Here we go again.

And away we go!

I ain't touchin' this one.

Hang on! It's going be a bumpy ride!

Not going to touch this with a ten foot pole.

Charles, how about a new thread? :)

Are the Darwinists responsible for the chicken holocaust too. Oh, the humanity!

Offers Cattt a fifteen foot pole.

Hey that sure was a great game yesterday huh?

Charles,

Can we have an open thread for those not wishing to participate in another Ben Stein marathon slugfest?

Why's everybody so nervous?

re: #8 NR Pax

Offers Cattt a fifteen foot pole.

No thanks, but I'll accept a six foot Pole, if he's cute.

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Are the Darwinists responsible for the chicken holocaust too. Oh, the humanity!

The Colonel is.

Hums to self.

We have some chickens here. C'mon guys, it's all in good fun. Don't take it so seriously.

re: #11 Charles

Why's everybody so nervous?

As cat in room full of rocking chairs.

re: #11 Charles

Why's everybody so nervous?

/what could possibly go wrong?

Hi everybody.....I'm staying out of this one!

It's a beautiful day in CA. The fires are almost contained.

La-de-da....

re: #13 jcm

The Colonel is.

The Military Industrial Complex!

Banquet makes a good chicken dinner for the money.

Bye Bye! I had enough of this last week!

Skipping this thread. Just another way Stan is whispering to one group that the other is insulting them. Stan likes division between God's children.

I got me meat hooks, and I got me cleavers.

Let's get ready to rumble!

Thread Boycott? The Lizards are revolting!

re: #19 Killgore Trout

The Military Industrial Complex!

I gotta buy stock in them, but my conspiracy clearances are cleared for that compartment yet.

re: #23 BulgarWheat

I got me meat hooks, and I got me cleavers.

Let's get ready to rumble!

I'm naked under my clothes.

Once Burned Twice Shy

Which came first, chicken or the egg?uuuummmmm?

/but there has to some way to explain evil, other than gods

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Thread Boycott? The Lizards are revolting!

They certainly are!

/

re: #17 VegasRick

/what could possibly go wrong?

Well it's like playing with matches and gasoline, not good.

re: #26 VegasRick

I'm going to have to leave you alone then.

It's just no fun that way.

$1.59, and you get a piece of chicken, potatoes, and corn.

OT Albert Hoffman..dead?

anyone else hear about this?

re: #24 Killgore Trout

I agree completely with the ADL on this one.
(I'm still revolting)

/by the way, congratulations on being temporarily cello-rich!

New thread plz, Charles?

Yep.

Sorry...not going here.

For those who aren't chicken.....
A Blood Libel on Our Civilization

The “intelligent design” hoax is not merely non-science, nor even merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. It is an appeal to barbarism, to the sensibilities of those Apaches, made by people who lack the imaginative power to know the horrors of true barbarism. (A thing that cannot be said of Darwin. See Chapter X of Voyage of the Beagle.)

And yes: When our greatest achievements are blamed for our greatest moral failures, that is a blood libel against Western civilization itself. What next, Ben? Johann Sebastian Bach ran a slave-trading enterprise on the side?
....
For shame, Ben Stein, for shame. Stand up for your civilization, man! and all its glories. The barbarians are at the gate, as they always have been. Come man the defenses with us, leaving the liars and fools to their lies and folly.

Not going to touch this with my ten-inch pole.

re: #34 hayseed

OT Albert Hoffman..dead?

anyone else hear about this?

Yep saw that on Hightimes.

Oh shit, did I type that out loud?

I'll wait until I see the movie, which I still need to do. Meanwhile, trying to voice a critical opinion about the ADL is something that I would never do, nothing good could possibly come of it.

re: #35 jaunte

Thanks.

haven't we been here and done this?
sort of. . . anyway?

re: #34 hayseed

OT Albert Hoffman..dead?

anyone else hear about this?

What drug did he invent?

I agree with the ADL on this one, and have to get back to work.

re: #20 Catttt

Banquet makes a good chicken dinner for the money.

A box of Banquet Fried Chicken, some homemade mashed taters and green beans, a few frozen buttermilk biscuits - always a hit.

re: #40 haakondahl

Not going to touch this with my ten-inch pole.

not going to touch that w/ a 10 ft. pole

re: #43 Killgore Trout

How much work (weeks/months) do you have to get them in shape?

Another thread had a comment by Gordon Maroc that had more than 50 updings. Is there an award for that? What is the current record for updings?

How about them Red Sox.

re: #45 VegasRick

DSL

re: #37 song_and_dance_man

Because the last thread on this almost led to the end of longtime friendships here.

I'm not afraid to touch this.

I will grant that the movie misappropriated the theories of Darwin to the policies of Hitler, still, the thinking that survival of the fittest is a factor that drives evolution cannot be lost on those who might think that if another cannot survive over the will of another then their demise is part of the evolutionary process.

The only problem with that is the "theory of evolution" does not predict behavior of sentient beings. In effect your fear is a non starter. It's irrelevant in this context.

Kiss and make up.

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Blood libel of our civilization?

I think your reaching there a bit.

Frickin' heathen

/sarc, but not so much.

Couldn't agree more Charles. Hitler was a madman, plain and simple. Borne of the madness that was WW1.

/jmho

re: #52 hayseed

DSL

What is DSL?

It rained here last night.

re: #56 VegasRick

whooops LSD

Beautiful day in the Dallas- Fort Worth area. Seasonal allergies in full swing. Zyrtec or Claritin?

re: #58 song_and_dance_man

Wasn't that LDS?

I thought it was LSD?

re: #57 Catttt

It rained here last night.

it rained here this morning.

re: #51 BBev

How about them Red Sox.

0-0, end of the 4th.

Sunny here today.

re: #37 song_and_dance_man

.....that if another cannot survive over the will of another then their demise is part of the evolutionary process.

But that didn't start with Darwin and evolutionary science. Cultures have been trying to kill each other since the dawn of man. Also when was the last time you saw something on Stormfront about Darwinism? They have several sections on religious topics but none for evolutionary science. They are not influenced or inspired by Darwinism.

re: #47 Intrepid

A box of Banquet Fried Chicken, some homemade mashed taters and green beans, a few frozen buttermilk biscuits - always a hit.

I know how to do homemade, but I don't.

re: #59 hayseed

whooops LSD

I never tried that. I tried LOTS of other things but never that.

re: #56 VegasRick

What is DSL?

Doesn't the American league have that rule, but the not the National league?

and we might get a frost tonight because it cleared up.

re: #11 Charles

Why's everybody so nervous?

I'm not the least bit nervous. Ben Stein should stick to financial commentary and selling eye wash. He is totally out of his league here.

Rainy for two days, until today, and cold. My cats blamed me, of course.

BBL ....son has home work

re: #63 song_and_dance_man

What the heck are you talking about? I have no fear.

Sorry. I knew that.

Kiss and make up?

re: #50 snowcrash

Another thread had a comment by Gordon Maroc that had more than 50 updings. Is there an award for that? What is the current record for updings?

Actually, the system is going to evolve soon, to include a top-rated comments feature...

re: #28 beachkatie

Which came first, chicken or the egg?uuuummmmm?

The egg. I had it for breakfast and now the chicken is in the oven for dinner.

re: #57 Catttt

It rained here last night.

We have had 4" the last 2 days

re: #49 jaunte

It'll be years before I even start work on them, I have a lot of projects ahead of them. Each one should take about 6 months to complete once I get started.

I had waffles for lunch, and for supper I'm making pizza.

To a musician:

LSD = Lead Singer's Disease (ie - David Lee Roth)

Been accused of havin' it, but carried my share of bass bins and blue tubs...so it didn't stick.

re: #69 Intrepid

Doesn't the American league have that rule, but the not the National league?

The designated snake leader, I think.

Misappropriating the holocaust? Seems like a pretty cheesy way to take pot shots at ID.

Surely no intelligent person denies some of Hitler's motivation was based on eugenics?

i made potato soup today.

Stinky Beaumont said it best:

I don't know about intelligent design... but I believe in stupid design.

re: #77 song_and_dance_man

I thought Hayseed was referring to Star Trek The Voyage Home where Capt Kirk tells the marine biologist that Spock took LDS in the past.

Nevermind.

As in, multiple wives?

Everyone knows where I stand on this, and I'm ready willing and able to have it out with any Discovery institute pimps who care to show up. The holocaust thing was well beyond the pail, and Ben Stein should be ashamed.

This is as dishonest as Newt sitting on a couch with Pelosi because he's into pimping coal or biodiesel.

re: #66 Killgore Trout

Murderers "have always and forever been able to fill in this blank:

....that if another cannot survive over the will of another then their demise is part of the ----------------------------."

..with whatever was handy.

Wasnt the issue about the Nazis the establishment of the MASTER RACE? I am completely with Ben Stein on this one. Without the THEORY OF EVOLUTION the entire MASTER RACE idea rubbish. The German Nazis used the THEORY OF EVOLUTION to prove that the Jewish people were an UNFIT people to live in this world. I do NOT agree with ADL on this one...

re: #54 BulgarWheat

I agree the article was a bit over dramatic, but people get passionate about the topic.

re: #75 Charles

Actually, the system is going to evolve soon, to include a top-rated comments feature...

Charles............ you are gonna get us started again.

re: #67 Catttt

I know how to do homemade, but I don't.

Mom used to do that when there were more of us at home. It was the only "commercial" fried chicken my dad would eat.

But $1.59 is cheap for a complete meal, that's for sure.

It rained so much last night, the puppy wouldn't go out. I encouraged her greatly.

OK now what's wrong with reductionism?

The universe is a complex place (and really, really large, too), our best theories are just as good as they are, but we use them to get along. OK?

Yes, I too agree with the ADL statement, though it also sets my teeth a little on edge the way they say it, and I think Stein was at least very foolish to make the film as he did, judging (only) from the web site.

Anyone want to talk about shoes?

re: #83 Whammo

Misappropriating the holocaust? Seems like a pretty cheesy way to take pot shots at ID.

Surely no intelligent person denies some of Hitler's motivation was based on eugenics?

Eugenics isn't evolution anymore than breeding dogs is.

Well, I'm certainly not going to comment on this one. My ears were burning for days after the last evo thread. Yikes.

i think i'll make some cheese bisquits.

What's the topic?

Walter in Golden, Co.

re: #76 Eyes of Blue

The egg. I had it for breakfast and now the chicken is in the oven for dinner.

heh

re: #91 VegasRick

Charles............ you are gonna get us started again.

ROTFLMAO

re: #80 Alouette

I had waffles for lunch, and for supper I'm making pizza.

I had pizza for lunch.

re: #85 Charles

Stinky Beaumont said it best:

Stupid is as stupid does

re: #79 Killgore Trout

That's impressive, but with what you probably paid for them, not surprising.
I got curious and read a bit about the 'varnish of Cremona' the other day.

I had Chinese for lunch, but passed on the soup. My cookie said to linger over dinner.

re: #92 Intrepid

Mom used to do that when there were more of us at home. It was the only "commercial" fried chicken my dad would eat.

But $1.59 is cheap for a complete meal, that's for sure.

I think their chicken dinners are their best ones. The salisbury steak is ok, but not as good as the chicken.

This thread can flush out the new hatching's to find out if they are lizard worthy
And get a few old timers hit with the BIG STICK

re: #95 goddessoftheclassroom

Anyone want to talk about shoes?

how abt. the new purse i'm going to get. grass green (coach)
i love green pocket books. they are so cheerful in the spring.

After Forever

And I'm outta here...

BLACK
SABBATH,
R

re: #105 Silhouette

I had Chinese for lunch, but passed on the soup. My cookie said to linger over dinner.

In bed.

:)

Always add "in bed" to your fortunes.

re: #95 goddessoftheclassroom

Anyone want to talk about shoes?

Imelda!

re: #104 jaunte

I got curious and read a bit about the 'varnish of Cremona' the other day.

If you think the ID/Evolution debate is full off crackpots and zealots you should watch luthiers debate varnish.

I think Ben Stein is a genius for getting so many people to begin to think critically again.
I remember when LOGIC was a required class for graduation.
Charles is right, but I have to wonder if Ben put the Holocaust in his movie as a way to illustrate the fallacy of the hasty generalization.
After all, hasty generalization is one of the most common fallacies in evolutionary pr releases.....why else do so many of them need to be totally repudiated so often?

re: #109 nyc redneck

how abt. the new purse i'm going to get. grass green (coach)
i love green pocket books. they are so cheerful in the spring.

Coach is too expensive. I'm a cheapskate. I buy Target brand.

re: #98 nyc redneck

i think i'll make some cheese bisquits.

They'd go great with Potato soup.

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Thread Boycott? The Lizards are revolting!

Oh, you're not that bad Killgore.

re: #90 Killgore Trout

KT, yeah,...may get deep in blood here tonight. I think Jefferson said something about the trees needing to get watered. Was Noch!

Gotta make some suppa for the hungry wheats.

what eva!

Jimmy Carter says it didn't happen
Why is this even a thread ?

/sarc

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Ha!

re: #113 Killgore Trout

If you think the ID/Evolution debate is full off crackpots and zealots you should watch luthiers debate varnish.

When did the luthiers debate vanish?

Walter in Golden, Co.

re: #115 Catttt

Coach is too expensive. I'm a cheapskate. I buy Target brand.

I get mine through spam, even cheaper.

I might be able to buy into the idea of Intelligent But Seriously Disturbed Design. Maybe.

re: #96 Naso Tang

Eugenics isn't evolution anymore than breeding dogs is.

Eugenics is Evolution's chickens coming home to roost.

re: #83 Whammo

Misappropriating the holocaust? Seems like a pretty cheesy way to take pot shots at ID.

Surely no intelligent person denies some of Hitler's motivation was based on eugenics?

No, some of Hitler's rationalization of his paranoia was based on eugenics. And at any rate, while loathsome eugenics may draw support from legitimate science (just as the bunk of astrology does), evolutionary theory itself has nothing to do with eugenics. Doesn't lead to it, doesn't support it, unless you are a paranoid. In which case we are no longer talking about science.

re: #109 nyc redneck

how abt. the new purse i'm going to get. grass green (coach)
i love green pocket books. they are so cheerful in the spring.

Ooooo, I LOVE Coach purses! I also love Bermuda bags--I take quiet pride in my collection of covers even though they can be a pain to unbutton.

re: #89 muman

Wasnt the issue about the Nazis the establishment of the MASTER RACE? I am completely with Ben Stein on this one. Without the THEORY OF EVOLUTION the entire MASTER RACE idea rubbish. The German Nazis used the THEORY OF EVOLUTION to prove that the Jewish people were an UNFIT people to live in this world. I do NOT agree with ADL on this one...

Tyrants always twist science to their ends. Look at Dinnerjacket, look at Lysenkoism. Should we tar Einstein because Dinnerjacket is hot on building a nuclear weapon?
That's essentially what you are saying. It's the old Frankenstein argument put forth by stasists since we first discovered fire - there are some things we aren't meant to know. If Darwin had not discovered somethings about evolution, guess what? Someone else would have. It's science, it's the future, and it's going to happen.

and it’s a form of Holocaust trivialization—similar to PETA’s “chicken holocaust” advertisements.

Good analogy! As I recall, "The Holocaust on your Plate campaign" came before the chicken one. In that one, they posted pictures of concentration camp victims to somehow equate the mass murder, starvation and torture of people to the killing of animals for food. Elie Weisel, in fact, was depicted in the photo they posted and when asked to remove it, PETA refused.

I'd also like to point out that connecting theories of evolution with the Holocaust doesn't actually prove either a) that those theories are false or b) that creationism is true. Creationism is pretty weak on evidence and strong on spurious connections.

Nazis aren't the logical end result of evolutionary theory any more than Niels Bohr is responsible for Nagasaki.

re: #90 Killgore Trout

I agree the article was a bit over dramatic, but people get passionate about the topic.

Ok Kil, I'm yer huckleberry. You know i'm evangelical (though unorthodox) and I've read some of the intelligent design arguments, and quite frankly some may be a bit whack...BUT....I'm intrigued by the challenge to the validity of carbon dating itself. The argument is that there is actually no way to verify carbon dating, except more carbon dating, so all of our preconceived timelines may be incorrect.....does seem a valid argument.

re: #83 Whammo

Misappropriating the holocaust? Seems like a pretty cheesy way to take pot shots at ID.

Surely no intelligent person denies some of Hitler's motivation was based on eugenics?

Finally, a post I can give a +1 to! And I did. Well said.

re: #106 song_and_dance_man

Are you suggesting that evolution only really began once Darwin 'discovered' it?

Not at all. I'm just saying that long before the discovery of evolution cultures have been dominating and killings others. The introduction on evolutionary science didn't have any affect on this practice.

Charles,
I'm not pushing any theory, I haven't researched it enough myself, but Google 'Hitler Darwinism'. There are a LOT of scholarly works on the topic. The theory is not that Darwin would have been a Nazi, but that many fascist and totalitarian ideals are born out of political leaders who embrace Darwinism specifically, ie. 'Darwinism played a key role not only in the rise of eugenics, but also in euthanasia, infanticide, abortion, and racial extermination, all ultimately embraced by the Nazis.' Like I stated earlier, I not on either side of this one - but there is a lot of research to look into to get a clearer picture of what Ben Stein was aiming at.
Yerachmiel

re: #117 Eyes of Blue

Oh, you're not that bad Killgore.

You're new, wait a little while!
/

re: #125 Whammo

Eugenics is Evolution's chickens coming home to roost.

Eugenics is morons trying to devolve themselves ;)

re: #128 Thanos

What he said, bigtime. Nice one, Thanos.

Jimmy Carter
Dinner Jacket
The discussion is over

Dooney and Bourke make a pricey bag.
Funky Chicken

T. Rex Protein "Confirms" Bird-Dinosaur Link

A new study of ancient proteins retrieved from a Tyranosaurus rex fossil confirms the long-hypothesized evolutionary connection between dinosaurs and modern birds, experts say.

The finding is the first molecular evidence that birds, not lizards or other reptiles, are the closest living relatives of dinosaurs, the researchers note.

A close relationship between the two groups was already widely suspected, based on similarities in skeletal features.

I'm assuming this transformation happened gradually over a long period of time and T Rex didn't one day suddenly grow feathers, sprout wings, and start flying.

/where's the chain of fossil evidence, so far we have T Rex and we have birds, what about the intervening, evolutionary creatures, any paleontologists in the house?

re: #115 Catttt

Coach is too expensive. I'm a cheapskate. I buy Target brand.

strangely, the last grass green purse i got a target turned pea green.
i want grass green. i've been saving up for it.

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

When did the luthiers debate vanish?

They do it all the time, I've seen screaming matches over it.

re: #37 song_and_dance_man

Haven't seen the movie and probably won't -- not because of any opinions I might have on the subject but I just don't really have the time or interest. That said, Social Darwinism is not the same as Darwinism, not by a long shot, and the Eugenics movement was conceived separate from political Antisemitism. This is not to say they wasn't overlap, but they also are not connected in a linear fashion.

The Nazis drew together a number of these principles, but if you follow the origins of the ideology, Antisemitism was first and foremost a political creed. It was rooted in radical nationalism and opposition to capitalism, liberalism, and, belatedly, soviet communism. The "social hygiene" and master race ideas were added later and derived from the ideas of Houston Chamberlain and Richard Darre as well as some of the American eugenics folk.

I think the real issue is not that science drove Nazis to hate Jews, but that Nazis hated Jews and exploited science in an effort to convince people that hating Jews was not so bad, or at least to confuse the issue enough to make arguing with them more difficult. But they didn't need Darwin, any more than the nineteenth century authors of modern political Antisemitism in France, Austria, and Germany needed Darwin.

Eugenics is not caused by Darwin....but they sure like eachother, it seems

re: #116 Intrepid

They'd go great with Potato soup.

i'll put some herbs in the bisquits too. maybe a little chopped sage.

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Are there major varnish factions, or just individual recipes?

re: #93 Silhouette

It rained so much last night, the puppy wouldn't go out. I encouraged her greatly.

We have a bush by the door; the little dogs go right under it when it rains.
It's the big ones I have to shove out the door.

I liked him better as Kevin Arnold's teacher.

re: #121 song_and_dance_man

I'd rather believe in creative design than stupid design.

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter;
to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

I'll say again what I said in the last thread, right up front, so no one is appalled and insulted by my views and needs to send me hate mail -- I am not a fan of intelligent design, creationism, or whatever it's being called this year.

I do not begrudge anyone their beliefs, and if you choose to believe in ID I respect that choice and will not insult or degrade you for it.

But I don't believe in it, and I don't think it should be taught as "science," and I hope you'll grant the same respect.

Well I have not yet seen the film.

But certainly Darwinism could have contributed to an intellectual atmosphere in which the Holocaust was more possible, IMHO

re: #143 Lucius Septimius

The "social hygiene" and master race ideas were added later and derived from the ideas of Houston Chamberlain and Richard Darre as well as some of the American eugenics folk.

Don't forget Nietzsche!

Shoes:

I just bought myself a pair of Seychelles boots.

re: #125 Whammo

Eugenics is Evolution's chickens coming home to roost.

Well with logic like that, I guess you'll be defending Ward Churchill next.

re: #141 nyc redneck
I got a really different looking patchwork Coach bag for my birthday a few months ago. I love them.

re: #123 Naso Tang

I get mine through spam, even cheaper.

They're probably knockoffs that fund the intefada. :)

re: #140 Killian Bundy

any paleontologists in the house?

I can pretend to be one if you'd like. Or pretend to be a prize winning journalist that takes his life into his own hands when he bravely interviews terrorists.

re: #95 goddessoftheclassroom

Anyone want to talk about shoes?

Do you remember the thread where there was a discussion of shoes that were a mix of Mary Jane's and what Mandy termed "FMFMN pumps"? One of my students showed up wearing those the other day with black hose and a black knit mini dress.

re: #150 Charles

I'll say again what I said in the last thread, right up front, so no one is appalled and insulted by my views and needs to send me hate mail -- I am not a fan of intelligent design, creationism, or whatever it's being called this year.

I do not begrudge anyone their beliefs, and if you choose to believe in ID I respect that choice and will not insult or degrade you for it.

But I don't believe in it, and I don't think it should be taught as "science," and I hope you'll grant the same respect.

why am I one of the few people who think we can have it both ways?

re: #142 Killgore Trout

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

When did the luthiers debate vanish?

They do it all the time, I've seen screaming matches over it.

Killgore, read my comment carefully. A bad stab at humor on my part maybe.

Walter in Golden, Co.

re: #155 snowcrash

I got a really different looking patchwork Coach bag for my birthday a few months ago. I love them.

Seriously, I just got a nice bag from Target for cheap.

re: #145 nyc redneck

i'll put some herbs in the bisquits too. maybe a little chopped sage.

I've been trying to stay out of this...I don't deserve to get chopped!

re: #157 ec marm

Be careful, you could lose everything

re: #158 song_and_dance_man

Gotta go to the Rush concert now.

later

Jealous!

re: #153 Catttt

Shoes:

I just bought myself a pair of Seychelles boots.

NICE!

I carry my nice shoes into school but wear sneakers or boots from door to door.

Stein is misusing the holocaust.

The only holocaust studies we need are from qualified historians and archaeologists who can add to the extant data.

re: #127 goddessoftheclassroom

i have a small collection of those little wooden box bags from the late '60's. the ones w/ the crazy things glued on them, gems and shells and outrageous paintings of birds and landscapes.

re: #140 Killian Bundy

[Link: www.google.com...]
I'm no paleontologist, but I do like dinosaurs.

re: #158 song_and_dance_man

Have a great time with your son!

re: #96 Naso Tang

Eugenics isn't evolution anymore than breeding dogs is.

Darwinism "evolved" into Eugenics. It's a logical and even unavoidable progression.

re: #156 Catttt

They're probably knockoffs that fund the intefada. :)

Knockoffs? Surely you jest?

Actually, I think they fund the oppression of Tibet, or the Olympic games. Take your pick.

re: #150 Charles

I'll say again what I said in the last thread, right up front, so no one is appalled and insulted by my views and needs to send me hate mail -- I am not a fan of intelligent design, creationism, or whatever it's being called this year.

I do not begrudge anyone their beliefs, and if you choose to believe in ID I respect that choice and will not insult or degrade you for it.

But I don't believe in it, and I don't think it should be taught as "science," and I hope you'll grant the same respect.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish though...

re: #159 Lucius Septimius

Do you remember the thread where there was a discussion of shoes that were a mix of Mary Jane's and what Mandy termed "FMFMN pumps"? One of my students showed up wearing those the other day with black hose and a black knit mini dress.

You should have taken a picture with which to taunt her in 10 years...

The only thing that I have a problem with is that the ADL seems to be somewhat selective with its criticism. How many times has the left (particularly posters on the Huffington Post and Daily Kos) used language describing Pres. Bush and other conservatives as Nazis? I don't think I have ever seen the ADL criticize, in the form of a press release, the use of this hateful and cruel language towards conservatives.

re: #159 Lucius Septimius

Do you remember the thread where there was a discussion of shoes that were a mix of Mary Jane's and what Mandy termed "FMFMN pumps"? One of my students showed up wearing those the other day with black hose and a black knit mini dress.

I can't wear heels - I had bunion surgery. So I wear trendy flat shoes. And skateshoes.

re: #150 Charles

I'll say again what I said in the last thread, right up front, so no one is appalled and insulted by my views and needs to send me hate mail -- I am not a fan of intelligent design, creationism, or whatever it's being called this year.

I do not begrudge anyone their beliefs, and if you choose to believe in ID I respect that choice and will not insult or degrade you for it.

But I don't believe in it, and I don't think it should be taught as "science," and I hope you'll grant the same respect.

i couldn't agree more.

re: #151 Ojoe

Well I have not yet seen the film.

But certainly Darwinism could have contributed to an intellectual atmosphere in which the Holocaust was more possible, IMHO

So, using that logic, any scientific advancement could make induce someone to use it for evil. Let's stop all science.

Walter in Golden, Co.

re: #140 Killian Bundy

On second look, the archaeopteryx seems more bird than t-rex. Probably not 'in the middle' enough.

re: #151 Ojoe

Well I have not yet seen the film.

But certainly Darwinism could have contributed to an intellectual atmosphere in which the Holocaust was more possible, IMHO

Even after WWII there was a pervasive belief that "progress" in the social arena was a natural extension of progress (evolution) in the biological arena.
We were taught that in school here in the USA.
I don't think that idea was ever truly repudiated.
More like it fell out of style.
Something to do with unintended consequences if I recall correctly.

re: #160 paxnhymn

why am I one of the few people who think we can have it both ways?

What? Manners or science?

re: #140 Killian Bundy

There is a cool book that argues that t-rex & co. were flightless birds, descended from flying basal stock. The author suggest that the young probably were downy but lost the feathers later.

re: #166 goddessoftheclassroom

NICE!

I carry my nice shoes into school but wear sneakers or boots from door to door.

Me too. I used to wear skateshoes to work, but they finally caught me.

re: #131 paxnhymn

The argument is that there is actually no way to verify carbon dating, except more carbon dating, so all of our preconceived timelines may be incorrect.....does seem a valid argument.

See the section on Accuracy of dating
These elements (carbon, strontium, etc) decay at a very predicable rate.

re: #163 DesertSage

I've been trying to stay out of this...I don't deserve to get chopped!

ooooooh, sorry. how abt. some thyme and chives.

re: #164 jaunte

Be careful, you could lose everything

Hehehe.
You forgot the "please trust me on this" part. I like that the best. It makes it so much more dramatic and draws the reader in as part of the grand conspiracy of silence.

re: #152 Captain Morgan

Don't forget Nietzsche!

I'm not -- just focusing on the Science! part (as opposed to science)

How is my life different if I believe in Evolution or ID? It is possible that both concepts are flawed, or at the very least, incomplete. Is it necessary that I know the answer to this somewhat imponderable question? Is it necessary that I stride in to the fighting ring on this one?

I think not.

re: #154 haakondahl

Well with logic like that, I guess you'll be defending Ward Churchill next.

Strawman argument.

re: #171 HBob

Darwinism "evolved" into Eugenics. It's a logical and even unavoidable progression.

Not that I agree, but are you saying that if we didn't understand evolution (or heard about it) we wouldn't be capable of "eugenics"?

What does Obama think ?

re: #181 Naso Tang

What? Manners or science?

nahh..that God's intelligent design may have well involved evolution...

re: #162 Catttt
The boots look great but I would have to see the bag and try it on myself. Get the feel, know what I mean.

There are other elements besides carbon that can be used for dating, and the results also match with carbon dating. There are also marked history events that match with carbon dating.

Instead of trying to disprove what's been experimented and replication millions of times by disparate and sometimes skeptical scientists worldwide, the creationists need to prove ID. Come up with experiments, tests, things that are falsifiable as their proofs.

*On the other hand - Scientists need to take this challenge on, and anywhere the ID folks have a quibble, do the work and prove them wrong. You know you can, so some of the Science side folks need to stop being so defensive and lazy and tear down the challenges, as thin as they might be.

Meantime, until someone can replicate or prove ID, it doesn't belong in Science class.

re: #176 Catttt

I can't wear heels - I had bunion surgery. So I wear trendy flat shoes. And skateshoes.

One of the unexpected silver linings of the end of my marriage is that I can wear heels again--EH wasn't tall enough for me to wear them.

I will eventually need bunion surgery, but I'm going to put it off for as long as I can!

re: #188 rawmuse

How is my life different if I believe in Evolution or ID? It is possible that both concepts are flawed, or at the very least, incomplete.

That's been my argument all along.

re: #176 Catttt
Heeley's?

re: #191 LeftJustAintRight

What does Obama think ?

Does he?

re: #171 HBob

Darwinism "evolved" into Eugenics. It's a logical and even unavoidable progression.

Have to disagree. "Darwinism" (research into the mechanics of evolution) is objective with no social/political agenda. Eugenics is Leftist elitism at its ugliest.

re: #153 Catttt

Shoes:

I just bought myself a pair of Seychelles boots.

Boots!

Charles
You should invite Obama and Hillary to the Lounge for a Q&A

I'm more concerned with ADLs argument.

What is it exactly? That Stein explains away Hitlers evil by stating it is just the end result of Darwinism? or that Darwinism played a part in allowing Hitler to convince people of Eugenics?

Personally, I think that in some way this is just the ADL trying to figure out how to balance their Judaism with their liberalism.

re: #161 Walter L. Newton

Heh, didn't catch that the first time 'round.

re: #195 goddessoftheclassroom

For teaching I gotta wear something i can stand on all day without pain.

re: #150 Charles

I'll say again what I said in the last thread, right up front, so no one is appalled and insulted by my views and needs to send me hate mail -- I am not a fan of intelligent design, creationism, or whatever it's being called this year.

I do not begrudge anyone their beliefs, and if you choose to believe in ID I respect that choice and will not insult or degrade you for it.

But I don't believe in it, and I don't think it should be taught as "science," and I hope you'll grant the same respect.

Fair enough.

re: #196 DesertSage

That's been my argument all along.

And you cannot concede that one may be vastly less complete than the other? Even a little less?

re: #171 HBob

Darwinism "evolved" into Eugenics. It's a logical and even unavoidable progression.

No it's not - even the term "survival of the fittest" gets it somewhat wrong. That's only one mechanism of evolution, and it's not really survival of the fittest, it's survival of the best adapted to the environment. One of the very reasons we didn't have too many dinosaurs left after the ice ages and other events.

re: #184 Killgore Trout

See the section on Accuracy of dating
These elements (carbon, strontium, etc) decay at a very predicable rate.

yes, but scientifically, there needs to be an EXTERNAL way to verify carbon dating. The argument is carbon dating without confirmation is not science....Empirical data...it's taken on faith.

re: #150 Charles
Ditto, Great post Charles... Good evening all!

Well, I don't know what the ADL is complaining about?

You take Darwin to its logical conclusion, of course it can lead to all sorts of evil...whether that be marxism or nazism..

Remember...Dostevsky the great Russian writer wrote that 'without God, all things are permittable'..........and he wasn't saying that as a good thing but a dangerous thing...

If we are nothing but accidental blobs, then why cannot someone say that their race is superior as Hitler did? The Supermen right....

Those of us that do not hold to militant Darwin thought and see us as not accidents know of course we are all equal and created in the image of Holy God.......

I'm not sure why this is worthy of any complaint...Do away with God, and all hell breaks loose....this is history...and the present..

I think some of the female posters have a stronger survival instinct as evidenced by the avoidance of this topic.

re: #109 nyc redneck

how abt. the new purse i'm going to get. grass green (coach)
i love green pocket books. they are so cheerful in the spring.

Yeah, but the trouble is, if you buy a green purse, then you have to have the right shoes.
Wait. What am I saying?
That's a bonus!

re: #203 Killgore Trout

Heh, didn't catch that the first time 'round.

I'm half French, too nuanced.

Walter in Golden, Co.

"How is my life different if I believe in Evolution or ID? It is possible that both concepts are flawed, or at the very least, incomplete."

Creationism(AKA: ID) is is flawed and wrong. Evolution is flawed and correct.

re: #188 rawmuse

How is my life different if I believe in Evolution or ID? It is possible that both concepts are flawed, or at the very least, incomplete. Is it necessary that I know the answer to this somewhat imponderable question? Is it necessary that I stride in to the fighting ring on this one?

I think not.

Just to answer your question from my own point of view and NOT to argue:

I believe in God the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
Of all that is, seen and unseen...

That is the "what" I believe; I really couldn't care less about the "how."

re: #207 Thanos

I thought that giant Veracruz asteroid killed the dinos.....by....wait for it...

...

...

...

CLIMATE CHANGE!

And she takes the lead!
Gallup Daily: Clinton 47%, Obama 46%

Onward to Denver!

re: #188 rawmuse

How is my life different if I believe in Evolution or ID? It is possible that both concepts are flawed, or at the very least, incomplete. Is it necessary that I know the answer to this somewhat imponderable question? Is it necessary that I stride in to the fighting ring on this one?

I think not.

Heyas muse!

There's a Kabbalistic view that they two are actually compatible. Each day of the 7 days of creation can be equated with millions of years, not a 24 hour day. Also, the existence of Adam and Eve as the "first persons" were not the first homosapians, but the first to have a spiritual soul, or as some see it, the ability to recognize and interact with God.

But it doesn't matter.... God should be taught in Church, Temple, etc. and science should be taught in school. Period. End of story.

re: #197 snowcrash

Heeley's?

Adio - the Heartgram model. I wuv them very much.

re: #206 Naso Tang

And you cannot concede that one may be vastly less complete than the other? Even a little less?

ahhh..that wreaks of a, "can't you admit I'm closer to right?" argument..

re: #126 haakondahl

No, some of Hitler's rationalization of his paranoia was based on eugenics. And at any rate, while loathsome eugenics may draw support from legitimate science (just as the bunk of astrology does), evolutionary theory itself has nothing to do with eugenics. Doesn't lead to it, doesn't support it, unless you are a paranoid. In which case we are no longer talking about science.

You don't need to be paranoid to make the connection between evolution and eugenics, just cold and clinical. Like Dr. Mengele.

It simply illustrates that evolution taken to its logical conclusions leads to sociopathic behavior. Go research what Darwin's theory had to say about women and blacks.

re: #217 DesertSage

I was listening to Air America today and they mentioned that it was a Hillary supporter that invited Wright to give the ______ Club speech.

ha! ha!

re: #208 paxnhymn

yes, but scientifically, there needs to be an EXTERNAL way to verify carbon dating. The argument is carbon dating without confirmation is not science....Empirical data...it's taken on faith.

One of the very very simplest ways to date carbon, is to count the growth rings in trees that can be several thousand hears old, and then to match those with fossil dead trees with overlapping ring patterns, giving several more thousand years of records and so on.

That is an external verification.

re: #216 OldLineTexan

I thought that giant Veracruz asteroid killed the dinos.....by....wait for it...

...

...

...

CLIMATE CHANGE!

Would democrat dinosaurs have blamed republican dinosaurs for the new moving ball of light they would have seen for some time moving ominously towards them?

re: #102 Catttt

I had pizza for lunch.

Yeah but did you make your own dough?

re: #204 Lucius Septimius

For teaching I gotta wear something i can stand on all day without pain.

Rockports makes some good comfy shoes. I used to wear Comforts when I worked in a bookstore.

re: #210 Albertanator

Well, I don't know what the ADL is complaining about?

You take Darwin to its logical conclusion, of course it can lead to all sorts of evil...whether that be marxism or nazism..

Remember...Dostevsky the great Russian writer wrote that 'without God, all things are permittable'..........and he wasn't saying that as a good thing but a dangerous thing...

If we are nothing but accidental blobs, then why cannot someone say that their race is superior as Hitler did? The Supermen right....

Those of us that do not hold to militant Darwin thought and see us as not accidents know of course we are all equal and created in the image of Holy God.......

I'm not sure why this is worthy of any complaint...Do away with God, and all hell breaks loose....this is history...and the present..

Darwin was a Christian. You accept the logical fallacy of the DI institute. Darwinism does not deny the possible existance of god, it merely describes means by which species might evolve. Please attack this with reason, not emotion.

re: #208 paxnhymn

yes, but scientifically, there needs to be an EXTERNAL way to verify carbon dating. The argument is carbon dating without confirmation is not science....Empirical data...it's taken on faith.

One of the things with not only carbon dating but using the other elements. the decay processes where predicted by quantum physics and chemistry.

Which is exactly what good science is about. Develop a theory, and test it. Quantum equations predict decay rates which can be measures.

re: #188 rawmuse

How is my life different if I believe in Evolution or ID? It is possible that both concepts are flawed, or at the very least, incomplete. Is it necessary that I know the answer to this somewhat imponderable question? Is it necessary that I stride in to the fighting ring on this one?

I think not.

One of the rules I live by is 'the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle'. I think we're starting to see the synthesis of this dialectic.

Entropy rules all matter. Except for living matter, which pursues an opposite course of less homogeneity and higher states of order. I daresay there's another force at work. One which is not independently replicable in a lab.

re: #225 Alouette

Yeah but did you make your own dough?

Papa did it for me.

I'll say this I am Catholic and I believe in evolution

re: #207 Thanos

No it's not - even the term "survival of the fittest" gets it somewhat wrong. That's only one mechanism of evolution, and it's not really survival of the fittest, it's survival of the best adapted to the environment. One of the very reasons we didn't have too many dinosaurs left after the ice ages and other events.

And the measure of that is the ability to reproduce effectively. Different species have different strategies that are effective in different contexts. Cockroaches are fit; so are we. But we employ vastly different strategies for the survival of the species. And a strategy that works for millions of years may cease to should the climate, flora or fauna change. Marsupials did great in S. America. That is, until they had to compete with placental mammals from N. America. Then they died.

re: #75 Charles

Actually, the system is going to evolve soon, to include a top-rated comments feature...

What about the comments with the most negative dings?

re: #218 marjoriemoon

That would be a +1 for the 1st paragraph...but not the 2nd.

Science is wrong as much as religion.

re: #214 Nemesis6

"How is my life different if I believe in Evolution or ID? It is possible that both concepts are flawed, or at the very least, incomplete."

Creationism(AKA: ID) is is flawed and wrong. Evolution is flawed and correct.

fixed it for you.

re: #217 DesertSage

And she takes the lead!
Gallup Daily: Clinton 47%, Obama 46%

Onward to Denver!

Can you imagine the party split if the Democrat super-delegates vote for Clinton and she wins the nomination? McCain could be the worlds luckiest presidential candidate!

Senator C is going to be on O'Reilly's show tomorrow. Should be fun.

re: #223 Naso Tang

One of the very very simplest ways to date carbon, is to count the growth rings in trees that can be several thousand hears old, and then to match those with fossil dead trees with overlapping ring patterns, giving several more thousand years of records and so on.

That is an external verification.

provided the growth rings were consistent from one time frame to another...

re: #222 WrathofG-d

I was listening to Air America today and they mentioned that it was a Hillary supporter that invited Wright to give the ______ Club speech.

ha! ha!

That is correct. Part of Lifes Rich Pageant.

re: #215 goddessoftheclassroom

That is the "what" I believe; I really couldn't care less about the "how."

Do you believe the sun will rise tomorrow? Do you really not care to know how?

re: #217 DesertSage

And she takes the lead!
Gallup Daily: Clinton 47%, Obama 46%

Onward to Denver!

Thunderdome!

re: #189 Whammo

Strawman argument.

If you had said something more intelligent than "Eugenics is Evolution's chickens coming home to roost", I might be concerned with your criticism.

You are blurring the line between legitimate scientific inquiry (especially in an area where observation has borne out prediction time and time again, making it a very strong theory) and the rantings of hateful people with skewed morality. Although plenty of screwed-up people attempt to draw connections between valid science and their loony views, it doesn't mean that the connection is there.

If I happen to believe that orbital mechanics is a good way to explain things, and that therefore I should go about slamming people out of what I perceive to be my orbit, it doesn't actually link orbital mechanics to my random violence. It just makes me a psychopathic Velikovskian.

re: #226 Catttt

Rockports makes some good comfy shoes. I used to wear Comforts when I worked in a bookstore.

New Balance (the running shoe guys) used to have a great line of comfortable casual/semi-dress shoes, but it was discontinued.

re: #206 Naso Tang

And you cannot concede that one may be vastly less complete than the other? Even a little less?

I have to admit, on the last evolution thread you were pretty fair in your arguments. You didn't take any cheap shots and we actually had a good debate.

It's been a long day and I just don't have the energy to rehash all of my arguments tonight. We can do it again some other time, alright?

Yep. I tend to agree with the ADL. Darwin and the Theory of Evolution was not "the" problem nor a causative factor...(although I think the argument could be "nuanced." meaning the difficulties associated with Social Darwinism...or the misapplication of pseudo-Darwinianism as used by nazis...as were many, many other notions to advance nazi ideology...)

re: #226 Catttt

Rockports makes some good comfy shoes. I used to wear Comforts when I worked in a bookstore.

I've got some good ones from Bass that look great.

My cowboy boots are surprisingly comfy, but I only wear those when I need to kick people in the arse.

re: #134 Yerachmiel
Hitler would have done what he did with or without an excuse.
Maybe it convinced a few more people, but his "charisma" probably was a much bigger incentive. That, and a justification for their own feelings of superiority.
Why is it the lowest forms of human life need some excuse to put other groups down so they can feel superior? It just shows that they're insecure.

I don't need to look down on any group to feel good about myself.

re: #238 paxnhymn

provided the growth rings were consistent from one time frame to another...

Is there reason to believe that they're not?

I don't believe that creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive. And that's all I'm going to say on the subject.

re: #224 bosforus

Would democrat dinosaurs have blamed republican dinosaurs for the new moving ball of light they would have seen for some time moving ominously towards them?

Infidel! Dinos were Muslims!

re: #169 bosforus

[Link: www.google.com...]
I'm no paleontologist, but I do like dinosaurs.

Thanks, but "Archaeopteryx could grow to about 0.5 metres (1.6 ft) in length." T-Rex weighed several tons. It's still a fossil mystery how one became the other.

Darwin described the lack of transitional fossils as "the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory", but explained it by the extreme imperfection of the geological record.

/that was way back then, this is now and we're still not bridging many of these fossil gaps

re: #208 paxnhymn

yes, but scientifically, there needs to be an EXTERNAL way to verify carbon dating. The argument is carbon dating without confirmation is not science....Empirical data...it's taken on faith.

James P. Hogan has some fascinating things to say on that tack.

re: #240 Naso Tang

Do you believe the sun will rise tomorrow? Do you really not care to know how?

Actually, the sun will only appear to rise, based on your position.

/SCIENCE!

re: #75 Charles

Actually, the system is going to evolve soon, to include a top-rated comments feature...

And with a top rated comment you get to be king of the thread
That and $1.89 will get you a cup of coffe

re: #240 Naso Tang

Do you believe the sun will rise tomorrow? Do you really not care to know how?

This subject really is your big thang, ain't it?

re: #221 Whammo

You don't need to be paranoid to make the connection between evolution and eugenics, just cold and clinical. Like Dr. Mengele.

It simply illustrates that evolution taken to its logical conclusions leads to sociopathic behavior. Go research what Darwin's theory had to say about women and blacks.

Bull and shit, that arg's been refuted many times. You might as well say that the law of gravity leads to genocide taken to it's logical conclusion. It's the Christian elitist factor: that no person who's an aetheist can be moral, or value life. It's as bad an argument as global warming -- anything can be modeled to logical extreme and tarred. Remember how many beat downs people comparing the Inquisition to the Taliban get here?

re: #211 snowcrash

I think some of the female posters have a stronger survival instinct as evidenced by the avoidance of this topic.

Survival instinct? What's the implication?

re: #150 Charles

I'll say again what I said in the last thread, right up front, so no one is appalled and insulted by my views and needs to send me hate mail -- I am not a fan of intelligent design, creationism, or whatever it's being called this year.

I do not begrudge anyone their beliefs, and if you choose to believe in ID I respect that choice and will not insult or degrade you for it.

But I don't believe in it, and I don't think it should be taught as "science," and I hope you'll grant the same respect.

TO ME IT IS A THEOLOGICAL ISSUE, one man's theology is not the same as the next persons. Now science is not absolute either, the scientific process is not the same thing as the results of said process. You can use the scientific process and get two totally different results. I think an example of political ideas using science for strictly political events is the whole global climate thing.

re: #235 VegasRick

fixed it for you.

You know, another Creationist did the exact same thing. No evidence, just saying the opposite will do. That's why people don't take Creationism seriously: Because they cannot prove their crap. And when they try(Kent Hovind) everyone laughs at them, so the easiest way is just to circumvent the scientific method and claim that what you're preaching is science.

re: #216 OldLineTexan

I thought that giant Veracruz asteroid killed the dinos.....by....wait for it...

...

...

...

CLIMATE CHANGE!

Yes, but there were already winged dinos by that time. And most winged species survived that period. Mainly becuase they were more mobile and able to relocate to areas where they could find food/shelter.

And I wouldn't really call that incident climate change. In the geological record, that was more like a nuclear hit.

Walter in Golden, Co.

re: #238 paxnhymn

provided the growth rings were consistent from one time frame to another...

Of course, and that is readily verifiable in many cases. Growth rings are like UPS bars. All are slightly different and can be sequence matched like fingerprints; /but you knew that.

re: #240 Naso Tang

Do you believe the sun will rise tomorrow? Do you really not care to know how?

I was only addressing the question asked and my reason for my position. I am not entering this fray.

Back to shoes and purses...

As for me, I think we were created. And I reference Genesis chapter 6. There was definitely some galactic interaction going on there. Whatever it was, God thought that it merited a do-over. The gene pool got a big flush right about then.

re: #246 Lucius Septimius

I've got some good ones from Bass that look great.

My cowboy boots are surprisingly comfy, but I only wear those when I need to kick people in the arse.

My Doc Marten 8 eyes are comfy (you have to break them in), but work figured out about them and banned "work boots."

re: #243 Charles

New Balance (the running shoe guys) used to have a great line of comfortable casual/semi-dress shoes, but it was discontinued.

Charles, please don't fall into their evil plan to get us all arguing over shoes!

re: #208 paxnhymn

yes, but scientifically, there needs to be an EXTERNAL way to verify carbon dating. The argument is carbon dating without confirmation is not science....Empirical data...it's taken on faith.

Physicists have proven radiometric decay about 100 years ago. It's pretty much a settled matter. The half life of pretty much all the elements is known. You can deny that radio metric decay doesn't exist or that it doesn't work but many fields of science use it effectively every day. They are continually improving the accuracy it.

re: #228 jcm

One of the things with not only carbon dating but using the other elements. the decay processes where predicted by quantum physics and chemistry.

Which is exactly what good science is about. Develop a theory, and test it. Quantum equations predict decay rates which can be measures.

ohhh, i understand. probably so, but in the end everything is up for scrutiny, and i think that is the crux of the problem; the scientific community treats the THEORY of evolution as fact (I still suspect pushed by an agenda to support a disbelief in The Divine...no offense intended Kilgore) and therein lies the problem...that's a type of FAITH...a belief system unto itself! A religion...

re: #246 Lucius Septimius

I've got some good ones from Bass that look great.

My cowboy boots are surprisingly comfy, but I only wear those when I need to kick people in the arse.

I need to wear high-tops for ankle support, but can't find any that (1) don't look like biker or hiker boots (2) don't have a high heel (3) don't cost a fortune

re: #244 DesertSage

I have to admit, on the last evolution thread you were pretty fair in your arguments. You didn't take any cheap shots and we actually had a good debate.

It's been a long day and I just don't have the energy to rehash all of my arguments tonight. We can do it again some other time, alright?

I appreciate that comment. Sounds like my chickens finally coming to roost.

Nite.