A Lone Creationist at UC Berkeley
Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:54:02 am PDT
Zomblog has photos of a creationist inspired by Ben Stein’s movie Expelled, bringing Ben’s message to the heathens at UC Berkeley: Here come the pro-Expelled demonstrations.

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Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:54:02 am PDT
Zomblog has photos of a creationist inspired by Ben Stein’s movie Expelled, bringing Ben’s message to the heathens at UC Berkeley: Here come the pro-Expelled demonstrations.

1388 comments
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SemperHunden Wed, May 7, 2008 9:54:43am |
Look at that picture, how the people are just laughing at him.
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MrSilverDragon Wed, May 7, 2008 9:55:29am |
Now I've got the lyrics "One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do..." stuck in my head.
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Venezuela lover Wed, May 7, 2008 9:56:02am |
Meet your maker in under 5 seconds. Does he have gun?
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 9:56:51am |
I wonder how long the 5 seconds guy stood out there. Hours?
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Honorary Yooper Wed, May 7, 2008 9:57:17am |
Well, he's in good company at UC Berkley with all the 9-11 Troofers and global warming fearmongers there.
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Living4Him5534 Wed, May 7, 2008 9:57:47am |
Oh, those wacky Creationists. Don't they know science and reason has already solved everything? They should go back to their holes!
/Creationist
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alegrias Wed, May 7, 2008 9:57:48am |
At least he's not bitter or clinging.
And his sign is grammatically correct and neat and articulate, which is more than I can say for other people's signs.
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TalkinKamel Wed, May 7, 2008 9:57:49am |
Hardly surprising. There's lunacy, and to spare, at U.C. Berkley.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 9:58:10am |
re: #6 Honorary Yooper
Well, he's in good company at UC Berkley with all the 9-11 Troofers and global warming fearmongers there.
Well then, I suppose I would be in good company with them too. :)
Altho I have to say it would be rather odd. ...... lol
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medaura18586 Wed, May 7, 2008 9:58:11am |
Zombie, if you are reading this, know that I responded to your email. I hope you can find it in the big stack you got.
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Ben Hur Wed, May 7, 2008 9:58:18am |
The story behind my presence on the U.C. campus adds another bizarre dimension to the scene. I had gotten a tip that the group “Students for Justice in Palestine” was going to set up a “checkpoint” near Sproul Plaza to force passing students to experience what life is purportedly like in the West Bank — as SJP’s way of marking the “Nakba,” the Arabic word for “catastrophe” that is used in Palestine to describe the founding of Israel. But when I showed up, no faux-checkpoints were to be found — only this table for the Muslim Students Association. I guess I either missed the action, or the whole event had been cancelled.
They wouldn't know what to do because none of them have ever been there.
(and I have manned check points)
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Pater Coop Wed, May 7, 2008 9:59:35am |
Are those 5 seconds measured by man or by God?
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 10:01:33am |
It's also worth noting, he's not advocating for science or proving a theory. He's protesting against atheists.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:01:47am |
He's making three statements here:
1. That he can offer proof in 5 seconds. I doubt that one.
2. That God made the heavens and the earth. No argument there.
3. That Jesus can provide restoration and healing to a soul. Again, no argument from me.
so two out of three IMO
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Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) Wed, May 7, 2008 10:02:17am |
On the postive side, I'm fairly sure he was screaming obscenities and smelled a lot better than the average Berkeley protestor
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solomonpanting Wed, May 7, 2008 10:02:18am |
The story behind my presence on the U.C. campus adds another bizarre dimension to the scene. I had gotten a tip that the group “Students for Justice in Palestine” was going to set up a “checkpoint” near Sproul Plaza to force passing students to experience what life is purportedly like in the West Bank — as SJP’s way of marking the “Nakba,” the Arabic word for “catastrophe” that is used in Palestine to describe the founding of Israel. But when I showed up, no faux-checkpoints were to be found — only this table for the Muslim Students Association. I guess I either missed the action, or the whole event had been cancelled.
A good metaphor for the "catasprophe" suffered by the Palestinians.
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laxmatt1984 Wed, May 7, 2008 10:03:34am |
Usually the 5 second argument is "you are here, therefore god made you". (or some variation of the first cause argument.)
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Pastorius Wed, May 7, 2008 10:04:19am |
Nutty Lone Christian Giving Speeches At University
Breaking: Dog Bites Man
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jamsler Wed, May 7, 2008 10:05:25am |
Here it comes. Time to beat up on the zealot.
But....
If you disagree with him he's not going to behead you.
Activate your IFF, folks!
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:05:52am |
re: #18 buzzsawmonkey
Mama! Glad to see you back! I was worried about you.
PS: No more dog poems, unless you ask for them.
Hi Buzz! I loved your dog poems! I've been busy starting to train my new pup, Cubbie - whom I officially adopted yesterday. Also I've been having a lot of trouble with my hands the last few days - my left hand is totally useless. ack - hard to type :(
How are you doing, my friend ?
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:06:11am |
where's the fossil record of the failed instances of genetic mutations along the way. must be some, no?
(that ought to kick start this thread. mu-wahahah!) :)
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unrealizedviewpoint Wed, May 7, 2008 10:07:06am |
re: #15 mama winger
He's making three statements here:
1. That he can offer proof in 5 seconds. I doubt that one.
2. That God made the heavens and the earth. No argument there.
3. That Jesus can provide restoration and healing to a soul. Again, no argument from me.
so two out of three IMO
His top line request: "give me just five seconds" probably worked well to grab some attention.
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Pastorius Wed, May 7, 2008 10:07:15am |
"Frank Says" is actually on subject for once:
frank says:
The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the tree of knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions. -- Playboy Interview, April 1993
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:08:39am |
re: #26 Pastorius
The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the tree of knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.
Way off target. But that's a whole nuther kettle of fish, eh ? :)
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:09:52am |
Is this really going to be another "Creationists are knuckledraggers" thread?
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:09:56am |
re: #27 mama winger
How are you Mama? Another day, another kick in the teeth.
We were told this was coming.
Oh well. God Bless you!
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FoolsMate Wed, May 7, 2008 10:10:09am |
He's 0 for 3. In baseball we call that a strikeout.
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Living4Him5534 Wed, May 7, 2008 10:10:16am |
re: #26 Pastorius
Wow, yes, that is definitely the very soul of Christianity.
Deep, very deep.
Sometimes I wonder how much separates some conservatives from liberals, because they seem to share they same snide comments and disregard for people of faith... I guess it's the guns, money, and government involvement.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:10:46am |
re: #29 LanceKates
Is this really going to be another "Creationists are knuckledraggers" thread?
No worries. I have nothing to prove.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:11:17am |
re: #33 mama winger
Oh, nor do I. It is just sad to see it coming from all sides.
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Charles Wed, May 7, 2008 10:11:52am |
By the way, there is nothing essentially "Christian" about creationism. The Catholic Church, for example, has specifically renounced creationism (and intelligent design) and stated that Darwin's theory of evolution is not opposed to Christian faith.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:11:52am |
re: #30 BulgarWheat
How are you Mama? Another day, another kick in the teeth.
We were told this was coming.
Oh well. God Bless you!
Hi Bulgar! I am hating my lupus lately - it is robbing me of the use of my hands. Damn that Fall ! :) hehe
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Ma Sands Wed, May 7, 2008 10:11:58am |
re: #23 mama winger
Oh, mama.....I wish I could give you mine --and all my health, too.....
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:12:09am |
re: #29 LanceKates
Is this really going to be another "Creationists are knuckledraggers" thread?
dude that's why I threw out my post above re the fossil record), as some bait. let's see where it goes...
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:12:32am |
re: #36 Charles
By the way, there is nothing essentially "Christian" about creationism. The Catholic Church, for example, has specifically renounced creationism (and intelligent design) and stated that Darwin's theory of evolution is not opposed to Christian faith.
Good for them.
I'll believe as I like.
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FoolsMate Wed, May 7, 2008 10:12:38am |
re: #32 Living4Him5534
You haven't seen snide comments, disregard, and condescension until you've seen the treatment atheists get from evangelists and fundies.
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:13:17am |
re: #37 mama winger
I hope you're feeling better soon! That sucks! I'll include you into the Wheat household prayers for you and your wonderful son tonight!
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:13:22am |
re: #38 Ma Sands
Oh, mama.....I wish I could give you mine --and all my health, too.....
{Ma}
I welcome the suffering. It keeps me humble and dependent.
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Pastorius Wed, May 7, 2008 10:13:33am |
#27 Mama Winger,
Yeah, I'm not saying I agree with Frank. I'm just saying he's on subject.
For the record, it doesn't matter to me whether a person believes in God or not. I'm with Dennis Prager; there are only two types of people, the decent and the indecent.
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:13:45am |
re: #41 FoolsMate
such a heavy burden to bear for not believing anything.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:13:52am |
re: #42 BulgarWheat
I hope you're feeling better soon! That sucks! I'll include you into the Wheat household prayers for you and your wonderful son tonight!
Thank you so much - He and I do appreciate it.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:14:03am |
re: #41 FoolsMate
You haven't seen snide comments, disregard, and condescension until you've seen the treatment atheists get from evangelists and fundies.
Wholly disagree.
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:14:37am |
re: #39 Vergeltung
God doesn't wear a Rolex. Just like time zones, he MAY be on an entirely different time zone. Just a thought....
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opnion Wed, May 7, 2008 10:14:58am |
People of faith should not be mocked & disrespected.
However noone should shove their faith into others faces.
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just another four-letter word Wed, May 7, 2008 10:14:59am |
Look, you can't blame the guy for trying!
And, somebody please tell me why he's a "crackpot"...
JAFLW
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:15:32am |
re: #44 Pastorius
#27 Mama Winger,
I'm with Dennis Prager; there are only two types of people, the decent and the indecent.
Yes.
My son, interestingly enough, is reading a book by Dennis Prager now on anti-semitism for a research paper on anti-semitism and the Lutheran Church. Should be a toe-tapper, as he goes to a Lutheran college/seminary.
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Ma Sands Wed, May 7, 2008 10:15:38am |
re: #43 mama winger
Yeah.....in some ways, I guess it might be easier than internal, too.....
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paxnhymn Wed, May 7, 2008 10:15:58am |
re: #14 Killgore Trout
It's also worth noting, he's not advocating for science or proving a theory. He's protesting against atheists.
no. Actually, That's NOt worth noting...
:-D
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:16:02am |
re: #41 FoolsMate
You've obviously missed some of the earlier threads. It's cool. Not tossing any bombs today or previously.
I'm not going to change anyone's mind today and I understand that.
Have a good day!
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:16:34am |
re: #48 irish rose
Only if you want it to be.
And this is my fault... how?
Are you suggesting that by believing in Creationism, I'm somehow responsible for the inability of people who believe in evolution to insult, degrade and berate me?
It is like dealing with someone who is anti-smoking. They can't stand by and let you do as you wish, they HAVE to tell you why you're wrong and stupid and evil.
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Living4Him5534 Wed, May 7, 2008 10:16:48am |
re: #41 FoolsMate
Yes, every conversation I had in the Marines where I was mocked for my faith I made sure to shed a tear for all the times I saw atheists getting browbeaten... oh wait...
And Charles, just because the Catholic Church does it, doesn't mean that it's A.) good B.) right or C.) in the Bible.
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:17:24am |
re: #55 BabbaZee
Babba! I've missed you today! Damn BIG BUSINESS has been stealing all my LGF time.
WE"RE BEING RIPPED OFF BY BIG BUSINESS!
Heil five!
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unrealizedviewpoint Wed, May 7, 2008 10:17:29am |
re: #52 opnion
People of faith should not be mocked & disrespected.
However noone should shove their faith into others faces.
Can we chat about it though? I promise not to ring your bell.
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Pastorius Wed, May 7, 2008 10:17:30am |
#54 Mama Winger,
I've read Prager on the origin of anti-Semitism. Interestinly enough, that's one subject I do NOT agree with him on.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:17:59am |
re: #64 BulgarWheat
Heil Five!
I'm being ripped off by big tiredness. LOL
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:18:08am |
re: #50 BulgarWheat
God doesn't wear a Rolex. Just like time zones, he MAY be on an entirely different time zone. Just a thought....
eh? you lost me on that one.... :)
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Kirly Wed, May 7, 2008 10:18:11am |
re: #29 LanceKates
Is this really going to be another "Creationists are knuckledraggers" thread?
yeah. is it?
the more threads like these, the more i see many lizards hate me and hate my faith. never a good reason why though as i have never done them any harm.
i guess i'm just sick of those evangelical atheists (thanks to Crusader Rabbit for the term).
whatever. have at it. make fun of the people who believe in God and that He is so onmipotent that He could create everything you percieve and more in the blink of His eye. i'll check in later to see who has decided i'm an idiot/fool/whatever term you prefer for the day.
Just know one thing you nonbelievers... if i'm right, you'll be alone for eternity and i'll be in Heaven with God. if i'm wrong, then i've lived a good life and not harmed you in any way. Make your choice.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:18:24am |
re: #57 buzzsawmonkey
Congratulations on the new pup; what kind is s/he? "Custom blend," or something identifiable?
A mixed bag of lovable floof. I am going to have a DNA rest run on him next week probably. Just to see what I'm up against :)
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irish rose Wed, May 7, 2008 10:18:26am |
re: #60 LanceKates
And this is my fault... how?
Are you suggesting that by believing in Creationism, I'm somehow responsible for the inability of people who believe in evolution to insult, degrade and berate me?
It is like dealing with someone who is anti-smoking. They can't stand by and let you do as you wish, they HAVE to tell you why you're wrong and stupid and evil.
I didn't suggest anything.
Have a nice day.
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jamsler Wed, May 7, 2008 10:18:27am |
re: #41 FoolsMate
Do the evangelists and fundies behead them?
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Roger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:18:30am |
Saying God created the heavens and the earth is not automatically creationsm; it is simple a quote.
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:18:37am |
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Sloatsburgh Wed, May 7, 2008 10:19:13am |
re: #12 Ben Hur
They wouldn't know what to do because none of them have ever been there.
(and I have manned check points)
Will "faux rocket" be falling on the dorms, too?
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Pastorius Wed, May 7, 2008 10:19:17am |
That's ok with me if you don't believe in God. It's not my fault you're going to hell.
///sarc off
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Cognito Wed, May 7, 2008 10:19:27am |
"Five seconds."
Got to admit I'm curious what the fellow has to say.
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:19:39am |
re: #67 BabbaZee
Tiredness sucks. Big OT Tiredness sucks largely!
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:20:29am |
re: #69 Kirly
leaving the eternity question out of it, I'm just annoyed that people who believe in Creation (not all christians do) are belittled by people who do not....
I don't walk up to people who believe in Evolution and say "What a stupid person you are. You're no different than A Troofer or the Terrorists."
And yet, I've had people say that of me. For believing that God Created.
Instead, I am told how stupid I am and how Creationists are always ranting against the good and innocent Evolutionists.
It reminds me of the liberals calling the conservatives racist for not supporting Obama.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:20:37am |
re: #75 buzzsawmonkey
That is too cute for words.
Yeah. I think he was counting on that in order to FORCE me to adopt him. ha
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zombie Wed, May 7, 2008 10:20:51am |
Oh dear, I've got to miss my own thread! I'm leaving in a few minutes. Sorry if anyone has asked me a question -- I'll have to read the comments later!
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:21:13am |
re: #71 irish rose
I didn't suggest anything.
Have a nice day.
No, you did.
You said that it was going to be that kind of thread only if I wanted it to be.
You are suggesting something. Are you going to explain it?
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Phocid Wed, May 7, 2008 10:21:22am |
When I lived in Berkeley there used to be a self-appointed preacher on the campus there called Holy Hubert. It was a tossup whether he was full of the Holy Spirit or just plain crazy. He was there all day in Sproul Plaza yelling about sin and salvation. One day a guy on the roof of a nearby building yells down in a gruff voice, "Hubert! This is your God!" Without missing a beat Hubert yells back, "That's as close to heaven as you're ever gonna get, Sinner!"
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zombie Wed, May 7, 2008 10:21:36am |
re: #5 Killgore Trout
I wonder how long the 5 seconds guy stood out there. Hours?
All day.
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yma o hyd Wed, May 7, 2008 10:21:38am |
re: #70 mama winger
A mixed bag of lovable floof. I am going to have a DNA rest run on him next week probably. Just to see what I'm up against :)
I'd guess there is Wheaten Terrier and Bearded Collie in him.
Would be very interested to hear that DNA test result.
Did I say he looks absolutely adorable and cuddlesom?
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:21:39am |
re: #80 buzzsawmonkey
And if they put a "Carbon Dating Game" on TV, I vow that I will not watch it.
I might watch Naked Carbon Dating.
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FoolsMate Wed, May 7, 2008 10:21:45am |
re: #59 BulgarWheat
I am speaking in general, not necessarily about LGF.
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FunkMachine Wed, May 7, 2008 10:21:54am |
Creationists - being unintentionally funny since year zero.
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opnion Wed, May 7, 2008 10:22:21am |
re: #65 unrealizedviewpoint
Can we chat about it though? I promise not to ring your bell.
Of course. What bI am saying is that holding up mreligious signs generally makes one look like a crackpot.'
Pursuing a religious conversation on an unwilling person is palinly rude & demanded by no god.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:22:35am |
re: #89 yma o hyd
I'd guess there is Wheaten Terrier and Bearded Collie in him.
Would be very interested to hear that DNA test result.Did I say he looks absolutely adorable and cuddlesom?
WOW - That's exactluy what I thought too - Wheaten Terrier mix!
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Honorary Yooper Wed, May 7, 2008 10:22:44am |
re: #36 Charles
By the way, there is nothing essentially "Christian" about creationism. The Catholic Church, for example, has specifically renounced creationism (and intelligent design) and stated that Darwin's theory of evolution is not opposed to Christian faith.
Exactly, Charles. That's one of the reasons this whole "debate" is nuts.
Folks, only one side of this has ever tried making the teaching of the other illegal. And failing that, they ask for "equal time". It smacks of liberalism if you ask me. How different is asking for equal time for this from the so-called fairness doctrine? How different is it from the politicians and zealots who make anything contradicting global warming/climate change illegal?
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:23:36am |
re: #85 BabbaZee
This week on
"I know you are, but what am I..."
Hey Babba!
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paxnhymn Wed, May 7, 2008 10:23:49am |
re: #87 Phocid
When I lived in Berkeley there used to be a self-appointed preacher on the campus there called Holy Hubert. It was a tossup whether he was full of the Holy Spirit or just plain crazy. He was there all day in Sproul Plaza yelling about sin and salvation. One day a guy on the roof of a nearby building yells down in a gruff voice, "Hubert! This is your God!" Without missing a beat Hubert yells back, "That's as close to heaven as you're ever gonna get, Sinner!"
my scale for folks (town cryers) like that are to weigh who they've saved against who they've driven farther away from the faith. They results are always negative...it doesn't work.
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irish rose Wed, May 7, 2008 10:24:00am |
re: #86 LanceKates
I think you're spoiling for a fight, big time.
I'm not interested.
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zombie Wed, May 7, 2008 10:24:03am |
re: #6 Honorary Yooper
Well, he's in good company at UC Berkley with all the 9-11 Troofers and global warming fearmongers there.
Great point!
Like I said at the bottom of the report,
There are many aspects of the left-wing bias in Berkeley’s liberal arts departments that merit criticism — but insisting that the school’s world-class science departments abandon their fundamental principles is the wrong way to confront the problem.
I don't mind their Global Warming hysteria because it's inspiring the scientists at Lawrence Berkeley Lab to develop alternative energy sources that will wean us off of Saudi Oil. A good side effect of a demented popular delusion!
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 10:24:29am |
re: #85 BabbaZee
This week on
"I know you are, but what am I..."
LOL!
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:24:46am |
re: #88 zombie
All day.
I'm fairly certain he had no other appointments LOL
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zombie Wed, May 7, 2008 10:25:06am |
re: #11 medaura18586
Zombie, if you are reading this, know that I responded to your email. I hope you can find it in the big stack you got.
I got it! Expect a reply within a month at the most! (Only 1,500 emails in line ahead of you!)
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:25:07am |
re: #104 BabbaZee
Hey!
I am hand impaired. How are you ?
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 10:25:12am |
re: #97 Honorary Yooper
It smacks of liberalism if you ask me. How different is asking for equal time for this from the so-called fairness doctrine?
Exactly, that's why Ben Stein is such an unlikely spokesman. Socialism has no place in the free market of ideas.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:25:16am |
re: #101 irish rose
I think you're spoiling for a fight, big time.
I'm not interested.
Nope. Just asking what you meant.
What was it you meant?
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Alouette Wed, May 7, 2008 10:25:19am |
re: #12 Ben Hur
(and I have manned check points)
You sexist pig! What about the female soldiers? Do they woman checkpoints? You should have said that you personed checkpoints.
/feminist moonbat
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Charles Wed, May 7, 2008 10:25:26am |
re: #82 LanceKates
leaving the eternity question out of it, I'm just annoyed that people who believe in Creation (not all christians do) are belittled by people who do not....
I don't walk up to people who believe in Evolution and say "What a stupid person you are. You're no different than A Troofer or the Terrorists."
And yet, I've had people say that of me. For believing that God Created.
Instead, I am told how stupid I am and how Creationists are always ranting against the good and innocent Evolutionists.
It reminds me of the liberals calling the conservatives racist for not supporting Obama.
I haven't seen one person call creationists "stupid" in this thread. It would be nice if the discussion could take place without thin-skinned exaggeration.
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:26:19am |
re: #74 BulgarWheat
carbon dating, freaking carbon dating.
just sayin'
oh, heh. No, I'm not a creationist. I just find the current discussion about ID/Evolution to parrallel the discussion re Gorebull Wormening; that the "discussion is over" and that the "science is settled" when, clearly, it is not.
one of the mjor flaws of Darwinism is it's inability to explain the infintessimal odds of developing complex organs (a bee's eye, etc) by random chance mutation. further, as I asked above, where is the fossil record of the failed mutations, and the specimems/species that died out due to faield mutations. why is there only a progressive fossil record. I've simplified it here for the sake of brevity and space, but I think you know what I mean. :)
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dachew Wed, May 7, 2008 10:26:20am |
Creationist: I can prove that God created the heavens and the earth in five seconds.
Me: Fine. On your mark, get set, go.
Creationist: Wow! Check out that chick's rack.
Me: Holy Christ!
Creationist: There you go.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:26:24am |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
Socialism has no place in the free market of ideas.
Huh ? that doesn't make sense.
How is it a 'free market of ideas' if something can't be discussed?
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FoolsMate Wed, May 7, 2008 10:26:28am |
re: #72 jamsler
Do the evangelists and fundies behead them?
In the good ole days.
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yma o hyd Wed, May 7, 2008 10:26:50am |
re: #96 mama winger
WOW - That's exactluy what I thought too - Wheaten Terrier mix!
GMTA!
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:27:22am |
re: #108 mama winger
I am hand impaired. How are you ?
lololololol
It is easier to list what it not impaired
and I plan on working on that
commencing now
LOL
SMOKE!
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:27:34am |
re: #112 Charles
I haven't seen one person call creationists "stupid" in this thread. It would be nice if the discussion could take place without thin-skinned exaggeration.
You did read the Ben Stein thread, so I know that you are aware of what I am talking about.
But, if you want to limit it to this thread, there is this comment:
re: #6 Honorary Yooper
Well, he's in good company at UC Berkley with all the 9-11 Troofers and global warming fearmongers there.
Offense at being compared to Troofers is a thin-skinned exaggeration? (Keeping in mind that we've also, in the Lizard Lounge, been compared to islamic terrorists.)
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Tigger2005 Wed, May 7, 2008 10:27:39am |
What a ridiculous comment on that sign. Scientists--cosmologists and physicists in particular--think about where everything came from all the time, as this guy would know if he bothered to learn anything about science. They have several hypotheses that they are working on.
I might respond, "It's easy to be a believer if you don't think about where God came from." Of course, I would then be told that God has always existed, that God didn't "come from" anything. And if I asked for an explanation, I wouldn't get one. "It's about faith and belief," I would be told. But scientists don't get this out when it comes to explaining where the universe came from, nor do they want it. They're curious and will keep working the problem.
Even so, thousands of scientists still believe in God, and will continue to believe even if physicists demonstrate how "something" can come out of "nothing" naturally and spontaneously. Because scientists still would not have demonstrated whether or not God exists. That's a task that's beyond the scope of science.
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zmdavid Wed, May 7, 2008 10:27:40am |
re: #80 buzzsawmonkey
Look, I may have to deal with the "carbon credit" BS, but I bloody well draw the line at carbon dating.
And if they put a "Carbon Dating Game" on TV, I vow that I will not watch it.
Diamonds are a girl's best friend?
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zombie Wed, May 7, 2008 10:27:45am |
re: #24 Vergeltung
where's the fossil record of the failed instances of genetic mutations along the way. must be some, no?
Every species is a "transitional" species.
Including us.
There is no "end point," no "perfect" animal that stops evolving.
Thus every fossil ever found fits your requirements.
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Roger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:27:52am |
re: #107 zombie
I got it! Expect a reply within a month at the most! (Only 1,500 emails in line ahead of you!)
Zombie? You may want to set up some email filters to sort all that out. Have multiple named inboxes with people filling into them the way you prefer. I usually use the original inbox as the junk one.
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CyanSnowHawk Wed, May 7, 2008 10:27:56am |
re: #111 Alouette
You sexist pig! What about the female soldiers? Do they woman checkpoints? You should have said that you personed checkpoints.
/feminist moonbat
No, they decorate checkpoints, and frankly, doilies are just a little impractical on lift gates.
/Ducks and dives for cover.
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looking closely Wed, May 7, 2008 10:28:05am |
re: #36 Charles
By the way, there is nothing essentially "Christian" about creationism. The Catholic Church, for example, has specifically renounced creationism (and intelligent design) and stated that Darwin's theory of evolution is not opposed to Christian faith.
Indeed.
Many (if not most) other religions have their own form of Creationism.
Also, there is absolutely NO contradiction between the theory of evolution (in general, see below) and the idea of a "Creator" that started the ball rolling, so to speak.
To repeat, the theory of evolution says, in a nutshell, that environmental pressures can cause heritable changes in POPULATIONS. It says nothing specifically about the origin of man, which is the hangup that causes most angst between nominal creationists and evolutionists.
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 10:28:10am |
re: #113 Vergeltung
one of the mjor flaws of Darwinism is it's inability to explain the infintessimal odds of developing complex organs (a bee's eye, etc) by random chance mutation
Evolution is not random. You guys need to update your talking points. They are too easily debunked.
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:28:25am |
re: #113 Vergeltung
Thanks. That's a nice summation and I actually respect where you come from.
All good with me.
I got my path, you've got yours.
All's well that ends well.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:28:30am |
re: #112 Charles
I haven't seen one person call creationists "stupid" in this thread. It would be nice if the discussion could take place without thin-skinned exaggeration.
But creationists were put on the same level as 9-11 troofers.
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Charles Wed, May 7, 2008 10:29:08am |
re: #119 LanceKates
Offense at being compared to Troofers is a thin-skinned exaggeration? (Keeping in mind that we've also, in the Lizard Lounge, been compared to islamic terrorists.)
So, to be clear, you're asking for special hands-off treatment?
Good luck with that approach at LGF.
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Milk Toast Intolerant Wed, May 7, 2008 10:29:35am |
Not too long ago, many scientific minds believed the Earth was flat. Science changes all the time, so I think it's too soon to say that evolution is right and creationism is wrong.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, May 7, 2008 10:29:49am |
re: #115 mama winger
Huh ? that doesn't make sense.
How is it a 'free market of ideas' if something can't be discussed?
The reason why ID isn't discussed seriously in scientific circles is that there is no evidence for it. If you bring supernatural explanations into scientific inquiry, then it ceases to be scientific inquiry.
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looking closely Wed, May 7, 2008 10:30:33am |
re: #122 zombie
Every species is a "transitional" species.
Including us.
There is no "end point," no "perfect" animal that stops evolving.
Thus every fossil ever found fits your requirements.
The overwhelming majority of organisms don't leave a fossil record, so lack of a particular one doesn't really constitute proof or disproof of anything.
eg: Just because nobody can show you the grave of my great-great-great-great-grandfather, doesn't mean I don't have one.
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zombie Wed, May 7, 2008 10:30:40am |
OK, I read up through comment #24. Now I'm late!
Please keep the fisticuffs to a reasonable level.
Gotta run.
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:30:46am |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
Exactly, that's why Ben Stein is such an unlikely spokesman. Socialism has no place in the free market of ideas.
it's not a free market in education. in modern liberal-arts education in the US, it's indocrination, not education. all sides are not presented. usually, only one side is presented by a moonbat professor/teacher.
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Ma Sands Wed, May 7, 2008 10:30:55am |
re: #129 mama winger
And stupid & much more, was in more than one, more than two, etc., other threads on the subject..... :)
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:31:24am |
re: #133 Honorary Yooper
The reason why ID isn't discussed seriously in scientific circles is that there is no evidence for it. If you bring supernatural explanations into scientific inquiry, then it ceases to be scientific inquiry.
I understand that point. I do - I may not agree with it but I understand it. What I was referring to was Killgore's statement that Socialism has no place in the free market of ideas.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:31:36am |
re: #131 Charles
So, to be clear, you're asking for special hands-off treatment?
Good luck with that approach at LGF.
I'm not asking for anything. Just clarifying your statement about insults directed at Creationists existing, even within this thread.
I don't care if they rip on creationists, but it ought to be fair game to point out and address such insults.
Especially when others are making a strong point about the creationists (calling them 'fundies') being the degrading ones.
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Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) Wed, May 7, 2008 10:31:50am |
re: #113 Vergeltung
oh, heh. No, I'm not a creationist. I just find the current discussion about ID/Evolution to parrallel the discussion re Gorebull Wormening; that the "discussion is over" and that the "science is settled" when, clearly, it is not.
one of the mjor flaws of Darwinism is it's inability to explain the infintessimal odds of developing complex organs (a bee's eye, etc) by random chance mutation. further, as I asked above, where is the fossil record of the failed mutations, and the specimems/species that died out due to faield mutations. why is there only a progressive fossil record. I've simplified it here for the sake of brevity and space, but I think you know what I mean. :)
As far as the fossil record goes, I would venture it comes down to the law of averages. The stable species would be more numerous while the failed mutations would have significantly smaller chance of being present. Now add to this the percentage of the creatures which actually became fossilized and it lowers the likelihood of finding a so called failed mutation to begin with. On the flip side, given the rarity of some fossil species, how can we be sure they weren't failed and we are making false assumptions of their viability.
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paxnhymn Wed, May 7, 2008 10:32:14am |
re: #112 Charles
I haven't seen one person call creationists "stupid" in this thread. It would be nice if the discussion could take place without thin-skinned exaggeration.
Actually, the whole antagonist-protagonist thing is quite silly> I'm an evangelical. God created. He may have used evolution as a template. No biggy. I see No reason why God couldn't have put things into motion in a gradual "simmering' fashion. Does that invalidate Genesis. Nope. If God would have told Moses that he came from an evolving mass of DNA ribbon, his response would've been a "Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?" Kinda response. Knowledge is revealed as we progress. as we stretch ourselves out of our zone of comfort. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. It gets tedious listening to the banter.
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 10:32:32am |
re: #115 mama winger
How is it a 'free market of ideas' if something can't be discussed?
To follow the analogy; Creation science is a failed business. It went bankrupt generations ago. Why should it be propped up by subsidies and allowed to operate like a Fortune 500 company? They can start from scratch anytime (like they tried with ID) and compete on a level playing field. Despite what Stein tells us, the playing field is level and fair. Ideas should be allowed to succeed or fail in a free market. Failed ideas should be discarded, it does us no good to keep them around.
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Cognito Wed, May 7, 2008 10:32:37am |
re: #131 Charles
So, to be clear, you're asking for special hands-off treatment?
Good luck with that approach at LGF.
I didn't read it that way, Charles. I think he's asking for mere fairness.
Everybody deserves skepticism; comparisons to low-lifes are a bit harder to take.
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mikalm Wed, May 7, 2008 10:32:49am |
re: #100 paxnhymn
my scale for folks (town cryers) like that are to weigh who they've saved against who they've driven farther away from the faith. They results are always negative...it doesn't work.
I credit the inimitable "Brother Jed" Smock, as well as the hatemonger Jack Chick, with turning me off to the Good News until I was in my mid-30s. Confrontational evangelism seems to only reach the people who themselves want to be noisy, self-righteous bullies in the name of faith.
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Charles Wed, May 7, 2008 10:33:21am |
If you'd rather complain about insults than contribute to the discussion, that's your choice.
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 10:33:30am |
re: #130 Roger
I think it's slowly getting better, but it is frustrating.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:33:54am |
re: #149 Charles
If you'd rather complain about insults than contribute to the discussion, that's your choice.
What kind of contribution on a thread about a Creationist protestor is there to be made?
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opnion Wed, May 7, 2008 10:33:54am |
re: #132 Milk Toast Intolerant
Not too long ago, many scientific minds believed the Earth was flat. Science changes all the time, so I think it's too soon to say that evolution is right and creationism is wrong.
Shot & A goal! One can look at the same facts & data and draw either conclusion.
It is not unreasonable to believe in Darwinism & still have a faith in a Supreme Being or at least hold out the possibility.
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Cognito Wed, May 7, 2008 10:34:16am |
re: #148 buzzsawmonkey
Creationism? Right now I'm thinking about procreationism.
/mind in the gutter, as usual.
Well heck. This whole time I thought my wife was chastising me for procrastination.
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:34:34am |
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:34:44am |
re: #145 Killgore Trout
I must have misunderstood your original comment. I thought you were referring to socialism when you said socialism had no place in the free market of ideas.
Are you referring to creationism as socialism ? I'm all mixed up now. Not an unusual occurence :)
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Pastorius Wed, May 7, 2008 10:35:32am |
It seems to me Comment #6 was a comment aimed at the idiocy of the guy with the sign (claiming he could prove God's existence in five seconds,when Spinoza, St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, etc all used more time and didn't accomplish much) not at Christians in general.
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Ma Sands Wed, May 7, 2008 10:35:36am |
re: #145 Killgore Trout
It depends on the meaning of the word "failed"......and, likewise, who uses it. :)
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:35:43am |
re: #148 buzzsawmonkey
Creationism? Right now I'm thinking about procreationism.
/mind in the gutter, as usual.
I thought you were neutered.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:35:43am |
Me, I'd rather mock than have this pointless "discussion" again or speak Whinese.
Scientists can create and destroy whole planets!
see : Pluto
/I'm only here as a referee
LOL
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:36:29am |
re: #154 BulgarWheat
Debunk me you savage beast!
That would rotate nicely IMO
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WriterMom Wed, May 7, 2008 10:36:33am |
I think it's great that the guy with the sign had the time and the interest to express himself at Berzerkely. I don't understand what people are getting so upset about.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, May 7, 2008 10:36:41am |
re: #156 Pastorius
It seems to me Comment #6 was a comment aimed at the idiocy of the guy with the sign (claiming he could prove God's existence in five seconds,when Spinoza, St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, etc all used more time and didn't accomplish much) not at Christians in general.
That was very much my point.
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storagemanager Wed, May 7, 2008 10:36:42am |
If your faith is real...wear the name calling as a badge of honor.
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Cognito Wed, May 7, 2008 10:36:53am |
I think this guy with the sign is doing the best he can. Good intentions and all that. And by George, the Berkeley market does seem to respect a person waving a sign; he might have better luck if he dressed up in a bunny suit or painted himself silver, though.
I tend to agree with Kierkegaard, who said something to the effect that the moment religion begins to lean on or against science, it sets itself up for embarrassment. Faith is always about what lies on the other side of science.
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 10:37:12am |
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:37:28am |
re: #122 zombie
Every species is a "transitional" species.
Including us.
There is no "end point," no "perfect" animal that stops evolving.
Thus every fossil ever found fits your requirements.
totally scooting around the point. take opposing digits for example, a key evolutionary factor in human development. it justy appears out of nowhere. this is all hard to discuss in a short post, think-as-you-type format, but I think you know where I am going with it.
simply stated, where are the fossils of the fish with threee dorsal fins, the human anscestor with mutations that were failures, that did not help adaptation to environments? it's a huge simplification, but, that's all I can do in this format.
just read about the 747 postulation; that there's not much more chance of a hurricane blasting through an airplane junkyard and creating a 747, as there is of life being created and perfected from random particles and protons, through random chance mutations.
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Ma Sands Wed, May 7, 2008 10:38:25am |
re: #164 storagemanager
Or rather, let it roll off as water does on a duck's back......keeping the goal in mind..... :)
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looking closely Wed, May 7, 2008 10:38:35am |
re: #113 Vergeltung
one of the mjor flaws of Darwinism is it's inability to explain the infintessimal odds of developing complex organs (a bee's eye, etc) by random chance mutation.
The theory of evolution actually explains things like that quite well.
Its not one random chance mutation that causes the bee's eye, but rather a series of thousands of them over tens of thousands of years, coupled with environmental pressure to ensure that the "good" mutations stick around.
Its like saying no human is smart enough to invent a modern PC, therefore they must have been placed on the Earth by supernatural beings.
The first part is true. . .the PC was invented by hundreds or thousands of people, with tens to hundreds of thousands of man-hours of work, representing decades of cumulative design experience. Its the second part that's untrue.
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Golem Akbar Wed, May 7, 2008 10:38:44am |
re: #126 WriterMom
Popcorn, popcorn....
I've been away for a while, come back, saw this thread, and thought: oh my. And your comment. Oh yeah. [I would rather discuss the finer points of single-malt scotch].
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opnion Wed, May 7, 2008 10:38:50am |
re: #162 WriterMom
I think it's great that the guy with the sign had the time and the interest to express himself at Berzerkely. I don't understand what people are getting so upset about.
Because, he looks like a loon & actually does religion a disservice.
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Lively Wed, May 7, 2008 10:38:53am |
re: #1 SemperHunden
Look at that picture, how the people are just laughing at him.
They said the same thing about Moses.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:38:54am |
re: #162 WriterMom
I think it's great that the guy with the sign had the time and the interest to express himself at Berzerkely. I don't understand what people are getting so upset about.
Yep. We all get to make our voices heard. That's why they call it America. :)
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WriterMom Wed, May 7, 2008 10:39:07am |
OT question:
Why do some web sites 'trap' you in their site, and not let you click back to get out of it? I find that so frustrating.
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Lively Wed, May 7, 2008 10:39:14am |
re: #174 Lively
They said the same thing about Moses.
I mean Noah....LOL!
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 10:39:36am |
re: #155 mama winger
Science is a free market system. Anyone can play, if you have proof and solid science your idea will succeed. If you fail to prove you idea it will fail. Creationism as science failed long ago, what Ben is asking for is interference in the free market system to allow a failed (bankrupt) idea to be presented on equal footing with a succeeding (prosperous) idea. It doesn't make sense to alter the market place in this way.
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doppelganglander Wed, May 7, 2008 10:39:44am |
re: #37 mama winger
I had no idea you have lupus. I do, too, although I'm pretty much asymptomatic as long as I take my meds. Sure hope you're feeling better soon!
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:39:47am |
One describes the physical in the terms of the secular.
One describes the spiritual in the terms of the biblical.
SO?
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:39:52am |
re: #127 Killgore Trout
Evolution is not random. You guys need to update your talking points. They are too easily debunked.
how does the first change happen? the first dingo with longer ears for the desert? the first giraffe with a longer neck for higher feeding? how and when does that first change occur?
and, there is no reason to insult me referring to "you guys" and talking points. I am trying to engage in an intelligent discussion with you guys. if that's not possible, I won't bother. :)
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Lively Wed, May 7, 2008 10:39:53am |
re: #5 Killgore Trout
I wonder how long the 5 seconds guy stood out there. Hours?
I'm arriving late but....this is funny.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:39:57am |
re: #172 Golem Akbar
[I would rather discuss the finer points of single-malt scotch].
Oh me too! What's your favorite?
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paxnhymn Wed, May 7, 2008 10:40:01am |
re: #177 Lively
I mean Noah....LOL!
one 'a those bearded guys , hunh?!
:-D
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WriterMom Wed, May 7, 2008 10:40:29am |
re: #173 opnion
You're upset because he looks weird? How does he hamper "religion"...he's just speaking for himself?
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Roger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:40:58am |
re: #173 opnion
Because, he looks like a loon & actually does religion a disservice.
Hey, at least he isn't screaming out imagined sexual scenarios to 'condemn' the students with like some street performer types are want to do.
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:41:00am |
re: #128 BulgarWheat
Thanks. That's a nice summation and I actually respect where you come from.
All good with me.
I got my path, you've got yours.
All's well that ends well.
thanks dude. I am falling behind on the thread quickly. that's what happens when you write long posts I guess! ;)
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Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) Wed, May 7, 2008 10:41:02am |
re: #176 WriterMom
OT question:
Why do some web sites 'trap' you in their site, and not let you click back to get out of it? I find that so frustrating.
In some cases, its a kind of adware which introduces a hidden page between the first page and what you were reading. When you click back, it takes you back once to the hidden page which forwards you to what you just read again.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:41:02am |
re: #180 doppelganglander
I had no idea you have lupus. I do, too, although I'm pretty much asymptomatic as long as I take my meds. Sure hope you're feeling better soon!
Oh dear! another Lupoid !?
I'm sorry - but glad you seem to have it under control. I wish you continued health and wellness.
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looking closely Wed, May 7, 2008 10:41:06am |
re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
As far as the fossil record goes, I would venture it comes down to the law of averages. The stable species would be more numerous while the failed mutations would have significantly smaller chance of being present. Now add to this the percentage of the creatures which actually became fossilized and it lowers the likelihood of finding a so called failed mutation to begin with. On the flip side, given the rarity of some fossil species, how can we be sure they weren't failed and we are making false assumptions of their viability.
Most mutations won't create a fossil record anyway.
Where is the fossil record of albino dinosaurs for example?
Should we presume that they didn't exist because we have no record of them (even though there are plenty of modern albino birds, reptiles, and mammals)?
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SpaceJesus Wed, May 7, 2008 10:41:12am |
re: #174 Lively
They said the same thing about Moses.
what
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loppyd Wed, May 7, 2008 10:41:37am |
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water....
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Mo86 Wed, May 7, 2008 10:41:39am |
It's been very sad to see LGF coming down on the side of those who would crush the discussion about ID in college classrooms (or anywhere else.)
So much for standing up for academic freedom. I never would've dreamed to see this here.
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storagemanager Wed, May 7, 2008 10:42:07am |
At least he is not wearing a bomb...Islam is the enemy.
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CyanSnowHawk Wed, May 7, 2008 10:42:21am |
re: #148 buzzsawmonkey
Creationism? Right now I'm thinking about procreationism.
/mind in the gutter, as usual.
Hardly in the gutter. Procreation is the imperative of all life. Everything that we do towards that aim should be considered good, even supporting the efforts of others to do that. I'm not entirely sure, but I think I just came up with a justification for pr0n that inspires lascivious thought.
Also, getting as much practice at it as we can must then be considered a good thing.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:42:22am |
re: #196 Mo86
It's been very sad to see LGF coming down on the side of those who would crush the discussion about ID in college classrooms (or anywhere else.)
So much for standing up for academic freedom. I never would've dreamed to see this here.
I am entirely for teaching ID if that helps you any
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yma o hyd Wed, May 7, 2008 10:42:34am |
re: #165 Cognito
I think this guy with the sign is doing the best he can. Good intentions and all that. And by George, the Berkeley market does seem to respect a person waving a sign; he might have better luck if he dressed up in a bunny suit or painted himself silver, though.
I tend to agree with Kierkegaard, who said something to the effect that the moment religion begins to lean on or against science, it sets itself up for embarrassment. Faith is always about what lies on the other side of science.
Yep - precisely so!
Pity then, that so many atheists rely on the latest scientific discoveries to proclaim that God doesn't exist, because they haven't found/measured/observed him in their laboratories ...
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:42:45am |
re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
excellent point. well taken..
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zmdavid Wed, May 7, 2008 10:42:49am |
I wish they would restrict evolution to science and leave it out of Constitutional law.
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WriterMom Wed, May 7, 2008 10:42:49am |
re: #172 Golem Akbar
I would rather discuss how totally thrilled I am that the annual Nakba Seetheopolooza has started.
Charles-I don't know if you saw this article, but it's kind of whack.
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Lively Wed, May 7, 2008 10:42:51am |
re: #193 SpaceJesus
what
I meant Noah.
/I can't believe I typed Moses....sorry all. Including Moses if he reads English.
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sojerofgod Wed, May 7, 2008 10:43:20am |
I just joined in here, so if i get this right, If I am one of those cynics who think that the chance that all you and i see and experience, the vast wonderful universe et al, all came into existence and spread, flourished and grew simply by random chance over who-cares-how-many years, are so close to zero as to be statistically indescribable, that makes me a creationist?
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loppyd Wed, May 7, 2008 10:43:25am |
re: #203 WriterMom
I would rather discuss how totally thrilled I am that the annual Nakba Seetheopolooza has started.
Charles-I don't know if you saw this article, but it's kind of whack.
I know what that means now!
Thank you....
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SpaceJesus Wed, May 7, 2008 10:43:35am |
re: #182 Vergeltung
how does the first change happen? the first dingo with longer ears for the desert? the first giraffe with a longer neck for higher feeding? how and when does that first change occur?
and, there is no reason to insult me referring to "you guys" and talking points. I am trying to engage in an intelligent discussion with you guys. if that's not possible, I won't bother. :)
how could you be old enough to surf the web and not know the answer to this? lemme guess, you were schooled at home?
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Honorary Yooper Wed, May 7, 2008 10:43:41am |
re: #196 Mo86
It's been very sad to see LGF coming down on the side of those who would crush the discussion about ID in college classrooms (or anywhere else.)
So much for standing up for academic freedom. I never would've dreamed to see this here.
Huh? There very much is a free-market in ideas. However, one should not prop up ideas that have failed in that marketplace. It smacks of liberalism, and I find it very troubling that some here espouse socialism in the realm of ideas when an idea they like fails.
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Ma Sands Wed, May 7, 2008 10:43:44am |
re: #193 SpaceJesus
What is the signification of your nic, if I may ask? :)
..... and, operative funk machine..... --I've a question for you, if you would be so kind as to appear..... :)
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Golem Akbar Wed, May 7, 2008 10:43:59am |
re: #178 buzzsawmonkey
The finest point of any single-malt Scotch is proximity.
I'll drink to that.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:44:03am |
re: #199 BabbaZee
I am entirely for teaching ID if that helps you any
Me too.
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dominigan Wed, May 7, 2008 10:44:13am |
re: #26 Pastorius
Wrong. The fruit was from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. There is truly a world of difference here. Knowledge is certainly not discouraged. However, exploring all the different ways to commit evil... that is!
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SpaceJesus Wed, May 7, 2008 10:44:30am |
re: #206 BabbaZee
They laughed at Moses too
and they laughed at hitler at first too. your point?
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Charles Wed, May 7, 2008 10:44:31am |
re: #196 Mo86
It's been very sad to see LGF coming down on the side of those who would crush the discussion about ID in college classrooms (or anywhere else.)
So much for standing up for academic freedom. I never would've dreamed to see this here.
Don't be ridiculous. No one is on the side of crushing free speech here.
And the claims made by Ben Stein's movie about suppression of ID believers are almost entirely made up.
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WriterMom Wed, May 7, 2008 10:44:32am |
On second thought, I'll call it NakbaPolooza.
I like that better.
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JohnnyReb Wed, May 7, 2008 10:44:36am |
re: #102 zombie
I don't mind their Global Warming hysteria because it's inspiring the scientists at Lawrence Berkeley Lab to develop alternative energy sources that will wean us off of Saudi Oil. A good side effect of a demented popular delusion!
Actually I mind it. All of this carbon cap and trade BS has just got a bill in my state sent to the Governor for signature that will increase my electricity rates by at least 10 cents per KWH. Granted, not a huge increase, but it is just the beginning.
I am hoping Gov. Rell can see through the BS and veto the bill. My electric rate is high enough as it is.
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ec marm Wed, May 7, 2008 10:44:55am |
re: #175 mama winger
Yep. We all get to make our voices heard. That's why they call it America. :)
Only in America could somebody nic/named 'SpaceJesus' ding you down.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:45:06am |
re: #214 SpaceJesus
and they laughed at hitler at first too. your point?
I have to have a point?
Lighten up
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looking closely Wed, May 7, 2008 10:45:07am |
re: #182 Vergeltung
how does the first change happen? the first dingo with longer ears for the desert? the first giraffe with a longer neck for higher feeding? how and when does that first change occur?
Since nobody was standing there observing the phenomenon you mention, you can't have a conclusive answer, but the way it works is as follows:
In any population of dingoes, some of them are going to have longer ears, some shorter. The ones with the longer ears will hear slightly better, translating into a small survival and reproductive advantage. Over many many generations those advantages will ensure that the population of dingoes all have longer ears than their predecessors.
Even in the population of long-eared dingoes, there will still be some with longer and some with smaller ears.
But the selective pressure of having better hearing will, over time, "perfect" the ears of the dingo population to their environment, within genetic limitations.
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jamsler Wed, May 7, 2008 10:45:19am |
re: #116 FoolsMate
Some hundreds of years ago. I remember it like it was yesteryear.
What this guy is doing, standing in Berkley with a sign like that, subject to constant ridicule is a labor of love for him. It takes more cajones than I have. I may or may not agree with him but this I know:
He isn't the enemy.
Only one group of zealots today will behead you for not subscribing to their zany beliefs. It's them I'm worried about.
Waste your ammo on sitting ducks if you want, I'm keeping my gunsights on the enemy.
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sojerofgod Wed, May 7, 2008 10:45:20am |
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WriterMom Wed, May 7, 2008 10:45:30am |
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paxnhymn Wed, May 7, 2008 10:45:52am |
re: #196 Mo86
It's been very sad to see LGF coming down on the side of those who would crush the discussion about ID in college classrooms (or anywhere else.)
So much for standing up for academic freedom. I never would've dreamed to see this here.
as I have (wearily) said time and time again...I see NO evidence of the above on LGF...Oh, we have the ocassional emo on both sides who gets their feelings hurt or throws a slur, but all in all there have been a healthy (and quite respectful) airing of ideas>
I wonder, as an evangelical and a proponent of ID, if we have become too thin skinned, or silly enough to think our God is not big enough to overcome obstacles without our help....
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:45:54am |
re: #218 ec marm
Only in America could somebody nic/named 'SpaceJesus' ding you down.
Hahahahaha ! :)
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brothertrav Wed, May 7, 2008 10:45:55am |
Wow... here we go again.
Has this site been taken over by Jerry Springer? Every few days now there seems to be a topic that's thrown up just to instigate arguments and hard feelings...
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Golem Akbar Wed, May 7, 2008 10:46:19am |
re: #207 loppyd
I know what that means now!
Thank you....
/And the world is flat!
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:46:33am |
re: #215 Charles
And the claims made by Ben Stein's movie about suppression of ID believers are almost entirely made up.
How do you know it? What makes you say it?
I'd like to read whatever you have on it.
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 10:46:41am |
re: #183 Lively
Update: zombie says he was there all day
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opnion Wed, May 7, 2008 10:47:21am |
re: #186 WriterMom
You're upset because he looks weird? How does he hamper "religion"...he's just speaking for himself?
Ok, so if the guy was holding a sign that said something like, oh I don't know "behead those who insult Islam", we would all think it was weird.
I don't think religion is appropriate for a protest type sign. Also could anybody in pocession of their faculties think that this would fly at Berkley?
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Roger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:47:22am |
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:47:46am |
re: #218 ec marm
Only in America could somebody nic/named 'SpaceJesus' ding you down.
Oh my gosh! He really did down-ding me for celebrating America!
I gotta say - that's a first LOL
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dominigan Wed, May 7, 2008 10:47:46am |
re: #171 looking closely
Actually statistics, and simple observations show that unneeded genetic mutations are weeded out, not prolonged. After all, according to natural selection, who wants to mate with a cripple? (Disclaimer... not a moral implication, just a logical application of natural selection which ends up disproving itself.)
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WriterMom Wed, May 7, 2008 10:47:48am |
re: #229 brothertrav
Dude, with all due respect, this is Charles' blog. Whatever he wants to post-he posts.
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loppyd Wed, May 7, 2008 10:47:48am |
re: #231 Golem Akbar
/And the world is flat!
who said anything to the contrary?
:~)
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FoolsMate Wed, May 7, 2008 10:47:49am |
re: #132 Milk Toast Intolerant
Science does have a history of establishing flawed paradigms and of shouting down scientific dissenters. It also has a history of destroying and replacing such paradigms in the face of evidence, although sometimes that process can take years or decades or longer. It's possible you are correct, but what are the chances? The theory of evolution, since Darwin, is not only still standing after 150 years, but the supporting evidence continues to grow stronger, and there are no credible scientific challenges to it at this time.
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Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) Wed, May 7, 2008 10:47:52am |
re: #192 looking closely
Most mutations won't create a fossil record anyway.
Where is the fossil record of albino dinosaurs for example?
Should we presume that they didn't exist because we have no record of them (even though there are plenty of modern albino birds, reptiles, and mammals)?
Exactly.
Personally, I dont see the point of the debate here.
The theory of evolution is just that, a theory on how species have adapted over time. Intelligent Design is a theory that an outside force created life and set it on its course. I dont see why people think the two have to be mutually exclusive. I believe in God and that he created the universe according to his plan. To fulfill his plan, God created life and uses evolution as a mechanism to enact his will.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:47:58am |
re: #236 Roger
And Elisha..
/Elijah? Enoch? How far are you both from Jerusalem?
And.....well, pretty much everyone.
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Golem Akbar Wed, May 7, 2008 10:48:36am |
re: #230 jamsler
Man,these threads move fast!
It's a slow news day, maybe, you heathen.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:48:39am |
re: #235 opnion
. Also could anybody in pocession of their faculties think that this would fly at Berkley?
That's what makes it glorious. :)
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guitarguy Wed, May 7, 2008 10:48:44am |
I’ve posted my own 2 cents regarding this debate on other websites, and having learned my lesson* have chosen to provide this link, as it pretty much says it nicely:
If you enjoy a good laugh, you’ll love this:
........and these are just downright scary:
[Link: www.youtube.com...]
*The reactions I’d received pretty much implied that I must be a left-leaning advocate of teaching young children about sex education and homosexual marriages while leading a lawless amoral lifestyle.
No, I’m not joking.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:49:20am |
re: #244 right wing zephyr
I took my meds. Can I participate?
No. Only people OFF their meds can post.
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sojerofgod Wed, May 7, 2008 10:49:35am |
re: #217 JohnnyReb
Sorry Zom, but i gotta go with Johnnyreb on that one.
I just want to be left alone.
I just want to be left alone so bad i'm ready to climb the nearest belltower and scream i just want to be left alone at the top of my lungs. With a megaphone.
They used to call people who wanted to tell you what to do busybodies. Now we call them politicians.
And that goes for all of the cankerous lot, too.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:49:36am |
re: #244 right wing zephyr
I think it's time to whip out the Shakespearean Insultomatic again
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Pope Insouciance IV Wed, May 7, 2008 10:49:40am |
There's so much right about that picture it's hard to know where to begin.
He's a guy with an opinion on a college campus.
No one is stopping him from speaking.
From the looks of it, no one is threatening him.
No ugliness.
He's not bothering anyone, just getting his message out.
No college administrator is hustling him off campus because of a "speech code".
This is exactly what colleges should be doing. The vaunted "marketplace of ideas". Some ideas are dumb, some are sublime. Quite a lot in between. But it's a free exchange of opinions.
God Bless Freedom Of Speech!
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Charles Wed, May 7, 2008 10:50:03am |
re: #232 BabbaZee
re: #215 Charles
How do you know it? What makes you say it?
I'd like to read whatever you have on it.
I know because I saw the movie, then read many statements from people whose opinions were either 1) distorted, or 2) completely misrepresented.
And the claims about suppression are very well debunked, with facts, names, and dates, at this site:
[Link: www.expelledexposed.com...]
It's a dishonest film. And I'm saying this as a (former) fan of Ben Stein.
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opnion Wed, May 7, 2008 10:50:10am |
re: #205 sojerofgod
I just joined in here, so if i get this right, If I am one of those cynics who think that the chance that all you and i see and experience, the vast wonderful universe et al, all came into existence and spread, flourished and grew simply by random chance over who-cares-how-many years, are so close to zero as to be statistically indescribable, that makes me a creationist?
No, it makes you somebody looking at data & drawing a rational conclusion.
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WriterMom Wed, May 7, 2008 10:50:18am |
re: #235 opnion
First of all, there is a big difference between those messages. There is nothing violent in this guy's sign. Secondly, who cares if the message flies or not. This guy got some paper a big black marker and has the time and the interest in hanging out on campus. What's the big deal?
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:50:28am |
re: #208 SpaceJesus
how could you be old enough to surf the web and not know the answer to this? lemme guess, you were schooled at home?
yes, that certainly is the summa of all education, "surfing the web". should I cite wikipedia perhaps? your insults hardly add to the discussion. thanks for the feedback.
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irish rose Wed, May 7, 2008 10:50:38am |
re: #229 brothertrav
Wow... here we go again.
Has this site been taken over by Jerry Springer? Every few days now there seems to be a topic that's thrown up just to instigate arguments and hard feelings...
Only if you want them to.
Civility is a choice.
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 10:50:45am |
re: #250 BabbaZee
So true thou vile swine! Out of my sight! Thou dost infect my eyes.
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 10:50:46am |
re: #182 Vergeltung
how does the first change happen? the first dingo with longer ears for the desert? the first giraffe with a longer neck for higher feeding? how and when does that first change occur?
The answers are very easy to learn. You should read up on what evolutionary biologists think, not what creationists tell you about what biologists think. It's a strawman argument. I won't provide links anymore because it doesn't seem to help any.
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dominigan Wed, May 7, 2008 10:50:48am |
re: #215 Charles
Sorry, untrue. I've been involved in the trying to get ID discussions allowed in classrooms for Ohio curriculum... simply to discuss as an alternative theory, alongside Darwinism. And you would have thought we were trying to get a conservative justice nomination through a Democratic Congress. There IS an active movement to suppress discussion of ID.
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storagemanager Wed, May 7, 2008 10:51:04am |
Ahmadinejad Says End Of The World Near - Messianic “Hidden” Imam Al Mahdi Is Now Running The Show
Yeah...the guy with the sign is the nut...ok. [Link: patdollard.com...]
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:51:08am |
re: #209 Honorary Yooper
a product has to get to market before it can fail.
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irish rose Wed, May 7, 2008 10:51:11am |
re: #248 mama winger
No. Only people OFF their meds can post.
What about those of us who don't take any meds?
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:51:31am |
re: #252 Charles
Thanks
I have seen the expelled exposed site
What I was looking for
was corroborating stuff from other places
if you find any along the way please post
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Pater Coop Wed, May 7, 2008 10:51:43am |
Here's a cool science fact. Apparently the cavity in our bodies (under the vital organs? I was never good at Biology) is lined with many, many little open capillaries. When internal bleeding occurs, the blood drains into this cavity, where it is somehow kept fresh and oxygenated, and eventually absorbed back into the bloodstream. The Dr. who told me this said that you can even receive a slow-acting blood transfusion by injecting blood into the cavity. Thank you, God, for allowing us to evolve in such a wondrous manner!
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Alouette Wed, May 7, 2008 10:51:51am |
re: #174 Lively
They said the same thing about Moses.
Who did?
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:51:52am |
re: #257 right wing zephyr
If only thy were clean enough for me to spit upon.
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sojerofgod Wed, May 7, 2008 10:52:22am |
re: #238 dominigan
... who wants to mate with a cripple?
Now you know why humans are subject to so many inherited defects and diseases!
Heh.
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MrSilverDragon Wed, May 7, 2008 10:52:27am |
re: #262 irish rose
What about those of us who don't take any meds?
Crack open the scotch!
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 10:52:29am |
re: #262 irish rose
What about those of us who don't take any meds?
NO MEDS!?!?!? thou dost not believe in science. Your virginity, your old virginity is like one of our French wither'd pears: it looks ill, it eats drily.
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Golem Akbar Wed, May 7, 2008 10:52:34am |
re: #250 BabbaZee
I think it's time to whip out the Shakespearean Insultomatic again
That's a keeper! [as opposed to this keeper]
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:52:37am |
re: #262 irish rose
What about those of us who don't take any meds?
You have to sit in the waiting room till you go nuts. Then you can post. :)
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:52:41am |
re: #262 irish rose
What about those of us who don't take any meds?
You dare flout Science?
/
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Lively Wed, May 7, 2008 10:52:41am |
re: #266 Alouette
Who did?
I typed in Moses as a mistake and I'm still payin' for it.
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 10:53:17am |
re: #267 BabbaZee
haha old wench. Thou art a wretch whose natural gifts were poor.
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opnion Wed, May 7, 2008 10:53:40am |
re: #246 mama winger
That's what makes it glorious. :)
Huh? The purpose you would suppose would be to influence opinion.
They are laughing at him. He just reinforces their snarky opnion that Christians are kooks.
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Honorary Yooper Wed, May 7, 2008 10:53:56am |
re: #259 dominigan
Sorry, untrue. I've been involved in the trying to get ID discussions allowed in classrooms for Ohio curriculum... simply to discuss as an alternative theory, alongside Darwinism. And you would have thought we were trying to get a conservative justice nomination through a Democratic Congress. There IS an active movement to suppress discussion of ID.
Again, the problem with ID, no matter how you slice it or present it, is that it simply isn't a vaild scientific theory. Once you bring in the supernatural in to teach science, you aren't teaching science anymore. You are in the realm of metaphysics and theology. That's why, regardless of your stance on ID, it should not be taught in a science classroom.
Again, this is the "equal time" phenomenon that is no different than what the liberals want with the so-called fairness doctrine.
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victor_yugo Wed, May 7, 2008 10:54:11am |
re: #112 Charles
I haven't seen one person call creationists "stupid" in this thread. It would be nice if the discussion could take place without thin-skinned exaggeration.
Lance wasn't saying specifically "on this thread," or even "on this site."
However, on this thread, the word "stupid" (or a word containing that, like "stupidity") appears 31 times (not counting replies), and some of those are directly aimed at others on the thread. And zombie explicitly calls people "ignorant," or refers to their "ignorance," 3 times.
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Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) Wed, May 7, 2008 10:54:20am |
re: #250 BabbaZee
I think it's time to whip out the Shakespearean Insultomatic again
What about those insults run thru the Swedish Chef Dialectzer?
Thuoo inffecteeuoos sheep-beeting mel****ent!
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 10:54:26am |
who wants to mate with a cripple?
I'll take 2!
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Honorary Yooper Wed, May 7, 2008 10:54:30am |
re: #261 Vergeltung
a product has to get to market before it can fail.
It did make it to market. It failed to stand up to the standards of evidence about 150 years ago.
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Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, May 7, 2008 10:54:37am |
We are where we are today because of both science and G-d's grace.
Frankly I find science enhances G-d, not the opposite, as so many seem to feel.
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looking closely Wed, May 7, 2008 10:54:38am |
re: #238 dominigan
Actually statistics, and simple observations show that unneeded genetic mutations are weeded out, not prolonged. After all, according to natural selection, who wants to mate with a cripple? (Disclaimer... not a moral implication, just a logical application of natural selection which ends up disproving itself.)
You don't have to prove this to me.
As another example, where is the fossil record of the dog intermediate between a Doberman Pincher and a wolf?
I think even the most diehard Creationist would concede that such a dog must have existed at one point, de-fanging arguments about incomplete fossil records.
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zmdavid Wed, May 7, 2008 10:54:46am |
This debate is more about power and victimhood than about science.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:55:09am |
re: #287 zmdavid
This debate is more about power and victimhood than about science.
Amen
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loppyd Wed, May 7, 2008 10:55:22am |
Can't it be a little of both? Like Donny & Marie?
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Golem Akbar Wed, May 7, 2008 10:55:27am |
re: #275 buzzsawmonkey
Gee, I'm stumped.
sounds like a trip
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sojerofgod Wed, May 7, 2008 10:55:35am |
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 10:55:45am |
re: #287 zmdavid
This debate is
I have yet to see much of a debate. I'm disenchanted.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:55:57am |
re: #285 Pawn of the Oppressor
Amen to that too
Here is a place where they agree with us
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:56:15am |
re: #259 dominigan
Sorry, untrue. I've been involved in the trying to get ID discussions allowed in classrooms for Ohio curriculum... simply to discuss as an alternative theory, alongside Darwinism. And you would have thought we were trying to get a conservative justice nomination through a Democratic Congress. There IS an active movement to suppress discussion of ID.
I've been through a "Critical Thinking and Reasoning" class that had a textbook which gave examples of good and poor thinking skills.
Good examples were people talking about how global warming is man-made, how welfare works and how universal healthcare is needed.
examples of poor thinking involved people wanting to have firearms, lowering taxes and believing in Creation.
And it was a class wholly unrelated to Science.
My Science book discusses evolution in every chapter, even those discussing physics.
Yet I am to believe that no one is trying to ignore Creationism or any variation of ID?
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Roger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:56:25am |
re: #231 Golem Akbar
/And the world is flat!
I wish to prove the world is of a more complex geometry than egg shaped for the basic hope there be yet one uninhabited continent where we can emigrate and try one more time for a free enterprise civilization with small government with we the people running it by part time service.
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storagemanager Wed, May 7, 2008 10:56:30am |
I am too busy posting about the real enemy on spin-off ...to care about this topic.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:56:45am |
re: #293 right wing zephyr
Some disenchanted evening
You wilst club an errant whey-face!
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 10:56:47am |
re: #256 irish rose
Only if you want them to.
Civility is a choice.
IS NOT! IS NOT! IS NOT!
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Charles Wed, May 7, 2008 10:56:58am |
re: #263 BabbaZee
Thanks
I have seen the expelled exposed site
What I was looking for
was corroborating stuff from other places
if you find any along the way please post
There is a lot of stuff on the web about this film; Scientific American has also done a series of exposés of the film's dishonest claims.
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opnion Wed, May 7, 2008 10:56:59am |
re: #254 WriterMom
First of all, there is a big difference between those messages. There is nothing violent in this guy's sign. Secondly, who cares if the message flies or not. This guy got some paper a big black marker and has the time and the interest in hanging out on campus. What's the big deal?
Clearly the messages are different. I was just answering your comment about what could be wrong with holding up a sign.
He has every right to do what he is doing, but he comes actross as unhinged. They are laughing at him.
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paxnhymn Wed, May 7, 2008 10:57:17am |
re: #290 loppyd
Can't it be a little of both? Like Donny & Marie?
ahhh...that's mah ssweeeet lil' ol' yankee sistuh!
{loppy}
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Just Another Four-letter Word Wed, May 7, 2008 10:57:34am |
re: #127 Killgore Trout
Evolution is not random. You guys need to update your talking points. They are too easily debunked.
Did I miss something? I was under the impression (probably from something I read) that evolution was due to random mutations....
JAFLW
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 10:57:41am |
re: #297 storagemanager
I am too busy posting about the real enemy on spin-off ...to care about this topic.
Yeah well, I think thou wast created for men to breath themselves upon thee.
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unrealizedviewpoint Wed, May 7, 2008 10:57:43am |
re: #264 Pater Coop
Here's a cool science fact. Apparently the cavity in our bodies (under the vital organs? I was never good at Biology) is lined with many, many little open capillaries. When internal bleeding occurs, the blood drains into this cavity, where it is somehow kept fresh and oxygenated, and eventually absorbed back into the bloodstream. The Dr. who told me this said that you can even receive a slow-acting blood transfusion by injecting blood into the cavity. Thank you, God, for allowing us to evolve in such a wondrous manner!
LOL
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 10:57:44am |
I told myself that this would be the day I would clean my closet.
And yet, here I sit, a cripple with a bum hand whom no ones wants to mate with.
I need a Scotch.
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Iron Fist Wed, May 7, 2008 10:58:05am |
re: #113 Vergeltung,
It takes much more faith to believe that everything just worked out perfectly all by itself, that we just won the Life lottery as it were, than it does to believe in a Creator.
What I want to know is where is evolution taking place today? It id based on chance mutation that is significant enough to not only ensure survival, but to change the species of the survivor. Fish turn into frogs and salamanders, salamanders turn into lizards, up the chain to monkey into man. Has evolution taken a vacation?
Microevolution has been proven. The existance of mules proves a common ancestor between a horse and a donkey. It probably looked a lot like a mule, but was fertile. It didn't look like a fish. It takes a lot of faith to believe a fish and a donkey have a common ancestor.
Let alone a fish and a human.
And it doesn't stay constant. They can't even decide if homo sapiens and Neanderthals are related or seperate branches of parallel evolution. I think the latter is the current view, but they may have changed again since my college anthropology classes.
And there is where real faith comes in. The graph of human evolution from Austrolopithicine to Homo Sapiens is laughably shakey.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 10:58:07am |
re: #300 Charles
Thanks.
I have to get into that portion of it next in searches.
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 10:58:10am |
re: #259 dominigan
Sorry, untrue. I've been involved in the trying to get ID discussions allowed in classrooms for Ohio curriculum... simply to discuss as an alternative theory, alongside Darwinism. And you would have thought we were trying to get a conservative justice nomination through a Democratic Congress. There IS an active movement to suppress discussion of ID.
really not too hard to believe or imagine. a no brainer to conceive of the resistance of modern liberal educators to slay one of their own shibboleths.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 10:58:16am |
re: #279 Honorary Yooper
So your solution is to just not allow it to be taught at all?
Then talk about us trying to censor?
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 10:58:28am |
re: #259 dominigan
Sorry, untrue. I've been involved in the trying to get ID discussions allowed in classrooms for Ohio curriculum... simply to discuss as an alternative theory, alongside Darwinism. And you would have thought we were trying to get a conservative justice nomination through a Democratic Congress. There IS an active movement to suppress discussion of ID.
ID is not science.
That said, I'm a Christian who believes that God created the heavens and the earth but, I also believe that He allowed His creation to take on a life of its own and to evolve.
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Ma Sands Wed, May 7, 2008 10:58:28am |
re: #277 opnion
Influencing opinion (or opnion :) truly isn't the purpose..........opinion is to do with the mind........he's planting seeds, where they'll burrow.....
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 10:59:01am |
re: #303 sojerofgod
I rest my case!
Of course you do. Aren't you the one who proved Al Gore created the world and evolution exists because of---
/ points to Soros
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Golem Akbar Wed, May 7, 2008 10:59:42am |
re: #294 BabbaZee
Amen to that too
Here is a place where they agree with us
I had read that the Rebbe had a background in physics, and this just reaffirms that. I know that I know too little. Beyond that I get a massive headache.
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yma o hyd Wed, May 7, 2008 11:00:09am |
re: #272 mama winger
You have to sit in the waiting room till you go nuts. Then you can post. :)
That'll be me, then :-)))
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CyanSnowHawk Wed, May 7, 2008 11:00:24am |
re: #196 Mo86
It's been very sad to see LGF coming down on the side of those who would crush the discussion about ID in college classrooms (or anywhere else.)
So much for standing up for academic freedom. I never would've dreamed to see this here.
Provide some positive evidence of ID by accepted scientific standards and you will get your discussion in science classrooms. Until then you will not get any more consideration than someone suggesting that Odin created the first man and woman from the trunks of trees.
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:00:27am |
re: #286 looking closely
You don't have to prove this to me.
As another example, where is the fossil record of the dog intermediate between a Doberman Pincher and a wolf?
I think even the most diehard Creationist would concede that such a dog must have existed at one point, de-fanging arguments about incomplete fossil records.
The wolf evolved into a Yorkshire Terorrist, not a pinscher.
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Just Another Four-letter Word Wed, May 7, 2008 11:00:35am |
re: #141 buzzsawmonkey
It is well known that the only genuine healing crystals are diamonds unimpeachable color, cut and clarity.
You may be on to something, there - diamonds, especially clear and pure ones, are known to heal many a relationship...
(And the larger the stone, the better, right?)
JAFLW
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Irish Rose Wed, May 7, 2008 11:01:11am |
re: #299 MandyManners
IS NOT! IS NOT! IS NOT!
Is too.
Neener, neener.
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 11:01:24am |
re: #284 Honorary Yooper
It did make it to market. It failed to stand up to the standards of evidence about 150 years ago.
really? I thought creationsim and ID were 2 seperate concepts and theories. gee whiz.
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Roger Wed, May 7, 2008 11:01:34am |
re: #312 MandyManners
Don't forget devolution; that is allowed too. A choice kind of thing.
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sojerofgod Wed, May 7, 2008 11:01:40am |
re: #307 mama winger
Gee mama, you fishing for something there?
Sorry, I'm taken, but im sure some of the assembled here....
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 11:01:45am |
Odin created the first man and woman from the trunks of trees.
My God, your bark is beautiful. Do you moisturize?
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:01:52am |
Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons? Where did Cain find his wife?
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 11:02:13am |
re: #324 sojerofgod
Gee mama, you fishing for something there?
Sorry, I'm taken, but im sure some of the assembled here....
LOL! thanks - but really - I prefer the Scotch. :)
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:02:15am |
re: #321 Irish Rose
Is too.
Neener, neener.
SNOT! SNOT! SNOT!
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realwest Wed, May 7, 2008 11:02:19am |
re: #70 mama winger
Hey hi there {mama} sorry to hear about your hand, but I gotta tell ya that's one cute doggie!
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Honorary Yooper Wed, May 7, 2008 11:02:31am |
re: #311 LanceKates
So your solution is to just not allow it to be taught at all?
Then talk about us trying to censor?
It has little to do with censoring anything. Now, I don't know where your book for your class was made, but it obviously is flawed, and someone did not do a good job of critical and rational thinking while writing it. There are very well reasoned and valid arguments for people having guns, and a lot of the global warming stuff I've seen from the politicians and activists like David Suzuki are utter tripe.
Personally, I think the whole AGW stuff needs to be kept out of the classroom as well.
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 11:03:07am |
re: #326 MandyManners
Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons? Where did Cain find his wife?
Powerful stuff there Mandy.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 11:03:20am |
re: #329 realwest
Hey hi there {mama} sorry to hear about your hand, but I gotta tell ya that's one cute doggie!
He is, isn't he? I think it was all part of his evil plot to get adopted. Who could resist that face ?
Answer: apparently not me. :)
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:03:44am |
re: #323 Roger
Don't forget devolution; that is allowed too. A choice kind of thing.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 11:03:48am |
re: #315 Golem Akbar
math I am clueless on
but conceptually speaking
I love that stuff
natan aviezer
I have tons of links where Science and GOD do not do war
this is a secular documentary
96% of the Universe is Missing
So...where is it?
Science!
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Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) Wed, May 7, 2008 11:03:53am |
re: #326 MandyManners
Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?
Yes, they had outies which is where God tied them off after he inflated them.
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jcm Wed, May 7, 2008 11:03:57am |
re: #328 MandyManners
SNOT! SNOT! SNOT!
Children! do I have to give you a time out?
Play nice now!
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debutaunt Wed, May 7, 2008 11:03:59am |
re: #274 Lively
I typed in Moses as a mistake and I'm still payin' for it.
Freudian Moses.
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opnion Wed, May 7, 2008 11:04:27am |
re: #313 Ma Sands
Influencing opinion (or opnion :) truly isn't the purpose..........opinion is to do with the mind........he's planting seeds, where they'll burrow.....
Im confused. This guy was there to influence opinion. Planting seeds amounts to the same thing.
If he wasn't there to influenced opinion he should have just gone to the beach or a movie.
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:04:33am |
re: #331 Irish Rose
So am I.
It's like walking on a balance beam about an inch off the ground.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 11:04:34am |
re: #330 Honorary Yooper
You wouldn't believe some of the college textbooks out there. Pure unadulterated ca-ca.
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jcm Wed, May 7, 2008 11:04:36am |
re: #335 BabbaZee
math I am clueless on
but conceptually speaking
I love that stuff
natan aviezer
I have tons of links where Science and GOD do not do warthis is a secular documentary
96% of the Universe is MissingSo...where is it?
Science!
Where did I put the rest of the universe?
/G-d
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Honorary Yooper Wed, May 7, 2008 11:04:57am |
re: #322 Vergeltung
really? I thought creationsim and ID were 2 seperate concepts and theories. gee whiz.
Not so much as one would think. I strongly, very strongly suggest that all here (on both sides, and on the fence) read The Creationists by Ronald L. Numbers. It's a pretty good history the creation science/ID movement from the start of the movement about 150 years ago to the present day.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 11:05:22am |
re: #330 Honorary Yooper
It has little to do with censoring anything. Now, I don't know where your book for your class was made, but it obviously is flawed, and someone did not do a good job of critical and rational thinking while writing it. There are very well reasoned and valid arguments for people having guns, and a lot of the global warming stuff I've seen from the politicians and activists like David Suzuki are utter tripe.
Personally, I think the whole AGW stuff needs to be kept out of the classroom as well.
Of COURSE the book is flawed and poorly made.
That is, however, not the point.
It is what is being used and that is what people like myself gripe about.
Especially when people say that what we point out just 'doesn't exist'
Tends to let me know that they're really just not interested in looking fori t.
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:06:03am |
re: #332 right wing zephyr
Powerful stuff there Mandy.
Don't chug it too fast.
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Shug Wed, May 7, 2008 11:06:08am |
In 5 seconds I can prove to you that I can waste 5 seconds of your time
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sojerofgod Wed, May 7, 2008 11:06:23am |
So the answer to this is for us to teach the children NOTHING AT ALL Personally I subscibe to that. Why do they get a crib sheet? When I was growing up I had to figure out the meaning of life all by myself! * No stinking teachers to give me a leg up!
*The answer is. '42'
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:06:29am |
re: #336 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Yes, they had outies which is where God tied them off after he inflated them.
LOL!
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:06:42am |
re: #337 jcm
Children! do I have to give you a time out?
Play nice now!
No.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 11:06:56am |
Say
where did that angry space jesus troll fly off too?
I'm hungry.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 11:07:01am |
re: #344 LanceKates
My son attends a conservative Christian college / seminary. Even some of his books he has to read with a huge grain of salt. Especially in the social sciences. crapola on a giant stick.
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Andopolis Wed, May 7, 2008 11:07:15am |
The simple facts of creationism vs evolution
Given the concept of an omnipotent being, it becomes impossible to prove either theory. An omnipotent being could have created life, the universe and everything, exactly as we know it, 42 minutes ago, and all human knowledge and memory of events before then could have been created at the same time... how are we to know otherwise?
We all could have come to be exactly as (insert religion of choice here) says we did, on the other hand the evolutionists could be pretty much right.
It all becomes a matter of faith, whether in some sort of god(s) or science. You pays your money, you takes your choice, but you can't prove that you're right.
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 11:07:52am |
re: #317 CyanSnowHawk
The film was timed to coincide with a series of "Academic Freedom" bills in about a half dozen states. I can't wait for one to pass so CAIR can get equal time in Social Studies, World history, etc.
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 11:07:54am |
re: #345 MandyManners
Don't chug it too fast.
Loo tate.
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nikis-knight Wed, May 7, 2008 11:08:15am |
re: #41 FoolsMate
You haven't seen snide comments, disregard, and condescension until you've seen the treatment atheists get from evangelists and fundies.
Here? You get that here? Do you have links?
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yma o hyd Wed, May 7, 2008 11:08:26am |
re: #318 MandyManners
The wolf evolved into a Yorkshire Terorrist, not a pinscher.
True!
Even today one can observe the Yorkshire Terrorist terrorising all the missing links between him and the wolf!
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:08:41am |
re: #352 jcm
ONE
TTTHHHHHHHHPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 11:08:58am |
re: #351 mama winger
My son attends a conservative Christian college / seminary. Even some of his books he has to read with a huge grain of salt. Especially in the social sciences. crapola on a giant stick.
Yup.
And if it is in those "Fundie" schools, imagine the colleges that are not christian in nature.
I've had to bite my tongue often in these classes.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 11:09:07am |
re: #355 Killgore Trout
I can't wait for one to pass so CAIR can get equal time in Social Studies, World history, etc.
And you think they already don't? you haven't been paying attention.
The public school system is an indoctrination program.
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zmdavid Wed, May 7, 2008 11:09:13am |
re: #355 Killgore Trout
The film was timed to coincide with a series of "Academic Freedom" bills in about a half dozen states. I can't wait for one to pass so CAIR can get equal time in Social Studies, World history, etc.
You mean so someone besides CAIR can get equal time?
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:09:23am |
re: #355 Killgore Trout
The film was timed to coincide with a series of "Academic Freedom" bills in about a half dozen states. I can't wait for one to pass so CAIR can get equal time in Social Studies, World history, etc.
Yep.
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sojerofgod Wed, May 7, 2008 11:09:26am |
re: #353 Andopolis
gee, did you think up that number or did you read my post first. I don't like coincidences.
I might not like you either.
Not sure yet.
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 11:09:29am |
"What would the Devil do for company if it weren't for one such as I am?"
John Bunyan
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Dotcoman Wed, May 7, 2008 11:09:41am |
re: #36 Charles
By the way, there is nothing essentially "Christian" about creationism. The Catholic Church, for example, has specifically renounced creationism (and intelligent design) and stated that Darwin's theory of evolution is not opposed to Christian faith.
There's nothing all that essentially "Christian" about the Catholic Church either.
And Genesis and the creation story are Old Testament and Jewish anyway. And they probably got the story from Zoroasterism.
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Charles Wed, May 7, 2008 11:09:57am |
re: #259 dominigan
Sorry, untrue. I've been involved in the trying to get ID discussions allowed in classrooms for Ohio curriculum... simply to discuss as an alternative theory, alongside Darwinism. And you would have thought we were trying to get a conservative justice nomination through a Democratic Congress. There IS an active movement to suppress discussion of ID.
This is not a free speech issue. You're free to advocate for belief in intelligent design all you like, and you're free to teach it to your children if you choose. You're running into roadblocks because you're trying to define a religion-based belief as science, and teach it as science right along with legitimate tested scientific theories -- not just to your own children, but to all children. Big surprise: scientists object!
There's no grand conspiracy to silence you.
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 11:09:59am |
re: #345 MandyManners
Chug it? Heck, I was trying to smoke it in the bong.
Damn, better change the bong water (once again)
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CyanSnowHawk Wed, May 7, 2008 11:10:04am |
re: #325 right wing zephyr
My God, your bark is beautiful. Do you moisturize?
My argument stands, regardless of this man.
WARNING, it is not a pretty picture of an unfortunate man.
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:10:05am |
re: #356 right wing zephyr
Loo tate.
Jiis wash oud fer de ossifers ov de lah.
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 11:10:14am |
re: #365 sojerofgod
gee, did you think up that number or did you read my post first. I don't like coincidences.
...
It's a God thing.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 11:10:34am |
re: #355 Killgore Trout
The film was timed to coincide with a series of "Academic Freedom" bills in about a half dozen states. I can't wait for one to pass so CAIR can get equal time in Social Studies, World history, etc.
I wish they were LIMITED to equal time.
Don't you remember the "Muslim Day" celebrations in CA schools? Where they set up little tents in the gym and practiced being a muslim all day, including clothing and prayers?
Can you IMAGINE someone suggesting the Christian version?
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Irish Rose Wed, May 7, 2008 11:10:38am |
I have a client to look in on... here's hoping its' still civil when I get back.
If not, at least its' pub night tonight.
Cheers!
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:10:49am |
re: #358 yma o hyd
True!
Even today one can observe the Yorkshire Terrorist terrorising all the missing links between him and the wolf!
Fiercest little beastie I've ever known.
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jcm Wed, May 7, 2008 11:11:21am |
re: #368 antishock8
Wow, what a rube.
Finally another Hawk fan. It's been lonely.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 11:11:34am |
re: #367 Dotcoman
There's nothing all that essentially "Christian" about the Catholic Church either.
Catholics are Christians.
Boo on you for trying to stir up that old argument.
Yes, I am a protestant Christian, and I stand up for the Catholic Church.
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jorline Wed, May 7, 2008 11:11:59am |
Proof from HuffPo that evolution's a myth...this moron has yet to evolve into anything close to human.
From a thread talking about Jenna Bush's wedding.
lessthanimpressed See Profile I'm a Fan of lessthanimpressed
Oh Man I hope some terrorist group finds out and drives a nuclear powered death trap right into the middle of the whol texas limestone scumbaf setup and kills everyone within a thousand miles
Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:04 AM on 05/07/2008
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:12:02am |
re: #370 BulgarWheat
Chug it? Heck, I was trying to smoke it in the bong.
Damn, better change the bong water (once again)
The bong. How phallic.
*rad*
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nikis-knight Wed, May 7, 2008 11:12:03am |
re: #36 Charles
By the way, there is nothing essentially "Christian" about creationism. The Catholic Church, for example, has specifically renounced creationism (and intelligent design) and stated that Darwin's theory of evolution is not opposed to Christian faith.
Other than the expelled flyer, there is nothing "creationist" in the picture and zombie's article that can be disbelieved and still be in anyway a "christian." All it says is, God did it. No arguements on how. I thought theistic/guided evolution was still an acceptable belief... or are we required to say, "Random chance created you, God just sort of hung around, but he loves you in a detatched, non-interventionist sort of way anyhow!"?
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jcm Wed, May 7, 2008 11:12:25am |
re: #359 MandyManners
TTTHHHHHHHHPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT TT.
You're a bad influence on my kids!
ROLF!
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 11:12:52am |
re: #380 LanceKates
Catholics are Christians.
Boo on you for trying to stir up that old argument.
Yes, I am a protestant Christian, and I stand up for the Catholic Church.
/RWZ frantically passing out the rest of his meds.
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lawhawk Wed, May 7, 2008 11:12:56am |
re: #192 looking closely
Most creatures may not end up creating fossil records in any event. The situation has to be within a narrow chain of events for fossils to form. re: #347 sojerofgod
I see that you're up on the catechism of the Hitchhiker's Guide.
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debutaunt Wed, May 7, 2008 11:13:12am |
re: #346 Shug
In 5 seconds I can prove to you that I can waste 5 seconds of your time
But do you have the resolve to prove it over 8 hours?
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snowcrash Wed, May 7, 2008 11:13:42am |
For me the only important debate is where we present the material. There are philosophy classes and religion classes and Lit classes and art classes and probably other places where ID can freely be debated, just not in science classes.
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Shug Wed, May 7, 2008 11:13:51am |
All these questions have answers. None of us will ever know them for sure.
Perhaps when we die we will know the answers. Perhaps we won't
If there is no afterlife then we won't know that we don't know.
Either way, it doesn't matter now whether we know or not.
/ carry on fighting about it
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Dotcoman Wed, May 7, 2008 11:14:05am |
You'd think that if evolution existed man would have evolved by now.
And all women on the planet would naturally blond, Buxom, and Blue eyed, and all the men would be hung like John Holms.
Where are all the beneficial mutations?
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Killgore Trout Wed, May 7, 2008 11:14:36am |
re: #362 mama winger
No CAIR has no significant say in schools curriculum, although they do occasionally sneak something in. But we can resist. With an "Academic Freedom" bill in place there will be no recourse if a teacher wants to teach an Islamic version of world history, social studies or science. I even suspect the Islamists would get more mileage out of those "academic freedom" bills than the Christians.
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Shug Wed, May 7, 2008 11:14:42am |
re: #388 debutaunt
But do you have the resolve to prove it over 8 hours?
Nope.
I'd rather drink beer and watch sports
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 11:14:51am |
re: #391 Dotcoman
Eh, where do you live? We got all that down here in North Carolina. I thought everyone did.
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Cap'n DOC Wed, May 7, 2008 11:15:03am |
re: #326 MandyManners
Funny you should mention that. I read a Rolling Stone article in about 1970 whose title was Who Was Is the Man of the Shroud and subtitled Why Does He Have No Navel.
The story was about the (new at that time) study of the Shroud of Turin.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 11:15:03am |
I don't know. When I went to school, I don't remember evolution being taught to the exclusion of all other discussion. Of course, this was before there was fire. so things may have changed.
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 11:15:27am |
re: #390 Shug
We don't even know what we don't know. HOw could we possibly know what Stein doesn't know?
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 11:15:51am |
re: #369 Charles
You are adamant that Creationism and ID are one and the same thing
I do not see it that way
and neither do a ton of people including Antony Flew and many other credentialed academics
scientists
and thinkers
not just Big feral Ots like me
Yes
there are "creationists" and religionists co-opting ID.
No doubt.
However -
This is not the same thing
as creationism and ID being the same thing.
This is sort of analogous to saying Darwinsim and Eugenics are the same thing.
The deception is on all sides, not only one.
Herein lies the stumbling block as far as "debate " is concerned IMO.
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MandyManners Wed, May 7, 2008 11:15:58am |
re: #391 Dotcoman
You'd think that if evolution existed man would have evolved by now.
And all women on the planet would naturally blond, Buxom, and Blue eyed, and all the men would be hung like John Holms.
Where are all the beneficial mutations?
That's presuming that big-titted, blue-eyed blonde women and men with big dicks are the end-all and be-all.
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yma o hyd Wed, May 7, 2008 11:15:58am |
re: #375 jcm
turtle
TURTLE
TURTLE
turtle
TURTLE
TURTLE
I do love that story!
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 11:16:15am |
re: #392 Killgore Trout
No CAIR has no significant say in schools curriculum, although they do occasionally sneak something in. But we can resist. With an "Academic Freedom" bill in place there will be no recourse if a teacher wants to teach an Islamic version of world history, social studies or science. I even suspect the Islamists would get more mileage out of those "academic freedom" bills than the Christians.
I went to a public school that allowed a witch to talk about being a witch and the joys of witchdom, but did not allow christian youth preachers to help talk with kids after a student died.
Tell me again how Christians are not being discriminated against?
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formercorpsman Wed, May 7, 2008 11:16:32am |
I will only add a small snippet as to the discussion.
Being in a discipline that sees an evolutionary process occur on a daily basis, (fracture healing, etc.) I can say there is an evolutionary process.
However, the ID movement does have a bend to counter puritanical evolutionism, by describing as equal time for theory.
I don't care either way.
Nonetheless, for everyone making an argument that somehow science is irrefutable, moreover, the honesty among purveyors in the field responsible for irrefutably, you are wrong.
The process is irrefutable, no doubt.
But sitting on one side, claiming ID is politicizing what is an otherwise wholesome scientific existence is absurd.
The business of science has become a political animal, just as much as anything else in this country, and to think somehow there are pure professionals in the scientific realm not placing their own ideology above the scientific process is bullshit.
Absolute bullshit.
Global warming.
The problem is, it goes both ways. Just like everything, the possibility of gaining a monopoly limits honest acuity.
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loppyd Wed, May 7, 2008 11:16:33am |
re: #302 paxnhymn
ahhh...that's mah ssweeeet lil' ol' yankee sistuh!
{loppy}
In all honesty I can't speak intellgiently about the topic - I just don't know enough about it.
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sojerofgod Wed, May 7, 2008 11:16:58am |
re: #387 lawhawk
Well of course.
Trivia is more important than reality. You can't affect reality, but you can have lots of fun with trivia while waiting for the end!
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 11:16:58am |
re: #398 BabbaZee
Yep, that nicely sums it up.
Whenever two sides collide, you'll usually find the answer in the wreckage.
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 11:17:02am |
re: #392 Killgore Trout
Respectfully, you seem unaware of what is being taught in the public school curriculum.
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paxnhymn Wed, May 7, 2008 11:17:11am |
re: #380 LanceKates
Catholics are Christians.
Boo on you for trying to stir up that old argument.
Yes, I am a protestant Christian, and I stand up for the Catholic Church.
That's opening up a whole other can o' worms....
Yikes!
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Pope Insouciance IV Wed, May 7, 2008 11:17:22am |
If you all will promise to be nice to each other for a while, I'll tell you a true story of college shenanigans.
OK? Everybody settled down? Remember, no touching your neighbor. This happened many years ago at Rutgers University, on the main campus in New Brunswick, NJ. The classroom buildings were often used for night classes and remained open, and there were plenty of empty classrooms. An article appeared in the student newspaper soliciting women for a psychology study: fill out a questionnaire and earn five bucks (which was reasonable pay in the 70's). Just show up at such-and-such a room at this time, etc.
A number of young ladies responded. They were met by a young man who handed them the questionnaire. The first thing they noticed was that the questions were of a highly personal nature. They objected. Hey, he says, the questionnaires are all anonymous.
So they start to answer the questions.
All of a sudden the guy starts to disrobe. The ladies ask him what's going on? He says Sorry, this is part of the psychology experiment. I have to do this.
Well, they had plenty of goofy psych experiments at Rutgers, so they go back to the questionnaire.
Then they notice that the guy has started to *ahem* "choke the chicken."
This is to much for the ladies. They give him his questionnaires and demand their five bucks.
He doesn't have any money.
And so they go straight to the Dean, demanding their money and by the way, how could you let a psych experiment go on like that?
And the Dean says (altogether now) What psych experiment?
Turns out he was a freelancing Philosophy major in great need of professional help. Never did find out what happened to him, but he didn't graduate with the rest of us.
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 11:17:25am |
re: #397 right wing zephyr
We don't even know what we don't know. HOw could we possibly know what Stein doesn't know?
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Shug Wed, May 7, 2008 11:17:51am |
re: #397 right wing zephyr
We don't even know what we don't know. HOw could we possibly know what Stein doesn't know?
exactly.
Stein can think whatever he wants. It doesn't effect me, not 0.0000001%.
I have my own beliefs. I don't need to know other's feelings about things. None of us can prove anything to anybody else's satisfaction. IF people want to debate it, that's their business.
I'd rather focus on the maniacs who want to cut my throat and not worry so much about whether or not God made a horse or if it evolved from swamp gas.
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 11:17:55am |
re: #391 Dotcoman
unless that was a sad attempt at humor, that was one of the more moronic posts I have seen in my time here so far....
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snowcrash Wed, May 7, 2008 11:18:16am |
re: #396 mama winger
Mama, your new puppy looks like it should be in a Disney kids movie. Too cute! (might have to invest in those sticky tape lint rollers though)
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nyc redneck Wed, May 7, 2008 11:18:27am |
well, anyway, on a lighter note i planted spinach, turnips, beets, loose leaf lettuce and arugula this morning. yes, arugula. i put it in it's own special area and now call that part of the garden, the osama section. that is where all elitist greens will be planted.
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unrealizedviewpoint Wed, May 7, 2008 11:18:29am |
re: #353 Andopolis
The simple facts of creationism vs evolution
Given the concept of an omnipotent being, it becomes impossible to prove either theory. An omnipotent being could have created life, the universe and everything, exactly as we know it, 42 minutes ago, and all human knowledge and memory of events before then could have been created at the same time... how are we to know otherwise?
We all could have come to be exactly as (insert religion of choice here) says we did, on the other hand the evolutionists could be pretty much right.
It all becomes a matter of faith, whether in some sort of god(s) or science. You pays your money, you takes your choice, but you can't prove that you're right.
I read your whole post in 5 seconds.
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right wing zephyr Wed, May 7, 2008 11:18:29am |
re: #399 MandyManners
That's presuming that big-titted, blue-eyed blonde women and men with big dicks are the end-all and be-all.
Yes. Before we can evolve to this we have to agree where to evolve to.
It's a big hard, hard and writhing discussion. It's going to take some sampling and time.
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LanceKates Wed, May 7, 2008 11:18:35am |
re: #396 mama winger
I don't know. When I went to school, I don't remember evolution being taught to the exclusion of all other discussion. Of course, this was before there was fire. so things may have changed.
In high school (lutheran) we discussed both the science of evolution and the science of creation.
We didn't look at it from the Christian Story of Creation, just what evidence exists that things evolved and what evidence exists that suggest that evolution isn't the way it went.
My college, I didn't take biology, just Ecology (yes, a girl was part of my reasoning there.) so I don't know what they taught.
I have NO problem believing in microevolution... macro? eh. no.
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CyanSnowHawk Wed, May 7, 2008 11:18:35am |
re: #382 jorline
Proof from HuffPo that evolution's a myth...this moron has yet to evolve into anything close to human.
From a thread talking about Jenna Bush's wedding.
lessthanimpressed See Profile I'm a Fan of lessthanimpressed
Oh Man I hope some terrorist group finds out and drives a nuclear powered death trap right into the middle of the whol texas limestone scumbaf setup and kills everyone within a thousand milesReply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:04 AM on 05/07/2008
Well, there is your example of a failed mutation.
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Vergeltung Wed, May 7, 2008 11:18:42am |
re: #392 Killgore Trout
No CAIR has no significant say in schools curriculum, although they do occasionally sneak something in. But we can resist. With an "Academic Freedom" bill in place there will be no recourse if a teacher wants to teach an Islamic version of world history, social studies or science. I even suspect the Islamists would get more mileage out of those "academic freedom" bills than the Christians.
in that regard, I believe you are correct. (BTW, love the new avatar!)
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jamsler Wed, May 7, 2008 11:18:54am |
re: #250 BabbaZee
If I carry nothing else out or this thread, at least I'll have a link to that!
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maninthemiddle Wed, May 7, 2008 11:19:07am |
It's one of those "can't we have both" things.
There are ample examples of evolution - but not complete.
A few years ago (I've got the article stuffed on my computer somewhere) a group of scientists met in Britain. Knowing the difficulty in proving a negative, they sought scientific explanations for getting from A to Now - running the odds of various genome recombinates, etc.
Ultimately, they concluded that some force beyond those known had to lend a helping hand.
Most simply acknowledged "the force" but discarded monotheistic explanations of the mysterious force.
A few (some grudgingly, some less so) pointed to (gasp) you know who...
The point being - as Charles mentioned - one can be very comfortable with God being the force behind creation, and acknowledging evolution as one of the forces that are ongoing.
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WriterMom Wed, May 7, 2008 11:19:08am |
re: #409 Pope Insouciance IV
What is the point of your story?
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Ma Sands Wed, May 7, 2008 11:19:12am |
re: #339 opnion
Don't be confused....just don't give up wondering --that's a good starting place..... :)
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wolfie Wed, May 7, 2008 11:19:44am |
re: #36 Charles
By the way, there is nothing essentially "Christian" about creationism. The Catholic Church, for example, has specifically renounced creationism (and intelligent design) and stated that Darwin's theory of evolution is not opposed to Christian faith.
I'm very late to this thread, so someone has probably said this earlier.
The Catholic Church has said that evolutionary theory should be taken today as scientific fact and it should continue to be taught in Catholic schools as such.
The Catholic Church does not endorse "Creation Science."
The Catholic Church sees no reason at this time to teach ID theories in a science curriculum.
The Catholic Church emphatically and unreservedly believes that God created the universe and that it was the intelligent design of the Creator. When folks continually (sometimes even intentionally) confuse the philosophical or pseudo-scientific theories of Creatonism and ID with the belief in the Creator, they muddy the issue horribly.
Protestants,....Mama!.... please hear me!
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 11:19:52am |
re: #406 BulgarWheat
Yep, that nicely sums it up.
Whenever two sides collide, you'll usually find the answer in the wreckage.
I have a saying -
tear it all up
and then divide by 17
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zmdavid Wed, May 7, 2008 11:20:03am |
re: #398 BabbaZee
Some of the creation scientists might have actually changed there minds (to intelligent design) because of evidence that contradicted their earlier beliefs.
"Scientists" say it is impossible for creationists to change their minds, they are actually practicing deception.
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OldLineTexan Wed, May 7, 2008 11:20:13am |
re: #402 MandyManners
Oh, shit.
Oops, there go all of our attaboys for one day.
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yochanan Wed, May 7, 2008 11:20:21am |
G-D wrote the Torah/bible in the lang. people of the time would understand. A lot of it is metaphor and stories to teach us how to behave. An example would be G-D clearly knew we would be able to fly and go to the moon but if he told the people back then i doubt they would have a clue what he was talking about.
how can a finite being understand the infinite? we look at human history and wonder how they believed what they believed only a few hundred years ago wonder if the people a few centuries from now will say the same thing about us?
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Silhouette Wed, May 7, 2008 11:20:32am |
re: #414 nyc redneck
well, anyway, on a lighter note i planted spinach, turnips, beets, loose leaf lettuce and arugula this morning. yes, arugula. i put it in it's own special area and now call that part of the garden, the osama section. that is where all elitist greens will be planted.
Did you mean obama?
;-)
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BulgarWheat Wed, May 7, 2008 11:20:37am |
re: #427 BabbaZee
don't make me fetch the calculator, wench!
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paxnhymn Wed, May 7, 2008 11:20:38am |
re: #412 Vergeltung
unless that was a sad attempt at humor, that was one of the more moronic posts I have seen in my time here so far....
short though it may be......
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mama winger Wed, May 7, 2008 11:20:43am |
re: #413 snowcrash
Mama, your new puppy looks like it should be in a Disney kids movie. Too cute! (might have to invest in those sticky tape lint rollers though)
Yep. got lots of those on hand just in case :)
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jcm Wed, May 7, 2008 11:20:44am |
re: #408 paxnhymn
That's opening up a whole other can o' worms....
Yikes!
We've had some nasty ones over that.
Which I prefer not to revisit.
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looking closely Wed, May 7, 2008 11:21:22am |
re: #295 LanceKates
My Science book discusses evolution in every chapter, even those discussing physics.
Yet I am to believe that no one is trying to ignore Creationism or any variation of ID?
The theory of evolution has broad application outside of explaining just the origin of species, including application to economics and design (among others). I'm sure you could apply it to electoral politics, in fact.
So, this *ought* to come up from time to time in non-species settings (though I'd agree not in EVERY chapter).
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BabbaZee Wed, May 7, 2008 11:21:31am |
re: #428 zmdavid
Some of the creation scientists might have actually changed there minds (to intelligent design) because of evidence that contradicted their earlier beliefs.
"Scientists" say it is impossible for creationists to change their minds, they are actually practicing deception.
All sides are practicing deception based on identity politics
and the truth is squeezed between
it is always like this
but you were right before
it is more about power
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wolfie Wed, May 7, 2008 11:21:34am |
re: #339 opnion
Im confused. This guy was there to influence opinion. Planting seeds amounts to the same thing.
If he wasn't there to influenced opinion he should have just gone to the beach or a movie.
True. But a lot of protesters are there mainly for the attention!
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paxnhymn Wed, May 7, 2008 11:21:52am |
re: #423 WriterMom
What is the point of your story?
they didn't let the guy "finish the job"......
/ducks
:-D
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OldLineTexan Wed, May 7, 2008 11:21:59am |
re: #414 nyc redneck
well, anyway, on a lighter note i planted spinach, turnips, beets, loose leaf lettuce and arugula this morning. yes, arugula. i put it in it's own special area and now call that part of the garden, the osama section. that is where all elitist greens will be planted
