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Indonesian Christians Intimidated by Islamic Groups

Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:52:19 am PDT

In the so-called “moderate” Islamic state of Indonesia, Christians are being forced out of their churches as Islamic supremacists take over: Indonesians seek salvation in shops.

If the BBC is reporting on the situation in such a downbeat way, you can be sure it’s a lot worse than this article makes it appear.

Empty shopping malls are eerie, and this one is no different. But in the dim light of early morning, figures can be seen slipping past the security guards, their footsteps echoing down empty corridors.

It is Sunday morning, not yet 8 o’clock, and the shops are all still locked and shuttered. But these people have not come to shop; they have come to pray.

Shopping malls in West Java are home to a growing number of Christian congregations. There are 10 in this mall alone. Few of them want to talk publicly about why they are here, but off the record they admit it comes down to intimidation by Muslim groups.

According to Church groups more than 100 churches have faced attack or intimidation in the past two years.

One of the groups alleged to be behind some of these incidents is the FPI, or Islamic Defenders Front, a radical group that became a household name when it forced Playboy magazine out of Java. Church leaders allege the group’s members are forcing churches to close through violence and intimidation.

Saipul Abdullah, the head of the FPI in this area, told me that there may be people at the grassroots level who react emotionally. “They become very angry and frustrated and little eruptions can happen,” he said. “Maybe they’ll tear down a sign, or shake some doors, or lock some doors, but they don’t really have the right to do that.”

But, he said, this was not about religion. It is about the fact that some churches are not playing by the rules. Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services.

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1 DesertSage  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:54:10am

Didn't Barack H. Obama live in Indonesia?

2 victor_yugo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:55:47am

"Play by the rules," and the Mohammedans get to make the rules.

Result: over 11,000 murdered by Islamic haters since 9/11

3 Catttt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:56:08am

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matthew 18:20

4 Lively  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:56:49am

"We Christians will not be kept in chains!"

.......the Reverend in the news

5 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:57:13am

What a nasty virus.

6 X-ray  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:57:19am
But, he said, this was not about religion. It is about the fact that some churches are not playing by the rules. Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services.

I'll make a wild guess that "by rules" he means Sharia law.

So not really a lie just a little more obfuscation by an Islamist.

7 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:57:28am
But, he said, this was not about religion.

Sure it's not. How much did you want for the Brooklyn Bridge again?

8 Dianna  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:57:41am

And his group, of course, is an enforcement arm for those who issue the permits?

Nonsense.

Were I these Christians, I'd start thinking about self-defense, because it's clear that the government isn't defending them. So why do they pay taxes?

9 Athos  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:57:44am
But, he said, this was not about religion. It is about the fact that some churches are not playing by the rules.

Of course religion has nothing to do with it.....Islam is the religion of peace, moderation, and tolerance. /sarc

10 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:58:16am
11 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:58:25am

Portae inferi non praevalebunt.

12 Tumulus11  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:58:39am

. The official permit costs an arm and a leg.

13 Athos  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:59:16am

re: #12 Tumulus11

. The official permit costs an arm and a leg.

Literally unless one converts.

14 Silhouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:59:28am

Western Christian societies are accused of exactly what other societies do to minorities.

15 zmdavid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 8:59:32am

Do Muslims need to buy permits? Do they get beat up if they don't?

16 Step on a Bug  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:00:06am

"If the people of the world hate you know that they hated me before they hated you." -somewhere in John

17 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:00:26am
But, he said, this was not about religion. It is about the fact that some churches are not playing by the rules. Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services.

So:

1) Why do they need permits in the first place?
2) Why don't they have permits?
3) And so those people of no particular religion vandalizing the churches and threatening the churchgoers are just... angry about their failure to obtain the required permits? Right? Real sticklers for proper procedure, are they?

18 MandyManners  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:00:31am

re: #1 DesertSage

Didn't Barack H. Obama live in Indonesia?

TWP.

19 mean Gene  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:00:51am

Cool, Islam is learning to use ''the rules" to wipe out the competition.
Well, then that's all right. /

20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:01:06am
Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services.

Oh, so they don't have the required paperwork, well thats another story then.

/

I guess Freedom of Religion isn't a big thing in Indonesia.

21 beblebrox  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:01:08am

re: #15 zmdavid

Do Muslims need to buy permits? Do they get beat up if they don't?

I'll have to remember to beat the heck out of my neighbors for not getting a dog license.

22 doppelganglander  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:01:52am

Why would a church need a permit? I'm pretty sure they're not talking about zoning requirements and certificates of occupancy.

23 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:02:01am

Jamal Islamia has been terrorizing Christians in Indonesia for years. I have friends from Ambon province who had to swim for their lives back in the late 90's, when at their church retreat camp, J.I. came calling.

One of their victims is listed in the book "Jesus Freaks", a combo work by dc Talk and Voice of the Martyers, updating "Foxe's Book of Martyrs". His name was Roy, and he was torn limb from limb because he would not deny his faith.

He was 16, I think.

24 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:02:06am

re: #14 Silhouette

Western Christian societies are accused of exactly what other societies do to minorities.

Which reveals the inherent racism and double standards of the western leftist who level those accusations.

25 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:02:17am
To get an official permit, congregations must get 90 signatures of support from their non-Christian neighbours.

But in some areas, that is not easy to do.

Must be due to all that islamic tolerance.

26 rabidsquirrel  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:02:28am

This is one instance where the MSM should use the term 'Islamophobia'.

Fear of Islam. A well-founded fear, at that.

27 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:02:37am

Note that BBC apparently takes the Islamofascist's "oh, it's just about their failure to obtain permits" claim at face value.

28 rawmuse  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:03:10am

re: #22 doppelganglander

Why would a church need a permit? I'm pretty sure they're not talking about zoning requirements and certificates of occupancy.

It is called Jizya.

29 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:03:18am

re: #23 Intrepid

Is not life sacred?

30 pat  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:03:51am

Again, the Muslims recognize that if given a choice, all normal people would leave Islam . Islam is scared shitless of a level intellectual playing field.

31 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:04:00am

re: #1 DesertSage

Didn't Barack H. Obama live in Indonesia?

Yes - which therefore qualifies him as a foreign policy expert.

/DNC

32 mean Gene  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:04:14am

re: #25 Sharmuta
To get an official permit, congregations must get 90 signatures of support from their non-Christian neighbours.

But in some areas, that is not easy to do.

Must be due to all that islamic tolerance.

I bet the jizya in those areas is a real bitch.

33 paxnhymn  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:04:17am

re: #17 Occasional Reader

So:

1) Why do they need permits in the first place?
2) Why don't they have permits?
3) And so those people of no particular religion vandalizing the churches and threatening the churchgoers are just... angry about their failure to obtain the required permits? Right? Real sticklers for proper procedure, are they?

tracking and submission. If you can keep track of the Christians, then when it is less offensive (soon) you can make them slaves of Islam (one of their components...conversion, slavery, or death)...it's all about sharia.

34 Silhouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:04:40am

re: #30 pat

Again, the Muslims recognize that if given a choice, all normal people would leave Islam . Islam is scared shitless of a level intellectual playing field.

Because it needs repeating.

35 brakes  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:04:52am
“They become very angry and frustrated and little eruptions can happen,” he said. “Maybe they’ll tear down a sign, or shake some doors, or lock some doors, but they don’t really have the right to do that.”

I'll bet that's all they do when they get very angry.

36 bulwrk  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:04:58am

But, he said, this was not about religion. It is about the fact that some churches are not playing by the rules.


When muslim student associations turn public spaces on university campuses into prayer rooms they are not playing by the rules, and they tell us its all about religion.

37 Silhouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:05:19am

Islam in one word: Supremacy.

38 Lively  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:05:34am

re: #23 Intrepid

:(

39 Athos  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:05:35am

re: #14 Silhouette

Of course, since those other societies have no challenges doing those things, they have to assume (and reconcile themselves) that the West also must do those things. It helps them 'justify' their actions.

It's fundamentally no different with the lies and actions of the Democrats and their accusations towards Republicans and Conservatives. They accuse and condemn R's and Conservatives frequently for doing the same actions that they do.

40 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:05:38am

re: #19 mean Gene

Cool, Islam is learning to use ''the rules" to wipe out the competition.
Well, then that's all right. /

Right up there with Jimmy Carter's Maoist friends embracing democracy so they can get elected in time to rewrite Nepal's constitution.

41 Sharmuta  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:06:08am

re: #32 mean Gene

But its pastor, Olbertina Modesta, says that whenever they try to collect the signatures they need to make the site official, no one wants to sign.

I think it's Christianophobia- or- it could be fear that if members of the ummah sign, they themselves will become targets of the islamists for helping the infidel. Maybe both.

42 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:06:46am

re: #29 Ojoe

Is not life sacred?

Apparently not for them. Only those whose lives are rooted in Islam have a claim to the sacred.

I spent three weeks in Prigen (outside Surabaya) back several years ago. Couldn't leave the compound.

43 pegcity  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:07:35am

Um fuckwad BBC, can the churches even get permits if they apply, im betting no.

But it wouldn't be a BBC story unless you whitewashed islam now would it.

44 Catttt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:07:51am

Apparently the Muslims don't need permits to force Christians to convert to Islam and to forceably remove clitorises.

45 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:07:56am

You see, it is nothing more than concerned citizens worried about the churches having the proper permitting... Then it is totally justified - whatever that means. I know when I see a church here I first wonder if they have the necessary permits....

46 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:07:59am

re: #42 Intrepid

I've read a lot of history and man I don't like where I see this global situation heading.

47 firebreather  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:08:16am

re: #23 Intrepid

I lived in Indo in the late 90s when the Islam-on-Christian violence spiked up big time in the wake of the collapse of the Suharto regime. Thousands of Christians in the Moluccas have been massacred since then by rampaging Muslim terror gangs.

48 The Other Les  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:08:28am

re: #23 Intrepid

Jamal Islamia has been terrorizing Christians in Indonesia for years. I have friends from Ambon province who had to swim for their lives back in the late 90's, when at their church retreat camp, J.I. came calling.

One of their victims is listed in the book "Jesus Freaks", a combo work by dc Talk and Voice of the Martyers, updating "Foxe's Book of Martyrs". His name was Roy, and he was torn limb from limb because he would not deny his faith.

He was 16, I think.

Religion of pieces.

49 Lively  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:09:47am

If conservative is a dirty word, then "deeply conservative" is profane.

"Women's access to healthcare has generally been poor in deeply conservative Afghanistan."

Link

50 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:10:01am

re: #38 Lively

:(

Roy showed what he was made of, though - expressed forgiveness to his tormentors through it all.

Reckon he got the same reaction Stephen got, as told in Acts - a standing Father welcoming him home.

51 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:10:18am

re: #12 Tumulus11

. The official permit costs an arm and a leg.

Who's arm and who's leg?
Better pay now and get ahead before the price goes up.

52 Silhouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:11:06am

re: #49 Lively

If conservative is a dirty word, then "deeply conservative" is profane.

"Women's access to healthcare has generally been poor in deeply conservative Afghanistan."

Link

Come on, in America, the conservatives are more likely to be religious. In Afghanistan, it is the most fanatical religious folks that are the problem.

Ergo, the GOP are like the Taliban.

/LLL mindset

53 rabidsquirrel  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:11:30am
Saipul Abdullah, the head of the FPI in this area, told me that there may be people at the grassroots level who react emotionally.

There is a partial element of truth here. "People at the grassroots level" (i.e. the ummah), do react emotionally, as Islamists have demonstrated time and again - e.g. the mohammed cartoons - that they are incapable of reacting rationally.

54 Lively  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:11:39am

There are some lizards that do not consider themselves to be "Christian."

But make no mistake, if you are born into the West, you ARE a Christian in their eyes.

55 kynna  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:12:07am

So many moonbats have infiltrated the Christian church hierarchy that they turn a complete blind eye to this kind of thing. They are way more supportive of Islamics than they are of decent Christians.

It's appalling what's happening to them, but these people are probably better off spiritually in small, grass roots worship groups. They won't have to answer to idiots like the Archbishop of Canterbury et al and politics won't hinder the Word.

56 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:12:32am

But they wear flowery hijabs.

57 Kefirah  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:13:06am

official permit? do the mosques require permits?

stinks of dhimmitude to me.

58 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:13:38am

re: #40 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Right up there with Jimmy Carter's Maoist friends embracing democracy so they can get elected in time to rewrite Nepal's constitution.

We need to watch that situation carefully. I don't buy into the Maoists' claims of "bringing peace and prosperity" to Nepal.

Maoist dogma hasn't brought peace nor prosperity anywhere it has taken root.

59 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:13:42am

re: #55 kynna

Very much like the very early Church which did in fact change the world, and for the better.

60 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:14:05am

OT and OUTRAGEOUS and THREADWORTHY.

Hamas' newest blood libel: Israel planned the Holocaust to kill handicapped Jews

On April 18, Hamas' al-Aqsa TV televised this show which claimed that Israel planned the Holocaust to kill handicapped Jews. Sickness!

Jewish leaders planned the Holocaust to kill "disabled and handicapped" Jews to avoid having to care for them, according to a Hamas TV educational program. As much of the world prepared to commemorate Yom HaShoah, Holocaust Remembrance Day, Hamas TV presented its latest sinister twist on Holocaust denial.

The Hamas TV educational program, broadcast last week, taught that the murder of Jews in the Holocaust was a Zionist plot with two goals:

1- To eliminate "disabled and handicapped" Jews by sending them to death camps, so they would not be a burden on the future state of Israel.

2- At the same time, the Holocaust served to make "the Jews seem persecuted" so they could "benefit from international sympathy."

Amin Dabur, head of the Palestinian "Center for Strategic Research" explained that "the Israeli Holocaust - the whole thing was a joke, and part of the perfect show that [Zionist leader and future Israeli prime minister] Ben Gurion put on." The "young energetic and able" were sent to Israel, while the handicapped were sent "so there would be a Holocaust."

The following is the transcript,

Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas) April 18 2008

Narrator:

"The disabled and handicapped are a heavy burden on the state," said the terrorist leader, Ben Gurion. [Zionist leader - Israel's first PM]

The Satanic Jews thought up an evil plot [the Holocaust] to be rid of the burden of the disabled and handicapped, in twisted criminal ways.

[Picture: Holocaust death camp, dead bodies]

While they accuse the Nazis or others so the Jews would seem persecuted, and try to benefit from international sympathy. They were the first to invent the methods of evil and oppression."

Amin Dabur, head of the Palestinian "Center for Strategic Research":

"About the Israeli Holocaust, the whole thing was a joke and part of the perfect show that Ben Gurion put on, who focused on strong and energetic youth [for Israel], while the rest- the disabled, the handicapped, and people with special needs, they were sent to [to die]- if it can be proven historically. They were sent [to die] so there would be a holocaust, so Israel could "play" it for world sympathy."

Narrator:
"The alleged numbers of Jews [killed in the Holocaust] were merely for propaganda."

61 ladycatnip  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:14:18am

#51 Kosh's Shadow

re: #12 Tumulus11

The official permit costs an arm and a leg.

Who's arm and who's leg?
Better pay now and get a head before the price goes up.

In dealing with the M.E.'s propensity for chopping off body parts, your post could have quite the double meaning!

62 Kefirah  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:15:18am

re: #60 Ben Hur

tell charles about that one.

WAIT.

wait wait wait...

hamas can do this....but fitna cannot be shown?

my brain just went on holiday.

63 The Other Les  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:15:31am

What I can say is. "Keep it up assholes! Your grandchildren will accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior."

64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:15:37am

re: #58 Intrepid

We need to watch that situation carefully. I don't buy into the Maoists' claims of "bringing peace and prosperity" to Nepal.

Maoist dogma hasn't brought peace nor prosperity anywhere it has taken root.

They've admitted the only reason they went with the elections is so they could get a foothold inside the government.

GOOD JOB JIMMAH!

65 maddogg  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:16:53am

No right to keep and bear arms => no rights.

66 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:17:27am

In this week's Deja Vu Theater;

Palestinians agree Israel truce

Twelve Palestinian factions have agreed to proposals for a truce with Israel, starting in the Gaza Strip, Egypt's state news agency Mena says.

It says the proposed ceasefire will be a "comprehensive, reciprocal and simultaneous truce", and will later be extended to the West Bank.

Fatah and Hamas, the two main rival Palestinian groups, did not attend the talks in the Egyptian capital, Cairo.

67 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:17:39am

re: #54 Lively

There are some lizards that do not consider themselves to be "Christian."

But make no mistake, if you are born into the West, you ARE a Christian in their eyes.

Nope; I'm a Jew, and an Israel-supporting Jew. They'd want to make a video of me admitting that while they cut my head off.

68 pat  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:18:01am

The moderate Islamic Indonesia did exist. Indonesians did not wear the hajib, ate pork, drank prodigiously, and lived side by side with Chinese, Christians, Hindus and Buddhists. The vast majority of Indonesians actually were pagans. This ended in the mid-sixties when Suhharto enlisted the Muslims to fight communist. That ci-incided with oil going big, and the rediscovery of the Saudis of the Indonesian Muslims.

69 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:18:44am

re: #65 maddogg

No right to keep and bear arms => no rights.

and no arms either.

70 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:19:04am

re: #65 maddogg

Of course. Evil people will try to take away the rights of others. Truly evil people are only stopped by force. Force secures freedom.

71 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:19:06am

re: #46 Ojoe

I've read a lot of history and man I don't like where I see this global situation heading.

Southeast Asia's hopes for freedom and democracy remain rooted in Singapore and Thailand, and to a certain extent, the Philippines.

72 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:19:07am
73 Pyrocles  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:19:16am

The "rules" and religion are the same thing in Islam. Islam IS government; a full separation of church and state is impossible in Islam.

74 brakes  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:20:02am
Last November, Pasundan church was attacked by a group of local Muslims.

They threw out the pews and prayer books, and smashed anything else they could - including the cross hanging on the wall.

Ane yet they demand we respect their bloody book.

75 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:20:12am

re: #67 Kosh's Shadow

Love to you from your Christian brother Ojoe

76 Alouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:20:12am

re: #54 Lively

There are some lizards that do not consider themselves to be "Christian."

But make no mistake, if you are born into the West, you ARE a Christian Crusader in their eyes.

Unless you're a Jew Zionist.

77 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:20:14am

re: #60 Ben Hur

OT and OUTRAGEOUS and THREADWORTHY.

Hamas' newest blood libel: Israel planned the Holocaust to kill handicapped Jews

Because, after all, Hamas is claiming Israel is perpetrating a holocaust against the Palis, when it is Hamas that is leading their own people to slaughter themselves with bomb belts, etc.

78 Alouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:20:56am

re: #77 Kosh's Shadow

Because, after all, Hamas is claiming Israel is perpetrating a holocaust against the Palis, when it is Hamas that is leading their own people to slaughter themselves with bomb belts, etc.

And at the same time, they say there was no Holocaust.

79 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:21:01am

re: #47 firebreather

I lived in Indo in the late 90s when the Islam-on-Christian violence spiked up big time in the wake of the collapse of the Suharto regime. Thousands of Christians in the Moluccas have been massacred since then by rampaging Muslim terror gangs.

I expected more violence when Megawatthi couldn't deliver the golden age of prosperity they expected of her. Thankfully I was wrong.

80 looking closely  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:21:49am
Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services.

That says pretty much all you need to know about this situation.

81 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:21:59am

re: #71 Intrepid

My dad served in the Philippines during WW2 and he was a great admirer of the Philippine People.

I'm out of here, got to get some work done.

82 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:22:39am

Here's to the Goons- the hardworking guys who do the grassroots work of every totalitarian movement: the beatings, the riots, the arsons- for little pay and no recognition.

83 Ma Sands  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:23:12am

re: #8 Dianna

Were I these Christians, I'd start thinking about self-defense...


Page 12.....the article by Ron Charles.....it's long, but riveting, at least to me, to the very last word.....

84 maddogg  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:23:31am

re: #82 Peacekeeper

Hear, Hear!

85 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:24:17am

re: #84 maddogg

Hear, Hear!

They'd cut those off too.

86 brakes  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:24:27am

re: #82 Peacekeeper

Here's to the Goons- the hardworking guys who do the grassroots work of every totalitarian movement: the beatings, the riots, the arsons- for little pay and no recognition.

They'll get their recognition, it just won't be what they're expecting.

87 laZardo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:24:47am

re: #71 Intrepid

Malaysia's PM Mahathir was actually pretty maniacal about getting his country to be First World developed in 30 years or so, probably because he was envious of Singapore.

As for democracy where I'm living (i.e. the Philippines,) I'd think it's politics that's keeping even the terrorists here from carrying out the really epic attacks.

88 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:25:00am

re: #78 Alouette

And at the same time, they say there was no Holocaust.

Well actually if you fink one of the linkies from Carl In Jerusalem, Hamas is now claiming that the Holocaust was a Jewish invention facilitated by the Jews to rid themselves of all the handicapped Jews. Jimmah was unavailable for comment.

89 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:25:00am

re: #77 Kosh's Shadow

Because, after all, Hamas is claiming Israel is perpetrating a holocaust against the Palis, when it is Hamas that is leading their own people to slaughter themselves with bomb belts, etc.

Up is down, down is up, good is evil.

90 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:25:08am

re: #75 Ojoe

Love to you from your Christian brother Ojoe

And love to you. Anyone who supports Israel (and you wouldn't be here if you didn't) is good. We can agree to disagree on who the Messiah will be or is.

91 firebreather  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:25:51am

re: #68 pat

Indo is moderate compared to, say, Saudi Arabia, but ethnic Chinese Christians have long been persecuted in Indonesia, with one million or more massacred in the 1960s.

Up to 250,000 Catholics in East Timor also died between 1975-1999 under Muslim Indonesia rule; many were massacred, many were starved, or simply "disappeared." .

The dimensions of the bloodshed are far more religious than political.

92 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:26:10am

re: #90 Kosh's Shadow

Yes and you are our elder brothers in faith

God bless

93 formercorpsman  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:26:24am

It will not end good.

94 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:27:19am

re: #45 coquimbojoe

You see, it is nothing more than concerned citizens worried about the churches having the proper permitting... Then it is totally justified - whatever that means. I know when I see a church here I first wonder if they have the necessary permits....

But don't you get all angry and demand to see their stinkin' licenses?

95 firebreather  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:28:15am

re: #79 Intrepid


Considering where Indo was between 1998-2000, I'm also suprised it hasn't balkanized further or gone completely into the toilet as an anarchic & economic basket case.

96 undhimmicratic  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:28:42am

re: #23 Intrepid

Yes, too true. Baroness Cox's bio Eyewitness to a Broken World devotes a chapter to Indonesia which is blood-chilling. Horrible stories of children brutally cut to pieces for refusing to renounce their Christian faith.

97 CIA Reject  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:29:02am

"Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services."


Read that carefully- especially all you ACLU wankers out there: A permit. A permit from the GOVERNMENT. A PERMIT from the GOVERNMENT that is REQUIRED to hold a religious service.

That is PRECISELY the situation that the establishment clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was meant to PREVENT! Not a manger scene or a Menorah in a public park!

G*d Bless America!

98 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:29:48am

Christians have been tortured and killed by muslims for quite some time. In college, I was in contact with many children who grew up as missionaries kids in parts of Africa and such.

Alot of fear of the muslims because of the things they would do to christians.

99 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:29:55am

" At first it was all good, the program that is. We'd roll into a village, bust into the homes and take what we wanted, raping

100 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:31:04am

re: #98 LanceKates

Christians have been tortured and killed by muslims for quite some time. In college, I was in contact with many children who grew up as missionaries kids in parts of Africa and such.

Alot of fear of the muslims because of the things they would do to christians.

I guess all that has not yet entered into the gospel of Black Liberation Theology?

101 baconeatingkaffir  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:31:20am

What... all that from the "religion of peace" say it isn't so? (*not*) . It never ceases to amaze me the intolerance of these people who expect other faiths to be tolerant of theirs. Then again, my faith wasn't founded by an illiterate pedophile thug gangbanger.
Back after the tsunami hit,I remember reading stuff off the soldiers for the truth website about how the guys delivering humanitarin aid to Indonesia were met by kids wearing Bin-liner tshirts and the rest of the [bigoted word] gear. I still think this is the crap exported by the Fraudis. My daughter's Bosnian fiancee was telling me that since the war for the first time in their history Bosnia had seen female circumcision! What good can come from these countries?
Living in a pseudo secular-islamic country, if they really want to keep it secular they have to be hard on "human rights" in the EU/UN definition. [bigoted word]s who wouldn't hesitate to cut on their daughter's female parts, cut her throat for saying hello to a male neighbor, or blow themselves up for the concept of getting laid have no concept of any humanity.

102 firebreather  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:31:54am

How many little Christian girls will be beheaded by brave Muslim men defending Islam from these undocumented churches?

103 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:32:08am

Given that he uses his childhood there as a qualification, perhaps we should ask Senator Obama to bring some "Change!" to the hearts of Indonesian Islamists and "Hope!" to the Christians there. I wonder how he'd respond to the request. Crickets perhaps.

104 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:32:11am

re: #100 Nevergiveup

I guess all that has not yet entered into the gospel of Black Liberation Theology?

Neither has Jesus.

105 paxnhymn  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:33:10am

re: #60 Ben Hur


wait a minute...first they deny the existence of The Holocaust, now they say it was a plot by the evil Jews...

thay're trying to have it both ways...maybe they need to confer on the script with achmadinnerjacket...

106 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:33:15am

re: #102 firebreather

How many little Christian girls will be beheaded by brave Muslim men defending Islam from these undocumented churches?

Crap... I JUST thought of something:

I wonder if this will be compared to OUR fight against illegal immigration.

"Those conservatives who hate undocumented workers are just like those people who kill christians for being undocumented. Hate is hate!"

107 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:33:24am

re: #104 LanceKates

Neither has Jesus.

Well that's probably only because he had the misfortune of being born Jewish!

108 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:33:59am

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

Given that he uses his childhood there as a qualification, perhaps we should ask Senator Obama to bring some "Change!" to the hearts of Indonesian Islamists and "Hope!" to the Christians there. I wonder how he'd respond to the request. Crickets perhaps.

Nah, just a glare and the slow crunching of a properly toasted waffle.

109 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:34:02am

"..burning and killin them what stood up to us". But then things changed. All that smoke gave me a terrible cough and one night I was smashing a cross across some pews when my back went 'pop' and it has never been right since. I went to the Imam but he just pushed me away saying that Allah would reward me. I can't wait to die and get my rewards because all I got now is this hacking cough and exploded vertebrae."

110 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:34:08am

re: #87 laZardo

Malaysia's PM Mahathir was actually pretty maniacal about getting his country to be First World developed in 30 years or so, probably because he was envious of Singapore.

As for democracy where I'm living (i.e. the Philippines,) I'd think it's politics that's keeping even the terrorists here from carrying out the really epic attacks.

Have you read Lee Kwan Yew's book "From Third World to First: The Singapore Story"? Great read. Not very flattering towards Malaysia, to say the least! Yew kinda paints it as an intense sibling rivalry that Malaysia has never really won, at least after Singapore was forced into statehood. And they won't until they totally secularize their government. Too much Muslim control.

If the P.I. can just get control of that wide-spread systemic corruption, they'll leap and bound towards more prosperity. And if they can keep their president from being assassinated, that'll help.

111 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:34:46am

re: #107 Nevergiveup

Well that's probably only because he had the misfortune of being born Jewish!

Not to them.

To them he was a black man.

Jesus wasn't black. Jesus wasn't a caucasian.

Jesus is a Jew. His mother was a Jew.

112 Ma Sands  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:35:01am

re: #93 formercorpsman

'Pends on what you call "good".....in my Book, it does end well..... :)

113 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:35:29am

re: #105 paxnhymn

wait a minute...first they deny the existence of The Holocaust, now they say it was a plot by the evil Jews...

thay're trying to have it both ways...maybe they need to confer on the script with achmadinnerjacket...

The distance from reality = the level of looniness.

114 firebreather  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:35:41am

re: #101 baconeatingkaffir


I remember the groundswell of donations in the wake of the tsunami; something like 67% of all Americans donated money. Those Muslims in Aceh who received our aid would wish every one of us non-Muslims dead. They would kill us all if they could.

The Muslims in Aceh are the worst of the worst in Indonesia.

115 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:36:48am

re: #89 coquimbojoe

Up is down, down is up, good is evil.

Isaiah 5:20

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
116 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:37:15am

re: #113 debutaunt

The distance from reality = the level of looniness.

Mathmatically:

Lnet= Dreality * Iargument

Where
L= Looniness
D= Distance from
I= Insanity of

117 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:37:17am

re: #95 firebreather

Considering where Indo was between 1998-2000, I'm also suprised it hasn't balkanized further or gone completely into the toilet as an anarchic & economic basket case.

I wonder how far that Bambang fellow's reach is.....must be far and strong.

118 gman  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:37:28am

Here's what it take for a permit:

The Joint Ministerial Decree issued in 1969 and revised in 2006 requires an official permit for any place of worship, but any group applying must have 90 adult members with identification cards, thus excluding small churches such as the of Indonesia Pentecostal Church Kalibaru. In addition, under the decree at least 60 neighbors must give their written consent before an application is made.

I wonder who qualifies as a "neighbor"?

119 laZardo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:37:32am

re: #110 Intrepid

In Malaysia, Islam is the religion of development.

As for the "P.I.," it's doing quite fine for itself (the local leftists are whiny but collectively disorganized), but there's a lot of cynicism going around. Part of the reason I lost my faith in "good and evil" was that our president pardoned her predecessor for capital corruption.

120 MadJadBad  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:37:47am
Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services.


Of course the BBC accepts this lame explaination without any question.
Who issues the permits? Saipul Abdullah, the head of the FPI in this area?
Reminiscent of "I vant to see your papers".

Another reason to thank God I live in the US. (are you listening Michelle Obama?)

121 opnion  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:38:32am

This would never have happened when Barack Hussein was there registered as a Muslim in school.
Why it would have remained a Religion of Peace.
Just look what he did with he cousin Raila in Kenya

122 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:38:37am

re: #67 Kosh's Shadow


You look Amish in your avatar.

Like that scene in Frisco Kid.

123 laZardo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:39:17am

re: #119 laZardo

Here's the link for Islam being Malaysia's "religion of development!"

124 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:39:43am

re: #111 LanceKates

Not to them.

To them he was a black man.

Jesus wasn't black. Jesus wasn't a caucasian.

Jesus is a Jew. His mother was a Jew.

Lance, Lance, Lance...

Jesus was oppressed by the garlic nosed I-talians, therefore he was Black by definition of Identity Politics.

125 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:39:46am

re: #122 Ben Hur

You look Amish in your avatar.

Like that scene in Frisco Kid.

That is one of my wife's and mine favorite movies. Landsman, Landsman!

126 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:40:12am

re: #122 Ben Hur

You look Amish in your avatar.

Like that scene in Frisco Kid.

Hey, Frisco Kid was a friend of mine...

127 paxnhymn  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:40:46am

re: #118 gman

Here's what it take for a permit:

The Joint Ministerial Decree issued in 1969 and revised in 2006 requires an official permit for any place of worship, but any group applying must have 90 adult members with identification cards, thus excluding small churches such as the of Indonesia Pentecostal Church Kalibaru. In addition, under the decree at least 60 neighbors must give their written consent before an application is made.

I wonder who qualifies as a "neighbor"?

there ya go...they make it impossible (90 people!) for a house church to get the permit then track 60 supporting fanilies for future intimidation/indoctrination.

From brown shirts to brown gowns...these assholes are the same throughout history!

128 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:40:49am

re: #124 Kenneth

Lance, Lance, Lance...

Jesus was oppressed by the garlic nosed I-talians, therefore he was Black by definition of Identity Politics.

lol... How silly of me.

(I don't even have a degree in electrical engineering! How dare I even post comments!)

129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:40:51am

re: #124 Kenneth

Lance, Lance, Lance...

Jesus was oppressed by the garlic nosed I-talians, therefore he was Black by definition of Identity Politics.

Was he Black before or after he was Palistinian?

130 firebreather  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:40:54am

re: #106 LanceKates

Hitler loved dogs, and so does Bush. Ergo, Bush is Hitler.

Conservatives in America are religious, as are the Taliban in Afghanistan; ergo, American conservatives are the Taliban.

For the Left, this sort of logic is beyond refutation.

131 gman  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:41:13am

Apparently a petition can also close a church:

After showing the pastor a petition opposing Immanuel Pentecostal Church signed by dozens of villagers – though many of the signatures were forged by village head Achmad Syakir, according to the former leader of the hamlet – the mob entered the church and smashed equipment. They blocked the door with logs and leaves, painting red letters on the wall that read “Sealed by the Community.”

132 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:41:33am

re: #124 Kenneth

Lance, Lance, Lance...

Jesus was oppressed by the garlic nosed I-talians, therefore he was Black by definition of Identity Politics.

Wait. Let's get this straight. Was the Black Jesus oppressed by the garlic nosed I-Ties or the Hooked nosed Jews? Inquiring minds want to know?

133 baconeatingkaffir  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:41:44am

Am I wrong to think that the magic kingdom in some way supports this both directly but moreso indirectly? If you ever get a chance to read 'Alms for the Jihad' I highly recommend it It documents the flow of money from the fraudis to the various parts of the world which seem to be experiencing kornaimal violence. I read it off the jawa report site.

134 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:42:20am

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Palestinians are Black too. All oppressed people are Black.

-that comes straight from the Rev. Wright's mouth, by the way.

135 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:42:28am

re: #122 Ben Hur

You look Amish in your avatar.

Like that scene in Frisco Kid.

(I've told this story at least once before)

Back in 2001 I was sent with three other guys for diversity training in New Jersey. We drove down in a detective car and we're passing through an orthodox Jewish community daily to get from the hotel to the training site. Fourth day in we're passing a schoolyard full of kids in traditional garb and J-- says " There sure are a lot of Amish people in New Jersey". I think he's in management now.

136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:42:34am

re: #132 Nevergiveup

Wait. Let's get this straight. Was the Black Jesus oppressed by the garlic nosed I-Ties or the Hooked nosed Jews? Inquiring minds want to know?

He was oppressed by the I-Talians who worked for the Heebs.

137 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:43:15am

re: #134 Kenneth

Palestinians are Black too. All oppressed people are Black.

-that comes straight from the Rev. Wright's mouth, by the way.

Well doesn't Condi also think that the Palis are the Blacks of the Middle East?

138 Athos  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:43:47am

re: #120 MadJadBad

Michelle appears to be covering her ears and saying, "NYAH NYAH NYAH CAN'T HEAR YOU" over and over again.

139 laZardo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:44:30am

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought he was Palestinian-born, killed by Zionists (not Jews, we're not anti-Semitic!) for standing up against their apartheid rule.

140 gman  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:44:36am

I bet these christians can't even visit one another without drawing the suspicion that they are holding services. It's an Orwellian nightmare where your neighbors are literally Big Brother.

141 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:44:36am

Indonesia is fast on its way to becoming just another third-world islamist shithole.

142 firebreather  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:44:44am

re: #117 Intrepid

I wonder how far that Bambang fellow's reach is.....must be far and strong.

I think Muslim states generally require a "strongman," with harsh centralized rule.

Brutal though he was, Indo had her salad days under Suharto, and he kept the Islamists in line for the most part.

Hopefully, SBY can become a new Suharto, and maybe keep a lid on Jemmah Islamiyah & the burgeoning Muslim terror movement in Indo.

143 paxnhymn  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:45:28am

re: #135 Peacekeeper


dammit man! SPEW DISCLAIMER PLEASE!

/gotta clean this damn keyboard.

:-D

144 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:46:06am

re: #138 Athos

Michelle appears to be covering her ears and saying, "NYAH NYAH NYAH CAN'T HEAR YOU" over and over again.

I seriously doubt that Michelliavelli has any problem with what's going on there.

145 laZardo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:46:09am

re: #142 firebreather

Speaking of Indonesian terrorists, we're still waiting for the DNA test results on our Ten Million Dollar Man...

146 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:46:13am

re: #132 Nevergiveup

An interesting historical point... at first the Jews were Black, back when they were oppressed by the Pharoah. But then the went to the Promised Land, which they stole from the Philistines Palestinians, and that's when the Jews stopped being oppressed Blacks and became "The Man", occupiers & oppressors. Must be when they grew their hooked noses. Anyway they were in cahoots with the garlic nosed I-talians.

/very sarc (just in case you missed it)

147 pat  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:46:18am

Barracks cousin and endorsee, Odinga, is involved in a similarly quiet protest. His Islamic thugs, tribesmen to the BBC, have burned over 100 churches, killed over a thousand people, made homeless another 500,000. They have a nasty habit of gang raping mothers in front of their children and emasculating Christian males in front of crowds forced to watch. i am sure you have read all about it in the NYT.

148 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:46:19am

re: #134 Kenneth

Palestinians are Black too. All oppressed people are Black.

-that comes straight from the Rev. Wright's mouth, by the way.

Sure do hope he yelled it loudly enough for all to hear.

149 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:46:22am

You disgusting ethnic stereotypes? Just watch "The Phantom Menace" for George Lucas' greedy big nosed flying bug slave owner character. Not to mention Jar Jar Binx.

150 Carolyn  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:46:41am

Not playing by the dhimmi rules?

151 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:46:52am

re: #68 pat

The moderate Islamic Indonesia did exist. Indonesians did not wear the hajib, ate pork, drank prodigiously, and lived side by side with Chinese, Christians, Hindus and Buddhists. The vast majority of Indonesians actually were pagans. This ended in the mid-sixties when Suhharto enlisted the Muslims to fight communist. That ci-incided with oil going big, and the rediscovery of the Saudis of the Indonesian Muslims.

It actually started ended earlier than that, Pat. Before the eruption of Krakatau in 1883, the moderate (even slightly animalistic) Islam did exists. Women even went topless in parts of Indonesia. After the eruption and subsequesnt tsunami, Arab missionaries began to show up on their shores.

These Arab missionaries began to radicalize the populace and caused them to attack the Dutch colonial authorities.

Here's an article from the Free Republic about it, and it also refernces the Simon Winchester book about Krakatau.

152 pat  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:46:53am

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

LOL

153 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:47:37am

re: #130 firebreather

Hitler loved dogs, and so does Bush. Ergo, Bush is Hitler.

Conservatives in America are religious, as are the Taliban in Afghanistan; ergo, American conservatives are the Taliban.

For the Left, this sort of logic is beyond refutation.

And we let them set policy.....

154 Terp Mole  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:47:42am

UWisconsin's resident Hamasshole, Wasim Salman today;

By prohibiting American aid and contact with Hamas, the AIPAC is ensuring the Palestinian crisis will never be solved. If the United States were to donate and open resources to the Palestinians in Gaza who reside under Hamas, this would create internal pressure on the Hamas government to change its stance on both Israel and the United States.

If you submit to our blackmail and extortion, then we'll change.

/until they pay the jizya willingly and feel themselves subdued

155 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:47:55am

re: #119 laZardo

In Malaysia, Islam is the religion of development.

As for the "P.I.," it's doing quite fine for itself (the local leftists are whiny but collectively disorganized), but there's a lot of cynicism going around. Part of the reason I lost my faith in "good and evil" was that our president pardoned her predecessor for capital corruption.

Yeah, but come on - he was such a joke from the beginning off his campaign! I was surprised when he was elected (cough cough), but not surprised when Cory Aquino-ism went all upside his head.

Let Erap live out his life as a walking joke and perhaps a reminder to Filipinos not to vote for populists. Better a living symbol than a dead martyr.

156 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:48:26am

re: #149 Peacekeeper

You disgusting ethnic stereotypes? Just watch "The Phantom Menace" for George Lucas' greedy big nosed flying bug slave owner character. Not to mention Jar Jar Binx.

And the Bad Guy was a white male!

157 baconeatingkaffir  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:49:12am

re: #154 Terp Mole

UWisconsin's resident Hamasshole, Wasim Salman today;


If you submit to our blackmail and extortion, then we'll change.

/until they pay the jizya willingly and feel themselves subdued

Hey.... why can't we just trade them Mikky D's hamburgers for their guns?! It works quite well in the inner cities and would definitely solve their famine problem.

158 pat  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:49:36am

re: #151 Honorary Yooper

It actually started ended earlier than that, Pat. Before the eruption of Krakatau in 1883, the moderate (even slightly animalistic) Islam did exists. Women even went topless in parts of Indonesia. After the eruption and subsequesnt tsunami, Arab missionaries began to show up on their shores.

These Arab missionaries began to radicalize the populace and caused them to attack the Dutch colonial authorities.

Here's an article from the

159 Athos  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:50:05am

re: #144 Ward Cleaver

I agree, but did you get the context from #120 that I responded to?

Another reason to thank God I live in the US. (are you listening Michelle Obama?)

Facts and history apparently make little impression on these people....its all in their perception of how it is and how they need to paint it in order to gain power.

160 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:50:17am

re: #151 Honorary Yooper

Let's try those links again, shall we:

'Krakatoa': The Wrath of the Earth and how it turned Indonesia Muslim

161 firebreather  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:51:00am

re: #145 laZardo

Speaking of Indonesian terrorists, we're still waiting for the DNA test results on our Ten Million Dollar Man...

Which terrorist? Hambali or Abu Bakar Bashir?

There are so many, it's hard to keep up with them.

162 paxnhymn  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:51:01am

re: #156 LanceKates

And the Bad Guy was a white male!


I never thought about that. Boy, that was convenient, wasn't it?

163 six-gun-neo-con  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:51:03am

ISLAM AS A SYSTEM
Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.
Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system. Islam has Religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.
Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called "religious rights." When politically
correct and culturally diverse societies agree to "the reasonable" Muslim demands for their "religious rights," they also get the other
components under the table. Here's how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country, they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. They will push for the
introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply (United States).

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate
goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris --
car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam -- Mohammed cartoons).

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20%, expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and church and synagogue burning.

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare.

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60% on, you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels.

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of "Dar-es-Salaam" -- the Islamic House of Peace -- there's supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim.

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%

It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would indicate.

164 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:51:57am

re: #162 paxnhymn

I never thought about that. Boy, that was convenient, wasn't it?

Not to mention that the pawn he, the evil WHITE guy, sacrificed, was black and red (Symbolizing both black people and american indians)

Just as "The Man" uses minorities to do his dirty work for him.

165 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:52:22am

That Jar-Jar Binks, with his olive oil voice and Guinea charm...

166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:52:39am

re: #156 LanceKates

And the Bad Guy was a white male!

But in the original movies, they had to use a Black Guy's voice to scare us.

RACISTS!

167 Nevergiveup  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:53:27am

re: #165 Occasional Reader

That Jar-Jar Binks, with his olive oil voice and Guinea charm...

Be careful or your libel to end up sleeping with a horse's head?

168 gman  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:54:00am

re: #154 Terp Mole

UWisconsin's resident Hamasshole, Wasim Salman today;


If you submit to our blackmail and extortion, then we'll change.

/until they pay the jizya willingly and feel themselves subdued

Remember, always submit beautifully

In this light, the afflictions we meet are signs of Allah’s mercy, as they always lead us back to Him when our heads are lowered in beautiful submission to the Creator to ask him to relieve us of our troubles.
169 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:54:00am

re: #158 pat

I am sure you are right. Indonesia is a huge place. It would take years for religious radicalism to spread. I have books from the 50s showing a very different Indonesia.

And thus it was a different place. The radicalism went more unchecked after the Dutch left the place to the locals.

170 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:54:45am

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

they had to use a Black Guy's voice to scare us.

Worse... now, whenever I think "evil", I have an irresistable urge to buy AT&T services and watch CNN.

171 pat  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:54:54am

re: #163 six-gun-neo-con

Well done chart. And I entirely concur. Texts from 8th century Persia descibe exactly the same thing.

172 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:55:34am

re: #170 Occasional Reader

Worse... now, whenever I think "evil", I have an irresistable urge to buy AT&T services and watch CNN.

E-VEEEEEL!

173 pat  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:55:40am

re: #163 six-gun-neo-con

I have faved you, ie, hit the heart

174 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:55:48am

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But in the original movies, they had to use a Black Guy's voice to scare us.

RACISTS!

OMG Good catch!

175 laZardo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:55:48am

re: #155 Intrepid
I really would not be surprised if he ran again in 2010, ostensibly to "finish his original term" and won. I'm really hoping that "PGMA" just pardoned him so her detractors would lose a lot of support from tapping his base.

/could have been worse...Erap's drinking buddy could have actually won in 2004, and then he died in November, making a TV Newscaster our President.

re: #161 firebreather

Dulmatin the Bali Bomber.

/wonders why a country with a 200+ million population still has people that only go by one name...

176 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:55:59am

re: #163 six-gun-neo-con

Excellent post. Absolutely crucial to understanding what's happening around the world.

Important point: those percentages refer to the national populations. As Muslims tend to congregate in close communities, local population percentages can be much higher. All those effects start to happen on a local level long before the national population is even aware of it. In effect Sharia law is in force in some communities of France and Holland.

177 maddogg  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:56:07am

re: #156 LanceKates

And the Bad Guy was a white male!

So was the good guy.

178 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:56:31am

Darth Vader's voice was that of a black man!

As a Typical White Person, That frightens me!

*SCREAMS*

Quick, Dan, play me some Air Supply!

/ Glenn Beck reference.

179 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:56:46am

re: #177 maddogg

So was the good guy.

You're not supposed to notice that.

180 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:57:02am

re: #177 maddogg

So was the good guy.

But only because he didn't fully get along with the Council (neither did Annie)

They rebelled against the authority, man!

181 laZardo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:57:32am

re: #163 six-gun-neo-con

...Why is Gaza listed separately from Palestine? o_O

182 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:57:48am

re: #178 LanceKates

Darth Vader's voice was that of a black man!

As a Typical White Person, That frightens me!

*SCREAMS*

Quick, Dan, play me some Air Supply!

/ Glenn Beck reference.

I'm all out of love, I'm so lost without you...

183 MandyManners  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:58:04am

re: #163 six-gun-neo-con

Doesn't Afghanistan have one Jew?

184 Silhouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:58:19am

re: #163 six-gun-neo-con

And that is what my sane friends who think that I am over-reacting need to understand. They see the peaceful 1%-type behaviour in America, and think I'm making it up when I warn of a creeping invasion/jihad. And if we let it get to the 10% stage, it may be too late.

185 formercorpsman  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:58:22am

re: #112 Ma Sands

Secular good.

Good in the sense as history has shown us when civilized people stand down against barbarism, the innocent are slaughtered.

Good in the sense as history has shown us when civilized people stand up against barbarism, both innocent and guilty are slaughtered.

Will not end good, because the world has lost it's moral compass.

It is the most populous muslim nation on earth.

With that type of hegemony, and the blatancy of their actions, it can't end good.

186 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:58:22am

re: #182 coquimbojoe

I'm all out of love, I'm so lost without you...

*calms down a bit*

(that is one of the better recurring bits on the Glenn Beck show.)

187 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:58:38am

re: #174 LanceKates

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But in the original movies, they had to use a Black Guy's voice to scare us.

RACISTS!

OMG Good catch!

I have heard... no idea if it's true, but it's a good story anyway... that the guy who physically played Darth V. in the original SW movie read all of the lines, and believed they'd be using his voice. They didnt' tell him they'd be dubbing him over with James Earl Jones. I always picture this as some poor schlub with a Gilbert Godrey voice...

"If only you knew the powah of the dawk side of the Fawce!"

Cut! Okay, that was great, Herb. Wouldn't change a thing... [cough]

188 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:58:40am

re: #181 laZardo

...Why is Gaza listed separately from Palestine? o_O

Because they're differnent ethnicities and dialects?

OOPS!

189 Ma Sands  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:59:03am

re: #163 six-gun-neo-con

Green-hearted that one for future reference........o. mi. goodness.

Sending it to my son, the teacher in an all-Muslim public school in the suburbs here in MN......who needs to hear that......

190 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:00:08am

re: #187 Occasional Reader

I have heard... no idea if it's true, but it's a good story anyway... that the guy who physically played Darth V. in the original SW movie read all of the lines, and believed they'd be using his voice. They didnt' tell him they'd be dubbing him over with James Earl Jones. I always picture this as some poor schlub with a Gilbert Godrey voice...

"If only you knew the powah of the dawk side of the Fawce!"

Cut! Okay, that was great, Herb. Wouldn't change a thing... [cough]


I don't know much about that, but I do know that he read the lines. Though, in Empire Strikes Back, the most famous line was, during shooting, changed to "Luke.... Ben Killed your Father."

The dubover changed it so as to keep it a secret.

191 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:00:10am

re: #187 Occasional Reader

I have heard... no idea if it's true, but it's a good story anyway... that the guy who physically played Darth V. in the original SW movie read all of the lines, and believed they'd be using his voice. They didnt' tell him they'd be dubbing him over with James Earl Jones. I always picture this as some poor schlub with a Gilbert Godrey voice...

"If only you knew the powah of the dawk side of the Fawce!"

Cut! Okay, that was great, Herb. Wouldn't change a thing... [cough]

Mike Tyson syndrome.

192 Ben Hur  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:00:20am
193 Silhouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:00:25am

I still like the Beach Boys, but only their funkier stuff.

/obscure reference alert

194 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:00:32am

re: #187 Occasional Reader

I have heard... no idea if it's true, but it's a good story anyway... that the guy who physically played Darth V. in the original SW movie read all of the lines, and believed they'd be using his voice. They didnt' tell him they'd be dubbing him over with James Earl Jones. I always picture this as some poor schlub with a Gilbert Godrey voice...

"If only you knew the powah of the dawk side of the Fawce!"

Cut! Okay, that was great, Herb. Wouldn't change a thing... [cough]

He was an English body builder. It was the same guy who was in "A Clockwork Orange" as the writer's housekeeper/assistant at the end.

195 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:00:52am

re: #173 pat

I have faved you, ie, hit the heart

Up in the tree, k i s s i n g....

196 laZardo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:01:00am

re: #188 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So it really is an apartheid wall against diversity!

/seriously, it's 1 AM and I'm gonna sleep so I can regain some of my sanity...

197 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:01:03am

re: #186 LanceKates

*calms down a bit*

(that is one of the better recurring bits on the Glenn Beck show.)

I, and my 11 year old boy, like the 'Comrade!?!' bit that he does with the Soviet anthem going on behind him.....

198 maddogg  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:01:14am

re: #180 LanceKates

But only because he didn't fully get along with the Council (neither did Annie)

They rebelled against the authority, man!

An alternate name for the "Empire" in Star Wars, could well have been "The Progressive Alliance" as that is the government the left wingers envision for us, complete with murdering totalitarian Emperor, but hey, the health care was free.......

199 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:01:30am

re: #192 Ben Hur

Pregnant Woman Sees Jesus Image in Ultrasound

That's kind of creepy.

Either Jesus on the Cross, or she's giving birth to a dolphin.

200 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:01:37am

"The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people."
G.K. Chesterton

201 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:01:58am

re: #181 laZardo

...Why is Gaza listed separately from Palestine? o_O

Because they want a 2-state solution.

202 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:02:08am

re: #197 coquimbojoe

I, and my 11 year old boy, like the 'Comrade!?!' bit that he does with the Soviet anthem going on behind him.....

I love that one too.

He really is a funny guy.

203 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:02:30am

re: #192 Ben Hur

Pregnant Woman Sees Jesus Image in Ultrasound

I just see a "T".

204 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:02:37am

re: #192 Ben Hur

Pregnant Woman Sees Jesus Image in Ultrasound

So that's where I left the.....

/NEVERMIND!

205 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:02:50am

re: #192 Ben Hur

Pregnant Woman Sees Jesus Image in Ultrasound

What are you, Killgore Trout's sock puppet?

206 Pyrocles  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:03:24am

Didn't Palpatine even use the line "You're either with me, or against me!" in Episode 1? A slap at Bush the "dictator".

re: #180 LanceKates

But only because he didn't fully get along with the Council (neither did Annie)

They rebelled against the authority, man!

207 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:03:37am
208 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:03:38am

PK, if you love Chesterton so much, why don't you marry him?

209 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:03:42am

re: #198 maddogg

An alternate name for the "Empire" in Star Wars, could well have been "The Progressive Alliance" as that is the government the left wingers envision for us, complete with murdering totalitarian Emperor, but hey, the health care was free.......

Actually, George Lucas said the Empire was supposed to be representing the US government, especially due to the Vietnam war. He later said it was due to US Imperial, pointing at Iraq, afghanistan, etc.

210 looking closely  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:03:46am

re: #183 MandyManners

Doesn't Afghanistan have one Jew?

I'd imagine most of the Jews in Afghanistan consist of members of the American armed forces.

211 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:03:54am

re: #198 maddogg

An alternate name for the "Empire" in Star Wars, could well have been "The Progressive Alliance" as that is the government the left wingers envision for us, complete with murdering totalitarian Emperor, but hey, the health care was free.......

And Darth Hussein Obama telling us that we all have reasons to be angry.
Feel your anger.
Turn to the dark side.

212 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:04:31am

re: #207 Peacekeeper

COMRADES!

Perfect. Play that every time you see Hill or Obama....

213 looking closely  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:04:32am

re: #192 Ben Hur

Pregnant Woman Sees Jesus Image in Ultrasound

Yeah, but I'll bet Mommy is no virgin.

214 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:04:42am

re: #199 LanceKates

That's kind of creepy.

Either Jesus on the Cross, or she's giving birth to a dolphin.

I think it looks like a rolling office chair turned upside down...

Dolphin or office chair - that labor is gonna hurt!

215 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:05:15am

re: #209 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He later said it was due to US Imperial, pointing at Iraq

So we should be getting all that free, looted Iraqi oil any day now, right George?

216 maddogg  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:05:33am

re: #209 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

All liberals suffer from terminal projection syndrome.

217 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:05:36am
218 madisonsfriend  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:05:52am

re: #210 looking closely

I'd imagine most of the Jews in Afghanistan consist of members of the American armed forces.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

219 coquimbojoe  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:05:54am

re: #214 Intrepid

I think it looks like a rolling office chair turned upside down...

Dolphin or office chair - that labor is gonna hurt!

I thought It looked like a chair behind her...

220 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:05:57am

re: #206 Pyrocles

Didn't Palpatine even use the line "You're either with me, or against me!" in Episode 1? A slap at Bush the "dictator".

I don't think he did... In Episode 3, Anakin says to Obi-wan something like "If you're not with me, you're my enemy"

To which Obi-wan replies "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" (Which is, itself, a statement of absolutes.... making Obi-wan either wrong, or a Sith.)

221 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:06:31am

re: #215 Occasional Reader

So we should be getting all that free, looted Iraqi oil any day now, right George?

Shoulda been No Oil For Lima Beans!

222 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:06:32am

re: #219 coquimbojoe

I thought It looked like a chair behind her...

"... if you help me find my car keys, we can DRIVE out!"

-really dumb 8th grade joke

223 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:06:48am

re: #214 Intrepid

I think it looks like a rolling office chair turned upside down...

Dolphin or office chair - that labor is gonna hurt!

Nah, they have good drugs nowdays.

224 madisonsfriend  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:06:57am

re: #221 debutaunt

Shoulda been No Oil For Lima Beans!

I thought it was "Lima Beans for Gas"

225 MandyManners  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:07:08am

re: #210 looking closely

I'd imagine most of the Jews in Afghanistan consist of members of the American armed forces.

I remember reading here a while back a story about the one remaining Jew in Afghanistan.

226 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:07:10am

re: #215 Occasional Reader

So we should be getting all that free, looted Iraqi oil any day now, right George?

YOU don't get it....

I, uh, claimed your share.

227 madisonsfriend  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:07:56am

re: #225 MandyManners

see my post 218

228 pygmalienation  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:08:07am

Kinda OT:
I was wondering when when muslims would start weighing in on the polygamy sect issue in Texas. This article seems sympathetic to the plight of the FLDS group--on the surface. Of course, muslims would persecute these people WAY more than the the State or Federal governments if they became dominant. The bottom line is that the adjudication of this case will probably not bode well for muslims wanting to exercise their "religious rights" for multiple wives here in the U.S. It will be interesting when/if a group of muslims is taken to task for their polygamous practices. This case should set the precedent for handling it when /if it occurs.

229 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:08:09am

re: #219 coquimbojoe

I thought It looked like a chair behind her...

Does anybody who can read ultrasounds see a baby in there? I can hardly pick out the baby parts in a normal ultrasound, much less this "Jesus/Dolphin/Office Chair" one.

230 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:08:15am

re: #224 madisonsfriend

I thought it was "Lima Beans for Gas"

I'm agin' lima beans.

231 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:08:17am

re: #208 Occasional Reader

PK, if you love Chesterton so much, why don't you marry him?

OK, one for you:

“The two most misused words in the entire English vocabulary are love and friendship. A true friend would die for you, so when you start trying to count them on one hand, you don't need any fingers.”


Larry Flynt quotes

232 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:08:41am

Anybody know what he was trying to say?

233 MandyManners  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:09:18am

re: #218 madisonsfriend

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

One tough nut.

234 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:09:33am

re: #212 coquimbojoe

Perfect. Play that every time you see Hill or Obama....

We should keep it handy, comrade.

235 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:09:44am

re: #231 Peacekeeper

Stop trying to distract people from the fact that you're gay for Chesterton.

236 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:09:47am

re: #232 Peacekeeper

Anybody know what he was trying to say?

I will fight to the death for his right to confuse me.

237 maddogg  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:09:58am

re: #231 Peacekeeper


Thats certainly true for Larry Flynt.

238 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:10:06am

re: #235 Occasional Reader

Stop trying to distract people from the fact that you're gay for Chesterton.

you only bring it up because you're jealous.

239 MandyManners  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:10:31am

re: #228 pygmalienation

Kinda OT:
I was wondering when when muslims would start weighing in on the polygamy sect issue in Texas. This article seems sympathetic to the plight of the FLDS group--on the surface. Of course, muslims would persecute these people WAY more than the the State or Federal governments if they became dominant. The bottom line is that the adjudication of this case will probably not bode well for muslims wanting to exercise their "religious rights" for multiple wives here in the U.S. It will be interesting when/if a group of muslims is taken to task for their polygamous practices. This case should set the precedent for handling it when /if it occurs.

I bet CAIR is monitoring it.

240 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:10:48am

I saw God in an ultrasound, it was the beating heart of my two week old son. It changed my life.

241 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:11:11am

re: #238 LanceKates

you only bring it up because you're jealous.

If I were lusting after someone named "Chesterton", she would at least be a porn star.

242 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:11:17am

re: #240 Peacekeeper

Nice!

243 Silhouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:11:35am

re: #214 Intrepid

Dolphin or office chair - that labor is gonna hurt!

I"m thinking that giving birth to a baby dolphin would actually be easy, relative to a baby human.

244 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:11:47am

re: #232 Peacekeeper

Anybody know what he was trying to say?

"Drugs, booze and making books filled with nekkid women pictures sure is a good life".

/dunno?

245 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:11:51am

re: #241 Occasional Reader

If I were lusting after someone named "Chesterton", she would at least be a porn star.

If that's the cover you want to use, that's fine. It is a free country. Unless you're a handgun owner in DC or Chicago.

246 galloping granny  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:11:53am

re: #210 looking closely

I'd imagine most of the Jews in Afghanistan consist of members of the American armed forces.


The last I heard (6 months or so ago) there is just one Jew left in Kabul. There were two, but one died not long before the article was written. Apparently there was a very ancient Jewish community there, but all the rest have either died or left. The one gentleman remained to guard the synagogue.

247 looking closely  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:12:13am

re: #218 madisonsfriend

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Interesting.

Though it likely does prove my point, that Jewish American soldiers in Afghanistan probably constitute the largest group of Jews in the country.

I've heard that Jews have served in the US military in proportionately greater numbers than their percentage of the population in EVERY American conflict since the inception of the nation, (including on BOTH sides of the American civil war!).

/Goddamn warmongering Zionists.

248 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:12:41am
249 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:13:07am

re: #235 Occasional Reader

Stop trying to distract people from the fact that you're gay for Chesterton.


If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Oscar Wilde

250 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:13:07am

re: #243 Silhouette

I"m thinking that giving birth to a baby dolphin would actually be easy, relative to a baby human.

Size may be an issue.

251 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:13:18am

re: #243 Silhouette

I"m thinking that giving birth to a baby dolphin would actually be easy, relative to a baby human.

Fewer elbows, that's for sure.

252 Kenneth  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:13:27am

re: #225 MandyManners

Yeah, there were two, but the had an argument and one left.

253 Intrepid  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:13:36am

re: #243 Silhouette

I"m thinking that giving birth to a baby dolphin would actually be easy, relative to a baby human.

It's the dorsal fins that'll cause the most problems....well, plus the tail.

254 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:14:03am
255 Silhouette  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:14:29am

re: #250 LanceKates

DAMN, I'm taking up smokin'.

/lower birth weight

256 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:14:39am

re: #240 Peacekeeper

I saw God in an ultrasound, it was the beating heart of my two week old son. It changed my life.

Wait, wait, wait... fetal heartbeat at two weeks? Pwned! GAY. FOR. CHESTERTON. Stop denying who you are.

257 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:16:24am

re: #256 Occasional Reader
Hmm, now I have to tell him he doesn't exist?

258 Occasional Reader  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:17:59am

re: #257 Peacekeeper

Hmm, now I have to tell him he doesn't exist?

There was a Star Trek TNG ep in which Picard had to explain to a lady that she didn't exist. As usual, Star Trek has the answers.

259 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:19:41am

re: #258 Occasional Reader

There was a Star Trek TNG ep in which Picard had to explain to a lady that she didn't exist. As usual, Star Trek has the answers.

Douche. Now Lance will feel compelled to identify the episode and post a synopsis.

260 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:20:17am

New disturbing thread, guess I'll move on...

261 hermeneutics  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:20:55am

re: #163 six-gun-neo-con

Great research, 6 Gun!

I have a question for you: Are there any countries in which the population of Muslims is decreasing?

262 looking closely  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:21:17am

re: #247 looking closely

Put differently, there are 27,000 American soldiers in Afghanistan.

If we assume that 0.1% are Jewish, (which is the number quoted by this curiously racist source), that would project as roughly 27 Jews in Afghanistan.

If we use 0.3%, from this better source, that would make 81 Jews in Afghanistan.

263 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:27:02am

re: #255 Silhouette

DAMN, I'm taking up smokin'.

/lower birth weight

I smoke cigars by doctor's orders.

kind of.

Doctor ordered nicotine. Gum is gross, alergic to 'the patch'

Cigs are too expensive.

Now... a nice cigar is a good thing.

I also have a pipe and pipe tobacco. That's a wonderful smell, and very relaxing on the back porch as I surf the net and study.

264 Peacekeeper  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:27:28am

That was a joke, Lance.

265 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:28:02am

re: #258 Occasional Reader

There was a Star Trek TNG ep in which Picard had to explain to a lady that she didn't exist. As usual, Star Trek has the answers.

did it involve the main deflector dish being recallibrated?

(Actually, I remember that episode. Kind of sad.)

266 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:28:27am

re: #259 Peacekeeper

Douche. Now Lance will feel compelled to identify the episode and post a synopsis.

heh. No, but I could!

/ uber-nerd powers, activate!

267 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:34:14am
268 six-gun-neo-con  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:34:25am

#261

I have a question for you: Are there any countries in which the population of Muslims is decreasing?

Not at this time. Islam is on the move around the world.

269 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:35:03am

re: #265 LanceKates

did it involve the main deflector dish being recallibrated?

(Actually, I remember that episode. Kind of sad.)


My favorite TNG episode, but for all the wrong reasons, was the "anti-death penalty" one from the first season. The whole planet is full of peaceful half-naked Aryans because the death penalty is an effective deterrent against crime, writing staff!

270 LanceKates  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:36:54am

re: #269 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

But that's why it is evil!


You can't KILL people! That's like... bad and stuff!

WE have to live together.... in teepees..... paying taxes for the ability to poo in a hole...

doing drugs and having sex with anyone, anything, or anyplace.....

in public...

271 Dad O' Blondes  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:37:52am

Meanwhile, back in the battle for civilization...

...the jihadis continue to debase Christians.

.

272 incanus  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:46:28am

re: #263 LanceKates

I smoke cigars by doctor's orders.

kind of.

Doctor ordered nicotine. Gum is gross, alergic to 'the patch'

Cigs are too expensive.

Now... a nice cigar is a good thing.

I also have a pipe and pipe tobacco. That's a wonderful smell, and very relaxing on the back porch as I surf the net and study.

How do I get a doctor to order nicotine?

273 nyc redneck  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 10:59:16am

the heart break of "moderate" islam.
the reality of creeping evil.
the inevitability of the peaceful inner struggle.

274 CEQAttorney  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 11:26:34am

Here is the irony of this situation.

Once the radical Islamics get rid of Christianity, they'll go after the "moderate" groups.

They already banned a moderate Islamic group. And the so-called religion of peace said that if the Islamic group wasn't banned, they would attack the group's members.

heh

275 Joan Not of Arc  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 11:42:31am
But, he said, this was not about religion. It is about the fact that some churches are not playing by the rules. Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services.

I have no doubt that the BBC swallowed this pig crap whole.
What legitimate country has permits for Christian worship? Had a predominantly Christian country asked for permits from other religions, you can rest assured that the BBC would paint that as repression.

276 Whammo  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 1:48:07pm

"But, he said, this was not about religion. It is about the fact that some churches are not playing by the rules. Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services."

No permit needed to be a 'splody dope though...

277 debutaunt  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 4:41:38pm

re: #272 incanus

How do I get a doctor to order nicotine?

Dr. Marlboro.

278 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 4:57:04pm
Only 20% of the Churches in this province have an official permit to hold religious services

How much you wanna bet that some- if not most- of the 20% of the churches that do have permits are that are being attacked and their parishoners harassed by the FPI?

Do mosques have to undergo the same process, too?
/I think I already know the answer

279 rorschach  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 6:47:07pm

Upon inauguration, Obama must dispatch Jeremiah to Indonesia to set things wright.

280 jenv  Wed, Apr 30, 2008 9:59:00pm

re: #17 Occasional Reader


1) Why do they need permits in the first place?


All non-Muslim houses of worship need permits.


2) Why don't they have permits?


The Islamic government won't issue them, in accordance with Sharia. If a church is destroyed (usually by arson or vandalism) they won't issue a permit to replace it, also in accord with Sharia.

281 Jed  Thu, May 1, 2008 5:56:08am

Churches are being destroyed in Indonesia, Thailand, Iraq, and other countries. What do Christians do? The National Council of Churches USA demonizes Israel and eulogizes Arabs. But God bless evangelical Christian support for Israel.

282 kirkoff  Thu, May 1, 2008 7:44:28am

It is not just Christians being attacked across Indonesia.
The muslim Amadiyah sect is also being marginalized as insufficiently pious.
Much like black on black crime muslims oppressing other muslims equals or exceeds what they have in mind for infidels yet unmet.
Many within muslim families and neighborhoods would no doubt prefer the rule of law to the boot heel of sharia.
Just like in Indonesia and Turkey tho ,religious separatism starts w that innocent "covering" that starts as a head hanky and (as illustrated in #163s, 6 gun neocon's brilliant post above),ends w women
dressed like Darth Vader.
Having found Oriana Falachi thru this site ,I try now to defend western civilization at every opportunity.
A great many very fine opportunity's to do just that exist at the bottom of that #163 list.
Someone plesase point that out to State,or the pentagon.


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