3 dramatic exits .

He reminds me of Evander Holiefield.

Please, if you make a dramatic exit, stay gone already.

"You won't have Fjordman to kick around anymore."

Nothing about the White Power symbols in the Vlaams Belang youth magazine, nothing about the connections between unrepentant Nazi collaborator Leon Degrelle and top Vlaams Belang officials, nothing about the White Power symbol on Filip DeWinter’s bookshelf, nothing about the photo of DeWinter with Holocaust denier Jean Marie Le Pen (also on DeWinter’s bookshelf), nothing about DeWinter’s calls for a “white Europe.”

Nothing about the current VB leadership marching the lay flowers on SS gaves, etc....
The list goes on and on.

Fjordman FOADman

fixed

Drama King!

re: #3 Honorary Yooper

"You won't have Fjordman to kick around anymore."

Oh, BTW, that was a quote by Richard M. Fjordman.

I've really enjoyed Fjordman's essays. Over the years, he has made a lot of points that needed to be made. I have not followed and do not pretend to understand the discussion regarding VB but I do think it's sad that Fjordman has taken this approach, again, rather than using his formidable writing abilities to answer whatever points he feels need to be answered. So sad.

It's often not easy or popular to be right. Keep fighting the good fight Charles.

Can't we all just get along?

Offtopic already? Yes!

Islamic Polygamy in Sharon, MA

I'm sure my fellow massholes are tripping over themselves to say that this is cultural and isn't a bad thing.

*sigh*

Are we crashing their server? It's still loading for me after almost 3 minutes.

Or am I getting addicted to instantaneous response?

There rarely anything more absurd than a self-appointed superior being.

So what else is new?

'Tis a pity that energy should be wasted in these squabbles.

Hey look, I like a lot of what Fjordman writes, but it is just plain odd that he couldn't stretch his need for allies to encompass LGF. Speciesist intolerance for reptiles, apparently. May he fight the good fight in his own way, with other featherless bipeds.

re: #11 Innismir

If the Mormons can't do it, neither can the muslims.

One law, equally applied.

Frankly, I think it undermines the credibility of this website.” I meant that and I still do. It’s quite significant that Jihad Watch linked to this story whereas LGF refused to do so.

I have been thinking hard...about alot of comments I see there.

re: #10 Rednek

No.

All in all, I'm a little disappointed to see how things have begun to splinter in a way that I'm pessemistic can ever be fixed and re-enforced.
This is not a criticism against Charles, or anyone else.
I'm just feeling disappointed.

re: #11 Innismir

Well isalm certainly ain't a religion here, if there is a standing law against its free practice.

I apologize for re-posting here my two posts from the DT:

I have forced myself to read the whole thing and the problem is always the same: he talks about everything EXCEPT the MOUNTAIN of evidence published by Charles about the connections between some persons at the famous meeting and neonazism in Europe. He just doesn't discuss it and he talks in the same way ALL the neofascist sympathizers talked during the cold war: in that time they used the (REAL) commie danger, today they use the (REAL) islamofascist danger, but the point is always the same, they want to spread their violent ideas, their horror "philosophies" and the enemy is just an excuse.
But I notice that he has toned down a lot his use of "WHITE" (this and that and that else), a word that was a trademark of all his columns.
Evidently he is in bad faith and now he tries to play the good boy.

And all his talk about the VB and the other shady forces AS true forces in the fight against the jihadists is just empty talk: the neofascists in Europe are not a "force", they are just a liability, a problem, and I accuse them of being provoking agents, actually helping the enemy.
On the whole, typical neofascist doublespeak.
Garbage.

Many who have not lived many years listening to the same kind of doublespeak will be tricked into believing he is in good faith.
I strongly advise everybody to become familiar with ALL the evidence published by Charles and particularly with the names involved in the "BRING A FLOWER TO AN SS TOMB" shame.
Like with the commies, only a thorough inspection of the neofascists' actions and omissions will reveal the truth behind the wormtonguish words.

Fjordman provided an interesting view of the situation in Europe that was very helpful for us.

However, it is very odd and disconcerting that everyone who seems to be siding 'against' LGF and Charles, simply seem to be running away from a serious, factual debate...

re: #8 Mambo Bananapatch

Same here. I've been deliberately skipping over the VB posts. It quickly appeared to take too much time to get up to speed on the issue. It's a bummer that LGF lost Pamela and Fjordman over this.

I am deeply disappointed by how Charles Johnson has handled this situation. It was dishonest when he presented the Vlaams Belang in Belgium as refusing to denounce the Holocaust. (How the heck he makes this jump is beyond me! Why doesn't F address how it was dishonest to present the VB as refusing to denounce the Holocaust? -Kirls) The truth is that the European Union is directly responsible for much of the resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe, both by importing Muslims and by appeasing Jihad at home and abroad. The EU hardly cares about live Jews, certainly not about dead ones. The Holocaust is shamelessly exploited as an excuse for creating an artificial superstate and above all for imposing restrictions on free speech for everybody who wants to oppose this project. That’s what the VB objected to in this case.

none of that BS addresses the first sentence in this paragraph. I thought this guy was a writer? sounds like a propagandist to me.

kirls

ps. yes, i'm back. for a while. until the next crisis explodes in my face.

after reading the article at American Thinker linking Ron Paul to the Neo-Nazis [Link: www.americanthinker.com...]
This whole kerfuffle doesn't seem so distant anymore.

I may not remember correctly, but my recollection is that Fjordman used to post here under a different name. Am I wrong about this?

Gotta do stuff.

Bye!

Fjordman, who made a dramatic exit from LGF after being challenged on his ideas about the ethnic cleansing of Europe, then came back, then made another dramatic exit after being challenged again, has now made another dramatic exit

Like Muhammed Ali's "retirement".

re: #22 tfc3rid

Fjordman provided an interesting view of the situation in Europe that was very helpful for us.

I disagree with that too: his analysis was always oriented in a way to frame the situation as a white-non white fight, which is completely out of order and completely UNREAL.
The problem is how to fight islamofascism, not how to create the FOURTH REICH OF THE SNOWWHITES.

I haven't had time (or inclination) to step into this family squabble... but it strikes me as an awful lot of 7-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon "reasoning."

I'm reminded of the Leftist memes surrounding Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.

re: #23 ratherdashing

re: #8 Mambo Bananapatch

Same here. I've been deliberately skipping over the VB posts. It quickly appeared to take too much time to get up to speed on the issue. It's a bummer that LGF lost Pamela and Fjordman over this.

So...your blaming Charles?...they have a right to attack him...day after day.

re: #29 Poitiers-Lepanto

I can see your point on that one...

re: #26 MJ

I don't recall him ever using anything except Fjordman.

Muslim seethe alert in 5,4,3..

Olmert sets new condition on Palestinian talks

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said on Wednesday talks on Palestinian statehood must be predicated on the recognition of Israel as "the state of the Jewish people", a new Israeli condition.

A senior Palestinian negotiator swiftly rejected Olmert's demand and the issue threatened to complicate attempts to draft a joint document that would serve as the foundation for a U.S.-hosted Middle East conference later this month.

First they ask to be recognized as Jewish State, next thing you know, they'll be expecting the Palis to stop trying to kill them. Doesn't Israel know by now thats no way to get peace with the Palis?

/sarc

My take is that some of these people got hoodwinked, but they can't admit to being dupes. So that must mean Charles iswrong, so they attack him. Particularly that he is leftist, soft, feminine. I haven't heard "decadent" used yet but its' probably just a matter of time.
Those nazis, so hard and thrusting...

Please note the real agenda here is the breakup of the EU. These people are hellbent on putting back the clock so that Europe disintegrates into squabbling nation states that provided the totalitarian nightmares of the 20th century. They fondly imagine that this can be achieved while still keeping borders open for trade.
Bat Ye'or seems to be able to swallow these dubious alliances, as can many other Israel supporters while yelling " anti-semite" at other people who argue for different approaches to the Middle East. Trying to take 1000 years of European anti-semitism and dump it on the Muslim world is a project that will never attract support among the middle ground in either Europe or anywhere else.

I'm really sorry about this whole mess. Fjordman's links were always interesting and I appreciated hearing about things happening in Europe that I wouldn't have known about otherwise.

Not that I give a flip about the Kos Kidz' affirmation, but has anybody waded in there to see what their reaction has been to Charles' principled stand against the Euro counter-jihadis allying themselves with white supremacists?

re: #24 Kirly

I am deeply disappointed by how Charles Johnson has handled this situation. It was dishonest when he presented the Vlaams Belang in Belgium as refusing to denounce the Holocaust. (How the heck he makes this jump is beyond me! Why doesn't F address how it was dishonest to present the VB as refusing to denounce the Holocaust? -Kirls) The truth is that the European Union is directly responsible for much of the resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe, both by importing Muslims and by appeasing Jihad at home and abroad. The EU hardly cares about live Jews, certainly not about dead ones. The Holocaust is shamelessly exploited as an excuse for creating an artificial superstate and above all for imposing restrictions on free speech for everybody who wants to oppose this project. That’s what the VB objected to in this case.

none of that BS addresses the first sentence in this paragraph. I thought this guy was a writer? sounds like a propagandist to me.

kirls

ps. yes, i'm back. for a while. until the next crisis explodes in my face.

Haha I was skimming through his "farewell" and picked up the exact same thing - I make no claims to being a good writer, but I know that when you write a topic sentence in a paragraph, you're supposed to support it instead of changing the subject.

re: #33 Dianna

re: #26 MJ

I don't recall him ever using anything except Fjordman.

I don't either.

re: #30 Terp Mole

Charles addressed that question days ago, but since you've been avoiding the issue, you couldn't know that.

I've read every post, and followed every link, and I've read a lot of what the other side is putting up. I think Charles has been more transparent, and has linked more and better research. It's not really analagous to the left and the Rumsfeld photo except on the surface.

Read it for yourself, and then take a look through the volumes of factual evidence I’ve posted, and ask why Fjordman, Gates of Vienna, and Brussels Journal are spending so much time blowing smoke and personally attacking me, instead of addressing the facts.

My guess is because they are cowards. No reflection on you of course. It's just easier to hurl baseless personal attacks than to admit you're wrong - which is EXACTLY what they'd have to do if they'd open their pride-filled eyes and force themselves to think about the real issues.

liberalism is contagious.

re: #30 Terp Mole

I haven't had time (or inclination) to step into this family squabble... but it strikes me as an awful lot of 7-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon "reasoning."

I'm reminded of the Leftist memes surrounding Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.

Vlaams Belang leader Koen Dillen has a photograph of Adolf Hitler with Leon Degrelle, signed by Degrelle personally. Maybe you think that's a trivial "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" connection -- but I definitely do not.

re: #37 doppelganglander

I'm really sorry about this whole mess. Fjordman's links were always interesting and I appreciated hearing about things happening in Europe that I wouldn't have known about otherwise.

I agree. It's truly sad to see how some have lost their way.

#5 Shug 11/14/07 8:43:00 am reply quote report 0

Fjordman FOADman

fixed

FOLDman re: #5 Shug

Wow. If Fjordman had written "A Day in the Life" rather than McCartney and Lennon, that last chord would have been about two weeks long.

Notice that he's toned down his deportation rhetoric near the end of the article. He's learing to hide his true ambitions.

Fjordman's question to Charles.......

The indigenous population of all European nations is white. By extension, this means that if the natives want to preserve their majority, this means a white majority. So, if we say that we would like to limit all immigration, not just Muslim immigration, to ensure that the natives remain the majority in their own lands, is this to be considered racism? If so, does that mean that we have an obligation to commit cultural and demographic suicide because we are white?

He doesn't really want to deport just a few trouble making Muslims. He wants a White Europe. That means Asian, black and Jewish populations must be controlled. His population control has nothing to do with assimilation or ideology. It's based on skin color and genetics.

re: #36 threecoloursblue

Re-read your last three sentences and then explain what the heck you meant. It's unclear to the point of incoherence.

Baath party holds up the White Flag

re: #35 Peacekeeper

Did you listen to Pamela's interview with Paul? It was unbelievable.

Trying to take 1000 years of European anti-semitism and dump it on the Muslim world is a project that will never attract support among the middle ground in either Europe or anywhere else

Right. Cause there ain't a ladder tall enough to get on top of the anti-semitism pile that teh "muslim world" has already amassed.

/* gotta get my GAZE glasses out so they'll be handy. gonna need em soon.

re: #31 storagemanager

I just hate to see the infighting. No blame is being laid on anyone. I'm not in a position to do that without reading the entire saga.

I am totally staying out of this one.....havent been here all that often in the prior months and have no idea as to what the origins of this little brew-ha-ha are.......

*sits on the bench for a breather until next thread*

Read it for yourself, and then take a look through the volumes of factual evidence I’ve posted, and ask why Fjordman, Gates of Vienna, and Brussels Journal are spending so much time blowing smoke and personally attacking me, instead of addressing the facts.

Sounds very Clintonesque...

Off Topic...but interesting.

Government Report: More Military Deaths in Some Years of Peace Than War

More active members of the military died during two years of peacetime in the early 1980s than died during a two-year period of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a government report.

Underscores points made about how effective the US armed forces have become. And of course, each and every death is one too many.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

re: #23 ratherdashing
23 ratherdashing 11/14/07 8:50:45 am reply quote report 0

re: #8 Mambo Bananapatch

Same here. I've been deliberately skipping over the VB posts. It quickly appeared to take too much time to get up to speed on the issue. It's a bummer that LGF lost Pamela and Fjordman over this.

More realistically, Fjordman and Pamela lost LGF.

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

re: #24 Kirly

The Holocaust is shamelessly exploited as an excuse for creating an artificial superstate and above all for imposing restrictions on free speech for everybody who wants to oppose this project.

Yes, he's blaming the Jews for the destruction of European Identity.

re: #47 Killgore Trout

It's the lack of colour blindness that has defined the sides of the debate.

re: #49 g3n3r1c

Baath party holds up the White Flag

"Hey, don't confuse us with facts! We surrender!"

- Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi

Charles doesn't believe it appropriate to associate the the "War On Terror" with Vlaams Blok, the Swedish Democrats, or other neo-fascist European parties.

Charles has backed up his belief with considerable evidence too. Fjordman won't (or more likely can't) refute any of it.

There's really nothing more to discuss and Fjordman needs to stop making a fool of himself.

re: #35 Peacekeeper

My take is that some of these people got hoodwinked, but they can't admit to being dupes. So that must mean Charles iswrong, so they attack him.

Some of them, yes, they look like that.
Some others not, and now , finally, they are out of the closet for the fascists they have always been.

And some others have, in my not so humble opinion, played all this to pull LGF into a GIANT PROVOCATION that could have destroyed all LGF's credibility.

Wink wink : CUI BONO ?

LGF made not credible on the national and international stage would be an advantage for...?

You know the answer !

" In June 2007 the visiting US President George W. Bush was hailed as a hero by a group of Albanians who also stole his watch. “Sooner rather than later you’ve got to say ‘Enough’s enough — Kosovo is independent,’” Bush told cheering Albanians."

Actually, he's wrong about that. I know it's a minor point, but Bush did not have his watch stolen:

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

I haven't made any comments about this Charles.. because I'm not sure yet if the Wests response to Islamoterror will be violent or legalistic, and I don't know if local fighters will be klan lite or nazi when and if violence is the option. But I am sure Europe is in grave danger.

re: #55 Dad O' Blondes

Off Topic...but interesting.

Government Report: More Military Deaths in Some Years of Peace Than War

More active members of the military died during two years of peacetime in the early 1980s than died during a two-year period of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a government report.

Underscores points made about how effective the US armed forces have become. And of course, each and every death is one too many.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The early 80s? REAGAN KILLED OUR TROOPS IN PEACETIME!

/lib spin mode

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not the Celtic Cross, it's Odin's Cross. Big difference.

re: #30 Terp Mole

but it strikes me as an awful lot of 7-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon "reasoning."

Watch the video of the Vlamm Belang leadership marching to lay flowers on the graves of SS soldiers.

re: #57 opnion

Read BabbaZee's blog posts-very informative on this.

re: #50 WriterMom

re: #35 Peacekeeper

Did you listen to Pamela's interview with Paul? It was unbelievable.

Oh Lawdy no/ I gave up on her weeks ago.

re: #57 opnion

Go check "Now is deWinter of our discontent", and follow on. Babbazee's been following the symbology and its history.

Or just check out what the ADL has in its database.

Intel develops the eco-chip, with Israeli help

Goycott!

re: #58 Killgore Trout

I don't follow the logic in that sentence at all. Can you please give me your take?

re: #58 Killgore Trout

I think that's going further than the sense of the words allows.

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not a Celtic cross, its' Odin's cross. Important detail.

Europeans are always surprised when Americans are on to them.

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's called an Odin's cross.

Use of the Swastika is legally banned in most of Europe hence the contemporary use of the Odin's Cross and the various Teutonic runes by white power terrorists in it's stead.

Linky

See, I have a real problem, as an American, with the whole idea of a white simon pure country. I understand that my national experience is different that someone from Belgium et al. America has always been a multi-ethnic country (not a multi-cultural one, BIG difference) so I can't continence any call for racial purity. But Europe? Well I can only suggest that the model we have established on this side of the pond, despite the troubles we have had, as one to emulate. As the world develops, there must (in a growing society) be more and more people that don't look like your grandparents. The trick is to integrate them into society. Europe needs to learn how to do that without succumbing to dhimmitude or backlashing into nazism.

re: #57 opnion

probably the same way the gay groups took the rainbow, and the skinheads took the Confederate Battle Flag. You want it you just take it I guess.....and soon, just because you are using it - the symbol is unfit for use by the original users......which is right i guess....cause now a rainbow sticker on a car means your gay and a "rebel flag" in your truck makes you a racist.

* sigh.....

/longs for simplier times...

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not a true Celtic cross. It's an Odin's cross, or a gunsight cross (which is what I thought it was when I first saw it).

I rarely post on a subject of which I know little or nothing.

Until quite recently, I thought Vlaams Belang was the name of a person.

(Well, it also took me a while to notice that those Browser Page headlines about "Paris Hilton" did not refer to a hotel.)

So I will just say that for whatever it may be worth, I put my confidence in Charles's good judgment.

Recall that Fjordman actually defended the white nationalist ideology as a solution to the Islamization of Europe.

(If the precise references would be sought, search for his comments in the first few threads about the SD and the VB.)

re: #71 Ben Hur

Intel develops the eco-chip, with Israeli help

Goycott!

And it reports everything back to Mossad headquarters!

/starting a rumor on the arab street

re: #36 threecoloursblue

Please note the real agenda here is the breakup of the EU. These people are hellbent on putting back the clock so that Europe disintegrates into squabbling nation states that provided the totalitarian nightmares of the 20th century. They fondly imagine that this can be achieved while still keeping borders open for trade.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but on this point they are right. The EU is absolutely a totalitarian construct.

"I also dislike how LGF uses the late Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn to justify their views. As Bruce Bawer has demonstrated in his book While Europe Slept, Fortuyn was virtually executed by the left-wing media and the Eurabian political establishment for being a “racist, Fascist and Nazi.” Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who lives with constant death threats from Muslims, claims that a climate of “hate and aggression” has been created in which someone might think that “illegal means are justified to stop me and my people.” Left-wing columnists dismiss him as “someone outside of the law, as the leader of a Fascist party, that is anti-democratic and similar in some respects to the Nazi’s,” he said. "

He's using Pim Fortuyn and Bruce Bawer to support his point of view re: the VB?

you know, i haven't been able to keep up with all this but it's already over for me.

Fjordman - what is wrong with you? they're nazis, you fool!

cause now a rainbow sticker on a car means your gay and a "rebel flag" in your truck makes you a racist

I forgot the /sarc tag, cause neither of these is necessarily true.....

Think Steve Martin

"This lamp... it's all I need.....
oh, and this white power symbol, sniff...yeah that's all I need."

Thanks for posting this Charles. I was going to in the next open thread, and was wondering if I'd get grief for doing so.
I understand that the Islamists are a greater threat than the neo-Nazis at this point, and so get the GoV and Fjordman position.
But I fear that this drift of Europe to Nazism will lead to another Reich. So in that way I grok your argument.
Thanks again!

I am not worried about a splintering of the anti-Islamofascist groups around the world. It was inevitable that the neo-Nazi/White Power groups would try to ally themselves, but the real pro-democracy, anti-fascist folks would not want their friendship. I say "Way to go , Charles," in calling it right.

I predict someday soon other so-called liberal groups, who are really targets of Islamofascism, will join the pro-democracy movement. It really is a war between western civilization versus fascism. I can't imagine why femminists and gays, just to name two groups, haven't started to loudly denounce Islamofascists, yet.

Charles was right.....I guess Pam would these people fighters of the jihad.................

BUDAPEST(AFP)---A Hungarian far-right group recalling the country’s pro-Nazi regime during World War II, inducted 600 new members Sunday in a military-style ceremony amid protests from the government and Jewish groups.

Members of Magyar Garda, or Hungarian Guard, attended the event in Heroes’ Square in Budapest wearing white shirts and black uniforms emblazoned with red and white stripes, a flag associated since World War II with Hungary’s Nazi-allied Arrow Cross regime

Think about the sign...........

The black-and-white signs, some showing Hungarian Nazi leaders during the war raising their hands in a "Heil Hitler" salute, read: "History repeats itself. You can still turn back."

[Link: www.ejpress.org...]

re: #79 Owl

re: #57 opnion

probably the same way the gay groups took the rainbow, and the skinheads took the Confederate Battle Flag. You want it you just take it I guess.....and soon, just because you are using it - the symbol is unfit for use by the original users......which is right i guess....cause now a rainbow sticker on a car means your gay and a "rebel flag" in your truck makes you a racist.

* sigh.....

/longs for simplier times...

Amen to that, brother. The University of Hawaii changed their team name from the Rainbow Warriors to the Warriors, because of the gay connotation. As far as I know, there's a still a rainbow on Hawaii license plates.

Jeez... Fjordman sure put a lot of effort into this essay, I only wish he had focused on quality instead of quantity. He reminds me of 'Christine' at the "Center for Vigilante Freedom," heavy on the words but light on content.

re: #82 Yank in the EU

Recall that Fjordman actually defended the white nationalist ideology as a solution to the Islamization of Europe.

(If the precise references would be sought, search for his comments in the first few threads about the SD and the VB.)

Yes, and in re-reading his essays, he is pretty consistant about deporting all muslims, regardless of their jihadist leanings.

re: #66 Ward Cleaver

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not the Celtic Cross, it's Odin's Cross. Big difference.

If you google Odin's Cross you get an ADL link which describes the Celtic Cross also known as 'Odin's Cross" as a white supremacist symbol first used by the KKK.
So I guess I am still confused as to why the symbol was taken by these people at all.

It seems to me that the guy is pretty insignificant and really doesn't warrant a whole thread.

Maybe just a rotating title that expounds upon his douchebaggedness.

re: #57 opnion

The Celtic Cross and Odin's Cross (the White Power Symbol) are completely different. More detail here

Once you sin in pride it takes you on a journey to strange places.

re: #86 Kirly

you know, i haven't been able to keep up with all this but it's already over for me.

Fjordman - what is wrong with you? they're nazis, you fool!

And it's double bad, because the VB and SD numbers are small, and the legitimization they get from the counter-jihadi affiliation can only increase their numbers. Not good.

re: #48 Dianna

I don't like the alliances between the likes of Bat Ye'or and neo-fascists.
During Europes earliest displays of anti-semitism, Jews found refuge in what was then the Ottoman empire. See historian Benny Morris for example. History is now being turned on its head to take account of the surge of islamic anti-semitism.
And as well as all this, Fjordman statement that Europe in co-ordination with the left, "imports muslims " is simply delusional. As well as emigrating to find work, many muslims, espeially from the Mahgreb, came to escape the suffocating and dangerous atmospheres of their own countries. These people are completely ignored by the neo-fascists.

I've never seen a photograph of fjordman but I always pictured him like this.....only without the smile.

I've read most of his essays through the past few years and learned much from him, but his complete lack of any discernible sense of humor and his inability to understand that shared values are what makes a society cohesive, not shared ethnicity, always made me weary of him.

He's a smart guy and I wish him the best....I also hope he gains some wisdom because Europe is going to need wisdom more than anything else in the coming decade.

re: #95 opnion

re: #66 Ward Cleaver

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not the Celtic Cross, it's Odin's Cross. Big difference.

If you google Odin's Cross you get an ADL link which describes the Celtic Cross also known as 'Odin's Cross" as a white supremacist symbol first used by the KKK.
So I guess I am still confused as to why the symbol was taken by these people at all.

Read the link to Babba's site above titled "Nazis Rune Everything, it will give you some history and etymology for the adaptation of the runes by white power groups.

Opinion I assume you're here to confuse the issue? Got to Hell.

We should work toward building bridges over the Fjords that divide us.

Boy, wasn't that clever.

re: #58 Killgore Trout

re: #24 Kirly

The Holocaust is shamelessly exploited as an excuse for creating an artificial superstate and above all for imposing restrictions on free speech for everybody who wants to oppose this project.

Yes, he's blaming the Jews for the destruction of European Identity.

No, he's not. I'm basing that on the conversations I've had over the years with Europeans while I try to figure out the EU. Supporters of the EU who cite 'nationalism' as the evil of the 20th century ALWAYS cite the Holocaust as an example of what 'nationalism' does.

re: #43 Charles

re: #30 Terp Mole

I haven't had time (or inclination) to step into this family squabble... but it strikes me as an awful lot of 7-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon "reasoning."

I'm reminded of the Leftist memes surrounding Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.

Vlaams Belang leader Koen Dillen has a photograph of Adolf Hitler with Leon Degrelle, signed by Degrelle personally. Maybe you think that's a trivial "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" connection -- but I definitely do not.

Point of detail: Koen Dillen is a leading VB-er (quite damning enough) but is not the party leader. He is the son of founding party leader Karel Dillen (recently deceased).

Fjordman is in denial about the utter lack of popular political viability, in the 21st century, of any alliance that is shot-through with the white-supremacist tumor.

It really is too bad that he of all people is so far into his denial that he will do no more than pay lip service to rooting out and expelling this deplorable white-power malignancy from his movement, in effect adopting and willingly accepting a cancer-ridden organism as his own.

re: #95 opnion

re: #66 Ward Cleaver

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not the Celtic Cross, it's Odin's Cross. Big difference.

If you google Odin's Cross you get an ADL link which describes the Celtic Cross also known as 'Odin's Cross" as a white supremacist symbol first used by the KKK.
So I guess I am still confused as to why the symbol was taken by these people at all.

The ADL needs to correct their Web page. The Celtic Cross is a regular cross with a circle over it, while the Odin's Cross is more like the cross-hairs in a rifle scope.

"The illustrious Pamela". Well I don't need to ask which side he's taken.

re: #89 DanThePainter

Thanks for posting this Charles. I was going to in the next open thread, and was wondering if I'd get grief for doing so.
I understand that the Islamists are a greater threat than the neo-Nazis at this point, and so get the GoV and Fjordman position.
But I fear that this drift of Europe to Nazism will lead to another Reich. So in that way I grok your argument.
Thanks again!

My argument is actually more pragmatic than that, and simpler.

It's a mistake for the anti-jihadist bloggers and writers to make alliances with these kinds of groups, because it will alienate mainstream Americans who want nothing to do with anything that smells of Nazis or White Power. And it hands the real enemies--like CAIR--a huge club to beat people like Robert Spencer with, a club they have already used.

I have only watched this so far and haven't commented, mainly because i have been preoccupied with fire damage.

But there is something here that folks need to recognize - Europe provides little space for middle ground when it comes to racial issues.

Most people around the world incorrectly think that Europeans are more racially tolerant than Americans. Having worked extensively in Europe, I can state flatly that such isn't true.

What you have in Europe are two camps - the vocal multiculturalists and the silent racists. Europe has not gone through the immigration / assimilation waves that the US has. Not the same history. In the US people understand that you can be for immigration controls and not be a racist (Cesar Chavez was against illegal immigration). Europe is far from there - you either embrace an ideology that is "virtuously" anti-nationalist (which pro European integration folks are) and therefore pro immigration and anti racism; or you are pro-nationalist (which inevitably means "white europe" in the current political landscape.

Sarkozy is a new breed - of immigrant heritage who is an assimilationist (De Gaulle is truning in hiis grave) but also for stronger immigration controls. He is called a racist by the left because he does not subscribe to their narrow ideology on racial matters.

Point is if you are vocal in wanting to preserve some fashion of European identity and nationality while wanting immigration reform and wanting to confront the islamist absolutists, you are going to have a hard time establishing a political identity that doesn't rub shoulders with the white nationalists. It will take some time and public focus for that to happen. Perhaps Charle's is providing a small catalyst of sorts.

In this I am not sympathetic to the white nationalists in the least - I just have experience in Western Europe that tells me that the "middle ground" is a space that is hard to occupy because most Europeans are unaware that a middle ground can exist - they have a binary view and the middle ground is just a slippery slope leading one to the other side.

re: #103 Peacekeeper

Opinion I assume you're here to confuse the issue? Got to Hell.

I don't think he is; the ADL page (I've visited it) is vague and misleading.

re: #73 WriterMom

His view is that Holocaust guilt has prevented Europeans from protecting their race and cultural identity. In his mind the EU's goal is erase individual Eurpean countries thus destroying their local indigenous cultures and replace it with a less pure pan-European identity.

Meanwhile in Spain: A 16-year old anti-racism campaigner has been stabbed to death during violent clashes with neo-Nazis in the Spanish capital Madrid.

I think the greater problem here is that Americans generally see nationalism through the prism of ideas (life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, freedom of speech, independent judiciary... ect) while Europeans see nationalism through the prism of race.

It makes a bit of sense. Every other nation but ours has an ethnic identity. I could travel to China, apply for and receive Chinese citizenship, but I would never really be 'Chinese'.

Since Europe has rejected any sort of greater ideology (to jingoistic and American dontcha know) the only thing they have left to rally around is race.

Very sad really. To lose such allies in this fight over something so stupid. Im the father figure to my 3 nieces, and their biological father was black. Id jump in front of a bus for those girls and Id fight anyone who would declare them lesser people... or those that would associate with those types. The GWOT is a struggle against fascism, misogyny, racism and all the other retrograde ideas the jihadis stand for.

I enjoyed F mans essays but I hope he stays gone this time. In siding with bigots he has sided with those that would spit on my girls. Good by F man, I guess I never really knew ye.

re: #100 threecoloursblue

I've read Morris; you're not exactly right about the various flows of people or time or context, but that's all right in a couple sentences. Your second paragraph makes a certain amount of sense. It doesn't clarify your meaning in context all that well, but it does help.

Unfortunately, my time for hanging out is over, so I can't continue. The little numbers await me.

I just called MGM grand Las vegas Sports Book

Current odds on Fjordman returning to make another dramatic exit are 3:1 in favor

Unfortunately for Fjordman and a lot of others that are members or friends of these nationalist neo-nazi groups, the pull of the group is stronger than the pull to independently think through the facts and possibly isolate yourself from your friends.

re: #92 Ward Cleaver

When I was a kid and you saw a rainbow anywhere( on a sticker, notebook, painted on a wall, whatever - it kinda meant " happy" or" peace" or "horray - oh look a pretty rainbow!." God says it was a sign for the world. I just think it's a big slap in the face that they chose that as their symbol. Same for the skinheads.....except I think they chose the battle flag because they thought it represented a struggle for white power. While I'm not totally convinced that the War of Northern Aggression(as we like to call it ;) LOL ) was free of racist intentions, I do believe what I've read that says it was a war for States' Rights against a big Federal Government. I have no doubts or dillusions that there weren't racists fighting for the right to keep their slaves...but I also have no doubt that the skinheads think that was the ONLY reason for the war, thus their adaptation of the Battle Flag. But, that's just me and I've been known to be wrong....so I'm just sayin - it's just what I think from what I can gather. no offense to gay folks meant - much offense to skinheads meant, however.

I just can't believe this has come to this point. It's sad to see fighting go on between bloggers who seem to have most things in common yet situations like this. I have both Gates of Vienna and LGF on my blogroll at my blog and I read them both regularly, and while I agree with Charles wholeheartedly on the issue, especially with what happened with Atlas, It's just sad to see ally vs ally.

It should be allies vs the Islamist Jihad movement. That's really ultimately why we're here doing this blogging thing in the first place.

Anti-Jihad bloggers should stick together and remember the REAL reason why we blog.

PRAGUE (AFP-EJP)---Brandishing yellow stars and red flags, more
than a 1,000 people rallied in Prague’s old Jewish quarter Saturday to block an extreme-right march on the anniversary of a notorious Nazi-era pogrom against Jews.

Police sealed off the meeting point of the far-right Movement for Young Nationalist Democrats (MND) and arrested a number of skinheads, some armed with batons, truncheons and home-made molotov cocktails, various sources said.

[Link: www.ejpress.org...]

re: #99 Ward Cleaver

re: #86 Kirly

you know, i haven't been able to keep up with all this but it's already over for me.

Fjordman - what is wrong with you? they're nazis, you fool!

And it's double bad, because the VB and SD numbers are small, and the legitimization they get from the counter-jihadi affiliation can only increase their numbers. Not good.

The SD [and, [vomit], BNP] numbers are small all right. The VB, unfortunately, is a major party in Flanders and the #1 party in Antwerp.

Ben Franklin said: " The sting in any rebuke is the truth."

re: #43 Charles

re: #30 Terp Mole

I haven't had time (or inclination) to step into this family squabble... but it strikes me as an awful lot of 7-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon "reasoning."

I'm reminded of the Leftist memes surrounding Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.

Vlaams Belang leader Koen Dillen has a photograph of Adolf Hitler with Leon Degrelle, signed by Degrelle personally. Maybe you think that's a trivial "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" connection -- but I definitely do not.

You have to laugh.

"Well I don't think there's any proof"
"Jesus flipping crepes, HE HAS A PHOTO OF HITLER ON HIS DESK! WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE'S NO PROOF!"

Aiyiyi...

re: #106 Former Belgian

Point of detail: Koen Dillen is a leading VB-er (quite damning enough) but is not the party leader. He is the son of founding party leader Karel Dillen (recently deceased).

That's true -- I meant only that he was A leader, not THE leader, but I see how it could be unclear. Thanks for clarifying.

re: #115 Ringo the Gringo

Meanwhile in Spain: A 16-year old anti-racism campaigner has been stabbed to death during violent clashes with neo-Nazis in the Spanish capital Madrid.

Wow, it's starting. I hope I'm wrong, but I can see riots and civil wars breaking out all over Europe. It isn't going to be pretty.

re: #104 Gordon Marock

that....was a classic. +1 for you! made me LOL.

A, picture, symbol and books on a shelf is an impression. Hearing one talk unrestrained long enough the impression solidifies.

re: #84 wahabicorridor

Nonsense. It's so larded with opt-outs and such that it lumbers along. Everyone is against the Ec until they turn on their taps and crap flows out, whereupon they look toEuropean legislation to force their lazy governments to do something. Thats on top of no wars for 60+ years.

re: #125 Pawn of the Oppressor
"Well I don't think there's any proof"
"Jesus flipping crepes, HE HAS A PHOTO OF HITLER ON HIS DESK! WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE'S NO PROOF!"

Seconded.

re: #115 Ringo the Gringo

Meanwhile in Spain: A 16-year old anti-racism campaigner has been stabbed to death during violent clashes with neo-Nazis in the Spanish capital Madrid.

And notice how this Spanish right-wing group is not just against Muslim immigrants. They're even against immigrants from South and Central America. All these right-wing groups in Europe are racists to the core, and will twist a legitimate issue into something bad.

re: #105 wahabicorridor

Then we agree. He's a White Nationalist. He's not shy about it. See #47.

re: #110 Charles

re: #89 DanThePainter

Thanks for posting this Charles. I was going to in the next open thread, and was wondering if I'd get grief for doing so.
I understand that the Islamists are a greater threat than the neo-Nazis at this point, and so get the GoV and Fjordman position.
But I fear that this drift of Europe to Nazism will lead to another Reich. So in that way I grok your argument.
Thanks again!

My argument is actually more pragmatic than that, and simpler.

It's a mistake for the anti-jihadist bloggers and writers to make alliances with these kinds of groups, because it will alienate mainstream Americans who want nothing to do with anything that smells of Nazis or White Power. And it hands the real enemies--like CAIR--a huge club to beat people like Robert Spencer with, a club they have already used.

Exactly, Charles. There's nothing to gain, and much to lose. Thanks for taking your stand.

I, for one, will miss Fjorman.

Charles has much credibility with me. But so does Fjordman.

LGF is accused of being "racist" all the time. I can not help but believe something is being lost in the translation over this sundering.

(It feels like my parents are fighting.)

(I know, don't let the door hit me in the ass on the way out...)

re: #78 billhedrick

The trick is to integrate them into society. Europe needs to learn how to do that without succumbing to dhimmitude or backlashing into nazism.

Well said.

Meanwhile (OT), Capt. Ed is reporting that Markos Moulitsas has been tapped by Newsweek to write a column.

Markos himself comments that he expects "heads exploding in wingnutlandia today," but also expects the conservative columnist Newsweek will hire to balance his entries to explode a few heads on his side as well....

I'm not certain that I would be a complete analog to Markos in any case. I try to expand minds, not explode heads; a proper balance would have a conservative willing to match Kos' stridency on topics, and hopefully with better arguments.

I don't know what's posted over in kosland since the corporate firewall blocks me with the following message: "The requested URL belongs to the following categories: Politics/Opinion, Personal Pages, Profanity." I must say: I concur.

re: #91 storagemanager

And you don't even want to know about what's happening in former East Germany.

BERLIN (AFP)---Germany’s main Jewish representative body said last Tuesday said it was shocked by a standing ovation that a Catholic group gave to a television presenter who was sacked for praising the Nazis’ approach to families.

Eva Herman was greeted with strong applause when she gave a speech to present her new book about family values to a crowd of about 700 Catholics in Fulda in central Germany at the weekend, just a month after she was sacked by the state-run NDR television

[Link: www.ejpress.org...]

This is most unfortunate.

Fjordmann's blog has some great essays, and he has tracked down some good statistical data that seems to be ignored by most.

WHY did he "stick up" for such people?

These sort of things do the most damage to our "quest" for showing the rest of the world what the truth is.

re: #111 karmic_inquisitor

What you have in Europe are two camps - the vocal multiculturalists and the silent racists.

I can confirm. I had a conversation where I was told that unless I have Native American background, I had no moral authority to comment on 'racist America'. When told some of my ancestors were Shawnee, that a book and a movie have been made about them, I was duly pronounced - wait for it 'intelligent'. The bastard then asked what kind of work I do. He was told I teach international relations at the Kemosabe School for Indian Princesses.

re: #53 mad_scientist

I am totally staying out of this one.....havent been here all that often in the prior months and have no idea as to what the origins of this little brew-ha-ha are.......

*sits on the bench for a breather until next thread*

It's not "little" nor is it going away.

re: #109 marwan's daughter

I'm very disappointed in Mr. Spencer.

re: #118 Shug

I just called MGM grand Las vegas Sports Book

Current odds on Fjordman returning to make another dramatic exit are 3:1 in favor

Put me down for a C-note.

I've been trying to keep a light handle on this progression for a while, but it's been moving too fast for me recently, to which my excuse is that I've been ill for the past month and unable to do much. But I've failed to see any clear lines able to be drawn, and so I'm deciding to take a step back from the controversy until things become clearer.

I trust Charles' work from past experiences and have respected the tactics he has employed on this subject: presenting evidence, supporting with more evidence and not getting dragged into name-calling and finger-pointing, tactics I have seen more of on the main sites opposite from this issue. But at the same time I must note, as a resident of Scotland, that Charles' avowed interest is the United States. Things are very very bad over here in Britain, and worse in the rest of Europe. As an example, the BNP, an openly white power organisation and one reviled across the board in Britain, gained standing in the recent local elections. Not by much, but the mere fact that some people now see them as a repository for protest votes is very worrying. One of Britain's proudest moments is our stand against Nazism and yet the public is beginning to see all other alternatives as being worse, that IS generally how bad things are.

The other thing I must note is that the allegations of leftist tactics by some in the comment threads here is not unfounded, having been on the receiving end just a few days ago. I'm going to continue posting here as I have been, and ignoring people who respond without providing anything to address, a minority, but it was disappointing to see such behaviour, a disappointment I've also seen in people around me who no longer bother posting here much because of such behaviour.

As such, my stance from here on out is going to be as simple as I can make it. I will not condone, support or ally with Racist, Supremacist or otherwisely prejudicial or stereotyping groups promoting intolerance and exclusion. The enemy of my enemy is not my necessarily my friend. And those two facts hold true no matter who the groups in question, what the surrounding situation and irrespective of the odds. As a fundamental position to hold, I cannot think of a better one to defend my principles from.

re: #121 infidelesto

See #110 for an explanation

re: #137 buzzsawmonkey

Sorry. I really should have said "what became " the Ottoman Empire. I was trying to be brief and just give an example. But I think my point still stands.

Do not ally yourself with white supremacists. Do not spend a second musing "they have a point about X, Y or Z." Walk away.

re: #30 Terp Mole
I haven't had time (or inclination) to step into this family squabble... but it strikes me as an awful lot of 7-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon "reasoning."

I'm reminded of the Leftist memes surrounding Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.

Vlaams Belang leader Koen Dillen has a photograph of Adolf Hitler with Leon Degrelle, signed by Degrelle personally. Maybe you think that's a trivial "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" connection -- but I definitely do not.

Sorry I missed that... guess fjordman was twisting his mustache somewhere in the background?

I'm sure there's a picture somewhere of President Bush with Saddam's pistol hanging on his wall somewhere... maybe we'll find zombie in the background. I just don't see it.

btw: I also enjoy Indiana Jones reruns... snakes and Nazis, yikes!

Isn't there a war going on somewhere?

re: #121 infidelesto
#121 infidelesto 11/14/07 9:17:48 am reply quote report 0

I just can't believe this has come to this point. It's sad to see fighting go on between bloggers who seem to have most things in common yet situations like this. I have both Gates of Vienna and LGF on my blogroll at my blog and I read them both regularly, and while I agree with Charles wholeheartedly on the issue, especially with what happened with Atlas, It's just sad to see ally vs ally.

It should be allies vs the Islamist Jihad movement. That's really ultimately why we're here doing this blogging thing in the first place.

Anti-Jihad bloggers should stick together and remember the REAL reason why we blog.

I don' wan' no stinkin' nazis in the tent!

re: #109 marwan's daughter

"The illustrious Pamela". Well I don't need to ask which side he's taken.

I'll wait to actually read it before making a decision. JW and DW are blocked here at work.

re: #121 infidelesto

I just can't believe this has come to this point. It's sad to see fighting go on between bloggers who seem to have most things in common yet situations like this. I have both Gates of Vienna and LGF on my blogroll at my blog and I read them both regularly, and while I agree with Charles wholeheartedly on the issue, especially with what happened with Atlas, It's just sad to see ally vs ally.

It should be allies vs the Islamist Jihad movement. That's really ultimately why we're here doing this blogging thing in the first place.

Anti-Jihad bloggers should stick together and remember the REAL reason why we blog.

I, like Charles, don't see the point in being on the same side with, or linked in any way to a bunch of in-the-closet, racist Nazis....psuedo or not. there is no room in a free world for another Nazi rise to power. We can win this thing without them - we don't have to join up with Nazi facists to beat islamo- facism...we can do it alone - and then we can turn our attention to defeating them and their twisted racist ideology.

"If the readers of Little Green Footballs have any good suggestions on to how I can roll back the Islamization of the West, I’m all ears. And I’m not being sarcastic, I really want to hear it. ... But if he ( Charles) believes that not cooperating with the Vlaams Belang is more important than preventing Europe from falling to Islam, then, with respect, I think he is missing the bigger picture. And don’t give us the lecture about how there are “other alternatives.” No, there aren’t, so do us all a favor and stop pretending that there are."

This is the heart of the problem for two reasons.

First, Fjordman is conflating support for the VB with support for preventing an Islamized Europe. It's not. The VB is not Europe's last, best hope.

Second, Fjordman doesn't understand that the real battle over Islamic fundamentalism is not in Europe but the Middle East. He resents any shift away from his Eurocentric view.

re: #144 Killgore Trout

re: #109 marwan's daughter

I'm very disappointed in Mr. Spencer.

So am I....I started posting on jihad watch before I found LGF.

I've actually enjoyed reading Gates of Vienna over the years, but like Charles, I have lost a lost of respect for Fjordman over his support of Vlaams Belang.

Europe has all the problems associated with rampant leftism and wide open immigration policies. And we can all agree that a lot of Muslims have not integrated very well into their new home countries. Charles has exposed many of us to a dark side of some right wing parties gaining steam over there. Without Little Green Footballs, I would have never heard of Vlaams Belang.

Thank you Charles.

re: #112 buzzsawmonkey

What makes the EU necessary?

It's a very long story. It was begun after World War I - not World War II - to link France's and Germany's coal and steel industry so they would become economically interdependent and therefore unable to wage war. That's the way it was sold - there's always been another agenda - the abolition of the nation-state.

Hey Charles, Maybe you need to add a fascist character to the LGF logo of the moonbat and the Islamist at the top of the page.

re: #156 storagemanager

Why dissappointment in Mr. Spencer?

Can I get a synopsis? Can't watch the video.. in the midst of work right now.

Thanks..

Actually in the beginning Charles only pointed out the links and counseled caution. Then the gates of Hades opened and they poured lava out on him. These groups are insinuating themselves into the mainstream, they need people like Charles and Atlas to be their mask. He wouldn't play and so they are fooking angry.

re: #159 Ringo the Gringo

Hey Charles, Maybe you need to add a fascist character to the LGF logo of the moonbat and the Islamist at the top of the page.

Second that!

re: #21 Poitiers-Lepanto

I apologize for re-posting here my two posts from the DT:

I have forced myself to read the whole thing and the problem is always the same: he talks about everything EXCEPT the MOUNTAIN of evidence published by Charles about the connections between some persons at the famous meeting and neonazism in Europe. He just doesn't discuss it and he talks in the same way ALL the neofascist sympathizers talked during the cold war: in that time they used the (REAL) commie danger, today they use the (REAL) islamofascist danger, but the point is always the same, they want to spread their violent ideas, their horror "philosophies" and the enemy is just an excuse.
But I notice that he has toned down a lot his use of "WHITE" (this and that and that else), a word that was a trademark of all his columns.
Evidently he is in bad faith and now he tries to play the good boy.

And all his talk about the VB and the other shady forces AS true forces in the fight against the jihadists is just empty talk: the neofascists in Europe are not a "force", they are just a liability, a problem, and I accuse them of being provoking agents, actually helping the enemy.
On the whole, typical neofascist doublespeak.
Garbage.

Many who have not lived many years listening to the same kind of doublespeak will be tricked into believing he is in good faith.
I strongly advise everybody to become familiar with ALL the evidence published by Charles and particularly with the names involved in the "BRING A FLOWER TO AN SS TOMB" shame.
Like with the commies, only a thorough inspection of the neofascists' actions and omissions will reveal the truth behind the wormtonguish words.

I've remained on the sidelines watching this rancor while assimilating the facts. As you point out, Fjordman et al provides a "political" answer to all of the allegations. He simply chooses to ignore the facts. Fjordman's "goodbye" speech is full of emotional hyperbole - a classic "liberal" ploy.

Charles should be commended for calling into question the shady associations and past dealings of some of these "anti-Jihadists". We need their support as much as we need the ilk of David Duke or Randy Weber. My message to Fjordman and those who have similar allegiances is take a hike.

re: #151 buzzsawmonkey

re: #118 Shug

I just called MGM grand Las vegas Sports Book

Current odds on Fjordman returning to make another dramatic exit are 3:1 in favor

Given the blocked status of his account, I'd say that's a sucker bet.

good point :)

but

Perhaps like many WWII vets from the losing side who fled to Argentina, he will return with a new screen name like Pablo or salsaman

re: #159 Ringo the Gringo

Hey Charles, Maybe you need to add a fascist character to the LGF logo of the moonbat and the Islamist at the top of the page.

love it! That would be perfect and would send a clear message!

Nazis stay away!

This whole debate demonstrates why I am against PC speech codes, even to the extent that "hate speech" and Holocaust denial are criminalized. Eurpoean politics are so steeped in history, code words, and ancient affiliations, I prefer that people be allowed, even encouraged, to speak their mind, even if it is "hate speech". That way it is much easier to decide what these political parties stand for without the necessity of seeking guidance from a European Poli Sci professor. Sheesh.

re: #142 wahabicorridor
142 wahabicorridor 11/14/07 9:22:46 am reply quote report 1

re: #111 karmic_inquisitor

What you have in Europe are two camps - the vocal multiculturalists and the silent racists.

I can confirm. I had a conversation where I was told that unless I have Native American background, I had no moral authority to comment on 'racist America'. When told some of my ancestors were Shawnee, that a book and a movie have been made about them, I was duly pronounced - wait for it 'intelligent'. The bastard then asked what kind of work I do. He was told I teach international relations at the Kemosabe School for Indian Princesses.

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAAA

re: #123 Former Belgian

re: #99 Ward Cleaver

re: #86 Kirly

you know, i haven't been able to keep up with all this but it's already over for me.

Fjordman - what is wrong with you? they're nazis, you fool!

And it's double bad, because the VB and SD numbers are small, and the legitimization they get from the counter-jihadi affiliation can only increase their numbers. Not good.

The SD [and, [vomit], BNP] numbers are small all right. The VB, unfortunately, is a major party in Flanders and the #1 party in Antwerp.

Yes, but now that the CD's are taking a harder line, wouldn't you expect their numbers to start falling?

re: #79 Owl

re: #57 opnion

probably the same way the gay groups took the rainbow, and the skinheads took the Confederate Battle Flag. You want it you just take it I guess.....and soon, just because you are using it - the symbol is unfit for use by the original users......which is right i guess....cause now a rainbow sticker on a car means your gay and a "rebel flag" in your truck makes you a racist.

* sigh.....

/longs for simplier times...

I think that you have nailed it. They just took it because it was there.
These people are not original thinkers

re: #91 storagemanager

Not to belittle the odious Hungarian pro-nazi regime, under Regent Admiral Miklos Horthy, but there is an apocryphal story that I find amusing. It is said that when Hungary declared war on the allies, the Hungarian ambassador paid a call on the US State Department, and the conversation went something like this:
Ambassador: "The Kingdom of Hungary regretfully declares that, from this moment on, it is at war with the United States of America."
State Department Receptionist: "All right, let me get some details. First, who is your King?"
Ambassador: "The Kingdom of Hungary has no King. We have an Admiral."
Receptionist: "You have an Admiral? Then you must have a fleet. Where is it based?"
Ambassador: "The Kingdom of Hungary has no naval base. We are a landlocked country."
Receptionist (confusedly): "Well, let's try this: what is your argument with the United States?"
Ambassador: "The Kingdom of Hungary has no argument with the United States. Our only argument is with Romania."
Receptionist: "Then you are also declaring war on Romania?"
Ambassador" "No. Romania is our ally."

re: #160 astronmr20

re: #156 storagemanager

Why dissappointment in Mr. Spencer?

Can I get a synopsis? Can't watch the video.. in the midst of work right now.

Thanks..

He seems to siding with Atlas Shrugs...but more important...read the commments at LGF....they are over the top....Charles would ban some of those people.

Hey Fjordman!

You can go your own way
Go your own way
You can call it another lonely day
You can go your own way
Go your own way!

BTW, Peacekeeper, is your nickname a reference to the Fleetwood Mac song?

The Torch reviews Christie Blatchford's wonderful book, "Fifteen Days"

Full disclosure: I'm a big fan of Christie Blatchford's writing. So it was with high expectations that I recently picked up Fifteen Days, her newest book. As you might expect from the cover photo, it's about Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan, and their families back home. Or, more accurately, about Christie's impressions of those soldiers and families.

Some might find that personal perspective unwelcome, but I'm not one of them, as regular readers will already know. Here at The Torch, we tell readers up front that we're pro-Canadian Forces, and expect them to read our pieces with that in mind. Blatchford, to her credit, doesn't pretend to be an unbiased observer: she admits her sympathies lie with the average soldier, which is a far more honest option as I see it.

Also: audio file of an interview with Blatchford

And: a video interview with Blatch.

As you can tell, I've long been a fan of Blatchford's work; as a sports writer, a crime reporter, city hall reporter, and now as an imbed in Af'stan. Her style has always been direct, honest, human and she hasn't a PC gene in her body.

Could be

re: #109 marwan's daughter

"The illustrious Pamela". Well I don't need to ask which side he's taken.

Check it again: comments at Jihadwatch:

Hmmm. The illustrious Pamela. So I guess I know which side you've taken.

Posted by: wrathofasma at November 14, 2007 12:10 PM
wrathofasma:

No, you don't.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at November 14, 2007 12:15 PM

ooops, link here

re: #112 buzzsawmonkey

A small example which may grate on the sensibilities of an American, but important here in Europe; the death penalty. No country can join the EU unless it discards the death penalty. The reason behind this is that in totalitarian Europe the death penalty was used against political opponents by using trumped-up charges. Remember it was a CRIME to be Jewish, a Crime to be a communist etc etc. America doesn't have Europes glorious heritage.

re: #155 MJ
Good point, MJ.

Here's Denmark today.... [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Denmark's centre-right government of Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen has won a snap election, securing a third consecutive term in office.
His Liberal-Conservative coalition and allies won 90 of the 179 seats in parliament
.....
Mr Rasmussen now faces tough talks on whether to expand the ruling bloc by including a new party led by a Syria-born Palestinian immigrant. ..... New Alliance party, headed by Naser Khader, a Palestinian immigrant. The party won five seats.

Oh, what to do, what to do?
Isn't 90 out of 179 a majority?

re: #155 MJ

"If the readers of Little Green Footballs have any good suggestions on to how I can roll back the Islamization of the West, I’m all ears. And I’m not being sarcastic, I really want to hear it. ... But if he ( Charles) believes that not cooperating with the Vlaams Belang is more important than preventing Europe from falling to Islam, then, with respect, I think he is missing the bigger picture. And don’t give us the lecture about how there are “other alternatives.” No, there aren’t, so do us all a favor and stop pretending that there are."

This is the heart of the problem for two reasons.

First, Fjordman is conflating support for the VB with support for preventing an Islamized Europe. It's not. The VB is not Europe's last, best hope.

Second, Fjordman doesn't understand that the real battle over Islamic fundamentalism is not in Europe but the Middle East. He resents any shift away from his Eurocentric view.

I think we've been watching Europe seal it's own fate for a few years now, if not longer. So I guess now we're supposed to just accept any ole way they choose to deal with the problems that they let happen? whatever.

I can also see it slowly eating away at America. we've got to do more here, and do better in getting the word out that we don't want facist islam or facist Nazism here. ever.

re: #171 storagemanager

re: #160 astronmr20

re: #156 storagemanager

Why dissappointment in Mr. Spencer?

Can I get a synopsis? Can't watch the video.. in the midst of work right now.

Thanks..

He seems to siding with Atlas Shrugs...but more important...read the commments at LGF....they are over the top....Charles would ban some of those people.

PIMF....I meant jihad watch...geessss...

Nazism is immoral and intolerable, and I vigorously applaud Charles's decision to take a strong and unequivocal stand about this. It's akin to William F Buckley's stance against the John Birch wing of the anti-communist movement in the 1950s.

re: #158 wahabicorridor

And also the desire to create an economic and political powerhouse to rival the superpowers of the rest of the world, of which America is now the sole remainder, though for how much longer that will hold true is unknown, by which I mean the rise of China, the slow restoration of Russia...

I still think it was a terrible idea to put an ex-member of the KGB in charge, he refuses to accept the Cold War might have ended.

re: #155 MJ

"If the readers of Little Green Footballs have any good suggestions on to how I can roll back the Islamization of the West, I’m all ears. And I’m not being sarcastic, I really want to hear it. ... But if he ( Charles) believes that not cooperating with the Vlaams Belang is more important than preventing Europe from falling to Islam, then, with respect, I think he is missing the bigger picture. And don’t give us the lecture about how there are “other alternatives.” No, there aren’t, so do us all a favor and stop pretending that there are."

This is the heart of the problem for two reasons.

First, Fjordman is conflating support for the VB with support for preventing an Islamized Europe. It's not. The VB is not Europe's last, best hope.

Second, Fjordman doesn't understand that the real battle over Islamic fundamentalism is not in Europe but the Middle East. He resents any shift away from his Eurocentric view.

That's exactly right, if you note he's alway been virulently against the war in Iraq.

I just read through about 1/2 of Fjordman's post (I don't have time to read through all of it, and I felt I had read enough by that point). What stands out to me is the use of the words "heritage" and "indigenous people," which, as we've come to learn, means "white." It seems that's all that these folks have to defend themselves with, against the Muslim invaders. And that's very sad, as well as racist. What the anti-jihad movement must focus on are values. What values distinguish Western Civilization (and Europe in particular, in this instance)? Values are something that anyone can subscribe to. Draw a hard line on values, and you protect Europe. Europe needs to (re)discover its soul. Being white isn't Europe's heritage. Europe wasn't built on whiteness.

re: #175 Dead Sea Squirrel

re: #109 marwan's daughter

"The illustrious Pamela". Well I don't need to ask which side he's taken.

Check it again: comments at Jihadwatch:

Hmmm. The illustrious Pamela. So I guess I know which side you've taken.

Posted by: wrathofasma at November 14, 2007 12:10 PM
wrathofasma:

No, you don't.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at November 14, 2007 12:15 PM

Yes, wrathofasma is me. Maybe I was too harsh. But he has still remained silent about this.

re: #159 Ringo the Gringo

That's a damn fine idea.

About Robert Spencer, by the way -- he did post early on about this, and disavowed any connections with shady European parties.

"He's pining for the fjords!" wakka, wakka, wakka.

re: #136 world turned upside down

(It feels like my parents are fighting.)

I've been trying to find the words to express my feelings about this unfortunate rift and you've come as close as I could. While "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," I'm similarly reminded of another expression (regarding appeasement): something about feeding the crocodile so that he will eat you last. I suppose it's possible that--taken to the extreme--that's where this European anti-jihad-neo-nazi confluence could lead.

*sigh*

Mainz, Germany - Five suspected neo-Nazis have been charged over a racist attack that put a Sudanese man in hospital and left an Egyptian injured, prosecutors said Wednesday. The group, whose ages range from 17 to 29, has been charged with causing grievous bodily harm to their victims at a summer festival in the west German town of Guntersblum.

The assailants kicked and punched the two men and beat them with a wine bottle, according to witnesses. The Sudanese was admitted to hospital with serious injuries. The Egyptian suffered cuts to his hand.

The attack occurred the same night as a mob chased a group of Indians through the streets of the east German town on Muegeln and tried to kick down the doors of a restaurant where they sought shelter.

[Link: www.earthtimes.org...]

It is a sad day when people who are allegedly intelligent are so blind that they cannot see the forest for the trees.

What is the most baffling to me is why they still, with so much evidence to the contrary, that it should be impossible to ignore, and they certainly have not been able to refute, to continue being too stubborn, and too self-serving to offer a simple apology, and get on with fighting these neo-nazis? I see frightening reminders of the 1930's in what is happening, and those who side with Vlaams Belang et al are fools. That they have the internet to spread their propaganda on?

Scary, as I do not think their followers bother to do what Charles has in presenting irrefutable evidence of the make up and intent of these groups.

A war on the internet between bloggers like Pamela and her ilk is one thing..it is using hollow words...the kind of war those in these groups in Europe and their tools here could start will possibly bring on a real war.

To Pamela and her cult? STFU. Fjordman? We hardly knew you, and Gates of Vienna? Try group therapy with your confused buddies.

re: #11 Innismir

Offtopic already? Yes!

Islamic Polygamy in Sharon, MA

I'm sure my fellow massholes are tripping over themselves to say that this is cultural and isn't a bad thing.

*sigh*

Not this Masshole, bro.

re: #188 Charles

About Robert Spencer, by the way -- he did post early on about this, and disavowed any connections with shady European parties.

Charles...I stopped commenting there after hateful comments about LGF were left to stand.

re: #188 Charles

About Robert Spencer, by the way -- he did post early on about this, and disavowed any connections with shady European parties.

Which is no doubt why she turned on the charm to bring him over to her side of the street.

re: #189 Oh no...Sand People!

"He's pining for the fjords!" wakka, wakka, wakka.

All of Europe is pining for the fjords if there are no centrists speaking out against fundamentalist Islam.

Just goes to show that Europe and America really are different. From the bottom up. Which is why we are who we are. and may we long remain so. The one thing not 'gotten' by our European friends is that we spent blood and treasure to free Europe from Fascism once. Jumping back in bed with them now to face the jihad is puzzling and disturbing to many Americans, especially considering the ideological connections between jihad and fascism. Is the enemy of my enemy really my friend?

re: #162 marwan's daughter

re: #159 Ringo the Gringo

Hey Charles, Maybe you need to add a fascist character to the LGF logo of the moonbat and the Islamist at the top of the page.

Second that!

The motion has been seconded, can we have a Cox & Forkum cartoon, just one last, out of retirement?

#167 debutaunt, This is a real problem with the multicultural movement. Frankly it's idiotic. If your family has been in American more than 3 generations, you've probably got claims to at least 3 ethnic groups. I'm German Irish French English Ojibway my self.

re: #111 karmic_inquisitor

I think you nailed it pretty well. I've seen the "quiet racism" with my cousin as far back as fifteen years ago when he was complaining about "the f-cking Turks and Kurds" in my relatives' corner of Hesse. On the other hand, one of his friends was stabbed to death by a "youth" in a country village that probably hasn't seen murder in decades.

(On the flip side again, his circle of friends contains two very assimilated Iranians who speak fluent German. I met them between September 11th and the Iraq war. One of them wished he could come to the U.S.A. and get a pilot's license - he was flying gliders over there - but he knew that wasn't going to happen post-Sep. 11th. I have no idea what they'd say to me now, after years of Iraq and this business with Ahmedinejad.)

I'm confused by the way "white" Europeans don't seem to be able to concieve of ideology and culture as being separate from ethnicity. I supposed that's the confusion you get when you beat somebody in a war, re-arrange their government for them, but then they teach themselves that any flag-waving or overt patriotism is dangerous. I've always had the sense that in Europe and Germany especially, they're a bit lost when it comes to self-identity. Between "I live in this village" and "I'm not American" there's a big gray middle ground with no clear message. As we've seen, a significant portion of incoming Muslims don't have that problem.

Sarkozy seems so non-traditional-European, they don't know how to slander him yet.

re: #168 Thanos

re: #123 Former Belgian

The SD [and, [vomit], BNP] numbers are small all right. The VB, unfortunately, is a major party in Flanders and the #1 party in Antwerp.

Yes, but now that the CD's are taking a harder line, wouldn't you expect their numbers to start falling?

Probably, yes. It used to be the largest party in Flanders since time immemorial, and as a result became smug, arrogant, and terribly corrupt. (Not to mention that they were basically "for Catholics only" until recently.) A long "opposition cure" may have done them some good.

In addition, this new "Lijst Dedecker" might grab a chunk of the VB electorate, and they've already gotten some VB defectors such as Juergen Verstrepen (one of the "base broadening candidates" they wooed in).

Dedecker, of course, appears to be an antisemitic A-hole --- but there are some good people like the Nova Civitas crowd.

re: #174 Peacekeeper

S&W Peacekeeper?

I just want to take this opportunity to say "Thank you Charles. I agree with you 100%."

Folks, we are not fighting with bullets for the soil of Belgium. Not yet, and hopefully not ever. In such a case, one might argue that if someone came to the front line, aimed his rifle at the enemy, and started shooting that one should accept him and save questions for later.

But we are fighting an idealogical battle today! In the intellectual realm, what matters is the quality of one's ideas and the quality of people willing to understand and avance those ideas.

The nazis don't help us at all. But they need our help to attain the appearance of legitemacy.

re: #167 debutaunt

I teach international relations at the Kemosabe School for Indian Princesses.

Heh.

re: #185 marwan's daughter

re: #175 Dead Sea Squirrel

re: #109 marwan's daughter

"The illustrious Pamela". Well I don't need to ask which side he's taken.

Check it again: comments at Jihadwatch:

Hmmm. The illustrious Pamela. So I guess I know which side you've taken.

Posted by: wrathofasma at November 14, 2007 12:10 PM
wrathofasma:

No, you don't.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at November 14, 2007 12:15 PM

Yes, wrathofasma is me. Maybe I was too harsh. But he has still remained silent about this.

Maybe he sees her as a wayward child. You still love them, even if they stray. I still hope she (and Fjordman, and others) will come to their senses.

re: #138 slartybartfast

I don't know what's posted over in kosland since the corporate firewall blocks me with the following message: "The requested URL belongs to the following categories: Politics/Opinion, Personal Pages, Profanity." I must say: I concur.

They got the order wrong, it should be Profanity, Politics/Opinion, Profanity, Personal Pages, Profanity.

re: #192 storagemanager
See, that's going to lead to even more protection for immigrants.
Sort of a 'law of unintended consequences' thing.
Why align with groups whose members undermine fair and legal identification of and dealing with problem immigrants?

re: #182 Elydo

by which I mean the rise of China, the slow restoration of Russia...

It may not be as dire as we assumed.

In a little-noticed mid-summer announcement, the Asian Development Bank presented official survey results indicating China’s economy is smaller and poorer than established estimates say. The announcement cited the first authoritative measure of China’s size using purchasing power parity methods. The results tell us that when the World Bank announces its expected PPP data revisions later this year, China’s economy will turn out to be 40 per cent smaller than previously stated.

This more accurate picture of China clarifies why Beijing concentrates so heavily on domestic priorities such as growth, public investment, pollution control and poverty reduction. The number of people in China living below the World Bank’s dollar-a-day poverty line is 300m – three times larger than currently estimated.

The limits of a smaller, poorer China

re: #183 Thanos

That's exactly right, if you note he's alway been virulently against the war in Iraq.

From what I recall he was only against it in terms of the waste of coalition soldier's lives, and that if Shias and Sunnis want to kill each other then we should just leave them to it.

The war against Islamofascism must become a priority of the political mainstream, if we are to survive. We need to build bridges between conservatives, democrats, liberals & social democrats. Reaching out to racists will only alienate the mainstream.

Guilt-By-Association is historically a tricky proposition, sometimes applied inconsistently and incoherently. Here are two examples.

Ronald Reagan visited Bitburg, Germany and laid a wreath of flowers at a German military cemetary containing SS soldiers' graves. The MSM loudly criticized Reagan as being anti-Semitic, fascist, etc.

Margaret Sanger founded Planned Parenthood. She was an outspoken and unrepentent leader of the pre-WWII eugenics movement that was openly racist and had close ties with 1930s Nazi eugenics proponents. Yet, despite PP's statistically disproportionate presence in racial minority neighborhoods, the MSM has never suggested PP as being racist or fascist.

re: #192 storagemanager

Mainz, Germany - Five suspected neo-Nazis have been charged over a racist attack that put a Sudanese man in hospital and left an Egyptian injured, prosecutors said Wednesday. The group, whose ages range from 17 to 29, has been charged with causing grievous bodily harm to their victims at a summer festival in the west German town of Guntersblum. The assailants kicked and punched the two men and beat them with a wine bottle, according to witnesses. The Sudanese was admitted to hospital with serious injuries. The Egyptian suffered cuts to his hand.

The attack occurred the same night as a mob chased a group of Indians through the streets of the east German town on Muegeln and tried to kick down the doors of a restaurant where they sought shelter.

[Link: www.earthtimes.org...]

The heroes of the snowwhite fourth reich: five to two.

Provoking agents helping the islamic invasion, that's all.

And SOBs.

re: #36 threecoloursblue

Please note the real agenda here is the breakup of the EU.

And what is wrong with that? The EU is rapidly becoming a totalitarian socialist supergovernment that answers to noone but itself. The end result will either be utter subjugation of the entire continent to an unelected and unaccountable socialist rule or a continent-wide civil war. Can't think of anything worse than either of those!

The problem isn't the fight against the monster that the EU is becoming/has become. The problem is that some are blinded to (or complicit with) the threat of neo-nazism and white supremacism in their fight against the creeping monster of Islamofacism.

re: #214 nolocon

Guilt-By-Association is historically a tricky proposition, sometimes applied inconsistently and incoherently. Here are two examples.

Ronald Reagan visited Bitburg, Germany and laid a wreath of flowers at a German military cemetary containing SS soldiers' graves. The MSM loudly criticized Reagan as being anti-Semitic, fascist, etc.

Margaret Sanger founded Planned Parenthood. She was an outspoken and unrepentent leader of the pre-WWII eugenics movement that was openly racist and had close ties with 1930s Nazi eugenics proponents. Yet, despite PP's statistically disproportionate presence in racial minority neighborhoods, the MSM has never suggested PP as being racist or fascist.

That's easy. Because the MSM hated Reagan, and loves Planned Parenthood.

re: #150 Terp Mole

Sorry I missed that... guess fjordman was twisting his mustache somewhere in the background?

I'm sure there's a picture somewhere of President Bush with Saddam's pistol hanging on his wall somewhere... maybe we'll find zombie in the background. I just don't see it.

A time magazine piece (with no photo evidence) from the 2004 election season claiming Bush has Saddam's gun and a picture of people praying? Come on.

It's not even remotely the same thing anyway, if it's true.

I read Gates of Vienna for quite a while, but stopped reading some time back. I found that my dissenting opinions/questions on some topics that I posted in the comments section were regularly met with condescension, or outright insults. I found it virtually impossible to actually engage in a discussion/debate of the issues there. Now, there are of course members here who insult those who disagree too. But there are also those who stand up for the insulted, if they have a rational question/opinion.

So, if we say that we would like to limit all immigration, not just Muslim immigration, to ensure that the natives remain the majority in their own lands, is this to be considered racism? If so, does that mean that we have an obligation to commit cultural and demographic suicide because we are white?

I'm sorry, this sounds EXACTLY like the materials distributed by Stormfront and other white power groups in our own country. I fail to see how anyone could claim differently. Nativism is sheep's clothing for racism.

Like many others here, I've only been following this topic superficially.

That being said, it appears that while the leftists/socialists in the U.S. have found ideological common ground with the Islamists, something more sinister is happening in Europe- there, the forces of fascism seem to be raising their heads in an effort to combat Islam.

Personally, I always found Fjordman's essay's/comments interesting; however, the facts in this story speak for themselves. Unfortunately, I expect that this is just the tip of the iceberg, and many others will slide to the side of hatred in order to combat Islam.

re: #179 Owl

Fjordman used the logical falicy known as the "false dichotomy"; the choice is either A or B. You don't like A? Then you are forcing us to accept B. Well, Fjordman is wrong, there are other choices, such as building bridges to mainstream parties. The fact is, by aligning with racists & neo-nazis, they are alienating the mainstream and weakening the ability of Europeans to fight the Islamofascists.

re: #213 Kenneth

The war against Islamofascism must become a priority of the political mainstream, if we are to survive. We need to build bridges between conservatives, democrats, liberals & social democrats. Reaching out to racists will only alienate the mainstream.

We have here the left who hopes we loose a war in order to advance their own political power. Don't hold your breath about any bridges being built unless we have another attack worse than 9/11.

re: #186 buzzsawmonkey

No-ones sojurn in a foreign land was sweetness and light in the period I'm talking about. And Jews weren't the only persecuted minority. The Cathars being a case in point..the original "kill them all, God will know his own " people.
Muslims are a minority in the countries under discussion here. Italians are the biggest immigrant group in Belgium. An expanded EC has not stopped but certainly slowed down Muslim immigration into Europe.
Read what the Algerian GIF did to liberal, francofone people. Are you sure you'd hang in there going " why can't we all get along " ?

re: #188 Charles

I don't expect him to shun people over insults and blog wars but he's praising someone who has posted two articles recently about the racial inferiority of blacks and other nonwhites by calling Pamela "Illustrious". She an open supporter of the White Nationalist party Vlaams Belang.
He can't be associated with these people. Could he praise a blogger from Stormfront and get away with it? It taints his entire message and his reputation.

re: #180 storagemanager

re: #171 storagemanager

re: #160 astronmr20

re: #156 storagemanager
Why dissappointment in Mr. Spencer?

Can I get a synopsis? Can't watch the video.. in the midst of work right now.

Thanks..

He seems to siding with Atlas Shrugs...but more important...read the commments at LGF....they are over the top....Charles would ban some of those people.

PIMF....I meant jihad watch...geessss...

I don't think Robert has the ability to ban people, IIRC.

re: #204 Bearster

I just want to take this opportunity to say "Thank you Charles. I agree with you 100%."

Folks, we are not fighting with bullets for the soil of Belgium. Not yet, and hopefully not ever. In such a case, one might argue that if someone came to the front line, aimed his rifle at the enemy, and started shooting that one should accept him and save questions for later.

But we are fighting an idealogical battle today! In the intellectual realm, what matters is the quality of one's ideas and the quality of people willing to understand and avance those ideas.

The nazis don't help us at all. But they need our help to attain the appearance of legitemacy.

In that light( of a real war), I'd just be sure after the firefight was over, that I got the jump on Adolf before he got it on me.
You make very good points and it's posts like yours that make LGF a great place to be. I don't think we've lost anyone ....i think they've outed themselves as something we never imagined they could be.

IMNSHO, Charles and LGF are holding the line for truth and righteous resolve, and the Nazi sympathizers are nuttin' up because the jig is up.

re: #214 nolocon

Ronald Reagan visited Bitburg, Germany and laid a wreath of flowers at a German military cemetary containing SS soldiers' graves. The MSM loudly criticized Reagan as being anti-Semitic, fascist, etc.

Most of the criticism revolved around the notion that President Reagan was equating the perpetrators of the Holocaust with the victims of the Holocaust. In my opinion, the criticism was entirely justified.

Meanwhile in Germany: Neo-Nazi voices are drowned out...

To the dull beat of a drum, 200 black-clad neo-Nazis and grizzled German war veterans marched through this hilltop Bavarian village yesterday to make their own contribution to Remembrance Sunday.

But in a move that is being hailed as a model of civil disobedience, the whole village revolted. Some locals swaddled themselves in white sheets and pinned life-size photographs of concentration camp victims to their backs. Songs from Yom Kippur – the Jewish Day of Atonement – blared out through megaphones. And as they marched through the medieval gate of the village, the neo-Nazis passed underneath a large improvised banner announcing “Arbeit Macht Frei” (“Work Makes You Free”) – the cynical slogan attached to the entrance of Auschwitz.

The neo-Nazis, holding aloft banners saying “We honour the Fallen of the Wehrmacht”, were confronted by massive pictures of emaciated Jewish prisoners draped over Gräfenberg’s 15th-century façades. A few of the marchers flinched. Most turned their heads away or just smiled.

“I think it is extraordinary what this village is doing,” said Gisela Naomi Blume, chairwoman of the Jewish community in nearby Fuerth. “If Germans had made such a strong showing against Nazis in 1938, history would have turned out differently.”

The nationalist radicals made their way up the valley in driving rain and sleet to lay their wreath on the Michelsberg, a striking war memorial.

Neo-Nazis have targeted the village with monthly marches, making it a de facto shrine for the extreme Right. It may be because an ancient Germanic burial ground is reputed to be near by. Or it may be that the far-right National Party of Germany is trying to win council seats in Bavaria.

The village of 4,000 has responded by privatising the ground near the war memorial.Villagers have drowned out the neo-Nazis’ speeches with loud music, chainsaws and banged pots and pans. The plan yesterday was to stay silent and let the pictures speak for themselves. But as the neo-Nazis shuffled through Market Square, glaring at the villagers glaring at them, a small group started to yell “Nazis Out!”

Which group would fjordman rather have in his foxhole, the neo-Nazis or the villagers shouting "Nazis Out" ?

re: #220 shibumi

others will slide to the side of hatred in order to combat Islam.

side with hatred to fight hatred is not so intelligent.

in other words: don't wear the damned RING !

As much as we enjoyed Fjordman and turned to him for his insight, the choices are clear in response to global jihadism:

Is it replaced by the American model of "melting-pot" representative republic,

OR

White-Power racial supremacy?

Gotta be a simple answer to that one.

re: #11 Innismir

My parents zt"l are buried in Sharon Memorial Park. I feel like puking.

re: #224 Killgore Trout

re: #188 Charles

I don't expect him to shun people over insults and blog wars but he's praising someone who has posted two articles recently about the racial inferiority of blacks and other nonwhites by calling Pamela "Illustrious". She an open supporter of the White Nationalist party Vlaams Belang.
He can't be associated with these people. Could he praise a blogger from Stormfront and get away with it? It taints his entire message and his reputation.

Well said...And like I said...he leaves hateful comments about LGF unchallenged.

re: #201 Pawn of the Oppressor

I've always had the sense that in Europe and Germany especially, they're a bit lost when it comes to self-identity.

There is considerable self-loathing. In a discussion of why Germany is so hesitant to use military force a German - born after WWII - told me that violence is to Germany what cocaine is to an addict and therefore Germany can never, ever be violent again.

He never realized he had just dumped a bucket of blood libel on himself.

re: #225 Honorary Yooper
Yes he does....I saw it done.

re: #205 buzzsawmonkey

There is no one rational for european unity;trade seemed a bit wimpish for this discussion so I offered another.
And when will you be offering yourself up as a candidate for the " lets break up America - being a superstate is bad" Party.

re: #220 shibumi

The power of the Dark Side is strong......

unfortunately.

The most disappointing thing about this brouhaha is the inability of the folks on the "other side" to address the real and valid points Charles has raised. I can understand how anti-jihadists in Europe might consider overlooking some of these things, after all, the media and government elites in Europe have mastered the art of demonizing anybody to the right of Karl Marx as a "right wing extremist". Seeing the very real threat to their freedoms and their politicians and media demonizing every one trying to defend Europe from the growing Islamization of the continent, I can see why they might be willing to "jump into the trenches" with anyone willing to do so regardless of their baggage. To them Islam is the more inmediate and dangerous threat and I think they have a point there.

But closing their minds and criticizing the messenger without at least acknowledging the truth is troubling. If you are going to fight for true freedom it's important to know who you're getting into the trenches with, and what they stand for. To ignore their white supremacist, Nazi sympathizing actions won't do the cause of freedom any good.

Land Shark

re: #210 wahabicorridor

Daily Mail I know, but still... Sobering prospects.

re: #224 Killgore Trout

praising someone who has posted two articles recently about the racial inferiority of blacks and other nonwhites by calling Pamela "Illustrious".

What?

You're confusing Pamela with Brussels Journal, aren't you?

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Notice that he's toned down his deportation rhetoric near the end of the article. He's learing to hide his true ambitions.

Fjordman's question to Charles.......

The indigenous population of all European nations is white. By extension, this means that if the natives want to preserve their majority, this means a white majority. So, if we say that we would like to limit all immigration, not just Muslim immigration, to ensure that the natives remain the majority in their own lands, is this to be considered racism? If so, does that mean that we have an obligation to commit cultural and demographic suicide because we are white?

He doesn't really want to deport just a few trouble making Muslims. He wants a White Europe. That means Asian, black and Jewish populations must be controlled. His population control has nothing to do with assimilation or ideology. It's based on skin color and genetics.

I take it you get the feeling, as I do, that Lebanese, Palestinian or Assyrian Christians are equally unwelcome in his "white Europe" view? What about the Egyptian Copts, the most persecuted Christians on the planet, are they as bad as the Jihadis?

re: #229 buzzsawmonkey

Me thinks the smoke from the bottomless pit is very strong.

re: #228 Ringo the Gringo

Hell yeah. Power to the correct people indeed.

I think Charles nailed it in the podcast posted a day or two ago. White-Power and Nazi are taken very seriously in the US. Europe didn't have the KKK or the intense racial struggles we have.

I was also a big disturbed by Fjordman's post . While I agree that the are jihadiwhackos trying to conquer us thru colonization. I don't think that American's see this has a "white" thing.

We aren't as concerned about color as we are concerned about individuals who don't have our values. I think we would be perfectly happy to be integrated with creatures that are whose skin had blue polka dots and feathers for hair if those creatures did not intend to hijack our constitution.

re: #228 Ringo the Gringo

Interesting times we live in. The handful of the comments at the end of your article link are very very telling...

re: #218 Pawn of the Oppressor
A time magazine piece (with no photo evidence) from the 2004 election season claiming Bush has Saddam's gun and a picture of people praying? Come on.

It's not even remotely the same thing anyway, if it's true.

It's called illustrating absurdity by being absurd.

You know, Lincoln actually had a plan to ship America's blacks to Liberia... guess those pennies make us all racists?

Did you know Washington and Jefferson were.... a slave owners! Founding fathers indeed!

/etc., ad absurdum, ad nauseum

re: #241 Dianna

She linked to both those articles, quoted them and said "read it all". They also appeared at Gates of Vienna. Even without the blog wars and insults she still would be dragged through the mud for posting articles on her blog about the genetic inferiority of non-whites. You just can't do that in today's world and get away with it.

200 billhedrick 11/14/07 9:37:51 am reply quote report 0

#167 debutaunt, This is a real problem with the multicultural movement. Frankly it's idiotic. If your family has been in American more than 3 generations, you've probably got claims to at least 3 ethnic groups. I'm German Irish French English Ojibway my self.

Absolutely idiotic. I've always been fond of the idea of being in the melting pot here. I'm also an individual and don't need to hang on desperately to the Indian or European history in my family. Hitler guessed wrong about America, because out strength came from all those who came here and melted so nicely. re: #200 billhedrick

Since people are asking about the symbolism, especially of the Odin`s Cross among others, I`m going to repost this link by the Interior Ministry the German state of North Rhine Westphalia. The publication "Musik-Mode-Markenzeichen", 4th item down, is a 168 pg PDF document, very heavily illustrated , of the various trappings of the Neo- or Crypto-Nazi movement in Europe, not just Germany. Very profitable to download and recognize all the signs used in this movement, many which have been linked to VB here at LGF. Even if you don`t read German , the wealth of illustrations should be educational. Many of these symbols , including some forms of the Odin`s cross are illegal in Germany (strafbar, also can mean punishable).

Neo-Nazi Signs, Music, Dress

re: #153 Ward Cleaver

re: #109 marwan's daughter

"The illustrious Pamela". Well I don't need to ask which side he's taken.

I'll wait to actually read it before making a decision. JW and DW are blocked here at work.

If an Anti-Jihad site is blocked check out 1389.

re: #240 Elydo

I know it's not supposed to be funny, but.........................

re: #242 Spiny Norman

Somebody posted a great article recently about Ayaan Hrirsi Ali leaving Europe not so much from the fear of Jihadis but also because the European Nationalists (White Nationalists) who were supposed to be on her side were offering her increasingly weak support.

re: #107 Edouard

Fjordman is in denial about the utter lack of popular political viability, in the 21st century, of any alliance that is shot-through with the white-supremacist tumor.

I have to disagree with you there. Fjordman is concerned with Europe, and in Europe there is a vast undercurrent of quiet racism.

As for American sensibilities, which can utterly reject race-based nationalism without being leftist in the slightest, I get the impression that Fman is not in denial, but in deep ignorance.

As Ringo the Gringo said earlier, Fman appears to lack humor. I would add that Fman also lacks imagination and humility. To be specific, that kind of imagination which allows a person to see another person's viewpoint, and that kind of humility that admits an outsider may recognize something in you that you never noticed about yourself.

There are genuine fears about immigration in Europe and the UK (incidentally the biggest number of immigrants to the UK in the past year or two have been white Poles).

Immigration and anti-jihadism overlaps at some points as can be seen by the number of Islamic radicals in the UK who are asylum seekers, but on the whole they are two completely separate issues.

It's interesting that the people who say that these two issues are interconnected then go on to talk about white-only or indigenous populations. There is no mention of the non-white populations who are also affected by radical Islam.

They are either caught 'in the net' of the white nationalist ideology or they have a hidden agenda. For this reason, I support Charles effort to raise awareness about it.

Czech Police Detain Hundreds In Neo-Nazi Clashes

re: #235 buzzsawmonkey

re: #223 threecoloursblue

You can try and recast your post into a coherent set of statements leading to a point anytime you feel like it.

it won't reply. if it does, it'll be a first. that's his M.O. Say something stupid, then ignore anyone that asks for facts to back it up or an explaination. I'm still waiting on the answer to " what do fanatical facist muslim clerics think a " good muslim" should be?"

i'm not holding my breath though, brother. not holding my breath.

Islam is NOT a race. It cannot be said enough. Islam an ideology.