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WaPo/Newsweek Promoting CAIR Again

Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 9:30:31 am PDT

Promoted at the Washington Post/Newsweek “On Faith” site (a propaganda outlet for numerous Islamic radicals, including the spiritual leader of Hizballah), a meeting at Georgetown University: Islam and American Politics: Deepening the Dialogue.

Featuring Nihad Awad, head of the radical Islamic front group CAIR, listed as unindicted conspirators in the ongoing Holy Land Foundation terrorism trial.

Also featuring Muslim Congressman Keith Ellison, who says in a video clip, “While the Founding Fathers got race all wrong and got gender all wrong, they got religion right.”

Islamic issues will play a more and more prominent role in US politics and the 2008 presidential election, according to experts participating in a Capitol Hill roundtable convened by the World Economic Forum and Georgetown University Thursday.

The roundtable, chaired by Georgetown President John J. DeGioia and moderated by On Faith’s Sally Quinn, featured Keith Ellison (D-Minn), the first Muslim member of Congress. It marked the US launch of Islam and the West: Annual Report on the State of Dialogue, a collaboration between the World Economic Forum and Georgetown University.

With the 2008 US presidential election campaign in full swing, Muslim voters and issues are having a greater impact than at any other point in US history. The fact that Barack Obama had a Muslim grandfather – and his middle name is “Hussein” – has surfaced as a campaign issue. And John McCain repeatedly calls “the struggle against radical Islamic extremism” the “transcendent challenge of the 21st century.”

A diverse Muslim community is a growing force in US society and politics. On average, Muslims have higher educational and income levels than their fellow citizens. Nevertheless, Islam remains poorly understood and is a source of broad anxiety. More than six years after September 11th, 2001, most Americans profess a general ignorance of Islam and often associate it with terrorism.

Participants at the roundtable discussion included Akbar Ahmed, Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at American University, Nihad Awad, Executive Director, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Zahid Bukhari, Director of the American Muslim Studies Program, Georgetown University, Sherif El-Diwany, Middle East Director, World Economic Forum, John Esposito, University Professor, Georgetown University, Ari Gordon, Assistant Director for Interreligious Affairs, American Jewish Committee, Jane McAuliffe, Dean of Georgetown College, Georgetown University, Dalia Mogahed, Senior Analyst and Executive Director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies, Jane Ramsey, Executive Director, Jewish Council for Urban Affairs, Rev. Jim Wallis, founder of Sojourners ministries and magazine; and, Zainab Al-Suwaij, co-founder and Executive Director of the American Islamic Congress.

It’s more than a little ironic for them to chide “ignorant” Americans for “associating Islam with terrorism,” when they have an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism trial sitting on their panel.

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253 comments

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1 m  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:33:26am
On average, Muslims have higher educational and income levels than their fellow citizens.

Here they do. I'm sure they don't want to compare country to country though.

2 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:35:21am
3 ec marm  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:35:26am
On average, Muslims have higher educational and income levels than their fellow citizens.


And there are 27 gammazillion of them! On average, lizards have IQs of 167 and play multi-level chess.

4 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:36:23am
5 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:36:24am
More than six years after September 11th, 2001, most Americans profess a general ignorance of Islam and often associate it with terrorism.


Associate islam with terrorism? Nawww, how could anyone possibly come to that conclusion? Just goes to show you what a bunch of unelightened rubes Americans are.
/

JWM

6 m  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:38:00am

Hey Savage! Hope you're doing well! Did you get a load of this junk:

More than six years after September 11th, 2001, most Americans profess a general ignorance of Islam

I know! I tell as many people as I can get to listen.

and often associate it with terrorism.

How dare they?

7 Shug  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:38:15am
Islam remains poorly understood and is a source of broad anxiety


and as it becomes more understood, it becomes the source of a more focused anxiety

8 ec marm  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:38:21am

re: #4 savage_nation

Queen to Queens level 3?


Damn! Check. Now I've got to drive my bimmer to my yacht and study for my doctorate program.

9 Bobibutu  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:38:31am

Two words: El Cid.

10 Shay4l  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:39:00am

Dictionary: fifth column (k%u014Fl'%u0259m-n%u012Dz'%u0259m) n.


n.
A clandestine subversive organization working within a country to further an invading enemy's military and political aims.

[First applied in 1936 to rebel sympathizers inside Madrid when four columns of rebel troops were attacking that city.]

11 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:39:15am

Ellison:

“While the Founding Fathers got race all wrong and got gender all wrong..."

What?

Tell me where gender is mentioned in the Constitution.

Show me, Congressman Ellison.

And, for that matter, show me where RACE is mentioned in the Constitution.

You can't. Because it isn't.

Yes, originally, the Constitution ALLOWED states to have slavery (did not require it), but that was overturned well over a century ago. But even in the part allowing slavery, it did not mention race even once.

12 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:40:18am
On average, Muslims have higher educational and income levels than their fellow citizens.


Because we know just how poor, and uneducated most suicidal terrorists are- Like the London bombers- or the doctors who tried the firebombing on Heathrow airport, or the 19 shitbags that pulled off 9/11. Or Sami Al Arian- another poor, uneducated slob.

JWM

13 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:40:27am

Why would anyone sit on this panel? Don't they know who Awad is?

14 Shug  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:41:44am

My kids diaper is full to the brim
Some call it a wad
Some call it nihad
either way it smells pretty grim

15 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:41:50am

re: #11 zombie

Wasn't voting originally restricted to white, land-owning males back in the days of powdered wigs?

/back then being different from today, that is.

16 Ma Sands  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:42:00am

Got a land-mail newsletter the other day from Keith Ellison that made me seethe --because I don't have a moveable-type scanning connection to my computer, and I so much wanted to post his self-satisfied, all-wrong words here! ):

Not the least, the disclaimer-words boldly shown under the address label:

This mailing was prepared, published and mailed at taxpayer expense.
17 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:42:17am

re: #9 Bobibutu

Two words: El Cid.

Fuck them.

18 Heartland_Patriot  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:42:41am

Isn't CAIR's legitimacy even more suspect than Al Sharpton's and Jesse Jackson's? I mean, last I heard this group only had about two thousand members nationwide. Why do they get such a big bully pulpit from which to prattle on about their agenda? If Saudi money dried up, this organization would be toast the following day.

19 LSD  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:42:58am

Nihad Awad = Undercover Terrorist

Keith Ellison = Chump For Terrorists

20 jaunte  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:43:04am

“While the Founding Fathers got race all wrong and got gender all wrong, they got religion right.”

Founding Father Thomas Jefferson launched the first war overseas, against terror and piracy; it was an unconventional war fought with short term alliances from foreign bases. The muslim enemy in that war believed they had a right given to them by Allah, to enslave those with a different religion, ransom captives, or steal their possessions. Unless he had taken action, these pirates had the capability to sail to the coast of Virginia, Massachusetts, or other seaboard states and raid there, as they did in Iceland or Italy.
Jefferson studied the koran, and in this case, did indeed 'get religion right.'
He was able to comprehend a supremacist ideology when he saw one.

21 Alouette  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:43:47am
More than six years after September 11th, 2001, most Americans profess a general ignorance of Islam and often associate it with terrorism.

What happened on Sept. 11, 2001?

According to CAIR, it is the day that Americans, for no special reason whatsoever, just decided to start persecuting the poor, blameless, peaceful innocent Muslims.

It's the day the Mossad secretly installed "Jew Glasses" on every American's eyes.

22 Heartland_Patriot  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:44:36am

re: #14 Shug

With a little work, this could be a great haiku!

23 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:45:02am

re: #21 Alouette

Whoa. Is that actually from Penny Arcade or is that just Photoshopped?

24 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:45:32am

re: #21 Alouette

What happened on Sept. 11, 2001?

According to CAIR, it is the day that Americans, for no special reason whatsoever, just decided to start persecuting the poor, blameless, peaceful innocent Muslims.

It's the day the Mossad secretly installed "Jew Glasses" on every American's eyes.

Too funny!

25 Alouette  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:45:44am

re: #23 laZardo

It's a photoshop.

26 MeanTeacher  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:46:17am

“While the Founding Fathers got race all wrong and got gender all wrong, they got religion right.”

What does that even mean? None of the Founding Fathers were Muslims: most were fairly orthodox Christians, and the remainder were Deists or functional atheists.

And to zombie: you're forgetting that folks like Ellison don't care about manifest content-- only about the lack of explicitly inclusive language or the allegedly horrific racism/sexism in the culture. Cause obviously Islamic cultures never suffered from either problem.

27 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:46:17am

Unfortunately, the ignorance of islam is true. The other day, I recommended "Fitna" to a very nice woman I work with. When she asked what it was about, I told her, "The jihad". She had never heard the word- had no idea of what was happening in Eurpoe (and here). I tried very hard not to preach, but I told her in no uncertain terms that she needs to get clued in. The irony, too, is that the woman is a regular church goer. Apparently her pastor never mentions this kind of thing from the pulpit.

JWM

28 rwmofo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:46:27am

"On average, Muslims have higher educational and income levels than their fellow citizens."

Liberals say that they're smarter too.

Now I don't have an MBA--wait a minute, I do actually--but my BS detector is going nuts right now.

29 Tumulus11  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:47:17am
'Nevertheless, Islam remains poorly understood and is a source of broad anxiety. More than six years after September 11th, 2001, most Americans profess a general ignorance of Islam and often associate it with terrorism.'
// The Washington Post.


. The Washington Post wants us to 'get over' 9/11.

30 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:49:08am
31 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:49:19am

I hate it when idiots say "The Founding Fathers" did that or that thing wrong -- with the implication that history began on earth in 1776 or George Washington magically had the power to completely restructure global society with a wave of his hand.

In nearly every country in the world in 1776, men were the leaders and had most power in society. Women had less power. That's the way it was.

In every country in the Americas (and plenty elsewhere as well), slavery was allowed, and an already existing state of affairs.

This all existed prior to the US becoming a nation. What do you expect the Founding Fathers to do? Create utopia on earth in a day? Washington had a hell of a time just surviving the war against the British. Jefferson had a hell of a time trying to get 13 arguing colonies to come together.

They did the best they could under extremely difficult circumstances. And created a framework for what grew into the fairest, most egalitarian country in history.

To criticize these men for not doing more and for "not getting it right" is the epitome of ignorance and malice.

For that comment alone, I'd hate Ellison.

32 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:49:24am

These people are full of themselves and full of shit.

33 Shug  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:51:05am

re: #22 Heartland_Patriot

June Allison Says
Awad in your pants that steams
Next time wear Depends

34 Ma Sands  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:51:10am

re: #31 zombie

Right arm! :)

35 jaunte  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:51:29am

"A diverse Muslim community..."

What on earth does he mean by that?

36 gop_patriot  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:51:46am

re: #31 zombie

Favorited. Well said, Zombie!

37 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:52:06am

re: #15 laZardo

Wasn't voting originally restricted to white, land-owning males back in the days of powdered wigs?

/back then being different from today, that is.

See, you've fallen for the brainwash too!

It may have said "land-owning freemen," but it didn't specify their race.

People who have grown up in the educational system of the last 30 years have been so indoctrinated, it scares me.

38 ec marm  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:52:26am

re: #27 JWM

The irony, too, is that the woman is a regular church goer. Apparently her pastor never mentions this kind of thing from the pulpit.


I've been in a lot of different churches of many different Christian denominations and never heard the pulpit used to denigrate other religions. Not being snarky, but has this been part of your experience?

39 FrogMarch  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:53:09am

re: #31 zombie

THANK YOU.

40 Iron Fist  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:53:12am
More than six years after September 11th, 2001, most Americans profess a general ignorance of Islam and often associate it with terrorism.


Could be that that is not ignorance, it is paying attention

41 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:53:19am

re: #30 savage_nation

You are doing the Lord's work.

Have they issued a fatwa to kill and behead the folks running that site for saying that they are not a religion of peace?

42 rwmofo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:53:20am

re: #35 jaunte

"A diverse Muslim community..."

What on earth does he mean by that?

He intends for Christians and Jews to submit to sharia law/customs.

43 lobosan5  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:54:47am

OK.....time for the PHOTO of the 'clitorectomy' of that 7 Yr old girl...that's FGM....

"Americans.... “associating Islam with terrorism,” "

FK them & all who think like them.....or....how about this:
[Link: www.homa.org...]

what the imams say on sex w/ animals & infants.....
no terrorism here.....move along....

44 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:54:54am

Re: 31:

that or that thing wrong = this or that thing wrong

Typo messed up my comment. Boo-hoo!

45 zmdavid  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:56:24am

Georgetown has a Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding
[Link: cmcu.georgetown.edu...]

46 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:56:50am

re: #44 zombie

Re: 31:

that or that thing wrong = this or that thing wrong

Typo messed up my comment. Boo-hoo!

heh,,,,,,,,,, my THOUGHTS usually mess up MINE !

47 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:57:13am

re: #37 zombie

See, you've fallen for the brainwash too!

It may have said "land-owning freemen," but it didn't specify their race.

People who have grown up in the educational system of the last 30 years have been so indoctrinated, it scares me.

And I'm only 20.

Scary, huh?

48 Blackacre  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:58:25am
More than six years after September 11th, 2001, most Americans ... often associate [Islam] with terrorism.

Gee, ya think?

As hard as the MSM and their ilk try to whitewash it, most Americans are willing to believe their lyin' eyes.

RoPMA

49 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:58:46am

re: #47 laZardo

And I'm only 20.

Scary, huh?

20 !?!?!?!?!?!? hell ,, I have things in my freezer older than 20 !

50 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 9:59:55am

re: #42 rwmofo

He intends for Christians and Jews to submit to sharia law/customs.

Hey Keith, I hope you are seeing this - Go fuck youself and your shitbox, hellbound, evil, vile, murderous, in the name of a child molesting, goat fucking, camel sucking loser, cult of destuction.
Did I miss anything?
Fuck them!

51 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:00:18am

re: #47 laZardo

And I'm only 20.

Scary, huh?

Ah, that explains much.

Do NOT trust what your teachers and professors tell you! They have an agenda to make you hate America and the free-market system. Even if they hide that agenda very cleverly.

Years from now, you will understand that you must UNlearn much of the thinking patterns you were taught in high school and college.

52 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:00:32am

re: #50 VegasRick

Hey Keith, I hope you are seeing this - Go fuck youself and your shitbox, hellbound, evil, vile, murderous, in the name of a child molesting, goat fucking, camel sucking loser, cult of destuction.
Did I miss anything?
Fuck them!

ummmm, you did send a donation, right ?

53 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:01:00am
54 Truck Monkey  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:01:15am

re: #45 zmdavid

Georgetown has a Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding
[Link: cmcu.georgetown.edu...]

Georgetown has taken a LOTof money from the Fraudi Arabians. It is actually more secular than catholic at this point.

55 JeremyR  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:01:23am

re: #31 zombie

In nearly every country in the world in 1776, men were the leaders and had most power in society. Women had less power. That's the way it was.

Never been married have ya? Its OK, one thing us guys learn after marriage is that wearing the pants is less important then getting into hers once in a while, and that an attitude of aplomb assures those times get to be fewer and farther between.

The true power of a woman? She gets to mold and train the next generation. Until now when that has been handed to surogates like Sesame Street.

56 zmdavid  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:03:28am

Isn't Georgetown where you go if you want to join the State Deparment?

57 realwest  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:03:33am

re: #31 zombie Superb comment!
I'd just add that the founding of America was done at a time when ALL the "civilized" societies in the world were MONARCHIES - where the leaders claimed they had been given the right to govern by GOD himself.
That the Founding Fathers fought a long, bloody war for an IDEAL - that the governed should do the governing - was heretical in the then "modern" world. And Ellison is just SO wrong about the Founding Fathers for that and all the other reasons you so eloquently stated.
And, of course, he not only fails to mention that and the matters you stated, but also fails to "notice"
how America has evolved as far as abolition of slavery, recognition of Women's rights etc. that we are indeed the MOST FREE NATION IN THE WORLD.
And Ellison is pimping for the MOST REPRESSIVE NATIONS IN THE WORLD.
POS.

58 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:03:36am

re: #51 zombie

Do NOT trust what your teachers and professors tell you! They have an agenda to make you hate America and the free-market system. Even if they hide that agenda very cleverly.

Years from now, you will understand that you must UNlearn much of the thinking patterns you were taught in high school and college.

Weird thing is that's what moonbats tell their kids. That the biased history books just aren't biased enough.

I'm working on unlearning those thinking patterns now...though it has resulted in a bit of double-disillusionment that has left me pretty faithless.

59 coquimbojoe  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:03:37am

re: #31 zombie

I agree. It shows a complete lack of historical knowledge on Ellison's part to say the Founding Father's cot it wrong on race. They classified slaves as 2/3 of a person to keep the congressional votes from the South down - so that Slavery would be contained.

Ellison should be ashamed of his ignorance, but I am sure he doesn't know what he doesn't know.

60 jaunte  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:04:35am

re: #42 rwmofo

He intends for Christians and Jews to submit to sharia law/customs.

Here's an example of the US muslim community's 'diversity':

"The first nationwide survey of Muslim Americans revealed that more than a quarter of those younger than 30 say suicide bombings to defend Islam are justified, a fact that drowned out the poll's kinder, gentler findings suggesting that the community is mainstream and middle class."

[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

61 Truck Monkey  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:04:59am

re: #56 zmdavid

Isn't Georgetown where you go if you want to join the State Deparment?

Just a short walk it is.

62 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:05:32am

re: #38 ec marm
While I am a Believer, I am not a church goer, so I really don't know what goes on in most churches. But it seems to me that there is a global holy war going on, and I just assumed that it would come to the attention of church leaders, and would be brought to the attention of their parishoners. But as I said, I really don't know what is taught from the pulpit in most churches.

JWM

63 stevieray  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:05:52am

Why can the average person see that Muslims are playing an enormous, worldwide game of "good cop, bad cop", yet our elites cannot or will not see this plain truth?

64 coquimbojoe  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:07:02am

re: #55 JeremyR

......one thing us guys learn after marriage is that wearing the pants is less important then getting into hers once in a while.

Speaking truth to power my man. I wonder if Charles would use that as a rotating title.....

65 JeremyR  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:07:11am

re: #63 stevieray

Why can the average person see that Muslims are playing an enormous, worldwide game of "good cop, bad cop", yet our elites cannot or will not see this plain truth?

Good cop Bad Cop? More like Bad cop and crooked reporter, " nothing to see here or report."

66 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:07:36am
67 realwest  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:09:34am

re: #63 stevieray Excellent point - I suspect very strongly that it is because the "elites" in this country include the MSM and the MSM is SO FAR LEFT that they can't see that which is right in front of them if it doesn't fit their "intellectual" ideals.
Thank God for the Internet.
Thank Charles Johnson for littlegreenfootballs.

68 realwest  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:11:08am

re: #58 laZardo If you read zombie's posts out here and, he says immodestly, my own #57, you'll start to lose that double disillusionment pretty quickly.

69 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:12:12am
“While the Founding Fathers got race all wrong and got gender all wrong, they got religion right.”

Ellison must be lying; as islam does not recognize the distinction between religion and government, the provision of the 1st amendment separating government from religion effectively outlaws islam in the USA, though the courts yet have to spell it out.

Or to say that it is not a religion, which it is not in any meaning intended by the founding fathers, who saw religion as a force for good.

Had there been any appreciable islamic presence in the colonies, islam would not be getting the free ride that it now gets in the USA, in my opinion.

But in a while, these things will be obvious to enough people, and we will kick the virus out.

70 BulgarWheat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:15:12am

re: #58 laZardo

that faithlessness you're describing is not any different than what pretty much everyone else has experienced here. It's normal, it's part of the growth process, and in the end that will be the cement that glues the foundation of your faith together.

No hurries. Question pretty much everything. In the end, you'll turn out just fine.

Just part of the process.

71 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:15:17am

re: #59 coquimbojoe

I agree. It shows a complete lack of historical knowledge on Ellison's part to say the Founding Father's cot it wrong on race. They classified slaves as 2/3 of a person to keep the congressional votes from the South down - so that Slavery would be contained.

But the key thing is, none of the mentions of slavery in the Constitution contain the word "black" or reference race at all. That's th point I'm trying to make. This search for the word "black" in an online searchable Constitution shows that there are no instances of the word in the Constitution itself --just the "annotations" to the document written by law professors.

72 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:16:22am

I would donate this advice to KE. If you try to push this false religion on me or my family, be prepared to start seething, roiting, killing, maiming, raping, bombing and all the other peaceful things that your shitbox of a religion says is fine to do when someone insults it. I will insult you, your cult and any members of it that I want to. Same as your right to insult me or my religion (I won't keel you for doing it BTW). Go fuck a goat, beat your wife, brainwash your children and kill your daughter for talking to a man. Oh, and I hope a dog (or a pig) pisses on your leg today.
Better?

73 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:16:59am

re: #31 zombie

This is a very common tactic that I see the left use to criticize everything from the founding to the crusades. The left always applies contemporary P/C standards to judge people and events in the recent or distant past. Historical perspective is conveniently forgotten if it can make the founders, or America, or Christians look good. In a similar vein, they always judge America by an unrealistic, and unattainable ideal of perfection, never by the reality of life on planet Earth. It's the old saying- the perfect is the enemy of the good.

JWM

74 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:17:42am

re: #72 VegasRick

Actually don't kill your daughter

75 Spiritualized  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:17:53am
On average, Muslims have higher educational and income levels than their fellow citizens.

Yeah, it's the same story in the UK. Some of them work in the medical profession, very noble!

45 Muslim doctors planned US terror raids

A group of 45 Muslim doctors threatened to use car bombs and rocket grenades in terrorist attacks in the United States during discussions on an extremist internet chat site.

Police found details of the discussions on a site run by one of a three-strong "cyber-terrorist" gang.

76 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:18:05am

re: #69 Ojoe

I have to disagree. There are many religions present in todays USA that had zero to very little presence in colonial days. The Bill of Rights as well as the Constitution make it possible for all of those and any in the future to either thrive or die of their own volition, not hindered or helped by the gov't.

77 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:18:07am

re: #74 Ojoe

Actually don't kill your daughter

Oops.

78 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:18:46am
79 Natasha  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:19:11am

VegasRick:

Go fuck a goat, beat your wife, brainwash your children and kill your daughter for talking to a man. Oh, and I hope a dog (or a pig) pisses on your leg today.

Better yet, let the pig or dog hump their leg, too!

80 Lobosan5  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:19:22am
Go fuck a goat, beat your wife, brainwash your children and kill your daughter for talking to a man. Oh, and I hope a dog (or a pig) pisses on your leg today.

second that.

81 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:19:58am

re: #78 savage_nation

ANOTHER plussie!

You're on a roll today, young man!

These folks piss me off.

82 coquimbojoe  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:20:15am

re: #71 zombie

Your point is well taken and made.

83 Clio  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:20:19am

re: #31 zombie

"In nearly every country in the world in 1776, men were the leaders and had most power in society. Women had less power. That's the way it was."


Statistically correct, but among the great powers of the day in 1776:
the ruler of the Russian Empire was named Catherine,
and the ruler of the Hapsburg Empire (Austria-Hungary-Bohemia etc.) was named Maria Theresa.

84 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:20:35am

re: #32 VegasRick

These people are full of themselves and full of shit.

You're being redundant!

85 pat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:20:48am

2 points:

No doubt Mr Ellison would make a far better Founding Father than the bunch we were stuck with. After all, one needs only examine Iran or Saudi Arabia to ascertain Mr Ellisons dream world. (Does he know that in Saudi Arabia the word for Negroe is 'slave', abed. As for Iran, there may be gays, but their surely are no blacks.)

Muslims keep insisting that 9/11 is an opportunity to study and then revere Muslims. This twisted logic is a product of American academia, but only an academic could accept the logic that the death of 3,000 innocents and the destruction of $2 B in property is a object lesson in the wonders of Islam.

86 Lobosan5  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:21:12am

Go fuck a goat, beat your wife, brainwash your children and kill your daughter for talking to a man. Oh, and I hope a dog (or a pig) pisses on your leg today.

second that.

& may your god bless you all very FAR!away.

87 stevieray  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:21:19am

It stopped raining here. I think I'll go dig in the garden for a while... got some planting to do. Fothergilla, ferns, and hellebores are calling my name.

I'm not in the mood to think about death and slavery [i.e. Islam and dhimmitude] today; I'd rather contemplate life and hope for a while.

Be back later.

88 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:21:22am

re: #76 sattv4u2

Yes but the founding fathers would not have countenanced the "free exercise" of "kill the infidels",

Is my point.

89 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:21:49am

re: #84 zombie

You're being redundant!

Good one!

90 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:22:23am

re: #70 BulgarWheat

Eh. I figure every Animal Farm needs a Benjamin to tell them "I told you so" every now and then.

91 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:23:05am

re: #83 Clio

Let us not forget Elizabeth Tudor, even further back in time.

"I will be master in my own house" — E.T.

92 Natasha  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:23:09am

#85 Pat

Muslims keep insisting that 9/11 is an opportunity to study and then revere Muslims

Muslims need to put down that crack pipe and get quiet in a hurry. Revere? Ha!

93 Ma Sands  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:23:50am

re: #51 zombie

That is so true........I wanted to homeschool my kids, but was prevented (long story).......so, to make up for it, I took my kids to school each day and picked them up, and often even walked some of them (had all 7 in the same building for several years....) to their classrooms, making it possible to have many on-the-spot conferences with the teachers......they knew what I believed, and that helped with how they approached and treated my kids, and I do believe it had ripple effects, too...............but, you are correct --my actions were mostly for observing's sake, and I unceasingly, at home, had to address what my children had heard and seen, too.....

94 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:24:09am

re: #83 Clio

"In nearly every country in the world in 1776, men were the leaders and had most power in society. Women had less power. That's the way it was."


Statistically correct, but among the great powers of the day in 1776:
the ruler of the Russian Empire was named Catherine,
and the ruler of the Hapsburg Empire (Austria-Hungary-Bohemia etc.) was named Maria Theresa.

Yes, but overall in society, men generally did run politics. Women occasionally acceeded to the throne if no male heir was available.

There has always been women monarchical leaders on occasion (i.e. Cleopatra, etc.). And yes, women usually "ruled the home." I'm talking about "running society" - i.e. almost all bureaucrats and lawmakers were men.

95 rwmofo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:24:41am

re: #72 VegasRick

OK VR. Go get some ice cream now. Ellison is what he is and we will NEVER submit.

96 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:24:41am
97 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:25:05am

re: #71 zombie

The same goes for the word "Negro," it seems.

/just to be sure...

98 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:25:24am

re: #95 rwmofo

OK VR. Go get some ice cream now. Ellison is what he is and we will NEVER submit.

Never.

99 coquimbojoe  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:25:51am

re: #72 VegasRick

I would donate this advice to KE. If you try to push this false religion on me or my family, be prepared to start seething, roiting, killing, maiming, raping, bombing and all the other peaceful things that your shitbox of a religion says is fine to do when someone insults it. I will insult you, your cult and any members of it that I want to. Same as your right to insult me or my religion (I won't keel you for doing it BTW). Go fuck a goat, beat your wife, brainwash your children and kill your daughter for talking to a man. Oh, and I hope a dog (or a pig) pisses on your leg today.
Better?

Its another beautiful day in Paradise here. You need a little fresh air.....;-). I had on of the same types of moments about 9 months back. Unfortunately or fortunately, I got deleted.

100 Natasha  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:25:55am

Hi savage!
LOL

101 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:26:51am

re: #37 zombie

See, you've fallen for the brainwash too!

It may have said "land-owning freemen," but it didn't specify their race.

People who have grown up in the educational system of the last 30 years have been so indoctrinated, it scares me.

The enemy within.

102 BulgarWheat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:26:53am

re: #90 laZardo

among the founding fathers was a Benjamin who did exactly that. Kick 'em in the balls.

103 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:27:02am
104 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:27:38am

re: #58 laZardo

I empathize with you, dear. I remember going through a similar awakening. It was rough. Suddenly everything I read and thought had to be double- and triple-checked. It took about ten years to re-form a inner foundation for thinking, everyday behavior and play. It can be done, though. In fact, it MUST be done. This is your charge. Your mission. You must filter through information, ponder assumptions and biases (including your own) and then slowly rebuild.

My sincere best to you.

105 pat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:27:43am

BTW, black males were routinely castrated prior to sale in Arabia, Persia, and Turkey. So as not contaminate society. A little tidbit on the treatment of blacks by Islam.
[Link: debate.org.uk...]

106 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:28:17am
107 ec marm  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:28:49am

re: #62 JWM

While I am a Believer, I am not a church goer, so I really don't know what goes on in most churches. But it seems to me that there is a global holy war going on, and I just assumed that it would come to the attention of church leaders, and would be brought to the attention of their parishoners. But as I said, I really don't know what is taught from the pulpit in most churches.

JWM


I'm just afraid that a lot of people may see the images of the rev. wright preaching the words of Malcolm X, or about islam, inside of a "Christian" church and get the impression that this is a common occurrence. The rev. wright and obama's church is an aberration in every sense of the word.
Most Christian churches I've ever attended seem to stay within a timeline of about 10,000 BC to about 100 AD.

108 yochanan  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:28:50am

MUSLIM TERRORIST DOC. get into america because we have no need for goat hurds and humpers

109 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:29:02am

re: #97 laZardo

The same goes for the word "Negro," it seems.

/just to be sure...

Good! You checked yourself!

Now I'm proud of you. Don't trust people!

110 Natasha  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:29:06am

#103 savage
Doing OK... Stuck in differential equation hell, while it's beautiful outside and I am tempted to take the Eeeevil Rice-Burnin' Rocket O'Doom™ out for a spin.

111 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:30:44am
112 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:31:16am
113 grumpy old codger  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:31:47am

re: #27 JWM
Maybe we could have her go to Trinity UCC so she could learn.

114 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:31:49am

re: #99 coquimbojoe

Its another beautiful day in Paradise here. You need a little fresh air.....;-). I had on of the same types of moments about 9 months back. Unfortunately or fortunately, I got deleted.

What did I post that is not true.

115 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:31:50am

re: #104 hermeneutics

I empathize with you, dear. I remember going through a similar awakening. It was rough. Suddenly everything I read and thought had to be double- and triple-checked. It took about ten years to re-form a inner foundation for thinking, everyday behavior and play. It can be done, though. In fact, it MUST be done. This is your charge. Your mission. You must filter through information, ponder assumptions and biases (including your own) and then slowly rebuild.

My sincere best to you.

Holy shit. How long were you in Room 101? LOL.

/thanks for the encouragement anyway

116 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:32:12am

re: #109 zombie

I don't trust humanity in general. n.=.n

117 J.S.  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:32:17am

re: #11 zombie

"Tell me where gender is mentioned in the Constitution."

When these deviants and despisers of the United States wish to "argue" they use the Jefferson's phrase (from the Declaration of Independence) "all men were created equal." And then attack Jefferson (one of the Founding Fathers) on the grounds that "men" was not being used "generically" to mean "all people", but was referring only to males. (The haters then claim that women did not have a right to vote or hold office until 1920). The haters also maintain that Jefferson had slaves, thus contradicting the "all men are created equal" provision. With respect to the slavery issue, btw, most historians give Jefferson credit for the expression of an ideal -- perhaps late in realization, but nonetheless Jefferson himself recognized the dilemma. But, of course, history is not of any interest at all to those who look for evil in the founding of the United States. Thus, in Obama's so-called "race" speech (which was heralded in the MSM as something akin to a speech by Lincoln), one hears that (according to Obama, as with Ellison) the U.S. Constitution "was stained by this nation's original sin of slavery." (I don't even want to address the problems with this obscene form of thinking -- but I do find it literally disgusting.)

Anyway, to counter the despisers of America, I would like to know which country these people believe led the way in terms of Women's Suffrage or the Emancipation of Slaves? Which country? It can only be one -- and that is, The United States of America. And it is because of what is contained in the Declaration of Independence and in the U.S. Constitution (the First Ten Amendments, etc). (The center of the Women's Suffrage movement was in the United States of America at the turn of the century. Consider, by contrast, that Saudi Arabia has YET to allow universal suffrage for women. And with respect to slavery -- in many Arab countries, slave auction blocks still exist -- to this day, you can see where slaves are bought and sold -- still exists to this day. So if Hussein and his other Arab buddies wish to point out "original sins", I suggest they go look to the Arab/Muslim world -- there's plenty of work to be done in those locales. How about a little "liberation" for women and slaves in Arab lands, eh?)

118 Lobosan5  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:33:39am

re: #87 stevieray

I am planting 'gone by' easter lilies....the rain is almost here....& God is merciful. Things are never what they appear to be.......it was decided before time.....the devil doesn't win. Happy Planting!Amigo.

119 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:36:05am

LaZardo,

If you want to talk to a grown-up who's been through hell and back over similar issues, feel free to email me.

I'm a mom.
A nerd.
And completely supportive of college-age kids.

Like you.

And there are others here who can be equally, if not more, supportive. Just come back here whenever you need to rethink. Tell us whatever is troubling you or doesn't seem quite right. We'll help you sort it out.

120 JeremyR  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:36:16am

re: #71 zombie

But the key thing is, none of the mentions of slavery in the Constitution contain the word "black" or reference race at all. That's th point I'm trying to make. This search for the word "black" in an online searchable Constitution shows that there are no instances of the word in the Constitution itself --just the "annotations" to the document written by law professors.

The first slaves brought here were whites taken from the debtors prisons in Europe. White slaves were not as uncommon as some would like to believe.
For many of the African Slaves, slavery here was the repealing of a death sentence. Most of them were on the losing side in a fight, and the options were death or being sold into slavery. Thankfully for most of our African Americans, The winners opted for greed and so their great grandfathers were spared possibly a most horrible death.
Our founding fathers recognized that any one cold be a slave. Frankly, slavery is still legal in the United States. Now however the slaves can only be convicts. I for one would opt for that as opposed to what our criminal justice system is doing now. I'm not sure which is worse, no punishment (probation) or advanced criminla training (incarceration with seasoned professionals).
Maybe if we had some sort of work camp system where they replaced the migrant melon harvesters, it could help.

121 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:36:40am

re: #117 J.S.

Britain emancipated their slaves in 1833. They outlawed the trade twenty-something years prior.

/took a long time to get things done back then.

122 Lobosan5  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:37:00am

re: #104 hermeneutics

it was called 'un-schooling'.....big in the home-schooling movement.
[Link: www.holtgws.com...]

123 grumpy old codger  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:37:17am

re: #54 Truck Monkey

Not uncommon in Catholic education nowadays. I remember when the Archbishop of Philadelphia forbade any of his diocesan clergy from going to summer sessions at Notre Dame. He claimed it was the best protestant school in the country.

124 pat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:37:52am

re: #111 savage_nation

holy CRAP!

Yeah, and that is only a sliver of my library on the treatment of blacks by Islam.

125 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:40:08am

re: #88 Ojoe

Yes but the founding fathers would not have countenanced the "free exercise" of "kill the infidels",

Is my point.

they would have only stepped in if and when the rhetoric reached deadly proportions ,, and then only to the individuals that were breaking the law ,, not the entire religion

126 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:40:54am
127 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:41:12am

re: #120 JeremyR

I think we've been missing a bet and should be using prisoners as laborers to pick crops.

128 BulgarWheat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:41:36am

re: #116 laZardo

Question everything, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with Zombies statement to trust no one.

I've met what society might call poor people who would, literally give you the shirt off of their back and expect nothing in return. There are genuinely good people in this world. Learning how to spot them, however, is not a science. Trust your gut.

You are years, in my humble estimation, ahead of your peers.

129 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:41:54am

re: #122 Lobosan5

Yea, I remember the unschooling movement. Its still going on, by the way, with mostly non-religious homeschoolers. I like aspects of it, but how do you learn MATH, for example?

I pulled my three kids out of school, BTW. Hired tutors. I teach too, when I can. But they've got regular math and science books. Some of the best books are older. My younger son -- 12 -- uses a trig book from the 1970s. No pictures. No colors. No sidebars. No propoganda. Just math.

130 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:42:16am

re: #119 hermeneutics

Lemme just finish grumbling over this article I saw on CNN International yesterday about these "male host clubs" in Japan where boys my age get paid literally THOUSANDS of dollars to look like this and compliment working women.

/seriously, just hanging out!

131 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:42:23am

re: #107 ec marm
Odd, I hadn't thought of Obama's Rev, Wright in this context, but it is a case (bad case) in point. I do remember attending an Episcopal service back in the early 80's that featured a guest sermon by a fellow named Blaise Bompaine, (sp?) a former Roman Catholic priest who was a pretty rabid liberation theologist, and stridently anti-American. He used the puplit to excoriate Reagan's actions in Nicaragua, and it was less a sermon than a lecture on politics.
Actually, keeping the material for sermons within the timeline that you described makes a great deal of sense to me. That, to my thinking, would build a spiritual foundation that should do quite well to shape one's beliefs and opinions in and of the contemporary world.
As for the jihad, I am still rather surprised that it would get no mention, or would not come up somewhere in the discussion of applying the ancient teachings to life in the world today.

JWM

132 BulgarWheat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:42:36am

re: #121 laZardo

no internet back then. no bloggers either

133 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:43:21am

re: #132 BulgarWheat

no internet back then. no bloggers either

but there were lizards ,,,, just no place like this for them to gather

134 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:43:24am
135 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:43:25am

re: #128 BulgarWheat

Being "years ahead of my peers" is probably what put me in this rather cynical little position. Quite frankly I've had enough of "good and evil" and just want to make the most out of life before I kick the bucket.

136 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:44:44am

re: #132 BulgarWheat

no internet back then. no bloggers either

Back in those days, we'd type our comments and hang them on spider webs. Some of us in select groups hit upon the name: Web-logs.

137 zombie  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:45:00am

re: #121 laZardo

Actually, the first country to free its slaves was Haiti, in 1805 -- they had a rebellion, kicked out the French plantation owners, and declared themselves free.

In Brazil, on the other hand, they still had slavery as late as 1887 or so.

Like you said, things took a long time to happen back then.

People forget that black Africans had been enslaved by the Arabs starting in the 7th or 8th century, and then by the Portuguese starting in the 15th century (the first European country to do so). The 19th century was the "emancipation century." Nowadays the 19th century is regarded as the epitome of evil, but it actually was the culmination of egalitarianism, and was the BEST time for slaves, because it was the time they were finally freed.

138 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:45:04am

re: #114 VegasRick

What did I post that is not true.

Okay, I guess I am not going to get an answer to my question.

139 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:45:54am

re: #137 zombie

I didn't say Britain was the first. ;) Just wanted to counter the long-held assumption that America was.

140 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:49:01am

re: #137 zombie

Actually, the first country to free its slaves was Haiti, in 1805 -- they had a rebellion, kicked out the French plantation owners, and declared themselves free.

In Brazil, on the other hand, they still had slavery as late as 1887 or so.

Like you said, things took a long time to happen back then.

People forget that black Africans had been enslaved by the Arabs starting in the 7th or 8th century, and then by the Portuguese starting in the 15th century (the first European country to do so). The 19th century was the "emancipation century." Nowadays the 19th century is regarded as the epitome of evil, but it actually was the culmination of egalitarianism, and was the BEST time for slaves, because it was the time they were finally freed.

They also seem to forrget that it was the Africans themselves that "SOLD" their feelow countrymen to the Europeans ,, How can you "SELL" something you don't own ? ANSWER ,, uyou can't, hence it was the Africans themselves that owened slaves !

(you shoudl see the drool on my liberal freinds lips when I remind them of this lil tidbit)

141 laZardo  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:49:52am

It's damn near 2 AM and I has to sleep. I have Monday off but I've got quite a bit of stuff to do before college gets back on Tuesday. Nighty all!

142 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:50:14am
143 JeremyR  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:50:27am

re: #127 debutaunt

I think we've been missing a bet and should be using prisoners as laborers to pick crops.

Have them do the jobs most Americans won't do. LOL.

144 SF4Life  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:51:28am

Once again, we are seeing the influence being purchased by the $20 million donated by Saudis to Georgetown Univ. Who says money doesn't talk.
And remember, the Washington Post has made an effort to hire more Muslims to screen the writing so as not to offend Islam.

145 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:52:14am

re: #142 savage_nation

My best to conservgirly! I enjoy chatting with her. She can't come online?

146 J.S.  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:52:17am

re: #121 laZardo

I've heard those "arguments" about the "wonders" of the Brits (I'm not impressed.) The slave trade continued (even though "on paper" documents had been signed) with the British sailing fleets making lots and lots of profit. The "emancipation" done by Brits was no where near to that of what Lincoln accomplished...

147 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:53:45am

re: #143 JeremyR

Have them do the jobs most Americans won't do. LOL.

Sure, pay your debt to society in a way that makes sense to me.

148 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:54:27am
149 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:55:10am

re: #135 laZardo

Being "years ahead of my peers" is probably what put me in this rather cynical little position. Quite frankly I've had enough of "good and evil" and just want to make the most out of life before I kick the bucket.


Sorry, my friend. But you did not choose the battle, the battle chose you. Like it or not you've been drafted into the Greatest War. Your weapon is Truth. Wield it well, and wisely. You, the individual may fall, but Truth is invincible. As Confucius said :

A gentleman can be broken but not bent, deceived, but not led astray.

Welcome to the Lizard Nation.

JWM

150 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:55:55am

re: #148 savage_nation

Don't get her in trouble if she's at work, or something like that. Or, at play. Play is important.

That's why I'm here. Playtime!

151 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:56:46am
152 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:56:55am

So, does anybody have something super-duper fascinating to throw out for discussion?

153 ec marm  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:56:58am

re: #137 zombie
This isn't about slavery, but you might enjoy this Wiki I just came across. The 'progressive' French allowed women to vote in 1945.

There's some funny stuff in there.
Like New Jersey allowed women to vote in 1776 but rescinded it in 1807. Note the islamic countries at the end.

154 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:57:22am

re: #151 savage_nation

Speed?

155 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:58:22am
156 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:58:25am

re: #152 hermeneutics

So, does anybody have something super-duper fascinating to throw out for discussion?

Umm- I bought a new Gundam toy yesterday. Does that qualify?

Anyone?


I didn't think so.

JWM

157 pat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:58:48am
#126 savage_nation 4/06/08 10:40:54 am reply quote report 0

re: #124 pat

Yeah, and that is only a sliver of my library on the treatment of blacks by Islam.

what does the NOI think of that? Or are they considered infidels too according to Wahabbists?

In fact the Saudi consider the NOI heretics. But I believe that they are buying their way in and intend to take over when Farakahn dies. BTW, most NOI members are ill-educated thugs that are blind to the truth. Sort of like Rev Wright. Delusional. Fortunately the NOI offers such a poor model that most blacks prefer Christianity or agnosticism.

158 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:58:55am
159 BulgarWheat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:59:11am

re: #139 laZardo

I've never been under that impression. I can't ever remember anyone saying that America was the first to ban slavery.

160 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 10:59:49am

re: #155 savage_nation

65 mph, its 503 miles to Batavia IL from Lincoln NE

But no more snow, I hope!

161 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:00:32am

re: #153 ec marm

That's really interesting. I'm surprised at how many countries gave women the vote at about the same time, early 20th century.

It would be interesting to juxtapose this on another metric of when men, universally, got the vote in these countries. Voting, historically, is a very recent phenomena. Except Athens. Well, maybe not.

162 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:00:44am
163 JeremyR  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:00:50am

re: #147 debutaunt

Sure, pay your debt to society in a way that makes sense to me.

It beats the heck out of them filling endless hours figgerin out how to be better (worse) criminals.
Our criminal justice system has gone down the tubes. Its "department of corrections" now. What? there was a typo? Something misspelled? We need to get back to the idea of punishment for the criminals. Make it harsh, short, as in long enough to give them a reason to repent, and swift.
Do I dare post my ideas for how to handle criminals?

164 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:01:04am

Holy cow- it's 11:00 AM, and I haven't been out of the house yet. See y'all later.

JWM

165 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:01:24am

re: #152 hermeneutics

So, does anybody have something super-duper fascinating to throw out for discussion?

I kinda got the impression here yesterday that Stinky might actually be shhhhhhhhh Charles.

166 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:01:29am
167 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:01:40am

re: #162 savage_nation

Damn well better not be! aarh!

aarh !?!?!?!?! what is this ,, Talk Like A Pirate Day #2 !?!?!?!?

168 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:02:39am

Charles is stinky? Wait, wrong way -- Stinky is Charles?

Come on. Spill all. What gives you this impression?

169 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:02:59am
170 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:03:17am
171 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:03:42am

re: #168 hermeneutics

Charles is stinky? Wait, wrong way -- Stinky is Charles?

Come on. Spill all. What gives you this impression?

Well, they've never been seen in the same room together, for one.

JWM

172 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:04:27am
173 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:04:59am

re: #163 JeremyR

It beats the heck out of them filling endless hours figgerin out how to be better (worse) criminals.
Our criminal justice system has gone down the tubes. Its "department of corrections" now. What? there was a typo? Something misspelled? We need to get back to the idea of punishment for the criminals. Make it harsh, short, as in long enough to give them a reason to repent, and swift.
Do I dare post my ideas for how to handle criminals?

Be careful.

At the very least, they should be picking crops. Two problems solved.

174 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:05:29am

re: #172 savage_nation

That's hysterical. I'm sorta stunned after all the hoopla about sockpuppets.

175 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:06:26am

re: #174 hermeneutics hey hermy! How are you? Did Savage send my regards?

How did son do in NORBA?

176 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:06:36am

Jeremy. I want to hear your ideas for handling criminals.

177 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:06:36am

re: #168 hermeneutics

Charles is stinky? Wait, wrong way -- Stinky is Charles?

Come on. Spill all. What gives you this impression?

Charles was asked how much longer it would take to get his new computer "migrated" and Stinky answered!

178 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:06:40am
179 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:07:03am
180 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:07:08am

re: #175 conservgirl

HI CONSERVGIRLY,

Yes, he did. Are you supposed to be at work? Play?

181 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:07:51am

re: #85 pat

Your point 2:

Muslims keep insisting that 9/11 is an opportunity to study and then revere Muslims. This twisted logic is a product of American academia, but only an academic could accept the logic that the death of 3,000 innocents and the destruction of $2 B in property is a object lesson in the wonders of Islam.

The designers of the world's largest mosque apparently accept such logic also, along with many in our government.

182 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:08:42am

I just got the phone call from my son. He "podiumed" but not in the top three. He's disappointed but he'll survive. He wants to make the olympic cycling team, the U-23 team.

He's too young now -- just turned 17 -- but maybe in his early twenties.

183 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:08:57am

re: #180 hermeneutics


I work out of my house, I am in medical sales. I just had a little report to do. How are you this fine day?

184 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:09:24am
185 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:09:27am

re: #179 savage_nation


hey savage! Where you off to this week?

186 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:09:58am
187 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:09:59am
188 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:11:19am

re: #183 conservgirl

I'm being utterly lazy. Should be writing. NO excuses for my sloth. The guilt will catch up with me later today.

189 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:11:31am

re: #182 hermeneutics


Wow Hermy, it sounds like you have an impressive young man that you have raised. I can't wait for him to make it and then I can say, I know his mother!

My husband got crawfish yesterday, 20lbs and ate the stew out of them while listening to Ole MIss baseball. Thought about NO and our tea trip! You must let me know if you ever come to that area. I think High tea would be fun.

190 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:12:11am

re: #187 savage_nation
What you delivering?

191 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:12:32am
192 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:12:48am
193 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:13:10am

re: #190 conservgirl

What you delivering?

a 500 mile trail of deisel exhaust

194 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:13:16am

re: #188 hermeneutics


Well you were trying to help your son study right? So you deserve a little break. Are you a big university or a smaller one? I would love to be able to teach like you. That's so impressive to me.

195 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:13:53am

re: #186 buzzsawmonkey

ohhhh, I have much to say about Wallis. First, he's an uber lib, the originator of Sojourners magazine. ON the cover of the first issue, the flag is desecrated.

For years and years he predicted the scattering of evangelical voters who have voted the R ticket since the mid-1970s. Instead, they've remained in the R column, much to his dismay.

He claims to be evangelical because that's his heritage, but he fits better in the NCC/WCC crowd. He hangs there anyway.

196 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:14:42am
197 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:14:47am

re: #192 savage_nation
Oh, from NE that makes sense. I once leased a truck to Pillsbury, they made the muffins at the plant in murfreesboro, TN. There was blueberries from the top to the bottom of the trailer, we had to get a special company to clean that blue goo.

198 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:15:57am

re: #189 conservgirl

Dumb question -- where does one catch crawfish? Ocean?

199 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:16:17am
200 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:16:23am

re: #195 hermeneutics
I now know who you are talking about. He's trouble allright.

201 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:17:31am
202 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:17:41am

re: #199 savage_nation
It was considered hazardous for some reason, not sure why. So I can't remember who cleaned it .

203 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:18:09am

re: #194 conservgirl

I not teaching now. Quit my last job. Home teaching teenagers and trying to finish up three books, one of which is pretty much done but ... I just can't seem to wrap it up. Thus, the guilt. If I'm not teaching, then I'd better do something useful with my life. In my case, its writing.

204 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:18:43am

re: #201 savage_nation

Drive safely, Savage. Be good.

205 JeremyR  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:18:52am

re: #166 savage_nation

The chain gang is a good start.

LOL!
I am opposed to life sentences. What good are they? you turn the person into a caged animal. No reason to rehabilitate, nothing to better them self for. They slide down hill and become truly reprehensible. I am of the opinion that term sentences should be twenty years max with a twenty five year total. If we cannot punish them in that length of time, we may as well kill them.
I am pro capital punishment. I favor hanging, and make it public, or if not public, at least mandate that it be attended by criminals; "Watch boys what WILL become of you if you chose not to rehabilitate your sorry selves". I would allow lethal injection only if the perp waives all appeals and is executed withi 48 hours of sentencing.
I support death as mandatory for all 1st and 2nd degree murder, for forcible rape, and for child molesters. The list Moses gave us still works.
I wold also execute any prisoner who riots or escapes more then once.
Prison over crowding would mean that we cannot squeeze another perp into the cell and have them all inhale at once.
Make them work. No workie no eatie.
Suicide watch in prison means exactly that, the guards watch. They don't interfere, they just watch.... and enjoy popcorn.
Luxuries? One book but it must be a religious text, Bible, Koran or something like that. work out? If they have the energy to work out, they need more chores. Food? base it on RDA needs and thats it. no consideration as to taste. They can choose to starve if it upsets their pate.
Am I mean? YUP!

206 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:19:29am

re: #198 hermeneutics
Bayou. There may be crawfish in the ocean but highly doubtful.

No they were not considered edible until the mid 20th century. La marketed them for some income and an industry and culture was born. I am not a fan, but Hop is.

207 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:20:34am

re: #205 JeremyR

I happen to agree with you. The penal system in America is a joke.

208 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:20:59am

re: #205 JeremyR

Okay, Jeremy. What about legalizing drugs -- like alcohol -- and reducing the prison population. What do you think of that? My hunch is that it would also take away the income of many inner-city hellholes.

209 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:21:53am

COnserv, I promise to call next time I'm coming through ... and you must promise to call if you're driving 10 through phoenix. Okay? Tea it will be.

210 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:22:11am

re: #203 hermeneutics
I bet you are a great writer. I would love to read your books. What do you write about, Hermeneutics? I mean the subject of Hermeneutics or theories associated with said theories.

211 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:22:45am

re: #209 hermeneutics
Yea! Your nic is blue, I will email you shortly.

212 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:23:24am

re: #201 savage_nation
Bye Savage. Hope you have a good week!

213 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:24:43am

Actually, I don't write on hermeneutics at all! Got a degree in it, that's all. It makes sense to have that nic when we spend so much time analyzing texts written in the MSM and other sources.

I can't talk about what I write here, online, because I don't want to be known. Yet. When this book comes out, I may ask my fellow lizards for some book reviews. I think they'll like it. POLITICS. Shhhhhh.

214 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:27:14am

re: #213 hermeneutics

Well I will certainly read it. Count on me!

215 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:27:24am

re: #117 J.S.

...
Anyway, to counter the despisers of America, I would like to know which country these people believe led the way in terms of Women's Suffrage or the Emancipation of Slaves? Which country? It can only be one -- and that is, The United States of America.
...

I believe there's something in the Torah and/or Old Testament about emancipating slaves after seven years or so of service. England passed some legislation that placed some limitations on slavery before 1300AD. See also Amazing Grace.

216 JeremyR  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:28:02am

re: #208 hermeneutics

Okay, Jeremy. What about legalizing drugs -- like alcohol -- and reducing the prison population. What do you think of that? My hunch is that it would also take away the income of many inner-city hellholes.

My take on the constitution, and the one originally held by the SCOTUS is that it is not constitutional to regulate it. From practical experience, I think we need to keep a handle on them. Look at what happens with crack and meth users. They become the worst form of persons. True degenerates.
For most drug crimes though, imprisonment is not the answer. Work camps would serve society better. They could be put to work in their own community, or farmed out as needed. We could be using them to rebuild places like New Orleans, Greensburg and Caruthersville. They could be repaying the society they have stepped on rather then wasting away in prisons. For dealers, a three strikes law needs to aply. Air walks for Crack!
Yup, I'm still mean.

217 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:28:59am

Okay, the guilt has overwhelmed me. I'm going to write now. Email me, please, girly.

Later Lizards. There's a new thread, by the way.

218 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:29:25am
219 hermeneutics  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:33:24am

re: #216 JeremyR
Oh, before I leave I want to answer Jeremy. I'm slowly morphing toward legalizing all drugs. Legalize and control, like alcohol.

I spent a few months in New Orleans in the Bywater, a criminally infested place but still interesting. It was a wakeupcall for me. I had no idea the degree to which drugs formed the economic foundation of these subcultures. If we decriminalized it, the street value would plummet. The losers who push drugs would have to find new sources of income. Who knows what they'd do, but at least they wouldn't have drug money.

Your meanness is tough love -- what society's used to do when they were close and tight. They rejected the criminals. THere was a social price to pay -- exclusion.

220 conservgirl  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:35:08am

re: #217 hermeneutics
I have, got to run too. Write back when you have time!

221 JeremyR  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:45:38am

re: #219 hermeneutics

The problems I see deal with how the users finance their habits. I have had so many thefts that tie directly to druggies. recently a house we are remodeling was stripped of all th copper pipe by vandals.
A friend lost quite a few radiators from his fleet of trucks.
The users steal because they are too far gone to work in many cases.

222 sparrowlake  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:49:03am
On average, Muslims have higher educational and income levels than their fellow citizens.

Then why are they so effin' ungrateful and disloyal to their country and why do they act like such ignorant, uncivilzed barbarians?
Just askin.

223 Natasha  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:49:05am

#219 hermeneutics:

I'm slowly morphing toward legalizing all drugs. Legalize and control, like alcohol.

What we see happening with drugs is very similar to what was happening in connection with alcohol under Prohibition. And I appear to be moving along the same line of thought as you concerning legalization.
There is a real QUAGMIRE™-- War On Drugs!

224 cookielady  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:50:24am
On average, Muslims have higher educational and income levels than their fellow citizens.

According to whom? The same statistic-twisters that say there are eleventy-million mohammedans in this country? They just make cr*p up and say it with a straight face.

Musta got that from the NYT...

225 Morganfrost  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 11:51:32am
More than six years after September 11th, 2001, most Americans profess a general ignorance of Islam and often associate it with terrorism.

Which is it? If they associate it with terrorism, they're obviously not all that ignorant about it.

226 sparrowlake  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 12:00:32pm

re: #224 cookielady

They just make cr*p up and say it with a straight face.
Musta got that from the NYT...

That's what they learn to do from their higher education, and that's how they earn higher than average income too - all by lying, cheating and having absolutely no regard for the truth.

227 darkster2400  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 12:18:13pm

re: #29 Tumulus11

like the Jews are supposed to get over the Holocaust.

228 J.S.  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 12:20:21pm

re: #215 abolitionist

Hebrew slaves were freed on the "Jubilee" year (every 50 years). (The greatest document ever written, imo, on liberation, freedom, etc., is Exodus).

Slightly O/T...I tend to think of hard drug use as a form of slavery...and, I personally, would not like to see its use increased or encouraged. I think the "legalization" mantra looks good on paper - but if you go to places in which the government has all but legalized the practice of drug use-- it is not good (consider East-side Vancouver or Copenhagen...violent crime, disease (HIV aids), prostitution and poverty still flourish, in fact, there seems to be a definite correlation between "liberalizing" the notion of drug use and a rise in social ills.)

229 darkster2400  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 12:20:58pm

re: #21 Alouette

I don't know what happened on Sept. 11 - all I know is that my Rabbi told me to stay home from work at the World Trade Centre - oops - wasn't supposed to let that out of the bag

230 Timbre  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 12:22:40pm

The Second Chance Act of 2007, to be signed by President Bush this Wednesday, eliminates the Bureau of Prisons' Standardized Chapel Library program, which was the only lawful method available to root out radicalized literature and media--including Jihadist material--from all federal prison chapel libraries which had been purchased with appropriated funds or accepted as donations by the various Wardens.

231 darkster2400  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 12:26:12pm

the more I read LGF stories of this sort, the more I am convinced that North America (I'm in Canada) better wake up soon and smell the hummus before Melanie Phillips can write Ottawa-istan and Washington-istan as sequels to Londonistan .

232 J.S.  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 12:32:46pm

re: #231 darkster2400

I agree. There's already a journalist in Montreal who's written a book called "Montrealistan" -- here's a link about it..

233 nyc redneck  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 12:37:26pm

dialogue w/ islam is abt. the west shutting up and listening to these barbarians lecture us on how we should accommodate their every demand. talking to these people is of no benefit to us. we should just monitor their behavior and prepare . and i don't trust moslem congressman keith ellison as far as i could throw him.

234 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 12:48:47pm

re: #228 J.S.To me, it's all about which drugs are legalized, and which are not. The vast majority of illegal drug use is marijuana smoking. If pot were legalized then the vast majority of drug enforcement would be unnecessary. That would free up a huge chunk of the DEA budget, and a huge chunk of police time, and court time as well. That time could be better spent chasing down the meth trade. Too, as long as marijuana is a black market item, then the people who are shopping for weed are in the same marketplace where meth, coke, and heroin can be found. And when anti-drug "education" puts pot, on the same level with hard drugs, a kid who is curious enough to experiment, will not discriminate between hard dope and soft.
Actually, anti-drug "education" is one of my pet peeves. I work in a school system, and I see this heavy handed propaganda shoved down the throats of children who are far too young to understand the concept of altering their consciouness at all. Anti-drug week for 1st through 4th graders? It's tantamount to teaching alternative sexual lifestyles to todlers. I'm going to stop before I get on a full scale rant.

JWM

235 Timbre  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 1:23:15pm

re: #234 JWM

I like the economics of your argument, but not the reality. Legalizing marijuana will easily mean 2-3 times the number of under-the-influence car accidents and deaths. Drunk driving is already a plague in this country. Stoned driving -- which from what I've read can result from just one marijuana joint -- is the last thing we need.

236 BulgarWheat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 1:28:00pm

re: #235 Timbre

Timbre....he makes a good point. Were it not for William Randolph Hearst we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

People continue to drive both stoned and drunk. Your proposal changes nothing at all.

237 Timbre  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 1:33:05pm

re: #236 BulgarWheat

First, my comments were not a proposal--just a maintenance of the status quo. Second, the legalization of pot will cause an increase in the number of users and, thus, the number of injuries and death. I will not accept your implicit proposition that everyone who wants to toke is already doing so. There are a lot of people who don't commit crime because they don't want to "do the time," or pay the fine.

238 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 1:43:20pm

re: #235 Timbre
Actually, one whole joint is a substantial buzz for several people, and I agree, that driving under the influence is never a good idea.
But I'll go out on a limb here- I think the laws against drunk driving have become too draconian. In many states, Ca included, the amount of alcohol in your system that will rate a DUI is miniscule. One drink/beer for a 150 lb man will put you there. You can decide for yourself how impaired you actually are after one drink.
And a pot buzz is not like drunkenness. I don't have statistics, but I have done plenty of booze, and plenty of weed in my time, and I can tell you that driving with a mild pot buzz is less dangerous than driving slightly drunk. A pot buzz tends to make you very cautious, while a booze buzz tends to make you reckless. Again- I draw a distinction between driving home hours after a couple of tokes, or beers, and getting in the car shitfaced.

JWM

239 Tigger2005  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 1:58:58pm

re: #71 zombie

But you should search for "Negro" or "Africans," not "black," zombie. Those are the terms they would have used then, if they did mention black people in the Constitution.

Not saying either of those terms appear in the Constitution, either ...

240 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 1:59:21pm

And I'll go a step further as far as the "Increased deaths and accidents" argument. You will never, ever as long as people exist, eliminate the risk inherent in life. Despite all the laws against it, people still drive high. People will still do stupid stuff. People will cause accidents, and people will die in them. For the sake of clarity, here, I'll repeat: Driving under the influence is never a good idea, and it should remain illegal.
*true story*
I remember a special ed. kid I worked with many years ago. He wanted to have a pet dolphin. I asked him where he'd keep the dolphin, and he said, "In the bathtub."
"But, Dave," I said, "a dolphin wouldn't be happy in a bathtub. Dolphins like the ocean where they can swim all day, and go wherever they want."
"But the ocean is dangerous," was his reply. "If the dolphin is in the ocean then a shark could get him. In my bathtub, he'd always be safe, and I could take care of him all the time."

I don't want to be a dolphin in a bathtub.

JWM

241 J.S.  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 2:10:10pm

re: #234 JWM

Here in Canada a distinction is made (this is with marijuana) between outright legalizing marijuana and de-criminalizing marijuana. Right now, marijuana use is de-criminalized (typically speaking) -- so, if you're caught with a small amount, you may face a small fine (similar to a traffic ticket) -- if, on the other hand, you're a drug dealer and selling/distributing large quantities of marijuana or, say, operating a "grow-op" -- then, if caught, you'll face a prison sentence. So, it's "nuanced" here with respect to marijuana...(Personally, I don't want to see even marijuana outright legalized. The reason? Well, I think there would be "marijuana" bars opening up -- then, you'd have all the same problems as with alcohol -- plus, where would the hard-drug pushers show up? at the marijuana bars...I don't think we need this, as a society.) With respect to education in drug use/abuse -- I am in agreement with you -- if it's done too early, or too heavy-handedly, then I think it's problematic (it causes children to become curious and, it could also just as easily "educate" children about "how to use," etc.) ...I think drug education should be left until the high school years (perhaps as part of a "health" curriculum -- included along with anti-tobacco use, etc.)

242 BulgarWheat  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 2:18:14pm

re: #237 Timbre

fair enough on the drving part.

I just fail to see how this prohibition is going to do anything but line criminals pockets.

243 J.S.  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 2:25:02pm

Also, just a brief note -- I saw a snippet (on Public television?) the other day -- this is about alcohol use and public monies going to the police. It was said that during prohibition in the States in this one city (I forgotten which city), the crime rate (violent assaults, robberies, brawls, wife beating, etc.) so declined that the police chief was forced to lay off members of the police force -- the crime rate was so lowered. Anyway, I do question the theory that legalizing drugs leads to reduced spending on police departments...

244 J.S.  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 2:36:16pm

re: #242 BulgarWheat

Even without "prohibition" criminals' pockets can be lined..Consider, for example, cigarettes. Cigarette packs here in Canada have to bear a stamp...indicating that a certain tax has been paid...well, what do you think criminals want to do? (obviously, import cheap cigs, no Canadian tax having been paid, forge a "stamp", sell to stores, collect the difference, etc.) aka "cigarette running." It's about laws, and violating (skirting) the laws, and realizing a profit...(which is not, strictly speaking, dependent on "prohibition" -- it's any law..)

245 darkster2400  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 2:49:04pm

re: #232 J.S.

Yikes! Thanks for the link.

Are you in Quebec?

246 J.S.  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 2:58:01pm

re: #245 darkster2400

Nope..red-neck Alberta...

Then, again, (on the Off topic theme) prohibition on smokers is getting to be increasingly draconian...a new by-law legislates how far a person must be from a building before lighting up a cigarette in public...(this has created a whole new "niche" marketing opportunity -- some have set up heated, mobile tents for smokers, when the temp drops to minus 30, the smoker can smoke inside the tent -- but then, they got into trouble, so now they've switched to mobile smoking vans...)

247 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 3:02:24pm

re: #241 J.S.
Good point on the marijuana bars. While I do advocate legalization of marijuana, I don't think public consumption in a bar-type setting is a good idea. That is one definite difference between booze and pot- You can drink a small amount of alcohol and stay below the threshold of intoxication. A glass of wine with dinner, for example. Theoretically, you can go into a bar, and have only one drink, or have several spread out over a long enough period of time so that you never become drunk. You smoke pot specifically for the intoxication. My concept of legalization would allow limited sales, possesion, and growing for personal consumption, but not public use. Pot use would be permissible only within the privacy of one's home.

JWM

248 J.S.  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 3:13:41pm

re: #247 JWM

hmmm...then you'd get the equivalent of what they had during Prohibition -- the bootleg houses -- speakeasies -- that is a private residence would become a "cafe" for marijuana smokers...on the sly, of course.

249 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 3:24:53pm

re: #248 J.S.

Well, everyone would have a buddy who always has some good smoke. But there wouldn't be a need for a speakeasy if anyone could go to the local tobacconist and legally buy an ounce on his own. And growing would be about the same. Some would do it for fun, but again, why bother if you could just go down to the store and buy some. It's like moonshining. It actually does still exist, but only in a few places in the rural east. Most people don't bother making white lightning when they can buy a gallon of vodka at the local supermarket.

JWM

250 MrTunes  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 4:01:50pm

Georgetown and UC Irvine : Leading the charge in bending their will to others.

(on the other matter, I think the 420 should be legalized.)

251 darkster2400  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 4:30:58pm

re: #246 J.S.

I'm in Nova Scotia

We just had a law go into effect on April 1 that prohibits a person smoking in a car when minor children are present - though I am not a smoker, it is the start of a slippery slope, I think.

Next thing smokers will have to visit places like Kramer's apartment in the famous Seinfeld episode - Kramer sues Big Tobacco

252 JWM  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 4:57:27pm

re: #251 darkster2400
That's not the start, it's a long way down the slide. You'd have been laughed at if you had made a prediction 20 years ago that the anti-smoking campaigns would lead to this kind of government interference in people's private affairs. Fast food is in their gunsights now. Just wait until someone successfully sues McDonalds for causing their heart attack. Watch the war on junk food decimate the industry, and raise the price of a burger and fries to ten, or twenty bucks.

JWM

253 InternationalObserver  Sun, Apr 6, 2008 5:07:28pm

re: #35 jaunte

"A diverse Muslim community..."

What on earth does he mean by that?

He probably means that there are Pakistani, Indian, Iranian, Arab, and African Muslims.

JUst as communism and fascism were diverse, too.


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