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Another 3600 Words from Fjordman

Sun, May 11, 2008 at 5:46:27 pm PDT

If you’d like to read another incredibly verbose attack by Fjordman that never deals with the basic issues we have with each other, here you go: To the Readers of Little Green Footballs.

(He’s “going over my head,” making a direct appeal to the lizard army, in a futile attempt to overcome my fearsome brainwashing abilities.)

My answer can be summed up in those three legendary words, “Where’s the beef?”

Despite the usual attacks on the people and organizations who’ve brought facts to light about European fascist groups and their relatively slick modern incarnations (without ever disputing the truth of those facts), all of the points Fjordman makes in this essay are peripheral to the very simple, very direct question that I’ve articulated over and over: is it morally right—or wise—to make alliances with European groups who have fascist backgrounds and (in the case of the Vlaams Belang) continuing fascist connections?

To me the answer is obvious: no.

Fjordman has taken a different path.

Follow the link in the left sidebar at Brussels Journal, right next to Fjordman’s article, titled ‘British Nationalist Forum’, to see what kind of people he’s hanging out with these days. Here’s a good place to start: rivers of blood - British Nationalist Forums.

UPDATE at 5/12/08 12:55:20 pm:

Øyvind Strømmen also replies to the latest volley of verbiage: eurofascism.info - To the readers of 3600 words too many.

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734 comments

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1 Zach_the_Lizard  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:47:27pm

Interesting.

2 Noam Sayin'  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:48:32pm

For the last time, Fjordman. Trim the posts down.

/didn't actually read it.

3 blue_like_jazz  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:48:42pm

ah, fjordman... we hardly knew ye.

i'm afraid that you will be found on the losing end of this issue.

4 Thanos  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:49:00pm

Belien's running ads for the same forums in his sidebar, or he was a while back. Now that they are outted, I don't think they care anymore.

5 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:49:05pm
6 Slumbering Behemoth  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:49:27pm

Must. Obey. Lizard. King.
/

And again, Happy Mother's Day to all you Lizard moms out there.

7 Thanos  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:49:42pm

doh, the essay is at Belien's place.

8 Zach_the_Lizard  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:50:21pm

I think Fjordman's waters were polluted when the Nazis invaded, and the pollution never floated away.

9 the_vig  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:50:39pm

Ha ha, this "fjordman" guy believes we are different races. Isn't that quaint.

10 freedombilly  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:50:48pm

I disagree with Fjordman. I think. I can't remember.

Charles, please tell me if I disagree with him.

My thoughts are in your hands...

11 Slumbering Behemoth  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:51:37pm

re: #5 taxfreekiller

Water, you say.

I was thinking it was something else...

12 experiencedtraveller  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:52:25pm

Fjordman overreacts.

13 Alouette  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:53:57pm

I think he's pining for the fjords.

14 Slumbering Behemoth  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:54:03pm

Experiencedtraveller understates.

15 Attaboid  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:54:37pm

Bah, humbug.

16 NY Nana  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:55:45pm

re: #12 experiencedtraveller

A regular drama queen...but so is my 8 year old granddaughter. She is hilarious..he is not.

He has gone over to the dark side.

17 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:56:38pm

Kinda odd that he waited all this time to say nothing again.

18 Globular Cluster  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:56:58pm

Despite Fjordman's pro-Israel stance, he consistently fails to disavow and terminate his relationship with BNP and other neo-Nazi groups. Those who wish to fight Jihad cannot ally themselves with the groups that only 60 years ago were exterminating Jews, Gays, Catholics, Russians and others. It must be remembered that the Nazis killed more Jews in a decade than Islam has during its entire history. Now they fear the Islamization of Europe, but these are allies we must avoid.

I honestly don't see why Fjordman and Atlas can't acknowledge the basic truth of Vlaams, the BNP, Le Pen, and simply denounce them. What is the problem?

19 Charles  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:57:19pm

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Kinda odd that he waited all this time to say nothing again.

I think he's had this one in his hard drive for a long time.

20 wahabicorridor  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:57:19pm

Fjordman, I've just finished reading your piece (saw it in the spinoff links before Charles posted).

I'm sorry. Honestly, I am. Some of the work you do is superb.

But you should change your nic to 'Faust'.

21 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:57:45pm
Johnson has continued posting negative remarks about the website Atlas Shrugs.

Since when?

/and that's only the first paragraph

22 fsjonesy  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:58:16pm

Look Who's Off His Meds Again!

23 WhiteRasta  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:58:22pm

I really can't be arsed to bother with him, anymore.

When you sup with the Devil, you better have a long spoon.

24 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:58:30pm
25 debutaunt  Sun, May 11, 2008 5:58:39pm

Again, I'm going to fjart in his general direction.

26 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:00:25pm

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Fjordman made his choices and we, the LGF Lizards, made ours. What is there left to discuss?

27 WhiteRasta  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:00:47pm

re: #25 debutaunt

SNORT, SNORT!

28 Lively  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:01:26pm

Didn't want to give him traffic.

29 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:02:29pm

That's one click I won't make.

30 nyc redneck  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:02:33pm

i remember when i used to see a post here from fjordman and i was so excited.

31 NY Nana  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:02:36pm

re: #18 Globular Cluster

Atlas never had the decency to even apologize to Charles, nor was she banned by the mensch she called her 'blog daddy' . Did you see it all unfold last October?

As a proud Jew and Zionist, she was the biggest shock of all.

32 Charles  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:02:51pm

The past seven months have been a real eye-opener for me.

33 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:03:12pm
34 Jimmah  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:03:20pm

I see a lot of typing up there Fjordman...

35 darkster2400  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:04:02pm

wasn't he one of the good guys?

36 BulgarWheat  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:04:49pm

re: #35 darkster2400

once upon a time. once upon a time.

37 winston06  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:04:53pm

The future of Europe is very dark as I see it

38 Pastorius  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:05:17pm

I've asked these people, repeatedly, to define their terms.

I am most interested in hearing how they define the following words:

Race

Ethnicity

Culture.

They're pretty squishy, especially on the word "ethnicity."

39 Charles  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:05:59pm

re: #38 Pastorius

I've asked these people, repeatedly, to define their terms.

I am most interested in hearing how they define the following words:

Race

Ethnicity

Culture.

They're pretty squishy, especially on the word "ethnicity."

Life's too short to wait for that.

40 Psaturn  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:06:16pm

Interesting that the Fjordman had to mention he was writing a review of a ook about anti semitic Islam and then anti semitic Christian book...

what does that mean?

41 madmax517  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:06:17pm

Does he have any peripheral sympathies with the retard white power friends of luap nor or the paultard army? I know the only man who can save america often was one a white supremacy radio show.

Can't we all just get along? Hope! Change! and Evan Almighty is on HBO right now.

42 Thanos  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:06:52pm

re: #19 Charles

I think he's had this one in his hard drive for a long time.

Fjordman's all ego and steam. Count the "I"s in his essays. To willfully discount facts because the fact originated with someone you dislike is the height of foolishness. Because "x" is a commie, we can't trust what facts they have posted, even though those facts can be independently researched and verified. Even though those facts are available at other sources.

By his logic we should have ignored MEK when they told us about Quds force supplying arms and training to the Mahdis, and the groups that told us of the Syrian reactor. After all they can't be real because the information originated at a tainted source.

43 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:07:24pm
The irony is that at the same time as I was declared persona non grata at LGF and publicly compared to a well-known Nazi apologist by the blog owner, the German writer Udo Ulfkotte suggested that I am actually "an artificial figure (a team) created by the US Secret Service." Since I have such a colorful and diverse list of critics, I am considering putting up a hotline for all those who don't like me: "If you believe Fjordman is a closet Nazi, press 1. If you believe Fjordman is working for the CIA, press 2. If you're a radical Feminist and think Fjordman is a male chauvinist pig who is just as bad as the Taliban, press 3. If you're a Muslim and think Fjordman is an infidel Zionist pig and want to cut off his head, leave the death threats after the beep."

How about, if you want Fjordman to get to the [expletive deleted] point, press four?

/I can't figure what the hell he's trying to get at

44 lawhawk  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:07:51pm

Well, that's time I'm never going to get back.

45 Globular Cluster  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:07:53pm

re: #31 NY Nana

Atlas never had the decency to even apologize to Charles, nor was she banned by the mensch she called her 'blog daddy' . Did you see it all unfold last October?

As a proud Jew and Zionist, she was the biggest shock of all.

It really is a shame she can't admit her mistakes and patch things up. She lost relatives in the Shoah and now accepts the allegiance of neo-Nazi groups. A very serious loss of perspective that is disturbing and depressing.

46 Yankee Division Son  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:08:10pm

Sorry Fjordman, my answer is .. "Nein!"

47 NY Nana  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:08:33pm

re: #37 winston06

Sadly, Eurabia has already arrived.

48 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:08:44pm

Way too much verbosity...

Not gunn' read it. Wouldn't be proodent at this juncture...

49 William_Ryan  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:09:36pm

Sheesh Charles - please, whatever you need to do, let this end. Not b/c I think you're wrong (on the contrary, you're 100% right on this) but b/c for some weird reason, I feel compelled to read each of his responses. Reading a fraction as much as his posts got me through my Master's curriculum with flying colors. So please, for the love of god, find less verbose adversaries.

On a serious note though, it's telling that with all that prose, he says so little. Basically, from what I read, he just throws out a whole lot of stuff that's indirectly related and lets that suffice as his 'argument' or response. Whatever. You've pwned him every way that one can pwn someone yet he keeps coming back for more. What a masochist. If he didn't score a point by now he's not going to. But I don't think this will be the end of it.

50 wahabicorridor  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:09:44pm

re: #48 christheprofessor

Hi ya! How's the pooch?

51 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:10:08pm

re: #35 darkster2400

wasn't he one of the good guys?

/he lost me when adamantly insisted, from the other side of the Atlantic, that the U.S. was on the verge of a full blown race war

52 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:11:03pm

re: #50 wahabicorridor

howdy! beautiful and asleep on the couch... howzabout you?

53 jjdaniels[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:11:14pm
54 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:11:57pm
I intend to write about the causes of Christian anti-Semitism. I will publish the full essay about this at Atlas Shrugs, the website of the courageous Pamela Geller, but before I do that I will arrange a preliminary debate at the Gates of Vienna, most likely on Wednesday this week. You are welcome to join in.

/oh boy, doesn't that sound like fun?

55 The_Vig  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:13:09pm

The real question is where does Fjordman fall on the evolution vs. Intelligent design debats?

56 Charles  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:13:19pm

re: #54 Killian Bundy

/oh boy, doesn't that sound like fun?

A real gas.

57 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:13:58pm
58 Thanos  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:14:04pm

They're heeeeeeeeeeeerrrrre....

59 jjdaniels[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:14:19pm
60 NY Nana  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:14:45pm

re: #45 Globular Cluster

It really is a shame she can't admit her mistakes and patch things up. She lost relatives in the Shoah and now accepts the allegiance of neo-Nazi groups. A very serious loss of perspective that is disturbing and depressing.

Spot on. I cannot understand how anyone who like too many of us, who lost family in the Shoah could possibly even for a nano-second, ally themselves with the neo-nazis of the 21st Century.

BTW, after a number of lizards went after her, she then came in with her comment re her family who were lost in the ovens. It seemed like an excuse, to be honest. There just is not any 'excuse'.

And as we type, we are losing more survivors who can bear witness...

If we can contact Charles by email, she certainly could have.

61 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:15:35pm

re: #53 jjdaniels

Is there not a difference between race and ethnicity?

62 nyc redneck  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:15:45pm

re: #47 NY Nana

Sadly, Eurabia has already arrived.

well actually that's why fjordman is acting the way he is. he believes that.
i don't think it's such a grave situation over there that they need to go all 'nazi'. in england the enemy is only 2.7 % of the population and tho france is 8% that is hardly numbers for hysteria. my concern w/ these people is that they seem too eager to throw in w/ such distasteful groups who have more than shown their true colors in the past. it is too soon to get that desperate.

63 Josephine  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:16:06pm

Summary:

While he was making really good suggestions, he was unfairly declared persona non grata at LGF. Oh, the irony.

/

64 Macker  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:16:10pm

It (Fjordman) calls us leftists and Trotskyites. 'Scuse me while I laugh my ass off!

65 stevieray  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:16:15pm

As much as it pains me to say this, he is quite correct about the condition of Sweden. I have family over there, and they are looking forward to the time when they can move back to the States.

66 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:17:08pm

The PNB website is a real treat.

67 Charles  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:17:10pm

The four previous usernames of the now-banned 'jjdaniels':

Andrew_KJ
jasonkct
senor_lewie
jaxon

68 Macker  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:17:28pm

re: #56 Charles

How's about a Classical Gas?

69 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:17:28pm
The state-sponsored organization Expo has been treated as a credible source of information by LGF regarding Swedish politics, and was on at least one occasion linked to approvingly.

/got a linky for that?

70 Thanos  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:17:32pm

Note how the teacup racialist sets up the strawman in advance that if you don't agree then you must be a marxist....

71 snowcrash  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:17:33pm

Sorry fjordie. I do remember the recent dust up with GoV over genocide and that was more than enough to persuade me that LGF was on the right side of the issue. If your reputation is so tied up in the philosophy of these sites that our criticism of them insults you too, so be it. Wouldn't want to be aligned you.

72 wahabicorridor  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:17:52pm

re: #52 christheprofessor

howdy! beautiful and asleep on the couch... howzabout you?


We're very well, thanks. Off to finish my book.

Take care everyone. Charles, try not to pull your hair out, m'kay?

73 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:17:59pm

re: #64 Macker

I've always seen myself as an American Capitalist.

74 Charles  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:18:27pm

These threads have a way of pulling them out of the woodwork.

75 Pater Coop  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:20:05pm

Wow. I do not have time to wade through that essay. Could someone please summarize Fjordman's position in 25 words or less?

76 WriterMom  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:20:12pm

These threads are whacko flypaper...every nutter in Europe is going to be trying to get in.

77 WriterMom  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:20:41pm

re: #74 Charles

GAAAAAAAAAAAA you are in my brain.

Usually, that's BabbaZee's thing.

78 Noam Sayin'  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:21:12pm

re: #67 Charles

The four previous usernames of the now-banned 'jjdaniels':

Andrew_KJ
jasonkct
senor_lewie
jaxon

Dammit. And I just scrolled over him.

Now I'm dying to know what he said.

79 Globular Cluster  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:21:24pm

re: #53 jjdaniels

...
Europe, though, is a more thorny issue, since European borders were (mostly) based around ethnic lines. We Americans can easily claim to be "American" without throwing race into the mix. But in Europe, race and culture are more tied in their mindset (Only a leftist-Marxist would deny that) So the question to ask then is this: Can Europe make political parties where they feel they need to keep a national identity without falling into the trap of killing off minorities in their borders? Can they avoid National Socialism yet keep an identity they feel they deserve to keep?

But it's a totally false mindset. Europeans are no more racially pure than the most Heinz 57 of Americans. The Franks were originally a Germanic tribe that were forced into the area we now call France as a result of nomadic invaders from steppes. The Vandals started out in Germany, made their way across the European plain into France, then resided in Spain, then decided to cross Gibraltar and camp in North Africa, where they made their way to Tunis, then crossed into Sardinia, then crossed into Italy and sacked Rome.

Russia was founded by Norseman who settled in the are a of Kiev (a fact Russians strive with all their might to suppress). The Magyars made their way into Hungaria and had sex with all the existing residents, who then dispersed elsewhere. Most modern Greeks have nothing racially in common with Classical Greece -- the Slavs settled most of Greece and slavicized 90% of the population. A good portion of Germany is actually Polish by descent, or Prussian, a mix of Scandinavian and Slav. Speaking of Scandinavian, The Finnish language is most closely related to Turkish, because Finland was populated by Samoyed Reindeer pastoralists who originated in the northern Turkic steppe.

The idea of racial purity in any way shape of form in relation to Europe is ludicrous. It is a melting pot, it's just that the melting happened nearly 1-2000 years ago instead of in 2-300, as it did in America.

80 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:21:49pm

How about an open registration? My clue-bat is so ronery.

81 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:22:12pm

While I agree that we must be careful whom we choose for friends, if someone is willing to fight for our cause, even if they have questionable motives, I say by all means go ahead and fight.
I on the other hand will not support your cause simply because you fought for mine. After all, canon fodder is canon fodder, and I'd rather see the jack booted thugs die first.
On 9-12-01 even the most liberal of the dems in congress came together with patriots to denounce the acts of islamic terrorists. Glad they joined us, too bad they couldn't stay longer, but the smell oftheir politics was getting pretty steep.

82 Macker  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:22:15pm

re: #76 WriterMom

These threads are whacko flypaper...every nutter in Europe is going to be trying to get in.

Good, as long as registration isn't open we can sit back and watch. Please pass the popcorn please.

83 WhiteRasta  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:22:33pm

Good night and G-d Bless.

84 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:22:56pm

re: #77 WriterMom

GAAAAAAAAAAAA you are in my brain.

Usually, that's BabbaZee's thing.

Charles is the Master of Puppets!

85 Luigi  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:22:59pm

LGF is a centrist movement. Those who value democracy are centrists. Those who wish western civilization to survive are centrists.

86 Josephine  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:23:05pm

re: #75 Pater Coop

Wow. I do not have time to wade through that essay. Could someone please summarize Fjordman's position in 25 words or less?

My take on it is in #63.

87 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:23:16pm
The Norwegian blogger Øyvind Strømmen, a third-rate Islam apologist in the tradition of Karen Armstrong, has been repeatedly and enthusiastically linked to by LGF.

Again, got a linky for that?

/because you went off on another half dozen stream of consciousness gibberish filled paragraphs based on that original statement

88 Globular Cluster  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:23:25pm

re: #67 Charles

The four previous usernames of the now-banned 'jjdaniels':

Andrew_KJ
jasonkct
senor_lewie
jaxon

Yeah, I shoulda known by the vague odor in his post.

89 lawhawk  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:23:43pm

re: #74 Charles

These threads have a way of pulling them out of the woodwork.

Heh, go for the trifecta - throw together a posting that combined ID/evolution, abortion, and the VB gang. We could probably solve the planetary energy crisis with the amount of spontaneous combustion resulting. Of course, no one could probably approach that posting without asbestos gloves given the volatility as well.

On a more serious note, the fact that fjordman continues rambling on for 3600 words makes me wonder whether he's actually been paying attention to what you've been writing about of late or whether he was so busy writing that he couldn't be bothered. I sense that he simply had to vent about the latest perceived sleights, rather that address more substantive issues. Sad really.

90 Lively  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:24:19pm

re: #41 madmax517

Can't we all just get along? Hope! Change! and Evan Almighty is on HBO right now.

Did you mean BHO as in Barry?

91 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:24:56pm

re: #67 Charles

The four previous usernames of the now-banned 'jjdaniels':

Andrew_KJ
jasonkct
senor_lewie
jaxon

How did he get back in?

92 madisonsfriend  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:25:25pm

Saw a Ron Paul sign - a big one - braced on a truck along I-40 in Aberdeen, MD. I'm not drinking the water next time I go through there.

93 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:25:26pm
94 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:26:58pm

re: #75 Pater Coop

Wow. I do not have time to wade through that essay. Could someone please summarize Fjordman's position in 25 words or less?

Racism is ok by him as long as you hate Muslims. Its OK by him to hate Jews, Christians and anyone else as long as you also hate muslims.

95 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:27:46pm

re: #92 madisonsfriend

Saw a Ron Paul sign - a big one - braced on a truck along I-40 in Aberdeen, MD. I'm not drinking the water next time I go through there.

It tastes like....kool aid.

96 gman  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:28:14pm
The state-sponsored organization Expo has been treated as a credible source of information by LGF regarding Swedish politics, and was on at least one occasion linked to approvingly.

Wtf?

LGF also linked to articles from all over the moonbatosphere, but the reason for linking is clear from the content of the post. I've read Fjordman's work in its full context and I have no doubt he's all about protecting the purity of the white race.

97 mikeinmd  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:28:24pm

re: #92 madisonsfriend

Saw a Ron Paul sign - a big one - braced on a truck along I-40 in Aberdeen, MD. I'm not drinking the water next time I go through there.

My SIL lives up there. I take my own air....

98 David IV of Georgia  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:28:38pm

I read the first couple of sentences before my conditioning set in...

I'm glad he's anti-jihad.
I'm glad he want to keep to the standards of European culture known to my ancestors.
White does not make it right, however.
Aryan blood does not make me an ubermensch.

99 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:29:43pm

re: #3 blue_like_jazz

ah, fjordman... we hardly knew ye.

i'm afraid that you will be found on the losing end of this issue.

Unless he's on the winning side, due to continued Europeon deterioration. :(

100 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:30:12pm

Other than 'no jihadists,' what is the Fjordman vision for Europe?

Allan Bloom on Europe:

..."There the greatest events and the greatest men speak for monarchy and aristocracy as well as for democracy, for established religion as well as for tolerance, for patriotism that takes primacy over liberty, for privilege that takes primacy over equality of right. Belonging to one of those peoples may be explained as a sentiment, an attachment to one's own, akin to the attachment of father and mother, but Frenchness, Englishness, Germanness remain, nonetheless, ineffable.


[How much more so, this new corporate Europeanness. So is racial purity the only fallback position available because of a failure of imagination?]

Everybody can, however, articulate what Americanness is. and that Americanness generated a race of heroes-- Franklin, Washington, Hamilton, Jefferson, Lincoln and so on-- all of whom contributed to equality. Our imagination is not turned toward a Joan of Arc, a Louis XIV or a Napoleon who counterbalance our equivalent of 1789. Our heroes and the language of the Declaration contribute to a national reverence for our Constitution, also a unique phenomenon. all this is material for self consciousness and provides a superior moral significance to humdrum lives as well as something to study."

101 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:30:48pm

So, in a nutshell, Fjordmam and his pals are being bullied and Charles linked to two, count 'em two sources (no LGF links for this proposition provided) that Fjordmam considers to be from the dark side, you know his side. And then he babbles incoherently about it for a dozen or so paragraphs.

That's it.

/oh, and he invites all LGFers over to GOV next Wednesday for some good old fashioned Christian bashing

102 irish rose  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:31:53pm

*yawn*

103 Mich-again  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:32:33pm

The problem with writing essays that have no point is you can't tell when you're done.

104 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:33:44pm
105 nyc redneck  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:34:32pm

what does he want for europe and why does he think aligning w/ 'nazi' groups is the only way to achieve it?

106 David IV of Georgia  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:34:45pm

re: #103 Mich-again

The problem with writing essays that have no point is you can't tell when you're done.

You're done when the prof decides you get an A.

-former BS shoveler.

107 Alouette  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:35:19pm

re: #43 Killian Bundy

How about, if you want Fjordman to get to the [expletive deleted] point, press four?

/I can't figure what the hell he's trying to get at

Point? There's a point to get to? Enjoy the magnificent verbiage all around you!

He thinks he's Marcel Proust or somebody.

108 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:38:11pm

re: #107 Alouette

Well that's some tjemps perdu I'm not going to get back.

109 gman  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:38:11pm

Here's a typical Fjordman rant about protecting the white race.

110 NY Nana  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:40:39pm

re: #62 nyc redneck

Re Eurabia? This was mentioned in a UK paper last week, IIRC, but I could not find it. I did find this, from last year. It is already happening. I fear that they waited to try and close the barn door long after the camels horses had escaped.

Between the EU and the Chunnel? I can remember when the UK put dogs in quarantine if they were brought from abroad, to prevent the entry of rabies into the island nation...now? I would love to see the Chunnel destroyed, and the UK out of the EU. Too damned late.

111 Lynn B.  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:40:42pm

Fjordman: it's all about him.

112 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:40:45pm

It got dizzy by paragraph 9. It seemed like a verbal tilt-a-whirl, spinning in multiple directions at once and never getting anywhere.

113 Alouette  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:40:47pm

re: #108 jaunte

Well that's some tjemps perdu I'm not going to get back.

Why doesn't he just forget this blogging stuff and finish his novel? (It must be at 2500 pages and counting)

114 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:43:13pm

re: #109 gman

From your link:

"I’m sure the British are told that they are swamped by immigration because they used to be a colonial power. But mass immigration to countries such as Norway, Sweden or Switzerland proves that this is not related to past colonial history, since we don’t have any. It is related to one, and only one thing: We are born white."


On the contrary, you live in a rich society that is welcoming immigrants with a social safety net, medical care, old age pensions, the dole, all free for non-workers. It's a no-brainer, and nothing to do with skin color.

115 David IV of Georgia  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:43:55pm

re: #113 Alouette

Why doesn't he just forget this blogging stuff and finish his novel? (It must be at 2500 pages and counting)

You make me want to link to this.

116 herekittykitty  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:43:56pm

It's like trying to get a bunch of kindergarteners to read and understand the Constitution. You people are hopeless.

117 Psaturn  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:44:07pm

re: #79 Globular Cluster

That was interesting Globular Cluster!

118 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:45:17pm

re: #3 blue_like_jazz

ah, fjordman... we hardly knew ye.

i'm afraid that you will be found on the losing end of this issue.

Unless he's on the winning side, due to continued Europeon deterioration. :(

It'd be a shame to have to make an alliance of necessity with the nasties. I watched the Sturm und Drang without commenting. My only coherent thought is that Europe didn't really work out the whole fascist/nationalist/patriotic thing after The War. It seems they opted to sweep the whole thing into a closet. And then they locked the closet and tried to forget.

But there is no true forgetting, not of tribal identity. We're all born tribalists. We formed a super-tribe called America, for example. Complete with shadowy sub-tribes: Methodists, technicians, Bostonians, etc. Under duress, European Tribal Identities will resurface. Many questions will arise, and be answered.

The ones that interest me:

Who defines the tribe?
Where do they stand on the 'Patriotic Continuum' (to coin a phrase)?
119 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:46:27pm

What's that smell?

/*sniff sniff*

120 gman  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:46:54pm

Here's another Fjordman article for those who don't already know about this moron.

121 EC Marm  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:46:56pm

re: #116 herekittykitty

It's like trying to get a bunch of kindergarteners to read and understand the Constitution. You people are hopeless.


Since you're new, I have to ask the question, which people?

122 susanl  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:46:57pm

If they can't figure out that it isn't about race, then there is no hope for them.

As far as I can tell, the conflict of out times is about freedom and the willingness to fight for it. Freedom for EVERYONE, not just the ones in your "group".

S

123 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:47:04pm

re: #116 herekittykitty

You people are hopeless.

To whom do you refer?

124 NY Nana  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:47:08pm

re: #104 buzzsawmonkey

It would appear that Fjordman is kind of a Henry Fjord man when given the chance.

Great one, Buzz.

125 nyc redneck  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:47:25pm

re: #116 herekittykitty

It's like trying to get a bunch of kindergarteners to read and understand the Constitution. You people are hopeless.

who's hopeless?

126 Geepers  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:47:39pm
You people are hopeless.

Ah yes, the weary dismissal of the self-styled intellectual incapable of making a cogent argument to prove their point.

127 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:48:07pm

re: #116 herekittykitty

It's like trying to get a bunch of kindergarteners to read and understand the Constitution. You people are hopeless.

WHICH people?

128 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:48:38pm

re: #116 herekittykitty

It's like trying to get a bunch of kindergarteners to read and understand the Constitution L. Ron Hubbard's "Battlefield Earth.". You people are hopeless.

129 nyc redneck  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:49:18pm

fjordman is hopeless to throw in w/ nazi's. he is with out hope.

130 formercorpsman  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:49:55pm

re: #92 madisonsfriend

Hey, your talking about Harford county, right?

131 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:50:00pm

re: #109 gman

Here's a typical Fjordman rant about protecting the white race.

Hork! Since when is that ever going to happen? Even if the gene was suppressed through genocide, breeding and gene therapy, it was a mutation that has a chance to occur again and again for the rest of humanity's time on this Earth.

132 gman  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:50:09pm

re: #116 herekittykitty

It's like trying to get a bunch of kindergarteners to read and understand the Constitution. You people are hopeless.

bad kitty, you get dry food tonight.

133 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:50:30pm

re: #116 herekittykitty

It's like trying to get a bunch of kindergarteners to read and understand the Constitution. You people are hopeless.

Exqueeze me?

134 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:50:43pm

re: #132 gman

bad kitty, you get dry food tonight.

Is that what they call kitty litter now?

135 Globular Cluster  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:50:46pm

re: #117 Psaturn

That was interesting Globular Cluster!

Thanks. If you are interested in this kind of stuff, check out "Europe: A History" by Norman Davies.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Anyway, I'm off to Wendy's to get a hamburger.

136 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:51:01pm

re: #116 herekittykitty

It's like trying to get a bunch of kindergarteners to read and understand the Constitution. You people are hopeless.

?

137 WriterMom  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:51:11pm

SNEEEEF SNEEEEF

138 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:51:15pm

Dear Fjordman,

We have exchanged comments over the year. I think that you know quite well where I come from and that we have agreed on many things in the past and still agree on a lot.

If you will, permit me to be an honest broker here. The daughters of Europe are being raped on the streets of her cities. This inexcusable fact is the result of multi-kulti immigration that never required new immigrants to adhere to a social contract requiring immigrants to accept the organizing principles of their host society's rule of law.

We at LGF are no less outraged and concerned than you are about the direction Europe is going. I do not think you are a fascist and I do not think you want to live in anything other than a democracy. But the fact is there is a nebulous zone in the Euro anti-immigration movement which demonstrate all of the tendencies of protofascist anti democratic, even Nazi tendencies. It is not enough to be anti immigration. Most LGFers are pro-immigration, even pro Muslim immigration provided the immigrant comes with a loyalty to the host society and a genuine desire to live under the rule of law of their new home. Offering the benefits of citizenship to those who truly want to be part of building up their new homeland make economic and demographic sense.

It follows that Europe's leaders have completely screwed up by socially experimenting away the cultures and traditions that have made Europe a desirable place to live. It is also clear that the burden of immigration across Europe is at or near the point where things cannot continue. The leaders may not get it but the people do.

The current levels of immigration are not sustainable, legal or otherwise. So everything boils down to how will Europe handle this political crisis and that in turn focuses on WHO will handle it. Far right parties, openly fascist and otherwise seek to exploit voter anger for their own political gains. We at LGF see them as no less a threat to human liberty as the Islamists they seek to deport. There is good reason for this. Hitler was very much the product of a Thermidorian reaction to the communist; he exploited people's fear as the door to power. Hitler's intellectual and moral heirs, the BNP and their ilk seek to use Muslims as their passport to power.

As a Jew, I an not concerned about Europe's Jews, Israel and the world Jewish community can get our people out but we see these fascists exploiting fear and know these folks are no friends of ours. But we will no more stand aside and let Muslims be genocided than ourselves. As the first major victims of the worst the modern age can do, we have a moral obligation to prevent that from happening to others.

Europe is in danger. But the answer is democracy. There is a battle to be fought but it must be fought the right way with the right allies. If you really believe in Charles and the LGF community, this is the road. We will not break away from it. Trusting the crocodiles of the Euro-neonazis to eat us last is foolish and we won't do it. The answer lies getting existing Democratic right and centrist to take on the immigration issue. If you cannot subscribe to this, the most reasonable and safest course of action, go away and do not darken our door again. If you do adopt this as our common ground, you need only deal with the doubts you have created by your trying to get us to give up on our principles. We are not asking you to give up what you believe- only who your proposed partners.

The choice is simple, you can have the BNP and Vlaams or us. But you must make a clean break. Go with them or go with us; you cannot have it both ways.

Fascism in Europe has quietly smoldered for decades in post-war Europe. Hitler always did have an organic following. Today, his heirs see a chance to come back. We must and will prevent that from ever happening; the way to do so is keep them marginalized and at the periphery of European society.

Its up to you Fjordman. If Bush and McCain read one blog it is LGF. Are you with us or not?

139 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:51:27pm

Here kitty Kitty!

/*holding nail scissors behind back*

140 Sparkizzy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:52:38pm

Sorry to go OT here, but can someone suggest a good book on JavaScript for beginners?

141 Alouette  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:52:42pm

re: #116 herekittykitty

I smell ozone!

142 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:52:48pm

re: #133 MandyManners

Exqueeze me?

OK (gives Mandy a naughty squeeze)
...But seriously, is that cluebat warmed up? I have a funny feeling it might get a workout tonight.

143 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:53:08pm

re: #2 Noam Sayin'

For the last time, Fjordman. Trim the posts down.

/didn't actually read it.

Hey, can someone trim it down to, oh, 50 words or so so I can read it? Spot read it, but couldn't get to the point so I stopped.

Does that make me A.D.D.?

144 Noam Sayin'  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:53:14pm

Shall I make popcorn?

Who's got a beer for your ol' pal, Noam? I've been on the road.

145 Alouette  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:53:16pm

re: #140 Sparkizzy

Sorry to go OT here, but can someone suggest a good book on JavaScript for beginners?

O'Reilly series.

146 FrogMarch  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:53:23pm
European fascist groups and their relatively slick modern incarnations


can you say: Modern American Progressive?

147 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:53:52pm

re: #100 jaunte

you understand the issue exactly

148 Sparkizzy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:53:55pm

re: #138 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

Excellent post.

149 WriterMom  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:54:28pm

re: #144 Noam Sayin'

Shalom Noam.

150 Sour Grapes  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:54:59pm

Who is this Fjordman person? And why should I care about him?

151 Noam Sayin'  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:55:05pm

re: #143 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I suggested to him in a post long ago that he should look for someone who could edit his stuff.

Didn't realize at the time he was editing out the nationalist bile.

152 Josephine  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:55:29pm

Psycho Typer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

"You start a conversation you can't even finish it
You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything
When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed
Say something once, why say it again?"

153 BlueCanuck  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:56:00pm

re: #143 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nah, that just means your bullshit filter was working over time.

154 Sparkizzy  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:57:05pm

re: #145 Alouette

O'Reilly series.

Well, the reviews for this book say it's not quite beginners material.

155 WriterMom  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:57:09pm

re: #152 Josephine

Psycho Typer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa
ya better run run run oh run run run run awaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
oh oh oh ooooooooh
ayyyay yayayayayaaaaaay

156 Noam Sayin'  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:57:17pm

re: #149 WriterMom

Shalom Noam.

Shalom, Writermom.

157 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:57:19pm

re: #138 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

Stellar post #1,726,987,736,729,623,190 in a row, it seems....

158 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:58:21pm

If Charles is watching and inclined to answer...

Why does clicking on herekittykitty's user profile show 22 comments posted, but this LGF search for herekittykitty's comments only yields one.

/I have only come here seeking knowledge

159 experiencedtraveller  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:59:25pm

re: #150 Sour Grapes

Who is this Fjordman person? And why should I care about him?

Do your homework although you may find the required reading a tad verbose.

;)

160 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 6:59:44pm

re: #150 Sour Grapes

Who is this Fjordman person? And why should I care about him?

A loquacious fellow traveler who's made a fateful choice.

You may notice I'm not piling on; I think LGF's done a fine job of that already. I'm just wondering if blow torching tailfeathers is such a good idea, this early in the game. We may need to make a disturbing accommodation with Fjordman and his ilk before this is over.

This is a bad situation, and it'll get worse before it gets better.

161 Charles  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:00:47pm

Just received from the forum manager at British Nationalist Forum, who's apparently watching his referrer logs closely:

Just to clarify? Fjorman has nothing to do with the British Nationalist Forum microbanner in the Brussel's Journal sidebar. It is an automated blogad, much like Google Adsense. I think the writer owes Fjordman a public apology. Also, though a pro-Nationalist message board; we are actually officially proscribed and shunned by the BNP and its loyalist faction, because we allow free and unfettered debate even when the conversation may be unflattering to Mr. Griffin himself. Also, we have Jewish members, and are far too restrictive for the tastes of the average racist and nutzo. Come on over. We'd be happy to debate you leftsts anytime.

Some of their best friends are Jews! Come on over!

162 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:01:18pm

re: #158 Opilio

If Charles is watching and inclined to answer...

Why does clicking on herekittykitty's user profile show 22 comments posted, but this LGF search for herekittykitty's comments only yields one.

/I have only come here seeking knowledge

That's because the "search range" for the LGF search is limited. You need to expand the search range to encompass LGF in its entirety to find all 22 comments.

163 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:01:37pm

I don't know who this Fjordman guy is but I don't trust anybody who's name starts with two consonants. My spell checker doesn't like it either.

164 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:02:29pm
165 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:02:48pm

re: #161 Charles

Leftists?

166 experiencedtraveller  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:03:10pm

What the hell is a leftsts?

167 BlueCanuck  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:03:20pm

re: #161 Charles

We're leftists? WTF, and I just had my apartment redone in NRA styling too.

/going to have to check their dictionary definition.

168 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:03:46pm

re: #164 savage_nation

Leftists?

169 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:03:48pm

re: #163 theparson

I don't know who this Fjordman guy is but I don't trust anybody who's name starts with two consonants. My spell checker doesn't like it either.

Current spell checker's don't learn heuristically; you can usually add a word to a custom dictionary the app stores...

170 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:04:10pm

re: #166 experiencedtraveller

What the hell is a leftsts?

/anyone to the right of Himmler

171 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:04:10pm

re: #138 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

Thanks. Please do not seek an editor. I make a point to read every word you write (with the exception of things that you write that I do not see).

You make me smarter. Thanks again.

172 Alouette  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:04:21pm

re: #154 Sparkizzy

Well, the reviews for this book say it's not quite beginners material.

OMG, that book is the BEST! But what can I say, I've been javascripting professionally for 10 years. There are websites that have code tutorials for beginners.

173 Geepers  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:04:21pm

Did we just get called "leftists"?

174 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:04:35pm

re: #161 Charles

We'd be happy to debate you leftsts anytime.

*WHACK*

175 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:04:48pm

re: #170 Killian Bundy

/anyone to the right of Himmler

/left

176 WriterMom  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:05:05pm

re: #161 Charles

we have Jewish members

OY VEY

177 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:05:07pm

re: #173 Geepers

Did we just get called "leftists"?

No. "Leftsts."

178 Zach_the_Lizard  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:05:14pm

re: #173 Geepers

Did we just get called "leftists"?

Oh yes we did.

Hoist the red flag, comrade, let's get collective!

179 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:05:21pm

I'd like to buy a vowel!

180 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:05:34pm

re: #170 Killian Bundy

/anyone to the right of Himmler

Actually, Himmler and the rest of those Nazis started out as good little Leftists.

181 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:05:35pm

re: #177 MandyManners

Tjrotskyites!

182 Geepers  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:05:46pm

Fat Bastard Vegetarian (#171),

You should hang out drinking with him all night, it's a trip.

183 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:05:57pm
184 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:05:59pm

re: #181 jaunte

Tjrotskyites!

LOL!

185 WriterMom  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:03pm

re: #179 MandyManners

Left testes?

186 nyc redneck  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:09pm

re: #138 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

i hope you teach at a university. gosh, they need you.

187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:29pm

re: #168 DesertSage

Leftists?

Left side of the Atlantic facing north?

188 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:32pm

I'm so far left, I'm right...

/well, y'all know what I mean...

189 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:37pm

Lefty Just Wants Free Stuff!

190 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:40pm
191 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:45pm

OH, crap! Mr. Holland's Opus is on and I'm missing it! Dang it! And it's such a heart warming story.

192 Albertanator  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:46pm

Friends on all sides...please Charles and Fjord I think we all need to do some compromising...we have a horrific foe.......Islam....

Let's humble ourselves a bit on both sides.....A house divided is never a good thing!

193 Geepers  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:51pm

Zach_the_Lizard (#178),

Hoist the red flag, comrade, let's get collective!

LOL.

194 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:06:53pm
195 BlueCanuck  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:07:01pm

re: #185 WriterMom

Don't go there, we had enough of that type of thread weeks ago. :)

196 formercorpsman  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:07:11pm

re: #173 Geepers

Oh yeah, we'll who could blame him?

Left is right, up is down, black is white.

News to you Geep.

197 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:07:35pm

re: #185 WriterMom

Left testes?

He ain't got none.

198 NY Nana  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:07:36pm

re: #161 Charles

Just received from the forum manager at British Nationalist Forum, who's apparently watching his referrer logs closely:


Some of their best friends are Jews! Come on over!

/Don't look at me! I am Jewish, and wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Some of their best friends....hmmm, NK, Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chumpsky..I know I am leaving some names out...any suggestions, lizards?

199 Jimmah  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:07:37pm

re: #160 PSGInfinity

We may need to make a disturbing accommodation with Fjordman and his ilk before this is over.

I can't see any scenario in which skinhead power would be needed to save the day. I can imagine many in which the kind of 'accomodation' you refer to could be absolutely ruinous.

200 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:07:47pm

re: #173 Geepers

Did we just get called "leftists"?

By whom? Fjordman? Fred Thompson? John McCain? Hillary Clinton? Michael Moore?

201 formercorpsman  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:07:53pm

re: #179 MandyManners

Mandy, that was good.

202 BlueCanuck  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:08:53pm

re: #192 Albertanator

Yeah but you don't invite the non house trained dog up on the furniture. Some of those WN wingnuts are not even a proper ally for anybody. A thug is a thug is a thug.

203 Psaturn  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:09:01pm

Since Nazism is de rigeur in discussion...I was reading an interesting article on the religion of Nazism (a somewhat old Pagan, and yet modern version of Paganism...

[Link: koenraadelst.bharatvani.org...]

204 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:09:02pm

re: #199 Jimmah

I can't see any scenario in which skinhead power would be needed to save the day. I can imagine many in which the kind of 'accomodation' you refer to could be absolutely ruinous.

So can't I and can I ... now. Ten - fifteen years from now...

205 Geepers  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:09:05pm

PSGInfinity (#200)

See #161.

206 David IV of Georgia  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:09:05pm

I'm so conservative I get annoyed that the Gauls, Vandals, and Visigoths disturbed the Pax Romana. Left? Did I leave something?

207 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:09:21pm

re: #162 DesertSage

That's because the "search range" for the LGF search is limited. You need to expand the search range to encompass LGF in its entirety to find all 22 comments.

The search I used had the date range set to April 10, 2007 - May 11, 2008.   herekittykitty didn't register until April 14, 2007.

I remain perplexed.

208 stevieray  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:09:23pm

re: #138 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

The so-called intellectuals of Europe have run the continent for two generations now, and have destroyed the cultural underpinnings of their societies -- the better to replace them with something enlightened and egalitarian -- and the odds of the common folk reclaiming their heritages is slim.

Europe is probably beyond hope. It is dying, and its corpse will serve as a host organism for dozens of different socio-political pathogens... diseases our own "intellectuals" will slavishly adore and emulate in the coming decades.

Fjordman is wrong in his allies, but he is right in his rage. The establishment lies are thick and deep, and most of the elites cannot be considered friendly to the natives anymore. I hope he realizes the errors he made in joining forces with the neo-Fascists, and rejoins the good guys. Properly channeled, he could do alot of good.

209 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:09:55pm

Anybody else getting weird stuff on their Firefox? I had to switch back to Safari.

210 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:10:08pm

re: #182 Geepers

Fat Bastard Vegetarian (#171),

You should hang out drinking with him all night, it's a trip.

It would be fun, but he would get as much stimulation talking to Rainman as me. But I do know some funny jokes.

211 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:10:26pm

re: #190 ploome hineni

re: #201 formercorpsman

8-)

212 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:10:36pm
213 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:11:34pm

re: #212 savage_nation

What weird stuff? I use FF and my browser is fine.

Showing the same number comment two or three times and boxes are collapsed.

214 Zach_the_Lizard  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:11:53pm

re: #209 theparson

Anybody else getting weird stuff on their Firefox? I had to switch back to Safari.

I report no strange-ness here, and I am using the latest nightly build of Firefox 3.

215 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:12:22pm
216 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:12:32pm

re: #163 theparson

I don't know who this Fjordman guy is but I don't trust anybody who's name starts with two consonants. My spell checker doesn't like it either.

Um. Mr. Parson, sir,...   your name starts with two consonants. Nevertheless, you must learn to trust yourself.

217 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:12:51pm

re: #205 Geepers

PSGInfinity (#200)

See #161.

Thanks, Geepers, I suspected that was it. I saw it as Standard Self-Defending Denunciation (SSDD)...

218 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:13:13pm

The enemy of my enemy doesn't always apply, especially when you have to be allied with a racists. When the fighting is done you just have to turn and fight in the other direction, better to fight alone.

219 Jimmah  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:13:48pm

re: #204 PSGInfinity

So can't I and can I ... now. Ten - fifteen years from now...

Might as well say the same thing about the Islamists, no?

Fuck 'em.

220 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:13:48pm

BTW...Happy Mother's Day Mandy. (i remember how well you enjoyed all the hubbub about your (55th?) birthday this week).

221 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:13:49pm

re: #207 Opilio

The search I used had the date range set to April 10, 2007 - May 11, 2008. %u2002 herekittykitty didn't register until April 14, 2007.

I remain perplexed.

From what I can gather, the LGF search engine will only let you search in one month increments.
If that's incorrect, then I must differ to a higher power.

222 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:14:09pm

Firefox version 2.0.0.14 for Mac

223 Arbalest  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:14:09pm

I tried reading Fjordman’s stuff . . .

Fjordman, if you’re reading this thread, #138 Ayatollah Ghilmeini has it right. Heed his words.

Rather than continuing to attack LGF, you need to get the message: you and your compatriots need to get certain bloggers and blogs, and the various European political parties to lose (and be seen to publicly lose) all connections to the various neo-Nazi, fascist, extremist groups.

This has to be a real purge, not some publicity stunt.

The neo-Nazis, fascist, and similar groups do not share all Western values, and will eventually stab Europe in the back, figuratively if not literally.

A lot of non-Western cultures are buying off on certain Western values, like “all men are created equal”, “racism (judging others by skin color, etc.) is wrong”, “slavery is illegal and immoral”, and a few others.

At a minimum these values have made the world a very much better and safer place. Why go back to the way things had been? Why allow anyone to screw up a good thing?


Politics is frequently described as a pendulum. It looks like Europe is waking up to a few threats.

Keep the neo-Nazis, and Europe will see a problem it’s already seen; it was the wrong direction 70 years ago, no need to make this mistake again. The pendulum will likely complete its swing and start back the other way. Europe will likely re-live a previous nightmare or two.

Lose the neo-Nazis, and the pendulum might swing far enough to clean up the welfare disaster that plagues Europe. Tired of able-bodied men on the dole? The claim that workers need to be imported to jobs that Europeans (or Americans) won’t do is a myth. Now is the chance to cleanup various legal loop-holes.

Lose the neo-Nazis and other problems, and it’s likely that very many moderate Europeans will support you and your political party / parties. The talk about genocide and other such nonsense can then be sent back to the writers of alternate-reality comic books, for use as the next plot line for sullen teenaged Cheeto-heads.


You and your compatriots can waste more of your time and energy trying to undermine others who oppose the same threat you oppose, and damaging yourself and others in the process, or you can clean your house, and then get back to solving real problems and fighting real threats.

The ball is in your court; the move is yours.

224 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:16:25pm

re: #216 Opilio

Um. Mr. Parson, sir,... %u2002 your name starts with two consonants. Nevertheless, you must learn to trust yourself.

As we say in Texas, awe contraire (little Texan lingo for ya), my nom de plume starts with two consonants. My name has a consonant followed by a vowel (David). My spell checker likes my name!

225 Mich-again  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:17:03pm

re: #114 jaunte

On the contrary, you live in a rich society that is welcoming immigrants with a social safety net, medical care, old age pensions, the dole, all free for non-workers. It's a no-brainer, and nothing to do with skin color.

You always get more of whatever you subsidize.

226 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:18:05pm

re: #218 jainphx

The enemy of my enemy doesn't always apply, especially when you have to be allied with a racists. When the fighting is done you just have to turn and fight in the other direction, better to fight alone.

We can believe that, with all our hearts, now. My point is that if we irreparably breach our relationships now, we'll not be able to repair them if we really need them later.

227 Mich-again  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:18:34pm

re: #220 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW...Happy Mother's Day Mandy. (i remember how well you enjoyed all the hubbub about your (55th?) birthday this week).

Oh you're liable to get a chair thrown at you for that one! Never guess a woman's age.

228 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:19:33pm

Actually Fjordman and the other frogs have fallen for the reasoning of the scorpion. "Why would I sting you?".

In the older version of the parable the scorpion stings the frog just as journey ends and the scorpion can scurry to shore. When they find their rights taken by the latest infestation of European Fascism what will they say then? "At least we beat the Islamo-nazis"?

Sore solace, that.

229 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:19:35pm

re: #225 Mich-again

From Houston, I must say, si, you are correcto.

230 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:19:55pm

Damn troll commented and ran.

/now what?

231 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:20:29pm

re: #220 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW...Happy Mother's Day Mandy. (i remember how well you enjoyed all the hubbub about your (55th?) birthday this week).

TTTHHHHPPPPPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

(It was my 40,000th brithday.)

232 beachkatie  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:20:31pm

Were is kitty,kitty?You guys done wacked it?

233 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:21:31pm

re: #192 Albertanator

Friends on all sides...please Charles and Fjord I think we all need to do some compromising...we have a horrific foe.......Islam....

Let's humble ourselves a bit on both sides.....A house divided is never a good thing!

That sort of council was given to Chang Ki Chek in China in the 1930's. Look what happened to him and China.
Bad alliances also fail among the opressive types. Look how Russia fared when they tried to be friends with Hitler.

234 Jimmah  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:21:33pm

re: #226 PSGInfinity

I guess by a similar token we should also be nice to the Islamists today in case we ever need them against the extreme right in some future as yet unforseen scenario?

235 Noam Sayin'  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:22:30pm

re: #230 Killian Bundy

Damn troll commented and ran.

/now what?

If someone is an asshole, let it be free.

If it comes back, smack it with a clue bat.

236 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:23:04pm
237 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:23:13pm

re: #219 Jimmah

Might as well say the same thing about the Islamists, no?

Fuck 'em.

Aye, Jimmah, there's the rub: are fascistic Euro's really equal to, or even worse than, Islamic barbarians? Right now, the answer seems to be either A) Yes or B) We don't want to take the chance.
Q: What if the answer is C) No?

238 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:23:21pm

re: #161 Charles

It is an automated blogad, much like Google Adsense.


Uh, not really that ad has been on Brussels Journal for months. It's not a random rotating ad. It's always the same and never changes. It's an intentionally placed ad.

239 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:23:22pm

re: #220 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW...Happy Mother's Day Mandy. (i remember how well you enjoyed all the hubbub about your (55th?) birthday this week).

Thats mean. Even I wouldn't stoop to that level.

Ducks under desk.....

240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:23:36pm

re: #231 MandyManners

TTTHHHHPPPPPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

(It was my 40,000th brithday.)

Quack......TeeHee...Diarrhea
Ducks......Giggles......Runs.

241 Mich-again  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:23:56pm

re: #226 PSGInfinity

My point is that if we irreparably breach our relationships now, we'll not be able to repair them if we really need them later.

I disagree. Its like trying to tread water holding onto a cinder block in case you need it later.

242 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:24:36pm

re: #224 theparson

As we say in Texas, awe contraire (little Texan lingo for ya), my nom de plume starts with two consonants. My name has a consonant followed by a vowel (David). My spell checker likes my name!

Ah. I had assumed we were talking noms de guerre, since that what I believe fjordman is (the name, not the individual).

/BTW, that is an exceptionally fine name you got there. Truly outstanding, second to none.

243 MrArchieBunker  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:25:15pm

European center/rightists desperately need a Wm. F. Buckley type figure who can purge fringe elements and build a successful modern conservative movement (emphasis on modern).

244 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:25:56pm

re: #226 PSGInfinity

You have to remember what happened after the fighting stopped in Europe, Russia became our worst enemy even after we gave them all the arms to defeat the Nazi's. Look at where were at to this day.

245 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:26:28pm

re: #243 MrArchieBunker

Buckley's work is coming undone.

246 nyc redneck  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:26:40pm

re: #192 Albertanator

Friends on all sides...please Charles and Fjord I think we all need to do some compromising...we have a horrific foe.......Islam....

Let's humble ourselves a bit on both sides.....A house divided is never a good thing!

how do you suggest we compromise? i'd like to know. i do agree we have a horrific foe. . . islam.

247 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:26:42pm

re: #231 MandyManners

(It was my 40,000th brithday.)

So, tells us about the epic battle between Cromagnon and Neanderthals.

LOL

248 MrArchieBunker  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:27:27pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

It sure is, and at lightning speed...

249 gman  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:28:08pm

re: #237 PSGInfinity

Aye, Jimmah, there's the rub: are fascistic Euro's really equal to, or even worse than, Islamic barbarians? Right now, the answer seems to be either A) Yes or B) We don't want to take the chance.
Q: What if the answer is C) No?

both bad and I don't want to take out a ruler to measure which one is more bad than the other.

We don't need either of them.

250 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:28:16pm

re: #231 MandyManners

I'd be willing to bet your---lets see---27.

251 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:28:27pm

re: #242 Opilio

"theparson" tis my pen name (nom de plume). David is my nom de my momma (as, I assume, yours to be).

252 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:28:50pm

re: #244 jainphx

We gave them a lot, no doubt, but their production was tremendous as well. We didn't give them the T-34s, nor did we give them the majority of their airpower...

253 OldLineTexan  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:28:54pm

re: #250 jainphx

I'd be willing to bet your---lets see---27.

suck-up

254 Jimmah  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:29:06pm

re: #237 PSGInfinity

Aye, Jimmah, there's the rub: are fascistic Euro's really equal to, or even worse than, Islamic barbarians? Right now, the answer seems to be either A) Yes or B) We don't want to take the chance.
Q: What if the answer is C) No?

The answer, is A. See WW2 for details.

255 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:29:21pm
256 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:29:26pm

OK, I read it. Now, what? Total waste of brain power.

257 BlueCanuck  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:29:28pm

re: #250 jainphx

I'd be willing to bet your---lets see---27.

Nope I have it on good authority that Mandy is 32. . . . . and holding.


/what my mom always says.

258 3 wood  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:29:31pm

Hey Fjordman, I read your nearly endless essay. You took all that space to say that you really don't mind collaborating with neo-nazis.

Guess what? We already knew that.

Next time, just get to the point already.

259 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:29:50pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

Buckley's work is coming undone.

By whom?

260 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:30:08pm

re: #234 Jimmah

I guess by a similar token we should also be nice to the Islamists today in case we ever need them against the extreme right in some future as yet unforseen scenario?

We've seen that line of reasoning from the Left. As for the Right, it comes down to both the question I asked in #237, and
D) Whether we can persuade the errant to adopt our assertive, nationalistic, democratic ideals?

261 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:31:39pm

re: #251 theparson

"theparson" tis my pen name (nom de plume). David is my nom de my momma (as, I assume, yours to be).

Indeed. A fine name, that. And one which peaked in popularity in the 50's and 60's.

262 Globular Cluster  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:31:46pm

Nazism was actually Leftist, not Rightist.

Discuss.

263 MrArchieBunker  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:32:00pm

re: #259 rawmuse

Well, by men like Tom Delay, Dennis Hastert and Jack Abramoff for starters

264 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:33:10pm

re: #244 jainphx

You have to remember what happened after the fighting stopped in Europe, Russia became our worst enemy even after we gave them all the arms to defeat the Nazi's. Look at where were at to this day.

A freed Eastern Europe without a major hot war with the Russkies sounds better than a psycho Hitler to me. We made a deal with a demon to beat a worse demon.
Welcome to the big leagues.

265 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:33:19pm

re: #261 Opilio

And now you try to date me? I mean date me not... you know... date me.

266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:33:25pm

re: #261 Opilio

Indeed. A fine name, that. And one which peaked in popularity in the 50's and 60's.

Emily and Jacob the most popular name in the past ten years. (Heard that somewhere on the news yesterday, don't know why I recall it.)

267 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:33:32pm

re: #263 MrArchieBunker

Well, by men like Tom Delay, Dennis Hastert and Jack Abramoff for starters

They are scarcely adherents of the creed of Mr. Buckley, you must admit.

268 David IV of Georgia  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:33:44pm

re: #224 theparson

Um. Mr. Parson, sir,... %u2002 your name starts with two consonants. Nevertheless, you must learn to trust yourself.
As we say in Texas, awe contraire (little Texan lingo for ya), my nom de plume starts with two consonants. My name has a consonant followed by a vowel (David). My spell checker likes my name!

Saul killed his thousands, and David killed his ten thousands.

269 Noam Sayin'  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:33:53pm

What's the over/under on Mandy's age?

I'm thinking mid-30s, with dynamite legs and a smokin' bod. She's just got that kind of sexy going on.

Was that out loud?

270 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:34:20pm

re: #262 Globular Cluster

Nazism was actually Leftist, not Rightist.

Discuss.

I think that's been pretty well established, GC.

271 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:34:21pm

Socialism > Oppression > Fascism > Hate > Genocide > Misery

Freedom/Liberty > Equality > Respect > Prosperity

/get a clue, Fjordman

272 gman  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:34:52pm

re: #258 3 wood

Hey Fjordman, I read your nearly endless essay. You took all that space to say that you really don't mind collaborating with neo-nazis.

Guess what? We already knew that.

Next time, just get to the point already.

ethno- nationalists aka racialists aka racists write some of the most long- winded essays I have ever seen. I'm not a psychologist but I do believe there is a little self- guilt going on behind the scenes. It could also be the equivalent of Islamic Dawah. The racist is trying to sweet talk you to their point of view.

273 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:34:52pm

re: #262 Globular Cluster

Nazism was actually Leftist, not Rightist.

Discuss.

Possibly

274 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:35:04pm

re: #252 christheprofessor

Your right, but how many Merchant Marines and ships were lost on the Murmansk runs. we did as much or more for them than we did for Britain. The racists will always turn on you .

275 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:35:14pm

re: #249 gman

both bad and I don't want to take out a ruler to measure which one is more bad than the other.

We don't need either of them.

That's fine, for now. We could well face a forced choice in 10-15 years, however...

276 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:35:16pm

re: #262 Globular Cluster

Nazism was actually Leftist, not Rightist.

Discuss.

Overall, it was Authoritarian, and that is a place you can arrive at from either direction.

277 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:35:29pm

re: #267 rawmuse

They are scarcely adherents of the creed of Mr. Buckley, you must admit.

Hey Raw, when I read your comments, I hear them in my brain with Pierce Brosnan's voice. Just noticed.

278 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:36:29pm

re: #264 PSGInfinity

Yes , but you will end up fighting them when they turn on you, and they always will.

279 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:36:33pm

re: #277 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You're welcome!

280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:36:37pm

re: #269 Noam Sayin'

Yep.

281 Mich-again  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:37:33pm

re: #262 Globular Cluster

Nazism was actually Leftist, not Rightist.

If you take it far enough the radical left coincides with the radical right.

282 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:37:34pm

re: #277 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey Raw, when I read your comments, I hear them in my brain with Pierce Brosnan's voice. Just noticed.

Hey, that's pretty good. Who's voice do you hear when Noam comments?

283 MrArchieBunker  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:37:44pm

re: #267 rawmuse

A fair point to be sure, but these men (and others) have all but destroyed the Republican brand if you will. A brand that Mr. Buckley successfully resuscitated.

284 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:37:52pm

re: #262 Globular Cluster

Leftist identifiers:
-Nazism was a popular movement that crossed over all the class and regional lines.
-The Nazis portrayed themselves as the party of national pride, and claimed to stand up for the 'little guy', especially the worker.
-Many of them endorsed a cultural relativism that identified truth or falsehood, right or wrong, as depending on one's ethnic origin.

285 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:37:52pm

re: #262 Globular Cluster

Nazism was actually Leftist, not Rightist.

Discuss.

Maybe not

286 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:38:08pm

re: #255 savage_nation

Now thats what I call a friend.

287 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:38:29pm

Good Evening all!

I'm tired of Fjordman. I"m also tired of Jimmah.

It sucks that they keep asserting themselves and have to be dealt with.

288 OldLineTexan  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:38:37pm

re: #281 Mich-again

If you take it far enough the radical left coincides with the radical right.

It's a Circle of Government kind of thing.

289 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:38:54pm

re: #274 jainphx

Your right, but how many Merchant Marines and ships were lost on the Murmansk runs. we did as much or more for them than we did for Britain. The racists will always turn on you .

The Russians were fascists, just as the Nazis. Race was secondary.

Hence the unwillingness to make the deal with the devil today...

290 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:39:07pm

re: #254 Jimmah

The answer, is A. See WW2 for details.

That generation was decimated in the war. Subsequent generations have shown nothing like the same fiery nature, or ruthlessness. Jimmah, you're correct in pointing out the Euros of the past were the nastiest MoFo's on the planet. My counterpoint is that I no longer believe that's the case.

291 Globular Cluster  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:39:13pm

re: #270 DesertSage

I think that's been pretty well established, GC.

The British Nationalists just called LGF readers "Leftist". Apparently they don't think it's been well established....

292 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:39:54pm
293 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:40:12pm

re: #283 MrArchieBunker

True, it is a setback. Things will have to get worse before they can get better, methinks. Still, I do not consider Mr. Buckley's work to be the less on account of the small men who borrowed his pajamas for a bit.

294 nyc redneck  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:40:54pm

i resent being called a leftist. how absurd,

295 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:41:02pm

re: #282 DesertSage

It's because of the avatar that I hear PB for Raw.

So, you guessed it. Noam sounds like a cartoon rodent (think chipmonk, etc.).

Mandy? You guessed it. Sam Kinison.

296 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:41:31pm

re: #289 christheprofessor

There I agree.

297 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:41:36pm

re: #278 jainphx

Yes , but you will end up fighting them when they turn on you, and they always will.

I understand your point, but that sounds a bit like worrying about the second or third team you'll play in the playoffs, taking your eye off the current opponent...

298 Slumbering Behemoth  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:41:47pm

:sigh: Fine, fine. Go ahead and side with the fascists in the struggle against, well, um, other fascists. Just don't expect me to come along for that love fest.

Also, please keep in mind that when the inevitable happens, and you come limping back, don't be surprised if you find that the mat beneath my front door reads: Fuck Off!

299 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:42:01pm

In 1926, Stalin and Bukharin began a campaign against "Trotskyism."
Trotsky was a leftist. I suppose this makes Fjordman a Stalinist.

300 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:42:03pm

re: #285 theparson

You're relying on Wikipedia to give you the answer?

Nazism was a Leftist/totalitarian ideology. It was an offshoot of Marxism, originally known as a "Third Way" ideology....much the same as Fascism was a Third Way ideology.

301 Mich-again  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:42:40pm

re: #288 OldLineTexan

Is there much difference in the message from Ron Paul and Dennis Kuchinich?

302 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:43:29pm

re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth

:sigh: Fine, fine. Go ahead and side with the fascists in the struggle against, well, um, other fascists. Just don't expect me to come along for that love fest.

Also, please keep in mind that when the inevitable happens, and you come limping back, don't be surprised if you find that the mat beneath my front door reads: Fuck Off!

I don't think he will be back.

303 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:43:37pm

re: #301 Mich-again

On all things yes, except the current war.

304 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:43:41pm

re: #299 jaunte

Embrace Fjordmanism!

305 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:43:51pm

re: #285 theparson

Maybe not

You can arrive at it either way. Nazi stands for nationalist Socialist. Democrats are Socialist but not nationalist. Republicans are Nationalist but not socialist. So what it takes is for a democrat to sprout balls, or a republican to lose his brains.

306 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:44:17pm

re: #265 theparson

And now you try to date me? I mean date me not... you know... date me.

Not at all. I freely admit that I was born in the waning days of the Eisenhower presidency. In the year of my birth, the top ten U.S. baby names were:

Michael   Mary
David    Susan
James   Linda
John     Karen
Robert   Donna

In 2007:

Jacob    Emily
Michael   Isabella
Ethan    Emma
Joshua   Ava
Daniel    Madison

307 jaunte  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:44:26pm

re: #304 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Djrink!

308 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:44:35pm

re: #297 PSGInfinity

There is some truth in that, but I'm still not up to making someone that I know is just using me, a friend.

309 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:44:36pm

re: #301 Mich-again

Is there much difference in the message from Ron Paul and Dennis Kuchinich?

The biggest difference is that Kucinich wants to give people free stuff and RP doesn't.

310 MrArchieBunker  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:44:36pm

re: #293 rawmuse

"Still, I do not consider Mr. Buckley's work to be the less on account of the small men who borrowed his pajamas for a bit." Great turn of a phrase! Re. Fjordman, I tuned him out a long time ago. I have a genetic prejudice toward people who talk or write a lot and say little or nothing.

311 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:45:42pm

Cripes on a freakin' crutch!

OK, so on Yahoo's main news page, here's the Headline

"Young Evangelicals are leaving the GOP".

Okay, got it.

Source.

H.U.F.F.I.N.G.T.O.N P.O.S.T.

312 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:45:57pm

re: #287 ggt

Good Evening all!

I'm tired of Fjordman. I"m also tired of Jimmah.

It sucks that they keep asserting themselves and have to be dealt with.

Now, aint that the twoof?

313 guftafs  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:45:57pm

It is well-known in Sweden that Hübinette referred to by Fjordman is seriously disturbed person. The claim that he co-founded the magazine Expo and was its chief editor is, according to former top member of Sverigedemokraterna, Tommy Funebo, Hübinette's own CV. This has also, according to Funebo, been denied several times by Expo. Question is how much credibility you should lend a man with serious psychological problems.

Fjordman's mantra that Expo is a state-sponsored organization is true, sort of. Also according to Funebo, Expo received 175,000 SEK this year from the State's Cultural Board (Statens kulturråd). In that sense, you could also claim that Sverigedemokraterna, who for the period 2006-2010 will receive 50,000,000 SEK in grants at the state and municipal level, to be state-sponsored. In fact, most things are state-sponsored in Sweden.

314 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:46:02pm

I was once asked to describe myself in 25 words or less. My response:
"Concise".

315 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:46:10pm

re: #241 Mich-again

I disagree. Its like trying to tread water holding onto a cinder block in case you need it later.

Ah, that's the essential point, my friend: How do we keep them at arm's length, show them the errors of their ways, rehabilitate them so that we CAN embrace them when the chips are down?

316 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:46:23pm

re: #300 DesertSage

I think this was all discussed on the Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg threads of weeks ago. Progressive ideologies are movements of the left. Another great book I would not have read if not for LGF.

317 OldLineTexan  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:46:26pm

re: #301 Mich-again

Is there much difference in the message from Ron Paul and Dennis Kuchinich?

You have to understand that I completely believe that the "political spectrum" is a serpent with its tails in its mouth.

Meanwhile, Kookcinich and Luap Nor differ IMO only in the degree of insanity. But I do not get further than their Surrender Now policies before I cease listening.

/as a resident of the Houston area, I am all-too familiar with Luap Nor

318 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:46:41pm

re: #305 JeremyR

You can arrive at it either way. Nazi stands for nationalist Socialist. Democrats are Socialist but not nationalist. Republicans are Nationalist but not socialist. So what it takes is for a democrat to sprout balls, or a republican to lose his brains.

Lets make that a spine instead of balls.

319 DesertSage  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:46:48pm

re: #311 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's in the spinoff links.

320 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:46:49pm

re: #311 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You doubt the validity of HuffPo? Hersey!

321 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:47:16pm

re: #300 DesertSage

You're relying on Wikipedia to give you the answer?

Nazism was a Leftist/totalitarian ideology. It was an offshoot of Marxism, originally known as a "Third Way" ideology....much the same as Fascism was a Third Way ideology.

I am not seeking the answer. Neither am I relying on Wikipedia, I am referencing Wikipedia as a source of information for discussion.

322 Globular Cluster  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:47:36pm

re: #300 DesertSage

You're relying on Wikipedia to give you the answer?

Nazism was a Leftist/totalitarian ideology. It was an offshoot of Marxism, originally known as a "Third Way" ideology....much the same as Fascism was a Third Way ideology.

They were socialist. Check. They believed in large central government. Check. Like Margaret Sanger and other progressives, they believed in Eugenics. Check. They hated Jews, like today's Leftists. Check. They espoused populist wealth distribution (a "Volkswagen in every garage"). Check.

The only reason that Nazis are called right wing is because they stood in opposition to the Communists (and because the liberal MSM loves to associate today's conservatives with Nazis). But it is more accurate to see the conflict in the Wiemar as a battle between two Left wing groups vying for supremacy. I think, at least.

323 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:47:39pm

re: #314 rawmuse

I was once asked to describe myself in 25 words or less. My response:
"Concise".

I'd have gone with "levity"... ;)

324 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:48:03pm

re: #319 DesertSage

I never go there. But, does it refer to the fact it is on YAHOO's freaking main page like it is a real article?

325 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:48:07pm

re: #308 jainphx

There is some truth in that, but I'm still not up to making someone that I know is just using me, a friend.

Like I just replied to Mich-again:

Q: How do we keep them at arm's length yet show them the errors of their ways then rehabilitate them so that we CAN embrace them when the chips are down?

326 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:48:21pm

re: #306 Opilio

Not at all. I freely admit that I was born in the waning days of the Eisenhower presidency. In the year of my birth, the top ten U.S. baby names were:

Michael %u2002 Mary
David %u2002 %u2002Susan
James %u2002%u2002Linda
John %u2002 %u2002 Karen
Robert %u2002 Donna

In 2007:

Jacob %u2002 %u2002Emily
Michael %u2002 Isabella
Ethan %u2002 %u2002Emma
Joshua %u2002%u2002Ava
Daniel %u2002 %u2002Madison

Well, if Mandy told the truth, when she was born Grog Ugg and Err were the top three names.

327 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:48:59pm

re: #269 Noam Sayin'

I agree with your assessment.

/Also, with enough moxie to completely devastate any offenders.

328 OldLineTexan  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:49:01pm

re: #320 mitthrawnurdo

You doubt the validity of HuffPo? Hersey!

Nestle!

/No, seriously, I go to HuffPoo for all the latest in Christian voting gossip n' facts.

329 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:49:20pm

The best analysis of 20th century governance, in all their myriad, tyrannical forms is in Jonah Goldberg's book "Liberal Fascism". If you have not read it, get it. I would give you my copies but I already gave them away.

330 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:49:32pm

re: #314 rawmuse

I was once asked to describe myself in 25 words or less. My response:
"Concise".


Thats cheatin', refering to yourself as a dictionary, you cover all bases.

Mind you, quite clever.

331 Mich-again  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:49:33pm

re: #315 PSGInfinity

How do we keep them at arm's length, show them the errors of their ways, rehabilitate them so that we CAN embrace them when the chips are down?

I have no answers as to how to rehabilitate neo-nazis. Good luck with that.

332 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:49:55pm

re: #326 JeremyR

Well, if Mandy told the truth, when she was born Grog Ugg and Err were the top three names.

You're forgetting "Ornk."

333 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:50:23pm
334 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:50:37pm

Is Fjordman an academic?

Those sort have mastered the art of saying nothing using millions or words.

/No, I don't think all academics are like that, but enough are.

335 Purple Prose  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:51:02pm

re: #79 Globular Cluster

Speaking of Scandinavian, The Finnish language is most closely related to Turkish, because Finland was populated by Samoyed Reindeer pastoralists who originated in the northern Turkic steppe.

Actually, Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language most related to Hungarian and Estonian. Only a minority of scholars think that this language family is related to Turkish, so this is not a settled question.

At any rate, language is very different from heredity. Languages are often transmitted ultra-genetically, by conquest or adoption.

Only DNA analysis can establish relationships.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: eeuropeanhistory.suite101.com...]

336 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:52:00pm

re: #332 MandyManners

You're forgetting "Ornk."

SORRY 8-( I thought that one wa stops the year before. My bad.

337 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:52:16pm

re: #329 rawmuse

GMTA!

338 Render  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:52:23pm

No Fjordman, for the 10 billionth time, no.

STUFF
IT,
R

339 christheprofessor  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:52:27pm

re: #334 mitthrawnurdo

Is Fjordman an academic?

Those sort have mastered the art of saying nothing using millions or words.

/No, I don't think all academics are like that, but enough are.

For the record, I can say absolutely nothing in no words!

/top that!

340 Tom Kratman  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:52:35pm

I don't know a great bloody deal about Vlaams Belang, frankly. Just out of curiosity, what in their platform are we identifying as "fascist?" Alternatively, are we seeing a large number of its members who are fascist, whatever the official platform may be? In the latter case, whose definition of fascism are we using, beyond the standard left wing, "fascism is all that of which I disapprove that ls to the right of Lenin?"

341 3 wood  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:52:35pm

re: #272 gman

ethno- nationalists aka racialists aka racists write some of the most long- winded essays I have ever seen. I'm not a psychologist but I do believe there is a little self- guilt going on behind the scenes. It could also be the equivalent of Islamic Dawah. The racist is trying to sweet talk you to their point of view.

Could be. It reminds me of when one of my students writes an endless essay that actually says very little. They are trying to hide their lack of intellectual insight with volume of words. And the less real material they have to say, the more space they take up saying it.

I mean really, it all boils down to Fjordman trying to justify collaborating with some very evil people.

Hey Fjordman! Here's a clear thought from me to you - jam it sideways.

342 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:53:27pm

re: #333 savage_nation

LOL!

Well, she said 40,000 years old. And all this time I thought I was the last surviving link.
What pisses me is that they turned me down for the GEICO comercials, too scary.

343 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:53:50pm

re: #331 Mich-again

I have no answers as to how to rehabilitate neo-nazis. Good luck with that.

Me neither. I've noticed that discussions tend to generate heat, or light. I don't have the light, anymore than anyone else it seems. It's literally all I can do to try to tamp down the heat. Sigh.

344 3 wood  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:53:55pm

re: #315 PSGInfinity

How do we keep them at arm's length, show them the errors of their ways, rehabilitate them so that we CAN embrace them when the chips are down?

You can't. If the penny does not drop for them on their own, we sure can't do it for them.

345 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:53:57pm

re: #332 MandyManners


Err?

Actually, there are many jokes in that, but I'm not qualified to find them.

346 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:54:02pm
347 Render  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:54:51pm

re: #340 Tom Kratman

VB is a neo-nazi political party and has been since the day it was founded, by self-admitted neo-nazi's.

SIR,
R

348 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:55:36pm

re: #341 3 wood

Evenin' Wood.


Just doesn't stand up the same. So, just "Hi Wood!"

349 3 wood  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:56:42pm

re: #348 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wood words in the evening too, my friend :)

Hi veg

350 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:56:44pm

re: #341 3 wood

My Dear Ole Dad stops reading when he gets to the 3 or 4th archaic big word. He figures they are used as a smoke screen --to cover-up
the author's incompetence.

351 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:57:20pm

I, too was born in the last few years of D David E's administration (a fellow Texan, I might add).

352 Tom Kratman  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:57:26pm

re: #228 Quilly Mammoth

Actually Fjordman and the other frogs have fallen for the reasoning of the scorpion. "Why would I sting you?".

In the older version of the parable the scorpion stings the frog just as journey ends and the scorpion can scurry to shore. When they find their rights taken by the latest infestation of European Fascism what will they say then? "At least we beat the Islamo-nazis"?

Sore solace, that.

Yeah...not a lot of solace. Moreover, a truly fascist regime in Europe wouldn't help their demographics much, if at all, as that would be as uncomfortable and strange as the Islamic variety. This would cause about as many young, fertile Euros (especially and critically, women) to flee.

They're almost certainly just screwed.

353 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:57:36pm

re: #344 3 wood

You can't. If the penny does not drop for them on their own, we sure can't do it for them.

That's a big chunk of why I stayed out of the fray, the first time. I'd've stayed out of this one, too. But I decided to wade in, and had a pretty good run, I think. Tamped down the heat a bit. A good night, I believe...

354 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:57:48pm

re: #344 3 wood

You can lead a horse to water . . . .

355 stevieray  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:57:50pm

re: #322 Globular Cluster


The only reason that Nazis are called right wing is because they stood in opposition to the Communists (and because the liberal MSM loves to associate today's conservatives with Nazis). But it is more accurate to see the conflict in the Wiemar as a battle between two Left wing groups vying for supremacy. I think, at least.

Yep. They were enemies because they were bitter rivals fighting over the loyalty of the same potential followers -- the angry young man/woman, and the bitter/resentful/left behind middle aged. The prescriptions offered for society differed only in the details... both demanded complete surrender to an all powerful and wise central state.

356 Thanos  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:58:43pm

re: #315 PSGInfinity

Ah, that's the essential point, my friend: How do we keep them at arm's length, show them the errors of their ways, rehabilitate them so that we CAN embrace them when the chips are down?

We've shown them the errors of their ways and they aren't rehabilitatable. (is that a word?) When you subsume your intellect and individuality to tribal nationalism you become a lost cause because after several years of that there isn't an individual left to rehabilitate.

357 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:58:59pm

re: #346 savage_nation

haha.

How did the sewer job go?

Only half covered in the good stuff. Tree roots, gotta love em. Old clay pipes suck, but I'm not gonna dig up the entire building to repipe it. We will flush copper sulfate down about once a month all summer to keep the roots down.
Felt sorry for the gal who called. She is nine months BIG and ready to pop. She was dating a guy while TDY and didn't learn he was married until after she was knocked up. She's a sweet heart.

358 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:59:07pm

Gotta go to bed. G'night all. G'night Jim Bob!

See ya in the Mornin' Wood! Heh!

359 3 wood  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:59:45pm

re: #353 PSGInfinity

I stay out of it too, other than to tell Fjordman to stick it where the sun don't shine.

360 Thanos  Sun, May 11, 2008 7:59:58pm

re: #322 Globular Cluster

They were socialist. Check. They believed in large central government. Check. Like Margaret Sanger and other progressives, they believed in Eugenics. Check. They hated Jews, like today's Leftists. Check. They espoused populist wealth distribution (a "Volkswagen in every garage"). Check.

The only reason that Nazis are called right wing is because they stood in opposition to the Communists (and because the liberal MSM loves to associate today's conservatives with Nazis). But it is more accurate to see the conflict in the Wiemar as a battle between two Left wing groups vying for supremacy. I think, at least.

You've got that right, it was the war of the black and the red.

361 guftafs  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:00:14pm

re: #334 mitthrawnurdo

Think I read somewhere he's working as a civil servant, so no.

362 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:00:15pm
363 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:00:58pm

re: #350 ggt

My Dear Ole Dad stops reading when he gets to the 3 or 4th archaic big word. He figures they are used as a smoke screen --to cover-up
the author's incompetence.

When I took the judges exam, the scorer told us that if he didn't feel we knew the material by the fifth sentence, he wasn't gonna read the sixth one. Fake it till ya make it doesn't always fly.
In Fjordmans case its fake it till they yawn.

364 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:01:46pm
365 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:01:48pm

re: #356 Thanos

We've shown them the errors of their ways and they aren't rehabilitatable. (is that a word?) When you subsume your intellect and individuality to tribal nationalism you become a lost cause because after several years of that there isn't an individual left to rehabilitate.

I'm sorry, I meant that as, largely, a rhetorical question. As I admitted upthread, I can ask the questions. I don't have the answers...

366 Karridine  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:01:55pm

Fjordman relegated to back burner, this OT:
"On Sunday, Myanmar's state television said the death toll from Cyclone Nargis had gone up by about 5,000 to 28,458 — with another 33,416 missing — though some experts said it could be 15 times that if people do not get clean water and sanitation soon.

"A natural disaster is turning into a humanitarian catastrophe of genuinely epic proportions in significant part because of the malign neglect of the regime," said British Foreign Secretary David Miliband.

"I would be amazed if there hadn't been about 100,000 who had died already ... what's more, hundreds of thousands more are at risk," he told British Broadcasting Corp. television.

Meanwhile, aid was piling up in foreign countries, awaiting approval from the junta."

EIGHTEEN Paragraphs down in a Yahoo report...

How can we (at LGF) apply persuasive energy to GET AID FLOWING?

367 3 wood  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:01:57pm

re: #358 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Got to hit the hay too.

Knowing that an ego maniac like Fjordman will read this, my middle finger is extended to you Fjordman. Now, go huddle up with your neo-nazi friends and suck your thumb.

368 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:02:43pm

All we can do is raise our children to value what we value; Continue to involve ourselves in the political process to limit government power and keep ourselves in a place where we are not part of the problem.

369 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:03:02pm

re: #354 ggt

You can lead a horse to water . . . .

But you can't make him drink? Sure you can, feed him salt! Jesus told us to be salt and light. Some say salt is a preservative, but it truth it makes you thirsty.

370 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:03:19pm

re: #365 PSGInfinity

Don't be sorry. You argued your point as a gentleman.

371 TalkinKamel  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:04:24pm

I really don't like the sound of that upcoming debate (debate? What's to debate?) about the origins of Christian anti-semetism. And I thought Fjordman, GoV and Pamela were all fearless anti-jihad fighters; so why would they go so far off-track as to have a group discussion about something so completely off topic from the WoT?

I really, really, don't like the sound of this. . .

372 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:04:43pm

re: #369 JeremyR

"These pretzels are making me thirsty."

Kramer, before the fall.

373 experiencedtraveller  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:04:46pm

re: #340 Tom Kratman

I don't know a great bloody deal about Vlaams Belang, frankly. Just out of curiosity, what in their platform are we identifying as "fascist?" Alternatively, are we seeing a large number of its members who are fascist, whatever the official platform may be? In the latter case, whose definition of fascism are we using, beyond the standard left wing, "fascism is all that of which I disapprove that ls to the right of Lenin?"

I am using Charles' opinion on fascism and wanna-be-fascists. Seems to be working just fine...

374 bosforus  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:05:32pm

savage, this might freak you out a little bit but hopefully you get a kick out of it...
I had a dream last night that you and I passed each other on the I-15. We were communicating on laptops through lgf while driving. You were driving a UPS truck. You were a woman.
:)

375 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:05:42pm

re: #362 ggt

In the year I was born . . .

I checked my birth year, and its full of idiots so why add one more name to THAT long list.

376 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:05:58pm

re: #357 JeremyR

Where I used to live (in a Far Western Suburb of Chicagoland), clay pipes were code. We had to have our's routed every year, just part of the annual budget.

377 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:07:01pm

re: #369 JeremyR

Good Point.

378 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:07:02pm
379 nyc redneck  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:07:51pm

re: #378 savage_nation

wow! was I hot or a big Jabba the Hutt wannabe?

LOL

380 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:08:01pm

re: #375 JeremyR

I can't remember that far back, I know Adolph wasn't given to many at the time.

381 Purple Prose  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:08:02pm

I can't help but think that responding is in fact what Fjordman wanted. It drove up the numbers of people reading his post at least tenfold, both those who disagree and agree with him. Better to ignore those you part company with, no?

382 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:08:34pm

NASA and I were born the same year.

383 bosforus  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:08:47pm

re: #378 savage_nation

wow! was I hot or a big Jabba the Hutt wannabe?

i wouldn't say you were "hot", but you were pretty cute. you had a nice smile. you probably would've looked hotter if i had been able to see you walk a package up to a house in that ups outfit.

384 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:10:51pm

re: #370 jainphx

Don't be sorry. You argued your point as a gentleman.

Thank you! And same to you!
One or three more posts, and it's a night for me...

385 theparson  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:12:39pm

Later, Lizards, gotta go to bed.
Courage.
Change.

Good night Mrs. Callabash... wherever you are.

386 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:13:04pm

re: #378 savage_nation

wow! was I hot or a big Jabba the Hutt wannabe?

Well, if you was a Jabba the Hutt wannabe, you'd have been HOT for real. Those UPS trucks have zilch for A/Cs, especially with the doors open.

387 Tom Kratman  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:13:08pm

re: #347 Render

VB is a neo-nazi political party and has been since the day it was founded, by self-admitted neo-nazi's.

SIR,
R

That doesn't help a lot. Who founded it? Their neo-nazi "credentials," if that's the word? The nazi attributes in their platform? Is fascism or nazism central to that platform or only central to some nut cases who attached themselves? Do they trace their ancestry to some Waffen SS regiment and/or Quislingesque movement? (Those seem possible.)

See, I get accused of being a fascist all the time. I'm not, of course, except by that tacit leftist definition I gave. (For one thing, to be a fascist you have to love government...and I don't.) I'm to the right (okay, way, _way_ to the right) of Lenin and they don't like my books...or me. Apparently, that's enough. I also get accused of racism with some regularity. I sometimes tell people to take that up with my wife who would be terribly surprised by the accusation. Those are, in any case, words that have become so overused, loosely used, and wrongly used that they've lost nearly all meaning.

So my question still stands.

388 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:13:33pm

re: #371 TalkinKamel

It is curious. I was thinking maybe they'll blame it on Reason and science but they souldn't do something that ridiculous, would they? But why would they go out of their way to criticise Christianity? I wonder what their gimmick is going to be.

389 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:13:50pm

re: #350 ggt

My Dear Ole Dad stops reading when he gets to the 3 or 4th archaic big word. He figures they are used as a smoke screen --to cover-up
the author's incompetence.

No patience for tedious loquacity, prolixity, and bloviation. A wise man.

390 Globular Cluster  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:13:57pm

re: #335 Purple Prose

Actually, Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language most related to Hungarian and Estonian. Only a minority of scholars think that this language family is related to Turkish, so this is not a settled question.

At any rate, language is very different from heredity. Languages are often transmitted ultra-genetically, by conquest or adoption.

Only DNA analysis can establish relationships.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: eeuropeanhistory.suite101.com...]

Of course, language doesn't determine race. But it is used, in conjunction with other data (e.g. archeological, genetic) to determine the migrations and relationships among certain populations. Obviously, it can't be used everywhere (American blacks speak English).

Finnish, then, according to my chart, is related to Mongolic, which is listed under Finno-Ugrian. According to Wikipedia, Mongolic is a member of the Altaic language branch, which includes Turkish. So my chart is probably wrong or Wiki is wrong, or maybe the Altaic and Finno-Ugric languages are related. In any event, it seems fairly clear that the Finns are rooted in the Samoyed tradition, and their language is not Indo-European, like most European languages. Thanks for the heads-up -- I didn't realize this was controversial.

391 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:14:15pm

re: #387 Tom Kratman

Search LGF for Vlaam Belang and you'll get a complete history.

392 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:14:37pm
393 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:14:53pm
394 Thanos  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:15:12pm

re: #371 TalkinKamel

I really don't like the sound of that upcoming debate (debate? What's to debate?) about the origins of Christian anti-semetism. And I thought Fjordman, GoV and Pamela were all fearless anti-jihad fighters; so why would they go so far off-track as to have a group discussion about something so completely off topic from the WoT?

I really, really, don't like the sound of this. . .

What I really suspect is that they are seeing the debate over here on ID, and trying to pry a few folks who might be upset about it out of the fold. We'll probably get called eugnicists again. There's a neo-luddite/populist streak to them if you haven't noted it before, it's one of the reasons most of the posters take the names of famous people in history.

395 jainphx  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:15:39pm

re: #385 theparson

Some say that was for Jimmy Durante's wife. He was an entertainer that I enjoyed.

396 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:16:14pm

re: #382 theparson

NASA and I were born the same year.

When I was in first grade, mom announced her birthday by proclaiming she was a hundred (she probably felt it that morning) and I, being gullible went and told that to the teacher.

397 bosforus  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:17:07pm

re: #393 savage_nation

/blushing

LOL
You look good as blonde.
Alright, that's all I stopped in for. Felt like the kind of thing I had to get off my chest before I could comfortably move on with my life.

398 Purple Prose  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:17:24pm
399 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:18:06pm
400 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:18:23pm

re: #392 savage_nation

Maybe the A/C is crap, but they make some good money for what they do.

And stay in shape as well. Sprinting packages to houses and businesses all day long keeps the fat off.

401 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:19:07pm

re: #371 TalkinKamel

I really don't like the sound of that upcoming debate (debate? What's to debate?) about the origins of Christian [Antisemitism]. And I thought Fjordman, GoV and Pamela were all fearless anti-jihad fighters; so why would they go so far off-track as to have a group discussion about something so completely off topic from the WoT?

I really, really, don't like the sound of this. . .

Europeans tried to bury their twin demons of hypernationalism and bigotry, of which Anti-Semitism was justly judged the worst. In retrospect, they should have confronted and worked through them, not suppressed them. Because, as we see, they're back, aggravated by an existential threat. And with the Utopians convinced that any non-Utopian is a caveman unfit for even for employment, the pressure will accelerate dramatically.

And people under pressure make many mistakes.

402 madmax517  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:20:06pm

re: #90 Lively

I suppose the Congressman played by Steve Carrell and obamanation have something in common by seeking change! Kind of funny the flick deals with corruption in Congress and barry O comes from corrupt Chicago politics. He might condemn lobbyists in DC, but says nothing about the evil of Mayor Dailey, Rezno et al.

403 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:21:03pm
404 PSGInfinity  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:21:30pm

re: #389 Opilio

No patience for tedious loquacity, prolixity, and bloviation. A wise man.

Yeah, what you's said!

405 Thanos  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:21:34pm

re: #387 Tom Kratman

Karel Dillen. You can get his newly revised biography from VB's store. It's titled from a Wies Moens poem. (Who is Wies Moens? Translate the third link down here.)

you can see more here and here.

406 TalkinKamel  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:22:33pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

It is curious. I was thinking maybe they'll blame it on Reason and science but they souldn't do something that ridiculous, would they? But why would they go out of their way to criticise Christianity? I wonder what their gimmick is going to be.

Kilgore, I'm honestly not sure. Knowing what a militant uber-Catholic Dymphna is, I'd be surprised they're going after Christianity; I'm afraid they might be trying to find some way to blame anti-semetism on the Jews themselves. You know, they unbalanced rinso-white European culture long before Islam, blah, blah, blah.

Maybe they're going to play the, "We want a pure Christian religion, with no non-European elements," or, "We want a more naturalistic, Christian religion." (The Nazis, remember, were very big on nature, and ancient pagan religions. Played right, you really could get ninnies like Dymphna go along with this, I think.)

Or, they really might blame reason and science! I agree, it's pretty ridiculous---but they are pretty ridiculous at this point.

The only thing I'm sure of is that, whatever their gimmick, I'm not going to like it.

407 Purple Prose  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:23:21pm

re: #390 Globular Cluster

Of course, language doesn't determine race. But it is used, in conjunction with other data (e.g. archeological, genetic) to determine the migrations and relationships among certain populations. Obviously, it can't be used everywhere (American blacks speak English).

Finnish, then, according to my chart, is related to Mongolic, which is listed under Finno-Ugrian. According to Wikipedia, Mongolic is a member of the Altaic language branch, which includes Turkish. So my chart is probably wrong or Wiki is wrong, or maybe the Altaic and Finno-Ugric languages are related. In any event, it seems fairly clear that the Finns are rooted in the Samoyed tradition, and their language is not Indo-European, like most European languages. Thanks for the heads-up -- I didn't realize this was controversial.

Actually, in direct DNA-based support of your argument, the modern Finnish are genetically very closely related to other Scandinavian populations, while Hungarians have been, not unexpectedly, considerably mixed with German and Slavic populations. So the mixing is there. The idea of a pure race is bogus.

However, language is something else, and one has to be careful inferring anything from language. That's my point, not questioning your main argument that Europeans and every other human group are mixed genetically. You are right there, and the DNA bears it out. I have just learned that languages are a very poor predictor of relationships, so you have to look at DNA.

408 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:24:20pm
409 average_guy  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:24:26pm

Savage_Nation:

I passed the story you shared yesterday along to my mom today. It made her smile.

I gave you props after I shared it with her. Thanks.

410 TalkinKamel  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:25:02pm

re: #394 Thanos

Hoo-ha! Thanos, you might be onto something! (Kilgore, take note!)

I had noticed the Luddite tendencies among them; the Nazis were heavily into anti-luddite, let's-get-back-to-nature, blood and soil stuff. It didn't keep them from being eugenicists.

411 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:25:02pm

re: #406 TalkinKamel


Maybe they're going to play the, "We want a pure Christian religion, with no non-European elements," or, "We want a more naturalistic, Christian religion." (The Nazis, remember, were very big on nature, and ancient pagan religions. Played right, you really could get ninnies like Dymphna go along with this, I think.)


I like that option. It's the only one that even remotely makes sense.

412 ggt  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:25:05pm

re: #398 Purple Prose

H@ll of a year!

413 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:25:45pm
414 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:25:48pm

re: #311 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Source.

H.U.F.F.I.N.G.T.O.N P.O.S.T.

Arianna Huffington huffs and puffs and blogs them all down

America’s top blogger tells why she has whipped up a storm with revelations about presidential hopeful John McCain

/better than ipecac

415 guftafs  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:26:09pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

It is curious. I was thinking maybe they'll blame it on Reason and science but they souldn't do something that ridiculous, would they? But why would they go out of their way to criticise Christianity? I wonder what their gimmick is going to be.

Could be in the hope to establish a common base of agreement to find new supporters for their point of view. Not a very controversial topic, is it?

416 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:26:17pm

re: #403 savage_nation

I remember when I did LTL, I never had a ounce of extra weight on me.

Know what you mean. I've got a friend who drives long haul for Frito Lay. I have yet to figure out how come he is fat, stocking bins and stores all day.

417 Koby77  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:26:41pm

I took a look at Fjordman's article by immediately clicking on the link, and prior to reading the part, "My answer can be summed up in those three legendary words, “Where’s the beef?”". The article indeed does attack the media for misrepresenting him, and also notes some Islamofascist statements printed by those media sources. But the author never really says what it is he believes, or directly refutes the claims of his own fascism. Again, "Where's the beef?"

Sorry, Fjordman. Your direct appeal to me doesn't change my mind.

418 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:27:22pm
419 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:27:49pm

re: #413 savage_nation

LOL! I thought you were gonna go all the way back with that post.

Well, if she's as old as she claimed, the big bang was her first night with Adam.

420 Tom Kratman  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:27:57pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

Search LGF for Vlaam Belang and you'll get a complete history.

First thing I did before posting. I see three references to "Nazi," and those are two accusations from political enemies, and one platform demand for an amnesty similar to what other Euro countries have declared. That's a thin case. I see one accusation from Pym Fortuyn that they were fascist. That doesn't make the case a lot better.

421 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:29:18pm

re: #418 savage_nation

Look at what he delivers!

True. I've got that problem too.

422 TalkinKamel  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:29:25pm

re: #411 Killgore Trout

Yes, I'm beginning to think it's the most likely option.

(Whatever the gimmick is, I'm pretty sure we're not going to like it.)

423 TalkinKamel  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:30:08pm

re: #420 Tom Kratman

If you don't see, after reading all the entries (if you have read them), it's because you don't want to see.

424 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:30:40pm

Is there anyone here besides me who has been called a "Nazi" and has subsequently punched said insult flinger in the nose? I have done it, even recently.

425 infidelia  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:30:47pm

re: #340 Tom Kratman

I don't know a great bloody deal about Vlaams Belang, frankly. Just out of curiosity, what in their platform are we identifying as "fascist?" Alternatively, are we seeing a large number of its members who are fascist, whatever the official platform may be? In the latter case, whose definition of fascism are we using, beyond the standard left wing, "fascism is all that of which I disapprove that ls to the right of Lenin?"

Tom, this is a bit OT, but have you run into resistance from bookstore chains over The Caliphate? I ask because I work for that bastion of free speech (where's the sarc button), B****rs (and I'm paranoid), and the book has been listed as in-transit-gee-we-don't-know-where-the-hell-it-is for about a month now. The also appear to have no plans to stock Willful Blindness or Defending the West, and The Legacy of Islamic Anti-Semitism may be a no-show as well.

426 stevieray  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:31:17pm

re: #407 Purple Prose

If I recall my history correctly, the ethnically "pure" nations of today's Europe are post-WWI creations. When the empires broke down after the First World War, many of the new states were partitioned ethnically, and the remaining mixed states were further divided after WWII.

427 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:31:20pm
428 Roger  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:31:34pm

re: #371 TalkinKamel

I really don't like the sound of that upcoming debate (debate? What's to debate?) about the origins of Christian anti-semetism. And I thought Fjordman, GoV and Pamela were all fearless anti-jihad fighters; so why would they go so far off-track as to have a group discussion about something so completely off topic from the WoT?

I really, really, don't like the sound of this. . .

Yes, I know. Been expecting it for the last week...

429 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:32:41pm

Tom Cruise's Hitler film shelved.

430 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:33:15pm

re: #427 savage_nation

oh, kinky!

Suprised she hasn't commented. She must be searching Kansas by now and zeroing in. If I hear whistling, I'm gonna run.

431 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:33:56pm
432 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:34:05pm

re: #420 Tom Kratman

First thing I did before posting. I see three references to "Nazi,"


I didn't day to search "Nazi". If you search LGF for "Vlaams Belang" you will get all the background information you need. Again the term to search on lgf is Vlaams Belang.

433 Tom Kratman  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:34:10pm

re: #405 Thanos

Karel Dillen. You can get his newly revised biography from VB's store. It's titled from a Wies Moens poem. (Who is Wies Moens? Translate the third link down here.)

you can see more here and here.


Yep, that's more evidence...some pretty good evidence as a matter of fact.

434 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:34:33pm

re: #429 rawmuse

Tom Cruise's Hitler film shelved.

Dang! They shoulda shelved Cruise instead, and thrown the film in the trash.

435 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:36:05pm

re: #431 savage_nation

Good on ya. If more people did that, these little flippant sh*ts would not fling that particular insult around so freely. My Dad fought Nazis, the real ones.

436 TalkinKamel  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:36:25pm

re: #422 TalkinKamel

As I recall, the Nazis didn't much like old-fashioned Christianity, and wanted a faith that was more representative of the German people, and celebrated blood and soil, blah, blah, the whole dreary schtick. They wanted to cleanse Christianity of its Jewish/Middle-Eastern elements.

I can't help but wonder if Fjordman/GoV, etc., aren't going to try pushing the same thing; what theologian C.S. Lewis would have called, "Christianity AND!" i.e., "Christianity and Social justice," "Christianity and the Aryan race," "Christianity and Marx", so on and so forth. They might be getting ready to push "Christianity AND European purity!" "Christianity AND the Left is being mean to white people."

(I don't think they'll do "Christianity AND America; they don't seem that interested in the US anymore. And, whatever the gimmick is, I don't think we're gonna like it!)

437 Sharmuta  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:36:31pm

fjordy-

I find it rather pathetic that you'd need to beg for posters for your friends at gov. And you do it using a blog that is incapable of retracting it's trash on not just Charles, but on Bruce Bawer, too. That's quite shameless on the part of "the desk". What's more- I wouldn't join any debate at gov, invited or otherwise for the simple fact that I have better things to do with my time than convince people who have no issue with promoting racists and genocidal fantasizers. They haven't figured it out now, they're not likely to by anything I have to say, nor by anything any of the decent folks here at LGF have to say either. In short- it would be a cold day in hell before I joined you at gov.

438 Opilio  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:36:52pm

re: #417 Koby77

It took you 7 months to push your way out of your shell?!? Charles needs to lighten up on the calcium supplements.

439 Charles  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:36:55pm

re: #433 Tom Kratman

Yep, that's more evidence...some pretty good evidence as a matter of fact.

Some more Vlaams Belang Nazi links:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

440 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:37:05pm
441 TalkinKamel  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:38:26pm

re: #428 Roger

You have? What did you hear? They've been talking about this delightful (?) debate for a week now?

442 JeremyR  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:38:50pm

re: #424 rawmuse

Is there anyone here besides me who has been called a "Nazi" and has subsequently punched said insult flinger in the nose? I have done it, even recently.

Never been called a nazi to my face. Had a few lesser insults earn guys a trip to the ER though.

443 mudhen  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:39:09pm

One point that may not have been made yet, is to answer Fjordman's frustration when Charles continues to post about GoV. The simple answer is that *not everyone who should know about GoV, VB, etc. are up to speed*. Many people are just beginning to pay attention to the European situation. Just because most of us on LGF were there when the blow up happened, there are more people who daily join or read LGF and need to understand what both sides are all about.

I rarely post, but was an avid reader of GoV in the days when their racism was more carefully hidden. They are articulate and persuasive. They appeal to the survivalist/protectionist that lives within us... the little voice that we listen to when threatened. We all feel threatened by the Muslim immigration issues, it is going to be the biggest threat of our lifetimes. So, GoV's posts and points of view were fitting into a certain worldview that many of us share.

However, it became apparent through Charles' diligent digging, that the hidden racism was there all along, was insidious and was going to be a much larger problem. I'm not going to post to it again, since I no longer have GoV on the favorites list, but upon reading one post that proposed, among other things, that countries in Europe make it illegal for Muslims to marry Muslims, and to build mosques, and proposed mass deportations of Muslims (whether legal or not, and whether they were culturally assimilated or not), I decided that I could not side with people who would take such tactics seriously. Turn the words inside out... substitute any race or religion... and it cannot be abided. We can't make laws AGAINST one religion or race, just to single them out for squelching... because the precedent would be set. This decade it would be Muslims. Next decade, perhaps, Hindus. Then Fundamentalists. Jews, of course... You just can't side with people like that. There is a better way, and we have to stay with our principles.

444 Sharmuta  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:39:15pm

Tom Kratman- use the tag storm and look up, vlaams belang, vlaams blok, fascist and neo-nazi. Hope that helps.

445 rawmuse  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:39:47pm

OK, kids, it has been a long weekend, and I am turning in.
As usual, the experience has been satisfactory, in the extreme.

446 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:41:17pm

re: #429 rawmuse

Tom Cruise's Hitler film shelved.

He's gonna' jump on somebody's couch.

447 Tom Kratman  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:41:56pm

re: #425 infidelia

Tom, this is a bit OT, but have you run into resistance from bookstore chains over The Caliphate? I ask because I work for that bastion of free speech (where's the sarc button), B****rs (and I'm paranoid), and the book has been listed as in-transit-gee-we-don't-know-where-the-h ell-it-is for about a month now. The also appear to have no plans to stock Willful Blindness or Defending the West, and The Legacy of Islamic Anti-Semitism may be a no-show as well.

Not that I've found. Remember, I'm bloody new. While my first book came out in Dec 03, and my second in Aug 05, I've only been writing full time for two years; since I retired from the Army. Thus, I don't have a track record to drive major purchases from the brick and mortar stores. Those appear, however, to have been going up for the last three books. I know that, for Carnifex specifically, relatively few were ordered, initially, then the thing literally sold out (There were NO copies in the world outside of a small box under my desk) and used copies were going for 140 bucks in Europe) and had to be reprinted and redistributed. Right now I've got a fan base (I'm guessing) of about 20k readers...give or take. That's not going to go up appreciably until the _cheap_ paperbacks for the last four (Yellow Eyes, A Desert Called Peace, Carnifex, Caliphate) come out. Those the bookstores will probably stock well, which should drive up the base.

On the other hand, you're perfectly welcome to nag the system. ;)

448 Racer X  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:42:02pm
449 TalkinKamel  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:42:06pm

re: #443 mudhen

I liked GoV way back when too; as I've said before, I liked the Baron's expose work on the Jamat al Furga group.

I disliked the increasingly strident, racist note, however, and I finally stopped reading it completely when Dymphna stated that it would be wrong to support Hirsi Ali, because she was a horrible, unchristian atheist.

450 Sharmuta  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:42:20pm

Killgore-

I was searching vlaams belang in the comments a while back and it seems you were one of the first people to point out they had fascist ties. Good job!

451 MandyManners  Sun, May 11, 2008 8:43:27pm

re: #449 TalkinKamel

I liked GoV way back when too; as I'