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 ♻RetweetDid Obama Hide His Father's Communist Ideology?

Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:14:32 am PDT

Barack Obama has written in his autobiography that he organized his life around the ideals imparted by his Kenyan father, Barak H. Obama, a Harvard-trained economist. So what were those ideals?

PrestoPundit has found a 1965 paper written by Obama’s father, in which he advocates:

— 100% taxation

— communal farms / the elimination of private farming

— the nationalization of businesses owned by “Europeans” and “Asians”.

— “active” measures to bring about a classless society

PrestoPundit is calling it the “Rosebud” of the Obama campaign: Barack Obama hid his father’s socialist and anti-Western convictions from his readers.

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409 comments

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1 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:15:08am

So his parents had more in common than was thought.

2 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:15:28am

Did Obama know who his father was?

3 galloping granny  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:15:51am

Is Obama's father who Mugabe took lessons from?

4 onslow  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:16:07am

He would have been at home in Mugabe's Zimbabwe.

5 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:16:19am

Who's afraid of a little Maoist idealogy?

6 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:16:43am

This is what they teach economists at Harvard?

7 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:16:44am

Is this what we can expect from an Barack Hussein Obama presidency?

You bet your ass it is. Also, watch for suspension of slective parts of the Consitution. If they do it in Chicago, it'll be done nationally.

8 zmdavid  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:16:53am
Did Obama Hide His Father's Communist Ideology?


Not well enough, apparently.

9 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:16:56am

These ar the Dreams of his father?

10 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:17:29am

Okay, should anyone be all that surprised by this? He and Hillary are both already calling for Marxist/socialist policies to solve everything from the subprime market mess to health care and everything in between.

Their solution for the nation's current economic situation is more taxes.

Sounds like a good fit with his dad's economic prescriptions.

Of course, they also sound like what Mugabe is doing in Zimbabwe and what [T]hugo is doing in Venezuela. And where socialists get their way, pain and misery follow. Without fail.

11 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:17:44am

re: #5 Peacekeeper

Who's afraid of a little Maoist idealogy?

Leave your Moist ideology out of this!

12 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:18:00am

re: #9 Peacekeeper

These are the Dreams of his father?

Obviously. Stalinist = Obama-ist.

13 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:18:18am

The father had a dream, the son is a nightmare.

14 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:18:24am

The leading Democrat's Mommy and Daddy were Communists?

/I feel an angry rant brewing...

15 rabidsquirrel  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:18:38am

re: #6 haakondahl

This is what they teach economists at Harvard?

What, you expect them to extoll the benefits of capitalism?

16 Fo knee ix  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:19:36am

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT...UM..SOCIALISM!

17 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:19:59am

Well no wonder he had issues with color growing up.

He didn't know whether he was Pink or Red.

18 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:20:20am

Round up the white folk and redistribute their property. Catchy.

19 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:20:27am
100% taxation

The Laffer Curve is no Laffing Matter.

20 DesertSage  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:20:29am

So Obama is a Red Diaper Baby?

21 Fo knee ix  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:20:54am

So Obama idolizes the father who abandoned him. Interesting.

22 zorro43  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:21:10am

So much for change and the Lemmings are eating his Marxist ideas up faster than a pig eats corn.

23 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:21:12am

Obama: "What's the big deal? My grandma's a commie, too."

24 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:21:23am

re: #10 lawhawk
African politics-a model for us all.

25 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:21:59am

So how does this differ from the Democrat party platform?

26 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:22:15am

re: #15 rabidsquirrel

What, you expect them to extoll the benefits of capitalism?

You know whom at Harvard I would like to hear speak about economics? The guy who guides the investments of their endowment. No ttheir WGBH/CPB bull9876, but the stuff that keeps them all in Armani.

27 _remembertonyc  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:22:20am

the free ride is over ...

"yes we can"

28 chinesearithmetic  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:22:26am

PrestoPundit, it's not your job to inform the public. That's what The New York Times and The New Yorker are for. How dare you think you can do the job of a real journalist!

29 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:22:42am

AND he has a mole on his fiz!

30 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:23:12am

Sheesh! What is it with this guy? Doesn't the Democratic party even vet candidates anymore? If much more of this stuff comes out the MSM will have to figure out how to use one of these for a Memory Hole!

31 sawth  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:23:50am

Well, bend over, grab your financial/personal freedom/constitutional rights ankles, and get ready for OH!Bama. (i need more coffee).

This is where its heading folks. I'm not honestly, sure if i should move to another country, or vote for Mickey Mouse.

At least with Mickey, we know we're getting someone with character ;)

32 Tumulus11  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:23:56am

'Theoretically, there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed.'
// Barack H. Obama Sr.

. Change.

Drink.

33 Shug  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:24:11am

wow, I would think this would increase his street cred

34 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:24:15am

An Islamic Communist?

/brain fizzle!

35 galloping granny  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:24:18am

re: #6 haakondahl

This is what they teach economists at Harvard?

Yup. Those who founded Harvard would be absolutely dumbfounded at what it has become.

36 pat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:24:41am

Obama's father was a racist loon. Wonder what Obama shares with him? Hmmm

37 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:24:50am

re: #23 Occasional Reader

Obama: "What's the big deal? My grandma's a commie, too."

"I could no more disown my Communist father or my Communist mother than I could disown my Communist ideals or my Communist role models in the Soviet UniZZZ er, Russia.

38 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:24:56am

Some recent history republican presidential candidates ran campaigns against the democrat by highlighting their liberalism, by actually calling them liberals. Might we be referring to Barack Obama (pbuh) as a communist?

/probably not in 2008, but likely in 2012 if he wins.

39 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:26:06am
40 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:26:42am

And Global Warming will be the excuse he uses to enact this agenda.

41 Sol Roth  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:27:30am

re: #10 lawhawk

Okay, should anyone be all that surprised by this? He and Hillary are both already calling for Marxist/socialist policies to solve everything from the subprime market mess to health care and everything in between.

That Communism is the most evil idea ever unleashed on mankind is undeniable. Now we have to climb a wall of ignorance with a new distracted and ignorant generation brainwashed in government schools. I think it's the defining responsibility of those of us who lived through it.

IMHO.

42 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:27:36am

Active Measures, heh. What did the Soviets call them? Wet Operations?

43 blutonazi98  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:27:36am

the only people that this will shock are the ones that have already decided not to vote for him.

all those Orbasm's of people to who Hussein speaks directly into their souls will not care or even look

44 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:27:58am
Obama advocates an "active" rather than a "passive" program to achieve a classless society through the removal of economic disparities between black Africans and Asian and Europeans. (p. 28) "While we welcome the idea of a prevention [of class problems], we should try to cure what has slipped in .. we .. need to eliminate power structures that have been built through excessive accumulation so that not only a few individuals shall control a vast magnitude of resources as is the case now .. so long as we maintain free enterprise one cannot deny that some will accumulate more than others .. " (pp. 29-30)

6. Obama advocates price controls on hotels and the tourist industry, so that the middle class and not only the rich can afford to come to Kenya as tourists. (p. 33)

7. Obama advocates government owned and operated "model farms" as a means of teaching modern farming techniques to farmers. (p. 33)

Because price controls and active management of the economy by governments have worked out famously in the past - famous for their failures.

Or does Obama think that he'll get socialism right because he'll do it better than all the other failures? Or will he simply fail ever more spectacularly if he even attempts it?

This is yet another reason to make sure that folks get out and vote against Democrats in November - you need to have enough members of Congress who oppose this kind of economic claptrap coming from Democrats to prevent them from ever trying this stuff out.

45 johnnyreb  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:28:09am

I have said it before, his entire campaign staff are idiots and should have never been hired. They have missed so much garbage in his past it is becoming a nearly daily experience to see something else he has been less than honest about. I can now see why he has no substance in his campaign. If he even came close to telling the truth not one a single state (except Mass and Vermont maybe) would have voted for him.

If he gets the Dem nod, Big Mac will let lose with both barrels on him.

46 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:28:25am

re: #25 Kosh's Shadow

So how does this differ from the Democrat party platform?

Is that a rhetorical question?

47 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:28:30am

re: #30 CIA Reject

Sheesh! What is it with this guy? Doesn't the Democratic party even vet candidates anymore? If much more of this stuff comes out the MSM will have to figure out how to use one of these for a Memory Hole!

They *do* vet them. This is what they are looknig for. If you have read Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism", this Obammunism is terrifying stuff. SO would Ted Turner's "We gotta mobilize like we did in WWII" schtick about forcibly converting the country to wind power, if only Turner weren't so pathetically enfeebled.

48 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:28:34am

Hm why should this surprise anyone, really?

49 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:29:03am

Hillary is Al Capone to Barack's Stalin. Stick with the mob I say.

50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:29:17am

Well, I'm sure if Obama does manage to get in, he'll make sure they do it right this time. Of course, thats what every communist regime says when they come to power.

51 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:29:25am

We've really f*** up our society. But not in the way these titty babies that call themselves Democrats think. It sure seems to me that the better things get, the more whiny, ignorant, stupid people we breed. They have so much time on their hands, all they have to do is to sit around and think up reasons why our country is so f*** up. It sure may be that these asswipes need to spend a few years on one of their "socialist paradises" gulags getting worked to death to give them pause. They contribute nothing to their society, but are plainly like ticks, sucking on the blood of society, and have the gall to criticize the quality of the blood they are sucking.
Damn them all to Hell.

52 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:29:42am

re: #26 haakondahl

You know whom at Harvard I would like to hear speak about economics? The guy who guides the investments of their endowment. No ttheir WGBH/CPB bull9876, but the stuff that keeps them all in Armani.

That would probably be these "evil capitalist bastards".

53 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:29:57am

re: #49 Peacekeeper

Hillary is Al Capone Trotsky? to Barack's Stalin. Stick with the mob I say.

Oh, and I replied to your #52 back in the MTV Holocaust thread. (:

54 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:29:59am

re: #30 CIA Reject

Sheesh! What is it with this guy? Doesn't the Democratic party even vet candidates anymore? If much more of this stuff comes out the MSM will have to figure out how to use one of these for a Memory Hole!


nah.. We'll never see this reported by the MSM. Hannity might have some fun with it, but that's it. It should be fun though watching skeleton-guy stammer trying to present some nonsensical challenge to this.

55 sawth  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:30:02am

re: #48 Hengineer

Hm why should this surprise anyone, really?

It isnt really. This is just another day of fun and adventure in the Democrap Party.

But for Liberals, its like Groundhog Day all the time..whatever happened yesterday...wait, something happened yesterday
/sarc off

56 ModerateWolverine  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:30:44am

I shudder to think how good of a chance this guy has at running our country.

57 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:30:46am

re: #51 maddogg

Maddogg, stop holding back. Let us know what your real feelings are!

58 bulwrk  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:30:47am

'Theoretically, there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed.'
// Barack H. Obama Sr.


This is why the democrats feel the death of the 2nd amendment is paramount.

59 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:31:02am

re: #38 unrealizedviewpoint

Some recent history republican presidential candidates ran campaigns against the democrat by highlighting their liberalism, by actually calling them liberals. Might we be referring to Barack Obama (pbuh) as a communist?

/probably not in 2008, but likely in 2012 if he wins.

Nope, because we'll be in re-education camps, if we're still alive then.

60 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:31:04am

re: #51 maddogg

Damn them all to Hell.

Charlton Heston smiles in heaven, though I agree with the rest. What point is there in succeeding in a society that celebrates failure?

61 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:31:10am

Much about Obama may be bullshit.

One thing is true.

When he says CHANGE, he means change.

He will change what is best and successful about America and when he is done you will have [just] change in your pockets.

62 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:31:43am
“active” measures to bring about a classless society

Do I need to hide my eyeglasses?

63 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:31:58am

re: #52 CIA Reject

That would probably be these "evil capitalist bastards".

Notice how the extremely communistic liberal professors never seem to understand where the money in their tenured salaries comes from (or "research" grants).

64 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:32:42am

re: #61 Opinionated

Much about Obama may be bullshit.

One thing is true.

When he says CHANGE, he means change.

He will change what is best and successful about America and when he is done you will have [just] change in your pockets.

I've got a quarter, already halfway there

65 Abu Maven  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:32:42am

And Obama's mom was a commie, too:

Michelle Obama speaks with greater warmth of her mother-in-law than of her husband. "She was kind of a dreamer, his mother," Michelle Obama was quoted in the January 25 Boston Globe. "She wanted the world to be open to her and her children. And as a result of her naivete, sometimes they lived on food stamps, because sometimes dreams don't pay the rent. But as a result of her naivete, Barack got to see the world like most of us don't in this country." How strong the ideological motivation must be of a mother to raise her children on the thin fair in pursuit of a political agenda.
"Naivete" is a euphemism for Ann Dunham's motivation. Friends describe her as a "fellow traveler", that is, a communist sympathizer, from her youth, according to a March 27, 2007, Chicago Tribune report.

[Link: www.atimes.com...]

66 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:32:42am

re: #39 taxfreekiller

TFK, if anybody from the eeevil gummint is coming for Charles, they had better get in line. The way I see it, Charles (and any other trackable person around here) has the greatest exposure to risk from deranged internet losers, then enraged Islamic Fasctists, and finally, somewhere after the Wicked Witch of the East-Northeast, arranged gummint fixers.

Still, nice to talk with you after so long, How ya been?

67 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:33:00am

re: #62 MandyManners

We can escape across the border...to Thailand!

/not implying anything of that nature, mind you...

68 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:33:16am

re: #46 Nevergiveup

Is that a rhetorical question?

Well, it is a damned good one.

69 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:33:43am
70 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:34:04am

re: #47 haakondahl

They *do* vet them. This is what they are looknig for. If you have read Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism", this Obammunism is terrifying stuff. SO would Ted Turner's "We gotta mobilize like we did in WWII" schtick about forcibly converting the country to wind power, if only Turner weren't so pathetically enfeebled.

Yes, it is frightening stuff. While I was reading Liberal Fascism, I kept comparing Rich Daley and Barack Hussein Obama to the people described in the book. They are fascist in every way. If you want to see how Obama would treat the Second Amendment, watch what has been done in Chicago under Daley. That's just an example.

71 Roger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:34:17am

re: #10 lawhawk

where socialists get their way, pain and misery follow. Without fail.

Only because it was without Ted Chappaquiddick Kennedy's leadership till now.

72 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:34:17am

Wasn't BHO a toddler when dad went out for milk and never came back? How can you be so close to someone's thoughts and ideals when you never see him? The answer is that you manufacture a fantasy person. Hmmm... first BHO was inexperienced, then he exhibited bad judgement and questionable alliances, and now he's looking unstable!

/Give him the Presidency!

73 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:34:48am

re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, I'm sure if Obama does manage to get in, he'll make sure they do it right this time. Of course, thats what every communist regime says when they come to power.

Take a bow for the new revolution...

74 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:34:52am

re: #70 Honorary Yooper

I'm currently up to the Eugenics chapter in that book, but it seems more focused on Hillary from what I've been reading in the comments.

75 zmdavid  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:34:56am

re: #56 ModerateWolverine

I shudder to think how good of a chance this guy has at running our country.

Running or ruining?

Obama does ABBA!

76 pat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:35:00am

Can you imagine the idiocy of this economic nightmare? The allocation of resources based on race is already part of the Democratic platform, but 100% taxation then the reallocation of goods by government? Where are these good coming from? This is Pol Pot.

77 harrylook  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:35:05am

Hey, look on the bright side, Osbama, Chomsky, Churchill & Sheehan will still vote for you.

78 itellu3times  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:35:53am

100%
200%!

Do I hear, 300%?

79 Sizzlack  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:35:56am

If the government takes 100% of your money, why would you bother working?

80 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:36:07am

What's disturbing is that almost all communists have been fascist in their handling of their power. They believe they have the right to change things because they have the power, and by having the power, they're right.

81 theBuckWheat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:36:09am

Sounds exactly like how the Khmer Rouge tried to purify Cambodian society. We all know the horror-stained results of that exercise.

With respect to 100% taxation, this socialism is based on the open violation of three of the Ten Commandments: lies, coveting and theft. Socialism cannot succeed as an economic system because it destroys the very price signals upon which the economy functions.

The Left loves to scold the rest of us about "sustainability", but the socialism that the left loves and advances is not sustainable, except to the extent that North Korea's economy sustains itself by selling nuclear technology to Syria and Iran and pays for imported goods by counterfeiting US $100 bills.

82 zmdavid  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:36:35am

re: #79 Sizzlack

If the government takes 100% of your money, why would you bother working?

Because you love the government.

83 Sizzlack  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:36:37am

re: #79 Sizzlack

If the government takes 100% of your money, why would you bother working?

They'd obviously already be supplying you with more government cheese than you'd know what to do with.

84 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:36:43am

re: #76 pat

Can you imagine the idiocy of this economic nightmare? The allocation of resources based on race is already part of the Democratic platform, but 100% taxation then the reallocation of goods by government? Where are these good coming from? This is Pol Pot.

No this is about that pot you pee in. If you got a pot to pee in, they want it. So take my advice, pee on the lawn.

85 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:36:44am

re: #78 itellu3times

100%
200%!

Do I hear, 300%?

800%

86 itellu3times  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:37:36am

re: #79 Sizzlack

If the government takes 100% of your money, why would you bother working?

It's for the children.

87 Sizzlack  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:37:46am

re: #82 zmdavid

Because you love the government.

But then what...how does society function? We all toil away all day just to give every cent to Big Brother? Then what? Is literally everything gov subsidized? My govt owned apt, govt milk, govt toilet paper, govt socks...govt condoms?!

88 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:37:57am

re: #79 Sizzlack

If the government takes 100% of your money, why would you bother working?

/reason for shoddy worksmanship work ethic and increasing sales of vodka in Soviet Russia

(read a few books on Soviet Turncoats, people who requested and obtained political asylum in the United States, such as the Mig-29 pilot who flew to Japan)

89 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:38:06am

re: #74 laZardo

I'm currently up to the Eugenics chapter in that book, but it seems more focused on Hillary from what I've been reading in the comments.

At the time, Obama was barely a blip on the radar screen, and Hillary was big news. I'm sure if Goldberg had to write it all again with what we know now, Barack would be in there as well.

90 Crusader Rabbit  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:38:07am
Did Obama Hide His Father's Communist Ideology?


It would be consistent. His obfuscations about his parentage and ideology are legion.

91 Dave the.....  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:38:24am

So JMac's dad was a celebrated Adrimal, O'bama's was a communist. Sigh, and if the election were today, Obama could be the winner.

92 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:38:26am

re: #86 itellu3times

It's for the children.

Of course not your children, somebody others kids!

93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:38:28am

re: #82 zmdavid

Because you love the government.

Because your work supervisor at the camp has a big fricking taser and controls your food supply.

94 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:38:41am

re: #87 Sizzlack

But then what...how does society function? We all toil away all day just to give every cent to Big Brother? Then what? Is literally everything gov subsidized? My govt owned apt, govt milk, govt toilet paper, govt socks...govt condoms?!

People thought COMPANY currencies were bad, how about where the government IS the company?

95 ec marm  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:38:50am

Every time someone lifts the rock that is Obama's past, something ugly and scary crawls out. Yet the odds of his winning the Dem nomination seem to get better every day.
Wake up America!
Please?

96 ModerateWolverine  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:38:50am

re: #75 zmdavid

Great correction!

97 Sifty  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:39:01am

This guy should be permanently banished to the kids table with Harry and Teddy and Nancy.

Why hasn't McCain called these Dem idiots (but I repeat myself) communists? It's just one little word, but if he came out and said it on TV I think that many people would stand up and cheer. Time to quit pussyfooting around. These people are cracked.
Their beliefs and policies lead to thug communism and destruction of this country.
But I'm simple.

98 itellu3times  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:39:04am

re: #87 Sizzlack

But then what...how does society function? We all toil away all day just to give every cent to Big Brother? Then what? Is literally everything gov subsidized? My govt owned apt, govt milk, govt toilet paper, govt socks...govt condoms?!

Because that's freedom - freedom from want of apartments, and milk, and toilet paper. Work makes you free!
/socialism

99 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:39:11am

re: #73 Kosh's Shadow

I agree.

100 bulwrk  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:39:14am

re: #79 Sizzlack

If the government takes 100% of your money, why would you bother working?

Stalin had an answer to that question

101 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:39:22am

re: #79 Sizzlack

If the government takes 100% of your money, why would you bother working?

DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!

We have a WINNAH!

102 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:39:36am

re: #98 itellu3times

Because that's freedom - freedom from want of apartments, and milk, and toilet paper. Work makes you free!
/socialism

Arbeit macht Frei!

/national socialism

103 bosforus  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:39:40am

Well, at least he won't force us to exchange our guns with hedgehogs.

104 Dave the.....  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:39:44am

If we had 100% taxation, I would be running the biggest black market system in the land.

All unreported income.

105 Sizzlack  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:39:53am

re: #88 Hengineer

Oh of course. If had to make toys for kids all day knowing that I essentially was not getting paid, I certainly wouldnt pay much attention to how well I did my job. But how does this make sense to anyone?

106 Jinx  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:40:08am

Communism. Bleh. Take it and stuff it where the sun don't shine. I've seen first-hand what it does to people and it is not a pretty sight.

OT:

Clinton is calling to boycott the Olympic opener. Why's she dissing her comrades? Is it because her superdelegate lead is dwindling?

107 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:40:09am

re: #100 bulwrk

Stalin had an answer to that question

Yup and you spelled that answer : GULAG!

108 galloping granny  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:40:29am

re: #91 Dave the...

So JMac's dad was a celebrated Adrimal, O'bama's was a foreign communist. Sigh, and if the election were today, Obama could be the winner.

Fixed. BTW, I believe McCain's grandfather was also a Naval Officer.

109 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:40:29am

re: #95 ec marm

Every time someone lifts the rock that is Obama's past, something ugly and scary crawls out. Yet the odds of his winning the Dem nomination seem to get better every day.
Wake up America!
Please?

If this sniveling bastard gets elected, America isn't sleeping, it's comatose.

110 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:40:31am

re: #101 CIA Reject

DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!

We have a WINNAH!

Again, Blamebush's "Socialism is your friend" is apt here, too.

111 zmdavid  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:40:44am

re: #87 Sizzlack
Yep - government gives you everything. Tumulus has the appropriate quote:

re: #32 Tumulus11

'Theoretically, there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed.'
// Barack H. Obama Sr.

. Change.

Drink.

112 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:41:05am

re: #108 galloping granny

Fixed. BTW, I believe McCain's grandfather was also a Naval Officer.

Also an Admiral!

113 incanus  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:41:06am

re: #87 Sizzlack

But then what...how does society function? We all toil away all day just to give every cent to Big Brother? Then what? Is literally everything gov subsidized? My govt owned apt, govt milk, govt toilet paper, govt socks...govt condoms?!

From each according to ability, to each according to need.

If you don't put out, you ain't patriotic, brother.

114 American Soldier  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:41:09am

A Red Diaper Baby- by way of Africa. Whoda thunk it...

...Public acts of treason abound. Sedition comes easier to some than breathing. The seeds planted in the 1920s and earlier, that sprouted in the '50s, '60s, and '70s, now blossom in the likes of Schumer, Fonda, Kennedy, Clinton, CAIR, Maher, Carter, Murtha, Kerry, Gore; the list goes on. Politicians, actors, reporters, commentators, musicians, Fifth Columnists...those who believe their 15 minutes of fame somehow endows them with a better understanding of how your life should be run. While I can't fathom most of their motivations, I do know that they are bent on the destruction of America as we have known it; the America of free speech, free worship, freedom to to aspire and to achieve. They are willing to sacrifice the freedom of our children and grandchildren for their grievously flawed view of the world.They villify the Commander-in-Chief, do their utmost to undermine the morale of the men and women who are their sole defense against a hostile world, work to destroy the economic and political systems that allows them the luxury of protest, actively provide aid and comfort to our enemies. They espouse a world without borders, therefore with no nations. No United States of America...
115 Sizzlack  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:42:09am

re: #98 itellu3times

Because that's freedom - freedom from want of apartments, and milk, and toilet paper. Work makes you free!
/socialism

I get that. But even if I have the freedom of want of an apartment, I still need a roof over my head at night and dinner at dinner time. What are we supposed to all live in giant tee pees eating the same slop night after night? Who the F does that sound appealing to?

116 winston06  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:42:21am

I am not surprised. I've said all along that this guy is a radical Marxist with some Racist bones. Plus he's phony and dangerous.

117 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:42:22am

re: #79 Sizzlack

If the government takes 100% of your money, why would you bother working?

When the government has 100% of your money, they can afford to hire three poorly-trained goons who work in shifts to ensure that you continue working.

118 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:42:30am

re: #105 Sizzlack

Oh of course. If had to make toys for kids all day knowing that I essentially was not getting paid, I certainly wouldnt pay much attention to how well I did my job. But how does this make sense to anyone?

It only makes sense when you see that they're forcing YOU to work so they can sit back fat and lazy as the true "thinkers" of the revolution.

Anyone else realize that the "workers revolution" basically made the plight of the worker WORSE?

119 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:42:34am

As one of the trustees of my parent's relatively modest estate, having to deal with the 'death tax', which really feels like being stolen from, I can tell you that the "100% taxation idea" is completely repugnant.

Want to sap all initiative, so we can all sit around in a lethargic puddle of self-pity?

Go with the big tax ideas.

120 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:42:46am

re: #100 bulwrk

Stalin had an answer to that question

And I believe it was called Gulag.

121 Sol Roth  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:43:07am

re: #18 Peacekeeper

Round up the white folk and redistribute their property. Catchy.

Scary.

122 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:43:17am

re: #110 Hengineer

Socialism is your Friend!

123 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:43:27am

re: #115 Sizzlack

The proletariat, that's who! Don't be a bourgeois lackey! Obama will take care of it!

124 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:43:37am

re: #113 incanus

From each according to ability, to each according to need.

If you don't put out, you ain't patriotic, brother.

Under Socialism, the most highly rewarded talent is the ability to demonstrate need. The second most highly rewarded talent is the ability to hide means.

125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:43:47am

re: #115 Sizzlack

I get that. But even if I have the freedom of want of an apartment, I still need a roof over my head at night and dinner at dinner time. What are we supposed to all live in giant tee pees eating the same slop night after night? Who the F does that sound appealing to?

Well, you're supposed to gloss over things like that and embrace the fact you are now all at the same level with your fellow man and can recite the party mantras when the Glorious Leader drives by in a limo.

126 littleO  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:44:06am

OH SH'T!

Contrarian thought would go like this.
Marxist/socialism long ago integrated our economic system. To the point where one properly defines our system today as Capitalistic/socialism.
A case in point. Why has President Bush pursued the Socialist economic stimulus package that is now being pursued? Could it be that (we) have gone so far toward a socialist economic system that financially we can not retreat without substantial hardship,
Neither is it surprising that Congress is now preparing even stronger socialist legislation as I type. Legislation that will be hard for Bush to fight off. Especially in an election year.
O'bama's old man a communist, Hillary and Barach communist,a socialist leaning Congress, of course. There just kicking the can down the road.
Can Authoritarian government be far away?

127 Roger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:44:08am

Someone needs to split a decent chunk away from the Democratic party into a third party.

of course tfk will need to rightly write the three-party money cult..

128 Sizzlack  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:44:41am

re: #123 laZardo

The proletariat, that's who! Don't be a bourgeois lackey! Obama will take care of it!

Yes that's exactly it though. Since when is wanting a roof over one's head and a meal at dinner time bourgeois? Makes proletariat sound like the hobo who lives in a box around the corner from me.

129 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:44:41am
130 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:44:43am
“active” measures to bring about a classless society

Yes, we've seen those before.

131 newton  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:44:47am

re: #4 onslow

That's what I was thinking!

This is campaign gold for the GOP, BTW.

132 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:45:03am

re: #115 Sizzlack

I get that. But even if I have the freedom of want of an apartment, I still need a roof over my head at night and dinner at dinner time. What are we supposed to all live in giant tee pees eating the same slop night after night? Who the F does that sound appealing to?

People who either go to work in the morning or get shot. That's where the Communist system always winds up, and there's no mystery why.

133 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:45:20am

re: #127 Roger

I registered independent so I'm already half way to joining any new party of common sense.

134 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:45:46am

I don't understand why our glorious communists don't emigrate to North Korea. It's everything they cherish in a country.

135 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:45:51am

re: #115 Sizzlack

I get that. But even if I have the freedom of want of an apartment, I still need a roof over my head at night and dinner at dinner time. What are we supposed to all live in giant tee pees eating the same slop night after night? Who the F does that sound appealing to?

The people in the government who have all your money. Remember the socialist motto: "All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others!"

136 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:45:56am

re: #118 Hengineer

It only makes sense when you see that they're forcing YOU to work so they can sit back fat and lazy as the true "thinkers" of the revolution.

Anyone else realize that the "workers revolution" basically made the plight of the worker WORSE?

Yes; a "socialist workers' paradise" is a usually-ignored oxymoron.

137 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:46:02am

re: #132 haakondahl

People who either go to work in the morning or get shot. That's where the Communist system always winds up, and there's no mystery why.

Under Socialism/Communism, the most highly rewarded talent is the ability to demonstrate need. The second most highly rewarded talent is the ability to hide means.

138 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:46:22am

re: #128 Sizzlack

The State will take care of your housing and food needs, because everyone will provide those for each other. If you need more, the community will deliver as long as the benefits go back to them as well.

139 newton  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:46:23am

If Obama still keeps his hands in his pockets during the Anthem singing or the Pledge of Allegiance, we should remind people why. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

140 incanus  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:46:25am

re: #124 Hengineer

Under Socialism, the most highly rewarded talent is the ability to demonstrate need. The second most highly rewarded talent is the ability to hide means.

Local talk guy this morning was talking about Social Security and how they are going to raise the retirement age (in other words, you will be forced to work longer. He had quotes from people who were saying "Workers who retire early aren't patriotic, because the remove their skills from the workforce." (Read: they remove money from the tax pool).

Why am I in this handbasket?

141 Sizzlack  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:46:35am

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, you're supposed to gloss over things like that and embrace the fact you are now all at the same level with your fellow man and can recite the party mantras when the Glorious Leader drives by in a limo.

Truly some of the scariest shit in the world to me. I don't get how people dig that but if they do they need to know that the Heavens Gate Cult already left the building...

142 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:46:52am

What it all comes down to this election is the long standing battle between the heirs of the American Revolution and the heirs of the French Revolution.

143 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:47:10am

re: #18 Peacekeeper

Round up the white folk and redistribute their property. Catchy.

"White Greed runs a World of Need."

Jeremiah Wright, in his sermon, "The Audacity of Hope", which Obama liked so much he lifted the title of it for his book, and cited it as a formative influence.

144 Racer X  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:47:27am

Come on Hillary!

Don't let this opportunity slip away - you can still blow Obama out of the water and take the nomination.

Either way JMac will win in November.

*pumps fist*

145 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:47:28am

Nguzo Saba Kwanzaa Principle #1
Day #1: December 26
Umoja (oo-MOE-jah)
Unity
To strive for and maintain unity in the family, community, nation and race.

Nguzo Saba Kwanzaa Principle #3
Day #3: December 28
Ujima (oo-JEE-mah)
Collective Work & Responsibility
To build and maintain our community together and to make our Brother's and sister's problems, our problems and to solve them together.

146 Sizzlack  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:47:50am

re: #135 CIA Reject

The people in the government who have all your money. Remember the socialist motto: "All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others!"

And it blows my mind that a majority of today's youth embrace this massive pyramid scheme.

147 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:47:55am

LaZardo, OR
Heh. We seem to have a new cannabis enthusiast. So charmingly paranoid.

148 Roger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:48:00am

re: #139 newton

In OB's case "grapes from the vine"

/hands over his grapes

149 rawmuse  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:48:02am

I am fortunate enough to have to travelled to Communist (with a capital C) nations back in the 1980s. I have seen firsthand what they call a worker's paradise. Those nations were China, the USSR (before the fall) and Cuba. In all cases I saw nothing but misery and the omnipresent hand of the State in all affairs. Your occupation is chosen for you. Your diet is chosen. So is your residence, and sometimes even your mate.

Feel like dissenting? You and your entire family can disappear overnight. And when I say disappear, I mean, it is like you never existed, not just that you went away.

No, thanks.

150 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:48:12am

re: #133 Ojoe

I registered independent so I'm already half way to joining any new party of common sense.

Common Sense? Or vanity and Intellectual Purity?

151 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:48:14am

re: #141 Sizzlack

THey found another one of those Heaven's Gate suicides...

Under the sink, next to the comet.

152 pittrader1988  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:48:49am

I don't think you can hold Obama accountable for his father's statements or beliefs. You can hold him accountable for his OWN statements and beliefs.

He is a socialist pure and simple. He trusts govt to fix problems. He does not believe in free market capitalism.

On foreign policy, he prefers negotiation with tyrants rather than a show of force. He follows the Neville Chamberlain-Jimmy Carter style.
He is pro-Palestinian.

On trade, he is not for free trade.

These are reasons not to cast your ballot in favor of Barack Obama.

We could go into judgement with regard to his church and associates, but that may or may not be concrete. The three reasons above are concrete.

153 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:48:58am

re: #140 incanus

Social Security and how they are going to raise the retirement age (in other words, you will be forced to work longer

Well, no, not necessarily. Nobody's forcing you to work; you just can't draw SS benefits until age X.

And under the current state of SS, they'll have to do that, and/or cut benefits. Because the Ponzi scheme just ain't working.

154 Macker  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:49:26am

Oh Great. A Communist AND Muslim. Which comes first I wonder?

/three_guesses_and_first_2_don't_count

155 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:49:27am
156 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:49:34am

re: #150 haakondahl

Won't be pure if I'm in it.

157 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:49:51am
158 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:49:58am

re: #147 Peacekeeper

Who, me?

>_>

159 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:50:10am

re: #153 Occasional Reader

Well, no, not necessarily. Nobody's forcing you to work; you just can't draw SS benefits until age X.

And under the current state of SS, they'll have to do that, and/or cut benefits. Because the Ponzi scheme just ain't working.

You're forgetting the third way: massive inflation, Weimar style.

160 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:50:12am

re: #149 rawmuse

Yeah, but you get free medical care! Such as it is...

161 Racer X  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:51:00am

re: #153 Occasional Reader

Well, no, not necessarily. Nobody's forcing you to work; you just can't draw SS benefits until age X.

And under the current state of SS, they'll have to do that, and/or cut benefits. Because the Ponzi scheme just ain't working.

This is the appeal of legalizing immigrant workers.

162 Macker[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:51:15am
163 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:51:17am

re: #160 maddogg

Yeah, but you get free medical care! Such as it is...

Yes you TOO can get a free abortion! The clinic is just behind that crickety door, they even have state of the art clothes hangers!

164 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:51:19am

re: #146 Sizzlack

And it blows my mind that a majority of today's youth embrace this massive pyramid scheme.

The smart ones labor under the delusion that they will occupy the top spaces in the pyramid, the dumb ones don't even recognize that the pyramid exists.

165 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:51:37am

re: #18 Peacekeeper

Makes Mugabe a visionary, don't it?

Which reminds me, did you get my responses to that whole Hell diplomacy thing a couple open threads back?

166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:51:43am

re: #153 Occasional Reader

Well, no, not necessarily. Nobody's forcing you to work; you just can't draw SS benefits until age X.

And under the current state of SS, they'll have to do that, and/or cut benefits. Because the Ponzi scheme just ain't working.

Yup, I'm resigned to the fact every dollar I "contribute" to SS is being pissed away and I'll never see a fucking dime of it.

167 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:52:22am

re: #164 CIA Reject

The smart ones labor under the delusion that they will occupy the top spaces in the pyramid, the dumb ones don't even recognize that the pyramid exists.

Remember that Mao purged all intellectuals (EXCEPT HIMSELF AND HIS BUDDIES)

168 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:52:28am

re: #163 Hengineer

Not like you would have any need for the procreative act short of helping to create a new generation of our noble proletariat...

169 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:52:57am

re: #132 haakondahl

People who either go to work in the morning or get shot. That's where the Communist system always winds up, and there's no mystery why.

Old Soviet joke:
The government pretends to pay, and the workers pretend to work.

170 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:53:01am
171 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:53:13am

re: #168 laZardo

Just sayin socialistic healthcare can't quite afford the best of the best ;-)

172 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:53:19am

re: #159 Peacekeeper

You're forgetting the third way: massive inflation, Weimar style.

We can all be millionaires! Billionaires, if we play this thing right!

173 incanus  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:53:20am

re: #153 Occasional Reader

Well, no, not necessarily. Nobody's forcing you to work; you just can't draw SS benefits until age X.

And under the current state of SS, they'll have to do that, and/or cut benefits. Because the Ponzi scheme just ain't working.

Oh sure (wink wink) you aren't being forced to work longer. However, as you say, you won't get benefits until you reach the new age limit (about 125 by the time I get there).

Most Americans will have no choice but to continue working as they haven't saved on their own (DUMB!)

174 Roger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:53:33am

re: #149 rawmuse

A friend who immigrated from Russia to Canada to the USA would say "If anyone(fellow Russian) begins to feel nostalgic, two weeks visit back home'll cure them".

175 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:53:49am

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yup, I'm resigned to the fact every dollar I "contribute" to SS is being pissed away and I'll never see a fucking dime of it.

True, but good ole LBJ funded his "great society" with your SS money. Now, don't you feel better?

176 JohnnyReb  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:54:07am

re: #153 Occasional Reader

Well, no, not necessarily. Nobody's forcing you to work; you just can't draw SS benefits until age X.

And under the current state of SS, they'll have to do that, and/or cut benefits. Because the Ponzi scheme just ain't working.

And I am not going to get nearly anywhere close to what I would have gotten if the Govt let me put my and my employers match into something like a 401K. And I am one of the lucky ones born before 1960 that the Govt knows not to mess around with as we have a 75% plus voting rate.

Over at the Coyote blog he had a piece about the current SS system and it turns out it has a negative rate of return. Scary stuff. I have told my son to not even think he is going to get one cent of his SS money back.

177 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:54:13am

re: #169 Kosh's Shadow

Old Soviet joke:
The government pretends to pay, and the workers pretend to work.

In Soviet Russia, Work pretends YOU!

178 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:54:16am

re: #161 Racer X

This is the appeal of legalizing immigrant workers.

A whole new wave of suckers... hmmm...

179 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:54:39am

re: #171 Hengineer

Our noble proletariat would be too healthy to use something so bourgeois. Our scientists add special supplements to our daily meals to ensure this!

180 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:54:55am

re: #173 incanus

Oh sure (wink wink) you aren't being forced to work longer. However, as you say, you won't get benefits until you reach the new age limit

Moral of the story, don't count on SS for your retirement.

181 pat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:55:12am

One of the more obvious points that the economist here voiced only in reference is this: If corporations are taxed at 100% they cease to exist. Indeed, corporate taxes are traditionally low (although America's are the highest in the world when State and Federal are added up) because of this fact. Book value and share prices go to zero because there can be neither capital nor income gain. I don'r think Hillary or McCain understand this either.

182 Irenike  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:55:13am

Look at Obama's voting record. Nobody is more left than he is. That means he is his father's intellectual heir.

Conservative blacks have been accused of being oreo cookies: black on the outside, white on the inside. Obama is a raspberry truffle: brown on the outside, red on the inside.

183 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:55:29am

re: #176 JohnnyReb

And I am not going to get nearly anywhere close to what I would have gotten if the Govt let me put my and my employers match into something like a 401K. And I am one of the lucky ones born before 1960 that the Govt knows not to mess around with as we have a 75% plus voting rate.

Over at the Coyote blog he had a piece about the current SS system and it turns out it has a negative rate of return. Scary stuff. I have told my son to not even think he is going to get one cent of his SS money back.


As far as I can tell, no one my age expects our SS money back.
(I'm 26)

184 Guy_Philly  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:55:43am

Also included in the paper were these familiar sounding words:

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

/SARC

185 haakondahl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:55:44am

re: #162 Macker

Either say something or don't. Nobody wants to read that crap. I'm out.

186 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:55:58am

Workers of the world UNITE. You have nothing to lose but your money, freedom and soul.

187 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:56:06am

re: #182 Irenike

And the econazis are watermelons. Green on the outside, seedy and red straight through.

/all natural, though.

188 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:56:14am

re: #179 laZardo

Our noble proletariat would be too healthy to use something so bourgeois. Our scientists add special supplements to our daily meals to ensure this!

All you need is a party pin, and you get two pies. But how dare you ask for a party pin you greedy capitalist whore!

189 Shug  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:56:24am
the nationalization of businesses owned by “Europeans” and “Asians”.

Barack Hussein Mugabe?

190 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:57:03am

re: #167 Hengineer

Remember that Mao purged all intellectuals (EXCEPT HIMSELF AND HIS BUDDIES)

Precisely- "political power comes out of the barrel of a gun". That's the last word on communism.

191 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:57:11am

re: #165 laZardo

soo many threads! No.

192 incanus  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:57:14am

re: #180 Occasional Reader

Moral of the story, don't count on SS for your retirement.

I'm with Kragar; I'll never see a dime.

SS is nothing more than an additional, harder to avoid, income tax. There is no SS trust fund. There's nothing there, the money goes straight into the general fund.

Yes, I know the government buys Treasury Bonds with SS money. This is a fancy way of saying "I am taking this money and will pay it back later". It's simply future debt, with interest.

Gah, this pisses me off.

193 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:57:58am

re: #175 maddogg

True, but good ole LBJ funded his "great society" with your SS money. Now, don't you feel better?

I must have missed it.

194 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:58:19am

re: #181 pat

Then,

The State provides all, the State takes all, the State is all.

195 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:58:51am
196 Hengineer  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:58:54am

re: #192 incanus

I'm with Kragar; I'll never see a dime.

SS is nothing more than an additional, harder to avoid, income tax. There is no SS trust fund. There's nothing there, the money goes straight into the general fund.

Yes, I know the government buys Treasury Bonds with SS money. This is a fancy way of saying "I am taking this money and will pay it back later". It's simply future debt, with interest.

Gah, this pisses me off.

Why do you think Democrats are against the privatization? It means money that they can't touch!

197 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:59:55am

re: #192 incanus

fear not, You will still be afforded the staples by the NEw Order:
Stale Bread
rotten meat
dead people's shoes

198 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:00:56am

re: #191 Peacekeeper

The Secretary of Brimstone issued a statement today criticizing President Obama's new economic policies, claiming they will be harmful to the bilateral economical relationship between the two entities.

"It will put a strain on our resources and development if the population is trained to believe that our existence is some kind of opium of the masses," the Secretary said, though he also expressed hope that the increase in biological compounds to the United States would help to repair some of that damage.

199 Roger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:03:09am

At least Santorum gets it :"Santorum calls for war with ‘Islamo-fascists’" Charles? how about a thread?

200 X-ray  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:03:58am
— “active” measures to bring about a classless society


They have a lock on this bullet point. Honor and class are antithetical to the Dems

201 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:04:05am

re: #197 Peacekeeper

fear not, You will still be afforded the staples by the NEw Order:
Stale Bread
rotten meat
dead people's shoes

and ... SOYLENT GREEN!

/Charlton Heston, RIP

202 Izzy Dunne  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:04:48am

Does he or does he not have a "c" in his name?
Everybody writes "Barack", but the paper is published by "Barak".

And there's reference to "Barrack" (two "r"s).

Inquiring minds want to know...

203 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:06:21am

re: #201 CIA Reject

That'd explain why they produce the aforementioned shoes so easily.

204 BulgarWheat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:06:51am

I have a proposal regarding Social Security.

I'll keep paying SS atx until I retire. It is benefiting my parents presently. I know I'll never see a nickel of it, but what the heck.

I'd only ask one thing in return, don't tax my children with Social Security based on my needs. I knew nothing was going to be there in High School and have always had no expectations of seeing. Take the yoke off of my kids necks and I'd be happy.

205 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:07:15am

re: #162 Macker

My brother-in-law would call Kwanzaa the "(N-word) Christmas." While I would not use such verbage, I certainly agree that those days (notice I don't call them holidays) smack of total Socialism.


What's with this? Why bring this out of context crap here?

206 Roger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:08:09am

re: #204 BulgarWheat

Amen!

207 BulgarWheat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:08:27am

re: #204 BulgarWheat

atx? PIMF tax. sigh.

208 incanus  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:09:00am

re: #204 BulgarWheat

I have a proposal regarding Social Security.

I'll keep paying SS atx until I retire. It is benefiting my parents presently. I know I'll never see a nickel of it, but what the heck.

I'd only ask one thing in return, don't tax my children with Social Security based on my needs. I knew nothing was going to be there in High School and have always had no expectations of seeing. Take the yoke off of my kids necks and I'd be happy.

I support this comment.

209 BulgarWheat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:09:51am

re: #208 incanus

Thank you. By the time my kids are joining the work force, SS should be in complete shambles and shown for the ponzi scheme fraud that it is.

210 TMF  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:10:30am

No one will notice. MSM will bury.

See Rasmussen daily tracking- Obama now w/in 1 point of McCain.

Hes catching up.

People want change. When the people want change, they get it.

In other words- we're totally fucked

211 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:10:36am

re: #153 Occasional Reader Yup. They've raised the age at which you can get full benefits to 66 or 67 now. Still can "retire" at 62, but you only get something like 60% of what you get at full retirement.
And it's OUR FAULT - WE'VE let the government raid the SS Fund (and Medicare*, btw) for generations now.
*As an example ONLY: to get parts A and B of Medicare now costs you $98.63 per month. Under that you're not "insured" for any drugs, and you're responsible for 20% of any tests, x-rays, hospital stays and doctors bills. If you get Part C - to cover that 20% not covered under A + B, it costs you another $278.38 per month. So to be covered for what Medicare ALLOWS for doctor visits, hospital stays, tests, x-rays etc, and prescripton drug benefits (varies but it's around $50.00 a month) you will have to pay NOW, something like $427 per month. That's for EVERYONE on Social Security now; the fact that I'm on Social Security Disability Insurance because of my inability to work because of my cancer doesn't change anything at all. Well, except I have to reach age 67 (as opposed to 66) to get my full SS benefits instead of SSDI.
That amount is MORE THAN 24% of my SSDI monthly income. At age 62 (63 this Friday). And even if I should by some miracle live to be 67, that amount is gonna jump WAAAY more than the amount I get under SSDI.
And I'm informed that Medicare is in WORSE shape than Social Security.

212 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:11:27am

re: #198 laZardo

They are proposing a two state solution witha return to the pre Eden boundaries...

213 Susanl  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:13:02am

My stupid brother-in-law and his wife showed up at my house this weekend. They fully expected to "plug-in" their ancient motor home and live in my drive way for the next few months. They also expect to be fed and cared for. Typical libs.

She is all excited about Obama and thinks he is just wonderful. After her first gushing sentence, I had to interrupt her and explain that we are not Obama supporters, and think he is the worst thing that could ever happen to this country. I hurt her feelings. Hurt them worse when I explained that I just tossed out my last child (he's 30 for Pete's sake!) and I do not want anyone staying at our house. They have two days to find some where else to be. (I had to let them wait get their food stamps, don't you know). The nice thing is, she will no more vote than I can jump over the moon.

I am convinced: Lefty just wants free stuff. And, they want me to fricking pay for it.

Sorry, I just needed to vent, back to the spreadsheets.

BBL

Susan

214 BulgarWheat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:13:33am

re: #211 realwest

Hey, real! Sorry to hear about all of that. Me dear old Mam's not real happy with SS, Medicare, or the new prescription plan.

I replied to your email and was opening your newest email a moment ago. Gotta go read it.

BRB through squinty eye's. Damn broken bifocals.

215 jcm  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:14:04am

100% taxation = Slavery

216 Peacekeeper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:14:07am

re: #213 Susanl

What will they do with the hound dogs if you throw them out?

217 incanus  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:14:47am

#213

Just, wow. I'm not sure what to say, other than good luck!

218 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:15:04am

re: #214 BulgarWheat Oh, you'll be able to read my e-mail, my friend! LOL!
Sorry about my post #211, but I'm just pissed off that I've paid into SS and Medicare WAAAY more than I'll ever get out of it.

219 BulgarWheat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:16:03am

re: #213 Susanl

Susanl, you are wise indeed. Show them the "Way of the Boot".

My Dad called it the 18/30 plan. He told me when I turned 18 I had 30 days to get my ass outta his house.

Dad understood the Way of the Boot

220 laZardo  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:16:14am

re: #212 Peacekeeper

The mayor of the City of Dis told CNN reporters that he would "very much like to see these harsh restrictions lifted upon our fair city." He also expressed hopes that despite America's move toward socialism, "that President Obama would at least keep his promise to take a more evenhanded approach to our situation," citing a statement made by the President in early 2008.

/and this little demon wishes you all a good night. (:

221 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:16:25am

re: #215 jcm

100% taxation = Slavery

Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State, everything for the State.

222 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:16:45am

Simple observation: If I had all the money my government has stolen from me in the name of social security taxes, I would now, with my current investments, be a millionaire, and would have no need of any social security benefits.

223 jcm  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:18:24am

re: #218 realwest

Oh, you'll be able to read my e-mail, my friend! LOL!
Sorry about my post #211, but I'm just pissed off that I've paid into SS and Medicare WAAAY more than I'll ever get out of it.

While back I ran a first level approximation on SS vs. Berkshire Hathaway A funds. The difference was simply awesome. SS if its around when I retire would return approx. 1k a month. The interest on BH A funds would give me around 10k a month off the interest.

If a fund advisor offered SS as product he'd go to jail for running a ponzi scheme.

224 jcm  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:19:08am

re: #221 Honorary Yooper

Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State, everything for the State.

The spark to the revolution was a tax of 3%.

225 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:19:15am

re: #222 maddogg
Hell maddogg, even just putting all I've paid into a 2.5% savings account while I was working I'd be better off and could afford ALL the cancer care I need.

226 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:19:15am

re: #213 Susanl

You go girl! There is no need to let anyone push you around.

227 BulgarWheat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:20:33am

re: #218 realwest

My, what nice big fonts you have realwest...

Lil Ol posted something Saturday morning. I didn't know "itsy-bitsy" was a font style.

She was messin' with me...

228 Yankee Division Son  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:21:22am

This is hilarious.. Barack and Hillary are the gifts that keep on giving.. no wonder he's running a cotton candy campaign (all fluff, no substance) the more we find out about him the more frightening he becomes, and then we have Hillary who just can't seem to stop compulsive lying (big shock there)

I'm getting the feeling McCain is gonna win by a landslide like Reagan did in '84.. and just like then, all the liberals in Cambridge will say "I don't understand it, nobody I know voted for him"

229 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:21:48am

re: #223 jcm Yep, that's all SS has ever been - a Ponzi scheme. But WE are the ones who let it be a Ponzi scheme. WE could have insisted that all the dough paid into SS be put into a TRUST FUND like the Highway Trust Fund, to be used ONLY for SS and Medicare.
But we didn't.


BTW, ALL, sorry for my rant in #211.

230 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:22:38am

re: #79 Sizzlack

If the government takes 100% of your money, why would you bother working?

Ask a slave.

231 BulgarWheat  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:22:51am

re: #229 realwest

realwest, if you can't rant here, then exactly where can you rant?

232 Bill Dalasio  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:23:11am

In contrast to his father, Sen. Obama's economic views appear to be more accurately designated as fascist, rather than communist. The gist of economics under an Obama regime appears to focus on the designation of certain economic actors as legally privileged "patriot corporations". The privileges accorded these favored participants would effectively force any non-favored competitor out of the market or to gain access to favored status. But, of course, favored status would be reserved for only those firms meeting the economic and social (and inevitably political) goals of the administration. Thus, while nominal private property remains in effect, de facto control of the property becomes vested in the state. Anyone even remotely familiar with the actualities of fascist or Nazi economics (as opposed to the leftist mantra that it is capitalism) can see the all-too-obvious parallels.

233 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:25:04am

The subject of communists and social security is bound to put many into a ranting mood, and with good reason IMHO.

234 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:25:06am

re: #228 Yankee Division Son I truly wish I could agree with you about the results of the elections, but I'm afraid it's gonna be a landslide the other way. McCain isn't going to hit Obama where he should be hit and if he does he'll be dismissed as a racist. And McCain is, relatively speaking, OLD and represents the "old" way of doing things.
The one thing the Obama campaign HAS done is to energize Democrats and the youth of voting age in ths country and not to McCain's advantage, either.

235 bunker buster  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:26:15am

Is he sure Mugabe isn't his daddy?

236 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:26:16am

re: #104 Dave the...

If we had 100% taxation, I would be running the biggest black market system in the land.

All unreported income.

It would be necessary to make an example of you, oh selfish one.

237 dolfan  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:27:38am

Why worry about Social Security? When Obama is president, he will just raise the FICA tax and poof! just like magic, it's fixed!

Why worry about health care? When Obama is president, he will just raise income taxes and poof! just like magic, everyone's healthy!

War on your mind? Don't worry! When Obama is president, he'll just wave his magic wand and poof! all the soldiers will return! And everyone in the world will just love us again!

/yeah right.

238 Sol Roth  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:28:13am

re: #179 laZardo

Our noble proletariat would be too healthy to use something so bourgeois. Our scientists add special supplements to our daily meals to ensure this!

Wait until Politburo cuts soma ration, prole, then we cut vodka ration when you complain.

Vee have our vays.

Kommissar Rothkosovitch.

239 Catttt  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:28:18am

The blank space where "my opinion of Sen. O's dad" is kept in my brain (and I have tried to keep an open mind) is slowly being filled by "what a fricking asshole."

240 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:29:24am

re: #231 BulgarWheat
Out in the parking lot, I reckon! LOL! I just shouldn't lose control like that out here on Charles' blog.
It was intended to be informative, but I'm afraid most folks started reading it, got bored and ignored it. Just a waste of Charles' bandwidth.

241 Fasternu426  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:29:54am

Who's your daddy?

242 Iron Fist[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:30:15am
243 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:31:53am

re: #242 Iron Fist Hey Fist! "It seems that the two Husseins have something a lot in common."
Just thought I'd fix that for you!

244 bunker buster  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:32:45am

Eh, looks like I'm a little late with the Mugabe wisecrack.

245 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:33:09am

re: #240 realwest

Out in the parking lot, I reckon! LOL! I just shouldn't lose control like that out here on Charles' blog.
It was intended to be informative, but I'm afraid most folks started reading it, got bored and ignored it. Just a waste of Charles' bandwidth.

I read it all.

246 jcm  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:34:17am

re: #229 realwest

Yep, that's all SS has ever been - a Ponzi scheme. But WE are the ones who let it be a Ponzi scheme. WE could have insisted that all the dough paid into SS be put into a TRUST FUND like the Highway Trust Fund, to be used ONLY for SS and Medicare.
But we didn't.


BTW, ALL, sorry for my rant in #211.

We did, we keep electing schleps we get schlep economics. We are to the point we were warned about. When more than half the people can be bribed from the national treasury the Republic is at an end.

I'm an optimist, but if the H. Rodham or B. Hussein get elected than optimism will take a hit.

247 littleben  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:34:22am

My fellow Americans;

Our nation must address the ugly red baiting in our capitalist history.I call for an open and frank discussion of the excesses of both sides of this issue.
Some have called for me to reject my father's teachings. However I can no more renounce him, than I can disassociate myself from my dear Uncle, Rev Wright.
Although I do disagree with some of his positions, I can no more throw him under a bus than I can, my dear typically white grandfather, who although was a predatory capitalist and stole from old ladies, I love dearly to this day.

Sincerely,
BHO

248 rightside  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:35:09am

re: #213 Susanl

My sincere condolences.

249 ec marm  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:35:34am

re: #218 realwest

Oh, you'll be able to read my e-mail, my friend! LOL!
Sorry about my post #211, but I'm just pissed off that I've paid into SS and Medicare WAAAY more than I'll ever get out of it.


Same here, real. I started paying into that system at 14 years of age. By the age of 16, I was already working three part time jobs. Went right into the workforce after high school and had to pay my own way through college (night school) during the Reagan years. Eventually the 'good' economic times of Reagan came to a screeching halt and it was back to working two and three jobs again.
While some never worked in high school, took six years to get a degree, then another four to get a higher degree, and finally began paying into the system only after they hit thirty.
Pisses me that some will work a little over thirty years while others will end up working more than fifty years. But, if they raise the retirement age, it applies to everyone. One fucked up system.

250 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:35:35am

re: #245 maddogg Why thanks for telling me that maddogg! I do appreciate it.
Of Course, the centrel message was that WE have all let it come to this.
For me to get the cancer care I'm likely to need, there's another "supplement" to Medicare I'd have to ADD to what I described above and I just can't afford to buy it.
Damn need to eat!

251 Catttt  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:35:46am

re: #211 realwest

{ {realwest} }

252 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:36:32am

Everything I need to know about communism I learned from my grandmother. Somebody denounced her family for having two loaves of bread. She hid one in the ashes and they whole family was lined up at gunpoint in the snow while the authorities searched her house.

This is where the "progressives" will take us.

253 Sol Roth  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:38:14am

re: #232 Bill Dalasio

Patriot Employers Act - Amends the Internal Revenue Code to allow a taxpayer certified as a Patriot employer by the Secretary of the Treasury a tax credit for one percent of such employer's taxable income..

Can't see this as more than a token credit. It sounds more like campaign, slight-of-hand pandering.

Obama's Global Poverty Act (S.2433) would:

The legislation would commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, which amounts to a phenomenal 13-year total of $845 billion over and above what the U.S. already spends.

That's Global Socialism.

254 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:38:25am

re: #104 Dave the...

If we had 100% taxation, I would be running the biggest black market system in the land.

All unreported income.

You've obviously never had a close and personal encounter with the IRS.

255 Macker  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:39:42am

re: #205 unrealizedviewpoint and re: #185 haakondahl

Buzzsawmonkey and Who Watches the Watchmen brought it up in this thread and weren't dinged down for it; therefore, I see it as open for discussion. If you don't like it, too fuckin' bad! Or don't you have the balls to ding them down too like you did me!

256 Silhouette  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:39:47am

So he gets his economic ideals from an open communist, and his moral/ethical/spiritual ideals from a white-hating, Jew-hating, America-hating loon.

Okay then.

But he is Change! (not Bush) we can believe in! (Not Hillary) /

257 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:40:03am

re: #105 Sizzlack

Oh of course. If had to make toys for kids all day knowing that I essentially was not getting paid, I certainly wouldnt pay much attention to how well I did my job. But how does this make sense to anyone?

Hence the saying among residents of the USSR:
"We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us"

258 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:40:21am

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yup, I'm resigned to the fact every dollar I "contribute" to SS is being pissed away and I'll never see a fucking dime of it.

Your employer added a dollar for each of yours - where could it all be?

259 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:41:02am

re: #249 ec marm WOW, we coulda been twins separated at birth!
Same thing with me - worked 2 or 3 jobs to get through college, and law school (the GI Bill for Vietnam Era Vets - at MY pay grade - was a flat $200 a month for tuition, room, board and books) and I worked for 36 years (albeit I didn't make much while in the Army and couldn't work more than that one job, LOL!). Fully expected to work for another 6-10 years before the cancer got me.
Well, fuck, no use complaining about it - nobody in a position to do anything about it will, cause they'll never need Social Security OR Medicare!

260 Sol Roth  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:42:28am

re: #252 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Everything I need to know about communism I learned from my grandmother. Somebody denounced her family for having two loaves of bread. She hid one in the ashes and they whole family was lined up at gunpoint in the snow while the authorities searched her house.

This is where the "progressives" will take us.

That complete story needs to go in the "Never Forget" section.

261 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:43:24am

re: #251 Cattt {Cattt} thanks for the hugs! I appreciate 'em!

262 realwest  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:46:08am

Well y'all it's been grand but I gotta eat so I can take my afternoon meds and my medicinally induced afternoon nap! LOL!
I hope you all have a GREAT DAY and that I get the chance to see you down the road!

263 Sol Roth  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:48:01am

re: #211 realwest

Yup. They've raised the age at which you can get full benefits to 66 or 67 now. Still can "retire" at 62, but you only get something like 60% of what you get at full retirement.
And it's OUR FAULT - WE'VE let the government raid the SS Fund (and Medicare*, btw) for generations now.
*As an example ONLY: to get parts A and B of Medicare now costs you $98.63 per month. Under that you're not "insured" for any drugs, and you're responsible for 20% of any tests, x-rays, hospital stays and doctors bills. If you get Part C - to cover that 20% not covered under A + B, it costs you another $278.38 per month. So to be covered for what Medicare ALLOWS for doctor visits, hospital stays, tests, x-rays etc, and prescripton drug benefits (varies but it's around $50.00 a month) you will have to pay NOW, something like $427 per month. That's for EVERYONE on Social Security now; the fact that I'm on Social Security Disability Insurance because of my inability to work because of my cancer doesn't change anything at all. Well, except I have to reach age 67 (as opposed to 66) to get my full SS benefits instead of SSDI.
That amount is MORE THAN 24% of my SSDI monthly income. At age 62 (63 this Friday). And even if I should by some miracle live to be 67, that amount is gonna jump WAAAY more than the amount I get under SSDI.
And I'm informed that Medicare is in WORSE shape than Social Security.

There. I second that rant as it is a good and healthy one.

Let. It. Out.

264 galloping granny  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:48:25am

re: #258 debutaunt

Your employer added a dollar for each of yours - where could it all be?

As it was originally conceived the SS money was supposed to be held in trust for future recipients - period. However, the US government has been dipping into the funds and robbing Peter to pay Paul since the 70's. It has all been frittered away for pork and pet project.

265 Macker  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:48:28am

re: #232 Bill Dalasio

Hmmm...if that's the case, that'd make Obama a (closet) Islamofascist. Imagine that.

266 Yankee Division Son  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:51:49am

re: #234 realwest
You may be right, but I hope McCain has been paying attention to all the mud flinging in the dem primary and taking notes to pound the crap out of him/her in the general..

267 ec marm  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:52:01am

re: #259 realwest


Well, fuck, no use complaining about it - nobody in a position to do anything about it will, cause they'll never need Social Security OR Medicare!


No, I think we still need to complain about it. We've been screwed, and big time. But if we don't keep reminding people how much folks like us contributed to that system, they'll screw us even more. Any talk of raising the retirement age on people that have already worked half a century or at least tossed "X" amount of dollars into the system is harsh. Especially on men, with the lowered life expectancy.

268 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:52:24am

re: #176 JohnnyReb

And I am not going to get nearly anywhere close to what I would have gotten if the Govt let me put my and my employers match into something like a 401K. And I am one of the lucky ones born before 1960 that the Govt knows not to mess around with as we have a 75% plus voting rate.

Over at the Coyote blog he had a piece about the current SS system and it turns out it has a negative rate of return. Scary stuff. I have told my son to not even think he is going to get one cent of his SS money back.

Actually the government has already messed with the boomer generation to the point of raising the age for full benefits to 67.

Greatest generation received returns on SS money equivalent to a well invested stock portfolio.
Boomer generation will approximately break even.
Gen X will get a negative return.

269 Macker  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:52:41am

re: #264 galloping granny

That trust fund, had it not even been touched, could have been earning shitloads more for their recipients. But NOOO, Congress had to raid the damn thing.
Fuckers.

270 CapeCoddah  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:53:03am

To paraphrase,, Obamas Mother was always touting his fathers "highblown Ideals" Was this before or after he abandoned his family? Some Ideals.

271 maddogg  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:55:47am

BTW realwest, happy premature birthday. And many more.

272 rightymouse  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:55:51am

Lefties who are enamored with communism, especially today when it has historically proven to be disastrously flawed economically and fatal for human life, still cannot/don't want to see past the front of their noses.

Am not sure what the allure could be, considering that 99.9% of them would be relegated to the peasant/worker class and killed off if they dared question their impoverishment/lot in life. And killed, by the way, by their own elite that they helped put in power.

273 jcm  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 10:57:00am

re: #252 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Everything I need to know about communism I learned from my grandmother. Somebody denounced her family for having two loaves of bread. She hid one in the ashes and they whole family was lined up at gunpoint in the snow while the authorities searched her house.

This is where the "progressives" will take us.

I learned at my families table when we where in Iran. A Jewish family had come across the border from Russia. The matriarch had survived the German camps as a child, and the Russia Gulags as an adult.

274 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:05:29am

Yes, let's be like the communists!

The Democrats really HAVEN'T changed since world war 22 and Alger Hiss.

Support the Communists, hold up the anti-american scum and degrade anyone who points out the results of communism (like, say, standing in line for hours for stale bread, over 100 million dead, 70 year famine (blamed on 'bad weather' by the commies), and extreme poverty for all but the ruling class.)

Yes, let's be like them. That'd be swell.

Like the chinese who remove firearms, for the good of the people, then oppress them.

Yes, let's be like them. That'd be great.

Like the USSR, which arrested and tortured/killed people who spoke out against communism or against the government (Let's see, how many anti-bush nutters have we executed? Oh yeah, none.).

Yes, let's be like them. What a plan.

275 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:07:34am

In Congress, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. — The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

(TBC)

276 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:08:32am

...

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free system of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislature, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have we been wanting in attention to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

277 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:08:54am

Take that away, communists.

278 JohnnyReb  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:09:38am

re: #211 realwest

Trust me I feel your pain. Me and the wife both retired from the Navy. We fell for the free medical care for life BS. Well free medical care costs us $547 for medical and another $547 for dental. Then we get to pay all of those co-pays for doctors visits, etc. Now Congress wants to double our premimums and co-pays. Plus when we hit 65 we have to enroll in Medicare Parts A and B and pay the premimums before the Navy will pay for anything.

I just had a filling replaced and my co-pay was double what the government paid. One more filling and I will lose money this year.

Granted this is cheap health insurance compared to most people, but it ain't free like it was promised.

So much for free health care from retiring in the military.

279 harrylook  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:09:46am

Say, Obama must have written something while he was at Harvard. When can we get our hands on that?

What about Hillary's college thesis?

Have these already come out, and I've missed them?

280 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:11:25am

This is classic 1960s elite European-socialist-generated African political thought. Obama Sr. was simply a product of his time.

Here's a nutshell - with this as starting guidance, ya'll can do some further research - guess it is in fact now relevent to this US election:
When the former African colonies became independent, socialism and communism were the goals, usually gussied up as "African socialism." The rhetoric was to work the idea of the African village and extended family as a form of "socialism" so that "socialism" and thus one step beyond to communism, were already "natural" to Africa, unlike "capitalism." This "African socialism" was pervasive and dominated political thought for everyone at Independence and the establishment of the new national governments. It was very attractive sounding and country after country went for it.
Of course, it was the Cold War and the Soviets were heavily feeding this, trying to worm their way into Africa. Thus the roots for all the local armed conflicts - Mozambique, Angola, etc etc. were Soviet proxy fights.
In Kenya, the Kikuyu Jomo Kenyatta became the first president. Kenyatta did not meddle with the free markets as did Jules Nyerere of Tanzania, right next door. Nyerere wanted to be known as "Teacher" "Mwalimu" rather than "President." He imposed draconian communist "reforms" collectivising villages, state ownership of everything, etc etc. He wrecked Tanzania's economy. WRECKED!
In Kenya, the Luo tribal group of Western Kenya, the major rivals to the Kikuyu, had Tom Mboya, who was assassinated, which of course help deepen the anger and distrust of Luos against the Kikuyus. The general feature of the Luo tribal/political direction was socialism and communism. Thus, we see Obama Sr., a Luo, was a member of an ethnic group that heavily favored communism, to make Kenya like Tanzania. The Kikuyu dominated governments, generally speaking may be corrupt, but they have been more free market business oriented. The successor to Mboya was Odinga Odinga, who evidently was well courted by the Soviets as they tried to make more inroads into Kenya and the Luos tried to get more poltical clout. Odinga's son is the man who just ran for president who's unleashing of brutal ethnic violence after the contested election forced the sitting president, Kibaki and the Kikuyus to the negotiating table. So, socialism and communism have been a feature of Luo political thought for decades.

Now, add to the mix, the general East AFrican (Uganda/Kenya/Tanzania) strong dislike of Asians - that is Indians - who controlled the lion's share of business, manufacturing and investment in East Africa. (Many of the Indians were descendents of those brought by the Brits to build the railway system.) Idi Amin, after he took power in Uganda, manipulated this resentment and gained huge popularity when he siezed Indian-owned businesses and tossed Indians en masse out of Uganda.

So, Obama Senior's writings reflect almost perfectly the prevailing conceits of the time. Pathetically, Obama Junior did not have to live through the turmoil and chaos socialism and communism caused in the new countries, so he seems to think it's great stuff. Former African rebel leaders, once self-named communists who actually took up arms and lived in the bush for decades, and became themselves presidents and/or senior ranking officials in governance now speak reflectively on the mistake of communism and socialism - that these two closely allied systems crippled Africans at a time when they needed to be let loose to grow and prosper. Today's Africans, having their fill of failed socialism, are looking to the American free market model to bring prosperity to their countries.

281 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:13:43am

re: #252 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Somebody denounced her family for having two loaves of bread. She hid one in the ashes

A-HA! So you admit she was guilty of having two loaves of bread!

282 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:13:43am

re: #49 Peacekeeper

Hillary is Al Capone to Barack's Stalin. Stick with the mob I say.

When there was a French presidential runoff election between corrupt Gaullist party leader Jacques ChIraq [enough said] and antisemite neofascist whackjob Jean-Marie Le Pen, one of the slogans used was "vote for the crook --- it's important".

Wasn't this also a slogan once in Missisippi, when it was a crook running against David "cesspool" Duke?

283 jenv  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:13:53am

re: #34 laZardo

An Islamic Communist?

/brain fizzle!


Since both are totalitarian ideologies that deny free will and the rights of individuals, they are quite compatible. Listen to some of the rhetoric coming out of the Middle East these days. It's strikingly communist in tone and content.

284 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:14:24am

re: #283 jenv

Just waiting for some imam to suggest that islam created communism.

285 gymnast  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:18:30am

re: #267 ec marm

No, I think we still need to complain about it. We've been screwed, and big time. But if we don't keep reminding people how much folks like us contributed to that system, they'll screw us even more. Any talk of raising the retirement age on people that have already worked half a century or at least tossed "X" amount of dollars into the system is harsh. Especially on men, with the lowered life expectancy.

Thats OK, with a "national health care system" it should be possible to lower the life expectancy of Americans and bring the system back into balance. Maybe all thats required is a little tweaking of the FDA to relax quality standards and further diversify their workforce?

286 Silhouette  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:19:21am

re: #275 LanceKates

for opposing with manly firmness his invasions

Who knew the Declaration was kinky?

287 zmdavid  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:19:34am

re: #282 Former Belgian

Wasn't this also a slogan once in Missisippi, when it was a crook running against David "cesspool" Duke?


It was in Louisiana.

288 bunker buster  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:21:18am

re: #284 LanceKates

Just waiting for some imam to suggest that islam created communism.

It's well-known that Red Square is the 4,983rd holiest site in Islam.

289 wolfie  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:21:35am

re: #280 wanumba
Wonderful post...to provide context and to provoke further thought and reading.
Thanks!

290 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:22:39am

re: #286 Silhouette

It's all personal preference. heh.

291 Bunker Buster  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:23:07am

re: #286 Silhouette

for opposing with manly firmness his invasions

Who knew the Declaration was kinky?

What did you expect from a bunch of oppressive, patriarchal, phallocentrist white men?

/sarc

292 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:23:10am

re: #288 bunker buster

I knew I disliked it for a reason.

293 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:23:29am

re: #291 Bunker Buster

What did you expect from a bunch of oppressive, patriarchal, phallocentrist white men?

/sarc

TYPICAL white men.

294 Bunker Buster  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:24:45am

re: #293 LanceKates

Just so. I'm sure that's what Barack Hussein Mugabe Obama would say.

295 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:25:05am

Semi-OT:

I actually heard the NPR "On the Media" hit piece on Mark Steyn this weekend, which he mentions here (and elsewhere in NRO's The Corner). When the islamist apologist stated that "Mark Steyn says we 'breed like moquitoes'", I shouted "liar!" at the car radio. Well, shouted, internally. A peaceful, inner shouting. Anyway. Just prior to that, the show was interviewing some political common-'tater, and the conversation revolved around the topic; should the media be reporting the Hillary campaign as still viable? By doing this, aren't we just contributing to continuing infighting and weakness in the Democratic Party? Underlying the whole debate, of course, was the assumption that the media have an ethical duty to help the Dems win the general election. An assumption that went entirely unquestioned during the piece. Yet, as Jonah Goldberg notes at The Corner, "On the Media" love to bash on the theme of what a Big Lie it is to suggest the US media are politically biased/left-leaning.

296 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:25:46am

re: #280 wanumba

Many thanks for this helpful 'deep background' piece.

297 incanus  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:26:07am

re: #295 Occasional Reader

Semi-OT:

I actually heard the NPR "On the Media" hit piece on Mark Steyn this weekend, which he mentions here (and elsewhere in NRO's The Corner). When the islamist apologist stated that "Mark Steyn says we 'breed like moquitoes'", I shouted "liar!" at the car radio. Well, shouted, internally. A peaceful, inner shouting. Anyway. Just prior to that, the show was interviewing some political common-'tater, and the conversation revolved around the topic; should the media be reporting the Hillary campaign as still viable? By doing this, aren't we just contributing to continuing infighting and weakness in the Democratic Party? Underlying the whole debate, of course, was the assumption that the media have an ethical duty to help the Dems win the general election. An assumption that went entirely unquestioned during the piece. Yet, as Jonah Goldberg notes at The Corner, "On the Media" love to bash on the theme of what a Big Lie it is to suggest the US media are politically biased/left-leaning.

The thought police are on the way. Do not resist.

298 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:28:37am

re: #280 wanumba

Now, add to the mix, the general East AFrican (Uganda/Kenya/Tanzania) strong dislike of Asians - that is Indians

"That's unpossible!" Everyone knows that only white people can be racist!

299 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:29:08am

re: #297 incanus

The thought police are on the way. Do not resist.

'Thought Police' sounds so scary and cold, so they're called 'Worldview Reducation Helpers'

300 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:30:08am

re: #298 Occasional Reader

Specifically RICH white men... but, I repeat myself, for we are all rich who are of the white persuasion.

We keep the gold in little bags around our neck, like Cartman said of the Jews.

301 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:30:47am

re: #299 LanceKates

'Thought Police' sounds so scary and cold, so they're called 'Worldview Reducation Helpers'

That's one branch. The other is called "Diversity Outreach Counselors".

302 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:32:42am

I know we cannot visit the sins of the fathers unto the sons. And G-d knows Marxism, 'that magnificent fraud' (R. A. Heinlein), magnetically attracts a particular type of college student. Many of them come to their senses when they get older or 'mugged by reality'. (I know I did.)

But still: the fact that a serious contender for POTUS considers an outright Communist to be one of his spiritual mentors (with the spectacularly IrReverend Jeremiah Wrong) is disturbing in the extreme. Especially since I see little sign of him having disavowed any of that rhetoric.

303 incanus  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:33:36am

re: #301 Occasional Reader

That's one branch. The other is called "Diversity Outreach Counselors".

You forgot the third (and most numerous) branch, the National Education Association.

304 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:34:15am

Ah, two other "On the Media" topics from Saturday were:

1) How terrible it is that people "vandalize" Obama's Wiki page;

and

2) The author of a book called True Enough, lamenting the terrible death of fact-based reasoning, and citing, of course, as a prime example of this... The Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, whose claims about Kerry were "debunked". Uh, got a source for that, lefty? No mention of, oh, say, Memogate, for instance.

Nope, no left-wing bias here.

305 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:34:36am

re: #255 Macker

and re: #185 haakondahl

Buzzsawmonkey and Who Watches the Watchmen brought it up in this thread and weren't dinged down for it; therefore, I see it as open for discussion. If you don't like it, too fuckin' bad! Or don't you have the balls to ding them down too like you did me!

You seemingly are incapable of seeing the difference between what they said and what you are saying:

re: #162 Macker

My brother-in-law would call Kwanzaa the "(N-word) Christmas." While I would not use such verbage, I certainly agree that those days (notice I don't call them holidays) smack of total Socialism.

Hello? Why the unnecessary N-word use? It has no bearing nor reference and serves only to demean and torment an entire race of people. It's a racist comment you placed while using the cover of: "what your brother said." When you repeated your brothers words (unnecessarily here BTW) you demonstrated your racism. I'll call racism when I see racism.

306 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:35:02am

re: #301 Occasional Reader

Oh heavens no!

We don't want diversity... if people are different, then we may become jealous of one another.

We need to make sure everyone is the same!

Dress the same, walk the same, act the same... THINK the same...

That can only be achieved by total dependence upon the government for everything, which a communist government is more than happy to have.

After all, they loved Big Brother.

307 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:35:38am

re: #302 Former Belgian

considers an outright Communist to be one of his spiritual mentors

Hey, Wright isn't a communist... not in his new, lultra-uxury home... he just wants YOU to be a communist.

308 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:36:24am

re: #307 Occasional Reader

just as Al Gore isn't a green person, but wants US to be.

309 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:38:03am

This kind of green person, not this kind of green person.

(In case James T. Kirk is reading)

310 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:38:21am

re: #305 unrealizedviewpoint


Hello? Why the unnecessary N-word use?

Agreed. And the "oh, my brother-in-law says this" excuse... puh-leeze. Macker, I dinged you down, too, and reported the post.

311 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:39:29am

re: #310 Occasional Reader

My brother in law predicts that if it is an obama-hillary ticket with obama as pres, he'd be assassinated.

Though he is a hardcore lefty (Despite military service) and I am a hardcore righty (despite no military service), we agree on that issue.

312 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:39:48am

actually, I take that back. He's my half-brother, not brother in law.

313 EE  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:42:37am

There are (at least) two kinds of lies: lies of commission, and lies of omission. By writing an autobiography -- Dreams From my Father -- and leaving out the Marxist orientation of his father, Obama is showing a talent for lies of omission.

Obama also didn't tell us that his spiritual mentor and political mentor, Jeremiah Wright, was a raving racist, anti-American moonbat, and antisemitic bigot. What else has he forgotten to tell us?

314 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:44:26am

re: #313 EE

What a great example.

Obama and Hillary. One a master of omission the other of commission.

315 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:45:32am

re: #310 Occasional Reader

Agreed. And the "oh, my brother-in-law says this" excuse... puh-leeze. Macker, I dinged you down, too, and reported the post.

Reporting has no effect unfortunately, or rather fortunately. He's not threatening violence towards another in POST #162. He has freedom of expression here, even racist expression. All we can do is ding him down, call him on it, embarrass him and the likes of him.

316 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:47:33am

re: #315 unrealizedviewpoint

As this blog belongs to charles and not the federal government, we each only have the 'freedoms' that charles grants. If he decides to, he can delete any post, at any time.

He is not responsible for any posts left, but he does have full right to delete posts on his blog as he sees fit.

317 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:51:41am

Thanks everyone ... five minutes ago, coincidently just spoke to an regular East African hand and said only this nothing more, "You'll like this. Here's Obama's father's short list of things to do ... 100% taxation .. ." and on down the list that's posted up there.

The reply was a shrug and an instantaneous, "Well, that sums up a Luo for you."

Glad to see this is helping everyone make sense of what at first seemed will-nilly. Shouldn't be a surprise then that Obama gravitated to Wright as a replacement father figure. Too bad, but not a surprise.

318 wolfie  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:52:48am

re: #306 LanceKates

Oh heavens no!

We don't want diversity... if people are different, then we may become jealous of one another.

We need to make sure everyone is the same!

Dress the same, walk the same, act the same... THINK the same...

That can only be achieved by total dependence upon the government for everything, which a communist government is more than happy to have.

After all, they loved Big Brother.

Liberte, egalite, fraternite!

My father (may he rest in peace) used to say that when the lefties say their gonna "give" you something, you better hide your wallet; when they say they're gonna "liberate" you better run for the hills like an outlaw chased by hounds; and when they cry "diversity," you might as well get in line now for your uniform fitting.
The left, it is true, doesn't mind if you are Catholic or Jew, Fwench or American...as long as you really aren't...as long as it's just your background and you have abandoned it for the new, universal creed of the Left.

319 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:53:27am

re: #316 LanceKates

As this blog belongs to charles and not the federal government, we each only have the 'freedoms' that charles grants. If he decides to, he can delete any post, at any time.

He is not responsible for any posts left, but he does have full right to delete posts on his blog as he sees fit.

Well I'll go report it then. Possibly Charles will delete it for being the obscene comment that it is.

Signed, typical white guy, unrealizedviewpoint

320 mattm  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:54:23am

BHO and shillary are for starting socialism "for the children" or some other BS.

321 wolfie  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:56:49am

re: #320 mattm

BHO and shillary are for starting socialism "for the children" or some other BS.

Yeah. It's always for the children!
Which is why I'm so worried about my children and the world they'll be facing!

322 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 11:59:35am

re: #321 wolfie

Interesting that a government wants to take your money to spend on people you'll never meet and says if it is for the sake of your children.

If it WAS for the sake of your children, they'd let you keep the money to actually spend... on your children.

323 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:00:30pm

re: #316 LanceKates

As this blog belongs to charles and not the federal government, we each only have the 'freedoms' that charles grants. If he decides to, he can delete any post, at any time.

He is not responsible for any posts left, but he does have full right to delete posts on his blog as he sees fit.


I don't even know the rules here. I could NEVER be a monitor. :)

324 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:01:51pm

re: #323 unrealizedviewpoint

lol... I don't know if that is the rules here, per se, but that is the balance of freedom of speech on the internet.

That's why I could never be an anarchist. They want freedoms to do everything without the responsibilities for their actions.

325 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:02:31pm

be back in a bit. There is some animal that needs eating.

326 Alan Furman  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:08:39pm

re: #72 Russkilitlover

Wasn't BHO a toddler when dad went out for milk and never came back?

As a collectivist, he had actually gone out for milk for all the children of Kenya! Wotta guy!

How can you be so close to someone's thoughts and ideals when you never see him? The answer is that you manufacture a fantasy person.

...to inhabit your postcolonial collectivist utopia.

re: #6 haakondahl

This is what they teach economists at Harvard?

Not as bad as it used to be; it seems that even econ profs have taken note of why the commies lost the Cold War (who knew?).

327 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:08:57pm
328 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:10:41pm
329 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:11:14pm

re: #324 LanceKates

lol... I don't know if that is the rules here, per se, but that is the balance of freedom of speech on the internet.

That's why I could never be an anarchist. They want freedoms to do everything without the responsibilities for their actions.

As I repeat to my daughter over and over,
in Hebrew, there is only one letter difference (and one transposition) between the words for "freedom" (chet-yud-resh-vav-tav, pronounce "kheiroot") and "responsibility" (aleph-chet-resh-yud-vav-tav, pronounced "akhrayoot").

330 eaglewingz08  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:11:27pm

My this fits perfectly with Politico.com and its finding that Obama's other mentor was a certain Frank Davis, a poet mentioned in his first book (conveniently leaving out his commie ties like the Obamination always leaves out the horrific backgrounds of his spiritual and political mentors-is it racist to mention a pattern of African American politicians when they go the Stalinist route?). It seems that the commies had a speech at New York University in 2007 that did not get wide mention, but the speaker did know of our Barack, and his ties to that certain Commie mentor. I posted this on this board, but it sank like a led balloon. It seems than no one here wants to regard Barack Obamanation as a dyed in the wool commie. So sad. Maybe this will breed new life into the other people in the Obamanation's past who weaned him on the old RED white and blue.

331 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:13:14pm

re: #320 mattm

BHO and shillary are for starting socialism "for the children" or some other BS.

There will be a charming village and lots of diverse people all raising the beautiful children to share everything.

332 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:14:18pm

re: #298 Occasional Reader
Ha!
Seriously though, for everyone, East Africans and Indians have a very uneasy relationship. The Indians in East Africa are highly entreprenuerial and very active. They DO provide jobs for Africans, but the glass ceiling is very low - they do not train Africans for upper levels. That's reserved for Indians, particularly relatives. So, all the best work is held by Indians who pay off government officials as needed to be left alone.
So, as a general stereotype, Indians live in wealth and Africans get all the menial jobs. Doesn't help matters AT ALL that Indians are caste oriented, the darker the skin, the lower the caste. Uh, oh. Even though Africans are not technically in the Indian Hindu caste system, being Africans of course, the Indian trained reaction to dark skin is going to be negative.
When Idi Amin seized Indian business and assets and booted out the Indians (called Asians) he was riding a wave of populism that threatened to slosh into Kenya and Tanzania as well, to sweep out their Asian populations. It subsided after a while when Uganda's markets essentially collapsed. But, E. Africans still usually despise Asians, but they need the work.

Oh, Obama Sr's reference up there to Europeans was the attitude against the British colonial Kenya population (read farm/land owners) at the cusp of Independence, resentment massaged by socialist class-envy. In other words, to apply Obama Sr's words to today would be anachronistic.

333 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:17:44pm

re: #330 eaglewingz08

My this fits perfectly with Politico.com and its finding that Obama's other mentor was a certain Frank Davis, a poet mentioned in his first book (conveniently leaving out his commie ties like the Obamination always leaves out the horrific backgrounds of his spiritual and political mentors-is it racist to mention a pattern of African American politicians when they go the Stalinist route?). It seems that the commies had a speech at New York University in 2007 that did not get wide mention, but the speaker did know of our Barack, and his ties to that certain Commie mentor. I posted this on this board, but it sank like a led balloon. It seems than no one here wants to regard Barack Obamanation as a dyed in the wool commie. So sad. Maybe this will breed new life into the other people in the Obamanation's past who weaned him on the old RED white and blue.

Many Socialists and social democrats in Europe at least flirted with Marxism in their youth, which does not necessarily make them Marxists now although they tend to all subscribe to the "no enemies to my left" fallacy.

And yes, that you're paranoid doesn't mean people are not out to get you...

334 rightymouse  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:18:34pm

re: #327 taxfreekiller

Even in the full bore commie prison camp North Korea, the human spirit wins out. Commies never win, they just force freedom to fight harder.

Amen.

335 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:20:38pm

re: #332 wanumba

Ha!
. Doesn't help matters AT ALL that Indians are caste oriented, the darker the skin, the lower the caste. Uh, oh. Even though Africans are not technically in the Indian Hindu caste system, being Africans of course, the Indian trained reaction to dark skin is going to be negative.

Interestingly, Indians told me that the "lighter skin = higher caste" rule applies in the more populous Northern parts of India, but that the rule is the opposite in the Indian "Deep South" (Tamil Nadu).

336 Q-Burn  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:23:10pm

But... but... Snoop Dogg says Obama is actually frontin' for the KKK!

(this changes everything...)

337 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:23:55pm

re: #332 wanumba

Doesn't help matters AT ALL that Indians are caste oriented, the darker the skin, the lower the caste.

My mom was a nurse for many years at a health clinic serving low-income communities. They used to get a fair number of doctors from India; the case phenomenon was a huge problem, as many of those doctors would deal with black Americans very rudely.

338 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:29:29pm

re: #329 Former Belgian

I didn't know that, but I often (to my family and friends cringing) rant about how we seem to be forgetting that each right comes with a specific responsibility.

339 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:30:23pm

And if you do not take on the responsibility, you end up giving up that right.

340 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:35:41pm

re: #335 Former Belgian
Wonder if that had to do with the pattern of the conquest - the invaders were able to dominate the north better than the south? Hmm.

Wore: #337 Occasional Reader
The Africans we met in New Delhi couldn't wait to leave India. They were anglophone West Africans - doubtful they knew what they were getting into when they accepted the post. Asian Indians beebop between East AFrica and INda - they're close. A lot of Asians born and bred in Kenya call themselves Kenyas, (what's so odd about that?) but disturbingly, that always elicits a raised eyebrow from many Kenyans.
Americans get all this grief for being racist, but Americans move so much better around the world than quite a number of OTHER nationalities. Can count on ONE hand the number of Hispanics we'd met (5) who were working in Africa - in two decades. Brazilians - they had a presence in Africa, but not Hispanic Latinos.

341 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:36:50pm

re: #340 wanumba

we're really NOT as racist as the left claims.

342 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:37:23pm

ugh
spelling
Kenyan
and all the other boo-boos

343 grumpy old codger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:37:30pm

Another point to consider is that as shortages develop, the government will have to, repeat have to, start rationing services, especially in those high cost areas like chronic, long term, debilitating, terminal illnesses. I would fully expect that shortly after Hussein's coronation, the impact of the high cost of such illnesses and conditions will become a focus.
Do the words like euthanasia, mercy killings (either directly or indirectly, by delayed services, rationing, shortages, etc.) or "a life not worth living (forget the German name for it - when they started killing off patients in insane asyla in the 30's)" come to mind?
After all, the old will have become a drain on the vibrant economy and what good could they contribute to the new workers' paradise? The typical young Hussein fanatic won't even imagine that they'll be in the same boat down the line.

344 Daisy  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:39:08pm

re: #21 Fo knee ix

So Obama idolizes the father who abandoned him. Interesting.

He apparently also idealizes the Marxist mother who dumped him back in the States when he was 10 years old. Dumping him made her less encumbered, I'm guessing, w/the new husband and kids - and after all, she was busy - she had to save the world from freedom.

The Commie parental manifesto = "Don't bother me, it takes a village dammit".

345 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:40:28pm

re: #343 grumpy old codger

But, it is for the good of the children . . .

Logan's Run comes to mind. heh.

But you're right. Of course, there would be no 'rationing' for Congress, so they'd never feel it (and therefore have no problem creating such bills)

Frankly, how else can we describe Robert Byrd?

346 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:41:08pm

re: #341 LanceKates

we're really NOT as racist as the left claims.

I have suspected that the left is very racist.

347 WOHBuckeye  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:48:35pm

Once word of this gets out, his donations from Hollywood will quadruple.

348 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:50:34pm

re: #346 debutaunt


Long ago I suggested here at LGF (and still believe) that the left tries to steal the conservatives' virtues and cast upon the conservative the left's vices.

The left, I hold, is racist, classist, corrupt, cold-hearted and very useless.

The conservatives are diverse, always encouraging the poor to strive and become rich, based on each person taking responsibility for themselves, striving toward benefit for all and for developing the United States into an even greater nation.


Whereas a liberal believes that 'government funding' is the answer to any problem, and bases success on dollars spent or numbers enrolled, a conservative bases success upon the ability of people to become independent, which is true freedom.

349 Daisy  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:53:12pm

re: #332 wanumba

"In other words, to apply Obama Sr's words to today would be anachronistic."

wnaumba, it may be anachronistic to apply Obama Sr's specific words/proposals for collectivism/socialism - but you aren't suggesting, are you, that the ideals espoused in his socialistic dogma have altered?

Obama has been quite successful at keeping his real belief system covert. I think it's safe to say that he admires his father's Marxist ideology - even if the specifics no longer apply - I'm sure he'd be glad to apply the ideology to all manner of current day conditions - e.g., he has admitted his agenda for Universal Health Care.

350 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:56:16pm

re: #349 Daisy

I'm a Christian... one of those pesky people that the left seems to hate, unless I am racist. (well, I am white, but anyway...)

There is a biblical concept. He who can be trusted with more will receive more, he who can not be trusted with little will have what is his taken away.

The government has not proven to be a wise steward of little, yet they continue to take much.

That is the essence of the left. Take what is not yours and use it as you see fit...

That is also the essence of piracy. Piracy is illegal, but communism lives on.

351 Gumby  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:58:53pm

re: #86 itellu3times

It's for the children.

And... there are reports there are about 340,000 LESS children around due to abortion.

Sorry for no link, I haven't figured out how to link to Laura Ingraham's radio program yet.

352 Spiny Norman  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:59:03pm

re: #344 Daisy

He apparently also idealizes the Marxist mother who dumped him back in the States when he was 10 years old. Dumping him made her less encumbered, I'm guessing, w/the new husband and kids - and after all, she was busy - she had to save the world from freedom.

The Commie parental manifesto = "Don't bother me, it takes a village dammit".

Bingo!

A common affliction among the international Left. Comintern lives!

353 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 12:59:34pm

re: #351 Gumby

Pity. Many would be grown enough by now to start paying into social security.

354 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:03:32pm

re: #348 LanceKates

Long ago I suggested here at LGF (and still believe) that the left tries to steal the conservatives' virtues and cast upon the conservative the left's vices.

The left, I hold, is racist, classist, corrupt, cold-hearted and very useless.

The conservatives are diverse, always encouraging the poor to strive and become rich, based on each person taking responsibility for themselves, striving toward benefit for all and for developing the United States into an even greater nation.


Whereas a liberal believes that 'government funding' is the answer to any problem, and bases success on dollars spent or numbers enrolled, a conservative bases success upon the ability of people to become independent, which is true freedom.

Excellent post. You stated what I believe to be true.

355 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:05:17pm

re: #354 debutaunt

Just the views of a gun nut from oklahoma.

*grin*

356 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:05:52pm

re: #343 grumpy old codger

Another point to consider is that as shortages develop, the government will have to, repeat have to, start rationing services, especially in those high cost areas like chronic, long term, debilitating, terminal illnesses. I would fully expect that shortly after Hussein's coronation, the impact of the high cost of such illnesses and conditions will become a focus.
Do the words like euthanasia, mercy killings (either directly or indirectly, by delayed services, rationing, shortages, etc.) or "a life not worth living (forget the German name for it - when they started killing off patients in insane asyla in the 30's)" come to mind?
After all, the old will have become a drain on the vibrant economy and what good could they contribute to the new workers' paradise? The typical young Hussein fanatic won't even imagine that they'll be in the same boat down the line.

Why do you think there was such pressure in Belgium and Holland to adopt these insane euthanasia laws? (The whole medical profession there knows that abuse of the laws --- as in "euthanizing" patients that did not request this --- is rampant.)

This aside from the "softer" approach in the UK, where certain procedures simply won't be performed beyond certain ages, as long as you have to pu up with the NHS. (At least in the UK, unlike Canada, those who do have the money or additional insurance can seek private care.)

357 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:07:38pm

re: #348 LanceKates

Long ago I suggested here at LGF (and still believe) that the left tries to steal the conservatives' virtues and cast upon the conservative the left's vices.

The left, I hold, is racist, classist, corrupt, cold-hearted and very useless.

The conservatives are diverse, always encouraging the poor to strive and become rich, based on each person taking responsibility for themselves, striving toward benefit for all and for developing the United States into an even greater nation.


Whereas a liberal believes that 'government funding' is the answer to any problem, and bases success on dollars spent or numbers enrolled, a conservative bases success upon the ability of people to become independent, which is true freedom.

In one phrase: "Equality of opportunity" vs. "Equality of outcome".

358 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:10:06pm

re: #357 Former Belgian

I generally refer to it as freedom or dependence.

Or, when speaking about the liberals: "Smelly hippie."

359 mac  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:11:28pm

The only difference between 1% income tax and 100% income tax is the degree of our enslavement. The question is, how much of your life is owned by the state.

We have already agreed to the principle that our freedom can be taken from us by voting.

360 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:13:27pm

re: #343 grumpy old codger

Another point to consider is that as shortages develop, the government will have to, repeat have to, start rationing services, especially in those high cost areas like chronic, long term, debilitating, terminal illnesses. I would fully expect that shortly after Hussein's coronation, the impact of the high cost of such illnesses and conditions will become a focus.
Do the words like euthanasia, mercy killings (either directly or indirectly, by delayed services, rationing, shortages, etc.) or "a life not worth living (forget the German name for it - when they started killing off patients in insane asyla in the 30's)" come to mind?
After all, the old will have become a drain on the vibrant economy and what good could they contribute to the new workers' paradise? The typical young Hussein fanatic won't even imagine that they'll be in the same boat down the line.

Liberals will of course retort that under capitalism, there will be some who can afford the latest life-saving or life-extending medicine and others who cannot. The difference, of course, is that (at least for sufficiently widespread ailments) there is an incentive for the market to respond with more affordable treatment options.

My caveat stated above: if we're talking, say, a rare metabolic disease that very few people suffer from, and for which it makes no "cold" economic sense to develop a cure, the market will only do something if there's another incentive. I personally knew a woman (meanwhile z"l) who had a very rare disorder where she happened to have the good fortune that one of the others such afflicted was one of the wealthiest men on the planet.

361 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:15:00pm

re: #359 mac

Any society crumbles when the people learn that they can vote themselves more "free" money.

362 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:15:36pm
363 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:16:02pm
364 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:16:53pm
365 mac  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:20:20pm

re: #361 LanceKates

Yep. Some theives use weapons, some use ballot boxes.

366 Daisy  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:20:58pm

re: #350 LanceKates

You say, "That is the essence of the left. Take what is not yours and use it as you see fit..."
Exactly! The eternally self-defeating Left uses all it's ignorant might to render unfit all efforts of the capable and self- motivated who produce all that they want to take for themselves.

And then this,
"That is also the essence of piracy. Piracy is illegal, but communism lives on."
Right. Can we consider Socialism the Organized Crime of the Leftist thuggery?

367 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:25:10pm

re: #365 mac

Very true, and it is up to the good Conservative to struggle for Freedom.

re: #366 Daisy

Exactly! The eternally self-defeating Left uses all it's ignorant might to render unfit all efforts of the capable and self- motivated who produce all that they want to take for themselves.

To the left, independence is a vice. If you are dependent, then you can be controlled. Communism is the same as any other tyranny... a few make the rules for the many, for the sake of the few in charge.

It doesn't matter if it is a despotism, communism, monarchy, etc. There is always a 'we' and a 'they' . . . the few in power always look for more power, at the expense of the many. That is what seperated us from the rest of the world.

And now they want to take it away. So, they go after our guns, knowing that an unarmed society is controlable.

They go after our children, teaching them that dependence is good.

They go after our religion, seperating faith from life so as to ween it away.

Resist!

368 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:28:10pm

re: #143 haakondahl

"White Greed runs a World of Need."

Jeremiah Wright, in his sermon, "The Audacity of Hope", which Obama liked so much he lifted the title of it for his book, and cited it as a formative influence.

And thus we come to it: for his whole life Barack Obama has been influenced by the worst idea of the left. With him as the Democratic nominee, we must win this election. His presidency would be a cataclysm.

369 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:30:13pm
"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

-Louis Dembitz Brandeis


(As quoted to me by LGF Poster UFOTOFU)

370 grumpy old codger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:35:48pm

re: #363 ploome hineni
Same shit, different day.

371 grumpy old codger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:37:00pm

re: #364 ploome hineni

May be in the field doing war exercises. Burn some leaqvened breaqd for me.

372 A.W.  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:37:20pm

Well, Barack Sr. was also a nationalist. Yep, a nationalist socialist.

Nationalism is racism, folks. The notion that a country belongs to a certain ethnicity, and that however legally they enter the country, they can never be full and equal citizens, with the same right to purchase and keep land, is racist. Our consitution actually enshrines the opposite principle: that this is not a white man's country, a red man's country, or belonging to any other color or ethnicity.

So Barack Jr. seems to have surrounded himself with alot of Black nationalists. Hmmm...

373 grumpy old codger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:42:07pm

re: #360 Former Belgian

I agree. I believe the whole thing will be of the "soft sell" variety. you understand, "Well Mt. X, your wife was old and very sick, and well, you know, she would have only gotten worse, and so, it's better, this way..." Have friends of mine in the UK who've told me lots of horror stories. But, hey, NH saved money, right?
The Almighty Euro or Pound?

374 Daisy  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:44:27pm

re: #352 Spiny Norman

"A common affliction among the international Left. Comintern lives!"

You said it! The village is now filled to overbrimming with idiots.

375 sojerofgod  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:50:23pm

I think there is no question that he is so far to the left the term 'MArxist' is not out of line. I still say that his refusal to wear the flag pin or stand for the pledge is telling. A politician makes their bread by pleasing the most people in the crowd to get elected: If he is willing to piss people off with the pledge thing then it REALLY must mean one helluva lot to him.
Obama's not proud to be an American. I've said this many times, so why is he running for president?
Revenge for whatever imagined slights he has received for being born with a dark skin color?

376 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:57:50pm
377 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 1:59:40pm
378 grumpy old codger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 2:04:26pm

Thanks for reminding me about the kosher MRE's. Had forgotten about them. Will check on the Passover special meals, but, knowing the Army, they probably will have have to have ordered 24 months before they're needed.
Field exercises and deployments give me the opportunities to participate in minyans, etc., more so than here on base. In any event, I know I'll be working those days, it's just a matter of where.
They're so short of personnel.

379 grumpy old codger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 2:05:28pm

re: #377 ploome hineni

Only if the glass is half full...of whisky.

380 jenv  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 2:07:22pm

re: #360 Former Belgian

Liberals will of course retort that under capitalism, there will be some who can afford the latest life-saving or life-extending medicine and others who cannot.


This is effectively an argument that it's better for people to suffer or die than for some to be wealthier than others. That's immorality of the highest magnitude.

382 jordanwilliam23  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 2:17:55pm

my first comment...waited a year and a half to be lucky enough to surf the page at the exact moment registration was open..finally happened...dont know what to do with myself now. i will say something profound later!

383 Former Belgian  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 2:26:01pm

re: #380 jenv

This is effectively an argument that it's better for people to suffer or die than for some to be wealthier than others. That's immorality of the highest magnitude.

No argument from me there.

My own experience with socialized medicine in Belgium and Israel is that in any case "all are equal but some are more equal than others". Just that the "more equal" derives not from money but from having connections in the system or from status markers other than money. For obvious reasons, the New Class finds this system much more congenial, since THEY would be the ones that would be getting class A treatment while still being able to lull themselves into thinking this is fairer.

Look, any scarce resource is going to have unequal access. The solution is not to force rationing from above, but to create incentives for increasing supply.

384 LanceKates  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 2:53:38pm

re: #382 jordanwilliam23

my first comment...waited a year and a half to be lucky enough to surf the page at the exact moment registration was open..finally happened...dont know what to do with myself now. i will say something profound later!

Now we'll expect great things from you!

385 mich-again  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 2:54:23pm

Obama Sr. must have been an inspiration for Robert Mugabe. Zimbabwe under Mugabe is exactly what the old man proposed. So hows that working out?

386 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 3:27:19pm

re: #385 mich-again

Obama Sr. must have been an inspiration for Robert Mugabe. Zimbabwe under Mugabe is exactly what the old man proposed. So hows that working out?

Mugabe's getting ready to steal another election. Let's make sure we take voter fraud seriously, so his comrade's son doesn't get a chance to pull a trick like that.

387 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 3:50:07pm
388 Jaydee  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 4:10:57pm

**Nice work PrestoPundit**
(have saved your site to my favs)

389 learjetz  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 4:59:20pm

I find it interesting that after Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" was released every interview featured the reporter asking him about his fathers antisemitic statements. Every one of the interviewers. I guess that there was a grain of truth to the implications.

I was wondering why the same people never asked Al Gore if he supported his father when he voted against the civil rights amendment.

Now we have Barack and these bizzarre statements that his father made. Wonder how long it will take before someone from a reputable news outlet asks him if he supports his fathers statements a' la Gibson?

Cue the crickets...

390 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:02:42pm

re: #349 Daisy

"In other words, to apply Obama Sr's words to today would be anachronistic."
wnaumba, it may be anachronistic to apply Obama Sr's specific words/proposals for collectivism/socialism - but you aren't suggesting, are you, that the ideals espoused in his socialistic dogma have altered?
Obama has been quite successful at keeping his real belief system covert. I think it's safe to say that he admires his father's Marxist ideology - even if the specifics no longer apply - I'm sure he'd be glad to apply the ideology to all manner of current day conditions - e.g., he has admitted his agenda for Universal Health Care.


Well, my point was that, judging from Obama Sr.'s thesis, and the fact that he was a Luo, everything he wrote had to be taken in the context of 1960s Soviet expansionism into Africa, that is the Soviets desire that as many as possible of the newly hatched African nations become communist, with the Luo embracing this as an alternative political challenge to the Kikuyu-dominated government right there in Kenya. All politics is local.
Since it was Soviet-communism-fed, there are persistent socialist themes that are constantly being pushed everywhere, like today's favorite "universal health care," even though the Soviet Union is no more, but Obama Sr's focus and interest was making KENYA a Luo-governed communist nation. His main protagonists were really not "Europeans" or "Asians" but other Africans especially the Kikuyu. Which tribal group was going to dominate power at Independence? We know now - Kenyatta emerged as top dog in Kenya. The Luos lost out. They've been OUT for decades. Kenya is in the tank right now due to their challenge to the Kikuyu power structure. Yes, the Kikuyus have been there too long, so all the tribal groups are frustrated, but what's going on right now is prelude to disaster if cooler heads don't prevail.
I'm trying to come up with an analogy that captures this odd circumstance of Obama referring to his father's politics, somehow - maybe something like a person trying to make a whole universe based on a dusty museum display.
A great number of former African communist rebels have turned away from communism, having had practical experience with it and thus determining that it doesn't work. They are active, vibrant and engaged in nation-building, with all the mental and physical challenges that come with it. Very very impressive men with incredible lives and engaging intellects, and very very clear-eyed and practical.
The examples of Kenya and Tanzania make a vivid contrast - similar people, similar countries, sharing a long border, only difference: government. Kenya stayed relatively free market, Tanzania went hard core communist, their claim to fame was "but, yeah, well nearly 100% literacy," but not much to eat and no jobs (similar to Cuba's favorite rebuttal to its deficiences -"but .. yeah, but ... "universal medical care." ) Kenya had agreements with the US and Britain, Tanzania welcomed in the Soviets. Nyerere was feted by the European socialist elites, but the Tanzanians who were completely disrupted by his policies and poorer by the year were not so charmed.
So, with all this real life accumulated knowledge, it's as if Obama the Junior, instead is working out of a dusty old tome that is only useful for historical interest, not real life. Worse, regrettably, it isn't George Washington's rules of life to make oneself a better person, but angry, envious, covetous and bitter concepts - an appeal to everyone's worst natures.
Ominously, Obama has absorbed the teaching of men who would wreck Africa, all the while claiming they are dedicated to it.

391 spudmomof6  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:08:35pm

Interesting to compare and contrast the people who have strongly influenced our current crop of presidential candidates. Obama - communist man who knocked up mum, then left, mum who didn't want to be bothered with the burden of a child, so dumps him in Granny's lap, father figure Rev. Wright, who blames everything on rich white men. McCain - a tradition of leadership and military service by Dad and Gramps, a teacher who helped straighten him up about the value of an honor code (guess it didn't help wife #1.) Clinton - Eleanor Roosevelt?

392 Mich-again  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:08:57pm

The NYT mentioned Obama's father in a story back in January. Here are all the details that were "fit to print" about him..

Senator Obama’s father, a goat-herder-turned economist, grew up in Nyangoma-Kogelo and was buried there in 1982 following a fatal car crash.

goat-herder-turned economist. Thats pretty much all you, the reader, need to know about him. He herded goats. Then he turned into an economist.

393 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:10:08pm

Ominously, Obama has absorbed the teaching of men who would wreck Africa, all the while claiming they are dedicated to it.
So far, he hasn't actually said he's dedicated to America ... has he? He's just gonna CHANGE it.

394 markie  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:28:30pm

That does it.

I'm voting for Truman.

395 Ojoe  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:29:51pm

test

396 alegrias  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:35:42pm

re: #393 wanumba

Ominously, Obama has absorbed the teaching of men who would wreck Africa, all the while claiming they are dedicated to it.
So far, he hasn't actually said he's dedicated to America ... has he? He's just gonna CHANGE it.

* * * *
Obama's father sounds a lot like Robert Mugabe~who actually did wreck the lives of millions, and turned rich Rhodesia into a backward basketcase, using Obama's "change" tactics. America cannot go down the path of these gulags.

Only John McCain has spent 5.5 years in communist hell--McCain knows in his very broken bones what Obama & Hillary's redistributionist policies eventually result in for the least among us.

Wanumba, I loved your comment last night about the African movie theater that showed what you called the best anticommunist movie ever made, "The Ten Commandmends."

397 Mich-again  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:37:03pm

Go back a couple years to another story about Obama venturing into his Father's land and you'll see the same tag lines. "Obaaammmaaa!" the people yelled.

His father was a goat herder turned economist from western Kenya, and though Obama was never close to him or spent much time in Kenya, many Kenyans claim him as one of their own...

On Saturday, Obama plans to visit the village and sit in a tin-roof house with his grandmother, who speaks no English and will be waiting for the rising Democratic statesman with an egg, apparently a grandmother-grandson tradition in these parts...

(his mother is white and from Kansas). In Kenya, people with one black and one white parent are called "point fives."

They call them point fives, presumably as in one half. clever.

398 americanmale[deleted]  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:39:29pm
399 alegrias  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:44:19pm

re: #398 americanmale

Is it not now obvious why Obama loves Rev Wrong. He reminds him of papa.

* * *
Whereas, McCain's father served the USA his whole life, fighting America's enemies, bringing the Japanese to sign surrender papers, fighting communists, directing the Vietnam war as CINCPAC, ordering planes to bomb Hanoi where his son Johnny sat as a POW.

Greater love hath no man than he would lay down his life--and that of his son--for the USA.

400 faraway  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 5:52:54pm

Life and Times of Obama X (updated):

Closest People in His Life (”These people are a part of me”):
Wife, Michele: “Really proud of my country for first time in my adult life” (at age 44)
Pastor, Rev. Wright: God Dxxx America, US of KKKA (”I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother “)
Mom: Atheist, Communist
Dad: foreign Arab Sunni Muslim
Brother, Roy (now Abongo): devout Muslim “He converted to Islam, and has sworn off pork and tobacco and alcohol.” the black man must “liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture ”
Step dad: foreign, devout Muslim
Grandma: “on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe”
Cousin Odinga: involved in killings of hundreds in Kenya after saying his election was “stolen”. Plus signed pledge to, within 6 months, re-write the Constitution to implement Sharia law.

Background:
Military Experience: none
National Guard experience: none
Senate Foreign Relations Committee meetings held: none
Education: 2 years in a Muslim school, the rest in elite private schools
Church: Racist, Black Separatist
Patriotism: Refuses to wear flag pin, randomly takes hand to heart during Anthem, Declaration of Independence is “stained by this nation’s original sin of slavery”
Drug Preference: Marijuana, liquor and coke “Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow ”
Music Preference: The Muslim call to prayer is “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth.”
Photo Preference: Somali Muslim garb (think Blackhawk Down)
Boyhood Memories:In an interview with Nicholas Kristof, published in The New York Times, Obama recited the Muslim call to prayer, the Adhan, “with a first-class [Arabic] accent.”
Question: According to Islamic scholars, reciting the Shahada (the first 5 lines of the Adhan), the Muslim declaration of faith, makes one a Muslim.

401 lazypadawan  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 6:07:16pm

I knew it! Barry Hussein is a red diaper doper baby!

The dreams of his father are our nightmare!

402 Darwin Akbar  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 6:17:23pm

As some have noted, the Bible says that the sins of the father are not to be impugned to the son. While the apples have not fallen too far from the tree in this case, we should still judge Obama on his own socialist beliefs, and not those of his father.

That said, here's what I'd like Obama to say at his next speech:

"I can no more denounce the teachings of my father than I could denounce the entire African-Goatherd-Muslim-Polygamous-Child-Abandonin g-Communist community!"

403 grumpy old codger  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 6:23:25pm

re: #387 ploome hineni
I'll drink to that!

404 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 7:05:20pm

re: #202 Izzy Dunne

Does he or does he not have a "c" in his name?
Everybody writes "Barack", but the paper is published by "Barak".
And there's reference to "Barrack" (two "r"s).
Inquiring minds want to know...

Here's a stab at it: In Swahili, baraka means blessings or abundance. Swahili is a coastal Indian Ocean trading dialect of Arabic. Believe that the original Arabic form is barak since Swahili borrows new words and "Swahilifies" them with a vowel at the end. Thus bus becomes busii, car becomes gari (with the hard "c" modified to the hard "g").
Now, it was the Brits who standardized Swahili and made it the organized language it is today - formalizing the grammar and rules and spellings. The Brits dumped quite a few of the hard "c" spellings that are used in English in favor of more "k"s. So, the Swahili spelling is barak, but native English speakers would be used to having that "ck" for the short vowel sounds. See? We use "ck" for the short vowels - like duck and , to get the long vowel, we switch to k as in duke.* So, somewhere along the line, barak with all short vowel a's was written as barack. English speakers would expect that "ck" and may have put it in unconciously - possible Barack's mother thought it was spelled that way from the get-go.
Popular Swahili proverb: Haraka, haraka ha ina baraka
"Haste, haste, no blessings" (our equivalent: "Haste makes waste.")

(*All the old geezers who took phonics would know this, but this may be news for the whole word crowd.)

405 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 7:27:43pm

re: #396 alegrias
Hey, thank you! It WAS the oddest thing given the circumstances - that movie the only available film in the city, day after day, week after week. SOMEONE big has a sly sense of humor.

You're right about Mugabe. What's worrisome right now is what's going to happen in Kenya. With failed Tanzania as a handy model, it WAS right to keep communism at bay, but the Kikuyus dominated too long and have basically pissed off too many people. Odinga Jr. and the Luos were able to gather a coalition of voters that crossed ethnic lines to deliver the presidency by vote, but Kibaki wasn't willing to concede. A huge simmering land dispute is under it - the Kikuyus gave preferential land purchasing and aquisition to Kikuyus - land in other tribal areas, particularly in the Rift Valley and Western Province. Thus, Kikuyus snapped up prime real estate at the expense of the local people. That's all correct to contest, because it wasn't fair, but Odinga? Um ... er. He named his son, Fidel? As in Castro? If he wants to take power and convert Kenya to a communist state a la Zimbabwe ... well we already know what would happen. Kenya is already suffering - their bread and butter was tourism - the game parks, the beach hotels and NO ONE is going. It's a huge sector for employment and it's in a wreck right now, which means a lot of hardworking and decent people are out of jobs. When times get iffy, the Kenyan-born Asians get nervous, too, for it wouldn't take much at all to incite people against them. Very bad time right now and a lot depends on the Luo strategy to gain power.

Culturally, the Luo usually also didn't mix that all that well with the other ethnic groups in Kenya because, well, they are uncircumscised - as a cultural practice. Sounds silly, but it's enough in that region to get kids tossed out of school or grown men to be ambushed and "fixed" by their circumcision-practicing neighbors.

406 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 7:37:57pm

re: #397 Mich-again
We were in Kenya when he did his tour, so we got all the daily papers on it. (Had no idea who he was, not being from Illinois.) He went in, went to the grandmama's place, (who evidently had nothing to do with raising him, so it was somewhat awkward - but Barack was evidently trying to establish his African roots bona fides) toured about, made a big to-do about getting an HIV/AIDS blood test (sound familiar?) and then made some undiplomatic remarks and the party was O-V-E-R. The Kenyan government (Kikuyus) got pissed and he left soon afterwards without all the fanfare. The MSM news articles all neglect to mention that part.

407 norar  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 7:38:29pm

Obviously Obama lied about his mother too.

There is also this pesky detail on page 3:

"Stanley Ann's [Obama's mother's] prospective father-in-law was furious. He wrote the Dunhams "this long, nasty letter saying that he didn't approve of the marriage," Obama recounted his mother telling him in "Dreams." "He didn't want the Obama blood sullied by a white woman."

This does explain Obama's connection to black power church and his "spiritual" leader, kind of runs in the genes.

408 Daisy  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 8:01:09pm

re: #390 wanumba

Sorry, wanumba, for my belated reply - the bad news is, I had to rush away earlier. The good news is, it was to take a phone call from my older son who called to announce that he and his wife are expecting their first child. I was busy phoning other family members with the happy news. This news adds to our good fortune since my step-son and his wife are expecting their first child in June. And so, my husband and I will become grandparents for the first time - with 2 grandchildren born within the same year!

Your knowledge of African culture and political history is impressive. I'm glad I asked you a question - and promise not to take advantage of you by asking too many! :) Time doesn't allow me to say more than thanks for your detailed explanation - and I wish I were not rushed right now - but I am and so, I'll leave it with this: I understand your original point better - and thanks again for such a thorough explanation.

409 wanumba  Mon, Apr 7, 2008 9:17:01pm

re: #408 Daisy
I'm glad I went back for just one more peek at the thread before my head hit the keyboard. First, congratulations! Really really wonderful! (In Africa, children are charmingly still called "wealth," so you are on the way to great riches! and grandparents are very respected and revered.)
We've lived in Africa quite a long time, but I've not really studied it, so I try to give people the common-sense and no jargon approach, hopefully to make it understandable and more real to everyone in a familiar sort of way. Hopefully, people will be motivated to look up the various references and learn more of the details that fill out the stories better. Didn't expect it would ever come in handy during a US presidential election, but go figure!
A nice book we've found recently is To The Heart of the Nile by Pat Shipman. It focuses on Samuel and Florence Baker's husband-wife explorer team in the mid-late 1800s as they work their way down the Nile and beyond into what is today Southern Sudan and Uganda. Incredible story.


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 Frank says:

All year long you people manufactured this crap, and one night a year you've got to listen to it! -- Frank introducing "psychedelic music" to the audience of the National Academy of Recording Arts & Science dinner in New York (1968) at which the Mothers were invited to play