LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

  

Link address:
Link title:
Description: 
Remaining:

Miniter Misrepresents LGF Vlaams Belang Posts (aka Vlaams Belang Nazi Links)

Thu, Nov 8, 2007 at 8:32:58 am PST

Now Richard Miniter has decided to jump into the Vlaams Belang controversy: Actually, Hitler liked Islam.

I’m not sure how the fact that Adolf Hitler formed alliances with Islamists (a fact covered many times at LGF) is supposed to prove anything about the Vlaams Belang today. Maybe Miniter can clarify that for me? Certainly, Hitler used Muslims to do his dirty work, but does Miniter doubt that the Nazis would have turned on the Muslims when their usefulness was over?

But the following statement from Miniter is simply ridiculous, and shows that he really hasn’t paid much attention to what I’ve posted on this issue:

I suspect that Charles Johnson has not met any of the Vlaams Belang leadership or even interviewed them. He is simply following a left-wing link. He does not offer evidence, based not on his own experience, reporting or careful deliberation, but simply links to web sites of virulent critics—virtually all of whom have not interviewed party leaders or spent any time understanding the nuances of Belgian politics. The blind leading the blind.

“Simply following a left-wing link?” That’s absurd, to the point of being a complete misrepresentation. Here are the posts at LGF in chronological order; some of them do refer to left-wing sites, but there is so much more here, from so many other sources, that Miniter’s accusation looks extremely silly.

And please notice that one post contains the full audio file of a lengthy interview with Vlaams Belang leader Filip DeWinter.

That last link draws on images from the official Vlaams Belang youth magazine. Is that a “left-wing link” too?

Since Miniter’s point seems to be that the Nazi connection to Vlaams Belang is all a fantasy, let’s examine another piece of evidence that I haven’t posted before, some photographs emailed by a right wing Dutch reader who’s been following the controversy (unlike Miniter).

Here’s the official page for Vlaams Belang parliamentarian Koen Dillen.

And here’s Koen Dillen enjoying the company of Belgian Nazi collaborator Leon Degrelle, ranking Standartenführer in the Waffen SS:

Another picture of Dillen with Degrelle:

Here’s a picture of Degrelle with someone else you may recognize:

And here’s one more photo of Degrelle, in his younger days:

Leon Degrelle, founder of Belgium’s Rexist movement, remained an unrepentant Nazi and Holocaust denier until he died in 1994. After the war he bounced around several Scandinavian countries before ending up in Spain, where he escaped justice for the rest of his life. During the time of the Franco regime, Degrelle would show up at official occasions wearing a white uniform with his Waffen SS decorations, bragging about his close relationship with Adolf Hitler.

Belgium convicted him of treason in absentia, and sentenced him to death by firing squad.

About Degrelle’s meeting with Vlaams Belang official Koen Dillen, Wikipedia’s Dutch edition has this information (translated by Babelfish):

On 11 July 1992 Léon Degrelle had a meeting with Koen Dillen, current euro-parlementariër for the Vlaams Belang, to whom he gave a signed photograph of himself with Adolf Hitler. Filip Dewinter also has a photograph signed by Degrelle.

Here’s the photograph signed by Leon Degrelle for Koen Dillen:

There’s more where that came from—a lot more. Richard Miniter should be careful about throwing around accusations of blindness, because it takes a certain kind of willful blindness to ignore the disturbing connections and shady past of the Vlaams Belang.

UPDATE at 11/8/07 9:29:29 am:

Video of Degrelle being decorated by Adolf Hitler. (Hat tip: WriterMom.)

Youtube Video

And almost every comment for this video at YouTube openly supports Degrelle and the Nazis.

469 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 JamesTKirk  11/08/07 8:34:44 am reply quote

Miniter

You misspelled ... minotaur?

2 marwan's daughter  11/08/07 8:34:59 am reply quote

Oh no, another friend stabbing you in the back?

4 uncle_monkey  11/08/07 8:36:10 am reply quote

Wow, Charles stirring up the sh*t!

Madder'n a sack full o' black snakes.

This gets juicier by the day - keep it up!

5 Kailen  11/08/07 8:36:24 am reply quote

Typical, and predictable, response to any conservative story/organization. Misrepresent the facts and accuse the conservatives of bias or ignorance. I think it's on page 15 of 'the playbook'.

6 marwan's daughter  11/08/07 8:36:48 am reply quote

It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

7 milty  11/08/07 8:37:31 am reply quote

Charles, you da man!

I mentioned you here.

8 mph  11/08/07 8:37:35 am reply quote

Related thoughts in this essay:.

Rome Didn’t Fall in a Day: an analysis of Western Europe’s cultural demise

[Link: kejda.net...]

9 Charles  11/08/07 8:37:54 am reply quote

re: #5 Kailen

Typical, and predictable, response to any conservative story/organization. Misrepresent the facts and accuse the conservatives of bias or ignorance. I think it's on page 15 of 'the playbook'.

Richard Miniter is a conservative. It's very weird to see conservatives using the same tactics as leftists.

10 newsjunkie_ky  11/08/07 8:38:02 am reply quote

What is wrong with Miniter? I loved his book "losing bin laden". He needs to do a little investigating himself. Maybe he is friends with atlas?

11 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  11/08/07 8:38:16 am reply quote

OT reply to CiJ blog post from Morning Dead Thread...

re: #667 Carl in Jerusalem

12 Spenser (with an S)  11/08/07 8:38:39 am reply quote

re:

13 Beagle  11/08/07 8:38:59 am reply quote
Standartenf?in


Gesundheit

Ausnazisprungflingen?

14 Charles  11/08/07 8:39:28 am reply quote

re: #6 marwan's daughter

It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

They can't boot me off something I never jumped on.

15 lawhawk  11/08/07 8:39:40 am reply quote

re:

16 Iron Fist  11/08/07 8:40:10 am reply quote

we can't/won't accept Nazis or Nazi sympathizers/White Supremacists, etc. into our coalition against islamofascism. That is not how this can be won. And the truth is they are the fringe, although maybe not as fringe as I would have thought. They don't represent a significant amount of support. We (I hope, at least) outnumber them.

If we don't, then this thing is lost no matter what happens.

18 firebreather  11/08/07 8:40:25 am reply quote

Hitler & the "Grand Mufti" Islamic leader of Jerusalem loved each other, and were united in their quest to rid the world of Jewry.

To this day, Arab Muslims often conclude their prayers by saying, "Blessed be the name of Hitler."

And Mein Kampf remains a bestseller to this day in Arab Muslim lands, re-christened as Mein Jihad.

19 Lazarus  11/08/07 8:40:50 am reply quote

It's hard to look -- these pictures just make me ill. Keep fighting, Charles. Don't give an inch.

20 gop_patriot  11/08/07 8:41:10 am reply quote
it takes a certain kind of willful blindness to ignore the disturbing connections and shady past of the Vlaams Belang.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this statement!
And those are some pretty damning photos, too.

I'm sorry you're being misrepresented like this- but I don't think it would stop, even if these people actually read what you've written and linked to before they wrote their articles/responses. That's where the 'willful blindness' comes in- if they don't research it, and learn about it, they can pretend it doesn't exist.

21 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  11/08/07 8:41:35 am reply quote

Well, there is no doubt that Vlaams has some bad apples with neo-Nazi and White Power ties, the only question is whether this is a "allies with Stalin against Hitler thing", which is a valid point to debate.


Although the utility of additional allies in the struggle to stop the spread of Islamofascism in Europe may be more than cancelled out by the possible allies who would never want to be associated with Nazis and WP types.

22 chinesearithmetic  11/08/07 8:41:37 am reply quote

#3 I think it shows a lack of respect for the host to go off-topic so early after he's done such important work.

23 marwan's daughter  11/08/07 8:42:03 am reply quote

re: #14 Charles

re: #6 marwan's daughter

It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

They can't boot me off something I never jumped on.

No but I'd say you're the driver of the anti-jihad wagon. Heck, you gave Richard Miniter a platform with Pajamas Media, and you gave Atlas Shrugs a good platform too before she started her blog. It would be a shame to get you kicked off your own wagon, that's what I'm saying.

24 Ringo the Gringo  11/08/07 8:42:12 am reply quote
....it takes a certain kind of willful blindness...

If it's not willful blindness, then it's something worse.

25 Russkilitlover  11/08/07 8:42:17 am reply quote

"He does not offer evidence, based not on his own experience, reporting or careful deliberation..."

Criminey! I guess a herd of elephants in the room does not classify as evidence. From what I've been reading over the past few weeks, it's practically self-evident! And I didn't need to "follow a left wing link" to determine that Valaam Belang is an affiliation to run far away from.

26 Russkilitlover  11/08/07 8:43:58 am reply quote

Valaam=Vlaams

PIMF - and sometimes my worst enemy.

27 marwan's daughter  11/08/07 8:44:10 am reply quote

re:

28 Golem Akbar  11/08/07 8:44:26 am reply quote

Simple, so simple. VB and the others (Swedish Democrats etc) need to first of all denounce all racism, both within their ranks and elsewhere. Second, denounce the concept of mass deportations. And then explain how great democracy is versus any kind of fascist philosophy making the rounds these days --including Islamofascism.

Then maybe we could listen to them. Until then: nein, nyet, non, lo, and hell no.

29 Ward Cleaver  11/08/07 8:44:34 am reply quote

Has the whole world gone completely nuckin futs?

30 Kailen  11/08/07 8:45:09 am reply quote

re: #9 Charles

re: #5 Kailen

Typical, and predictable, response to any conservative story/organization. Misrepresent the facts and accuse the conservatives of bias or ignorance. I think it's on page 15 of 'the playbook'.

Richard Miniter is a conservative. It's very weird to see conservatives using the same tactics as leftists.

I've seen it before, sadly. I've seen conservatives use it against leftists. It's too easy of an "attack". Any group or person that wants to discredit someone else can simply fall back on misrepresenting the other side's argument.

31 Spiritualized  11/08/07 8:45:26 am reply quote
I’m not sure how the fact that Adolf Hitler formed alliances with Islamists (a fact covered many times at LGF) is supposed to prove anything about the Vlaams Belang today. Maybe Miniter can clarify that for me?

I believe he's arguing that because Hitler allied with Muslims, Vlaams Belang can't possibly be neo-Nazis because they themselves oppose Islam.

Spurious argument.

32 BigPapa  11/08/07 8:45:40 am reply quote

Oh.. that's gotta smart. The hypocrisy...

33 lawhawk  11/08/07 8:46:11 am reply quote

This is yet another example of what happens when someone jumps into a story in the middle without having all the facts and evidence in order. Miniter appears to have not followed the story as closely as he should have when putting together this story.

Charles afforded the Swedem Democrats the opportunity to rebut claims - posting their own documents on LGF - and those documents raised more questions than answers.

Miniter isn't alone in this - bloggers have been jumping ugly on this story since it broke - and many are doing so without having figured out the issues at stake, or understanding the significance of working with those folks when their neo-Nazism and white supremacist backgrounds lurk under a veneer of populist slogans.

34 Golem Akbar  11/08/07 8:46:24 am reply quote

re: #27 marwan's daughter

re:

35 Occasional Reader  11/08/07 8:46:34 am reply quote
Here’s a picture of Degrelle with someone else you may recognize:

Guilt by association!

/sarc

36 g3n3r1c  11/08/07 8:47:50 am reply quote

I believe our President just jumped on the Sec. Rice bandwagon,

US President George W. Bush hopes for a peaceful solution in the raw about Irans nuclear program.
"I firmly believe we can solve this problem diplomatically", Bush stated in an interview with the Cologne based German TV channel RTL, which was broadcast on Wednesday night.

[Link: www.kuna.net.kw...]

37 BigPapa  11/08/07 8:48:01 am reply quote

"we're separatists, not racists..."

38 legalbgl  11/08/07 8:48:27 am reply quote

Damn Charles, when you pile on the evidence you really pile on the evidence (unlike other web site that just pile on the ....)

Anyone else think Charles is a bit anoyed here?

39 JammieWearingFool  11/08/07 8:48:27 am reply quote

Nothing like diving into the shallow end of the pool without reading the posted signs.

It's not as if Charles hasn't provided more than enough ammunition in this battle; Miniter needs to read the material and do his homework.

40 Russkilitlover  11/08/07 8:49:59 am reply quote

re: #27 marwan's daughter

re:

41 WriterMom  11/08/07 8:50:32 am reply quote

Oh brother.

42 Golem Akbar  11/08/07 8:50:45 am reply quote

re: #36 g3n3r1c

I believe our President just jumped on the Sec. Rice bandwagon,

US President George W. Bush hopes for a peaceful solution in the raw about Irans nuclear program.
"I firmly believe we can solve this problem diplomatically", Bush stated in an interview with the Cologne based German TV channel RTL, which was broadcast on Wednesday night.

[Link:

43 JammieWearingFool  11/08/07 8:51:22 am reply quote

Dr. Rusty got his long-awaited fatwa from some American al Qaeda punk.

44 Owl  11/08/07 8:51:33 am reply quote
the nuances of Belgian politics

NUANCE!


Hillary would be proud.

45 Occasional Reader  11/08/07 8:51:39 am reply quote

Hey, c'mon, I mean who hasn't posed for a photo op with Hitler, right? It was just a youthful indiscretion!

46 g3n3r1c  11/08/07 8:52:36 am reply quote

re:

47 Spenser (with an S)  11/08/07 8:52:58 am reply quote

re:

48 kepiblanc  11/08/07 8:53:44 am reply quote

.

49 Golem Akbar  11/08/07 8:53:45 am reply quote

re: #44 Owl

the nuances of Belgian politics

NUANCE!


Hillary would be proud.

Caught a minute of Bill Bennett's radio show this AM. He said that Hillary has led a huge company-sized enterprise in the past: Keeping Bill's illicit affairs out of the media. I think he's got a point, there.

50 jcm  11/08/07 8:54:43 am reply quote

re:

51 lawhawk  11/08/07 8:54:49 am reply quote

re:

52 arieh  11/08/07 8:54:54 am reply quote

Charles, don't be dismayed. You are on the right track. You don't have to get in bed with Hitler's spiritual grandchildren just to be anti-Islamist. The problem as I see it is that between the self immolating lefty moonbats and the rapidly growing Muslim populations of Europe (See Mark Steyn's America Alone), there are precious few vocal European voices in opposition who are NOT neo Nazi extremists. Perhaps the people in that French libertarian group "Liberte Cherie" and its leaders Aurelien Veron and Sabine Herold would be a good, rational foundation to build a movement on.
Or perhaps the Danish example is the best to follow. In any case, Europeans need to stop being afraid of their bloody history and start recognizing the dangers posed to their future from the Islamists and the neo Nazis. As someone with ancestral ties to Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Austria and Poland, I am intimately aware of the fault lines and the dangers inherent in European geopolitics. But turning to a Mussolini, a Franco, a Hitler, or any other fascist answer to chaos leads only to repression, persecution, and death.

53 Kailen  11/08/07 8:55:02 am reply quote

I just want to make one final comment here before I take off for a bit:

CJ, you are an inspiration. You've taken as many slings and arrows as any big name on this side of the fence (you're in very good company). Yet throughout it all, you've held your ground and stuck to your convictions, and the truth. While others lie and misrepresent what goes on here, you just continue your good work and point out their lies when they come up. Keep up the good work.

And just remember rule 29 of The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates:

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less.

54 JohnSteele  11/08/07 8:55:06 am reply quote

Miniter is a good man and vehemently opposed to the Islamists. Perhaps Miniter is more concerned with the damage, and potential loss, to an ally in the war against Islamofacsism than he is about who they let into the tent? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, prehaps?

55 Terp Mole  11/08/07 8:55:17 am reply quote

Restive Eurabia;

BBC: Swastika attack on war memorial

Nazi-style swastikas have been daubed next to a war memorial in Aberystwyth, just days before Remembrance Sunday.

The symbols were painted on a paved area close to the memorial which remembers the fallen from two world wars and other conflicts...

56 BigPapa  11/08/07 8:55:25 am reply quote

I think Charles should issue a factwa on these buffoons.

57 Iron Fist  11/08/07 8:55:28 am reply quote

re:

58 so.cal.swede  11/08/07 8:55:38 am reply quote

Y DO U KEEP POTSING LEFT-WING LNIKS CHARLES?

59 Honorary Yooper  11/08/07 8:55:45 am reply quote

re: #29 Ward Cleaver

Has the whole world gone completely nuckin futs?

Yes, but it always was completely nuckin futs. Some times are just moreso than others.

Anyway, is that Nazi hiding out in South America? It looks like it from the pictures. I know that Peron let a whole bunch into Argentina during his reign.

60 Owl  11/08/07 8:56:00 am reply quote

re: #14 Charles

re: #6 marwan's daughter


It looks like the majority of the conservative blogosphere actually supports the side defending Vlaams Belang. I hope Charles isn't the one booted off the anti-jihad wagon.

They can't boot me off something I never jumped on.


Ok, I'm lost. I thought you were going to say " They can't boot me off of something I started"

maybre i'm just stupid but I thought we were "anti-jihad".......how do you define your position against islamic facism? ( I am NOT trying to stir up anything or start anything - I am just totally confused now, I swear. i have NOTHING but respect for you Charles, but I don't get that statement.)

61 Golem Akbar  11/08/07 8:56:14 am reply quote

re:

62 Leonidas Hoplite  11/08/07 8:56:19 am reply quote

People are desperate for anyone, anything to stem the tide against western civilization in Europe, at least it appears that way. Unfortunately, at the moment it seems the only people, organizations, willing to stand against that tide are unsavory ones, and they should be subject to close scrutiny, as it wouldn't take much for Europe to resort to its old habits.

We need true allies, not allies of convenience.

63 legalbgl  11/08/07 8:56:30 am reply quote

I actually like Richard Minter's book, Loosing Bin Laden. Shows how the Clinton bumbling led to the empowerment of Bin Laden, how America was attacked by Bin Laden every year during the Clinton presidency, how Clinton ignored and did not understand Bin Laden (including ignoring offers to kill him by certain middle east countries) and how ultimately this all led to 9/11.

64 JammieWearingFool  11/08/07 8:56:47 am reply quote

Neo-Nazis may be marching in Prague on the 69th anniversary of Kristallnacht.

But since they might oppose Islamists, some may turn a blind eye.

65 American Jewess In Jerusalem  11/08/07 8:57:00 am reply quote

Can someone click on the "About Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats" and tell me what is the meaning of the bolded text "people of such weak conviction (who feel the need to wear nazi uniforms)." I don't get what is being said there. Is the author chastising people who wear Nazi uniforms because he believes Nazism is bad, or only because it makes the party "look" bad? Or is he saying that if your Nazi convictions are so weak you need to bolster your identity by wearing the uniform, stay home. I'm confused, (which is nothing new).

66 DaMishMan  11/08/07 8:57:07 am reply quote

Useful tools being used as tools by tools...the moonbat parade continues...

67 Owl  11/08/07 8:57:27 am reply quote

re: #49 Golem Akbar

re: #44 Owl


the nuances of Belgian politics

NUANCE!
Hillary would be proud.

Caught a minute of Bill Bennett's radio show this AM. He said that Hillary has led a huge company-sized enterprise in the past: Keeping Bill's illicit affairs out of the media. I think he's got a point, there.

and it doesn't surprise me at all considering the whole " records locked up" thing. I hope Willey's book does them both in.

68 so.cal.swede  11/08/07 8:57:34 am reply quote

re: #18 firebreather


To this day, Arab Muslims often conclude their prayers by saying, "Blessed be the name of Hitler."
.

I'm sorry what now?

69 tfc3rid  11/08/07 8:57:35 am reply quote

This whole argument needs to be discussed and the facts presented. Charles is doing a terrific job of presenting facts... Now, sites can be left wing but Charles is also presenting from each side... From there, you can make your own arguments...

As for me, I don't want to be in bed, EVER, with Neo Nazi's... They are truly intolerant people... We may be called intolerant but we for the most part are not into wiping races or civilizations out...

Another thing that is clear is that this type of Conservative blog flare up may add to the blogosphere being discredited as a legitimate news source, thus playing right into the hands of mainstream media.

Charles needs to commended for his hard work... Same with Babba.

70 Occasional Reader  11/08/07 8:57:51 am reply quote

re: #64 JammieWearingFool

71 Dianna  11/08/07 8:57:58 am reply quote

re:

72 JammieWearingFool  11/08/07 8:58:04 am reply quote

re: #51 lawhawk

re:

73 coquimbojoe  11/08/07 8:58:07 am reply quote

I like Miniter. I hope he mans up and offers the necessary apology.

74 Charles  11/08/07 8:58:20 am reply quote

re:

75 zmdavid  11/08/07 8:58:43 am reply quote
frank says:
I'm not black, but there's a whole lot of times I wish I could say I'm not white.


Frank's on topic again. I don't agree with him though, I don't believe in tarring people with the sins of all the other members of their race (or crediting them with their virtues). Each individual should be taken separately.

76 Jimmah  11/08/07 8:59:19 am reply quote
I suspect that Charles Johnson has not met any of the Vlaams Belang leadership or even interviewed them.

I guess none of us have earned the right to form an opinion on Adolf Hitler either, since we haven't actually met him, unlike Leon Degrelle.

77 JohnSteele  11/08/07 8:59:22 am reply quote

re: #62 Leonidas Hoplite

People are desperate for anyone, anything to stem the tide against western civilization in Europe, at least it appears that way. Unfortunately, at the moment it seems the only people, organizations, willing to stand against that tide are unsavory ones, and they should be subject to close scrutiny, as it wouldn't take much for Europe to resort to its old habits.

We need true allies, not allies of convenience.

I think you've hit it on the head. I was trying to go there but you said it better

78 nolocon  11/08/07 8:59:22 am reply quote

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery, a la Rumsfeld's photo with Saddam.

I prefer substance context to visual gotcha's, no matter how well they seem to exclaim a point.

79 so.cal.swede  11/08/07 9:00:04 am reply quote

re: #75 zmdavid

frank says:
I'm not black, but there's a whole lot of times I wish I could say I'm not white.


Frank's on topic again. I don't agree with him though, I don't believe in tarring people with the sins of all the other members of their race (or crediting them with their virtues). Each individual should be taken separately.

... and thus lives on, the eternal curse of humanity - racism.

80 Golem Akbar  11/08/07 9:00:06 am reply quote

re:

81 lawhawk  11/08/07 9:00:31 am reply quote

re: Iran, Sec. State Rice, and President Bush.

Diplomats jobs are to talk your ear off. President Bush has to keep all options open, even the distasteful ones. He's also got a significant chunk of US military assets at hand to turn Iran into a smoking crater if they go off the rails altogether.

This is all part of crisis management - which is what Presidents do from the moment they're elected (and really what they do when campaigning as well). Now, Iran has been a crisis situation for quite some time - a chronic problem that threatens to become acute and the trick is to hold things in check.

Diplomacy will likely fail, but the US has to pursue this option at this time because the US isn't operating in a vacuum. There are other foreign powers aligned against the US and our interests in the region, including Russia (who would lose another source of revenue if Iran goes by the boards), China (ditto), and the Islamists in general.

Bush has to weigh all those issues, and simultaneously doesn't want to tip his hand as to what he wants to do - especially if he does believe that a strike on the nuclear facilities is necessary. Why tip off the enemy to your true intentions.

82 so.cal.swede  11/08/07 9:00:53 am reply quote

re: #76 Jimmah

I suspect that Charles Johnson has not met any of the Vlaams Belang leadership or even interviewed them.

I guess none of us have earned the right to form an opinion on Adolf Hitler either, since we haven't actually met him, unlike Leon Degrelle.

I think you just won the thread.

83 Orbit Rain  11/08/07 9:00:58 am reply quote

re:

84 Occasional Reader  11/08/07 9:01:12 am reply quote

re:

85 so.cal.swede  11/08/07 9:02:02 am reply quote

re: #84 Occasional Reader

re: #78 nolocon

I am wary of using photos to "connect the dots". Too often, it has become a tool for demagoguery

Indeed, there may be a perfectly innocuous explanation for meeting Hitler while dressed in a Waffen SS uniform.

halloween?

86 jcm  11/08/07 9:02:18 am reply quote

re: #74 Charles

re: #60 Owl

I'm saying I'm not on their bandwagon.

Charles is leading the parade, the bandwagon made a wrong turn on this one.

87 American Jewess In Jerusalem  11/08/07 9:02:42 am reply quote

re:

88 WriterMom  11/08/07 9:02:43 am reply quote

re:

89 Owl  11/08/07 9:03:15 am reply quote

re: #74 Charles

re:

90 WriterMom  11/08/07 9:03:18 am reply quote

re:

91 lawhawk  11/08/07 9:03:18 am reply quote

re: #80 Golem Akbar

re:

92 Golem Akbar  11/08/07 9:03:48 am reply quote

re: #84 Occasional Reader

re:

93 JammieWearingFool  11/08/07 9:04:07 am reply quote

lawhawk,

Are you penning your acceptance speech yet?

94 WriterMom  11/08/07 9:04:27 am reply quote

re:

95 itellu3times  11/08/07 9:04:34 am reply quote

So, Belien, and Miniter, try the old "Hey, look over there!" trick.

96 JammieWearingFool  11/08/07 9:05:32 am reply quote

re: #81 lawhawk

re: Iran, Sec. State Rice, and President Bush.

Diplomats jobs are to talk your ear off. President Bush has to keep all options open, even the distasteful ones. He's also got a significant chunk of US military assets at hand to turn Iran into a smoking crater if they go off the rails altogether.

This is all part of crisis management - which is what Presidents do from the moment they're elected (and really what they do when campaigning as well). Now, Iran has been a crisis situation for quite some time - a chronic problem that threatens to become acute and the trick is to hold things in check.

Diplomacy will likely fail, but the US has to pursue this option at this time because the US isn't operating in a vacuum. There are other foreign powers aligned against the US and our interests in the region, including Russia (who would lose another source of revenue if Iran goes by the boards), China (ditto), and the Islamists in general.

Bush has to weigh all those issues, and simultaneously doesn't want to tip his hand as to what he wants to do - especially if he does believe that a strike on the nuclear facilities is necessary. Why tip off the enemy to your true intentions.

He needs to listen to The 'Stache.

Did you catch him with Hannity & The Idiot last night?

97 Golem Akbar  11/08/07 9:05:36 am reply quote

re: #91 lawhawk

re: #80 Golem Akbar


re:
98 EmeraldLakeEyes  11/08/07 9:06:07 am reply quote

re:

99 nolocon  11/08/07 9:06:12 am reply quote

re: #62 Leonidas Hoplite

We need true allies, not allies of convenience.

USSR lost 24 million beating back the Wehrmacht. U.S. lost 1/60th that number in WWII.

Some would argue the convenience outweighed the morality.re: #84 Occasional Reader

re:

100 Owl  11/08/07 9:06:36 am reply quote

re: #77 JohnSteele

re: #62 Leonidas Hoplite


People are desperate for anyone, anything to stem the tide against western civilization in Europe, at least it appears that way. Unfortunately, at the moment it seems the only people, organizations, willing to stand against that tide are unsavory ones, and they should be subject to close scrutiny, as it wouldn't take much for Europe to resort to its old habits.

We need true allies, not allies of convenience.


I think you've hit it on the head. I was trying to go there but you said it better


Agreed. Great post....going down that path is no better than the one we're on( or the one we're fighting I should say)

101 Occasional Reader  11/08/07 9:06:39 am reply quote

re:

102 doriangrey  11/08/07 9:07:10 am reply quote

Richard Miniter what could you possibly be thinking? Charles has well documented his concerns. Do you not understand that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend? Yes sure let the neo-Nazi's and the racists fight the jihadies all they want, but their fighting jihadies doesn't automatically make them the friends of those who love and cherish freedom and democracy.

The connections between Vlaams Belang and the neo-Nazi's and racists are not imaginary, they are well documented facts. Documented by no less than Vlaams Belang themselves. Is it possible that Vlaams Belang despite its well documented past association with neo-Nazi's and racists is attempting to purge itself of those elements?

Of course it is possible, Charles himself made it very clear that this was a very real possibility and was one of the reasons that he was unwilling to rush to judgment until much fact gathering and sifting of those facts had been done.

However while it does appear that while they are making such attempts, they are not being particularly aggressive in those attempts. Even more disturbing than their apparent lack of enthusiasm to do so is the attempts by others (like you Richard Miniter ) to criticize, ridicule mock and blacklist anyone who raises genuine concerns regarding accepting as allies in the struggle against radical militant Islam neo-Nazi's and racists.

Neo-Nazi's and racists are just as much the enemy of freedom loving democracies as radic