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The Protocols of the Daily Kos

Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:22:32 am PDT

At Daily Kos, the denizens are discussing whether Barack Obama has fallen under the spell of the “Zionist Lobby:” Daily Kos: Obama’s Speech at AIPAC: A New Concession to the Zionist Lobby?

Obama gave possibly the most vaunted foreign policy speech today at the AIPAC conference. He’s once again reiterating and repeating his committment to Israel’ security and well being as well as his belief in the historical bound between the US and the Jewish state. Remarkably, he also promised that Jerusalem will become Israel’s capital, something that unheard of from Hillary, Bill Clinton, and even the Bushes. In terms of Iran, Obama promised to use a strong diplomacy and no longer applying the word “unconditional” dialogues with the Mullah’s regime. Instead, he would carefully set up a preparation before engaging with it and only when Iran will not become a threat to the state of Israel (it sounds like a conditionality to me).  

Obama’s speech today is, unquestionably, a beautiful music for Israel and the Jewish lobby, while giving a sense of deja vu for the Palestinians and, most probably, an anti climax message to the Muslim world. It seems that it would be delusional now to expect a different trajectory for the six decades Israeli-Palestinian conflict after listening to the speech. If anything, the speech will send a strong message for the people in the Mideast to prepare for another eight years of continuous violence.  

It’s revealing to me that even a Presidential candidate whose main credential and strongest message is about change could only go so far when it comes to foreign policy related with Israel and the Mideast. If the AIPAC speech will become Obama’s policy blue print for the Mideast in the next eight years, I would argue that there will be no significant and real change in terms of conflict resolutions and the relationship between the Arab and Muslim world with the US.

(Hat tip: BFSkinner.)

UPDATE at 6/4/08 9:34:43 am:

And another anti-Israel, pro-Obama diary sums up the speeches to AIPAC as: Daily Kos: Three Candidates Falling Over Each Other To Kiss AIPAC’s Ass.

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179 comments

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1 victor_yugo  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:23:42am

So, which is it?

Obama is a suck-up to anti-Semites?

or

Obama is a Zionist?

2 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:23:43am

"Fallen under the spell?" Don't bet on it.

3 Sizzlack  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:24:01am

Well we know the General Election is here when in the span of 24 hours Obama has moved to the center on Israel. The moonies must be sh*tting bricks right now.

4 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:24:08am

Has it ever occurred to any of them that he's just saying what he thinks will get him elected? We all know what his agenda is; his actions speak louder than words.

5 WriterMom  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:24:27am

THE ZIONIST HAIR BEAMS STRIKE AGAIN!

6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:25:40am

The biggest suckup the ME could ever dream for just got the nomination and they're worried he wont suck up enough.

7 VegasRick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:26:01am

How do these people even tie their shoes?

8 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:26:08am
Obama’s speech today is, unquestionably, a beautiful music for Israel and the Jewish lobby, while giving a sense of deja vu for the Palestinians and, most probably, an anti climax message to the Muslim world


I wonder if there will be a shortage of volunteers at Obama's call centers in Gaza.

9 LoFlyer  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:26:20am

Obama talks big about supporting Israel when he is talking to a room full of Jews, what does he say in a room full Muslims?

10 saberry0530  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:26:21am

re: #1 victor_yugo

So, which is it?

Obama is a suck-up to anti-Semites?

or

Obama is a Zionist?

What day of the week is it?

11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:26:46am

re: #7 VegasRick

How do these people even tie their shoes?

Birkenstocks dont have laces

12 VegasRick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:27:10am

re: #9 LoFlyer

Obama talks big about supporting Israel when he is talking to a room full of Jews, what does he say in a room full Muslims?

allah ackbar?
/

13 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:27:15am

re: #5 WriterMom

THE ZIONIST HAIR BEAMS STRIKE AGAIN!

Their Hair-Ray Fu is strong!

/was babbazee there?

14 BGB!  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:27:16am

These people are just sick :8

15 VegasRick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:27:26am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Birkenstocks dont have laces

Right!

16 uncle_monkey  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:27:33am

A politician pander?
Oh, the humanity.

17 The Other Les  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:27:54am

re: #10 saberry0530

What day of the week is it?

Which way is the wind blowing?

18 JohnnyReb  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:28:02am

He is just like any other politician, he doesn't believe a single word of what he is saying. He is just saying it to get the votes.

19 Sharmuta  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:28:08am
If anything, the speech will send a strong message for the people in the Mideast to prepare for another eight years of continuous violence.

First- your precious obama hasn't won the White House yet- he doesn't have 4 years, much less eight.

Second- the people of the middle east better prepare for an eternity of continuous violence because it's in their koran.

20 TrollBot PrtoType Six  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:28:12am

re: #7 VegasRick

How do these people even tie their shoes?

Velcro

21 saberry0530  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:28:56am

re: #17 The Other Les

Which way is the wind blowing?

(wets finger and raises it into the air)

22 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:29:01am

re: #18 JohnnyReb

He is just like any other politician, he doesn't believe a single word of what he is saying. He is just saying it to get the votes.

Yet inevitably, a few shreds of honesty slip through. Can we say "bitter"?

23 jamgarr  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:29:15am

once again reiterating and repeating

Damn, how many times would that be?!

24 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:29:22am

re: #4 thedopefishlives

Has it ever occurred to any of them that he's just saying what he thinks will get him elected? We all know what his agenda is; his actions speak louder than words.

No, common sense does not penetrate tin foil.

25 Maine's Michael  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:29:34am
Obama’s speech today is, unquestionably, a beautiful music for Israel and the Jewish lobby, while giving a sense of deja vu for the Palestinians and, most probably, an anti climax message to the Muslim world.

Last I checked, the Palestinians, and the rest of teh Arab world, were not going to be voting for the POTUS in November.

Members of the American Jewish Community, however, will be.

American democracy sucks, if you're an Arab, or Jew hater. Tough shit.

26 Sizzlack  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:29:45am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Birkenstocks dont have laces

no shoes, they go barefoot....you don't know how much pain footsteps inflict on mother earth

27 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:29:45am

re: #22 Fat Jolly Penguin

Yet inevitably, a few shreds of honesty slip through. Can we say "bitter"?

Guns & Moses?

28 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:30:19am

re: #7 VegasRick

How do these people even tie their shoes?

They wear shoes? Thought they were in their parents' basements all damn day long.

29 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:30:50am

re: #24 Honorary Yooper

No, common sense does not penetrate tin foil.

Ah, very good point.

Come to think of it, that sounds like a great rotating title.

30 gman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:31:08am

They wanted change and now they're getting it.....
courtesy of the Waffler

31 Maine's Michael  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:31:18am

re: #9 LoFlyer

Obama talks big about supporting Israel when he is talking to a room full of Jews, what does he say in a room full Muslims?

We'll find out soon enough.

These little secrets don't stay hidden in a Presidential election.

32 JohnnyReb  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:31:30am

re: #22 Fat Jolly Penguin

Yet inevitably, a few shreds of honesty slip through. Can we say "bitter"?


Well there was that little bit of honesty in SF true. But overall he is nothing but a bunch of typical politician sound bytes.

33 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:31:31am
gave possibly the most vaunted foreign policy speech

I think this Jew-hating fool doesn't really know what the word "vaunted" means.

34 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:31:36am

re: #27 Ward Cleaver

Guns & Moses?

Yeppers.

BBIAB

35 The Other Les  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:31:50am

re: #26 Sizzlack

no shoes, they go barefoot....you don't know how much pain footsteps inflict on mother earth

Cthulhu has a program for reducing the pain that Mother Earth from the pressure of Human feet.

Yum. Yum.

36 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:31:58am

Obama is an undercover NeoCon!

Rove, you magnificent bastard!

37 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:32:06am
38 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:32:16am

I reckon the only kind of change this dip-shit wants is the eradication of Israel.

39 gman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:32:18am

Yes indeed, be ready for change from one day to the next. It will be nonstop change.

40 The Other Les  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:32:39am

re: #28 Honorary Yooper

They wear shoes? Thought they were in their parents' basements all damn day long.

Concrete floors are pretty cold. Especially in winter.

41 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:32:46am

re: #37 NJDhockeyfan

This one is still up:

Three Candidates Falling Over Each Other To Kiss AIPAC’s Ass

There's enough Protocols of the Daily Kos to fill a book.

42 Sharmuta  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:32:48am

re: #30 gman

They wanted change and now they're getting it.....
courtesy of the Waffler

LOL! Typical progressives. It wasn't the change they wanted so it's bad.

43 Sizzlack  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:33:06am

re: #35 The Other Les

Cthulhu has a program for reducing the pain that Mother Earth from the pressure of Human feet.

Yum. Yum.

that must be why they call it a carbon footprint...evil evil footprints they are

44 WriterMom  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:33:08am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hey! Neither do Naot's but they are gracing my feet today...

45 Iron Fist  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:33:11am

What did they expect him to say? "As President, I will give Amidinijad a green light to scrape Israel off into the Med!"? That is what these moonbats want to hear.

46 mickthemick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:33:29am
Obama’s speech today is, unquestionably, a beautiful music for Israel and the Jewish lobby, while giving a sense of deja vu for the Palestinians and, most probably, an anti climax message to the Muslim world.

Aw, heck, Kos....the 'Ummah woulda' just found something else to whine and seethe about. And the (so-called) 'Palestinians' would have continued to find new, never-before-realized opportunities to miss opportunities.

47 faraway  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:33:29am

The reason Obama beat is Hillary is because he stole her healthcare plan.

Obama will now neuter McCain by stealing most of his ideas.

Simple formula really.

48 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:33:48am

He made a campaign speech to a special interest group. What did those whack jobs think he was going to say to AIPAC?

49 TallTexan  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:34:13am

I have never seen a picture of Obama and Rove together: QED* they must be the same guy!


*QED- Quad Erat Democratis -- Thus proven to moonbats

50 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:34:23am

re: #48 Who Watches the Watchmen?

He made a campaign speech to a special interest group. What did those whack jobs think he was going to say to AIPAC?

But I thought that Obama was above kowtowing to Special Interest groups...

51 The Other Les  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:34:26am

re: #43 Sizzlack

Why do I keep missing words when I type?

52 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:34:40am

re: #47 faraway

The reason Obama beat is Hillary is because he stole her healthcare plan.

Obama will now neuter McCain by stealing most of his ideas.

Simple formula really.

OK, then Obama can start drilling for oil. And I don't mean in a few years, I mean right now, this very second.

Wait, didn't he vote against that?

53 Sizzlack  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:34:55am

re: #47 faraway

54 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:35:14am

re: #35 The Other Les

Cthulhu has a program for reducing the pain that Mother Earth from the pressure of Human feet.

Yum. Yum.

Cthulu was in favor of reducing human carbon footprints WAY before it was cool. He veritably defines "progressive".

55 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:35:20am

re: #52 Honorary Yooper

I think he voted 'Present'

56 Maine's Michael  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:35:23am

re: #45 Iron Fist

What did they expect him to say? "As President, I will give Amidinijad a green light to scrape Israel off into the Med!"? That is what these moonbats want to hear.

He wouldn' t have to say that. Lot's of code words he could use.

He's used them before, on this subject.

He's full of shit.

He and Michele can almost taste dinner on the White House crockery.

57 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:35:42am

re: #17 The Other Les

Which way is the wind blowing?

You don't need to be a weatherman to know the way the wind blows.

Just ask Ayers.

58 mickthemick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:35:48am
It’s revealing to me that even a Presidential candidate whose main credential and strongest message is about change could only go so far when it comes to foreign policy related with Israel and the Mideast.

It's revealing to me that you care so much about what the Islamic world thinks.

59 Sizzlack  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:35:51am

re: #47 faraway

Obama, McCain, the word neutering....bad image in my head

60 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:35:54am

re: #28 Honorary Yooper

They wear shoes? Thought they were in their parents' basements all damn day long.

Hey, they can open a bag of Cheetos!

/with their teeth

61 Equable  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:36:32am

That's politics for you. It's tantamount to sexing up your resume only to bork the job you're going after.

62 Spiny Norman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:36:43am
At Daily Kos, the denizens are discussing whether Barack Obama has fallen under the spell of the “Zionist Lobby

Shrieks the Koslings:

Obamessiah is consorting with the ENEMY! Somebody stop him! Ayyyyeeee!
63 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:36:49am

re: #58 mickthemick

It's revealing to me that you care so much about what the Islamic world thinks.

Well, we aren't liked by the rest of the world because we insanely decided to rid the planet of two bad regimes and liberate 25 Million people...

So we clearly now have to elect someone who will 'restore' out 'image' to the rest of the world...

64 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:37:01am

re: #49 TallTexan

QED- Quad Quod Erat Democratis Demonstrandum

65 WriterMom  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:37:02am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

an anti climax message to the Muslim world

My first thought is EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW pass the brain bleach. The words climax and Muslim world just do not work for me in the same sentence.

My second thought is...hmmm what would Obama's 'climax' message be to the Muslim world?

Hmmm? Hmmmm?

66 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:37:02am

re: #56 Maine's Michael

He wouldn' t have to say that. Lot's of code words he could use.

He's used them before, on this subject.

He's full of shit.

He and Michele can almost taste dinner on the White House crockery.

Hugo Chavez snoring in the Lincoln bedroom.

67 The Other Les  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:37:06am

re: #54 Occasional Reader

Cthulu was in favor of reducing human carbon footprints WAY before it was cool. He veritably defines "progressive".

Cthulhu approves!

[Link: www.macguff.fr...]

68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:37:11am

re: #52 Honorary Yooper

OK, then Obama can start drilling for oil. And I don't mean in a few years, I mean right now, this very second.

Wait, didn't he vote against that?

Bringing up Barry's voting record is off limits.

69 Sharmuta  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:37:16am

kosling says:

Three Candidates Falling Over Each Other To Kiss AIPAC’s Ass

And We Wonder Why Nothing Changes.

Hey- you're the dumbasses believing this "CHANGE" crap.

70 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:37:37am

re: #62 Spiny Norman

Which enemy? Fox News?

/

71 WriterMom  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:37:38am

re: #56 Maine's Michael

"I get why Hamas digs me."

72 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:37:55am

re: #68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bringing up Barry's voting record is off limits.

Who needs oil? We'll all ride the bus.

73 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:38:07am

re: #68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bringing up Barry's voting record is off limits.

But you know damn well that bringing up John McCain's record is completely fine...

74 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:38:28am

re: #72 Ward Cleaver

Who needs oil? We'll all ride the bus.

Under the bus, you mean...

75 FishFearMe  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:38:44am

re: #60 Ward Cleaver

Hey, they can open a bag of Cheetos!

/with their teeth

Both teeth?

76 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:38:51am

re: #72 Ward Cleaver

Who needs oil? We'll all ride under the bus.

Fixed my own.

77 addison  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:38:51am
If the AIPAC speech will become Obama’s policy blue print for the Mideast in the next eight years, I would argue that there will be no significant and real change in terms of conflict resolutions and the relationship between the Arab and Muslim world with the US.

- The author writes as though an Obama election and re-election win are foregone conclusions. A bit hubristic?

- The premise of their entire argument is wrong. Perhaps the day Palestinians stop rearing their children with the belief that the highest calling available is the murder of Jews, then, and only then, will there be the first steps to a resolution. Let's be clear, the government (as it were) that runs the 'Palestinian' areas has a map of itself that includes Israel proper. They do not officially recognize something before their eyes.

Maybe starting there would be better than petulantly kvetching about a speech at AIPAC. Has the author ever spared so much virtual ink for those murdered by Hamas and Al-Aqsa?

78 The Other Les  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:39:02am

re: #72 Ward Cleaver

Who needs oil? We'll all ride the bus.

Did the idiot who originally said ever figure it out?

79 saberry0530  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:39:15am

re: #72 Ward Cleaver

Who needs oil? We'll all get run over by ride the bus.

thats better....

80 VegasRick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:39:17am

re: #68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bringing up Barry's voting record is off limits.

It's racist.
/

81 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:39:46am

re: #41 Honorary Yooper

They've improved, The Koskidz used to be much worse.

82 maddogg  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:39:48am

The road to the White House paved with Palestinian bodies?

Well, at least the Palis are gonna have a lot of company under that Greyhound :)

83 Opinionated  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:39:53am

Obama went so overboard in lying of his support for Israel.

Even going so far as to promise a policy of supporting an undivided Jerusalem.

Is there a human being with a functioning brain anywhere who would believe that promise from Obama.

If he lied about Jerusalem, then he lied about everything.

Lies you can believe in.

84 rusty_armor  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:39:55am

... The scary thing for me is that we don't know which way Obama swings on the security of Israel. You can bet that his resolve or lack of resolve on the issue will be tested.

My money is on his abandoning Israel once he is elected.

85 bald headed geek  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:39:59am

re: #2 Ward Cleaver

Agreed. I don't trust Obama as far as I can throw him on the subject of Israel.

BHG

86 conservativeChick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:40:05am

Wait who said this now? Kos or the Muslims because its getting harder for me to tell each other apart.

87 BFSkinner  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:40:11am

He did call for a two state resolution (0 / 0)
and Obama was also critical of the continued settlement building.

However, I did listen to the whole speech to AIPAC, and this diary has it mostly correct. Obama's proposed policy is largely a continuation of a misguided and unrealistic Mideast policy. Why in the world would any Arab country want to fully recognize Israel, when Israel itself refuses to recognize a free and democratic Palestinian country.

And why does Obama seem tp place all the blame for the killings of civilians in this conflict on Hamas? Most of the civilian killings in the Mideast has been the result of American and Israeli state terrorism.

88 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:40:54am

re: #74 tfc3rid

Under the bus, you mean...

So how big is Obama's bus' carbon footprint?

89 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:41:34am

re: #87 BFSkinner

Um, you're quoting a Kosling, right?

90 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:41:52am

re: #69 Sharmuta

kosling says:

Hey- you're the dumbasses believing this "CHANGE" crap.

Kos Kidz: pwned by Obama.

91 BFSkinner  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:42:17am

re: #89 Occasional Reader

Um, you're quoting a Kosling, right?

Of course.

92 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:42:19am

re: #88 Kosh's Shadow

So how big is Obama's bus' carbon footprint?

Enormous. Like Rosie's butt.

93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:43:03am

Obama to the Kossacks:

"I got the nomination, bitches. Say hi to my Granny and Pastor while you're down there." /swerves the bus hard right

94 sadhu  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:43:05am

@BFSkinner

?

95 Opinionated  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:43:23am

So here is Senator Obama, in his own words.

From Dreams of My Father: "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

From Dreams of My Father : "I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race."

From Dreams of My Father: "There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white."

From Dreams of My Father: "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."

From Dreams of My Father: "I never emulated white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela."

From Audacity of Hope: "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

[Link: www.carolineglick.com...]

96 sadhu  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:43:35am

@BFSkinner -- thanks for clarifying

97 Spiny Norman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:43:36am

re: #83 Opinionated

Lies you can believe in.

Ooh! I like it!

I want this bumper sticker: Obama08 - Lies you can believe in!

98 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:43:56am

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obama to the Kossacks:

"I got the nomination, bitches bitchez. Say hi to my Granny and Pastor while you're down there." /swerves the bus hard right

Fixed.

99 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:44:00am

re: #95 Opinionated

We've aleady been down the road with some of those quotes earlier this week...

Some are not true...

100 leboaz  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:44:44am

what, exactly, is "the Zionist Lobby"?

101 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:45:04am

Those pesky Jews. Shut up and die already!

/

Call me when they start sniffing around the ten Arab oil dollars that flow into government and education for every dime of "Jewish" money...

102 paxnhymn  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:45:33am

re: #99 tfc3rid

We've aleady been down the road with some of those quotes earlier this week...

Some are not true...

hell, I missed that! which one? just gimmmee the numbers off 99...

103 VegasRick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:45:36am

re: #97 Spiny Norman

Ooh! I like it!

I want this bumper sticker: Obama08 - Lies you can believe in!

That is good.

104 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:45:49am

re: #100 leboaz

what, exactly, is "the Zionist Lobby"?

Jews who wish to exist.

105 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:45:52am

re: #100 leboaz

what, exactly, is "the Zionist Lobby"?

It a nice little reception room with seltzers where you wait before you get called into to see the Zionist overlords

106 BFSkinner  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:45:58am

re: #100 leboaz

what, exactly, is "the Zionist Lobby"?


LOL.

He originally had the "Jewish Lobby" but then he got grief when people complained about a lobby at a deli. So he switched it to the evil "Zionist lobby"

107 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:46:10am

re: #97 Spiny Norman

Ooh! I like it!

I want this bumper sticker: Obama08 - Lies you can believe in!

Two big thumbs up.

HP used to make "bumper sticker" paper that you could use with a printer to make your own adhesive bumper stickers, I think that Office Depot or somebody like that sells their own kind.

108 SlartyBartfast  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:46:22am

re: #4 thedopefishlives

Has it ever occurred to any of them that he's just saying what he thinks will get him elected? We all know what his agenda is; his actions speak louder than words.

Exactly my thoughts: he probably asked his speechwriter(s), "Who are these people and what do they want to hear?"

109 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:46:46am

re: #103 VegasRick

That is good.

My favorite was a very small signature file .gif I saw on a gun forum of Obama's "Hope" image, except it just said "NOPE".

(I propose a variant which says "HYPE".)

110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:47:01am

re: #108 SlartyBartfast

Exactly my thoughts: he probably asked his speechwriter(s), "Who are these people and what do they want to hear?"

"What can I say so they really really like me?"

111 mickthemick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:47:40am

#87

Most of the civilian killings in the Mideast has been the result of American and Israeli state terrorism.

More Iraqis have died as a result of sectarian violence and Iraqi-on-Iraqi retaliatory killings than have died as a result of anything the U.S. has or hasn't done. And nobody can murder and torture "Palestinians" like other Arabs can - especially if they are fellow "Palestinians."

Do you know anything about Israel? Israel has done more for the "Palestinians" than any Arab or Muslim country.

112 paxnhymn  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:47:44am

re: #100 leboaz

what, exactly, is "the Zionist Lobby"?

check in desk at the Hilton Manhattan...


/badumbump.

113 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:47:49am
prepare for another eight years of continuous violence

Obama’s policy blue print for the Mideast in the next eight years

What a load of brain puke. Eight years my ass. Obama is already president in the delusional moonbat's mind.

114 Sharmuta  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:48:23am

re: #90 Ward Cleaver

Kos Kidz: pwned by Obama.

They won't realize they've been had until it's too late for all of us.

115 Spiny Norman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:48:29am

re: #87 BFSkinner

He did call for a two state resolution (0 / 0)
and Obama was also critical of the continued settlement building.

However, I did listen to the whole speech to AIPAC, and this diary has it mostly correct. Obama's proposed policy is largely a continuation of a misguided and unrealistic Mideast policy. Why in the world would any Arab country want to fully recognize Israel, when Israel itself refuses to recognize a free and democratic Palestinian country.

And why does Obama seem tp place all the blame for the killings of civilians in this conflict on Hamas? Most of the civilian killings in the Mideast has been the result of American and Israeli state terrorism.

He didn't really write that, did he? No one can be that ignorant!

Unfuckingbelievable.

116 Pyrocles  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:48:38am

re: #87 BFSkinner
I don't think the Palestinians are in a hurry to recognize their own "free and democratic Palestinian country." A harsh Sharia-governed militaristic sultanate isn't what I call "democratic".


He did call for a two state resolution (0 / 0)
and Obama was also critical of the continued settlement building.

However, I did listen to the whole speech to AIPAC, and this diary has it mostly correct. Obama's proposed policy is largely a continuation of a misguided and unrealistic Mideast policy. Why in the world would any Arab country want to fully recognize Israel, when Israel itself refuses to recognize a free and democratic Palestinian country.

And why does Obama seem tp place all the blame for the killings of civilians in this conflict on Hamas? Most of the civilian killings in the Mideast has been the result of American and Israeli state terrorism.

117 Athos  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:49:20am

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"What can I say so they really really like me?"

Wasn't there an excessive pandering penalty call on Barry that was missed?

The funny part is the KosKiddies don't seem to get pandering when its not directed at them.

118 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:49:27am

re: #102 paxnhymn

hell, I missed that! which one? just gimmmee the numbers off 99...

i will look back.... not sure when this list came up... maybe monday morning...

there were issues especially with the last one...

119 mickthemick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:49:39am

re: #91 BFSkinner

Of course.

OK....I thought you may have been serious since your post wasn't tagged. :)

120 Athos  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:49:41am

re: #114 Sharmuta

They won't realize they've been had until it's too late for all of us.

But, it's all about change!

/

121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:50:00am

re: #115 Spiny Norman

He didn't really write that, did he? No one can be that ignorant!

Unfuckingbelievable.

Well, no Israelis can be a civilian and all those terrorists who died out of uniform must have been civilians.

122 mickthemick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:50:54am

re: #115 Spiny Norman

Check out #91. He was being sarcastic, but didn't tag the post.

123 paxnhymn  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:51:00am

re: #118 tfc3rid

i will look back.... not sure when this list came up... maybe monday morning...

there were issues especially with the last one...


shit! It was the last one I was clinging to....

well, except for my guns and religion of course.

124 BFSkinner  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:51:27am

re: #119 mickthemick

OK....I thought you may have been serious since your post wasn't tagged. :)

Sorry.

I was the one that reported the original goings on over at DK in the first place.

I am on my notebook so the ability to shift/quote is not that easy to do, so I apologize for having yall think I'd say that trash.

125 WrathofG-d  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:51:31am
Instead, he would carefully set up a preparation before engaging with it and only when Iran will not become a threat to the state of Israel (it sounds like a conditionality to me).

Funny!...it sounds like a condition to me.

Obama’s speech today is, unquestionably, a beautiful music for Israel and the Jewish lobby, while giving a sense of deja vu for the Palestinians and, most probably, an anti climax message to the Muslim world.

Oops; mask slip there a bit with the "Jewish Lobby" pal? I mean didn't you meant to say "Zionist Lobby". Yea remember that Zionist Lobby is so much more P.C., and the Leftists can argue thus not Anti-Semitic. I guess when posting emotionally the truth slips out.

I should also point out the confusion on the part of this supposedly "world citizen". He/she/it essentially complains that Obama is pandering to the Jewish Lobby, over the Muslim World. Well being that that so-called "Jewish Lobby" (if it exists at all) is made up of United States citizens (ie: the people a POTUS is supposed to represent). The same cannot be said for either the so-called "palestinians" and definately not the Muslim World (which 99.9% of the time refers to Muslim Countries, and non-U.S. citizens.)

It seems that it would be delusional now to expect a different trajectory for the six decades Israeli-Palestinian conflict after listening to the speech. If anything, the speech will send a strong message for the people in the Mideast to prepare for another eight years of continuous violence.

Um dude, negotiating with the Arabs, and offering the Phakestinians 99.9% of all of Judea/Samaria and Aza (which they now control) has been the standard "trajectory for the six decades of Israeli-"Palestinian" conflict (assuming the false reality that it has only lasted the existance of the State of Israel & that there are actually "Palestinians" at all, if even for that long). Ironically, it has been exactly this "trajectory" that has caused the "continuous violence". I agree however, we should try something different, like siding with Israel 100% against Terrorism, wiping out Terrorists, and thereafter allowing Israel to decide if it wishes to give Yesha over to the remaining Arabs.

It’s revealing to me that even a Presidential candidate whose main credential and strongest message is about change could only go so far when it comes to foreign policy related with Israel and the Mideast.

Oh and what does it "reveal"? Loosened up the mask there but didn't let it slip completely this time did you. I know what it "reveals"; "Jewish Control of The Government", "All Powerful Jewish Lobby", "nefarious Jewish designs on the World"... Right buddy!? Don't be coy. Us, in the know, know what you are warning about.

If the AIPAC speech will become Obama’s policy blue print for the Mideast in the next eight years, I would argue that there will be no significant and real change in terms of conflict resolutions and the relationship between the Arab and Muslim world with the US.

Well, you and Wrath agree there. But most likely not for the same reasons.

126 VegasRick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:52:16am

re: #109 Pawn of the Oppressor

My favorite was a very small signature file .gif I saw on a gun forum of Obama's "Hope" image, except it just said "NOPE".

(I propose a variant which says "HYPE".)

I told my wife that for the first time in my life I was going to put a bumper sticker on my car if obambi wins "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for the asshole". I like yours better. "Nope". That works.

127 Eowyn2  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:53:29am

re: #3 Sizzlack

Well we know the General Election is here when in the span of 24 hours Obama has moved to the center on Israel. The moonies must be sh*tting bricks right now.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

128 Ceemack  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:54:55am

Every time I read a DK post on Israel, and the accompanying comments, it seems to highlight the same points of ignorance: that there once was a nation of "Palestine", that the "Palestinians" are one people, and that Jews simply came in and displaced them all.

It underscores the entire worldview--and fundamental flaw--of the modern Left: "I may not know much, but I feel a lot!"

129 Equable  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:55:58am

Obama 08 - They Bought It!

130 addison  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:56:30am

re: #124 BFSkinner

Sorry.

I was the one that reported the original goings on over at DK in the first place.

I am on my notebook so the ability to shift/quote is not that easy to do, so I apologize for having yall think I'd say that trash.

Forgive my minus rating thingamajig then. Didn't realize it was a quote.

131 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:56:36am

re: #86 conservativeChick

Wait who said this now? Kos or the Muslims because its getting harder for me to tell each other apart.

Koslim?

132 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:57:44am

Comments are open at Huffpo:

breakfast

I am so sick of politicians elected to represent the people of the United States groveling at the feet of what are apparently their Israeli masters.

I can not, for the life of me, understand why we must practice fealty to and unconditional support of a country with hundreds of nukes, a robust economy, and a superb defense force.


Posted 12:15 PM on 06/04/2008

New david87501

The idea of "Jewish state" and "democracy" do not seem mutually compatible.


Posted 12:41 PM on 06/04/2008

New nadoop

Yes - it pisses me off too. In fact, that's the only thing that can prevent me from supporting Obama in November. To give him the benefit of the doubt, I think he's just doing it for votes. But if not then I'm gonna go for Nader.


Posted 12:31 PM on 06/04/2008

New TruthNow101

I second that motion


Posted 12:42 PM on 06/04/2008

133 Eowyn2  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:58:20am

re: #128 Ceemack

Every time I read a DK post on Israel, and the accompanying comments, it seems to highlight the same points of ignorance: that there once was a nation of "Palestine", that the "Palestinians" are one people, and that Jews simply came in and displaced them all. That said "Palestine" consisted of twice the size of Israel.

It underscores the entire worldview--and fundamental flaw--of the modern Left: "I may not know much, but I feel a lot!"

134 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:58:48am

re: #126 VegasRick

I told my wife that for the first time in my life I was going to put a bumper sticker on my car if obambi wins "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for the asshole". I like yours better. "Nope". That works.

I just did a quick image search, and I've been soundly beaten:

http://lawofreason.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-oba ma-we-should-have-seen-him.html

http://varenius2.blogspot.com/

I'd like a shirt with the "Hype" image...

135 Eowyn2  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:59:24am

re: #129 Equable

Obama 08 - They Bought It!

sight unseen, without looking at the price tag.

136 Kobyashi Maru  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:00:04am

I don't get it. Obama's middle east policy squares with AIPAC's which puts him in what I call the "Not one square inch" from Brooklyn crowd. He is either an apostate as the son of a Muslim, who cannot be trusted under any circumstances, as if elected he will wear a Kaffiyeh at the inaugural, or he is someone who has busted his a** for everything he has in this world and has a left of center point of view.

McCain on the other hand has a track record of flip flopping, on everything from the unconstitutional campaign finance reform, to immigration, to the Keating Five to agents of intolerance who now are his preachers (by the way where exactly does he go to church)?

I'm sure I'll get dissed a a troll, but I tell ya, I think I need to find a site where people go who:

Respect the constitution, and all amendments, 1st, 2d and 4th especially.
Spend wisely.
tax wisely.
Confront the entitlement state especially social security.
Even if "climate change" is wrong, we need to get off oil (and I live in Florida, and no don't wreck our beaches like Galveston and destroy the tourist income) build nuclear and conserve.
Support Israel, but not as a member of the Herut Party. Not like James baker or henry Kissinger do/did either...
Confront Muslim strongmen like our buddy Mubarak.

Where is the center of gravity?

137 ishabibble  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:00:24am

re: #71 WriterMom

"I get why Hamas digs me."

Yes. That's it right there in a nutshell. Barry has gone from scary to nightmare.

138 Spiny Norman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:01:32am

re: #122 mickthemick

Check out #91. He was being sarcastic, but didn't tag the post.

Who was? Skinner or the Kos Kid?

I knew BFSkinner's #87 was a quote from DKos, if that's what you're getting at. I recognized this as the DKos comment format:

He did call for a two state resolution (0 / 0)
and Obama was also critical of the continued settlement building.
139 The Other Les  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:03:15am

Here we go.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

140 Spiritualized  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:03:34am
And why does Obama seem tp place all the blame for the killings of civilians in this conflict on Hamas? Most of the civilian killings in the Mideast has been the result of American and Israeli state terrorism.

Arab-Israeli Fatalities Rank 49th

In a different perspective, some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.

141 WrathofG-d  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:03:54am

re: #138 Spiny Norman

There has already been a Two-state solution to the Israel-Arab conflict. It resulted in the splitting of the British Mandate of Palestine into two states: Israel & The Hasimite Kingdom of Trans-Jordan (now just called Jordan).

The 2-state solution has failed to bring peace.

142 Equable  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:05:22am

Liberals are like Sybil, plain and simple. What's borderline tragic, is despite railing against all of those cute labels they like to put on those who have the unmitigated temerity to dare disagree with them they adhere to the mindset they claim to despise - and with much vigor! Someone here once said something along the lines of:

"I can act like a bigot because I am not a bigot."

Insanity.

Equable Jr, who is seven years old and goes to a gifted school has a teacher that I have issues with. I told my son point blank that if any of his instructors "teach" about Islam, he is to get up - leave the class and call me so I can come pick him up. She didn't like it when he followed my instructions.

When I informed her that if she is going to be teaching about that cult, she could at least be honest about it and teach the children about what a brutal cult it actually is, she practically threw a fit and accused me of being narrow-minded. I told her that this was a compliment of the highest order and had my son removed from her class.

143 Spiny Norman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:05:58am

re: #128 Ceemack

Every time I read a DK post on Israel, and the accompanying comments, it seems to highlight the same points of ignorance: that there once was a nation of "Palestine", that the "Palestinians" are one people, and that Jews simply came in and displaced them all.

It underscores the entire worldview--and fundamental flaw--of the modern Left: "I may not know much, but I feel a lot!"

It is willful ignorance and it gives them an outlet for the anti-Semitism they are forced to keep bottled up.

144 mickthemick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:06:11am

re: #138 Spiny Norman

capiche. ;)

145 Kobyashi Maru  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:06:50am

it's capese...

147 Spiny Norman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:08:06am

re: #141 WrathofG-d

There has already been a Two-state solution to the Israel-Arab conflict. It resulted in the splitting of the British Mandate of Palestine into two states: Israel & The Hasimite Kingdom of Trans-Jordan (now just called Jordan).

The 2-state solution has failed to bring peace.

I know. I quoted the Kos Kid's comment to show why I knew #87 was a Kos quote. This part: (0/0)

148 mickthemick  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:08:09am

re: #124 BFSkinner

No worries! I apologize to you for thinking you were serious with that post! In my defense, I thought you were serious because there weren't quote marks or tags. Again, I am sorry for thinking those were your opinions. :)

149 Endangered in MASS  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:09:41am

re: #33 Occasional Reader

Irregardless, at the end of the day, it was super!

150 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:10:03am
151 ladycatnip  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:11:17am

Anyone else notice how many of the head shots of Obama are with the cameras looking up at his face? Excluding, of course, the messianic shots with the halo.

152 Maine's Michael  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:11:42am

Caroline Glick says Wright converted him (Obama) to Christianity.

She has obviously analyzed his background and come to the conclusion he was something other than Christian before Wright converted him.

153 WrathofG-d  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:13:00am

The truth is that if what the LLL & Kos believed about "palestine" were true, they might have an acceptable argument.

The major flaw however is that their entire argument is based on false assumptions.

It is never a discussion with a Pro-PLO supporter but instead a regurgitation of talking-points and bumpersticker logic.

OT:

I am amused by the kos site / lgf site dynamic.
Kos: Radical Leftist Blog run by ex-US soldier who was once a Republican.
LGF: Conservative Blog run by ex-Musician who was once a Liberal.
-perfect opposites.

154 WrathofG-d  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:15:26am

re: #147 Spiny Norman

oh.

Well its a good response next time somone advocates the so called "two-state solution" (which is actually a 3 state solution).

I'd advocate a 2-state solution. Jews to live in Israel, and Arabs to live in Jordan.

155 WrathofG-d  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:16:47am
156 Maine's Michael  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:21:42am

re: #105 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It a nice little reception room with seltzers where you wait before you get called into to see the Zionist overlords

Off of the lobby, there are also smaller areas where you can get an orthodontic examination, a pastrami sandwich on rye, and an instant debate on whether plastic versus paper is better for the Jews.

157 miguelj  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:22:48am

and say we all: insh'allah

158 Athos  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:26:27am

re: #141 WrathofG-d

That's because, as far as the Arabs are concerned, their position has not changed since 1947 - only an Arab state is acceptable.

159 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:45:28am

Obama had half a point---our dependence on oil is dangerous because the people who get the petrodollars are dangerous. And so, we need to move to various forms of alternate energy.

Why not a whole point? Because he didn't specifically mention civilian nuclear energy, and there is really no way we can run a fleet of electric cars without increased electricity generation, and assuming we can get past our phobia about disposing nuclear waste miles deep in a salt barren, that is the most economical way to get the extra electricity.

160 green helmet guy  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:51:34am

This ought to sum it all up:

Those Pesky JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!

161 Annar  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 10:52:57am

re: #152 Maine's Michael

Caroline Glick says Wright converted him (Obama) to Christianity.

She has obviously analyzed his background and come to the conclusion he was something other than Christian before Wright converted him.

I posted the following at the end of a previous thread so not may saw it. Pardon the repetition for those that have.
-------------------
In practice shari'a law the fact that the father is a Muslim makes the children automatically Muslims. Changing his religion thus makes Obambi an apostate. Does this get him the death penalty? Robert Spencer writes:

So is Obama under a death sentence? Probably not. As far as I know Obama has never explained when he left Islam and became a Christian. This is a crucial point, for according to Islamic law an apostate male is not to be put to death if he has not reached puberty (cf. 'Umdat al-Salik o8.2; Hidayah vol. II p. 246). Some, however, hold that he should be imprisoned until he is of age and then "invited" to accept Islam, but officially the death penalty for youthful apostates is ruled out.

There seems to be no record of Obama having renounced Islam as a child. In fact he claims to have found Christ with the lunatic Wright when he was surely an adult. So it would seem he changed his religion as an adult and any real traditionalist Muslim would arrive at the conclusion that the full blown punishment applies in his case.

He might want to reconsider going to Teheran to visit wait for the Mahdi Mahdi and negotiate with AhmanInJihad.

162 stuiec  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:00:21am

re: #83 Opinionated

Obama went so overboard in lying of his support for Israel.

Even going so far as to promise a policy of supporting an undivided Jerusalem.

Is there a human being with a functioning brain anywhere who would believe that promise from Obama.

If he lied about Jerusalem, then he lied about everything.

Lies you can believe in.

I believe him: I believe that he supports an undivided Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Except that I believe that in his vision, Israel is no longer a Jewish state, but a "secular democracy" that will be forced to absorb millions of Palestinian "refugees" under a "right of return."

And that he won't have any problem guaranteeing Israel's security under those conditions -- much as he would guarantee the security of any other Islamic (or soon-to-be-Islamic) country.

163 jorline  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:04:27am

re: #160 green helmet guy

This ought to sum it all up:

Those Pesky JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOS!

That's Juice...lol

164 markie  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:20:11am

When are people going to stop jumping on a politician's every word and wait for something substantial? I find it hypocritical at best and psychotic at worst to believe one statement while disbelieving another with absolutely no reasoning applied in either case. It's absurd and scares me to death. These people aren't just screwing up your fast food orders, they're running cities, building big things, and worst of all making decisions that impact your life.

They need help and they need it now, preferably in a secure treatment facility.

165 winston06  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:21:14am

Daily Kos=Nazis of the left

166 Sharmuta  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:22:04am

re: #165 winston06

Daily Kos=Nazis of the left

The nazis ARE the left!

167 Sharmuta  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:23:23am

nazis are leftists- they're national SOCIALISTS. Nothing right wing about them unless you're comparing them to flat out commies.

168 madisonsfriend  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:24:13am

As a member of the ZOG , KOS is so behind times- we are way beyond the lobby now- we are the Zionist Ballroom! And while I never got my Zionist check, I did get my Zionist t-shirt this week at the Dc Israel celebration.

And by the way, F U Kos! Israel as the Jewish state is here to stay and so are the Jews.

169 Tazzerman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:34:24am

In reality can someone please explain to me, in small words, exactly what changes POTUS can really make in regards to Israel, the palis and the muslim world in general, aside from the 'sea change' George Bush has already started in the mideast?

Ohlmert is already in the process of giving away the store but beyond that, what can really be done by the president?

Withhold foriegn aid? To what end? To force Israel into giving up MORE land? That's already being done. To stop the settlements? Already being done. To loosen the many checkpoints both in the west bank and the general blockace on Gaza? Ok.

I'm at a loss to see where there is any substantial change to be made on the Israeli side of things given the fact that Israel is facing multiple enemies, all with the same intent, the total and complete destruction of Israel and the eradication of the Jewish 'entity'..

All a president can do is help facilitate and/or speed up one of two inevitable outcomes. Either Israel exists or it doesn't.

Comrade Obama really has little say over either outcome regardless of who's ass he decides to kiss.

170 WrathofG-d  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 11:48:54am

re: #169 Tazzerman

The Left (and most of the actual Government Right) don't see that Olmert is, as you put it, "giving away the shop". Despite the return of most of post-1967 being the central policy of most Israeli leaders, the World Leaders and the individuals mentioned above still fail to see/accept this reality. They stick to the Oslo principles (that have since been prooven failures and worse false many times over) and emphsize that house building on disupted land, and not the murder of innocent Israeli civilians is the central barrier to an extensive peace in the region.

Thus it is the belief of the Left, and the actual elected Right that if Israel would just give the Phakestinians post-1967 Israeli land, the Phakestinians would be appeased, give up violence, start bulding a productive society, and this in turn would also cause the rest of the Arab/Muslim world just to flip over immediately and love the United States.

Central to this belief, is the necessity of ignoring the fact that this "solution" has been tried numerous times and failed miserably. The latest example would be the full ethnic cleansing of Jews from Gaza, and the Northern West Bank, and Amona. In addition, the Left, Elected Right, and World leaders willing accept the Phakestinian narrative on the history of the region and ignore the realities on the ground.

Simply put, we are all stuck on the failed policies of Oslo.

171 J.S.  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 12:36:04pm

re: #169 Tazzerman

I think you're correct if you're saying that no President of the United States has the power to dictate to Palestinians that they will not elect HAMAS or that they will henceforth cease and desist from engaging in all terrorist activities. Yet, one hears this over and over again -- Bush, Obama, Hillary -- they all talk about making "demands" that "da violence", the terrorism, stop. It's laughable. Who do they think they are? they think that by uttering a "demand" -- bingo! -- magically the Arabs will be rendered "pacifists?" It's insane. And, it's not going to happen. No one has a plan in place as to how to go about changing militant terrorists with the fanatic intention of murdering Israelis into a "peace partner." Other than, maybe, Obama's assertion that he's gonna find the peaceful Palestinians...(but, what he doesn't say, is just how is he gonna change them into accepting the existence of the State of Israel. The only ones who can do this is the Palestinians themselves -- not dictates from Washington, the State Dept., the UN, Europe, etc..) All these extrinsic (outsider) demands are doomed to fail. As Baruch Spinoza said: “Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice.”

172 yochanan  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 12:53:28pm

they all give good speechs but when the shit hits the fan what will the do? hill's hubby did not move the american embassy to Jerusalem in his 8 years. and we can be sure by looking at obama friends he will not do a hell of a lot eather and it will be Israel that pays the price for the defeat in iraq that obama wants so much not main street america.

173 Spiny Norman  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:26:41pm

re: #155 WrathofG-d

Hey Kossaks: Discuss This: Israel to lead the way in solar energy production and technology.

Cognitive dissonance at that high a level could be quite dangerous: Kosling heads would a'splode and innocent bystanders might get hit by flying moonbat bits.

174 LeonidasOfSparta  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:35:11pm

Hussein LIED! Moonbats CRIED

175 LeonidasOfSparta  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:39:39pm

re: #152 Maine's Michael

indeed.


(And since you can never REALLLLLLLLLY leave Islam without being beheaded or impaled....gives one pause....)

SLEEPER MOLE

(just sayin')

176 offendi  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 1:44:29pm

Lots of wonderful comments here. But basically the thing to understand about Israel is that Israel's leaders with the exception of Olmert who is tied to Bush's coat-tails, recognize he is now in effect a lame duck. There is no confidence in, and much suspicion of, Barack Obama, and an acknowledgment of his weakness. He cannot afford to alienate American Jews before his election, so Israelis feel they can do what they want before January, 2009 if he is the candidate.

Israel will rely less on America in this time, and will do what they feel they must for their national security. Wallah Ahmadinejad and Meshaal you will have some problems.

177 funkyfantom  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:03:38pm

re: #162 stuiec

I believe him: I believe that he supports an undivided Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Except that I believe that in his vision, Israel is no longer a Jewish state, but a "secular democracy" that will be forced to absorb millions of Palestinian "refugees" under a "right of return."

And that he won't have any problem guaranteeing Israel's security under those conditions -- much as he would guarantee the security of any other Islamic (or soon-to-be-Islamic) country.

Obama in an interview criticized the existence of Israel's security fence, "blaming" it on the Bush administration.

So he used the word "blame" describing the construction of a barrier that prevents Palestinian terrorists from reducing Jewish children to small pieces of bloody flesh? I would think such a thing would merit "credit" not blame ( in reality the Bush administration had little to do with it).

178 grumpy old codger  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:21:09pm

re: #66 Ward Cleaver
Cindy as Sec. of Defense
Ramsay Clark to the Supreme Court
Ayers as FBI director
Wright as the clergy to the congress

The possibilities are endless!

179 Steffan  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 9:54:04pm

I think Kos ought to change the flag on his masthead.

Considering the rank bullshit that the Koslings utter (I include Keith Olbermann in this), I think this flag would work well for them.

It would certainly match their political philosophy, and their charming habit of staging near-riots so that their delicate ears won't be sullied by conservative guest speakers (something the SA was very good at, btw).


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