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Lebanese Government Really Is Capitulating

Wed, May 14, 2008 at 3:02:09 pm PDT

I’ve seen quite a few blog posts arguing that this development is a loss for Hizballah, but I don’t see it. Hizballah comes out of this stronger, not weaker, with an illegal communications network that is reportedly capable of eavesdropping on all telephone calls in Lebanon, and their man in charge of security at Beirut Airport. This is a win for Hizballah, not the Lebanese government: Lebanon cancels anti-Hezbollah measures.

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Lebanon’s government cancelled measures on Wednesday that angered the Iranian-backed Hezbollah movement and triggered the worst internal conflict since the country’s 1975-90 civil war.

The U.S.-backed government of Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said in a statement after a meeting that it was taking the step in line with a request by the Lebanese army to preserve civil peace and promote an Arab League mediation effort to end Lebanon’s 18-month-old political crisis.

“The cabinet decided to agree on the suggestion of the army commander ... which includes the cancellation of the two decisions,” the statement, read by Information Minister Ghazi al-Aridi, said.

A senior opposition source welcomed the move. “We welcome the government’s step and we see that it forms the prelude to end our disobedience campaign,” he told Reuters.

The source said the opposition would end the disobedience campaign once the ruling coalition agrees to talks. He said such an announcement was expected on Thursday.

Shortly after Aridi read the statement, Hezbollah supporters fired into the air in Beirut to celebrate what the group sees as a major blow to the government and its allies.

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209 comments

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1 galloping granny  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:03:40pm

I saw this earlier and thought exactly the same - Hizballah is now in charge of Lebanon.

2 DesertSage  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:03:59pm

Obama should go over there and 'talk' to the immediately!

3 pat  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:04:05pm

This will be a dangerous times for Christians.

4 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:04:29pm

OK, it's official, the Lebanese gov't did back down:
Government officially revokes decisions

The Lebanese government on Wednesday night announced it would revoke the two decisions that sparked the worst sectarian violence to harass Lebanon since the civil war between 1975 and 1990.

On Tuesday, May 6, the cabinet announced it would open a probe into a private Hezbollah network and would reassign head of airport security Brigadier General Wafiq Chouqair based on allegations of his tie to Hezbollah.

Hezbollah Secretary General Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah had previously said he regarded the moves as a declaration of war and the ensuing sectarian fighting between rival supporters left at least 65 people dead and 200 wounded, according to AFP.

Around 11:00 p.m. on Wednesday, May 14, Information Minister Ghazi Aridi said the government would back down on the decisions in accordance with an Army Command’s statement, which stated that the military would take control of the probe and would question Chouqair but not reassign him.

“There is no winner in what happened, but there is a loser and that is Lebanon,” Aridi stated.

But this fight is not over yet... more to come in the next few days. Still too early to declare Hezbollah the winner.

5 zombie  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:04:51pm

Get ready for the Hezbollah vs Israel War II.

Wouldn't want to be Hezbollah this time around.

6 Whiterasta  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:05:22pm

Appeasement always works. Ask Nevile Chamberlain and Jimmah Cattah.

7 stead63  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:06:02pm

Israel wont take this well...

8 VegasRick  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:06:30pm

re: #3 pat

This will be a dangerous times for Christians.

This will be a dangerous times for Christians humans.

9 Tarkus289  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:06:40pm

re: #5 zombie

I'd love to say I agree with you, but I'll believe it when I see it.

/Hope you are right

10 Irene NYC  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:06:59pm

Ralph Peters has already called this a hugh Hizballah win.

11 stead63  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:07:09pm

Should we thank Yimmah Cartah for help in this one?

12 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:07:22pm

Increased communication abilities is always a plus for anyone.

13 Whiterasta  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:07:52pm

re: #5 zombie

Why ever not, Zombie? The Israelis will kick them around the block. The UN will step in. The media will go berserk and Israel will back off.

Again.

14 Irene NYC  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:08:01pm

For Israel to really take Hizballah down, Olmert has to go.

15 Tarkus289  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:08:19pm

The whole planet is a house of cards, we are just waiting for it to fall.

16 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:08:32pm

Shortly after Aridi read the statement, Hezbollah supporters fired into the air in Beirut to celebrate what the group sees as a major blow to the government and its allies.

Hizballah sure has a funny way of mourning a setback. Yep.

/blink

17 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:08:46pm

The Iran-Syria axis is making a play and succeeding in a play for Lebanon. Iran made it's play and won in Gaza. Israel now has Iranian controlled entities on both N. and S. borders.

Bad juju mon.

18 galloping granny  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:08:58pm

Wow! Barrack Hussein Obama has suddenly become a Christian and he is advertising it in Kentucky. See here -

[Link: hotair.com...]

19 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:09:07pm

re: #14 Irene NYC

From your lips...

20 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:10:20pm

Ot:

and from the other armistace line: "terrorists"

sorry for ot so soon.

21 MikeySDCA  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:10:20pm

The army's role in all of this is very puzzling. Am I the only paranoid who smells a hint of military coup?

22 Tarkus289  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:10:24pm

I wish Israel could figure out a way to make those celebratory bullets
return to earth with deadly force. That would be poetic.

23 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:10:33pm

re: #18 galloping granny

Wow! Barrack Hussein Obama has suddenly become a Christian and he is advertising it in Kentucky. See here -

[Link: hotair.com...]

You mean a real honest-to-goodness Christian? Or an "Issa-was-a-Muslim" kind of Christian?

24 VegasRick  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:11:23pm

re: #13 Whiterasta

Why ever not, Zombie? The Israelis will kick them around the block. The UN will step in. The media will go berserk and Israel will back off.

Again.

Israel should tell the world (including us if necessary) to fuck off and mind their own business. They are being attacked daily by these murderers, what would we (USA) do if Canada or Mexico did this same type of thing to us?

25 stead63  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:11:31pm

re: #23 Kenneth

You mean a real honest-to-goodness Christian? Or an "Issa-was-a-Muslim" kind of Christian?

What day is it? I think his religious views flop more than John Kerry.

26 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:12:06pm

re: #21 MikeySDCA

Hezbollah has some of there people in the military. Not all the military, but some of it. There are also other factions, Chrsitians, Druze & Sunni who have sallied with Hezbollah from time to time. Lebanon is incredibly factionalized.

27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:12:10pm
The U.S.-backed government of Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said in a statement after a meeting that it was taking the step in line with a request by the Lebanese army to preserve civil peace and promote an Arab League mediation effort to end Lebanon’s 18-month-old political crisis.

I.E. surrender. Say hello to another Syria/Iran.

28 Eagle  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:12:55pm

So the cedar falls?

I just wish the MSM would call this what it is. A coup. Enough with the "government forces" fight "opposition forces" crap.

29 galloping granny  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:13:23pm

re: #23 Kenneth

You mean a real honest-to-goodness Christian? Or an "Issa-was-a-Muslim" kind of Christian?

Charles should grab the Kentucky ad. Make a great thread. Complete with a cross and a brand new slogan. Faith. Hope. Change.

30 Tarkus289  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:14:10pm

re: #28 Eagle

You forgot "American backed"

31 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:14:30pm

-- Believe it or not, its all in Jewish prophecy

32 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:14:34pm

re: #21 MikeySDCA

The army's role in all of this is very puzzling. Am I the only paranoid who smells a hint of military coup?

The new head of the Lebanese Army id in bed with Hizballah.

33 LeftJustAintRight  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:14:35pm

Iran has Annexed the Whole Middle East Region
As soon as POTUS Obama withdraws the troops they will take Iraq
Ans Israel will be screwed

34 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:14:52pm

re: #28 Eagle

So the cedar falls?

I just wish the MSM would call this what it is. A coup. Enough with the "government forces" fight "opposition forces" crap.

They have a new one. In the article, some "senior opposition source" called it a "disobedience campaign."

35 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:15:00pm

re: #33 LeftJustAintRight

see 31

36 MikeySDCA  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:15:23pm

re: #26 Kenneth

Yes, indeed, but it looks like the army as an institution is dictating policy after doing nothing to stop the violence.

37 stevieray  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:15:27pm

Iran now controls much of Lebanon. The ball is in the Saudi's court, they will have to step up or step aside.

38 LeftJustAintRight  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:15:55pm

I think revelations is becoming reality

39 stead63  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:16:12pm

re: #31 WrathofG-d

-- Believe it or not, its all in Jewish prophecy

all we are lacking is russia to make a move and the US to deny them...which will happen if Obama-bin Floppin gets the office.

40 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:16:40pm
41 shibumi  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:17:17pm

re: #17 jcm

The Iran-Syria axis is making a play and succeeding in a play for Lebanon. Iran made it's play and won in Gaza. Israel now has Iranian controlled entities on both N. and S. borders.

Bad juju mon.

Other part of the story?

Iran now has American controlled entitles on both their E. and W. borders.

42 OldLineTexan  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:17:20pm

re: #24 VegasRick

In a word, nothing.

We have had cross-border incursions by Mexican military vehicles manned by people in Mexican military uniforms and done nothing.

Whole sections of Mexico are basically run by drug cartels who do "business" in the US with impunity. Anybody in the local levels of Mexican government that doesn't like it has an "accident".

And a heroic US Attorney in Texas has a grand track record of prosecuting US Border Patrol Agents rather than the dope dealers they are chasing.

43 freebird100  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:17:22pm

I read a comment by Caroline Glick I think it was that really made sense. Hizbullah does not want to do away with the Lebanese government because they are their fig leaf for legitimacy with the international community. For instance, during Israel's war last summer, it was the Lebanese government's pleadings with the US to put pressure on Israel that resulted in Israel sparing many legitimate and critical military targets that affected the outcome of the war. I recommend you find Caroline's article The End of Lebanon at Jpost.com.

44 LeftJustAintRight  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:17:32pm

December 21 2012
I did not really believe in it but I may have to do some research

45 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:18:04pm

re: #44 LeftJustAintRight

12/12/2012

46 LeftJustAintRight  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:19:08pm

re: #45 WrathofG-d

Thanks
Do you think there is any merit ?

47 stead63  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:19:17pm

re: #45 WrathofG-d


cant say that I believe that...not to say its far off from that but thats a bold statement against Revelations that claims that "no one knows the day or time."

48 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:19:52pm

Looks like the Arab's are caving into the Mullah's(good luck askholes): Rafsanjani Meets Saudi Envoy

Meanwhile, the world is over-supplied with oil and Iran is leasing super-tankers for storage: Iran Charters Ships For Crude Oil Storage - Senior Official

In fact: Iran Confirms Supertanker for 90-Day Crude Storage

Pretty cool, huh? The 'market' at work.

49 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:19:57pm

re: #44 LeftJustAintRight

December 21 2012
I did not really believe in it but I may have to do some research

Many people, my father included, are keeping a close eye on that date.

50 wolfie  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:20:07pm

re: #33 LeftJustAintRight

Iran has Annexed the Whole Middle East Region
As soon as POTUS Obama withdraws the troops they will take Iraq
Ans Israel will be screwed

Carter handed Iran over to the mullahs.
Obama will hand over the rest.
Inexperienced, naive posers, loaded with anti-semitic connections. ..
Consumed with a sense of their own moral superiority to the rest of us.

51 shibumi  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:21:01pm

re: #44 LeftJustAintRight

December 21 2012
I did not really believe in it but I may have to do some research

I've done some superficial research into this, and if I recall correctly (this was a while ago), most of the information regarding this topic traces directly back to the History Channel special, which makes it a bit less credible I think.

52 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:21:40pm

re: #46 LeftJustAintRight

re: #47 stead63

I believe that when one looks at what is going on in the world there is merit to the Jewish prophecy of an end-of-days.

As to when it will be exactly.....NO. I would never bet on an exact day. I was just stating that the Mayan calendar (as does other unrelated calanders) ends on 12/12/2012.

History Channel has a very good program on the End Of Days from multiple sources.

53 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:22:37pm
54 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:23:06pm

re: #41 shibumi

Other part of the story?

Iran now has American controlled entitles on both their E. and W. borders.

Dat true.

But is there the will to use 'em.

Right now if GWB so much as looks dirty at Dinnerjacket, congress and the MSM have meltdowns.

55 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:23:17pm
56 stead63  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:23:41pm

re: #52 WrathofG-d

I give plenty of merit to the possibility of it happening due to the way of the world currently but this has been a re-occuring thing for thousands of years. It's just more publisized this time around.

57 nyc redneck  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:23:43pm

barak hussein showed up in cape giradeau, mo. yesterday, w/, of all things, a flag pin on his lapel. (he thinks we're stupid, that idiot)

58 Gumby  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:23:51pm

re: #25 stead63

What day is it? I think his religious views flop more than John Kerry.

Must be tough being all things to all people....

59 hayseed  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:24:04pm

OT......the baby killers back obama

60 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:24:13pm
61 Nevergiveup  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:24:43pm

re: #54 jcm

Dat true.

But is there the will to use 'em.

Right now if GWB so much as looks dirty at Dinnerjacket, congress and the MSM have meltdowns.

Well the only thing we have going for us is that with only 6 & 1/2 months to go, what does President Bush really have to lose by doing the right thing!

62 gymnast  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:25:04pm

An Iranian-Syrian triumph as Iran seeks to push the Shia Crescent through Arabia to the Mediterranean Sea. Once in Place, it will deal with Israel and the Sunni at its leisure. Or so it thinks.

63 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:27:50pm

re: #53 buzzsawmonkey

Hiz'b'amalek no likey this one?

maybe they like this one better then? (on the left)

64 battletop2  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:28:00pm

The brand spanking new "Most Dangerous Man In The World " is now the new head of the Beirut Intl. Airport security. Flying bombs filled with people (oops, martyrs), anyone? The islamofascists will likely dare the IAF to take them out before they reach Tel Aviv. IMHO.

65 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:28:43pm

re: #55 WrathofG-d

Doomsday History Channel P. 1

It's the HISTORY Channel, not the PROPHECY Channel!
/

66 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:30:16pm

re: #61 Nevergiveup

Well the only thing we have going for us is that with only 6 & 1/2 months to go, what does President Bush really have to lose by doing the right thing!

I hope so. McCain will do what need to been done.
BHO will kiss Dinnerjackets waffle.
HRC will do whatever the focus group tells her, which will be "none of our business."

67 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:30:28pm

Maybe the gov't is using hudna against them, and when its ready, pow, right in the kisser!

68 Russkilitlover  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:30:35pm

re: #5 zombie

Get ready for the Hezbollah vs Israel War II.

Wouldn't want to be Hezbollah this time around.

I wonder if Israel will be offensive or defensive. Will they wait for attack or will they take steps today? From what I'm hearing from everyone regarding Israeli leadership (especially with Olmert wrapped up in corruption investigations), my guess is that they will take a defensive posture.

69 shibumi  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:30:48pm

re: #54 jcm

Dat true.

But is there the will to use 'em.

That my friend, is the question of the hour.

My guess (for what it's worth) is that GWB's decision will have a lot to do with how the election looks. If Obambi looks like he's going to trounce McCain, GWB might just take action because he knows Obambi won't. If John "bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" is doing well, GW might just leave the job for him.

70 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:30:56pm

re: #55 WrathofG-d

Doomsday History Channel P. 1

"...even an internet based prophetic software program!"
Now I'm listening!

71 Whiterasta  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:31:18pm

re: #24 VegasRick

Exactly! Can you imagine all the State Department weenies cutting off military aid to Israel?

It would probably happen. The dirty, stinking business of modern diplomacy.

All those US senators and congressmen who suck up at the teat of saudi-mite oil money........

72 shibumi  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:32:06pm

re: #65 jcm

It's the HISTORY Channel, not the PROPHECY Channel!
/

So I'm guessing you don't watch "UFO Files" on the History Channel either, huh?

: )

73 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:32:17pm

Ayatollah Ghilmeini wrote a brilliant essay about this a few days ago, required reading for all lizards:

The Very Big War

Very frightening.

74 LeftJustAintRight  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:32:42pm

Will Bush start a fight with Iran in December so the New POTUS will have something to keep him/herself busy ?
/sarc

75 abolitionist  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:33:07pm

re: #43 freebird100

[snip] I recommend you find Caroline's article The End of Lebanon at Jpost.com.

This one? Our World: How Lebanon was lost May 12, 2008 20:04 Updated May 13, 2008 11:02

76 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:33:13pm

re: #74 LeftJustAintRight

Will Bush start a fight with Iran in December so the New POTUS will have something to keep him/herself busy ?
/sarc

He might have to unless McCain is elected.

77 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:33:18pm

re: #70 bosforus

"...even an internet based prophetic software program!"
Now I'm listening!

Here is the code:

printf; "12/21/2012";

78 shibumi  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:33:48pm

re: #70 bosforus

"...even an internet based prophetic software program!"
Now I'm listening!

You mean the web bot program?

If yes, that's another concept that mostly traces back to the History Channel program.

Interesting concept though.

79 stead63  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:34:56pm

re: #74 LeftJustAintRight

Will Bush start a fight with Iran in December so the New POTUS will have something to keep him/herself busy ?
/sarc

Hmmmm I would suggest that. Make BHO earn it...*note: crossing fingers and praying hard it wont come to this.

80 LeftJustAintRight  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:35:28pm

I bet I win the Lottery on 12/11/2012
Just my luck

81 Timbre  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:35:50pm

Hey, Hizb u'Allah idiots! Go to Jahannam and stay there!

82 Cognito  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:36:05pm

I'm not sure how -- conceivably -- this could be viewed as a loss for Hezballah. They kicked the government's tail -- and the tail of Lebanon's weird proxy army, Future Group -- all over Beirut. And they got everything they wanted.

Let's face it: If there's anything they aren't taking, it's only because they don't want it.

83 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:36:55pm

re: #78 shibumi

You mean the web bot program?

If yes, that's another concept that mostly traces back to the History Channel program.

Interesting concept though.

I don't know a thing about it. But if it's on the internet that means it's too complicated for it to not be true.

84 Diamond Bullet  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:36:58pm

re: #6 Whiterasta

Appeasement always works. Ask Nevile Chamberlain and Jimmah Cattah.

Seriously. Has giving in to Islamic fundamentalists' demands ever worked? EVER? In the entire 1400+ year history of Islam, has it ever done anything besides encourage further violence?

85 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:37:21pm

re: #82 Cognito

What is odd is that the Army didn't really fight back against Hiz'b'amalek, but instead the opposite Muslim clan and beddoins.

Furthermore, it was the Army that suggested to the politicians that they give in to Hiz'b'amalek.

Sometings fishy!

86 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:39:04pm

This blogger, Information Dissemination writes about naval affairs. Based on US fleet deployment schedules, they are calling August as the date for when the US moves against Iran.

87 Cognito  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:39:11pm

re: #85 WrathofG-d

What is odd is that the Army didn't really fight back against Hiz'b'amalek, but instead the opposite Muslim clan and beddoins.

Furthermore, it was the Army that suggested to the politicians that they give in to Hiz'b'amalek.

Sometings fishy!

The Army was negotiating independent of the Beirut government for a while there, and letting Future Group -- a private company -- do all the shooting.

There's a rift in Lebanon between the government and the army. Not a good sign. Like I said, I suspect the government's only standing right now because Hezballah doesn't want the headache of running Beirut.

88 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:40:06pm
89 opnion  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:41:35pm

re: #18 galloping granny

Wow! Barrack Hussein Obama has suddenly become a Christian and he is advertising it in Kentucky. See here -

[Link: hotair.com...]


Of course Barry is a Christian. He has not been a Muslim for days.
psssst! He still is.

90 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:42:08pm

re: #87 Cognito

When Hezbollah tried to attack the Chouf mountain district the Druze militias whipped them badly. So while the gov't backed down on the rulings, Hezbollah is not a clear winner overall. This gambit is not finished.

91 Russkilitlover  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:42:21pm

re: #85 WrathofG-d


Furthermore, it was the Army that suggested to the politicians that they give in to Hiz'b'amalek.

blockquote>

The government taking requests (*cough*orders!*cough*)
from the army? Yep. That's a coup.

92 itellu3times  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:44:12pm

re: #1 galloping granny

I saw this earlier and thought exactly the same - Hizballah is now in charge of Lebanon.

Oh, I'm sure they're only in charge of the southern areas. And Muslim areas of Beirut. And anywhere else they go and fire a gun, or threaten to.

Like when your tire is only flat on the bottom, no problem.

93 Cognito  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:44:36pm

re: #90 Kenneth

When Hezbollah tried to attack the Chouf mountain district the Druze militias whipped them badly. So while the gov't backed down on the rulings, Hezbollah is not a clear winner overall. This gambit is not finished.

I don't know, man. Chouf Mountain is a diverse area with a pretty-good-sized Christian population. But the Hezb pretty much ran roughshod over Beirut as a whole.

94 shibumi  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:44:55pm

re: #83 bosforus

I don't know a thing about it. But if it's on the internet that means it's too complicated for it to not be true.

hahaha!

Embarrassed to admit I watch all of those History Channel non-history programs.

95 Russkilitlover  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:45:15pm

re: #74 LeftJustAintRight

Will Bush start a fight with Iran in December so the New POTUS will have something to keep him/herself busy ?
/sarc

Sarc? Or maybe not. We could start mixing it up off the coast in Lebanon. It may not be for cynical political reasons, it may be out of necessity. All the more reason to pin BHO's tiny-hiney to some serious questioning about CIC stuff.

96 Shaky Louie  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:46:16pm
A senior opposition source welcomed the move. “We welcome the government’s step and we see that it forms the prelude to end our disobedience campaign,” he told Reuters


Wait...what? A "disobedience campaign" ?!
/Getting dizzy from all the spinning

97 Russkilitlover  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:47:06pm

Wow. Lots of action today. See everyone later.

Charles.....sleep tight!

98 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:47:35pm

re: #93 Cognito

No, it's a fact. The Druze militias shot up the Hezbollah fighters who turned and fled. Hezbollah failed to take any territory there. Go look it up.

99 wolfie  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:47:40pm

I know what we can do to control Hezbollah!
We could have the UN send a peacekeeping force!

/...................spit

100 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:47:45pm

re: #97 Russkilitlover

Wow. Lots of action today. See everyone later.

Charles.....sleep tight!

Amen. I'm outy too. I leave the thread in good hands....

101 opnion  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:47:53pm

You know Beuirt used to be considered the Paris of the Middle East.
Ze capitulatin does semm so how you say?, French mon amie.

102 itellu3times  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:48:41pm

OT: I'm getting ready to capitulate, too. I've been waiting for the Dow to capitulate to high oil prices, but the crazy market seems determined to go up! Is this the Hizbernanke threatening to shoot any bears on sight, trying to establish a bull crescent from Apple to Yahoo?

103 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:49:01pm
104 Cognito  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:50:27pm

re: #98 Kenneth

No, it's a fact. The Druze militias shot up the Hezbollah fighters who turned and fled. Hezbollah failed to take any territory there. Go look it up.

No, I know -- I'm just not sure it constitutes a loss for Hezballah. It's like saying you've moved into every room in my house except a corner of the attic, and then claiming I really showed you who's boss.

Hezballah has a relatively -- relatively -- strong military force, unfortunately. It's nothing by global standards, but they're the biggest bullies in their particular sandbox.

105 Cognito  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:51:03pm

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

As I observed in another thread a few days ago, soon Paris will be the Beirut of Europe.

hahaha

106 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:51:21pm

Right after the Hiz'b'amalek / Israel thing....weren't there reports about Hiz molding with the Army? (hiz is already 1/2 of the gov...so...)

Anyone got time to look into it?

107 stevieray  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:52:10pm

re: #85 WrathofG-d

What is odd is that the Army didn't really fight back against Hiz'b'amalek, but instead the opposite Muslim clan and beddoins.

Furthermore, it was the Army that suggested to the politicians that they give in to Hiz'b'amalek.

Sometings fishy!

There are too many Shia in the army, and the generals don't know who they can trust.

I think the average semi-religious Muslim doesn't want to fight against any of the "Party of God" groups. That nagging thought "What if they are right?" sits in the back of their minds, producing hesitation at best, and paralysis at worst, in the run-of-the-mill Muslim soldier. Even those who are tormented by the hyper religious militias don't want to destroy them, they only want their wrath aimed in a different direction and not at them.

The average Muslim is proving to be nearly powerless against their fanatical brethren... a situation that doesn't bode well for those who want to avoid a massive civilizational war.

108 galloping granny  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:52:54pm

re: #65 jcm

It's the HISTORY Channel, not the PROPHECY Channel!
/

You wouldn't know it lately from the number of shows they run about religion, especially the Old Testament.

109 WrathofG-d  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:53:28pm

U.S. to attack Iran in August....Wrath to be in Israel in August...

hmmmmm

110 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:54:06pm

re: #104 Cognito

Yes, Hezbollah has the strongest single force in Lebanon. But the Lebanese army, combined with the various militias are stronger still. It's a question who can get the various factions to back them. And who controls the army. Hezbollah has some military in their camp, but not all. Furthermore, the support outside the country: Iran & Syria for Hezbollah vs US & France for the gov't must be considered. Much depends on what these outside players are willing and able to do.

So while Hez won an opening battle, they haven't yet won the war.

111 Cognito  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:55:56pm

re: #107 stevieray

The average Muslim is proving to be nearly powerless against their fanatical brethren... a situation that doesn't bode well for those who want to avoid a massive civilizational war.

Exactly so.

It's funny. In the Middle East there's one sure-fire argument stopper, if you're watching two men argue. It's when one holds a finger aloft and says, "The word of Allah says..." or "The Prophet said..."

And that's it. The other guy may not like the use of Allah in the argument, but he'll typically concede the point immediately. It's spooky.

112 Cognito  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:56:45pm

re: #110 Kenneth

Yes, Hezbollah has the strongest single force in Lebanon. But the Lebanese army, combined with the various militias are stronger still. It's a question who can get the various factions to back them. And who controls the army. Hezbollah has some military in their camp, but not all. Furthermore, the support outside the country: Iran & Syria for Hezbollah vs US & France for the gov't must be considered. Much depends on what these outside players are willing and able to do.

So while Hez won an opening battle, they haven't yet won the war.

Quite right.

113 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:57:24pm

re: #108 galloping granny

You wouldn't know it lately from the number of shows they run about religion, especially the Old Testament.

Only History channel I see is at grandma's house. (Don't have cable).

BTW was it you that recommended A&E's Horatio Hornblower series? Watched the first one over the weekend (Netflix) excellent!

114 Whiterasta  Wed, May 14, 2008 3:59:33pm

re: #84 Diamond Bullet

I rest my case.......

115 Render  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:01:00pm

re: #86 Kenneth

Something that blogger didn't mention...

When the HMS Illustrious put to sea a while ago, it did so with just four Harriers on deck. Cuts in the British MOD budgets have reduced the British Harrier fleet to just a handful of flyable aircraft.

Currently the HMS Illustrious (Lusty) has embarked 14 US Marine Harriers to make up the shortages.

WHATEVER
IT
TAKES,
R

116 itellu3times  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:02:24pm

re: #115 Render

Currently the HMS Illustrious (Lusty) has embarked 14 US Marine Harriers to make up the shortages.

Are the US Harriers newer or updated? Just wondering.

117 DesertSage  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:05:16pm

Change!

118 Tigger2005  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:05:32pm

re: #47 stead63

cant say that I believe that...not to say its far off from that but thats a bold statement against Revelations that claims that "no one knows the day or time."

Geez, I'm an atheist and I know that statement is not in Revelation. It's from Jesus in Matthew, I think.

119 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:06:28pm

re: #115 Render

Very interesting!

120 yochanan  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:07:27pm

there is a lebanese gov't WHO KNEW?

121 joecitizen  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:07:50pm
122 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:10:10pm

re: #46 LeftJustAintRight

Thanks
Do you think there is any merit ?

No, I don't. The Mayan calendar merely changes cycles that day. It doesn't end. Wiki has a short write up on it with a decent chart of the Long Count transition dates.

123 Geepers  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:18:20pm

More News You Won't See in the MSM:

Taliban Moving At Half Speed This Year

May 14, 2008: Afghan and security forces waited, and waited, for the Taliban Spring Offensive, but it never came. Gun battles with the Taliban were down 50 percent so far, compared to last year. Roadside bomb attacks were about the same. But Taliban casualties were up, as more Afghan and NATO forces went looking for them. Last year, 8,000 people died in Taliban violence. So far this year, the death toll is 1,200, indicating casualties for the year will be about half what they were last year. This year, a higher proportion of the dead are Taliban and al Qaeda, and a lower proportion civilians. While some Taliban commanders have tried to develop new tactics to reduce casualties (smaller units of Taliban, and avoiding contact with police and troops), nothing has worked. The Afghan army is larger (76,000 troops) and better trained than last year, and there are more foreign troops. Worst of all, more tribal leaders have sided with the government this year, meaning tribal militias are also ready to fight Taliban moving through previously pro-Taliban territory.

124 neverquit  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:25:53pm

Seems like a deal has been made. Iraq for Lebanon.

125 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:26:42pm
126 itellu3times  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:28:03pm

re: #123 Geepers

Taliban Moving At Half Speed This Year

Remarkable, and happy, if true. Why then does the Pentagon want to send another 5k - 10k troops? Well, I know, it never hurts, and just cause things are going well, doesn't mean they couldn't go even better.

127 Daddyg  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:28:24pm

re: #118 Tigger2005

Geez, I'm an atheist and I know that statement is not in Revelation. It's from Jesus in Matthew, I think.

That would be 2nd Peter - however Thessalonians chapter 5 seems to leave a caveat out there for those paying attention...

1 THESSALONIANS Chap 5

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

128 beachkatie  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:30:33pm

re: #18 galloping granny

Wow! Barrack Hussein Obama has suddenly become a Christian and he is advertising it in Kentucky. See here -

[Link: hotair.com...]


You know a Republican can't do that. Remember Huckabee campaign ad?

129 sngnsgt  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:30:42pm
130 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:31:16pm
131 bosforus  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:33:51pm

re: #94 shibumi

hahaha!

Embarrassed to admit I watch all of those History Channel non-history programs.

I watch plenty of them too, just haven't seen that particular one. They're entertaining shows, I'll give 'em that.

132 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:36:19pm

OT: Obama does a feint to remove his 41 point loss from the front pages.

Edwards backs Obama

David “Mudcat” Saunders, a chief adviser for Edwards on rural affairs during his presidential campaign, said the timing of the endorsement couldn’t be better given Obama’s resounding loss in West Virginia on Tuesday.


“For Barack Obama, I think he ought to kiss Johnny Edwards on the lips to kill this 41-point loss,” he added. “The story is not going to be the 41-point loss. It’s going to be Edwards’ endorsement.”

Nice try, but no cigar. The 41 point loss stands.

133 DesertSage  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:39:16pm
134 Alouette  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:39:36pm

re: #132 Honorary Yooper

For Barack Obama, I think he ought to kiss Johnny Edwards on the lips

I just threw up a little in my mouth.

135 Kenneth  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:41:52pm

re: #132 Honorary Yooper

Oh for the love of... check Drudge for the most revolting photo of the week.

136 jaunte  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:42:34pm

re: #129 sngnsgt

”I hope that he will understand, if he is the nominee, the degree of disillusionment that will happen if he doesn't become a greater man than he will ever be,” Penn said.

Well, that's certainly clear.
/

137 jaunte  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:44:14pm

re: #135 Kenneth

Edwards looks as shiny as a plastic Burger King in that shot.

138 LeePro  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:46:34pm

re: #129 sngnsgt

Sean Penn's remark[from your link]:

”I hope that he will understand, if he is the nominee, the degree of disillusionment that will happen if he doesn't become a greater man than he will ever be,” Penn said.


I would dearly love for him to elaborate a little on that...

139 joecitizen  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:47:33pm

re: #125 savage_nation

that long? wow..............

I miss Frankie.

here ya go,sav

140 Eagle  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:47:45pm

re: #133 DesertSage

Darth Vader attacks Jedi Church founder.

Hughes claimed he couldn't remember the incident, having drunk the better part of a 2 1/2-gallon (10-liter) box of wine beforehand.

It just writes itself !

141 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:48:21pm

Good evening, Lizards.

142 Luigi  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:48:28pm

Great article by Spengler. Check out his graph especially.

Why Israel is the world's happiest country
[Link: www.atimes.com...]

I don't know if this has been posted already. I haven't been able to get into lgf recently on my Comcast internet connection.

143 Eagle  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:50:07pm

re: #30 Tarkus289

You forgot "American backed"

Yup. That term has also been pissing me off.

If the MSM was fully backing the enemy, would we see any difference in their reporting?

144 LeePro  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:51:51pm

re: #135 Kenneth

Oh for the love of... check Drudge for the most revolting photo of the week.

Egad! ! !
More revolting than the photo is the caption under it:

THE TICKET?

/talk about throwing up...!

145 Eagle  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:52:18pm

re: #34 Fat Jolly Penguin

They have a new one. In the article, some "senior opposition source" called it a "disobedience campaign."

Incredible. I shake my head.

146 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:52:24pm
147 joecitizen  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:53:41pm

re: #144 LeePro

/talk about throwing up...!

that is truly a beatable dem ticket...might not even win their home states..

148 itellu3times  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:54:13pm

re: #142 Luigi

Spengler doesn't show the Arab countries on his birth/suicide chart.

I'm not sure that the chart really measures "happiness", anyway.

149 itellu3times  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:55:01pm

re: #144 LeePro

Just to remind us, Edwards was the veep candidate last time, too.

150 madisonsfriend  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:55:02pm

re: #147 joecitizen

not going to happen according to the commentators- Edwards would pull anyone down.

151 really grumpy big dog johnson  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:55:38pm

The baathification of Lebanon is well underway. Hamas has osbcene materiel, logistical and training support from both Syria and Iran. They've backed down the government, and now can snoop at will on all communications, monitor all movements in and out of the country via air. They have spies and informers crawling on the streets of Beirut and other population centers of Lebanon. No need to change the name to South Syria yet, they are well on the way to being a proxy state utterly controlled by Damascus, the superpuppet of Iran.

152 joecitizen  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:56:28pm

re: #150 madisonsfriend

not going to happen according to the commentators- Edwards would pull anyone down.


yeah well the commentators had W. losing both times ..I'm just sayin'

153 LeePro  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:57:47pm

re: #147 joecitizen

re: #149 itellu3times

re: #150 madisonsfriend

Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmmm."

You're all three probably right.

/breathing again

154 MandyManners  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:57:59pm

"Disobedience campaign"? That sounds like something The Kid would come up with to push my very last button and NOT what Hizb'Allah has done to Lebanon.

IT'S CALLED "TERRORISM," YARA BAYOUMY AND THE REST OF YOU DOLTS AT REUTERS.

155 MandyManners  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:58:37pm

Gah. Off to practice some WPM exercises.

156 missouri boy  Wed, May 14, 2008 4:59:35pm

Obviously, the USA and the UN do not want a lasting peace in this area. If peace was the goal....we would step back and leave Israel to it....imho!

157 MandyManners  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:00:44pm

re: #156 missouri boy

Obviously, the USA and the UN do not want a lasting peace in this area. If peace was the goal....we would step back and leave Israel to it....imho!

Israel does not need permission from ANYONE to do what needs to be done.

158 really grumpy big dog johnson  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:00:56pm

Excuse me, in my previous post I meant to type Hizballah, not Hamas. Don't want to get my terrorists any more confusing than they already are...

159 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:01:17pm
160 MandyManners  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:02:38pm

bbl

161 Catttt  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:04:34pm

OT: O'Reilly is doing a feature tonight - mentioned at top of program - about the "loony left" attacking Jenna Bush's wedding (a piece on this was featured in LGF this past Monday).

162 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:05:37pm
163 Luigi  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:09:27pm

By Yara Bayoumy

One of the most depressing trends in modern journalism is the thought that only someone from a particular ethnic group can practice journalism on events involving people of that ethnic group. It sort of negates the whole idea of journalism.

164 beachkatie  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:10:09pm

re: #159 savage_nation

Hi Lee! Guess where I am?

Were are you savage-nation?

165 sngnsgt  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:11:34pm

...is it just me or are we not hearing, 'Change' as much these days?

166 Racer X  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:12:42pm

All is well.

Edwards just gave Obama the Kiss Of Death™

167 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:13:03pm

On the grim watch.

Official Burma toll: 38,491, with 27,838 people missing, state radio said.However, the United Nations has warned the number of dead likely exceeds 100,000, and that many more may die unless vital aid reaches up to two million survivors.[snip]

The country's ruling junta has come under fire from aid groups for their slow pace in responding to the crisis.

Critics said the relief effort is only delivering an estimated one-tenth of the supplies needed in the devastated delta

While in China: death toll passes 13,000.

The death toll across Sichuan and neighbouring regions has now risen above 13,000, and that figure is expected to continue to soar as rescuers reach more remote areas.
168 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:13:18pm
169 LeftJustAintRight  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:14:07pm

re: #165 sngnsgt

...is it just me or are we not hearing, 'Change' as much these days?


The Change is the Americans putting a Radical Muslim in office.
No need to talk about it anymore

170 Walter Cronanty  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:14:28pm

Totally OT - "Culture of Corruption" in Ohio. Not only is Marc Dann, State AG resigning today, but Pat O'Malley, in heavily D Cuyahoga County, is resigning from County Recorders' Office [elected]. Rumor has it that "kiddie porn" allegations from a messy divorce years ago did him in. Deal with feds in the works, no jail time [rumor - 48 hour rule]. Sorry, but after getting our butts kicked over an overhyped, but in many respects deserved, "culture of corruption" charge in 2006, the irony is ... well, ironic.

171 LeftJustAintRight  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:17:37pm

THE TICKET?Obama /Edwards 08
At a rally in Grand Rapids, Mich., on Wednesday evening, John Edwards endorsed Barack Obama, who was on the stage with him, to be the Democratic nominee for president.

Sounding a theme of a nation divided into parts by walls, Mr. Edwards said, “The reason I am here tonight is that Democratic voters in America have made their choice and so have I.”

Mr. Edwards then went on to say, “There is one man who knows in his heart that it is time to tear down that wall and make one America, Barack Obama.”

Mr. Obama, who had introduced Mr. Edwards as “one of the great leaders we have in the Democratic Party, ” responded by saying he was grateful to him for coming to Michigan and giving his endorsement.

Mr. Obama also noted how Mr. Edwards and his wife, Elizabeth, had emphasized health care as an issue that is of primary concern, then said it would be a major issue in his administration.

The endorsement comes at a time when the appeal of Mr. Obama appears to be lagging among white, blue-collar voters, a group to which Mr. Edwards openly appealed.

172 Yankee Division Son  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:18:33pm

Waaaaayyyyyy OT..

The Ghost Hunters are investigating the battleship USS North Carolina tonight.. (on Sci-Fi channel)

173 mikeinmd  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:18:58pm

re: #159 savage_nation

Hi Lee! Guess where I am?

I know where savage is heading.

May see some of these. Send 'em my love.

174 hermeneutics  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:20:19pm

re: #171 LeftJustAintRight

I think you're on to something, LJAR. The Obama Edwards ticket makes too much sense. And its really leftwing. Its a logical, smart thing for O to do. Youthful. Lefty. Just perfect for him.

All McCain has to do, now, is choose someone who is moderately RePublican like himself and he's got the GE sewn up.

175 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:21:02pm

Rumors of War... (DEBKAfile)

Exclusive: Israeli army braces for more Palestinian attacks after Ashkelon

Israeli units around Gaza, including the air force, are on the highest alert, DEBKAfile’s military sources report, for Palestinian terror groups to follow up their rocket attack on the Ashkelon shopping mall, which injured 100 civilians, with more aggressive actions. Aside from rocket fire, according to our sources, Hamas is planning to stage mass marches Thursday, May 15, to batter the Gaza-Israel border crossings and fence.
To pre-empt this assault, the Israeli air force plan to drop bombs overnight on Hamas and Jihad Islami installations across the Gaza Strip. The rocket which crashed through the roof of the Ashkelon mall Wednesday is believed by our sources to have carried a message from Tehran to visiting US president George W, Bush that Iran’s arm was long enough to reach an American presence anywhere.
Our military sources also disclose that the Grad rocket was in fact fired by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command headed by Ahmed Jibril. A team of this terrorist group reached the Gaza Strip in the last few days via Sinai after attending a special course in the precise targeting of rockets at an installation near Tehran. The team arrived already armed with the Grad manufactured in Iran which hit the Ashkelon mall.
The Ashkelon rocket also carried a warning to prime minister Ehud Olmert that the truce plan Egypt presented to Israel was a take-it-or-leave it ultimatum and not open to negotiation.
176 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:21:22pm
177 lawhawk  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:22:09pm

Hizbullah's spying capabilities are twofold - not only do they get to spy on all Lebanese, but it enables them to thwart Israeli counterintel ops - potentially picking up on Israeli operations. It also makes it more difficult for the Israelis to eavesdrop on the Hizbullah thugs as they communicate in country.

Hizbullah won this round, and the Lebanese people lost - the Cedar Revolution lost (March 17). They didn't stand a chance because they didn't stand to fight for what they believed in. Hizbullah claimed that they would never fire on Lebanese citizens, and yet they did. For all the outrage, it meant little when the army refused to lift a finger to stop Hizbullah.

Where was the UN during all this? They were supposed to be helping the Lebanese disarm Hizbullah, but we've seen how well that worked out. The ceasefire between Israel and Hizbullah worked out smashingly. Israel didn't get back Goldwasser and Regev, didn't destroy Hizbullah's infrastructure sufficiently in Lebanon, and Hizbullah not only retained its capabilities, but managed to essentially undertake a mostly bloodless coup.

I also hold Olmert responsible for events here - since his failures to deal with Hizbullah with the full force of the IDF enabled Hizbullah to survive.

I also blame Siniora for the events as well - he might have had the best of intentions of trying to prevent a civil war, but if you don't fight for what you believe in when that belief is freedom and democracy and a pluralistic society, you're going to end up staring down the end of an Islamofascist gun in that part of the world.

178 Killian Bundy  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:22:38pm

Paul McCartney 'horrified' as his eco car is flown 7,000 miles from Japan

A source is reported to have said: "Paul was offered a Lexus as a gift and ordered the hybrid limo because it helps to reduce emissions.

"He'll be horrified after learning it was delivered by plane. Paul has always campaigned for green issues and he can’t understand why anyone would send an enormous car from Japan to Britain on a plane."

. . .

Paddy Gillett of the anti-aviation lobby group Plane Stupid, said: "For anyone to pretend that a private limousine is in any way eco-friendly is like pretending a private jet is. It's total greenwash."

/the horror, nevermind the carbon footprint of the tractor trailers and electricity when he tours

179 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:24:09pm
180 Alouette  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:24:38pm

re: #178 Killian Bundy

he can’t understand why anyone would send an enormous car from Japan to Britain on a plane

What are they supposed to do, drive it? Put it on a rowboat? A sail boat?

181 hermeneutics  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:24:51pm

re: #177 lawhawk

Lawhawk, you're far, far beyond me in your knowledge of the Mideast, so I'll ask this question hesitantly: What does this mean, long-term? Does this mean that Israel is cornered?

I guess I'm asking you to be a seer and give a few predictions.

182 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:25:59pm
183 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:26:10pm

re: #178 Killian Bundy

I went into Starbucks for a coffee, black, large. And looked at one of the CD's they sell. Starbucks has their own line of CDs. On the back of one was the proud claim.

This ablum recorded using 100% wind power.
184 MandyManners  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:26:34pm

re: #178 Killian Bundy

Paul McCartney 'horrified' as his eco car is flown 7,000 miles from Japan


/the horror, nevermind the carbon footprint of the tractor trailers and electricity when he tours

How did he think it was gonna' get to him? Boat? Train?

185 MandyManners  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:26:53pm

re: #180 Alouette

GMTA.

186 Render  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:27:38pm

re: #116 itellu3times

Both. Relatively speaking that is.

[Link: www.harrier.org.uk...]

NEVER
ENOUGH,
R

187 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:28:37pm
188 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:29:18pm

Ruh-roh.

seattletimes.nwsource.com...] target="_blank">

Lefty likes McCain.This election may disappoint. They usually do. Right now, though, in McCain and Barack Obama we have two renegades trying to nudge party gridlock from the outside in. Both seem to think facts matter. Both say they want to get to what works. And both are signaling it will require some journey toward the middle.

Obama may be the once-in-a-generation opportunity. But the good news is that no matter what happens in November, we're already far, far ahead of where we've been.

189 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:29:54pm

re: #188 jcm

Ruh-roh.

Linky broky

Linky broky

190 mikeinmd  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:30:45pm

re: #178 Killian Bundy

His 6-year marriage to Heather Mills, with whom he campaigned against seal culling, came to an end yesterday after their divorce was finalised in the High Court.

A source is reported to have said: "Paul was offered a Lexus as a gift and ordered the hybrid limo because it helps to reduce emissions. after we saw him driving around in a 1982 Nissan Sentra.

191 lawhawk  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:31:47pm

re: #181 hermeneutics

Lawhawk, you're far, far beyond me in your knowledge of the Mideast, so I'll ask this question hesitantly: What does this mean, long-term? Does this mean that Israel is cornered?

I guess I'm asking you to be a seer and give a few predictions.

Israel has been in this position before - and they were forced to invade Lebanon in Operation Grapes of Wrath. That operation was led by none other than Ariel Sharon, who was Prime Minster and suffered a massive stroke bringing Olmert to power.

Operation Grapes of Wrath was launched to deal with the PLO terror ops against Israel's northern border. Lebanon was torn asunder by the PLO, which created a civil war there.

Hizbullah is hellbent on repeating history. They are hoping to start a war with Israel at a time and place of their choosing. With Iran and Syria pulling their strings, look for it to happen in coordination with other events in the region.

I wouldn't say that Israel is cornered, but it does have limited resources and limited maneuvrability to deal with the current threats unless is hopes to seriously escalate against Hamas in Gaza - and by escalate, I mean render Hamas a figment of someone's idea of a bad dream. Israel has got to get past the notion that they can continue to withstand the thousands of rockets and mortars fired against it, along with all the casualties, damage to property, and actually fight the war that Hamas has launched against them. And fight to win.

That last bit is tough - Israel's leadership has been more than content to get a draw, which means that the terrorists win a propaganda victory even if there's only one terrorist left standing at the end of the day. Such is the nature of the propaganda war against Israel as well.

192 itellu3times  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:32:06pm

re: #186 Render

Gotta git them JSF's done.

193 slartybartfast  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:33:04pm

I couldn't pass up the opportunity to apply a fast food analogy to a previous post.
Navarrette: If You Don't Like Obama, You're a Racist.

Over the decades, black Americans have had plenty of opportunities to vote for white people for president. And they have done so. But this is the first time that white Americans have a chance to vote for an African-American with a shot at the presidency. And what are they doing?

If you don't eat the dog turd, you're against hot dog buns.

Over the decades, people have had plenty of opportunities to have beef on a hamburger bun at McDonalds. And they have done so. But this is the first time that people have had a chance to have a dog turd served in a hot dog bun. And what are they doing?

194 hermeneutics  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:36:59pm

re: #191 lawhawk

Thanks. In short, Israel has a way out ... but her leadership's will isn't as strong as it used to be. Right?

Perhaps Israelis have to perceive of themselves as cornered before they fight back, somewhat analogous to how Americans have to perceive themselves as threatened by Islamic terrorists before the War on Terror makes sense. This, then, would be the propaganda war to which you referred.

Whenever I get to this point, I pause. The thought that that mass opinion has to change doesn't give much comfort.

195 itellu3times  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:38:30pm

re: #191 lawhawk

Problem seems to be, Israel can't do it surgically, against hundreds of square miles of prepared territory, with the enemy hiding in civilian populations. And the UN doesn't care. Nor does Condi. Nor Bush. Nor Olmert? Whistling in the dark.

196 ggt  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:39:05pm

11 PEOPLE ON A ROPE

11 people were hanging on a rope under a helicopter, 10 men & 1 woman.

The rope was not strong enough to carry them all, so they decided that one had
to leave, because otherwise they were all going to fall. They were unable to
decide who would let go, until the woman gave a very touching speech.

She said that she would voluntarily let go of the rope, because, as a woman, she
was used to giving up everything for her husband and kids and for men in gen
eral, and was used to always making sacrifices with little in return. (too
true!)
As soon as she finished her speech, all the men started clapping......

See you-all upstairs.

197 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:42:19pm

re: #193 slartybartfast

That is the most over the line outrages slur against dog turds I've ever seen!
/

198 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:43:37pm
199 aaron  Wed, May 14, 2008 5:55:48pm

I'm sure Secretary of State Rice has everything under control and that the Lebanese Armed Forces will, at any moment, stand up to Hizballah and enforce the rule of law in Lebanon.

/you need a tag for this?

200 wanumba  Wed, May 14, 2008 6:08:35pm

How this makes the heart ache!

201 DaddyG  Wed, May 14, 2008 6:31:03pm

re: #187 savage_nation

Oh, they have a big windmill on top of the recording studio now? sheesh!

No... they just hooked up the Dixie Chicks and Barbara Streisand up to some hot air generators and asked them what they really thought.

202 gkong3  Wed, May 14, 2008 6:32:38pm

Hmm, I dunno.

I remember the old joke about one Israeli soldier being worth half a platoon of Arabs, and two Israeli soldiers snookering a whole platoon of 'em into disaster (cf the 6-Day War, no doubt).

It is true that it is a matter of political will, but as you know, there are some countries in the world where the mililtary acts rather independently of their nominal political masters. I don't want to say Turkey, since things are rapidly going from semi-OK to bad to worse over there, but Thailand does come to mind also (fine, things aren't fantastic over there either). Count me agnostic as to whether Israel's army acting in similar fashion would be bad or otherwise.

Part of the problem definitely is the fact that, unfortunately, most people are stupid. Or, perhaps (to be more charitable), just wilfully ignorant. Such people need to have their faces rubbed in reality before they wake-up. Othere truly believe that there is no black and white, only shades of grey. Perhaps, but there are really dark greys, and really light greys, and telling me there's no *real* difference between the two is not going to improve my opinion of you.

In Lebanon's case, about the only good things that have come out of there is their bread and their wood. And I got all the wood I need.

203 jcm  Wed, May 14, 2008 6:46:14pm

re: #202 gkong3

Hmm, I dunno.

I remember the old joke about one Israeli soldier being worth half a platoon of Arabs, and two Israeli soldiers snookering a whole platoon of 'em into disaster (cf the 6-Day War, no doubt).

It is true that it is a matter of political will, but as you know, there are some countries in the world where the mililtary acts rather independently of their nominal political masters. I don't want to say Turkey, since things are rapidly going from semi-OK to bad to worse over there, but Thailand does come to mind also (fine, things aren't fantastic over there either). Count me agnostic as to whether Israel's army acting in similar fashion would be bad or otherwise.

Part of the problem definitely is the fact that, unfortunately, most people are stupid. Or, perhaps (to be more charitable), just wilfully ignorant. Such people need to have their faces rubbed in reality before they wake-up. Othere truly believe that there is no black and white, only shades of grey. Perhaps, but there are really dark greys, and really light greys, and telling me there's no *real* difference between the two is not going to improve my opinion of you.

In Lebanon's case, about the only good things that have come out of there is their bread and their wood. And I got all the wood I need.

VDH has a whole book on the subject.
Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise to Western Power

204 rorschach  Wed, May 14, 2008 8:28:22pm

Chamberlain, Halifax, Henderson, etc....British cowards that were ultimately responsible for the deaths of millions in WWII when a little courage would have saved the day.

Once again, spineless leaders of Western democracies inexplicably capitulate in the face of fascism.

205 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 14, 2008 8:28:56pm
206 marc in calgary  Wed, May 14, 2008 9:04:01pm

Q. did the islamists invent stupidity?

207 Tigger2005  Wed, May 14, 2008 11:08:09pm

re: #127 Daddyg

That would be 2nd Peter - however Thessalonians chapter 5 seems to leave a caveat out there for those paying attention...

Nope, the atheist is right. Matthew 25:13.

208 valentine81  Thu, May 15, 2008 3:10:00am

i'm disappointed the govt capitulated, but you can't call this a victory for hezbollah.

this whole affair is far from over... and with hezbo hemorrhaging allies, its looking more and more like them vs. everyone else.

and those on the "everyone else" side really, really hate hezbollah.

209 Charles  Thu, May 15, 2008 2:27:32pm

re: #208 valentine81

i'm disappointed the govt capitulated, but you can't call this a victory for hezbollah.

this whole affair is far from over... and with hezbo hemorrhaging allies, its looking more and more like them vs. everyone else.

and those on the "everyone else" side really, really hate hezbollah.

Thanks for the different perspective -- we'll have to see how this plays out, but I have to admit I'm pretty skeptical that Hizballah is really losing allies.


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