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Fjordman's Dramatic Exit(s)

Wed, Nov 14, 2007 at 8:38:19 am PST

The person using the pseudonym “Fjordman,” who made a dramatic exit from LGF after being challenged on his ideas about the ethnic cleansing of Europe, then came back, then made another dramatic exit after being challenged again, has now made another dramatic exit: My Farewell to Little Green Footballs.

In all the words he’s written, please notice the many facts I’ve posted that he does not address. Nothing about the White Power symbols in the Vlaams Belang youth magazine, nothing about the connections between unrepentant Nazi collaborator Leon Degrelle and top Vlaams Belang officials, nothing about the top VB leaders who fought with police in order to lay flowers on the graves of SS soldiers, nothing about the White Power symbol on Filip DeWinter’s bookshelf, nothing about DeWinter’s calls for a “white Europe.” The list of things Fjordman chooses not to talk about goes on and on. His whole essay amounts to yet another diversionary attack, with absolutely no substance.

The one issue he does address is the Vlaams Belang’s association with Holocaust “minimizer” Jean Marie Le Pen and the far-right European coalition Identity, Tradition, Sovereignty:

However, out of all the information published by LGF, a lot of which is nonsense or outdated or both, the one piece of information that I disliked the most was VB’s connection to Jean-Marie Le Pen from the FN in France through the Identity, Tradition, Sovereignty group at the European Parliament. I don’t like Le Pen at all and consider it to be poor judgment by the VB to have even a formal link to that party. They should seriously consider cutting that link in the future. It’s not helpful.

In the context of everything else that’s been posted, most people would see the association with Le Pen as more evidence of a disturbing agenda—but to Fjordman it’s simply “not helpful,” and “poor judgment.”

The connection to Jean Marie Le Pen, by the way, is anything but peripheral; Vlaams Belang leader Filip DeWinter kept a framed photograph of himself with Le Pen on his bookshelf, and said in an interview that Le Pen was a “father figure” to him.

Read Fjordman’s whole screed for yourself, and then take a look through the volumes of factual evidence I’ve posted, and ask why Fjordman, Gates of Vienna, and Brussels Journal are spending so much time blowing smoke and personally attacking me, instead of addressing the facts.

705 comments

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1 buzzsawmonkey  11/14/07 8:40:29 am reply quote 10

"You can leave in a taxi. If you can't leave in a taxi, you can leave in a huff. If that's too soon, you can leave in a minute and a huff. You know, you haven't stopped talking since I came here? You must have been vaccinated with a phonograph needle."

--Groucho Marx

2 Shug  11/14/07 8:40:41 am reply quote 2
3 dramatic exits .

He reminds me of Evander Holiefield.

Please, if you make a dramatic exit, stay gone already.

3 Honorary Yooper  11/14/07 8:42:22 am reply quote 0

"You won't have Fjordman to kick around anymore."

4 Killgore Trout  11/14/07 8:42:32 am reply quote 5
Nothing about the White Power symbols in the Vlaams Belang youth magazine, nothing about the connections between unrepentant Nazi collaborator Leon Degrelle and top Vlaams Belang officials, nothing about the White Power symbol on Filip DeWinter’s bookshelf, nothing about the photo of DeWinter with Holocaust denier Jean Marie Le Pen (also on DeWinter’s bookshelf), nothing about DeWinter’s calls for a “white Europe.”


Nothing about the current VB leadership marching the lay flowers on SS gaves, etc....
The list goes on and on.

5 Shug  11/14/07 8:43:00 am reply quote -7

Fjordman FOADman

fixed

6 MandyManners  11/14/07 8:43:23 am reply quote 3

Drama King!

7 Honorary Yooper  11/14/07 8:44:07 am reply quote 0

re: #3 Honorary Yooper

"You won't have Fjordman to kick around anymore."

Oh, BTW, that was a quote by Richard M. Fjordman.

8 Mambo Bananapatch  11/14/07 8:45:06 am reply quote 14

I've really enjoyed Fjordman's essays. Over the years, he has made a lot of points that needed to be made. I have not followed and do not pretend to understand the discussion regarding VB but I do think it's sad that Fjordman has taken this approach, again, rather than using his formidable writing abilities to answer whatever points he feels need to be answered. So sad.

9 insanity police  11/14/07 8:45:09 am reply quote 5

It's often not easy or popular to be right. Keep fighting the good fight Charles.

10 Rednek  11/14/07 8:45:21 am reply quote -1

Can't we all just get along?

11 Innismir  11/14/07 8:45:38 am reply quote 1

Offtopic already? Yes!

Islamic Polygamy in Sharon, MA

I'm sure my fellow massholes are tripping over themselves to say that this is cultural and isn't a bad thing.

*sigh*

12 Dianna  11/14/07 8:45:46 am reply quote 0

Are we crashing their server? It's still loading for me after almost 3 minutes.

Or am I getting addicted to instantaneous response?

13 The Other Les  11/14/07 8:46:20 am reply quote 2

There rarely anything more absurd than a self-appointed superior being.

So what else is new?

14 Ojoe  11/14/07 8:46:42 am reply quote 2

'Tis a pity that energy should be wasted in these squabbles.

15 itellu3times  11/14/07 8:46:42 am reply quote 7

Hey look, I like a lot of what Fjordman writes, but it is just plain odd that he couldn't stretch his need for allies to encompass LGF. Speciesist intolerance for reptiles, apparently. May he fight the good fight in his own way, with other featherless bipeds.

16 Dianna  11/14/07 8:46:58 am reply quote 7

re:

17 storagemanager  11/14/07 8:47:31 am reply quote 0
Frankly, I think it undermines the credibility of this website.” I meant that and I still do. It’s quite significant that Jihad Watch linked to this story whereas LGF refused to do so.

I have been thinking hard...about alot of comments I see there.

18 Killgore Trout  11/14/07 8:47:41 am reply quote 4

re:

19 BulgarWheat  11/14/07 8:48:20 am reply quote 10

All in all, I'm a little disappointed to see how things have begun to splinter in a way that I'm pessemistic can ever be fixed and re-enforced.
This is not a criticism against Charles, or anyone else.
I'm just feeling disappointed.

20 Ojoe  11/14/07 8:48:46 am reply quote 0

re:

21 Poitiers-Lepanto  11/14/07 8:48:51 am reply quote 18

I apologize for re-posting here my two posts from the DT:

I have forced myself to read the whole thing and the problem is always the same: he talks about everything EXCEPT the MOUNTAIN of evidence published by Charles about the connections between some persons at the famous meeting and neonazism in Europe. He just doesn't discuss it and he talks in the same way ALL the neofascist sympathizers talked during the cold war: in that time they used the (REAL) commie danger, today they use the (REAL) islamofascist danger, but the point is always the same, they want to spread their violent ideas, their horror "philosophies" and the enemy is just an excuse.
But I notice that he has toned down a lot his use of "WHITE" (this and that and that else), a word that was a trademark of all his columns.
Evidently he is in bad faith and now he tries to play the good boy.

And all his talk about the VB and the other shady forces AS true forces in the fight against the jihadists is just empty talk: the neofascists in Europe are not a "force", they are just a liability, a problem, and I accuse them of being provoking agents, actually helping the enemy.
On the whole, typical neofascist doublespeak.
Garbage.

Many who have not lived many years listening to the same kind of doublespeak will be tricked into believing he is in good faith.
I strongly advise everybody to become familiar with ALL the evidence published by Charles and particularly with the names involved in the "BRING A FLOWER TO AN SS TOMB" shame.
Like with the commies, only a thorough inspection of the neofascists' actions and omissions will reveal the truth behind the wormtonguish words.

22 tfc3rid  11/14/07 8:49:52 am reply quote 9

Fjordman provided an interesting view of the situation in Europe that was very helpful for us.

However, it is very odd and disconcerting that everyone who seems to be siding 'against' LGF and Charles, simply seem to be running away from a serious, factual debate...

23 ratherdashing  11/14/07 8:50:45 am reply quote 4

re:

24 Kirly  11/14/07 8:50:56 am reply quote 7
I am deeply disappointed by how Charles Johnson has handled this situation. It was dishonest when he presented the Vlaams Belang in Belgium as refusing to denounce the Holocaust. (How the heck he makes this jump is beyond me! Why doesn't F address how it was dishonest to present the VB as refusing to denounce the Holocaust? -Kirls) The truth is that the European Union is directly responsible for much of the resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe, both by importing Muslims and by appeasing Jihad at home and abroad. The EU hardly cares about live Jews, certainly not about dead ones. The Holocaust is shamelessly exploited as an excuse for creating an artificial superstate and above all for imposing restrictions on free speech for everybody who wants to oppose this project. That’s what the VB objected to in this case.

none of that BS addresses the first sentence in this paragraph. I thought this guy was a writer? sounds like a propagandist to me.

kirls

ps. yes, i'm back. for a while. until the next crisis explodes in my face.

25 billhedrick  11/14/07 8:51:15 am reply quote 6

after reading the article at American Thinker linking Ron Paul to the Neo-Nazis [Link: www.americanthinker.com...]
This whole kerfuffle doesn't seem so distant anymore.

26 MJ  11/14/07 8:51:23 am reply quote 0

I may not remember correctly, but my recollection is that Fjordman used to post here under a different name. Am I wrong about this?

27 The Other Les  11/14/07 8:51:25 am reply quote 0

Gotta do stuff.

Bye!

28 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 8:52:12 am reply quote 0
Fjordman, who made a dramatic exit from LGF after being challenged on his ideas about the ethnic cleansing of Europe, then came back, then made another dramatic exit after being challenged again, has now made another dramatic exit

Like Muhammed Ali's "retirement".

29 Poitiers-Lepanto  11/14/07 8:53:07 am reply quote 3

re: #22 tfc3rid

Fjordman provided an interesting view of the situation in Europe that was very helpful for us.

I disagree with that too: his analysis was always oriented in a way to frame the situation as a white-non white fight, which is completely out of order and completely UNREAL.
The problem is how to fight islamofascism, not how to create the FOURTH REICH OF THE SNOWWHITES.

30 Terp Mole  11/14/07 8:53:31 am reply quote -5

I haven't had time (or inclination) to step into this family squabble... but it strikes me as an awful lot of 7-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon "reasoning."

I'm reminded of the Leftist memes surrounding Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.

31 storagemanager  11/14/07 8:53:38 am reply quote 3

re: #23 ratherdashing

re:

32 tfc3rid  11/14/07 8:54:11 am reply quote 0

re:

33 Dianna  11/14/07 8:55:03 am reply quote 1

re:

34 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  11/14/07 8:55:59 am reply quote 4

Muslim seethe alert in 5,4,3..

Olmert sets new condition on Palestinian talks

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said on Wednesday talks on Palestinian statehood must be predicated on the recognition of Israel as "the state of the Jewish people", a new Israeli condition.

A senior Palestinian negotiator swiftly rejected Olmert's demand and the issue threatened to complicate attempts to draft a joint document that would serve as the foundation for a U.S.-hosted Middle East conference later this month.

First they ask to be recognized as Jewish State, next thing you know, they'll be expecting the Palis to stop trying to kill them. Doesn't Israel know by now thats no way to get peace with the Palis?

/sarc

35 Peacekeeper  11/14/07 8:56:03 am reply quote 3

My take is that some of these people got hoodwinked, but they can't admit to being dupes. So that must mean Charles iswrong, so they attack him. Particularly that he is leftist, soft, feminine. I haven't heard "decadent" used yet but its' probably just a matter of time.
Those nazis, so hard and thrusting...

36 threecoloursblue  11/14/07 8:56:24 am reply quote 1

Please note the real agenda here is the breakup of the EU. These people are hellbent on putting back the clock so that Europe disintegrates into squabbling nation states that provided the totalitarian nightmares of the 20th century. They fondly imagine that this can be achieved while still keeping borders open for trade.
Bat Ye'or seems to be able to swallow these dubious alliances, as can many other Israel supporters while yelling " anti-semite" at other people who argue for different approaches to the Middle East. Trying to take 1000 years of European anti-semitism and dump it on the Muslim world is a project that will never attract support among the middle ground in either Europe or anywhere else.

37 doppelganglander  11/14/07 8:56:52 am reply quote 9

I'm really sorry about this whole mess. Fjordman's links were always interesting and I appreciated hearing about things happening in Europe that I wouldn't have known about otherwise.

38 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 8:56:57 am reply quote 0

Not that I give a flip about the Kos Kidz' affirmation, but has anybody waded in there to see what their reaction has been to Charles' principled stand against the Euro counter-jihadis allying themselves with white supremacists?

39 Duke6855  11/14/07 8:56:59 am reply quote 6

re: #24 Kirly

I am deeply disappointed by how Charles Johnson has handled this situation. It was dishonest when he presented the Vlaams Belang in Belgium as refusing to denounce the Holocaust. (How the heck he makes this jump is beyond me! Why doesn't F address how it was dishonest to present the VB as refusing to denounce the Holocaust? -Kirls) The truth is that the European Union is directly responsible for much of the resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe, both by importing Muslims and by appeasing Jihad at home and abroad. The EU hardly cares about live Jews, certainly not about dead ones. The Holocaust is shamelessly exploited as an excuse for creating an artificial superstate and above all for imposing restrictions on free speech for everybody who wants to oppose this project. That’s what the VB objected to in this case.

none of that BS addresses the first sentence in this paragraph. I thought this guy was a writer? sounds like a propagandist to me.

kirls

ps. yes, i'm back. for a while. until the next crisis explodes in my face.

Haha I was skimming through his "farewell" and picked up the exact same thing - I make no claims to being a good writer, but I know that when you write a topic sentence in a paragraph, you're supposed to support it instead of changing the subject.

40 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 8:57:24 am reply quote 2

re: #33 Dianna

re:

41 Dianna  11/14/07 8:57:49 am reply quote 5

re:

42 Owl  11/14/07 8:58:15 am reply quote 1
Read it for yourself, and then take a look through the volumes of factual evidence I’ve posted, and ask why Fjordman, Gates of Vienna, and Brussels Journal are spending so much time blowing smoke and personally attacking me, instead of addressing the facts.


My guess is because they are cowards. No reflection on you of course. It's just easier to hurl baseless personal attacks than to admit you're wrong - which is EXACTLY what they'd have to do if they'd open their pride-filled eyes and force themselves to think about the real issues.

liberalism is contagious.

43 Charles  11/14/07 8:58:21 am reply quote 14

re: #30 Terp Mole

I haven't had time (or inclination) to step into this family squabble... but it strikes me as an awful lot of 7-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon "reasoning."

I'm reminded of the Leftist memes surrounding Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.

Vlaams Belang leader Koen Dillen has a photograph of Adolf Hitler with Leon Degrelle, signed by Degrelle personally. Maybe you think that's a trivial "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" connection -- but I definitely do not.

44 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 8:58:34 am reply quote 0

re: #37 doppelganglander

I'm really sorry about this whole mess. Fjordman's links were always interesting and I appreciated hearing about things happening in Europe that I wouldn't have known about otherwise.

I agree. It's truly sad to see how some have lost their way.

45 debutaunt  11/14/07 8:58:51 am reply quote 1

#5 Shug 11/14/07 8:43:00 am reply quote report 0

Fjordman FOADman

fixed

FOLDman re:

46 Edouard  11/14/07 8:59:08 am reply quote 4

Wow. If Fjordman had written "A Day in the Life" rather than McCartney and Lennon, that last chord would have been about two weeks long.

47 Killgore Trout  11/14/07 8:59:24 am reply quote 8

Notice that he's toned down his deportation rhetoric near the end of the article. He's learing to hide his true ambitions.

Fjordman's question to Charles.......


The indigenous population of all European nations is white. By extension, this means that if the natives want to preserve their majority, this means a white majority. So, if we say that we would like to limit all immigration, not just Muslim immigration, to ensure that the natives remain the majority in their own lands, is this to be considered racism? If so, does that mean that we have an obligation to commit cultural and demographic suicide because we are white?


He doesn't really want to deport just a few trouble making Muslims. He wants a White Europe. That means Asian, black and Jewish populations must be controlled. His population control has nothing to do with assimilation or ideology. It's based on skin color and genetics.

48 Dianna  11/14/07 8:59:43 am reply quote 0

re:

50 WriterMom  11/14/07 8:59:57 am reply quote 0

re:

51 Owl  11/14/07 9:00:46 am reply quote 4

Trying to take 1000 years of European anti-semitism and dump it on the Muslim world is a project that will never attract support among the middle ground in either Europe or anywhere else


Right. Cause there ain't a ladder tall enough to get on top of the anti-semitism pile that teh "muslim world" has already amassed.

/* gotta get my GAZE glasses out so they'll be handy. gonna need em soon.

52 ratherdashing  11/14/07 9:00:48 am reply quote -1

re:

53 mad_scientist  11/14/07 9:01:29 am reply quote 0

I am totally staying out of this one.....havent been here all that often in the prior months and have no idea as to what the origins of this little brew-ha-ha are.......

*sits on the bench for a breather until next thread*

54 loppyd  11/14/07 9:01:45 am reply quote 2
Read it for yourself, and then take a look through the volumes of factual evidence I’ve posted, and ask why Fjordman, Gates of Vienna, and Brussels Journal are spending so much time blowing smoke and personally attacking me, instead of addressing the facts.

Sounds very Clintonesque...

55 Dad O' Blondes  11/14/07 9:02:41 am reply quote 2

Off Topic...but interesting.

Government Report: More Military Deaths in Some Years of Peace Than War

More active members of the military died during two years of peacetime in the early 1980s than died during a two-year period of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a government report.

Underscores points made about how effective the US armed forces have become. And of course, each and every death is one too many.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

56 debutaunt  11/14/07 9:02:50 am reply quote 10

re:

57 opnion  11/14/07 9:02:57 am reply quote -4

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

58 Killgore Trout  11/14/07 9:02:59 am reply quote 6

re:

59 WriterMom  11/14/07 9:03:01 am reply quote 2

re:

60 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 9:03:01 am reply quote 0

re: #49 g3n3r1c

61 Dirk Diggler  11/14/07 9:03:44 am reply quote 8

Charles doesn't believe it appropriate to associate the the "War On Terror" with Vlaams Blok, the Swedish Democrats, or other neo-fascist European parties.

Charles has backed up his belief with considerable evidence too. Fjordman won't (or more likely can't) refute any of it.

There's really nothing more to discuss and Fjordman needs to stop making a fool of himself.

62 Poitiers-Lepanto  11/14/07 9:03:46 am reply quote 3

re: #35 Peacekeeper

My take is that some of these people got hoodwinked, but they can't admit to being dupes. So that must mean Charles iswrong, so they attack him.

Some of them, yes, they look like that.
Some others not, and now , finally, they are out of the closet for the fascists they have always been.

And some others have, in my not so humble opinion, played all this to pull LGF into a GIANT PROVOCATION that could have destroyed all LGF's credibility.

Wink wink : CUI BONO ?

LGF made not credible on the national and international stage would be an advantage for...?

You know the answer !

63 MJ  11/14/07 9:03:58 am reply quote 1

" In June 2007 the visiting US President George W. Bush was hailed as a hero by a group of Albanians who also stole his watch. “Sooner rather than later you’ve got to say ‘Enough’s enough — Kosovo is independent,’” Bush told cheering Albanians."


Actually, he's wrong about that. I know it's a minor point, but Bush did not have his watch stolen:

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

64 BingoBunny  11/14/07 9:04:19 am reply quote 0

I haven't made any comments about this Charles.. because I'm not sure yet if the Wests response to Islamoterror will be violent or legalistic, and I don't know if local fighters will be klan lite or nazi when and if violence is the option. But I am sure Europe is in grave danger.

65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  11/14/07 9:04:40 am reply quote 0

re: #55 Dad O' Blondes

Off Topic...but interesting.

Government Report: More Military Deaths in Some Years of Peace Than War

More active members of the military died during two years of peacetime in the early 1980s than died during a two-year period of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a government report.

Underscores points made about how effective the US armed forces have become. And of course, each and every death is one too many.

[Link:

66 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 9:04:55 am reply quote 5

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not the Celtic Cross, it's Odin's Cross. Big difference.

67 Killgore Trout  11/14/07 9:04:56 am reply quote 5

re:

68 WriterMom  11/14/07 9:04:58 am reply quote 2

re:

69 Peacekeeper  11/14/07 9:05:41 am reply quote 2

re: #50 WriterMom

re:

70 Dianna  11/14/07 9:06:19 am reply quote 1

re:

71 Ben Hur  11/14/07 9:06:34 am reply quote 0
72 taxfreekiller  11/14/07 9:06:39 am reply quote 2

So, if Fjordman was a real fighter he would have stayed and fought it out with truth, as truth does win out on lgf's to my knowledge no matter the issue.

Once more Fjordman, we are a small unit behind the lines, on recon and patrol, each person in the unit must stand their watch, hold their position,
and use only well controlled word and political fire at the ones of terror. Use of methods any where like the ones of terror has you just another brand of the same evil thing.

If Fjordman wishes to re-enter the debate, first he must ask Charles, then "We the People" of lgf's, show good faith, and he gets a one year
probation, while on probation he must walk point on tough issues that come to light here in lfg's in his home turf, then the next year he will be required to enter Kos Kids Klunk Klank land and dig out the dirty stuff and
shine his word light on that, then, he will be free to do good things or make a mistake once more.

something like that
and in the mean time he can help find a
rich fat cat sponsor for
[Link: www.airshowsamerica.com...]

73 WriterMom  11/14/07 9:07:03 am reply quote 0

re:

74 Dianna  11/14/07 9:07:11 am reply quote 1

re:

75 Peacekeeper  11/14/07 9:07:25 am reply quote 0

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation


It's not a Celtic cross, its' Odin's cross. Important detail.

76 chinesearithmetic  11/14/07 9:07:31 am reply quote 2

Europeans are always surprised when Americans are on to them.

77 loppyd  11/14/07 9:07:33 am reply quote 1

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's called an Odin's cross.

Use of the Swastika is legally banned in most of Europe hence the contemporary use of the Odin's Cross and the various Teutonic runes by white power terrorists in it's stead.

Linky

78 billhedrick  11/14/07 9:07:35 am reply quote 8

See, I have a real problem, as an American, with the whole idea of a white simon pure country. I understand that my national experience is different that someone from Belgium et al. America has always been a multi-ethnic country (not a multi-cultural one, BIG difference) so I can't continence any call for racial purity. But Europe? Well I can only suggest that the model we have established on this side of the pond, despite the troubles we have had, as one to emulate. As the world develops, there must (in a growing society) be more and more people that don't look like your grandparents. The trick is to integrate them into society. Europe needs to learn how to do that without succumbing to dhimmitude or backlashing into nazism.

79 Owl  11/14/07 9:07:49 am reply quote 1

re:

80 Honorary Yooper  11/14/07 9:07:51 am reply quote 1

re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not a true Celtic cross. It's an Odin's cross, or a gunsight cross (which is what I thought it was when I first saw it).

81 Clio  11/14/07 9:08:03 am reply quote 3

I rarely post on a subject of which I know little or nothing.

Until quite recently, I thought Vlaams Belang was the name of a person.

(Well, it also took me a while to notice that those Browser Page headlines about "Paris Hilton" did not refer to a hotel.)

So I will just say that for whatever it may be worth, I put my confidence in Charles's good judgment.

82 Yank in the EU  11/14/07 9:08:13 am reply quote 6

Recall that Fjordman actually defended the white nationalist ideology as a solution to the Islamization of Europe.

(If the precise references would be sought, search for his comments in the first few threads about the SD and the VB.)

83 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 9:08:19 am reply quote 1

re: #71 Ben Hur

84 wahabicorridor  11/14/07 9:08:49 am reply quote 8

re:

85 MJ  11/14/07 9:08:51 am reply quote 5

"I also dislike how LGF uses the late Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn to justify their views. As Bruce Bawer has demonstrated in his book While Europe Slept, Fortuyn was virtually executed by the left-wing media and the Eurabian political establishment for being a “racist, Fascist and Nazi.” Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who lives with constant death threats from Muslims, claims that a climate of “hate and aggression” has been created in which someone might think that “illegal means are justified to stop me and my people.” Left-wing columnists dismiss him as “someone outside of the law, as the leader of a Fascist party, that is anti-democratic and similar in some respects to the Nazi’s,” he said. "

He's using Pim Fortuyn and Bruce Bawer to support his point of view re: the VB?

86 Kirly  11/14/07 9:09:18 am reply quote 2

you know, i haven't been able to keep up with all this but it's already over for me.

Fjordman - what is wrong with you? they're nazis, you fool!

87 Owl  11/14/07 9:09:19 am reply quote 0
cause now a rainbow sticker on a car means your gay and a "rebel flag" in your truck makes you a racist

I forgot the /sarc tag, cause neither of these is necessarily true.....

88 Thanos  11/14/07 9:09:23 am reply quote 1

Think Steve Martin

"This lamp... it's all I need.....
oh, and this white power symbol, sniff...yeah that's all I need."

89 DanThePainter  11/14/07 9:09:24 am reply quote 2

Thanks for posting this Charles. I was going to in the next open thread, and was wondering if I'd get grief for doing so.
I understand that the Islamists are a greater threat than the neo-Nazis at this point, and so get the GoV and Fjordman position.
But I fear that this drift of Europe to Nazism will lead to another Reich. So in that way I grok your argument.
Thanks again!

90 Golem Akbar  11/14/07 9:09:47 am reply quote 4

I am not worried about a splintering of the anti-Islamofascist groups around the world. It was inevitable that the neo-Nazi/White Power groups would try to ally themselves, but the real pro-democracy, anti-fascist folks would not want their friendship. I say "Way to go , Charles," in calling it right.

I predict someday soon other so-called liberal groups, who are really targets of Islamofascism, will join the pro-democracy movement. It really is a war between western civilization versus fascism. I can't imagine why femminists and gays, just to name two groups, haven't started to loudly denounce Islamofascists, yet.

91 storagemanager  11/14/07 9:10:15 am reply quote 0

Charles was right.....I guess Pam would these people fighters of the jihad.................

BUDAPEST(AFP)---A Hungarian far-right group recalling the country’s pro-Nazi regime during World War II, inducted 600 new members Sunday in a military-style ceremony amid protests from the government and Jewish groups.

Members of Magyar Garda, or Hungarian Guard, attended the event in Heroes’ Square in Budapest wearing white shirts and black uniforms emblazoned with red and white stripes, a flag associated since World War II with Hungary’s Nazi-allied Arrow Cross regime

Think about the sign...........

The black-and-white signs, some showing Hungarian Nazi leaders during the war raising their hands in a "Heil Hitler" salute, read: "History repeats itself. You can still turn back."

[Link: www.ejpress.org...]

92 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 9:11:03 am reply quote 0

re: #79 Owl

re:

93 konservo  11/14/07 9:11:06 am reply quote 6

Jeez... Fjordman sure put a lot of effort into this essay, I only wish he had focused on quality instead of quantity. He reminds me of 'Christine' at the "Center for Vigilante Freedom," heavy on the words but light on content.

94 Honorary Yooper  11/14/07 9:11:07 am reply quote 4

re: #82 Yank in the EU

Recall that Fjordman actually defended the white nationalist ideology as a solution to the Islamization of Europe.

(If the precise references would be sought, search for his comments in the first few threads about the SD and the VB.)

Yes, and in re-reading his essays, he is pretty consistant about deporting all muslims, regardless of their jihadist leanings.

95 opnion  11/14/07 9:11:11 am reply quote 1

re: #66 Ward Cleaver

re: #57 opnion


Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not the Celtic Cross, it's Odin's Cross. Big difference.


If you google Odin's Cross you get an ADL link which describes the Celtic Cross also known as 'Odin's Cross" as a white supremacist symbol first used by the KKK.
So I guess I am still confused as to why the symbol was taken by these people at all.

96 Sponge  11/14/07 9:11:28 am reply quote -2

It seems to me that the guy is pretty insignificant and really doesn't warrant a whole thread.

Maybe just a rotating title that expounds upon his douchebaggedness.

97 Killgore Trout  11/14/07 9:11:48 am reply quote 4

re:

98 Peacekeeper  11/14/07 9:12:26 am reply quote 4

Once you sin in pride it takes you on a journey to strange places.

99 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 9:12:55 am reply quote 3

re: #86 Kirly

you know, i haven't been able to keep up with all this but it's already over for me.

Fjordman - what is wrong with you? they're nazis, you fool!

And it's double bad, because the VB and SD numbers are small, and the legitimization they get from the counter-jihadi affiliation can only increase their numbers. Not good.

100 threecoloursblue  11/14/07 9:13:13 am reply quote 0

re:

101 Ringo the Gringo  11/14/07 9:13:20 am reply quote 9

I've never seen a photograph of fjordman but I always pictured him like this.....only without the smile.

I've read most of his essays through the past few years and learned much from him, but his complete lack of any discernible sense of humor and his inability to understand that shared values are what makes a society cohesive, not shared ethnicity, always made me weary of him.

He's a smart guy and I wish him the best....I also hope he gains some wisdom because Europe is going to need wisdom more than anything else in the coming decade.

102 Thanos  11/14/07 9:13:57 am reply quote 0

re: #95 opnion

re: #66 Ward Cleaver


re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not the Celtic Cross, it's Odin's Cross. Big difference.

If you google Odin's Cross you get an ADL link which describes the Celtic Cross also known as 'Odin's Cross" as a white supremacist symbol first used by the KKK.
So I guess I am still confused as to why the symbol was taken by these people at all.

Read the link to Babba's site above titled "Nazis Rune Everything, it will give you some history and etymology for the adaptation of the runes by white power groups.

103 Peacekeeper  11/14/07 9:13:57 am reply quote -1

Opinion I assume you're here to confuse the issue? Got to Hell.

104 Gordon Marock  11/14/07 9:13:58 am reply quote 1

We should work toward building bridges over the Fjords that divide us.


Boy, wasn't that clever.

105 wahabicorridor  11/14/07 9:14:25 am reply quote 1

re: #58 Killgore Trout

re:

106 Former Belgian  11/14/07 9:14:34 am reply quote 3

re: #43 Charles

re: #30 Terp Mole

I haven't had time (or inclination) to step into this family squabble... but it strikes me as an awful lot of 7-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon "reasoning."

I'm reminded of the Leftist memes surrounding Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein.

Vlaams Belang leader Koen Dillen has a photograph of Adolf Hitler with Leon Degrelle, signed by Degrelle personally. Maybe you think that's a trivial "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" connection -- but I definitely do not.

Point of detail: Koen Dillen is a leading VB-er (quite damning enough) but is not the party leader. He is the son of founding party leader Karel Dillen (recently deceased).

107 Edouard  11/14/07 9:14:43 am reply quote 4

Fjordman is in denial about the utter lack of popular political viability, in the 21st century, of any alliance that is shot-through with the white-supremacist tumor.

It really is too bad that he of all people is so far into his denial that he will do no more than pay lip service to rooting out and expelling this deplorable white-power malignancy from his movement, in effect adopting and willingly accepting a cancer-ridden organism as his own.

108 Ward Cleaver  11/14/07 9:14:45 am reply quote 0

re: #95 opnion

re: #66 Ward Cleaver


re: #57 opnion

Could somebody tell me how the Celtic cross got taken over as a symbol for White Supremacy.
It doesn't make sense to me. I just do not see any correlation

It's not the Celtic Cross, it's Odin's Cross. Big difference.

If you google Odin's Cross you get an ADL link which describes the Celtic Cross also known as 'Odin's Cross" as a white supremacist symbol first used by the KKK.
So I guess I am still confused as to why the symbol was taken by these people at all.

The ADL needs to correct their Web page. The Celtic Cross is a regular cross with a circle over it, while the Odin's Cross is more like the cross-hairs in a rifle scope.

109 marwan's daughter  11/14/07 9:15:48 am reply quote 1

"The illustrious Pamela". Well I don't need to ask which side he's taken.

110 Charles  11/14/07 9:16:19 am reply quote 18