LGF

 RetweetBritish Spy Chiefs: Iran Punked the CIA

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 8:16:10 am PST

British intelligence chiefs believe that the CIA was hoodwinked by Iran.

British spy chiefs have grave doubts that Iran has mothballed its nuclear weapons programme, as a US intelligence report claimed last week, and believe the CIA has been hoodwinked by Teheran.

The timing of the CIA report has also provoked fury in the British Government, where officials believe it has undermined efforts to impose tough new sanctions on Iran and made an Israeli attack on its nuclear facilities more likely.

The security services in London want concrete evidence to allay concerns that the Islamic state has fed disinformation to the CIA.

The report used new evidence - including human sources, wireless intercepts and evidence from an Iranian defector - to conclude that Teheran suspended the bomb-making side of its nuclear programme in 2003. But British intelligence is concerned that US spy chiefs were so determined to avoid giving President Bush a reason to go to war - as their reports on Saddam Hussein’s weapons programmes did in Iraq - that they got it wrong this time.

A senior British official delivered a withering assessment of US intelligence-gathering abilities in the Middle East and revealed that British spies shared the concerns of Israeli defence chiefs that Iran was still pursuing nuclear weapons.

The source said British analysts believed that Iranian nuclear staff, knowing their phones were tapped, deliberately gave misinformation. “We are sceptical. We want to know what the basis of it is, where did it come from? Was it on the basis of the defector? Was it on the basis of the intercept material? They say things on the phone because they know we are up on the phones. They say black is white. They will say anything to throw us off.

”It’s not as if the American intelligence agencies are regarded as brilliant performers in that region. They got badly burned over Iraq."

Advertisement

248 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 JamesTKirk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:17:15am

Is it punked when the CIA went along willingly, to punk the White House?

2 Diamond Bullet  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:17:16am

Wait - can we still blame the Joos somehow?

3 me  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:17:57am

Iran is pretty damn arrogant, and they have good reason to be. They are playing the geopolitical game like chess grandmasters.

4 TalkinKamel  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:19:35am

Well, if they were hoodwinked, I'm sorry to say it's not really surprising, considering the CIA's performance of late.

5 TalkinKamel  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:20:20am

#2 Diamond Bullet

And, yes, I'm sure somebody, somewhere, will find some way to blame the Jooos for this. . .

6 colin nelson  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:20:30am

This one did not pass the smell test from the word go.

7 EtNorskTroll  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:20:43am

When we see the giant fireball in the East, stretching up to the highest heavens and a huge hole in the ground where Tel Aviv used to be, then we'll know for sure... ~Norsk Troll channeling "Majority of the World"

8 the jinxmedic  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:21:02am

This just in- new inspirational slogans approved by the UN and IAEA-

"Freedom is Slavery"

"War is Peace"

"Ignorance is um, um... ...never mind...

9 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:21:07am

Common sense would dictate "grave doubts".

10 Terp Mole  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:21:36am

Wacademic bedwetters handwrings;

Bush laughs in face of new report, marches toward war

I don’t know about the rest of you out there, but, personally, I’m scared.

With only 13 months remaining in President Bush’s tenure, nothing can stop him now...

Fear mongers!

11 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:21:41am
A senior British official delivered a withering assessment of US intelligence-gathering abilities in the Middle East and revealed that British spies shared the concerns of Israeli defence chiefs that Iran was still pursuing nuclear weapons.

Frankly- I trust the Israelis AND the Brits more than our messed up intelligence community because our intelligence community is still suffering from a clinton induce hangover. Pass the advil, please.

12 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:22:20am

Maybe this is why Ahmadinejad proclaimed the NIS as a victory for Iran.

13 RedSoxNation  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:22:26am

Has there been any real serious work done by think tanks in evaluating how to fix our intelligence agencies? This is very troubling if we have an agency that is always wrong and, more troubling, politically motivated.

14 Carl in Jerusalem  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:22:41am

Good Morning Charles!

Not the only way the CIA has been hoodwinked by Iran. They've been trying to get Iranian nuclear scientists to defect to the West since 2005. So far, fewer than six have defected.

15 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:23:03am

Some 18% of the public believes that farce of a report, and that pretty much represents the media and far left.

16 not neo just conservative  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:23:13am

I've gotta say I trust Brit and Israeli intelligence over US Intelligence any day.

17 me  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:23:32am

re: #15 JammieWearingFool

Some 18% of the public believes that farce of a report, and that pretty much represents the media and far left.

Jammie, where does the 18% figure come from?

18 Jack D. Ripper  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:23:38am

re: #11 Sharmuta

Frankly- I trust the Israelis AND the Brits more than our messed up intelligence community because our intelligence community is still suffering from a clinton induce hangover. Pass the advil, please.


I second the part about the Israelis; the Brits I suppose are on par with our intelligence.

19 Izzy Dunne  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:23:50am

it has [...] made an Israeli attack on its nuclear facilities more likely.


Maybe that could have been the point?

20 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:23:56am

What a surprise.

Iran repeatedly stated that they're pushing ahead with enrichment and additional centrifuges - 50,000 in the next few years. They have 3,000 up and running right now. All it takes to make weapons grade material is time. The more centrifuges, the faster they can make weapons grade uranium and in larger quantities.

Enriched uranium is the key material in nuclear weapons. They could shelve the design of the weapon until they have sufficient quantities, which is why the NIE was such a farce. It admits that they ignore the Natanz reactor, the centrifuges and instead focused on the narrow question of whether Iran shelved the weapons program.

That the Brits and others are saying the US intel agencies got hoodwinked is telling. It's also telling that the authors of the NIE discounted the actual work going on in Iran at Natanz, to make the claims that the Iranians stopped their nuclear work.

21 RTLM  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:24:08am
But British intelligence is concerned that US spy chiefs were so determined to avoid giving President Bush a reason to go to war - as their reports on Saddam Hussein’s weapons programmes did in Iraq - that they got it wrong this time.

Are there any patriots left in the Intel services? Or are they all just incompetent, Clinton appointed, BDS'd political hacks.

22 Logic Probe  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:24:32am

Avatar test

23 joncelli  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:25:09am

re: #4 TalkinKamel

CIA was dead wrong about the Soviet Union's economy and military capacity -- not to mention its imminent collapse -- so being wrong in a big way is not a recent trend for them.

24 Carl in Jerusalem  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:25:46am

re: #17 me

re: #15 JammieWearingFool

Some 18% of the public believes that farce of a report, and that pretty much represents the media and far left.

Jammie, where does the 18% figure come from?

Here.

25 jcm  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:26:00am

re: #3 me

Iran is pretty damn arrogant, and they have good reason to be. They are playing the geopolitical game like chess grandmasters.

It's easy to do when your opponents advisors are more vested in the defeat of their player, than defeating those across the board.

26 Terp Mole  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:26:30am

JihadWatch reports: New Hampshireans in Tehran, fed up with the Thug-In-Chief and the mullahs behind him.

Students stone police in Iran riot

Students defied a clampdown on protests in Iran yesterday by tearing down the gates of Tehran university.

They chanted slogans against President Ahmadinejad and carried placards saying "Live free or die", "No war, no fascism" and "Women must decide their fate, not the state."

They wrecked the iron-barred gates and threw stones at police, according to Iranian state radio, which said the protest ended peacefully...

27 maddogg  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:26:56am

The CIA . Now there's value for the American tax dollar. They cost billions and return not a damn thing thats useful. Its like they were set up by jimmah Carter. They are so hopelessly infested with moonbats that the organization cannot be salvaged.
Fire the lot and start over. And deep 6 their unearned Government retirement while your at it.

28 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:27:22am

(Tinfoil hat on) This is where everyone turns on Israel and we the U.S. turn a blind eye.
1. This report miraculously comes out of nowhere on how Iran has stopped it's nuclear program in 2003. (amazing how the intel to go to war was flawed, yet this intel is Holy Writ.)
2. Israel, not being stupid or dumb and realizing that their very existence is at stake is going to unleash the horde and obliterate Iran's nuclear facilities.
3. Everyone is going to condemn Israel and when the U.S. jumps on the 'condemnation' something bad is going to happen in the Middle East...
4. The Israeli sellout by the U.S. will be complete. We will stand idly by the by. Since Iran is doing so much for the world...

29 me  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:27:37am

re: #24 Carl in Jerusalem


Thanks Carl. I am definitely in the camp of those who do not believe the latest NIE on Iran ... it's nice to see that most ppl are not being fooled.

30 Sizzlack  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:27:52am

You mean people are finally waking up to the fact that maybe just maybe some of the authors of the NIE could have maybe had an agenda...or at least wishful thinking? I thought the NIE was supposed to help to shape policy, not actually make policy. If Israel and the U.K. are saying that the NIE is wrong, given their history screwing up the facts, I have no doubt that they were hoodwinked by Iran.

31 Sizzlack  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:28:34am

re: #30 Sizzlack

I meant the CIAs history of getting things wrong btw.

32 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:29:04am

re: #17 me

re: #15 JammieWearingFool


Some 18% of the public believes that farce of a report, and that pretty much represents the media and far left.

Jammie, where does the 18% figure come from?

Rasmussen.

33 UberNerd  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:29:17am

Wait a tick...Didn't we get a good deal of the "Yellowcake" intelligence from the Brits?

Or was it Zee Ger-maan...?

34 AuntAcid  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:29:21am

"Would you believe...?

35 BuddyG  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:29:32am

re: #15 JammieWearingFool

Some 18% of the public believes that farce of a report, and that pretty much represents the media and far left.


Sigh...
The consequences of a nuclear-armed terror-state should transcend ideology & politics.

36 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:29:45am

re: #27 maddogg

Do not discount what the clinton years did to our intelligence community- the issues we already had were compounded horribly- our security was completely jeopardized. John Deutch ring a bell?

37 joncelli  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:29:45am

re: #27 maddogg

Carter's appointee for DCI, Stansfield Turner, was responsible for eviscerating the clandestine service and destroying CIA's counterintelligence capacity, leading to decades of incompetence and moles popping up everywhere. Yet another baneful legacy of our worst modern president.

38 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:30:18am

re: #10 Terp Mole

Wacademic bedwetters handwrings;

Bush laughs in face of new report, marches toward war
I don’t know about the rest of you out there, but, personally, I’m scared.

With only 13 months remaining in President Bush’s tenure, nothing can stop him now...


Fear mongers!

Ben White is a chicken-chicken

39 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:30:28am

I'm confused: does this mean the Brits are our friends?

40 Occasional Reader  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:30:48am

"Fool us? That's unpossible!"

-The CIA

41 rorschach  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:30:49am

Get career diplomats out of the CIA.

They can't do diplomacy, why think that they can do intelligence?

42 brent  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:30:58am
”It’s not as if the American intelligence agencies are regarded as brilliant performers in that region. They got badly burned over Iraq."

Oh, no they di-int!

Every time I hear discussion of the NIE, I get the image of Chris Matthews yelling at a guest, something to the effect of Bush, drumbeat ... war, misled, and Valerie Plame. I wish it was just a flashback, but I'm pretty sure that sums up his take on the NIE.

I wish he were alone. Or on an island with Keef Obermann. Maybe MSNBC could fill those slots with something like news, or at least more Mika B.

Is that shallow?

43 Shug  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:31:07am

We've misunderestimated Iran

44 Globular Cluster  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:31:07am

The same people who were so quick to criticize the intelligence on Iraq are the ones so quick to accept the report on Iran at face value.

45 astronmr20  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:31:40am

This whole Iran report thing makes no sense,

unless there were enough politically motivated people writing the report.. or the CIA is actually not so bright.

46 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:31:59am
47 Shug  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:32:02am

I nominate Bill Belichick for head of the CIA

Nothing gets past that guy

48 astronmr20  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:32:17am

re: #40 Occasional Reader

"Me fail engligh? That's dispossible!"

-Ralph Wiggum

49 Tenacious  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:32:20am

The CIA is incompetent. The Bush Administration views the CIA as we would view a college campus--with a very liberal, bias groupthink.

Powerline has a great blog post, called "Three Days of the Condor." Check it out.

50 mjazzguitar  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:32:20am

Another view is backroom deals with Iran through the Saudis:
Bush Embarks on Saudi-Brokered Deal with Tehran

the well-connected Saudi journalist Jihad El-Khazen gave his version of the course of events in the Arab newspaper Al-Hayat :

“Here is what happened: The rate of violent acts dropped in Iraq; therefore the American intelligence services discovered that Iran had halted its military nuclear program in 2003. This means that the resumption of violence will make American intelligence services find out that there is a secret military program that is different from the peaceful and famous one.


and:

From my Saudi contact

All roads lead to and go through Riyadh. Add the following to your list. The Saudi Sunni allies in the Sunni triangle in Iraq were instructed by the Saudis not only to stop shooting at the Americans, but work with them as long as the Shiites and the Kurds did not have the ultimate decision making powers.

The reason the Saudis are very active in defusing the US-Iranian squabble is because the Iranians gave the Saudis a shrilling warning last year: If America and or Israel attack us we will attack you and cripple your oil shipment through the Straight of Hermouze; plus arming the Shitte population in Eastern Arabia, the oil area, to revolt against you and make sure the oil facilities are damaged and or remain unproductive. Also, Iran would unleash Hezbollah against the Lebanese Sunnis led by the Saudi protege, the Hirari family, and hand Lebanon to the Syrians through Hezbollah.

51 aaron  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:33:39am

I've been trying to think of a time when the US intelligence community got one right with regard to a country's nuclear program. Not sure that it has happened. But frankly it hardly matters anymore. The NIE says what it says, Bush is effectively neutralized, and the ironic thing is that if the motivation for the NIE was to prevent a war with Iran, it will likely backfire, because Israel now has few other options, and an Israel/Iran war will involve the USA whether the US intelligence community likes it or not - the difference being that the United States will have less ability to control the outcome for having washed its hands of the matter at the point when it should have been most engaged.

52 zmdavid  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:34:17am

The CIA was hoodwinked? Or was it the State Department?

53 astronmr20  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:34:26am

re: #50 mjazzguitar

VERY interesting.. thanks.

54 JamesTKirk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:34:28am

re: #51 aaron

I've been trying to think of a time when the US intelligence community got one right with regard to a country's nuclear program.

Let's not forget how both India and Pakistan caught them by surprise, too.

55 cosmo  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:34:55am

All those who think that Iran has truly shelved their nuclear weapons programme raise your hand.

Okay, hang on, roll call--Blix, Huffington, Pelosi, Reid...um...Rockefeller, Schumer, Mr. Bill, Elastigirl and--who's that in the back? oh...The Ostrich.

56 BuddyG  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:35:15am

re: #43 Shug

We've misunderestimated Iran


"Misunderestimated"? Is that like the "honest truth"?

57 zmdavid  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:35:34am

re: #47 Shug

I nominate Bill Belichick for head of the CIA

Nothing gets past that guy


We want someone who can spy without getting caught.

58 Endangered in MASS  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:35:37am

re: #47 Shug

I second the nomination. At least he knows how to spy on the enemy.

59 Cygnus  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:35:47am

It's all part of Karl Rove's master plan!

60 Page  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:35:55am

I think in this case, we have bad I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E. Very bad, bad I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E.

/"I'm sorry"

61 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:35:59am

john deutch:

Soon after Deutch's departure from the CIA in 1996 it was revealed that classified materials were being kept on several of Deutch's laptop computers designated as unclassified. In January of 1997, the CIA began a formal security investigation of the matter. Senior management at CIA declined to fully pursue the security breach. Over two years after his departure, the matter was referred to the Department of Justice, where Attorney General Janet Reno declined prosecution. She did, however, recommend an investigation to determine whether Deutch should retain his security clearance. President Clinton pardoned Deutch on his last day in office.

This was the HEAD of the cia under the clintons. I fear we will continue to suffer from the damage done to our intelligence from that administration for years to come- still.

62 Shug  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:36:17am

re: #57 zmdavid

re: #47 Shug


I nominate Bill Belichick for head of the CIA

Nothing gets past that guy


We want someone who can spy without getting caught.

It beats those we currently have who get caught without actually spying

63 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:36:34am

Superspy Valerie Plame obtained the information for this estimate after rappeling down IRGC headquarters in the dark of night, crashing through a window Shaft style, and defeating a battalion Revolution Guards in hand to hand combat.

Yet you people are talking as if this estimate was cooked up by some egg head analysts with a political agenda.

Shows how little you all know.

64 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:37:18am

Oh...
So, it's not peace in our time ?
Well, I'm sure the Giggler-In-Chief will find some other reason to giggle...

65 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:37:29am

I read a lot of books by the founder of Seal team 6, Richard Marcinko. One of his biggest rages against the system was the lack of 'Humint', or 'Human Intelligence' or People on the actual ground gathering the intel. So many careerists are worried about moving up to the next pay grade, or kissing the A's of the superiors that it is now all about the 'safe road', satellite imagery, computer intel, anything to not stir up controversy or take a risk. So yeah, I HIGHLY doubt the intel that Iran has just stopped.

Who would you beleive, the empty suit behind a computer...or the leader of the country stating the aimed goal of the country is to have nuclear weapons?

So yeah...we're screwed.

66 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:38:59am

Nothing but the best for our boys in uniform; nothing but distain for these clowns in trenchcoats

67 bulwrk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:39:09am

re: #18 Jack D. Ripper

I second the part about the Israelis; the Brits I suppose are on par with our intelligence.

Say what you want about the Brits, their intelligence service has always been top notch.

68 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:39:10am

re: #50 mjazzguitar

Sounds like business as usual to me.

69 so.cal.swede  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:39:14am

re: #63 Dirk Diggler


*snicker*

70 Solergic  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:39:24am

I'm glad someone called the CIA out on this. And I'm glad was the Brits.

71 maddogg  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:39:29am

re: #36 Sharmuta

re: #37 joncelli


It pisses me off no end that we pay billions for these assholes to give us useless information. Too many are shameless liberals who get paid to undermine their countries security. These people are nothing more than traitors to their country. They are a laughingstock all over the world, except to me, it ain't funny.

Not all in the CIA are incompetent fools or traitors, but the incompetent fools and traitors make sure they are kept neutered.

Dammit Bush, I hold YOU responsible.

72 edomswim  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:39:34am

What are the liberals going to say when Iran finally nukes something?

"oh uh, that? that was the US, how dare they!"

73 Shug  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:40:06am

re: #72 edomswim

What are the liberals going to say when Iran finally nukes something?

they will blame Bush

74 BuddyG  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:40:36am

re: #63 Dirk Diggler

Superspy Valerie Plame...


If she decides to pose, I'll give it a look.

75 birneyw  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:41:13am

”It’s not as if the American intelligence agencies are regarded as brilliant performers in that region. They got badly burned over Iraq."


Hmmm arnt they also there? Wasnt this a colaboration, or since its not going "well" in thier eyes its all Americans fault...

76 Occasional Reader  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:41:39am

re: #63 Dirk Diggler

Superspy Valerie Plame obtained the information

YOU FOOL! YOU REVEALED HER SECRET IDENTITY!

77 JamesTKirk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:41:46am

re: #73 Shug

re: #72 edomswim

What are the liberals going to say when Iran finally nukes something?

they will blame Bush

And the jooos.

"Iran stopped working on nuclear bombs in 2003, so it must have been Israel that bombed Tel Aviv! They're just trying to drum up an excuse to go to war, like the USA did when Karl Rove slammed those planes into the WTC!"

78 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:42:01am
79 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:42:23am

re: #71 maddogg

This problem started long before Bush, though. I cannot stress enough the damage done by the clinton appointees to the cia. If you'd like to learn more, I recommend Intelligence Failure by David N. Bossie.

80 JamesTKirk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:42:27am

re: #76 Occasional Reader

re: #63 Dirk Diggler

Superspy Valerie Plame obtained the information

YOU FOOL! YOU REVEALED HER SECRET IDENTITY!

She's not a superspy. I can tell, because she has her martinis stirred, not shaken. Poser.

81 Shug  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:42:30am

re: #77 JamesTKirk

armageddon was an inside job

82 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:42:49am

But Iran never had a nuke weapons program.

83 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:43:07am
84 debutaunt  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:43:32am

re: #8 the jinxmedic

This just in- new inspirational slogans approved by the UN and IAEA-

"Freedom is Slavery"

"War is Peace"

"Ignorance is um, um... too prevalent...

85 FlyingTigress  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:43:35am

re: #72 edomswim

What are the liberals going to say when Iran finally nukes something?

"oh uh, that? that was the US, how dare they!"

No. "But, we don't know why... I mean, it isn't like we voted for Bush!"

/mikey moore

86 wolfgang  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:43:37am

At the first notice of a detonation, whether it occurs at Natanz, Mahal, Tel Aviv, Haifa, or New York City, Mssrs Van Diepe, Brill, and Fingar, should be forcefully apprehended and brought to a solidly anchored stake at a convenient location.
The NIE that the aforementioned gentlemen authored was brash partisan politics on a nation endangering scale, in order to set the political stage for the election of a Pacifist Democrat as President.
These are some of the sacks of human excrement at work in Washington who would sell their birth nation out at a wholesale price in order to advance their political party's fortunes. We now know the names of three of them.

87 profitsbeard  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:43:39am

But didn't the CIA know all about the Pakistani nuke program?

Or the fall of the Soviet Union?

Or Iraq's WMD's?

We must believe them now.

Their record is so damned good.

88 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:43:48am

re: #55 cosmo

All those who think that Iran has truly shelved their nuclear weapons programme raise your hand.

Okay, hang on, roll call--Blix, Huffington, Pelosi, Reid...um...Rockefeller, Schumer, Mr. Bill, Elastigirl and--who's that in the back? oh...The Ostrich.

Rita Farr is not a moonbat

89 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:44:01am

We could have told them that.

/wishes the CIA read LGF

91 anat  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:44:38am

Oh well, if the Europeans say so, the US may comply.
Maybe this was the purpose of the whole exercise, to get the Europeans to say it. For if the Americans do the Europeans automatically object.

92 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:44:39am

re: #82 Ben Hur

But Iran never had a nuke weapons program.

Because iran is a Regime of Peace.

93 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:45:09am
94 JamesTKirk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:45:26am

re: #90 Ben Hur

France: Man threatens suicide unless former IDF chief leaves conference

"Good riddance, monsieur. Au revoir."

95 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:45:39am
96 toadbelly  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:45:39am

that NIE report really screwed us, it didn't take long for the Chinese to take advantage of our bumbling duplicity: China Makes Deal w Iran

97 maddogg  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:46:23am

re: #79 Sharmuta

re: #71 maddogg

This problem started long before Bush, though. I cannot stress enough the damage done by the clinton appointees to the cia. If you'd like to learn more, I recommend Intelligence Failure by David N. Bossie.

Yes, but GWB has had 8 years to do something about it, and the CIA is still floating turds in the punchbowl.

Thanks for the book recommendation, but I already know enough to cause me to stroke...

98 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:46:27am

re: #91 anat

Interesting take. I doubt that was the intent, but it might just be the response.

99 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:46:33am

re: #88 Mr Spiffy

Prettier than the RubberbandMan.

100 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:47:04am

re: #75 birneyw

”It’s not as if the American intelligence agencies are regarded as brilliant performers in that region. They got badly burned over Iraq."


Hmmm arnt they also there? Wasnt this a colaboration, or since its not going "well" in thier eyes its all Americans fault...


It's quite possible that the source for the Telegraph has a slight case of BDS...

This is still an unnamed source's opinion that the US intel community that authored the NIE saw only what they wanted to see with regards to intel from Iran. However, given the history of the US intel's community covert war against the present Administration, particularly and effectively led by 3 of the main authors of the NIE, I would still place my faith in this on the fact that the NIE was marginalized for political purposes. Even though 08 doesn't have Dubya running, they still feel they have to cripple any legacy.

101 Carl in Jerusalem  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:47:08am

re: #52 zmdavid

The CIA was hoodwinked? Or was it the State Department?

More likely the CIA was hoodwinked BY the State Department.

Either that or they were co-conspirators in hoodwinking the White House.

102 JamesTKirk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:47:14am

re: #95 buzzsawmonkey

re: #90 Ben Hur

France: Man threatens suicide unless former IDF chief leaves conference

I pledge $25 towards his headstone.

How tall is the building that he's threatening to jump off of? We may have a new Saint Pancake coming up down.

103 marwan's daughter  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:47:28am

Send him to the Village! He knows too much!

104 BuddyG  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:47:29am

re: #93 lawhawk

Blix...


Now if he posed, I would not look.

105 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:47:51am

re: #93 lawhawk

re: #55 cosmo

Actually, Blix thinks Iran's still working on their nuclear program.

He also thinks that they have a right to have a program...and the bomb.

106 Occasional Reader  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:47:57am

re: #90 Ben Hur

France: Man threatens suicide unless former IDF chief leaves conference

The most moderate, diplomatic response I can think of is:

JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP!

107 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:48:04am

re: #97 maddogg

It's easier to break something than it is to repair it, and boy is it broken.

108 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:48:05am

re: #90 Ben Hur

France: Man threatens suicide unless former IDF chief leaves conference

"Conference to unidentified man, before continuing as scheduled: 'I'm sure you'll be missed somewhere' "

109 zmdavid  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:48:09am

re: #91 anat

Oh well, if the Europeans say so, the US may comply.
Maybe this was the purpose of the whole exercise, to get the Europeans to say it. For if the Americans do the Europeans automatically object.


Does reverse psychology really work? I often wondered if Bush became a Democrat, would all the BDS sufferers become Republicans?

110 justnobody  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:48:15am

The NIE report is retarded. If you were Iran, and you saw the US invading your neighbor in 2003, would you halt your nuclear weapons program or accelerate it?

111 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:48:36am

re: #92 Poitiers-Lepanto

re: #82 Ben Hur


But Iran never had a nuke weapons program.

Because iran is a Regime of Peace.

NO. Because, that's what the MSM and the Left have been saying from the beginning.

No weapons program.

112 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:48:39am

The Brits know a bureaucratic coup d'etat when they see one.

113 Carl in Jerusalem  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:48:51am

re: #90 Ben Hur

France: Man threatens suicide unless former IDF chief leaves conference

Can I contribute some gasoline for him?

114 Shug  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:49:12am

This all reminds me of a game of three card monty

115 coquimbojoe  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:49:45am

re: #1 JamesTKirk

Is it punked when the CIA went along willingly, to punk the White House?

Is it punked when these people have a recent history of not being able to find their ass with both hands on a sun shiny day?

116 Idle Drifter  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:49:49am

Want some scary reading material, read "See No Evil".

It's the memoirs of a CIA agent recruited from Cal Berkley during the 60's. Trust me this guy was recruited when the CIA was serious business and the book chronicles the slow downward spiral of the CIA into the 90's and the CIA became a career center with agents not very serious in collecting intelligence with the FBI all to eager to investigate the agents actually doing their job.

117 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:49:51am

re: #113 Carl in Jerusalem

re: #90 Ben Hur


France: Man threatens suicide unless former IDF chief leaves conference

Can I contribute some gasoline for him?

"If you land on my car, I'll kill you! Oh wait... Never mind."

118 Muadib  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:49:53am

re: #78 buzzsawmonkey

re: #74 BuddyG

re: #63 Dirk Diggler

Superspy Valerie Plame...



If she decides to pose, I'll give it a look.

She is a poseur.

touché

119 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:49:57am

re: #101 Carl in Jerusalem

re: #52 zmdavid


The CIA was hoodwinked? Or was it the State Department?

More likely the CIA was hoodwinked BY the State Department.

Either that or they were co-conspirators in hoodwinking the White House.

Or, the WH just decided that they didn't want to fight the issue knowing how it would get spun in the press against them. Or perhaps, they decided to appear 'above it all' and not make this into a major fight at this time given the lose lose proposition.

120 BuddyG  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:50:02am

re: #114 Shug

More like Russian Roulette

121 JamesTKirk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:50:02am

re: #113 Carl in Jerusalem

re: #90 Ben Hur
France: Man threatens suicide unless former IDF chief leaves conference

Can I contribute some gasoline for him?

He's threatening to jump off of a building. He wants to prove that the rest of us don't understand the gravity of the situation.

122 Iron Fist[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:50:16am
123 pat  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:50:33am

American General, Taliban punked the Brits

Americans trash treaty Brits 'negotiated' with Taliban. Full scale air and parachute assault on Taliban.

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

To be fair, the Brits are woefully unprepared for actions of this type. They have no medium armored assault vehicles. So they instigate these fake treaties as they have done since the 1800s. In fact I read Brits are buying the very good Canadian light armor. Which is interesting. Canada doe not have enough mil to take on the Alaskan National Guard, but makes some pretty good light and medium armor of original design.

124 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:50:36am
125 amphibian  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:50:45am

What? Our CIA? Falling for some fairly transparent Iranian lies? Well, I'm sure surprised.

Looks like it's still the same bunch that believed that Chalabi character about Iraq. One of the lizards wrote an article last week about how the CIA is composed of the Bondjamesbond section and the ex-academic wonks section, and how the two do not get along. Looks like the wonks did what they do best and completely misread a situation. Didn't see that coming a-tall.

126 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:51:06am

re: #115 coquimbojoe

re: #1 JamesTKirk


Is it punked when the CIA went along willingly, to punk the White House?

Is it punked when these people have a recent history of not being able to find their ass with both hands on a sun shiny day?


That's only because their heads are up their ass.

127 justnobody  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:51:15am

Also, back when the Baker-Hamilton commission published its Saudi-inspired report, everyone here said that Bush will ignore its recommendations. It turned out that Bush is following the report to the letter (Annapolis, anyone?).

128 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:52:02am

re: #116 Idle Drifter

Want some scary reading material, read "See No Evil".

It's the memoirs of a CIA agent recruited from Cal Berkley during the 60's. Trust me this guy was recruited when the CIA was serious business and the book chronicles the slow downward spiral of the CIA into the 90's and the CIA became a career center with agents not very serious in collecting intelligence with the FBI all to eager to investigate the agents actually doing their job.


Thank you Sen. Church and Rep. Torricelli...with a great big assist to Dhimmi Carter and Bubba.

129 debutaunt  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:52:28am

re: #55 cosmo

All those who think that Iran has truly shelved their nuclear weapons programme raise your hand.

Okay, hang on, roll call--Blix, Huffington, Pelosi, Reid...um...Rockefeller, Schumer, Mr. Bill, Elastigirl and--who's that in the back? oh...The Ostrich.

We shelve the Wheaties box every day...

130 amphibian  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:52:34am

re: #3 me

Iran is pretty damn arrogant, and they have good reason to be. They are playing the geopolitical game like chess grandmasters.

They are being slightly competent. Not their fault if they are playing against a bunch of idiots.

131 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:52:41am

re: #122 Iron Fist

re: #90 Ben Hur,

Call his bluff.

$5 says he bounces.

132 Page  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:53:13am

There is far more collective intelligence and wisdom on this little website than in there is in the vast apparatus of the federal government and it's so-called intelligence community.

(and a helluva lot more patriotism as well)

133 afdad  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:53:41am

re: #86 wolfgang

Some won't wait for stakes to be put in place, nor are these three the only people held responsible.

134 coquimbojoe  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:53:54am

re: #113 Carl in Jerusalem

re: #90 Ben Hur

France: Man threatens suicide unless former IDF chief leaves conference

Can I contribute some gasoline for him?

I don't know what is more insane, BDS or anti-Israel sentiment. Things get scary when rational thought doesn't enter into some peoples' mind. Bush isn't perfect (!) and neither is Israel, but neither deserve the accompanying craziness when they are involved.

/Happy Hanukkah Carl!

135 coquimbojoe  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:55:21am

re: #126 Athos

re: #115 coquimbojoe

re: #1 JamesTKirk


Is it punked when the CIA went along willingly, to punk the White House?


Is it punked when these people have a recent history of not being able to find their ass with both hands on a sun shiny day?


That's only because their heads are up their ass.

Makes sense! Thanks for clearing that up for me! ;)

136 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:55:24am

re: #121 JamesTKirk

Love the play on words.

137 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:55:30am

re: #127 justnobody

Also, back when the Baker-Hamilton commission published its Saudi-inspired report, everyone here said that Bush will ignore its recommendations. It turned out that Bush is following the report to the letter (Annapolis, anyone?).

Now you will get a number of answers that will explain to you what a great poker player Bush is.

Sigh.

/By "Bush" I mean the Giggler-In-Chief of course...

138 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:55:31am

re: #110 justnobody

Well, I'd do both - continue working on it secretly and make claims that I've stopped. That way, fool the intel agencies into thinking you're no longer a threat even as you work on your tactical and strategic capabilities without worrying about the US forces on your doorstep.

Then, encourage the insurgency so that you keep the US pinned down because it further bolsters your tactical and strategic interests in the region and gives your scientists time to work out the kinks in the enrichment process.

You continue working on the enrichment all the while, slowly building up the amount of enriched uranium and the technical know-how, which will help when you are ready to spring nuclear weapons on your enemies. And by enemies, that includes the Sunnis surrounding Iran, the US, Israel, and Europe - pretty much anyone who stands in Iran's way of bringing about the apocalyptic visions of the mad mullahs and their nutter in chief, Ahmadinejad.

139 Infidelsalwayswin  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:56:01am

Who came up with the word punked? Can we blame Ashton Kutcher? Yeah, let's do that - he really gets on my tits.

140 Carl in Jerusalem  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:58:57am
141 coquimbojoe  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:59:00am

re: #93 lawhawk

re: #55 cosmo

Actually, Blix thinks Iran's still working on their nuclear program.

Is Blix just a contrarian? Or, is he being honest here? I believe they are working harder than before, I have no proof, its my gut feeling. But Hans Blix alway seems to go opposite of the US, so what proof does he have and why is he talking now?

142 JamesTKirk  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 8:59:45am

"Oh no, not Hans Brix!"

143 ratherdashing  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:01:06am

U.S. Generals: ‘Jury Still Out’ on Flow of Weapons From Iran


WASHINGTON, Dec. 7, 2007 – Though U.S. officials now believe Iran stopped its nuclear weapons program four years ago, the jury is still out on the extent to which Tehran is influencing the battlefield in Iraq, two senior officers said at a Pentagon news conference today.

CU.S. Marine Corps Lt. Gen. John Sattler, right, Joint Staff director for strategic plans and policy, responds to a reporter's question during a Pentagon press briefing on Dec. 7, 2007. Sattler was joined at the lectern by another senior Joint Staff officer, U.S. Army Lt. Gen. Carter Ham, director for operations, to update reporters on recent military developments.

The new National Intelligence Estimate on Iran has caused “no course correction” on the Joint Staff, Marine Lt. Gen. John F. Sattler, the Joint Staff’s director of strategic plans and policy, said.

“We take the (National Intelligence Estimate) on board as we look at the country of Iran,” he said. “The Iranians have said officially they would not support nefarious activities -- movements of weapons and materials into Iraq and Afghanistan.”


Hell, the US Military is now quoting the NIE

144 debutaunt  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:02:02am

re: #114 Shug

This all reminds me of a game of three card monty

The card on the left?

145 Texas Joel  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:02:10am

re: #27 maddogg

The CIA . Now there's value for the American tax dollar. They cost billions and return not a damn thing thats useful. Its like they were set up by jimmah Carter. They are so hopelessly infested with moonbats that the organization cannot be salvaged.
Fire the lot and start over. And deep 6 their unearned Government retirement while your at it.

They were set up by Carter.
George HW Bush was supposed to take over the CIA on a nonpoitical basis, agreeing not to run for President in the future. The CIA was being purged of effective agents in the wake of Nixon's unfortunate activities. Instead Carter appointed his navy buddy, Stansfield Turner, who along with Frank Church ensured that nobody in CIA who wasn't pure left survived. Ever since the CIA has been a tool of the left against GOP adminstrations, and against the US national interest in general.

146 cosmo  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:02:45am

re: #88 Mr Spiffy

*grin* ... okay ... *snicker* ... no ... *guffaw*

147 debutaunt  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:03:51am

re: #116 Idle Drifter

Want some scary reading material, read "See No Evil".

It's the memoirs of a CIA agent recruited from Cal Berkley during the 60's. Trust me this guy was recruited when the CIA was serious business and the book chronicles the slow downward spiral of the CIA into the 90's and the CIA became a career center with agents not very serious in collecting intelligence with the FBI all to eager to investigate the agents actually doing their job.

The books about Aldrich Ames give you a bit of a jolt.

148 lostlakehiker  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:05:09am

re: #13 RedSoxNation
Our intelligence agencies aren't always wrong. If they were, the president would always know exactly how things stand---180 from what the CIA says.

You try to get the key facts about what's afoot in Iran or North Korea. It isn't easy. They hide stuff. They lie. They tell the truth with respect to inconsequential details. If in fact Iran has abandoned its nuclear weapons program, they would not want the world to know it for sure. It serves their purposes to be seen as dangerous. If they have not, it serves their purposes to be seen as just wanting to seem dangerous. Peeling this onion is probably impossible. They're sitting on the secrets, and we're sitting on the outside trying to look in, and their caves don't have windows.

The few hard facts we have are not comforting. There is just no reason, except to get nukes or to scare people, for Iran to be refining uranium. This coy talk about its being for nuclear "power" is so transparent. Exactly what sort of "power" are we talking about? Not kilowatt hours. Where are the turbines, the cooling towers, the transmission lines? Construction for same? Contracts to buy key precision ingredients of same?

If Iran were spending on all that stuff, and baulking at the price of fuel-grade uranium on the world market, then it might be a different story.

149 ratherdashing  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:06:30am

Former UN nuclear chief Hans Blix surprised by US intel assessment

GENEVA (AP) - Former U.N. nuclear chief Hans Blix said Wednesday that he was surprised by the U.S. intelligence agencies' conclusion that Iran has stopped developing nuclear weapons but assumed it was because they don't want to take the blame for a new war in the region.
«An armed action against Iran cannot happen after this
for the next few years,» said Blix, who now chairs Sweden's Weapons of Mass Destruction Commission.
The veteran Swedish diplomat, who tried to avert the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq because no weapons of mass destruction had been found by U.N. inspectors, said the U.S. intelligence report released Monday caught him off guard.
«I was surprised,» Blix told reporters. «For a rather long time we had heard very assured statements from the U.S. side that Iran is acquiring nuclear weapons and that the program of enrichment is a part of that effort.
Now, he noted, they have concluded that the process toward the weapons program was interrupted in 2003 and that they do not see such a program at the present time.
Blix said the U.S. agencies likely acted because they heard «all the rhetoric of World War III _ and either we have the Iranian bomb or we have the bombing of Iran.
The report on Iran followed an inaccurate 2002 assessment by U.S. intelligence of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program.
«The intelligence services got a lot of blame for the invasion of Iraq that they had exaggerated what they saw ,» Blix said. «This time they do not want to carry the responsibility.
He said he didn't know what evidence the U.S. intelligence agencies have that proves the Iranians abandoned their weapons program.

Blix, who formerly headed the International Atomic Energy Agency, said that's further than the IAEA has gone.
«The IAEA doesn't say there is nothing. They simply say we have not seen any evidence of it,» he said. «Proving the negative is very difficult if at all possible

150 cosmo  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:06:38am

re: #141 coquimbojoe

Hans Blix is no contrarian. He simply has what I'll dub a "relevancy complex." Had he agreed with US intel on Iraq, he would've been resigned to a lifetime of irrelevancy, hence he opposed the US and threw his lot with the Iraqis. Now that the NIE says that there is no nuke programme in Iran, he again takes the other side in order to hold onto whatever semblance of relevance he has left.

It's kinda like O.J. robbing a Vegas hotel room, or Britney Spears flashing her cha-cha as she exits her car. Anything to keep their names in the papers.

151 amphibian  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:08:21am

re: #55 cosmo

All those who think that Iran has truly shelved their nuclear weapons programme raise your hand.

Okay, hang on, roll call--Blix, Huffington, Pelosi, Reid...um...Rockefeller, Schumer, Mr. Bill, Elastigirl and--who's that in the back? oh...The Ostrich.

I think Blix does not believe that there is nothing to worry about in Iran. Out-insighted by Dr. Blix, who has difficulty locating his hind-quarters with both hands. If the CIA had any shame, there would be ritual suicides going on.

152 londonpride  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:10:57am

re: #18 Jack D. Ripper

re: #11 Sharmuta


Frankly- I trust the Israelis AND the Brits more than our messed up intelligence community because our intelligence community is still suffering from a clinton induce hangover. Pass the advil, please.

I second the part about the Israelis; the Brits I suppose are on par with our intelligence.

Yep, as a Brit I agree

153 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:12:06am

re: #141 coquimbojoe

Some of it comes from Blix's anti-Americanism. He, for example, believes that the entire issue can be resolved if the US decides to talk directly with Iran and offer it large numbers of carrots just like the US did with DPRK in 1994 (Agreed Framework). Blix is either deluded or ignorant that the Agreed Framework only provided DPRK with the time and space to complete their program. Following Blix's advice will only result in confirming Iran get's the bomb.

Blix also has stated that any nation has a right to self defense, and that with 'massive' numbers of US troops 'encircling' Iran, Iran has the right to develop weapons to 'defend itself'.

Let's remember that Blix is the proto-typical leftist Eurotard diplomat...marginally competent and a charter member of the blame America first club. The fact that the US, with 30+ other nations went to war in Iraq, in his opinion without UN approval, just adds to the contempt he holds to this country. He actually called the invasion of Iraq as being specifically 'unauthorized' by the UN. The US, according to Blix, is subserviant to the UN, and should only be it's cash source...until, of course, the UN figures out how to tax and collect $$ directly from the people of the world.

154 ErnieG  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:12:34am

re: #131 Athos

re: #122 Iron Fist

re: #90 Ben Hur,

Call his bluff.

$5 says he bounces.

I've got $5 that says he splats.

155 amphibian  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:13:51am

re: #73 Shug

re: #72 edomswim


What are the liberals going to say when Iran finally nukes something?

they will blame Bush

Bush is Commander in Chief. If he acts and eliminates this threat it will he who deserves praise. If he listens to bad advice from Baker and co. and there are consequences, he will deserve blame.

156 justnobody  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:14:22am

re: #138 lawhawk

Exactly. What really annoys me is that many politicians paid with their careers for their alliance with the Bush administration: John Howard, the Kaczynski brothers and others. The NIE report is another betrayal of those politicians who have been supporting the US position.

157 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:14:47am

re: #116 Idle Drifter

Trust me this guy was recruited when the CIA was serious business and the book chronicles the slow downward spiral of the CIA into the 90's

Thanks- I'll add that book to me never shrinking book list, but I'm guessing what he reveals about the 90s confirms what David Bossie says in his book I recommended earlier up thread.

I'd like to say, though, that it's not just the personnel, it's the policies they have to adhere to that is just as much a problem.

158 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:14:56am

re: #149 ratherdashing

Blix, who formerly headed the International Atomic Energy Agency, said that's further than the IAEA has gone. %uFFFDThe IAEA doesn't say there is nothing. They simply say we have not seen any evidence of it,%uFFFD he said. %uFFFDProving the negative is very difficult if at all possible.

Ah, the Blix precedent...we can't say it exists since we can't see 100% of it, but then, since we can't see 100% of it, then you can't take any action unless it is to bribe them into compliance.

159 Thor-Zone  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:15:47am

Iran Punked the CIA...

So did Sadam

160 ratherdashing  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:16:31am

... laughing at Sharmuta's avatar. :D

161 ratherdashing  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:19:04am

re: #158 Athos

You forgot. The IAEA probably wanted to "administer" said bribe, as well.

162 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:19:20am

It is past time to clean house of the 'professional bureaucrats' in DC who have determined that their duty is to obstruct and damage an Administration they politically oppose than it is to do their professional best for the country.

If these persons had any moral fiber, they would just resign en mass in protest over the policies and approach. But instead, they are mere partisans pinheads.

163 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:20:09am

re: #161 ratherdashing

True...taking the UN's usual cut combined with a healthy 'administrative' fee.

164 sparrowlake  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:20:27am

The problem is not that U.S. intelligence agencies are stupid or inept.
It's much worse than that.
The problem seems to be that the leadership of these agencies allow their political agendas to colour their analysis and reporting.
That is why they resort to the use of vague language and misleading conclusions, and then they employ obscure footnotes to try to cover their asses.
How embarrassing that the President cannot get straighforward and honest intelligence reports from his own agents.
And even more embarrassing that he repeatedly seems to swallow the bait - hook, line and sinker.

165 mjazzguitar  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:21:04am

re: #110 justnobody

The NIE report is retarded. If you were Iran, and you saw the US invading your neighbor in 2003, would you halt your nuclear weapons program or accelerate it?

Libya supposedly changed their minds.

166 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:23:35am
167 wolf  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:26:02am

My take on this is strictly conjecture, but I have a feeling that Bush is just passing on the problem.

Cheney and he have been talking tought towards Iran for a couple years. The prevailing opinion was that we would bomb Iran's nuclear facilities in 2008. It appears to me that Bush no longer wants to ride the heat for doing what must be done. The CIA assessment give him to opt out he needed. Iran will now be the problem of the next administration and Bush's legacy will not be tainted by an unprovoked attack on Iran that would annoy the Russians to no end.

Secondly, if Iran has stopped their nuclear bomb development program, it is simply because they currently have all the technology figured out. They are now working on the delivery systems and obtaining the enriched uranium they need to fabricate the bomb.

Bush is simply backing down. Iran will have the bomb during the next administration and it will be, probably, Hillary's problem. That may force Isreal to act unilaterally, because once Iran has the bomb, it is only a matter of time before they drop it on Tel Aviv.

168 amphibian  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:29:03am

re: #148 lostlakehiker

You try to get the key facts about what's afoot in Iran or North Korea. It isn't easy. They hide stuff. They lie. They tell the truth with respect to inconsequential details. If in fact Iran has abandoned its nuclear weapons program, they would not want the world to know it for sure. It serves their purposes to be seen as dangerous. If they have not, it serves their purposes to be seen as just wanting to seem dangerous. Peeling this onion is probably impossible. They're sitting on the secrets, and we're sitting on the outside trying to look in, and their caves don't have windows.

It is the job of our national intelligence services to learn these things. It isn't easy. It's not supposed to be. If Iran posted all their national secrets on [Link: www.madmullas.com,...] we could hire a high school kid to gather the information and save on CIA salaries.

169 selpaw  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:29:36am

Iran punked it and it is not too pleasing to know this administration swallowed it like a football player on crack ran with it!

Shas minister: Americans' attitude to report reminiscent of Auschwitz

"How can we rely on the Americans if they publish this report that emasculates what the world explicitly knows regarding Iran, and renders impotent the entire struggle against the Iranians?"

Column One: The abandonment of the Jews

One thing for sure, this episode of pure insanity will not quiet.

170 Endangered in MASS  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:30:19am

re: #140 Carl in Jerusalem

Even worse.

171 RickZ  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:32:12am

re: #162 Athos

If these persons had any moral fiber, they would just resign en mass in protest over the policies and approach. But instead, they are mere partisans pinheads.

No, I don't think these partisan pinheads are just 'mere' ones. What they've done with this report, and continue to do on a day-today basis, is tantamount to a palace coup usurping the Consitutional authority of the elected President and Congress, that is, they are trying to make policy for the United States, instead of following it.

172 kynna  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:32:25am

re: #10 Terp Mole

Wacademic bedwetters handwrings;

Bush laughs in face of new report, marches toward warI don’t know about the rest of you out there, but, personally, I’m scared.

With only 13 months remaining in President Bush’s tenure, nothing can stop him now...

Fear mongers!

I remember them saying the same thing about Reagan. They're pathetic.

173 Cygnus  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:33:15am

re: #73 Shug

re: #72 edomswim

What are the liberals going to say when Iran finally nukes something?

they will blame Bush

Just like they do for everything else.

174 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:35:12am

re: #166 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, the spoils system was/is corrupt; but as we see, civil service merely institutionalizes a different form of corruption by creating a permanent government that regards the officials elected by the people as its enemy.

In the past, they regarded the elected as 'transient' and not the true 'professionals' that held the government together, that ran the government, the glue so to speak. They might have held the elected / appointed with a level of contempt - they tried to convince them where the elected / appointed were wrong in their directions, but they also were good 'soldiers' who when they lost the argument, tried to implement the policy to the best of their ability for the good of the country.

Somewhere along the lines - this changed. I don't recall seeing such an open revolt during the polarity of the Clinton administration - this really seems to be a reaction to the 2000 election loss combined with the loss of Congress taking all other real power from the Dems.

Ken Timmerman reports of the latest briefing on the NIE to Congress - referencing Rep. Hoekstra...

Representatives from the 16 member agencies of the intelligence community briefed the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday, and the House committee on Wednesday.

Hoekstra said that the closed-door presentation was “pathetic.”

“We expect them to be forthright, so you don’t have to ask 50 questions to make sure you ask the right one,” he said. “Members didn’t find them forthcoming, or even well-versed in answering very tough questions that were put to them by Democrats and Republicans.”

Herbert E. Meyer, who helped draft National Intelligence Estimates during the Reagan administration, believes the controversy has become so intense – and so partisan – that the president should appoint a non-partisan commission of experts to sift through the evidence, to determine if it supports the conclusions of the report.

Such a review of the NIE is necessary, he argues, because the main conclusion of the report – that Iran had a nuclear weapons program but shut it down in the fall of 2003 – “flies in the face of virtually everything we know – or thought we knew – about the Iranian regime, its capabilities and its intentions.”

If that key judgment is incorrect, and the Iranians are in fact continuing to build nuclear weapons, “the political impact of its publication will be catastrophic,” Meyer said.

“Simply put, we need to know for sure whether the new Key Judgment is right or wrong,” he said. “And, given the long list of failures and reversals that has plagued our intelligence community during the last decade, it's reasonable to be skeptical.”

All the more reason for a cleaning of the house...despite the political outcry that will result. (Look at the leaks of classified info for additional rationale to this approach.)

175 LeftJustAintRight  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:36:50am

The Israelis will handle dinner jacket and the camel he rode in on too

176 selpaw  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:38:33am

re: #167 wolf

Bush is simply backing down. Iran will have the bomb during the next administration and it will be, probably, Hillary's problem. That may force Isreal to act unilaterally, because once Iran has the bomb, it is only a matter of time before they drop it on Tel Aviv.

YES indeed. I have written about it often.

My take on this is strictly conjecture

No it is not conjecture even though we lack the specifics. Believe me, it is all true. Don't cut yourself short on this one. Your instincts are right on target. Time will unveil it all. It has already begun as a matter of fact.

By the way you misspelled Israel.

177 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:41:29am

re: #169 selpaw

The NIE was published by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence . The Bush admin immediately dissagreed with the report and insited Iran continues to be a threat.

Precisely where is the "swallowing" you speak of?

178 Spiritualized  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:41:35am
The source said British analysts believed that Iranian nuclear staff, knowing their phones were tapped, deliberately gave misinformation.

Nah I'm not buying that.

The report is the product of wilful malfeasance.

179 ErnieG  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:43:19am

re: #73 Shug

re: #72 edomswim

What are the liberals going to say when Iran finally nukes something?

they will blame Bush

Or global warming.

180 selpaw  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:44:03am

re: #175 LeftJustAintRight

Of course! I don't have a moments doubt they will.

Look what they already did in Syria recently to which US Intel already knew what Syria was doing for quite some time . Sadly, the US hid this as not to do anything about it. At the point Israel informed them they were going to the US could not stop it.

see #169

181 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:47:03am

re: #176 selpaw

No it is not conjecture even though we lack the specifics. Believe me, it is all true. Don't cut yourself short on this one. Your instincts are right on target. Time will unveil it all. It has already begun as a matter of fact.

Right... no facts, just "instinct" ...my friend, that's not called conjecture, that called paranoia.

#167 wolf,

Fact check: the NIE was not authored by the CIA. Even the Telegraph article makes that error. The NIE was authored by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence using the submissions of 16 US intelligence agencies. The CIA was just one of those 16 agencies.

182 selpaw  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:47:27am

re: #177 Kenneth

insited Iran continues to be a threat.

Wow, that is going the limit.

immediately dissagreed

yah and to what extent?

I am not going to get in a match with you Kenneth nor will I go off track.

183 LeftJustAintRight  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:48:24am

Question for any Islaminuts...
Will you get your 72 virgins if you get snuffed by a Jewish man or woman?

184 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:49:25am
185 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:50:14am

# 180 selpaw

Look what they already did in Syria recently to which US Intel already knew what Syria was doing for quite some time . Sadly, the US hid this as not to do anything about it.

Actually, some in the Bush admin wanted to act, while some (Rice) did not. When Israel did bomb the Syrian-Iranian facility, the US in fact helped with radar & satalite surveilance.

186 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:50:39am

re: #184 ploome hineni

I feel sick to my stomach

Don't you worry !
Look at the Giggler-In-Chief and relax.

sigh...

187 Is it me?  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:51:17am

If the CIA are taking ANYTHING Dinnerjacket says at face value then you should be scared. He constantly gives contradictory statements to confuse and misinform.
He wants nuclear weapons so he can control/manipulate the ME, esp. as he is part of a Shiite minority. It also furthers the agenda of his Death Cult. The only reason he is trying to deflect the US is to give himself time. Hopefully the technical side will delay him for some time but the NK's will probably help him out. None of this is good.

#26 Terp Mole
WOW - *live free or die* AND womens' rights. Go Iranian students!

188 Kozak  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:51:28am

We need to SCRAP the CIA and rebuild it from scratch. The organization is too entrenched, too corrupt to be reformed.

189 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:53:06am
190 blueboy  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:54:33am

The price of oil dropped when the NIE was revealed though, didn't it?
Good for US economy, bad for Iran's. Economic warfare bluff?

191 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:57:09am

re: #182 selpaw

re: #177 Kenneth


insited Iran continues to be a threat.

Wow, that is going the limit.

immediately dissagreed

yah and to what extent?

I am not going to get in a match with you Kenneth nor will I go off track.

Bush & other officials expressed dissagreement. Some were more outspoken in their dissagreement. How is that what you just described as " swallowed it like a football player on crack ran with it!"...?

The NIE report was clearly a political operation by Dem moles in the State Dept & the intel community (i.e. the 16 agencies who submitted data to the committee who wrote the report). John Bolton accurately identified the highly partisan individuals who wrote the conclusions. The Bush admin was sandbagged.

192 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 9:59:20am
193 selpaw  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:00:01am

re: #185 Kenneth

the US in fact helped with radar & satalite surveilance.

I should damn hope they did!

194 LeftJustAintRight  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:01:05am

I think the CIA and the State Dept along with the rest of the admin will get fixed when the Constitution is replaced with sharia law and the Koran.
You all better brush up on your Islamic attitude and you women better like being a sub.

/sarc

195 scaramouche  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:01:31am

A little flying piggie in the Guardian: The Iran threat has not diminished.

196 marsouin  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:07:03am

It's beginning to appear the CIA and the State Department are as much as threat to US security and peace in the world as the islamists. And Bush lacks the competence to reign in order. What a mess and disgrace!

197 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:10:18am
198 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:10:22am

re: #193 selpaw

I share your outrage at the NIE and the Democrats using this to advance narrow short-term partisan ambitions. But this is all about domestic US politics, sadly unconcerned with the effects beyond the US borders.

Inportant facts:

1. Israel bombed a Syrian-Iranian military intallation.
2. US military assisted.
3. Arab gov'ts said nothing. (which says a hell of a lot, doesn't it?)

199 scaramouche  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:13:07am

I'm sorry to say that any residual respect I had for Bush disappeared when he turned the Jews into the darkies of Annapolis, forcing them to go through the servants entrance lest the unctous Wahhabis perchance to defile themselves by having to touch a doorknob infested with Jew-cooties.

200 Sunlight  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:13:23am

re: #101 Carl in Jerusalem

re: #52 zmdavid

The CIA was hoodwinked? Or was it the State Department?

More likely the CIA was hoodwinked BY the State Department.

Either that or they were co-conspirators in hoodwinking the White House.

You got it there. I still want someone to figure out the intel from before Iraq started and find out where the trucks went, where the planes unloaded... and find what might be left (stored somewhere - after selling out the back door) of WMD that *were* used on Iraqis by their own govt and listed by the U.N. in the early 90s. I can only understand these State and CIA types by the "coolness" factor of what they think is making "peace"... And their unadmitted sickening turf wars and grudges. For these old hippies, coolness trumps every other factor, including stopping mass graves (not a cool enough reason to intervene somewhere) or future slaughters with upcoming bombs.

201 Sunlight  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:16:37am

re: #110 justnobody

The NIE report is retarded. If you were Iran, and you saw the US invading your neighbor in 2003, would you halt your nuclear weapons program or accelerate it?

I would freak out, freeze, dig into mountains, then go gangbusters to get it done.

202 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:17:14am
203 M. Bensson-Levi  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:18:08am

re: #196 marsouin


Fernandel? I thought that I was the last person alive who remembered him.

204 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:18:46am

re: #199 scaramouche

Did Bush admin really force the Israelis to use another door or did the Israeli delegation agree to it on their own? I want to know exactly who said what and to whom.

205 TMF  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:20:57am

The good cap'n got it right at #1

You cant be punked when your the one doing the punking- on the American people

206 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:21:22am
207 TMF  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:21:31am

I want to see who the authors of the "NIE" vote for in 2008

LOL

208 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:24:46am
209 Athos  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:26:43am

re: #200 Sunlight

I can only understand these State and CIA types by the "coolness" factor of what they think is making "peace"... And their unadmitted sickening turf wars and grudges. For these old hippies, coolness trumps every other factor, including stopping mass graves (not a cool enough reason to intervene somewhere) or future slaughters with upcoming bombs.

It goes far beyond 'coolness'. It has its roots in a fundamental misconception of a) how the world works and b) how foreign policy / diplomacy works.

The State Department, and to a lessor but growing extent, the CIA / Intel network, recruits primarily from the Ivy League (the 'upper' levels of academia). In the 40's-90's - this was one of the main path the pro-communist / pro-Soviet influence entered - and sympathetic politicians provided them the cover that they needed as long as they were not too overt. Today, I would venture that the majority of policy makers / analysts are left leaning.

They see the world not as it is, but how they want it to be.

Furthermore, there is an additional cultural rot in Foggy Bottom. Many there believe that their role is to represent, clarify, and communicate the positions of other nations to the United States decision makers as opposed to convincing and promoting the US positions to foreign nations. It is a common joke at USUN that it's far better to do nothing and wait for DC to come around than it is to actively work to make other UN members come around to the US position.

It's all a continuation of the standard leftard academia position of 'Blame America First'. The US is the problem - not the solution.

This combined with the fact that it is far easier to take a contrarian position (politically) than to offer a different competing vision - totally dismisses a 'coolness' factor. The only time 'coolness' comes into play is comradarie of like minded academians and officials sticking it to the 'neo-cons'.

210 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:26:59am

re: #202 taxfreekiller

Obviously, the Bush administration forms the executive branch of the current Government of the United States. Equally obvious to anyone with a basic knowledge of the US political system, the US government includes much more than the President & his administration.

211 perkypauly  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:27:51am

Q. What definers an oxymoron?
A. U.S. Intelligence

212 Sunlight  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:28:17am

re: #148 lostlakehiker

The "not easy" point is exactly right. The authors should admit it and make sure that the general public understands that they know they aren't sure about things because of the stuff you listed, and not stand behind their shop jargon. They didn't even know the wall was going to come down or that Germany had plans all ready for reunification!

213 beachkatie  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:35:31am

I think it is time for some pink slips at C.I.A...

214 scaramouche  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:39:03am

#204 Kenneth

Caroline Glick unpacks the Annapolis apartheid.

215 Sunlight  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:42:37am

re: #193 selpaw

re: #185 Kenneth

the US in fact helped with radar & satalite surveilance.

I should damn hope they did!

And so why is the U.S. holding up the new Israeli satellite? Is it Indian launch capability issues? Or the payload on the satellite that might make the Israelis need less and less from the U.S. (i.e., shutter control?)?

216 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:45:26am

re: #215 Sunlight

I don;t know why the US is doing that, but the one action does not contradict the other. You may have noticed, US foreign policy is full of contradictions.

217 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:46:41am

re: #214 scaramouche

Thanks for the link. I'm not disputing it happened, but I am very curious as to how it came about. If Olmert had any balls he would have told them to screw it.

218 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:55:42am

re: #214 scaramouche

Glick offers no further clarification as to precisly who said what to whom. Was it Rice to told the Israeli's to use another door? What did Olmert & Livni say about that? Glick says the were "forced" to use another door, but does not define the verb "force"... wouldn't an equally accurate description be "Olmert & Livni aquiessed to the Saudi demand passed on by Rice to use sperate doors to enter" ?

My point is this incident is so peculiar, the reporting on it is vague and the commentary so emotional, it's very hard to understand exactly what happened and how it came about.

219 scaramouche  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:56:47am

#216 Kenneth

Olmert is a gelding--also a clueless, masochistic dhimmi.

220 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:03:30am

re: #219 scaramouche

... you forgot "feckless and corrupt into the bargain"

221 pegcity  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:11:41am

re: #218 Kenneth

re: #214 scaramouche

Glick offers no further clarification as to precisly who said what to whom. Was it Rice to told the Israeli's to use another door? What did Olmert & Livni say about that? Glick says the were "forced" to use another door, but does not define the verb "force"... wouldn't an equally accurate description be "Olmert & Livni aquiessed to the Saudi demand passed on by Rice to use sperate doors to enter" ?

My point is this incident is so peculiar, the reporting on it is vague and the commentary so emotional, it's very hard to understand exactly what happened and how it came about.

This looks wonderful for the republican party trying to court jewish votes.

222 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:12:59am
223 scaramouche  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:16:39am

#218 Kenneth

Daniel Pipes had more details (but I can't seem to open his site). Alternatively, Pamela (yes, that Pamela) has a piece on the subject, but I prefer not to link to her.

224 littleO  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:21:43am

May I say it again.Thank you .
Even if there is even loosely connected collusion between intelligence agency's, state department partisans and political Mal-contents who would do an say anything for political advantage. I f we end with a devastating attack, that makes us forget 9/11, because we've stepped back in our military awareness. We should demand trials and imprisonment for all those who endangered the American people in a time of war.
All politicians, bureaucrats and would be Presidents, need to know that there are overwhelming responsibilities that go with holding positions of responsibility in the American government.
I pledge to protect and serve the citizens of the United States, so help me God, come to mind!

225 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:29:22am

re: #223 scaramouche

...all the commentary on the incident repeat the same vague account without any accurate details of who said what to whom.

Was Olmert "forced"? And if so, did Condi put him in a headlock or what?

226 itellu3times  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:30:31am

The whole debate is absurd while everyone agrees Iran is enriching uranium. Absurd. What else can they DO with their nuclear weapons program now, without enriched uranium?

If the Brits are right, and the Iranians put disinformation onto bugged lines, I wouldn't be surprised at all, but that's not the issue, can't our "intelligence" experts show a little intelligence about the big picture?

/rhetorical question

227 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:31:15am
228 itellu3times  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:34:49am

re: #225 Kenneth

...all the commentary on the incident repeat the same vague account without any accurate details of who said what to whom.

Was Olmert "forced"? And if so, did Condi put him in a headlock or what?

A riding crop, probably, but does it matter? Even if it's not significant in any cosmic sense, the irony is sufficient, and I for one tend to believe the very worst readings.

It's pretty obvious to all what the positions and interests were of all the players, and it is very, very hard to see any of the unlikely good outcomes making the symbolic and real comprimises already spent, worthwhile.

229 winston06  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:47:21am

CIA has become a sad place

230 Kenneth  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:49:02am

re: #228 itellu3times

As bad as the Annapolis farce was, I don't think anything will come of it. Bush, Olmert & Abbas are all weak leaders of fractured constituencies. None of them will be in office in a year's time. Annapolis was DOA.

231 So?  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 1:42:34pm

The all-powerful all-seeing eye of the CIA? No, it couldn't be.

zzzCzzzIzzzAzzz

232 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 2:09:56pm
233 rick554  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 2:58:14pm

OUR CIA? no way! Gasp , Punked? When we get intelligence right, we will finish these al quida/iranians off . Until then, keep your powder dry! The current crew is obviously unfit to serve our country. HMMM Where did I hear THAT before?
God bless our TROOPS and G W Bush! Dick Cheny too!

234 BODYGUARDEAGLE  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 3:20:11pm

re: #11 Sharmuta

A senior British official delivered a withering assessment of US intelligence-gathering abilities in the Middle East and revealed that British spies shared the concerns of Israeli defense chiefs that Iran was still pursuing nuclear weapons.

Frankly- I trust the Israelis AND the Brits more than our messed up intelligence community because our intelligence community is still suffering from a clinton induce hangover. Pass the Advil, please.


***

Sharmuta... THANK YOU for the last two sentences... I'm so sick of the Naive idiots in this country picking and choosing just certain parts of investigations or reports and assessments to use as fodder for their self serving political propaganda

235 josephjcox  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 3:31:06pm

re: #7 EtNorskTroll

When we see the giant fireball in the East, stretching up to the highest heavens and a huge hole in the ground where Tel Aviv used to be, then we'll know for sure... ~Norsk Troll channeling "Majority of the World"

No we won't... It could have been an Israeli accident, or a US accident. No indication at all that the Iranians are involved.

236 richiep  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 5:06:37pm

Would love to see the details in the NIE and not just the few released pages.

Whether the CIA fell for disinformation, is following an anti-Bush political agenda, or just incompetent; the report does not make sense.

Why have the Iranians buried very deeply their centrifuges, why aren't they allowing full inspections, why are they enriching fuel when the Russians are supplying fuel for their reactor?

Considering what Israel did in September with Syria and it's previously unknown nuclear program I'll put my money on Israeli intelligence services rather than the CIA.

I wish the Israelis luck with what they are eventually going to have to do. The Iranian state has told the world many times what they want to do to Israel therefore Israel has every right to protect themselves.

237 Maine's Michael  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 5:48:23pm

re: #230 Kenneth

As bad as the Annapolis farce was, I don't think anything will come of it. Bush, Olmert & Abbas are all weak leaders of fractured constituencies. None of them will be in office in a year's time. Annapolis was DOA.

I believe you are mistaken.

Annapolis was a prelude to Bush's visit to Israel and 'PALESTINE' next month, where he will visit with the Palestinian Martin Luther King Jr, Mahmoud Abbas, stand with him arm in arm in Ramallah, and once again articulate (as much as he is capable) his 'vision' of a Palestinian State, to be created by the end of 2008, 'right here, where I am standing today.'.

It will be very difficult for any American President to repudiate that In theroy, that goal after symbolism like that.

It is an out and out betrayal of American promises made to Israel, and fully in line with the true American policy towards Israel:

'We will try and ensure you survive, but we need you to bleed, and be seen to be beleeding, by the Arab world. We will shrink you down, over time, and in return for Arab aquiescence to our goals in the wider middle east, to the smallest size sustainable by modern military technology and diplomatic invention. When the technology imporves, we will shrink you down further. This will continue until out goals are met, or Israel is lost. We will force you to comply by threatening the supply of spare parts and vetoes at the Security Council.'

Indeed, St. Condi of the Amalekites tried to get the Annapolis goal of a state in 2008 with America being the judge and jury as regards compliance with the road map into a binding security council resolution, which was withdrawn at the last minute. I fully expect her to try again.

In theory, that would have left Israel open to sanctions and blockade if a pal state is not created by end of 2008. It would have spun out over longer than that, but it would have hung over Israel's head like a sword of Damocles. It still might.

Now, I can understand those that say America has its interests, and they need not always coincide with Israel's. But even the most hardline of those thinkers would have to acknowledge that recent actions of the US benefit no one but the Sauds and their enablers in the US, Baker and his State Dept flunkeys.

238 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 5:54:44pm

re: #234 BODYGUARDEAGLE

You're welcome. It may come to pass one day that we will consider bill clinton to be the worst President ever. Until that day- I will continue to remind people why he should at least be considered a close second to carter. The damage done to the cia by clinton was deep and is still playing out today.

239 Maine's Michael  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 6:25:22pm
''We call on the American administration to act as judge and force Israel to fulfill its obligations specified in the Road Map'', Saeb Erekat, the Palestinian diplomat, said on Saturday, regarding the announcement of the construction of 300 housing units in the Har Homa neighborhood of Jerusalem. (Guysen.International.News)

. . .and so it begins . . . or continues . . .

240 Maine's Michael  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 6:26:48pm

re: #238 Sharmuta


It will be a tough fight for worst president ever. I believe Dubya is going to give Carter a run for his money.

241 RadicalRon  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 7:15:05pm

Anyone else smell James 'Fuck the Jews' Baker?

242 anat  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:19:39pm

re: #241 RadicalRon

Anyone else smell James 'Fuck the Jews' Baker?

The thought has occurred to me.

243 pesca  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 10:51:11pm

I have no idea why the National Inquirer Estimate is read by anyone seriously looking for real intelligence. What real security agency publishes its real asessments? How absurd. At best, the NIE has the credibility quotient of a NY Times editorial.

244 paybacktime  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:20:14pm

re: #239 Maine's Michael

When will Saeb Erekat demand that his "government" abide by the Road Map by ending the racist Islamofascist brainwashing of their children in schools and children's TV shows that Jews are "sons of pigs and apes"?

Or when will Saeb Erekat demand the cessation of his "governments" kassam rocket attacks on Israel?

245 paybacktime  Mon, Dec 10, 2007 11:25:56pm

re: #240 Maine's Michael

Mikey, your one-term President dhimmi carter has a solid lock on Worst President EVER.

carters paling around with every socialist dictator (Fidel, Arafat, Chavez) doesn't look too good.

Fidel. He's been presidente since 1959. That the same man for 48 years. Socialist Cuba doesn't trust anyone else to lead the "workers paradise".

The only term limit in carters socialist cuba is mortality.

246 Maine's Michael  Tue, Dec 11, 2007 5:13:34am

If Dubya succeeds in giving the on/off switch of the western economies to the Iranians, he will surpass Carter in ineptitude.

Of course, once Iran is the Gulf hegemon, Bush's reputation or lack of it will be the least of our problems.

247 Maine's Michael  Tue, Dec 11, 2007 5:16:43am

re: #244 paybacktime

re: #239 Maine's Michael

When will Saeb Erekat demand that his "government" abide by the Road Map by ending the racist Islamofascist brainwashing of their children in schools and children's TV shows that Jews are "sons of pigs and apes"?

Or when will Saeb Erekat demand the cessation of his "governments" kassam rocket attacks on Israel?

When?

Perhaps Dubya plans to do it next month, when he comes to visit Abbas in Ramallah, putting the stamp of inevitability on the creation of a Pal state, with his 'vision' of a Palestinian State, 'right here, where I'm standing'.

248 EE  Wed, Dec 12, 2007 5:48:26pm

re: #243 pesca

I have no idea why the National Inquirer Estimate is read by anyone seriously looking for real intelligence. What real security agency publishes its real asessments? How absurd. At best, the NIE has the credibility quotient of a NY Times editorial.

You raise an interesting point.

According to Sun Tzu, in The Art of War, chapter I,
paragraph 18,
"All warfare is based on deception."

That being the case, why should we provide feedback to our enemy on the perceptions that we have about our enemy? Are we trying to train them to better spread disinformation, providing clues as to when they succeed and when they don't succeed?

If they launched a missile at us, would we rush to tell them exactly where it landed, and by how much it was off, and in what direction?

Are we working for Iranian intelligence, that we need to supply them with data on the accuracy with which they have disinformed us?

This NIE and especially its publication appears to have had as its goal the changing of US policy, specifically taking the US military option off the table.

What is seldom mentioned (with the notable exception of Krauthammer) is that even if this pause in the weapons-making program were true, it is not a permanent pause, it only involves a few months worth of labor, and the enrichment of uranium continues. The enrichment of uranium continues, and it will lead to weapons-grade enriched uranium. Even if a pause in turning the weapons-grade uranium into a bomb actually happened, there is nothing preventing the Iranians from turning to that task after they have sufficient weapons-grade uranium to make a bomb. And the Iranians are proceeding full speed ahead with developing intercontinental ballistic missiles of longer and longer range. They already have a missile that can reach Israel, and parts of Europe, and American interests in the Middle East. They are continuing with their ICBM development.


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

  • Loading...

More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

Luring disco dollies to a life of vice.

Follow Lizardoid on Twitter
Follow Charles on True/Slant

 Frank says:

I'm not a man for all seasons but I'm doing something right. -- Frank Zappa during the Senate PMRC hearings.