Science -- the death cult!

Ahh science - if only there were some way to clear up my dry, red eyes.

Speaking of nakbas... and awaaayyy we go!

Charles, on my computer the curly quotes and curly apostrophes in your post are showing up as question marks. (Or it is just weird blank spaces doing that?) Anyway, it looks weird.

Yeah, we saw how those apes in 2001 learned to use bones to kill. Science! Evolution!
/sarc

On the other hand, without science and technology, we wouldn't be happy naked savages, we'd be wild animal food.

looks like someone won too much of ben steins money

the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed

The last time a scientist told my relatives what to do, he was saving millions of people with innoculations.

BAH! What has science ever given us?

What is the deal with the backlash against science and technology. Very odd.

Social Darwinism is a hypothesis that competition among all individuals, groups, nations or ideas drives social evolution in human societies. The term is an extension of Charles Darwin's theory of natural selection, where competition between individual organisms drives biological evolutionary change (speciation) through the survival of the fittest.

The term was popularized in 1944 by the American historian Richard Hofstadter, and has generally been used by critics rather than advocates of what the term is supposed to represent.[1]

While the term has been applied to the claim that Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection can be used to understand the social endurance of a nation or country, social Darwinism commonly refers to ideas that predate Darwin's publication of On the Origin of Species. Others whose ideas are given the label include the 18th century clergyman Thomas Malthus, and Darwin's cousin Francis Galton who founded eugenics towards the end of the 19th century.

Some claim that it supports racism on the lines set out by Arthur de Gobineau before Darwin published his theories, which directly contradict Darwin's own work. This classification of social Darwinism constitutes part of the reaction against the Nazi regime and the Holocaust.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #4 zombie

Charles, on my computer the curly quotes and curly apostrophes in
your post are showing up as question marks. (Or it is just weird blank
spaces doing that?) Anyway, it looks weird.

That's science for you.

Just in case.....
you never know..http://www.nitro-pak.com/

the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed

Absolutely appalling.

Uh, Ben? Those guys ordering your relatives into the gas chambers? They weren't scientists.

And by the way, have any of your relatives more recently, say, used modern medicine to prolong their lives?

I'm wondering if Stein isn't suffering from a micro-brain anyeurism or something.

Charles -- weird character problem is now solved. Thanks!

Did you use the dreaded SCIENCE to fix the html?

After seeing this, why is it that I can see Laura Petrie saying, "Oh... Ben..."

Common on now Ben!

Science is not to blame... its the misuse of science that is to blame.

Ha ha ha ha! Look, there's a dwarf in the post below! Ha ha ha ha!

Sorry Ben, science is amoral. It is how people choose to use it that makes it moral or immoral.

kinda puts into question the "intelligent" part of "intelligent design"..... %-)

"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe. "

Zappa

re: #8 song_and_dance_man

Crouch is a gospel merchant.

Now where did I leave my whip of cords?

science leads you to killing people

Woah. That doesn't sound right.

Isn't it science that has led us to this whole global warming hysteria?

Because, we all know that scientists have no biases.

re: #12 Ben Hur

Darwin himself HATED the term "Social Darwinism" which others concocted.

Social Darwinism is a political philosophy. It has nothing to do with science or evolution.

The Nazi "doctors" who worked at the death camps were not scientists either. There were evil mass murderers who had gotten useless degrees from racist universities in Germany.

re: #23 BabbaZee

Babba! I think it's in the Ganjihad Great Hall next to the bong.

Ulululuulluululuulluululuulluululuulluululuullu!

Maybe Stein should have said that this is what man does with science learned? The fact of the matter is that brutal things are done in the name of science. If science is amoral then it requires an outside influence to bring morality into the use of science findings and limitation of what is done in the name of science. If science is amoral and the men/women practicing it give up the concept of a moral arbitrator such as God that leaves only man's opinions to guide science. Man's main tendency is towards selfish desires, ergo an evil use of science or evil actions taken in the name of science.

re: #21 song_and_dance_man

I'm opposed to Darwinism

And I'm opposed to gravity!

re: #25 right wing zephyr

Woah. That doesn't sound right.

true..... it sounds "Wright".

"Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people."

I agree with the first part. The second part is very unscientific.

re: #30 Occasional Reader

ancient bumper sticker There is no gravity. The earth sucks

re: #20 jcm

Sorry Ben, science is amoral. It is how people choose to use it that makes it moral or immoral.

THANK YOU for pointing out what needed to said.

Sometimes the obvious needs to be repeated.

Evolve!

I am Ben.

He is Ben Stein!

It's the April 22 show on this page:

[Link: tbn.org...]

re: #4 zombie

Try a different font, IE7 looks fine on my comp, but when I use firefox a lot of the fonts show a (?).

Thats my guess.

The term "Darwinism" is not objective terminology, it's polemical.

Is it only me, or does anybody else here get the feeling that Stein is about to abandon Judaism? I just have this weird premonition.

re: #27 zombie

The Nazi "doctors" who worked at the death camps were not scientists either. There were evil mass murderers who had gotten useless degrees from racist universities in Germany.

Much like the various "Social Justice" professors and degrees available today. They have no real scholarly merit but are simply tools to push an agenda. I'm sure many of their devotees would love to be running re-education camps. No science involved.

Sad to see him spouting hyperbole like that. True, taken to extremes like the Nazi (and Planned Parenthood) eugenics or the communist 'new man', science can and has been used to horrible ends but to write it off like that is just ignorant.
As is appearing on that boob Crouch's circus of idiocy.

re: #36 Ben Hur

I am Ben.

He is Ben Stein!

Tell that to Killgore Bundy!

re: #28 BulgarWheat

Riff Raff, what would I do without ye?

re: #26 DesertSage

Isn't it science that has led us to this whole global warming hysteria?

Because, we all know that scientists have no biases.

Nope, it was politicians and communist activists that led us to global warming hysteria, science will get us out of it. Science is pretty good at fixing its mistakes. You know the search for truth and all that jazz.

I think Ben Stein should stick to Patriotism. That's all I got to say.

Hey this may come in handy on this thread

This swirling motion has begun, and I can sense that this thread is already starting to circle the drain.

For everyone's sake, I will now step aside and let the fireworks commence with my adding any gunpowder to the conflagration!

Science is amoral....scientists are not.

re: #49 zombie

This swirling motion has begun, and I can sense that this thread is already starting to circle the drain.

For everyone's sake, I will now step aside and let the fireworks commence with my adding any gunpowder to the conflagration!

I plan to keep my cool. These threads can spin way out of control.

I don't see this thread going to 1700.

re: #44 BabbaZee

We're all devolved now............

Well, while i continue to believe that evolution had a causal relation to the holocaust (and especially the t-4 program), saying all science leads to murder is a tad much.

And before everyone howls again over me saying that, i am not saying evolution is to blame for the holocaust. you can cause a thing without being to blame. For instance, Sharon visited the wailing wall, and the second intefada broke out. There is some debate whether his visit was the cause, but even if it was, he is not blameworthy. he was merely visiting the holy site of his faith, and if someone else goes homicidal over it, its their moral failing, not his. Likewise, Lincoln sought election in 1860 knowing it might cause a civil war, and it did indeed cause one. But Lincoln would and indeed did say that this is not blameworthy conduct--the majority should be able to vote for whomever it wants as president and not spark a rebellion. The only limitation is if the president in question was bound and determined to violate the constitution--and that doesn't fit the Lincoln scenario.

Maybe in truth Stein just spoke a little too broadly, as people sometiems do off the cuff. i say, give him a chance to come back from the ledge. but if that's what he means, ben's become an idiotarian.

re: #49 zombie

This swirling motion has begun

Actually, I think everyone's being pretty civil.

So far.

Science is good, people are bad. Scientists are people. Therefor, science is bad.

re: #26 DesertSage

No, it's politics. When scientists get involved in politics they stop doing science.

In small defense, Stein says it is his opinion. He is entitled to it.
I will still buy Visine.

re: #27 zombie

Darwin himself HATED the term "Social Darwinism" which others concocted.

Social Darwinism is a political philosophy. It has nothing to do with science or evolution.

The Nazi "doctors" who worked at the death camps were not scientists either. There were evil mass murderers who had gotten useless degrees from racist universities in Germany.

Great point.

re: #46 The_Vig

Nope, it was politicians and communist activists that led us to global warming hysteria, science will get us out of it. Science is pretty good at fixing its mistakes. You know the search for truth and all that jazz.

And yet we still have scientists...with political biases...who are promoting Man Made Global Warming as a fact. Even before all the facts are in.

Everyone .....fight in Shakespearean!

Otherwise this will read like all the other threads....

Ben has set himself adrift.

Come back, Ben...we need more "Clear Eyes" commercials...

Ben! Ben!

And by the way, if you watch the show you'll see that Stein very explicitly says that "Darwinism" was the main cause of the Third Reich.

Question:

What religion is Ben Stein?

Did he convert?

I think Ben has some genuine points that are quite realistic and valid.
If one interprets his movie to be a blatant attack on evolution then I am not surprised that he would be attacked by that element.
To deny that science has at times gone off the deep end and place "intellectual accomplishment" in a glorified status is total nonsense.
The scientific community has been the greatest opponents to many of the great discoveries of science. Pasteur is just one bold example.
When mankind takes itself too seriously and feels man himself has all the answers then you have the makings of a Holocaust.

re: #61 BabbaZee

can I use pig latin instead?

re: #58 rawmuse

lol

re: #54 A.W.

Well, while i continue to believe that evolution had a causal relation to the holocaust (and especially the t-4 program), saying all science leads to murder is a tad much.

And before everyone howls again over me saying that, i am not saying evolution is to blame for the holocaust. you can cause a thing without being to blame. For instance, Sharon visited the wailing wall, and the second intefada broke out. There is some debate whether his visit was the cause, but even if it was, he is not blameworthy. he was merely visiting the holy site of his faith, and if someone else goes homicidal over it, its their moral failing, not his. Likewise, Lincoln sought election in 1860 knowing it might cause a civil war, and it did indeed cause one. But Lincoln would and indeed did say that this is not blameworthy conduct--the majority should be able to vote for whomever it wants as president and not spark a rebellion. The only limitation is if the president in question was bound and determined to violate the constitution--and that doesn't fit the Lincoln scenario.

Maybe in truth Stein just spoke a little too broadly, as people sometiems do off the cuff. i say, give him a chance to come back from the ledge. but if that's what he means, ben's become an idiotarian.

Run!

re: #58 rawmuse

and watch ferris bueller's day off

re: #66 BulgarWheat

NO!
Thou gleeking whoreson mumble-news!

Nakba nakba!

Who's there?

Genomes!

Genomes who?

Gee, gnomes can't be cured, but midgets can? Science!

re: #61 BabbaZee

Thou art the rudeliest welcome to this world.

re: #60 DesertSage

Scientists are still human. They can still be wrong.

re: #70 BabbaZee

heheheh, ya freakin' killin' me heaaah!

A shame. I hate to hear him say that. It has the feel of 'The Earth is Flat."

re: #61 BabbaZee

re: #70 BabbaZee

Thou cockered pox-marked malcontent!

It's called the "Theory" of Evolution for a reason!

Just kidding!

Kind of.

re: #64 Ben Hur

Question:

What religion is Ben Stein?

Did he convert?

Ben, that's what I'm wondering. I feel like something else is up. I could be wrong.

re: #71 Occasional Reader

Nakba nakba!

Who's there?

Genomes!

Genomes who?

Gee, gnomes can't be cured, but midgets can? Science!

re: #61 BabbaZee

Everyone .....fight in Shakespearean!

I got:
Idol of idiot-worshippers!
Did they have Elizabethan Idol back then?

[Thou art] a fusty nut with no kernel!

re: #61 BabbaZee

Everyone .....fight in Shakespearean!

Otherwise this will read like all the other threads....

Have your way Thou gleeking pottle-deep pigeon-egg!

re: #72 right wing zephyr

Thou currish ill-nurtured bum-bailey!

I guess I was just lucky:
She Blinded Me with Science

re: #60 DesertSage

And yet we still have scientists...with political biases...who are promoting Man Made Global Warming as a fact. Even before all the facts are in.

Sage, what's the fire situation? Is it out?

But by far the best line from the Derbyshire post is where he quotes Voltaire:

Nor can I embark in search of the savages of Canada

HA! Hear that, Kenneth and WriterMom? Voltaire had your number, hosers!

re: #27 zombie

Darwin himself HATED the term "Social Darwinism" which others concocted.

Social Darwinism is a political philosophy. It has nothing to do with science or evolution.

The Nazi "doctors" who worked at the death camps were not scientists either. There were evil mass murderers who had gotten useless degrees from racist universities in Germany.

not really useless Universities

The historical record is clear, as disclosed most recently by University of Oklahoma Professor Stephen Norwood, and corroborated by contemporary accounts in The Crimson and records of the Harvard Student Union. Harvard sought to accord an honorary position to an alumnus who happened to be a top-ranking Nazi propagandist and close friend of Hitler, Ernst F.S. “Putzi” Hanfstaengl ’09, at his class reunion in 1934, after which he thanked Harvard in writing for its “extremely cordial reception.” Later that year, Nazi naval officers, on a visit to Boston harbor, were treated to a banquet benefiting Phillips Brooks House.

Then, after purges of Jewish professors and students had swept German universities in 1936, the Harvard administration sent a delegation to participate in the 550th anniversary celebration of the University of Heidelberg, alongside Joseph Goebbels and Heinrich Himmler. “Should not one be ready to build a scholarly bridge between two nations?” asked Harvard’s then-President James B. Conant ’14 in his autobiography.

Your means are very slender, and your waste is great.

/Henry IV

re: #70 BabbaZee

NO!
Thou gleeking whoreson mumble-news!

Thou fusty common-kissing puttock!

[Thou] appeareth nothing to me but a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.

re: #63 Charles

And by the way, if you watch the show you'll see that Stein very explicitly says that "Darwinism" was the main cause of the Third Reich.

I'm pointing this out because a lot of people tried to defend Stein in the last thread by claiming he wasn't saying this in the film.

re: #89 ploome hineni

Wow!

re: #85 BabbaZee

I would not say such things if I were you! Thou poisonous bunch-back'd toad!

re: #63 Charles

Charles, we here have evolved past whether Ben Stein is right or wrong about the Darwinism/Nazi thing.
I believe that he's wrong, just like most intelligent people.

But the bigger question still remains...did a higher power create the conditions needed for life to begin in the first place?

re: #91 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I cast thee out, thou infectious rampallian wagtail!

re: #61 BabbaZee

Canst thou believe thy living is a life, so stinkingly depending? Go mend, go mend.

I liked Derbyshire's take on this:

[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]

You know... I have to say this:

I don't much agree with the idea of Ben Stein that Evolution is at fault for the Holocaust, though I don't know how much of that intent has been introduced by people who hate the idea of ID or creationism.

However, this is kind of a low blow:

It’s a pity Crouch didn’t invite the Rev. Jeremiah Wright into the studio for a three-way conversation. It would have elevated the tone.

Comparing Stein to an rabidly racist anti-american is just not appropriate.

re: #46 The_Vig

Nope, it was politicians and communist activists that led us to global warming hysteria, science will get us out of it. Science is pretty good at fixing its mistakes. You know the search for truth and all that jazz.

In the modern world, everyone wants to claim their agenda is sanctioned by "science." But as you say, in the long run, honest science will make a mockery of those who abuse its name.
We are right to be sceptical of anyone brandishing "science" in a war of ideas.
The way to fight this is with critical reason, common sense, and ..........science.

Two houses, both of honor and esteem, in fair Verona...

Out of these two great nations, a pair of star-crossed lovers...

One, the son and heir of Faith...the other, the daughter of Reason...

Hey, lizards, we all know how this storry ends, right?

Everyone dies and no one learns anything...kind of like Democrat administrations and foreign policy (but that is another thread...)

re: #95 right wing zephyr

Bah Humbuggery, Thou art most gleeksome vexation.
I am no longer a toad, I have evolved!

re: #98 opnion

..........and the cleaning too!

rotflao!

re: #94 Ward Cleaver

Wow!

amazing isn;t it?

re: #98 opnion

You win the thread

re: #97 BabbaZee

I cast thee out, thou infectious rampallian wagtail!

Would that thou were clean enough to spit on!

re: #87 Ward Cleaver

Sage, what's the fire situation? Is it out?

Yeah, it's pretty much all over. We're safe :')

re: #96 DesertSage

Charles, we here have evolved past whether Ben Stein is right or wrong about the Darwinism/Nazi thing.
I believe that he's wrong, just like most intelligent people.

But the bigger question still remains...did a higher power create the conditions needed for life to begin in the first place?

Have fun with that one.

I nominate that as a topic for a new thread on a different forum.

the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed

Maybe he meant social scientists.

Um.......I got one!

Do you thumb your nose at me?

come on, give him a break
anyone that has this person on his TV show
is not all bad

Science and engineering, saving lives.