LGF

 RetweetHuffPo: Obama Doesn't Need the Jews Anyway

Wed, May 14, 2008 at 9:47:11 am PDT

Huffington Post “reporter” Sam Stein comes right out and says it: Does Obama Even Need The Jewish Vote?

Does the Jewish vote really matter all that much for the Illinois Democrat? The topic, perhaps surprisingly, carries no clear consensus among some academics and analysts.

There is relative consensus on three reasons why the Jewish vote matters. Despite lacking overall numbers, Jews participate in the political process in large percentages, representing some of the more high-profile activists. They also have, historically, been major fundraisers for both political parties. And they tend to reside — for one reason or another — in some of the country’s most significant “swing states.”

For Obama, two of those three may not be major political concerns. The senator’s ability to drum up grassroots support provides him with a robust activist base, somewhat but not entirely irrespective of opinion makers. And his fundraising apparatus, which relies on more than 1.5 million donors — many of them of the low-dollar variety — means he doesn’t have to lean on major financiers. As one prominent Jewish Democratic fundraiser told The Huffington Post, “Obama doesn’t need me and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.” Indeed, Obama’s success in bringing in campaign cash, longtime political observers say, has fundamentally altered the relationship between candidate and constituency group.

Wow.

And please note that the administrators at HuffPo have already closed the comments for this one, because they know exactly what will happen if they don’t: a deluge of vicious antisemitic hatred.

(Hat tip: reelcobra.)

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231 comments

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1 thedopefishlives  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:48:28am
Indeed, Obama’s success in bringing in campaign cash, longtime political observers say, has fundamentally altered the relationship between candidate and constituency group.

Okay, someone needs to lay off the Kool-aid.

2 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:48:28am

Why? O why? do so many Jews vote Dem?

/Puzzled

3 ggt  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:48:34am

ugh!

4 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:48:49am

Ironic, because the Jews don't need Obama either.

5 JohnnyReb  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:48:57am

Well at least he is honest about it. Right?

6 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:49:01am

Doesn't HuffPo have a script that automatically disables comments for any post containing the word "Jewish"?

7 maddogg  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:49:04am

Obama doesn't need the Jewish vote? Damn, this woman is the new standard for how stupid can you be?

8 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:49:37am

The ultimate question is, does anybody really need Obama?

9 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:49:38am

Oh, and I think the Republicans would be MORE than happy to have the Jewish vote, thanks.

10 Ben Hur  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:49:57am

300,000 million people in the US.

6 million Joos.

The "Jewish vote" isn't as important to politicians as their shekels are.

11 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:50:11am

re: #7 maddogg

Obama doesn't need the Jewish vote? Damn, this woman is the new standard for how stupid can you be?

And yet, when push comes to shove, how many of those liberal, secular Jews are going to be able to bring themselves to vote for McCain, breaking a lifetime of conditioning?

12 littleoldlady  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:50:25am

Bwahahahaha!

Does that mean we're off the hook? ;-)

/I'm not a racist. (YAY.) I'm just not needed...

13 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:50:31am
14 NoSubmission  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:50:41am

I say let the comments begin...

15 Ojoe  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:50:44am

robust robot activist base.

16 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:51:14am

Running out of space under that bus by now aren't you, Obama?

17 Thor-Zone  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:51:16am

It's only a matter of time before someone starts calling the Jooos racisits.

18 ggt  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:51:21am

Is it too early in the thread to go OT and say I'm off to take my nap?

Have a great day Lizards!

19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:51:31am

It should be obvious that the Jewish vote doesn't need Obama.

20 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:51:36am

{littleoldlady}
:)

21 thedopefishlives  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:51:46am

I'm still amused that they think he doesn't need major financiers. Isn't that how the entire Daley political machine is run?

22 MandyManners  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:51:49am

When will JustMyView pop up its muddled head here?

23 Ben Hur  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:51:56am

Free yourself from the shackles of the Jewish vote.

BBL

24 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:51:58am

re: #10 Ben Hur

300,000 million people in the US.

6 million Joos.

The "Jewish vote" isn't as important to politicians as their shekels are.

Apart from the dollars and organization, the reason the Jewish vote has been important historically, is that Jews tend to live in swing states.

What happens to Mr. Obama if he loses Florida, for example?

25 The Other Les  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:52:11am

re: #15 Ojoe

robust robot activist base.

"By your command!"

26 MandyManners  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:52:23am

re: #16 bosforus

Running out of space under that bus by now aren't you, Obama?

The Part of the Big Bus.

27 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:52:24am

One vertient of this, is pandering to Hamas et al.

28 Ben Hur  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:52:45am

re: #24 looking closely

Apart from the dollars and organization, the reason the Jewish vote has been important historically, is that Jews tend to live in swing states.

What happens to Mr. Obama if he loses Florida, for example?


G-dama is going to win all 57 states.

bbl!

29 seekeroftruth  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:53:15am

I hope this gets circulated via grassroots emails and reaches a lot of folks out there.

30 JammieWearingFool  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:53:23am

He doesn't need the Jewish money since it's flowing in from Gaza already.

Good luck with that strategery.

31 Thor-Zone  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:53:40am
Running out of space under that bus by now aren't you, Obama?

Nope, he just put bigger tires on it.

32 maddogg  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:54:38am

re: #11 JamesTKirk

And yet, when push comes to shove, how many of those liberal, secular Jews are going to be able to bring themselves to vote for McCain, breaking a lifetime of conditioning?

I have no idea, as I know too many lifelong Democrats who still think the Democratic party is the party it was when FDR fought WWII and Harry Truman dropped the bomb. They refuse to acknowledge that like Zell Miller, the party has left them behind, and no longer represents them, but actually looks down its elitist nose at them as rubes.

Makes me sick, and pisses me off.

33 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:54:49am

re: #10 Ben Hur

300,000 million people in the US.

6 million Joos.

The "Jewish vote" isn't as important to politicians as their shekels are.

Florida has 750,000 Jews, and I seem to recall an election in Florida where that number was far more than the margin of difference between the two candidates.

3-5% of Ohio are Jews, another swing state.

And so on...

34 NoSubmission  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:55:38am

The photo of Obama they posted the picture of arrogance.

35 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:55:39am
36 Sharmuta  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:55:49am
HuffPo: Obama Doesn't Need the Jews Anyway

Yeah- the "constant sore" comment kind of gave that away.

37 kynna  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:55:54am

I just saw the news about a rocket from Gaza hitting a shopping center in Israel. Will anyone on the left condemn this atrocity?

How can they look themselves in the mirror? How can they call others bigots and racists when they where that very thing on their own sleeves?

This is so disgusting. What a crummy start to the day.

Not LGF, of course. That's the only good part. If it weren't for this site I wouldn't hear about any of this info.

38 Blueroom127  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:56:18am

"lets throw the jews out and keep their money even if we don't need it. We don't need jews" seems to be the next logical step in that reasoning.

Progressive thought seems to run like this: We don't like Jews, We don't want Jews - coming soon - we won't tolerate any jews here.

NEVER FORGET

39 The Other Les  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:56:22am

re: #16 bosforus

Running out of space under that bus by now aren't you, Obama?

Not if the bus is this big:

40 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:56:25am

re: #35 savage_nation

Don't get wet!

41 Charles  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:56:38am

Notice that the author, Sam Stein, is a graduate of Columbia Journalism School.

42 littleoldlady  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:56:47am

re: #2 MigueldowninMexico

Why? O why? do so many Jews vote Dem?

/Puzzled

Remember my prediction of a few weeks ago?

We're getting closer.

43 kynna  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:57:12am

re: #37 kynna

I just saw the news about a rocket from Gaza hitting a shopping center in Israel. Will anyone on the left condemn this atrocity?

How can they look themselves in the mirror? How can they call others bigots and racists when they where that very thing on their own sleeves?

This is so disgusting. What a crummy start to the day.

Not LGF, of course. That's the only good part. If it weren't for this site I wouldn't hear about any of this info.

'wear' not 'where'

Oopsy! *blushing*

44 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:57:15am

re: #17 Thor-Zone

It's only a matter of time before someone starts calling the Jooos racisits.

That would be the UN's famous "Zionism¹ equals racism" proclamation.

¹The word "Zionism" is used by people who want to slander Jews without actually using the word "Jew", thus allowing them to deny that they are anti-Semites.

45 Roger  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:57:48am

Perhaps Barry should throw out the inconsequential insert-your-ethnicity-here vote too.

46 Thor-Zone  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:57:59am

re: #41 Charles

Notice that the author, Sam Stein, is a graduate of Columbia Journalism School.

No surprises here!

47 Ackomanyuki  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:58:14am

Does this mean the on eighth Jewish part of me that is not voting for Obama is exempt from being a racist now?

48 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:58:32am

re: #42 littleoldlady

Remember my prediction of a few weeks ago?

We're getting closer.

What was that inparticular LoL?

I can see that hardly more than 1/3 of Jews would vote Republican.

49 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:58:33am

re: #24 looking closely

Apart from the dollars and organization, the reason the Jewish vote has been important historically, is that Jews tend to live in swing states.

What happens to Mr. Obama if he loses Florida, for example?

I think you can count on FL going Republican this year. All McCain has to do is repeatedly bring up the way that the DNC rejected their primary, and that they were instrumental in selecting him as the Republican Candidate.

50 NR Pax  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:59:07am

I would think that a candidate would need all the votes they can get to earn a majority that puts them in office. But I guess that's my bitter-gun-and-religion-clinging viewpoint rearing its head again.

51 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:59:09am

re: #33 JamesTKirk

Florida has 750,000 Jews, and I seem to recall an election in Florida where that number was far more than the margin of difference between the two candidates.

3-5% of Ohio are Jews, another swing state.

And so on...

2.8% of the electorate in Pennsylvania are Jews, and like Florida, its a critical swing state.

52 Alouette  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:59:19am

Jews do not vote as a monolithic unit.

53 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:59:29am

re: #39 The Other Les

Not if the bus is this big:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Ha ha, what movie is that?

54 littleoldlady  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:59:32am

re: #48 MigueldowninMexico

What was Reagan's (historically high) percentage of the Jewish vote? 40%?

55 reelcobra  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:59:49am

I found this early this AM right as it came out, and tried to comment (I love snarking the morons at HuffPo. They have no irony detection ability, so I make fatally defective arguments in "support" of BHO as I call him and they usually agree.)

Here, I wrote, and write, that if this whole run by Obama is not a wake up call to American Jews that the Dem Party is nothing more than the party of racial and gender entitlement and grievence, Amrican Jews are, well, idiots.

Sad to say.

56 maddogg  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:00:33am

I'm waiting for Huffpo to post that Obama doesn't need the racist Southern vote either.

57 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:00:38am

re: #54 littleoldlady

What was Reagan's (historically high) percentage of the Jewish vote? 40%?

38% if I recall correctly.

58 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:00:57am

Final results of Jewish-American voting in 2008 will be:

70% Obama (unless Hillary eats him then she get the 70%)
30% McCain

59 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:01:29am

But, we are racist because we might vote for someone other than Obama? Does. Not. Compute.

60 lawhawk  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:01:32am

I've got a better one:

America doesn't need Obama.

61 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:01:45am

re: #50 NR Pax

I would think that a candidate would need all the votes they can get to earn a majority that puts them in office.

Only if they're going for the popular vote, which doesn't matter unless you're a disgruntled Al Gore fanatic. As long as you win enough big states by 50%+1 votes, you don't need a single vote in the remaining states.

62 Thor-Zone  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:01:49am

re: #58 experiencedtraveller

Final results of Jewish-American voting in 2008 will be:

70% Obama (unless Hillary eats him then she get the 70%)
30% McCain


Sad but true.

63 NoSubmission  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:02:01am
64 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:02:17am

re: #52 Alouette

Jews do not vote as a monolithic unit.

Near enough that the Dems generally take them for granted.

65 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:02:36am

re: #54 littleoldlady

What was Reagan's (historically high) percentage of the Jewish vote? 40%?

We got LOL and Miguel and Storage Manager her this morning! Wow a meeting of the night lizards!

66 The Other Les  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:02:37am

re: #53 bosforus

Ha ha, what movie is that?

The Big Bus.

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

67 experiencedtraveller  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:02:38am

re: #54 littleoldlady

What was Reagan's (historically high) percentage of the Jewish vote? 40%?

38%

68 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:02:39am

re: #49 CyanSnowHawk

Nothing is a given, but I think McCain has a good shot in FL, yes.

If he also takes PA, that's literally most of the contest right there.

Ohio isn't a particularly Jewish state, but it will be a critically important one.

69 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:03:30am

re: #54 littleoldlady

What was Reagan's (historically high) percentage of the Jewish vote? 40%?

Near there, but you have to remember, he was running against Carter!

70 littleoldlady  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:03:48am

re: #57 MigueldowninMexico

38% if I recall correctly.

My prediction (Mr. Senior Senor Moment ;-) was that McCain would get Reaganesque numbers if Obama was the nominee.

71 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:04:21am

A newspaper in Mexico City says today that Of course! Hillary won West Virginia, a State where most people are white.

Lots of people are trying to spin the whole thing as a racist issue.

Escuse me, but I'll insist that in Bolivia it is not a racial thing. Morales has already demanded an overhaul of society to make it a socialist country. Goes well beyond race.

72 Alouette  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:04:26am

re: #64 JamesTKirk

Near enough that the Dems generally take them for granted.

That's true now but the demographics are changing. The liberal, leftist secular Jews do not have many offspring, but the conservative, right-wing Orthodox Jews do.

73 chinesearithmetic  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:04:30am

The senator’s ability to drum up grassroots support provides him with a robust activist base

He should hope for better things in the Bluegrass State, which made West Virginia the Nograss State I guess

74 ishabibble  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:04:44am

re: #21 thedopefishlives

I'm still amused that they think he doesn't need major financiers. Isn't that how the entire Daley political machine is run?


Barry is awash with money from the Internet. Given the story here yesterday about the Pali phone banks for Barry, why doesn't the intrepid NYT or WaPo find out just exactly how many of those millions are coming from overseas, specifically the ME?

Team You'reallracists has started backing away from the 84 million dollar campaign deal that they had earlier agreed to, mainly because they are getting so much more from the net. Who is donating that money and where is it coming from?

75 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:04:45am

re: #65 coquimbojoe

We got LOL and Miguel and Storage Manager her this morning! Wow a meeting of the night lizards!

That's right! LOL
Reverie...

76 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:05:02am

re: #66 The Other Les

The Big Bus.

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

Not exactly the kind of movie where a lot of thought has to be put into the title. I'd probably like it.

77 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:05:03am

re: #68 looking closely

Nothing is a given, but I think McCain has a good shot in FL, yes.

If he also takes PA, that's literally most of the contest right there.

Ohio isn't a particularly Jewish state, but it will be a critically important one.

I am assuming that McCain doesn't really put his foot into it before Nov. Never a safe bet in politics, I know.

78 offendi  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:05:13am

The in-the-tank-for-Obama media are getting their talking points.

The Obama brain trust have no clue as to how to reverse Obama's decline in the "white" vote, especially as more racially divisive information may come out.

They also understand that Obama's associations and abysmal handling of his own Israel issue presents a very clear wedge with American Jewish voters, and more importantly American Jewish contributors. So why not attempt to discount their need for Jewish support? Otherwise the repeated concern over his being "soft" on Israel won't go away.

To say Obama will get the youth vote is amusing, since the democrats tried that one with Kerry, raising the need to renew the draft due to Iraq, etc.. Went nowhere.

African-Americans may come out in huge numbers for Obama, but it can't replace or overcome the white voters he has already alienated.

79 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:05:34am

re: #70 littleoldlady

My prediction (Mr. Senior Senor Moment ;-) was that McCain would get Reaganesque numbers if Obama was the nominee.

Yes, I remember that!
Well it's a couple of points behind!
You're a sage littleoldlady.
This is not the first time ;)

80 Thor-Zone  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:05:40am

re: #70 littleoldlady

My prediction (Mr. Senior Senor Moment ;-) was that McCain would get Reaganesque numbers if Obama was the nominee.

I can see that, but don't forget the media is in the tank for Obama. That means the millions of mind numbed liberals and democrats may still vote Obama.

81 littleoldlady  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:06:11am

re: #65 coquimbojoe

JOE! :-)

82 billhedrick  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:06:16am

please B_O, eschew the Jews and White males. build a coalition without them

83 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:06:37am
84 jemima  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:07:05am

"Screw the Jews. They never were interested in the Civil Rights Movement"

/channeling Michelle

85 Annar  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:07:13am

If Honorary Imam Obama is in office come January, Israel will really be alone. In an effort to encourage peace in our times our fearless leader will offer immigration visas to the Jews of Israel and to the Christians along with some Sunnis in Lebanon. The resulting Pax aeterna will leave Hamas in charge of the new Palestine, Lebanon as either an independent Shi'a Islamic state or a province of Syria. The front will then move to Turkey where the secular government will be overthrown and then on to the construction of Eurabia.

But then again, Israel may fight if Netanyahu gets elected before the Obama peace offensive begins.

86 littleoldlady  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:07:24am

re: #69 looking closely

Near there, but you have to remember, he was running against Carter!

History repeats itself. ;-)

87 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:07:54am

re: #83 ploome hineni

tikkun olam

a sincere responsibility and need to help others, to repair the world

But thats a false optic, ploomie.
Liberals are not the only ones who "care".
And liberals are usually anti-Israel.
You know the roster.

88 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:08:29am

re: #72 Alouette

That's true now but the demographics are changing. The liberal, leftist secular Jews do not have many offspring, but the conservative, right-wing Orthodox Jews do.

Since when are Orthodox Jews politically conservative?

That's news to me. AFAIK, they're 90%+ Democrats.

Also Orthodox Jews make up only about 10% of American Jewry (which are only about 2% of the American electorate), meaning their impact is particularly muted.

89 seekeroftruth  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:08:33am

re: #74 ishabibble

Barry is awash with money from the Internet. Given the story here yesterday about the Pali phone banks for Barry, why doesn't the intrepid NYT or WaPo find out just exactly how many of those millions are coming from overseas, specifically the ME?

Team You'reallracists has started backing away from the 84 million dollar campaign deal that they had earlier agreed to, mainly because they are getting so much more from the net. Who is donating that money and where is it coming from?

I want to know that too...

90 Alouette  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:08:40am

re: #83 ploome hineni

tikkun olam

a sincere misguided responsibility and need to help others, to repair the world

91 roguejew  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:08:44am

I guess it's a good thing I didn't plan on voting for the racist schmuck anyway!

92 Russkilitlover  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:08:59am

re: #21 thedopefishlives

I'm still amused that they think he doesn't need major financiers. Isn't that how the entire Daley political machine is run?

I always thought the Chi-Town machine was laundered money distributed through many tiny resources to obfuscate.

93 Sharmuta  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:09:17am

re: #82 billhedrick

please B_O, eschew the Jews and White males. build a coalition without them

Better add the women too- just to make sure it's not sexist.

94 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:09:28am

Don't have time to read all the comments, but
does HuffPo think the US needs Jews at all?
Why do I think they wish we'd leave. Only they wouldn't give us anyplace to go.

95 NoSubmission  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:09:47am

Imagine the damage he could do if he wins in November...

96 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:10:07am

re: #83 ploome hineni

tikkun olam

a sincere responsibility and need to help others, to repair the world

Good reason to vote Republican, IMO.

This is my explanation why Jews usually vote Republican.

97 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:10:26am

re: #60 lawhawk

I've got a better one:

America doesn't need Obama.

America didn't land on Obama, Obama landed on us.

98 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:10:33am

re: #95 NoSubmission

Imagine the damage he could do if he wins in November...

The temperature went down like 30 degress when I read that.

Suddenly, I'm trembling...

99 Alouette  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:11:03am

re: #88 looking closely


Also Orthodox Jews make up only about 10% of American Jewry (which are only about 2% of the American electorate), meaning their impact is particularly muted.

40 years ago Orthodox Jews made up only 5% of American Jewry. They are raising families of 8-10 kids while the liberal denominations are assimilating, contracepting, intermarrying, aborting and gaying themselves into extinction.

100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:12:17am

re: #95 NoSubmission

Imagine the damage he could do if he wins in November...

Kragaristan is looking better and better.

101 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:13:29am

re: #86 littleoldlady

History repeats itself. ;-)

Not yet.

Don't forget that 71% of the Jewish vote went to Carter in 1976.

I'd expect 40% of Jews to vote against Obama AFTER his first term (ie after most of the damage is done), but not before.

102 Thor-Zone  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:13:37am

re: #95 NoSubmission

Imagine the damage he could do if he wins in November...

Truly frightening.

103 onslow  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:15:22am

re: #41 Charles

Pat Buchanan is another distinguished alumni of Columbia University's Graduate School of Journalism.

104 roguejew  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:15:24am

I imagine that the more he talks about Israel being a festering sore, the more Jews may turn against him in November...This putz is functionally Unable to keep his foot out of his mouth.

105 thedopefishlives  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:15:39am

re: #92 Russkilitlover

Yes, exactly. Technically, behind the scenes it's big financiers. It just looks like "grassroots support" to keep it under the radar.

106 maddogg  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:15:51am

So, the actual campaign has not even started against McCain, and the Obama shills are already playing the race card. Does that not hint at desperation?

107 NoSubmission  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:16:03am

re: #102 Thor-Zone

Truly frightening.


Indeed. Really think hard about it.
Our enemies rejoicing. Chaos and confusion. Daily gaffes and hasty scrambles to recover stupidity uttered at the Presidential podium. It just goes on and on..

108 republic  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:16:18am

Barack Hussein Obama: "I've been to 57 states, with a couple more to go"

Sheesh!

109 wolfie  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:16:33am

re: #71 MigueldowninMexico

A newspaper in Mexico City says today that Of course! Hillary won West Virginia, a State where most people are white.

Lots of people are trying to spin the whole thing as a racist issue.

Escuse me, but I'll insist that in Bolivia it is not a racial thing. Morales has already demanded an overhaul of society to make it a socialist country. Goes well beyond race.

Agreed. My Bolivian cousin is married to a full-blooded Aymara, and they both can't stand Morales. They have a store in La Paz and their views are typical of shopkeepers there, regardless of race. Although they are andenos, mountain people, they are rooting for Santa Cruz and other lowland states against Morales.
Racism is different there from what it is in the US. It has a lot to do with class. Someone here said that to call someone a "cholo" is like using the N word. It is NOT. I can't think of an English equivalent, but "redneck" comes close.
(My mother is a boliviana...now naturalized American...I was born and raised there.)

110 NoSubmission  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:17:19am

Okay. Now imagine him re-elected!

111 CIA Reject  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:17:48am

re: #107 NoSubmission

Indeed. Really think hard about it.
Our enemies rejoicing. Chaos and confusion. Daily gaffes and hasty scrambles to recover stupidity uttered at the Presidential podium. It just goes on and on..

It will be a national version of the David Dinkins administration- for all of you our there who were lucky enough to have avoided having to live first hand through that...

112 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:17:55am
113 republic  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:18:13am

re: #110 NoSubmission

Okay. Now imagine him re-elected!


They'd have most Americans firearms by then, they'd do anything they wanted to do.

114 reelcobra  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:18:23am

Wow - I'm in with the first comment on this disgraceful essay.

Let's see what the HuffPO loons have to say.

115 Iron Fist[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:18:57am
116 firebreather  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:19:06am

Note to Huff Po/Daily Kos/ George Soros/ NY Times types:

If you didn't vote for Ken Blackwell, Lynn Swann or Michael Steele during the 2006 mid-terms, you're a racist.

If you didn't support Clarence Thomas' nomination for the Supreme Court in 1991, you're a racist.

If you opposed the nomination of Condi Rice as National Security Adviser or Secretary of State, you're a racist.

If you opposed Rod Paige as Secretary of Education, or Colin Powell as Secretary of State, or JC Watts or Alan Keyes in congress, you're a racist.

117 Sabnen  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:19:08am

re: #9 looking closely

Oh, and I think the Republicans would be MORE than happy to have the Jewish vote, thanks.

I am hoping that a realignment of the Jewish Vote is in the near future. Okay, I'll take a little shift and maybe Republicans can build on that.

118 maddogg  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:19:19am

re: #113 republic

They'd have most Americans firearms by then, they'd do anything they wanted to do.

Uh, no they won't.

119 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:19:23am

re: #99 Alouette

40 years ago Orthodox Jews made up only 5% of American Jewry. They are raising families of 8-10 kids while the liberal denominations are assimilating, contracepting, intermarrying, aborting and gaying themselves into extinction.

Of course their numbers are growing, both in absolute terms, and in their proportion of American Jewry.

But the fact is, they are still a small minority of American Jews and overwhelmingly Democrat-leaning. I see no evidence that this trend is changing the political demographic of American Jewry, and in fact, arguably its further entrenching the current state.

Also, as a secondary matter, the Orthodox Jews tend to live in overwhelmingly blue Northeast States (eg NY, NJ, MD), meaning their impact in a Presidential race is blunted, even within the Jewish community.

120 republic  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:20:13am

re: #118 maddogg

Uh, no they won't.

I didn't say mine.

121 seekeroftruth  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:20:13am

re: #116 firebreather

Excellent

122 wolfie  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:20:16am

re: #83 ploome hineni

tikkun olam

a sincere responsibility and need to help others, to repair the world

Secular Jews are far more left-wing than religious Jews.
Perhaps it's not fulfilling responsibilities of Judaism, but replacing Judaism with a secular religion of the state. In a word, idolatry.
(You may observe similarities w/ post-Christians, particularly post-Puritans.)

123 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:20:56am

re: #109 wolfie

Agreed. My Bolivian cousin is married to a full-blooded Aymara, and they both can't stand Morales. They have a store in La Paz and their views are typical of shopkeepers there, regardless of race. Although they are andenos, mountain people, they are rooting for Santa Cruz and other lowland states against Morales.
Racism is different there from what it is in the US. It has a lot to do with class. Someone here said that to call someone a "cholo" is like using the N word. It is NOT. I can't think of an English equivalent, but "redneck" comes close.
(My mother is a boliviana...now naturalized American...I was born and raised there.)

How interesting wolfie! Thanks :)

124 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:21:41am

re: #111 CIA Reject

It will be a national version of the David Dinkins administration- for all of you our there who were lucky enough to have avoided having to live first hand through that...

Oh God... You're absolutely right... That was a freakin' nightmare...

125 maddogg  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:21:43am

Obama really needs to start touting his views on gun control, that really worked well for Goricle.

126 Golem Akbar  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:21:54am

Obama doesn't need the Jews' support, and of course, the Jews don't get any support from Obama. Seems to work out just fine.

It's about time Jews realized that the democrats no longer offer them anything. The next obvious step is for Jews to become Republicans. Welcome, bros. And sisters. [and all the mishbucha]

127 littleoldlady  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:22:09am

re: #101 looking closely

Not yet.

Don't forget that 71% of the Jewish vote went to Carter in 1976.

I'd expect 40% of Jews to vote against Obama AFTER his first term (ie after most of the damage is done), but not before.

1976 was before the internet. We all have a job to do, and the web provides us with helpful proof. Pick 10 Jews. Send them the info we are learning here at LGF and spinoff links.

/trust geometric progression!
//I'll even lend you my bloodpressure meds. ;-)

128 MandyManners  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:22:23am

re: #110 NoSubmission

Okay. Now imagine him re-elected!

You're scaring the shit outta' me!

129 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:22:28am

re: #98 MigueldowninMexico

The temperature went down like 30 degress when I read that.

Suddenly, I'm trembling...

Obama is the solution to Global Warming!

130 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:22:38am

re: #115 Iron Fist

Ohio is going to be real tight... It's going to come down to Ohio...

131 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:22:40am

re: #104 roguejew

I imagine that the more he talks about Israel being a festering sore, the more Jews may turn against him in November...This putz is functionally Unable to keep his foot out of his mouth.

I sent that article to a Chabad rabbi - and he didn't think it was so bad. I tried to convince him, but didn't get very far.

On the other hand, another Chabad rabbi already thought Obama was dangerous, so he didn't need convincing.

I thought back to about a year ago when Obama said that "Nobody suffers like the Palestinians" and the press barely mentioned it.
Once I read that, I knew Obama was an anti-Semite.

132 offendi  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:22:48am

General elections are different than party primaries.

Hillary is not staying in it for no reason. The Clintons are sharp enough to know Barry is unelectable. They will have done their duty to the party for sticking around until the fiasco. Then they will use it in 2012 to justify Hillary's nomination.

People are missing something else too. The Clintons have sought hegemony over the democratic party. What will happen to the Clinton hangers-on and hatchet men if Obama takes over the party? They don't want to give up their place at the trough.

A good number of democrats it seems to me have a vested interest in Obama failing to win the Presidency.

133 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:22:49am

re: #112 ploome hineni

no
when a Jews abandons the last practice associated with Judiasm, what remains is a secular humanism

are you aware that almost every single city has a 'Jewish' hospital? think about that...2% of the population? ..how do they do it?

what does this have to do with ISrael?

Ok you didn't get my meaning.

Next time ;)

134 firebreather  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:22:56am

re: #121 seekeroftruth


Thanks! But no point in holding our breath waiting for an epiphany or even a moment of cognitive dissonance on the Left.

135 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:23:14am
136 redmonkey  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:23:35am

I don't know if Jewish immigrants from USSR and Eastern Europe included in statistic, by this group of Jews voted 70% for republicans.
Also, big Jew population in NY and NJ could give those states to McCain

137 Iron Fist[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:23:52am
138 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:25:09am

re: #136 redmonkey

I don't know if Jewish immigrants from USSR and Eastern Europe included in statistic, by this group of Jews voted 70% for republicans.
Also, big Jew population in NY and NJ could give those states to McCain

Not a chance...

139 Annar  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:25:32am

Even if, by some miracle, Obambi does not win, the Dems have a good chance of running the table in the Senate races and getting a 140+ seat majority in the House. With the remaining Rinos any McCain veto (if he bothered doing so) could be easily overridden.

Game over until 2010 at the earliest and even then it may be too late to right the flailing ship of state.

140 LEGION  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:26:01am

re: #117 Sabnen

I am hoping that a realignment of the Jewish Vote is in the near future. Okay, I'll take a little shift and maybe Republicans can build on that.

Unless they squander it- timid and spineless on the right- we need a Reagan clone back!

141 republic  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:26:12am

re: #125 maddogg

Obama really needs to start touting his views on gun control, that really worked well for Goricle.

Obama talks "common sense gun control", which translates to nobody but police or military keeping and bearing firearms.

His voting record proves that.

In IL he voted against allowing homeowners to use a firearm to defend oneself and family, in their own homes.

IL currently has a number of bills being hashed out, that will make virtually all firearms illegal, based on the loose wording of the language.

IL will see hundreds of thousands of people(solid taxpayers) as well as probably 30 major firearms manufacturers(workforce as well as solid taxpayers), move out of the state.

142 CIA Reject  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:26:22am

re: #124 tfc3rid

Oh God... You're absolutely right... That was a freakin' nightmare...

Yes, the only good to come of it was that things got so bad that people got completely fed up and voted him out and put a real reformer in- but, like an alcoholic, the city had to hit bottom first.

I'm hoping we can avoid this-

Did I just say "hope"? ACK!

143 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:26:37am

re: #127 littleoldlady

Pick 10 Jews. Send them the info we are learning here at LGF and spinoff links.

I send to non-Jews too. :)
I only sporadically send the real good juicy stuff. ..don't want to put on overload so early.

144 joelr  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:27:07am

I think it's very, very important to be clear and fair in criticizing Barack Obama's incredible stupidity on ME issues -- and while misrepresenting the "festering sore" comment as him claiming that it's Israel that's the "festering sore" is an easy cheap shot, it's wrong.

What's deeply and profoundly stupid is Obama signing onto the common stupidity that the failure of Pallies to build a decent society for themselves has to be the US's problem.

It only has to be if we agree that it has to, and we don't have to continue to play that game. The Pallie death cult is doomed; more payoffs and accomodations to them are not only useless, but counterproductive.

145 MigueldowninMexico  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:27:13am

re: #129 CyanSnowHawk

Obama is the solution to Global Warming!

ROFL!
Excellent conclusion!

146 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:27:32am

re: #141 republic

Obama talks "common sense gun control", which translates to nobody but police or military keeping and bearing firearms.

His voting record proves that.

In IL he voted against allowing homeowners to use a firearm to defend oneself and family, in their own homes.

IL currently has a number of bills being hashed out, that will make virtually all firearms illegal, based on the loose wording of the language.

IL will see hundreds of thousands of people(solid taxpayers) as well as probably 30 major firearms manufacturers(workforce as well as solid taxpayers), move out of the state.

Does he also want to take the guns away from the NOI goons?

147 firebreather  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:27:35am

re: #136 redmonkey

I don't know if Jewish immigrants from USSR and Eastern Europe included in statistic, by this group of Jews voted 70% for republicans.
Also, big Jew population in NY and NJ could give those states to McCain


Only Orthodox Jews tend to vote Republican.

The vast majority of US Jews are secular, and vote overwhelmingly Democrat, along the order of 90%. In fact, they're as reliable a voting bloc for Dems as African-Americans.

Of course, merely pointing out these facts opens one to the inevitable charge of anti-Semitism.

148 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:27:42am
149 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:27:51am

re: #139 Annar

Even if, by some miracle, Obambi does not win, the Dems have a good chance of running the table in the Senate races and getting a 140+ seat majority in the House. With the remaining Rinos any McCain veto (if he bothered doing so) could be easily overridden.

Game over until 2010 at the earliest and even then it may be too late to right the flailing ship of state.

I see the Dems with 235 House Seats and about 55 Senate seats as of now...

Making it imperative to win the White House...

150 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:28:26am

re: #104 roguejew

I imagine that the more he talks about Israel being a festering sore, the more Jews may turn against him in November...This putz is functionally Unable to keep his foot out of his mouth.


He's not going to be talking about that any more.

Also, the closer the election gets, the greater the proportion of his comments that will be scripted and rehearsed.

(Which is why an extended primary process is good for the country. . .it allows opportunities to see the candidates in unguarded form).

Obama has already started to reverse the most severe of his original leftist positions, and more "clarifications" will be forthcoming.

EG: He *WAS* going to pull all of the troops out of Iraq. . .but NOT, of course, if there is still a terrorist presence there!

He *WAS* for re-negotiating NAFTA. . .
He *WAS* for unconditioned one-on-one talks with Iran.

151 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:28:35am

re: #142 CIA Reject

Did I just say "hope"? ACK!

I saw a car a couple of days ago with a few Obama bumper stickers.
One was "Got Hope?"
My answer is
Yes, I hope Obama is not elected.

152 republic  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:29:05am

re: #146 Kosh's Shadow

Does he also want to take the guns away from the NOI goons?


Only if it would'nt interfere with his(leftDem) power.

153 littleoldlady  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:29:19am

re: #143 unrealizedviewpoint

Naturally, non-Jews, too. :-)

/we were speaking of the Jewish vote, specifically.

I've also had to hold myself back from inundating my "targets" with everything at once.

154 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:29:42am

re: #136 redmonkey

I don't know if Jewish immigrants from USSR and Eastern Europe included in statistic, by this group of Jews voted 70% for republicans.
Also, big Jew population in NY and NJ could give those states to McCain

Eastern bloc immigrants tend to be pro-business (for obvious reasons).

But there aren't anywhere near enough of them to swing overwhelmingly blue states like NY to the Republicans.

No way are NJ or NY going to McCain.

155 maddogg  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:30:58am

re: #141 republic


Thats what I'm talking about, gun control is political poison, and I expect McCain to give him a terminal dose of it, if he's smart (jury still out).

156 NoSubmission  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:34:03am

re: #111 CIA Reject

It will be a national version of the David Dinkins administration- for all of you our there who were lucky enough to have avoided having to live first hand through that...


I lived through the Dinkins adminstration first hand. So I know!

157 1SG(ret)  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:34:58am

re: #155 maddogg

Thats what I'm talking about, gun control is political poison, and I expect McCain to give him a terminal dose of it, if he's smart (jury still out).

He's more interested in running a respectful race than winning IMHO. The jury may still be out, but I think the decision has been made, and it's not looking good for our side.
Top

158 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:35:10am

re: #156 NoSubmission

I lived through the Dinkins adminstration first hand. So I know!

You mean 'survived' it...

159 Liechtentrager  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:35:52am

A classic antisemite would never rationalize away Jewish support the way Stein does. After all, it's not about the % of the popular vote, it's all about Jewish ownership/control of finance and media, no?

160 Biff  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:35:59am

Obama is tanking so badly, the Democratic Convention could turn into Weekend at Bernie's if he gets nominated, with Obama as the stiff guest of honor.

161 realwest  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:36:06am

Shoot, late to the party again!
Well, in any event, I think that the opinion would change if all contributors of any amount - including those of under $200 - had to be identifiable as American Citizens, entitled to vote in our elections.
I noted yesterday, following a comment made by Juante, that apparently if you go to Obama's website, you can still contribute up to $200 if you are not currently residing in the US and you need only check a box indicating that you are an American Citizen. Then, again I believe Juante, discovered thousands of contributions from such places as...Iran. And other ME countries with which we are not exactly on the best of terms.
I would wager a significant sum of money that there are no Americans in Iran, since we do not have diplomatic relations with Iran, do not allow American "tourists" or "businessmen" to travel to Iran and, iirc, have a ban in place against Iranian goods being legally exported to the US from Iran.
I am, of course, using Iran solely as an illustration.
I reported these findings of Juante and others and my and others reactions to them to Charles as I thought they would make an "interesting" thread and especially because not a word about this scam has been published in the MSM.
I still think it's threadworthy, but even if not, it could go a long way to understand "Obama’s success in bringing in campaign cash, longtime political observers say, has fundamentally altered the relationship between candidate and constituency group."

162 LEGION  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:36:32am

re: #126 Golem Akbar

Obama doesn't need the Jews' support, and of course, the Jews don't get any support from Obama. Seems to work out just fine.

It's about time Jews realized that the democrats no longer offer them anything. The next obvious step is for Jews to become Republicans. Welcome, bros. And sisters. [and all the mishbucha]

Actually, same for the blacks- the demorats use and abuse them, and then ignore till the next election! When oh when will they get it? Too many folks are hypnotized and done in by bread and circus's. Look at those poor fools in the weirdo polygamous sects in Texas. Grape Kool-aide for all. There is a deep empty yearning in too many of us that will make some follow a pied piper over a cliff like lemmings. Our society, nay world, is in peril.

163 Biff  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:37:53am

Do the Obama Democrats remember that there's still an Electoral College?

164 Annar  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:38:15am

re: #151 Kosh's Shadow

I saw a car a couple of days ago with a few Obama bumper stickers.
One was "Got Hope?"
My answer is
Yes, I hope Obama is not elected.

Great idea. Someone should make a run of bumper stickers saying simply:
HOPE HE IS NOT ELECTED

No name, party or anything else needed.

165 yma o hyd  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:39:20am

re: #161 realwest

Wise words - its always about the money trail, and I am equally astonished that nobody except Lizards seem to take any interest in this strange campaign money ...

166 realwest  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:42:04am

re: #165 yma o hyd Thanks for the compliment, but I think even very few lizards know about this international money to Obama scam. And the reason no one else seems to know about it is because a) they are too dumb to read LGF and b) although that money contribution rip off has been in place, iirc, since February 12th, no one in the MSM has reported it, because they WANT Obama to be POTUS.

167 offendi  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:44:12am

re: #156 NoSubmission

Well, Dave Dinkins was more into tennis. No time for governing.

I seem to recall he also had to pay 4 years worth of unfilled federal taxes at or before he became the democratic candidate. Probably working on perfecting his serve at the time.

168 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:45:04am

re: #167 offendi

Well, Dave Dinkins was more into tennis. No time for governing.

I seem to recall he also had to pay 4 years worth of unfilled federal taxes at or before he became the democratic candidate. Probably working on perfecting his serve at the time.

It went to build Arthur Ashe Stadium in Flusing Meadows... A beautiful facility, but comepletely unnecessary...

169 rcris5  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:45:47am

When O'bomber suffers our Nation's greatest, most decisive electoral defeat, it will be blamed on the Jooos.

I want my Zio-check. Can you advance that to me Charels?

170 nikis-knight  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:47:17am
Huffington Post “reporter” Sam Stein comes right out and says it: Does Obama Even Need The Jewish Vote?

What's the saying? It only matters who counts the votes?
/Get ready for the lawyers...

171 yma o hyd  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:50:15am

And another thing ...
What does it really mean, 'Obama doesn't need the Jewish votes'?
It also means that, once POTUS, he doesn't need to give a flying f*ck about Israel, because he doesn't need the Jewish votes to get re-elected ... and it means that all his weasel-words about Israel are just so much hogwash.

172 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:51:25am

re: #88 looking closely

Orthodox Jews are politically conservative. They vote "Democratic" because they're mostly in Democratic states where there are few other options.

In NYC local elections you can vote for the Democratic candidate or you can vote for the local candidate. Nationally it doesn't matter who you vote for since the State will still go Dem in the College.

173 Robert Schwartz  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:52:19am

I wish I could remember where I read it, but I did read an essay by Michael Barone, who said that the Dems cannot carry Florida without a big vote in southeast Florida (Dade, Broward, and Palm Bach counties). And there area couple of million Jews in those Counties, who have voted Dem in past elections.

174 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:52:24am

re: #147 firebreather

Only Orthodox Jews tend to vote Republican.

The vast majority of US Jews are secular, and vote overwhelmingly Democrat, along the order of 90%. In fact, they're as reliable a voting bloc for Dems as African-Americans.

Of course, merely pointing out these facts opens one to the inevitable charge of anti-Semitism.

The Russian Jewish vote in NYC went something like 90 percent for Bush last election. A fact that was widely underreported.

The 90 percent figure is also off.

175 Squirrelguy  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:53:59am

re: #94 Kosh's Shadow

Don't have time to read all the comments, but
does HuffPo think the US needs Jews at all?
Why do I think they wish we'd leave. Only they wouldn't give us anyplace to go.

Texas is open. Glad to have ya'. Fuck HuffPiss.

176 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:55:03am

I recall when Sam Stein shared an op ed page with such freakshows as Von Bulow (yes, that Von Bulow), Taki and Scott Connell.

177 Genosaurer  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:55:29am

re: #13 savage_nation

Well, this is one gentile that has had ENOUGH of Barry the closet Nazi.

Do you really think he's a Nazi? Because while I don't like Obama either, and can't see myself voting for him under any circumstances come November, I don't think that epithet is particularly accurate or necessary.

I think we'd be better off letting the lefties be the ones who jump straight to proving Godwin's Law true. As others have pointed out on here before, if you apply a word to everything you don't like, you strip it of any real meaning it once had.

178 Robert Schwartz  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:56:19am
how many of those liberal, secular Jews are going to be able to bring themselves to vote for McCain, breaking a lifetime of conditioning?

If my 85 year old mother, who put a picture of Adlai Stevenson on her car in the 1956 election, and was a state campaign finance chairwoman for Jimmy Carter, is a test case, the answer is quite a few.

179 LEGION  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:56:21am

re: #135 buzzsawmonkey

Jews: don't get in the cattle cars, get under the bus!

Move over, Grandma--you've got company!

Another one rides the bus!

180 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:57:28am

re: #169 rcris5

When O'bomber suffers our Nation's greatest, most decisive electoral defeat, it will be blamed on the Jooos.

I want my Zio-check. Can you advance that to me Charels?


I think predictions of a rout by McCain are way premature.

Obama has nearly the "perfect storm" going for him:

-Literally no electable senior Democrats running against him.
-An outgoing Republican president with record low approval ratings.
-An ongoing unpopular war.
-Decades-high gasoline prices.
-The highest unpopularity rating of the Republicans (in general) in years.
-Slowing economy with fear of economic recession.
-The best campaign money-making machine in American political history.
-As biased favorable press coverage as we're likely to see.

None of these things mean Obama can't be beaten, but he has a lot of significant factors going for him that shouldn't be underestimated.

181 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:57:41am

1980
Reagan (R) 39
Carter (D) 45

The Jewish Vote

Considering that Obama is channeling Carter, if McCain channels some Reagan, the figures might well split that way again.

182 offendi  Wed, May 14, 2008 10:59:16am

re: #168 tfc3rid


Yes, Dave had his priorities straight. That's how we got Rudy. Glad we did for 9-11.

183 offendi  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:00:47am

Barry the Messiah is vote-dead in Florida. John the Maverick will have Lieberman campaigning for him around the clock there.

184 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:02:30am
Jewish voting patterns after World War II reflected sustained engagement with the Democratic Party. In summarizing voting studies of the past forty years, 50 percent of American Jews identify with the Democratic Party. Another 30-35 percent are Independents, while some 13-17 percent define themselves as Republicans.

Where once the Democratic Party could count on a 90 percent Jewish turnout for its candidates, these numbers are now generally 60-75 percent, depending upon particular elections and specific candidates.

but the real issue with the Jewish vote for the Democratic party is that it's considered a safety vote that the party expects to count on. Eroding safety votes, which I think we're going to see with Catholics, Jews and maybe Latinos, is going to get scary for Obama and the Dems.

185 rcris5  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:03:10am

From the Jewish perspective, it would seen that riding in first class with the Republicans would be little more comfortable than under the bus with the likes of Rev. Wright.

186 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:03:19am

re: #180 looking closely

I cannot envision any rout my McCain... If he wins I think he wins with about 290 EV's...

If Obama wins, he'll have about 280.

187 Robert Schwartz  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:03:44am
Barry is awash with money from the Internet.

So that is why he was giving a speech at a fundraiser on San
Francisco's Billionaires Row.

Don't believe everything the MSM says.

188 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:03:46am

re: #182 offendi

Yes, Dave had his priorities straight. That's how we got Rudy. Glad we did for 9-11.

Can you imagine if Ruth Messenger was Mayor on 9/11?

189 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:05:48am

re: #183 offendi

it will be a perfect storm of an uphill battle, when you consider how unpopular Obama is with seniors, working class and increasingly Jewish voters.

and I wonder what the Cuba factor will do for Obama in Florida?

[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

Yeah I don't think Barry's getting Miami.

190 realwest  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:06:16am

re: #161 realwest

Shoot, late to the party again!
Well, in any event, I think that the opinion would change if all contributors of any amount - including those of under $200 - had to be identifiable as American Citizens, entitled to vote in our elections.
I noted yesterday, following a comment made by Juante, that apparently if you go to Obama's website, you can still contribute up to $200 if you are not currently residing in the US and you need only check a box indicating that you are an American Citizen. Then, again I believe Juante, discovered thousands of contributions from such places as...Iran. And other ME countries with which we are not exactly on the best of terms.
I would wager a significant sum of money that there are no Americans in Iran, since we do not have diplomatic relations with Iran, do not allow American "tourists" or "businessmen" to travel to Iran and, iirc, have a ban in place against Iranian goods being legally exported to the US from Iran.
I am, of course, using Iran solely as an illustration.
I reported these findings of Juante and others and my and others reactions to them to Charles as I thought they would make an "interesting" thread and especially because not a word about this scam has been published in the MSM.
I still think it's threadworthy, but even if not, it could go a long way to understand "Obama’s success in bringing in campaign cash, longtime political observers say, has fundamentally altered the relationship between candidate and constituency group."


Sorry for the repost folks, but don't understand why this comment didn't generate more interest.
We are talking about Obama receiving MILLIONS of dollars from non-existent overseas Americans.

191 realwest  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:07:29am

re: #187 Robert Schwartz Try believing my #161 - re-posted at #190.

192 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:08:09am

re: #190 realwest

interesting, can you give more details and links?

193 redmonkey  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:09:16am

re: #147 firebreather
I am not talking about all Americans Jews, I am talking about immigrants from former USSR(most of them Jew. They vote Republicans in big margins(at least 70%). Recent survey on Russian-American TV station gave Bush 64% approval rating and you know, average by USA is 28%.

194 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:10:14am

re: #190 realwest

I see it and am trying to come to grips with a it a bit...

How is it possible that this is overlooked... Well, I mean I know... But even by our own folks...

195 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:11:42am

re: #173 Robert Schwartz

I wish I could remember where I read it, but I did read an essay by Michael Barone, who said that the Dems cannot carry Florida without a big vote in southeast Florida (Dade, Broward, and Palm Bach counties). And there area couple of million Jews in those Counties, who have voted Dem in past elections.

Not a couple million Jews, but a few hundred thousand.

Losing the Jewish vote there certainly could be enough to tip the state to McCain.

That would be extremely helpful for McCain, but not by itself sufficient. Ohio and PA still matter. . .a lot.

196 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:13:55am

re: #187 Robert Schwartz

So that is why he was giving a speech at a fundraiser on San Francisco's Billionaires Row.

Don't believe everything the MSM says.


It isn't a question of belief, since the extent of donations are public and have to be reported regularly (I think monthly) by all candidates.

In Obama's case, as the other candidates (including Clinton) have faltered, he's had a surge of cash.

That's what happens. . .the dollars inevitably flow to the strongest candidate, since people don't want to spend their money supporting (or cynically speaking, influencing) losers who aren't going to hold public office.

197 EE  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:14:19am

re: #193 redmonkey

I am not talking about all Americans Jews, I am talking about immigrants from former USSR(most of them Jew. They vote Republicans in big margins(at least 70%). Recent survey on Russian-American TV station gave Bush 64% approval rating and you know, average by USA is 28%.

Interesting fact, that Jews from countries that were formerly in the USSR vote conservatively, and support Republican candidates. Thanks for that information.

198 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:14:52am

re: #193 redmonkey

I am not talking about all Americans Jews, I am talking about immigrants from former USSR(most of them Jew. They vote Republicans in big margins(at least 70%). Recent survey on Russian-American TV station gave Bush 64% approval rating and you know, average by USA is 28%.

because Russians get, what a lot of Americans have forgotten. That wars can last a long time and require sacrifices and that they're necessary to keep a country safe.

You see the same thing among a lot of first generation Eastern Europeans in America, not counting the younger eurotrash.

199 realwest  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:15:02am

re: #192 sultan_knish
Ah, well, I suck at transferring someone else's link, but if you go to the thread yesterday "How Badly Did Obama Lose in West Virginia" and look at comment #419, by Juante, he has a link there - and if you go further down that thread you'll find other comments about how long it's been up and running.

200 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:17:01am

re: #193 redmonkey

I am not talking about all Americans Jews, I am talking about immigrants from former USSR(most of them Jew. They vote Republicans in big margins(at least 70%). Recent survey on Russian-American TV station gave Bush 64% approval rating and you know, average by USA is 28%.

Again, people who are from formerly Communist Bloc countries tend to be die-hard pro-business (and anti-Socialist), and that means Republican.

But Jewish-American emigrants from Russia? We're talking a small fraction of an already tiny minority here.

201 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:17:06am

re: #199 realwest

Color me shocked that the Obama campaign is running this illegal operation... I'm sure when and if it gets out there he will find yet another scapegoat to throw under the proverbial bus...

202 realwest  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:17:32am

re: #194 tfc3rid Hey my friend - check out my link to Juante's comment where he has the link to the story at my comment #199 above.

203 redmonkey  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:17:34am

re: #154 looking closely

NJ is now swing state even by MSM if BHO would nominated. In NY, it is 6 or 8% lead by BHO, but Italian, Russian, Hispanic votes could give NY to McCain. Remember, NY had Republican Governor for last 3 terms.

204 tfc3rid  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:19:42am

re: #203 redmonkey

NJ is now swing state even by MSM if BHO would nominated. In NY, it is 6 or 8% lead by BHO, but Italian, Russian, Hispanic votes could give NY to McCain. Remember, NY had Republican Governor for last 3 terms.

6 to 8%... What polls are you looking at... Most I see have it averaging HObama 53 McCain 37...

205 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:20:27am
Since their arrival in large numbers from the Soviet Union in the late 1970s and their growth to the point where they comprise an estimated 20 percent of the Jews in the five boroughs, the Russian-speaking community has been a classic swing constituency.

In 2000, Russian Jews in New York are believed to have voted for Gore over Bush by a margin of about 77-20.

The formation of an organization known as Russian American Jews for Bush headed by community leaders including Dr. Igor Branovan, president of Russian American Jews for Israel, and Valery Weinberg, editor of Novoye Russkoye Slovo, the Russian-speaking community’s only daily newspaper. There is no similar high-profile effort in the Russian community on behalf of Kerry.

A plethora of commentators in the Russian-language electronic and print media advocating on behalf of Bush and none on behalf of Kerry. All of the commentators on Russian-language television stations RTVI and RTN and radio stations Peoples’ Wave and New Life are strongly, even stridently, pro-Bush, and nearly all of the community newspapers have an overtly pro-Bush position.

The fact that a young Russian-born attorney, Alex Kaplan, will be on the Republican ballot in the 46th Assembly District in heavily Russian south Brooklyn against the incumbent, Adele Cohen, who is disliked by many in the Russian community.

Though Russians are believed to be upwards of 20 percent of the total Jewish population of New York City and about 12 percent of the Jewish population nationally, 30 to 40 percent of the Russian Jews are not yet citizens and therefore are unable to vote, and only about 59 percent of eligible Russian voters have voted in recent elections compared to about 79 percent of the total Jewish population.

Nevertheless, the swing of Russian Jews toward the GOP, if it continues, has the potential to make the larger Jewish community considerably less Democratic in the longer term.

Branovan, an increasingly prominent Russian community leader, said “I decided to take a leadership role in support of Bush in our community because Bush has a proven record on fighting international terror and providing Israel with defensible borders.”

Asked why he believes Russian Jews are coming down so differently on the election than American Jews, Branovan said, “The two communities have different conceptions and priorities. Israel is the most important issue for Russian Jews, in part because a higher percentage of us have close relatives in Israel than do most American Jews. We see Bush as the spiritual son of Ronald Reagan and have a cultural preference for strong leaders, not those who vacillate like Kerry does.”

According to Sam Kliger, a sociologist who directed the upcoming survey of Russian voter attitudes on behalf of the AJCommittee, “Having seen 9-11 with their own eyes and having lost friends and loved ones to terrorism in Israel, Russians relate well to Bush’s talk of fighting an evil enemy in Islamic fundamentalism, just as Reagan did against communism. For Russians, who mainly depend on earned income, receiving a $500 check in the mail thanks to Bush’s tax cuts was a big deal. Russians believe strongly in family values and support Bush in his opposition to gay marriage.

[Link: www.ajcrussian.org...]

Ultimately, Sheinkopf said, the political differences between Russian Jews and native-born Jews may not be as great as they are now being perceived.

“It seems to me that the overall Jewish community is moving toward the center-right,” he said. “These days the Jewish agenda is less ideological and more bread and butter. Jews are a lot more concerned about Israel and anti-Semitism than they are about abortion and gay rights.”

206 redmonkey  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:21:06am

re: #200 looking closely

It is big enough number. Also, they are mostly living in swing states:NY,NJ,FL,OH,PA.

207 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:21:27am

re: #200 looking closely

this is much less about pro-business and more about pro war on terror

208 realwest  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:22:19am

Well it's been grand as usual folks but I gotta go eat LUNCH!
Hope you all have a good day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

209 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:23:48am

[Link: www.opinionjournal.com...]


Pity Larry Lowenthal. His job as executive director of the Boston branch of the American Jewish Committee (AJC) includes finding and training leaders from among the 700,000 Russian Jews who have immigrated to the U.S. in the last 30 years. Mr. Lowenthal has fared well: Today there are Russians helping to guide a number of major Jewish organizations, like the one called Boston for Israel. But now these immigrants turn out to be . . . oh no! Republicans!

To judge by his public statements and writings, Mr. Lowenthal's idea of a faithful Jew is someone who opposes the nomination of Judge John Roberts to the U.S. Supreme Court, supports gay rights, abortion and euthanasia, and demands a strong separation of church and state. After all, as Mr. Lowenthal concluded approvingly in a July op-ed for the Jewish Advocate, Jews are "the most liberal" and "the least religious people in America."

Imagine his consternation when an avalanche of emails from Russian Jews began to pour in to the Web site of the Jewish Russian Telegraph, a daily blog, in response to his article. About 100 people wrote to say that Mr. Lowenthal needed to stop making "outrageous statements" on behalf of people whom he doesn't represent.

Alex Koifman, who arrived in the U.S. from Belarus in 1978, and whom Mr. Lowenthal trained for his position as a board member at the Boston AJC, criticized his old teacher for overstepping his bounds, saying: "Since when are these concerns [abortion, gay rights, and church-state separation] concerns that are specific to the Jewish community? These are the Left's concerns."


In August, Mr. Lowenthal found himself in hot water again. During an interview with the Boston public radio station, he showered praise on the leaders of the Islamic Society of Boston. When Russian Jews learned that the society was distributing Arabic-language pamphlets with the words of Dr. Yusuf Abdullah al-Qaradawi, a cleric who condones suicide bombings, they were outraged. The Telegraph editor wrote an article contrasting Mr. Lowenthal's intolerance toward their community with his embrace of the local Muslims.

Mr. Lowenthal finally became so exasperated by these conflicts that he emailed Jim Kaufman, the immediate past president of the local AJC: "I am sorry we ever started up with the Russians." Unfortunately, his confessional somehow fell into Russian hands, and Mr. Koifman published it in the Telegraph.

All these incidents have led a few dozen Russian Jews, who refer to themselves as "the new Boston Minutemen," to demand Mr. Lowenthal's resignation. He delivered an abject public apology for his email but didn't take back previous statements about what Jews should stand for.

210 vagabond trader  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:24:47am

WTF? The Obama has the Jewish vote so his supporters think now is the time to insult them? Jews wake up, this guy is no friend of you or America!

211 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:26:25am

[Link: www.volokh.com...]

The rapid growth of the Russian Jewish community over the last 30 years has increased the potential importance of this constituency. According to the WSJ article linked above, there are now some 700,000 Russian immigrant Jews in the US, which is about 12% of the total American Jewish population. It is also perhaps worth noting that nearly all of the Russian Jewish academics and intellectuals I can think of are conservative or libertarian - a striking fact given the reality that academics tend to be far more liberal than the general population. While Russian Jews are currently underrepresented in the intellectual world relative to native-born Jews, the gap is likely to keep closing as immigrants rise in socioeconomic status. If Russian Jews continue to increase in numbers and political/intellectual influence, the Jewish establishment may find it more costly to ignore our concerns than has been the case so far.

212 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:34:18am
213 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:46:43am

re: #203 redmonkey

NJ is now swing state even by MSM if BHO would nominated. In NY, it is 6 or 8% lead by BHO, but Italian, Russian, Hispanic votes could give NY to McCain. Remember, NY had Republican Governor for last 3 terms.

Whoa. . .

Polls are intrinsically unreliable, though I know of no such poll showing McCain ahead of Obama (and presumeably polling includes the minority groups you mentioned). I also

The last Governor of NY was Eliot Spitzer. In case you didn't hear, he is a Democrat. The current NY governor is a Democrat. The previous NY Governor was George Pataki, a Republican.

The last four Governors of NJ were Democrats: John Corzine, Richard Codey, Jim McGreevey.

In any case, the governor is somewhat irrelevant. Mitt Romney was governor of MA, but he'd be unlikely to carry that state in a Presidential election.

The last time NJ went red in a Presidential election was 1988, when George Bush beat Michael Dukakis.

214 sultan_knish  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:51:51am

re: #213 looking closely


The last Governor of NY was Eliot Spitzer. In case you didn't hear, he is a Democrat. The current NY governor is a Democrat. The previous NY Governor was George Pataki, a Republican.

The last four Governors of NJ were Democrats: John Corzine, Richard Codey, Jim McGreevey.

In any case, the governor is somewhat irrelevant. Mitt Romney was governor of MA, but he'd be unlikely to carry that state in a Presidential election.

The last time NJ went red in a Presidential election was 1988, when George Bush beat Michael Dukakis.

The current governor of New York never won an election. He was just the Lt. Governor there when Spitzer was impeached. So I wouldn't count him.

Spitzer won mainly because the Republican party in the State insists on preventing any Republicans from actually being elected to higher office. Which is how we got Hillary Clinton as the State Senator.

Why they do this is a mystery that only they can solve.

But yes I don't think it's too likely that McCain will take New York. But the threat of losing core votes and core states is enough to make Dems waste resources defending them.

It's a time honored tactic.

215 looking closely  Wed, May 14, 2008 12:00:40pm

re: #212 ploome hineni

right

Jews in America 2% of the population..% of Jews voting...?
who knows?

of course the Jews voting for McCain determined the election

/halp


Again, to the extent that the Jewish vote will "matter" in '08, its to influence the outcomes in FL, PA, and to a much lesser extent OH.

As we remember from 2000, FL is *NOT* trivial, and there is a large Jewish population in South Fl. If Obama really did lose all the Jewish vote, that could potentially cost him the election.

But I predict that it won't happen that way.

McCain will probably do roughly as well among Jews as Bush has. . .which is to say he'll probably earn about 30% of the Jewish vote, possibly less, with Obama getting over 2/3 of the Jewish vote.

216 Robert Schwartz  Wed, May 14, 2008 12:04:51pm

#83 ploome hineni:

re: #2 MigueldowninMexico: Why? O why? do so many Jews vote Dem? /Puzzled

tikkun olam -- a sincere responsibility and need to help others, to repair the world

.

A confusion of cause and effect.

The Democrats current collection of policy prescriptions is obviously political. Take budget deficits, when the Dems were in power budget deficits were Keynesian measures to stave off recession, now that there is a Republican President, it is stealing from our children.

A Jew who claims to be for the Dems because he is concerned with Tikkun Olam, is rationalizing.

The real answer is history. FDR gave Jews government jobs. Eisenhower screwed Israel in the Suez crisis by siding with Nasser and the Soviets.

217 Miss Molly  Wed, May 14, 2008 12:21:42pm

Any group that does not support the Obama campaign will be labeled an "unnecessary group" or a "racist group" or most likely both. No one will be allowed to question the Obama program and anyone who does will be called a racist.

Just a reminder, Obama spent all of 142 days working in the United States Senate . After that he started running for President. His total Federal Government experience is 142 days.

218 pegcity  Wed, May 14, 2008 12:22:41pm

re: #217 Miss Molly

Obama's qualifications for president are he really want's to be president, oh and hes black, and has great teeth

219 JustMyView  Wed, May 14, 2008 12:25:57pm

re: #112 ploome hineni

no
when a Jews abandons the last practice associated with Judiasm, what remains is a secular humanism

are you aware that almost every single city has a 'Jewish' hospital? think about that...2% of the population? ..how do they do it?

The Jewish community is exceptionally generous in terms of philanthropy, but I don't think "almost every city" has a Jewish hospital. I'm not aware of one in any of the four major cities I've lived in.

220 Catttt  Wed, May 14, 2008 12:37:50pm

So, HuffPo, does Senator Obama "need" the Catholic vote? I'm Catholic.

Does he need the Democrat vote? I'm a Democrat.

Gallup Poll tracking data for March show Clinton and Obama running about evenly among both Jewish and Protestant Democrats. But when it comes to Catholic voters, Clinton leads Obama by nearly 20 percentage points, 56 percent to 37 percent. Clinton is a Methodist; Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ.

Source: [Link: ncronline.org...]

And Catholic Republicans - don't even go there, Senator Obama. You're not going to get their vote.

221 JustMyView  Wed, May 14, 2008 12:37:55pm

re: #161 realwest


I noted yesterday, following a comment made by Juante, that apparently if you go to Obama's website, you can still contribute up to $200 if you are not currently residing in the US and you need only check a box indicating that you are an American Citizen. Then, again I believe Juante, discovered thousands of contributions from such places as...Iran. And other ME countries with which we are not exactly on the best of terms.

I've asked several times for anyone to point to a single example of such a contribution, but no one has. Can you?

222 JustMyView  Wed, May 14, 2008 12:46:06pm

re: #194 tfc3rid


How is it possible that this is overlooked... Well, I mean I know... But even by our own folks...

Possibly it has not been discussed much because no one has provided a scintilla of proof that it is true.

223 redmonkey  Wed, May 14, 2008 1:23:10pm

re: #213 looking closely
Potaki won 3 election in row. 4 last election for major of NY City won by republicans(Guliany and Blomberg). Before Jim McGreevey governor of NJ was republican

224 rcris5  Wed, May 14, 2008 2:05:06pm

#180 looking closely

Excellent points and allow me to amplify the fact that the MSM is totally in the bag for Obomber...he could be photographed raping little boys and it would be portrayed as an act of mentoring charity by WAPO or NY Times.

Ultimately it will boil down to issues of national security and the size of government. I trust that Americans will reject self-loathing pacifism and sugar coated national socialism. We will have to suffer the seething press as they continue the love-affliction over Obomber and blame his defeat on racist America.

My poorly constructed point was intended to convey the way the Dems rape, take and toss. For years the Black community has delivered their vote to the Dems and they still have to eat in the kitchen. Jews slavishly vote for Lib Dems and are teated like whores by a bad pimp. It would be much better to vote Republican and exercise real power and influence.

225 Alibaba  Wed, May 14, 2008 2:22:54pm

I was about to say the same thing!
If you are Catholic and voted for Gore,
go to confession and
SIN NO MORE!re: #4 looking closely

226 Alibaba  Wed, May 14, 2008 2:25:04pm

re: #215 looking closely
Last night Bob Grant predicted that McCain will get 40% of the Jewish vote (and of course the MSM will report it as less).

227 Alibaba  Wed, May 14, 2008 2:27:39pm

re: #214 sultan_knish
the RINOs in NY State don't want to win and despise conservative Republicans such as John Faso who was slaughtered when he ran against the pimp known as Eliot Spitzer. And they despise pro life Republicans.

228 Robert Schwartz  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:42:21pm

#195 looking closely:

Not a couple million Jews, but a few hundred thousand.

:

My apologies:

"Who are the Jews of Palm Beach County?" by Larry Luxner on January 20, 2006:

Florida’s Palm Beach County now has 255,000 Jews, making it the fourth-largest Jewish community in the nation. ... Forty-two percent of South Florida’s 603,000 Jews now live in Palm Beach County, compared to 40 percent in Broward and 18 percent in Miami-Dade County. ... Twenty-five percent of Palm Beach County households are Jewish, a ratio that rises to 48.6 percent for the county’s southern half. This compares to 22.3 percent for Broward, 15 percent for New York City, 7.6 percent for Los Angeles, 6.5 percent for Miami-Dade, 2.5 percent for Detroit and 1.7 percent for Houston.

I think those number can swing the Florida election pretty easily, considering how close it has been for the past few elections.

229 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 6:58:18pm
230 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 7:01:58pm
231 Render  Thu, May 15, 2008 12:34:09am

re: #216 Robert Schwartz

For the first twenty years of it's existence the newborn nation of Israel lived under an international embargo on weapons purchases. Almost all of Israel major weapons purchases during that era were under the table black market type deals. The exception being France, who sold Israel their first jet fighters in 1955.

In 1968 Lyndon Johnson (D) forcefully cast that embargo aside, in spite of the Liberty Accident.

So FDR and Eisenhower are not the reason...

OVER
BOMBER,
R


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