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Rubin: Could There Be an Islamic Revolution in Turkey?

Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:54:35 am PDT

Michael Rubin on a little-known Turkish Islamist living in the US while pulling strings in Istanbul, and preparing to make a Khomeini-esque grand return to Turkey: Could there be an Islamic Revolution in Turkey?

Few U.S. policymakers have heard of Fethullah Gülen, perhaps Turkey’s most prominent theologian and political thinker. Self-exiled for more than a decade, Gülen lives a reclusive life outside Philadelphia, Pa. Within months, however, he may be as much a household a name in the United States as is Ayatollah Khomeini, a man who was as obscure to most Americans up until his triumphant return to Iran almost 30 years ago.

Many academics and journalists embrace Gülen and applaud his stated vision welding Islam with tolerance and a pro-European outlook. Supporters describe him as progressive. In 2003, the University of Texas honored him as a “peaceful hero,” alongside Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma Gandhi, and the Dalai Lama. Last October, the British House of Lords and several British diplomats celebrated Gülen at a high-profile London conference. Later this year, Georgetown University scholar John Esposito will host a conference dedicated to the movement. As in 2001, Esposito will cosponsor with the Rumi Forum, an organization Gülen serves as honorary president.

The Gülen movement controls charities, real estate, companies, and more than a thousand schools internationally. According to some estimates, the Gülen Movement controls several billion dollars. The movement claims its own universities, unions, lobbies, student groups, radio and television stations, and the Zaman newspaper. Turkish officials concede that Gülen’s followers in Turkey number more than a million; Gülen’s backers claim that number is just the tip of the iceberg. Today, Gülen members dominate the Turkish police and divisions within the interior ministry. Under the stewardship of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, one of Gülen’s most prominent sympathizers, tens of thousands of other Gülen supporters have entered the Turkish bureaucracy. ...

His slate wiped clean, Gülen has indicated he may soon return to Turkey.

If he does, Istanbul 2008 may very well look like Tehran 1979. Just as Gülen’s supporters affirm his altruistic intentions and see no inconsistency between a secretive, cell-based movement and transparent governance, too many Western journalists also give Gülen a free pass.

If this sounds familiar, it should: Three decades ago, the same phenomenon marked coverage of Iran. “I don’t want to be the leader of the Islamic Republic; I don’t want to have the government or power in my hands,” Khomeini told a credulous Austrian television reporter during the ayatollah’s brief sojourn in Paris. In November 1978, Steven Erlanger, the future New York Times foreign correspondent, penned a New Republic essay arguing that Khomeini’s vision for Iran was essentially a “Platonic Republic with a grand ayatollah as a philosopher-king,” and predicting the triumph of an independent liberal left worried more about labor conditions in Iran’s oil fields than pursuing any theological tendency.

In Tehran then as in Ankara now, U.S. ambassadors preferred garden parties with the political elite and maintained contacts with only a narrow segment of the population. They were blind. As the State Department and Central Intelligence Agency remained clueless or belittled concerns about Khomeini’s intentions, millions of Iranians turned out to greet their Imam at Tehran’s international airport. Turks now say that similar crowds might greet Gülen when his plane touches down in Istanbul.

Scary stuff. Read the whole thing.

374 comments

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1 NoSubmission  4/15/08 9:56:09 am reply quote 5

Turkey is ripe for the next battle for the Caliphate.

2 buzzsawmonkey  4/15/08 9:56:22 am reply quote 8

Anytime the academy honors someone as "a peaceful hero," it is probable that s/he is either a mass murderer, or a mass murderer in the making.

3 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 9:57:29 am reply quote 0

The Economist had a great piece on this man about 2 weeks ago; I posted a link then. I'll find it again.....

4 incanus  4/15/08 9:57:30 am reply quote 0

Fortunately they are a member of NATO

/

5 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  4/15/08 9:57:32 am reply quote 1

I wonder where outside of Philadelphia he lives. I have a right to know if the world's next islamanutter dictator is my neighbor!

6 Occasional Reader  4/15/08 9:58:25 am reply quote 1

re: #2 buzzsawmonkey

Anytime the academy honors someone as "a peaceful hero," it is probable that s/he is either a mass murderer, or a mass murderer in the making.

Hey, now that's not fair. Sometimes they merely urge on mass murderers.

7 Ben Hur  4/15/08 9:58:53 am reply quote 1

It's all about Turkey's military.

8 MandyManners  4/15/08 9:58:57 am reply quote 0

I wonder how Pres. Obama will respond.

9 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 9:59:02 am reply quote 4

re: #3 Grammy Cracker

The Economist had a great piece on this man about 2 weeks ago; I posted a link then. I'll find it again.....

Here it is:

Global Muslim networks....

10 Honorary Yooper  4/15/08 9:59:13 am reply quote 0

I posted this to the dead thread spinoff links yesterday.

11 Honorary Yooper  4/15/08 10:00:40 am reply quote 1

re: #9 Grammy Cracker

Here it is:

12 taxfreekiller  4/15/08 10:00:45 am reply quote 1

Russians cared for their children.
Islamic terrorist use the children as bombs.

It is all down this road, and we are on a straight stretch now, and speed is picking up.

13 RememberSekhmet?  4/15/08 10:00:54 am reply quote 0

I have a couple of Facebook friends in Turkey. Hope they stay safe!

14 buzzsawmonkey  4/15/08 10:01:33 am reply quote 0

re: #6 Occasional Reader

Hey, now that's not fair. Sometimes they merely urge on mass murderers.

You are quite right. I stand corrected.

15 taxfreekiller  4/15/08 10:02:11 am reply quote 1

So, this is why obama is hanging around Pa.?

16 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:02:42 am reply quote 0

He's in the US?

But....but...but....Whites....hatred.......color.. ....oppression......mean....

17 maddogg  4/15/08 10:02:53 am reply quote 1
Could there be an Islamic revolution in Turkey?

Yes, but it will never be as popular as corn bread dressing.

18 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:02:54 am reply quote 0

re: #11 Honorary Yooper

Yep, same story, except that I saw it in the National Review.

Seems our media is a little slow picking up the story; The Economist ran its piece on March 6th.

/not that I consider NR to be MSM!

19 JammieWearingFool  4/15/08 10:04:07 am reply quote 7

Who's he voting for in the Pennsylvania Democrat primary?

20 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:04:20 am reply quote 0

re: #16 Ben Hur

He's in the US?

But....but...but....Whites....hatred.... ...color......oppression......mean....

and...and...and...we're clinging to our guns and our fear of furiners!

/Um, might be a wise strategy in this case

21 Honorary Yooper  4/15/08 10:04:45 am reply quote 0

re: #18 Grammy Cracker

Seems our media is a little slow picking up the story; The Economist ran its piece on March 6th.

/not that I consider NR to be MSM!

Either way, I won't expect this to be in USA Today, much less the New York Times.

22 winston06  4/15/08 10:05:45 am reply quote 1

Turkey is another lost cause...

23 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:05:53 am reply quote 1

re: #21 Honorary Yooper

Either way, I won't expect this to be in USA Today, much less the New York Times.

Of course not! Where would they put the stories about Britney Spears' latest melt down if they took up valuable space with hard news?

24 Sharmuta  4/15/08 10:06:20 am reply quote 6

Ataturk is rolling in his grave.

25 Iron Fist  4/15/08 10:06:25 am reply quote 8

Fortunately, Islam is a Religion of Peace™. This could be quite bad if Islam were a Religion of Submission®.

27 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:07:18 am reply quote 1

re: #25 Iron Fist

Fortunately, Islam is a Religion of Peace™. This could be quite bad if Islam were a Religion of Submission®.

You're right.

Sharia would bring order.

And solve that little Joo problem.

Mmmm.....Something to consider here and all of Europe!

28 Opinionated  4/15/08 10:09:06 am reply quote 11

Where there are a lot of Muslims, there could at any minute be:

1 An Islamic revoution.
2 A woman killed for an "honor" crime
3 Outrage
4 Outrage plus riot
5 Jimmy Carter showing up to kiss some ass
6 Crap you can't even imagine
7 All of the above

29 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:09:29 am reply quote 0

re: #26 JammieWearingFool

Some

30 usmc1968  4/15/08 10:10:00 am reply quote 9

Well, the threads are moving fast. To fast for me, but I try to keep up at my age. The only cure for getting old is :dying young:

31 Iron Fist  4/15/08 10:10:01 am reply quote 5

re: #27 Ben Hur,

Turkey could be the lead domino that brings down all of Eurabia. It is a frightening possibility. And not one that we can do a lot about until we admit the true nature of Islam.

And begin to act accordingly.

32 Charlie Martel  4/15/08 10:10:02 am reply quote 1

sigh...I hate muslims, I really really do. I don't care what that makes me look like either.

33 buzzsawmonkey  4/15/08 10:10:14 am reply quote 3

re: #27 Ben Hur

You're right.

Sharia would bring order.

And solve that little Joo problem.

Mmmm.....Something to consider here and all of Europe!

Remember:

Communism: Share and Share Alike.

Islam: Sharia and Sharia-like.

34 JammieWearingFool  4/15/08 10:10:44 am reply quote 0

re: #29 Ben Hur

And here's the Pope with Arafat.
[Link:

35 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:11:02 am reply quote 0

re: #31 Iron Fist

,

Turkey could be the lead domino that brings down all of Eurabia. It is a frightening possibility. And not one that we can do a lot about until we admit the true nature of Islam.

And begin to act accordingly.

The Turkish military would never let it happen.

Gobble gobble!

36 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:11:28 am reply quote 1

I prefer this Turkey.

37 Iron Fist  4/15/08 10:11:36 am reply quote 0

re: #30 usmc1968,

Live fast, die young = great looking corpse.

Live young, die fast = fucked up corpse.

:-)

38 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:11:36 am reply quote 0

re: #32 Charlie Martel


You know full well.....

39 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:11:55 am reply quote 0

re: #34 JammieWearingFool

Thought so!

40 bulwrk  4/15/08 10:12:03 am reply quote 2

I'm not worried I've heard the Pope will announce his plans for a new crusades to reclaim Constantinople in his U.N. speech this week.

41 Sharmuta  4/15/08 10:12:30 am reply quote 0

re: #26 JammieWearingFool

Are we sure he's not a poor mountaineer barely keeping his family fed?

42 tfc3rid  4/15/08 10:12:36 am reply quote 1

OK, so... If this dude lives in the United States, just outside of Philly, why wouldn't it be imperative for the US, in the name of National Security interests, 'take care' of this character before he can amass a following and power?

43 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:12:38 am reply quote 0

Isn't bacon_eating kaffir in Turkey?

44 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:12:58 am reply quote 0

re: #34 JammieWearingFool

No, I was more like whoa, what's JPII doing with this guy?

May a non-Catholic offer the opinion that neither of them is worthy of mention in the same sentence the Pope (ANY Pope), let alone a face-to-face meeting?

45 alegrias  4/15/08 10:13:00 am reply quote 4

Re: djimmi John Esposito of Catholic University's projihadi activities:

Pope Benedict is supposedly trying to quash these marxist/liberation theologists operating out of Catholic schools, during his US visit which starts today.

Yank these yoots out by their roots!

This Pope sees islamization everyday, outside his Vatican window & knows the score is not good.

46 maddogg  4/15/08 10:13:21 am reply quote 0

re: #36 MandyManners

I prefer this

47 tfc3rid  4/15/08 10:13:41 am reply quote 0

re: #19 JammieWearingFool

Who's he voting for in the Pennsylvania Democrat primary?

Come on Jammie... He's a far right Conservative, dontcha know! Just like Ayatollah's.

48 JammieWearingFool  4/15/08 10:14:05 am reply quote 0

re: #39 Ben Hur

Thought so!

Popes obviously meet with almost anyone.

A nephew of mine has an audience with Benedict this weekend when he's in the NY area. Should be an interesting experience for the lad.

49 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:14:19 am reply quote 0

re: #46 maddogg

That is some fine pikkin'.

Yes, it is. (I spent 13 minutes or so looking for a good one.)

50 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:14:49 am reply quote 0

re: #48 JammieWearingFool

Popes obviously meet with almost anyone.

A nephew of mine has an audience with Benedict this weekend when he's in the NY area. Should be an interesting experience for the lad.


I'm trying to get myself in the synagogue to hear him speak.

I know peeps.

Or at least I thought I did.

51 Charlie Martel  4/15/08 10:15:18 am reply quote 0

re: #38 Ben Hur

.....yes?

52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  4/15/08 10:15:24 am reply quote 0

This would be a bloodbath which would almost have to drag in NATO and the EU.

53 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:15:26 am reply quote 0

re: #46 maddogg

That is some fine pikkin'.

Another.

54 alegrias  4/15/08 10:15:36 am reply quote 0

re: #4 incanus

Fortunately they are a member of NATO

/

* * *
Turkey cost us US lives, treasure & time in 2003 and later, because they wouldn't let our military enter Iraq through Turkey. They deserve no thanks--for not helping us liberate Iraq, they deserve discomfort & chickens come home to roost.

55 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:15:57 am reply quote 0

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

This would be a bloodbath which would almost have to drag in NATO and the EU.

Almost?

56 Cygnus  4/15/08 10:16:04 am reply quote 0

Better keep an eye on him.

57 Ringo the Gringo  4/15/08 10:16:17 am reply quote 0

re: #26 JammieWearingFool

Some

58 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:16:22 am reply quote 0

re: #36 MandyManners

I prefer this Turkey.

This turkey would be my preference...

59 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:16:38 am reply quote 0

re: #54 alegrias

* * *
Turkey cost us US lives, treasure & time in 2003 and later, because they wouldn't let our military enter Iraq through Turkey. They deserve no thanks--for not helping us liberate Iraq, they deserve discomfort & chickens come home to roost.

And, we rewarded them by letting them go after Kurds.

60 tfc3rid  4/15/08 10:17:02 am reply quote 0

re: #54 alegrias

Hey now... Watch it with that statement... Are you Jeremiah Wright?

61 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:17:04 am reply quote 0

re: #51 Charlie Martel

.....yes?


sigh...I hate muslims, I really really do. I don't care what that makes me look like either.

As in ALL Muslims?

You know what it makes you look like.

C'mon, you can say it.

62 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:17:44 am reply quote 0

re: #58 Grammy Cracker

This

63 Ringo the Gringo  4/15/08 10:17:46 am reply quote 0

One more time: Ataturk

64 Sharmuta  4/15/08 10:18:20 am reply quote 0
When Islamists pursue campaigns of hatred, Western officials not only pretend nothing is amiss but also, as in the case of Palestinian leaders, often increase their support. This week Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will address the judicial case against Erdogan and the AKP. Members of her staff suggest she will lend subtle support to the prime minister.

Oh, crap.

65 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:18:34 am reply quote 0

re: #62 MandyManners

Can't have a hoe-down with that. (I get sleepy just looking at it. It's oozing tryptophans.)

We could eat mine, then dance off the calories by listening to yours!?

66 Jinx  4/15/08 10:19:07 am reply quote 3

And with the theological takeover, how many kurds will be put to the sword? And will the western world care about another attempt at genocide?

67 Charlie Martel  4/15/08 10:19:13 am reply quote 0

re: #61 Ben Hur


I'm a... iz lom o fobe ik?

68 Alberta Oil Peon  4/15/08 10:19:29 am reply quote 0

I'm not quite sure what to make of this. I read the full article to which Charles linked, and I read the article to which Yooper linked. Sounds like they are talking about two different guys. Looking at the photos in Jammie's link, he scarcely looks like the typical mad mullah.

If Gulen is indeed a radical Islamist, he's certainly operating in deep cover. I find myself wondering if perhaps the radical Islamists are infiltrating his organization within Turkey for their own ends.

At least Turkey has a secular military which can and hopefully will step in if Islamic radicals try to seize power.

69 usmc1968  4/15/08 10:19:34 am reply quote 0

re: #61 Ben Hur


I'll say it for him = PISSED =

70 maddogg  4/15/08 10:19:35 am reply quote 0

re: #53 MandyManners

Excellent! I love the banjo, steel guitar, and mandolin.

(must be my backwoods southern hillbilly genes, right Barry?)

71 Ringo the Gringo  4/15/08 10:19:39 am reply quote 1

Now for my favorite joke:

If France were to invade Turkey from the rear, do you think Greece would be helpful?

72 Charlie Martel  4/15/08 10:20:42 am reply quote 0

re: #71 Ringo the Gringo


R O T F L M A O!

73 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:21:08 am reply quote 0

France, invade? Yeah, that's friggin' hilarious!

74 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:21:20 am reply quote 0

re: #67 Charlie Martel

I'm a... iz lom o fobe ik?


Well, if you don't include secular-pro-Western, what you and I would consider "normal" Muslims in your hatred, that would suffice.

Of course I made an ass out of myself sounding out what you wrote!

75 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  4/15/08 10:21:26 am reply quote 0

re: #55 MandyManners

Almost?

Unless the Turks kill them all first. Depends on who gets the upper hand first.

76 Killgore Trout  4/15/08 10:22:00 am reply quote 3

They key difference is that unlike Iran Turkey has a long tradition of military intervention to prevent Islam taking hold in politics. IIRC it happens about every 30 years or so. The military is fiercely secular and I don't think that has changed.

77 Sharmuta  4/15/08 10:22:09 am reply quote 1

re: #68 Alberta Oil Peon

At least Turkey has a secular military which can and hopefully will step in if Islamic radicals try to seize power.

I believe that was Ataturk's strategy. Let's hope the military hasn't been infiltrated too.

78 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:22:33 am reply quote 0

re: #65 Grammy Cracker

We could eat mine, then dance off the calories by listening to yours!?

Can't hoe-down with that in us! We'll eat yours later.

79 alegrias  4/15/08 10:23:44 am reply quote 0

re: #76 Killgore Trout

They key difference is that unlike Iran Turkey has a long tradition of military intervention to prevent Islam taking hold in politics. IIRC it happens about every 30 years or so. The military is fiercely secular and I don't think that has changed.

* * *
Except this time, Islamists are Turkey's ruling party.

80 Honorary Yooper  4/15/08 10:23:59 am reply quote 3

re: #45 alegrias

I can name one parish pastor he can defrock for being a liberation theologian, and this idiot hosted Jeremiah Wright in his church too: Fr. Michael Pfeger of St. Sabina, south side of Chicago.

81 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:24:23 am reply quote 0

re: #79 alegrias

* * *
Except this time, Islamists are Turkey's ruling party.


Meaningless.

The army is ready to take over at the drop of a fez.

82 maddogg  4/15/08 10:24:30 am reply quote 0

Mandy! hyears un fer yew:)

83 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:24:56 am reply quote 0

re: #78 MandyManners

Can't hoe-down with that in us! We'll eat yours later.

'kay, we'll do it your way...

/Dance, eat or eat, dance - it's all good!

84 Honorary Yooper  4/15/08 10:25:20 am reply quote 2

re: #81 Ben Hur

Meaningless.

The army is ready to take over at the drop of a fez.

Let's hope they are still as secular as they have been in the past.

85 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:25:38 am reply quote 0

re: #84 Honorary Yooper

Let's hope they are still as secular as they have been in the past.


Effen A.

86 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:25:50 am reply quote 0

re: #70 maddogg

Excellent! I love the banjo, steel guitar, and mandolin.

(must be my backwoods southern hillbilly genes, right Barry?)

Bet you like guns and church.

87 Charlie Martel  4/15/08 10:26:01 am reply quote 0

re: #74 Ben Hur


I'm sorry, my first post was a gut reaction from reading the article. I don't hate all muslims. But even if I did, I wouldn't be islamophobic.
Islamophobia, by definition, is the fear of Islam or Muslims. If I saw one of these Jihadis face to face, I would take him on, not run and hide like so many other people would.

88 BulgarWheat  4/15/08 10:27:21 am reply quote 0

re: #30 usmc1968

good to see you, Marine! Damn good to see you!

89 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:27:27 am reply quote 0

re: #86 MandyManners

Bet you like guns and church.

Weeeeee doggies! Thems all some big fun!

90 alegrias  4/15/08 10:27:35 am reply quote 0

re: #80 Honorary Yooper

* * *
Let the purge of marxists wearing faux clerical garb begin!

PS, Yooper, on another thread you called Francisco Franco a CHANGE agent, and i refuted that, because he was an ANTI-communist, anti-marxist defender of Spanish culture, traditions, and freedom FROM Stalin-sent internationalist atheism.

91 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:28:47 am reply quote 0

re: #87 Charlie Martel

I'm sorry, my first post was a gut reaction from reading the article. I don't hate all muslims. But even if I did, I wouldn't be islamophobic.
Islamophobia, by definition, is the fear of Islam or Muslims. If I saw one of these Jihadis face to face, I would take him on, not run and hide like so many other people would.

92 usmc1968  4/15/08 10:29:02 am reply quote 0

re: #88 BulgarWheat

Thanks, good to still be above ground.

93 alegrias  4/15/08 10:29:03 am reply quote 0

re: #81 Ben Hur

Meaningless.

The army is ready to take over at the drop of a fez.

* * *
Are you sure Turkey's army won't "disappearance" into thin air at the rate of a Baghdad Bob?

94 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:29:25 am reply quote 0

re: #82 maddogg

Mandy! hyears un fer yew

95 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:29:34 am reply quote 0

Gotta run to the post office, lest I risk a visit from some friendly folks from the IRS....

/BBL

96 BulgarWheat  4/15/08 10:29:55 am reply quote 0

re: #92 usmc1968

There's way too many asses yet to be kicked.

97 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:29:56 am reply quote 0

re: #87 Charlie Martel

I'm sorry, my first post was a gut reaction from reading the article. I don't hate all muslims. But even if I did, I wouldn't be islamophobic.
Islamophobia, by definition, is the fear of Islam or Muslims. If I saw one of these Jihadis face to face, I would take him on, not run and hide like so many other people would.

OK.

Let's try that again:

Not with a nic like that you wouldn't!

Statements with "all muslims" put us (and Charles) in a bad light with the lurkers.

No biggie.

I'm in a mood.

98 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:29:57 am reply quote 0

re: #83 Grammy Cracker

'kay, we'll do it your way...

/Dance, eat or eat, dance - it's all good!

Who's bringing the liquor?

99 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:30:53 am reply quote 0

re: #93 alegrias

* * *
Are you sure Turkey's army won't "disappearance" into thin air at the rate of a Baghdad Bob?


The Turkish military is far superior to what Saddam had. And to what Iran has.

Iran couldn't defeat Saddam.

100 Kenneth  4/15/08 10:31:11 am reply quote 1

re: #81 Ben Hur

Meaningless.

The army is ready to take over at the drop of a fez.

Maybe, maybe not. The Turkish army is not the formidable political force it once was. The officer corp has been infiltrated by the Islamists. If it comes time to act, the army may act, but maybe in favor of the Islamists.

BTW, Erdogan's party was hugely funded by the Saudis. Their tentacles are everywhere!

101 maddogg  4/15/08 10:31:12 am reply quote 0

re: #86 MandyManners

Bet you like guns and church.

Guns I love, Church not so much, but I respect those who do.

102 Grammy Cracker  4/15/08 10:31:27 am reply quote 0

re: #98 MandyManners

Who's bringing the liquor?

There's plenty of wine here, but the evening drinking-thread booze hounds have depleted my liquor supply! LOL

103 Killgore Trout  4/15/08 10:32:21 am reply quote 0
104 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:32:27 am reply quote 0

re: #89 Grammy Cracker

Weeeeee doggies! Thems all some big fun!

Just not at the same time!

105 akak  4/15/08 10:32:36 am reply quote 0

shocked

It's just a matter of setting up an office pool on where next...

107 Ben Hur  4/15/08 10:33:15 am reply quote 0

re: #100 Kenneth

Maybe, maybe not. The Turkish army is not the formidable political force it once was. The officer corp has been infiltrated by the Islamists. If it comes time to act, the army may act, but maybe in favor of the Islamists.

BTW, Erdogan's party was hugely funded by the Saudis. Their tentacles are everywhere!

Valid point. The latest jihadi offensive started in the 90's. They could've infiltrated - obviously SOME probably are. But over all I think not.

Regarding Saudi: Tentacles, yes. Testacles, no.

108 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:33:39 am reply quote 0

re: #102 Grammy Cracker

There's plenty of wine here, but the evening drinking-thread booze hounds have depleted my liquor supply! LOL

Wine at a hoe-down?

109 alegrias  4/15/08 10:33:57 am reply quote 0

re: #100 Kenneth

Maybe, maybe not. The Turkish army is not the formidable political force it once was. The officer corp has been infiltrated by the Islamists. If it comes time to act, the army may act, but maybe in favor of the Islamists.

BTW, Erdogan's party was hugely funded by the Saudis. Their tentacles are everywhere!

* * *
Turkey could be Pakistan on Europe's periphery, oh my!
Even Musharraf the good guy, couldn't keep it together, given his whole army was rotten.

110 alegrias  4/15/08 10:35:21 am reply quote 0

re: #106 Kenneth

111 usmc1968  4/15/08 10:35:37 am reply quote 0

re: #96 BulgarWheat

There was a time I could kick ass and take names, but--that time has passed.

112 Honorary Yooper  4/15/08 10:36:18 am reply quote 0

re: #90 alegrias

* * *
Let the purge of marxists wearing faux clerical garb begin!

PS, Yooper, on another thread you called Francisco Franco a CHANGE agent, and i refuted that, because he was an ANTI-communist, anti-marxist defender of Spanish culture, traditions, and freedom FROM Stalin-sent internationalist atheism.

I saw your answer, and I commented later. The Falange did overthrow the republic and were for a "corporate state" while doing all the above.

113 Just Another Four-letter Word  4/15/08 10:37:13 am reply quote 1

re: #108 MandyManners

Wine at a hoe-down?

...drinkin' it straight from the box, y'know...

JAFLW

114 Kenneth  4/15/08 10:37:18 am reply quote 0

re: #107 Ben Hur

The Turkish military has good relations with the Israeli military. I'm sure they are keeping a very close eye on this problem.

115 Kenneth  4/15/08 10:38:10 am reply quote 2

Looking on the bright side,

A President Hillary will also go a long way to defeating the popular delusion that a world ruled by female humans would be heaven-on-earth. It would be more like one of those chaotic single-parent households in Section-8 housing, ruled by a harried and distracted mom, with a shadowy man in the background molesting the little ones while she was off working at the WalMart.

116 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:39:58 am reply quote 0

re: #113 Just Another Four-letter Word

...drinkin' it straight from the box, y'know...

JAFLW

*swoon*

117 eschew_obfuscation  4/15/08 10:40:56 am reply quote 1

re: #8 MandyManners

I wonder how Pres. Obama will respond.

Respond?......don't be silly ;~)

118 Kenneth  4/15/08 10:42:13 am reply quote 0

Iraq’s Moment of Truth in Baghdad and Basra

Iraqi PM Nouri al-Maliki has been presented with a golden opportunity to build on political cohesion and bolster the rule of law by dismantling the Mahdi Army.

119 Charlie Martel  4/15/08 10:42:37 am reply quote 0

re: #97 Ben Hur


I'm sorry, Ben, Charles and all. I'm in kind of a mood too.

120 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:43:27 am reply quote 2

re: #115 Kenneth

I can't speak for other mothers but, I'd make an excellent POTUS. I don't want to see The Kid killed in combat so, I'd go in with utterly overwhelming force until every last pocket of resistance is flattened, scorched and obliterated. No pussy-footing around. No jaw-jaw. No quarter.

121 lawhawk  4/15/08 10:43:34 am reply quote 1

re: #106 Kenneth

"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"

Obama goes to Whole Foods? Do the unions know this? Whole Foods is the nation's second largest non-union food retailer behind the "evil" Walmart.

Besides, anyone with a functioning neuron would know that Whole Foods prices are often outrageously high - higher than other nearby supermarkets by a significant margin.

122 MandyManners  4/15/08 10:44:33 am reply quote 0

re: #117 eschew_obfuscation

Respond?......don't be silly ;~)

I was thinking of a repetition of 1979, with U.S. hostages and all that.

123 tfc3rid  4/15/08 10:45:17 am reply quote 1