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Lizards Rapidly Evolving

Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:32:55 pm PDT

A tiny island in the Adriatic Sea is the home of some rather amazing lizards.

Italian wall lizards introduced to a tiny island off the coast of Croatia are evolving in ways that would normally take millions of years to play out, new research shows.

In 1971, scientists transplanted five adult pairs of the reptiles from their original island home in Pod Kopiste to the tiny neighboring island of Pod Mrcaru, both in the south Adriatic Sea. Genetic testing on the Pod Mrcaru lizards confirmed that the modern population of more than 5,000 Italian wall lizards are all descendants of the original ten lizards left behind in the 1970s.

While the experiment was more than 30 years in the making, it was not by design, according to Duncan Irschick, a study author and biology professor at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst.

After scientists transplanted the reptiles, the Croatian War of Independence erupted, ending in the mid-1990s. The researchers couldn’t get back to island because of the war, Irschick said.

In 2004, however, tourism began to open back up, allowing researchers access to the island laboratory. “We didn’t know if we would find a lizard there. We had no idea if the original introductions were successful,” Irschick said.

What they found, however, was shocking.

(Hat tip: Infidels Are Cool.)

387 comments

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1 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 6:34:57 pm 0
2 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 6:35:24 pm reply quote 0

Noooooooo!

3 mikeinmd  4/21/08 6:35:33 pm reply quote 5

CHANGE

4 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 6:36:28 pm 1
5 mikeinmd  4/21/08 6:36:46 pm reply quote 0

My BS detector just bleeped.

6 savage_nation[deleted]  4/21/08 6:37:17 pm 1
7 buster bunny  4/21/08 6:37:34 pm reply quote 4

God did it ......

while you werent looking ....

8 EC Marm  4/21/08 6:37:39 pm reply quote 6

A good software designer makes his code flexible, scalable, and adaptable, right? Who's to say the big coder in the sky didn't do the same.

9 jaunte  4/21/08 6:38:01 pm reply quote 5

I hope the lizards' skins are getting thicker.

10 Salem  4/21/08 6:38:35 pm reply quote 1

Ah, so God's kitchen is still open. I have a few dishes I'd like to suggest...

11 Buster Bunny  4/21/08 6:39:13 pm reply quote 0

this isnt evolution ...

Its global warming/profiteering/anti-islamic influences !

12 lawhawk  4/21/08 6:39:27 pm reply quote 0

Science!

13 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 6:39:30 pm reply quote 0
Along with the ability to digest plants came the ability to bite harder, powered by a head that had grown longer and wider.


Progressive!

14 jamgarr  4/21/08 6:39:35 pm reply quote 5

You're just asking for it aren'tyou Charles?

15 OldLineTexan  4/21/08 6:39:38 pm reply quote 7

So ten lizards produce mutations by inbreeding...

I dunno, sounds like the British Royal Family. What's the big whoop?

16 medaura18586  4/21/08 6:39:52 pm reply quote 0

who needs to prove evolution in the laboratory then!

Charles, you'd really unleash the beast if you ever came out of the closet as a full fledged evolutionarist! Lizard heads would explode... ;)

17 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:40:29 pm reply quote 0

re: #5 mikeinmd

My BS detector just bleeped.

Me too.

18 savage_nation[deleted]  4/21/08 6:40:31 pm 0
19 x-ray  4/21/08 6:40:49 pm reply quote 1

re: #9 jaunte

I hope the lizards' skins are getting thicker.

If they don't they won't survive.(but they may reproduce puppets)

20 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 6:41:08 pm reply quote 1

re: #16 medaura18586

Charles, you'd really unleash the beast if you ever came out of the closet as a full fledged evolutionarist! Lizard heads would explode... ;)


I'd like to see a poll on the topic. Any guesses on what the results would be?

21 jaunte  4/21/08 6:41:32 pm reply quote 0

re: #15 OldLineTexan

So ten lizards produce mutations by inbreeding...

I dunno, sounds like the British Royal Family. What's the big whoop?

I hope they don't turn out with those ears.

22 Dianna  4/21/08 6:41:50 pm reply quote 3

re: #20 Killgore Trout

I'd say it's none of my business.

23 lawhawk  4/21/08 6:41:54 pm reply quote 0

So, which came first, the egg or the lizard.

I guess Charles believes the egg came first.

24 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:41:56 pm reply quote 1

re: #20 Killgore Trout

I'd like to see a poll on the topic. Any guesses on what the results would be?

90% ID.

25 ypnxjkb  4/21/08 6:42:11 pm reply quote 6

The story didn't blame global warming, guess it will need to be rewritten before it hits academia.

26 JammieWearingFool  4/21/08 6:42:18 pm reply quote 0

I got some good lizard on a wall shots in San Diego. Now I just have to get them and hundreds of other photos off the camera.

27 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 6:42:20 pm 2
28 Noam Sayin'  4/21/08 6:42:27 pm reply quote 0

Well, seeing as we have 30 years of unobserved changes, it's still pretty much a theory, right?

*runs like hell*

29 Rain Patriot  4/21/08 6:42:32 pm reply quote 0

Uh-oh.

Forgive me but I'm gonna go ahead and call it: "in before 1,500+ comments"

30 Yankee Division Son  4/21/08 6:42:32 pm reply quote 0

an evolution thread? Uh oh...

/runs back to egg thread

31 Salem  4/21/08 6:42:36 pm reply quote 1

re: #24 VegasRick

90% ID.

Sobering thought...

32 MandyManners  4/21/08 6:42:48 pm reply quote 2

Watch out, MSM.

All your crotch is ours.

We're learning. We're growing.

33 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:42:51 pm reply quote 0

re: #27 song_and_dance_man

97%

97.59%

34 OldLineTexan  4/21/08 6:43:01 pm reply quote 1

re: #21 jaunte

I hope they don't turn out with those ears.

FLYING lizards!

/that can hear you coming a mile off

35 OldLineTexan  4/21/08 6:43:41 pm reply quote 0

re: #28 Noam Sayin'

Well, seeing as we have 30 years of unobserved changes, it's still pretty much a theory, right?

*runs like hell*

Did I see Barack Obama go by?

36 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:43:58 pm reply quote 0

re: #31 Salem

Sobering thought...

10% Drunk? I agree with that.

37 MandyManners  4/21/08 6:44:08 pm reply quote 0

re: #32 MandyManners

Watch out, MSM.

38 medaura18586  4/21/08 6:44:14 pm reply quote 1

re: #20 Killgore Trout

I'd like to see a poll on the topic. Any guesses on what the results would be?

A poll on the likely psychological effects of finding out that the Lizard King has jumped the evolution shark?

there would be guts everywhere... I don't know about poll results, but I'm sure Charles would gain a lot of new readers (and likely not lose many old ones)

Charles has dropped clues along the way as it is anyway...

39 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 6:44:14 pm 1
40 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:44:50 pm reply quote 0

re: #37 MandyManners

Shit.

41 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 6:44:51 pm reply quote 0

re: #15 OldLineTexan

So ten lizards produce mutations by inbreeding...

I dunno, sounds like the British Royal Family. What's the big whoop?

LOL! Touché!

42 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 6:44:57 pm reply quote 0

re: #24 VegasRick

I'd say 65% for ID/creationism.

43 rabidfox  4/21/08 6:45:02 pm reply quote 0

I'd love to see whether these lizards can interbreed with the original species and produce fertile offspring. Something else I'd like to see is a more controlled experiment where these conditions are reproduced in the laboratory. So the changes can be documented.

44 MandyManners  4/21/08 6:45:20 pm reply quote 0
45 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:45:30 pm reply quote 0

re: #37 MandyManners

Shit.

46 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 6:45:48 pm reply quote 0

re: #37 MandyManners

Shit.

All your crotch belong to us.

Whatever. Just watch the damn thing.

ROFL!

47 wanumba  4/21/08 6:45:54 pm reply quote 2

Why is it called evolution when it's natural selection in a isolated population? They remain 100% lizards, not something else.

Take a bunch of dog mutts and after a bit of selecting here and there, one produces a Basset Hound, short legs, long ears - hardly the dramatic characteristics that were evident in the mutt pool, but everything there was available, just needed to be isolated. The very same mutt pool can also produce a Great Dane or a chihauhua, simply with the right selecting. Mate them back togather and get mutt pups again.
What one Earth is the difference here with the lizards? Breeding is not evolution.

48 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 6:46:14 pm reply quote 3

re: #38 medaura18586

I liked your article Beyond Conservatism. I've been having similar thoughts lately.

49 Mich-again  4/21/08 6:47:05 pm reply quote 1

Interesting story and it makes mores sense that evolution happens across a species simultaneously when that species is faced with a changing environment as opposed to the traditional notion of evolution that useful genetic mutations propagate through natural selection.

Because if evolution was actually driven by natural selection of species with genetic mutations that made them more viable, then 6 billion years would not be enough time to get to where we are now. Not even close really.

50 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:47:16 pm reply quote 0

re: #42 Killgore Trout

I'd say 65% for ID/creationism.

That low?

51 David IV of Georgia  4/21/08 6:47:57 pm reply quote 4

re: #20 Killgore Trout

I'd like to see a poll on the topic. Any guesses on what the results would be?

Ron Paul 98%
Other 2%

52 medaura18586  4/21/08 6:48:07 pm reply quote 2

re: #42 Killgore Trout

I'd say 65% for ID/creationism.

Oh,.. a poll on THAT!?

From what I learned reading that 2.5K+ thread last night,.. and seeing the ding-to-plus ratio, I'd say 70% and up ID/Creationist (assuming the readership last night was representative of LGF's demographics)

Not only that, but the God crowd seems to be bigger mouthed/more assertive.

53 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:49:12 pm reply quote 2

re: #49 Mich-again

Interesting story and it makes mores sense that evolution happens across a species simultaneously when that species is faced with a changing environment as opposed to the traditional notion of evolution that useful genetic mutations propagate through natural selection.

Because if evolution was actually driven by natural selection of species with genetic mutations that made them more viable, then 6 billion years would not be enough time to get to where we are now. Not even close really.

I'd be convinced if they got back their and the lizards were smoking and drinking and posting on LGF.

54 Bloodnok  4/21/08 6:49:33 pm reply quote 1

OT

John Kerry was on hand to pin a (wait for it) Purple Heart on the chest of Army PFC Sean Bannon prior to today's Rangers-Red Sox game.

The man (and apparently the Sox) have no shame.

Photo

Better photo on redsox.com (click on photo gallery -first one).

55 wolfie  4/21/08 6:49:39 pm reply quote 0

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!

56 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 6:49:47 pm 1
57 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:50:30 pm reply quote 1

re: #52 medaura18586

Oh,.. a poll on THAT!?

From what I learned reading that 2.5K+ thread last night,.. and seeing the ding-to-plus ratio, I'd say 70% and up ID/Creationist (assuming the readership last night was representative of LGF's demographics)

Not only that, but the God crowd seems to be bigger mouthed/more assertive.

Like the lizards with the bigger heads, we evolved.

58 Melchizedek  4/21/08 6:50:38 pm reply quote 0

How do you falsify evolution? Everybody should know this one.

59 medaura18586  4/21/08 6:50:51 pm reply quote 1

re: #48 Killgore Trout

I liked your article Beyond Conservatism. I've been having similar thoughts lately.

Thanks,

I am getting more thoughts to add to that article. Thing is, as I have stated it, I am preaching only to the converted. So,.. I have had plenty of interesting debates with intelligent religious people about it, and I think I know how to expand it to engage them in meaningful debate which will hopefully leave the parties open to agree to mutual position.

There's no point in arguing if everyone knows in advance they're not going to change their respective minds. There is a need for common grounds.

I'll pop out a new article in a couple of weeks or so,.. still brewing on the ideas

60 snowcrash  4/21/08 6:51:22 pm reply quote 0

We are back to evolution? Ugh. Cute lizard anyway.

61 soulpile  4/21/08 6:51:38 pm reply quote 1

"The new species wiped out the indigenous lizard populations, although how it happened is unknown, he said."

Interesting. I wonder if that original species would have wiped out had scientists not introduced the new species to the environment.

In any case, the adaptation of the lizards to the new environment is neat and intriguing. I do hope they release more in-depth studies on them eventually so we can see what went on.

62 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:53:23 pm reply quote 0

Brigitte or evolution.
Evolution or Bridgitte.
hmmnnn.

63 Jinx McHue  4/21/08 6:54:36 pm reply quote 1

And amazingly enough, they're still lizards! Who'd have thunk it!

64 LoFlyer  4/21/08 6:54:41 pm reply quote 0

re: #37 MandyManners

Shit.

65 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 6:55:33 pm -1
66 Orbit Rain  4/21/08 6:56:22 pm reply quote 0

"It would be akin to humans evolving and growing a new appendix in several hundred years, he said."

If that's what we needed, that's what would happen.

67 Mich-again  4/21/08 6:56:29 pm reply quote 0

Lizards growing gizzards. Weirod.

68 EC Marm  4/21/08 6:57:02 pm reply quote 0

Hey, mama winger, you still around to represent the bigger mouthed/assertive God squad? :~)
Gettin' late here.

69 OldLineTexan  4/21/08 6:57:04 pm reply quote 1

re: #62 VegasRick

Brigitte or evolution.
Evolution or Bridgitte.
hmmnnn.

See, Brigitte is the obvious product of evolution.

Millions of years ago, there were only proto-human ape-like ancestors. They were hairy and smelly, and scratched and picked insects off each other all day.

Naturally, this repulsiveness made mating almost impossible.

So they evolved to be relatively hairless, with large breasts, wide hips, and full, pouty lips to attract mates. Which mates were forced to develop large right rear pockets for over-sized wallets. And cleft chins.

Hence humans.

/simple, AND A JOKE.
//NO SEETHING

70 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 6:57:07 pm reply quote 6

re: #53 VegasRick

I'd be convinced if they got back their and the lizards were smoking and drinking and posting on LGF.

A koala bear is sitting in a big tree, smoking a joint. Along comes a little lizard, who says, "What are you doin' up there?". The koala says, "I'm smoking a joint. Come join me." So the lizard climbs up the tree and shares the joint.

Soon, the lizard is thirsty. So he climbs back down the tree and goes the the edge of the river to drink. Along comes a crocodile, who says, "Hey, little guy! What are you doin' here?"

"I was smokin' a joint with Koala in the big tree, but I got thirsty." says the lizard. "Really?", says the crocodile, "I'd like to smoke a joint, too!" So he heads for the big tree.

Koala sees the croc at the base of the tree and says "DAMN, dude! How much did you drink?!"

/go ahead. Groan.

71 HelloDare  4/21/08 6:57:51 pm reply quote 7

Here's an experiment. Stick Al Gore on an island for 30 years.

72 medaura18586  4/21/08 6:57:54 pm reply quote 1

re: #48 Killgore Trout

oh and btw, that article has been dinged down rabidly in the spinoffs... which was almost flattering in a weird way...

73 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 6:59:22 pm reply quote 0

re: #51 David IV of Georgia

Ha!

74 VegasRick  4/21/08 6:59:33 pm reply quote 0

re: #70 Grammy Cracker

A koala bear is sitting in a big tree, smoking a joint. Along comes a little lizard, who says, "What are you doin' up there?". The koala says, "I'm smoking a joint. Come join me." So the lizard climbs up the tree and shares the joint.

Soon, the lizard is thirsty. So he climbs back down the tree and goes the the edge of the river to drink. Along comes a crocodile, who says, "Hey, little guy! What are you doin' here?"

"I was smokin' a joint with Koala in the big tree, but I got thirsty." says the lizard. "Really?", says the crocodile, "I'd like to smoke a joint, too!" So he heads for the big tree.

Koala sees the croc at the base of the tree and says "DAMN, dude! How much did you drink?!"

/go ahead. Groan.

I did.

75 EC Marm  4/21/08 6:59:33 pm reply quote 0

re: #65 song_and_dance_man

Wouldn't it be something if a blogs code came out of nowhere.


I know that computer code can slowly evolve. But the spontaneous appearance of code? I wish. Coulda saved me many a sleepless night.

76 itellu3times  4/21/08 6:59:46 pm reply quote 0

re: #8 EC Marm

A good software designer makes his code flexible, scalablescaley, and adaptable, right? Who's to say the big coder in the sky didn't do the same.

Fixed it.

77 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 7:00:25 pm reply quote 1

re: #72 medaura18586

I posted this article about the lizards the other day. I assume the same thing happened. Accept scorn as a badge of honour.

78 dwb  4/21/08 7:00:43 pm reply quote 0

Hell, I was all excited to see how they evolved into lizard people..... Tease.

79 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:00:56 pm reply quote 1

re: #74 VegasRick

I did.

Did you see my post to you on the *egg* thread?

/NO COOKIES FOR YOU!? Horrors!

80 itellu3times  4/21/08 7:01:07 pm reply quote 0

re: #75 EC Marm

I know that computer code can slowly evolve. But the spontaneous appearance of code? I wish. Coulda saved me many a sleepless night.

It's easy, just wait four billion years.

81 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 7:01:53 pm reply quote 3

re: #56 song_and_dance_man


And now that these lizards have mutated to adapt is there a chance we will see them transit into another species. Not likely.


Very likely.

82 VegasRick  4/21/08 7:01:59 pm reply quote 0

re: #79 Grammy Cracker

Did you see my post to you on the *egg* thread?

/NO COOKIES FOR YOU!? Horrors!

Missed that one I was checking out Megathread (ID/Darwin).

83 savage_nation[deleted]  4/21/08 7:02:34 pm 0
84 DownRightMeanAmerican  4/21/08 7:02:37 pm reply quote 0

re: #42 Killgore Trout

certainly you jest?

85 VegasRick  4/21/08 7:02:44 pm reply quote 0

re: #71 HelloDare

Here's an experiment. Stick Al Gore on an island for 30 years.

With 2 coconuts and a banana.

86 soulpile  4/21/08 7:03:15 pm reply quote 0

re: #70 Grammy Cracker

Thanks for the laugh.

87 VegasRick  4/21/08 7:03:17 pm reply quote 0

re: #83 savage_nation

How long is that thread now?

When I left it was 2271.

88 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:03:37 pm reply quote 0

re: #82 VegasRick

Missed that one I was checking out Megathread (ID/Darwin).

Here you go:

Girl Scouts refuse to sell cookies

89 savage_nation[deleted]  4/21/08 7:03:40 pm 0
90 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 7:04:01 pm 0
91 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:04:12 pm reply quote 0

re: #86 soulpile

Thanks for the laugh.

You're welcome. I'm here all week.....

/LOL

92 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:04:40 pm reply quote 0

re: #89 savage_nation

whoa!

Hey there, Savage! How's by you tonight?

93 savage_nation[deleted]  4/21/08 7:05:14 pm 0
94 VegasRick  4/21/08 7:05:58 pm reply quote 1

re: #88 Grammy Cracker

Here you go:

95 itellu3times  4/21/08 7:06:30 pm reply quote 0

While this lizard business may be a nice study case, I wonder what it really shows. There was likely quite a genetic spread among the original ten lizards, and they were probably close genetically to other species with other characteristics. In a good environment they would generate a lot of variants. Of the 5,000 currently, there might have been 50,000 or so that were born and didn't make it, because they were less fit to the new environment, those are probably typical numbers for small animals like that.

Note that this gives them a much better chance at survival, than if the original ten had very close genetics, and would not have generated nearly the diversity (!) in characteristics.

So just what are these Italian fence lizards anyway, they look halfway between the SoCal fence lizards and the local "alligator lizards", but I guess these eat more prosciutto?

96 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 7:06:44 pm 0
97 VegasRick  4/21/08 7:07:15 pm reply quote 0

re: #96 song_and_dance_man

NO, not that one again.

I'll stop now.

98 savage_nation[deleted]  4/21/08 7:08:09 pm 0
99 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:08:53 pm reply quote 0

re: #93 savage_nation

Me good. Life is getting better for me.

New job still treating you right, I hope! Plus, spring is, well, springing... so driving must be getting easier / more fun.

100 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:09:28 pm reply quote 0

re: #96 song_and_dance_man

NO, not that one again.

LOL! You read my mind!

101 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 7:10:36 pm reply quote 2

re: #90 song_and_dance_man

Speciation
. I'd guess it's pretty likely that they've become a separate species from the lizards that were dropped off 30 years ago.

102 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:10:44 pm reply quote 1

re: #95 itellu3times

While this lizard business may be a nice study case, I wonder what it really shows. There was likely quite a genetic spread among the original ten lizards, and they were probably close genetically to other species with other characteristics. In a good environment they would generate a lot of variants. Of the 5,000 currently, there might have been 50,000 or so that were born and didn't make it, because they were less fit to the new environment, those are probably typical numbers for small animals like that.

Note that this gives them a much better chance at survival, than if the original ten had very close genetics, and would not have generated nearly the diversity (!) in characteristics.

So just what are these Italian fence lizards anyway, they look halfway between the SoCal fence lizards and the local "alligator lizards", but I guess these eat more prosciutto?

There aren't too many Lizards at LGF who are on the fence.....

103 Thanos  4/21/08 7:11:31 pm reply quote 0

Hrmm
Falsifying evolution --
well let's since some of it rests on fossil record, if you found a modern species skeleton in wrong strata with other ancient skeletons, but that's never happened to my knowledge.

If you took same species, put it into two separate distinct environments and zero difference developed between the two over a very extended period of time, that could do it as well - that hasn't happened to my knowledge either.

104 soulpile  4/21/08 7:12:02 pm reply quote 0

re: #91 Grammy Cracker

Great! The world is in serious need of good jokes. :)

106 itellu3times  4/21/08 7:12:26 pm reply quote 0

re: #101 Killgore Trout

107 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:13:01 pm reply quote 0

re: #104 soulpile

Great! The world is in serious need of good jokes. :)

Aww, geez, they have to be GOOD jokes? The pressure.....


/LOL

108 soulpile  4/21/08 7:14:21 pm reply quote 0

re: #107 Grammy Cracker

Well, my sense of humour doesn't click with most people (don't ask me to tell a joke, I get blank stares)... so I might think bad jokes are really good. Who knows?!

109 VegasRick  4/21/08 7:14:38 pm reply quote 0

re: #105 Palandine

110 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 7:14:46 pm 0
111 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 7:14:49 pm reply quote 1

re: #106 itellu3times

Would think that would take a lot more time.


Surprise!

112 Mich-again  4/21/08 7:15:31 pm reply quote 0

The inetersting thing about this story is it blows a hole in the science of evolution, at least the common understanding of it. A definition from Wiki..

In biology, evolution is the process of change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. The genes that are passed on to an organism's offspring produce the inherited traits that are the basis of evolution.

But this example says that each individual member of that species adopts on their own. The mutation in the digestive tracts of the lizards was not an example of a genetic mutation that made the ones with the mutation more viable. It happened across the species over a very short period of time.

So while it does show that creatures adapt, maybe it doesn't happen quite the way that scientists have said it did slowly over thousands of generations. Maybe, the evolutionists don't know everything after all. Imagine that.

113 Killgore Trout  4/21/08 7:15:37 pm reply quote 0

re: #105 Palandine

Ha!

114 zmdavid  4/21/08 7:15:55 pm reply quote 4

The Theory of Evolution keeps evolving!

115 Palandine  4/21/08 7:16:18 pm reply quote 0

re: #109 VegasRick

That right there proves it! .......um .....no I have never heard of "the onion" what is it?

It's a humor/satire magazine. :)

/Closest I'll ever come to an evolution thread.

116 medaura18586  4/21/08 7:16:29 pm reply quote 3

re: #114 zmdavid

The Theory of Evolution keeps evolving!

...as it should

117 itellu3times  4/21/08 7:16:40 pm reply quote 0

re: #103 Thanos

Hrmm
Falsifying evolution --
well let's since some of it rests on fossil record, if you found a modern species skeleton in wrong strata with other ancient skeletons, but that's never happened to my knowledge.

If you took same species, put it into two separate distinct environments and zero difference developed between the two over a very extended period of time, that could do it as well - that hasn't happened to my knowledge either.

Come on, just look at the DNA between generations, not even that, look at the DNA processes of duplication and the error rate, trying to falsify evolution is about as promising as falsifying that your car really has an engine.

Nobody denies that some evolution goes on, the question is whether it can make the big jumps to new species. And really, that's not much of a question, either.

You want a real question, provide the mapping of a few DNA bases to the physical features on complex animals. Why should these tiny molecular changes produce an arm or a leg or a wing? This is certainly going on, even if there were no evolution - but if we could answer these questions of ontogenetic differentiation, I suspect that the larger questions would be answered, too.

118 VegasRick  4/21/08 7:17:12 pm reply quote 1

re: #115 Palandine

It's a humor/satire magazine. :)

/Closest I'll ever come to an evolution thread.

I forgot the/

119 Thanos  4/21/08 7:17:54 pm reply quote 1

re: #106 itellu3times

Would think that would take a lot more time.

Well not according to the environmentalists. The same spotted owl that nests everywhere in Socal and Mexico is species same as that which supposedly only nests in old growth forest in Oregon. While the markings are different, they haven't achieved distinct speciation between the varieties, even though the anti-logging crowd would like us all to believe that have within the last three decades...

Different organs, now that's something....

120 soulpile  4/21/08 7:17:56 pm reply quote 0

re: #110 song_and_dance_man

"...then we should have monkey's that are almost hairless and are beginning to speak."

Don't you know? That's us!

121 VegasRick  4/21/08 7:19:49 pm reply quote 0

re: #116 medaura18586

...as it should

So my great-great-great uncle Vito really did have gorillas working for him!

122 Thanos  4/21/08 7:20:14 pm reply quote 2

re: #112 Mich-again

The inetersting thing about this story is it blows a hole in the science of evolution, at least the common understanding of it. A definition from Wiki..


But this example says that each individual member of that species adopts on their own. The mutation in the digestive tracts of the lizards was not an example of a genetic mutation that made the ones with the mutation more viable. It happened across the species over a very short period of time.

So while it does show that creatures adapt, maybe it doesn't happen quite the way that scientists have said it did slowly over thousands of generations. Maybe, the evolutionists don't know everything after all. Imagine that.

You need to read up on punctuated equilibrium. That's only part of the theory you are quoting above. Hot topic of debate in science for awhile now.

123 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 7:20:22 pm 0
124 Egfrow  4/21/08 7:20:32 pm reply quote 8

The kicker to this whole article is the last paragraph

What could be debated, however, is how those changes are interpreted—... and not a "plastic response to the environment..."

...All of this might be evolution," Hendry said. "The logical next step would be to confirm the genetic basis for these changes."

This last line leaves off no date or mention of when they will go about, or have already performed the genetic testing. They already alluded to genetic testing early on in the article. So what gives, why the cliff hanger?

Here's my theory, this species of lizard survived for millions of years and already had the DNA code to make this kind of environmental adaption. Dormant DNA is activated because of a lack or presence of certain proteins in the digestive track which triggers cellular activity in new borns in sperm or egg. It's like an on off switch of adaptability. DNA does not just change uless certain segments of the DNA are unstable and change from generation to generation naturally. Kinda like an HIV RNA strand keeps changing on every iteration.

125 wolfie  4/21/08 7:20:42 pm reply quote 3

re: #110 song_and_dance_man

That's all fine and well and is well documented as fact. I want to see the transitional fossils or better yet a contemporary version of a fish turning into a bird. If evolution as it is taught is true, then we should have monkey's that are almost hairless and are beginning to speak.


Joe Biden?

126 VegasRick  4/21/08 7:20:51 pm reply quote 0

Gotta run bbl.

127 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 7:22:15 pm 1
128 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:22:24 pm reply quote 0

re: #110 song_and_dance_man

That's all fine and well and is well documented as fact. I want to see the transitional fossils or better yet a contemporary version of a fish turning into a bird. If evolution as it is taught is true, then we should have monkey's that are almost hairless and are beginning to speak.

Oh God, do I have a comeback line for this, but I'll save Stinky the trouble and self-delete!

129 zmdavid  4/21/08 7:23:00 pm reply quote 0

re: #125 wolfie

Joe Biden?

Joe Biden talks. Alot.

130 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  4/21/08 7:23:12 pm 0
131 Grammy Cracker  4/21/08 7:23:55 pm reply quote 0

re: #130 song_and_dance_man

I think I just said it.

Pretty much! GMTA!