Typical White People!

I bet she's proud, now.

Mrs. Obama was careful to note that the Obamas, both of whom are Harvard-educated lawyers and who together own a million-dollar home in Illinois, grew up under difficult conditions.

Bwahaha!

Those diversity lineups are always the same.

re: #2 Noam Sayin'

Noam! Good Afternoon Sir.

Michelle Obama the racist needs a Typical White Person to make her look good? Go figure . . .

I suppose all politicians do this. I wonder how Michelle can bear being next to a white person?

Were those 'typical white people' or otherwise?

Can you imagine what would happen if McCain shufled people about at a Q&A session according to their race ?
/Rhetorical.

gack! what phonies...

Token whites? Trying hard to show that BHO (c'mon does he really want to be referred to as simply "BO") is not just the "black" candidate.

Welcome to the wonderful world of politics, kids!

We need more cowbell! Stat, dammit!

So was Ms. Obama engaging in racial profiling? I thought we weren't supposed to do that anymore.

re: #6 galloping granny

Oh Granny, you beat me and said it better!

I refuse to give up my seat for Michelle Obama!

/now they talk about Asians...

So her need for more white people was fleeting and very very temporary, at best...

/sounds about right

I reckon Maria Pinto is white enough for her.

Shocking! Hopefully someone will have it up on youtube soon though...

...I didn’t know it would be so outright

LOL, you ain't seen nothing yet, honey. We're in for a hell of ride the next 4 years.

“We’re moving you, sorry. It’s going to look so pretty, though.”

They'll say the same thing when they start making their "classless" Utopian society.

re: #3 BabbaZee

Mrs. Obama was careful to note that the Obamas, both of whom are Harvard-educated lawyers and who together own a million-dollar home in Illinois, grew up under difficult conditions.

I don't know. I suspect that the average Typical White Person would not consider the $7000 a year private school Obama attended in Hawai'i difficult circumstances" by any stretch of the imagination.

Barefoot children of sharecroppers would have been "difficult circumstances."

Aw, think of how cute it would be to have the first coupled be called, "BO" & "MO".

not..

Symbolism over substance.

re: #21 markx

...no matter who gets elected.

How open minded - she's a proponent of both affirmative action and, for typical white people, affirmative Obamination. She can truly repsent us all!

I'm shocked, SHOCKED that a political speech would be stage-managed.

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Didn't people say the same thing about busing kids?

re: #24 calcajun

Aw, think of how cute it would be to have the first coupled be called, "BO" & "MO".

not..

Body Odor and Modus Operandi?

re: #30 Honorary Yooper

That about sums it up.

re: #8 Sabnen

Were those 'typical white people' or otherwise?

Of course they were not Typical White People. All of us Typical White People know darned good and well that we are not welcome at the Obama table except as Token Whiteys so we stay away.

Yes, We're Canned!

For the first time in her adult life-she wants white people around her!

OT

UN expert stands by Nazi comments

The next UN investigator into Israeli conduct in the occupied territories has stood by comments comparing Israeli actions in Gaza to those of the Nazis.

Speaking to the BBC, Professor Richard Falk said he believed that up to now Israel had been successful in avoiding the criticism that it was due.

Professor Falk is scheduled to take up his post for the UN Human Rights Council later in the year.

But Israel wants his mandate changed to probe Palestinian actions as well.

Professor Falk said he drew the comparison between the treatment of Palestinians with the Nazi record of collective atrocity, because of what he described as the massive Israeli punishment directed at the entire population of Gaza.

“We’re moving you, sorry. It’s going to look so pretty, though.”

Beyond parody.

re: #2 Noam Sayin'

Her brother seems to be doing fairly well

Craig Robinson selected as new men’s basketball coach at Oregon State

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“We’re moving you, sorry. It’s going to look so pretty, though.”

They'll say the same thing when they start making their "classless" Utopian society.

"yes, step right into this re-indoctrination center. remove your clothes and leave your belongings. you will feel no pain"

you will be absorbed.

re: #3 BabbaZee

It is a very DIFFICULT million dollar home to manage!

Imported from the previous thread because it belongs here:

#159 wrenchwench 4/08/08 10:26:14 am
re: #112 Terp Mole

“I understood they would want a show of diversity, but to pick up people and to reseat them, I didn’t know it would be so outright.”

"So outright." That's the big sin. They're all about the nuance.

I wonder what her strategist called it - a "Reverse Rosa"?

re: #23 galloping granny

/I got her difficult circumstances, right here...

Theoretical Gramscian Eugenicisstic Racialist Entitlement Whore from HELL.

Say it ten times FAST!

lololool

outright racism and pandering on the left? who knew?

hmph.

Skin over substance.

This is all a big mistake.

The minions were just moving people so that those in the audience would able to recognize Ms. Obama on a stage that was full.

Her beautiful, ebony skin is easy to spot in a sea of bland beige, but not so easy to spot in a sea of beautiful, ebony skin.

It was the help the people in the back.

/channeling the lib excuse machine

Christ, Marx, Woods and Wei
Lead us to this perfect day

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, he is speaking the twoof.

LaKe'sha, Dontr'eL..quick! Go grab Jackie and Dunlap!

another hmph! i don't care what color these people are, they're freaking marxists! the only way i'd be seen standing behind them in support is if i were already DEAD! sort of a weekend at kirly's. lol

Well, I guess us White Folk better get used to being at the back-of-the-bus when the Obama's come to power.

re: #19 MandyManners

I reckon Maria Pinto is white enough for her.

Read the comments. People love her! I just don't get that. She is as insufferable and arrogant as John effin' Kerry.

With these people running things, it could be:
"Will all of you in this group here please step into these showers?"

re: #50 Maximu§

Well, I guess us White Folk better get used to being at the back-of-the-bus under the bus when the Obama's come to power.

Fixed

When do you think they will replace "Old Glory" with the hammer and sickle?

The more dee-verse we are, dee-werse it gets.

/just sayin

re: #50 Maximu§

No, Michelle wanted the white people up front.

/oh...wait...

re: #43 Kirly

I just love it when college kids get introduced to reality.

re: #50 Maximu§

Well, I guess us White Folk better get used to being at the back-of-the-bus when the Obama's come to power.

exactly what these marxist racists want... revenge.

We need a white person. How about grandma, if you can pull her out from under the bus?re: #1 BabbaZee

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“We’re moving you, sorry. It’s going to look so pretty, though.”

They'll say the same thing when they start making their "classless" Utopian society.

Well, they've certainly got the classless part down pat.

Any American citizen should be good enough. One person, one vote.

re: #51 coquimbojoe

Read the comments. People love her! I just don't get that. She is as insufferable and arrogant as John effin' Kerry.

Has it dawned on you yet that those people who just love her might very well be her own campaign staffers padding the comments?

re: #59 Alibaba

Someone put some powder on those tire tracks and fluff her hair , quick!

lol

re: #52 Oblede Obleda

With these people running things, it could be:
"Will all of you in this group here please step into these showers?"

Huh?

re: #51 coquimbojoe

Read the comments. People love her! I just don't get that. She is as insufferable and arrogant as John effin' Kerry.

The content of her character stinks.

Imagine if someone refused to move. I wonder what MO would do?

Where are her seating allotments for the cynical, slothful and mean?

re: #58 Kirly

exactly what these marxist racists want... revenge.

... and a check $$.

re: #57 markx

I just love it when college kids get introduced to reality.

me too. and the sooner the better. the norm is the first paycheck ("HEY! Where'd all my money go?").

re: #58 Kirly

No so much revenge, but the politics of payback. They won't do anything different but use political patronage to put their cronies in office. They have no desire to change the system as they want to use it to "get theirs".

re: #53 galloping granny

LOL, Thank You Granny

re: #66 mattm

Behead those who insult diversity!

re: #65 MandyManners

The content of her character stinks.

They don't care a tinker's damn about content of anything, image is everything to them and most who blindly follow them...

re: #17 laZardo

I refuse to give up my seat for Michelle Obama!

/now they talk about Asians...

The Carnegie-Mellon auditorium boycott?

re: #66 mattm

Imagine if someone refused to move. I wonder what MO would do?

Wouldn't happen in that crowd of bleaters

re: #66 mattm

Imagine if someone refused to move. I wonder what MO would do?

She'd be a typical WAB.

Hey, I'm white, and I won't make too many innapropriate gestures or hidden signs. Although I might wear my new "Typcial white person" T-shirt as a show of solidarity to all my "homies."

re: #75 Iron Fist

144,000 updings
and a cigar

re: #5 ethanxxx

Hey, Ethan.

re: #63 BabbaZee

Someone put some powder Bondo on those tire tracks and fluff her hair , quick!

lol

Fixed.

The only reason she wanted more "white people" in the audience was because otherwise she wouldn't have anyone to blame. The world is a harsh, merciless place when you're a Harvard Law School graduate making $400,000 a year doing almost nothing. Why, if not for The Man holding her down, she might be making $800,000 a year and doing absolutely nothing at all.

re: #66 mattm

THAT would have been awesome. A new version of the Rosa Parks story. LOLOLOL

re: #69 Kirly

me too. and the sooner the better. the norm is the first paycheck ("HEY! Where'd all my money go?").

Heh. I remember getting my first actual paycheck from a part-time job when I was around 14 or 15. That was pretty much my reaction.

re: #81 Ward Cleaver

AHHAA!

re: #70 calcajun

They have no desire to change the system as they want to use it to "get theirs".

To "get theirs"? If I was living in a million dollar mansion, I would think I would have "gotten mine". It boggles my mind that people who have so much want so much more. What ever happened to being content with what God has given you, especially when it is so much!?

Eskimos!...Where are the Eskimos?..er...excuse me...Inuits!...Why are there never any Inuits represented?

"I have a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple.

James Watt

re: #64 Ringo the Gringo

re: #52 Oblede Obleda

With these people running things, it could be:
"Will all of you in this group here please step into these showers?"

Huh?

i can't be sure ringo, but i think oblede obleda meant that they are so racist and so far gone that their next step might just take them toward the unthinkable. at least that's the way i read it.

re: #73 anotherindyfilmguy

They don't care a tinker's damn about content of anything, image is everything to them and most who blindly follow them...

Cream puffs.

re: #82 Diamond Bullet

The only reason she wanted more "white people" in the audience was because otherwise she wouldn't have anyone to blame. The world is a harsh, merciless place when you're a Harvard Law School graduate making $400,000 a year doing almost nothing. Why, if not for The Man holding her down, she might be making $800,000 a year and doing absolutely nothing at all.

And hell's bells, she can hardly find dancing lessons for her two kids on that kind of scratch. Must be she needs a Welfare check to pay for it or something.

It is beyond me how people are not seeing who the Obamas really are.

I'm not a fan of Hillary's (or even McCain for that matter) but damn, they're hitting that woman for every little thing and say basically that her lies and "mis-speaking describes her real character.

Meanwhile, in another part of idiotville, Obama had multiple dealings with (VERY) questionable people, and he gets a pass and excuses, saying his associations have absolutely nothing to do with who he is.

The Dems do a great double talk. Sorry, but I think this was fixed a long time ago.

re: #86 Jetpilot1101

What ever happened to being content with what God has given you, especially when it is so much!?

Amen

re: #86 Jetpilot1101

To "get theirs"? If I was living in a million dollar mansion, I would think I would have "gotten mine". It boggles my mind that people who have so much want so much more. What ever happened to being content with what God has given you, especially when it is so much!?

Ah, contentment. A very hard thing to develop in our day and age, especially when certain people (who will remain nameless) harp and harp about how they're being "held down."

Contentment takes hard work, though.

re: #69 Kirly

LOL.

My daughter in college filed a tax return for the first time last year.

It was sooo funny.

re: #74 Ward Cleaver

[30 years later, with me sitting on a old couch with non-holographic photos on a table nearby]

"Those were trying times. I remember when they sprayed flowers and pro-diversity rhetoric at me just to force me from that seat, and I only moved because Michelle hired some pretty big guards. All I wanted to do was sit down, really, and watch the conference. I never thought it would erupt into as big a movement as big as it did."

re: #89 Kirly

i can't be sure ringo, but i think oblede obleda meant that they are so racist and so far gone that their next step might just take them toward the unthinkable. at least that's the way i read it.

that's how I read it too

is it just me, or did MO hit more than a few of the larger branches on the fall down from the ugly tree?

just sayin'

WhineyAssBitch.

re: #92 samhein

It is beyond me how people are not seeing who the Obamas really are.

I'm not a fan of Hillary's (or even McCain for that matter) but damn, they're hitting that woman for every little thing and say basically that her lies and "mis-speaking describes her real character.

Meanwhile, in another part of idiotville, Obama had multiple dealings with (VERY) questionable people, and he gets a pass and excuses, saying his associations have absolutely nothing to do with who he is.

The Dems do a great double talk. Sorry, but I think this was fixed a long time ago.

Yup - though I don't think anyone bothered to tell the Clintons.

re: #98 Vergeltung

is it just me, or did MO hit more than a few of the larger branches on the fall down from the ugly tree?

just sayin'

I think it's just you. Depending on how her hair is set, she's quite pretty.

re: #87 Ringo the Gringo

Oh, but they are. Your failure to see it is the result of an optical "aleutian".

(sorry - I could not help myself)

re: #101 vxbush

I think it's just you. Depending on how her hair is set, she's quite pretty.

Although I'll add, beauty on the inside creates beauty on the outside.

re: #89 Kirly

i can't be sure ringo, but i think oblede obleda meant that they are so racist and so far gone that their next step might just take them toward the unthinkable. at least that's the way i read it.

Me too.

Seems a bit over-the-top, wouldn't you say?

The poor psychology major did not know "it would be so outright?"

Honey, you chose the party of race politics. Wake up.

#64 Ringo the Gringo

Just an oblique reference to the Holocaust Nazi showers

re: #91 galloping granny

And hell's bells, she can hardly find dancing lessons for her two kids on that kind of scratch. Must be she needs a Welfare check to pay for it or something.

Or maybe we need a Universal Dancing Lesson Care program funded by the magical Taxpayer Gnomes. Honest to god, this is the 21st century - what kind of country forces its children to go through life with only 2 years of modern dance and 4 years of tap?

re: #92 samhein

It is beyond me how people are not seeing who the Obamas really are.
I'm not a fan of Hillary's (or even McCain for that matter) but damn, they're hitting that woman for every little thing and say basically that her lies and "mis-speaking describes her real character.
Meanwhile, in another part of idiotville, Obama had multiple dealings with (VERY) questionable people, and he gets a pass and excuses, saying his associations have absolutely nothing to do with who he is.
The Dems do a great double talk. Sorry, but I think this was fixed a long time ago.

in the extreme liberal mind, in these cricumstances, the ends completely justify the means. they just don't care, they want it done. no matter how insane the road there is.

re: #72 laZardo

Behead those who insult diversity!

Diversity - shut up and embrace it!

re: #98 Vergeltung

is it just me, or did MO hit more than a few of the larger branches on the fall down from the ugly tree?

just sayin'

OMG. i thought i was alone in thinking, why does everyone keep saying these people are so attractive? barf!

re: #110 Ward Cleaver

Diversity - shut up and embrace it!

We will not tolerate intolerance!

re: #85 BabbaZee

AHHAA!

You get those speakers going? Didn't bump your head I hope.

I cast thee out, in the name of all that is typical and white, Mrs. Obamanable Gramscifoolicus!

re: #110 Ward Cleaver

Diversity - shut up and embrace it!

Or you'll get such a beating...

re: #23 galloping granny

I don't know. I suspect that the average Typical White Person would not consider the $7000 a year private school Obama attended in Hawai'i difficult circumstances" by any stretch of the imagination.

Barefoot children of sharecroppers would have been "difficult circumstances."

Obama was a scholarship student at Punahou, the private school in Hawaii.

re: #104 Ringo the Gringo

Me too.

Seems a bit over-the-top, wouldn't you say?

not really. all hate starts someplace.

re: #111 Kirly

OMG. i thought i was alone in thinking, why does everyone keep saying these people are so attractive? barf!

Really?! Wow. I'm not seeing what you're seeing. But that's okay. I care more for what's on the inside, and I'm not impressed.

re: #113 Shug

We will not tolerate intolerance!

I have to confess, I stole that from James Taranto.

re: #103 vxbush

Although I'll add, beauty on the inside creates beauty on the outside.

In my opinion, Ms. Obama is nothing more than a pretty hollow shell with little to no character. She panders to the masses to get votes, she continually whines in spite of her privileged lifestyle, and she insults this country and a large portion of the people living here. She is nothing more than Theresa Heinz Kerry with a little more spit and polish, a better hairstyle, and a much prettier face. It's what is on the inside that counts and neither Ms. Obama nor THK have much there that I would be remotely interested in.

re: #108 Diamond Bullet

Or maybe we need a Universal Dancing Lesson Care program funded by the magical Taxpayer Gnomes. Honest to god, this is the 21st century - what kind of country forces its children to go through life with only 2 years of modern dance and 4 years of tap?

And have you noticed the price of arugula lately? We need to do something about the economy so there will be some arugula in every pot!

All bigotry is excused if the perpetrator is Brown. Bottom line.

Pretty is as pretty does.

She looks mean. The true nature of your heart always shows on your face.

(Typical white person comment)

re: #107 Oblede Obleda

#64 Ringo the Gringo

Just an oblique reference to the Holocaust Nazi showers

I got that.

I guess I'm just not fond of over the top Nazi analogies.

re: #122 galloping granny

And have you noticed the price of arugula lately? We need to do something about the economy so there will be some arugula in every pot!

And Gorgonzola cheese? Holy crap!

re: #113 Shug

What about lactose intolerance? When will we end that so that we can "all scream for ice cream"!

re: #121 Jetpilot1101

In my opinion, Ms. Obama is nothing more than a pretty hollow shell with little to no character. She panders to the masses to get votes, she continually whines in spite of her privileged lifestyle, and she insults this country and a large portion of the people living here. She is nothing more than Theresa Heinz Kerry with a little more spit and polish, a better hairstyle, and a much prettier face. It's what is on the inside that counts and neither Ms. Obama nor THK have much there that I would be remotely interested in.

Yeah. What I said, only not as well. Thumbs up (and a positive ding), sir.

re: #111 Kirly

OMG. i thought i was alone in thinking, why does everyone keep saying these people are so attractive? barf!

they ought to be called Ugly & Dumbo.

re: #114 Ward Cleaver

You get those speakers going? Didn't bump your head I hope.

Yup I got 'em going.
I am the queen of "make it work" !

BBL

re: #123 Pawn of the Oppressor

All bigotry is excused if the perpetrator is Brown. Bottom line.

They're only bigoted because Whitey made them that way.

One last outburst as the gavel closed the session. Can't make it out though.

re: #117 JustMyView

Obama was a scholarship student at Punahou, the private school in Hawaii.

Plenty of kids get scholarships to high end schools. They usually consider themselves "lucky" rather than the victim of "difficult circumstances."

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OT

UN expert stands by Nazi comments
The next UN investigator into Israeli conduct in the occupied territories has stood by comments comparing Israeli actions in Gaza to those of the Nazis.
Professor Falk said he drew the comparison between the treatment of Palestinians with the Nazi record of collective atrocity, because of what he described as the massive Israeli punishment directed at the entire population of Gaza.

Yeah, we all know how the Holocaust was just a response because the Jews were blowing themselves up in German beerhalls, and lobbing homemade rockets at German towns.
/do I need to?
Falk him.

re: #119 vxbush

Really?! Wow. I'm not seeing what you're seeing. But that's okay. I care more for what's on the inside, and I'm not impressed.

yeah, i'm not impressed with her massive inside ugly either.

re: #121 Jetpilot1101

In my opinion, Ms. Obama is nothing more than a pretty hollow shell with little to no character. She panders to the masses to get votes, she continually whines in spite of her privileged lifestyle, and she insults this country and a large portion of the people living here. She is nothing more than Theresa Heinz Kerry with a little more spit and polish, a better hairstyle, and a much prettier face. It's what is on the inside that counts and neither Ms. Obama nor THK have much there that I would be remotely interested in.

On the flip side, McCain's wife and daughter are every man's fantasy - tall, hot, and blonde. I can imagine Arab knees turning to jelly when they visit.

"By the Grace of Allah, Mister President McCain, where did you buy your wife? And is your daughter for sale?"

re: #124 MandyManners

re: #125 jemima

One of those great congruences of comments.

re: #110 & #116

Diversity - shut up and embrace it!

Or you'll get such a beating...

Just think of all the diverse colors in bruises.

Small town paper standing up to the nutroots.

Bellingham Herald Opinion Editor's Blog

Coffee shop vandals aren't too bright

Is it too much to ask that supposedly political-minded vandals at least be making a valid point?

The petty criminals who stenciled the message “Fascism begins with the sale of public space” obviously don’t know what they are talking about.
...
...
...

I looked up the definition online at [Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

Fascism 1: a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

I’m trying to figure out how placing a coffee shop in Boulevard Park after several public meetings ends up meeting that definition.

Having a coffee shop in the park doesn’t “exalt nation ... above the individual.” Having numerous public meetings about what to do with the building and settling on a coffee shop doesn’t seem to me like “centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader.” I really don’t recall any “forcible suppression of opposition” at those meetings.

And I don’t think allowing a small business to operate as it pleases is “severe economic and social regimentation.”

The coffee shop in the park is clearly not the first building ever owned by government and occupied by a business. The city of Bellingham owns other buildings with private businesses operating inside. The port of Bellingham practically makes a living operating that way. Have these vandals never been to Squalicum Harbor Marina or the Bellingham International Airport?

As was pointed out in the story about the vandals in today’s newspaper, which you can read at [Link: www.bellinghamherald.com...] the building in Boulevard Park previously held a privately owned pottery studio with no protest.

I am not a coffee drinker and have never set foot inside the Boulevard Park Woods Coffee shop. I’m not even sure how I feel about having a coffee shop in Boulevard Park.

But putting it there surely isn’t fascism.

It is good to see someone still trying to use logic in the newspaper business. Even if it is on their blog.

Is she looking for a specific focus group type? Perhaps soccer moms or Nascar dads?

I keep thinking about the story about the democrats that were going to go to a Nascar rally and were rumored to have asked if they needed vaccinations first.

re: #128 calcajun

What about lactose intolerance? When will we end that so that we can "all scream for ice cream"!

Since Lactose intolerance is higher in African americans I hereby declare Ice Cream to be RACIST

re: #121 Jetpilot1101

and a much prettier face. .

what!?!? dude, please pass me some of that weed you have. it must be excellent! better then beer goggles apparently.

those words you used cannot be associated with that face. it's a linguistic impossibility. I am sorry. please go to the back of the class. you lose your turn.

I wonder if this TWP would measure up.

senior psychology major Shayna Watson, who sat in the crowd behind Mrs. Obama. “I understood they would want a show of diversity, but to pick up people and to reseat them, I didn’t know it would be so outright.”

Liberal:
I don't think we should give rapists such harsh sentences, it was just sex afterall.

Raped Liberal:
Castrate then lock them up with murderers who hate rapists.

Liberal:
I don't think you need a gun in your home to defend your family.

Robbed/Beaten/Shot Liberal:
Let me borrow your shotgun, sidearm and 2000 rounds until next week when my new Desert Eagle .50 cal comes in.

Liberal:
I think diversity is loving, For The Children, and atones for all the wrongs my whiteness causes.

Used Poseur Liberal:
I'm embarrassed at being used because of my skin color.

Feel free to add your own :)

re: #139 zmdavid

That ruby punch looks good on you, much better than that lavender kick!

and you'll notice that White Milk outnumbers chocolate milk 20 to 1

racist!

More cowbell whitey!

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They're only bigoted because Whitey made them that way.

They cannot be bigoted. Political Correctness and Blackness Advocacy are clear that it is only racism and bigotry if you are WHITE.

re: #146 Sol Roth

Liberal: Palestine is such a great country, I should go there and help defend its people from the IDF's oppression!

Liberal after being used by Palestinians:

/intentionally left blank

Maybe the Obama camp should have put a hundred American flags behind Michelle instead.

The blatant hypocrisy and bs coming out of the Obama camp is so palpable you need to shovel it out of the way to find the damn exit.

re: #104 Ringo the Gringo

Could be construed as over the top, but when you live long enough, nothing surprises me. Wait! If they both now become Charlton Heston, that would do it!

re: #149 jcm

More cowbell whitey!

great

re: #144 Vergeltung

what!?!? dude, please pass me some of that weed you have. it must be excellent! better then beer goggles apparently.

those words you used cannot be associated with that face. it's a linguistic impossibility. I am sorry. please go to the back of the class. you lose your turn.

Well when you compare her to THK, I think she is relatively pretty. In my line of work, we used to call women like Ms. Obama "GTMO 10's".

After a few weeks deployed in GTMO...well you know what I mean.

I have a true story to account. Most of you know that I am a musician. in 1994, my band was chosen to play at an event in which the President was to appear (I'll leave it to you to discover who was the POTUS then). We had a signed a contract, and were good to go. The day before the gig, I was told that we were fired. I asked why, and they told me it was because minorities (and specifically blacks) were under represented in the ranks of my band, as determined by our promo pictures. At the time I had a 14 piece band. It had 2 blacks, 3 Hispanics, 2 Asians, 2 women and the remainder were whites, and my voter registration at the time was (D).

re: #151 laZardo

Liberal after being used by Palestinians:

/intentionally left blank

"Help! Someone get this bulldozer off me!"

re: #62 galloping granny

Has it dawned on you yet that those people who just love her might very well be her own campaign staffers padding the comments?

Great point. It didn't.

re: #140 Yakima1966

The two commentors also seem to get it:

Comment from: AFY [Visitor]
In the 30's in Germany wasn't there a group of facist that went around and broke the windows of small business they didn't like?

Sounds like those kind of people live here in Bham too!

I have never been to the Woods Coffee shop but the next time I am in the area I am stopping by to support the business, for sure, whether I drink coffee or not! I know I will find something to buy (my wife says I never have a problem doing that)!

AFY!
Permalink 04/08/08 @ 09:57

re: #117 JustMyView

Oh, go piss up a rope.

re: #151 laZardo

#138

I did it on purpose, WrenchWench. ;-)

Good to see you again.

Mmm, i think it goes without saying, but can you imagine if mccain said a thing like that?

re: #155 Jetpilot1101

Well when you compare her to THK, I think she is relatively pretty. In my line of work, we used to call women like Ms. Obama "GTMO 10's".

After a few weeks deployed in GTMO...well you know what I mean.

so like, "any port in a storm" kinda thing, eh? Hmmm.

re: #155 Jetpilot1101

Well when you compare her to THK, I think she is relatively pretty. In my line of work, we used to call women like Ms. Obama "GTMO 10's".

After a few weeks deployed in GTMO...well you know what I mean.

But, is she MILF material?

One more thing before I go

OT:

Dalai Lama, "I am a Marxist Monk."

Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama calls himself a Marxist monk, because "Marxism is more ethical, unlike capitalism".

re: #152 ghost707

Maybe the Obama camp should have put a hundred American flags behind Michelle instead.

The blatant hypocrisy and bs coming out of the Obama camp is so palpable you need to shovel it out of the way to find the damn exit.

Now do you folks see what bullshit we have to deal with in the cesspool of Illinois politics?

That's where the Obamas learned it, and they learned it from the masters.

re: #164 Vergeltung

so like, "any port in a storm" kinda thing, eh? Hmmm.

I think you catch my drift. I'll leave you to determine where the GTMO scale starts but I'll give you a hint, it ain't at the number 1.

Try again...

re: #151 laZardo

Liberal after being used by Palestinians:

St. Pancake.

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Which brings up an interesting historical note. I have no real evidence - just some insight from what I have read about the middle ages up through the 17th and 18th centuries, but wasn't it common that merchants -any merchants - plying their trade in the Mediterranean were susceptible to pirate attacks from (gasp) African Muslims and that as prisoners - they were liable to enslaved if their families could not ransom them? Might the wariness of today's Europeans and Americans be deep-seeded in historical precedent?

What are your thoughts, gang?

re: #156 rawmuse

I have a true story to account. Most of you know that I am a musician. in 1994, my band was chosen to play at an event in which the President was to appear (I'll leave it to you to discover who was the POTUS then). We had a signed a contract, and were good to go. The day before the gig, I was told that we were fired. I asked why, and they told me it was because minorities (and specifically blacks) were under represented in the ranks of my band, as determined by our promo pictures. At the time I had a 14 piece band. It had 2 blacks, 3 Hispanics, 2 Asians, 2 women and the remainder were whites, and my voter registration at the time was (D).

Music-gate '94!

re: #165 MandyManners

MILFs? In my GTMO?

Zombie request :

Zombie, will you be taking photos of the assault on the Olympic torch through Frisco ?

I think it would be nice.

/pleeease!

[deleted]

re: #166 BabbaZee

One more thing before I go

OT:

Dalai Lama, "I am a Marxist Monk."

Dalai, you're an idiot

Sonofabitch

re: #166 BabbaZee

One more thing before I go

OT:

Dalai Lama, "I am a Marxist Monk."

Will the Chinese take him back now?

re: #165 MandyManners

But, is she MILF material?

Depends on how long you have been deployed to GTMO. 2 weeks, probably not...3 months, you're getting warmer...6 months, you bet your ass!

#166

Anyone who laughs nonstop should not be taken seriously.

re: #173 Shug

An assault on the Olympic Torch...with the kind of people you find in zombie's reports on San Francisco?

/laughs, then cries because that's his dearly beloved birth city

re: #166 BabbaZee

One more thing before I go

OT:

Dalai Lama, "I am a Marxist Monk."

Is this the Dalai Lama chosen and appointed by Red China, or the real Dalai Lama? (There are two of them.)

re: #169 jcm

Try again...

St. Pancake.

See #157, GMTA

re: #166 BabbaZee

One more thing before I go

OT:

Dalai Lama, "I am a Marxist Monk."
Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama calls himself a Marxist monk, because "Marxism is more ethical, unlike capitalism".

Yes, so ethical they shoot monks.
(Yes, I know Maoism isn't Marxism, but it certainly takes ideas from Marxism)
You'd think he'd know better.

re: #151 laZardo

That left me rather flat.

re: #178 Jetpilot1101

Depends on how long you have been deployed to GTMO. 2 weeks, probably not...3 months, you're getting warmer...6 months, you bet your ass!

I cannot imagine the deprivation required, to make her into something even remotely sexually attractive.

re: #172 laZardo

MILFs? In my GTMO?

No. Mothers I'd like to ___.

re: #170 calcajun

You are refering to the Barbary wars. Muslim pirates attacked American and European interests and Americans and Europeans for a time prefered to pay the "tribute" aka jizya to both redeem their captives and ensure "safe" trade. This was until the American government started to seriously consider the building of their navy, but even that move was not without domestic controversy. So, to answer your question-there is a deep seated European and (unfortunately) American history of paying 'tribute' to Muslims.

Need more reptiles and crustaceans and arachnids in the background

I once caught my mom (a librarian) sorting a bookcase at home by color. I teased her, and boy, did she blush (I had MY books in Dewey Decimal order).

This, Mrs. Obama, is beyond the PALE.

re: #156 rawmuse

I have a true story to account. Most of you know that I am a musician. in 1994, my band was chosen to play at an event in which the President was to appear (I'll leave it to you to discover who was the POTUS then). We had a signed a contract, and were good to go. The day before the gig, I was told that we were fired. I asked why, and they told me it was because minorities (and specifically blacks) were under represented in the ranks of my band, as determined by our promo pictures. At the time I had a 14 piece band. It had 2 blacks, 3 Hispanics, 2 Asians, 2 women and the remainder were whites, and my voter registration at the time was (D).

You got off lucky. I think the new Federal Sentencing Guidelines provide for a 3-18 month sentence for underrepresentation in an orchestral, jazz, or ska band context.

Ok, now I am really fed up with Obama. Where is Bloomberg when you need him? Bloomberg, if you're out there, please run!

re: #166 BabbaZee

how about a CIA operative who was unable to justify his 180 grand a year

OOOooo... Sun's out! Time to put the top down and get out into the real world. Maybe I'll go down To Winston-Salem State University and listen to MObama... bet I can get a real good seat.

Have a good one everybody.
Be Excellent to Each Other.

re: #186 MandyManners

/got that before, just felt like using the double entendre

re: #188 Ojoe

It will be so pretty

re: #178 Jetpilot1101

Depends on how long you have been deployed to GTMO. 2 weeks, probably not...3 months, you're getting warmer...6 months, you bet your ass!

Ew.

re: #181 galloping granny

Is this the Dalai Lama chosen and appointed by Red China, or the real Dalai Lama? (There are two of them.)

It's him

gotta go

have a great day lizardia

re: #156 rawmuse

Diversity is not a random thing. I'm sure there will soon be majors offered in the science of diversity.

As graduate schools struggle to attract Hispanic students, a new challenge looms: the relevance of focusing on domestic diversity in an increasingly global economy.

This economy requires skills and perspectives that domestic diversity doesn't automatically imply – or supply. While the big picture in the United States has been to offset the social and political wrongs of the past, the new picture concentrates on a cultural literacy that eases the entry of U.S. businesses worldwide.

Ironically, in filling this void, companies are increasingly hiring foreign nationals – some educated in the United States, some overseas – who are considered Hispanic but often lack the cultural experiences of the struggle for diversity shared by U.S. Hispanics.

re: #184 Sol Roth

Well, I was too hard-pressed to find a single quote.

re: #183 Kosh's Shadow

Yes, so ethical they shoot monks.
(Yes, I know Maoism isn't Marxism, but it certainly takes ideas from Marxism)
You'd think he'd know better.

Yup. His people are being ruthlessy oppressed by the system based on the ethics of Marxsim, so he has to come and get support from a bunch of immoral capitalists.

Dalai, once again, you're an idiot.

re: #180 laZardo

The entertainment wont be for a few more hours.

It's 2 AM and I'm about to collapse. z_z Nighty all!

re: #170 calcajun

Which brings up an interesting historical note. I have no real evidence - just some insight from what I have read about the middle ages up through the 17th and 18th centuries, but wasn't it common that merchants -any merchants - plying their trade in the Mediterranean were susceptible to pirate attacks from (gasp) African Muslims and that as prisoners - they were liable to enslaved if their families could not ransom them? Might the wariness of today's Europeans and Americans be deep-seeded in historical precedent?

What are your thoughts, gang?

You have no evidence? How can you have no evidence? Read John Adams. Read the history of the USS Constitution. Read Winston Churchill for heaven's sake.

"Might there be historical precedent?" Sheesh. . . .

re: #151 laZardo

Liberal: Palestine is such a great country, I should go there and help defend its people from the IDF's oppression!

Liberal after being used by Palestinians:

/intentionally left blank

"You're listening to National Public Radio"

re: #156 rawmuse

I have a true story to account. Most of you know that I am a musician. in 1994, my band was chosen to play at an event in which the President was to appear (I'll leave it to you to discover who was the POTUS then). We had a signed a contract, and were good to go. The day before the gig, I was told that we were fired. I asked why, and they told me it was because minorities (and specifically blacks) were under represented in the ranks of my band, as determined by our promo pictures. At the time I had a 14 piece band. It had 2 blacks, 3 Hispanics, 2 Asians, 2 women and the remainder were whites, and my voter registration at the time was (D).

See Post #146

From the theoretical to the practical we did go.

re: #134 galloping granny

Plenty of kids get scholarships to high end schools. They usually consider themselves "lucky" rather than the victim of "difficult circumstances."

Obama has said numerous times that he considers himself lucky to have been able to get a great education, and he says that only in America is it likely that someone who came from such modest circumstances would have been able to do so.

re: #166 BabbaZee

One more thing before I go

OT:

Dalai Lama, "I am a Marxist Monk."

"Marxism is more ethical, unlike capitalism".
Marxism is predicated on subversion of the human spirit, replacing the spirit with the soulless state.

Any he calls himself a "spiritual" leader.

Hahahahahaaa... And they say it is we conservatives who are racist and bigoted.

"Sorry, you're the wrong color to sit there, sit over here instead."

Heh.

re: #194 laZardo

Why, I oughta' choke you.

re: #204 incanus

"You're listening to National Public Palestine Radio"

Fixed it.

re: #183 Kosh's Shadow

Actually, the just plain old Marxists shot monks too. They generally go after the clergy worse than dope peddlers (who in China they also shot).

re: #185 Vergeltung

You sir, have obviously not been deployed to GTMO.

So, for a post racial candidate, the campaign is doing all it can to racially divide its audience to maximize the show (and never forget that politics is about the show) of a diverse crowd backing Obama. Nice.

Just wait til they get their hands on the bureaucracy and domestic policy. Forget about merit hiring; it's going to be grievance theater writ large.

First the $75.00 monkey tax and now stuffing the audience with TWPs. These Obamites make Bill and Hil look psitively amateur hour.

I really think THK is more attractive than Mrs. O, on a scale from zero to one.

/ducks

re: #203 galloping granny

Hmm... Marine Corps hymn comes to mind. Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli.

The US Marines / US Navy - fighting Islamists since the 1800s.

re: #199 laZardo

Squeezed another one in, did we.

re: #206 JustMyView

Obama has said numerous times that he considers himself lucky to have been able to get a great education, and he says that only in America is it likely that someone who came from such modest circumstances would have been able to do so.

Grandchild of a bank vice president is not "modest circumstances." Well, perhaps if you are so completely out of touch with your fellow citizens and the common man that you would talk about the price of arugula to farmers in Iowa while munching on $99 a pound ham, I guess maybe grandchild of a bank VP is pretty "modest."

How bout she just paint a few of them white? Wouldn't that do the trick? Then she would not have to stand in such close proximity to those nasty old white folks.

re: #160 MandyManners

Oh, go piss up a rope.

How do you do that?

re: #141 Iron Fist

,

And this changes the fact that he got a superior education, how? His grandma (who raised him) was a bank Vice President. They were hardly going without meals there. Sorry, but the attempts to make him out to be poor are ludicrous.

My statement was a response to a previous observation that his family had paid 7K/year for him to go to that school.

re: #206 JustMyView

Obama has said numerous times that he considers himself lucky to have been able to get a great education, and he says that only in America is it likely that someone who came from such modest circumstances would have been able to do so.

that kind of optimism, and faith in the traditional American way has simply not been forthcoming from his campaign. not thematically anyway. anecdotally, perhaps. but the overall message is "change" and USA = bad.

re: #206 JustMyView

Obama has said numerous times that he considers himself lucky to have been able to get a great education, and he says that only in America is it likely that someone who came from such modest circumstances would have been able to do so.

He's also campaigning on "Change" . . . That's the America he wants to change? Seems pretty good to me.

Of course, he's also a rampant socialist and holds up on high other rampant socialists and communists.

Why, again, am I to believe that the kind of change he wants benefits me?

Seems to me that the USSR and China are good examples of why that road is one best left untraveled.

re: #222 Sabnen

How do you do that?

Very carefully.

re: #216 vagabond trader

First the $75.00 monkey tax and now stuffing the audience with TWPs. These Obamites make Bill and Hil look psitively amateur hour.

Like I said, they learned from the best. This entire Democrat primary seems to be a battle between two politicial machines: Chicago vs. the Clintons. Compared to Daley and Company, the Clintons are ameteurs. Obama grew to be a politician within the machine, and the entire state's Dems support him with the sole exception of Rahm Emmanuel. He's under his desk. ;-)

When Rahm supports Obama, it's over for Hillary. (He has not supported either yet.)

re: #223 JustMyView

My statement was a response to a previous observation that his family had paid 7K/year for him to go to that school.

I did not state that his family paid $7000 a year for him to attend the school. I said that he went there. I don't think you quite comprehend how that $7K a year private school in the 70's translates into today's money. That would put the school on a par with perhaps only 4 or 5 mainland prep schools.

re: #226 MandyManners

Yeah. I'll say.

Saw a Prius earlier with the following bumper stickers:

Obama
rainbow sticker
COEXIST (should just say I am a naive fool)
Now let me question YOUR marriage
IMPEACH!
OUT OF IRAQ NOW!
W with a line through it (natch - it's a badge of honor for moonbats)

and my favorite...
DRAFT SUV DRIVERS

re: #227 Honorary Yooper

Just HOPE it's also over for the Obama,but I am not so sure.Gah!

The Obama revival in the Carolinas was covered extensively by several blogs. They all reported that national media types brought their families with them behind the rope lines (a professional No-No)--Imagine the reporter covering the event objectively with his kid on his shoulders. "Look princess, this is history. Daddy's gonna help make that man President." Several also mentioned that the audience was about 80% black and yet the TV coverage had about 50% white faces behind the Great Leader.

re: #230 loppyd

and yet we're in the wrong when we flick them off and steer them into a pole.

Mommy may I pose as a typical white person for the Obama?

re: #233 LanceKates

and yet we're in the wrong when we flick them off and steer them into a pole.

I never flick them off. I find laughing at them is a better tool.

WRT Islam, DemonCrats, Wobbly Communists, etc:

The Wolf and the Crane

A WOLF who had a bone stuck in his throat hired a Crane, for a
large sum, to put her head into his mouth and draw out the bone.
When the Crane had extracted the bone and demanded the promised
payment, the Wolf, grinning and grinding his teeth, exclaimed:
"Why, you have surely already had a sufficient recompense, in
having been permitted to draw out your head in safety from the
mouth and jaws of a wolf."

In serving the wicked, expect no reward, and be thankful if you
escape injury for your pains.

re: #234 vagabond trader

Mommy may I pose as a typical white person for the Obama?

No. Now go to your room. No dinner for you.

re: #234 vagabond trader

Mommy may I pose as a typical white person for the Obama?

No dear, you are too white. We need someone white, yet ethnic looking...

re: #235 loppyd

Yeah, but they can't SEE that unless you're at a stop light.

But you are right. Openly laughing at them works wonders... especially if you also point and loudly openly laugh at them.

(then follow it up with "Wait, you're serious?" then laugh more loudly)

re: #75 Iron Fist

She prefers to judge them by the color of their skin, not the content of their character...

Winner.
Truth in a nutshell.

re: #230 loppyd

Saw a Prius earlier with the following bumper stickers:

Obama
rainbow sticker
COEXIST (should just say I am a naive fool)
Now let me question YOUR marriage
IMPEACH!
OUT OF IRAQ NOW!
W with a line through it (natch - it's a badge of honor for moonbats)

and my favorite...
DRAFT SUV DRIVERS

Got a similar Prius I see on my commute home. It's always in the LEFT lane doing exactly 59mph.

(HatTip Gateway pundit)

Michelle Obama, wife of Democratic presidential hopeful Sen Barack Obama, D-Ill., left, holds hands with Teresa (hiccup!) Heinz Kerry, wife of the 2004 Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., Wednesday, April 2, 2008, at Carnegie-Mellon University in Pittsburgh. (AP Photo/Keith Srakocic)

Teresa looks like she's been hitting the gin and berries again.

/hick!

re: #239 LanceKates

Yeah, but they can't SEE that unless you're at a stop light.

But you are right. Openly laughing at them works wonders... especially if you also point and loudly openly laugh at them.

(then follow it up with "Wait, you're serious?" then laugh more loudly)

slap your knee a little too..."you crack me up!"

re: #230 loppyd

Saw a Prius earlier with the following bumper stickers:

Obama
rainbow sticker
COEXIST (should just say I am a naive fool)
Now let me question YOUR marriage
IMPEACH!
OUT OF IRAQ NOW!
W with a line through it (natch - it's a badge of honor for moonbats)

and my favorite...
DRAFT SUV DRIVERS

Interesting. For the USDOT, a W with a line through it means you should not use water to fight any fire from said container. Maybe he's got a head full of anhydrous ammonia. :-)

Obama Handler: "I'm sorry ma'am, you can't sit there."
Rosa Parks: "Excuse me?"
Obama Handler: "I said I'm sorry but you can't sit there."
Rosa Parks: "And just why is that?"
Obama Handler: "Because of the color of your skin. Now move it, you can sit in the back."

re: #241 jcm

Got a similar Prius I see on my commute home. It's always in the LEFT lane doing exactly 59mph.

Where's a rocket launcher when you need one?

LOL! That's Hollywood, Shayna! Smoke and mirrors. And that's your candidate.

They stand for nothing.

re: #235 loppyd

I never flick them off. I find laughing at them is a better tool.

I once scared the crap out of one by ripping the passenger door open and yelling "Who the f**k do you think you're flipping off" at a young lady at a stoplight (then shutting the door and getting back in my car). I would NEVER do that now, but I'm guessing she cut back on the bird flipping after that and started locking her passenger door. I can still see the look on her face.

re: #246 MandyManners

Where's a rocket launcher when you need one?

Hey. I keep trying to get the bazooka option at the dealer, but they have yet to offer it.

Well - I have tought for some time now that Obama is just like Tony Blair - big on charm, lots of nice fluffy words, but no substance.
Now I see his wife is just like Tony Blair's wife, using big angry words up front and looking to grab all she can when possible.

If you need another argument why he should not be elected - just point people to have a look at the state us Brits are in now, eleven years later ...

re: #242 Terp Mole

(HatTip Gateway pundit)

Teresa looks like she's been hitting the gin and berries again.

/hick!

Berries?

re: #242 Terp Mole

(HatTip Gateway pundit)

Teresa looks like she's been hitting the gin and berries again.

/hick!

Teraaayza can only hurt so I say keep on keeping on Nurse Fuzzy Wuzzy.

Someone needs to clue Michelle Obama in that big hair has been dead since at least 1993.

re: #241 jcm

They're going to be confused now. Ford and someone else is releasing a hybrid SUV.

I rented a hybrid for my trip down to TX at the end of January. mileage was 23 mpg or so. Less than my beretta... so much for being green, eh?

re: #249 Honorary Yooper

Hey. I keep trying to get the bazooka option at the dealer, but they have yet to offer it.

LOL!

re: #250 yma o hyd

Well - I have tought for some time now that Obama is just like Tony Blair - big on charm, lots of nice fluffy words, but no substance.
Now I see his wife is just like Tony Blair's wife, using big angry words up front and looking to grab all she can when possible.

If you need another argument why he should not be elected - just point people to have a look at the state us Brits are in now, eleven years later ...

I see one of you decided to exercise his rights under the Magna Carta and Common Law :)

re: #243 loppyd

Then, after laughing, pat them on the back and say "No, its ok. I know you'd never REALLY believe something that utterly insane."

Then talk about Rush Limbaugh. They'll sputter and drool in a frenzy.

I haven't had the time to read all of the responses, so I won't be surprised if it has already been said..

..."Why do you need more white people if we all look alike?"

re: #241 jcm

Got a similar Prius I see on my commute home. It's always in the LEFT lane doing exactly 59mph.

This fool was also holding up traffic in the fast lane. That just doesn't fly in these parts. You need to be going 75+ in that lane or you may get hurt.

re: #254 LanceKates

They're going to be confused now. Ford and someone else is releasing a hybrid SUV.

I rented a hybrid for my trip down to TX at the end of January. mileage was 23 mpg or so. Less than my beretta... so much for being green, eh?

My Yugo got 53 miles to the gallon. My Pinto (German import, one of the first 150 brought into the US) got 47 mpg. For that matter, I remember a few really big boats that did as well as 23 mpg highway - including a Caddy.

re: #254 LanceKates

They're going to be confused now. Ford and someone else is releasing a hybrid SUV.

I rented a hybrid for my trip down to TX at the end of January. mileage was 23 mpg or so. Less than my beretta... so much for being green, eh?

It depends upon the hybrid. An Escape hybrid will get better mileage than a regular Escape, but not better than say your Beretta. It's still a larger vehicle no matter how you slice it. Also, hybrids get better mileage in stop and go traffic than normal vehicles, but they tend to be about the same on the highway.

re: #87 Ringo the Gringo

Hmmm. I know you ain't dissin' on my ancestors...

re: #260 galloping granny

Amazing how all sorts of safety features decrease fuel efficiency.

Thanks Federal Government.

re: #251 MandyManners

Berries?

twig & berries?

wonder if you showed up wearing a t-shirt that said TYPICAL WHITE PERSON is you would be seated behind her?

re: #252 buzzsawmonkey

I know that the Japanese have developed flower-arranging into a fine art.

I had no idea that people-arranging was being similarly refined.

It reminds me of an LSAT problem. A can't sit next to B, but C must be in the front row because he's black. D must sit next to C because he's white. F cannot sit next to B or D. Where does H sit? /

re: #261 Honorary Yooper

Oh, this was a smaller car. a LITTLE bigger than my beretta, but not by much.

However, I drove from okc to ft. worth, so the electrical part of the hybrid didn't do me much use. I stopped once the whole way.

All that extra money to BUY one of those things and it wouldn't matter.

That would be why they have all the hype. Heh.

I do need a different car though. I don't quite have the cash on hand to pay for a different one though, so I will just have to make due for another year or so.