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Obama: Bush is Responsible for Chavez (Bzzt! Wrong!)

Sun, May 25, 2008 at 9:06:22 am PDT

On Friday Barack Obama spelled out his Latin America policy (it’s just like his Middle East policy—talk to everybody), and inadvertently supplied another example of his stunning ignorance of history and naive foreign policy ideas. The speech is transcribed at the official Obama campaign web site: Renewing U.S. Leadership in the Americas.

Since the Bush Administration launched a misguided war in Iraq, its policy in the Americas has been negligent toward our friends, ineffective with our adversaries, disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives, and incapable of advancing our interests in the region.

No wonder, then, that demagogues like Hugo Chavez have stepped into this vacuum.

This is pathetic. Hugo Chavez came to power during the Clinton Administration, and was first elected President of Venezuela in 1998, two years before the Bush Administration took office.

UPDATE at 5/25/08 9:15:04 am:

This is far from the first time Barack Obama has been wrong about a simple historical fact.

I’d like to hear him answer some simple questions about world history, to see exactly how much he really does know. No blow-dried media talking head will ever do this, of course, but I suspect people would be in for a real shock if they knew the depths of his historical ignorance.

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297 comments

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1 Sharmuta  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:09:05am

Why let a little thing like the facts disrupt his visions of Change?

2 Dave the.....  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:09:22am

That's change he can believe in.

(not sure what that means, but I like to post that everytime B Hussien Obama says something stupid)

3 uncle_monkey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:09:27am

Everything is Bush's fault. Slavery. The Spanish American War. The Rodney King Beating. You name it. Don't be fooled by such minor details as chronological time. It's all an illusion.

4 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:09:57am

I wonder if he will mention HIS OWN PARTY THE DEMOCRATS torpedoing that fair trade agreement with our Allie Columbia? This guy just keeps stepping in it.

5 NTropy  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:10:16am

He would have been better off had he said he would do everything in his power to support Colombia, a friend who has been sorely abused lately. But that doesn't fit the leftist narrative does it?

6 Sharmuta  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:10:16am

When it comes to marxists- facts usually are the first causality.

7 newsjunkie_ky  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:10:19am

barack hussein obama is an idiot, plain and simple.

8 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:10:44am

Daily, I share Obama's gaffes of the day with friends. Everyday they ask: What'd he say today? Never have I not had a new one.

9 TimK  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:11:02am

Youtube is going to have a field day with Obama this fall.
Comparing his experience of being a "Community Organizer" with the real world experience needed to deal with thugs is going to be will be a fertile field.

10 AuntAcid  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:11:19am

Yea...well...like sharmuta said...I don't need no stinkin' facts.

11 Onslow  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:11:37am

Obama is making me question the value of an Ivy League education.

12 MJ  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:11:42am
"Since the Bush Administration launched a misguided war in Iraq, its policy in the Americas has been negligent toward our friends, ineffective with our adversaries, disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives, and incapable of advancing our interests in the region."


Well, our first "interests" should be in keeping illegals out of this country. And Obama has nothing to say about that ( for that matter, GWB hasn't exactly been in the forefront of that issue either).

13 The Other Les  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:11:49am

re: #3 uncle_monkey

Everything is Bush's fault. Slavery. The Spanish American War. The Rodney King Beating. You name it. Don't be fooled by such minor details as chronological time. It's all an illusion.

So President Bush is eternal, like God?

14 Dave the.....  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:12:43am

Hey, the moral equivalence type hype is in overdrive today:

Obama's longtime close relationship with Wright is no different then some goofy pastor endorsing McCain.

Obama wants to give to give free college to anyone who serves as little as 3 years, McCain wants it tied to length of service, therefore, McCain hates our military, according to the Democrats.

15 uncle_monkey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:12:48am

re: #9 TimK

Youtube is going to have a field day with Obama this fall.
Comparing his experience of being a "Community Organizer" with the real world experience needed to deal with thugs is going to be will be a fertile field.

The moonbats will be having a field day flagging any "anti-Obama" videos as inappropriate.

16 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:13:01am

Cease with your agenda to pursue facts and policy issues! This is the Messiah speaking!

17 uncle_monkey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:13:24am

re: #13 The Other Les

So President Bush is eternal, like God?

Exactly, only different.

18 average_guy  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:13:44am

This is the kind of thing that the media will propogate into revisionist history should BHO be elected. It happens in every marxist regime.

19 billypaintbrush  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:13:57am

This must be why the messiah has been pushing to ratify the agreement with Columbia. oh, wait...

20 Athens Runaway  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:14:04am

LibeRule 4: All human history started on September 11, 2001. Everything else is prehistorical mythology.

21 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:14:22am

re: #6 Sharmuta

When it comes to marxists- facts usually are the first causality.

The second casualties are then the innocent human beings that can't defend themselves. Calling the USA, Calling the USA.

22 The Other Les  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:14:29am

re: #16 Roentgen

Cease with your agenda to pursue facts and policy issues! This is the Messiah speaking!

He's a mess but he's no Messiah!

23 Thanos  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:14:37am

Is he going senile, or did he just never read newspapers? Wot an idiot, Hugo's planning and brewing of the "Bolivarian Revolution" was shaping before Bush even decided to run for President.

It's automatic that one cult of personality populist would embrace another.

24 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:15:15am

When Obama becomes president, historical details won't matter...

25 Onslow  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:15:15am

Since the Bush Administration launched a misguided war in Iraq, its policy in the Americas has been negligent toward our friends, ineffective with our adversaries, disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives, and incapable of advancing our interests in the region.

Does he mean uninterested?

26 Benthoven  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:15:18am

I sure as hell hope some aggressive 527's on our side are gathering the daily idiocies uttered by Obama for the ad campaign this fall - God knows McLame won't do anything with it.

27 littleoldlady  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:15:21am

re: #11 Onslow

Right. His target market is college students. Try asking any (okay, about 90%) of them about American history.

/maybe AuntAcid will lend you some...

28 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:15:45am

re: #13 The Other Les

Exactly!

If President Bush is directly responsible for the Earth's weather (i.e. global warming, oops, "climate change") and can get people in foreign lands elected 2 years before he himself became President, that can only mean one thing..

Bush is God!

29 AuntAcid  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:15:50am

re: #11 Onslow

Obama is making me question the value of an Ivy League education.

Mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy.

30 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:15:59am

Genius Bush invented time travel and then Idiot Bush went back in time and created Chavez. C'mon, folks, get it right.

I hadn't seen the news on Barry's Latin America policy. This oughtta be good. I'm sure he's all broken up today over the news of FARC founder Marulanda's (probable) death.

31 uncle_monkey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:16:09am

re: #20 Athens Runaway

LibeRule 4: All human history started on September 11, 2001. Everything else is prehistorical mythology.

Wonder why they're all living in September 10, 2001 then?

32 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:16:11am

Excerpt:

If we don’t turn away from the policies of the past, then we won’t be able to shape the future. The Bush Administration has offered no clear vision for this future, and neither has John McCain. So we face a clear choice in this election. We can continue as a bystander, or we can lead the hemisphere into the 21st century. And when I am President of the United States, we will choose to lead. It’s time for a new alliance of the Americas. After eight years of the failed policies of the past, we need new leadership for the future. After decades pressing for top-down reform, we need an agenda that advances democracy, security, and opportunity from the bottom up. So my policy towards the Americas will be guided by the simple principle that what’s good for the people of the Americas is good for the United States.

I'm not certain what he means here, but it worries me.

33 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:16:22am

We're starting to see B-Ho make more stuff up as he goes along. Since CJ has a keen eye for unmasking the BS, he may have plenty to write about over the next six months.

34 rick554  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:16:23am

While talking to 4 college students, sophomores and seniors actually, I was shocked by their ignorance of basic history and world relations. Then it occurred to me , this Barack Hussein Obama, seems to be just as ignorant as they are. Lord give me 5 minutes alone with Barry and No teleprompter..........
Its no wonder the moveon.dems want more kids in "University", to keep churning out as many useful idiots as possible. I hope God saves us from these naives and fools

35 BlueCanuck  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:16:34am

I don't know about you fellow lizards, but BHO is starting to sound more and more like Dan Quayle with his gaffes and mis-speakisms.

/isn't that a real scary thought.

36 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:17:01am

re: #20 Athens Runaway

Ann Coulter summed that point up by saying that (paraphrasing) for liberals, history always begins this morning.

37 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:17:03am
I’d really like to hear Barack Obama answer some simple questions about world history

Hey, Barry will accept that challenge, and will take that test in any one of the 58 States in the Union!

38 coquimbojoe  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:17:03am

And Obama continues to skate... Unfortunately the press and his followers have the same respect and knowledge of history.

39 itellu3times  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:17:14am
Hugo Chavez came to power during the Clinton Administration, and was first elected President of Venezuela in 1998, two years before the Bush Administration took office.

But they knew Bush was coming, so they baked a cake.

Bush has been ignoring the Venezulians since 1821, but even before that, the Yanomaman indigenes had a myth that someday a white devil from the depths of hell would come from the north and ignore them.

40 Blackacre  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:17:42am
"disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives"

I'm pretty sure that he means "uninterested." I suppose that all those years as a "community organizer" -- whatever the heck that is -- turned his Harvard Law education to mush.

41 pat  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:17:53am

Mr Obama, name the heads of Chile, Bolivia, Columbia, Peru, Brazil and Mexico and explain their political beliefs and economic challenges. .....tick, tick, tick

42 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:18:09am

re: #31 uncle_monkey

That was one of the dates they removed when they adopted the Gregorian calendar, wasn't it?

/

43 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:18:29am

re: #40 Blackacre

I'm pretty sure that he means "uninterested." I suppose that all those years as a "community organizer" -- whatever the heck that is -- turned his Harvard Law education to mush.

A piece of paper does not equal education.

44 The Other Les  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:18:29am

re: #28 mitthrawnurdo

Bush is God!


So I should stop being an atheist now?

45 Blackacre  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:18:31am

re: #25 Onslow

You beat me to it!

46 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:18:51am

Che'nge in the Americas is at the heart of Obama's foreign policies.

47 zzzzzzzzzz.....  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:19:05am

I am surprised that no one has pointed this out, Obama has an Ivy league education. What do these gaffs say about his education and the schools that he has been to. Higher education in this country is in crisis and he is product of such a system. If you look at some on the recent documentaries about higher education like indoctrinate U you could see this coming. But his is an issue no one is talking about.

I recently took a political science course where I paid attention, went to class and participated in the lively debate in class. PS unlike math has multiple correct answers. In PS there is reasoned thought and unreasoned thought and many different outcomes can be reached. When I took the midterm for the class I was awarded a 22/100. My GPA at the time was 3.85. I was just not being indoctrinated by this guy fast enough. I can understand a 75 or even a 60 or even a 55 but 22/100? phew anyway that is my rant.
Good day!

48 freetoken  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:19:14am

On reading the transcript, it seems to me Obama, when he says

No wonder, then, that demagogues like Hugo Chavez have stepped into this vacuum.


Is referring to the 'vacuum' caused by Bush's alleged:

disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives

Which can be fleshed out by the whole paragraph of Obama's"

No wonder, then, that demagogues like Hugo Chavez have stepped into this vacuum. His predictable yet perilous mix of anti-American rhetoric, authoritarian government, and checkbook diplomacy offers the same false promise as the tried and failed ideologies of the past. But the United States is so alienated from the rest of the Americas that this stale vision has gone unchallenged, and has even made inroads from Bolivia to Nicaragua. And Chavez and his allies are not the only ones filling the vacuum. While the United States fails to address the changing realities in the Americas, others from Europe and Asia – notably China – have stepped up their own engagement. Iran has drawn closer to Venezuela, and just the other day Tehran and Caracas launched a joint bank with their windfall oil profits.

So Obama is not saying Chavez was elected under Bush, but that Hugo filled in the power vacuum in SA under Bush.

Obama is rather naive about foreign policy strategy, but I don't believe here he said what you think he said.

49 oingo boingo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:19:29am

He's not only an empty suit... he's an IGNORANT empty suit.

50 Geepers  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:19:39am

In a similar view from Charles Krauthammer:

Gaffes Rule

Before the Democratic debate of July 23, Barack Obama had never expounded upon the wisdom of meeting — without precondition — with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Bashar al-Assad, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong Il, or the Castro brothers. But in that debate, he was asked about doing exactly that. Unprepared, he said sure — then got fancy, declaring the Bush administration’s refusal to do so was not just “ridiculous” but “a disgrace.”

After that, there was no going back. So he doubled down. What started as a gaffe became policy. By now, it has become doctrine. Yet it remains today what it was on the day he blurted it out: an absurdity.

The Shanghai communique was largely written long before Richard Nixon ever touched down in China. Yet Obama thinks Nixon to China confirms the wisdom of his willingness to undertake a worldwide freshman-year tyrants tour.

Obama cited Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman as presidents who met with enemies. Does he know no history? Neither Roosevelt nor Truman ever met with any of the leaders of the Axis powers. Obama must be referring to the pictures he’s seen of Roosevelt and Stalin at Yalta, and Truman and Stalin at Potsdam. Does he not know that at that time Stalin was a wartime ally?

Just run your mouth, the clueless droves will follow.

51 The Other Les  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:19:43am

re: #31 uncle_monkey

Wonder why they're all living in September 10, 2001 then?

I think they regret the day that our ancestors started banging the rocks together.

52 Sharmuta  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:19:47am

obama will be creating a new cabinet position- secretary of information.

Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

53 Thanos  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:19:53am

Obama's "Americas Policy" is evident from his 2006 vote in opposition to the Andean Free trade agreement -- he and Kerry wanted to hold it hostage so a lawsuit against a US Oil company could go forward. It amounted to a shakedown of Chevron by Peruvians.

So he would do nothing at all if US interests and companies in SA were victimized, indeed he would likely be with the opposition.

54 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:20:04am

re: #35 BlueCanuck

Yeppers, but the drive-by media (gosh, I love that description of the mainstream media!) will gloss over it, unlike the glaring spotlight put on Quayle's gaffes.

55 Bobblehead  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:20:09am

This is what Rush had to say about Barack on Friday:

Something about this guy is not right. There's something about this that doesn't jibe. This guy, two years ago in the United States Senate barely could find the men's room. He was still preoccupied with trying to figure out how to ingratiate himself with the Chicago machine politics. He didn't do one thing of any significance in the Senate. He'd had more "I don't care" votes or "I'm not here" votes or "present" votes or whatever in the Illinois Senate. Somebody's gotta be behind this. None of this Obama campaign makes any sense whatsoever, particularly him.


.......

By the way, the word I was looking for to describe Obama when I was talking about this campaign of his, he's a sock puppet, folks. He is somebody's stooge. He's a marionette, somebody is pulling his strings. I don't know if it's Reverend Wright; I don't know if it's George Soros; I don't know if it's a combination of the two. I don't know if it's his racist grandmother working behind the scenes to get even for whatever happened to her. I don't know what it is. But I do know that it isn't what it appears to be. His campaign and he are not what they appear to be.
56 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:20:32am

re: #28 mitthrawnurdo

Exactly!

If President Bush is directly responsible for the Earth's weather (i.e. global warming, oops, "climate change") and can get people in foreign lands elected 2 years before he himself became President, that can only mean one thing..

Bush is God!

BWWWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

57 lawhawk  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:20:42am

It's not just that Chavez came to power in 1998 during Clinton's term in office. [T]hugo Chavez was elected to power in 1998, and in subsequent years, tried to steal and gain power through intimidation, cajoling, and thuggery to take more power than granted his position under the Constitution. Heck, he's tried to rewrite the constitution to give him even more power.

President Bush had nothing to do with that either.

Chavez is responsible for what he's doing in Venezuela - up to and including the food shortages, rampant inflation, and socio-economic problems.

His economic outlook? Totalitarian Socialist.

That's the real source of the problem.

58 Onslow  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:20:45am

re: #45 Blackacre

That's only because I'm on my third cup of coffee.

59 littleoldlady  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:20:56am

Is there a compilation of Obama's Fractured Moments in American History anywhere?

/my target audience this election is college students, too, and I need sound bytes because I think they all have ADHD...

60 TheTick  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:20:58am

Obama's gaffes have become legendary among the blog set, but I am not sure how the 527s or anyone else are going to get this type of nuanced point across to the adoring masses.

Then again, nuance is the exclusive domain of the left. Maybe there is hope after all.

61 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:20:59am

re: #22 The Other Les

He's a mess but he's no Messiah!

He's B-Ho the Mess-I-ah.

62 itellu3times  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:21:09am

re: #48 freetoken

Obama is rather naive about foreign policy strategy, but I don't believe here he said what you think he said.

I don't think he said what he thinks he said, either.

63 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:21:14am

re: #47 zzzzzzzzzz.....

You must learn to master the art of doublethink, grasshopper. House the Obama thought along side the true thought while not allowing the former to consume you and you shall do well.

64 rick554  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:21:16am

I got 50 bucks says its george soros

65 jaunte  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:21:29am
"If we don’t turn away from the policies of the past, then we won’t be able to shape the future. "

Obama's rhetoric reminds me of The Sphinx' from the movie Mystery Men, known for his unhelpful aphorisms ("When you can balance a tack hammer on your head, you can head off your foe with a balanced attack")

66 jcm  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:21:34am

B. Hussein is a historical ignoramus of the highest order.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Do we need someone in the White House with no knowledge of history.

I think not.

67 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:21:41am

From what I can see, his only concrete idea is to immediately allow for remittance money to help prop up the Cuban communist regime. Great idea, Barry. Other than that, it's all comically empty blather:

If we don’t turn away from the policies of the past, then we won’t be able to shape the future. The Bush Administration has offered no clear vision for this future, and neither has John McCain. So we face a clear choice in this election. We can continue as a bystander, or we can lead the hemisphere into the 21st century. And when I am President of the United States, we will choose to lead. It’s time for a new alliance of the Americas. After eight years of the failed policies of the past, we need new leadership for the future.

I think this should be accompanied by the Springfield Elementary School Chorus singing "Children are the Future."

Children... Children...
Future... Future...
KIDS!

68 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:22:11am

re: #44 The Other Les

If you believe that Bush can control global weather and can directly affect elections before his Presidency, then yes.

69 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:22:21am

re: #39 itellu3times

someday a white devil from the depths of hell would come from the north and ignore them.

Ha!

70 lawhawk  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:22:23am

If the US has so alienated Latin America, how come the Colombians want a free trade agreement with the US? How come Democrats in Congress are trying to prevent that from happening?

Seems someone's disconnected from foreign policy, and it isn't Bush.

71 Thanos  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:22:32am

While Obama's spouting BS, President Bush has overseen the creation of a fifth US Naval Fleet -- it's stationed in Florida for a reason Barry and Hugo.

72 uncle_monkey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:22:56am

re: #51 The Other Les

I think they regret the day that our ancestors started banging the rocks together.

That's what really confuses them, because they still love their espresso makers...

73 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:23:08am

re: #62 itellu3times

I don't think he said what he thinks he said, either.

He thinks a little more like he did today than the day before.

74 jcm  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:23:16am

re: #68 mitthrawnurdo

If you believe that Bush can control global weather and can directly affect elections before his Presidency, then yes.

Rove, Rove has a time machine and a weather machine.
Rove you magnificent bastard!

75 Athens Runaway  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:23:20am

re: #31 uncle_monkey

Wonder why they're all living in September 10, 2001 then?


Uhh... I'm going to go ask Phil Connors on that one. Let me get back to you :P

re: #36 mitthrawnurdo

Ann Coulter summed that point up by saying that (paraphrasing) for liberals, history always begins this morning.


I remember seeing it posted to LGF in other forms, so I don't know where I first saw/heard it.

76 mikeinmd  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:23:33am

Since the Pelosi led Congress failed to stop the war in Iraq, its policy in the Middle East has been negligent toward our friends, ineffective with our adversaries, disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives, and incapable of advancing our interests in the region.

No wonder, then, that demagogues like Barack Obama have stepped into this vacuum.

77 The Other Les  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:23:38am

re: #68 mitthrawnurdo

If you believe that Bush can control global weather and can directly affect elections before his Presidency, then yes.

No.

78 jainphx  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:23:57am

Barack needs a brush up history coarse, but like the Clinton's, why tell the truth when a lie will do.

79 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:24:04am

Silver lining here; at least he's saying Chavez and chavismo are bad things.

80 The Other Les  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:24:47am

re: #72 uncle_monkey

That's what really confuses them, because they still love their espresso makers...

I must invoke Clarke's Law.

81 freetoken  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:25:09am

re: #62 itellu3times

I don't think he said what he thinks he said, either.

Well, it does seem at times it is hard to figure out if what he said is what he thought he said...

82 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:25:14am

I'm coming close to making up my mind - if Obama is elected POTUS, I'm going to jump party lines and start up a Kos account. I'm sick and tired of always ending up on the losing side of things.

83 Bubbaman  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:25:15am

This guy was Harvard Law Review? Osama makes Jerry Lewis look like a Mensa posterchild.

84 lawhawk  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:25:32am

re: #50 Geepers

/when the Germans attacked at Pearl Harbor. /don't mind, he's on a roll.

85 jaunte  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:25:54am

It's clear choice; a choice for clarity.
When I am the leader by your choice, I will choose to lead you.
We need a new alliance; an alliance of the new.
The failed policies of the past will provide us a policy to move past failure.
/

86 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:25:59am

re: #76 mikeinmd

Nice one.

87 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:26:17am

re: #70 lawhawk

If the US has so alienated Latin America, how come the Colombians want a free trade agreement with the US? How come Democrats in Congress are trying to prevent that from happening?

Seems someone's disconnected from foreign policy, and it isn't Bush.

Well first let's have a little redefinition of terms here. To Obama foreign policy is anything to do with fund raising outside the confines of the State of Illinois. So you can see his confusion on this and other issues.

88 jcm  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:26:19am

re: #70 lawhawk

If the US has so alienated Latin America, how come the Colombians want a free trade agreement with the US? How come Democrats in Congress are trying to prevent that from happening?

Seems someone's disconnected from foreign policy, and it isn't Bush.

If I had to wager a guess some of our SOF types have a piece of the FARC take downs. Bush helps Cololumbia, BHO's name is on the FARC computers.

89 itellu3times  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:26:36am

re: #73 Roentgen

He thinks a little more like he did today than the day before.

His words change meaning as they fly,
bringing good things to every girl and boy.

90 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:26:37am

re: #77 The Other Les

lol, I knew you would find the notion that Bush = God was insane.

/what sane person doesn't? But these moonbats must think so, else why attribute everything bad to him?

91 leboaz  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:27:30am

He wants to CHANGE - history
He wants to CHANGE - life in the U.S.
He wants to CHANGE - the way the world sees us
I just HOPE he doesn't get a chance

92 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:27:34am

re: #74 jcm

Wait, so maybe it's Rove that is God and not Bush! Thanks for the correction.

/Hail Rove!

93 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:27:58am

You know, while I am truly surprised at Obama's ignorance of history, what really astounds me is that he is SO ignorant of RECENT history, which such ignorance he spouts so eloquently.
Doesn't the Obama campaign have one, just ONE ADULT who reads his speeches and prepared texts for gaffes like this?
His entire foreign policy seems to be "Gee golly willikers, that bad man Bush didn't want to talk to these people, so what can you expect from Chavez, Dinnerjackt and the Chinless One? I'll talk to them, man to man."
Uh, gee golly Barry - don't you understand they don't want to TALK to us, they want to DESTROY us?
Just an unbelievable putz.

94 rwmofo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:27:59am

Obama isn't Bush. Check.
The uneducated and gullible like the way he speaks. Check.
We're waiting for the MSM to correct him. Crickets chirping.
Mrs. Clinton tries to correct him. You're still here? Why?

95 richiep  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:28:00am

Obama is a typical clueless Leftest idiot. Despite McCain's deficiencies I can not believe the U.S. will elect the Socialist Obama as President.

96 6pat6  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:28:29am

I’d like to hear him answer some simple questions about world history, to see exactly how much he really does know. No blow-dried media talking head will ever do this, of course, but I suspect people would be in for a real shock if they knew the depths of his historical ignorance.

Charles, too many people know NOTHING about history to notice his continuous fuck-ups. Look at the adults that can't seem to remember 9/11!

If it didn't happen five minutes ago, far too many people could care less.

97 uncle_monkey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:28:32am

re: #76 mikeinmd

Since the Pelosi led Congress failed to stop the war in Iraq, its policy in the Middle East has been negligent toward our friends, ineffective with our adversaries, disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives, and incapable of advancing our interests in the region.

No wonder, then, that demagogues like Barack Obama have stepped into this vacuum.

Speaking of Vacuum (between the ears), this one got me before my coffee this morning. Here is yet another moonbat that is running against Pelosi. She was advertising her ImpeachPlay and talking about how it got a standing ovation (I'll bet). Hey lady, are your pupils dialated?

98 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:28:47am
No wonder, then, that demagogues like Hugo Chavez have stepped into this vacuum.

I wonder if all the folks in Central and South America feel that they exist in a vacuum. Isn't that elitist and condescending? There was a continent that is now a vacuum because of events occurring on the other side of the world?
Sheesh.

99 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:29:11am

re: #70 lawhawk

If the US has so alienated Latin America, how come the Colombians want a free trade agreement with the US?

And how come former hard-leftist Alan Garcia in Peru is all on board with free trade and free markets now, too?

100 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:29:12am

re: #95 richiep

I wish I had your optimism.

/Perhaps Lord Rove can intervene?

101 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:30:38am

re: #98 Roentgen

I wonder if all the folks in Central and South America feel that they exist in a vacuum. Isn't that elitist and condescending? There was a continent that is now a vacuum because of events occurring on the other side of the world?
Sheesh.


And only The Anointed One can properly fill this tragic vacuum!

102 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:30:54am

re: #98 Roentgen

I wonder if all the folks in Central and South America feel that they exist in a vacuum. Isn't that elitist and condescending? There was a continent that is now a vacuum because of events occurring on the other side of the world?
Sheesh.

You starting to get it now. It's a vacuum in central and south America, and it's Bible toting gun crazy bitter typical white folk in the good old US of A.

103 Soccer Fan  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:31:18am

re: #11 Onslow

Obama is making me question the value of an Ivy League education.

My daughter who just finished 7th grade with perfect grades has a wish list of Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell and Penn in that order. I really have no idea what to say to her...

104 6pat6  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:31:52am

re: #103 Soccer Fan

Tell her "no" and why you think that way.

105 nyc redneck  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:31:55am

there is no history for b.o. except what he conveniently makes up, as he goes along.
like a kid lying to get their way or get out of trouble.
what an embarrassment we have running for potus.

106 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:32:13am

re: #102 Nevergiveup

You starting to get it now. It's a vacuum in central and south America, and it's Bible toting gun crazy bitter typical white folk in the good old US of A.

I am starting to get it. This guy is nuts!

107 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:32:41am

re: #103 Soccer Fan

My daughter who just finished 7th grade with perfect grades has a wish list of Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell and Penn in that order. I really have no idea what to say to her...

Try these words: US NAVAL ACADEMY, WEST POINT,THE AIR FORCE ACADEMY AT COLORADO SPRINGS .

108 Syrah  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:32:58am

What matters is that those who will vote for him prefer the mythic reality he offers them.

109 6pat6  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:33:14am

re: #107 Nevergiveup

AMEN!

110 Sharmuta  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:33:35am

re: #98 Roentgen

Yes- it is elitist and condescending.

111 jcm  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:34:09am

Obama conflated the Kennedy / Khrushchev talks and the Cuban missile crisis. When the talks embolden Khrushchev to place missiles on Cuba as a response to our missiles in Turkey.

His reaction to Bush in front of the Keenest, belies is lack of comprehension of the events leading up to WWII.

His rhetoric show a lack of understand of the what drives the Mad Mullahs and jidahists.

He is not only unqualified, he is dangerously unqualified. His lack of experience would not only lead us into another Cuban missile crisis, he would be utterly unable to navigate out of it.

112 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:34:19am

re: #79 Occasional Reader

Do you think that's going to bite him in the bum with his supporters? Probably not as it's only wishful thinking on my part since Obama's supporters will go along with anything the man puts forward as "Che'nge" even a foreign policy that is likened to shooting at the hip in the dark with blanks.

113 Bubbaman  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:34:26am

While on the face of it, Osama's gaffes seem almost comedic. Then when one figures in the rallies with the fainting and chanting, "change", "yes we can" it seems like something out of 1930's Germany. Add in the revisionist history, and this is downright scary. We are witnessing the emergence of a new and horrific movement - Wazi's - Weltsozialistische Arbeiter-Partei.(World Socialist Worker's Party).

114 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:34:31am

Now this is interesting:

And we will shine a light on any support for the FARC that comes from neighboring governments. This behavior must be exposed to international condemnation, regional isolation, and – if need be – strong sanctions. It must not stand.

Really, Barry? Really? You'll actually DO SOMETHING to stop support from Chavez and Correa to the FARC? Nah, I doubt it. You'll just "shine a light"... without really saying anything concrete or mentioning any names, and certainly without DOING anything concrete. And if Colombia actually does something - like hit the cross-border FARC camps - what will you say? I didn't see any Obama statement regarding that raid, by the way. Anyone know?

115 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:34:43am

re: #103 Soccer Fan

My daughter who just finished 7th grade with perfect grades has a wish list of Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell and Penn in that order. I really have no idea what to say to her...

There are plenty of other great schools out there. Hopefully she won't go to one where they throw the lacrosse team under the bus because they're white males.

116 RickZ  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:34:46am
This is far from the first time Barack Obama has been wrong about a simple historical fact.

Definitely not the first time, and certainly not the last, that Obama has showed his appalling ignorance of history and its lessons to be learned. How long a time-frame is brink? Days, weeks, months, over a year?

117 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:35:06am

re: #103 Soccer Fan

Me neither...especially when they'll turn up the moonbat irradiation in high school...

118 freetoken  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:35:31am

From the transcript:

While we share this risk, we also share the resources to do something about it. That’s why I’ll bring together the countries of the region in a new Energy Partnership for the Americas. We need to go beyond bilateral agreements. We need a regional approach. Together, we can forge a path toward sustainable growth and clean energy.

This may be another indirect swipe at NAFTA. Now, I know some people here don't like NAFTA, but what perhaps many don't understand is that NAFTA binds Canada to supply a share of their hydrocarbon production with the US.

Both Obama's and Clinton's talk about reopening NAFTA negotiations has brought up some interesting talk in Canada about the products made from the tar sands. Should NAFTA cease, and Canada not be obliged to share their hydrocarbon wealth with the US, there are interests in Canada who would like to see pipelines go to their west coast, in order to ship the tar-sourced products (which may include gasoline or diesel) onto the world market, to get the best price obviously.

Just something to think about when you want to go diddling with NAFTA...

119 rawmuse  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:36:08am

re: #11 Onslow

Obama is making me question the value of an Ivy League education.

I no longer question it. You may as well go spend $100k in Vegas on hookers and crack. The Ivy League is where you go to emerge broke, and way dumber than when you went in. It's become a farce.

120 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:36:59am

re: #119 rawmuse

I no longer question it. You may as well go spend $100k in Vegas on hookers and crack. The Ivy League is where you go to emerge broke, and way dumber than when you went in. It's become a farce.

Hmmm. You've got me thinking here...

121 Bubbaman  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:37:07am

re: #93 realwest

You know, while I am truly surprised at Obama's ignorance of history, what really astounds me is that he is SO ignorant of RECENT history, which such ignorance he spouts so eloquently.
Doesn't the Obama campaign have one, just ONE ADULT who reads his speeches and prepared texts for gaffes like this?
His entire foreign policy seems to be "Gee golly willikers, that bad man Bush didn't want to talk to these people, so what can you expect from Chavez, Dinnerjackt and the Chinless One? I'll talk to them, man to man."
Uh, gee golly Barry - don't you understand they don't want to TALK to us, they want to DESTROY us?
Just an unbelievable putz.

You assume that these people can read? And if so, their authors of note are Marx, Engel, et al.

122 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:37:22am

re: #108 Syrah "prefer the mythic reality he offers them." They not only prefer it, they're living in it right now! LOL!

123 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:37:24am

re: #111 jcm

Obama conflated the Kennedy / Khrushchev talks and the Cuban missile crisis. When the talks embolden Khrushchev to place missiles on Cuba as a response to our missiles in Turkey.

His reaction to Bush in front of the Keenest, belies is lack of comprehension of the events leading up to WWII.

His rhetoric show a lack of understand of the what drives the Mad Mullahs and jidahists.

He is not only unqualified, he is dangerously unqualified. His lack of experience would not only lead us into another Cuban missile crisis, he would be utterly unable to navigate out of it.

You summed up in 99 words ( shit one more would have made an even 100) why we must all not only all get out to vote for McCain on election day but even if it against all our Conservative instincts...actually talk him up!

124 skree  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:37:25am

Is Obama running against Bush? Those are the only policies I hear mentioned.

125 Thanos  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:37:36am

re: #111 jcm

Obama conflated the Kennedy / Khrushchev talks and the Cuban missile crisis. When the talks embolden Khrushchev to place missiles on Cuba as a response to our missiles in Turkey.

His reaction to Bush in front of the Keenest, belies is lack of comprehension of the events leading up to WWII.

His rhetoric show a lack of understand of the what drives the Mad Mullahs and jidahists.

He is not only unqualified, he is dangerously unqualified. His lack of experience would not only lead us into another Cuban missile crisis, he would be utterly unable to navigate out of it.

He also forgets that Kennedy had direct talks with Kruschev in Vienna, 39 days later construction of the Berlin wall started -- that's what talking gets you.

126 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:38:09am

Of course, he follows up immediately with this:

We must also make clear our support for labor rights, and human rights, and that means meaningful support for Colombia’s democratic institutions

Translation: I may occasionally rhetorically give a slap on the wrist to Chavez (an enemy of the US) for supporting the FARC... although I'll be happy to talk to him without preconditions, of course.

On the other hand, I will really, truly, concretely block any trade deal with Colombia (a US ally), and use "labor rights" as a flimsy excuse (despite the fact that violence against labor organizers has PLUMMETED under Uribe, not risen as the Dems would have you believe).

127 jcm  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:38:14am

re: #103 Soccer Fan

My daughter who just finished 7th grade with perfect grades has a wish list of Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell and Penn in that order. I really have no idea what to say to her...

Hillsdale.

The origins of Western Civilization reside in Athens and Jerusalem. In both the philosophical tradition arising from the former and the theological tradition arising from the latter, education is of utmost importance.

Drawing on each of these traditions, the American founders held education to be at once vital to maintaining freedom and necessary to human happiness, which is built on virtue. The Hillsdale College Mission Statement, Honor Code and Student Pledge reflect these old truths, and demonstrate the abiding respect with which they are held here.

128 itellu3times  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:38:21am

re: #103 Soccer Fan

My daughter who just finished 7th grade with perfect grades has a wish list of Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell and Penn in that order. I really have no idea what to say to her...

She'll get older and consider schools further away, I expect.

129 hermeneutics  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:39:32am

I'm a historian -- strike one
I have an Ivy League education -- strike two.

But ... before I strike out, let me give some historical rules:

1. Any American history book written since the 1970s should be balanced with one written prior to 1960.

2. Social and cultural history are mainly revisionist. Wade carefully and challenge all assumptions.

3. Intellectual history -- my occupation -- has been mainly ignored, recently. If I could, I'd use Crane Brinton's books in class. Easy read.

For those in college or university, I hate to recommend this but I will -- LIE. Just lie. You have no choice. Regurgitate everything your lefty profs want to hear. Do it early and often. Don't let them know you're conservative. Don't bother to argue. Just get the darn degree and leave.

130 Bubbaman  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:40:08am

re: #103 Soccer Fan


I'd say Stanford, but even the Hoover institute is full of weanies.

131 shibumi  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:40:18am

C'mon people.

Everyone (cough, cough, liberals) know that Obama meant that Chavez was a perfectly good neighbor and benign leader until the BusHitler started this illegal, immoral and unjust war that has lead to the death of a kabillion innocent Muslims. The war in Iraq gave our former friend Chavez no choice- he had to become a dictator to protect his country and national interests. He had no other choice.


/moonbat explanation

132 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:40:18am

re: #126 Occasional Reader

I thought Colombia was America's last South American puppet, and the druglords help fund US wars abroad - as well as their supposed "campaign" against FARC.

133 rawmuse  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:40:22am

re: #120 Roentgen

Hmmm. You've got me thinking here...

Listen to Dennis Prager sometime on some of his talks about the top American Universities. He should know. Any study in Liberal Arts is a complete waste of time and money, everything you know will be 180 degrees out of phase by the time you come out. If you are studying hard sciences, that is another matter, but you can get good training in those fields in numerous, less expensive venues.

134 rwmofo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:40:29am

re: #103 Soccer Fan

My daughter who just finished 7th grade with perfect grades has a wish list of Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell and Penn in that order. I really have no idea what to say to her...

Congratulations. Remind yourself: "She's just a kid." Lots of things change over the years. My kid started playing the violin in 5th grade. He earned his undergraduate degree and went pro. The best thing that I ever did was "stay out of his way" (What do I know about fiddles?).

PS: College costs more than you had planned.

135 Anna  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:40:33am

re: #32 unrealizedviewpoint

What Sen. Obama is saying, whatever Venezuela or Bolivia demands as good for the Americas then the United States must comply. After all Sen. Obama only wants to 'give' the UN like $850billion of OUR tax dollars.

Please Sen. Obama visit that 58th state, dementia, quickly.

136 leboaz  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:40:48am

re: #117 laZardo
Moonbat irrariation
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

137 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:40:48am

re: #123 Nevergiveup

You summed up in 99 words ( shit one more would have made an even 100) why we must all not only all get out to vote for McCain on election day but even if it against all our Conservative instincts...actually talk him up!

Yes. Well played, JCM.

138 hermeneutics  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:41:09am

re: #107 Nevergiveup

Yes, if she wants ... but an Ivy education opens other doors. Frankly, we need more conservatives in universities.

139 littleoldlady  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:41:21am

re: #129 hermeneutics

For those in college or university, I hate to recommend this but I will -- LIE. Just lie. You have no choice. Regurgitate everything your lefty profs want to hear. Do it early and often. Don't let them know you're conservative. Don't bother to argue. Just get the darn degree and leave.

My daughter's policy in a nutshell.

/it's awful :-(

140 Syrah  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:41:31am

re: #103 Soccer Fan

My daughter who just finished 7th grade with perfect grades has a wish list of Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell and Penn in that order. I really have no idea what to say to her...

Another good one to keep on you list is Hillsdale College.

141 AuntAcid  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:41:40am

re: #107 Nevergiveup

Try these words: US NAVAL ACADEMY, WEST POINT,THE AIR FORCE ACADEMY AT COLORADO SPRINGS .

I'll bet that if she was a mixed-race, left leaning lesbian with a limp she'd get a free ride anywhere.

142 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:41:56am

I do have to say in the interest of fairness; Obama didn't say that Chavez came to power during the Bush administration. "Stepped into the vacuum" can quite fairly be interepreted as, Chavez has extended his influence during the Bush administration. Which, yes, he has. Do I trust Barry to reverse that? No.

143 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:42:19am

re: #114 Occasional Reader Uh, tell ya the truth O.R., I suspect that the batteries in that "light" Barry is gonna shine on FARC will die about five seconds after he turns it on.
As I said above, I'm genuinely surprised at his lack of knowledge of history, but ASTOUNDED at the way he continually spouts off that ignorance of RECENT history - history he's lived through as an Adult!
Doesn't ANYONE on his campaign staff vet any of the crap the speechwriters give him before he starts displaying his ignorance in such a blinding fashion?

144 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:42:54am

re: #132 laZardo

I thought Colombia was America's last South American puppet, and the druglords help fund US wars abroad - as well as their supposed "campaign" against FARC.

Did you forget your sarc tag?

145 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:43:07am

re: #138 hermeneutics

Yes, if she wants ... but an Ivy education opens other doors. Frankly, we need more conservatives in universities.

Well while I understand what i said is a long shot with kids these days. NOTHING opens up doors like a service academy education.

146 MarkX  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:43:14am

To repeat my post from yesterday.

O'Bambi truly is a moron.

A real empty suit.

No sense of history. No thought out foreign policy. No regard for consequences of his rhetoric.

God save this nation if he is elected.

147 pingjockey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:43:24am

re: #143 realwest
No vetting allowed, it interferes with the message of Change and Hope!

148 Sharmuta  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:43:38am

re: #131 shibumi

C'mon people.

Everyone (cough, cough, liberals) know that Obama meant that Chavez was a perfectly good neighbor and benign leader until the BusHitler started this illegal, immoral and unjust war that has lead to the death of a kabillion innocent Muslims. The war in Iraq gave our former friend Chavez no choice- he had to become a dictator to protect his country and national interests. He had no other choice.


/moonbat explanation

Yes- Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

149 J.D.  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:43:45am

Bring On the Foreign Policy Debate By JOHN R. BOLTON

...The Obama view of negotiations as the alpha and the omega of U.S. foreign policy highlights a fundamental conceptual divide between the major parties and their putative presidential nominees. This divide also opened in 2004, when John Kerry insisted that our foreign policy pass a "global test" to be considered legitimate.

At first glance, the idea of sitting down with adversaries seems hard to quarrel with. In our daily lives, we meet with competitors, opponents and unpleasant people all the time. Mr. Obama hopes to characterize the debate about international negotiations as one between his reasonableness and the hard-line attitude of a group of unilateralist GOP cowboys.

The real debate is radically different. On one side are those who believe that negotiations should be used to resolve international disputes 99% of the time. That is where I am, and where I think Mr. McCain is. On the other side are those like Mr. Obama, who apparently want to use negotiations 100% of the time. It is the 100%-ers who suffer from an obsession that is naïve and dangerous. ...

150 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:44:12am

Koskidz fantasize about the gruesome deaths of those who don't vote for The Messiah...
Won't vote for Obama? Then it's time to enlist.

I'm sure hearing about an Obama defeat will seem all the more sweet when you're laying in the choking aftermath of an IED explosion with a piece of half-melted plastic burning a hole into your intestines. I'm sure you'll be comforted by the knowledge that history had no place for President Obama when you're staring at the empty space where your leg used to be. And certainly, I'm sure the crippling terror of post-traumatic stress disorder will be nowhere as severe as the disingenuous "concern" you'll suffer over debunked Rezko conspiracy theories and the excited ramblings of a liberation theologian.


Progressive!

151 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:44:39am

re: #136 leboaz

It's no laughing matter. At one point in the 8th grade I seriously believed that the Earth would have passed the point where there would not be enough resources to sustain life, and there would be a catastrophic collapse of ecosystems and wildlife starting at - oh, say - by the end of the year.

152 The Other Les  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:44:47am

I suppose that some people would miss the old days:

Elsewhere, members of the artistic elite drowned their sorrows in debauchery. Simone de Beauvoir, the writer, and Jean-Paul Sartre, the philosopher, were devotees of allnight parties fuelled by alcohol and lust.

“It was only in the course of those nights that I discovered the true meaning of the word party,” was how de Beauvoir put it. Sartre was no less enthusiastic: “Never were we as free as under the German occupation.”

De Beauvoir wrote about the “quite spontaneous friendliness” of the conquerors: she was as fascinated as any by the German “cult of the body” and their penchant for exercising in nothing but gym shorts.

153 kilroy  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:44:52am

We're going back to the days of duck and cover!Barry doesn't even know what that means.

154 jcm  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:45:01am

re: #147 pingjockey

No vetting allowed, it interferes with the message of Change and Hope!

How can we have Change and Hope if we insist on looking back to history. We need to create a new reality!

/paraphrase of moonbat I had a discussion with.

155 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:45:12am

The President of the United States will meet with "ROLLING THUNDER" members today. I am impressed.

156 pingjockey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:45:19am

re: #150 Killgore Trout
Progressively evil!

157 Soccer Fan  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:45:33am

re: #70 lawhawk

If the US has so alienated Latin America, how come the Colombians want a free trade agreement with the US? How come Democrats in Congress are trying to prevent that from happening?

Seems someone's disconnected from foreign policy, and it isn't Bush.

Here in Brazil GWB has made I believe 2 official state visits. Both times the outright and unapologetic leftist media was salivating with the expectations of huge anti Bush protests and hoping for mass destruction and outright anarchy to justify their own thoughts and beliefs. Although there were some token protests the media couldn't even use them to start the newscasts they were so poorly attended and uneventful. The typical Brazilian does suffer from BDS (this comes from the onslaught of media against GWB) and they believe all of the lies that the Democrats have dispersed over the years (Bush lied, Iraq war is for oil, 9/11 was an inside job, etc.) but having said that on an individual basis they almost universally love the USA and especially the pop culture, and the biggest desire of most is to move to the USA and visit DisneyWorld.

158 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:45:59am

re: #144 Occasional Reader

It was meant as tagless sarc. o_O Despite my previous comments about Colombia, seems comments like those can pass for sarc without a tag.

159 Catttt  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:46:25am

re: #48 freetoken

If Sentor O had blamed the US government for our policies in Central and South America, that would have been more logical. However, he specifically mentioned President Bush. Blaming President Bush for things that happened largely in the 90s, leading to Chavez's election in 1999 and all the catastrophic consequences, is idiotic. The events that led Chavez to power happened in the 90s, when Clinton was President.

Also, it seems to me that the left has two handy arguments to trot out, depending on current events. They can say the USA left a power vacuum, as Senator O does here. If the USA intervenes, they say we are imperialists and should spend the money at home.

160 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:46:52am

re: #144 Occasional Reader

Some of us don't use it.

161 pingjockey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:46:59am

re: #154 jcm
Oh yeah! Lets substitute our own reality for reality. Madness.

162 lawhawk  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:47:04am

re: #142 Occasional Reader

Again, if that's your interpretation, consider that he's calling for an interventionist approach to Venezuela. A sovereign nation that has "elected" Chavez. He's calling for an interventionist policy that would be counter to Obama's approach everywhere else - especially when it means slamming Bush on intervening in Iraq for far worse.

163 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:47:04am

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Won't vote Obama? Then it is time to enlist.

Thanks. I DID.

164 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:47:05am

re: #150 Killgore Trout

That's so progressive I just had to recommend it.

165 jainphx  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:47:10am

If you stop and think, it's scary how many people listen to this guy, and AGREE.

166 Sharmuta  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:47:12am

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Just when you thought they couldn't possibly get more disgusting.....

167 jaunte  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:47:17am

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Another fantasy from that diary:
"...the media's historically illiterate race-baiting campaign against Obama"
I must have missed that one.

168 Charles  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:47:22am

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Koskidz fantasize about the gruesome deaths of those who don't vote for The Messiah...
Won't vote for Obama? Then it's time to enlist.

Progressive!

Hope!

169 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:47:30am

re: #129 hermeneutics
I've got the same two strikes against me as do you.
But are you really saying that college/university history classes are now as bad as sociology classes were back in the 60's and since?!

170 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:47:51am

re: #158 laZardo

It was meant as tagless sarc. o_O Despite my previous comments about Colombia, seems comments like those can pass for sarc without a tag.

Okay, sorry. I wasn't sure.

171 JeremyR  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:48:16am

re: #134 rwmofo

Congratulations. Remind yourself: "She's just a kid." Lots of things change over the years. My kid started playing the violin in 5th grade. He earned his undergraduate degree and went pro. The best thing that I ever did was "stay out of his way" (What do I know about fiddles?).

PS: College costs more than you had planned.

The diffrence between a violin and a fiddle is eleven IQ points.

172 WayDownSouthInBama  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:48:19am

Well,against my better judgment,I went over to the Obama site. There's a lot of things over there I find questionable. One of them is this:

"We can offer more than the tyranny of oil."

Oil is no longer a resource to the left. It represents a "tyranny" that must be thrown off at any cost. Just think about the mindset of anyone who sees a natural resource as a tyranny.

I liked this comment too:

"We cannot ignore suffering to our south, nor stand for the globalization of the empty stomach suit." There,fixed that for you Senator.

173 hermeneutics  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:48:25am

Look ... I've read every thing Marx has written and because of this, I can argue any Marxist to the ground. My Ivy education gave me insight into their presuppositions and logical flow. Now, I'm preparing to bring them low. Someday soon.

This is why an Ivy education is worth the pain. It strengthens you. Once you've walked into their fire, and survived, you're golden.

Not every kid is ready for this test. Many fail. My daughter is at Pepperdine because, frankly, I didn't think she could handle the heat.

174 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:48:42am

re: #171 JeremyR

The diffrence between a violin and a fiddle is eleven IQ points.

Which way?

175 snowcrash  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:49:19am

This foreign policy is as attractive (NOT) as his previously stated opinion "Israel being a constant sore that infects all our foreign policy" (said by Obama in an interview in the Atlantic). I will not forget that opinion and I will not be amused by this one. Now, try and tell me it's about color.

176 David Simon  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:49:26am
I’d like to hear him answer some simple questions about world history, to see exactly how much he really does know.

Like when the media questioned Bush about the names of world leaders.

177 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:49:34am

Huffa puffa, huffa puffa - man this thread is really zinging right along! And I've had two cups of coffee, too!
But before I forget, if any of y'all would like to put an image of an American Flag, waving in the breeze anywhere on your desktop you'd like, FOR FREE, just go to [Link: www.deskflag.com...]

178 The Other Les  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:49:36am

re: #168 Charles

Hope!

Hoping for Hope!

179 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:49:49am

re: #168 Charles

Change!

180 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:50:14am

re: #162 lawhawk

Again, if that's your interpretation, consider that he's calling for an interventionist approach to Venezuela.

Well, no. There's quite a lot of space in the spectrum between "invade Venezuela" and "do nothing to counter the influence of Chavez". Obama is at least *saying* that he'd do more... um... stuff... of some sort... to thwart the influence of Chavez. I don't believe him. But that's what he's saying.

181 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:50:17am

re: #177 realwest BTW, the image is only about 3/4 inch by 3/4 inch big.

182 pingjockey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:50:35am

re: #169 realwest
Went and waded through you tube, and FNC, couldn't find any NOI/obamarama videos. Maybe I swapped Rev. Wrong and obamarama!

183 Kobe  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:50:36am

Barry is really an air head - not just in History. Geraldine Ferraro is right - The only reason this buttercup is in the race is because he is black. Period. End of Story.

184 leboaz  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:50:45am

re: #151 laZardo
I stand corrected.
I'm 101% on board with you, but sometimes you just have to laugh, or all you can do is cry.
My grand daughter enters 7th grade in the fall
Her sister just graduated high school
Believe me, I see plenty. And I give what encouragement I can.

185 Nevergiveup  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:50:46am

re: #175 snowcrash

This foreign policy is as attractive (NOT) as his previously stated opinion "Israel being a constant sore that infects all our foreign policy" (said by Obama in an interview in the Atlantic). I will not forget that opinion and I will not be amused by this one. Now, try and tell me it's about color.

Well I am sure you are a racist bastard like the rest of us? You know, that would be a great tee shirt.

186 debutaunt  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:50:54am

re: #3 uncle_monkey

Everything is Bush's fault. Slavery. The Spanish American War. The Rodney King Beating. You name it. Don't be fooled by such minor details as chronological time. It's all an illusion.

You would think that GWB would use his time travel superpower for good, but no.

187 The Other Les  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:51:13am

re: #171 JeremyR

The diffrence between a violin and a fiddle is eleven IQ points.

I thought it was a class distinction.

188 rwmofo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:51:21am

re: #150 Killgore Trout

This is a perfect example of the left's dedication to our military's defeat.

189 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:51:23am

re: #157 Soccer Fan

And of course, Brazil has done pretty darn well economically from that "globalization" business that the Obama set tends to rail against.

190 MarkX  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:52:07am

re: #107 Nevergiveup

I have 3 children. Two are grown, out of house, and on their own. Those two went through school in a pre-9/11 world.

My baby is still in high school. I'm encouraging her to seriously consider the military, by way of ROTC in college. If course, it is her decision. But I am teaching her service to her country, via military, is honorable and noble.

191 lawhawk  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:52:15am

Completely OT:

A very good comic for this Memorial Day from Grand Avenue.

192 itellu3times  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:52:27am

re: #129 hermeneutics

I'm a historian -- strike one
I have an Ivy League education -- strike two.

But ... before I strike out, let me give some historical rules:

1. Any American history book written since the 1970s should be balanced with one written prior to 1960.

How about "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail"?

2. Social and cultural history are mainly revisionist. Wade carefully and challenge all assumptions.

3. Intellectual history -- my occupation -- has been mainly ignored, recently. If I could, I'd use Crane Brinton's books in class. Easy read.

Too easy, maybe. Plato gave us the democracy-oligopoly-monarchy cycle. I like a little modern anthropology thrown in. Not that de Tocqueville didn't do a heck of a job without. Or even HST, in his better days.

For those in college or university, I hate to recommend this but I will -- LIE. Just lie. You have no choice. Regurgitate everything your lefty profs want to hear. Do it early and often. Don't let them know you're conservative. Don't bother to argue. Just get the darn degree and leave.

That's what Hannity tells many college-age callers.

193 Roentgen  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:52:27am

re: #183 Kobe

Barry is really an air head - not just in History. Geraldine Ferraro is right - The only reason this buttercup is in the race is because he is black. Period. End of Story.

But he's a good looking airhead.

194 Bubbaman  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:52:51am

That's OK, Osama is fiddlin' with history but he's really an elitist so does that make him a violin? Either way, his IQ is coursing downwards...

195 JeremyR  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:52:53am

re: #174 Nevergiveup

Which way?

Won't say, my son would kill me.

196 lawhawk  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:53:10am

re: #180 Occasional Reader

Interventionism is a spectrum running from full-on invasion to taking all kinds of economic, political, diplomatic, and other means, so I actually agree with you.

197 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:53:28am

re: #184 leboaz

Just have the verbal (and environmental issues?) equivalent of Nekama's Troll Hammer ready just in case.

198 Bobblehead  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:53:50am

re: #177 realwest

Huffa puffa, huffa puffa - man this thread is really zinging right along! And I've had two cups of coffee, too!
But before I forget, if any of y'all would like to put an image of an American Flag, waving in the breeze anywhere on your desktop you'd like, FOR FREE, just go to [Link: www.deskflag.com...]

A little something to go along with the desktop flag. I hadn't heard the theme from Band of Brothers in quite some time and had forgotten how beautiful it is. Brings tears to my eyes.

199 MarkX  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:54:40am

re: #151 laZardo

It's no laughing matter. At one point in the 8th grade I seriously believed that the Earth would have passed the point where there would not be enough resources to sustain life, and there would be a catastrophic collapse of ecosystems and wildlife starting at - oh, say - by the end of the year.

At least you grew up. That can't be said about the left.

200 jainphx  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:54:41am

re: #146 MarkX

You are right on.

201 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:54:51am

re: #182 pingjockey Could be but I'd swear I'd seen photos out here on LGF that showed Obama flanked by the NOI folk- you know the guys in the black suits, white shirts and black ties and all of whom just happen to be Black themselves!
I hope I'm right about this; I hate to see View from Ireland be right about this!

202 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:54:56am

re: #196 lawhawk

And actually I DO... [deep breath]... agree with Obama's stated position that the Bush administration has not taken Chavez seriously enough. Of course, I don't trust Barry for one minute to do anything other than appease.

203 jcm  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:55:10am

re: #172 WayDownSouthInBama

Well,against my better judgment,I went over to the Obama site. There's a lot of things over there I find questionable. One of them is this:

"We can offer more than the tyranny of oil."

Oil is no longer a resource to the left. It represents a "tyranny" that must be thrown off at any cost. Just think about the mindset of anyone who sees a natural resource as a tyranny.

I liked this comment too:

"We cannot ignore suffering to our south, nor stand for the globalization of the empty stomach suit." There,fixed that for you Senator.

Why is it the left applies morals to things?

Is it because of the left's abject avoidance of responsibility and that determining individuals make moral judgements. Once you assign the ability to make moral judgements to an individual, what follows is other individuals and society be required to judge that individuals judgements.

Therefore to avoid this clearly dangerous path the left decides to avoid assigning morals to people and instead assigns morals to things.

Now they don't have to judge the regime in Tehran, it's the tyranny of oil.

Very neat and clean, and utter madness and folly.

204 SpartanWoman  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:55:52am

re: #168 Charles

It's the least we can do when we recall the fantastic and brave role CHelsea played in SOmalia.

205 hermeneutics  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:56:06am

re: #169 realwest

Realwest, I was in diapers in the 1960s so I can't say much about the universities then. I think, though, that lefty bias is less challenged now. In the humanities, at least, no dissent from the prevailing orthodoxies is allowed. Publications accepted/applauded by the academy are uncritical of their own presuppositions.

As a woman, I was burned by the feminists. I refused to join, to become a "feminist historian." Frankly, I don't think my scholarship has anything to do with what is between my legs ... or not. I'm still struggling mightily with this pressure.

It is much easier for men to be conservative academics than it is for women, but that's another story.

206 Shr_Nfr  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:56:23am

Sadly, most Americans are totally ignorant of World History in forms that matter. They get some American History from the revolution to the civil war, and some ancient history of Greece and Rome and that is about it as a part of the normal curriculum. In this Obama is just a run of the mill moron product of the American educational system. It is no small wonder that we get what we get. If you walk up to the average American and say Goldziher, they will probably say "Bless You" because they though you sneezed. No concept of the mentality of the ME or anything else for that matter. Sadly it will not get any better. A critical reading of the documents of the time does not occur. All most Americans get (if they even get that) is the grass the cow grazed on from the rear end of the cow. Its come a long way since the booksellers in London stated that they sold more books in the States (~1760s) than they sold in England. Now it plop yourself down and do the ego trip with your blog on myspace and watch the TV. If you still remember how to read, you read People magazine. Truly sad.

207 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:57:11am

re: #203 jcm

Therefore to avoid this clearly dangerous path the left decides to avoid assigning morals to people and instead assigns morals to things.

Excellent analysis. Oil is bad, carbon is bad, "hunger" is bad... never mind regimes that make people hungry...

208 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:57:13am

re: #191 lawhawk Great post lawhawk - truly great.
Thank you for that one.

209 pingjockey  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:58:00am

re: #201 realwest
We must dig deeper! But I looked at a lot of videos!

210 hermeneutics  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:59:34am

re: #192 itellu3times

Fear and loathing on the campaign trail ... nice. New title. Same topic!

211 leboaz  Sun, May 25, 2008 9:59:48am

re: #197 laZardo
gotcha. There's peace in the family now, but a couple of years back, my dear daughter in law went on a rant about the govt. listening in on her cell phone. I went ballistic. I asked her what she had to hide. I said 'My life is essentially over, but I will support whatever it takes- period- to stop the terrorists'. I said her kids were the most important thing in my world and I didn't care whether she was inconvenienced in the least. She kissed me with tears in her eyes. No more auguements.

212 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:00:01am

re: #198 Bobblehead Ah, yeah.
Very emotional weekend for some of us: spent most of the day yesterday with Mom at a VA hospital down here, just to say "hi" to the wounded/ill troops. Really enjoyed their company -truly upbeat men and women; really sad to see how few visitors there were.

213 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:00:09am

re: #199 MarkX

As someone who grew up in the most irradiated generation thus far, I still feel the metaphorical equivalent of its leukemia.

214 Dianna  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:01:30am

re: #129 hermeneutics

3. Intellectual history -- my occupation -- has been mainly ignored, recently. If I could, I'd use Crane Brinton's books in class. Easy read.

Given Brinton's absolutely brilliant prose, and his clearly stated premises, I've never been able to understand why he isn't used. In fact, you're the first person I've seen mention him (except me) since my Russian Revolution class back in the 1980's.

215 Sacred Plants  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:02:53am

Wow. He manages to line up the orange jumpsuit crowd behind himself without actually speaking out the G-word. What an ellipse.

216 hermeneutics  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:03:10am

re: #214 Dianna

Dianna,

He's out of print. I think. But I have copied large sections of his prose and made it required reading. The "kids" loved it.

217 Occasional Reader  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:03:18am

It would be interesting in the context of Obama's comments about Chavez, to round up some of the on-the-record, pro-Chavez statements made by Democratic members of Congress (e.g. Maxine Waters, IIRC). So, do you "disown" these folks, Barry? Or will you give us a long, wandering explanation that includes the word "notion"?

218 Dave the.....  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:03:54am
For those in college or university, I hate to recommend this but I will -- LIE. Just lie. You have no choice. Regurgitate everything your lefty profs want to hear. Do it early and often. Don't let them know you're conservative. Don't bother to argue. Just get the darn degree and leave.

I took the GMAT test last year, and read that the graders like to be PC. So in one of the essays, I talked about "Global Warming". I didn't go over the top...as in the world is going to end.....but talked about how it affects current business trends (to hedge in case the grader isn't a believer). Did quite well on the test. My assumption was that the grader liked to hear about clmiate change.

219 azcon  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:04:59am

Whether he knows his history or not (and I'm not suggesting that he does) he's just counting on his followers (Obamnaics) to either ignore his "gaffes" or be too ignorant to know the truth. Democrats over-promised (lied) in Iraq
They've done it in the past.

220 Shr_Nfr  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:06:23am

re: #173 hermeneutics

You can also do it as an engineer. Being a PhD in course 6 (EE) at MIT I did not have the stuff presented to me formally, however, there is nothing that has prevented me from going out to my friendly local book vendor and buying and reading a large number of books on the topic. The easy way out is to buy a couple of video courses on the subject from the Teaching Company. For the most part, they are well worth the cost when they put them on sale. Sadly, the moonbat population only reads things by other moonbats. The wise read things by those who are opposed to their position. It shows them where the opposition is wrong or they are wrong. Either way that is a service.

221 hermeneutics  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:07:06am

Non-military, conservative colleges that don't completely undermine your kids:

1. Most of the colleges in the Christian Consortium including Wheaton, in Illinois.
2. Hillsdale, MI
3. Roman Catholics have several colleges that use a traditional curriculum ... names, please?
4. My kid goes to Pepperdine. It isn't congenial, but acceptable. Good education.

Add to this list, please.


(Of course, if you major in the sciences, the indoctrination isn't as much of an issue.)

222 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:07:20am

re: #205 hermeneutics
Oh. Joy. You were in your diapers in the '60's and I was in camo fatigues in the late 60's. Man do I feel old today.
Well, in the mid 60's if you opposed the government (that is, LBJ) and said so loud and clear you'd get an "A" from any Sociology Professor on campus*.
I suspect - based on what you and others have said, that the same sort of thing is happening in history departments now.

*One notable exception was one of my sociology (it was a requirement for graduation) professors, with long hair, BIG mustache and from "South Amercia" asked us to do a research paper on any one of 5 things that the bad USA was doing in Vietnam. I did mine rebutting all 5 of his premises. He gave me an A+ (to my shock) and four weeks later I got a phone call from the CIA asking me if I'd be interested in working for them.
I did go for the interview (another story, another time) and was told that a certain professor had recommended me to the CIA - yep, it was said marxist looking, talking sociologist professor! LOL!

223 hermeneutics  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:10:56am

re: #218 Dave the.....

Yea, it works! My daughter and friends took the high school test in AP History. I sat them down and gave them a list of words with which to pepper their essays including ... hermeneutics!

224 jainphx  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:11:12am

Ah the 60's. Assassinations, Riots, cities burning, protesters coming out the old wazzoo, who could forget them. Obama wants to take us back there, I say no way once was enough.

225 laZardo  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:12:09am

re: #222 realwest

Either your professor was a plant or maybe it was an attempt at sarc that backfired epically. LOL.

226 hermeneutics  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:12:17am

re: #222 realwest

Great story!
I try to look the part too. Shhhhh.

227 FrogMarch  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:12:39am

No wonder left-wingers and assorted simple-minded cretins blindly adore this man. Obama blames everything under the sun on Bush.

Bush is to blame for all left-wing constipation!

228 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:14:25am
229 FrogMarch  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:15:20am

It's just like left-wingers and their sloppy historical wish-facts. Kyoto is Bush's fault too. Never mind that it was the Clinton Congress that didn't ratify the crap deal.

230 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:15:21am

re: #207 Occasional Reader "never mind regimes that make people hungry dead..." There, fixed that for ya!

231 FrogMarch  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:16:54am

Re-write history to fit the wish-fact generator. After all holy and precious left-wingers are allowed to lie.

232 scalleywag  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:17:35am

Mr. Obama says just exactly what the liberals love to hear, negative comments about the Bush administration. Whether he knows what he is talking about or not (mostly not) doesn't matter Facts? Not important. History? He hasn't read it and likely can't be bothered. He sounds more and more like a KOS kid.

233 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:18:15am

re: #225 laZardo Plant.
Absolutely a plant.

234 realwest  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:19:42am

re: #229 FrogMarch Yeah, it's almost as if they think Bush is running for re-election!
Gee, you don't think that they.............nah, even they can't be that stupid.

235 Dianna  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:25:16am

re: #226 hermeneutics

I bopped over to Amazon, and found that Crane Brinton's not entirely out of print: Crane Brinton books available

I'm going to put it up as a link. You never know, someone might find themselves interested.

236 jcm  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:28:57am

re: #234 realwest

Yeah, it's almost as if they think Bush is running for re-election!
Gee, you don't think that they.............nah, even they can't be that stupid.

BHO said it.

237 gymnast  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:32:56am

The Obamas, empirical proof that even idiots can get an Ivy League education under the "right conditions".

238 scalleywag  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:33:31am

In all seriousness, if this guy manages to get elected president (God forbid) we should demand that he be required to take university history courses. There's too much at stake these days for him to spout off about things he doesn't understand and appease people we don't want to bend over for. Have Alex Trebek host a historical Jeapordy session for him to try and get through.

239 MarkX  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:40:57am

re: #213 laZardo


LOL.

240 DistantThunder  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:44:02am

OK, I'm officially questioning Obama's intelligence AND patriotism.

241 kevinmumaw  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:47:01am

Obama is kind of dumb. I'm starting to think he really thought there were 57 states.

242 Miss Molly  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:49:56am

Change -- OK - We get it Barak. But, change to what. You are going to have to spell it out and if you refuse to tells us exactly the very specific changes you have in mind what are you afraid of?

243 Former Belgian  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:58:24am

"Diplomadic" (an blog by some "underground" non-tranzis at the State Department) has a hilarious story on how he interviewed Ivy League graduates for internships, asked them some basic questions about WW II and the emergence of NATO (quite relevant to their job, since the NATO countries were handled by his desk). You can imagine the results.

[Link: diplomadic.blogspot.com...]

James Taranto of the WSJ (he of "Best of the Web") has a rather interesting hypothesis about what the real function of colleges is these days. Basically, the corporate world needs some sort of filter for intelligence (not actual knowledge). However, if they would administer IQ or SAT-type tests, they would get hit by lawsuits because such tests are supposedly biased against certain minorities. But there is no law against requiring a college degree (or a college degree from a selective college) for a job that doesn't really require one. And these colleges are allowed to use SATs, obviously --- with or without "affirmative action" boosts.

Net result: in "liberal arts" colleges one spends US$100-200K for four years of what increasingly amounts to intellectual circle-j*rking just so one can get an entry-level corporate desk job.

None of this obviously applies to science, engineering, ... degrees where one actually has to learn something. But less and less American college kids are going for such degrees because they are both expensive AND hard work. Regurgitating post-Marxist claptrap is much easier on one's extracurricular time than cramming for Advanced Calculus or Thermodynamics ;-)

244 Former Belgian  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:59:04am

Oops, here is the James Taranto piece:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

245 jihad worrier  Sun, May 25, 2008 10:59:41am

Bush fails reporter's pop quiz...

The front-runner for the 2000 Republican presidential nomination faltered Thursday in an international affairs pop quiz posed by Andy Hiller, a political reporter for WHDH-TV in Boston.

Gee, do you think we can find old Andy Hiller and convince him to give Obama a pop history quiz? Nah... didn't think so.

246 Former Belgian  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:00:22am

re: #240 DistantThunder

re: #240 DistantThunder

OK, I'm officially questioning Obama's intelligence AND patriotism.

Not to mention his good faith.

247 debutaunt  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:15:42am

re: #178 The Other Les

Hoping for Hope!

Hopelheads.

248 venezuela lover  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:28:21am

President Bush's Venezuela policy is almost perfect. Bush is playing his Chavez fiddle just fine. Bush has never said the name Hugo Chavez in public even when directly asked "who is the leader of Venezeula?" I wish the State Dept. would be somewhat more vocal everytime Chavez disrespects the United States or George Bush.

Obama will be a Chavez/Castro toy if elected President of the U.S. If the Chicago machine can buy Obama, then Chavez' petro dollars will turn Obama into a Chavista rapida.

249 winston06  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:31:47am

show me one Liberal that knows history well....

250 anotherindyfilmguy  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:33:42am

Obamamessiah either never does any research/never studied and is ignorant of even the simplest basic historic facts OR he is deliberately lying to distort the facts and bash Bush etc...
No wonder the MSM likes him, it's like he a lefty journalism grad cum network anchor... he's just one of them and they can't comprehend why he's not beloved by all since they have it made etc...

251 debutaunt  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:33:52am

re: #238 scalleywag

In all seriousness, if this guy manages to get elected president (God forbid) we should demand that he be required to take university history courses. There's too much at stake these days for him to spout off about things he doesn't understand and appease people we don't want to bend over for. Have Alex Trebek host a historical Jeopardy session for him to try and get through.

Imagine all the ummms and you knows and errrrrs.

252 Mich-again  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:35:41am

Q: Senator Obama, who is buried in Grant's Tomb.

A: You know, I don't know if anyone can really say for sure, but I can say with all confidence that if my health care plan was around before he died whoever it is in there might still be alive. Next Question Sweetie...

253 godfrey  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:45:53am

He probably thinks 1683 was the date of the last Christian crusade.

254 Sharmuta  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:54:52am

Some history questions for senator obama:

What happened on November 4, 1979?
What happened on October 23, 1983?
What happened on October 7, 1985?
What happened on December 21, 1988?
What happened on February 26, 1993?
What happened on August 7, 1998?
What happened on October 12, 2000?

255 Sharmuta  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:59:46am

re: #253 godfrey

He probably doesn't know from whom the Dutch won their independence.

256 jcm  Sun, May 25, 2008 12:11:04pm

re: #254 Sharmuta

Some history questions for senator obama:

What happened on November 4, 1979?
What happened on October 23, 1983?
What happened on October 7, 1985?
What happened on December 21, 1988?
What happened on February 26, 1993?
What happened on August 7, 1998?
What happened on October 12, 2000?

I was asleep during Wright's sermons on those days, didn't hear a thing. Now let me finish my waffle.
/BHO

257 AKforty777  Sun, May 25, 2008 12:27:02pm

re: #254 Sharmuta

Some history questions for senator obama:

What happened on November 4, 1979?
What happened on October 23, 1983?
What happened on October 7, 1985?
What happened on December 21, 1988?
What happened on February 26, 1993?
What happened on August 7, 1998?
What happened on October 12, 2000?

Sept 11, 2001 should also be added this quiz.

258 LEGION  Sun, May 25, 2008 12:40:16pm

Stupid is as stupid does. Elections are a box of chocolates- there are too many with nuts.

259 6pat6  Sun, May 25, 2008 1:08:23pm

re: #113 Bubbaman

Wazi's - Weltsozialistische Arbeiter-Partei.(World Socialist Worker's Party).


You may have coined something there. And it is spot-on in it's scope. Scary shit, to be sure.

260 godfrey  Sun, May 25, 2008 1:09:00pm

re: #254 Sharmuta

Beautiful.

261 6pat6  Sun, May 25, 2008 1:10:18pm

I question EVERYTHING about:

Senator Barack Hussein Obama, Esquire, Junior Jackass of Illinois.

262 6pat6  Sun, May 25, 2008 1:11:55pm

re: #254 Sharmuta

Indeed! Hell, ask him about the history of the American Revolution and the founding of our great Nation! I'll be money he can't tell you shit about anything about our Nation's early days ... of course, our Founders were slave-owners, and that's probably it.

263 kuffarharbi  Sun, May 25, 2008 1:35:16pm

Historical ignorance is the Achilles' heel of all lefties, revisionists, US and Israel haters, self loathing anti-imperialist and anti-colonial BBC watching and Guardian reading socialists, Muslims, New Agers....oh God I could go on but it's so tiresome.
All that's needed when faced with one of these intellectually challenged morons is a few choice questions concerning some dates and names and their fraudulence and irrationality is well and truly exposed. It's a process I really enjoy.
I was undergoing the torment of conversing with a BBC brainwashed member of my family the other day and I asked her to tell me all about the 6-Day-War. She said it occurred in 1968 when Israel attacked Jordan and Egypt. Just one example.

264 Weresheep  Sun, May 25, 2008 1:53:18pm

BHO is a leftist and that accounts for a lot of his political posturing and a degree of disconnection from reality that is typical for the leftist paradigm.

But looking at his gaffes in total... It reminds me of a commercial in late 80's -- "this is your brain on drugs".

265 GGMac  Sun, May 25, 2008 2:11:41pm

re: #25 Onslow

Since the Bush Administration launched a misguided war in Iraq, its policy in the Americas has been negligent toward our friends, ineffective with our adversaries, disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives, and incapable of advancing our interests in the region.

Does he mean uninterested?

Excellent catch!

And, of course, his husseinness hasn't a clue!

266 Macker  Sun, May 25, 2008 2:12:18pm

re: #218 Dave the.....

Yep. The #1 skill to learn in the Ivory Tower™ Universities is how to bullshit your profs.

267 Macker  Sun, May 25, 2008 2:13:16pm

re: #265 GGMac

Excellent catch!

And, of course, his husseinness hasn't a clue!

Hey can I use that nickname for Barry on my blog?

268 hl mencken  Sun, May 25, 2008 2:19:55pm

i can't figure this guy out.....is he jimmy carter or michael dukakis?

either way, we're in for a world of hurt if he defies logic and makes it to the oval office.

269 Peter Verkooijen  Sun, May 25, 2008 2:39:36pm

Facts don't matter. Easy to understand myths will stick as long as the media does nothing to dispell them, like Republicans getting blamed for Vietnam and segregation in the old South.

270 mattm  Sun, May 25, 2008 2:41:35pm

Who needs facts when you have Hope for Change in the Future.

271 Vero  Sun, May 25, 2008 2:59:51pm

Yes we can!

Raise your taxes
Tell you what to eat
What to drive
How warm to heat your home


YES WE CAN! nice slogan

272 Annar  Sun, May 25, 2008 3:03:22pm

re: #11 Onslow

Obama is making me question the value of an Ivy League education.

I wonder too. When I finished my B.S. (Math and Physics) I had a good formation in the classics, the humanities, Philosophy and Political Science. Having met some recent Ivy League graduates I find their ignorance on the basics of what used to be a classical educatuion truly stunning.

Obama is a law school type, they never really do learn anything important. Look at congress, for example.

273 Callisthenes  Sun, May 25, 2008 3:55:28pm

If you give a fair reading to Obama's comments, it doesn't sound like he's blaming Bush for Chavez's election. He's saying that US influence in the Americas has decreased because of Bush, and that the influence of people like Chavez has seen a corresponding gain.

You guys should try addressing that argument instead of the strawman that you've got going on now.

274 Irving  Sun, May 25, 2008 4:27:53pm

Shh... you'll ruin the acoustics in the echo chamber.

275 GGMac  Sun, May 25, 2008 4:52:46pm

re: #267 Macker

Hey can I use that nickname for Barry on my blog?


Help yerself, with my compliments!

276 GGMac  Sun, May 25, 2008 5:02:42pm

#267 Macker

Just took the enlarged look at your avatar...that critter seems to bear a curious resemblance to Gov. Christ (FL). Is it my eyes, or just that I don't care for him as veep? (One give-illegals-all-they-want on the ticket is painful enough)

277 EE  Sun, May 25, 2008 5:23:49pm

Obama's historical ignorance is being uncovered.

But it's more than that. We are seeing the Audacity of Fabrication, which is produced by the fact that Obama is confidant that his audience is not able to check his facts. So he makes up stuff, fabricating his facts, to bolster whatever point he wants to make.

This is the reverse of the process of looking at the facts and then reaching a conclusion based on the facts. This involves having a pre-determined conclusion that you want to present, and then having the audacity to fabricate "facts" to support that conclusion.

The mainstream media give him a pass on all of this, so it encourages Obama to continue having the Audacity of Fabrication.

278 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, May 25, 2008 5:34:22pm
279 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, May 25, 2008 5:35:46pm
280 CatHerder  Sun, May 25, 2008 5:50:16pm

I can only assume he meant that we didn't hear a whole lot about Chavez in the news, acting like the whackjob that he is, until after Iraq?

(At least, I don't remember hearing a whole lot about him before the last few years.)

281 LeonidasOfSparta  Sun, May 25, 2008 6:24:29pm

re: #273 Callisthenes
aww you sound bitter. Cling often to your myths?

"Facts don't matter. Easy to understand myths will stick as long as the media does nothing to dispell them, like Republicans getting blamed for Vietnam and segregation in the old South."

Thank you, PeterVerkooijen, for stating it all so clearly.

282 Callisthenes  Sun, May 25, 2008 6:44:55pm

re: #278 ploome hineni

I'm not suggesting anything except that most people in this thread are attacking Obama for something he didn't actually say. His argument is that the US has less influence in the Americas and people like Chavez have more as a result of Bush's actions. Chavez's agenda hasn't changed because of Bush, but other nations and people are more receptive to him because of Bush.

That's Barack's argument, not mine. If you disagree with it, that's what you should be attacking, not the strawman that Obama thinks Chavez was elected because of Bush.

283 Callisthenes  Sun, May 25, 2008 6:51:20pm

re: #281 LeonidasOfSparta

Bitter, no. Amused, yes. It's hilarious that in a thread that's supposed to be about "facts", everyone is attacking Obama for something he didn't say. If you guys were a little more honest then you'd acknowledge that and address Obama's argument instead of patting yourselves on the back for noticing that Chavez was in power before Bush was.

A few people have noticed it, and good for them. It's hard to believe that the rest of you think for yourselves.

284 norar  Sun, May 25, 2008 7:11:05pm

I would not put past Obama deliberately screwing up facts. IMO, he is exceptionally cynical guy. I doubt his supporters on the left cought up with the mind blowing cynicism of the most of his bullshit speeches.

OTOH, being life time political manipulator he must know his audience pretty well, thus his many slogans and empty rhetorics, that appeal to the feel good junkies majority of the lefties are.

285 Irving  Sun, May 25, 2008 7:18:51pm

It's been going on for quite some time, really. Charles has been posting just about every verbal gaffe that Obama's made to date, looking for some dirt that'll stick. It's not happening. Hence my comment about the echo chamber. Posters on this thread are tying terribly hard to convince themselves that the rest of the world will see Obama as a lightweight and appeaser and elect someone other than Obama. (Just who is open to question - McCain wins no prizes around here.)

Let's leave alone the fact that this is pretty much what Hillary Clinton is hoping for. Let's just try genuine honesty. If I was to lay $20 on the outcome on this race, it would be on Obama. The obstacles McCain has to overcome are huge, and the biggest one is the sitting President. Calling a town "Sunshine" instead of "Sunrise" is not going to change this. Nor is an obtuse reading of Obama's comments in the hope of mischaracterizing him as stupid. Anything can happen, but this isn't the thing that'll stop this scenario.

The awful truth is that this extended campaign is proving to be a blessing for Obama. We've had better people that Charles trying to poke holes in Obama's aura of charisma for a long, long time - and Charles is no slouch. McCain's been reduced to using more or less the same script the Republicans used against Kerry, with some laughable results (an "elitist"? A black man? In America? Really?)

But I doubt that the usual posters here are going to acknowledge the strengths of Obama's hand until November.

286 kansas  Sun, May 25, 2008 8:46:49pm

re: #11 Onslow

Obama is making me question the value of an Ivy League education.

Must be a fine education. The guy can utter stupidities all day long and his credibility seems to remain rock solid. All is well in the garden.

287 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:54:37pm
288 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, May 25, 2008 11:56:48pm
289 Proud to be an Infidel  Mon, May 26, 2008 3:42:28am

Quote: "This is pathetic. Hugo Chavez came to power during the Clinton Administration, and was first elected President of Venezuela in 1998, two years before the Bush Administration took office."


And the MSM did not pick up on that? Now why does that not surprise me?

290 Sacred Plants  Mon, May 26, 2008 6:00:00am

re: #248 venezuela lover

Bush has never said the name Hugo Chavez in public even when directly asked "who is the leader of Venezeula?"

The Simon Bolivar variety of Godwin´ Law. ;o)

291 eaglewingz08  Mon, May 26, 2008 6:04:22am

I don't think the Obamanation is saying that Chavez came to power during Pres Bush's term in office. I think what he is saying is that if only Pres Bush had offered to have lunch with Chavez, then Chavez wouldn't be hanging around with Mahmoud and China and Ecuadorian and Nicaraguan and Cuban commies, and he wouldn't be supporting FARC to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. It is even more pathetic attitude of the Obamanation than the article attributes to him.

292 Former Belgian  Mon, May 26, 2008 6:22:32am

re: #285 Irving


The awful truth is that this extended campaign is proving to be a blessing for Obama. We've had better people that Charles trying to poke holes in Obama's aura of charisma for a long, long time - and Charles is no slouch. McCain's been reduced to using more or less the same script the Republicans used against Kerry, with some laughable results (an "elitist"? A black man? In America? Really?)

But I doubt that the usual posters here are going to acknowledge the strengths of Obama's hand until November.

Well, if only blacks and the New Class got to vote, snobama would be a shoo-in. (In my very frequent contacts with US academia, I have already learned the hard way that stating my unvarnished opinion of hell-nObama --- an empty suit at best, and an outright "tranzi"/"transnational oligarchic collectivist" at worst --- makes me quite unpopular.) Of course, lamestream media hype will give him a big boost with some of the rest, as does general malaise on the Republican side and the possibility that hardline conservatives will choose to stay home rather than vote for McCain whom they consider to be a Democrat Lite.

But that still leaves a heck of a lot of people. I think nObama's primary results in certain states speak for themselves. My own scenario-set for November ranges from a fairly narrow Obama victory (in which case we're gonna be nostalgic for Dubya and Slick Willie alike) to a 1972-style landslide for McCain, with a fairly narrow McCain victory most probable.

Look, I see types like snObama (mostly white) all the time. As much as I respect and appreciate the professional skills of many of them in their professions, I wouldn't vote for any of them (or myself, same difference) as dog catcher. The skill sets required are way too different, and most of them project the interests and sensibilities of the New Class onto all of society.

293 Callisthenes  Mon, May 26, 2008 8:38:00am

re: #287 ploome hineni

How about Bolivia and Nicaragua? You know, the countries that Obama actually mentioned in his speech, if you had bothered to read it and make up our own mind instead of just blindly following what Charles tells you.

I think it's about time that there's an update to this story where Charles acknowledges that he mischaracterized Obama's comments.

294 ronnie  Mon, May 26, 2008 9:35:53am

Charles et al -

Happy Memorial Day. Well, Charles Krauthammer had a great piece on how Barack's faux pas has become one of the pillars of his misguided foreign policy:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Changing topics - a quick joke. Chelsea Clinton was recently campaigning and stopped at the Walter Reed Medical Facility and asked a wounded soldier "what scares you?"

His reply: "3 things....Osama......Obama.....and yo mama!"

295 smitheejr  Mon, May 26, 2008 10:37:06am
Changing topics - a quick joke. Chelsea Clinton was recently campaigning and stopped at the Walter Reed Medical Facility and asked a wounded soldier "what scares you?"
His reply: "3 things....Osama......Obama.....and yo mama!"

Though I did laugh :) Considering how Walter collapsed under Bush and the Republican majority congress buried the report that detailed the sorry conditions until the press got wind of it TWO YEARS later I would think (in humor and reality) they'd be more afraid of a McCain presidency...but it's hard to rhyme things with McCain beyond pain. I believe the post took a poll around December that showed that most service people (breaking a long tradition) would prefer a democrat president for a change. They'd be the likeliest to end the stop-loss, probably wouldn't start a new unnecessary war, and more likely to take care of them when they get out......they should take a new poll after McCain's lack of support for the G.I. Bill :)

Since the Bush Administration launched a misguided war in Iraq, its policy in the Americas has been negligent toward our friends, ineffective with our adversaries, disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives, and incapable of advancing our interests in the region.
No wonder, then, that demagogues like Hugo Chavez have stepped into this vacuum.
This is pathetic. Hugo Chavez came to power during the Clinton Administration, and was first elected President of Venezuela in 1998, two years before the Bush Administration took office.

I remember when Kerry said there should be a litmus test before starting a war and then we saw all of these people like Ms. Rice and other Republicans making the morning talk show circuit with the same script, the same confusion over what he means by test...it was kind of funny seeing these people act like they've never been to college and were devoid of any common sense. Even a child knew he meant maybe...just maybe...it's a good idea to gather a little unbiased evidence a country is seeking to harm you before you start a war of choice killing thousands of troops, creating millions of refugees, and involving us into a quagmire of Vietnam proportions. Just maybe knowing a few facts before you leap is helpful, cowboy. The same is true for Barack...clearly, to anyone with a basic education or without blood stained rosy Republican glasses...Barack isn't saying Bush got this yahoo elected, he's saying old Hugo is more powerful now than he ought to be. Just like Iran is the main beneficiary of the chaos in Iraq thanks to Bush, Hugo has more clout now too. All of which is at the feet of Bush's foolishness and his enablers.

296 Infidel Pride  Tue, May 27, 2008 6:42:46am

Obamessiah (or is he the hidden Imam? Given his attempts at burying his middle name you could be forgiven for thinking that way. Add to that, the eagerness that his would be negotiating partner has been showing for the second coming, one is left whether BHO is just what the doctor ordered for America's enemies.

While the lamestream media has been gunning for Bush all along, a list of his Ivy League educated would-be-successors gaffes would make Bush look like a regular genius,but I guess the media is out finishing their waffles!

297 Indepublicrat  Tue, May 27, 2008 7:48:38am

Obama didn't claim that Chavez was first elected during W's term but that Bush's foreign policy doctrines allowed Chavez to mine anti-American resentments for his own political gain. That is a credible opinion to which a reasonable person might agree or respectfully disagree. You may be right to say it's naive but it's disingenuous to call it "a stunning ignorance of history."

I think the vacuum referred to here is a piece of America's Shadow left over from the fall of the Soviet Union. Chavez badly wants the cred that comes in some quarters with being an enemy of America. With the Castro dictatorship winding down, he sees an opening for Axis of Evil leadership, Western Hemisphere Branch.


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