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Bush Did Not Apologize for Koran-Shooting, Soldier is Not Being Tried

Tue, May 20, 2008 at 8:34:58 am PDT

Since the media are doing their best to inflame all sides over this Koran-shooting incident, please note that contrary to dozens of wire stories, President Bush “expressed deep concern” to Iraq PM al-Maliki, but he did not apologize. And the soldier responsible is not going to be put on trial.

White House Denies Bush Quran Apology.

WASHINGTON (May 20) — Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki’s office said Tuesday that President Bush apologized for a U.S. soldier shooting at a Quran, but the White House later said Bush expressed “deep concern” and stopped short of apologizing.

National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said the president spoke to Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki on Monday in one of their scheduled video teleconferences, which occur every week or two.

“President Bush expressed his deep concern over the incident and told Prime Minister [al-Maliki] that the soldier has been reprimanded by his commanders and removed from Iraq,” Johndroe said.

However, al-Maliki’s office said Bush issued an apology on behalf of the United States and “promised to present the soldier to the courts.” The office said Bush apologized in a call to al-Maliki on Tuesday morning.

An American staff sergeant — a sniper section leader — used a Quran for target practice earlier this month.

The sergeant was relieved of duty as a section leader “with prejudice,” officially reprimanded by his commanding general, dismissed from his regiment and redeployed — reassigned to the United States.

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143 comments

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1 Fo knee ix  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:36:07am

The Big Lie, redux

2 Shug  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:37:23am

The Holey Koran

3 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:38:02am
4 The Other Les  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:38:32am

These people should learn how to separate fact from falsehood, but that is forbidden in Islam.

5 Squirrelguy  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:38:38am

re: #2 Shug

The Holey Koran

From the pics I saw, everyone over there should be glad it was just a book & not their chest. Pretty good shooting.

6 Terp Mole  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:38:56am

Weren't there instances of Allied soldiers using Mein Kampf for target practice in occupied Germany?

Can you imagine General Patton being forced to kiss "Mein Kampf" during an apology ceremony in occupied Germany?

Would Truman apologize to Hirohito if an Allied soldier shot up a copy of The Kojiki?

This incident is absurdity on stilts.

7 VegasRick  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:39:00am

re: #2 Shug

The Holey Koran

"Holey shit, Batman"

8 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:39:11am

(with apologies to "Portal") The book is a lie!

9 EC Marm  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:40:00am

If we were still fighting for control of Iraq the soldiers actions would be one thing. You know war sucks and all that. But in my opinion, we've begun the 100 years occupation of Iraq and just as soldiers in South Korea and Germany don't thumb their noses at the country they're in this soldier should not have either.
Transfer him to Hawaii, and make him check for ordnance on the beach until his tour runs out. But let the rest of the troops know, next time won't be treated as lightly.

10 LEGION  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:40:06am

If one wanted to get deployed back home, this is a sure fire way to do it! Although super majority want to be there with their buddies, even the previously wounded. Much ado about nothing, those super sensitive shiites should shadd-up.

11 The Other Les  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:40:10am

re: #7 VegasRick

"Holey shit, Batman"

I would never insult excrement by...

12 billsfan28277  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:40:38am

I'm sure the Bible is held in high esteem in any country which practices the RoP.

13 LEGION  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:41:07am

re: #3 taxfreekiller

Will the U.S. unSenate sell out today on the amnesty attached to the Iraq War funds.

[Link: www.numbersusa.com...]

Already faxed and called my Senators complaining about this. Let's all get on the phone!

14 Sharmuta  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:41:08am

I don't think there is any way this soldier will be handed over to an Iraqi court for this.

15 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:41:29am
16 The Other Les  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:41:31am

re: #9 EC Marm

There's a nice uninhabited island in the chain that the Navy used to use for target practice...

17 Terp Mole  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:42:03am

Eurabia ranks US;

Economist (UK): US more violent than Libya, Cuba, Syria

..."The U.S. does so badly because [it] has the highest proportion of jailed people in the world. And it has high levels of homicide and high potential for terrorist attacks," Killelea told The Associated Press. "Its overall score is a reflection of that. The index is not making any moral statements by the ranking."

Gavin Hayman, director of campaigns for Global Witness, a non-governmental organization that lobbies against corruption and human rights abuse, said the results were slightly skewed.

/slightly?

18 VegasRick  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:42:13am

re: #11 The Other Les

I would never insult excrement by...

You are right. I should not insult excrement.

19 ziggyelman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:42:16am

OT, why is the NBC editing of Bush's comments, not a big story, even on the right side of the web? This should be THE Story right now, IMHO...

20 thedopefishlives  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:43:13am

re: #14 Sharmuta

I don't think there is any way this soldier will be handed over to an Iraqi court for this.

Of course not, Shar. It'd be tantamount to saying that we'd sign on to the International Criminal Court.

Sad to say, I can think of at least one Presidential nominee who would do just that.

21 The Other Les  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:43:21am

re: #17 Terp Mole

Frak Eurabia.

22 mikeinmd  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:44:19am

When did Richard Engel start working for Al-Maliki ?

23 Bosch Fawstin  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:44:30am

I think this soldier's 'punishment' should be to actually read the Koran, which would make him feel more justified for shooting it up. That is, if that wasn't the reason he shot it up in the first place. This is what happens when we pretend to give a damn about a book that calls for our destruction.

24 ROPMA  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:45:07am
25 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:45:22am

Thanks for this thread Charles - the media really IS doing it's best (and they are doing it pretty damn well) to get all "sides" involved overheated with this non-issue.
This thread will at least calm down some LGFer's and, I hope, a lot of LGF "readers"!

26 VegasRick  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:45:24am

AOL is funny
"Which is the better response?"
Apology
Concern
"Vote"

They forgot to list "Who gives a shit" as a response.

27 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:45:40am
28 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:45:40am
29 Shug  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:45:44am

what are done to bibles confiscated at Saudi airports?

30 ziggyelman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:46:05am

re: #20 thedopefishlives

Of course not, Shar. It'd be tantamount to saying that we'd sign on to the International Criminal Court.

Sad to say, I can think of at least one Presidential nominee who would do just that.

Yep, I am sure Obama is all for the ICC, bet he will never be asked that question before now and his coronation...

31 Dianna  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:46:13am

re: #9 EC Marm

Sensible suggestion.

I don't understand the Iraqi ministry claiming there was an apology, though.

32 Cartman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:46:19am

If this were an Obama-led administration, the soldier would have been figuratively drawn and quartered. with accelerated "sensitivity training" immediately required for all military personnel.

33 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:46:32am

The book was victimized!

/urban outfitters

34 bosforus  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:46:35am

re: #29 Shug

what are done to bibles confiscated at Saudi airports?

Don't trouble yourself with such trivial matters.

35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:46:39am

re: #17 Terp Mole

Eurabia ranks US;


/slightly?

Next time they need their asses pulled out of a fire, call Libya, China or Syria.

36 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:47:07am

I don't think another soldier should die for these idiot people and their trifling book.

37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:47:11am

re: #26 VegasRick

AOL is funny
"Which is the better response?"
Apology
Concern
"Vote"

They forgot to list "Who gives a shit" as a response.

D: F*** em if they cant take a joke

38 Dianna  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:47:15am

re: #14 Sharmuta

He's been removed from Iraq, and they have no jurisdiction over him anyway.

39 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:48:16am
40 EC Marm  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:48:21am

re: #31 Dianna

Sensible suggestion.

I don't understand the Iraqi ministry claiming there was an apology, though.


Unless it was a Pope Benedict style, "we're sorry you got so upset" type of non-apology.

41 VegasRick  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:48:22am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

D: F*** em if they cant take a joke

F*** em even if they can.

42 Canadastani  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:48:29am

Shooting the Koran does American troops harm because it needlessly inflames some locals who are trending in our direction. We know that the Koran inspires those who kill us, but it also does inspire those who work with us like the Iraqi Army and the Kurds. It would be one thing to use it at a shooting range in the US or even in Iraq and dispose of it, but it is different to inflame our allies.
Terp Mole's analogy with "Mein Kampf" (#6) is way off because Mein Kampf was strictly political, while the Koran is political and religious. Mein Kampf only inspired our enemy while this inspires our enemy and our allies. A better WWII analogy would be shooting up something relating to Charlemagne (if people still actively cared about it), offending both the touchy allies the Free French and the Germans.

So let's be clear, shooting up a Koran and leaving it around for the locals to find was a knucklehead thing to do. With that said, I am glad the President did not actually apologize and that the soldier will not face trial.

43 snowcrash  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:49:04am

MSM won't be happy until they turn this into another Abu Ghraib. Cheap sensationalism.

44 Shug  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:49:20am

re: #42 Canadastani

So let's be clear, shooting up a Koran and leaving it around for the locals to find was a knucklehead thing to do. With that said, I am glad the President did not actually apologize and that the soldier will not face trial.

close this thread. nothing can improve on that

45 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:50:02am

If the big media cannot turn this into Abu Graib (sp) then it is a sign that their grip is slipping, and that is good.

46 Cartman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:50:53am

re: #43 snowcrash

MSM won't be happy until they turn this into another Abu Ghraib. Cheap sensationalism.

They'll flog this dead horse all the way to the glue factory.

47 bosforus  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:52:05am

BBC's headline: 'Bush apology' for Koran shooting

US President George W Bush has made a personal apology over the shooting of a Koran by an American soldier...


Their source for this apology isn't, as you might think, the words of President Bush, but rather, Reuters.

"The American president apologised on behalf of the United States... promising to present the soldier to the courts," Reuters news agency quoted the statement as saying.

Bravo, BBC! Well done. Journalism at its finest.

48 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:52:14am
An American staff sergeant — a sniper section leader

Among other things, this whole thing represents a real waste of talent. Guys with this skill set we NEED over there.

49 ROPMA  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:52:42am

So someone shot up a Koran.

50 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:53:06am

re: #31 Dianna

I don't understand the Iraqi ministry claiming there was an apology, though.

Imagine what it must be like dealing with these people on a daily basis.

51 Limitbreak22  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:53:19am

Gag me..... We are a nation of whiney babies with no spine.

Shoot the Bible, no reaction. Koran, and all hell breaks loose. Screw the over-sensitive Muslims. I wouldn't freak out if a Bible was shot up. I'd be pissed, but it's an oh well situation. I'm sick of our armed forces being nuetered by PC Generals.... *sighs* When will we come to our senses.

I think I'll purchase a Koran this weekend and take it to the range with me. I need to sight in my ar15 and run some rounds through my glock 33.

52 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:53:31am

Hole - e koran, Batman

I am in poor taste

I ate as much as I wanted

53 lawhawk  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:53:59am

If only people cared as much about human lives as an inanimate object. And if they chose to care about this inanimate object, they'd care just as much about other inanimate objects of similar significance.

The media has sought to blow this situation out of proportion, which is understandable since the situation in Iraq has improved to the point of it being an anti-story. Good news is the only thing going on in Iraq these days as the political situation and military situation are improving on a daily basis.

So, when the military informs that they've taken action against a soldier who acted stupidly, the media goes into a lather.

Nice.

54 Cartman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:54:08am

re: #48 Occasional Reader

Among other things, this whole thing represents a real waste of talent. Guys with this skill set we NEED over there.

Ain't that the truth...

55 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:54:56am

re: #48 Occasional Reader

Among other things, this whole thing represents a real waste of talent. Guys with this skill set we NEED over there.

Yes we do, but his actions, if true, does question his judgement.

56 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:55:15am

Don't eat too much now, wouldn't want people to think we're not OK

57 Cartman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:55:26am

re: #50 Charles

Imagine what it must be like dealing with these people on a daily basis.

A cconstantly moving target, so to speak.

58 Endangered in MASS  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:55:27am

re: #32 Cartman


If this were the Obama admin. it never would have happened.

Obama would have unassed that AO on day one.

59 snowcrash  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:55:44am

The media continues its single minded obsession with showing Iraq as a incurable mess.

60 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:56:15am

Are you well-fed and rested?

61 Cartman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:56:20am

er...constantly

/sheesh

62 lobo91  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:56:30am

re: #14 Sharmuta

I don't think there is any way this soldier will be handed over to an Iraqi court for this.

That was never in the realm of possibility.

US military personnel are not subject to Iraqi jurisdiction, period.

63 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:56:51am

Bacon?

64 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:57:01am

re: #48 Occasional Reader
I agree completely. Besides, Muslims seem to be doing a real bang-up job of destroying Korans when they attack other Muslims at a mosque.

65 Shug  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:57:10am

re: #59 snowcrash

The media continues its single simple minded obsession with showing Iraq as a incurable mess.

fixed for reuters

66 The Other Les  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:57:14am

re: #50 Charles

Imagine what it must be like dealing with these people on a daily basis.

Like talking to the bad guys in ATLAS SHRUGGED squared and cubed.

67 Cygnus  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:58:04am

re: #49 ROPMA

So someone shot up a Koran.

NSFW!

68 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:58:54am

Good thing Bush is president and not Obama.
He'd throw the soldier to the Islamists.
Oh, that's right. He'd get all of our soldiers out, with the biggest retreat since the French left Vietnam.

69 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:59:31am

Dietary supplements are not OK

70 debutaunt  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:59:44am

re: #51 Limitbreak22

Gag me..... We are a nation of whiney babies with no spine.

People used to say: "Grow Up!"

Now they hold your hand and suggest complaints you probably are bravely holding back.

71 Yankee Division Son  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:59:45am

OT-
DailyKos's "new southern strategy" post has now been completely removed..

72 toadbelly  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:59:52am

sometimes your only options are either angry defiance (shooting at a Koran) or slavish obedience (kissing the Koran).
sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't

73 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:00:08am

I'll have a milkshake

BBL

74 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:00:11am

re: #3 taxfreekiller

Will the U.S. unSenate sell out today on the amnesty attached to the Iraq War funds.

[Link: www.numbersusa.com...]

Hah. Here's the e-mail I sent off to Bob Bennett's office last week:

I noticed on Michelle Malkin’s website that you have tacked your name onto Dianne Feinstein’s illegal alien amnesty rider for the Iraq war supplemental spending bill. I can’t help but wonder why you have done so. This certainly does not represent my view of the situation, and I hope you change your mind — preferably before the bill goes to vote on the Senate floor. I strongly encourage you to remove your support from the entire bill and vote against it; the Iraq war needs funding, but if the liberals and Democrats are going to try to sneak in things like illegal alien amnesty along with it, the bill heartily deserves to die. More to the point, if Senators such as yourself are willing to go along with this deceit, then to my mind you are no better than they are and will not be receiving my vote when the time comes.

Coming from someone whose first time voting, ever, will be this November, and who thus has a chance to influence the election for a looooong time, I hope he perks up and listens.

75 pat  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:00:27am

I guess the Prsident of Iraq really did not have too much on the agenda at the teleconference. Or at least nothing as important as this trivial incident.

76 DownRightMeanAmerican  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:00:41am

re: #7 VegasRick

"Holey shit, Batman"

Holey shiite, imam.

77 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:00:52am

re: #46 Cartman

They'll flog this dead horse all the way to the glue factory.

Then they'll flog the bottle of Elmer's Glue-All.

78 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:02:01am
79 Shug  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:02:07am

re: #77 Ward Cleaver

Then they'll flog the bottle of Elmer's Glue-All.


They strike me as glue eaters rather than glue floggers

80 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:02:16am

re: #55 Nevergiveup
Well, I'm not so sure the Koran was in fact shot up by an American, but - as I posted in my #64 - it would appear that Muslims don't mind destroying the Koran at all.

81 The Other Les  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:02:31am

re: #53 lawhawk

If only people cared as much about human lives as an inanimate object. And if they chose to care about this inanimate object, they'd care just as much about other inanimate objects of similar significance.


The Koran is (for a Muslim) the embodied spoken thought of God. To shoot a Koran is to shoot the physically manifested part of God.

Of course in the real world the Koran is really part of the mutilated and dessicated corpse of a tree.

82 Insufficiently Sensitive  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:02:49am

So let's be clear, shooting up a Koran and leaving it around for the locals to find was a knucklehead thing to do.

So let's be even clearer. Shooting up a Koran was knuckleheaded and 'everybody' (in the media world) agrees the horrible soldier should be punished. And submerging Jesus Christ is a bottle of piss is dazzling fine art, and the punishment is a government subsidy, and (according to the same media) complaints about the act are a horrible form of censorship.

So we've established yet another example of present-day moral equivalency - both acts had horrible things associated with them.

83 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:02:52am

re: #79 Shug

They strike me as glue eaters rather than glue floggers

You're right.

"Miss Brown, Markos is eating paste again!"

84 Sharmuta  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:02:58am

re: #62 lobo91

That was never in the realm of possibility.

US military personnel are not subject to Iraqi jurisdiction, period.

I didn't think so- but some people are buying into the spin.

85 abu Lahab  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:03:13am

I'm sick of this Islamic "sensitivity" when it comes to anything but suicide bombing and beheading. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
See what picture the BBC chose of president Bush, to make more effect with the title:
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
MSM sucks!

86 Cygnus  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:03:27am
87 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:03:34am

re: #80 realwest

Well, I'm not so sure the Koran was in fact shot up by an American, but - as I posted in my #64 - it would appear that Muslims don't mind destroying the Koran at all.

I know, but it still doesn't mean we have to give the assholes any ammunition to use against us.

88 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:03:38am

re: #71 Yankee Division Son

OT-
DailyKos's "new southern strategy" post has now been completely removed..

That memory hole's getting awfully plugged. Someone get a plunger.

89 Bosch Fawstin  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:03:47am

From JW:

On Monday, the Iraqi Islamic Party, the movement of Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, condemned what it said was a "blatant assault on the sanctities of Muslims all over the world."

The party said it reacted to the news "with deep resentment and indignation" and wants the "severest of punishments" for the action......
"I have asked that first this apology be officially documented; second a guarantee from the U.S. military to inflict the maximum possible punishment on this soldier so it would be a deterrent for the rest of the soldiers in the future."

90 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:04:37am

re: #68 Kosh's Shadow
"the biggest retreat since the United States French left Vietnam. Fixed that for you - leaving Iraq post-haste is just gonna do wonders with our allies.

91 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:05:10am

re: #78 song_and_dance_man

Has Rage Boy been reached for comment?

Yes, he issued the following statement:

"DEATH TO AMERICA, DEATH TO AMERICA, DEATH TO AMERICA"

It just kept going on like that.

92 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:05:16am

Way OT:

NY Gov. Paterson in hospital with migraine

Not tonight dear, I've got a headache.

93 Dianna  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:05:35am

re: #50 Charles

Tiresome and distasteful, I imagine.

94 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:05:46am

re: #89 Bosch Fawstin

From JW:

On Monday, the Iraqi Islamic Party, the movement of Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, condemned what it said was a "blatant assault on the sanctities of Muslims all over the world."

Boo freakin' hoo, Tariq! It's a blatant assault on humanity for the crimes they commit in a false prophet on a daily basis!

I'm not bitter or anything. :/

95 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:06:25am

re: #79 Shug Hi Shug!
"They strike me as glue eaters sniffers rather than glue floggers" there, fixed that for ya!

96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:07:05am

Can't seem to get the new thread to load.

97 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:07:06am

re: #71 Yankee Division Son

heh.

98 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:07:20am

re: #94 MrSilverDragon

...in the name of a false prophet...

Clearly, too fired up here...

99 lobo91  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:07:23am

re: #89 Bosch Fawstin

From JW:

On Monday, the Iraqi Islamic Party, the movement of Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, condemned what it said was a "blatant assault on the sanctities of Muslims all over the world."

The party said it reacted to the news "with deep resentment and indignation" and wants the "severest of punishments" for the action......
"I have asked that first this apology be officially documented; second a guarantee from the U.S. military to inflict the maximum possible punishment on this soldier so it would be a deterrent for the rest of the soldiers in the future."

He can ask for anything he likes.

Doesn't mean he's going to get it.

100 jaunte  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:07:53am

Terp Mole links above to a good Robert Spencer piece on the incident.

101 toadbelly  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:08:55am

re: #85 abu Lahab

You know you used to be able to email those jackasses at the BBC, but they've since removed that option- too many emails asserting the truth.

102 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:09:00am

re: #56 Ojoe

Don't eat too much now, wouldn't want people to think we're not OK

I'm heading out to lunch now.

What's my limit?

103 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:09:42am

re: #87 Nevergiveup And we still don't know if we did give them any ammo to use against us.
We do know, however, that we've "given them" the lives of over 4,000 US Troops and that ought to cut some slack with them. And if it doesn't, F**K them.

104 Dianna  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:09:44am

re: #82 Insufficiently Sensitive

I never really "got" transgressive art. I thought art was about beauty.

105 trailortrash  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:09:50am

how many inocent civilians where carrying koran's when blown to bits by their own people?

106 sparrowlake  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:10:13am
Another military official kissed a Quran and presented it as "a humble gift" to the tribal leaders.

Kiss my ass.

107 akak  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:10:37am

self defense does not warrant apology

108 AMER1CAN  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:12:57am

Save your ammo and just burn the thing next time.
Carry on.

109 anotherindyfilmguy  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:13:48am

re: #6 Terp Mole

Until the west identifies islam as the problem forget it, p.c. rules the day... western leaders don't want to recognize that islam is the problem out of fears that it would "radicalize" the islamic hordes etc and lead to a massive war/upheavals/change in status quo etc... until war are declared maintaining the status quo rules...

110 opnion  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:14:18am

re: #102 loppyd

I'm heading out to lunch now.

What's my limit?


With the ascendency of thwe Obama Administration, new rules will apply.
There will be a corporation set up by Reverend Wright
Any of you 'bitter" crackers that exceed your government reccomended food allotment will be required to purchase dining credits.

111 Terp Mole  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:15:47am
re: #42 Canadastani Terp Mole's analogy with "Mein Kampf" (#6) is way off because Mein Kampf was strictly political, while the Koran is political and religious. Mein Kampf only inspired our enemy while this inspires our enemy and our allies.

I take it you don't object to the Shinto-fascism analogy then?

Would Truman apologize to Hirohito if an Allied soldier shot up a copy of The Kojiki?

Nazi neo-paganism transforms Mein Kampf (beyond merely political) to religious-cult status. See also Shirer on "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich":

"...under the leadership of Rosenberg, Bormann and Himmler, who were backed by Hitler, the Nazi regime intended eventually to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists. As Bormann, one of the men closest to Hitler, said publicly in 1941, 'National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable.'

What the Hitler government envisioned for Germany was clearly set out in a thirty-point program for the 'National Reich Church' drawn up during the war by Rosenberg, an outspoken pagan...

"The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right and the exclusive power to control all churches within the borders of the Reich: it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich.

"The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably...the strange and foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800...

"The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests, but National Reich orators are to speak in them.

"The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible in Germany...'"

"On the altars there must be nothing but 'Mein Kampf' (to the German nation and therefore to God the most sacred book) and to the left of the altar a sword.

"On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals and chapels...and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika."

[The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William L. Shirer, p. 240 in some editions, p. 332 in others. Chapter headed "Triumph and Consolidation", subsection "The Persecution of the Christian Churches"]

Moreover, it is no small coincidence who Hitler modelled Mein Kampf after.

112 jamgarr  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:18:44am

re: #51 Limitbreak22

Gag me..... We are a nation of whiney babies with no spine.

Shoot the Bible, no reaction. Koran, and all hell breaks loose. Screw the over-sensitive Muslims. I wouldn't freak out if a Bible was shot up. I'd be pissed, but it's an oh well situation. I'm sick of our armed forces being nuetered by PC Generals.... *sighs* When will we come to our senses.

I think I'll purchase a Koran this weekend and take it to the range with me. I need to sight in my ar15 and run some rounds through my glock 33.


IMHO being neutered and taking the high ground are two different things.

113 find your violent jihadi on ebay!  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:21:22am

It was a stupid thing to do. One can despise the Jihad and the oversensitive whining of the Ummah while also feeling that soldiers need to exercise good judgment. So far, the military has done the right thing - get him out of Iraq. If it goes beyond that, punishment-wise, then it'll quickly evolve into an unfair travesty in the name of appeasing the enemy. But no matter how you slice it, shooting up the holy book of the people who happen to live in the area of operations is bad judgment.

114 jamgarr  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:25:34am

re: #104 Dianna

I never really "got" transgressive art. I thought art was about beauty.


Read the review of Mark Morris Dance Group performances of L'Allegro, il Penseroso ed il Moderato (in which my daughter performed this past weekend in Seattle) at:
[Link: seattlest.com...] for a little renewal then.


/proud papa

115 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:31:35am

re: #102 loppyd

Surely do not eat a waffle.

116 Bosch Fawstin  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:33:10am

re: #99 lobo91

He can ask for anything he likes.

Doesn't mean he's going to get it.

Oh, I hope he does get it, just not in the way he 'thinks'.

117 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:33:16am

re: #104 Dianna

Art is about beauty.

118 lobo91  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:37:01am

re: #113 find your violent jihadi on ebay!

So far, the military has done the right thing - get him out of Iraq. If it goes beyond that, punishment-wise, then it'll quickly evolve into an unfair travesty in the name of appeasing the enemy.

He was also relieved for cause, and given a General Officer letter of reprimand.

His military career is over.

But there is very little chance that he'll be tried for anything.

119 Rednek  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:41:42am

When do I get to hear some appologies for all the American Flags that have been burnt over the years?

120 incanus  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:44:14am

re: #119 Rednek

When do I get to hear some appologies for all the American Flags that have been burnt over the years?

Feb 30th.

121 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:48:37am

re: #90 realwest

"the biggest retreat since the United States French left Vietnam. Fixed that for you - leaving Iraq post-haste is just gonna do wonders with our allies.

And it always amazes me that the same people who say we should support those in Iran who want to overthrow the mullahs, but we should pull out of Iraq.
So, who would be stupid enough to want us as allies when we withdraw on when things get tough? (Not that they're so bad in Iraq)

122 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:55:38am

re: #9 EC Marm Sorry to have to disagree with you on this EC, but we are still in COMBAT in Iraq - this isn't like Germany or South Korea at all.
We're still fighting Al-Sadr's "militia" in Mosul and Basra and Al-Q wherever we can find them.
AFAIC, Iraq is still very much a combat zone.

123 anubis_soundwave  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:57:29am

Koran. Bible. Torah. Whatever Hindus read. Buddhist scriptures. Of these, only one belief system thinks the paper the SCRIPTURES were written on has any importance.

I think that if a belief system is strong, having the book shot (or otherwise desecrated) would be an annoyance for true believers. One of these belief systems *coughislamcough* is too weak to go on existing. It can't win in the marketplace of ideas, and it's sunk.

Who will it be! (from IRON CHEF)

124 bolivar  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:11:41am

Don't care what anybody says, would love to meet this Sargeant and buy him a beer and shake his hand. His heart is in the right place if his sense is not. To pull this IN Iraq was foolhardy but, still his heart is in it. Only wish our leaders had some more balls.

Whole damn world is turning into a bunch of whiney ass pansies and crying over any real or imagined slight. If I whined everytime somebody did something that offended or upset me my wife would cuff me and say shut up you ass^@!*. Get the picture?

125 GGMac  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:28:45am

Please forgive me for not reading (yet) the entire thread - in the event that my bringing attention to this aspect of the "incident"'s results is redundant:

"An American sniper was removed from Iraq after he used a copy of the Quran for target practice, the military said Sunday, a day after a U.S. commander held a FORMAL CEREMONY apologizing to the Sunni tribal leaders."
"The elaborate ceremony - in which one U.S. OFFICER KISSED a new copy of ISLAM'S HOLY BOOK before giving it to tribal leaders - reflected the military's eagerness to stave off anger among Sunni Arabs..."
"I come before you here seeking your forgiveness," MAJ.Gen. JEFFERY HAMMOND was quoted as saying at the ceremony. "In the most humble manner I look into your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers."
"The actions of one soldier were nothing more (sic!) than criminal behavior," he added.
The commander also read a letter of apology bt the shooter, who has not been identified, while another MILITARY OFFICIAL KISSED A QURAN and presented it to the tribal leaders, according to CNN.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

All those infuriated caps are mine. The soldier is not being tried - although the legal term "with prejudice" means charges can be brought at some later time.

IMHO: the quran-kissing shame of the U.S. military should be brought up for Court Martial, along with any of his "associates", whether military or State Dept.....and this definitely smells like State.

In it's own way, this military/dhimmi ceremony is as bad as it gets, and I fear for our future.

Has Obamamessiah had anything to say about this? Hillary? War hero McCain?

126 GGMac  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:32:38am

Please forgive my rage, fellow Lizards - I'm just so mad I....


*SPIT*

127 nyc redneck  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:34:09am

i'm glad pres. bush did not apologize. i'm glad the soldier is not being tried.
we need to move on and leave the msm media flailing.

128 markie  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:41:25am

Absent any evidence it was marked in any way besides Arabic, and therefor likely unidentified, one can only come to the conclusion:

ITS A BOOK

and therefor worthy of serving as an object to test sight alignment and demonstrate proof of successful hits. Anything might have sufficed, discarded pottery, a broken portable CD player, whatever.

If Iraq had a decent sized phone book, one might have been used instead, but one wasn't, so GET OVER IT.


Over.

129 GGMac  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:44:23am

re: #92 Ward Cleaver

Way OT:

NY Gov. Paterson in hospital with migraine

Not tonight dear, I've got a headache.


Which "dear"?

130 Mad Mullah  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:07:22am

The link for the article has now been changed.

If you click on the AOL link, the headline is now completely the opposite of what was there before.

It now says that Bush did apologize.

131 CLLRusso  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:39:24am

Have I missed something? I have never heard one apology from any of the Saudis for 9/11, or any of the other Islamic entities for the murder of our soldiers, diplomats, or civilians anywhere, and people are more important that ANY book. The Islamic sensibilities are a load of %@$#.

132 AZDave  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:55:02am
President Bush “expressed deep concern” to Iraq PM al-Maliki, but he did not apologize. And the soldier responsible is not going to be put on trial.

In a word: Good!

133 kirche  Tue, May 20, 2008 12:07:51pm

no articles on the koran target shooting mentioned how far away the sniper was shooting from... i was just curious.

134 eaglewingz08  Tue, May 20, 2008 12:37:56pm

Posing a question: Suppose a homicide bomber is wearing a Quran over the bombsite which Quran also covers the bomber's vital chest and abdominal organs, does the soldier have the right to shoot the bomber, if in doing so he will inflict collateral damage on that muslim holy book? If the soldier shoots the soldier in the back but the bullets exit into the Quran strapped to the bomber's abdomen, is that also a desecration of the Quran that requires an apology?

135 eaglewingz08  Tue, May 20, 2008 12:40:03pm

GGMac,
'without prejudice' means the charges or complaint can be brought again.
"with prejudice" as in 'dismissed with prejudice' means the disposition is final and cannot be reopened.

136 Belasarius  Tue, May 20, 2008 12:46:19pm

"Among other things, this whole thing represents a real waste of talent. Guys with this skill set we NEED over there."

This guy is not smart enough to be over there. Snipers are supposed to be especially smart and mature. That would include some familiarity with and respect for his host countries culture. Shooting is just part of it. Nobody becomes a military sniper just by shooting well.

I spent 21 years in the military and after 6 years in Iraq you would think that nobody would be stupid enough to take a Koran to a range shared with Iraqi military personnel, shoot it up, and leave it for them to find. He gives morons a bad name. Was he trying to make people forget about Abu Graib? Instead of apologizing to the Iraqis he should go from post to post and personally apologize to all his fellow Americans in the theater for making their job harder.

I don't care about the impression it makes on our throat-cutting enemies but I do care about the impression it makes on the people we are trying to ally ourselves with and positively influence.

137 scullymj  Tue, May 20, 2008 1:56:01pm

It would seem that the unknown SSGT. sniper has excelled in enemy identification where the Generals have failed. To paraphrase James Carville, "It's Islam, stupid". Winston Churchill knew this 100 years ago. This is from his 1899 book, The River War, written when he was 24 years old:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live....A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities ... but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome." [The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pp. 248-50.]

Let us hope that in time, we will acknowledge the identity of the real enemy we face and it is not some cave dwelling madman but the very ideology that drove him mad. Only when we put that ideology back in it's box will Western civilization be safe. Japanese Militarism, German Nazism, Russian Communism were defeated without destroying the citizens in mass. Surely we can do the same with Mohammed's 1,400 year old lie.

138 wanumba  Tue, May 20, 2008 2:08:54pm

I'll have an opinion WHEN and IF it's been determined it really happened. We're at war, propaganda battles pop up everywhere - see the string of miraculous Koran stories displayed at Gateway Pundit - seems the photographer has a boxload of photos he made of scorched Korans that miraculously made it through missile strikes. No one else, of course, just him. His speciality evidently.
It just serves the enemy's purpose to get all a flutter everytime something like this comes out. Our soldiers are more savvy than the media gives them credit for. If they foolishly rile the locals, they'll be the first ones to get the blowback, so they have very personal and practical reasons for NOT doing anything rude. For boorish is the supposed fault. Boorish. That's it. While other countries' troops raid and pillage and create various havock, our troops bad behavior makes it only up to the "tacky" and "insensitive" levels of misbehaving. Unbelieveable. Both for the outstanding comportment of our military and for the collossal manufactured outrage against nothing.
The media obviously is so sheltered, they've never been faced with really misbehaving troops. How about that, an American can live his or her ENTIRE life and not once ever encounter a shake-down military checkpoint, a midnight house raid for money and women, a coup, a mutiny, being trapped between a terrifying clash between drunken troops and sober ones.
AMERICAN TROOPS ARE THE BEST EVER!

139 GGMac  Tue, May 20, 2008 2:12:55pm

re: #135 eaglewingz08

GGMac,
'without prejudice' means the charges or complaint can be brought again.
"with prejudice" as in 'dismissed with prejudice' means the disposition is final and cannot be reopened.

Obviously I'm not a lawyer - got that backwards. Thanks for the correction.

140 shanester  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:49:13pm

What the heck could anybody charge him for anyway? These idiots don't understand (or refuse to) the USA. Actually, I believe they do... but want to change us and our country.

Waste of bullets?
If not that, it's a (sort of) form of freedom of speech. If the guy did it to a bible, we could dock his pay for the bullets, but then what? Nothing. One day leave without pay?

Sorry, Muslim freaks, freedom goes BOTH ways. Sorry you don't like that. If that bothers you... go away... go to another country. There are HUNDREDS of things that bother me about the good ol' USA, but I'm not leaving and cherish every freaking minute I am here.

Plus, if this idiot did it to a bible, it'd never be on the news and never be heard anyway.

Why?

Cause we're NOT INSANE!

141 Yankee Sojourner  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:06:37pm

"An American staff sergeant — a sniper section leader — used a Quran for target practice earlier this month."

As a Staff Sergeant he has several years under his belt. As a sniper he belongs to an elite highly trained unit and received instruction on the importance of disposing of any evidence. He should have had the presence of mind and good sense to ensure there were no onlookers and just throw the damn thing away when he was done. Even so and speaking as a former active duty Legal Clerk (71Delta) this is not a chargeable offense unless they've added a new article for "utter stupidity" to the UCMJ. This brainfart will be a permanent part of his record and the irreparable damage he's done to his career is punishment enough.

142 Canadastani  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:46:17pm

re: #111 Terp Mole

Terp Mole - you addressed half of my concern from comment 42, but you missed the second half (re: Charlemagne). You also missed that I was pleased that President Bush did not apologize, but that is beside the point. The US was not working with Shinto Japanese allies while fighting the Shinto Japanese. They did not need to win over (or avoid inflaming) Japanese. Iraqis have found that their co-religionists from Al Qaeda and the Sadr Iranians are brutal, so they are giving the kuffir Americans a second look and supporting the surge. The Iraqis know we're "unbelievers" and they are not going to love us, but still better than the "insurgents". Blatantly disrespecting their religion does not help us keep them on board until we beat our common enemy. Kind of like pointing out the evils of communism (in the least articulate way possbile) while working with Stalin to win WWII. Yes, but...

143 Dr. Shalit  Fri, May 23, 2008 5:42:51pm

re: #2 Shug

The Holey Koran

Shug-

IF - it were his property, legally, NO BAD. As to the situation overall, the shooter is a "G.I." -- there are orders and "R.O.E's." Personally, what I would do with such property would get me the "Banning Stick." That is the problem that the good sniper got us into, especially NOT COLLECTING THE (Controversial) TARGET after practice. That is all.

-S-


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