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Tuesday Evening Politics Chat

Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:22:02 pm PDT

As we wait to hear whether Hillary Clinton will bow out tonight, and whether Barack Obama will name her as his vice presdiential running mate (a joint position with husband Bill), here’s another thread to bat the issues around.

A horrible daydream keeps disturbing my reverie today, in which Hillary Clinton ends up being the running mate of ... John McCain. Discuss.

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320 comments

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1 jcm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:22:31pm

N☭bama.

2 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:23:15pm
Hillary Clinton ends up being the running mate of ... John McCain. Discuss.

I said the same thing a few months back...I was wearing my tinfoil hat then...but I might not need it anymore.

3 zombie  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:23:26pm
A horrible daydream keeps disturbing my reverie today, in which Hillary Clinton ends up being the running mate of ... John McCain. Discuss.

I was going to make that EXACT joke!

Well, at least it made the front page.

4 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:23:42pm
A horrible daydream keeps disturbing my reverie today, in which Hillary Clinton ends up being the running mate of ... John McCain. Discuss.

Well, he'd probably win.

5 Carridine  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:23:51pm

Gobama!

Pertinent!

6 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:24:08pm
7 mink  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:24:36pm

I'd take McCain/Clinton over Obama/Anybody any day of the week and twice on Sundays - but that's just me.

8 BulgarWheat  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:24:38pm

Once we had a liberal, a socialist, and a marxist.

Now we only have a liberal and a marxist.

Okay, someone tell me how this is going to improve.

9 Charles  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:24:38pm

By the way, the Spy now shows new spinoff links as they're posted, in addition to comments.

Working on getting ratings and front page articles into the mix.

10 zombie  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:24:49pm

I think McCain + Hillary would WIN the general election ...

... and 95% of the electorate would subsequently be mortified and disgusted by the result.

Even though they did the voting.

11 Carridine  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:25:17pm

re: #6 song_and_dance_man

McCain-Lieberman 2008

Real possibilities there!

12 MES41067  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:25:21pm

If he makes her vp then he's nuttier than a squirrel turd.

13 Cognito Primoris  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:25:30pm
A horrible daydream keeps disturbing my reverie today, in which Hillary Clinton ends up being the running mate of ... John McCain. Discuss.

I refuse.

14 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:25:39pm

Even though it looks as if Senator O will be their candidate, I still cannot believe he will be their candidate.

15 WrathofG-d  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:26:07pm

I'll vote for Obama if someone can explain to me what "Change We Can Believe In" actually means.

16 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:26:12pm

"Hillary Clinton ends up being the running mate of ... John McCain. Discuss."
That would be a disaster wrapped in a catastrophe surrounded by the end of the world. But I would still vote for IT over Obama!

17 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:26:15pm

re: #10 zombie

You know Zombie, McCain has promised that if Hillary is his running mate, the metric system will be the law of the land.

18 MES41067  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:26:17pm

Not that he isn't already nuts that is.

19 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:26:22pm

re: #11 Carridine

Possibilities that they'd go down in flames. I don't see Lieberman joining a McCain ticket because he wouldn't bring any geographical locations into the mix that McCain needs to win.

20 Bosch Fawstin  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:26:51pm

The ant--Obama vote's going to clinch it for McCain.

21 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:26:52pm

I read an article by a liberal about a month ago. The headline was "The Racist, the Liar, or the Warmonger?"

22 WrathofG-d  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:27:08pm

re: #16 Nevergiveup


If McCain knows what is good for his personal health, he won't pick a Clinton to be his VP.

23 zombie  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:27:30pm

The question is:

Is O + H better or worse for the Dems than H + O ?

My opinion:

Hillary as pres and O as VP would enable the Dems to win the general election.

BUT...

O as pres and Hillary as VP is the worst of both worlds and will guarantee their defeat.

24 Carridine  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:27:45pm

re: #14 Catttt Blinded by the light of Obama's voting numbers WHEN RUNNING AGAINST Democrats, they see only the awesome golden glow outlining him, NOT the contrast with McCain...

25 jcm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:27:47pm

Political Eduction!

A public school field trip...to the local illegal alien day labor center

It wasn’t your typical field trip that Danielle Quinto took her fourth-grade class at Our Community School in North Hills on last week.
Her 25 students - all from lower- to middle-class working families - didn’t go to the Los Angeles Zoo or Travel Town.
Instead, they went to see men whom they said scared them, men they thought were dangerous and stole things.
Quinto took her class of 9-year-old children on a field trip to a city-funded, day-labor work site in North Hollywood near a Home Depot.
“It was a little weird taking the kids on a field trip like this, but it turned out to be a teacher’s dream,” the young, charter school teacher said Monday.
26 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:28:16pm
27 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:28:18pm

re: #25 jcm

More like INDOCTRINATION.

28 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:28:25pm

bill would go for it. he would attach himself to anyone to get back in the white house.

29 Carridine  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:28:26pm

re: #19 lawhawk
Ah!
Got it. Thx!

30 jcm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:28:54pm

re: #27 Jetpilot1101

More like INDOCTRINATION.

Nah! Only commies do that...... wait a minute.....

31 Dartmouth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:29:22pm

re: #15 WrathofG-d

I'll vote for Obama if someone can explain to me what "Change We Can Believe In" actually means.

I'm not a fan of the slogan, but I think it means that Oba--- *gasp* the name!

๏̯͡๏

HOPE! CHANGE! BANDWAGON!
CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

32 EC Marm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:29:44pm

Hillary floats the VP balloon.
Obama stays silent.
The female contingent of the Dem party notices and takes righteous offense.
Could it switch more than a couple of superdelegates to Hillary?

33 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:29:45pm

re: #15 WrathofG-d

I'll vote for Obama if someone can explain to me what "Change We Can Believe In" actually means.

Silly! It's as opposed to the other kind of change, you know, empty political slogans, fancy photo ops, and spin doctoring.

/please ignore the man behind the curtain

34 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:29:49pm

And now for something of real substance. I think I'm ready to roll out my revised blog. 3 columns... a few new toys, though nothing in comparison to what Charles has going. Just needed to revamp it with more real estate space available for information.

35 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:29:54pm

re: #22 WrathofG-d

If McCain knows what is good for his personal health, he won't pick a Clinton to be his VP.

I think he would kick both their asses and twice on Sunday.

36 Tigger2005  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:30:17pm

The Obama lover was all smiles after work today. I said, "If he wins, I just hope we can survive four years of Carter II. Those were the most miserable four years of my life. When Reagan won, it was like a ray of light." He was just shaking his head. He doesn't understand. He's incapable of understanding. He lacks the requisite Enlightenment philosophical, logical, and rational background to comprehend how Obama's views are contrary to the fundamental principles upon which America was built. I once explained to him how my opposition to Obama is based on facts, and proceeded to list those facts. I asked him what he based his support for Obama on...leg tingles? He said it was more in the upper thigh. I don't think he was joking.

37 zombie  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:30:23pm

re: #17 Jetpilot1101

You know Zombie, McCain has promised that if Hillary is his running mate, the metric system will be the law of the land.

NOOOOOOOOOOO! ! ! ! ! !

If that happens I'll have to move to...

...move to...

....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ! ! ! !

38 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:30:31pm

mccain needs a true conservative running mate. too many people are not happy w/ him and the libs and independents he's hoping for might not come thru for him.

39 chicagodudewhotrades  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:30:33pm

I still think 'Maverick' will pick Mike Steele as his veep. I don't see Shrill on his ticket.

40 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:30:40pm

re: #23 zombie

The question is:

Is O + H better or worse for the Dems than H + O ?

My opinion:

Hillary as pres and O as VP would enable the Dems to win the general election.

BUT...

O as pres and Hillary as VP is the worst of both worlds and will guarantee their defeat.

I know more than one liberal woman who has said they'd not vote for Senator Obama for Pres. no matter what - even with Senator Clinton as veep. They are angry.

If the Dems were TRYING to destroy themselves, they'd screw it up.

41 yochanan  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:30:45pm

re: #6 song_and_dance_man

I'd rather see Joe Lieberman run with McCain.

at least Sen. Joe Lieberman is a 'good American' would love to see him start a pro american centerist party.

i would like him to be the v.p. on John McCain's ticket but it isn't going to happen.

42 anotherindyfilmguy  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:30:52pm

re: #12 MES41067

If he makes her vp then he's nuttier than a squirrel turd.

At least that's been digested... such an action wouldn't even warrant being called halfbaked...

43 Globular Cluster  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:31:04pm

A worse combination would be Hillary-Obama. I think McCain could handle Hillary. If she runs with Obama, guaranteed it's a joint presidency with Obama scared pissless.

44 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:31:16pm
A horrible daydream keeps disturbing my reverie today, in which Hillary Clinton ends up being the running mate of ... John McCain. Discuss.

Bad Charles! Bad!

45 Dartmouth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:31:20pm

On a more serious note, it re: #15 WrathofG-d

I'll vote for Obama if someone can explain to me what "Change We Can Believe In" actually means.

On a more serious note, it means more taxes, welfare, dependency, and whole truckload of victories for America's enemies.

46 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:32:06pm

re: #32 EC Marm

No, that wont switch 'em.

The fact that the supers should be able to see that Obama couldn't win the big ticket states other than his home state of Illinois should have been a warning that he simply can't win those traditionally blue states.

He's relying on changing the map around, and there's no reason to believe that will happen.

It will be interesting to see who both parties choose as running mates. Watch for the geographical/demographic picks, and not necessarily those that are on the tip of the tongue.

47 Plato  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:32:10pm

I've been a neo-con since 2001. I've given often and lately to John McCain.

But there's a goofy Democrat inside me that smiles when I think about Bill Clinton.

48 right_wing2  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:32:10pm

If McCain (or the Obamessiah) picked the Hildabeast as his running mate, I'd give them 10 months before something mysteriously happened to them that they'd have to leave office.

49 Globular Cluster  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:32:18pm

re: #41 yochanan

at least Sen. Joe Lieberman is a 'good American' would love to see him start a pro american centerist party.

i would like him to be the v.p. on John McCain's ticket but it isn't going to happen.

Joe would be a bad choice because it would be two old men vs. the young guy.

50 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:32:55pm

God help America

51 Kostya Lotz  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:32:57pm

Let's see...
John BilHill?

Yikes!

52 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:33:35pm

re: #41 yochanan

Lieberman is pushing the asinine global warming bill through the Senate and it would be nothing more than a tax and spend boondoggle that will strangle the economy without changing emissions one iota.

That he is strong on Israel and the WoT shouldn't blind you to the fact that he's still a liberal at heart and caucuses with the Democrats most of the time.

53 Maximu§  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:33:53pm

Change


Change is not always a good thing.

54 livefreeor die  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:34:21pm

re: #48 right_wing2

If McCain (or the Obamessiah) picked the Hildabeast as his running mate, I'd give them 10 months before something mysteriously happened to them that they'd have to leave office.

...more than likely in a body bag.

55 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:34:23pm

re: #37 zombie

NOOOOOOOOOOO! ! ! ! ! !

If that happens I'll have to move to...

...move to...

....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ! ! ! !

Lol.

The king's armspan/thumb measurements were good enough for my mom.
The king's armspan/thumb measurements are good enough for me.

I even have a yardstick that is a yard on both sides. :D

56 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:34:24pm

re: #53 Maximu§

Change


Change is not always a good thing.



Now that is something I can beleive in!

57 Globular Cluster  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:34:29pm

re: #23 zombie

The question is:

Is O + H better or worse for the Dems than H + O ?

My opinion:

Hillary as pres and O as VP would enable the Dems to win the general election.

BUT...

O as pres and Hillary as VP is the worst of both worlds and will guarantee their defeat.

O as pres and Hillary as VP makes them almost unbeatable, methinks. Women who are outraged over Hillary's treatment would be placated, instead of voting for McCain in protest.

58 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:34:42pm
59 LeftJustAintRight  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:35:09pm

re: #26 song_and_dance_man

strong in the war on terror and it would piss off the Muslims to boot.


The statement of the day

60 jcm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:35:10pm

NASA Distorted Global-Warming Studies

WASHINGTON — NASA's press office "marginalized or mischaracterized" studies on global warming between 2004 and 2006, the agency's own internal watchdog concluded.

In a report released Monday, NASA's inspector general office called it "inappropriate political interference" by political appointees in the press office.

And both candidates want to make major policy decisions based on CARP!

61 EC Marm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:35:12pm

re: #46 lawhawk

No, that wont switch 'em.


I trust your opinion. In that case, I would imagine the Hillary supporters would enact revenge in November by voting for McCain. It's a lose-lose for Obama. I'm not sure he realizes that yet.

62 hermeneutics  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:35:48pm

Hi guys. I almost killed myself an hour ago -- careening down a ski slope on my mountain bike with no helmut. Stupid me. I'm still shaking.

So what are we talking about?

Wasn't today incredible? She concedes ... she doesn't concede. She's veep ... she's not veep. So much happened.

63 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:35:54pm

Can we have a new thread. I am getting a headache thinking about it.

64 Maximu§  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:36:06pm

re: #47 Plato

But there's a goofy Democrat inside me that smiles when I think about Bill Clinton.

Thats called your Inner Child....the part of us that never wants to grow up.

65 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:36:09pm

re: #36 Tigger2005

I'm stunned by the reation I see to Obama from some people I other wise admire & respect. The man is so obviously A) a hard leftist, B) a liar and C) and empty suit... I can't understand how some people can't see that.

But then I remember ALL politics is psychological. No rational argument will ever convince somebody for or against a political candidate. You "friend" is emotionally committed to Obama. Only an even more powerful emotional reaction will open his eyes. Unfortunately, John McCain is not going to deliver that for the true believers. Our only hope is that he can convince enough of the undecided to win the election.

66 Wily  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:36:22pm

If McCain picking Hillary is the only way to keep Obama out of the White House, then pick away--until it bleeds.

But it will never happen. Hillary wants to run again someday, and serving a republican as VP would make her lose her democrat street cred.

67 livefreeor die  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:36:31pm

re: #62 hermeneutics

Hi guys. I almost killed myself an hour ago -- careening down a ski slope on my mountain bike with no helmut. Stupid me. I'm still shaking.

So what are we talking about?

Wasn't today incredible? She concedes ... she doesn't concede. She's veep ... she's not veep. So much happened.

...or didn't happen!

Glad you're okay.

68 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:36:34pm

you can take the politician out of Chicago, but you can't take the Chicago out of the politician.

Obama's fitting running mate would be a dead guy. Then again, he has the dead vote wrapped up.

69 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:36:40pm

re: #49 Globular Cluster
re: #41 yochanan

at least Sen. Joe Lieberman is a 'good American' would love to see him start a pro american centerist party.

i would like him to be the v.p. on John McCain's ticket but it isn't going to happen.

Joe would be a bad choice because it would be two old men vs. the young guy.

Uh, Senator Lieberman is a Liberal. Just felt that should be mentioned. Sorry to interrupt.

70 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:36:45pm

re: #36 Tigger2005

Obama's views are contrary to reality. Period.

71 Globular Cluster  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:37:01pm

re: #66 Wily

If McCain picking Hillary is the only way to keep Obama out of the White House, then pick away--until it bleeds.

I think it would actually be a good tactical choice.

72 right_wing2  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:37:11pm

An Obama presidency would turn American into a true kakistocracy

73 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:37:13pm

My God. Even silky pony would have been a better candidate, and I cannot stand him.

74 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:37:13pm

Charles, please don't use the words "joint" and "Bill" in the same sentence.

75 hermeneutics  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:37:23pm

re: #67 livefreeor die

Thank you. I'm just too old for these childish acts.

76 TheMatrix31  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:37:25pm

Jindal is introducing McCain....now THAT would be nice.

77 LeftJustAintRight  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:37:26pm

re: #70 The Other Les

Obama's views are contrary to reality. Period.

Rotating Title !

78 Sizzlack  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:37:41pm

I really hope Hillary runs as an Indy. That would totally F the Dems.

79 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:37:48pm

My Obamanation:

President Obama
Vice Clinton

Secretary of State McCain
Secretary of Defense Rosie O'Donnell
SCOTUS Bubba
etc

80 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:38:34pm

re: #45 Dartmouth

On a more serious note, it

On a more serious note, it means more taxes, welfare, dependency, and whole truckload of victories for America's enemies.

Punitive taxation of anyone living in a manner that is better than a caveman.

81 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:38:38pm
82 yochanan  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:38:42pm

re: #49 Globular Cluster

Joe would be a bad choice because it would be two old men vs. the young guy.

well i am a older guy (bald white haired) and i don't trust whippersnappers.

83 right_wing2  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:38:43pm

re: #54 livefreeor die

That's a possibility, too.

84 LeftJustAintRight  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:38:44pm

Obama / Carter 08 !

85 mikeinmd  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:38:46pm

re: #39 chicagodudewhotrades

I still think 'Maverick' will pick Mike Steele as his veep. I don't see Shrill on his ticket.

I voted for Steele. Would do it again. He's got a terrific story. He never bought the age old victimhood line, thus he's considered a sellout. It's the black communities loss.

86 JustMyView  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:38:52pm

McCain speaking right now from Louisiana on MSNBC.

87 JeremyR  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:38:57pm

re: #15 WrathofG-d

I'll vote for Obama if someone can explain to me what "Change We Can Believe In" actually means.

Its really quite simple, you see, when he gets done taxing the priviledged few (us) all the average person will have left is change. and with that our economy will tank and you will be believing that your pennies will be your last.

88 Globular Cluster  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:38:58pm

re: #69 The Shadow Do

re: #41 yochanan

Uh, Senator Lieberman is a Liberal. Just felt that should be mentioned. Sorry to interrupt.

Old school liberal. Strong military, pro-Iraq and troops, pro-Israel. He is also an Orthodox Jew, which makes him conservative in many respects by that simple virtue (faith, tradition, etc.).

89 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:39:13pm

re: #78 Sizzlack

I really hope Hillary runs as an Indy. That would totally F the Dems.

I don't see that happening.

90 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:39:21pm
91 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:39:27pm

re: #86 JustMyView

McCain speaking right now from Louisiana on MSNBC.

ON FOX

92 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:39:27pm

re: #63 Nevergiveup

Can we have a new thread. I am getting a headache thinking about it.

me too.

93 Shaky Louie  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:39:42pm

re: #5 Carridine

Gobama!

Pertinent!


Excellent!

94 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:39:53pm

Obama and Clinton futures on Rasmussen markets jumped all over the place today. Made some virtual money.

95 Globular Cluster  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:40:04pm

re: #82 yochanan

well i am a older guy (bald white haired) and i don't trust whippersnappers.

Yeah, but the whippersnappers might be turned off by some old crotchety codgers.

96 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:40:25pm

re: #82 yochanan

well i am a older guy (bald white haired) and i don't trust whippersnappers.

NO WHIPPERSNAPPERS! NO WHIPPERSNAPPERS! NO WHIPPERSNAPPERS! NO WHIPPERSNAPPERS! NO WHIPPERSNAPPERS! NO WHIPPERSNAPPERS!

97 mean Gene  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:40:26pm

re: #15 WrathofG-d

I'll vote for Obama if someone can explain to me what "Change We Can Believe In" actually means.


[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]

He's the best at explaining it I have found.

98 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:40:46pm

Hewitt was talking to Mike Allen of The Politico this afternoon, about Dick Gephardt being Obama's veep choice.

99 yochanan  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:40:51pm

re: #69 The Shadow Do

re: #41 yochanan


Uh, Senator Lieberman is a Liberal. Just felt that should be mentioned. Sorry to interrupt.

he might be a 'old school' liberal like scoop jackson not a socialist like obama

100 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:41:15pm

re: #74 Ward Cleaver

Charles, please don't use the words "joint" and "Bill" in the same sentence.

Inhale!

101 jayzee  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:41:22pm

It may sound a little paranoid of me but I gotta say almost anything is better than Obama. I think the guy is real real real bad, evil almost. If it was a McCain/Clinton ticket that beat him I really wouldn't care. That being said, I don't think he'll take Clinton, that's just a (bad) dream. BUT I do think he'll go more center than right on his choice. If Clinton would've won the nomination, he'd have gone conservative.

102 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:41:28pm

re: #64 Maximu�

But there's a goofy Democrat inside me that smiles when I think about Bill Clinton.

Thats called your Inner Child....the part of us that never wants to grow up.

re: #99 yochanan

You mean it's the part that put up the playboy bunnie logo as an icon?

103 right_wing2  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:41:31pm

re: #84 LeftJustAintRight

Isn't that redundant?

104 LeftJustAintRight  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:41:37pm

re: #100 The Other Les

Inhale!

Drink !

105 mean Gene  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:41:38pm

OOPS!
[Link: video.google.com...]

Wrong link!
This is the best at explaining Obama.

106 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:41:46pm

re: #63 Nevergiveup

Can we have a new thread. I am getting a headache thinking about it.

Something light, like a car swarm thread.

107 chicagodudewhotrades  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:41:54pm

re: #94 Catttt

I'm registered on that trading site too. I should see where my positions stand.

108 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:42:00pm

McCain speaking in New Orleans. Praising Hillary

he plans to reform everything - disaster relief, military and intelligence services.

109 anotherindyfilmguy  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:42:04pm

A few trivial points the MSM keeps forgetting to mention...
The stupordelegates are not "committed" (though, in a different sense perhaps they should be) until they are actually cast at the convention. just like the rest of the delegates...
Oh... and the state delegates can also be changed at the convention as well... (this is part of why the swimmer went all the way in his losing bid vs Carter)
Without the stupordelegates they are only 124 points between them, less than that* if the DNC's ethics committee (oxymoron perhaps, but it's what they call it) overturns the ruling and adds in all of Florida/Michigan without giving Obamasama "extra" delegates and taking away those he did not earn...
Although I'm not impressed at all with him, he is at least smart enough to know his heartbeat should not be between the Clintons and her sitting in the Presidency... If he's not that smart and offers her second place we'll have either McCain or another Clinton as POTUS... If he is that smart and offers VP to someone else then it'll be a delegate fight at the convention and quite interesting to see...

*if not a lead change actually...

110 joecitizen  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:42:18pm

re: #47 Plato

I've been a neo-con since 2001. I've given often and lately to John McCain.

But there's a goofy Democrat inside me that smiles when I think about Bill Clinton.

you sure that's not just gas?

111 hermeneutics  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:42:31pm

re: #65 Kenneth

... ALL politics is psychological. No rational argument will ever convince somebody for or against a political candidate. You "friend" is emotionally committed to Obama. Only an even more powerful emotional reaction will open his eyes. Unfortunately, John McCain is not going to deliver that for the true believers. Our only hope is that he can convince enough of the undecided to win the election.

Good point. I tend to think people respond to reasoned argument, but that's not the case, is it? People intuit at a gut-level. I can see why Obama attracts leftists -- he's smooth and obfuscating, like them.

Who would McCain attract?
Vets and their families and other patriotic people.
Retired Americans (?) but the AARP always tries to get retirees to vote D.
Republican base
?

112 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:42:34pm

re: #99 yochanan

People should understand the difference between "liberalism" and "socialism", but they are frequently confused.

113 zombie  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:42:46pm

re: #34 lawhawk

And now for something of real substance. I think I'm ready to roll out my revised blog. 3 columns... a few new toys, though nothing in comparison to what Charles has going. Just needed to revamp it with more real estate space available for information.

Suggestions:

The header is pale writing on a pale background -- too hard to read.

Same thing applies to the sidebar somewhat, but to a lesser degree.

You need a greater contract between the text and the background in those places.

114 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:42:49pm

Government often makes matters worse

115 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:42:52pm

re: #88 Globular Cluster

Old school liberal. Strong military, pro-Iraq and troops, pro-Israel. He is also an Orthodox Jew, which makes him conservative in many respects by that simple virtue (faith, tradition, etc.).

Abortion. Taxes. Expansion of Government. Etc. How does that abortion thing wash with Orthodoxy? Serious question, I don't know but it does seem inconsistent on the face of it.

116 MES41067  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:43:15pm

re: #42 anotherindyfilmguy

At least that's been digested... such an action wouldn't even warrant being called halfbaked...

lol

117 LeftJustAintRight  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:43:21pm

re: #103 right_wing2

Isn't that redundant?

It is the Democrats
Redundant and oxymoron are One in the same

118 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:43:38pm

re: #98 Ward Cleaver

Hewitt was talking to Mike Allen of The Politico this afternoon, about Dick Gephardt being Obama's veep choice.

Is he still breathing?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Guess so.

He's as white as they come, ain't he?

Also struck me as dumber than your average congresscritter.

119 akak  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:43:45pm

Steele or Sarah Palin for Veep

120 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:43:48pm

McCain : REthink - reform, reinvent

121 mikeinmd  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:43:58pm

re: #94 Catttt

Obama and Clinton futures on Rasmussen markets jumped all over the place today. Made some virtual money.

Now you can pay your doubled virtual capital gains tax.
a reality under the Messiah.

122 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:44:04pm
123 tradewind  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:44:05pm

Meanwhile in Iran today, Obama's 'sure I'd meet with him' first penciled-in appointment announces yet again that' Israel is about to disappear like the slime it is '[sic].
McCain had better grab onto this and not screw it up.......

124 LeonidasOfSparta  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:44:29pm

Charles, I think you might be right. I have thought all along that if McCain had a savvy, capable, tough, no nonsense woman runningmate, he'd be tough to beat.

However I have been universally, verbally, flogged for insinuating that Rice might be that woman (personally I don't like her stand on MANY MANY issues, especially Israel, but I have problems with McCain, too.)

However, Hillary might be a possibility. That said, I am not a proponent of Hillary in the least. Before any of you slap me, re-read those 3 words "in the least."

Several posters said that something mysterious would exit the POTUS if Hillary were VP (i.e. a bodybag). That wouldn't surprise me either.

But if we get two old guys up there campaigning as Pres/VP, we are SUNK.

125 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:44:36pm

I think it was important for Mitt to move to California, so he's not seen as much as a North easterner

126 jcm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:44:36pm

HRC is from the same political school as BHO.....
Alinsky
She more subtle than BHO, she got a few years of political experience that tells her to tone it down. He's fresh of the activist program and thinks CHANGE! NOW is palatable.

127 livefreeor die  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:44:44pm

re: #88 Globular Cluster

Old school liberal. Strong military, pro-Iraq and troops, pro-Israel. He is also an Orthodox Jew, which makes him conservative in many respects by that simple virtue (faith, tradition, etc.).

He was the only Democrat who got up and criticized Clinton for his conduct with Monica Lewinsky. His speech was very impressive and boiled down to, "This is just plain wrong and we shouldn't be making excuses for it."

128 Globular Cluster  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:44:51pm

re: #115 The Shadow Do

Abortion. Taxes. Expansion of Government. Etc. How does that abortion thing wash with Orthodoxy? Serious question, I don't know but it does seem inconsistent on the face of it.


[Link: www.slate.com...]

129 Killian Bundy  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:45:04pm
Hillary Clinton ends up being the running mate of ... John McCain

That ticket would almost surely win.

/and completely destroy the Republican Party in the process

130 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:45:06pm

re: #111 hermeneutics

Presidential election are won by the candidate who captures the middle of the political spectrum without totaly alienating his base. McCain has a big challenge there. Obama has his base, the only question is how much of the middle he can take.

131 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:45:06pm

re: #107 chicagodudewhotrades

I'm registered on that trading site too. I should see where my positions stand.

I'm going to take a bath on my holding on brokered Dem convention, I have a feeling. I still think chaos will reign, though.

132 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:45:18pm

re: #118 itellu3times

Is he still breathing?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Guess so.

He's as white as they come, ain't he?

Also struck me as dumber than your average congresscritter.

But is he dumber than the B.O.?

133 tradewind  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:45:45pm

re: #118 itellu3times

Howdy Doody and Baby Dumbo on the same ticket?
What a cartoonists' dream team.....

134 jayzee  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:45:46pm

re: #115 The Shadow Do

Abortion. Taxes. Expansion of Government. Etc. How does that abortion thing wash with Orthodoxy? Serious question, I don't know but it does seem inconsistent on the face of it.

The issue is Orthodox Judaism does not prohibit abortion entirely. There are rare instances where it is permitted (to save a mother's life etc) but not as birth control. So, the banning of abortion across the board is not ideal.

135 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:45:58pm

re: #124 LeonidasOfSparta

Charles, I think you might be right. I have thought all along that if McCain had a savvy, capable, tough, no nonsense woman runningmate, he'd be tough to beat.

Fooey.

Hilda missed her chance, she could have jumped parties in January and been the Republican presidential nominee, with McCain vice. Mebbe.

136 joecitizen  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:46:03pm

c'mon Johnno...quit kickin' the gubmint and kick your opponent..jeesh!

137 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:46:21pm

McCain: I have a few years on my opponent - so I'm surprised a young man has bought into so many failed programs

138 ggt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:46:45pm

Good Evening Lizards! It was very, very rainy in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today. I know, I was driving it in it.

So. --any news of the candidate wars?

How are you -all? I'm not here for long, I snuck in while child is eating.

139 jcm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:46:45pm

re: #111 hermeneutics

Good point. I tend to think people respond to reasoned argument, but that's not the case, is it? People intuit at a gut-level. I can see why Obama attracts leftists -- he's smooth and obfuscating, like them.

Who would McCain attract?
Vets and their families and other patriotic people.
Retired Americans (?) but the AARP always tries to get retirees to vote D.
Republican base
?

I had a GW argument with a Gorebot today. He out and out said he didn't care what the science said, oil was evil and we needed to be rid of it. He was even less receptive to my questions on how a thing can be evil.

140 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:46:48pm

"I'm an older man, but I'm suprised that a young man has bought into so many old failed ideas" - McCain

141 mean Gene  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:46:50pm

Gosh, it's nice to hear McCain on an election primary night.
He is still racking up delegates, too, right?

142 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:47:10pm

re: #121 mikeinmd

Now you can pay your doubled virtual capital gains tax.
a reality under the Messiah.

Noooooooooooo!

143 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:47:11pm

re: #132 The Other Les

But is he dumber than the B.O.?

Intelligence in the cause of socialism is no virtue.

144 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:47:12pm
145 Sizzlack  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:47:13pm

I like this speech : )

146 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:47:18pm

Throwing Bush under the bus

147 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:47:27pm

re: #137 DistantThunder

McCain: I have a few years on my opponent - so I'm surprised a young man has bought into so many failed programs

So far that is his best line.

148 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:47:56pm

re: #133 tradewind

Howdy Doody and Baby Dumbo on the same ticket?
What a cartoonists' dream team.....

Ebony and Ivory, ...

149 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:00pm

Woohoo McCain takes jabs at Obama. The gloves are off.

150 Charles  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:00pm

McCain is landing some body blows in this speech.

151 Cowardkerry  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:03pm

Rachel Rays secret past (snicker)
[Link: www.cameltap.com...]

152 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:09pm

....before my own interests...hmmmm

153 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:22pm
154 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:34pm

re: #134 jayzee

The issue is Orthodox Judaism does not prohibit abortion entirely. There are rare instances where it is permitted (to save a mother's life etc) but not as birth control. So, the banning of abortion across the board is not ideal.

How did Lieberman come down on partial birth abortion?

155 jaunte  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:36pm

re: #139 jcm

I had a GW argument with a Gorebot today. He out and out said he didn't care what the science said, oil was evil and we needed to be rid of it. He was even less receptive to my questions on how a thing can be evil.

It's always fun to point out that he, indeed, can stop using.
But that will mean Change.

156 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:39pm

re: #138 ggt

Good Evening Lizards! It was very, very rainy in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today. I know, I was driving it in it.

So. --any news of the candidate wars?

How are you -all? I'm not here for long, I snuck in while child is eating.

I had a outdoor temp job canceled today because of the rain up in Minnesota.

157 mean Gene  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:43pm

"Americans didn't get to know me yesterday," John McCain.
I like that one, too.

158 Sizzlack  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:46pm

It's nice to finally hear him talk about some of this stuff...I've been waiting a while to hear it.

159 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:50pm

McCain is a professional warrior - Obama is a piker by comparison.

160 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:48:54pm

re: #113 zombie

Thanks. I've been tweaking 'em some, but still have a way to go. I think that's similar to my old color scheme, but something is still missing, and I have to clean up the top of the page some.

161 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:49:09pm

re: #139 jcm


Oil is evil? But I thought secular humanists don't believe in such primative ideas as "good" and "evil"...

162 hermeneutics  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:49:13pm

re: #122 song_and_dance_man

I went kamikaze down the slopes of Brians Head ski slope in Utah about 6 years ago and had a helmet. The thing saved me and I still have the helmet with two large gashes that would have been in my head. I still broke a bunch of ribs and busted my leaf shoulder. It still hurts to this day.

Ouch, oooo. What a horrible story. Broken ribs remind you of their existence with every breath. And your shoulder too? SnD -- you are lucky to be alive.

(I'll be out riding Brian's Head the last week of June and will take your story to heart.)

163 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:49:20pm

re: #143 itellu3times

Intelligence in the cause of socialism is no virtue.

That's a good one! Can I quote you?

164 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:49:24pm

re: #7 mink

I'd take McCain/Clinton over Obama/Anybody any day of the week and twice on Sundays - but that's just me.

So would I. McCain/Anybody over Obama/Anybody, really. But as one lizard put it, I would vote for a potted plant before I'd vote for Hussein

165 LeonidasOfSparta  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:49:43pm

re: #133 tradewind

LMAO!

166 joecitizen  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:49:45pm

re: #122 song_and_dance_man

I went kamikaze down the slopes of Brians Head ski slope in Utah about 6 years ago and had a helmet. The thing saved me and I still have the helmet with two large gashes that would have been in my head. I still broke a bunch of ribs and busted my leaf shoulder. It still hurts to this day.

yeah..I got trouble with my leaf shoulder too..heh

167 Peter Griffin  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:49:48pm

did you see the wink after the 'we are just now getting to know senator obama'? classic.

168 yochanan  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:49:57pm

re: #115 The Shadow Do

Abortion. Taxes. Expansion of Government. Etc. How does that abortion thing wash with Orthodoxy? Serious question, I don't know but it does seem inconsistent on the face of it.

Ortho jewish opinion on abortion
no on abortion as birth control
yes if the woman's life is threatened or if she was raped
and if the woman's life is in real danger SHE HAS TO HAVE THE ABORTION. as the life of the woman comes before the fetus.

169 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:49:58pm

McCain laying some lumber on the annointed one on his grand day of triumph.

170 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:50:05pm

5 years in a prison - maybe he deserves this opportunity - but do we deserve him?

171 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:50:07pm

re: #98 Ward Cleaver

Hewitt was talking to Mike Allen of The Politico this afternoon, about Dick Gephardt being Obama's veep choice.

Surely you jest.

172 CoolShades  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:50:19pm

An Obama/Hillary ticket would be the best case scenario for the Dems to win. Thanks to Hillary's rather nasty campaign, neither of them can win alone.
We should be scared.
Who does McCain pick for VP if this couple does run together? Rice?

173 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:50:29pm

McCain must hammer home the point he is not Bush.

174 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:50:37pm

re: #60 jcm

NASA Distorted Global-Warming Studies


And both candidates want to make major policy decisions based on CARP!

C'mon jcm, not even Fox News is immune to the koolaid that is global warming. Go to [Link: www.earthstations.org...] to find out the real truth about what's being foisted on us right now. That's nothing but a hack article.

175 Charles  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:50:38pm

lawhawk: looks great! Change!

I'd agree with zombie on the text/background colors -- I always find light text on dark background hard to read too.

176 livefreeor die  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:50:45pm

re: #164 SpartanWoman

So would I. McCain/Anybody over Obama/Anybody, really. But as one lizard put it, I would vote for a potted plant before I'd vote for Hussein

McCain/Potted Plant 08!

177 chicagodudewhotrades  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:50:51pm

re: #131 Catttt

My position on that is down nearly $400

178 hermeneutics  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:51:09pm

re: #130 Kenneth

We are his base. We have no where to go, Kenneth. I suppose some may defect to Barr, but not many. Others may stay home. But his centrist appeal is real and these are the people he needs.

Right?

179 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:51:19pm

re: #173 snowcrash

McCain must hammer home the point he is not Bush.

He is doing a pretty good job at that right now and without being nasty to President Bush to boot.

180 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:51:25pm

McCain!

181 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:51:31pm

oooohhhhh ripping into Obama we would have not had the progress in Iraq if we'd followed Obama

182 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:51:46pm

re: #159 DistantThunder

McCain is a professional warrior - Obama is a piker by comparison.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say the B.O. is a spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum.

183 rusty_armor  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:51:57pm

OMG

Got here too late to join the thread ...

Think I'll take a case of Twinkies and head to the storm shelter until the election blows over.

I am so depressed ...

184 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:52:02pm

re: #168 yochanan

Ortho jewish opinion on abortion
no on abortion as birth control
yes if the woman's life is threatened or if she was raped
and if the woman's life is in real danger SHE HAS TO HAVE THE ABORTION. as the life of the woman comes before the fetus.

Thank you, that is what I thought.

185 Tigger2005  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:52:15pm

re: #65 Kenneth

I'll admit...I was emotionally committed to Ronald Reagan. And hey, he was charismatic too. But he had MEAT to him. Substance. A strong belief in fundamental American values and principles. And an iron will.

Had I discovered things about Reagan even remotely like Obama's negatives, I would have dropped him like a hot coal, no matter how emotionally invested in him I was. How could I live with myself if I helped elect, say, an unrepentant racist to office?

186 TheMatrix31  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:52:27pm

Earlier, someone mentioned Governor Sarah Palin out of Alaska as a potential running mate for McCain. After looking at her wikipedia, I am very intruigued. Can someone shed some more light on her?

187 funky chicken  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:52:37pm

re: #15 WrathofG-d

I'll vote for Obama if someone can explain to me what "Change We Can Believe In" actually means.

Check out Gateway Pundit, where the founder of the Electronic Intifada discusses his multi-year friendship with Obama. I believe Barry was totally on board with the pali cause until he ran for the US Senate. Then, presto-changeo he adopted a more nuanced view of the Israel-Pali dispute.

That's some change you can, er, believe in.

188 Killian Bundy  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:52:42pm

At least McCain has a sense of humor and uses some class and wit when he takes shots at Obama.

/Obama just attacks like the arrogant snot he is

189 jaunte  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:02pm

extended McCain speech excerpts:
[Link: marcambinder.theatlantic.com...]

190 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:03pm
191 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:03pm

"I hate war" - everyone does except the despots

192 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:07pm

re: #186 TheMatrix31

Earlier, someone mentioned Governor Sarah Palin out of Alaska as a potential running mate for McCain. After looking at her wikipedia, I am very intruigued. Can someone shed some more light on her?

One of her son's is serving.

193 RedsoxNation  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:27pm

I thought the same thing this afternoon when I was reading McCain's comments on Hillary.

194 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:30pm
A horrible daydream keeps disturbing my reverie today, in which Hillary Clinton ends up being the running mate of ... John McCain. Discuss.

Not a chance.

195 zombie  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:39pm

re: #175 Charles

lawhawk: looks great! Change!

I'd agree with zombie on the text/background colors -- I always find light text on dark background hard to read too.

I agree on that point, but didn't want to pile on.

Break it gently.

I woulda made a good doctor.

196 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:43pm
197 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:57pm

re: #188 Killian Bundy

At least McCain has a sense of humor and uses some class and wit when he takes shots at Obama.

/Obama just attacks like the arrogant snot he is

Old school gentlemen are real men.

198 jcm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:54:01pm

re: #161 Kenneth

Oil is evil? But I thought secular humanists don't believe in such primative ideas as "good" and "evil"...

The other party to the conversation was a Paulbot.

His sentiment was he hoped McCain stroked out before the Convention and RonPaul would sweep into nomination.

His take on GW was BIG OIL was ripping us off.

199 funky chicken  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:54:05pm
200 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:54:06pm

Hillary's as good as out and he knows it, he's going after Obama now.

201 LeonidasOfSparta  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:54:25pm

re: #135 itellu3times

yes. (and thanks for not smacking me for my post.)

I am so worried,and justifiably so, that Hussein will get into office, that like SpartanWoman said, I would vote for McCain/Anybody just to defeat that empty suit.

202 TheMatrix31  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:54:38pm

re: #192 Nevergiveup

One of her son's is serving.

So suffice it to say she's committed to the security of our nation? What about things like immigration, etc?

203 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:54:47pm

re: #183 rusty_armor

If we all do that we'll have President B HUssein Obama! No Thank YOU.

McCain is great in '08.

Don't be insane
Vote McCain
Before you end up with Hussein
who'll lead the nation
DOWN THE DRAIN

204 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:54:49pm

O no, breaking with all the energy policies - DRILL, DRILL

205 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:54:52pm

Dismantling the change we can believe in meme. He has been saving this one up. Let the contest begin!

206 joecitizen  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:54:54pm

re: #196 song_and_dance_man

I know, I don't like to preview.


preview is fer wussies...

207 jayzee  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:55:29pm

re: #154 The Shadow Do

How did Lieberman come down on partial birth abortion?

I don't think well. But again, religiously there is a divergence of opinion. It isn't clear cut.
This just shows part of the differing of opinion.
[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]

208 GregInSeattle  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:55:33pm

"White greed runs a world in need!"

Blame Whitey!

209 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:56:02pm

Now he's into nutty territory - climate change - opposing oil - help us....

210 hermeneutics  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:56:05pm

re: #185 Tigger2005

I'll admit...I was emotionally committed to Ronald Reagan. And hey, he was charismatic too. But he had MEAT to him. Substance. A strong belief in fundamental American values and principles. And an iron will.

Had I discovered things about Reagan even remotely like Obama's negatives, I would have dropped him like a hot coal, no matter how emotionally invested in him I was. How could I live with myself if I helped elect, say, an unrepentant racist to office?

The difference is that people LIKE what we perceive as Obama's negatives. People LIKE the fact that he is a newbie. THey LIKE his racialism. They LIKE his international appeasment and pacificm.

So when they look at Obama, they see someone admirable. Yes, I know it is hard to believe.

Pointing out his positions may help with those on the fence but the true believers will continue to worship at Obama's feet.

211 GregInSeattle  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:56:15pm

Don't let the USA become an Obama-nation!

212 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:56:18pm

re: #202 TheMatrix31

So suffice it to say she's committed to the security of our nation? What about things like immigration, etc?

She is pro life. Not sure about immigration. Alaska is kinda far away from our southern border?

213 yochanan  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:56:28pm

re: #151 Cowardkerry

Rachel Rays secret past (snicker)
[Link: www.cameltap.com...]

[Link: www.cameltap.com...] beyond funny and not p.c. or lizardette safe lol

i know me bad

214 hermeneutics  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:56:41pm

re: #197 The Other Les

Old school gentlemen are real men.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

215 Charles  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:56:57pm

New front page posts should now show up in the Spy too...

I'm going to test it with another politics thread...

216 joecitizen  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:03pm

I wish the crowd here was a little better...

217 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:04pm

I like it when he throws the jab, and then smiles and winks.

218 jcm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:05pm

re: #174 really grumpy big dog johnson

C'mon jcm, not even Fox News is immune to the koolaid that is global warming. Go to [Link: www.earthstations.org...] to find out the real truth about what's being foisted on us right now. That's nothing but a hack article.

Bad link.

I know, I posted a link a month or so ago about NASA cooking the books on data.

219 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:14pm

re: #191 DistantThunder

"I hate war" - everyone does except the despots

I hate peace activists. I get noticed for the fact that I hate peace activists. I've been called Satanic by a Socialist who was claiming to be a Christian because I hate peace activists.

And why do I hate peace activists?

Because peace without freedom is an abomination.

220 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:16pm

She just had a down syndrome baby - Gov. of Alaska

221 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:20pm

McCain's foreign policy and governmental experience is practically UNPRECEDENTED in American history.

Obama is a lightweight in every category.

222 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:22pm

re: #185 Tigger2005

Absolutely, and that's why I cannot dismiss MichelleO with the Farrakhan woman or Hussein with Wright, with Pfleger, with Rezko, with Ayres.

I cannot imagine the circumstance where I would have to make nice and take photos with any of these people. Nope. No excuse.

223 mikeinmd  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:30pm

Vote Obama, Get Michelle.

Somebody sell me a bumper sticker.

224 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:34pm

Senator McCain is going to munch Senator Obama big time. IMHO.

225 J.S.  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:41pm

Another horrible thought is that the choice of VP is what may determine who becomes Prez...(in other words, the determining factor will be choice of running mates...many potential voters attracted or repelled by virtue of the VP spot) So, the VP choice is crucial for McCain (since everyone's thinking age/replacement)...etc.

226 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:57:42pm

"Obama doesn't trust us to make decisions for ourselves."

Hammer that point, McCain.

227 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:58:06pm

re: #207 jayzee

thanks jayzee

228 rusty_armor  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:58:12pm

re: #203 SpartanWoman

If we all do that we'll have President B HUssein Obama! No Thank YOU.

Oh ... that makes me feel so much better. So it is the choice for the little weevil, or the big weevil, now.

Personally, I don't think McCain will pick any better judges, nor do I think that he is concerned about a Democratic Party legislator.

Just another wingtip Republican IMHO ...

229 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:58:17pm

re: #177 chicagodudewhotrades

My position on that is down nearly $400

I went from 13th in my state to 89th. Sigh.

230 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:58:21pm

re: #186 TheMatrix31

Earlier, someone mentioned Governor Sarah Palin out of Alaska as a potential running mate for McCain. After looking at her wikipedia, I am very intruigued. Can someone shed some more light on her?

Easy enough. Here ya' go.

231 Killian Bundy  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:58:30pm

This is a pretty good speech.

/as opposed to just spouting vague platitudes for two hours and repeating the word "change" 839 times

232 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:58:33pm
233 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:58:36pm

re: #219 The Other Les

I hate peace activists. I get noticed for the fact that I hate peace activists. I've been called Satanic by a Socialist who was claiming to be a Christian because I hate peace activists.

And why do I hate peace activists?

Because peace without freedom is an abomination.

And peace activists are great enablers and multipliers of evil.

234 funky chicken  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:58:41pm

re: #140 The Shadow Do

"I'm an older man, but I'm suprised that a young man has bought into so many old failed ideas" - McCain

That's brilliant.

235 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:58:42pm

re: #208 GregInSeattle

"White greed runs a world in need!"

Blame Whitey!

The idiot that you are quoting is still mentally stuck int he Stone Age.

236 Cartman  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:06pm

re: #160 lawhawk

Thanks. I've been tweaking 'em some, but still have a way to go. I think that's similar to my old color scheme, but something is still missing, and I have to clean up the top of the page some.

Lawhawk, have you encountered any anomalies regarding color rendering in Windows Vista?

237 Charles  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:20pm

It works!

238 Sunlight  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:27pm

While we watch the three ring circus, the chaos builds.

What does Ahmadinejad mean by this? (I'm serious. I don't know what he means.)

According to the Telenews agency, he said Europeans are suffering from the "artificial regime" of Israel.

"Europeans have suffered the biggest damage from the Zionists and today the weight of this artificial regime, both political and economic, is on Europe's shoulders," he said.

From the article's talkbacks:

205. EXCUSE ME! MUSLIMS ARE TRYING TO DAMAGE EUROPE
Thanks to European Jews, the solid foundations built by them through hundreds of years of hard labour throughout the continent (and the rest of the world), their vision for a good future for their children and the rest of us, their innocent blood shed, ZIONISM HAS BLESSED EUROPE. Take it or leave it. I'm taking it!
Marlene - FRANCE (06/03/2008 20:40)

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

239 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:28pm

McCain is sounding good. Obama must be seething at this criticism of all his policies.

240 theheat  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:34pm

A friend and I were just talking a week or so ago about Hillary running as an indie and joining the McCain ticket. I think it would be win/win, except I think Hillary is too obligated and too loyal the Dem party to do it. That, and McCain will probably choose another old white guy as a running mate and, in the end, shit the bed completely.

If somebody pissed off Hillary I think she's nasty enough to go after their throat. Obama... he's going to roll over, piss himself, and apologize. Aside from whatever platforms they think they stand on, that's the biggest difference between the two. Hillary is no peach, but she's a whole lot better than Obama, even with Bill in tow.

And I think Hillary would give a fresher look to McCain's ticket. Anything old and blah, or some rabble-raising foot-in-mouth evangelist idiot like Huckabilly as a VP choice, and McCain's going down like the Titanic. He might as well pick Ron Paul.

Lieberman or indie Hillary. I can get behind either one as VP for McCain. In my dreams, anyway.

241 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:43pm

re: #216 joecitizen

I wish the crowd here was a little better...

I wish my back was a little better.

242 DistantThunder  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:46pm

Pride self reliance and identity

243 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:47pm

Have to redo the old bumpersticker:

Clinton Obama for ☭hange!

(Thanks for allowing Unicode entities, Charles!)

244 akak  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:50pm

Killian,
is Lehman gonna do a Bear Stearns on us?

245 Catttt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:59:59pm

Senator O reminds me of Chatty Cathy. Remember her? She spoke well but had a limited supply of statements. She wasn't good at off-the-cuff remarks.

246 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:00pm

So, Carter's coming out for Obama. No surprise there. He's been pushing
Obama for months, and Obama has returned the favor by pushing Carteresque failed policies in return.

247 ggt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:09pm

what did you -all think of the movie Dogs of War with Christopher Walken?

248 yochanan  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:13pm

re: #195 zombie

I agree on that point, but didn't want to pile on.

Break it gently.

I woulda made a good doctor.

there is a reason books are printed with black ink and use 'sarif' fonts
both are easier to read the white type with sans sarif font.

249 bcgirl  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:22pm

egads charles, mcCain/hildabrest? please let me digest that obamessia has actually managed to mezmoronize the masses of an america that i do not recgonize, i am blown away by the range of people i see with obama stickers, old , young, business man looking, stoner looking but to a one, they are ALL white, i guess since they are for him, then they are not racist, but I, no I am a racist because I am NOT for this liar and MUSLIM. yudk,, abc news is comming on,, i must go puke!

250 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:28pm

re: #192 Nevergiveup

One of her son's is serving.

One of her son's what is serving?

/nit-pick

251 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:28pm

CNN now projecting Obama has enough delegates to get nomination.

252 SpartanWoman  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:31pm

re: #239 snowcrash

McCain is sounding good. Obama must be seething at this criticism of all his policies.

Seething, huh?

253 TheMatrix31  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:39pm

re: #230 LeePro

Easy enough. Here ya' go.

Thanks a lot, bud. I could have done a Google search but figured there may be some specific sites you knowledgable guys might have on record.

254 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:44pm

re: #224 Catttt

Senator McCain is going to munch Senator Obama big time. IMHO.

I think so too Catttt. His style leads me to think it will be a slow but inevitable momentum that he is likely to build in the coming months with Obama doing the slow fade in the polls.

255 funky chicken  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:48pm

re: #212 Nevergiveup

She is pro life. Not sure about immigration. Alaska is kinda far away from our southern border?

But she's not too sweet on polar bears. I like her.

256 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:00:59pm

re: #175 Charles

Thanks. I'll have to play with color combos.

257 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:01:01pm

re: #226 Occasional Reader

"Obama doesn't trust us to make decisions for ourselves."

Hammer that point, McCain.

True, but I think too abstract to make a good campaign point.

McCain must say what he wants government to DO, and only inferentially suggest that it not do other stuff.

Unfortunately, when it comes to campaign freedom is a weak hand, it sounds too much like inaction.

Anyway, as I keep saying, this election will turn on the economy, including oil prices, and secondarily on the war, and tertiarily (?) on character and race but-I-didn't-say-that and age but-you-didn't-say-that.

258 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:01:59pm

re: #220 DistantThunder

She just had a down syndrome baby - Gov. of Alaska

The idiots are going to go to town with that. Progressives used to believe in in Eugenics.

259 joecitizen  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:02:05pm

I also wish he wouldn't telegraph the laughs so obviously...smiles inappropriately at times..but,I nitpick...McCain/Bolton'08!

260 ggt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:02:35pm

re: #219 The Other Les

Peace without Freedom is slavery.

261 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:02:39pm

I just wish Jindal was not in favor of teaching intelligent design in schools. In most areas his vision is very close to my own.

However, since he disagrees with me on that point, he's clearly not my ideal vp candidate, so if McCain chooses him as his running mate - well, I'm just gonna have to sit this one out.

Anyone who believes that hasn't been paying attention.

262 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:02:52pm

re: #226 Occasional Reader

"Obama doesn't trust us to make decisions for ourselves."

Hammer that point, McCain.

Stone Age God Kings and those aspire to that position are funny that way.

263 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:03:13pm

re: #257 itellu3times


Unfortunately, when it comes to campaign freedom is a weak hand, it sounds too much like inaction.

I disagree - he just needs to make the case. Reagan did a great job reminding voters "it's YOUR money", and that the government was mostly supposed to leave them alone to lead their own lives.

264 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:03:18pm

re: #233 DistantThunder

And peace activists are great enablers and multipliers of evil.

That too.

265 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:04:04pm
One of us has a record of doing that, and one of us doesn't.


McCain just kicked Obama in the teeth.

266 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:04:08pm

re: #245 Catttt

Senator O reminds me of Chatty Cathy. Remember her? She spoke well but had a limited supply of statements. She wasn't good at off-the-cuff remarks.

Oh my. Chatty Obamy.

267 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:04:12pm

re: #239 snowcrash

McCain is sounding good. Obama must be seething at this criticism of all his policies.

Stone Age God Kings and those aspire to that position are funny that way.

268 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:04:34pm

re: #199 funky chicken

[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

McCain needs to jump on that.

269 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:04:52pm
270 chicagodudewhotrades  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:05:04pm

re: #247 ggt
The original Frederick Forsythe short story was better

271 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:05:09pm

re: #220 DistantThunder

She just had a down syndrome baby - Gov. of Alaska

What's your point?

272 funky chicken  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:05:20pm

re: #254 The Shadow Do

I think so too Catttt. His style leads me to think it will be a slow but inevitable momentum that he is likely to build in the coming months with Obama doing the slow fade in the polls.

I hope you are correct. I pray that you are correct. My husband is in the sandbox. McCain isn't going to put his life at the risk that a CiC Obama would. End of story.

273 loflyer  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:05:23pm

Evening all! Its Miller time(TM)!

Can you imagine the positive feedback between the hypothetical running mates of Obama and Clinton if they got elected? Socialized healthcare, Nationalised and downsized oil exploration! Open borders! Wihdrawl from Iraq yesterday, no funding Iraq! A new embassy in Iran! Better yet a new embassy in Palistine! Withdrawl the embassy in Tel Aviv! Withdrawl from Afghanistan, but invade Pakistan! With Pelosi, Reid and half the Republican senators cheering 'em on,
/This is bringing me down........

274 Gharqad  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:05:26pm

re: #251 Occasional Reader

CNN now projecting Obama has enough delegates to get nomination.

I'm projecting too, but it's actually more like projectile vomiting.

275 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:05:35pm
276 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:05:51pm

re: #239 snowcrash

McCain is sounding good. Obama must be seething at this criticism of all his policies.

He's dying for a Kool.

277 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:06:02pm

"I seek the office with the humility of a man whose country saved me"

278 ggt  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:06:10pm

re: #270 chicagodudewhotrades

thanks!

gotta go Lizards!

Have a great evening!

279 J.S.  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:06:18pm

re: #238 Sunlight

Ahmadinejad is just projecting again. Answer the following: "who created Syria?" Next: "who created Jordan?" Next: "who created Lebanon?" Next: "who created Iraq?" Think about it.

280 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:06:26pm

re: #223 mikeinmd

Vote Obama, Get Michelle.

Somebody sell me a bumper sticker.

I want to see Michelle and Hillary in the same room...

281 Intrepid  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:06:30pm

"I've always worked with different parties, but not with different countries".

"We are Americans over anything else".

He's slugging away at Obama. Game.Is.On.

Go John!

282 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:06:50pm
283 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:07:02pm

re: #247 ggt

what did you -all think of the movie Dogs of War with Christopher Walken?

The techobabble in the mission planning scene sucked and Tom Berenger was firing a Uzi from the shoulder with the stock folded.

284 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:07:11pm

re: #280 LeePro

I want to see Michelle and Hillary in the same room...

Self:
...or maybe NOT!

285 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:07:17pm

re: #272 funky chicken

I hope you are correct. I pray that you are correct. My husband is in the sandbox. McCain isn't going to put his life at the risk that a CiC Obama would. End of story.

Thank you and your husband Funky. Thank you. And you are right.

286 yehoshua  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:07:56pm

McCain has always impressed me as a man with lots of personal courage but no personal principles. If he thought having Hillary as a running mate would help him get elected, he would definitely choose her.
As someone has said, the choice in '08 is between disgusting (Obama/Clinton) and terrible (McCain).
At times like these, having a deep and abiding faith in God is the only way to keep from lapsing into utter despair.

287 Pastorius  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:08:12pm

Heh.

I've been predicting for months that Hilary would be McCain's running mate.

That would shore up two key constituencies he has to win.

1) Hilary voters who are disenchanted with Obama (a sizable number)

2) those who simply want change and what better way to signal change than to show that he really means it when he says he will "reach across the aisle."

288 Intrepid  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:09:24pm

re: #245 Catttt

Senator O reminds me of Chatty Cathy. Remember her? She spoke well but had a limited supply of statements. She wasn't good at off-the-cuff remarks.

She doesn't stand up too well if ya chop off all her hair, put her on trial, and then hang her, either!

/I was a slightly warped, yet very justice-minded little girl

289 CoolShades  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:10:40pm

re: #271 LeePro

Sarah Palin would be a good VP candidate if Obama selects Hillary. C. Rice is also a good choice.

290 funky chicken  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:10:49pm

Any of you who still believe the Coulteresque line that McCain is equal to Obama need to check out the AFL-CIO website. Their little union laborers put in lots of time building an extensive expose of McCain's "right wing extremist" positions. Grab a beverage of your choice and settle in, because they did put in a lot of work.

Two quick excerpts:

McCain Dismissed Concerns on Mortgage Crisis and Economy. While campaigning in Florida, McCain dismissed concerns about the economy. “Even if the economy is the, quote, No. 1 issue, the real issue will remain America’s security,” McCain said. “And if they choose to say, ‘Look, I do not need this guy because he’s not as good on home loan mortgages or whatever it is, I understand about that, I will accept that verdict. I am running because of the transcendental challenge of the 21st century, which is radical Islamic extremism.” (The New York Times, 1/28/08)

McCAIN VOTES WITH BUSH
McCain Voted with the Bush Administration 89 Percent of the Time. Since President Bush took office, McCain has supported Bush’s positions 89 percent of the time. McCain’s support of Bush’s policies reached as high as 95 percent in 2007. [Congressional Quarterly Voting Study, 110th Congress]

[Link: www.aflcio.org...]

291 Sunlight  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:10:51pm

re: #287 Pastorius

Heh.

I've been predicting for months that Hilary would be McCain's running mate.

I'd rather urge him to bring on a competent capitalist to run with him. Someone to temper McCain's cap and trade tax fever.

292 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:11:00pm

re: #283 The Other Les

The techobabble in the mission planning scene sucked and Tom Berenger was firing a Uzi from the shoulder with the stock folded.

While silhouetting himself in doorways, don't forget that.

Nevertheless, I kind of like the flick.

293 bcgirl  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:11:47pm

amen! McCain in 08
re: #197 The Other Les

Old school gentlemen are real men.

294 Charles  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:11:53pm

re: #261 really grumpy big dog johnson

I just wish Jindal was not in favor of teaching intelligent design in schools. In most areas his vision is very close to my own.

I'm very disappointed to learn that. Extremely disappointed, in fact.

I guess if you're opposed to the spread of ID you need to research every candidate's position on it.

295 CowardKerry  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:12:15pm

re: #284 LeePro

Self:
...or maybe NOT!

If Hillary signs on as VEEP you might see Bill and Michelle in the same room....Gasp.

296 infidel Alan  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:12:49pm

I just watched McCain on Fox for a few minutes. He's not a particularly effective speaker and doesn't convey much passion or conviction. I see a replay of Dole's campaign coming.

297 Pastorius  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:13:14pm

#291,

I'm not prescribing, just describing what I think he thinks.

And, what I'm saying has some logic to it.

298 The Other Les  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:13:17pm

re: #270 chicagodudewhotrades

The original Frederick Forsythe short story was better

It was a novel.

I actually used the novel as the basis for an operation in the Traveller SFRPG. I made the mistake of substituting the space going version of a tramp freighter for the ocean going version. The problem was that merchant starships in Traveller are armed. so the mercs basically hovered over the garrison with the ship and hosed it down with laser fire.

299 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:15:32pm

re: #253 TheMatrix31

Thanks a lot, bud. I could have done a Google search but figured there may be some specific sites you knowledgable guys might have on record.

That's bud-ette, sweetie pie.

}: p

300 funky chicken  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:16:13pm

Contrast:

ALI ABUNIMAH: I don’t know if they’ve been asked in a debate, but whenever they have been asked, they have all gone out of their way to express full support for what Israel is doing. Barack Obama is not distinguished from the rest of the pack, except by for how far he has moved to try to appease AIPAC and pro-Israel movements.

I remember, Amy—I knew Barack Obama for many years as my state senator—when he used to attend events in the Palestinian community in Chicago all the time.

I remember personally introducing him onstage in 1999, when we had a major community fundraiser for the community center in Deheisha refugee camp in the occupied West Bank. And that’s just one example of how Barack Obama used to be very comfortable speaking up for and being associated with Palestinian rights and opposing the Israeli occupation. And just yesterday, he apparently sent a letter to Zalmay Khalilzad, the US ambassador at the UN, to urge the US not to allow any resolution to pass criticizing Israel and saying how Israel was forced to impose this barbaric medieval siege on Israel.

with:

McCain Dismissed Concerns on Mortgage Crisis and Economy. While campaigning in Florida, McCain dismissed concerns about the economy. “Even if the economy is the, quote, No. 1 issue, the real issue will remain America’s security,” McCain said. “And if they choose to say, ‘Look, I do not need this guy because he’s not as good on home loan mortgages or whatever it is, I understand about that, I will accept that verdict. I am running because of the transcendental challenge of the 21st century, which is radical Islamic extremism.” (The New York Times, 1/28/08)

I think it's quite clear.

301 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:16:42pm

re: #10 zombie

I think McCain + Hillary would WIN the general election ...

... and 95% of the electorate would subsequently be mortified and disgusted by the result.

Even though they did the voting.

I agree Zombie. Sometimes I hate myself for these stray thoughts, but I'd like to see Obama pick Harry Belefonte for VP--or Whoopie Goldberg.

302 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:18:53pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

I disagree - he just needs to make the case. Reagan did a great job reminding voters "it's YOUR money", and that the government was mostly supposed to leave them alone to lead their own lives.

Reagan was in the right place at the right time for that to work, after a feckless socialist Carter, and at the tail end of The New Deal / Great Society (even through Nixon).

Note that he did NOT win on "the economy" as such, with Reagan, personality did come first. Hard to say how much the "your money" really mattered, the electorate wanted a change, and he was it. Just as a few years later, Bubba was elected partly on the economy, but mostly because he wasn't Bush.

(not to mention Perot fouling up the process)

303 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:19:25pm

re: #301 katemaclaren

I agree Zombie. Sometimes I hate myself for these stray thoughts, but I'd like to see Obama pick Harry Belefonte for VP--or Whoopie Goldberg.

Or Maxine Waters.

304 Zack  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:19:42pm

Hillary is too fiscally conservative for McCain.

305 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:20:38pm

re: #289 CoolShades

Sarah Palin would be a good VP candidate if Obama selects Hillary. C. Rice is also a good choice.

I agree. I just wanted to know the value of making public discussion of the misfortune of her Down Syndrome child!

Repeat: What's the point?

306 Tigger2005  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:21:54pm

re: #261 really grumpy big dog johnson

Yeah, I can deal with the I.D. thing too. I think it's an extremely important issue, don't get me wrong...teaching I.D. as science would be fundamentally dishonest and would further undermine this nation's scientific literacy, which would in turn impact our economic and scientific leadership. In addition, I.D. trivializes faith. In my view, it's actually UN-conservative.

But in Pennsylvania, a conservative, Republican, Baptist judge--not a liberal activist judge--had the integrity to reject I.D. arguments and recognized that I.D. is simply creationism in a "new" guise, and an attempt to force a religious belief into science classrooms. Having a Veep sympathetic to I.D. is not the end of the world--heck, Bush is sympathetic to I.D. and where has that gotten it in almost 8 years?

On the other hand, an Obama Presidency could well mean the end of the world as we know it. And not in a good way.

307 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:23:43pm
308 looking closely  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:23:57pm

re: #175 Charles

lawhawk: looks great! Change!

I'd agree with zombie on the text/background colors -- I always find light text on dark background hard to read too.

There is actual research data from the ad world that shows that dark text on a light background is easier to read (and conveys a more memorable impression) than the converse.

You'd think light text on dark background would be "hip" but its just harder to read.

309 EC Marm  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:25:18pm

re: #256 lawhawk
Light or white text on dark background is known in the printing industry as a reverse. The rule of thumb I followed (and most printers) was that a reverse should always be in bold for clarity. A blog in all bold would be pretty extreme. You might be able to use a font with more umph, that is, not scrawny to help.

310 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:27:17pm
311 Dartmouth  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:31:12pm

re: #58 song_and_dance_man

Re: the ululululu post back thread- I was mimicking the yodel of a celebrating Muslim.

Oh man, right over my head. Obvious now though, thanks.

312 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:34:08pm

re: #290 funky chicken

Any of you who still believe the Coulteresque line that McCain is equal to Obama need to check out the AFL-CIO website. Their little union laborers put in lots of time building an extensive expose of McCain's "right wing extremist" positions. Grab a beverage of your choice and settle in, because they did put in a lot of work.

Two quick excerpts:


[Link: www.aflcio.org...]

The SOURCE of your quote...

/jus' sayin'

313 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:36:23pm

re: #295 CowardKerry

If Hillary signs on as VEEP you might see Bill and Michelle in the same room....Gasp.

hmmmmmmmmm...

Somehow I can't see Michelle going with that!

314 looking closely  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:37:48pm

On McCain-Hilary, good joke. . .never going to happen.

McCain-Lieberman. . .a bit more plausible, but still not going to happen. Why would McCain piss off every party loyalist by picking a liberal Democrat in everything but official affiliation?

Obama-Clinton. . .I just don't see that one either. Again, Obama simply can't trust Hilary to be a "team player" as VP and her maverick husband is a constant potential liability. Hilary has a lot of negative baggage with her, including the highest unpopularity rating of all of the major candidates in the race thusfar. She wouldn't help Obama swing any states in particular.

Further, Obama is under no pressure to formally name a VP candidate right now. . .he has to get the nod first, and that's not official until the convention.

So long as he believes he has the nomination sewed up (and it seems likely that this is true. . .though not absolutely certain), he doesn't *really* have to offer Clinton anything other than public lip service and gracious behavior. So long as he beats her fair and square that's her problem.

What's she going to do. . .pout about a "stolen nomination" and take the ball home with her?

She may be vindictive, but doing that would be politically stupid. If nominee Obama lost the election, she'd be blamed, ruining her standing within the party. If Obama won, not only would she ruin her standing within the party, but she'd be on the wrong side of a sitting US President.

315 LeePro  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:39:46pm

re: #297 Pastorius

#291,

I'm not prescribing, just describing what I think he thinks.

And, what I'm saying has some logic to it.

So..................

Who is comment #291?

And what did he/she say?

As a courtesy to the rest of us, why not use the "reply" or the "quote" button?

316 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:50:00pm
317 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 7:20:05pm

re: #3 zombie

ZOMBIE -

1. McCain/Clinton will not happen.

2. I repeat myself here OBAMA/? will be the ticket of the "African Al Smith."

-S-

318 CurlyDave  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 10:35:00pm

McCain is way to old to have Hillary as VP.

Isn't he the oldest man to ever run for President?

Going in his VP is the most important VP in history.

319 CurlyDave  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 10:40:23pm

re: #280 LeePro

Somebody sell me a bumper sticker.

I still have the "Run, Jessie, Run" sticker on my front bumper...

320 Sacred Plants  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 3:11:44am
Discuss.

McCain would be stupid to decide on a veep before Obama does. And if the electorate wants him to share the White House with someone from the other party, he´d be more than stupid to pick the Trojan horse instead of the wild one.

Now with history´s dustbin closing its cap over Clinton, the really interesting race will be Obama/McCain against McCain/Obama. Might be a draw until the last minute!


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