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Seattle Times Editor Edits 'Hitler Not Unreasonable' Post

Sun, May 18, 2008 at 2:39:11 pm PDT

Seattle Times editorial writer Bruce Ramsey, the mind behind that ludicrous “blog” piece saying, “Hitler’s demands were not unreasonable,” has been doing a little on-the-sly editing: Bush, and His Use of ‘Appeasement’ | Seattle Times Newspaper Blog.

Ramsey got smacked around pretty badly in the comments for his piece, and rarely have I seen someone deserve it more. We saved his original first three paragraphs: Seattle Times Editor: ‘Hitler’s Demands Were Not Unreasonable’.

Democrats are rebuking President Bush for saying in his speech to the Knesset, here, that to “negotiate with terrorists and radicals” is “appeasement.” The Democrats took it as a slap at Barack Obama. What bothers me is the continual reference to Hitler and his National Socialists, particularly the British and French accommodation at the Munich Conference of 1938.

What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable. He wanted the German-speaking areas of Europe under German authority. He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed. There were two more small pieces of Germanic territory: the free city of Danzig and the Sudetenland, a border area of what is now the Czech Republic.

We live in an era when you do not change national borders for these sorts of reasons. But in 1938 it was different. Germany’s eastern and western borders had been redrawn 19 years before—and not to its benefit. In the democracies there was some sense of guilt with how Germany had been treated after World War I. Certainly there was a memory of the “Great War.” In 2008, we have entirely forgotten World War I, and how utterly unlike any conception of “The Good War” it was. When the British let Hitler have a slice of Czechoslovakia, they were following their historical wisdom: avoid war. War produces results far more horrible than you expected. War is a bad investment. It is not glorious. Don’t give anyone an excuse to start one.

Here’s what it looks like now; guess what ended up in the bit bucket?

Democrats are rebuking President Bush for saying in his speech to the Knesset, here, that to “negotiate with terrorists and radicals” is “appeasement.” The Democrats took it as a slap at Barack Obama. What bothers me is the continual reference to Hitler and his National Socialists, particularly the British and French accommodation at the Munich Conference of 1938.

The narrative we’re given about Munich is entirely in hindsight. We know what kind of man Hitler was, and that he started World War II in Europe. But in 1938 people knew a lot less. What Hitler was demanding at Munich was not unreasonable as a national claim (though he was making it in a last-minute, unreasonable way.) Germany’s claim was that the areas of Europe that spoke German and thought of themselves as German be under German authority. In September 1938 the principal remaining area was the Sudetenland.

So the British and French let him have it. Their thought was: “Now you have your Greater Germany.” They didn’t want a war. They were not superpowers like the United States is now. They remembered the 1914-1918 war and how they almost lost it.

In a few months, in early 1939, Hitler ordered the invasion of what is now the Czech Republic—that is, territory that was not German. Then it was obvious that a deal with him was worthless—and the British and French did not appease Hitler any more. Thus the lesson of Munich: don’t appease Hitlers.

Down the memory hole!

I’m afraid Ramsey may not be cut out for this blogging thing.

(Hat tip: Ace of Spades.)

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186 comments

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1 ethanxxx  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:41:24pm

Who gives a S**T about Seattle?

2 stevieray  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:41:35pm

I think the memory hole must be all filled up... what was once hidden, now spills out into the daylight.

3 blue_like_jazz  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:41:55pm

gotcha, you POS! no use hiding... the lizard king SEES ALL!

//bwahahahahaha

4 wolfie  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:42:04pm

Too late, Ramsey.

5 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:42:16pm

Good ol' revisionist history syndrome.

6 ironbill  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:42:58pm

Even after the edit, his account of the history leading up to WWII is woefully wrong

7 Sharmuta  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:43:36pm

I love the smell of back peddling in the afternoon.

8 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:44:23pm
9 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:44:26pm
10 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:44:41pm

I guess Ramsey wanted to be the one Bush was talking about..

You're an appeaser, Bruce. Is that what you want to hear?

11 loup-garou  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:44:49pm

i hope this gets noted in Winston Smith notebook.

12 Truck Monkey  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:45:04pm

And he was also very good in making the trains run on time.

/

13 zombie  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:45:12pm

First he gives his stamp of approval to Hitler's policies, now he gives his stamp of approval to Stalin's policies -- i.e disappearing unwanted facts down the "memory hole."

Is there any genocidal tyrant this guy doesn't like?

14 Slumbering Behemoth  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:45:31pm

re: #1 ethanxxx

Who gives a S**T about Seattle?

Americans.

15 solomonpanting  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:45:44pm

Well, now in hindsight we can see that appeasement was wrong. If "it was obvious that a deal with him [Hitler] was worthless", isn't the concept still obvious now? Isn't that the lesson Bush is conveying?

16 Sharmuta  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:45:46pm
Thus the lesson of Munich: don’t appease Hitlers.

Tell that to obama, pal.

17 stevieray  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:45:59pm

The sad part is, even with his revisions, the piece still doesn't support his intended position -- that appeasement ain't bad and it deserves another chance.

18 MandyManners  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:46:05pm
19 ted  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:46:59pm

Ha-ha-ha....

20 ironbill  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:47:04pm

Ramsey, you're a moron. Churchill was screaming about the menace Hitler was in the early 30s'.

We knew and were fully aware what his intentions were.

Funny thing about the Lefties back in the 30s'. They thought Ribbentrop/Molotov was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Hitler was o.k. till he turned on ole' Joe.

21 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:47:31pm
22 shibumi  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:47:33pm
What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable. He wanted the German-speaking areas of Europe under German authority.

So...does that mean that BushHitler can annex Great Britain, Australia and any other nation in the West that speaks English? If so, I call a Caribbean Island, one of the nice ones.

As for Ramsey, someone should tell him you edit before you publish something not after.

23 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:48:07pm

Anytime you use the word "But" after acknowledging Hitler was a bad guy, you're an appeaser..

Congrats, Bruce... You didn't even take "but" out of your "edited" piece.

24 Mich-again  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:49:26pm

Take away his blog and give him an Etch a Sketch.

25 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:49:34pm

By the way Ramsey, Hitler annexed Austria after killing Dolfus.

Go back and revise some more.

26 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:49:41pm

re: #20 ironbill

Quit trying to shatter Brucie's paradigm. As long as he portrays Hitler as someone whose intentions the world did not know, the longer he can replicate that paradigm with the likes of Madmandinejad.

27 pegcity  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:49:41pm

i can't even bother to read anything from the left anymore, the arguments made would past muster with a 6 year old

28 wolfie  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:50:02pm

Okay, Ramsey.
You can cut the Neville Chamberlains a little slack by saying they didn't realize Hitler's demands were insatiable. Fine.
What has that got to do with the demands of the Palis? We have a record of Palistinian behavior going back many decades to prove they will not be satisfied until Israel is destroyed. They themselves shout it from the rooftops.
So the upshot is that those who want to appease Hamas are even stupider and more deluded than the Munich boys.
So how does this help Ramsey's side?!

29 DesertSage  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:50:40pm

So...all we have to do is give the Palestinians the Sudetenland and there will be peace in our time?

Is that what he's trying to say?

30 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:51:49pm

re: #25 Ojoe

"Dollfuss" is the correct spelling

PIMF

31 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:52:24pm
32 Sharmuta  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:52:26pm
In order to get anywhere, each side has to listen to the other. To continually bring up Hitler, the Nazis, the Munich Conference and “appeasement,” is to try to prolong the stalemate.

So- we shouldn't appease hitlers unless there is a prolonged stalemate?

/Tosses Munich lesson out window.

Basically- we can't call anyone "hitler" anymore- is that his point? Great- can we start with the left not calling President Bush "hitler" anymore? That would be great.

33 wolfie  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:52:55pm

re: #29 DesertSage

So...all we have to do is give the Palestinians the Sudetenland and there will be peace in our time?

Is that what he's trying to say?

That's what it sounds like to me!

34 ironbill  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:53:59pm

re: #26 natemannq

I see your point.

Ackma-dinner-jacket never said he would "wipe Israel off the face of the earth."

The Lefty motto should be: If a tree falls in the woods, I can't hear a sixteen year old girl being hung in a public square for being the victim of a rape.

35 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:54:07pm

re: #31 song_and_dance_man

But he probably does not think he is wrong in his main point at all.

36 MandyManners  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:55:17pm

Good thinking on keeping that entry, Charles. You musta' known he'd change it.

37 Abu Boo Boo  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:55:35pm

The whole "we should negotiate" argument is blown apart by the Stalin-Hitler pact.

The Soviets did talk to Hitler. They did negotiate with him. They did reach a "non-aggression" pact.

And then Hitler unleashed a savage attack on the USSR.

The only people fooled by the Stalin-Hitler pact were the Russians.

BTW, the Soviets also helped Hitler come to power by instructing German communists not to form a united front with social democrats against Hitler and the Nazis.

Ramsey is simply ignorant of history.

38 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:55:39pm

re: #34 ironbill

Or a teenage boy whipped to death for being caught eating during the day during ramadan:

I cannot forget this

39 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:56:36pm
40 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:56:41pm

*Spit*

41 Render  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:57:25pm

Like MSNBC, he never did let my comment out of "moderation."

THE
WORLD
WONDERS,
R

42 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:57:27pm

re: #34 ironbill


What's scary is Brucie's relationship with his own father.. Brucie's father had the opportunity to communicate FIRSTHAND the atrocities hitler committed (I'm assuming Brucie's father was alive then)...

...but he didn't...

Isn't it all clear now? Brucie didn't have a good relationship with his father...

43 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:57:59pm

Brucie doesn't feel loved.

44 MandyManners  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:58:38pm

re: #41 Render

Like MSNBC, he never did let my comment out of "moderation."

THE
WORLD
WONDERS,
R

What did you write?

45 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:58:55pm

re: #38 Ojoe

What happens if you eat Raman noodles on Ramadan?

46 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:59:10pm

Revisionist history should be closer to a jailable offense over cartoons. However, he still lives in a country where he is free to be an idiot.

47 jaunte  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:59:23pm

re: #32 Sharmuta

I don't think Bruce Ramsey is listening to much of what the other side has been saying. I'd advise him to do them the respect of taking them seriously, and stop pretending their rhetoric is 'mere' rhetoric.

48 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:59:26pm

re: #36 MandyManners

Good thinking on keeping that entry, Charles. You musta' known he'd change it.

/it was part of an LGF post on Friday, not particularly hard to find

49 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:59:33pm

"With every mistake we must surely be learning"

— George Harrison

from an appropriate song in this context

50 ironbill  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:59:49pm

re: #38 Ojoe

Excellent example.

To Ramsey and his ilk this is an example of our cultural chauvinism. We should talk to these people so as we can understand where they're coming from. The reality of the child, a real live viable human with a soul and spirit, never enters into the equation.

Talk is cheap Mr. Ramsey.

51 Luigi  Sun, May 18, 2008 2:59:57pm

Maybe the people we're dying for in Afghanistan aren't so reasonable either.

[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

52 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:00:05pm
53 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:00:14pm

re: #45 natemannq

Ding Dong

Rama dama ding dong

You eat a ding dong for dessert

54 ethanxxx  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:00:27pm

re: #31 song_and_dance_man

A simple "I was wrong" from Ramsey would be appropriate instead of more of the same with different words.

If he was capable of admitting "He was wrong", he wouldn't be a Left wing progressive useful idiot. I've noticed over the years that these children are incapable of admitting error. That's one of the reasons that I keep them as far away from me and my love ones as possible. My father taught me that one of the best things a person can do to improve their life, is to discover and admit that they were wrong.

55 JHW  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:00:38pm

Ramsey is affiliated with this outfit Liberty Foundation

Looks like he considers himself a Libertarian, here's an article of his on R*N P*ul Ron Pa*l in the Spotlight

56 MandyManners  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:00:41pm

re: #48 Killian Bundy

/it was part of an LGF post on Friday, not particularly hard to find

Duh. I even posted on that one. Where's my gray matter?

57 MandyManners  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:01:43pm

re: #55 JHW

Ramsey is affiliated with this outfit Liberty Foundation

Looks like he considers himself a Libertarian, here's an article of his on R*N P*ul Ron Pa*l in the Spotlight

The stupid is strong with that man.

58 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:03:18pm
59 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:03:22pm

re: #50 ironbill

Our culture is superior.

60 paxnhymn  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:03:57pm

re: #45 natemannq

What happens if you eat Raman noodles on Ramadan?

well...if you eat em all nite like hadji does during rumamdumb you get gorged enough to "fast" all day, really making it a usurped fast, just like the rest of the religions dogma..

61 rightymouse  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:04:01pm

re: #38 Ojoe

Or a teenage boy whipped to death for being caught eating during the day during ramadan:

I cannot forget this

One of my dear friends sent me pics of gays being hanged in Iran. My friend, who is gay, is a Dem. Not really liberal in every point, but he hates Hillary and Bush so much, that he only looks through those filters when he sees Obama, who he believes is his only 'choice' in this election. As a consequence, he is on the "negotiating", "what's wrong with talking" meme these days.

62 pat  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:05:01pm

This twit reiterated every arguement aginst appeasement and thought they bolstered his (non) case. Global Warmist!

/warming causes cooling

63 ironbill  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:05:09pm

re: #42 natemannq

What's scary is that this fool, an editor at a major daily newspaper, is so frickin stupid about basic 20th century history.

In addition, he then tries to revise his own account, post facto.

After school newspaper club kids are better editors.

64 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:05:40pm

re: #61 rightymouse

At least the Mullahs are far from your friend, and between them are the US Marines.

65 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:07:12pm
66 Ojoe  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:09:04pm

BBL

67 paxnhymn  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:10:47pm

re: #61 rightymouse

ask him if he's willing to openly procalim his homosexuality on Iranian Tv then ask to "talk" to dinnerjacket...in this case the "harm" in talking is that it will be hard to do with a noose around his neck!

68 wolfie  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:10:54pm

re: #61 rightymouse

I have given copies of Bruce Bawer's While Europe Slept to 3 different gay friends. One, I know, read it and has moved slightly to the right. He is a die-hard liberal but at least a little worried about Obama now.
We have to do our best to share information, that's all. Usually the seed will not even sprout, but sometimes it will.
What more can we do?

69 rightymouse  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:11:10pm

re: #64 Ojoe

At least the Mullahs are far from your friend, and between them are the US Marines.

You got that straight.

My friend is not stupid, just misguided in the filters he uses for many of his positions. He watches CNN, for crying out loud. lol!

70 rightymouse  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:11:49pm

re: #65 song_and_dance_man

I got a great one liner for that, but I better not.


Oh, go ahead.

71 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:12:18pm
72 paxnhymn  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:13:18pm

re: #70 rightymouse

Oh, go ahead.

yeas, please. We all need a hearty laugh as Rome(substitute Rome for the Western city of your choice) burns...

73 ethanxxx  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:13:37pm

re: #38 Ojoe

Or a teenage boy whipped to death for being caught eating during the day during ramadan:

I cannot forget this

People's exhibit 180,438, as to why the abatement of this evil cult should be priority number one of any US president.

74 Glaucon  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:13:54pm

His argument about the reasonableness of Germany's claim to the Sudetenland is not accurate. If fact, it parrots the Nazi propaganda of the time.

Sudeten Germans were not in any way oppressed, and the fact is that Nazi infiltrators were deliberately instigating trouble and inciting the Sudeten Germans to revolt against the Czechs.

Plus, it was well understood that the transfer of the Sudeten territory was a death-knell for the Republic of Czechoslovakia. The Sudeten territory included all of Czechoslovakia's fortresses and border defenses, as well as much of its long-established arms industries. Once Czech troops were ordered to evacuate the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia was virtually defenseless. And that explains why they subsequently surrendered without a fight.

The French, if not the British except for Churchill, understood at the time that they had done something shameful at Munich. When a huge crowd gathered at the airport in Paris to greet PM Daladier, he commented to his aides, "Ces gens sont foux," These people are crazy.

Journalists are tiresome know-nothings.

75 Bob in Breckenridge  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:14:08pm

re: #13 zombie

First he gives his stamp of approval to Hitler's policies, now he gives his stamp of approval to Stalin's policies -- i.e disappearing unwanted facts down the "memory hole."

Is there any genocidal tyrant this guy doesn't like?

/GWB

76 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:14:56pm
77 wolfie  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:15:12pm

re: #71 savage_nation

I heard there are no gays in Iran. Is Dinnerjacket right?

Sure! heh

Well, he hopes he can eliminate homosexuality...........
kinda like the way the USSR eliminated Down's Syndrome.

78 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:16:45pm
79 The Other Les  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:16:46pm

re: #57 MandyManners

The stupid is strong with that man.

The Farce is with him.

80 ironbill  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:17:00pm

re: #74 Glaucon

Bravo. Well done.

81 Bob in Breckenridge  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:17:49pm

re: #24 Mich-again

Take away his blog and give him an Etch a Sketch and a history book.

Fixed.

82 Desert Dog  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:18:08pm

re: #71 savage_nation

I heard there are no gays in Iran. Is Dinnerjacket right?

I hear there is a surplus of assholes though......if you know what I mean

83 Bob in Breckenridge  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:18:35pm

re: #76 savage_nation

HI Bob

Hey savage, how ya been?

84 ethanxxx  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:18:35pm

re: #74 Glaucon

His argument about the reasonableness of Germany's claim to the Sudetenland is not accurate. If fact, it parrots the Nazi propaganda of the time.

Sudeten Germans were not in any way oppressed, and the fact is that Nazi infiltrators were deliberately instigating trouble and inciting the Sudeten Germans to revolt against the Czechs.

Plus, it was well understood that the transfer of the Sudeten territory was a death-knell for the Republic of Czechoslovakia. The Sudeten territory included all of Czechoslovakia's fortresses and border defenses, as well as much of its long-established arms industries. Once Czech troops were ordered to evacuate the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia was virtually defenseless. And that explains why they subsequently surrendered without a fight.

The French, if not the British except for Churchill, understood at the time that they had done something shameful at Munich. When a huge crowd gathered at the airport in Paris to greet PM Daladier, he commented to his aides, "Ces gens sont foux," These people are crazy.

Journalists are tiresome know-nothings.

Ya'... What he said. Well put my friend.

85 Billy Hank  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:18:37pm

Lots of people had Hitler pegged from 1932 on. Bothering to read "Mein Kampf" would have given you the road map. Totalitarians generally tell their populace exactly what they are planning to do in order to garner support. Comfortingly, Dinnerjacket sticks to that script. Anyone who has listened knows what he is planning to do. Ignoring that clumps you with Chamberlain and a host of other sad sack chumps.

You can offer Dracula all the carrot juice in the world, but come sundown, there is only one thing he wants.

86 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:19:11pm
87 Desert Dog  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:19:17pm

Those darn Nazis weren't too bad, you know. But, GWB, he is El Diablo!

88 Pater Coop  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:19:20pm

Ramsey conveniently left out the 2 most nefarious goals in Hitler's 3-step plan:

1. Annex all territories inhabited by Germans.
2. Seize western Russia; eradicate/ enslave Slav population; settle Germans in new territory.
3. Eradicate all non-Germanic citizens within German borders.

89 rightymouse  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:19:26pm

re: #67 paxnhymn

ask him if he's willing to openly procalim his homosexuality on Iranian Tv then ask to "talk" to dinnerjacket...in this case the "harm" in talking is that it will be hard to do with a noose around his neck!


He knows fully well what they would do to him.

Doesn't matter. Logic does not apply.

He still thinks that Bush was talking about Obama specifically in his Knesset speech, and that Obama was not wrong in his position to have dialogue without preconditions with Iran.

Such is the mindset of Dems who cannot intuit the consequences of such foolishness, let alone see the broader brush from which Bush spoke.

90 rightymouse  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:20:41pm

re: #78 song_and_dance_man

Don't all gays hate Bush?

I only know his opinion.

91 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:21:17pm

re: #63 ironbill

If I get his logic (A+ for anyone who does), he's saying, "yeah, hitler was bad but we didn't know it. Therefore, we shouldn't assume it can happen again because we might start a war if we're wrong."

He fails to offer a solution for what to do if the spirit of heir hitler is resurrected.

whack job

92 ironbill  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:22:36pm

re: #88 Pater Coop

I wonder if Ramsey would realize that those measures look very similar to Hamas/Hezbolloh/Iran/Syria.... in reference to Israel.

Probably not.

93 MrTunes  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:22:52pm

Does he think he's getting away with it? Either A) inaccurate history or B) After the Fact self-editing? Both? Neither, but he doesn't care? I am so curious.

Why does he continue to dig his hole? Is he insane?

94 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:24:30pm
95 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:24:34pm

Amazing how Israel is again the object of hatred even before its last holocaust survivor is dead.

Who'd have thought?

96 ethanxxx  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:24:46pm

re: #93 MrTunes

Why does he continue to dig his hole? Is he insane?

Yes! I mean... What is Yes, Alex. Ya'... final answer... Yes, he is insane.

97 Desert Dog  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:24:57pm

Mussolini wasn't that bad either, He made the trains run on time. And, that Stalin fella wasn't so bad either, if you put aside the millions of people he killed. Come to think of it, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao and Saddam Hussein all had reasonable demands too.

98 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:27:09pm

Brucie even put "the good war" in quotes, as if to insinuate that he didn't believe it was necessary personally..

99 Wm T Sherman  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:27:09pm

Ramsey was quite arrogant and condescending in his blog replies to critics of that post. Perhaps in the old days that worked fine for business-as-ususal. Enforced paradgim shift?

100 ethanxxx  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:28:17pm

re: #97 Desert Dog

Mussolini wasn't that bad either, He made the trains run on time. And, that Stalin fella wasn't so bad either, if you put aside the millions of people he killed. Come to think of it, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao and Saddam Hussein all had reasonable demands too.

And don't forget Bin Laden. Hell, we started the whole thing when we... uh... we did that thing... at that place, with that stuff. All praise Satan!

sarc tag sarc tag sarc tag sarc tag sarc tag sarc tag

101 Bob in Breckenridge  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:28:31pm

re: #94 savage_nation

Well, I gotta run.

cya later.

102 natemannq  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:29:33pm

re: #99 Wm T Sherman

condescension = compensation for smallness.

103 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:31:27pm

Authors against Obama

We hear much from Michelle Obama about how unfair life can be for her and by extension all black people. Speaking of unfairness, Robert Stacy McCain has a complaint of his own. How on earth did Barack Obama merit the kind of treatment he got from the publishing world when he was still a law student?

/excellent question, doesn't pass the smell test

104 Sharmuta  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:34:40pm
Thus the lesson of Munich: don't appease Hitlers.

Ok- so appeasing hitlers is bad.

But who else is a Hitler? If you paste that label on somebody it means they are cast out. You can't talk to them any more. And it has gotten pasted on quite a few national leaders over the years: Milosevic, Hussein, Ahmadinejad, et. al. In particular, to apply that label to the elected leaders of the Palestinians is to say that you aren't going to listen to their claims to a homeland.

Ok- so calling hamas "hitler" is bad.

I think they do have a claim. So do the Israelis. In order to get anywhere, each side has to listen to the other. To continually bring up Hitler, the Nazis, the Munich Conference and “appeasement,” is to try to prolong the stalemate.

OK- so prolonging the stalemate is bad.

I think what he's saying here is "appeasement" has gotten a bad rap because we associate it with appeasing hitler, which we should not consider hamas to be. Not talking to hamas is "prolonging the stalemate" and that's just as bad, if not worse than appeasing hitler, (which hamas isn't in his mind). So he's saying we should talk to hamas and he's voting for obama.

105 ethanxxx  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:36:00pm

re: #103 Killian Bundy

That was interesting. I'm really starting to believe that this guy is the Antichrist, if there ever was or will be one.

106 Anna  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:37:17pm
Germany’s claim was that the areas of Europe that spoke German and thought of themselves as German be under German authority.

Now lets replaced German with Chinese... and every little place that spoke that language PRC demanded be returned to them. The number of PRC enclaves would be staggering.

Of course the only thing more staggering is Ramsey's total logical inversion that even his edit can not hide. The West and Israel have been trying to appease the fanatics for decades and nothing has changed, they still want to exterminate the Jews. Just like Munich was not the first attempt to appease Hitler.

Delenda est Ramsery. Ramsey dude, stop digging.

107 opnion  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:37:25pm

re: #97 Desert Dog

Mussolini wasn't that bad either, He made the trains run on time. And, that Stalin fella wasn't so bad either, if you put aside the millions of people he killed. Come to think of it, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao and Saddam Hussein all had reasonable demands too.


I guess that you could say that Pol Pot was just into population management. You know a kind of Eugenics.

108 Yankee Division Son  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:38:39pm
I’m afraid Ramsey may not be cut out for this blogging thing.

Ain't that the truth! Apparently doesn't have a clue that once you post it, you can't take it back.... and you'll look more the fool if you try, as someone will always spot it..

twit.

109 Render  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:39:04pm

re: #44 MandyManners

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Exactly as it appears in that previous thread about the _itler supporting Bruce Ramsey.

BE
ALL
END
ALL,
R

110 Desert Dog  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:39:13pm

re: #107 opnion

I guess that you could say that Pol Pot was just into population management. You know a kind of Eugenics.

"Lord, if I just could have talked to Mr. Pot, all of this could have been avoided"

111 ironbill  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:39:29pm

The comments section pretty much enlightened Brucie as to the facts on the ground in Europe circa 1939. But this one kind of drove it home:

"He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed."

If you were Jewish in Vienna, you might disagree with the "without bloodshed" part. I have friends who lost most of their families because of the Anschluss.

112 Slumbering Behemoth  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:39:53pm

OT: The Myth of the RINO?

From Hotair.

113 n in wi  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:40:01pm

re: #100 ethanxxx
Flavor of the week, Because we support Israel...Because we were defiling the Holy land being in Saudi....Because we are infidels....What ever ,whenever. Because 6th century wife beating ,camel f'ing a..holes
rule the middle east and horde their countries wealth and blame U.S. and Israel when the oppressed people they rule over ever look to their leaders for some modernity and opportunities.

114 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:40:01pm
115 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:40:53pm
116 jaunte  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:41:51pm

re: #103 Killian Bundy

Reading through the comments on "The Other McCain's" site turns up some more interesting links, like those from this commenter:

"I'd be fascinated to find out if this publication offer occurred after Obama spent some time with Bill Ayers, his father and their associates. In particular, when he first met George Soros. The source of my information derives from Steve Diamond, a law professor at Santa Clara University. Here's the link to his article: [Link: globallabor.blogspot.com...]

Those connections would explain such a bizarre offer to an unknown law student. It certainly explains why a inexperienced, second-year lawyer,like Obama was given the position of directing the Ayers- founded, multi-million dollar Annenberg Challenge. In fact, the appointment is beyond bizarre.

The Ayers family directed high-profile goodies at Obama very early in his career. Could Ayers have suggested to someone in his network and with publication connections, that a publication would help launch Obama's future in politics? It's not surprising that Maria Warren of the blog, "Musings&Migraines" wrote about watching Obama give a talk in the home of Ayers and Dohrn, She described a political "launching party" given by them: [Link: www.boston.com...]

I begin to suspect that this was not a casual relationship, but a longterm, carefully executed plan to launch a Trojan horse into the heart of Washington.

117 paxnhymn  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:42:04pm

re: #110 Desert Dog

"Lord, if I just could have talked to Mr. Pot, all of this could have been avoided"

yeah, and besides; all of those skulls and bones were going to be used for roadbed infrastucture, and those people were performing a better good for the new communist government at the time...


//sheesh!

118 opnion  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:42:10pm

re: #110 Desert Dog

"Lord, if I just could have talked to Mr. Pot, all of this could have been avoided"


If Barry Obama had been on the case, things would have been different.
He would have negotiated without those pesky preconditions.
Hell Pol Pot would have got a tingly leg & a man crush, just like Chris Matthews.

119 rightymouse  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:42:27pm

Gotta go.

120 Desert Dog  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:42:55pm

re: #118 opnion

If Barry Obama had been on the case, things would have been different.
He would have negotiated without those pesky preconditions.
Hell Pol Pot would have got a tingly leg & a man crush, just like Chris Matthews.

Or, he would have fainted....don't forget that!

121 Josephine  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:43:30pm

Not a bad re-write: it changes the entire meaning for me.

In the first edition I read this:

"What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable. He wanted the German-speaking areas of Europe under German authority. He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed."

As this:

What Palestinians are demanding is not unreasonable. They want the Palestinian areas of Israel under Palestinian authority. They have already annexed Gaza, the West Bank and the Temple Mount, which are historically Palestinian, without [much] bloodshed.

Now it sounds to me as if he is writing about appeasing Hitler and his ilk. The new bits seem simpler in style, as if he is addressing young students or as if someone else wrote it.

122 paxnhymn  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:44:26pm

re: #112 Slumbering Behemoth

OT: The Myth of the RINO?

From Hotair.


still doesn't justify McCain/feingold or McCain/kennedy...

123 Josephine  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:45:04pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

"So he's saying we should talk to hamas and he's voting for obama."

LOL. Spot on.

124 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:46:02pm
125 Slumbering Behemoth  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:47:20pm

re: #115 song_and_dance_man

I've noticed your last two avatars have a recurring theme.

Why yes, they do. Kind of you to notice. I have a handful of celebrity birds I am thinking of rotating, but I might just go back to using the F.O.A.D., as JCM cleverly dubbed it.

126 Olderthandirt  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:49:42pm

None of the Socialist Journalists, which is the vast majority of that kind, are cut out for modern technologies like the web. They fail to understand that once posted, someone, somewhere, will retain a copy of their original posting, just waiting, lurking so to speak, until said "journalist" tries to use the good old memory hole of forgetfulness.

That'[s why they're sad with the passing of print media, where it was so much easier to hide their blatant ravings! Pinch's media is dead, long live the new media!

127 Desert Dog  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:49:45pm

What will the Left do when President Obama's magical diplo-fu (Charles word, not mine) fails to change the hearts and minds of Hamas, Iran, Syria, et al? How will they react when their naive and simplistic view of the world is exposed? I am hoping we never find out. As much as I dislike McCain (he is my Senator), he will still be 10000000000% better than the lightweight the Dems are offering up.

128 jaunte  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:50:32pm

re: #124 song_and_dance_man

Toward the end of the first linked article, "Who 'Sent' Obama,"
there's this:

As it turns out, there are other ex-SDS types around the Obama campaign as well, including Marilyn Katz, a public relations professional, who was head of security for the SDS during the disaster in the streets of Chicago in 1968. She is close (politically) to Carl Davidson, a former vice president of SDS and longtime Fidelista, who is webmaster for a group called Progressives for Obama, that is headlined by other former 60s radicals like Tom Hayden and the maoist Bill Fletcher. Davidson and Katz were key organizers of the 2002 anti-war demonstration where Obama made public his opposition to the Iraq war that has been so critical to his successful presidential campaign. Davidson apparently moved into the maoist movements of the 70s after the disintegration of SDS.

Now that we have some idea of who "sent" Obama, the left and labor movement deserve to know more about how the exhausted ideas of the authoritarian side of 60's politics may still be influencing the thinking of a potential U.S. president. Maybe Andy Stern's endorsement of Obama makes more sense, now.

[Link: globallabor.blogspot.com...]

Looks like the Che flag wasn't just an accident.

129 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:51:00pm

re: #125 Slumbering Behemoth

Loves me some Johnny Cash!

130 Caboose  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:52:41pm

re: #37 Abu Boo Boo

The whole "we should negotiate" argument is blown apart by the Stalin-Hitler pact.

The Soviets did talk to Hitler. They did negotiate with him. They did reach a "non-aggression" pact.

And then Hitler unleashed a savage attack on the USSR.

The only people fooled by the Stalin-Hitler pact were the Russians.

BTW, the Soviets also helped Hitler come to power by instructing German communists not to form a united front with social democrats against Hitler and the Nazis.

Ramsey is simply ignorant of history.

I just finished a book on the final days of Hitler. I found the analysis of Hitler to be quite interesting in that the book claims that Herr Schiklegrueber had an insatiable desire for death and destruction. His desire for destruction was mentioned as one of the reasons for him attacking Russia after signing the non-aggression treaty.

Some Americans are so woefully ignorant of history and those in the "news & journalism*" fields are dooming the rest of us to have to repeat it...

*aka "whores & prostitutes"

131 pegcity  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:52:42pm

re: #127 Desert Dog

um nothing, they will do what they always do, blame someone else...ie Israel or Bush or the jews.

132 pegcity  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:53:42pm

re: #127 Desert Dog

at least Mcain understands evil, he was subject to it for 5 horrible years

133 Desert Dog  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:54:10pm

re: #131 pegcity

um nothing, they will do what they always do, blame someone else...ie Israel or Bush or the jews.

wrong! They will blame BUSH!

134 solomonpanting  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:54:11pm

Ramsey replies to his critics:

I am making an argument against using the story of the Munich Conference of 1938 and the idea of "appeasement" as a touchstone in making foreign policy decisions in the Middle East. I am making two claims about it. The second claim, which most of the respondents did not mention, is that the comparison is not relevant. That is, that the Middle East is so different from Europe in 1938 that the two should not be connected.

The concept, appeasement , is the same. The desire to eliminate a people--Jews--is the same. The tendency for inaction by stronger, superior forces is the same.

135 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:54:48pm
136 opnion  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:54:55pm

re: #127 Desert Dog

What will the Left do when President Obama's magical diplo-fu (Charles word, not mine) fails to change the hearts and minds of Hamas, Iran, Syria, et al? How will they react when their naive and simplistic view of the world is exposed? I am hoping we never find out. As much as I dislike McCain (he is my Senator), he will still be 10000000000% better than the lightweight the Dems are offering up.

If Obama is elected , his negotiating will produce compromise that the Dems can point to as success. There will be compromise , but not in our best interest, because I truly believe that Obama is sympathetic too the other side
Will McCain be better on the WOT? There is no question. He will screw us in other ways.

137 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:55:29pm
138 n in wi  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:55:30pm

re: #127 Desert Dog

What will the Left do when President Obama's magical diplo-fu (Charles word, not mine) fails to change the hearts and minds of Hamas, Iran, Syria, et al? How will they react when their naive and simplistic view of the world is exposed? I am hoping we never find out. As much as I dislike McCain (he is my Senator), he will still be 10000000000% better than the lightweight the Dems are offering up.

I know already what they will do. It will be Bush's fault. The next 10 years what ever bad thing happens, the left will blame Bush for going to Iraq. I would bet my bottom dollar

139 Killian Bundy  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:56:19pm

re: #128 jaunte

Looks like this could really be something.

/and there's still six months left to unravel it

140 Slumbering Behemoth  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:57:29pm

re: #129 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Loves me some Johnny Cash!

The photo was taken from his 1970 performance at San Quentin.

Here is a scan of the full-page ad he ran in Billboard Magazine. NSFW and hilarious.

141 opnion  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:58:18pm

re: #128 jaunte

Toward the end of the first linked article, "Who 'Sent' Obama,"
there's this:


[Link: globallabor.blogspot.com...]

Looks like the Che flag wasn't just an accident.


Well according to Clarence Paige, it is undereducated blue collar types that believe that Barack consorts with radicals.
See if you are sophisticated enough , obvious truths are easy to ignore.

142 Sharku  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:59:05pm

"Peace in our time" was bought and paid for later with 50 million dead, wonder what "peace in our time" will cost now due to inflation ?

143 Slumbering Behemoth  Sun, May 18, 2008 3:59:08pm

re: #122 paxnhymn

That wasn't the intent of the article.

144 n in wi  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:00:25pm

don't ya just love how this "lame duck"dumb Texan just runs ring around the elitist?

145 itsspideyman  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:01:16pm

Ramsey has a depressingly narrow view of history. In "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", William Shirer paints an entirely different picture. Adolph Hitler was a fully known commodity. On November 8, 1923 Hitler and 600 members of the Nazi Party stormed a beer hall in Munich and declared the formation of a new national government. Police captured he and his henchmen and sent to prison. Two main events came from this. First, Hitler came known nationwide with his impassioned defense. Second, Hitler wrote Mein Kampf while in prison.

Mein Kampf spelled out in intimate detail Hitlers plans. He described the superiority of the German culture and the need to expand to other territories. He stated the need to reject the Treaty of Versailles and rearm Germany. Once arming itself, Germany would attack Eastern Europe and then Russia. And yes, he stated the inferiority of Jews and Gypsies.

The lesson of history is, like Germany, despots of every stripe are stating their intentions if the world will only listen. From Iran to North Korea, they are shouting in our faces their intentions. The definition to appeasement, whether it's Chamberlain or (fill in the blank), is to comprehend in no uncertain terms the nature of an enemies intentions and believe you can "manage" a fanatic to reason. To any appeasers, if the definition fits, wear it.

146 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:02:03pm
147 solomonpanting  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:02:10pm

re: #137 ploome hineni

Howdy from the cold front.

148 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:04:10pm
149 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:04:40pm
150 solomonpanting  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:11:18pm

re: #149 ploome hineni

cold?

it is over 100 here

Yep, you got us beat by a degree or two.

151 jaunte  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:13:30pm

re: #139 Killian Bundy

Sorry for not replying earlier. I've been out doing the 'weeding Americans won't do.'

152 ethanxxx  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:14:26pm

New Bin Laden tape released... BBL.

153 mamashawna  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:14:41pm

re: #1 ethanxxx

Who gives a S**T about Seattle?

I do. I've grown up in and around the Seattle area all my life. Don't care for all the libs, but what can you do?

154 RedStateBlueCity  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:22:32pm

Here's an idea...let Canada "annex" Seattle...lot of English speakers there.

155 USBeast  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:22:35pm

Chamberlain was so convinced of his own righteous opinion that he refused to read the reports from British Intelligence. In their frustration, British Intelligence fed their information to the one person who seemed to have a brain in is head and balls in his pants: Winston Churchill.

Churchill used this information very cleverly. He neither exposed his informants or embarrassed his opponents...much. He used the information he had to warn the British people that they were in extreme danger and, when Hitler proved him right, he brought his former opponents into the war effort

If I could have one prayer that I knew God would would grant it would be: Give us another Churchill.

156 Spar Kling  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:24:16pm

As Czech writer, Karel Capek sarcastically put it at the time, "No sacrifice made by others is too much for the cause of peace. The Czechs have not been sold out--just given away for nothing."

The 1938 Munich agreement did not avoid war, it made it inevitable. It gave Hitler political momentum, most of the extensive Czech border fortifications, more people, and ultimately all of Czech industry.

As with lawyers, it is any politician's first task to make any demand sound reasonable under some legal or moral theory.

As we can see, the gullibility of the mainstream press at the time is obviously matched by gullibility of the press in our time. It's actually worse now, because the press of our time presumably has the benefit of hindsight.

Or maybe this incident simply demonstrates that the full depth of wishful thinking has not yet been reached.

Thus, the appeasement of Nazi Germany in no way is like the appeasement of Islamic Terrorists. For one thing, the initials of Nazi Germany are N and G, while that of Islamic Terrorists are I and T. And Czechoslovakia is in Europe, while Israel is in the Middle East!

You cannot reason with people who think like this.

157 pegcity  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:26:19pm

re: #154 RedStateBlueCity

we already have one vancouver, no need for 2

158 yochanan  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:36:02pm

re: #37 Abu Boo Boo

The failed Rosa Luxembourg led communist revolution was one of the things that lead to the total weakness of the Wiemar republic, One of the other things besides the world wide depression that weakened Germany was the WW1 reparations paid to France.

Before WW1 the German Jewish comm was the most assimilated Jewish communities of any country in Europe. In a short time Germany became the most anti semitic place on earth. Hitlers intentions were clear from the beginning if you read his works just like just like the hatred and anti Semitism coming from the leader of Iran. The Jew became snicklegrubers scape goat just as the Jew is Iran's scape goat for Islam's failures.

Today's appeasers aren't a lot different from Nevile Chamberlain.

159 psyop  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:43:39pm

re: #154 RedStateBlueCity

Please... no. I live in Seattle, we are trying to take it back.

160 psyop  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:45:18pm

If you believe it, the Seattle Times is actually the more conservative of the two daily papers. The Seattle Post-Intelligencer is much more to the left.

161 Dr. Shalit  Sun, May 18, 2008 4:53:47pm

re: #20 ironbill

Ramsey, you're a moron. Churchill was screaming about the menace Hitler was in the early 30s'.

We knew and were fully aware what his intentions were.

Funny thing about the Lefties back in the 30s'. They thought Ribbentrop/Molotov was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Hitler was o.k. till he turned on ole' Joe.

"i-b" - and Everyone Else -

I totally UNDERSTAND Ramsey's Point. By the late 1930's the governments of both the UK and FRANCE had migrated to the "Peace at Any Price" camp. This after the loss of MILLIONS in the "Great War." Churchill - THOUGH CORRECT ON HITLER - was in the political wilderness, due to his first tenure at Admiralty (= GALLIPOLI DISASTER) and Exchequer (= DEPRESSION) in the minds of many UK voters.
I also totally understand the Left's attachment to Ribbentrop/Molotov until June, 1941. After all in the early days of the pact, it saved their nation from war - their "Nation" being the USSR, whose BUTT had been kicked back to Moscow during the SPANISH CIVIL WAR - Ratas were good - Messerschmidts - BETTER - ask the IAF who used them, (Possibly Built by AVIA in the now CZECH REPUBLIC), in 1948.
With ALL of this understanding, let's get to the POINT - Chamberlain, Daladier, and perhaps even Mussolini guessed wrong. Hitler was seen as just another European Politician by all of them, one who could be "bought off." That was the basis of the appeasement policy of the "west." The USSR policy was motivated by abject fear and cynicism.
Bottom line, Europe guessed wrong. So far - so good. The question remains - MUST THE WEST GUESS WRONG ABOUT "IRAN" AS WELL?
I think NOT, and in a more normal world am a "Farsi-Phile." An "Atomic Iran," per se is NOT a problem. Under the current "Twelver Mullocracy" I believe that it is. There lies the RUB!

-S-

162 mean Gene  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:02:55pm

Hitler was a good dancer, too.
And some of those fascists really did get the trains running on time, too.

163 Izzy Dunne  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:13:28pm

re: #49 Ojoe

"With every mistake we must surely be learning"

— George Harrison

No, we're not, and don't call me Shirley!

— Barry "Sweet Home Al" O'bama

164 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:29:32pm
165 Charles  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:41:47pm

Great posts in this thread.

166 WriterMom  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:52:14pm

What a clueless turd.

167 Dad O' Blondes  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:52:19pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

OK- so prolonging the stalemate is bad.

I think what he's saying here is "appeasement" has gotten a bad rap because we associate it with appeasing hitler, which we should not consider hamas to be. Not talking to hamas is "prolonging the stalemate" and that's just as bad, if not worse than appeasing hitler, (which hamas isn't in his mind). So he's saying we should talk to hamas and he's voting for obama.

Right -- that's what Ramsey is doing.

He is trying to recast "appeasement" as valid diplomacy -- and especially "valid" when the "not-so-bad-guys" are NOT Hitler.

Thankfully, "appeasement & Hitler" are inseparable branded properties.

.

168 WriterMom  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:55:06pm

He neglects to mention that by the time Germany invaded for more lebensraum, the 1935 Nuremburg laws had been in effect for some time. So not only was there military confrontations brewing, after having stewed and greivances festering since the Paris conference in 1919, but the agonizing details of his racism and Jew-hatred were already in print and law. Nothing good could come out of turning a blind eye to the Nuremburg laws...

169 WriterMom  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:57:10pm

re: #161 Dr. Shalit

What on earth are you talking about re: Iran...that a nuclear Iran is not a thread 'per se'...care to elaborate?

170 conservativeChick  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:57:11pm

I live in Western Washington and I heard not one bit of this in the local news. Then again the news here has always been in the tank for liberals that they never report or criticize their fellow cronies.

171 profitsbeard  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:57:38pm

So, now he is against Obama's "Let's chat" appeasement "strategy"?

(E.G.: "Don't appease Hitlers?")

Or is Bruce now so confused by his own secretly-censored and convoluted lying that he has forgotten which line of b.s. he is supposedly peddling?

172 greenmiler  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:58:39pm
What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable. He wanted the German-speaking areas of Europe under German authority

This douche must be working for Absolute Vodka's ad agency

173 WriterMom  Sun, May 18, 2008 5:59:18pm

re: #74 Glaucon

Great nic.

174 greenmiler  Sun, May 18, 2008 6:04:22pm
What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable

Charles, I think you should throw this quote into your header rotation at the top of the page.

175 guzziguy  Sun, May 18, 2008 6:04:35pm

Once again, "Seattle, where people are just too damn weird for California." Glenn Beck

176 greenmiler  Sun, May 18, 2008 6:05:44pm

with proper credits to him of course

177 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, May 18, 2008 6:16:53pm
178 pegcity  Sun, May 18, 2008 6:31:50pm

re: #175 guzziguy


ha ha

might as well be Canada

179 wanderer  Sun, May 18, 2008 6:41:50pm

There has never been a tyrant that libs did not love as long as they railed against Judeo-Christian morality, democracy, freedom , and decency. The cluelessness of wackodemia and Journalists' avarice, hubris, stupidity and treachery paved the paths that speeded the world along the path that led to WW I and WW II and the deaths of at least 60 million people and Ramsay and his ilk want to enable a nuclear Iran to kill a few billion infidels.

180 Harry Bergeron  Sun, May 18, 2008 8:39:40pm

Thanks for preserving the original. None of my 3 comments over there got past the editor, tho the last was a little stiff:

"Hello! I am a fool and an ignoramus. Can I get a job writing OpEds for the Times?

When people spot my ignorance, can I call them 'vitriolic'? TIA"

181 norar  Sun, May 18, 2008 11:16:06pm

What I find interesting is that the whole piece sounds like it was written by some middle school student.

182 hoystory  Mon, May 19, 2008 1:22:08am

My comment didn't get through either. It was something along the lines of:

He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed.

Well, that's true. As long as you don't count those pesky Jews.

Heck, it might even be accurate. Gas chambers don't really cause "blood" to be "shed."

Ovens don't either.

And then the jerk blames the readers for reacting to what he wrote and said he didn't mean what he wrote -- a professional writer confessing to being a bad writer.

No talent, skill or intellect required.

183 _Felix  Mon, May 19, 2008 2:18:43am

He did, at least, admit rewriting it because of the response it got. Though that admission might have looked better put at the start of the piece rather than in a comment halfway down the page.

184 CEQAttorney  Mon, May 19, 2008 9:51:49am

Heh. Ramsey's been e-mailing me. Here was his last response (he first asked if I ever read Mein Kampf to which I responded "which edition?")

I tried to read it once and couldn't get more than about three pages.
Anyway, I wasn't saying that Hitler was a reasonable guy, but that a claim by the German state for adjoining territory inhabited by German-speaking people, who thought of themselves as Germans, was not unreasonable on its face. I have modified the paragraph, after having gotten about 100 emails, yours being one of the calmer ones.

The Palestinians could claim equally that they are negotiating under a military occupation, and under threat of territorial theft through the settlements.

B.R.

185 CheDub  Mon, May 19, 2008 10:12:03am

Fairly common stuff for the People's Republic of Puget Sound.

186 recklessprocess  Mon, May 19, 2008 3:44:07pm

Now Ramsey is editing the comments themselves. He has deleted entire posts and edited many others. At least, I would swear that the third or fifth comment had the entire "Hitler was being reasonable..." paragraph and those are no longer there. Many comments that had the whole paragraph quote now only have the first part of the first sentence.

Ramsey is pretty low to be editing comments.


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