Leni Riefenstahl lives again. Propaganda, Charles. . . . . tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.

Well, according to obama he sat in the pews for over 20 years listening to rev, wrong spew things that he does not agree with so I guess it is possible.
/////////////////////////////////////////////

Well, it's not as bad as Faux News, right?

/

Why do I get the feeling that Europe is in the calm before the storm? It will be interesting to see what happens to Europe in the next twenty years. Europe will not go as easily as many think.

I don't hear a rejection of the rampant anti-Semitism from the "majority" of Muslims. Even if the "majority" doesn't agree with this hate, for the sake of argument, their silence seems like acceptance. Silence can be just as dangerous as acceptance.

They love the Jews and infidels. All that crazy talk in TV, nobody really believes it! It's just the crazy guys with turbans... and the crazy teenagers.... and the crazy kids who strap bombs on their bodies and rant about infidels.... and those crazy guys who burn flags and spaz out in public.....

But most Muslims don't believe in all this. It's just the vocal minority. Nothing to worry about folks, just move along, just 'talk and negotiate' with crazy people and all will be well.

OT Ted Kennedy - Stroke?!

Just reported by CNN

"Though most Muslims reject Islamism and its propaganda..."

This obviously depends on what the meaning of "most" is.

Cartoons depict scenes like that of a child blowing himself up near Israeli soldiers, or of a smiling boy flying toward Israel on a missile.

Move along people, nothing to see here.

Sen. Ted Kennedy is rushed to a hospital in Cape Cod, Massachusetts, a Democratic source tells CNN.

Prayers for Ted and his family.

Is that Mohammed Mouse in the article's picture?

re: #4 LoFlyer

Why do I get the feeling that Europe is in the calm before the storm? It will be interesting to see what happens to Europe in the next twenty years. Europe will not go as easily as many think.

I think you're wrong about that, though for some time I thought as you did. These days, I think the USA is smack dab in the middle of the calm and WE are the ones that should be expecting the storm - some of it coming from Europe. If you noticed what the Saudi Foreign Minister said yesterday and the Egyptian today, you will have noticed that the dollar is under attack and the price of oil is being kept deliberately high - blackmail to force us to throw Israel under the bus.

Other Muslim rappers portray themselves as representatives of a "Jihad Generation" and pepper their "intifada rap" with anti-Semitism of the worst kind. "Zyklon Beatz," a Berlin rap group, released a CD in 2006 with lyrics describing Jews as animals and demonizing them as devils in human form. Rapper Bushido, who won the prestigious ECHO Music Award in February 2008 and was broadcast live on RTL as Germany's best hip hop artist, stylizes himself as a Muslim assassin: "I am a Taliban ... I am this terrorist young people believe in ... I am King Bushido, and my second name is Mohammed. And I have set your city on fire."

"W" is a rapper?

Same as in the rest of Europe, and in the USA, the MSM are not interested in Islam, jihad, or anything related to it.
The citizens who do express their concern are brushed off.

Germany has, on top of that, the recent history, so that any muslim there feels free to call any German a Nazi, should they dare to protest.
And thus the MSM soul-search and navel-gaze, because nobody in Germany wants to be called a Nazi - its worse than being called a racist.

Thats the situation - and SPIEGELOnline has been getting awfully cosy with the other MSM in the last few years.
There is only one writer who speaks his mind, that his Henryk Broder - and he gets vilified every time.

Worse than anything is the creeping anti-semitism which is overrunning the SPIEGELOnline Forum - any thread there dealing with Israel is overrun by muslims and their left friends.
While they are vocal - the rest of the citizens are quietly despairing. Even the politicians from the conservative parties, who dare speak out, are immediately labbeled 'Nazis'. I bet Matthias Kuentzel, who wrote this essay, is receiving hate mail as we speak ...

so this is like rubbernecking at an accident, or watching porn so you can talk about how crude it is. Wonder who the 'most Muslims' are that they site. They certainly don't find them in Europe.

re: #4 LoFlyer

Why do I get the feeling that Europe is in the calm before the storm? It will be interesting to see what happens to Europe in the next twenty years. Europe will not go as easily as many think.

By the numbers, they are in a bad spot.

The pensioners will not/ can not resist

The leftest will heap hate on anyone who thinks they should resist.

The Nazi's and ethnic nationalist will confuse things and validate the left's hatred of those who would resist.

It looks bad.

re: #8 jamgarr

OT Ted Kennedy - Stroke?!

Just reported by CNN

Wow! I would say something boorish, hateful and sick about his illness like the DU or DailyKos does after Cheney has a heart-attack but I hold no ill-will against TK's health. I just want him out of office!

re: #6 insanity police

I don't hear a rejection of the rampant anti-Semitism from the "majority" of Muslims. Even if the "majority" doesn't agree with this hate, for the sake of argument, their silence seems like acceptance. Silence can be just as dangerous as acceptance.

You won't hear any rejection from 'moderate' muslims for the simple reason that their holy book is full of anti-semitism. If they want to follow Mo, as they have to, since he's the 'perfect man', they have to be anti-semites.
No defense possible ...

Hopefully Senator Kennedy is OK. Any time that we see him screaming and slobbering on the Senate floor, we know that a "conservative" Republican has proposed a really good idea.

Lizards,

Let's keep a respectful tone re: Ted.

Let's not go Huffpo and Kos.

We are better than that.

This logic sounds like Obama: he just wants to meet with the heads of Iran, Cuba, and North Korea just so he can reject them and their ideology...

re: #11 jcm

Sen. Ted Kennedy is rushed to a hospital in Cape Cod, Massachusetts, a Democratic source tells CNN.

Prayers for Ted and his family.

No doubt the HuffPost will open a thread where they can all crack jokes.

Oh wait, he's a liberal.

Considering the source its a wonder they even reported it...

OT ... Ted Kennedy was removed from his compound and taken to a hospital this morning. No news on why from CNN, speculation that it may be a stroke considering his age.

re: #17 Syrah

By the numbers, they are in a bad spot.

The pensioners will not/ can not resist

The leftest will heap hate on anyone who thinks they should resist.

The Nazi's and ethnic nationalist will confuse things and validate the left's hatred of those who would resist.

It looks bad.

The Europeans may have instilled the value of passivity to its citizens, but after the first million infidels are slaughtered, I suspect they will react violently. Self-preservation still lives in even the most liberal moonbat. The question is will they just move out of the path of the looming train wreck, or will they actively fight and defeat radical, fundamental Islam?

How can one hate Ted Kennedy? He's just a politician. A bad one. But hating him and wishing him more ill will? That's for the KosKids and Hufffpo kooks.

Gluten Morgen!

Verzein Sie, Herr Chavez, unser Kanzler soll nie auf Sie verschprochen.

(Excuse, Mr Chavez, Our Chancellor should have never spoken ill about you)

Verzien Sie, Muslime Brudern, wir sind nicht genug verstehenvoll mit Sie alles.

(Excuse, muslim brethren, we are not understanding enough with all of you)

I'm learning New German, you see?

The German I knew before was:
WAS? DU SCHWEIN?

(What, you PIG?)

lol

I guess we Latin Americans are picking up the tab and calling Chavez a PIG. IOW, telling the truth.
Chavez ist ein SCHWEINHUND!
LOL

As opposed to Muslim extremist, is it not more accurate to call them Muslim fundamentalist?

peaceful-passive-apathy

That's being a progressive.

'Wipe out the Jews'
Anti-Semitic Hate Speech in the Name of Islam
By Matthias Kuntzel

Part 1: Anti-Semitic Hate Speech in the Name of Islam

'Though most Muslims reject Islamism and its propaganda ....'

Part 2: Building Street Cred for the Islamist Movement

'Most Muslims reject Islamism and its propaganda.'

. The first line on each page is a ritual incantation to ward off decapitation.

I, too, believe europe is lost. They spend more time hating America than they do watching their own backs. Car-B-Q, anyone? (h/t to someone.)

Prayers and comfort to the Kennedy family.

Oops. Jumping to the Ted Kennedy thread...

Der Spiegel is just the main weekly publication of mainstream german upper-middle class, so their content is as ugly as their target demographic. They are kinda torn between appeasing Islam on the one hand and riding the cultural war hype wave on the other. They know there's something rotten inside the state of Denmark Egypt (their own special issue on islam in germany from last month got banned in egypt for "insulting mohammed") but they just won't commit to it. Germany likes to pay lip-service to the joos but twiddle their thumbs while making lotsa €€€ of the second largest exporter to Iran In the end, the stories they publicize will just be ambigue enough to keep the advertising sponsors onboard. Firm stances just don't pay.

re: #13 galloping granny

I think you're wrong about that, though for some time I thought as you did. These days, I think the USA is smack dab in the middle of the calm and WE are the ones that should be expecting the storm - some of it coming from Europe. If you noticed what the Saudi Foreign Minister said yesterday and the Egyptian today, you will have noticed that the dollar is under attack and the price of oil is being kept deliberately high - blackmail to force us to throw Israel under the bus.

Agree with you here.
While its always interesting to look at how the more protestant nations in Europe fare in regard to Islamism, please do not forget that these nations do ahve a long, liberal tradition which makes it as difficult for them to understand and get to grips with Islamism as it is for a lot of well-meaning people in the USA.
And plese do also not forget that tehre are quite a number of mostly Roman-Catholic countries - who have taken a more robust stance against Islam. And the Greek know precisely what is involved in the fight against Islam, they have not forgotten the slaughter of their countrymen in Turkey in 1922.
So - don't assume Europe will succumb with a whimper!

re: #6 insanity police

I don't hear a rejection of the rampant anti-Semitism from the "majority" of Muslims. Even if the "majority" doesn't agree with this hate, for the sake of argument, their silence seems like acceptance. Silence can be just as dangerous as acceptance.

I agree Silence is Duplicity.

But you know ... most Muslims reject it, according to Der Spiegel. They’re only watching the omnipresent hate propaganda so they can reject it, really.

I watched Keith Olberman for the first time Thursday evening to see how he responded to the Knesset speech. My sensibilities (mainly logic and restraint) are so much more part and parcel of my character then what I observed in that blatantly partisan hack, that I felt compelled to change the channel after only two or three minutes. I was actually becoming physically ill. I would expect the same from any and all Muslims that "reject" Jihadist propaganda. If there were such a majority or preponderance of civilized Muslims, the agit-prop channels wouldn't survive commercially.

Unless of course, they are not merely commercial enterprises and receive enough funding from Whahabi and general Salafists types in the Gulf to survive without commercial revenue.

re: #30 Tumulus11

. The first line on each page is a ritual incantation to ward off decapitation.

Like back in the civil rights 60's "some of my best friends are negros"

re: #25 LoFlyer

The Europeans may have instilled the value of passivity to its citizens, but after the first million infidels are slaughtered, I suspect they will react violently. Self-preservation still lives in even the most liberal moonbat. The question is will they just move out of the path of the looming train wreck, or will they actively fight and defeat radical, fundamental Islam?

Europeans? You've got to be kidding me. They surely did not react violently en masse when Hitler slaughtered millions. Lots of them lent him a hand.

re: #28 filetandrelease

As opposed to Muslim extremist, is it not more accurate to call them Muslim fundamentalist?

Nah, just moslems. Moderates are called unicorns.

re: #25 LoFlyer

The Europeans may have instilled the value of passivity to its citizens, but after the first million infidels are slaughtered, I suspect they will react violently. Self-preservation still lives in even the most liberal moonbat. The question is will they just move out of the path of the looming train wreck, or will they actively fight and defeat radical, fundamental Islam?

Having read Steyn, Bawer and Ye'or, hubby and I have come to the same conclusion.
Infantalizing people by making up the artificial construct of "adolescence" then expanding it to the point where it is not unusual for a man of 39 to still be living with mommy, has created a babyish population.
And just like babies, they might not notice the first million murder victims.
They are oblivious unless harn hits them on their own head.
But that point will be reached eventually.
And, again, just like babies who have an on and an off switch but no middle ground, they will have their tantrum....it'll be horrific.

But you know ... most Muslims reject it, according to Der Spiegel.

Humanity runs deep in people. It's, like, in the genes. And for that reason, even while the Germans, as a system and a nation, were engaged in the atrocity of the Holocaust, a large fraction of them were queasy about it.

It is a mistake, not on a tactical level but at the deeper level of misunderstanding reality, to demonize Muslims. Being human, they mostly veer off from making themselves into demons. The trouble is that those TV stations and their Imams are doing their level best to win as many converts to the dark side as they can get, and even if it isn't a majority, and even if it isn't close, it's a problem.

It's a problem for Islam too. Imagine if Reverend Jim Jones-types ran the Sunday morning megachurch broadcasts.

A vehement and determined 10 percent can steer a nation into endless trouble, crime and grief.

re: #17 Syrah

By the numbers, they are in a bad spot.

The pensioners will not/ can not resist

There was an interesting idea put forth a while back. To solve some of Europe's demographic problems (it seems that no one wants children at all) it was suggested that Spain and Portugal start getting guest workers in from Mexico, Central and South America. They share languages and cultures, and that would stop the tide of Islam in those nations at least.

As for the rest of pre-Islamic Western Europe....see it now, before it's too late.

A few comments to the article:
1. Matthias Küntzel is one of the good guys give him the benefit of the doubt. Check out his work. He is one of the few who demand action on Iran. He is not the typical Spiegel-writer.
2. The very fact that the Spiegel is allowing any criticism of Islam is rare and extraordinary.
3. The assertion that not all Muslims are Islamists seems to be true. Otherwise the surge in Iraq couldn't be successfull.
4. The fact that most Muslims are not Islamists is logically not incompatible with the fact that they are anti-Semites.
5. The fact that most Muslims are not buying into the propaganda of Islamism does not mean that the are fighting it the way any decent person should. They might not buy the propaganda but they allow it to be spread.
=> I find the quoted statement to be valid.
6. Even if 3-5 are not true it is simply impossible to have any discourse in Europe if this basis is not accepted. You would be outside of any consensus.

Kinda off-topic but kinda not:

Neonazis celebrating Israel on the grounds of völkisch ideology:
[Link: www.tagesspiegel.de...]
[Link: www.adf-berlin.de...]

This is the kind of ideological ambiguity running strong within the German political discourse. And which makes it hard to tell whether this is a fake, a joke or just the newest fad of Germany's radical right copying various elements of Germany's radical left (in this case, the Antideutsche movement). Something similiar is happening to the British National Party. As conservative parties fail to adress the problem of islam's support of violence and also fail to see the connection with vile muslim jew-hatred and israel-hatred as well as immigration issues, the far-right tries to sack some of the traditional conservative voters by adressing these issues. It's a weird development and a sad revelation of the intellectual poverty of Europe's conservatives that the neo-nazis are actually able to pull this off.

Most Muslims reject it? Then why does every poll or survey of the muslim population have a majority supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, al Queda, etc...?

If those surveys are not accurate then I wish they would publish the ones that are so I can move on.

I really wish Der Spiegel had a comments section.

Though most Muslims reject Islamism and its propaganda, ...

It would be interesting if Der Speigel published an article listing examples of the majority of Muslims rejecting Islamism.

Should be a very short article.

re: #47 angst

I really wish Der Spiegel had a comments section.

It has. Its called 'Forum'.
There is one for English speakers, which is pretty dire.
The one where you need to know German is huge, but one has to register and gets moderated for a while. Moderation is dead slow voer the weekend, so you never get to see what you wrote, don't know if its gone through moderation, and haen't a clue if anybody has answered ...

But still - worth a look ...

re: #48 socratease

It would be interesting if Der Speigel published an article listing examples of the majority of Muslims rejecting Islamism.

Should be a very short article.

Yeah well - if you ask questions like that in Germany, you're a Nazi ... which isn't good if you want to sell newsmagazines ...

re: #49 yma o hyd

It has. Its called 'Forum'.
There is one for English speakers, which is pretty dire.
The one where you need to know German is huge, but one has to register and gets moderated for a while. Moderation is dead slow voer the weekend, so you never get to see what you wrote, don't know if its gone through moderation, and haen't a clue if anybody has answered ...

But still - worth a look ...

Thank you. I do like reading the comments from people in other parts of the world. I know they're not exactly a representative sampling of the population but it's very interesting to me, as I don't travel out of the US very often.

re: #42 lostlakehiker

Humanity runs deep in people. It's, like, in the genes. And for that reason, even while the Germans, as a system and a nation, were engaged in the atrocity of the Holocaust, a large fraction of them were queasy about it.

If Germans were in fact queasy about the Holocaust, it's only because Germany was a country steeped in Christian morality. Islam teaches a different morality: whatever benefits the Muslims is good, whatever opposes or doesn't benefit them is evil. Islam places no moral restrictions whatsoever on the treatment of unbelievers. If Muslims are treating unbelievers well, it's only because they agreed to or because the unbelievers are stronger than them. Such agreements can be broken at any time the Muslims believe doing so would be to their advantage. Muslims tend to be narcissistic and self-absorbed to an almost impossible degree, because Islam teaches they are the best of people and the rightful rulers of the world. Why do you make the mistake of thinking a large fraction of Muslims are queasy about killing infidels and conquering the world?

Why does a segment of Europe refuse to notice the raging anti-semitism in the Muslim world? Why do they seem so blind concerning what is going on, the judenhass that is disseminated freely throughout the Muslim world?

Here are two possible explanations:
(1) They cannot see it, because they share the same sentiments. They don't see anything unusual or peculiar about it, because it is not significantly different from what they believe.

(2) They refuse to acknowledge what they see because that would imply that they should do something about it -- at least in words, if not in deeds -- and they are too lazy and/or too cowardly to respond in a proper way to it. So they pretend not to see. Just move on and pretend that nothing is happening.

re: #53 EE

Just one thing to say: please do not make the mistake and assume that what is reported in the European MSM is exctly how the Europeans (who, btw, do have quite a lot of different cultures and languages and religions) think about Islam and/or the antisemitism practised by muslims.

You know what it is like here in the USA in regard to the MSM and the opinions of real people - the situation is the same in Europe.

The author of the article, the historian Matthias Kuntzel is the author of the book Jihad and Jew-Hatred: Islamism, Nazism and the Roots of 9/11.

Kuntzel is on the board of Scholars for Peace in the Middle East.

Here is an article that SPME provided on-line, written by Caroline Glick, [Link: www.spme.net...]

When the union of British academics sought to boycott Israelis, SPME had an on-line petition protesting this.

A recent SPME on-line petition calls on Iran to release 3 Iranian-Americans who have been unjustly imprisoned by Iran.

re: #57 ploome hineni

can you post a link?

Here is the link to the German 'SPIEGELOnline' -Forum:
[Link: forum.spiegel.de...]

This is the link to the whole English (Internatinal) SPIEGELOnline:
[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

And this is the link to the 'International Forum', SPIEGELOnline, which is in English:
[Link: forum-international.spiegel.de...]

From Caroline Glick's article that SPME posted on-line (see the link in #58)

TELLING FRIEND FROM FOE
By Caroline Glick
Published in: Jerusalem Post, 2.12.07 February 12, 2007

[SPME Faculty Forum Editor's Note. Professor Rosenfeld is an SPME member and Professor Ilan Benjamin is co-coordinator of the SPME UCSC Chapter.]

One of the most difficult things in life is to draw the line between
friend and foe. Take the Palestinian terror groups.

Last week in Mecca, the Fatah terror group, which mixes the murder of
Israelis with negotiations with Israelis, officially joined forces with
the Hamas terror group, which murders Israelis while refusing to
negotiate with us.

Although the agreement makes it clear that both are at war with Israel,
on Sunday the Olmert government decided to reserve judgment on the
terror unity deal. And Monday morning Vice Premier Shimon Peres warned
that saying bad things about the Mecca deal would only weaken Fatah
terror boss Mahmoud Abbas, whom we should strengthen because he likes
to negotiate while killing.

Given how hard it is for Israel to identify its Arab foes, it is little
wonder that identifying Jewish foes is a near-Herculean task.

Last month the American Jewish Committee took an important first step
in this direction by publishing a paper by Prof. Alvin Rosenfeld from
the University of Indiana entitled, "'Progressive' Jewish Thought and
the New Anti-Semitism." Explaining the difference between criticism of
Israel and demonization of the Jewish state, Rosenfeld wrote, "To call
Israel a Nazi state... as is commonly done today, or to accuse it of
fostering South African-style apartheid or engaging in ethnic cleansing
or wholesale genocide goes well beyond legitimate criticism." Rosenfeld
noted that these descriptors of Israel, which aim to single out Israel
"as a political entity unworthy of secure and sovereign existence" are
today "part of a standard discourse among 'progressive' American Jews,
who seem to take for granted that the historical record shows Israel to
be an aggressor state guilty of sins comparable to Hendrik Verwoerd's
South Africa and Hitler's Germany."

HAVING described the phenomenon, Rosenfeld proceeded to identify
prominent American Jews, including New York University Prof. Tony Judt,
playwright Tony Kushner, Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, Noam
Chomsky, and Adrienne Rich as leading Jewish lights in the leftist
assault on the Jewish people's right to self-determination in our
homeland.

Rosenfeld's paper evoked strong reactions in the American Jewish
community. A New York Times write-up of the controversy entitled,
"Essay Linking Liberal Jews and Anti-Semitism Sparks a Furor,"
described how the same "progressive" Jews and their supporters are up
in arms over being painted as anti-Semites. Judt opined that the point
of the article was to silence them.

This of course, is pure nonsense. All the Jews in America couldn't
silence Judt and his colleagues even if they wished to. As anti-Israel
Jews, they will never lack prestigious forums from which to propagate
their hatred for Israel.

Far from seeking to silence these hostile Jewish voices, Rosenfeld's
essay simply serves to draw lines between friend and foe where such
lines are important. The views of Kushner, Judt and Cohen are no less
anti-Jewish than similar statements by non-Jews.

If you search Farfur on YouTube you can see clips of the show with subtitles.

re: #58 EE

The author of the article, the historian Matthias Kuntzel is the author of the book Jihad and Jew-Hatred: Islamism, Nazism and the Roots of 9/11.

Kuntzel is on the board of Scholars for Peace in the Middle East.

Here is an article that SPME provided on-line, written by Caroline Glick, [Link: www.spme.net...]

When the union of British academics sought to boycott Israelis, SPME had an on-line petition protesting this.

A recent SPME on-line petition calls on Iran to release 3 Iranian-Americans who have been unjustly imprisoned by Iran.

Yes, I realized I didn't make it clear that what I was criticizing was the Spiegel subheading -- added some text above to clarify that point.

Funny how "Zyklon Beatz" is supposed to be an antisemitic play on words on "Zyklon B" the gas that was used to exterminate millions of Jews and other 'undesirables' in the Final Solution conducted in those Nazi Concentration camps that Herr Amamadjihadi denies ever existed.

HAVING described the phenomenon, Rosenfeld proceeded to identify
prominent American Jews, including New York University Prof. Tony Judt,
playwright Tony Kushner, Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, Noam
Chomsky, and Adrienne Rich as leading Jewish lights in the leftist
assault on the Jewish people's right to self-determination in our
homeland.
Funny 2:
Rosenfeld's paper evoked strong reactions in the American Jewish
community. A New York Times write-up of the controversy entitled,
"Essay Linking Liberal Jews and Anti-Semitism Sparks a Furor,"
described how the same "progressive" Jews and their supporters are up in arms over being painted as anti-Semites. Judt opined that the point of the article was to silence them.

and compare that to the dems' and Obamanation's reaction to Pres Bush's speech to the Knesset. At least with Rosenfeld's paper, he named the names and hit the dogs who needed to be spotted. But Pres Bush went Rosenfeld one better, he hit a gaggle of dem appeasers, who squawked and complained and whined, all without Pres Bush's having named a single person in his speech. Talk about guilty consciences in both the Jewish and Dem communities (or am I being redundant again?).

At least the article included the information that Muslim hatred of Jews preceded the creation of the state of Israel. People the world over need to be reminded of this fact, especially in the light of Bin Laden's latest message and the continuing messages of destruction from Hamas. People also need to be reminded that if the Muslims do succeed in destroying Israel, the Christian nations are next in line.

The sad thing is, this is Europe in a nutshell - We sit around allowing this shit to happen in the name of tolerance, and then SOME of us start talking against it, only to be told that we're not being culturally sensitive and that we need to look at the "root cause", blah blah blah, and then it's on to blame America for Muslims thinking that Jews drink blood.

Just another day.

How extreme are the views of Muslims?
According to this article by Robert Satloff, there has been some cooking of the books on this issue.
[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

"Gallup says only 7 percent of the world's Muslims are political radicals. Yet 36 percent think the 9/11 attacks were in some way justified."
When Satloff looks into the details of how the data have been summarized, it turns out that only the most extreme views in solid support of the 9/11 attacks were included in that 7 percent. But 36 percent said that the 9/11 attacks were in some way justified.

Writes Satloff:
"The cover-up is even worse. The full data from the 9/11 question show that, in addition to the 13.5 percent, there is another 23.1 percent of respondents -- 300 million Muslims -- who told pollsters the attacks were in some way justified. Esposito and Mogahed don't utter a word about the vast sea of intolerance in which the radicals operate."

"And then there is the more fundamental fraud of using the 9/11 question as the measure of 'who is a radical.' Amazing as it sounds, according to Esposito and Mogahed, the proper term for a Muslim who hates America, wants to impose Sharia law, supports suicide bombing, and opposes equal rights for women but does not 'completely' justify 9/11 is ... 'moderate.' "

"Could the smart people at Gallup really believe this? Regardless, they should immediately release all the data associated with their world poll and open all the files and archives of their Center for Muslim Studies to independent inspection. With a dose of transparency and a dollop of humility, the data just might teach something useful to the world's six billion citizens." -- Robert Satloff.

The issue of antisemitism gives rise to another classification.

Really? Most Muslims reject Islamism and its propaganda?

Then why is this stuff being broadcast on cable and satellite TV channels all over the world?

And this brings up another way to classify and count Muslims: Do they go along with the judenhass, the antisemitic hatred that is being disseminated throughout the Muslim world, including the broadcasts on cable and satellite TV channels all over the world? By this measure, the Muslim world may be a world of deep hate.

Did Gallup ask any questions related to judenhass? If so, then the percentages of Muslims with deep hatred may well be much much higher than can be concluded by asking some other questions.

Charles makes a good point here. If most Muslims reject Islamist propaganda, then how come there is so much antisemitic propaganda being broadcast?

A Pew poll asked in 2003 whether there is any way for an Israeli state and Palestinian rights to coexist.
[Link: people-press.org...]

From the article at the linked site:
"More broadly, the postwar survey asked people their views on the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians. By wide margins, most Muslim populations doubt that a way can be found for the state of Israel to exist so that the rights and needs of the Palestinian people are met. Eight-in-ten residents of the Palestinian Authority express this opinion. But Arabs in Israel, who voice the same criticisms of U.S. policy in the Middle East as do other Muslims, generally believe that a way can be found for the state of Israel to exist so that Palestinian rights and needs are addressed. In fact, Arabs in Israel are nearly as likely as Jews to hold that opinion (62% of Arabs, 68% of Jews)."

"Outside of the Muslim world, there is general agreement that there is a way to ensure Israel's existence and meet the needs of Palestinians. This view is widely shared in North America and Western Europe."

From the figure in the article: A Way for Israeli State and Palestinian Rights to Coexist?
"No" in predominantly Muslim countries: in Morocco, "No" by 90 to 5; in Jordan, by 85 to 14; in the Palestinian Authority, by 80 to 17; in Kuwait, by 72 to 23; in Lebanon, by 65 to 28; in Pakistan, by 57 to 23; in Indonesia, by 58 to 28; in Turkey, by 49 to 33.

"Most Muslims reject Islamism "

But than they would no longer be muslim, would they?

To help out Spiegel, I am forming a movement to change the masculine word for 'the' in German from 'der' to 'duh'. The whole language will make more sense. Duh Speigel!

Der Hitler? Hallo Herr Mustermann habe sie schoen gelesen im neue Hitler dass die locusts will be kommen zhu uns?

In early 2008, Der Spiegel has become the first mainstream media outlet to be taken over by the editors-in-chief of its once subordinate internet leg (Blumencron/Mascolo). From a media theory angle, Der Hitler Spiegel is a prototype model for the transformation of similiar old media whores.

Really? Most Muslims reject Islamism and its propaganda?

Read on:

Most Muslims reject Islamism and its propaganda. According to the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, Germany's domestic intelligence agency, only about one percent of Muslims living in Germany are members of Islamist organizations whose political objectives include anti-Semitism. But ...

So if you think of the lead medium of Germany as a sleeping person, think of the consensus of the spy community of that country as a blanket in which the sleeper is wrapped.

The German equivalent to the NIE fiasco comes under the name Ernst Uhrlau.

Of course, not all Muslims are hateful.

JUST THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY.

It's in the Koran: [Link: www.patrickhenrysongs.com...]

Martin Kramer has written an article entitled "The Salience of Islamic Antisemitism"
[Link: www.geocities.com...]

In the section entitled "How Widespread is Islamic Antisemitism", Kramer writes:

Let me quote a brief passage I read not long ago by the French scholar Olivier Roy, who has written an important book on political Islam and did his earlier work on its development in Afghanistan. He writes of what he calls the evolution of the Afghan's image of the Jew: "Before the war in Afghanistan, the Pakhtun tribes boasted of being descended from a lost tribe of Israel; during the war, many traditionalist mullahs could be heard extolling the virtues of the Torah (in opposition, of course, to the atheist communists), but today many Afghan neofundamentalists harp on the Zionist plot."

If in the highlands of Afghanistan, the Paktuns are having second thoughts about their descent, I think this speaks volumes about the extent of antisemitism in Muslim lands, and particularly its dissemination by Islamists. The existence of a Jewish conspiracy against Islam is integral to the Islamist ideology, not tangential. Everywhere that ideology is preached, everywhere it is embraced, the conspiracy of the Jews is included in the package, which is to say that we should hardly be surprised when it surfaces even in the most unlikely places in Asia and Africa.

But more importantly, it now exists in the West itself, among Muslim immigrants and visitors who arrive in ever greater numbers to Britain, France, the US, Argentina, and Australia -- precisely the centres of the Jewish Diaspora. Today virtually every trend in Islamic thought and activism is represented in the West, including the most militant forms of Islamism. The UK provides an interesting example. It is home to several organizations inspired by the Islamic Republic of Iran; to the Palestinian Hamas, which publishes its flagship magazine in London; and the Hizb al-Tahrir or "Liberation Party," clandestine in the Middle East but highly visible on British campuses. This is the kind of volatile mix one would be hard-pressed to find in any single Middle Eastern coutnry, and the mix of antisemitic materials disseminated by these groups is just as varied.

It is still very difficult to measure the significance of these groups and their materials. It may be impossible to predict how and when threats might become deeds. The work of analysis has to be done in every instance on the local level, by long-time watchers of the local Islamist scene. My point is that there is no place in the West without an Islamist scene, and no Islamist scene in the West that does not deserve close watching.

Another relevant article is one by Martin Kramer entitled "The Jihad Against the Jews"
[Link: www.geocities.com...]

On July 18, 1994 a ferocious bomb explosion ripped through the seven-story building at 633 Pasteur Street, in the traditionally Jewish quarter of Buenos Aires. The building completely collapesed, and final death count reached 85 persons. It was Argentina's worst terrorist attack.

...
...

The choice of a Jewish target was no mistake. It came as the culmination of a shift in the thinking of many Muslim fundamentalists. Today they are in thrall to the idea that Jews everywhere, in league with Israel, are behind a sinister plot to destroy Islam. The battleground is anywhere Jews are organized to assist and aid in this plot.

This is a new concept even for Islamic fundamentalism, and it represents an especially virulent form of anti-Semitism, one so widespread and potentially violent that it could eclipse all other forms of anti-Semitism over the next decade.

Islamic antisemitism has drawn from the extreme left and the extreme right in Europe, and added its own stuff to this poisonous mix. The main themes seem to be the Jew as all-powerful, the Jew as the source of all that is evil, the Jews as a conspiracy to dominate the Muslim world, and the entire world, and the Jews as a conspiracy to destroy Islam. This craziness seems ridiculous, but so did the craziness of Hitler and the Nazis seem ridiculous.

Really? Most Muslims reject Islamism and its propaganda?

Then why is this stuff being broadcast on cable and satellite TV channels all over the world?

Charles' observation concerning what is going on is very important.

test