Don't make prisoners wear tall hats.

did they mention the pope is pro life too?

Notice who wrote that piece:

By RACHEL ZOLL, AP Religion Writer

Seems Ms. Zoll has an axe to grind with President Bush I would think.

you know AP stands for Absolutely Pointless, right?

When will he deign to descend from Mount Olympus to tell us how fitting that paragraph is?

Benedict has been critical of harsh interrogation methods, telling a meeting of the Vatican’s office for social justice last September that, while a country has an obligation to keep its citizens safe, prisoners must never be demeaned or tortured

Nick Berg agrees

Did a quick google on Ms. Zoll and my oh my, she seems to have more than one axe to grind. Very controversial stuff she has written in the past.

No visits from Reuters today? Me so ronery.

Here's a question to ask your lefty friend who makes points like this. Would you rather be a prisoner in Italy or in Iran?

Don't expect a straight answer from a lefty. The cognitive dissonance rattling around in their brain doesn't allow them to think straight.

AP Story:

" New England welcomed a late spring in April, with the meadow covered with vibrant blossoms and the temperatures a crisp 72 degrees. In such times we must not forget the wretched prisoners housed and tortured in Cuba by the current administration."

How disgusting! Using the Pope to promote their agenda....

Truly- the msm has no shame.

They are Journalism majors. They just can't help themselves.

re: #10 pat

AP Story:

" New England welcomed a late spring in April, with the meadow covered with vibrant blossoms and the temperatures a crisp 72 degrees. In such times we must not forget the wretched prisoners housed and tortured in Cuba by the current administration."

LOL!

He did say a prayer for the left.

"Turn to your way of love those whose hearts and minds are consumed with hatred."

AP and other media/news outlets have lost their credibility a long time ago

The Associated (with terrorists) Press is still looking for any terrorist freedom-fighter who was injured while being interrogated tortured. If you or anyone you know was injured, please call us at 1-800-WE-SURRENDER.

re: #3 JohnnyReb

You can't always blame the reporter; sometimes an editor will insist on a paragraph like that.

I don't know anything about this reporter, so I'll start by giving her the benefit of the doubt.

It's interesting that the Pope has often spoken about what can essentially be called just war doctrine, and the need to fight Islamists. Yet, that part gets ignored - in favor of a passing notion of dealing humanely with the scum of the universe that seek to inflict mass carnage on a scale of 9/11 if given the opportunity. He himself sees the Church as a bulwark against religious fundamentalism (a very pointed direction at Islamists btw), and godless rationalism.

In other words, he's positioned the Church on the middle ground, and will take flak from all sides because he considers this a fight worth fighting, but within the construct of Christian theology.

Benedict has been critical of harsh interrogation methods, telling a meeting of the Vatican’s office for social justice last September that, while a country has an obligation to keep its citizens safe, prisoners must never be demeaned or tortured

Benedict has been critical of abortion proponents, telling a meeting of Catholics last year that people have a right to life, and must never be demeaned or discarded.

re: #18 lawhawk

It's interesting that the Pope has often spoken about what can essentially be called just war doctrine, and the need to fight Islamists. Yet, that part gets ignored - in favor of a passing notion of dealing humanely with the scum of the universe that seek to inflict mass carnage on a scale of 9/11 if given the opportunity. He himself sees the Church as a bulwark against religious fundamentalism (a very pointed direction at Islamists btw), and godless rationalism.

In other words, he's positioned the Church on the middle ground, and will take flak from all sides because he considers this a fight worth fighting, but within the construct of Christian theology.

Good analysis and I greatly admire this Pope for doing that.

Daniel Pearl was unavailable for comment.

Benedict has been critical of harsh interrogation methods, telling a meeting of the Vatican's office for social justice last September that, while a country has an obligation to keep its citizens safe, prisoners must never be demeaned or tortured.

News flash, Ms. Zoll- Benedict has also been quite critical of harsh ideologies such as islam in the past, and even on Friday:

"The promotion of human rights remains the most effective strategy for eliminating inequalities between countries and social groups, and increasing security," the pope said.

Those whose rights are trampled, he said, "become easy prey to the call to violence and they then become violators of peace."

Or was he just too nuanced for you to get it, lady?

re: #19 mama winger

Oh.

That didn't make it into the article?

nevermind

re: #18 lawhawk

And believe it or not - I got that part about godless rationalism and religious fundamentalism and the Pope's stance from none other than the NY Times:

Pope John Paul II, Benedict’s predecessor, condemned the 9/11 attacks as an “unspeakable horror” on the day they occurred. Pope Benedict, who was the church’s top theologian before he was elected in 2005, has suggested that in an age of terrorism inspired by extremism, his church is a middle ground between godless rationalism and religious fundamentalism.

The pope also insisted that the way to peace was by ensuring respect for human dignity.
"The promotion of human rights remains the most effective strategy for eliminating inequalities between countries and social groups, and increasing security," the pope said.
Those whose rights are trampled, he said, "become easy prey to the call to violence and they then become violators of peace."

These lines quickly flew over the heads of Islamic-dominated nations and their lefty, lapdog, lemmings.

If Rachel Zoll is a religion writer, then she didn't do even the most basic of research. At least, she seems totally unaware of all the other "festive crowds" who have greeted this pope. Also, the "little consolation" quote sounds pulled out of context.

ABC was similiarly skewed when I happened on their report while channel surfing. The report ignored the thunderous roar of young people yesterday and dredged up two minor items not mentioned anywhere else to harp on how the Church is so "desperately trying to reconnect with the young." No wonder no one watches the MSM any more.

re: #17 Dianna

You can't always blame the reporter; sometimes an editor will insist on a paragraph like that.

I don't know anything about this reporter, so I'll start by giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Couple samples of things this Rachel Zoll has written:

Christian right at crossroads: Typical smears against religious conservatives

President Carter convenes moderate Baptist meeting as counterweight to Southern Baptists: Ditto here

Obama's new religious problem: faith-based outreach hit by Wright controversy: Shameless damage control/shilling for Obama

Yep, she's creepy. You're probably right about the editor, though, since whoever that is is likely even more shriekingly liberal than she is (if that's even possible).

Liberals can't help themselves. Truly.

They're like a broken record. Same talking points 7/24.

I was able to back one of my liberal friends into a corner over what he considers to be torture on the part of the U.S., though, especially the squawking over non-lethal waterboarding. He couldn't define torture except in ambiguous terms and had no alternative solutions for interrogation tactics that would be considered 'humane' in his mind.

"That paragraph is a complete non sequitur, tossed into the middle of the article for no reason other than to grind a political axe."

Oh, you mean something like the NY Times's gratuitous slur in its article this morning (Sunday) about the Pope's celebration of mass at St. Patrick's -- in which the writers inserted a totally irrelevant snide remark about Rudy Giuliani?

"The service was intended primarily for clergy, but several prominent guests attended, including former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani and his wife, Judith. Mr. Giuliani, twice divorced, was among those who received communion, breaching church rules because he has annulled only his first marriage."

Ain't the objectivity of the mainstream press remarkable and awesome to behold?

OK, am I the only person out there who's fuming over the Pope's visit to Park East Synagogue? Not for what he said, but that ridiculous exchange of gifts. He gets a silver seder plate, and in exchange we get a REPLICA -- not even the real thing -- of something in the Vatican archives that was likely plundered from Jewish homes in the first place. G-d knows how many trillions of dollars are in the Vatican basement in stolen booty over centuries, certainly enough to feed the starving of the world many times over.

They really took their mask off for this one.

Pope Benedict at Ground Zero in New York, his comments (from BBC)

After arriving in the popemobile, Benedict knelt in silent prayer, and rose to light a memorial candle, and blessed with holy water what he called "the scene of incredible violence and pain".

He requested "eternal light and peace" for those who died, not only in New York but at the Pentagon in Washington DC and in a Pennsylvania field on 9/11.

"God of peace, bring your peace to our violent world," he said. "Turn to your way of love those whose hearts and minds are consumed with hatred."

re: #32 Ojoe

"God of peace, bring your peace to our violent world," he said. "Turn to your way of love those whose hearts and minds are consumed with hatred."

But will the islamists get it that he's calling for their conversion?

re: #33 Sharmuta

Who knows?

But I am glad the Swiss Guard are not merely decorative.

re: #30 copyace

OK, am I the only person out there who's fuming over the Pope's visit to Park East Synagogue? Not for what he said, but that ridiculous exchange of gifts. He gets a silver seder plate, and in exchange we get a REPLICA -- not even the real thing -- of something in the Vatican archives that was likely plundered from Jewish homes in the first place. G-d knows how many trillions of dollars are in the Vatican basement in stolen booty over centuries, certainly enough to feed the starving of the world many times over.

Apparently the answer to your question is yes.

Did you mean to /sarc this one? If you didn't all I can do is laugh. You do know you are posting on LGF right? The Pope has a basement with plundered Jewish booty? Really? I've been there, what room is that in? I missed it. Lots of cool Etruscan stuff. Maybe B16 has a couple of menorahs from when, according to Bill Maher, he was a Nazi. Maybe next time you can have a pleasant gift exchange with CAIR. I'm sure they might have something real nice for you.

re: #17 Dianna

You can't always blame the reporter; sometimes an editor will insist on a paragraph like that.

I don't know anything about this reporter, so I'll start by giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Cognito?

re: #30 copyace

OK, am I the only person out there who's fuming over the Pope's visit to Park East Synagogue? Not for what he said, but that ridiculous exchange of gifts. He gets a silver seder plate, and in exchange we get a REPLICA -- not even the real thing -- of something in the Vatican archives that was likely plundered from Jewish homes in the first place. G-d knows how many trillions of dollars are in the Vatican basement in stolen booty over centuries, certainly enough to feed the starving of the world many times over.

You are beyond my contempt.

re: #30 copyace

"...something in the Vatican archives that was likely plundered from Jewish homes in the first place."

Got any evidence or proof?

I got some evidence for you:

(from your profle)copyace
Registered since: Aug 22, 2007 at 11:47 am
No. of comments posted: 5

You must be very busy.

Here's one from Newsday : [Link: pope-newsday.blogspot.com...]

Notice that the Pope doesn't really say anything about Bush or Iraq and could have been talking about China .

Time to post this again, True German Ally's very informative post about Benedict:

#179 True German Ally 4/20/2005 8:57:37 am PDT

Pope Benedict may come across as the Great Inquisitor, but he has never refused discussion and arguments. He is firm on the "essentials" of the Catholic faith. The German Catholic professors he suspended clearly violated the essential principles of Catholicism. He is an extremely intelligent, bright personality... a bit shy with people though. He won't pretend to have the charisma of JPII.

From my conversations with him in the late 70s, when he was archbishop of Munich, I learned a few things about him:

1) That he hated the Nazis even during his short time in the Hitler Youth. He was a nominal member, but was exempted weeks after his compulsory joining because of his fragile health and studies in the Catholic seminary (many boys actually joined Catholic institutions to avoid service in the HJ.) His teen years had a lasting effect on him as he was able to see the difference between reality and what the Nazis taught. His love for truth and being truthful all the time stems from this early experience.

2) He was a progressive Catholic in his early year (played an important role at the 2nd Vaticanum), but the intolerance of 1968 made him change his mind. He abhorred communism and the carefree nihilist thinkings in these times and became a conservative, but not a reactionary, as many claim.

3) He saw the dangers of Islamic fanatism in the 70s already. Khomeini was a menetekel for him. At this time he didn't see Islam so much as a threat for Europe (yet), but for Asia and Africa.

4) He is more a friend of the Jews than most other Catholic priests. I remember him saying that Christians and Jews are on the same direction to salvation, just on different paths. Islam instead was an aberration that would lead humanity into a religious "dead end street" (Sackgasse was his exact word). He strongly favoured a rapprochement between the Catholic and Jewish faith, but didn't see any common ground between Christianity and Islam.

And yes, I think, we'll see a few surprises from him in the next years. I had to chuckle when I heard the Chicoms demands today. Oh boy, they are messing with the wrong guy here.

Benedict of Nursia one restored the Christian faith in a devastated Europe. Commentators have focussed much on Benedict XV as the closest role model of Ratzinger. But I think he's much closer to Benedict XIV.

[Link: [Link: www.newadvent.org...]...]

And yes, he loved the "Apfelmaultaschen" (pasta made with potato flour, filled with apples and powder sugar and cinnamon on top) my wife prepared for him :-)

They look like this:
[Link: [Link: www.donau.de...]...]

I guess you won't find this detail on CNN :-)

Busier than you, Sgt. Slappy, with a life. Which happens to include being the child of Holocaust survivors and for years my family has pursued claims against Germany and the Swiss banks -- which as you hopefully know have been settled for extremely modest amounts. Yes, it's not cut and dried who today is the "rightful" owner Jewish artifacts and personal possessions that were plundered at the time of the Temples by the Romans -- or in the centuries since -- yet it's perfectly valid as many do to question if the Jewish artifacts that are in Vatican catacombs really belong there. I hereby dedicate my posting #6 to you.

re: #30 copyace

certainly enough to feed the starving of the world many times over

The combined wealth of the top seven richest men in the world would entirely clear third-world debt. How many mouths would that feed ?
Kindly stop looking at the exchange of gifts with the Pope as purely a financial transaction. This would fit perfectly with a particularly vicious stereotype of Jewish people which all right=minded people entirely reject. The Pope ( Real PBOH) has been very generous to the American people with his moving tribute to 9/11 victims and to those who served so well on that terrible day. The Jewish leaders certainly aren't out for political point-scoring , so LEAVE IT OUT , will you ?
PS I'm NOT a Catholic .

I'm not looking at it as a financial transaction, dude. It's all well and good that his Eminence visited Park Avenue shul, and I'm sure that to the Jewish establishment this was viewed as a proud moment in Vatican-Jewish relations. It's that I'm personally not impressed: if the Pope wants to improve relations, a good way IMHO would be to return our stuff. The Maimonides manuscript, for example, which Jewish scholars are "graciously" allowed to view, but only that. What would be the Vatican reaction if it turned out the Israelis were holding an ancient manuscript of, say, Saint John?

That paragraph is a complete non sequitur, tossed into the middle of the article for no reason other than to grind a political axe.

This is why I am a proud LGF "member." Charles knows what is what.

re: #41 copyace

"Busier than you, Sgt. Slappy, with a life."

A bold claim indeed. You don't know me, nor the things I do in my off-LGF hours. I do make more than 5 comments in a year though... and I might be more than just a little busy.

You still have yet to provide evidence for your claim that the Pope hoards Jewish plunder.

re: #35 AndyMacOP

Apparently the answer to your question is yes.

Did you mean to /sarc this one? If you didn't all I can do is laugh. You do know you are posting on LGF right? The Pope has a basement with plundered Jewish booty? Really? I've been there, what room is that in? I missed it. Lots of cool Etruscan stuff. Maybe B16 has a couple of menorahs from when, according to Bill Maher, he was a Nazi. Maybe next time you can have a pleasant gift exchange with CAIR. I'm sure they might have something real nice for you.

Good reply. Some of that trolls' talking points come right out of the anti-Catholicism of the Ku Klux Klan.
When a person has been registered here for years, has watched Irans progress toward a nuclear device, and remains silent, yet professes to being a child of holocaust survivors, everything it says should be taken with a large grain of salt.

re: #45 Sgt.Slappy

You don't know me, nor the things I do in my off-LGF hours.

Fair enough, Sergeant. But this cuts both ways and the tone of your first response was, shall we say, a cheap shot. Given the long history of Vatican secretiveness of just what their holdings are, I could have done without the gift exchange at the ceremony (I would have liked his gift to have been 86'ing his resumption of the traditional Latin mass to convert the Jews, but that's another thread ...)

Here's just one news article you can start with:
[Link: www.wnd.com...]

re: #46 EC Marm

Good reply. Some of that trolls' talking points come right out of the anti-Catholicism of the Ku Klux Klan.
When a person has been registered here for years, has watched Irans progress toward a nuclear device, and remains silent, yet professes to being a child of holocaust survivors, everything it says should be taken with a large grain of salt.

Oh, I'm sorry, EC, I guess that if I don't have your wisdom and experience I must be a "troll." How dare you accuse me of Klan blatherings and remaining silent about Iran -- you have no idea of ways that I participate in Chicago-area activist events and frankly, I get OUTSIDE and do more than spending time online, which doesn't seem to fit within your little world. And by the way, it's Holocaust with a capital "H".

re: #48 copyace
I went to your wnd dot com link and found this:
An unattributed article - author really proud of his work?
Shetreet claimed to have evidence
he refused to disclose it
he had statements of people who claimed
Troof?

re: #48 copyace

And by the way, it's Holocaust with a capital "H".

"There are lots of resources for holocaust victims and holocaust survivors." link

Okay, I get the stuff about the anger over plundered items and junk, but come on, there are tons of people with axes to grind over plundered treasures or whatevs all over the world.

And come on, the pope's visit to a synagogue was a lovely symbolic gesture and that's it. Gift exchanges were a part of a lovely gesture that you, copyace, are reading way too much into.

Prisoners should never be demeaned? What retarded gibberish.

Is forcible detainment not demeaning?

OK, mjk, maybe I am reading too much into it. Heck, since no one else seems to have his or her knickers in a twist, yes I am. So I'll close off comment -- yes, it was a lovely gesture, and I watched the raw video for that reason, and if the gift exchange mishegos had been skipped I would have been completely satisfied. Copyace out.

The editors, the editors, the editors ...
They've got nerve whinging about glass ceilings when they maintain one of the most egrecious - one that blocks not only decent, fair-minded journalists, but a free flow of reliable reporting to the American public.

re: #2 Shug

did they mention the pope is pro life too?

Why hell no!

His Holiness reserves the razor's edge of his intellectual ferocity for the faceless practioners of what he calls the "dictatorship of relativism".

Based on the above article, the AP needs to spend a long Saturday afternoon in the confessional.

.

If the Pope had a copy of those waterboarding videos they would be available to future historians.

re: #57 Sacred Plants

If the Pope had a copy of those waterboarding videos they would be available to future historians.

Compare the physical toll of waterboarding to this:
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

The brilliance of simple waterboarding is what gets the Left so mad. So is the GITMO as a prison for the multi-national yet nation-less captured combatants of Al Qaeda. They don't respect ANY international law or treaty, not a single concept of universally held human decency - yet America had to put them SOMEPLACE out of the way after meeting them on the battlefield. What more brilliant a concept than on the island prison known as Cuba? Hardly a stone's throw from GITMO - literally - Castro's jails are full of journalists and political prisoners who've never held a weapon in their hands in their lives, but the Left is hell-bent on freeing not the decent folks, but the demons who'd kill them as fast as anyone else on the planet.

The Left is furious - outmanuevered, but they're determined to "fix" that.

Right, so the real story isn't the thousands massacred by muslims, it's the dozens of muslims made to suffer the ultimate torture of being made to wear underwear on their heads by evil non-muslims.

Got it.

re: #58 wanumba

Wow- purty powerful article-anytime some leftist boob complains of waterboarding I'm sending this to them to shut them up!

re: #58 wanumba

I saw similiar comparisons making the point that Israel should shut up about suicide terrorism, because they had more funerals from accidents. Now you´re arguing that there should be no complaint about the treatment of prisoners, because terrorists commit much worse massacres.

Both these comparisons are bogus in the same way. If you take WMD into the equation, you see that the death toll from suicide terrorism may suddenly overtake that from accidents, or that the number of prisoners may suddenly exceed the number of terrorists.

What exactly is "brillant" about the deletion of the videos of the mock drownings? If the CIA was convinced to be justified I would have expected it to preserve those materials to make their point. Deleting them resembles a sign of guilty conscience.

Charles --

The link in your post now goes to an updated and/or different article, written by a different author, and does not contain the highlighted paragraph. Just in case you want to hunt down a permanent link to the old article.

Apparently the Pope believes throatslitters and children blasters should never have to wear women's undies on their blessed noggins.

re: #53 copyace

Hey you idiot!
Do you want the Vatican to give back everything belonging to Jews?

How about you gringos giving Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah and Colorado back?

Let's play: "IT WAS MINE FIRST" !

It's a beautiful game :)

She also seemed amazed that the crowds were "festive" She actually said "unexpectedly festive". I mean what did she expect? pie throwing?, code pink on their stupid bed racing the popemobile down the ramp to ground zero ? Tears and lashing from all the sinners?

I could not find the line in the article you linked, but I did find it in three different sources by 3 different AP writers listed in each. I wonder who they are plagiarizing.

[Link: www.wtopnews.com...]
By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer

Benedict has been critical of harsh interrogation methods, telling a meeting of the Vatican's office for social justice last September that, while a country has an obligation to keep its citizens safe, prisoners must never be demeaned or tortured.

[Link: www.timesonline.com...]
By Victor L. Simpson, Associated Press Writer

Benedict has been critical of harsh interrogation methods, telling a meeting of the Vatican’s office for social justice last September that, while a country has an obligation to keep its citizens safe, prisoners must never be demeaned or tortured.

[Link: www.post-gazette.com...]
By Rachel Zoll, The Associated Press

Pope Benedict has been critical of harsh interrogation methods, telling a meeting of the Vatican's office for social justice last September that, while a country has an obligation to keep its citizens safe, prisoners must never be demeaned or tortured.

Interesting that all 3 different reporters decided to all say the exact same thing in each story.

Interesting that Victor Simpson left out that bit about interrogation in the "new" article to which Charles links. Or maybe Yahoo News cut that part out. Can they do that? Or did they just kindly ask Victor to cut the non-sequitur?

The reference is only seven months old, the AP really knows how to break a story.

What non-sequitur? The ministry of truth™ denies that there ever was such a paragraph.

re: #66 JeffinSac

What quote?

Charles; please update this. Also note comment 66. Google shows some of the "old" versions. Cognito, If you see this, what do you think? What is going on? Three writers, same paragraph, and then it goes bu-bye. Are all three the same person? Or do you give up rights when you write for AP. Did one of the three write the paragraph, which was inserted into the other stories? Or is this an impromtu "editorial" by AP?

zoll

loven here[Link: www.google.com...]

simpson here[Link: www.google.com...]

Amazing; three writers, one agenda.

somebody get screen shots

Associated Press is cheaper than Wikipedia, it does not even have a version history. Ouch!

re: #61 Sacred Plants

I saw similiar comparisons making the point that Israel should shut up about suicide terrorism, because they had more funerals from accidents. Now you´re arguing that there should be no complaint about the treatment of prisoners, because terrorists commit much worse massacres.

Both these comparisons are bogus in the same way. If you take WMD into the equation, you see that the death toll from suicide terrorism may suddenly overtake that from accidents, or that the number of prisoners may suddenly exceed the number of terrorists.

What exactly is "brillant" about the deletion of the videos of the mock drownings? If the CIA was convinced to be justified I would have expected it to preserve those materials to make their point. Deleting them resembles a sign of guilty conscience.

'Cause it's just WATER! H2O! And not even hot at that. Go yell at the Burmese junta for their versions of water torture, that they practice on theri own citizens for the crimes of being inconvenient. They're meaner aren't they? Those terrorists are alive, with everything in perfect working order. How about that video of the two US soldiers who were captured, cut up and their bodies stuffed with explosives in order to kill anyone coming to recover their remains?
You working to make sure that never happens again? Where are their freebee lawyers and human rights activitists demanding redress on their behalfs? Or have you conveniently and in pure bigotry dehumanized those men in your own mind as some sort of cartoonist robot soldiers, not human beings?
Hmm?

re: #78 wanumba

As to the human condition of the soldiers, I hope this link is just as enlighening to you as your Uganda link was to me.

The best explanation of the psychology of "waterboarding" I´ve seen on this blog was provided by Mark Bowden last Christmas. One interesting detail is that the German case he mentions to make his point has developed into an unintended direction. Coming soon to the Land of the Free: Jumpsuit Charities!

PS: Last time I yelled about Burma was Friday.