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Obama Speaks in Iowa

Tue, May 20, 2008 at 7:13:19 pm PDT

An open thread for Barack Obama’s victory speech in Des Moines, Iowa...

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859 comments

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1 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:14:28pm

Change!
Hope!
Yes we can!

I gotta check the liquor cabinet to see if I can keep up tonight.

2 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:14:30pm

Wasn't Iowa a while ago? Am I confused?

3 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:15:07pm

re: #2 goddessoftheclassroom

Wasn't Iowa a while ago? Am I confused?

Iowa, the 54th State one.

4 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:15:40pm

Hot gas, just hot gas. Called Ted Kennedy Ed Kennedy.

5 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:16:48pm

Oh it's all about you!

6 BignJames  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:17:19pm

re: #2 goddessoftheclassroom

They get to vote again......it's part of the Fla/Mich deal....thingy....:)

7 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:17:23pm

Listening to the audience roar, stupidity with enthusiasm.

8 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:17:24pm

Go Hillary!
;)

9 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:17:28pm

change different--that's specific

10 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:18:03pm

Grabin' those Kennedy coat tails. Yup, that'll help our "journey to change America"

This cat is one shameless shill. "This country that we love"

baloney you phony.

11 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:18:05pm
12 opinionated  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:18:09pm

"......path that has failed us for so long"

Really? Is America a failure? Failing? For so long?

13 DesertSage  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:18:12pm

I'm surprised he's taking time out from eating waffles.

14 snowcrash  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:18:12pm

I guess I'm not the only one who just can't get into this speech. I am so tired of this man. UGH.

15 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:18:35pm

I am not sure I can last much longer listening to this jack ass.

16 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:18:37pm

Strength of our diplomacy.... without preconditions!

17 infidel Alan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:18:48pm

It doesn't sound like a large crowd at all.

18 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:19:25pm

YAY! One country! Woo-hoo! (Maybe he'll blow his nose!)

19 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:19:39pm
20 USA  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:19:43pm

White Waffle House, here we come!

21 offendi  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:19:44pm

Yes, yes we can ! And I promise to never hold talks with non-government terrorists, like... well...like... Hillary Clinton. Take that sweetie !

Barry the Messiah soon to follow the proud electoral tradition of George McGovern.

22 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:19:47pm

What soaring rhetoric! I am feeling "bound together" even as we type!

23 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:20:13pm

Young people who've been inspired for the very first time... by ME ME ME ME ME!

Kneel before Zod!

24 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:20:17pm

Opama forign policy, bend over and spread 'em. Our enemies will love us again.

25 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:20:18pm

If he ever said anything even remotely specific about any issue I think I would keel over. This sounds like a Hollywood Movie script speech that Micheal Douglas might deliver.

26 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:20:31pm

re: #22 The Shadow Do

What soaring rhetoric! I am feeling "bound together" even as we type!

Metamucil.

27 joecitizen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:20:33pm

is that a flag pin or a piece of waffle?

28 BignJames  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:20:58pm

re: #18 Occasional Reader

With 57 states! Talk about NEW & IMPROVED!

29 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:21:09pm

I was so empty before. But now there is Obama.

30 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:21:26pm

re: #19 buzzsawmonkey

I want to see flop sweat on Obama's brow.

Is that wrong?

Maybe not wrong, but kind of kinky. Well... maybe kinky. What the hell is "flop sweat"?

31 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:21:32pm

re: #22 The Shadow Do

What soaring rhetoric! I am feeling "bound together" even as we type!

I'm a little "bound" up myself. I'll be back right after I take the Browns to the Super Bowl.

32 RTLM  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:21:35pm

He never looks straight ahead.

(reader)

33 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:21:35pm

Stood for change... you stood for change... then others stood for change ... zzzZZZzzz...

34 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:21:55pm

I hate to break it ya but Louisville didn't stand up for ya!

35 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:22:06pm

I'm sitting for change.

36 lawhawk  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:22:08pm

I know completely OT, but this is just freaky. Two men were found dead in Bergen County today - one of gunshots and discovered in a restaurant parking lot. The second man, found with stab wounds in an apartment complex in Fair Lawn, is literally in my back yard. They're not sure if any foul play in the Fair Lawn death. Other reports are suggesting that the man was despondent over the death of his wife a short time ago.

37 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:22:13pm
38 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:22:13pm

B-Ho change.

39 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:22:16pm

The crowd is doing the woot woot thing.

40 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:22:25pm

re: #30 Occasional Reader

Maybe not wrong, but kind of kinky. Well... maybe kinky. What the hell is "flop sweat"?

Nervous perspiration cause by fear of failure in front of an audience.

41 IslandLibertarian  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:22:49pm

What a shame that the first African-American to get this close to the presidency is this Left-Wing-Double-Talking-Back-pedaling Snapping Poodle.
How could this have happened? It is beyond The Twilight Zone.
.........oh, wait.......Rove? Cheney?........naw....couldn't be..........

NObama!

42 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:22:52pm

re: #36 lawhawk

I know completely OT, but this is just freaky. Two men were found dead in Bergen County today - one of gunshots and discovered in a restaurant parking lot. The second man, found with stab wounds in an apartment complex in Fair Lawn, is literally in my back yard. They're not sure if any foul play in the Fair Lawn death. Other reports are suggesting that the man was despondent over the death of his wife a short time ago.

It's in my backyard also.

43 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:22:59pm

He's tossing Hillary a bone.

44 RTLM  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:23:11pm

Those are amazingly large ears.

45 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:23:13pm

re: #33 Charles

Stood for change... you stood for change... then others stood for change ... zzzZZZzzz...

Have you ever been given change whilst sitting down?

46 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:23:30pm

Cripes! Thats alls I can take, I can't take nomore! *click*

47 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:23:40pm

re: #43 Charles

He's tossing Hillary a bone.

There's a sexual joke there but I'll pass.

48 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:23:48pm

Wait... Hillary "change" too? Change good! I vote for Hillary now!

49 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:23:48pm

re: #43 Charles

He's tossing Hillary a bone.

I hope she buries it.

50 Cognito  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:23:52pm

re: #39 Charles

The crowd is doing the woot woot thing.

He's ready to take over the Arsenio Hall of Power.

51 acapesket123  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:24:00pm

re: #4 maddogg
Mentioned on the last thread this is Ted's last hurrah, he will be dragged out for Obambi until he can't.

Then his extended family will pick up the dreg.

The Kennedy's have their final thrust invested in this election.

There will be a sympathy vote a mile long.

Look at this Obambi speech.

It's not only in poor taste, it's embarassing.

52 Dr. Shalit  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:24:20pm

re: #33 Charles

Charles -

Standing Around for "Change" can become very tiring. Especially when all 'y'all have to do a load of clothes.

-S-

53 joecitizen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:24:35pm

re: #43 Charles

He's tossing Hillary a bone.

which is more than she prolly gets from billyjeff..

54 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:24:36pm

"out bush"?

55 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:24:37pm

This guy is amazingly................mundane.

56 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:24:47pm

He's... running against Bush, again.

57 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:25:04pm

re: #43 Charles

He's tossing Hillary a bone.

My mind's eye is now blind.

58 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:25:21pm

Tough and aggressive diplomacy! Without preconditions, of course.

59 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:25:34pm

"The fear of tough and aggressive diplomacy."

Wow. Orwell would blanche at that one.

60 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:25:38pm

re: #51 acapesket123


There will be a sympathy vote a mile long.

Not in Kentucky! Or in the rest of the south, I'll bet.

61 lawhawk  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:25:40pm

re: #23 Occasional Reader

Young people who've been inspired for the very first time... by ME ME ME ME ME!

Kneel before Zod!

Vote Zod2008.

62 BignJames  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:25:44pm

re: #57 OldLineTexan


Doh!

63 DesertSage  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:25:46pm

That's it, bash McCain. That will get you elected......NOT!

Moron!

64 RTLM  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:25:51pm

Obama,

France, UK, Italy...

65 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:25:54pm

Well, frankly I'm bored. Same old. Same old.

So, how about a thread on that Drudge story about our brilliant D.C. politicos - "House passes bill to sue OPEC over oil prices".

That would be a lot of fun!

66 Killian Bundy  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:26:16pm

Go ahead, tell some more lies about McCain.

/yes we can!

67 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:26:22pm
68 infidel Alan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:26:29pm

"Change, change, change"

69 lawhawk  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:26:31pm

re: #59 Charles

"The fear of tough and aggressive diplomacy."

Wow. Orwell would blanche at that one.

Funny, but I wonder what Metternich and Castlereagh would think of that.

Then again, I doubt that Obama's ever heard of either guy.

70 Jim in Virginia  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:26:34pm

Any idea why Barry is celebrating his Oregon victory in Iowa? Is this another example of his geography skill?

71 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:26:39pm

re: #59 Charles

"The fear of tough and aggressive diplomacy."

Wow. Orwell would blanche at that one.

Terrorists worldwide must be shaking in their boots.

72 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:26:48pm

re: #56 Occasional Reader

He's... running against Bush, again.

Hillary did that earlier. They can't help it. Running against Bush is like Dem crack...

73 Dr. Shalit  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:26:51pm

re: #54 Nevergiveup

"out bush"?

"N-G-U" -

Think he really means "Bush Out!"

-S-

74 joecitizen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:26:58pm

this cat will NEVER be president..I'm just sayin'...

75 RTLM  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:27:06pm

... and Germany.

76 BignJames  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:27:10pm

re: #58 Occasional Reader


What? Strongly worded letters?

77 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:27:17pm

re: #58 Occasional Reader

Tough and aggressive diplomacy! Without preconditions, of course.

What is exactly tough and aggressive diplomacy?

78 Killian Bundy  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:27:39pm

re: #68 infidel Alan

"Change, change, change"

/code word for socialism

79 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:27:50pm

re: #77 Truck Monkey

What is exactly tough and aggressive diplomacy?

An oxymoron.

80 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:27:55pm

Is there ANYTHING this guy is not promising?

81 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:03pm

Turn off the TV, take away the video games...

82 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:08pm

He's going to MAKE the oil companies invest their profits in renewable energy.

MAKE them.

Private companies.

Think about it.

OH, and now he's going to MAKE parents read to their children?

83 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:20pm

re: #74 joecitizen

this cat will NEVER be president..I'm just sayin'...

He be a long legged pimp daddy!

84 Opinionated  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:21pm

Change is whatever you imagine it is.

Obama imagines it as Socialism.

85 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:23pm
86 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:26pm

You first, Barack.

87 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:31pm

re: #79 Roentgen

An oxymoron.

I'm gonna steal that if you don't mind?

88 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:32pm

Chain, chain, chain....Chain of fools.

/channeling ARETHA!

89 DesertSage  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:47pm

I really can't stand this man.
Really!

90 UncleSam  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:53pm

Time to change the channel.

91 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:28:57pm

Think Barack's kids own any video games?

92 OldLineTexan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:29:11pm

re: #77 Truck Monkey

What is exactly tough and aggressive diplomacy?

I think it involves stamping your feet and holding your breath until you turn blue.

93 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:29:20pm

re: #87 Nevergiveup

I'm gonna steal that if you don't mind?

All yours, bro.

94 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:29:21pm

How many TVs do you think are in his mansion?

95 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:29:23pm
96 nigella  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:29:39pm

Watched Fox news coverage for a time and they went over, and over, and over saying Hillary would be Obama's VP. Everyone they talked to they asked. Seems they are trying to make sure she is the VP. My question is do you all think that would be a winning ticket? Besides that I don't think I can take another minute of that "change" routine. Can't he come up with something new........

97 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:29:41pm

he can't add either- Bush has been office for 7 years not 4

98 Killian Bundy  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:29:44pm
Tough diplomacy

/and unilateral disarmament

99 wong fei hung  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:29:48pm

Bear witness, as our Lord, the great "Obama", turns blood into whine.

100 jamgarr  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:29:59pm

The future is a good thing

101 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:30:12pm

re: #67 buzzsawmonkey

You think that's bad? My mother sent me that old "George Bush's grandpa played footsie with the Nazis" stuff today. Like it means anything--especially when the man has little over 7 months to go.

Oh, on CSPAN this morning (what? "geek"? ME?!), I heard a caller declare that Prescott Bush was imprisoned for treason. Who cares about facts?

(I was pleased to note that the Wiki entry for Prescott is remarkably fair.)

102 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:30:23pm

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

103 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:30:25pm

He's telling parents to take away video games?

MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, BHO.

If I want advice on how to raise The Kid, I'll ask my family, my friends and pediatrician.

104 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:30:28pm

CAN WHAT?

105 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:30:31pm

re: #70 Jim in Virginia

Any idea why Barry is celebrating his Oregon victory in Iowa? Is this another example of his geography skill?

Isn't the next primary scheduled for the 53rd state of New East Iowa? Duh....

106 jamgarr  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:30:38pm

"Lost weekend"?

107 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:30:45pm

re: #94 Charles

How many TVs do you think are in his mansion?

twenty seven, more or less.

108 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:30:51pm

re: #94 Charles

How many TVs do you think are in his mansion?


Two channels: PBS and CNN.

109 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:30:53pm

Can't stomach the hussein.
Anyone know the R results from KY?

110 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:31:02pm

Change! Hope! Yes we can! We can change! Hope for a can! Change cans! We can hope! Hope we can! Hope we change! Hope we can change, yes!

111 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:31:11pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

The world according to Garp

112 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:31:12pm

re: #108 MandyManners

Two channels: PBS and CNN.

Okay, three: MSNBC.

113 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:31:14pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

Karl Marx

114 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:31:18pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

Franz Fanon.

115 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:31:36pm

re: #113 Roentgen

Karl Marx

Your hot tonight

116 Favre4Favre  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:31:37pm

I was just down there and was damn near assaulted by those who dont want to answer questions

117 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:31:44pm

re: #102 Charles

Mein Kampf
The Communist Manifesto
The Turner Diaries

Hell, who knows!

118 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:02pm

Thank you lizards for writing such informative yet amusing comments cuz I just can't stomach watching him.

119 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:10pm

Well, in the final vote tally in KY:

Obama: 209,771 out of 701,127 votes, or 29.9191%.

How can anyone believe he will be able to carry the counties in the US that went "red" in the 2004 election?

120 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:10pm

re: #103 MandyManners

He's telling parents to take away video games?

MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, BHO.

If I want advice on how to raise The Kid, I'll ask my family, my friends and pediatrician.

Obama is going to move you out of your comfort zone, Mandy. OR ELSE!

121 snowcrash  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:11pm

No area of my life will be safe from govt. meddling if this man is elected.

122 offendi  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:12pm

I hope Senator Byrd makes a campaign commercial for Obama.

heh. heh.

123 markx  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:15pm

yeah, change is coming...

... and it ain't going to be pretty if O'bambi gets elected.

124 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:25pm

He's yelling now. Selma.

125 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:33pm

He's going to desegregate Selma! Hooray!

126 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:38pm

re: #120 Occasional Reader

Obama is going to move you out of your comfort zone, Mandy. OR ELSE!

He's gonna' move my cheese?

127 Killian Bundy  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:40pm
making phone calls to perfect strangers

/like these guys?

128 Favre4Favre  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:42pm

I hope they like the can of Bull shit spray i deployed, that shit reeks and it was comedy gold!

129 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:45pm

Oh God, he's talking about spirit! Ok Joe, have you seen the Mahdi today? Just wonerin'

130 Locke/Demosthenes  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:32:52pm

He's getting cocky and that will be his undoing. At first it was nothing but hope and change without specifics to try to appeal to as many people as possible while offending no one. Now that he's got the nomination, he's so confident of himself that he's feeling free to show everyone just how radically leftist he is, cause he thinks they like him for it. When you get the nomination, you're supposed to swing to the center. Guess he didn't get the message.

131 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:03pm

He "worked as an organizer"!

I guess he threw lots of Trapper Keepers out of job.

132 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:05pm

Charles, I'm glad YOU can watch him, because he turns my stomach anytime I hear his voice!

133 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:06pm

Demagogue.

134 Charles  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:07pm

Not a single word of substance. Not one.

135 BignJames  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:10pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?


I'm gonna guess....dust.

136 jamgarr  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:14pm

"Lost weekend"!
"Lost weekend"!
"Lost weekend"!

137 markx  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:29pm

re: #125 Occasional Reader

He's going to desegregate Selma! Hooray!

Is that Alabama burning I smell?

138 yochanan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:38pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

dos kapital, collected works of v.i. lenin

139 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:38pm

re: #119 freetoken

WOW! He didn't even break 30% in Kentucky?

140 DesertSage  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:38pm

re: #96 nigella

Watched Fox news coverage for a time and they went over, and over, and over saying Hillary would be Obama's VP. Everyone they talked to they asked. Seems they are trying to make sure she is the VP. My question is do you all think that would be a winning ticket? Besides that I don't think I can take another minute of that "change" routine. Can't he come up with something new........

Hillary will NEVER take the VP position. What's in it for her?
Eight years of playing second fiddle? Only to find herself running again for POTUS in 2016....at 70 years old?

No, Hillary will sabotage Obama this election so she can run against McCain in 2012. She wants the presidency....not the VP slot. She wants real power.

141 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:40pm

re: #125 Occasional Reader

He's going to disintegrate Selma! What did Selma ever do to him?
/

142 Dan G.  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:33:58pm

re: #17 infidel Alan

It doesn't sound like a large crowd at all.

No concert was held prior to the event.

143 joecitizen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:34:01pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?


Lessee..Tom Hayden's autobio,The Decline of Western Civilisation,The Cliffs Notes Bible,shtuff like that..

144 infidel Alan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:34:12pm

What a gasbag! A veritable fountain of leftspeak cliches.

145 lawhawk  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:34:27pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

He reads? No... Obama absorbs....

146 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:03pm
147 Opinionated  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:03pm

Change is really beginning to grate on me.

We've got our issues.

But does America need changing? Is it so bad?

Do you realize with his constant call for changing America he concedes he has the same contempt of America as his wife and Wright.

148 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:12pm

re: #125 Occasional Reader

He's going to desegregate Selma! Hooray!

Wasn't Selma on Good Times with JJ and Rerun...... or was it Rog. I forget. All I know is that Shirley Hemphill was HOT!

149 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:15pm

re: #140 DesertSage

Hillary will NEVER take the VP position. What's in it for her?
Eight years of playing second fiddle? Only to find herself running again for POTUS in 2016....at 70 years old?

No, Hillary will sabotage Obama this election so she can run against McCain in 2012. She wants the presidency....not the VP slot. She wants real power.

Yeah, Bill will really enjoy being third fiddle at the White House.

150 asshander  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:16pm

I think this is on topic about BHO.

From bastiat dot org site commenting on Frederic Bastiat's The Law:

At this point in the original French text, Mr. Bastiat pauses and speaks thusly to all do-gooders and would-be rulers of mankind: "Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."

151 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:19pm

Hillary has shit up her sleeve on B. Hussein, I think that is a guarantee! And he is scared to death of her. And her hubby.

152 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:27pm

Obama knows how to respect the intellect of his constituency.

153 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:29pm

He mentioned Selma. Hum- what is the name of that town that the Rev Wright is gonna soon be integrating?

154 norar  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:30pm

Yep, I'm listening to it now. He is even more of an empty pot than ever. It sounds like he is compaining against Bush. Change is coming, we can, American people can, yadayadayada; nothing about how or when.

I'm more and more amazed at how this preposterous guy got so far.

155 lawhawk  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:55pm

If Obama became President, I'm sure this will come to an end.

156 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:56pm

re: #145 lawhawk

He reads? No... Obama absorbs....

Yes, yes...SpongeObamSquarePants

157 MarkX  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:35:57pm

For some reason Triumph of the Will popped in my head tonight.

/ chilled

158 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:36:25pm

re: #148 Truck Monkey

Wasn't Selma on Good Times with JJ and Rerun...... or was it Rog. I forget. All I know is that Shirley Hemphill was HOT!

Dy-no-mite!

159 nigella  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:36:26pm

Obama is not confident in his abilities and qualifications to be our next President, he believes he is the chosen one. I really think he is so full of himself that he believes all this "savior", Messiah" ,"Uniter", talk from the lowly masses . In his mind he is the second coming and invincible. Scary!

160 wong fei hung  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:36:28pm

I know what's on Obama's bookshelf:

His nuts. That's where Michelle keeps 'em.

161 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:36:41pm
162 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:37:06pm

re: #139 Irene NYC

Well, to two significant digits he got "30%", but not if you go to three digits....

My point is... the Obama campaign keeps saying they can reach out to independents and even Republicans, as a selling point that Obama can do better than Kerry and Gore.

However, it would seem to me that the loss of several key traditional ("FDR") Democrat voters will be more than large enough to offset any gain from "independents".

163 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:37:12pm

Good night, Lizards--I'm noddy off!

164 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:37:15pm

re: #159 nigella

Obama is not confident in his abilities and qualifications to be our next President, he believes he is the chosen one. I really think he is so full of himself that he believes all this "savior", Messiah" ,"Uniter", talk from the lowly masses . In his mind he is the second coming and invincible. Scary!


No, he's just an idiot.

165 Opinionated  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:37:16pm

re: #134 Charles

Not a single word of substance. Not one.

That's because you've heard it all before.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right

166 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:37:18pm

re: #155 lawhawk

If Obama became President, I'm sure this will come to an end.

Yes- if you are in the NYC area starting tomorrow. Be nice to a Sailor. it is Fleet Week. The sailor you meet is someone's son, husband, father, and it might even be me.

167 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:37:25pm

Wow, a CNN talking head just said, and I quote, "he talked substance".

Erm, I must've missed that part.

168 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:38:11pm

Obamabananaramalamadingdong is full of Obama-love. He sees himself as a great orator,able to fill the masses with "hope" and such non-tangibles.

Hitler was pretty good at that crap, too, IIRC.

169 Emery Calame  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:38:14pm

Obama is starting to remind me of Wile E. Coyote, super-GEENius.

He just hasn't crashed his acme "rocketman" suit into the cliff wall yet and had reality stop to look at him for a instant and say "meep meep" just before he plummets to the dessert floor which a "why me?" look on his face.

170 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:38:27pm

Isn't there something good on the idiot box, Like a Hildabeast speech or something...

171 rorschach  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:38:29pm

I scream! You scream! WE ALL SCREAM FOR

change ...ya-a-a-y!
172 IslandLibertarian  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:38:44pm

Obama: A one trick Snapping-Poodle, whom I will from now on call "Sweety".

NObama!

173 NY Nana  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:38:45pm

re: #44 RTLM

Those are amazingly large ears.

Why yes they are!

174 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:38:59pm

I can't see them, but I think ALL the CNN commentators are liberals. Surprise, surprise. And naturally, they're saying the speech was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

175 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:39:07pm

re: #163 goddessoftheclassroom
Sweetdreams to you! :)

176 cincinnati_kid37  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:39:11pm

Go Barack... Go....

If Gore and Kerry can't get the votes, you think this dude....?

Either of them for that matter.

177 yochanan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:39:14pm

re: #166 Nevergiveup

we got a squid in here. hehe well i was born at great lakes navy hosp.

178 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:39:16pm

I've never been prouder of Kentucky. We, here in the Bluegrass, see through the BS that is barack hussein obama.

179 DesertSage  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:39:33pm

re: #167 Occasional Reader

Wow, a CNN talking head just said, and I quote, "he talked substance".

Erm, I must've missed that part.

So you're they guy who watches CNN.
I was wondering who their viewer was.

180 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:39:38pm

BHO reminds me of that incessant bullshit '70s claptrap by John Lennon, "Imagine".

THAT could well be a fitting campaign song for that nit.

181 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:39:47pm

Hey, that guy's got the same Sony camera I do.

182 MarkX  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:39:51pm

re: #161 buzzsawmonkey

Speaking of YouTube, try this version.

I don't know to laugh or cry. But I do think of O'bambi.

183 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:40:18pm

re: #157 MarkX

For some reason Triumph of the Will popped in my head tonight.

/ chilled



Have you see this?

Feeling down right frosty.

184 yochanan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:40:21pm

re: #173 NY Nana

Why yes they are!

he could fly with those

185 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:40:34pm

It's interesting to watch the USSS guys scanning the crowd.

186 Jim in Virginia  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:40:41pm

re: #134 Charles

Not a single word of substance. Not one.

And this is a surprise how?
No cable here but no loss, had I watched him shill I'd have thrown something big and heavy at the TV. Reading comments here I got the gist and the humor without the pain.
Thank yew for the internet, Algore.

187 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:40:44pm

re: #172 IslandLibertarian

NObama!

I've seen that bumper sticker already!

188 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:41:18pm

re: #177 yochanan

we got a squid in here. hehe well i was born at great lakes navy hosp.

That's Officer Squid to you!

189 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:42:10pm

Squids.

190 Dr. Shalit  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:42:12pm

Everyone -

"Aggressive Diplomacy" =

1. STFD

2. STFU

Two things that OBAMA has real problems saying to anyone who HATES AMERICA AS MUCH OR MORE THAN HE DOES - Yup, I said it AND I MEAN IT!

-S-

191 yochanan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:42:20pm

i am thinking of printing stickers that just say NO! with the 'O' being the obama 'O'

192 IslandLibertarian  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:42:41pm

re: #187 6pat6

I've seen that bumper sticker already!

Wait for this one.........

Z
E
R
Obama!

193 Bacchus's daddy  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:42:48pm

re: #95 buzzsawmonkey

Grand Theft Election.

LMAO!

194 Favre4Favre  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:42:54pm

i had to wear my hip waiters

195 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:42:57pm

Yup, that tears it, I'm voting for John McClane.

Yippie kay yay!

196 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:43:12pm

re: #174 Occasional Reader

I can't see them, but I think ALL the CNN commentators are liberals. Surprise, surprise. And naturally, they're saying the speech was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Natch.

Just flipped to Chrissy Matthews and the Olberdink gushing like school girls at a Beatles concert.

197 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:43:16pm

Don't forget his mention of "tiny Iran" as something that is not a threat to the US. Just the knuckelefuck I want as POTUS, yeah, change, go!

198 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:43:37pm

re: #183 jcm


Have you see this?

Feeling down right frosty.

I was feeling well until I watched that clip. Bad music + misplaced optimism--what does this say about the future of Mankind?

199 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:43:48pm

re: #195 Slumbering Behemoth

Yup, that tears it, I'm voting for John McClane.

Yippie kay yay!

And we all know who John McClane will be voting for!

200 nigella  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:43:56pm

Aggressive diplomacy .......can't we use that as a revolving slogan? That's almost as good as getting a strongly worded letter from the UN.

201 NY Nana  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:44:00pm

re: #138 yochanan

You forgot his and Shrillary's idol, the commie Saul Alinsky.

202 jaunte  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:44:01pm

Katherine Lopez at the Corner just got a fresh new email from Barack.
No substance there, either.

"Too many of us have been disappointed by politics and politicians more times than you can count. We've seen promises broken and good ideas drowned in a sea of influence, point-scoring, and petty bickering that has consumed Washington.

Yet, in spite of all the doubt and disappointment — or perhaps because of it — people have stood for change.

Unfortunately, our opponents in the other party continue to embrace yesterday's policies and they will continue to employ yesterday's tactics — they will try to change the subject, and they will play on fears and divisions to distract us from what matters to you and your future. "


[Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

203 yochanan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:44:32pm

re: #188 Nevergiveup

my pops was in both the navy and army
you might have heard of pearl harbor and the c-v 6

i was a army brat. so all i will say is YES SIR

204 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:44:57pm

NObama!re: #194 Favre4Favre

hip waiters

I'm picturing a couple of WAITERS on your hip - must be painful!

205 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:45:04pm

re: #162 freetoken

I got your point and concur.

However, Obama did not break 30% in Kentucky - and it doesn't matter how many digits in you go. Rounding up does not magically give you the votes.
;)

206 MarkX  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:45:33pm

re: #183 jcm

Barf.
Sorry I could only make it :45 into it.

207 Dirk Diggler  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:45:37pm

I can't wait for Barack Hussein to make change.

Ordinary Americans should not be forced to carry around large denominations of bills in their wallets and purses.

208 NY Nana  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:45:39pm

re: #184 yochanan

he could fly with those

/And would save so much money on air fare.

209 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:45:47pm

re: #196 loppyd

Natch.

Just flipped to Chrissy Matthews and the Olberdink gushing like school girls at a Beatles concert.


You could probably power a small city with all that tingling.

210 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:45:53pm

re: #166 Nevergiveup

We New Yorkers are always nice to our sailors!

211 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:45:56pm

re: #198 Roentgen

I was feeling well until I watched that clip. Bad music + misplaced optimism--what does this say about the future of Mankind?

I love the, "basically, ahhhh, I want the war to end."

I'd like to say, "sweetie, we didn't throw this little war, it ends when the other side says it does."

212 Maine's Michael  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:46:11pm

re: #134 Charles

Not a single word of substance. Not one.

But he's got great style.

And, apparently, its all about style.

He is an awesome orator. He has natural talent, AND, he's been studying tapes of MLK and JFK, if you ask me.

A combined BHO/HRC ticket may very well soundly beat McCain, if Obama does not stumble badly with some new scandle/revelation.

Kiss your tax cuts goodbye, folks.

Say hello to Mahmoud Achmadinejad.

Israeli F16I's are warming up their engines.

213 Favre4Favre  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:46:25pm

re: #204 6pat6

but they were cute

214 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:46:37pm

President Obama; December 8, 1941....Japan is tiny compared to Russia and China, they are no threat to the US. I will talk to them without precondition, I'm sure tough and aggressive diplomacy will prevail....

215 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:46:51pm

re: #206 MarkX

Barf.
Sorry I could only make it :45 into it.

Doesn't get any better, if you keep going.

216 LEGION  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:46:52pm

He's speaking? So what, who cares, what can he say that makes any sense? He's full of bull feathers and is an extreme loser. Ignore him. Well, must go clutch my bible and gun and rant about the illegals now.

217 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:46:52pm

re: #209 Occasional Reader

Chrissy Matthews and the Olberdink gushing like school girls

That just paints a horrid mental image!

218 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:47:25pm

re: #213 Favre4Favre

LOL!

219 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:47:27pm

re: #195 Slumbering Behemoth

Yup, that tears it, I'm voting for John McClane.

Yippie kay yay!

He'd definitely get my vote.

(My only beef with him; arguably, the rogue military terrorists could have run Dulles Airport better.)

220 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:47:32pm

re: #207 Dirk Diggler

I can't wait for Barack Hussein to make change.

Ordinary Americans should not be forced to carry around large denominations of bills in their wallets and purses.

Ironically, most people under the age of 30 don't know how to make change.

221 jaunte  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:47:39pm

re: #214 maddogg

What is tough and aggressive diplomacy?
Did he define that?

222 funky chicken  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:47:39pm

[Link: campaignspot.nationalreview.com...]

Free Rock Concert Preceded Big Obama Rally in Portland

Hugh Hewitt just told me that right before Obama addressed that huge crowd in Portland, the indie rock band the Decemberists played a free 45-minute concert. Now, I'm sure Obama would draw a big crowd either way, but wasn't that worth mentioning in the coverage?

From Wikipedia: "Named both in reference to the Russian Decembrist Revolt (which may explain its use of the National Anthem of the Soviet Union as an introduction at many concerts)..." Lovely.

I wonder if they played, "Sixteen Military Wives." The video depicts a bully named "Henry Stowecroft" (Kissinger and Brent?) representing the United States in a grade school model United Nations who declares war on Luxembourg. I kid you not when I tell you the video begins with the bully putting on a flag pin.

Yeah, this guy would be a great Commander in Chief.

223 Syrah  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:48:09pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

Rules for Radicals and Reveille for Radicals.

224 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:48:15pm
Chrissy Matthews and the Olberdink gushing like school girls

Way too much tingling going on there!

225 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:48:22pm

re: #217 6pat6

That just paints a horrid mental image!

I like to think of the off screen cat fights they have....

226 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:48:43pm

re: #221 jaunte

What is tough and aggressive diplomacy?
Did he define that?

Translation: kissing enemy ass and asking them to play nice.

227 jamgarr  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:48:49pm

re: #220 loppyd

Ironically, most people under the age of 30 don't know how to make change.

Not true - they look at the register and give you the coins it tells them to - that's making change.

228 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:49:26pm

re: #209 Occasional Reader

You could probably power a small city with all that tingling.

Producer: Hands above the desk, Matthews.

229 jaunte  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:49:32pm

re: #226 maddogg

I'm guessing he was no student of history.

230 Jim in Virginia  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:49:35pm

re: #211 jcm

I love the, "basically, ahhhh, I want the war to end."

I'd like to say, "sweetie, we didn't throw this little war, it ends when the other side says it does."


I liked "I want the world to like America."

McCain is a lucky politician. If Hillary gets the nomination the Dems will split. If Obama gets it he will make McGovern look good.

231 sngnsgt  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:49:38pm

I'm not sure which is worse, Obama's phoney southern preacher speak or Hillary's screech?

232 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:50:25pm

re: #95 buzzsawmonkey

I can't really do a good job of following the comments here because I don't have the channel y'all are watching (no cable), but I just wanted to let you know I thought your #95 was effing awesome.

Grand Theft Election, that had me laughing hard.

233 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:50:31pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

"The Textbook of French Military Victories"

234 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:50:43pm

Celts lead Pistons by 10 with a little over 6 mins left in the game....

235 quickjustice  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:50:53pm

Invoking "Selma" is code to his black supporters. It's like the word "bamboozled", which was a favorite of Malcolm X's, and which Obama has adopted. Obama is playing on people's fears, to paraphrase Gore.

It may lack substance as far as a white listener is concerned, but it's loaded with "Reverend Wright" types of references that resonate with black voters. I'm afraid the racial polarization of Obama's campaign is complete. The upcoming convention and general election campaign will be the young black guy beating up the old white guy both directly and through surrogates.

We're about to find out if McCain is Bob Dole. Another commentator has noted how ineffective McCain's criticism of Obama on Iran was here (via Instapundit):

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

236 sngnsgt  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:50:56pm

Bob Beckel's eyes are spinning counter-clockwise on Fox. Change!

237 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:51:04pm

Tough an daggressive diplomacy - Obama-style:

"Please be nice to us! We will unconditionally kiss your ass, give you everything you want without condition, and wipe Israel off the planet along with you. Does that sound OK to you, because we don't want to make you mad or anything like that, praise whats-his-name, pork
n'beans be upon him..."

238 yochanan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:51:09pm

TURNED ON DANCING WITH THE STARS could not take the bull from the obamamassiah

239 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:51:10pm

re: #233 Roentgen

"The Textbook of French Military Victories"

"abridged".

240 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:51:37pm

All the newsies are going to sit around and analyze, I don't know, just what? A phantasm?

To most folks, I suspect, this guys persona is a bit blurry? Time to flesh this cat out to John Q. or so methinks. There is time to get this done? What, who is the vehicle?

241 Favre4Favre  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:51:57pm

re: #218 6pat6

Duct tape would make them doable

242 Dr. Shalit  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:52:02pm

re: #231 sngnsgt

"sarge" -

Obama is worse, he looks like the "D" winner. With luck, start worrying about the screech again in 2011.

-S-

243 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:52:09pm

re: #226 maddoggWE will give you what you want just go away! Obama policy....Demoocrats policies!

244 sngnsgt  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:52:12pm

re: #238 yochanan

TURNED ON DANCING WITH THE STARS could not take the bull from the obamamassiah

I just hit mute.

245 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:52:31pm

He has such a pretty voice. It's a pity he has nothing to say.

Here's a tip, Obama. Diplomacy, even the tough and aggressive kind, is worth nothing if the other side doesn't fear either your military or your capitalists.

246 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:52:43pm

Why are they giving Bob Beckel all this free time?

247 yochanan  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:53:03pm

re: #239 maddogg

"abridged".

we have a winner ding ding ding

248 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:53:03pm

re: #243 beachkatieThe perfect storm!

249 Adina in Judea  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:53:03pm

This guy alternates between complete emptiness to utter horror.

He has no other settings.

250 29Victor  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:53:10pm

I missed the memo. Do we drink the Kool-Aid now?

251 Da_Beerfreak  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:53:47pm

Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.
-= DRINK! =-
// {;-)™

252 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:53:53pm
re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

A geography textbook - with the shrinkwrap intact.

253 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:54:10pm

re: #227 jamgarr

re: #220 loppyd

Ironically, most people under the age of 30 don't know how to make change.

Not true - they look at the register and give you the coins it tells them to - that's making change.

And then, hand you the bills, coins, AND the receipt all back to you in one hand! THAT is one thing that really pisses me off, because that is plain laziness in action! They were not trained correctly, nor do they give a shit. When this happens, I insist they count the change back to me CORRECTLY and them place the receipt separately in the bag. I've delayed checkout lines doing this, because they need to do it RIGHT!

254 Dr. Shalit  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:54:30pm

re: #250 29Victor

29Vic -

Depends on who is MIXING the Kool-Aid.

-S-

255 sngnsgt  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:54:35pm

re: #246 Nevergiveup

Why are they giving Bob Beckel all this free time?

I bet Beckel is paying for his moonbat speak by the minute out of his own pocket.

256 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:54:44pm

re: #252 gearhead

A geography textbook - with the shrinkwrap intact.

Yes, including all 57 states.

257 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:56:11pm

re: #256 Roentgen

Yes, including all 57 [islamic] states. Corrected that for you.

258 Dr. Shalit  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:57:08pm

For the "D" Convention - Re-Create (19) '68

For the General Election - Re-Create (19) '28

Look it up and comment.

-S-

259 droolboy  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:57:18pm

I propose a new word: "Obamaton": a zealous, hypnotized follower of the Church of Obama who obediently repeats phrases like "Yes We Can", and can't actually name a single Obama policy position. ex: "the room was filled with Obamatons, gazing lovingly at his holiness Obama and cheering intermittently as he spoke of Change." My apologies if someone's already thought of this one.

260 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:57:40pm

re: #214 maddogg

President Obama; December 8, 1941....Japan is tiny compared to Russia and China, they are no threat to the US. I will talk to them without precondition, I'm sure tough and aggressive diplomacy will prevail....

You know what? That is the perfect rejoinder to BHO's claim that we must talk to our enemies and that we have in the past. The Japanese delegation was in Washington waiting for an audience when the first bombs were blasting Pear Harbor and murdering almost three thousand Americans (by the way, my Mom was among the wounded).

261 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:58:09pm

re: #251 Da_Beerfreak

Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.
-= DRINK! =-
// {;-)™

see you tomorrow! Need more sleep! I don't make any sense any more!

262 snowcrash  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:58:18pm

I'm kinda demoralized about this whole Obama phenomenon. The huge crowds, the adoration by the media. It's weird. At least spell check doesn't recognize Obama.

263 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:58:25pm

re: #243 beachkatie

WE will give you what you want just go away! Obama policy....Demoocrats policies!

That strategy worked out really well for the Romans, those Gauls had a lot of gall to come back and sack the place. They had their own version of change.

264 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:58:38pm

re: #260 The Shadow Do

As was my father-in-law, RIP.

265 Roentgen  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:58:40pm

re: #257 6pat6

Yes, including all 57 [islamic] states. Corrected that for you.

I think these are the states that came into being using "tough and aggressive diplomacy" as a defense.

266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:59:11pm

pOOp.

267 Alouette  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:59:13pm

re: #102 Charles

What's on Barack Obama's bookshelf?

The Audacity of Hope by Barack Obama
Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama
Hopes & Dreams the Story of Barack Obama by Steve Dougherty
Barack Obama: An American Story by Roberta Edwards and Ken Call
Biography - Barack Obama by Barack Obama
Obama: From Promise to Power by David Mendell
Barack Obama: This Improbable Quest by John K. Wilson

268 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:59:33pm

re: #265 Roentgen

Against their own people

269 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:59:35pm

re: #266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

pOOp.

Feel better?

270 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 7:59:41pm

re: #70 Jim in Virginia

Any idea why Barry is celebrating his Oregon victory in Iowa? Is this another example of his geography skill?

He's going back to the womb. It's warm there.

271 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:00:08pm

re: #269 gearhead

Part of happiness is a good poop.

272 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:00:28pm

re: #167 Occasional Reader

Wow, a CNN talking head just said, and I quote, "he talked substance".

Yes, let's talk substance. I love substance! Change, and substance! Substance, substance, substance! In my adminstration, I think Rev. Wright will be my secretary of substance! We will bring substance to everyone in the world! Yeaaaarrghhhh!

273 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:00:49pm

re: #260 The Shadow Do

You know what? That is the perfect rejoinder to BHO's claim that we must talk to our enemies and that we have in the past. The Japanese delegation was in Washington waiting for an audience when the first bombs were blasting Pear Harbor and murdering almost three thousand Americans (by the way, my Mom was among the wounded).

Obama was too young to see "Tora! Tora! Tora! when it came out....

274 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:00:59pm

re: #272 itellu3times

Secretary of Substances, maybe?

275 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:01:11pm

re: #264 6pat6

As was my father-in-law, RIP.

God bless, 6pat

276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:01:55pm

re: #272 itellu3times

pOOp! That's a substance.

277 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:01:55pm

re: #275 The Shadow Do

I miss the man. He was 76 when he passed. Spoke very little about Pearl.

278 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:01:59pm

re: #271 6pat6

Part of happiness is a good poop.

Or a warm gun. Handle both with care.

279 dahveed  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:02:11pm

re: #255 sngnsgt

I bet Beckel is paying for his moonbat speak by the minute out of his own pocket.

I just hope Beckel is an advisor to Obama. I mean he did real well when Mondale ran for President.

280 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:02:17pm

re: #278 gearhead

Indeed

281 Dirk Diggler  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:02:29pm

loppyd,

Celts lead Pistons by 10 with a little over 6 mins left in the game....

I didn't know you were a Celtics fan loppy.

282 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:02:44pm

Well, it is 8:02 on the west coast... but the Oregon SoS so far has not kept their promise...

283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:02:54pm

re: #281 Dirk Diggler

Thanks for the reminder. TV? ON!

284 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:03:00pm

re: #263 maddogg

That strategy worked out really well for the Romans, those Gauls had a lot of gall to come back and sack the place. They had their own version of change.

Thankyou maddogg... Thats the way i think Obama Will handle The muslim country's!

285 6pat6  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:03:04pm

I'm outta here. Night, all.

286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:03:06pm

G'night Jim Bob!

287 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:03:27pm

re: #271 6pat6

Part of happiness is a good poop.

Hoo boy, am I going to go where I should not -
There is nothing so over rated as good sex, or as under rated as a good crap.

/old guy

288 RTLM  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:03:42pm

Hey that was a slick graphic on Fox News.

289 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:03:48pm

Oregon returns.re: #282 freetoken

Well, it is 8:02 on the west coast... but the Oregon SoS so far has not kept their promise...

I'm watching too.

290 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:04:04pm

re: #285 6pat6

I'm outta here. Night, all.


Sweetdreams to you!

291 Syrah  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:04:33pm

Is Arlen Specter angling for a cabinet post in an Obama Administration?

292 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:04:44pm

re: #285 6pat6

I'm outta here. Night, all.

G'night.

293 maddogg  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:04:46pm

re: #287 The Shadow Do

Hoo boy, am I going to go where I should not -
There is nothing so over rated as good sex, or as under rated as a good crap.

/old guy


Either you don't know how to screw, or I don't know how to crap.

294 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:05:10pm

re: #287 The Shadow Do

Hoo boy, am I going to go where I should not -
There is nothing so over rated as good sex, or as under rated as a good crap.

/old guy


Jeeezz!

295 Dr. Shalit  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:05:11pm

re: #264 6pat6

#'s 260 and 264 -

And My Uncle was at Pearl, an Army Draftee, luckily not hurt or killed. Funniest thing is that the Japanese Diplomats may NOT have been told about the attack either. Kurusu & Co. were allowed to return to Japan after war was declared - much like the Bin-Ladens and Saudi Royals were in mid Sept., 2001. Let mesay no more at this point. I am tired and turning in, enough silliness for one night from me.

-S-

296 sngnsgt  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:05:14pm

re: #279 dahveed

I just hope Beckel is an advisor to Obama. I mean he did real well when Mondale ran for President.

LOL! Yea, Beckel, Beckel, Beckel!

297 Favre4Favre  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:05:19pm

re: #270 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Sounds like an abortion is in order

298 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:05:31pm

re: #253 6pat6

And then, hand you the bills, coins, AND the receipt all back to you in one hand! THAT is one thing that really pisses me off, because that is plain laziness in action! They were not trained correctly, nor do they give a shit. When this happens, I insist they count the change back to me CORRECTLY and them place the receipt separately in the bag. I've delayed checkout lines doing this, because they need to do it RIGHT!

My HS and college (and sometimes present when I need extra cash) was at a farmstand/nursery. We were/are required to make change on our own and count it back to the customer. When I'm at a store I mentally count the change back before the clerk has had the time to look at the register telling her/him what the change should be.

And God forbid you give them the coins after they have punched in "amount tendered." LOL

299 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:05:36pm
300 RTLM  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:05:48pm

Mike Barron:

Eugene, OR.

(Compulsory vegetarianism)

lol

301 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:05:49pm

Did I inadvertently turn this into the poop thread, or did Obama?

302 lummox  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:05:51pm

Ahhhh! The audacity of bullshit.

303 Attaboid  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:06:12pm

I thought that read "Obama Spreads in Iowa.
/need sleep.

304 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:06:27pm

re: #301 gearhead

Did I inadvertently turn this into the poop thread, or did Obama?

Both! :)

305 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:07:04pm

re: #303 Attaboid

I thought that read "Obama Spreads in Iowa.
/need sleep.


Sweetdreams!:)

306 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:07:25pm

re: #281 Dirk Diggler

loppyd,


I didn't know you were a Celtics fan loppy.

Total bandwagon. LOL

They just won!

307 Mars Needs Neocons  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:07:50pm

OT

Holy crap has anyone here seen this yet? Wow! I've always known the press and the left are damaging us in the war, but to have it spelled out by Harvard sociologists no less.

Yes, You Really ARE Encouraging the Terrorists

308 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:08:32pm

Anyone remember the game Wing Commander? When you shoot down one of the Kilrathi fighters you hear "Noooooooooaaaagh!"

Iowa-- another victory for our enemies in Gaza and Teheran.

309 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:09:04pm

re: #304 beachkatie

Both! :)

The boys learned a new word in day care.

Poo-poo-head.

It's very entertaining how many ways 3 and 4 year old boys can figure out how to say the word while promising not to say it.

Dad, barely in control didn't help.

310 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:09:22pm

Please Mr. Obama, can I feed my kids all they want? Please?

311 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:09:22pm

re: #303 Attaboid

I thought that read "Obama Spreads in Iowa.
/need sleep.

I hope that's not the last thing you think about before you fall asleep.

312 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:09:39pm
313 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:09:41pm

re: #277 6pat6

I miss the man. He was 76 when he passed. Spoke very little about Pearl.

My mom, a newlywed, was at Pearl not knowing my Dad had been just sent to Clark Field in the Philipines while she was in transit. Mom didn't say much either, but a relative saved a newspaper that told the tale. After suffering a concussion she worked for months as a hospital aid waiting for evacuation. There is more to the story, but I get a bit misty when I think of her and the remarkable life she lived.

314 sngnsgt  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:10:23pm

Operation chaos!

315 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:10:28pm

re: #305 beachkatie
It's almost WEDNESDAY! YEA< MID WEEK! Sweet dreams lizards! memorial weekend is a coming!

316 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:10:51pm

re: #309 jcm

The boys learned a new word in day care.

Poo-poo-head.

It's very entertaining how many ways 3 and 4 year old boys can figure out how to say the word while promising not to say it.

Dad, barely in control didn't help.

My brother's youngest two (4 & 6) are obsessed with the word poop, too. LOL

317 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:11:15pm

re: #293 maddogg

Either you don't know how to screw, or I don't know how to crap.

Forgot how to screw?

318 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:11:15pm

Is it OK if I eat this sandwich?

319 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:11:29pm

re: #316 loppyd

My brother's youngest two (4 & 6) are obsessed with the word poop, too. LOL

Perhaps they have Coprolalia?

320 Jefiner  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:11:34pm

He is an effeminate, metrosexual girlie-man!

And Michelle is the only one with cojones in the house . . .

This he-female will get us all killed with his blathering desires to confer with those who would destroy this country.

321 MacGregor  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:11:36pm

I turned the channel - it was just:
change change change bla change change hope change bla change hope change change change bla change change change change.

Just ridiculous.

322 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:12:32pm

re: #319 loggiedog

Perhaps they have Coprolalia?

Do I dare ask?

323 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:13:08pm

I'm decompressing from Barry by watching the beginning of Miami Vice again. This is really a damn good movie.

324 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:13:08pm

Should we take the CO2 out of soft drinks and beer, Mr. Obama?

It's a greenhouse gas you know.

America could Change and lead the way.

325 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:13:33pm

re: #294 beachkatie

Jeeezz!

OK, I'm laughing now. Sorry about that.

326 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:13:44pm

It's 11:00?

Holy poop!

Must go get my beauty sleep.

Have a good night, Lizard Nation!

327 Dirk Diggler  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:13:49pm

loppyd,

Total bandwagon. LOL

They just won!

Hey at least you're honest about it.

My money is on the Celts being matched up with San Antonio in the Finals. The Spurs may be the TV ratings equivalent of valium, but they've got the talent and the veteran experience to win it all again, and they will.

328 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:14:12pm

Ohhh, I over ate.


O I
_____
8

329 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:14:25pm

re: #322 loppyd

Do I dare ask?

Mozart was thought to have Coprolalia and Tourettes and he supposedly had an obsession with defecation.

330 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:15:00pm

re: #316 loppyd

My brother's youngest two (4 & 6) are obsessed with the word poop, too. LOL

My boys are 4 and 6, too. Any bodily function will do.

My wife walked in on them urinating at the same time. "Look, mom, we're making an X!"

331 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:15:01pm

re: #312 savage_nation

for me to poop on!


HEH HEH! That was cute! Sweet dreams savage_nation!

332 anotherindyfilmguy  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:15:17pm

re: #65 Irene NYC

If it somehow passes the veto and gets into law our own courts will throw it out. Essentially we do not have jurisdiction over other nations... perhaps some of our tax dollars would be well spent on civics classes for the "leadership" in Corngress and the Blouse...

333 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:15:47pm

8:15 and no OR results.
15 min late.

334 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:15:55pm

Anorexia for America

335 Dirk Diggler  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:16:11pm

OR,

I'm decompressing from Barry by watching the beginning of Miami Vice again. This is really a damn good movie.

Michael Mann is the man.

336 infidel Alan  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:16:17pm

Fox called Oregon for Obama about 10 minutes ago.

337 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:16:33pm

re: #318 Ojoe

Is it OK if I eat this sandwich?


Poor Ojoe, Sweetdreams to you!

338 Dan G.  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:16:44pm

re: #324 Ojoe

Should we take the CO2 out of soft drinks and beer, Mr. Obama?

It's a greenhouse gas you know.

America could Change and lead the way.

Don't give them any ideas...

339 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:17:05pm

re: #336 infidel Alan

Well they better go on a fast in Oregon then.

340 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:17:12pm

re: #308 loggiedog

Anyone remember the game Wing Commander? When you shoot down one of the Kilrathi fighters you hear "Noooooooooaaaagh!"

Iowa-- another victory for our enemies in Gaza and Teheran.

Shirley, you can't be serious.

341 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:17:16pm

re: #336 infidel Alan

Since he has 61% of the vote so far, a pretty reasonable idea.

342 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:17:24pm

re: #332 anotherindyfilmguy

The stupidity that passes for political action in this country is just not to be believed.

343 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:17:35pm

re: #336 infidel Alan

Fox called Oregon for Obama about 10 minutes ago.

It's a given.
But OR Sec. State has nothing.

344 loppyd  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:17:37pm

re: #327 Dirk Diggler

loppyd,


Hey at least you're honest about it.

My money is on the Celts being matched up with San Antonio in the Finals. The Spurs may be the TV ratings equivalent of valium, but they've got the talent and the veteran experience to win it all again, and they will.

I'd like to see them play the Lakers for old times...

Now I have to go to bed and try to stop the word CHANGE from ringing around in my head.

Nighty night!

345 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:17:37pm
346 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:17:59pm

re: #335 Dirk Diggler

OR,

Michael Mann is the man.

I'm also impressed that the script does not talk down to the viewer. They assume you know what a "FLIR image" is; and, speaking of Colombia, that you know what the "AUC" is. F'rinstance.

347 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:18:08pm

re: #337 beachkatie

And to you.

Actually I should do some work and stop goofing off on this fun website.

Perhaps back later.

348 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:18:32pm

re: #222 funky chicken

The bastard shares the stage with something like that, and then has the gall to invoke Reagan in his speeches.

349 brainwizard73  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:18:39pm

Russert on MSNBC...Matthews asks him what it will take to have regular people to support Obama...

Russert says that the American people want to know that Obama loves this country, that he is proud of this country and that he sees the nation's goodness.

ROFLMAO!

Two items:

First, since Obama has more money than Soros to broadcast his message, the fact that he has to convince Americans he loves this country shows you that there is something really wrong.

Second, it's clear to many people (including Clinton supporters) that this man doesn't love this nation...he only loves what he thinks he can do to this nation.

350 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:18:42pm

re: #340 really grumpy big dog Johnson

I don't know, any victory for Obama is one step closer to a victory for Gaza, a sign that the mindset of America is appeasement and a willingness to talk with the dregs of the earth.

351 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:18:44pm

re: #343 jcm

The change the links on you... yes, now the SoS is giving out numbers, but the link you have is the one for the pre-8pm web page. Go up their hiearchy, then pick the "unofficial results" link.

352 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:18:50pm

re: #342 Irene NYC

The stupidity that passes for political action in this country is just not to be believed.


I absolutely agree!

353 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:18:53pm

This spinoff needs more pluses.

354 anotherindyfilmguy  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:19:15pm

What's really interesting is that not long before calling it for obmam on Fox the analyst there noted that the only counties that had been reported were the superlib campus/ultra left part of the state etc. Wouldn't it be shrillarious if after all the other counties in the state are counted she splits it with him instead?

355 nyc redneck  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:19:28pm

he's not going to get away w/ his stupid, boring answers for everything when mccain comes at him.
that's not going to work no matter how much the msm tries to spin his genius concepts. of 'hope' and 'change'.
he's going to implode and really complain bitterly abt. it.

356 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:20:07pm
357 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:20:22pm

re: #351 freetoken

The change the links on you... yes, now the SoS is giving out numbers, but the link you have is the one for the pre-8pm web page. Go up their hiearchy, then pick the "unofficial results" link.


Their server is in meltdown.

358 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:21:09pm

re: #354 anotherindyfilmguy

Is not the rest of Oregon pretty darn empty? Sure, Obama will do well in Portland and Corvalis, but the rest of the state is very rural, is it not?

359 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:21:56pm
360 Dan G.  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:22:02pm

"...a majority of the pledged delegates, but not a majority among all delegates."

Fake milestone... the fight goes on.

361 anotherindyfilmguy  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:22:17pm

re: #355 nyc redneck

Assuming he still gets the nomination... the problem is when you go over the mega states were shrillary won and still had to split off delegates to him. Those are the states he will not carry that have to be carried to win. I suspect that even if Obamam takes every remaining delegate the clinots will still try to "steal" the election between now/at the demvention...

362 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:22:24pm

re: #350 loggiedog

I don't know, any victory for Obama is one step closer to a victory for Gaza, a sign that the mindset of America is appeasement and a willingness to talk with the dregs of the earth.

Obama won Iowa ages ago. Get current. That was before he revealed to be the man he is. And who gives a damn about "victory for Gaza"?

It's their prime handler who is the real issue here.

363 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:22:25pm

re: #357 jcm

Well, politico.com is still going strong, they now have the totals at 60/40 with 28% of precincts in.

364 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:22:27pm

re: #358 freetoken

Is not the rest of Oregon pretty darn empty? Sure, Obama will do well in Portland and Corvalis, but the rest of the state is very rural, is it not?

Go out to Hood River and you'll see more of the same. Basically a majority of the state is like that, save for the eastern portions near Idaho and some of the Mormon areas.

365 beachkatie  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:22:59pm

re: #353 Killgore Trout

This spinoff needs more pluses.


Sweetdream killgore trout! I know your tried if you sand floors last night , I have done that myself to a livingroom and bedroom! Never again!

366 indythinker  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:23:18pm

Republican platform: squeak crack bang splat

Democratic platform: Obama will be president, and so all our problems will be solved.

367 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:23:47pm

re: #354 anotherindyfilmguy

What's really interesting is that not long before calling it for obmam on Fox the analyst there noted that the only counties that had been reported were the superlib campus/ultra left part of the state etc. Wouldn't it be shrillarious if after all the other counties in the state are counted she splits it with him instead?

All mail-in vote. Geography isn't an issue.

368 Dirk Diggler  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:24:00pm
I'm also impressed that the script does not talk down to the viewer. They assume you know what a "FLIR image" is; and, speaking of Colombia, that you know what the "AUC" is. F'rinstance.

"Hey Ivan. My brother...How long you been working for the FBI?"

369 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:24:58pm

re: #368 Dirk Diggler

And that scene stars one of my favorite firearms... the Barrett.

Great guns in this movie.

370 jaunte  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:25:10pm

Joe Lieberman on Obama:

"Earlier this year, Senator Kyl and I introduced the resolution in the Senate which called on the administration to impose economic sanctions on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard that is training and equipping Iraqis that are going back into Iraq and killing American soldiers, hundreds of them.
Senator McCain and Senator Clinton voted for that resolution. About three-quarters of the Senate did. Senator Obama did not, said it was saber-rattling. It was the exact opposite of that; it was economic sanctions. Had nothing to do with the military."


[Link: transcripts.cnn.com...]

371 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:26:11pm

re: #366 indythinker

Republican platform: squeak crack bang splat

Democratic platform: Obama will be president, and so all our problems will be solved.

There isn't a Republican platform, there's a McCain platform. But I already knew that you didn't know that. Your panties are around your ankles.

372 nyc redneck  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:26:50pm

re: #356 savage_nation

I cant wait to see that!

i think it's going to be incredible. this loser is told by everyone around him he has what it takes to be potus and he must believe it by now and expect it to happen. it's not going to be pretty when reality sets in and he's back to being a 'community organizer', (what ever that is)

373 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:27:29pm

re: #299 buzzsawmonkey

Truly inspired. Keep that one at the ready should the dem. super-delegates pull an end around and snatch up the nomination for whomever. Could make for a good parody.

374 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:28:28pm
375 nyc redneck  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:29:04pm

re: #361 anotherindyfilmguy

Assuming he still gets the nomination... the problem is when you go over the mega states were shrillary won and still had to split off delegates to him. Those are the states he will not carry that have to be carried to win. I suspect that even if Obamam takes every remaining delegate the clinots will still try to "steal" the election between now/at the demvention...

lol, i don;t see her quitting either. she does not look like she's abt. to give up.

376 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:29:17pm

re: #362 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Obama won Iowa ages ago. Get current. That was before he revealed to be the man he is. And who gives a damn about "victory for Gaza"?

It's their prime handler who is the real issue here.

When you say prime handler what are you talking about? I guess I don't recall which states are remaining for the primaries. I recall Ohio, but perhaps I missed Iowa. Anyway, the fact that some states like Oregon still vote for Obama even with his relationship to the reverend shows how twisted the situation is. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people worry about the fact that Obama is a choice candidate for the riff-raff in the Middle East, since they know he likes to talk and negotiate. Negotiation is the last thing we need. Likewise, our current administration is also foolish enough to supply enriched Uranium to Saudi Arabia.

377 anotherindyfilmguy  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:30:53pm

From the "unofficial results page":

Democrat Votes Percent
_________________ _________________
Hillary Clinton 87,639 38.20%
Barack Obama 140,582 61.28%
Write-in Votes 1,186 0.52%
_________________ _________________
Totals: 229,407 100%


Looks like she really lost Oregon... flip flop of Kentucky...

378 indythinker  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:31:54pm

Hillary won't take a VP spot under Obama. She knows if this guy gets in office the country will be in a tailspin after four years and the Democratic Party will get the blame. The best she can hope for is beating Obama now, or second-best hoping McCain beats Obama and then running in 2012. If Obama wins it all, she can't run again until 2016.

379 Lively  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:33:11pm

What does "Obama crosses delegate threshold" mean? Someone clue me in. (via Drudge headline)

380 cblesz  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:34:05pm

The man makes me want to vomit. Plain and simple.

381 Dirk Diggler  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:34:20pm

OR,

And that scene stars one of my favorite firearms... the Barrett.

Great guns in this movie.

My only problem was the Chinese broad playing the Colombian money launder. I couldn't understand a word she said throughout the entire movie. In addition, she and Colin Farrell had zero romantic chemistry.

The movie would have been better served with an authentic South American actriz in that role.

382 Lively  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:34:45pm

Dear Charles,

If Obama wins the presidency, you might have to be him in your spellcheck dictionary.

383 cblesz  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:35:05pm

re: #379 Lively

What does "Obama crosses delegate threshold" mean? Someone clue me in. (via Drudge headline)

I have had it with Drudge. He is so in the tank on the left it is pathetic.

384 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:35:20pm

First Flipper, now Waffler. Who is next on the Democratic side, after Obama, a Wobbler?

385 Macker  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:35:23pm

re: #378 indythinker

By then she'll be a Grand Old Hag!

386 nyc redneck  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:35:57pm

re: #376 loggiedog

When you say prime handler what are you talking about? I guess I don't recall which states are remaining for the primaries. I recall Ohio, but perhaps I missed Iowa. Anyway, the fact that some states like Oregon still vote for Obama even with his relationship to the reverend shows how twisted the situation is. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people worry about the fact that Obama is a choice candidate for the riff-raff in the Middle East, since they know he likes to talk and negotiate. Negotiation is the last thing we need. Likewise, our current administration is also foolish enough to supply enriched Uranium to Saudi Arabia.

well that's the problem, osama likes to 'talk and negotiate' too much. that's kind of obnoxious, coming from a person who is not known for deep thinking on substantive issues. (hope and change will be the butt of many jokes for m.e. tyrants.)

387 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:35:59pm

re: #378 indythinker

I think you have a very good analysis.

Who the hell would want to be the second coming of Mondale?

There is no doubt in my mind, she would not accept the VP slot if offered.

I would go as far to say, she realizes, you can't go as far to the left as he is claiming to go, and survive beyond 4 years.

While I hated Bill, he was good at wetting his finger, and gaging the direction of political winds, and letting his policy float in the same direction.

388 Macker  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:37:18pm

re: #384 loggiedog

First Flipper, now Waffler. Who is next on the Democratic side, after Obama, a Wobbler?

More like a Weeble. You know, Weebles wobble but they don't fall down?

389 Dirk Diggler  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:37:21pm

Later folks. I'm going to bed.

390 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:37:22pm

re: #383 cblesz

I think Drudge realizes he makes more money by having numerous types check into his site.

I never took him for being right leaning.

391 toomanysnax  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:38:19pm

Missed some of it. The lofty speechifying sent me running to the bathroom, hugging the bowl as O'Bama finished up.

392 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:38:46pm

re: #387 formercorpsman


While I hated Bill, he was good at wetting his finger, and gaging the direction of political winds, and letting his policy float in the same direction.

Which is precisely why he didn't take the shot on bin Laden when we had it.

393 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:38:55pm

re: #381 Dirk Diggler

In addition, she and Colin Farrell had zero romantic chemistry.

I'm sure you think you could have done better. Than she did.

bwaaaahahahaha

(Hey, you opened the door)

394 Dan G.  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:39:02pm

re: #379 Lively

Nothing... he has a majority of the "pledged" delegates (not all delegates)... he's trying to milk it (marketing style) for all its worth.

395 Lively  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:39:22pm

re: #383 cblesz

I have had it with Drudge. He is so in the tank on the left it is pathetic.

I know fo' sho' he doesn't want Hillary to win because he was the one who broke the Monica Lewinsky story. He doesn't want to meet Hillary's wrath.

396 indythinker  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:39:56pm

re: #371 really grumpy big dog Johnson

There isn't a Republican platform, there's a McCain platform. But I already knew that you didn't know that. Your panties are around your ankles.

In Obama's speech he made one correct point: the Republican party platform is a disaster.

McCain's platform is only a slight improvement.

My point was that while Obama was right on that, it was ironic for him to say that because the entire platform of the Democrats is based on getting Obama into office. After that happens, they have no plan whatsoever.

Our country is heading for trouble.

397 Mich-again  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:42:50pm

re: #382 Lively

Dear Charles,

If Obama wins the presidency, you might have to be him in your spellcheck dictionary.

Nope. Don't do it. Moonbat isn't even in the spellcheck dictionary yet. Heck for that matter spellcheck isn't in it.

398 profitsbeard  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:44:49pm

re: #59 Charles

"The fear of tough and aggressive diplomacy."

Wow. Orwell would blanche at that one.

Goddamnit, Mahmoud, read my entire memoranda or I will change the lunch protocol!

And, you Assad, sit up straight! This is diplomacy, not a "coffee"!

Tough.

Aggressive.

Obama.

399 Mich-again  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:45:26pm

re: #396 indythinker

the Republican party platform is a disaster.

Can you tell me what it is? I'll be pulling the GOP straight ticket lever just like I have for every election since 1984 and I was wondering whats in the platform these days.

400 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:46:06pm

re: #384 loggiedog

First Flipper, now Waffler. Who is next on the Democratic side, after Obama, a Wobbler?

Category: Be Careful What You Ask For.

I hear that those who wobble don't often fall down easily.

401 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:46:48pm

re: #392 gearhead

I would have to disagree.

Bill is the utmost political animal.

He was a child of the 60's, and he would never have the stomach to fight a real war, because real war is hell, unpopular, and you take political gambles in war.

I would say, the reason Bin Laden was never a big player, is because the media never acknowledged a true islamic threat.

We had intelligence during Somalia, that it was a problem.

However, his aim was to be a domestic President, avoid international policy, and run the table that way.

Plus, we became so caught up in home grown militias, don't ask don't tell, Milsovich, and Lewinski, who knew there were guys planning serious destruction?

Pretty much everyone here could see it. His constituency dis not.

They still refuse to.

402 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:47:04pm

Good night.

403 Lively  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:48:05pm

Hitting the sack too. G'night lizards.

404 X-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:48:49pm

re: #398 profitsbeard

Respect the Lunch Protocol or die:)

405 Mich-again  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:49:12pm

Geraldine Ferraro looks downright menacing these days.

406 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:50:05pm

re: #400 Slumbering Behemoth

Category: Be Careful What You Ask For.

I hear that those who wobble don't often fall down easily.

That's actually quite scary. Maybe "tripper" (as in drugged-up president) or "Muffler" (one that enforces political correctness across the board by silencing those with political opinions that exceed a standard deviation) would also be frightening.

407 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:51:10pm

re: #36 lawhawk

I know completely OT, but this is just freaky. Two men were found dead in Bergen County today - one of gunshots and discovered in a restaurant parking lot. The second man, found with stab wounds in an apartment complex in Fair Lawn, is literally in my back yard. They're not sure if any foul play in the Fair Lawn death. Other reports are suggesting that the man was despondent over the death of his wife a short time ago.

Let me get this straight: He died of stab wounds but they aren't sure it's foul play?

Reminds me of a cartoon I saw once. A sheriff, talking to a bunch of good ol' boys. At their feet is the body of a black man, hands tied behind his back and a noose around his neck. Several knives are stuck in various parts of his body. Gunshot wounds are evident big time. The caption: "Yep, boys, worst case of suicide I've ever seen."

I live in a relatively quiet town. I think I'd be looking for either a bottle or the extra magazines for my rifle if somebody found a body like that in my neighborhood.

408 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:51:46pm

re: #405 Mich-again

I thought Geraldie looked terrific and didn't mince any words. I don't always agree with her but she's got balls.
;)

409 Mich-again  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:53:03pm

re: #407 Steffan

Reminds me of a cartoon I saw once.

Where did you see that vile crap? The Stormfront Newsletter?

410 bosforus  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:53:33pm

McCain with a 72 point lead in Oregon! Unbelievable!
/

411 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:53:36pm

re: #169 Emery Calame

Obama is starting to remind me of Wile E. Coyote, super-GEENius.

He just hasn't crashed his acme "rocketman" suit into the cliff wall yet and had reality stop to look at him for a instant and say "meep meep" just before he plummets to the dessert floor which a "why me?" look on his face.

Just be patient. In six months he'll be meeting that cliff face. I just hope he makes the accordion noise after impact.

412 experiencedtraveller  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:53:36pm

Oregon is a wonderful place. The local environment is divided by the Cascade Range into spectacular regions of great natural variety.

413 Mich-again  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:54:16pm

re: #408 Irene NYC

I don't always agree with her but she's got balls.

I think she would bitchslap Obama if they ever had a street fight.

414 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:54:23pm

re: #61 lawhawk

Vote Zod2008.

Zod's a wuss. He's worse than Obama.

Vote Cthulhu 2008.

415 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:55:16pm

re: #412 experiencedtraveller

Why is it that all the lush or beautiful places (Oregon, Vermont, MA) all have the biggest cases of moonbats with BDS?

416 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:55:49pm

re: #409 Mich-again

Where did you see that vile crap? The Stormfront Newsletter?

Truth to tell, I think it was "Hustler." I freely admit I didn't read it for the articles.

It was also about 30 years ago, if memory serves me correctly....

417 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:55:55pm

Interesting results in some OR counties... so far in one county they are tied at 1676 votes, in another county Clinton leads by 4 votes... it's pretty tight out in hicksville, OR.

418 bosforus  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:56:04pm

Why is Usher wearing boxing gloves behind Clinton?

419 Midwestprof  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:56:27pm

re: #399 Mich-again

Can you tell me what it is? I'll be pulling the GOP straight ticket lever just like I have for every election since 1984 and I was wondering whats in the platform these days.

"Me, too! Me, too. We want change, too, only different. We hope to hope, too."

Check out Rep. Tom Cole's great ideas, entitled, "Republican Solutions and a Positive Agenda" at the NRCC Blog. Pay especial attention to the comments that follow.

420 Mich-again  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:58:15pm

re: #415 loggiedog

Why is it that all the lush or beautiful places (Oregon, Vermont, MA) all have the biggest cases of moonbats with BDS?

A: Rich white people

421 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:58:34pm
422 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:59:06pm

re: #415 loggiedog

Why is it that all the lush or beautiful places (Oregon, Vermont, MA) all have the biggest cases of moonbats with BDS?

Being a Utopian sucks if you are stuck in Dubuque.

423 infidel Alan  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:59:28pm

re: #420 Mich-again

A: Rich white people

Rich stupid white people

424 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 8:59:40pm

re: #420 Mich-again

Probably all the places where life is good and where people take a non-confrontational attitude since all they care about is preserving their own tiny slice of the planet with organic produce and drugs.

425 Sharmuta  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:00:28pm

re: #399 Mich-again

Can you tell me what it is? I'll be pulling the GOP straight ticket lever just like I have for every election since 1984 and I was wondering whats in the platform these days.

Here's the platform in pdf format.

426 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:00:59pm

re: #353 Killgore Trout

This spinoff needs more pluses.

Why are we here? PLASTIC.

427 Cartman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:01:40pm

I had always thought of Iowa as definitely part of "flyover country".

What happened? Shame on you, Iowa!

428 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:05:02pm
429 Da_Beerfreak  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:05:17pm

re: #427 Cartman

I had always thought of Iowa as definitely part of "flyover country".

What happened? Shame on you, Iowa!

Even flyover country thinks of Iowa as "flyover country".
// {;-)™

430 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:06:38pm

re: #414 Steffan

Zod's a wuss. He's worse than Obama.

Vote Cthulhu 2008.

Cthulu? That nothing?
Vote for one of the REAL ancient gods - Azathoth, Yog-Sogoth, and the others, or for their messenger, Nyarlathotep.

the mindless entity Azathoth, which rules all time and space from a curiously environed black throne at the centre of Chaos


the boundless daemon-sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin, monotonous whine of accursed flutes; to which detestable pounding and piping dance slowly, awkwardly, and absurdly the gigantic ultimate gods, the blind, voiceless, tenebrous, mindless Other Gods whose soul and messenger is the crawling chaos Nyarlathotep.
431 Picayune  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:06:45pm

#273 maddogg 5/20/08 8:00:49 pm reply quote report 0

re: #260 The Shadow Do

You know what? That is the perfect rejoinder to BHO's claim that we must talk to our enemies and that we have in the past. The Japanese delegation was in Washington waiting for an audience when the first bombs were blasting Pear Harbor and murdering almost three thousand Americans (by the way, my Mom was among the wounded).

Obama was too young to see "Tora! Tora! Tora! when it came out....

I nominate your mother for the Purple Heart! Of course, with this admission, you won't be selected for any possible (God forbid) future Obama diplomatic corps.

432 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:07:09pm

re: #401 formercorpsman

I agree that the media had no clue about Islamism, even after the first WTC bombing. Oklahoma City and various militia stories seemed to turn the nation's attention to home-grown sources of terrorism.

I can't cite specific instances other than Kosovo, but recall a lot of talk at the time about the number of foreign deployments that Clinton ordered, even as he was reducing the size of the military.

In my previous post, I was thinking specifically of Buzz Patterson's account in Dereliction of Duty of "the" phone call - where Sandy Burger was urgently trying to get Clinton to make a decision about whether to get bin Laden. Patterson was the White House Air Force attache at the time. He took the call from Berger and was trying to get Clinton to talk to Berger. Clinton was playing golf and wouldn't give an answer, not even a No.

I guess I am making a leap from that point to what Clinton's motives were, but that is how I understand it.

433 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:07:18pm

re: #414 Steffan

Right! Why feel compelled to choose the lesser evil!

But I'm not actually running in this election. I'll be running in 2012. One major part of my party platform will be to end the ID*/Evolution debate with my "I Created You To Be My Food" speech.

*At which point the misnomer "Intelligent Design" will be changed to the more accurate "Malevolent Design".

434 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:07:21pm

The Charmer is really making them tingle and faint tonite!

435 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:07:53pm

re: #430 Kosh's Shadow

I'm gonna' have nightmares after reading that.

436 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:08:22pm

re: #434 Obama/Olbermann 08

You mean the snake oil salesman, right?

437 wolfie  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:09:09pm

Why are we picking on Iowa?
Since it's a caucus state, the voters never had a say there.
Let's pick on Oregon!

438 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:09:29pm

re: #434 Obama/Olbermann 08

That's one fucked-up nic, and so is your avatar.

439 ladycatnip  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:09:41pm

#420 Mich-again

re: #415 loggiedog

Why is it that all the lush or beautiful places (Oregon, Vermont, MA) all have the biggest cases of moonbats with BDS?

A: Rich white people

They attract the occult as well. Here in California we have Big Sur, and Arizona has Sedona; these gorgeous places are huge in New Age, goddess, Wiccan and Gaia worshipers. Usually those types tend to be of the deranged moonbat persuasion, which doesn't say much for the left.

440 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:09:58pm

Darn I just ate some more food

441 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:10:39pm
442 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:10:55pm

re: #436 loggiedog

You mean the snake oil salesman, right?

I believe he's gonna change your oil!

443 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:11:54pm

I think the Dems will be going with Nyarlahotep for their nominee.

444 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:12:10pm

re: #435 MandyManners

I'm gonna' have nightmares after reading that.

I've been a big Lovecraft fan; after that, no modern horror writer comes close.

I started reading his stuff when I was a grad student at Brown, and I'd go visit locations mentioned in the books. (Lovecraft lived in Providence, RI)

And it is interesting that his mythological book, the Necronomicon, was supposedly written by a mad Arab, Abdul Al-Harazed.
(The name came from a distant relationship, the Hazard family. I wonder if they were related to the Dean of Brown when I was there, Dean Hazard)

445 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:12:11pm

Did Obama come out for David Cook or David Archuleta?

446 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:12:15pm

re: #442 Obama/Olbermann 08

I believe he's gonna change your oil!

I'll whack him with my tire iron if he comes near my car.

447 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:13:06pm

re: #444 Kosh's Shadow

I've never read Lovecraft but, I've read a lot about him here.

448 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:13:13pm

re: #438 MandyManners

That's one fucked-up nic, and so is your avatar.

Yeah, I did it myself.

Is it a rising or a setting sun? Or something else?

449 Desert Dog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:13:18pm

re: #446 MandyManners

I'll whack him with my tire iron if he comes near my car.

Forget the free oil...you get a NEW CAR! ding ding ding.....

450 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:13:24pm

re: #430 Kosh's Shadow

Naaah. My vote's for the flabby claws.

The Thing cannot be described - there is no language for such abysms of shrieking and immemorial lunacy, such eldritch contradictions of all matter, force, and cosmic order. A mountain walked or stumbled. God! What wonder that across the earth a great architect went mad, and poor Wilcox raved with fever in that telepathic instant? The Thing of the idols, the green, sticky spawn of the stars, had awaked to claim his own. The stars were right again, and what an age-old cult had failed to do by design, a band of innocent sailors had done by accident. After vigintillions of years great Cthulhu was loose again, and ravening for delight.

451 RTLM  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:13:38pm

Getting close to headphones time.

(Bose)

452 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:14:19pm

re: #439 ladycatnip

All these formerly beautiful places which were once affordable become prohibitive as these new-age yuppie leftists displace the middle-class. Vermont used to be a strong conservative state. Burlington is almost another country. They're lucky that Swanton / Highgate Springs remain the Conservative line of defense in case in 20 years the Jihad takes over across the border in Montreal.

453 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:15:08pm

re: #446 MandyManners

I'll whack him with my tire iron if he comes near my car.

Snake oil is an alternative energy source, and more plentiful than ethanol.

454 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:15:28pm

re: #450 Steffan

...the green, sticky spawn of the stars...

Charles - rotating title thingy!

455 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:15:42pm

re: #448 Obama/Olbermann 08

Yeah, I did it myself.

Is it a rising or a setting sun? Or something else?

It's a moon.

456 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:16:14pm

re: #454 gearhead

Charles - rotating title thingy!

I second the motion.

457 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:16:27pm

re: #432 gearhead

I figured as much.

My response was more to do with what the direction the country preferred.

You are correct, he wanted nothing to do with it.

Hot potato, big boy pants stuff if you actually belly up to the bar and deal with international terrorism.

I truly think, if the media did it's job, and instead of worrying so much about gays serving openly in the military, and actually put a little time into the financial connections withing the first Trade Center bombing, the public at large would be much more educated than they are now.

I am afraid, it is going to take a nuclear act of terrorism before the civilized world realizes we do have a problem on our hands.

In many ways, I put the blame squarely on the Clinton administration for not handling Pakistan, India, and North Korean clandestine nuclear ambitions, hence we are dealing with international proliferation again.

So much for atoms for peace.

Somewhere, Antonin Scalia is paraphrased as opining that the is nothing in America that 30 years of hard times can't fix.

For some reason, we are unable to see the big picture as a society in general, the way we could with the cold war.

458 Desert Dog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:16:32pm

re: #452 loggiedog

All these formerly beautiful places which were once affordable become prohibitive as these new-age yuppie leftists displace the middle-class. Vermont used to be a strong conservative state. Burlington is almost another country. They're lucky that Swanton / Highgate Springs remain the Conservative line of defense in case in 20 years the Jihad takes over across the border in Montreal.

What is the old axiom....an "abuser of the land" is a guy who wants a house in the woods, next to the river. An "environmentalist" is a guy who already has a house in the woods, next to the river - and doesn't want anyone else to have one.....

459 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:16:32pm

re: #449 Desert Dog

Forget the free oil...you get a NEW CAR! ding ding ding.....

Probably will weigh 500 pounds, get 75 mpg and will flip over in a strong wind.

460 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:16:34pm

re: #453 Obama/Olbermann 08

Snake oil is an alternative energy source, and more plentiful than ethanol.

To create a sustainable resource, all we have to do is scream out "yes we can" and the reverberations will vibrate tiny geophones all across the world to create the voltage we need to power our society.

461 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:16:56pm

re: #455 MandyManners

It's a moon.

That's no moon, it's tha mothership.

462 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:16:59pm

re: #447 MandyManners

I've never read Lovecraft but, I've read a lot about him here.

He actually had a "science", or at least a logical framework, behind his horror stories. Others have stolen bits of this, but never really put it together.
Somehow, it is more frightening when it all makes some sort of sense, then when there are random monsters around.

Lovecraft himself, though, was a racist and probably an anti-Semite, but he's long dead, and was probably more a product of his time than anything else.

Plus, he could write, as you can tell from the samples in my earlier post.

463 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:17:26pm
464 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:17:27pm

re: #453 Obama/Olbermann 08

Snake oil is an alternative energy source, and more plentiful than ethanol.

You can drill snakes?

465 Desert Dog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:18:05pm

re: #459 MandyManners

Probably will weigh 500 pounds, get 75 mpg and will flip over in a strong wind.

BUT...it will be FREE! Just like your health care, your mortgage, your student loan, your breath mints, your long johns and your.......... blaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh

466 experiencedtraveller  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:18:09pm

re: #415 loggiedog

Why is it that all the lush or beautiful places (Oregon, Vermont, MA) all have the biggest cases of moonbats with BDS?

Good question. Oregon and Vermont enjoy rich natural environment and greatly benefit from America.

467 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:18:56pm

re: #461 Obama/Olbermann 08

That's no moon, it's tha mothership.

I wish it would beam up him and his backers.

468 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:19:17pm

re: #464 MandyManners

You can drill snakes?

In Japanese anime, snakes drill you.

469 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:19:31pm

re: #430 Kosh's Shadow

Description of Nyarlahotep from wiki:
a "tall, swarthy man" who resembles an Egyptian Pharaoh.

He wanders the earth, seemingly gathering legions of followers through his demonstrations of strange and seemingly magical instruments, the narrator of the story among them. These followers lose awareness of the world around them, and through the narrator's increasingly unreliable accounts the reader gets a sense of the world's utter collapse. The story ends with the narrator as part of an army of servants for Nyarlathotep.

470 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:19:47pm

re: #462 Kosh's Shadow

I might pick up something from him this summer.

471 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:19:54pm

re: #450 Steffan

Naaah. My vote's for the flabby claws.

Even shoggoths aren't frightened by Cthulu and his ilk nowadays.
Just stay away from the Mountains of Madness. But then, shoggoths are pretty nasty themselves:

“We were on the track ahead as the nightmare plastic column of foetid black iridescence oozed tightly onward through its fifteen-foot sinus; gathering unholy speed and driving before it a spiral, re-thickening cloud of the pallid abyss-vapour. It was a terrible, indescribable thing vaster than any subway train—a shapeless congeries of protoplasmic bubbles, faintly self-luminous, and with myriads of temporary eyes forming and unforming as pustules of greenish light all over the tunnel-filling front that bore down upon us, crushing the frantic penguins and slithering over the glistening floor that it and its kind had swept so evilly free of all litter.”

472 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:20:34pm

re: #439 ladycatnip

Visions of the hairy legged, interpretive dancing, lesbian, lacto-ovo vegetarian dancing in my head.

Oh, and one square of toilet paper as well.

473 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:20:34pm

re: #465 Desert Dog

your long johns

Will they be silk? If so, I'm so for him.

474 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:20:35pm

re: #462 Kosh's Shadow

Heh.

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.

Theosophists have guessed at the awesome grandeur of the cosmic cycle wherein our world and human race form transient incidents. They have hinted at strange survivals in terms which would freeze the blood if not masked by a bland optimism. But it is not from them that there came the single glimpse of forbidden eons which chills me when I think of it and maddens me when I dream of it. That glimpse, like all dread glimpses of truth, flashed out from an accidental piecing together of separated things - in this case an old newspaper item and the notes of a dead professor. I hope that no one else will accomplish this piecing out; certainly, if I live, I shall never knowingly supply a link in so hideous a chain.

475 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:21:16pm

re: #468 Obama/Olbermann 08

In Japanese anime, snakes drill you.

That's one art form/hobby/whatever that I'm glad I didn't get into.

476 Syrah  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:21:51pm

re: #468 Obama/Olbermann 08

Are you trying to be offensive?

477 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:22:09pm

Darn, my cat just ate some food.

478 JeremyR  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:22:26pm

re: #441 savage_nation

No he wasn't. T T T came out when I was 10 and Obama is only 6 monhs younger than me. I remember seeing it in the theatre.

Same here, it was one of the few I got to go see.

479 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:22:42pm

re: #464 MandyManners

You can drill snakes?

I don't think so. It's hard to get them to march.

480 Sharmuta  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:22:58pm

re: #477 Ojoe

Darn, my cat just ate some food.

Crap! My thermostat's at 73.

481 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:23:05pm

There is too much food in my fridge.

Dang

482 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:23:35pm
483 J.S.  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:23:36pm

re: #70 Jim in Virginia

Any idea why Barry is celebrating his Oregon victory in Iowa? Is this another example of his geography skill?

Apparently, the ObamaMessiah (in prophet-mode) was to have declared himself the victor (yeah, the "chosen one") and the Democratic nominee for prez. Then, his plans were scuttled by Hillary's trouncing him in Kentucky. Sooo, now he's had to back-peddle somewhat...or cool it in terms of "hurray for me!" (The original plan was to return to Iowa -- the scene of his first "triumph" -- and close-off or finish the campaign by announcing himself as the winner.) (in his Iowa speech he's been forced to offer some condescending remarks to Hillary...)

484 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:23:55pm

re: #476 Syrah

Actually, I think he is just telling the truth.

I am not into that stuff at all, but there are some pretty deranged folks who are all over it.

Crazy stuff.

485 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:24:02pm

I have a shameful lava lamp

I'll turn it off

486 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:24:04pm

re: #444 Kosh's Shadow

The search engine for all your Lovecraftian needs.

487 Syrah  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:24:09pm

There is a freaking SUV in my driveway!

488 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:24:26pm

re: #481 Ojoe

You better clear that with the other countries first.

489 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:24:52pm

re: #475 MandyManners

That's one art form/hobby/whatever that I'm glad I didn't get into.

Well, it's actually usually tentacles. (Why didn't Lovecraft think of that?)

But it's be very much like living in Barry's America.

490 Sharmuta  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:25:18pm

Quick! Hide the video games!

491 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:25:29pm

re: #488 formercorpsman

OK

global food test

492 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:25:34pm

re: #469 Catttt

Description of Nyarlahotep from wiki:
a "tall, swarthy man" who resembles an Egyptian Pharaoh.

He wanders the earth, seemingly gathering legions of followers through his demonstrations of strange and seemingly magical instruments, the narrator of the story among them. These followers lose awareness of the world around them, and through the narrator's increasingly unreliable accounts the reader gets a sense of the world's utter collapse. The story ends with the narrator as part of an army of servants for Nyarlathotep.

So - Obama is Nyarlathotep?
It fits. And a lot of mad Arabs like him.

So, we know what is on his bookshelf - the Necronomicon.

493 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:26:12pm
494 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:26:34pm

re: #476 Syrah

Are you trying to be offensive?

No more than necessary.
Is it working?

495 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:26:39pm

re: #489 Obama/Olbermann 08

Well, it's actually usually tentacles. (Why didn't Lovecraft think of that?)

But it's be very much like living in Barry's America.

Lovecraft was a mama's boy, kinda sorta sexually repressed. He also lived in the '30s. They didn't do that kind of thing back then.

We had to wait for perverted Japanese cartoonists to come up with the idea. :)

496 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:26:41pm

re: #479 Catttt

I don't think so. It's hard to get them to march.

LOL!

497 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:27:00pm

re: #470 MandyManners

I might pick up something from him this summer.

Go for the Arkham House editions. The paperbacks tend to be poorly edited, and sometimes pretend work by August Derleth and others is really by Lovecraft.

498 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:27:21pm

re: #481 Ojoe


There is too much food in my fridge.

Dang


Our refrigerator was empty today, so I went shopping. Should I have cleared it with the U.N. Security Counsel first?

Life is getting soooooo complicated. And political. And complicated.

*sigh*

499 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:27:22pm

re: #491 Ojoe

You know, if the Republicans had any balls, they would have a good group of writers working on those quips, and putting it out there in Colbert fashion.

500 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:27:45pm

re: #489 Obama/Olbermann 08

Not funny. Not cute.

GAZE.

501 Syrah  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:28:01pm

re: #493 savage_nation

Hell, I got a Peterbilt with a 425 HP Cat engine.

You win.

Do you earn enough to feed it?

502 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:28:19pm

PIMF

Council

503 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:28:36pm

re: #498 Irene NYC

Actually, call the U.N.

They have quite a bit left over, they sent condoms to Burma instead.

504 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:28:44pm

re: #457 formercorpsman

When the cold war ended, we thought all the hard times were behind us.

If the journalists would put a decent amount of time into any story, we would be better off

505 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:28:48pm

It looks like the OR SoS webpage is now shooting blanks... the reporting computers are acting like they don't know they ought to report the 2008 results... I think all the invoking of Lovecraft did it.

506 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:29:01pm

re: #500 MandyManners

Not funny. Not cute.

GAZE.

I'm afraid I have to agree.

Even if they do deserve each other.

507 Syrah  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:29:02pm

re: #494 Obama/Olbermann 08

No more than necessary.
Is it working?

Up until I read some of your other post.

508 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:29:30pm

re: #503 formercorpsman

Condoms-For-Food is the new U.N. program?

509 JeremyR  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:29:39pm

re: #482 savage_nation

I remember seeing Patton about the same time

Ah the era of great films and great actors. Now days look at the crap they put on the sliver screed. Enough to make a person vomit.

Speaking of vomit, are you aware that the Aussie dialect has morethen thirty words for vomit? Among them are round trip meal ticket, visible speach, and technicolor yawn.

510 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:29:47pm

re: #479 Catttt

I don't think so. It's hard to get them to march.

But they can be taught drawling, stretching, and fainting in coils.

511 JeremyR  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:30:59pm

re: #493 savage_nation

Hell, I got a Peterbilt with a 425 HP Cat engine.

Shit, my brother was braggin up his Nissan with a 350 HP Ford under the hood.

512 Desert Dog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:31:21pm

re: #508 Irene NYC

Condoms-For-Food is the new U.N. program?

The condoms are for the UN workers that will undoubtedly start raping the local boys and girls once they arrive to administer all that aid. They are probably loading up on whiskey and cigarettes as well. Food, blankets and medicine are last on the list

513 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:31:23pm

re: #508 Irene NYC

I actually just read that somewhere about an hour ago.

Can't remember where, but true to form, the U.N. saves the day.

It might have actually been in the spin-off links now that I think about it.

514 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:31:44pm

re: #509 JeremyR

Doesn't surprise me. It's like Eskimos (sorry, Inuit) and snow.

If you have a lot of it, you begin to differentiate the types. Each type deserves its own word, don't'y'know.

515 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:32:12pm
516 nobs  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:32:15pm

We've Been Had

This was Obama's rally in Oregon over the weekend, which saw 75,000 people gather on the waterfront, on a sunny summer day, to hear the great one speak. Or did they? The headline in the New York Times was "Obama Draws Huge Crowd in Oregon." So they must have been there to see Obama, right? Wrong.

Hugh points to this report from the local paper:

Obama was the biggest star at Sunday's gathering -- though a popular Portland band, The Decemberists, provided the warmup act. With blue skies and temperatures in the 80s, many in the crowd said Waterfront Park was simply the place to be.

Hugh also notes that The Decemberists typically open their shows with what I'm sure is a stirring rendition of the Soviet national anthem. No word on whether they opened the Obama rally with such a performance, but I'm certain our trusted media would have reported it if they did.
[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

God help us!

517 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:32:20pm

re: #504 gearhead

Agreed.

518 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:32:31pm

Senator Obama - I used a disposable spork at lunch. Call the UN and report me, why don'tcha.

519 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:32:48pm
520 JeremyR  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:33:11pm

re: #508 Irene NYC

Condoms-For-Food is the new U.N. program?

decided not to post what I was thinking.

521 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:33:22pm
522 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:33:37pm

re: #516 nobs

We've Been Had

This was Obama's rally in Oregon over the weekend, which saw 75,000 people gather on the waterfront, on a sunny summer day, to hear the great one speak. Or did they? The headline in the New York Times was "Obama Draws Huge Crowd in Oregon." So they must have been there to see Obama, right? Wrong.

Hugh points to this report from the local paper:

Hugh also notes that The Decemberists typically open their shows with what I'm sure is a stirring rendition of the Soviet national anthem. No word on whether they opened the Obama rally with such a performance, but I'm certain our trusted media would have reported it if they did.
[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

God help us!

Oh, my stars!

523 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:33:45pm

re: #509 JeremyR

Ah the era of great films and great actors. Now days look at the crap they put on the sliver screed. Enough to make a person vomit.

Speaking of vomit, are you aware that the Aussie dialect has morethen thirty words for vomit? Among them are round trip meal ticket, visible speach, and technicolor yawn.

Don't forget Chunder!

524 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:33:50pm

re: #499 formercorpsman

I hope they are reading here.re: #509 JeremyR

visible speech LOL

In school we used to say "driving the porcelain bus"

525 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:34:31pm

re: #513 formercorpsman

Yes, I read about it too. To the U.N., it falls under "medical aid." You know, stressed out, starving, dehydrated population that is in mourning and has no idea where they might get a cup of rice only has boffing on their minds.

I'd say the U.N. is suffering from a terrible case of projection here.

526 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:34:42pm

re: #516 nobs

We've Been Had

This was Obama's rally in Oregon over the weekend, which saw 75,000 people gather on the waterfront, on a sunny summer day, to hear the great one speak. Or did they? The headline in the New York Times was "Obama Draws Huge Crowd in Oregon." So they must have been there to see Obama, right? Wrong.

Hugh points to this report from the local paper:

Hugh also notes that The Decemberists typically open their shows with what I'm sure is a stirring rendition of the Soviet national anthem. No word on whether they opened the Obama rally with such a performance, but I'm certain our trusted media would have reported it if they did.
[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

God help us!

Now taking bets on whether he wore his US flag lapel pin...

527 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:35:02pm

re: #494 Obama/Olbermann 08

Hence, my description of the folks who are into that stuff.

Most are not prudes here, but some stuff is just deviant.

I am guilty of admiring female nakedness in all of it's splendor, but the animal shit is just gross.

528 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:35:46pm

re: #518 Catttt

Somewhere in there is an excellent joke.

I just can't figure it out yet.

529 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:36:38pm

re: #527 formercorpsman

Hence, my description of the folks who are into that stuff.

Most are not prudes here, but some stuff is just deviant.

I am guilty of admiring female nakedness in all of it's splendor, but the animal shit is just gross.

Isn't it also into abusing women?

530 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:36:43pm

re: #512 Desert Dog


Food, blankets and medicine are last on the list


Of course, since the Burmese generals are confiscating all of them.

531 SusanL  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:36:51pm

Yes, Oregon is over-run with moonbats. As one who has lived here most of my life I can tell you that before we were over-run, it wasn't like this.

In the 1970's they came in droves from California. We tried ad campaigns designed to keep them away and they didn't work. They ran up housing prices to a outrageous level, ruined the schools and brought the same failed socialist policies here. You ask most of the downtown liberals and you will find that they haven't been here long.

Someone said something earlier about McCain's 72%. That sounds about right, Ron Paul was still on the ballot here, so there is about 5%. The rest were either blank or goofy write-ins.

532 JeremyR  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:36:53pm

re: #519 savage_nation

LOL

Gotta watch my typing tonight. Had to avoid an earlier thread or I'd have been banned for sure.
Off topic and bad jokes are best for tonight.

533 Syrah  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:36:59pm

re: #515 savage_nation

So far. But the way things are going, its tough. Jevic went out of business yesterday. 1500 people out of work with no notice.

With oil going to 150/b by Christmas ( or sooner), I think the whole transportation industry will be in for a terrible shock.

534 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:37:17pm
535 Desert Dog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:37:24pm

re: #530 Irene NYC

Of course, since the Burmese generals are confiscating all of them.

They are also taking the whiskey and cigs (and condoms too)

536 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:37:35pm

re: #515 savage_nation

So far. But the way things are going, its tough. Jevic went out of business yesterday. 1500 people out of work with no notice.

That's really sad. No more healthcare as of 5/19. The company is just gone...liquidated.

537 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:38:35pm
538 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:38:52pm

re: #516 nobs

The Decemberists typically open their shows with what I'm sure is a stirring rendition of the Soviet national anthem.

Socialist realism, indeed!

(Obama For ☭hange!)

539 JeremyR  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:39:07pm

re: #524 Ojoe

The mornig after my 18th B-day, my company Commander asked if I'd found my friend the night before, A mister York, first name Ralph.

540 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:39:17pm
541 Da_Beerfreak  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:39:39pm

re: #471 Kosh's Shadow

Cutethulhu
//{;-)™

542 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:39:40pm

re: #525 Irene NYC

When you really think about it.

What else does this outfit have to do, to show the world it's irrelevance?

Seriously, what the hell do they have to do?

Aside from everything else after WW2, Rwanda should have sealed their fate. If not that, Oil for Food.

I can;t figure it out.

543 gearhead  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:40:07pm

Nite all. It's late and I still have stuff to do.

544 loggiedog  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:40:33pm

re: #540 savage_nation

yep. just like that, and they were a big outfit too

Meanwhile Urban Outfitters gets to stay in business and sell Palestinian Children Jihad Shirts

545 MandyManners  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:40:40pm

Later, Lizards!

546 Macker  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:41:04pm

re: #516 nobs

Pooty restored the old Soviet national anthem, replaced the lyrics with something more...Russian.

547 DesertSage  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:42:30pm

Cool video.

I want to be a 'Raqstar!

548 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:43:22pm
549 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:45:07pm

re: #537 savage_nation

Do you realize that today the farthest contract (Dec 2016) jumped up to $139.50/bbl ? The oil futures are in contango now, and may continue this for.... ?

550 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:45:10pm

re: #541 Da_Beerfreak

"More tea, Mr. Cthulhu?"

LOL!

551 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:45:30pm

re: #539 JeremyR

Ralph York

ROFLMAO

552 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:45:46pm

"You could run a refrigerator against McCain and win in November".

I'm done with the arrogance of the left.

553 nobs  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:45:54pm

re: #546 Macker

Pooty restored the old Soviet national anthem, replaced the lyrics with something more...Russian.

Please do not tell me the new lyrics have hope and change in them or is it change then hope.

554 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:45:57pm

re: #497 Kosh's Shadow

Arkham?

555 Syrah  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:46:10pm

re: #537 savage_nation

Thats all we are talking about at the counter

The hysteria that result when the cost are transfered to the consumer will be a sight to see. Potentially ugly...

Consumers really have not taken the hit yet.

When they do, they will be more interested in assigning blame then in finding a solution.

556 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:46:11pm

re: #542 formercorpsman

Oil for Food

=

Olive oil

557 DesertSage  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:46:25pm

re: #538 Obama/Olbermann 08

You know something O/O 08, you contribute nothing to society! You're just taking up space.

558 Irene NYC  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:46:35pm

re: #542 formercorpsman

I think the only reason they still exist is that everybody knows that if the US tried to withdraw from the UN there would be unending riots across the country by the MoveOn and anarchist crowd. It's like we're held hostage.

Frankly, I'm starting to think I don't even want to be in the same country as them anymore.

559 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:47:03pm
560 Typicalwhitey  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:47:26pm

We watched his speech tonight and my husband, who is not political at all, finally yelled at the tv:

"change WHAT?"

He then told me damn that guy never does say what the hell he is going to change and what he is going to change it to.

LOL

561 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:47:33pm

re: #529 MandyManners

To be honest, I don't know because as soon as I see it, my knee jerk reaction is to get the picture in my mind of some egghead who can't communicate with society, so they live out bizarre fantasy in another medium.

I am typical guy. I don't like change, I shave in the shower, and brush my teeth in the shower because it seems a more stealth way to get the job done. Give me old Bugs Bunny cartoons any day. All the effort these (anime?) folks put into this stuff, would just seem better time spent trying to actually meet some women in a club.

I clicked the link, saw the picture, read about 2 sentences in, and got what I described above in my head.

I don't know, it just seems really geekish to me.

562 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:48:27pm

re: #553 nobs

Please do not tell me the new lyrics have hope and change in them or is it change then hope.

Hopey changiness.

563 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:48:28pm

re: #560 Typicalwhitey

Spare change?

Spare change?

Got any spare change man?

564 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:49:03pm

re: #559 savage_nation

That would be quite the leap. Any reason why?

565 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:49:04pm
566 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:51:54pm
567 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:52:09pm

re: #557 DesertSage

You know something O/O 08, you contribute nothing to society! You're just taking up space.

That's not true! I fill a much needed void.

568 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:53:31pm

re: #565 savage_nation

OTOH some of this oil price might be speculation & it will pop, as a bubble; you have seen that in housing & the speculative wash flows elsewhere.

Later in the far future when humanity is more aware of what is good and what is not, there won't be so much disruptive speculation. (IMHO)

569 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:54:24pm

re: #527 formercorpsman

Hence, my description of the folks who are into that stuff.

Most are not prudes here, but some stuff is just deviant.

I am guilty of admiring female nakedness in all of it's splendor, but the animal shit is just gross.



Listen up newbies. Please be so kind as to mark adult content, nudity, hentai, etc., that you link with a WARNING LABEL so people don't click something they don't want to look at. "Not work safe" is a good way to mark things.

570 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:54:26pm

re: #567 Obama/Olbermann 08

LOL

and 0/0 is dividing by zero ...

571 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:54:45pm

re: #554 Slumbering Behemoth

Arkham?

Arkham is supposed to be somewhere in Moonbattachusetts. Maybe that explains politics here.

572 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:54:50pm
573 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:55:35pm
574 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:55:53pm

re: #572 savage_nation

Well we should have been working on solutions for about 30 years now.

575 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:55:55pm

Ah well, gotta go walk the dog.

576 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:56:41pm

re: #574 Ojoe

The democrats already have a plan.

577 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:56:49pm

re: #568 Ojoe

OTOH some of this oil price might be speculation & it will pop, as a bubble; you have seen that in housing & the speculative wash flows elsewhere.

Later in the far future when humanity is more aware of what is good and what is not, there won't be so much disruptive speculation. (IMHO)

My guess is Soros will keep inflating the bubble until after the election.

578 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:57:02pm

re: #573 savage_nation

I wondered.

Speculators really rack up the bad karma.

579 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:57:19pm
580 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:57:28pm

re: #570 Ojoe

It's all about the "O"

581 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:59:15pm

re: #559 savage_nation

I'm thinking contracts signed at the beginning of '09 will be hovering at $250 to $300

I have no idea why, but I think the price will top out around $200 for spot.

Anyone remember the big silver squeeze of .... 1979, I think it was? Based on the speculations of the billionaire Hunt brothers. There is some (informed) speculation that much of the current oil price is because of ... er, speculation. Could go bust, leaving someone holding a $100,000,000,000 bag.

Here's the poop, if oil is over $150/barrel in November, the Democrats will win, pretty much no matter what else is said and done. Might be true at $120. Might be true at $80. I cannot BELIEVE how blind the press and candidates have been to this, so far, much less Dubya his own self. These oil prices are going to be his legacy, when all other details of the Iraq war are forgotten.

582 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 9:59:38pm

re: #566 savage_nation

Well, I suppose it is not unreasonable to think that someday oil will trade for double that which it does today.

However, there are a couple of things that keep me from believing that in 9 months there will be another doubling:

1) a great deal of oil (whether real crude or "other liquids") is bought and sold in private deals (either companies or national entities) and these may be negotiated on terms that won't slavishly follow the NYMEX WTI.

2) national legislative bodies will step in and control the price of oil. Witness the current bill to bring OPEC under the anti-trust laws in the US. In many nations the prices of oil and petroleum products are already set by government entities. IMO any short term run up greater than $200 will bring similar responses in additional nations.

3) if oil remains in contango much longer, there will be additional incentive for buyers to bid on the nearer term contracts... thus driving up the price of oil in the closest contracts. This will be felt much by everybody, and while gasoline use in the US is very, very inelastic in the short term, longer term elasticity looks better.

Just my $.02

583 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:00:08pm
584 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:01:44pm
585 Obama/Olbermann 08  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:02:18pm

re: #569 Catttt

And my apologies for the hentai reference... but as O/O precinct captain, as you see, I'll do anything for a joke.

Now I really must feed Cthulhu.

586 Da_Beerfreak  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:02:23pm

re: #574 Ojoe

Well we should have been working on solutions for about 30 years now.

I started driving back in '70. I've been watching Washington do nothing for the last 35 years. I now believe that Washington is incapable of solving any major problems. Nothing is going to change until the shit hits the fan big time! That's why I look at November's election as just more of the same old bull shit.
// {:-(™

587 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:02:26pm

Hey Y'all - sorry I'm so late tonight and can't stay long but this is a longish thread so I won't ask what did I miss! LOL!
Does anyone have the "final" or close to final percentages in Oregon?
Is it possible that Obama will have enough delegates so that Hillary will have to drop out by June 3rd (I think that's the date the superdelegates are supposed to say who they're committed to or the day after the last primary)?

588 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:02:58pm

re: #579 savage_nation

This is still the best solar energy book for buildings

and it is from 1979 and it is out of print.

589 Macker  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:03:10pm

re: #553 nobs

Please do not tell me the new lyrics have hope and change in them or is it change then hope.

Here they are. Judge for yourself:

Russia - our sacred stronghold,
Russia - our beloved country.
A mighty will, a great glory
Are your heritage for all times!

Chorus:
Be glorious, our free Motherland,
Ancient union of brotherly peoples,
Ancestor given wisdom of the people!
Be glorious, country! We take pride in you!

From the southern seas to the polar region
Spread our forests and our fields.
You are one in the world! You are one of a kind,
Native land protected by God!

Chorus

A broad expanse for dreams and for lives
Is opened to us by the coming years.
Our faith in our Motherland gives us strength.
So it was, so it is, and so it will always be!

590 Picayune  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:03:27pm

457 formercorpsman 5/20/08 9:16:27 pm reply quote report 0

re: #432 gearhead

As you alluded, the reason is - The Media, not doing it's proper job, hence - LFG & the Bolgs. When the event occurs here next - the media will keep doing it's same ole, and Obama & his legions of moonbats will demand immediate "sit downs" with the perps. Then folks like you, me, and many millions will demand immediate real change, of import - at the tip of our spear!

The American spirit is alive and well in Kentucky tonight, and all across this nation. Time will tell. Regret to say that I've thought you're right about the motivating event for a couple of years now. Is this 1939?

When change is anticipated, it can be a very good thing, but when denied - it hits with the plutonian power of a Katrina, overpowering the ill prepared, and leaving only devastation and disillusion in its wake. The Moonbats haven't a clue! Others do.

Keep your weather eye open!

591 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:03:49pm

re: #587 realwest

Is it possible that Obama will have enough delegates so that Hillary will have to drop out by June 3rd?

There is no such number, Hillary is still betting on a bus crash on the way to the convention hall.

592 Syrah  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:04:50pm

re: #581 itellu3times

I have no idea why, but I think the price will top out around $200 for spot.

Anyone remember the big silver squeeze of .... 1979, I think it was? Based on the speculations of the billionaire Hunt brothers. There is some (informed) speculation that much of the current oil price is because of ... er, speculation. Could go bust, leaving someone holding a $100,000,000,000 bag.

Here's the poop, if oil is over $150/barrel in November, the Democrats will win, pretty much no matter what else is said and done. Might be true at $120. Might be true at $80. I cannot BELIEVE how blind the press and candidates have been to this, so far, much less Dubya his own self. These oil prices are going to be his legacy, when all other details of the Iraq war are forgotten.

The difference is that china is buying. This is not a silver bubble. This demand increasing faster then production.

593 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:05:06pm
594 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:05:28pm

Well according to the Associated With Terrorist Press: "Clinton won at least 37 delegates in the two states and Obama won at least 23, according to an analysis of election returns by The Associated Press. All the Kentucky delegates were awarded, but there were still 43 to be allocated in Oregon, and Obama was in line for many of them.

He had 1,940 delegates overall, out of 2,026 needed for the nomination. Clinton had 1,759 according the latest tally by the AP.
[Link: enews.earthlink.net...]

595 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:06:55pm

re: #583 savage_nation

Soros needs to be in legirons and handcuffs. Try him for threats to national security and execute his fat ass.

And this oil price runup is definitely a national security threat.

He's driving the price up so we can't afford to boil him in oil.

596 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:07:35pm

re: #585 Obama/Olbermann 08

And my apologies for the hentai reference... but as O/O precinct captain, as you see, I'll do anything for a joke.

Now I really must feed Cthulhu.

That's ok - I figured as much. Just a word to the wise.

BTW, cats are better. They wallk themselves. :D

597 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:08:24pm

re: #590 Picayune

The landscape of Europe makes me nervous.

At the most basic level, you can't burden society with aging socialism, have your native birth-rate not even replace the death rate, and invite immigration minus assimilation.

That place is a potential powder keg.

598 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:08:53pm
599 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:09:03pm

re: #596 Catttt

And very rarely pull themselves across the floor.

600 formercorpsman  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:09:42pm

I gotta get to bed guys.

Take it easy.

601 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:10:30pm

re: #598 savage_nation

Then strap him to a wind turbine!

So that's why Cape Wind is being opposed so strongly!

602 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:11:13pm

I ran out of cat food, so my cats had pork chops for dinner. My Siamese is sleeping it off in the bedroom. My domestic shorthair was not amused and is now giving me the evil eye.

603 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:11:26pm
604 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:11:55pm

Hope? Change? Empty words and ashes.

For the metal-head Lizards: Empty Words

[LYRIC SNIP]

Ashes and promises share a bond
Through the winds of change
Words are blown away
When visions that should be
Are tattooed in your mind
The power to let go
Is sometimes hard to find

The answer cannot be found
In the writing of others
Or the words of a trained mind
In a precious world of memories
We find ourselves confined

605 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:13:17pm

re: #581 itellu3times

I have no idea why, but I think the price will top out around $200 for spot.

Anyone remember the big silver squeeze of .... 1979, I think it was? Based on the speculations of the billionaire Hunt brothers. There is some (informed) speculation that much of the current oil price is because of ... er, speculation. Could go bust, leaving someone holding a $100,000,000,000 bag.

Here's the poop, if oil is over $150/barrel in November, the Democrats will win, pretty much no matter what else is said and done. Might be true at $120. Might be true at $80. I cannot BELIEVE how blind the press and candidates have been to this, so far, much less Dubya his own self. These oil prices are going to be his legacy, when all other details of the Iraq war are forgotten.

Horseshit. The better candidate will win. Don't even try to defend this nonsense.

606 Opilio  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:13:29pm

re: #119 freetoken

Well, in the final vote tally in KY:

Obama: 209,771 out of 701,127 votes, or 29.9191%.

How can anyone believe he will be able to carry the counties in the US that went "red" in the 2004 election?

Here's my county-by-county map of IN-OH-PA-MD-VA-WV-KY-TN Democrat primary results. Clinton carried one county in Eastern Kentucky by 93% to 5%. She won at least a dozen counties by margins of 80%+. Pretty astonishing.

607 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:14:52pm

re: #592 Syrah

The difference is that china is buying. This is not a silver bubble. This demand increasing faster then production.

But I think the conventional wisdom is that this only explains the price up to about $60-$80 today. Demand, plus (refining) bottlenecks, plus war uncertainty, plus weak dollar. That leaves another $50-$70 unexplained.

What may also be true is that China is buying - futures contracts!

I've been a big believer for ten years now, that the price of oil (and oil companies!) was going straight up for the next fifty years, but this current spike is outside the trend.

... and the oil companies may be nationalized by the wack job supplier nations, I never really counted on that.

608 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:14:55pm
609 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:16:06pm

re: #605 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Horseshit. The better candidate will win. Don't even try to defend this nonsense.

Hear me now, believe me later.

610 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:16:23pm

re: #557 DesertSage

You know something O/O 08, you contribute nothing to society! You're just taking up space.

Sage, Go to the link O/O provided, then go to the first Powerline link there, under the picture.

Scary!

611 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:17:30pm

re: #609 itellu3times

Hear me now, believe me later.

You'll look like a jackass with that outlook. I really don't care.

612 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:17:39pm

re: #593 savage_nation

As heating oil prices rise and the sun continues to shine for free, yes there will be a demand for that book.

613 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:18:52pm

re: #605 really grumpy big dog Johnson

The average guy would not know the ins and outs of crude oil prices if it bit them on the nose. Also, gas prices have risen faster than crude oil lately, cutting profit margins. Anyway, I agree with you. Some folks might vote the economy, as they see it, but it's not THE reason people will vote one way or the other.

614 Opilio  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:19:17pm

re: #608 savage_nation

Was it Morgan County KY?

Magoffin county:

Clinton 2714 93%
Obama 146 5%

Morgan county, right next door, went Clinton 89%-7%

615 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:20:32pm
616 X-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:20:41pm

re: #593 savage_nation

Best house I ever owned (for cheap energy bills) was passive solar. Built in 83 had 8" walls (2x6 vertical and 2x2 strapping horizontal) to increase insulation. All the big widows and patio doors faced south. Radiant electric celling panels and lightweight concrete floors in the second story. In Minnesota I could heat the entire 1700 Sq Ft house for $90 in february. I'm no earth muffin but I am a cheap bastard.

617 ladycatnip  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:20:42pm

#472 formercorpsman

re: #439 ladycatnip

Visions of the hairy legged, interpretive dancing, lesbian, lacto-ovo vegetarian dancing in my head.

Oh, and one square of toilet paper as well.

I'll be having a hard time getting that picture out of my head! LOL

618 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:21:05pm

re: #606 Opilio

Have you looked at the OR county by county map? Obama as expected won the Portland area (three counties) and also down in the counties with the college(s). Yet in other counties Hillary was able to pull out wins (albeit in much smaller margins than in Appalachia.)

Obama does not appear to be popular outside of (1) major liberal metropolitan areas, (2) colleges, (3) predominantly black population centers (rural or urban.)

If that is true, then I don't see how he will pick up more electoral votes than either Gore or Kerry.

619 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:21:08pm
620 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:23:11pm

re: #610 LeePro Hey {Lee} how are you tonight?
And your right, about that Powerline link - that's the old Imperial Japanese War (or Battle) Flag.

621 rawmuse  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:23:23pm

re: #618 freetoken


Obama does not appear to be popular outside of (1) major liberal metropolitan areas, (2) colleges, (3) predominantly black population centers (rural or urban.)

Which is proof that colleges are places where you pay money to become more stupid.

622 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:23:28pm

re: #587 realwest

Hey Y'all - sorry I'm so late tonight and can't stay long but this is a longish thread so I won't ask what did I miss! LOL!
Does anyone have the "final" or close to final percentages in Oregon?
Is it possible that Obama will have enough delegates so that Hillary will have to drop out by June 3rd (I think that's the date the superdelegates are supposed to say who they're committed to or the day after the last primary)?

Last I heard, Obama 58% - Hillary 42%

Hi {realwest}!

623 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:24:07pm

re: #610 LeePro

Where does that particular image come from? What I mean is, who is the artist that created it? It's not immediately obvious from the links.

624 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:25:36pm

re: #613 Catttt

The average guy would not know the ins and outs of crude oil prices if it bit them on the nose. Also, gas prices have risen faster than crude oil lately, cutting profit margins. Anyway, I agree with you. Some folks might vote the economy, as they see it, but it's not THE reason people will vote one way or the other.

Since when? Remember "It's the economy stupid"? It's always the prime issue. And it can be entirely in terms of gasoline prices, nothing more complicated.

Just wait until Obama starts on this. I can't wait to hear what kind of foolishness he'll say about it - and it won't even matter. I'm as pained by you are about the idea of it, but what's true is true. When the crops fail they dethrone the king, it's about as old as human history.

McCain will try to blame it on Bush and make his own proposals, but generally I don't think that works.

Now, if we have a shooting war with Iran, and oil goes to $300+ by November, then I dunno. Don't even want to think about it.

625 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:25:56pm

re: #618 freetoken Do you have a link to that OR county map?!

626 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:26:58pm

re: #607 itellu3times

But I think the conventional wisdom is that this only explains the price up to about $60-$80 today.

I don't know how much I would beleive "conventional wisdom".


... and the oil companies may be nationalized by the wack job supplier nations, I never really counted on that.

Well, in many nations the oil resources are already nationalized.

Then you have events like this going on:
Kazakhstan bans export of oil products amid soaring fuel costs

ALMATY, Kazakhstan: Kazakhstan on Monday banned the export of all refined oil products, news agencies reported, as the energy-rich Central Asian nation grapples with soaring fuel costs.

According to the EIA data Kazakhstan exports mostly unrefined oil, as the capacity of its refineries is much smaller than its oil production. Nevertheless, what we see here is indeed how national entities react.

627 Picayune  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:28:29pm

#597 formercorpsman 5/20/08 10:08:24 pm reply quote report 0

re: #590 Picayune

The landscape of Europe makes me nervous.

At the most basic level, you can't burden society with aging socialism, have your native birth-rate not even replace the death rate, and invite immigration minus assimilation.

That place is a potential powder keg.

As is said in da 9th ward, "Yea ya right." Worse, many in EU don't even smell the lit fuse. Yet, the most recent jerk to the right in Germany, France, and in London - implies that many are already regaining there sense of smell and taking rightful action - the polls. Let's hope the same can happen here before the next Big One! If not, Moonbats will be burned at the stake, en mass, after the next one. You can fly over us - just never really arouse us! Ask Admiral Yamamoto, who saw millions of Americans register within days of 12/7/42.

628 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:28:30pm

re: #622 LeePro WOW, Hillary got avalanched in Oregon! BTW {Lee} didja see my #620?

629 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:28:45pm

re: #590 Picayune

457 formercorpsman 5/20/08 9:16:27 pm reply quote report 0

re: #432 gearhead

As you alluded, the reason is - The Media, not doing it's proper job, hence - LFG & the Bolgs. When the event occurs here next - the media will keep doing it's same ole, and Obama & his legions of moonbats will demand immediate "sit downs" with the perps. Then folks like you, me, and many millions will demand immediate real change, of import - at the tip of our spear!

The American spirit is alive and well in Kentucky tonight, and all across this nation. Time will tell. Regret to say that I've thought you're right about the motivating event for a couple of years now. Is this 1939?

When change is anticipated, it can be a very good thing, but when denied - it hits with the plutonian power of a Katrina, overpowering the ill prepared, and leaving only devastation and disillusion in its wake. The Moonbats haven't a clue! Others do.

Keep your weather eye open!

Don't "copy/paste" when replying. Use the "reply" or "quote" button (in the header of each comment), so we don't have to scroll all over the place trying to find the one you're referring to!

It's called courtesy.

630 X-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:29:49pm

McCain needs to come out with a "The economy runs on oil Stupid, so let US drill and refine" Ad.

631 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:30:43pm

re: #626 freetoken

I don't know how much I would beleive "conventional wisdom".

Well it's been wrong so far, but maybe wrong for new reasons. Most of what I read has the oil companies' own experts throwing up their hands at it all. Also both supply and demand have been much less elastic so far than predicted.

632 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:31:24pm

re: #624 itellu3times

Since when? Remember "It's the economy stupid"? It's always the prime issue. And it can be entirely in terms of gasoline prices, nothing more complicated.

Just wait until Obama starts on this. I can't wait to hear what kind of foolishness he'll say about it - and it won't even matter. I'm as pained by you are about the idea of it, but what's true is true. When the crops fail they dethrone the king, it's about as old as human history.

McCain will try to blame it on Bush and make his own proposals, but generally I don't think that works.

Now, if we have a shooting war with Iran, and oil goes to $300+ by November, then I dunno. Don't even want to think about it.

It's not always the economy, stupid. That is not written on a tablet dropped from Mount Sinai. Get over your simplistic view. Jesus, man. You have no logic - just panic and stupid comments like "what's true is true."

633 wolfie  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:32:27pm

re: #606 Opilio

Here's my county-by-county map of IN-OH-PA-MD-VA-WV-KY-TN Democrat primary results. Clinton carried one county in Eastern Kentucky by 93% to 5%. She won at least a dozen counties by margins of 80%+. Pretty astonishing.

As I gaze with horror at my home state of Virginia, I must remind myself that Obama won that primary long before the Rev Wright's rantings,etc. hit the MSM.
If the primary were held today, you can bet the whole western part of the state would be as purple as Kentucky and WVa.....and many other areas would be in the Hildebeast's camp.

634 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:32:36pm

re: #630 X-ray

McCain needs to come out with a "The economy runs on oil Stupid, so let US drill and refine" Ad.

Forget the drilling, at $100/barrel I'll bet converting coal is economic, so why isn't it already happening? Lead time. Uncertainty. Greens. Lack of government leadership.

635 Opilio  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:32:42pm

CNN Kentucky exit poll:

White Democrats voted Clinton 76-22. (racists?)
White Independents voted Clinton 50-37 (racists?)
Black Democrats voted Obama 91-8 (racists?)

636 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:34:40pm

Senator Obama is going to lose a lot of people for one reason: they think he is, to quote a young man at work, "a tool."

637 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:35:15pm

re: #620 realwest

Hey {Lee} how are you tonight?
And your right, about that Powerline link - that's the old Imperial Japanese War (or Battle) Flag.

Yup, and judging from the poster art, not an accidental reference.

638 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:36:46pm

re: #632 Catttt

It's not always the economy, stupid. That is not written on a tablet dropped from Mount Sinai. Get over your simplistic view. Jesus, man. You have no logic - just panic and stupid comments like "what's true is true."

Maybe it is a stupid idea, but why the heat?

639 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:36:50pm

re: #623 Slumbering Behemoth

Where does that particular image come from? What I mean is, who is the artist that created it? It's not immediately obvious from the links.

Good question! And I don't know. How do you Google a piece of art?

640 X-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:37:38pm

re: #634 itellu3times

Forget the drilling, at $100/barrel I'll bet converting coal is economic, so why isn't it already happening? Lead time. Uncertainty. Greens. Lack of government leadership.

My understanding is the reason coal gasification which costs about $60 a barrel (gasoline equivalent). Isn't taking off for 2 reasons enviroweenie law suits and no guarantee that the house of Saud won't undercut the price if we get serious.

641 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:38:13pm

re: #613 Catttt Hi Cattt -just thought I'd let you know that when I was back in college (ya know, back in the stone ages) and was a History/Political Science major, we studied the voting trends in the 20th century and in every single presidential election, the candidate most closely tied to the economy (e.g., the incumbent or his VP) won or lost in direct correlation to the way the economy was moving. Economy looking good (whether it was in fact good being irrelevant) and the incumbent won. Economy looking bad (again whether or not it was in fact bad) incumbent lost - the only exceptions were if the US had been in the middle of a "BIG" war - then the Incumbent won hands down, going away.
Thus the phrase "Most voters vote on the basis of their pocketbooks".
This election may very well break that rule because Obama and Hillary have such HUGE negatives, but otherwise, McCain could get stuck with a huge loss because of the economy and he gets stuck to Bush.
Latest poll of Dem voters I saw had economy as the #1 issue at something like 42%; Iraq was down in second place at about 22%.

642 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:38:58pm

I was just listening to the rebroadcast of Hannity and Colmes, and that little shithead Alan Colmes pisses me off with his lies and dishonesty.

This is exactly where I diverged from Killgore Trout the other day.

Colmes shouts at his guest, overriding what he has to say in order to spout that McCain said that we'll have to talk to [name your favorite terrorists here] sooner or later, something he recently stole from the blatantly dishonest Huffington Post. In fact, what McCain actually said was that we will eventually have to deal with them, one way or another.

The contrast between the propaganda and the truth is huge, but the dems don't give a damn.

643 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:40:58pm

re: #630 X-ray Hey my friend, the only problem with that is that McCain is on record, as recently as a week ago - maybe two weeks ago on FOX with O'Reilly as being against drilling in Anwar or off Florida Keys, California coast. Don't recall what he said about refinaries, if anything.

644 solomonpanting  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:43:03pm

I just recently did a job for a Baby-Boomer woman who said that in the past she always voted Democrat. This time, she told me, hesitantly and sheepishly, she's voting for McCain, thinking I was going to go on a pro-Obama rant. Sometimes I feel this election could be a McGovern redo.

645 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:44:31pm

re: #643 realwest

Hey my friend, the only problem with that is that McCain is on record, as recently as a week ago - maybe two weeks ago on FOX with O'Reilly as being against drilling in Anwar or off Florida Keys, California coast. Don't recall what he said about refinaries, if anything.

Wrong. He did say he was against drilling in ANWAR, but he stated that he wanted to give incentives to the states to approve off-shore drilling in their areas. He encouraged the expansion of refinery capacity, the use of alternative fossil fuels, an indicated a desire to restart our nuclear powerplant construction.

I don't know where you get your information, but I got mine from the horse's mouth.

646 wolfie  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:45:48pm

re: #643 realwest

Hey my friend, the only problem with that is that McCain is on record, as recently as a week ago - maybe two weeks ago on FOX with O'Reilly as being against drilling in Anwar or off Florida Keys, California coast. Don't recall what he said about refinaries, if anything.

That is idiotic, IMO. McCain has the opportunity to slam Congress on this issue and yet all he is doing is presenting himself as part of the problem.

647 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:45:57pm

re: #644 solomonpanting
Sigh, I wished I shared your optimism - but look at the three congressional races so far THIS year - all three long serving and pretty good names, LOST.
Last one was in Louisiana, iirc, and that could be a Katrina loss, but I really don't think it looks good for the Repub's this time around.

648 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:47:22pm

Evening,

Had to finish up and submit a technical document for presentation in the morning.

Did B. Hussein and H. Clinton agree to a cage match in Denver?

649 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:47:30pm

re: #640 X-ray

My understanding is the reason coal gasification which costs about $60 a barrel (gasoline equivalent). Isn't taking off for 2 reasons enviroweenie law suits and no guarantee that the house of Saud won't undercut the price if we get serious.

Right, but this is exactly the time the government should step in and make it happen, to get the world price back down to $60. Look, it's $130 now. If we start making it at $60 and losing $10/barrel on it to the Sauds, OK, we're out of pocket a few billion. Right now we're hemoraging that much per week.

At this point, I doubt if the Sauds can or would get it that low.

Heck, Japan and China should fund the US efforts to do this.

650 Picayune  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:47:53pm

630 X-ray:

Make that: the world economy runs on oil Stupid, it's a geo-political commodity. Pelosi said in '06 that the Dems would solve our energy problems - so Nancy - get 'er done!

Or, get the hell out the way and let the US Drilling Contractors find, drill and pump, allow new refineries, nuke plants, and R&D new sources. Oil shales in the Dakotas will yield $ 16/bbl O&G, domestic - think on that.

Drill Anwar, the E&W Coast offshore, and specifically locate a semi-sub platform offshore from Babs Streisand's mansion in Malibu, get the picture! Let's debate the Dems' failure in Energy policy this election cycle - while gas hits $ 4 - 5/gal. this summer. Bring it on Dems. But they can't, with Algore leading them with his new paradigm to create socialism/bigger Gov.. They're stuck 'tween a rock/hard place! It's an inconvenient truth!

651 wolfie  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:48:06pm

re: #645 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Wrong. He did say he was against drilling in ANWAR, but he stated that he wanted to give incentives to the states to approve off-shore drilling in their areas. He encouraged the expansion of refinery capacity, the use of alternative fossil fuels, an indicated a desire to restart our nuclear powerplant construction.

I don't know where you get your information, but I got mine from the horse's mouth.

Good. At least that's far better than what the Democrats have offered. I hope he will have plenty of ads blasting them for their neglect and obstructionism.

652 solomonpanting  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:48:21pm

re: #647 realwest

The Dems will gain some Senate and House seats--that's a given.

653 DesertSage  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:48:22pm

re: #643 realwest

Hey RW. You're misstating what McCain said, he said that he would be open to offshore drilling and that he would try to convince the coastal state governors to allow it. The gulf state governors probably wouldn't have a problem with it, but my governor has become an environmental whackjob so it will be a hard sell.

McCain did say that he won't drill in ANWR, which pisses me off. But compared with Lord Obama who won't drill anywhere, I'll take what I can get.

654 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:49:02pm

re: #638 itellu3times

Maybe it is a stupid idea, but why the heat?

Sorry. I guess because it was hyperbolic. IMHO.

I agree with you on your comment about coal. :D

Senator O has been really sneaky and duplicitous to the coal honchos, and he keeps going back to his kissy face crap with the green freaks. Something like half the power supplied in the US is from coal, yet Senator O wants to cap emissions to make coal too expensive to use, while voting against bills that would have funded technology development to make coal more freaking green. He makes me want to scream. We have so much coal, and he doesn't want us to use it. He wants to do things that will hugely increase prices for energy, then he says he will have all these free giveaways for the entire country. Scream.

655 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:49:40pm

re: #646 wolfie Well, I hate to break it to you, but McCain has in fact been a part of Congress. Whether or not he is part of the problem with Congress I'm not sure, but I sure as hell don't like his Immigration Stance, nor McCain-Feingold. The good news, however, is that his opponent is also going to be a Senator - and if Obama tries to claim he wasn't part of the problem cause he was only in for 3 years, that just leads to his voting record (the most liberal and hence worst inCongress) and reveals his lack of experience.

656 Opilio  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:49:43pm

re: #625 realwest

Do you have a link to that OR county map?!


Here's a quick map of the Oregon results, by county. They're still counting, so things could change some.

657 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:50:09pm

re: #59 Charles

"The fear of tough and aggressive diplomacy."


I have reported this comment because it is a great rotating title

658 X-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:50:23pm

re: #643 realwest

Now that you mention it that is a problem. I'll pull the lever for him this November for 2 reasons He is way better than the socialist he's running (Obama or Hillary) against and he did serve Honorably in Vietnam. But you are right he is only negligibly a better political choice for what really needs to happen politically to keep us living in first world standards.
/dreaming McCain is actually conservative.

659 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:50:56pm

re: #656 Opilio

Here's a quick map of the Oregon results, by county. They're still counting, so things could change some.

Obama did better in population centers.

660 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:51:40pm

re: #654 Catttt

Sorry. I guess because it was hyperbolic. IMHO.

Yeah, I do that sometimes, my bad, no problem. My apologies to grumpy, too, but I figure he gave fair warning!

661 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:51:58pm

re: #659 jcm

Obama did better in population centers.


Because it is easier to think in the countryside.

662 Ojoe  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:52:21pm

Goodnight All

663 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:52:39pm

re: #655 realwest

Well, I hate to break it to you, but McCain has in fact been a part of Congress. Whether or not he is part of the problem with Congress I'm not sure, but I sure as hell don't like his Immigration Stance, nor McCain-Feingold. The good news, however, is that his opponent is also going to be a Senator - and if Obama tries to claim he wasn't part of the problem cause he was only in for 3 years, that just leads to his voting record (the most liberal and hence worst inCongress) and reveals his lack of experience.

Good point. Two US senators will be running, so the usual voting record zingers will be going both ways.

664 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:53:15pm

re: #661 Ojoe

Because it is easier to think in the countryside.

LOL!

Hey! I live in a really Blue City.......

665 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:53:25pm

re: #656 Opilio Hey thanks! Uh, what county is that one that's dark green for Obama on the top right of the map?

666 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:54:37pm

re: #665 realwest

Hey thanks! Uh, what county is that one that's dark green for Obama on the top right of the map?

OR County map.

667 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:54:49pm

I'm off to bed. I'm tired of the relentless onslaught of moonbattery.

668 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:56:07pm

re: #666 jcm OK, so WTF is in Wallawalla and Union counties? Big cities or big college towns?

669 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:59:06pm

re: #650 Picayune

No, typing in the comment # doesn't work either. The top of your comment looks like this:

#650 Picayune 5/20/08 10:47:53 pm reply quote report

See the word "reply"? That's a link to the comment you're replying to. The "quote" one is similar. Charles put those there on purpose, as a courtesy, so that we can refer back to your reference with ease.

If you're not going to use them, please acknowledge that you are somehow above being courteous to the rest of us.

670 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 10:59:26pm

re: #668 realwest

OK, so WTF is in Wallawalla and Union counties? Big cities or big college towns?

That country is pretty rural, however it's becoming wine country.

671 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:00:33pm

re: #653 DesertSage Hello my friend, well unlike grumpy big dog, at least you didn't infer that I was spouting moobattery!
But I do remember those points, but surely don't remember his coming out for more refinaries, or nuclear plants or any real alterantive fuel that doesn't take food off - so far - third world plates.
He really needs to pour this shitty economy and the shitty oil/gas situation on the Dems, mostly because he'd be right about that and also because it'll play well with the voters.
That's our one HUGE advantage in this election: We have Ideas, they have Slogans.

672 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:01:07pm

re: #668 realwest

OK, so WTF is in Wallawalla and Union counties? Big cities or big college towns?

The numbers for Union county
Hillary Clinton . . . . . . . . 1,383 43.61
Barack Obama . . . . . . . . . 1,715 54.08

673 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:01:31pm

re: #670 jcm Then I really don't see why they went for Obama in such a big way!

674 X-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:01:39pm

re: #649 itellu3times

I'm going off history the sauds screwed us big time in the 70s. Texas and Oklahoma went boom to bust because of OPEC. The fear lingers but I think you are right with worldwide demand they can't pull that shit again. Easy for me to say since I'm not betting $30,000,000 on a gasification plant. This session of the senate and congress has proved we don't have a majority who care about us in Washington or that those that have been voted in don't have functioning synapses.

675 realwest  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:03:28pm

Well it's been interesting y'all but I gotta get to sleep NOW - lots of chores to do tomorrow.
Hope all y'all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you down the road.

Goodnight All.

676 gop_patriot  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:04:07pm

re: #675 realwest

Goodnight, realwest! :) Sleep well.

677 itellu3times  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:04:57pm

re: #674 X-ray

I'm going off history the sauds screwed us big time in the 70s. Texas and Oklahoma went boom to bust because of OPEC. The fear lingers but I think you are right with worldwide demand they can't pull that shit again. Easy for me to say since I'm not betting $30,000,000 on a gasification plant. This session of the senate and congress has proved we don't have a majority who care about us in Washington or that those that have been voted in don't have functioning synapses.

Every problem is an opportunity.

I heard that somewhere, I'm not just being hyperbolic again! Or maybe I am ...

678 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:05:18pm

re: #675 realwest

'Nite, {realwest}!

679 gop_patriot  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:05:51pm

re: #678 LeePro

Hi, Lee, how are you? :) Enjoying the warm sunny weather?

680 DesertSage  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:06:00pm

re: #676 gop_patriot

Goodnight, realwest! :) Sleep well.

'nite real. Weet dreams.

681 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:06:33pm

re: #679 gop_patriot

Hi, Lee, how are you? :) Enjoying the warm sunny weather?

Love it! ! !
How are you?

682 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:07:09pm

re: #673 realwest

Then I really don't see why they went for Obama in such a big way!

I was thinking it might be Native Americans. But it looks like they went more to Clinton.

Not sure, retirees looking for scenic beauty?

683 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:07:21pm

re: #653 DesertSage

"Gulf state[s]" already do allow for drilling off their coasts... except for Florida. It is the Floridians who don't want to see oil rigs off their shores. Same for the Californians. Yes, NIMBYism.

And, you seem to think there is an infinite source of drilling rigs out there... why waste them (expensive) on wildcat fancies off the rest of the coast?

And for ND.... the problem there is flow rates. The recent USGS report, even though increasing the technically recoverable oil significantly (to around 3 or 4 billion barrels) over the old report, nevertheless shows how disperse the resource is. In other words, I've not found anyone (from searching online) who would reasonably believe the daily production rate out of the Bakken formation will be significant (e.g., only a few hundred thousand barrels a day.)

So these are not "magic wands", to use a term the GWB used recently.

There is no way around conservation, if you want to significantly reduce US oil use in the near term.

684 UncleSam  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:07:30pm

The environuts have crippled the US in the energy game, which is what their intention has been all along.
They are communists who have used enviromentalist fervor to destroy the US economy.

685 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:07:42pm

re: #675 realwest

Well it's been interesting y'all but I gotta get to sleep NOW - lots of chores to do tomorrow.
Hope all y'all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you down the road.

Goodnight All.

Night RW!

686 toomanysnax  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:08:12pm

re: #4 maddogg

Hot gas, just hot gas. Called Ted Kennedy Ed Kennedy.

Is Ed sick too?

687 gop_patriot  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:08:44pm

re: #681 LeePro

Awesome, I love this weather. 80s and sunny. My best friend from Memphis called me tonight and told me she was having her pool "grand opening" next week or so, at her new house (still clearing it up, needed new filters). :) So the kids and I are going to head over to help them break it in, I can't wait!

688 X-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:09:28pm

re: #677 itellu3times

I think that at our current state in politics hyperbole unfortunately is necessary. Don't disagree with your solutions just giving reasons that I can live with why they aren't happening.

689 jcm  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:10:14pm

I'm out to.

How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!


Samuel Adams

690 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:12:19pm

re: #677 itellu3times

You're pressing my Catholic Guilt button.

691 wolfie  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:12:33pm

re: #682 jcm

I was thinking it might be Native Americans. But it looks like they went more to Clinton.

Not sure, retirees looking for scenic beauty?

Isn't there a university in Walla Walla? Where is Wash State?
Seems to me I saw a football game going on in Walla Walla once.
(Typical White Easterner's mindset about the West!)

692 gop_patriot  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:13:04pm

re: #684 UncleSam

The environuts have crippled the US in the energy game, which is what their intention has been all along.
They are communists who have used enviromentalist fervor to destroy the US economy.

Very astute, although I think that there are those environmentalists who really, truly believe they're doing the right thing for the earth. But so many are just commies looking for another way to bring the US down from within. Just MHO.

693 wolfie  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:17:23pm

re: #692 gop_patriot

Very astute, although I think that there are those environmentalists who really, truly believe they're doing the right thing for the earth. But so many are just commies looking for another way to bring the US down from within. Just MHO.

Yes. Many are just adolescents, either chronologically or otherwise, who have never struggled to pay a utility bill. They've always been told they can have it all, and so they really believe there is a free lunch.

694 Colonel Panik  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:18:06pm

re: #659 jcm

Obama did better in population centers.

Why am I not surprised. On Brit Hume tonight they were referring to Eugene as a "granola town".

695 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:18:39pm

re: #668 realwest

OK, so WTF is in Wallawalla and Union counties? Big cities or big college towns?

This might sound un-PC, but it's absolutely true and has been covered on polls and in the news.

The places where substantial numbers of whites vote for Senator O are areas where there are few blacks. (I think they have an unrealistic view of Saint Barack the Dark, since they don't have a frame of reference, such as half the people you see every day also being of the black persuasion, like where I live). E.g., Iowa, etc. That might partly explain him getting more votes in a rural substantially white county out in the middle of nowhere.

696 X-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:19:20pm

re: #683 freetoken

With the kind of conservation that is necessary also comes recession. The double edged sword of energy swings like a pendulum. Short term belt tightening may be the only answer now but long term our economy dies without a cheap energy source. Those magic wands as you called them better get waiving now so after 5 years tops of conservation we can get back to making money.

697 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:20:29pm

Chuck Schuldiner, a victim of glioma, died in 2001.

I first became aware of him, and his band Death, somewhere in the late '80s or early '90s.

Unlike most death metal bands, Chuck's lyrics were deep and thought provoking. Songs like Within the Mind [The song and the lyrics], Perennial Quest [the song and the lyrics], and Individual Though Patterns [the song and the lyrics] have left an indelible mark upon my mind, and instilled in me a great appreciation for cognitive thought.

Lately, I have had absolutely nothing to say about a certain news topic, and for good reason.

As for Charles Michael Schuldiner: I miss his music and his intellect, and I morn the loss of such a great and influential man. May he rest in peace.

698 Catttt  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:24:12pm

re: #694 Colonel Panik

Why am I not surprised. On Brit Hume tonight they were referring to Eugene as a "granola town".

I spent a summer in Eugene as a teen (my parents took turns taking summer professional training courses, and it was my mom's turn that year). It it totally granola town. Was then, and I'm sure it is even more so now.

I got to go up to Portland to see the Rolling Stones that summer. :D This was so long ago that Brian Jones was still alive and in the band.

699 UncleSam  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:27:26pm

Eugene has gone way beyond being a granola town.
Now it's a kelp and algae town.

700 RTLM  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:27:26pm

Secretly, Obama is dreading the day he has to sustain a forward head focus into the lens of a live camera.

He's the kind of guy who shakes your hand, but won't look at you.

701 RTLM  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:28:57pm

That was interesting. :)

(11:27:26 x 2)

702 gop_patriot  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:28:59pm

re: #697 Slumbering Behemoth

Thanks for the links, I haven't listened to them in ages. I didn't know that Dave Grohl had asked him to be a part of Probot. Very sad about his death.

703 wolfie  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:29:53pm

re: #695 Catttt

Has to be a bunch of rich whites or university types.

There are very few blacks in Appalachia, and the natives sure as hell aren't falling for the Obamania. One reason is simple........and it is NOT that they are more racist than Oregonians. It is that they are not rich. They just don't feel sorry for blacks and they don't have the white-guilt thing.

704 gop_patriot  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:30:06pm

re: #698 Catttt

What a cool concert that must've been!

/hiya Catttt, hope you're doing well. :)

705 Steffan  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:31:38pm

re: #553 nobs

Please do not tell me the new lyrics have hope and change in them or is it change then hope.

Well, yeah. They couldn't say "Die Fahne hoch" in as many words.

They had to give it that New Russian patina, don't'y'know.

706 freetoken  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:35:43pm

re: #696 X-ray

[...] Short term belt tightening may be the only answer now but long term our economy dies without a cheap available, reliable energy source.

I felt I had to strike "cheap" because I am not sure there will be such a thing, anymore, at least relative to our past costs of energy during most of the 20th century.

This is the tough part. For my part I've reduced my gasoline consumption to a few gallons per month, but my life situation (single, no kids) allows me the liberty to arrange my lifestyle to do this.

As for magic wands... GWB used that term during his big press conference a few weeks back, when some reporter was whining to him about gasoline... which I thought was very honest of the President. Woe to those who want/believe that the POTUS ought to decree gasoline prices...

More on things like Bakken... as noted on this dedicated blog:
The End Of The (C.R.) Line In Mountrail?

The company found virtually no oil shows either in the mid-Bakken or in the shales,indicating that the shales are too shallow to have initiated generation of hydrocarbons. Background gas was only around 30 units when it should be in the thousands. [...]

What makes this somewhat surprising is that this area is only about a half dozen miles northeast of active development in the Austin area of Parshall Field, where some of the most prolific producers have been found.

I'm afraid too many Americans just read the first headline they come across, then stop reading... note all the hoopla over "Bakken" that started a couple of months back, where many bloggers (even ones like Instapundit) just kept repeating the first headlines they read, without digging deeper.

In this case (linked to above) we see what the geologists have been saying (if anyone bothered to listen) - that Bakken is an opportunity for some small oil companies to drill some wells and maybe pump a few thousands of barrels per day, and make a bit of money. It won't make a significant dent into the approximately 11 million barrels of imports (crude + refined product) we import everyday.

In trying to find people actually knowledgeable about the field, one heres likely estimates of 200,000 bpd, maybe a bit more, from Bakken formation. In light of something like this, simply saying "drill more" doesn't mean much....

707 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:36:40pm

re: #639 LeePro

Good question! And I don't know. How do you Google a piece of art?

Sorry, I got distracted by a particular tangent.

I don't know how you would web-search for a piece of art. Anyway, if that piece came from one of his detractors I wouldn't find it all that disturbing.

If it came from one of his supporters, especially if it was endorsed by him or his campaign staff, than I would find that image much more disturbing.

I can clearly see the context of the image, but I cannot clearly see the origin of the image.

708 x-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:38:29pm

The most impressive piece of cognitive dissonance I've ever stumbled upon is in this leftist tool's dream ad for Obama.

709 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:42:50pm

re: #707 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry, I got distracted by a particular tangent.

I don't know how you would web-search for a piece of art. Anyway, if that piece came from one of his detractors I wouldn't find it all that disturbing.

If it came from one of his supporters, especially if it was endorsed by him or his campaign staff, than I would find that image much more disturbing.

I can clearly see the context of the image, but I cannot clearly see the origin of the image.

Maybe the folks at Power Line would know...

...I'd like to know, too.

710 x-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:47:02pm

re: #706 freetoken

Not gonna do the research tonight but overall I believe (and it may be just a dream) that there are enough oil resources available in (North America and it's continental shelf) at $130 a barrel if we let the oil dogs off the leash to hunt it it will be found. The tech and the price IMHO have met.

711 x-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:49:33pm

Hey LeePro hope life is treating you well.

712 LeePro  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:54:35pm

re: #711 x-ray

Hey LeePro hope life is treating you well.

Hey, x-ray! Could be better... and will be after dental stuff is over.

How are you?

713 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:56:26pm

re: #702 gop_patriot

Thanks for the links, I haven't listened to them in ages. I didn't know that Dave Grohl had asked him to be a part of Probot. Very sad about his death.

I was unaware of that Probot part as well. If I may throw this in: the whole Probot project was "big genius" on Grohl's part. A great idea with great results, IMAO.

His death is sad, but his influence was huge. As odd as this may sound, back in the late '80s/early '90s, his music and lyrics had a major impact on the formation of my nascent, conservative mind.

714 x-ray  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:57:57pm

re: #712 LeePro

Doing Ok except for a little insomnia. I need to get back to the dentist been a couple years and I'm dreading it (no problems just fears)

715 Colonel Panik  Tue, May 20, 2008 11:58:11pm

re: #698 Catttt

I spent a summer in Eugene as a teen (my parents took turns taking summer professional training courses, and it was my mom's turn that year). It it totally granola town. Was then, and I'm sure it is even more so now.

I got to go up to Portland to see the Rolling Stones that summer. :D This was so long ago that Brian Jones was still alive and in the band.

I went to U of O for a while. The best thing about Eugene is the bike paths. Charles would like them.

716 Colonel Panik  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:00:41am

re: #698 Catttt

How'd you get that cat to sit so calmly in the bathtub?

That pic just cracks me up.

717 republic  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:02:11am

Hi all Lizards!

All Zionist, conservative, free Lizards!

718 republic  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:03:57am

re: #716 Colonel Panik

How'd you get that cat to sit so calmly in the bathtub?

That pic just cracks me up.


It's probably the "coming down" stage of catnip.

:D

719 Killian Bundy  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:04:22am
people are tired of these huge tax cuts

Why yes, doesn't everyone want their taxes raised?

/why is anyone going to vote for this clown?

720 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:04:25am

re: #713 Slumbering Behemoth

I was unaware of that Probot part as well. If I may throw this in: the whole Probot project was "big genius" on Grohl's part. A great idea with great results, IMAO.

His death is sad, but his influence was huge. As odd as this may sound, back in the late '80s/early '90s, his music and lyrics had a major impact on the formation of my nascent, conservative mind.

I agree, Probot was a great way of getting a few more great works out of some guys that were not recording much anymore. Getting the fathers of metal on record, no pun intended. :)

What's weird to me, is that so many people that I know that listened to hardcore (punk) back in the early 80s are conservative. And alot of that music was more than anti-establishment, it was anti-capitalist, anti-west, and downright anti-freakin-civilization. Or it seemed so to me, as a little conservative 14 year old. LOL

721 freetoken  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:04:46am

Well, the OR SoS computer/office is really dragging now.... something like only 78% precincts counted.

Obama has been holding pretty steady at 58%, but it has been trivially dropping all night.

So it looks like Obama will get enough delegates that his claim of majority of pledged delegates will in fact turn out to be true.

Thus this is likely over, no matter how tenacious Hillary wants to be.

722 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:05:33am

re: #717 republic

Hello! :) How are you?

723 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:05:59am

re: #719 Killian Bundy

Did he actually say that?!?

724 republic  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:06:31am

re: #722 gop_patriot

Hello! :) How are you?


I am just ducky, thank you,

and yourself?

725 Fenway_Nation  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:06:46am

Thousands continue to suffer and die while the Burmese junta uses the Cindy Sheehan/Micheal Moore defense:

Myanmar state-run media: It's all about the oiiiiiiiiil!

I've had it with these subhuman c*cksuckers. If they're worried they're about to be deposed by a quintet of US, British and French warships, then it's not much of a military in the first place....

726 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:08:12am

re: #724 republic

Great, listening to clips of music from 1978 over at iTunes. LOL Adding stuff to my 'shopping cart' to buy later. :)

727 republic  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:10:14am

re: #726 gop_patriot

Great, listening to clips of music from 1978 over at iTunes. LOL Adding stuff to my 'shopping cart' to buy later. :)

That's interesting, I have been scanning YouTube for many tunes from the late 70's, early 80's tonight.

I'm just adding accessories to one of my "black rifles", giddy, with it all, of course.

:)

728 freetoken  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:12:57am

re: #710 x-ray

Not gonna do the research tonight but overall I believe (and it may be just a dream) that there are enough oil resources available in (North America and it's continental shelf) at $130 a barrel if we let the oil dogs off the leash to hunt it it will be found. The tech and the price IMHO have met.

You might want to start here if you haven't already:
National Oil and Gas Assessment

729 republic  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:13:16am

dead thread

You'd think that people would be up, enjoying some of the last free days of this country, which is sinking in a bitter morass of quicksand.

730 LeePro  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:13:21am

re: #724 republic

I am just ducky, thank you,

and yourself?

Is this yours?

731 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:14:35am

re: #725 Fenway_Nation

Special place in hell for these guys.

732 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:15:02am

*sigh* I really can't sleep very well tonight. Here's a pathetic editorial from my local moonbat paper, the Salt Lake Tribune. Tide is against Congressional Republicans, but McCain better.

The threshold for Obama now is no higher than what Reagan faced, but the mental exercise of placing Obama in the Oval Office requires more imagination than did moving Reagan from the silver screen to Pennsylvania Avenue. Obama's name, his face, his whole biography are precedent-setting. People need time to adjust. That's the reason it has been a mistake for him to all but avoid campaigning before skeptical voters in West Virginia and Kentucky. He has to earn the trust of voters like them - and he can't postpone that effort until the fall.

In other words, if we don't vote for him, we're racists. We have to adjust to the idea of a black President. Actually, I think it's more that we'd have to adjust to a freaking socialist -- which I'm hoping and praying will never happen.

Now I'm off to get some nice warm milk. Good night!

re: #729 republic

dead thread

You'd think that people would be up, enjoying some of the last free days of this country, which is sinking in a bitter morass of quicksand.

Ugh. Don't remind me. Now I really won't be able to sleep. ;)

733 republic  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:15:33am

re: #728 freetoken

You might want to start here if you haven't already:
National Oil and Gas Assessment

The U.S. has more untapped oil than all the Middle East, and yet, the Democrats keep it tapped, all the while blaming everything else for high oil prices, mainly, the left's evil word, "profit", and stupoid Amereicans buy into it, hook, line and sinker.

734 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:15:40am

re: #719 Killian Bundy

Why yes, doesn't everyone want their taxes raised?

/why is anyone going to vote for this clown?

didn't he read the article in the WSJ today that showed over time that no matter what the tax rate was, revenue stayed the same and therefore the only way to raise tax revenue was to increase the GDP through pro-growth policys?

/of course he didn't. %-)

735 republic  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:16:35am

re: #730 LeePro

Is this yours?


Yes, yes, yes.

736 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:16:54am

re: #720 gop_patriot

I agree, Probot was a great way of getting a few more great works out of some guys that were not recording much anymore. Getting the fathers of metal on record, no pun intended. :)

What's weird to me, is that so many people that I know that listened to hardcore (punk) back in the early 80s are conservative. And alot of that music was more than anti-establishment, it was anti-capitalist, anti-west, and downright anti-freakin-civilization. Or it seemed so to me, as a little conservative 14 year old. LOL

me and Household 6 *still* go to punk shows....

/my fault %-)

737 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:18:16am

re: #729 republic

dead thread

You'd think that people would be up, enjoying some of the last free days of this country, which is sinking in a bitter morass of quicksand.

i'm to fat to sink and alcohol floats!

/CHANGE!

738 republic  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:18:46am

re: #732 Fat Jolly Penguin

*sigh* I really can't sleep very well tonight. Here's a pathetic editorial from my local moonbat paper, the Salt Lake Tribune. Tide is against Congressional Republicans, but McCain better.


Ugh. Don't remind me. Now I really won't be able to sleep. ;)


Nonesense, none of those clowns can give you peace of mind anyway, find your own, I have.

:)

Sleep well my friend.

739 republic  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:19:25am

re: #737 redc1c4

i'm to fat to sink and alcohol floats!

/CHANGE!


/Drink

:D

740 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:20:45am

re: #730 LeePro

Is this yours?

first couple years we lived here, we'd get a rubber duck for the pool every spring. then some raccoon would come along and try to eat it, resulting in a listing or sinking duck.

/now we just have a floating cover most of the year, but each year someone learns the hard way you can't walk on it.

/nature

741 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:22:41am

re: #736 redc1c4

me and Household 6 *still* go to punk shows....

/my fault %-)

I'm still just sick that I missed the Taste of Chaos* tour when it came through Little Rock. My son and his friend, and his friend's dad went. ARGH!

*Avenged Sevenfold, Atreyu, Bullet For My Valentine, Bless the Fall

742 Fenway_Nation  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:25:24am

re: #731 gop_patriot

Special place in hell for these guys.

The worst part is they're now pandering to the international leftists- watch the Ortegas, Sgrenas and Galloways of the world start parroting the Burmese junta's argument.....

/Dictatorial government not distributing aid to a populace that was in dire straight before any typhoon? Must be America's fault!

743 LeePro  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:25:57am

re: #740 redc1c4

heh

744 freetoken  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:26:01am

re: #733 republic

The U.S. has more untapped oil than all the Middle East,...


Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

745 freetoken  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:28:26am

Yes, a very dead thread...

Just to keep the night owls busy, did anyone check out the exit poll results for KY?

Recommend you go to page 5 at this link:
[Link: edition.cnn.com...]

... at the top of the page, on the Rev. Wright question.

It would seem that if a voter associates Obama as having the same views as Rev. Wright then that is a vote that Obama likely won't get...

746 tokyobk  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:28:48am
Change is an energy policy that doesn't rely on buddying up to the Saudi Royal Family and then begging them for oil

Best line and his complete marginazing of Hillary who is still in it and still getting votes, done with magnaminity is absolutely the right move. He has made this about him and McCain already and he is using his totally unfair press advantage to his use.

I see how people here do not like his politics. It is hard not to admire him, IMO.

747 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:29:40am

re: #733 republic

The U.S. has more untapped oil than all the Middle East, and yet, the Democrats keep it tapped, all the while blaming everything else for high oil prices, mainly, the left's evil word, "profit", and stupoid Amereicans buy into it, hook, line and stinker.

minor typo fixed.... all the rest are intact. %-)

748 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:35:19am

re: #743 LeePro

heh

and here i thought you'd bite on #736...... %-)

early last summer, i was wandering 'round the back yard, and the boys were out with me. i'm on the cell with a fellow reprobate when i heard a ker-plunk splash into the pool. since i was still dry, i feared the worst. cat under the cover.......

turned toward the pool in time to see my Persian haul his drenched ass out of the pool, look at me like it was my fault, & haul ass for the house.

we deduced that there had been a bird walking on the cover, and he had decided to catch it, as is his want.

to this day he walks wide around the pool.

749 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:39:30am

re: #746 tokyobk

Best line and his complete marginazing of Hillary who is still in it and still getting votes, done with magnaminity is absolutely the right move. He has made this about him and McCain already and he is using his totally unfair press advantage to his use.

I see how people here do not like his politics. It is hard not to admire him, IMO.


i find nothing to admire in a sociopath's abilities to commit crimes. i can respect their skills, just as i was always taught to respect the abilities of whatever OPFOR i might face whilst i was in the Army.

there's nothing in those things that says i have to "admire" any of them.

the great waffler is a bullshit artist, plain and simple. he's a liar, a racist, an anti-Semite and does not have America's best interests at heart.

i'd say it's damn hard to admire him.

750 LeePro  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:40:20am

re: #748 redc1c4

and here i thought you'd bite on #736...... %-)

I'm not that easy, young 'un!   ;)

Cat thought he could walk on water... name Barack?

751 BlueCanuck  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:44:10am

re: #734 redc1c4

/de-lurking.

You mean along the lines of the Laffer curve?

752 X-ray  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:44:24am

re: #744 freetoken

Do you have any evidence to support that statement?


No I don't have the evidence to prove you wrong. The question is do you own without mortgage more than enough acres of tillable land to live on if your projections are correct? There is oil in the US maybe not enough to meet all our needs but enough too at least stabilize the current price. If your predictions are correct we are all screwed. If I'm right at least that 401k I invested in isn't worthless.

753 LeePro  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:44:41am

re: #746 tokyobk

Best line and his complete marginazing of Hillary who is still in it and still getting votes, done with magnaminity is absolutely the right move. He has made this about him and McCain already and he is using his totally unfair press advantage to his use.

I see how people here do not like his politics. It is hard not to admire him, IMO.

You might find this useful...

754 RTLM  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:46:33am

Is it alright if I post a pic of a nude woman ?

755 haakondahl  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:47:08am

MSNBC linked by #725 Fenway

Myanmar's xenophobic leaders have long feared an invasion by the United States, moving their capital to a remote area of central Myanmar equipped with bunkers.


Well since their paranoia has resulted in an incipient auto-genocide, let that be a self-fulfilling prophecy. We should be airdropping supplies in the delta, controlling the area from LCACs with USAF and CVN air support, and bombing the crap out of the bunkers in Paranoi City.
There is a viable, wildly popular, JAILED, legally elected leader of the country waiting.
1. Get her out of there.
2. Drop aid and bomb the Capital.
3. Get her back in there.
4. Make nice with China, India, and Malaysia.

756 X-ray  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:49:49am

Goodnight all.
May Tomorrow bring us all that which we deserve.

757 freetoken  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:50:46am

re: #752 X-ray

'republic' made the claim:

The U.S. has more untapped oil than all the Middle East,

which I don't believe, so I was wondering why he believed that.

Whether I am "right" or "wrong" is not as important as all of us doing our best. Whether we be (energy) rich or poor in the future is not, IMO, the most important thing. Rather, I do believe that if we live together respecting each other's liberties, then life will be as best as we can make regardless of oil (or any other resource.)

BTW, I am also convinced that there is enough potential solar, wind, and nuclear (using breeders and/or thorium) energy resource within reach to provide the future American with a reasonably automated and productive lifestyle.

If we try.

758 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:54:59am

re: #754 RTLM

Depends, it's not Hillary, is it?

/oh and speaking as a woman, I'd rather you didn't. but whatever, if Charles doesn't care, I don't.

759 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:55:36am

re: #720 gop_patriot

What's weird to me, is that so many people that I know that listened to hardcore (punk) back in the early 80s are conservative. And alot of that music was more than anti-establishment, it was anti-capitalist, anti-west, and downright anti-freakin-civilization. Or it seemed so to me, as a little conservative 14 year old. LOL

I am not too terribly surprised by that. Those who lived (and survived through) the lifestyle of hardcore punk in the '80s are in their late 30's/early 40's now. You don't get to that age, living through that experience, by being stupid. I see that as a natural progression.

However, there should be a distinction made between punk and death metal form that era. Most punk music then was about progsoc (progressive/socialist) politics, progsoc economics, progsoc social ideals, etc.. While most death metal was about bloody, disturbing imagery.

One exception (in death metal) being Schuldiner's "Death", whose lyrics were primarily about thinking for one's self. Examining life from your own perspective and having the fortitude to do so without being swayed by outside influences. Independent thought and critical analysis were the cornerstones of his lyrics, and incredibly rare in that genre.

760 LeePro  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:57:36am

re: #758 gop_patriot

Depends, it's not Hillary, is it?

/oh and speaking as a woman, I'd rather you didn't. but whatever, if Charles doesn't care, I don't.

Ditto.
Don't start a trend some will regret!

761 RTLM  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:58:03am

re: #758 gop_patriot

Depends, it's not Hillary, is it?

/oh and speaking as a woman, I'd rather you didn't. but whatever, if Charles doesn't care, I don't.

Naw - I'm off to bed.

762 LeePro  Wed, May 21, 2008 12:59:15am

Well I'll tell ya' what, Lizards. Late just gets here way too early these days!

¦O ya-a-a-w-w-w-n-n-n

G'nite, {everybody}!

763 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:00:41am

re: #751 BlueCanuck

/de-lurking.

You mean along the lines of the Laffer curve?

nope. pretty much the tax rate line moves up & down, but the revenue line is as flat as a moon bats EEG.

764 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:01:27am

re: #750 LeePro

I'm not that easy, young 'un! %u2003 ;)

Cat thought he could walk on water... name Barack?

naw, he's Hairy Callahan.... the rules don't apply to him. toughest thing on four legs anywhere: just ask him. %-)

765 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:04:21am

re: #754 RTLM

Is it alright if I post a pic of a nude woman ?

fine by me..... Charles might have a different view.

766 BlueCanuck  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:04:54am

Night { { {LeePro} } }, have a good night sleep.

767 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:07:03am

re: #754 RTLM


Is it alright if I post a pic of a nude woman ?

Ha ha ha! How about you "creatively describe" the url/location in such a way that we can find it for ourselves.

768 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:13:47am

re: #764 redc1c4

naw, he's Hairy Callahan.... the rules don't apply to him. toughest thing on four legs anywhere: just ask him. %-)

Nice for him, I won't get in his way, but a cat's gotta know his limitations.

769 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:16:42am

re: #759 Slumbering Behemoth

One exception (in death metal) being Schuldiner's "Death", whose lyrics were primarily about thinking for one's self. Examining life from your own perspective and having the fortitude to do so without being swayed by outside influences. Independent thought and critical analysis were the cornerstones of his lyrics, and incredibly rare in that genre.

I'll need to go back and re-listen to their lyrics. I never paid a whole lot of attention before, that genre really wasn't my thing. Maybe because I'm female, my guy friends were much more into the death metal stuff than I was. :)

770 moriarity  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:19:49am

re: #4 maddogg

If I'm not mistaken, "Ted's" legal first name is Edward.

771 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:26:09am

re: #768 Slumbering Behemoth

Nice for him, I won't get in his way, but a cat's gotta know his limitations.

he doesn't like catsup on his hot dogs, so he's ok. he did try to join the raccoon family one night though.......

BTW: *this* is his theme song......

772 moriarity  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:27:02am

re: #4 maddogg

If I'm not mistaken, "Ted's" legal first name is Edward.

773 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:28:17am

you can't soak the rich: Hauser's Law

774 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:29:45am

re: #762 LeePro

Goodnight, Lee! Sleep well. :)

775 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:31:44am

re: #772 moriarity

hiccup? :)

Welcome! I think maddog's gone, if you're waiting for a response from him. I didn't watch or listen to the speech, myself, so I don't know what Obama said.

776 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:38:00am

re: #769 gop_patriot

I'll need to go back and re-listen to their lyrics. I never paid a whole lot of attention before, that genre really wasn't my thing. Maybe because I'm female, my guy friends were much more into the death metal stuff than I was.

The genre doesn't appeal to most people, regardless of their gender. Despite being a die-hard metal-head, I find most death metal to be "off putting". Most of it sounds like hand grenades in a cement mixer to me.

Death was different though, unique to the genre. Almost an abnormality. Funny that Chuck is credited with creating the genre, while being so very different to it as a whole.

777 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:44:35am

re: #776 Slumbering Behemoth

The genre doesn't appeal to most people, regardless of their gender. Despite being a die-hard metal-head, I find most death metal to be "off putting". Most of it sounds like hand grenades in a cement mixer to me.

Death was different though, unique to the genre. Almost an abnormality. Funny that Chuck is credited with creating the genre, while being so very different to it as a whole.

i always found grenades to be musically interesting....

the whole "scrape, rustle, ping, pop, sizzle, whoosh/boom" thing is a nice asymmetric series of sounds that are ripe for creative exploration.

/that and i liked BSU. %-)

778 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:50:13am

re: #771 redc1c4

BTW: *this* is his theme song......

779 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:51:42am

well isn't *this* a lovely OpEd?

As Isolated POW, McCain Didn't Learn Correct Liberal Lessons in Vietnam

/spit

780 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 1:53:28am

re: #778 Slumbering Behemoth

he's all of about 8 pounds, but to hear him tell it, it's all piss & vinegar.

/5 minutes later, he's playing "cute kitty". (go figure %-)

781 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:00:01am

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet ---------------------->
Help yourselves!

782 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:01:49am

re: #781 littleoldlady

Right on the nose. :) Good morning!

783 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:02:17am

gop! :-)

Close, anyway. ;-)

784 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:02:25am

Morning folks - what's new?

785 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:02:51am

Littleoldlady! I'm in time for the fruitcup! How're you?

786 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:03:34am

granny! :-)

Bon appetit! I'm okay, thanks for asking. You?

787 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:06:16am

Aw, fer the love of....
I am off my mark for sure, I'll try again and make it quick.

re: #771 redc1c4

BTW: *this* is his theme song......

"He picks up a bus and he throws it back down" is a lyrical verse that has made me laugh since I was a kid (yes, I'm a youngin' here). It never fails to make me smile.

re: #777 redc1c4

the whole "scrape, rustle, ping, pop, sizzle, whoosh/boom" thing is a nice asymmetric series of sounds that are ripe for creative exploration.

You are a very strange individual. With all sincerity, I mean that in a good way.

Now then, I should log off before I start arguing with myself, which is bound to happen considering my current rate of consumption.

G'nite Lizards!

788 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:08:18am

re: #786 littleoldlady

granny! :-)

Bon appetit! I'm okay, thanks for asking. You?

Oh I'm good. I finally got all the baby 'maters and peppers potted up yesterday. The entire deck is covered LOL.

789 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:08:20am

re: #784 galloping granny

Good morning, gg! :)

re: #787 Slumbering Behemoth

And good night, SB, sleep well. :)

790 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:09:29am

re: #789 gop_patriot

Good morning, gg! :)

re: #787 Slumbering Behemoth

And good night, SB, sleep well. :)

Morning gop_patriot. How're you?

Anybody listen to Obamessiah's victory speech last night?

791 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:10:44am

re: #787 Slumbering Behemoth

Aw, fer the love of....
I am off my mark for sure, I'll try again and make it quick.


You are a very strange individual. With all sincerity, I mean that in a good way.

Now then, I should log off before I start arguing with myself, which is bound to happen considering my current rate of consumption.

G'nite Lizards!

i wouldn't take it any other way...... that was an approximation of the salient sounds of a grenade activation, from my misspent youth.

/stay up and drink with me?

792 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:13:11am

re: #790 galloping granny

Great, not sleeping like a normal person, but still, doing good. LOL Just awake and listening to some music.

I didn't hear the speech, there are some good comments upthread about it though. :)

793 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:14:23am

re: #790 galloping granny

I didn't. But I'm starting to get nervous again. :-(

/and I was doing so well...

It's looking more and more like there's going to be an Obama-Hillary ticket.

794 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:17:06am

re: #793 littleoldlady

I didn't. But I'm starting to get nervous again. :-(

/and I was doing so well...

It's looking more and more like there's going to be an Obama-Hillary ticket.

You know, the talking heads were really pushing that last night, but I don't see that at all. Maybe a Hillary-Obama ticket, but I cannot see her (or Bill) taking second seat - essentially a powerless position - as lady in waiting to a know-nothing first-term Senator with no voting record who just happens to be half black.

795 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:18:27am

re: #793 littleoldlady

I didn't. But I'm starting to get nervous again. :-(

/and I was doing so well...

It's looking more and more like there's going to be an Obama-Hillary ticket.

the only good thing about that is that now i'll need a few more drinks before i can go to sleep.....

/still think that would be like putting different bugs in a jar to see who eats who.

796 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:19:24am

re: #794 galloping granny

You know, the talking heads were really pushing that last night, but I don't see that at all. Maybe a Hillary-Obama ticket, but I cannot see her (or Bill) taking second seat - essentially a powerless position - as lady in waiting to a know-nothing first-term Senator with no voting record who just happens to be half black.

and he's not even that.......

/nice ears though! %-)

797 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:21:40am

re: #794 galloping granny

If I were Hillary, I would NOT want to be associated with someone who, if elected (G-d forbid!), will be an utter failure.

Hiya red! :-)

798 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:23:02am

re: #791 redc1c4

I'm drinking, if it makes you feel any better. Kind of sad and a little boring drinking beer alone at 4am, but here I am. The loud music I'm listening to on my headphones helps though.

799 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:23:54am

re: #796 redc1c4

and he's not even that.......

/nice ears though! %-)

I agree - but that is the mantle he has adopted. What has really surprised me is the way the media, including Fox, has gone far and away overboard to connect Obama over and over to Ted Kennedy's tragedy. I didn't see them giving the same air time to Hillary's or McCain's statements about Ted, and either of them has known Ted Kennedy far longer than Obama has.

But then lately I don't think Fox is all that "fair and balanced" about this election. Sure some individuals there don't support Obama, but as an institution they give Obama the lion's share in a big way. Not a day goes by that he does not have at least one story - usually several - on the top left of the page. They also tend to show his speeches in their entirety, but not Hillary's or McCain's.

800 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:25:01am

re: #798 gop_patriot

Hey! What are WE - chopped liver?! You're not alone!

/you just think you are... ;-)

801 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:25:20am

re: #779 redc1c4

well isn't *this* a lovely OpEd?

As Isolated POW, McCain Didn't Learn Correct Liberal Lessons in Vietnam

/spit

Just when I'm ready to knock off, you pull me back in.

*spit* indeed!

Be sure to link that original article tomorrow/later today at peak time. That needs to be seen.


...McCain, who was shot down and captured in 1967, spent the worst and most costly years of the war sealed away, both from the rice paddies of Indochina and from the outside world. During those years, McCain did not share the disillusioning and morally jarring experiences of soldiers like Kerry, Webb and Hagel...

Yeah, I'm sure it was a real f*ckin cake-walk for McCain, spending all that time in his ivory tower bamboo pit.

F*cking despicable garbage. It is unconscionable that such nonsense is called journalism.

Oh, the words that want to tear away from my fingers right now...

I really need to log off, G'nite Lizards.

802 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:25:38am

re: #797 littleoldlady

If I were Hillary, I would NOT want to be associated with someone who, if elected (G-d forbid!), will be an utter failure.

Hiya red! :-)

She just does not and never has seemed to me to be the kind who would gracefully accept the booby prize.

803 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:26:11am

re: #799 galloping granny

But then lately I don't think Fox is all that "fair and balanced" about this election. Sure some individuals there don't support Obama, but as an institution they give Obama the lion's share in a big way. Not a day goes by that he does not have at least one story - usually several - on the top left of the page. They also tend to show his speeches in their entirety, but not Hillary's or McCain's.

That is so true, I've noticed that also.

804 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:30:29am

re: #800 littleoldlady

Hey! What are WE - chopped liver?! You're not alone!

/you just think you are... ;-)

LOL! Why, thank you. :)
My out of whack sleeping habits are driving my husband crazy. Doesn't bother me too much, but then I really don't require much sleep. And sitting here reading and listening to music is so much better than laying in bed trying to force myself to sleep!

805 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:30:46am

re: #798 gop_patriot

I'm drinking, if it makes you feel any better. Kind of sad and a little boring drinking beer alone at 4am, but here I am. The loud music I'm listening to on my headphones helps though.

how about some GFI?

806 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:34:48am

re: #804 gop_patriot

LOL! Why, thank you. :)
My out of whack sleeping habits are driving my husband crazy. Doesn't bother me too much, but then I really don't require much sleep. And sitting here reading and listening to music is so much better than laying in bed trying to force myself to sleep!

Nothing in this world is worse for insomnia than laying in bed trying to force yourself to sleep.

807 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:36:50am

re: #806 galloping granny

Nothing in this world is worse for insomnia than laying in bed trying to force yourself to sleep.

how about laying in bed trying to stay awake?

/white smoke

808 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:38:10am

Hooo Boy - best head off to the Jerusalem Post folks. Banner at the top of the page - Israel officially announces peace talks with Syria

And it is all downhill from there. Talks being held under auspices of Turkey, Russia supplying arms to Syria - including MiGs. . . .

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

809 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:38:44am

re: #805 redc1c4

Tight sound, the lead has a good voice for hardcore. I have to admit, I've never heard of them. Or I might have, and just forgot. lol

/When she said "punk rock porno band", I was reeeaallly worried that one of those guys was going to take his clothes off. Eewww. ROFLOL

810 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:39:11am

re: #791 redc1c4

Lizard Red, I would love nothing more than to stay up and drink with you, but I have two problems:

1) I am tapped out, there is no more left here.

2) Cut off is 2:00 am, there is none available for sale now.

C) I am slowly getting sober tired, and really should hit the sack.

/Ok, that's three problems

G'nite Red, g'nite Lizards.

811 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:39:14am

Man, I thought Olmert would be canned before it came to that.

:-( :-( :-(

812 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:42:53am

'Night, Slumbering :-)

813 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:43:56am

re: #810 Slumbering Behemoth

Lizard Red, I would love nothing more than to stay up and drink with you, but I have two problems:

1) I am tapped out, there is no more left here.

2) Cut off is 2:00 am, there is none available for sale now.

C) I am slowly getting sober tired, and really should hit the sack.

/Ok, that's three problems

G'nite Red, g'nite Lizards.

"Logistics is the ball and chain of armored warfare. " (and drinking %-)
Guderian

/i'll cover your move to the BSA for resupply

"CHANGE!"

814 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:44:04am

re: #808 galloping granny

That's horrible. WHY do they do this? Do they really think talking with these despicable POSs will work?

Then there's this...
Hamas says gunman killed when bomb explodes prematurely


Hamas on Wednesday said one of its gunmen was killed south of Gaza City.

The group's military wing said in a statement that a member was killed on a "holy mission."

The term is used when a Hamas gunman dies in a premature explosion meant to target Israel.

815 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:44:27am

Also from the Jpost - a video of Clare Short (UK) on Al Jazeera talking about prosecuting Bush for war crimes, using the example of Pinochet. Worth watching but I can't isolate the thing to post a specific link. Down the page on the left.

816 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:44:32am

re: #810 Slumbering Behemoth

Goodnight, sleep well. :)

817 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:46:08am

re: #811 littleoldlady

Man, I thought Olmert would be canned before it came to that.

:-( :-( :-(

It is absolutely astounding to me that he is still in charge in Israel. It makes it seem to me at least like the Israelis have a collective death wish. G_d knows if anyone knows about the futility of appeasement it should be the people of Israel.

818 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:47:30am

re: #814 gop_patriot

That's horrible. WHY do they do this? Do they really think talking with these despicable POSs will work?

Then there's this...
Hamas says gunman killed when bomb explodes prematurely

And Hizball'ah was given veto power over the Lebanese government -
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

819 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:47:56am

re: #809 gop_patriot

Tight sound, the lead has a good voice for hardcore. I have to admit, I've never heard of them. Or I might have, and just forgot. lol

/When she said "punk rock porno band", I was reeeaallly worried that one of those guys was going to take his clothes off. Eewww. ROFLOL

if you want, email me and i can get you a cd or 3 to listen to/share with friends..... OPSEC applies to any personal info, btw.

(and no $ %-)

820 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:51:37am

re: #817 galloping granny

Their system of government (and inherent corruption, not to mention an elite ruling class) makes it very difficult to get rid of him.

His approval rating is single digit.

821 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:52:57am

re: #820 littleoldlady

Their system of government (and inherent corruption, not to mention an elite ruling class) makes it very difficult to get rid of him.

His approval rating is single digit.

It seems to me to be almost a crime to allow someone with that low an approval rating to remain in office while he literally gives away the country.

822 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:53:45am

re: #821 galloping granny

It seems to me to be almost a crime to allow someone with that low an approval rating to remain in office while he literally gives away the country.

But then if Obamessiah somehow manages to gain the presidency, we might be facing exactly the same here.

823 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:55:27am

re: #821 galloping granny

It seems to me to be almost a crime to allow someone with that low an approval rating to remain in office while he literally gives away the country.

the people have enough guns, you think they would solve the problem....

/different cultures

824 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:57:31am

re: #822 galloping granny

But then if Obamessiah somehow manages to gain the presidency, we might be facing exactly the same here.


that'll cause a fight, and i don't mean words.

825 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:57:34am

Carl in Jerusalem says that the prevailing attitude in Israel is "every man for himself", to the exclusion of what's best for the country.

You're right, granny. I can see that happening here with an Obama presidency...

826 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:58:27am

re: #823 redc1c4

I have been wondering for some time now why either the people have not rebelled against him outright or someone has not tried to assassinate him.

827 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 2:59:07am

re: #819 redc1c4

Cool! That would be good. Do you know the band?

/I'll email you tomorrow, if you don't mind... I don't feel like opening my email right now. ROFL How's that for lazy? (really, it'll just gum up the works, slow everything down and take forever to download a bunch of stuff I won't read anyway... old computer bleah)

828 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:00:27am

re: #825 littleoldlady

Carl in Jerusalem says that the prevailing attitude in Israel is "every man for himself", to the exclusion of what's best for the country.

You're right, granny. I can see that happening here with an Obama presidency...

Obama wants to make too many changes that are at complete odds with virtually any American values. He would ration our health care (but not his!), take away our SUVs, ration our food and heating oil, raise taxes markedly. . . .

829 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:02:26am

Morning all. Obama organizer Paul Tewes in discussions to run DNC
The kiddies are running the kindergarten. Tewes was the architect of Obama's Iowa caucus victory. There's a whole world of difference in that and a national election. This will be interesting.

830 rightside  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:03:23am

Morning Lizards!

831 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:03:39am

re: #828 galloping granny

Without Hillary attached to him I don't believe he can win. Alone he has about 1/2 of the Dems.

/and a lot of pissed off Dem women moving to McCain

832 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:05:19am

re: #831 littleoldlady

Without Hillary attached to him I don't believe he can win. Alone he has about 1/2 of the Dems.

/and a lot of pissed off Dem women moving to McCain

I'm not at all sure that Hillary will fix that either. Especially not as a VP because that just emphasizes her disenfranchisement.

833 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:05:35am

Morning rightside! How're things?

834 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:06:52am

re: #831 littleoldlady

Without Hillary attached to him I don't believe he can win. Alone he has about 1/2 of the Dems.

/and a lot of pissed off Dem women moving to McCain

You know, I heard something interesting last night. Somebody was interpreting Geraldine Ferraro's statements yesterday as giving permission for Hillary supporters to vote their conscience rather than the democrat party.

835 Jim in Virginia  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:07:00am

Senator Lieberman: Democrats and our enemies.

He'll make a lot of people mad at him. Again.

836 rightside  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:07:14am

re: #833 galloping granny

morning, gg! Things are well here, expecting an afternoon shower again. How are you?

837 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:07:21am

My Rove! :-)

rightside! :-)

838 rightside  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:08:47am

re: #837 littleoldlady

{lol}

839 galloping granny  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:09:23am

re: #836 rightside

morning, gg! Things are well here, expecting an afternoon shower again. How are you?

I'm good. Finally got all the 'maters and peppers potted up so as soon as it warms up I'm off up the hill to dig up the asparagus that miraculously reappeared in the garden.

And would you believe the kiddo found morels in the back yard yesterday? I'm hoping there will be enough for a meal.

840 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:11:39am

re: #835 Jim in Virginia


This happy development continued into the 2000 campaign, when the Democratic candidate – Vice President Gore – championed a freedom-focused foreign policy, confident of America's moral responsibilities in the world, and unafraid to use our military power. He pledged to increase the defense budget by $50 billion more than his Republican opponent – and, to the dismay of the Democratic left, made sure that the party's platform endorsed a national missile defense.

By contrast, in 2000, Gov. George W. Bush promised a "humble foreign policy" and criticized our peacekeeping operations in the Balkans.

Today, less than a decade later, the parties have completely switched positions. The reversal began, like so much else in our time, on September 11, 2001. The attack on America by Islamist terrorists shook President Bush from the foreign policy course he was on. He saw September 11 for what it was: a direct ideological and military attack on us and our way of life. If the Democratic Party had stayed where it was in 2000, America could have confronted the terrorists with unity and strength in the years after 9/11.

Ooh, way to go, Leiberman.

841 gop_patriot  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:12:24am

Good morning, rightside and Jim. :)

Time for me to head out, I'm finally tired. Have a great morning, y'all.

842 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:13:57am

'Night gop! :-)

/so...do I climb up to the new thread or say goodbye here?

843 rightside  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:14:08am

re: #841 gop_patriot

Thanks, same to you!

844 redc1c4  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:14:35am

re: #827 gop_patriot

Cool! That would be good. Do you know the band?

/I'll email you tomorrow, if you don't mind... I don't feel like opening my email right now. ROFL How's that for lazy? (really, it'll just gum up the works, slow everything down and take forever to download a bunch of stuff I won't read anyway... old computer bleah)

Nick & i used to steal cars together...... so yeah, i know the band.

/there was no code

845 littleoldlady  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:14:57am

Say goodbye here...

Good day, ALL!™

846 rightside  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:16:08am

re: #845 littleoldlady

take care!

847 Annar  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:16:30am

A new Orwellian art form, Polspeak, empty words strung together with arm waving gestures. Courses on the subject will be offered on the subject at leading universities just in time for the Fall campaign.

848 Karridine  Wed, May 21, 2008 3:18:01am
"But some suspect that whatever lesson McCain took away from his time in Vietnam, it was not the one that stayed with his colleagues who were "in country" during those years -- that some wars simply can't be won on the battlefield, no matter how long you fight them, no matter how many soldiers you send there to die."

If THAT is supposed to be the 'lesson' to take away from Vietnam, count me FIRMLY, STEADFASTLY WITH McCAIN!

MY takeaway is that SOME WARS can be LOST to traitors on the homefront, 'Winter Soldier' America-hating egotists who deal treasonably with the enemy while IN-UNIFORM and hold press conferences to vilify and condemn the American troops WINNING the BATTLEFIELD WAR, eh, Kerry?

/unnngh, hawwwwk, SPIT!

849 pittrader1988  Wed, May 21, 2008 4:26:09am

you can tell he's a lawyer. words mean nothing.

850 ibmkeyboard  Wed, May 21, 2008 4:30:09am

re: #848 Karridine

If THAT is supposed to be the 'lesson' to take away from Vietnam, count me FIRMLY, STEADFASTLY WITH McCAIN!

MY takeaway is that SOME WARS can be LOST to traitors on the home front, 'Winter Soldier' America-hating egotists who deal treasonable with the enemy.


She had a personal vision for the future of American air crews.


[Link: www.imdb.com...]

851 ibmkeyboard  Wed, May 21, 2008 4:33:39am

Bitch

852 Checker77  Wed, May 21, 2008 4:46:09am

Look's like Sen. Obama is being disingenuous again.
[Link: newsbusters.org...]

853 yankeeseven  Wed, May 21, 2008 5:44:26am

I just crunched the numbers since Penn ie the last Rev Wright outburst...Hillary is ahead by 300K votes and yet they say she can't win. Looked at the numbers on RCP and, lo and behold, 84% of Hillary supporters say Obama agrees with Wright.

I believe this situation is EXACTLY why the Dems came up with the SuperDelegate nonsense in the first place. I just think they didn't expect to have to use them on the first viable black guy.

854 jOjOEofArcadia  Wed, May 21, 2008 5:49:14am

re: #41 IslandLibertarian
His father was 1/8th African-American, then he is only 1/16th African-American, at best, legally. In fact, Nobama is actually 7/16ths Arab-American.
/no one can refute this!

855 Cap'n DOC  Wed, May 21, 2008 5:54:25am

re: #850 ibmkeyboard

Don't get me started on that woman. Even the mention of her name raises my blood pressure.

856 venezuela lover  Wed, May 21, 2008 6:04:34am

re: #165 Opinionated

That's because you've heard it all before.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right

Very appropriate words about Obama, thanks
Beatles Revolution

857 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, May 21, 2008 6:48:08am

re: #835 Jim in Virginia

Very nice! Great success!

Cue progressive seething in 5..4..3..

858 nobs  Wed, May 21, 2008 7:44:50am

re: #852 Checker77

Look's like Sen. Obama is being disingenuous again.
[Link: newsbusters.org...]

Check out my #516
We have been had!

859 kansas  Wed, May 21, 2008 7:48:58am

From Powerline

Can someone explain why it is, exactly, that Barack Obama is not a laughingstock?


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