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Zombie: Olympic Torch Relay Updated

Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:11:29 pm PDT

Zombie has posted a major update of the Olympic Torch Relay photo/video report. Among many awesome pictures:

125 comments

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1 LoFlyer  4/25/08 6:13:29 pm reply quote 0

Is everyone chicken to post on this thread?

2 bikermailman  4/25/08 6:13:35 pm reply quote 0

wow

3 Ma Sands  4/25/08 6:15:21 pm reply quote 0

re: #1 LoFlyer

:) Not me.

4 savage_nation[deleted]  4/25/08 6:15:27 pm 2
5 hayseed  4/25/08 6:16:14 pm reply quote 0

can you say Genesis....I know you can

//dumb frickin hill jack

6 solomonpanting  4/25/08 6:16:27 pm reply quote 0

The vast majority of Darfur activists were "white" Americans...

That's typical.

7 hayseed  4/25/08 6:17:11 pm reply quote 0

Zombies reports are cool though.lol

8 zombie  4/25/08 6:17:23 pm reply quote 2

re: #4 savage_nation

not me. I got the zombietime hat tip, yessiree

Two hat tips, actually, one for each video!

Thanks!

Also thanks to rawmuse, who tried (and like me, failed) to post the same videos, which YouTube rejected at first. Only savage_nation could get them to work!

9 slokat  4/25/08 6:17:37 pm reply quote 0

Photographers of the World Unite!

/just saying

10 rawmuse  4/25/08 6:18:27 pm reply quote 0

Just another day in SF. Only one insult away from a riot at any given time.

11 rawmuse  4/25/08 6:19:28 pm reply quote 0

re: #8 zombie

Two hat tips, actually, one for each video!

Thanks!

Also thanks to rawmuse, who tried (and like me, failed) to post the same videos, which YouTube rejected at first. Only savage_nation could get them to work!

Here's hoping they stay up a long while.

12 LoFlyer  4/25/08 6:19:33 pm reply quote 0

Thanks Zombie! We see through your efforts what goes down in SF demonstrations that are never shown on MSM. I have never seen a city more prepared to demonstrate at a drop of hat than San Francisco...

13 freetoken  4/25/08 6:20:17 pm reply quote 0

My own interaction with mainland Chinese has left me to conclude that the feelings for Chinese nationalism (not communism, but plain old nationalism) is very, very strong.

Whether it be about Tibet, Taiwan, Vietnam, or even the Falun Gong, my Chinese friends had only loathing (for the aboves' actions as seen as being anti-Chinese.)

So, where does this leave the World?

I'm only glad I live in a country where the different parties could protest peacefully...

14 Dr. Shalit  4/25/08 6:21:08 pm reply quote -3

OK Everyone -

Let's sort it out.

1. Taiwan is today a Democracy. Much like South Korea, it took some time.
By all standards in today's world (see Kossovo) Taiwan could indeed be "a nation," though their own position is that they are - "part of China."

2. Tibet has been "part of China" - more or less (generally less) for a lot of years. Re: TIBET - the Dali-Lama is ok with being "part of China."

Seems to me that the Taiwanese and the Tibetans just might be the most loyal CHINESE that exist. Discussion starts here.

-S-

15 solomonpanting  4/25/08 6:21:09 pm reply quote 0

So many groups!

Let a hundred nationalities bloom.

16 zombie  4/25/08 6:21:39 pm reply quote 3

Note how in the sign depicted above, and in the report itself, the Uyghurs -- who use an Islamic crescent on a blue field as their flag -- are on the "good guys" side of folks protesting against the Communist regime.

This was the one controversial aspect of my original report: Favoring the political aspirations of a Muslim group over their communist oppressors!

Shades of the Taliban vs. the Russians in Afghanistan?

Is it a mistake to give the Uyghurs slack? Are they really the terrorists the Chinese claim they are?

Agghh! The real world is a difficult place!

17 brainwizard73  4/25/08 6:21:55 pm reply quote 0

This is one of those rare times that I can't understand "two sides" to this issue. Red China is a bunch of economic opportunists and militaristic thugs. While I get that there are protests of the torch (a lot of good that is doing...) who the hell do these "pro-china" people think they are? Do they know what type of regime they support.

Better yet, did anyone make sure that 14 747 jumbos didn't land at SF International that morning from Peking?

18 beachkatie  4/25/08 6:21:55 pm reply quote 0

Thankyou Zombie For your pics. ! :)

19 IslandLibertarian  4/25/08 6:22:12 pm reply quote 0

Pictures of atrocities committed by China: Effective
Signs calling for freedom from Chinese oppression: Effective
Street Theater of brutality: Lame.Please make it illegal!

I do sympathize with Tibet, Burma and Taiwan.......(some day I'll tell you about my father hosting 6 Taiwanese fighter pilots on a visit to a BIG aeronautical factory).

20 snowcrash  4/25/08 6:23:29 pm reply quote 0

Zombie, I watched live CNN coverage that day and it came nowhere near the level of coverage that you provided. Thanks again.

21 Fenway_Nation  4/25/08 6:24:06 pm reply quote 0

That's a pretty motley assortment there.

As soon as I heard the torch was coming to SF, my first thought was I bet there's gonna be a whole lot of photographic fodder for Zombie...

22 NoSubmission  4/25/08 6:24:19 pm reply quote 1

Lot of nightmare-inducing images coming out of China.

23 savage_nation[deleted]  4/25/08 6:24:31 pm 0
24 NoSubmission  4/25/08 6:25:27 pm reply quote 0

re: #16 zombie

Note how in the sign depicted above, and in the report itself, the Uyghurs -- who use an Islamic crescent on a blue field as their flag -- are on the "good guys" side of folks protesting against the Communist regime.

This was the one controversial aspect of my original report: Favoring the political aspirations of a Muslim group over their communist oppressors!

Shades of the Taliban vs. the Russians in Afghanistan?

Is it a mistake to give the Uyghurs slack? Are they really the terrorists the Chinese claim they are?

Agghh! The real world is a difficult place!


What is interesting about the Muslims in China is that they are the sole Muslims with woman Imams.

25 Dr. Shalit  4/25/08 6:25:33 pm reply quote 1

re: #13 freetoken

My own interaction with mainland Chinese has left me to conclude that the feelings for Chinese nationalism (not communism, but plain old nationalism) is very, very strong.

Whether it be about Tibet, Taiwan, Vietnam, or even the Falun Gong, my Chinese friends had only loathing (for the aboves' actions as seen as being anti-Chinese.)

So, where does this leave the World?

I'm only glad I live in a country where the different parties could protest peacefully...

"free' -

Trust me - the Anamese (a/k/a Vietnamese) DO NOT consider themselves Chinese by any stretch of the imagination.

-S-

26 Killgore Trout  4/25/08 6:26:15 pm reply quote 0

re: #16 zombie

Is it a mistake to give the Uyghurs slack? Are they really the terrorists the Chinese claim they are?


I tend to cut them some slack. It would be interesting to learn more about their version of Islam but none of the usual anti-Jihad writers are very familiar with Uyghur culture. I wonder if someone like Robert Spencer would know something.

27 savage_nation[deleted]  4/25/08 6:26:50 pm 0
28 Killgore Trout  4/25/08 6:27:03 pm reply quote 0

re: #24 NoSubmission

What is interesting about the Muslims in China is that they are the sole Muslims with woman Imams.


I hadn't hear that before. Interesting.

29 UncleSam  4/25/08 6:27:25 pm reply quote 0

Thanks for the report, Zombie.
You're the best!

30 zombie  4/25/08 6:27:53 pm reply quote 0

re: #17 brainwizard73

This is one of those rare times that I can't understand "two sides" to this issue. Red China is a bunch of economic opportunists and militaristic thugs. While I get that there are protests of the torch (a lot of good that is doing...) who the hell do these "pro-china" people think they are? Do they know what type of regime they support.

I originally planned to, but eventually decided not to, speculate as to the identities and motivations of the China supporters.

Most, from my personal observations, were ethnic Chinese who were fairly recent (post-1949) immigrants to the US who still have a HUGE feeling of nationalistic pride in them -- regardless of politics.

And most seemed to be thoroughly indoctrinated in the many lies and absurdities of the Maoist system, even though they fled to America.

This sign sums up my opinion of all that.

31 Dr. Shalit  4/25/08 6:28:29 pm reply quote 0

re: #26 Killgore Trout

"K-T" -

Re: the "Wiggers" - I give China some slack. Wonder why?

-S-

32 rawmuse  4/25/08 6:28:29 pm reply quote 4

We are all very civilized here at LGF, but these demonstrations provide ample evidence that, sadly, they solve nothing. Tibet was not able to defend itself, nor the Plains Indians, nor (fill in the blank with your favorite lost cause). Mao was right, power flows from the barrel of a gun, not from bumper stickers. That is why I support the war efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, the only real way to change anything is with force.

33 Killgore Trout  4/25/08 6:28:43 pm reply quote 0

re: #27 savage_nation

They have been pretty isolated since the Cultural Revolution.

34 Killgore Trout  4/25/08 6:29:22 pm reply quote 0

re: #31 Dr. Shalit

Why?

35 Render  4/25/08 6:29:32 pm reply quote 1

{ZOMBIE!}

WHEW,
R

36 savage_nation[deleted]  4/25/08 6:29:53 pm 0
37 solomonpanting  4/25/08 6:30:39 pm reply quote 1
Was this gender imbalance accidental? Or part of a strategy? Or do Tibetans only give birth to daughters?

Perhaps it's a concerted effort in protest of China's one male child program.

38 Grammy Cracker  4/25/08 6:31:11 pm reply quote 0

Good evening, Lizards! I'm posting via BLackBerry in the dark, power out for almost 4 hours now. DTE projects 11:30 EST for restoration. Poo!

Had to check in & get my LGF fix. Good night, all! Be kind to one another!

39 jcm  4/25/08 6:31:49 pm reply quote 0

re: #38 Grammy Cracker

Good evening, Lizards! I'm posting via BLackBerry in the dark, power out for almost 4 hours now. DTE projects 11:30 EST for restoration. Poo!

Had to check in & get my LGF fix. Good night, all! Be kind to one another!

What a tease Grammy is.....

40 Pvt Bin Jammin  4/25/08 6:32:06 pm reply quote 0

Great job, Zombie!

41 sparrowlake  4/25/08 6:32:09 pm reply quote 0

Good job, zombie.
Thanks.

42 merkava IV  4/25/08 6:32:20 pm reply quote 0

I was at the Paris Olympic protests and I must say that this protest seems much more diverse, and protesters more numerous, however the Paris protests did get violent and I think the French police were a bit more quick to action than the SFPD.

43 brainwizard73  4/25/08 6:33:06 pm reply quote 0

re: #30 zombie

I originally planned to, but eventually decided not to, speculate as to the identities and motivations of the China supporters.

Most, from my personal observations, were ethnic Chinese who were fairly recent (post-1949) immigrants to the US who still have a HUGE feeling of nationalistic pride in them -- regardless of politics.

And most seemed to be thoroughly indoctrinated in the many lies and absurdities of the Maoist system, even though they fled to America.

44 Fenway_Nation  4/25/08 6:33:09 pm reply quote 0

Interesting....with their backs to us, I thought the members of whatever troupe that was at the official ceremony was a gaggle of Code Pinkos

45 lawhawk  4/25/08 6:33:43 pm reply quote 0

re: #12 LoFlyer

You haven't been to Union Square in NYC then have you? Same spiel. Same people (or so it would seem). And same grievance theater.

46 LoFlyer  4/25/08 6:33:56 pm reply quote 0

Gotta bail, thanks for the conversation, keep the faith, Zombie!

47 Killgore Trout  4/25/08 6:34:05 pm reply quote 1

re: #36 savage_nation

IIRC, they were an autonomous region during the cultural revolution and annexed shortly after. They have a lot of very old Buddhist statues (Like the big Bamiyana Buddhas) and lots of ancient mosques because they missed the whole purge and burn era. It's amazing how much of their own culture the Chinese destroyed.

48 Dr. Shalit  4/25/08 6:34:50 pm reply quote 0

re: #34 Killgore Trout

Why?

"K-T"

Simply because the Chinese Authorities are unsure of their loyalty TO CHINA vs. TO ISLAM. The "Wiggers" are generally ethnic HAN Chinese or close to it. Given the experience of Western Europe - can you blame them?

-S-

49 DistantThunder  4/25/08 6:36:03 pm reply quote 0

re: #32 rawmuse

We are all very civilized here at LGF, but these demonstrations provide ample evidence that, sadly, they solve nothing. Tibet was not able to defend itself, nor the Plains Indians, nor (fill in the blank with your favorite lost cause). Mao was right, power flows from the barrel of a gun, not from bumper stickers. That is why I support the war efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, the only real way to change anything is with force.

Except under certain circumstances movements like Ghandi and MLK, did accomplish much good with a minimal amount of violence - but I think it was the implied threat of violence on their part that also played a roll. The ruling societies were also humbled into compliance through public shame.

Too bad slavery couldn't have been resolved that way - maybe it could have been with the right leader - but doubtful.

50 beachkatie  4/25/08 6:37:11 pm reply quote 0

I still love your work Zombie!

51 mikeinmd  4/25/08 6:38:33 pm reply quote 0

Another great report. As Always.

The video capture pic of Mr. Old White Guy with the Another "Black Dude" for a Free Tibet on pg 2 got me. That is funny !

52 snowcrash  4/25/08 6:38:39 pm reply quote 0

re: #26 Killgore Trout
Saw Robt Spencers interview at Hot Air. Had questions but needed to register at Ustream to chat. I hate chat, but registered late anyway. Maybe next time get some questions in re Uyghars and recent GoV postings.

53 Killgore Trout  4/25/08 6:38:46 pm reply quote 0

re: #48 Dr. Shalit

I don't blame them for being paranoid. The Chinese are all so culturally different from each other I have a hard time imagining the country staying together after communism finishes failing. The don't even share a common language. I think it'll be like the break up of the soviet union.

54 Killgore Trout  4/25/08 6:39:13 pm reply quote 0

re: #52 snowcrash

That's a good idea.

55 zombie  4/25/08 6:40:06 pm reply quote 2

This is a short version of what I was going to post re: the China supporters:

The San Francisco Bay Area has one of the largest (if not the largest) population of ethnic Chinese outside of Asia. But the "community" is not cohesive and has many different groups who arrived at different times. The major divisions are these:

The largest group is also the oldest: Chinese who emigrated to the California during the Gold Rush, mainly during the 1850s and 1860s. They were almost entirely Cantonese speakers from southern China -- and some still speak Cantonese exclusively to this day. Nevertheless, they are very integrated into the American system, are very pro-US, and have very little sympathy for or affection for the communist regime.

The next group are pro-US Mandarin speakers who fled China after the 1949 revolution. Comparatively recent arrivals, but still very pro-US.

The final group are Chinese immigrants to the US who arrived here from mainland China post-1972: people who grew up under the Communist regime, speaking Mandarin, but who came here either on academic visas, of other legitimate reasons, or who snuck in illegally in cargo containers and so forth.

It is from this last category that I believe most of the pro-China protesters were drawn. Even though they were attracted to the money-making opportunities of the US, they still feel strongly that they are Chinese first, and their nationalistic fervor is extremely strong. They also still believe all the indoctrination they received back in China: Tibetans are primitive half-humans; Taiwan is a breakaway Chinese province; China is the supreme culture of the world and always has been, etc.

56 zombie  4/25/08 6:41:19 pm reply quote 0

re: #43 brainwizard73

See my comment #55.

57 Dr. Shalit  4/25/08 6:42:53 pm reply quote 0

re: #49 DistantThunder

"D-T"

Beyond humbled, the more or less civilized communities of the US and UK were SHAMED into change by their own ideologies - as were the Israelis in 1993, recognizing the possibility of a "second zionism" in the land. The basis of racism is belied by the reality that no person can choose their parents. As to politics and religion, that is another matter. One potentially of "Free Choice."

-S-

58 zombie  4/25/08 6:43:51 pm reply quote 0

re: #51 mikeinmd

Another great report. As Always.

The video capture pic of Mr. Old White Guy with the Another "Black Dude" for a Free Tibet on pg 2 got me. That is funny !

I'm still kicking myself that I didn't get a clear picture of him. I accidentally pressed the "video" button when I took that image, and never got a decent photo of what would have been a classic for the ages!

59 SeafoodGumbo  4/25/08 6:44:19 pm reply quote 0

zombie

I'm looking through some of your old reports for mentions of China, and came across this interesting passage of yours:

As the presence of the statue implies, the majority of Chinatown residents -- being Cantonese speakers descended from 19th-century immigrants -- have little sympathy for the Mandarin-speaking centralized one-party Beijing government currently controlling mainland China. It is Double Ten Day -- commemorating the October 10th, 1911 uprising that led to the founding of the Republic of China, now considered Taiwan Independence Day -- that is celebrated in Chinatown, not the independence day of the People's Republic.

So when the organizers of San Francisco's Chinese New Year Parade recently banned the Falun Gong float from the parade, the accusations started to fly. And an uncomfortable little secret was finally brought to light: the San Francisco Chinese Chamber of Commerce receives funding -- and political dictates -- from the communist government in Beijing.

60 MacGregor  4/25/08 6:45:09 pm reply quote 0

Excellent work Zombie! Thank you so much for your candidness and thoroughness.

Oh and...

G'd evenin' lizards! Happy weekend to all.

61 J.S.  4/25/08 6:45:19 pm reply quote 0

re: #27 savage_nation

There was a Canadian (born in China) Muslim (Mr.
Celil) who was an Uyghur. He went back to asia, start "inciting" (was he a radical Islamists preachin' against the Chinese authorities? don't know). anywho, he was arrested and is now in jail in China on charges of "terrorism." I think the Uyghurs are somewhat more isolated than other Muslim groups -- perhaps not as infected with radical strains of Islam as are some other groups (?) -- but, I think Islamism may also reach them eventually...(there have been reports of uprisings -- the Chinese rape the women, and do other things, it's claimed -- get stories of brutal Chinese crack-downs...the Communists don't like Muslim ethnic groups -- want to have them wiped out/blended into Chinese society...yet, don't really know sometimes who's telling the truth...)

So, you spilling the beans on how you got the YouTube video to upload?

62 Dr. Shalit  4/25/08 6:45:54 pm reply quote 0

re: #53 Killgore Trout

I don't blame them for being paranoid. The Chinese are all so culturally different from each other I have a hard time imagining the country staying together after communism finishes failing. The don't even share a common language. I think it'll be like the break up of the soviet union.

"K-T" -

At worst in your posit, China becomes an Asian Europe. Could well be a result the world can easlly live with.

-S-

63 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  4/25/08 6:48:04 pm reply quote 0

Putting my 2 cents in.

The world never, ever changes. Humanity is always static. Oh, the times may change,but we are, always the same.

Humanity will always yearn for freedom.

It is part of our makeup. It is inbred. It is natural.

There will always be those who think that life and circumstances are unfair. There will always be those who reach for, and dream of utopia. Even if there is no such thing. For one cannot stomp down the animal in us all. The animal that yearns for freedom.

I cannot disagree wit the protestors, although I think that the Games aren't the platform to air ones grieveances on... but then I've never been desperate. I feel pity and anger toward those that seek to stomp freedom beneath their boots. Yet, I also know that this is merely human nature; nust as the yearning to be free is also human nature.

It is a long, unending path. A never ending struggle, this yearning for perfection; this desire to be Adam again.

Those of us who believe, believe that the yearning will be extinguished with the comming of the Savior again. There are those of us who believe that this is a never ending path.

Yet all paths have an ending.

I do not despair of current events. Life will go on beyond us.

I do, however, believe that right will triumph over wrong. Oh, beliefs willchange and humanity will be in uproar, but in the end right always wins.

64 zombie  4/25/08 6:48:09 pm reply quote 0

re: #59 SeafoodGumbo

Yes, all of what I wrote back then remains true.

But I decided to not focus on that detail, as it might have bogged down the report and distracted from the focus on the Olympic Torch itself.

65 DistantThunder  4/25/08 6:48:58 pm reply quote 0

I forgot to mention my very personal Nazi connection:

One evening standing with my husband in front of the Presidio in San Francisco waiting for a viewing of the Clio awards in advertising, we chatted with an elderly couple from Connecticut. He was a retired economics professor from the University of Connecticut - and then he says to us: "I shook the hand of Adolph Hilter."

Now as a teenager, I read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich - out of curiosity. So I had to hear this story. He had been a Rhodes Scholar at Cambridge, and over a break in 1933 went to Germany with his friend. They wanted to hear Hitler speak, so they went to a speech he was giving in an auditorium. During the speech, several body guards approached them and said that Hitler had seen them from the stage and wanted to meet them. They looked at each other, and he said: "We were a little worried, but we said of course." After the speech, they waited and Hitler came over to them with a group of body guards and spoke with them. They used a translator. He wanted to know what the British people and papers were saying about him. So they gave him the best glossy version, not wanting to offend him. He invited them to come back and see him again - and then Adolph Hitler shook hands with each one. I was awestruck. He continued, and his voice broke a bit, "If I had known then what I know now, I would have shot him on the spot."

Can you imagine having that image with you almost your whole life? The experience of meeting Adolph Hitler?

That makes me two degrees of separation from Adoph Hitler.

66 SeafoodGumbo  4/25/08 6:49:32 pm reply quote 0

Check out this previous report of zombie's on Li Zhensheng.

Li Zhensheng, I discovered, could be considered the original "zombie," a subversive citizen journalist who did essentially what I do now but forty years earlier and in much more dangerous circumstances. Li was a young reporter for a small newspaper in northern China when the Cultural Revolution broke out in 1966, and he found himself assigned to photograph the soul-wrenching events as they unfolded. At the time, Li was a follower of Mao and considered himself sympathetic to the stated goals of the Cultural Revolution -- but with each passing day a sense of unease grew in him as he witnessed the dissolution of Chinese society. Risking his career and possibly his life, he began to squirrel away the most disturbing and shocking of his negatives, eventually developing a huge archive of forbidden images.
67 mikeinmd  4/25/08 6:50:16 pm reply quote 0

re: #58 zombie

I'm still kicking myself that I didn't get a clear picture of him. I accidentally pressed the "video" button when I took that image, and never got a decent photo of what would have been IS a classic for the ages!

It may be a bit grainy, but I'm keeping it forever, LOL.

68 Dr. Shalit  4/25/08 6:51:43 pm reply quote 0

re: #65 DistantThunder

"D-T" -

I shook the hand of former President James Earl Carter. 'Nuff said.

-S-

69 zombie  4/25/08 6:52:30 pm reply quote 1

re: #65 DistantThunder

Can you imagine having that image with you almost your whole life? The experience of meeting Adolph Hitler?

I shook Obama's hand about five seconds after taking this picture.

I'm hoping that one day I don't have the same feelings that British guy had.

70 brainwizard73  4/25/08 6:52:32 pm reply quote 0

re: #56 zombie

Sounds like a functional theory to me.

Interesting dichotomy, though, between economic opportunity and political orthodoxy.

71 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  4/25/08 6:53:13 pm reply quote 2

re: #65 DistantThunder

I forgot to mention my very personal Nazi connection:

One evening standing with my husband in front of the Presidio in San Francisco waiting for a viewing of the Clio awards in advertising, we chatted with an elderly couple from Connecticut. He was a retired economics professor from the University of Connecticut - and then he says to us: "I shook the hand of Adolph Hilter."

Now as a teenager, I read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich - out of curiosity. So I had to hear this story. He had been a Rhodes Scholar at Cambridge, and over a break in 1933 went to Germany with his friend. They wanted to hear Hitler speak, so they went to a speech he was giving in an auditorium. During the speech, several body guards approached them and said that Hitler had seen them from the stage and wanted to meet them. They looked at each other, and he said: "We were a little worried, but we said of course." After the speech, they waited and Hitler came over to them with a group of body guards and spoke with them. They used a translator. He wanted to know what the British people and papers were saying about him. So they gave him the best glossy version, not wanting to offend him. He invited them to come back and see him again - and then Adolph Hitler shook hands with each one. I was awestruck. He continued, and his voice broke a bit, "If I had known then what I know now, I would have shot him on the spot."

Can you imagine having that image with you almost your whole life? The experience of meeting Adolph Hitler?

That makes me two degrees of separation from Adoph Hitler.

~shiver~
I cannot comprehend the evil...one of my partners..his mother survived the concentration camps. She goes around to schools and talks about her life there. SHe has shown me the brand the put on her. I admire her so. She is a dear, sweet woman who hates no one. I cannot imagine living through what she went through.

I admire and love her so.

72 Intrepid  4/25/08 6:54:14 pm reply quote 0

re: #16 zombie

Note how in the sign depicted above, and in the report itself, the Uyghurs -- who use an Islamic crescent on a blue field as their flag -- are on the "good guys" side of folks protesting against the Communist regime.

This was the one controversial aspect of my original report: Favoring the political aspirations of a Muslim group over their communist oppressors!

Shades of the Taliban vs. the Russians in Afghanistan?

Is it a mistake to give the Uyghurs slack? Are they really the terrorists the Chinese claim they are?

Agghh! The real world is a difficult place!

Nah, give 'em slack. From what I know of the Uyghurs, they are very much "secular" muslims, if that is even possible. More related to the "stans" than China. The biggest issue for them is the discrimination they face from the Han Chinese, or the main people group of China.

The racism that exists in Asia is way more than what we face here - the darker you are in Asia, the more you are looked down upon. Learned that in Thailand, where road workers would wear ski hats and long sleeve shirts in order to not get any darker when shoveling asphalt in 100 degree weather with 80 percent humidity.

China revels in being the "central country", as its chinese characters denote it. Everything in Asia points back to them, they think.

73 zombie  4/25/08 6:54:40 pm reply quote 0
#66 SeafoodGumbo
Check out this previous report of zombie's on Li Zhensheng.

Wow -- I totally forgot ever writing those words! Thanks for jogging my memory.

74 brainwizard73  4/25/08 6:54:52 pm reply quote 0

re: #69 zombie

You won't have those feelings becuase, if Obama were that evil, you would be dead or in a concentration camp for "re-education".

75 rawmuse  4/25/08 6:54:56 pm reply quote 0

I have homeopathic Chinese healer (reflexology) that I use. She is a refugee from the Cultural revolution period, she is about 62 years of age, but has the radiant beauty of a much younger woman. She despises the Communists. She has been in the US since about 1971, but she lived in Hong Kong for a bit. She has been working on me for about 6 years. The heartbreaking stories I have heard in that time, if half of them are true, it is a terrible legacy.

76 DistantThunder  4/25/08 6:55:29 pm reply quote 0

Here he is pointing to the armband he wore as a "red-color news soldier" (a euphemism for "politically correct journalist") which gave him unprecedented access to some of the darker moments of the Cultural Revolution.

77 DistantThunder  4/25/08 7:00:05 pm reply quote 0

April National Geographic is entirely dedicated to China. Amy Tan wrote an amazing piece about a rural village which you can read on line.

Village on the Edge of Time

A remarkable, inspiring story about a resilient people. The photography is quite moving.

78 brainwizard73  4/25/08 7:00:22 pm reply quote 0

Beuller?

Beuller?

Beuller?

79 Intrepid  4/25/08 7:01:12 pm reply quote 0

re: #36 savage_nation

I see. Maybe they were too far removed from the Maoist troops

Weren't they a part of China before the Long March?

(trep runs off to find historical info....)

80 Spiny Norman  4/25/08 7:01:21 pm reply quote 0

re: #16 zombie

Note how in the sign depicted above, and in the report itself, the Uyghurs -- who use an Islamic crescent on a blue field as their flag -- are on the "good guys" side of folks protesting against the Communist regime.

This was the one controversial aspect of my original report: Favoring the political aspirations of a Muslim group over their communist oppressors!

Shades of the Taliban vs. the Russians in Afghanistan?

Is it a mistake to give the Uyghurs slack? Are they really the terrorists the Chinese claim they are?

Agghh! The real world is a difficult place!

Ahmed Shah Massoud and what eventually became the Nothern Alliance against the Soviets, maybe, but not the Taliban: they bravely sat out the war in Pakistani refugee camps. A lot like what Mao and the Chinese Communists did during the 1937-1945 unpleasantness...

81 savage_nation[deleted]  4/25/08 7:02:10 pm 0
82 Dr. Shalit  4/25/08 7:02:52 pm reply quote 0

re: #72 Intrepid

"'trep"

You are right about the racism of asia. Generous Japanese look at Koreans as their "Country Cousins." That said, China IS the "Center Kingdom" of Asia, for better or worse.

-S-

83 savage_nation[deleted]  4/25/08 7:02:57 pm 0
84 J.S.  4/25/08 7:05:43 pm reply quote 0

re: #81 savage_nation

Ah! I see. Thank you savage_nation for that link!

85 savage_nation[deleted]  4/25/08 7:08:12 pm 0
86 Intrepid  4/25/08 7:10:48 pm reply quote 1

re: #82 Dr. Shalit

"'trep"

You are right about the racism of asia. Generous Japanese look at Koreans as their "Country Cousins." That said, China IS the "Center Kingdom" of Asia, for better or worse.

-S-

Yes sir, I've seen it and lived it. It was eye-opening to me, living in poor Thailand, that the "Chinese" Thais look down upon the "Thai" Thais. And the "Thai" Thais look down upon the "Issan" (northeastern) Thais, and the "Issan" Thais look down upon the Laotians and Khmers, etc......

And everyone in Thailand looks down upon Indians.

It apparently is in human nature to find someone we perceive to be inferior to ourselves so that we might look down upon them, in order to make ourselves feel superior.

A stark contrast to Jesus from Nazareth.

87 Dr. Shalit  4/25/08 7:19:14 pm reply quote 0

re: #86 Intrepid

"''trep"

As long as we are going down this line, think we can agree that "The Carpenter from Ha-Galil" got it right.

-S-

88 Palandine  4/25/08 7:29:31 pm reply quote 0

Seeing all those Red Chinese flags on the streets of an American city "gives me an uncomfortableness," to paraphrase Jayne Cobb.

/The Hero of Canton

89 Ledger1  4/25/08 7:30:35 pm reply quote 0

re: #8 zombie

Two hat tips, actually, one for each video!

Thanks!

Also thanks to rawmuse, who tried (and like me, failed) to post the same videos, which YouTube rejected at first. Only savage_nation could get them to work!

Great work Zombie. Those pictures are very interesting.

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90 Globular Cluster  4/25/08 7:31:08 pm reply quote 0

Kudos zombie. I think this is your most complete report ever. Took 10 minutes just to get through the first part.

91 Intrepid  4/25/08 7:34:58 pm reply quote 0

re: #87 Dr. Shalit

"''trep"

As long as we are going down this line, think we can agree that "The Carpenter from Ha-Galil" got it right.

-S-

Don't know what "Ha-Galil" means. I'm talking about the one from Galilee, about 2000 years ago.

Which one are you thinking of?

92 paxnhymn  4/25/08 7:38:51 pm reply quote 0

re: #91 Intrepid

Don't know what "Ha-Galil" means. I'm talking about the one from Galilee, about 2000 years ago.

Which one are you thinking of?

same-same. Ha-galil is the northern Galilee area...

93 Intrepid  4/25/08 7:40:12 pm reply quote 0

re: #92 paxnhymn

same-same. Ha-galil is the northern Galilee area...

So I show my ignorance, yet once again. But I'll admit ignorance, which is the first step of learning!

Thank you.

94 paxnhymn  4/25/08 7:42:10 pm reply quote 0

re: #93 Intrepid

So I show my ignorance, yet once again. But I'll admit ignorance, which is the first step of learning!

Thank you.

no problem..it's my love of the Jews...and one especially...that drives me to learn. Mrs. Pax is more evangelical than I am, but she'll tell you she's too scared to go to Israel, otherwise I'd have already made a trip.

95 ContraJihadi  4/25/08 7:44:49 pm reply quote 0

Superior work, Zombie, showing more dedication (and runner's sweat) than so-called professionals.

96 SeafoodGumbo  4/25/08 7:45:48 pm reply quote 0

re: #73 zombie

Wow -- I totally forgot ever writing those words! Thanks for jogging my memory.

You've documented so many protests, events, sit-ins, and hanging-naked-in-tree-gatherings, it isn't surprising it's hard to remember them all. ;)

97 Maximu§  4/25/08 7:51:07 pm reply quote 1

Where the Hell do these people find the time to protest on the streets like this? I had to bust my ass all weekend to make a Monday deadline...

98 paxnhymn  4/25/08 7:55:20 pm reply quote 1

re: #97 Maximu§

Where the Hell do these people find the time to protest on the streets like this? I had to bust my ass all weekend to make a Monday deadline...

I would bet a paycheck that if a survey was done, over 75% of those at the protests (most any) would be liberal...they mostly don't have real jobs.

99 Intrepid  4/25/08 7:56:03 pm reply quote 1

re: #94 paxnhymn

no problem..it's my love of the Jews...and one especially...that drives me to learn. Mrs. Pax is more evangelical than I am, but she'll tell you she's too scared to go to Israel, otherwise I'd have already made a trip.

So many Jews enthrall me - Moses, David, Isaiah (also Jeremiah, but he also depressed me), Elijah, Daniel (don't remember his Hebrew name), Judas Maccabeus, Jesus, John the Apostle, David Ben Gurion, Golda Meir.

All of them received strength and wisdom from the Almighty.

One, I believe was the almighty. In a human suit.

Yet it does not deter me from loving the others.

100 paxnhymn  4/25/08 7:56:56 pm reply quote 0

re: #99 Intrepid

So many Jews enthrall me - Moses, David, Isaiah (also Jeremiah, but he also depressed me), Elijah, Daniel (don't remember his Hebrew name), Judas Maccabeus, Jesus, John the Apostle, David Ben Gurion, Golda Meir.

All of them received strength and wisdom from the Almighty.

One, I believe was the almighty. In a human suit.

Yet it does not deter me from loving the others.


good on you. amen. amen.

101 paxnhymn  4/25/08 7:58:45 pm reply quote 0

nite all.

102 profitsbeard  4/25/08 8:00:37 pm reply quote 0

Speaking of "Democratic Taiwan".... what ever happened to the Formosans?

103 Intrepid  4/25/08 8:05:10 pm reply quote 0

re: #102 profitsbeard

Speaking of "Democratic Taiwan".... what ever happened to the Formosans?

They are considered as "indigenous people" in Taiwan. When the Han Chinese came over in the late 40's, the ethnic Formosans were pretty much relegated to second class citizens.

There are quite a few tribal people groups there. There are fewer than 500 thousand. The Han Chinese pretty much took over the place and made it theirs.

104 Macker  4/25/08 8:23:51 pm reply quote 0

re: #68 Dr. Shalit

re: #69 zombie

And obviously, you survived. So did I back in 5th grade!

105 Ward Cleaver  4/25/08 8:32:48 pm reply quote 0

Wow, Zombie. Excellent work as always. I've gotten about halfway through the photos, and I need to watch the videos.

Yes, the hypocrisy of the Chinese is stunning. Living here in the US, but pimping their evil empire back home. If I'd been there, I'd have been shouting, "F-ckin' Commies, go home!"

106 norar  4/25/08 9:11:38 pm reply quote 0

re: #16 zombie

This was the one controversial aspect of my original report: Favoring the political aspirations of a Muslim group over their communist oppressors!

Shades of the Taliban vs. the Russians in Afghanistan?

I don't see the controversy here. It's an established fact that Islamist groups favour democaracy all the time they aren't in power. After democratcy helps the Islamaniacs to the power, mainly with the help of Saudi/Iranian sposored "charity", democracy (and the bulk of human rights and civil liberties issues, the Islamaniacs are famously in favour of, all the time they don't have power to sabotage them) is cynically discarded.

107 zombie  4/25/08 9:33:27 pm reply quote 0

re: #104 Macker

re: #69 zombie

And obviously, you survived. So did I back in 5th grade!

Wow! Haile Selassie! That's got us all beat by a mile. I'm impress.

What in the world were you doing living in Ethiopia as a kid?

108 Spiny Norman  4/25/08 9:41:02 pm reply quote 0

Finally got time to read it all... Excellent report, zombie!

Yeah, I bet it was weird finding yourself on the same side of people you find otherwise loathesome.

109 Spiny Norman  4/25/08 9:43:01 pm reply quote 2

By the way, I'm wondering when "going code pink" would become slang for being an over-the-top attention whore.

110 stevieray  4/25/08 9:48:27 pm reply quote 0