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Harris: Our Spineless Media

Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:05:04 am PDT

At Huffington Post, of all places, an excellent article by Sam Harris on Western media’s self-censorship in the face of radical Islamic intimidation: Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks.

And the Washington Post is among the very worst of the cringing media; they’ve given up all pretense of informing the public, and are now engaged in simply hiding the truth.

In a thrillingly ironic turn of events, a shorter version of the very essay you are now reading was originally commissioned by the opinion page of Washington Post and then rejected because it was deemed too critical of Islam. Please note, this essay was destined for the opinion page of the paper, which had solicited my response to the controversy over Wilders’ film. The irony of its rejection seemed entirely lost on the Post, which responded to my subsequent expression of amazement by offering to pay me a “kill fee.” I declined.

223 comments

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1 vxbush  5/07/08 9:08:33 am reply quote

Nice to see acknowledgment of the problem.

2 Windhorse  5/07/08 9:08:48 am reply quote

...."kill fee". Now THAT is irony!

3 MandyManners  5/07/08 9:09:06 am reply quote

"I keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel" you fee?

4 Pyrocles  5/07/08 9:09:47 am reply quote

The Huffington Post? Wow... WTF?

5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  5/07/08 9:10:20 am reply quote

Money quote:

The point is not (and will never be) that some free person spoke, or wrote, or illustrated in such a manner as to inflame the Muslim community. The point is that only the Muslim community is combustible in this way. The controversy over Fitna, like all such controversies, renders one fact about our world especially salient: Muslims appear to be far more concerned about perceived slights to their religion than about the atrocities committed daily in its name. Our accommodation of this psychopathic skewing of priorities has, more and more, taken the form of craven and blinkered acquiescence.

6 Dianna  5/07/08 9:10:21 am reply quote

And on HuffPo? Wow!

We live in an age of wonders.

7 Roger  5/07/08 9:10:28 am reply quote

The failure of the MSM sounds like a business opportunity to me.

8 Diamond Bullet  5/07/08 9:10:37 am reply quote

Something tells me that if the Washington Post had to pay a "kill fee" every time it censored someone, they'd have to switch all their printing presses over to printing $100 bills.

9 g3n3r1c  5/07/08 9:10:45 am reply quote

Hezbollah Terrorizes Beirut--
Heavy Gunfire and use of Rocket Propelled Grenades Reported!

** Hezbollah declares the Lebanese Army an enemy!

** Hezbollah promises to open the gates of hell on the government!

Beirut to the Beltway reported that hooligans on motorcycles are touring Beirut neighborhoods, throwing insults and beating residents. Clashes between Hizbullah/Amal and March 14 supporters erupted in several mixed neighborhoods in the city.

Lebanese soldiers stand by burning tires during a protest in Beirut, Lebanon, Wednesday, May 7, 2008. Hezbollah-led opposition protesters blocked streets in central Beirut and on the road to the international airport Wednesday to enforce an anti-government labor strike that has turned into a showdown between the militant group and Western-backed Prime Minister Fuad Saniora. (AP Photo/Hussein Malla)

Hezbollah leader Nasrallah is scheduled to hold a press conference from his hideout underground tomorrow.

Hezbollah thugs clashed with government supporters and blocked streets in Beirut this morning.
FOX News reported:

10 Cognito  5/07/08 9:11:14 am reply quote

'...responded to my subsequent expression of amazement by offering to pay me a “kill fee.” I declined.'

Very principled stand. Although I'm not sure it wouldn't hurt to take the kill fee and then publish elsewhere, unless the fee came with (very unusually) some sort of rights acquirement.

That way you stick it to 'em twice.

11 Ojoe  5/07/08 9:11:56 am reply quote

Free speech use it or lose it.

I think islam is a dead end street.

By the way, Dante's Inferno has Muhammad in hell, cut in half, and shall we ban that book as 'insensitive'?

12 nikis-knight  5/07/08 9:12:16 am reply quote

I wish newspapers chose articles on the basis of truth and importance, rather than whose feelings will be hurt.

13 stevieray  5/07/08 9:12:18 am reply quote

I like how he correctly defines the problem as "traditional" Islam, not "radical" Islam.

14 ModerateWolverine  5/07/08 9:12:31 am reply quote

I want to say unbelievable...but unfortunately it's not.

15 marwan's daughter  5/07/08 9:13:22 am reply quote

The commenters disagree with him.

16 buzzsawmonkey  5/07/08 9:13:32 am reply quote

It's nice that Harris recognizes the problem. But since he is one of last year's marquee-topping Big Atheist Writers, one has to view his recognition of the problem with a wee grain of salt.

He deserves kudos for not exempting Islam from the contempt and opposition he directs at Western religions; so many of our Western atheists are eager to give Islam a pass on some Rousseau-derived theory of noble savagery that to find a Western atheist taking a pass is cause for getting out the fireworks.

But Harris, if cornered, still would be unwilling--likely, unable--to recognize that part of the fundamental difference between Western society and its civil traditions and Mahdi army seeking to turn those civil traditions against it lies in the difference between the Western religions of Judaism and Christianity and the unrepentantly medieval ideology which was born in the sands of Arabia.

17 realwest  5/07/08 9:14:14 am reply quote

Good morning Charles - great thread to start the day!
Hmmmm Kill fee? I wonder if that..........nevermind.

18 Ringo the Gringo  5/07/08 9:15:01 am reply quote

Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Bruce Bawer and Nick Cohen have been trying for years now to get the message out to the left, that liberals and libertines have the most to loose by capitulating to Islam out of some misguided allegiance to multi-culturalism at all costs.

BTW - Nick Cohen's great book What's Left is finally out in paperback.

19 rcris5  5/07/08 9:15:26 am reply quote

Flying pig moment? Must be close.

20 nikis-knight  5/07/08 9:18:11 am reply quote

re: #16 buzzsawmonkey

oh... that Sam Harris? Well, nevermind. He's speaking truth to moonbats in this case, at least, so more power to him.

21 zmdavid  5/07/08 9:20:02 am reply quote
Our Spineless Media


But not spinless.

22 Ringo the Gringo  5/07/08 9:20:26 am reply quote

re: #20 nikis-knight


Speaking truth to moonbats...I like it.

23 mean Gene  5/07/08 9:20:38 am reply quote

Now, the question is, did the moonbats learn from this?
Obliviousness is their middle name.

24 Ojoe  5/07/08 9:20:38 am reply quote

slow today

25 Canadastani  5/07/08 9:20:54 am reply quote

Harris' comparison of that breakaway Mormon polygamist sect with average everyday Islam is priceless. In short - Islam has polyagamy and child marriage (thus satutory rape) like the sect, but the universally condemned breakaway Mormon sect does not have certain features that Islam has, such as honor killings, female genital mutilation, a death penalty for apostasy, or jail for women who have been raped.

26 Dianna  5/07/08 9:20:59 am reply quote

re: #15 marwan's daughter

That was predictable, I think.

But good for the HuffPo, anyway.

27 paxnhymn  5/07/08 9:21:24 am reply quote

Here's the money line for you myhowmadans out there:

Muslims appear to be far more concerned about perceived slights to their religion than about the atrocities committed daily in its name.

When's that gonna change Al? Is it because y'all really ARE far more concerned about slights to your religion than attrocities against mankind in the name of it, or are you just scared of the radicals in your own ranks? Which is it? The west wants to know! You had damn near a thosand years to sort this out, and I for one wants some friggin' answers!

28 Dianna  5/07/08 9:22:17 am reply quote

re: #16 buzzsawmonkey

It can be argued that Islam caused the dark ages in Europe, which is before the medieval period.

29 MandyManners  5/07/08 9:23:26 am reply quote

re: #21 zmdavid

But not spinless.

Good one!

30 Terp Mole  5/07/08 9:23:40 am reply quote
the very worst of the cringing media

UWisconsin: Kyle "Terrorists Right-to-Kill" Szarzynski explains his "difficult exile" today;

There’s hope yet for social justice

Leftism is an ideology of opposition. Its ultimate value -- human welfare -- doesn’t elicit a lot of honest concern from the ruling ideology (the mainstream), so it can only find its niche in a difficult exile from acceptable thought. It is always criticizing the unacceptable status quo, which in turn unfairly brands it as an ideology of negativity and misguided anger.... there is always resistance. It can take diverse forms -- from Mr. Ellison's writing to the single mother's 10-hour workday to the tactics of freedom fighters branded as terrorists -- all of which share a heroic, if wavering, effort to improve the standard of living within a system that has the means to do so.

"heroic" terrorists... Professor Barrett must be so pleased.

31 akak  5/07/08 9:23:47 am reply quote

#25

yes......arrest and make spectacle of the Islamic polygamists!

32 Ojoe  5/07/08 9:25:17 am reply quote

re: #28 Dianna

The high middle ages were a time of great civilization. The cathedrals were built then. Western civilization regrouped after the middle ages, but its goals were lower.

33 gman  5/07/08 9:25:26 am reply quote

This part stood out to me:

Hirsi Ali has also observed that there is a quasi-racist double-think on display whenever western powers trumpet that "Islam is peace," all the while taking heroic measures to guard against the next occasion when the barbarians run amok in response to a film, cartoon, opera, novel, beauty pageant--or the mere naming of a teddy bear.

There's that soft racism of lower expectations rearing its ugly head again.

Time for whac-A-Mole!

34 Pyrocles  5/07/08 9:26:16 am reply quote

I took a course on Medieval Literature in college, and the instructor was far from PC about the fear that Islam instilled in the hearts of Medieval Europeans. It was a constant dark presence, that was looming to engulf all of Christendom before and after the Crusades. Fear of the fanatatic "Saracen" warrior is common in Medieval writings.

re: #28 Dianna

It can be argued that Islam caused the dark ages in Europe, which is before the medieval period.

35 Shr_Nfr  5/07/08 9:28:03 am reply quote

re: #11 Ojoe

He was in the circle of Schismatics. He was not cut in half per se but rather his front was sliced open from neck to groin. Ali was in the same circle except his head was cleft into two halves attached at the neck. The punishment in Dante's Inferno was symbolic of the sin they committed in life. Schismatics are split in some way to symbolize the splits they did during their lifetime. Of course, dear old Dante had more than a few popes in Hell too, so he was sort of an equal opportunity kind of guy.

36 kynna  5/07/08 9:28:11 am reply quote

Wow. Is this guy getting hammered at HuffPo? I wouldn't be surprised if commenters are ranting at him for his 'racism'.

At least when this guy had it happen to him he finally understood the implications. So many of them try to blame George Bush or LGF or those kwazy Christians.

We'll just see how long his eyes stay opened.

37 Ojoe  5/07/08 9:28:18 am reply quote

re: #34 Pyrocles

Since the middle ages we've invented the airplane, they have invented the suicide vest.

38 solomonpanting  5/07/08 9:28:30 am reply quote
Several Muslim countries blocked YouTube and other video-sharing sites in an effort to keep Wilders' blasphemy Islamists from penetrating the minds of their citizens with sharp objects.
39 Ojoe  5/07/08 9:29:00 am reply quote

re: #35 Shr_Nfr

As I recall Mo gets cut repeatedly, too.

40 kynna  5/07/08 9:29:44 am reply quote

re: #36 kynna

Wow. Is this guy getting hammered at HuffPo? I wouldn't be surprised if commenters are ranting at him for his 'racism'.

At least when this guy had it happen to him he finally understood the implications. So many of them try to blame George Bush or LGF or those kwazy Christians.

We'll just see how long his eyes stay opened.

Oops! I left out Jooooos out of the blame. Sorry! I guess it's such a given I forgot to mention it.

41 alegrias  5/07/08 9:30:42 am reply quote

Good for Arianna Huffington!
Remember she was once a champion debater at the Cambridge Debating Union, or some such group.

Ms. Arianna debated the great William F. Buckley, and respectfully too.

42 CIA Reject  5/07/08 9:30:49 am reply quote

re: #37 Ojoe

Since the middle ages we've invented the airplane, they have invented the suicide vest.

...and they have to steal the parts to build them.

43 Dianna  5/07/08 9:30:54 am reply quote

re: #32 Ojoe

The medieval period's getting much better study the last decade or two, and I'm pleased about it.
re: #34 Pyrocles

They had cause. The current rediscovery of medieval writings, and the better, more colloquial translations, are going to have some interesting implications in the current era.

44 paxnhymn  5/07/08 9:32:17 am reply quote

re: #41 alegrias

Good for Arianna Huffington!
Remember she was once a champion debater at the Cambridge Debating Union, or some such group.

Ms. Arianna debated the great William F. Buckley, and respectfully too.

really. Too bad she can't speak a lick of English...she does a pretty good Zsa Zsa Gabor impersonation, though...

45 Dianna  5/07/08 9:32:29 am reply quote

Must get back to work.

46 Vergeltung  5/07/08 9:32:53 am reply quote

re: #25 Canadastani

Harris' comparison of that breakaway Mormon polygamist sect with average everyday Islam is priceless. In short - Islam has polyagamy and child marriage (thus satutory rape) like the sect, but the universally condemned breakaway Mormon sect does not have certain features that Islam has, such as honor killings, female genital mutilation, a death penalty for apostasy, or jail for women who have been raped.

yeah, I thought that as well. it was a nice way to juxtapose the contradictory standards applied to two similar twisted beliefs.

47 ploome hineni  5/07/08 9:33:21 am reply quote

McGovern folded

POS

48 Ojoe  5/07/08 9:33:28 am reply quote

re: #43 Dianna

A beatific madonna from the middle ages.

BBL got to get to work.

49 Kosh's Shadow  5/07/08 9:33:30 am reply quote

re: #37 Ojoe

Since the middle ages we've invented the airplane, they have invented the suicide vest.

And they have learned to use our inventions against us.
If they want to live in the dark ages, they shouldn't have modern technology.

50 sattv4u2  5/07/08 9:34:43 am reply quote

Washington Post and then rejected because it was deemed too critical of Islam.

51 acwgusa  5/07/08 9:35:03 am reply quote

re: #30 Terp Mole

Wow, is Kyle an idiot. Humanity is not altruistic by nature. We are nasty, individualistic, brutish, and selfish by nature. Anybody who thinks we are shiny happy people is fooling themselves.

52 opnion  5/07/08 9:35:34 am reply quote

History has shown over & over that among other things, Islam is nihilistic.
It only backs down when pushed back. This constant trammeling & pandering only emboldens them & confirms to them the inevitability of the ultimate triumph of Islam.

53 sattv4u2  5/07/08 9:35:50 am reply quote

Washington Post and then rejected because it was deemed too critical of Islam.

In other news,,, the Posts movie section declined to review The Godfather because the movie was "too critical of the Mafia"

54 Thanos  5/07/08 9:36:10 am reply quote

Buzzsaw,
Others would argue that reason drove our constitution as much as religion. Republic is a Latin word, Democracy is Greek. Both words pre-dated Christianity, but not Judaism. The Greeks even had their own version of NATO, it was called the Delian League. That was before the birth of Christ.

55 SummerSong  5/07/08 9:36:11 am reply quote

re: #48 Ojoe

Madonna? With a beard? I see a beard.

56 txcamper  5/07/08 9:36:20 am reply quote

re: #15 marwan's daughter

The commenters disagree with him.

I noticed that. A few acknowledged an excellent essay, then the commenters immediately degenerated into Jew bashing and blaming the US for the whole thing because we're only in it for "the oil."

57 MandyManners  5/07/08 9:36:41 am reply quote

re: #51 acwgusa

Wow, is Kyle an idiot. Humanity is not altruistic by nature. We are nasty, individualistic, brutish, and selfish by nature. Anybody who thinks we are shiny happy people is fooling themselves.

I see we are both.

58 ploome hineni  5/07/08 9:37:13 am reply quote

re: #27 paxnhymn

Here's the money line for you myhowmadans out there:


When's that gonna change Al? Is it because y'all really ARE far more concerned about slights to your religion than attrocities against mankind in the name of it, or are you just scared of the radicals in your own ranks? Which is it? The west wants to know! You had damn near a thosand years to sort this out, and I for one wants some friggin' answers!

we have to keep attention on the ignorance and absurdity of islamic thought and scholarship

like MEMRI does...bringing islamic religious teaching to the attention of the world is a humiliation for muslims

we have to keep it up

59 Carolyn  5/07/08 9:37:44 am reply quote

Sam Harris is a Christianophobe.
/Bible-based God Ackbar

60 J.S.  5/07/08 9:38:08 am reply quote

The press is not only derelict with respect to its reportage on the savagery called "Islam" or terrorist Islamism -- it is also derelict in the political realm. The MSM has failed abysmally in terms, for example, of reporting on presidential hopefuls. Just the other day, on a CNN program, an individual (I don't have her name) mentioned how the press was in a swooning stupor over Obama. She had been absolutely appalled viewing, then reading, the MSM press reports on "the Anointed One." It's disgusting to consider at what lengths the press goes so as to white-wash and glorify the ugly (and it's being done -- not just with "Islam.") With certain parties, it's hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil. When will this end? When will the cringing and fawning stop?

61 acwgusa  5/07/08 9:39:08 am reply quote

re: #57 MandyManners

Ok, I'll agree with that. But Humanity resorts to its base nature before anything else.

62 TalkinKamel  5/07/08 9:39:58 am reply quote

re: #44 paxnhymn

LOL, you should have heard her on the West Coast "John & Ken" radio talk show, back when she was supposedly going to run for governor of California. John Kobylt mopped the floor with her, as she twittered and prattled and chirruped on, in that annoying (and incomprehensible) Zha-Zha accent. It was hilarious.

(I'm proud to say I always disliked La Huffington, even back when she was trying to pass herself off as conservative.)

63 firebreather  5/07/08 9:40:00 am reply quote

The federal govt is little different vis a vis cringing fear of Islam.

In intelligence documents, the words jihad, Islamist, and even terrorist are either no longer used or are strongly discouraged.

Hell, now that Kosovo is independent & churches are being burned in Serbia, I wouldn't be surprised if the White House comes out with a big speech demanding Muslim Uighur independence in Western China & Muslim Kashmiri indepedence from India. Ya know... to demonstrate (yet again) we're super pro-Muslim and all.

64 TalkinKamel  5/07/08 9:40:23 am reply quote

re: #48 Ojoe

Thanks for the beautiful picture.

65 obscured by clouds  5/07/08 9:40:32 am reply quote

If Hussein Obama gets elected *cringe* the media's cover ups of anything Islamic will get completely out of control. PC dhimmitude will rule with an iron fist and it will take decades to undo the damage.

To all you moonbat trolls who are reading this - why do America's enemies desperately want Obama elected? Ever thought about that? Oh wait! I forgot...you don't like this country. God DAMN America!...vote Obama.

66 vxbush  5/07/08 9:41:27 am reply quote

re: #65 obscured by clouds

If Hussein Obama gets elected *cringe* the media's cover ups of anything Islamic will get completely out of control. PC dhimmitude will rule with an iron fist and it will take decades to undo the damage.

To all you moonbat trolls who are reading this - why do America's enemies desperately want Obama elected? Ever thought about that? Oh wait! I forgot...you don't like this country. God DAMN America!...vote Obama.

In their eyes, the only enemy to America is a Republican.

67 Thanos  5/07/08 9:41:41 am reply quote

re: #51 acwgusa

Wow, is Kyle an idiot. Humanity is not altruistic by nature. We are nasty, individualistic, brutish, and selfish by nature. Anybody who thinks we are shiny happy people is fooling themselves.

Who is this we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

68 TalkinKamel  5/07/08 9:41:57 am reply quote

re: #59 Carolyn

Yes. I like this article, and agree with him on many things, but I don't like the contempt he has for religion (not just Islam) in general.

Reading the comments on the HuffPo site is extremely depressing, by the way. I worry about our society.

69 JamesTKirk  5/07/08 9:42:34 am reply quote

re: #8 Diamond Bullet

Something tells me that if the Washington Post had to pay a "kill fee" every time it censored someone, they'd have to switch all their printing presses over to printing $100 bills.

It used to be, during the [Bill] Clinton administration, that they just fired or transferred people to minor Midwestern papers to shut them up. The stories that the WaPo refused to print were "accidentally leaked" to other media like the London Telegraph.

70 paxnhymn  5/07/08 9:43:16 am reply quote

re: #58 ploome hineni


I'd still like to hear one "moderate" (oxymoron) admit that they're scared shitless of the radicals in their ranks. Ya know why we don't hear it? It's because I believe they are not only not scared of it, they secretly advocate this barbarianism, and that there really is No such thing as a "moderate" muslim...

71 itellu3times  5/07/08 9:43:27 am reply quote

re: #28 Dianna

It can be argued that Islam caused the dark ages in Europe, which is before the medieval period.

Oh? But the Roman Empire, especially in the west, had already petrified 400-600AD, and actually Christianity was busy over that period spreading through Europe through pagan areas, at the same time Islam was sweeping North Africa - and earlier Christian communities. Battle of Tours 732, so there was impact in that period and the threat was constant, invasion of Sicily 827, etc. I presume the argument is that the military needs trumped everything, leading to the dark ages? Seems a little thin. If the west lost Roman and Greek learning, I can't see that Islam did it.

72 solomonpanting  5/07/08 9:43:34 am reply quote

OT, but Islamic-related:

Lebanon political conflict turns violent

Looks like Hezbollah's retooling has reached a critical phase.

73 jamsler  5/07/08 9:43:52 am reply quote

This, published at Huffington Post. Wow.

Do I dare to begin to hope that the West is emerging from it's sleep? To unstrap the armor of my pessimism?

Not just yet.

74 JamesTKirk  5/07/08 9:43:57 am reply quote

re: #6 Dianna

And on HuffPo? Wow!
We live in an age of wonders.

Even a broken clock...

re: #15 marwan's daughter

The commenters disagree with him.

Well of course! You expect two miracles?

75 Cygnus  5/07/08 9:44:51 am reply quote

The position of the Muslim community in the face of all provocations seems to be: Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn't, we will kill you.

How true.

I keel you!

76 TalkinKamel  5/07/08 9:44:59 am reply quote

re: #32 Ojoe

Yes, this is kind've off-topic, but it's high time historians did some serious rediscovery of the Middle Ages, and started refuting the idea that it was just a dark and horrible time when nobody bathed, and church prelates horse-whipped helpless peasants through the streets, etc., blah and so forth.

77 David Simon  5/07/08 9:45:14 am reply quote

Such lovely comments from the HuffPo crowd:

Sam Harris claims to be equally against all religions, but in "The End of Faith" he portrays Jews at victims, victims of prejudice and abuse they brought upon themselves with their religion, but victims all the same, and he doesn't even mention Zionism. Has anyone ever seen Sam Harris really criticize Judaism or Zionism?

And how 'bout this one?

You are right. Sam Harris has a selective memory.

He is in the so call "humanist" movement, which tends to be a cover for self-worshiping Zionists. That is why they especially obsess with Arabs and the "Islamic bomb".

They drink the Kool-Aid that being an atheist along makes them morally superior. I"m an atheist and I don"t believe that. They are dangerous bigots.

78 buzzsawmonkey  5/07/08 9:45:34 am reply quote

re: #54 Thanos

Buzzsaw,
Others would argue that reason drove our constitution as much as religion. Republic is a Latin word, Democracy is Greek. Both words pre-dated Christianity, but not Judaism. The Greeks even had their own version of NATO, it was called the Delian League. That was before the birth of Christ.

I wouldn't argue the point that "reason" drove our Constitution as much as religion--for that already gives 50% of the credit to religious underpinnings, including the overt identification of the Puritan-descended colonists with the Israelites.

But "reason" itself, the very Enlightenment, owes its existence to religion--more specifically, to the ideological clashes between Catholicism and Protestantism. That the ideas which undergirded the Enlightenment were expressed for the most part in Classical terms derived from Latin and pre-Christian Greek does not alter this.

79 opnion  5/07/08 9:46:00 am reply quote

re: #65 obscured by clouds

If Hussein Obama gets elected *cringe* the media's cover ups of anything Islamic will get completely out of control. PC dhimmitude will rule with an iron fist and it will take decades to undo the damage.

To all you moonbat trolls who are reading this - why do America's enemies desperately want Obama elected? Ever thought about that? Oh wait! I forgot...you don't like this country. God DAMN America!...vote Obama.

Hey now Barry is going to call a Muslim Summit, so that they can air their concerns. You see he is a master of negotiation.
On the other hand all of you bitter, clinging, gun totin, Bible thumpin, racist, xenephobic,anti trade crackers STFU.

80 pat  5/07/08 9:46:00 am reply quote

The editors fail to understand that to Muslims, appeasement means submission, and merely emboldens the looniest. Thus their appeasement serves to quiet moderate and reform-minded Muslims and radicalize those that seek to dominate.

81 Terp Mole  5/07/08 9:46:08 am reply quote
Wow, is Kyle an idiot.

Kyle's a perfect specimen of Leftism's true believer-- the self-righteous malignant narcissist extremist... what Professor Sowell described in "Vision of the Anointed: Self-Congratulation As a Basis for Social Policy."

82 vxbush  5/07/08 9:46:56 am reply quote

re: #77 David Simon

They drink the Kool-Aid that being an atheist along makes them morally superior. I"m an atheist and I don"t believe that. They are dangerous bigots.

Okay, so he thinks they aren't morally superior to judge, but he can judge them as bigots, even then they are all atheists.

Wow. Just. wow.

83 yma o hyd  5/07/08 9:47:12 am reply quote

re: #70 paxnhymn

I'd still like to hear one "moderate" (oxymoron) admit that they're scared shitless of the radicals in their ranks. Ya know why we don't hear it? It's because I believe they are not only not scared of it, they secretly advocate this barbarianism, and that there really is No such thing as a "moderate" muslim...

You're right there, there is no such thing as a 'moderate' muslim.

Here's a good interview about it:
[Link: frontpagemagazine.com...]

84 Ojoe  5/07/08 9:48:09 am reply quote

re: #55 SummerSong

Medieval beard

85 TalkinKamel  5/07/08 9:48:59 am reply quote

#28 Dianna

Yes, over the past few months, looking at history, I've come to believe that the Islamic invasions did create what we call "The Dark Ages" (though they weren't really as dark as all that), and, in fact, played a large part in shaping the Christian west. (Of course, the Byzantine Empire wasn't quite as moribund as too many modern historians like to portray it. And you must remember that the Middle-East was choc-full of advanced civilizations, such as the Persians, before old Mo happened on the scene. The idea that the Middle East was a wasteland of barbarous, pagan cultures before noble Islam came along and put things right is sheer BS.)

86 Carl in Jerusalem  5/07/08 9:49:18 am reply quote

Good Morning Charles!

Did they shut off the comments?

87 tokyobk  5/07/08 9:49:42 am reply quote

Earthquake in Tokyo

88 TalkinKamel  5/07/08 9:49:51 am reply quote

re: #77 David Simon

Yes, I know. I found most of the comments there extremely depressing----the anti-semetic ones in particular. Good ol' Zha-Zha Arianna, the queen of bigotry.

89 firebreather  5/07/08 9:50:31 am reply quote

re: #83 yma o hyd

You're right there, there is no such thing as a 'moderate' muslim.

Here's a good interview about it:
[Link:

90 Vergeltung  5/07/08 9:50:42 am reply quote

re: #76 TalkinKamel

Yes, this is kind've off-topic, but it's high time historians did some serious rediscovery of the Middle Ages, and started refuting the idea that it was just a dark and horrible time when nobody bathed, and church prelates horse-whipped helpless peasants through the streets, etc., blah and so forth.

yeah, but it's not PC to consider early western Civ, which was essentially early Catholic civ, to be of any value.

91 winston06  5/07/08 9:50:53 am reply quote

I have read his recent book "Letter to a christian nation" and I found it great although it is an onslaught against religion from a Leftist perspective and I am an agnostic myself saying that. It was a refreshing read. He could have attacked Islam more though

92 David Simon  5/07/08 9:52:07 am reply quote

re: #82 vxbush

Okay, so he thinks they aren't morally superior to judge, but he can judge them as bigots, even then they are all atheists.

Wow. Just. wow.

Yes, that passage gets my vote as the most jaw-dropping of all. And if you read through the whole thread, that's really saying something.

93 TalkinKamel  5/07/08 9:52:10 am reply quote

re: #77 David Simon

A lot of these supposedly reasonable, irreligious guys can be downright scary when they start spewing hatred for Jews and "Zionism". . .

94 looking closely  5/07/08 9:52:29 am reply quote

"Kill fee"?

That's one of the wierder terms I've heard in a while.
/Back in the day, I think that was simply called "hush money".

95 sattv4u2  5/07/08 9:52:47 am reply quote

re: #70 paxnhymn

I'd still like to hear one "moderate" (oxymoron) admit that they're scared shitless of the radicals in their ranks. Ya know why we don't hear it? It's because I believe they are not only not scared of it, they secretly advocate this barbarianism, and that there really is No such thing as a "moderate" muslim...

I will have to respecfully disagree. I know "moderate" Islamists, and they are in fact scared shitless of the radicals. They feel powerless as to what to do. To help me understand, they liken it to a law-abiding good citizen being trapped in an inner city ghetto with drugs and crime rampant around them. If they call the cops, they are in danger of retribution. If they try to do something themselves, they are in danger of retribution. Doing work in inner city ghettos ijn my past I found it a chilling analogy

96 Honorary Yooper  5/07/08 9:53:02 am reply quote

re: #87 tokyobk

Earthquake in Tokyo

Yep, right here: Magnitude 6.2 - NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN

97 yochanan  5/07/08 9:53:34 am reply quote

re: #28 Dianna

It can be argued that Islam caused the dark ages in Europe, which is before the medieval period.

the BLACK PLAGUE is credited with it, early islam esp in the early period of the ottoman empire wasn't as backward as todays islmo fascists. The current version is very reactionary.

98 TalkinKamel  5/07/08 9:53:37 am reply quote

re: #90 Vergeltung

I know, I know. . . the Byzantines, and Persians always get short shrift too. (Not to mention the pre-Islamic civilization of North Africa.)

99 Thanos  5/07/08 9:54:36 am reply quote

re: #78 buzzsawmonkey

I wouldn't argue the point that "reason" drove our Constitution as much as religion--for that already gives 50% of the credit to religious underpinnings, including the overt identification of the Puritan-descended colonists with the Israelites.

But "reason" itself, the very Enlightenment, owes its existence to religion--more specifically, to the ideological clashes between Catholicism and Protestantism. That the ideas which undergirded the Enlightenment were expressed for the most part in Classical terms derived from Latin and pre-Christian Greek does not alter this.


Does it now?

An equal argument could be made that rediscovery of Aristotle and other Greek philosophers drove that, but it's lunch, I'm on short break and don't have time to discuss long with you.

Much of Christian philosophy can be traced to Greek and Roman philosophy - indeed if you go through Marcus Aurelius's maxims and change "gods" or "nature" to G-D in a few spots it would sound exactly like something you might hear in a sermon at Church on Sunday. There's a reason that one of Christianity's symbols is a Fish beyond that Jesus was a fisherman. (Gained it's first mass adherents as a slave religion among Greeks, mostly stoic in philosophy -- a philosophy that harmonizes well with Christianity.)

100 maddogg  5/07/08 9:54:44 am reply quote

re: #76 TalkinKamel

Yes, this is kind've off-topic, but it's high time historians did some serious rediscovery of the Middle Ages, and started refuting the idea that it was just a dark and horrible time when nobody bathed, and church prelates horse-whipped helpless peasants through the streets, etc., blah and so forth.


Ahhh, those were the days!:)

101 TalkinKamel  5/07/08 9:54:59 am reply quote

re: #97 yochanan

Hmmmm, I thought the really big epidemic of Black Death reached the west long after the Dark Ages----more during the time of Boccaccio, and the early Italian Renaissance.

102 tokyobk  5/07/08 9:55:04 am reply quote

#96 Honorary

There was an aftershock right after that which was closer to me (right by the Tsukiji Fish Market) than the actual quake.

103 looking closely  5/07/08 9:55:04 am reply quote

re: #95 sattv4u2

I will have to respecfully disagree. I know "moderate" Islamists, and they are in fact scared shitless of the radicals. They feel powerless as to what to do. To help me understand, they liken it to a law-abiding good citizen being trapped in an inner city ghetto with drugs and crime rampant around them. If they call the cops, they are in danger of retribution. If they try to do something themselves, they are in danger of retribution. Doing work in inner city ghettos ijn my past I found it a chilling analogy

Well, I think of this a little bit more like "High noon".

If the moderates are REALLY the majority, and they simply band together, they have nothing to fear.

If they all look out only for themselves, they'll be perpetually screwed.