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US 'Engaging' Muslim Brotherhood

Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 10:57:18 am PST

It’s no longer a surprise, since we’ve been posting about the US government’s outreach to the global jihad group Muslim Brotherhood (the Ikhwan), but this new report is even more disturbing since it’s clear that high-level decisions have been made that directly contravene previous policy: U.S. engages Muslim Brotherhood despite Rice.

CAIRO — The United States has resumed contacts with Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood despite Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s 2005 commitment not to “engage” with the banned group — a move that could strain relations with President Hosni Mubarak’s government.

U.S. Embassy officials said they are acting in conformity with a worldwide policy of dealing with political parties that are represented in their national parliaments. Muslim Brotherhood members can only run for Egypt’s parliament as independents, and U.S. officials say they have met them only in that capacity.

“Our rare contacts with the nominally independent members of parliament have occurred only in the full light of day, with many other Egyptians present, including members from the ruling National Democratic Party,” said Francis J. Ricciardone, the U.S. ambassador to Egypt.

Asked whether the dealings were approved by Miss Rice, who ruled out such contacts in June 2005, Mr. Ricciardone said: “Of course, we report fully to Washington on these contacts.”

For more information on the Muslim Brotherhood, and to illustrate why this program of “engagement” is incredibly shortsighted and wrongheaded, here’s a PDF from the NEFA Foundation.

(Hat tip: SeafoodGumbo.)

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120 comments

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1 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 10:59:07am

To what end? This is madness.

2 Owl  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 10:59:08am

OMG I got all excited when I saw the title. then I realize we were talking about collaboration, not ...oh never mind.

So when do we get our free islamotarps from the guvment.

3 newsjunkie_ky  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:00:01am

State Department is an enemy of the State.

4 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:01:47am
The Muslim Brotherhood is not on the U.S. list of foreign terrorist organizations, which includes Palestinian Hamas and Lebanon's Hezbollah — both represented in their respective parliaments.

Maybe we should do something about that, say like, put them on the list.

5 Macker  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:02:36am

Who all remembers what Pat Robertson said about Foggy Bottom? While I would not go that route, there has to be a purging of the State Dept. If there isn't, we already know where this is going.

6 WriterMom  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:02:42am
7 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:03:18am
8 chinesearithmetic  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:03:29am

Jaw jaw not better than war war when it's glass glass

9 Pyrocles  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:03:48am

Man...this REPUBLICAN government is sooo freakin' clueless. Imagine if the Democrats get in charge?! They'd probably one-up the Bush Administration by promoting a Muslim Brotherhood "moderate" to Secretary of State in an ignorant show of "diversity".

10 JCM  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:04:11am

Outreach = slitting our own throats.

11 Spenser (with an S)  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:04:21am

re: #4 Sharmuta


The Muslim Brotherhood is not on the U.S. list of foreign terrorist organizations, which includes Palestinian Hamas and Lebanon's Hezbollah — both represented in their respective parliaments.

Maybe we should do something about that, say like, put them on the list.

Yeah, like "What can we do? They're not on the list" Shrug.

12 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:04:29am

When's the wedding? Are they registered anywhere?

13 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:05:43am

The only way they should be "engaged" is with machine gun fire and daisy cutters.

14 insanity police  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:06:10am

Barf.

15 rappmandu  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:06:17am

So, the U.S. only deals with al-Qaeda politicos in their capacity as "independents?" Don't want to violate policy, y'know.

/

16 newsjunkie_ky  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:06:29am

The State Department needs to be cleaned out NOW. But don't know how. Maybe we need term limits for State employees.

17 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:06:31am

The Brotherhood is the blood root from which a whole bunch of evil twisted branches of Islamic terrorism have spawned from.

That includes al Qaeda.

Kill the root and you might have a shot at eliminating the threat posed by the rest. Instead, we're into appeasement and negotiation. When will diplomats and politicians learn that you will not get an ideologue to change his worldview on something as basic as which religious outcome they seek.

18 Dirk Diggler  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:06:36am
Asked whether the dealings were approved by Miss Rice, who ruled out such contacts in June 2005, Mr. Ricciardone said: “Of course, we report fully to Washington on these contacts.”

(Sighs) Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Condoleeza Rice has been a total flop over at the State Department. GWB is a lousy judge of competency.

19 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:06:40am

We need President Rudy NOW!

20 Owl  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:06:40am

re: #9 Pyrocles

Man...this REPUBLICAN government is sooo freakin' clueless. Imagine if the Democrats get in charge?! They'd probably one-up the Bush Administration by promoting a Muslim Brotherhood "moderate" to Secretary of State in an ignorant show of "diversity".


President Hillary: " Today is a great day for America. Today, I officially declare " Hug a Facist Day!" Thanks to our friends in the Muslim Brotherhood, Saudi Arabia and Markos ( * winks at Kos), we're well on our way to understanding, justice, and prosperity. "

" Oh, and please turn in your guns by next Tuesday. Thanks."

21 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:06:50am

"You're either with us, or you're negotiating with us."

- george w bush

22 nolocon  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:07:35am

The y're scheduled to attend Condi Rice's next International Outreach Summit along with Hamas, the Klan, Aryan Nation and Jews-for-Ron Paul.

23 astronmr20  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:07:54am

I'd like to engage them, alright.

24 Nevergiveup  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:08:02am

I would kinda like to know if this came from:
A) The executive branch: The President
B) The State department in DC
C) The Embassy in Cairo

25 gunner  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:08:17am

can any one explain to me why the state department alway seems to be working for everyone of our enemies, especially when its known the want to cut off heads and dance on our collective graves?


there'is one place in the government than definitely needs a house cleaning.

i agree, enemies of their own state!

26 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:08:45am
27 pegcity  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:08:58am

Did the State department Engage with Hirohito during world war 2 or the SS?

28 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:09:24am

re: #12 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

When's the wedding? Are they registered anywhere?

At FoolsRUs and Beat, Bomb & Behead.

29 Owl  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:09:37am

You know, now i know how the Dixie Twits felt.


it pains me to say that, but I'm as ashamed as they probably were - no, probably more at this point. Thanks Condi. thanks bush. i don't know what the hell happened up there, but you've caused me to agree with the liberals on one thing, at least - the faster you get out of power, the better off we are.

Assuming the incoming power isn't a liberal.........

30 Nevergiveup  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:10:00am

re: #27 pegcity

Did the State department Engage with Hirohito during world war 2 or the SS?

That depends on your definition of "during"!

31 tfc3rid  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:10:44am

the only way we should be engaging the Muslim Brotherhood is by a Cruise Missile...

32 JCM  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:10:47am

One hopes this "outreach" is a ploy. Bring the enemy with in arms reach, reach out a friendly hand and place it on their shoulder, then when they relax plunge the dagger into their heart. And whisper in their ear, "you didn't think we are that stupid did you?"

/not holding breath

33 uptight  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:10:52am

Well, according to London's mayor, Red Ken Livingstone, anyone who's critical of the Muslim Brotherhood is just like a 19th Century antisemite:

[Link: hurryupharry.bloghouse.net...]

(source: answer to Nick Cohen in press conference yesterday)

34 rappmandu  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:11:19am

re: #12 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

I hear there's no pre-nup.

/

35 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:11:37am

re: #11 Spenser (with an S)

Yeah, like "What can we do? They're not on the list" Shrug.

Indeed. Adding them to the list? That's so easy, it can't possibly work.

36 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:11:52am

OT:

Newsweek has hired another person to counter Markos's point of view...

Karl Rove's New Gig

:O)

37 Owl  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:12:02am

re: #32 JCM

One hopes this "outreach" is a ploy. Bring the enemy with in arms reach, reach out a friendly hand and place it on their shoulder, then when they relax plunge the dagger into their heart. And whisper in their ear, "you didn't think we are that stupid did you?"

/not holding breath


Now THAT would make a great movie. I'd pay $8.50 to see that.
Hollywood arer you out there? ( duh. of course you are - you should get out of your jammies and take a shower, you smell horrible. Oh you did take a shower. my bad. )

38 gibsonz  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:12:07am

What...no aid package yet, Hillary will be sure to charge Bush as a racist "hate monger" for not helping these poor, deprived, misunderstood people who only want to kill help others. Maybe she will propose a "drivers license by mail" for these murderous thugs Muslim moderates!

39 newsjunkie_ky  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:12:19am

re: #24 Nevergiveup

I would kinda like to know if this came from:
A) The executive branch: The President
B) The State department in DC
C) The Embassy in Cairo


My guess is C.
A former lefty friend's father (a commie from the Ukraine) is very high in the State Department and travels to every embassy. State is full of them.

40 Owl  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:13:32am

Oh no....wait a minute here. Hillary said now that she is (again) AGAINST drivers lic. for illegals.


until maybe..I dunno....this afternoonish.

41 uptight  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:13:53am

re: #33 uptight

Well, according to London's mayor, Red Ken Livingstone, anyone who's critical of the Muslim Brotherhood is just like a 19th Century antisemite:

[Link: hurryupharry.bloghouse.net...]

(source: answer to Nick Cohen in press conference yesterday)

other link - Mayoral Snow Job

42 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:14:18am

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

Newsweek has hired another person to counter Markos's point of view...

Karl Rove's New Gig

:O)

Rove, you magnificent bastard!

43 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:14:38am

World .....meet toilet.........(sounds of flushing)

44 Nevergiveup  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:14:54am

re: #39 newsjunkie_ky

re: #24 Nevergiveup

I would kinda like to know if this came from:
A) The executive branch: The President
B) The State department in DC
C) The Embassy in Cairo


My guess is C.
A former lefty friend's father (a commie from the Ukraine) is very high in the State Department and travels to every embassy. State is full of them.

That would be my guess also. Think the Embassy got a strongly worded letter from Foggy Bottom?

45 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:15:17am

re: #37 Owl

re: #32 JCM


One hopes this "outreach" is a ploy. Bring the enemy with in arms reach, reach out a friendly hand and place it on their shoulder, then when they relax plunge the dagger into their heart. And whisper in their ear, "you didn't think we are that stupid did you?"

/not holding breath


Now THAT would make a great movie. I'd pay $8.50 to see that.
Hollywood arer you out there? ( duh. of course you are - you should get out of your jammies and take a shower, you smell horrible. Oh you did take a shower. my bad. )

No, but they're taking a bath. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

46 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:15:39am

BTW, how did this thread end up on the subject of shillery so quickly?

47 rappmandu  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:15:50am

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

Karl better work the words "Screw them" into his comments.

48 nolocon  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:16:08am

re: #29 Owl

You know, now i know how the Dixie Twits felt.
it pains me to say that, but I'm as ashamed as they probably were - no, probably more at this point. Thanks Condi. thanks bush. i don't know what the hell happened up there, but you've caused me to agree with the liberals on one thing, at least - the faster you get out of power, the better off we are.
Assuming the incoming power isn't a liberal.........


Bush is a Country Club Republican with Hollywood Democrat judgment.

49 bulwrk  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:16:21am

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

well he'll crush the king of kozland

50 The Other Les  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:16:55am

re: #1 MandyManners

To what end? This is madness.

MADNESS? THIS! IS! WASHINGTON!"

51 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:17:17am

re: #49 bulwrk

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

well he'll crush the king of kozland

Like the cockroach that he is.

hehehehehe

52 Nevergiveup  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:17:29am

re: #49 bulwrk

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

well he'll crush the king of kozland

I doubt it---not after the Newsweek editors get done with it!

53 doriangrey  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:17:31am

The only way the US government should be engaging the Muslim Brotherhood is with heavy Artillery and high altitude bombing runs.

54 JCM  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:17:40am

re: #42 Ward Cleaver

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

Newsweek has hired another person to counter Markos's point of view...

Karl Rove's New Gig

:O)

Rove, you magnificent bastard!

Would I like to be in the coffee room when Karl and Markos meet......

55 blutonazi98  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:17:41am

i am making a election prediction;

Ron Paul is getting set up to be the Ross Peroit of 2008. after he drops out of the republican primary's he will run as an independent and try to steal enough republican votes to help elect a certain unelectable democrat.

just a theory i may be wrong (or bat-@#$& crazy)

/c'mon who doesn't like a conspiracy?

56 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:18:16am

re: #50 The Other Les

re: #1 MandyManners


To what end? This is madness.

MADNESS? THIS! IS! WASHINGTON!"

I can only pray that they know what they're doing.

57 alegrias  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:18:59am

John Bolton in an interview in the DC Examiner this week said going to Yale was good preparation for working with the lefties at the State Department.

State Department folks are mainly civil servants are they not? I wouldn't be surprised if they all wore the union label--because they sure don't go along with the new management willingly.

Too bad President Bush didn't put John Bolton in charge of this effort with "carte blanche" to kick heiny & take names.

58 Nevergiveup  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:19:19am

re: #56 MandyManners

re: #50 The Other Les

re: #1 MandyManners


To what end? This is madness.


MADNESS? THIS! IS! WASHINGTON!"

I can only pray that they know what they're doing.

I hope your prays are stronger than mine and that you have a direct line to G-D!

59 The Other Les  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:19:30am

re: #55 blutonazi98

i am making a election prediction;

Ron Paul is getting set up to be the Ross Peroit of 2008. after he drops out of the republican primary's he will run as an independent and try to steal enough republican votes to help elect a certain unelectable democrat.

just a theory i may be wrong (or bat-@#$& crazy)

/c'mon who doesn't like a conspiracy?

Have the Libertarians nominated someone yet? They used to do it about a year in advance in order to meet the various ballot access rules.

60 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:19:31am
61 blutonazi98  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:19:33am

re: #55 blutonazi98

sorry wrong thread; my bad!

62 Owl  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:19:44am

re: #46 A Kiwi Infidel


I did it. Sorry. I just thought that was the next logical step. . . you know...the creation of a national day of " understanding". etc. etc. etc.

63 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:19:45am

re: #54 JCM

re: #42 Ward Cleaver


re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

Newsweek has hired another person to counter Markos's point of view...

Karl Rove's New Gig

:O)


Rove, you magnificent bastard!

Would I like to be in the coffee room when Karl and Markos meet......

I'll bet Kos develops a nervous twitch. Or loses bladder control.

Heh.

64 newsjunkie_ky  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:20:05am

re: #40 Owl

Oh no....wait a minute here. Hillary said now that she is (again) AGAINST drivers lic. for illegals.


until maybe..I dunno....this afternoonish.


She was for them before she was against them.

65 gunner  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:20:06am

50 The Other Les

re: #1 MandyManners

To what end? This is madness.

MADNESS? THIS! IS! WASHINGTON!"


does that mean they will fight in the shade of the "money tree"?

66 Eowyn2  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:20:19am

re: #17 lawhawk

The Brotherhood is the blood root from which a whole bunch of evil twisted branches of Islamic terrorism have spawned from.

That includes al Qaeda.

Kill the root and you might have a shot at eliminating the threat posed by the rest. Instead, we're into appeasement and negotiation. When will diplomats and politicians learn that you will not get an ideologue to change his worldview on something as basic as which religious outcome they seek.

When half of th ME is glass.

67 nolocon  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:20:21am

re: #54 JCM

Would I like to be in the coffee room when Karl and Markos meet......

Did you happen to watch the Larry Holmes - Tex Cobb heavyweight match back in the 1980s?

68 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:21:27am

re: #56 MandyManners

re: #50 The Other Les


re: #1 MandyManners

To what end? This is madness.

MADNESS? THIS! IS! WASHINGTON!"

I can only pray that they know what they're doing.

You can pray, but the Word tells us that there will be madness in the last days, sorry.

69 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:21:39am
70 gunner  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:22:30am

so basically the state department is a place for:

those who can't do, those who can't teach, those who take their toys back, basically anything with the ability to see right from wrong.

71 Orbit Rain  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:22:37am

oh...well...I suppose talking to the people that have guns and followers make sense when things like:

EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT tortures blogger in prison:


...is going on...who wants to help reshape the mideast? It's funny how Egypt being such a colossal fuck-up can put Kurdistan back in play...Anyway...my message to the brotherhood is that we probably don't have the resources to track you all down, destroy all your property, all while trying not to have too much collateral damage...but then, whoever's plotting at taking over the world is likely to suffer a *few* repercussions...

blah blah blah

I dunno

72 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:22:40am

re: #67 nolocon

re: #54 JCM


Would I like to be in the coffee room when Karl and Markos meet......

Did you happen to watch the Larry Holmes - Tex Cobb heavyweight match back in the 1980s?

I liked Randall "Tex" Cobb in Fletch:

"Don't wear so much eye makeup. It makes you look cheap."

- chevy chase

73 Eowyn2  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:22:50am

re: #37 Owl

re: #32 JCM


One hopes this "outreach" is a ploy. Bring the enemy with in arms reach, reach out a friendly hand and place it on their shoulder, then when they relax plunge the dagger into their heart. And whisper in their ear, "you didn't think we are that stupid did you?"

/not holding breath


Now THAT would make a great movie. I'd pay $8.50 to see that.
Hollywood arer you out there? ( duh. of course you are - you should get out of your jammies and take a shower, you smell horrible. Oh you did take a shower. my bad. )

Leading part: Clint Eastwood: This is an arkansas toothpick, makes that little dagger of yours seem pathetic doesnt it punk. Oh you brought your friends, you've made my day.

Damn we need some real men looking men in hollywood; the only ones I can think of come from Australia.

74 alegrias  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:23:00am

re: #48 nolocon

re: #29 Owl


You know, now i know how the Dixie Twits felt.
it pains me to say that, but I'm as ashamed as they probably were - no, probably more at this point. Thanks Condi. thanks bush. i don't know what the hell happened up there, but you've caused me to agree with the liberals on one thing, at least - the faster you get out of power, the better off we are.
Assuming the incoming power isn't a liberal.........

Bush is a Country Club Republican with Hollywood Democrat judgment.

* * *
Sorry but it is McCain who is the country club repub (whose mother parties with State Department folks, belongs to the Chevy Chase & Cosmos Clubs) and who hangs out with Warren Beatty and has bit parts in movies like "The Wedding Crasher."--and whose mother grew up in Beverly Hills, CA.

75 blutonazi98  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:23:03am

re: #67 nolocon

re: #54 JCM


Would I like to be in the coffee room when Karl and Markos meet......

Did you happen to watch the Larry Holmes - Tex Cobb heavyweight match back in the 1980s?


nice!
the only fight i have ever seen that you could say it was one of best and one of the worst fights ever!

76 tfc3rid  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:23:16am

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe they will do a cute little 'Point-Counterpoint' like Dan Ackroyd and Jane Curtin back on SNL in the 70's....

77 Eowyn2  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:24:20am

re: #69 taxfreekiller

Ron Paul has no, zero grass roots Republican support, its all the loon libertarians and the kos kids who kluk etal.

Sure he does, and hillary is gonna garner 25% if the conservative females.

Riiiiiiggggghhhhht

78 loppyd  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:25:21am

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

Newsweek has hired another person to counter Markos's point of view...

Karl Rove's New Gig

:O)

From your link - this is rich.

The move is not likely to prove popular among liberals who believe the mainstream media have been too soft on the Bush administration.

Mmmkay.

79 Eowyn2  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:25:42am

re: #76 tfc3rid

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe they will do a cute little 'Point-Counterpoint' count-pointercount like Dan Ackroyd and Jane Curtin back on SNL in the 70's....

tfc3rid You ignorant slut

80 Eowyn2  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:26:59am

OT - again, anyone have a clue on a reliable book(s) regarding Sharia Law.

81 The Other Les  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:27:44am

re: #65 gunner

50 The Other Les

re: #1 MandyManners

To what end? This is madness.

MADNESS? THIS! IS! WASHINGTON!"


does that mean they will fight in the shade of the "money tree"?

Will they even fight?

82 tfc3rid  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:28:00am

re: #79 Eowyn2

re: #76 tfc3rid


re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe they will do a cute little 'Point-Counterpoint' count-pointercount like Dan Ackroyd and Jane Curtin back on SNL in the 70's....


tfc3rid You ignorant slut


Good one!

83 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:28:27am

OT:
Two more stories to ponder:

Abbas wants to "bring down" Hamas in Gaza. Would that be from the highest rooftops? Seems Hamas has a thing with heights - though it's usually in the course of throwing Fatah from them.

Meanwhile, Taliban murder a boy for teaching English.

84 loppyd  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:29:34am

OT:

I may just have to watch the dem debate tonight...

Blitzer on Shrillary:

Blitzer, who said he had not been directly contacted by the Clinton campaign, called the New York Democrat “a sophisticated, strong politician.” But he also issued his own veiled warning.

“If she can’t handle the heat during a Democratic contest, wait until the Republicans really start going after her,” he told TV Newser. “If she’s the nominee.”

85 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:29:38am
86 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:30:13am
87 tfc3rid  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:30:16am

re: #84 loppyd

Ooooooooh.... Cat fight!

88 Orde  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:31:26am

re: #25 gunner

can any one explain to me why the state department alway seems to be working for everyone of our enemies, especially when its known the want to cut off heads and dance on our collective graves?

Total speculation here, but maybe some part of it is the kind of person that gets drawn into that career path from college when they're idealistic and kumbayah-oriented yet not so familiar with the world experientially, but just by their university departments, which in turn have their influences. Then straight from college they go to the JFK School of Government, or a career in academia or what have you, and before you know it are molded before actually having seen the world for themselves, and have become wonks. Then once in, how hard is it in terms of harming one's own advancement to go against the flow anyway?

89 gunner  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:32:20am

81 The Other Les

i doubt they even know how to. most would willingly bare their throats to the dagger. it's a sad commentary on the place when they won't even put the ideals of their own country before others.

90 bulwrk  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:32:32am
91 loppyd  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:32:51am

re: #87 tfc3rid

re: #84 loppyd

Ooooooooh.... Cat fight!

More like a dog fight if you ask me.

92 Eowyn2  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:33:33am

re: #85 taxfreekiller

Just for a laugh.

Tonight, first question by little blister boy::

"Ms Klinkston" if someone in our gathering tonight stood up and called you a "no good ignorant slut bitch" , how would you counter this opinion of you.?"

just for fun, not a real question, just the SNL thingey

thats why you keep a little onion juice on the tip of your finger,
just rub and cry.

93 Eowyn2  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:33:43am

re: #90 bulwrk

Santas ho ho ho offensive to women


only to hos

94 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:34:01am

Some goals of the Project:

Networking and coordinating actions between likeminded Islamist organizations;

Avoiding open alliances with known terrorist organizations and individuals to maintain the appearance of “moderation”;

Infiltrating and taking over existing Muslim organizations to realign them towards the Muslim Brotherhood’s collective goals;

Using deception to mask the intended goals of Islamist actions, as long as it doesn’t conflict with shari’a law;

Avoiding social conflicts with Westerners locally, nationally or globally, that might damage the long-term ability to expand the Islamist powerbase in the West or provoke a lash back against Muslims;

Establishing financial networks to fund the work of conversion of the West, including the support of full-time administrators and workers;

Conducting surveillance, obtaining data, and establishing collection and data storage capabilities;

Putting into place a watchdog system for monitoring Western media to warn Muslims of “international plots fomented against them”;

Cultivating an Islamist intellectual community, including the establishment of think-tanks and advocacy groups, and publishing “academic” studies, to legitimize Islamist positions and to chronicle the history of Islamist movements;

Developing a comprehensive 100-year plan to advance Islamist ideology throughout the world;

Balancing international objectives with local flexibility;

Building extensive social networks of schools, hospitals and charitable organizations dedicated to Islamist ideals so that contact with the movement for Muslims in the West is constant;

95 Nevergiveup  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:34:16am

re: #88 Orde

re: #25 gunner

can any one explain to me why the state department alway seems to be working for everyone of our enemies, especially when its known the want to cut off heads and dance on our collective graves?

Total speculation here, but maybe some part of it is the kind of person that gets drawn into that career path from college when they're idealistic and kumbayah-oriented yet not so familiar with the world experientially, but just by their university departments, which in turn have their influences. Then straight from college they go to the JFK School of Government, or a career in academia or what have you, and before you know it are molded before actually having seen the world for themselves, and have become wonks. Then once in, how hard is it in terms of harming one's own advancement to go against the flow anyway?

That is possible, but I am more inclined to think it has to do with the "old boys network". I bet many of the present day Cowards who will not serve in Iraq had both fathers and grandfathers who worked there!

96 SeafoodGumbo  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:34:28am

Thanks for the hat tip, Charles! ;^}

This now makes (at least) three Muslim countries (if you include the Palis) where Bush is supporting or legitimizing the Islamists/terrorists:

Egypt -- Muslim Brotherhood
Palestinian territories - Fatah
Pakistan -- urging democracy which would lead to a Taliban victory

(I won't even mention N. Korea.)

/drive-by post, back to work

97 newsjunkie_ky  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:34:37am

OMG!
I've not heard this before. Rush is doing an update on barney frank and playing "My Boy Lollipop". frank endorses clinton to advance gay rights.

98 alegrias  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:36:08am

If enough lizards hung together and engaged each other long enough to fight together, we could win both these fights (against islamists & defeatist phony 'progressives'/open borders folks.)

Last night on the DC Metro I picked up and read the WashingtonPost's full size freebie El Tiemp Latino paper which is wholly devoted to open borders and all the benefits of US citizenship for whoever walks into the US. What an open playbook for the Left's vision from the good folks at WashingtonPost/Newsweek Corp.

www.eltiempolatino.com

99 Orde  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:36:47am

re: #53 doriangrey

The only way the US government should be engaging the Muslim Brotherhood is with heavy Artillery and high altitude bombing runs.

That'd take out NYC, DC, Detroit, Boston, Cleveland, Indianapolis, and Houston according to this map.

100 gunner  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:37:22am

88 Orde

i have to agree with the career advancement paths. to many go along with the status quo and they know what happens to anyone who goes against the group think that inhabits the place. like being sent to work in iraq.........plus its to easy to fit in and know that you'll never have to make tough decisions.

101 Owl  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:40:20am

re: #80 Eowyn2

OT - again, anyone have a clue on a reliable book(s) regarding Sharia Law.


I don't. sorry. Maybe Charles knows something? Or Wrath?

102 Owl  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:40:59am

re: #91 loppyd

re: #87 tfc3rid


re: #84 loppyd

Ooooooooh.... Cat fight!


More like a dog fight if you ask me.


Did someone say Michael Vick? No.
oh . ok.

103 alegrias  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:41:29am

re: #95 Nevergiveup

re: #88 Orde


re: #25 gunner

can any one explain to me why the state department alway seems to be working for everyone of our enemies, especially when its known the want to cut off heads and dance on our collective graves?

Total speculation here, but maybe some part of it is the kind of person that gets drawn into that career path from college when they're idealistic and kumbayah-oriented yet not so familiar with the world experientially, but just by their university departments, which in turn have their influences. Then straight from college they go to the JFK School of Government, or a career in academia or what have you, and before you know it are molded before actually having seen the world for themselves, and have become wonks. Then once in, how hard is it in terms of harming one's own advancement to go against the flow anyway?

That is possible, but I am more inclined to think it has to do with the "old boys network". I bet many of the present day Cowards who will not serve in Iraq had both fathers and grandfathers who worked there!


* * *
Case in point, Robert Kaiser, big cheese/editor at the WashingtonPost; his elderly dad was an Ambassador Kaiser (probably to such anti-US places as Fwance); born of socialist/communists in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Died in the wool and Bush-haters too.

104 tfc3rid  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:42:03am

re: #102 Owl

You had to go there... We've got to leave poor Mike Vick alone!

/sarc

105 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:46:30am

re: #97 newsjunkie_ky

OMG!
I've not heard this before. Rush is doing an update on barney frank and playing "My Boy Lollipop". frank endorses clinton to advance gay rights.

Talk show host David Gold used to play that years ago when he did bits about Frank.

106 jcm  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:46:36am

re: #95 Nevergiveup

re: #88 Orde

re: #25 gunner

can any one explain to me why the state department alway seems to be working for everyone of our enemies, especially when its known the want to cut off heads and dance on our collective graves?

Total speculation here, but maybe some part of it is the kind of person that gets drawn into that career path from college when they're idealistic and kumbayah-oriented yet not so familiar with the world experientially, but just by their university departments, which in turn have their influences. Then straight from college they go to the JFK School of Government, or a career in academia or what have you, and before you know it are molded before actually having seen the world for themselves, and have become wonks. Then once in, how hard is it in terms of harming one's own advancement to go against the flow anyway?

That is possible, but I am more inclined to think it has to do with the "old boys network". I bet many of the present day Cowards who will not serve in Iraq had both fathers and grandfathers who worked there!

The current culture of the State Dept. goes back to Roosevelts' Cordell Hull. The State Dept. was given a copy of the Wansee Protocols and dismissed them. It's been down hill every since. Part of Rice's problem is the entrenched culture is so pervasive.

107 Iron Fist  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:50:44am

re: #92 Eowyn2,

The thought of the Hildabeast666 as President is enough to make me cry.

108 Cygnus  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 12:15:06pm

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

Newsweek has hired another person to counter Markos's point of view...

Karl Rove's New Gig

:O)

Maybe they should have a 'Point-Counterpoint' feature with these two. What a total cage match that would be!

#12 - Where's the honeymoon going to be? Yuck.

109 Cygnus  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 12:19:23pm

re: #93 Eowyn2

re: #90 bulwrk

Santas ho ho ho offensive to women


only to hos

Or Ho-Ho cakes.

110 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 12:29:52pm

re: #109 Cygnus

re: #93 Eowyn2


re: #90 bulwrk

Santas ho ho ho offensive to women

only to hos

Or Ho-Ho cakes.


Banned in New Zealand.....Santa's must laugh,,ha,ha,ha......true!

111 Clio  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 12:43:55pm

re: #88 Orde

I have had the chance to follow -- from a distance -- the careers of some Foreign Service types. Quite a few who are stationed in Country X, or are Foggy Bottom desk officer for Country X, come to regard said country as a "client". They drift into promoting the interests of Country X instead of those of the US.

Then after they leave the Foreign Service, big international corporations hire them as VPs in charge of doing business with Country X -- where they have made such useful friends in high places.

112 tangonine  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 1:45:33pm

John Bolton's new book addresses this issue: The fact that the State Department is basically a rogue agency and has been for quite some time. They do what they want irrespective of the White House, or any one else for that matter.

After hearing him talk to this subject, this news isn't that surprising as it may seem...been going on for a long time now.

113 abolitionist  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 2:12:04pm

re: #25 gunner

can any one explain to me why the state department alway seems to be working for everyone of our enemies...

See John Loftus: The Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al-Qaed

He makes a good case that, in order to counter the post-ww2 Soviet communist threat, we (and Britain and France) took into our own intelligence services much of the remnants of the Nazi intelligence services. This includes the Muslim Brotherhood - Hajj Amin al Husseini's power base. In short we hired many of our ww2 era enemies, into the CIA, State Department, etc --those the Soviets didn't, that is. [And over the decades, Arafat and others played both sides like a fiddle.]

114 abolitionist  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 3:36:47pm

Followup (on-topic):
Mainstreaming the Muslim Brotherhood By Patrick Poole
FrontPageMagazine.com | Monday, March 26, 2007

The victory of Democrats in the recent elections has launched a silly season in Washington DC, where absurd ideas that would have been scoffed at this time last year now float on the Potomac breeze like so many cherry blossoms filling the Beltway air with their fragrance.

No better example could be offered for this phenomenon than the recent flurry of articles from foreign policy “realists” urging the Bush Administration to shift its policy and begin to dialogue with the Muslim Brotherhood, which is headquartered in Egypt but has affiliates in more than 70 countries, including the US. This position is best represented in an article in the current issue (March/April 2007) of Foreign Affairs by Robert Leiken and Stephen Brooke of the Nixon Center, “The Moderate Muslim Brotherhood”. They summarize their argument thus:

Even as Western commentators condemn the Muslim Brotherhood for its Islamism, radicals in the Middle East condemn it for rejecting jihad and embracing democracy. Such relative moderation offers Washington a notable opportunity for engagement -- as long as policymakers recognize the considerable variation between the group's different branches and tendencies.

[snip]

115 Just Another Four-letter Word  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 3:49:01pm

Hey, hey!
Ho, ho!
The State Department's gotta go!

(repeat as often as necessary)

The State Department is beign run by a bunch of socialists/marxists/communists. Just listen to Glenn Beck.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us." - Pogo

JAFLW

116 Opinionated  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 4:00:37pm

And that's not all.

The Bush administration's counterterrorism policies appear tough, but inside the courtroom, they evaporate, consistently favoring not American terror victims, but foreign terrorists.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

What is there to say about a President who sends men and women to war- some to bleed and die- while simultaneously he appeases the enemy at every turn?

Remarkably there are still some Bush/Rice supporters left. Maybe they have an answer.

117 EE  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 6:37:02pm

New 'Useful Idiots'? by Youssef Ibrahim
[Link: www.nysun.com...]
Those in the West who would have us regard the Muslim Brotherhood as moderate are useful idiots -- idiots, and useful to the Islamist movement.

118 EE  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 6:39:21pm

re #117


New ‘Useful Idiots'?

By YOUSSEF IBRAHIM
May 10, 2007

For years, the Soviet Union benefited from those Vladimir Lenin is said to have dubbed "the useful idiots of the West" — reporters, scholars, leftists, and assorted romantics who said the Soviet system of totalitarianism was not so bad.

Leading its own charm offensive, another evil empire, the Muslim Brotherhood, has assembled its own enablers among the West's august institutions during the last few years.

On May 2, the Wall Street Journal glossed over Prime Minister Erdogan's program of Islamizing Turkey. The editorial page of America's weightiest conservative newspaper instead criticized Mr. Erdogan's secular opponents and warned the deeply secular army against considering a coup.

In an April 29 New York Times article, James Traub wrote as though there was no question mark in the "Islamic Democrats?" headline that ran over his embarrassingly obsequious piece, which sang the praises of a reborn democratic Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

The current issue of Foreign Affairs carries a propaganda piece by Robert Leiken and Steven Brooke, "The Moderate Muslim Brotherhood," that is so lacking in inquisitiveness it is being used as a calling card by the Brotherhood's Politburo. Even the enormously level-headed Economist has argued that maintaining "democracy is more important" for Turkey than the fundamentalist threat, "even if it means enduring a bad, ineffective, corrupt or mildly Islamist government."

"Mildly Islamist" is as oxymoronic as "chilly fire." Once politicized, a religion becomes a weapon rather than a spiritual pursuit, and Islam was politicized instantly upon the death of the Prophet Muhammad in 632. For 14 centuries, its legacy has been an unbroken series of violent expeditions against non-Muslims, endless conquests, and internecine wars between its Shiite and Sunni factions.

The first successor to Muhammad, Abu Bakr, whose caliphate lasted just two years (632–634), was a brilliant military commander who made his first task waging war against those Arabian tribes who refused to pay the "zakat," or Islamic tax, accusing them of "ridda," or apostasy. After Abu Bakr's death, rivalries lead to the assassinations of the next three caliphs, including Uthman and Ali, which led to the historic Shiite-Sunni rupture.

119 EE  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 6:45:13pm

re #117


There is nothing new here. All religions, including Christianity, have had violent phases when they dominated entire societies; one infamous example is the Roman Catholic Church's Inquisition. But over the centuries, more and more countries have adopted constitutional reforms, separated religion from state, and followed evolving standards of democratic thought. They have firmly corralled faith into a privileged spot within a generally secular sphere.

Islam is going in the opposite direction — and its attempts to form a new evil empire are largely presided over by the Muslim Brotherhood. Officially created in Egypt in 1928, the Brotherhood conjured the specter of jihadist Islam with its evergreen slogan, "Islam Is the Solution." It has since spread its thought and principles throughout the Arabian Gulf region, particularly in Saudi Arabia, and today struggles for power in Muslim nations from Egypt to Pakistan.

The Brotherhood's program has remained largely unchanged for seven decades: scrapping civil laws in favor of Shariah law, spreading the faith globally to Africa, Europe, and America, and taking power wherever it exists.

A French Islamic scholar, Gilles Kepel, is one of many in Europe who have painstakingly documented how every Islamic movement, from Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda to Hamas and Hezbollah, and those as far away as Pakistan and Indonesia, has found its origins and its leaders among the original Brotherhood. Backed by Saudi money, the Brotherhood has taken over all of Islam's major religious institutions and is replicating exponentially. From Afghanistan to the mosques of London and storefront "worshipping shops" in Brooklyn, there will be an "Ikhwani" preacher in charge.

The heart of the Brotherhood remains the working manifesto written by Sayed Qutb while he was in jail in Egypt, which is venerated by all Muslim Brotherhood chapters to this day. His life's work comprised two messages: jihad against all infidels and "takfir," the act of declaring another Muslim an apostate. In "Milestones," published in 1964 and the source of charges used to justify Qutb's 1966 execution, he crystallized the logic of fighting national governments to create the Ummah, one nation for all Muslims. According to Qutb, there is no room for "mild Islam"; the only solution is for each nation to be united with all the others under one Islam through jihad.

To the Muslim Brotherhood, "Milestones" is what Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf " was to the Nazi movement: the foundation text for its desired revolution. So Westerners looking into the tenets of the Brotherhood must avoid being ensnared by its seductive side.

However, Messrs. Leiken and Brooke of Foreign Affairs seem to have fallen for an old trick and, in their article, express regret that a top Muslim Brotherhood leader in Britain, preacher Kamal El Helbawi, was banned from a flight to America because his name appeared on a terror watch list. What was the basis for their regret? Mr. El Helbawi is, they said, a "London-based admirer of Shakespeare," and so could not be a terrorist.

If proclaiming a love for Shakespeare is all the Brotherhood has to do to get a free pass, the West is in trouble.

120 FamHistoryGuy  Thu, Nov 15, 2007 9:51:04pm

re: #60 taxfreekiller

TFK I was in Laos in 67/68. Blame the white house, not Sullivan.


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