Henry Jones in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade:

"Goose-stepping morons like yourself should try reading blogs instead of burningburying them!"

An information technological corrrection.

126 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:57:53pm
128 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:58:57pm

Everything I needed to know about bj and belien I learned the other night when Charles linked to an article where they ripped Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Why did they rip Ayaan? Because she wouldn't tolerate sexism and homophobia. The logic used to accomplish this "smear" was about as inverted as it could be- she was intolerant for not tolerating repugnant mindsets. Well- I also don't tolerate sexism and homophobia, so I guess I'm in good company.

129 The Other Les  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:59:04pm

re: #118 Ward Cleaver

re: #112 The Other Les

re: #103 Ward Cleaver


re: #96 The Other Les


re: #87 vapig


#73 Ward Cleaver 11/02/07 2:43:07 pm reply quote report 0 So now we're Stalinazis? How special.


Sounds redundant


I save my Nazi salutes for Rocky Horror night.


Do you take toast, too?


The local theater does not allow toast.

Oh, bummer. It's not fun if you can't throw toast at the screen.

I do bring toilet paper, but the theater security will throw out anyone who throws it forward of the second row of seats.

130 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:59:13pm

re: #122 jehu

I read the article by Paul Belien that you linked to Charles and I cannot see anything racist in the article, in fact I find it well written, well linked and informative on the fight for survival for freedom in Belgium. If others have linked to the article for their purposes, I am sure that has been done to you numerous times.

What is this all about? You have been writing about this for several days. Are we demanding a purity from the Belgians in fighting Islamo-facism that we will never achieve here either? Why are we (you) seeming so ready to label a major political movement racist that is probably the only and last hope for the Belgians? Can you do a thumbnail sketch of all of this, sort of summarize the players, the dangers you see, and maybe some alternatives, or what you would hope to see in their fight for freedom?


jeebus on a pogo stick. Are you really that stupid or do you just need the practice. Been under a rock in some other solar system? This has been going on for 2 weeks.

ploooooooooooooooome!

131 usmc1968  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:59:42pm

93 storagemanager

I don't like the term "BOUNTYHUNTER" does this SOB think he's better than someone else?

Just an A/H making money for being a ASSHOLE!

132 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:59:49pm

re: #119 ploome hineni
He also said...I told your brother's break up with their African American girlfriend's too...and they did.

133 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 2:59:57pm

re: #119 ploome hineni

re: #97 Ward Cleaver


re: #88 usmc1968

re: #81 storagemanager
What did he say?

He called his daughter's boyfriend a n****r, said he uses the word sometimes, and didn't want to be embarrassed over it.

big deal

tell DOG to go into REHAB...get Mel Gibson to support him

he shoudda dissed da Jews..

/and get a new hair stylist! Dog your hair color is not flattering..

sad...old man hair nest...you gotta know when to let it go.

134 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:00:35pm
135 Piglet-U93  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:01:14pm

re: #107 the_flying_pig

People should not forget about the Muslim-Nazi connections in the past.

It would seem that the Neo-Nazis are not aware of that in spite of opposing the Islamist jihadists in Europe and elsewhere. They're on the same team!

As I have stated previously the political spectrum is NOT linear it is circular. In this case left meets right with the inevitable cleansing purge further down the road. For the ignorant, history recycles endlessly.

136 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:01:16pm
137 father_of_10  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:01:27pm

OK, but what is the purpose of the "faggots kissing" picture? Did he put it there for pure shock value or just to insult LGFers?

138 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:01:56pm
139 The Other Les  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:01:58pm

re: #108 zombie

Totally, OT, but there's nowhere else to post it:

New zombietime report just unveiled:

San Francisco Anti-War Rally, October 27, 2007

When you want to take a break from Euro-politics, you're really gonna like this one.

Behold! The willing servants of the Enemies of Mankind!

Pardon me. I'm going to puke now.

140 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:02:00pm

re: #124 Charles

That post also expresses admiration for the British National Party.

I caught that. What I found most telling about that reference is that there seemed to be no sense on the writer's part just how damning a reference it was.

This is one of the reasons I say Americans have a much better chance of understanding Europeans that Europeans will ever have understanding us.

141 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:02:21pm

re: #124 Charles

re: #110 wahabicorridor


One of the oddest things. Don't know if any of you read the BJ thread 'Schroedinger's Cat....". Toward the very end, the writer trots out '80 years of scientific studies showing mean differences across racial groups' - paraphrased as well as memory permits. Basically, whites are the smart ones, the rest are intellectually inferior.

I was going to write a post there asking of anyone thought Belgians born w/Down's syndrom should be excluded from citizenship - even residency perhaps.

To allocate various levels of human dignity according to some social classification ultimately demeans your own. And Belien has just proved it.


That post also expresses admiration for the British National Party.

Wow, can you say eugenics? Scary.

142 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:02:29pm
143 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:03:00pm

Dammit!

Planet!

Vlammit!

144 1389  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:03:01pm

re: #61 SpringheelJack

Internet Flame Wars rarely never accomplish anything useful.

Fixed it for you...

145 toomanysnax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:03:24pm

re: #108 zombie

Must have been an off day. I couldn't find any old, cold udders.

146 gop_patriot  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:03:25pm

re: #108 zombie

Totally, OT, but there's nowhere else to post it:

New zombietime report just unveiled:

San Francisco Anti-War Rally, October 27, 2007

When you want to take a break from Euro-politics, you're really gonna like this one.

The "Passive/Aggressive" page is priceless.
Great work as usual, Zombie!

147 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:03:34pm

re: #108 zombie

Totally, OT, but there's nowhere else to post it:

New zombietime report just unveiled:

San Francisco Anti-War Rally, October 27, 2007

When you want to take a break from Euro-politics, you're really gonna like this one.


Yay for the awesomeness of zombie!

148 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:03:50pm
149 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:04:02pm

whabicorridor 130

Is your name Charles? You can also point out to me anything specifically racist in the Belien post, perhaps you are far more sensitive to racial slurs than me and somehow picked it up?

150 Yank in the EU  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:04:02pm

re: #110 wahabicorridor

You're totally, right, Wahabi.

That article endorsed the BNP as well. What's mind-blowing to me is how that site can possibly be defended after many things like that. If people say LGF is making a mistake in this, I have to say to them: what planet are you from? Are you paying attention at all?

Further, let's hear their thoughts on racial nationalism, which is the core of the matter in all of this. I notice some people defending that and it's sad.

151 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:04:11pm

re: #81 storagemanager

re: #78 usmc1968


58 storagemanager

Speech police again!


What Dog said was vile...he should be fired.

his salary will double....probably release a cd and do a movie

152 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:04:46pm

'Night Lizards!

153 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:05:10pm

re: #138 ploome hineni

re: #132 storagemanager

well

what would your mother say?

/I was not allowed to date Christians...not that I listened

my Anglo/Irish boyfriends' mother was not too happy he was dating a Jewgirl


My great Nephew...is half Black....I do not find his remarks amusing.....

154 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:05:15pm

re: #137 father_of_10

OK, but what is the purpose of the "faggots kissing" picture? Did he put it there for pure shock value or just to insult LGFers?


see my #46

155 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:05:33pm
156 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:05:52pm
157 Render  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:05:52pm

re: #107 the_flying_pig

They, (Dukes international nazi's), are on both teams.

Here in the US, they oppose the war, Zionists, and anything to do with Jews.

In Europe, they find themselves in a more desperate situation, so they make alliances with any organization that will support them. Including going so far as to hold their noses while shaking hands with American Jews and anti-jihadists.

Nothing in VB's perfect white, Christian credo makes room for the remaining Jews of Europe. As at least of the VB supporters commenting here pointed out, the Jews of Europe have someplace "safe" to go. The Jews of Europe are just further down the list of VB's undesirables.

PROMISED
LAND,
R

158 Le_Patriot  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:05:54pm

re: #108 zombie

Totally, OT, but there's nowhere else to post it:

New zombietime report just unveiled:

San Francisco Anti-War Rally, October 27, 2007

When you want to take a break from Euro-politics, you're really gonna like this one.

___________________________________
Thanks, Zombie.
The "Free to be me" whack-job is probably a Ron Paul guy.

159 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:05:55pm

re: #76 jeppo

The fact remains that the Vlaams Belang remains the largest single party in Flanders.

Wow...I'm impressed. Vlaams Belang, a party which supports racial purity in a region (not even a country) that is no larger than a small ranch in Texas.

If Vlaams Belang were ever to succeed in creating an ethnically homogeneous Flanders, such a small population would end up a bunch of cock-eyed inbreds in a few generations anyhow...and it appears as if Vlaams Belang's members already have a head start.

160 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:06:18pm
161 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:06:28pm

re: #38 buzzsawmonkey

I've never, to my knowledge, heard of Richard Marx.

I had never heard of him either, until I called a radio station in Amarillo TX late one night and accidentally won one of his albums.

162 gop_patriot  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:06:35pm

re: #137 father_of_10

OK, but what is the purpose of the "faggots kissing" picture? Did he put it there for pure shock value or just to insult LGFers?

See #49 for Charles' response to that question!

163 Yank in the EU  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:06:54pm

#150 oops, no comma

164 father_of_10  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:07:04pm

re: #148 ploome hineni

re: #137 father_of_10

OK, but what is the purpose of the "faggots kissing" picture? Did he put it there for pure shock value or just to insult LGFers?

to turn us all on for the FRIDAY NIGHT DRINKING THREAD

/wassamatta you don;t find that kiss HOT?

////gak,feh, puke

Believe it or not, I've never been drunk. . . . but if some guy dressed like that planted smooch on my lips it would take at least 90 proof hooch to sanitize my mouth. Yeecchhhh!

165 Occasional Reader  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:07:06pm

re: #128 Sharmuta

where they ripped Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Oh, my.

That does it for me, too.

Belian isn't fit to clean Ayaan's shoes.

166 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:07:17pm

re: #151 albusteve

re: #81 storagemanager


re: #78 usmc1968

58 storagemanager
Speech police again!

What Dog said was vile...he should be fired.

his salary will double....probably release a cd and do a movie

I really don't think anybody wants to hear him sing.

/noooooooo!

167 Attaboid  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:07:19pm

Don't these people know the actual meaning of words?

/sheesh

168 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:07:39pm

re: #156 ploome hineni

re: #153 storagemanager

get over it

You are not in charge of my thinking.

169 Brett_McS  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:07:44pm

It's a shame to see conservatives buying into the whole Thought Crime thing. I'm tallking about LGF as well, here.

170 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:08:32pm
171 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:08:39pm

re: #169 Brett_McS

It's a shame to see conservatives buying into the whole Thought Crime thing. I'm tallking about LGF as well, here.

Do explain.

172 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:08:43pm

It must really stick in their lily-white, pure-bred craws
That they've been outted by a bunch of mutts.

173 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:08:47pm
And, in the process, the Vlaams Blok will bury mass immigration too.

I thought that line was rather sinister.


From my readings of Vdare there might be White Nationalists who contribute articles but there are other articles which are clearly not written by White Nationalists of for them.

It would be wrong to smear Vdare as WN. Malkin's just one example why not.

Vdare contributers represent a hodgepodge of conservatives who know something about the science of human genetics - be they African, European, Asian - in a society where liberalsdemonise discussion of race.

Since White Nationalists are interested in race they're likely to be interested in this site more than liberals. But Vdare is not hardcore or extremist, unless you consider Youtube hardcore and extremist, which you might.

Much better to read, learn and form your own opinion. Properly considered race doesn't mean discrimination but opportunity.

174 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:09:21pm

re: #150 Yank in the EU

They're too busy ripping Charles and his "echo chamber" to get to the heart of the matter. And for them to get to the heart of the matter- well... I think it leads to them having to take a long look at themselves. That's not normally something people want to do as individuals, much less as a collective. It's easier to deny and project your issues onto others- and that's what I'm seeing from the bj right now.

175 vapig  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:09:28pm
#96 The Other Les 11/02/07 2:48:52 pm reply quote report 0

re: #87 vapig

#73 Ward Cleaver 11/02/07 2:43:07 pm reply quote report 0 So now we're Stalinazis? How special.
Sounds redundant

I save my Nazi salutes for Rocky Horror night.

Very apropos considering the photo of the bondage boys....

176 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:09:45pm
re: #156 ploome hineni

re: #153 storagemanager

get over it

This is a tread about a bunce of racist...like dog...get a clue.

177 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:10:05pm

re: #102 Render

Duke and his minions have spent years trying to obtain mainstream acceptability and legitimacy, both in the US and in Europe.

We just exposed the crown jewel (VB) of his European efforts for what it is. DeWinter has been carefully groomed since he was a teenager for this leadership role.

Of course they're pissed. When they're done with the insults, they will then turn to threats.

M.O.,
R

Lovely. (and interesting)

Neo-Nazis have as long a reach as the Jihadists do, too, if not longer (depending on what angle you view it from - legal, political, thug violence, etc.) I'm sure Charles is used to death threats but I hope precautions have been taken.

178 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:10:12pm

re: #167 Attaboid

Don't these people know the actual meaning of words?

/sheesh


And you have just stumbled on one the most important issues in Western civilization - the corruption of language for political purposes. Yes, they understand the meanings of words. And they alter those meanings quite deliberately - if ever so subtley.

George Orwell was a fookin' genius.

179 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:10:18pm

re: #122 jehu

Vdare is an openly racist site, named after the first white child born in America. He continues to contribute to the site. The article was linked to approvingly from the holocaust deniers at the Institute for Historical Review. The article is about the "ProWhite" vlaams party. All the players in this story share the same racist ideology.

180 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:10:26pm
181 GregInSeattle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:10:53pm

I for one love Blacks, Browns, Whites, Greens, Purples, etc., etc.

What I DON'T LOVE are idealologies that seek to deprive me of my God-given freedoms.

182 Yank in the EU  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:11:32pm

re: #174 Sharmuta

Someone said the other day: 'when you find yourself sounding exactly like David Duke on nationalism and white folks, it's time to take a moral inventory'.

183 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:11:34pm

re: #180 ploome hineni

re: #168 storagemanager


re: #156 ploome hineni

re: #153 storagemanager
get over it

You are not in charge of my thinking.

of course not, but you getting offended because of your botherinlaws, sisters, uncles nephew is silly

/whatever


I do not like a racist....of any kind...sorry...you seem to dismiss them.

184 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:12:07pm
185 ostar  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:12:49pm

Charles, you've clearly made your point in earlier articles. Why keep responding ? Just let it go. You don't have to defend yourself from these types of attacks, and it only prolongs this.
The Islamofascists/Islamists/whatevertheyarecalled are probably laughing at this anyway. "Even those who fight against us are so weak and divided they take every chance to fight amongst themselves!"

186 Occasional Reader  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:13:07pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Vdare is an openly racist site, named after the first white child born in America.

Virginia Dare, correct? Who disappeared along with Roanoke. May the neo-Nazis also dry up and blow away.

187 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:13:59pm

re: #157 Render

re: #107 the_flying_pig
In Europe, they find themselves in a more desperate situation, so they make alliances with any organization that will support them. Including going so far as to hold their noses while shaking hands with American Jews and anti-jihadists.

Desprate for power, that is. All the more reason not to trust them.

188 Pygmalienation  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:14:02pm

Wow, the last week has sure witnessed the proverbial "separating the sheep from the goats". I'm personally saddened by the rift in the anti-jihad ranks, but this shake out HAD to happen and better now than later. I'm sure the Jihadists and they're enablers are gleeful, but hopefully they'll get over that...
Thank you so very much Charles for the heavy lifting your doing here and standing by your principles in the face of such vilification. And thanks to ALL you major lizards who have waded into the muck on behalf of getting to the truth in these matters.
Also, congrats to BabbaZee for her promotion to Lizardoid Operative--nice work!

189 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:14:10pm

re: #166 Ward Cleaver

re: #151 albusteve


re: #81 storagemanager

re: #78 usmc1968

58 storagemanager
Speech police again!

What Dog said was vile...he should be fired.

his salary will double....probably release a cd and do a movie

I really don't think anybody wants to hear him sing.

/noooooooo!

well someone put up a Richard Marx link...could it be any worse?

190 Render  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:14:40pm

re: #185 ostar

The more exposure this gets, the more people who know.

THE LIGHTS
ARE ON,
R

191 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:14:47pm

Any of the posters that have been following this dust-up give me a summary please. To me just looking at a few posts it seems that LGF et. al., while bemoaning the Islamization of Europe for several years now, are finding a political party that has the guts to fight not pure enough to take on the Islamofacists.

It reminds me of the Clinton Admin banning the CIA from using people that had criminal backgrounds to do intelligence gathering and we lost all humint capabilities because we went looking for Boy Scouts in a scummy world. Now is this Blaams party doing something so terrible that they cannot be supported, if so, what is that? At some point this fight against Islam will break on racial, religious, and national boundaries, how can it not?

192 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:14:58pm
193 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:15:15pm

Dog is no better than Mel Gibson....this whole thread is about the danger...racist hate....just as bad as Islamic hate...you see...hate is just hate.

194 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:15:16pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

re: #122 jehu

Vdare is an openly racist site, named after the first white child born in America. He continues to contribute to the site. The article was linked to approvingly from the holocaust deniers at the Institute for Historical Review. The article is about the "ProWhite" vlaams party. All the players in this story share the same racist ideology.

You're wrong. I've read a number of articles. You're 100% wrong. You'd also be 100% right that Vdare carries some dodgy articles but I know of nowhere else where genetic research and subject of race is discussed in relation to social policy.

That's an important issue that SHOULD NOT BE LEFT TO white nationalists. Genetic discoveries into many areas of human behaviour are snowballing. Don't let the White Nationalists get ahead of the curve on this one.

195 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:15:22pm

re: #169 Brett_McS

It's a shame to see conservatives buying into the whole Thought Crime thing. I'm tallking about LGF as well, here.

please elaborate

196 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:16:02pm

re: #192 ploome hineni

re: #183 storagemanager

at least 2 of his children were dating black women, obvioulsy DOG did not raise his children to be racist

DOGs' language about blacks, is a function of his social environment and education

DOG lives , how do you say, among people of the street, thats their language

now

I don;t care to discuss this anymore


He made them break up...watch the video.

197 Occasional Reader  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:16:11pm

re: #158 Le_Patriot

The "Free to be me" whack-job

"Whack-job" has taken on a whole new, awful meaning, with regard to zombie's SanFran pictorial spreads.

198 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:17:05pm
199 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:17:19pm

re: #191 jehu
will you fight with Neo-Nazi's?....and be judged some day?

200 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:17:39pm

re: #191 jehu

Charles decided he doesn't want to be associated with certain groups. That is his perogative, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

The End.

201 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:18:08pm

re: #170 ploome hineni

black in french is noire

negre is also black in French I think, maybe Spanish

people who spoke pidgin English or creole changed many words

Black in spanish is 'negro,' where we get the term 'negroes.' The N-word is I believe derived from a corruption of creole language, I think the word was 'niger' with the 'g' making a more french 'j' sound.

202 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:18:22pm

re: #198 ploome hineni

re: #193 storagemanager


Dog is no better than Mel Gibson....this whole thread is about the danger...racist hate....just as bad as Islamic hate...you see...hate is just hate.

I will wait to see the Catholic church and Catholics defend Dog


Why would they?...

203 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:19:04pm

re: #165 Occasional Reader

Here's where Charles linked to the article- so you can read it yourself. Personally- I think if one is opposed to islamofascism, you'd have to be half out of your mind to attack Ayaan. They bemoan cries of racism when discussing islam, yet alienate one of the few voices in Europe where that claim could not stick. That is the height of stupidity, and I personally find it speaking volumes about their agenda.

204 re  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:19:16pm

stalin and hitler - their ideologies and methodologies - were more related than disparate.

after their p[act fell apart, stalin became our ally ONLY out of mutual necessity.

ideologically and methodologically stalin and hitler's conflict with each other was INTERNECINE. not unlike stalin versus trotsky, but necessarily fought on a much wider scale.

THEREFORE CHARLES... it is not weird or illogical or misinformed to call someone BOTH a stalinist and a nazi.

nazi stood for national SOCIALIST workers party abd hiutler was a socialist as was stalin and mussolini..

ALL WERE STATISTS.

all of the left. (hitler and mussolini were nationalists and racists; stalin an internationalist and marxist; marxism is a subset of socialism).

THE BIGGEST BIG LIE EVER TOLD BY STATIST TOTALITARIAN LOVERS AND EVER BELIEVED BY THE MASSES WAS THIS:

THAT COMMUNISM WAS LEFT AND NAZISM/FASCISM RIGHT.

this is PURE LEFTIST PROPAGANDA - designed to distance them from Hitler after the pact fell apart.

In that traditional spectrum there is no logical place for ANARCHISM.

PROOF IT IS BUNK.

in an accurate model or spectrum, all statist tyrannies are onn the left, and anarchism on the right, and mized systems (ranging from ours to let's say scandinavia's) in the middle - us on middle-right, and scandinvaia's on middle-left.

I AM NOT SAYING BELIEN WAS RIGHT TO CALL YOU BOTH A STALINIST AND A NAZI.

BUT HE IS NOT SAYING ANYTHING CONTRADITORY WHEN HE BUINDLES THE TWO.

all the best.

(kiss and make up!)

205 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:19:20pm

re: #186 Occasional Reader

Yup.

206 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:19:34pm
207 oilbertan  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:20:44pm

Charles, this guy needs to take some basic reading and comprehension lessons if he cannot understand that you were referring to comments posted by others at his site. Speaking of rude comments, you should check out Mark Steyn's Mailbox at his site. Numerous vile and profanity laced remarks from so called progressives regarding Steyn's comments on the Frost family re the SCHIP issue. I never see those kind of comments from Lizards and if someone is that rank their comments are deleted post haste. Personally, I take the opprobrium of asshats like this as a positive. You know they have no argument when they hurl expletives and make no attempt to debate with facts.

208 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:20:58pm

I think the passage below is why we AMERICANS aren't warming to the whole "White Europe" policy - this European movement goes against our grain as to what a Free society is all about. I read these words and it is driven home that our European brothers, who fuss about exposing Vlaams Blok, are way off the mark. If they kept "RACE" out of the argument, they'd get much more support. But they just can't ... that's very sad.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt

209 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:21:11pm

some here...dismiss one kind of racist remark...and blow a gasket over another one...very telling....we should against all kinds of racist...after all Islam is the king.

210 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:21:27pm
211 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:21:34pm

re: #191 jehu


It started here.

Do an advanced search of LGF Entries from October 23 thru day using the search term "Vlaams Belang'. You'll see the rest of the threads.

212 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:22:14pm

..........Speaking of Sado-masochist gear.
Maybe Victoria Secret should do an SM catalog.

213 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:22:38pm

re: #191 jehu You need to watch the video BabbaZee posted

214 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:22:40pm

re: #206 jeppo

In the June 2007 Belgian elections, the VB garnered 800, 000 votes. This out of a total Flemish population of only 6 million. Extrapolated to America, the VB would receive 40 million votes. 40,000,000 votes! Don't like the VB? Tough bananas. They're here to stay and they're only going to get stronger.

Better to align ourselves with these conservative nationalists like the majority of the counterjihadi community in Europe and North America, than remain isolated and become increasingly marginalized in the overall debate.

whats it worth to survive if you compromise your principles?...I'd far rather be isolated and marginalized...and even dead if thats how it turns

215 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:22:47pm

re: #200 rappmandu

re: #191 jehu

Charles decided he doesn't want to be associated with certain groups. That is his perogative, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

The End.


Sometimes you DO have to hold your nose and take what allies you can get, however sleazy they are. This, however, is not one of those times. In an idealogical war, ideologies matter...You can't let every creepy fringe group jump on the bandwagon in an attempt to stop the spread of evil. You may delay it for a while, but sooner or later, there will be chaos.

216 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:23:27pm

re: #191 jehu

Now is this Blaams party doing something so terrible that they cannot be supported, if so, what is that?

Take a look at the front page of lgf over the past week. The are White Supremacists and Nazi sympathizers. Charles has linked to a mountain of evidence over the past week.

217 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:23:43pm

Kilgore Trout 179

Thanks, I no longer have time to follow much anymore. It distresses me that Europe is apparently dying and the only cure they can find for the cancer of Islam is the slower cancer of racism? Is it the opinion of the independent thinkers here that Paul Belien is a closet racist? Or political opportunist, or some mix? I get the sense that he is posting on openly neo-nazi sites, or white supremacist sites, or anti-semitic sites, is that the gist of it? And is Belien the leader of the Blaams Whatever party?

218 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:23:47pm

re: #191 jehu

It's about aligning ourselves w/people who have a long history of w/s leanings.whos major problem w/ islamic facsism is based on xenophobia/race hatred,as opposed to the forcing of islamic ideals/violence upon their society.
(can someone more literate than i pick this up?0

219 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:24:09pm

re: #206 jeppo

In the June 2007 Belgian elections, the VB garnered 800, 000 votes. This out of a total Flemish population of only 6 million. Extrapolated to America, the VB would receive 40 million votes. 40,000,000 votes! Don't like the VB? Tough bananas. They're here to stay and they're only going to get stronger.

Better to align ourselves with these conservative nationalists like the majority of the counterjihadi community in Europe and North America, than remain isolated and become increasingly marginalized in the overall debate.


You can't 'extrapolate' votes...

Also, I like my country Nazi free, thank you very much.

220 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:25:28pm
221 saberry0530  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:25:50pm

Lizoids,
Please keep in mind that everything that comes from Europe, well, comes from EUROPE. Take it with a railroad car full of salt. How many times have we (THE USA) saved their collective lovin' asses from themselves? Always been easy prey for the alternative view point and an enigmatic speaker all the whilst echoing how superior intellectually they are. Most things are Black and white. Makes it easier for the average Joe (like me) to understand and implement. Just adding my 5 cents worth.

222 Yank in the EU  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:26:40pm

re: #208 LSD

That's a great quote. As a white guy, I believe that down to the bottom of my soul and will always fight for that. There can be no accomodation of people defending a racial nationalist ideology. It is also anathema to the Christian faith, for people are reduced to biological traits as if they had no unconditional value. The WN crowd may speak freely, as far as I am concerned, but they must enter into no alliances with us.

223 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:27:01pm

re: #220 ploome hineni

re: #202 storagemanager


re: #198 ploome hineni

re: #193 storagemanager

Dog is no better than Mel Gibson....this whole thread is about the danger...racist hate....just as bad as Islamic hate...you see...hate is just hate.

I will wait to see the Catholic church and Catholics defend Dog

Why would they?...

why would and why DID they defend Mel Gibson?

YOU said hate was hate


#193 storagemanager

Dog is no better than Mel Gibson....this whole thread is about the danger...racist hate....just as bad as Islamic hate...you see...hate is just hate.


so if the CHURCH could defend that POS, surely they will defend DOG


Maybe because he is building a muti-million dollar church?

224 nolocon  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:27:32pm

re: #198 ploome hineni

re: #193 storagemanager

Dog is no better than Mel Gibson....this whole thread is about the danger...racist hate....just as bad as Islamic hate...you see...hate is just hate.

I will wait to see the Catholic church and Catholics defend Dog

Yikes. Who would've figured a Dog thread takes a sharp turn into a Bigotry Against Catholics theme?

BTW ... Mel Gibson spews some garbage while stumbling drunk, and later spends months apologizing repeatedly and profusely.
I suspect that people still beating that story have a lot more baggage in their agenda than his drunken tirade.

225 father_of_10  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:27:41pm

Wait, according to the new thought police, all white people are racist because they are white and it is impossible for blacks to be racists because they are black. So does that mean that Michele Malkin is not a racist or what? She apparently is neither white nor black. I guess the thought police haven't thought that far out yet.

What about Bill Cosby and other black leaders that have commented about the failings of people of color? Are they racist? Of course they can't be, so they are ignored.

This white supremest crap is getting as old as 1970's black power was. The more attention we pay to this stuff, the more racist the world becomes.

Now Dog is in trouble because he was talking like . . . Dog? What else do we expect from him? Look at him. Do we expect him to not act the part he plays? What part of "Reality TV" don't we understand?

226 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:27:54pm

Gee, for such a self-assured, growing, unstoppable movement, they sure seem awful rattled by a bunch of scruffy no-names saying, "No, thanks."

Heh.

227 neocon hippie  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:28:11pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

re: #122 jehu

Vdare is an openly racist site, named after the first white child born in America. He continues to contribute to the site. The article was linked to approvingly from the holocaust deniers at the Institute for Historical Review. The article is about the "ProWhite" vlaams party. All the players in this story share the same racist ideology.

I read the article, and while I am no fan of VB, I did not see the word "white" once in the article.

228 zuckerlilly  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:28:34pm

for the record (the more I dig the more it gets worst):

Flemish nazi checks in to Valhalla
From correspondents in The Netherlands and Belgium
Searchlight, November 2005

Nazi veteran and former leader of the Flemish paramilitary Vlaamse Militanten Orde (VMO) Bert Eriksson died, aged 73, of a lung disease, at the beginning of October in the Dutch village of Westdorpe, near the Belgian border.

Eriksson was active in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. The VMO was banned in 1984 under laws banning private militias and Eriksson was jailed for a year. After being outlawed, many VMO members flocked into the "respectable" Vlaams Blok (VB, some of them even making a career as federal or Flemish MPs. Eriksson's Antwerp cafe, 'Den Odal', also the name of his new group, remained a magnet for nazis from across the whole of Europe. The VMO, created in the 1950s by the remains of the Flemish nationalist movement, was taken over by Eriksson in the early 1970s. This criminal gang served as the (unofficial) "security service" of the VB during its early years. The VMO's support played a key role in the survival of the – then marginal – VB during its early years. Eriksson was a personal friend of most of the VB's "celebrities" and was honoured more than once in the VB media as a Flemish "hero and idealist".

The former VMO boss, son of a Finnish father and a Flemish mother, was a nazi to the marrow. Living in Antwerp, he joined the Hitler Youth at the age of thirteen and never hid his adoration for Hitler. "The only thing Hitler did wrong was losing the war" and "Yes, I'm a nazi, anything wrong with that?" were his favourite statements.

------

VMO

Anti-Semitic history

A co-founder of the extreme-right Vlaams Blok party (now called Vlaams Belang), in the Flemish-speaking part of Belgium, Verbeke has run for more than 25 years the Antwerp-based Free Historical Research organisation, active in spreading books and leaflets negating the Holocaust.

Prior to this, he led a paramilitary neo-nazi organization, called “Vlaamse Militanten Orde” (for “Flemish Militant Order”)
Convicted in Belgium in 2003, together with his brother Herbert, by an Antwerp court for Holocaust denial and racism, an appeal court toughened a previous sentence and condemned Verbeke to one year imprisonment. His civil and political rights were withdrawn for a 1O-year period.

-----------

(this was already posted)

Perusal of the Vlaams Blok Magazine, the party's official monthly
publication, reveals its true political character. In 1998, the magazine
published an article favorable to Terre et Peuple (Land and People, an anti-Semitic Germano-French racist association and co-founder of Bruno Mégret's FN--Mouvement national). The article bore the signature of Roeland Raes, vice-president of the VB. Since the 1960s, Raes has been involved in collaboration between Flemish and foreign neo-fascist movements. Also in 1998, the VB monthly published an interview with Jean-Robert Debbaudt, an old member of the Wallonia SS who was one of the Belgian contacts of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP); he also put out a revisionist pamphlet on World War II, written by Léon Degrelle, and subsequently joined the VB. Later in the year Raes paid tribute to the Vlaamse Militanten Orde (VMO), the largest neo-Nazi and revisionist paramilitary group of the 1970s. Karel Dillen, the honorary president, wrote an obituary honoring the French fascist writer Maurice Bardèche, who died in Paris in August. Dillen had translated into Dutch Bardèche's 1947 work Nuremberg ou la terre promise, the first revisionist book ever published.

(continued)

229 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:28:49pm

re: #195 Boondock St. Bender


26 posts in a year.
I have been noticing that many coming out chastising Charles for his stance and supporting VB have been pretty quiet on thousands of other issues that have been discussed here.
Take that for what its worth.


/I am not saying you have to be a regular poster to comment on anything, I just find that interesting.

230 unclassifiable  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:29:07pm

re: #108 zombie

I am still amazed at you retaining your anonimity while wearing one of these.

/is that you in the background getting hosed off after the march?

231 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:29:07pm
232 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:29:10pm

re: #61 SpringheelJack

Are you inferring that Charles started this? He did not. Atlas did, and Charles has every right to defend himself. He was right from his first comment. Then fjordman, Gates of Vienna, and others who should know better joined in with her.

She came here and relentlessly attacked for a few days, and fjordman was [deleted].

If you were the top level blogger, and this was done to you ,would you sit there and take it? I sincerely doubt it. Other blogs have lost respect and veracity in this, but Charles has come out earning even more respect. I cannot believe that the sniping at Charles and LGF continues.

That Charles is in the position of defending himself in the first place is ludicrous, but it seems that the more evidence he finds only makes the attacks more vicious. Some bloggers just cannot admit they are wrong, as we have seen.

Any of us can only hope that we bring our kids to be as honorable as Charles.

He is the good guy in this, as usual.

233 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:29:46pm
234 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:30:23pm

An interesting outcome at a "ws site" doing a bnp search..
Note, this is dumpster diving....ewwwwwwwwww

[Link: www.newsnet14.com...]

235 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:30:51pm

re: #217 jehu

Is it the opinion of the independent thinkers here that Paul Belien is a closet racist?


He's actually fairly open about it:

Moreover, why do American politicians across the board, including Republicans and senior members of the Bush administration, cooperate with La Raza, meaning “the race,” a Mexican group Charles Johnson himself calls a Hispanic supremacist group? Why is this considered OK, while native Europeans who simply don’t want to become a minority in their own countries are demons?

He wants nonwhites out of Europe.

And is Belien the leader of the Blaams Whatever party?

No, was one of the bloggers who organized the Anti-Islam conference last month. He's also married to a Vlaams representative. So he has a vested interest in seeing that Vlaams gain legitamacy in the US. They're basically using the anti-Jihad movement to gain credibility.

236 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:31:20pm

I propose revisiting this issue in the future...

Say, after the last American who ever met a WWII vet has passed away?

237 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:32:03pm

re: #236 rappmandu

I propose revisiting this issue in the future...

Say, after the last American who ever met a WWII vet has passed away?


My father was one.

238 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:32:19pm

199 Storagemanager

will you fight with Neo-Nazi's?....and be judged some day?

I seem to remember we won WWII because someone made the decision to fight with Russia's Stalin, responsible for murdering far more than Hitler, in order to defeat what was perceived as the greater threat in Nazi Germany. When it comes to a fight for survival, I will fight with lesser devils to defeat greater devils and hopefully have enough energy left after the fight to put the knife in the gut of the lesser evil. Patton and Churchill thought thus, and I think they were right. This demand for idealogical purity in this fight makes me uneasy in a way I cannot explain. But to me Islamofacism is so evil all others seem small, maybe that is just a problem with my personal perception.

239 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:32:19pm

re: #224 nolocon

re: #198 ploome hineni


re: #193 storagemanager

Dog is no better than Mel Gibson....this whole thread is about the danger...racist hate....just as bad as Islamic hate...you see...hate is just hate.

I will wait to see the Catholic church and Catholics defend Dog

Yikes. Who would've figured a Dog thread takes a sharp turn into a Bigotry Against Catholics theme?

BTW ... Mel Gibson spews some garbage while stumbling drunk, and later spends months apologizing repeatedly and profusely.
I suspect that people still beating that story have a lot more baggage in their agenda than his drunken tirade.


This also begs the question, who gives a damn what either Dog OR mel Gibson say...Certainly not me.

If we ignore them, they usually go away...

240 Occasional Reader  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:33:10pm

re: #232 NY Nana

Are you inferringimplying

(sorry, Nana... pet peeve!)

241 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:33:15pm

re: #206 jeppo

Better to align ourselves with these conservative nationalists like the majority of the counterjihadi community in Europe and North America, than remain isolated and become increasingly marginalized in the overall debate.

If we don't stand for our principles, then who will? Advocating the abandonment of another's principles is, imo, morally wrong- at least in this case. If you're not going to stand on principle, why stand at all?

242 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:33:19pm

Charles -

So let’s look at Belien’s writing. Here’s an article by Paul Belien himself, published at the hard-core (some say extremist) anti-immigrant web site Vdare.com: VDARE.com: Anti-Immigration Party Banned In Belgium, by Paul Belien.

Hard-core... about what?

Extremist... about what?

You're throwing verbal grenades and they're landing at your feet.

I've read anti-semetic and White Nationalist articles there but I've also read articles by a wide variety of contributers who are definitely not anti-semetic or White Nationalist. They're not even white or European.

By attaching an emotional label to this site you inadvertantly shut down discussion on issues of race and society when we should be addressing this reality. Because if we don't they might, and they might get it wrong.

I also find it interesting you let the ADL tell you what to believe about Vdare

racist, anti-Semitic, and anti-immigrant articles authored by extremists

Ann Coulter has plausibly argued the ADL might as well be another leftist smear site since it fawns over Ahmadinejad while ignoring the threats to Israel.

You need to read up on some behavioural genetics for a reality check and come back. Science does not make one an extremist.

243 pjcomix  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:34:00pm

Hi Everybody. I've posted a few DUmmie FUnnies editions here from time to time. Right now the DUmmie FUnnies is a finalist in the 2007 Weblog Awards for FUnniest Blog. In fact as of right now the DUmmie FUnnies is in the lead in that category but only slightly. The extreme leftwing Sadly No! site is now catching up rapidly. That leftwing blog is also extremely anti-Western religion. If you don't believe me check it out for yourselves. Maybe the DUmmie FUnnies isn't exactly saintly (more like irreverent) but we certainly aren't sacreligeous.

Please consider going to this LINK and voting for the DUmmie FUnnies as the FUnniest Blog on the Web. If the DUFUs lose then the far left sicko Sadly No! wins. Thanx in advance for your support and sorry for this bit of "pimp blogging" but think of the alternative.

p.s. If the DUmmie FUnnies win, then I get to meet Charles at the Weblog Awards ceremony in Las Vegas next week. :-)

244 nolocon  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:34:24pm

re: #231 ploome hineni

re: #224 nolocon


BTW ... Mel Gibson spews some garbage while stumbling drunk, and later spends months apologizing repeatedly and profusely.
I suspect that people still beating that story have a lot more baggage in their agenda than his drunken tirade.

yes

family in the death camps asshole


I express great sympathy for your family. You, on the other hand, are a hate-filled bigot with no manners.

245 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:34:55pm

re: #227 neocon hippie

No it's not mentioned but Vlaams Block was an openly racist party and was outlawed as such. The article was written by someone supportive of the Vlaams cause and was published on a White Pride site.

246 Occasional Reader  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:35:07pm

re: #235 Killgore Trout

He wants nonwhites out of Europe.


In all fairness... that particular quote doesn't necessarily support that description.

247 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:35:09pm

re: #238 jehu

199 Storagemanager

will you fight with Neo-Nazi's?....and be judged some day?

I seem to remember we won WWII because someone made the decision to fight with Russia's Stalin, responsible for murdering far more than Hitler, in order to defeat what was perceived as the greater threat in Nazi Germany. When it comes to a fight for survival, I will fight with lesser devils to defeat greater devils and hopefully have enough energy left after the fight to put the knife in the gut of the lesser evil. Patton and Churchill thought thus, and I think they were right. This demand for idealogical purity in this fight makes me uneasy in a way I cannot explain. But to me Islamofacism is so evil all others seem small, maybe that is just a problem with my personal perception.


A Nation did that....I am talking about you....I myself...will stand with no hate group.

248 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:36:03pm

re: #242 therewaslight

Science does not make one an extremist.

No, but selective editing and warping of scientific research can...

249 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:36:51pm

re: #206 jeppo

Better to align ourselves with these conservative nationalists like the majority of the counterjihadi community in Europe and North America, than remain isolated and become increasingly marginalized in the overall debate.

Your moral turpitude is showing again.

From Joachim Fest, the German historian:

As Fest makes clear, nobody in Berlin in 1940 was listening to radio call-in shows debating whether the invasions of France and Poland were morally acceptable.

Rather: One night, Fest overheard his mother asking his father, the Roman Catholic, Prussian nationalist, and friend of Jews, can't you join the Nazi Party? We won't really be changing, she said, and lying is how little people have always dealt with the powerful.

"We are not little people," Fest's father shot back. "Not on this subject!"

Others Will Betray You. Not I.

250 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:37:29pm

re: #248 NoSpam

re: #242 therewaslight

Science does not make one an extremist.

No, but selective editing and warping of scientific research can...

Publish your own article there then.

251 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:37:58pm

re: #241 Sharmuta

re: #206 jeppo


Better to align ourselves with these conservative nationalists like the majority of the counterjihadi community in Europe and North America, than remain isolated and become increasingly marginalized in the overall debate.

If we don't stand for our principles, then who will? Advocating the abandonment of another's principles is, imo, morally wrong- at least in this case. If you're not going to stand on principle, why stand at all?

agreed...you cant buy me off with an ideology I oppose...survival is over rated haha...

252 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:38:12pm

re: #97 Ward Cleaver

His son taped him: Lawyer: Chapman's son sold N-word tape .

253 EC Marm  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:38:15pm

re: #231 ploome hineni

family in the death camps asshole


I am sorry to see that.
However the population in Germany is approximately 50% Catholic and 50% a combination of Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. Look at the writings of Martin Luther for the blueprint of what happened there. You know what religion he had it out for initially, don't you? And who he went after NEXT?

254 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:39:51pm

Wow, these Euro folks and their supporters sure seem afraid that their movement will fail without some LGF people joining their side.

Makes me wonder.

255 shiplord kirel  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:40:02pm
I propose revisiting this issue in the future...

Say, after the last American who ever met a WWII vet has passed away?

Yikes! That would be a looooong time. My grandmother, who is still alive today at age 103, met some veterans of the Mexican War (1846-48) when she was very young and there were many, many Civil War veterans around in those days.
I never met any Civil War vets but I did know some people who could remember it. Our next door neighbor in Colorado Springs in the 1950s, a Mrs. Rice, had been born in Washington DC in 1859 and could remember seeing Abe Lincoln in person, specifically at his second inauguration.

256 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:40:04pm

re: #240 Occasional Reader

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me! ;)

257 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:40:38pm

re: #250 therewaslight

re: #248 NoSpam


re: #242 therewaslight

Science does not make one an extremist.

No, but selective editing and warping of scientific research can...

Publish your own article there then.


huh?

258 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:40:45pm

re: #246 Occasional Reader

Ok, Is it fair to say he wants to see less nonwhites in Europe? We can split hairs all day but his ideology is based on race.

259 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:41:15pm
260 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:41:24pm

re: #253 EC Marm

re: #231 ploome hineni


family in the death camps asshole

I am sorry to see that.
However the population in Germany is approximately 50% Catholic and 50% a combination of Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. Look at the writings of Martin Luther for the blueprint of what happened there. You know what religion he had it out for initially, don't you? And who he went after NEXT?

I don't know where you got those stats, but the last time I checked, the German churches of whatever denomination were just about empty.

261 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:41:35pm

#225 The MEDIA is humping The DOG. Those who listen to THE WHOLE CONVERSATION will get a little different idea about Dog.

262 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:42:01pm

re: #238 jehu

Name one battlefeild where americans and soviets fought together side/side against the germans.(the term europe is a lil' too vague

263 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:42:01pm

re: #238 jehu

The idea that maybe those not not interested in supporting a non-white supremacist agenda should start their own party has been largely ignored.

Also, the idea that the Islamo-fascists would just LOVE for their enemies to do this seems to get ignored.
Much easier to discredit the entire anti-jihad movement.
But hell, people shoot themselves in the foot while pulling their gun out of their holster all the time.

264 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:42:07pm

re: #242 therewaslight

I've read anti-semetic and White Nationalist articles there...

And yet you think the 'extremist' label is unfair?

Let's see ... antisemitic and White Nationalist articles don't warrant the label 'extremist.' What sort of articles would need to be there for you to agree with that label?

265 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:42:10pm

re: #252 NY Nana

re: #97 Ward Cleaver

His son taped him: Lawyer: Chapman's son sold N-word tape .

its a great story if youre into celebs...Dog spews, son sells him off like some cheesy whore...I love it

266 zuckerlilly  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:42:11pm

While the VB is a legally-constituted party with three Euro-MPs and twenty-six seats in the Belgian parliament, it has, through Dewinter, built close links with violent neo-Nazi groups like Voorpost, a successor to the banned Vlaamse Militante Orde (VMO), whose members had a long record of bloody assaults on political opponents. Voorpost has provided "security" for the VB.

---------

The Vlaams Blok of Flanders has become one of the strongest extreme right parties in Europe. The most serious anti-Semitic incident in 1997 was the attempt to set fire to the Anderlecht synagogue in Brussels. The Belgian government appointed a commission to locate property confiscated from Jewish Holocaust victims. The Belgium-based European Foundation for Free Historical Research is one of the main distributors of Holocaust denial today.

The Belgium-based European Foundation for Free Historical Research (Vrij Historisch Onderzoek -- VHO), headed by Siegfried Verbeke, is one of the main distributors of Holocaust denial maerial in the world today (see previous reports). This is in spite of the fact that Belgium passed a law in 1995 making Holocaust denial illegal. VHO maintains strong links with individuals and organizations in several countries, such as Radio Islam in Sweden, the Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (CODOH) in California, and the Australian Adelaide Institute. VHO publishes, translates and disseminates Holocaust denial publications from all over the world, mainly through its widely-linked website on the Internet. Recently, Verbeke began propagating on his website the quarterly Vierteljahreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung (Quarterly for Free Historical Research), a forum for Holocaust denial in German. He distributes books and pamphlets that are banned in Germany (see Germany). German Holocaust denier Germar Rudolf, who fled to Spain to avoid serving a prison sentence, is one of Verbeke's favorite authors. His publications, translated into several languages can be downloaded from the VHO-website.

Publications that present a forum for those who deny Nazi war guilt and the Holocaust, include Periodiek Contact, issued by Hertog jan van Brabant (HJVB), a group of former SS-collaborators with close links to the VHO, Forum, edited by the Belgian Christian League, and Le Cri du Citoyen (Voice of the People), representing the ideas of the FNB.

267 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:42:24pm
268 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:43:12pm

re: #225 father_of_10

This white supremest crap is getting as old as 1970's black power was. The more attention we pay to this stuff, the more racist the world becomes.

Well, just looking here in Sweden, one of the reasons the Sweden Democrats got the numbers they did in the last election, was precisely because people tried to ignore them. Partly, they used this to portray themselves as underdogs, with the whole "people are afraid of us because we speak the truth" tirade, but mainly their increase in support was because their ideas were left uncontested. They were left to say whatever crap they wanted, and no one debunked any of it, so in the end a lot of people voted for the party that offered easy answers to complex problems.

Destroyers will always appear among men, and they will always manage to garner followers. Every time this happens, their ideas need to be dismantled by direct intellectual confrontation. Keeping our mouths shut and letting them run around un-checked and spread their vile ideas simply will not do.

269 shiplord kirel  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:43:51pm

I remember hearing that it is statistically probable that about half a dozen WW2 veterans will live past 110. It is likely that the very last of them will pass on about 2038 or 2039. That means that the last person who actually knew a WW2 vet will be around until probably 2140.

Plenty of people alive today will live to see the 22nd century, an obvious observation but one that gives me chills to think about.

270 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:44:24pm

re: #242 therewaslight

And who's probably banned sockpuppet are you?

271 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:44:35pm

re: #264 Charles

I miss that ol' LGF Prayer. Especially the part about honest opponents.

272 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:44:52pm

re: #261 LSD

#225 The MEDIA is humping The DOG. Those who listen to THE WHOLE CONVERSATION will get a little different idea about Dog.


Oh really....that he admits to using the n word alot.....that he told two of his sons to break up with black women...and they did....I grew up at the time of Martin Luther King....this racist crap should get no excuse from anyone....if you think this was o.k.....look deep into your soul.

273 EC Marm  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:45:28pm

re: #260 wahabicorridor

I don't know where you got those stats, but the last time I checked, the German churches of whatever denomination were just about empty.


Figures I looked at recently from Wiki. The churches may be empty, but it was based on numbers supplied by the churches of their parishioners.

274 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:45:32pm

re: #255 shiplord kirel

I propose revisiting this issue in the future...Say, after the last American who ever met a WWII vet has passed away?

Yikes! That would be a looooong time. My grandmother, who is still alive today at age 103, met some veterans of the Mexican War (1846-48) when she was very young and there were many, many Civil War veterans around in those days.
I never met any Civil War vets but I did know some people who could remember it. Our next door neighbor in Colorado Springs in the 1950s, a Mrs. Rice, had been born in Washington DC in 1859 and could remember seeing Abe Lincoln in person, specifically at his second inauguration.

My mother remembers a great uncle who had not only served in the Civil War but had been captured and spent time in Libby Prison in Richmond and was involved in the famous escape.

I guess that's the issue in a way -- when living memory fades, it becomes more difficult to retain the cultural memory. Rule of thumb: 175 years is the horizon of living memory. After that point, it is practically impossible to find someone who knew someone who was involved in a particular historical event.

275 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:45:59pm

re: #257 NoSpam

re: #250 therewaslight

re: #248 NoSpam


re: #242 therewaslight


Science does not make one an extremist.


No, but selective editing and warping of scientific research can...


Publish your own article there then.


huh?

If you think they have "selectively edited and warped scientific research."

But remember now this will take the discussion OT since I accept Vdare has publised White Nationalist and anti-semitic articles.

My argument is that's because race is a subject which interests White Nationalists and anti-semites. Merely discussing the science of genetics does not make one a white nationalist or anti-semite.

That would be a contradiction for someone like Michelle Malkin who has written there, for example.

276 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:46:32pm

re: #266 zuckerlilly


Thank you zuckerlilly. I've just bookmarked your post in my Vlaams Belang folder.

277 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:47:20pm

re: #265 albusteve

I am sooooo glad to be a non-celebrity..so glad.

It ain't worth it. And people still pay to see them, buy their albums..IMHO, 'celebrity' is a cult.

278 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:47:51pm

re: #255 shiplord kirel

I propose revisiting this issue in the future...
Say, after the last American who ever met a WWII vet has passed away?

Yikes! That would be a looooong time. My grandmother, who is still alive today at age 103, met some veterans of the Mexican War (1846-48) when she was very young and there were many, many Civil War veterans around in those days.
I never met any Civil War vets but I did know some people who could remember it. Our next door neighbor in Colorado Springs in the 1950s, a Mrs. Rice, had been born in Washington DC in 1859 and could remember seeing Abe Lincoln in person, specifically at his second inauguration.

I love stuff like this...my granny had an old family friend that fought the war then spent years chasing indians out west...I have several photos of the old guy and his bedroom suit...Eastlake Victorian in walnut...she told me many stories about him down thru the times

279 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:47:56pm

re: #269 shiplord kirel

Yeah, I was going for hyperbole. The memories and stories of our WWII vets will live far, far into the future. I don't think a bunch of Euro punks are going to wipe that out anytime soon.

280 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:49:20pm

re: #268 Truumax

Destroyers will always appear among men, and they will always manage to garner followers. Every time this happens, their ideas need to be dismantled by direct intellectual confrontation. Keeping our mouths shut and letting them run around un-checked and spread their vile ideas simply will not do.

What's that phrase? Evil succeeds when Good Men do nothing? Something like that.

Clearly this week we've seen what happens when we do shine the light and confront. These groups are in a tizzy trying to refute Charles' claims. Every time they try, they tip their hand more. The mask slips a bit more. Ignoring a problem has never once made that problem go away.

281 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:50:03pm

re: #277 NY Nana

re: #265 albusteve

I am sooooo glad to be a non-celebrity..so glad.

It ain't worth it. And people still pay to see them, buy their albums..IMHO, 'celebrity' is a cult.

watch out...youre pretty popular round here!

282 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:51:41pm
283 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:52:07pm

Fuck all Race-based groups.
Seriously.
Stupid, outdated, lowest denominator ranting fuck-wits.
Fuck La Raza
Fuck KKK
Fuck NOI
Fuck CAIR
and Fuck Vlaams Blok

I think we can thank the divisiveness of the Left for the progression of all these groups in our world today.

284 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:52:15pm

re: #273 EC Marm

re: #260 wahabicorridor


I don't know where you got those stats, but the last time I checked, the German churches of whatever denomination were just about empty.

Figures I looked at recently from Wiki. The churches may be empty, but it was based on numbers supplied by the churches of their parishioners.


Oh, ok, I think I understand what you're missing. In Germany, churches are supported by taxes collected by the state from the churches' parishioners. If you identify yourself to the gov't as belonging to a Lutheran church, the gov't will collect a tax from you and give it to the Lutheran church.

The stats you are looking at are therefore about the ratio of people who say they belong to a given church, but not about the German population as a whole.

Which goes a long way to explaining why not a lot of Germans self-identify as belonging to any religious denomination, but doesn't explain why the churches are empty.

285 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:52:41pm

re: #264 Charles

re: #242 therewaslight

I've read anti-semetic and White Nationalist articles there...

And yet you think the 'extremist' label is unfair?

Let's see ... antisemitic and White Nationalist articles don't warrant the label 'extremist.' What sort of articles would need to be there for you to agree with that label?

They do, and they deserve that label. But the non-anti-semitic and White Nationalist articles don't warrant this label.

I accept there is a problem here and at Vdare. Race is a subject liberals or typically nice people don't touch.

But the science is done. It's now unquestionable. There are sites on the net where you can search genomes for specific genes.

We can't afford to cede the ground of race, when that ground is rising higher and higher on facts.

We have to take their future high ground away from the racists. Which means we should not demonise discussion of human genetics.

286 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:52:50pm

re: #258 Killgore Trout

re: #246 Occasional Reader

Ok, Is it fair to say he wants to see less nonwhites in Europe? We can split hairs all day but his ideology is based on race.

There has never been a Martin Luther King, Jr. in Europe. Race is everything, and they still cling to the most basic biological 19th century definition of the concept. It's all about bloodlines and regional purity. What do you think the "Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée" on the bottles of wine are all about? Much of the resistance to the EU has been based on regional separatism, itself often founded on a deep mistrust not only of other Europeans but of their own countrymen. I used to live in Franconia (not far from where some of Baconlovingkafir's relatives live) in Germany, and although the region has been part of Bavaria since 1803, I still meet people who are insulted by being called Bavarians.

As I've said before, Europe is way behind America when it comes to consciousness of the dangers of racism. In an way, our experience has allowed them an easy way of avoiding the question (they never had slavery, you see), but ultimately Americans are much more conscious of the issue than your average European.

287 EC Marm  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:52:52pm

re: #267 ploome hineni
I am supplying this link for you only. It is not directed at anyone else to read. In a book I am reading on 'the night of the broken glass' the author puts the blueprint for the holocaust and the events of that night, right here, in this book. A paraphrased excerpt from the 1543 (400 years before the Holocaust by a Catholic basher) book:

He argues that their synagogues and schools should be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them."


I think your Catholic bashing is misplaced.

288 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:53:43pm

re: #279 rappmandu

re: #269 shiplord kirel

Yeah, I was going for hyperbole. The memories and stories of our WWII vets will live far, far into the future. I don't think a bunch of Euro punks are going to wipe that out anytime soon.

I have sat down with my daughter and her new hubby and explained grampas tromp across the pacific and korea...maps, books, documents, pins and medals and pictures of thompson totin grandpa and his battle flags from saipan...everything I can think of...they asked me to

289 nolocon  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:54:03pm

re: #259 ploome hineni

re: #244 nolocon


I express great sympathy for your family.

wish I could say the same to you
then maybe you would undestand

Courtesy of the German military, my father lost much of his right leg in the Ardennes at the beginning of1945, an uncle nearly died in a prison camp, another uncle came back shell-shocked, and a first cousin died on some field in France.
Ironically, after the war, my father entered into a "handshake" business deal with a group of Jewish businessmen. They cheated him out of his life savings, probably figuring he was some Goy fool.
He didn't hate 'the Jews" because of it, though I suppose he did not miss the irony these same businessmen had all sat out the war safely in the States.
Hate is a bad thing. When a Mel Gibson sins, then makes a sincere apology, it's better for your health not to keep on hating him.

290 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:54:58pm

re: #275 therewaslight

re: #257 NoSpam


re: #250 therewaslight

re: #248 NoSpam

re: #242 therewaslight

Science does not make one an extremist.

No, but selective editing and warping of scientific research can...

Publish your own article there then.

huh?

If you think they have "selectively edited and warped scientific research."

But remember now this will take the discussion OT since I accept Vdare has publised White Nationalist and anti-semitic articles.

My argument is that's because race is a subject which interests White Nationalists and anti-semites. Merely discussing the science of genetics does not make one a white nationalist or anti-semite.

That would be a contradiction for someone like Michelle Malkin who has written there, for example.

I think they do. They trot out the 'science' when it suits them. Of course discussing genetics doesn't make somebody an extremist, but if you're using 'genetics*' to trumpet White Pride world Wide or some similar garbage, chances are you're a bit of a nutcase.


*A lot of these 'genetics' studies that say white people are smarter than other races are so filled with statistical misnomers and noise that it isn't funny...They aren't founded in any real genetic research, just surveys. And you can make a 'scientific survey' lean any way you want it to. Just ask the L^3's who run exit polls...

291 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:54:59pm

re: #282 jeppo

Those who dump all over the VB (and offer no alternative) are implicitly supporting the thoroughly corrupt, anti-American, pro-Palestinian dhimm-witted Belgian establishment

Bullshit.

292 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:55:38pm

re: #282 jeppo

Gotta love it. Fascists vs. fascists vying to out-fascist one another.

Priceless.

293 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:56:13pm

re: #282 jeppo

Those who dump all over the VB (and offer no alternative) are implicitly supporting the thoroughly corrupt, anti-American, pro-Palestinian dhimm-witted Belgian establishment. Perfectly embodied by Brussels' thuggish mayor Freddy Thielemans and his majority-Muslim socialist city councilors, they've instituted a so-called cordon sanitaire around the VB so that hundreds of democratically elected VB officials have no say in any government big or small anywhere in the country.

Anti-democratic nonsense like this would be tolerated for about two seconds in the US or anywhere else in the English-speaking world. And don't forget about the 9/11/07 Brussels police riot where Thielemans' stormtroopers attacked and brutalized suit-and-tie wearing elected officials peacefully protesting the Islamization of Europe. Now tell me, who are the real fascists?

....deleted....unbelievable

294 shiplord kirel  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:56:29pm

re: #274 lucius septimius

I guess that's the issue in a way -- when living memory fades, it becomes more difficult to retain the cultural memory. Rule of thumb: 175 years is the horizon of living memory. After that point, it is practically impossible to find someone who knew someone who was involved in a particular historical event.

I guess that explains why Muslims have forgotten what happened to the Barbary Pirates.

295 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:56:35pm

re: #254 rappmandu

Wow, these Euro folks and their supporters sure seem afraid that their movement will fail without some LGF people joining their side.

Makes me wonder.

You can say that again. It also makes me wonder -- what is making them so desperate? it suggests there might be some other reasons (reasons we're not seeing...or considering...(?))

296 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:57:11pm

Note that Belien's article for Vdare ends with this:

"Our voters deserve a democracy. Belgium refuses to grant them one; we will," Mr. Vanhecke said today. "We will establish a new party. This one Belgium will not be able to bury; it will bury Belgium."

And, in the process, the Vlaams Blok will bury mass immigration too.

Lovely rhetoric there. Sound familiar?

re: #266 zuckerlilly

Thanks for that post -- I reported it to myself.

297 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:57:12pm

re: #282 jeppo

Those who dump all over the VB (and offer no alternative) are implicitly supporting the thoroughly corrupt, anti-American, pro-Palestinian dhimm-witted Belgian establishment.

No, we're not.

And there is an alternative, one that's been voiced here many times. Put together a party that doesn't have any ties, historical or otherwise, to far-right neo-Nazi, anti-semitic groups.

To say that LGF has now become supporters of the Caliphate by raising legitimate questions about ONE Belgian separatist group defies logic and evidence.

298 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:57:19pm

re: #282 jeppo

I'm so tired of this argument. If I don't support the VB, I'm a socialist/pro-establishment/pro-big government/multiculturalist/white-hater/whatever.

I'm not. I just think the VB seem like a bunch of thugs who are barely able to contain their racist ideology.

Now, I'm not belgian, and I don't know about the belgian political structure, so I can't tell you what I would be for. But I do know what I'm against.

299 justnobody  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:57:29pm

re: #275 therewaslight

Are you also into other branches of science, or is it just "genetics"?

300 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:58:33pm

re: #282 jeppo

Now tell me, who are the real fascists?

You are! Your argument is akin to political rape and blackmail.

There is no one else, so we have to go with them and we're taking you with us whether you like it or not!

What would we do in America? We'd form another party- and that would be much more difficult to do here than it would be in europe based on the political landscape. So quit with the frickin' political blackmail.

301 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:59:40pm

re: #288 albusteve

Oral tradition is such a great way to do it! Keep the flame lit in the hearts of each generation.

302 zuckerlilly  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 3:59:43pm

Extra-parliamentary Groups

A number of militant structures and think-tanks close to the VB*) continue to foster antisemitism, among them Voorpost, which acts as a link between the VB and even more extremist groups. An action group with pagan tendencies, Voorpost was set up in 1976 by young nationalist leaders close to the French New Right (in particular GRECE – see France) and neo-Nazi organizations abroad. Voorpost was also involved in distributing publications denying crimes of the Nazi regime. In 2000/1Voorpost is run by senior members of the VB leadership, such as former Senator Roeland Raes**) (its vice-president from 1978 to February 2001) and member of parliament Francis Vanden Eynde (current vice-president of the country’s Chamber of Deputies).

Before its formation, Voorpost was part of another nationalist group, Were Di (Verbond van Nederlandse Werkgemeenschappen). Were Di was created in 1962 by former pro-Nazi collaborators, including members of the Flemish Waffen-SS and founder of the VB Karel Dillen. The theoretical works of this think-tank constituted the basis of the VB’s founding manifesto. Like the VB, Were Di aims at overthrowing the Belgian state and creating an independent Flemish state based upon a “homogeneous community” of the “white race.” Several of VB’s parliamentary members still serve on the editorial committee of Dietsland-Europa, Were Di’s monthly publication. Dietsland-Europa is a staunch defender of leading French Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson and the National Socialist (NS) heritage.

The Nationalistische Studenten Verbond (NSV)***) is an association of extreme right university students founded in 1976. A number of the VB’s leaders began their political activity in the NSV, including current leaders Philip Dewinter and Franck Van Hecke. The NSV’s emblem is the Celtic cross, adopted by the neo-Nazis. After the law against denial of the Holocaust was passed on 23 March 1995, the NJSV (the high-school branch of the NSV) distributed a “Revisionism is no crime!” sticker. The last demonstration held by NSV – in March 2001 in Antwerp – was supported by the VB.

Another youth organization, which is officially independent of the VB (but whose leaders are former heads of the VB youth organization), is the Vlaamse Jongeren Mechelen (VJM), a small skinhead group active in the town of Malines (Mechelen), which has contacts with several other neo-Nazi and antisemitic movements in Wallonia and abroad (see below).

*) Vlaams Blok = the predecessor of Vlaams Belang (same people, same platform, same ideology)
**) now Vlaams Belang
***) deWinter

303 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:00:19pm

re: #285 therewaslight

We can't afford to cede the ground of race, when that ground is rising higher and higher on facts.

I'm not sure the science of biology supports 'race'. Anybody know?

304 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:00:44pm

re: #272 storagemanager

re: #261 LSD


#225 The MEDIA is humping The DOG. Those who listen to THE WHOLE CONVERSATION will get a little different idea about Dog.

Oh really....that he admits to using the n word alot.....that he told two of his sons to break up with black women...and they did....I grew up at the time of Martin Luther King....this racist crap should get no excuse from anyone....if you think this was o.k.....look deep into your soul.

My point is that this will go nowhere. His friends -who happen to be Black, yellow, brown, and red - will all come foreward and say - "That's just the Dog"

He came from a white biker gang Convict lifestyle into the Hollywood limelight - and HE KNEW that him just being him would sink his ass his piss poor salty habits got outed by an unfriendy outsider - and it did.

Before you get all up on my ass - do a little more serious research.

(Hint- you ever hang out a few weeks with a group of salty mixed race american Police Officers, or Combat vets?)

305 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:01:14pm

re: #301 rappmandu

re: #288 albusteve

Oral tradition is such a great way to do it! Keep the flame lit in the hearts of each generation.

I've learned my lesson from the Pueblo out here in new mex...there can be no other way I'm convinced

306 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:01:17pm

re: #303 wahabicorridor

There is the human race,...thats about it.

307 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:01:46pm

re: #296 Charles


Note that Belien's article for Vdare ends with this:

"Our voters deserve a democracy. Belgium refuses to grant them one; we will," Mr. Vanhecke said today. "We will establish a new party. This one Belgium will not be able to bury; it will bury Belgium."

And, in the process, the Vlaams Blok will bury mass immigration too.

Lovely rhetoric there. Sound familiar?


Yup, sure does.

We have neo-nazi parties in America too. WE DON'T VOTE FOR THEM!

(Sam Kinison voice)

Zuckerlilly -- didn't mean to cut out your part -- good post and great nic.

308 storagemanager  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:01:57pm

Off to watch an old t.v. show....the rifleman...a God fearing man raising his son alone...and teaching him to be a good man....good night.

309 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:01:58pm

Looking at all of this I wonder sometimes if the West deserves to survive. We cannot even agree what is the greatest threat. Perhaps the deconstruction of the West is to far along to pull together and fight. Then again historically the West seems to not fight until sheer survival is at stake. This argument does seem to point to the success of secular humanists that have made racism (as long as it is practiced by whites) the greatest sin of all.

And no wonder the Islamists use the charge of racism to stop the West in its tracks, when we all know Islam is not a race, but an ideology. We seem to suck at self defense, but are given to white guilt, deserved or not, it has become the issue that divides us and insures, IMO that Islam may just win this round.

310 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:02:12pm

re: #297 lucius septimius


No.
They cant.
Times are desperate.
No time to start another party.
If they don't stop the jihadi's by Tuesday, Islam will have taken over.

311 1389  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:02:12pm

re: #260 wahabicorridor

re: #253 EC Marm
re: #231 ploome hineni
family in the death camps asshole


I am sorry to see that.

However the population in Germany is approximately 50% Catholic and 50% a combination of Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. Look at the writings of Martin Luther for the blueprint of what happened there. You know what religion he had it out for initially, don't you? And who he went after NEXT?

I don't know where you got those stats, but the last time I checked, the German churches of whatever denomination were just about empty.

Not so in Greece or Russia.

312 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:02:21pm

re: #290 NoSpam

I think they do. They trot out the 'science' when it suits them. Of course discussing genetics doesn't make somebody an extremist, but if you're using 'genetics*' to trumpet White Pride world Wide or some similar garbage, chances are you're a bit of a nutcase.

*A lot of these 'genetics' studies that say white people are smarter than other races are so filled with statistical misnomers and noise that it isn't funny...They aren't founded in any real genetic research, just surveys. And you can make a 'scientific survey' lean any way you want it to. Just ask the L^3's who run exit polls...

How are you to learn the vocabulary to fight this if you label sites that deal with this subject "hard-core" and "extremist"?

You are right to be skeptical about anyone who says there is a master race. There isn't one. Gifts and talents are spread liberally and equally among all humans. However unlike me, I suspect you could not argue the science of this with a White Nationalist head on. You'd call him or her and, by necessity, scientists who disagree with him/her extremists. What is this if not political correctness?

313 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:02:23pm

re: #298 Truumax

re: #282 jeppo

I'm so tired of this argument. If I don't support the VB, I'm a socialist/pro-establishment/pro-big government/multiculturalist/white-hater/ whatever.

I'm not. I just think the VB seem like a bunch of thugs who are barely able to contain their racist ideology.

Now, I'm not belgian, and I don't know about the belgian political structure, so I can't tell you what I would be for. But I do know what I'm against.

It's kind of amazing that no matter how often it's answered, jeppo just keeps bringing it up again.

314 1389  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:03:09pm

re: #308 storagemanager

Off to watch an old t.v. show....the rifleman...a God fearing man raising his son alone...and teaching him to be a good man....good night.

Love that show!

315 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:03:17pm

re: #306 Boondock St. Bender

re: #303 wahabicorridor

There is the human race,...thats about it.


heh. thanks.

316 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:03:23pm

Remember, folks,

The ends justify the means!

/

317 albusteve  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:04:03pm

re: #310 hous bin pharteen

re: #297 lucius septimius


No.
They cant.
Times are desperate.
No time to start another party.
If they don't stop the jihadi's by Tuesday, Islam will have taken over.

so we still have MNF that week?...whew!

318 Lauraf  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:04:31pm

re: #136 jeppo

#122 jehu

Thank you for asking for what I've been asking for since this thing began, "some alternatives". No one has offered an alternative for the anti-jihadist Belgians to support besides the VB.

Duh, how are people outside Belgium supposed to do that? Only Belgians can change existing political parties and create new ones.

319 debutaunt  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:05:13pm

313 Charles 11/02/07 4:02:23 pm reply quote report 1

re: #298 Truumax

re: #282 jeppo

I'm so tired of this argument. If I don't support the VB, I'm a socialist/pro-establishment/pro-big government/multiculturalist/white-hater/ whatever.

I'm not. I just think the VB seem like a bunch of thugs who are barely able to contain their racist ideology.

Now, I'm not belgian, and I don't know about the belgian political structure, so I can't tell you what I would be for. But I do know what I'm against.

It's kind of amazing that no matter how often it's answered, jeppo just keeps bringing it up again.


Sometime people (mainly children) keep asking the same question in hopes that the hoped for answer will bring delightfully tasting goodies.

320 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:05:17pm

re: #303 wahabicorridor

I'm not sure the science of biology supports 'race'. Anybody know?

Ask at your local forensic lab.

321 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:05:28pm

re: #310 hous bin pharteen

Damn.tuesday huh...dude i got things to do tuesday,ask if they'll hold off till at least,..say thursday,yeah thursday.

322 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:06:40pm

re: #311 1389

Not so in Greece or Russia.

I know after the wall fell church attendance in Russia increased, but I'd sure like to know about the demographics of that. Elderly? Women?

Greece - they remind me of the Italians that way! LOL!

323 1389  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:06:45pm

re: #300 Sharmuta

re: #282 jeppo

Now tell me, who are the real fascists?

You are! Your argument is akin to political rape and blackmail.

There is no one else, so we have to go with them and we're taking you with us whether you like it or not!

What would we do in America? We'd form another party- and that would be much more difficult to do here than it would be in europe based on the political landscape. So quit with the frickin' political blackmail.

Looks as though somebody IS going to have to start a new, nonracist, anti-Islamist party in Flanders, or maybe in the EU as a whole. Any Lizardoids in Europe up for the task?

324 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:06:53pm

re: #303 wahabicorridor

re: #285 therewaslight


We can't afford to cede the ground of race, when that ground is rising higher and higher on facts.

I'm not sure the science of biology supports 'race'. Anybody know?


It really doesn't. The 'genetic studies' based on race are usually surveys, not genetic studies. And surveys are the bastard child of the scientific world. Always take them with a small truckload of salt.

Real genetics is closer to saying there is no such thing as 'race,' unless you count the human race...

325 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:06:55pm

re: #309 jehu

Looking at all of this I wonder sometimes if the West deserves to survive. We cannot even agree what is the greatest threat. Perhaps the deconstruction of the West is to far along to pull together and fight. Then again historically the West seems to not fight until sheer survival is at stake. This argument does seem to point to the success of secular humanists that have made racism (as long as it is practiced by whites) the greatest sin of all.

And no wonder the Islamists use the charge of racism to stop the West in its tracks, when we all know Islam is not a race, but an ideology. We seem to suck at self defense, but are given to white guilt, deserved or not, it has become the issue that divides us and insures, IMO that Islam may just win this round.

The west deserves to survive because, in the entire history of mankind, no other civilization has placed human freedom and the dignity and value of the individual at the center of its definition of civilization. Of all the civilization that have stood upon this earth since the ice-sheets retreated and the mastodons croaked, only that which arose in the west has had the courage to even suggest that man is free and can be trusted to think for himself.

(if Mandy's around -- generic "man" being used here; no offense)

326 1389  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:07:43pm

re: #322 wahabicorridor

re: #311 1389

Not so in Greece or Russia.

I know after the wall fell church attendance in Russia increased, but I'd sure like to know about the demographics of that. Elderly? Women?

Greece - they remind me of the Italians that way! LOL!

Not just elderly and women in Russia. Young people too. BTW, the Orthodox Christian faith appeals at least as much to men as it does to women.

327 justnobody  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:07:50pm

re: #303 wahabicorridor

The study of the human genome is at such a primitive stage, that it's still learning the differences between the genome of a white man and that of an asparagus. Studying "race" by genomic means is a huge waste of time.

328 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:07:57pm

re: #320 therewaslight

re: #303 wahabicorridor

I'm not sure the science of biology supports 'race'. Anybody know?

Ask at your local forensic lab.


I'd rather ask an anthropologist.

329 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:08:31pm

re: #317 albusteve

Yes, but the week after, the game is the Detroit Mohammed's vs the San Francisco Marxists.

I think the jerseys go on sale Wednesday.

Since beer will be outlawed, I am not sure what would go good with hot wings.
Goats milk?

The Dallas game will be interesting.
Hate to picture the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders in burques.
I mean, how are they going to do those high kicks?

330 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:08:59pm

re: #309 jehu

You're right.

I quit.

/

331 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:09:50pm

re: #313 Charles

I wrote a post in an earlier thread where I said that the people who reason this way are intellectual defeatists. They simply don't believe that they can win the war of ideas.

That tells me a lot about how weak their convictions actually are.

332 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:11:32pm

re: #310 hous bin pharteen

re: #297 lucius septimius


No.
They cant.
Times are desperate.
No time to start another party.
If they don't stop the jihadi's by Tuesday, Islam will have taken over.

OK, lots of other people have already responded. Tuesday? C'mon. If it's that late already, then it's too late, and VB and other parties have obviously failed, despite their willingness to shake hands with the devil. So long as the Caliphate isn't here now then there is still time.

Panic is not an excuse.

333 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:12:10pm

re: #330 rappmandu

re: #309 jehu

You're right.

I quit.

/

LOL! -- finally a laugh out of this thread.

334 1389  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:12:15pm

re: #239 NoSpam

re: #224 nolocon

re: #198 ploome hineni

re: #193 storagemanager


Dog is no better than Mel Gibson....this whole thread is about the danger...racist hate....just as bad as Islamic hate...you see...hate is just hate.


I will wait to see the Catholic church and Catholics defend Dog


Yikes. Who would've figured a Dog thread takes a sharp turn into a Bigotry Against Catholics theme?BTW ... Mel Gibson spews some garbage while stumbling drunk, and later spends months apologizing repeatedly and profusely.
I suspect that people still beating that story have a lot more baggage in their agenda than his drunken tirade.


This also begs the question, who gives a damn what either Dog OR mel Gibson say...Certainly not me.

If we ignore them, they usually go away...

They don't have anything to do with the danger of expansionist Islam.

335 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:12:36pm
336 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:13:02pm

re: #312 therewaslight

re: #290 NoSpam

I think they do. They trot out the 'science' when it suits them. Of course discussing genetics doesn't make somebody an extremist, but if you're using 'genetics*' to trumpet White Pride world Wide or some similar garbage, chances are you're a bit of a nutcase.

*A lot of these 'genetics' studies that say white people are smarter than other races are so filled with statistical misnomers and noise that it isn't funny...They aren't founded in any real genetic research, just surveys. And you can make a 'scientific survey' lean any way you want it to. Just ask the L^3's who run exit polls...

How are you to learn the vocabulary to fight this if you label sites that deal with this subject "hard-core" and "extremist"?

You are right to be skeptical about anyone who says there is a master race. There isn't one. Gifts and talents are spread liberally and equally among all humans. However unlike me, I suspect you could not argue the science of this with a White Nationalist head on. You'd call him or her and, by necessity, scientists who disagree with him/her extremists. What is this if not political correctness?


No, I would call them ignorant for their deliberate misrepresentation of facts.

I call them extremists becase of the idealology they are pushing, using their fake science as a means to push that drivel. That's the difference between innocent ignorance (somebody who just doesn't know any better) and willful ignorance. Extremists are pretty much by definition WILLFULLY IGNORANT of any inconvenient facts that happen to get in their way.

When the real facts are out there for everyone to see, but you ignore them anyway, no amount of debate will convince you of the truth.

337 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:13:02pm

re: #328 wahabicorridor

Don't trust anthropologists on this one. 90% of them are dogmatic Marxists.

338 yavanna  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:13:09pm

at bottom of article at Vdare site :

Paul Belien [email him] is a Flemish historian and journalist. His wife, Alexandra Colen, is a member of the Belgian House of Representatives for the Vlaams Blok

339 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:13:23pm

re: #332 lucius septimius

It is much easier to race headlong into the arms of nutcases.

340 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:13:29pm

re: #324 NoSpam

It really doesn't. The 'genetic studies' based on race are usually surveys, not genetic studies. And surveys are the bastard child of the scientific world. Always take them with a small truckload of salt.

That's what I thought, but what do I know. Besides, you know that whole molecular clock thing that can show the time it took for homo sapiens to evolve from some ape? Yet the genetic differences between modern man and chimps are few and far between. So, other than some minor physical characteristics like skin color I don't know where the biology to support the social construct we term 'race' would come from.

341 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:13:59pm

re: #334 1389

OT -- nic -- Field of Blackbirds, correct?

342 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:15:11pm

re: #309 jehu


I'm a warrior type. It ain't over until it's over, they say.

The west DOES deserve to survive. People have had it too good in the USA and have lost their stomach for fighting. History is filled with fights for survival.

Your view is a bit fatalistic.

Islam will not win.

The ideology that wins depends on which side has more handwringers and fence sitters and less fighters.

343 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:15:11pm

re: #339 hous bin pharteen

Confused -- that was sarc, no? The first post, I mean?

344 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:15:46pm

re: #309 jehu

And no wonder the Islamists use the charge of racism to stop the West in its tracks, when we all know Islam is not a race, but an ideology. We seem to suck at self defense, but are given to white guilt, deserved or not, it has become the issue that divides us and insures, IMO that Islam may just win this round.


Sorry. You're way off.
You seem to possibly have a problem with calling Wrong, Wrong.
Have you ever spent 30 min. at a neo-nazi rally?
It's enough to make you puke.
(Unless you agree with it.)

If not wanting to tolerate a group whose leadership rose from Hitlers SS, (Much like CAIR rose from Hamas), is "white guilt", I'll have to live with the "guilt" and keep fighting Islamofascists - and Eurofascists if need be ...

345 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:16:01pm

re: #335 jeppo

That's what I can't get behind. When you support the VB with the notion that "Belgium is not America", you're kinda implying "and it never will be". To me that feels like you've already given up.

346 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:16:16pm

re: #342 Highrise

Go person!

(trying to avoid gendered language)

347 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:16:19pm

re: #335 jeppo

You would do much better to concretely respond to what charles(trumaxx,babba,etc.)have uncovered about the evidence of w/s nazi leanings,then saying"c'mon be nice...we'll be your freinds...for now"

348 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:16:23pm

re: #324 NoSpam


It really doesn't. The 'genetic studies' based on race are usually surveys, not genetic studies. And surveys are the bastard child of the scientific world. Always take them with a small truckload of salt.

Real genetics is closer to saying there is no such thing as 'race,' unless you count the human race...

You're just going to throw your weapons, any and all chance you have to defend yourself, overboard?

You're showing tremendous ignorance to just do the verbal equivalent of booting the subject under the rug.

Even the PC New York Times regularly publishes scientific articles on race. I accept that most here don't read the New York Times for other reasons...

But seriously. The subject's not going to go away.

Human behaviour is determined by genetics and environment; and a portion of the genetic is input is from "race" - instead of race you might prefer the anodyne term "population cluster."

349 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:16:59pm

re: #335 jeppo

Belgium is not America. Free speech and the democratic process are severely limited. How about directing some of your rage at the Leftist-Islamist alliance in Brussels, who hate your guts, instead of the VB, who don't?

Oh and can someone please repeat that hilarious 9/11/07 conspiracy theory, whereas the VB wanted to get beaten up by the cops to attract sympathy for themselves. I guess Frank Vanhecke's balls are still paying for that scam, eh?


You don't appear to be in this for answers to the problem.
....just say'n...

350 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:17:20pm

re: #346 lucius septimius

HA!

351 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:17:31pm

re: #337 lucius septimius

Don't trust anthropologists on this one. 90% of them are dogmatic Marxists.


Oh poop!

I wanted to be a physical anthropologist for the longest time.

Then I discovered Bloomingdale's.

Good thing, too. I had the misfortune to meet Donald Johannson (of "Lucy' fame). What an insufferable, arrogant SOB.

352 debutaunt  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:17:38pm

#346 lucius septimius 11/02/07 4:16:16 pm reply quote report 0

re: #342 Highrise

Go person!

(trying to avoid gendered language)


Gender away....

353 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:18:32pm

re: #335 jeppo

Belgium is not America.

Thank God!

354 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:19:02pm

re: #340 wahabicorridor

I agree. (hmmm...I've noticed a Wiki article in dire need of an edit...) anyway, far too much of the "I.Q" "studies" attempting to draw links to some genetic component are flawed (falls into the category of "pseudo-science"). the American Psychological Assiociation put together (in response to The Bell Curve) a PDF file -- what's known, what's unknown.
Here's the link to the PDF file (for anyone who's interested):

[Link: www.gifted.uconn.edu...]

355 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:19:27pm

re: #353 Sharmuta

re: #335 jeppo


Belgium is not America.

Thank God!

...lol...

356 rightymouse  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:20:16pm

#335 jeppo

Belgium is not America. Free speech and the democratic process are severely limited. How about directing some of your rage at the Leftist-Islamist alliance in Brussels, who hate your guts, instead of the VB, who don't?

Who exactly helped create this state of affairs in Belgium? Do you get to vote? If so, you have noone but yourself to blame.

357 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:20:17pm

re: #352 debutaunt

#346 lucius septimius 11/02/07 4:16:16 pm reply quote report 0

re: #342 Highrise

Go person!

(trying to avoid gendered language)


Gender away....

I would, but my wife if the jealous type.

358 debutaunt  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:20:20pm

#353 Sharmuta 11/02/07 4:18:32 pm reply quote report 1

re: #335 jeppo

Belgium is not America.

Thank God!


The best Belgium had to offer was Audrey Hepburn.

359 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:20:53pm

re: #335 jeppo

Why on earth do you think a country that gave so much in blood and treasure to defeat the Nazi's would just jump in bed with people with the same ideas rolling around their head?

If the anti-jihadis in the US get in bed with white supremacists in Europe, guess what? IT IS OVER.
There is no way any arguments against the Jihad would make any headway after that in the US. We in the US would be finished.
So not only have you lost Europe, you just lost the United States as an ally.
Boy, that is one hell of a good plan!

360 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:21:14pm

re: #354 J.S.


Thank you very much! Bookmarked and printing now............

361 debutaunt  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:21:46pm

re: #357 lucius septimius
357 lucius septimius 11/02/07 4:20:17 pm reply quote report 0

re: #352 debutaunt

#346 lucius septimius 11/02/07 4:16:16 pm reply quote report 0

re: #342 Highrise

Go person!

(trying to avoid gendered language)


Gender away....

I would, but my wife if the jealous type.


Aha! A tiny slip of the pen.

362 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:22:50pm

re: #348 therewaslight

Virtually the entire scientific (that's modern-day) community does not accept the term "race" (if/when used) as a descriptor based on "genetics." Only pseudo-scientists use the term in this way. The term "race" is used by sociologists and some others (as a category).

363 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:23:32pm

Is it possible that many of us here at LGF are operating from an idealogical perspective that is a luxury only afforded to bystanders? I have seen suggestions that the Belgians need to start another Political Party. Is that so easy to do? It takes decades, not years. Even here in America we desperately need another party, good luck getting one started, history and inertia are against you.

From what some of the posters are saying the VB party has been ostracized and fought bitterly against by the Socialists, but also has deep ties to neo-nazis. I think this demand for purity is simply a luxury only those arguing academically can afford. This being Europe you may not be able to get a political party free of racial themes, even racism.

I don't think many here are being realistic, and perhaps a little dogmatic. It is like what is taking place in the GOP. We were all about a pure conservative and thought we had one in Bush Jr. Turns out we did not, not even close...huge government expansion, constant working with outright socialists like Kennedy or ignoring of the will of the people regarding immigration.

So now I think we are growing up a little and can accept a Giuliani why? Because the real world demands some pretty stinky compromises. And all of us that are conservative, particularly social conservatives look at Giuliani and ask the one important question. Will he vigorously defend American and take on the Jihadists. Sometimes that is all you can ask for...just one thing.

364 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:23:51pm

re: #343 lucius septimius
Huh.
You lost me there.

I mean it is much easier for them just to run into the nut cases arms than start another party or influence another one.
It is always harder to do what is right than to do what is expedient.

365 TMK  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:24:03pm

So, allow me to understand the new LGF form of logic:

1) Giuliani supports abortion. However, we should get over it and support him *because* he opposes muslim terrorists.

2) Belien supports white supremacy. Therefore, Belgians should be disgusted and not support him *despite* his opposing muslim terrorists.

No dice Charles. It's obvious you care more about Jewish Holocaust denial than the new holocaust of babies being mutilated and poisoned to death, but if opposing muslim terrorists isn't a good enough reason for you to get behind their favorite racist, it will never be enough for me to support your favorite baby-killer.

366 rightymouse  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:24:34pm

#335 jeppo

Belgium is not America

No kidding. But then, I suspect Belgium thinks it's superior to America.

367 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:25:36pm

re: #351 wahabicorridor

I was interested in the same thing for a while -- briefly studied with one of Jane Goodall's students. I still have a cast of an Australopithecus Afarensis in my office I made back in those days.

Unfortunately, while there are some very smart people in the field, the rank and file are dogmatic and not terribly imaginative.

368 Lauraf  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:25:47pm

re: #282 jeppo

Those who dump all over the VB (and offer no alternative) are implicitly supporting the thoroughly corrupt, anti-American, pro-Palestinian dhimm-witted Belgian establishment.

Do you blush when you write such unadulterated BS? How can people who are NOT Belgians provide you with a Belgian alternative? Cut with the stupid strawman arguments.

369 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:26:12pm

jeppo,

Why don't you go visit an American war cemetery in Belgium and spend some time there in reflection. Perhaps you'll find some inspiration there, too.

370 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:26:17pm

re: #353 Sharmuta

re: #335 jeppo


Belgium is not America.

Thank God!

I'm glad I live in a place where it is not considered 'normal' to put mayo on fries...

371 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:26:33pm

re: #364 hous bin pharteen

Gotcha -- suddenly got confused (too much gin)

372 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:27:10pm

re: #363 jehu

I don't think the comparison is Hilary vs Rudy.
It is Hilary vs David Duke.

373 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:28:13pm

re: #365 TMK

Giuliani supports abortion. However, we should get over it and support him

I don't know who Charles supports, if anyone, so I can't address that.
But you do understand that whoever is elected president, it will not change the fact of abortion? Even if some day SCOTUS overturned Roe, the issue would simply devolve to the states.

374 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:28:37pm
375 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:29:24pm

re: #365 TMK

NEO-NAZI TIES! He supports people with NEO-NAZI TIES! Jesus christ, the comparison between Giuliani and Belien is retarded on so many levels.

376 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:29:29pm

re: #363 jehu

Perhaps. However, I believe many folks here have been around the block (and the world) enough times to speak from experience, not academic luxury.

377 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:29:38pm

re: #363 jehu

Sorry- I oppose fascism of any stripe.

I will not betray my family who fought to remove it from europe.

I will not support a european party that wants to grant full amnesty to nazi collaborators.

Because the real world demands some pretty stinky compromises.

That's what the opportunists are banking on.

378 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:30:23pm

re: #348 therewaslight

re: #324 NoSpam


It really doesn't. The 'genetic studies' based on race are usually surveys, not genetic studies. And surveys are the bastard child of the scientific world. Always take them with a small truckload of salt.

Real genetics is closer to saying there is no such thing as 'race,' unless you count the human race...

You're just going to throw your weapons, any and all chance you have to defend yourself, overboard?

You're showing tremendous ignorance to just do the verbal equivalent of booting the subject under the rug.

Even the PC New York Times regularly publishes scientific articles on race. I accept that most here don't read the New York Times for other reasons...

But seriously. The subject's not going to go away.

Human behaviour is determined by genetics and environment; and a portion of the genetic is input is from "race" - instead of race you might prefer the anodyne term "population cluster."

I'm not just 'bootsing the subject under the rug' or 'throwing away my weapons' because I call a lunatic fringe group what it is.

If we ignore these ignorant racemongering crazies, they will take their crazy someplace else, and stop leaving steaming piles of it in my backyard.

379 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:30:54pm
380 Render  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:31:05pm

Are Jews supposed to decide between neo-nazi's and Islamofascist's as to which is the greater threat?

They are both equally the greater threat.

REGARDLESS,
R

381 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:31:29pm

re: #363 jehu

I think this demand for purity is simply a luxury only those arguing academically can afford.


I don't care who Belgians vote for, this really isn't about local Belgian politics. These people can't be allowed to participate in anti-Jihad conferences because they taint the whole thing.

382 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:31:32pm

re: #363 jehu

So now I think we are growing up a little and can accept a Giuliani why? Because the real world demands some pretty stinky compromises. And all of us that are conservative, particularly social conservatives look at Giuliani and ask the one important question. Will he vigorously defend American and take on the Jihadists. Sometimes that is all you can ask for...just one thing.

I understand what you're saying, but you seem to be willing to give up basic principles out of a feeling of desperation. We ain't anywhere near that point ...

383 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:31:35pm

re: #377 Sharmuta


Because the real world demands some pretty stinky compromises.

That's what the opportunists are banking on.

Well said.

384 Lauraf  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:32:02pm

re: #303 wahabicorridor

re: #285 therewaslight


We can't afford to cede the ground of race, when that ground is rising higher and higher on facts.

I'm not sure the science of biology supports 'race'. Anybody know?

For the most part, no, it doesn't. Biologists generally think in terms of "populations", which are genetically "functional" groups with a historic basis. The 'races' we talk about are largely social constructions.

385 Anthony (Los Angeles)  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:32:19pm

What a disappointment this has been. I used to think of Brussels Journal as a reasonable, if hard-core anti-jihadist site. But after this? If it's a choice between trusting the likes of Bruce Bawer and Ayaan Hirsi Ali on the one hand, and DeWinter and Belien on the other, well ....

It's a very easy choice.

386 rightymouse  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:32:51pm

#374 jeppo

Hey, guess what? It already exists and it's called the Vlaams Belang.

Hey, guess what? Back in 1998 Chavez promised that he would not stay in power more than 5 years, would not nationalize any business, and called Cuba’s government a dictatorship.

387 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:33:25pm
re: #363 jehu

So now I think we are growing up a little and can accept a Giuliani why? Because the real world demands some pretty stinky compromises. And all of us that are conservative, particularly social conservatives look at Giuliani and ask the one important question. Will he vigorously defend American and take on the Jihadists. Sometimes that is all you can ask for...just one thing.

David Duke is a BIG FAN of Vlaams Blok ... nuff said'

388 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:33:53pm

re: #374 jeppo

except that they're not "anti-islamist" per se, they're "anti-immigrant".

If a party like that were to come to power here in Sweden (like the SD, for example), I know that some of my best friends would no longer be safe. That's a constant reminder of how evil the concept of racial purity is.

389 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:34:31pm

re: #386 rightymouse

#374 jeppo


Hey, guess what? It already exists and it's called the Vlaams Belang.

Hey, guess what? Back in 1998 Chavez promised that he would not stay in power more than 5 years, would not nationalize any business, and called Cuba’s government a dictatorship.

OUCH!

390 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:34:46pm

re: #367 lucius septimius

re: #351 wahabicorridor

I was interested in the same thing for a while -- briefly studied with one of Jane Goodall's students. I still have a cast of an Australopithecus Afarensis in my office I made back in those days.

Unfortunately, while there are some very smart people in the field, the rank and file are dogmatic and not terribly imaginative.


That's it. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY IT! My jealously knows no bounds.

Dammit.

Does the name Napoleon Chagnon ring a bell? He was really full of himself too. I was working at the Comp(utation) Center at Penn State one night. The (public) phone on the wall rang while I was walking by, so according to the social norms there, I answered it. Someone asked for him. He was there, I had seen him earlier. Again, according to the social norm, I popped my head around the corner and said, "Chagnon, phone". He looked up and said "Doctor Chagnon".

So I walked back to the phone and said, "Sorry, no one here by that name" and hung up.

He was standing right behind me, his face was beet red.

He was very nice to me after that. And his grad students were terrific.

391 Lauraf  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:36:06pm

re: #348 therewaslight

re: #324 NoSpam

Human behaviour is determined by genetics and environment; and a portion of the genetic is input is from "race" - instead of race you might prefer the anodyne term "population cluster."

What kind of human behavior are you talking about - a preference for tortillas instead of bread, conservatism vs liberalism? Sure would like to read the research you're referring to, if you could point the way, because it sounds like a load of malarkey.

392 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:36:12pm

re: #362 J.S.

re: #348 therewaslight

Virtually the entire scientific (that's modern-day) community does not accept the term "race" (if/when used) as a descriptor based on "genetics." Only pseudo-scientists use the term in this way. The term "race" is used by sociologists and some others (as a category).

I wouldn't use the term "race" without the qualification that in nature there are no absolute boundaries where one "race" begins and another ends.

The boundaries are not completely arbitrary though, just like it's not completely arbitrary that I'm more closely related to my family than I am to my neighbours.

You are wrong the term race is not used by scientists.

"Race" is used in science, as an accepted, well-known shorthand on which groups have, rightly or wrongly, been catagorised. So you'll find articles in Nature and Science which use the word "race."

Consensus is never a good substitue for evidence. If you find yourself arguing from a consensus chances are you don't know what you're talking about.

Galileo went against the scientific consensus and was proved correct. Does not always hold though; no amount of concensus makes gravity go upwards, or Islam the "religion of peace."

393 find your Violent Jihadi on Ebay!  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:36:21pm

re: #122 jehu

I read the article by Paul Belien that you linked to Charles and I cannot see anything racist in the article, in fact I find it well written, well linked and informative on the fight for survival for freedom in Belgium. If others have linked to the article for their purposes, I am sure that has been done to you numerous times.

What is this all about? You have been writing about this for several days. Are we demanding a purity from the Belgians in fighting Islamo-facism that we will never achieve here either? Why are we (you) seeming so ready to label a major political movement racist that is probably the only and last hope for the Belgians? Can you do a thumbnail sketch of all of this, sort of summarize the players, the dangers you see, and maybe some alternatives, or what you would hope to see in their fight for freedom?

I'm lost as to why this post has a -5 score. I have exactly the same questions, and I am and have always been a strong LGF supporter and well-informed daily reader.

394 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:37:21pm

re: #390 wahabicorridor

re: #367 lucius septimius


re: #351 wahabicorridor

I was interested in the same thing for a while -- briefly studied with one of Jane Goodall's students. I still have a cast of an Australopithecus Afarensis in my office I made back in those days.

Unfortunately, while there are some very smart people in the field, the rank and file are dogmatic and not terribly imaginative.


That's it. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY IT! My jealously knows no bounds.

Dammit.

Does the name Napoleon Chagnon ring a bell? He was really full of himself too. I was working at the Comp(utation) Center at Penn State one night. The (public) phone on the wall rang while I was walking by, so according to the social norms there, I answered it. Someone asked for him. He was there, I had seen him earlier. Again, according to the social norm, I popped my head around the corner and said, "Chagnon, phone". He looked up and said "Doctor Chagnon".

So I walked back to the phone and said, "Sorry, no one here by that name" and hung up.

He was standing right behind me, his face was beet red.

He was very nice to me after that. And his grad students were terrific.

Doctor. DOCTOR Evil. I didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called 'mister,' thank you very much.

395 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:38:13pm

re: #386 rightymouse

Hey, guess what? Back in 1998 Chavez promised that he would not stay in power more than 5 years, would not nationalize any business, and called Cuba’s government a dictatorship.

Ha! keeper!

396 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:38:17pm

re: #391 Lauraf

re: #348 therewaslight


re: #324 NoSpam

Human behaviour is determined by genetics and environment; and a portion of the genetic is input is from "race" - instead of race you might prefer the anodyne term "population cluster."


What kind of human behavior are you talking about - a preference for tortillas instead of bread, conservatism vs liberalism? Sure would like to read the research you're referring to, if you could point the way, because it sounds like a load of malarkey.

It is. It's statistics and cultural fluff. Not genetics.

397 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:38:26pm

Look at Nepal.

Most people opposed absolute monarchy. The Maoists came around promising to overthrow the king. Many foolishly aligned themselves with them in political marriages of convenience, thinking they could deal with the Maoists after eliminating the king.

Now, they deeply regret their Devil's Bargain, and this month's constituent assembly elections have been canceled due to Maoist ultimatums and threats to resume violence if their demands aren't met.

398 Lauraf  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:38:40pm

re: #359 hous bin pharteen

re: #335 jeppo

Why on earth do you think a country that gave so much in blood and treasure to defeat the Nazi's would just jump in bed with people with the same ideas rolling around their head?

If the anti-jihadis in the US get in bed with white supremacists in Europe, guess what? IT IS OVER.
There is no way any arguments against the Jihad would make any headway after that in the US. We in the US would be finished.
So not only have you lost Europe, you just lost the United States as an ally.
Boy, that is one hell of a good plan!

Well said. The European supporters of these nazis and nazoids really don't get it.

399 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:40:02pm

re: #374 jeppo

#345 Truumax

I wish, we probably all wish that Belgium was more like America (definitely not the other way around). So let's find a political party that's pro-American, pro-Israeli, pro-free enterprise, pro-free speech, pro-family values, anti-Islamist, anti-EU, and generally much more conservative than anything on the scene right now.

Hey, guess what? It already exists and it's called the Vlaams Belang.

You left out pro-white..

400 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:40:14pm

re: #361 debutaunt

re: #357 lucius septimius
357 lucius septimius 11/02/07 4:20:17 pm reply quote report 0

re: #352 debutaunt

#346 lucius septimius 11/02/07 4:16:16 pm reply quote report 0

re: #342 Highrise

Go person!

(trying to avoid gendered language)


Gender away....

I would, but my wife if the jealous type.


Aha! A tiny slip of the pen.

Hard to concentrate in the presence of Lizard Loveliness.

If I did not appreciate the fairer sex, my bride would think I was sick.

And she'd be correct.

401 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:40:16pm

LSD 344

Sorry. You're way off.
You seem to possibly have a problem with calling Wrong, Wrong.
Have you ever spent 30 min. at a neo-nazi rally?
It's enough to make you puke.
(Unless you agree with it.)

If not wanting to tolerate a group whose leadership rose from Hitlers SS, (Much like CAIR rose from Hamas), is "white guilt", I'll have to live with the "guilt" and keep fighting Islamofascists - and Eurofascists if need be ...

What bothers me is the ready label of "racists," for a political party that had 800,000 votes in a small country. Are they all racists? Or is it some of the leadership, that is not clear to me. This is a blog and unfortunately they have a tendency to group think. I have been here before and it is easy to go with the tide. I have legitimate questions, including is some of this professional jealousy? A blog war signifying nothing? Or has Charles uncovered a real stinker?

I see people jumping all over some posters that are defending to some degree this party, with some reasonable arguments IMO. And to measure Belgian politics with an American yard stick seems regional at best and arrogant at worst. Perhaps the attention of people that care for the survival of Belgium and Europe can help in some way, but I do not see anything productive in yelling racist to a large group of people that may have found the only way at this time of fighting the double threat of Islamification and Crazed Socialists.

I can't stand neo-nazi skinheads to me they are vermin. If this party is wedded to them with no chance of reform, then I will echo the sentiments of many here...the hell with them, and probably the hell with Belgium. But I am not ready to make that pronouncement at this time. Neither am I ready to arrogantly dismiss the Belgians and demand they get their shit together and found a political party that pleases all my American sensitivities, I find that arrogant and condescending.

402 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:40:27pm

re: #392 therewaslight

One more time -- the term "race" if you are attempting to use this term to refer to some "genetic" components -- No -- geneticists do not use the term "race" when describing human beings. Unless, of course, you happen to be reading a pseudo-scientific article. Yes, you will find the term "race" when used as a sociological category or as a sociological concept. (no biological "reality.")

403 Beagle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:41:10pm

I'm unclear where people stand on banning political parties, restricting their assembly, arresting them for speech, and charging people in court for "racism."

Speaking of keeping people safe.

404 neocon hippie  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:41:30pm

re: #283 LSD

Fuck all Race-based groups.
Seriously.
Stupid, outdated, lowest denominator ranting fuck-wits.
Fuck La Raza
Fuck KKK
Fuck NOI
Fuck CAIR
and Fuck Vlaams Blok

I think we can thank the divisiveness of the Left for the progression of all these groups in our world today.

CAIR is not a race-based group, since Islam is not a race as we all know, but fuck 'em nevertheless.

and fuck Vlaams Belang, the successor to Vlaams Blok.

405 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:41:53pm

re: #397 rappmandu

Iran would be another good example- many groups formed a coalition to oppose the shaw thinking they could get their way once the objective was accomplished. Iranian secularists learned the hard way- a deal with the lesser devil is still a deal with the devil.

406 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:42:56pm

Sociologists are not typically categorized as "hard" scientists -- they are classed as "soft"...(some don't even wish to call sociologists "scientists" -- but, that's another matter/topic.)

407 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:42:56pm

re: #394 NoSpam

I didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called 'mister,' thank you very much.

A Ph.D. is not an M.D.

But the social norm at that place was last name only. For everyone. I worked there for 3 years and some people never knew what my first name is.

408 ajackson  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:43:08pm

Any political organization or movement has to periodically "take out the garbage". Let me be explicit about what that means: the group has to periodically tell some sub-group: "While we all subscribe to some some common goals - you are batshit crazy. Get the hell out, you are not welcome here".

Failure to "take out the garbage" will weaken a political organization or movement, and can lead to takeover by extremists.

William F. Buckley rid the conservative movement in the mid-1960's of the John Birchers and saved it from oblivion. The left has failed to do this and is in danger of being taken over by the Move-on / KOSsack / Truther / Code Pink crowd. Let's not make the same mistake as the left.

409 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:43:28pm

re: #405 Sharmuta

re: #397 rappmandu

Iran would be another good example- many groups formed a coalition to oppose the shaw thinking they could get their way once the objective was accomplished. Iranian secularists learned the hard way- a deal with the lesser devil is still a deal with the devil.

He takes many forms, but Stan's still Stan, regardless of what suit he's wearing.

410 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:44:44pm

re: #392 therewaslight

re: #362 J.S.


re: #348 therewaslight

Virtually the entire scientific (that's modern-day) community does not accept the term "race" (if/when used) as a descriptor based on "genetics." Only pseudo-scientists use the term in this way. The term "race" is used by sociologists and some others (as a category).


I wouldn't use the term "race" without the qualification that in nature there are no absolute boundaries where one "race" begins and another ends.

The boundaries are not completely arbitrary though, just like it's not completely arbitrary that I'm more closely related to my family than I am to my neighbours.

You are wrong the term race is not used by scientists.

"Race" is used in science, as an accepted, well-known shorthand on which groups have, rightly or wrongly, been catagorised. So you'll find articles in Nature and Science which use the word "race."

Consensus is never a good substitue for evidence. If you find yourself arguing from a consensus chances are you don't know what you're talking about.

Galileo went against the scientific consensus and was proved correct. Does not always hold though; no amount of concensus makes gravity go upwards, or Islam the "religion of peace."


No, consensus is not a substitute for evidence. But in this case there is evidence, or more aptly a lack thereof. There is really nothing that shows a genetic component to 'race' aside from trivial phenotypic traits (eye color, skin tone, etc, which are meaningless insofar as our minds go)

Racial studies are based on cultural and statistical bunk.

And Science and Nature are sadly going the way of Scientific American, which is to say into the toilet bowl of political correctness. The peer review system is garbage. All you have to do is find someone willing to sign off on your work and you're in. It's not a serious review, and it doesn't check scientific fact.

411 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:44:52pm

re: #407 wahabicorridor

A Ph.D. is not an M.D. True, but different areas of the country have different traditions on that. In the south, it's Doctor; in the north it's Mister or Professor. I don't care so long as they don't call me something ugly.

412 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:45:04pm

re: #401 jehu

Take a half hour and listen to their leader for yourself.

Seriously.

413 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:45:33pm

re: #412 Sharmuta

re: #401 jehu

Take a half hour and listen to their leader for yourself.

Seriously.

Uh, huh. Figure it out, dude.

414 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:46:19pm

re: #412 Sharmuta

Later -- keep up the fight.

415 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:46:38pm

re: #401 jehu

I can't stand neo-nazi skinheads to me they are vermin. If this party is wedded to them with no chance of reform, then I will echo the sentiments of many here...the hell with them, and probably the hell with Belgium. But I am not ready to make that pronouncement at this time. Neither am I ready to arrogantly dismiss the Belgians and demand they get their shit together and found a political party that pleases all my American sensitivities, I find that arrogant and condescending.


I expected a different response from someone who has admitted that they haven't had the time to read the plethora of threads on the damning evidence.

I think you are making many assumptions about posters here when they have done the reading themselves.

416 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:46:45pm

re: #414 lucius septimius

Have a good one!

417 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:46:56pm

re: #401 jehu

LSD 344

Sorry. You're way off.
You seem to possibly have a problem with calling Wrong, Wrong.
Have you ever spent 30 min. at a neo-nazi rally?
It's enough to make you puke.
(Unless you agree with it.)

If not wanting to tolerate a group whose leadership rose from Hitlers SS, (Much like CAIR rose from Hamas), is "white guilt", I'll have to live with the "guilt" and keep fighting Islamofascists - and Eurofascists if need be ...

What bothers me is the ready label of "racists," for a political party that had 800,000 votes in a small country. Are they all racists? Or is it some of the leadership, that is not clear to me. This is a blog and unfortunately they have a tendency to group think. I have been here before and it is easy to go with the tide. I have legitimate questions, including is some of this professional jealousy? A blog war signifying nothing? Or has Charles uncovered a real stinker?

I see people jumping all over some posters that are defending to some degree this party, with some reasonable arguments IMO. And to measure Belgian politics with an American yard stick seems regional at best and arrogant at worst. Perhaps the attention of people that care for the survival of Belgium and Europe can help in some way, but I do not see anything productive in yelling racist to a large group of people that may have found the only way at this time of fighting the double threat of Islamification and Crazed Socialists.

I can't stand neo-nazi skinheads to me they are vermin. If this party is wedded to them with no chance of reform, then I will echo the sentiments of many here...the hell with them, and probably the hell with Belgium. But I am not ready to make that pronouncement at this time. Neither am I ready to arrogantly dismiss the Belgians and demand they get their shit together and found a political party that pleases all my American sensitivities, I find that arrogant and condescending.

I tend to judge a party by its leadership, because it's the leadership that makes the decisions. I bet there are plenty of normal (albiet slightly misguided) people who support the VB, but those people don't write policy.

418 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:47:10pm

re: #378 NoSpam

I'm not just 'bootsing the subject under the rug' or 'throwing away my weapons' because I call a lunatic fringe group what it is.

If we ignore these ignorant racemongering crazies, they will take their crazy someplace else, and stop leaving steaming piles of it in my backyard.

This is emotional language. Crazy people tend to be more emotional than rational. No, you're not certifiably crazy like a moonbat, but you are resorting to emotion in your argument which is the signature of rational mind shutting down and the emotional one taking over.

The negative connotations you have with "race" come from the left. Learn about the subject and develop your own interpretation. You might surprise yourself. I know this will wind you up more. Not so long ago I was making the same arguments as yourself.

Just trust yourself to know how to interpret evidence.

re: #391 Lauraf

What kind of human behavior are you talking about - a preference for tortillas instead of bread, conservatism vs liberalism? Sure would like to read the research you're referring to, if you could point the way, because it sounds like a load of malarkey.

Try the Gene Expression blog.

I don't endorse everything that is said there, let alone understand it all. You'll have to come to your own conclusions on the growing reservior of facts. All I'd say is White Nationalists and anti-Semites don't have a leg to stand on.

419 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:47:11pm

re: #415 Highrise

And a good night to you too -- keep going!

420 Yank in the EU  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:47:14pm

re: #359 hous bin pharteen

If the anti-jihadis in the US get in bed with white supremacists in Europe, guess what? IT IS OVER.
There is no way any arguments against the Jihad would make any headway after that in the US. We in the US would be finished.
So not only have you lost Europe, you just lost the United States as an ally.
Boy, that is one hell of a good plan!

Amen to every word of that.

Plus it would be a bargain with evil.

421 rappmandu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:47:40pm

Evidently, the word "no" isn't recognized in Belgium.

/

422 lucius septimius  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:47:40pm

re: #416 Sharmuta

I hope to!

423 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:48:07pm

re: #411 lucius septimius

I don't care so long as they don't call me something ugly.

Well, at that place, at that time, you would have been called 'septimius' and like it - or you'd miss all your phone calls.

:D

424 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:49:06pm

re: #403 Beagle

I can understand that in Europe where Nazi sympathetic parties like Vlaams Belang could feasibly gain power why they have those rules. It's the same reason that Holocaust denial is illegal throughout much of Europe but not in America. It doesn't pose much of a realistic danger here in America but in Europe these ideologies are still lurking just below the surface.

425 wahabicorridor  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:49:59pm

I'm off for the nite too....

see ya tomorrow

426 rightymouse  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:50:13pm

re: #395 wahabicorridor

re: #386 rightymouse


Hey, guess what? Back in 1998 Chavez promised that he would not stay in power more than 5 years, would not nationalize any business, and called Cuba’s government a dictatorship.

Ha! keeper!

And I have a copy of the interview video to prove it too! :)

427 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:52:21pm
428 jumpininhere  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:52:41pm

We’re talking about a Jacques Chirac culture. Anti-American, elitist, socialist, you name it. Not to be trusted. If you need more, see Gerhard Schröder. Anti-American, elitist, socialist, whatever. Europeans love their dictators. Don’t trust them. Don’t bail them out. Let them go.

429 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:53:27pm

re: #410 NoSpam

Ah-hem..Peer review remains the very essence of the scientific process. OK? (what is lacking in the pseudo-scientific world is peer review.) You have to put your work forward in a published form, then have it assessed by other, knowledgeable experts in the field...there's a whole vetting process which goes on. The topic scientific journal in the U.S. is Science (published by the AAAS -- American Association for the Advancement of Science). In Europe it's Nature. (Scientific American is considered a lay person's magazine --a popular publication). Then, there are the zillion other largely unknown separate academic publications for specific sciences.

430 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:54:22pm

re: #424 Killgore Trout

I will say though that I don't like practice myself at all. Not only is "thought policing" morally reprehensible, it's also counter-productive. All you're doing is forcing them to go underground. You're not actually destroying their ideas, you're just making them hide them and become more deceitful. Also, you turn them into martyrs.

Just look at the VB. They didn't go away when the Vlaams Blok was banned; they just changed their name, cleaned up their rethoric, put on more expensive suit and hid some of their friends in the closet.

431 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:55:00pm

re: #401 jehu

Neither am I ready to arrogantly dismiss the Belgians and demand they get their shit together and found a political party that pleases all my American sensitivities, I find that arrogant and condescending.

And I've never said anything remotely like this. Frankly, that's the Belgians' problem, and they can either deal with it or not.

My whole point is, and has always been, that for the counter-jihad movement to associate with these groups is both morally wrong and politically suicidal.

432 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:55:43pm

#401 Jehu

So if I think it is a really, really, bad idea, and extremely counter productive to taint the world wide ant-jihad movement by associating with a small white supremacist political party in a small European country I am engaging in "group think".

It's not insulting and condescending to think maybe I would have these same views if I had never heard of LGF?

And it is not arrogant and condescending to think these issues should not be brought up and discussed because it might hurt the political fortunes of a small political party in a small European country?

433 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:55:53pm

LSD 387

David Duke is a BIG FAN of Vlaams Blok ... nuff said'

So? He was once a Republican, are all Republicans members of the Klan? What we have to sort out here is what is guilt by association and what is the actual nature of the VB party. Is it hopelessly racist? Is it the last and best hope of Belgian to stave off Islamification? Those are the questions to be asked, not this rush to judgment. I leave open the possibility that they are hopelessly racist and causing more harm than good and discrediting the fight against the Islamofacists.

But this fight is serious enough to me, at least, that I am willing to hose off a willing fighter and continue if that is possible. All I ask is that everyone make a fair assessment based on the facts we can glean. Maybe some of you have done that to your satisfaction and find VB to be utterly discredited.

434 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:58:11pm

re: #427 jeppo

Nails it?

Exactly where do you draw the line?

What is acceptable to you and what is not?

435 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:58:16pm

re: #418 therewaslight

re: #378 NoSpam

I'm not just 'bootsing the subject under the rug' or 'throwing away my weapons' because I call a lunatic fringe group what it is.

If we ignore these ignorant racemongering crazies, they will take their crazy someplace else, and stop leaving steaming piles of it in my backyard.

This is emotional language. Crazy people tend to be more emotional than rational. No, you're not certifiably crazy like a moonbat, but you are resorting to emotion in your argument which is the signature of rational mind shutting down and the emotional one taking over.

The negative connotations you have with "race" come from the left. Learn about the subject and develop your own interpretation. You might surprise yourself. I know this will wind you up more. Not so long ago I was making the same arguments as yourself.

Just trust yourself to know how to interpret evidence.

I think I was just insulted here. Okay, if you don't want emotional language, how about this?

10100100100101010101010010101001010100101111010101 00100101001010010101001010101001010101001 VB 1001010010101010
0101001010010100100101001 race 010010101010010100101001001
00100101001010010101...

We are emotional creatures, not robots. We are guided by emotions, not 'reason,' which is itself emotionally derived. I am saying I do not want to be associated with people I do not agree with, people who espouse an idealology I find to be disgusting and abhorrent. The more I think about it, the more people like the VB leadership and the useful idiots who support them scare me.

I do not want a Eurabia. I also do not want a Fourth Reich. So I will choose my allies carefully.

436 realwest  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:58:30pm

Well now I know why the Brussels Journal ("BJ") has not permitted me to make comments at BJ.
I applied yesterday, filled out the forms and all that and they sent me an acknowledgment and a password and everything!
But they said I couldn't comment at BJ until the "Administrator" had approved my application.
I guess I won't be holding my breath waiting on that approval.

437 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 4:58:50pm

re: #401 jehu

I can't stand neo-nazi skinheads to me they are vermin. If this party is wedded to them with no chance of reform, then I will echo the sentiments of many here...the hell with them, and probably the hell with Belgium. But I am not ready to make that pronouncement at this time. Neither am I ready to arrogantly dismiss the Belgians and demand they get their shit together and found a political party that pleases all my American sensitivities, I find that arrogant and condescending.

I understand your feelings on this.

But, as for the Belgians, there is this "air of desperation" that is very dangerous, confusing, and possibly self-defeating. America is not at the point as Eurabia, where Europeans are up against the wall and diversity has destroyed the culture to a point of the balkanization of cities.

We in America can still point out that WRONG is wrong.

Vlaams' stance on using Race as a poltical selling point is lame, dangerous, and .... unamerican. (Which is why I don't like it-and I am free to say so)

If America got to the point of Belgium, where a political party of nazi SS origins rose to power on a platform that included racial division - we really lose.

438 gromster  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:00:10pm

267 ploome

"Judge not."

That comment by Jesus was referring to hypocrisy in inter-personal realationships.

As the fellow you were talking to was not being hateful to you, it does not apply.

I've read through the exchange you've had with some others in this thread, and you do come across as very bitter.

Everyone in life has had hardships, loss (including family members), and tradgey - you seem to think that yours entitles you to behave rudely to others, or that your brand of loss is deeper or more painful that that of others.

What I don't understand is how you would show outrage against Anti-Semitic commentary and sentiments and then show indifference to insults against black people (i.e., "Dog" referring to black as "n*g**rs")?

439 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:00:28pm

re: #433 jehu

He was once a Republican, are all Republicans members of the Klan?

Moral relativist BS, and you know it.

All I ask is that everyone make a fair assessment based on the facts we can glean. Maybe some of you have done that to your satisfaction and find VB to be utterly discredited.

Uh- yeah. We have. You're clearly behind the curve here and because of that you've called us all "arrogant". Thanks.

/Now- go listen to that interview. Seriously.

440 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:01:51pm

re: #430 Truumax

I agree it hasn't solved the problem after almost 70 years and a Nazi occupied Europe is still withing the the realm of possibility. The real problem is the European attitudes towards race and culture haven't evolved.

441 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:01:58pm

re: #433 jehu

But this fight is serious enough to me, at least, that I am willing to hose off a willing fighter and continue if that is possible. All I ask is that everyone make a fair assessment based on the facts we can glean. Maybe some of you have done that to your satisfaction and find VB to be utterly discredited.

I totally agree. But are you saying we should not even discuss and research the issue of VB? (No matter how heated it gets?)

442 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:03:12pm

re: #436 realwest

Despite their crap about how they're a free speech blog they still stink.

443 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:03:17pm

re: #433 jehu

All I ask is that everyone make a fair assessment based on the facts we can glean. Maybe some of you have done that to your satisfaction and find VB to be utterly discredited.

Links to everything I've posted on this are now at the top of this page. I've been researching and writing about it for almost two weeks now. How about taking some time to read what I've put up instead of demanding that everyone go through it all again just for you?

444 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:03:49pm

re: #429 J.S.

re: #410 NoSpam

Ah-hem..Peer review remains the very essence of the scientific process. OK? (what is lacking in the pseudo-scientific world is peer review.) You have to put your work forward in a published form, then have it assessed by other, knowledgeable experts in the field...there's a whole vetting process which goes on. The topic scientific journal in the U.S. is Science (published by the AAAS -- American Association for the Advancement of Science). In Europe it's Nature. (Scientific American is considered a lay person's magazine --a popular publication). Then, there are the zillion other largely unknown separate academic publications for specific sciences.

But who are these 'peers?' The same people who espouse global warming alarmism inspite of all the facts to the contrary? It's not that peer review blocks all the good articles while letting the bad ones through, but is is not an adequate system to keep the monkeys from running the zoo. A lot of these 'impartial peers' are not impartial at all, and will squelch research based on petty rivarly.

Science is cutthroat, and not in a good way. I am more willing to trust an article in a less prestigious, though still reputable journal, because that article is less likely to have gotten there via politics instead of science.

(And if you are wondering, I am a scientist.)

445 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:04:28pm

re: #433 jehu

The amount of evidence is staggering.

Unfortunately, so is the sheer size of the different threads covering this.

Trust me though, there's a whole mountain of shit piled up. Take a work day, check it all out.

446 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:06:10pm

Nobody has happened to notice a sharp increase in international tension of late, say the past 2 to 3 months, have they?

10

447 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:06:25pm
448 MJ  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:06:53pm

re: #433 jehu

LSD 387

David Duke is a BIG FAN of Vlaams Blok ... nuff said'

So? He was once a Republican, are all Republicans members of the Klan?... Is it the last and best hope of Belgian to stave off Islamification? .... All I ask is that everyone make a fair assessment based on the facts we can glean. Maybe some of you have done that to your satisfaction and find VB to be utterly discredited.

Haven't been paying attention much, have you? Their goal is not the "last best hope of Belgian". Their goal is to destroy a unified Belgium by any means possible.
As for David Duke- you might notice that all Republicans distanced themselves from Duke because he is a Neo-Nazi. What you are proposing is just the opposite. That we common cause with the Neo-Nazis.

449 ubercheesehead  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:07:15pm

re: #303 wahabicorridor

re: #285 therewaslight


We can't afford to cede the ground of race, when that ground is rising higher and higher on facts.

I'm not sure the science of biology supports 'race'. Anybody know?

There is only one race--human. All humans can interbreed. All humans have almost identical gentic code. All humans descended from one original set of parents.

450 nickpicker  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:07:41pm

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before, but as it just so happens Paul Belien's wife is a member of Vlaams Belang, which is one of the reaons why Belien's family has been put under pressure for trying to home-school their children. But if you read the relevant articles at brusselsjournal.com Mr Belien makes it seem that, somehow, his family was being prosecuted for being individualistic and anti-big-government, a clear attempt to lure the US audience of his blog into believing that he's some kind of Reaganite.

You might also want to check out Belien's Wikipedia entry:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

451 Render  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:08:18pm

re: #433 jehu

Know the history of whom and what you speak, before you speak it.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Duke was a lifelong member of the Dem's until 1988. George HW bush, and Ronald Reagan both openly endorsed Duke's opponent in that race.

We deny David Duke in all forms.

OPENLY,
R

452 jumpininhere  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:08:59pm

As we debate this, let us not forget that the children of France and Germany have been steeped in hatred for America. You cannot undo that. It is what it is. Thank you Chirac and Schroeder. That is your legacy.

453 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:09:15pm

Charles 431

Neither am I ready to arrogantly dismiss the Belgians and demand they get their shit together and found a political party that pleases all my American sensitivities, I find that arrogant and condescending.



And I've never said anything remotely like this. Frankly, that's the Belgians' problem, and they can either deal with it or not.

My whole point is, and has always been, that for the counter-jihad movement to associate with these groups is both morally wrong and politically suicidal.

No you have not said anything like that, it is being said repeatedly by posters on this thread. I agree if this party is determined to wed themselves to skin-heads then they need to be exposed for what they are and any sort of movement like this must be stopped. I only want to know if we are demanding a racial sensitivity that Europe cannot produce. I guess I am looking at the distinction of pride of race versus racism, perhaps a fine distinction, but one I think exists.

454 justamomof4  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:09:29pm

re: #14 wahabicorridor

Now they don't like gays either? White, straight, Christian. Got it.

You know, there seems to be a nostalgia in them for the 'old Europe'. But I don't think the old Europe of their imaginative memories ever really existed.

History has to be burned into the imagination before it can be received by reason - Thomas Macaulay 1847

455 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:10:17pm

re: #440 Killgore Trout

Some places are better off than others. The SD in Sweden still only hold 2.9 percent of the vote, so they're not in any place to "seize power", and an overwhelming majority in Sweden wouldn't dream of voting for them.

But yeah, the problem definetly exists.

456 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:12:38pm

re: #435 NoSpam


We are emotional creatures, not robots. We are guided by emotions, not 'reason,' which is itself emotionally derived. I am saying I do not want to be associated with people I do not agree with, people who espouse an idealology I find to be disgusting and abhorrent. The more I think about it, the more people like the VB leadership and the useful idiots who support them scare me.

Or pyschopaths :)

What you need to understand is the White Nationalists are latching on to and trying to hijack a science.

The science isn't an ideology of white nationlism. If you were more aware of the science of human genetics you might understand this.

You might be able to debate VB and their ilk on their ground, defeat them and become politically relevant.

I do not want a Eurabia. I also do not want a Fourth Reich. So I will choose my allies carefully.

By "carefully" you mean demonise and server links with all scientists of human behaviour, even if they oppose White Nationalism and anti-semitism - as well as anyone who mentions the word "race" in text in an attempt to expose their fallacies?

That sounds very careful. And rational.

457 vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:13:41pm

jehu

I only want to know if we are demanding a racial sensitivity that Europe cannot produce.

It can. Give it two generations, if it survives that long.

458 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:14:28pm

re: #453 jehu

Seriously- go over the links Charles has provided if you "want to know".

459 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:16:40pm

re: #444 NoSpam

Generally speaking, there are going to be editorial boards (major publications need these experts to make the ultimate decisions); they'll review articles and make recommendations. Of course, it's not a perfect system -- but it is essential and necessary for the progression of science. (there have also -- conversely -- been lesser known publications which have been ruined by publishing sub-standard "research" and they get caught. The readership dries up or they get too bad a reputation). So, yes, the larger publications will tend to be conservative (less willing to take risks). (The whole global warming mess -- that's a different story -- it's far too politicized. I've also heard that a whole host of climatologists wanted/demanded that their names be taken off some list which a global warming enthusiastic was signing them up for...I don't consider most publications by the United Nations to be "scientific." (they're political).

460 Ezekiel2517  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:17:30pm

Guilt By Association is a principle of McCarthyism, not Stalinism..you douchebag. Get it straight.

461 vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:18:57pm

Vlaams Bloc and Belang are infested with Nazis. They're also the biggest bloc in favor of Flemish independence. I don't know if their success is directly attributable to their Nazism. A good test of that would be for someone in their ranks to break openly with the Nazism and steal votes from both sides: from the Vlaams "right" side and (because the person is not a Nazi) the "left" side. If that person is successful, the Nazis can be driven to the wall and stamped out like the roaches they are. If this doesn't happen, and the Nazis can't be driven out, they'll become entrenched. Then the mask will really come off, and the good people in Flanders will wonder what happened as they get pushed (it's so unfair!) into enforcing some final solution.

Purge the Nazis. Now.

462 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:19:26pm

re: #447 jeppo

So no matter what other views or policies they have, that is the be all and end all?

463 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:20:12pm

LGF bashers have found another spot to post:

[Link: hotair.com...]

464 jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:20:41pm

MJ 448

As for David Duke- you might notice that all Republicans distanced themselves from Duke because he is a Neo-Nazi. What you are proposing is just the opposite. That we common cause with the Neo-Nazis.

That is true, but he was still a Republican and the Dems still smear us for that fact, all the while ignoring the past of Robert Bird. And I am NOT advocating common cause with neo-nazis, I want to know if the VB party is hopelessly enmeshed with neo-nazis, or are they just trying to associate with them, certainly the GOP was unfairly tarred with this brush, are we doing the same?

Enough posters are telling me that the VB party is apparently a lost cause I will do some research and probably find out that it is so. Anyone that has known me here on this site also knows that I never go along for the ride just for the ride, I will question what appears to be sometimes a group-think phenomena.

But many times it is simply that intelligent people have done the research and reached logical and consistent conclusions, which probably has been done here. I tend to respect the diversity and intellect of the posters on this site, that is not to say there are not those that tend to surf the next wave, I would be surprised if that did NOT happen. Anyone else that knows my posting knows that I have a singular hatred of Isalamofacism. And I would almost, but not quite, make a deal with the Devil to see this evil expunged from the earth.

465 gromster  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:20:44pm

#287

This isn't a 'blame the Protestants' argument, (and after telling this guy not to be biased against Catholics), is it?

As a Baptist, I am neither Roman Catholic or Protestant. btw. (Baptists were never a part of the RCC, hence, we're not Protestants. My theological ancestors were burned at the stake by Catholics _and_ Protestants.)

There has been anti-Semitism within and practiced by the Roman Catholic Church - I hope you're not denying that?*

Maybe you were just trying to explain the anti-Semitism in Germany specifically?
------
*e.g.,
413 AD - A group of monks sweep through Palestine, destroying synagogues and massacring Jews at the Western Wall

425 AD - Jews are required by law to observe [Roman Catholic] Christian feasts and fasts and to listen to sermons designed to persuade them to convert

830 AD - Agobard, Archbishop of Lyons, writes anti-Jewish pamphlets in which he refers to Jews as "sons of darkness"

(other examples could be cited)

466 ubercheesehead  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:23:30pm

re: #455 Truumax

Truumax, are there any credible European parties out there that understand the threat of Islamization and are trying to resist it, or are the anti-Semitic, Nazi and neo-Nazi parties the only ones? If there are not, Europe is in big, bigtrouble.

467 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:24:40pm

Beings some here do not like to check out links...just say'n..

BNP leader and Holocaust denier invited to Oxford Union


· Dictator among those asked to address students
· University debating society under fire

Matthew Taylor
Friday October 12, 2007
The Guardian


The Oxford Union debating society came under fire last night after its president said he had approached Holocaust denier David Irving, British National party chairman Nick Griffin and the Belarussian dictator, Alexander Lukoshenko, to speak at forthcoming events.
Luke Tryl said he had asked Mr Irving and Mr Griffin to speak at the union's Free Speech Forum, due to take place at the end of November, adding that Mr Lukoshenko, the Belarussian president, accused of a string of human rights abuses, had been approached to address students later in the term.

"The Oxford Union is famous for is commitment to free speech and although I do think these people have awful and abhorrent views I do think Oxford students are intelligent enough to challenge and ridicule them," he told the Guardian, adding that no formal decision on who would be invited had been made.

However, the move drew widespread criticism from student groups and anti-fascist campaigners.

In a joint statement, Oxford Jewish Society presidents Daniel Bloch and Steven Altmann-Richer said: "It will be a disgrace if these discredited speakers are allowed a platform at a forum on free speech. They have an embarrassing history of disregard for legal restrictions on it. It will certainly go down as a black mark on the reputation of the Oxford Union."

Duncan Money, a second-year student at the university who says he has suffered a series of threats from rightwing extremists, said: "It is disappointing that the Oxford Union has chosen to promote and legitimise fascism ... Doubtless the controversy will bring them feverish excitement but for those of us who confront hate-filled bigots and are on the receiving end of death threats because of it, the issue is a bit more serious."

The BNP said Mr Griffin would attend the event if it went ahead. However, the invitation to Mr Lukoshenko was blocked by the Foreign Office, which said he was subject to an EU travel ban.

Mr Irving, who told the Guardian last month that he was launching a comeback speaking tour of the UK, denied that he had received any formal approach from the Oxford Union but added that he would like to speak to the students there.

"I have had many invitations to speak there in the past but they normally get withdrawn after threats of violence and intimidation. It is a pity because I think there are a lot of students who would like to hear what I have to say."

Last month the discredited historian told the Guardian that he believed the Jews were responsible for what happened to them during the second world war and that the "Jewish problem" was at the root of most of the wars of the last 100 years.
[Link: education.guardian.co.uk...]

468 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:25:01pm

re: #439 Sharmuta

Why?
We have been reading links and listening to audio and watching video and reading other web sites to establish facts for the last week.

So someone pops on the site everyday, says they are behind the curve, then accuses everyone else of jumping to conclusions and taring and feathering and guilt by association.

Then next day, repeat.

469 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:26:05pm

re: #461 vittorio


Not enough time.
We only have til Tuesday.

470 Orde  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:26:26pm

re: #375 Truumax

re: #365 TMK

NEO-NAZI TIES! He supports people with NEO-NAZI TIES! Jesus christ, the comparison between Giuliani and Belien is retarded on so many levels.

Truumax, your emotional, unnecessaryily-insensitive-using-the-name-of-the-L ord-in-vain insult is disrespectul, abusive, and illogical -- regardless of how you personally feel about abortion, the reality is that many of us--rightly or wrongly--consider abortion to be mass murder (abortions numbering in the millions, and surely no one would consider the aborted to be anything but innocent)--anyway, I do not ask that you agree with this characterization, but that you attempt to comprehend how absurd it sounds to us when people say that we should put aside Giuliani's abortion position because of his supposed strong position against Islamic terrorism (something I strongly disagree with anyway, but that's beside the point here). We see killing of millions of innocents. Nazis support killing of millions of innocents. There is a parallel. Surely you have the capacity to understand that if abortion equated to murdering millions of innocents, and so were perceived by us as grievous on the order or murdering millions of Jews, asking us to vote for someone who supported it is asking too much? Here's an article from a Christian blog that questions the framing of the whole Giuliani-Evangelical problem. Not trying to be contentious here, just hoping for increased understanding.

471 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:26:30pm

Lots of dramatic emails coming in, saying, "This is goodbye! You're off my list!"

Here's a good one:

Goog God - they're anguishing over at BJ over your bully tactics,
wndering if you're right or wrong - and YOU use it as a pretext to say
they're 'showing their true face'?!?
You are a bully. You are a zealot. You are infantile. These Europeans
have had their culture rammed down their throats, taught to think of
themselves as filth and criminals in their own country- and YOU piously
take them to task for being anti-immigrant?! What a pathetic twisted
hypocrite you are.So obsessed are you with the notion of antisemitism
and nazism - so brainwashed are you with the norion that a nazi lurks
under every bush and behind every tree . You've long stopped seeing the
forest for the trees. You have lost your mind - and the true nature of
your hypocrite self is finally coming to light. It's YOU who is finally
showing your true face - and it's not pretty. You're a goon.

472 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:26:34pm

I love how we're just supposed to ignore the 800 lb. Gorilla in the room ...

473 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:28:18pm

I also received an incredibly hateful email about Ayaan Hirsi Ali, that I won't post here.

474 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:29:27pm
475 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:29:32pm

re: #471 Charles


Lemme guess.

Member since 2006.
Number of posts since 2006. 5

I smell a rat.

476 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:31:34pm

re: #468 hous bin pharteen

Kind of smacks of hypocrisy, doesn't it?

477 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:32:33pm

I hope this isnt't too long. Basic Blog Logic. BBL 101 from Wiki.

1. An ad hominem argument, consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claims is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject. (Ergo the gay pics from BJ.)

2. Reductio ad Hitlerum, – whimsical Latin for "reduction (or argument) to Hitler (or the Nazis)" – is a modern sub-type of fallacy in logic. It is a variety of both questionable cause and association fallacy. The phrase was coined by an academic ethicist, Leo Strauss, in 1950.

The fallacy assumes the form of "Hitler (or the Nazi party) supported X, therefore X must be evil/undesirable/bad"; This fallacy is often effective due to instant condemnation of anything to do with Hitler or Nazis.
( This is in both camps and critics of both camps)

3. Judgmental language is a subset of Style over substance fallacy and Red herring fallacies. It employs insultive, compromettant or pejorative language to influence the recipient's judgement.

4. A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. It is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. Often, the straw man is set up to deliberately overstate the opponent's position.[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2] (E. G calling Dymphna's church essay rascist)

5. The term wisdom of repugnance describes the belief that an intuitive (or "deep-seated") negative response to some thing, idea or practice should be interpreted as evidence for the intrinsically harmful or evil character of that thing. Furthermore, it refers to the notion that wisdom may manifest itself in feelings of disgust towards anything which lacks "goodness" or wisdom, though the feelings or the reasoning of such 'wisdom' may not be immediately explicable through reason.

6. Three men make a tiger is a Chinese proverb. It refers to the idea that if an unfounded premise or urban legend is mentioned and repeated by many individuals, the premise will be erroneously accepted as the truth. This concept is analogous to communal reinforcement or the logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum or appeal to the people. (The primary method of thinking at dailykos and among pollsters)

7. A red herring is a metaphor for a diversion or distraction from an original objective. Red herrings are frequently used in literature and cinema mysteries, where a character is presented to make the reader/viewer believe he/she is the obvious perpetrator, when in reality it is someone far less suspect.(There are red herrings for and against VB in the blog brawl)

8. In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes to others one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them.

9. Ten Steps to Fascism. [Link: www.guardian.co.uk...] A few of us here are guilty of this.

10. Cognitive dissonance is a psychological term describing the uncomfortable tension that may result from having two conflicting thoughts at the same time, or from engaging in behavior that conflicts with one's beliefs, or from experiencing apparently conflicting phenomena.

In simple terms, it can be the filtering of information that conflicts with what you already believe, in an effort to ignore that information and reinforce your beliefs.(this is why you do want critics)

478 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:33:15pm
479 vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:33:37pm

Charles

YOU piously take them to task for being anti-immigrant?

What a moron.

480 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:34:19pm

re: #466 ubercheesehead

No, the "white nationalist" parties are still pretty much the only ones who are raising the issues. I do expect that to change pretty soon though. The policital establishment in Europe is thoroughly entrenched, and likes to stay that way. If a new player starts getting support because of issues they are not themselves raising, well... They will start raising those issues. They hate rocking the boat, but they will do so to prevent it from overturning completely.

481 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:34:51pm

re: #467 allahakchew

Aleksander Lukasjenko? Oh, that's just disgusting.

482 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:35:17pm

By the way, just to be perfectly clear -- I've never done anything at LGF just to be "popular." If I lose 90% of my readers because of the stand I'm taking against the counter-jihad movement associating with crypto-fascist parties, it won't matter one bit to me, and it won't change what I believe to be right.

I know some of the detractors are going to say I'm being pious, holier-than-thou, ya da blah blah. I do not care what they think.

483 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:36:02pm

re: #474 jeppo

Bird is not running the Democratic party with 10 or 15 of his cronies.
He is ONE guy in the party.
We are not talking about ONE guy here.
We are talking about the people who RUN the whole damn party!
If this was one or two dipwads in the whole VB party, this discussion would not be happening. No one here would give a rats ass.

If Hilary, Pelosi, Reid, etc, happened to have racist views and were supporting a white supremacist agenda, no one would have a problem with this?

484 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:37:33pm
485 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:38:16pm

I think it's revealing that the people Belien attacks in his post (besides me) are:

1) a gay man, and

2) a black woman.

The guy is an intolerant bigot.

486 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:39:55pm

re: #482 Charles


Charles, if you took the view of getting in bed with white supremacists was a good idea, I would be out of here that day.
I would be ashamed to post here.

487 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:40:08pm

re: #471 Charles

Lots of dramatic emails coming in, saying, "This is goodbye! You're off my list!"

This sounds like something on a Seinfeld episode hehe.

488 Dirk Diggler  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:41:11pm
How come nobody quotes Richard Marx?

Whoever posted that owes me a new monitor.

489 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:41:43pm

re: #471 Charles

Goog?

These Europeans have had their culture rammed down their throats, taught to think of themselves as filth and criminals in their own country- and YOU piously take them to task for being anti-immigrant?!

I suggest this person either hasn't read one word off LGF or their name starts with "F" and ends in "jordman".

490 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:42:49pm

re: #470 Orde

Look, I'm not gonna get into a discussion about abortion. I will however say, that trying to make pro-choice morally equal to neo-nazism is awful to me. Not only did that ideology torture and murder millions of innocent people, it did so in the most cruel ways imaginable. It struck fear into an entire continent. It aspired for world domination. It is one of the most genuine personifications of pure evil that the world has ever seen.

So, sorry if you thought I was disrespectful; I wasn't trying to be. But my emotional response did not come because of my feelings toward abortion, it came because of my feelings toward nazism.

491 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:43:26pm

re: #471 Charles
there will be a lot of extreme nutjobs climbing out of the woodwork. It's really no different than turning over a log and seeing all the bugs shocked by the light and running for shelter complaining to you all the time they are unicorns and on your side... Until now. They spend their log time sending Michelle Malkin vile emails. And she publishes some of them. You have probably reduced her hate mail a bit.

492 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:44:08pm

re: #477 hazzyday

I believe it would be far preferable if you found an argument in a comment (an argument which you believe illustrated one of your claims of fallacy, then explained why you thought it was a "fallacy.") As with everything else, many, many times -- you must consider the context. For example, if I state: "So and so is greedy and is simply arguing for a change in the zoning regulations so the property he owns increases in value." that may or may not be an ad-hominem attack. Ok? On occasion, what first appears to be "ad hominem" attack later becomes, in fact, relevant to an argument. And ditto for all your other items on the list...these may or may not be relevant to an argument...it all depends. So, one more time, if you happen to see an argument which you believe commits a fallacy, then, by all means, point it out. (but please, spare us the lists.)

493 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:44:24pm

re: #489 Sharmuta

I just saw that the f guy is blocked! I am a little sloooow>

494 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:44:36pm

re: #488 Dirk Diggler

Sorry, those are the risks you take at LGF.
It was in the contract you signed in order to get your Zionist check.


/another thing we get bashed about. Lord help us if we have a sense of humor around here.
Can't have any one liners.

495 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:46:34pm
496 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:46:46pm

re: #456 therewaslight

re: #435 NoSpam


We are emotional creatures, not robots. We are guided by emotions, not 'reason,' which is itself emotionally derived. I am saying I do not want to be associated with people I do not agree with, people who espouse an idealology I find to be disgusting and abhorrent. The more I think about it, the more people like the VB leadership and the useful idiots who support them scare me.

Or pyschopaths :)

What you need to understand is the White Nationalists are latching on to and trying to hijack a science.

The science isn't an ideology of white nationlism. If you were more aware of the science of human genetics you might understand this.

You might be able to debate VB and their ilk on their ground, defeat them and become politically relevant.


I do not want a Eurabia. I also do not want a Fourth Reich. So I will choose my allies carefully.

By "carefully" you mean demonise and server links with all scientists of human behaviour, even if they oppose White Nationalism and anti-semitism - as well as anyone who mentions the word "race" in text in an attempt to expose their fallacies?

That sounds very careful. And rational.

I didn't say genetics had anything to do with white nationalism, and based on the evidence I have seen, our notions of 'race' are purely cultural, not genetic. I do not have a problem with someone wanting to study 'race' purely for impartial scientific value, but I dislike the people who treat cultural differences like they are genetic differences. cultural=!genetic. And I reserve special hatred for people who shill for nonsense using phony science.

There's a reason Watson got shamed. I think the people doing the shaming went overboard, but there was a reason for it. It's stistical bunk that gives an idealological weapon to the loonies who want to warp science for their own ends.

I also didn't say people cant use the word 'race' even though I believe there is no such thing.

497 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:47:49pm

re: #477 hazzyday

9. Ten Steps to Fascism. A few of us here are guilty of this.

Talk about ad hominem! You're a hypocrite!

498 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:48:49pm

re: #485 Charles

Yes it is odd that he would argue this way. You would assume he is doing it to gauge his audience. The Gay photo seems to me to be strictly out of the Fascist dirty tricks books. As I have said, I am fence sitting a little bit, but with just given a little rope the VB people are hanging themselves easily. If this argument gains wider traction in the MSM we will see how much more rope they pull. I would like to see the WSJ weigh in on this. It is amusing to me that the leftitudes don't want to weigh in on this because they see themselves reflected in the VB people.

499 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:50:04pm

re: #497 Sharmuta

Nope that is your cognitive dissonance speaking for you and you're projecting lol. I am sorry if it hurts to see the truth. The article is a very left leaning one, but it's highlights are correct.

500 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:53:11pm

GAZE

501 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:53:11pm

re: #489 Sharmuta

re: #471 Charles

Goog?

These Europeans have had their culture rammed down their throats, taught to think of themselves as filth and criminals in their own country- and YOU piously take them to task for being anti-immigrant?!
I suggest this person either hasn't read one word off LGF or their name starts with "F" and ends in "jordman".

No, this one was an American wacko.

502 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:53:40pm

re: #492 J.S.

Lol people are throwing around the logic terms left and right. I am reading them and some people use them fluidly and other people every other phrase is an ad hominen. I kept seeing so many straw man references here and some that made me shake my head I had to go back and read the definitions.

Consider the post a question.

503 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:53:58pm

re: #471 Charles

Lots of dramatic emails coming in, saying, "This is goodbye! You're off my list!"

Here's a good one:


Goog God - they're anguishing over at BJ over your bully tactics,
wndering if you're right or wrong - and YOU use it as a pretext to say
they're 'showing their true face'?!?
You are a bully. You are a zealot. You are infantile. These Europeans
have had their culture rammed down their throats, taught to think of
themselves as filth and criminals in their own country- and YOU piously
take them to task for being anti-immigrant?! What a pathetic twisted
hypocrite you are.So obsessed are you with the notion of antisemitism
and nazism - so brainwashed are you with the norion that a nazi lurks
under every bush and behind every tree . You've long stopped seeing the
forest for the trees. You have lost your mind - and the true nature of
your hypocrite self is finally coming to light. It's YOU who is finally
showing your true face - and it's not pretty. You're a goon.

Well Charles, This has hit quite a sore spot on some people.
If anyone doesn't care to read the links, watch the video's AND do their own damn research then so be it.
There is no excuse for "I didn't know" now.

504 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:55:18pm

re: #496 NoSpam

You are on the mark! Correct! Correct! Correct! (It's the pseudo-scientists who keep wishing to use "race" as something other than a sociological category. "Race" is not a biological category. sociological, yes; biological, no.)

505 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:56:49pm

re: #500 Sharmuta

Well reasoned out and fits a mold. My point is going to be that there are a few people commenting that dilute the impact of the content of the VB expose. They do this by resorting to these logical fallacies. And I will pre admit you could very well find me someday committing these sins. Just point me back to this post. The right perfect storm just hasn't hit me.

506 EC Marm  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:57:09pm

re: #465 gromster

This isn't a 'blame the Protestants' argument, (and after telling this guy not to be biased against Catholics), is it?


No, and that is specifically why I advised against anyone other than that poster read that comment. She is a notorious Catholic basher and I was only hoping that with some more information she might have some different directions to point her finger.

I will accept that their have been acts of anti-Antisemitism from the Catholic Church. But, if you look at the invention of movable type printing in Europe (c. 1439, Germany) and that book in the link (c. 1543, German author) you might consider that this was the first time in history that a book proposing the mass extinction of Jews was published and widely distributed in Germany. It was decidedly not written by a Catholic. He bashed the Catholic Church, then, later in life, called for the extermination of the Jews.

The author of Kristallnancht revealed the author of "On the Jews and Their Lies" and has published eight other books relating to the Holocaust and it was his observation that if there was ever a blueprint for the Holocaust, it originated with that book.

507 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:57:37pm

re: #501 Charles

LMAO! Okay- must be the lack of LGF reading then. No where have you made those sentiments known, so they're just going off the talking points. It's a little sad that when people fall in that trap they have no idea how ignorant they've paint themselves.

508 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:57:52pm

re: #502 hazzyday

Actually, I've seen some other fine/splendid examples of flawed reasoning -- such as the "either / or" fallacy (as if the person had but two categories from which to choose with no third alternative) (I sadly note, "either/or" wasn't on your list).

509 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 5:58:25pm

re: #486 hous bin pharteen

re: #482 Charles


Charles, if you took the view of getting in bed with white supremacists was a good idea, I would be out of here that day.
I would be ashamed to post here.

Well said...

510 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:00:09pm

re: #459 J.S.

re: #444 NoSpam

Generally speaking, there are going to be editorial boards (major publications need these experts to make the ultimate decisions); they'll review articles and make recommendations. Of course, it's not a perfect system -- but it is essential and necessary for the progression of science. (there have also -- conversely -- been lesser known publications which have been ruined by publishing sub-standard "research" and they get caught. The readership dries up or they get too bad a reputation). So, yes, the larger publications will tend to be conservative (less willing to take risks). (The whole global warming mess -- that's a different story -- it's far too politicized. I've also heard that a whole host of climatologists wanted/demanded that their names be taken off some list which a global warming enthusiastic was signing them up for...I don't consider most publications by the United Nations to be "scientific." (they're political).

Global warming is merely an extreme example. The problem is, nobody ever really checks these articles to see if the experiments in them are reproducable. If a paper comes to a review board member--that paper not being from his particular field of study--he may not be able to spot subtle idiosyncrasies. And most people will only ever read the abstract and the comments of the 'peers,' not the article itself.

If you are skilled in the ways of weaselwording, you can get a lot past the editors.

511 Jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:00:24pm

hous bin pharteen 483

If Hilary, Pelosi, Reid, etc, happened to have racist views and were supporting a white supremacist agenda, no one would have a problem with this?

How in hell do you know they do not? Because they don't goosestep and announce the fact? The policies of the Dem party and liberals in particular have destroyed the black American family. It is liberals that run nearly all the inner cities that warehouse blacks. It is liberals that have created welfare that helped destroy an already weakened black family structure.

I fear the obvious stupid neo-nazi far less than the sophisticated elitist message of modern liberalism, because educated people like you can utter such nonsense as above.

Liberals that send their kids to private schools but deny vouchers to inner-city blacks. Lets all bash the neo-nazis, but hardly account for the far worse subtle racism in our own midst. Does the Duke Lacrose case mean anything?

I consider the Dem party racist to me, a white guy. They look at me as a food group. This is why I say there is group think on this blog and any blog. The obvious is so easy to stand up against. Some of you still operate with a Liberal Hangover that sees only white racism as a major sin, but only if that white racism is stupidly out in the open. I have always considered liberals the worst racists that have ever lived. Their every action and thought seems to be centered around race, or how they look in relating to other races.

512 Beagle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:01:10pm

#453 jehu

It's a continuum. If you think black chicks have badonkadonk butts it doesn't make you Hitler.

This is like a wreck or car chase. I can't quit watching.

513 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:01:24pm

re: #497 Sharmuta

re: #477 hazzyday


9. Ten Steps to Fascism. A few of us here are guilty of this.

Talk about ad hominem! You're a hypocrite!

Where did I put my jackboots...

514 Render  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:02:29pm

[Link: books.google.com...]

Something tells me that DeWinter and his fellow nazi's of VB do not have as much support within the Belgian Jewish community as they claim.

LEAST
WORST
OF,
R

515 PIERRE_LEGRAND[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:02:58pm
516 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:03:08pm

If some people are still on the fence on this issue it is because they are either ignorant or duplicitous, imo.

517 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:03:52pm

re: #481 Truumax

re: #467 allahakchew

Aleksander Lukasjenko? Oh, that's just disgusting.

I know...and the link I got this from was a group that is like VB.

518 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:03:57pm

re: #504 J.S.

re: #496 NoSpam

You are on the mark! Correct! Correct! Correct! (It's the pseudo-scientists who keep wishing to use "race" as something other than a sociological category. "Race" is not a biological category. sociological, yes; biological, no.)


Yay?

Okay, and on that note, I saunter off into the distance...

So long...Thanks for all the fish. :)

519 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:03:58pm

re: #503 allahakchew

If anyone doesn't care to read the links, watch the video's AND do their own damn research then so be it.
There is no excuse for "I didn't know" now.


Right On.

520 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:04:48pm

re: #518 NoSpam

re: #504 J.S.


re: #496 NoSpam

You are on the mark! Correct! Correct! Correct! (It's the pseudo-scientists who keep wishing to use "race" as something other than a sociological category. "Race" is not a biological category. sociological, yes; biological, no.)

? not = !
and PIMF


Yay?

Okay, and on that note, I saunter off into the distance...

So long...Thanks for all the fish. :)

521 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:05:27pm

re: #516 Sharmuta
Or lazy, kneejerking, and won't research the links provided ...

522 NoSpam  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:05:44pm

re: #520 NoSpam

re: #518 NoSpam


re: #504 J.S.

re: #496 NoSpam
You are on the mark! Correct! Correct! Correct! (It's the pseudo-scientists who keep wishing to use "race" as something other than a sociological category. "Race" is not a biological category. sociological, yes; biological, no.)



Yay?
Okay, and on that note, I saunter off into the distance...

So long...Thanks for all the fish. :)

? not = !
and PIMF


I'll get this right eventually...

523 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:05:54pm

re: #498 hazzyday

As I have said, I am fence sitting a little bit

I absolutely don't understand this attitude. How can one still be a fence sitter if you have been in nearly every thread discussing this and truly reading the information?

524 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:08:38pm

re: #510 NoSpam

yes, sometimes there will be articles which will be published (get past the editors) which later turn out to be "horror stories." (I recall one -- it dealt with "water" having "memory" -- oh boy -- talk about a fire storm...yikes..if I recall correctly, it was from some French lab -- and they could not replicate it.) I think the more reputable the journal, the tougher it is to even get published. (but, once you get a good reputation -- then, it becomes somewhat easier...)

525 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:08:39pm

re: #521 LSD

I agree, but that's why I used "ignorant"- they don't know, whether because they've just discovered we've been discussing this for over a week now, or they're lazy. Either way- it's ignorance.

526 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:08:58pm

re: #496 NoSpam

I didn't say genetics had anything to do with white nationalism, and based on the evidence I have seen, our notions of 'race' are purely cultural, not genetic. I do not have a problem with someone wanting to study 'race' purely for impartial scientific value, but I dislike the people who treat cultural differences like they are genetic differences. cultural=!genetic. And I reserve special hatred for people who shill for nonsense using phony science.

Okay, fine. In agreement. Here. Cultural differences are not 100% determined by genes. This is where the White Nationalists are wrong, if they believe that. That's a no brainer.

There's a reason Watson got shamed. I think the people doing the shaming went overboard, but there was a reason for it. It's stistical bunk that gives an idealological weapon to the loonies who want to warp science for their own ends.

I agree. Jackass thing to say. But the thing about IQ is not "statistical bunk" - it's a measured effect that is widely accepted and used. It affects the composition of the US military. Is the reason for measured IQ differences all genetic? No. Does IQ tests measure all aspects of intelligence? No. All humans are equally gifted but our creator also made us all unique.

I also didn't say people cant use the word 'race' even though I believe there is no such thing.

That's because you equate race with "racism" - arbitrary discrimination that favours the purportedly superior race. There is no superior race. Genetics support this.

As I highlighted with the link to Nature, you cannot deny the term race is used in the medical and genetic literature by scientists, even though it's a slipper concept.

Does that mean races exist? Like I said earlier, there is no absolute distinction between one and another group of humans.

But it has proved possible to group humans together based on genetic similarity. Of that there is no doubt.

Absolute races don't exist. With this we hit White Nationalist's out of the ballpark.

But observable differences in human genomes cannot be denied. Denying all differences (which to be fair you have'nt) makes you look an idiot! :)

527 Jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:09:38pm

Beagle

LOL

528 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:11:14pm

Once again, the quote from Charles' "Repugnant?" post from the other day:

“It sounds like they are trying to argue that Europe must unite under Christianity, for that is the only way to prevent the Islamic take-over..."

And that would be so bad? If only it were possible!

Europe is imploding underneath the weight of the two secularisms it has decided to choose from: a self-hating secularism of the PC left, or a blood-and-soil secularism of the extreme right.

In spite of Benedict's best efforts, it seems that Europeans (as a majority) see their choices as being between the two extremes. Maybe there's something more he could/should be doing. If so, I can't imagine what it is.

Lincoln was right. The United States of America is the last best hope for the world. Why? Because we're the only nation not founded on blood, but on an ideal.

Maybe the rest of the Anglosphere will join us for a last and honorable battle against Islamofascism in the name of the freedoms which are rightly the property of all men and women who love them and long for them. Apart from them and Israel, I don't see any other takers. And how do we win on the one front while fighting on the other against those in our midst who despise the Judeo-Christian foundations of the very freedoms for which we fight?

529 PIERRE_LEGRAND[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:11:24pm
530 rightymouse  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:13:13pm

Uhoh....

531 konservo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:13:34pm

re: #528 someguy

532 Dirk Diggler  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:13:34pm

Beagle,

If you think black chicks have badonkadonk butts it doesn't make you Hitler.

You got a problem with badonkadonk? Are you suffering from badonkadonkphobia?

533 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:14:30pm

re: #531 konservo
?

534 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:14:51pm

Wow, They all come out after dark.

535 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:15:14pm

re: #526 therewaslight

You don't have much by way of a scientific background, do you? Go look up the difference between a "genotype" and "phenotype." Go do that...for starters. And, btw, one more time -- your link to medical literature which used the term "race" -- IT WAS BEING USED AS A SOCIOLOGICAL category. For the nth time.

536 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:15:35pm

re: #477 hazzyday

9. Ten Steps to Fascism. [Link: [Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]...] A few of us here are guilty of this.

It sites George Bush as leading the way..
huh?!?!

537 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:15:55pm

re: #529 PIERRE_LEGRAND

Yes Pierre, we should just sleep ... ignore the facts and sleep.

(Note: Paul Belien's wife is a member of Vlaams Belang. I would think that this is relevant since we are discussing VB)

538 EC Marm  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:16:25pm

re: #534 Killgore Trout

Wow, They all come out after dark.


I was going to take a shower, now I have to wait. :~)

539 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:16:52pm

re: #532 Dirk Diggler

Sir Mixalot

540 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:17:03pm

re: #463 Charles

My observation is that a ripple has gone through the political blogoshere. Some of the inert lefty blogs have given a 'doh' and gone back to their isolationist navel inspecting. DailyKos doesn't even come close to this effect.

Some LGFers misunderstanding the blog and wanting personal fervor and rifle attacks and battle plans against the enemy have moved on to better places.

LGF is a unique blog that has done some actual good work in the world just via information dissemination and shedding light and logic on certain areas of the world that needed it.

LGF has evolved. Been through two evolutions that I am aware of. The highway has been broadened and the speed is faster.

I am puzzled by the members that seem to want to engage Charles personally in a negative method. Who knows maybe it is a personal emotional response that I will run into myself one day. It certainly has no relevance to the arguement.

I applaud the contributions of the lizards even the ones that so wrongly negative ding me and those that were banned but contributed to the evolutions.

I see the BJ totally misidentifying LGF. I read their commentors and they seem more to me like glass waiting to be shattered. Very brittle.

There is a need to shine this light and draw this Neo Nazi separating line that has either been ignored or not drawn narrowly enough. I will admit that I hardly ever thought about it. But I am now looking to draw it correctly.

541 konservo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:17:27pm

re: #528 someguy

Once again, the quote from Charles' "Repugnant?" post from the other day:

“It sounds like they are trying to argue that Europe must unite under Christianity, for that is the only way to prevent the Islamic take-over..."


And that would be so bad? If only it were possible!

I was the one who made this first comment (to which Charles added: that and racists like VB), so I want to emphasize that I have nothing against Christianity. The key words I used in that comment are "must" and "only."

542 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:17:31pm

re: #538 EC Marm

It's quite a freakshow.

543 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:18:08pm

re: #529 PIERRE_LEGRAND

Tell me do you attack leftists with the same vigor?

See the next Thread ...

544 Jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:19:14pm

PIERRE_LEGRAND 529

That is because you have a lot of reformed liberals on this site that have never, and will not ever admit they were raised in a racist ideology. You see that was for the trailer park trash, not sophisticates. That is why this subject is so virulent and so much smug absolutism pervades. They have found something that confirms the racism is all out there among the skin-heads so kill the beast. Meanwhile Islam is laughing as it prepares to gobble up another country.

545 straitcircle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:20:25pm

One of these Stalinist (or Nazi) principles is the principle of guilt by association. -- link
Both Stalin and NAZI were anti-liberal democracies, where free - speech was/is supposed to take place. It is hard to understand this confusing comment, because free-speech was restricted by both totalitarian systems here. NAZI sided with Palestinians on “race theory” against the Jews.

546 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:21:19pm

re: #536 allahakchew

I disagree with Naomi Wolf on every minute aspect of her post. I agree only with her bullet points. I am a major GWB supporter. Her content just made me laugh, but I understodd her gist. I just think her direction is more appropriate to the American Left than it is to GWB. I would never consider Guantamano a gulag. If i understand strawman correctly, that is all she is writing.

547 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:21:33pm

re: #511 Jehu

Boy, that was a whole lot of nothing.

548 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:23:20pm

re: #529 PIERRE_LEGRAND

Some how I'm not surprised that a statement of fact is labeled as an "attack" by you. I fail to see how pointing out facts about belien's wife is an attack. I fail to see how pointing out belien's use of his family to support his statements is an attack. Thou dost protest too much.

549 vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:23:28pm

Jehu, Islamists may be laughing now, but if VB gains enough ground to start a serious fight over there, it won't just be the Muslims they'll be kicking around.

550 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:24:05pm

re: #544 Jehu

That is because you have a lot of reformed liberals on this site that have never, and will not ever admit they were raised in a racist ideology. You see that was for the trailer park trash, not sophisticates. That is why this subject is so virulent and so much smug absolutism pervades. They have found something that confirms the racism is all out there among the skin-heads so kill the beast. Meanwhile Islam is laughing as it prepares to gobble up another country.

That's really ridiculous and unfair. I bet you have not looked over ANY of the evidence provided at the top of this thread.

551 Jehu  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:24:31pm

hous 547

Yeah, like all so untrue, just made it up.

552 Pvt Bin Jammin  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:25:59pm

re: #534 Killgore Trout

Wow, They all come out after dark.


Is it a full moon tonight as well?

553 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:26:00pm

re: #550 LSD

That seems to be the hallmark of the average VB/SD supporter.

554 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:26:09pm

re: #544 Jehu

Yeah. Thats it!
Thanks for clarifying that!
I have seen the light!

555 ubercheesehead  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:26:11pm

re: #477 hazzyday

Whoa! Your link to the Grauniad article (no that was not a typo) flew way over into BDS territory. Just to be clear, President Bush and the "angry young Republican thugs" are not instituting fascism in the United States. If you need recourse to an article like that to make your point, either you need to think your point through more carefully to support it with better reasoning, or you are actually straying into moonbat territory.

556 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:26:50pm

re: #552 Pvt Bin Jammin

No, that was about a week ago. But it is a Friday night.

557 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:27:31pm

re: #535 J.S.

re: #526 therewaslight

You don't have much by way of a scientific background, do you? Go look up the difference between a "genotype" and "phenotype." Go do that...for starters. And, btw, one more time -- your link to medical literature which used the term "race" -- IT WAS BEING USED AS A SOCIOLOGICAL category. For the nth time.

It was used in the medical literature. Since I deny absolute races exist, it's too slippery a concept to be defined, I could not have mean't it to be used in any other sense! You twisted my words. Anyway, race is popular shorthand catagory for a group of people with similar genetics. No absolute thing as "race" but it cannot be denied people can be grouped according to genetic similarity.

What is your point about genotype and phenotype? I feel a Lewontin fallacy coming on.

Come on, throw it. :)

558 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:28:01pm
559 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:28:33pm

re: #541 konservo

Konservo: I wasn't replying to your comment, and I'm sorry for not having read it.

I was replying to Charles' recent posts, and to my own experience of having lived in Italy for 14 years.

I was only expressing my desire for Europe to live up to the best of what it is, not the worst of what it could be (and has been in the recent past).

Now it seems as though it's chosen to revert to the recent past. And I don't have the words to tell you how sad that makes me; nor how disconnected that is with everyday life in a small Italian town where most people are sympathetic with America and Israel when they bother to think about these things at all. Talk about Hobbits!

560 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:28:36pm

re: #551 Jehu

No. It had nothing to do with my post or my point, you just went of in la la land.

561 Render  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:28:44pm

Claude Marinower...

TONIGHT,
R

562 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:28:49pm

re: #523 Highrise

I haven't gotten to the three videos you reccomended yet. I have seen some broad brushes here and when I went to look at the information I disagreed with the brush strokes. I guess again I have written poorly. I am not really fence sitting. I am in the pig slop dispersing apple peals along with everyone else. But occasionally someone trys to throw an apple away and I think "Hey that is still good". No accounting for peoples tastes.

563 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:28:50pm
Some LGFers misunderstanding the blog and wanting personal fervor and rifle attacks and battle plans against the enemy have moved on to better places.

Not possible.

564 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:29:24pm

re: #563 Sharmuta Agree, but probably better for them.

565 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:29:45pm

re: #558 jeppo

So anyone who thinks that this anti-VB witch hunt is going to influence the Flemish electorate is right: It plays right into their hands. Having a bunch of foreigners who know little or anything about their country criticize them viciously and endlessly tends to get peoples backs up. LGFers are inadvertently helping the VB with their attacks. Instead of criticizing and insulting Charles, maybe conservative nationalists and serious counterjihadis should be thanking him.


Again, you're telling us not to discuss the facts about VB's origins and ideology ... just ignore it. Really sad.

566 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:29:51pm

re: #550 LSD


No.
Already said he didn't.
What would be the point in that?

567 Beagle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:30:05pm

#544 Jehu

I think any time you start making generalizations about the entire website it's bound to blow up in your face. The talking about the way people were raised...

/I see red in your future.

568 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:30:06pm

What happened to "Fjordman"? I was reading some posts at the above link and someone mentioned him. Is he banned at LGF or was he taken to task over something? Anyone help to fill me in? Thanks.

569 ctrlL  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:30:14pm

re: #471 Charles

Lots of dramatic emails coming in, saying, "This is goodbye! You're off my list!"

Here's a good one:


>snip< These Europeans have had their culture rammed down their throats, taught to think of themselves as filth and criminals in their own country- and YOU piously take them to task for being anti-immigrant?!

I don't post often, but tonight I am compelled .... probably because I think so much of LGF and respect the posters here that I read voraciously on a daily basis. Thank you all, I have learned much valuable information and pass on to those I love.

This is the crux of the above statement, imo -
I think that the Europeans have gone through what we are going through now with our 'white guilt' complex issues; you know, CAIR, Rev. Al and Jesse J., ACLU, NOI, the MSM, esteemed Hollywood celebrities, etc., that we, as a PEOPLE, are BAD! We need to pay reparation, help Muslims (to practice a religion that is cultural and not religious at all), but scorn the Christians, accept and even listen to the message of Black Power that is behind every speech by Farrakhan, swallow the constant bias that distorts all news from any form of media and, THEN, for entertainment, go to a g-d movie that depicts "the real world" (Hollywood's defense). Even our kids are being corrupted (see post re: Delaware) at colleges and universities that we pay 10's of THOUSANDS of $$$$$$$$ for!
I think the Europeans have been there already as we have been warned by many respected authors. Many posters have stated that we, in the US, are on the curve behind Europe and others have warned that when we DO wake up, IT WILL NOT BE PRETTY. Well, guys, I guess we are looking at the results of what CAN happen to people when they become desperate. God help them (and us) to make the correct decisions and to tread carefully through this true quagmire.

/cue MSM "quagmire" here * X *

570 Straitcircle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:30:20pm

Again, NAZI sided with ( various – not all ) Islamic soldiers in the last year of WWII, they recruited them in the south-east theater— (3/4 of the total in that theater) they had no problem with this part of the “race theory.” Anti-Semitism is not the solution to fighting Islamoization of Europe. Anyone that cannot understand that has not read the links.

571 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:31:35pm

re: #558 jeppo

Consider that the Swiss political establishment, mass media, academia and every special interest group under the sun, not to mention the clueless foreign media, stomped all over the Swiss Peoples Party (SVP) before the recent election. All the usual leftist epithets were trotted out: Racist, sexist, anti-gay, xenophobic, fascist, Nazi, Islamophobic et cetera ad nauseam ad infinitum. Then the SVP not only greatly increased their vote and won the election, but received the highest vote percentage of any party in modern Swiss history.

So anyone who thinks that this anti-VB witch hunt is going to influence the Flemish electorate is right: It plays right into their hands. Having a bunch of foreigners who know little or anything about their country criticize them viciously and endlessly tends to get peoples backs up. LGFers are inadvertently helping the VB with their attacks. Instead of criticizing and insulting Charles, maybe conservative nationalists and serious counterjihadis should be thanking him.

Hey, that's good! You found a new way to spin it. Congrats.

572 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:32:01pm

re: #568 Eric Cartman's Conscience

He's been the ringleader of the VB/SD supporters here recently. I think he got tired of it and is taking a break.

573 stevieray  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:34:09pm

re: #539 Killgore Trout

re: #532 Dirk Diggler

Sir Mixalot

Sir Mixalot must be followed by Spock Daddy. Its the law.

574 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:34:25pm

re: #569 ctrlL

Well, guys, I guess we are looking at the results of what CAN happen to people when they become desperate.

Well said ...

575 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:34:25pm

re: #568 Eric Cartman's Conscience

He went all ad hominem on LGF. At least- it contributed to it. For a full explanation, you'd have to ask Charles.

576 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:34:41pm

nd theyre: #519 LSD

re: #503 allahakchew

If anyone doesn't care to read the links, watch the video's AND do their own damn research then so be it.
There is no excuse for "I didn't know" now.

Right On.

Thank you....

577 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:35:36pm

re: #568 Eric Cartman's Conscience

Fjordman wore himself out. He was here and arguing. And the personal attacks back and forth got his ego up and he starting addressing Charles forcefully to answer his questions and listen to his authority. Well that didn't go over well and I think he and Charles mutually parted ways. I like Fjordman, he writes well. The arguments hit a little too close to home to him and he was rocked a little bit. I don't think he expected the oppostion to his ideas that he found here. I believe you may find him at GoV and BJ now.

578 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:35:56pm

re: #572 Killgore Trout

You could say that.

579 J.S.  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:36:15pm

re: #571 Charles

Has Jeppo latched onto the concept of "reverse psychology?"

I still have to wonder...What's the reason for all of this? It makes no sense. (I have to laugh, I don't for a single moment think citizens of Belgium are hanging on with bated breath, desperate to know what LGF has to say about their local politicians...No offense, Charles, but this is wacky...)

580 PIERRE_LEGRAND[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:36:21pm
581 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:36:40pm

#572

Thanks Killgore.

582 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:37:01pm

re: #573 stevieray

Heh.

583 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:37:18pm

re: #544 Jehu

PIERRE_LEGRAND 529

That is because you have a lot of reformed liberals on this site that have never, and will not ever admit they were raised in a racist ideology. You see that was for the trailer park trash, not sophisticates. That is why this subject is so virulent and so much smug absolutism pervades. They have found something that confirms the racism is all out there among the skin-heads so kill the beast. Meanwhile Islam is laughing as it prepares to gobble up another country.

OMG.......lol.....

584 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:38:18pm

re: #572 Killgore Trout

re: #568 Eric Cartman's Conscience

He's been the ringleader of the VB/SD supporters here recently. I think he got tired of it and is taking a break.

He's taking a permanent break. After the misrepresentations he's posted about me and my views, despite being corrected many times, he's not welcome at LGF.

Example:

Fjordman: you're trying to undermine and destroy the anti-Islamization conference!

Me: No, I support the goals of the conference, but I believe it's wrong to ally ourselves with European political parties that have Nazi pasts.

And Fjordman is continuing to promote this distortion. It's been an eye-opener.

585 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:38:19pm

re: #578 Sharmuta

Huh, well that's not surprising. Charles endured about 2 weeks of personal insults from him.

586 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:38:48pm

re: #558 jeppo

You have no clue what this is all about do you?
None. Nada. Zilch.

The smears and the attacks came AGAINST Charles. He is DEFENDING himself.

Atlas said the same damn thing about VB last year.
That link has been posted here at least 10 times.

587 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:39:22pm

#575 S

Many thanks for the links. What a damn shame considering the amount of run and link traffic LGF sent his way.

588 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:39:24pm

re: #579 J.S.


Has Jeppo latched onto the concept of "reverse psychology?"


He's got us just where he wants us.

589 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:40:12pm

re: #580 PIERRE_LEGRAND

Else why would you be using the tactics of the left so enthusiastically?

Yeah- must be why Charles and LGFers are being called fascists for having doubts. In other words- I think the shoe's on the other foot.

Tell me- what name would you call an actual racist?

590 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:40:33pm

re: #558 jeppo

It's not about whether or not the VB get elected into power, or if we are helping them/hurting them.

It's about the fact that we don't want to be associated with them, and raising concerns about them being invited to counter-jihad conferences. We simply don't want the cause of fighting islamism to be tainted by association with racists.

591 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:41:19pm

re: #580 PIERRE_LEGRAND You sir, are seriously trippin'. (Don't wannna discuss them facts, do ya?)

592 konservo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:41:59pm

re: #559 someguy

No problem. Here is the original, the bj was trying to argue that Ayaan Hirsi Ali didn't deserve to be honored by Reader's Digest, one of the main points was the fact that she is not Christian. They then attack her because

“She believes that she can help change the lives of Muslim women and, ultimately, the climate that breeds extremism,”


Since she does not try to impose Christianity on people, the bj states:

"Perhaps, as an inevitable consequence of this, Europe will become Muslim"


To me, this is nonsense, and counterproductive. One need not be Christian to take a stand against Islamic extremism.

593 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:42:09pm
594 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:42:54pm

re: #585 Killgore Trout

I agree, and he doesn't need to tolerate it in his own house if he doesn't want to. fjordman has his own place where he can do whatever he pleases and launch all the attacks and BS arguments he wants.

595 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:43:48pm

re: #593 jeppo

Love the new meme.

596 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:44:02pm

re: #593 jeppo

No, no, please reread the post. I'm saying by constantly attacking the VB, you are inadvertently helping them. And as a VB supporter, I say keep it up.

Don't worry. I will.

597 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:44:22pm

re: #529 PIERRE_LEGRAND

re: #450 nickpicker I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before, but as it just so happens Paul Belien's wife is a member of Vlaams Belang, which is one of the reaons why Belien's family has been put under pressure for trying to home-school their children. But if you read the relevant articles at brusselsjournal.com Mr Belien makes it seem that, somehow, his family was being prosecuted for being individualistic and anti-big-government, a clear attempt to lure the US audience of his blog into believing that he's some kind of Reaganite.

Wow now you are attacking the mans family...cute. Tell me do you attack leftists with the same vigor? You do understand that in this country we respect the right of people to speak their minds. That the Europeans are foolish enough to take that right away does not mean we should join them in criminalizing their behavior.

This is just stunning the amount of vitriol and bile flying around here. Its almost like everyone is trying to outdo each other in how NOT RACIST you are. Well guess what LGF'ers you are racist....most universities agree that most whites are racist. Seeing how easy it is to fling around the racist label here in the states it is amazing how eager folks are around here to fling it themselves.

Perchance are you one that is pushing re-programming university students.....

598 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:44:40pm

re: #583 allahakchew

...and the truth is nothing better would help the Jihad then the anti-jihad movement associating with a small white supremecist political group.

599 rightymouse  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:44:49pm

#593 jeppo

No, no, please reread the post. I'm saying by constantly attacking the VB, you are inadvertently helping them. And as a VB supporter, I say keep it up.

Nice try.

600 ctrlL  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:44:58pm

re: #574 LSD

Thank you . It just seems like this kerfuffle has been begging to happen .....
sad, because we need to have friends in the same corner and the arena appears to be octagonal at this point !

601 Lauraf  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:45:05pm

re: #453 jehu

Charles 431


My whole point is, and has always been, that for the counter-jihad movement to associate with these groups is both morally wrong and politically suicidal.

No you have not said anything like that, it is being said repeatedly by posters on this thread. I agree if this party is determined to wed themselves to skin-heads then they need to be exposed for what they are and any sort of movement like this must be stopped. I only want to know if we are demanding a racial sensitivity that Europe cannot produce. I guess I am looking at the distinction of pride of race versus racism, perhaps a fine distinction, but one I think exists.

Yeah, he has. How can you say what he has and hasn't said when by your own admission you haven't read all the threads on this topic?

602 zygazint  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:45:26pm

re: #113 Peacekeeper

Chitty Chitty Vlaams Belang

lol!

603 gman  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:46:22pm

re: #529 PIERRE_LEGRAND

re: #450 nickpicker I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before, but as it just so happens Paul Belien's wife is a member of Vlaams Belang, which is one of the reaons why Belien's family has been put under pressure for trying to home-school their children. But if you read the relevant articles at brusselsjournal.com Mr Belien makes it seem that, somehow, his family was being prosecuted for being individualistic and anti-big-government, a clear attempt to lure the US audience of his blog into believing that he's some kind of Reaganite.

Wow now you are attacking the mans family...cute. Tell me do you attack leftists with the same vigor? You do understand that in this country we respect the right of people to speak their minds. That the Europeans are foolish enough to take that right away does not mean we should join them in criminalizing their behavior.

This is just stunning the amount of vitriol and bile flying around here. Its almost like everyone is trying to outdo each other in how NOT RACIST you are. Well guess what LGF'ers you are racist....most universities agree that most whites are racist. Seeing how easy it is to fling around the racist label here in the states it is amazing how eager folks are around here to fling it themselves.

Have you ever faced reality Pierre or have you spent all of your years sitting in these "universities" you are talking about, sucking up their crap like a sponge?

604 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:47:05pm

re: #600 ctrlL

Eight men enter! One man leaves!

605 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:47:13pm

re: #592 konservo

One need not be Christian to take a stand against Islamic extremism.

Not at all, and Benedict is proof of that. And it seems from recent developments in the Vatican (which Charles has posted; i.e., the letter from the 138) that his vision is influencing the rest of the usually pro-Muslim anti-Israel Curia.

Like I said on a thread yesterday, though, either he's not doing enough, he's not doing it quickly enough, or else Europe is too far gone to hear, understand, and put into practice what he's saying.

And what makes it all the more sad is that it is the MPs in the Euro Parliament, Euro Duma, or whatever the hell it's called, that don't represent actual Europeans or give a damn about what they want or think. My Italian wife would tell you the same.

606 ctrlL  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:48:35pm

re: #604 Truumax

LOL
**ROFLMAO

607 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:48:48pm
608 MJ  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:48:52pm

re: #580 PIERRE_LEGRAND

So the leg work for this latest attack came from the ADL...hmmm. Coulter has a few things to say about the ADL. I suppose there must be a whiff of Anti Semitism coming from her as well?'

"Doth protest too much"
Btw the insinuations of guilt here are astounding. There really are a bunch of leftists who got mugged by reality here eh? Else why would you be using the tactics of the left so enthusiastically?


The Anti-Defamation League is to Jews what the National Organization for Women is to women and the ACLU is to civil libertarians. They represent not Jews or women or civil libertarians, but the left wing of the Democratic Party.

In the paramount threat of our time, the Democratic Party is AWOL. And those are the patriotic Democrats. The rest are actively aiding the enemy.

The blood of millions of Israelis is at stake, and the ADL is flacking for a party that yearns to surrender to the terrorists.

To hide the dirty little secret of the left's burgeoning anti-Semitism, liberals act as if they live in abject terror of right-wingers. When it comes to conservatives, the Anti-Defamation League is the Pro-Defamation League.

For decades, most Jews supported the left, and the left supported Jewish causes. But the left moved on long ago. For liberals, Jews are just so "last Holocaust."

The ADL gently chided Columbia University for making the "mistake" of inviting a genocidal, Holocaust-denying Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to speak. It tepidly criticized Ahmadinejad's speech for being "a charade of half-answers and obfuscation." That sounds like a fair description of Hillary's current stump speech.

The ADL and its ilk reserve their real venom for a beast like Dennis Prager -- a leading Jewish intellectual, author and radio talk show host. Last year, Prager made the manifestly obvious point that the first Muslim congressman, Keith Ellison, should take his oath of office not on a Quran, but on a Bible, in recognition of "the value system (that) underlies American civilization."

Actually, yes, Coulter was involved in more than a whiff of antisemitism recently. The ADL called her on it. She didn't like it. In my opinion, the ADL was right in that instance. She's a bigot.
The ADL is also right about the facts of VB.

The ADL seems to be under attack by most of the same folks who are defending VB/SD here. That's not to say that the ADL is always correct or that Abe Foxman has been a leader for the ADL, but something tells me much of this criticism is cover for something else.

609 vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:49:03pm
One need not be Christian to take a stand against Islamic extremism.

No, but if you want your society to be strong against Islamic extremism, Judaeo-Christianity is probably essential. Hedonists are too short-sighted.

610 LSD  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:49:35pm

re: #593 jeppo

No, no, please reread the post. I'm saying by constantly attacking the VB, you are inadvertently helping them. And as a VB supporter, I say keep it up.

And that's why VB's founders and ideology shouldn't be discussed?

This will play out for a bit longer, I should think, until the full truth is out there for better or worse. The Truth is freedom.

611 ctrlL  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:50:14pm

re: #606 ctrlL
Addendum:
Not really funny in retrospect ............

612 Lauraf  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:50:54pm

re: #456 therewaslight

re: #435 NoSpam


I do not want a Eurabia. I also do not want a Fourth Reich. So I will choose my allies carefully.

By "carefully" you mean demonise and server links with all scientists of human behaviour, even if they oppose White Nationalism and anti-semitism - as well as anyone who mentions the word "race" in text in an attempt to expose their fallacies?

That sounds very careful. And rational.

You're not very good at putting words into other people's mouths -- it's blatantly obvious. Why don't you discuss what people actually say?

613 MJ  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:51:52pm

re: #608 MJ

re: #580 PIERRE_LEGRAND


So the leg work for this latest attack came from the ADL...hmmm. Coulter has a few things to say about the ADL. I suppose there must be a whiff of Anti Semitism coming from her as well?'

"Doth protest too much"
Btw the insinuations of guilt here are astounding. There really are a bunch of leftists who got mugged by reality here eh? Else why would you be using the tactics of the left so enthusiastically?


The Anti-Defamation League is to Jews what the National Organization for Women is to women and the ACLU is to civil libertarians. They represent not Jews or women or civil libertarians, but the left wing of the Democratic Party.
In the paramount threat of our time, the Democratic Party is AWOL. And those are the patriotic Democrats. The rest are actively aiding the enemy.

The blood of millions of Israelis is at stake, and the ADL is flacking for a party that yearns to surrender to the terrorists.

To hide the dirty little secret of the left's burgeoning anti-Semitism, liberals act as if they live in abject terror of right-wingers. When it comes to conservatives, the Anti-Defamation League is the Pro-Defamation League.

For decades, most Jews supported the left, and the left supported Jewish causes. But the left moved on long ago. For liberals, Jews are just so "last Holocaust."

The ADL gently chided Columbia University for making the "mistake" of inviting a genocidal, Holocaust-denying Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to speak. It tepidly criticized Ahmadinejad's speech for being "a charade of half-answers and obfuscation." That sounds like a fair description of Hillary's current stump speech.

The ADL and its ilk reserve their real venom for a beast like Dennis Prager -- a leading Jewish intellectual, author and radio talk show host. Last year, Prager made the manifestly obvious point that the first Muslim congressman, Keith Ellison, should take his oath of office not on a Quran, but on a Bible, in recognition of "the value system (that) underlies American civilization."


Actually, yes, Coulter was involved in more than a whiff of antisemitism recently. The ADL called her on it. She didn't like it. In my opinion, the ADL was right in that instance. She's a bigot.
The ADL is also right about the facts of VB.

The ADL seems to be under attack by most of the same folks who are defending VB/SD here. That's not to say that the ADL is always correct or that Abe Foxman has been a leader for the ADL, but something tells me much of this criticism is cover for something else.

Left out a word:
"...has been a (good) leader

614 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:51:57pm
615 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:52:22pm

re: #592 konservoNo, one need not be Christian to reply to Islamist extremism. In fact Franz Rosenzweig replied to it with exceptional foresight.

The problem is that the Euro-elites listen to the prophetic voice of Jews in about the same way as they listen to the Pope. Which is to say hardly at all.

616 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:52:37pm

I must confess I often blasted Fjordman with the simplistic "Europe is doomed" trope that he complained about in the 10/28 thread. I didn't want to read his constant "alarmist" posts (even those not so alarmist) if all he was going to do was write and not "do something." What that "something" would substantively be I have no real idea. And a part of me has always thought Europe needed to get off its arse without really considering exactly what that might mean. For example - that march outside No.10 London with the "behead those who insult Islam" chaps. I mentioned I was disappointed no rowdy band of futbol hooligans took it upon themselves to wrap up in the St. George's Cross flags and commence with some ugly ass-whooping. It's a quick one-off comment, but what does it mean exactly? The VB look to maybe want to become the futbol hooligans. I'm unsure what to think of that considering their agenda might be little different from those they'd confront. I fear, though, that the VB-type might convince himself there is no other way. What then?

617 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:52:47pm

Kinda wondering to you VB supporters, how you think your views are going to go over with the US and Allied servicemen who are not white actually fighting the Jihad in Iraq, Somalia, and the Stan?

618 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:53:03pm

re: #611 ctrlL

aaaw

619 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:53:42pm

Note that Fjordman posted one comment saying he was disturbed by one of the videos of Filip DeWinter I posted.

Then he refused to clarify what he meant, despite being challenged several times on it.

Fjordman is probably not a bad guy. But he seems to have convinced himself that he needs to embrace bad guys to achieve a good end.

It's an old story in human history, and it never ends well.

620 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:54:12pm
621 Vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:54:55pm

Poor Europeans. Islamic fascism is at least a solution to their self-loathing, distractions, and ennui.

622 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:58:37pm

re: #616 Eric Cartman's Conscience

I fear, though, that the VB-type might convince himself there is no other way. What then?

It has already happened. The trial concluded a few weeks ago....
Belgium: Racist murderer linked to Flemish nationalists

After his arrest, van Themsche told prosecutors that he “sympathised with the extreme right side” of Belgian politics. Although not a member of VB, he grew up schooled in its racist politics. His father, a local party leader, was a founding member of Vlaams Blok (Flemish Bloc), the party’s precursor. Van Themsche’s Aunt Frieda is currently a VB MP in the Flemish regional government. His grandfather was a member of the Waffen SS on the Eastern Front during the Second World War.

623 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:58:52pm

re: #615 someguy

The problem is that the Euro-elites listen to the prophetic voice of Jews in about the same way as they listen to the Pope. Which is to say hardly at all.

I think the real problem here is this movement of anti-judgmentalism. It's wrong to judge- who are we to judge? Never mind that judgment has kept the human race alive all these years. Once judgment is deemed a liability, there is no need for a moral authority because morals dictate our judgments, and we've dispersed with the judgments. That and euro-leftists have deemed themselves the only moral authority, so why listen to the Pope, or Americans?

624 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:59:34pm

Charles,

This is an extremely exploitable situation. Anybody and everybody can take shots at whoever, Left, right, islamofascist.

Saddam, the Mullah's, islamist's, left, multi's...have a great deal of their strategy based upon separation of, what should be, natural allies. For example: Ahmadinejad Warns Europe against Compliance with US Policies

To what end? One-Sided Sanctions Prove US Isolation(Fars, print version).

An issue everyone should keep in mind.

625 Red Pencil  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 6:59:37pm

re: #614 jeppo

That's quite sad that Fjordman isn't welcome here anymore. I know he was a bit pissy with you Charles and said as much. But you must admit the man is a brilliant thinker and writer. I wish he was here defending the pro-VB majority position within the counterjihadosphere.

I hope the "pro-VB majority position within the counterjihadosphere" is something like the "pro-Ron Paul majority position within the sillyinternetpollosphere".

626 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:00:00pm

re: #580 PIERRE_LEGRAND


READ ALL of the damn links....geeesh

627 Lauraf  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:01:20pm

re: #504 J.S.

re: #496 NoSpam

You are on the mark! Correct! Correct! Correct! (It's the pseudo-scientists who keep wishing to use "race" as something other than a sociological category. "Race" is not a biological category. sociological, yes; biological, no.)

This isn't 100% true. In forensic anthropology, gross "racial categories" are used in skeletal identification.

628 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:03:01pm

re: #619 Charles

I also found it odd that he really wouldn't debate any of the evidence. I suspect he knows it's morally indefensible.

629 ctrlL  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:03:05pm

re: #619 Charles

"Fjordman is probably not a bad guy. But he seems to have convinced himself that he needs to embrace bad guys to achieve a good end."

Charles,
It seems to me, a lowly infrequent poster who is very concerned about our country, that the Europeans have reached a point of desperation ... as many posters here have so eloquently stated, it ain't going to be pretty if things go much further here. I think that Europe has passed that enigmatic 'tipping point'.

630 Vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:04:05pm

Let's say you're pro-Flanders but not pro-Nazi. What do you do? Sit out any elections as a protest? It's a genuine question.

631 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:04:17pm
632 zygazint  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:04:50pm

re: #624 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

Charles,

This is an extremely exploitable situation. Anybody and everybody can take shots at whoever, Left, right, islamofascist.

Saddam, the Mullah's, islamist's, left, multi's...have a great deal of their strategy based upon separation of, what should be, natural allies. For example: Ahmadinejad Warns Europe against Compliance with US Policies

To what end? One-Sided Sanctions Prove US Isolation(Fars, print version).

An issue everyone should keep in mind.

You're right.

633 konservo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:04:57pm

re: #609 vittorio

re: #615 someguy

There are universal truths that are part of, but not exclusive to, Judeo-Christian theology, C.S. Lewis' The Abolition of Man deals with this. These are common-sense truths like the Golden Rule, and I think that if folks can live decent and peaceful lives, then it does not matter what (if any) religion they practice.

634 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:05:02pm

re: #614 jeppo

A bit pissy? Is that what you call it?

Hogwash.

635 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:05:20pm

#622 KT

Wow! And that was in 2006. Apparently Fjordmans post wasn't the only thing I missed. I'd thank you for the link but it's an awful one. I completely missed that story last summer.

636 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:06:53pm

re: #635 Eric Cartman's Conscience

It a recent example of what happens when children are raised in that kind of environment. I'm afraid we'll be seeing more of this.

637 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:07:26pm

re: #624 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

This is an extremely exploitable situation.

Must be why opportunists are making their move, huh?

638 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:08:16pm
639 gman  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:09:34pm

re: #620 jeppo

re: #590 Truumax

re: #558 jeppo

It's not about whether or not the VB get elected into power, or if we are helping them/hurting them.

It's about the fact that we don't want to be associated with them, and raising concerns about them being invited to counter-jihad conferences. We simply don't want the cause of fighting islamism to be tainted by association with racists.

Fair enough, Truumax.

LGF is defining itself here. This is not a pretty process but then again who wants to be affiliated with a water- blogged blobbity blog that has no convictions whatsoever.

640 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:10:05pm

re: #633 konservo

There are universal truths that are part of, but not exclusive to, Judeo-Christian theology, C.S. Lewis' The Abolition of Man deals with this. These are common-sense truths like the Golden Rule, and I think that if folks can live decent and peaceful lives, then it does not matter what (if any) religion they practice.

How would they then go about doing this? Apart from the Decalogue and the Beatitudes?

Even avowed secularists like Marcello Pera, Jurgen Habermas, and (requiscat in pace) Oriana Fallici were/are convinced that the only way for our civilization and culture to survive was to embrace the Judeo-Christian values on which it is founded.

641 Vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:10:07pm

konservo

Those universal truths are thin soup. You won't die if you eat it, but you won't thrive, either. We're talking about a strong alternative to Islam that is flexible, productive, and just.

642 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:11:08pm
643 Beagle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:11:42pm

While we're confessing provoking Fjordman, I passed on something I read in a book about Patton and Rommel, I think. Something to the effect that good leadership skills, leading from the front, mostly got you killed in WWI. Bravery was suicide that sort of thing. Geez. I'm an anti-European racist.

644 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:11:57pm
645 nickpicker  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:12:57pm

re: #558 jeppo

Consider that the Swiss political establishment, mass media, academia and every special interest group under the sun, not to mention the clueless foreign media, stomped all over the Swiss Peoples Party (SVP) before the recent election. All the usual leftist epithets were trotted out: Racist, sexist, anti-gay, xenophobic, fascist, Nazi, Islamophobic et cetera ad nauseam ad infinitum. Then the SVP not only greatly increased their vote and won the election, but received the highest vote percentage of any party in modern Swiss history.

Take a look at this billboard that the SVP used in the last election:

[Link: hontedelasuisse.googlepages.com...]

This is not a metaphor. It depicts a dark skinned man trying to "steal" the Suisse citizenship.

How is this not racist?

646 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:13:33pm

re: #641 Vittorio
Yeah. And the real kick in the head is that all the riches and goodies that we have today are the fruits of a civilization founded on the notion that everything in the Bible was literally true.

Thank G-d we don't believe in that crap anymore.

647 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:16:38pm

re: #516 Sharmuta

If some people are still on the fence on this issue it is because they are either ignorant or duplicitous, imo.

Ha Ha. I don't spend the amount of time here you do. I just get to a point where I am all ready to declare myself totally against these guys and someone says something i think is too broad.

648 konservo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:17:31pm

re: #640 someguy

How would they then go about doing this?

I think that the Founding Fathers (no, I'm not a Paulian) did a pretty good job of spelling it out without specifically referring to any Church doctrine.

649 Vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:17:32pm

Wikipedia:

Voting is compulsory in Belgium (more than 90% of the population participates). Belgian voters are given five options when voting. They may:

* Vote for a list as a whole, thereby showing approval of the order established by the party;
* Vote for one or more individual candidates, regardless of his/her ranking on the list (a "preference vote");
* Vote for one or more of the "alternates" (substitutes);
* Vote for one or more candidates, and one or more alternates;
* Vote invalid or blank so no one receives the vote.

While there are some options to vote on more than one person, it should be noted that voters cannot vote for candidates of more than one candidate list (party). Doing so makes the vote invalid.

650 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:18:29pm

re: #645 nickpicker

They also had a poster depicting three white sheep kicking a black sheep out of the pen. That's... well, that's just vile.

Immigrants - the black sheep of society. Oh, and they're black.

651 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:18:38pm
652 ctrlL  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:19:00pm

Just thought of an analogy that may provide some clarity here -

Think about the divide in the US now. The Left vs. Right stuff (yes, I know we are all very different persuasions here). The Left has always been more vocal than the Right (as in Europe). Now, think about what we have seen the Left (desperate as they are) embrace to enhance their numbers and voice. BINGO ! Alliances that do not make sense, but, all the same, they are reality in this inverted/inside-out/divided world.

** and the Mullahs are laughing **

653 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:19:32pm
654 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:20:21pm

re: #592 konservo


Since she does not try to impose Christianity on people, the bj states:

"Perhaps, as an inevitable consequence of this, Europe will become Muslim"


To me, this is nonsense, and counterproductive. One need not be Christian to take a stand against Islamic extremism.

I'm agree with the argument you really do need to be Christian or come from a society with Judeo-Christian past, or have read literature from such a society if you don't actually live in the society, to fight radical Islam.

What Paul Belien calls "secular hedonism" is a cultural dead end. For example, humanists. They are on our side but they're not going to be much help over subsequent generations because secularists have fewer babies than the religious. Secularism = cultural suicide.

That's no reason to make enemies of secular allies while they're still here. Secularists tend to be snooty and elitist which is very off-putting but it does not make them any less of a tool.

I simply do not understand why BJ, Fjordman and many other Euros would ally with those who can only be their enemy - the race fascists. It seems to me Europe's answer to the Islamists is being written right under Paul Belien's nose - the European Union.

The European Union is a dangerous, unweildy, unrepresentative institution that will become Target A for both the Islamists and race fascists. Where the Islamists will attempt to get into the EU Council and Parliament with bomb jackets, the fascists will walk in with suit and ties.

When that happens those who supported them may find they no longer have control over events.

655 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:21:06pm

re: #653 jeppo

how about this one, jeppo?

[Link: farm2.static.flickr.com...]

656 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:21:32pm

re: #617 hous bin pharteen

Kinda wondering to you VB supporters, how you think your views are going to go over with the US and Allied servicemen who are not white actually fighting the Jihad in Iraq, Somalia, and the Stan?

re: #598 hous bin pharteen

re: #583 allahakchew

...and the truth is nothing better would help the Jihad then the anti-jihad movement associating with a small white supremecist political group.

Exactly, CAIR, ACLU, etc. would go on a feeding frenzy...

657 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:21:53pm

re: #648 konservo
Fair enough. But they did refer to a Creator who endowed Man with inalianalbe rights. What basis is there for those rights apart from a Creator? And if there is not a basis for those rights apart from a Creator, then what faith lays claim to him?

658 nickpicker  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:22:39pm

re: #650 Truumax

re: #645 nickpicker

They also had a poster depicting three white sheep kicking a black sheep out of the pen. That's... well, that's just vile.

Immigrants - the black sheep of society. Oh, and they're black.

Exactly. Back then a number of conservative blogs, including hotair.com, tried to paint the billboard as some kind of over-the-top "metaphor". It's not. These people mean it.

It should also be noted that just recently in a public vote a Suisse town denied permanent residents from Yugoslavia naturalization.

Most of the applicants were Catholic or Orthodox Christians, not Muslims.

The new European crypto-fascists front is not about "preserving European culture". It's xenophobia in maquerade.

659 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:22:42pm

Woops, don't know how I got a double.....

660 Vittorio  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:22:46pm

Elections in Belgium only last a month. Is it possible for your average voter to vet the backgrounds of individual candidates? I'm skeptical. It's easy to slip bad eggs into the basket.

661 straitcircle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:23:05pm

re: #619 Charles

[...] have convinced himself that he needs to embrace bad guys to achieve a good end. [...]


Reminds me of a story of how Joeph Stalin was writing for “Pravda,” and he was about to write a scathing condemnation of the idiot V.I. Lenin and his Bolsheviks ( early stage of the Marxist-Leninist revolution) . Instead, he sat silent for a week, contemplating if so. Then he changed his mind and wrote a praiseworthy tribute to the Marxist – mediocre-intellectual - revolutionary, Lenin. Soon after the article, Lenin made Stalin a top official in his party -- The rest is history, as they would say.

662 therewaslight  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:23:58pm

Sorry, my last post was rubbish. Tied. Got to go to bed. Night.

663 Salamantis  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:24:37pm

To the tune of Black Betty...;~)

Whoa, Paul Belian!
Vlaam Belang!
Whoa, Paul Belian!
Vlaam Belang!
He is a Belgi-an
Vlaam Belang!
Way down in Euroland
Vlamm Belang!
Hugs racist bands
Vlaam Belang!
Slags Charles for noble stands
Vlaam Belang!
Haza VB wife
Vlaam Belang!
Don't want no bedroom strife
Rather hug them thugs
Vlaam Belang!
Than get kicked onto the rig!
Vlaam Belang!
Whoa, Paul Belian!
Vlaam Belang!
Just WHOAAAAA!

664 swamprat  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:25:23pm

re: #652 ctrlL

Just thought of an analogy that may provide some clarity here -

Think about the divide in the US now. The Left vs. Right stuff (yes, I know we are all very different persuasions here). The Left has always been more vocal than the Right (as in Europe). Now, think about what we have seen the Left (desperate as they are) embrace to enhance their numbers and voice. BINGO ! Alliances that do not make sense, but, all the same, they are reality in this inverted/inside-out/divided world.

** and the Mullahs are laughing **


I'm not going to drink poison if I know that there is water in it also. ..No matter how thirsty I get....This thing is a rattlesnake. I cannot think of a better way to discredit ourselves.

665 nickpicker  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:25:36pm

re: #653 jeppo

re: #645 nickpicker

re: #558 jeppo


Consider that the Swiss political establishment, mass media, academia and every special interest group under the sun, not to mention the clueless foreign media, stomped all over the Swiss Peoples Party (SVP) before the recent election. All the usual leftist epithets were trotted out: Racist, sexist, anti-gay, xenophobic, fascist, Nazi, Islamophobic et cetera ad nauseam ad infinitum. Then the SVP not only greatly increased their vote and won the election, but received the highest vote percentage of any party in modern Swiss history.


Take a look at this billboard that the SVP used in the last election:[Link: hontedelasuisse.googlepages.com...]

This is not a metaphor. It depicts a dark skinned man trying to "steal" the Suisse citizenship.

How is this not racist?

Take another look at the hands in the picture. They include every hue from white to black. It was groundless cries of racism like this that propelled the SVP to newfound heights.

Well, if you want to play that game - 3 out of 5 hands are darker skinned. Switzerland, as a matter of fact, has most of her naturalization applicants come from white skinned countries.

QED

666 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:26:27pm

re: #562 hazzyday

re: #523 Highrise

I haven't gotten to the three videos you reccomended yet. I have seen some broad brushes here and when I went to look at the information I disagreed with the brush strokes. I guess again I have written poorly. I am not really fence sitting. I am in the pig slop dispersing apple peals along with everyone else. But occasionally someone trys to throw an apple away and I think "Hey that is still good". No accounting for peoples tastes.

You are making excuses. You are in practically all these threads arguing both sides which is fence sitting.

You aren't fooling me..it's actually a bit on the insulting side if you wish to use the *time* defense after our discussion yesterday. You can take time right now and go view them.

667 Orde  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:26:54pm

re: #490 Truumax

Sorry Truumax, I accidentally clicked the minus instead of the "Reply" link--but yeah, nazism is so incomprehensibly evil that I regularly make a point of reminding myself of it--I'll visit the Holocaust Museum or watch a Holocaust movie, my Amazon Holocaust movie list here for ideas. A powerful one based on a true story and which deals with both abortion and the Holocaust is Out of the Ashes, my local Blockbuster has it.

668 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:27:47pm

re: #658 nickpicker

It should also be noted that just recently in a public vote a Suisse town denied permanent residents from Yugoslavia naturalization.

Most of the applicants were Catholic or Orthodox Christians, not Muslims.

The new European crypto-fascists front is not about "preserving European culture". It's xenophobia in maquerade.

And that's exactly why I'm so sad for Europe, and for what I see as Benedict's well-intentioned but ultimately doomed appeal to Europe's Christian conscience (or what's left of it).

The more I read Charles' recent posts, the more I think that--at least in the near future--Europe will tear itself to pieces between the two secularisms that dominate its cultural and political elite. Actual Europeans--the ones who want an honest day's work and to live in peace and quiet with their families--will be the ones who suffer from the battle, and from the Muslim-imposed nuclear winter that will surely follow.

669 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:28:00pm

re: #637 Sharmuta

Are there opportunists 'making a move?' You tell me.

Actually both Charles and Paul could tell quite quickly.

That's it for me, time for my few hours sleep - or hopefully so.

670 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:28:00pm
671 konservo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:28:59pm

re: #657 someguy

re: #648 konservo
Fair enough. But they did refer to a Creator who endowed Man with inalianalbe rights. What basis is there for those rights apart from a Creator?

The basis that those rights are inherent in every human being It does not matter whether he or she believes in a Creator or not, the rights are inalienable.

672 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:29:16pm

this is completely OT, but OMG IT'S SNOWING! First snow of the year! Woooo!

And with that, I take my leave for the night.

/G'nite everyone!

673 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:30:20pm

re: #647 hazzyday

You were the one saying you were fence sitting:

re: #498 hazzyday

re: #485 Charles

Yes it is odd that he would argue this way. You would assume he is doing it to gauge his audience. The Gay photo seems to me to be strictly out of the Fascist dirty tricks books. As I have said, I am fence sitting a little bit, but with just given a little rope the VB people are hanging themselves easily. If this argument gains wider traction in the MSM we will see how much more rope they pull. I would like to see the WSJ weigh in on this. It is amusing to me that the leftitudes don't want to weigh in on this because they see themselves reflected in the VB people.

So which is it? Fence sitter or against "these guys"? Quit being disingenuous.

674 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:30:22pm

re: #622 Killgore Trout

From your link:
VB, like the Vlaams Blok before it, is a far-right Flemish nationalist party that calls for the separation of the economically dominant Dutch-speaking north of Belgium from the rest of the country. It argues that the 1830 Belgian state was “artificial” and bases its proposed “independent Flemish state” on linguistic identity. It also lays claim to the Belgian capital Brussels, a French-speaking city in the centre of the Dutch-speaking region.

I can see where Flemish independence from the rest of Belgium is of utmost importance to the success of our fight against Islamo-fascism!
I mean, how can we possibly defeat a world wide movement if Belgium controls the north of its country?

675 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:31:26pm

re: #622 Killgore Trout

re: #616 Eric Cartman's Conscience


I fear, though, that the VB-type might convince himself there is no other way. What then?

It has already happened. The trial concluded a few weeks ago....
Belgium: Racist murderer linked to Flemish nationalists

After his arrest, van Themsche told prosecutors that he “sympathised with the extreme right side” of Belgian politics. Although not a member of VB, he grew up schooled in its racist politics. His father, a local party leader, was a founding member of Vlaams Blok (Flemish Bloc), the party’s precursor. Van Themsche’s Aunt Frieda is currently a VB MP in the Flemish regional government. His grandfather was a member of the Waffen SS on the Eastern Front during the Second World War.


This is exactly why the anti-jihad movement can't afford to be connected in any way to this group..............

676 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:31:55pm
677 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:34:14pm

re: #671 konservo

The basis that those rights are inherent in every human being It does not matter whether he or she believes in a Creator or not, the rights are inalienable.

And yet the Founding Fathers refered to just such a Creator.

So without a Creator, what is the basis for such inalianable rights other than the sheer will to power? What proof do you have that such rights are inherent in every human being?

678 Salamantis  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:34:27pm

Let us not allow ourselves to be divided according to religious preference, but rather let us continue to unite around our common pursuit of liberty and justice for all...including religious liberty.

I am a Pagan. I know something about religious intolerance. Knowing what I know, I would never practice it, and will continue to oppose those who do. Chief among them being the Islamofascists.

We fight and die for America in Afghanistan and Iraq just like other Americans, and our blood flows no less red than anyone else's. Pagan Pentacles can now be found on the headstones of fallen soldiers in military cemetaries, and belong there no less than do Christian Crosses and Jewish Stars, or any other religious symbol of the faith of someone who has given their last full measure of devotion for the freedoms which we all so dearly cherish.

679 Promethea  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:36:03pm

re: #282 jeppo

Those who dump all over the VB (and offer no alternative) are implicitly supporting the thoroughly corrupt, anti-American, pro-Palestinian dhimm-witted Belgian establishment. Perfectly embodied by Brussels' thuggish mayor Freddy Thielemans and his majority-Muslim socialist city councilors, they've instituted a so-called cordon sanitaire around the VB so that hundreds of democratically elected VB officials have no say in any government big or small anywhere in the country.

Anti-democratic nonsense like this would be tolerated for about two seconds in the US or anywhere else in the English-speaking world. And don't forget about the 9/11/07 Brussels police riot where Thielemans' stormtroopers attacked and brutalized suit-and-tie wearing elected officials peacefully protesting the Islamization of Europe. Now tell me, who are the real fascists?

Surely Belgians can find a way to oppose Islamofascism and sharia without making the appeal a racist one. Maybe Europeans should devote some serious time to studying U.S. history to see how we've built democratic institutions from the ground up. Surely there is something to be learned from a multiracial country like the U.S.

680 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:36:26pm

re: #672 Truumax

Snow? Isn't this late for you?

Sweet dreams, and thank you so much for your input.

681 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:37:12pm

re: #674 hous bin pharteen

HA!

682 rightymouse  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:37:23pm

I get the feeling that white Belgians have been so drenched in self-loathing indoctrination that they've decided that the only way to overcome this is to hate anyone darker than lily-white in order to recapture their 'pride'.

Scary, scary times.

683 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:37:44pm

re: #508 J.S.

It was there in wiki, but I ran out of space on the comment form. That was the only thing that stopped me. :-) and that is a very good point.

684 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:37:52pm

re: #617 hous bin pharteen

Kinda wondering to you VB supporters, how you think your views are going to go over with the US and Allied servicemen who are not white actually fighting the Jihad in Iraq, Somalia, and the Stan?

A great question- one I see you haven't gotten an answer to.

685 nickpicker  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:38:26pm

re: #676 jeppo

re: #658 nickpicker

re: #650 Truumax


re: #645 nickpickerThey also had a poster depicting three white sheep kicking a black sheep out of the pen. That's... well, that's just vile.

Immigrants - the black sheep of society. Oh, and they're black.


Exactly. Back then a number of conservative blogs, including hotair.com, tried to paint the billboard as some kind of over-the-top "metaphor". It's not. These people mean it.It should also be noted that just recently in a public vote a Suisse town denied permanent residents from Yugoslavia naturalization.

Most of the applicants were Catholic or Orthodox Christians, not Muslims.

The new European crypto-fascists front is not about "preserving European culture". It's xenophobia in maquerade.

Heaven forbid that Swiss citizens should actually have a VOTE on who should be admitted into their national family. Why that sounds downright...democratic. Why can't they have that system here is what I want to know.

It's not up to people to decide, but to the legislative and judicative.

What you describe is commonly called the rule of the mob, not democracy.

686 Truumax  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:39:13pm

re: #680 NY Nana

Nah, thanks to that handy gulf stream, scandinavia is actually warmer than it should be, considering how high up north it is. Snow usually comes in november, and usually leaves around march. And summers can get very hot.

And now I'm really leaving!

//Over and out

687 konservo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:39:55pm

re: #677 someguy

The truths are self-evident.

I'm not saying that Western values are incompatible with the majority of Judeo-Christian theology, I'm saying that the values of the West are not reliant on any one specific set of theological beliefs.

688 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:41:51pm

re: #686 Truumax

Weird here, too. I blame Albore.

Enjoy the snow! I wish we had some.

G'nite.

689 Promethea  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:43:48pm

re: #309 jehu

And no wonder the Islamists use the charge of racism to stop the West in its tracks, when we all know Islam is not a race, but an ideology. We seem to suck at self defense, but are given to white guilt, deserved or not, it has become the issue that divides us and insures, IMO that Islam may just win this round.

You sure are caving in quickly. Courage, please. We don't have to join the Nazi party or the modern equivalent in order to stop the spread of Islam.

690 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:44:49pm

re: #619 Charles

Note that Fjordman posted one comment saying he was disturbed by one of the videos of Filip DeWinter I posted.

Then he refused to clarify what he meant, despite being challenged several times on it.

Fjordman is probably not a bad guy. But he seems to have convinced himself that he needs to embrace bad guys to achieve a good end.

It's an old story in human history, and it never ends well.

I like Fjordman as well, and he is eloquent, but he starts every argument from a straw man concept that Europe is already doomed unless they go both nationalist and isolationist. I had a few arguments with him on this in the past.

Pierre: I'm a life long staunch conservative. I'm loosing more respect for you every time you hit the post button. If you have a valid argument then please bring it, and quit with the sweeping assumptions which are spoiling a valid discussion.

691 Beagle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:46:14pm

#672

OMG IT'S SNOWING! First snow of the year! Woooo!


I've got lizards the size of iguanas.

692 neocon hippie  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:46:30pm

The European crypto-fascist white nationalists and the leftist PC-diversity crowd such as the creators of the infamous Univ of Del. curriculum are two sides of the same race-obsessed coin. They are both destructive and I want no part of either.

693 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:46:39pm

re: #673 Sharmuta

I can see you and your plusers are eager. We agree on Ayaan Hirsi Ali. There is no need for you to try and turn my stone to see if I am a troll and a nazi. Or is there? I have plenty of back posts so you can see who I am. Just as Charles rightly didn't jump on a wagon. Neither will I. Charles is smarter than I am and digests this info a lot faster. That carries some weight with me, but I still need to tie the ribbon. It is going to take me awhile longer. That will have to please you. I have toned myself down a bit to adjust to the changing blog and reasoned discourse. A lot of that is do to the well thought out reasoners that talk here. I believe at one time I was in the 'nuke mecca' crowd? Hmm well forget I said that. I have yet to read the babbazee reports, or the highrise video links sent me.

694 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:48:12pm

re: #682 rightymouse

I get the feeling that white Belgians have been so drenched in self-loathing indoctrination that they've decided that the only way to overcome this is to hate anyone darker than lily-white in order to recapture their 'pride'.

Scary, scary times.

It's not just about skin color either, the rats you saw in BabbaZee's video represent French-speaking inhabitants of Belgium, they hate them as well.
Vanheck went out of his way the other day to attend a local council meeting and rip a book apart when one of the speakers starting speaking in French from it. This is the same repression that was visited upon them post-WWII when French was forced upon them. It's like an abused child who grows up to be a child abuser.

695 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:49:42pm

From what I gather it looks like VB wants credibility and US support to that credibility.
Anti-jihad is the way to go about gaining support from US.
Their true colors are on the back burner....brewing.....
Then Poof in walks LGF and questions said VB
Then all heck breaks loose.....

696 allahakchew  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:51:02pm

re: #684 Sharmuta

re: #617 hous bin pharteen


Kinda wondering to you VB supporters, how you think your views are going to go over with the US and Allied servicemen who are not white actually fighting the Jihad in Iraq, Somalia, and the Stan?

A great question- one I see you haven't gotten an answer to.

They hadn't thought about that angle yet?

698 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:51:56pm

re: #666 Highrise

Lordy.... Ok i will set my highrise clock here to the impatience setting.

699 Spiny Norman  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:52:05pm

re: #619 Charles

Note that Fjordman posted one comment saying he was disturbed by one of the videos of Filip DeWinter I posted.

Then he refused to clarify what he meant, despite being challenged several times on it.

Fjordman is probably not a bad guy. But he seems to have convinced himself that he needs to embrace bad guys to achieve a good end.

It's an old story in human history, and it never ends well.

That's what bothers me the most about this dustup. I really hope he comes around and sees where this is headed.

700 Promethea  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:52:06pm

re: #370 NoSpam

re: #353 Sharmuta

re: #335 jeppo

Belgium is not America.

Thank God!
I'm glad I live in a place where it is not considered 'normal' to put mayo on fries...

You're kidding! I can accept vinegar (Australian), but mayo........blech!

701 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:52:54pm

re: #687 konservo

I'm not saying that Western values are incompatible with the majority of Judeo-Christian theology, I'm saying that the values of the West are not reliant on any one specific set of theological beliefs.

No, they're not, precisely because they are rooted in the Jewish and Christan (from Judaism) beliefs about the dignity and freedom of the human person. We didn't wake up on September 12 and suddenly figure this all out. That's why the only true democracy in the Middle East, and the only functioning democracies anywhere else in the world are precisely those countries that are heirs to that theology, culture, civilization, tradition, or whatever anyone wants to call it.

Otherwise, why hasn't Islam developed democratic institutions of it's own? If such rights are inherent in every human being, then why have non Judeo-Christian civilizations, or those not heavily influenced by same (i.e., India) not spontaneously developed democratic institutions of their own?

702 rightymouse  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:54:02pm

re: #694 Thanos

re: #682 rightymouse


I get the feeling that white Belgians have been so drenched in self-loathing indoctrination that they've decided that the only way to overcome this is to hate anyone darker than lily-white in order to recapture their 'pride'.

Scary, scary times.


It's not just about skin color either, the rats you saw in BabbaZee's video represent French-speaking inhabitants of Belgium, they hate them as well.
Vanheck went out of his way the other day to attend a local council meeting and rip a book apart when one of the speakers starting speaking in French from it. This is the same repression that was visited upon them post-WWII when French was forced upon them. It's like an abused child who grows up to be a child abuser.

This is yet another example of why multi-culturalism doesn't work. It breeds anger, hatred and resentment.

703 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:54:52pm

Oh and Highrise. Excuse me for getting off a busy day of work and wanting to comment on some threads before they hit 900 count. And not having your priorites. lol

704 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:55:39pm

....another question.

If VB's agenda is separation from the rest of Belgium, what does this entail?
Voting themselves out?
Civil war?
And since Belgium is a NATO member, where does that leave the US?

705 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:57:30pm

re: #684 Sharmuta

Nope.
I don't expect to get one either.

706 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 7:59:49pm

re: #693 hazzyday

Just as Charles rightly didn't jump on a wagon. Neither will I. Charles is smarter than I am and digests this info a lot faster.

In essence, you refuse to do your homework that Charles has laid out here but would rather wag your finger in threads.

707 CowboyEngineer  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:00:05pm

When the Euro-Islamic War gets rolling in about ten years, it's gonna be ugly. We are not going to have a clean fight. The euros are pretty nasty when aroused, based on past behavior. There WILL be ethnic cleansing on a vast scale. Would not be surprised at all when neo-nazi like governments rise in europe and go on the warpath. I think all we'll be able to do is watch in horror. But the Islamic tide will be repulsed.

708 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:00:42pm

re: #703 hazzyday

Oh and Highrise. Excuse me for getting off a busy day of work and wanting to comment on some threads before they hit 900 count. And not having your priorites. lol

yeah I see your priorities are to come here and wag the finger...not actually go read the content you keep being on the fence about.

You are being foolish and stop deflecting it onto me and others.

709 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:00:44pm

re: #701 someguy

re: #687 konservo

I'm not saying that Western values are incompatible with the majority of Judeo-Christian theology, I'm saying that the values of the West are not reliant on any one specific set of theological beliefs.

No, they're not, precisely because they are rooted in the Jewish and Christan (from Judaism) beliefs about the dignity and freedom of the human person. We didn't wake up on September 12 and suddenly figure this all out. That's why the only true democracy in the Middle East, and the only functioning democracies anywhere else in the world are precisely those countries that are heirs to that theology, culture, civilization, tradition, or whatever anyone wants to call it.

Otherwise, why hasn't Islam developed democratic institutions of it's own? If such rights are inherent in every human being, then why have non Judeo-Christian civilizations, or those not heavily influenced by same (i.e., India) not spontaneously developed democratic institutions of their own?


Greece was not Judeo Christian until it's latter history, and neither was Rome. Both had functional democracy at various points in history. If you go back in history you will also discover that they were olive and tan skinned.

710 konservo  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:00:55pm
re: #701 someguy

[W]hy hasn't Islam developed democratic institutions of it's own?


Because Islam and Sharia are not merely religious in nature, they are also political. Hence, they are not compatible with democracy as a form of government.

If such rights are inherent in every human being, then why have non Judeo-Christian civilizations, or those not heavily influenced by same (i.e., India) not spontaneously developed democratic institutions of their own?

They have. In fact, much of the democratic policies we adhere to today are modeled on ancient Greek ideals.

711 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:01:52pm

re: #705 hous bin pharteen

Yeah- I think we're on the same page here. ;)

712 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:02:40pm

re: #702 rightymouse

re: #694 Thanos


re: #682 rightymouse

I get the feeling that white Belgians have been so drenched in self-loathing indoctrination that they've decided that the only way to overcome this is to hate anyone darker than lily-white in order to recapture their 'pride'.
Scary, scary times.

It's not just about skin color either, the rats you saw in BabbaZee's video represent French-speaking inhabitants of Belgium, they hate them as well.
Vanheck went out of his way the other day to attend a local council meeting and rip a book apart when one of the speakers starting speaking in French from it. This is the same repression that was visited upon them post-WWII when French was forced upon them. It's like an abused child who grows up to be a child abuser.

This is yet another example of why multi-culturalism doesn't work. It breeds anger, hatred and resentment.

That hate existed before the word "multi-culturalism" was coined friend. It goes back almost two centuries, it's based on tribal nationalism, not Judeo/Christianity, not Culture.

713 swamprat  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:04:25pm

How clear it all is! ....In order to defeat that particular block of Saudi- funded, leftist-supported, democrat-ignored islamstyled fascism; all we have to do is accept an alliance with the White-Power / Racist nutjobs(also assholes and idiots) This is so easy! Why didn't we think of this before?
.......(can you hear something in the background)

accept the darkside;........LUKE, I AM YOUR FATHER

714 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:05:00pm

re: #666 Highrise

I have said on the surface VB is appealing, but upon further inspection it is not so much. Is that not a summary of this whole effort. I have also pointed out that holocaust deniers are empty souls who devour misery and seem very much mentally ill to me. I have rejected Kilgore Trouts description of dymphna's report as racist and made my points why I think that. I will cut GoV some slack even though they have a couple of posters that give me the willie nillies. If I am vague on some aspect of this situation and you get worked up about it. You can lead a horse to water , but you can't make him drink. Saying that I will take your advice. It was valued and i did really appreciate the links. The resulting angst not so much. That so much reminds me of my relatives.

715 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:05:15pm

re: #704 hous bin pharteen

....another question.

If VB's agenda is separation from the rest of Belgium, what does this entail?
Voting themselves out?
Civil war?
And since Belgium is a NATO member, where does that leave the US?


They are hoping for a "Velvet Divorce" -- as happened with the Czechs. This takes some type of EU mechanics that I am not familiar with.

716 rightymouse  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:06:14pm

#712 Thanos

That hate existed before the word "multi-culturalism" was coined friend. It goes back almost two centuries, it's based on tribal nationalism, not Judeo/Christianity, not Culture.

Ha. And they consider themselves more enlightened than us knuckle-dragging Americans.

717 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:08:36pm
718 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:09:01pm

re: #708 Highrise
i have just participated early today, where I usually don't. I am sorry you are offended. If I wag the finger at anyone, I'll use some asterisk's and they'll know it.

719 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:09:37pm

re: #714 hazzyday

I'm not worked up. You seem to go out of your way to mischaracterize my posts. Hell, yesterday you thought I was jewish when that wasn't even close to what was in my posts. You later retracted that..when you have to do a lot of retractions, maybe you should hold off on posting.

I really do think you have a reading issue and I have zero problem pointing out to people when they refuse to do the reading come in here and wag fingers.

Stop deflecting your problem onto others.

720 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:11:55pm

re: #714 hazzyday

There is nothing wrong with making up your own mind in your own time.
I have read many of the links here, read over at Fjordman, BJ, Atlas, Allah, and more than a few other places I have not even heard of before this issue came up.
Frustrated that I can't read all the articles I found because I don't speak the language.
The last thing I would want to do is hurt a legitimate conservative anti-jihad political party anywhere.

One good thing about this episode is that I intend to pay more attention to Euro politics (besides the EU) in the future.
I suspect that might be the case for others here.

721 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:12:15pm
722 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:12:47pm

re: #713 swamprat

.......LUKE, I AM YOUR FATHER

You know- I think that really sums it up.

723 someguy  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:13:18pm

#709 Thanos and #710 konservo:

Touche'! The institutions of democracy and republic did in fact come from those pagan civilizations. Though I wonder if any of us would want to live in ancient Greece or Rome, where the majority of the inhabitants were not citizens and not entitled to basic rights.

724 Promethea  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:14:36pm

re: #397 rappmandu

Look at Nepal.

Most people opposed absolute monarchy. The Maoists came around promising to overthrow the king. Many foolishly aligned themselves with them in political marriages of convenience, thinking they could deal with the Maoists after eliminating the king.

Now, they deeply regret their Devil's Bargain, and this month's constituent assembly elections have been canceled due to Maoist ultimatums and threats to resume violence if their demands aren't met.

Look at Iran. Those marxist students who didn't like the Shah and thought an Islamic state would be so cool now regret their Devil's Bargain, assuming that they're still alive.

725 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:15:36pm

Most of the people supporting VB in Flemish Belgium are fine conservative Christians who we would get along with fine. It's the leadership that troubles me, and their roots. I do not like the "package deal" you get with that combination.

The leadership is politically inept -- they could have much more of the vote but they are too prone to political confrontation, political theater, hysteria, and ties to radicals. They could be much more effective if they didn't base part of their political philosophy on the same that our enemies do. Tribe first, all others second. You know where that can lead.
If instead they based their platform on independence through velvet revolution, immigration reform, strong crime laws, outreach programs to the immigrants who are there, and cut the sympathy for their hardliners, and the links to their webpages they could be much more effective.
Winning on political ground takes persistence and patience coupled with solid concise values based on universal principles -- not theater and bluster based on vague notions of identity and culture.

726 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:16:19pm

re: #706 HighriseI am not understanding this other than I have touched a nerve. No one has laid any homework out for me. That kind of gives me the creeps. My waging finger point I think is made correctly regarding logic. I think my motivation today is I had some stuff I wanted to input into the discourse based on what I am noticing. I could well be wrong about that. I was not at all impressed by the Fjordman hunt unless there was some actual logic in the argument. A lot of times there wasn't. I did think he hung around too long.

Well I'll leave you be, I don't think we will see eye to eye on this. Good hunting.

727 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:18:34pm

Charles has made it excruciatingly clear, over and over, that there are two good reasons not to join hands with white supremacist groups. (1) It's wrong; (2) It's politically suicidal.

Taking up the second issue: From a purely pragmatic point of view, why should the American Anti-Jihad movement commit suicide by cheering on fascistic European groups in their fight against the Islamist tide, especially since those groups may not be able to win anyway? It sounds cruel, but someone's got to ask it. If America is truly going to be the last bastion in WW3, as many think, is the support of A-J leaders here really so important to the Euros that they don't care if we destroy the entire movement here in America in the process of giving them a little support--which is all we could do anyway?

I'd like an answer (looking at you, jeppo/jehu/PL et al.) because that is exactly what you VB/SD apologists are asking us to do.

728 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:18:39pm

re: #717 jeppo

...and you would be dead wrong.


In fact when the corrupt Belgian government was persecuting the old Vlaams Blok

Persecuting?
Well that clears things up.

Good luck with that new Flanders nation thing.

729 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:19:00pm

I like the term crypto-fascists

730 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:20:15pm

re: #728 hous bin pharteen

That was the answer I figured you'd get if you got one.

731 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:20:22pm

re: #724 Promethea

re: #397 rappmandu


Look at Nepal.

Most people opposed absolute monarchy. The Maoists came around promising to overthrow the king. Many foolishly aligned themselves with them in political marriages of convenience, thinking they could deal with the Maoists after eliminating the king.

Now, they deeply regret their Devil's Bargain, and this month's constituent assembly elections have been canceled due to Maoist ultimatums and threats to resume violence if their demands aren't met.


Look at Iran. Those marxist students who didn't like the Shah and thought an Islamic state would be so cool now regret their Devil's Bargain, assuming that they're still alive.

Both are excellent examples of winning the wrong way. Prachandra and company are driving Nepal down the path to hell again. (Which reminds me that I haven't checked in on news there in two weeks :(

732 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:21:34pm

In fact when the corrupt Belgian government was persecuting the old Vlaams Blok

Hitler and the fledgling Nazi party got roughed up too. Hitler did jail time. Just because you're unjustly beaten up doesn't mean you're not an asshole.

733 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:21:43pm

re: #727 Dead Sea Squirrel

Bravo!

734 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:22:21pm

re: #727 Dead Sea Squirrel

That pretty much sums it up

735 hazzyday  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:23:27pm

re: #719 Highrise

Lol i never thought you were Jewish. I was trying to make a point in general. I had a typo there on the you. I reread and can see where you would think that. These big threads way overload my computer. I can't pimf them.

736 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:23:33pm

re: #724 Promethea

I also brought up Iran earlier as an example- and I find it quite ironic.

737 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:24:26pm

re: #732 Dead Sea Squirrel


I think the theory is, it is better to be the persecutor then the persecutee.

738 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:25:34pm

The crazies are really at it tonight.

"Sodra Djavul," who was blocked yesterday, just emailed this:

You shall never block the historical injustice delivered upon the Southern white peoples.

We shall have our independence.

- Cheers

739 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:27:23pm
740 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:27:55pm

re: #738 Charles

I'm sure he didn't mean white....as in how we use the term white. He's referring to his culture.

///////////////////sarc

741 Promethea  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:28:11pm

re: #437 LSD

re: #401 jehu

I can't stand neo-nazi skinheads to me they are vermin. If this party is wedded to them with no chance of reform, then I will echo the sentiments of many here...the hell with them, and probably the hell with Belgium. But I am not ready to make that pronouncement at this time. Neither am I ready to arrogantly dismiss the Belgians and demand they get their shit together and found a political party that pleases all my American sensitivities, I find that arrogant and condescending.
I understand your feelings on this.

But, as for the Belgians, there is this "air of desperation" that is very dangerous, confusing, and possibly self-defeating. America is not at the point as Eurabia, where Europeans are up against the wall and diversity has destroyed the culture to a point of the balkanization of cities.

We in America can still point out that WRONG is wrong.

Vlaams' stance on using Race as a poltical selling point is lame, dangerous, and .... unamerican. (Which is why I don't like it-and I am free to say so)

If America got to the point of Belgium, where a political party of nazi SS origins rose to power on a platform that included racial division - we really lose.

The U.S. Populists of the 1890s turned to racism to advance their economic cause, created an outrageous system of segregation, and set back race relations for the next 60 years.

The Populists didn't gain much, but they did a lot of damage.

742 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:28:11pm

re: #738 Charles


Is it me?
Or does this apear to be less and less about fighting islamo fascists and more and more about establishing an Aryan style nation in Flanders?

743 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:30:30pm

re: #738 Charles

The crazies are really at it tonight.

"Sodra Djavul," who was blocked yesterday, just emailed this:


You shall never block the historical injustice delivered upon the Southern white peoples.

We shall have our independence.

- Cheers

So it's really "Sodra Cracker?"

744 NY Nana  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:30:36pm

re: #738 Charles

You shall never block the historical injustice delivered upon the Southern white peoples.

We shall have our independence.

- Cheers

/Darn. You get all the good ones!

745 swamprat  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:30:48pm

re: #738 Charles

The crazies are really at it tonight.

"Sodra Djavul," who was blocked yesterday, just emailed this:


You shall never block the historical injustice delivered upon the Southern white peoples.

We shall have our independence.

- Cheers



I guess he felt that if he was no longer allowed to persecute black people, he should at least be allowed to support bigots in europe.............weenie(insert any other ad hominum sp? here)

746 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:31:53pm

re: #743 Thanos

But that does not sound like they speak English very well.

Southern as in US, or southern Belgium?

747 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:33:23pm

re: #727 Dead Sea Squirrel

They don't care. Countries don't have friends- they have interests. The euro-counter-jihad is interested in europe. The conference that sparked this was on the islamisation of europe. They'll only care what those "stupid Americans" think once it comes time for us to bail them out again. And I mean that. europe has wide spread anti-Americanism, but nowhere in America is there rampant anti-europeanism. To the contrary- europe still gets held up as culturally superior. Feh! If this is their idea of cultural superiority, I think I'll stick with the American "bumpkins".

748 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:33:46pm

re: #746 hous bin pharteen

re: #743 Thanos

But that does not sound like they speak English very well.

Southern as in US, or southern Belgium?

Both "Sodra" and "Djavul" are Svensk or Norsk I think.

749 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:35:43pm

re: #748 Thanos

Thanks for the translation.

750 ctrlL  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:36:33pm

re: #739 jeppo

"As for LGF's leftist enemies like LGFwatch, Reuters, Kos, etc., Charles' anti-VB stance will win him no kudos from them."

ahem ... * cough * ... I really don't think that Charles worries much about that, fyi.

751 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:36:35pm

Other blocked posters are now emailing, using proxy IP addresses. Daring me to stop them.

I love this business.

752 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:36:38pm

re: #738 Charles

Somehow "crazies" doesn't seem adequate enough for that bile.

753 Racer X  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:37:12pm

re: #740 Highrise

re: #738 Charles

I'm sure he didn't mean white....as in how we use the term white. He's referring to his culture.

///////////////////sarc

LOL!

/will this debate get any better?

754 nickpicker  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:37:16pm

re: #742 hous bin pharteen

re: #738 Charles


Is it me?
Or does this apear to be less and less about fighting islamo fascists and more and more about establishing an Aryan style nation in Flanders?

No, it's not only you. In Europe, a conservative talking about "preserving our European culture" is the same as a Klansman talking about "respecting the traditions of the South". Especially the tradition among some Southerners to hang dark colored people from trees.

Some people here would be well-advised to read Hitler's Mein Kampf. He didn't write, "And then I plan to build concentration camps and gas all Jews." Actually, the action plan he proposed read pretty much like what you hear from VB and other crypto-fascists - defend the European culture (under German leadership) from an assault by criminals (i.e. socialists, gays) and foreigners (i.e. non-Aryans) who are lead by a conspiracy to take over Europe (i.e. Jews).

755 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:38:17pm

There are several points with which we would agree with them on... their stance against the EU, their stance against Islamic Jihad, their stance on well.. soft capitalism, their stance on multi-culturalism .. etc.

It's that "cultural homogenity" thing we can't agree with.

756 Dead Sea Squirrel  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:38:41pm

re: #739 jeppo

re: #727 Dead Sea Squirrel

Charles has made it excruciatingly clear, over and over, that there are two good reasons not to join hands with white supremacist groups. (1) It's wrong; (2) It's politically suicidal.

Taking up the second issue: From a purely pragmatic point of view, why should the American Anti-Jihad movement commit suicide by cheering on fascistic European groups in their fight against the Islamist tide, especially since those groups may not be able to win anyway? It sounds cruel, but someone's got to ask it. If America is truly going to be the last bastion in WW3, as many think, is the support of A-J leaders here really so important to the Euros that they don't care if we destroy the entire movement here in America in the process of giving them a little support--which is all we could do anyway?

I'd like an answer (looking at you, jeppo/jehu/PL et al.) because that is exactly what you VB/SD apologists are asking us to do.

I think you're greatly exaggerating the importance of any foreign blog that might offer verbal support to the VB. I would venture a guess that 99% of LGF readers couldn't vote for the VB even if they wanted to. As for LGF's leftist enemies like LGFwatch, Reuters, Kos, etc., Charles' anti-VB stance will win him no kudos from them.

LGF's "leftist enemies" includes the NYT, Washington Post, CBS, AP, etc. Most of those big boys ignore us now, but as the A-J movement gains momentum, do you really want to hand them an easy club to beat us with? In exchange for practically nothing? Like I said, even if the moral arguments weren't enough in themselves (and they are), Machiavelli himself would tell us not to do it.

757 ctrlL  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:40:23pm

re: #751 Charles

Other blocked posters are now emailing, using proxy IP addresses. Daring me to stop them.

I love this business.

Okay, enough giggling tonight, Charles ... you have reached your limit.
/sign-off thread please

758 nickpicker  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:40:31pm

By the way, one reason why Europe's fascists of the 30s had such an easy game is because of all the cheer-leading from across the pond. A good number of Americans back then actually believed that Hitler and Mussolini were sincerely trying to contain "the Jewish problem", and that there were more "foreign" Jews than "natives", and that Jews were trying to install socialism all over Europe, which must be stopped by Hitler.

Go look it up in the history books.

759 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:41:00pm

re: #739 jeppo

As for LGF's leftist enemies like LGFwatch, Reuters, Kos, etc., Charles' anti-VB stance will win him no kudos from them.

Wow, that's an incredibly lame argument. Even more than the other ones you've made. Do you really believe I care what those people think?

Never mind. I don't care what you think, either.

760 swamprat  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:41:29pm

OH THE GRIEF! OH THE OPPESSION! WHO CAN BE MORE OPPESSED THAN THE WHITE SOUTHERN MALE?

hint: they ain't white
re: #738 Charles

761 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:42:53pm

re: #739 jeppo

See #482.

762 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:46:12pm

Well I am off to surf some more, the more they attack, the more I suspect. The more I suspect, the more I dig.

763 swamprat  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:47:33pm

re: #762 Thanos
That was a very good pun

764 nickpicker  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:47:43pm

re: #721 jeppo

re: #685 nickpicker

re: #676 jeppo


re: #658 nickpicker


re: #650 Truumax

re: #645 nickpickerThey also had a poster depicting three white sheep kicking a black sheep out of the pen. That's... well, that's just vile.Immigrants - the black sheep of society. Oh, and they're black.


Exactly. Back then a number of conservative blogs, including hotair.com, tried to paint the billboard as some kind of over-the-top "metaphor". It's not. These people mean it.It should also be noted that just recently in a public vote a Suisse town denied permanent residents from Yugoslavia naturalization.Most of the applicants were Catholic or Orthodox Christians, not Muslims.

The new European crypto-fascists front is not about "preserving European culture". It's xenophobia in maquerade.


Heaven forbid that Swiss citizens should actually have a VOTE on who should be admitted into their national family. Why that sounds downright...democratic. Why can't they have that system here is what I want to know.


It's not up to people to decide, but to the legislative and judicative.What you describe is commonly called the rule of the mob, not democracy.

"It's not up to people to decide..."

It think you've just summed up your attitude towards participatory democracy. I don't share it.

Democracy means that citizens get to vote for their representatives, not that they get to make their own laws.

765 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:48:55pm

Charles, I just sent you a copy of that PDF.

766 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:52:51pm
767 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:55:45pm

Jews in Switzerland on Fence Over SVP Victory

Also, anyone know what book Dewinter is holding up here?
CAUTION: White power site.

768 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:56:14pm

re: #765 Thanos

Charles, I just sent you a copy of that PDF.

I must have missed something -- which PDF?

769 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:57:06pm

re: #768 Charles

re: #765 Thanos


Charles, I just sent you a copy of that PDF.

I must have missed something -- which PDF?


The youth magazine with the rat with the Odin's cross armband.

770 Beagle  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:58:24pm

#738 Charles

You shall never block the historical injustice delivered upon the Southern white peoples.

We shall have our independence.

Oh brother. More likely to play golf and watch football. But whatever floats your boat. When you storm the military base I'm right behind you.

771 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 8:59:39pm

re: #769 Thanos

re: #768 Charles

re: #765 Thanos

Charles, I just sent you a copy of that PDF.

I must have missed something -- which PDF?

The youth magazine with the rat with the Odin's cross armband.

Oh yes -- I have it, thanks. (And a bunch of other evidence I haven't yet posted.)

772 MJ  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:00:05pm

By the way, Bruce Bawer has great piece up at PJ Media:

Norway's Very Own Ayaan Hirsi Ali


As Europe’s Islamization proceeds apace, the gap widens between ordinary folks’ growing recognition of the outrages that are going on all around them and the movers and shakers’ cynical insistence on pretending that everything’s just hunky-dory.

Case in point: the responses to Covered. Uncovered., a new book on hijab. Its author, Hege Storhaug of Norway’s Human Rights Service, is this country’s answer to Ayaan Hirsi Ali – a gutsy advocate of freedom who doesn’t mince words about the illiberal conditions (especially for women and girls) in Europe’s Muslim communities.

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

773 blackpajamas  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:00:21pm

re: #482 Charles

If I lose 90% of my readers because of the stand I'm taking against the counter-jihad movement associating with crypto-fascist parties, it won't matter one bit to me, and it won't change what I believe to be right.

...The story of a man who was too proud to run...

I know this style of Kung Fu!

It's called Will-Kane.

774 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:00:35pm

re: #768 Charles

It's the Vlaams youth magazine with the cartoon rat wearing a white power armband. It's quite fantastic.

775 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:02:08pm
776 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:03:14pm

re: #772 MJ

As long as we don't discover a picture of her in a Naziuniform she has my support.

777 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:04:30pm

Another one, this time from a probably phony Australian email address:

Why? You want a neo-Nazi free environment in your California/Washington. We want a Muslim-free environment in our little plebian states here in the South.

I don't hate you. But I will fight you.

You get California. Yours.

I get the South. Mine.

I will run your multi-culti horseshit out on a pole.

Done.

778 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:05:15pm
779 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:05:41pm

I was just thinking....why was this vlaams belang invited to the counter-jihad conference in the first place? Aren't the political parties that are ignorant of islam the problem? Shouldn't they have been the parties invited? Why preach to the choir? The choir ain't the problem.

/rhetorical line of questioning off....for now

780 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:06:43pm
I will run your multi-culti horseshit out on a pole.


Rotating title nomination.

781 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:07:20pm

re: #778 jeppo

I hope you can recognize that those on the other side are equally as principled as you.

Right. That's why they're posting homophobic photos to attack me.

Quite the principled lot, aren't they.

782 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:07:21pm

re: #777 Charles

Well- that convinced me.

/snicker

783 Thanos  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:07:53pm

re: #780 Killgore Trout

I will run your multi-culti horseshit out on a pole.

Rotating title nomination.

seconded

784 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:08:01pm
785 Highrise  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:09:38pm

re: #780 Killgore Trout

I will run your multi-culti horseshit out on a pole.

Rotating title nomination.

haha...I'm rolling here laughing at that line. I second your nomination!

786 MJ  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:10:08pm

re: #776 Killgore Trout

re: #772 MJ

As long as we don't discover a picture of her in a Naziuniform she has my support.

Here's her photo and more about her:
[Link: www.brucebawer.com...]

787 blackpajamas  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:10:27pm

I don't hate you. But I will fight you.

First rule of fight pickin': Know whom y'er about to fight.

788 Sharmuta  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:12:56pm

re: #778 jeppo

It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand up to our friends.

-Dumbledore

789 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:13:30pm

About that White Power rat -- are we completely sure it's not a negative image -- i.e. critical of the WN creeps? Before I post it, I need to be sure I'm on solid ground.

790 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:13:31pm
791 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:14:45pm
792 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:15:52pm

re: #791 song_and_dance_man

If your not sure then leave the White Power rat alone for now.

That's why I haven't posted it yet.

793 jeppo[deleted]  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:19:20pm
794 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:20:06pm

Robert Spencer has removed Brussels Journal from his blogroll, by the way.

795 Charles  Fri, Nov 2, 2007 9:21:22pm

re: #793 jeppo

re: #789 Charles

About that White